How to Spend Your Time and Money Better (with Nobel Prize Winner Richard Thaler)

22:41Alex Imas:What were they selling, Alex? It was like, you know, these like little cabins and secluded in the Alps. There's nobody there. You come in, there's wine and cheese set up. You take however much you want, then you put your money in the little box and you leave. It's less quaint than Cornell, I guess. The fresh corn versus really nice French wine, but yeah. But you have to hike up there to get it. Coming up after the break, we'll dive into more of my favorite irrationalities, like why I keep paying for a gym that I've only ever used once and why it's so hard to actually redeem the frequent flyer miles I've been hoarding.

23:15The Happiness Lab will be right back. The best summer pieces are the ones you end up wearing on repeat. For me, that means clothes that feel comfortable, versatile, and somehow look right for every occasion. That's why I love Quince. They make elevated essentials using premium materials like European linen, organic cotton, and washable silk without the traditional retail markup. This summer, I've been obsessed with Quince's washable stretch silk tiered maxi dress. It's made of silk with just enough stretch to actually move with you. It looks just as perfect at a posh summer dinner party as it does on a beach walk.

23:53Plus, it has pockets, which I love. But that's just the beginning. Quince has denim that's broken in and soft, and their 14-karat gold jewelry, think hoops and delicate chains, are the kind of finishing touches that make a five-minute outfit look completely intentional. Make your summer wardrobe feel easier. Go to quince.com slash happiness for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash happiness for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince dot com slash happiness. Your space should feel like you. And if it doesn't feel like you yet, sometimes that comes down to a budget problem.

24:33Wayfair fixes that. Before I turned to Wayfair, my garden herbs were sitting in plastic yogurt containers. They were functional, but not that great looking. But then I turned to Wayfair. I bought two large outdoor trough planters. After shopping at Wayfair, my mini garden looks sleek and organized. I've now changed my morning routine to eat my breakfast sitting by these planters, and the space gives me so much joy. With those planters in place, my outdoor patio just works. And I gotta give Wayfair credit here, because I couldn't find the planters I needed anywhere else. They had to be a specific size to fit the patio space, they had to be lightweight, and Wayfair had exactly what I needed.

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25:31Alex Imas:Wayfair, every style, every home. Okay, quick pop quiz. Ready? What's your daily routine for fueling your gut? If your brain immediately went, uh, that's fair. We spend a lot of time thinking about what fuels our body. But when it comes to gut health, things can start to feel surprisingly complicated. The good news, it doesn't have to be. That's why Kashi Gut Health Granola is such an easy win. It's a straightforward, delicious way to help fuel your gut, made with prebiotics, fiber, and gut-activated cultures. Plus, it tastes good. Wait, let me rephrase that. Kashi Gut Health Granola is delicious.

26:09Their blueberry almond granola, for example, starts with whole grain oats and combines them with, well, blueberries and almonds. It's right there in the name. But it's so good. And Kashi Gut Health Granola makes a great breakfast. It's also the kind of afternoon snack that's just so satisfying. I mean, it's straightforward. It fuels your gut and it tastes great. Gut fuel is in the bag. Say hello to the new Kashi Gut Health Granola.

26:40All right, so now we're moving on to irrationality number three, something that I struggle with a lot personally, which is that as humans, we seem to have more of a problem with inertia than the standard economic model might predict. Richard, tell me about the classic mug study that showed us the problems that people face with inertia. Yeah, so there's something that I originally called the endowment effect because your endowment is something you own. And the empirical result is that we value stuff we have more than we would be willing to pay to get it. So maybe have me and Alex play. If you were putting me in an endowment effect study, how would you do it?

27:23You and Alex are in a class sitting next to each other. And I go around and I give half of you a Yale University coffee mug. It says Bula Bula or something on the mug. Bula Bula, which, of course, for those that don't know, is the Yale fight chant. There are literally those mugs in the bookstore. So, yeah. Yeah. And then we say, all right, what we're going to do is we're going to have a market for these mugs. Lori, you have a mug, and you're asked, for each of the following prices, are you willing to sell it or not? So$10,$9.50, so forth, down. And Alex is asked, at each of these prices, are you willing to buy one?

