“Don’t Be Cheap!” Tony Robbins on Frugality, Spending Money, & Building Wealth

20:40And that's why I hope you read the two books I mentioned.

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21:24Graham Stephan:And this isn't some bolt-on tool. It's AI built directly into the systems that run your business, helping you cut costs, improve accuracy, and get way ahead of the competition. So whether your company is earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite gives you the visibility and control that you need to keep moving forward. And right now, you can get our free business guide, Demystifying AI, at netsuite.com slash iced. Again, the guide is totally free for you at netsuite.com slash iced with the link down below in the description. Netsuite.com slash iced. Enjoy. There's seasons of history, and this is the part your generation needs to understand.

21:59And that's why I hope you read the two books I mentioned. I'll give you an example. Over 1 ,000 years of Roman history, over 500 years of Anglo-American history, about every 20, 25 years, there's a shift in the primary mood that people are in. And it affects the way we interact with problems or challenges of different type. So I'll give you a simplistic example. If you guys were born in 1910, you don't know all your history, I'm sure, but we just won World War I. And I want you to think about it. You know the Roaring Twenties, right? So what happened in the Roaring Twenties? What do you know about it?

22:29Partying, lots of money, everyone's happy. Stock market's doing well. That's right. Explosion of new technology. The equivalent of AI. You had radio, television, telephones. You had airplanes, cars, mass. You had mass abundance that was going on. Stock market. And that happens every fall. That's a fall time, right? But fall's not forever. So when you're 10 years old, you were protected. You were born in 1910. You were protected during that time. You didn't go to war. and you grow up and you see, this is what you think life is. Life is this incredible opportunity. This is absolutely amazing. And you turn 20 years old, that transition from your springtime to your summer, and you think, I'm going to go party.

23:12I'm going to get a car. I'm going to do these cool things. Right. And by the way, those kids were totally looked down by their elders because they were called flappers. They said they didn't need discipline. It's the same thing that millennials have heard from older generations and Zs have heard from some of the older generations. Right. And the reason is it was true. They hadn't been through anything. It wasn't their bad kids. They just hadn't been tested. You don't build a muscle unless you lift some heavy-ass weights, right? So what happens? You turn 1929 when you turn 19 years old. And people are jumping out of buildings.

23:45And in the Midwest, you've got a dust bowl. And people are standing in line to have some bread. And it's like, holy shit. and those kids who were flappers and weak became the next heroes. They're known today as the greatest American generation, and the reason is because they not only made it through 10 years of depression, which isn't, by the way, all one dark time. Like, stock market crashed, and it rose three years later again, and then it crashed again. It wasn't like all darkness, just like winter isn't always dark, you know, beautiful days. But it was overall the theme of emotion is fear.

24:18By the time you were 29, for that generation, Think about your generation, what they're worried about. What happened when they were 29, if they're born in 1910? You must know your history, 1939. World War II. World War II. Suddenly, Hitler is, Luftwaffe is blitzkrieging and taking countries in days. And he was alive at the time. I wasn't, you weren't. They knew the world was over. The stock market in America crashed. Everybody's freaked out. Hitler looked like he was going to completely dominate everything that was going on. and the whole world was shaking from what this experience was. And so people volunteered to go fight that war, right, to make this thing happen.

24:55Something very different for a generation later on, right? Because they were raised different. They had a different experience. Long story short, though, they fought the war five, six years. They came back to the end of World War II. They won. And now they're the greatest generation. Why? They got muscle. They are in a position where they literally went through a depression and a world war and they came back and they started the 50s. Now we're the 50s, anything like the 40s. No, the early 60s. No. Then the next generation is raised. And that next generation, this is what you'll learn in generations, is it's not individually you individually, but as a culture, our parents overreact to how they were raised.

25:32So this generation that had nothing, wanted the kids to have everything. They sent them to college. They told them, you're going to have the greatest time of your life. You're going to be smarter than me. And their kids believed them. and they went off and had a great time with music and drugs and had a beautiful time and said, no, I'm not going to go to war. This is not fair. And so the 60s and 70s were very differently than the 40s or 50s, just like the 80s, 90s, and 2000s are different. I'll give you one last example. For 50 years, they've asked the colleges this question, starting back in the 60s, what's most important to you for the quality of your life?

26:07A philosophy of life that you learned that allows you to have happiness or the pragmatic skills for you to be financially strong and secure? What would your answer be? Second. What would yours be? First. First. Interesting. 81 % of the people that were asked that question in the 60s and 70s said a philosophy of life. It makes total sense. Think about the culture then. From the 80s, 90s, and 2000s, 82 % of the people, which is statistically irrelevant, said the direct opposite. Because they were raised, their parents were out having their little mission. And they were kids that had to let themselves in the house and watch television and make their own sandwich.

26:45And they were latchkey kids, not everyone, but as a group. And so they came up with their own music, their own rebellion, their own approach to things. And so this is how generations evolve. So when you think about the questions you kind of laid out for me about, like, you know, I'm happy to answer them individually, but isn't it different this time? No, it's not. I gave you an example. I just pulled this out to show you something interesting. It's like I heard people the other day, I pulled this out because someone was telling me, we were the worst, most divided in this country politically than we've ever been.

27:14We're going to be in civil war. This is the worst it's ever been. I said, you don't know anything about history for you to say that. It's the stupidest thing you could possibly say. So I brought this up for him. And this is two placards, because back then they didn't have social media, right? This is Thomas Jefferson and John Adams. So they put out placards when and they're fighting against each other for president. Let me read what it says, and you see how it sounds compared to today's days. If you like Thomas Jefferson, murder, robbery, and adultery will be practiced throughout the land. Are you prepared to see your dwellings in flames, female chastity violated, and your children writhing on the pike?

27:51This is what Adams put out about Jefferson, right? You know, co-founders of our country, right? John Adams, Jefferson put out, John Adams is busy importing mistresses from Europe, or trying to marry some of his sons to a daughter of King George, which to me, to them, would be like the devil. He's a hideous, hermaphroditical character with neither the force or firmness of a man nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman. I mean, when you study history, you no longer have these fears that millennials and Zs have right now. Your generations will be the next heroes. If you study this, this doesn't stop.

28:29We are not in a terrible winter yet. We have some challenges. We have lots of opportunities. But we're going to have winter. There's going to be a time there's going to be some conflict probably between China and us. Maybe it won't even be physical war. Maybe it'll be purely cyber war. It already is a cyber war, but at a larger scale. There's going to be something that's going to disrupt your lives, our lives immensely. Your generations will be the generations that will rise to deal with that. That is historically what happens. It doesn't mean every individual will. And all the things that they're worried about will go out the door.

28:58So if you were to sum up all of that information and provide some specific advice to someone out there, some real world application advice, someone that's a little bit younger, they're in that like up to 20 age or they're in the next season feeling a little jaded, a little dejected. What is some real-world application things that they can do to reverse the way that they feel about the world to actually become someone that they are proud of being, someone that's productive and positive? I'd say two things. What Jim Rohn taught me, my original teacher, when I asked him about why my fathers were broke, right?

29:34He said, if you want to have success in your life, stop asking what you can get and worrying about what you're going to get and focus on what you're going to give. If you give more value than anybody else in the marketplace, you will dominate the marketplace. He asked me at one point, because I was saying, why do my dads, four of my fathers, they were suffering. They didn't have enough money for food. And he said, Tony, we're equal as souls who are not equal in the marketplace. So if you want to have a balance, economic balance for starters, you've got to actually invest in yourself to get the skills that will give you the advantage over someone else, instead of saying how the system's not supporting you, because that mindset attitude is then self-fulfilling.

30:10Second, I'd say is you've got to become a student of history. We don't study history at all because, you know, it's not the same, but it rhymes, as you've heard, right? There are patterns that are so clear. Those three skill sets I told you are the most important skill sets I want my grandkids to have, anybody have. Pattern recognition of anything. If you can recognize patterns, you can learn quickly and you will not be in fear because it won't feel like it's random things happening to you. But you have to do your homework. You can't go online and just let somebody tell you who's pitching to you because they're afraid they're not doing well enough that the system's rigged against them.

30:43You got to look at the people that actually have succeeded and find out what's going on in their life, what they went through to get that pattern. And so that's what I did early on. I went, I studied history. I studied everything I could on psychology because that's basically what shapes all human beings. And then I shaped myself around business. And those three skills for me were the most important skills. Are some people unfixable? lot. Well, yeah, if you have no desire to improve your life, you're not going to improve your life, of course. Now, the truth is life will show up at some point and get you to make a demand.

