BTC245: The Next Metaplanet? (Smarter Web Company) w/ Jesse Myers and Andrew Webley

27:11So for example, it might be a preference share that pays out a 10 % dividend. It would be called a dividend, not a coupon because it's an equity, but effectively it's structured like a bond. And then those people can hold that and it will pay that out for life, 10 % a year for life. Most people would like that. We would then introduce other things. So we might have one that pays out a different coupon, a different dividend, but then has a convertible option. So if the stock 2.5x is, for example, from when the debt was issued, which isn't really debt, it's an equity, then we allow them to convert that into common stock.

27:49So you can do these different funding solutions. And the great thing about what we can do is we can look at the great companies out there in the world. And the best two examples of those are Strategy in the US and Metaplanet in Japan. And we can use what they've learned. And indeed, because we're all friendly with each other, we can share with each other our experiences to make Bitcoin better by us all succeeding. Yeah, there's lots of different solutions that you can do because whilst, as we said earlier, this is a new area for a lot of people, there's a small concentration of which Jesse and I are part of that have been investing in this space for a number of years now and understand the different things that have worked.

28:33and also importantly, the things that haven't worked. You can often learn more by things that haven't worked for other people than you can from things that have worked for other people. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors. Curious about online trading, but haven't taken the first step yet? You're not alone. And Plus500 Futures is a great place to start. The futures markets are moving fast. And with Plus500, you can explore popular assets like oil, gold, S &P 500, Bitcoin, and more. From crypto to commodities, there's always something happening. The platform is super easy to use, so you can trade on the go right from your phone.

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31:05That's S-C-R-I-B-E dot how slash WSB. They say every day your business is late to AI, you fall two days behind, and the competition, they're only moving faster. Fortunately, there's NetSuite next. You probably already know NetSuite, the AI-powered business suite that securely connects all your data, financials, inventory, commerce, HR, and CRM all in one source of truth, trusted by over 43 ,000 customers. NetSuite Next is the next huge leap because now AI is built into everything you do. It surfaces custom insights throughout your day. AI agents work alongside you on the routine stuff. And anytime you've got a question about anything, you just ask, like you're talking to a colleague.

31:51And I use it. And really, I think you should too. For the first time ever, you can try NetSuite Next for free. If your revenue is at least in the seven figures, go to netsuite.ai slash tip. Built for every industry, ready for every boardroom, netsuite.ai slash tip. All right, back to the show. One of the most fascinating aspects to all of this that I'm finding is in Japan, the current policies are not accommodative for people to own Bitcoin through an ETF or anything like that. In the UK, it's the same scenario. And what it appears is that these treasury companies are an enormous backdoor that could end up turning into BlackRock-like vehicles because everything that we've just described in the dynamic that's playing out.

32:46And the balance sheet of your company, I mean, if I have to be honest with you, I think the balance sheet on your company is going to continue to blow minds just like Metaplanet did last year. That's my expectation to be quite honest with you in this coming year. When we listed the business, I was in New York for a family holiday that I had planned before we knew the IPO date. So I was in New York looking around fantastic city. I went to the Rockefeller Center. Now, when you're queuing up to go to the top of the rock, there's a fantastic model of all of the buildings and it blows your mind. And that was built, I don't know, let's say 100 years ago, something like that.

33:22Now, to me, this reminds me of those sorts of times 100 years ago, when there was something so significant happening in the world, that was not just the chance of a lifetime, but the chance of 100 years. And I think this is what's happening now. I'm sure Jesse has got some views on this as well. I don't want to get carried away and too ahead of our station here because we take a daily, weekly, monthly approach. We work hard every single day to grow the company, to improve every single week. But in a lot of ways, these companies are going to be almost like, and I don't like this analogy, but it's the best one that I've got, the banks of the future.

34:02And I mean that in a capital slash balance sheet perspective, because ultimately what you've got with us is you've got a business that's been publicly listed for two and a half months, that has got zero debt, that's got a very low cost base, that's got 150 million pounds of effectively cash in Bitcoin. And it doesn't take much to see how that's going to turn into billions and billions that's stored in the very best asset in the world that over the last 15 or so years has gone up approximately 30 % a year. So it's something that you've got to keep your feet on the ground about, but it's tremendously exciting.

