BTC251 : Tech Abundance w/ Jeff Booth

0:00You're listening to TIP. Hey, everybody. Welcome to this Wednesday's release of the Bitcoin Fundamentals podcast. On this week's show, I have back author, entrepreneur, and technology expert Jeff Booth on the show. And the reason Jeff is here is because I have a big announcement and he's the perfect person for me to present this additional direction and scope of the show with. I don't want to give away too much, so we're just going to jump right into the show. I hope you guys enjoy.

0:50Hey everyone, welcome to the show. I'm here with the one and only Jeff Booth. Welcome back. It's so great to see you buddy. Hey, so the impetus for this discussion kind of percolated out of you and I just having a candid conversation on where I wanted to go with the show and what I'm trying to do. And what we quickly realized is that a discussion between the two of us might be warranted to kind of bridge in where I plan on going with all of this. So I appreciate you making time and just, you know, I mean, you're obviously a good friend, but I also look at you as a mentor as well, Jeff. So thank you for coming on and having this conversation with me.

1:28No problem. Do you want to drop the bomb right away? I think we should. I think, you know, like, why are we doing this? What is this all about? So I guess I'll start off and obviously chime in where you feel it's pertinent. But I really want to cover more things on the show. I cover Bitcoin every single week. And as an engineer and as somebody who's just deeply curious in general, I'm looking at everything that's what I think is going to play out in the coming 10 years. And I think that this coming decade is going to be completely nuts. I think there's going to be so much change. And I kind of want to cover a lot of this and I want to cover it from different angles.

2:08And first and foremost, your thesis, Jeff, of the price of tomorrow was a massive change and just shift in how I think about everything. Like this idea of deflation in technology is something that just changed how I was looking at economics, how I was looking at Bitcoin. I was already a Bitcoiner, but it just entrenched everything that I thought I knew in a much deeper way because I wasn't looking at technology as a thing that was compounding with time in the opposite direction of what the fiat was compounding in the other direction. And when you kind of combine those things together, it was just like my mind exploded.

2:51And so this is what I'm trying to say in a lot of words, I guess. I want to start covering robotics. I want to start covering AI. I want to start covering nuclear and the whole gambit of all of these technologies that seem to be each their own vector, kind of all pointing to this idea of a monetary revolution. I think that they all intersect and they all interrelated. And I want to start covering all of that. So go ahead, Jeff, tell the audience what you told me when we were talking on the phone. I just thought it made perfect sense. I've known you now for quite a while, but I've always known you to be super curious about where the world's going and actually not afraid to change your mind on something.

3:33If new information makes sense. And that's a massive strength. It's actually, I think it's why your podcast is so successful. people because that's what you've done and people followed your journey the entire time and so now take what you know and you've chased Bitcoin to the ground every hole every spot and I don't think you're not saying you're giving up on Bitcoin you're just saying this is a base layer or society I've chased it to the ground it is Bitcoin it reinforces that the pre-market is deflation and we've never lived in one. If Bitcoin stays decentralized and secure, it is inevitable that we are living in one.

4:12Let's explore the other technologies that are allowing that to accelerate. And so exploring some of those other technologies, when we say technologies, when I hear you describe them, they're not other things. They're us inventing new things to be able to solve problems. our ideas that are the basis of technology. And that's what now we have a base layer that allows all of that abundance to flow to all of us, where the free market is, it's massively competitive. Everyone has to compete to provide value to you. And if you're holding Bitcoin, if you're part of the Bitcoin ecosystem, all of that abundance is flowing to you.

4:49So you're looking at all of that. If you're part of the system, all of that abundance is being extracted from you and centralized against you. And so you already understand Bitcoin and you understand it to the same. So I'm sure you're going to weave it in from time to time because it's important that people understand that phenomenon, what's happening. But I love that you're going to go and explore your mind, your curiosity to explore some of these other tools. I'm still going to cover Bitcoin. I just, you know, it might not be every week, but I'm still going to bring on guests and talk about Bitcoin and whatever new is developing.

5:25But I guess from my vantage point, I'm looking at other nation states that are adopting it. I'm looking at the number of corporations that are adopting it. I'm looking at it from just a pure technical standpoint, which we've covered ad nauseam on the show. And I'm saying, I just don't see what's going to supplant it or what's going to outpace it long-term. But I'm looking at all these other things and I'm saying the deflation that's happening, like this optimist robot, humanoid robot. We will talk about that, I guess, a little bit more. But when I'm looking at things like that, I'm looking at AI, I'm looking at these virtual worlds that they're using to train the potentially trained humanoid robots and all this kind of stuff.

