In short
The History Hour - Episode Summary
Episode Title
The Shetland Bus and Toxic Shock Syndrome
Host
- Max Pearson
Overview
This episode of *The History Hour* presents a collection of Witness History interviews featuring various significant events and personal stories from history, as narrated by key individuals. The episode covers diverse topics from World War II resistance efforts to public health crises in the United States.
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Key Segments
- The Shetland Bus Operation
- Featured Contributor: Leif Larsen, Norwegian sailor and skipper on “The Shetland Bus”
- Context: During Nazi Germany's occupation of Norway, the Shetland Bus was a clandestine operation involving Norwegian sailors who used fishing boats to transport agents and supplies between Norway and the UK.
- Key Points:
- Leif Larsen became one of the most decorated naval officers of WWII due to his bravery in these missions.
- The operation involved perilous crossings under threat from German naval forces.
- Significant missions included attempts to sink the German warship Tirpitz.
- The operation facilitated approximately 3,300 escapes from Norway.
- Dusko Popov: The Playboy Spy
- Featured Contributor: Dusko Popov, British double agent during WWII
- Context: Popov was a double agent for the Allies and is said to have inspired Ian Fleming’s James Bond character.
- Key Points:
- He skillfully navigated both sides of espionage, often using charm and deceit to gather intelligence.
- Notable for a significant intelligence failure regarding the Pearl Harbor attack, where his warnings went unheeded.
- The Symbol of Resistance in Argentina
- Featured Contributor: Adriana Lestido, Argentinian newspaper photographer
- Context: A photograph from 1982 featuring a mother and daughter became iconic for the mothers of the Plaza de Mayo, symbolizing resistance against the military dictatorship in Argentina.
- Key Points:
- The image represented the struggle for justice for thousands who disappeared during the dictatorship.
- Lestido's personal connection to the issue, having lost her partner to the regime, influenced her work and activism.
- Tampon Task Force and Toxic Shock Syndrome
- Featured Contributor: Nancy King Reame, Professor Emerita and researcher
- Context: In 1980, Toxic Shock Syndrome (TSS) emerged as a public health crisis linked to tampon use, leading to a significant governmental response and the formation of a task force.
- Key Points:
- 800 cases reported in 1980, with 40 fatalities, primarily affecting young women.
- The FDA assembled a task force to address the issues related to tampon absorbency and safety.
- Resulted in major changes in regulations and standards for tampon manufacturers.
- BMX History: The Extreme Games
- Featured Contributor: Jay Miron, Canadian BMX rider
- Context: The first Extreme Games in 1995 marked the codification of BMX and similar sports into a formal competitive arena.
- Key Points:
- Miron described his journey from a young BMX enthusiast to a professional competitor.
- The Extreme Games provided a platform for BMX and helped popularize action sports.
- Heinrich Harrer and the Dalai Lama
- Featured Contributor: Heinrich Harrer, Austrian mountaineer
- Context: Following his escape from a British POW camp, Harrer spent seven years in Tibet and became a tutor to the Dalai Lama.
- Key Points:
- Harrer’s experiences in Tibet and his relationship with the Dalai Lama are chronicled in his book, *Seven Years in Tibet*.
- Provided insight into Tibetan culture and Buddhism during a time of significant geopolitical change.
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Conclusion
This episode of *The History Hour* offers listeners diverse narratives from history's complex tapestry, highlighting personal stories of bravery, resistance, and the quest for justice. The contributors' reflections provide a deeper understanding of the historical events and their lasting impact on society.
For further exploration of these stories, visit [BBC Witness History](https://www.bbc.com/witnesshistory).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOIntroduction to History Hour
0:45 to 2:14
Overview of topics covered in this episode.
“the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world.”
The Shetland Bus Operation
2:14 to 3:18
Discussion on the Shetland Bus and its significance in WWII.
“Hello and welcome to the History Hour from the BBC World Service with me, Max Pearson.”
Leif Larsen's Journey
3:18 to 5:55
Narrative about Leif Larsen and his missions during the war.
“a group of Norwegian sailors set up a base on the Shetland Islands and began aiding their country's resistance.”
Challenges Faced by the Shetland Bus
5:55 to 7:58
Description of the dangers and hardships during operations.
“Leif, who had volunteered to fight with the Norwegian army, made his escape to Shetland in one of those fishing boats because he didn't want that to be the end of his war effort.”
The Tirpitz Operation
7:58 to 11:22
Details on the daring mission to sink Germany's largest warship.
“I and a few others went through it all during the time we were going with fishing boats, but we lost 42 men at that time.”
Post-War Reflection and Legacy
11:22 to 14:04
Reflections on life after the war for Leif Larsen and others.
“that it was a difficult thing to change over again.”
Norwegian Merchant Fleet in WWII
14:04 to 16:39
Learn about the contributions of Norwegian sailors to the Allied victory during WWII.
“After UK, after US and Japan then came Little Norway because it was modernized between World War I and World War II.”
The Story of Dusko Popov
16:42 to 19:02
Discover the intriguing life of Dusko Popov, a double agent in WWII.
“During the 1940s, there was a particular spy who became a highly successful double agent, as well as supposedly being the inspiration for the character James Bond.”
Dusko's Espionage Tactics
19:04 to 23:07
Explore the cunning espionage tactics used by Dusko Popov during the war.
“Keep on talking to them and try to build yourself up.”
Pearl Harbour and Its Aftermath
23:09 to 25:16
Understand the significance of the Pearl Harbour attack and its impact.
“Dusko claims to have given the details to the FBI, America's crime-fighting agency.”
Show all 23 chapters
Episode Discussion
28:00 to 42:00
“I just stayed there, kind of magnetized, let's say.”
Nancy's Legacy and TSS Awareness
42:00 to 43:55
Learn about Nancy's contributions to tampon safety and the rise of TSS awareness.
“At the end of Nancy's testing, her results showed that the super absorbent tampons took in much more blood than saline.”
The Evolution of BMX and Extreme Sports
43:55 to 45:08
Discover how BMX transitioned into a recognized sport with the Extreme Games.
“This week's Sporting Witness next, and this takes us to the moment when pastimes like riding BMX bikes and skateboarding were codified into proper sports.”
Jay Miron's Journey to Pro BMX Rider
45:08 to 46:27
Follow Jay Miron's rise from a passionate BMX enthusiast to a professional athlete.
“Like I wanted to grow up and be a pro BMX rider.”
The First Extreme Games Experience
46:27 to 47:20
Experience the thrill of the first Extreme Games through Jay's eyes.
