A Playbook for First-Time Founders with Nancy Twine 

0:0010 years ago, I made the decision to build my personal brand that was elevated, yet approachable, and reflected who I was, not just what I did. I created my website with ShowIt because it's true drag-and-drop freedom, so you can easily build and update your site. Plus, their real human support team, game changer. Want to try it for yourself? Head to jasminestar.com forward slash showit for a 14-day free trial and first month free when you subscribe. Welcome back to the Jasmine Star Show, a place where we talk about life, business, and today we're talking about business legacy. Oh, you want to change generations?

0:32You want to show up in different ways? I have the perfect person who's going to come in and not just talk about how to build a business because she will. She's not just going to talk about how to build phenomenal products and get them in places like Sephora because she will. She's not even going to talk about, or maybe she will, about a very successful exit and then deciding to start a new business. Her whole tenet and her whole belief is how great would it be for you to use your success and help other people get there or find their own way in a faster way, in a stronger way, a more confident way.

1:03Nancy Twine, thank you for joining the Jasmine Starr Show, current founder and CEO of Vriogeo. Exactly. Yeah. So your whole intent and the reason why we're here is for somebody to listen and say, at the end of the episode, I know more. I'm feeling confident. And my business is about purpose beyond me. Yeah. And so how did you get to this? Like, this is what I'm going to do now. Because you're very successful and you're also running businesses and you're building your personal brand and you have a podcast and you have a grant. And we're going to talk about all of that. Why add this other component?

1:43What is that driving force behind it? Yeah, for sure. So, you know, I started my business, you know, after I actually lost my mom. That was really sort of the catalyst for me wanting to actually switch careers. I started my career on Wall Street. It was 2007. It was the start of a financial crisis. And it was a really, really tough environment, especially being a woman working in sales and trading. And when I lost my mom pretty suddenly over a decade ago, it really started to shift my perspective about, you know, how you spend your time because life can be so short. And the truth is we spend so much of our life working.

2:26And if we don't love what we do, it was so hard for me to stomach that. And I really started pivoting to try to figure out what I was passionate about. And I have this really interesting family history. My mom was a physician and also a chemist. And we used to make so many of our own beauty products at home using clean and natural ingredients. and I absolutely loved doing that, learning that you could take these simple, clean ingredients and actually turn them into effective beauty products and that became the catalyst and I can talk more about it for me starting my business. But when I was starting out, I was the sole founder of my company.

3:08I was so heads down. I was just focused 24-7 on my business and eventually I got to a place of scale. I ended up exiting my business. And for me, it wasn't just, okay, sail off into the sunset, but it became this new passion and purpose calling to figure out how could I leverage my learnings and my journey to actually help other women who are going through and going down a similar path. Okay. So we're going to talk about the business, but I want to go back to the juncture between leaving Wall Street and starting this? Was there an overlap or was this big declaration, your moment of saying, I'm going all in?

3:51What did that look like? Because I want people to identify where they are and how close they are to your journey. Totally. So there was definitely an overlap. I don't know many people who can just come up with an idea and say, I'm going to quit my job immediately. And I also don't recommend it because of the fact that even though you have this big idea and you believe in it, it takes time to get to a place of being able to, you know, be self-sustaining. And sometimes if you, you know, take the leap too quickly and you're so stressed out about how you're going to pay your bills, it can actually be a huge distraction from, you know, doing what you need to do to scale your business.

4:31So there were a few years where I was still, you know, working my full-time finance job and I was spending my nights and weekends, you know, building Briogeo, getting our formulas finalized, getting our brand book created, putting together the strategy for how I was going to approach retailers. And it actually wasn't until I got a commitment from Sephora that I actually left my full-time job and said, I'm going to do it. We just need to pause for a second and I need to address you right now and say, years. She worked years building a side hustle that she believed deeply wasn't a side hustle, but did not bet the farm until the makeup skincare farm came to her.

