The Foodfluencers: Dana’s Bakery Started With a Craving for Birthday Cake Macarons

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1:26Built Hospitality is available now for restaurant groups everywhere. Learn more at BuiltDining.com backslash hangout. That's BuiltDining.com backslash hangout. And check out what Built Hospitality is going to do for you and your restaurant. So what I did for this cookbook, because it is gluten-free, I wanted to make sure that the recipes were easy for people to follow, not just me because it was my recipe. I chose to shoot this in my house instead of a studio. So we took my house over for 10 days. It was 10 people in my house every day. And it was absolute madness. This is my laundry room. When you write a book, you get new press.

2:03And you get to do cooking segments on TV. And you get to do live classes and teach people how to cook things from the book. It's really, you get new partnerships. It's a door opener. To help grow. Yeah, it's a door opener. You know, LV. I'm trying to get Jimmy to write a book. He writes the newsletter every week. I can't write a book. I've been told I write a book almost every week. I'm working on it.

2:24Live from Amazon Business Studios in New York City, it's the Hospitality Hangout Podcast with the restaurant guy and the finance guy. And joining us today is Dana Pollack, the author. Wait, it doesn't say anything. What is it, the author, the baker? What am I saying? She's an author. She's an author. She's a business. She's an author. I mean, Julie, you're killing me here. Dana's Bakery, baby. Dana's Bakery. All right, listen. Anyway, live, we got Dana Pollack from Dana's Bakery here, founder, CEO of Dana's Bakery, author, extravaganza, a food fluencer, and it's part of the food series over here on the Hospitality Hangout podcast.

3:06Julie, once again, setting me up for complete and utter failure, but I do have a copy of the book here, so let's just show this. This will be our introduction. Look at this book. And I think, I don't know if it was me, but I know that Dana originally wanted me to write the forward. But then somehow, somehow, I don't know what Devin O 'Brien, how he got himself involved in this whole thing. But I was originally part of this thing. I'm just kidding. Anyway, Jimmy, we've got an incredible show here. We've got Dana on the show. Yes. I've got a script that I read all wrong. But that doesn't matter.

3:36We are continuing with our Food Flancer Series. And this is a special CPG edition, the consumer packaged goods for those not in the biz. I have the privilege of welcoming you more formally to the Hospitality Hangout, a hospitality-focused podcast where the founders of Branded share insights and bring technology and innovation leaders that are making things happen in the industry we love. Today, we're continuing the Food Fluencer miniseries. We're spotlighting the brands that are influencing what we eat, not just how we discover it. I gotta tell you Jimbo I love it and it's really unbelievable and you know I usually have time to prepare prepare for the show but because it was the Thanksgiving jubilation holiday weekend yes and we'll delve we're gonna dive into that that that whole Thanksgiving because I gotta tell you those steaks I brought to Greeny's those four 32 ounce porterhouse steaks yep all consumed Let me tell you something, Jimmy.

4:37They were waiting like wolves. I mean, he's cutting the turkey and people are talking. I come out from the deck or whatever. The steaks. The grill. And I come out with a platter, two platters, because these are big-ass steaks. And let me tell you, the wolves were waiting. And let me tell you, ask anybody. The turkey, they were packing that up at the end of the night. They didn't have enough bags, enough Tupperware to put the turkey in. The steak, Jimmy? There was nothing left, buddy. I have to say, you might have been the first, but there's definitely been a push towards diversification of the protein served at the turkey dinner.

5:12Not my table. We're loyalists. We're traditional. You know what else is really big? We're going to turkey. You know what else is big? Somebody brought a lasagna. Somebody brought a lasagna. And let me tell you something. You know what people like? Lasagna. They like lasagna. People like, you get steak, you get lasagna, and you know what you're starting to get? You're starting to get like an Italian steakhouse. Yes. And people like it, you know? Little by little, the turkeys that have less place. Let's play at the table. I got to be honest with you. You know how I feel, Jimmy. I feel like the turkey is just your weight.

5:40You're killing a lot of turkeys, and they don't need to be. All right. Let the turkeys live. But before we jump into it. Yeah, Dana. Yes, Dana. Save the turkey. Save the turkey. Eat a cake, right? Eat a gluten-free cake. Eat a pie. Eat a pie. Eat a pie. Save a turkey. Eat a pie. That could be the new Dana Pollack's tagline, the new book. The new book will be not bake it gluten-free. It's going to be save a turkey, eat a pie. Make a pie. I think it's macaroons go with everything. That'll be book three. Macaroons go with everything. Well, let me just tell you something, Jimmy. You know what you can't get on Amazon Business?