“I got on a bigger sponsor and did more tours with them.”
The Challenge of BMX Dirt Events
47:20 to 49:13
Understand the challenges and excitement of competing in BMX dirt events.
“sensing an opportunity to tap into a whole new set of viewers, organised the first ever Extreme Games.”
Jay's Unexpected Victory
49:13 to 50:38
Relive Jay's triumphant moment that changed his life and career.
“So you're done So a lot of the freestylers that were going to jump Didn't even try Because they were too afraid Jay wasn't supposed to win this event His specialism was another form of BMX.”
Life After BMX: New Beginnings
50:38 to 52:25
Explore Jay's transition from BMX to furniture design and his reflections.
“she said everyone we know watch you on tv they've been calling me all night The next day, everywhere I went, people knew who I was.”
Escape to Tibet: The Story of Heinrich Harrer
52:25 to 55:20
Learn about Heinrich Harrer’s escape to Tibet during WWII and his experiences there.
“Finally this week we return to the era of the Second World War In 1944, two Austrian mountaineers fled into the forbidden land of Tibet to escape from a British prisoner of war camp in India.”
Arrival in Lhasa and Cultural Observations
55:20 to 56:00
Discover the cultural significance of Lhasa as experienced by Harrer and Auschneiter.
“In Lhasa, that would have been impossible.”
The Dalai Lama and Tibetan Culture
56:00 to 58:08
Explore the rich traditions and ceremonies of Tibetan Buddhism and the Dalai Lama.
“The Dalai Lama, the living Buddha, a child but the heart of the concentrated faith of thousands.”
Austrian Influence in Tibet
58:08 to 59:49
Learn about the impact of two Austrians on the young Dalai Lama and Tibetan society.
“The two Austrians made themselves useful with translating and engineering work and were allowed to stay in Lhasa.”
Reflections on Change in Tibet
59:49 to 1:01:18
Reflect on the transformation of Tibet as the Dalai Lama fled and the old ways were lost.
“Hara returned to Austria, where he wrote Seven Years in Tibet, a bestseller in the 1950s and later a Hollywood film.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I want to put all the issues on the table that keep me up at night. The interview. The best conversations from across the BBC. We're coming up against technology companies that are richer and more powerful than many nation states. With the people shaping our world. There are those that believe that the power of law should be replaced by the law of power. The interview from the BBC World Service. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts. If there was a big red button that would just demolish the internet, I would smash that button with my forehead.
0:43From the BBC, this is The Interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world. This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work, your politics, your everyday life. and all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.
1:10Imagine being here. Scientists have made the atomic bomb. The first one was dropped on a Japanese city this morning. Here. During the meeting, Mr. Mandela was informed of the government's decision regarding his release. And here. Witnesses have spoken of a wall of water that swept coastlines in Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Thailand. Hear from the people who were there. He heard me praying while he was shooting and he just stopped. He said, I'm not going to. I'm going to leave you here to tell the story. Knowing that you have a spy and that you're following a spy, it doesn't get any cooler than that. Witness History brings you first-hand accounts.
1:46Merkel gets up and says, I'm going. And Tusk says, I'm locking the door. Nobody's leaving. You're reaching a compromise or you're not leaving this room. Was it shopping carts that made you rich? Well, they didn't make me poor. Listen now. Search for Witness History wherever you get your BBC podcasts.
2:14Hello and welcome to the History Hour from the BBC World Service with me, Max Pearson. The past brought to life by those who were there. This week, the double agent thought to have been the inspiration for James Bond. Getting rid of Hitler and winning that war was so big that I don't think I ever stopped thinking that I'm doing something which is immoral. It's saving lives. Also the photograph which came to symbolise Argentina's resistance to dictatorship. At one point the mother lift the girl up and they shouted the slogans together. And well, that's where I took that picture. Plus the Austrian mountaineer who befriended the Dalai Lama.
2:56And the Tampon Task Force set up in response to an American public health crisis. There were 800 cases in 1980 alone, and 40 of them resulted in deaths. And these were young women, mostly, who were dying. That's coming up later. But we're going to begin with a dramatic story from the Second World War. During Norway's occupation by Nazi Germany, a group of Norwegian sailors set up a base on the Shetland Islands and began aiding their country's resistance. Using fishing boats, they made perilous journeys across the North Sea, smuggling agents, equipment and ammunition into Norway in a secret operation known as the Shetland Bus.
3:39Tim O 'Callaghan uses BBC archive recordings to tell the story of one of its most famous skippers. Leif Larsen, who was the most successful of them all... Oh, he was determined to get away again, they said. He was always ready to go. Leif Larsen, he was a man whom instinctively other men would follow. Leif Larsen, also known as Shetland Larsen, who would go on to become one of the most decorated naval officers of the entire war. At the beginning of the war, we had the Germans walking the streets in my hometown, I didn't very much like it, so I decided to get into the forces. I'm telling his story through interviews he gave to the BBC in 1981 and 1985.
4:28But before I tell you more about life's exploits, we need to learn more about the events of the 9th of April 1940, because that's where this story begins. This is the BBC Home Service. As listeners to our early morning bulletins will have heard, Norway is at war with Germany.
4:53The country of Norway in Northern Europe, which is known for its thousands of fjords and mountains, was caught completely by surprise when it was invaded by Nazi German forces that day, and the capital of Oslo fell almost immediately. Reuter reports that the Norwegian government has left Oslo and is going to Hama in central Norway. and the Oslo radio announces that general mobilisation has been ordered in Norway. The Allied countries of Britain and France went to the aid of the Norwegians. For two months they tried to push the German army back, but as France fell to the Nazis in June 1940, the Allies withdrew and the Norwegian government and royal family fled to London.
5:34But they weren't the only Norwegians who came to Britain. Fishing boats were leaving the western coast of the country, heading for the remote island of Shetland, halfway between Scotland and Norway in the North Sea but crucially part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I had a board that was given to us in Norway so I was sailing over here. Leif, who had volunteered to fight with the Norwegian army, made his escape to Shetland in one of those fishing boats because he didn't want that to be the end of his war effort. Well, we were sent down to London for questioning and so on.
6:11I had in my mind that I should like to go back to Norway, port them back and be sailing there, if they could use me in such a job. As it turned out, the British government could use people like life in such a job. Prime Minister Winston Churchill had set up a special operations group to work with the Norwegian resistance, and they needed a way of getting in and out of the country. So that's how it went on. I was sent back here to Sjötland later on, in the late summer of 1941 and started off with sailing. We brought to Norway mostly aliens who should do several sorts of jobs at home, for example telegraphists, saboteurs, people who are going to train the boys at home, and we brought ammunition.
