“They’re Liars!” Mizkif Breaks Silence on $36,000,000 Loss, Allegations, & Controversy

17:03Robby:they fund his account i'm guessing so it's 50 million dollars per year it's about four million dollars a month how much of that four million that they give him per month are they expecting him to gamble well like how much does can he whittle it down to can't whittle it down to like slots

17:15Moises:yeah yes he could 100 but he doesn't because he also is a huge gambler that's the thing that these companies want they want you to push it but they also want you to be addicted to it and xcc is very addicted to gambling so he was doing it off stream he was doing it on stream and he was just gambling sometimes millions of dollars a day i think his total account was like a billion dollars now i believe xc's money that he would gamble was actually his money but some streamers don't do that some streamers gamble with fake money and that's where a lot of people have problems is like well you're not gambling with your own money and that is disingenuous because you're acting excited a lot of times it's not really your can they not keep the profits if they're not gambling with their own money that's usually what happens is the company will say look you can keep the profits.

18:04Moises:So that way they do seem excited. But a lot of times what they will also do is, hey, you will give you, let's say,$50 ,000 for three hours and you just play with this 20K and then just leave it in your account.

18:18Robby:So I saw a clip of a streamer that made$40 million on a spin on a slot machine.

18:24Moises:Yes.

18:24Robby:Do you think that that's just fake money?

18:26Moises:No.

18:26Robby:That's real money. I know that exact clip you're talking about, that's real. And he made$40 million.

18:32Moises:He made$40 million.

18:33Robby:And then he probably whittled it away.

18:35Moises:Yes. I know who you're talking about. He is a huge gambler. Yes. He probably whittled it away. But I mean, he's also getting paid from stake monthly millions of dollars, I'm sure, to promote it. So he's not whittling anything. He's making millions and millions a month streaming on kick.

18:50Mizkif:So what was it like getting a$36 million offer like that? I I mean, that's like multiple generations, life changing money. If you could go back in time, would you have taken the$36 million?

19:01Moises:It's really hard to say. I actually don't think I would. And the reason why is back then I had a tremendous amount of young viewers. I was very popular with like the Minecrafters back then. But then I ate this like autistic toy on stream. I chewed on it and they all hated me afterwards. And I'm like, all right, if you're going to hate me for that, you're going to hate me for everything. But before that is when I got this deal. and it was a lot. It wasn't just like a small, like keep in mind, $36 million. Yes. It was basically, hey, ruin your career for$36 million. And I can do that on my own. I don't need$36 million.

19:33Robby:You'd rather just chew a toy.

19:34Moises:Yeah, I'd rather just chew a toy and they all fuck off. I got, that offer was basically, hey, we want you to make a hundred hours of gambling a month. It was, it was not some like, do this once in a while and tweet. It was like, no, we want basically your social media. Let's sell it for$36 million for two years. So it was, it was much more than that. would I have be happy with that I don't really think I would um you know I didn't don't get wrong 36 million dollars is a ton of money but the amount that they wanted and the deal itself was just a lot it was it was a tremendous amount of work I'm just saying I think from your

20:07Robby:perspective I wonder because I mean effectively you lost 36 million dollars I'm curious if you could go back in time why why not just go take the 36 million aka three million dollars per month go and just do penny slots the entire time and not get excited when you win it and tell your audience, by the way, guys, I think this is completely stupid. Tune in next year. Tune in next year. You could. Like that would have been phenomenal content. You could have talked about anything, played, you know, gambling on half the screen and then like YouTube videos on the other half and you're just like spinning the entire time.

20:34Robby:Yeah. And they're talking about this and then there's a disclaimer or something. By the way, this is sponsored and also like I could care less about this. I'm trying to take$30 to$20. Like that would have been legendary to walk away from that. Don't do it funny,

20:44Mizkif:especially if you talk about how bad gambling is and how addictive it could be and like how you shouldn't be doing it.

20:50Moises:But does that work though is the thing

20:51Robby:when you say it's bad?

20:53Moises:You could win 10 cents and be like,

20:54Robby:oh, look, I just won 10 cents.

20:56Moises:Plus I guarantee you, because these companies,

20:58Robby:they would have stopped at a month.

20:59Moises:They would have stopped at a month and they would be like, if you're really just doing penny slots here, like go for yourself.

21:03Mizkif:They'll find a violation in the contract.

21:06Moises:Or they won't do contracts at all. I mean, a lot of these companies just do like, hey, here's the crypto, right? So I necessarily don't know if that would have made a, I definitely couldn't have done that. I definitely would have to gamble real money. I'd also be bored out of my mind. But back then, would I have done it? Probably not if I can go back. Would I do something smaller? Probably. Because I think for myself back then, I was very against it. Also, nowadays, my viewers are a lot older. So they don't care as much. Like, oh, well, I'm like 30 now, Miz. I don't give a f***. When before, it was like a lot of them were like, I'm 16 years old.

21:41Moises:And a lot of those viewers just went over to Aiden Ross. Is what I guess. or speed. I don't know.

21:47Mizkif:Now, really quick, I just want to say that I always ask myself, what does the future hold for business? And the thing is, if you ask nine different experts, you're going to get 10 different answers from a bull market, a bear market. Things are going up to going down. Be very helpful to have a crystal ball.

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22:57Robby:So on the topic of the people that are really bad with finances, which apparently not very many, But then let's talk about who I think is the person that is best with their finances, which is Asmongold. I mean, realistically, I suspect he's making a million dollars a month. That's what I think. And he's still eating dollar steaks. Yes. So he's probably saving 99.9 % of his income, basically. But for what? I agree. I mean, I think he's shortening his lifespan by eating those dollar steaks and maybe not brushing his teeth. I don't know. but I think that that's a little bit dangerous because he could be improving his life, improving like getting more sunlight.

23:34Robby:I think that's what makes it appealing though. Sure, it might make it appealing, but at the same point, I think, didn't you have a video where he like showered and it got like millions of views? I think people want to see him, you know, be healthier and like. But you say that, right?

23:47Moises:But let's be honest, if you watch a fat man lose weight, it's exciting until he loses the weight, right? Like, you got to understand that if Asmogol becomes this prim prime person and starts living in a lavish house or a nicer house or he changes his style, people are gonna be very proud of the progression. But once they hit that goal, it's like, okay, but this is not who he was. So he keeps that narrative of this is, I'm this gross guy and it's smart. It's his business. It makes him unique. Is it a narrative? No, he's really like that. I mean, he is genuinely a person that lives in his house and he will, in my opinion, in that house.

24:22Moises:He loves that house. He loves the way he lives. I don't see him changing. I think he can change a little bit. He might eat like a piece of broccoli every two weeks, but I just don't see.

24:30Robby:What does he do with the money?

24:33Moises:I personally believe he probably leaves it under his mattress. You don't think he's investing? No. Like doing something smart with it? No. Have you talked to him about it? Yes, I promise you he's not. Or I just don't think he cares. I think between Kick, his normal money he makes, and everything else, that dude genuinely does not care about money. He cares much more about the growth of his channel and the success of his stream than he ever will money. He didn't care about money when I first met him. He just never cared. Because for him, he knows this is the life I live and it's$3 ,000 a month.

25:04Moises:And he doesn't want more. Now, I think it's wrong. I think it's wrong. It's wrong. I think it's admirable. I don't think so. It's not admirable. We've had talks with him. He needs to spend more money. He's lived this life for a while. And I think it works in your 20s, right? That lifestyle, the generacy, sitting around, you know, you're jerking off and just hanging out with your friends. but the lifestyle he has now, he's a 35-year-old, 36-year-old dude. It catches up to you at that age. And I think he knows that. So I believe he's taking steps to get better but I also know the dude probably just is going to continue doing it the way he does.

25:40Moises:He's not a guy of change ever. Does he get a lot of interest from women? I'm sure there's a lot of women that are some blonde chick that probably wants to cheat on her Republican wife that would probably f*** Asmin in a heartbeat. You know, I'm sure that's the thing. I know Asma. I know he likes Asian women with big boobs. So that's who he's going after. So if you're an Asian girl with big boobs and you want a nice man to feed you roaches and coughing with spiders in it, he's all yours. He'll make you a$2 steak and you can have it as well. Because he's not taking you out to dinner. I promise you that.

26:12Robby:So he has a natural apprehension to spending money. It's not the fact that he doesn't care at all and he just wants to hang out in his house. But it's that he's like genuinely apprehensive of spending money.

26:21Moises:I think it's just he just doesn't. I'm telling you, man, I've never heard the guy care about money. Whenever there's a deal or opportunity, he would just like, dude, you got to realize like this guy. No, he would have hundred thousand dollar sponsors. And he'd be like, I don't want to do it. Like it's three hours. Why? I don't want to do it because I just want to go to bed. you're not going to stay live for three hours to do a hundred thousand dollar sponsor nope doesn't want to do it so he just wouldn't do the sponsor for three hours it's like any game he's had offers for like half a million dollars for the dumbest like just stream our game and put a youtube video up he's like nah don't want him and he doesn't do it because he just does not care about money i think he cares much more about his power he has and his political views and his growth of his channel and i think he knows that if he money is kind of in his way for that because that can make him not care about as much you know if he puts if he cares about money what will happen is that takes away from his profile who he is and i do think he's going to care about a little he has to he can't just keep doing this lifestyle forever he'll die and he knows that like he can't be this degenerate 16 year old boy that he still acts like sometimes but uh i don't think he's going to change i don't think he's going to look like you one day with a nice haircut and you know a polo shirt or something you haven't seen jack's living room though my living room is fine graham that's that's how what asman says i mean he cleaned his house once and he got canceled once and cleaned his room but i and i but i promise you it's probably the same what do you think it would take for him to clean up his his house get canceled again it's probably his like method i don't know for me i hang out with um uh two asian daughters that i have in japan and I just make a bunch of TikToks for him, I think it's just cleaning his room because then they're like, oh, he's changing.

28:13Moises:Good for him. And he just goes back to normal. So what about for you, though? How are you investing your own money to try to like grow your channel and your brand? The thing is the difference between me and Asmin, right, is Asmin Gold is a react streamer. You go to a stream for him reacting to the news and reacting to videos. His cost of expenses is very low. It's nothing. It's electricity, right? But my cost is a lot higher because people go to my stream. they don't go to my stream for me to react they don't go to my stream for me just watch videos and sit there they go because i have collaborations they go because i'm trying to do cool stuff and that's what i like to do i don't like reacting anymore i used i did it for six years i'm bored of it so what i'm trying to do is i'm trying to go more of a route of finance and this is actually when i called you i was like i want in because i'm 30 now i don't want to pretend to be 21 anymore i'm not trying to pretend to cater to this like younger audience the phase kids all that stuff because I just find it kind of cringe.

29:10Moises:Like I'm 30. I'm not a 21 year old. They can do it because they're young. But for me, I'm 30. I'm almost 31. I want to do something where I can age into, not where I'm trying to grasp onto what I had. And I think a way to do that is finance. I think that's a finance business stuff. I opened up a gym a year and a half ago. It's called Ironforged Gym. No one thought we can do it, but it was super successful. It popped off on Twitch and YouTube. Everyone loved it. And now we have 1 ,000 members, despite there being eight gyms around us. We have 1 ,000 members. We do MMA fights. How profitable is that?

29:46Moises:Not a lot. Gyms are a waste of money. Please do not buy a gym. Because the problem is you have to have so many members because you have to buy all the equipment. The cost is ridiculous. It's like$800 ,000 in equipment. It's a good write-off. It's a good write-off, but it's extremely expensive.

30:01Mizkif:So, okay, 800 ,000 equipment, then a lease you have to sign, and then a build out. So you're in it, what, one, two, one, three? Yeah. Like everything all in? Yeah. And then our lease is five years, I believe.

30:14Moises:It's not – was it worth to do for content and stream? Yes. Was it worth to do because we got 1 ,000 members and we're slightly profitable? Yes, because we're growing still. Okay. We were at 800 members or 700 members a few months ago. Now we're at 1 ,000. And it's not because of me anymore. Now it's just word of mouth, which is the best part. But it was fun content. I loved it. The chat was learning business. I was learning about business as well. I'm not going to pretend I know everything. And we really made a brick and mortar on Twitch, which was the first time ever. Someone truly brought and made a brick and mortar.

30:46Moises:And it's successful. How much is insurance?

30:49Mizkif:No idea. You don't know how much. Someone drops a weight on their foot and they say, you know, it's your fault. I'm going to sue you because this is California.