6:15You can't get a turkey. I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think so. But you can. You can get everything else you need to run your business. Do you know that, Jimmy? I learned that. Everything you need, I learned it from you. Me? Yes. I got to tell you. So listen, if you've got a small business, a large business, an enterprise, If you've got hundreds of units, hundreds of thousands of units, you should be going to business.amazon.com. It gives you an entire software platform to streamline all of your procurement for everything you need to run your business. Jimmy, I'm talking toilet paper.

6:50I'm talking cleaning supplies. I'm talking like hand soap. What else do you need, Jimmy? Things that every business needs. Office supplies. Office supplies. Thank you, Dana. Dana. Dana. What else, Dana? What else do we say? What else do we say? Let's see. What else do we go? Yeah. Water bottles. Water. Yeah. Everything you need. Whatever you need. Yes, exactly. And you know what? The bean counters in your office will love it. They will love that you were buying from Amazon Business. You know why, Jimmy? Why is that? Because you're saving money. Saving money. You're saving money and you're making it easier.

7:21So check out business.amazon.com and tell them Shatsy sent you. You put in Dana's Bakery in the code and you get 20 % off. By the way, I'm following Dana's Bakery. 342 ,000 followers right now on Instagram, Jimmy. As of right now, after this podcast, it goes down to$250 ,000. Well, actually, today we have someone, we have our guest, our friend, Dana, who turned French macaroons into an American obsession. Built one of the first direct-to-consumer bakeries in the country. Has become a powerhouse influencer. And you commented on her Instagram feed, add TikTok, almost half a million followers. Dana public founder and CEO Dana's bakery the creative force behind those vibrant nostalgic totally Instagrammable treats that have redefined what macaroons can be yeah I always got confused by macaroons why is that because like I always had macaroons like my grandma always had them at like right Passover I think yeah is that the Dana is that the same thing is that is the macaroon from Passover the same because the French so those are like the little yeah right so if I had a dollar for every time someone asks me this, right?

8:31We'd be Oprah rich. Also, you know, I say macaroon, not macaroon because I'm from New Jersey. I'm not French. So there is a difference, right? The coconut macaroon that we have at Passover, hopefully dipped in chocolate. And sometimes they dip a little chocolate to try and make it a little better. Really the only way. Those are coconut macarons spelled with two O's. The French macaroon, which is what put Dana's Bakery on the map, is one O, and that is the more Parisian almond flour meringue. So they are two different things. Macaron. Said the same because I don't speak French. What's that retail store that I see in this city that's got them all over?

9:06They make them those nice little boxes that are beautiful. Macaron. There's a couple different places that make them. And, you know, when I started the bakery 13 years ago, they were just now becoming more popular. So now everyone knows what a French macaroon is. But 13 years ago, no one really knew. and the people that were selling them were selling them in the same French flavors. It was a Lauderae or any of those places that are known for macaroons have been making them forever. It's, they all made lavender, rose, pistachio, and I'm a Jersey girl. That is not my thing. I want red velvet and birthday cake and s'mores.

9:41And so that's how the concept of Dana's Bakery was born. And we really were put on the map as knowing the, known as the pioneers of thinking outside the box and coloring outside of the lines and making these desserts that now everyone knows and loves, but in really fun American flavors. So, you know, you kind of have to switch it up a little bit. Do it a little differently. I had to go and look myself. But the first macarons were almond-based cookies in Italy brought to France by Catherine de Medici in the 1500s. And they were single cookies, no filling, no colors. Correct. Now, I did not get that from Jack GPT, Jimmy.

10:21I just happen to know that. Of course. That's knowledge that I know. And then, so they're really, really old. But the modern is from the 1930s with two shells with ganache. That's what we know now, right? And so it took a long time for us to get them. And Dana, you basically brought them here. So let's jump into it, right? So you were a photo editor before you were a baker, right? so we went to parsons school design in 2005 yes and you got all a blur but yes a long time ago long ago 20 years ago 20 years right jimmy 20 years 20 years my math good yeah you know what your math is pretty good it's pretty good right so you go to parsons and you're like i want to be a photographer and your mom got you a great camera she got you the kodak like right you got a nice Kodak camera and you thought with the one with the with the thing and the film you know.

11:19The film. The film. The blogger. You got the 36 exposures you know. The Kodachrome right. And then you got sick of it fast. And you went to the CIA and you started baking a few years later. Tell us what happened there. So I went to ICE not CIA. Close. I meant ICE. I meant ICE. I meant ICE. Close. Close. So I was working as a photo editor at Muscle and Fitness Magazine. which is my last job before I kind of did this whole life career. It was great. I have a lot of fun stories. Yep, I have a lot of fun stories, but it really wasn't my passion. You know, I was like, I've been doing this now for almost a decade.

