Watch Expert Brutally Exposes Rolex ‘Waitlist’ Scam, Dirty Secrets, & Celebrity Fakes | Nico Leonard

11:52Nico Leonard:Well, it's got nothing to do with aesthetics, right? That's just taste. but it's about the, the, just cutting corners, man. Just a generic movement that sits in Hamilton to sell it for 20 X. Why would you buy it? Like, that's not luxury. Like I, I am genuinely, what a watch says about you is, well, I don't really, I'm not in the position where I really care about what people think of me anymore. I've got enough stuff all over me and I've given enough people to be honest. well, that was the beginning of my career. And I'm different now. I have nothing to prove anymore. I'm just like done, right?

12:31Nico Leonard:After so many years being, doing that. So I don't care. I can wear whatever. I can wear my own watch. I can wear a Rolex. I can wear a million dollar watch. I can wear a tech hoyer. I don't care. It's a watch that I want to wear at that moment in time. But a Hublot is just a statement of, I don't really care. I'm just lazy. I just watched Mbappé play promoting this. So I might just have 20 grand to spend. I'll just spend it on that. That shows that someone doesn't really care. And what about Jacob and Co.? Well, that you're very, that you're too much on Instagram. That's what it shows. You're too much on social and very much influential, or very easy to influence via socials.

13:07Nico Leonard:Are they worth the price? Not even remotely close. What do you think they're worth?

13:11Jack Graham:Because I've seen the one where you click it and it has like the roulette thing.

13:15Nico Leonard:I'll get that produced for less than two and a half K. Simple. Like that's how easy it is. Like less than two and a half K. You pay a wee bit for the gold. like don't get me wrong like Jacob Jacob is a good designer to be honest but like he's not a watchmaker watches are not made by Jacob & Co it's a company that's called Concepto in Switzerland that makes that and they do that for different brands but like I mean it's not worth anything remotely near what do they sell it for? like to give you an idea it's 80 % off mate like 50 % like I will challenge you anyone that watches this that is in a social space knows they bought the Jacob & Co because they got 50 % off from Jacob to make them feel special.

13:56Nico Leonard:But he does that with everyone. So how special are you? It's just a journey, man.

14:02Jack Graham:You said that the entire watch industry would collapse if you said the truth. What is the truth?

14:07Nico Leonard:Yeah, if the watch industry was actually honest, which they aren't, this industry would collapse. What do they lie about? Well, I mean, look at IWC. I mean, just to be very clear, it's a complete identity crisis. I would say that it's all about selling watches it's all about, listen I'm not mad about economy of scale you need to sell watches, it's a business all good but stores to sell a watch like IWC this year came out with some astronaut watch IWC is known for making formal watches Portuguese, absolutely class Portofino, amazing but all of a sudden they want to make the most complicated Torliance.

14:49Nico Leonard:That's not you. That's not them. Like IWC is absolutely lost. Identity crisis. Worse than MJ or Michael Jackson at his prime, to be honest. But the watch industry tries to create a narrative for you to buy a watch, right? And that's a problem. As well as that, the journey of buying a Rolex, I mean, that's quite controversial, to be honest. What do you think about it?

15:16Jack Graham:well what do you think i hate it so what really upset me was that i walked in to a rolex boutique and i was wearing a 19 0 18 oyster quartz and i thought for sure some sales associate would at least mention it it's such a unique watch and i go in there and the lady's just on her phone She could not give a shit that I was there. And I just said, hey, do you have a land dweller? I just want to be able to look at it. I'm not going and asking for a Daytona. I'm not asking for an allocation. I just want to look at it. No, we don't have it. And then she was on her phone the entire time. Never asked any questions.

15:59Jack Graham:She couldn't care. And I left. And that turned me off so much. All she had to do is say, oh, where are you from? Oh, you're a local. Oh, that's nice. Oh, that's an oyster. I was so fed up with it that I left.

16:12Nico Leonard:But yeah, I do think that's more an American thing because like the Rolex is one problem, right? They have only really one boutique themselves and that's in Geneva. They actually care. They're incredibly passionate people. What you're talking to is someone that actually don't care. It's a normal job for them. If they're a sales associate at a Rolex or a sales associate at some tire place or used tire place, I don't know what you have here in the US. That's more an American US type of thing. They just don't care. they don't know what you're wearing they have no idea and i noticed that in vegas to be honest i think the the worst of the worst i've seen in vegas i wanted to this is five six years ago and wanted to buy a specific daytona and i mean the woman was on her phone i have photos of that i have photos of that i'm like and i lost the plot that day like you're an embarrassment for a brand you're representing the brand and that's a wee bit of a problem with rolex because they don't control what an authorized dealer does or doesn't do.

17:08Nico Leonard:And they just don't care.

17:10Jack Graham:Yeah, I didn't like it either. I went into a different boutique and it was display only. And then they said, oh, but we have these pre-owned watches instead. Yeah, certified pre-owned. Pre-owned watches. And then I pull up on Chrono 24. I probably shouldn't have done this. And I said, well, here's the same watch, but this is 20 % cheaper with box and papers. And I could buy, why would I pay 20 %? Oh, well, because you get it now and it comes with the Rolex. I don't care for 20 % elastic on 24, get a top trusted seller. I hate it. It ruined the entire experience for me.

17:42Nico Leonard:At this point, this thing which you mentioned, right? I think you're looking at it a different way, right? You think that the watches are the luxury aspect, but it's actually the journey? Let me explain. Rolex is not scarce. It's not rare at all. like Rolex makes in I would say three weeks what Patek makes in one year like Rolex is not scarce but yet they make you believe that they are the rarest thing in the world right so it's funny the whole thing is they make you feel it's actually a privilege for you to buy a Rolex to make you feel it's a privilege so privilege in that part becomes a luxury

18:27Jack Graham:right

18:28Nico Leonard:Right? So you need to be grateful that you're considered being able to buy a Rolex. So you're waiting there. You're sitting there. Privilege is a luxury in this part, right? Okay, you get the phone call. Finally, you can pick it up. Champagne. Oh, I've been considered. That's amazing, that journey. Endorphins going. You get a phone call. You can pick up your watch. More celebrations. More good Instagram photos. Ha, look, I got my new Roley. Buy my course. Whatever. Right. Then you have the watch, then you own the watch, then you wear the watch. It's like, oh, what's next? I want another one. Like that journey is the product.

19:09Nico Leonard:That cycle is the product, not the watch, not the product. That journey is the luxury.

19:14Jack Graham:So is the waitlist real? No, absolutely not. How do you move up on the waitlist that's not real? This episode is in partnership with Airbnb. So Graham and I just wrapped up a trip. We were in Austin for a few days. We filmed episodes with Togi, Chris Camillo, and Caleb Hammer. And honestly, every time we're on the road, we're staying at homes on Airbnb. It's just become the default. And here's the thing most people don't think about. When you're the one traveling, your place back home is just sitting there empty. And that's a real missed opportunity. Whether you're gone for a long weekend or a few weeks, you can list your space on Airbnb and let it work for you while you're away.

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20:38Nico Leonard:Well, let me put it this way. If you have a buddy at Rolex, we're the Rolex authorized dealer because we need to separate them. Rolex only has one shop. That's in Geneva. Rolex recently well in recent years acquired Bukhara incredible I must say the team very passionate young people that actually care that actually care about the brand and the product right like that's that's only in Geneva but that's where what I've seen you just need to suck it up if you want a Rolex you need to suck it up and if that is not what you want to do which I think you shouldn't be doing just buy a watch whenever you have the money and buy it on the gray market and i would argue to say that the gray market is the true

21:21Jack Graham:is the truth of the industry like retail is just a bloody lie but in terms of getting the allocation that you want is there any trick is there any way to do that because i've seen these people on the forums that they're like i go in every single week and when they give you an allocation you have to take it and then you have to keep visiting them and i text my ad all the time and i become friends i've even heard of them inviting their ad out for dinners like bringing them on to like, you know, family experiences and all this to get close with them. And then they get, you know, the allocation, they keep buying it.

21:53Jack Graham:Is that the way to do it? Do you see what you say there yourself?

21:57Nico Leonard:That whole journey is the luxury aspect. It's all been, it's all a lot. Like Rolex is key in that. Like Rolex is the king in that. That whole journey of being, going out for dinner, doing this, taking this person out, going in again, buying another one. That's the luxury aspect. Humans want what they cannot have. So they do whatever it takes. That's the privilege. That's the luxury aspect of it. What you're describing here, that journey is the true form of the luxury aspect of Rolex. And that's what they try to sell. So no, you cannot avoid that unless your body owns the retail boutique, which or you say you just make a deal i'll buy this watch you just be straight up i was in i was quite straight up i'll buy this watch for 400 000 swiss franc i'll buy it out but i want this watch and this watch within nine two months can you make that happen yes they have the daytonas in the back

22:59Jack Graham:they do so i've been told sometimes they only get like a few daytonas that's a lot of bollocks that's

23:07Nico Leonard:It's the journey. And they want to keep you on that journey. And this is why I say, like, if I tell you the real truth of how this industry goes, like IWC has tried exactly this. They understood that the cycle of you purchasing a watch, the cycle of the journey was actually the one that sold the watches. Not the watches, not the product itself. It was the journey. Right? So IWC introduces the engineer and they do exactly the same as Rolex. But it's IWC. it's embarrassed and they tried it yeah vacheron constantine overseas nobody blinked an eye to it right all of a sudden this iwc of this this this overseas oh best thing in the world allocation only all of a sudden people started oh i can't get it so i want it the 222 launch embarrassing very poorly executed they have the watches the production is easy but it's the journey that they tried to sell to make you, well, make you part of that.

