The 'trial of the juntas' and Evita’s missing body

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0:30What if I told you that most of history's underwear wasn't remotely close to the underwear you're wearing right now? Hi, I'm Greg Jenner, host of the You're Dead to Me podcast, and we're back with a brand new season. And if you're a fan of fashion trends of the past, you'll love our newest episode on the history of underwear. We explore how our underwear has changed throughout history, and whether TV depictions of Regency-era ladies in their lacy underwear are truly accurate. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:28had to prove that they were our grandchildren. And that's where we ask for the help of science, to be able to locate and prove that the children were ours despite the absence of their parents. Also, the man behind the first ever animated feature film and the Buenos Aires marchers fighting violence against women. There were many testimonies from people who for the first time could say out loud that they had been abused. They were saying it in a square where there were one many people who were willing to believe them. Plus the bizarre story of Ewe Perón's disappearing corpse. This is the room where Dr Pedro Ara embalmed Ewe Perón's body.

2:07This group of 20 people took the body and put it in the van and took the body all over the city through different places. But first, Argentina's 20th century history is overshadowed by a sequence of military dictatorships, the consequences of which continue to be felt to this day. But there have been attempts to confront the past, And that's where we're going first, to a courtroom in 1985, where the country's former military leaders are standing trial, accused of kidnapping, torturing and murdering thousands of Argentines. One of the most extraordinary trials in modern history is about to begin in Buenos Aires.

2:44Three presidents face charges connected with the military's notorious dirty war against its own people. With them in the dock will stand the other six members of the military junters who ruled Argentina from 1976 to 1982. Nearly every major human rights abuse there is will feature on the charge list. It was a case against the top people and no one else because armies are trained to obey. So the most responsible are the commanders. That's Luis Moreno Acampo, a lawyer who helped prosecute what became known as the Trial of the Junters, the first major prosecution of war crimes since World War II and the Nuremberg Trials.

3:2630 ,000 people disappeared or were murdered in Argentina during the so-called Dirty War. Military leaders claimed the victims were left-wing guerrillas, plotting terrorist attacks against the regime. The cruel reality, only uncovered after the present democratic government had taken power, was that the great majority of the thousands who were kidnapped, tortured and murdered weren't terrorists at all. Many were trade unionists or else just suspected of being opposed to the military dictatorship. The opportunity for justice came in 1983, when the new democratically elected president, Raúl Alfonsín, promised a trial.

4:05But when the chief prosecutor, Julio Césaire Strassera, asked for help, Luis wasn't the obvious first choice. For me it was honour, but I told the prosecutor I never did a criminal case in my life. And he told me, I know that, and it's better. Because if I have a normal prosecutor here, we never will do it. Because it's impossible. So your lack of experience will force you to invent something new. And I think the problem was many prosecutors were afraid to do it. They think it was dangerous. And that wasn't the only challenge the lawyers faced. We had to investigate these massive crimes in five months.

4:43But we cannot use the police because the crimes were committed by the state, by the police, so we cannot do it in a formal, normal, bureaucratic way. Led by Julio and Luis, the legal team set to work. They re-interviewed witnesses, took new statements, gathered more documents and selected the strongest cases to take to court. There was a huge, massive case and all of us, we were doing something historically important, so important. But not everyone was supportive. During the dictatorship, there was a total censorship. And they convinced the entire country that the regime was courageous and great.

5:28So my mother loved General Videla, the main defendant, because she said, I was with him in church. I cannot believe what you say is true. So from that day, one of my goals was, OK, we need to win this case, not just before the judges, but people like my mother, normal people, had to understand what happened in Argentina. The trial began in April 1985. Among the defendants were three former presidents, Generals George Videla, Roberto Viola and Leopoldo Galtieri. We basically charged them with three crimes, abductions, torture and killing. We had more than 800 testimonies in court. So each day people were learning something new about it.

6:15The cruel evidence of what had happened began to be discovered in cemeteries all over Argentina. It was no longer possible to deny that thousands of murders had taken place. Day after day, stories of torture and abuse were revealed, including one that resonated around the world. Pablo was only 17 when he and several high school classmates were abducted by the military. Their crime? They were demanding cheaper tickets for the bus. We told him, OK, we'll have to go to court with your case. Can you be a witness? I said, no, I cannot be a witness. I never told my story because as soon as I say I was abducted and in jail, people believe I was a guerrilla member and therefore I cannot study, I cannot job, so I always refused to talk about it.