28:08Now, a principle of economic rationality is, if you wouldn't pay$6 to get it, then you should be willing to sell it for$6. Suppose we hand out$5 bills. Well, people will be willing to trade those for$6. And they won't pay$6 to get one, right? So mugs should be like$5 bills. But when we run those experiments, the people who get mugs demand twice as much to give them up as the people who randomly didn't get a mug are willing to pay to get it. And notice, it's not like we're asking about your favorite hat, right? This mug has been in your possession for about two minutes, and you haven't grown to love it.

29:02But you act like you do. So, Alex, explain why the endowment effect is an example of us showing inertia. Because I think that it's part of a broader set of biases that you talk about in the book that I find really fascinating.

29:13Alex Imas:Yeah, so basically, there's a bunch of different biases that are essentially an effect that's observed in a particular context that are kind of driven by the same sort of underlying psychology, which you can describe as inertia, that is driven by something that we discuss as loss aversion. Particularly, look, I'm already here. I have this thing or this activity that I'm doing or whatever you want to call it. This is now kind of my status quo. This is where I'm at. Lose that thing. And that loss really hurts. In fact, a loss hurts about twice, maybe sometimes more than an equivalent gain feels good.

29:53Alex Imas:This is what we call loss aversion. And this fits with the mug results that Richard was just talking about, because people are demanding twice as much to sell this mug as buyers are willing to buy. It's like losing the mug kind of hits them twice as hard financially. Exactly. Now this mug is mine. This is kind of now my status quo. Giving it up will hurt a lot. So I need more money to be compensated for that pain. And so that's in the context of, again, this sort of toy example where you're selling mugs. But this kind of status quo inertia bias is something that lots of companies are using against us all the time.

30:25I have my own example right now. I have paid to join a gym as part of this summer program. This really cool bouldering gym near my house was like, we have yoga classes. And I was like, oh, great. I'm going to join the bouldering gym. And it turns out that so far this summer, I've had a very expensive single yoga class for the price of the entire summer enrollment. It's like a$300 yoga class, which is really embarrassing. But this is my status quo bias at work. Richard, explain why this is. Yeah. Our friends, the married couple of Stefano De La Vina and Ulrika Malmende wrote a paper about this when they were grad students that was called paying not to go to the gym, which is what Lori did this summer.

31:06You know, this is an example of what's called status quo bias. Whatever the status quo is, you tend to stick with. We all know this happens. suppose you're watching some show say you're streaming and an episode ends and then the next one starts so if you do nothing which people are really good at then you start watching the next one and the next thing you know you've watched four of this stupid sitcom that really wasn't all that much fun, but you just found yourself doing it. You know, you can use this for good or for bad. And firms have figured this out. So that gym, warning, Lori, they are going to automatically renew your subscription.

32:00It is true. Yeah, right. And you know what? You're only going to go once this fall because you'll be even busier. So I'm going to save you a lot of money here and suggest you quit now. But we've used exactly that trick for good when the new kind of retirement plans, 401k type plans, first came on the scene. One of the problems was that people just didn't sign up, even if their employer was matching their contributions dollar for dollar, which is really, really stupid. And so we got the clever idea, why don't we just change the default and say, hey, Lori, we have a new retirement plan. We're going to put you in unless you fill out some form and say you don't want it.

32:50And boom, that gets enrollment up to 90%. And notice that's something economists would say will have no effect. Because what kind of idiot would turn down a dollar-for-dollar match of 6 % of their salary. No, no idiot would say, because I have to fill out a one-page form. But enrollments went from 50 % to 90 % just by doing that. So that was using inertia for good. Automatically renewing your gym membership is for profit, and we observe both. And there are lots of policy decisions. One that is a little up in the air, the last weeks of the Biden administration, they passed a rule saying that you have to be able to unsubscribe the same way you subscribed.

33:46So if it was with one click, it should be one click. Some gyms during COVID, COVID were requiring people to come to the gym, which was closed, in person to quit. That's really evil, right? So this rule is up in the air. I don't know whether it's going to be enforced or not, but I strongly believe that's a rule for good. So it seems like the happiness lesson from this problem we have with inertia is like, if you're stuck in some status quo, make sure it's a status quo that you like or build your own status quos that might be helpful, but try to notice when you're getting stuck in something just because it was the thing that you're used to.

34:31Yeah. Okay. So that was irrationality number three that I think has interesting implications for happiness. Now we get to irrationality number four, which is I think a very, very big one when it comes to our happiness. And this is this idea that we have a defective telescope as economist Arthur Pigou put it. What does Pigou mean by a defective telescope. The idea is that the difference between today and tomorrow seems bigger than the difference between two days apart in a year. Irrationally so. So Lori is going to say, well, today she's busy. She's taping this podcast. She doesn't have time to quit that gym.

