MrBeast Winner Breaks Silence On Stealing Money, Going To Prison, & Hitting Rock Bottom

22:16So that was real. That was all real. Yeah. So this is when I really realized how legit Mr. Beast is and anyone could say whatever they want about him. But this like I think solidifies it. But when that happened on day 50, where only one of us could pick the visit, in my mind, I'm thinking, OK, this is going to happen. They'll focus on Lenny and then they're going to let me say hi to my family or something. They flew them out there all the way from Connecticut. Like, I'll have time with them to see them. And he got his edit for the video. Everything's good. They put me in solitary. I'm thinking, OK, they're going to open the door any second.

22:50They got the shots. Everything's good. None of that happens. I'm literally in solitary for like five hours. waiting. They put my family back in a car and sent them all the way back to Connecticut. I didn't talk to them. How did your family feel about that? My dad's pissed to this day. So something that didn't make the video was that on day 80, because every check-in, I would say, Jimmy, this is a real prison. Where's my phone call? And we would go back and forth and he would always string me along. And on day 80, he finally gave me a FaceTime, like right before that rock challenge. So that was the first time I got to talk to my family.

23:19We were able to send letters because we bought down commissary, but we couldn't receive letters back. So they had a whole stack of letters for us when we got out. But on day 80, you know, I FaceTime my dad for like five minutes when Lenny was deciding on the rock. Um, and that was the first time I got to talk to him. My dad like is yelling at Mr. Beast, like in the background, I'm still mad at you. Uh, cause my dad doesn't, he's almost 80. He doesn't really understand how this all works at its content, you know? But I had told them before I left, listen, I'm not paying for you guys. Like if there's a, if there's a visit and they offer For money, I'm not doing it.

23:51I want to keep the money to see you guys because I saw in other videos you could pay for a visit. But that's what essentially happened. I realized how real it is. Nothing's scripted or you're being recorded 24-7. So those were the only things that you really feuded about was the solitary confinement and then the snoring. Yeah, we fought about The Rock, though, too. So Lenny made that decision on his own because I was so happy about the phone call and focused on that. I left it to Lenny to make the decision on The Rock. He inspected the rock. He's like, bro, we got this. This is easy. That first hour, we're just swinging it because we didn't have the proper tool yet.

24:26We didn't have the chisel yet. We ended up finding what we needed in the book. And then they gave us a chisel because they knew that you needed the chisel for it. But I was pissed at him. I was getting beat up like splinters and blisters. And we were both getting hurt. And the rock was not budging. So explain the offering that they made to you with the rock. Okay, so with The Rock on day 80, they came in and they said, hey, do you guys want to make money? This is the first challenge in 80 days where we have the opportunity to make money. They say, if you want to do this challenge, they don't tell us what it is yet.

24:59You have to pay 50 grand to enter. So we pay the 50 grand, we go outside and we see The Rock. We heard noises outside all day, like them moving everything around, but we didn't know what it was. We see The Rock. They took our 50 grand. Then he explains that if you break The Rock and get the key, you'll get your 50 grand back plus another 50 grand, so 100 grand total. And so Lenny decides to do that, take the rock deal, and I was going to support him. And I thought we would be able to do it, but I didn't realize how hard it was going to be. That rock was hard. It was a granite rock that they literally drilled it at the top, put a cement block in it with a key, and then flipped it over so that's at the bottom.

25:37That's why you see in the video, we're trying to pry it with the chest press to flip it over to get to it, and it wasn't working. How did there just happen to be a book that you found in the library? So I think that it might have been planted. Like they had that plan from day one because they have all the challenges planned. Like they know what their plan is. But also there was a lot of random books in there. Like they did a really good job. That was like a real prison library. They had every book you can possibly imagine in that library. It didn't look like they had that many books. There's a lot of books.

26:08And so there just happened to be a book about like rocks and how they work and how you can open them. Yeah, how did you find that? It was a masonry book. And so by that point, by day 80, I knew every book in that library because I was going in there for an hour a day. I was tearing books out. I was ripping them apart. I was skimming through it. And I was reading a book a day too. I was literally reading a book a day. I read the whole Lord of the Rings series. Wait, how are you reading a book a day if you only had an hour? I smuggled them out. Remember in the video? Yeah, I started smuggling the books out on day one.

26:39Actually, the first night we got the challenge when Jimmy turned around, I was able to get the Bible out for Lenny. Did you not worry at all that you smuggling books could somehow jeopardize the challenge? Or did you believe that Jimmy would not cancel the challenge or anything for you smuggling books? So I was definitely scared about it. Like there was more things we could have done in the video that I could have got away with from a content perspective. But then like me who has been to prison, it's like, I don't want to get in trouble for this. Like I don't want to break the rules that were break the game.

27:07They would always say, it's your sandbox, do whatever, but don't break the game. So I didn't know if that classified as breaking the game. For example, when we turned down the kitchen, they had to dump all that stuff out of the kitchen to like to remove all the stuff that they filled in there. And it was like sitting in the rec yard one day they had on a cart and I was going to steal it all. And I was like, I don't want to get in trouble. And I later found out that they would have used as content like I wouldn't have gotten in trouble for it. So their definition of breaking the game is like if we're smashing windows or prying something apart.

27:35But the books, they let me roll with it. They didn't yell at me at that. I mean, that happened on day 30. And we didn't see Jimmy day 40. The boys came for commissary. And then we got scolded for the books on day 50. But he let it rock. And they said afterwards that they wanted a reason to use solitary. So how often were you interacting with people other than the cop? It's very rarely. I mean, on day one, when you're filming the intro, everyone's around, Jimmy's around, then he comes in two days later, that's all real. Then every 10 days he comes in to film with you, that's all real. But then you have the production team that was dressed as cop or as guards, as correctional officers.

28:16So when they would deliver the food, these are the guys that are making notes while they're watching your camera, the cameras, because someone has to physically watch the set, take notes if something happens, change your mics. and then they would feed us. So they would get the keys and they would come down in the correctional officer outfit. So you got to talk to them there too. And then they had like the God mic hanging above where we would like, we gave them all names, all the guards. So we would call them like LT or shot caller. We'd come up with names and sometimes they would banter back. But for the 90 % of the time, you're alone.

28:47Throughout the process though, Jimmy would come through on tours. Like he brought the Make-A-Wish foundation through. All the streamers that leaked clips from the video came through. At different various points, he did a lot of tours. That's really interesting. Yeah, so people would get to see it. And we didn't think any of that stuff was coming out. But I guess they want them to leak it. What about like the video cameras and the audio equipment? Like how I feel like, you know, for us, like we have to swap the batteries. We got to do all of that. I imagine if you're recording 24-7 for 100 days, there's going to be a lot of production issues.

29:21Were there any like leaks there that you saw? No, so they have like a full-time production team that's on. And remember, he had three sets going on at the same time. He had the plane. He had the gym. We would literally yell across to Madge. You would? Yeah, we would. In his video at the 21-minute mark, you see us yelling, Ayo, across the field to him. Wow. So you see that in his video. And then he came to us on day 80, day 90, and day 100 because he had gone out by that point. So there's that. And then we saw them, like, setting up the whole crane for him to do the hanging challenge, like, when they lifted him up and whatnot.

29:56But they would have production guys come in, change out cameras, change wires. They're always like doing stuff because they built this whole prison in two months. So there were some like tweaks that they had to work on. But other than that, everything's, you know, very legit. We had our vlog cameras, we had our microphones and that was it. How much do you think it costs to make that video? I'd say with like talent, production, the prison, everything, probably like three million bucks. That's what I think. Makes sense because if he's running at a loss on a lot of these videos, he probably loses a little bit on this video, but makes it back with Feastables or just brand recognition.

30:32And over time, like, what are the estimates on those apps say? Like, that video is at 80 million views right now, and it's made like 400 or 500K in revenue. I don't know how that all works because I don't have numbers like that. But overall, you know, I'm sure long-term, he'll make that money back on the video. And it's all about cash flow and getting the revenue in and more views. And, you know, and he's got Feastables and he's got everything else too. and merch and sponsorships. Is there anything in the video he didn't want the audience to know? They don't do any, like they take such good care of you.

31:02Even when we were in solitary, they made sure we had the AC units in there. Like you see in the video, me laying on the floor, the AC units there, they installed AC right away when they realized there was no AC in the building and they had to get AC put in because it was in winter when we started, but then the springtime happened. They're so good about care. Like they're not going to let you get physically hurt or anything like that. They want to make sure you're good. They're checking in on you all the time between casting or they had a doctor come every 30 days to weigh us, make sure we're good food wise and everything like that.

31:32So they're so professional in that regard. Makes me think, speaking of getting hurt, Jimmy should do a Survivor episode of Creators. Get 20 Creators together on an island and literally recreate Survivor. That would be great. For a million dollars. He should have all his old contestants, kind of like what Barstool is doing now with the Barstool thing or whatever, the beach thing. But he just put out a post saying he wanted to do a Hunger Games version. Obviously, no one dying, but there was a trending post talking about the Hunger Games. I don't know. I think Survivor is making a comeback. Yeah.

32:05So I think a lot of people would prefer Survivor. I think it would be good. I mean, he's got so many— The drama between people. Yeah, he's got so many different angles he could do about it. But have them get hurt. I don't know about physically hurt. I would love it as a viewer but I think that it causes a lot of controversy for creators you just know what you're getting into if you understand you're going to an island and you're going to have to eat bugs and coconuts you know what you're getting into if you get hurt that's part of the challenge if you're listening to this Jimmy I would win I would win put me in any challenge I'll win I'm curious what was your first impression of Jimmy so I didn't really know what to expect with him I was definitely very intimidated by him and nervous about him on day one I didn't know how he would be.

