The discovery of the Terra Nova shipwreck and Echo the elephant

4 Apr 2026 · 1 h 1 min · 26 chapters

Ask about this episode

Ask anything about it. ChatGPT or Claude reads this page and answers with the times it was said.

Connect VO and ask about every podcast you hear, including the moments you saved. Add to ChatGPT · Add to Claude

In short

Discovery of the Terra Nova shipwreck using sonar; plus stories on Picasso’s Guernica returning to Spain, the invention of the vape, Echo the celebrity elephant, and a parachutist intruder in a 1993 heavyweight title fight.

Guests/backgrounds

Oceanographer Leighton Raleigh (Cardiff; Schmidt Ocean Institute survey leader) interviewed by Megan Jones. Maritime archaeologist Dr Sarah Ward (Australian National University). Food entrepreneur Klaus Meyer (New Nordic Cuisine/Noma) interviewed by Ben Henderson. Historian Jane Wilkinson (Guernica, Echo). Pharmacist Hon Lik (inventor of the Ruyan electronic cigarette) interviewed by Megan Jones. Elephant researcher Dr Cynthia Moss (Amboseli Elephant Research Project) interviewed by Jane Wilkinson. Nevada State Athletic Commission executive Mark Ratner interviewed by Jen Dale.

Key claims/examples

Terra Nova wreck found in 16 minutes with multi-beam sonar; confirmation via camera frame showing distinct funnel, steam whistles, and deck layout; Greenlandic government protected it as a museum. Ward cites UNESCO’s estimate of ~3 million shipwrecks; “information is the treasure.” Guernica returned after 44 years; Picasso demanded it only when democracy returned; handover required secret negotiations and proof of ownership. Hon Lik created nicotine vapor device after nightmares from nicotine patches; WHO skepticism followed; some countries later banned e-cigarettes. Echo’s radio-collared family made her a matriarch; drought killed 400+ elephants including Echo in 2009. “Fan Man” James Miller parachuted into Holyfield-Bowe in 1993, causing a 20+ minute stoppage.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

Tap a time to open that second in VO

Exploring the Shipwreck Story

2:27 to 3:06

Delve into the intriguing story of the Terra Nova shipwreck.

“We are standing before a tragedy, and if it were possible to capture what it says, it would freeze the blood in our veins.”

Discovery of the Terra Nova Shipwreck

3:06 to 4:59

Learn about the significant moments of the discovery process.

“In 2012, a team of researchers discovered the wreck of one of the most famous polar vessels.”

Sonar Technology and the Seabed Mapping

4:59 to 7:12

Understand how sonar was used to locate the wreck.

“But before that, the Terranova was one of the finest polar vessels of its time.”

Emotional Moments of Discovery and Celebration

7:12 to 10:59

Experience the emotions surrounding the discovery and celebration of the wreck.

“They begin the survey, or mapping as it's called.”

The Protection of the Terra Nova Wreck

10:59 to 13:14

Discuss the efforts to protect the Terra Nova as a historic site.

“permitting process, we have to inform the authorities before it gets out to everyone else.”

Maritime Archaeology Insights

13:14 to 14:00

Gain insights into the field of maritime archaeology and shipwrecks.

“And there's a real drive at the moment to have all nations ratify that.”

The Vasa: A Maritime Marvel

14:00 to 15:30

Learn about the history and significance of the Vasa shipwreck.

“I've been to Stockholm and been to the Vasa and I believe you worked on that.”

Klaus Meyer and New Nordic Cuisine

15:30 to 17:10

Discover Klaus Meyer's role in revolutionizing Nordic cooking.

“And to my knowledge, it's the only ship that's been able to float effectively under its own weight.”

Childhood Influences on Culinary Passion

17:10 to 19:20

Explore Klaus Meyer's challenging childhood and its impact on his culinary journey.

“New Nordic cuisine made the Nordic countries, and Copenhagen in particular, a foodie paradise.”

The Birth of Noma and Its Philosophy

19:20 to 22:50

Understand the founding principles behind Noma and its mission.

“They would feed me the most amazing stuff from morning to the afternoon.”
Show all 26 chapters

The Impact and Controversies of Noma

22:50 to 24:50

Examine Noma's successes and the controversies surrounding its leadership.

“But now, New Nordic Cuisine had to deliver in the kitchen, and boy did it deliver.”

The Story of Guernica

25:59 to 28:00

Uncover the historical significance of Picasso's painting Guernica.

“Still to come, the Chinese pharmacist who invented the vape, and Echo, the celebrity elephant at the heart of a longitudinal study of the species.”

The Impact of Guernica: Picasso's Reaction

28:00 to 29:29

Explore how Pablo Picasso was inspired by the bombing of Guernica to create his iconic mural.

“Troops led by General Francisco Franco are fighting to overturn the democratically elected Republican government.”

Picasso's Legal Battle Over Guernica

29:30 to 30:09

Learn about Picasso's determination to retain Guernica outside of Franco's Spain.

“He wanted that Guernica comes to Spain when the freedoms, les libertés démocratiques, are restored.”

The Quest for Ownership Documents

30:10 to 31:38

Follow the complicated journey to secure ownership documents for Guernica.

“and Rafael Fernández Quintanilla is asked to join the talks, as he explained to the BBC in 1981.”

The Transfer of Guernica: Challenges and Secrecy

31:39 to 34:20

Understand the secretive negotiations and challenges leading to the painting's return to Spain.

“I left with little hope, but three months later, he found me asking me to come to Geneva because he had something to show me.”

Guernica's Historic Return to Spain

34:21 to 35:28

Witness the emotional return of Guernica to Spanish soil after decades in exile.

“As Rafael later wrote in his memoir, Laudicea del Genica.”

The Invention of the Electronic Cigarette

35:56 to 40:30

Learn about the creation of the electronic cigarette and its journey to market.

“but less glamorous alternative, but one which has become extremely popular.”

The Rise of E-Cigarettes: Popularity and Controversy

40:31 to 42:05

Examine the explosive growth of e-cigarettes and the debates surrounding their safety.

“This test took a long time and cost a lot of money.”

Debating the Legitimacy of E-Cigarettes

42:05 to 43:34

Explore the evolving perceptions and debates surrounding e-cigarettes and their risks.

“In 2008, the World Health Organisation said it does not consider e-cigarettes a legitimate therapy for smokers trying to quit.”

Introduction to Echo the Elephant

43:34 to 43:57

Learn about Echo, a celebrated elephant and the star of a long-term study in Kenya.

“So this sense of achievement is enormous.”

The Longitudinal Study of Elephants

43:57 to 45:49

Discover the beginnings of a groundbreaking study of wild elephants led by Dr. Cynthia Moss.

