The birth of the modern fitted kitchen and the creation of Cluedo

17 Jan 2026 · 1 h · 32 chapters

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In short

The History Hour: Episode Summary

Podcast Overview Title: The History Hour Description: A compilation of the latest Witness History programmes, presenting stories from people who experienced significant historical events.

Episode Title Title: The Birth of the Modern Fitted Kitchen and the Creation of Cluedo Description: Max Pearson presents various Witness History interviews from the BBC World Service, featuring conversations about the Frankfurt Kitchen, the board game Cluedo, computer viruses, Venezuelan mudslides, Ayrton Senna's racing victory, and the Afghan talent show Afghan Star.

Key Segments

  1. The Frankfurt Kitchen
  2. Guest: Dr. Annie Gray, food historian
  3. Overview:
  4. The Frankfurt Kitchen, designed by Margarete Schütte-Lihotzky in 1926, is considered the first modern fitted kitchen.
  5. Schütte-Lihotzky, Austria's first female architect, aimed to create a functional kitchen to simplify the tasks of housework primarily performed by women.
  6. Design Features:
  7. Size: Approximately 3.5 by 1.8 meters, emphasizing efficiency.
  8. Elements: Included continuous cabinets, an adjustable work stool, adequate lighting, and designated spaces for cooking and food storage.
  9. Promotion: Introduced at exhibitions; initially met with resistance but became iconic.
  10. Legacy:
  11. Sparked the transition to modern fitted kitchens in Europe and influenced kitchen design worldwide.
  1. The Creation of Cluedo
  2. Guest: Marcia Lewis, daughter of Cluedo's inventor Anthony Pratt
  3. Overview:
  4. Cluedo (known as Clue in the US) was developed from murder mystery games played at social gatherings in the 1930s.
  5. Pratt, inspired by his experiences in hotels and a wartime munitions factory, created a game that involved deduction and elimination.
  6. Game Development:
  7. Original characters included Colonel Yellow (later Colonel Mustard) and Mrs. White (originally Nurse White).
  8. Initial weapons featured unconventional choices like a bomb and a hypodermic syringe.
  9. Impact:
  10. Initially, sales were lackluster, but it gained immense popularity, selling over 150 million copies globally.
  1. Computer Viruses
  2. Guest: Amjad Farooq Alvi, co-creator of the 'Brain' virus
  3. Overview:
  4. The 'Brain' virus, released in 1986, is widely considered the first computer virus affecting personal computers.
  5. It was originally harmless but spread widely after being copied without permission.
  6. Significance:
  7. Raised awareness of cybersecurity and set the stage for modern anti-virus efforts.
  1. Venezuelan Mudslides (1999)
  2. Guest: Leydys Crespo, survivor
  3. Overview:
  4. A catastrophic mudslide event in December 1999 resulted from torrential rains, devastating coastal regions in Venezuela.
  5. Impact:
  6. Thousands lost their lives, and communities were destroyed. The official death toll was controversial, with estimates ranging from 3,000 to 30,000.
  7. Survivor's Account:
  8. Crespo recounted the terror of the event, the loss of homes, and the long recovery process.
  1. Ayrton Senna's First Formula 1 Win (1985)
  2. Guest: Chris Dinnage, mechanic for Team Lotus
  3. Overview:
  4. Senna achieved his first Grand Prix victory in treacherous conditions at the Portuguese Grand Prix.
  5. Significance:
  6. This win foreshadowed Senna's successful career and showcased his exceptional driving skills in difficult weather.
  1. Afghan Star (2005)
  2. Guest: Jahid Mohseni, development producer
  3. Overview:
  4. Afghan Star was a singing competition launched post-Taliban, reflecting a shift in cultural expression and entertainment in Afghanistan.
  5. Cultural Impact:
  6. The show became immensely popular, fostering a resurgence in the music industry and providing a platform for Afghan talent.
  7. The success of the show was curtailed after the Taliban regained power in 2021.

Conclusion This episode of The History Hour offers a diverse array of historical narratives, each highlighting significant cultural developments and societal impacts. From kitchen design and board games to natural disasters and entertainment in Afghanistan, the stories reveal how history shapes modern society.

For more insights and stories, listeners are encouraged to visit the BBC Witness History platform.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

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The Frankfurt Kitchen: A Revolutionary Design

1:15 to 2:06

Explore the history and significance of the Frankfurt kitchen designed by Margarete Schütte-Lihotzky.

“Hello and welcome to the History Hour from the BBC World Service with me, Max Pearson, the past brought to life by those who were there.”

Life and Legacy of Margarete Schütte-Lihotzky

2:06 to 4:24

Delve into the life of Margarete, her architectural contributions, and her role in history.

“It comes from the 1920s and was designed by the Austrian architect Margarete Schuttel-Lechotsky.”

Innovative Features of the Frankfurt Kitchen

4:24 to 6:14

Learn about the unique features and practical solutions of the Frankfurt kitchen.

“At that time, a new social movement began in Vienna called the Settlement Movement.”

The Cultural Impact and Promotion of the Frankfurt Kitchen

6:14 to 7:53

Understand how the Frankfurt kitchen was introduced and its cultural significance.

“It's the earliest work in MoMA's collection by a female architect.”

Margarita's Perspective and Later Life

7:53 to 9:49

Examine Margarita's views on her work and her life towards the end of her years.

“With inventive solutions like flour containers that were constructed out of oak to keep meal worms out.”

The Influence of the Frankfurt Kitchen on Modern Design

9:49 to 11:30

Discover how the Frankfurt kitchen influenced modern kitchen designs and concepts.

“Christina has worked hard to preserve her legacy in a special museum.”

Shifts in Kitchen Spaces and Cultural Perceptions

11:30 to 14:02

Explore the changing perceptions of kitchens from practical spaces to showpieces.

“Today, all of our kitchens are designed around this very French male professional chef idea of standing up and chopping, sitting down and adjusting that stool to your height is brilliant.”

The Evolution of the Modern Kitchen

14:02 to 15:18

Learn about the gradual transformation of kitchens from the 1930s to modern designs.

“through to, I would say, the 1970s, 80s, you see this shift towards the show kitchen, the kitchen with the serving hatch of the 1950s onwards, where your guests for dinner might sit at a table and see into your kitchen.”

Recognizing Historical Contributions

15:18 to 15:29

Discussion on acknowledging the contributions of early kitchen designers.

“So what I'd say is she was incredibly important and should be recognised, but also modern kitchen designers should look back at the original Frankfurt kitchen and take more out of it than they necessarily have.”

The Creation of Cluedo

15:50 to 18:11

Explore how Anthony Pratt designed the board game Cluedo inspired by murder mysteries.

“We are gathered here because a murder has been committed.”
Show all 32 chapters

The Characters and Weapons of Cluedo

18:11 to 20:46

Insight into the original characters and weapons in Cluedo, and their evolution.

