Business Questions Answered: Roundtable Discussion with Brilliant and Successful Women

24:01But your people who are going to naturally mentor you also don't want to feel like it's transactional. That's why I hate it. I not hate it. That's why I want to steer your person away from using that ROI concept, you know, or from even the idea of, well, there's nobody as important in my network as Rockefeller. So what are we really doing here? I want to pay somebody to. Nobody wants to feel like they're in a transactional relationship. They want to feel good about what they're doing for you, and you want to feel good for having received it. So I think you just kind of flipped that concept a little bit.

24:34Can I just say the most important people on my network are the cheerleaders, my friends, like you, right? Yes, we're all at business, but I have folks who, and this is my kitchen cabinet partly, but it's like my lifelong friends who, you know, there's nothing other than being my friend. That relationship delivers, and I know we don't want to use the term ROI, but it delivers every day because they tell me, hey, Jocelyn, you should be thinking about this, or you're overreacting here, or why don't you go take a vacation? Those are the things that really matter. And when we have those people in our lives, they are mentoring us along the way.

25:10They're giving us what was made in a different way. Yeah. What's that phrase that you are the sum of the top five people you hang out with? That's exactly right. Surround yourself by. Yes. Look at those. Look at that list. And I just adding to that, we were talking before we started taping about one of the things that we found interesting is that all four of us here didn't start with the leg up. None of us came from here is our family money, here I leave schools, any of that. We all figured out at the beginning, I think the common thing was do good and it comes back. Like it's what you're saying about not being transactional.

25:54It's about what you're saying about the relationship itself. It's like put yourself in rooms and be a good person. Help other people and then ask for help back. Have the courage to do it. And that's what it really takes to get started. I think it's like a perfect segue. I have another question if you guys would allow. Oh, of course. The Annie Method, she asked, how do you manage closer relationships seeking more from you as your success grew? That's a great question. That's an excellent question. You know, I, the people who are meant to be in your orbit, so you can talk about the folks that you mentor or sponsor, and I have a lot.

26:31You know, I think people want to see you succeed so they understand the ebbs and flows, right? They understand that at certain moments, as long as I'm authentic and I show up authentically for people, sometimes that doesn't mean I'm consistent. It doesn't mean you're going to reach me at all times of day and night. But you know that I'm there for you when you need me. And so I think the folks who, the way that those relationships work best is that you understand I'm human too. Like you, again, not fully formed, not perfect. I make mistakes and fail every single day. But that's part of the journey, right?

27:08I want, when I think of the folks who are my mentors and sponsors, they fail. Sometimes I can't reach them. You know, they have human experiences like the rest of us. And that is what attracts me to them more because I was like, you know what I've gone through. That's how you listen to them because you're in a bad, bad spot. And they're like, let me tell you what happened when I was in this awful spot. Yeah, totally. Okay. But what I think she's, I mean, I'm sorry. I don't want to, I don't want to, I feel like though, because what I felt like she was asking, and maybe I'm not interpreting right, but it's how do you manage close relationships seeking more from you as your success grew?

27:42Oh, Oh, yeah. But I was saying, but this, can I add? Yeah, yeah, no, please. As my success grows, the expectation is that it's more time and more people, right? And so what I'm saying is for the more time, more people, like the expectations, I'll give an example. I have a mentee and we used to meet on a pretty regular clip, right? And so as my time gets less and less, I don't know if this is a success thing, I can't even talk. As my time gets less and less, I have had to manage that mentorship and mentoring relationship to say, I'm still here for you. And that was my point. Like, it changes too.

28:18The relationship changes too. But the folks who are with you, they don't mind that. They're like, they're clapping for your success. Got it. Right? And they understand because that's something they may want to do. And they see you as a person. They don't see you as a, you know, this is a person over here. And, you know, not really a person, but this, you know, ideal. I say no a lot. Yeah, I say no a lot too. And I also convert, I do convert some relationships that shouldn't be mentor-mentee or sponsorship relationships that actually should be advisory relationships, consulting relationships. I'll convert to, we can still have these conversations, but I'm giving you, this isn't just I'm fostering along your career.

28:59I'm helping your business. Okay, Chelsea, can you please, please, please define the two? Can you please, please define the two and then educate people about the difference? It's like the Supreme Court said about porn. You know it when you see it. Oh, gosh. You're a one-liner. They really did say that. They did. They did. They really did. I use that line now for product marketing.

