White Castle: The Burger People Plan Road Trips Around

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1:24They're a regular. Built Hospitality is available now for restaurant groups everywhere. Learn more at BuiltDining.com backslash hangout. That's BuiltDining.com backslash hangout. And check out what Built Hospitality is going to do for you and your restaurant. You guys really are an iconic part of pop culture since 1921. We were the first fast food. Right, I mean, I know a lot of people, it goes to McDonald's, but that's not true. They came down the road quite a ways. They knocked you guys off. We got to a billion slider slope before they got to a billion. Yeah, exactly. You were to a billion way before.

2:00They really get a million when you were to a billion. Yeah. Like, right? Right, right, right. Yeah, exactly.

2:07It's the Hospitality Hangout. I'm Shatzy, the restaurant guy. I'm here with my partner, Jimmy the Finance Guy. And Jimmy, we got an incredible show here today in Atlanta. As you like to say, don't you say Hotlanta? I'm told that is no longer in vogue, so I will never say that again. Oh, me neither. Unless it becomes trendy and hot, and then I might embrace it. I'm not saying it. I love when you bring your Vegas voice to no matter where you are. We've got a good guest today, Jimmy. I am Jimmy Frisley. I am the finance guy, and we are very excited to be down here at QSR Evolution. Our next guest has been the ultimate craver.

2:44And yes, that pun is intended because for nearly three decades, since joining White Castle, since joining the White Castle home office, all the way back in 1988. And yes, Shatsy and I are of an age where we remember 1988 very, very well. Yeah, no, those were good. 88 was a good year, Jimmy. 1998. That's what I said. Yes. Jamie started on the agency side. Wait, 88 or 98? 98. I thought you said 88. I can affirm it. What did he say? It was 98. Yeah. Jamie's first contribution As long as we got a confirmation We got a confirmation? We're good We landed in the right place He's been the face of White Castle since Harold and Kumar go to White Castle Undercover Boss Impractical Jokers and made more national TV appearances that I believe he can count although we'll find that out Let's do another Harold and Kumar Are we talking about that today?

3:36We will, we can I don't know if that's part of the discussion And this year And this year, Jamie was promoted to chief marketing officer of one of the most iconic brands in QSR history, fast food history. Please welcome to the show, CMO of White Castle, Mr. Jamie Richardson. Jamie Richardson. Thanks for being here. I love that hat. Thank you for joining. You know, Jim, we got a lot of questions for you. I hope I have a lot of answers. You have the answers. I know you do because you've been there since 1998. 98. It's a different century, my friend. It's a different century. Before we get into it, we like to find out how do you become the chief marketing officer of one of the most iconic brands in America?

4:21If I dare say, the world, Jimmy. The world. May I say that? You can say that because it's true. It is true. It is true. So you graduate from Siena Heights University, got an MBA from Ohio Dominican, started cutting his teeth at J. Walter Thompson. If anybody from the advertising world doesn't know. That was like the big firm. They're probably gobbled up by somebody today. They probably have like WPP or one of those other big names. They were the big dogs. Worked at Domino's account. And you know what he realized when he was on the Domino's account, Jimmy? He hated working in advertising. He loved restaurants.

4:58That's what he learned. And that's when he told his mom that he would be leaving this fantastic job. By the way, his mother was thrilled. An advertising executive. The true madman. Right? But no, he goes and starts working the White Castle side at the advertising agency, continuing his path. Am I right so far? So far, so good. Continuing his path to where he eventually cut through a lot of the stuff. He starts working at White Castle, right? That's true. And now he works there now, right? Yeah. And you are the chief marketing officer of White Castle. Can we confirm that? That is confirmed, my friend.

5:34All right, there we go. It seems a little interrogative nature of your question. Well, now I want to make sure that, I mean, since 1921, White Castle's got the most delicious burger. Jamie, did I get anything right? It's a thoughtful and thorough intro. Much appreciated. Yeah, right? Fantastic. All right, Jimmy, now I gave the intro. Now we can find out that's what he had to do to become the CMO. Now let's talk to him about what the hell a CMO does over there, White Castle. Let's talk. J. Walter Thompson, you started on the advertising side. You know, you've worked through marketing, communication, government relations.

6:04What did all those years, you know, kind of leading up to your role as the chief marketing officer, talk to us about that journey because that's not the typical journey, at least that we see, for CMOs of really iconic brands, but share a little bit about that. Well, first let me thank you guys because this show is awesome. You're doing a public service by sharing these stories around this great land of ours. It is a public service. That's right. By the way, donations, Jimmy, the hotline is open right now. The hotline is open right now on the hospitality hangout. Yeah, but for me, the journey to the epicenter of all cravings started with that ad agency opportunity and being able to be on the business when we came up with the line, What You Crave.

