Music producer Sonny Roberts and treating diabetes

25:07Svetlana Moisov was talking to Jill Kersley and remembering her role in the discoveries which have led to a revolution in the treatment of obesity around the world. I want to put all the issues on the table that keep me up at night. The Interview, the best conversations from across the BBC. We're coming up against technology companies that are richer and more powerful than many nation states. With the people shaping our world. There are those that believe that the power of law should be replaced by the law of power. The interview from the BBC World Service. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

25:49We focus on the part of the internet that most people don't know about. It's called the dark web. Undercover in the furthest corners of the dark web, US special agents are on a mission to locate and rescue children from abuse. Move in now. Police! From the BBC World Service, World of Secrets, the darkest web follows their shocking investigations. Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

26:21Still to come on the History Hour, more stories from this week's Witness History episodes on the BBC World Service, including the first African woman to win the Nobel Peace Prize, and how a mathematician made gambling history in 1974 with a new invention. We were running around Boston just looking at what was happening. The lottery was completely overwhelmed with the requests for additional tickets, which nobody anticipated. But before that, a personal quest by one of the team here to uncover a mystery surrounding the sinking of a British oil tanker off the coast of Indonesia in 1958. The ship was called the San Flaviano, and it went down after being hit by a bomb dropped from an aircraft while it was in the harbour at Balikpapan.

27:05But why was it attacked? Megan Jones has been looking into it with the help of Joseph McCorry, who was on board the doomed tanker.

27:22Hello. Do you want a tea? Eh? Do you want a tea? A tea? I will do. Just let me finish this off. I've come to see Joseph McCorry today and I've caught him doing some housework. So while he finishes it off, I thought I'd explain this programme is a bit different as Joe is my husband's grandad. While popping round for a cup of tea with some biscuits is normal, interviewing him about his time in the Merchant Navy isn't. and during one of our chats he's mentioned something I wanted to tell you about. When I seen the lifeboat come down to the deck I'm on and I ran over and got on his and I jumped in his I didn't feel I was safe then.

28:02I did think the ship itself was going to be a huge explosion and wipe everything out within half a mile. Let me take you back to the port city of Balikpapan on the island of Borneo in Indonesia. It's the 28th of April, 1958. Joe is 18 years old and he's a utility hand, which is a labourer who does different jobs on ships. He's been on a British oil tanker, the San Flaviano, for two weeks. They come and said, right, give us our duties. And one of them involved, working with the deck hands, was painting Union Jacks on the deck. What was this about? And they said, well, they're having a bit of problem in Borneo with these.

28:46there's a bit of an uprising going on, but everything's perfectly safe. We're a British ship. There's a rebellion underway in Indonesia, including on the island of Sumatra. Anti-communist rebels are trying to overthrow the government and the country's first president, Ahmed Sukarno, who declared independence in 1945 after three centuries of Dutch colonial rule. Tensions off and on the ship were high. Late in the morning, about two o 'clock in the morning, there was an altercation outside. I'd got my own cabin, which is quite unusual, isn't it, ships? Lovely cabin. And I went out and some chaps was fighting.

29:25And the one young lad, he was a London kid, I went to sit there and he'd got head wounds. And the third officer comes down and he said, what's happened to him? I said, I don't know, they've been fighting. Nothing to do with me, I wasn't involved in it whatsoever. I said, I'm just trying to help him. He says, OK, you get back to bed. The next morning at six o 'clock, there was a knock on my cabin door. One of the crew members said, the third officer wants to see you outside his cabin. We'll leave Joe outside the third officer's cabin for now, because the next part involves an organisation you might have heard of.

29:59It's America's Central Intelligence Agency, or the CIA. Before I tell you why they're relevant to this story, I need to do some research to confirm their involvement. I've been calling people. Hello, it's Megan from Witness History. Sending emails. And researching. Finally, I've been sent a book by someone very helpful. It's called Feet to the Fire, and it's about covert operations in Indonesia, which confirms what Joe has told me. It says CIA pilots arrived over Balikpapan, where Joe's ship is. I'm leaning on the rail of the ship and I noticed I could hear some bangs over on the shore, seeing smoke billowing up in between the trees.

