In short
This episode of BBC World Service’s History Hour focuses on Manchester’s role in major social and political change, plus two art and culture stories tied to wider global history.
Guests and backgrounds
Matt Pintus (2022) interviews Lisa Iyagon, daughter of Phil Magbotywon, founder of the Reno nightclub (opened 1962). Kath McDermott (BBC Six Music producer and Manchester DJ) discusses the Reno’s impact on Manchester’s music scene. Rena Stanton-Sharma (2025) uses archive recordings featuring artist Harold Riley, who painted Nelson Mandela. Alex Last (2020) uses archives including ANC activist and writer Peter Abrahams on the 1945 Fifth Pan-African Congress in Manchester. Jill Kersley and Simon Watts provide additional historical segments; Timo Callaghan interviews Maggie Haroon, Manchester’s first female Premier League football photographer.
Key claims and examples
The Reno was racially inclusive during discrimination, with Phil Magbotywon recalling a “monkeys” insult and later police harassment of Moss Side; the club closed in 1986 after tensions and redevelopment. Harold Riley portrayed Mandela after six sittings (final in 2002), aiming to capture Mandela’s humility and love; the portrait was unveiled in 2005 and raised over $1 million. The 1945 Pan-African Congress (Chawton Town Hall) advanced decolonisation plans, emphasizing grassroots strikes and boycotts. Manchester also pioneered computing with Baby (first stored-program computer, 1948) and shaped “right to roam” via the 1932 Kinder Scout mass trespass.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOIntroduction to History Hour
0:57 to 1:44
Max Pearson introduces the topics of Manchester's social and cultural history.
“Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.”
The Reno Nightclub's Legacy
1:44 to 3:07
Discussion about the importance of the Reno nightclub in Manchester's history.
“Personal memories as featured on Witness History.”
Phil Mogbatiwan's Journey
3:07 to 6:45
The story of Phil Mogbatiwan, his experiences with racism, and the opening of the Reno.
“And we're going to start in a nightclub which plays an important role in Manchester's cultural and social history.”
Cultural Significance of the Reno
6:45 to 11:28
Exploration of the Reno's role in providing a safe space for diverse communities.
“Mainly it was black, but there was a really nice mix of a lot of white women.”
The Reno's Impact on Music
11:28 to 11:59
Discussion on how the Reno influenced Manchester's music scene and legacy.
“He did build a really good vision that was everything he wanted it to be.”
Manchester's Cultural Evolution
11:59 to 14:00
Kath McDermott discusses the cultural diversity and evolution of Manchester's music scene.
“Six Music and has for many years been a Manchester DJ in a variety of different clubs and Kath is with us now.”
Manchester: A Cultural Melting Pot
14:00 to 16:30
Explore how Manchester's diverse population has shaped its music and culture.
“We also have a huge student population in Manchester.”
Harold Riley: Portraits and Perceptions
16:30 to 19:26
Learn about artist Harold Riley's experiences capturing Nelson Mandela's essence.
“Harold Riley was an acclaimed painter who captured the essence of Greater Manchester from daily scenes to sporting events, but he's also known for his portraits.”
Harold Riley's Artistic Journey
19:26 to 22:34
Discover Harold Riley's early life, influences, and his love for football and art.
“I mean, the first thing is he was charismatic, unbelievably charismatic.”
Legacy and Impact of Riley's Art
22:34 to 24:39
Examine the significance of Harold Riley's contributions to art and charity.
“Sport was the one place where everybody came together, you know, where you would have a man from the pit standing next to a clergyman, standing next to a businessman, standing next to a bus driver.”
Show all 20 chapters
Legacy and Impact of Riley's Art
24:43 to 25:17
Examine the significance of Harold Riley's contributions to art and charity.
“That's what an artisan can do, an illustrator.”
Legacy and Impact of Riley's Art
25:21 to 25:50
Examine the significance of Harold Riley's contributions to art and charity.
“Fall flavours are waiting for you at Whole Foods Market.”
Manchester's Role in Decolonization
25:50 to 28:01
Learn about Manchester's central role in the 5th Pan-African Congress.
“What if I told you that most of history's underwear wasn't remotely close to the underwear you're wearing right now?”
The Fifth Pan-African Congress: Goals and Aspirations
28:01 to 33:30
Learn about the significance and objectives of the Fifth Pan-African Congress held in 1945.
“They were there to discuss common problems, racism, discrimination, economic inequality, and how to win independence for the colonies.”
The Birth of the Computer: Manchester's Innovation
33:31 to 36:28
Explore the development of the first stored-program computer, known as Baby, at Manchester University.
“Writing letters and petitions wasn't going to achieve it.”
Rebuilding Baby: A Technological Revival
36:29 to 42:00
Discover the restoration of Baby, the first electronic computer, and its historical significance.
“Tom Kilburn, along with Geoff Tootle, relocated to work with Sir Freddie's team at the university, following their top-secret work developing radar during the Second World War.”
The Legacy of Baby: The First Electronic Brain
42:00 to 43:30
Learn about the historical significance of Baby, the first electronic computer, and its modern-day replica.
“And there must be tens of thousands of computers in the country now, of course.”
The Kinder Scout Mass Trespass of 1932
43:30 to 52:41
Discover the story behind the mass trespass at Kinder Scout that shaped access rights in the UK.
“from music and art to the ending of racist colonisation and the beginning of the modern world.”
Maggie Haroon: Breaking Barriers in Sports Photography
52:41 to 56:00
Explore the journey of Maggie Haroon, the first female football photographer in the Premier League.
“And we can round off this week's celebration of Manchester's past with a sporting witness.”
Maggie's Journey as a Football Photographer
56:00 to 1:01:41
Learn about Maggie's experiences as a pioneering female football photographer and her notable encounters.
“You had to be what they call a proper photographer.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
0:30And Spice Up Fall at Whole Foods Market. You might drink it every day, but did you know that the history of tea is steeped in skullduggery, colonialism and industrial espionage? I'm Greg Jenner, host of You're Dead to Me. We're the comedy show that takes history seriously. And in our latest episode, we spill the tea on tea. Join us to unpack the ancient Chinese origins of the drink and find out how it became the national drink of modern Britain. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.
1:27a tiny ant compared to the immensity of the universe. Witness History from the BBC World Service. Listen now. Search for Witness History wherever you get your BBC podcasts.