24:06Jack Graham:Did you see the YouTube video where this guy goes in a Rolex boutique? I think this is in London and asks for a Hulk. And they say, sorry, we don't have one. You can get on the wait list. He's like, I'm okay. He gets a fake Johnny Depp, gets him in full costume as a celebrity, calls Rolex ahead of him. Hey, we got a celebrity coming in. Gets fake paparazzi. Johnny Depp walks in. they walk him straight to the back and he gets that exact watch yeah that's why i told you like

24:35Nico Leonard:they have the watches but the journey is for you as a normal bloke right the journey is that's the luxury that's the actual product that's why you want the watch because you can't get it so then which watch when worn tells you immediately that that person has class if you wear a vintage watch that tells me several things about you you care about your family or it's a family heirloom right and it's funny i i was with i'm here for the wwe my first wrestling experience uh i'm quite close with joe roman reigns one of his agents or people business people that are around him was wearing a oyster perpetual funny enough and i noticed that i was like it could either mean two things right you just bought your first rolex and didn't want to spend a certain amount but i you look very flat or you look quite well dressed and stuff so i don't think that's the case or it is something you inherited he's like yeah it was my dad's and i'm like i'll blow your mind now right have you ever polished this watch or cleaned this watch it's like no well give me your watch and i opened the clasp and i moved the bracelet from the clasp was like see that it's dead skin that's your dad's and he was like what i'm like it tells me a lot about a person right it was he was mind blown right like if you check your Rolex right open up your clasp you'll see you'll find the dead skinny oh gosh do you know who's watch this is I have no idea who is it take a look on the back take a look on the back oh my god yeah was it so bad did you have to sell it or did you give it to you

26:07Jack Graham:he gave it to me that's cool

26:08Nico Leonard:like

26:08Jack Graham:that's cool I always really liked him he gave it to Jack on the podcast yeah so you're saying there's a bit of liver king skin on this watch yes smell it

26:17Nico Leonard:well you see this that's all dead skin black stuff look at it wow oh my gosh that's funny isn't it like

26:26Jack Graham:does this does this appear to be real to you because a lot of people it feels right say a lot of what liverking does is fake is the watch that he gave me

26:34Nico Leonard:no that feels right to be honest

26:36Jack Graham:yeah it feels right solid

26:38Nico Leonard:like the sound of a bracelet you can't replicate that like gold you can't really fake well I'll tell you a funny story back in the day Cartier was so bad at making watches it's actually scary that People were just like, they were popular, but they were just so bad. Their movements were the worst of the worst. So what people did, they made fake carchets from real gold. And I just put a better movement in that. I just sold it. Like, genuinely, that was a fake watch. You see a lot of Nautiluses today. Like, a lot. I'm talking a lot. I'll probably, that's probably, if I have a WhatsApp chat, I can show you.

27:16Nico Leonard:offer today like a proper nautilus for like 20 grand like you think it's proper nautilus but the case embraces all aftermarket it's funny like and it's all real gold like i mean that's not that's different but the sound that a link makes this is rolex speaking of celebrity watches like this what celebrity has the best watch collection i love that question i love that well i would rate the watch collection sorry i would rate a watch collection a wee bit different than anyone else Like I said, I like to look at watches that money can't buy. You can have a gazillion dollars on your bank, spend$50 million on watches, but it can all be AP.

27:56Nico Leonard:And I can buy every single one of them if I want to on the market. All I need is money. I don't need effort. I just need money. That's it. Of course, I can talk. Kevin Hart, I can talk about. Mark Wahlberg. Amazing collections. But do they actually think about watches or do they just buy whatever they want? Mark is always the first one with the newest Rolex. Yeah. And Kevin is always the first one with the new IP. Is that really, like, is that someone that really makes an effort? Like, thinks about it? Like, that's what I love. True passion.

28:29Jack Graham:Intention. Yeah.

28:31Nico Leonard:What about John Mayer? John is an incredible watch collector. I speak with him regularly about certain pieces. He has stuff that the world has never seen. Some really, really insane stuff. like double signed, but not by Tiffany. I can't tell you what it is, but we're talking, I can't, but like double signed means a retailer that once upon a time sold a Rolex with their name on it. And it's absolutely gigantic. It is very, John is, is, is very red into this. John, this is John's life. I am absolutely gutted that he done that collaboration with AP because that didn't help his status he didn't have to do that I understand he's passionate he loves watches and Francois Benoit which I think is the best leader for the last two decades in the watch industry I understand it AP comes you want to do a watch together bring it to the world that really like the John Mayer the connection with watches was so authentic.

29:42Nico Leonard:Like we called the green Daytona, the John Mayer. It was authentic. It wasn't a marketing ploy. It wasn't designed by some marketing agency to sell that Daytona. No, he made a video with Ben Clymer about that watch or about his collection. He named that watch and that watch was sold out ever since. Authentic. No marketing ploy. AP, watch with AP. marketing ploy bomb it it i i i think if he looks back to that i'm pretty sure that that he would have loved to do that differently looking back what do you think he should have done differently to stay away from that just be an advice don't attach your name to anything let it let it run let it authentically run i think that that's the key because like i mean we're living in a world where everything is fake we we need a wee bit of authenticity in our life speaking of authenticity

30:39Jack Graham:what is the best watch to get the attention of ladies i love it i don't think there's any watch

30:44Nico Leonard:or an iced out watch i it's very funny i was wearing um i was in texas frisco i love frisco i'm i want to buy a house in frisco in texas i think it's brilliant and i was wearing a my white gold day date pave dal full diamond set bezel and the ladies did notice that oh that's what is that? That's funny. So that notice, but I have never been able to pull a woman with a watch, to be honest.

31:12Jack Graham:What about just in general? Yeah, I feel like a Cartier, like a good men's tank would do well. It's not too flashy, but you know what? It shows class. It shows some sophistication.

31:24Nico Leonard:Not a single woman will know what you wear if you wear a Cartier. It is a bloke that will know. So all you're attracting is blokes. But you don't think

31:32Jack Graham:they see Cartier and they're like, oh, I like Cartier. No, they see a watch.

31:35Nico Leonard:Oh, it's cool. All right, move on. Women absolutely do not care about watches.

31:40Jack Graham:So you're saying that you've transacted, I mean, in the nine figures, over$100 million worth of watches. You have never had a girl come up to you aside from that one experience to compliment your watch. No, it's always a bloke.

31:51Nico Leonard:It's always been a bloke. And today, twice with my watch, twice. The driver that dropped us off, oh, cool watch. And at the hotel. So that's really interesting.

32:00Jack Graham:So women typically are not interested whatsoever in watches.

32:03Nico Leonard:Maybe it's me that I kind of, well, that women are not very much attracted to me. That could be a one as well. But I have never been able to, back in the day, neither with cars, to be honest.

32:16Jack Graham:So if some dude is dating, you would not recommend buy this watch?

32:20Nico Leonard:No, absolutely not. No, no, no.

32:22Jack Graham:Would you recommend a car?

32:24Nico Leonard:No, I would recommend not to wear an Apple watch. That's a toy. Come on. Like, I mean, it's good. It's whatever. Don't wear an Apple watch. like rare nothing or wear something whatever you feel like so how would a man attract a woman in general i mean be confident like you don't like to be fair like if i put a watch on a specific watch i wear a specific novelist or an rm or something really like specific silent luxury or extreme in your face it gives me a confidence boost like i'm not gonna lie you would say i must dress in nice you want to dress nice nice shoes you want to feel nice you wear a nice suit right just that gives you confidence.

33:00Nico Leonard:Same with a watch.

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34:46Jack Graham:Enjoy. And now let's get back to the podcast. Here's a list of celebrities. Tell us what you think of their watches.

34:51Nico Leonard:Minute repeater. Unbelievable. Split second chronograph. Perpetual calendar. Holy fuck. Skeletonized. How much is that watch worth? People have no idea. A split second chronograph is one of the most complicated movements ever. This is not a watch you buy. This is not like you need to know what you're doing here, right? This is absolutely nuts. This is one of the most complicated watches that AP has ever produced. It's insane. But he's not wearing that watch on that photo because he's wearing a aftermarket 15407.

35:19Jack Graham:Good catch.

35:21Nico Leonard:There you go.

35:22Jack Graham:Kevin Hart.

35:22Nico Leonard:Kevin Hart. Platinum Daytona. Unbelievable, important watch, by the way. Advanced Research Aquanaut. Interesting story about that. Advanced Research is a specific department. It's a special department specialized in innovations within Patek Philippe. And in this case, it's about the usage of silicone in the movement. Well, give you an idea. Metal to metal in a movement, scrapes, right? Silicone to silicone, doesn't scrape what happens to a watch when it constantly scrapes it needs to be serviced quite regularly when silicone is used it doesn't really scrape so it doesn't really need to have be serviced every time so it increases the service intervals like years so that's amazing fantastic really important watch and of course the troublion which is class royal listen this is one of those right i could buy every single one of these pieces tomorrow if i want to so here's another

36:16Jack Graham:one that i guess money just can buy in terms of a collection but what do you think is this a

36:21Nico Leonard:rounded collection do you think so i'm seeing the white gold uh 15407 bc which is is white gold frosted i see the 5990 uh rose very special watch so i see nautilus i see ap i see the same designer Gerald Genta designed both. He's responsible for both. I see the Royal Oak offshore. Again, a Daytona, really important. Yellow gold sub-manor, class, Day-Date. I have that exact one here. Different dial configuration. Meteorite, the Gibeon Meteorite Day-Date. Gibeon is a stone, a meteorite, that landed in Namibia in Africa. And Rolex has harvested throughout the years. The last 10 years, you can't touch that stone anymore.

37:02Nico Leonard:But they've harvested that 20 years ago. and they use that now in dial configurations. And a really cool yellow gold Daytona. I believe that there is, like the Nautilus was a hype piece. Like these are all hype watches. Yeah. Like Nautilus, Royal Oak. Day Day wasn't a hype watch, but Daytona was for sure, yeah. I think it's a really rounded collection, but again, how much thought, but maybe he doesn't care about it too much. He just likes, he just wants to buy, and that's fine too. He just wants to buy what he likes. Change it up a little bit. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know the bloke on the left.

37:34Nico Leonard:That must have been gifted. Like, Hublot doesn't sell any watches like this now. That's 100 % gifted. They just give him the watch to wear. Oh, yeah, 100%.

37:43Jack Graham:He gets photos of it. It gets publicity. It's their marketing expense.

37:49Nico Leonard:Yeah. And then DJ Khalid, well, he's a wee bit bigger here, so this must have been a couple of years ago. Knowing him, it's probably aftermarket. And, yeah, that's quite sad. But he now has a really serious collection full of pieces that money can buy. I would love, this is what I do. This is my work. And people have no idea. I actually manage about a billion dollars of watches, collections. That's what I do. That's my work, right? People ask me, what is your work? I manage watch collections. And I always look at watches that money can't buy. So that's what I find. That's why I travel all over the world.

