Millie Bright bows out and WSL contenders hold firm – Women’s Football Weekly

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:30to seal the points against Spurs and only Manchester United made their mark on the Champions League in a tough start to the competition for the English teams. We'll discuss all of that, plus we'll take your questions and that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly.

0:48What a panel we have today. Susie Rack, how are you? How's your week been? Good. Tiring, but good. Robin Cowan how are you doing I am absolutely loving your dressing gown slash snuggle thing it looks amazing oh yeah no it's just a furry inside hoodie which yeah I've cracked out because it's autumn and yes apart from a cold all very very good thank you excellent yeah they're doing the rounds at the moment isn't it I listened back to some of the pod from last week and I thought oh I don't sound very well I hope I sound a little bit better this week how are you Tom Gary All fine here, thank you. I walked the dog early this morning and another dog owner said that their dog had a cold.

1:30So maybe there really is going around everywhere. Wow. Oh my God, I didn't know dog. Is that really naive and ignorant of me to not know that dogs get colds? I'm not sure, but maybe listeners can educate us on that with an email. But I was surprised. Has Sonic ever had a cold, Susie? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And he sneezes all the time. But it's usually sneezing when he's happy. and I'm impressed with Tom's dog getting up for an early morning walk because I got a dog thinking I'd be out in the mornings, up bright and early, getting some exercise in and Sonic's lazier than me and won't get out of bed until like 10.

2:05He's like the opposite of Sonic the Hedgehog. The opposite of his namesake. Pretty much. That's amazing. Right, let's kick off, shall we, with Millie Bright's retirement announcement. I mean, many of us wondered for a little while whether or not she might make this decision after ruling herself out of the European Championships in the summer, saying that she wouldn't be able to give 100 % mentally or physically. She did have successful knee surgery over the summer, started counselling sessions as well, and had said that the decision to withdraw was by far the best decision she'd ever made. Of course, today, Serena Viegman names her first Lionesses squad since lifting the 2025 title.

2:44So the timing of the announcement makes sense. 88 caps she won, started every single game as England won their first major women's trophy at Euro 2022. She captained them as well at the World Cup final a year later, which they lost to Spain. This is what she had to say. I've been weighing this up for a long time. It's one of those decisions no one can make for you. It's a feeling and I'm at peace with it. Having had the summer to reflect, fix my knee and get my head straight, really put things into perspective. As you get older, your priorities change and I've been craving family time, time with friends and time for myself.

3:18This is what Serena Vigman had to say. Millie will forever be an England legend for what she's given to her country. And I could never have enough words to praise her impact during my time. Susie, we kind of semi expected this, but what did you feel when you heard the announcement yesterday? I mean, it's sad. It's obviously sad to see the end of an era, the end of someone's England tenure, who's been such a good servant to the team, obviously captain the World Cup, won the Euros, has been a big part of the squad 2017, 2019, etc. So like, you know, obviously, sad to some go. But I also feel like this is a good time for decisions like this in terms of like, we've got a year and a half, almost two years out till the World Cup.

4:05And, you know, if you're going to go going at a time where there's an opportunity to sort of experiment a little bit with who is going to kind of step into the breach, I think is not a bad thing. You've got Alex Greenwood, you've got Leah Williamson, you've got Mayor Letizia. Katie Reid is obviously performing well at Arsenal, very young. But, you know, it'd be quite good to see her kind of come into the environment at some point. Lotto Aubamoy, they've got like options at the back there. So it's not like leaving England short or anything at this moment in time. And, you know, obviously anyone who is thinking that it will be better for their mental and physical health should be supported in those decisions as well.