1:43Hello and welcome to the History Hour from the BBC World Service with me, Max Pearson. Personal memories as featured on Witness History. It's the past brought to life by those who were there. This week, Manchester takes centre stage as we relive key events from the city's social, political and cultural past, including the Manchester artist who painted one of the best known portraits of Nelson Mandela. So I said, well, just sit there and talk to me. Let's talk about whatever you want. And I'll make drawings. I made a whole series of drawings. And from those drawings, I then put together the picture.
2:18Plus how a 1945 gathering in Manchester paved the way for the decolonisation of Africa. I was seeing the possibility of a free continent and remember all of Africa still belonged to the white people. And how Manchester workers fought for the right to enjoy the countryside in the 1930s. There were always these keepers sending you back. They had sticks and I know in a number of occasions I'd seen a shotgun leaning around. Now, the talented and dedicated people who produce these programmes for Witness History on the BBC World Service happen to be based in the Manchester area. And since Britain's new Prime Minister, Andy Burnham, has placed his number 10 in the north in Manchester, each of the items this week relates to that city's history.
3:07And we're going to start in a nightclub which plays an important role in Manchester's cultural and social history. The Reno was opened in 1962, an era when it was not unusual for black people in Britain to face discrimination. The club became famous for being racially inclusive. Matt Pintus has the story, and you won't be surprised to learn that this item contains descriptions of racial discrimination. Manchester, England, 1960. Phil Mogbatiwan is exploring the inner city neighbourhood of Moss Side. He was looking at the premises of the Reno. He said, in opposite, there was a big pub on the corner with glittering lights.
3:48That's Lisa, Phil's daughter. He went into the pub and asked for a Guinness, and the barman said, we don't serve monkeys in here. So my dad said, I'm not a monkey, what's that supposed to mean? And he pointed to a large wooden barrel at the side of the bar that people were throwing dead ends of the pints in, and he said to my dad, monkeys drink out of there. My dad said, one day I will have a bar, I will remind you of this. So he said, whatever, he left. Many years later, he managed to get a liquor licence, opened the Reno and the barman came over, probably wanted to see what was going on and he was like, yeah, can I get a red stripe?
4:29So my dad said, you don't remember me? So he said, no, I've never met you. So he said, yeah, I came in your place, asked for a drink. this is what you told me. He said, and the man was really embarrassed and said, I'm so sorry, don't know why I said that to you, it's wrong, can you forgive me? And my dad said, yes, everybody's entitled to make a mistake. Phil Magbotywon was born in Lagos, Nigeria in 1916. The country was still under British rule, and from a young age, Phil dreamed about moving to England. And he didn't waste any time. He'd obviously watched his mum working very hard, She just did her normal duties, what most Nigerian women did, which was doing their own crops and not really being able to make anything extra.
5:16So when he was 13, he decided he was going to leave and try and come to England. He used to hang around at the ships and he thought the opportunity is to go on a ship and try and make his way here. So he did that.
5:33Phil realised his dream and opened the Reno in 1962. initially as a place for sailors to get a bed for the night. Named after the gambling metropolis in Nevada, USA, the Reno soon morphed into a thriving Funk and Soul club, regularly packed out with excited teenagers looking to dance. At that time, it was notoriously difficult for black people to get into many of the city centre nightclubs, and the Reno offered a safe environment where people could forget all their troubles. I think the Reno was a great destination for everyone because it was a safe place, no matter what colour you were. Back in them days, if you was black, I think if you went in town, if there wasn't so many black people in the place you was in, there was the opportunity for you to be beaten up because there is only one or two of you, whereas the Reno, yeah, you're definitely going to be safe because there was no segregation of you shouldn't be or you should be here.
6:33everyone was welcome there. The Reno was a particularly important place for people from mixed heritage backgrounds. Phil himself married a white woman and had eight children, including his youngest, Lisa. Mainly it was black, but there was a really nice mix of a lot of white women. There was quite a few Asians and then obviously a lot of mixed culture coming from the marriages of black men with white women. Other places you would go, I think they would be ridiculed, especially the mixed couples would be made to feel uncomfortable, whereas anybody who went down there would have a good time and would feel welcome.
7:14Nobody would feel like the minority because it was very, very mixed. Going to the Reno was the hottest ticket in town, so much so that in 1976, the great Muhammad Ali decided to pay it a visit. My dad had previously gone to Montreal to see Muhammad Ali fight. A year, maybe 18 months later, Muhammad Ali came to the club. My dad had gave him his address and his number, and he came there to visit him and brought him a gift, which was a gold boxing glove that Muhammad Ali had received for one of his fights. And Ali wasn't alone in his fondness for the Reno. Lisa remembers reggae superstar Bob Marley also turning up to the club that year.
7:58One day my brother came and said, we're going to go and see Bob Marley. So I was like, see Bob Marley where's? He was like, it's a surprise. And he was doing an impromptu concert. So when we got there, he was on the grass playing football with quite a few people and it was like a big old church and we was at the doorway. So as he ran past, he stood on my foot.
8:27I actually thought it was funny because at least Bob Marley stood on my foot. But then he come running back and hugged me really tight. He was like, I'm so sorry I stood on your foot. I didn't mean to do that. But while he was hugging me, I remember thinking that his hair smelled like the washing when my mum would put the washing out and it hadn't dried yet. And I got told that he came to the Reno. I got told he'd come in that night, which he obviously would have done. He was in Manchester. The Reno wasn't without its troubles. It stayed open into the early hours of the morning and this attracted attention from the police.
8:59Them days the police was very harassing to people and very discriminative, well, with black people. When I was at home, the police would come. They would never be in uniform, it was always just suits. So they would ask for my dad and it was always by the way he would greet them that I would know it was police because he would always call them, sir, oh, how have you been? Come in straight away and then he would ask me to go make them drinks. He'd come in the kitchen and he'd say, I can't stand these stinking people, but I have to play this game. By 1981, the relationship between the police and the black population of Mossside was at an all-time low.
9:37The rioting in Mossside was brief, but such was the legacy of tension and bitterness left after just two nights of disorder that Greater Manchester Council decided a speedy inquiry was essential if peace was to be restored to the community. After the riots, it was never the same for the Reno. The authorities seemingly wanted to close it down. It wasn't long after that that they forced my dad to close the Reno. They made an excuse. There was extending Princess Road, which, granted, they can say they've extended it. I don't know how many metres. It wasn't necessary, and it did get extended a long, long time after that.