38:30Nico Leonard:So yesterday, we were supposed to film this. I had to jump on a jet to get somewhere to pick up a watch that money cannot buy. Secured off our client. For a client. Yeah. Wow. These celebrities, you love watches to a certain degree. I'm just excessively obsessed. That's what it is. So I look at small details. I look at things like that. These guys have other careers. they they they're busy with other stuff and well dj khalid plays golf i love golf so like they don't want to go into that journey but you see people maturing throughout the years i've seen dj khalid maturing massively of course i have absolutely ripped every celebrity apart including dj khalid and they must hate me for the rest of their life have you ever been wrong when you've called someone out when i call someone out my reputation is everything i'm not wrong i don't call someone out because it's a coincidence i call someone out because i know exactly every night you manage

39:34Jack Graham:one billion dollars worth of watches explain to me the business behind that well it's quite of a new thing in the watch industry to be honest um like that watches are seen as a luxury asset

39:45Nico Leonard:class like it's normal in the art art sector like if people manage an art collection's worth gazillions, like car collections even. Our watches and cars are actually really close to each other. Funny bit is, I manage everything from acquisition to consolidation or to consolidate collections to proper selling of pieces. I'll give you an idea. If you have 250 watches, you are in a certain value bracket. You're worth something. You spent a lot of money on 250 watches. You don't want to worry about servicing every single watch, and every single watch is a different service interval. Same as every single car needs to be, well, needs to be in a trickle charger.

40:30Nico Leonard:That needs to be managed. Usually when you have a collection of that magnitude, you also have different houses. You live across the world. Where are your watches? You want to keep track of that. So a real important part to understand is that you need someone to properly manage that, depending what a collector's goal is, of course, right? Every collector has a different goal. One collector just wants to collect every single watch ever created from this brand. And you have another collector that wants to see a growth of his investments. And he says, I'm spending 25 to 50 million. 25 is, well, that would be the absolute bare minimum, to be honest, but he wants to spend 25 million on a watch collection.

41:18Nico Leonard:It's not that I buy 25 million worth of watches. No, no, no. Like, I help him. We find them. We work together. We tailor that to what he actually wants to achieve. And it's all different. And it's funny. I'm going to say something crazy. One of the biggest watch collectors in the world is a woman. And yeah, it's insane. I can't tell you who it is. What is she worth?

41:43Jack Graham:I can't tell you. So when you're working with these clients and they're wearing these watches, I imagine some of your clients have watches that are four or five million dollars. Yeah. Have you ever had a client lose a watch?

41:53Nico Leonard:Yeah. Yeah. And my task is then as well to find out.

41:57Jack Graham:How expensive was the watch they lost?

41:59Nico Leonard:Two and a half million. How did they lose two and a half million dollars? Well, you see it as two and a half million dollars, but when you have just a wrist watch or watch on your wrist, it's just a watch. And the funny bit is like, it can happen very quickly. In Vegas, you hear it all the time. You get drugged, brought to a room and they walk away with the watch. Like, you hear that all the time. Yesterday, I heard that from someone.

42:23Jack Graham:Wait, what happened?

42:24Nico Leonard:So someone goes in a casino, goes drinking, is alone, a bloke, whatever, and just, I mean, meets a girl. A girl is very interested and brings him up to the room. And he gets drugged. And his watches are gone. One of which, well, he didn't, I don't think it was a watch, but his wallet was stolen. Like, I mean, it's what happens. And then how do you trace it down? A Rolex is difficult to chase down. But specific watches, well, I can show you a photo of a George Daniels, right? I know that George Daniels only produced, he only, George Daniels is the most important watchmaker in the world, hands down.

43:02Nico Leonard:Without George Daniels, the watch world would have looked completely different. He only touched, he only produced like 37 watches in his entire life. And he's known as the, he's the man responsible for the coaxial escapement, the Omega bot. and he only touched 37 watches himself, right? 24 of which were wristwatches. So it's easy to find. It's easy to find. Because someone that steals that is going to have to sell it. And that person giggles and sees, oh, that's a lot of money. Yeah, that's a lot of money. So they want to sell that. That will always come on the market. And something that is so niche, so rare, yeah, that's easy to find.

43:43Jack Graham:Did you end up finding it?

43:45Nico Leonard:that watch wasn't a George Daniels by the way that got stolen but yes I did

43:49Jack Graham:so your client lost a two and a half million dollar watch and you went out and found it

43:52Nico Leonard:yeah I did how did you find it we don't have possession of that watch yet because it's still in police custody now

43:57Jack Graham:who loses money in that deal if you find the watch like does the owner just automatically just get it back no or like what if it gets sold and someone's like buys it for a hundred grand and then they own the watch they genuinely didn't know it was stolen and then someone says oh that's my watch do they just have to get it back and then the person who spent the money is just

44:14Nico Leonard:out the money i'm not i'm not a legal expert so i i don't know how that goes in this case the court case is oh this guy is going to go to jail and the court case and whenever that's finished i think the asset is going to be released but at least the asset now the watch now is in possession of the police safely so until that is the court case is going and that could be a year two years maybe i don't know but as soon as that is released that watch is going to go

44:39Jack Graham:back to its original so do you just take a percent or so of the billion dollars worth of

44:43Nico Leonard:watches that you manage well no it's not doesn't work like that in acquisition or consolidation i take 15 on both sides sell and sell and purchase right but it's like um it sounds like this the funny bit is we talk about this as if it's like something mad but you know what a funny bit is this is this good this has been going on for decades in the world of art i don't think it sounds insane yeah it's been going on for decades in the automotive space like for watches it's maybe a wee bit relatively new, but like if you have, say you have 200 watches, 300 watches, right? Like you need to think about how you store those.

45:24Nico Leonard:Like those watches need to be serviced and every watch is a different service interval. That needs to be managed. That's also, you want to know what the value is today. You also want to know and make sure that that value maintains. If that is your goal with collecting and that is really important. So that is one of the goals. That's what we set out. I mean, it's relatively new in a public space for watches, but it's been going on for a good few years. I would be personally probably one of the biggest ones that manages that.

45:54Jack Graham:So if I'm just doing back of the napkin math, you said it's 15 % of a billion dollars. No, it's not. So what am I getting wrong here?

45:59Nico Leonard:No, that's only acquisition. So that's only acquisition in and out. So meaning my margin is, well, 15 % of acquisition and 15 % of selling. So I take 15 % of both sides from the buyer and the seller. It's not 15 % of a billion dollar that I managed. The combined collection is 15 million. But it's very often, like I didn't sell those billion dollar watches. I didn't. The majority of, well, 90%, 95 % of those watches have already been acquired. But the deal is simple. Any watch that's been added or any watch that's being moved from that moment that we're saying is 15 % in and out.

46:38Jack Graham:so if they end up selling at some point in the future then you would retain 15 of the sale price

46:43Nico Leonard:i like to think that that is really that's incredible maths that's the absolutely unbelievable i've never have to work again but i don't think it worked like that how it works in that part is that the collection is going to be hand down depending what the goal is of that person but nobody's going to sell uh 10 million 20 million and i'm managing a collection for a couple of years that doesn't mean that that is the end of the road like if i manage a collection for five six years and the the guy's finished is done or wants to move on it i don't have right to 15 of his collection no i have right of 15 of every watch that has been bought and sold from the moment uh

47:21Jack Graham:he signed up so if someone's buying or selling a watch what's the best way to both get a deal and get the highest price on a watch is it auction is it chrono 24 is it private parties it is reaching

47:34Nico Leonard:out i would always say if you want a deal don't ever buy from an auction well very often i would also say if you want to have a legit right auctions are not always the right place to do you want to sell a watch sell something really special auction is the way to go right private buyers fantastic amazing but like certain watches don't need you don't need to look for a new owner you already i don't have to if i if if one of my clients wants to sell his piece unique or wants to sell is is one of the crown collection rolexis which nobody knows off or not many people know off a crown collection is something you know it also you know off catalog but above that there's also another collection if someone wants to sell that i don't have to look for a buyer there's 20 people that want to buy that because every day passing there's less and less in the world meaning that the demand will always be there for that because it's so extremely collectible and important so like it's it really depends case by case okay and how do you make sure you're not getting scammed

48:40Jack Graham:as both a seller or a buyer because i've been thinking about selling this watch because i never wear it but i don't want to be posting on instagram like hey guys so you make a youtube video you just like say i'm gonna sell it fair enough but how do i make sure i'm not gonna get scammed and how does

48:53Nico Leonard:a buyer know they're getting the real watch well i don't know about how people can avoid being scammed that's not really like i own a retail yeah uh business and we sell watches and we buy watches right and i think it's really important to buy the seller or buy the person uh instead of going to the best offer right give you an idea if you have a nautilus oh i can make 20 grand yay or 30 grand they sell the watch to this dealer the new owner registers himself as the new owner and bomb the guy will never buy another watch again because he's blacklisted because he sold his nautilus your case will be different but i mean i would argue to say just buy the seller buy the back like do business with people that you feel comfortable with and that's the key how do you get how can you avoid to get scammed do your research not about the watch but about

49:42Jack Graham:the people you do business with so funny doug de miro said the exact same thing in terms of selling cars she said you always have to buy the seller when the seller has good documentation the car is immaculate you speak with them that is a good sign all right like that's funny same thing

49:57Nico Leonard:everything can be you can find everything on yeah online like if you search me there's a lot of people that that hate me but there's a lot of people that that do like me oh that weighs up but like being so long on top of the tree is difficult without getting or trying people to try to either uh do you wrong or whatever it made i have been i've been i've lost fortunes i've been stolen from i've been oh you've no idea lost half a million uh i'm not gonna go In greater detail right now with that, but like I've been victim of that as well. And I am someone that is very thorough, right? But certain situations are unavoidable.

50:43Nico Leonard:Yeah. But just buy. If you just want to buy a watch or you just want to sell the watch, just do your research to the people. It's about the people you do business with.

50:52Jack Graham:Speaking of cars, a watch really says a lot about you. And I'm curious in terms of watch stereotypes that you've noticed. Yeah. And so we'll list a few of these and just give us your initial impression.

51:04Nico Leonard:Rolex. High school dropout. Why? Because it's just like, love it. It's like, I'm a high school dropout. I always wanted to have a Rolex. Fuck teachers. Hate them. I wanted a Rolex.

51:15Jack Graham:AP.

51:15Nico Leonard:AP. First money made, investment banking, first money made, definitely money made, already has a rolex or just skip the queue and just went ap because he loves watching youtube videos and people wearing ap uh loves hip-hop um for sure loves hip-hop for sure 100 um yeah that would be that would be ap patek either extremely classy well-dressed serious very serious Very thorough, very thoughtful. Hublot. Very easy to be influenced and absolutely do not care. Maybe even being a builder of a construction company. Richard Mill. Very insecure. Tudor. Someone that actually is not really that fussed about what people think of watches or someone that is on the beginning of his watch collecting journey.