6:45And understand there's something different. I mean, back in the day, we actually hired a trained psychologist to interview customers to understand what it was about White Castle that separated us from the rest of the pack. And that led to the It's What You Crave campaign. and from there it's just been a love affair every bit of the way. Can I share a personal anecdote or story? Could get you in the Hall of Fame. One of my early relationships with White Castle I was a junior guy on a trading desk and the senior guys would I don't want to call it hazing We're on the clock Jimmy and so they would come up with games and they might say I'm going to bet my junior guy my guy could figure out a lunch order, could figure out to get us lunch and you have 30 minutes or less.

7:32And some other despot said, well, my guy is going to wow. And they wager on it and they'd send us on a mission and they're going to vote on who was the most impressive, go out, figure out the lunch and get it done within 30 minutes or less. And I took my myself from my midtown, then midtown office and raced up to White Castle up on in the nineties on First Avenue in Manhattan. Okay. Castle number 58. Number 58. Got sacks. Yeah, the old number of 5 '8". Got sacks of burgers and raced back. You know, I could have got that story out in literally 30 seconds. And I will just say, again, I won the competition over another guy, but I always had an appreciation that I knew that a bag of White Castles would be a winning move on my part.

8:20So my love affair with White Castle began, by the way, not on or about, It was just before 2000 to honor about your journey with the company. There you go. I'm sure a year or two later, that's why we came up with a Crave case. To make that journey a Crave case. I'm impressed. What gets me most impressed about that story, Jimmy, it's that you knew it was store number 58. That was impressive, by the way. I mean, how many stores do you guys have? 336. Yeah, so I mean, how did you know it was 58? Like, how do you know that? It's a familiar castle. It is. Is that a big one? It's a familiar castle. It's a familiar castle.

8:51They came up with the Crave. Yeah, we probably have that security footage somewhere. You know, we can find that for you. I mean, as we talk about these things, I think everybody has a White Castle story, certainly from our area. You know, in the Northeast, certainly the New York, New Jersey area, White Castle has been iconic. I know you didn't start there, but you certainly have a big presence there. Everyone's got a story. You guys really are an iconic part of pop culture. And, I mean, since 1921, I mean, opening, which is, I don't know, You got to be one of the oldest restaurants. We were the first fast food.

9:27Right. I mean, I know a lot of people, it goes to McDonald's, but that's not true. They came out. It's like quite a way. They knocked you guys off. We got to a billion slider slow before they got to a billion. Yeah, exactly. You were a billion way before. They really get a million when you were a billion. Yeah. Like, right. Right, right, right. Yeah, exactly. So much so that, I mean, Harold and Kumar, I mean, became, I mean, that was built on that whole idea that, right, you know, of White Castle and the stoners. I mean, so it was so iconic. I mean, so you as a chief marketing officer, what do you have to do to take this?

9:59You get control of this iconic brand, and your job is just don't f*** it up. So how do you not f*** it up? Well, I'd say, first of all, it's not about control. It's about letting the crave be what it is. Okay. And it's about listening intently to what customers are telling us today. You have to stay relevant, and you have to stay plugged in, because it's fun to celebrate the past. Yeah. But if you fall in love with it, you're going to lose your way. You're going to lose, right. You're going to lose your way. So you got to stay in touch with what's happening. I had control of it. That's not true.

10:27Right. It's a team of people listening every day to figure out what's next. I am honored to be part of it all, man. I'm a craveologist. Yeah. I love that. I love all that. I get to be part of something that means something to people. I like what Jamie said about you can't control the crave. And it makes me think about expressions about love and heart. Heart wants what it wants. Yeah. Heart love what you love. You can't control the crave. Yeah. No. You know, you got to stay current and let the crave get deep. Jamie, weren't we at the, I think we were at the, you know, there's not a lot of great Jet stories out there.

10:59We've got one. Jamie, where are you from? Michigan. Okay, so are you just like, are you a Wolverine or are you like a Detroit? No, I'm a Spartan and a Lions, Tigers, Red Wings. Okay, Lions, Spartan. Okay, got it. So I am a Jet fan. Please don't make any fun, okay? There are some. Not to your face, we won't. Yeah, there are some moments of greatness. And one of the moments of greatness for us was the Jets went to play the AFC Championship game in Indianapolis. Right, right. And we were there. Jimmy, you were there, right? Yep. And we were all there with other Jets fans. Get ready for the similarity of the story I just told earlier.

