Creating Brand Loyalty, Social Media Virality, and User-Generated Content with Michelle Cordeiro Grant

26:03Lively was on Instagram. Gorgie's on TikTok. Lively went viral on email in 2016. Where is Gorgie going to go viral? Interesting. And then I realized, I'm like, it's in the industry. It's actually not on social media. And I started to realize, like, when I go to the trade shows, when I share this perspective out in the world of beverage, what happens there? And then that gets to the customer. Okay, I'm dying. Okay, I want to get there. I want to get there. But I want to backtrack because the audience is going to be like, how in the world did she get 133 ,000 subscribers in that amount of time? What happened there?

26:41Okay, Harry's Razor Company. Everybody knows? Yes. Okay, 2011, they did their pre-launch campaign. they got 100 ,000 emails in four weeks. And then they open sourced that code and did a whole blog post on how that happened. And I was like, oh, those guys got 100 ,000 emails. Let's do that. And so we took their open source code. Yeah. Our goal was 20 ,000. We're like, it doesn't happen twice. So we're going to get 5 ,000 a week. It's going to be awesome. And we took their open source code and we put up a splash page and did exactly what they said, which is like, join us as we launch da-da-da-da and get, you know, points towards these free rewards, X, Y, and Z.

27:20Now, the key to Lively's going viral was we did focus groups prior to understand which were the images and the taglines that people resonated towards most. And so we would put images on a coffee table, literally like 12 women in an Airbnb with wine and cheese, different cohorts, fitness girls, moms, entrepreneurs, et cetera. And they would just post it the ones they liked with words and why. And you would get trend lines. It's like, oh my gosh, it's this girl. It's the girl on the fire escape with fur over this one bralette. That was the image. What were the words? It wasn't panties or underwear.

27:53It was undies. And it was today bras and undies, tomorrow the world. They loved hearing that. Those two things on a splash page. Oh, I got the chills. I got the chills right there. It's so good. Oh my God. Wait, can I just tell you how wild that day was? Oh my God. So the girl in the fire escape with the fur, her bra. Yeah. You have your beautiful tagline. And then on the splash page, if you're following the model that Harry has done, are you saying join us because there's future perks in this day? They don't even know how much the bra costs or what it's made of or anything. They just saw that image.

28:31Today, bras and undies. Tomorrow, the world. Earn credits towards. Boom, boom, boom. Now, here's how this actually went down. Scrubbed our Gmails on a Friday. 250 emails is all I had in my Gmail at that time. And we sent it out. We went to happy hour. And that night we got like 250 people signed up. I'm a first time entrepreneur. I'm like, is this good? I think so. We're going to get 20 ,000 in four weeks. The next morning we wake up, we have a thousand. By noon, it's 5 ,000. By 4 p.m., it's like 50 ,000. How are the jumps happening? Was there a share mechanism in that? Yes. And it gets a thank you page and it's like, share it.

29:06And then they posted it. Now, this is when Instagram was pre-stories, but you had Facebook link and bio. People were taking their link and putting it in their link and bios and sharing it to their entire audience on Facebook. Now they were incentivized to do that because it would elevate them in the perk ranking or were they just add the generosity? They're like, I like this. Like I just want it. wow and we had 300 000 sessions globally like if you looked at a google map it was just blue blue blue also we were giving people free credits so now your head goes from yes they're signing up to like oh my god oh my god are we bankrupt like what do we just give away the math works the statistics hold you to like 90 hit the first and second tier but we got to like 90 000 saturday night and I called the developers.

29:54I'm like, this is hacked. There's no way. And they're literally in a bar, like in the bathroom stall. I'm like, no, Michelle, it's real. The servers crashed the next morning. Like couldn't handle it. Couldn't handle it. And we emailed all of them. We turned our customer service on. This is the month before we're launching Lively. We turned email, phone, everything on. I was like, I have to know why. And we would get emails from girls in Australia in a high school being like, my friend got an email back on the referral campaign. Why didn't eye. And I'm like, I mean, the servers crashed, but like, why do you care?