“The rules of the game are what my dad got the patent for.”

Testing and Launching the Game

20:46 to 23:18

Learn about the testing process and eventual launch of Cluedo.

“They did change that in the final version.”

The Phenomenon of Cluedo

23:18 to 24:10

Discover the popularity and sales history of Cluedo over the decades.

“And it was that 1960s version, coloured red, with a figure of Sherlock Holmes on the front, which really increased the sales dramatically.”

Legacy of Cluedo

24:10 to 24:40

Reflect on the lasting impact of Cluedo on family entertainment.

“Marcia Lewis, the daughter of Anthony Pratt, inventor of the board game Cluedo.”

Upcoming Stories in History

25:07 to 28:00

Preview of upcoming historical stories, including a survivor's tale and the first computer virus.

“Still to come, a survivor of the Venezuelan mudslides of 1999 that left thousands dead.”

The Concept of Background Programs

28:00 to 28:30

Learn about the early development of background software and its entertaining effects.

“So I found one article that was about how to run two programs together while one is running in the front and one is running in the background.”

Challenges of Software Agreements

28:30 to 29:38

Discover the struggles of creating legal agreements in the software industry in Pakistan.

“Then we started working on hiding it so that nobody can see it.”

The Birth of a Computer Virus

29:38 to 31:26

Explore how a simple software project turned into a widespread computer virus.

“If the software was copied, then the special code that Amjad and his brother Bassett had written into the program would spread to other computers.”

The Message of the Brain Virus

31:26 to 31:46

Uncover the surprising message embedded in the first computer virus.

Impact and Legacy of the Virus

31:46 to 34:24

Understand the implications of the brain virus and its creators' legacy.

“4432 530 Beware of this virus Contact us for vaccination It reached US, UK, Australia, China, Singapore The brain computer virus was spreading around the world So what exactly is a computer virus?”

Survivor's Account of the Vargas Tragedy

34:44 to 39:56

Hear the harrowing story of a survivor during the catastrophic Vargas tragedy.

“Whole communities and thousands of lives have been simply overwhelmed by the tidal wave of mud that descended from the mountains.”

Aftermath and Rebuilding

39:56 to 42:00

Learn about the long-term effects and rebuilding efforts after the disaster.

“We had to live with the feeling that many of our neighbours had probably been swept away by the flood.”

Ayrton Senna's Historic First Win

42:00 to 43:47

Learn about Ayrton Senna's first Formula One victory under challenging conditions.

“As far as I am concerned, the noise of water flowing, or even from the sink, bothers me.”

The Challenges of Driving in Rain

43:47 to 45:46

Discover the difficulties faced by drivers in torrential rain during races.

“Chris started working with Ayrton Senna when the young driver joined Team Lotus for the 1985 Formula One season.”

Senna's Mastery in the Race

45:46 to 47:58

Explore how Senna managed to maintain control and strategy during the race.

“gets in the car, finishes at 2 o 'clock, and by half past 2 he's gone without a buy or leave.”

Senna's Astonishing Victory

47:58 to 48:59

Witness the moment Senna achieved his remarkable victory amidst chaos.

“to be aware of what was going on around him and being able to just log all that information that was in front of him, where the damp patches were, where the rivers were, where some of the other guys had gone off.”

Remembering Ayrton Senna

48:59 to 51:06

Reflect on Senna's legacy and the impact of his tragic loss.

“It was a massive excitement when he finally crossed the line and wheel-jumped over to pit wall and ran out onto the track.”

The Launch of Afghan Star

51:26 to 55:06

Learn about the impact of Afghan Star on Afghan culture post-Taliban.

“In 2005, people in Afghanistan were introduced to a phenomenon that was gripping the Western world, singing competitions on TV that the public could vote for.”

Challenges in Afghan Media Production

55:06 to 56:00

Understand the struggles of producing a TV show in post-war Afghanistan.

“to try to find new talent on the ground in Afghanistan that can do music and we sort of try to nurture it.”

The Impact of Afghan Star on Music and Society

56:00 to 59:26

Learn about the significant influence of the Afghan Star TV show on the music scene in Afghanistan and its societal implications.

“able to pick up shows and manage to do some leading show in a country with a lot of pressure from everyone and being able to get that up and running.”

The Taliban's Return and Its Effects

59:26 to 1:00:00

Understand how the return of the Taliban affected the music industry and cultural expression in Afghanistan.

“particularly the younger generation, the generation that are going to be the leaders in 10, 15 years.”

Yahid Moussaini's Insights

1:00:00 to 1:00:11

Hear insights from Yahid Moussaini about the future of Afghan music and the importance of preserving its legacy.

“Yahid Moussaini was the development producer for Afghan Star and is now the chief operating officer of the Mobi Media Group.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0:30All starts with a subscription to BBC.com. Find out more at BBC.com slash unlimited. We did something that no one else had ever done. There was such a excitement and energy about this moment. It opened the door for everything that rapidly followed. Witness history. History as told by the people who were there. I was walking in space, the first man ever to do so. I felt almost insignificant, like a tiny ant compared to the immensity of the universe. Witness History from the BBC World Service. Listen now. Search for Witness History wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

1:15Hello and welcome to the History Hour from the BBC World Service with me, Max Pearson, the past brought to life by those who were there. This week, we learn some surprising details about the origins of the board game Cluedo, including the first murder weapons. The original included an axe, a bottle of poison, a poker and a hypodermic syringe and a bomb. Plus the deadly floods and mudslides of 1999 in Venezuela. Afghan Star, the TV talent contest that flourished when the Taliban weren't in power. and the spread of the 1986 computer virus thought to be the world's first. This virus was not, or this piece of code was not, intent to damage, steal or harm anything.

2:02That's all coming up later. But first, we're heading into the kitchen. And this is a really special kitchen. It comes from the 1920s and was designed by the Austrian architect Margarete Schuttel-Lechotsky. Her plan for a highly functional food preparation workspace, the Frankfurt kitchen, is credited as being the first modern fitted kitchen, as Jill Kersley has been finding out. If I had known that everyone would keep talking about nothing else, I would never have built that damned kitchen. Those were the words of Margarita Schutel-Hotsky, spoken at the age of 101 in a newspaper interview, reflecting on the legacy of her most famous creation.

2:48the Frankfurt kitchen. It was a groundbreaking design. Margarita was born in Vienna, Austria in 1897. She was the country's first female architect and contributed to major projects. She championed women's rights and played a role in the Austrian communist resistance against the Nazi regime. For that, she was arrested, interrogated by the Gestapo and sentenced to 15 years in prison. But today we're going to talk about that damned kitchen. Much later in the 1980s, when I got to know her, then this kitchen was reported as the only or the most important element of her entire work, and that then annoyed her.