32:47I watched his diary of a CEO interview with him the night before I went in. And when I met him, he's just a really nice, good dude. He'll make jokes like a normal person. He played chess with me. We played basketball with him. He cares so much, especially about the people in his videos. Some of his directors would come and say, Jimmy, you want to make sure you're generally okay, because I was always complaining about the phone call or things like that. And I'm like, yeah, it's like it's content. You know, I get it. So he's just, he cares a lot and he's just a really nice dude, but he's extremely busy.

33:23So when you're there for 2 ,400 hours, we probably maybe spent all together two hours with him out of all that time. You know, he's flying for different videos. He's recorded all these videos while we were there. And it's really cool to see the videos he worked on like while we were in there and what he would tell us about. But he's just a good dude. You got to respect the hustle and I appreciate the opportunity it gave me. What was it like going without your phone? Dude, at first it was hard because I was always on my phone. Then it's so peaceful. When are you ever going to get a chance in life to go 100 days without a phone or any piece of electronic?

33:58When we got access to the computer and the library, it only had Wikipedia on it. It had no games, nothing, just Wikipedia. So that was like the first electronic thing. But it's refreshing, but it's also hard at the same time. but it's also nice to not have to owe anyone an answer. I think it would have been harder if I had like a wife or kids or anything at home at the time. I think that was definitely harder for Lenny. How was it going on your phone for the first time after 100 days of not having it? So I got on my phone like right away just to look at all of my data and stats and stuff. And there's like this clip of me freaking out because I finally passed like 100 ,000 followers on Instagram.

34:33And I was so curious about how my YouTube was doing and everything. And I was just like consumed by that data and looking at it. So it was nice. And then we ended up all going out with the beast team that night. And I got drunk for the first time in like 100 days. We're at the bar. I'm like, time in 100 days. You're getting drunk. No, I didn't drink the night before the challenge. It was like 105 days. But anyways, I go back to the hotel room. It's like 3 a.m. And I'm trying to fall asleep and I couldn't fall asleep. So I just stayed up all night, worked and then, you know, got the tour of like his studio the next day and then flew home that night.

35:07But it was good to be back on the phone, connect with people, be back on social media, see what I missed. They would mess with us. Jimmy would be like, hey, did you see that aliens are real now? They just confirmed it. And then when you'd ask him about it, he walks away and never comes back. So there would be stuff like that. He would have streamers give us random stuff, random information that was fake or whatever. He has fun with you. He would come by at 11 o 'clock at night some nights. What was cool to see is that whole, what was it, that challenge, the viral post about the thug life stuff with the pictures where he was like holding up cash.

35:44Oh, yeah. Yeah, he was due. He did that at the prison. He did that while that was all going on and stuff. So that was cool to see. And really quick, I just want to say that when I was in real estate, one of the hardest things for me to do was to stay organized. It felt like I was constantly juggling spreadsheets, email chains, client outreach. I spent more time tracking deals than I did actually closing them. That's why I wish I had today's sponsor back then, and that would be PipeDrive. They are the number one CRM for small to medium-sized businesses. It's built to make things simple, and it's especially perfect for real estate.

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36:46You can even try it right now for free for 30 days by going to pipedrive.com slash iced. There's no credit card and no payment needed. Once again, that is Pipedrive.com slash iced, and you can get started in minutes. Not hours, not weeks, not years, not decades, not centuries, but minutes. Huge thank you again to Pipedrive for sponsoring this episode, and now let's get back to the podcast. And how was it living with a complete stranger for 100 days? To me, it was fine because I did that before for three years. You know, think about all the random people I had to live with and adapt to and be in sales with.

37:17I did six months in real solitary at one point. So that was easy for me. It was fine to do that. Well, you said six months in real solitary? Yeah, so that was the other reason why I didn't like the Mr. B solitary, because it's half the size of real solitary. It's bigger in real prison. Why were you in solitary? So the first time I was in solitary was because I got caught on a contraband phone. We all had contraband cell phones in prison. Like, they were like LG smartphones. And our room got raided, and they got into the phone, and there was a video of me getting choked out of us wrestling. Like, we were just messing around.

37:53and one of the guys in the room was like choking, like squealing on the floor. And they raid the room, they see the video, they call me the lieutenant's office, they put the whole room under investigation, they put me in the solitary for that, like under protective custody, I guess, in a way. And they asked if I wanted to leave there. And I'm like, yeah, everyone's trying to extort me here and give me a hard time. And I was in New Jersey. I wanted to be at the Danbury Federal Prison, which is my hometown where I'm from, what Orange is the New Black is based on. So I sat in the shoe there for like six weeks.

38:22They finally shipped me to danbury but on the way to danbury so new jersey to danbury is about an hour and a half drive, right? You know how long it took me to get by prison transport bus from new jersey to danbury About a month and a half Wow, so when I left I did fort dicks. They brought me to philly Well, first they brought me to brooklyn spent a night in brooklyn then I went to philly I was in solitary there for six weeks because if you travel from the shoe Whatever facility you're in in transit, you have to go to the shoe I sat there for six weeks What do you mean like the shoe? Solitary it's called the shoe the special housing unit or the box or So what is it like in there?

39:00So it's like Half the size of this room and width And double bunk bed prison toilet a desk and that's it you get One shower three showers a week every other day Three meals a day no commissary you're on kind of restriction wreck yard five days a week for an hour So that's kind of like where Jimmy got that theme from. That's more like solitary. When they come in to get you, both you and your cellmate have to handcuff yourself behind your back in the slot. And then they come in to get you and they move you out. So that's solitary. People could be there if they check in. That's called like checking in for protective custody.

39:35Or if you get caught with a phone or under investigation, anything like that, you're in solitary. So I finally make it to Danbury. And that's five minutes from where my parents lived. and I get on the yard and now I know about paperwork and how to maneuver. And I knew people there and people knew me and they knew that I didn't snitch or I wasn't a defender. And I'm on the yard for like 15 hours, didn't even meet my bunkmate yet. And the lieutenants call me to the lieutenant's office and say, are you Ian Bick? I said, yes. They said, turn around, put your hands behind your back. And they handcuffed me and they bring me the solitary there.

40:06This solitary looks like Alcatraz, like with the three tiers and the actual bars on it, like you would think is what a prison looks like. I later found out that I had dated a guard's cousin and he reported a conflict of interest, saying that because he worked there, that could lead to a conflict of interest exposure. Like if I tried to get contraband from him or anything, it could put him in a compromising position. So I was in the shoe there for three or four months waiting to get transferred. And then they finally brought me to a camp, but it was in Oxford, Wisconsin. They put me on Con Air, shipped me all the way out to Oxford, Wisconsin.

40:43And then I spent my last year in a prison camp. Now, when it comes to the challenge itself, did you have any strategy that you discussed with Lenny? So on day one, we kind of talked about not spending any money. And then we, good thing is like we, by day nine, we talked amongst ourselves of, hey, let's not, let's actually spend a little bit of money to get through this to help us. Because then on day 10, we got offered the$50 ,000 offer,$25 ,000 each to spend money for the rec yard. So our strategy was overall, don't spend a lot of money, but then we realized you kind of have to in these videos.

41:20And they reward you for that by giving you options to make money like we saw with The Rock. And that's why I spent money on commissary too. What was the money best spent? Definitely the rec yard. I mean, being able to get fresh air for those 100 days was great. And it helped split out the time. Having that hour, we picked our rec time at 5 p.m. So dinner was at 8. So meals were at 8 a.m., 2 p.m., and 8 p.m. So doing it at 5 p.m. kind of broke up the day. And then why we didn't take the kitchen was because we didn't want to give up the rec yard after just 10 days of having it. So that's why we turned it down on day 20.

41:59And honestly, how much did you trust him out of 10? I trust him 100%. Like I could tell he was just a good guy. He was very religious. And I think throughout the whole thing, if anyone didn't trust anyone, it's him not trusting me just based on my past and that I'm branded as a criminal in it and everything like that. But I trusted him fully. You could tell he was just a good person. You ever just like meet that person and you just know they're like a good dude, that was him. Just a really solid guy. Were there any topics you were afraid to talk about that were just on camera because you're constantly recorded?

42:33Like sometimes Jack and I will be, you know, riffing back and forth and some taboo topics. Yeah. Maybe there's some jokes every now and then that we make or it's like, you know, there's no cameras around. So maybe you forget about like our being recorded. So we like at 10 p.m. when like we took our mics off to go to bed, we would always talk about like relationships or just whatever, like random stuff. But the one thing I never talked to him about was that at one point I had an OnlyFans when I was first getting started in podcasting because he was like super against only like it came up in conversation about like OnlyFans and like it was despicable and like all of these things.

43:10So when I first started, when I quit my job, I had no money. I wasn't making money on the podcast or whatnot. So I was literally driving Uber, doing DoorDash. I had an OnlyFans and like it was 90 percent men that subscribed to me. And I made like 10 grand in a month. In one month? Yeah, bro. I was telling feet pics, other pics. Are you serious? Yeah, dude. It was crazy. I still got guys to this day DM me and be like, hey, do you still have the OnlyFans? So you just put a link up and you made 10 grand in a month? Yeah. About a month and a half, but yeah. Is there a dollar amount where you would consider doing that again?

43:40I think now I would probably make serious money doing it because it might have a huge following now. It's way bigger. That was like when I first started in the early days. Are you worried about that stuff being recirculated? No, I mean, who cares? You know, like if it comes out, it comes out. What are you going to do? you know it's it's not the end of the world why don't you do it graham graham you know what graham does he loves doing this is like hey you should do this you should do this and graham would be me no i would never do that but you should do he's a business guy though he's looking at the dollars he's a business guy just saying for i want to help other people that's very nice i'm thinking i'm thinking of someone else other than myself sure so if if you are in desperate need of another fifty thousand dollars a month then maybe you could do it but i i think that like if you're getting by and you're paying your bills you know you're doing you're doing fine you know maybe if you really want to by all means no i think that chapter is closed especially after doing a mr beast video and stuff i can't i feel like that'd be kind of like slapping him in the face yeah i can't do that i can't have any scandals or anything like that you know it's just not i can't do it but it's a part of the story you know i'm gonna own that i'm not gonna hide that just uh it's a genuine part of the story it's he'll probably watch this but um yeah so it is what it is.