30:58Moises:I'm a big believer in hiring people smarter than you. So this guy that owns another gym right next to us around that area, I was like, hey, why don't you come in with us? You're good on stream and you run the gym. So he does all that. But the gym was a success. And it's going well. Everything's fine. We are slightly profitable. We're using that money to continue to grow the gym a little bit because I don't really care for the profit of a few grand. So the gym is great. And I saw that. I'm like, wait a minute. This is awesome. chat learned something they learned business i learned something because that's what i hate about streaming is you're basically trying to pretend you're a young teenager or you're like in the like late mid-20s or like late or like early 20s right you're trying to pretend you're something that is farther away every year you're trying to pretend that you're this you know young person that is friends all around when like i've known these guys for nine years most of them aren't friends, right?

31:57Moises:It's a game. So I was like, I just want to, when I had 30, I just want to do stuff that progresses me. And the business was awesome. Chat loved it. I loved it. So I'm like, well, what else could I do? And I was going to do a, I was going to buy a house and fix it up in LA. And I called you and you told me that's a terrible, terrible idea. And I think you're 100 % right. Awful idea.

32:21Mizkif:Yeah. When you look at the amount that you would be paying an interest, the amount of property taxes, the restrictions. I'm going through right now, believe it or not, I didn't listen to my own advice and I built out an ADU in Los Angeles and I looked at the numbers and the numbers were fantastic. Like I'm talking, I'm gonna make a more than 12 % cash on cash return on my money with very little work on my end. Going through the city of Los Angeles has been the biggest nightmare of my entire life. If I could just go back in time and just tell myself, don't do that. It's just, it's the mental headache.

32:58Mizkif:It's not, the cash is great. It's just the mental headache of going through the city of Los Angeles has been awful. It has been the worst experience of my life. And they say, we're in a housing shortage. We want you to build. There are all these incentives right now to build a property in LA. I think, oh, it's great. I'm going to take advantage of this because my return is going to be so big for this one specific project on a property I already own. Perfect. Impossible. The city inspectors don't want to work. It's like just getting a phone call back could sometimes take a week. Everything goes to voicemail.

33:31Mizkif:It's awful. It's a whole antiquated system.

33:33Moises:You dodged a bullet on that one. Yeah, well, you helped me because I was going to do it and take a loan out, but then I called you and you told me not to do it. And instead, what you told me, which I greatly appreciate, you said, you know what you should do for content? Because I'm like, look, I want to get in the business. I'm not sure what to do. What do you think would do well on stream? And you're like, why don't you fix a car? Because that's what's blowing up on YouTube right now. And I didn't really know about it. I'm like, yeah, that sounds great. I can learn maybe a car thing. But I looked at the videos like, holy, this is huge.

34:02Moises:I didn't realize repairing cars is such a big deal. Yeah. And how well it's doing. All these channels are getting millions of views. Matt Armstrong is leading the charge. Yeah. So I'm like, yeah, why not? So I bought a car on abetterbid.com. I bought a car and it was a up Lambo for$145 ,000 after all the, everything was said and done.

34:23Mizkif:So I saw that. So my logic when I told you that was that I got really inspired by Tavarish, who bought the P1, Hoovey's Garage, who buys like clunkers and then fixes them up a little bit. And then our friend Bia Heza, he bought a Lamborghini and an i8 and he fixed it up himself part time. And his video was incredible. And I saw that. I'm like, oh, my gosh, that's like I would be doing that if I had more time and I had the editing skills that they have. and so that's why I recommended it to you on that car man, I think you overpaid for it I mean, I did that's the issue, that car I would say in my opinion should have been worth just looking at it just seeing it on the thing 115, I think would have been a safe bet because then there's enough margin there where when you overspend on it you're going to be like coming out ahead or break even You're right.

35:19Mizkif:But that price, because you could get like a fully like a nice one for 210 to 220 with a higher mileage. But like you're going to spend too much money on that car.

35:30Moises:Here is my problem, though, is I really wanted a Lamborghini Huracan to fix up because I think it's good SEO. But what I also think is good about it is I just I do love Lamborghinis. Like I always wanted one. The problem is getting one on a better bid and having it to be content because that's opportunity cost because I have no content. So for me, it's very tough to figure out what to do next. And I'm like, okay, I know this is going to be a little bit pricey. When I was bidding on it, I'm like, this is going a little bit higher than I want. I was hoping for like$120 in total,$125. It went up to$145, and I was really hoping it wouldn't.

36:06Moises:But opportunity cost, if I wait for another car, now I have to stall for a month of content, and that's stress that I don't need, and that's money that I'm not making because I'm not streaming. So I was like, why not just buy the car? So I did bid on it. I did win it. and it blew the up all over everywhere, which made me really happy. And I didn't realize how many car enthusiasts are because I've started posting TikToks and it started blowing up. I started posting just like an hour long video of us fixing up the car and it started blowing up. But what was great is West Coast Customs messaged me and they're like, look, our guy, the CEO's son is a huge World of Warcraft fan.

36:41Moises:He watched Love's Only Thanks. He likes Only Thanks. And I'm like, you know, he's like, you should make your car here. I'm like, that's perfect. That's best content scenario is the biggest car place in the world is making my car with me. And it's been awesome. Like, I'm going to make a whole series out of it for months. So it was worth. But I do agree with you. Did I overpay? Absolutely. Why not go on Copart? That's what I did. It's a Copart. Better bids. I'm stupid. Copart. Okay. I'm on a Copart. Okay, you did.

37:09Mizkif:Yeah. Okay. Now, when Jack and I started the Ice Coffee Hour, now almost six years ago, we had to figure out everything ourselves, from the best cameras to use, the best editing equipment, how to get guests every day had a brand new challenge. That's why if you're starting or growing your own business, you know how valuable today's sponsor is, and that would be Shopify. For those unaware, Shopify is basically your all-in-one business partner. They power millions of businesses worldwide, from major brands like Mattel and Gymshark to everyday entrepreneurs just getting started. And fun fact, if you shopped online in the United States, chances are you did business with Shopify because they power about 10 % of all American e-commerce.

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38:18Mizkif:Turn your big business ideas into... So if you're interested, sign up for your$1 a month trial period at shopify.com slash ICH. Again, that is shopify.com slash ICH with the link down below in the description. Thank you again to Shopify for sponsoring this episode. Dude, the West Coast Customs thing is big. Like you have, like even for me, West Coast Customs was my entire teenage years was watching Pimp My Ride. I know. And it was all West Coast Customs. And I would look at those cars and dream of like, oh, man, one day if I have a car that's West Coast Customs, that would be the thing.

38:52Moises:Well, you know, on the first day I went there, it was fun. The people there are great. They're so charismatic because they're used to being in front of cameras. Chief Keef was there. I was like, what's up, bro? So I hung out with Chief Keef for like a second. I told him I'd make his Lamborghini for him. He probably forgot me in two seconds because he was whatever. He wasn't paying attention. But there's always celebrities coming in. So there's there's chances I would see them as I make the car. It's a whole new thing. And my chat, I didn't know how much they would love it. They love it. They're so attentive.

39:24Moises:They're typing like crazy. Hey, like, get this part, do this, do that. They love the whole process. And I'm like, wow, this is great. You're learning something. I'm learning something. And we're building something together that is not stressful for me for streaming, because the thing that sucks about streaming sometimes and being the content creator of more IRL, you have to find out what the are you doing that day? What am I really going to do that's going to make these people want to watch me? And that's so hard to do, especially as you get older, because your chat gets older too. And they're like, I don't want to watch you sit there and hang out with girls all day.

39:58Moises:That's what I do. Or I don't want to watch you sit there and play, you know, a dumb game. What do 30 year olds want? They want to learn about money. They want to grow their empire themselves, and they want to start a family. They don't want their politics. They don't want to deal with this. Back to Asmongold, he's very smart. He's a very smart dude. And he knows and understands these trends. Asmongold first started off as a WoW streamer, and he knew that WoW is not going to be there forever. So what he did is he started to react to videos, and those react videos did really well. Drama videos, gaming.

40:36Moises:He was really into gaming first like reacting to world of warcraft game videos then it was more gaming industry he's glowing he's slowly expanding okay now he's got more people watching gaming industry then from gaming industry he went to just the industries in general right started getting more into technology and talking about that and now he has the biggest web of them all which is politics and he's 35 years old right so that's smart to do because you're growing with your your age you need to do that because if you don't do that then you're just holding on to something you once had and that's not smart i think for for stream yeah i think it can come off especially a lot of times as like cringe where it's like oh well you're just trying to be this younger person you know you want to grow up and you also want a new directory of people that can watch you there's a lot of people who now follow me from the car stuff like i don't even know who the hell you are

41:28Mizkif:the car community is massive like our biggest episodes tend to be with doug de miro doug de Stradman, Dwarish. Yeah, but that community, because cars are like, everyone likes cars for the most part. Especially if you are into money, chances are you like cars. And if you like cars, it's probably you also like watches to some degree. And so all of it overlaps, but that is just really good, fun content. It's relatable and it's aspirational because when someone gets a Lamborghini, I always thought when I was a teenager, oh, I could get this salvage, like, you know, 2005 Lamborghini Gallardo for$50 ,000 and I can drive a Gallardo for 50 grand.

42:08Mizkif:It's like I could wrap my mind around how that's possible for me.

42:12Moises:Yeah. And I think what's fun about the chat is them seeing that don't do that. It's a waste of money with me because they're like, holy fixing this car is so damn expensive and Miz is wasting a lot of money. You're right. I am. But, you know, I can because I'm streaming it. It's you can't really lose because I'm just going to stream more or stream a lot if I need to make more money for the car. Dude.

42:33Mizkif:And there's so much you could do with the car too. Like straight piping the car, putting a wing on the car, wrapping the car, rims on the car. You could do so much. We just did a

42:42Moises:design stream. There was 20 ,000 people watching me just design the car and they were so attentive. They were watching it. They were making polls. They loved it.

42:49Robby:That is true. There's a massive community doing that on YouTube, but it hasn't really gotten to like the live viewer audience

42:55Mizkif:yet so you could kind of pioneer and the thing is just starting i hate to say low enough but with the hurricane that there is so much room to go up from up from there like now p like tavarish set the bar so high on youtube with a p1 yeah and now he bought a porsche 918 and that's like a 1.8 million two million dollar car and then hoovi just bought a 300 sl mercedes and it's like the bar on YouTube is now like plus two million dollars.

43:23Moises:Yeah. My bar is going to probably go lower after Lambo. Like what I want to get after this is like some early form of the Camaro. I think it'd be cool if you flip the car.

43:32Robby:I've been watching a lot of like the car. Oh, there's a guy, Doug something. He has a series right now that's like blowing him up, which is buying or flipping cars until I can afford my dream car. And they're really, really good videos. And they're getting Yeah, they're getting like a million views a pop. He went from like, I think he literally zero subscribers to like 100 ,000 after the second video in the series. It's crazy. How much are you going to spend on a Lambo? Right now, get up to 15 % off Select Storage Solutions. Put heavy-duty HDX totes to good use, protecting what's important to you.

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44:31Moises:To fix it and to make it running, it's about$65 ,000. To do all the cool shit I want to do to it, which is get a kit. I want to get a wide body kit for it and some air suspension and also new exhaust possibly and tuning it, you're looking at another$100 ,000. I would tell you not to do all.

44:52Mizkif:I tell you just get it running enjoy the car then wrap it. But it depends how much money he's making from the stream. I'm just saying, you're not going to get a positive ROI on a wide body and tuning the car. Not everything's about money, Graham. Tuning the car, I'm going to tell you, a big waste of money. I agree. The resale on that, I mean, listen, the resale's already kind of messed up, but you mess it up even more when you're like, you got a salvaged car that was in a bad accident, and you tune it, and it's going to make the car slightly less reliable, and it's harder to flip.

45:23Moises:But if I can do two streams tuning the car,

45:25Mizkif:I'll pay for the tuning. But you could do two streams wrapping the car, or you could like wrap it. I don't want to wrap it. Why?

45:34Moises:Because it's cooler that you have a wide body kit that you get from Tokyo. that's like a it's a it's gonna be a one-of-one custom car that's the whole point of west coast customs you're doing something you completely unique this car is gonna be one of one if i just get a wrap it's boring i'm gonna get like i want to make this thing look sick as hell yeah but can't

45:51Mizkif:you get a different body kit on it like make it look like a different car like uh see i'm not

45:56Moises:smart with cars so i don't know but every guy who's telling me says my car is sick and i should keep it and to me yes i'm spending way too much money i'm not i'm obviously know that there's gonna be some finance comments saying you're stupid but to me it's good content and that is worth the money now is that worth a hundred grand to me i don't know that's a good question depends on my videos do would you say is streaming harder than a nine to five yes i'm not i'm not kidding you is that like a hundred percent resound yes well here's the thing it depends on the nine to five. You go to an average nine to five.