3:36But the Frankfurt kitchen had now become a design icon. This is Christina Zwingli, an architect and expert on Margarita Shutilhotsky. She was still a student when she met Margarita for the first time. And then from 1985, when I had finished my studies, me and other colleagues visited her. We wanted to know more about her and then we also started to help her with the research in her own Archive. It was through this that Christina got to hear Margarita's story at the Frankfurt kitchen. Around 1919, just after World War I ended, Vienna became the capital of the new First Republic of Austria. Life was very difficult.

4:21Many people were poor, hungry and struggling to survive. At that time, a new social movement began in Vienna called the Settlement Movement. It aimed to improve living conditions for working-class people. Margarita got involved with the planning of new settlement houses. From the start, she was also concerned with the topic of household management, with questions like, what does daily life require, and what does that mean for the design of a home? During this time, it was mainly women who did the housework and cooking. Margarita wanted to make these tasks easier for them. She met German architect Ernst May when he visited Vienna and showed him her designs.

5:04She must have been a very confident young woman, presenting her work so directly and impressing him with it. That's how he came to know her ideas on streamlining housework. Ernst May took Margarita to Frankfurt, Germany, where there was a housing shortage. In Frankfurt, they decided to build apartments with a small kitchen, a work kitchen. The work kitchen had connections from the entrance hall to the kitchen and then from the kitchen to the living room with the dining area. A small kitchen was necessary, one which saved steps and hand movements. That meant that this kitchen really only measured about 3.5 by 1.8 meters.

5:46Margarete Schüter-Lihotzky designed this setup. This was the beginning of the modern kitchen. Andrew Gardner from the Museum of Modern Art in New York explained this in a video on their YouTube channel where they showcased a replica of the Frankfurt kitchen. People are really interested when they walk through this space and actually see this kitchen on display because it reminds them of the very same spaces that they themselves inhabit. It's the earliest work in MoMA's collection by a female architect. Schuttel-Lechutsky looked for ways that would make women's life and labour that much easier.

6:24It was at the heart of how Schuttel-Lechutsky thought about this space. You might not recognise the name Frankfurt Kitchen, but you'd probably recognise the kitchen by how it looks. Christina says that Margarita thought carefully about every aspect. She designed these continuous cabinets into which she built various elements, for example, aluminium bins where food was stored. Then, of course, there was a sink in the right place with a draining board that was always on the left because she assumed that if the user was right-handed, the workflow while washing dishes would be more practical if the dishes were placed back on the left.

7:01Above it was a rack for drying plates. In front of the window was a wooden work surface, slightly lower for preparing vegetables or cooking ingredients. And when peeling, you could push all the waste directly into a drawer, which could then be pulled out and emptied. You could also work while seated. There was a small stool that could swivel. There was a lamp that could be moved. And of course, very important, the stove. Frankfurt already had gas stoves. So cooking was done with gas. Above it was an extractor hood. Next to the stove was a so-called cooking box. A cooking box is an insulated element where you could place pots with pre-cooked food, cover them, and they could continue to simmer and cook gently.

7:51Lots of practical features. Here's Andrew Gardner from MoMo again. With inventive solutions like flour containers that were constructed out of oak to keep meal worms out. You also have these pouring bins, which are labeled with the particular ingredients. And then right next to the stove, there's this spice rack, this idea of this kind of relationship between where the stove is located, where the spices are located and where the ingredients are located. It was all about how do we create a maximally efficient space for the modern housewife to work in. Back in the 1920s, the kitchen was starting to gain popularity.

8:28This kitchen was truly a completely new development and it needed to be promoted. It had to be introduced, especially to women's associations. In 1927, there was a large exhibition in Frankfurt about the modern household, where the kitchen was displayed in various forms. The important thing was that many exhibitions were held in different cities, and Margarete Schüttel-Lihotsky was sent to give lectures everywhere. This new kitchen was a sensation. There is one thing about Margarete that may surprise you. Here she is talking to ORF Austrian Broadcasting Corporation in 1994. I had never cooked before.

9:09My mother cooked. I came up with this as an architect. Margarete Schütte-Lihotzki was always a working woman, and she herself also said that she never cooked. She just saw and worked on this kitchen as an order. And that was also the case even in her older age. She loved going to a restaurant almost every day. Despite everything, she never wanted to speak about the kitchen. As she put it, I've done a lot more in my life than just this. On January the 18th, 2000, five days before her 103rd birthday, Margarita Schutelhofsky died in Vienna. Christina has worked hard to preserve her legacy in a special museum.

9:53The Margarete Schütteli-Hotzke Center, which has been in Vienna since 2022, is located in the apartment in which she spent the last 30 years of her life, which she planned and furnished herself. We were able to largely restore this apartment and make it so it can now be visited. We were able to reconstruct her personal kitchen last year. It was no longer there, so we restored it using plans and photographs. It reflects or reintroduces many of the elements that already existed in Frankfurt. And these same elements we still see in many kitchens throughout the world. Yes, this kitchen was the forerunner to all fitted kitchens.

10:39But what happened was that in history, here in Central Europe, this German development from the 1920s was forgotten. And after the Second World War, it all came back here as the American kitchen. Yet the ideas had originated from an Austrian woman in Frankfurt. Christina Zwingli was telling Jill Kersley there about the remarkable Margarita Schuter-Lachotzki. And her influence on modern living can hardly be overstated. Dr. Annie Gray is a food historian and admirer of the Frankfurt kitchen. Now, as we heard, it was a sensation back in the day in the 1920s. But what is it that you like about it so much all these years on?

11:20For me, the glory of the Frankfurt kitchen is the adjustability of it. So things like the fact that you've got a little worktop with an adjustable stool for a woman to sit down and chop up vegetables. Today, all of our kitchens are designed around this very French male professional chef idea of standing up and chopping, sitting down and adjusting that stool to your height is brilliant. and also the original kitchen had a light on the ceiling which you could pull across the full length of the room so you could have the light where you wanted it to be. That kitchen to me is the ultimate inner kitchen that acknowledges that people who cook, at that point women, didn't come in one size fits all and therefore the kitchen shouldn't actually come in one size fits all either.

12:02And it was supposed to be widely accessible. This wasn't the height of luxury at the time, it was for ordinary people. Yeah, absolutely. I mean it was built around the idea that flats, modern apartments, had really small kitchens that you couldn't have servants in them. This was a kitchen designed for the one housewife, and it always was a wife, household. I mean, in Britain, as in most of Europe, a lot of people did have servants in the 1920s and 30s, and I think that's one reason it was so slow to catch on. That and the fact that a lot of people weren't building houses. What was the kitchen like pre the Frankfurt kitchen?

12:33The basic design of the kitchen hadn't really changed for a millennia or so. Your standard kitchen would be a workspace, usually a table. It would be somewhere to cook, which might still be an open fire, especially in rural settings. But in urban settings was more likely to be a closed range using coal or wood. Gas came in at the end of the 19th century, but it was quite slow to take off. And everything was either built in by a carpenter, if you could afford it, or it was bits and pieces of furniture that you'd come by. and one of the ways in which the Frankfurt kitchen was so influential was the idea that it was fitted and didn't have gaps so that dust and bits of food would go into it.