29:26You know, but you know when you're starting, again, when it starts to feel transactional, where they're coming back to the well and you're like, am I running your marketing department? Am I teaching you how to run your HR? You know, you know, when it's less about I'm helping you, you know, leapfrog to the next part of your career too. I'm just telling you how to run your division now, you know, or I'm just helping. And so you can feel when that starts to happen and I'll let them get, you know, one or two, one or two, you know, go comebacks to the well or whatever, you know, but then I'm just sort of like, gosh, you know what, this actually is what, how I help people in my consulting.

30:01I have an advisory business, a consulting business. This is actually how I help people on the other side of the house. And I really do feel like you'd benefit if a lot more, if we had a much more formal relationship, you know? And so why don't we convert this? Here's my monthly retainer. I don't do hourly, you know? And here's my monthly retainer and let me know. And then when you make people put their money where their mouth is, they straighten up and fly right pretty easily, right? They either do convert to consulting and now you're just on a nice retainer and hey, you generated some business for yourself or they get back to just the pure career stuff, which I'm happy to talk about all the live long day, you know?

30:39I'm with you. And I think that it's how you say no, right? Because what you were saying was when you are now being, taking advantage and you are making the relationship as a mentee more transactional, I'm okay saying, okay, you want to be transactional. If I'm making you money, then don't take advantage and pay me for it. I also think if it's not the relationship that you have that's asking for more but you're just getting too many requests from people to serve them, saying no, not me is really helpful. It's like being able to say, you know what, I don't have the bandwidth for this right now, but let me connect you with someone who I think could really help.

31:15So you're giving but you're not committing and they get what they need. And there's something really wonderful and powerful about the no, not me. Yeah. Can I just add, you're seeing some magic here with these two. So I lead with heart. And you see, part of my challenge is, I may never convert some of my folks. Because I'm like, I can't possibly. But wait, hold on. Do we understand what's happening here? They're mentoring you. I know. They do it all the time. They do it all the time. Oh, my goodness. I love it. They're so good. But I'm always the, well, yes, I will help you and I'll be. But this is why this is such a great question.

31:50And you're seeing the mentoring. Let me tell you, I have a lot more time. I might be, my bandwidth might be totally taken up for these mentoring conversations, but I have all the time in the world if you want to pay me. Yeah. Okay. And that's how you should think about it. Your schedule will free up dramatically if you're getting, if it's a$20 ,000 a month retainer on something. I love it. I love it. I love it. I do want to make it, just bring it home on the fact that I think that there is a difference between how we react when that question sort of set us up for taking too much as you get better in your career and that i think that what you've seen is how we all react when it starts to become transactional to repeat and gp what uh joss was saying is if someone else a mentee makes something more transactional and is wanting more i back off really quickly because that's not the relationship I'm signing up for.

32:46Okay. Switching gears. I.Acri said, when is the right time for me to launch my product? I love that question. Oh, well, we got a lot of answers to that. Who's going first? Why don't you take that one? Yeah. I mean, first of all. Hold on, you guys. You guys just understand what just happened. It's like, hold my beer. Hold my beer. Hold my beer. Hold my beer. Yes. Is there a need for your product? And you don't have to be, unique. There could be 8 million other products just like this one, but is there still available TAM? Right. So is there still... Total addressable market. Yeah. Total, thank you.

33:23Total addressable market. Thank you. You'll put it up on the screen. But is there still, are there still people available out there and a large enough one that it makes sense from a monetary perspective that actually want this product? Again, yours doesn't have to be the best, doesn't have to be perfect. Doesn't have to be the filling in a niche that's never been filled before. None of that. That's all very daunting. So that too, do you have a way to make this product that is scalable and doesn't keep you in debt for the next five years? Because I don't like this whole, we're not profitable for five, 10 years.

33:58Like, yeah, like, are you going to start making money off this thing pretty quick? And is it scalable? So you're not doing it in your garage forever. Do you see a supply chain out there or a way to make this thing? Right. Three, do you understand? And then I'll shut up. Okay. No, it's good. This is excellent. And then, you know, three, and there's obviously 8 million other things, but three, do you or do you have somebody who understands putting aside brand marketing? Because as the founder, I would assume you know how to do brand marketing for days because it's your own thing and it's your baby.