7:11They also served as a route out of Norway for those at risk of arrest. But it was dangerous. Leif and his fellow sailors weren't in naval ships. They were in single-cylinder diesel-engine fishing boats. During wintertime, we had often hard storms to go through. And coming home to Norway, we had to go in on a course in dark nights. There was no lights, so it was quite difficult part of the operation too. We always had to be looking out for German watch sports and so on. Out at sea we had German planes who liked to send us some bombs and shooting at us. But we went through. Not all of us, though.
8:03I and a few others went through it all during the time we were going with fishing boats, but we lost 42 men at that time. And eight of our boats, we lost two. So we had rather heavy losses. One story that sums up the bravery of the men involved in the Shetland bus is their attempt to sink Germany's largest warship, The ship was moored in a Norwegian fjord to act as a deterrent against an Allied invasion to liberate Norway. The plan to sink her was this. 1. Sneak six English submariners across the North Sea whilst towing two-man torpedoes called chariots underwater whilst avoiding German detection.
8:532. Get into the fjord where the Tirpitz was moored, launch the chariots who would fire their torpedoes and sink the ship whilst avoiding German detection. Three, escape through Norway on land to neutral Sweden with the help of the Norwegian resistance, still whilst avoiding German detection. Easy, right? We trained with the battleship in Scotland and it all went well. We were out in bad weather with the submarines and all went well. The six submariners were hidden in a special compartment in the Norwegian fishing boat under sacks of peat. We passed the German watchpost until we come in the inner Trondheims fjord.
9:42Then things started to go wrong. It started off with very bad weather and it came from a direction which was very bad to us and our small vessel. It was heaving very much and we was towing those chariots. All of a sudden, the boat lurched in the opposite direction and the crew knew they had lost the torpedoes they needed to carry out the operation. We had to go overland after that because we couldn't go out with our boat again. We had to sink it and we had to go overland into Sweden. We had some hardships. We met some Germans. We had a little fight there. We lost Amanda too and we went by plane back to England again.
10:38This was one of the final expeditions for the Shetland bus using the Norwegian fishing boats. The British Navy, who were overseeing the operation, wanted something that was able to do the job quicker and their prayers were answered by the United States who gave them three submarine chasers, high-tech, fast, small naval boats. Arriving in 1943, these boats helped life and the Shetland bus complete a further 116 missions across to Norway, with no loss of life until May 1945. The day of victory in Europe was the day of freedom for Norway, isolated from our allies since 1940. With the war over, the men of the Shetland bus could return home, but for life it wasn't easy readjusting.
11:20No, that wasn't quite easy. I should say we were rather upset. that it was a difficult thing to change over again. So we had, as you say, I had a hard time after the war to bring myself back to normal life again. Leif Larsen died in 1990 at the age of 84. He made more than 50 journeys across the North Sea from Shetland to Norway during World War II and was awarded 11 medals for his service by the Norwegian and British navies, making him one of the most decorated officers of the war.
12:04Tim O 'Callaghan with the story of the Shetland bus and Leif Larsen. Professor Guri Yeltnes is an author and historian who's carried out research into Norway's resistance during the Second World War, and Guri joins us now. So how dangerous was it for people like Leif who took part in the Shetland bus, But also, how important was their contribution to the resistance in Norway? The Shetland bus is very well known and highly respected because it was an enormous effort. You know, those men were so courageous. I mean, traveling by boat, Norway was occupied. They took refugees, they took resistance movement, and they went over to Orkina Island, Shetland and Scotland across the sea from Norway and made their way over on their own, of course, not organized.
12:50and some men actually rowed in open boats across the North Sea. So it was impressive. And think about the amount. Around 300 boats were associated with their inland crossings and approximately 3 ,300 people managed to escape this way. So it was important. It helped save lives and it helped also to work on the resistance in Norway. Was it also psychologically important, if you like, a morale boost to think that these people were making this huge effort to help the resistance inside Norway? Well, of course, it was important. Norway had a border to Sweden. It was possible for resistance movements and refugees to walk over through the woods to Sweden.
13:28And the long coast in Norway made it possible for people to flee and go to UK. It was a privilege for Norway to be in such a position. And that helped fighting the Nazis that occupied Norway, that it was possible to go away when your life were in danger. And also, it wasn't just the resistance inside Norway on the ground, if you like. At sea, the Norwegian Merchant Navy was very large going into the war, and it played a crucial part in supplying routes around the world. Absolutely. The merchant marine in Norway was actually the world's fourth largest shipping nation. After UK, after US and Japan then came Little Norway because it was modernized between World War I and World War II.
14:12And that was 1 ,000 ships. And those 1 ,000 ships never left where they were April 40 when Norway was occupied. The German propaganda was massive. Go back to Norwegian harbors and the captains did not. They went to Allied harbors. So it was a fleet of 35 ,000 sailors on board a merchant marine, and they sailed in nearly all waters in the Atlantic, Mediterranean, Indian Ocean, Pacific, and actually some ships participated in the Arctic Congress to Murmansk. So this is the main contribution to the Allied victory from Norway's side. The Norwegian merchant seamen who were on board those vessels when Norway was occupied, they never went home.
14:54They just stayed on board those vessels working and supplying various parts of the war effort around the world continuously. Absolutely. If they were in a harbour like Liverpool and they went to a pub in the evening and the alarm came, sometimes they were invited to British homes. So there was a lifelong connection rebuilt during those worlds between a lot of sailors and also other Norwegians in exile. You know, the Norwegian government fled to London and constituted exile government along with the Norwegian king, also in London. So it was such a close connection between Norway and UK was developed during those years.
15:31It's quite something to think that Norwegian sailors took part in operations during the war as far away as the Far East in the fight against Japan from the Allied point of view, all the way up to being part of the success of the D-Day landings towards the end of the war. The sailors and the ships practically participated in all landing operations in Europe, from Dunkirk at the end of May 1940, Operation Torch, the invasion of North Africa in the fall of 1942, the landings in Sicily and Italy, and to the invasion of Normandy in June 1944. They sailed in the small boats, they emptied the ships, and when the water came back, the ships failed.