4:47I think and I think it's um it's nice to see like how honest she's been about that both before the Euros and now and honest isn't the right word because that sort of like implies that people are being secretive if they hide that stuff but you get what I mean it's sort of nice to her being so open about about that and uh and you know kind of highlighting that mental toll in particular and also the physical toll that international and club football can take and we've seen you know other players make similar decisions but yeah clearly the right move for her at the right time I suppose when you've when you've had that winning feeling with your national team and then you've had the feeling of watching your national team without you there winning you've kind of done both sides of the coin Robin so she knows what the what the feeling is and whether she wants it enough again yeah maybe she felt like well my work here is done because they went in the summer and they and they did it without me um I'm sure it was a really difficult decision and especially to miss out on the summer but I just echo what what Susie said I think she's actually quite brave to talk so openly about you know her struggles but her legacy is is sealed isn't it you know I think particularly I mean the Euros yes but I remember that World Cup she had barely played had she going into that World Cup and I remember she had slightly she looked slightly rusty in the first game but then after that she was incredible I know England obviously ended up losing in the final but I just thought that is a really selfless quality player who kind of was fine going in cold basically and performing to that level so yeah and I think she's as I say her legacy is sealed on and off the pitch in my opinion 88 caps Tom where does Does she rank in terms of important figures in the Lionesses past, if you like?

6:38Past it is now. That seems sad to say. She's left an indelible mark on the Lionesses because she is now one of only two footballers to have captained England in a World Cup final. The other being Bobby Moore, of course. And that's something that will be forevermore in the history books of English football and deserves immense respect. And obviously, as Susie and Robin have said, you know, starting all six games in that Euros win just cements your place forever in history regardless. I actually think she played her best football for England at Euro 2017 when she was just an absolute rock in that team that got to the semifinals.

7:15I also thought she was excellent at the 2019 World Cup, of course, got sent off in the semifinal. But I don't think that was really why England lost that semifinal to the USA. So that was another tournament where she really excelled. I just wonder whether there's a feeling that perhaps she might not have been in the squad today it'd be interesting to see what Serena Wigman says over the course of the day and perhaps the timing was just quite right for everybody because if you're looking to the 2027 World Cup which is what Wigman will be doing now I don't think Bright would have been in the side, it's not impossible to see she could have been in the side but she'd be nearly 35 at that final in 2027 and I think well done to a legendary England player for a great career and now the kind of Wiegmann machine rolls on and evolves can I just say one other thing though we're getting a bit of a knack for here in England is that we're not really doing the farewell games for some of these legends of the 2022 winning team in the way the Americans do quite well where they have this farewell international the player gets substituted off after 80 minutes to a standing ovation and gets their moment of huge huge applause and the list now is growing of players who haven't had that opportunity.

8:28Millie Bright, Rachel Daly, all for very different reasons, of course, but Daly and Bright and Ellen White, Jill Scott, Steph Horton. I could go on a little bit and I suppose what I want to say now, let's manifest this. Eventually, when the horrible day comes that Lucy Bronze decides to hang up her England boots, can we just make sure that it happens with a planned final match where she is given all of the celebrations that some other countries have paid to their legendary figures. That, to me, sounds like a major testimonial, like a mega testimonial. What do you think? Like a kind of group? I know that means that every individual, but I mean, there's too many testimonials to have, I feel.

9:10I think that's a great idea. It could be like a big charity game because you've got Frank Kirby as well, Mary Earps. Yeah. That's almost an entire 11, isn't it? Well, there we go. I will take my royalties for my incredible idea, please. Anyone from the FA is listening. By the way, we have to shout out that Arnold Clarke Cup joint golden winning boot because the question has always been, is she a defender or a striker? Dick Millie Bright up front. And of course, you know, she won that alongside Alexia Puteas. goodness knows how many times Ballon d 'Or winner now I've actually lost count. So kudos to Millie for not only being an incredible defender but also a brilliant striker as well.

10:01It is Lioness' squad announcement day. Serena Viegman naming her first squad since winning the Euros. Friendlies against Brazil and Australia upcoming. Few injury problems. Leah Williamson and Lauren Hemp both out. Lucy Bronze did make her first appearance of the season from the bench this weekend for Chelsea. Grace Clinton, though, was missing with a knock. So it's going to be really interesting to see what that squad is going to look like. However, we won't be able to tell you until next week and dissect it because we're recording the pod in the morning. So you will know as you listen to this, no doubt.

