In short
This BBC History Hour episode (Witness History) moves through several stories: the origins of reality TV, Canada’s residential schools truth process, feathered dinosaur evidence, slavery archaeology in Brazil, Leicester City’s 2015-16 Premier League win, and Eurovision’s 1980 breakthrough for Sami joik.
Guests and backgrounds
Maddy Savage interviews Martin Merlin, a Swedish police officer who won Expedition Robinson (1997). Misha Kovka, professor of cross-media culture at the University of Amsterdam, discusses why reality formats spread globally. Tim O’Callaghan interviews Willie Littlechild, a Cree lawyer and former MP and one of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission commissioners. Stefania Gotzer interviews paleontologist Philip Carey. Julia Janeiro interviews Mese dos Anjos, who helped uncover a slavery cemetery in Rio. Helen Ledwick interviews Wes Morgan, Leicester City captain. Surya Elango reports on joik via Mathis Hatter’s sister Inga and family context.
Key claims/examples
Expedition Robinson’s voting-off format became Survivor; controversy included the suicide of contestant Sinisha Shavir. Canada’s TRC findings call residential schools “cultural genocide.” Feathered dinosaur Cinosauropteryx evidence shifted dinosaurs toward birds. Mese dos Anjos found human remains under her home, tied to Rio’s Valongo slavery port. Leicester’s “Great Escape” and Ranieri’s appointment helped win the title. Eurovision 1980 introduced Sami joik, shaped by Alta dam protests and Sami rights activism.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Struggle with Indigenous History in Canada
2:44 to 4:00
Explore Canada's dark past regarding Indigenous children.
“Hello and welcome to the History Hour from the BBC World Service with me, Max Pearson, a week's worth of characters and stories from Witness History on the World Service.”
Dinosaur Fossils and Feathers
4:00 to 5:10
Learn about the discovery of the first dinosaur fossil with feathers.
“They've said goodbye to their families to take part in a television experiment.”
Brazil's History of Slavery Uncovered
5:10 to 6:30
Discuss the uncovering of a cemetery for enslaved people in Brazil.
“I was actually thinking that what if they're actually going to vote for this other guy?”
The Birth of Reality Game Shows
6:30 to 7:50
An overview of the early reality game show 'Expedition Robinson'.
“contestants competing for survival on a desert island.”
Challenges Faced by Contestants
7:50 to 9:30
Explore the emotional and psychological challenges faced by contestants.
“Critics described it as bullying or even fascist TV.”
The Impact of 'Expedition Robinson'
9:30 to 10:40
Analyze the cultural impact and success of the show in Sweden and beyond.
“You could sit there, watch this show and see that could have been me.”
Reality TV's Global Reach
10:40 to 11:40
Examine the global popularity and various adaptations of reality TV formats.
“which became known in most places as Survivor.”
Ethics and Mental Health in Reality TV
11:40 to 14:05
Discuss the ongoing debates about the ethics of reality television.
“and their impact on some contestants' mental health.”
The Global Rise of Reality TV
14:05 to 17:08
Explore the history of reality TV from Survivor to global adaptations.
“But in that same late 90s period, of course, we had pop stars, pop stars going global, right?”
Indigenous Children and Residential Schools
17:08 to 19:14
Learn about the tragic history of Indigenous children in Canadian schools.
“That's Misha Kovka, Professor of Cross Media Culture at the University of Amsterdam.”
Show all 33 chapters
Survivor Testimonies from Residential Schools
19:14 to 21:51
Hear powerful testimonies from survivors of the residential school system.
“until I was taken to residential school when I was six years old.”
Cultural Genocide in Canada
21:51 to 24:48
Understand the impact of cultural genocide on Indigenous peoples in Canada.
“So the physical, the mental, emotional, the cultural, and worst of all, the sexual abuse.”
Ongoing Effects and Reconciliation Efforts
24:48 to 25:51
Discuss the ongoing efforts towards reconciliation and healing in Canada.
“or having other different consequences of harm.”
The Evolution of Dinosaurs: A Significant Discovery
26:16 to 27:05
Learn about the discovery that linked dinosaurs to modern birds.
“Mahte had never really joiked much at home, and back in 1980, Joiking in public was definitely still frowned upon.”
Feathers and the Dinosaur-Bird Connection
27:05 to 28:00
Discover the significance of feathered dinosaur fossils in evolutionary science.
“It's October 1996, and the annual meeting of the Society of Vertebrate Paleontology is underway at the American Museum of Natural History.”
The Dinosaur Revolution: Warm-Blooded Evidence
28:00 to 29:16
Learn about the evolving theories regarding dinosaur physiology and their connection to birds.
“at the world's most important paleontology meeting.”
Philip's Journey to Dinosaur Discoveries in China
29:16 to 31:12
Discover Philip's journey and the groundbreaking finds in paleontology from China.
“Some of the largest dinosaur fossils have been found there.”
The Feathered Dinosaur Controversy
31:12 to 33:16
Explore the debate between Philip and Ji Chiang over the classification of a significant fossil.
“They sat me down at the front with Ji Chung and brought out specimens one at a time.”
The Impact of Feathered Dinosaurs on Science and Culture
33:16 to 35:01
Understand the broader implications of feathered dinosaurs on modern science and media.
“Li Fang is one of the farmers involved in the discovery.”
Discovering a Forgotten Cemetery of Enslaved People
35:26 to 37:55
Learn about Mese dos Anjos' shocking discovery of a cemetery for enslaved individuals.
“But in the process, a very grim story from the past began to emerge.”
The Aftermath of Discovery: Community Response
37:55 to 40:02
Explore the challenges faced by the family after uncovering the historical site.
“You've just discovered the cemetery of the enslaved people.”
Creating a Legacy: The New Blacks Research Institute
40:02 to 42:05
Discover how Mese and her community turned a tragedy into a vibrant cultural center.
“they suspended any further construction work, and so the family had to move out temporarily.”
Preserving Afro-Brazilian History
42:05 to 43:38
Learn about the challenges of preserving Afro-Brazilian cultural history.
“Maria Augusta, or Dona Gu, plays the Atabaque, the tall wooden hand drum of Afro-Brazilian religions.”
The Fragility of Memory
43:38 to 44:12
Explore the struggle to keep historical narratives alive amidst societal indifference.
“They don't want to keep the story alive.”