44:47Would you say you ended up becoming really close friends with him after 100 days? Yeah, we're really close. I mean, a couple weeks after he came and we recorded the episode for my podcast with me and him. And then I did one for his podcast. We went to dinner. We talk almost every day. He's just he's a good dude. He's curious about content. He learned a lot from me. I learned a lot from him. And we have a close relationship. What was it like winning $500 ,000? Well, I didn't technically win$500 ,000. But it was. I don't know. Now, you might be hearing that AI is transforming work, but if you've actually rolled it out in your company, you know how it usually goes.

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47:42Because from my court case, I had about$500 ,000 restitution. Now my balance today is about$197 ,000. Today? Today, yeah. That's after Mr. Beast, after paying money from my business and everything like that. So that brings it down to that. So how do restitution payments look? Let's say you fraud someone out of$500 ,000. You get$500 ,000 in restitution. Go to prison. You get out. could you just file for bankruptcy? How many payments do you need to make? How long of a term is it? Is it a certain percentage of your income? How does it look? So you can't file for bankruptcy on federal restitution.

48:17I'm not sure how it works in the state. At your sentencing, your judge is going to order a payment plan through the term of your supervised release. So for example, Wolf of Wall Street, during his supervised release was 50 % of his income. Mine was$1 ,000 a month. usually after that supervised release ends the it's called the financial litigation unit they're like the u.s attorney team that goes after uh civil stuff because it becomes civil after um they kind of hold that you know payment plan um to the standard or they'll you'll negotiate with them or talk to them the worst thing you could do is avoid them and not pay so when i got off supervised release i was paying the a thousand dollars a month once my business started or after i left Whole Foods.

48:58And I met with them and we agreed on the$1 ,000 a month. But when I get bigger chunks of money, then I pay more towards it. I think the biggest thing is just showing trust because they can't go after you. Like if you're not paying, they can sanction you. They can levy your bank accounts and do things like that. What they say is that the judgment's good for 20 years. And then after that, it kind of falls off. But at the rate I'm going, it's going to be paid before the 20 year mark. But you look at a guy like Jordan and he still owes like$98 million. And that case was you know, 20 something years ago.

49:30I read somewhere that he's paying like 10 grand a month. So who do you mostly owe it to? Just investors that were a part of the case. There's about 12 people. Are they like your friends? Old friends, yeah. Friends, parents of those friends. I had raised money for a concert business. Concert business is the worst business you could go get into. Overpromised, underdelivered, which was okay in the sense where if I had just been honest and said, I lost your money, It would have been okay. It would have been at best maybe a civil thing, but it turned out to be I lied about those losses and said I made money when I didn't.

50:05And in essence, a Ponzi scheme kind of grew from that because I was taking loans from some people to pay off others just to continue to lie and buy time to pay off their investments. Yeah, let's talk about that. How did you get into doing this? So my dad is a caterer, and I grew up going to the Harry Potter premieres and going to cool events in New York City because he would cater these events. And I always had a passion for that. And I had a passion for business at a young age. I would sell candy out of my backpack in middle school. And I would have lemonade stands. And I was always like a hustler in that sense.

50:40Then where it really starts is my beginning of sophomore year of high school, me and my best friend foamed these cars in our neighborhood. We lived in this gated neighborhood where there's like a president and a vice president. And they said, you can't ride golf carts. and we had golf carts at the time and we felt like offended. So we took insulation foam, foamed their cars at night and got caught for it and got sentenced to community service. And my community service project was, I came up with it to sell like these Livestrong type bracelets for a dollar a piece and call it Fight for the Homeless.

51:15That kind of grew. I raised a couple thousand dollars for charity and I decided to make a school dance from it. And I made a school dance, organized it, rented the venue, you did all these things just as a sophomore in high school and realized that if you could get 300 kids to pay 20 bucks to, you know, go to a school dance, this could be a business. A few months later, when I turned 16, I start renting out this local club in Danbury called Tuxedo Junction doing teen parties. I called it like the Halloween rave, the Christmas rave, a paint party where we threw washable paint like a day glow at kids.

51:49And I would make 10 or 15 grand a night once a month all in cash doing these like teen parties, no alcohol and that type of thing. That's when I decided I wasn't going to go to college and that I had this business called myself. This is where it's at entertainment, kind of like a play on words that this is where it's going to be at for the night and got my first LLC, like my junior year of high school. And then I thought that the next step for club promotion was concerts. And the very first concert I ever booked was Big Sean in Danbury. And then after that, started booking other concerts. Did he show up?

52:20He did, yeah. I only had one person not show up. That was Chief Keefe. But you had Big Sean show up, and how much did you have to pay him to? That show, he was$40 ,000 at the time. $40 ,000. This was in 2012, yeah. And how much did you make from that? That we lost money. So the concert business is so tough, especially in the arenas, and you're also, it's not a brick-and-mortar location. So when you're a promoter and you're renting a location and you lose money, you don't even really have a brand to show for it. You know, at least if you have a brick-and-mortar, people are getting familiar with the space.

52:51With the event, you don't have to start over every time. Never had event insurance. We did everything wrong you could possibly do. I mean, we were kids. We were 18 years old, 17 years old. And you booked Big Sean. Yeah. Did you talk to him? No. That day I met him, but not to book him. But yeah, I met him that day, got a picture with him, dealt with his tour manager. I booked 21 Savage, Chief Keefe. How much was 21 Savage? 21 Savage, I gave$24 ,000 to in 2016. And Chief Keefe, how much was he? He was$25 ,000 at the time. Didn't show up, though. What happens if they just don't show up? In a case like that, it's tough because you're going through a management team.

53:26They're hidden by different LLCs. You're going to spend more money than what it takes. Why pay them up front? Or why not pay half now and half later? We paid half up front, the 12-5. But then you have where we lost money was security, the venue. He literally sent out a tweet. So first, the show's at 8 p.m. The manager calls us at seven saying he missed his flight. He'll be on the next one. Then an hour later goes by. We can't find him. We don't hear from them until the next day where he sends out a tweet saying, sorry, Connecticut. Wasn't the promoter's fault. That was it. Never got that money back.

54:01I booked the Chainsmokers, Steve Aoki, Adventure Club. How much were the Chainsmokers? For that night, it was a Thanksgiving Eve party. This is right after they dropped Selfie. But before they dropped, Don't Let Me Down, November 2014, I gave him 25 grand. What about Steve Aoki? Steve Aoki, I wasn't the personal one booking him, but I think he got like 75 grand for that club because that was a smaller capacity. It was at my club, though. Did you ever make money from any concert? Yeah, there was plenty. You know who Blau is? I did him a couple times. We had money with him. Oh, Justin, right? He lives down the street.

54:35Dude, no way. He knows who I am. Really? Yeah. So he was the very first big DJ I booked. So a second DJ. I did GTA at Tuxedo Junction. so he was good friends with this company called envy concepts um that did a lot of shows with him that's how i got all the big names so i booked him twice at my venue um and he i put up like a post like before i got into content he had responded back to it but he's a really nice guy and stuff so anyways we did him on a wednesday night had like 2 000 people there packed out place like we have i'll show you the pictures after it's really cool um he's like his arms spread out it's like a really it was a small club and what we'd get these artists because they would play in boston Then they would play at Shrine and Foxwoods in Connecticut.

55:17Then they would hit Danbury, which is an hour away. And then they would go to New York City. And because we were an all-ages club with no liquor, we could pretty much do any night. Where did things go wrong? So things went wrong with my business before I owned the nightclub. It was the concert promotion where I was taking money from investors, promising them a guaranteed profit. So say I went to you and I said, hey, man, give me 20 grand. I'm going to give you a guaranteed profit back because I was so confident these shows were going to work out. And you'll get it back after the concert. Well, if the concert's all worked out, everything would have been great, but they failed miserably.

55:52When I booked Tyga for$40 ,000 at this arena show, there was an incident. Remember, I'm schmacked. So it was a big college tour. Yeah, I did. Yeah, so there was an incident where they got like this bar shut down. The venue lost its liquor license. A whole big issue. And the dean of the campus at the University of Rhode Island didn't want buses from outside schools coming to the venue. So we lost like 2 ,000 ticket sales in a matter of days from kids from other schools. So I lost on this Tiger show. I paid 100 grand for the whole show with production and everything. My wire transfer after the show was for$16 ,000.

56:29So I lost$84 ,000 that night in one night. So all of these things were piling up. And, uh, simultaneously I had like this electronics business where we were buying like these beats by Dre for like 50 bucks that turned out to be fake. Um, so I was promising people a guaranteed profit. I'd say, Hey, um, give me$20 ,000 as a loan and I'll give you a 50 % return on that. I didn't know that 50 % was extremely high. I was just basing it off of what we could sell the product for beats by Dre, 50 bucks, selling it for 400 bucks. you could afford that. So it pretty soon quickly turned into that business getting defunct and I'm borrowing from one person paying off another.

57:07I didn't have credit at the time. I'm thinking, okay, this is a loan. I could use one loan to pay off another loan. Like you borrow from one bank to pay off another bank or get a loan for another loan. And then the whole thing collapses after a few months, all the concerts failed. The electronics business failed and I'm like 1.2 million in debt with the interest, with all like the promised payments. And this was in January of 2014 or of 2013 or December of 2013. What was it like having all that money come in your bank account though? I remember I was 18 years old. It was July 2013, two months after graduation.

57:43And I had like$600 ,000 in my bank account, my business bank account. Knew nothing about accounting. I'm this kid I would wear a suit and tie to high school thinking I was like this business guy with a briefcase and just I have a baby face now. So imagine me back then walking into a Wells Fargo, depositing all this money like no one really batted an eye. It was just an interesting scene. And, you know, we did stupid things with it. Like we bought a pair of jet skis, thinking it was like a company car, but company jet skis. We did like a couple of trips with like other investors and dinners and stuff and clothes.