30:48And out of this mist, an aeroplane was approaching the ship, flying us about 200 or 300 feet and heading straight for where I'm standing on the ship. I thought, go and buy me. I thought, if he don't pull up, he's going to hit us. Anyway, the closer and closer he's got, I could actually see the pilot. Then the book says the CIA pilots spotted the San Flaviano with the flags that Joe had painted, and they flew over it. He must have gone up to avoid the ship, and as he's gone over the ship, he's released the bomb and it's hit us. And within a second, there was a terrific noise. The whole ship shook.

31:27The third officer come running out. He said, what's happened? I said, well, an aeroplane's just gone over, and I think he's dropped a bomb. He said, don't be daft, he ain't dropped. I said, I'm sure he's... Anyway, the flame started to come up. And where the bomb hit was probably the location where my cabin was. And if I'd have been in the cabin, I think I might have had my chips. If you haven't heard that phrase at the end there, it means he might have died. At this point, Joe and the third officer are trying to escape. So he's disappeared back into his cabin. He said, come, come with me. So I followed him in and he started to get through the porthole.

32:05And I thought, what's she going through there for? So I came back out of his cabin and went round the deck. The fire was getting quite close to where it was, but I thought, oh, just about make it, because I could see him loading the lifeboats on the other side. I run across to the other side of the ship, and as the lifeboat was nearly disappeared, I just managed to grab hold of the rope and strung myself on and got in the ship. The official record is the ship was cleared in four and a half minutes. Four and a half minutes. And it was absolutely miraculous that people got off that ship. Although I've got a book which tells me this is the CIA, I want to keep digging.

32:48So I've been making more phone calls. Hello, it's Megan from Witness History. And sending more emails. And I've managed to get my hands on hundreds of pages of declassified documents from the CIA. I can see a reference to the president. Sukarno is probably not a communist. However, he almost certainly continues to underrate seriously the communist threat. And there's some general information from the day the ship was bombed. A B-26 aircraft bombed the Balikpapan area of Borneo on 28th April. Also hit was a large freighter tanker, presumably the British tanker press sources have reported sunk. The document's right.

33:28I'm looking at those newspaper articles and it is the San Flaviano. New York Times journalists also researched this subject and said the CIA was authorised to aid army officers rebelling against President Sucano, but I still can't find anything from the agency itself confirming it happened. So, you know what, I might just ask them. Their response? The CIA declined to comment. That's not a no. But just before I give up, there is just one final declassified document from the CIA that I'll look through. There's a big black box of redacted text. And underneath, there is a sentence which says, Beginning in March 1957, so that's around a year before the San Plaviano was bombed, the Department of State approved a series of covert actions to support the dissidents in the Outer Islands.

34:22I didn't know who did it at the time because it was a bit confusing and years and years went past. And then I had, my brother sent me some news. There was one or two statements and they said it was the CIA helping overtly the regime against the communist uprising in Borneo. After the San Flaviano was hit, Joe was picked up by another oil tanker called the Deronia. We'd only gone an hour and a half. Another aeroplane appeared, dropped a bomb, hit the Deronia and bounced off it. And it exploded in the water. After escaping two bombs, he was evacuated to Singapore and then made his way home to England, where he left the Navy a year later at the age of 19.

35:11There's very few people. In fact, I don't think there's anybody outside the family that know what happened. that I was on this ship. I never discussed anything about my experience on the San Flaviano because, to be quite honest, they just wouldn't believe me. They would think he was making it up. It's like someone's out of a James Bond film. A lot more people know about it now, Joseph. Megan Jones was talking to her grandfather-in-law, Joseph McCorry, about his escape from the sinking of a British oil tanker off the coast of Indonesia in 1958. Now, President Donald Trump has made no secret about his desire to be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

35:56He didn't get it this year. When the winner was announced this month, it went to the Venezuelan opposition activist Maria Corina Machado. We're going to reflect now on the work of a previous winner. In 2004, the Kenyan ecologist Wangari Mathai became the first African woman to win the Nobel Peace Prize. Wangari founded the Green Belt Movement, a grassroots organisation empowering local women to plant trees. Alex Last heard more about her work in 2016.

36:31My mother was often asked, were you afraid? You are fearless. How can you do all these things? And she said, no, I was afraid. But she said what needed to be done was so compelling that I had to do it.

36:52She grew up surrounded by nature, surrounded by the beauty of nature. Wanjira Mathai is Wangari's daughter. She grew up in Nyeri, in the highlands of Kenya, which she considered to be the most beautiful part of this world. She described in such vivid terms her encounter with tadpoles, rapids around rocks and she would spend hours and forget that she had been sent to fetch water and she would spend time playing with the environment. I think that had a lot to do with it. I also remember her describing her mother being a farmer. Her mother grew all the food that they ate and she had a small piece of land within hers where she asked my mother to grow her crops.