31:11You'll have something that happens in your life. You'll have somebody in your family that gets ill. You'll have an economic thing that will happen. You'll have a COVID and your business will be shut down. You'll have, life always is calling us to grow in some way. And so it doesn't matter who you are. If you don't do it proactively, it'll happen reactively. But what I'd also say to you really is, if you notice, if you understand these three skills, pattern recognition, pattern utilization, that's where the power comes. You see somebody who's great in investing, they don't just recognize the patterns, they how to use them, right?

31:39I'm not talking about betting the money on one thing and hoping, that's not investing, right? That's, you know, basically betting. That's a betting process, right? If you really start to understand anything and you start to master the patterns, understand them, use them, and then eventually you'll create them, like playing someone's piano, you learn someone else's music first, right? Because they've already perfected it. That's what modeling is. But if you do it long enough and you're committed enough, all of a sudden you will come through. Now you're a pattern creator. If you look at somebody who's a goat in their industry, I don't care if it's a sports or business or anything else, it's because they're a pattern creator.

32:15And so if you just model everybody else, you'll succeed, right? Find the pattern that works and do it. But if you start doing that enough with enough different people, you're going to discover there's answers in you that don't exist anywhere else you are a unique human being you have something to bring to the table but it takes time it's usually quicker than people want i think the biggest difference in today is people's expectations like people say what about the wealth gap there's always been a wealth gap but the numbers now it's like there's a great book called how to lie with statistics bill gates is a quote on the cover of it and makes me laugh because you can manipulate any statistic to get any outcome that you really want but the the the wealth gap is bigger.

32:53There weren't people worth 100, 200, 300, 400 billion dollars a few years ago. So when you do that number against like median incomes and the big difference today is social media. So kids say, I want to be wealthy, but you tell me how many billionaires are there? Like 2 ,000? Yeah, maybe 3 ,000. But yeah, 2 ,000, I've seen estimates that, but I know people aren't on lists that fit that category. Some people don't want the knowledge of the right. Let's call it 3 ,000 out of 8 million people. And how many of them are worth 100 billion, 200 billion, 300 billion, 400 billion? There's a half dozen.

33:31So they are unicorns of unicorns of unicorns, right? If that's what you want, you're going to have to have a lot of incredible skill set and a lot of luck. But that's not what most people really are willing to work for. They're not willing to put in the effort that it takes to do that. Most people are not as crazy, sleep on the floor 24 hours a day, take every risk you can imagine, like Elon. I mean, he's almost been bankrupt multiple times. So what would you then say is a recipe for a happy life for the average person? A lot of people, they want to become a billionaire. They want to, you know, have the perfect idealized family in the perfect location.

34:04They want to have a supercar or they just want to be happy. What would you say is like an actual recipe for a fine life? That's a great question. The most important thing is to find something you care about more than yourself. Because whatever you're calling perfect, once you have it, it won't be perfect. Because you earn more money now than you did 10 years ago? And is it enough? Honestly, I'm pretty happy with however much I'm making. I would always like to make more. Like, you know, we're moving the business in directions that would make us more money and I want to grow the business. But I would say I'm pretty satisfied for sure.

34:40The lower your expectations, the easier it is to achieve your goals. His expectations are pretty low. No, I'm just realistic about it. Like, I don't really care about having a supercar. I don't really care about how, I mean, I will say,

34:51Graham Stephan:I didn't get a BMW i8. It was$57 ,000 used. Okay, it's nearly a decade old. I will say, though, I never wanted a mansion until I walked into this house. This is the nicest house. It's not even close that I've ever walked. I was blown away. And I've been very lucky to walk into some very nice places. This is ridiculous. Well, thank you. Congratulations. Well, thank you. But it's more than money, right? It's creativity. Like, we're literally underwater right now. They told me it would be impossible to do this. I wanted to build a squash court because I didn't want to drive 20 minutes each way. And the guy said, where are we going to put it?

35:21He said, you know, we've got two and a half acres and I've got 25 ,000 square feet here. And I said, down here. And he goes, it's below the water table. The ocean's on this side. The intercoastal's there. You can't do it. I said, well, you ever been to Atlantis? Have you ever been to Scripps Oceanography? I said, let's build a submarine. And they told me to do it in 18 months. It took about three years, but nobody knows it's down here. Right. So, you know, my grandkids, kids, everybody comes here. We have a blast. We use this constantly, but thank you for that. But to me, it's never about the thing.

35:46So to answer your question directly, if you can find something you care about more than yourself, it'll give you energy. Like there's not a reason to get up in the morning. If it doesn't take that much to meet your own needs. Some people's expectations are higher than others. So it takes more for some people. And most people, as they go through life, either adjust their expectations down or up but they usually make adjustments. But I think what you really want to be able to do is find something you care about most that gives you joy for you to get up and do, where you feel like your life has meaning.

36:14Because happiness goes up and down. Happiness is, you know, it's an energy. But meaning, a meaningful life, where you feel like, man, this is, I'm so glad that I have the privilege to be alive. I'm so glad I get to serve this way. That is what ultimately gives people joy. So you can get that meaning by being a doctor, a nurse, whether you have a hyper car or not. it's everyone has different goals and I don't tell people what they should believe, but I tell them this, whatever you want, be clear that you're going to have to find something to serve more than yourself that excites you, that drives you to get incredibly good at mastering whatever that is.

36:48If you're going to get good at it, you're not going to get it because you're lucky. And it's like Steph Curry, you know, I'm on a port of the piece of the Golden State Warriors. Steph practices 500 shots a day. You know, he makes a shot from half court and you see him and he's chewing on the side like Bugs Bunny. And he doesn't even look back. He just turns, you know, and lets it swish. He's a genius. Steph Curry in high school, never should be in the NBA. He was too short. His dad made him correct his shot because he never would have made it. He had learned to reshoot while he was in high school and college, which made him terrible.

37:19But the level of work put in, so he put in 500 shots a day, every single day, seven days a week for his entire life basically, but let's just take his 15-year professional career. That's 3 ,500 shots a week, 168 ,000 shots a year, 2.5 million shots in 15 years, so we can make 3 ,303s and be the best in history. You get rewarded in public for what you practice in private intensely. So if you want something great in your life, find out what you want. I look at it though across areas. I go, what do I want physically? What do I want emotionally? What do I want with my relationships? what I want with my finances, and then I put focus in that.

37:56And I've written books in each of those areas. So, for example, in the finance components, like, okay, how does somebody do it? Same way you always did. You're going to make money one of two ways. You're going to start your own business and grow it and sell it for a multiple or more than one business, or you're going to work for somebody else and you're going to get really good at investing. Again, not betting, investing. And you're going to compound over time.

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39:35Graham Stephan:if you get one of those post-purchase surveys, make sure to mention that you heard about CozyEarth here in the Ice Coffee Hour. It really helps us out a lot. Thank you so much and enjoy. Again, not betting, investing. and you're going to compound over time. And there are opportunities today. I don't know. Did you see what got published by kind of what they passed in Congress two days ago? I haven't heard about it. Well, it's really important. I wrote a book. I see somebody else there called The Holy Grail of Investing. Ray Dalio is one of the greatest investors in history, obviously. Good friend of mine.

40:07I interviewed him years ago. I went in for a 30-minute interview and he said Tony walked out with a four-hour because I just dug into his brain. but at the end one of the last questions I asked him is what's the single most important investment principle you could teach another human being he said tony well you have to understand all investing is risk reward and he said so the more you can reduce your risk but have upside reward the better it is but there's only one way to do that consistently without luck and he said I call it the holy grail of investing he said funny you should say that I worked on it for 30 years to refine this principle for myself and he said if you have eight to twelve uncorrelated investments hard to get uncorrelated today, right?

40:45Because many things are aligned across markets today, but you can do it when you have private equity investments, private credit investments, and so forth. He said, if you can find eight to 12 that are strong investments, you reduce your risk 80 % and you gently increase your upside. There's no loss in your upside. So I decided to write a book on that one principle, but also on private equity. Because right now it pissed me off. You know, I hear kids will say to me, well, well, you know, only the wealthy get more wealthy. This is total bullshit. I know it looks that way, but it's bullshit, but it's not their fault.

41:16That's what they get educated. So I thought, let me write this book because I knew this was going to happen in Congress. Congress has been talking about it. They passed it two days ago. Up until now, let's say you put money in the S &P 500. That's where most people will put their money today. So over the last 36 years, it's had about a 9.5 % return, right? Over time. And if you had a million dollars you put aside and you wake up 26 years later, 36 years later, it's$26 million. Private equity has compounded basic private equity, not the people I interviewed in this book, basic private equity, like not the great ones, 15.5.