“Our final story this week will be added to the group you can find under the heading Animals Who Made History.”

Tracking Echo: The Use of Radio Collars

45:49 to 47:50

Understand how scientists tracked Echo and her family using innovative technology.

“and in April 1974 they spotted the perfect family.”

Echo's Life and Challenges

47:50 to 49:53

Follow Echo's journey as she faces challenges and triumphs through motherhood and environmental threats.

“She clearly was the leader, and they were a very vocal family.”

Echo's Legacy and Impact

49:53 to 51:44

Reflect on Echo's impact on elephant research and conservation as her story comes to a close.

“Over the next decades, Echo would help raise four generations of her family, protecting them from attacks by lions, conflicts with local farmers and the effects of famine.”

The Fan Man Incident in Boxing History

56:00 to 1:01:28

Learn about the bizarre parachuting incident during a boxing match and its ramifications.

“American James Miller is wearing a white helmet, black gloves and a red jumpsuit.”
Hear the part that matters, and keep it.Open this episode in VO. Double tap your headphones to save a moment as you listen.
Get VO free

Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

0:29CFO. LinkedIn has a word for that. Bull spend. Now you can invest in what looks good to your CFO. LinkedIn ads generates the highest ROAS of all major ad networks. You'll reach the right buyers because you can target by company, industry, job title, and more. So cut the bull spend. Advertise on LinkedIn, the network that works for you. Spend$250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a 250 credit for the next one. Just go to linkedin.com slash broadcast. That's linkedin.com slash broadcast. Terms and conditions apply.

1:28Mango Yuzu Chantilly Cake. Great for brunch or an after-dinner treat. Speaking of brunch, check out their deviled eggs, cold-pressed juices, and more. Spring is in bloom now at Whole Foods Market. We did something that no one else had ever done. There was such an excitement and energy about this moment. It opened the door for everything that rapidly followed. Witness history. History as told. By the people who were there. I was walking in space. The first man ever to do so. I felt almost insignificant, like a tiny ant compared to the immensity of the universe. Witness History from the BBC World Service.

2:09Listen now. Search for Witness History wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

2:20Hello and welcome to the History Hour with Max Pearson, this week's BBC World Service Witness History stories. Coming up, the long journey that finally took Picasso's Guernica to Spain. We are standing before a tragedy, and if it were possible to capture what it says, it would freeze the blood in our veins. Plus, the invention of the vape, lessons from a famous elderly elephant, and the man behind the rise and rise of new Nordic cuisine. My ambition was not to build a world-class restaurant. My ambition was to truly impact the everyday cooking culture in Denmark, and why not in the Nordics? That's all coming up later.

3:03But before that, we've got a good old-fashioned shipwreck story. In 2012, a team of researchers discovered the wreck of one of the most famous polar vessels. The Terra Nova had played a significant part in the history of exploration, most notably as the ship that took Scott of the Antarctic on his doomed early 20th century expedition to the South Pole. The oceanographer Leighton Rolly has been telling Megan Jones how he and the rest of his crew used sound waves to find the hidden wreck. It was amazing to start that. There was this sense of, wow, we're here, we're finally doing it. There was a palatable excitement on board, but there was also this worry about, would we find it?

3:44It's four o 'clock in the morning on the 12th of July, 2012. A group of around 30 scientists, technicians and crew are on board the FALCOR, a new research vessel from the Schmidt Ocean Institute. They're travelling from Newcastle, a city in England, to the United States via Greenland. In the distance you can see all these mountains covered in snow and it's truly picturesque. The sea was flat calm and there was icebergs drifting on the current, some really big ones. And that got us worried. oceanographer Leighton Raleigh who's from Cardiff the capital of Wales is part of the still half asleep group this is the ship's first long voyage so they're testing some of the technology in an area around 12 by 5 nautical miles which is about 20 by 10 kilometers every mission that we do in the deep ocean we generally find new species it's pretty cool there is so much that we don't know about the deep ocean.

4:41It's not a coincidence they've picked this spot though, as it's also where they think the shipwreck of the Terranova might lie. We were able to get records from the US Coast Guard and slowly narrowed down the location of where that wreck was. A wreck no one's laid eyes on since it sunk almost 70 years earlier. But before that, the Terranova was one of the finest polar vessels of its time. Let me give you some quick facts about her. She was built way back in 1884 in Dundee, Scotland, with a thick wooden frame and was about 57 metres long. That's about 187 feet. Her most famous passengers, Captain Robert Scott and his team.

5:22In 1910, she set off from Wales and dropped them off in Antarctica for their South Pole expedition. And although they made it to the pole, they were beaten there by a Norwegian team. On the way back, Scott and his men died, never making it back to the Terranova. The ship kept sailing for decades, but was damaged by ice while carrying supplies to the United States during World War II. In 1943, after nearly 60 years at sea, she sank. Today, Leighton and the team might finally get to see the shipwreck. He's ready and dressed for the occasion. It's amazing you brought this up. Someone had bought me this sailor's jacket, a very distinct sailor's hat and a pipe.

6:04It was from the same period as the Terranova. and as a bet I had to wear this during the survey. The survey Leighton's talking about is complicated so stay with me. It uses sound waves to see the seabed, something called sonar. You know if you're in an area and you shout out with your voice and you get an echo back and you go hello, hello and you hear it coming back. So you can figure out in the sea the depth by firing sound. It hits the seabed and comes back up. Sonar is like an echo. Send sound waves down into the water, hear it bounce back and find the depth. The team are using something more advanced though called multi-beam, which uses hundreds of sound waves.

6:47They're a turn time building a 3D picture of the seabed. The device is mounted on the hull of the vessel, so underneath, looking at the seabed and firing that sound downwards. So the ship just travels at a set speed, which is say around 5 miles an hour, firing that sound and making a three-dimensional image of the seabed. They haven't got long to search though, as they've only given themselves less than 24 hours before moving on to the next mission. They begin the survey, or mapping as it's called. One minute passes, five, six, ten minutes pass. The conversation turns to flags. We'd also decorated the control room with flags and we'd taken flags from all the different nations that the Terra Nova had flown under, all which was relevant to that project.

7:37So we had a Welsh flag, because it sailed from Wales. The other was the City of Cardiff flag. There was a Scottish flag. There was an American flag. There was the Antarctic flag. There was the flag of Newfoundland, but we also had a Canadian flag. 15 minutes pass, then 16 minutes. It was ups and downs, started with real anticipation, They just started to feel like we weren't going to find anything. Hours later, they review the day's data, looking for anything unusual. On the screen, a grainy sweep of green, red and yellow. One section looks different. It stands out. So they process it further.