58:16But for the most part, it was just a lot of stupid decisions that should not have been made. And we just didn't know how to run the business. How did you get caught? So all of this happens. I get a lawyer, a lawyer friend in December of 2013. Keep in mind this lasted six months, this whole thing. And he sends out letters to all the investors, like 15 of them, 12 or 15 of them, saying, hey, the company, we called ourselves WB Investments at the time, is basically bankrupt and we're going to analyze to see what you owe. and his logic or what you're owed. And his logic was, don't give anyone a profit, just give them their out of pocket back.

58:57So say you invested$20 ,000, you had gotten back$10 ,000 in payments, you're really only out of pocket$10 ,000. But as the investor, you're like, whoa, hold on a minute, I was promised like, all of this interest. So you think you're owed$50 ,000. So everyone got pissed, and they went to the local police department. I went in with the lawyer, met with the local Police Department. They were kind of fishing around. They escalated it to the Department of Banking where they subpoenaed me. I didn't know we had a Department of Banking and I thought this whole thing just needed to be cleared up. So I went there without a lawyer, testified for like five hours.

59:32This is when I was 18 years old in 2014 in April. After that meeting, they say there's two gentlemen there waiting to meet with you. And I'm sitting in this room, smaller than this room in like a closet and two guys in, you know, old suits come out and they show me their IDs and they say they're postal inspectors. And they start asking me questions. And I didn't know that they had listened into the whole interview and that they had very targeted questions towards me. At the end of the interview, they served me a target letter from the FBI saying you're under a federal investigation for wire fraud, mail fraud, money laundering, a bunch of things.

1:00:04And at that point, that's when I got a federal attorney, a criminal defense attorney. A couple months after that, I'm 19 now. We met with the U.S. Attorney's Office for this thing called a reverse proffer. A proffer is where you give the government information about the case or co-defendants. A reverse proffer is where they say what they have on you to kind of look at what the case is. And I'm in this big room at the U.S. Attorney's Office in Connecticut with FBI agents, U.S. attorneys, interns from the U.S. Attorney's Office and IRS agents because the IRS was on the case too. And they laid out this whole case.

1:00:37And basically, I was an And I didn't budge. That was actually the night I had the Blau show. And I said, hey, I got a sold out show with Blau tonight. This doesn't really matter. And I was just very arrogant and cocky and and and and that kind of started the whole war. And then in January 2015, I got indicted five o 'clock in the morning. FBI agents, IRS, the state troopers, local police department banging on my door at my parents' house at 5 a.m. I had just gotten back from the casino because I had a little gambling habit at the time. And they woke me up. I'm in my boxers and they hauled me out of the house in handcuffs and in cowboy boots because they needed me to be in shoes without laces.

1:01:21and I was in the high school musicals throughout high school. So I had those in my closet. Did you have any contracts with the people who gave you money or was it all just word of mouth? I had contracts. I had these, I actually went, that was one of our defenses at trial. I went to an attorney, told him exactly what we were doing. And he wrote me this one page contract saying, I waived the right to usury, like usury claims and that these were loans, just loans for business purposes. One page document and that was it. So in hindsight, had you just said nothing when they started probing you? Would you have gone to jail?

1:01:56I don't think so because I made their whole case for them. I gave them all the documents, everything. I put it all together, names, phone numbers. But even before that, all I had to do was just say, I lost your money and there wouldn't have been any fraud. I just started lying profusely because I didn't want to let anyone down. Do you feel bad for what you did or do you think that the punishment didn't really fit the crime? I definitely felt bad about losing everyone's money. I would have pled guilty right then and there if it was no jail time. I went to trial because my plea deal was for like four years.

1:02:28It was ridiculous. I was 18 and they wanted to send me to prison for four years over a very relatively small amount compared to what they normally prosecute. Yeah, that's the part that was confusing because it seems like the amount of resources that they went after for the amount of loss that's there. Like they would spend more money on your case than would cost just to put you to work and have you pay these people back. The cost to keep you and send you to prison for that long could have just paid the restitution. Oh, at the cost of the trial. I mean, keep in mind, this is a one month's trial.

1:02:58They were flying out people from all over the country because everyone was at college at this point. Agents, there was a task for it. Like, it didn't make sense. I think they thought it was bigger than what it was. I think they thought it was in the millions because normally with these fraud cases, there's always more to be discovered and there wasn't. And it was a very quick period of time. And I think they thought I was going to take a plea deal, which I would have if it was no jail time. So that's what kind of got them pissed off. And what pissed them off even more is that while my whole case is going on, I open up this club, Tuxedo Junction, that now went out of business from the old owners.

1:03:31I take it over and I'm doing all these concerts like with Blau and Zed's Dead and the Chainsmokers and all while on bond and on bail and, you know, taking the government to trial. Were you making good money during that period of time? It was hit or miss because the problem was I had this new business, which was completely underfunded. I mean, literally there would be nights where I was taking ticket money and running next door to the dollar store to get sodas to fill up the bar to sell it. I was so underfunded. And the problem was, is that it was a brand new business and I had some early losses, like as in any new business, losses early on, like a couple of concerts failed miserably.

1:04:08So say I made 10 grand with Blau and then I would do another show that would lose 15. I'm already in a deficit from the past. I'm underfunded. I have no funding and I'm taking on more debt. So there would be periods of time, like the Chainsmokers, I owed them 20 grand for like six months. And I'm like going to the casino to gamble to win money to pay their agents so I didn't get blacklisted. I was selling equipment at the club. I was doing whatever I had to do to make that happen. What was your game of choice? I'd play a Baccarat. I know I'm pronouncing it wrong. Baccarat. Baccarat. But it was electric.

1:04:39So this is what ultimately sent me to prison. I would go to this casino called Empire City in Yonkers. And it was electronic table because I wasn't 21 yet. So I couldn't go to the Connecticut casino. And I would take like 500 bucks and play this electronic machine. I would ride the streaks. So when it's going all player, all banker, I would just continuously double down on that. You can only bet up to two grand, but I would just keep putting that, that, that and doubling it down. There'd be days I'd make 500, turn 500 into$30 ,000. That's how I was funding the club in the later days. How did you get so lucky?

1:05:10Because you could lose that. I mean, you could say that about how did I get cast in Mr. Beast and how did I do everything I've been able to accomplish over that. Luck is a big part of it. There's no rhyme or reason to it. There's no skill. It was just a part of my, I guess, destiny, the way I look at it. But one of the conditions of my supervised release for bail, I had a$500 ,000 or$250 ,000 bail, was that I couldn't go out of state without permission. So what ends up happening is they find out because one of the guys that was working for me snitched on me and wanted to take the club for me. And they told the FBI after I got convicted at trial that I was going out of state to gamble.

1:05:48So they did an investigation. A month before sentencing, the judge revoked my bond. That's what really pissed the judge off and sent me to federal prison. He told me the party's over. It was a whole press release on it. And I got put in a detention center a month before sentencing. Do you think you needed that to happen to like put you in place or to like teach you a lesson? Like, could you have been where you are today had that not happened? So I think mentally, I could have done it probably in half the time to like really figure life out. But I think those three years are the best thing that could ever happen to me because it gave me the prison story that helped me build the platform I have.

1:06:23Because my prison experience was just crazy from all the different prisons I was in to all the incidents that happened to every little thing. I wouldn't have been able to do that if I got in like a year and a day or my dad and I were talking about this the other day. If I had just gotten house arrest or probation, me and you wouldn't be here today. my whole story came from prison. I always thought my story, like I remember being in prison, trying to write a book, trying to be Jordan Balfour, the Wolf of Wall Street, getting my story option and stuff, thinking how cool it was that an 18-year-old owned a nightclub and booked all these acts.

1:06:56But then it's like Billy McFarlane kind of already did that. You know, he had that story, the Fyre Fest thing and whatnot. And it just, it wasn't it. It wasn't hitting. It was the second when I started talking about prison from my perspective that everything changed. So I needed that. That was the best thing that could ever happen to me. What happened to the Fyre Festival? Do you have sympathy towards Billy and his failed Fyre Festival knowing what you know about the entertainment industry? No, I think Billy's kind of a piece of shit, honestly. I've talked to him on Twitter and he gave me the runaround.

1:07:26When I first started, I wanted to have him on my show. He was too good for me, sent me to his manager who sent me to another manager that sent me to another manager. Just very sketchy. then like funny enough he called me his manager called me last year because they wanted me to do that karate fight thing against him but they didn't want to pay me for it and it was just like a silly thing and my following is bigger than Billy's and he had all this press I just think he's not that likable like I'm just not a fan of him and the Fyre Fest thing like people compare me to him and it's like I was able to actually do the shows he never produced a successful show But I guess in some ways, like, I feel for him about how the show's ended up.

1:08:09But you got to you can't like in some sense, your mind, you got to be like, you're selling tickets. How is no one figuring this out logistically? Because this could all been avoided. I mean, the concert could have happened. Remember that doctor's appointment you were supposed to make a while ago? The one that's been sitting on your to do list for weeks, maybe months. Maybe it's just that overdue annual checkup, that weird rash you keep Googling, Graham, or your dentist reminding you that it's been two years since your last cleaning. Trust me, we've all been there. Booking a doctor's appointment can feel like such a hassle until now.

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1:10:50They've had Shopify stores. They've done incredibly well. I've had a Shopify store. Graham's had a Shopify store and you can too for$1 for the first month at shopify.com slash ICH. There's also a link down below in the description. You can just click it right there. Thank you so much to Shopify for sponsoring this episode. I don't understand how you were making as much as you were and you had probably very little expenses living with your parents. Like, how could you not have just shifted some money around to slowly pay back investors? And also, are these relationships with these investors destroyed now if they were like your friends growing up and you're borrowing money from them, borrowing money from your parents, from their parents, you're paying them off now.