Leicester's Premier League Fairytale
44:22 to 46:06
Discover the incredible journey of Leicester City's rise to Premier League champions.
“It was described as one of the biggest sporting upsets of the modern era.”
The Role of Claudio Ranieri
46:06 to 47:03
Learn about Claudio Ranieri's impact as the manager of Leicester City.
“And I think we only won three games before that, the nine games before the end.”
Building Confidence in the Team
47:03 to 48:36
Uncover how Leicester City developed confidence and belief during their title run.
“You know, at least he has that belief and faith in me.”
The Critical Matches
48:36 to 49:48
Examine key matches that defined Leicester City's extraordinary season.
“The Foxes hold their nerve into 2016 and the next big test, a three-game run.”
Celebrating the Championship
49:48 to 51:34
Experience the excitement as Leicester City clinches the Premier League title.
“There are just three games left in the season when they meet Manchester United at Old Trafford.”
Lifting the Trophy: A Dream Realized
51:34 to 52:48
Hear about the emotional moment Leicester City lifted the Premier League trophy.
“I think there's some videos online of me getting dragged around the kitchen.”
The Sami Joik at Eurovision
53:23 to 56:00
Explore the introduction of the Sami joik at the Eurovision Song Contest and its cultural roots.
“a unique vocal style from the indigenous Sami communities of northern Norway and Finland.”
The Impact of the Alta Dam on Sami Culture
56:00 to 1:00:36
Explore the challenges faced by the Sami community due to the Alta Dam and their response through joiking.
“Mathis, who the family nickname, Marta, grew up in a reindeer herding family in the north of Norway, with his mother, father and nine siblings.”
The Protest and Its Results
1:00:45 to 1:01:25
Discover the outcomes of the protests against the Alta Dam and their implications for the Sami people.
“But for Inga and her family, and for the Sami people, the cultural impact was far more important than the ranking.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
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1:57And I completely lost my appetite. Moments captured which last for a lifetime. Scientists have made the atomic bomb. That sort of flash set on fire the birds and they all fell down without their feathers on. The way was clear for Hitler to realize all his demonic plans. Stories from people with first-hand accounts of events that have shaped our world. At the end, Kissinger called me into his office and he said, you did a good job. I left the office with tears in my eyes. She called me and told me, I'm doing Studio 54. She had already become a star in Paris. She came back a superstar. Listen now.
2:43Search for Witness History wherever you get your BBC podcasts.
2:53Hello and welcome to the History Hour from the BBC World Service with me, Max Pearson, a week's worth of characters and stories from Witness History on the World Service. This week, how Canada has struggled to come to terms with the past treatment of Indigenous children. This was the most unknown, saddest, darkest chapter in Canadian history because no one knew what was going on all these years. Also, did they really become birds, the discovery of the first dinosaur fossil with feathers? Then suddenly this one box comes out and there was a specimen lying on the red velvet. Within milliseconds, I realized that this was no fake.
3:34And the long-buried bones that revealed Brazil's troubled history of slavery. He told me, you live over a cemetery. you've just discovered the cemetery of the enslaved people. And I said, oh my God, what do I do? But we're going to begin in the 1990s on a remote tropical island in Malaysia. 16 people from Sweden have made it through a rigorous selection process and there are cameras focused on their every move. They've said goodbye to their families to take part in a television experiment. Maddy Savage has been speaking to the winner of one of the world's first reality game shows. It's June 1997.
4:15Martin Merlin is sitting on a tree stump on a sun-drenched island, waiting to find out if he's won a Swedish TV competition. It was, as it always was, a very hot, humid day. I haven't showered in 44 days. I had a bad hair day, I remember. The show is called Expedition Robinson, a reference to Robinson Crusoe, an 18th century novel by Daniel Defoe about a sailor stranded on a desert island. Now, nearly 300 years later, the idea is being reimagined, not as fiction, but as reality television.
4:55Martin is a 30-year-old police officer from Stockholm. Now he's one of the finalists. I was so nervous. Before we were going to shoot, I needed to pee five or six times. I was so nervous. I was actually thinking that what if they're actually going to vote for this other guy? Martin. When we all realised that I'm going to win. It's not that I'm cheering and, you know, jumping up and down and whoa. It's more like a sight. I was so relieved. So what did you think would happen when you got home? We thought, well, they're going to air this. People are going to watch it. After that, everything is going to go back to normal.
5:41But that couldn't have been further from the truth, as we'll find out later. First though, why did Sweden end up making the programme in the first place?
5:55In the mid-1990s, soap operas and set-based comedy series ruled people's screens. There were no on-demand streaming networks, you had to get home in time to catch your favourite shows. I saw Friends, Seinfeld, Fault Towers. That was on, well, maybe the reruns. Mr Bean. Reality TV was still very new. This is the true story. True story. Seven strangers. This MTV show called The Real World had already filmed young people living together in the US and in Sweden. In the UK, a British producer had developed an idea that will by now sound familiar. contestants competing for survival on a desert island.
6:38I knew it was going to be an amazing hit. That's Charlie Parsons, co-founder of production company Planet 24, reflecting on that time in a recent YouTube interview for Parrot Analytics, an audience data company. You know, in our original pitch document, we put a cover of Newsweek or Time magazine saying these are the survivors as a sort of demonstration of the kind of success it would have. At first, his concept was hard to sell. Broadcasters worried it was too unconventional and too tough on contestants. But in 1996, a Swedish producer called Anna Brockenjelm saw its potential. She bought the rights for around$12 ,000, a small sum in the TV world.
7:18Sweden's public service broadcaster SVT agreed to take a gamble and commission the programme. And then there are a lot of wild animals on the earth. Aps, dogs, sköldpaddor. SVT put out this trailer calling for contestants brave enough to spend six weeks in the wild. Thousands applied for an audition, including Martin Melin. I thought, hey, I'm an adventurous guy. I like challenges. So, why not? Even before the first episode aired, it was met with fierce criticism. Much of the controversy centred on the idea that the contestants would be voted out one by one by fellow participants. Critics described it as bullying or even fascist TV.