41:52So almost 50 % faster per year. What does that mean? Same million dollars instead of being worth$26 million, it's$142 million. dollars. Same investments. Only one problem, access. So you'd say to me, Tony, that sounds wonderful. Maybe you can get it because you know some few people. I could, but I couldn't get a large volume either because getting a volume of these investments is difficult. It's like the velvet rope, right? You know, it's pre-sold. Everybody's in the game. So I started doing my homework and I found out something was much better. I found out you can actually buy a piece of the companies, not the fund, and you get the two in 20 they normally charge everybody else.

42:30And so I own right now a piece of over 85 different private equity firms from Vista, $100 billion company, you know, Robert Smith, who's produced a 26 % compounded return for over 25 years. Right? I can give you list after list after list. But here's what's interesting. You used to have a minimum, you know, net worth you have to have or a minimum income. They just changed the rules. I wrote the book about this. And they did it yesterday. Senate has to pass it now, but they're going to. It looks like there's no challenge. All you have to do is take a test. Because the idea was you shouldn't have these sophisticated investments.

43:04Graham Stephan:Did you know about that? I knew they were trying to pass a test that someone could take. And my understanding was that the test was pretty passable. I mean, basic questions. It's very basic. Because here's the problem. Think about this. It's the same questions you take to trade options on Robinhood, basically. I mean, is that a good or a bad thing, what you said? Well, I'll tell you what it is. Yeah. You know, if you look at the history, in the last 36 years, every stock market in the world has underproduced private equity. In a classroom of sodas, most stay quiet. Then there's Mr. Pibb, sweet cherry, bold outbursts, the kind of flavor that gets attention.

43:42Bold kick of cherry. Hey, yo, Mr. Pibb. And when stock markets crash, these guys don't have to sell.

43:49Graham Stephan:But do you think that's going to open up for bad actors to say, hey, listen, these people are going to invest in private equity and I could do the bare minimum and they could invest in my fund and they don't have to be as sophisticated. You still have the SEC measuring everything, right? You still have to pass. But as long as you're up front with your disclosures, it doesn't matter if it's a bad investment because then you leave it up to the people to pick. You can do a bad investment on S &P 500. That's true. You can go to a casino when you're 21 in Vegas. That's true. If I'm looking to get things on my side where there's less volatility, less losses, faster returns, and a larger return for 36 years, It can't be your whole portfolio.

44:26Graham Stephan:My worry is that then it comes down to more so good marketing to market that fund than it does the actual competency of the business. That's my worry. Well, there's always something to worry about if you want to worry. I'd prefer to focus on what people can take advantage of if they really want to grow at the same rate of anybody else who's very wealthy. Because the wealthy have had that exclusively for them. You couldn't get in it before. But that's changing. I think that's one of the good things that Congress is doing. And how would that be different from investing in an individual stock versus like an index?

44:55Graham Stephan:Because we always preach just invest in the index. Don't pick individual stocks. Well, think about this. I own these companies that own 100 or 200 companies each. But here's the difference. They buy the company as cheap as they can and they're very smart. That's how they do it. Then what do they do? They put a new CEO. They bring in AI. They make new changes in technology. And they build the company up and either take it public or they sell it to another larger company. And so it's a more efficient way of doing business. the number of stocks has shrunk over the last 30 years, right? They haven't gotten larger.

45:25The number of private businesses that have private financing has gone through the roof. Private credit. I remember not that many years ago when, you know, people are trying to get junk bonds, you know, for they're getting 4 % of their junk bonds and I was getting 11 % on private equity and I had less than one half of 1 % problem, meaning, you know, money dropping out. Any bank would die for that because these guys loan money to companies that they've already invested in. they know everything about them. They know who runs it. They know where they're going. These are the masters of finance. I'm not trying to sell a book because I give away all the right, all the money for my book, Defeating America.

45:58But so if anybody wants to pick it up, read the Holy Grail of Investing. It will blow your mind because it'll show you private credit. It'll show you sports teams. Like, you know, I originally was growing up, like I was, I was in right field at Dodger stadium once a year to buy a ticket to be in the bleachers. And now I'm an owner of them. right? So there's ways with sports teams to own a piece of you. You don't have to own the whole company. They give you tremendous benefits and are a blast and they're an uncorrelated investment, right? They're tied to what the S &P 500 is doing. So there's just so many opportunities to get a broader base.

46:31But again, you're either going to have to build businesses and sell them for a multiple, or you're going to have to become a good investor. That's how you develop wealth in this country. It hasn't changed an ounce, but the access has changed. There's more access, as we're speaking right now than there's ever been. What's been your best financial investment? Single best financial investment? I think probably I bought a power plant in West Virginia because I saw what was happening with AI coming and the need for data centers. And it was a coal power plant that they were shutting down and I saved all the jobs.

47:04And that investment's returns, ridiculous. How did you find that? Because I'm always studying the trends. Right. Again, you're not going to do anything unless you become a student. You got to become a student of personal development, because if you don't grow, it's like, I remember you asked me the question, my best investment. I asked that to Warren Buffett. And Warren said, Tony, it's what you do. I said, what are you talking about? He goes, he said he invested in, um, um, uh, what was the guy's course? Um, the public speaking course, Dale Carnegie, because I invested in Dale Carnegie. He said, most important investment I've ever made in my life.

47:40he said because otherwise my ideas would have dropped out but i learned how to communicate my ideas otherwise you wouldn't know who i am he goes and he said the most important investment you can ever make is in yourself he actually did a big tirade on those two years ago was on one of his one of his talks and he said look here's the best part about this investment no one can tax it right your skills keep growing and no one can take any piece of that if if dollar goes crazy it goes to nothing and we got shekels you'll get the most shekels if you're the most skilled lawyer or the most skilled investor, the most skilled, whatever the case may be.

48:10He said, the investment in yourself is always the first and most important investment. I believe that's true. It's been true for me. And what's been your worst investment? Probably when I was like 17, 18, 19, I'm sorry, 19, like 18 or 19, and I went by this dry cleaner so I lived in Marina Del Rey and this woman poured up and pulled up in a brand new Rolls-Royce Corniche convertible. She was a knockout lady anyway. I was dumb enough to think I had a moment with this lady, right? So I talked to her a little bit and I said, wow, you know, what's your business? You know, she goes, well, my husband's business.

48:40I was like, okay. Yeah, he's in penny stocks and everything else. I said, really? She goes, I said, well, dumbest thing you can ever ask. Got any tips? She goes, actually, we do. And when we just think it's hot and I got another one that's about to shoot. So you want to share any tips? She gave me the tips and I took$10 ,000, which at that time was a huge amount of money from me. I poured it all in this stupid, you know, speculation. I wasn't investing. And sure enough, it went up for about two months and then it went through the floor and I lost all of it. And that's what told me, you don't speculate.

49:07You learn to become an intelligent investor. Why didn't you sell? Well, the amount of going up was not enough to change my life by itself. I think it went up by$14 ,000 and was like, okay,$4 ,000, that's nice. And plus, everybody's saying this thing's going to keep going, right? They kept talking about it. They're talking about this kind of change exchanges and all this bullshit. You just can't get caught up in trying to get rich quick. It just doesn't work.

49:30Graham Stephan:It never worked. So what trends are you seeing over the next few years? If it's going from AI data centers, where do you think is the next step beyond that? Well, I think what very few people are talking about right now is nanotechnology. I mean, at least next 10 years, AI is going to empower a lot of other things. But right now, you know, there's technology where they can literally create these nanobots. They're too expensive right now. They're like a million dollars to do, 10 million dollars, whatever the number really is. I don't remember the number. Ray Kurzweil was telling me this. He's one of the greatest inventors of all time.

50:01And he said they can put like, they'll be able to put 10 % of your blood, red blood cells with these nanobots and you'll be able to run a four minute mile you'll be able to hold your breath for five hours if you had a heart attack you'd have two days to get it to the hospital without you know dying there are things going to happen with nanotechnology that are beyond imagination and so it's it's really early if you're doing there it's going to take a while and you know pioneers often get the arrows in their back but i'm on the verge i've watched where those things are. I've dipped my toes in those places.

50:32And I think robotics is the other obvious one, right? Robotics is going to be huge. And what about the integration of AI and health? We've spoken to a lot of people that are really trying to dissect that whole community. And people are saying that lifespans could dramatically increase. They're saying that it could even get to a certain point. I mean, if you're younger than 35, you could potentially live forever if you could put your brain onto a cloud. I imagine you have access to some really fascinating information where the two are conjoined. What have you found? Well, Ray Kurzweil is probably the smartest guy in the world in that area.