8:18When we were processing that data, we were like, ooh, what is that thing on the seabed there? They call in an expert who says... I'm going to say this is a 57-metre-long shipwreck. We were looking for a ship that was 57 metres long. So at that point, we got really, really excited. We found it in 16 minutes with the ship systems, but we'd missed that. You know, we'd been talking and we didn't expect to find it that quick. It felt like that ship wanted to be found. Of all the shipwrecks that I've ever done, that one really wanted to be found. They can't celebrate yet as time is running out. Before leaving, they need more proof.

8:56The grainy image hints at a 57-metre-long wreck, but is it really the Terra Nova? We got basically this metal frame with cameras on and we lowered it down and there was a lot of current. We were trying to place it over the wreck. Because this was a new research vessel, they only had basic kit, so there was no way to watch the images live. It was when we brought the cameras back on board, downloaded the data and pressed play. It was like seabed, seabed. Oh, something on the seabed. Very much like when you see the Titanic video, where they see the boilers for the first time, and they're like, ah, what's that?

9:34It was one of those moments, that's man-made, that's, someone's made that, that's not a rock. The Terra Nova, if you see a picture of it, she's got a very distinct funnel. And on this funnel, there were steam whistles that were visible. And then it went right across the working deck, which is the main center of the vessel, where the cargo hatches are. There were masts lying down, and deck winches and they matched the pictures we had at the Terranova. It was a lot of emotion and then everyone wanted speeches to say that we'd completed this and it was overwhelming in many ways. Before the speeches they marked the moment, lowering biodegradable flags onto the wreck, including a Welsh one, a nod to where Scott began his doomed expedition.

10:18We also had a plaque that was a wooden one with a brass inscription on to Captain Scott and his team who perished on the expedition. Flags lowered onto the wreck it was finally time to celebrate, but even collected chunks of ice from nearby icebergs. I think a few people dropped a few pieces in their champagne, although it's not the standard thing you would do, but how often do you get to have, you know, 100 ,000-year-old ice in a drink? It was a moment to savour, but the discovery had to stay a secret, at least for now. I sent a cryptid note to my dad that we'd found it, but because of obligations in the permitting process, we have to inform the authorities before it gets out to everyone else.

11:05What did you say to him? I said, mission complete. for Leighton even though mission was complete it wasn't the end of the Terranova's story the other thing that we did was lobbying the Greenlandic government for protection of the Terranova it is a historic wreck and it falls in their water initially that was quite difficult they weren't sure what legislation existed for protecting the Terranova and I think in the end they made it a kind of museum so that it was protected. So the Terra Nova is now a protected wreck. The oceanographer Leighton Raleigh was speaking to Megan Jones. Of course, the Terra Nova is just one story from the deep.

11:51Around the world, there are many, many more. Dr. Sarah Ward is a maritime archaeologist from the Australian National University. So, Sarah, do we know how many shipwrecks there are out there still to be found? Thanks, Max. That's an excellent question. We have figures from UNESCO, which estimate around 3 million shipwrecks worldwide. Three million. If so many, does that mean that there's, if you like, a lot of value, treasure lying in the deep? For archaeologists, the information is the treasure. We have a huge amount of information that we can learn about the past from that kind of submerged resource.

12:29But there will also be treasure, treasure. Yeah, there is likely gold, silver, bullion. There are many navies that were carrying treasure, treasure from one place to another. There was a Dutch East Indieman, the Roesweig in the English Channel, which had silver bars. And actually, the first time that was investigated was an attempt by the Dutch finance ministry to recover that. So you've surveyed shipwrecks all over the place. Do archaeologists like you decide which ones are historically significant on the basis of some sort of a league table? Yes and no. So depending on where we are in the world, it depends on what legislation we're governed by.

13:14And UNESCO, I mention it again because they have this convention for the protection of underwater cultural heritage. And there's a real drive at the moment to have all nations ratify that. And that protects all kind of shipwrecks and all human remains that have been underwater for 100 years or more. But that is really a separate issue from whether something is significant or not. So it can be old but not significant. Or like the Terra Nova, it may be younger than 100 years but hugely significant. And if there are league tables of the best shipwrecks to be investigated, I suppose there must also be, if you like, a league table of the best raised shipwrecks or shipwreck museums to go to if you can possibly do so.

14:03I've been to Stockholm and been to the Vasa and I believe you worked on that. It's astonishing. Yeah, as a student and I was very fortunate to be able to go inside the ship and it is absolutely spectacular. The Vasa sank in Stockholm Harbour in around, I think, 1628. It sank on its maiden voyage, which I would say is a little bit embarrassing for the Swedes because this was the king's flagship. It was wildly decorated. It was really a huge investment for Sweden at that time. And it arguably went down because it was carrying too many guns. The king wanted it larger and more well armed. It's like when we want an extra scoop of ice cream and we keep demanding more ice cream.

14:55He was demanding more guns. This was, for him, the largest, most expensive ship. It gave him pride of place. Yes, it's a warship. Yes, it's a military vessel. Yes, it's being used for diplomacy and warmongering. But this is really the status symbol about how the king sees himself and how he sees his kingdom. And it went down, as you say, on the maiden voyage, rested on the bottom of the harbour for many, many decades, but was raised in the 1960s in a quite remarkable operation. Yeah, absolutely. 333 years on the seabed. And to my knowledge, it's the only ship that's been able to float effectively under its own weight.

15:39So the hull was fully intact. The masts are fully intact. What you see in the museum now is all authentic, except for some of the rope has been reconstructed. I think it's the most spectacular ship that we have that's been recovered in terms of the integrity of fabric, the intactness of that, the carvings. There's still paint, like remnants of the paint that was covering these carvings. It really is kind of living history. That's Dr Sarah Ward, a maritime archaeologist from the Australian National University. Back on dry land, in 2004, a Danish food entrepreneur called Klaus Meyer launched the Nordic Kitchen Manifesto.

16:25It started a revolution in Nordic cooking focused on local seasonal ingredients, and it earned Noma, the restaurant Klaus opened, worldwide fame. Ben Henderson has the story of New Nordic Cuisine and its leading proponent. Most people who come here for a long weekend come to try the New Nordic Cuisine. It's taken the world by storm. We look for wild foraged foods that grow on the land that are not just farmed. Next, we're trying a soup made from the leaves of a birch tree, boiled and mixed into cream. Yes, it's moss and buds, flowers and bark, berries and leaves. This is a salted reindeer heart.

17:11New Nordic cuisine made the Nordic countries, and Copenhagen in particular, a foodie paradise. But that wasn't always the case.

