Money Expert: This Wealth Setup Only Happens Once…And It JUST Happened Again! | Chris Camillo

25:21And I've been interviewing Sweetgreen reps at Sweetgreen stores and universally they're telling me that just within the last 10 days, it's already 20 % of their sales is this wrap. So it's still early on in the hype cycle in terms of content creators talking about this. But there were some big ones that came out this weekend and I think we're in the early stages of potentially a game-changing moment for this dead company, Sweetgreen. So if they even experience moderate success with these wraps, that could be a game-changer. Also, the company has a 23 % short interest. So this is a really exciting trade for me.

26:04I have a massive long position, Levered and Sweetgreen. It's still speculative because we're going to have to see how the next few weeks plays out. But based on what I've seen so far in the first 10-ish days of this product launch, it's showing all the signs of a viral product that could be a game changer for the company.

26:24Chris Camillo:Can you move the market? Because I saw Sweetgreen was up 7 % today, which coincides with you tweeting about it. Yes, I did move the market today. And so I think it's really, from an ethical and moral standpoint, and I pride myself on this, I will never sell into a move that I created. So I have a large position in Sweetgreen now. I think the SEC requires you to hold it for three days after you kind of do something that could move the market. I will hold this position likely for many weeks to see it play out. So I'm not selling into that move that happened today when I tweeted about Sweetgreen and the wraps.

27:09I'm actually pretty excited about this trade and I feel that it's real and could turn into something special, but we'll have to see how it plays out. So how much volume do you think got pushed to Sweetgreen because of your tweet? I think it were over double the volume today. The last time I checked and that is before the market closed. So at least double the volume.

27:28Chris Camillo:I don't think it would take that much to move Sweetgreen. Because I think they're a billion dollar market cap. But there can't be that much volume every day in Sweetgreen. There's not that much volume. And over the last couple of years, unless I'm talking about Amazon, who knows? I mean, I do have a few billionaires that I know that kind of follow the show. I have a lot of big funds. I have funds that I know manage 40 billion that follow the show. I have another fund that's$25 billion that follows the show. So we could theoretically, but those guys don't move that quickly, right? They don't see a show and just buy something.

28:05They might. They could.

28:05Chris Camillo:Imagine a fund manager who's like, yo, guess what Chris Camillo just said? We're going all in. I have, because at Ticker Tags, I spent five years on Wall Street kind of helping a lot of hedge funds understand conversational data sets. There are a lot of pods throughout funds that follow me, but they don't manage more than like$20 or$30 million each. Yeah. We have started to move markets. And like I said, I take that really seriously. I will never sell into a move that I created. That is just something that I will never, ever do. First of all, it's illegal. But beyond it being illegal, it's not something I would ever do to other investors.

28:44Let's just say you did. How much money do you think you could make? An incredible amount of money, hundreds of millions if I chose to do that. But then my reputation would be ruined for life. People would hate me. Uh, it's even if I didn't have any sense of moral value, like I, I, that would be a horrible way to live. Like terrible thing to do. I don't, I can't imagine anything worse to do in the white car world than to literally, you're basically just stealing money. You're stealing money. You're stealing money. I didn't say that he should. I'm just, I'm just, it's a, it's a joking question. Listen, listen, it happens every day.

29:21There are a lot of people that are finance creators that that is their entire strategy. I see it. It disgusts me. It disgusts me that they're allowed to do it and not being aggressively pursued by authorities. Like I hate it. And no, it's I'm the opposite of that.

29:37Chris Camillo:What are your thoughts on SanDisk? Listen, I'm along all the memory companies, right? So I bought the South Korean index. So like I'm technically I think invested in every single memory chip company uh do you remember the last random company I talked about on your show um yeah yeah Rogaku I mean you know that company's doubled since the show uh and I think I was like one of the first American investors to invest I had to have Schwab add the ticker uh you know they scan uh with 3d imagery a lot of these memory chips before they hit the hyperscaler racks. So anything across the infrastructure chain from artificial intelligence, I'm invested in, in one way or another.

30:23So even though I'm most excited about this AI efficiency wave that I think will hit in the next one to two years, and I think the market, once it realizes that that's going to hit, they will front run it. So it could happen any week or any month now, that doesn't mean that the second wave of the super cycle, which was infrastructure won't continue to benefit and rally. So I'm just invested quite honestly across all of artificial intelligence. This is the trade of my life. I think it's a trade of everyone's life. And that's why I've been so outspoken about it through every FOMO, like every blip of like trying to scare us out of the AI trade.

31:06I've been doing everything I could to kind of educate people on the fact that you might only get one or two of these in your entire life. So not to necessarily mirror my trades, but spend the time to do your own homework. If there was one time in your life to cancel other things and research and study and make big decisions, it's now. Because I don't know what happens after this. We might be in a prolonged period of time when it's very difficult to find alpha in the market after this big super cycle ends. And so now's not the time to just be laissez-faire. Like now's the time to dig in deep and make your bets.

31:54Chris Camillo:So how should the average person invest in 2026? This episode is in partnership with Airbnb. Graham and I are always traveling for the podcast. We were just in Nashville filming a few episodes there. And let me tell you, the food was incredible. I had the absolute best appetizers I've ever had. There was this dough ball and these steak skin potatoes. It was incredible. But let me ask you this. Do you ever think about your place back home when you travel? When you're gone for days or even weeks at a time, you can list your space on Airbnb so it works for you instead of just sitting empty. And if you've ever considered listing your space, but you weren't sure how you'd manage everything while you're away, well, that's exactly where Airbnb's co-host network comes in.

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33:14Chris Camillo:So how should the average person invest in 2026? I think we all have to come to terms with the fact that enterprise is going to continue to get bigger. We're going to redefine economies. I think the most exciting thing about this next wave of the AI super cycle is that it's likely to be broad based. meaning that I think unlike the last wave of the cycle where we had 15 or 20 companies that kind of benefited most and sucked up all of the energy from the stock market, so many companies will benefit from the AI efficiency wave. But part of the reason why they're benefiting is because they're lowering their cost.

34:06And a lot of workers are going to get laid off as part of this cycle and are going to have hard times. So one of the ways to defray your risk against that is to be invested in the companies that are benefiting from those efficiencies of having to have less labor, right? They become more efficient, their margins go up, they grow faster. In return, the market I think is likely to reprice multiples market-wide higher, meaning that we can see the entire market lift as a result of this if all the companies left in the market become more efficient. That's exactly what happened during the dot-com cycle, right?

34:51If you go back to the 1980s and 1990s, the average market PE was like single digits, and then it was like low teens, then high teens, and then it grows into the 20s. Well, it's not because the market's becoming overvalued necessarily. It's because the companies that comprise the market are now better. Those companies are growing faster. They're tech companies. They have 85 % software margins. So the dynamics of what the stock market is, is fundamentally changing over the course of time. And if you look at what AI has the potential to do, it's another full step up. So I think there's never been a time in our life where it's more critical to be invested, just to be invested.

35:38The degree that you want to take on active investment, that's a personal decision. But it's insane not to be invested in the market. My entire passion in life is to have every human in the world part of the investor class for this exact reason, because if you're not part of it, you're going to get left out. And it's a really scary thing. So in terms of investing in the market, most people watching this, most people following the channel are very safe investors. They want to invest in like the total stock market, maybe some bonds, some treasuries. It's a well diversified portfolio. you will come on here and say people need to be invested in risk assets.

36:23What percent, generally speaking, and how do you know what qualifies as a risk asset and what technically does not? I think when we talk about a risk portfolio or a higher risk, higher return bucket of money that you have, either inside of your account or preferably separated into a separate account, I think it's money that you're not afraid to lose. I think a risk asset means more concentration. So rather than being totally diversified, maybe you're making more concentrated bets. Maybe you're making bets in companies that have a higher risk reward profile. So, you know, maybe when open AI gets on the stock market or Anthropic, will these be the next$20 trillion companies?

37:06Maybe. Or will they go away? We don't really know. Right. And it might not make sense to invest from your normal portfolio into a company like that. But if you have a bucket of money that's designated to be higher risk, higher reward, then you're willing to take those bets. So concentration, using leverage, investing in higher beta companies, meaning companies that fluctuate more, that have higher upside but higher downside, those would be risk assets. and you have to think about that money differently. Otherwise, you'll be afraid to invest and when you do invest and things start to go wrong, you'll make bad decisions.

37:47You'll pull your money out out of fear, which is always the wrong thing to do.

37:52Chris Camillo:When is the last time you've been wrong? If you're a small business owner like us, you know that there are constant headaches between payroll, taxes, onboarding, compliance, benefits, and just trying to keep everything organized. It feels like there's something that always needs your attention. And the worst part is that all the admin work actually takes time away from growing the business. That's why we're so excited to partner with today's sponsor, Gusto. For those unaware, Gusto is an online payroll and benefit software built for small businesses. It's all-in-one, remote, friendly, and incredibly easy to use.

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39:30Chris Camillo:One more time, that is gusto.com slash iced with the link down below. Thank you so much. Now let's get back to the episode. When is the last time you've been wrong? You know, I don't remember. Like, I make bad trades here and there. Sometimes I decide to press an existing trade, and then the market comes out and does something or says something about the company I'm invested in, whether it was Bloom or Amazon, that temporarily loses me a lot of money. So there was a scary moment in the last year when my portfolio was down 70%, I think, close to 70 % total portfolio, meaning like my total portfolio was down 70%, which was wild.