51:07He created MIDI music. He created Siri. He created just about anything you can imagine. He's the Einstein or Edison, I should say, of our time. And he also has this mindset about our capacity. He also thinks you'll be able to download your brain and put it into a, get rid of this biosubstance and have something that can last forever. I don't know if I want to last forever in those areas personally, but I do want to last as long as I can in this lifetime. I think I have a company called Fountain Life, and what we do is we take people in, and they come in, and we help them to maximize their energy, and we do hormonal replacement therapy.

51:42We do everything that matters, stem cells. What about peptides? Peptides as well. We do all of the above. But what you've got to find is there's many breakthroughs. The biggest breakthroughs are probably going to happen with killer cells, because that's what's going to change your immune system the most. Because aging is really the breakdown of the immune system. All the things that people do when they age, the manipulation or the multiplication of cancers and heart disease and all those things is really the immune system starting to break down. So the most interesting work that I'm aware of is all the stuff that's being done with immunology right now.

52:15But I also, we have a group, I have a group called The Estate that I have partnered in. We have 21 hotels around the world that will be five-star hotels that are exquisite that people can go to. Instead of going to a medical center or going to a spa-like environment, let's say in Switzerland for a week, you'll go in and do everything. About 15 % of the people that come to our centers think they have no problem just coming to maximize their health and vitality and strength like athletes, people like that. 15 % walk in with a major problem that they're unaware of when they walk in. And so Sam Nazarian is my partner who created SB Entertainment, SLS Hotels, Mondrian Hotels.

52:54he sold all of them in 1999 in December right before COVID for you know billion plus dollars and then his health had deteriorated and so he came to me I wrote an entire book by the way called Life Force which is like 700 pages which is the best of the best in every area of health that exists the cutting-edge tools he said Tony no one's done this I interviewed 150 of the greatest medical advisors regenerative doctors and so why don't you come through our program and just test it out. So he came through and we found two aneurysms for him. One was so bad, his doctor said, if it had gone, he'd never made it to the hospital.

53:29So a lot of people, they find something, but we catch it when it's small. Today, you want to know, like a doctor's visit, you know, physical is absurd. We're doing the same thing we did a hundred years ago, but now we can get six terabytes of information about what's actually going in real time in your body. and we can make corrections on things when it's not a big challenge. If you, I know you have a cancer today, for example, the cancers we die of are the ones we catch late because we don't test for those. And so people get colonoscopies, they get breast cancer tests and so forth, but there's about 50 different cancers.

54:05If you catch it at stage four, according to National Cancer Society, you have an 80 % chance of dying. I prefer the 20 % chance of living, but their point is well made. if you get to stage one you have a 99.9 chance of living and so today having that kind of a screen where you can test 50 different cancers blood blood cancers you can see a full mri of your body you know exactly where it's going and you can make adjustments it's priceless but we're creating that now in an environment that's pure luxury so you can live there or you can go visit there all over the world from abu dhabi and to paris to the caribbean and so forth the amount of businesses that you are involved in has just completely astounded me.

54:48I mean, like I was very well aware that you have many different businesses, but when you're throwing out stuff like the data centers and then you were having a conversation with this person, you created this health thing, and then you also have the public speaker, you have the books, you have, I feel like your toes dipped into every single bucket. I'm curious, why are you not just exhausted? Do you ever just wake up? Well, I am exhausted today. I'm coughing here because I've been going, and I did seven days at 12 hours a day of an event. And then another seven days right after that, which is extreme.

55:15I don't usually do that back to back like I did. How often though are you waking up and you're just like, screw it? Like I'm just, today? No, because I love the diversity of what I get to do. And I have a different hunger. My hunger is I want to know the answers. You know, I get a phone call, if not every day, certainly every other day from somebody that's got, somebody in their family's got Alzheimer's, somebody's got cancer, somebody's got, you know, a health problem. somebody's going through an economic challenge. Somebody has got, I mean, somebody called me last night at your friend of mine.

55:44He's like, my friend, she's a very famous actress. She's in Switzerland right now. She tells me she's going to kill me off. And I'm like, it's 1.30 in the morning and I'm, you know, I haven't slept. And I said, well, let me help out. So I'm able to do that. But now I'm able to do it with other people too. I can leverage it to other people, which gets me a little base. But I love being involved in so many different things that are challenging to be involved in everything to do with health, to be involved with, you know, making movies you know i don't just make movies to make movies i don't know if you familiar with how bad it is when it comes to trafficking in this world but my wife and i have saved over 70 000 children i've actually gone out on these things where they put me in movie makeup with scars and negotiated with these guys it was the ugliest thing i've ever done the

56:25Graham Stephan:most beautiful thing to see these kids how do you ensure that your safety isn't at risk i have i have former cia and fbi and seal team six guys all around me we have 35 of them so explain what What is it exactly that you do? Yeah, and how do you infiltrate that with so many people looking out for you without tipping someone off? Well, I've only done that experience with them once. They do it all the time. We rehearsed everything. We had hidden cameras everywhere. We couldn't tell the police because the police are corrupt. So we talked to the prime minister. So we do have a certain amount of risk.

56:56But I'm one of the smartest guys I know. Again, C-Tail 6 guys, they know how to run an operation like you can't imagine. We rehearsed everything. They bring this guy out for the negotiation. and right before he comes out, somebody in the boat goes, you're Tony Robbins. I'm like, what? They recognize my voice. So it didn't matter how I looked. So in microsecond, the boat's coming up. They had me sit in the corner with these two women, and I just was going to nod my head if I could get a big beard on and everything else, you know? And we finished the negotiation. There was one of the madams there, I could sense she knew something was off.

57:31And she had like spidey sense. I was watching her. She was processing it differently. And so they got them back on the boat and they go in and now they're supposed to capture them. And the special forces supposed to come in and they didn't show up. And so we're all freaking out. And then sure enough, the last minute they show up, surround them, capture all these guys who captured, I think at the time we freed, I think it was 48 kids. And, um, and we, we locked up 11 of these madams, but then we had to get the hell out of there because the police are coming in. And, you know, we're not, you know, we're not qualified to be there.

58:07Plus they can be corrupt as well. So we took a speedboat and got out of the place and went out there. So I got to direct experience. But I have a friend that went through my seminars and then he's an AI guy, a machine learning guy. And he went to Indonesia and set up shop in this old hotel. He was so moved about what we were doing. And he's the one that I fund the most now. And he is, his name's Om. He just brought about 15 of these girls here that they free. They went to a seven-day seminar I do called Date with Destiny. I do it once a year. And these kids are so turned around. You can imagine it's not just rescuing them.

58:38After that kind of trauma, getting them to have a human life again, getting them to trust human beings, that's a whole other piece. So we use all my tools to help them with that. He rescues them. But I just got one of my friends to give him$10 million. It's another, you know, big chunk to help him do it.

58:54Graham Stephan:How do you process that, though, to see that firsthand? And then you go home. You never process it. You will never forget it as long as you live. It's, like I said, it's the ugliest thing in the world. It's the most beautiful. We flew all the kids here. I'm fortunate enough to have a large plane at 737. So we flew all the girls here after we freed them. As the first they landed, and they're out on the ocean here. They came down here in bowling and playing basketball, and they got to be kids again. Seeing them when they're free is a whole different game than anything you can imagine. And it makes all of it worthwhile.

59:24Plus, no one wants to talk about it because it's the ugliest thing you can talk about. so that's why you know we did the sound of freedom i don't know if you saw that film i i executive produced that film so we could tell it through a story because it's such a big deal if you follow one child's life and it was a true story you can get it like war is too big you can't process war right but you can process one child going through war so we did that and we beat disney's number one you know show coming out on july 4th two years ago and then i just did uh another film. And I'm now starting a studio with a group of friends of mine that's all about kind of hero films, the films that we've lost, the hero's journey films, that show that life is hell and here's how you break through it and here's how you eventually conquer it.

1:00:06Because those are the oldest stories of humanity. So how do you feel seeing true, just evil, but then comparing that with how some people here, like in westernized culture in America, think that they're huge victims for - Oh, that's why I don't have a lot of patients or somebody's whining about, you know, they don't have enough special sauce on their burger or their, you know, their Uber eats and that arrived on time. And the things that, you know, they're, they're banging on their phone, you know, cause it's not making a connection. It's going to a satellite, give it a fricking moment. Right.

1:00:40You know, it's like, I think it's ridiculous, but at the same time, I understand it. It's cause we only know what we know. Right. So we're all going to have different experiences. Like if you live long enough, you're going to lots of experiences. If your life's been protected, there's a point when, at which it won't be, you're going to go through other seasons. And some people go through a tough season early on in life. Some people go through a tough season in the middle of the life. Some people go tough season in the end, but you live long enough. Everyone's going to go through winter, right?