34:33Do you have somebody who understands marketing technologies? Period. End of story. Because if you are not state of the art on whatever today's best marketing technologies are, you're sunk. I don't care how amazing it is. Okay, go. Okay, so I go the opposite route. I love that. Okay. I'm like, Jaws is ready to go and I just jumped in. No, go, go, go. I think it's a big old, it depends on your business. so if you are launching a product that um is a physical product that you it's going to take you you're going to have inventory it's going to take you six months to change something on it when you find out what people love and hate get a little more in market get some real learnings first before you go if you are doing a services business or if you are doing some tech businesses then find a way to launch yesterday.

35:25And that might not be a full launch. It might be I'm putting up a page that asks you to enter your credit card to buy this and then I give you a message that I don't have a product that put you on the wait list. Like find ways before you are going all in financially to really support what Chelsea was saying and find out if what you have is right. How do you talk about what you have? And the only real way you do that is by getting yourself out there. And so do it smart, do it carefully. make sure that you're not promising something that you can't deliver on. Or if you do promise something that they know it's future and you create a magical, wonderful cult from the shared problem, and they'll give you that grace when you're figuring it out, but go in those situations.

36:09So it really does depend. I'm going to sheep eat everything that you guys said. I think you have to really, as you've said, do the work and make sure you know, like you can't just say everybody wants to be a founder. It's a sexy thing. and everyone wants to have a product. So you have to really know, is this product viable? What market am I talking about? What are the macroeconomics that I'm starting this business in? And is it going to work from that standpoint? So I think everything that you guys have said is absolutely true. Now, the other side of that is, I do want people as they're thinking about founding a business, we don't want to say don't do it.

36:42And failure teaches us lifelong lessons, but know what you're getting into from the beginning because you don't want to, as we talk about, generational wealth. There's a fast way to not have generational wealth is if you fail horribly and have spent all of your money because you didn't do the research. So I think there are lots of layers there. Okay. So I'm going to repeat because I take notes. This is how I learn. If you have a question, when is it ready to launch my offer? Chelsea, focus on the total addressable market, figure out the path to profitability. This is not going to be, I'm going to be in debt for five, 10 years.

37:17There's no glory. There's no glory in that. And Then understand the latest marketing technologies. If not you, then somebody on your team. Susan says, it depends. If you are doing a product, it's okay to go a little slower. If you're doing a service, move as fast as possible. But the goal is always, can you deliver on the promise? And Jocelyn had said, number one, do the work. You have to understand what you're getting into, understand if it's viable in the macro considerations. And then she had said, lastly, know what you're getting into. And that's where I have a question. I never knew what I was getting into.

37:47Like, come on, you guys. It's like, did you guys ever know what you were? I mean, isn't it like a big thing? Like, how do you know? Like, what now? No, somebody's listening and be like, what do I need to know? I'm going to challenge you. Okay. I think you knew what you were getting into. There's an evil empire in you. Like there was in like Jeff Bezos. It wasn't like, I'm going to sell the most books on the internet ever. No. He was like, I'm going to world domination. I'm going to sell everything everywhere all the time. Only Alibaba is going to challenge me and not even them. Right. I think every successful entrepreneur like you, there's something where you might not be able to predict the future, but you know what your empire is going to be.

38:25You're thinking world domination always, right? I mean, I think so. I don't think you're ever thinking small. Okay, but I hear it as a difference. And I mean, let me hear the nuances. It's know what you're getting into and then know what it is you want or knowing the vision. Okay, getting into, I think, would, and then I'll shut up. Sorry. No, no. But I think there's no – Chelsea, have you met you? If you knew what you were getting into, you'd never do anything because the hard work, the sleepless nights, the missing the meals, the missing everything and all the time and all at once. So knowing what you're getting into, don't even put that in the back of your brain and don't think about it again because that'll be paralysis.

39:04So I'm going to – I think there is a – here's what I want to say about when you started thinking about getting into the various markets, photography. content, SaaS, you did have to know something about the market. You didn't just say, well, and maybe you did, but I believe that you've done, you did know. And if you're offering a product, you have to know something about the market. The distinction, I think, in terms of, you know, you're just going to jump out there and you don't have to know everything. I think that's a different level. I think it's on a different plane and I don't know exactly how to articulate it.