11:35Yeah, but mine's much more fun because it's the Jets. We're at AFC Championship. Mark Sanchez. It's like this is our time. We're very close. I mean, this was amazing. The night before, everyone was partying. We're all excited. I guess that's Saturday night, right? And where do we all go? Where do we send a road trip? Oh, who did we send? Who did you send to go get? We sent you. And I said, who went Jimmy? I was still the junior guy. We had a suite in the hotel room. I was an experienced guy. I made the run. And we were drinking and partying pretty good. And Jimmy went out with a White Castle run, and it was not far from the hotel and the stadium.

12:09And that's just another example of it. It wasn't any run. It was like we knew that White Castle was there. When we drove in, I'm like, oh, there's a White Castle. I kid you not, that's castle number 36 in Indy, right by the stadium. Right by the stadium. That's the one. I made the slide. Happy birthday. I made the slide. And the general manager there is named Teresa. She's awesome. Teresa, I got to tell you, I don't know if you were there when we were there, but there's a happy birthday like the marquee from the theater, at least when I was there. I was, Jamie, I was this close to getting married at White Castle.

12:39Should have done it. And by this close, I mean I suggested it. About a Valerio. I suggested it, and my wife said, no. I said, okay. But I was that close. You are. You are. It could have went either way. Got the anniversary coming up. The Azubal renewals. Yeah. We got you covered. So, listen. So, you did the Harold and Kumar, right? But you guys also are, like, undercover boss. Right. Impractical jokers. Yeah. I was always a big fan of Impractical jokers. I can still watch it any time. You know, it's always very funny. Anything with an undercover boss? Like, who was involved in that? You know, here's the thing we've learned.

13:11Yeah. call people back and uh you stumble into some great stuff sometimes they're duds but uh so who called what happened uh this we got this brit who called her her name was stephanie and we thought it was an april fool's day prank oh right because she's saying you know oh you know it's a great show and you go undercover it's like yeah right right and then but turns out it was real and so we were the first business after the pilot to say yes really and so yeah and then it was uh cousin dave uh who was our fourth generation manufacturing lead who was the undercover boss is that right Yeah, Bill Ingram, our CEO at the time, everybody knew him.

13:43His picture was up in every castle. It was impossible. And they didn't want to do funny noses or anything like that. Right, right, right. I'll tell you what. We learned more in filming that over the nine weeks that we filmed than we would have in 18 years of research. So it's real. It's real. Yeah. I mean, there are absolutely moments. A little survivor-esque in it. Yeah, absolutely. And there's people that Dave doesn't know who he's going to meet. And it was an amazing experience. So if you ever watched that episode, don't ask him about the baby. What episode is it? What episode? What season?

14:09Do we know? I mean, you know the store numbers. Season one. Episode two. We were the second one filmed. It was the fourth to air. All right, there we go. Yeah. Jimmy, let's talk about the iconic. We talked about the iconic brand, but 1921. Well, I want to talk about. What are you? We'll talk about what I want to talk about. We're staying with you. We're staying right here. Don't talk about what you want to talk about. 1921. 1921, the brand is over 100 years old, and it is still, I would say, uniquely a family-owned business. No, it is still family-owned. Yeah, it's still family-owned. I said uniquely a family-owned business in that the trend is so much either go public, either embrace private equity, be acquired by a conglomerate.

14:47Yes. Talk about being a family-owned business and things that maybe White Castle and you specifically can do in your role because you're a family-owned business. Does that provide you with any advantages in letting you guys, not just your role, but as a company, what advantages does it bring to White Castle? It brings us huge advantages. We can take the long view. We can – the danger is getting complacent. So you can't get complacent, but when we push ourselves, we do amazing things because, candidly, no offense to our publicly traded friends and colleagues, we don't have to worry about what an analyst is going to say next week.

15:23Right. That might be uninformed. So we can invest in our people. We've been certified as a great place to work. For the sixth year in a row. Get this, guys. The average time a White Castle general manager has been with White Castle. Wait, wait. Let me guess. Go ahead. Sealed envelope. 17 years. Good guess. Got a guess? I'm going to go 14 years. 21. Boom. Okay, all right. So who wins Price is Right rules in effect. Thank you. Thank you. Showcase Showdown winner right here. That's right. That says a lot because, I mean, one of restaurants big challenges that everyone talks about, certainly on the top 10 list of restaurant operators in different order, but it's, it's, it's turnover, right?