1:01:05And it's not to say you're not going to have winter times at different stages of your life. Of course, each stage has challenging times, but I'm talking about real winter, the dark night of the soul, where you feel like, holy, you know, I'm not going to make it through this. I know, you know, Have either one of you ever had a situation where your life was on the line? Like I was— Like you thought you could die? No. Yeah. When that happens, which I don't hope it doesn't, but it probably will at some point in your life, it's the greatest gift in the world if you don't let it kill you, if you let it drive you, because after you make it through that, nothing, nothing bothers you.

1:01:39After that, every day is a gift. Anyone who's—talk to anybody who's had a near-death experience, they'll come back and tell you, it's like, you know, what do you— I had a friend that was in, it was a pilot in Vietnam and he was a hotshot pilot, older guy, obviously. And he got shot down and got locked up for seven years in this North Vietnamese prison. And they chained him to a floor in isolation and they chained him so that his legs were up here and his back here on a, on a hill. So when he went to the bathroom and peed, all the acids would go out his back and burn him. They beat him regularly.

1:02:12He got out all those experiences and he was like 75 years old years ago when I'm spending time with him. And the IRS came and they were being totally unjust. It took him like three years to get his money back. He went through so much crap. But I was like, why aren't you more upset? He's like, Tony, after the North Vietnamese, what on earth do you think could possibly get me? So it's like both of you gentlemen and all the people listening, I don't care how good a person you are. I don't care how religious, how beautiful, God-driven, I don't care how wealthy you are, smart you are, no one's going to escape extreme stress.

1:02:45It's going to happen more than once in your life. You're going to get robbed or your house is going to burn down. Or someone's going to tell you you've got a tumor. I've had that also. Or you're going to have to bury a mother or father or multiples. Or you're going to have some, you're going to have, or someone's going to shut down your business with a COVID. You're going to have some extreme stress moments in your life. What you do with those moments, whether you use stress, you let stress use you is going to determine your destiny. And those moments, if you push through them, and it's like when they say, when you're going through hell, what do you do?

1:03:13Keep going. You'll, you'll learn three things. One, you'll figure out how strong you really are because you don't know how strong you are until you have to be. It's just the truth. Second, you'll find out who your real friends are, not your effing Facebook friends. Your real friends, the ones that want all hell's breaking loose that are actually there for you when it's not convenient. And the third thing, the most important thing is you'll develop an immunity to other challenges. Not like they won't bother you, but it's like, it's hard to find a worthy opponent when you've been through enough.

1:03:40So some people have that extreme stress early on in life, multiple times. Some people have it midlife, some later in life. I think the worst time to get it is later in life when you've never had it because you have no strength to really deal with that. So my hope for you gentlemen, as just as a person a few years your senior, is that those, when those things come, you'll see them for what they are. It is, if you know the hero's journey, the longest story of humanity across all cultures, it starts with a call to adventure. It doesn't look like a call to adventure. It's your house burned down, right?

1:04:11So my house burned down years ago in LA. So when this happened in LA, I could help people because I've been through it, right? It was the worst thing in the world. Everything I had, there was nothing in the cloud in those days. All the things I had. But I had to remind myself, we all lived, and it sent me on a journey. I moved to a new place. And when you go on a journey, it's a call. And when you go on that, you can resist the call, but it'll keep coming until you face the challenge. And then you meet new people, you meet new mentors, you fight new battles, you get stronger, and eventually you evolve to a different level.

1:04:41And now you have something to give because you've lived enough life. You've been through so much crap and you've succeeded. Now you want to help because you don't want other people to have to go through that and you usually can't help. And right when you think it's all over, it'll happen again. I actually could not agree with that more because my house burned down when I was 18 in a California wildfire. Once again, it was the Thomas fire. And I remember at the time, it was the most devastating thing that had ever happened to me. Probably still is to this day. But I actually think of it as a good thing.

1:05:10Granted, it took a couple of years to really develop it, but I truly believe it to my core that now a lot of the hardships that I go through on a day-to-day basis become so trivial to me because I know what it was like to not even have a home after I'd grown up with a home for 18 years of my life. and it makes everything so just a non-issue. And Jack, because you have that experience, you can help somebody else someday when they're in that experience because you can talk from experience, not verbal bullshit you read in a book. It's like you know what this can lead to. And when you live long enough, Jack, you'll see that this is going to happen other times in your life in other ways.

1:05:43It may not be a house burning down. Each one of those will stack till you'll develop a different level of muscle and you'll be able to do things you never thought you could do and you'll be able to help people you never thought you could help. But you can't do it. You don't get it without building the muscle. And the muscle comes by dealing with big challenges. You know, it's like you don't get it with little weights. So what's the thing that you can do where if you're experiencing some sort of extreme hardship to try to have a more positive response to it as opposed to a negative one? Because I always like to say the things that I think make a really successful entrepreneur, a really successful person in general, is if they go through a failure, you can either turn it into a success or you can let it make you jaded.

1:06:22And it can make you turn on life. And that will be a true failure. A failure that turns into a success is a success. And then if you also have successes, those are just, you know, byproduct of success. So one person is only ever succeeding. One person is failing and turning the failure into like a true failure. What is the main difference? is did you learn something? You know, if you can, if you can trust that life is happening for you, not to you, I know that takes a big trust, but as you get older and you dig, and if you have any level of faith whatsoever, I don't mean religion, just faith. Faith is how you drive down the street when there's cars come at you at 65 miles an hour and there's nothing but a yellow line, right?

1:07:00How do you do that? Because if you don't, you have to sit at home and do nothing. So you develop the muscle called faith and you trust and you move forward. But if you do that several times in your life, like you just said, you've been through that experience, you're going to find yourself having a different mindset. So how do you do it? You feed your mind every day. You don't just read the crap that's fed to you on your phone. You don't just read what everybody gives you. You pursue really great ideas. Great ideas, great strategies don't interrupt you. They got to pursue them. And I look at them in my body, my mind, my emotions, my relationships, my finances, and the spiritual realm of life.

1:07:32Those six areas and then running businesses are the seven core areas that I look at. And I'm constantly learning in all of them which is also why I love doing so many different businesses because they make demands in each of those areas. And that's why I can help so many people because I've operated in so many different areas that matter. So if you think about life, there aren't that many areas that matter. Most people major in minor things. They know lots about something that doesn't give a damn. It doesn't change your life. But you better know how to have the energy and vitality and strength over a lifetime.

1:07:59You better know what it's going to take for you to have great relationships. You better know when you're facing unbelievable odds how to retrain your mind because if you don't let that happen, you're not going to have anything.

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1:09:27Graham Stephan:Now, really quick, I just want to say that when Jack and I first started the iced coffee hour, we did not wait for the perfect moment to start. We just began and figured it out on the fly. That's why if you've been telling yourself, next year, I'll start that business idea, make today the day that actually counts. And our sponsor, Shopify, is the best way to get moving. See, maybe you have an idea you just can't seem to shake, a product that people keep asking you for, or you've already built up a store in your head. Shopify is the platform that finally turns that idea into something real. Shopify gives you everything you need to sell both online and in person.

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1:10:43Graham Stephan:So sign up for your$1 a month trial period and start selling today at shopify.com slash ICH. Again, the link is down below in the description to get started or go to shopify.com slash ICH. Thanks so much. Enjoy. When's the last time you cried? I cry easily. I have more grace tears than today. and sometimes I see my daughter and I I can get tears with her just like I just can't believe my youngest daughter because I have a four and a half year old and I just think this is the most insane thing God has so blessed me to have this life and then there are times when I think about you know it's a limited you know this is not an this cycle of life is not forever so at this day I never had that thought when I was your age I didn't have that thought when I was 50 I didn't have that thought when I was 60 But around 65, about a year ago, I started saying, like, man.

1:11:33And I think part of it is because I've lost so many friends, you know, who've died. I'm fortunate enough to have some friends that are in their 80s that are really successful. You know, Steve Wynn's a good friend of mine. I've built most of Las Vegas. And, you know, Ray Dalio's a dear friend. I mean, some real genius people that are living life fully at, you know, 20 years, 25 years older than I am. So they're good role models for me. What are you most insecure about? I'm not going to say I'm not insecure, but I don't have anything at this time in my life I don't feel very secure about. I think the, I think.

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1:12:47Graham Stephan:According to Indeed data, Sponsored Jobs have four times more applicants than non-sponsored jobs. So go build your dream team today with Indeed. Get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. If I have any uncertainty in my life, my uncertainty is just I need to find a little more balance in terms of taking care of my health. I pushed my health a little too extreme just recently. And so I have to make adjustments on the way home at five in the morning on my plane. I was like, here are some things I'm going to say no to. Because I hate to say no to anything.