17:21My upbringing was in the 1960s, 1970s. And a typical meal in my childhood would be a cheap piece of meat. breaded not once but two or three times and then deep fried in cheap margarine and it would typically be served with a good amount of vegetables pre-boiled five six years before in eastern europe and then boiled once more to death in our kitchen interesting and would you say that's characteristic of danish meals at the time you know in other families as well I mean, more or less, yes. This is food entrepreneur Klaus Meyer. He'd go on to be one of the driving forces behind New Nordic Cuisine, but it all started with his difficult relationship with his parents.

18:10I have no memory of my father loving me or even appreciating me. And they got divorced when I was either 13 or 14 years old. and my mother, as a result of that, became an alcoholic. Klaus escaped family life when, as a teenager, he got a job in France and ended up staying in the southwestern province of Gascony with a French couple, a pastry chef called Guy and his wife.

18:43They treated me like a son and I realised that they had always wanted to have a son. So we were an incredible match, and Guy became like a spiritual father to me.

18:57It is in Gascony, in Agin, that I really get to understand the French concept of terroir, that you eat food that is deeply integrated in the history and the climate conditions of a certain place. And also, I saw, I mean, how much attention these two people were paying to the daily meals. This pastry shop was like a wizard's workshop. They would feed me the most amazing stuff from morning to the afternoon. And I just asked myself, what the hell is going on? I mean, why? This is supposed to be an underdeveloped sort of rural part of France, whereas Denmark is supposed to represent the future. So it really puzzled me how we could somehow be having given up on the beauty of life and the joy of everyday living that I got a glimpse of in Gascony.

19:56I had found a calling. I wanted to go back to Denmark and develop a recipe for changing the Danish food culture. Klaus returned to Denmark and over the next two decades he became a famous television chef steeped in French cooking traditions but a conversation in 2001 set him on a new course Guy, this father figure of mine from back in France he dies in late 2002 and we have I think our last conversation in 2001 and he, I mean it's a very emotional conversation obviously because we both know where things are going So he tells me that he believes that I've been an incredible ambassador for French food in Denmark, but also that enough is enough.

20:38And he deeply felt the time now for me had come to take a more professional and deep interest in the potential of forming a brand new cuisine, a brand new food culture. Klaus bought a venue in an old warehouse by Copenhagen's Inner Harbour and set up a fine dining restaurant. It would be called Noma, a portmanteau of the Danish words for Nordic food, and it would only use ingredients from around the Nordic region. His plan was to use it as a vehicle for this brand new local cuisine. But Noma didn't attract much attention at first, which got Klaus thinking. I started wondering about what does it mean to create a new cuisine?

21:19What does a new cuisine mean? And then in order to explore that question, I called up my kind of mentor that I had, Jan Kau Jakobsen, who back in the days was president for the Danish Astronomic Academy. And we started in between us just having coffee and cognac and a bit of food and just contemplating on what is a great cuisine and which were the great cuisines of the past, which are the values that we should then lean on. So we asked that kind of question and that thought process helped us get the first words on paper. Klaus slowly drafted a manifesto for New Nordic Cuisine. Some of its core principles were freshness, simplicity, animal welfare, health and localism, including the use of local ingredients dictated by the seasons and local supply chains.

22:08Klaus got as many influential people on board as he could. Journalists and critics were wined and dined. He invited the Nordic country's most renowned chefs to an all-day meeting to get their buy-in. The Nordic Kitchen Manifesto was officially launched at an event in Copenhagen in November 2004, with politicians and business leaders from across the Nordic countries in attendance. So the Nordic chefs were totally fired up and they were each given the opportunity to read one of the 10 points from the manifesto loud in front of this incredible audience. And now they kind of said that we are going to change our food ways in accordance with this concept.

22:48The manifesto got buy-in from politicians and significant government funding. Klaus had pulled off a marketing coup. But now, New Nordic Cuisine had to deliver in the kitchen, and boy did it deliver. The San Pellegrino world's best restaurant 2010 is Noma. Noma's since won the award another four times. Meanwhile, New Nordic Cuisine is credited with shifting global dining away from the importation of products and towards its core tenets, sustainability, seasonality and localism.

23:25My ambition was not to build a world-class restaurant. My ambition was to truly impact the everyday cooking culture in Denmark and why not in the Nordics. So for me, Noma was meant to be an enzyme that would catalyze a radical change. I basically wanted to contribute to a culture where every child would grow up in a family and be given a chance to appreciate delicious food and also be willing to invest the minutes and the hours in a week to serve a beautiful home-baked bread and a nice soup for his or her family members. So that was my goal. Since recording this interview, the New York Times published allegations from former Noma employees accusing Noma's longtime head chef, René Redzepi, of workplace abuse between 2009 and 2017.

24:27Redzepi has since stepped down from Noma. On social media, Redzepi said that, although he doesn't recognise all the details in these stories, he can see enough of his past behaviour reflected in them to understand that his actions were harmful to people who work for him. He's apologised and said that he's worked to be a better leader and Noma has taken big steps to transform the culture over many years. He added, I recognise these changes do not repair the past. An apology is not enough. I take responsibility for my own actions. In a statement, Klaus told me that even though he wasn't involved in day-to-day operations, he should have been more attentive to the work environment at the restaurant.

25:06He added that while chefs are trained to master the culinary arts, they're often ill-equipped for leadership. Klaus turned his attention to other projects from 2010, including a non-profit foundation designed to improve the lives of people around the world through food and hospitality. Ben Henderson with the history of new Nordic cuisine and its driving force, Klaus Meyer. I'm here on the job site with Dale, who's a framing contractor. Hey, good morning. Dale traded up to Geico Commercial Auto Insurance for all his business vehicles. We're here where he needs us most. Yep, they sure are. We make it easy for him to save on all his insurance needs, all in one place, with coverage that fits his business and bottom line.

25:48Oh, I shouldn't have looked down. It's all right. We're so far up here. Look at me. Take a deep breath. No, I'm good. So good. Get a commercial auto insurance quote today at geico.com and see how much you could save. It feels good to Geico. Still to come, the Chinese pharmacist who invented the vape, and Echo, the celebrity elephant at the heart of a longitudinal study of the species. We took some photos and she had nice marks on her ears. To us, that's a good elephant because that's how we recognize them, by the nicks. Plus one of the strangest events in boxing history, the parachute man who landed in the ring during a world heavyweight title fight in 1993.

26:29I did not see him come in until he lands with his feet over the ropes and his body is sort of hanging. Before that, a story from the past which weaves together significant moments in the history of art and politics. In 1981, one of the world's most impactful works of art was finally handed to Spain after more than four decades effectively in exile. Guernica was Pablo Picasso's emotional response to the bombing of the Basque town of that name during the Spanish Civil War, so it was freighted with meaning for the Spanish people. Jane Wilkinson has used archive recordings to trace the story of Guernica's journey.