16:05I mean, it's tough. So you must be doing something right. And it's treating people right and giving people the chance to make a difference. People make the journey. There's epic pilgrimages that happen every day. Yeah. And there's people who are with us every day for lunch. A lot of the folks, all of them, a lot of those folks, did they start out at the counter? Absolutely. So we have seven regional directors. Each is responsible for a whole market. Every single one of those individuals started at the age of 15 behind the counter at a white castle. You probably had some guys like 13 and 12, right?

16:35Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just kidding. Yeah, yeah. You know. Yeah, we didn't pay them. But it's not on the cameras or in the videos either. We edit that right out. No, I think it really is unbelievable. It's an iconic brand. Everyone knows. I can't wait to get one of these shirts. I mean, when I think about, like, hamburgers and hamburgers, I mean, they just never have gone out of vogue in this country. I mean, everyone loves burgers. But then there was this time that sliders became the thing. I mean, you went to weddings and bar mitzvahs. It was sliders. You guys invented the slider. Just like you sold more than a billion burgers before anyone else, you invented the slider.

17:12Like, that was it. Yeah, in the beginning. Right? The base of our craving physics. And I got to tell you, it's not just your iconic brand. You have such IP that I don't know that you get. We got to talk about this more because the whole, I know even the CPG part, how long have you been selling those sliders in the frozen section? Almost 40 years. So we've got a 40-year birthday coming up for that next year. That's got to be one of the oldest CP, like we're a restaurant. We were the first. Now it's like everyone's doing that. And I got to tell you something, Jimmy, back me up on this. Okay. You get, they have the Crave Case, right?

17:49Is that called the Crave Case? Is that in the freezer section too or no? Is that the Crave Case? No, that's not in the freezer section. It's the freezer section. It's a 16 count there. So you go get one of these, right? You throw these bad boys into a microwave for, I don't know what the cooking instructions are, like 30 seconds, whatever it is. Yeah, yeah. It comes out. I'm telling you, you close your eyes, you're in White Castle. All you have to do is add a pickle because the pickle's overheating the microwave. Then you got as close to the drive-thru as you can. I mean, because it's got the onion.

18:19I like that. It's got the whole thing. We make them the same way. The pickle will be a little chilled. And guess what? You'll appreciate this as the finance guy. We didn't license that. We own and operate our own plants that make all the sliders. Oh, you make? So really? Hold on. Hold on. Pretend this is my mic. Yeah. They didn't. You guys are like vertical? They still own it. Yeah. We still own it. We own our own. Now, we're always eager for a new name. Okay. I've been arguing for a new name. Jimmy's a good name. The meat plants. But I'm calling them the slider providers. Yeah, slider providers has much more on brand.

18:46And then we have our own bakeries. Every bun you enjoy from White Castle, we baked ourselves. And then we own the frozen food plants, too. All right, so let me ask you something. So I just heard something about buns. I just read, I think, yesterday. I mean, it's a competitor, but, I mean, In-N-Out Burger. Nice people. Do a great job. They just announced that they tweaked some of the recipes. and they change the ketchup will no longer have high fructose corn syrup, sugar. The salt will no longer have iodine. It'll be sea salt. And the buns were made with sesame flour. They took it out. When I read that, I thought they sounded like pretty good changes to me.

19:28I didn't, you know. Yeah. And on social media, people are just going, I mean, because people are just shitting all over. I tell you, the bun just fell apart. It just fell apart. I'm like, really? You're telling me that they took the sesame flower out and they didn't test it. And they were like, oh, it all falls apart. Don't worry about it. There's no one will know. Am I right? Shatsy, Shatsy, I'm going to let Jamie answer. But I get to channel my daughter's favorite artist, Taylor Swift. Haters going to hate. No, but I mean, it's just funny to me because it was like, you really notice? So you were just talking about making your own buns.

20:02Like, I don't know if they make their own buns. Maybe they don't, but it doesn't matter. But, like, they made a change like that. Do you guys make changes like that? And how does the marketing team now handle that? The blessing of being a beloved brand is people care. Right. And what we found is when you're transparent, people understand. Right. So we had an impossible slider on the menu. Okay. We took it off because, candidly, it took too long to prepare. Right. We didn't sell enough of them. That was a good idea that just went south, right? It went great for a while. It was, yeah. If you don't try, you never learn.

20:35I try. And so now we're with Dr. Prager's, and that's been fantastic. But I remember going somewhere and trying my first one. I was very excited. There was a time that everyone, you tried one, right? I feel like everyone tried one. Then you were kind of like, and I guess then the news came out, it wasn't actually healthy, or actually even healthier for you, even healthier. 100 % beef, steam grilled on a bed of onions, served on a bakery restaurant. The fake blood got me. They're like, oh, it's beet juice. I'm like, hmm. You know, anyway. But from a marketing standpoint, you know, how do you tackle something like that when, I mean, those are good changes you would think yeah but or i think transparency you just get up there and you share why and share the why don't don't hide from it and let people know why you're doing it by the way just get that taste challenge i was reading one of them somebody said taking iodine it was iodized uh salt it's taking iodine out of salt it's terrible you need iodine it's a terrible idea i was like oh it fights the goiter anyway i thought it was funny but you're talking about buns, but I just thought about changes like that.