30:25We just want to be a part of this. And that is brand stickiness, that emotional cord that I was telling you about, the girl that would run to buy Calvin Klein to feel like the other people in her neighborhood. Good God. So good. Okay. So now you get that high, adrenaline, dopamine, and then you flash forward four and a half, five years later when you're like, okay, well, we have a hundred. And then you say, this isn't a problem. It's a puzzle. And so then you say, I think it's happening industry. How did you get there? So I went to Expo East in September. So after the happy hour, that same time I went to Expo East with Jason and we didn't have a lot.

31:12We had like a very early PowerPoint deck and our liquid in a glass bottle. But when you start to sit in these hotel rooms near the trade show, you notice all of those people there are in the industry. Girl, you're a hustler. Yes. And you're like, okay, I'm working on this. I'm doing this. Show them visuals. Show them the social media. Show them the likes. Show them everything. And you see the twinkle in their eyes and you're like, oh my gosh, they feel it. They see it. They see this genuine opportunity. And you just keep telling your story over and over again. And if you get that energy that we feel right now, you know that they're excited about it.

31:55I'm like, this is definitely happening. But wait, go back. Are you at the hotel adjacent to Expo East and you have your glass bottle and what do you do? Pouring it into cups? It depends on who you're sitting next to, right? Sometimes you're showing them a postcard, you're showing them an Instagram post. I mean, I'm literally pouring samples sometimes on the corner of the street in Philadelphia. I was walking around the trade show with them in my modern picnic handbag, which is a handbag that's actually a Yeti. And it was like leaking water because I had so much ice that I was like borrowing from people at the trade show to keep them cold.

32:34Oh my gosh. You do what you gotta do. Okay, after Expo East and people have twinkles in their eyes, like what are you thinking? We got Whole Foods. Whoa. Because of that? Because of, you know, being in the industry with Jason, talking to all these different people, we got the... So the first store to carry, Gorgie, is Whole Foods? Yes. Okay, that's kind of like you set the bar real high right do you see the circle of what happened the idea started in whole foods we launch in whole foods january 11th interesting 2023 the opening of one wall street in new york city we have a tent out front we have a whole floor like floor to top wall of gorgy the ceo of whole foods comes in i'm like shaking his hand in front of our cans.

33:25And now that 133 ,000 email feeling is back. Yeah, it is. There it is. Interesting. So you get into Whole Foods January 2023. At the time of this recording, we are in May 2024. And what has transpired in this? After this happens, does your marketing change? Do you still feel like it's emphasized industry marketing? Yeah, yeah. Because with Lively, it was a D2C brand. With Gorgie, I was like, okay, wait, maybe it's not D2C. Maybe it's retail first. Let's go all in on retail. How much of your current sales are comprised D2C? Or can you buy D2C? Today? Yeah. Now we're 60-40. Retail to digital. Oh, you are in the sweet spot.

34:08Good lord. But we didn't even figure out digital until June of this past summer. In my brain, I'm like, oh, it's not going to work. It's not going to work. And then I'm like, hold on. Puzzle. What? Okay. So what was the natural inclination of saying this is not going to work? Having so much experience in the DTC space? We were not seeing the, we were seeing traffic, but not the conversion rates. Okay. And I'm like, wait a minute. Why is the conversion rates on Shopify just aren't what I want? They're not like even high single digits. Okay. Right. Etc. And so I was like, okay, put that to the side.

34:37Let's focus on retail, focused on retail for six months. And then I'm like, this DTC thing's really bothering me. Let's try Amazon. Cause I start reading earnings reports and all these beverage companies doing so well. We start doing Amazon May. It's like, oh, something's happening here. I see like some sparkles happening by June. It's like, oh, this is a real business. By September, it's a six-figure business per month. Okay. So when you say we did Amazon, there's people who do Amazon and there's people who do Amazon. What approach were you following here? Like, oh, we're just testing it and then we see traction or are you saying, no, no, no, we're going to go all in.