16:08And that was, of course, a large venture with British ships, American ships, other Allied nation ships, and small Norwegians. So it was really important. And I could add that Parliamentary Secretary to the British Ministry of Water and Ports, he said, in April 1942 for the Battle of Atlantic. The recent tanker fleet means the same as Spitfire is meant in the Battle of Britain in 1940, and I think that could be added to this story. That's Professor Guri Jeltner, specialist in the history of Norway's resistance in the Second World War. And we stay with the Second World War for our next story. During the 1940s, there was a particular spy who became a highly successful double agent, as well as supposedly being the inspiration for the character James Bond.
16:56Dusko Popov was his name, and Jane Wilkinson has been through the BBC archives to tell his story. You are honest but without scruples. Your conscience never bothers you. You are ambitious and ruthless, and you can even be cruel. You like to hit back, but you are not in a hurry to do so. Danger is a stimulant for you, but when you're frightened, you don't panic. That might sound like a description of Ian Fleming's fictional 007, but it's actually an MI6 profile of one of wartime's most successful double agents, Popov, Dusko Popov, or as he was codenamed, Tricycle. The weapons of espionage are not very ethical.
17:38Lies, treachery, blackmail, violence, even murder sometimes. But our dream of all of us getting rid of Hitler and winning that war was so big that I don't think I ever stopped thinking that I'm doing something which is immoral. It's saving lives. Meet Dusko, interviewed on the BBC in 1975. Born into a wealthy Serbian family, he was charming and sophisticated. An expert gambler and known womaniser who spoke several languages. And when war broke out, he was soon approached by a friend working for the Abwehr, Germany's military intelligence service. At that time, early 1940, the Germans had been in need of a spy that could move in all strata of the British society.
18:32And my friend, he volunteered my name without asking me. He said, I have a man and I believe his character is fit to be a kind of super spy. The Germans approached me. But what the Germans didn't know is that Dusko was vehemently anti-Nazi. He went straight to the British. There was somebody I knew to the embassy, and I told him about the German proposition, and he introduced me actually to the representative of the MI6 in Belgrade. Well, he encouraged me very much. He said, look, we do want to infiltrate the other. Keep on talking to them and try to build yourself up. and Germans put me on trial with a few less important tasks.
19:16Dusko's double life had begun. But right at the beginning I was very ignorant and I nearly fell in the trap because the German up there, man who recruited me, he straightway, without of course my knowledge, put a man to check on me. He bribed my father's chauffeur who sabotaged my car and then put himself at my surges, He said, I shall drive Newfoundland and write down all the appointments I had. At that time, I went quite a number of times to see the MI6 representative. And all that was in his reports to the Germans. So my career in the espionage started with the murder of that man. I found people who got rid of him.
20:01Dusko had proved his ruthlessness. And the unsuspecting Germans sent him to London to gather intelligence, under his cover as a wealthy businessman. There, British officers created realistic but false information for Dusko to pass back to his Nazi spymaster in Estoril, a beach resort in neutral Portugal. I was like an actor learning a part. You couldn't make a story just giving facts to the Germans. I had to address every story with small little anecdotes because they could come back and ask me a question How about your trip? What is the station you came? What hotel did you go to? Perhaps somebody from the German up there would know that hotel.
20:46He would ask me, where's the bar? And I had not to make a slip because in that kind of work, you are allowed one mistake and that's the last one you ever make. And it was in Portugal that his path crossed with a British naval intelligence officer called Ian Fleming, later known as the creator of James Bond. Both men stayed at the Palazzo Hotel in Estoril, enjoying fine dining, cocktails and the casino. The most comfortable way to spend a war is to spend it the way I did. My cover was terrific and I had a very exciting life. Something which really looks like taken out of a novel. They would think it's fiction.
21:29Which is probably why Dusko is widely reported to have been the inspiration for 007. That and his notorious womanising. One story suggests he earned the codename Tricycle after inviting two women to his hotel room for a romantic interlude. Although another, less exciting version, claims he was the leader of a cell of three spies. And of course, like Bond, Dusko enjoyed new technology, including the microdot, which allowed hundreds of words to be printed in a space the size of a punctuation point. When you read now the books about espionage, you see many gadgets. That's one of the gadgets that never got surpassed, I believe, the micro-dottom.
22:13It is really the masterpiece of transmitting messages, especially if you have plans or complicated messages. Unless you know where it is, you can't spot it. So, impressed with their productive agent, the Germans sent Dusko to America in August 1941 to set up an undercover network. and it was here that he came across the most significant intelligence of his spying career, a Japanese request for information about the US naval base at Pearl Harbour. So we knew that Germans or Japanese are preparing an attack somewhere, but at that time everybody thought about an attack on Dutch East Indias. It is only when I received the questionnaire that we realised what it meant.
22:58It was quite clear who, when, where and how he's going to attack. And I passed over that information. I didn't think much of it because I thought somebody will act upon it. Dusko claims to have given the details to the FBI, America's crime-fighting agency. But its director, J. Edgar Hoover, just didn't trust him. Well, Hoover didn't approve of my way of living. He didn't approve of having a penthouse in Park Avenue. He didn't approve my staying in a luxurious hotel. And then I want to take two weeks holidays. And I took a girl to Miami. I got approached by FBI men in Florida, telling me that I have to send that girl straight away back.
23:42I thought they are house detectives. And I thought I may settle that with a few dollars, bribing them. So Hoover received me and said, you try to bribe my officers and you're breaking serious law. He practically threw me out of his office. And then in December 1941, the Japanese launched an attack on Pearl Harbour. The$100 million stronghold, mightiest outpost of US defence, was bombed just after dawn. First reports say 150 enemy planes swooped over the base. Dispatches say two US warships went down in the attacks. When the news started coming in details, it was the most terrible moment I ever experienced.
24:22I couldn't believe it. I thought, well, they have been warned. It could have been a victory. Because they realised that in one hour and a half, America lost several thousand dead people. And it was now clear America is in the war. But Dusko was under suspicion. He'd sent little intelligence back to Germany from the US and had failed to build a spy network. Despite the risk of exposure, he returned to Europe. If you are in a game, you don't quit that game in the middle of the game. And I wanted to go on continuing it. It would be awful to spend several years fighting Hitler and not to know how he ended.
25:02And Dusko did survive the war without ever being unmasked as a double agent. I appreciate peace and happiness even more now when I compare it with those warriors. Somehow everything looks simpler and easier now. The British have been very kind to me. They gave me a medal of two. Thank you very much and good luck.