34:40It's unreal. Yes. Jesse, go ahead. I agree. And I think Andrew does a great job there of highlighting that it's a building process. It's funny how it kind of mirrors Bitcoin's development as an asset of in the early days, there weren't sophisticated derivatives on it and the markets have slowly built out around it. And it's become a larger and larger asset in tandem with that development. And that's what's happening with these entities too. I mean, Metaplanet was a hotel business 15 months ago. And now they are - It still is. It still is. It still is. It still is with one hotel on a giant balance sheet.

35:17And increasingly, they have more sophisticated derivatives built out around them. And you can gather from the hints they're dropping of, they're moving towards preferred equities pretty quickly. And I think that will be a big step in advancing their playbook to tap into the bond market more directly, which is... Saylor likes to use that chart of mine of showing the global asset landscape. And I think the reason he likes to use it is because the bond market sticks out there. There's over$300 trillion in the world stuck in the bond market, getting mid-single-digit returns. Yep. This is the chart here.

35:53We're now up to$1 ,000 trillion of global asset value. Preston Pyshyshkoe 001 A quadrillion. Preston Pyshyshkoe 001 A quadrillion, which I've always... Preston Pyshyshkoe 001 Yeah, quadrillion. Preston Pyshyshkoe 001 I've caught myself saying the same thing you just said, Jesse, and then somebody corrected me like, Preston, it's just a quadrillion. I was like, I guess it is. I do say a thousand trillion just because people don't know what a quadrillion is. So you've heard of a trillion. But anyway, that's where we're at now. And of course, most of that is because the fiat money keeps losing its purchasing power.

36:22So it's not that assets are becoming more valuable. So the dollar is becoming less valuable. And that's true across all fiat currencies. But when you look at this chart, you see the bond market, there's this giant pool of capital that is getting... In the US, you get 4.5 % on a 10-year T-bill, and any decent bond is risk-adjusted somewhere at mid-single digits. And then here's Saylor turning around and saying, I'll give you 10 % if you give me your bond capital and I'll turn around and buy Bitcoin. As Andrew pointed out, I know Bitcoin is going to grow at 30 % a year, and I'll have no problem servicing that dividend expense of 10%.

37:00And so that's what strategy is now pivoting towards. And that will be the fuel source for them to continue to grow and continue to deliver Bitcoin yield going forward. And I think they're going to become the most valuable company in the history of the world by a very large margin as a result of what's happening. MetaPlanet is now, I think, shifting into that stage of its lifecycle as a Bitcoin treasury company. We're earlier in our development. It's still kind of the ground floor in many ways. but there's a path forward that MetaPlanet has now refined for us to follow of how you become the leader in your capital market.

37:39And I think it's going to be a winner take most in each capital market in the world. And eventually you can add on these preferred equities to make that value proposition to bond market capital in your country and tap into that as a fuel source for continuing to deliver on Bitcoin yield. Preston Pysh I love that framing, a winner take most. Yeah, I think you're right on that. real fast. I want to talk about the mechanics of how you did this, Andrew. So in the US, everybody's familiar with SPACs. If you've heard the term and you don't really kind of know what it is, it's effectively, there's no company there.

38:13What you have is a bunch of investors that put a bunch of money, call it$100 million into a public vehicle. And then they go and find a company that they can invest some of that 100 million into to take it public. So it's basically like a turnkey way of taking a company public, the shell sitting there ready to be used. And then when the private company is identified and purchased, then it becomes public. So in the UK, my understanding is that you did this reverse takeover of a listed shell. And is that correct? Yeah, similar. So what you would probably do a lot of the time is you would do exactly what you've said.

38:51So it's a bit like a SPAC. So you do a reverse takeover of a listed shell. we actually did a reverse takeover of an almost listed shell. So everything about what we've done has been a bit different, and maybe that's why it's worked. So it's relatively unusual to do a reverse takeover of an almost listed shell. I don't think I've ever heard of one before, actually. So what we did is when I decided that I wanted to list my business, I reached out to somebody who's our chairman, and I said, look, you understand everything that I don't understand about capital markets. And this person was able to fill in those gaps for me.

39:32And like a lot of the other things that's happened in the business, it's people meeting each other almost in a fake-like capacity at the right place and the right time. And he said to me, he said, Andrew, I love everything about what you're saying, but just change this one little bit. And I actually have got an almost listed shell that you can effectively have, which basically wasn't proceeding. I said to him, thank you much. That's great. So yeah, it was very similar to what you described, ever so slightly different. And the reason for that is that if you're a business in the UK, probably in America, it's quite expensive to list a private business.