39:39So I'll just give an example. For me, I said, my career has been serendipitous. I've never planned this is what I'm going to do ever. Right. But in politics, I knew a little bit about politics. I knew the basics of politics. I had done the work. Did I know how my career was going to go? Did I plan any of that out? Absolutely not. And I went like, I just jumped right into it. I think the difference is you have to know a little bit about the market that you're getting into. And that's what I mean. But that does not order your steps. You can just like, I'd jump off a cliff like in the political realm having no parachute, but I knew I would land.

40:12Got it. And there is a difference too, a slight difference of knowing what you're getting into in a smart, know your market, know your customer, the things you're saying. Yes. And knowing what I'm getting into as the emotional journey, I'm about ready to go through hell. And there it is, you're ahead of your skis, you're building a business. You can't define that. You can't listen to that. You can't, people have, I'm told, go through horrible childbirth and then have another baby because they don't remember that pain, but the pain is real, right? The pain and building is real. And I think that you can't really know until you know how bad and how hard and how lonely it's going to be at moments.

40:49But you also don't know how great, how much you're going to learn, how much you're going to grow, the people you're going to meet in the wrong way, and the human become because of it. You don't know that, but you will experience both. so before I went to law school, I read a book called 1L by Scott Turow. Oh, yeah. And I mean, this is like, this is the book that you read before you go to law school. And he literally on page one is saying, don't go to law school. Yeah. Like if you're going for all of these reasons, don't go. And then he gets into explicit details telling you the horror stories.

41:21Yeah. And so. And they're all true. And they're all true. All of them. He's not wrong. I experienced them all. The reason why that book is still in print and still doing extraordinarily well is because it spits the truth. So if somebody had told you all the painstaking experiences, would you have even listened? No, I mean, you know what your billable hours are, your minimum is when you go to a big law firm like I started out with, you know? But in business, if you wrote the 1L for business owners, do you think that anybody would even adhere to your advice? What do you mean? So like if I, oh, yeah, like don't start a business if.

41:58If you're an entrepreneur, if you're a small business founder, you have something in you that is a burning compulsion to make that product, to develop that service, to provide whatever it is, to build this business around this. If you don't, you shouldn't be doing it at all. Like Scott Terrow said about law school. Okay. If you don't have that, you shouldn't be doing that. Can you say that again, a little bit slower? If you don't have what? If you're not compelled to do this thing, notwithstanding what everyone's telling you about, you know, the hours, the things you're going to miss, the meals you're going to miss, the relationships that you might burn a bridge in or whatever, you know, the debt, the debt, whatever it is, the sleepless nights, the stress, the anxiety, difference between the two, of course, is stressing about something that exists already.

42:42Anxiety is worrying about something that has not yet come to pass, you know, and you have both when you're an entrepreneur. If any of that deters you and you don't have a compulsion to move forward with your thing, then you shouldn't be doing that thing. I'm going to take a different view because I do think some of life has to just be the journey, whether or not you have a compulsion or not. There are things that I would tell you I've done, but I haven't been completely... I'm like, oh, the NFL was an example. I didn't want to go, had work-life balance, but it turned out to be amazing. I didn't have a compulsion around it.

43:19I know that's slightly different yeah that was my career at that point in time yeah and I think when you you talked about American Apparel right that wasn't completely uh like I am so committed to doing this and this this was my path this is what I wanted to do so I think there is some it's a it's both and yeah right it's the intersection of what you're saying because it is fine I think that it's some people have a compulsions some people won't yeah it's what you both are saying which i man i believe is find a purpose bigger than yourself in that business in that one or you won't get up the 75th time someone kicks you with that that's right you had you but the same thing that i am right you want to success yes that's right you want to be successful that's right you want to be taken seriously in your lane whatever that is absolutely so that's it right and this person that wrote in this question is compelled by their, they want to release this product, or I can't even remember what was it.

44:15Which question this was. And I do think it, I think there is a difference between being compelled and purpose. Yeah, define what compel is. Yeah, I think a purpose. So like I look at, when you asked that question, the first thing that went through my mind is, I would do the businesses I've done, I'd make the choices because I would never want to give back learnings, but maybe I wouldn't do hardware ever again. Maybe I would going back, I wouldn't have done hardware. In retrospect. So what went through my brain while I was processing real quick was hardware is hard. They say that because it takes you 18 months to change anything because you are so dependent on other people's errors.