21:33All right. I want to, you guys, in addition to being an iconic brand, you're also one of the go-to when it comes to off-premise dining. So, takeout and delivery, you know, it has become Packaging, Jimmy. It has become such a juggernaut, and that dovetails into packaging because, you know, the brand experience today isn't what, you know, it used to be because, I mean, the packaging is the first thing you see. Where's my white castle box? And the last thing the last thing you have before you take that first craveable bite. So, you know, and I think guests and consumers have higher and higher expectations around the packaging being part of the experience.

22:12Oh, yeah, and by the way, and we want to think about sustainability. So talk about what does packaging mean to White Castle? How has that relationship, you know, evolved and been? And like the crave case and supply caddy, share some stories about that if you could. You know, to us it's around portability and that craveability quotient that comes with it. So form follows function, but really, truly, the fact that our food is small and shareable is the heart of that. So we came out with the 10 sack. We created carryout because it didn't exist before 1928 when we decided to start putting them in sacks.

22:45And so along the way, the best ideas have come from team members. So the Crave case, like the Nobel Prize, two team members at once sent it into the suggestion box. What if we made, and you guys will love this, what if we made a pizza box that held 30 sliders? So we did it. And how long ago was that? 2001. We got out there. We tested it. One small problem. Pizza box didn't fit through the drive-thru window. Son of a bitch. Had to recalibrate. Recalibrate. Came back with a crave case. All we did was add a handle, leather faux stitch, and packaging's essential. And now more than ever, delivery's bigger than it's ever been.

23:17Right. You want stuff to show up with the best absolute quality that you can provide. And people are looking for experience that's real versus, you know, virtual or singular. Yep. And there's nothing like sharing that as packaging is part of the way that it's presented and brings it home. It's branding. It's part of branding. I mean, when that bag, when you see the bag walking on the street or the box, whatever it is, it's branding. We moved away from the brown sack and back to the white sack. Yeah. And the team members love it. They're proud of it. It's who we are. We're White Castle, not Beige Castle.

23:49I agree. Whose idea was the Beige Castle? Was that your first order of business when you came in? You're like, this is who did this? That's why the guy was fired? It was the second. We didn't fire anybody. We evolved beyond it. We tried something and we moved on to what's next. They moved on to another role in the company. We got back to the White Castle. He's at the slider provider factory now. We were painting all the castles whiter and brighter. It's like a beacon of hope on the highway at night. As you mentioned already, we're a 24-7 operation, my friends. You know what? And thank God because America thanks you.

24:26because, as I said, the 24-7, that's when you really – you need the sliders all the time, every time, right? They're with you always, and, you know, you can share them. That's the other fun part of it. And I'll tell you what, you want to do a fun thing for National Hamburger Month? Yes, I do. Come out and work with us in a castle. You can work a late-night shift if you want, lunch or whatever, but that's the challenge. I'll invite both of you. Come and meet us in a castle. Why is it a challenge? What's the challenge? It's an invitation. He's inviting us to come work out. By the way, Jamie? Jimmy, I'm challenging me to come.

24:57I'm inviting you to come. Jimmy shows up. Jimmy will go. I'm a guy that shows up. I just heard a sincere and genuine invitation. Come on with it. I'm lifting you on that offer. I'm coming. Does Jimmy get to wear the whole White Castle outfit? Oh, heck yeah. Well, I'm going too. I'll tell you what. We'll do a safari. Drew, we're going to do a sandwich safari at White Castle. Yeah, we got you covered. Look in, Coach. We'll even let you keep your hat and your apron. Oh, man. Hello. I love it. You had me at the hat and apron. All right, listen. We got to take a quick break. Don't go anywhere. We're going to be right back.

25:26We've got a lot more. A lot more to get to. We've got hot or not. We've got some quick fire. We've got some good questions. We're here. Jamie, White Castle, Chief Marketing Officer, more to come. Stay with us. Hospitality Hangout live in Atlanta. Hey, everybody. I've got to tell you. We're going to talk about BILT. BILT hospitality. Millions of people use BILT every day. That's right. Every day to earn rewards on housing and in their neighborhood. But now, now it extends to your restaurant. That's where Built Hospitality comes in. Built Hospitality shapes how guests are recognized and taken care of.