1:11:25But like, how are those relationships? Well, I couldn't pay them back when I started the club like Tuxedo Junction because there would be losses at the club. Like if I made some money, I would lose on another show. And then you have the bills, you have the overhead, you have staff. It was never the goal with Tuxedo Junction, the club that I owned after the case during the trial was to build up a big enough name where I could sell it and pay everyone back. And I never got to that point. My bond ends up getting, you know, revoked and I don't accomplish that. The relationships now, I mean, some people have reached out and, you know, made amends with the guy that was actually owed half of the money, 250 ,000 passed away from an overdose a few years ago when I got out of prison.

1:12:04He had won a big lawsuit with a gym, lost vision in his eye when he was 18, got a bunch of money. That's how he had the money. So there's that. I've talked to like his, the mother of his child. But other than that some people have reached out. I think people are just happy that they're getting the money. I think that's all it really comes down to. I'm curious also, like I see you're wearing a necklace, the chain. I see you're wearing a chain. That looks pretty nice. Oh, this was a gift. That was a gift. So like, what do these people think if you're still owing them money in restitution and you go and you spend your money on like nice things?

1:12:37I mean, you didn't buy the chain, but like if you're buying a new car or you're buying a new this, new that, like, has that ever came to the mix? Do you ever think about that? I mean, maybe it comes to the mix, but I pay so much in restitution. I mean, I gave up the last year I paid like 60 or$70 ,000. This year I paid almost, it'll be over$160 ,000 with the monthly payments and everything. I mean, if you think about it, the average person in my position that owes way more than me pays pennies on the dollar. I'll give you a great example. I saw Matt Cox was on your show. He owes millions of dollars.

1:13:11he makes way more money than me on youtube i wonder how much he's paying towards restitution who is he paying restitution to all the victims that are a part of him that that got defrauded through him and he'll go out and say that his thing was a con you know i gotta give him credit for you know doing that he's he's very opposite of me but yeah but to answer your question like the majority of my money goes to restitution and once i get a book deal that'll all go towards restitution too i mean 197 000 of restitution left is not that much money that's going to be paid off in a year tops why didn't you just go to these people and say hey i'm really sorry i messed up before like the police got involved just apologize and say i'm gonna i'm gonna spend the next four years of my life paying you back and you know just have like a heart to heart do you think that would have alleviated?

1:14:05100%. If I was just honest with everyone from the get-go, instead, I would just avoid it. Like when people would call me about money, I would turn off my phone or block them. I just didn't know how to be aggressive and come clean and tell everyone the truth. And by the time I was ready to tell people the truth, no one believed me. Why do you think it was so difficult to do that? I think I just had this, you know, I was popular, I guess, in high school from the parties and throwing house parties and building. I was successful in high school, and I think I wanted to keep up that image. And I felt bad about losing everyone's money, and I thought I could eventually make it back, and I couldn't.

1:14:42But I should have just been honest with everyone. What was it like the first day in jail? What's the process like? Do they shave your head? Do they put you on an orange gun? Shave your head, right? No, they don't shave your head. Do they tattoo some numbers in your arm? It's not like boot camp. Are you kidding me, man? It's not like military boot camp. Maybe I'm confusing the two. I thought you just get there and shave your head and they put you in an orange dumpster. No, but my first day, like when I got my bond revoked, I was chained and shackled. They put a ball and chain on your ankle.

1:15:18My first day, I was chained and shackled and put in a van where I had to go in this van with like six other inmates to Rhode Island where the detention center was. And everything's so slow. Like when you go through processing, it's like two hours long, three hours long. Everything just takes forever. Going through the paperwork, going through the one phone call, going through fingerprints, and you're fed like a tray of cold food from whatever was left in the chow hall. And I just remember getting put in that cell. It was like a solitary cell that first night. And I was in there for 48 hours because I have to do your TV shot, and you can't go out in the general population until that passes.

1:15:56But I just remember that feeling of being locked in there that first night. You know, not all your freedom's taken away. And that's, I think, a feeling that came to me when I was doing the Mr. Beast video. It was even harder during the Mr. Beast video because I could leave whenever I wanted, but there was so much at stake. Was it surreal? When did the reality set in, being in jail? I would say after all the appeals got exhausted. Like I always had hope that I was going to get a bail pending appeal or I was going to win the appeal and go home. So that got me through like the first, I'd say, seven, eight months.

1:16:29And then when everything got exhausted, you're kind of already adjusted to it. And you're like, OK, this this is going to be OK. What was your first night like? First, I had a bunkmate that was like he was a like a crackhead or a crack addict who was detoxing, itching himself all night long, pacing the cell. I wasn't hungry and I couldn't sleep. So he ate my tray of food. And he was telling me all these things about what to do in prison, what not to do in prison, all of it completely false. But just kind of like bouncing around the cell. What was his advice? He was just like, oh, make sure you're sitting with just the white people.

1:17:06And don't do this. Don't do that. This is how you take a shower. Were you trusting of him at the time? Or were you like, ah, there's no way what this guy is saying is true? I honestly, I was kind of scared of him because you're put into a cell lock. that there's not like an emergency button or anything when you're in the cell you go this guy me or something no one would find out like right then and there to save me couldn't you have talked to a guard and said hey this guy's like on something or he's coming down this guy's on something he's not on something he's clearly off something it's just like i don't feel safe i guess you could have but i was just man i was just in in a fog like my one minute i'm out free running the club and then the next minute my bonds revoked and you know i went in that courtroom not going home, you know?

1:17:49I went there a free person and walked out in handcuffs. What was the food like in jail? At the detention centers, that sucked. There's like no seconds. That's like a tray of food. Wasn't the best. All the federal prisons have like a set menu, like a school lunch program that changes like quarterly. Like cheeseburger Wednesdays or hamburger Wednesdays. Every Thursday was chicken day. It's like a broiled burger. But depending on where they make it, Like the food sounds good on the menu. If you pulled up the prison menu, which is available online, sounds great. But depending on the location that they make it.

1:18:23So say you're at a low security prison where they're feeding 2 ,500 guys, that food quality is going to suck. They're building it or they're cooking in a batch. But then when you get to the camp and there's 100 guys, the food was excellent. Bigger portions, it was well seasoned. We had a scratch bakery. I got to work in the bakery too, where we're having like fresh danishes and bagels and donuts and pizza. And then inmates cook their own food too. like make their own commissary items. Then there's the whole smuggling food. I mean, there'd be nights that we smuggled in Chicago deep dish pizza in Wisconsin, sushi, chicken, burritos, everything like that.

1:18:56So how was smuggling in prison? So smuggling, I had just seen at first inmates like have cell phones and like Chinese food and stuff, like through the guards at the Lowe's. A lot of that comes through the guards. Now there's drones and everything that fly it over. But when I got the opportunity to personally smuggle in items, was at the camp. And I saw guys running through the woods because there's no fence at the camp and there's only one guard before count or after count because they count you throughout the day. These guys would run across the field, run through the woods and go to the local motel, have their wife or girlfriend pick them up, go to the motel and hook up with them.

1:19:34And they'd have someone at the camp keeping guard to make sure they don't call an emergency count or anything. And then they'd sneak back in. I would do that sometimes. I never left the actual grounds. I'd just run through the woods to the border and I'd pick up bags. People would pay me to pick up the bags that would have cell phones, that would have food, that would have sneakers, weight equipment, anything. And then you'd just run it back. How do people go to a camp versus a prison? So camp is, it's set by point level. So if you have like 11 points or under, then you could go to a camp and you can't have a dangerous crime.

1:20:06You can't be a defender. Age plays a factor. how many years you can't have more than, I think, 10 years to go to a camp. It's like, that's why they call it Club Fed. That's the make-off of Club Ned, but it's Club Fed. It's a lot of, I would say, white-collar criminals or low-level drug offenses. And it goes by a point system based on your criminal history, your schooling, everything like that. So what part of prison out of everything was the hardest? I had a male prison guard almost. For this episode that you're watching here, we had to probably cut out 30 plus minutes of it for the main release because we talked about a lot of Jack mentioned a lot of stuff here.

1:20:48What about dating in prison? White knuckling, like grabbing the soap. Do you like movies about gladiators? We just can't put it out on YouTube because we know if we did, the whole episode is going to get shadow banned. That's why we have a membership. So if you want to see this entire video uncensored and Jack asking all of his questions that were a little weird, you could join the membership, see the full thing. There we go. Okay. What about the saying where if you go to jail, like you're supposed to beat up a guy, you know? You have to prove yourself ever? Right. It's like find the biggest guy and just kick his ass.

1:21:22Well, I clearly didn't do that at the chow hall that day. That was my moment to do that, you know, and I should have stood up for myself, but I didn't. But there are guys that do that. I hear those stories all the time. And I mean, it's a very real thing. Should you have stood up for yourself? 100%. In the chow hall? Yeah, I caused all my, I should have swung at the guy or not. Because my paperwork was fine. I wasn't in the wrong. You should have hit him? Yeah, I should have hit him right there. Why? But I feel like he would have beat you up. It doesn't matter. It's just you're proving that you have it in you.

1:21:50From there, I was looked at as like kind of like a, in a way, if you think about it. And were there repercussions of being the B word? Were there like things that happened? Um guys just trying to extort me like I was the white kid running around that didn't really run with anyone So they're not gangs and like the lows it's called a car Um, and the car is like who you're riding with and and that goes by the state So there's like the new england car where it's like connecticut massachusetts. There's a new york car. There's a new jersey car Um, and I never ran with anyone. I was like just by myself I didn't know how these politics worked so when I started gambling like playing dice and playing spades and I had a cell a contraband cell phone these guys that have worked their way down for maxes or medium security prisons are like who's this white boy running around without anyone thinking like he's hot and I just didn't I didn't think I was hot shit I just didn't really know what I was doing I was just having fun so they looked at me as like fresh me as prey what was the most fun thing in prison fun thing definitely sports or like people are very into the sports.