44:54When we had Waggett, the best supplier in the world put the wrong product GPS module in 80 % of our units. And we couldn't even figure out why. So for five months, I had to wake up not knowing what the problem was. Tell me your problem. I'll go solve it. I nearly lost my mind. in that process. And then thank gosh, we had a community that was a cult and gave us grace because it took another year and a half to get the product out and millions of dollars because it's so capital intensive to fix that. And even if someone else's fault, you have to wait for the parts, you have to do all that, right?

45:24So it's like, there's something so hard about it. And I was sitting there going, I don't think I would. But then I was like, do you know what? If I go back in the time machine and wouldn't have done that, I would have lost the opportunity to save animals lives period and there are animals that would not have had the life as long as they could have as healthy as they could have been and i wasn't willing to give that up i think it's a purpose i think it's yeah not a compulsion but a purpose yeah nobody could have told you anything when you went into that business they would have they could have said to you you're gonna have all these issues and you're gonna say i'm equipped i can handle this i can solve those problems as they come down the pike in retrospect now you're like exhausting but you know but nobody could have told you nothing.

46:05You stormed through walls. Yeah, that's true. Okay. Speaking of storming through walls. You're right. Yeah. And a nutritious, a.nutritious.notebook asked, working on weekends when you are starting a business, how do you balance? Do you? Yes or no? There's no balance. There's no balance. You just got to, listen, there's a friend of mine in law school read a piece about like, how do you stop sleeping? Like, how can you like cut sleep out of your day or whatever. Obviously impossible, but still, that's the mentality. I mean, you just have to learn how to get up. You just go dark to dark. And you put stuff around the margins that normally would fit into a person's actual day, and you just put it in the margins.

46:43And people have to learn to understand that about you because you're an entrepreneur and you're starting a business. Are you okay giving me a personal example? Yeah. I mean, the year I made partner in my law firm, that's just one example. I mean, I built 28 ,056 hours that year. Built. So that's not all the admin stuff that had to go around it. And that's, I had two kids already and I was divorced. So like I moved my parents into my house and I set up, I had two offices in my house, my actual office and my dining room table, because I had two different piles of things that I was accomplishing, you know, and I just was like around, I mean, I just, you just, my kids were there, but they would just be in the other room and they might touch base with me once in a while, but mostly, you know, I mean, when I was at American Apparel, I think I said this in our talk earlier, there was a couch in my office.

47:30And for the first several weeks on that job, I slept on that couch and I would just go downstairs to our store, which was in our big sewing headquarters. And I would just buy new clothes that day to wear, which wasn't super appropriate, but whatever it was. I mean, it was like leggings and a bodysuit, but like, yeah, but you know, I mean, I just, when you are wrapped up on something, that is the thing you need to be wrapped up on. And yes, there are things, obviously, if your kid is sick, or if you have to go to a parent-teacher conference, you've got to figure out a way to fit those things in.

47:59But you work 80, 90 % of the time throughout your whole life. I mean, that is, you know, if you're not going to succeed in that, what are we doing here? You know? I have two things to add. I love what you're saying, because what you're saying is what I've heard, Jasmine, you say on your podcast, which is before you start something, define the price you're willing to pay for it, because it's going to require sacrifice of something. And And you're sitting here, Chelsea, giving a really great example of what you've shared with your audience in the past, which is define that price up front. And then I will add that I think the balance thing is ridiculous because if you really peel back, what does balance mean?

48:37It means you're 24-7, every second of the minute, working really hard to keep the pressure really equal across everything. And you're working so hard at it. And that is going to give. And it's not what we should be striving for. There's this idea of integration. of defining, as you put it, what price you're willing to pay. And then how do you integrate your life in a way that sometimes you're going to be all in on work. Sometimes you're all going to be all in on kids. Sometimes you're all going to be on yourself. Yeah. That was a timeline along your whole life. Yeah. Because later on, I was able to pay all kinds.

49:08So during COVID, I moved my daughter and her boyfriend into the house so they could be part of the bubble. And then my ex was there. And then my son was living there. And we had the cat. And we were all just roly-poly around the house. And I just was like the most delightful thing in the world. And I was actually why I decided not until spark landed on my lap. I decided not, we didn't even go into this. I decided not to take a third CEO gig because I was like, I want to see my kids through up and out of high school into college. Cause that's a really critical period, you know? And so then I had, you know, I was sitting on some boards.