26:03Built's restaurant-facing platform is designed specifically for dining operators to drive loyalty with their guests. It combines reservations, guest preferences, VIP management, and payments all into one platform alongside an agentic concierge. That's right, an AI concierge that thoughtfully designs and executes experiences around your guest tastes, using the latest and greatest in AI technology. When a guest walks in, your team already knows what they like without digging through notes. Built Hospitality works across the entire guest journey. That's right, the entire guest journey from delivering a complimentary course at the right moment, just the right moment, sending a personalized offer that brings them coming back again and again and again.

26:53That's right. That's what Built Hospitality is doing. It is allowing you to communicate with your guests and keep them coming back over and over. Make every guest feel like a regular every time, not just their first time, every time they're a regular. Built Hospitality is available now for restaurant groups everywhere. Learn more at builtdining.com backslash hangout. That's builtdining.com backslash hangout. And check out what Built Hospitality is going to do for you and your restaurant.

27:25All right, we are back. We are back after that quick break. I am refreshed. I went to the bathroom. I had a drink. I feel good. That break was so good, I feel like I didn't even get one. No, I even changed my cross-leg style here. All right, we're going to a little hot or not. Jamie, do you want to play this? I haven't played Hot or Not, but I'm ready. It's easy. It's easy. I'm going to ask you to say something, and you just say if it's hot or not. Okay. And then Jimmy will opine with his. Okay. We'll opine and we'll discuss. Okay, gotcha. And Jimmy will bring his. Jimmy, how do we say what you opine is?

28:01What is that? What do we. I'm just guessing Jimmy could have a contrarian view. Yeah, Jimmy will bring his views. I'll certainly be looking for one. Hot or not. Ghost kitchens. Are they hot or not? Not. french fries on burgers is that hot or not always hot always hot protein everything warm really yeah warm it's jump creatine everything depends how the vape shops are doing but i'll say uh uh no no on the creatine Yeah. GLP-1. Hot. GLP-2. It's a trick question. Yeah, I got that. Hit punt it back. GLP-3. We'll just stay with hot until we get set. And the illustrious? Jimmy's testing. GLP-4. How good does he look?

29:00Mine's a long island ICFGP. I just take them all. AI food ordering. Is that hot or not? It's hot. Drone delivery. Seen a lot of that. Not. You're saying drone delivery not hot. Not hot. Interesting. I'm trying to influence your decision-making. Social media-driven LTOs. Hot. Hot. Jimmy, I got to tell you, Jamie has really, he's given me a lot of hot. But he gave you some good, some lot of nots, too. As you were speaking, I was thinking about. I don't know what that means. I was thinking about the authenticity that is White Castle. And you are staying very current. As you said, the craves what it wants.

29:47Talk to me a little bit further about the social media side and the LTOs, the limited time offers. Because to me, when I think of White Castle, I know what I want. I go with intentionality of what I'm getting. But I imagine there's so many people with that notification that there's something special, that limited time. So you're driving traffic. Talk about that a little further. Because for me, I want what I want. And I'm probably a little bit of a dinosaur. But talk about. No, no, Jimmy, stop it. You're not. You're not a dinosaur. I appreciate that. You are a young, vivacious, handsome man. You are very attractive.

30:30But talk a little about the social media side of the LTOs. Well, it comes down to this. As Craveologists, we know there's a Crave continuum. And on one end, you've got the Crave committed. Crave committed. They're there. You know what you want. You've got the Crave curious. And so we're all about getting to the Crave curious. And that is about the LTOs. That is about making it relevant. We're doing a garage beer cheese. What's the big LTO now? Here we go, garage. Yeah, garage beer cheese right now is hot. Right. And it's hot at White Castle because we're the only ones who have it because we got together with garage beer.

30:58That's a collab. It's awesome. And it's on a smoked sausage slider. And, I mean, you have one, you're going to have ten. It's out of this world. A smoked sausage slider, did you just say? Yeah, man, we got you covered. Split sausage like you do on the grill at home. What store are we near? Are we near a store? We can go out to Nashville when we're done. What store? That's the closest store to us? Yeah, but we can get to our local grocery store. I thought 386 was opening up here. No, well, you know, we'll get there someday. Well, we could go to Florida, too. We can head to Orlando. What store number down there?