35:14She's going to do it tomorrow. And tomorrow, there's going to be something else. So we all procrastinate. That may be one reason it took us four years to do this simple revision of this book. Alex had a couple of kids, so he has an excuse. So that defective telescope affects things like saving for retirement, because retirement seems like it's a long way off. and then suddenly you wake up and you're old like me. I mean, I'll give you an even closer to home example for listeners who might not be as old as you are, Richard, which is - Imagine that. Which is just what's happening in your calendar weeks or months from now.

35:59You know, today, Laurie, if you ask me, hey, would you want to write a chapter for a book that doesn't even sound that interesting? I'm like, no way. But if you ask me, does December Laurie want to put some time into writing a chapter that sounds kind of interesting? I'm like, oh, my God, December, Lori would love that. She would love to spend her time doing that thing. And so I feel like my personal calendar is filled with these instances of past Lori's myopia. Like somehow she thought that, you know, doing this podcast interview today, it'd be totally fine to do that with a bunch of student meetings.

36:28And she doesn't need lunch that day. She'll just squeeze other things in.

36:31Alex Imas:And I think that, you know, in terms of like rules in order to kind of solve these sorts of issues. My favorite one is, what if that person asked you to do that today? Would you do it? If the answer is no, don't do it a year from now. Because a year from now, unless something real bad happens, will at some point become today. And you'll be like, holy, you know. Yeah. No, I think this is so powerful, right? Because I think one of the big happiness implications of this defective telescope is that we're just constantly screwing over our future selves. Interestingly, we talked recently on a podcast about a different way we screw over our future selves that I'd be curious to think how behavioral economists think about this.

37:10Behavioral economists are constantly talking about cases of myopia, but happiness scientists often consider these cases of what's called hyperopia, right? Where you kind of wind up saving these good things for the future that you never end up enjoying. So I'm thinking of cases of like my frequent flyer miles. I'm sitting on 100 ,000 frequent flyer miles that I'm like, someday I'll want to enjoy these, but I never actually planned the vacation to use them. Or, you know, a really nice bottle of wine that a good friend gave me for a birthday that I'm like, oh, I want to wait for the special day to use that.

37:41And then I never use it. And years later, I'll probably open it and it's corked and I've forgotten about it. Are there hyperopic cases that behavioral economists think about? Yeah. So I have a student named Suzanne Hsu, and she talks about the example that you have two tomatoes sitting on your kitchen counter. And one is perfect. It's like God's tomato. And one is two days past. Which one do you eat tonight? And in my family, we refer to the perfect one as Suzanne's tomato. My wife is more frugal than me. And she can't bear the thought of throwing away that almost still good tomato, whereas I always want to go for the perfect one.

38:34And that's important because if you wait till tomorrow, Suzanne's tomato is going to be not so good, too. You never eat Suzanne's tomato. That's the problem. So you got to go for Suzanne's tomato when it's there.

38:48Alex Imas:Our friend George Lowenstein has, and we talk about this in the book, this idea of anticipatory utility. You know, you were talking about a nice bottle of wine or all of these travel miles or something like that. You're kind of saving it for something. You have this dream in your head that there's going to be this perfect event where you open up the bottle. You have this incredible dinner party. Everything is amazing. It's going to happen at some point in the future. And what this allows you to do is kind of just like go on imagining that that's going to happen, which provides you some sort of happiness over time.

39:18Alex Imas:And this sort of anticipatory utility leads to what looks like putting nice things into the future too much. And so it seems like we want to embrace the savoring. We want to embrace the anticipatory utility. But maybe just put in the calendar that like, you know, October 21st, I'm going to drink the good wine. Or maybe like in January, write in your calendar, use a frequent flyer miles this month. The next time Thaler's in New Haven, that's when you open that bottle. We'll see if we have some of Suzanne's tomatoes then. I don't know if we like. Okay. When we get back from the break, we'll dive into my final two favorite anomalies.

39:55Think why Dustin Hoffman hounded Gene Hackman for lunch money and why people buy convertibles in snowy climates. The Happiness Lab will be back in a moment. The best summer pieces are the ones you end up wearing on repeat. For me, that means clothes that feel comfortable, versatile, and somehow look right for every occasion. That's why I love Quince. They make elevated essentials using premium materials like European linen, organic cotton, and washable silk without the traditional retail markup. This summer, I've been obsessed with Quince's washable stretch silk tiered maxi dress. It's made of silk with just enough stretch to actually move with you.