1:22:53There would be sports teams like basketball league, softball league. I love playing softball at the camp or basketball and also spades which is the card game that we play in prison or CeeLo, 4, 5, 6 dice. We would play that all night for hours. That was a lot of fun. Did you ever get used to the lack of privacy? I think in the detention center is where you have the least amount of privacy because you have the group showers where you know like you're literally showering like it's like a YMCA type thing and then also in solitary where you're literally peeing and pooping into the same toilet you know as right next to your bunkmate so you would have to make like a makeshift curtain sometimes or you have no privacy in solitary but then at like the camps and the lows there's actual stalls or shower stalls or shower curtains you have way more privacy in those scenarios was that uncomfortable 100 there would be days like I I would like, if I like really had to go to the bathroom, I would hold it in all night for them to pop the doors for breakfast.

1:23:49And my cellmate would walk out to go get breakfast. I would skip breakfast and use the bathroom. Then there's this whole thing about like how to use the toilets properly in a cell, like sitting to pee. I didn't realize you have to sit to pee to not be disrespectful. Like if you stand up and pee, because there's no toilet seats, the pee could hit the toilet that you also sit on and hit the guy's bed. to whoever's on the bottom bunk. So you avoid that by either kneeling to pee and just, you know, peeing like while kneeling or sitting to pee. So the first time I ever was standing up because I thought that was normal, I got yelled at by my bug base.

1:24:25You can't do this in here. This isn't how we do it. Also, another thing that's big is you can't spit in the sink. Like when you're brushing your teeth, they want you to spit in the toilet, your bunk bed, because sometimes they'll wash their clothes in the sink, which that doesn't make sense. They'll wash their boxers in the sink, but you can't spit in it. just all these little simple things. Another big one is at the chow hall, you have to knock on the table before you get up after you eat. And I didn't know why everyone was doing that, but it's a sign of respect that you're finished your meal, peace be upon the table, and someone could take your seat after.

1:24:59So you always knock after you finish your meal. Was there like a kingpin at this prison? Plenty of kingpins, but you're thinking more like a shot caller. Yeah. Yeah, they call them head of the cars or the shot caller of the car. Those are the guys that are like checking paperwork that are, you know, probably down for a while and they're running things. And yeah, they're all the time. But it's not like what you see in the movies in like a low or a camp. It's more what you're thinking of is more in like the mediums or the higher security prisons. Best prison movie ever is that movie called Shot Caller.

1:25:33You ever watch it? You gotta watch it. It's really good. That talks about a guy that went to prison for manslaughter that ultimately got life in prison after he teamed up with the Aryan Brotherhood and stuff to protect his family because he was threatened. So it shows the whole evolution of becoming like a shot caller. Did you ever see any acts of violence between prisoners? So my very first act of violence was when I was at the detention center after I got my bond revoked, sitting in line to get my tray for chow because in the detention centers, they bring a cart, they have all the trays. Another guy cuts this other guy in line, turns into a whole thing.

1:26:07You would think like... what's a big deal? You know, like we're not in high school or middle school just to dress it, whatever. And these two start swinging at each other, throwing punches, stuff like that happened. And then just normal fights, you know, like fist fights. And then guys at the low, especially like the Mexican guys and stuff, are all walking around with like steel rods that are like this long, just tucked in their pants. It's crazy. And did the prison guards not think anything of that? They'll search you and stuff. And if you get caught with it, it's a hundred series shot, which is like the worst infraction.

1:26:36You'll lose some good time. you could go with the shoe. Like if you get caught with a cell phone, you're going to the shoe. But most of the time people will toss it or they're running around or you got to keep in mind there's at these facilities, there's one guard for 400 inmates. And at Fort Dix, like it's an old army barrack. So it's a giant building, three floors tall that has a staircase on either side. So when the guard's coming up one way, there's lookouts and everyone's running the other way down with the phones and the knives and whatnot. How do you charge a phone? So this is why they didn't have an iPhone because you can't take the battery out of an iPhone.

1:27:09They had these LG Samsungs. And I'll tell you why Boost Mobile is still in business is because of prisoners. They would do the unlimited plan. Don't you have Boost? Yeah. Yeah, I do. I have the unlimited plan. So they're in business because of him and prisoners. But literally everyone has a phone plan because at the time, I don't know if it's true now though, but you didn't, you could put a fake name and just pay it. Yeah. Everyone's doing that and everyone's using Cash App on the phone. Cash app is huge and Western Union is huge because people put money on your commissary through Western Union.

1:27:37So you're paying Boost Mobile for these phone plans, which aren't linked to you or traceable, and guys would pop the battery out and they would convert the MP3 player, a little sand disc that they sold on commissary, into a charger where the battery plugs into the MP3 player, which plugs into either the light, like one of those fluorescent lights that you would have one of the guys in the electrical department unscrew and hook up to make it look like it's like it just in the light or whatnot, or you would plug it in at the computers because we had computers to email on and you, but that was more risky because that's like next to the CEO's office.

1:28:09But you would just see batteries all the time because the logic is if a battery gets popped, it's only four or 500 bucks to replace. If a phone gets popped, that could cost you thousands. You would see some guys get a phone and lose two phones in a week. It's pretty crazy. And then guys would make little pouches in their, in their pants pocket. That would be a guy's hustle making pouches for people. So if the guards padded you down, they would think it's just like your junk right there and not the actual phone. But if they have the wand on you, you're kind of screwed. And then there was the little pocket phones, like the little booty phones.

1:28:40Guys would shove up their butt or just walk around with it like on their hat, like on their skull cap and just do laps and have the headphones in. So how much is it to buy a cell phone in jail? So at a low security prison at the time, it was like$1 ,500 or$2 ,000 for an LG, like used Samsung more if it's a little new. But at the camp, it was 200 bucks. Now, this is 2016, 2017, 2018. It's probably way more expensive now. It all has to do with the economy and how things are doing with like shakedowns and stuff. Camps are obviously the easiest because there's no fence that's easier to get in. But I mean, also now they have drones and stuff.

1:29:20You see videos on TikTok all the time of people dropping in drones and whatnot. It's crazy. What other things did you see smuggled into prison? A lot of food, like Chinese food, sushi, pizza, good meals. Like we had a whole Mexican buffet one time. It was pretty crazy. We're just sitting in the cell eating this like tins of food, gym clothes, watches, jewelry. Pretty much anything from the street is considered like a high commodity item. Protein powder was huge because we would empty the creamer. They didn't sell protein powder, just protein bars on commissary, but they sold creamer jars of creamer.

1:29:56So you would empty the powder and stuff that with protein powder to hide it. So that was interesting. You get a lot of stuff on commissary, though, too. And how would you make money in jail? A lot of hustles. So you have, like, the guys that rent the cell phone. So say you bought a cell phone for$2 ,000. There's guys that can make thousands and thousands of dollars off that$2 ,000. They'll sell, they'll rent phone time to people for, say, 30 bucks, 30 mackerels, fish pouches, or three books of stamps because a book of stamps was$10 each. And you have this prison money. Say you have like 100 mackerels.

1:30:27You would then sell those 100 mackerels to, say, the bookie or to someone that is, say, wealthy and wants to use mackerels to pay for a haircut or their room cleaned or laundry. and they would send money onto your books on your commissary account for say 90 bucks. So that's how you convert prison commissary into real money, like street money. And then other hustles were like room cleaning, pay someone, everyone gets assigned a job, but most people don't work their job. They just have someone else do the job for them. So you pay that to them. There's pretty much anything is a hustle. The barber, gambling, the bookie is probably the biggest source of income there.

1:31:07You ever see anything really clever Stitching pouches is kind of interesting. Yeah, pillows. We don't have pillows. So people making pillows. I think the most clever ones are the chargers, the phone chargers, what these guys could do. Also, if you get someone on the maintenance team, because inmates run everything, the facilities and everything. You get someone on the maintenance team, you pay them like 200 bucks to come drill a hole in your wall or on the floor to hide your contraband or hide your phone or something like that. Where I had my phone was under my bunk. It was cinder block. We had the guy come in, drill a little slot, and then put the rubber, like, mat right up against it so it looked like the hole wasn't there.

1:31:41Wow. Things like that. Why don't you have pillows? I don't know. It's so weird. They don't have pillows. That's why I made a comment about the pillows on the beginning of the Mr. Beast video. No pillows. They have, like, in the mattress, they have, like, a slant type of pillow built in. But other than that, they don't have much of anything. How would you improve the prison system, having been through it? I would divide the politics aspect of it like gang members should not be mixed with non-gang members because then you have this whole Issue of politics being created more people getting recruited.

1:32:14I would kind of like cut the head off the snake Separate more of the violent offenders because what they're doing is they're mixing you get a violent people with people That are there for nonviolent crimes. It doesn't make sense And then also have more programs more rehabilitation. There's no rehabilitation right now in the prison system Do you think the prison system is set up to rehabilitate people or do you think that it just continues to like perpetuate cycles of violence and crime? It's definitely not meant to rehabilitate people. I mean, you look at their halfway house program was a great example where you're supposed to be released in the community before the end of your sentence, help find work, help get on your feet.

1:32:49They just kind of set you out there to fend for yourself. There's a lot of under experienced staff or little to no staff. There's more rules. like it didn't make any sense when I got to the halfway house for three months after like I got out there's all these petty rules about curfews and times and they make it so hard to find a job and you're not allowed to have a smartphone um you were but it was 2016 now could you not have a smartphone they want you to just have a little flip phone but you're already released to the world um there was just all these little things that just didn't make sense a lot of petty rules um when I got to prison I thought that there was going to be programs like you hear about these college courses.

1:33:25None of that's there. It's all just talked about, or they might have been there at some point, but they don't actually exist. I would say state prisons do a better job, depending on the state, than the federal system. The federal system's terrible. What about dating in prison? You ever hear the dating app, Plenty of Fish? POF. So that's like the number one dating app used by inmates in prison. It's so funny. People would make this a hustle. So you would see guys go on POF, swipe with people, match with people, and talk to them on the phone or do FaceTime dates. And they would hustle these women and get them to send commissaries.