40:08It would have given me, which is again, is smaller than in US terms, but it would cost me, let's say$500 ,000, $450 ,000 to list my business. And because the business was so small, we could actually get it going in a less risky profile. And the compromise I made there is maybe I gave more of my business away in equity, but I still think that I got a very good deal out of it. It was just a compromise to allow me to get that done quickly, efficiently with the experience of others. And so that's how you did it, Randy. You know, Jesse, we've been talking about for years about how fixed income has been bid for four decades and how all of this pressure has been built into these capital markets.

40:56And when you look at a company that's private versus one that's public and that they're able to kind of punch a hole into this pressure tank of capitalization that's occurred for decades, you can see how it's literally just spewing out onto the balance sheet of these companies. It's mind-bending to me to see this playing out in real time. Preston Pysh, MD, I think you nailed it. The sort of mental image I have for Bitcoin treasury companies is as something of like a release valve for over bid up equities valuations. And then, yes, it sounds crazy that you're buying Bitcoin at a 6M nav, right? It does.

41:36It does. premium, but it's delivering in this sort of PE ratio way in under a year. Or you can keep buying Apple and wait 35 years to get your money back. And I think in that way, we're seeing just the early stages of a flood of capital exiting from the overpriced traditional market assets into Bitcoin treasury companies because of what they're delivering on. I mean, SmarterWeb has 1275 Bitcoin right now. So just over a thousand Bitcoin. And that'll be very hard for almost any company to achieve 10 years from now. And that's happened here in three months, and we're adding at a very rapid rate and we'll continue to do so going forward.

42:21So where is value here? I think it's quite clear that investors are realizing that this model, while different from a traditional income statement PE ratio valuation of an equity. This is delivering massive value very quickly, as we've seen with MetaPlanet, as we've seen with strategy over the last five years. And I think this is just the beginning of what will really become an industry. It's already blossoming into an industry of Bitcoin treasury companies repricing capital in the world and helping that capital flow from overvalued traditional markets into undervalued Bitcoin, and specifically here, companies that are designed to deliver on Bitcoin yield, increase Bitcoin per share for their shareholders.

43:07Preston Pyshko I'm thinking through this, and I love how you're comparing it to PE. And it's almost like days to cover is the inverse of the PE for, like, that's really the metric to kind of look at is this days to coverage from a value standpoint. Is that right? In the way I'm framing it? Really interesting. And I've never quite thought of it in these terms. But chatting to you and Jesse now, one thing that is a bit out there and a bit extreme. But if you think about days to cover in the sense that that gives you your true valuation, and then you think about the typical PE in terms of years, it's quite mind-blowing in the sense that we're talking about one month, one and a half months, even in the biggest companies, two years or whatever.

43:55Whereas if you buy Apple stock or Nvidia stock or any of these other fantastic companies of which I own some of them, you're talking 10, 20, 30, 40 years. So in a lot of ways, whilst I don't want to get carried away again, and I'm going to have to think this one through very carefully later, but Bitcoin treasury companies are absolutely a screaming buy if you think that you can get that value of what you're buying back in such a short time period. So either the stocks are ridiculously expensive, or the Bitcoin treasury companies are incredibly cheap, or maybe it's somewhere in the middle. It's certainly both, I think.

44:33Yeah. And Andrew's quite right that there are things that remain grounded about winner take most. And there's going to be a lot of competitors that pop up claiming to do something, aspiring to get that marketing boost of, like, oh, we're now a Bitcoin treasury company that are either not set up to do it or don't have the follow through commitment. I mean, we've seen GameStop sort of trot into this sort of positioning as we're going to do Bitcoin, and then they kind of half-assed it. And the market didn't like that, right? So there's ways to do it right, and there's ways to do it wrong. And I think the reality is the vast majority of companies that set out to do something like this will not do it well enough.

45:14And so investors do need to be careful that they're picking the right one, because it will be winner take most, and you need to make sure that you're positioned accordingly. So one of the things that I think is super important for anybody to wrap their head around listening to this conversation is Bitcoin has annualized volatility of about 80%, okay, on an annualized basis, anywhere from 60 % to 80 % annualized. And so although we're all very enthusiastic about this, there are massive volatility risks associated with it. When we're using this metric days to cover, and if we would treat that like earnings and it's in days versus 30 plus years for some of these other companies that we're more accustomed to from evaluation metric, you always have to ask yourself, what you get in one advantage, which is stability in this old system where you don't have to worry about that much volatility.

