Embracing Uncomfortable Action to Build a Profitable Business with Craig Siegel from the CLS Experience

25:07And what happened that year for me was when you said, oh, it sounds like you're cracked open. And I always felt like I was open. And it wasn't until like a third person came into my orbit and showed me how closed off I had been. And so we have all of these different opportunities and different invitations of outside forces that challenge and invite us to do something different. But many of us don't rise to that occasion or challenge in the way that empowers us to live completely broken because we're afraid of what it means. We're afraid of the impact. We're afraid of being judged. We're afraid of what people are going to say.

25:43We're afraid of the outcome being on display. And the thing that I realized for me was like my coming out party was I now have a daughter who is going to watch how I live. And she's going to have the closest access to me than anybody else. And if I am duplicitous, the greatest disservice that I can do to my life and to hers is to see her mother talk one way and act like another. And so all of a sudden, I thought I was free. I thought I was okay with my opinions. And now when I look through the vision of like through her lens, all of a sudden I say, who cares? Have your daughter see what it is to live a life unashamed, unafraid, unabandoned, because it is for those little girls who will then stand up and do different things because they saw their mothers show up and do different things.

26:34And so we both had a company out in 2020, but we also have to give ourselves a little bit of credit for accepting what it means and what it feels like to live wide open. Because with much honor and privilege comes a lot of responsibility to that, too. Yeah, this just got real deep. And I want to acknowledge you again. Thank you for being so vulnerable and pulling back the curtain. And to be honest, I wanted to ask you about this, but I wanted to tread lightly. And I agree with everything you said. Two things. Number one, I'm not a parent yet, just got engaged, hopefully in the near future. But something that's really important to me is like, if you're going to tell your kid, right, like, hey, you could be anything you want to be or pursue dreams, who are they going to look at first?

27:14Well, mom, why aren't you? Right? Or dad, how come you're not? So for anyone that's like lacking a why right now, even just take that, right? And be the best example for your kid. And then also, I know that you've been vocal about the adoption process and so forth. And I believe you said it felt like rejection, but that was a story that you were kind of replaying. And then you transformed it and reframed it. I'm curious, how did you reframe it? What was the reframe? When I look back at that person, I want to give appreciation, give grace, because the reframe took a long time. I'm Craig. I was just like, when I look back at it, I was like, could you not just enjoy the wait?

27:56Could you not just trust and believe that the promise that you had been given from God, that you would have a family? I believed it, but you know, you wait a few months and then you wait a few years and then you begin to doubt. And I just wish that I look back and be like, the waiting was part of the process. You were not ready that your home was not ready. Your body was not ready. Maybe your bank accounts weren't even ready. I can't know why I wasn't ready, but I wish I had trusted and enjoyed the process instead of always looking around being like, when, why not me? And the rejection came in the form.

28:31And I know it was a story and I wish I could have just stepped outside of myself and said, baby girl, choose a different story. You're not being rejected. You're being redirected that this child, you're not choosing this child. This child's choosing you. So why are you going to rush her? Why can't you just enjoy that baby girl is sitting with my grandma in heaven waiting for the right time to come? Why can't I choose that story? And so she taught me that everything that I know, I have been given a promise. Greg, I know I'm going to do something big with my life. I know it. I feel it in my bones.

29:02And in the middle of this conversation, we're having this. I was like, dang, there's some really hard days. There's some really hard weeks. If I was going to be honest with you, 2022 was a really hard year. And so what I learned in that lesson is that every rejection is a redirection. And do I believe that I have a God promise? Do I have a purpose promise? Do I have a big promise? Do I have a universal promise? I do. I freaking do. So if I believe the promise, the way that I believe the promise that I was going to get my daughter, why can't I find joy in the journey? Because the destination, what we said, the destination isn't joy.