8:00Some drew comparisons with Lord of the Flies, a novel by William Goulding that came out in the 1950s. It's about a group of schoolboys marooned on an island, and it ends in brutal violence. Oh, this is terrible. They vote who's going to leave the island. They must feel awful. doing that. Then, weeks before the show was due to go on air, something awful happened. The first contestant to be voted out of the programme, Sinisha Shavir, took his own life. And that was a shock. We were all staring at each other like, what? The islanders found out at a meeting with SVT bosses, who said they weren't sure whether to put the show on TV anymore.
8:42Sinisha's widow told a Swedish tabloid he'd become embarrassed and depressed when he returned home, but there was no suicide note. After a lot of meetings, they aired the show and the reviews, the critics, it was enormous. Everybody hated the show. SVT decided to pause the programme for a few weeks. They re-edited later episodes, taking out parts that could be considered too controversial. And they made the show nicer, so to speak. And then the show started to air again. All the debates in the media only fuelled public curiosity. When the programme returned, it became clear viewers were tuning in not just for the controversy, but to get to know the contestants and watch their challenges unfold.
9:29You could see real people that you could identify yourself with. You could sit there, watch this show and see that could have been me. After the re-edit, audiences grew. The experiment had struck a chord. By the time the final episode aired, a quarter of Sweden's population was watching. None of us understood how big this was going to be. Overnight, Martin became the country's first major reality TV star. He was unable to leave home without people recognising him. And in an era before selfies, he was regularly stopped for his autograph. I would say the first six months I was sort of living a rock star life, especially when I left Stockholm and visited some smaller cities.
10:14People were standing at the train station waiting for me. And also I got to meet a lot of real celebrities, artists and actors and the red carpet. All of that was also a new world, a crazy world. The programme's success in Sweden quickly attracted international interest. Dozens of other countries bought the format, which became known in most places as Survivor. In 2026, the American version is celebrating its 50th season. Why do you think the concept is still so appealing? You have the thought of, what would I do if I ended up on a deserted island? How would it work? You have that. You have the environment.
11:01You have the sun, the beaches, people in not that much clothes. Expedition Robinson also helped lay the foundations for a whole new genre of reality television. From Big Brother to Love Island and more recently The Traitors, now shown in more than 30 countries, many globally successful formats are built on the same core idea. Participants voting each other out. Unlike Martin, today's contestants know how famous they could become and many deliberately use these shows to launch influencer careers. but there are ongoing debates about the ethics of reality programmes and their impact on some contestants' mental health.
11:43I've never regretted being on the show. I was presented in a positive way. I don't have any responsibility for what reality TV has become today. Six months after Expedition Robinson, the world's first reality TV show winner returned to his day job as a police officer. Martin is now a member of Sweden's parliament, but he still thinks a lot about his time on that sun-drenched island. Actually, if they call me and ask me to be on the show again, I would probably say... Maybe. I would not say no. Martin Malin was speaking to Maddy Savage in that Podlit production. Well, TV schedules around the world are now thick with reality game shows.
12:32Misha Kovka is a professor of cross-media culture at the University of Amsterdam. That Swedish Expedition Robinson was something of a landmark moment, but they are now everywhere, aren't they? They certainly are. I mean, that was the invention of the reality game show that we saw right there, and it has turned out to be very popular, to say the least. Why so? And also, why so globally popular? Well, I think there was this talk about the way that people are able to identify with participants in reality TV programs. And I think that that's very true. And that invention of the challenge format, that turned out to be particularly important, right?
13:15So it is also about the competition and the voting off that really grabs people into the drama. But I think that kind of projecting yourself as a viewer into these people undergoing these very difficult challenges often is extremely, it really grabs us. It's just kind of a winning broad format. And then it gets applied to all sorts of different contexts. It gets applied to love. It gets applied to cooking. It gets applied to gardening, right? This is a format that can just be changed over and over again to apply to different daily and also very unusual contexts. Yeah. And the sort of format as applied to singing competitions, for example, has been hugely successful worldwide and has created stars in their own rights.
14:05Definitely, definitely. And I mean, that has its own interesting history, because during the very same period that kind of Survivor was being, the format was being developed, and we first saw Expedition Robinson in 97, and then Survivor in 2000. But in that same late 90s period, of course, we had pop stars, pop stars going global, right? Pop stars actually began in New Zealand. It was bought as a format in Australia, and then exported to Britain and Ireland. All of this is happening in the late 90s. And then Simon Fuller gets a good idea, decides to get rid of the group and focus it on the individual.
14:48And hello, we have pop idol. And then it gets picked up as American Idol. And really, the rest is history. It goes wildly global from there. And truly global. There are continent-wide competitions in Africa, for example. There are singing competitions even in Afghanistan where you might not expect there to be that sort of enthusiasm about music. Yeah, absolutely. And of course, music turns out to be something that is global in the sense that everyone everywhere, every culture has some form of music. But of course, it's extremely local, right? So there's a wonderful documentary called Afghan Star about the Afghan Star program, which is their idol format.
15:37And of course, when you watch that documentary, what you hear is just how kind of local their kind of music is. So it really speaks to local audiences who also kind of see their own culture reflected in that at the same time as the format can travel globally. Of course, Big Brother was one of the big hits that has been a big hit globally, but it started in the Netherlands. So why do you think the Netherlands was the crucible for that? Well, it makes sense that it started in the Netherlands. I mean, there's a long production history of the format being worked on and developed and what ideas went into it.
16:13But for me, it makes perfect sense because the Dutch, they don't actually use window blinds as opposed to the British, for instance, right? I mean, Big Brother then went global. But it started here in part because the Dutch are actually used to looking into each other's houses, or at least pretending not to look into each other's houses. There was less kind of sense that we shouldn't be watching a group of people who are being constantly monitored by mounted and kind of handheld cameras. of course we can watch because this is kind of the way that, living in Amsterdam as I do, this is the way that I already experience walking around the city.
16:53People do sort of look into each other's lives here in a way that I think is uncomfortable in other cultural contexts, but did not prevent Big Brother from having a massive impact across Europe, in the UK, across Latin America and elsewhere. That's Misha Kovka, Professor of Cross Media Culture at the University of Amsterdam. Next, we're in Canada, where for more than 100 years, Indigenous children were taken from their families to boarding schools run by various church organisations on behalf of the Canadian government. Many were subjected to physical and sexual abuse. A Truth and Reconciliation Commission was set up to examine the system.