40:20And yet I disagreed with the reason it was down. I think it was shortly after one of our shows, maybe during the tariff, right? Yes. Before the tariff stuff. And so I vehemently disagreed with other investors that were taking the market down. And it was really difficult for me when my portfolio was down that much to press yet again, which is what I did. Fortunately, as we know, it worked out, right? Right. Um, you know, but from that moment, my account's 10 X'd. So, you know, when my account was down 70%, I don't want to give out exact numbers, but I know the number in my head. My account is 10 X'd since that show of yours, which is, which is pretty wild.

41:07That was a low moment. And now I'm at a high place and pressing again. So we'll see, we'll see what happens. But But again, the thing that gives me anxiety is missing out on this mega wave that I think is about to hit. Because I don't know what comes after that, guys. I don't know if I'm going to get another opportunity to press this hard into something that I have so much conviction in. Like if Amazon triples or doubles from here as part of the AI efficiency wave, what's next? What's the next big driver for the market? I don't know. Maybe there will be something. But I'm telling you guys, these super cycles just don't hit that often.

41:52They don't happen every few years. They happen like every 10 to 15 years, maybe 20 years.

41:57Chris Camillo:Now, when it comes to valuations, though, I am curious because we've got a lot of bears in the market as well. We have Michael Burry, who said the stock market is minutes away from a bloody crash. Stocks are still hitting record highs. We have a K-shaped economy. And people are comparing this to the 1999.com bubble, that we're in that final run-up phase before everything collapses. What is your argument against that? And why could they be right? Okay. So they're basically saying that the market is overvalued, I'm saying that the market is uneven. I'm saying, you know, they have a big issue, I think, with the fact that 15 or 20 stocks are carrying the entire market.

42:48I look at it differently. Maybe 15 or 20 stocks are the only companies that have earned the right to carry the market. Interest rates were basically nothing in 2021. Money was free. That created a really bad environment. When money was free, everybody won, right? Bad stocks, good stocks. If you were a company, you can borrow money for free. And even if you didn't generate outsized returns, you were winning with leverage. So that was a really dangerous time. Now, interest rates are higher, which again these guys think is a bad thing, I actually think it could be a really good thing that interest rates are higher and the borrowing cost is higher.

43:33Because when you have a higher rate environment, what it does is it punishes bad companies and it rewards great companies. So let's say you have two companies, company A and B, and they're both generating 10 % on their money through whatever it is that they sell. Interest rates are 4 % for them to borrow money, right? Now, let's say that the cost of capital jumps from 4 % to 8%, which for a lot of companies, it has. For company A, that's really bad because now instead of making a 6 % margin on their money, they're borrowing at 4%, but they're generating 10 % returns. They're only generating 2%.

44:15So they're generating a third of what they were before. That's terrible. And that's how these guys look at the market. But how I look at the market is, if we have something as big as this AI super cycle and some companies are figuring out a way to increase their return on capital from 10 % to let's say 20%, which has definitely happened for a lot of companies, then the company that is borrowing money now at 8%, but now generating a return of capital at 20 actually doubled what they're getting in the market because now they're generating 12 % net. So even though interest rates and the cost of borrowing has increased, because of the AI super cycle, they are now still benefiting.

45:01So what this does is it really punishes the companies that are not able to grow quickly because of this new AI cycle that we're in and not able to expand their margins. And I love that because as long as you're willing to pick the winners, it's a winner-take-all market for now. But again, once the efficiency cycle starts to hit, meaning all of the companies, or maybe not all, but more than 20, will start to see the benefit of AI as they're able to operate more efficiently. So even if they're not necessarily growing that fast, even if their growth rate is slow, they'll be able to generate meaningfully more profits, I think we'll see a broadening of the beneficiaries in the market from AI.

45:46And that could be the next leg up. That's my thesis at least. And we'll see who's right. It might take a couple of years for that to play out, but I will say this, in the interim, if the market drops, it doesn't necessarily mean that they were right if the market pops back up, because we've seen the market drop now, what, five times over the past two years, pretty significantly in terms of the quickness of the drop due to one fear or another that ultimately resolved themselves and turned out to not be correct. And how could you then be wrong with your predictions? Like what is the strongest argument against what you just said?

46:26Yeah. So I think the thing that worries me the most is this gap between the AI efficiency wave when every company starts to lay off employees to operate more efficiently and the time when they realize that now they can start to grow again by expanding their company or when other people step into the market and create new companies and new industries and that employment gets redirected in newer, better, higher paying, more creative jobs. I can't fully assess how large that window is going to be, that gap. And if the layoffs come in too big and too quickly, and CEOs and entrepreneurs and the government doesn't come in to kind of patch that gap or redirect employees to new industries and new companies and expansion, that could create a pretty meaningful recession that would hurt the market at large.

47:33That's the number one thing that would keep me up at night as an investor that's heavily levered long in the market.

47:39Chris Camillo:What about treasury yields, though, going up to the highest level since 2007? I think the 20-year or 10-year was as high as like 1998. I like it for this reason I already gave. I like it because it punishes losers and rewards winners. But what do you say for the investors that start to question, wait a second, if I could get theoretically, let's just say 6.5 % on a 30-year treasury, maybe I'd take some profits from the stock market and put it in a treasury instead. There becomes a point where it just disincentivizes investment in companies. Why would you take the risk? Because I've seen some where it says the risk reward of the S &P 500 is now negative when you account for treasuries paying 5.5%.

48:24Graham, everything that you're saying is historically true.

48:31But what we're going through right now is not, we've never seen it before, right? This sort of growth. So yeah, that would be a real issue if we were just going to hop along and grow at normal rates and the market was going to be the market. But we have something that's about to hit and redefine what every economy on earth looks like. We're about to see efficiencies that we have never seen in the history of mankind. We are about to see every company on earth become meaningfully more productive than they thought was humanly possible five years ago. I think that people are looking at this the wrong way and that But AI is like the main character in this story, and interest rates are just like a sideshow character, right?

49:25And we're paying attention to the wrong thing. So in a normal environment, you're correct. Historically, you're correct. Interest rates go up. You can generate more from your money in a safe environment. Why would you want to take the risk to get an extra point or two? but I don't think you're taking the risk to get an extra point or two. I think you're taking that extra risk to be part of what is the most interesting, high growth, efficient capital market that we've ever seen in our lifetime. And I think that's going to last for at least a few more years. I don't know where it goes after that.

49:59So this is just not a normal environment. And I'm not treating this like the nineties or the two thousands or the 2010s. I'm treating this like something special because in my mind, that's where we are right now with artificial intelligence.

50:14Chris Camillo:How do you think Kevin Warsh is going to approach that situation? I don't really care because like he's not a king. There are 12 board members that get the vote. He cannot do anything that is meaningful enough to scare me because ultimately I don't care about a quarter of a point here, a half a point there, when I'm looking at companies that are going to double their productivity, triple their productivity. Again, I think people have lost the narrative. I don't care about a quarter point. I care about a warehouse that for the first time in 60 years is going to operate 15 % more efficiently. Because what that is going to do to that warehouse's bottom line is meaningfully more important than what a quarter or half point interest rate move is going to do.

51:11And again, I understand why people are so concerned about the Fed because it's all we cared about the last eight or nine years. But that's when the Fed was the story, right? Yeah. When you could lower interest rates and have every company on earth just borrow free money, I get it. But that's not where we are now, guys. Dude, what's happening? and it changes every week. I mean, you saw what Citadel CEO, Ken Griffin, in not so many words, he realized that AI is basically now able to do everything that his company does, which is insane, by the way. He manages one of the most sophisticated financial institutions on earth.

51:53And he's saying that AI, it's not just that it can do it, but it can do it in a fraction of the time better than his employees can do it. And he's shook because he's finally realizing what's about to happen. He's seen a lot. What blew my mind is that he wasn't shook 12 months ago when I was shook by this. And this is what's so fascinating about this market. It's so inefficient. I was on a plane ride here. They're having the commercial real estate annual convention in Vegas. And the entire plane was full with CRE bros, but they're older guys though, right? They're in their fifties, sixties. I'm looking around going, these guys control so much wealth.

52:38The collective amount of companies that they control is insane. And I bet outside of maybe using chat GPT here and there, they don't even have a clue what AI can do for their company. And it's like, we're still not seeing it yet. As a market, we're not seeing it. If Ken Griffin could come out and make a statement that he should have made a year ago, if he was just properly paying attention, then how about everyone that's underneath Ken Griffin? Again, guys, he manages the most sophisticated, biggest fund in the world. And he's just realizing this like this month.

53:18Chris Camillo:But doesn't that also mean that the average person sitting in their living room could have the same capabilities as Ken Griffin? Yes. That's what's the game changer. And so like everyone's so concerned about the massive job loss that might or might not be coming. I'm concerned as well, but no one is equally hyped about the unlock of millions and millions of idea people around the world who for the first time in human history can execute their idea for pennies on the dollar. So anything that lives in your mind, any industry, any company, any solution to any problem on earth, we have lots of people that have ideas of how to solve problems.

54:07Historically, there's been so much friction to actually create a real viable solution and deploy that solution into the real world from that idea that was in your head. And for the first time in history now, we're removing essentially all of the friction. What is going to be created over the next 20 years? What new industries will pop up? I can't even imagine. We're trying to define the AI moment with what we know. And that's the wrong way to look at it. Because truthfully, we're going to look back at 20 years and think we were dinosaurs in 2026. Economies will change. Everything we know about business, about enterprise, about valuations, about assets, about growth rates, all of that is going to radically change.

54:59And the moment is now to place your bets and be part of that or be left out of that. And yet we're concerned about a quarter rate interest rate hike. I love it that you guys and everyone else is concerned about that because that's a tension that you're not putting towards figuring out what companies will benefit most once this efficiency wave hits in about a year, because that's where I'm focused. And I that other investors are not focused there because they are going to hit that game late. I'm hitting that game now. So what opportunities do you think are available then for the average person outside of investing with the new efficiency wave, with a lot of layoffs potentially happening with these companies being able to operate at lower costs?