46:36Moises:What does that even mean nowadays? Right. I have friends back home in New Jersey, whether nine to five is they wake up, they're on their computer for maybe two to three hours a day. Half the time they're doing something else, watching YouTube videos or even streams. That's their work. And they pretend that they do eight hours a day, five days a week. It's I know what they do. Nothing that. Yes, my job is harder than a lot of people's fake tech jobs that they have, where they're writing chat, CBT emails, where they're just answering a bunch of stuff for maybe an hour to a day. Yes, my job is harder than that.

47:10Mizkif:What would you compare it to?

47:12Moises:You're an entrepreneur. You don't stop working. I'm always thinking about my stream, my content, how to grow, what I can do better, if this is good content, because that's what it takes to be a top streamer. You need to be working 24-7. It's not a job. It's a lifestyle. Streaming has to become your life. If it's not, you will never make it. You have to make sure that you're always caring, always trying to do more, always trying to do better, because that's how difficult it is to do nowadays, right? It's impossible to get into streaming.

47:40Mizkif:I agree with you. I think it's not just being in front of the camera, but it's also strategy, title, thumbnail, and you have to constantly think about it. And if you're not working harder than everyone else, you're going to fall off and no one's going to watch you.

47:54Moises:It's a lot of stress mentally. It's a lot of pressure mentally, the reward is there for sure, money-wise, right? But it's a lot of stress, pressure, dealing with stuff. And what's difficult about it is not necessarily that you have to go live. It's you have to go live and put on a show. Now with all this pressure, with this stress you have involved, you have to entertain for eight hours straight. You know, you have a bad day, you're not feeling good. It doesn't matter. You have to go live and you have to put on a smile and entertain for eight hours or people are staring you down in a camera or you have to hang out with people and do that.

48:25Moises:Most normal jobs, you can kind of fake it because it's a lot easier not having to entertain. You might just have to put on a smile. But for streaming, you have to entertain to keep the viewers there. So I would say my job is definitely harder than most nine to fives today. I would say is my job harder than a garbage man or someone that actually works construction or a job like that? No. I think that they work way harder than us because it's physical labor. I think those jobs are much more difficult. But a lot of jobs that are your mundane jobs nowadays that people work three hours and pretend they work 40 hours a week.

48:59Robby:Yeah, my job's harder than your job. So the whole environment of streaming is way harder to grow now, but you kind of, you had a really strong growth. I feel like when you're first kind of, I guess, started on that, that growth journey, what would you say are the top three things that you did in order to explode on Twitch?

49:16Moises:Well, I personally, when I, I studied Twitch, So I didn't just come into Twitch saying I'm a viewer. I didn't watch Twitch for fun. I watched Twitch to study what they do and how I could do it better. So I watched Twitch for about three years constantly learning what people do. I watched the top streamers, Soda Pop and Greek God X, Recful. I watched what they do and I said, how can I make that mine? How can I grow myself? And what I did is like, I have an idea. I was driving to Florida with my dad. I'm like, why don't I make documentaries on streamers? and what I'll do is I'll make it funny. I'll make it dumb, not as serious and I'll send it to them because they need content.

49:56Moises:That's the one thing that streamers need is content all the time and they love their egos being boosted. So I made the videos wholesome, sweet and funny, right? And I'll take the react of them, put it on my channel, slowly grow my YouTube and then hopefully become a streamer one day through that. So what I did is I made these videos. I made a video called Who is Tyler One? and I was with my friend named Glink at the time and he's like, dude, you know what you should do? Take this video and tweet it to everybody because I just finished it after two weeks of working nonstop. So tweet it and let's see what happens.

50:30Moises:And Tyler did not react to it. Michaela, who's his girlfriend at the time, did not react to it. Tyler's brother named E-Rob watched the video because he has no content and he drinks all day. so he watched the video on stream and he told his chat to go push it they did because they were like this video is funniest and it blew up from there it went from getting a hundred views in a day to tens of thousands to now it has like five or six million and i started doing that for a lot of the content creators at the time and it blew everything up i had from there uh i got invited to go on an rv trip with ice poseidon i'm sure you guys are aware who he is i went on an rv trip with him and then I basically started on Twitch with like 30 viewers but I had all the connections so I started just you know going in the chats and talking but I always knew I was like more entertaining than most streamers most streamers are kind of introverted and scared I knew I was better collabing so I just used that and my connections to slowly grow over time yeah yeah

51:28Robby:like how fast did it take for you to make turn it into a viable business uh it happened in about

51:33Moises:five months I knew I was gonna make it like I went from the from the second I clicked Photoshop and started making that video in Adobe Premiere to being able to say I could do this was about five months. But keep in mind, back then, there was no money on Twitch. The top streamers were maybe making$1 ,000 a day in ad revenue. It was not this business now where people are making millions a month.

51:54Robby:So when would you say you started making real money?

51:56Moises:I started making real money in 2019. And when I started, their sponsors started to pop up more because they realized this industry is really good to get into. And I remember there was a sponsor for DayZ on the Xbox. And I got$12 ,000 for two hours. It sucked. My viewership dropped dramatically. No one cared. But I got$12 ,000. And I'm like, wait a minute. If this keeps happening and I keep growing, I'll be rich. I can make money from this. I can grow my business. So that's when I realized that this is real. Because what's interesting is before 2019, 2018 Twitch to 2012, it was all through donations.

52:32Moises:There was no subbing. There was no ads. You just made money through donations. so a lot of the top streamers back then like wreckful or soda poppin they would get donations from these oilers we'd call them oil princes and they would be like twenty thousand dollars sometimes thirty thousand dollars huge donations that would just come in from straight up oil princes i had one one of mine his name was hamad and he sent an oil prince uh from saudi arabia and he would just give me tens of thousands of dollars when i was small what did he want he wanted me to be successful he's like i believe in you and he called me one time uh on skype in 2019 and he was in a rolls royce in the middle of the desert and he showed me his others and he had like four of the cars just sitting right there and then he went 100 miles an hour and he got banned on twitch where is he now he's in dubai do you talk to him still he comes to my chat he says what's up he puts this note called try hard which was pretty popular back then he puts that and just leaves like what's up bro but yeah i still talk to a lot of my old viewers

53:32Robby:they're around. If you were to be able to invest in three streamers right now, who do you think has the most growth potential?

53:39Moises:You know, that's going to be a question I don't even know if I can answer because the truth is, I think that with Twitch's massive decline in viewership, I wouldn't invest in anybody because Twitch is a dying platform. It's dying because of its ads and it's dying quick. Twitch is down 25 % this year. Twitch is continuing to fall since the peak in 2021, I don't think I would invest in anybody. I would hold my money and wait till GTA 6 comes out in six or seven months, and I would find streamers there. My belief is I think that Twitch is slowly going to keep dying. There's no good games. No one wants to watch it.

54:17Moises:But when GTA 6 comes out, I think Twitch is going to double in viewership in a day. And it's just going to hold that for a long time. GTA 6 RP is going to be huge. When you see that, that's when I would invest in those streamers. The small ones that are funny, interesting, bam. Now the market's hot, right? Who can I invest in to grow? That's where I would go. Yeah, but for streamers, couldn't that include Kik or going on like TikTok Live? Yes, it could, but I don't trust Kik's numbers and TikTok Live is you're there today, gone tomorrow. Twitch is something where if you are able to hold a community and you're consistent, you'll probably hold that community at least decently.

54:56Moises:but the thing is right now is people aren't really growing. The top streamers are not, who are so viral in every other aspect, TikTok, everything, they're only getting like 10 to 15K viewers on their normal streams. That's nothing. These guys are way bigger than I ever was. How many people are viewbotting? A decent amount. So Twitch actually recently took down viewbots and the views on every platform, a lot of streamers dropped like 20 to 25%. 5%. Viewbots have definitely taken over the website over the past few years. It has been something that most streamers have known about. But the thing is, and this is what people don't understand, is they think that it's always the streamer that does it.

55:37Moises:I know I get viewbotted. I'm not stupid. I know that there are people outside of me that viewbot me. Hell, I have been viewbotted before with a sponsor, right? So a sponsor will be there and they, you know, viewbot you so you look like you get more views. because who really is going to care? Let's say you're sponsored by Sony, right? They have a marketing department. That marketing department hires another marketing department who then finds your agency who then pays you, right? There's a huge line of chain. Okay, let's say this marketing team here boosts your numbers just a little bit and they report back to Sony and they say, hey, look, the numbers were great.

56:13Moises:Sony doesn't give a f***. They're Sony. So these agencies viewbot a lot of streamers all the time to upsell them like crazy. And that's what's happened a lot on Twitch. I don't believe a lot of these streamers know they're getting botted. I think the truth is a lot of the time with these streamers is the agency is the one doing it. It's also proven that viewers viewbot streamers all the time. Tyler1 was viewbotted for years by one viewer. His name was like Tyler, lol Tyler1 laughing at you. And he found out he was botting him and he banned him and he got pro-banned on Twitch and then Tyler's numbers dropped dramatically because for years this guy was just botting his stream.

56:55Moises:Why would he do that? He likes him. So he just wants to make him look better. Yeah.

56:59Robby:How expensive is it to view bot?

57:01Moises:It's, it depends. So there's embedding. Embedding is very expensive because you're paying for an embed. And then normal botting is super cheap. It's like, I mean, I don't know the prices. I'm not going to pretend I do know the prices, but I know it's not nearly as expensive to bot rather than to embed.

57:18Mizkif:Wouldn't it be obvious, though, if you're not just getting as many comments? Or do they fake the comments, too?

57:24Moises:So nowadays, there are bots that apparently can fake comments, and they can fake subscribing to you. So it's pretty crazy nowadays. It's not some small thing. There are some times where, like, you know, viewers view bot. Like, there's, I remember one time in April last year, 2023, I don't even remember, where I averaged 50 ,000 viewers in a month. because just some guy was just view botting the out of me hasan and pokimane all day i liked it i didn't care i was like cool i'm just gonna sit here and play you know minesweeper with 50 000 viewers i was just doing whatever the i wanted um but it's it's tough to say if it's obvious or not some viewers sometimes yes it's something that you can't really control and there's nothing you can really do and with your agency right it's like well i know this is happening i'm just not going to say anything.

58:13Moises:Like I've been botted by agencies before. I just don't say anything because I don't really care. Makes my numbers look better. And if it works for the guy up top, it works for me. And it's interesting because people are like, well, companies must hate that. That's fraud, right? That's fraud is a problem. The front page of Twitch is embedded. So if you go to Twitch right now, the front page is a carousel and companies will pay a lot of money to be in the front of Twitch. So that way, you know, they, their, their streamer might get an extra 10 ,000 viewers, but it's not real that everyone on the front page of Twitch is not watching that streamer.

58:50Moises:It's just, they're on the front page and not paying attention. Right. So they companies will pay for it. They know that embeds happen. A lot of times they just don't care because they're like, well, I'm trying to hit my KPIs to go to that agency and say, we did a good job.

59:06Robby:That's wild. I wonder if now some of the advertisers are becoming aware of this like fake viewing problem on Twitch. And that's why the AdSense revenue payout started going down and why creators are now putting a bunch more ads in. So fewer people and then they start botting. Yeah. And it's kind of like. I don't think that's it.

59:25Moises:I think the reason why Twitch is losing money is because there are. I just think in my opinion. I mean, I know some stuff that extra, but I believe that the return on investment for these advertisers is so low and Twitch asks for so much money, it's not worth it. They're going to TikTok where the KPIs are better, where they're getting better return on their investment for 10th of the price. That's true.

59:50Robby:I think a lot of the viewers are pretty AFK on Twitch anyways. And so like, you're not, if you're paying for someone with like 10 ,000 viewers, you're probably only getting like 2 ,000. Let me ask you this question.

1:00:00Moises:if I play a game you're paying me three playing a game on twitch for three hours right okay that first hour you may be like talking doing your talking points and people might be interested or not interested but do you really think they're going to be interested in the second hour or the third why are you still paying me it's it's it's a depreciation every single hour that you're losing that retention that the viewer might be afk that the viewership is continuing to go down because whenever you do ads, your numbers go down, right? So it's like, well, what's the return? And the answer is it's so low after that first hour.