11:56What am I going to end up doing for the rest of my life? Is this it? And it was an actual moment where I was sitting in my cubicle and I had my last photo shoot, a cover shoot, up on the screen. And it was a man in Speedos. And I was so stressed out. It was like one in the morning. And I was like, am I really going to do this for the rest of my life? And that was it. I decided I need to make a change. And I had always really loved baking and creating. And I thought, how can I turn this into a career and not just a hobby so I can pivot and do something different that actually means something to me?

12:29And it's then when I decided that I was going to switch it up and leave my job and enroll in culinary school at ICE. because I know me if I didn't get formal training and take it seriously, I would probably, you know, I've always been a go-getter for sure, but I didn't want to give myself the opportunity to get comfy on the couch watching TV and, you know, just not follow through with it. I wanted to really get, dive in and get a full formal training and learn everything that I could, soak it up like a sponge so that I could see where it took me. Let me ask you something about Dana. Yeah. I mean, you're taking pictures of guys in Speedos.

13:07How long were you at Muscle Fitness? I was at Muscle Fitness for a couple of years. Before that, I was at Rides Magazine. No, I'm the photo editor. So my father also had no idea what I did. A lot of people don't know what a photo editor does. He knew I did something in photo, but he'd always be like, what do you do again? When he'd explain it to his friends. The photo editor is a producer. We are the ones that, you know, plan all the photo shoots, book the locations, book the models, edit all the photos. So this really has nothing to do with photography. Yeah, lay out all of the images, Photoshop, send them out.

13:43You're like a coordinator, so you are a producer. So when you were at Muscle Fitness, were you ever thinking about, you know what, I could do this, I just don't like Muscle Fitness? Like if I was coordinating with something else, you know what I mean? Well, I did. If I were at Vanity Fair or Vogue, would you be like, oh, I could totally do it there, it'd be cool. I had worked at a lot of magazines before Muscle and Fitness, and I was at Brides and Quick and Simple and a bunch of places and fashion, food. I did it all. You know, editorial is very transient. And when I was leaving, a lot of the magazines were folding and they were all going digital.

14:17So it was a very weird time in publishing. That makes sense. And it was kind of, you know, my sign to take the leap. So you go to ICE. You take a couple of classes. They teach you how to bake a little bit. You probably baked a little bit before, you know, maybe you did some, you know, I don't know. You did like tall house cookies, Duncan Hines, you know, right. And they were delicious, right. I was a year long program. It was a full on culinary training. So I didn't just do the whole circuit. I only focused on baking and pastry arts. And I did that for a year. So you do eight months of training and then you do like a nine months of training and then a three month externship.

14:59And when I was in culinary school, I also found someone to hire me as a pastry chef so I could get the experience in the restaurants. So I worked for Catch EMM Group. So they do Catch, you know, Catch, the restaurants. But now all over yet. But you were living in New Jersey still, but you went to Catch. No, I was in the city. I lived in the city. Oh, you moved to the city. You left that out because you talked about Jersey so big. And Jimmy don't like New Jersey. No, by the way, several times, Dana proudly referred to herself as a Jersey guy. Yes. I grew up in Jersey, but I left Jersey when I graduated high school.

15:31We're in New Jersey. Yeah, so I grew up in Franklin Lakes. And the reason why the bakery was based there. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. My backyard. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So the reason why, and I know that that's confusing, my bakery was in New Jersey because my mom helped me set up my LLC and helped me, you know, I never went to business school. And the whole thing was very daunting. She found me a test kitchen. And she lives in Jersey because that's where I'm from. So I've been in the city since, you know, I basically graduated high school. Had you convinced Catch? I mean, that was like it was the hottest restaurant going.

16:08Yeah. And how did you convince them to hire you as a pastry chef when you really had absolutely no experience doing this? Yeah. So I started at Lexington Brass. It was one of their hotels. It was a restaurant in one of the hotels in Midtown. And I went in for an interview and Gustavo Sack was the head pastry chef there. And he really took a liking to me and he ended up really being a mentor and he took me under his wing. So I would be at culinary school from 8 a.m. till about 3 p.m. And then from four to one in the morning, I would go to my job and I would get real experience of working in the kitchens and doing service.

16:47And I would do that six to seven days a week. You know, Chuliba, burning the candle at both ends. I wanted to get it all in. Right, but then you start the bakery in 2012. Yeah, I started it before I finished culinary school. What's the plan? I'm like, I'm going to go to a bakery. I'm going to open a bakery. I'm going to start baking. And then what? Where are you selling this stuff? So the bakery, the reason why everything was Jersey-based is because I decided the concept of the bakery. I saw that French macaroons were becoming very popular. No one was doing them in the flavors that interested me.