52:18Nico Leonard:Grand Seiko. I love how he done that. I love that. I have never heard a Rolex owner stating that this is much better than Grand Seiko. But I hear every single time without exception, a Grand Seiko owner saying that this is better than Rolex. I would say a Grand Seco stereotype for someone that wears Grand Seco or loves Grok. Grand Seco is someone that is just against everything, just wants to be on the opposite spectrum of everything. Everything but mainstream. Casio. You don't care. You are just wearing a watch because it is bloody functional. Zenith. Love how you got there. Someone that is actually does this research, thinks about, it's very considerate, wants to buy a watch that, like he doesn't impulse buy a watch.

53:16Nico Leonard:That watch was never an impulse buy. Never. So a guy that is, is genuinely wants to know more and realize that Zenith actually was really important. JLC. That's a really difficult one. I like that. I do like that. Someone that loves heritage and wants to not wear, just doesn't want to spend the money for a Patek Philippe, doesn't see the value in that, but do want to wear something that is historically very important. I really like the person that wears J.J.

53:47Jack Graham:LeCoultre. Let's try this now. Just one word. The first word that comes to mind. People who finance watches are... Stupid. People who wear watches at the gym are... Stupid. People who are concerned about losing value are...

54:06Nico Leonard:I'm just, you just, you just raid it up. And again, the first word is like, don't buy a watch. Oh, and it's one word.

54:13Jack Graham:It's one word. One word. Ridiculous. Aftermarket diamonds and watches. Insecure. The Rolex waitlist is. Fake. The watch industry is. A scam. The most overrated watch brand. Hublot. The biggest waste of money in watches is. Jacob McGill. The biggest flex watch. Riccippi. A guy wearing a$100 ,000 watch but broke is? A gambler? A guy wearing a$100 watch but is rich is? My type of guy. The biggest lie watch people tell themselves? That you can pull incredible women with watches.

54:56Nico Leonard:The dumbest watch purchase you see? People going into, because people gambler, they give an idea, right? I know it's one word, but I can't. There's impossible. It's impossible to make it. People go on holiday and buy a watch tax-free at the airport or a cruise ship because they have no idea that that watch can be bought for even half of the price of tax-free is when they just click on the internet.

55:23Jack Graham:The cheapest place to buy watches, you'd say, is on the internet secondhand?

55:26Nico Leonard:Yeah, or the UK.

55:28Jack Graham:Now, when it comes to buying a watch, how wealthy do you think you should be to buy your first Rolex?

55:34Nico Leonard:Well, I'm not the greatest example for that because I'm an absolute degenerate and I've always spent every penny that I had into watches. So I'm not the greatest example, but I think you should be able to, I think for you, I think to consider it wise to buy a luxury product, I think you need to be able to afford it at least five times. Just to be on the safe side. Like, I mean, that would be, I am not that guy. I went all in. My first ever Ferrari. I put the deposit down to 25K and it was like 1 ,200 quid a month. And that was all the money I had.

56:11Jack Graham:It is what it is. How often do you see people buying watches that you know they just can't afford it? I never do. I never do.

56:17Nico Leonard:Because my business also never does.

56:20Jack Graham:We don't really do finance. But maybe they just scrape together all the money. Like they have 20 grand of their life and they're just like, let me go and buy this AP.

56:28Nico Leonard:I don't think I ever see that. I don't think the business has ever seen that. I don't think so. I don't know about people's, like funny bit is with Americans, right? Americans are significantly more open than, than people in the UK and Europe. Right. I actually love America, like American. I love America. That is what it is. Right. Like people are so much, so, so like completely open here. Like I don't see that. And next to that, personally, I don't really sell watches below a certain of mine, to be honest. So I don't really know. and those people are not really in that financial situation.

57:05Jack Graham:We're going to name a few price points and you're going to say the best watch at each price point. Love that. $1 ,000. DeSopyr X, Hans Dine. $10 ,000.

57:15Nico Leonard:116610LN, doesn't matter if it's with papers, Submariner, steel, previous gen, unbelievable.

57:20Jack Graham:$25 ,000.

57:22Nico Leonard:Why do I go back to Rolex again? That's really annoying. That's really annoying. We shouldn't be doing that, but$25 ,000. the 16618LN solid gold RLB 16618LB the blue dial solid gold Submariner

57:43Jack Graham:right

57:44Nico Leonard:but the older generation you buy that for$25 ,000 easy $50 ,000 AP chronograph 26331ST $100 ,000 a 3700 Patek Philippe Nautilus one million dollars vintage Daytona specific 64 one like something Paul Newman something really

58:08Jack Graham:special so I'm curious when it comes to collector watches like this because I'm really into the value aspect what watches do you think are good or safe to go up in value I don't think that any watch that you know about will go up in value well that would be worth your time 99 % of the watches

58:28Nico Leonard:are not an investment. Like, the fact that you would know or you would think that that watch is an investment means it passes so many more people.

58:38Jack Graham:Well, so, I would argue, I would think the floating dial Zenith Daytonas are undervalued.

58:44Nico Leonard:Oh, yeah, they're undervalued. But the Porcelain Daytonas are undervalued. That stuff, that's all undervalued. But, like, in today's market, like, you need to understand that people say, I'm buying this Rolex Daytona, this new ceramic, because it's an investment. Then I laugh. I'm like, what is an investment? 6 % a year? Like, I mean, is that really?

59:07Jack Graham:I'm not talking about new watches, but if you could, out of all the watches out there, Spectrum, from the 1900s through today, if there's watches out there that you think, hey, I think this is going to 10X over the next 20 years.

59:22Nico Leonard:Well, I, for a fact, there's Recep. Recep, Recep. Any watches that he touches is absolutely, you've probably never heard of that, have you? No. No, exactly. So that's why, right? And you may have heard this here first. People have talked about it, but that's because I'm an industry insider. He only produces a handful of watches a year. Luca Soprana, you've never heard of that. ADK, Swiss franc, that's where you buy his watches at. But I'm telling you, that's the future. Aurelia, young guy, worked at H. Moser. have you heard of h moses yes right that one i got young guy right just uh uh just just became a father of his second child like we're talking real people that make real watches like this is the big difference what you don't get right the luxury aspect of the watch industry is a is as far as you know is a brand but as far as i know it's the people behind it that make it you cannot like you

1:00:23Jack Graham:don't know any rolex but how do we know how do we know which ones are going to be the future fp

1:00:28Nico Leonard:jorn well it's not that hard but chepi is going to surpass fp jorn any day of the week simon brett is going to surpass fp jorn any day of the week like those are independent watch brands independent watchmaker sorry correction there's a difference between a watch brand and a watchmaker that's a gigantic difference right i thought this was the most funniest thing in the world you had the British watchmakers days, like that was like this big event. And I'm like, there was one watchmaker and the rest were watch brands. How the hell can you call that the British watchmaker days? I think that's the biggest fraud ever.

1:01:01Nico Leonard:Like a watch brand and a watchmaker is the difference. Roger Smith was the only watchmaker that was on the British watchmaking days. That was the only one. The rest were just watch brands with bracelets from China and movements from there. They just assemble a watch. That's not a watchmaker. If you think you're a watchmaker by just assembling watches, you're an embarrassment, to be frank. Well, you do not know if you buy a Gége Lecauld who made your watch. So it's a mass product, but Gége Lecauld is owned by Richemont. It's a conglomerate. Their business model is simple. Churn as many watches because that will give us profit.

1:01:40Nico Leonard:Aurelia, young guy, you actually make a direct impact on his life. He can only produce a handful of watches a year. like that's a watch that money can't buy because it's time you need same with luca same with what chippy makes A Richepi is the new FV. Sean and a buffed app. And people have no idea. How do you get one? Impossible. That's what some money can't buy. So. How do I get on the wait list? Well, you need to go to Switzerland a lot of times and be very nice to Richepi and. Have to take him out to dinners. Exactly. Family outings. You're one of the thousands of people. Right? Simon Redd, exactly the same.

1:02:21Jack Graham:He's not going to accept your lowball offer. So if I walk in, is he going to be on his phone?

1:02:24Nico Leonard:Like the.

1:02:26Jack Graham:Best I could do, can I get 50 % off? Jacob and go offer me 50 % off. Exactly, give me 50 % off.

1:02:32Nico Leonard:The thing is, right, the reason why these independent watchmakers are such a success, it's because the mainstream watch brands have been telling fake and bullies stores to sell their product.

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1:05:34Nico Leonard:The reason why these independent watchmakers are such a success, it's because the mainstream watch brands have been telling fake and bullseye stores to sell their product. IWC I would like mate what do you call the island boys of more authenticity than IWC ever had IWC is complete lost Michael Jackson at his prime had less of an identity crisis than IWC has today it's mad right same with several other brands Panerai has no idea what the hell is going on like those are not those are not people that care about watches the thing is like their marketing teams well if you have marketing director of one brand you're only going to be a marketing director of that brand for like two years then you swap to

1:06:17Jack Graham:another brand you say all this stuff do you worry about lawsuits and getting sued where you just said that about panerai and panerai is like well wait a second we do care about our what we do we're not just a marketing hub and then like slapping you with a lawsuit or like a cease and desist i think you damaged uh jacob and co let's just say because he's like that's patently false that we you know discount our watches 50 i don't know i'm just saying i hear what you're saying but

1:06:42Nico Leonard:I mean there's freedom of speech no I've not been sued because why the fuck would I I'm telling the truth prove me otherwise if I lie if I give you misinformation sue me show me but everything I tell you everything I say is the truth so if I make a statement and it's absolutely the truth Jacob Pico doesn't make a watch it's Concepto that makes that simple ass that's the truth so they have to now prove to me that that well or I need to prove that that that They do that. Well, that's very easy. Like, I'm not a, like, it's not that I am looking for enemies all day, every day. I just cut through the crap.

1:07:20Nico Leonard:I just want, this industry is my life, right? This is my life. This is not a money thing. I don't care about money, right? I care about support. I care about how my son will see me whenever he is old enough. I stand for something. and I think that the watch industry is lost in every way, shape or form. It's never been at a worse place than it is today. And it's sad, but it's not that people don't buy watches because they do, but it's the way the watch brands communicate. And this is why the independent watch space is so vitally important. And there's a watchmaker, a real guy, a genuine person that works his ass off in design, was his biggest ambition.

1:08:09Nico Leonard:and I'm able to spend 3 ,000 points by his watch, I not only make his day or his life or whatever, I mean, I'm actually making a direct impact. I'd rather see that than buying another Panerai and whatever.