5:19And so I just feel like I want to honor the journey if you're at a place where you are side hustling and you have a deeper calling and knowing. Where did you go? What was the mindset? How are you digging deep? I'm a natural born storyteller. And so if we go back to the Nancy who's working nights and weekends, and it's not exactly happening the way that you wanted or had hoped, or it's just going too slow. Yeah. Am I overstepping here? Is that? No, not at all. Okay. I don't want to paint this story, but I'm like, I feel this in a deep way. So where were you going? What kept on driving you? What was that driving force that says, okay, not happening how fast or exactly looking how I want?

5:54Where do you go? Yeah. I mean, I think it just, again, it just goes back to that vision. Like, I really believed that what I wanted to do was possible. And, you know, I always tell people too, like if the journey is so easy and so quick, then the opportunity wouldn't be there anymore because everyone would have done it already, right? Yes. And so it's really almost like par for the course that it's not going to be easy, that you're going to face challenges, that it's going to take a little bit longer because those are all the bumps and curves that you have to navigate in order to get to that place.

6:31And that's why I always tell people that if you're going to set out to do something, make sure that you really have heart for it. Because if you don't have heart for it, it's going to be so hard to weather those storms. So good. So good. So it's like people, Kim, a lot of times people are listening to the pod, like in the car ride, picking up the kids or going to the gym, and it's empowering. And then they get to this episode, they're like, wait, wait, somebody this successful is telling me it's going to take longer and not be as easy as I hoped. Yes. So Nancy just told you, she warned you, she put it all out there.

7:04Anything past the point in this podcast is going to be, well, if you don't know, now you know. And we're going to break down more of that. So by the time you set this idea, we're in the business to talk about the business. And so what was the go-to-market strategy? How are you approaching marketing? What's your experience with marketing? What are you looking at? What are you learning? Like, is this totally new to you? Oh, yeah. I mean, it was totally new to me. So I had been, you know, working my entire career in finance. I had never worked for, you know, a L 'Oreal or an Estee Lauder. I didn't study marketing.

7:36The most that I knew about marketing was my purview from being like one of my target, you know, consumers. Okay. And, you know, really having a good sense of, you know, what it was I wanted, what was missing from the marketplace, how I'd like to discover products, how I like to be, you know, spoken to in communications, but I didn't have a formal background. And, you know, it's really interesting because when I started my business, you know, back in 2013, so over a decade ago, something was really happening that was interesting in the beauty marketing landscape. It was the rise of the beauty sampling boxes.

8:16I don't know if you remember. and all of these companies. And it was so new. So it wasn't like this proven marketing strategy. But I said, you know what, that actually makes sense. If you could actually get your products in the hands of target consumers, and you believe the formula is great, you have a high probability that they're going to convert and buy the full size product. But that's a risk. It is. So now get me into the mindset of I'm taking a calculated risk. How are you measuring that? How do you feel so good? Because there's one thing, I believe it. But then there's like, okay, well, I believe it.

8:51And I'm also like hedging my bet. Right, right. Well, it's really interesting because again, going back to who I was as a beauty consumer, I remember at the time too, this was before I started Briogeo, so much of the sampling that was taking place was actually in fragrance. And the way that I discovered my favorite fragrances was through samples that I would get. Like even, you remember in magazines when they used to have those like scratches. Are we dating ourselves? It's like, yeah, you open up the tab and you can kind of like rip it out. And I would even get the paper and be like, let me just put it in my wrist.

9:23Completely, right. Or you'd go to like a department store and they'd give you a sample and I'd be like, oh my gosh, this is such a great cleanser. This is going to be my new cleanser. And so I knew for myself that I, you know, converted as a consumer with that marketing tactic. It just made sense that sampling would be, you know, such a major opportunity for my brand. And so that's why I encourage people, because I often get the question too. It's like, Nancy, I'm going into this space. I know nothing about it. Like, is this silly that I'm doing it? No, it's not silly. Sometimes you just have to trust your gut and your own perspective as a consumer that will help you to unlock that knowledge that perhaps you didn't know you had.