10:37Let us know what you think of the squad. Women's Football Weekly at theguardian.com. I like that you almost called this the cod. The cod? Do you know what I did? Oh my God, I so did. We're always a bit fishy. Right, let's look back at the weekend's action in the Barclays WSL, shall we? Millie Bright was in action at King's Meadow for Chelsea. We'll talk about that in a minute, but let's head to Anfield first of all. Liverpool hosting Manchester City, contrasting fortunes for both these two sides this season. It's not been a happy hunting ground, Anfield, for Liverpool. Their 2-1 defeat to Manchester City on Sunday was their seventh loss in eight appearances at the club's main stadium.

11:23It does make you wonder whether somebody is going to go, I think there's a problem here. Maybe let's not do this. I don't know what it is. It's fascinating, isn't it? Not been the best start to the season for the club overall. I mean, this was their fifth straight defeat in the league, but they did prove difficult to break down. Took the lead through Cornelia Capoc. What did you make of their overall performance, Susie? How does Gareth Taylor use this three-week break from league action to get them back on an even keel again? I thought it was a decent performance. They're under-resourced. Their squad isn't really big enough.

11:58like it's not strong enough to last and maintain an intensity against City across 90 minutes but they actually did and didn't play that badly the late off side extremely frustrating but yeah no I thought it was a solid performance and you know if they'd taken something from the game you know I think it would have been well deserved but at the same time City are City so you know you're not like Liverpool aren't going to be taking points off the top four given you know kind of where they're at and where the squad is at and the commitment of the club and stuff but yeah like I've you know I've kind of wondered about Gareth Taylor's style of football and the personnel that he's got available and whether you know he's being too rigid in that but yeah you know you often have to as a manager adapt to the personnel at your disposal and find a way that is going to maximize the qualities of of those individuals in the best collective way sometimes over kind of taking your ideal and like then trying to get those players to play that way until you've got a team built for that it's really really difficult to do but yeah I thought this was a decent performance for them.

13:12They look frustrated Manchester City at times didn't they and certainly until Iman Benet's equaliser on the score sheet again Robin how did they find a way to unlock Liverpool's stubborn back line? And were you impressed that they kept patient? Yeah, no, I've been really impressed with Manchester City this season. They're looking quite relentless. It's a really good watch and they're topping all the attacking stats in the WSL, chances created, XG. So they're really free-flowing and actually even though they were slightly frustrated, they kept on going. You know, I don't think it was great goalkeeping from the Liverpool keeper for the first goal.

13:50And then, yeah, Fugino started really well. And as you say, it was it was kind of fine margins. Bonner was like just a couple of inches offside, wasn't she? But I agree with Susie. Like, I'm just not sure if Gareth Taylor's the right fit in terms of coming from Manchester City, where he had quality players and his set style of play. Liverpool just don't have the depth at all. And whether he will have to change something. I don't think it's all his fault. I think Susie alluded to that. Liverpool, I feel like, get away with a lot of, they're not really scrutinised when you look at the men's team.

14:26They've got a Premier League winning team there and the women's team, it should be a lot, lot better, in my opinion. Dot, dot, dot. Tom, Robin said there for Gino, played well, scored the late goal. And actually, that's the second week in a row that they've had to score late to secure the three points. Penny for Gareth Taylor's thoughts in that moment when he thought he'd got a point against his former side. He was quite frustrated, but I think I watched a slightly different game to most people who watch this match. I don't think Liverpool deserved a draw. The tone of the post-match interviews was almost like that Liverpool had been quite unlucky, nearly got the draw.