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41:15Okay, quick pop quiz. Ready? What's your daily routine for fueling your gut? If your brain immediately went, uh, that's fair. We spend a lot of time thinking about what fuels our body, but when it comes to gut health, things can start to feel surprisingly complicated. The good news, it doesn't have to be. That's why Kashi Gut Health Granola is such an easy win. It's a straightforward, delicious way to help fuel your gut, made with prebiotics, fiber, and gut-activated cultures. Plus, it tastes good. Wait, let me rephrase that. Kashi Gut Health Granola is delicious. Their blueberry almond granola, for example, starts with whole grain oats and combines them with, well, blueberries and almonds.

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43:29Irrationality number five gets us into monetary territory. And it's the idea that money is actually fungible, but we don't treat it like that. Alex, what's this idea of fungibility?

43:40Alex Imas:The idea of fungibility underlies the whole reason we have money in the first place and we're not bartering anymore. It just basically means a dollar is a dollar. It doesn't matter how I got the dollar, it'll buy you the same thing. So you should spend it the same way regardless of how you got it. So let's say you got a nice bonus at work, come home, you think about how you want to spend that$500 or you found$500 envelope on the ground. You think about how you want to spend it. You should basically spend it the same way. It doesn't really matter how you got it. The money is worth the same to you.

44:11Alex Imas:You should spend it exactly the same way. And this idea of fungibility underlies the very, very basic principles of economics. Except the problem is that we tend not to do that. In fact, we violate this fungibility principle in pretty much every behavior we engage in. Richard, in the book, you use an example of the way we violate it when we're purchasing gas under certain situations. I hadn't heard about this. We share the gas example. Yeah. So one of the big themes in the book in terms of methodology, Alex referred to this earlier, is a lot of stuff that was demonstrated with thought experiments or lab experiments has now been replicated with actual data.

44:53And this is a good example of that. Our friends, Jesse Shapiro and Justine Hastings, looked at what happened when the price of gasoline fell by 50 % during the financial crisis. So this was really bad times. Lots of unemployment. People are cutting back on everything, but gas has gotten cheaper. So they were spending$80 a week on gas, and now it's$40. So there's$40 extra in their budget. And what do they do with that windfall? Well, they spend some of it very stupidly on better grade gas. So it'd be like I would buy the 87%, you know, the cheapo gas, the cheapest one on the board. But then when the price of gas falls, instead of saying like, oh, I can save that money and go get an extra coffee or something like that, I say, today I'm going to get the 92%.

45:49I'm going to get the premium. Right, exactly. And that will do exactly no good. The car won't appreciate it. Go buy a better bottle of olive oil, you know? So that's a good example of what I call mental accounting. Yeah, and so what's mental accounting? Because I think it's so intuitive once you explain it. Mental accounting is sort of the way we keep track of stuff. There's a great video you can find online, Dustin Hoffman and Gene Hackman. And they're having this discussion. It's about back when they were starving actors. And Hackman tells this story about going to, he calls him Dusty, going to Dusty's apartment in Pasadena.

46:34And Hoffman says he needs some money. Can he loan him some money? And then Hackman goes into the kitchen and he says, hey, you don't need any money. There's these jars in your kitchen and they've got money in them. Why do you need money? And Hoffman says, yeah, but there's no money in the food jar. Right? So that is mental accounting. Now, I should say budgeting per se is not stupid. Making sure that you have enough money to pay the rent each month, that's smart. And in fact, creating the equivalent of those jars can be helpful. But spending the gas windfall on gas, that's stupid. But we can harness these biases also for good.

47:24You mentioned before the example of the tool you were using to get people to save more. And this is another spot where you were able to use people's mental accounts to do better a little bit too. using people's raises, for example, to get them to save a little bit more? Explain what you did in that program. Yeah. So I mentioned before that the first problem we had to solve was getting people to sign up. Then the second problem was getting them to put more money in. And the trick there was another one of my former students, Shlomo Ben-Artsy and I created a program we called Save More Tomorrow. And this goes back to what we were talking about before, because tomorrow...