55:45What kind of opportunities should the average person be taking advantage of?

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57:54Because the majority of business owners, the majority of executives outside of the biggest companies in the world are super intimidated by AI right now. And they're just starting, I think over the next 12 months, they're going to come to terms with the fact that they can't avoid it anymore and they need to embrace it. If I was just a regular person, I would spend six months becoming a top 1 % person in AI just by self-learning. Then I would go to where wealthy business owners hang out. I don't care if you're going to conferences like this one in Vegas right now and go to the hotel bar and literally just start walking up to old guys that are likely business owners or C-level execs, introduce yourself and say, I am so-and-so.

58:43I just spent six months becoming hyper-proficient at being able to utilize bleeding-edge AI tools to solve problems with AI. And over the next three years, your business is going to have so many issues, and I'll be able to solve those issues for you for pennies on the dollar. I don't know how many people you have in your company that are hyper-proficient right now in the AI world, but I am, can we talk? And I would have that conversation over and over until one of those guys goes, I don't even know what I'm going to use you for, but we are hiring you next week. It's so funny because every single person that we ask this question says the exact same thing.

59:26It's not just you, it's Grant Cardone.

59:29Chris Camillo:Yeah, we had Grant Cardone. Did you see that tweet on X? got over a million views of him saying if you want to make a million dollars a year all you have to do is find 10 people that will pay you eight thousand dollars a month to implement ai in their business that's a million dollars a year but guys i said the same thing on your show and got four million views in two days on x or the same statement i said you you make that's maybe where grant got it from that's probably he stole it from me i think he stole it for me because, yeah, because, because what, what I said was that you can make half a million dollars a year.

1:00:07Okay. Uh, basically doing exactly that. Just, I said, you go into a company and you say, give me one problem that you have. And the problem could be as simple as we're missing phone calls every night. And because we're missing those phone calls, cause we close at five or six, they call one of our competitors, create an AI widget to answer those calls, figure out what the issue is, immediately send responses out, inform the entire company. So the next morning you already have a lead sheet, you're already engaging with that customer, and you never lose that customer. You could potentially increase a company's revenue by 10 or 15%.

1:00:47Small businesses, HVAC companies, plumbing companies, doesn't matter what it is. you can just go company to company and say i'm going to fix simple problems like that for you put them on a monthly retainer and make half a million dollars a year just having 10 clients just having that's it that thing went viral next because no one believed me and everyone all the haters came out and said it's not that easy to create ai widgets this agentic ai is not that easy you're lying to people and it's your and that's why it went viral give me an example of what you're talking about i was in hawaii uh doing this film shoot for the alpha school which is an AI school in Austin with this guy, Bill Perkins.

1:01:23Bill's crazy. I love Bill. Do you know Bill? Yeah, we had him on the podcast. No way. Okay. That guy is crazy. He is an energy trader, but he's kind of like a nerd too. And we're sitting on the edge of a cliff watching surfers after the shoot. And he's telling me he has these 12 AI agents that can do anything from his cell phone. And he's really proud of the fact that he created this system to basically, Look at any website or piece of writing in the world and synthesize it to be much better, to show you where you're miscommunicating, you're doing things the wrong way. He's like, give me the worst website that you know of.

1:02:05And I gave him a friend's website. He's like, he put it through his filter and he's like, this website rates an F. Do you want me to show you what the website should look like, what it should say, how it should be structured? I said, sure. He put it through. And I was like, wow, that is an insanely good website. And everything that he told me made absolute sense. The website actually is more functional now. It communicates more proficiently. He's like, do you want me to build you that website in the next 45 minutes using my agents? It's like, that's not possible. It was built on like WIC or WIZ.

1:02:39What's that like website company? He goes, get me a login. Just get me the login. 45 minutes. I'll have the entire website reconstructed. I got him the login. He starts speaking to his agents on his home computer back in Austin, which is where he lives now. And he's just like, hey, I need you to rebuild this website to look like this now. And it wouldn't do it at first. It was like, well, I'm not going to hack into that person's website. That's immoral. He's like, it's not immoral. I'm here with his friend right now. He just got like, you know, he has a little argument. That's the issue with where we are in the AI world right now, but he eventually convinced it to do it.

1:03:1945 minutes later, it read the entire manual for how to code in that website's coding for that company, Wix. It's called Wix, right? Wix. Wix. And it reconstructed the website entirely from the ground up, and it works perfectly. So in less than an hour, he took a terrible website, essentially redesigned it both in terms of its architecture and its communication layers and then rebuilt it from scratch to be a fully working site in under 60 minutes from a mobile phone sitting on the edge of a cliff watching surfers speaking to his agentic agents on his

1:04:07Chris Camillo:home computer in texas did he set that up himself or did he hire someone else to do it for him he he set it up himself. Wow. And I kind of believe him because he was really sharp when it came to this stuff. But listen, he's just one guy, right? And he's like doing a lot of different things. He's not even, he's not a developer guys. He's just a regular guy. And so like anytime says, someone says you're lying, you can't do that. It's not that easy. Well, you can go through your life skeptical or you can figure out how to do it. And let me tell you something. We are about to like diverge into two sets of people.

1:04:45Those that are continuing to believe that this isn't real, or it's too hard, or it's not as good as people say it is. And those that are going to find a way, those that are going to find a way to create businesses, those that are going to find a way to do something special with AI in their career, to start a company, or as an investor, once they realize that we might never get this opportunity ever again. Why do you think podcasting has a lot of legs because I feel like people would automatically think that you're going to have AI hosts. The information that you want is going to be easier to access on an LLM or, you know, Chagipiti or whatever, as opposed to listening through a three-hour podcast where maybe they talk about something you don't want to hear about, where you can dictate the conversation with an LLM.

1:05:28Why are you so bullish on podcasting? And you're investing a lot of money into podcasts as well. Well, I'm investing the next five years of my life into this new project that's basically trying to incubate the next great podcasters. And the reason why I'm doing it is I think the world's, we will have both. I think if you look at history, anytime we've had a jump in technology or innovation, the world has embraced it. At the same time, the world starts to really value what was left behind. And I do think people will embrace AI. They will embrace technology. I think we will have digital relationships with AI will be a really big deal, whether we like it or not.

1:06:17It's good for you, Jack. But I also think that being a differentiated human, a human that is actually able to differentiate themselves from this new AI world is going to be more valuable than ever before, because we're going to want both. We're going to thirst for that true human connection in an AI world, because we will be forced to use AI for numerous reasons, for almost everything that we do. Uh, but when it comes to real humans and that sense of connection and humanity for the humans that are able to kind of break out of the matrix and to have a degree of creativity, to have a voice that is so bold and so unfiltered and so raw that will become so special in an AI world.

1:07:16Chris Camillo:Who's to say AI just can't do that and be a little imperfect, be a little embracive, stutter a little bit, misspeak? I think maybe AI will do that, but I think at least for a while, we will so appreciate that authenticity of human connection because we can only embrace so much change at a time as humans, like our brains. Think about it, guys. Like, have you not, like, look at where we are in terms of anxiety right now, depression. We're on our phones all the time and we hate it, but we can't stop it, but we hate it. So we try to put our phones down. You see all these establishments now going no phone.

1:07:57So there's clubs and bars and all these places where you have to give your phone in. There's a place called Powder Room in Austin. I just went there a few weeks ago with a friend and you have to turn your phone in before you go there. It's amazing. Everyone has like heads up, looking at each other, talking to each other, connecting. I have absolute confidence that the value of differentiated humans and that human voice will go up over the next decade, not down. And so for me, like I live in an AI world. I study AI all the time. I thirst though for that human connection myself, right? And I do think there's huge opportunity for humans right now to be able to create that brand, to create that narrative, and to really develop themselves as humans outside of the AI matrix that we're about to get caught up in.

1:08:53Chris Camillo:The hard part, though, is differentiating because if it's getting better and better and better, I watched a video today and it took me maybe 10 seconds for me to realize that the host was AI just because it was really, really, really good. And then I noticed the mouth movements were not like as perfect as they should be. And it was an AI video. But I really want there to be like a like a PSA grading company that puts a stamp on everything that's not AI. and that way you could kind of filter the internet through like these are the real videos and these are ai but graham you already know that there will be we don't know what the company is we don't know exactly what that process will look like or what the tech will look like but that will happen it's a guarantee that will happen it has to happen it has to happen for trust and i'm willing to take a huge bet that we're not going to become 100 % artificial 100 % of the time.

1:09:50If that's the bet I have to take, I'll take that bet all day long because I know how humans are. We need that sense of humanity. We need that sense of human connection. It has to exist. And the further we dive into this AI world, the more special it will become. But by the way, it will become more difficult. If you're a creator three years from now, you can't just phone it in, right? You actually have to have unique, bold voice that's special. You have to have that interpersonal relationship with those that follow you. You have to go above and beyond. It's going to become a really difficult thing to pull off.

1:10:29But for those that are willing to put the time in and pull it off, I think the value on those humans will be exponentially higher than they are today.

1:10:39Chris Camillo:Well, maybe that's why live events or certain in-person places will do better. I think live is just part of it. But live is just the validation that there's someone there beyond the digital. But when you're watching someone and you know they're human, like the mistakes that they might make, the things that they might do. It's just like, it will always be different. I'm sorry. It will always be different, at least for our lifetime, I think, or for the next 10 or 15 years. I'm really comfortable making that bet. And it's something that humans should value because it means we were not left out of this.