13:13And was there an influence of that kitchen on the way people cooked? Not immediately. I mean the Frankfurt kitchen had an impact on design and on the way in which kitchen designers thought about kitchens most notably in the States where it went away, got mixed up with the factory system and was eventually reborn as the fitted kitchen. but the biggest impact actually was just in the fact that you then had something as cooking and as domestic service changed which was already in existence which could then come in what I would say is that once you start to get the fitted kitchen and the idea of the kitchen as a space which the mistress of the house is in quite a lot of the time you get a shift in the idea that kitchens are dirty spaces a shift from kitchens are places for servants to kitchens are now places that I might want to show off.

14:01So very gradually, really from the 1930s through to, I would say, the 1970s, 80s, you see this shift towards the show kitchen, the kitchen with the serving hatch of the 1950s onwards, where your guests for dinner might sit at a table and see into your kitchen. And from there, slowly, you end up with what I would say is the modern kitchen, very aspirational space, even if we're not cooking in it, which an awful lot of people don't. that kind of glorious, large, marble-lined island in the middle space, which is largely for show. So looking back at the years since the 1920s, would you say that Margarita Shuta-Lihotsky in the developed world has changed the world in the sense that it has given us the new kitchen?

14:45Yes, I would say she has, or at least she should be more acknowledged as such. my one proviso would be so much of what was good about that kitchen didn't make it into the modern fitted kitchen all of those elements of having something that was made that could fit into a space that was tiny that was that was built to to measure really those took off the bit that we lost the adjustability of that kitchen the practicality of that kitchen with things like units that went up to the top of the wall and met the ceiling so that you didn't have to clean them that did get lost. So what I'd say is she was incredibly important and should be recognised, but also modern kitchen designers should look back at the original Frankfurt kitchen and take more out of it than they necessarily have.

15:28That's the food historian Dr Annie Gray. Next we've got a fascinating first-hand insight into the creation of one of the world's most popular board games, Cluedo. This is from the early part of the 20th century when murder mysteries were extremely popular. But turning the murder mystery format into a board game required a particular type of genius. Jane Wilkinson has the story. We are gathered here because a murder has been committed. But it wasn't by Colonel Mustard in the library with the candlestick. Instead, let's turn detective for a visit to a 1930s English country house where a group of partygoers have gathered.

16:10And it's the man playing the piano who's our main suspect for creating Cluedo. He was a wonderful pianist. When he was a young man, he would play the piano in hotels and country houses. There was often murder mystery games. There's a body discovered and then it's a process of elimination and questioning. People would go absolutely wild and a lot of shrieking and screaming. He found that quite fascinating. This is Marcia Lewis and it's her dad, Anthony Pratt, who's at the Piano Keys. And murder mystery games are not his only brush with the world of crime. He spent the best part of the year playing the piano at a hotel.

17:00One frequent visitor to this hotel was a retired Crown Court judge known as the Hanging Judge and he used to hold court regaling visitors with the criminals that he'd tried and I think that made a very big impression on my dad who was listening in. So the evidence against Anthony is stacking up but before our suspect could plan the perfect board game, war breaks out. He was too old for national service, but he did work in a munitions factory in Birmingham, making turrets for tanks. Birmingham was a great target for enemy bombing, so the blackouts were imposed very, very strictly. The evenings were spent behind blacked out windows and social life came to a halt.

18:02So my dad did have time on his hands to think. And now with both the means and the opportunity, Anthony dreams up a plot. The rules of the game are what my dad got the patent for. It's like a detective novel translated into a board game. Somebody's murdered, there's a limited pool of suspects and a crime scene and the suspects are systematically eliminated to leave one, the murderer, who's then arrested. Of course, every murder mystery needs a grand backdrop. Meet our next suspect in the creation of Cluedo, Elva Pratt, Anthony's wife. Her biggest contribution was the design of the board. She was a talented amateur artist, so the actual representation of the board was entirely her work.

18:57All the classic rooms that you would get in a country house. A ballroom, a conservatory, a dining room, library and a billiard room. But, according to Marcia, any talk of the game's Tudor mansion being based on a real house is simply a red herring. There's two in particular often mentioned. One is Highbury Hall in Birmingham and then the other one was Tudor Close Hotel in Sussex which attracted film stars, the sort of upper echelons of society. But my parents didn't mix in those circles So the game was an amalgam of country houses that they'd seen or knew about. Next to be introduced to the game are a cast of characters.

19:53And they're not all the usual suspects. In the original, there was Dr Black, Mr Brown, Mr Gold, Professor Plum, Miss Scarlet. There was Colonel Yellow, who became Colonel Mustard. Mrs White was originally Nurse White and in the American version, Reverend Green was just plain Mr Green because apparently it wasn't acceptable to have a member of the clergy mixed up in murder. Whatever the identity of the killer, Antony provides them with a choice of weapons. The original included an axe, a bottle of poison, a poker and a hypodermic syringe and a bomb. Which would be rather obvious. Yeah, if you bombed the billiardry.

20:46That's right. They did change that in the final version. With the scene set for murder, Anthony and Elva must now make sure the game works. Each player has to move around the mansion to work out the killer, the weapon and the room where the crime took place. They tested it out with friends and family who were only too glad to come along in the evenings during the war because it meant they had an entertaining evening when they'd just otherwise be listening to the wireless and looking at four walls. And one of those friends is a neighbour called Geoffrey Bull, who'd previously invented the game Buccaneer.

21:27In 1943, he introduces Anthony to the manufacturer Waddingtons. It was immediate interest. They said that the more they played it, the more they liked it. And that they would take it up. But first, the cast is trimmed to six and the weapons updated. There are now 324 possible solutions. But there's something the company just doesn't like. My dad, he called it, not very imaginatively, murder with two exclamation marks. I suppose they felt Cluedo would be a much catchier title. It's a combination of Clue, which of course is what the game's about, and Ludo from the Latin I play. My dad, he admitted it changed for the better.

22:21The war and a shortage of materials delay the game's launch. And it's not until December 1949 that it appears on the shelves. It was produced in quite a small black and white, but not ostentatious or eye-catching box. But if Anthony's motive was money, the murder game doesn't quite make him a killing. In 1953, Waddingtons offered my dad£5 ,000 for the overseas rights to the sales. They had told him that they were very disappointed in the sales figures overseas, particularly America. Now, in 1953,£5 ,000 would have bought two respectable houses and a car. So he probably thought it was a responsible thing to do.

23:17But he had no way of knowing just what a phenomenon it would become. And it was that 1960s version, coloured red, with a figure of Sherlock Holmes on the front, which really increased the sales dramatically. Since its launch, more than 150 million copies have been sold around the world, including in the US, where it's known as Clue. Why is it so popular? Well, here's Marcia's hunch. Most of the population then and now, they're interested in murder mystery games. There are versions on the television, aren't there, with traitors. It is a lovely legacy and they've left a source of fun and entertainment for the whole family.