29:34It's the process that will get us there. And so how did I reframe it? Number one, I wish I'd have done it sooner. And then number two, I couldn't see the lesson until I went through it. But now, now for the rest of my life, it's not rejection, it's redirection. It's not rejection, it's redirection. That thing is waiting for you. Do I have the purpose and the courage and the wherewithal to wait for it? That's a different question. Over time, what she taught me was it's coming as long as you don't quit. Yeah. Hell yeah. Amen. And it's like, whenever something happens, it seems like an obstacle. right you're really just being protected and propelled to something greater and it's definitely tough to figure it out in the process but if you have that mindset then you're never really going to be crippled by adversity because you know even though you don't identify it right now something good is going to come from this absolutely absolutely but like okay so people hear this and you know like they're they're sitting on the subway or they're cooking you know okay they're listening to this and they're like okay that's good for you it's a practice this.

30:36So how about I invite people into a challenge? Invite people into a reframe. Think of something that hurts you. Just the thought of it. Just the thought of it. A job you lost, a relationship that maybe you have an estranged relationship with a child. Perhaps you lost a friendship. If you look back at that and there's enough time in between the present and what happened in the past. Can you identify one or two good things that came on the back of that? Can we not just say that what was next was better? Can we not give gratitude for the heartbreak? Can we not give gratitude for the things we said in anger that we now regret?

31:21Because now we know we will never say that again. We have to be able to look at the past and say something good came from it. Because when we can do that and we're in the hard and we're in the suck and we're in the raise an angry fist, why, why, why? We're like, something good's gonna come out from this. I'm gonna start looking for the good that's coming out from this. Because the longer it takes for us to look back at an experience and say something good came out from us, the longer we're gonna sit in the distillation of the suck. But if I am in the suck and I'm like, oh, something good, something good's coming.

31:51I can't see it quite yet, but I'm training my mind to see it. The shorter that time gets, the faster we rebound and we get started on the next thing. That's it. Because then you stay available, right? 100%. That next miracle blessing or whatever it is. 100%. Yeah. So you had a pretty tough, challenging year last year? Yeah. You know, last week I send a weekly newsletter and these weekly newsletters, they're just, you know, they're just me being me and they're me sharing the journey. And last week, I think the exact quote was, 2022 handed me a pile of poop in a blender with a straw. You know, like that was just like, that was the year.

32:27That was like everything that you had thought and worked for and every anticipation and every outcome and every like plan goal. This is the thing. It's like nothing, nothing. And here's the thing. I say that and right now I'm like, oh, you foolish, foolish child. My family is healthy. My in-laws are cool. I love my siblings. I live in a house I love. I eat plenty of good food, so much good food that I probably should not have eaten as much good food as I did. My relationships, the people I work with, the stages I've been able to speak on, the content I create, these conversations, all of that existed.

33:10And so why do I say that 2022 was a pile of poop when I said, yeah, it was a pile of poop, but guess what? It was a pile of other stuff too. So I'm going to choose to say today, today, look at me, look at all these months later into 2023. And it's like, no, no, no. I'm going to look back and be like, the poop existed. But I can also change my, what am I going to focus on? Because it was poop and there was other stuff too. So from here on forward, I'm going to express appreciation for what 22 brought me, the mixed bag that it was. And I'm going to focus on all the good because I still have my parents, still have my family, and we're healthy.

33:42Like you have that. New day, first start. A little bit of gratitude. And also there's always another perspective. You know what? Thank you for saying that. I'm going to work on that myself. Anytime there's a setback on obstacle. Okay, that kind of sucked, but what else good was involved? What perspective did it provide me? So I'm now ready for the next one. You and me both. It's like, how about I send you a bill for therapy and then you send me a bill for therapy? I think California therapy is a little more expensive. This conversation is awesome. It's very, very deep. Not your typical podcast, and that's what I love.

34:18I want to get into all the exciting things you have going on right now, but I got to ask you this. You do this better than anyone else. And it's something that I finally leaned into. And in the last two years, I've grown more than the previous 35 combined. And that is betting on yourself. And I think a lot of people, it sounds great, but they don't have the courage to lean into that. Why has that been so important for you to bet on yourself? So I think I want to go back to the word that you had just said. And you had said a lot of people don't have courage. And I am certain we all have courage, all of us at all times, but we must make a decision to use that courage coin.

