The Mary Earps autobiography causes a stir – Women’s Football Weekly

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:14Hello, I'm Faye Carruthers and welcome to the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. And we've needed to be daily, haven't we, to keep up with the row that's been dominating the news agenda. Mary Earps' new book All In has hit the headlines for going not quite all in on Hannah Hampton and Serena Vigman. We'll see how that's gone down and what happens next. Elsewhere, the Barclays WSL returned from the international break with the top five all winning and a six-goal fun fest between Aston Villa and Everton. We'll discuss all that, plus we'll take your questions. And that's today's Guardian Women's Football Weekly.

0:48What a panel we have today. Susie Rack, good morning. Good morning. How are you? How was your break? In inverted commas. Good. Worked some of it. And then did a lot of half-term activities. So, yeah, not very restful. Did you do Laser Quest? No, but we did do pumpkin picking and bowling and climbing. So, you know, plenty of activities. Oh, I like it. I like it a lot. Laser Quest next time, please. And if you need another adult, you know, just ask. I'll do Laser Quest without the kids. Let's go on a weekday. Oh, yeah, let's do a Guardian Women's Football weekly Laser Quest. that right I'm up for it okay booked Emma Sanders how are you I think you might have had a little bit of a busy week very busy week I can't wait for the weekend I've got it booked off I've got some family coming to stay so I'm very excited but I might cancel them now and just go and do laser quest with you guys well that sounds fun I have to say you've definitely got into the the snowy winter vibe with the white fleece it's um it's giving me East 17 vibes which might be a bit old for many people listening to this right now but stay another day.

2:03Sophie Downey how are you? I'm good thank you I've also gone for the winter vibes I've moved over to the woolly hat season it's finally winter I think so I've made the plunge. And also dressed all in white you could also be part of East 17. Okay look there's only one place to start isn't there it's the topic that's dominated the news and the airwaves over the weekend on Friday night extracts from Mary Earps's new autobiography All In were published in The Guardian and to say that it got some pick up would be an understatement. Story was everywhere over the weekend. In her book she describes a breakdown in the relationship between herself and the goalkeeper that is now number one for England, Hannah Hampton, who was Mary Earps's backup previously.

2:50This is some of the quotes, the only negative each group reported back on was her behaviour was overwhelmingly considered disruptive and unreliable with the risk of being destructive, taking energy and time from coaches who needed to work with the rest of the team on set pieces, mentality and of course goalkeeping sessions. That's what she wrote about what happened in 2022 when they won the Euros and were at a Teddington base training. Obviously the Barclays WSL returned this weekend after the international break so I'm assuming Emma Sanders that it dominated the chat in the press boxes? Very much did very much did you know I was down in London on the Saturday I was doing Chelsea London City but by this time I already knew I was interviewing Mary on Sunday so it was kind of interesting to see the reaction to the extracts that were first published in The Guardian on the Friday night.

3:42Obviously my job as a BBC journalist is not to pass judgment not to make opinion so I I sort of had to kind of remind Mary of that on Sunday because I think, you know, it was an overwhelming experience seeing all the reaction. I think she already had interviews either pre-recorded or planned. And then naturally, when you see what's come out from fans and obviously from Sonia Bonpastor, who we were speaking to on the Saturday, that was obviously quite an explosive reaction in defence of Hannah Hampton and Serena Viegman. I do think, you know, it brings out the Cuban side. And I think that's the thing I kind of wanted to say is that, you know, her book is obviously her perspective.

4:18There'll be things naturally that people will completely disagree with. But I do think there's people at the heart of this story. And I think it was a hard interview for me to do, to be honest. Mary's clearly been affected by what's happened. Hannah clearly, no doubt, will have been affected by what's happened. You know, there was one line that Mary said to me, which struck me, which was that this isn't a drama. These are real people's lives and it has consequences. is and I am a little bit worried about how this saga unfolds you know how it might impact both both people but I think the good thing for Mary is that she was flying back to Paris she can go play for Paris Saint-Germain and maybe just take take herself out of the noise a little bit but yeah I just I just hope that that both players have got good support around them.