37:36And my mother enjoyed so much her interaction with the soil. It was clear early on that Wangari Mathai was very bright. She goes away to school, to university out in the United States, and she comes back and joins the university as a very young member of academic staff.

38:00She got her PhD in veterinary anatomy and became a professor at the University of Nairobi. During her work, she noticed that population growth, farming and deforestation were having a dramatic effect on rural Kenya. She was struck by the issues that were being presented by women who were very much like her mother. They were talking about lack of fuel, having to work hours to fetch firewood, lack of water and lack of nutritious food. And everything they described, she felt, was connected to a degradation of the landscape. And so why not plant trees, she asked them. Discussion with the countrywomen is what triggered me because they were describing a situation that was completely different from what I had experienced as a child.

38:49Professor Wangari Mathai speaking to the BBC in 2007. And so I could see and I could experience from their descriptions that something very drastic was going wrong with our environment. Water was no longer clean as I knew it. The soil was disappearing and so rivers were brown during the rainy season. Instead of rainwater being retained in the forest and coming to us slowly in form of rivers, now the water was rushing downstream because there was no vegetation to hold the water. So these descriptions gave me the inspiration where I told the women, let us plant trees. She founded the Green Belt Movement in 1977 to help women plant trees and at the same time begin to understand how to heal the land themselves.

39:45It's 50 million trees now and counting. But very quickly the Green Belt Movement became more than just about planting trees because we had an extremely dictatorial government and we had a one-party system. Public land was being parceled out to the friends of the administration of the day. And so protecting these spaces necessarily becomes political. One area that was under threat was the Karura Forest on the outskirts of the capital Nairobi. In theory, it was protected by law. But it became apparent that parcels of the land were being illegally sold off and developed. Professor Wangare Mathai and the Green Belt Movement went into action, planting trees and confronting the developers.

40:30Kuro Forest was by far one of the scariest battles. It was vicious. We invited members of the public to come and help us plant the trees, but I think what is happening now is that people are showing a lot of anger because nobody knew the extent to which the forest is actually destroyed. In one clash, protesters set fire to buildings and equipment used by the developers, while contractors hired thugs to protect their plots and attack protesters. Wangari herself was clubbed in the head. They were there with the full knowledge of the police. So we are not really fighting thugs, we are fighting the government.

41:10She got very physically hurt, she was in hospital, but she survived. And so whenever she survived, she knew it was time to go back and finish the work of saving the park. The battle to save Karura went on for years, but ultimately the Green Belt Movement won. While saving Karura Forest, Wangari Mathai also turned her attention to saving the only green space in downtown Nairobi, Uhuru Park. And she became involved in other human rights campaigns too. She was part of the opposition coalition that swept her power in 2002. She was elected to Parliament and even served as the Deputy Environment Minister.

41:49Then, in October 2004, a bolt from the blue. An ecologist from Kenya has become the first African woman to win the Nobel Peace Prize. Wangare Madhai has spent more than 25 years fighting deforestation. She just didn't believe that it was her. I think for a while there she probably thought, maybe it's a mistake. I don't know. But it was one of the most amazing moments to see her enjoy the spotlight and the platform in a way she'd never had before. I think the whole day she sort of spent saying, I didn't know anyone was listening. She took a conservation message around Africa and around the world.

42:35Then suddenly she became ill. All her life, my mother was healthy. And so when she was first diagnosed as ovarian cancer, stage 4 ovarian cancer. Then it was quite a shock. My mother died on September 25, 2011.

42:58She's left quite a legacy, I think. Certainly for us as Kenyans, as women, as Africans, I think the fact that one woman from the highlands of Kenya could be such a potent force for change remains one of the most inspiring things for me. And each of us can do something. It doesn't have to be big. And the little things we do eventually will create this wave of change.