10:06Okay, but let's get in the weeds. You have an idea and you believe that the sampling boxes would be a good marketing play because that was you are essentially your target demographic. Yeah. Cool. How do you get in boxes? Like, what's that first step of that's a good idea. I don't know how to connect there. What did you do? Yeah, totally. So I just, you know, I always tell people like you just always have to ask. Like, I remember someone sent me like a total like random sort of cold email and what they had to say was really interesting. So I responded and And I remember he was like, I'm so glad that I just, you know, shot my shot.

10:41And I tell people that sometimes you just have to shoot your shot. Send an email, DM somebody, say, hey, are you looking for new brands for your sampling boxes? And like I found that like at least 75 % of the time when I'm aligning with something that I think is a good fit, you know, that's where the magic happens. And it was really just that outreach, taking that next step. Okay, so I'm going to ask it in a really simple way. like I'm five, you just found out contact information for these sampling box companies. And you're like, okay, I have the information. I'm going to shoot my shot. And a lot of them said yes.

11:16Totally. Yeah. And then over time, the sampling boxes started reaching out to me because then they saw, oh, Briogeo was in this box. That seems like such a cool brand. We want that brand. But it all has to start somewhere. And the other thing I would say too is don't be afraid to tell people what you're up to and what you need. Because for me, so much of being able to meet those contacts was from telling someone, hey, I'm starting a hair care product line. Oh my gosh, my friend's starting a deodorant line and she just got a really great contract manufacturer. Oh my gosh, I'm looking for a contract manufacturer.

11:54Let me put you in touch. So sometimes just being vocal about what it is you're doing and what you need, you'd be surprised by how other people can help to unlock opportunities for you. Oh, I love this. Okay, so we go back and how are you measuring the efficacy of, okay, I put a sample in a box and it's resulting in sales because like there's not like we're not pixeling that product. So yeah, so there's different ways. Sometimes you can use a promo code, which is really helpful because if someone's like, oh, I tried this product. It's awesome. But I don't know. I'm not familiar with the brand. And sometimes if you give them a code, they feel like, okay, I'm getting a discount.

12:33I might as well use that and actually try it. But it's also a great way to be able to track conversion. And if you're not using a code, the other way you can track conversion is just looking at your month-over-month sales lift to the business. So on average, for the past six months, you've been selling 100 bottles of shampoo. and then after you do that sampling campaign, you're now selling 300 bottles of shampoo. Chances are, okay, what did you do differently? You did that sampling campaign, so it tripled your sell-through. Okay, so let's bring in this idea of layering. So your marketing, when you started this business 10, a little change ago, the marketing landscape was different in regards to social.

13:20When did you start making a social play? How did it impact? What did you differently? If you look back at that, what would you tell other entrepreneurs as they enter in that transition if they started off with physical type marketing to digital? Yeah, I mean, now it's just, you know, it's table stakes. I mean, you have to be on social media when you're launching a brand. I firmly, firmly believe that. You know, that's where so much discovery is happening. That's how you can really sort of control the articulation of your brand. Because if you don't tell your brand story, someone else is going to tell it or interpret it in a way that you don't intend.

13:57So I think it's, you know, so powerful for so many different reasons. But when I launched my brand, you know, over a decade ago, social media wasn't as important of a platform as it is now. And so I was kind of part of that transition of being, you know, off social to social and really saw the value that came from having a social presence, not only that, but also the value of influencer marketing. And that's where influencers play is on social. So being part of that conversation was hugely important. And so you started aligning your influencers at what point? Like, where are we at in the journey?

14:37So you started in 2013? Yes. And so you do like the physical sampling and then you understand that social, that transition, You're part of like an early adopter, which is really cool. And then how long after that gestation period? So that's like 2016 at this point. So that was actually to around the time of the rise of the YouTube beauty influencer. Yes. So all of these things were kind of happening at the same time. It was like the rise of the beauty sampling boxes. It was the rise of, you know, the YouTube beauty influencer and then the rise of the Instagram influencer and then the rise of the TikTok influencer.