1:08:28Jack Graham:Would you wear only Hublots for one year for a million dollars? Not for a million dollars, no. No, no chance. How much would you have to be paid to only wear Hublots?

1:08:38Nico Leonard:25 million at least 25 million dollars so hublo there to be honest mate hublo there there i like this whole thing was all fun and games and hublo and this and that right but from the bottom of my heart i am really embarrassed for people that that have bought hublo and i'm i'm just gonna give you the glasses yeah because it actually pisses me off right so you did jack right it actually royally pisses me off on another level right i hublo wanted to make a video, right? With me, right? And I'm like, fine. Well, let's do that. But I want you to make a donation to a charity, which is important to me, which is to make sure that children during Christmas have a Christmas present because a lot of people in Northern, a lot of kids in Northern Ireland didn't have that, right?

1:09:25Nico Leonard:Instead of paying all those influencers and all those ambassadors, I want you to do one thing. I'll do, I'll make a video with you. I'll let you talk and we'll have an open, honest and real conversation. And you can prove me wrong. I would love that. I want you to do this. Instead of you paying money to all those influencers, I want you to do one thing for me. One thing, a hundred thousand pounds sterling. And I matched that, right? A hundred thousand pounds sterling to a charity that is close to my heart. And they said, well, I don't care. I'd rather give$2 million to 50 cent for a launch of a watch to basically an influencer party.

1:10:06Nico Leonard:I'd rather spend$2 million to that than actually making an impact for the next generation. It's an embarrassment of the highest degree. I think that leadership at Hublot is beyond embarrassing. And LVMH needs to have a really good look at themselves because this is where Zenith went in. This is exactly the same group. Zenith is nearly bankrupt or they're going, they're for sale anyway, the brand. Like they have same as, I obviously see a big identity crisis, but we'll not go into detail. but i think it's really embarrassing and i'm dead serious like a hundred thousand points for a charity or two million dollars for 50 cents to perform for some influencers did they flat out say no they literally said flat out no the ceo in the comments on instagram said out no no a couple of weeks later big event with 50 cents for all their influencers honestly everyone that wears a hublo i would love to have them have that feeling like this is what you're doing like i was genuinely wanting to be an open and make an impact together right i was open i'll listen well listen to you i'll not be critical i'll be straight let's have an open conversation and make an impact for the next generation of watch people what is the best watch that hublo makes Never.

1:11:26Nico Leonard:None.

1:11:26Jack Graham:I am done. I will never say. You're trying to get to. There's not a single one that you think is like a half decent watch. I think, what is it? The Big Bang? Is it the Big Bang one?

1:11:36Nico Leonard:Well, there's one movement which I find funny, which Hublot also didn't make, was introduced in 2018. It was done together with Dustin Johnson. I think Marco created that. It's a mechanical golf counter, but the thing is super fragile, right? It's a mechanical golf counter. I love that idea of that concept. the guy that produces that actually left hublo and then started his own brand called crisscross uh studios which is doing cool stuff right like keep in mind these are just brands these are fronts there's actually real people that have ambition sometimes behind it and start their own watch round which is funny it's like yeah so it doesn't sound like you're very happy with

1:12:18Jack Graham:what's going on with the current state of the watch market in general seems like there's a lot hype a lot of just mass produced pieces and most people are completely disillusioned the watch that they're getting is actually rare when reality it's they make hundreds of thousands of them well it's

1:12:33Nico Leonard:not the state of the watch industry that i'm worried about it's the fact that like i mean maybe that's me getting older right maybe that's me you remember when when your dad or your parents once said back in the day the music was better like maybe it's one of those i don't know maybe it is but what i see today is just it worries me mate it genuinely does i care about this industry and i care about these people but on the other hand the mismanagement of these bigger brands has created a complete different market which i absolutely love it's the independent space we've seen that with mbnf mbnf like fucking max biser worked for uh jay jay lakold um he worked um like i mean they all go independent and create something and actually make an impact like and that that's amazing like the mismanagement creates a complete different economy on its own yeah but i want people to just they're really really like i would celebrate anyone that wants to learn more about watches right because mechanical timekeeping devices tracking something that we haven't defined yet.

1:13:40Nico Leonard:Brian Cox. Time is not a proven concept. We have all different calendars. They have a different calendar in China than we have here. So time is not a proven concept. We're tracking something that is not a proven concept. But mechanical engineering of a watch, it's just, it's insane. It's actually incredible. Like I urge every single person to dive deep and learn some, learn about that. and the historic importance of how important, like we wouldn't be able to fly today, like be on a boat, navigate. Like that's so important. And I love every bit of that. And then I hope people then, I hope that people then really do their research when they buy a watch.

1:14:23Nico Leonard:And ideally in an ideal world, stay away from mainstream. Just go and support watchmakers that actually really care instead of the marketing that's being served.

1:14:32Jack Graham:People have the goat debate in like the NBA. They say it's like Michael Jordan, LeBron James. They have it in soccer with like Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo. Who is or what is the GOAT watchmaker? They're both British, right?

1:14:48Nico Leonard:And they're both reside. Well, one is dead. George Daniels is the GOAT. He's the absolute GOAT. He wasn't even a watchmaker. He was a mechanic. Watchmaking was not to be improved. It was impossible to be improved. And he improved it. last person to ever improve the watch watch industry by the way watch mechanical the mechanical aspect of watch last person and his apprentice Roger Smith those two funny enough what I would say are the goat one is not with us anymore the other one is working exactly as George Daniels said it out to be and what is the goat watch brand well the most important one in the world which is one third of the entire Swiss watch industry Rolex that's behind the stone.

1:15:36Nico Leonard:And although the luxury aspect is not the product, it's the journey, making you feel like that's the actual product. You don't know, but the journey is the actual product. Being able to be considered, oh, it's a privilege to be considered. And then being able to buy one, oh, they allow me to buy one. That feeling, what you get from that, that's the actual product, not the actual watch. There's not a watch brand in the world that has ever been able to do that. Or not, I would say Hermes would be in a different space, but there's not a watch brand in the world that can do that.

1:16:11Jack Graham:How does Rolex operate as a non-profit?

1:16:13Nico Leonard:They do not operate as a non-profit. They are a profitable organization, but they're owned by the Hans Wilsdorf Foundation. So Rolex and Tudor are both profitable organizations, right? But they're owned by a foundation. It's clever. it's it's it's just how to avoid pain it's yeah it's tax it's great

1:16:36Jack Graham:we should be a non-profit we really should yeah because you're adding value exactly yeah

1:16:40Nico Leonard:be clever you can't blame that you can't like I mean don't hate the player the the largest bank wire in the world is once a year right I think it goes from it's Google I think it goes from like the Bermuda one of these islands or from Ireland or something like that like to the Bermuda. Like it's the biggest bank wire ever. It's just once a year. It's just tax. It's just like air licensing. It's amazing how you need to be creative. And Rolex is like very creative.

1:17:10Jack Graham:Because our average view demographic is between 18 and 35. Let's say for the average man under 40 years old, what would the perfect collection look like? How many watches? And what's the money? Let's just say, I mean, it's no money. Money aside, amount of watches aside, just what would you say they should consider when curating their collection?

1:17:29Nico Leonard:Rolex Submariner is a sports watch, for sure, hands down. Or even a Rolex GMT. I think a Rolex GMT is the most functional movement or functional watch out there. And I use that every day, right? For me, if I travel a Rolex GMT, I would say a Submariner is just more because it's iconic. But there are days in my life that I'm not under, not at like a thousand feet underwater. A Rolex GMT is properly functional because you can read multiple time zones. I think a chronograph is vital. Omega Speedmaster. It's an incredible story with that because that watch was like, it saved lives, that watch. Like, and it wasn't even meant to go to space, but it saved lives.

1:18:09Nico Leonard:The famous 14 seconds, Apollo 11. Or was it Apollo 12? Apollo 11. I think that's really important. I think dress, right? And if there's no budget and if I can do whatever the hell I want, 619, I think it's one of the most cleanest dials. The reason why I said 619 is exactly the same case, but it's exactly the same case.

1:18:28Jack Graham:To prescribe for an average viewer out there, because I would say our average viewer would probably not be, you know, multiple Rolexes or multiple... So, yeah, that's why it's like budget. So, just a practical, you know, maybe under$15 ,000.

1:18:45Nico Leonard:Under$15 ,000 for watches. I think a Speedmaster has to be in that collection. A GMT watch with, in this case, the Tudor Black Bay Pro would be an incredible watch, because it's very affordable. Well, affordable is a relative term, but it's very accessible. And you have a GMT function and it has the incredible heritage. Speedmaster, like I mentioned, because it's so important and it's really, really cool. And as a dress watch, I would say, this is actually modern, I'm going to say this, a pre-owned Chopin, because Chopin is one of the only big watch brands that makes everything themselves. Everything themselves.

1:19:23Nico Leonard:like every aspect of the watch is made by them and i love that and you can pick them up for like 60 of the retail price you can buy an unbelievable show bar like five grand six grand i love that i

1:19:36Jack Graham:love that that as a dress watch does it matter if you buy a watch with box and papers the modern

1:19:42Nico Leonard:stuff uh no i don't i don't care vintage stuff i don't care it's not the watch that matters Modern stuff, I can't wear a box or papers. But if its watch is bought with a single purpose as an investment, like vintage pieces, well, amazing. Make sure it does help. But papers do not certify or verify that a watch is legit, yes or no. Absolutely not. People say, oh, yeah, papers. Yeah, this watch is real because it has papers. Well, if you can replicate a watch, do you not think you can replicate a card maybe?

1:20:18Jack Graham:I want you to react to this clip. What would you say is your worst investment of all time? I hate this watch. What do you not like about it? Because it was a terrible investment. Can I see it? It represents... You should throw it to the house, dude. How much is that watch, Graham? It's got to be$400,$500. But I owned another one, a black one, that was a million dollar watch.

1:20:35Nico Leonard:And it was stolen from me. Do you have insurance? Off my arm. No, I didn't have insurance. Well, the black one that is showed in the photo or in the video, that has never been a million dollars. But that aside, I get it. I get it. Richard Mille has lost a lot of money. Like, it's losing a lot of value. I get it. And again, like I said, Richard Mille blew up in such a short amount of time that it was like, at some point, it's ignorant to think that this will always go that way. I get it. I get it. However, it is still a Richard Mille. Right? It's still a Richard Mille. And they have changed the industry a wee bit.

1:21:11Nico Leonard:That was the first and only real hyper watch, if you compare it with the automotive industry. like special.