43:31Mangari Mathai's daughter, Wanjira, was speaking to Alex last. Next, we're plunging into the ocean waves for this week's Sporting Witness. Competitive surfing requires traveling around the world and hoping to catch that perfect wave. In 2004, Sofia Molanovic made history by becoming the first South American woman to win the World Surfing Championship. She's been talking to Rachel Devine. I'm a Peruvian pro surfer. I've been in the ocean and loving this sport since I was super young. I was five years old. we're focusing on the world surfing championship known as the WSL the rules have changed slightly now but to win the women's event back in 2004 surfers would compete across seven different world championship tour events held across the globe from Australia to the USA via Tahiti France and the French Polynesia and Fiji surfers achieve points across the competition seven events and the surfer with the most points at the end of the tournament is the winner Seems pretty simple.

44:38But of course, the ocean can be unpredictable and so surfers must hope that conditions play to their strengths. In 2004, the WSL final two events were in Hawaii, but the waves were not in Sophia's favour. Actually in Hawaii, you know, I was in a close battle with number two. That was Rochelle Ballard. She's Hawaiian, you know, so she was going to be surfing at home. So I'm like, oh, this is going to be hard, you know. It was also a right, it was not a left anymore. So I knew I had to step it up. There was doubt, but I knew I couldn't let the opportunity go, you know. I don't know if I was going to have a year as good as what I was having, you know, again.

45:23Both of my parents surfed, my mom, my dad, my brother surfed too. So I have many memories of the ocean growing up. My family has surfing, going through our blood. My dad is 74. He surfs every day. My mom surfs too. Both of my brothers are really good surfers. Yeah, it's for sure part of our life and our lifestyle. I can be having a really hard day with a lot of emotions or something happens. And if I go into the ocean, it washes away, all this negativity. So I think the ocean is like a spiritual thing for me. It's like my temple. I feel relaxed in there. I feel in the moment. I have a spiritual bond with the ocean.

46:16Knowing how at home Sophia feels in the ocean, it's surprising to know that she can be afraid of it as well. I like being out of that comfort zone and feeling a little bit nervous, a little bit scared. I like that feeling, it makes me feel alive and I think it's part of surfing. The first event of the WSL took place in the Gold Coast in Australia. Sophia had seven chances to make history. But despite being in the best form of her life, Sophia was knocked out in round three. Not the start that she wanted. So Sophia had to channel her nerves in the face of extreme pressure She knew that in the second event, which was in Fiji, she had to make a real impact The Fiji event was one of the best events on tour, for sure The place is like paradise, beautiful clear water waves Breaking perfectly, you can get barreled, you can get good moves It's one of the best waves in the world, cloud break and we would go there and compete and stay in these beautiful islands.

47:28The whole experience was mind-blowing. I grew up in Peru here. There's really good lefts here, especially up north, so I always feel really comfortable surfing on my backside. When Sophia says that she was comfortable surfing on her backside, she's not talking about sitting on the surfboard. She's talking about a technique where the surfer rides with their back facing the wave looking out over their lead shoulder. Cloud break is a wave that breaks left, so I was able to feel really good the whole contest. I even actually had a 10-point ride in the final. That was my first 10-point ride too, I think, on the CT.

48:06And by CT, Sofia means Championship Tour, just so you know. I think that gave me a lot of confidence also for the rest of the year. Being able to win a CT just changes your whole mind. gives you a lot of confidence for sure. And so she became the first female Peruvian surfer ever to win a WSL World Championship Tour event. The whole experience felt surreal, amazing and beautiful. Not just winning my first CT, but also winning it in good waves, in good lifts, in a beautiful place. It just makes it even better. Event 3 was a pro event in Tahiti and Sophia didn't want to slow down Honestly, that year, 2004, was like a tour almost like done for me Just the waves were so good for my kind of surfing Fiji was so good for what I am used to surf and I felt really confident and then Chopu was pretty much the same You know, I mean, Chopu is a really, like, heavy wave, you know, like, there's a lot of, like, consequences in that wave.

49:19But when we surfed it, it was not really as big, you know, it was just more for, like, you know, maybe get a little barrel and then do a couple turns. Coming from winning in Fiji, you know, and putting that same tactic and that same formula for Tahiti, it just felt super, like, good. I felt like I could do exactly what I did in Fiji, do it again in Tahiti and it worked. A few short weeks after that win in Tahiti, the surfing world descended on Anglais in France for the next event. This was a chance for Sophia to make further history by claiming a hat-trick of wins. Once again, she was hoping that the ocean conditions were in her favour and, as we know, backside is her strength.