17:23So I saw something was missing in the market. And my mother found me a test kitchen in New Jersey. So I would drive from the city to New Jersey. And I, because of my background in photo, was able to take photos of all the things that we were making. And because of social media, I was able to promote it and people would find out about it. So even if they didn't know what a macaroon was, they knew the flavor profile. You know, they were like, well, I don't understand what this cookie is, but I love red velvet. So I'll give it a try. and because of social media then the word started to spread and people wanted to know how I could I could ship it to them right so you know I I started I started developing that concept yeah exactly while I was in culinary school um and everyone thought I was a little nuts because they were like what do you mean you're going to be online only and you're only going to sell one thing.

18:12And at the time, no one was exclusive CPG. No one was exclusive, you know, direct to consumer from the website. I did it out of necessity because I didn't have any investors or partners at the time. And I didn't have the funding for brick and mortar. But now that that's my claim to fame, it's, you know, it's just a happy accident, but a happy one. And I'm glad that it happened because when COVID hit and everyone was trying to figure out how to ship, I had already been doing it for almost a decade. So, yeah, I started everything online and it all started out of that test kitchen in New Jersey. That's absolutely brilliant.

18:47So now let's fast forward. So you start this bakery and you put, and you, and you, you just put online like Dana's bakery. I sell macrons. And who was your first order? Like was outside of your mom, like who was your first order so I spent I had a friend design my website and because of my background in photo that degree did not go to waste which is a beautiful thing I was able to photograph all of my stuff like a sexy still life instead of a bottle of perfume and I think people really gravitated towards it because they weren't used to seeing food in that way and you think about food and you think about dessert you think about Martha Stewart and I love her don't get me wrong Martha and Snoop are like my bucket list of people to hang out with before you know like dead or alive like who's the one person you would want to hang out with my combo would be Martha and Snoop they're like one of our questions you just my one a just sorry um I'll dive into it more later but um yeah but um I started online and then because of the photos people you know wanted to buy them so everything happened online and I would do local New York City delivery website or how did you get attraction.

19:57I had a, I had a website. I had a friend build out a Shopify website and I would promote it. Combine that with some social media. Yeah. And then I would hand deliver them. Oh my God, this looks so good. And then you just, you had like boxes and just shipped them. People are like, Oh my God, this is delicious. Figure it out. When there's a will, there's a way, you know, when you are, when you were selling something online, it's, there's a perfect recipe because normally if you're selling food you sell with people's noses you know you walk by you smell it you look you smell you buy when you're selling online you have to sell and people are buying with their eyes so it has to be beautiful the photos have to look great it has to entice someone user experience has to be easy from when they're shopping to check out they have to like the product when they get it right because that could all be great but when you get it and it tastes like they're not going to come back or recommend you to friends so it's really the trifecta of perfecting online sales is that has to look good, has to taste good, and the experience has to be spot on.

20:59So that's, you know, you spend time figuring that out. A lot of trial and error. You're very smart, Dana Pollack. I got to tell you, you're very smart. Let's just go through. Listen how smart Dana is to all you entrepreneurs out there. Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year, emerging business category in 17. So this is five years after you started selling online, you become the entrepreneur of the year you want a Stevie award I don't know what that is but it's an award and it's great it's women in business 2018 and I gotta tell you my son's name is Stevie so it's a very impressive award right thank you very much the award Inc 5000 fastest growing private companies in America 2018 and 2019 and you went on to QVC and started selling all your stuff on qvc right i sure did now you've got i said 300 and like 40 000 instagram followers at dana's bakery by the way it's dana pollack i don't know why you have that one instagram followers that it's dana pollack why is that that's me so so you have dana's bakery and it's dana pollack so you got two yeah that's my personal that's there's a lot of fun stuff on there i do a lot of cooking on there there's a lot of kids a lot of family a lot of you know day in the life of I just overshare what I do all day.

22:19And, you know, I got to follow that, too. And then at TikTok, you got also like 300 and something thousand followers with millions like at Dana's Bakery. So now you've got that. You got two cookbooks. This is this is the newest cookbook. Correct. Right. This one just came out in October. Bake it gluten free. One hundred recipes of classic treats. You know, no in our office is gluten free. Yeah. So I got to tell you, I look through. I mean, it looks absolutely unbelievable. Really unbelievable. I have a fun secret for you. It's not really a secret anymore, but I'm not gluten-free. So people are always so confused why Dana's Bakery is gluten-free and why I came out with a gluten-free cookbook.