5:00Yeah that is the most important thing because it is not it's not pleasant being in the eye of a media storm you feel as if everybody's talking about you and and there's no escape from it at all so yes at least she can she can go to Paris and take herself out of the situation in in some ways what did you make of it also I at the end of the day I'm just really sad Mary Epps has had a brilliant career for England over the years the way that she kind of resurrected her career came back and became the best goalkeeper in the world for a number of years I do really think about the advice that she's getting.

5:38That's my big thing, because when you're looking at it with a comms hat on, which is my old career, you're going, how are you advising someone this badly in terms of the publication of it and the timing? And you could just look at the fact that England won the Euros and Serena Viegman and Hannah Hampton. Hannah Hampton is one of the stars of England's Euros performance. Serena Viegman has won three back-to-back Euros. She is the best manager in the world at this point. And you're going, this is not going to go well. It's not going to go down well. It's just obvious from the outset. I just think it's a sad end to a very, very brilliant international career that this is going to be the focus of it.

6:14And in the book, there are some really important stories, as Emma said, that need to be told and that should be told. And Mary should be allowed to tell them. But the focus, unfortunately, will be on this episode. And then I also do completely feel for Hannah as well, because she is in the eye of a storm, not necessarily of her own making in terms of the book. And I think that's what elicited some of the response from Sonia Bonpastor, is that she had to put together a player to play on Saturday. And she handled it really well on Saturday. But I just think maybe the timing was a bit unnecessary as well.

6:46Yeah, for anyone who's missed what Sonia Bonpastor, the Chelsea boss, said, she said, I just feel like what I read in terms of comments coming from Mary Earps, it's not acceptable, not to show respect to your teammate or your manager. We're talking about Hannah, but I'm also raising my voice for Serena. I just think when you use some words saying something about someone who won the European Championship three times in a row, you should probably think about it before you speak. Hannah's been fine with us and all the club, myself, the staff and the players are all behind her. If you look at what Hannah said in the previous comments about Mary Earps, then what Mary is saying about her now, one of them is class and Hannah is the class one.

7:22I mean look I understand managers coming in and weighing in in defence of their players but I'm also wondering whether or not that was that's just adding more fuel to a well lit fire I would suggest Soph Yeah I was in that press conference along with Emma and I do understand why they did it and why Sonia did it and I do kind of respect it as well in a way because I think Hannah's not speaking obviously I think she's been very well advised probably not to speak I think Sonia probably felt very clearly that she just needed to back a player and step up for her. And for Serena Viegman, who hasn't yet replied to some of the comments that Mary Earps made about her decision making around the whole bringing back of Hannah Hampton and around her retirement from England just before the Euros.

8:08It was very, very strong and it was a press conference that I will remember for a while. You don't want it to go down this route where you're taking shots at each other. But at the same time, Mary did in her book take a bit of a shot. And so someone has to take a shot back. She quite clearly, Emma, decided that this had to come out and this had to be said. And, you know, we talk a lot. It's very difficult. When you've got two people's perspectives, the truth probably lies somewhere in between what one party is saying and what the other party is saying, because you obviously take it from different angles.

8:41in hindsight I'm sure if she'd have known how this was going to play out Mary Ertz maybe would have delayed the timing of her book but I heard an interview that she did yesterday where she was talking about a lot of the fallout and she thinks that you know many parts of the book have actually been taken out of out of context a little bit and you know that there's so much other stuff in there that she wanted highlighted but you know we go back to the advice is she being given advice and ignoring it or is she not being given the right advice because it's very difficult not to think she's written the book therefore she wants what happened in 2022 out there you know one of the things that she said to me which I completely understand is that she wanted to write a book that was really authentic and sort of you know came from her and was the full story and you know and I really would just take this time to to urge you there's some seriously important topics that she goes through that are just so fascinating so please please do read those bits there was a particular bit about fertility and freezing her eggs for future childbirth which I just found was so fascinating and the lack of support around you know the procedure that goes with it which changes your hormones and she was sort of like how do I train what do I do what what do I don't do do I keep diving around as a goalkeeper that was really fascinating she comes out publicly she talks about her sexuality she She talks about restrictive eating and her issues with body images.