50:02First winning my first CT and then winning two in a row, I was like, OK, bring it on. I know what to do. The ways were good. There was lefts too, backside. So I'm like, OK, I just need to do the same. Even if it's not a beautiful island and I'm surfing with a wetsuit, I still can use the same formula as I've done in the last two events and I can have a good result. And it worked again. I took advantage of what I could do best, which was my backside surfing. Sophia had written herself into the history books. She'd won three events so far, and all that was left for her to do was to have a strong final two tournaments.

50:40Sophia's sixth and penultimate event of the competition was in Hawaii, and because she'd done so well so far, she was in an incredible position. If she could bag herself at least a runner-up spot, she would win the overall WSL, even with one event still to go. So the pressure was on.

51:33I won the title in Hawaii, you know, by placing second in a contest in Haleiwa. And yeah, I just felt awesome, you know, like I had a really wonderful year. I felt really good, really connected with the ocean, with myself. And I was still really young. I was 21. So yeah, I was for sure overwhelmed. I didn't know what was happening, but it felt good for sure. Looking back, does Sofia think that 2004 was the best year of her life? 2004 is the year that is always going to be remembered. I think that's probably the most important title I have, for sure. Career-wise, personally, the day my kids were born, for sure.

52:20Sofia Mulanovic was talking to Rachel Devine for Sporting Witness in their T-Bone production for the BBC World Service. While Sophia was at the pinnacle of her chosen career as a surfer, she was able to earn a good living from prize money and sponsorship deals. But millions of people around the world dream of scooping a big prize just by buying a ticket or a scratch card for regional lotteries. What, though, is the history of the scratch card? The mathematician John Koza has been telling Johnny Ianssen how he came up with it.

52:54the state's motivation was twofold one was to make money and the other was to stamp out the organized illegal gambling that was going on i haven't been this close to millions of dollars in a long long time the only people who were authorized to legally sell tickets that you had to pay to buy was the state lottery i screamed i got it and i jumped up and i said look at the tickets. We were running around Boston just looking at what was happening. The lottery was completely overwhelmed with the requests for additional tickets, which nobody anticipated. I've got goosebumps. I can't get rid of them.

53:32John Cozer is a computer scientist and the man behind the instant scratch card. He was inspired by early giveaway and coupon games that had been around since the turn of the century. The early cards were typically run by gas stations or grocery stores or other businesses as a means to get customers to come into the store. So it was very common as a promotional device to increase traffic and customer loyalty. A crucial part of this is that they were free. In those days, they were called probability games. Every card was a potential winner if played correctly. A card had, say, 10 different boxes and you had to scratch off only three to try and find symbols that matched.

54:21But the technology behind them was crude and vulnerable. Remember, this was in the days before computer printing that we're now all familiar with. Printing was done at the time on big sheets of paper with a very limited number of patterns. and if you didn't have enough patterns, customers could figure out how to make every card a winner, which of course would bankrupt the company running the game. J &H were one of the companies printing the giveaway games and needed someone to try and improve their security. In the late 60s, they came across John, one of the few people studying computer science at the University of Michigan.

55:01They gave him a job and using his programming and math skills, he worked out a way to make the game secure. The process we developed involved printing some of the spots on the ticket on one pass and then feeding the cardstock through the press a second time to print some more of the spots and then print passing it through the press a third time. And the result of doing that in different combinations produced hundreds of thousands of different tickets. John and his team had cracked it. Their new technique meant the tickets were absolutely secure. It provided a massive selling point. But the problem was, these tickets couldn't be sold.

55:47The legal requirement was that the tickets had to be given away for free. A private party could not sell a gambling ticket. That was illegal. The only people who were authorized to legally sell tickets that you had to pay to buy was the state lottery. The first pot of gold is at the end of the rainbow and tomorrow is the first drawing. What can you tell us about it? Well, Mr. Fenton, this is a very historic occasion, not only for the state of New Hampshire, but for the people of our country, because tomorrow we're holding our first drawing for the first million dollars worth of sweepstakes tickets that have been sold.

56:27That interview from the North American Association of States and Provincial Lotteries is from 1964, when New Hampshire became the first state to introduce a lottery. In 1972, John started approaching states with his new scratch card. They were different to the gas station cards of old. See, state lotteries didn't want cards where everyone was a potential winner. It was too risky. John's new cards required all the boxes to be rubbed off and only some were winners. It's the cards that we know and still play with today. And they also offered something unique, instant gratification. We were quite aware that an instant game would dramatically increase state lottery sales.