22:58Tell us, Dana. And I'd be happy to. So when I came out with Dana's Bakery, macaroons by nature are gluten-free because they're made with almond flour and meringue. So as I started selling to people, I saw that people were not just excited, but elated. And they were relieved that they could find something that actually tasted good, didn't taste like granola, and they could feel like they could indulge something for them or their kids. And I was like, you know what? It's so easy to just make alterations and keep this gluten free. So that's what we're going to do. So while we expanded our product line, I just made sure to make sure that everything was gluten free.

23:37So we developed our own gluten-free flour when we came out with cookies and the black and white cookies and all that stuff. So I have over a decade of experience baking gluten-free. And because I'm not gluten-free, I know what the good stuff tastes like. So I can develop recipes that actually taste as good as the original, if not better. You know, most people, when they bake because of diet, they do it out of necessity, right? They can't eat gluten, so they bake gluten-free. but they don't know what a babka tastes like or a Milano cookie tastes like or what a good carrot cake tastes like of recipes that don't taste like ****.

24:09Did you say almond flour for everything? No. Is that the secret? No. So almond flour is only used for French macaroons. Okay. I are. I was going to say that you get all the nut allergy people are probably up in their arms. You're like, why is Dana favoring gluten-free people and killing all the nut allergy people out there? Yeah, no, we're pretty nut-free friendly in this book. most gluten-free flours are a mix of potato and rice flour and you can buy it you can buy measure for measure or cup for cup they sell a lot of gluten-free flours that are just a replacement and then we use a lot of phacillium husk to replace gluten and bread baking there's a whole bread chapter in this cookbook which is very unique it has croissants sourdough bagels and that's not something that you see often I'm sorry croissants that's not something that you see often with gluten-free baking.

25:03So we use facilium husk because that kind of mimics the elasticity of gluten. And it also is fiber. So it's a bonus. I want to ask you, Dana, about partnerships. You're doing some really interesting collaborations and self-interest. You did an amazing one. I mean, I don't know if there was anything better than the one you did with Big Daddies, but we can talk about that to the extent you're up for it. But one thing that stands out is just how you collaborate, not just with folks like Big Daddy's Diner, our restaurant, but Infinity, Schmitt Brothers Knives. You even have a custom knife set. We talked about you've been on QVC.

25:40So it seems like you've built an ecosystem that you're not just selling baked goods, you're actually creating cultural moments and partnerships. How do you think about brand collaboration and what makes a good partnership for Dana's Bakery? Yeah, so that's where, you know, the It's Dana Pollack account, that's why that's there. So I have a lot of interest, not just bakery and everything used to be under Dana's Bakery. But as I've grown and I've expanded and I've become an author and I'm doing other things, you know, it's important to kind of have that separation because some people want bakery for bakery.

26:14But people really love a founder and they love to know a person behind the brand, not just the brand. So because I love to do lots of things, I love to cook. I cook a lot of steak. I was going to say, you should have invited me to your Thanksgiving. I would have represented and brought some good stuff next year. We were at Dick's Hills by the way, not too far. Save the turkey. I won't bring a turkey. I will bring some steak. But there's, you know, a lot of different facets to what I like and what I do. And I think that that's what makes it organic. And people want organic. They want to know that if I'm representing something or I'm partnering with something, it's because I actually genuinely believe in it.

26:55and then it becomes trustworthy and and it naturally filters into my life nothing ever feels forced because I'll never work with a brand that isn't something that I would actually get behind so sometimes the partnerships start where I really like the product and then they'll approach me or I'll approach them or sometimes it's we're introduced other times it's through Instagram I did a partnership with Lisa Frank and it started because I got my nails done and I got them Lisa Frank designed you remember Lisa Frank is be had it's had a huge comeback now but it was like the Trapper Keepers and it was all the neon colors and the stickers and like the 80s.

27:27Do you remember that? Yes, of course. Yeah. So that's back. But I did these crazy Lisa Frank nails and they saw it. And then we ended up doing a partnership for Dana's Bakery, making these really awesome Lisa Frank inspired baked goods. And so there's a lot of organic partnerships that happen that way. And then there's a lot of personal partnerships. Infinity has been a really great partner of mine. it makes sense because I own a business. I'm a mom. I'm doing carpool. I'm always in the car. You know, I needed a mom mobile, but something that was nice enough that I felt like it was luxury, but still functional.

28:05And so there's a lot of things that play into that. And brands want people that are going to represent their product in a good way for the right reasons. And so, you know, things like that, it just works. So people are just coming to you all the time saying hey we should collaborate let's just come up with something yeah I mean all the time I mean let's let's speak it yeah let's let's bring it all the time okay because black and white cookie that's a New York City institution Jimmy that was from the Upper East Side it started lasers bakery look to the cookie, Aline. I mean, it's a Seinfeld episode.