35:05We all have courage. So sometimes people just don't resonate. Like, oh, I got courage. You do, but will you use that coin? Will you cash that coin in? Not on, because when we talk about courage, we say, oh, we don't have courage. But if somebody threatened your loved one, you don't need courage. You're just gonna cash in that coin. You don't have to think about it. Oftentimes we challenge us cashing in our courage on us. And that's where I want to like, just kind of like dwell in that. And it's the idea of betting on you when we feel oftentimes, oh, I would bet on him, her. I've been on the stock market before I bet on myself.

35:42And all I'm inviting people to do is, listen, your coins, Don't have to all be cashed in. You don't have to re-fi your home. You don't have to quit your job. You don't have to say no different relationships. But can you make tiny little micro bets on yourself? Because what happens is we need to train the brain. The mind and the brain are like two parts, like a yin and a yang. But oftentimes the brain becomes so overpowered in that yin and yang that the mind becomes really small. But I like to look at the mind as a jockey and the brain as a horse. The brain is powerful. The brain can run so fast in any direction, but the problem is the brain runs in so many directions that we don't actually take any movement.

36:22So what we need is to strengthen the jockey, our mind, so that we channel our horse to get it to where we want to go. But that takes time. And so we talk about betting on yourself. We talk about making courageous decisions. All I'm asking people to do is talk to your dang jockey. Tell your jockey that you don't need to refinance your home, but can you save$50 a month for the next six months to invest in a form of education to empower you to get to where you want to go? Can you do that? Yes or no? Can you spend 10 minutes a day, buy a small book and keep it by the side of your bed? And that book can be about any topic that lights you up.

37:01It could be about anime, it could be about financial investing, it could be about self-development, whatever. Find the book that lights you up and can you spend 10 minutes a day with the book instead of Netflix? That's a courage coin. So let's not like say that courage just wearing some armor and making these big valiant decisions. You only get to make big valiant decisions after you've done the tiny little cashing in coins of weeks, months, years, and decades. So if you really want to change your life, your career, your relationships, are you willing to take one coin every day and cash it in on you?

37:34That's all I ever invite people to do as they start on that journey. Jasmine, I just got a little emotional when you were speaking because you really resonate with me, which means you're really going to resonate with the audience. so forth you speak first of all the micro bets on yourself that's genius right because then you don't have to be so intimidated right like you don't have to run a marathon can you get a pair of running shoes you try them on can you maybe run one mile tomorrow but you speak with such passion and i feel like there's a little bit of i mean there's all the respect like a little bit of pain behind it in the best way like you've been through some shit heavily all but you're You're passionate.

38:10It could be you're a fire latina. I don't know. But you're so passionate and you're penetrating my soul right now. And what you're saying is available and applicable for everybody listening right now. Right? Micro bets. What can you... You don't have to get a touchdown every day. How can you get a first down today? How can you just move the chains a little bit? How can you just accumulate a little bit more information to work on your side project? That's available for everybody. So I want to stay corrected. You're right. it's not a courage thing it's can you act upon that 20 seconds of courage and lean into it 100 yeah yeah this just got real deep uh social curators what's the deal with this for my audience who might not be familiar you know okay so here's the thing people come on podcasts and it's a platform we get to share it and talk about it but i have come to discover that if i serve and i speak the way that i like to be served and spoken to it's a far greater thing.

39:08And so, yes, I'm CEO of Social Curator. We talk like if you have like want to market your business and you want to show up and you want to schedule posts, we got that. That's cool. But what I would rather talk about is how do we go deeper without a call to a very clear call to action? And it's like, if you like what has happened here, then you can do some digging. You're smart enough to figure it out. But if we want to have more conversations, then, you know, in addition to the experience, the Jasmine Starr show, that's it. You know, let's go deeper with these conversations. Like, let's get real before somebody has an opinion on me on a 40, 45 minute conversation, you ain't going to have a real opinion.

39:39I want you to do the dirty work. I want you to have an opinion about me. I'm equally okay for you to say, that's my person, or I can't stand the last thing about her. I'm not trying to be on this conversation to be liked. I'm trying to be on this conversation to be trusted. So if you trust me and you start making differences in your life, then I've done my job. All I believe that I've been called to be put on this earth to convince people that impossible things are actually possible if you decide to make them that way. Because I have seen that the minute I started to believe that anything was possible, the possibilities came to fruition.