35:11We have a strategy. We've hired somebody who specializes because Amazon's a different world. Yeah, it's definitely a complicated world. So we started with one agency that was wonderful to help us get into the space and understand the listings. And like, you really do have to have, you know, if you're not an expert in the area, a partner or a community online that you can go to. And then we switched to a different agency where I could see like a different type of style and scaling strategy. And that like really opened it up. So just like with anything in the business, if you don't love what you're seeing, tinker.

35:46Tinker with your agencies. Tinker with your partners. And then when you see that rhythm happening, now scale. Now go. Wow. Okay. So that's Amazon. Does Gorgie do from the site DTC? We have it available too. But Amazon is our lead. Got it. And it's so incredible to see us. We ship to every single state in America every month. Every month. Our repeat rates are 54 % while we're growing. I am a retention-based brand builder. Acquisition is one thing, but you can't scale acquisition until you know you have retention. And the stickiness we have, like the lifetime values. I'm such a data geek, like live for data.

36:32And when I look at that dashboard, I'm like, oh, this is it. people in Iowa will email us and be like, oh my gosh, we found you at Costco. Then we bought you on Amazon. And now we have to have you in all of our fitness studios. Brand stickiness. I'm flooded with bachelorette invites, graduation invites, wedding invites, et cetera, because they want us at their magical moments, like a beverage company. They want us at their magical moments. Now that is brand stickiness leading to like beauty, right? And clothing and apparel. Interesting. Okay, before we get there, with Gorgie on Amazon, do they have the subscription option there?

37:12Oh, how many have - Thousands. Really? Thousands. For an energy drink! I mean, this is because we've become a part of their daily life. In some cases, we've replaced their afternoon coffee. In some places, we've replaced all of their coffee. In other places, we've replaced alcohol. In other places, we've converted people who don't drink caffeine at all to now drinking caffeine, members of my team. And so they've realized I feel better when I have this brand, this drink in my life, the green tea, the L-theanine. I don't go from like boo to boo. I go to just like I had a great night's sleep. I had a great workout.

37:56I had a great time with my loved ones. Like that feeling. I feel like in my mind, I just saw like literally like something on TikTok. You know, the sound effects, the sound effects. Then we got to, I feel really great in my life. Yes, we don't need words here. We don't need words. Okay, this is fascinating to me. And let's talk about the health benefits. Like this, because to me, I'm looking at the health benefits through the lens of marketing. Yeah. Right? So you notice there's a gap in the market. And do you lead with the health benefits of the drink? Yeah. No, you know what? I've learned this from some other DTC brands that have really thrived.

38:27Number one, we're an energy drink. We're not sparkling water with caffeine. We're not anything other than an energy drink. So we want to fulfill that purpose first. Then we are with better for you ingredients. So we like to say we're an energy drink, but we taste better, look better, feel better. And so the taste, you smile. The look, you post. The feel, you make the world a better place. And so we really want to get that energy, emotion, and then the why is the benefits. The L-theanine, the Biotin, the B6, the B12, the green tea. So we talk about the stickiness and we talk about the brand association.

39:05I've always looked at content as a way for a consumer to let you know what they're valuing. What kind of content are you seeing that is not influencer paid? Yeah. What is coming up organically? What are you seeing? What are they identifying now? They literally say, oh my gosh, an energy drink I actually love. oh my gosh an energy drink that actually makes me feel better like this is the one and like they're literally promoting for us like in their car at their workout studying for finals like you can see like their their light has shifted when they've endured our product and I think it's what I kind of shared earlier which is that stereotype on a category bras was not the cool category to buy.

39:50We wanted to make it. Energy drinks have like kind of an old school stereotype against them. Not good for you. Not like the prime focus of life, et cetera. But what if it was? What if it was good for you? What if it replaced Starbucks? What if it replaced like all of these like sparkly moments that you drive to endure and make happen? That's us. We're there for you. And so when you look at the spectrum of energy drinks right now, what's your differentiating factor? What's Gorg's differentiating factors? Yeah, I would say three things. Number one, the actual content, right? So it's green tea, it's L-theanine, it's B6, it's B12, it's 150 milligrams.