1:11:17And by the way, I am absolutely confident that while it might be painful, this whole transitional window that we're about to go through where a lot of people get laid off, maybe. On the tail end of that, this will create more projects. It will create more opportunity to solve more problems. And we will have a supply demand issue with humans, meaning that we are going to have, I think, the lowest unemployment rates that we've ever seen in 10 years, because we will not have enough humans for the amount of industry and things that we want to do in an AI world. Speaking of unemployment rates, what do you think about these huge lines that have formed outside of the swatch stores?

1:12:03Great question. So I was on the plane holding the swatch bag because I got one. Okay. And the flight attendant was like, tell me about the whole experience. And she's like, why did so many people care? And I said, people cared because we have very few points of commonality and connection anymore. So when something happens and we're able to actually have that level of connectivity with each other and do something together, it's special and we value it. I mean, listen, it was on our text thread. I had five other text groups where that went viral. And it was so fun for us all to talk about something.

1:12:45And most of them are guys, right? We all know watches. We talk about watches, right? It's so, like, we don't watch the same TV shows. We all listen to different music. There's a billion creators and everyone follows their niche. It's so cool when we have these viral moments. and as dumb as it seems, people were going to show up at a mall that day and know that there were a few thousand other people that were with them and it was going to be an event. It was going to be a moment with other people and they didn't know how it was going to play out, but they just want to feel something. We all want to just feel something that's real.

1:13:24How much of that is scalping though? Because I imagine, I mean, you got your hands on one, which I haven't seen yet. Did you bring it? Yeah, I have it here. Yeah, absolutely. Go get it. Okay. So this is the bag. I have not yet seen this, but I imagine, you know, you weren't waiting in the line. You probably paid off a scalper who was trying to get a cheap order. I tried to get a TaskRabbit person to wait in line. No one was willing to wait in line before 830. Have you opened this or no? I opened it. You know, I brought this because every time I do your guy's show, am I the most frequented guest on your show?

1:13:57You might be. Am I the equivalent of like the guy on the late night show who comes on all the time?

1:14:01Chris Camillo:This might put you in the running. Okay. So every time I run into an iced coffee hour fan, they are so sweet and so kind to me that I wanted to like bring something fun for them. I was hoping you guys can just give this away, maybe do a comment raffle or something. Oh, really? Yeah, that's why I did this. I literally did this because I was coming on the show. I don't wear watches. I don't want it, but I was going to get one because I figured your followers would probably appreciate this. and so there weren't that many scalpers i looked for them that day of i found one kid on facebook marketplace that was willing to sell this for two thousand dollars and i bought it i met him at a starbucks so i didn't get kidnapped i don't know who he was going to be and uh yeah so it's like i want to give it to you guys i want to give it to your guys what if we did this if you comment we need a round six with chris with chris with chris we need a round six with chris the text will be right here no periods no nothing just we need a round six with chris then this could be yours for the low price of free i want to actually see this this is actually really really cool it's lighter than i thought it was going to be but it is still metal it's not plastic right it's It's bioceramic.

1:15:16Okay. It's not limited production too, right? Well, hold on. Now they said they're going to sell it for a few months. So it sounds to me like it's still semi-limited. They're not just going to run this for the year. I mean, okay, so let me tell you the story behind this one. The kid showed up at North Park Mall in Dallas at 1 a.m. And he was number 44 in line. When he bought that, they only had five left, he said. So they basically had 50. Imagine if you showed up online at 1.20 in the morning and still didn't get one of these. There were like 1 ,000 people in line. So right after he bought that, the police started macing people in line because people started realizing that they weren't going to get one and started shoving and stuff and they were trying to calm down.

1:16:04I mean, you saw what happened with the shootings and like wild, like nuts. how much would you pay for that right now Graham and you couldn't resell it

1:16:15Chris Camillo:I'd pay retail I wouldn't I think these stay at$2 ,000-ish I don't think they're going to make that many I could be wrong I bet they land at about $1 ,500 to$2 ,000 the hard part was that the moon swatch went up to about the same price came down settled in the$600 to$800 range for a while and now they're selling at or below. But it took three years. And now you can get whatever one you want slightly below retail. Didn't they sell like a quarter of a million of them? They sold a lot of them. I don't think they're going to sell that many just reading between the lines of this collaboration. Why wouldn't they?

1:16:58Chris Camillo:Why wouldn't they just say, we're doing a few months, get the demand, sell them out, and then bring it back. Yes, but I'm assuming that AP put a ceiling. This, listen, AP is a, that's a pretty rare collaboration. So I would imagine that AP said, let's do it, but we want to still be somewhat special. I don't know that AP would allow them to sell a quarter of a million. I could be wrong. I'm assuming it's going to be a more limited release than the Moon Watch. So why aren't you investing in the stock? I did already. The big move already happened. The social ARB mood on that collaboration was the second you found out it was going to happen.

1:17:42And then exiting last week, there was a second wave that could have happened if this weekend went really well. But this weekend was chaos. They had to shut all the stores down. People were really upset with Swatch. It's potentially a bad brand moment. We don't really know if it's going to ultimately be beneficial or not for Swatch. So I'm not sure there's really a big move left in the stock, but I got in it early. I tried all this stuff. What return did you get on it? It was not that much. I think it was maybe like 10%.

1:18:11Chris Camillo:But wouldn't you think that if this is a success, they'll repeat this with other brands? They could do an Hermes swatch. They could do maybe like a - AP Lululemon. Yes. They could just keep repeating this process. They're following the playbook, the Crocs playbook, right? And it's genius. It's genius. And I think that is the upside here. So what I mean by the trades over the trade for like this one release right now is probably over. But if Swatch proves this model out and we now have tons and tons of collaborations, I think it could be a game changer for the company. I don't care enough about it to like do the hard work and research to where I'm going to put an immense amount of money and leverage into that trade.

1:18:57But I think it's a worthy thing to look into if you're an investor and you have that thesis.

1:19:02Chris Camillo:What are you seeing right now with Pokemon prices? Because those saw a huge run at these last few months and it seems like things might be stalling out a little bit. So, you know, I sold the Pokemon conference to Ari Emanuel, Collecticon, last month. So I was in the Pokemon world deep for like four and a half years and now I'm out. My understanding of what happened to Pokemon is that about a year ago, there were a handful of crypto traders that decided to go deep into the Pokemon world. And they basically over invested in Pokemon over a short period of time and set off a chain of events that set Pokemon on fire.

1:19:44That's my understanding of where the money flow came into. What's interesting is it wasn't like they popped the market and it deflated. They set the market on fire and now it's just been rolling and rolling ever since. I don't know how that plays out for Pokemon over the short term, but I've always believed that Pokemon and IP similar to Pokemon for a collector is where it's at. Because unlike other collectibles, it's not set in a period of time where you have a peak, where the people that were really into that baseball player, right, or football player hit peak wealth and drive the market up.

1:20:31And then the next generation has less of an appreciation for like that player, like with sports cards. I think Pokemon's fascinating because they reinvent themselves for each generation. So it's one of these really rare collectibles that has cross-generational demand. So you can make a case that the Pokemon market could stay healthy and continue to drive forward for a very long time. I'm not saying it will, but there's certainly a thesis there that has data to back that up. So the Pokemon collectors might not be as crazy as you think they are. Because it's an interesting asset class because that IP can just get reinvented for each generation.

1:21:21What other things aside from Pokemon do you think have that level of stickiness? I think manga is fascinating because if you think about it, like that's how comic books became a sector, right? Because like all the IP that we love in superheroes, right? Like the comic books are like the manga for all of that IP. So if you believe in Pokemon and, you know, a lot of the related kind of IP in that world, there were only, there was like those a few years of that OG manga that for the first time is getting graded. So that's the arbitrage window. The arbitrage window is the stuff wasn't graded before.

1:22:08When did they start grading it? About a year ago? Is that right?

1:22:11Chris Camillo:Yeah, I think it was fairly recent. So once you start grading it, it becomes institutionalized. And now you have a really trustworthy way to value that as an asset class. So that's what I love. I'm not a collector, but if I was trying to trade a collectible, I would look for some shift to happen, some narrative shift, and that's what happened to Manga. It was uncollectible because it wasn't gradable. Then it became gradable, so now it becomes collectible and it becomes an actual asset class that investors can say, this is an 8.5 or 7.5, and we have data, I think that's the move. I don't know how much longer that goes on for.

1:22:57I've seen like a tenfold increase in pricing over six months, six or seven months.

1:23:01Chris Camillo:You know what the one I really want is a vinyl record, original, unopened thriller. I think that would be so cool. That would be cool. I've noticed now, this might be another social arb to some degree, Michael Jackson is making like this huge comeback. Big time. Huge. Everyone is now obsessed of Michael Jackson. I'm getting TikToks of him, recordings. I think there's something there. But is it durable? I mean, I get it, but like, what's the narrative that would lead you to believe that Michael Jackson will get more popular over the next five, ten years? Nostalgia. I think the Beatles will beat Michael Jackson.

1:23:45But nostalgia shifts, right? So like 80s are hot right now. 90s are hot. There will become a point in time when the 2000s and the 2010s become hot. And the people that are most interested in the 80s and 90s are people that experience it firsthand like me. I'm obsessed with it. Like this whole thing with the Pizza Hut guy that owns a bunch of Pizza Huts and he's converting them into 80s Pizza Huts. I'm obsessed with that. Like I think that's the coolest thing ever. um we eventually go away and nostalgia shifts over time and that's my whole issue with collectibles you have to be really careful or if you want to like trade collectibles you have to catch them on the upswing as they hit their peak because look at what happened to the car market right the old guys that like the muscle cars and then they came down and now the cars that are like popping are the 80s and 90s cars right eventually it'll be the 2000s like you're good you got ahead of it, like those early EVs at some point are going to crush.