27:09Picasso's famous painting, Guernica, was flown to Madrid today after 40 years' exile in New York. Painted in 1937, Guernica represents the suffering of the Spanish people during their civil war, and Picasso swore it would never hang in Spain until democracy returned. I think it is worth stressing the care that Picasso dedicated to his work and the awareness he had of the painting's exceptional value, of it being his masterpiece. We are standing before a tragedy and if it were possible to capture what it says, it would freeze the blood in our veins. The words of Ambassador Rafael Fernandez Quintanilla, one of the negotiators who helped the handover of the painting.

Read the full transcript

27:55But our story begins in 1937, during the Spanish Civil War. Troops led by General Francisco Franco are fighting to overturn the democratically elected Republican government. An aerial attack is launched on Guernica. And during a three-hour bombardment, the Basque town is devastated. Horrified, four days later, Pablo Picasso begins work in his Paris studio. His giant black-and-white mural, commissioned by the government, is chaotic, nightmarish and passionately anti-war. A screaming woman holds her dead child. A horse rears up, terrified, while a bull stares on, wide-eyed. Just over a month later, Guernica is finished and goes on show in Paris.

28:46The exhibition is of paintings by Picasso whose sympathies are with the Spanish government and they depict in modernist vein the gruesome destruction of Guernica from the sky and the agony of the inhabitants under the rain of bombs. Growing in fame, the eight metre wide artwork tours Europe and America and is given on loan to New York's Museum of Modern Art. But in Spain, a victorious Franco now rules as a dictator and in 1968, his government tries to claim the painting. Picasso, still living in exile in France, is furious. He calls his lawyer Roland Dumas. He said this is the most important problem in my life regarding Guernica.

29:28And first of all, I don't want that Guernica comes to Spain. Still, Franco is still here. And he gave me some instructions. He wanted that Guernica comes to Spain when the freedoms, les libertés démocratiques, are restored. And he explained to me that I was in charge of this problem. He said, you decide the moment when Guernica should return to Spain. And in 1975, two years after Picasso's death, that moment finally looks possible. Franco also dies, and King Juan Carlos reclaims the Spanish throne, guiding the country back to democracy. The American government is now willing to support a handover, and Rafael Fernández Quintanilla is asked to join the talks, as he explained to the BBC in 1981.

30:22We began negotiations secretly because, firstly, I am a diplomat, and in diplomacy there is a golden rule. Secrecy never causes harm. And you must also bear in mind the family affairs of Picasso. Picasso was a man with a very confused private life. He had children with several different women whom he loved, and inevitably, when large inheritance arise, Even in the most united families, there are problems.

31:00Picasso's relatives are torn. Some are in favour of the move to Spain. Others aren't. After talks, the argument is eventually resolved. But the New York Museum still wants proof that the Spanish government owns the painting. Raphael follows the paper trail to Paris, where Guernica first went on show, and to the archives of the former ambassador Luis Arakistan, who died in 1959. Fortunately, Rafael knows his son. He told me that he knew nothing about it, but that he would search through his father's papers and that he would let me know if he found anything. I left with little hope, but three months later, he found me asking me to come to Geneva because he had something to show me.

31:54There were accounts, money paid to various people and also to Picasso. And there it was, paid to Picasso for Guernica, 150 ,000 francs. But there's a hitch. Arakistan's son wants$2 million for the documents. The Spanish government says no, it's stalemate. but Rafael isn't giving up. I had photocopies and I did what the English call bluffing. Of course, as they say in English, I was skating on thin ice because I still had to get the authentic documents, the originals. For the next two years, negotiations with the Museum of Modern Art continue, slowly. But then comes news. Arrakistain's son died in October 1980, and so I spoke with his widow, and the widow, fortunately for Spain, did not know of her husband's demands.

33:05In any case, the documents belonged to Spain, and she agreed to hand them over for a much more reasonable sum, $50 ,000. At last, the transfer is within reach, until this happens. Good evening. In Madrid, a company of paramilitary civil guards have stormed the Spanish Parliament in what appears to be an attempted coup. The guards burst into the chamber just before 6.30 as deputies were voting to enact... It's a threat to the new democracy. But the king makes a speech, and the coup fails. Finally, the official papers are signed. Guernica will be handed to Spain. This is a formal transfer of responsibility and possession from the museum to the Spanish government.

33:54A grand farewell had been planned, a week of goodbyes from New York. But unfortunately, threats have been received and the security of the canvas meant there had to be the utmost secrecy. Picasso's painting, then valued at$40 million, is seen as a target by political extremists. The operation to take it to the airport must remain confidential. As Rafael later wrote in his memoir, Laudicea del Genica. Police protection was also arranged between our people, the FBI and the Metropolitan Police. And arrangements were made for packing and transport. In less than six hours, the canvas was rolled up and in its box.

34:42and a few hours later it was flying to Madrid aboard the jumbo Lope de Vega. The news was kept secret until the last moment and the sensation it produced was all the greater because of it. Thousands of Spaniards stood in line for hours today to get a first look at what has been called the last exile. Pablo Picasso's painting depicting the bloody fascist bombing of the town of Guernica during the Spanish... And on September 10th, 1981, after 44 years of wandering, Guernica finally set foot on Spanish soil. For many years, bulletproof glass surrounded Guernica at the Prado Museum in Madrid before the painting was moved to the city's Musea Reina Sofia, where it's now on display.

35:35Jane Wilkinson with the story of Picasso's Guernica. Now, many of the most memorable images of Pablo Picasso show him puffing away on a cigarette, smoke billowing. They seem to embody a sense of glamour that was attached to smoking in the middle of the last century. Today, of course, there is the vape, almost universally accepted as a supposedly safer but less glamorous alternative, but one which has become extremely popular. But how did the vape come about? Megan Jones has the story, which starts in China. Across China, smokers now get through 1 ,800 billion cigarettes a year, a 20-fold increase in just one generation, which has meant China has now taken over from the United States in having the highest number of deaths from smoking in the world.

36:23Among those millions of smokers is pharmacist Horn Lick, who, by the summer of 2003, is 46 years old and living in Shenyang, a city in northeast China. He's coughing a lot and struggling with his breathing. I smoke a lot. I smoke two packs of cigarettes a day. And if there were social engagements or gatherings with friends in the evening, it would be three packs a day. Han wants to quit, so tries nicotine patches, which deliver a steady dose through the skin. I was still wearing two patches while sleeping at night. That's when the extreme nightmare started. One moment, I was hanging off a cliff.