25:34What an astonishing voice from the archives. Jane Wilkinson brought us the story of Dusko Popov, who died in 1981 at the age of 69. I want to put all the issues on the table that keep me up at night. The Interview, the best conversations from across the BBC. We're coming up against technology companies that are richer and more powerful than many nation states. With the people shaping our world. There are those that believe that the power of law should be replaced by the law of power. The Interview from the BBC World Service. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts. If there was a big red button that would just demolish the internet, I would smash that button with my forehead.
26:23From the BBC, this is The Interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world. This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work, your politics, your everyday life. And all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.
26:50Still to come, the Tampon Task Force, set up in response to a US public health crisis, and the Austrian mountaineer who was a teacher to the Dalai Lama. The monks, they didn't like it very much that I had interfered, but the Dalai Lama wanted to know more about the outside world. But before that, the story of a photograph which came to symbolise a traumatic era in the history of Argentina. In 1982, Adriana Lestido captured a mother and her young daughter, raising their arms in protest. With clenched fists and anguished faces, they were wearing white handkerchiefs tied around their heads, representing the struggle for justice for the so-called disappeared victims of Argentina's military dictatorship.
27:36Rina Stanton-Sharva has spoken to Adriana about how her photo became a key image representing the resistance.
Read the full transcript
27:51The demonstration began and all the photographers went to cover the demonstration. And I stayed next to that mother and that girl with the white handkerchief. I just stayed there, kind of magnetized, let's say. and at one point the mother lift the girl up and they shouted the slogans together. And, well, that's where I took that picture. It's just three little pictures. First the mother with the girl lifted up, then I think the mother shouts, and then the two shout together.
28:30That final black-and-white photo, madre y hija, mother and daughter, was on the front page of the newspaper the following day. The picture would become a symbol of the resistance in Argentina and is still used today. The pair, wearing matching headscarves, are yelling, raising their arms in protest with clenched fists and anguish on their faces.
28:57I spent a lot of time trying to locate the mother. Many years later, I managed to locate her. because actually they are a humble family from a neighbourhood in Sarandí, which is a neighbourhood in the province. And then, well, they had gone to that demonstration because it was closer, but they didn't usually go to Plaza de Mayo, so I couldn't locate them. And when I finally located them, she told me that she was very impressed to see her daughter doing exactly the same gesture as her. It's like at the moment she hadn't realised it. She hadn't realised that I had photographed her either. Actually, she thought that obviously she knew the image, but she thought that it had been taken by one of the photographers who was there.
29:43They were a large group of photographers, and I was the only woman, so she didn't register me as a photographer. Well, that's it.
29:56The Plaza de Mayo in central Argentina is where these demos began in 1977. Mothers met here to demand the release of their children detained or disappeared by the regime. But the day the picture was taken, the march was held in the Plaza de Avellanada because of arrests in the usual location. Every week the mothers of the Plaza de Maggio, as they're known, demonstrate in an emotional parade, linking arms and weeping. The square is dominated by the President's palace, but the President refuses to see them. Argentina was under repressive military rule between 1976 and 1983, and many opposed to the regime were rounded up and detained, and thousands of prisoners were murdered.
30:50and I thought that the girl was the daughter of the missing person. Then, well, with time, when I managed to talk to her, when I located her, I found out the missing person was actually her brother, Abelino Freitas, who was a leader of Molinos. Molinos is a factory in Argentina and he was a worker delegate. And, well, he was kidnapped and he never showed up. I'm immersed in that. My life has to do with that whole situation. So it's not like I was participating in a march for the missing person from the outside, right? It's part of the basis of my life.
31:32That's because the picture also represents Adriana's pain. In 1978, her husband, the activist Guillermo Morali, who was known as Willy, disappeared.
31:48My partner is missing. He was murdered by the military. He was kidnapped by the civil military dictatorship, and he's still missing. I couldn't say how it affected me to participate in those mobilizations. I was a militant as well, and it is obvious that the topic of the disappeared touches me very closely. And I always thought that the topic of the disappeared and his death is in the dark zone that drives all my work. In fact, I started taking pictures a year after his disappearance. He disappeared in 1978. I started studying cinema in 1979 and there I took some photography courses and that's when I discovered photography and I embraced it with my soul and my life.
32:41and in 1980 I started studying photography. But I think that it has to do with his disappearance and not only that, what happened here in Argentina, the disappearance of so many people, the murder of so many people, had to do with perhaps embracing photography as an expressive medium, which is the medium of light in some way to conjure up so much darkness. Those are things that I thought about later.
33:22Adriana is still in touch with Blanca, the mother in that photo, and even sends her artwork that people have made using her original image.
33:39The struggle of mothers of Plaza de Mayo, the courage of the mothers of Plaza de Mayo, who in the middle of the dictatorship, women who were mostly housewives, who had never had anything to do with marches or mobilizations or anything, and who in the middle of the dictatorship went out to confront the military. And it was the first resistance against the dictatorship, which is still going on. that came and that grows with time. What matters is that it's an image that came and that grows with time, that continues to grow, that continues to spread, that travels the world, that many feel it's their own, and that something happens that is very important, that goes beyond the circumstances.
34:30It goes beyond the disappearance of the brother of that woman and the uncle of that girl. it goes beyond the echo that image can have in my life or the disappearance of my husband and so many loved ones and the injustice and the pain that was experienced here in Argentina it goes beyond that because feminists take it as an image of struggle and suddenly it reaches other places that have nothing to do with Argentina so that it transcends its circumstances and that it's a human symbol in some way. Because suddenly feminists take it as a fight image. And suddenly it comes to other places that have nothing to do with Argentina.
35:19So it's to transcend their circumstances and to be a human symbol, in some way. The words of the Argentine photographer Adriana Lestido. she was speaking to Rena Stanton Sharma. Next, we've got a medical story from the past, and this is focused on a public health crisis in the US. In 1980, toxic shock syndrome, or TSS, emerged as a growing problem among women who used tampons. There were hundreds of cases, a special task force was set up, and there were court cases. GoldArthur has been speaking to Nancy King Ream, who was part of the task force. There were 800 cases in 1980 alone, and 40 of them resulted in deaths.
36:09And these were young women, mostly, who were dying, all linked with this commonality of using tampons. Nancy King Ream was a young researcher in the early 80s who was studying hormones and the menstrual cycle. She was paying close attention as the cases of toxic shock syndrome gathered public attention. Here's a report from local station KCAU in Iowa. I could barely move my arms and my legs. They were real weak. And my eyes, they had their bloodshot and they had hemorrhages in them. Researchers believe TSS starts with a vaginal infection. The tampon scratches the vaginal lining, and that causes infectious bacteria to spread into the bloodstream.