24:07So who did invent Cluedo? Well, from the evidence we've gathered, it was Mr and Mrs Pratt in their front room with a little imagination and some time on their hands. Marcia Lewis, the daughter of Anthony Pratt, inventor of the board game Cluedo. She was speaking to Jane Wilkinson. And if that evocative tale has whetted your appetite, you should look up our episode on the invention of Monopoly. That's another surprisingly gripping story. Find it by searching for BBC Witness History and then add the word Monopoly. True crime meets history with a twist in a new series of Lady Killers. Join me as we travel back in time to investigate the most astonishing lady killers of the 19th and 20th centuries.

24:51We visit the scene of the crime and we delve deep into their lives to ask, how did they do it? Why did they do it? What drove them to it? Watch Lady Killers with Lucy Worsley on BBC.com. It all starts with a subscription to BBC.com. Find out more at BBC.com slash unlimited.

25:13Still to come, a survivor of the Venezuelan mudslides of 1999 that left thousands dead. and from the early 2000s when the Taliban were not in power, the TV talent show Afghan Star. The events themselves were probably the biggest concerts you would have had in that country for a long time. We were getting like, you know, 300, 400 people into a recording. Before that, a moment from 1986, which foreshadowed some of the vulnerabilities of the modern world. This is the story of what's believed to be the world's first virus to infect a personal computer. As Jill Kersley now tells us, it had its origins in the minds of Computer Geek Brothers in Pakistan.

26:18is Basit Alvi, who was the co-author of this code, or so-called virus. That's Amjad Farooq Alvi, one of the brains behind the development of what is thought to be the first personal computer virus. It was named after his company. To understand how he became obsessed with computing, we need to go back to when he was growing up in Pakistan. When I was schooling, my father started our membership for the British Council Library. And I used to bunk my school and used to come to the library and read all electronics and computer books there. Skipping school paid off as he went on to get a degree in maths and physics.

27:03He and his brothers set up their company in a shop in Lahore. We started this business around 1983 by maintaining small computers, a British brand called Sinclair, that was created by Sir Clive Sinclair. He and his team set about launching the world's first compact personal computer. ZX80 is a complete computer. It plugs straight into a conventional television, straight into the aerial socket. There's no modification of the set. I was a sole service provider in Pakistan for those small home computers. Soon, Word started selling IBM PC compatibles. Computer maker IBM has been regarded as the electronics company which could not only match the Japanese but actually defeat them.

27:51I started selling and maintaining those computers also. Business was growing for the brothers, but Amjad couldn't stop messing around with computer coding. So I found one article that was about how to run two programs together while one is running in the front and one is running in the background. Somehow my mind struck that this can surprise people. So I thought why not to write something for a break if somebody is working on the computer for long. So just to entertain that person, a background program can pop up and start telling some story or reading a book. He continued to develop his fun programs, surprising his friends with different stories and phrases popping up on the screen whilst they were hard at work on their computers.

28:39Then we started working on hiding it so that nobody can see it. We developed this code and we left it. We became bored of it. Amjad and his brothers kept on writing and selling software. Business was good. We got an order from our friend who was a doctor when we discussed about the cost of it. He said we have a very limited budget so you try to develop this software at a very low price. I said okay, we can do that but the code will be our proprietor. You won't be able to sell or give to anyone else. We were not that good to write agreements and protect it in any legal way. There was no law, also in cyber laws in Pakistan during those days.

29:25I just warned him. I said, OK, I'll put a piece of code and if you will copy it, it will spread. So I warned him that you will never make a copy of this floppy. He said, OK, no problem. The warning was clear. If the software was copied, then the special code that Amjad and his brother Bassett had written into the program would spread to other computers. Amjad forgot about his project for the doctor. Then, one day, he was working late. So I work around 18 hours a day. When I have to sleep, I just drag myself from my chair to the mattress and I used to sleep there. So in the middle of night, somewhere around 2, 3 o 'clock in the morning, I receive a call and I picked up the phone and somebody was talking in English.

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30:13And she asked me, oh, is it brain computers? I said, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then I asked her, how can I help her? She said, I have a problem with my computer and it tells me to contact you. I was thinking, how come? Then I asked her, where are you calling from? She said, I'm calling from Florida, some university. I can't remember the name. So she said, oh, I was writing some article for my department newsletter. And suddenly it started giving me a problem. I was unable to save my file. So then it struck my mind, oh my God, you must be having the virus. Then I asked her, have you exchanged floppies or anything?

30:55She said, I don't give a damn, you just tell me how to get rid of this situation. I have to save my article right now. I also asked her how she got my contact. Then she told me that one of her colleagues who was good in computers, he digged into the floppy and he found my name and contact there. Remember that software that Amjad wrote for his doctor friend and clearly warned him not to copy? Well, somehow it must have been copied because the code on that software had spread to computers everywhere. It was the start of a virus and people all over the world were reading this message on their screen.

31:34Welcome to the dungeon. Copyright 1986. Basit and Amjad's Brain Computer Services 730 Lahore, Pakistan Phone 430 4432 530 Beware of this virus Contact us for vaccination It reached US, UK, Australia, China, Singapore The brain computer virus was spreading around the world So what exactly is a computer virus? BBC TV show The Net explained all in 1994. Viruses are bits of software code that can creep into your system and clone themselves. At the most harmless, they can just produce pretty pictures on your screen. But at the most pernicious, they can destroy all your data. Amjad knew that his brain virus was a harmless one, but not everyone thought that.

32:32Here's some of what Time magazine wrote in 1988. Using a binary editor, the computer equivalent of a high-powered magnifying glass, systems engineer Peter Schiedler examined the disk's contents line by line. What I saw wasn't pretty, says Schiedler. It was garbage, a real mess. Suddenly he spotted something that gave him a chill. Buried near Sector Zero, the disk's innermost circle, was evidence that the glitch was not a glitch at all, but a deliberate act of sabotage. That was not true. This virus was not, or this piece of code was not, intent to damage, steal or harm anything. There standing out amid a stream of random letters and numbers was the name and phone number of a Pakistani computer store and a message that read, in part, Welcome to the dungeon.

33:26Contact us for vaccination. Brain was thought to be the first virus for personal computers. And also the first and possibly the only virus to contain the genuine names and contact information of its creators. This was unusual because no one who wrote a harmful virus would want to be identified. Amjad and his brothers still work at their company, Brain, which is now a large telecommunications firm in Pakistan. We three are together by the grace of God. We enjoy our work. We make less money, but the amount of enjoyment we have is countless. This one small thing, which is so-called virus, is actually just a small thing in my whole career.