37:10Another, I was being thrown into the deep sea. He thinks the nicotine is causing the nightmares. And I deliberately tested it. That is, I stuck on the nicotine patch before sleeping at night. And the nightmares came again. Before we go any further, there's something you should know about Horne. He loves science fiction, especially the French writer Jules Verne, who wrote the books Around the World in 80 Days and 20 ,000 Leagues Under the Sea. Horne says he inspired him to look at things in different ways.

37:50It was this way of thinking that led him to try and create a man-made machine which could simulate cigarette smoke. I put distilled water plus nicotine into the humidifier with different concentrations. At first, it was very irritating to the nose. I used a straw to suck in the mist. The mist disappears too quickly. It's nothing like cigarette smoke. Hon keeps experimenting. Eventually, he turns to two liquids, propylene glycol and glycerin, which are mixed with nicotine and then when heated produce a thick vapour, the kind that lingers a little longer in the air. I built a small experimental platform.

38:35This is its prototype. Up to this point of the interview, he has been continuously puffing away on a modern vape. At this point though, he puts it down and picks up a different device. It's that first prototype he made. In one hand, a square circuit board, multicoloured wires, and it's all feeding into what he's holding in his other hand, a metal brown and gold tube shaped like a cigarette. This is the early experimental device for electronic cigarettes. This circuit's board is so big, how could this be an electronic cigarette? There's also a button you press each time you inhale and a rechargeable battery.

39:16Don't look at it being so ugly and big. It simulates cigarettes exactly the same. I once used it together with friends, and after using for a few days, we really don't want to smoke real cigarettes. It is big, though. So if he wants people to buy it, it needs to shrink. To stuff that battery inside, it took me a whole year, a full year. Eventually, he's happy, and the device is hand-assembled. At this point, Horn puts down his modern vape again and picks up this newer device, casually holding it in one hand. It looks like a thicker, polished brown tube with gold rings and a black tip. According to the current electronic cigarette standard, this is quite ugly.

40:04It's around this point, once he knows the device works, that he applies for and is granted a patent for his invention. What he's created is essentially a small machine called Ruyen, which means like smoke. But he wants to check if it's safe, so sends it off for testing. Our company conduct acute toxicity tests and animal chronic toxicity tests, animal organ pathology section, independent pathology tests, physical and chemical tests. This test took a long time and cost a lot of money. But most importantly, we got a very positive report. I believe at last time our product was very safe. After all this product is not for babies to use it is for smokers to use.

40:54I've been looking into what Horn says here and found test results on a 2008 Ruyen device. In that report the organisation responsible for New Zealand's public health system and several government, university and commercial laboratories found it very safe compared with cigarettes. In May 2004, Han's invention goes on sale in China. Every consumer was amazed, so this is something I'm very proud of. This is an innovation. It cost 980 renminbi, around 140 US dollars. Suddenly, a product like this appears in the market, and everyone rush to it. What happens at last time is that many young people treat this as if they suddenly got hold of a mobile phone they had never seen before.

41:47In the first year, over 100 ,000 are sold in China. Then there are sales in Europe, the United States and UK. Not only the Chinese government, but governments of various countries had no clear regulation for electronic cigarettes. With the rise in popularity comes more debates. In 2008, the World Health Organisation said it does not consider e-cigarettes a legitimate therapy for smokers trying to quit. But around the world, people were talking about these new devices, including on this BBC radio programme. And this electronic ciggy thing then, do you know if it works in the same way as the patches, the nicotine chewing gum, all the stuff that we're used to?

42:29It's not clear at the moment. Do you think this is a bit of a gimmick? It could well be. While some former heavy smokers insist it helped them quit. But with more than 100 million people using e-cigarettes around the world, criticism has increased. The World Health Organization says electronic cigarettes typically contain nicotine and other toxic substances, which are harmful to both users and non-users. And while the long-term effects are still unclear, they're worried about the way the products were being marketed. The media has always been like this. There is a critical attitude toward new things.

43:06But as the criticism of electronic cigarettes progressed, it entered a demoralisation process. Then I definitely feel very unhappy. As of January 2024, electronic nicotine delivery systems had been banned by 35 countries worldwide. While some health experts say vaping is far less harmful than cigarettes and can help you quit. But for Horn, it's still something he's proud of. This invention for me is the greatest source of achievement in my research and development career. So this sense of achievement is enormous. The Chinese pharmacist and inventor of the vape, Hon Lick, was speaking to Megan Jones.

43:53On our website, bbc.com slash witnesshistory, we have grouped many of our first-hand stories from the past into dedicated collections. Our final story this week will be added to the group you can find under the heading Animals Who Made History. Starting in Kenya in the 1970s, a study of elephants made a celebrity out of one of its subjects called Echo. Here's Jane Wilkinson. I'm taking you back to 1972 for the start of the world's longest running study of wild elephants and to meet its star, Echo. Echo is the leader of a family of elephants in Ambrosele National Park, southern Kenya. She's easy to recognise because her long, graceful tusks almost cross at the tips.

44:42The voice of Sir David Attenborough on BBC TV's Natural World, one of several documentaries to follow Echo and the elephants. That gentle rumble means let's go. The whole family responds immediately. Oh, she was the leader, the matriarch, definitely. She was a very beautiful elephant, very gentle and non-aggressive, with a special walk, a lovely swinging walk, and so she was very distinctive. Meet scientist Dr Cynthia Moss, who set up the Amboseli Elephant Research Project in 1972. She spent years camping out on the Kenyan plains, observing Echo, her family, and around 700 other elephants in the park.

45:29The aim was to study a population that had not been disrupted very much. The Amboseli population was one of the fortunate ones. The elephants were still moving on trails that they'd been using for hundreds of years and also there was little or no poaching. At the start of the project, Cynthia and her team were looking for research subjects and in April 1974 they spotted the perfect family. Our purpose was to find three females. We didn't really know them at that point but we took some photos and she had nice marks on her ears. To us that's a good elephant because that's how we recognise them, by the nicks.

46:13So they decided to fit radio colours on the group to track their movements and behaviour. You have to dart the elephant with a very powerful drug. It's 10 ,000 times stronger than morphine, and it only takes a tiny bit. It's amazing for several tons of elephant. Within about 15 minutes, the elephant lies down, and then we're able to get some samples and take measurements and put the collar on. And then, fortunately, there's an equally wonderful antidote that you give the elephant right into the vein in the back of their ear. and you literally have to jump back and run back to your vehicle because it works so fast that the elephant will be up in less than a minute.