40:09And on the back of that, I have changed my family tree. I have changed our legacy. I have changed our finances. I have changed everything simply because I had the bold, courageous decision to actually believe that what was once impossible is actually possible. So if I can convince anybody else that what you think is impossible, literally what you think is impossible, I became a top rank, internationally recognized photographer in less than two years and I didn't own a camera when I started my business. I became the CEO of a SaaS tech company and I have never, not once, read, seen, or written a line of code.

40:43I am literally an embodiment that unqualified, unprepared, unfunded, uneducated people can do what it is they want to do if they choose to believe. And if you choose to take action, that's it. So this podcast, I just got to get you to believe. and then what do I need to do next? I need to get you to action. How do we get to action? I don't know. Come in my orbit. Let's see if I come on. It's like a nice little arse kicking. Let's see. It's an arse kicking with love. It's like I can't. I'll kick you in the pants. Con amor. You know, it's like, let's go. Like, are you with it? Are you not? And it's fine.

41:13Get on the train or no. It doesn't matter to me. But that's to me how we go deep. How we go deep. That's it. We really are on fire. I mean, come on. Like, that's so good, right? For so many people, especially in the audience like entrepreneurs or people that want to do that and so forth they think like obviously imposter syndrome is trendy but really what they're thinking is either what are people going to say or am i unqualified and you are the living breathing embodiment and testimonial of you to be qualified you just need to get going to be inspired to be resourceful to be determined that's right that was right and here's the thing i am deeply empathetic to that I'm deeply empathetic to being unqualified but who cares like since when his qualifications stopped anybody from dreaming and so in my mind your grandmother could have said it and your great-grandmother and my mom our moms could have said that that they were unqualified therefore they didn't pursue it we don't have that excuse because we have the freaking internet we have every college we have every thought leader we have every question that has been answered a billion times over.

42:21We have YouTube, which is hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours of every tutorial. Everything else is figureoutable. Period. The end. You don't know the answer. Go to Google and study for the answer. The answers will come to you. And then you need to use your courage coin and see, can I cash in a little bit on this? When I was looking for a CTO and I didn't know what the heck I was looking for. I just started reading tech forums. I started asking questions like, what language do you write? And I didn't even know what languages they were, but I was like, okay and i started asking people and i started asking but i started asking better questions the more courage coins that i used that is all of it unqualification no longer matters why the internet give you a diploma i always say i got my mba from university google i really do i really do and it's accessible to everybody for free let's say let's just call what it is in 2023 and education does not me in college.

43:15Amen. Exactly. YouTube. Exactly. Books, podcasts, free. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Hell yeah. We'll land the plane with this last question. And this is just selfish for me. As our brand is scaling and growing right now and we're hiring and it's very exciting. And I used to have this limiting belief, like who the hell is going to wake up as excited about CLS as Craig? But that is a limiting belief. And what got us here is not what's going to get us there. So you have to delegate and trust, obviously. And you talk about that a lot. And something that I saw you said, which if I'm being honest, I don't know exactly know what you mean, but I'd love to, is that you don't hire just for a role, but you hire to go against core values.

43:54And then also you talked about how you used to hate to give feedback because you hate to hurt feelings. Oh, I love this question. Okay, so this is like, this is like, now I get into the nitty gritty, the business stuff. This is the land I dwell. Like this is the stuff I eat for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. So I want to go back to something and something that you had said was a limiting belief was that somebody doesn't believe that CLS could actually be how you perceive and believe in how big CLS could be. And I'm like, okay, but let's just separate that. You don't need people on your team to believe the way that you do.

44:26You don't. You need them to believe that you could lead them to what your vision is. I don't need to have people believe of my future as much as I need to empower them to put their vision inside of my own. can you be happy can you play to your skill set can you do what you love and do it on this team can you believe that i can get us to this vision leveraging your skill sets i don't need you to believe in my vision i mean it would be nice it's not contingent i want them to they don't have to you are happy and you're fulfilled and you're doing with people you like hot dang what more could I ask for teammates?