10:16The Reno shut its doors forever in 1986 and the building was demolished. Phil's dream was over. Music is a stress reliever for everybody. So, yeah, to take away venues where music's being played and black people was able to relax and let go of all the worries what the race wars was causing is going to then cause a lot more tension. Phil ran a few more bars, but nothing quite ever replicated the success of the Reno, as Moss Side became plagued by gang violence. He died in 2011. In 2017, a group of volunteers organised an archaeological excavation of the Reno, and artefacts from the club were made available to the public at one of Manchester's biggest museums.
11:07Speaking from the site of the Reno in Moss Side, Lisa says she's still immensely proud of what her dad achieved. So this is a spot where the Reno used to be. It's hard to believe because it's just wasteland now. With a billboard, I think my dad was quite upset to see it demolished. It was his legacy. He did build a really good vision that was everything he wanted it to be. And I think everybody else enjoyed what he created. I certainly did and I'm really proud of him. That was Lisa Iyagon, the daughter of Phil Magbottywan, who founded the Reno Nightclub in 1962. She was speaking to Matt Pintus in 2022.
11:50Manchester Today is known around the world for its music scene, largely thanks to live music venues, pubs and clubs like the Reno. Kath McDermott is a producer at the BBC's dedicated contemporary music channel, Six Music and has for many years been a Manchester DJ in a variety of different clubs and Kath is with us now. So how important was the Reno in the sort of broad scale of the evolution of Manchester music scene? It's hard to underestimate the legacy of the Reno. I think it was crucially important not only for that community which was you know very much on the back foot at that point dealing with racism, especially from Greater Manchester Police, but also just in terms of bringing together different communities, especially the mixed-race community, who were quite underserved at that time.
12:41I think the music that was playing there was incredible. I was too young to go to the original Reno, but I did go to the reunion about 10 years ago. Persian was a really influential DJ and was going to a record shop called Spin In to get US soul imports that were coming over. So it was very fresh music. And the reunion was just incredible experience to be there with not only hearing the music and the DJs, but seeing the people that had gone there just really dancing and there with their kids as well. It was great. It's important to sort of stress that Manchester is a, and always has been a culturally and racially diverse place, which would have fed into the sorts of characters and indeed the music that you've just referenced.
13:29Absolutely. Manchester over the years has embraced so many different communities coming into the city from obviously the Windrush generation and subsequent generations from South Asia. And that has also fed into the cultural ecology of the city. So there are various DJs and promoters like Bauraj Samre of South Asian Heritage, Reena Ladybeige, who puts on not-for-profit parties in the city. We also have a huge student population in Manchester. A lot of those people come and stay and live and contribute to the city, large Chinese community etc and also we're we've become a bit of a hub for for queer people from across the UK and across the world who feel like this is a safe city every layer of that influx has led to the cultural developments of the city yeah you're talking about a cultural melting pot almost and was that reflected in the music that came out of Manchester in the 1960s and onwards, not just the DJing, but the actual music being created.
14:43Yeah, I think there's definitely layers of it. And you can hear a sort of symbiosis of different elements, not just from around the world, but also joining together guitars and dance music, creating that sort of very famous Manchester sound that was purveyed by Happy Mondays and the Stone Roses. and you know we're the city that embraced northern Seoul first so we were playing black underground dance music from the states in our city's clubs from the 60s onwards and we have a lot of similarities with different communities abroad and we bring together their music and enjoy it and create something new from it.
15:30Manchester embraced global influences took in global influences. Has it gone the other way? Has Manchester's music spread around the world influenced other musicians? Yeah, Manchester's sighted regularly and working in new music, I can hear its influence. It comes back to us, I think, especially with dance music. We had artists like New Order who were creating some of the earliest electronic music that was then exported to cities like Detroit and Chicago, consumed by black community there, who then developed house and techno music, which we then understood because we had that experience of electronic music.
16:11And so it's continually in a cycle. And there's so many young indie bands now that would cite bands like the Stone Roses as being crucially important, let alone bands such as Oasis. That's Kath McDermott from BBC Six Music. From Manchester music to the region's art history next. Harold Riley was an acclaimed painter who captured the essence of Greater Manchester from daily scenes to sporting events, but he's also known for his portraits. One of the most celebrated is the one he painted of Nelson Mandela. In 2025, Rena Stanton-Sharma dived into archive recordings to tell the story of how that came about.
16:54The thing about Nelson Mandela that really was, if you like, the essence of him was humility. I painted a lot of people, painted a few pokes, a few presidents. I'll tell you something, humility is a wonderful, wonderful essence in person. It's the soul of a person. I mean, President Kennedy, for instance, he wasn't big on humility. I mean, he had many other things. He was a wonderful man, handsome man. But Nelson Nelson Mandela, when I went to see him on one occasion, Zelda, his secretary, said, oh, Mr. Riley's here. You remember Mr. Riley? He said, oh, yes. Does he remember me, do you think? I mean, it was that kind of thing that he wanted to put you at ease.
17:35That's the English artist Harold Riley speaking to a BBC programme that paid tribute to Nelson Mandela shortly after he died in 2013. He described the capturing on canvas of the first black president of South Africa as one of the greatest experiences of his life. You have to, if you're doing something, somebody like one of the greatest men that has ever lived, you must in fact make it not just iconic, but you must in fact make it real. I don't know about politics. I don't know about a lot of things to do with the ins and outs of his political life. But what I do know is what I tried to find out about him as a man.
18:16And what I tried to find out and what I did find was that he instinctively had love. He had kindness and love in him and he loved life, he loved people. He liked to joke, he liked to laugh, but somehow or another there was always in him the feeling that he was believable. You know, that's important. You're always at ease with someone you believe. The painting, In Earthy Yellows and Greens, shows Mandela with grey hair reclined on an armchair looking relaxed and reading his newspaper in front of a hilly landscape and mountain. The African National Congress leader sat for Harold six times in Cape Town and Johannesburg over 18 months and the final sitting was held in 2002.
