Are Kids Today Really Worse Off?

22:04They're somewhat true. So it is true that people who report themselves as being more conservative or more on the right side of the political spectrum do say this more. So they see a bigger change. But even if you go as far left as you can go in our survey population, they, too, perceive decline over the same period of time. So it's not like being on one side of the aisle turns the effect on and off. When it comes to age, it's actually a little more complicated. So it is the case that older people say there's been more decline in their lifetimes. but they have a longer lifetime in which to witness that decline.

22:36So what we really want to know is, do they perceive a greater rate of decline? So if you just divide how much moral decline they've seen over the number of years that they've had to see it, you'd get the same number if you're younger or older, and you do get the same number. So it's not just conservatives and it's not just older people who are saying this. Everybody, regardless of age and political persuasion, can agree, like people are worse now than they once were. But is everybody right? Is Adam smart to be skeptical? or has there really been a continuous and steep decline in people's kindness, honesty, and niceness over time?

23:07If that's true, like, that's the biggest effect in all of social science. Like, that's the most important thing we should figure out because, like, if people used to be nice and now they're nasty, they're like, well, how did that happen? When did it happen? Is there a way we can reverse it? Unfortunately, figuring out if people have in fact gotten less nice over time is kind of hard. There's no, like, great objective measure of this, right? We can't go into the Arctic and like drill for ice cores that tell us the historical amounts of niceness in 1750. But what we can do is look again at all this archival research we have where people are asked about the state of their moral worlds at that time.

23:43So questions like, have you looked after someone's male plants or pets while they were away in the last month? Have you given up your seat on the bus? Did people treat you with respect all day yesterday? If it is the case that people are getting worse and worse over time, we should be able to pick it up on these questions. People like surveyed back in 1985 should say, I was treated with respect all day yesterday. And then people in 2025 should say, I wasn't treated with respect all day yesterday. Instead, we find that in all of these questions, they're flat over and over again, flat, flat, flat.

24:11People give the same answers every year. Across more than 100 surveys testing more than 10 million people worldwide from the 1960s until today, Adam found that people report seeing exactly the same levels of niceness, honesty, and kindness over time. But those are just surveys. Is there any way to measure whether people's actual moral behavior has changed across time? So another way of looking at how people treat each other interpersonally is to look at what economists have been doing in their labs for the past 50 years. They do these economic games, and games is like a strong word for what these are.

24:43I'd hate to hang out and play games with economists. But basically, people come into the lab, they play like the Prisoner's Dilemma or a common goods game. These are games where essentially you have the option of being generous or selfish with a stranger. A team of economists put the data from all these different, do you want to be nice or mean to a stranger games together, into what's known as a meta-analysis. You can think of a meta-analysis as one big statistical test that mathematically combines the results of lots of studies on one topic. And the meta-analysis Adam found included more than 500 different generosity experiments, running all the way from the 1950s until today.

25:19And what they wanted to know was, are people more likely to be generous or selfish with a stranger? And the researchers themselves tell us that they went in thinking that people were going to be more selfish over time. They expected to find that finding. Instead, they found the opposite. People were 10 percentage points more likely to choose the generous option in these games than the selfish one. Not only have people not gotten meaner over the last 70 years, they've actually gotten 10 percent nicer. Adam guessed that most laypeople would find these results shocking. We just took those findings and asked another sample of people to predict them.

25:53We describe the games. We tell them the period of time we're looking at. And we said, we'll pay you extra money if you get this right. Like, just where did it go over time? And people say, much like the researchers, they expect that people got more selfish over time when, in fact, they got more selfless. So even when you make the question really specific, even when you pay people to get the answer right, they will tell you that people are meaner when, in fact, they're nicer. Adam calls this strange effect the illusion of world decline. We think people are getting worse over time, that everybody is less honest and kind and nice than they used to be.

26:27But Adam's work shows we're just wrong. But where does the illusion of moral decline come from? Adam thinks it arises because of the combination of two common cognitive biases. The first bias is one that we talk about a lot on the Happiness Lab. We don't notice the good stuff in life nearly as much as we notice the bad stuff. It's just a negativity bias. We pay more attention to bad things than good things. This is why, you know, if it bleeds, it leads. You're more likely to be served a negative news story. You're more likely to click it. But that's enough to make it seem like the world's always bad.