1:00:34Moises:So companies are realizing, and what they're doing now is they're going based off of clicks. They're going off of other metrics. They're not just going off of viewership because they can't. And what's interesting is, because I own Mythic Talent, I own an agency, the best people who are in the industry that make the most money for sponsors through clicks is vtubers by far their community is gung-ho and just clicks on everything they tell you to they buy everything you say they are loyalist and they have so much money because they're all just a bunch of engineers that you know like vtubers they have a lot of money people that have the least are usually the younger kids now the generations that are 15 16 years old they don't have all this money in the world uh you know so they don't even click a lot of the time because they're on mobile.

1:01:22Moises:That's what a lot of viewers do on mobile.

1:01:24Robby:So you started a gaming organization back in 2020 called OTK. I'm curious, was that profitable? And what was the purpose behind doing it?

1:01:32Moises:So OTK, the point of it was to basically create an org where we all make content together. And then we would one day sell the org, right? We wanted to sell OTK to a company where it's like, hey, you're in charge of this now. And we basically take a step back at around this time of my age. I was like, I'm around, we're all 30, 35, whatever. We take a step back. There's new young blood in the OTK sphere. And we just basically chill. Well, that failed miserably because the truth is, orgs in general, just no one wanted to buy it. And it makes sense why you don't want to buy it, right? In 2018, it was such a hot word, org group.

1:02:13Moises:A hundred thieves sold for a hundred million dollars or something like that. They made a ton of money off that deal. but when we got in we got in too late and all the companies started becoming smart and they're just like okay well because it was me and asmin were the two biggest people they're like okay but what happens if mizkiff and asmin take a huge break and we're like oh well that won't happen well asmin did for eight months they know that they're like when asmin took a break you guys lost a lot what happens when one of your streamers gets canceled what happens when there's a controversy it it you over the whole business so unless you guys are squeaky clean teletubbies you're basically asking for this to be a failure and no one took the bite we did not get it we got uh the truth is it just didn't make sense for anyone to ever purchase and it didn't make sense to really run and operate so now it's very small i don't do otk anymore because i moved here they're all in texas but the thing is we still have mythic talent which is our agency that's under it's an umbrella so it's under it and we do have starforge systems starforge pcs they're huge they're everywhere uh they actually are great pcs and we started that business on twitch we actually got really lucky what happened was we made starforge pcs and we're all like part of it right we're all owners we're great otk and when we made the pc company we actually f***ed up real bad there was a piece in the computer that we didn't know was cheap when we first made the computers and this guy was a reviewer of computers and he was on twitch and he got clipped shout out to this guy who clipped this and he said and he was a big youtuber who exposes computer companies like i'm gonna ruin starforge and they these guys don't understand that if they just change this one wire from ten dollars to twenty dollars they'd have a great pc but they're being cheap as so we saw that and we're like okay let's just change that part boom everyone's like wait their pcs are amazing so we literally got saved by that guy clipping us and us realizing that then um linus tech tips reviewed our pc and we were scared we're like holy we're done he loved it he thought our pcs were amazing from day one he's like these are great pcs a little bit messy but nothing crazy and then asman reacted to it which then blew it up it went to like seven million views it's one of his biggest videos ever.

1:04:34Moises:And then from there, it's just been huge success. We sponsor streamers, we get a, you know, for a little bit and then they get a lot because there's no real computer companies on Twitch anymore. So we don't have really any competition. We just give people money and then we make a return on our investment.

1:04:48Robby:How much does the computer company make?

1:04:51Moises:It's in the tens of millions of dollars now, I'm sure. I don't look at it every single day, but I know it's a growing business that is continuing to grow and they are super successful. I mean, the dude, what do you get?

1:05:01Robby:Do you just get distributions or so every month?

1:05:03Moises:Oh, currently right now we do not get any distributions. We are literally putting it all back in because we fully believe this company could be huge one day. Like, I think it could be worth a hundred million dollar plus. How much do you own with that? I own a decent chunk of it because it's an umbrella under OTK. I'm not gonna say numbers, but yeah, like we all own a decent amount of every company that we own.

1:05:22Robby:So what percentage of streams do you think are manufactured content versus actual real organic, you know, behavior. What do you mean manufactured? Like sort of trying to get a clip and like exaggerated behavior or like even faked content. Do you think there's a lot of faked content on Twitch?

1:05:40Moises:No, I mean, it depends on the person. There's a lot of people that are trying to farm clips a lot. A lot of the younger guys, uh, that's because their audience likes it. They grow from it. Is it fake? It's improv. That's all it is. It's not faked. They don't fake clips usually it's more like this happened in this scenario and they're improv-ing it to get a clip i do it all the time like you're just figuring things out you're like that's a funny moment that's all it is most clips are just funny actions or moments the the new viewers new streamers are very entertaining they're good at what they do and they understand that clips push their channel very far so they just do more improv all the time they're not thinking necessarily what's the best stream they're thinking what's the best thing i could do next to farm a clip to bring out that improv side of me.

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1:09:15Robby:who would you say is the most overrated streamer right now uh probably me honestly uh who's the

1:09:20Moises:most overrated streamer i don't really know i don't watch a lot of streams i can tell you who i think is the best streamer right now uh i do think it's speed i think speed is the best content creator right now in terms of just what he's been doing and his movement he's had i think there's other ones too like there's this guy named stable ronaldo i think he's a we filmed on him yesterday Oh, really? Yeah. Genuinely funny witty dude. Like he, to me, is someone that I, he reminds me of myself when I was younger where I just didn't understand the world. He's like a non-jaded version of me. And I think he's a really good streamer.

1:09:55Mizkif:I was surprised because I had watched his content and it's obviously like I can't get into it. But talking to him, he's so strategic and like very smart, very calculated. He's a good dude. Yeah. He's not dumb. No, he's not dumb. Like he's very articulate.

1:10:10Moises:Yeah. He knows what he's doing. he knows how to play the game he's good with clips he's just a genuinely funny dude and he's I do think he has a lot of room to grow because I think when you go on Twitch there's a lot of streamers that you're like well this guy's probably better as a clip I think Ron is a great streamer I think his whole stream is just good when I watch it no he's too young for me to care right I'm not gonna watch a 21 year old all day but I also just watch Gossip Girl so who am I talking but at the same time I'm not watching Ron but I think he's a great streamer

1:10:39Robby:I've seen his streams I'm like yeah this guy gets it Was there ever a moment in time where you genuinely considered quitting streaming? Oh, yeah, all the time. I wanted to quit streaming.

1:10:47Moises:I started having ideas of quitting or retiring five years ago. And my dream was always when I'm 30, I'll quit. Because I said to myself, I know how mentally exhausting this job is because it's very mentally exhausting. And I was like, at 30, I'll have enough money to quit. 30, I'll retire. Well, I'm 30. and um it's not necessarily that i'm i'm not retired i just i've definitely taken a step back i stream six days a week eight hours a day but um i don't see myself retiring anytime soon retirement sounds boring i just thought about it i was like it's a great idea for about two weeks

1:11:24Robby:and then you're bored i'm curious being a pretty big person on twitch i mean you could say you have celebrity i imagine there's a lot of really interesting opportunities that come alongside that what would you say are like some of the craziest dms you've gotten from people is that i'm a celebrity because i'm like that's just not true i'm not a celebrity no i think that you have celebrity right like if you go and like i mean they were literally like five minutes ago people were like freaking out as they were walking by i don't know if that was because of this guy maybe that's because of us you know maybe like oh my god yeah i don't know i mean they were yeah but anyways i think that i'm sure you get a lot of crazy opportunities and dms and stuff like that What would you say is the craziest opportunity like that?

1:12:00I mean, I don't really think that opportunities,

1:12:05Moises:but yeah, like this thing is streamers are just so transformative with their content that we're just so well known, right? Because you guys make a video and then you have to like make clips yourself or try to organize how to be strategic. Dude, with streamers, we just have clippers that just clip our shit because they're trying to grow their brand. You know, stake logos are on our shit. We can have, I can make five TikToks in a day just by being an idiot on Twitch. So for us, it's so easy every day to make content that we're just so known now. But yeah, like I get recognized all the time. But those people don't watch me and they're like, oh, wow, dude, I love this stream.

1:12:39Moises:Half the time they're like MiseKeef or MixKeef because they just seen my clips. And yes, like I'm very well known. I walk down the street, people sometimes, most of the time.

1:12:57Robby:a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks gemini and chrome is here for it ready to make anything online make

1:13:07Moises:sense there's no place like chrome check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18 plus people recognize me but it's never really it's not usually in a way of like i love your content it's like i saw you play mario 64 four years ago on a clip or like yeah your sister's was showing and I saw your face. It's, it's never like a genuine moment. It is sometimes don't get me wrong, but most of the time it's, it's just clipping.

1:13:33Robby:That's so interesting. Cause I feel like whenever we get recognized, it's like they watch the podcast. And so they see us once a week for like two hours a week. And so they know a lot about what's going on. It's very rare. Like, Hey, aren't you that one guy?

1:13:47Mizkif:It's so funny. Every time people come up to me, they're like, did Jack get a girlfriend yet? They always ask about your dating life.

1:13:55Robby:Speaking of. So is Jack dating someone right now? Speaking of, I'm curious, how is it dating as a streamer?

1:14:00Moises:How is it dating as a streamer? It's terrible. Really? Oh, yeah. Why? Because you, it's, well, when you date someone else that's a streamer, like you want to usually date that someone understands your business or like what you're going through, right? that's hell because what happens is twitch is a high school that's all it is it's a glorified high school you have the people sitting at the lunch table with the nerds the geeks you have the people that are losers um you know you've got the sports guys whoever you have all these lunch tables at this table in high school that's all it is it's just a high school and if you date someone what happens is you know friends pick sides usually in that high school that's what happens they leave you or they leave them so when you break up with someone it usually put the whole feng shui of the website almost and it can cause a lot of drama or indirect problems for you uh throughout your career and it's definitely done that for me it's definitely done it for a lot of other streamers i will never date another streamer again in my life dating i mean there's a lot of women so it depends on the streamer i'm one that i bring on a lot of women and i also use women a lot on stream so a lot of women do come to me being like i'll you just bring me on your stream um but i'm very against straight up tell you that well it's so obvious so like in my dms trying to hang out with me like off stream to then like be like oh come on stream or how do they know how do you know

1:15:28Mizkif:they're not just genuinely interested in you bro i am not no way i'm oh there's no way you don't think there's any chance they're like genuinely or half the time these girls that are trying to

1:15:38Moises:go on my stream they have like husbands and they're like yeah i want to you basically just for the flirt with me and then be like call my stream and then they make money. I've had a girl come on my stream sometimes I make like 10, 20k in a day just going on my stream. Because my viewers are coomers to the max. They're just Twitch chatters. They're like ooh boobs and they go nuts.

1:15:54Mizkif:How do they make the money though? Is it like a funnel

1:15:56Moises:to an OnlyFans or something? Yeah, the OnlyFans. They just bend over real quick be like you dropped your controller and then I'm like you, you made more money than me today. That's really what happens.

1:16:04Robby:Do you get them to pay you to come on your stream?

1:16:06Moises:Biggest regret of my streaming career is I never made an OnlyFans agency. I f***ed up. Why don't you start one now? Because I feel like there was a time for that. I'm a car guy. Now you're a car guy. I just don't want to do it. It's like I've done it for seven years. I brought on OnlyFans Girls and did that. I'm not trying to redo that again when I've just slowly gotten away from it. What do you think of Jack Daugherty doing that? Oh, you asked me who's the worst streamer. Jack Daugherty. He gets 300 viewers and he's still the worst, most overrated streamer. He sucks. He's actually a s***. He's like a terrible person.

1:16:40Moises:What do I think of him? I think any girl that's with him is very sad. I think he's a sad human being in general. And everyone feels that way. He's just a loser.

1:16:47Mizkif:Like he's the worst. Do you think that perhaps there could be some strategy behind what he's doing? And he has this persona. He is. It is strategy. It makes it talkable.

1:16:56Moises:Yeah. No, there's definitely a strategy with what he is. But I also know from firsthand from people who hung out with him, he's just a dick. Like it's not just this like, oh, I'm a strategist. It's like, oh, well, I'm this piece of let's use this. because he's just a dickhead. So I will say in his defense. Listen, anyone that's willing to do what he did to like bothering people on the street, you're a dickhead. Like you're just a bad person.