17:38Tim O 'Callaghan has been speaking to one of the three commissioners who travelled the country hearing survivors' testimonies and are warning there are descriptions of abuse and violence in this item. There's been something of a day of reckoning for the people of Canada recently. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission has finally given its verdict on how the country treated its Aboriginal children. This is the story of how more than 150 ,000 Indigenous children were taken from their homes and sent to residential schools, a practice that took place in Canada for over 100 years, with the last school closing in 1997.
18:17This was the most unknown, saddest, darkest chapter in Canadian history, because no one knew what was going on all these years behind the residential schools until the Truth and Reconciliation Commission was established. In 2008, the truth about what happened to the children who were taken from their families began to be heard. My Cree name is Mahikan Mohteo, and my chief's name is Usaugi Heo. Cree name meaning walking wolf, and my chief's name is Golden Eagle. But also my name was number 65 when I was in residential school. And of course, my English name is Willie Littlechild. Willie was one of the three commissioners on the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
19:07A lawyer and former member of Parliament, this was a deeply personal experience for him. I was born on the Ermansk and Cree Nation and was raised by my grandparents until I was taken to residential school when I was six years old. So for 14 years I was being raised by a building and I say that because of the connotations behind that in the sense of being stripped away from your parents. So the bond of having a family was severed right at the outset when you were a little boy. Attendance at the schools for Indigenous children became compulsory in 1920 and they were taken from their families for a sole purpose.
19:50The records show that the purpose of establishing the schools was to kill the Indian in the child. So how do you do that? Well, you punish them when they speak their language. You take them away from your parents, and you prohibit anything that's related to you as an individual member of a nation. And with that stated purpose, the government then decided to hire faith groups, Catholic Church, the Protestant churches, by contract to run these schools. And that process of attempting to kill the Indian in the child resulted in horrific abuse for the students of residential schools. I had physical abuse.
20:39when I did something wrong or was accused of doing something wrong, one of the things that happened to me was that you were taken into a room and you were put into a position like you're going to do push-ups. But I was being hit with a hockey stick across my back, my lower back. And to this day, I have to use a walker to walk because my back is so bad. You're assaulted mentally, your identity taken away. For example, my name was number 65. 65, come here, stupid. Or 65, why did you do that, you idiot? 65, when are you going to grow up? See, when you grow up with that kind of loss of identity, it assaults your self-esteem, your self-awareness, and your pride.
21:29If you had long hair, like braids, the first day of school they were cut off. And that is a spiritual assault because your spirit is being taken away in a sense, brutally, by cutting your hair right off the bat when traditionally you were with pride and for a purpose, long hair with braids. So the physical, the mental, emotional, the cultural, and worst of all, the sexual abuse. And I don't want to go into detail there, but I went through that part of growing up as well. Willie's testimony was mirrored by the thousands of survivors who came forward and spoke to the commission during a seven-year period.
22:15Watching my parents disappear as soon as they left. I never knew about hell, but that's where hell started for me. I was picked up by my ears and carried into the back office. stripped naked and beaten unconscious because I spoke the language of the devil. There was always one priest that he used to say, my child, my child. He'd put his arms around you and then he'd be touching you and made sure that he had you cornered. I was hit with a ruler continuously. I was told that I was stupid, dumb, lazy, ugly, that I was a savage. I didn't learn anything. I didn't learn anything in that school. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission started as part of the Indian Residential Schools Settlement, a multi-billion dollar class action lawsuit which was brought against the Canadian government by survivors of residential schools in the early 2000s.
23:18Willie, along with the chair of the commission, Judge Murray Sinclair, and former journalist Marie Wilson, travelled thousands of miles across Canada, the world's second largest country, to hear the testimonies. But having to relive this trauma and hearing the pain of others began to take its toll on Willie and the other commissioners. It was a couple of years into the hearings. I was really getting tired. What I was going through was compassion fatigue because I was hearing these negative, negative, negative abuse stories over and over and over again. And I was not releasing them. I was keeping them to myself.
23:58I wanted to honour the witnesses by keeping their stories safe. But at the same time, I was taking that trauma internally. So we started getting counselling as commissioners right after the day's hearings. In June 2015, the commission was ready to give its final report and the findings were stark, as reported by the BBC. Judge Sinclair, who described the residential school era as one of the darkest, most troubling chapters in Canadian history, issued his damning verdict. Cultural genocide. Many of them told us this was genocide. What happened to us as children was genocide. Just look at the scenario.
24:45Look at what happened to us. Look at how many people were harmed to the point of committing suicide. or having other different consequences of harm. Even persons, little people that disappeared. There was many children who died in residential schools, but no one knew about that. Where were they buried? Who were these children? What was their names? 94 calls to action were issued, including the establishment of a reconciliation council and a national holiday for truth and reconciliation. 11 years on 16 of those calls have been completed and many others are in progress so when i look at sort of a panoramic view across the country i think we're moving along in a good way together working towards restoring respectful relationships and forgiveness is happening consequently the health is improving in that way from people that were harmed and harmed others I think we're on a good journey, a good story.
25:55Chief Wilton Willie Littlechild was speaking to Tim O 'Callaghan. A historic apology was given to survivors of residential schools for Indigenous children in 2008 by the Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper, which was repeated by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau in 2017. Protestant church organisations in Canada apologised for their roles, while Pope Francis apologised on behalf of the Catholic Church in 2022. Still to come, Brazil's troubled history of slavery, one of the most unlikely champions of the English Premier League, and how the 1980 Eurovision Song Contest gave the singing style of the Sami people of North Norway, known as Joiking, its moment in the spotlight.
26:38Mahte had never really joiked much at home, and back in 1980, Joiking in public was definitely still frowned upon. But before that, we have a moment in history which changed the way in which we see the world of the dinosaurs. In the 1990s, a fossil was discovered which became the first confirmed record of a dinosaur covered in feathers. If you like, it gave wings to the idea that dinosaurs evolved into birds. Here's Stefania Gotzer. It's October 1996, and the annual meeting of the Society of Vertebrate Paleontology is underway at the American Museum of Natural History. But the real buzz, it's not in the conference rooms.
27:20It's in the corridors. There, two scientists, one Canadian and one Chinese, are quietly showing a stack of photographs that's turning heads. When we were at the conference in New York City, my colleague Chen Paiji from Nanjing came over and he brought many, many photographs. This is Canadian paleontologist Philip Carey. It just went totally crazy. Everybody wanted to line up and see the photographs. And it didn't matter if you were a scientist with just an interest because you couldn't believe that after all these years, feathered dinosaurs had finally been found. Chen Peiji and Philip Carey were not scheduled to present any joint research at the world's most important paleontology meeting.