26:59I don't think that's enough to make it seem like the world was once good. For that, you need an additional effect. This one comes more strictly from the memory literature. It's called a fading affect bias, which is just the observation that the pleasure of good memories does not fade as fast as the pain of negative memories. so like if you got turned down for your high school prom like that feels pretty bad at the time but 20 years later it's maybe a funny story or maybe a relieving story right i found my person uh and like so glad i didn't end up with that one whereas like if you had a great high school prom like probably was fun at the time when you remember it's like it's not as fun as it was to experience but it's still pretty good and those two tendencies are what happens in memory on average the good things lose some of their goodness but generally remain good the bad things lose more of their badness and they sometimes flip to becoming good.

27:47And so if you combine these two phenomena, the fading affect bias and the negativity bias, you can create this perception that the world is now bad, but it was once good. Let's do a quick recap. Why do people mistakenly think that people today are worse than they were in the past? Reason number one is the negativity bias. When we look out at the world as it is today, we naturally notice people doing lots of bad stuff, but we don't tend to notice all the people doing good stuff. This starts us off on the path of thinking, hey, people today are kind of crappy. Then our minds get hit by bias number two, the fading affect bias.

28:23All the bad stuff we noticed about people in the past starts to slowly seem less bad as time goes on. The past becomes rosier and rosier. Ergo, we come to believe that people today suck more than they did back in the day. Adam says that these two biases can cause illusions of decline more often than we realize. Take, for example, another situation in which people often say things were better in the past, with music. Think about the newest song you've heard recently. Is that song better or worse than the music that was on the radio when you were in high school? If you're like most people, you probably think that today's music is just worse than when you were a teenager.

29:00That today's music ain't like that old-time rock and roll, as it were. But notice how the same two cognitive biases are at work when we evaluate how music has changed over time. You hear both good music and bad music. The bad music feels worse than the good music feels good. And then you get this feeling of like, you know, back on the radio in whenever you were growing up, we only had good stuff. It was like mainly hits, but it's because you've forgotten and now don't care about all of the bad music. You forgot about the number one hit of Disco Duck by Rick Dees and his cast of Idiot. That's their literal band name.

29:32Like no one remembers that that was in a, you know, a brief moment of hysteria, a number one hit in America. They remember the Beatles and the Rolling Stones, music that's lasted. I've had this phenomenon when I go on road trips sometimes. I'm, you know, listening to whatever's on the radio because my phone sucks and it doesn't talk to my car. And so I'll hear like, oh, it's Casey Kasem's like, you know, top countdown. And they do these retro countdowns. And my husband and I were driving one time and it was like the 1987 Casey Kasem countdown. I was like, oh, my God, 1987 was the best. There was like the cure.

30:02Like, this is going to be amazing.

30:14Oh my gosh, it was terrible.

30:20So much terrible stuff.

30:28And I was like, oh my God, none of these exist in my memory anymore. It's just that one amazing Cure song. But actually, like, the top 100 was just as bad in 1987 as it was today, even though my memory does not believe that at all. It's so funny. I've had the exact same experience driving with my dad, listening to, like, those Sirius XM stations where they play verbatim top 40 countdowns. Because it's a rare peek into what the past was actually like at the time. No one today is picking these songs for you. This is, like, what America picked on that day in that year. And I think there's actually so few ways of really peeking into what it was like to be a person back then.

31:02But like, no, that was the radio people listened to. I want to highlight the point that Adam just made because I think it's super important. To know if people are really getting worse over time, we have to have an accurate way to peek into the past. But reliable windows into earlier eras are super rare. Adam had archival data sets, so he had the receipts to show that people were nicer in the past than we remember. I had the actual Casey Kasem countdown from 1987. so I could hear that my beloved old-time rock and roll was just as bad as the songs of today. And that gets us back to today's happiness hot take.

31:35For years, I and so many other scholars have assumed that kids' mental health today is more messed up than it was in previous generations. But could I and so many other scholars be falling prey to yet another illusion of decline? The only way to find out would be to find an accurate archaeological peek into what college students were really like back when Casey Kasem did that 1987 countdown or when our parents' parents' generation went to college. For decades, researchers like me assumed that no such accurate peak existed. But that was about to change. The idea that there might be these materials that could change the story of what it means to grow up in this pivotal moment in time, I was going to find them.

32:17The Happiness Lab will return in a moment.