45:07We cool. We straight. You can apply your same skill set anywhere else and you choose to do it here. Thank you. I am honored. I'm going to honor you for that, but I don't need you to like and love and breathe my business the way that I do. We're a team. We're not a family. So again, I know people are like, we're a family here. That's fine. I love that. But like, I want to play on the Olympic team. You know, it's like your family, like nobody's getting between me and my family, but that's why I don't work with my family. because I need to be able to say like, this ain't working. I'm going to make a business decision.

45:36I'm not making a personal decision. And so when we hire for a role, let's say I'm currently looking for a creative director. What I am trying to do, there's a lot of talented people who could do the job. So I'm going to list in this role description, everything they're going to be responsible for, what we're expecting, how do they know they're successful? How do they get and deal with feedback? All of this is just in this intake form. and once you pass the qualification area, then I'm going to map towards our core values. This is how we're going to get, who's getting an interview? Our core values, some of our core values are going to be forward thinking.

46:12I need you to think about every step in the future and prepare for that so that when you come in with a proposal, with an idea, you're just like, okay, this is what it is. This is what's going to come and this is how we're going to prepare for it. Ah, already? Good. Another thing that we're thinking about is adaptability. I need to know that if your plan does not go to plan because they never do. You have a plan B and you have a plan C and you're ready to show up with just as much vigor as you were for your initial idea and plan. Those are just a couple of our core values. So we get through, yes, you're qualified.

46:41We measure them against the core values. And then one of the things that we're looking for, it's just to close that last question was dealing with feedback. There was a time in my life that I was so concerned about hurting some of these feelings that I kept on absorbing, okay, well, I really need them to do this. I really need them to show up. And so instead, let me just do it so many times that when they see me do it, they're going to be like, my thought was, oh, that's how she wants it done. I'll do it like that. And guess what? Never worked. If you don't tell people how they are not succeeding, they will not succeed.

47:13And so out of my fear for making them feel bad, I was actually doing them a disservice. And it would end up being like, at the end of it, I was like, I'm just not satisfied with this job anymore. And they're like, why? And it seemed like it came out of nowhere when I was in the back of two years of just shutting my mouth, shutting my mouth. Let me just do the work. Let me just do the work instead of just saying, and so let's create a real-time juxtaposition. Yesterday, I was working with somebody who in our content area and I had said, okay, so here's some facts. I stated three facts. I said, here's my desires, three desires.

47:41And here's how we measure the success of our new attempt at creating content. These three things. I was like, I want this to work. So now we have clean metrics. If we try our new content plan and it's succeeding the way that we want and we're getting the results, then we know this content plan works and we're going to be in this in the long haul. If after we go through this content plan and it's not working the way that we didn't expect it, and we give it our best shot, then I'm going to say at that point in time, it's no longer serving both parties. Was that an easy conversation? Well, oftentimes we apply a label, hard and easy, and we associate bad and good.

48:14And we have these negative emotions. What I have done is like, I'm having a conversation. I could choose to say it's hard. I could choose to say it's easy, or I could just look at it agnostically and be like, I'm having a conversation. I'm stating my truth because we're not friends. We are having a business transaction. Every person who comes in and works for the Jazz and Star Social Curied organization, it's a transaction. You have your personal brand that you are deciding to invest in here and I'm deciding to invest in you. Are you mutually happy? Are you mutually getting a response here? Because if not, then it is in your best interest as it is in mine for you to go somewhere where you are seen and you are known.

48:47So now I have a very clean slate with this next content creator. I'm like, we got some metrics to hit. Let's go. And if, God forbid, it doesn't work in this three-month time span that we're looking at, we knew what it was and we missed it. No hard feelings. We're good. We're going to go in a different direction. Yeah. Hell yeah. This is so good. So valuable. And also, if you don't speak the truth, then you're doing both parties to the service, right? Because maybe it's not the right fit. You might as well just get it out of the way. Absolutely. You mentioned three months there. So we just started hiring and so forth.

49:19And we do like a three month, I don't know what you want to call it, probation period or something where we see if we're a good fit for each other. Is that what you're referring to? This is a very good point of clarification. So we call this our indoctrination, like our non-indoctrination, our induction, indoctrination. We'll talk about that too. We do a 30, 60, 90 day check-in program for anybody new we hire. So after 30 days, we do an assessment. What's working? Where do you feel stuck? What things that we have seen that we would like to see improved on in the next 30 days, which is natural.