31:28We're opening in Daytona Beach. I'll make an earth-shattering announcement live here. Is this breaking news? We are opening the castle. Breaking news. Go ahead. Fellow Crave citizens, the castle in Daytona Beach will open officially at 9 a.m. on Tuesday, September 22nd. Mark your calendars. All right. There you go. Either way square. I've got to tell you. And do they have that LTO there? Oh, yeah. You got you covered. I love it. See you in line. It might be a while. Mr. Hamburger aficionado, CMO of White Castle, Jamie Richardson. That's me. Yes. Well, he told me it was French. It was Rashadson.

32:06Yeah, I was effing with you. Oh. Is a hot dog a sandwich? Is a hot dog? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely a hot dog a sandwich. Yeah. It's got protein. It's got a bun. That is all I wanted to hear. And you can dress it up. And that comes from a hamburger guy, right? On this, there can be no debate. A hot dog is not a sandwich. I'm still coming for the invitation. I'm still going to work the station, but we will agree to disagree on whether a hot dog is or is not a sandwich. I respect his opinion. I just don't agree with it. Jimmy, he didn't even hesitate. Neither did I. All my life. Yeah, he's thought about it all his life.

32:39Thank you for the chance to finally answer that question. Yeah, he's been thinking about this. All right, let's go to quick fire because we're running low on time. And all right, lightning round. Are you ready? I'm ready. Here we go. What is your go-to order? As the chief marketing officer of the greatest iconic hamburger brand in the entire world, White Castle, what is your go-to order? When you go to White Castle, what does Jamie Richardson get? Two double cheese sliders with jalapeno cheese, small fry, and a medium Coca-Cola classic. Jimmy, same question. I slowed it down. Can I say ditto because I'll have what he's having?

33:15Oh, yeah. I figured I might as well. I wouldn't have said that because I just would have gone with the classics. But I feel that. The jalapeno cheese, obviously. The jalapeno cheese got some kick. I feel like I just learned something. I learned a lot today from Jamie. I just have my new order. If not from Jamie, who are you going to learn White Castle from? I mean, you know, not that guy that they make now work over at the slider factory. The old CMO. Not the beige bag guy. I have an idea. Let's make the White Castle bag beige. Are you fired? Can you get the hell out of here? I mean. Quick fire, Shanti.

33:44Quick fire. Oh, yeah, yeah. Quick fire. We're going to find out who that guy is, though. Or gal. What is your favorite slider topping? Favorite slider topping, extra pickles. Extra pickles, eh? Interesting. if someone has never been to White Castle before, it's possible. It's possible. It's rare, but possible. What do you recommend they get? First time, never been there before. Go for two original cheese sliders, get a small order of cheese sticks, and get some chicken rings because you can't get those anywhere else, and we're going to find something that you love. What do we wash it down with?

34:19Coca-Cola. Okay. Cherry Coke's pretty good with the chicken rings. Jimmy, didn't even hesitate. Didn't hesitate. Didn't even hesitate. What is your Uber rating right now, today, in this year, 2020, whatever? Because we know what's going to air. 4.98. There was that bad experience one night in Detroit that I take responsibility for. I'm crashing and burning on my Uber lately. I am just really – I got into a fight with the guy in Chicago. 4.76. Actually, I'm up slightly. I was a 4.74 a couple weeks ago. 4.98. 4.98. 4.98. That's very good. That's excellent. You must be a big tipper. Well, I tip in coupons.

35:00White Castle coupons. Oh, do you keep them in the bag and always giving those out? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, so that's... Do you have any of those with you? I do. Oh, can I have some of those? Sure. I want to see. We're going to do... Can we do a test? Yeah. I have a whole marketing program. You're going to give me a stack of these things. Okay. I'm going to, for a month, use them and give them out in all the Ubers. Okay. And we're going to see if my Uber rating goes up. And then that will prove how valuable a White Castle is. And then we're going to document this on video. I love about this test that helps your Uber rating cost you nothing.

35:34Yeah. What are you talking about? It's great. It's gold marketing. It is gold. We're going to follow me around testing, and we're going to see my Uber rating go up each time I give a coupon to White Castle, which means that if you get White Castle helps your Uber rating. There's a collaboration here. How much Uber call us? We had a collaboration. I don't even need Uber. We have to do a collaboration with White Castle. It's just Shatsy and White Castle right here. All right. How do you take your bagel? With lots of extra cream cheese. I'll do a schmear. A lot of cream cheese. Yeah, yeah. I'll do cream cheese and butter because it's the weekend.

36:10So the weekend you're going like. Extra toasted and an everything bagel. Forget my Ozempic. It's just let's go nutty. Let's do it. sometimes when you get a cream cheese on a bagel, I find there's just too much cream cheese. And I feel like I have to say easy on the cream cheese. Do you ever find that Jimmy or me or a bagel guy in New York? I usually say, please put cream cheese on one side of the bagel. On one side. One side. You know what's the worst? The big block of frozen cream cheese. Yeah. Break the plastic knife. Yes. These are problems that these are my problems. They're not terrible, but they're problems.