7:04So we told him, please, we need you. Two weeks later, he called us and said, look, I talked to my family, I will present my testimony. In court, Pablo told how he'd been dragged from home, stripped, beaten, starved and given electric shocks. Tied up and blindfolded, a toenail was pulled out with pliers. And he explained to us, he was in jail with his eyes covered and in the other cell was a friend of him, a girl, who was crying all the time. One day, the guardian allowed him to go to the other cell, and he tried to hug this girl, and she said, Please don't touch me. Don't touch me. They hurt me all the time.

7:50I cannot do that. So he said, The day I was leaving jail, I told her, You also will leave in a few days. And she said, No, they will kill me. The only thing I can ask you is, each end of the year, razor glass to the heaven, I will watch you from there. And when Pablo finished, even the judges were trying to control the crime. And then he hugged me and said, I was waiting nine years to tell this story. But the military leaders remained defiant. Outside the courtroom, one of the generals accused told me, you got to understand, We're trying to protect freedom and democracy. And I said, General, you cannot convince me that you torture and you kill to protect freedom and democracy.

8:45And he said, Prosecutor, those are our values. They were the enemy. I understood then in war, you believe your enemy is no one. You can kill him, torture, no problem. And that convinced me the importance to stop wars and replace it for justice. Does it become more of a crusade than a trial for you? No, never a crusade. My responsibility was we do a perfect professional job. So I had to ignore those who were supporting and clapping and those who were insulting me. And after eight months, an evidence from more than 800 witnesses. The chief executor said, to end, I will use an expression that now belongs to Argentina.

9:36Nunca más. Your honours, never again. And all the calls start to clap. Very emotional moment. From Argentina, we've had results within the last few minutes in the trial of nine military rulers accused of mass human rights violations. They were five convictions, two of them life. ...life imprisonment to the two key figures of military repression, General Jorge Videla and Admiral Emilio Macera. Four of the commanders, those who were commanding after 1980, were acquitted. The four men acquitted include ex-president Leopoldo Galtieri and his fellow junta members who launched the Falklands War. With the five convictions, did he feel justice had been done?

10:20And it's never enough. But for Argentina, it was a learning lesson. And I was so proud because 10 days after the beginning of the trial, my mother called me and said, you are right, General Videla, he had to go to jail. And that for me was a big impact. So Argentina is an example for the world.

10:44That's Luis Moreno Ocampo, who went on to become the first prosecutor for the International Criminal Court. He was speaking to Jane Wilkinson. With us now is Dr. Vittoria Basualdo, who lectures in Argentinian and Latin American modern history at FLAXO, the Latin American School of Social Sciences in Buenos Aires. So we've just heard about those trials of the former dictators. But what were the events that led up to the repeated imposition of military dictatorships in Argentina? Well, the Argentine dictatorship is part of a regional process of dictatorships in the 60s and 70s. And I think the trial is talking about one phase of those dictatorships, which is repression, but they also meant huge economic and social transformations and loss of labour rights.

11:33The wider context would also be that of the Cold War in the middle of the last century. What role did that play in that the US was, I guess, desperate not to have left-wing governments in Latin America and so tolerated or indeed encouraged the dictators? Yes, of course, the geopolitical factors were really, really important and there were differences between the dictatorships. But at the same time, there was something in common, as you say. There was the concern about the radicalization in terms of politics, but also the role of the working class and the trade union movements at that period. So we have differences in dictatorships, but at the same time, we have common points.

12:11And the repression policies were closely linked to this offensive against the working class and the trade union movement. The dictatorship's pitch to the common person in Argentina was a populist one. I mean, there were several different juntas, but did they actually make any difference to the life or the lives of ordinary Argentinians? Yeah, the dictatorship in 1976 implied a turning point. Maybe this was not evident from the beginning, because as you said, there had been many dictatorships in Argentina from the 1930s onwards. But soon it became very clear that life changed very much. It was a project of structural transformation.

12:50So it meant a huge offensive in cultural terms, persecution of artists, of educators, of workers. All of the places were searched and ordinary life changed a lot. So repression was felt in the streets. Were there any who benefited, apart from those who were directly associated with the military? Yeah, that's very interesting because the trial of the Juntas opened not only the responsibility of the military sectors, the armed forces, but they also showed that there were specific sectors, in particular corporate sectors, business sectors, that greatly benefited from the dictatorship and that became involved in them.

13:32So the trail of the juntas not only opened the participation of military sectors, but also allowed later on, in fact, until today, that some of these other participants in processes of repression were judged. So corporate Argentina might have been, if you like, in favour of the military dictatorships, but those who are on the receiving end of the repression, as we've heard, it's estimated 30 ,000 people disappeared. But who were they? Well, initially, the dictatorship tried to show that the only ones targeted were those being part of the guerrilla organizations or political organizations. And of course, they were targeted.