1:17:18Mizkif:So I will say in his defense, five years ago, we had him on the podcast and it was an early podcast, like eight o 'clock in the morning on like a weekday. And I was thinking, because I was not familiar with him and I saw his content. I'm like, there's no way this kid is going to be on time because I saw him pulling pranks to neighbors and like disturbing the peace and that. I thought he was going to come in late, was going to be just like disrespectful. My gosh, he shows up like five minutes early. He's so kind, so nice. Now granted, that podcast was five years ago, but like he really seemed sincere, like back then in person.

1:17:58Moises:It's easy to fake for two hours.

1:18:00Robby:I mean, we spoke off camera and everything.

1:18:04Moises:He might be sincere to some people, but he also could I genuinely believe that kid was a nuisance since day one I mean he just I've seen his videos from 10 years ago he's still a prick like just a dick kid that doesn't have to grow up I you could tell me all you want that he was good on your podcast I'm sure he was because he probably saw opportunity but he was just that guy you know when you dangle views in my face I'm

1:18:27Mizkif:gonna change because I can grow especially when I'm small what about like people like Vitaly or Johnny Somali. Streamers like that that are now in jail.

1:18:37Moises:Do I... I mean, I truly believe that... I mean, you know how it is. Fame and attention can really f*** your brain up, and I think those people are just mentally deranged. I mean, Vitaly doing what he does and did what he did, and same with Johnny, it just blows my mind that it's a reality. And I don't think they were like those terrible people before, but it definitely was brought out through streaming. You know what I think it is? It's like drinking, right? It changes People say that drinking is just a personified version of who you really are and what you're thinking, right? I would say it's very similar to streaming as you get an ego, as you get more famous, as you want to push that envelope.

1:19:13Moises:You just continue to get it as a worse person.

1:19:16Mizkif:You know what I think it is, is that to continue growing to that degree, you have to keep one-upping yourself. And there's just a point where you can't keep one-upping yourself without getting in trouble.

1:19:26Moises:It's also that these content creators feel that it's their only way to get into the space. like who's really being that of a person because if you are you're probably getting some pretty insane national news right it's hard to get into the space being a good person you go live and try to be funny or chill out and relax and play minecraft you're not going to get anywhere so you have to do what's crazy to make it work so they just take the most toxic communities in the world the four channers the whatever you want to call them the swatters the doxers and they just go with them trying to make a community and it never works like they get like 200 viewers but

1:20:00Robby:to get all this hate. So speaking of being swatted and doxxed, what are your experiences with that? I imagine, I've always had this theory, well, it's not really, I mean, most people would probably agree with it, that I think the relationship between like the diehard viewers and a streamer is way more parasocial than like a viewer of a YouTube channel. Yeah. Because they're spending time with you for eight hours a day or whatever.

1:20:22Moises:I mean, you can argue and say that some of my viewers have seen me more than they've seen their parents in real life. Yeah. statistically. If you've been watching for eight years, you've watched me constantly, you've seen my face more than probably you've seen your parents' face.

1:20:37Robby:What are some of the craziest experiences that you've had? I'm guessing you've had, you know, probably stalkers or, you know, people that dox you or people that swat you, like with relationships with fans.

1:20:48Moises:I've had a lot. I mean, I started with Ice Poseidon where we just got swatted every day on an RV bus. We had M4s put on our head while we got out of a bus multiple times. I've been swatted dozens of times. Swatting has gotten a lot less over the years because the technology has gotten better to find the swatters. A lot of swatters have gone to jail. So people are afraid to do it and they should be because it's way more difficult. A lot of police now know about swatting. Back then it was not really known. So they're not as stupid. And a lot of times the streamers call the cops and say, hey, I'm this streamer.

1:21:21Moises:I live at blank. Just want to let you know there might be a dumb call one day about me. And they usually will call you first and then I'll hang up and then it's fine. So it's definitely gotten way better. But when it comes to stalkers, I've had plenty because it goes with having streamer relationships. It goes with being close friends with other content creators and their stalkers start going after you. I've had stalkers come to when I'm going down the elevator in Austin, Texas, waiting for me at the bottom stairs to talk to me and say that like they're here for XYZ or they're here for me. It's been a lot.

1:21:59Moises:What do they want? Friendship, relationship. They think they're in love with us or that we're in love with them. They're schizophrenic usually, so they truly believe what they're thinking. I've had encounters with stalkers that are at hotels for months that are just waiting for us to come outside. We've had encounters where someone moved close to us for months that we didn't know about just so they can talk to us. And then they went bankrupt and had to go back to their country because they just didn't have a job. They were just waiting for us to hopefully one day reach out to them. It's crazy stuff.

1:22:31Moises:And mine are bad, but there's some streamers that have way worse stalkers than I do, primarily girls, way more stalkers than we ever had or I ever had. Yeah, hearing about Pokimane,

1:22:40Mizkif:like the length she goes to to make sure that they don't know where she is. Like I heard, maybe she said this, that she had to like remodel her kitchen so that people couldn't reverse image search

1:22:52Moises:her backdrop to find where she lives that's the thing it's very easy nowadays to find your address like i don't even try to pretend that people can't find me at all times because it's just so obvious like uh i don't try to hide it i don't try to fight it i just know that like yeah you probably know where i live i don't really care um but i'm also a guy right for girls it's way different for girls it's like that's a that can be scary that could be death some of these streamers viewers are insane. You know, they write to them, they call them, they'll harass their family for years. I don't really have that.

1:23:27Moises:I don't, I'm not interesting enough to do that too. I don't think people care. I'm curious.

1:23:33Robby:On the topics of streamers and their fans, what about stream snipers? Who is Dr. Pepperman? I know he's given you Dr. Pepper quite a few times

1:23:42Moises:now yes it's very very very popular clips i get recognized for that from kids like dude dr pepper guy like what i'll be honest i don't know him i have no idea who he is he has never contacted me i've never contacted him no idea i don't know him i should look like he's just some kid from i think new york or somewhere why was he in japan i don't know i have no idea i've never said a single word to him because the thing is that is good content don't mess with it right if it's a good thing don't mess with it he comes in he gives me a dr pepper he opens it i drink it it gets a lot of views don't mess with it i don't message him he knows what he's doing i know what

1:24:27Robby:i'm doing i don't care what the rest is don't you don't you want to know you know like how is he making money how do you get there because there's no sponsors no brand deals no ads no nothing he He's like a, he's a mystery.

1:24:41Moises:Yes. And I would like to keep it that way. Like it's up to him if he wants to do something with it.

1:24:45Robby:But to me, it's not my job to expose that. I saw this one clip of someone who tried to chase him down. And then she started having like electrical issues with her stream. Like she was trying to follow him and film him. And then like no one had ever done that before. And then the first time someone did it, like literally their footage started like, it looked like it was being disrupted by some like EMF thing.

1:25:06Moises:It's like glitching out of a cut scene. Don't do it, right? Like, well, let's watch the cutscene. The cutscene is he walks away. You don't know where he goes. I saw that clip where she tried to follow him. Why do that? Like, you're ruining something good. He comes in. It's funny. It's interesting.

1:25:20Robby:He's the only good thing we have left.

1:25:22Moises:Right. So if you go and what she did was trying to follow him around and, like, where is he going to go? What car? It's like, come on. Let the guy make his bit and leave and keep the mysteriousness going. I will never message him. And he'll never message me. And I don't think he's ever messaged any of us because I don't want to know what he's doing. If he comes in, I say, what's up? And I take Dr. Pepper. Listening to creators who'd make OnlyFans drives me nuts. Why? Because they don't work at all. At all.

1:25:50Robby:It's basically like posting an Instagram picture.

1:25:53Mizkif:But here's the thing. I'm sure people could look at you and be like, oh, but my job is so hard. I don't make millions a year. I could do that.

1:25:59Moises:And they're probably wrong. But OnlyFans girls. Maybe you're wrong with some of that, too. I'm not. I've seen them do what they do Here's what they do They have someone posting their stuff In the Philippines At$2 an hour pretending to be them all day So that way the dudes that are messaging them That are like I want to f*** you They're just going to some 38 year old dude in the Philippines Then They just go to a photo shoot Maybe once a month And just do all their videos and pictures in a day Maybe two and then they go home They have nothing to do the rest of the month So if you were a hot girl would you do OnlyFans?

1:26:35Moises:There is no question. I'm the biggest whore imaginable. I would not give a... Of course I would. Actually, I wouldn't be a big whore at all because that doesn't make the money. It's better to be scandalous. I would be like, you know, flashy, show a little bit, but not too much. I would totally have an OnlyFans. Yes. No question about it.

1:26:51Mizkif:Yeah, I was blown away when I saw Sophia Reign on David Dobrik's blog. It was, what,$83 million in a year and a half.

1:26:58Moises:Now, don't get me wrong. Some of these girls work really hard because they're constantly making videos, TikToks, posting. They are doing a lot of stuff. I know some girls like this girl named Morkpi, who's a friend of mine. She's working at 12 hours a day on Twitch. Then she goes offline and does videos and TikToks and posts. They're also girls that straight up do nothing.

1:27:16Robby:I'm curious though. Also, you did turn down the stake deal or the online gambling casino deal and lost$36 million. But I'm curious, I'm curious, what is the biggest stake deal that you've heard of? I told you it was XQC. It's like$100 million. So it's that. officially xqc 100 million dollars over two years yeah i mean there's other streamers i'm sure that

1:27:36Moises:have made close to that but xqc's was just the most profound known one how much do you think

1:27:40Robby:he's gonna walk with at the end of two years because he's gonna gamble a lot of it like i

1:27:44Moises:probably 200 million because you got to realize something like yes he had that money but he put he got it in ethereum ethereum's only skyrocketed over the past year wow but what about i thought he's gambling with the money. Sure, but he's not gambling $100 million. So he's gambling, and I'm sure he's maybe, let's say, he's a little bit lower or break even or maybe he's above. I don't know, but he got it from Ethereum two years ago.

1:28:09Robby:So he's not bleeding millions a month when he's gambling?

1:28:11Moises:No, not at all. Because while he's streaming gambling on now, his two-year contract's over. Now, if he streams gambling, he's getting paid. So he's using that money to just gamble with Ethereum.

1:28:22Robby:Do you think that he's the wealthiest streamer?

1:28:24Moises:Yeah, it's not even a question. XQC is the wealthiest. more than Aiden Ross. Yeah, for sure. I bet XCC's worth like$200 million. And I bet you Aiden, the thing is like, I don't know, right? Like Aiden Ross could be. To me, it's like they're both the yin and yang. They're both the richest streamers on Twitch or in the industry. Nothing like Speed or Kai? I don't think Speed's worth, I'm sure Speed's worth millions and millions of dollars, but I just don't think it's that much because he does short streams. He doesn't really promote anything. He promoted a crypto scheme a while ago. I don't even have money on that, but that was like five years ago.

1:28:59Moises:Kai is definitely worth a lot of money, but it's nothing compared to XQC and Aiden Ross. They just, they're deep in the gambling that you can't beat it.

1:29:06Robby:So let's talk about you and your finances over time if you're open to talking about it. Sure. When did you start making like crazy money? 2020. 2020. And what was revenue looking like? Where was the money coming from?

1:29:19Moises:It was all sponsors. Sponsors and then back then, a lot of it was advertising on Twitch. You run ads. so I was making a lot from that 20 ,000 to 30 ,000 subscribers a month on Twitch that's 3.5 times 20 which is what like 80 ,000 or something so I was making a lot on Twitch sponsors were very heavy back then because they had nothing to spend money on besides us because COVID was happening so where did they put all their money towards streamers I did almost a sponsor like every other day because they didn't have anything else to spend it on there was no TikTok stuff nothing was happening and everyone was talking about twitch all day i mean i would sometimes sit there with 40 000 viewers doing nothing because they're just like yep we're bored we have nothing to do so what was the most you ever made in a month uh the most i ever made in the month is probably like 900 to 800 000 wow yeah how uh sponsors i mean i could have made way more there's i turned down a saudi arabia deal which i regret turning down that was 500 000 to go and then it was like 400 000 to come

1:30:19Robby:back it was like 900 grand or something so what do you mean to come back like it basically if you

1:30:24Moises:took the deal and then you went and then you did the whole thing like you didn't just do a little bit of it it was like a week or something i had to go for like some fortnight thing then you would get 900k so it was like 500k up front and why'd you say no because hassan piker that piece of was like blah blah blah don't do it and i'm like damn it and then i got a hate thread on twitch and back then i was a bitch so i said all right i'm not doing it and i regret it because i wish I did it. What was the issue with it back then?

1:30:48Robby:Saudi Arabia is a bad place. Because women, you know, they can't drive and stuff. They were inviting

1:30:54Moises:one of my friends to come with me who was a girl. I was like, damn it, dude. I lost a lot of money.