1:21:18Jack Graham:Here's one more clip I want to show you. Walk in rocking this watch and it's massive. Alex is supposed to guess how much you bought that for. Oh, okay. Alex. My guess is that that watch costs approximately$17 ,500. Alex. I'm guessing 85. My guess is 35 because you got a deal and you could buy it at MSRP. I go to this place called Happy Jeweler and he does a lot of athletes and stuff like that out in California. And he just so happened to get this watch in stock. And I had texted him for months. I was like, if you ever see this exact watch, let me know. I love black and blue. And he says, I got it in stock.

1:21:53Jack Graham:And he's like, I'm actually going to give it to you below cost of what I have it at. He's like, just because I know you're going to make content. It's going to help out. And I want to build a relationship with you. You're going to refer me a bunch of clients, which I have. You know, now I'm talking about it on this podcast, right? So I ended up getting it from him for like$42 ,000. And I was looking at it on eBay the other day. I think it was like worth$60 ,000 to$70 ,000 now.

1:22:13Nico Leonard:Yeah. You saw the watch? If it was any other jeweler, any other jeweler other than Happy Jewelers, I would say it's bull. But Happy Jewelers, they're genuinely like that. They're unbelievable guys. Like if it was anyone else, I'd say, below cost, f*** off, never. Happy Jewelers, I think, are hands down in the US the best. Really? I think they're amazing. And the brothers, hard workers. I have never seen a shop like it. The vibe is incredible. and if you're ever in California, I would highly recommend you.

1:22:45Jack Graham:You know what's so funny? That clip got millions of views. And when you think they discounted his watch across all the people who said, that's free marketing for them. They probably, I'm curious what their ROI was on that clip.

1:22:58Nico Leonard:Yeah, well, there's maybe a clip coming out of that, but the brothers are genuinely, they're nicest people you'll ever meet. Like, if it was any other jeweler, any other watch dealer, I would say, yeah, good story, bro. Good luck. You're very - That's really good to know. That makes me feel good, man.

1:23:18Jack Graham:It gives me hope that there's, you know, people that Graham can get really cheap stuff. Yeah, exactly. Because he wants to be in the front row for a penny.

1:23:26Nico Leonard:You see what I mean?

1:23:27Jack Graham:That's you, by the way. Well, you were talking about how scammy the watch industry is. Yeah. And so going from Happy Jewelers, we got two thumbs up here. Oh, yeah. What are some of the tricks that you see throughout the watch industry that you want to call out?

1:23:39Nico Leonard:I would actually argue to say the gray market is the real market. That's the honest market. Like retail is a scam, right? It's a scam. Retail price is going up out of a zoo. It is insane. Oh yeah, cost of this and that. Mate,$200 ,000 for a Nautilus. Are you out of your mind? This is out of the box retail. Like, I mean, the new Nautilus, what they've introduced to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Nautilus. How much? I'm like, are you out of your mind? It's a normal white gold time only watch, not even a date,$100 ,000 retail. That's a scam. The real value of a product is actually defined on the gray market.

1:24:16Nico Leonard:And I would argue to say that that is also the most honest variation, honest version of that.

1:24:21Jack Graham:But now I watch these YouTube channels where the guy, he constantly talks about the tricks that people pull when they sell a watch. Like they might ship them a watch. He looks at it and says, this is an aftermarket dial. Or this watch was somehow swapped to be this watch. and it's advertisers. How often do you see that?

1:24:38Nico Leonard:I see that within our business, not very much because I'm luckily in the UK and the UK people actually take accountability. But in the US, it's a big scam, mate. Like if you buy a watch, if you want trouble and you want to be in the front row seat for a penny, you go to New York. You will get over and I promise you that I'll put money on it. I put money on it. And it's actually an embarrassment. I mean, I mean countless times I mean genuinely it happens more than it doesn't so it's it is actually sad but now comes the point right have you ever bought a stolen watch no but I bought a watch that then was later registered stolen like that's funny then the insurance trick that's hilarious what's the trick well you sell you buy a watch you sell the thing You call your insurance company.

1:25:31Nico Leonard:I lost my watch. Here's the serial number. I have the watch now. Done. He gets his money paid out. I paid him, so he got paid twice. And I'm sitting there. I want to sell this watch, and I was registered stolen. That's bad.

1:25:44Jack Graham:It seems like that's the easiest thing to get caught in because you have a...

1:25:48Nico Leonard:People don't think, mate. People are sometimes not using their own brains. It's hilarious. Do you not think that that will backfire? Yeah. Like, it's hilarious. And this is also what you see in New York. New York is quiet. So how often do you see fake watches? Not very often. You know what, right? When I started with YouTube and TikTok and stuff, right? It was all over the thing. All over, right? I remember the unicorn family. I don't know if you've ever seen, like, that was mad, mate. I don't know if they still exist, but every other clip about watches was people flexing fake watches. Like, I don't see that anymore on socials.

1:26:23Jack Graham:Are the fakes just getting better?

1:26:25Nico Leonard:No. It's people are just more cautious with, like, sharing fake stuff. Like what, what's probably a product of you. Like I would, I wouldn't, I would love to think I would love that, but like, maybe that's a wee bit, my egos, maybe a wee bit too big, but that could potentially be, well, I would have had an impact, but like fake watch busters and baller busters. Baller busters. Yeah. I see it less and less. And I'm like, actually, that's a good thing.

1:26:50Jack Graham:But do you think maybe people just get desensitized to it? Like there's so many people wear fake watches that at this point, it just stops like, eh.

1:26:56Nico Leonard:I don't see online people flexing fake watches. Not in, I do see sometimes, but not in the rate that I've ever seen. What's the worst you've ever called someone out

1:27:06Jack Graham:for wearing a fake watch? Rick Ross. Rick Ross, that was embarrassing. But he could afford the real one. So why would it matter if he's wearing a fake one? Well, can he? Right, doesn't he? I thought he has like a$20 million house in Florida.

1:27:19Nico Leonard:Yeah, but like you can finance that to the hill. You can't finance a watch of that magnitude. Like, to give you an idea, right? that watch is part of a set of 10 watches. That set was like 12 or$14 million. You couldn't get that watch individually. That's how I knew. You couldn't get that watch individually. Could it be aftermarket? Yeah, it was aftermarket. It was fully custom.

1:27:39Jack Graham:Okay.

1:27:39Nico Leonard:Right? It was fully custom. And let me explain to you. You have a watch, right? And it says on the dial, Audemars Piguet. Right? The bracelet is, however, not made by Audemars Piguet. The case is not made by Audemars Piguet. Okay. The Dow is not made by Audemars Piguet. Crown is not made by Audemars Piguet, but, oh, it has an AP movement. Is that watch real? Or is that watch fake?

1:28:08Jack Graham:I call it a Frankenstein. Why? Because the movement itself is AP. Combined with other pieces, I just call it a Frankenstein watch. I wouldn't say it's fake.

1:28:19Nico Leonard:A Frankenstein watch needs to balance a 50-50, not 90-10. Like, to give you an idea, right? And there's another example. If I buy a BMW 5 Series and I make it look like, with a body kit, like an M5, do I have a fake M5? Well, that's the question, right?

1:28:42Jack Graham:I would say, but here's the thing. I would say if it has an M5 engine. Yeah, but it doesn't.

1:28:48Nico Leonard:Now comes another point, right? A custom, there's a big difference between a watch that's custom and a watch that I would consider fake, right? that green watch that rick ross had was directly made to replicate this piece unique that was at that moment in time a piece unique but directly to replicate that watch a direct one-on-one well a watch that's custom that is just iced out it's not replicating nothing because that watch that day just never existed like that in the first place so that's not to replicate something like That green watch that Rick Ross had was a direct replica of the actual watch that AP made at that time one off.

1:29:31Nico Leonard:Do you think he knew it was fake? I think he, no, I don't think. Looking at the communication at that moment in time, 100%, but his ego was too big.

1:29:44Jack Graham:What do you think about people who wear fake watches?

1:29:47Nico Leonard:And do you think it's wrong to wear a fake watch? I think it's wrong in every way, shape, or form. I think if you're wearing a fake, listen, I've been on this journey when I was 16. I wore a fake watch because I couldn't afford it. I was so insecure and I wanted to feel, I wanted to be part of something. Like I wanted to be considered cool. Well, let me tell you, wearing a fake watch doesn't make you cool, right? Genuinely, it doesn't. I have been part of that. I get it. I understand it. But if you're a bloody adult, if you're 35 years old and you're wearing a fake watch,

1:30:16Jack Graham:like, I mean. but what if you genuinely like the watch but you're like it might not be worth the retail

1:30:21Nico Leonard:price i'm gonna buy a fake one oh why would you why would you why would you support criminal activities like like like like like copyright infringements why would you do that like a lot of people don't understand that the funds are very often used um well it goes hand in hand drug trade simple as let me be very clear cartels and drug trades in the environment that some of those watches are being produced it's shocking like i have been well i've been in china i've seen some stuff that i wish i never saw but it's quite it's quite poor like so what's your defense of fake watches yeah but like why why would you i buy a watch for myself yeah right i can't imagine wearing a fake watch it's fake and i'm like i'm a i'm fake i'm faking i'm fake Like, that's all I am.

1:31:13Jack Graham:That's all it says. I'm completely indifferent to it. I think it's one thing if you're trying to do to impress somebody, but I think if you genuinely like the watch and it's the same thing and you just save the money, I'm pretty indifferent to it.

1:31:31Nico Leonard:Well, everyone has his own opinion, mate. I absolutely respect your opinion, but like, I'm not going to lie, but like, would you driving a fake car? Would you wear fake clothes?

1:31:45Jack Graham:I wanted a

1:31:48Nico Leonard:replica Countach. I want a real Countach. And that is motivating me to work harder. It is a motivation.

1:31:53Jack Graham:I would feel so guilty driving the Countach, the real one, because I'd be worried about putting miles on it or someone dinging it. But if you have the replica Countach, I feel like I wouldn't care. I could freely enjoy it. I don't have to worry about like, oh, I'm putting miles on my car.

1:32:09Nico Leonard:I make money. working. I don't make money with collecting cars and doing that. I want to buy a car because I want to drive that bloody thing.

1:32:21Jack Graham:That's why I make money with other things. You've never heard of the dollar to fund ratio. I look at how much fun could I have for this dollar and if I could get 90 % of the fund for 50 % of the price then I do that because No, because I still get 90 % of the fund. Can you imagine

1:32:39Nico Leonard:sitting on a chair there, right? Sitting chilling, right? You don't have kids yet. But sitting there, you have kids or maybe whatever. Sitting there chilling and you have fucking a month to live. And like, I wish I drove that Countach more.