10:08So there really is some powerful stuff. So I understand why if you're writing a book that has to be so open and tells the whole story, you can't not talk about Hannah Hampton. Right. I think I think we have to say that. So for me, it comes down to one question, which is, you know, why are you releasing the book now? And she does admit it's very unusual for a current footballer to write a book. And she said that she's learned very quickly and very harshly why that is. And I think ultimately that's probably what she's taken from the last sort of, you know, 48 hours or so of reaction is that the timing is everything.

10:44Susie, yeah, you know, obviously you raised the part where she's talked in interviews about being taken out of context. I think that's really difficult because obviously we published those extracts in The Guardian and serialisation is a very normal part of the PR of a book launch. extracts are chosen and agreed in advance they're literally her words from her book so I think the publisher has to take a degree of responsibility for for that and then I also think I saw some other journalists uh on I think on a radio show I can't remember who talking about the role of the ghost writer as well it was Rory Smith on the Monday night club on Radio 5 Live yeah so Rory Smith uh basically that's the exact one said uh that ghost writers have a duty of care to the person they're ghosting on behalf of and that's clearly not worked out here right like if you're a ghost writer and I've ghosted a couple of books and I think he said similar you you obviously as a journalist are looking at the the juiciest bits and the most interesting bits is the thing that will sell the book and all of that but also you are advising that individual and helping them relay things in a way that isn't going to bring ridiculous heat on them right like you have a duty of care to protect them to a certain extent.

11:58I think that has been missed here. All of those don't lift any heat from her to a certain extent in that obviously she's made mistakes too. She should be alert to this. She's going to have read drafts of that book and should have been sort of alive to the fact that that was going to be extremely inflammatory. And this sort of halfway house of I will explain, I can see why she's done it. She wants to explain why she's made the decision she has. and so she's you know explained that the situation with Hannah was untenable to a good degree but then she's not gone further and said why that was the case and I think that halfway house is a little bit frustrating for a lot of people.

12:37Yeah it's a really tricky one to deal with and I think this is going to unfortunately for all players involved or all people involved it's going to rumble on somewhat no doubt up until the next international break which I'm sure will be dominated by questions towards Serena Vigman regarding it. Right, listen, speaking of the international break, it finished the other day, which meant that the Barclays WSL picked up where it left off, as did Manchester United, who held off a late comeback from Dario Vidozic's Brighton. It finished Brighton 2, Manchester United 3 in the end. Elizabeth Turland and Jess Park putting United into a two-goal lead.

13:16Frank Kirby made it 2-1. Lisa Nalson restored the deficit and then Kiko Seiki struck in injury time but ultimately it was Brighton who ran out of time they're doing brilliantly this season aren't they at the minute Susie five wins in seven keeping up the pace with the league leaders Chelsea how good were they at the weekend? Oh superb defensively not so great and I think that's the that's the issue but like in terms of attacking for it the link-up play between Jess Park and Ella Toon which they said they've been working on quite heavily in training is wonderful to watch and exciting for England as well and the way Jess Parker slotted in so seamlessly into that team and also is starting every game and has just been given the freedom to do what she does best is a really really nice thing to watch where many viewed her as sort of a make weight in the deal for City to get Clinton and she's the one who's really shining at the minute obviously albeit Clinton has you know kind of had injury issues and stuff like that and will be brilliant.

14:16I think there's no doubt about that. But yeah, that relationship's been great. And then you've got the defensive issues in this game, which I think are where the problem lies. And, you know, obviously there's an uncharacteristic mistake from Maya Letizia for one of the goals and things like that. And we know Brighton are a good team. We know Fran Kirby, if she gets into those positions sort of one-on-one, she's going to score. Like that's a given, but it was an uncharacteristically defensively mixed performance from United, which was interesting, but they still get the job done. And actually, you use the word uncharacteristic.

14:48That's what Dario Vidozic used as well. Third defeat in a row for Brighton, and he spoke about uncharacteristic errors. They are in a bit of an injury crisis at the moment, Brighton. Michelle Adjimang ruptured her ACL against Australia playing for England. So you'd kind of expect, Soph, that they would be a little bit disjointed going forward. But how does he fix it? Because obviously, she's out for the long term now. Yeah, it does leave them in a bit of a bind because Madison Haley is also injured when she's coming back from injury. So he doesn't have a lot of attacking options. He has Carla Camacho, who is a brilliant young talent, but she is adjusting to life in this league.