1:30:58Robby:I know a lot of comedians actually just got invited to Saudi Arabia. Tim Dillon is going to Saudi Arabia. There's a massive comedian thing happening. Yeah, like a big performance over there. That's funny. Where I think the Saudi government is paying them. They just want to like up their... They have so much money and they want to like entertain with like Western entertainers. yeah they have infinite cash yeah i mean they they they're doing this they own the the live golf right yeah the massive golf thing that's like competing with the pga yeah they just have a bunch of money wow i don't know i don't think they own pga i think they own live right yeah

1:31:30Moises:but they're yeah they have infinite money um i regret that but i made 900k in one month that was the most i ever made something like that 800 or 900k uh i could have definitely made more back then but i also thought back then like the money was gonna be infinite forever on twitch I always thought like, dude, money's money, whatever, because like I'll have so much money and I'll have, it'll be forever. But that changed dramatically over the last few years. Advertisers have left Twitch. People don't subscribe as much. Numbers are down dramatically as Twitch goes on. So I make probably like, I used to make like 150 to$200 ,000 a month on Twitch.

1:32:04Moises:I'd say I make like anywhere between like 40 to 70 K now, or maybe probably even less. And I still run, I run double the ads I used to.

1:32:11Robby:So that's your total earnings right now about$50 ,000 a month. Your total earnings right now are about$50 ,000 a month. $50 ,000 a month.

1:32:20Moises:Yeah, it's about like$50 ,000 to$60 ,000, I would say, a month I make from just Twitch. And then there's sponsors where that's most of my money nowadays is through sponsors. And YouTube revenue is just a little bit, but nothing crazy.

1:32:33Mizkif:Does that skew your perception of money when you go from making so much to having it drop like 80 %?

1:32:39Moises:Oh, yeah. No, it's definitely changed me. Back then, money just felt like paper. I just like, I want something. I'm going to get it. But nowadays, I definitely take a second to think, right? I was like, hmm, I could walk to this podcast or I could take a Lime scooter, but I'm probably going to walk, right? Because you want to save as much money as possible. So I do think about money now when I just didn't before because it was endless. What were you doing with it back then? investing it that's all i did good i invested all my money i bought boxes for nintendo boxes they didn't go up in value uh but they're pretty much stayed the same i was big in collecting before everyone else was like 2019 i loved collecting boxes nintendo stuff so i have a huge collection of nintendo but that's not why my investments i have been investing in the s &p 500 for years my big thing is if it drops one percent i always put money into it um i was big in nvidia four or five years ago.

1:33:38Moises:I, yeah, I've made a lot in my investments. Have you made more in investing than you have from streaming? I would say yes. If you, because the thing is with streaming is I make a lot more for sure, but I spend a lot. Sure, you net, yeah. But my net is definitely way more through stocks. I've quadrupled my stocks in the past few years, I'd say. Last year I made like 70%, I think, I forget. Something like that.

1:34:01Mizkif:Oh, because of NVIDIA probably, right?

1:34:03Moises:A lot of it was NVIDIA. I was in some Bitcoin ETF or fund. And then, yeah, my portfolio has been going up a lot.

1:34:12Mizkif:Dude, you got to give Jack some tips. Huh? Yeah, give me some tips, dude. Help him. Tell me what stocks to buy.

1:34:17Moises:Oh, bro. I mean, listen, I have a manager and then I have my own. You know who actually tells me a lot of stock stuff? It's my chat. So do you have a number in mind that you're trying to hit? My number is like, I want to be able to make enough where I feel like the 5%, If I just put it in like low investments, I would be like living very lavishly. It's like 15 million, I would say, is that number to like truly be able to say I would be totally okay. I don't think I'm gonna make that through streaming. I'll probably just make that through my investments. But yeah, I would say like 15 million is what I'm looking for.

1:34:49Moises:I feel like you would be there already investing as much as you are with NVIDIA. I'm getting there. It's not there yet. it's probably a few more years away or like a few like two or three years away if the market keeps going well but who knows right it can also be dead tomorrow like it could be trump could just say some stupid it's a good buying opportunity it is it is the hard part like i said is funds nowadays i just bought a lamborghini if you heard about that making that sort of money you said

1:35:17Robby:money just felt like paper what were some of the craziest expenses you spent money on oh i bought

1:35:21Moises:dumb i bought this world of warcraft armor for like 10 grand for no reason i mean i just bought this Lamborghini that was, you know, apparently going to be like 180 grand. I, um, I didn't really have a lot of dumb expenses that I'm like, I truly am stupid for this. I don't really think so. Cause a lot of things just like my boxes, they went up in value a little bit. Like I didn't really lose anything on that. I would say my biggest waste of money was my pool. What a waste of money that was. I bought a pool in Texas, an absolute waste of money. I never used it. It never got used. It was expensive.

1:35:56Moises:It was cracking. The company that built it didn't even have a license, I found out, at the end of it. And they don't need one, which is crazy. And now there's this huge thing going on in Texas where a lot of pools that were built in like 2020, 2022 are having this like cancer is what it's called in the cracks of the pool. Where there's actually a class action lawsuit going out for this one company because they're mixed up. So therefore, everyone's pools are cracking.

1:36:24Robby:How much did you spend on the pool?

1:36:25Moises:Like$200 ,000.

1:36:27Robby:$200 ,000 for a pool? It just depends how big the pool is. That's the high demand.

1:36:30Moises:It's an uplifted pool is a thing. And it's ugly. I hate my pool. Yeah. But that's also peak pool time. Yes.

1:36:36Mizkif:Materials were hard to come by. Labor was hard to come by. And everyone wanted a pool because they're a home. And they would finance the pools too. Like you could put 0 % down and finance the pool for the next like five years. Yeah.

1:36:47Moises:I wasted my money. Did not make my pool, my value of my house go up at all. Waste. No one used it.

1:36:52Robby:What's the most you've ever spent on a dinner?

1:36:55Moises:I don't know bro I'm a very when it comes to food I eat simple like I'll eat like chicken every night

1:37:01Robby:but I imagine you know you go on a date like what's the most you spent on a date I don't spend money on a date what do you do on a date Netflix that's it

1:37:10Moises:like a first date I mean if I go on like let's say we go out somewhere how much maybe 50 bucks 60 but you can't bring them to rich ass places like that that's when they start getting in their head that like oh he's just gonna treat me like a goo-goo doll like doll. You got to go low. So I don't give, I don't show them any. Okay. So how are you,

1:37:28Robby:how do you meet a girl you're going on a date with? I usually just go out to bars. I don't

1:37:32Moises:ever use them up at a bar.

1:37:33Robby:I know I've never had Tinder in my life. I actually had Tinder in college. That's it hinge. Nope. So you're saying you go to a bar and I imagine once you're at the bar, you're getting recognized and stuff, right? Here's what happens.

1:37:44Moises:I go to a bar. I try to find someone. I start talking to her. She's somewhat interested. My goal is to use my blue eyes to hopefully hone in like a light that someone recognizes me so I look cooler. And then usually within like a five to 10 minute radio or timeline, someone recognizes me and goes, you're Ms. Kiff. Bam. Now there's a conversation. Wait a minute. Are you famous or something? Yeah, it's whatever. And that's how I get laid. Do you go out to the bars alone or with friends? No, I'll go with friends, but I will leave the group immediately because I don't go to bars for fun. I go to get laid.

1:38:13Robby:So you have the confidence then to be able to approach a girl just like that? Yeah, of course. Okay, so let's say I'm a girl at a bar. Let's say you're approaching me. What do you say? I'm just like doing my own thing. You know, I'm drinking, whatever.

1:38:47Robby:Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

1:38:56Mizkif:You show them your Robinhood account? No, I go like this.

1:39:03Mizkif:Oops.

1:39:05Robby:Oh, you dropped a... Let me see that. What is that?

1:39:09Moises:See, that's what they do. And they grab it. It's a carrot card. You dropped a carrot card?

1:39:14Robby:I'm like, you have a carrot card?

1:39:15Moises:Yeah, the Robinhood card I have now is really good.

1:39:18Mizkif:The gold one?

1:39:19Moises:Yeah.

1:39:19Robby:What do you get on that? 3 %? You get 3 % on your Robinhood card?

1:39:22Mizkif:Yeah, it's 3%. It's a great card. Like, actually, it's a legitimately good credit card.

1:39:27Robby:Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, I'm just using, like, a Discover It card right now. I'm getting, like, a percent and a half.

1:39:31Moises:So I'll drop the card, and usually that starts the conversation. Because I'm like, oh. Is that actually how you start a conversation? No, it's not how you start a conversation. Or I'll be, like, drunk and just go up to them and, like, okay, like, I met a girl the other week in Austin. We went to 6th Street and I'm like drunk and being an idiot. And this girl had this chain that she wrapped around my neck and left it there. She's like one of my friends. And she's like, oh, look, you're my bitch. She's walking me around with the chain. I don't care about getting demasculated, obviously. So I'm walking around with this chain around me.

1:40:04Moises:And there's really hot girls sitting there eating macaroni. So I just go up to her. I'm like, yo, can you please help me get away from these people? They're freaking me out. And I basically started talking to her. And I go, where'd you get the macaroni? And then blah, blah, blah. and then just went from there.

1:40:16Robby:That's hard. And did you get recognized when you were talking to her?

1:40:18Moises:Yes. The guy who made the macaroni recognized me.

1:40:22Robby:So it's pretty much off to the races at that point.

1:40:25Moises:Yeah. And that's when you didn't even have to drop the card. But you have dropped a card before. Yeah. Dozens of times. Dozens of times? What's your success rate? With girls? Pretty high. I go up to girls I usually have a pretty high chance of getting with them. Unless they have a boyfriend which The chances decrease a little bit? Usually better actually for some reason.

1:40:44Mizkif:How?

1:40:44Moises:Because girls cheat. Do they really?

1:40:47Mizkif:How often? How often do they? So I think girls cheat? Yeah. All the time. Give us a percentage.

1:40:53Moises:I think, isn't statistically girls cheat more than men? No. I think so. What do I cheat on? I think it's pretty even between men and women. Bro, because guys don't have the opportunities that women have. Women have endless opportunities. Well, I mean, it appears as though that's not the case right here. That is true. For the most part. I'll fuck anything. Anything? Most girls have to, yeah, after like six shots. Every shot is lower and lower. If it's a 10... okay take a shot nine another shot of eight i keep going down what if you take nine shots you wait i'm just a one huh i'm just a one as a girl you're a one spencer go grab some shots man go grab nine shots as a girl you're a one but as a guy you're pretty up there you're good thanks man

1:41:33Robby:i think you're pretty cute too all right this is a finance podcast should i know that's fine i feel like i should so that's that's this is i mean this is really fascinating i'm not gonna lie what is uh like what is your usual do you have a pickup line or do you just approach them and

1:41:46Moises:talk to them it's always situational there's no pickup lines or cringe you just go up to them and start talking about something that's going on or like a situation right songs playing you're talking about it you you know you you just have to follow what's going on around you and be present and then that's how you talk to them i mean also i'm not like some guru god demon guy i play full of warcraft like i don't know anything i just i just troll i have confidence when i go out so I just troll a lot. You're a great talker.

1:42:11Mizkif:That's the thing. It's like you have so much practice talking on stream where you could talk straight for 20 minutes and come up with content like on the fly.

1:42:19Robby:I'm curious, when you go out with these girls, let's say that you hit it off, you know, you take her back to your place, whatever. How often do they then hit you up later? Like, hey, do you want to hang out tonight? Or is it most of the time just like, that's it? No, it's usually every time. And then what do you say?

1:42:33Moises:I can't with another girl. No, I'm kidding. I usually, my problem that I have is like a lot of times Because I will, that's when you should like almost separate, but like I'll message them and then like it'll be kind of become a thing. And then they're like, oh, like let's take it to the next step. And I'm always like, no, I want to just be alone. So you just don't want a girlfriend? No, absolutely not. Eventually? Eh, whatever. Do you think you're going to be single forever? Hopefully. I don't know. Why do you want to be single forever? Because there's too many opportunities for women that I feel like monogamy is so difficult nowadays.

1:43:07Robby:What if you had like a polyamorous relationship?

1:43:09Moises:Where I could fuck other girls?

1:43:11Robby:Sure.

1:43:12Moises:Then hell yeah. Find me a girl that's willing to do that that literally does not care. That's like, yeah, you can go fuck other girls. I don't want her to fuck other guys though.

1:43:19Robby:She's got to stay put. So do you think that there's any like excitement though in having like a long-term exclusive relationship where you get to know her super well and she gets to know you?