1:24:52Chris Camillo:I hope so. Any day I'm hoping that Tesla roads. The problem is if you sit on it for 20 years, your cost, that's just like capital that's not being utilized and not growing in other areas. So you have to time it right. It's all about the time window. Eventually you'll hit, but if you have to wait 20 years, that's going to suck unless you just get enjoyment out of looking at it. What is your most controversial investing opinion that people would disagree with? I think almost anything that comes out of my mouth seems to be controversial as it relates to investing. The fact that I don't ever look at stock price or try not to, and I don't care what a stock is trading at.

1:25:35I don't care about fundamentals. I don't care about technicals. I don't care about anything other than one piece of information that I think is going to meaningfully impact that company that other people underappreciate. So I basically buy a stock when I think I've come across something that other people haven't noticed yet or don't fully appreciate. And I exit the position as soon as the world comes to appreciate what I did when I entered the position. So I call it like the point of information parity when the rest of the world sees what you see. And when you invest in the stock, is that an information imbalance, right?

1:26:17So it's super unconventional. It's like, I call it social arb. Some people call it attention arb. I just try to identify things a little bit quicker than other people. That's it. And really the best way to do that is by removing yourself from all of the noise, all of the Fed noise, all of the macro noise, all the political noise, all the noise of what influencers are talking about and on the market every day. So like people just don't believe that you can do that and not care about PE or revenue or fundamentals, not care about technicals, not care about anything and actually make money. What IPO are you most excited about?

1:27:02anthropic what do you think about this spacex ipo i don't this is like such a raw topic for me because i invested in spacex at 33 billion and the fund that i invested in claimed to have run out of money to pay their legal bills in california at 220 billion and forced us out of the stock They sold the fund. And I think it's because they wanted to get their carry because they immediately said, well, there's another fund we're working on to rebuy SpaceX, blah, blah, blah. It's more cost efficient. I got pulled out of SpaceX at$220 billion. And it really upsets me now watching this IPO because my plan was to always hold it through the IPO.

1:27:49Chris Camillo:Now you did make like 8X. Yeah, but it would have made a lot more. Right. And I was so upset at the time. I just like I was like, I'm not I'm not reinvesting because I had to pay all this carry. So I would have had less money to read. So it's basically like I got screwed. And like out of spite, I wanted nothing to do at SpaceX at that point. And here we are. But aren't you seeing right now a lot of secondary shares? They're saying that like, hey, maybe we're not going to honor that. This secondary share offering might not be real. Are you worried about any of them? I see that stuff. I think that's just to dissuade people from doing more of it.

1:28:30I don't think that Sam Altman or Elon or Anthropic are actually going to go to investors who invested through an SPV that was maybe unauthorized and say, we're taking your shares back. They don't want that PR hell. It's the wrong thing to do to the investor because it's not the investor's fault, right? Most of these investors didn't understand that. So I don't think they're going to actually do any of that. I'm invested in a few of those deals. I'm not concerned. SpaceX, I don't know, guys. I'm not going to buy the IPO. So I'm not saying it's a bad investment. I'm just not interested in it. I don't have any alpha on SpaceX that's special that the rest of the world doesn't already know.

1:29:19And I don't make investments unless I know something that I think is meaningful that other people underappreciate. What do you know about Anthropic that other people don't? We don't have that many models, first of all, right? If you look at what Anthropic has done over the past nine months, the biggest issue with Anthropic is they had issues monetizing. They had a really good model, but OAI was monetizing really well. Now Anthropic is monetizing unbelievably well. They've won the trust of enterprise. OAI is also going to be really big in enterprise and so is Google. But Anthropic is a company that has been really prudent.

1:30:05They have a founder that is not as hated as Sam Altman, right? Is not as controversial, you always Sam Altman. And I just think what they're doing in enterprise is disgustingly amazing. Like the traction that they're getting across enterprise at a global level is wild and it's really sticky. So there's just not a lot of competition for what they do. They're going to end up being one of the three big players globally in terms of models. And they're going to have a tremendous amount of leverage that comes with that.

1:30:41Chris Camillo:Do you have any opinion when it comes to Bitcoin? No opinion. I had the same opinion on Bitcoin that I've had for the past eight or nine years. I have some of it. I think for the most part, as wealth transfers from old people to young people, young people are more likely to have some of their investments in Bitcoin. So there's this long tail of increased demand in Bitcoin that over the course of the next 20 years should be a massive tailwind and Bitcoin would theoretically float up. I don't think about Bitcoin. I don't try to trade Bitcoin. I do think there are risks. There are risks with security, right?

1:31:27In a world where computing gets to a point where Bitcoin maybe is not secure anymore, that's a massive risk. I don't have enough Bitcoin that I care. I know you guys are big. You, Dave is big in it too. I don't, my YouTube partner. I would never be in it that big. I don't understand having more than a point or two or three in Bitcoin. Last time we had you on the show, we asked you who are the best founders of our lifetime. And your answer went pretty viral a few different times. I think you said Jensen. I think you said you said Vlad. Yeah. And he might've said Elon as well. Yeah. And I'm curious if anything has changed in the past couple of months with how, how quickly stuff has also changed.

1:32:12I think you have to give Amazon and Jesse here, right? And Amazon, a big nod to what he did. they were late to AI, which was scary for a company like Amazon. And they have now made the moves, the$200 billion of CapEx that they knew they were going to get crushed for that. And they did get crushed for that. The moves that they made with Tranium, Tranium now being one of the hottest AI chips in the world as a business. I mean, did you see the numbers behind Tranium, what they're doing? It's like 50 billion, I think. And it's astonishing what Amazon has done in the last 12 to 18 months to catch up in the AI race, not by having their own foundation model, but by putting themselves front and center, touching every single facet of everything that is AI, from the infrastructure layer to advertising to chipsets with Tranium to making massive investments in Anthropic.

1:33:26I mean, Amazon's investment in Anthropic could end up netting them $200 billion. Easy. When they IPO. Okay. So everyone was so worried that Amazon upped their capex this year to$200 billion. They might make$200 billion just on their anthropic investment. Okay. They now made a massive investment in OpenAI. And I know OpenAI is a controversial company, but listen, Sam just won the lawsuit today against Elon. That basically sets the runway for their IPO. Amazon just put 50 billion into open AI. And with that also attaches OAI to the Amazon ecosystem now. So they have two of the big three, Google being the third, basically tied into Amazon infrastructure in perpetuity probably forever.

1:34:17I mean, it was just a ballsy move.

1:34:20Chris Camillo:I saw Elon said the only reason he lost was because of a technicality of a calendar. That's not true. I've been following the case and essentially many of the things that Elon said he did or the relationships or things that he did with OAI in the early days, the documents proved something different. I'm not going to get too into it. I've just been following it for fun. The case was not nearly as strong in Elon's favor as I anticipated it would be. and I expected him to lose the case once I actually saw the docs and what went down in the early days of open AI. It was very clear to me that he was going to lose the case.

1:35:05I didn't speak about it because I would have gotten trashed for it. I'm not anti-Elon at all. I want Elon to win. I mean, Elon is a guy that's going to change the world for the better by making big ballsy moves in robotics and everything else. So like I'm not anti Elon, just, just objectively. I may, I thought a few weeks ago, there's no way he's winning this case. And sure enough, he lost. Um, but anyway, it sets the stage for massive IPO window for open AI that will also benefit Amazon. so I would add him to the list I think you have to and um you know I I've said I said it before like I think Amazon's gonna double from here I mean I'm not I'm not a price guy but I just think the runway's massive no one's even trading the AI efficiency way for Amazon yet it hasn't even started yet and how about robotics automation 25 years of building global infrastructure sure do you see what amazon just did uh with the last mile delivery where basically any company now can use them as their as their delivery company amazon like they're basically becoming a full fledged ups and fedex it's it's really astonishing um i just been i i've never been so excited about

1:36:32Chris Camillo:big cap company how are you telling your kids to adapt here because you're coming at an age where they're looking at colleges and career. How do they navigate all of this? Because anything they study today is going to be outdated in four years. My kids graduate in two years. They'll get to make their own decisions. But I mean, my kids are really into sports. My daughter wants to play volleyball in college, which is a conventional, you know, path. My son, I don't know. I fully support taking a year off now. I fully support not going to college. I think if you can get into a top 10, 15 school, you'll get enough of a network benefit that I would go to college.

1:37:14I would go to an Ivy just for the relationships, for those authentic relationships with people. If you can't get into one of those schools, I think the idea of taking a year off and experiencing the world and culture and people and having that college experience, if you can afford it, would be a really cool substitute for the social experience you otherwise would have received at a four-year university. Then you start your real life three years earlier than everyone else with virtually no debt, no college debt, and you have a lot of optionality. You can now go work an internship for someone, right?

1:37:54You can go learn at real companies. You can go to a trade school. You can do what we discuss, which is becoming hyper-proficient in AI and maybe just going and starting a lifestyle business where you have a bunch of clients, or maybe you just work for one person, one company as an AI-proficient person. I call them AI translators, right? I think every company in the world needs an AI translator. Someone just to be that medium between the world of AI and all of their problems. So anytime you have a problem that AI translator or team of AI translators can discern, can we fix that problem using AI at pennies on the dollar as opposed to how we were fixing that problem a few years ago?

1:38:38These aren't AI prompt engineers. These are people that can just properly assess the right tool sets and capabilities of artificial intelligence and degree to which it can be leveraged to solve problems inside of business and enterprise. I think that becomes one of the biggest careers going forward. I don't know what the world will call them, but that's what I call them. I would encourage my kids to slow down, not rush into anything, take a year off. Again, go travel, do that. Pennies on the dollar compared to what college costs, right? You're going to doing the whole Europe thing. And I never did that.