15:05They had two efforts at goal, on or off target, in the whole match. They scored a wonderful goal for Kapoc. It was really good football. And then they had the free kick from Kerry Holland in stoppage time. That was it. And they really struggled to create chances. And if what we're aspiring to here is just to simply make things a bit tricky for Man City when you're at home at Anfield, then how low has the bar fallen? They have an improvement. So I understand why the tone is one of kind of trying to keep positive from Liverpool. And, you know, their season won't be judged necessarily on these games against Manchester City, who are really good, by the way.

15:40And I do think will run Chelsea really close for the title. But Lippon have got a real problem. The strikers are not scoring goals. They're not really getting chances. The confidence looks bereft from really talented players like NDB. And no, he does need time. He was only brought in in August, very, very late in pre-season. He really needs more time. And he alluded to that post-game. But there, at some point, will need to be a huge priority over a result rather than building this style. You can lose five in a row at the start, fine. Can't lose 10, can't lose 15 So at some point the rot is going to have to stop To help them with the long term gains I understand where Tom's coming from But I also think that this isn't the game where you're judging Liverpool's attacking ability necessarily And the fact that you take two shots on target One of them is scored Against a team like Man City You're only going to get very, very few chances And it's about how you capitalise on those And one of the two, not bad potential chance for the second.

16:44Like, I think it was an incredibly good overall defensive performance and that's sort of what you need. Like, in the context of these two teams, of course, we should expect so much more from Liverpool generally, given the context of where they're at at the moment, this isn't the game that you would expect, like, a really, really strong attacking performance from. Yeah, well, I mean, look, they're going to be out without Marie Hobinger. Don't know how long for. She went down with a knee injury, not diagnosed yet, but likely to be for some time at least. Hopefully they can get her fit over the three weeks of the international period because they need their forward players to start scoring.

17:23As you say, I think she's only got the one assist so far this season, not been on the score sheet yet. It's going to be an interesting time for Liverpool, that is for sure. It's an interesting time for Arsenal, but Susie has breathed a sigh of relief because after the pressure mounting on them in recent weeks, following two draws and two defeats in all competitions. The 1-0 victory against Brighton was very welcome, wasn't it? Marissa Oleslager's own goal proving the difference. I mean, you had to get it through an own goal, Susie, didn't you? That just feels very Arsenal at the moment. And it felt like a must-win game, really.

17:56What did you make of the game overall? It was a must-win game. And, I mean, René Slager's basically said that, like it mattered more than performance. The three points was the most important thing in that moment. but it was a not great performance. It was pretty poor. It was so, so wasteful. I think I put some of the stats in my match report, but like Arsenal had 39 touches in the opposition box to Brighton's eight, and yet Brighton had more shots on target. Five to Arsenal's four. 39 touches in the opposition box and four shots on target. Now, like, that is like so wasteful. and it wasn't even like they got amazing like chances from that they're all amazing openings they just weren't finding the space like it's one point where I can't remember who it was someone had the ball on the edge of the box and you were like create space like shift make space or find someone out wide or something and they just hit it straight at a like a pack of bodies like it was never going to get anywhere near the goal and poor decision making in that final third is really really troubling at the moment and I really really thought this game was going to go the same way as the Arsenal-Aston Villa game where during that game I very much felt that Villa were going to score late on that the longer the game went on with the margin still at one goal the more confident Villa got and went for it and Arsenal defensively aren't looking amazing at the moment defensively forward wise generally um and you know like that Aston Villa goal was absolutely inevitable and I felt like it was going that way against Brighton and it easily could have done Van Domsler had a a really good game which was nice to see because she's obviously gotten a lot of flack for some like shaky performances and I don't think she was perfect in this game either like there was a couple of things that she'd have perhaps held on to that she you know had to kind of then regather and things like that but overall like there was a fantastic save in the second half like outstretched arm quite reflexy that was that was great Arsenal sort of need their luck to shift a little bit but they also need to like work out what the hell was going wrong in the final third because they just cannot hit a barn door at the moment a go-go gadget arm moment rather than reflexy just just maybe taking people back to the 80s, if you remember the 80s and 90s.