34:12Very, very small thing. Small thing, potentially huge ramifications. Protection against computer viruses is now a global multi-billion dollar industry. Amjad Farooq Alvi was speaking to Jill Kersley in 2023. Next, we're going to Venezuela, a country currently going through political upheaval. But this is not a story about politics and tension, because we're focusing on December 1999, when thousands of people perished in a natural disaster. Jen Dale has been hearing about the traumatic events from a survivor. Whole communities and thousands of lives have been simply overwhelmed by the tidal wave of mud that descended from the mountains.

34:55Only the strongest buildings remain standing in what's become the worst disaster in Venezuela this century. It's the 15th of December and torrential rain has been inundating the mountainous regions of Venezuela.

35:12We already had a lot of rain for several days, but we did not expect what was going to happen. The rain was really heavy and the drops were really big. It was very strange because I had never seen that before. We'd never experienced anything like it. Usually when it rains, the rain is lighter, not that heavy. Lady Crespo lives with her two young daughters, mother, sister and aunt, in the coastal state of Vargas, now known as La Guayra in the north of the country. There's no let-up in the rain, and later that day, flood water starts rushing down the road. It was muddy water. We could hear it was carrying big stones and huge trees.

35:59This water was brown, and it was moving very fast. I could see big vehicles floating by, and they were, most of them, completely destroyed. We also saw some animals like dogs, and I could hear a pig and horse screaming. Some houses were also getting taken by the water. We could hear a lot of people screaming and the noise of the stones falling down. It was destroying so many things. We had to abandon our house and to run to the neighbour's house. It was the worst natural disaster to hit the country for nearly two centuries. Unseasonal tropical rains caused it. Lady can only see what's happening when flashes of lightning illuminate the sky.

36:44I was really, really afraid. And I tried not to show it to my little daughters, because I didn't want them to be more afraid. I was so scared. So much fear went through me. It was such a disaster that my eyes couldn't believe what had happened. The floods trigger landslides, with a wall of water, boulders and debris coming down the side of the mountain. When dawn breaks the next day, ladies met with a terrifying sight. We call it the big brown wave. Because of the way that the water was running from the mountain, it was not straight. It was going in little circles. And that's why for us, it looked like a big snake was going down the mountain.

37:27When I think about it, the fear comes back. It was like a horror movie, you know? This type of movie is where you see a tsunami. It was actually not a blue wave, but it was a brownish wave. There was also a smell of sulfur. It was a very strong smell. Trying to escape the muddy floodwaters, strewn with scattered pieces of wreckage, Lady flees up a nearby hill. It was a desperate move. Some people were screaming, come up, come up. So we went up with my mother and my two children. And when we got up, we could see the whole city floating and all the water around it. We thought we were going to be safe up there, but when we were there, we realized it was worse.

38:12And we realized that it was not safe to stay there because we could also be swept away by mudslides. And the place where we were staying could fall away too. So we decided to go back down. We just couldn't distinguish anything because the brownish mud was everywhere. This whole region of Venezuela has been shattered. Roads lie in ruins. There's no fresh water and everyone who can is trying to leave. We really thank God that we could wake up and see the light of day. And so we thought that we could keep going. Once the water levels go down, Lady and her family manage to evacuate and end up at one of the refuge centres.

38:55The outside world is sending assistance. The Venezuelan government says it could take a decade to rebuild the damage. It cannot cope alone. Lady and her family are officially registered as victims of the Vargas tragedy. They spend Christmas in a shelter. We were very emotional because we were actually very thankful that we got a lot of help from the government, but also international help, and all the children could have some toys for Christmas, and we also had some food. Already 1 ,500 graves have been dug, but many thousands more will be needed. Bodies are being found all the time. The death toll keeps rising and long lists of people are still missing.

39:40Figures for how many people lost their lives in the floods and mudslides vary. Whilst the government at the time maintained it was 3 ,000, other estimates put it between 10 ,000 and 30 ,000. Many bodies were buried under mud, rocks or trees. tens of thousands more people were made homeless. We had to live with the feeling that many of our neighbours had probably been swept away by the flood. How many kids were lost? How many families were separated? I was lucky because none of my family was dead, but a lot of my neighbours were. We just lost material things.

40:20They spend four months in refuge centres, and in April 2000 end up in the capital, Caracas. The Poliedro of Caracas is a big place where they have concerts. And that's where they were set up. I didn't feel very safe there. And the same day that we arrived there, they threw out a guy that was raping women. There were thousands of people and there were a lot of people from all the villages around. And most of them I didn't know. I told my children that we were going to stay only one night and the next day we were going to go back to La Guaira because I was actually more afraid to stay there. I never let go of their hands.

41:00It was a very long night for me. Lady goes back to what remains of her home. It was half destroyed, actually. Half of the house was actually collapsed and half of the house still had the walls and we still had a roof. Everything we had built was completely destroyed. The only thing I could recover was two pictures of my daughters when they were doing sports. I was devastated when I had to explain to my daughters that we would have to clean up everything and that we would have to start all over again. We had to go ahead. Be brave to keep going. It took a long time for Lady to get her house back to normal.

41:41It took me four years. Of course, every time we had rain, we were fearing that it was going to happen again. Lady lives in a different house now, but she still has nightmares, and the sound of water brings it all back. And I need to specify that. As far as I am concerned, the noise of water flowing, or even from the sink, bothers me. I mean, we were so scared, and that's why today I think that if it was happening to me again, I would let the water take me away, even though it sounds cowardly. For us, as soon as we hear a little bit of rain, even normal rain, we go back to this day. Lady Crespo was speaking to Jen Dale.

42:30Next to one of South America's most celebrated sporting heroes. It was at the Portuguese Grand Prix in 1985 that the Brazilian Ayrton Senna won his first Formula One race, and he did it in dreadful and dangerous conditions. Senna's mechanic at Lotus, Chris Dinage, has been telling Guy Kilty about watching on from the pit lane. After the race, it was absolutely jubilant. It was a great day for him, great day for us, and the next chapter in a true world champion's career, which put him on the road to the successes that he had in the future. Chris Dinage, then just a year younger than Senna at 24, was one of the mechanics for Team Lotus.

43:12He watched in awe that day as the Brazilian negotiated torrential reign to win the race in stunning fashion, lapping all but one of his rivals on the way to victory.

43:26Senna's potential as a future world champion had been widely recognised for a couple of years before the Portuguese Grand Prix, but this was the first time he'd won on the sport's biggest stage. and he did it in a race that almost didn't happen because of the terrible weather it was so bad that towards the end even Senna had had enough he'd been making a few hand signals about getting the race stopped or we interpreted was getting the race stopped because we didn't have radios in those days but the officials cargled the course let the race go full distance so and every lap that goes by they seem to take longer and longer each lap and the last lap in particular is always, it always feels like it's twice as many minutes as it would be early on in the race.