19:06He told the BBC's Nicky Campbell about how they got on. if you paint the kind of traditional portrait i do that is a relationship between a person and yourself when you're looking at them talking to them so he sat easily and he said what do you want me to do um because i've done it before so i said well just sit there and and talk to me let's talk about whatever you want and i'll make drawings submit a whole series of drawings and from those drawings i then put together the picture but in the course of doing the drawings various things occurred and various realizations about him. I mean, the first thing is he was charismatic, unbelievably charismatic.
19:47And you can't paint charisma. So the point is you've got to find symbols which you can put into a picture, which would actually say something in a way that would, if you like, suggest humility. He, for instance, wanted to talk about people that I'd painted, He'd asked me if I'd ever painted Joe Lewis, for instance. Joe Lewis, the heavyweight boxer, was somebody he actually idolised. He loved the Brown Bomber, didn't he? Oh, he did, yeah. And he said, did you ever see him, Mr. Ratt? I said, yeah, I did. I saw him in Las Vegas sitting outside a night, a casino, as a host, inviting people in. And he said, what was he like?
20:24I said, he had great dignity. Harold Riley was born in 1934 in Salford, in the north-west of England, and sold his first painting at just 11 years old. He was friends with fellow painter Ellis Lowry, who grew up in the city and was best known for his white and brown scenes of industrial landscapes and mills and stick-like figures. Harold recalled his first sale when he spoke to the BBC's Sam Walker in 2013. Lowry came to Southwick Grammar School where I was and we had an exhibition, a school exhibition of drawings and paintings. and he saw a picture of mine of the railway bridge at Stott Lane in Salford and he thought it was very good and suggested I came with him.
21:12We went to the City Art Gallery and the director at the time was a man called Frape and he was the man who collected all the lowries for the city and he said to Mr Frape, Oh, I think this is very good and I think this young man is very good. He said, I think you should buy it. and Mr Freight said, well, how much does he want for it? What did you ask for? I didn't ask for anything. Larry governed the whole thing. He said, 30 shillings, sir. So he said, 30 shillings? All right, 30 shillings. So I got 30 shillings there and then and I went straight to the co-op at Pendleton Church and bought a plaid shirt.
21:51That's roughly$20 today. Not bad for an 11-year-old. Harold's father was a pianist and both his grandfather and great-grandfather were painters. He studied at the Slade School of Fine Art in London before travelling to Italy and Spain for postgraduate courses. But he'd always returned to Salford, a largely working-class area, where he documented what he perceived to be a disappearing way of life through sketches, photographs and paintings. Although his passion for art was clear from a young age, he was also a budding footballer as a teenager and attracted the attention of a Manchester United scout.
22:32He incorporated his love of the game into his life as an artist, capturing players and fans, as he told another BBC programme. Sport was the one place where everybody came together, you know, where you would have a man from the pit standing next to a clergyman, standing next to a businessman, standing next to a bus driver. And it didn't matter about the religion, it didn't matter about what they earned, they stood together. There was no other system where that happened. And I've always felt that if I go and sit on the touchline at Old Trafford, which I've done for nearly 50 years now, and made drawings, I've experienced something, a kind of theatre of movement and expression, which has stimulated me and excited me.
23:14I mean, as Degas went to the ballet, I went to the football match. Harold was given a special award in 2017, and that came with some unusual privileges. There are few entitled to do this. The artist Harold Riley is now one of them. A freeman of Salford has the right to run sheep wherever he wants. It's a privilege dating back to medieval times, but laced with modern meaning. In this television clip from ITV News, you can see an elderly Harold being pushed in his wheelchair down the street in a parade with musicians and a sword in his hand. And in front of him, there's a flock of sheep. Riley is Salford born and bred and has for 70 years been documenting the changing face of his city.
24:05His reputation is worldwide. As well as painting popes and presidents, he was also commissioned to paint members of the British royal family. But it's his portrait of Mandela which remains one of his most significant commissions. It was unveiled in 2005 and raised over$1 million for South African children's charities at an auction held at the Rockefeller Centre in New York. It was reportedly bought by a group of Hollywood celebrities.
24:38Most people think a portrait is an attempt to make something look like somebody else. That's what an artisan can do, an illustrator. What a portrait really is about is how the artist feels about the person he's painting. I felt with Nelson Mandela an element of one of the most important things which art is really all about, and that's love. He had love in him. He had love for life. He had love for people. Harold Riley, who died in 2023 at the age of 88, speaking in an archive recording brought to us by Rena Stanton-Sharmer. And you can see a photo of Harold Riley, alongside his famous portrait of Nelson Mandela, on our website.
25:17Go to bbc.com slash witnesshistory. Fall flavours are waiting for you at Whole Foods Market. Cozy pics all through the store, like maple leaf cookies from 365 brand. Swing by the bakery for pumpkin cheesecake, here for a limited time, and pumpkin turmeric bread freshly baked every single day. Sip the season with 365 brand cinnamon spice coffee and pumpkin spice creamer. While you still can, spice up fall at Whole Foods Market. What if I told you that most of history's underwear wasn't remotely close to the underwear you're wearing right now? Hi, I'm Greg Jenner, host of the You're Dead to Me podcast, and we're back with a brand new season.
26:00And if you're a fan of fashion trends of the past, you'll love our newest episode on the history of underwear. We explore how our underwear has changed throughout history and whether TV depictions of Regency-era ladies in their lacy underwear are truly accurate. Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.
26:25Still to come, Manchester's central role in the early development of computers. the workers who fought for the right to roam in the countryside in the 1930s and the Manchester sports photographer who was the first woman to focus her camera on the English Premier League. I was never taken seriously. If anything went wrong, according to the stewards and the police, I was always picked on. But before that, we have the story of how Manchester played a significant role in the eventual decolonisation of Africa. It was in 1945 that prominent black activists, intellectuals and trade union leaders from around the world travelled to the city to attend a pivotal meeting.
27:07In 2020, Alex Last went through archive recordings, including an interview with the late African National Congress activist and writer Peter Abrams, to tell the story. I was in a dream. I was seeing something I had not thought of before. I was seeing the possibility of a free continent and remember all of Africa still belonged to the white people. It wasn't until then, that Pan-African Congress, that I saw the way ahead clearly and knew one day all of Africa would be free. Abrahams was one of around 200 people, many from Africa and the Caribbean, who'd gathered to attend the 5th Pan-African Congress, being held in a town hall in Chawton, Manchester, just months after the end of the Second World War.