1:39:19I think that would be fun. Meet people though. Cause like at the end of the day, the one resource that will become infinitely valuable going forward are human relationships. So go out and meet people all around the world, your age, because you'll end up potentially working with those people or for those people. Right. And that's the one thing that's so special still. How do you get a job? Through relationships, authentic relationships. So go out and build a lot of authentic relationships. Then get training in the real world because no college is going to teach you what you need in the real world.

1:39:55I'm sorry. They cannot recreate those curriculums fast enough because as soon as they tweak the curriculum to be an AI-friendly curriculum, AI has changed again. So just like the whole concept of going to a four-year university, no matter how much they say they're keeping up with the times is BS. I would take an alternate path unless you get into a top 10, 15 school. And again, it's all about the network and relationships. It's not for the schooling. And of course there are paths where you still need to go to college, medical and various things. But that's the advice I have for my kids. I would be really supportive of alternative unconventional pathways for them.

1:40:39And I think as parents, we all have to be open to unconventional pathways. And I know that's hard, especially for boomers or even Gen X like me, because we're like, what, you're not going to college? No. I think not going to college is going to be the new going to college, where it's like you were smart enough to know that you shouldn't go to college.

1:41:05Chris Camillo:Completely agree with you on that. And you have the confidence in yourself that you are savvy enough. You know what I'm saying? Like that you are self-educated enough to know that college is not the right move. It's weird to say that, but I think that's where we're headed. I agree with that. It sounds like Naval Ravikant. He says, the way I test someone's intelligence is if they are living the life that they want to be living. Basically, not just being a sheep going to college because everyone else is going to college. but being able to see the playing field for what it truly is and navigate it to the best of their ability.

1:41:38And I'm kind of doing that with my own life right now. Like this whole next phase of my life is just cool stuff with close friends. And like, I'll only do business stuff if it's really fun and enjoyable and it's what someone I'm really close with and trust, you know? And it's like, it's a part of the reason why I want to work with creators with this incubation podcast studio in Austin is because I enjoy working with creative people. I enjoy working with ambitious people. I enjoy how hard it is. Like it's probably one of the hardest things to do. How many podcasters are there? Like 20 million or something?

1:42:14Like how many top 20? What's the statistical chance of incubating a top 20 podcast? Almost impossible. That to me, that challenge is what excites me. so and to get to take that journey with creative ambitious people I mean I'm at a stage of my life where like and I by the way I'm constantly talking to like these guys who sold their companies who are worth like 50 million to 10 billion almost on the daily now and this is the conversation I have with them and I have this and they look at me and they're like hmm I had one guy tell me last week He sold his company a couple of years ago. I think I'm going to go buy that bonsai shop that me and my daughter like so much.

1:43:06I was like, yeah, you're getting it now. You love your daughter and you and her love bonsais. Why don't you buy the shop? It's been around for 30 years in Dallas. Why don't you create an e-commerce model with her? Why don't you figure out maybe you could bring some content creators in, have fun with it, have it be like a newer generation, bring in like artificial intelligence for marketing and business ops. You can make that shop more efficient, more productive, more profitable. She could learn life lessons. And this is the thing that you and your daughter have been doing for years. How much joy would you get out of that?

1:43:41He's like, and it's like, so every time I meet with one of these guys, usually I'm able to convince them to kind of do more of what I'm doing. Cause like we all get in our zone where we just do the same thing. By the way, almost everyone I know is just chasing a bigger number. They sold their company. they had success so the number keeps going up and up and up i'm like dude what the hell are you gonna do with all that money like i don't get it i i just don't understand it like when at a certain point when you have enough friends that own yachts and vacation homes and fly private you kind of don't need to spend any of your own money anymore anyway because you're just doing their stuff you know like i don't understand what the difference is between 20 million dollars and 200 million i really don't like i don't know how your life changes between 20 million and 200 million

1:44:30Chris Camillo:i don't understand that's the difference between 600 grand a year and 6 million a year in terms of spending at three percent which would be pretty substantial but are you really going to be spending 500 000 a month like how that sounds like a job but but i'm just saying it's like imagine living on 600 grand a year or six million a year that's how it's a totally different little job to spend that amount of money. Like you want days where you just kind of hang out more money, more money, more things, more problems. That is so true with every single person I know. One of my best friends, I love him to death, but I make fun of him all the time because he has so many things.

1:45:10He has people taking care of the things he's always stressed out and like taxes and this and that, like just keeping track of all the things is a job at that point. So I don't know, man, I'm about simplicity and relationships and like really trying to figure out what brings you true joy and cancel out everything else in life. And I don't get the whole chasing the number that gets bigger and bigger. But the number is significant to a certain extent, you would say$20 million is probably that critical mass? I think$20 million is a good number. By the way, the number's different for everyone. I mean, depending on who you are, the number could be 40 or 50 or it could be five.

1:45:55So let's just say, yeah. At what point do you say, okay, like that number is way too large? I mean, I started hanging out with this billionaire who's just sold his company and he, I think, I think he's probably worth like six or seven billion. And I'm like, what are you going to do? He's like, the same thing. I'm staying on as CEO. And I'm not going to even say what industry it is, but in my head, it is a horrible industry to have to stay in. Because like, I've been doing it for 15 years. I'm good with it. Like, dude, don't you want to do something different, man? But like to each their own, right?

1:46:32To each their own. But I still, like if you're doing it for the joy, because you really like get off on like working in that industry sector. I think that's cool. But the whole, I haven't met a single person that keeps raising the number that is happier when they hit that number. Not one in my entire life. It just seems like such a terrible thing to chase because you think that number is going to get you something else. And that dopamine hit lasts for like five minutes and it's over. And then they're miserable again and chasing a new number to get God knows what. I don't even know. Again, I don't understand like after a few tens of millions how the hell do you spend that much money even the nicest restaurants in the world right like you can get it by a 25 000 torsia membership and like you can get to pretty much any restaurant like i am i like am i crazy or like what i agree with you

1:47:27Chris Camillo:that's all i think yeah you know flying private would be really like we're talking about like doing a trip and like, oh man, if we could fly private, that would solve a lot of issues, but that would be 50 grand. And like spending 50 ,000 would be irresponsible. But there's an amount of money that if we had spending 50K would just be like, oh, that's fine. The more important thing though is the Delta. Like what does it take to get from now to that point of being able to fly private? And is it worth it to sacrifice another 10 years of your life to then be able to upgrade from first class to private once every six months?

1:48:01You can't travel that much. Even if you're flying private, you get it. All these guys, they got like a jet card or maybe they own a jet. It's a million a year, whatever it is. Like if you're in the tens of millions, you can do that too. That's what I don't understand.

1:48:17Chris Camillo:Like, like what? Wait, so how much money do you have to have to fly private three times a year within the United States? Dude, that's. So you're probably spending 200 grand a year. Max$200 ,000 a year on the three round trips, max. It's probably a lot closer to like$130 ,000,$140 ,000 a year. So it's nothing if you have tens of millions, right? You don't need more tens of millions. You definitely don't need hundreds of millions to do that. The biggest thing I've seen is that people take ridiculous risk when they get a lot of money and then they go broke. They just go crazy. Or massive drug issues, depression, gambling, all the bad stuff.

1:49:03Let's just say all the bad stuff hits. So it's like, I think you're almost better off keeping it to a reasonable number so that you can actually relate to normal people in your life. Like, I think once you get into the stratosphere where you become, people become unrelatable to you, it actually causes a lot of anxiety and mental stress because you just can't connect. we talked about this sort of like like i think that human connection is extraordinarily important and it's something that we don't think about and with excess wealth you start to disconnect from from humanity even knowing you're worth that much money is a weird i think it messes with your head i really do i think it messes with your head so that's why i say just give it away let's give it away create a foundation give it away man i i by the way like i talked about this recently, foundations are so good.

1:50:02No more trust funds. Just start a foundation, put the money in there. Your kids can take a nominal salary, right? They get health insurance. You don't have to have attorneys approving stuff. Dude, foundations are the greatest. It's the most enjoyable thing I do. Every November, I get to write the checks and send the wires out. And I basically go out to my friend network. I don't know if I've ever gone to you guys, everyone who I think might be philanthropic, I'll do it this year for you guys. I say, give me the name. All I need to know is give me the name of a charity that you love, that you trust, that is relatively efficient with their capital, that's really making a meaningful difference.

1:50:46And I will wire the money out tomorrow.

1:50:49Chris Camillo:It's probably a humane society or something animal really. I do a bunch of, so, Well, I am getting more closely aligned. I talked to you guys with Beast Philanthropy. I went to Africa with Jimmy, and I know he gets a lot of crap for being too big. People don't think he's for real. Is he doing it for the wrong reasons? Dude, I've never seen a guy in my life work so hard and be so locked in to changing the world. Doesn't seem to have a lot of fun. It's not partying. He's just working. and he's so intense and he has this like master plan. But that's what he finds fun though. I know he does, but like - That's his version of fun is being able to work.

1:51:31Well, he has this master plan to like bring every kid in the world out of child labor and it's really sophisticated and it's so well thought out. I'm just like, dude, if the world saw what I saw when I was with him in Ghana, I was like, they would not be giving him so much crap.