46:08It's all been just purchased out of the stock. The advantage you get over here is value potentially, if you buy into the whole Bitcoin thesis, which we all three obviously do. But what you get with that is intense volatility. And people just have to deeply understand that. Just to add to that, I think Michael Saylor kind of pioneered this phrase, but I heard it most from the Metaplanet community of volatility is vitality when it comes to this strategy in particular. You want volatility because that volatility skews to the upside. That's the important thing to know about volatility in Bitcoin in general, and certainly in Bitcoin treasury companies.

46:44In TradFi, people are afraid of volatility. It's a scary word because volatility is associated with sharp down days. Because volatility literally skews, if you look at the histogram of volatility, it skews negative. But in Bitcoin, it skews very strongly positive. You want that volatility and Bitcoin treasury companies amplify Bitcoin's volatility. Guys, where I want to get - That's why people having responsible portfolio management is important though. If you take myself, I obviously love the sector, not quite 100%, but almost 100 % of my wealth is in Bitcoin treasury companies and Bitcoin, very little in anything else, because I think it's the best thing ever.

47:23And I'm incredibly passionate about it. And I also run a Bitcoin treasury company. But take my mum or my brother or anyone like that, best friend, I don't know, 5%, 10%, something like that of their liquid portfolio. So people need to, like with everything in investing, they need to understand what they're investing in and they need to get those percentages right. Jesse and I, we love Bitcoin treasury companies because we love maths. So we understand percentages to a degree. Now, an investor thinking about investing in this particular space, they need to understand what percentages mean. And maybe slightly longer term, they need to understand rebalancing, as an example, even somebody that was very old, that was nearing their retirement, I would probably suggest that they need an allocation to Bitcoin alongside the allocation to whatever boring thing that they've invested in that ironically won't perform very well if it's bonds.

48:21So they take the volatility and they use the percentage allocation to smooth it out. That's what I would recommend to... Well, you're about to be in the preferred market, which is going to give that type of person that's getting ready to be in retirement exactly what you just described. I want to talk about this real fast with you guys. This is the last topic I really want to get into. And sorry, I don't even think we're going to get to your slides here, Jesse. I'm not on time, Preston. I want to talk about preferreds. So I'm sharing a back and forth that I had with Josh Mann, who is an incredible thinker, absolute incredible thinker.

49:01And he brought up this idea that Stride has this option to basically rug pull the coupons because they're non-cumulative. And I've been thinking about this, and I think some others in this space have been thinking about this. And you hear Michael going around, he says, it's money I can borrow forever that I never have to pay back. And when he says it, I'm thinking to myself, why is he saying it like that. Why is he saying it like that? So what I did is I did a discount cashflow analysis of the dividends of a perpetual dividend. This is a preferred stock that you have to pay the dividend forever and they're cumulative.

49:42So if you miss payment, they just add up and then you eventually have to make that before anybody else below you can receive dividends in the future. And what I found so fascinating is when you apply the power law, let's say Bitcoin continues to go on this power law and its return is diminishing each year, the percent that it's growing is diminishing each year, but it's still growing very aggressively. But if I use that as my benchmark for what the underlying Bitcoin value is, what I did is I plotted out these dividend payments for the preferred. And what I found is that after about 10 years, and I don't know if this is going to make this bigger.

50:23Yeah, there we go. This is better. After about 10 years, this is what the effective dividend is compared to the Bitcoin that was raised in the initial issuance of the preferred stock. So this is the$8 annual dividend compounded. So at issuance, the dividend would be here, after the first year, that dividend, because Bitcoin's continuing today, is compounding at about 40 % to 50 % annualized. So that$8 dividend turns into like$5.20. The year after that, that dividend's down here at about$3. Then it's at about$2.50. Then it's at$2. And you can see at about 10 years, look at where you're at. You're almost at zero if Bitcoin continues to perform the way that the power law suggests it's going to perform over the next 10 years.

51:11So for a person that issues this preferred stock, 10 years later, the dividend payments are de minimis compared to what people think it is in nominal dollar terms today and what that call this perpetual drag. When you got a dividend that you're going to pay on a preferred, it's perpetual drag, especially one that's not callable. So this is the really fun part. So this top line, this orange, is if you add up all these dividend payments, this is the net present value of the issuance itself. Based on this valuation system that I applied using Bitcoin in the power law to this preferred issuance, this is the micro strategy one.