36:51The Centers for Disease Control linked superabsorbent tampons with this infection. And in the wake of deaths from TSS, there were lawsuits and settlements against tampon manufacturers. As a response to the crisis, in 1982, the Food and Drug Administration assembled a tampon task force, which brought together tampon companies and consumer and women's advocacy groups. Nancy was invited to join by her mentor, Esther Rome, who had authored the now famous book, Our Bodies, Ourselves. Esther was one of the strongest advocates and eloquent, outspoken. Esther asked Nancy to come on board because they needed an independent lab to test these tampons.
37:36This was when toxic shock syndrome was at its peak. And Rely was the product that seemed to really be heavily linked with deaths. According to data from the Centers for Disease Control, the tampon that was statistically linked with this was a brand called Rely. When you actually opened it up out of the applicator, it looked like a teabag, and inside the teabag were all these little chips, like styrofoam chips from a styrofoam cup, and this carboxymethylcellulose, which really, oh, just sucked up the menstrual blood. And over time, the tampon itself got bigger and bigger, and more and more blood was absorbed.
38:22And women loved them, and they weren't taking them out. But when they tried to take them out, they found out that they had absorbed all the moisture in their vagina, so it was very difficult to take them out. They were so effective. And that effective absorbency turned out to be problematic. As for the Rely brand of tampons, Procter & Gamble recalled the product in 1980, under pressure of negative publicity, but disputed the link to TSS. So all the other tampon companies said, are we liable too? As it turned out, there was no one standard way to measure absorbency. Nancy was to carry out blind testing on these tampons without knowing the brands behind them.
39:03And then she found out the testing tool she was meant to use. The Syngina, which stood for, I think, synthetic vagina. that conjures up all kinds of crazy images, right? Well, the Syngina looks nothing like that. It looks like an eighth grade science project. You can Google it. It's a bunch of glass bottles and a water bath and tubing. And what flows in is the actual, the dye, the saline in one end of the glass bottle. And there's a tampon that's inserted into a condom that is supposed to replicate the vagina, and then the water bath is supposed to simulate the pressures against the vagina within this glass bottle.
39:50I mean, it's crazy, right? The blue dyed Syngina liquid was salt water, and this presented one of Nancy's biggest problems in testing. I was flabbergasted. I had been working with real menstrual fluid, And it is clearly a much thicker, more viscous liquid. Everybody, every woman knows that. But the only women at that meeting was myself and Esther Rome. So Nancy asked the question. Why aren't we using menstrual fluid? Oh, well, that's ridiculous, they all said, all the lawyers and all the tampon company representatives around the table. We can't do that. It's going to gunk up the syngina. The FDA sent a syngina to her lab, and Nancy and her team, all women, unboxed it.
40:40We called her Sally. We thought this is such a hoot. We've got to, you know, enjoy some of this. Since it seems so ridiculous, we went ahead and used not menstrual blood. Because how do you standardize menstrual blood across women, even across the same woman? It changes, you know, measurably. It changes pH, it changes viscosity, it changes amount, flow rate, and all those studies I had done prior to doing this absorbency test. So I knew all of that. So Nazzy decided to work instead with heparinized blood with no clots in it, which she got from a hospital blood bank. She tested the tampon samples with this, as well as the blue-dyed saline, all on the Syngina.
41:26Meanwhile, the task force meetings continued. There were comments more about, well, how tampons were never going to go out of style because women needed tampons because that was the only thing that could protect them. And that, of course, Esther was not happy about that. And she basically said, actually, this is not a disease. I don't need a medicine. I think you're thinking of menstruation as an illness. And the whole vibe of that group and the work of the committee kind of changed. And there was more respect. At the end of Nancy's testing, her results showed that the super absorbent tampons took in much more blood than saline.
42:10It was a substantial finding. And some of the tampon companies had to re-engineer their products as a result. But they wouldn't allow her results to be published because they considered it a trade secret. A few years later, Nancy's lab summarized the results for a letter to the editor in a widely read medical journal. Which wasn't very much, but at least it's on the record. And that was kind of the end, my final job, I guess. The task force was eventually dismantled in 1985. Nancy remembers it went out with a whimper, not a bang. The FDA was moving on to other things. It felt like I had accomplished something, you know, set a standard for absorbency.
42:52It wasn't until 1990 that a standardization of absorbency across all brands was released through this public service announcement from the FDA. Until now, a uniform labeling system that would permit consumers to compare absorbency between different tampon brands did not exist. So the Super Plus label on this brand and the Super Plus label on this brand did not necessarily mean the same thing. That's changing. The FDA also recommended alternating between tampons and pads. Today, all tampon boxes have information printed on the side that indicates their absorbency, the legacy of Nancy's work. Cases of toxic shock syndrome dropped dramatically after 1986, thanks to these national changes in absorbency and manufacturing standards.
43:42It was toxic shock syndrome that ushered in the menstrual movement to the public discourse for the first time. and tampon safety is still a topic that shows up in the headlines even today. GoldArthur was speaking to Nancy King-Ream, whose work on TSS helped change the law in the US. This week's Sporting Witness next, and this takes us to the moment when pastimes like riding BMX bikes and skateboarding were codified into proper sports. In 1995, the Canadian BMXer Jay Miron took part in the first ever Extreme Games. The event, now rebranded as the X Games, has been held every year since and become a global phenomenon.
44:26Jay Mirren, known in the sport as the Canadian Beast, has been speaking to Guy Kilty. It was thrilling, it was awesome, but I didn't understand it would change my life. Like literally, in every sense of the term change your life, it changed my life. Growing up in the city of Thunder Bay in the Canadian province of Ontario, Jay took to riding at the age of five. BMX started for me the day I got on a bike. I learned to ride it easily. I literally got on it and off I went pedalling down the street. I grew up jumping my bike all over the neighbourhood. I knew every bank, bump, jump, you name it. And then I found out there was a sport called BMX and I started racing and that was it.
45:12Like, there was never a choice. Like I wanted to grow up and be a pro BMX rider. And when I was 16, I told all my friends that was what I was going to do. And they thought I was nuts, you know, but it worked out. People joke like I was born to do this, but I really believe I was born to ride a BMX bike. It was daunting, but Jay turned pro when he was 18. If you turned pro before you were ready, you were going to get ridiculed pretty badly. So you didn't do that. Yeah, I knew I was ready. I ended up, it was in Indianapolis, Indiana. I got second in one discipline on the mini ramp, and then I got third the next day in the big vert ramp.