36:44Everyone's got problems, Jimmy. Everyone's got problems. Right? What's the last thing you Googled or chatted or clawed it or however you get your TikTok or Instagram or LinkedIn? What's the last thing you searched? You know, probably the garage beer cheese at White Castle just to see what people were saying. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Like on Instagram, you're looking for like. Yeah, yeah. People are loving it. What is the comments? How can I get more of this? What else can I put it on? I dip my chicken rings in it. But aren't there always haters? What's that? Isn't there always an element of haters?

37:21There's always haters. So I would just love, like, someone who didn't like it. I'm just curious. What did they say? I'm just curious. You know what? The things they say that are mean. It smelled. Yeah. Give me a mean. Like, what was it? Yeah. We don't talk. We don't worry about the people who are haters because if they want to call us cat food, that's their problem. You know? I mean, I'm sure they're pleasant in other settings. I just think they're funny. This is going to come as a shock to both of you. What's that? Over the years, people have made fun of our food, and that hurts a little bit.

37:46Made fun of it. Why? We got a lot more lovers than we got haters. So that's why we have a Cravers Hall of Fame. Oh, I got to tell you, man. Many are called and few are chosen. I'm a big fan. I think anybody who says they don't like White Castle, in my opinion, has never eaten White Castle. Mark Cuban decided his wife was the one because he took her to White Castle, and she said, this is awesome. Then he asked her to marry him. There it was. Happy couple. If you've been to White Cubs, there's no way you ate it and you're like, this is bad. Yeah. There may not be one near your house. You don't get the one often, but it's delicious.

38:21Give it a go. Right? Thank you, right? Yeah, you're not going to say. It's craveable for a reason. It's delicious. Yeah, 100%. All right, listen. You have said it all. You are the chief marketing officer of one of the most iconic brands ever in the history of the world. I love it. It's delicious. Jimmy told some stories about it. I got stories about it. I don't know if there's anything more we can bring. I want to get one of these shirts. Don't tell me I've got to go to the store and buy it. That's not fair. I want you to send me one. Let's see how the Uber rating does, and then we'll see. We're going to do that whole Uber rating thing.

38:53Let's do a shift. We'll build that into the deal. We've got the finance. Yeah, I want to do a shift over there. I'm really excited about this. Come and join us for hamburger. Jamie, I've got to tell you, it was really great having you on. And, Jimmy, let's bring us home, man. Jamie, this was awesome. And thank you for dropping some knowledge, sharing some stories. and I love your journey from the agency side all the way up to the C-suite. Really, if anyone would like to get in touch with Jamie, you can email the podcast team. You have a cell phone. At podcast. That was a season one mistake. We don't do that anymore.

39:24We're not allowed to do that anymore. I'll give you Shatty's cell phone, but you can email the podcast team at podcast at branded.nyc. We'll be happy to connect you, but sincerely thank you for taking some time to chat with us on the Hangout. Crave on, my friends. Thank you very much. I got more used to the word crave. You gave me craveology today. I feel I've learned a few things, and I'm going to use crave and think of you and White Castle more whenever I do. Jamie, for all of us that don't know how to get White Castle, how do I find the White Castle? You know, you can find White Castle wherever you live in your grocery store in the freezer aisle.

39:58Is that right? Yeah. How many stores are you in? We've got 336 castles, many in a neighborhood close to you. How many stores are you in on the White Castle? in the rest of the rest. Oh, got like 90, all of them. I mean, we're 90 % ACV. Every single supermarket. Walmart, practically everybody. Everybody. But if you're in a Walmart, then. Yeah, Kroger, Walmart, Albertson. I got to tell you, so I am going to say something here as the restaurant guy. I'm a hospitality guy. Hang out, Jimmy. I'm going to say something. Say it. I'm going to be very serious here. I'm very serious with all of this. Anybody who hasn't had White Castle, you go, you run.

40:29You not walk, you run to a Walmart. Because there's a Walmart, I understand, and 10 miles of every American, I understand this. It's a fact I know, Jimmy. You can write that down. You run. You run, and you get yourself a white castle. Bring it home. Throw it in the microwave for I don't know whatever the cooking structure. And then you tell me, call me or email me, text me, it wasn't delicious. Check out the cheddar bacon that's in. Is that in the store too? Cheddar bacon cheese, so it's bits of bacon in the cheese. And check out the cheddar bacon. This is from Jamie, the CMO. Okay, cheers, everybody.