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35:34Visit Bahamar.com today. College student mental health expert Alexis Redding spent her formative years watching her Egyptologist father piece together stories of past generations with small bits of bone and pottery. Now she was poised to put together her own story of the past, one that could tell us something really important about the present. That is, if she could find the lost data tapes of a mysterious, unpublished 1970s study. I dug through the basements. I climbed through the other things in the attic. I, at some point, pried open the drawer of a rusty file cabinet in the basement that had, like, been sitting in water.

36:12I was able to find meeting minutes and the old letters to funders and confirm that the study had taken place. It had been rigorous, but I couldn't find the tapes. After smashing through all the rusty file cabinets she could, Alexis turned to her last hope, the university archive. That spot where institutions stick all the historical stuff that they're not sure what to do with. Month after month, I was sitting in the archives opening box after box. Until one day, I lifted up the top of a box and there was the first set of them. It took me almost a year, but I found them. Alexis finally had her long-lost archaeological peek into what student life was like when her father was in college.

36:53She was finally ready to analyze the data. So I enlisted the help of my colleague, Dr. Nancy Hill. And as we were framing what it was that we were hoping to hear on these recordings, we started from a kids these days place. Our idea was, oh, this perfect time capsule of interviews from the 1970s. Obviously, it's going to help us figure out what is so different about being a college student today. And we both sat down to listen independently. And we both had the same just jarring realization that what we were actually hearing sounded no different than what our students were talking about in our office hours, in our classrooms, that there was this level of continuity that we had absolutely not expected.

37:36Give me some examples. The loneliness that they were struggling with, the challenge of finding friends, finding their people. I remember walking through the dining hall many times and just not seeing anyone that I felt comfortable with to sit down with. And I would just go off and sit by myself. The pressure to have life figured out by graduation and the sense of the ticking clock. You know, it just seemed really huge and sort of overwhelming. And I was afraid of the courses and I was afraid I wouldn't do well and all that. Things that students come into my office to talk about today were exactly the things that those students were talking about.

38:12Alexis wasn't able to share the students' actual recordings because the 1970s researchers didn't think to ask for podcast usage in their original consent forms. Which makes sense because podcasts didn't exist in 1975. But Alexis was able to share the actual quotes from student recordings. And that's what you're hearing now. I think I compare myself to other people too much when I first came, you know? Like, a lot of kids came from money, and I started to compare that to what I had. And I worry about that. I went through a period of depression between January and February. I'm getting to the point where I don't know what I want.

38:46And, I don't know, I'm not even sure how to deal with people. Listening to these reenactments was so shocking for me. We are all sort of pessimistic and cynical about everything. when we think about our chances of getting a job. These are the same kinds of worries that my Yale students share in my happiness class today. I really collapsed one day. I just was, I felt like I was going to cry all the time, and that had never happened to me before. Because I've never been a crier, and I've never been that unhappy. I always kind of believed in myself. Now I would sit on my bed and listen to music and feel like, what am I going to do?

39:24It was so remarkable to hear those parallels. And then every so often there would be these peppered in details of like a student on the recordings asking for the ashtray or a lighter or something that was so anachronistic. But the core developmental, who am I? What do I want? How am I going to find my place? That was so beautifully connected. It was really disorienting for us as researchers to be so wrong about our hypothesis. Alexis analyzed the results every way she could think of. Each new analysis revealed the same finding. The mental health of the 1970s students on those tapes was simply no different from the mental health of the kids in the 2020s.

40:11As a last-ditch attempt to confirm her original hypothesis, she enlisted the help of a new group of research collaborators, the kids today. So I set up some focus groups with current students, and I was fully transparent. These are interviews that took place in the 1970s. I need you to help me figure out what is similar and what is different. And I gave them two highlighters. Green was what you identify as similar, and pink was anything that was different. And in focus group after focus group, I just watched the transcripts turn green with highlighter ink. The kids today could not see any difference between their own mental health problems and those faced by their grandparents' generation.

40:51The typical students happiness struggles just hadn't seemed to change in over 50 years. I first heard about Alexis's findings at a workshop at Harvard over a year ago. For weeks, I couldn't get her results out of my head. They simply didn't fit with all the studies I'd read and all the results I'd talked about in my own interviews. All those findings showing increasing rates of depression and anxiety in kids today. I asked Alexis where she thought the discrepancy came from. I think the first thing is really to begin to decouple these two trends of what is happening simultaneously. One, to understand what is a clinical challenge and what is a typical developmental challenge.