45:51And everyone high-fived me and said, you were ready, man. Congratulations, you turned pro. Jay's first few years as a professional in the early 90s were a far cry from the glamour and adulation he would experience later. It was a struggle. My first pro tour, because the way we made money before the X Games was doing shows. and demonstrations. And one of the guys said, I'm putting a tour together coast to coast across Canada. Do you want to ride in it? And I said, sure. So I think it was five days or seven days after I graduated from high school. Gradually, though, things started to get better.
46:28I got on a bigger sponsor and did more tours with them. And they sent me overseas for my first time to Seoul, Korea, and then to Budapest, Hungary. And that's when I got my first thrill of overseas travel and whenever I wasn't traveling I was back in Thunder Bay flipping pizzas doing whatever it took and I had this belief because when we did the shows I could see it in the people's eyes that it was exciting and I could see that probably just like a band saying man the crowd's loving us like we're gonna hit it's just that when you know and I did that for five years and then it hit. Action sports like BMXing, skateboarding and bungee jumping were popular among young people in the early 90s, but they barely featured on TV.
47:18That all changed in 1995 when a US sports network, sensing an opportunity to tap into a whole new set of viewers, organised the first ever Extreme Games. Not only that, they committed to televising everything. For Jay, this was a whole new experience. We got to the event and I saw the cameras, the camera towers. I saw boom cameras for the first time. I saw a cable camera for the first time. That's when I was like, this is nuts. Like, I'd never seen anything like it and I never knew those types of cameras even existed. The technical equipment may have been impressive, but not everything was. The accommodations actually sucked.
48:01They had us in a university dorm. I mean, you put a bunch of skateboarders and BMXers in a university dorm, you know what's going to happen. There's fights, parties, God knows what, you know. So it was a bit of a disaster. Jay competed in the BMX Dirt event. But what exactly did that involve? Well, freestyle is doing the tricks and the wild moves and the backflips and the spin, and racing's going as fast as you can around the track. The thing that kind of brings our sports together and makes it one big thing called BMX is dirt. Because it's kind of half freestyle, it's half racing. You know, you got the going fast and the going big from racing and then you got the tricks from freestyle.
48:46Each rider gets four opportunities to hurtle down the dirt track, up the ramp and then perform tricks in the air before landing. A team of judges score them on difficulty, execution and creativity And the jump is massive It's a 6 or 7 foot tall take off A 20 foot gap with nothing And then the landing And if you don't quite make the landing You hit a vertical wall So you're done So a lot of the freestylers that were going to jump Didn't even try Because they were too afraid Jay wasn't supposed to win this event His specialism was another form of BMX. I was not known as a dirt jump rider. I was known as a ramp guy.
49:31And nobody knew I grew up racing and I could jump big jumps. So they made a really big jump so that a freestyle guy wouldn't win. Before the main BMX dirt event, Jay and the other competitors did a few jumps to get warmed up. It did not go to plan. It was maybe only my second or third time jumping a jump that big. so my timing was off. It was more than double the length I was used to jumping so I over-rotated, stomped my foot and rolled my ankle. That's what happened. But adrenaline is wonderful when you're an action sports athlete and the athletic trainers were there to wrap me up and ice me and off I went.
50:11I started with a big backflip. I always like to start with a big bang and end with a big bang. I do not remember jump number two. number three was a big 360 and then number four it's a 360 with a bar spin thrown in and that was my big grand final and nobody thought I was going to try it over a jump that big but I nailed it I talked to my mom I called her to tell her I won and she said yeah I know I watch you on tv she said everyone we know watch you on tv they've been calling me all night
50:49The next day, everywhere I went, people knew who I was. So it aired in enough houses that all the people in America and Canada, they knew. So that was thrilling. Jay would go on to compete in the X Games for the next decade, travelling the world, while the TV networks fuelled the rivalries between him and the other athletes. I was the Canadian beast, the meanest guy of BMX. I was the bad guy. All my sponsors loved it. I hated it. But I ended up, I would go with it and I would laugh about it. You know, but I never did like it. We didn't know anything. We had no idea what was going to happen to us.
51:27And then just boom, we were the next big thing in American pop culture. Like it was hard to put into words how life-changing that is. It's now more than 30 years since Jay's win in the first Extreme Games. it couldn't have turned out any better. Like, there's people that get to live their dreams, and then there's people that get to live their wildest dreams. I lived a life far more amazing than all of my wildest dreams. I got to travel all over the world with my best friends, doing what I love to do. I look back on it with the best memories you could ever have. When my sport ended, I got into the business side of BMX, but I didn't like it.
52:14I didn't like sitting at a desk and I didn't like being so close to the auction and not being able to ride. So I sold my businesses, I went to school, I learned to design and build furniture and now I own a little business designing and building handcrafted furniture and I really enjoy it.
52:36Jay Miron was talking to Guy Kilty. Finally this week we return to the era of the Second World War In 1944, two Austrian mountaineers fled into the forbidden land of Tibet to escape from a British prisoner of war camp in India. Heinrich Harrer and his friend Peter Auschneiter spent seven years there. Harrer became a tutor to the young Dalai Lama, Tibet's spiritual leader, and later wrote the famous account of his visit called Seven Years in Tibet. Simon Watts tells their story using the BBC archives. It's early 1946. After a journey lasting two years, two Austrian mountaineers finally reached the fabled city of Lhasa.
53:23It was January 15, 1946, when we for the first time saw the gleaming golden roofs of the Potala. We felt inclined kneeling down on our knees like the Tibetan pilgrims do when they for the first time see this holy palace of the Dalai Lama. With their clothes in tatters, Heinrich Harrer and his friend Peter Auschneiter entered a city that only a handful of outsiders had been given permission to see. It was late in the afternoon when we reached this famous western gate. We walked just through together with all the other pilgrims, with the merchants, with farmers, with caravans, with donkeys bringing loads into Lhasa.
54:11We had read so much about this holy city. It was forbidden. The whole country was forbidden. and now we had reached the dream of our life. Harare and Auschneiter were on the run from the British army in India. Shortly before World War II, they joined a Nazi mountaineering team who were arrested while scouting a peak in the Himalayas. After nearly five years in Indian detention camps, the pair escaped in 1944, taking the only route the British were unlikely to follow. First they hiked over one of the world's highest mountain passes. Then they crossed the seemingly endless Tibetan plateau. When we, on our escape, travelled for almost two years through the western part and met all the peasants and the nomads, they didn't know of the First World War or that there was a Second World War just going on.