Read the full transcript
28:01They were there to discuss common problems, racism, discrimination, economic inequality, and how to win independence for the colonies. The world had just gone through a major war, a war against fascism in which people from Africa, the Caribbean and elsewhere had contributed their lives for self-determination against racism and the ideologies of racism. And so there was great anticipation about this new world dawning. Professor Hakim Adi from Chichester University is a historian and the author of a book about the Fifth Pan-African Congress. And Africans, people of African heritage, wanted to have their own say, present their demands, as it were, their aspirations for the future.
28:42So that was extremely important. The list of delegates included a veritable who's who of prominent black activists, writers and thinkers, including some young men who would become future leaders of independent Africa. The most famous people who were there were Kwame Nkrumah, who obviously went on to lead Gold Coast, now Ghana, to independence in 1957. He had recently arrived to study in Britain. Jomo Kenyatta, who became the first Prime Minister and then President of Kenya, he was part of the Congress. Then you have somebody like Isaac Wallace Johnson, Sierra Leonean, very, very active as a Labour trade union organiser throughout West Africa.
29:22Amy Ashwood Garvey, the first wife of Marcus Garvey, who'd been based in Britain since the 1920s, chaired some of the sessions, and the famous African-American activist, academic writer, W.E.B. Du Bois. The first four congresses had all been organised by W.E.B. Du Bois, who was seen by many as the father of the modern Pan-African movement. He was one of the great scholars of the United States. He was a great sociologist. He was a very dapper man. He had a van Dyck beard, a delicate intellectual. Remember, this is the man who, at the beginning of the 20th century, said the problem of the 20th century is the problem of a color line, the problem of the relations between the lighter and darker races of mankind.
30:15But in 1945, the Fifth Pan-African Congress was organised not by Du Bois. It was organised by a younger group, the Manchester-based Pan-African Federation. One of the key players was George Padmore, the Trinidadian intellectual, activist and former communist. Padmore was the most disciplined person I ever knew. Remrod straight. He had no sympathy for human weakness, for human foibles. Padmore had a different vision for this meeting. He wanted more grassroots involvement. And crucially, earlier in 1945, Britain had hosted the first meeting of the World Federation of Trade Unions, which had brought to the country workers' representatives from across the world, including the British colonies.
31:02Padmore and his friends invited them along. The organisers said, we are having a different kind of congress. The workers and farmers are the great majority of people in the colonies, So we want to have a Congress based around their representatives. We no longer need doctors and lawyers and professors and so on to tell us what to do. The workers themselves can articulate their own views. So in October, delegates gathered in Manchester and walked into the town hall in Chalton. On the walls were the flags of Haiti, Liberia and Ethiopia, and there were slogans too. Such things as oppressed people of the world unite.
31:40down with anti-Semitism. Arabs and Jews unite against British imperialism, down with Jim Crow, down with the color bar. Labour in the white skin cannot emancipate itself while labour in the black skin is enslaved. What that shows to us is the internationalist politics of this Congress. During the week-long meeting, delegates heard reports of the situation on the ground around the world, detailing the social and economic injustice of the colonial system and the scale of racial discrimination, not just in the colonies, but also in Britain and America. And crucially, at the meeting, there was a radical call to action, a plan to organise to end colonialism and change the post-war world.
32:26The difference in 1945 was that they said that they'd been patient, but they would be patient no longer. We're not just appealing to the colonial powers to end colonial rule. We will use false to end it, if necessary. The background to all this is black identity had been so distorted by slavery, colonial occupation. We had no sense of self, one of the key problems. And it came out in the fifth Pan-African Congress that we had to rediscover ourselves, find out who we are, what we are, and not who we are told we are. You know, it's much easier to take chains of bodies than it is to take invisible shackles of mines.
33:10Lastly, and most importantly, perhaps, they said that the great force which will bring colonial rule to an end are the masses of the people, the workers and farmers, and that force needs to be organised. organized strikes, organized boycotts. That is what is going to be victorious and bring colonial rule to an end. Writing letters and petitions wasn't going to achieve it. And sure enough, grassroots organizations were key to the independent struggle, and Nkrumah was one of the first to put it into action. As local strikes and boycotts became central to the campaign which won independence for the Gold Coast, which became Ghana in 1957.
33:53But, says Peter Abrahams, many of the issues raised at the meeting were not resolved quite so quickly. The thing we underestimated, I think, was the importance of economic independence and how cleverly the ex-colonial powers would hold on to the economic control that empire had given them. Political emancipation, they've let go. Economic emancipation is a much harder thing. And now finally, in the 21st century, we are beginning to see that real freedom has these three facets to it. It's political, it's economic, it's psychic. The words of the late ANC activist Peter Abrams and Alex Last brought us the story of the highly influential Fifth Pan-African Congress held in Manchester in 1945.
34:53It was just three years later, in 1948, that Manchester played a central role in the evolution of the digital age. That was when a machine called Baby was born at the University of Manchester. It was a very early precursor to the modern computer. Here's Jill Kersley. Manchester University, where anyone who urgently wishes to know whether 2 to the power of 127 minus 1 is a prime number or not, can be given the answer by an electronic brain in 25 minutes instead of by a human brain in six months. And while you try and work out that calculation, here's more about that electronic brain, which is a very early computer.
35:35I've been looking through the archives to find out about this small-scale experimental machine, better known as BABY. In June 1948, the BABY became the first stored programme computer, meaning it was the first machine to work like the computers we have today. A team building it was led by Sir Freddie Williams. Although these machines can in fact do these complicated calculations at lightning speed, they can only do them because we explain to them how they should do them. We make them do them. Left to themselves, they wouldn't even have enough sense to come in and out of the rain. The world's first programmable computer shuddered into life at Manchester University in June 1948.
36:16It created a technological revolution. And it was a man in Manchester who wrote the world's first computer programme. It has been said of him that his mark is on every modern computer in the world today, and he's Professor Tom Kilburn. Tom Kilburn, along with Geoff Tootle, relocated to work with Sir Freddie's team at the university, following their top-secret work developing radar during the Second World War. Here's Tom talking to the BBC's Brian Redhead in 1981. Well, Freddie Williams invited me to come to continue to develop a memory system for a computer. About the middle of 1946, he had an idea for storing digits on cathode ray tube.