28:47It's like the city. And then Greenberg's still makes a great black and white cookie. How did you make the black and white cookie better? How did you do it? A, it was gluten-free. So even though it's gluten-free, it still tastes good. So it compares with all the others. It's delicious because it's just delicious. But when we came on the market for the black and white... Is that almond flour? Is that how you did that? It's not almond flour. Almond flour is only going to Macaron.

29:14It's my magical flower blend that I can't tell you or I'd have to kill you. Magic flower. Tell me that. Okay. All right. Go ahead. So when we came out with the black and white, you know, I didn't want to do something that everyone else was doing. Like we have a vanilla flavor and it's called the basic because we don't really do things like that. So I made it rainbow. and then we had our collaboration at the restaurant but yeah the cookies are really fun because you know you see the regular black and white cookie and then I wish I had one here but well I'll show you photos but you break it open and you're like hit in the face with this like gorgeous bright vibrant rainbow they're just so pretty and so unique and so different and no one was doing them.

30:02No one does them. I mean, it's just, it's uniquely ours. So that's, you know, what we do. It's not in the book. But if you go online and you Google Dana's Bakery rainbow black and white cookie, it'll show up. You'll see it. And is that your biggest seller? No, our biggest sellers, you know, macaroons will always be our number one. And then we make a lot of really amazing stuffed cookies. What about the Mookie? What about the Mookie? So it's the Mookie. Not the Mookie, I know. People like to say Mookie. Like Mookie Wilson. Well, because I thought it was Mookie Wilson. Right. So it's cookie with an M.

30:38So you don't say cookie, you say cookie. M for macaroon. It's a macaroon baked inside a cookie. So I call it a Mookie because it's a cookie with a macaroon in the middle. It's like a Mookie. It's a Mookie. Yeah. So a Mookie. Mookie death. Are you selling a lot of Mookies? You know, yeah. The funny thing about the Mookie is that we started it to get rid of waste. So whenever you make macaroons, you always have a percentage of macaroons that are chipped or dinged and you can't sell them because they're not picture perfect. So I thought if I can fill it and put it inside a cookie, no one would ever know that there was a little chip in it because it's now I'm making, I'm turning something.

31:18So it's like a munchkin. It's like a munchkin from Dunkin' Donuts. You're turning, you're turning not garbage, but into treasure. You know, you're upgrading it. But then we started selling so many of them. Did they munchkin the hole from the donut, or was that not true? I think that it was. I think it was the idea that they're, yes. But now the same thing, right? They probably make some money now they're just making munchkins. How about a box of the imperfect macaroons? Exactly, like misfits. Well, one that has a little bit of a, well, like misfit fruits. Like misfit macaroons? Yeah, exactly. Misfit macaroons.

31:50Let's talk about this cookbook a little bit, okay? Because it just came out, right? And I guess it's not really breaking news, but I guess we can say it's breaking news, right? Why not? More. Breaking news. Dana Pollack, Bake It Gluten-Free, here on the Hospitality Hangout, the Food Fluencers. Dana, what can you tell us about this cookbook? How many hundreds of thousands of copies have you sold, and where can I buy it? So the cookbook is full of 100 recipes. everything from breads to cakes to cookies to cupcakes ice cream and more and it's not just for people who are gluten-free I'm on a mission to break the stigma that just because it's gluten-free it doesn't taste good so every recipe in here you would love regardless if you eat gluten or not and you can get it wherever books are sold you can get it on my website danisbakery.com you can get it on amazon tarjay wherever they'll ship it you get it next day I love that you said tarjay Okay.

32:51And so this is your second book. Are you seeing, what is like early, early indications? Are you seeing more success in this book? Did you learn something from the first book that makes you want to do a second book? You know, it was very different where my first book was not gluten-free. It was based off of our flavor profile. So the first book, every chapter was a flavor profile. There was a s'mores chapter, a red velvet chapter, and you know, it wasn't gluten-free. and the one complaint that people had was why isn't the book gluten-free because the bakery is gluten-free and I thought because I'm a culinary person that you can make any recipe gluten-free just substitute the flour and make some adjustments but apparently that is not the case so I said okay you know what I'm gonna come back and I'm gonna do it for you guys and I'm gonna do it right and book number two 100 % gluten-free you don't have to take you don't have to do any of the guesswork you could just follow the recipe and people are loving it it's great i'm really proud of this one this one is a labor of love yeah i'm proud of you for doing this second book that means a lot you know let's just talk a little bit about social media we touched on it earlier you have hundreds of thousands of followers how important is is social media and food fluencers because you're posting all this stuff but then you also rely on other food fluencers to kind of take root in what you're doing and push it out and that's how the whole kind of system goes so how important is that to you and your sales like are you doing any advertising are you paying influencers to talk you up or no everything is just organic and it's just the way it feels and it just works?