1:13:19I love life. I love all the opportunities. I think that's the most important thing. What's the best thing you've spent money on? Best thing I've spent money on? Experiences with my family, experiences with my friends. I have a friend, Peter Guber, one of my dearest friends. He's now 80. I think he's 84, something like that. And he's just the most driven guy. You know, he's got 52 Academy Award nominations, some movies. We've started the Major League Soccer team in LA together, LAFC. He owns the Dodgers. the owners. We got to go together just recently to the, you know, the Dodger victory, the seventh game in Toronto and spend that time together.

1:13:57So experiences, but we also go on trips. Like we go to different parts of Africa. We do wild trips, Antarctica kind of thing. I like adventures and things of that nature, but I'd say to me, I love being able to do things that mobilize people or help people that they'll even never know it was even me. You know, like I've fed, personally i've had over a billion people but i've promoted and i got to 62 billion people just the last three years and i've not met 95 of those people but they're alive today because i mean the sudan literally they're alive because i wouldn't give up and i said i'll put the money up we're gonna we're gonna hire c-130s we're gonna hire drones we're gonna drop the food in there we're not gonna call these people starve um that makes me feel like that's the best investment i could possibly make.

1:14:44What about the worst thing you've spent money on? Money is not my focus, honestly, believe it or not. I'm very fortunate to have abundance in my life, but I see this abundance more than just economics. But I know that worst thing and probably anything stupid I just bought and didn't really enjoy. And if you don't enjoy it, it's a waste of time. There's one last thing that I would really like to do while we're here. Yes. Graham has a bit of a scarcity mindset and all of the viewers are very well aware of this. He's always felt like money can just go like this in the same way that it can come like this.

1:15:17And this has led to him consistently making decisions that I see are like, why are you doing that? Like, why are you trying to save$2, but you're allocating 30 minutes of your time shopping for a better quote? You're reverse image searching. You're going through to page 27 on Google to try to find something that looks almost like what you really want. My wife does the same thing, just so you know. We both grew up poor, but her thing is her family, like, sharpen your pencil. They negotiate everything down to the dollar. Mine was, I'm going to earn enough to take care of everybody. I don't have to think about it, right?

1:15:46That type of thing. So it's just a different mindset. But your question is what? I would say if we could unpack this, because I see it, I mean, I'm his business partner. And so there are things that we can sometimes disagree on where I'm like, hey, let's invest a little bit more into this. And he's like, oh, let's maybe dial it back. And I see this as something like, hey, maybe if we were a little more open to reinvesting and spending stuff. Also as his friend. I mean, like I said, it makes zero sense to spend 30 minutes of your time to save$2.

1:16:12Graham Stephan:I have a lot of pain spending money. I hate it. I get zero enjoyment from buying a new thing. Even though the new thing is great, but like I just got a new Tesla Model X. Because it means that you're going to lose what? I think I'm going to lose opportunity or optionality in the future. And then I look at the value of that in the future. And I think, would I rather have X amount 30 years from now compounded or the thing today? Then I think, do I need the thing today? And the answer is no. And then I think, could I get the same thing for cheaper? And then I'll spend months trying to get the cheaper.

1:16:48One of the things I learned when I was writing Money Mash the Game, I interviewed Mary Callahan Erdos, who's the most influential woman in finance. J.P. Morgan, right? Manages$2.5 trillion, whatever was the time. Great lady, by the way. and um and i said to her i was asking about asset allocation you know because that's the most important thing in investing and she said tony i will actually put people in treasuries you know when they were even lower than they are now and she goes my my associates are like are you insane she goes if they're risk adverse so the thing you have to think about is i'm not here to judge you should be away a certain way or not whatever somebody is they can be if that's what makes him happy, then let him be fulfilled by that.

1:17:28To you, it makes no logical sense. I would be on your side of the fence. But my wife does this. She's driving me crazy. Now, I love that she's going to go, you know, with plenty of money and she's going to choose to drive, like I swore I would never again go to a Kmart or whatever they call those things. Walmart, Target. Yeah, I grew up in those places, right? I'm not going to go to those places again. And my wife would drive across town to save money for this or get gasoline. But that's her culture. That's what she was raised with. Now, gradually, gradually over decades, she's starting to loosen it up.

1:18:00But I think it's important that people, whatever you're looking for financially, you set it up in a way that makes you feel good. So the problem is your partner is you want different things. That's true in an intimate relationship too. And you have to be able to navigate that. What you might start to do is say, okay, I'm not giving all this up. I'm going to take this little piece here and use it for growth in this core business. Because in the end, your business will probably be, I don't know, if you run your business properly, the most profitable thing you're ever going to do because you'll sell it for a significant multiple.

1:18:30Yes, you'll compound through investments. I agree with that 100%. But because you have your own business and it seems like it's one you guys are doing well in, it might be worth a small investment in testing it. I would also just test everything. I'd test it with small dollars and see what I was able to produce. And that's how you'll get him more comfortable with it. But I think you guys have, that's a negotiation between the two of you.

1:18:52Graham Stephan:But sometimes I feel like I do lack that abundance mentality. You do. We're around a lot of people who just spend freely and they have... It's stress-free. It's stress-free. Whereas yours is like stress jam. Yes, but they have this such core belief that it doesn't matter if I buy this brand new black badge calling in because I'm just going to make it next year. They have this such like a firm belief whereas I'm like, hey, the YouTube algorithm could change in a moment's notice and I don't want to have to be forced to do something that I don't want to do. It's just... Yes. So there are things called metaprograms which have to do with what controls your decision-making process.

1:19:28So just very briefly, for example, his is more necessity-based, yours is more possibility-based. You do things because it's possible. He wants to do it because it's necessary. If it's not necessary, then why would I do it? Those are different filters that your brain makes decisions from. Now, can you change them? The answer is yes. but it takes a significant emotional event that would jolt him out of it. He's being reinforced for this. I'll just ask you a curious question. Whose love did you crave the most growing up, your mother or your father? I'm sure you love them both, but whose love did you crave the most?

1:20:00Graham Stephan:I don't think either was one more than the other. They were both very attentive. I didn't say that. Yeah. Whose love did you crave more? Did I crave? I don't... Well, crave is too strong a word for you. Maybe. Because I feel like I've always been very independent as a kid. Like, I would always do what I wanted to do, and both of them were supportive of that. Who did you need to be for your father?

1:20:27Graham Stephan:Who did I need to be? How did you need to be? Who did you need to be?

1:20:34Graham Stephan:Um. It's his first gut reaction. You're filtering it too much with your mind. God. Well, I'm trying to think of even who I needed. I don't think he had an expectation of me. I think Yeah If I may Please please Jackie Your mother had a little bit more Expectations for you Than your father did Yeah That's 100 % Yeah Okay So who did you have to be For your mother? Uh Probably a bit more studious Uh A bit more respectful Would probably be A bit more like You know Follow in line I would say Follow the rules? Yeah A little more More than my dad For sure And are you those things? No No You're not You're not respectful you're not studious you don't follow the line i definitely don't follow the line am i respectful i try to be but i i'm talking about this financial area of your life yeah financially yes yeah financially i'm very disciplined on that yeah yeah maximally yeah yeah but when it comes to like entrepreneurship or just what i want to do i'm definitely pushing the boundaries constantly what about putting money on the line to to grow your business uh no no i've always done the bare necessities when it comes to like anything I could do myself.

1:21:46Graham Stephan:Like I didn't hire anybody for the first like three to four years. I did everything myself. Most entrepreneurs in the beginning of their career are operators. Operators do everything. They try to keep everything as tight as possible. They hire the best person they know themselves. And then they hire the next best person they can do. But the best person they know they hire, they also don't pay them enough usually because it's their business to make a go. And you get stuck in a certain plateau unless you get to a point. The reason I have all these businesses, how can I possibly run 114 businesses, have five kids, five grandkids, travel the world, do my speaking, do all the things I do, have a life.

1:22:26If I was an operator, I'm an owner. So I've learned how to be an owner. An owner is somebody I've learned how to build teams that can do those things. But to do that, I had to go through the process that most young entrepreneurs don't do, which is you know you can do it better than somebody else, you do it yourself. And so as long as you do that, then no one else can make the mistakes. They can't learn, they can't grow, and you're tied to the business. So your business is really a paid job, a very paid job, maybe a highly-weighted paid job, but it's a job still. It's not a business, so you can walk away for a month or two and do nothing and have it keep growing.

1:23:00So you have to decide if you want a job or if you want a business. And there's nothing wrong with having a, you know, is a independent, you know, someone who owns their own business, that's what they call it. But usually what that person is, they're self-employed to be a more accurate description. If you own a business, then you have a system that works without you. All these businesses I'm talking about, I'm strategic. I enter in strategically different points. I make strategic decisions. I help the teams. But I don't have to be there for them to run, or there's no way on earth I could do what I'm doing.