51:54This came on the market, I want to say it IPO'd at around$86 to$90 a share. And according to this discount cashflow model, the real value, if you put it in Bitcoin terms is around like 18 bucks or 18, yeah,$18 versus the 86 that it came on the market for. If you're using Bitcoin as your unit of account, as opposed to dollars, and this is a perpetual, right? I only did it for 20, a person who's like really into the math on this stuff. They say, well, this goes on forever. And you only did 20 years. I look back at that person. I say, yeah, but like, look at the chart and you can see it's maxed out.

52:32Like, okay, yeah, it's$18.34 instead of$0.25. The reason why that's possible is because of Bitcoin. So obviously, if you believe in Bitcoin, like we all do, that's the most important thing, but then it makes perfect sense. But what you're able to do is you're able to offer pretty much unlimited stock because the investment that is generated is going into the best asset in the world, as opposed to going into a business to grow, say, a particular type of microchip or a particular type of computer software. So in some ways, the money going into Bitcoin, if you're not comfortable with that, that's the risk.

53:15But in return for that, you're not being exposed to the management risk, the idea risk, the limited life cycle of the thing that's being created. It's going into Bitcoin. So that's the reason why that works. And then if it was a traditional business, they might only want to do, say,$100 million worth of the pref stock, for example. But as a potential issuer of preferred stock, you can take billions and billions and billions of dollars into that if there's demand for it and know that you can do that model. So it's pure genius. Well, what I would also say, so a person who would see that slide and hear what we just said, they'd say, so you're ripping people off by issuing these preferred stock.

53:56And what I would come back to that person and say is, no, you're providing an 8%, 10 % dividend that they can't get anywhere else with the risk profile that they're getting it of whether it's actually going to be paid back. This is back, call it 10 to 1 or 5 to 1 or whatever your metrics are, which I don't know. But I would imagine they're in that ballpark. Well, when you guys do this, which I'm assuming is going to be soon. It might take some time. It might take some time. Okay. So you got to build a certain balance sheet first, I think. Yeah. But I mean, a thousand Bitcoin, I mean, in six months could be, and you guys have more than a thousand at the rate you're going.

54:32But let's just use micro strategy since we know what those numbers are. It is heavily capitalized, way more than what the issuance is. Okay. And so you're getting this eight to 10 % dividend. your bottom withdrawal, the value that it could drop to is limited in an extreme way because the dividend is there. So the fact that you have this dividend paying it out somewhat caps the bottom side of it. And then on the strike issuance, as an example, because it actually has a convert piece to it, you're getting 80 % of Bitcoin's underlying performance in the preferred stock itself, which is crazy. So for a person who needs, so yeah, a person who needs income, like, I mean, every boomer in the world is starved for some type of income out of their investments.

55:24One does like full stop. And he's capitalized that to approximately 4%. So he's issued approximately 4 % of the balance sheet as pref stock with the different types of prep stock. So it's pretty cautious. It's a fantastic set of products. There's no doubt about it. And to expand on Jesse's point, we probably need to be five times the size, I would suggest, to do that. So without making a prediction, six months, one year. I mean, based on the math, you guys are 35 days to cover, right? So is that the quick math that you'll be there in six months? Well, that is historically looking. And And the reality of this math is it has to slow down as you scale.

56:05So it will be harder to do the next cover than the prior cover. That's just the math of it, but it won't slow down. Preston Pysh And a lot of this math, I think this is important too. A lot of this math is dependent on us continuing to be in a bull market in Bitcoin. Preston Pysh Yeah, that's right. And us continuing to be in a seismic shift in how people allocate their capital, which I think that's what's really different here is that this is a little bit beyond Bitcoin's cycles. What's happening now with Bitcoin treasury companies is a systemic shift of value reallocating to where there's a better value proposition than buying Apple.

56:48Preston Pyshko I want to get into the stock, like the actual price of the stock, but I know that we can't do that. But anyway, guys, We'll wrap it up there. We're in an hour. I loved this conversation. I think this is crazy illuminating. I think it's sending shockwaves, absolute shockwaves in the process of security analysis, period. Yeah. And it's very interesting that this is happening on Bitcoin Twitter and in Bitcoin circles. People are figuring out on the fly that these things are undervalued. And yeah, you're paying a premium versus the Bitcoin holdings, but it's because of of what it can deliver in the future.