15:25I think she's also coming back from an ACL herself, not suffered too long ago. Michel Adjaman was his number nine for the season. That was the plan. So he's going to have to go back to the drawing board for the winter transfer window, I think, and try and solve a few problems there and get maybe a bit of cover and we've watched Brighton a lot this season. They are performing pretty well. They press well. They did improve a lot in the second half against Manchester United. I always think also after international break, everything is a bit disjointed in the first half particularly. So they kind of found a bit more rhythm.

15:58I don't think they'll be looking at this result. Dario was disappointed, of course he was, but it's not going to define their season, given the run that Manchester United are on and the ambitions that Manchester United have. Brighton are still very much building themselves to be a top half of the table team and to stay in that top half, I think. And that's going to be the process this season. Quick one on Michelle Adjumang, Emma, because we recorded the pod last week on Tuesday morning before the Australia Games. We haven't actually mentioned what happened to her, but obvious to say gutting for such a young player just coming into her own.

16:33But we wish her the best, obviously. Yeah, really, really sad, actually. You know, we were all at the game. we saw it live we kind of knew instantly what what had happened unfortunately I've seen so many of them live now that you know I can kind of tell which I think for itself goes to show just how just how ripe ACLs are Serena Beegman was visibly a little bit emotional afterwards as well um I think we all knew I actually walked past Michelle as I was leaving the stadium she had a smile on her face as she always does she's so mature she handles situations so well and you know I sort of just said to her you know take care Michelle and she was like thank you I'll be back and sort of walked off really merrily which was a nice yeah that was a nice kind of memory of that I left the stadium with because I you know I was I was worried about her as a human because you know we've we've come to love watching her play she's provided the whole nation with some incredible memories and um and she's just in the absolute stardust prime of her career so wish her all the best she'll be back players do come back it's it's not the end of the world and and she'll be back firing soon and I suppose you know the silver lining is she is so young it's not like it's happened at the age of 30.

17:40So yeah, wish for all the best. Emma said that players come back and Sam Kerr has come back for sure on the score sheet again for Chelsea, who are continuing their brilliant start to the season. A 2-0 win over London City Lionesses on Saturday. Goals from Ellie Carpenter and Sam Kerr in the 94th minute. And Sonia Bonpastor delighted with the result and detailed how tough it was for her team coming in after an international break because so many Chelsea players are international players, but they had a fast start, which helped them, Soph. Yeah, they did. Performances for Chelsea, they've been good in a way, but they've not been brilliant in terms of the way that they go about things.

18:22So to get off the mark quickly and to get their early goal was absolutely crucial for them against, you know, especially after an international break, Sonia Bonpas still talked about that, coming back in and having that flow to themselves early on. I think London City came back into the game massively. So to get that early goal was key. Ellie Carpenter as well, her first WSL goal, which is brilliant. And I think they really exploited the spaces down the sides, the wing backs. Lucy Bronze came in, she played right centre back. Ellie Carpenter was there for a wing back. And they had so much space to maraud into down, you know, the right and left.

18:53Sandy Baltimore, until she came off with a knock, was absolutely crucial as well. So they will be pleased that they got the job done. You know, they ticked that off, they've got a big one next week. It's the London Derby, and that's going to be the focus, I think. Yeah, it's going to be massive, that game, that's for sure. special moment for Sam Kerr Susie first goal at Stamford Bridge since returning from injury maybe starting to see the old Sam Kerr back again Yeah I mean she obviously was fortunate in the way the ball sort of fell to her after Poppy Pattinson maybe she'd have done better with it couldn't control it but the finish is just sublime and that's what she does right like it's instinctive you don't necessarily expect to receive the ball in that moment you expect that the defender is going to get it away you're not necessarily alert to that and then from that angle as well and to you know instinctively feel where the keeper is and lift it over the defender into that space is just so beautiful and it's just so nice to see like it reminds me and forgive me the men's football reference right I was at the game when Thierry Henry returned to the club the League Cup game and came off the bench and then scored almost with his first touch to win and put us through and the feeling I had when Omri touched that ball was oh this is what it's like to feel like whenever a player has a ball they're going to score and that's the feeling I get with Sam Kerr I literally feel whenever she picks up the ball you feel like it's going to be a goal and that feeling is really nice I really enjoy that feeling I enjoy watching a player who just exudes that level of class of instinct of competent finishing that you're just guaranteed a goal and it's it's quite rare but that is the feeling I have with her yeah unfortunately you know with with teams I support you get that feeling briefly and then it's like oh no he's skied it oh no it's wide it's a little bit different but I'll Tell you what, Emma, Jocelyn Prashur said that he's finally starting to see his side play as a team, which he said was, you know, the biggest problem at the beginning of the season.