14:13But at the same time, students, teachers, workers, trade unionists, churchgoers were also targets of this repression. Even kids at school, 16 years old, 17 years old, fighting for basic rights. So we're talking about a huge repression. And it was a feature of the years of military rule that the children, babies even, of the regime's opponents, those who became known as the disappeared, were effectively stolen. And we're going to look at one story to illustrate that in a moment. But this very week, there's been a milestone in the attempts to reunite those now grown up children with their real families.

14:49What's happened? Yes, this week we had wonderful news by the Abuelas de Plaza de Mayo. Some of the women that were kidnapped were pregnant and they had these babies in concentration camps. And these babies, they were relocated to other families and sometimes military families. So it was impossible then to find them. The abuelas are the group that searches for these grandchildren that were stolen. And with science, it was possible to develop a way, a scientific way to locate them. And this week, Abuelas announced that they found the 140th grandchild. He's the brother of Adriana Metz Romero that searched for him her whole life.

15:35And, well, the whole country is celebrating. That was Dr. Victoria Basualdo. And with more on that campaign to reunite families torn apart by the military in Argentina, in the 1980s, a group of grandmothers, the Abuelas, found themselves the unlikely champions of genetic science. Their efforts led to the creation of the world's first national bank of genetic data, as Vicky Farncombe explains. In a given moment, we considered that in addition to finding the children, we had to prove that they were our grandchildren. And that's where we ask for the help of science. We travel the world looking for answers to be able to locate and prove that the children were ours despite the absence of their parents.

16:23This is the late Chicha Mariani speaking to a BBC science programme in 1987. She was one of the founding members of the grandmothers of the Plaza de Mayo in Argentina who championed the study of genetics in their quest to find their lost grandchildren. In this programme, you'll hear them referred to as the abuelas, meaning grandmothers. Between 1976 and 1983, the military ruled Argentina and thousands of mainly young left-wing people went missing. Known as the disappeared, they were taken to detention centres where they were tortured and often killed. Hundreds of babies were born in captivity and their mothers assassinated.

17:15The children were often given to families who supported the regime and never told their true identities. This crime against children as a group is very well known here. And if a child learns, as a young adult, that they've been living all this time with people who were involved indirectly, or in some cases directly, in the murders of their parents, and furthermore that they had grandparents who knew that had happened and didn't look for them. To the minds of the abuelas, that will be far more traumatic for that child than learning the truth. American geneticist Dr Mary Claire King, also speaking in that BBC programme.

17:56More on her later. Our story starts with Victor Penchisare, an Argentine geneticist who had fled the country in 1976 to avoid being kidnapped. In 1982, he's working in New York when he gets a call. Two of the abuelas want to meet him, Ciccia Mariani, who you heard from at the start of this programme, and Estella De Carlotto. So this encounter happened in the room of the hotel they were staying in. And they were middle-aged women, very well educated, but very anxious. I could sense the anxiety in their postures and their questions. We were not successful in previous travels. The Abuelas had been all over the world, desperately asking scientists one question.

18:51Without the presence of a parent, could their blood be used to identify their lost grandchildren? I was prepared for that question, of course. So I told them that I could not see any reason why not, because by then, paternity testing was something that was done very commonly. They kept insisting that how come we had gotten so many negative answers to this question elsewhere. It's an emotional meeting on both sides. For the Abuelas, it's the first time that they hear the impossible might be possible. For Victor... I saw this as an opportunity for me as a geneticist, like a watershed in my life.

19:39Why? Because genetics was tied to a lot of violations of human rights, from eugenics to forced sterilizations to even genocide, as the Nazis did in World War II. And I said, well, this is my opportunity to redeem genetics of this terrible past. Before leaving the New York Hotel, the Abuelas demand quick action from Victor. And they said, well, you are Argentine, you are a geneticist, you are very well known, you live in the centre of the world. So what task can be more important for you than to find a way we can identify our grandchildren? And I was taken aback because I said, well, they gave no alternative.

20:29How did I proceed? Well, very simple. I called Dr. Mary Claire King, which is world famous by now. She was already a very big shot in genetics. Dr King had a lab and an international team, including a mathematician from France, a population geneticist from Italy and a molecular geneticist from Chile. Actually, she was even more optimistic than I that this indeed could be done. First of all, we worked out the theory that was involved. A few months later, Victor gets the call from Dr King. She's cracked it. Extending paternity testing to grandparents, in fact, is a perfectly natural and rigorous procedure to undertake.