41:29There are students who are having very real mental health crises where they need intervention from clinical counselors. And then the vast majority of students are those who are just struggling with typical developmental challenges of transition, of what does it mean to leave home, move to a college campus, be asked to answer these big questions about what do I want out of my life? How am I going to get there? And we conflate these two things, which means that number one, we all panic. So the second a student comes to us and they tell us that they're lonely or that they have anxiety, we leap to this is a clinical problem.

42:05So we're really trying to have a different kind of conversation about what's really going on, what is typical, normal, developmental, and hard about being a young adult, about being in college, and to recognize the clinical challenges that are happening on a separate track. I resonated with Alexis's idea of these two tracks because research shows that there definitely are more college students on that first track today than there have ever been in the past. Students facing clinically significant levels of mental health issues that require urgent professional treatment. Students facing acute symptoms like panic attacks or suicidality or a level of anxiety that requires medication just to function.

42:45But there are also lots of other students in track too. College students who are having a hard time because college life has always been hard. That second group is simply reacting normatively to the typical developmental stresses that come with being 19 years old, no matter what generation you're in. Alexis worries that we might be hurting this second group of students when we inadvertently lump them in with the first. We are so scared that we are going to underreact to a severe challenge that we tend to overreact. Alexis also worries that kids today are starting to own the narrative that adults typically tell about them, that they're just so different than previous generations.

43:24And that's why she's begun a new intervention with the students in her classes, one aimed at teaching them just how similar their current generation is to previous ones. And so I give them a series of quotes and I tell them these either come from the 1970s or these are from the 2020s. And I ask them not just to tell me which generation they think it's from, but why. And so we'll put up a quote like a student who couldn't get out of bed and it feels like he's wasting his time because he doesn't want to go to class because he doesn't know what's going on in class and he doesn't know to ask for help.

43:57So he just doesn't show up. And my students will tell me, oh, I've done this, or this is bed rot. He's probably scrolling on TikTok. And we'll build this strong case and we'll even tell me there's no way that this is a student from another generation. And then I reveal one after the next that, indeed, this is a student from another generation, from your parents' generation or from your grandparents' generation. And I think that simple activity really opens our frame to better understanding. I couldn't help but try out Alexis's intervention with my own students at Yale. So this is for this episode that we're doing about how mental health has changed over time.

44:36And I'm going to do an exercise with you guys that Alexis Redding does with her students. She was the one that found these recordings from the 1970s. So these are Harvard students, class of 1975. And also she was doing qualitative interviews with students from 2025. And so the game is just like, can you tell which is which? whether this is a student from 1975 or a student from 2025. Does that make sense? Yes. Yeah. Here is quote number one. I remember walking through the dining hall many times, then just not seeing anyone that I felt comfortable to sit down with. And I would just go off and sit by myself.

45:12This is a student talking about his first year on campus. So 2020s or 1970s. That just kind of sounds like me my freshman year. My Yale students seem to get it wrong too. I'll say that's totally in line with the 2020s experience. Yeah, 100 % 2020. That is like peak undergrad social anxiety. Turns out, nope, it was 1975. What? They too were shocked by what they were hearing. Okay, next one. I went through a period of depression between January and February. I'm getting to the point where I don't even know what I want. I don't know. I'm just not sure how to even deal with people anymore. 2025. I think there's something about the language of like pausing and not finishing a sentence that I'm like, oh, Gen Z-er.

46:01They were just more articulate in the 1970s. Yeah. I think the phrase, I don't know how to deal with people and talking about like people scare me and stuff like that. That's very much like a 2020-ish type of thing to say. They, too, assumed that their grandparents' generation was different. In my head, like 1970s students are all like happy and like congregating and like they know exactly what they want to do. and they're going to get jobs and whatever and they don't have to worry about any of these things. That's my stereotype at least. And 1970s again. I lied, they're all from the 1970s, as you probably figured out.

46:33But how does it feel hearing that they're so similar? Oh, well, it gives me a sense of, like, common humanity that, like, everybody goes through the same things. The first thing to come to mind, like, what this feels like to me is, you know, those ancient graffiti at Pompeii or whatever where it's, like, people talking about bathroom humor kind of stuff. I feel like looking at that always makes me feel like, oh, they were just like us. And I feel like we think of ourselves as like this unique special thing where we're dealing with bad mental health or whatever. But yeah, I guess it probably was this universal experience and people in the 1970s probably were feeling the same way.