46:57They approached the oldest and most distinctive elephant first. We darted her and put a collar on her, a radio collar, and there's a little ping, ping, ping noise that you get with the aerial, so we called her Echo. But in the early days, getting information via radio signal was tricky. It didn't produce a huge amount of data, I have to tell you. You needed a handheld aerial to go out and try to get a fix on the elephant. You had to be relatively close to them to even get one. But it did give us some insights. For instance, we found out that Echo was pretty much a homebody. The other two females roamed much further, but Echo stayed pretty close to the central part of the park.

47:43But it was not until later with these high-tech collars that we're starting to get really fascinating information. She clearly was the leader, and they were a very vocal family. They talked a lot. So I've always called them the Italian family, because every time they met up with one of their members, they would have a greeting ceremony. When we're monitoring, we find as many family groups as we can, and we record where they are, what they were doing, what time, what place, their activity, who they were with and all that builds up. The project began to attract wider attention. In 1990, a documentary TV producer asked to film one of the groups so Cynthia turned to a familiar face.

48:33I chose Echo because she was a homebody and also I wanted to have a family that had a very distinctive looking matriarch and Echo was that. It was the start of Echo's life in front of the camera as the crew covered the highs and lows of her life, including the arrival of one of her calves, Eli. That was a surprise. We went out one morning and there was this calf under Echo and we soon realised that he couldn't stand up, that his carpal joints, sort of like our wrists, were bent completely back. All he could do was crawl along on his carpal joints, and it was very upsetting. I thought, sure, he would die.

49:16Neither Echo nor her daughter Enid would leave him. They stayed with him, and you're loathe to let nature take its course when you're watching it happen. In fact, I flew up to Nairobi to have a meeting with the director of Kenya National Parks to discuss whether we should take him away, although we really didn't want to do that. But anyway, fortunately, we never had to make that decision because after about three days, he was finally able to stand up. He had been working at his legs the whole time, stretching them and stretching them, and finally was able to stand. It was quite amazing. Over the next decades, Echo would help raise four generations of her family, protecting them from attacks by lions, conflicts with local farmers and the effects of famine.

50:06She was a very successful mother and a successful matriarch and I think those were the good times for Echo and certainly good times for us to be observing her. But in 2009, the Ambosiline National Park faced a disaster. The rains failed. Droughts are the worst. The calves die and some of the adults die and it's just so sad. And that was the worst drought we've ever had. Over 400 elephants died out of only 1 ,600 elephants. And Echo was one of them? Yes. She was found lying down, but she was still alive. And one of my research assistants, Katito, went and stayed with her. I touched her and then I touched her.

50:57She was going slowly by slowly. The last minute she blinked her eyes like this and looked at me and then she died.

51:14It's good. One of us was there. Yeah.

51:21It was bad. And I was in the US. I immediately went back to Kenya to be with the rest of the team. I was very sad. Yeah, it was the end of an era. Echo, the grand old matriarch, had died at the age of 64. For Cynthia, the work continued. I honestly think, and many, many people have said it, much of what we know of elephants has come from this project. And it affects people studying elephants all over Africa and Asia. Changes have been made in zoos and places like that because of the work we've done to show what elephants need and how elephants live in the natural environment. It's considered the base to go to.

52:10And how significant was Echo in this project? She was significant to give the public knowledge about elephants and how amazing they are and how complex they are and intelligent they are. And the four films we did on Echo certainly did that. We still miss her.

52:32Dr Cynthia Moss continues to study the elephants of Amboseli, a population that now numbers more than 2 ,000. She was talking to Jane Wilkinson. Finally, this week's sporting witness, and this is a really odd one. On November 6, 1993, there was a highly anticipated boxing rematch in Las Vegas. A huge crowd, all the usual boxing razzmatazz, and off we go. But then something very strange happened, as Jen Dale now recounts.

53:07Evander Holyfield has regained his WBA and IBF world titles from Riddick Boll in a bizarre contest even by Las Vegas standards. The bout in an open air arena was interrupted by the appearance of a parachutist. Out of the sky all of a sudden the intruder he had a parachute attached to this fan contraption that had a motor in it. The sun's gone down in the Nevada desert and it's a cool night as thousands of people gather to watch Repeat or Revenge a World Heavyweight Championship showdown between Evander Holyfield and Riddick Bowe at the iconic Caesars Palace. Holyfield had lost his title to Bowe the previous year.

53:50It was outside of the hotel itself. It was four sides of bleachers held around, I believe, for that fight of around 18 ,000. And it was sold out a nice November night, very calm and very peaceful. Mark Ratner has been in his job as executive director of the Nevada State Athletic Commission for less than a year. So what does that mean? My role was to run the day-to-day business, which was licensing the fighters, picking the officials, working with the venue, working with security, just every detail that a fight would have. I was sitting at ringside. I could touch the canvas where they were fighting.

54:33It was within probably less than a foot from me. I was sitting right next to one of the judges. Cameras are rolling as the bout is being shown live around the world. Six rounds in and it seems to be anybody's fight. I thought it was pretty even. Riddick was a little taller. Evander was a real tough fighter, but a little bit smaller than Riddick. A close fight, a lot of give and take, and just a typical boxing match where they were both fighting a heavyweight title. So it was a big event, and I was just watching the fights like I do. And then Mark is aware of a subtle change in the crowd. I did not see anything.

55:12I heard a sound in the stands, a higher pitch screaming, which usually means even at a boxing match there was a fight in the stands and I could see people looking around a little bit. But it's not crowd trouble. It's in the seventh round and I'm watching them fight and they're not quite in the middle of the ring, a little bit to one side. And I did not see him come in until he lands with his feet over the ropes and his body is sort of hanging and it's in the corner of Riddick Bow.

55:45The much-anticipated rematch had just passed its halfway point when 30-year-old James Miller made his unscheduled appearance. Using what police described as a motorised parasail, Miller got caught in the canopy above the ring and fell into the crowd where he was attacked by several spectators. American James Miller is wearing a white helmet, black gloves and a red jumpsuit. Strapped to his back is an oval metal cage with a propeller. Think of an oversized desk fan. In fact, the media later dub him Fan Man. Tied to the metal cage with lots of thin cords is a blue, yellow and orange parachute that's got caught.

56:25Over the ring you have a lighting grid where all the lights are and it's above the ring maybe 12 feet high and it's there for the fans and the television audience to be able to see the fighters clearly. And when the parachute was stuck on them, that was a big fear, that it could pull the sliding grid down and then it could have injured some of the fans, possibly the fighters that were sitting on their stools. So it could have been a big, big tragedy. I think the stagehands or the Caesars Palace people, they had cut the string so it was not going to fall down. so there was no danger then. I was never frightened but I certainly wasn't prepared for anything like that.