21:00But how impressed were you with their performance? And do you feel as if they're growing into the league? Very impressed. And I do feel like they're growing into the league. I thought it was a really, really strong performance from start to finish. I think each time I see them, you know, every week or every couple of weeks, I really, really do see progression. and I think it's not often actually that we can see that in games you know like the managers will talk about feeling like they're progressing on the training ground or that they're building squad harmony or an identity but I really do think London City have been able to translate that every single week in terms of some form of progression even if results haven't gone their way you can see and I think I think from the first game they've had an attacking threat they've been able to create chances so I think for any newly promoted side coming up to the league that has a threat at that end I think automatically gives them a bit of a head start I mean you look at clubs like Liverpool for example who are you know a seasoned WSL club and and they can't create anything so you know for London City to be able to do that I think that shows the quality that they have in the squad but to actually get them organised and structured in the way that they did against Chelsea that for me was far more impressive because that doesn't really come necessarily down to individual quality that comes down to management I think Jocelyn Procure deserves a lot of praise because I think the way he's handled the high turnover of recruitment, the way that he's brought a squad together, formed a structure and being able to give people their roles and help them understand it, I think he's done that so well in such a short space of time.

22:32There's still a lot of work to do. They're not there yet, but for a newly promoted team, yes, they've spent a lot of money, but to be where they are, I think they'll be really pleased. Yeah, I agree. They are comfortably in mid-table in sixth on nine points, three wins out of their last five. I think that is a pretty decent start to their life in the Barclays WSL. Right, that's it for part one. In part two, we're going to look at what happened elsewhere over the weekend.

23:08Welcome back to part two of the Guardian Women's Football Weekly. So, what a six-goal thriller we were treated to at Villa Park on Sunday. Everton holding Aston Villa to a 3-all draw thanks to a 90th-minute equaliser from Kelly Gargo. It was such an entertaining game, Susie. Really good fun to watch. How do you feel the two sides matched up? Are they pretty similar this season? It was thrilling. I mean, we've always known that Villa have this level in them and the ability to score. Their squad's really good. I've done an interview. I think I mentioned it last week. It's not out yet. It will come out at some point.

23:42You've been teasing it for three weeks. I love her. I love her so much. She's great. She was so lovely to speak to. She's such a great football mind to chat to. And we know that there is the basis of something really, really good happening there, particularly with the recruitment of Maggie Murphy, formerly of Lewis, to oversee the women's set up. So there's really good things going on there. And we also know that Everton are doing some great things, playing at Goodison. Brian Sorensen is a good manager. He's been resourced now. Like these are two clubs, you know, with ambition that are starting to sort of back their teams further.

24:18So that's really great. Defensively, less so in this game, but an enjoyable game. And I found it really, really funny afterwards that both managers thought they were the better side and thought they should have won it, should have taken three points, which is maybe perhaps an indication that a draw was maybe a fair result in that sense. But yeah, they both could have won that game and it was only sort of really poor defensive organisation that I think let them down. You got back yourself, Susie. If either of them had come out and said, you know, something negative after a game like that, you'd be questioning it.