20:23There'll be lots of people going, who the hell is Inspector Gadget? Do-do-do-do-do. It was brilliant. Musical interludes again, fire starter. Give me a little bit of an overview, Robin, from how you're seeing it from a commentator's point of view. Where are their problems stemming from at the minute, Arsenal? It's really hard to say, but I think it's, yeah, it's in the attack, I think, because as Susie said, this so could have been the ending that they had against Aston Villa, but Brighton obviously couldn't get it over the line. It's really weird because they did their opening game against London City Lionesses, and once they scored, the floodgates opened, whereas this one, I mean, we had a stat fed to us that after the own goal, they didn't have an attempt after that in the first half.

21:08So I don't know what's going on, really. I thought the subs kind of injected quite a lot of energy. Cooney crossed a few dribbles and kind of, you know, trying to make things happen. Black Stinius was making good runs but then couldn't finish. So kind of it seems like all the tools are there. They're just not quite working yet. And I do think I was actually very impressed with Brighton. I thought they were very good, you know, considering they couldn't play the two Arsenal loanees as well. So they were really light. And Fran Kirby is still absolutely class. She was playing those intricate balls in behind and threading them through, linking up with Seike.

21:46You know, she still she still got it. Frank Kirby, I think. Yeah, she was just a joy to watch again. One of those players that's never going to lose it, though, because she's intelligent. I can only talk about this from like a netball point of view. Right. Because I don't play football. Nobody needs to see me play football. But from a netball point of view, there are certain players. They don't have to move around the court. They just know how to position. They're so intelligent. They see the game plotting out in front of them that you kind of almost look at them and think, oh, yeah, OK, I can play against this player.

22:19I've got, you know, a good level of fitness and they just do you on every single board. And Frank Kirby's just like that. And so I think that she can go on that long for that reason. Tom, what did you make of Brighton? It feels like their defensive structure actually is one of their biggest areas of progress this season and their building. And Susie mentioned Van Domsala, but actually I feel as if Chiamaka Nadozi was pretty decent as well. Yeah, I've been relatively impressed with them all through the opening games of the season, really. I don't think they've had any particularly outstanding performances, nor any particularly bad performances either.

22:59They've just reached a level now where they're a good side, not easy to beat. And they did, I think, recruit quite well in the summer. So this was an okay performance. I think they'll be even wondering if they maybe should have nicked a point, maybe. But you're not remotely worried about them, are we? Like there are other teams in the league where we look at them and we think, oh, there's a few little problems there. Or where are they going to get the next win, et cetera, et cetera. I think you just look at Brighton, you think they're going to be a good side for the season. And as for Arsenal, I just keep thinking back about what a big November they've got.

23:31They've got Chelsea, Bayern Munich away, a North London derby away and Real Madrid. Last November really made them. They turned their season around last November and were flawless. And this November will make or break how the season is perceived, I think. Yeah, I agree. Right, that's it for part one. In part two, we'll continue to look back at the weekend's action.

24:03Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. Right, Chelsea once again dominated the stats in their 1-0 win over Tottenham Hotspur, but again struggled to put their opportunities to bed. Seems very similar to Arsenal at the moment. 27 shots they created, just four of those were on target. How much of a worry should this be for Sonia Bonpastor, Tom? It's been a bit of a running theme, hasn't it, this season? Not a worry as long as you keep on winning. And that's what they're doing. Have we seen them get out of third gear yet? Maybe fourth gear? Probably not, really. But still top of the league.

24:40I think we should give a shout out to Kira Walsh for yet another good finish. She's sort of charging towards being their top goal scorer contender and looks really at home now in this Chelsea team, by the way, after a period of settling in. Not worried. I'd be worried if they were sort of slipping up dropping points. But do they look like they're going to win the Champions League on this form? No, but there's time for that to improve. Do they look like they're going to carry on winning games by a goal and probably winning the league? Yes. How do they keep doing this? It's just every year. Robin just went into a meltdown in her office.