49:40I was definitely not working full time, not, you know, on the weekends or anything. I'm not management. I'm, you know, head in, fingers out, you know, that's what they say about board. and so I captured what I thought was even a more critical period of time in my kids lives you know getting them prepared and into the schools that they desperately wanted to go to and then getting them packed and then moving them in and reconnecting with my ex-husband their dad to do that as a family unit and I experienced all of that you know it was all that hard work at the beginning allowed me to completely swing the pendulum to use your word and be balanced later on in the timeline, you know?

50:18Totally. Yeah. And as I've said, I don't believe in work-life balance for all the reasons that you guys have talked about. You have to define balance for your own life and career. And, you know, it changes as time goes on. So, yeah. So speaking of the swinging of the pendulum, we've covered a lot of topics, but just before the camera started rolling, Susan, you reminded, I'm not going to say us, at least not yet. And I'm working toward it, but you said why we do what it is we do. And there was a founder who had sent you a message and we don't have to get into the message unless you think it's appropriate if we leave people out or leave like any sort of identities.

50:49But there was this thing. What is the overall theme of why you do it? Yeah. So right before we started, I won't give details outside of Sam. Your text to me made me say, hey guys, pause. This is why we do what we do, which was you took some advice that you had to do on the people side. And you had a hard discussion that ended up firing someone and you know what's better for the whole machine and you did it. And I am so proud of you and being able to watch you grow and be able to do that hard thing because I know how big your heart is, but do it for the good of the system. And to know that was incredible to watch.

51:29And it was the example of why the four of us do what we do because we really can see the impact and the help that we make. Chelsea, why do you do what you do? Well, anything I do ever at this point is for the benefit of my family if you really want to get down to the fundamentals. I know that's not the answer you were looking for. No, I wasn't looking for an answer. I'll give you the business reason. No, no. I was looking for the truest thing because I think that what comes up as truth is inspiring and empowering to other people. It is okay. I do what I do for my family. I do. I really do. I was raised by these incredible parents who did everything.

52:05They maximized the hell out of very little. It was like that book, Stone Soup, that we read to our kids where, you know, yeah, I don't have to get into it. Look it up. Stone soup. Ding. But, you know, and that came from generations of generations of generations of people before them that had taught them how to create a net, whether it's economic or love or whatever it is for the next generation coming. And it's a small family, but it's a strong family. It's strong DNA that It comes from both sides. And so I just feel like it's my obligation, and I love this obligation, to hand that tradition down to my kids and to make them feel like they've got a net.

52:47So everything I do at this point, the examples that I set, my core values, money that I make, the house I provide is for my family. And if I may, from an outsider's perspective, when you say is to create a net, for people who are listening, you're helping them build their own net too. Yeah, and I'm trying to teach them how to fish instead of giving them the fish. Yes and amen. Jocelyn, why do you do what you do? It's very simple, just to leave the world better than I found it. And, you know, highlight, underscore, bold. Yes. Really, people have poured into me, so it is incumbent upon me to do the same.

53:27And I don't have kids, but I have nieces and nephews. And they will inherit a very different world than I inherited and was born into. And so I feel like when we think about generational mentorship or generational sponsorship, we have to be the ones. We have to be the change we want to see. Beautiful. Jasmine, why do you do what you do? I do what I do to give more than I do. If I can give 51 % to the 49 % that I have taken or have been generously given, I will know that I did the thing that I set out to do. So thank you. Thank you for asking. Ladies and gentlemen, watching and listening the Jasmine Starr Show, we've always maintained it's just one piece of action.

54:12And so today we're going to up-level it because we've never had three guests on the show. So we're going to ask for two things. We're going to ask for two things, two pieces of action. Number one, what table can you add a chair to and invite a person to? There is somebody who wants to sit at your table, even if you think you're sitting at the cafeteria table that all the nerds and like the goths sit at, somebody wants to sit there. Add a chair to that table. I'm a nerd. And number two, can you ask somebody for something as uncomfortable as it may make you feel? Those are the two action items because the women seated at this table have done those things tenfold.

54:49And they've set a proof and a framework that they have been told no more than they have been told yes. And they have opened doors for other people who have expressed appreciation and expressed ingratitude. And they continue to do that. So they have proven that they are better on the other side of it. And we all hope that that is the same for you. Thank you. And thank you for watching and listening to the Jasmine Star Show. It is an honor and a privilege.