1:43:28Moises:Oh yeah. Dude, it sounds like such a beautiful blessing to find someone, to romanticize it, to get married to then have children. But what about when those kids are like eight years old and their and your wife got fat and you look uglier and your eye bags are six feet deep and you are sleeping on separate couches now and you're running around the house constantly trying to clean up. That's not fun. It's oddly specific.

1:43:52Mizkif:It doesn't have to be that way, though. It could. Right. You can afford a nanny.

1:43:56Robby:It could, but it could not as well. Let's say 10 years out from now, you know, let's say even, you know, 20 years out from now when you're getting older, you know, maybe your knees are kind of a little decrepit at that point what are you going to do if you want to you know settle down when you your options have diminished because you're why would my options diminish because you're older and accept it look

1:44:16Moises:at leonardo dicaprio dude 24 year olds on the reg on this so you're comparing yourself to leonardo dicaprio anthony keyed is too people compare me to leonardo dicaprio all the time they say you look like a 50 year old version of leonardo dicaprio they say you look like a 50 year old version yeah

1:44:29Robby:not the young one i look like the 50 year old version they say at a certain point money doesn't really improve your life as much. Yeah. At what point would you say that that hit for you? Two million dollars. In net worth or in income?

1:44:41Moises:In net worth. I think if you have two million dollars and you invest it properly, I don't think that's going to change your lifestyle. So two million dollars, why will it not improve your life after that moment? Well, I mean, at that point, you can have a nice car, a nice house. You can have a good amount of money saved for, you know, in a high yield savings account or something where you can either a live off of it uh at a you know normal life basically right um and you can kind of chill out you can probably go on a couple vacations you can spend your money wisely but not too crazy and you can live a pretty decent life i think after that it starts becoming like what does it really matter um like i believe that like being super rich is not what i ever care to do i don't care to have 10 cars i don't care to have three yachts and seven houses around the world.

1:45:29Moises:That sounds like a lot of work. I just would, you know, I would be fine with a few million and to enjoy myself. The reason why I want$15 million myself is not necessarily just for me though. It's for my family. You know, it's for my future kids. It's for, you know, team water. If it ever comes around again, I'll donate some money again. So yeah, it's stuff like that. That's why I want the money. Not necessarily just for me.

1:45:54Robby:I don't need$15 million. So when all is said and done, what do you want out of the next 20 or so years out of your life? Like, why are you doing what you're doing? What are your main things you're going to be focusing on?

1:46:05Moises:I literally just care to make people laugh. Like, my job on Twitch and my life since I was a kid is to make people smile. Like, I love making people laugh. That's worth more to me than any amount of money. And that sounds so stupid. But, you know, your algorithms are probably going to think that that was an ad read, but it's not. Like I genuinely love making people laugh. So that's it. I just want to make people laugh, smile, entertain. That's all I care about. I don't really, like the money's great, but if I'm not entertaining, I won't do it. I don't care. What would you say is your biggest insecurity?

1:46:41I don't know.

1:46:43Moises:Probably if I'm not being entertaining. I literally do it all day, every day. My personality is this. I'm just trying to entertain.

1:46:53Robby:Is there a rumor about you that a lot of people think is true, but it's completely false? Yeah. Do you really want to talk about that? Go ahead. Say a few. List them.

1:47:02Moises:Three years ago, I got accused of covering up that basically my whole career up for a long time. That was then figured out by a judge and literally everybody within like three days that it was false. But it went so viral that everyone thinks I did it. And there's still people that think I did it. And there's still people think that they talk about it and it ruined my life. I've been traumatized. I've been suicidal from it. I've been depressed. My brain up. I feel like my brain is cracked from it forever. And it ruined my image, my reputation. My friends started to stop hanging out with me. People started ditching me.

1:47:37Moises:Streamer friends of mine backstabbed me and made videos or comments about it when they didn't know the truth. Yeah, that's probably the biggest thing. And in fact, it is the biggest thing. So a judge settled it? She tried to sue me and she lost. And she's like, didn't get anything. Because she tried to sue me for millions of dollars claiming I defamed her. It was so stupid. That happened. And I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars fighting the case, of course, because I have to get lawyers. So, yeah, that was the worst thing in my life. I still hear about it to this day. I'm sure there'll be someone in their comments saying, didn't this guy cover up sexual assault?

1:48:12Moises:Sucks. Sucks. It was bad. I'm still traumatized for a minute. I go to therapy. I do EMDR. my brain is not the same it never will be how it is how is your brain different afterwards uh i have i feel like my brain cracked when it happened i almost feel like there's a before me and after that me uh the before me was much more innocent and believed in people now i'm very jaded and i don't trust anyone and that's a very sad life to live when you're trying to be funny and entertaining because it's almost like you don't want to entertain because you're just like i don't like these people or they're going to betray me one day.

1:48:49Moises:Right. When you're dumb, wild and free and you believe everyone's your friend, you love to entertain because you're just like, everyone's my friend. I want to make them laugh. But when you feel like a lot of those people are just not really there for you and hate you, it changes you forever. So it changed me forever in bad ways. I don't think there's a single good that came out of it.

1:49:08Robby:Do you think that eventually you'll be able to overcome it?

1:49:12Moises:I mean, mentally, no, I think you'll stick with me forever. At least, especially as I'm a streamer consistently, because I deal with the consequences of it every day.

1:49:23Robby:What do the consequences look like?

1:49:24Moises:I mean, I just see comments about it. Viewers have left me over the years from it. I'm depressed a lot more. I'm more sad. Viewers see that and they're like, Miz is just not happy anymore. I'm definitely better now. Like, I'm not this, like, sad f***er that I used to be. But it's definitely something that haunts me every time I go live.

1:49:43Robby:The thing that I am so discouraged by are all of those, the people that make the YouTube videos exposing certain things without the actual facts and details. Yeah. Because they basically, people don't realize that the people that make YouTube videos saying this new scam, this new this, this new that, they make more money if they get more views and they can get more views by making something seem more evil. That's it. like it's it's there's no other equation than just that equation right there and so they are incentivized to make things look absolutely awful to paint someone as a villain because they get paid more and not only that but people idolize these people because they see them as their god who's exposing good versus evil they see them as like the moral arbiter of truth and ethics right when in actuality they're just someone who's interested in promoting themselves making a lot of money and getting a lot of views.

1:50:37Robby:They could care less about the truth because realistically, when the truth does come out, they're never going to make a video saying, you know what? I was wrong. And I caused millions of dollars of damage in this person's reputation and messed up their life. They could care less because they have, they have millions of people every single day commenting. Thank you so much for talking about this. This is so great. And they have millions of dollars coming in the bank account. It is so twisted. I'm so over it. I hate to say kind of resent anyone that makes YouTube videos like that.

1:51:03Moises:Well, it's also, the truth is never as exciting as the perception, right?

1:51:08Robby:Everything is more nuanced.

1:51:10Moises:Everything is more nuanced. Like, it's so interesting to think that, like, I did it and that, like, you're finding and exposing me and ruining my life. It's not interesting when I come out and say, here's a court that proves I didn't do it because they're just like, oh, what does a judge mean? Okay, here's, like, the entire Reddit community saying I didn't do it. People are going to come up, they're going to twist it

1:51:28Mizkif:and say, well, that's because you spent hundreds of thousands of lawyers. go away. I know in a lawsuit, they could claim whatever they want. They could allege whatever they want. And then you have to fight those claims. And of course, a judge could look at the facts and say, okay, well, fine. We side with you and we're going to dismiss the case. But no one ever covers the dismissal.

1:51:50Moises:Yeah, they didn't. I mean, when it got dismissed, people were just like, oh, well, you paid the judge. What? You think I can pay a court? Or they don't care at that point. It's like, now we're five months after and they're like dude miss we don't care and that's the sad truth is like well they don't care and why would they this they don't care about me that much so a lot of people's perception of me is very wrong and it sucks because before that i was like a you know i act like an kind of guy but it was like heartwarming but after that you're like no this guy's just an so from there my perception on the internet has been like this guy's just a bad dude when it's like, I'm really not.

1:52:26Moises:I'm a normal dude. I do care about people. I pay my taxes, kind of. And, you know, I invest in NVIDIA.

1:52:36Mizkif:But I just literally just try to make jokes, be an idiot. The comments, I think, are the worst because sometimes it'll start from a rumor. Like, I've had comments about me where someone just makes shit up. But they are commenting the exact same comment because I see these. They comment the exact same comment on multiple people's videos. and they all like them to the top and they make this wild claim. And then people underneath them are like, holy, I had no idea about this. I had no, wow, this guy's a piece of I had, but everyone latches onto that top comment as though it's fact because it has likes.

1:53:09Mizkif:Yeah. Even though the whole thing is fake.

1:53:10Robby:It's so twisted. There was this one thing that happened on just a clip that we posted, or maybe it was, no, it was the episode that we posted with Andrew Callahan. Someone said, these people seem so self-absorbed. These people don't know what it's like to work a real hard job in their life. And then, you know, one comment was like, oh, of course that's because Jack's dad was actually a part of the PayPal mafia with Elon Musk. And so he has a trust fund with like$20 million in it. And Jack's just going to get that or he's already gotten it. So he has all of this family money. He doesn't know what actual hard work is.

1:53:39Robby:And then that had hundreds of likes. And then there was like people like, oh, really? I've been watching this podcast for years. I had no idea. Jack never mentioned that to me. And that has like 30 likes. And then the one beneath it is like, oh yeah. And on top of that, like this and this and this and this. And like, they're saying that with zero evidence. And the only evidence that they have is someone else also has the name Jack Selby. And he was a part of the PayPal mafia and he has a lot of money. I have never met this guy. I find me a picture with me and him. There's no, I don't know who the guy, we just have the same name.

1:54:07Robby:That's like a thing. People have the same name. Juan Gonzalez. There's probably a million of them.

1:54:10Moises:Well, the problem too, is it's the short form media is such a curse because you just make up. I mean, half the time you're on Twitter or Instagram, you like really look at it and And you're like, this is either AI or fake story. It's not even real. They just make up stories nowadays. So they do that for streamers all the time. I'll see streamers having controversies. Kai said that. They'll say. It's like, dude, it's not even real. I was watching the stream. But that's where media has gone. It's like, I'm going to just take the source that I see because people just believe it. And that's what happened a lot with me is the Twitch community found out real quick I didn't do.

1:54:43Moises:It took like a week. A lot of people were like, yeah, I watched every stream. I was a part of this all. Miz didn't do it. It's so obvious. but the clips that went viral the videos that went viral that's where everyone was like i will never give miskip a chance because this is what he is yeah i've tried to rationalize this that

1:55:02Mizkif:it's just a part of being front-facing cost of doing business it really is and i've spoken with other people privately about this and they view it as just like the cost benefit analysis of like if I'm doing this this is what I get but the benefits on the back end it was bad

1:55:19Moises:there was 300 ,000 live people watching me get cancelled it was bad like when I say there was like the whole website was about ruining my life it's the biggest drama that's ever happened on Twitch really? yes by far

1:55:30Mizkif:see it's interesting because you're in it and you're so familiar and as with me I heard about it yeah okay well I didn't

1:55:38Moises:you know it was big and it sucked because it's like

1:55:42Robby:what can I do?

1:55:43Moises:go live and say

1:55:44Robby:I didn't do it. But I tend to not believe the things that I see online.

1:55:48Moises:Well, but the problem with my thing was a lot of people that I was friends with backstabbed me and made videos or talked about it and promoted it. And you go back to streaming and you're, I was known as like the bridge of Twitch, the guy that knew everyone was friends with everyone. And I'm like, I don't want to be the bridge. I hate all of you. Or I don't want to be friends with you. Or this is weird now. Or just like, you clearly try to ruin my life. I mean, uh, I tried offing myself because of it. So it's like, well, when that happens, you have a shelf that you're a wall that was up. And it really changed my content because it went from Miz can talk to anybody and his friends with anyone, which was true, to Miz doesn't talk to most streamers and he really does not want to.