1:23:31I mean, I'd be run ragged, completely. I wouldn't even go and rag it. It wouldn't be impossible. So you're at a stage as an entrepreneur where unless there's nothing wrong with staying self-employed. But if you ever want to get beyond that scarcity mode, you're going to have to take some risks. Not huge ones. They can be risks that you guys can test, you know, in a very simple way with a small amount of money, prove that it works, and then that would be more his strategy, and then move forward. But you're not going to usually, you know, in a relationship, people usually have opposites in how they deal with things.

1:24:04And what I did with my life, I found in love with the fact that she wants to save money. I mean, most people want to just waste it. And she doesn't need to. And gradually over the years, and it's taken, you know, we've been together 25 years. It's probably taken at least 15 of those years to get her to open up a little bit and not do those things and have her be adjusted. His childhood, his life, his upbringing has made it be this way. Yours is different. And that's why you guys are good partners. You're opposites. I would not say that we are necessarily opposites. because I am very frugal. I think that it's just as I started to make more money, I started to think, okay, well, how can I make my life easier?

1:24:40How can I free up my time a little bit more? How can I spend my money more efficiently? But even, you know, back in the day, I was maximally frugal, nearly to the same extent Graham was. Granted, Graham was making a lot of money off of YouTube and he was still draping a free towel he stole from his gym over his light because he wanted to diffuse the light. Like even to this day, I kid you not, I'll put B-roll over the screen right now. You guys can see we're in a rented car that I'm sure Graham shopped for the cheapest possible car. I guarantee you he did, which is fine. I actually support that.

1:25:10I'm totally cool with that. But we're in this rented car and Graham travels with a phone that's broken. You can't plug your phone in and charge it. And so what he does is he brings this whole apparatus, which is like this big. And it's both for the back of a phone. So you put your phone and stick it up to it. And then on the right side, it's for your Apple Watch. He doesn't even have an Apple Watch. And so he brings this apparatus with him instead of just buying either a new phone or just buying a USB-C cable to the MagSafe charger, that little circular thing you could slap on the back of your iPhone.

1:25:41Instead, he brings this whole thing, and it's not working when he's plugging into the car. So he's like, Jack, can you get your laptop out and plug it into your laptop? And I'm like, dude, a charger is$19. You know, maybe you could buy even like a cheaper one if you get a third part. And it's not only that, but I see it affecting, in my opinion, the quality of his life and some, you know, the quality of his decisions is diminished. when his number one thing outside of YouTube and work and his wife would be aquariums. He loves reef aquariums. And this brings him so much happiness. And I've seen it personally because I've lived with the guy.

1:26:13You know, we've known each other for several years. And his aquarium is his pride and joy. Well, there's a new aquarium he really, really, really wants. It fits in his space perfectly, but it's$10 ,000. He would be spending$10 ,000 on the one thing he spent$30 ,000 on in the past, but it gave him endless happiness, endless tinkering, endless just joy. And I see it. Every time I walk into his house, everything's meticulously placed. I see him tinkering with it. He's got these long tweezers. He's like replacing a coral plug. And he's so happy. He's in his zone. And he's hesitant to spend an extra$10 ,000 to get an aquarium that he knows he would absolutely love.

1:26:49Because honestly, I don't need it right now. And it's looking forward to something. Need it versus possibility. But you can have it. You can show it. Much greater quality of life. so you're like talking to somebody speaking a different language it's not that you're not frugal as you said it's just as a necessity frame you have a possibility frame by the way what i've done in that area i'm not suggesting you do this i like to every once in a while with somebody that i'm in business with a partnership whatever it is i like to do what i call a jackpot especially for people like him they're tight with their money you know jackpot is i think of something i know they really want i mean i had for example i had a guy that worked for me that was a not the president, but a Hyatt CEO in one of my companies early on.

1:27:30And he started telling me he's obsessed with Corvettes and the new Corvettes were coming out and he had a picture of the Corvettes. And he's like, someday I get a Corvette like this. And I'm like, you got enough money? Why don't you just buy the Corvette? No, no, no. It's too expensive. And plus they're now like$20 ,000 more in California because, you know, the first ones are out there. They want a premium for them and all this stuff. So I called him the Christmas Eve and I called him up and I said, Sam, I said, I'm so sorry. I know it's Christmas Eve, but we got a problem. I need to meet you at the hotel.

1:27:59Come meet me at this hotel right now. What's it about? I can't even tell you. Just get here. So he gets the hotel, right? And out front is the exact Corvette that you can't get anywhere in the country. And it's the most expensive one. It's the white with the red interior and so forth, the convertible down and everything else. And I meet him outside and he goes, that's that car. That was, what do you mean? No, that's the Corvette. That's the car. That's like, that's the ultimate car. I mean, that's the one that's here. And I said, wow, that's cool. I said, why don't you get in it? He's like, I can't get in it.

1:28:29I said, there's nobody here. I open the seat, you know, the door. I said, jump in it. He's like, I can't, I said, get in it. And I push him and he sits down like the car. He goes, I said, how's it feel? I goes, that's incredible. I go, here, hand him the keys, right? He started to cry. First it was just shock. He started to cry. He had plenty of money. I got more for doing that for him than paying him as much as I pay him, which is plenty, you know, I've given him bonuses that are different. I like to do things that, you know, it's a total shock. It's a jackpot. If you go to Vegas and you won every time, what would the experience be?

1:29:03If you pull down the first time, you went, oh, second time, oh. If you win every time, after a while, it's a job. You pull it, you make money. You pull it, you make money. The surprise is very useful. He's not going to make that adjustment on his own. I'm not saying you should go buy him his aquarium for$10 ,000. I like this. He's got 10 times more money than I do. But I will say this to you. My experience is, I don't know anybody. I learned this actually, you know, talking to a gentleman when I was 30 years old, who was a multi, multi, I don't know if you remember Franklin, the group, the Franklin group.

1:29:37But anyway, gentleman who was a billionaire, started with nothing. And his whole approach was, I've never met anybody who tithe. And he said, tithing doesn't mean just church. Tithing is they gave away 10 % or more of what they've earned for 10 years. We didn't become incredibly wealthy. I started tithing about 17 % of my income about 15 years ago. The level of wealth that I've generated in that time period is completely insane by my standards of anything I could ever need or want or desire. Billions, way beyond anything I can imagine. Wasn't even close to that before. You doing that for him is a wonderful gift.

1:30:13I'm not telling you you should do this for him. But if you did, he'll never forget as long as he lives. He'll have all the joy you said. You'll have the joy of seeing him having that joy. And you'll kick his ass again in the future for not making those investments. You'll have fun with that process. You'll laugh about the whole thing. And you'll develop more income because you're a possibility guy. He's the necessity guy. And that's just how it works.

1:30:36Graham Stephan:I get behind this, Jack. I like this. That's an interesting perspective is what I will say to that. Very interesting. I'll give you half. You put up the other half for it. I just don't think that if I did such an act of generosity of, you know, helping him get this aquarium. I'm not suggesting that would make him better. I'm suggesting you will create more wealth as a result of that. Because it doesn't come from where you give it most of the time. You give it over here, you don't get it back from there. It hits you in the back end from someplace else. There is a process, I know it sounds ridiculous, of if you keep adding value, generating value for people, and you do it where it isn't just a trade.

1:31:10It's not a horse trade. You're not whoring. I'll give you what you want if you give me what I want if it is a genuine just gift it's an interesting thing that happens if you do that on a regular basis because you will have a different abundance opportunity and things will come to you they really do all I can tell you is it doesn't usually come from the source that you think it's going to come from I fully agree with that and you'll be more entertained by him than you even are right now although I have to say this is extremely entertaining I can tell you in my own life you know people's one of the gifts I have in my life is I go out to dinner and half the time somebody comes up they bring the bill and say it's been paid for or that person if they paid for it.

1:31:45But my favorite ones are often when somebody will, you know, they say they won't even tell me who it is. Right? So it's like, they don't want to bother you. Just changed my life. I'm like, man, where were you guys when I was broke? I didn't have anybody. Now I got plenty of them. People do it. But it's a wonderful gift. Abundance comes with more abundance. There's just, it's a flow. And you can be the abundant one in this relationship, and you can lead him gently over time. may be your example if you want to. I'm not suggesting you have that responsibility, but you will benefit regardless.