36:57The cathode ray tube is essentially like a television tube, but signals put in by an input are stored there. By December 1946, he stored one digit, one single binary digit. It didn't seem that storing just that one digit on the cathode ray tube was much of an achievement at the time, but this was to be the start of something big. By the end of 1947, the team was clear about what sort of computer they were going to build. Funding was limited, but Tom used to work for the telecommunications research establishment known as TRE. This was very useful. So I was able to draw on the stores of TRE, and by this mechanism we got cathode ray tubes and valves.
37:47So you were really just begging bits and pieces to build it? That's right, yes. With the permission of TRE, of course. Oh, of course. You weren't pinching this stuff. The computer they built was quite ugly, and it was huge. It filled a room that was just under 6 metres by 6 metres. As babies go, it doesn't really look that attractive. Three cathode ray tubes for eyes. It weighs over one and a half tonnes and stands seven foot high. But there could be no prouder parents than the Manchester scientists. That's the BBC's Maggie Philbin. Proud parent Tom remembers it wasn't particularly comfortable working in the room.
38:22It was fairly full of valve circuitry. So much so that, of course, we didn't have a luxury of air conditioning or anything. The temperature often got above 100. and it was quite unpleasant working in there when the room actually got full of equipment. Nor was it a thing of beauty, was it? No, it wasn't. It was completely exposed to the elements. In fact, in order to cool the room, we opened some windows and there was a sudden summer storm and the back of two or three racks was sprayed with water and that cost us about two or three weeks of rebuilding. Another scientist who worked with Tom on this hugely unattractive baby machine in the hot room was Jeff Tootle.
39:07The baby team built up the machine one unit at a time, making sure each unit worked before adding the next one. We would screw it into a post office rack and connect it up to all the other units and then start to find out why it wasn't working properly. We went on with this process of adding the units until we got to the stage when we'd made a computer. So they finally got the last unit in place. But would it work? We fed in a few binary numbers and switched it on. I can remember very, very clearly the day when the first computer worked. We'd been building up to this time. For several days we'd loaded the programme in, but there was always something wrong.
39:57And then as we approached one lunchtime, suddenly the thing worked. We saw the thing that'd done a computation. Geoff Tuttle and I rushed out to find Professor Williams and dragged him into the lab, and we sat there and saw it run again. There were great cheers, and it was very great excitement, actually. They'd done it. Baby was born. So let's go back to that complicated calculation that baby was asked to do. Is 2 to the power of 127 minus 1 a prime number or not? Setting the machine for this kind of problem takes a week. Then the brain is switched on and impulses passing to the computer make the actual calculation.
40:44The computer itself contains 1 ,500 valves. The brain at present is only in the experimental stage, the answer being read from a cathode ray tube. Later, an automatic keyboard will type the answer. As soon as the baby had demonstrated what was possible, the university developed it into a full-scale operational machine, the Manchester Mark I. I've been looking down on the control desk of our Mark I computing machine. I've been looking down on it because although these machines can do the quite fantastic things, they are really essentially simple-minded devices. The team who created the Mark I beat competitors in Harvard and Cambridge to build the first computer that could be programmed.
41:30This is the programme, written by Tom Kilburn, the world's first computer programmer. And a very important question. Now, what did the world think of this? I mean, people must have come, government people, other scientists, industrialists. Could they see the future? There were a very small number of people, relatively, who were interested in computers at that time. It was widely thought that two computers would serve the whole country. And there must be tens of thousands of computers in the country now, of course. In 1998, Baby hit the headlines once more. Now, it was nicknamed Baby by its creators at Manchester University.
42:15As the very first electronic brain to store a programme, it was the forerunner of all modern computers. And as our technology correspondent Christine McGirty discovered, Baby's been reborn. Putting the final touches to a machine that bears little resemblance to the computers we use today. just a jumble of wires and switches to the untrained eye but engineer Chris Burton has spent three years rebuilding this once groundbreaking computer using the same techniques as the inventors It was Tom Kilburn who wrote the first computer programme and keyed it in himself 50 years on he's been helping build the replica The replica a baby was built and is still on display at the Museum of Science and Industry in Manchester computers have changed the way we work the way we play the way we shop and the way we socialize and it all started with baby we knew that something exciting was going to happen but we thought of it in terms of scientific computation rather than the general explosion that's occurred in computers Jill Kirstie with the story of Baby, the forerunner of all computers, first broadcast in 2024.
43:29So Manchester has played a significant role in the history of so many aspects of our world, from music and art to the ending of racist colonisation and the beginning of the modern world. We have an example of the city's influence on how we think about the natural world and our rights to enjoy it. In 1932, hundreds of walkers organised a mass trespass on Kinder Scout, the highest point in England's Peak District. It was the result of a campaign by workers from Manchester for access to the surrounding countryside, much of which was privately owned. In 2012, Simon Watts used interviews from the BBC archives to tell the story through the memories of those who took part in the trespass.
44:13It's the early 1930s and a protest movement is forming in the northern industrial city of Manchester. Workers like George Haig want the right to escape to the country and walk up any mountain they choose. I was 16, coming on to 17. Don't forget that. And I had a job indoors in a bleaching and dyeing firm and to get out in the countryside at weekend was an absolute must. I was very keen on the right to ramble and we couldn't at that particular time because there were always these keepers sending you back. They had sticks and I know on a number of occasions I'd seen a shotgun leaning around, you know, within easy reach.
45:10I'm a rambler, I'm a rambler from Manchester way I get all me pleasure the Hartmolland way I may be a wage slave on Monday But I am a free man on Sunday At the time, the Peak District, a region of wild country on the edge of Greater Manchester, was used largely as private shooting estates. Gamekeepers even controlled the desolate but beautiful plateau on top of Kinder Scout, the area's highest mountain. On April 24th, 1932, the tension spilled over when George Haig and many others joined a mass trespass organised by an offshoot of the Communist Party. It was floated by a very small club of which I was a secretary, the British Workers' Sports Federation.
46:01Benny Rothman, an unemployed 20-year-old motor mechanic, organised the protest. He told the story to the BBC years later. We were working-class youngsters, largely coming from semi-slum-type towns in the Manchester area. Obviously, with a great thirst to get into the countryside from the rotten conditions, we were just ordinary working boys and girls. Benny Rothman's group organised regular walking expeditions. It was a humiliating incident on one such trip that triggered the mass trespass, as Benny's son, Harry Rothman, recalls. My dad told me years ago when I was a kid, they'd gone camping at a little place in the Peak District, and some kids had come up from London, because it was a national thing, and my dad and his mates said, oh, you know, these lads were from London, they'd never seen any wilderness, and they said, well, I'll show you this fantastic place called Bleaklow.