44:12Chris started working with Ayrton Senna when the young driver joined Team Lotus for the 1985 Formula One season. They'd decided Senna was the man to take them back to glory and as soon as he joined, he started to make a difference. It was pretty clear that he was going to be a world champion and Team Lotus was desperate for him to do that in one of our cars. He played a big part in the development of the cars. The feedback we got from him was incredible. He was extremely accurate. He was single-mindedly going to be the world champion and he certainly had the raw talent. And then, of course, he gets everybody on side to make that happen.

44:51It wasn't a certainty he'd be able to get behind the wheel during that first season for Lotus, though. He'd had an episode of Bell's palsy, a condition that affects the facial muscles. The side of his face was collapsed and we weren't really sure whether he was going to recover from that. There was definitely some concern, but by the time we were ready to drive, he pretty much recovered. Senna was meticulous both on and off the track. He was interested in everything that was going on. He was interested in talking to his race mechanics. He was interested in talking to the fabricators, the composite guys.

45:30He was interested in talking to the guy who kept the place clean. If you have a Formula One driver who takes an interest in you, you're far more likely to take a bigger interest in him than somebody who turns up at 9.30 in the morning, gets in the car, finishes at 2 o 'clock, and by half past 2 he's gone without a buy or leave. If you have drivers like that, you're far less likely as a mechanic or as a fabricator or engineer to be prepared to go the extra mile, to be prepared to work all night. And Ayrton was incredibly good at doing that and getting people on the side. Despite all the hype and preparation, Senna failed to finish the first race of the season in front of his home crowd in Brazil.

46:18For the second race, the team headed to Portugal. When he woke up on race day, April 21st, 1985, Chris saw little sign of the dreadful weather conditions to come. I recall it being a little bit overcast. There was talk of rain, we weren't sure how much. Then, of course, come race time, it was torrential and it didn't ease off, it got worse and worse and worse.

46:48The conditions in Estoril on the 21st of April were probably some of the worst I've witnessed. There were floods across the circuit.

47:01So what is it about rain that makes it so difficult to drive in? The biggest challenge of those conditions is just the pure lack of grip. And you don't know from lap to lap, when it's raining, how much water's going to be on the track, even the next lap around, because there's just so much water. So the whole thing is a challenge.

47:24Despite the awful weather, Senna started the race brilliantly. By the end of the first lap, he had opened up a lead, and by lap 10, he was 13 seconds ahead of the rest of the field, as driver after driver had to retire. Even Alan Prost, one of the greatest drivers of all time, spun off on one of the straights. It was a masterful piece of driving, and Ayrton had an ability to use half of his capability, half of his capacity to drive a racing car faster than anybody else, which left him with another 50 % of his capacity to be aware of what was going on around him and being able to just log all that information that was in front of him, where the damp patches were, where the rivers were, where some of the other guys had gone off.

48:11He would have been logging all of that lap by lap just to give him the edge that he regularly had. Eton himself said, you know, there were two or three times when he had such a close-run thing for actually leaving the track, but managed to keep it all together.

48:31Powering round the track faster than everyone else, Senna lapped all of the other cars bar one. The race was supposed to be 70 laps, but at the beginning of Senna's 67th, it had gone over the two-hour time limit allowed for the race, so he was given the signal that he had one final lap to go. Senna crossed the line at the end of that 67th lap more than a minute ahead of the driver in second place to complete his astonishing victory Afterwards, Senna calmly summed up how difficult the conditions were It was a very hard race I could not see anything in front of me With the cars going in front, it was impossible to see anything and you had to go by because it was a big difference in the pace that I was going Now, more than four decades on from Senna's breathtaking win in Estoril, what does it mean to Chris that he was there for the first of his 41 Grand Prix victories?

49:29It was a massive excitement when he finally crossed the line and wheel-jumped over to pit wall and ran out onto the track. He's always maintained that that was the most difficult Grand Prix he ever won because there were no driver aids. It was driver, steering wheel, gear shift and clutch brake and accelerator. his ability to concentrate 100 % and just be aware of what the grip was the lap before if he was a foot away from the curb on the previous lap and felt there might have been a little bit more grip if he'd been right next to the curb on the current one he'd be looking and looking for all those little bits of information to keep him going and keep him going quick and you know he never stopped concentrating for a single minute, not till he crossed the line.

50:15If he'd started at the back, he would have probably still won, provided no one took him out on the way through. He really was in a total class of his own. On the 1st of May 1994, Ayrton Senna was killed after his car crashed into a concrete barrier while he was leading the San Marino Grand Prix at the Imola circuit in Italy. That's an emotional topic. I'm sure he would have been in the eight or nine world championship victories window that Lewis and Schumacher have achieved I'm sure Etten would have achieved the same thing Unfortunately we didn't get to witness any of that So we're left with his memories, his victories, his personality

51:05Chris Dinich was speaking to Guy Kilty and remembering the first Grand Prix win for Ayrton Senna. Finally this week, we have another of our cultural moments from the past, but this is one which is very much tied into politics and religion. For this, we're going to Afghanistan in the early 2000s for the launch of a controversial and yet hugely popular television show, as Tim O 'Callaghan explains. In 2005, people in Afghanistan were introduced to a phenomenon that was gripping the Western world, singing competitions on TV that the public could vote for.

51:43The show was called Afghan Star and was inspired by programmes like Britain's pop idol or France's Nouvelle Star. Jahid Mohseni was the development producer. I think pretty early on we sensed that it was going to be pretty big. Throughout the whole process, people were ringing up and complaining about why we're letting these untalented people on air and letting them sing, etc. A lot of complaints. And then somewhere around the top five, it moved from people ringing to complaining to people saying, hey, you should make sure this guy wins because he's very good. I was like, yes, it's hooking in.

52:20People are kind of understanding it. The thing that made Afghan Star impressive was that it was made in a country that was recovering from years of turmoil. In 1979, the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, leading to 10 years of war against militant Islamic forces called the Mujahideen. After the Soviets left, the country collapsed into civil war. The Taliban gained control of the capital Kabul and the majority of the country in 1996 and enforced a strict interpretation of Islamic Shahi 'a law. The Taliban's political and social grip over the areas they control is absolute. They've executed opponents and displayed their bodies publicly.

53:04And they've shown what they think of women's place in society by closing girls' schools and banning women from work. Basically, music was banned under the Taliban. Listening to music satellite was banned. classic images of videotapes and audiotapes being strung up from wires etc. So anyone listening to music was listening underground. Then on the 11th of September 2001 everything changed. You're listening to the BBC World Service. I'm Lise Doucette. There have been terrorist attacks in the United States. In New York two airplanes have deliberately crashed into the twin towers of the World Trade Center.

53:42Both towers have collapsed. The 9-11 attacks on the United States of America were planned by the head of the al-Qaeda terror group, Osama bin Laden, who was based in Afghanistan. After the Taliban refused to hand him over to the US, an invasion was launched by the Americans with NATO allies alongside anti-Taliban Afghans. By December 2001, the Taliban had been removed from power in Kabul and the majority of the country. Yahid and his family had left Afghanistan just before the Soviet invasion, moving to Australia. They decided to return and set up a media company. Historically, music has been a big part of Afghan tradition.