1:34:02So this guy would be on call with one woman. She'd send 50 bucks. Then he would go to another woman. They're all sending money and these guys are making hundreds of dollars doing it. Then on visiting day, he would have like three or four visits in the day because these women would come and visit him. There's like, I understand there's this fascination with serial, with women sending fan mail and stuff. I saw that firsthand in prison with all of these individuals that these women obsess and latch onto who they've never met before and take care of these guys, send them money, come visit them. Granted, there are some guys that stick with their wives or girlfriends for a long time, but most of the time people are just meeting people organically, or they're also cheating on their wives or girlfriends by talking to other girls.

1:34:46How do these guys have so much pull? That's game. My understanding is that when you're dating, you kind of have to have something to offer to the other person. But if these guys are in prison for I don't know how long, what do they have? It makes no sense. Now, you might be hearing that AI is transforming work. But if you've actually rolled it out in your company, you know how it usually goes. You make the investment, everyone gets onboarded, and a few months later, no one's using it. Well, thankfully, today's sponsor, Superhuman Go, is actually built to stick. For those unaware, Superhuman Go is an AI chat that sits right on the side of your browser, ready to help you with any task that you're working on.

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1:36:32And it's just like what goes through these people's minds to do? Why do you think so many women are attracted to the guy in prison? Is it because there's like a mystique about them or like, oh, it's the bad boy? Or do you think it's, I could fix this person? I don't know about, I don't think it's fixed. I think it's just like that attractive aspect of it. And it's also another great thing or great question is female prison guards sleeping with male inmates. You're literally risking your career, your life. You have all these options in the world and you're going after these guys that are in prison.

1:37:06And maybe it's an attention issue. where these guys will obviously give the female COs so much attention. So maybe that applies to the people in the street. These women are not getting the attention they want. And these guys, they know they're locked up. They know they're in one spot. They think they can't cheat on them, but they kind of really can. Maybe not physically, but, you know, it's just, it's interesting. You didn't date around in prison though? No, I did make a Tinder and I did POF, but POF was too spammy. But then I made a Tinder and Snapchat. I would go live for my Snapchat. at girls would like send me nudes and stuff from my old in prison prison they just like people it just doesn't make sense you know uh there's just like that mystique with it and then like when i got out and got on a dating app because i had lost a bunch of weight and stuff girls like knew who i was because it was a small town they knew i just got out of prison and they were interested in that you know like when i was single a lot of my dms were from my target like woman that would reach out to me was a single mom, like in her mid thirties, has kids, but no dad in the picture.

1:38:09And that's who would DM me. So would you say then if someone's out there right now and they're trying to find a partner, but they're struggling with it, what they should do is find a way to go to prison and then create a Tinder or plenty of fish account to then find women to date once they get out in a few years. That's inefficient. You could just lie. Why? Just set up like a pseudo jail cell behind you, getting out in a week. Yeah, something like that. Or send you some commissary money. The whole dating thing is just like so weird, like in today's culture. But I think there is definitely people like someone that I think they like the redemption arc of like someone going to prison and coming out and getting their life together.

1:38:46I can't really speak for the people that are into the people that don't have their life together and are kind of like bums or have like six kids or something like that. But did you make any really close friends while in prison? Yeah, I met a few. Like I had my first bunkmate from Fort Dix. He watches my episodes and talks to me pretty often. I have another guy that was my bunkmate that worked with me in the kitchen that I talked to. We visit each other. He's in Chicago, but I've gone there. He's come to me. I've had like four of them on my show and I stay in touch with quite a few of them. A lot I've reached out.

1:39:17So it's interesting, those bonds, you know, just like my relationship with Lenny, I've built with other people. So of all of these things that you'd experience, such as lying to investors, going to court, going to trial, going to prison, and then doing the solitary, being in a Mr. Beast video for 100 days, being in solitary there, what would you say out of all of those was the most difficult? I think owing money, like at that young age, being in that much debt, failing to that level when you experience success. I really genuinely thought like I had that success and I was going up and up and up and I was going to be like something big.

1:39:58And I think to get kicked down and lose it all and really, I think that even beyond that is being portrayed as something that you're not. I think what really was the benefit of the Beast video is it got to show my true character and intentions at heart. I mean, on day 99, I had the option to take all that money and I could have paid off the restitution with that. And I didn't because of that bond I built with Lenny. And a lot of my decisions throughout that video were to make sure that, you know, like Lenny didn't get hurt too. I had to think of both of us. And I think when I went through what I did at my age, the news blasted me.

1:40:31It was very one-sided. They'd never got the full perspective. And I always made even worse decisions trying to do the right thing, but it was just not the right way of doing things. but having that amount of pressure and hate and seeing all those comments from people that you went to school with and that you were close with and really just you know making you feel really lousy and miserable about yourself and I'm not saying I didn't deserve that but some of it was a little bit extreme too and it was just definitely that was the hardest aspect I think of my whole journey. Was it a difficult decision to not split the money?

1:41:04So I wanted to take all the money as in a sense where like I wanted to win the lottery. You know, it was that feeling of it would be great to win the lottery, but I know I'm not going to. So in that moment is I want to hit this button, take all the money, but I know I'm not going to because that's not who I am. I'm not going to, I'd be no different than what everyone has said about me in the past if I took that money in that moment. Because he earned that money. He did the 100 days with me. I granted it was a show, it was a competition, but when everyone says like there's a lot of people in the comments are like, I would have taken the money.

1:41:38It sounds easy all said and done, just like saying you'll do a hundred days sounds easy. But when you're in the belly of the beast, it's a lot harder. But when you're living with someone for a hundred days, you form a connection, you know? Did you know that he wouldn't take the money? A hundred percent. And did you think he thought you would or you wouldn't? I think a part of him thought, especially after seeing the video, how Jimmy was putting it in his head, Jimmy wanted me to take the money because that would have been great content for him. He even said to me in the cell, he's like, dude, I'd love for you to hit that button because no one's done that before on one of his things on one of these hundred day videos.

1:42:10It would have been great content. If I had hit the button, it was only because I didn't want to be in solitary because I had such a miserable experience. It was literally PTSD. Like it was literally like a wave of emotions being back in there. But that 24 hours that last time felt way better than the four hours I was there the first time because it was a feeling of, I know I'm going home after this. There's not another 50 days I have to do. So that got me through it. I got sick as a dog that night. I ate something bad or something. I was literally because the toilets in there were like these little plastic toilets and they give you a tent to put up in there.

1:42:42So I was shitting my brains out at 12 o 'clock in the dark, putting my poop in a garbage bag and passing it through the door for the guard. But Lenny and I had talked about it, like if we were in a situation, we were kind of predicting something like that. We just send the money to each other. So I think he knew that even if I did hit the button, I would send him the money. like his half, but it would also, was that even legal? Cause we asked, uh, Jeff from beast games who won the money, you know, what's to stop you from just, you know, taking everything and then splitting it with someone. Yeah.

1:43:12So Lenny had brought that up too. I didn't read the contract. Like I just skimmed through it and signed it. I had like a couple hours to sign it when I got it. Um, but I think Lenny said that, that you couldn't do that. I don't know all the specifics. I guess I could read it now, but I mean, I probably would have done it anyways, but I also knew that how they would have painted the picture of me. You know that, was it going to make it at the video? Oh yeah, he sent the buddy to Letty, you know, afterwards. It was literally end with, I mean, look how they edited it. They did a really good job editing that to make it look like I left.

1:43:43And they wouldn't have put that in. They would have just said, Ian took all the money, that's it. And I would have, that would have destroyed everything I've worked for. I mean, the criminals would have loved me, but anyone knew, you know, they wouldn't have been too kind to that. What was it like watching the video back? so I actually got to watch a rough edit of it like the week before which I was surprised about but they kind of showed it all and we gave them like some feedback of hey do this or do that and it was it was interesting to see I like watching the reaction videos from people I've watched on the plane I watched a couple reaction videos that other creators did but I guess the sad part about it is like you you do so much I guess the sad part is you you you miss the moments that didn't make it in because you remember everything that happened over those 100 days.

1:44:29Like we did so much. There was so much that, you know, you're 100 days of your life. But I feel like they did an overall good job of getting the good moments. And I thought it was a really nicely done edit. I found it to be exciting. What are some of the opportunities you've gotten from that? So this goes back to like what we were talking about earlier about like why I wouldn't have taken it if I didn't have the episodes planned out. People, one of the things they sell you on, like when you're on the casting call, they're like, it's Mr. Beast, like this is a big opportunity. And this is how they can kind of, I guess, get away with the pressure of the timing, like giving you no time to prepare.

1:45:04And it's boom, boom, boom, boom. And I get that. He's a big content creator, like who's not going to want to work with him. But they kind of hold that on you, like it's this big thing that could change your life. And when you think about it, right? If you look at my following after Beast compared to before, like there's comments saying, oh, you got all this because of Mr. Beast. And that's not true. I had 1.2 million followers on TikTok before Mr. Beast. And I think I went up like 20 ,000 on TikTok. Audio downloads and stuff, I'm up 20 % since the release over the past week, which is cool. And my YouTube's up.

1:45:38I put on like 15 ,000 subscribers. But conversion wise, I went up like 3 ,000 Instagram followers. It's not as big for the exposure that it is, it doesn't really convert that well. I think Madge's video is the exception because he became one of them, like one of the boys, and he was physically posted. They don't tag you in anything. I'm not tagged in any of the posts. Any following I got was because we were working the channels all day, responding to comments, making posts, putting out clips, doing like the solo episode, like me interviewing Lenny and me talking about my experience solo and responding to as many comments on the Beast video, but they don't promote you in that sense.