28:06Yet when they met there, word quickly spread that they were carrying something far more explosive than anything on the program. In the 1960s and 70s, the idea came out that maybe dinosaurs were warm-blooded. Not all dinosaurs, but certainly a lot of them. And if they were warm-blooded, then the small ones would need some kind of insulation on their body. If dinosaurs, in fact, were ancestral to birds, it makes sense that feathers is the kind of insulation that would be on their body. However, a lot of people said, We can't imagine a robin coming from a Tyrannosaurus rex. You know, unless you find feathers on a dinosaur fossil, I'm never going to believe you.
Read the full transcript
28:51But now, he and his colleague had that evidence in their hands. So how did they get it? When I was six years old, I opened a box of cereal and there was a free plastic dinosaur inside. And that got me hooked on dinosaurs. Philip grew up to become a scientist and got a job in Alberta, Canada, one of the world's great centers for paleontology. Some of the largest dinosaur fossils have been found there. But since the second half of the 20th century, scientists' attention has been drawn elsewhere, as this 2011 BBC documentary explains. One country now sits at the center of the new dinosaur revolution.
29:38China. In recent years, spectacular fossils have been uncovered here. Amazingly preserved, these fossils revealed exquisite new details. In the long period when I was growing up, I guess, the political situation between China and the West really was in very rough shape, we'll say. But Canada was one of the countries that seemed to get along well with China. Philip became director of the China-Canada Dinosaur Project, the largest dinosaur exploration program between East and West in the last century. It was through that connection that in September 1996, he learned of a discovery that had barely circulated beyond China.
30:30I went through Beijing, and there was a front-page article on a Chinese newspaper, and it had a photograph of a small meat-eating dinosaur surrounded by what looked like feathers. Ji Chiang, director of the Chinese Geological Museum, had broken the news of the discovery to the Chinese media. He invited Philip to see the specimen in Beijing. I was very surprised to be ushered not into a collections room to see the specimen. I was ushered into a conference room, and it was full of the press. Cameras and newspaper journalists and so on. I mean, the room was full. They sat me down at the front with Ji Chung and brought out specimens one at a time.
31:19Insects and fish. But I was starting to give up. I was starting to think, well, maybe they weren't going to actually show me the one I wanted to see. But then suddenly this one box comes out, and it's a Chinese silk-covered box, quite amazing, with red velvet inside. And there was a specimen lying on the red velvet. Within milliseconds, I realized that this was no fake. This was a specimen that was covered with something that, if it's not feathers, it's proto-feathers. It's something leading to feathers. And I became an instant believer. It was a Cinosauropteryx, a small dinosaur that lived about 125 million years ago in what is now China.
32:05It is now believed to have had feathers, not for flight, but for insulation. Philip had been invited to study it with Yi Qiang. But then... Something went sour during the press conference. and I wasn't sure what it was, but at the end of the conference, then there was no question that Ji Chang was finding a way to say, no, you're not going to work on the specimen. As it turned out, it's because of things that were said and translated in a certain way. I was questioning the fact that Ji had called it a fossil bird rather than a dinosaur. Ji Chiang believed it was the world's oldest bird, but Philip was convinced it was a dinosaur.
32:52He was a geologist, and he was training himself to be a paleontologist, because he had access to all these beautiful specimens from northeastern China. But when he saw feathers on the outside of the Sinosoropteric specimen, then to him, this was not a dinosaur, this was a bird. Philip went back to Canada empty-handed. But all was not lost. Li Fang is one of the farmers involved in the discovery. He spoke to the BBC in 1998 for a different documentary. I was digging and uncovered a large slab of rock. I thought it must be valuable. Half of the specimen ended up in one slab of rock and the other half ended in the other slab of rock.
33:41And the amateur collector, who was a farmer, was a pretty good businessman. And so he had sold half of the specimen to the Geological Museum in Beijing, and the other half of the specimen he sold to the museum in Nanjing. Chen Peiji was the paleontologist studying that other half of the fossil kept in Nanjing. He agreed to meet Philip at the annual meeting of the Society of Vertebrate Paleontology in New York, where this story began. Until then, news of the discovery had largely remained within China and Japan. It was at that meeting in New York that all of the world first learned of the feathered dinosaur, thanks to the photographs Chen Peiji had brought to Philip.
34:30And I was invited to go back to China almost immediately and go see the specimen in Nanjing. And so I was the only person for a long time who had seen both sides of the specimen even. Cinosauropteryx was only the first of many feathered dinosaur fossils unearthed in China. Its discovery sparked years of debate. Today, the scientific consensus is clear. Some dinosaurs evolved feathers and over millions of years gave rise to modern birds. Even major film franchises like Jurassic World have embraced this shift, with recent installments depicting dinosaurs covered in feathers. It's about time. That's the Canadian paleontologist Philip Curry.
35:15He was speaking to Stefania Golzer. Next, we're staying in the 1990s for a moment when the history of slavery in Brazil came under the spotlight. It started with a woman called Mese dos Anjos, who was just trying to fulfill a middle-class dream by renovating her house in Rio de Janeiro. But in the process, a very grim story from the past began to emerge. She's been speaking to Julia Janeiro.
35:47I got married, had three daughters, and each of them had a pet. So we really wanted a big house with space for them to play and run around. Mesej had lived in Rio's harbor area since she was a girl. She and her husband, Petrusio, bought an old house there built in 1866. After six years living there, they saved enough money to renovate it.
36:14On the first day of renovations, they were digging holes for pillars to build a second floor. And they found these bones. So José, the bricklayer, he sat next to me at lunch and said, Look, in the holes we were digging, we found a lot of bones. The old owners must have buried dogs in the backyard. I said, Well, that's odd. Can you show me?
36:43I started to go through the rubble and I found an adult's dental arch. I told him, So José, this isn't a dog's, it's a person's, look, it's just like ours. And he made the sign of the cross. Then I found another dental arch, tiny, and said, So José, this is a child's. He started to cry. Everyone stood there, staring. We were like, my God, what is this? We started to think, oh, the old owners of the house killed people and buried them. Oh no, it was a serial killer. A million things crossed our minds. That evening, Maesed called a neighbor familiar with the history of the harbor area. She didn't know that two centuries back, a wharf just down the road from her house was the entry point for around a million enslaved people from Africa, sold in slave markets in the vicinity.