15:12So it's constantly evolving and changing, and that's why you have to be so dynamic. And it's also why if you're going into an industry where you don't have experience, well, you know what? A lot of people in those same industries don't have the experience either because it's all happening in real time. Everyone's learning together. I like that perspective shift. So do you, again, reach out to influencers and say, I'm going to shoot my shot? Yeah, but I think, you know, with influencers, it's really important for the messaging to be authentic and organic. And so we typically, you know, partner with influencers who had already organically been talking about our brand that already loved Briogeo.

15:56I want to pause. I want to pause here for a second. We just dropped a podcast with Michelle, founder of Gorgie. And what did she say? that exact thing that when it comes to influencers, they are really working with influencers who are organically talking about the product so that when sponsored posts come along, they're in total alignment and they feel authentic to the brand. So we have two very successful entrepreneurs saying the same thing. So I just want to make sure that we're like all tracking here that follow their lead because they've discovered organic to paid is very synergistic. I just wanted to pause and say that because that was really good.

16:32Thank you. It's huge. And, you know, we've tested, we always test and learn where we've done some partnerships where Briogeo was sort of their first experience with Briogeo. And a lot of times it worked great. But then sometimes you can tell that, you know, they just hadn't been using the product long enough and maybe it felt like a rushed effort. And when that happens, you don't have that same, you know, just sort of like authentic messaging and energy that you get from that partnership. So I just think it's really important. I think just fundamentally, when you're doing business, trying to root yourself in real authentic relationships, that even comes down to retailers too, right?

17:15Like, not every brand is right for every retailer. and if you try to force yourself into a certain retailer that's not the right fit just because you know you think it's going to bring extra revenue oftentimes that partnership just may not work out okay on the note of partnerships if we get into the business of the business you are doing the nights and weekends and you're doing your own formulations and you're doing it as homage but purposefully towards the relationship you had with your mom and that experience and building something you didn't have in the market. Great. So then what actually happens for funding?

17:50What does that journey look like for you? And then what was your mindset around, are you bootstrapping it? Are you getting outside investors? Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah. So, you know, I had been working in finance for almost a decade prior to going out and running Briogeo full time. And so I ended up actually bootstrapping the company for the first six years. And for those who don't know what bootstrapping is, it means using your own finances, whether that's your savings, credit cards, microloans, like the whole gamut. But you're basically self-funding the business. And I got the business to a pretty great place over six years.

18:28But then it came to a point when we were just scaling so quickly. I had all of my personal finance on the line, which is a pretty scary situation. Can we pause there for a second? take us into your mind then right so six years in and when did Sephora come to you when did you in that six years when yeah within the first year yeah because that was one of the reasons why I left my job so great so then this is like 2014 2015 2014 that Sephora okay yeah and so then from 2014 to what, 2016, 2017, you're entirely bootstrapped. So you're putting your own money back into this. For 2019. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

19:13And so one of the things I just want to point out for the listener, and thank you for clarifying being bootstrapped and using your own money, is it's all a risk. Like this is all entirely you. However, the longer that you can hold out without getting funding, the less funding you have to get, the less equity you have to give up. And I just wanted to have that as a point of clarity. So you get this to this place and you realize we've scaled so fast. And most people would say, well, if you're scaling so fast, why are you getting outside investment? Number one. And then number two, where is your head at at this time?

19:42Like, what are you thinking? What are you feeling? What's the mindset shifts you have to make to go from being bootstrapped? You respond to nobody who all of a sudden giving up a piece of the company where you're going to have to be responding and taking into consideration other people's opinions about your approach. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, like I said, with bootstrapping, you know, you're putting all of your financial risk on the line. And, you know, it's a great way to get from A to B. But there comes a point where, for some people, the business is scaling so rapidly that you know that you're going to need, you know, additional funding to really take advantage of all the opportunities that are ahead.