34:34Yeah, it's just organic, you know, because this is really for the everyday chef. And the good thing about food is that people like food. People like things that taste good. People like to bake because they like to bake or they want to relieve stress. I agree with you, Dana. Food that tastes bad is bad, Jimmy. Not worth eating, right? It's not worth eating. That's why I go bottle of turkey doesn't taste very good. That's why we don't eat it. Right. It's not a hard sell when you're trying to sell something like red velvet cake or chocolate chip cookies. And it's things that people, you know what it is, food is more of an experience, not food.

35:10So I always say like fake sweet memories. Like it's not necessarily about what you're making. It's the fact that you're making it in the kitchen with your mom or you're making it with your friends when you're like had a couple of glasses of wine and you're like watching friends. I mean, there's moments that you're that you're doing this and it's always an experience. And that's what I think makes it special and makes food and baking and just cooking in general stand out from other experiences. And so I don't really think that, of course, it's so nice when, you know, it's organic and you get people who have large followings to, you know, spread the word and sing the praises of the book.

35:47And it's so appreciated. But I also love that people, everyday chefs, everyday home cooks or people that have never baked before will be home with this book and they'll make something. And they'll be so proud of how it came out. And they post a photo. And they say, look what I made. This was so good. I can't believe I made this. And those are the things that make it all worthwhile because it's a special moment. And they use Dana's recipe. And they use my recipe. And this is like maybe that becomes their recipe. And then they make it. And it sits on their shelf even if they don't ever use it. It sits on their shelf and it's like a part of their home for a very long time.

36:25And to me, that is so cool. did you have to make every single thing in this book every single thing and did you take the pictures or did someone else so I for this book I I wrote the book and I was obviously testing while I wrote the recipes making a cookbook is a very long strenuous process you have to come up with the recipes and it's a hundred of them so you know not your editor's not going to like all of them so you might have to rework some of them or swap it out because it doesn't go with the book then you have to get it all approved then you have to shoot it so you have to make it again and then you have to photograph it so there's a lot of steps to making a cookbook so what I did for this cookbook because it is gluten-free I wanted to make sure that the recipes were easy for people to follow not just me because it was my recipe so I made all the recipes some of them I had to make like six to eight times just to get it right because it's not always going to be right on the first shot.

37:21Then when we shot the book, I had a food stylist make it so that she could make my recipes. And I was there with her, but so she could make the recipes and catch anything that I missed. Or if something was confusing. So was some of the food fake? Like would the stylist use fake stuff so it doesn't melt and stuff? It's all real. And I chose to shoot this in my house instead of a studio. So we took my house over for 10 days. It was the middle of Halloween last year. and I had a set of 10 people in my house every day and it was absolute madness. And I actually took behind the scenes and I saved them on the highlights in my It's Dana Pollack account so you can see them.

37:58But there's different shots, like the chocolate cake is my daughter's wallpaper in her bedroom. The apple pie was shot under the counter on the floor in my kitchen. This cake was shot in my laundry room. I'm just going to show you. So there's, this is my laundry room. So there's, you know, we had a prop stylist. says thank you so much we had a prop stylist so you know we created like setups in my house but there's elements of my house in here so it was really fun but um my husband didn't kill me he was such a good sport i mean we really took over the whole entire house you walk down the street yeah on donut day we tried to do a chapter a day on donut day you could smell it outside it was so good yeah it must be unbelievable so it's no easy task making a book so let me is doing this book i mean it's it's a it's a project of love for you is it do you make a lot of money on a book like that or no it's not about the money it's just kind of like my brand or that's a bonus obviously if a book does well and it makes money that's of course a bonus but it's really an accolade in the sense of you wrote a book.

39:07I mean, how many people can say that they wrote a book? And when you write a book, you get new press, and you get to do cooking segments on TV, and you get to do live classes and teach people how to cook things from the book. It's really, you get new partnerships. I mean, it's really a, it's a tool to help grow. Yeah, it's a door opener. It's a tool to help grow your brand and, you know, elevate. I'm trying to get Jimmy to write a book. Yeah, there you go. He writes the newsletter every week. I'm told I write a book almost every week because my emails are so long. I know, but a real book, Jimmy.