37:43The neighbor showed her a map with a path to a graveyard. We had no idea of the story. He told me, you live over a cemetery. You've just discovered the cemetery of the enslaved people. And I said, oh my God, what do I do? Merced had uncovered the new black cemetery, where historians estimate tens of thousands of people were buried. Brazil received more enslaved people from Africa than any other place in the Americas, around 4.8 million people. And according to recent studies, Rio was once Brazil's largest slavery port. Today I say that there I found the Holocaust, the Black Holocaust. It's a part of history that we didn't read about at school.
38:40We would learn that Brazil was inhabited by indigenous people and that there were slaves in the past. That doesn't stink, does it? We knew nothing about the reality of how bad it was. The term pretos novos, or new blacks, referred to enslaved people recently trafficked to Brazil, who couldn't speak Portuguese yet. The makeshift burial ditch beneath Mercedes' home was used from the late 1700s until around 1830.
39:12It lies beneath four houses today. It's a place with around 40 ,000 people, among which there were bodies of babies, girls, boys, teenagers, women, including pregnant women. They came from Mozambique, Congo, Angola, some from Ivory Coast. And when they disembarked, they were almost dead. Conditions on board slave ships were so appalling, historians estimate that hundreds of thousands died even before landing in Rio. Many died soon after, weakened by malnutrition and diseases like smallpox and dysentery.
39:56Marced had a hard time sleeping that night. The next morning, she called the city hall. When officials saw the archaeological remains, they suspended any further construction work, and so the family had to move out temporarily.
40:13We faced quite an ordeal, because it was a heritage site, but with people living on top. We were banned from continuing the building works, but nothing was done to investigate the site. And so we feared that authorities would seize our home. After three years like this, the family decided to move back in and resume renovations covertly. But Merced was restless with all that history underground. She started inviting visitors in to share her discovery. And the word spread. On May 13, 2005, Abolition Day, the family, together with friends and activists, founded the New Blacks Research and Memory Institute.
40:57As of last year, the site has received around 300 ,000 visitors.
41:04Today, Merced is 69 years old and has long retired from the family business she used to run.
41:14Merced shows me the exhibition hall with panels about the history of slavery and two windows on the floor so you can see down into the archaeological site. Underground, the earth is intermeshed with countless pieces of human bones. The family lives next door, in the same old house.
41:37Tonight, the opening of an art show starts with a roda de samba, live samba music. The Institute is a vibrant center for research, education and Afro-Brazilian culture.
41:52Surrounded by visitors, Masej looks back over the 30 years since her finding. This moment brings back memories from my encounter with people who came from Africa. And they somehow asked me not to allow them to be forgotten.
42:16Maria Augusta, or Dona Gu, plays the Atabaque, the tall wooden hand drum of Afro-Brazilian religions. The exhibition hall is filled with paintings of black women who uphold Afro-Brazilian traditions by artist Daumone Lidjussi.
42:38Merced's discovery turned out to be the tip of an iceberg. Fifteen years later, when the city was redeveloping the harbor area for the Rio Olympics, archaeologists dug up the nearby Valongo Wharf, the old slavery port. In 2017, UNESCO recognized the wharf as a World Heritage Site.
43:01The region is known as Little Africa, and guided tours lead people to learn about its history and celebrate Afro-Brazilian culture. But Merced believes that the lack of consistent public funding for the Institute reflects a wider reluctance to confront this history.
43:20The pain doesn't interest them. They are interested in the upbeat, the festive, the samba. Of course, the samba is important. But before samba, there is pain. It's a struggle. I'm a white person fighting against our society's perverse racism. They don't want to keep the story alive. Do you have a feeling of accomplishment that you've fulfilled your mission? Not yet. I'm far from that. This is very fragile. If we let a day go past without talking about this, the memory will fade.
44:02The constant work of contextualizing the past for the people of today. Merced dos Anjos was speaking to Julia Canero in that Overcoat media production. Next, we've got this week's Sporting Witness. We're going back 10 years to one of the most unlikely achievements in footballing history, when Leicester City became champions of the English Premier League. It was described as one of the biggest sporting upsets of the modern era. Helen Ledwick has the story. Leicester City defy the odds to win the Premier League.
44:36Delirious fan celebrate as the club, written off at the start of the season, wins the title for the first time in its history. It's a dream! It's a dream! A dream come true! Leicester City started the season as 5 ,000 to 1 outsiders. and they've just won England's top football league. And then the whistle blows and everyone just goes absolutely bananas, goes mad. Wes Morgan has just captained his team to an historic title. Only one club outside the Premier League's established elite has ever done that before. And football's changed a lot since Blackburn Rovers finished top 20 years earlier. This is the modern era, billionaire backers, mega TV deals and sold out stadiums.
45:22You're kind of half not thinking it's going to be possible. And then the closer you get to the end of the season, the more it becomes possible. And then when it was confirmed and the impossible was reality, best feeling ever. So how did the impossible become the reality? Leicester had only been promoted back to the Premier League in 2014 and spent months at the bottom of the table. Yeah, we wasn't picking up the results, but we felt performances were good, were OK, and we should be in a better position than we was. And then you stick to your guns, you try and keep the faith, and you try and find something that's going to change the flow of things.
46:03And we left it very late, very, very late. And I think we only won three games before that, the nine games before the end. And then we won seven of the last nine. So remarkable when you think about it. So remarkable, it'll become known as the Great Escape. And Leicester City have the summer of 2015 to figure out what comes next. In June, Wes is on international duties in Jamaica, when manager Nigel Pearson is sacked. His surprise replacement? The former Chelsea boss Claudio Ranieri, who himself has just been sacked as coach of the Greek national team. When I saw that happen, I was like, oh, that's interesting because I knew what Claudio had done in the past.