20:19But then you also have to weigh sort of your own risk profile. Like if something were to happen and the business were to dissolve, can you stomach the fact that you're going to lose everything? And so those were the things that I was thinking at the time when I was deciding to bring on an investor. and what you said is totally right because when you go from bootstrapping and being sort of the sole decision maker of your company to bringing on an investor, that's a partnership. And I always tell people, you have to think of it as a marriage. It can't just be about the money, but it has to be about the values alignment.

20:57You have to be very, very clear on where it is you wanna take the business, what's important to you in terms of your role in the company. all of that stuff. Because if you're not aligned, I think that becomes the basis for when sometimes people have challenging relationships with their investors. Because the truth is, it shouldn't be challenging. It really, really shouldn't be. And investors know that things aren't always going to go smoothly. They're not always going to go perfectly. But hey, if we're marching to that aligned vision that we talked about, let's weather this together. And so I'm just really grateful that I found such an amazing investment team where we did have that alignment.

21:39And again, you know, oh my goodness, it was a year after I took my investment that COVID hit. You know, that was a really, really tough time. And that's how you really, too, you know, understand the value of a partnership is when you go through a tough moment like that. It's about how do we weather this together? And at the time during COVID, are you DTC or are you in addition to being featured in retailers? Yes. Okay. So did you see DTC like spike during that time? Yeah. Because with all the stores being closed, you know, everyone really shifted their, their commerce to digital. Good for you.

22:14Okay. And also during that time, I don't know, maybe you could speak into this. What I saw purely as a consumer and not in that industry is a lot of people started doing a lot more skin and hair and makeup, like tutorials, routines. Did you see, how did sales perform during that time? Yeah, so we were definitely, you know, one of the beneficiaries of, you know, some of the dynamic during COVID and that, you know, the salons were closed, many of them were closed. And so, you know, people were at home googling, you know, how do I treat my hair? How do I, you know, my, I'm having scalp issues. A lot of people actually had scalp issues during COVID.

22:53And there's a myriad of reasons, you know, stress, you know, being inside, not getting enough vitamin D, all of those things. And so there was just a lot of organic search for products that Briogeo has. And that was a huge discovery moment for the brand. So the time duration from bringing on investors to selling was how many years? Actually three years. Yeah. So it was a three-year period. Yeah. Good for you. Yeah. So now that we have the understanding, the business of the business, what was happening, the genesis of it, the transitions, bringing on investors to selling it, you got to a point, and this is the conversation where I feel like we're at an apex and something I truly care about, is you're saying that you're on a mission to help entrepreneurs get from zero to one.

23:42Did I? Yeah. Right. Totally. Totally. So that's very specific. And that's also the hardest part. I I see a lot of people speaking to, now that you have your investors, we're talking about scaling strategies, the zero to one. Why are you so passionate? What would you tell these people? What is the most important thing? And it's zero to one entrepreneurs or zero to one in the product space? Yeah, really in the product space, because that's where I feel like I have the most expertise and that's where I can help really add value. And I mentor a lot of different founders. And And I will say most of the questions that come my way are where people need the most help.

24:20It's that zero to one phase. It's before people have really built their network, their communities. They don't have people that they can just call up and get quick answers from. and it's also the point in which I think if people knew more about what it takes and the things that need to be considered they just have an opportunity to be a lot smarter about how they get started and when they get started like a lot of times people will take the leap and they're like oh my gosh I had no idea that I was going to need to get a 3PL like I'm just not set up to do that right now or whatever. And so... And what's a 3PL?

25:00It's a third-party logistics company. So someone who handles your freight and things like that. And so actually last Women's History Month, I launched a content site on nancytwine.com that's focused on putting out articles around a lot of these common topics that zero-to-one entrepreneurs are experiencing. And then most recently, I launched my podcast, Maker's Mindset, to bring on other female entrepreneurs who have navigated the same thing so that they could bring their unique perspective to the table. And that's been just such a great way to really help people too to see themselves in other people because the more that you listen to other people's journeys, the more that you can take in the nuts and bolts of how they got from zero to one.