1:51:49Chris Camillo:But how come the world isn't seeing him like that? Because he has so many eyeballs on him and he could choose to show whatever he wants to. It's human nature that when you see someone get that big, you start to pick them apart because we always assume a billionaire. He's a billionaire now, right? On paper. He's like a billionaire on paper. But man, does he not live like one? Okay. Like, I can't say the stuff that I saw him do. I was like, I couldn't even believe it. Could you tell us anything that you saw him do? he didn't even come back to the hotel one night it's just like staying out in the jungle dude i'm like dude you couldn't pay me enough do you know what he was doing in the jungle yeah i mean like he just he was a whole thing where he got there there's plane issues so they got there he's not flying private either you know that's the thing it's crazy just on a regular flight i think he's in coach dude it was wild um but he want to get more work done he didn't want to have to he want to get started earlier in the morning.

1:52:49I'm like, it's a three hour drive from the, from the city to the jungle where they were building their school and all their stuff. It's like, no, no, no. I need to get a good meal. I need to sleep in a real bed. You know, I'll, I'll take the drive. I'll take the drive back, man. Uh, but, but I love it. I, I think, I think we don't ordinarily see people that get to that level that actually care that much still about doing the right thing. So it's normal for us to be cynical. And that's, I get it. Listen, if I could say one thing, the guy's legit. He's legit. His heart is legitimately in the right place.

1:53:29I spent almost a full day just talking to him about what he wants to build in the future. And it was all noble. Like it was all like noble for noble causes. So like I'm going to be donating a bunch to Beast Philanthropy. I have for a few years now. I just have a high degree of trust in where that money is going.

1:53:49Chris Camillo:If he IPOs, would you buy his IPO? This is what's so crazy. And I don't want to talk specifics, but I am invested in Beast because I was one of the first investors in the chocolate company. Really? Yeah. So I think those shares have been converted to Beast Industry. And when I saw the valuation of Beast Industry, it's$5 billion right now. I was like, there's no way this thing is worth$5 billion. how is he going to grow this? And then I spoke to him for like, we spoke to him for seven hours straight about like strategy and where he's going with this. Like, dude, this is going to be a$20 billion plus company.

1:54:27Guaranteed. Like, I don't, I didn't want to say what he's doing, but what he's doing is so smart. You know how I talk about like, why would you start your own company when you could throw money at psychotic people like blood and Elon and Steve jobs back in the day that will literally not do anything else in life, but be laser focused and build like relentlessly towards that end goal. He's one of those people. He is miles ahead of everyone else in what he does. And I don't think anyone else in the content world is going to be able to keep up with him. so i just think the endless possibilities for how big he can build that empire well beyond just his own brand of himself and i don't even think he's really getting started yet that's what's so crazy that's what's so crazy i think it's like 29 right no he's younger than that 28 he's like 26

1:55:27Chris Camillo:no i think he's like 20 no he's definitely 27 or 28 he's like 27 he's not younger than me No, I think he's younger than you, Jack. He cannot be younger than me, Grant. Yes, he is. I still have like eight months to get to his level. So yeah, I mean - May 7th, 1998. There we go. So he is a little older than you, Jack. So five months. And much wiser. So like I said, without even knowing - Five months, wife. Without even knowing the business model, because I don't know if I'm allowed to give any of that away, like invest in the psychopath who's going to put 100 % of their life and energy into getting to that end goal.

1:56:01like dude I could not do what he's doing even for one week of my life and I consider myself an exceptionally hard worker I just can't I'm not built like that I just can't I gotta have a more diversified life and a whole lot of other things so yeah man I'm yeah I would I think I would I would invest in it I'm already in it all right Chris so you're now reviewing our portfolios I'll be handing my phone over to you right now that's my individual account as i also have a roth ira

1:56:34Chris Camillo:and a sep in there and the goal is to rate it out of 10 10 would be perfect and one would be awful

1:56:42dude this is like you said on a scale of zero to 10 i should write it yeah

1:56:51Chris Camillo:eight that's exactly what the money guys said didn't they no they gave me a seven i think seven and a half yeah yeah i mean listen you're young so i want to see aggressiveness and i see it um i want to see concentration around ai which is one of the only things that matters right now and i see it um you oh wait a second okay i see some etfs here with some big numbers in it i just want to make sure yeah it's mostly vug yeah it's an eight solid eight cool what do you think could be improved do any leverage on that i don't what's the upside downside of applying a little bit of leverage a little bit of margin you're borrowing money okay the way the world works is smart people borrow money and do smart things with it to generate a bigger return than the return you're paying someone else.

1:57:50You're smart, smarter than most. So why not borrow a little bit of money on margin? I don't know, 5%, were they 5, 6 %? And assume that you're going to be able to beat that five or six percent right start with five percent margin ten percent ten percent of your portfolio was gonna you worry about the market going down 90 you're gonna get zeroed out you're young i actually kind of agree with you if i'm being honest that's just for me though that's you don't want him dealing with margin though here's the deal i mean i've outperformed the market here's the deal i'm not no every year for the past probably four jack i'm not saying to go in with 40 to 90 % like I do, baby steps.

1:58:33Take a little bit of margin out. Just take a little bit. Maybe, you know what? Just because of you, I've got a little bit of margin. A little bit. And then that bumps me up to a nine. And get more comfortable with it over time. Okay. And just know the good days are going to be a little bit better and the bad days are going to be a little bit worse. And that's okay. Because you appear to have a margin of safety there that if you lose 10 % more on the bad days, I don't think it's going to kill you. Yeah, I would agree. And I do think this might even be a little safe, honestly. It is. But it was way better than I thought it was going to be.

1:59:09I consider my job to be high risk. And so when you would probably argue that it's not, I would say like the fluctuations in income suggest that it could be high risk. So I take it a little bit more conservative. It's not high risk. It's not. You're in control of your destiny. you're in a really stable sector, in a mature show, if you were working for someone else and had no control over your destiny and get terminated tomorrow and go from 100 % of your income to zero, that's high risk. I don't see you going from 100 % of what you have now to zero. You might have to back off 20, 30 % if you have a down year, sponsorships, viewership.

1:59:48I think you're in a really safe place professionally. I'll be a little bit more aggressive. okay all right here you go

1:59:59i don't even know what that is what wait what oh oh it's oh that's just that's just the uh okay i take it back wait how do i see the portfolio i have to click on the thing different accounts okay um i was like what is that some weird real estate thing that you're in I don't know what you're looking at. All right. There should be three accounts in there. Okay. Well, I'm looking at the big one. That's, I think they'll tell me everything I need to know.

2:00:32You love diversity, don't you? Mm-hmm. Damn. Where are your individual stocks, Graham?

2:00:40Chris Camillo:It's in the other account. Okay, I'm going to go with the other account. But you're not going to be... You'll like the stocks, but you're not going to like the amounts. Dude, you're not going to get a great grade for this. Okay, hold on. I do like the stocks. It's like, what's the point of even... what does he have in these stocks? It's just so minuscule relative to the crazy diversified stuff he has. See, I would be fine with just earning 6 % a year. If I could just guarantee log in 6 % a year for like 50 years, I'd be thrilled. Oh God. Can I ask you a question before I grade you? What is your, what's your investment objective?

2:01:24Chris Camillo:Preservation and slow growth.

2:01:30Chris Camillo:to me, I like just locking it in. That's his investment goal, but his financial goal is completely different. Okay, tell me about your financial goal. I would like 50 % more liquid. So this account, I want it to grow 50%. And then I would also, in addition to that, like a nicer primary residence at some point. So about that, that amount of money is what he wants. Yeah. So if we could double that. Basically double. Yeah. If you double that, I hit both of those. He achieves the next milestone to then push off to a new one. Because your financial objective is so conservative, I'll up it to a 6.5.

2:02:16Because I think you will get there with what you're doing. But you can get there so much quicker. Like you're smarter than that. You see things. and I would like to think that beyond your own financial goals, you could be doing something way bigger and you don't, you're young still, like in 10 years, you might come across something and be like, wow, if I had that much money, I could be part of this buying a sports team, who the hell knows what it is, right? So you have to look out for the things that you don't know you're going to want today. And I know you could be doing better if you took 25 % out of that diversified portfolio and invested in individual stocks, maybe the same ones you're in.

2:03:03I just think you have so much diversity in those ETFs. I think you'd be okay taking a quarter out and putting it in the individual stocks. I really do.

2:03:15Chris Camillo:I'm just not one for volatility. I can't stand it. When it's up a lot, I see the purchasing power of what that is. And my first thought is I got to trim. And I just see like when I buy an ETF, like the S &P 500, to me mentally, it's like, all right, I bank it away. I lock it away. It's there. It's separate. And so mentally for me, it's just like once it's there, I just kind of assume and I model 6 % a year. I think if you want comfort in your life, you're doing the right thing. I think also for people that are anomalies and you're one of those anomalies, I think you owe it to the world to be uncomfortable, to push yourself a little harder, to make more money, to do bigger things, to give yourself more optionality, to do things beyond your own comfort level.

2:04:06So if you took the approach that I'm suggesting and took 25 % and put it into the individual stocks that you're pretty darn good picking, I think you're going to have a larger pool of wealth in 5 to 10 years, more optionality in your life. And just knowing you as a person, I know you're going to do good things with that. And I would like to see you have more optionality. And I think you owe it to the world to be a little less comfortable personally with your finances in order to do something big for other people. That's how I think about it for myself. Like I, there are some times where I'm a little nervous, like, you know, year and a half, whenever that was with the tariffs, I'm like, I don't deserve just to like sit on my money and just sit on that gravy train until I die.