40:28We're sports content certified, we're non-GMO project verified, we are gluten-free, zero sugar, five calories, sparkling. I love when people say we're chuggable because we don't give you that like feeling, right? Like someone said, oh my God, you're chuggable, you're gulpable. I'm like, what does that mean? I'm like, oh, it's a smooth drink. And it doesn't taste like a candy pop. It tastes like a natural refreshment, which is different. Okay. Now that the business has taken shape, one years old, what will be your marketing focus from now in another 12 months? Yeah. So year one was packing the snowball tight.

41:10When you're building a brand, you have to understand who you are as a person, right? So now we know who we are. We're Gorgie. We're an energy drink. Better looking, better tasting, better for you, right? We're an energy drink that makes people's lives better. Now that we know what we want to say, top of the funnel. Now we need to let the world know we exist because we know who we are. We see the repeat rates. We were number one in Air One last week. We're the second fastest growing energy drink in the natural channel. We're talking about retailers like Sprouts, et cetera. When people endure the product, they enjoy it.

41:44Now we just need to let people know we exist. How great is that? And what's your strategy for that? Well, I still believe - Outside of doing a podcast. Yes. You know, number one, meet Jasmine. Make sure she drinks the product and now - Yes, make sure that I get a subscription, obviously. Yes, and then, you know, really think about brands that we love. How are they built? They're built through in real life, digital, and content that makes people say, wait, hold on. I need to try that. In real life, digital, and content. I want to make sure that we're listening to that. We have watched and seen somebody do this so successfully.

42:23You are now repeating it, and you hedge your bets against that. And so can we break those in the next 12 months for each one of those three things? What does that look like for you? In real life. In the last 12 months, we've done over 500 different events. Have we hosted 500 events? No. Have we offered to be at events when asked or have we, you know, politely requested to have our presence there? Yes. Oh, so good. From Super Bowl to New York Fashion Week to Wimbledon to 75 college campuses to you name it, we have been there. And that's the point, right? Brands are posted when they are part of a euphoric moment.

43:02So if you're there, you're now part of the post. Okay, talk to me. Okay, real quick, because I'm dying here. Let's take Wimbledon. Yeah. So Gorgie was there. Yeah. And what did that look like? How involved were you? What did it look like? What were people posting? Yeah, well, it started because my son and daughter were ball girl and boy at a tennis exhibition. And the player saw the pre-launch. And her team reached out to me and said, she loves the concept of this. Let's learn more. And as we started to talk more, they were like, come to Wimbledon now that the product's launched. Oh, my God. Okay.

43:35And so we were there just to share it, you know, with the players pre-Wimbledon, etc. And we had like a tower with our gorgy and an ice luge. and we're in Wimbledon. It was bananas. So this is for players. For players. Got it. For them to learn about the brand and their teams, et cetera. And so we learned a lot about our brand and how we can mesh with tennis. We weren't ready to go any further yet. We were literally three months old. Three months. And so we've been doing this in all different spaces, being patient with ourselves to not over-sign to anything, but to understand the different genres as the personality of our brand evolves.

44:17And now - Hold on, I heard you say on an interview, I'm okay saying no and waiting for a better yes. Yes. I thought that was so powerful because I have been for better, for worse. I'm like, I'll say yes. Because it was just get me in the room. And I've realized over time that sometimes saying no would have been so much more powerful to wait for the better yes. So Wimbledon for you was one of those moments. Yeah. Like this is how we're showing up now. Right, right. Right. Yes. And do we want to be a part of a tennis player's life? Yes. Is it today? No, because it's going to be better later. In what context?

44:51Like, how did you define that? Because we knew, I knew in that moment, I wouldn't know what to do in that moment with this player, right? Like we're a loud, energetic brand. Wimbledon is calm, quiet. And so we need to figure out like the right dynamic. And then I started to see it. It's like, oh, it's through styling. It's through storytelling. It's in their daily lives with content and creation. but we had a lot of work to do on our own just in terms of building and creating clarity lively was the same thing we weren't ready to go into Nordstrom and Target right away we politely waited for a couple years until we were ready and it was a better yes oh so good okay so these in-person events now of the 500 how many were you directly involved with in the same capacity like Wimbledon because I think that what happens is we hear this and some people are like I don't have time for that or how what was your metric?