1:32:15Graham Stephan:That's the thing I would argue. And what would you do in my position if I aspire for more abundance, but I have a fear-based mentality about being looser, let's just say? You're not going to do anything until you have to. You're completely necessity-driven. So come up with a necessity and you will. Like, for example, if your mother was sick and you needed an amount of money you don't have and you thought she was going to die without it, my bet you find a way to come up with that money one way or another because of your necessity. You would do that anyway, but you would do it because of the necessity frame.

1:32:48It doesn't matter if you didn't have it. You'd find a way. You just don't have that approach about abundance.

1:32:53Graham Stephan:So in that case, does it make sense for me, hypothetically, to go and get a really nice house and just splurge on it, put myself out of my comfort zone just to force myself to pay for it? I don't think so because I don't think you'll be happy because you'll be fretting about the thing constantly. Okay. It's like you need to do something consistent with your current values and rules. I would never say my values and rules are the ones that you should have. That worked for me when I was growing up and I was like, I want to, I grew mentally, emotionally, spiritually. But it's like financially, can you really grow in that area?

1:33:23Because I grew up so poor. And I remember saying to my friends when I was growing up, it's like someday I want to race camels between the pyramids. And so by the time I was 1920, I made a certain amount of money. I thought it was a lot of money then. And I went back to my friends. I said, let's go to Egypt. I'll fly us all there. We're going to race camp to the pyramids. It was like, oh, easy for you. What do you mean easy for me? Well, you would call this money. I said, well, no, I'm not asking you to pay anything. Yeah, but you got all this money. I said, well, I worked my hats off. I want to share it with you.

1:33:51And so for a short period of time, I got rid of all the money in my life, not consciously. I sabotaged everything because I really wanted love. And I grew up thinking my parents left each other because there was never any money. I thought that was the source. They would have left each other anyway, I realize now. So it's like after a while, though, one day I will come to thought, if you can be more spiritual, should you? Of course. If you can be more intelligent, should you? If you can be more giving, should you? If you can be more prosperous, should you? Well, the answer is yes, yes, yes, yes.

1:34:18If he's stupid not to be in my opinion. So it's like, I have the capacity to grow in any area. Let's grow in this area too. And I think for the two of you though, I'm not here to tell people how to live. I'm here to say, tell me what you want to do and I'll show you ways to get there. His way of doing it is going to be a little miserably along the way in control. If he went and bought himself a big house, I did that. I went and bought a big house. And I was like, this is where my family's going to grow up. I bought the Del Mar Castle. It was literally a castle built from castles in Europe overlooking the ocean in San Diego, California.

1:34:48And I was like, I didn't have the money for that. I literally leveraged everything I had to get, you know, a land contract for this place. And I had like, I forget, it was like$15 ,000 a month payments. This is like 40 years ago. Well, I've been paying $500 a month was my rent before that. And it's like, and well, that wasn't all. Every four months, there was an$80 ,000 and then$100 ,000 and then$150 ,000 chunk that I had to come up with. I didn't have all the money. The guy who sold it to me, he was going to sell it to one of these Saudi Arabian princes. It was during 1984 Olympics. And they came down and were looking at it.

1:35:24And I was like, I was leasing it just for a month. And my family's like, no, my family's going to grow up here. We're going to find a way. and so I figured out how to sell this buy this thing for this guy with literally no money down not bill money down forty thousand dollars I really checked for four thousand dollars he's like no no you're missing some zeros here but he found out how much money I had in total and we give him every penny and commit to all these payments and I figured out how to do it it was not comfortable by any way but I grew like you can't imagine it was incredibly uncomfortable but I said this is where my family's going to grow up this is going to be a metaphor for the abundance I have spiritually, emotionally, and my family.

1:35:59I want them to have that in terms of the environment they grew up because I grew up in a pretty rough environment. And it worked for me. It would never work for him. How would a necessity mentality grow a business? Like how, how could we do this? By him seeing what's necessary. The way you're going to influence him is showing him things that he'll see as necessary. You'll do it because it's possible. He'll do it because it's necessary. And there's many metaprograms, by the way. That's just one of them. Like there's some people don't get along because if I, if I showed you, um, yeah. Now at the Home Depot, receive 12 months special financing and free basic installation on carpet projects with LifeProof, LifeProof with PetProof technology, home decorators collection, and Traffic Master carpets.

1:36:38Bring a new look to your floors or give them a durable surface that stands up to life's tough messes. Get 12 months special financing on installed carpet projects right now at the Home Depot. Offer valid March 12th through March 29th, 2026. Exclusions and additional charges may apply. For licenses, see homedepot.com slash license numbers. I don't have a pen here I could show you. But if I showed you two rectangles, you know, up like this and one on its side, and I said, what's the relationship of these three rectangles? Some people say they're all rectangles. Some people say they're all written by you.

1:37:11Some people say they're all on the same page. In other words, they're all the same. Some people say they're all different. You wrote them at different times. They're different sizes, right? They were in different moments. So some people look at life and how it's the same to relate to it. Some people look at how it's different. And most people have a mixture. Some people say, well, two of them are alike, but one's different. Sameness with exception. And some people say, well, one's different, but two are alike. They look first for the difference, then what's alike. But if you get somebody who's a total sameness person with someone who's a total, we call it matching and mismatching.

1:37:45If you're a total matcher and you're in a relationship, somebody's mismatching everything, they drive you crazy. In a business, you have to shut the mismatcher up and have them open their mouth once the plan is laid out. You want them to mismatch them. You want them to try and tear it apart. But that's just another meta program. There's another meta program that has to do with, like, what convinces you? Like, do you have to see something to become convinced? Do you have to hear it? Do you have to read it? What's the substance? And then the next, the most important thing is how often? Some people hear it once and then they're convinced.

1:38:14Some people have to hear it three or four times. Some people have to hear it over a period of 60 days, 90 days. Some people, every time they hear it, you have to reconvince them, right? So there's these patterns in the mind that are really critical to understand because they help you understand how people are wired differently. And instead of being frustrated with them, especially if you have kids, that's when it'll really be interesting for you, they'll help you go, oh, no, they're wired differently in this area. And then you can find different advantages. Like in Chinese medicine, they have different archetypes that they use.

1:38:42Some people are water. Some people are fire. They have different qualities. And some of them you may not relate to. But when you understand these five archetypes, you're able to go, oh, well, that's the water in my life. You know, I get it. I'm not like that. But you begin to build an appreciation, excuse me, versus a judgment. So I think the more you can understand about human psychology, the more you can normally get along with people. You can have positive influence with people. You can meet their needs, which really makes them happy and you happy. and the more you can grow a business if that's important too.

1:39:14Graham Stephan:Thank you. This is honestly, I've been looking forward to this for a very long time. Well, thanks for having me. To be able to shake your hand and have you on. Well, thank you. Seriously. I'd like to promote with you guys, you know, once a year I do a program that's for free. I started during COVID and as they're shutting down all the stadiums around the world and I was like, you know, I have plenty of their businesses but this was my mission. So we built a studio with 50 foot high ceilings, It's a 25-foot high LED screen, 0.67 highest resolution. And I said, let's kind of put on a three-day seminar for free for people all over the earth.

1:39:48And we now have an average of 1.3 million people every year that do it. It's my seventh year doing it. And literally, we have 193 countries participating. It's just two and a half hours a day. So it's like a mini seminar for three days in a row. And it's called The Time to Rise. It's like time to rise up and reclaim your life. and it shows you like most people in new years they go out and they you know they set some goals or dreams and they don't fall through on them here you get clear what you want what's been stopping you you get a plan together and we do these transformational processes each day so it's like it's like going to a movie only the movie transforms your life for three days and uh i love it because we get people go online you know during the night and they leave videos of what they've done and you see people's lives transform from every walk of life people that do so my next one's coming up here January 29th through the 31st.

1:40:37And, um, uh, it's like the middle of the day, I think two 30, but we have people from every country in the world that participate and there's absolutely no charge. It's not basically free. It's completely free. Uh, but it's my way of trying to give back to a mass audience of people. And I love having a million people having these transformations each night and seeing all these changes that people share and it builds quite a community as well. I would highly recommend you guys look more into Tony Robbins if you have not already. And we're going to link down below all of the things that you just referenced.

1:41:05So you guys can go see that, that online seminar. You could also see any of his books. All of that stuff will be linked down below. Remember it's January 29th through the 31st. Then go to timetorisesummit.com, timetorisesummit.com. And they can register at no cost for them to be able to participate. And you'll get a chance to get an inside experience of this and no charge, but one that starts your year off right, which is really cool. Amazing. Thank you so much. Thanks, guys. We enjoyed the time. Cool. Until next time. You guys are great. Thank you guys for watching.

1:41:59Graham Stephan:Call it compliance or call it compliance. Get it? Join the 15 ,000 companies using Vanta to prove trust. Go to Vanta.com slash com.