55:10We, as Europeans, could go through the nomads' countries, for instance as Indians or Nepalese. We would have just been chillings, what they called all the foreigners. In Lhasa, that would have been impossible. The day when we reached Lhasa, they recognised us immediately. For some Europeans, and couldn't believe that we had come in winter through the so-called Changtang to the northern plains. Traders had brought something of the modern world to Lhasa. Harra was struck by seeing Bing Crosby records and lipstick in the market, but life in the city was still dominated by Buddhism. The two Austrians watched with fascination rituals that hadn't changed for hundreds of years, as Harra recalled in his book Seven Years in Tibet, read here by an actor.
56:03The Dalai Lama, the living Buddha, a child but the heart of the concentrated faith of thousands. In the spring, he would leave the Bhutala in a gorgeous procession for the summer palace. It marked the beginning of the warm season. Pilgrims from the remotest parts of Tibet would undergo countless hardships in order to witness once in their lives this brilliant manifestation of their religious faith.
56:37First came servants with the god-king's personal effects, carried in bundles. At an interval behind, rode monks with banners decorated with texts. We could not close our hearts to the religious fervour that radiated from everyone. Pious texts are constantly on their lips. Prayer wheels turn unceasingly. Some sit beside running streams, dipping images of Buddha into the current.
57:06The highlight of the Buddhist calendar were the celebrations marking Lunar New Year. Now came an athletics gathering. This tour was an important ritual that had to be performed. Men came out of the crowd to take each other on in wrestling bouts that had their own particular rules. There was no distinction between winners and losers. Both got a reward.
57:38We saw strange frame-like objects rising from the ground. They were for sculptures made by the monks out of butter of different colours. In the evening, there is a competition between monasteries in the production of these masterpieces, but by daybreak, they will have vanished. Their destruction is to drive home the Buddhist theme that all life is transitory and has no more substance than dreams.
58:08The two Austrians made themselves useful with translating and engineering work and were allowed to stay in Lhasa. In winter, Haro took particular delight in teaching Tibetans how to ice skate on the lake below the Potala Palace. One day, the 10-year-old Dalai Lama looked down with amazement at this walking on knives. He asked to meet Harrah, who then became his English tutor, as the Austrian recalled for the BBC. The young god king was extremely intelligent. Sometimes I gave him lessons, say about 10 sentences to make for the next day, and next day he had made 30 or 40. Harrah taught the Dalai Lama about everything from jet engines to international politics.
58:55It was very easy to be his tutor. Of course, I had always the difficulty of overcoming the opposition of the monks. They didn't like it very much that I had interfered with their sphere of interest. But the Dalai Lama wanted to know more about the outside world.
59:24For centuries, the Buddhist kingdom had tried to remain isolated, even though it was encircled by Russia, China and the British Empire. Hara didn't know it, but these were to be the last years of the old Tibet. In 1951, Chinese troops invaded, and the two Austrians were told to leave for their own safety. In 1959, the Dalai Lama himself had to flee. Among those waiting to greet him in India was Heinrich Harrer.
1:00:18and whether he still remembered me. The two men became Trok Po for life. Hara returned to Austria, where he wrote Seven Years in Tibet, a bestseller in the 1950s and later a Hollywood film. He continued to explore, but nowhere meant as much to him as Tibet, a lost world he felt privileged to have known. We loved very much to live in Tibet, and it was with great regret that we left it here. everybody is just racing around and nobody seems to have time for meditation or to think a subject over and people seem to be living only to make money the yaks, I compare all the speed of Asia with the yaks the yaks walk about 2 miles an hour and then they walk only about 3 hours a day and then they want time to lay down and graze around and have their rest.
1:01:17And I think most of the people live there in the same way.
1:01:25First broadcast in 2016, that was Simon Watts with the story of Heinrich Harrer and his friend Peter Auschneiter, who spent seven years in Tibet. And with those images of a bygone, slow pace of life in the mountain kingdom, we've come to the end of this edition of the History Hour. All our first-hand stories are archived on our website, which is well worth a visit, bbc.com slash witnesshistory. And we'll be back with more for you next week. So until then, this is Max Pearson from all of us here. Thanks for listening. Goodbye. Sporting Witness takes you to the events that have shaped the sports world through the eyes of the people who were there.
1:02:03We weren't going to ask permission. We're just going to do it. It was such an amazing feeling. It was incredible. He started to write a story about how he came up with the idea for the red and yellow cars. I got to go. We cried a bit. We laughed a bit. It was wonderful. There's a magic during those moments that carries your soul. We were truly blessed to be a part of history. Sporting Witness. Subscribe wherever you get your BBC podcasts.
1:02:30I want to put all the issues on the table that keep me up at night. The Interview. The best conversations from across the BBC. We're coming up against technology companies that are richer and more powerful than many nation states. With the people shaping our world. There are those that believe that the power of law should be replaced by the law of power. The interview from the BBC World Service. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts. If there was a big red button that would just demolish the internet, I would smash that button with my forehead. From the BBC, this is The Interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world.
1:03:14This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work, your politics, your everyday life. And all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.
From the publisher
Max Pearson presents a collection of the week's Witness History interviews from the BBC World Service. Our guest is Professor Guri Hjeltnes, an author and World War Two historian.
We start with Nazi Germany’s occupation of Norway during World War Two by hearing about a secret resistance operation known as “The Shetland Bus”.
Then, we learn about a playboy spy who, during the 1940s, became one of wartime’s most successful double agents and the reported inspiration behind James Bond.
We hear how a black and white photograph taken in 1982, of a mother and her young daughter raising their arms in protest, became a symbol of Argentina’s resistance.
Plus, the public health crisis in America in 1980 that led to the setting up of the Tampon Task Force.
In sport, we speak to the BMX rider known as "The Canadian Beast" who took part in the first Extreme Games in 1995.
Finally, we hear from an Austrian mountaineer who spent seven years in Tibet and, in 1948, became friends with the country’s spriritual leader, the Dalai Lama.
Contributors:
Leif Larsen – Norwegian sailor and a skipper on “The Shetland Bus”.
Dusko Popov – British double agent during World War Two.
Adriana Lestido - Argentinian newspaper photographer.
Nancy King Reame – Professor Emerita Columbia University and researcher with the Tampon Task Force.
Jay Miron - Canadian BMX rider.
Heinrich Harrer – Austrian mountaineer who became a tutor to the Dalai Lama.
(Photo: Leif Larsen (middle) and other member of The Shetland Bus. Credit: Scalloway Museum)