49:47Every time somebody's new to the organization, there's always a new way of getting acclimated of what's going on. And then we check in on the 60 days and we say, this is what we denoted in 30 days. Here is the progress or lack of progress that happened in between now. What is stopping you from achieving across the board all enhancements that has been requested? And then we get to the 90 days. And if this person is not fully on board in 90 days, then we have a very clear documentation. We wanted this. We stepped in here. We asked for assessments. We didn't miss the mark. It's probably not a good fit because if you're not hitting it within 90 days, you're not So to me, that's it.

50:18Now for this particular person, we've been working together now for years. And the beauty of the conversation was that in all actuality, it's nothing with the quality of her work. It's nothing with the quality of how I'm showing up. It's nothing with the quality of the content. I'm just saying, we have to change. We have to change our approach to actually be thinking about content in an ever-changing landscape. Does this approach still work? And that's the question. So it's not about her, it's not about me. It's like, does it work? Because if it doesn't work, then cool, you're gonna find somebody that it does work with because it might not be working with where I'm aligned to go.

50:46And so I think it was a really great conversation. She said it was a really great conversation. Now we have a very clear way. How do we win? And I literally have no doubt. She's a smart whip. We're going to find a way to win. First of all, I'm so glad we landed a plane here. And it's funny because I like to say like tough conversations are a part of life. So you might as well get good at them. But why should I even label them tough? Maybe they're just conversations. They're conversations. They're conversations. There's conversations. And what we do is I state and I was just like the story I'm telling myself.

51:16So I first put it on me. Well, first I'm going to start with like, you're amazing at what it is you do. We're having a complete agnostic conversation. Like we've been working together now a minute. We know you're good. And you know that what we have developed has been awesome. Now we're going to have a results conversation. And then we're going to have a planned conversation. And then we're going to have an assessment conversation at the end of the next three months. Are we cool? We're cool. There's no toughness about it. And we could say the story I'm telling myself is that you're going to take this personally or that it's a lack of vision on my part.

51:43And when I said the story I'm telling myself, It opened up her to be like, that was never your responsibility. And I had done something that I'm just like, I felt guilty asking her. She's like, you felt guilty for asking me to do extra work. But what I heard and what I felt was that you'd given me a pathway to success. So good. Dang. Conversations. Conversations. Yeah. Lean into them. Don't drop the mic. This is too good. I think I know the answer because you mentioned it earlier. But what's the best? Our audience is very loyal and engaging. What's the best way for all of them to support you? Let's all support each other.

52:17I'm on social media, on all social platforms, at Jasmine Star, and my podcast is The Jasmine Star Show. Bye. Thank you, homie. Jasmine, I want you to know you have the definition of perspective, authenticity, and wisdom from taking your life experience and spreading positivity, light, and deep truths. I can personally guarantee your best year to come. Keep on spreading your wings and leaving your mark on this world. So much love and respect for you. Thank you so much for stopping by and dropping these priceless, juicy nuggets today. no dude you get closer and your openers and your closers man hit me in the heart so good thank you thank you homie thank you that was a special conversation thank you thank you thank you man thank you you're a gifted conversationalist you bring out the best likewise skill man it's a skill thank you and that went all over the map in the best way possible oh totally yeah i love everything that you're about i'd love to continue to support you let's Stay connected.

53:11Please. I would love that. I really mean that. I'm not that kind of person to not say something that I didn't mean. So thank you. What's the best way on Instagram? Yeah. It's where I answer my DMs faster than I answer my emails, if you can believe it. I hate admitting it, but it's true. It's true. Well, we're good. I'm going to shoot you a message in like maybe 10 minutes and we'll support each other there. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it. Thanks, Craig. Take care. Blessings. Have a good day. Bye. Wasn't that powerful? Reframing failures into lessons and using each one to learn and refine will help you stay resilient during challenging times in your business.

53:45You can connect with Craig at craigsegal underscore CLS. Thank you so much for listening today.