6:06And I'm thinking, this is going to be absolutely insane in the coming decade. And I'm combining that with what I'm seeing in Bitcoin. And I'm saying, how in the world can any of these sovereign entities that are just printing pieces of paper at a breakneck pace, possibly compete with Bitcoin or where this is all going from an abundance standpoint. And I just think the story is so much bigger, like so much bigger. And I just want to kind of, I want to cover each one of these topics, but I also want to cover how they get stitched together and how they're all interrelated from a much bigger picture to kind of maybe understand where we think a lot of this is going.

6:50So, yeah. Yeah, so let's just keep on. Let's just have a conversation and pull on these threads. And these threads are important to pull on because most Bitcoiners still today are not understanding that the natural state of the free market is depletion and prices should fall. And if you're measuring in Bitcoin, prices are falling at the same rate as that technology is growing. So if you measure things from Bitcoin instead of convert Bitcoin to your piece of paper, then you'll see exactly, precisely what I'm saying. Your model of the world should match, if it's correct, should match exactly what's happening.

7:27So the model I laid out in the world as Bitcoin is free market's deflation, technology's going to accelerate. And it's not accelerating, it's moving exponentially. And we didn't, we couldn't understand exponentials. And that meant all of these technologies, they're going to coincide at the same time as this rate. We can't even understand. And it's going to seem crazy. But if you were in Bitcoin, then all prices are falling by that rate. If you were not in Bitcoin, all of that has to be consolidated at that rate. And it would look like coercion and control. Most people are giving this system of coercion and control more energy by leaning into it, by their fear in it.

8:08Because they're not pricing Bitcoin. They're not spending in Bitcoin. They're using a derivative instrument of Bitcoin, thinking price is going up. That system is still inflationary. That system has to still be inflationary. And it's the opposite of what I'm saying. The opposite of the pre-market prices go down. Meaning we've never lived in a global pre-market. Nobody has a basis to understand that. And it takes lots of time to understand what's happening. At the same time, all of these technologies are moving exponentially, hitting chaos in our brain from our previous models. We'll just use some examples of if that model of reality was correct.

8:47And in my mind, it certainly is because it's explaining everything. Not one thing, everything. What would it feel like? Let's use some examples. And let's use some examples of why it would gain more fear in the minds of most of the population. Let's use some simpler examples first. I'm going to lose my job. Prices are going up. Prices are going up. I'm going to lose my job to AAR. What do I do? I turn to the government. I'm spending in the fiat dollar and say, what does the government do? I'll save you because I'll get votes. How do I save you? I print more money, destroy, and I get worse for you.

9:22Accelerate. Accelerate at the same pace as technology is moving the other way. It centralizes faster. What do laws look like in that system? They get changed and all your freedoms go away from that centralization because they have to, you're voting for what does technology look like over you? It looks like a control system owned by three or four or two giant monopolies of AI companies that all of your information is going through and you're feeding it, making it stronger, where they can turn you off at any moment. Not just money, but everything. Or potentially worse, because you're feeding it in that system.

10:01Your mind is being warped to what that system wants you to believe. But you have no idea because you're inside that system through fear, making it stronger, which, how do I survive? That would happen. What would happen as it got worse and worse and worse? And I'm going down the fear track at first because that's majority of the population is living in that fear without realizing they're living in that fear. What they are saying is it's someone else. It's not me. Somebody else is responsible for my happiness and they're stuck in that fear. but has more and more coercion and control and as the free market gives us tools to essentially create our own AIs bioengineering and what will people do that want to burn it all down but the same technology that could free all of us they will use those technologies to create massive problems for the world right because they're so stuck and what will the system do in reaction, try to stop it.

11:02How will it stop it? It will drive more printing money, more coercion, more control. Will most people in the system do? Yes, stop them. What will those people do? Because they're so hurt from that, they will want to burn it down. It'll divide society and it'll get worse and worse. And I know that's a really dystopian view, but I just want to make sure why I use that as an example, because these technologies are inevitable anyways. They're coming no matter what. Mm-hmm. When you think robot or robot dogs or your fear is what that will look like. You're seeing a tiny, tiny section of what will happen.