25:20it's just you know Faye I'm worried about AI being replaced by AI as a commentator and with these podcasts literally with Chelsea you just have to there's so much material from all of us just saying they get the job done they win and it's just like we don't need to be here do we for this Chelsea chat it's just it's it's incredible I mean it's no fluke is it we've got to give them credit they've they've been doing this for years they weren't great at periods last season you know and they stormed the league. I think there is an issue with people not challenging them. And Tom was saying he thinks Manchester City could be close.

25:52But this is just what they do. As I say, this is not a fluky result. It just happens. And by the way, Kira Walsh is now starting to get a trademark finish on that edge of the box. She's someone who previously basically never scored a goal. My favourite thing about that, by the way, was Erin Cuthbert was already celebrating before it hit the net. I saw she was raising her arms. I love that. I love that when that happens. That's when you have true belief in your teammates. And by the way, I think we need to start a Guardian Women's Football Weekly think tank because we're just providing ideas to the FA, to an events company, now to AI companies left, right and centre.

26:34Seven changes again, though, Susie. It doesn't really help with team cohesion, despite, you know, having a cheerleader like Erin Cuthbert on the side, knowing that you're going to score a banger. we talked a lot at the beginning of the season about how she's going to manage looking after all of these players but it's not just egos it's it's actual cohesion on the pitch that that could start to be a problem if they're not playing regular minutes with each other yeah seven changes from the champions league game but only two from the WSL game so like I get it right like you're playing three games a week you have to rotate your squad a bit of the games you would like to think that even with a weakened squad they complete 20 I mean that was not not the case but you know you've got to try you've got to find a way to rotate I think that team cohesion is growing I thought Liz Thompson looked like that she was coming to sort of sharpness in a Chelsea shirt and I think it will get there and stepping aside from being a journalist for a moment like there is nothing more frustrating than a Chelsea team that isn't playing well but is still winning.

27:44And I was speaking to a Chelsea fan who was basically saying, oh, God, we're playing so badly, the performance is so rubbish. I was like, I would rather you were, like, cleaning up and playing brilliant and having incredible performances. This is what is annoying. So soak it in, like, enjoy it. Like, I don't think it's, you know, obviously it's a problem. I agree with Tom, you know, it's not necessarily the football that is going to win you a Champions League, but they're going to power to the league if they can maintain this kind of mentality, the never give up. I don't know what it is, what the ingredient is that keeps them able to do this, but good to watch, good fun to watch.

28:26If you can find that and bottle it up, that will also bring us more investment for sure. Another idea for the pod. Martin Ho seems to have bottled something up at the Tottenham Hotspur training ground because I mean his side fourth in the table they were third but this was a tricky game to go into but he was really proud of his side's resilience dealing with waves of Chelsea attacks he said when you can put in defensive performances like that it sets you up for success moving forward if you get the foundation right you become hard to beat and actually you know they are becoming hard to beat Tom which is something we've not seen from them for a very long time time.

29:03How impressed were you with their defensive performance and overall performance, really? That's the big transformation, actually, is at the back, because last season they had the joint second highest number of goals conceded in the WSL. And this year they've already had three clean sheets in the league. And obviously, they've just conceded the one against Chelsea. So far, so good, really, for Tottenham. But I think Tottenham fans won't get too carried away. They've kind of been here before. They had a really good start under Robert Villaharm. a couple of years ago. They had a very good start under Ryan Skinner three years ago and then things kind of tapered off over the winter.

29:36What I hear from behind the scenes around Martin Ho is he's gone down very well with the players, with his methods. He seems to be a little bit of a firmer hand, a bit more fierce than Robert Villahal. He's certainly a bit more intense and angry at times, kind of driving those standards a little bit. He was somebody they identified apparently because of his real sort of passion and intensity and obsession with the job. And that's kind of coming through on the training ground. They shortlisted around 30 candidates and interviewed seven. So, you know, done quite well to end up as a standout person from that kind of process.