45:43Sometimes you're just mailing the product. No one from your team is even there and you ask for pictures. That's it. Yeah. Here's two cases of Gorgie. Here's our postcards. Here's a plastic thing to put up and like tear it, take a picture. Also sprinkle some disco balls on it because that's fun. Beautiful. Okay. So then we went from in person. Yeah. Then the next arm is going to be digital. Yes. Okay. Now this is the fun and sometimes hard part for people, right? For digital, we have a two-pronged strategy, which is we really want to be community led. And we want humans that want to be influencers, we will treat you like an influencer.

46:20And they have such powerful megaphones, such powerful megaphones. So for the people who, generally speaking, want to be an influencer and you treat them like such, are they micro-influencers or they're not even at that level yet? It could be both. They don't even need to be at that level. If they show that they're connected to creating content, and you can see that demonstrated by their grids and how they're post, let them. That's beautiful. We did that for Lively. If they had a couple hundred followers, but their grids demonstrated that they wanted to create an influencer, let them influence.

46:52Why not? What does that look like for you? And now? You see, we have over a thousand people in and out of our Geneva community, and then people constantly posting. So here's a great statistic. 60 % of our revenue on Amazon is unattributed top of the funnel organic traffic. And that is because they see you at events, they see you on micro influencers, people that you've treated like influencers, and then the actual influencers that are sharing the brand. Interesting. You got to have all. Good Lord. You got to have all. Wow. Yeah. Which is a lot of work, right? But you have to be connected to the gray.

47:33Black and white statistics aren't going to show you that this is what's driving your business. The gray is the part that you have to use gut instinct to really go after. And so when you say there's a person who's not necessarily an influencer, but you're treating them like an influencer, what does that actually mean? So we'll send them product, we'll send them pictures to post or post on their own, postcards, et cetera. You have these amazing people that'll go to the stores, create content on your behalf, post them, et cetera. Same thing for Lively. We're seeing it with Gorgie, they're growing as influencers while they're influencing for us, right?

48:07And so, you know, some of them have driven two hours for a store opening to connect and be a part of it. So I think the crux of everything in business is humans. It's how do you create human connection that is worth sharing? And that's all it is, is if you can spark that emotion for them to do something, say something, buy something, you had human emotion and human connection and human interaction that'll drive a purchase, drive an impression, drive conversion. So at the current state of this recording, how much of your content is UGC? And how much is it? Is it more repurposing on stories? Oh my gosh, so much of it is UGC.

48:49We have more content than we know what to do with. We have the opposite problem. Oh, gosh. I mean, wow. We had our Gorgie team retreat in Boca a week or two ago. We have so much content from it. I mean, check out Get Gorgie and you will see. Like our team alone is oozing with content. And then our community is oozing with content. And then we have people with millions of followers posting us that we're learning about and building connections with. And now it goes from organic to a partnership. And that's the other key. If you're going to do something that is paid, let it start organic. So good.

49:28Find that. So good. Because it's so authentic and then their followers know it. They feel it. They can see that. Wow. Lastly, content. On that note. So we were talking about the three-arm marketing approach for the next 12 months of Gorgie. We went from in-person and 500 and you don't have to be at all of them. And as long as there's disco balls, you're ready to go. You're ready. Then we went to digital and how you have created a community that is creating on your behalf and then you support it when you see it. Yes. And that fosters an amazing flywheel. For sure. And now it goes back to content.

50:01Yes. So content for me is back to my early days of fashion where it should feel editorial. Like we literally have a magazine that we made. And if you look actually on the back of our can, you'll see the creators. so you'll see people from building the brand whether they're photographers influencers creators etc they're a part of every part of the brand and now we love to say that the can is the new instagram like you have a generation that was born on digital devices my gosh so every can has different faces on it yeah oh yeah and so then these people are getting these cans with content like physical product content on their behalf.