46:48I wasn't sure about his kind of capabilities from this point on. And I wasn't there in pre-season, so I wasn't even sure if I was going to return and be playing. So there was a lot of unknowns, to be fair. Credit to Claudio. He said, Wes, I'm going to put you straight in for the game on a Saturday. So I was like, fantastic. You know, at least he has that belief and faith in me. The season gets underway and Leicester are organised, efficient and disciplined. Winning, drawing, rarely a loss. By Christmas, the top of the league. Ranieri's trying to keep things calm. He keeps telling the media the only objective is to hit 40 points.
47:26Leicester City make it six points out of six. Claudia, two matches, two wins, top of the table. Leicester are on fire at the moment. No, for us it's important to think match after match and to keep the point to save the club. That is important for us. 40 points and then look where we are. You're just thinking of survival? Yes, of course. This is the main goal. And after, we are looking if there is something better, we are ready. But now our goal is to fight every match. How was the last match? I think Claudio did great there, you know, with kind of keeping that pressure off the boys. Everyone wanted, well, all the media, the news, wanted that kind of punchline headline, you know.
48:13What can you do this season? Can you win the league? The message was from Claudio, no, we're just trying to get to 40 points, you know. That's the big target. And, yeah, it wasn't that message exactly inside the dressing room. But at the same time, we knew the task. We knew that, you know, obviously things can change very quickly in football. But let's keep doing what we're doing. and I think Cladier did fantastic with kind of keeping that pressure off us. The Foxes hold their nerve into 2016 and the next big test, a three-game run. Liverpool at home, then Manchester City and Arsenal away. Leicester beat Liverpool 2-0 and then beat Manchester City 3-1 at the Etihad.
48:53The team starts to believe. The way we performed, the way we kind of went to Manchester City's backyard and come away with the points, but obviously the three goals really hit us. And I thought, wow. For me personally, I thought we could do something special here, you know, and produce the impossible. And that's the first time I felt like that. And then they go to Arsenal and lose 2-1. But it isn't all bad, because something that happens in the Arsenal dressing room afterwards lights a fire under them. Some of the Arsenal players are sharing videos of themselves celebrating, posting selfies. We could hear the cheers anyway, but some of the boys on the phone had seen pictures of the dressing room, the Arsenal dressing room and all the guys.
49:35And I remember thinking, this is Leicester. Why are they celebrating? This is the great Arsenal. This is Leicester. And I think that definitely we learned a lot from that day in particular. And we didn't look back after that. Interspring and Leicester keep on winning. 1-0, 1-0, 2-0. A steady beat at the top of the league. There are just three games left in the season when they meet Manchester United at Old Trafford. They go 1-0 down. But Wes brings them level. That point proved vital because the next game was the Chelsea Tottenham and that's when it was decided. So my mum didn't come to many games, but she was at that game, you know, and it's fantastic to score.
50:16And I knew exactly where she sat. So you'll see on my celebration, I do a knee slide and then I point to the crowd and it was pointing to my mum. You know, fantastic because she probably comes to a couple of games a season. Leicester are close they could even win the title the following night they just need Chelsea to stop Tottenham winning at Stamford Bridge so of course the squad heads over to Jamie Vardy's house to watch that's Jamie Vardy, Leicester's leading striker so yeah it's kind of like a bit of a word of mouth and was like yeah you know that sounds good let's try and let's gather around Vard it's obviously you know it made sense so they're there feeling good the match gets underway but it's not quite going to plan, at least not for Leicester.
50:59So much hope and expectation before the game. There was a real buzz going off in the house and everyone's like, surely it's going to happen. Then obviously 2-0 down at half-time, we're thinking, nah, we're going to have to do it ourselves. It might not be. Obviously in the second half was a different story. Chelsea come back and hold Tottenham to a draw. Leicester are champions of England. So that's how the fans were celebrating as they watched the match. Let's look at Jamie Vardy and co-watching. Obviously, the final whistle, everyone goes ballistic. Everyone's going crazy, everyone's jumping on each other.
51:36I think there's some videos online of me getting dragged around the kitchen. I remember it so clearly, like, I'm being tired, thinking it's been 10, 15 minutes consecutive, like, shouting and screaming. And then everyone just took maybe 5, 10 minutes to respond to messages and just take a sit down and then, yeah, it definitely livened up again and it kind of rebuilt up and then started going crazy again. So, great memories, great time and I think it lasted for probably about six months. On Saturday 7th May 2016, Leicester City returned to the King Power Stadium, beating Everton 3-1 before lifting that Premier League trophy.
52:17To finally get a hand on the trophy, looking back and thinking where I was and where I come from. Just to play in the Premier League was an achievement, but to win the Premier League, never ever in a million years I thought it would be possible. To get that hand on that trophy, you'll see just before I lift it, I'll take a moment to myself, just close my eyes, just take a mental picture and then I'll lift the trophy. I needed to do that just to make sure it was real. Sporting Witness was produced by me, Helen Ledwick, using interviews from BBC Radio 5 Live and Cami and Ben's proper football podcast.
52:55Wes Morgan retired in 2021 after nearly a decade as captain, bowing out on the day Leicester City won the FA Cup for the first time. But the success has gradually faded and in 2023 Leicester City were renegaded from the Premier League and they're now in the third tier of English football. Finally this week, a story about the ever flamboyant and sometimes controversial world of the Eurovision Song Contest. The 25th running of the show took place in 1980, and it introduced the audience to Yoik, a unique vocal style from the indigenous Sami communities of northern Norway and Finland. Surya Elango tells us more.
53:33It's April 19th, and we're in The Hague in the Netherlands. 19 acts are performing in this international singing competition tonight, and we're already halfway through the show. So far, the audience has heard a whirlwind of styles. From Australia's upbeat opener with a lyrical tribute to the history of music, Turkey's glossy disco pop, Luxembourg's penguin costume novelty act, Morocco's first and only Eurovision entry with an Arabic ballad, Finland's flute-led piece, and plenty more. Next up, though, is Norway. By 1980, they'd finished last more times than any other country, including two null points.
54:14Their track record gave no hint of what was about to happen. Standing centre stage is Sverre Sjelsberg, a tall Norwegian musician known at home for his folk pop, which was popular at the time, and for fronting the 1960s rock band The Pussycats. Dressed in a light shirt and trousers, guitar strapped across his shoulder, he leans into the microphone and begins the opening verses of Norway's entry. It's simple and steady, the guitar looping beneath a chant-like vocal melody. Then, partway through the song, the energy shifts. An unknown singer, Matis Hatter, from the indigenous Sami people in the north of Norway, steps forward, wearing a gakti, traditional Sami clothing, a blue tunic with red, yellow and green trim.