1:32:51Jack Graham:But you could say the same thing about anything. Let's say you got to dinner and you could have this incredible experience. It's awesome. But it's$1 ,000 a person. Or you could have 90 % of the same experience for$100. It's not going to be as crazy, but it's one-tenth the price. Yeah, but that's different.

1:33:07Nico Leonard:Like buying a Countach, working your ass off and being able to afford it. And then not driving it.

1:33:12Jack Graham:But you could still do all of those things, be able to afford it, but be like, well, the dollar to fund ratio suggests that I could do this thing instead. You still get the same enjoyment of being able to buy the car.

1:33:22Nico Leonard:That's more you think, because the money is a really important subject in your life. I don't care. I don't. I don't care. I've never had money. Didn't care. Now I have money. I still don't care. Money is not my motivation. I never, like, of course, I am thinking about, okay, I can't do that. I can't do this. I can't. But, like, money is there to do good. Meaning, if I can buy that watch from a business or a watchmaker and it will actually have an impact or a business, I can actually contribute. I'd rather fuck with that because that makes an impact and I can make a difference and I can make a change.

1:33:57Nico Leonard:I don't care about money. I don't. I never did. I never will. It's never been a motivation. and I hear what you're saying yeah this and 50 % yeah well I donate money to charities about dogs I fund in Northern Ireland the doghouse sanctuary for years I've donated that like did I fucking care no yeah if I didn't do that I had more and I could have bought another car yeah fantastic or just work more efficient make more money simple money needs to for me and this is the great thing we're opposites that's the great thing about watches with different tastes like if you can afford a Countach it's a Countach bad example because the fucking thing is shit to drive that's another thing but if it's like something else like a 355 like Ferrari that like I recently bought a 355 by the way great car unbelievable sorry for my language but now we're talking right so absolutely unbelievable car right and you can buy that for like$150 ,000 or you buy it like an improved variation of that evoluto right recently acquired an evoluto that's coming in a couple of months right or i don't know is it a year it's out the wee bit right it's like the perfect version of that car and it's like eight hundred thousand dollars right absolutely insane car but whenever i bought my first ferrari it was the absolute bollocks then i bought another supercar and another supercar and i'm super grateful that i can do that right because i never had money in my pocket i never realized i never thought it would be even a possibility but the fact they can do that super grateful but then you are surrounding yourself and you're in circles and then you realize i'm in dubai and there's another a12 and there's another a12 and there's ain't made i'm one of they're building 14 000 cars ferrari there's nothing unique about that same as having a rolex man any bloke i will see in a in two miles today like there will be people that have a Rolex.

1:35:59Nico Leonard:Like, I want to buy a car because I just want to drive it. I want to enjoy it. And for example, the Evoluto, insane car, right? There's only 55 of them, right? There's only 55 of them. Like, that's unique. I won't see another one. Do I not drive it because there's only 55 of them? I mean, maybe it loses value. I don't care. I buy that car because I want to drive it. Like, not because I want to keep it in a garage, sitting, doing nothing. It doesn't work like that.

1:36:30Jack Graham:So you say you're good at picking out fake watches.

1:36:33Nico Leonard:I like to think so, yeah.

1:36:34Jack Graham:Okay. We compiled, between everyone that works at the Ice Coffee Hour, watches.

1:36:39Nico Leonard:Right. Let's go.

1:36:40Jack Graham:They're all fake. Yeah. They're all real. Yeah. You don't know. Well, let's see. First, you're going to be doing the look test.

1:36:48Nico Leonard:Yeah.

1:36:49Jack Graham:So, you're going to be able to see these watches. and not feel them yet Panerai Luminor Marina real Rolex Datejust real Rolex Submariner real Aquanaut 5167 real real real real now would you like to open them yeah

1:37:15Nico Leonard:feels but the problem with Panerai is their genuine movements are as rubbish as their fake ones so you're quite close to that it's a difficult one this and Panerai is not really my gig but looking at the numbers number 139 of 600 that makes sense case back is titanium watches it all looks like it makes sense so that's real it all looks like it makes sense right I don't even feel it. You could do it. I don't have it. Like this is fine. That's real.

1:37:54Yeah,

1:37:55Jack Graham:it's real. Didn't know you had an Aquanaut, mate. No.

1:38:02Nico Leonard:Don't look at that. Absolute arsehole. No, it feels, it feels, it feels legit.

1:38:10Jack Graham:It feels legit.

1:38:16go to

1:38:17Nico Leonard:if this is Chinese I'm actually impressed what I don't like is the clasp that actually gives me a wee bit of warning sound that worries me a wee bit

1:38:31Jack Graham:but it's too right

1:38:42yeah that's right

1:38:43Jack Graham:that's good

1:38:47Jack Graham:yeah it's all that's legit three of them are real three of them are fake

1:38:52Nico Leonard:this one if there's a fake one it's that one if there's a fake one it's this one because it's impossible really to see that really what do you mean it's impossible to see that there's no tells this is this case is done perfect bracelet is done perfect I don't have a date on this watch

1:39:11Jack Graham:you could by the way take the watch out you can screw it you could do yeah we want to see if uh this one too like it's really difficult to see that due to the fact i can't open the watch and i don't have much tells but this must be fake that one could be it's hard to see but i need to open it up i need to know i just feel that this one is legit it just feels right but this is the most copied

1:39:43Nico Leonard:watching the planet. So it could be a trick one. That one is way too smooth. That's done perfectly. So this is legit. So if there's fake ones, it should be... No, you didn't open this one. Well, I have a date here and I'm pretty happy with that. And I like the dial. I like the dial.

1:40:06Nico Leonard:Screeze Ray. I'm pretty happy with that. That's not too... So if it was fake, it would have been...

1:40:15Nico Leonard:dose three that's 100 % legit it's a risky one this that one is the most copied watch I like that watch re-hold this let me see if it re-hold is right

1:40:31six

1:40:34Nico Leonard:I like to do it this way three on three

1:40:40correct

1:40:40Jack Graham:you're correct alright Thank you. I'm actually really impressed. Yeah. I thought the Patek would be the dead giveaway because of how it sounds. And it's a little thick. I didn't like the clasp, right? No, the clasp is awful. And you can see all the inner markings and you hear it, listen to the movement. No, no, no. If I grab you a real Aquanaut,

1:41:03Nico Leonard:you'll hear what I did say. It's exactly the same. No way. It's exactly the same. Could you grab, oh here, if you grab that box, you'll hear it's exactly the same. like i love the date is so good in this it's actually scary like that is a tell right this is just this is really this is impossible to really see this in the out this is done by a

1:41:25Jack Graham:factory called noob and wob this is uh vsf yes that's noob factory that's the same factory if

1:41:32Nico Leonard:you know what i mean so like there's no way of telling that from the outside really right that one, mate, like the Panerai movements were so so I would say

1:41:44Jack Graham:those three real, that's why. Graham, how much did you pay for this? $465. Should he have bought a real one? Was this worth it?

1:41:54Nico Leonard:No, because now people know you're wearing a fake watch.

1:41:56Jack Graham:I don't care. Oh, that's so much better than mine. Oh my gosh. This is so smooth. These are all real, by the way. They're all what? They're all real. They're all real. Oh my gosh, this Daytona is in, can I pull it? Yeah, that was fun.

1:42:15Nico Leonard:I bought that watch with every last penny I had. What did you pay for this? 180 ,000 euros. What do you think this is worth today? 450.

1:42:29Jack Graham:In total, what is the value of all of those watches? A million, maybe. Is this your personal collection?

1:42:36Nico Leonard:Yeah, I only travel with personal watches.

1:42:40Jack Graham:Does this not make you nervous to travel? Like, is this all insured? It's all insured, yeah. But nobody knows I travel. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Now, in terms of your collection, it's gorgeous. Do you have any watches that you regret selling?

1:42:55Nico Leonard:Yeah. What is that? My first luxury watch I had to sell, my Speedmaster. Still try to buy it back. several watches, several vintage Daytonas I sold. I had to sell watches to fund the business because the business was losing money, some of which I will never be able to buy back. I would argue to say the majority of watches I sold I regret, but I've been in a very fortunate situation that the last two years I didn't need to sell a watch anymore. And that means I can focus on proper collecting again.

1:43:32Jack Graham:There was one clip that I didn't show you, that I'm going to show you now.

1:43:37Nico Leonard:And that's for extra content as well? Only fans?

1:43:40Jack Graham:No, no, only fans, yeah. The second controversial theory that you've got is that you strongly believe that any Rolex that you buy, it's manufactured after 2010, is actually not made in Switzerland. You believe this is an Asian product. Yeah, and the major part of the component parts of the Watts are all made in the Orient. Do we have a Pepsi here? A modern Pepsi? Boom, right here. It's a 2025 Pepsi. What do you think? Is that a$1 ,500 watch or is that a$22 ,000 watch? It's a$1 ,500 watch. The reason it's a$1 ,500 watch is I can go to Hong Kong and buy this same thing, Superclone. You can't tell the difference.

1:44:18Jack Graham:That's why it's$1 ,500. It's$15 ,000 because Rolex wants$15 ,000. Let me tell you, after this next year and the truth comes out about production in China, Try to sell this for anything.

1:44:32Nico Leonard:Try to sell this for more than two grand. Yeah, that's just a viral clip to have a viral clip, right? What you see here is a load of bollocks, right? Yes, there's parts coming out of China. That doesn't really work for Rolex, for many other brands. It does. But to give you an idea, enabled for a watch to be called Swiss made, 50 % of the value, not 50 % of the components, but 50 % of the value of the movement needs to be coming from Switzerland. so that means that yeah they can have screws coming from china and yes there's nothing wrong with that because some of the chinese manufacturing is significantly better than what they can produce in fucking switzerland so they're making the best product and what he's saying is wrong that's not a $1 ,500 watch maybe it is it's a rolex and it's a legit rolex and you're not paying for the manufacturing.

1:45:22Nico Leonard:Like, buying a Rolex is not the product. It's, like I said, the cycle. Right? Being able to be considered, feel special. Oh, maybe I'm getting a watch. Then you get the call. Yes. Oh, I can buy a watch. Oh, I own a watch. I can wear it. That cycle is the product, not the actual watch.

1:45:40Jack Graham:I hate that game. That game is not for me. I hate it too. Yeah.