48:03Far away, I'm happy to say Lori's going to be a great saver tomorrow. Right. So we would go to people and say, how about if you increase your saving contribution when you get your next raise? All right. So that's combining two of the things. So first of all, it's tomorrow, right? You know, it's in January when I get the raise. So sure. And I'm going to have more money. So I'll take some of that new money and I'll save that. And that program, in the first company we tried it, we tripled saving rates. Wow. That has created billions and billions of dollars in savings around the world. And this kind of fits with the ideas we've been talking about for so many of these other anomalies, right?

48:49Which is that mental accounting in some contexts looks sort of silly when you're just kind of spending your gas budget on higher priced gas just because you can. But you can also use mental accounting to do things that make you happier, right? You can think of the account of, oh, I'm going to get this future raise. That's not allocated for you. So I can put that into savings. I feel like I do this all the time when the so-called pain of paying is kind of high. Like I want to do something, but it feels sort of luxurious. If I take some random windfall I get, say I get an extra honorarium from a talk I wasn't expecting, I put that towards the stuff that normally I'd feel a little bit embarrassed about getting.

49:24And then that makes me feel not so bad. That's like a happiness hack that I use for mental accounting all the time. I'll tell you a funny story about my daughter, my daughter Maggie, who has been raised by a behavioral economist, right? She lives in Rhode Island, and one of her neighbors grew into being a Major League Baseball pitcher playing for the Mets. and I noticed the Mets were going to have a game in which this kid was going to be pitching. And so I called Maggie and said, hey, would you want to go to that game? I'll treat you to two tickets. And she said, okay, great. So this game was like in another day and a half.

50:03So we had to act fast. So I look online, I send her a link and say, look, Mag, you can get what looked like pretty nice tickets for$300 each. Buy the ones you want. I'll send you$1 ,000 and go have fun. And she texts me back and says, LOL, this is just like in your book. If you send me$1 ,000, I'm not going to use it on going to a baseball game. All right, so now we get put with my final irrationality that I think matters for happiness, which is the problem that we don't always know what we're going to like in the future. Alex, in the book, you use the so-called hungry shopper example. What's that?

50:46Alex Imas:Well, I think everybody's kind of probably familiar with this one. You shouldn't shop on an empty stomach because everything feels like it's going to be really good. And you fill your grocery cart with all of these delicious looking things. You go home, you eat dinner, and then you're like, why did I buy 17 different types of potato chips? And it's the idea that you can't really accurately imagine what you're going to be like and what you're going to want in the future. So if I'm hungry, you kind of think I'm always going to be hungry. I'm always going to want these things. You're going to fill your grocery cart with those things.

51:19Alex Imas:And then all of a sudden you eat and your house is filled with stuff you don't want, especially, you know, stuff you really don't want, like chips and other sorts of unhealthy things. It's this idea that we started perspective taking only it's not perspective taking with respect to other people's perspective taking with respect to what you're going to be like in the future. So people struggle with both. In some ways, it makes sense that we struggle with both when it comes to like hunger, right? It's hard to kind of imagine a different state that you're in. But we see these kinds of effects more broadly than like what's happening in the grocery store.

51:51Alex, tell me the example of the effect of a person's weather in the present day on their car purchases.

51:57Alex Imas:Yeah, so this is by our colleague Devin Pope and his co-authors. They basically looked at data. This is, again, going into this kind of revolution in behavioral economics. We started out with these experiments with college students. And now most of the results that we're seeing are with data, millions of car purchases. They take this database of what sort of cars people are buying and when. And they find that when it's sunny, people are a lot more likely to buy a convertible. And the funny thing is, is that, you know, if you're in Minnesota, you're on that one sunny day, June 7th. Yeah, you all lived in Chicago.

52:30We know the one sunny day in Chicago.

52:33Alex Imas:And, you know, people are buying these convertibles and they're they're going out. They're happily driving off the lot. And then, you know, the rest of the year starts and they're like, oh, crap. And the idea is that when it's sunny, you kind of imagine yourself wind flowing through your hair, driving down the highway. And it's really hard for you to imagine, wait, it's going to snow tomorrow, probably. And I'm going to have to close it up and it's just going to be kind of a windy, cold car. And then similarly, you know, when it's a cold day, people are really not likely to buy convertibles because they can't imagine the sunny day where they're actually going to enjoy it.