55:08And then he begins to joik. It's a sound completely new to the Eurovision stage, a rhythmic, breath-driven vocal style from the north of Norway, rarely heard outside of the indigenous Sami communities at the time. So how did this community's private vocal tradition make it here, watched and heard by millions of people across the world? Well, that's a story that goes back to a community, a dam, and a protest movement that forced Norway to reckon with Sami rights. This is Inga, one of Matis Hata's younger sisters. She's speaking in Sami. A jojk is a person. It's a very close and personal description of that person through music, their personality, their traits, in a far more intimate way than words could ever express.
56:01Mathis, who the family nickname, Marta, grew up in a reindeer herding family in the north of Norway, with his mother, father and nine siblings. So Machte was the oldest and then there was me In 1968 the Norwegian government announced plans for a large 110 meter hydroelectric dam on the Alta Katakino River in Finnmark, northern Norway The project would have completely flooded their home village of Matze and threatened reindeer herding routes and salmon fishing which were central to Sami life, including the Hatter families It all began when they decided to make that dam near Alta. This was all very frightening.
56:45We were scared this new dam would flood my home village. For more than a century, the Sami had lived under Norwegianization, a forced assimilation policy that ran from the mid-1800s and started to phase out in the 1960s. The policy included state-run boarding schools that banned minority languages and forced relocation of whole villages. The Sami traditional way of life was pushed to the margins. Mahde had never really joiked much at home. And back in 1980, joiking in public was definitely still frowned upon by many, many more. But the joik never disappeared. In this time, people kept it alive in the places Norwegianisation couldn't reach.
57:30Out on the tundra while herding reindeer, in the mountains, or quietly with entrusted family gatherings. Joiking in secret or where no one could hear. But then in 1978, everything changed. The Sami's Joiking wouldn't be so secret anymore, which all began when the Norwegian government approved the Alter Dam. Our people demanded they stop, but the Norwegian parliament just ignored them. By the following year, Sami communities and environmental activists launched the largest wave of civil disobedience Norway had ever seen. Hunger strikes, blockades and mass gatherings at the construction site in Stilla.
58:15Thousands of people had gathered there. People came from everywhere, even other countries. There was a sense of fighting spirit that had been lit, but there was also a feeling of sadness. Mahde practically moved there, but would come home and tell us stories. Mahde told us he also taught others to Joik. It became something they bonded over, even people who had never joiked before in their life. But now they did as a way to show their support. One of the protesters he bonded with at Stilla was a young Norwegian musician called Sverre Kjelsberg, who had come north to Samiland as part of the wave of supporters.
58:59Mahte and Sverre soon became very close friends. And at some point, they started writing music together. and the song slash Joik, Sami Etenen, was created. In English, Land of the Sami was sung in Stilla, but also when the demonstrations spread to Oslo outside the Norwegian parliament. He told us they were going to enter Eurovision with it, and he explained that it was a protest song. One of the lines in the singing part of Sami Etenen directly translates to Joik has greater power than gunpowder. a Norwegian Jøjkastere kraften. And after submitting the song to Norway's broadcaster NRK who were preparing for the Melody Grand Prix Norway's Eurovision selection by March 1980 they received the good news.
59:51Sami Ednan was going to be Norway's official Eurovision entry.
1:00:00Before long it was April the 19th the day of the Eurovision Song Contest. Our whole family had come home to watch the Eurovision finals together. And we all gathered in front of the TV. I couldn't believe the size of the audience. All those people seeing and hearing him on that stage. It went straight to my heart. Our mother, she didn't say much, but she had a big smile on her face. She just said, he did good. But I think she was proud, since she was the one who had taught us all to Joik. It became the first time Sami language and Joik is broadcast to millions across Europe. The song finished 16th.
1:00:45But for Inga and her family, and for the Sami people, the cultural impact was far more important than the ranking. Mahde's performance at Eurovision gave higher status to Joik, to our music.
1:01:02Back home, construction in Stiller continued, and the altar dam was completed. Early plans would have flooded Inga and Matis' entire village, but the protest forced a redesign. The final dam was smaller and the community was spared. In the end, we weren't able to stop the building of the dam. The government did what they wanted, but at least we got our voices heard out in the world.
1:01:36I should have had a little cognac first. It would have helped my voice. Inga Hata, sister of Matis, he of the Yoich performance at the 1980 Eurovision Song Contest. She was speaking to Surya Elango. And that's it for this edition of the History Hour. We'll have more revealing and moving first-hand stories from the past for you next week. So until then, this is Max Pearson. from all of us here. Thanks for listening. Goodbye. Sporting Witness takes you to the events that have shaped the sports world through the eyes of the people who were there. We weren't going to ask permission. We were just going to do it.
1:02:08It was such an amazing feeling. It was incredible. He started to write a story about how he came up with the idea for the red and yellow cars. I got to go. We cried a bit. We laughed a bit. It was wonderful. There's a magic during those moments that carries your soul. We were truly blessed to be a part of history. Sporting Witness. Subscribe wherever you get your BBC podcasts.
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From the publisher
Max Pearson presents a collection of the week's Witness History interviews from the BBC World Service.
We start with the launch of Expedition Robinson in Sweden in 1997 and discuss how reality TV began around the world with our guest Misha Kavka, Professor of Cross-Media Culture at the University of Amsterdam.
Plus, a Norwegian Sami protest song that made history in 1980, Canada’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission which investigated residential schools and the uncovering a lost burial ground in Brazil in 1996.
Also, the 'sporting miracle' of 5,000-to-one outsiders Leicester City FC winning the English Premier League and the discovery of the fossil that revealed the first feathered dinosaur.
Contributors: Martin Melin - the first winner of Expedition Robinson. Misha Kavka - Professor of Cross-Media Culture at the University of Amsterdam. Chief Wilton "Willie" Littlechild - former Commissioner with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada. Philip Currie - palaeontologist who helped identify the first fossil of a feathered dinosaur. Wes Morgan - former captain of Leicester City FC. Inga Haetta - sister of Mattis Haetta, who performed the first joik at Eurovision.
(Photo: Group of adults lying by a pool with a film crew giving instructions - stock photo. Credit: Yellow Dog Productions)