39:41I mean, really, Jimmy, if Dana could write a book about baking, I mean, can't you think of something? Dana, a smart person could write a short, concise email or newsletter. A novella. I have to write long ones. That's all. I'm working on it. That's okay, Jimmy. My Mark Twain, a work in progress. We still love you. All right, listen, I've got to take a quick break, Jimmy. Dana, can you stay with us for just a couple more minutes? Sure. I got to take a quick break. We'll be right back with a little this or that. So don't go away. We'll be back with Dana Pollack. Bake it. Gluten free. I think she sold over 100 ,000 copies already.

40:15Don't quote me, but it's been a lot. Since we started recording. Many copies have already been flying up. The last hour. And I'm already looking at Instagram. She had to 450 ,000 followers. I think 150 ,000 people just started following her today. Just listening to this. All right. Be right back, everybody. Hold on. Hey, everybody. I got to tell you. We're going to talk about Built. Built Hospitality. Millions of people use Built every day. That's right, every day to earn awards on housing and in their neighborhood. But now, now it extends to your restaurant. That's where Built Hospitality comes in.

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42:12Yo, we are back with a little this or that with Dana Pollack from Bake It Gluten-Free, Dana's Bakery. Unbelievable story. We're just getting so much information. We're so excited. Here we go. All right, Jimmy, do you know how to play this? I know how to play. Could you tell Dana? Because she don't know how to play. Dana, Chassie's going to give you two choices. And you say which of the two you prefer. That's all. You could say green or blue, and you might say green. This or that. You choose. All right, so thank you for that, Jimmy, because I never know how to explain this game. It's always very confusing.

42:43A little bit of this, a little bit of that. A little bit of this. All right. Morning, brainstorm, or evening nightcap. This or that? Evening nightcap. Starbucks or Dunkin Starbucks what Jimmy's gonna be very upset sweet or savory miss Baker what do you think Instagram or tick-tock Instagram is it gluten or gluten free gluten free heavy metal or pop music gotta be something oh I'm a huge metal head oh I knew that'd be something about that you don't you don't find too many yeah too many girls that are big metal heads these days do you jimmy i guess it depends where you're looking i'm looking here right now jersey water yeah cook dinner or do you go out for dinner dana cook dinner chef dana is it a cocktail or a mocktail for dana after a hard day's work oh you know it used to be a cocktail but lately i've been really into the mocktails yeah really i know that's not a this or that but i i think that i've converted i'm gonna say mocktail and that's new for me how'd you do this is one of the worst performances I've ever had.

43:52You and Dana have nothing in common. Well, I mean, look, I keep betting on Duncan only because I like how wrong I am every single time. Everyone likes Duncan. And the sweet was going to be obvious for Dana. And the gluten-free was obvious. But I didn't think. I thought pop music was going to win. I thought the cocktail was going to win. I was confused by the morning brainstorm and the evening nightcap because the evening nightcap sounds like actually a cocktail, not a brainstorming session. is that not like I got together so I'll just say this Dana and I we didn't jive on this one that's okay Dana's her own person I'm my own I love you I like to try to keep score and guess what how bad you do I bet about 50 % that's that's a low mark for me I didn't know that this was being I didn't know that that you were like betting against it that was interesting I'm betting like I'm trying to see how well I know you like yeah like like she was so happy with tiktok so excited about the tiktok marketplace and selling on TikTok.

44:47But you asked her Instagram or TikTok. I was like, oh, Instagram. Well, I'm just on it the most. My engagement on TikTok and the people and all of the messages is there. I get it. I didn't score that well. Dana, I'm going to leave you with Mr. Schatzberg to finish up the podcast. I am super excited that we had you on the show. And I can't wait to keep following what Dana Baker is up to. I am going to wrap this up. If you'd like to learn more about Dana Pollack and everything going on at Dana's Bakery, www.danasbakery.com. Go check it out. She's crushing it. If you want to follow her on social media, it's at danasbakery.com.

45:30And also, it's into Dana? At It's Dana Pollack. Oh, at It's Dana Pollack. And you can see everything. You want to see how good looking she is? check it out. You want to see how not good looking Jimmy and I are? You can check us out on the podcast. You can go to YouTube at hospitalityhangout.com and if you want to read about us, read about the hospitality headline every week, www.hospitalityheadline.com Jimmy writes. I gotta tell you, he's gonna write a book. I'm gonna make him write a book. I gotta tell you, this is unbelievable. It's a great show. Dana, anything to add? Anything going on? What's the Christmas special that we should buy?

46:08Oh man, everything. Buy it all. I'm ready for you. Just buy it all. It's great. And great gifting, right? Great gifting? Great gifting, yes. Great gifting. Check it out. Listen, cheers, everybody.