1:46:16I mean, perfect example is a guy that won Beast games. I think he's got 60 ,000 followers on Instagram. That was one of the most watched shows in, what, prime history. You would think that that would convert to a lot more on YouTube, on Instagram. It's just that following doesn't convert. Maybe it's the audience demographic or whatnot, but I look at it as if I tanked my YouTube channel for three and a half months to do this, would it have been worth it? And I think the answer is no. I think it's probably also like attachment to the person in the video itself because Majd like lost all this weight.

1:46:46And so now people are curious to see like how is that going to all play out. Whereas in this situation or in Beast Games, it's more about like the competition itself and like other sorts of things. Also in Majd, like he had very high emotional swings, ups and downs and stuff like that. So you feel like a lot more of a connection with him. It's tied to the personality. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with that. You know, I'm not complaining. I'm very happy. um my i think what i've built and and having that flow i think it helps me get in the door for new opportunities like going on bigger podcasts and just kind of like um stabilizes you with like just in general working with a creator like that and everything um i think it's good and that'll live there forever and it'll open the door to more things how are the comments in your video you said you were responding to people um so the comments were pretty interesting uh not so i there wasn't like too many negative comments it was just a lot of people calling me like a fake criminal like on the repost like on those big uh news article ones that drop like on world star or like whatever those big you know uh pop culture ones were um people calling a fake criminal or how easy they could do it um or how like everything's scripted or staged um people thought it was scripted or staged which you know it wasn't um there was comments about how everyone i think the biggest topic of conversation was the ending of would they have taken the money or would they have screwed them over and i know a lot of my new subscribers i came to my channel and watched the videos appreciated that i didn't screw them over and that they enjoyed watching my content after sir any advice you have for someone who's going to jail yeah don't do what i did um which is you know definitely figure out kind of like the prison politics of it um figure out who you need to kind to like associate with who you need to, you know, be involved with and definitely don't gamble.

1:48:32Gambling gets you into a lot of trouble in prison. Even dealing with any type of contraband, doing stuff you're not supposed to do and kind of just like observe the environment and see kind of watch and see before you jump into everything and know how to move around. Do you have any prison habits you still practice today? I guess one thing is maybe like food. Like I'll like I'll eat quicker because I'm used to like eating quick and then like getting off off at the table because the chow is so small and you're kind of trying to clear the room for the next guy or you're hovering over your food. I guess I would do that.

1:49:07Definitely don't sit to pee anymore. It was weird going in the shower for the first time after prison because of flip flops. You use flip flops that whole time because the showers are gross. Even the Beast video, I use flip flops every shower for those 100 days. so being able to keep your feet in a regular shower was nice so i would have no idea what other little things like that do people not realize so like the toothbrush like jimmy had us use a little baby toothbrush for the full 100 days normally in real prison he would be able to you get the state-issued toothbrush toothpaste deodorant which sucks like the bob barker smells terrible or has like no scent we had to use it the whole 100 days because on commissary on day 40 he offered us a Colgate toothpaste for 10 grand with like, um, real deodorant, one toothbrush.

1:49:53What are we gonna do with one toothbrush? So obviously we didn't buy that. Um, but we had to go the whole a hundred days with that, which was really rough. Imagine using a thumb toothbrush for a hundred days and like the little baby soap and everything. That was terrible. But there's things like that. Um, also I guess, you know, living on a bunk bed, you can't like sleep on your back or on your stomach. My bunk bed would always like hit my bed when I was sleeping on my stomach because he would always say like the booty bandit would come and get you um things like that there's all those i said the same thing to jack too don't sleep on your stomach if you're in prison is there just a general like air of distrust around like like like how how difficult is it to just go up to someone be like hey talk to me straight like how's it going tell me about what's what your life this and that like can you really connect with people is there always like this like little under under feeling of of like distrust and and like in danger i think there's always that feeling of distrust i was too trusting of people i thought everyone was my friend and it's those same ones that are your friends that will slip a kite or plant a phone on you um or steal out of your locker um or anything like that um or set you up um there's obviously a few genuine ones i think those are the ones you keep the friendships with the years later like i've been able to, but the majority of people are just trained not to trust anyone.

1:51:16Can't blame them for that. You know, it's a lot of snakes in prison. There's a lot of scumbags. You see that with like these jailhouse lawyers, um, just everything, you know, everyone's out for themselves. And I guess in an environment like that, you kind of have to be. Does it help to have tattoos in prison? Didn't help me. It didn't help you? No, because I guess the way I look like my face, my body doesn't really match my face. That's like a big comment on my social media. I guess for the most part, I guess it would help people, just not me in my situation. Did you ever get into a prison fight?

1:51:46Just that time I got slapped. I didn't really fight back. And I got cornered like a couple months later by a bunch of like the newer car guys because of that whole drama. Because I had hired one of the guys in their car to do the protection over me. And that caused drama and like prison politic type stuff. Never got a prison tattoo either. I was thinking about it, but it kind of sketched me out. But prison tattoos are pretty legit. They would use like the guitar strings as needles. And they'd get like real ink smuggled in from the street, which was cool. And they would use like the radio to make a tattoo gun.

1:52:16That's safe. These people sound smart. What's stopping these people from going out and having like productive careers where they're an entrepreneur or they're making money, you know, like once they get out? Is it just like like these this culture is just instilled in them to like don't trust people, you know, steal from people or whatever it is? These guys are so smart. I mean, you see a lot of these guys making hooch, this thing called white lightning, which is like distilled honey or whatever into like vodka. They would do all of these things and make thousands of dollars in there and send it.

1:52:47A lot of the Mexican people will send it home to their families. They'll do so well. And then when they get out, they just can't convert that in anything. A lot of the drug dealers I interview, like they're super successful, build like these empires, I guess you could say, go to prison. And then they just can't figure it out after. It just doesn't click for them. Some do. Don't get me wrong. Some do. but a lot of them don't. And then that's when I think they're, I think the problem is, is that quick money. Um, once you experience that, that's kind of hard to, you know, go away from. I think that's really the biggest issue.

1:53:18I tell all the people that I talk to that asked me for advice or want to get into content right away. I said, go work a regular job first, go work as a dishwasher in the kitchen. That's what I did for 15 bucks an hour working at, at a hot bar at Whole Foods. And then eventually I worked my way up to a manager where I was making 30 bucks an hour. But I was able to rebuild my life, build my credit, get a dog, get an apartment, get a car, do all these things just off of a normal job and be a contributing member to society. And that was a very humbling experience. I think if I got out and if I got cast in the Beast video the first week I got out or started making money on social media, my attitude would be completely different.

1:53:55Was there anyone you met in prison who was innocent? I me personally I haven't met anyone that was innocent but I have interviewed people and talked to people that were actually genuinely innocent and literally every guy you meet in prison and I know I was one of them that was like I'm innocent I don't deserve to be here but I did get to witness like in 2016 the Obama pardons where people literally serving 20 years got to go home that day because he reduced it down to like 15 or 12 like the drug time times I think there's a lot of people that are over sentenced guys with 2034 40 years, crazy sentences for a minimal amount of drugs.

1:54:31But truly innocent, I think that's a dime a dozen. I think you'll see that more in state prison because the feds are very thorough. I wasn't around too many, you know, and I think that's where the cases you see like those convictions on. But all the I would say all the fraud guys, I'm innocent. It didn't go down this way or that. And when you read about them, when you get out, I don't know, it kind of makes sense, you know but I get their perspective too like I was one of them and for the longest time my whole thing was like I didn't have the intent to do it but I still did it and people still lost money because of it so it doesn't just because I didn't have the criminal intent doesn't mean it wasn't wrong and became a crime in that because even if a crime is accidental it doesn't take away from the fact that it's still a crime and you broke the law so that was one thing I learned from that.

1:55:19Do you think there's any better system than prison? Like maybe like a you know, like a home sort of stay, like what do they call it? I think I've talked to a lot of people that were like in the state system has really good work release programs where you're working. That's how it should be. Like if I spent those three years working, paying a piece of it to restitution and a piece to like maybe the government, like for the funding of the monitoring or something, but it really should just, most people I feel like could be house arrest, good monitoring type system, like a GPS type thing and just work, work a job, you know, monitor communications.

1:55:55There's got to be something with AI that could be even better at this, but the prison thing doesn't make any sense for the really violent offenders. Yes. But for the average amount of people, no, it doesn't make sense at all. That's why camps are the most pointless thing ever. I mean, granted, they are closing down a lot of camps right now. I know Trump's doing that, but it just, the camps are so silly. Imagine spending 10 years in a, like a adult day camp where you're just spending your time playing sports, doing bocce ball. And I don't know, just like living the life, I guess, you know, but you owe$50 million to investors.

1:56:29It just doesn't make sense. Yeah. So it's more practical to have that person just work and see, I think they should be in those cases working. All the money gets funneled into like a federal owned bank account. Money gets taken out from there automatically and they pay you like a wage. Yeah. And you see a lot of I speak in a lot of like these men sober houses and stuff and some county jails that have these programs, which are great, where guys are on a work release program. They get to work. They also get to pay some expenses to the facility, but they also have money to give their kids Christmas presents or birthday presents or actually account for their money and have a card to order stuff.

1:57:08But it's still structured. That's how I feel like it should be. I would have much rathered work those years. It just makes way more sense. But the current system doesn't really make sense at all. Thank you. I appreciate you coming out here on short notice. I'll link to all of your info down below in the description. And also, if you guys haven't donated yet to Team Water, there is a link down below in the description. Come join us. Donate. It's almost up. How much does he have left to raise? I feel like we're going to hit it. $40 million in the month of August. So if you want to be a part of that, highly recommend it.

1:57:45Link is down below as with your information as well. Yeah, thank you, guys. This was a lot of fun, man. Thanks for inviting me. Thanks for coming on. That was a blast. Thank you guys so much for watching. As always, we can't do this without you. So it really means a lot. Thank you guys for watching. Oh, one more thing. Okay. I'm kidding. Till next time. Bye.