57:25And when you run that math, this is unbelievable. I'd also say that there's a place in, I think there's a place in everyone's portfolio for Bitcoin, spot Bitcoin. There's also a place for risk in Bitcoin. And I think for me, Bitcoin treasury companies are the value proposition that I find most compelling in terms of that framework. Preston Pysh, I've got one final slide. I lied here. We're going to put up one more slide that you made, Jesse. I hope it's in this. Okay, hold on one second. I'm going bring this up. And this goes to the point that you just made, because your opinion is that this is what's playing out right now, correct?

58:00Trey Lockerbie Yeah, I'll walk you through this. So this originally came from an article I wrote called Asset DNA, which built on Pierre Richard's speculative attack. It was in the very early days of strategy. They had just done their first convertible note in late 2020. And I wrote this to describe what's happening here. Why does it make sense for strategy to borrow and borrow dollars and buy Bitcoin. And this was the summary view of it, minus this top line, which is Bitcoin treasury companies, which I added this year. But the reality of assets, in my view, in the world right now is that assets perform in different ways.

58:38Yeah, with equities, you're going to have some degree of return. But Bitcoin, because of its endogenous properties, and its early stage of adoption, has more attractive properties than anything else out there from an investment point of view. So if you can borrow dollars to buy Bitcoin, and then wait for those properties of those assets to play out, the dollars will decrease in purchasing power that you owe. And the Bitcoin will massively grow in purchasing power, allowing you to settle up that debt or roll that debt or whatever in the future. And it will have worked out for you or the company to have done that.

59:14And so this is that summary view of like, this is why those mechanics make sense and why strategy started doing what they are doing. And I added to it this year because I realized that now in my view, there's an asset class that can perform better than Bitcoin. And it's Bitcoin treasury companies, specifically because their entire goal and their mandate from shareholders is to accumulate more Bitcoin per share. So the only thing better than Bitcoin is more Bitcoin, as Saylor likes to say, And Bitcoin treasury companies are designed to achieve that. Yes, it comes with some risk, because you have to execute on that.

59:49And there's custody involved, and you can't do self-custody like you can with your spot Bitcoin. But all in all, that value proposition, I think, risk-adjusted, is the most compelling thing in the world right now. Preston Pyshko I love it. Gents, I loved it. I love this conversation. If people want to learn more about your company, Andrew, give them a handoff. And Jesse, anything else that you want to add after, Andrew? The best thing to do is to go to our website, which is www.smarterwebcompany.co.uk. Or if you're on Axe, just go to SmarterWebUK. Or you can find me personally on Axe, which is A-S-J-Webley, W-E-B-L-E-Y.

1:00:31Any of those places are good. There's loads of information on our website, loads of information on Axe, great community on X. And then over to Jesse. Yeah, I guess the one thing I'd add is, we sort of talked around it a little bit, but I think that there's a winner that will emerge in each capital market. And this is my view. It's also the view of UTXO Management, which was the seed investor in MetaPlanet and also in SmarterWeb. And I think that's right. I think that what's happening here is that there will be a winner take most in each capital market. market. We've seen that in the US, that's strategy.

1:01:03We've seen it in Japan, that's MetaPlanet. And right now there's a race for that in other capital markets too. SmarterWeb has a 10x lead, has emerged as the first out of the gate, doing it right in the UK, with a 10x lead in terms of Bitcoin held and in market cap and every other metric you want to come up with. And that makes it a very exciting time for us at SmarterWeb and for the community that's developing around this, because we've seen what MetaPlanet was able to do by following the same path over the last 15 months. And it makes it a very exciting opportunity for us to just continue delivering on that same playbook that they've laid out so nicely.

1:01:43And I think that will also happen in every other capital market in the world, and it will happen fast. It will happen in the next year. So now is the time for people to pay attention to what's going on. And And also, I think, an opportunity for everyone to make the most of it. I love it. All right, guys. Thank you for your time. We'll have all the links in the show notes to that. And thanks for joining me. Thank you, Preston. Thank you for listening to TIP. Make sure to follow Bitcoin Fundamentals on your favorite podcast app and never miss out on episodes. To access our show notes, transcripts or courses, go to theinvestorspodcast.com.

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