24:54And you've actually been commenting so, haven't you, about the trust that Natalia Arroyo is showing in her youngsters. It feels like a really fresh villa side this season. Yeah, both Emma and Susie will know how much I enjoy watching young players develop and spend my time with the youth team. I did rather, I think, coagulently message Emma after Lucia Kendall's player of the match performance against Australia for England and say, I knew she was good. So, yeah, no, it's a delight to see. And I think it was actually a problem that was highlighted about Aston Villa maybe about 18 months ago. The squad was looking very experienced, but maybe time for a recycle in terms of the fact that the players would be retiring soon or maybe not quite at their best because of their age.

25:37So they desperately needed a refresh. And I think it's remarkable how quickly it's happened in just a couple of windows. And the fact that Natalia Ororio is starting, you know, Lucia Kendall, first season in the WSL, moved up from Southampton over the summer. She's literally played every minute almost, I think, of the last three or four games for them in the league. They've got Rachel Maltby, who is 18 years old, went to the under-17s World Cup with England last year. She's playing pretty much every game now at left back. Missy Bo Kearns as well. She captains the team as well in the absence of Rachel Daly when she's not around.

26:10You've got some really good young players there. And the fact that they're getting this experience at the top level in the English game is key, not just for Aston Villa's future and for them building and building this project under Arroyo, but also for England's future as well. We need our young players playing WSL football regularly. And this is perfect for them. And they're performing well. And they're showing what they can do. Oh, I mentioned Georgia Mullet as well. She was with the under-23s this week. A 20-year-old, had a player of the match performance in this game. Goal and assist as well, our first league start.

26:42So they are coming good and it shows that if you put faith in them, they do come good. Yeah, without a doubt. Someone somewhere put faith in Kelly Gargo, didn't they, for France. This is what she put on social media. Frustrated with the score for sure, but so proud of the team. Showed what we can do. Proud to have scored that brace. will focus on the positives and come back even stronger for the next match. Well, they're going to need to be strong because they've got Manchester City on Sunday. Listen, she had a bit of a stop-start season, Emma, hasn't she, after that concussion that she suffered?

27:12But we're seeing the Kelly Gargo that we saw last season and the season before back to her best a little bit. Yeah, definitely. I think she should be starting every week when she's fully fit. You know, she offers them something that maybe they've lacked in previous seasons. I don't think they've quite had a player like her in the side. She's really dynamic, really clever. I also just think she's got a bit of presence about her and I quite like that she's... I don't really know the way to describe it. She's got personality, which I like. So a bag of tricks, really. You don't really know what you're going to get, which obviously is where a little bit of inconsistency comes from.

27:46But I do think that unpredictability is something which I think defenders don't enjoy playing against. So I really like her as a player. I want to see more from her because I believe that there is more from her. And I think Brian Soreson has sort of said the same. But for me, there's just no question. Like when she's fit, I think she has to start every game. Yeah, we saw the flashes of what she could provide last season. So hopefully she can go on a bit of a run now because she is a delight to watch. Liverpool fans not so delighted to watch their team this season. Problems continue to mount. Spurs came from behind this time.

28:22to seal a 2-1 winner at Brisbane Road. Sixth straight defeat for Liverpool. They only sit above West Ham on goal difference at the bottom. Both sides really struggling. We'll talk about the Hammers in a minute. Gareth Taylor promised his team would keep fighting. How does he turn it around? And is he going to be allowed to help them keep fighting, Susie? Give him money in January. Let him buy some players. he has a specific way of playing and a style he wants to play and obviously in Manchester City he was given the players and he inherited the players that that play that way that you know he was a Manchester City coaching pathway person and then inherits a team that is built on the basis of that pathway and now he's been given a team that does not have that skill set that level within them and it hasn't been built in them as a team yet and he's trying to build that and then And he's also got to adapt to the existing players that he has in that set-up.

29:22But he also needs to be given the players to build the team in the image that he thinks is most appropriate. And that's what needs to happen. He needs to be backed in January big time because they're in real, real trouble. Only protected by the fact that there is relegation, but it's not really relegation as they expand the league where bottom will play off against third in the Championship. and that would be a game you would expect a Liverpool or West Ham to win comfortably and not actually have a WSL side relegated this season. So that is a sort of safety net, but it's not good enough for a team of, like a club of Liverpool's status, given the seriousness with which the men's team is taken.