2:04:51No, I'm a special person and I could do big things and I need to make myself uncomfortable and take risk to make the money I know I'm capable of making to help other people. And listen, it's different for every person. I don't know what it's going to be for you guys, but I'd like to see you guys get a little more uncomfortable with your own finances. And by the way, I don't mean that for everyone. That's just for you two guys. for like the average person who just has a regular day job and loves their life and is being really productive and great for their family and all this stuff that might not be the right path for them but i do think it's the right path for both of you guys i'm with you oh i agree one jack fair

2:05:32Chris Camillo:and square there we go one uh last one is we have the tier list yeah so we have we have a tier list i don't know what does that mean what's a tier list you're gonna have these options of like s tier A, B, C, all the way down to F. Oh yeah, I've seen this. Yeah. Okay. So Amazon, obviously S tier because it's the number one beneficiary of the AI efficiency wave. So you'll move it. You'll just, oh, I need to move it. Click and drag. Okay. Click and drag it to S tier. Okay.

2:06:06Apple, I'll put C tier because they really have to prove themselves out over the next two to three years, they could end up miraculously figuring out a way to execute on AI and move up, or they can completely fall apart. And we might move beyond the mobile phone as our primary intermediary, in which case Apple could be in huge trouble the next 10 years. So I'll sit and see for now. Bloom Energy has to be S tier. It is the absolute quickest way for any data center to go live with energy. Uh, it's my number one pick for the last year, more or less, uh, GameStop F tier. I don't understand GameStop at all.

2:06:54It annoys me. I just don't understand it. They've underperformed the market for the last few years. They haven't really done anything. I don't think this eBay thing is going to work out for them. So sorry, guys. I know there's going to be a lot of meme people that will hate me, but F tier. Bitcoin, I'm going to put it in B tier because I do think as long as no one's able to crack Bitcoin and it remains this safe asset that you don't have to worry about losing, we have$100 trillion of wealth transfer over the next 20 years. And for every one gold bug, there's like 10 ,000 kids that believe in Bitcoin.

2:07:40I say kids in their 20s now, right? And I think we have a massive tailwind of everyone wanting to have 1 % or 2 % of their portfolio in Bitcoin. Or Graham, you're probably like mid to upper single digits now, right? 12th. Damn. That's a lot, dude. How can you sit here and tell me that you're conservative with this and diversified and have 12%.

2:08:03Chris Camillo:It's a barbell because I have way more than that in tax-free muni bonds and treasuries. Yeah, but there's tail risk that Bitcoin theoretically could go down a lot in a theoretical situation with the security stuff. To have 12%, that's like having 12 % in one stock that has a high beta to it, a very high beta to it. I think that's really risky, dude. I don't like that. I didn't realize when I saw your portfolio. Can I downgrade you to like a 5.5? You're back down to a 5.5. Yeah, but it could also double. Could, but I don't like it. 5.5. 8.5. How much would you trim it down to if it's a 12 right now?

2:08:49Chris Camillo:5. 5 %? I like what he says where it's like every single day you wake up, you're choosing to buy this amount, 12 % of your portfolio of Bitcoin instead of other things that... I don't think 12 is that much. Dude, let me tell you something. I hang out with some of the biggest crypto guys and they still have huge crypto positions, but they've all been diversifying into deep tech the last 18 months. Some of the biggest crypto guys in the world are all diversifying into deep tech, AI, robotics. That's a lot for a guy like you to have in Bitcoin. That just feels like a lot, man. I'm just being honest, but you do you.

2:09:29Okay. NVIDIA, I know they're controversial, but I still think they're going to be fine for a few years. And Jensen's an animal. You got to put them S tier, all the way up, S tier. HUD, same thing. I'm just going S tier now. HUD, come on. I think HUD will be the largest financial institution in the world at some point in the next 20 years. I think Vlad's one of the most ambitious CEOs in the world. I think he'll ask for forgiveness later. You know, Hood had a little bit of a dip here because crypto had a dip. But the fact that Robinhood did so well on earnings with that insane hit to the crypto part of their business tells you all you need to know.

2:10:18Even if crypto never really comes back, Robinhood's going to be okay. If crypto comes back at all, dude, I will be pouring into Robinhood would leverage like that's the first thing i will do crypto comes back uh sweet oh you got sweet green on here yep just for you right now i'm gonna put them on b tier because it's still not convincing that this wrap is going to be a grand slam but it's more likely than not that it will be a winner. I'm putting an A tier, moving up to A tier. That could change. I study the social media every day. So every night I read every comment on every TikTok video of a sweet green wrap.

2:11:04So if I start to see things flatten out or see the height die or see it reverse, I will immediately exit my sweet green position, just for the record. Oh, micro strategy, F tier. These levered funds in something as volatile as Bitcoin, I'm not even going to get into it. I hate it. I hate it so much. F tier. Coinbase, D, I just don't have a lot of visibility into how crypto is going to play out over the next 10 years. I think Coinbase will do fine because they do a lot of institutional stuff and they are the institutional kind of partner for Wall Street when it comes to crypto. But I think they'll have a lot more competition the next 10 years if crypto hangs around.

2:12:00Is TQQQ the triple leverage? Yes. QQQ? I love it. I love it. I really do. You know I spent a lot of time with Dave Hanson. I'm putting it, God, this seems crazy to put an A tier. I'm putting an A tier because we have this thesis that it is highly likely, highly likely to continue to generate 2X returns to the QQQ over the next 20 plus years, 25 years. So it's a triple leverage, but with the premium costs, it ends up generating about 2x over the long term. And while it does have tremendous volatility, we've run so many scenarios and it's a really, really rare scenario where it gets hit and gets wiped out.

2:12:51I don't even know if it's possible, but I'm willing to roll the dice. I have part of my retirement portfolios in that for the last four or five years. Kind of love it. QQQ, I love less than that, but hey, I'll put it B tier because you're still getting an aggressive diversified mix of technology and growth stocks, which how can you hate that? Tesla, right now I'm putting it C tier because they're at this pivotal moment when I think the entire future of Tesla depends upon Elon locking in and getting this optimist robot right, and he hasn't yet. I think the entire future of Tesla is in robotics.

2:13:35And I'm quite honestly disappointed with how quickly that project's been moving or how slowly it's been moving the last year. It has not come as far as I thought it would. I think Elon is distracted and all over the place. If they execute on Optimus, I think Tesla could go to A tier, maybe even S tier. If they don't, it could move down to D tier pretty quick. Could theoretically be F tier with its valuation and the automotive business. I know it's a hot take. Microsoft, listen, they're deep in the infrastructure layer. I got to give them B because they're just going to get that spending. They're just in the right place at the right time, but their traditional business is going to get destroyed.

2:14:29So I can't put them up above B tier because they're one of those SaaS companies that eventually they're just going to get destroyed on the SaaS side. But on the cloud computing and all the AI stuff, it will save them. Lululemon, season to season, I just don't know yet. So I got to throw them in C tier. it's like that's a company i'm either going to be long short depending on what the trends are telling me that season did they get the right styles in are they making the right moves are they back in favor um you know they got to continue to go down the right road with men and young people and right now they're just kind of you know on the flux uh vu kind of same thing I mean, it's just like, I'll give them B tier, kind of what QQQ.

2:15:21Sandisk, I mean, right place, right time, A tier. Your memory company, I mean, you got tailwinds unlike I've ever seen. People think that whole market's going to fall apart. They think there's going to be new tech. Not in the next 24 months, so for now, they're A tier.

2:15:44Meta, I'm going to put them A tier for one reason and one reason only. Meta has so many expenses that they're going to erase the next two years as part of this AI efficiency wave. Not as many as Amazon, but Meta has, I think, 20 ,000 to 30 ,000 people who basically just read post for safety and curation. I mean, they're gone. I think that's a few billion dollars a year in savings right there. But Meta has massive efficiencies they will bring into the ad market. As long as Instagram remains like one of the world's primary social destinations, Meta will make a lot more money with a much lower cost structure over the next few years.

2:16:33And that targeting with AI is going to get insanely good. Exxon Mobil Energy is where It's at right now But I don't know That much about Exxon So I'm just going to Put them in B tier But You're in the energy industry You're in a really good Place right now Palantir It's really hard You know Palantir was one of the Biggest trades I've had The last few years I'm currently out of Palantir Because I think the world Finally has come to Appreciate all the great Things about Palantir And I think the future Will be good But can they You know Is it good enough to satisfy the valuation? I just don't know.

2:17:10I'm going to put them as a NB. What is a Swatch Group? We'll just see. If Swatch actually executes on the Croc strategy, and I think they can because AP is like an insane brand. Yes. if they now take that collaboration and show the world that they can actually operate it because this weekend did not go well for them and get like a few dozen other collaborations over the next three to five years they could move up but if not i think they die so that's why they're dead in the middle let's see well thank you so much for coming on really

2:17:48Chris Camillo:appreciate it and for anyone interested in that swatch ap collab uh do do the comment do the comment down below and we'll go through in the next few days. We'll pick a comment. How's that? And we'll reach out to you. On top of that, I will be going into margin. So everyone, if you're a bull, I'm sorry, consider shorting the market because I'm bringing on some margin. Graham, I apologize. By the way, I'm not a financial advisor and I was just messing with you. But if you really want to do that, go ahead. I actually would. I have beat the market year over year. So let's just see what happens. If I went into margin guys, I would do it responsibly as we found out in the money guy episode, as well as this episode, I'm actually a pretty conservative investor.

2:18:31So I'm excited. All right. All right.

2:18:33Chris Camillo:Link to all your info down below in the description and your Twitter, by the way, which I've really been enjoying. And you've been a part of this group. I'm just going to do a quick shout out for the index. It's a kind of mastermind for high level entrepreneurs, business owners. There's a link down below in the description. If you want Dude, the guys are insanely awesome in the group. Insanely awesome. I love them. Love them. I knew you would like it. Well, thank you for joining that. Really appreciate it. Thank you for watching. Thank you to our channel members, by the way, for supporting the channel.

2:19:02It's so funny. We're just going to keep going. Thanks for watching, guys. Until next time.

2:19:06Chris Camillo:Until next time.