11:38And there's only nanorobots. So every robot of different uses, not just in our lights, but purpose-built robots to be able to do all of this. There'll be swarms robots. We say that are already in drones today. It'll be everywhere. And AI will be a driver of all those things. This is coming no matter what. The free market demands that all of the prices, the abundance from that, those that flows to you. Because an entrepreneur cannot create more value without you using more value and it flowing to you. You're a part of the free market. In the world I describe from Bitcoin, there would be no reason to fight with everybody, to divide everybody.

12:19Because your life would be getting better and better and better and better and better and better and better from all of the same thing. the only way as an entrepreneur instead of it looking like three or two or three big food monopolies, drug monopolies, robot monopolies, AI monopolies that are going to merge and all interact with the government with your money together to control you. But money has been stolen from you. There will be thousands of companies by individuals trying to deliver value to you. And there can't be a monopoly in the world that I'm describing. I think that's the thing also that I want to make sure is covered is this idea of open source technology as it relates to AI, as it relates to robotics, as it relates to all of these different things.

13:07Because if the money, like you're describing Bitcoin, is there providing value and incentivizing cooperation, as opposed to the opposite, which is what fiat's doing, the incentive for open source technologies is going to proliferate with time. And somebody needs to cover, somebody needs to be talking about some of this stuff. And we're seeing it already. You and I had a conversation last week about an OS that was open source that's through a web browser, things like that. I find that stuff so fascinating and so important for the world to see. I think I just saw last week, one employee took the entire weights of XAI's current model and took it to OpenAI.

13:55And so I think another part with this existing system and the way that all these technologies are being built is I think they're very precarious to protection. And I think that with time, the models, like some of these very advanced models are going to be leaked. And I think you're going to have this movement from an open source standpoint that is somewhat unstoppable in the same direction that you just kind of described the proliferation of these fiat based tech and centralized technologies. It's the classic, you know, you're watching a movie and there's the villain and, you know, some positive cooperative force entity, individual or whatever, almost has to be able to be stood up to counter it.

14:43And I think that we're seeing this literally play out in real time with the world and the way that it's shaped and the technology and all this stuff that's happening. And I guess I want to cover all of it. I want to be there covering all of it. You're going to be super important in that, like super important in that. Because every one that I see covering that right now, everyone I see covering it right now, they have a bias within the fiat world. Meaning it all gets centralized at a faster rate. Just in the story, you just keep on coming down to the first principle. Yeah. The natural state of the free market is deflation.

15:16Prices fall to the marginal cost of production. What would you expect to happen in that natural state of the world? You would expect as technology exploded, prices default, marginal cost of production every year. What's happening in the world? Not that. Unless you're getting built. Unless you're measuring in Bitcoin. Yeah. Unless you're in Bitcoin. And so even when you say open source, open source is fantastic. And I'm a huge proponent, but it won't need to be open source because they're everywhere, because entrepreneurs are going to compete. And if what they're giving you does, if it provides value for a while, then somebody else, because of the margin they're making, will compete with them.

15:57That's right. And prices will fall. And so today, where does the money for open source come from? money from open source comes from somebody wanting to donate that they're making this money over here to this other system so it's money that money for open source not that that's bad or good or anything else i love that the money is still coming from somebody who has made the money from a broken system it is that is donating and if money dries up and then there is no open source the free market has to win we are a part of the free market the more you do in the free market more you do in Bitcoin, the faster it wins.

16:32Every one of us, every single person on the planet has agency in that discussion. If you're not in that discussion, so now you take what you know about Bitcoin, what you know about your own agency operating in a system that needs to remain decentralized and secure for this global abundance to flow to all of us. And you've married out with all of these technologies and you will stitch together a show like no one else's show because because all of those other shows are through a fiat lens. Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors. Curious about online trading, but haven't taken the first step yet?

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20:42That is totally nuts for him to come out and say that based on what we know about Tesla today and the cars and like where all of that's at. And just, you can just see where he thinks all of this is going. Like very quickly for a product that hasn't even launched yet. He's, and I know Elon can be very. He can say things way ahead of time. That's their value. No, what he's not saying is, is that value? Because what you're describing, even in that tweet, he's describing in that tweet. he's describing i'm going to have the largest company in the world and it's going to be a giant monopoly because it's fake that's what he's describing or what people are reading what he's not describing is he's being regraced by bitcoin right now his company is being regraced by bitcoin right now and over bitcoin's term that 80 can be a really small company with thousands of competitors and it still might be true oh yeah i see what you're saying right you see what i should And I know because I'm pretty close to the robotics sector, but very close to AI.