21:18You have to remember that this was in the days before DNA testing. Here's how the BBC explained it in 1987. Grand paternity testing begins with a blood sample from the grandparents and the possible grandchild. Each sample is analysed to compare the gene types. Everyone inherits these types from their parents and grandparents. The most important genetic comparisons can be made using highly specific proteins found on white blood cells. They're called HLA types. Because many combinations of different protein markers exist, they can also be used to determine whether one person is related to another.

21:57The science is ready and so is Argentina. Democracy has returned and the perpetrators of human rights abuses are finally being brought to trial. In 1984, the first disappeared grandchild, Paola Locares, is identified using Dr. King's so-called Grandparent Index. Well, can you imagine I was thrilled? Finally, I was able to contribute to the redemption of genetics. One by one, all the grandparents and families of the missing children are being gene-typed. An official of the court is always present to enable the results of the blood tests to be used as evidence. With the backing of President Alfonsine, a national genetic data bank is being established at the Durand Hospital.

22:48It would enable comparative typing to be done even after the grandparents have died. Nearly a thousand samples will be stored, frozen messages to grandchildren they may never meet. Over the five decades of the databank's existence, thousands of people have come forward for testing, wondering if they are one of the missing ones. So far, 139 have been given their true identities. For Victor, the biggest moment comes in August 2014, when the grandson of Estella de Carlotto, the abuela who had visited him in New York all those years ago, is discovered.

23:35The empty chair is now going to be taken by him. The empty picture frames that were waiting to be filled are now going to have his image. I have already been able to see him. He's beautiful. He's an artist. He's a good guy. And he looked. He looked for me. The thing that we abuelas used to say happened. They are going to look for us as we continue to look for them. We have to continue looking for those who are missing because other grandmothers have to have the chance to feel what I feel today. I know exactly which kilometer in the road I was, but the particulars of that particular special moment I can never forget.

24:19Dr. Victor Penchisade now lives in Buenos Aires where he leads a graduate program on genetics, human rights and society. He was talking to Vicky Farncombe, the grandchildren of the victims of Argentina's military rulers reunited with their true families. Now, in total, 140 individuals.

24:56pastas and seafood everyone loves. Their build your own family meals feeds four for just$35. Stock up at Whole Foods Market. What if I told you that most of history's underwear wasn't remotely close to the underwear you're wearing right now? Hi, I'm Greg Jenner, host of the You're Dead to Me podcast, and we're back with a brand new season. And if you're a fan of fashion trends of the past, you'll love our newest episode on the history of underwear. We explore how our underwear has changed throughout history and whether TV depictions of Regency-era ladies in their lacy underwear are truly accurate.

25:32Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

25:40Still to come, the Argentine animator who Walt Disney wanted to hire. He drew a character on cardboard and then cut down the arms, legs and head. That way, he could move them. All this was 10 years before Walt Disney came up with Mickey Mouse. But first we're going back just 10 years to the moment when a hugely significant march was held on the streets of Buenos Aires. The aim of those taking part was simple, to highlight the shocking number of women being killed by men in Argentina. Josephine McDermott has the story.

26:22I remember the smell, the scent of some foods that were cooked on the street. In Argentina, when there are large gatherings of people, they cook something that looks like popcorn, it's sugary. They cook choripanes that are like pork sausages that are sold on the street, especially at popular demonstrations. Niuna Menos, on June 3, 2015, was a meeting to denounce, to demand another world. Agustina Paz Frontera was part of the collective that started the fight back. It's the largest march against gender-based violence in the history of Argentina. But how did it begin? Agustina can pinpoint when she became a feminist.

27:00In my personal case, I didn't experience gender-based violence to my own body. I mean, of course, I know about gender-based violence because I'm a woman, because I have friends, because I have family members, I have a sister. But my first encounter with a situation of gender-based violence was the disappearance of a friend of mine in 2005. We had both traveled from our home province to Buenos Aires to study, and she disappeared in 2005. Her name is Florencia Penacci, and we still don't know what happened to her. I wasn't a feminist at the time. I knew very little about feminism, and it was thanks to the work of mutual friends trying to understand what could have happened to Florencia that we recognise that there is gender inequality, that there is a specific type of violence that is exercised against female bodies and in that search for our friend, we became feminists.

27:58That's why when Ni Una Menos appeared 10 years later in 2015, I couldn't help but dedicate my life to that, to that process. Ni Una Menos, meaning not one less, began in March 2015 at an event where writers, poets, musicians and the relatives of women who had been murdered gathered in solidarity to share their written thoughts and feelings. Agostina designed the flyers for the event. They showed a nondescript patch of wasteland, the image of murder scenes often appearing in the media. It was reported that a woman died a violent death every 30 hours. The group decided on a mass protest, as reported on the BBC World Service.