53:10Danny Kahneman, my mentor, coined the phrase the focusing illusion. Like nothing is as important as the thing you're thinking about right now. And so this is a big problem, right, because we need our predictions to make decisions about the kinds of things that we're going to engage with in the future that are going to make us happy. and it seems like this focusing illusion really messes us up, right? Whatever our attention is focused on, we start thinking about that and we ignore all the other stuff. So how can we do better? Alex, any advice for how we can kind of notice what we're gonna like in the future a little bit better and maybe open up our narrow attention?

53:47Alex Imas:Yeah, so I have some work on this myself. I mean, the kind of easy advice is just to think about it for longer. People become a lot better calibrated just by giving them what we call a waiting period. And these waiting periods are actually not something we invented, as you probably know. Waiting periods are all over the place. Many states have them as part of kind of gun laws. The idea is that if I'm in a hot state, I can't imagine what it's gonna feel like when I'm in a cold state. If I'm in a hot state, I'm angry at somebody. I go out there and buy a gun and do something really stupid that I'm gonna regret.

54:21Alex Imas:So states impose a waiting period to kind of simulate like, let me think about it for a little longer and then maybe I won't need it. It's there for marriages too, right? Somebody meets somebody at a bar and is like, you're the love of my life, let's go. And it's like, wait a second, wait, think about it for a little bit. And this same sort of very simple intervention, we found this in careful experimental tests, allows you to kind of simulate what you're gonna feel like in the future a lot more accurately. And so it seems like there are two pieces of advice there when you're making a big life decision, right?

54:52One is give your attention a moment to catch up with all the stuff it's not currently paying attention to. And the other piece of advice is just like, when in doubt, give it a little time. Because over time, more stuff will reveal. And whatever state you're in now, if that's hungry, sitting out in the sunshine, thinking you want a convertible, you might revert to a different state, which might be more of a baseline for how you're going to feel in the future. You know, and there's one other extension of that. When I'm talking to students about career choices, the mistake I find people make all the time is they decide a career based on what they like to study in school.

55:29And I always say, no, think about what you can imagine doing every day for the rest of your life. And that may not be the same thing. Go, you know, shadow somebody for two weeks. See if that seems like that's exciting. I think there are lots of careers that sound good until you think about doing it every day. Well, Richard, I'm so glad that what you decided to do every day for the rest of your life was to be a behavioral economist, because it's been so fun to learn about these anomalies from you through the years. It was fun to read this book back in the late 90s, and it was even more fun to read it new in 2025 when we have all of Alex's new insights there.

56:11So everyone should go out and check out The Winner's Curse. There's so many cool anomalies that we didn't get a chance to go into. But Richard and Alex, thanks so much for being on the show. Thank you. Thanks, Lori. Great to see you. So it seems humans are not Vulcans. We don't always act rationally. But as these six anomalies show, understanding the irrational quirks of our species can help us live richer, happier lives in ways that I think pure logic may not have predicted. The new and improved version of The Winner's Curse is out in October, and it's available for pre-order now. Next time on The Happiness Lab, we'll hear about another of my favorite books of 2025.

56:49One that's also from a scholar trained in economics and who, like Richard Thaler, also wants to break the rules. But her rule breaking involves teaching us why we should all be working a bit less. All that next time on The Happiness Lab with me, Dr. Laurie Santos.

57:10This is Mandy Woodruff-Santos from Brown Ambition. When you think about discovering small brands, what store pops into your mind? Well, it should be Walmart. Seriously. Walmart has thousands of small brands, and they're all in one place. Just go online or in-store, discover, and shop. It could not be easier. Every one of these brands has a real story and real people behind it. They're true American success stories. And you can find them all at Walmart. Discover thousands of small brands at walmart.com today. Think about it. When it comes to your own food, you can walk into a restaurant, see what's being made, and know exactly what you're getting.

57:49But with dog food, most brands keep that completely hidden. Just Food for Dogs does the opposite. They've built their entire brand around open kitchens. You can actually walk in and watch them prepare your dog's meals with real human-grade ingredients like chicken, beef, carrots, and peas cooked right there in front of you. No mystery, no behind-the-scenes you're not allowed to see. That kind of transparency is rare in the pet food world. And it's a big reason they've become the number one vet-recommended fresh dog food, earning trust from pet parents who want to feel confident in what they're feeding.

58:24When a brand is willing to show you exactly how your dog's food is made, it says a lot about the care, quality, and standards behind every meal they produce. Nothing to hide, everything to love.

58:35Alex Imas:Go to justfoodfordogs.com and get 50 % off your first order.

59:11This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.