21:47He is. That's why he bought X or Tres Y. Yeah. To digest the information, your information, to be able to train the models, add those models to the Tesla, to the vision that Tesla has and all of the vision models to be able to build this. He's got a fantastic engineering team and he is one of the leaders, but those leaders are coming out of China as well. Yeah. Leaders are at a crazy rate. Look at, there's a BYD, look at the cars coming out of China in comparison to the cars coming out of Chesla. And you'll see, wow, that competition is real. Yeah. That competition is not the only one doing this and he's not winning everywhere.

22:29He's winning where he has a regulatory vote. You know, what's interesting about the car thing. So we were over in Dubai and we were talking to some of the people, the Uber drivers that were driving us around and some of the cars, I'd never seen some of these cars before that were on the road. And I started talking to one guy about it and he said, oh yeah, a lot of these are Chinese car manufacturers. And what was weird was some of them looked like a Range Rover or some of them looked like brands in the US, like almost identical. But then you get inside and the bells and whistles that they have inside and the intelligence in the car was off the charts.

23:09And I'm there thinking to myself, well, this was the other point was the price was so much cheaper than what you would pay for one of these Western car brands. And then it dawned on me, it's like they are eating the data out of these cars, where they're driving, what they're saying inside, all of it at a discount or maybe even cost so that they can collect all that information. And so to your point, which I think is very salient, is the competition isn't just like what we're seeing here in the US or what we're being fed through our social media feed. So much of this brace of deflation, technological deflation is happening on an international scale.

23:50And I think like way more profound and way more competitive than many of us realize. So way more. And so those cars are a third of the price. Wow. And so they're marked that they're just losing money on them for the, for the, they might not be losing money. Their labor is cheaper. These are dark robotics factories that are AI being becoming AI built. They don't have any light top. They don't have any humans. So first the human labor was a lot cheaper and the human labor was cheaper because I know it was using technology. The currency is an advantage to keep their exports up, to have the human labor cheaper.

24:28So their labor was cheaper. What did the pre-market do? All of the U.S. companies that were trying to compete for your dollars funneled all their production to China because the labor was cheaper. What did that do? China needed to be competitive at a price that was lower and lower and lower. So they automated, automated, automated. They created some of these first dark factories that didn't have humans in them so that they could reach price point. As the U.S. regulatory mode on their cars protected Tesla and GM and other cars, what did China market do? They sold those cars to anyone else who wanted to buy them.

25:06And that's why they're lower cost, not because they're giving them away. How far out do you, and I have, for people that are looking at the video, I have the optimist robot pulled up here and just showing like all the different tasks that it's being trained on. and like what this impact might be moving forward. When you look at stuff like this, Jeff, I mean, this is your thesis from five, six years ago when you wrote the book. What kind of world is this going to be? And from what I read, this is going to be in households, call it three years from now, you're going to be able to have something like this in your house, maybe four.

25:41And then at scale, you're probably seven, eight years out where these things are everywhere. And it's not just, like you said, just not just this robot. It's going to be all sorts that are maybe more specialized for the factory. I think the humanoid ones are going to be the ones that go into the homes. But when you think about how much labor is going to be eaten away at with things like this, I can't even wrap my head around it. Yeah. So when you're showing this, now some of the stuff that's happening behind the scenes to do that first in that video, you saw a whole bunch of humans. Five years, it won't look like that.

26:16But to do the hand articulation, to figure how much pressure do I put on this object to be able to pick this up, to cut, to sweep, to do all of these things that you're talking about, tie it into everything else, to walk, to... These are complex tasks. They're being tackled at a rate it's hard to comprehend. I saw a robot skin investment that I didn't actually make, but it was, most of this is done by cameras today. It takes tons of camera dimensions and everything else, tons of data to be able to train this. Censored skin is the same feel, touch as we do. And then all of that data is collected into the models because it has all of these sensors.

27:00And think about what it would look like in gaming, right? If you had haptic sensors everywhere and what that gaming would look like. now cover a robot in the same, have big sensors everywhere. And now it picks up more information for the AI to learn at a greater pace and can do all these things. So this, the confluence of all of these things is happening at a rate that if you're outside of it, and it's going to be interesting, I mean, for all your journey and your new show too, because you're going to be able to weave together this plus this, plus this, plus this, plus this, plus this, and all what's happening on Bitcoin to show, wow, the rate of, that's what this means, where so many people are in a silo, one of these silos, and not understanding how the greater picture all unfolds together.