57:09At the time, the state lotteries were running what you might call raffle games, where they would issue tickets maybe with a six-digit number. They would hold a drawing maybe on Saturday night. Those were very slow-moving games, very unexciting, and they didn't produce much revenue. In fact, most of the state lotteries were not doing all that well. We thought that an instant game would vastly increase sales, and of course we were correct in that assessment. Despite that, none were interested, and to make matters worse, J &H went bust. John was now unemployed. Undeterred, in 1973, he joined with Dan Bauer, who was also out of a job, and they started their own company, Scientific Games.

57:54They carried on pitching, and in the Massachusetts State Lottery Commissioner, found a kindred spirit. And it only happened because at the time, the head of the lottery was a PhD in mathematics, Dr William Peralt, and he understood the potential of an instant game, and he also understood kind of the mathematics behind our solution for running a secure game. It was his willingness to try something new that launched the instant game. But there was a slight problem. Someone else had already approached Massachusetts with their own version of scratch cards and actually won the contract. Undeterred, John asked to test the cards to see how secure they were.

58:39Amazingly, they agreed. We took some tickets back home for a few days and then flew back to Boston. And there were numerous different ways by which the tickets could be compromised. They included using a tiny microscope, photocopying them to show indentations and a grapefruit flavoured fizzy drink.

59:04One of the several ways we compromised the computer tickets at the time involved pouring fresca on them, and that made the tickets temporarily transparent. And I couldn't tell you today what was in the fresca, but it did do that. So he went back to the Massachusetts Lottery Board and demonstrated it to the execs. Well, obviously, they were shocked. Remember, these tickets had already been printed and were sitting in a warehouse. They were within weeks of launching it publicly. They had an advertising campaign in place. It was just shocking. As a result, the contract was withdrawn. John's new company rebid and was successful thanks to his secure scratch card.

59:54Then, at 6am on May 29th, 1974, history was made when the first instant scratch cards went on sale. They offered the chance to win$10 ,000 or$1 ,000 a week for life. The public went crazy. The first day of the instant lottery sales in Massachusetts, we expected the game to be successful, but we really had no idea that suddenly people would be lined up around the block to buy these tickets. And the initial supply of tickets sold out, I think, within the first week or so, and we had to quickly reprint additional tickets. The volume was so unexpectedly high that the lottery wasn't as prepared as it could have been to just handle the paperwork.

1:00:46Unsurprisingly, other states saw the money being made and wanted in. A year later, around half a dozen states took on scratch cards and many more followed. Today, the company John started but has since left can produce 53 billion scratch cards a year, a few of which are bought by John. In fact, I buy lotto tickets myself every week. It's a fantasy. You think about what would happen if you won this big prize. Obviously, a lot of people have gotten a lot of fun and won a lot of money. as a result of it.

1:01:25Yeah, maybe, but not me, John. That was John Cozer, the man behind the invention and now staggering popularity of the Scratch Card Lottery. That's it for this edition of the History Hour. We'll be scratching beneath the surface of more events from the past in the company of those who were there next week. But until then, this is Max Pearson. From all of us here, thanks for listening. Goodbye. From the pioneers... We weren't going to ask mission, we were just going to do it. And the celebrations. You feel you have, you win. I feel it. I was first. I was first. We were so proud of ourselves. And Cameron was proud of us too.

1:02:02I still cannot believe it. It was such an amazing feeling. It was incredible. To the humiliations. I did cry most of the half. Oh man, I'm failing. I'm failing this sport that I love. Sporting Witness takes you to the events that have shaped the sports world. through the eyes of the people who were there. It's not just about the sport. It's about all the other things that people with disabilities learn from each other. For nine minutes, you become a fan in the stands as we take you back in time to examine memorable moments from all over the world. There's a magic during those moments that carries your soul.

1:02:39We were truly blessed to be a part of history. Sporting Witness. Subscribe wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

1:02:48I want to put all the issues on the table that keep me up at night. The interview. The best conversations from across the BBC. We're coming up against technology companies that are richer and more powerful than many nation states. With the people shaping our world. There are those that believe that the power of law should be replaced by the law of power. The interview from the BBC World Service. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts. We focus on the part of the internet that most people don't know about. It's called the dark web. Undercover in the furthest corners of the dark web, US special agents are on a mission to locate and rescue children from abuse.

1:03:34Move in now. From the BBC World Service, World of Secrets, The Darkest Web follows their shocking investigations. Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your BBC podcasts.