1:45:43Nico Leonard:I hate it too. But people want what they cannot have. That's what's called marketing. And that's a lie across, and it's wrong in every way possible, but like, I mean, it's with every luxury aspect. That's the true form of luxury. It's the fact you cannot have something and you want it and there you get it. That's luxury.

1:46:09Jack Graham:But he's stating is absolutely wrong. So one thing I'm curious about in the Mark Tilbury podcast, he said he Googled your net worth and said it came up as 4 million and you're like, oh no, that's really wrong. South, south of that. And we're all very surprised. I'm curious if you surpassed$4 million now.

1:46:28Nico Leonard:I'm probably the richest guy on the planet. I'm telling you. I have a beautiful family and I have a job I don't call a job. I think that that is the most important thing. And that makes me a very wealthy man. And I'm very grateful that I don't know what the price of a carton of milk is. And that is a really good place to be. I don't know what my net worth is. I know I own several companies. We employ a lot of people throughout all our companies. And we add a lot of value. And my net worth? I don't know. I can't. I have no idea. I don't care. And I want to keep it that way. Because the motivation is never money.

1:47:13Nico Leonard:the motivation is impact.

1:47:15Jack Graham:What's your advice for success?

1:47:19Nico Leonard:You can only excel in the things you truly love. So when you have your passion, you can be the best at it, but it is adding value first before you are able or allowed to make a penny. Make sure you add value first and then maybe if you work hard enough, you can take value out of it. my aim is or my advice is don't ever listen to anyone because people have said throughout the years and still they do that every day you will fail you'll not do this you'll not do that I listen to me and I'm my own best motivation and my kids are the reason so that I do everything now that was different back in the day when I wasn't a father.

1:48:15Nico Leonard:But the key is add value first before you're allowed to take any value. People say, I'm going to start my own business. I'm going to start, I'm going to become an influencer and gain a following. And I'm like, why would you gain a following? Do you add value to people that follow you? Do you give information that would actually impact their lives? Like, why would people follow you? Why do you think if you put a video out there that people would actually watch? Like time is our most valuable asset. Why would someone take time out of the day to watch your video? And I am so incredibly grateful that people watch my videos because time is our most valuable asset.

1:48:55Nico Leonard:And I spend that watching a video of me talking about my favorite subject. I'm a lucky man. That makes me a very wealthy man.

1:49:03Jack Graham:I've also noticed that you've been getting in shape. Thank you. You look really good. I appreciate that. What was some of the motivation behind that? Was it having a family that kind of sparked things in emotion?

1:49:15Nico Leonard:There was a big chance that I wouldn't have made it the other side if I didn't change things. My life, myself, my health. We figured out things and I needed to change my lifestyle if I wanted to see my kids grow up, which is the only motivation. and yeah that was a big it was a tough bill to swallow and it's a tough journey but it's a journey i thoroughly enjoy and it's good to feel feel fresh feel yeah yeah i i i had to do it otherwise i but it would have maybe ended up differently it's interesting our uh prior editor Alex uh just had a child and he's down I believe it's probably now 150 pounds

1:50:03Jack Graham:since finding out that his wife was pregnant like I respect that so much I

1:50:09Nico Leonard:know how tough this is I've been there on that I lost 60 well about 70 pounds and it's not been easy and I maintain it and I it's it's it will always be part of my life i um yeah but like my kids are all my reasons and i want to see my kids grown up and that's the only only thing i want to be an example to my son and i want to protect my daughter so i had to get my act together and i needed a wee bit of luck and we got out of that so i'm in a really good place and people have no idea but there was a period that i didn't film for months we prepared for some stuff and that I needed to go through.

1:50:47And we've, we basically filmed

1:50:51Nico Leonard:for a serious amount of time. And then I was off and I was just focused on health and the stuff I'm dealing with. So it's really cool. You're looking great, man. I appreciate that. It means a lot. It means a lot. Yeah. I agree.

1:51:04Jack Graham:Thank you. Here we have a tier list of different watch brands. I want you to list them all out. Let's go. Give your honest opinion.

1:51:13Nico Leonard:Let's go. So honest opinion, A-Long and Sona. S is the best, yeah? A-Long and Sona. I am not rating it. I think it is amazing. Well, no, A-Long and Sona. I rate it. Amazing watchmaking. Part of the Richemont group. It's really unauthentically put in the market. In effect, last year, with only 100 of a rose gold Odysseus. I think the watch brand, as a watch brand, as people that work there, I would rate them, but because of their mentality and the way they... on a boost up fake C. Audemars Piguet, C. Like, and I'm just being very clear, AP is gone. AP is cooked. It is collapsing left, right, and center.

1:51:56Nico Leonard:And that is after leaving of François Benoit, which was the, I would say, the best leader in the last 10 years. It really represented his network. The Travis Scott was one of the best watches AP has done. It went viral, became mainstream. The impact of AP is gigantic. But the last, I don't remember anything what AP has done the last fucking couple of years, mate. I don't. I don't. So, yeah, see. I am going to sell my gold AP. I don't want to, like, I just don't. Brettling, how am I rating them?

1:52:33Jack Graham:Your own criteria.

1:52:35Nico Leonard:My own criteria? Yeah. Brettling is getting there. It's working on their seat there. Seat there. It's getting there. It's going there. Karche makes an impact. unbelievable cult following do things right it is what it is A tier Casio A tier it says what it does on the tin done F.P. Joran I was wrong with F.P. Joran and I'm the first one to admit it I was wrong I was wrong how are you wrong? I thought it would drop because Francois is quite of a Francois Paul Joran is quite of a rocket pissed off a lot of collectors throughout the years by his behavior, etc. And I thought that it would negatively impact the watch brand.

1:53:18Nico Leonard:I was wrong. I'm the first one to admit it. And I think it's hands down one of the most insane watch brands out there. A tier. Grand Seco, great watches. Great watches. It's just the people that buy them. It's just absolutely embarrassing. But watch brand, great watches. B tier. I'm rating Grand Seco above A, B. Just to clarify, yeah? It's just, and I want you to, I really want, this is really important. There's not a Rolex owner that is ever worried about Grand Seco. But every Grand Seco owner is saying that Rolex is, that their watch is better than Rolex. It is just France. H. Moser. Cool watch.

1:54:04Nico Leonard:A streamliner is cool. I would say. I can't. I'd rather, do I rather have a Moser than an AP? no same C tier F tier Hublot IWC F tier Jacob Rico F tier Gisle Kult B tier Omega lovely lovely Kult C Panerai F Batek Philippe A tier Richard Mill A tier

1:54:38Jack Graham:Rolex A tier

1:54:45Nico Leonard:s tier industry wouldn't be here today without rolex like rolex has defined something that no other brand has been able to succeed is making the process the luxury aspect rather than the product it's the biggest marketing tool in the world it is the biggest brand of them all they're the king there's a reason they're the king seco really good the swatch really good i love swatch it's so adds so much value to the industry a tier t show value for money hands down t show prx one of the best watches out there uh for the money b tier like it tudor a tier love tudor love the new releases, Bachelorette Constantin, C tier,

1:55:33Nico Leonard:Zenith, D tier. I like that. It's a good list.

1:55:39Jack Graham:Cool.

1:55:40Nico Leonard:Did it make sense by criteria? It did. Did it make sense? It did, yeah.

1:55:43Jack Graham:We have one more for you. This right here is a specific watch tier list. Put these watches exactly as you would. What are the best? What are the worst?

1:55:53Nico Leonard:All right. I'm going to start with Jacob and call his F tier. Absolute rubbish. Apple watch I think it made a big impact on the industry I don't like it's not my gig and I also think we're all over connected by the way I think people shouldn't wear an Apple watch for a daily stuff if it's for sports it's fine I I rate that if it's for health it's fine and I want my mom and dad I want my mom to have an Apple watch if she falls really functional is a watch it's not really a watch. Deep, but it's, it has created so many risks, which is really important. AP Royal Oak, one of the most important watches in the industry, mate.

1:56:31Nico Leonard:Hans Dijn, S tier. It is, it changed the industry. It saved the industry. Hublot Big Bang, F tier, Richard Mille, RM 1103. B tier nowadays. If you asked me that last year, I would say, A tier, like, well, B tier today. Casio F91W, yeah, best watch value for money. It's from Osama to Obama. It was functional in every way, shape, or form. Osama used it to detonate bombs and Obama used it as his main watch. From Osama to Obama, the F91W is the best watch in the world. Bomb. The Casio, really cool. Love that watch. A tier. Done. Patek Philippe Nautilus. Yes, lovely. I own several of them. Cool. Very cool.

1:57:21Nico Leonard:still rated below sorry I can't this is really like I'm not there's not many people that will rate a Royal Oak above an Autolus but the Royal Oak was before the Autolus and it was the reason why the Swiss watch anyway A Long & Son a Datograph great watch one of the best chronographs out there if it's the platinum model depends on the materials of course I owned that Datograph my problem with A Long & Son is the service it's one of the worst service service in every in the entire industry they don't care they will not look after you so and I've experienced that several times first hand so for me C tier Cartier Santos one of the most important watches in the world I rate that a B that's not bad it's middle grind you see what I mean that's not bad Speedmaster B class good Submariner B perfect same snowflake nice watch But it's a Grand Seco And it's not better than a Rolex So I'd put that below a Rolex BRX, hands down One of the best value for money watches out there Don made a big impact, A tier Tudor, Black Bay Love it on the Jubilee bracelet, A tier No Yeah, it's, a Rolex, I would rate A Rolex of Marner above A Tudor, but it just, it's just so Positioned so well So don't get me wrong, it's positioned so well Like, there's several ways to rate this.

1:58:50Nico Leonard:I rate this my criteria. You know, fuck it. I don't care. It's my watch.

1:58:54Jack Graham:My rating. So after doing that, I want you to review my watch collection. I brought every single watch that I have, and it's available for members. So if you sign up as a member on the channel, you'll get the full video on this. Get fucking subscribe and I. Show some love and support, will you? Well, we are going to have you review Graham's entire collection for members only, but also we'll also end the podcast right here thank you guys so much for joining the iced coffee out thank you guys for watching if you made it to the end you're a real one seriously you're a real one we would not be here not for you guys and if you become a member

1:59:27Nico Leonard:he's gonna give you one of his watches one of his fake watches

1:59:30Jack Graham:one of his many fake watches yeah thank you for coming on the podcast do it you do it done stop being a cheap bastard do you want me to give you money here no no no please actually don't don't give him money I would hate for you to do that no stop stop don't help Chris I was like scrambling. Thank you guys so much for watching. Until next time. See ya.

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