54:27And we saw that as an opportunity, and all the media that was being set up was very news-focused, and you could almost feel the weight on people's shoulders of listening to news for the last 30 years at that stage of war and what have you. And the music industry was kind of destroyed. We started off with a music format and then it was pretty obvious within the first few weeks that there's going to be a lot of issues unless we build up the local music industry. We had a top 40 program and of the top 10, basically like seven would be Indian or Iranian or Turkish songs. So yeah, from there, Afghan stars seemed like a simple format to try to find new talent on the ground in Afghanistan that can do music and we sort of try to nurture it.

55:14Starting a show like this in a country where the media had been severely restricted wasn't easy. On purpose, we didn't pick up anyone with TV experience because the people who had media and TV experience generally worked for the national television and they were still living in the 80s in terms of how they approached things. so we're dealing with young kids probably in the early 20s with little understanding of broader media and just smart kids willing to do things and try things out through the school of hard knocks of production effectively i mean again none of these people had any idea of production and you know people were like bricklayers or taxi drivers that come in and they're like oh you're in charge of this show and we're going to run around and do stuff and um yeah so through that we ended up having like pretty good producers that technically didn't have any training but were able to pick up shows and manage to do some leading show in a country with a lot of pressure from everyone and being able to get that up and running.

56:09And I'd argue probably harder than it is in the West because you're dealing with multiple levels of difficulty, not just getting people there in studio on time, but is the power working and is it going to get shut down? Afghan Star followed a similar format to other singing talent shows. There were the auditions, with the usual mix of talented and not-so-talented people taking part.

56:49Three judges then decided who made it through to the public voting round of the contest. People would then text in each week with who they wanted to win. From the West, the assumption is that this thing is like American Idol type thing, but it was really not. It was in some ways more towards MasterChef than it was American Idol, you know, where we're trying to push through positivity of music and unity of the country. And also, whenever you take up formats, there's a lot of limitations on what you can do. And we want to have that freedom to be able to adjust things based on the culture. and we didn't have the money anyway.

57:24We were under extreme tight budgets and ultimately I think it made much more sense to do it that way where we had an ability to adjust. Televisions were also becoming a staple feature in people's homes. Multi-generational households were tuning in to watch and the show became a big hit. By the third series, an estimated 11 million people were watching each episode. The events themselves were probably the biggest concerts you would have had in that country for a long time. We were getting like, you know, three, four hundred people into a recording. But basically, a lot of these guys would become somewhat famous, then they would go and get invited to sing in weddings and receptions and other things.

58:04So they start earning an income and people will pay sometimes quite a bit of money to come in and perform. And through those processes and film clips and other things, I think we went from like zero music domestically being produced in Afghanistan to maybe more than 50 % of our music that we were broadcasting were Afghans in Afghanistan producing that music. And in series 14, history was made.

58:42Zahra Alam was the first female winner of the competition, a watershed moment for the country. However, the success of the show and the chance for women to sing and dance on television came to an abrupt end in 2021. The headlines this morning, the Taliban is preparing to take over the running of Afghanistan. The government in Kabul has collapsed. There is chaos at Kabul's international airport where hundreds of Afghans have been trying to catch flights to safety. The return of the Taliban have seen the musical scene that blossomed during their absence crushed. Musicians have fled the country and playing music and musical instruments have been banned.

59:21I think the show had an impact. That impact doesn't just go away. It had an impact on generations, particularly the younger generation, the generation that are going to be the leaders in 10, 15 years. We, on purpose, set up an international music that's creating music for more for the diaspora, but trying to keep that music industry alive because, you know, ultimately, I think Afghans want music. They prefer to listen to Afghan music rather than Western music or Turkish, Iranian or Indian music. so ideally we don't end up in a scenario where if it becomes legal again or people are able to listen again that we're starting everything from scratch again.

1:00:01Yahid Moussaini was the development producer for Afghan Star and is now the chief operating officer of the Mobi Media Group. He was speaking to Tim O 'Callaghan. And that's it for this edition of the History Hour. As ever, don't forget to look at our website if you can. There's a fantastic range of first-hand stories from the past there. Just search for bbc.com slash witness history. And we'll be back with more for you next week. So until then, this is Max Pearson from all of us here. Thanks for listening. Goodbye. From the brilliant and bizarre. It was really surreal. It was a surreal kind of atmosphere there.

1:00:37You couldn't really see anybody. To the shocking and unexpected. I'm just wondering, what are we going to do now? This was really my worst fear. He found 100 % horse meat that was labelled as beef. witness the stories that have shaped our world told by the people who were there when he went to the factory the poodle went in front of him so the workers only all the bosses here many people had many things to lose by our victory the future was not so bright witness history we had a designer he brought in a fully storyboarded idea about how the queen would arrive by jumping out of a helicopter and we all said that's brilliant but it's never going to happen witness history at bbcworldservice.com slash witness history or wherever you get your podcasts true crime meets history with a twist in a new series of lady killers join me as we travel back in time to investigate the most astonishing lady killers of the 19th and 20th centuries we visit the scene of the crime and we delve deep into their lives to ask how did they do it?

1:01:45Why did they do it? What drove them to it? Watch Lady Killers with Lucy Worsley on BBC.com It all starts with a subscription to BBC.com Find out more at BBC.com slash unlimited

From the publisher

Max Pearson presents a collection of the week's Witness History interviews from the BBC World Service.

Our guest is food historian Dr Annie Gray.

She discusses the impact of the first modern, fitted kitchen - the Frankfurt Kitchen - on the kitchens of today. It all goes back to 1926 and the reluctant Austrian architect Margarete Schütte-Lihotzky who said she wanted to be remembered for more than designing a "damned" kitchen. Sorry Margarete.

Next is the invention of the board game Cluedo, or Clue in the United States, which stemmed from playing the piano at murder mystery parties in English country houses and hotels in the 1930s.

Then, we enter the murky world of computer viruses. The first one to affect personal computers in 1986 became known as 'Brain'.

We hear from a survivor of the deadly mudslides which affected Venezuela in December 1999.

A Lotus mechanic gives his account of Brazilian racing star Ayrton Senna's first Formula 1 win in 1985.

And finally, a glimpse into a period of freedom in Afghanistan from 2005 when a TV musical talent contest called Afghan Star gripped audiences.

Contributors:

Christine Zwingl - architect.

Marcia Lewis - daughter of the creators of Cluedo.

Amjad Farooq Alvi - founder of Brain Computers.

Leydys Crespo - survivor of Venezuelan mudslides in 1999.

Chris Dinnage - Ayrton Senna's mechanic.

Jahid Mohseni - the development producer for Afghan Star.

(Picture: A 1950s fitted kitchen. Credit: Getty Images)

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