47:06I think that's kind of cool. I mean, there's something definitely validating about it. So it's nice to hear that it really doesn't matter what time. You're probably going to go through the same sorts of questions and insecurities and whatnot. I think we put such a false barrier between us and current students with the kids these days narrative because naturally, what do they conclude from that? The grownups in my life aren't going to listen. They don't respect me. They don't understand what I'm going through. And if we can just take some of the bricks out of that wall and build that connection, it's incredibly meaningful to sort of see that generational similarity and to lead with a sense of empathy of I was there too.

47:48And if we can tap back into that, and we can, we can have a much more humane, grounded conversation with young people that is a lot less kids these days and a lot more, I know what you're feeling. I experienced it too. Now that I've sort of tapped back in, I can relate differently. But there was a second group that Alexis realized might benefit from hearing the details of these old interviews, the 1970s participants themselves. With permission from the university, Alexis was able to track down 20 of the original participants. And her question for them was simple. Do you remember how tough it was to be in college?

48:24And then she offered them the chance to hear the recording of their original interviews. How did the 70-year-old participants react to hearing the struggles of their 19-year-old selves more than 50 years later? They would tell us, like, I remembered the broad strokes. I remembered generally what was happening, but I didn't remember how it felt. These former students had succumbed to the same cognitive biases that psychologist Adam Mastroianni had described earlier. They heard the same negative stuff that we all do about kids today in the news. At the same time, their memories of their own college days slowly got muddled by the fading affect bias.

48:59They simply didn't remember how bad things often felt as a college student. All those moments of loneliness and job worries and academic stress were clear as day in the recordings. But the participants couldn't remember just how bad those moments felt at the time. And that, to me, was so, so interesting. Indeed, what they started to say is that they wish they'd heard the recording sooner, so that when they were raising their kids or teaching their students or talking to their grandkids, they could have related better. But there's still one archaeological mystery from Alexis's adventures that we haven't solved yet.

49:32Dr. Perry spent 10 years painstakingly collecting hundreds of interviews with students from the 1970s on those reel-to-reel tapes? Why had he decided to replicate his original study 20 years later with a new group of students? And why did he choose not to publish those findings? How did all his data end up in unmarked boxes on some random attic bookshelf? The answer to this mystery was buried inside that wet, rusty file cabinet that Alexis described smashing into earlier. Sitting at the bottom was a sheet of notebook paper covered in scribbles of what seemed to be the minutes of a random research meeting.

50:07Only later would Alexis discover that the notes from this particular meeting were important. They were from the conversation in which Perry's team made their fateful decision to abandon the new study. Alexis finally had her solution not only to why the study had begun, but also why it was shelved. There was a researcher who said, in these poignant words, that they couldn't believe that they had to accept the null hypothesis, that there was no difference between generations. The study was replicated because they wanted to see what was different about kids these days. That they had done their work in the 50s and 60s, and by the 70s, with everything that had changed in society, they had decided kids these days were so different, they had to do the study again.

50:49Perry's team had exactly the same hypothesis about their contemporary students that so many of us have about the kids today. Those adult researchers who grew up in the 1950s looked at the college students of the 1970s. walking around with their weird bell-bottoms and speaking so anxiously about the Vietnam War and post-college job prospects. And they asked themselves, what the heck is up with kids today? There's got to be something that's so different about them. And the researchers in 1979 felt like they had failed after 10 years and literally thousands of hours worth of work. And that was why the study was sent off to cold storage, because they hadn't been able to prove generational difference.

51:29And here we were, looking back to 1975, saying exactly the same thing. There's no difference. That's a nice way to sum up this week's happiness hot take. There's no difference. Gen Z college students today are going through the same sorts of struggles as college students faced in their parents' parents' generation. And again, I want to be super clear here. I'm not saying that there aren't college students today who are facing real mental health struggles. Sadly, there are far too many. And surveys show that the rate of those clinical-level mental health struggles have indeed gone up over time and over generations.

52:07But we also have to remind ourselves to be a little skeptical whenever we start thinking that the kids today are so much worse than how kids used to be. Our lying minds are prone to seeing an illusory decline whenever we think about how things have changed over time, whether that's what we believe about people's kindness or the kids' mental health or the crappiness of music in the latest top 10 chart. So the next time you hear someone say something disparaging about the kids today, I hope you will ever so gently hit them with the hottest of happiness hot takes. The kids today are actually all right.

52:39Or at least just as all right as the kids have ever been. And be sure to tell them that you heard that happiness hot take here on The Happiness Lab. With me, Dr. Laurie Santos.

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