50:45Yeah. Get out. And if you go on today, you'll see people literally just posted the last run and they're like, I'm on the can, right? I'm on the shelves. And how often are you doing a run? Sometimes every month, sometimes every quarter. Like it just depends on business, right? But I am like my, okay. So people who are not watching on YouTube, my jaw, I'm slack jawed. I'm fascinated. I'm intrigued. I'm drinking this up like soup on a spoon. Wait, the best part is when we were designing the can And I'm like, well, let's put the people on the can. And they're like, what? And I'm like, you know, like, let's just make it look like social media.

51:18Why not? They verified the ingredients. Let's verify them on the can. And I drew it on a piece of paper and gave it to them. And they're like, okay. Yeah. Okay, Michelle. I was like, we'll have waivers. It's fine. That is, you put social media on a can. Yeah. The can's the new Instagram. your brain your brain fires so next level okay and so as we close so the content let's just close the content the content should feel and look like your brand ours is all about fashion meets fitness meets fun and you want to influence right so we literally have a magazine here where you'll have like a beautiful spread just like what would you see in harper's bazaar or vogue and then you have actually like bylines of people converting to the good energy club and then you actually have energy like you want to share the inner life these are people that have had our drink in a euphoric moment whether it was a i mean a gorgy paloma let's go right yeah hit it okay so if you are listening please make sure that you hop on over to youtube official jasmine star because michelle is actually showing you the physicality of her products and and her marketing and i i think that I couldn't end this conversation by highlighting one thing that is very admirable from somebody who has a daughter watching somebody so successful build these businesses.

52:40How are you balancing the two? And I know this is like a little side byline, but I feel like it's really important to know. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I would say that like the concept of balance, I just like don't know that word exists. I think it's the concept of everyday committing to your priorities. and that's my children and my husband and then my business. But I have to say that to myself every day because I love building brands and businesses. My son on Mother's Day, you know how you get the card and they write all the beautiful things about their mom, how old she is, what she loves. What does your mom do when she needs to relax?

53:18Oh, she goes and works on her business for a little bit. Oh my gosh. Okay. So on a first grade Mother's Day card, right? Like how much does mommy love to work? Doesn't leave home without a gorgie. So every day I am very clear on my priorities. Last night I took my daughter to a store opening for aloe. And, you know, I just wanted to have that moment with her, but also share with her, like, why I do what I do. And, like, let her experience it and understand it. And I welcome them into all of it, right? Like, were they slinging cans in the Hamptons last summer? Yes. They're like, what are we doing today?

53:55I was like, oh, we're going to X restaurant. and like you're going to grab a cooler and give everybody a can. But invite them into your life and let them see like, oh, this is what mom does, right? Last weekend, they came to Orlando with me for a speaking event and my son was so proud. He's like, mom, you got up on stage and spoke in front of all those people. And I think demonstrating the role that women have in the household now can and should be different. And my daughter at 10 constantly asks me about it. Like, you work so much, mom. Is that okay? Like, she talked about Title IX, I was telling you.

54:33She did a presentation on it. And your daughter's 10 years old. She's 10 years old. Yes. They're understanding how society is shifting. And that is an amazing thing. Because now you have both genders creating beautiful things in the world. How great is that? It's not great. It's beautiful. And it's stunning. And it's amazing. And it's so well deserved. So for people who want to get more information, get Gorgie.com. if they want to connect with you and or Gorgie via social. How is that happening? Give a little shout out. Yes, yes, please. You know, getgorgie.com, at getgorgie. And then I'm the underscore Michelle Grant.

55:04And I'm just so thankful to be here and spreading good energy to all. Good energy club. Let's go. Thank you for listening and watching the Jasmine Starr Show. I specifically wanted this conversation because I see somebody who's done it well, who understands brand and marketing. and more than anything, the exact same approach that she has used to build and scale a massively successful exit and then start another massively successful endeavor, which is well on its way to have a very similar exit if we're looking at trends and statistics. I'm just speaking it into existence. And everything she did is at your fingertips.

55:45That's why this show exists, is do not put reasons or excuses between what you want and where you want to be. What Michelle did is supplanted any excuse with this blocks and said, I don't know how, but I have the capacity to find people who will help me get there. And that is the main takeaway of this show. Thank you for listening and watching The Jasmine Starr Show. It is always an honor and a pleasure.