46:57And they weren't allowed on. There was about half a dozen of them, maybe a few more, and these gamekeepers told them to get lost, get off. And when they got back, they had a chat about it, and they said, well, if there'd been more of us, they wouldn't have been able to stop us. And out of that, that week rose the idea of having a mass trespass. We'll go with a lot more of us, and a group of keepers won't be able to stop us. There'll be too many of us. The Ramblers put up flyers and wrote messages in chalk on the roads to advertise the protest. The next Sunday, Walkers gathered in a quarry at the foot of Kinder Scout.
47:31Benny Rothman was amazed by the turnout. There were far more people than we expected. We had a membership in the whole of Lancashire of about 150 to 200 members, and there were between 400 and 600 ramlers had gathered. There was a real demand for something like that. When we had the meeting here in the quarry, There was quite a big group of policemen at the back of the crowd who'd followed us there, detectives who were listening and possibly taking notes. With their police escort, the Ramblers began to climb Kinder Scout, singing as they went. The day was just ending and I was descending Down Grimesbrook just by Upper Tor When a voice cried, Oh, you, in the way keepers do, he'd the worst face that ever I saw.
48:25We went up the bank from William Clough in a long wide line, and as we went up the bank, the person in charge of the keepers issued instructions to the keepers to come down the bank and meet us halfway. There must have been a dozen, or slightly more than a dozen keepers, came down and met this long line of ramblers, brandishing the sticks and shouting, get back, and that kind of thing. I may be a wage slave on Monday But I am a free man on Sunday There were two scuffles that I know of. One keeper, in the course of doing his piece, which he said was gently persuading the ramblers to go back, He slipped and twisted his ankle.
49:18Another keeper actually hit Wolfie Winnick over the head with his stick and Wolfie, who was a very tough lad, although he was a very quiet lad, was sufficiently provoked by this to punch him and that keeper went down. And we just carried on. The Manchester Guardian, April 25th, 1932. Mass trespass on Kinder Scout. Battle with keepers from our special correspondent. It was not an even struggle. There were only eight keepers, while from first to last more than 40 ramblers took part in the scuffle. There will be plenty of bruises in Galton and other parts of Manchester tonight, but no one was at all seriously hurt.
49:57After the fight, the police chiefs, who had accompanied the mass trespassers, left them alone to their great, though premature, relief. We continued along the hillside to Ashop Head. The trespassers were urged not to leave any litter about, and to their credit it must be said they were particularly neat in this matter. On Asherped itself a victory meeting was held and the leader now congratulated us on having trespass so successfully. As the Ramblers went back down the mountain, the police finally made their move. At the first beginnings of the village, the Ramblers were met by a police inspector in a baby car.
50:32At his suggestion, the Ramblers formed into Column and marched into Hayfield, still over 200 strong, singing triumphantly. It was their last happy moment. When they got properly into the village, they were halted by the police. Five men were taken to the police station and detained. One of those arrested was Benny Rothman. When he was sent for trial in a nearby country town, one look at the faces in the courtroom told him the game was up. When I looked at the stony faces of the jury, there was a bevy of army officers, majors, captains. There were no admirals there, but they threw a few landowners in to make it up.
51:11It was obvious that we were going to get no sympathetic hearing from them. Benny Rothman and his friends got between two and six months in prison. The jail terms caused an outcry and galvanised the movement for countryside access. Nonetheless, it took nearly two more decades for the Peak District to be made England's first national park and nearly 70 years for right-to-roam legislation to be introduced. Without that, I don't think we'd be able to wander the way that we can today, because Derbyshire really is a wonderful county. To be without that opportunity to ramble in Derbyshire would be terrible.
51:54I'm very, very proud of what I did. None of my friends now are still alive, and it's very, very sad. And it would be lovely to have them there today to be able to see what has really happened. I'm a rambler, I'm a rambler from Manchester way I get all me pleasure the hard-mulling way I may be a wage slave on Monday But I am a free man on Sunday Simon Watts with the story of the 1932 Kinder Scout Mass Trespass, an act of defiance by people from Manchester which helped to shape the rights of British people to roam in open areas as enshrined in the National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act of 1949.
52:48And we can round off this week's celebration of Manchester's past with a sporting witness. The English Premier League's first female football photographer came from, you guessed it, Manchester. She's been speaking to Timo Callaghan. Well, I was the first female photographer in England, really, doing football. And never mind the Premier League. I mean, literally, I would go to grounds. I'd get stick from the stewards of what you're doing here. I'd say, well, I'm a photographer. And they'd look me up and down and go, well, right. No chance. That's Maggie Haroon. In the 1980s, she found that she had a passion for taking photos.
53:37It's seeing through a camera what you can see in real life. I thought it was great. I thought it was terrific. But my ambition was not to do sport photography or football photography. I don't know what I was doing, really. I just meandered along a path and I didn't know where I was going. But it was probably inevitable that Maggie was going to meander down the sporting path. She grew up in a football family. Well, she practically grew up in a football club. I was at Man United since I was six years old. So I knew all the old players. They'd get me a Coca-Cola or something after a match. and I'd sit there on their knee because I was a child and they were so good to me.
54:30Her uncle Louis Edwards was the chairman of Manchester United from 1965 until 1980. He was then succeeded by her cousin Martin. Oh, and her dad Denzel Haroon was also a director at the club. So after graduating from Manchester Art College, she embarked on a career in an entirely male-dominated field. I was never, never taken seriously. if anything went wrong, according to the stewards and the police, I was always picked on because I was the weakest link. If, you know, like the Leeds fans colliding with the Man United fans at Leeds and I was in the middle of it and I'm thinking, oh my God, mind my cameras, mind my cameras and everything.
55:19And it was me that got arrested because I'm the weakest link. Campbell woman. But she didn't let that stop her. This was a woman who knew football and her knowledge was her power, as she explained to a BBC television programme about photography in 1995. It's very important to know football, to be able to follow the ball. These players are moving at a hell of a speed towards us and you've got to anticipate when the player is going to come in and lunge at the ball or make a sliding tackle, which always looks fabulous in the future. Because you know the players, you know where they're going to pass it to because you can read the signs.