57:09Bo's pregnant wife Judy, who was sitting nearby, was taken to hospital after fainting. The ring announcer, Michael Buffer his name is, he came into the ring to keep the crowd calm. There were police surrounding the guy before they took him out, the intruder. After the fight, Evander Holyfield speaks to the press. Well, yeah, I seen that parachute guy coming in. I didn't know what was happening, and I was trying to get out of the way. I didn't know who they were coming in and out to be up for. I always believed he knew where he was going, and I don't think it was an accident. I think he wanted to interrupt the fight, but I certainly never talked to him, and his story changed a couple of times.

57:49The media covers Miller's explanations, from it being an accident to stopping the fight because he hates violence. Whatever the motive, there are consequences for the stunt, as Fox 5 News recalls. Referees put the bout on hold for more than 20 minutes while security untangled Miller's shoot, freed him from the hands of angry fans and then escorted him out of the venue. Miller went to the hospital for injuries suffered during the scuffle. Police then arrested him and fined him$200. He's also charged with dangerous flying. The match commentator calls it a monstrosity of an interruption. So how does it impact on the bout itself?

58:33There is no rule when somebody flies in the ring, but I had officiated in other sports and the clock is very important. I knew enough to go to the timekeeper and then to the judges. What I did was walk around to each judge and tell them, I don't know if this fight's going to continue. take your scorecard, turn it over, and mark where you are in the round. I went to the timekeeper and asked him how much time was left in the round. They're three-minute rounds, and I believe it was one minute and 20 seconds, something in that area. I went over to the fighters, and we made sure that they were both okay.

59:10We had our commission inspectors in the ring, and they were both calm. I think I said something like, if this fight continues, we're going to go right from the middle of the seventh round. My mistake was not sending him back to the dressing rooms because it was a cool night and we put blankets on them but we probably should have taken him back to the dressing rooms. The 21 minute pause in the match leads one of the commentators to say the parachutist may be an angel from the sky for Riddick Bowe. I believe Riddick was cut a little bit and he looked a little tired. I thought it was still a pretty even fight.

59:43Evander looked a little stronger at that time. I can understand the commentator saying that. This gave him a chance to rest. When the fight did continue, it went 12 full rounds. And it turns out the interrupted seventh round scores are crucial. In that seventh round, one judge scored it for Riddick Bowe 10 to nine. One had it for Evander Holofield 10 to nine. And the third judge had it 10 to 10, an even round. And the irony of all, and this changes heavyweight history, is that when the decision was rendered, Evander Holofield won the fight. And if the judge who had scored the round 10-10 had given it 10-9 to Riddick Bowe, then it would have been a majority draw and Riddick Bowe would have kept his title.

1:00:32So that changed the course of history. It's amazing. How does it feel to have been involved in one of the most unusual events in boxing and possibly sporting history? It is part of my legacy because people still want to talk about it. I was very blessed to be inducted into the Boxing Hall of Fame and I believe part of the reason that all people got to know me was from this incident. It's a big moment in my life. I had the best regulatory government job, I think, anywhere in the world for boxing. I really loved it. James Van Man Miller did several more stunts the following year, including flying over the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum during the NFL playoff between the LA Raiders and Denver Broncos, as well as landing on the roof of Buckingham Palace in England.

1:01:22Miller died in 2003.

1:01:28Jendale was speaking to Mark Ratner, who, as a representative of the Nevada State Athletic Commission, witnessed that bizarre spectacle back in 1993. And that's it for this edition of the History Hour. We'll be scouring the annals of the past to bring you more first-hand stories next week. So until then, this is Max Pearson. From all of us here, thank you for listening. Goodbye. From the pioneers. We weren't going to ask mission, we're just going to do it. And the celebrations. You feel you have, you win. I feel it. I was first. I was first. We were so proud of ourselves and Cameron was proud of us too.

1:02:05I still cannot believe it. It was such an amazing feeling. It was incredible. To the humiliations. I did cry most of the half. Oh man, I'm failing. I'm failing this sport and I love. Sporting Witness takes you to the events that have shaped the sports world through the eyes of the people who were there. It's not just about the sport. It's about all the other things that people with disabilities learn from each other. For nine minutes, you become a fan in the stands as we take you back in time to examine memorable moments from all over the world. There's a magic during those moments that carries your soul.

1:02:42We were truly blessed to be a part of history. Sporting Witness. Subscribe wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

1:03:01They sure are. We make it easy for him to save on all his insurance needs, all in one place, with coverage that fits his business and bottom line. Oh, I shouldn't have looked down. It's all right. We're so far up here. Look at me. Take a deep breath. No, I'm good. So good. Get a commercial auto insurance quote today at geico.com and see how much you could save. It feels good to Geico. Hi, I'm astronaut Tim Peake. I spent 186 days aboard the International Space Station. In the new series of 13 Minutes, the BBC Space podcast, I'll be following NASA's Artemis II mission as it happens, but this time from the safety of Earth.

1:03:3813 Minutes is telling the story of Artemis II, with daily updates and analysis of the first human mission to the moon in over 50 years. We're bringing you all the latest developments, explaining mission details, and chatting with some of the people making this groundbreaking endeavour possible. So strap yourself in for 13 Minutes Presents Artemis II from the BBC World Service. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

From the publisher

Max Pearson presents a collection of the week's Witness History interviews from the BBC World Service. Our guest is Dr Sarah Ward, a maritime archaeologist from the Australian National University.

We start with the discovery of the sunken Terra Nova, Scott of the Antartic's ship.

We hear from the Danish food entrepeneur Claus Meyer - a driving force behind New Nordic Cuisine.

Then, the long journey that finally took Picasso's Guernica to Spain.

Plus, the Chinese pharmacist who invented the e-cigarette.

And, the life of Echo the elephant - the star of the world's longest-running study of wild elephants in Kenya.

Finally, "fan man" James Miller and boxing's most bizarre night.

Contributors:

Leighton Rolley - oceanographer.

Dr Sarah Ward - maritime archaeologist from the Australian National University.

Claus Meyer - Danish food entrepeneur.

Ambassador Rafael Fernandez-Quintanilla - Spanish diplomat (from BBC archive).

Hon Lik - inventor of the e-cigarette.

Dr Cynthia Moss - founder of the Amboseli Elephant Research Project.

Marc Ratner - former representative of the Nevada State Athletic Commission.

(Photo: The Terra Nova held up in the pack, Antarctica, 1910. Credit: Herbert Ponting/Royal Geographical Society via Getty Images)

More from The History Hour

All 65 episodes
The discovery of the Terra Nova shipwreck and Echo the elephantThe History Hour · 1 h 1 min
Listen in VO