1:56:30Moises:And it definitely made me lose viewers, made me lose confidence, made me lose followers, made me lose everything from years. i mean this happened three years ago almost to the day and it's still around it's bad don't be wrong most of the internet doesn't even care about it anymore because they're like dude trump's president who cares or like they don't give a uh most people probably don't even know about it anymore because the cycle of the internet happens yeah or they were like what did he do again but no that hurt me real bad my mainly what it hurt is my personal i hurt my mental and that just you yeah because any drama or a real issue nowadays like dude you did something horrible okay if you don't care and you just keep going like there's so much news nowadays that happens it doesn't matter anymore cancel culture is kind of dead but back then it was different because when my guy i got canceled um i got kicked out of my org for nine months for for nine weeks uh i lost all my sponsors so they were reporting on that they're like miss lost uh game fuel miss lost at &t fuels the fire yeah and they love it where they're like holy we're doing something we're ruining mrs life this is awesome when like um i it just kept snowballing to the point where like yeah it it destroyed me i went live and i basically had half the followers half the subs and had to rebuild and um that's why i like the car content because it's me getting into a new audience that doesn't even know who the i am which is nice and it's not like it's like i'm trying to hide from my past but it's just a very unfortunate thing that's hard to explain sucks yeah that does suck

1:58:05Robby:that you're still kind of paying for it especially when i don't get sponsors a lot of times because

1:58:10Moises:of that it went all around the industry everyone's like yeah he did that or like triple a sponsors or places like at &t and i was like in this big at &t annihilator cup every year paid 100 to 150k every time it was good content nope they still don't want to work with me because they're like you you have a bad rep. It's like, yep.

1:58:32Robby:So what we're going to do last is a streamer tier list that we've procured. I'm going to grab my laptop on the table and you're going to let us know your honest thoughts about these streamers. Walk us through who you're, who you're grading and what you're grading them as.

1:58:45Moises:Okay. I mean, I am a prolific Twitch streamer viewer. Like I watch streamers all day. It's all I do. So like I can actually tell you probably more than almost any other streamer who I think is actually a good streamer and who's not. Cool. I would say Hassan Piker is the worst streamer of all time. No, I'm kidding. I think Hassan is actually, I would put him in the C category. I think Hassan is a great with politics. He's excellent. He's on time. He's every single day. This is removing politics, obviously. He's always working. He's always doing more. He's progressing. He's very passionate. But one thing Hassan sucks at is when he has guests on his stream, he just cannot talk to them a lot of times.

1:59:25Moises:He's very awkward. and then something also Hassan's not good at IRL streaming he sucks he's boring he doesn't try he just looks at his phone half the time so I put Hassan in C I think Hassan is a really good

1:59:38Robby:political streamer though so where would you put him in terms of uh attractive level Hassan yeah he was hotter like three years ago what true I would probably put Hassan at like

1:59:49Moises:Hassan Hassan is a very objectively attractive guy that's like someone went outside and did huh

1:59:55Robby:after he said he was on it three years ago. What? Every time you say that, just sirens. What do you think went wrong? Why do you think he went down in attractiveness?

2:00:04Moises:Because he got more stress, and you can just see his gray hair is popping up every two seconds now. Like, he's just definitely a stress ball. I can just look at the guy or look at live stream fills. All right, Vitality. I would put Vitality as a F-tier streamer. No, I'll put him at D. The reason why he's D is the problem with him as a streamer is he's very entertaining, but he's not long-lasting, right? So why, as a streamer, you want to make sure that you can last longer than a few months or even a year? And the thing is with Vitaly is his brand can't last that long because he's just put such ridiculous content out there that if he goes to anything else, people aren't going to watch, right?

2:00:43Moises:So Vitaly is doing like pranks or figuring stuff out or trying to find pedophiles, whatever it may be. You can't go and play RuneScape, or you might be able to, but you can't play most games that's not how it works so longevity wise i put vitality as a d and obviously as nowadays he's an f but me myself i would put myself in high a i do think i'm definitely one of the better streamers on twitch i think i'm one of the most entertaining streamers on twitch my big problem that i have a lot of times is i would get uh i get bored very easily and i don't like content and also i think i've been limited over the years because of that drama why that happened to me and i also think i uh yeah i just get stressed and then i get pissed and i'm not in a good mood johnny smally is an f like like this is not even an option i'll just take jack dotry and put him lower than that somehow i think jack dotry is just the worst person ever when it comes to streaming he sucks at it like i johnny smally sucks too and he's terrible but jack jack dotry doesn't even look at his stream he just streams himself and i'm like Bulgeboy can do that.

2:01:52Moises:No one else. Ludwig, I would put Ludwig in A. I think Ludwig is a good streamer. Put Ludwig in B. I think Ludwig is a good streamer, but I think he's a better YouTuber, right? There's a difference. I think as a streamer, I would say that he's not as strong, but I think as a YouTuber, Ludwig is probably the strongest. Like if you gave me who's the best streamer YouTuber, probably Ludwig. I think he's definitely figured that game out really well. Speed is, in my opinion, one of the greatest streamers of all time. I think Speed is really good in any situation. He's charismatic. He's energetic. He's doing stuff that no one did, which is traveling and using that traveling to grow his brand.

2:02:34Moises:Genius idea from him from taking soccer and utilizing that to grow a completely new audience. And now that he's a spectacle whenever he goes around the world, he's athletic, he's talented, he's young. I think Speed is one of the greatest streamers, if not the greatest streamer of all time. I don't even know who this guy is. I've just seen him in Twitch clips and YouTube clips, and that tells you I don't care. Who is it? The dude with the sailor hat. Joshua Block.

2:02:58Robby:Oh, that's World of T-shirts. Oh, the dude that bites people? I think he bit one person.

2:03:03Moises:That's pretty entertaining. I'll put him in D. I think that's pretty good.

2:03:08Mizkif:Poke name. Why not C? Huh? Why not C for Josh? He's the only one that's bit someone, as far as I'm aware.

2:03:15Moises:Yeah. It's pretty original. It's pretty good, but I just think that like he's a one, like you just watch him and you're like, oh wow, he's autistic and bites people. It's like having like a Pidgey and all it can do is use like one tackle, right? Like you need it to have new abilities and Josh literally just has bites.

2:03:33Robby:So what else do you think, if you're talking to Josh right now, what do you think he, what do you recommend he does to increase his arsenal?

2:03:38Moises:I would probably, if I were Josh, I would get a mouth clamp. I don't know. I would be like, dude, stop biting everybody. But then he's a zero trick pony. There you go. He sucks. You know what I'm going to say? Josh is a streamer. He just bites people and runs around and acts autistic. He acts autistic? He is definitely autistic. I don't think it's an act. No, Josh is not an act. Josh is a biter. Okay, Pokimane I'd put probably as a low C. I don't think Pokimane is that good of a streamer. Do you hear that? Sounds like breakfast is ready. because Quaker's coming in hot with morning nutrition, 100 % whole grain oats, and a good source of fiber to fuel the rhythm of your morning and kickstart your day.

2:04:26Moises:And that sounds absolutely delicious. Fuel to start whatever's next. Quaker, official sponsor of FIFA World Cup 26. I, oh, let's go!

2:04:44Robby:I don't really watch, honestly, streams. Like, I don't watch Twitch, so I don't really know.

2:04:49Moises:Yeah, I mean...

2:04:50Robby:Seems like she's good at business.

2:04:51Moises:Sure, but she's just... As a streamer, she's whatever. I mean, I think she's just jaded and tired from eight years of getting beat the shit out of on streaming. I think she just, yeah, like, is very reserved in a lot of ways nowadays compared to what she used to be like. And even then, she just was like... she's much more of like a personality outside of twitch she's a star you know she's pokimane she's a instagram twitter tiktok i feel like that's much more her speed when i think streaming is much more just a relaxed time for her and chill so i just put her at c myself again definitely have a big ego i put myself yet again above everyone else at this point um I can't I there I'm a double A streamer Lacey Lacey Lacey I think Lacey's really good I think Lacey's a really good streamer I think he's very funny I think he's good with his chat I think he's entertaining in general he knows how to farm cliffs and use his community he's got good ideas I like his cameraman a lot I think Lacey goes above me I think Lacey's a really good streamer right now.

2:06:02Moises:He's very witty. Neon as a streamer, I'd probably put him in C. I don't know his content at all. I can't really judge him. No idea. Agent, Agent's a good streamer. I think Agent has really good ideas and a good team. I'd put Agent A. I think Agent's actually a really good streamer. Tim the Tapman is one of the goats of streaming. He's always been one of the goats of streaming. He's a high A in my opinion. He is up there. Tim is really good at entertaining and he's got a great community and he's just always doing good. I liked him. Aiden Ross. Okay. I think Aiden Ross, in my opinion, was an insanely good streamer.

2:06:43Moises:And I think nowadays he's very mentally and his brain is fried. And I think he's jaded and tired. So I would put Aiden as a for sure. But I think Aiden at one point was S. and I think his mental sped him up so he's not there. Kai Sinat I would put Kai in A no I'd put him in S. Kai is definitely one of the best streamers his production team's insane I mean they go balls to the wall with everything he clearly produces content he knows how to engage with his guests he's a really good streamer and his team just carries him so hard as well as him being a really good entertainer. Jason the ween. Jason's a really good streamer.

2:07:30Moises:His community is really strong. I think Jason has a lot of potential to grow in audiences that are new, which I think is more interesting on Twitch, which is more K-pop and Asian style streaming, rather than just like the normal mundane stuff. I would probably put Jason high A. I'd probably put him like right here. Who's this?

2:07:53Mizkif:Togi. Who's that? You don't know Togi? No. Really? Skip Togi. Who's Togi? Put him S tier. Who dat? He does these like crazy fun gambling streams, but he's like... To be your favorite. Oh, and steroids and gambling are his thing. Say no more. He's top S.

2:08:12Moises:He is. Ninja. Okay. Ninja. Ninja. He still has got the low taper fade meme. Like, I still think Ninja does well. I think he's a great streamer because he's very loud and energetic. I would put Ninja probably in the B. I think Ninja is actually a good streamer. For sure. XQC. X is A. I think he's probably right next to me. I think XQC was insane. But he's definitely more tired now. And that's just how it goes from doing this for nine years. But he's still, in my opinion, one of the greatest streamers. He knows what he's doing. This is just basically robotic to him. Because he's just done it for so long.

2:08:55Moises:He knows what to do to farm. But I would put him, he was at one point, I put him in A now because I think his content, he just is more like chill compared to when he was going very hard in streaming. I think he's definitely taking a step back for sure. And Foosley, Foosley is honestly straight up when he's on, he's. His streams were great. When he was on and good content, it was because you just never know what the fuck he was going to say and you need to watch.

2:09:22Robby:I think he's one of the best entertainers, honestly, of our generation.

2:09:25Mizkif:It was so funny. I never watch any live streams. Ever. I watched some of Fousey's. Yeah. Because of how crazy it was. And he was like in a hotel like calling the police for something and I was just like sitting there glued to the screen. I couldn't believe it. Yeah.

2:09:41Moises:He's genuinely a great entertainer. Like I think he's nuts but as an entertainer the beauty of him is the reason why he's so good is you need to watch what's gonna happen next because you truly don't know what's gonna happen. With a lot of streaming nowadays you know what's going to happen because it's planned it's i'm going to play peak with friends like okay i don't really need to watch this nothing's going to happen no interesting thing to the point where i need to be here for four hours yeah who's gonna be in jail in 20 minutes you don't know right yeah but that's such an exciting thing is that just mental instability though i think it's both mental instability and he's just a good entertainer i mean he's been in this for 15 years he just knows what to do to entertain.

2:10:20Moises:So I would say he's 100 % there.

2:10:26Moises:That's good content. I would say that's my list. Love it. It's good. Thank you. Where would you put Stable Ronaldo? Ron? I think Ron as a streamer is an S. I think he's an S right now. I think Ron's in his prime. I think he's funny, good. He's entertaining. He's very witty. He knows what to say. I'd put Ron in S tier if you put Ron there. I thought that was Ron, the steroid guy, but...

2:10:50Robby:They kind of look similar. Yeah. I bet Ron and S2, for sure. Cool. Mizkif, thank you so much for coming on the iced coffee hour. Really means a lot. I mean, you gave us a lot of your time, so... Yeah, is this normally how long these things go? This is a little on the longer end. Yeah, we're usually about two hours. We're at three hours and some change. Yeah. Yeah. So thank you guys very much for watching. If you made it to the end, really appreciate it. Seriously, we would not be here if not for you. Yeah. Thank you to White Glove Estates also.

2:11:17Mizkif:They really hook it up for this. You have no idea how nice it is to have like a place that we could film in Los Angeles. They have more. This is all of them. Yeah.

2:11:27Robby:This is all of them. We'll link them down below so you guys can click on their link in the description. If you're interested, if you're interested.

2:11:32Mizkif:Home remodeling, staging, things like this, they do it. Word. All right.

2:11:37Robby:Thank you guys so much for watching. Till next time. Till next time. Bye.

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