56:00You had to know what you were doing. You had to be what they call a proper photographer. You had to focus, you had to be quick, you had to process your own film and send it. Oh, the stuff we had to carry, I can't even begin to describe it. It was so heavy. In the 1990s, football was changing in the UK. The five-year ban on English clubs from European competitions because of hooliganism came to an end. And in 1992, the top flight in England would change forever. Football's new Premier League has finally been given the go-ahead after 10 months of argument. The league, which will replace the First Division, will start this August.
56:43Maggie's cousin, Martin Edwards, was even one of the five chairmen who initiated the creation of the Premier League. and she was the competition's first female photographer, working for the Today newspaper. It was also the start of Manchester United's dominance of the English game under Sir Alex Ferguson. Maggie would often be assigned to cover the team because she had such a good relationship with the players and the staff, something which came in handy during a UEFA Cup tie in Moscow. And I've never seen rain like it. It was going sideways and it was heavy drops. if it hit you, it would knock you out.
57:23It was dreadful. Anyway, in the second half, came back in the second half, and Alex Ferguson and Brian Kidd were sitting in the dugout. And Alex said, Maggie, are you a bit wet? I was dripping, literally dripping. He said, don't worry about that. He said, come and sit between Kiddo and myself. So for the second half of that European match, I was sitting between the manager and the assistant manager. Was it a better place to get photographs from than where you'd normally be or not? Not really. I'd rather be behind the goal. But my gear was soaking any minute and my cameras would stop working. We lost on penalties and the guy who missed the penalties was sobbing into his shirt and he was facing towards the dugout.
58:29Bosh, bosh, bosh. Great picture, back page. In my bag I had my flash and my wide angle. I thought to myself, Alex will be really annoyed at this. and he looked at me and he said if you do that he said I'll never speak to you again I went right okay fair enough and it's not just football photography that Maggie's known for she's also got a certain reputation I have a lot of cats and I've got seven at the moment but at one time I had 23, I got a phone call one day from Kath, who was the receptionist at Carrington. And she said, Maggie, we've got this cat. It's been abandoned. I think it'll have a good life with you.
59:20and I said, I've got 23 cats. For God's sake, cats, I don't need any more. And there was this Scottish voice from behind, Maggie, take the cat. And I went, OK, Alex, because I reckoned it was him. OK, Alex, I'll come round now. Maggie named the cat Carrington in honour of the Manchester United training ground where he was found. Her great relationship with players in football stretched beyond Manchester United, though. At one European game, she even told the Arsenal striker Ian Wright where to celebrate. I said to Ian, when you score, I will be sitting here and I want you to turn round. Yeah, to me.
1:00:10And he did score. And he was going the opposite way. And I thought, what? And you could see him going the other way and then stopping and then looking round and then coming back. And yeah, with the arms outstretched, yeah. So much so I had to have a wide-angle lens on. Perfect picture. But it wasn't all perfect pictures. Sitting so close to the action did pose an occupational hazard for Maggie. Trabzon Spur versus Aston Villa. Well, my God, I was suddenly knocked out because of the rock-throwing supporters. Wayne Rooney, practising, knocked me out one day. Dennis Irwin, he shot a goal, but he knocked me out.
1:01:08And I think it was Brian Robson who turned round and said, God, if you're going to kill a photographer, Dennis, make certain it's not the chairman's cousin. But despite the knockouts and prejudice that she faced, Maggie has no regrets about her choice of career. There was nothing I could have changed. I just went along with the flow and it was lovely. The inimitable Maggie Haroon, the first female professional photographer in the English Premier League, speaking to Tim O 'Callaghan in 2025. So that's all the Manchester Bases covered, a city with a history that has influenced music, art, sport and even some of the great social movements of our time.
1:01:53That's it from this edition of the History Hour. We'll be back with more first-hand stories from the past next week. Join us again then if you can. For now, though, this is Max Pearson. From all of us here, thanks for listening. Goodbye. Sporting Witness takes you to the events that have shaped the sports world through the eyes of the people who were there. We weren't going to ask permission. We were just going to do it. It was such an amazing feeling. It was incredible. He started to write a story about how he came up with the idea for the red and yellow cars. I got to go. We cried a bit. We laughed a bit.
1:02:24It was wonderful. There's a magic during those moments that carries your soul. We were truly blessed to be a part of history. Sporting Witness. Subscribe wherever you get your BBC podcasts.
1:02:37What if I told you that most of history's underwear wasn't remotely close to the underwear you're wearing right now? Hi, I'm Greg Jenner, host of the You're Dead to Me podcast, and we're back with a brand new season. And if you're a fan of fashion trends of the past, you'll love our newest episode on the history of underwear. We explore how our underwear has changed throughout history, and whether TV depictions of Regency-era ladies in their lacy underwear are truly accurate. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.
From the publisher
Max Pearson presents a collection of the week's Witness History episodes from the BBC World Service.
We dedicate this edition to Manchester, in England. We hear about the man who opened the city's first racially inclusive nightclub in 1962. This programme contains descriptions of racial discrimination. Our guest Kath McDermott, a Mancunian DJ and producer at BBC 6 Music, tells us about Manchester's musical scene and how it helped shape the town’s culture and identity.
The acclaimed artist Harold Riley was a local to Greater Manchester and also the only one granted access to paint Nelson Mandela from life.
Plus, we remember the time the city hosted the Fifth Pan-African Congress in 1945, where activists from around the world met to discuss the struggle against colonialism and racial discrimination.
And we go back to 1948, when the University of Manchester developed ‘Baby,’ the world’s first stored-program computer.
Also, the mass trespass on Kinder Scout in the Peak District that challenged private landownership to demand access to the countryside.
And the UK’s first female football photographer.
Contributors: Lisa Ayegun – daughter of Phil Magbotiwan, the founder of The Reno. Harold Riley – artist (archive). Peter Abrahams – African National Congress activist and writer. Tom Kilburn – creator of the 'Baby' computer (archive). Hakim Adi – historian. Benny Rothman – organiser of the Kinder Scout mass tresspass (archive). Harry Rothman – son of Benny Rothman. Magi Haroun – football photographer.
(Photo: Albert Square in Manchester in 1968. Credit: Manchester Evening News Archive/Mirrorpix via Getty Images)
