How to Build Long-Lasting Client Relationships in Business

0:0010 years ago, I made the decision to build my personal brand that was elevated, yet approachable, and reflected who I was, not just what I did. I created my website with ShowIt because it's true drag-and-drop freedom, so you can easily build and update your site. Plus, their real human support team, game changer. Want to try it for yourself? Head to jasminestar.com forward slash showit for a 14-day free trial and first month free when you subscribe. Welcome to the Jasmine Star Show, where today we are going to have a special episode. I had the opportunity to speak to podcast host, brand photographer, and educator Angie McPherson.

0:34We talked about longevity. We talked about creating not just fans, but evangelist for your business. We talked about what a customer journey looks like and how do you have people stay with you with every iteration of your business. And then we got really deeply personal. She shared how we first met. She shared how and why she stays in contact with my business and then how she made a very big investment decision to go deep with my business. I hope you enjoy because she definitely spilled the tea. Okay, friends, we have my girl Jasmine Star on the show. Hey, Jasmine. Angie, you know, you prep me for the show by saying this is a conversation between two girlfriends.

1:13We're going to keep it casual, but we're going to go deep. And I was like, I'm here for it. I cannot wait to chat with you. I really want to talk to you. Let me just do a quick little brief intro and how I found out about you. Jasmine started as a wedding photographer and that is how I found her. I literally Googled how to become a wedding photographer in the world of Jasmine Star. I remember your website, your blog, everything. I remember how it looked. And that was over 11 years ago for me. And Jasmine is a CEO, world-class speaker, thought leader, podcast host, mom, wife, and just an inspiration to hundreds of thousands of entrepreneurs, including me.

1:50And we've seen so many pivots in your business. and like me, I was buying your$12 digital downloads 10 years ago. And as recent as last year, I mean, I think I've probably invested in every single thing that you put out there. Like I'm like a long time fan client. And last year I invested in your mastermind and I was like, Jasmine, I want to have you on and have you talk to my audience about how to create needs in your business. Like long-term clients who no matter what you're putting out there, see the value and everything and how we can move their business forward. I don't know what you can't do.

2:24Everything I listed, you've done it all. And so I just want to talk about how we can create those long-term fans and clients in your business. Okay. But can we go real, real, real quick? Yeah. Okay. Because you said Jasmine, you know, over a decade ago, I was buying these$10 downloads that you were selling as photographer resources. Yeah. And then you said, I've bought basically everything that you put out, including your mastermind. But if we're going to get real, real, you and I, you were in my mastermind and we were out to dinner in the group. And I like to, I like to float at different seats so that I can talk to everybody.

2:58So then you and I end up sitting next to each other. And then you tell me about the conversation that you and your husband had before you were going to invest in the mastermind. So why don't we just start there? Like we're we're getting there. Let's keep it all the way real. So keep in mind, like I said, you've had products from$12,$9.97. I think I've done, you know, I've been social curator since the beta group, like so many different points of investments. And you told me you were launching a mastermind and I told my husband, I was like, Sean, I don't care what it costs. I have to invest in this.

3:33I've invested in everything she's done and it just comes back 300, 400%. And he's like, okay, well, how much is it? Within our marriage and my business, I usually don't run any investments by him unless it's like ridiculous. But this one, I was like, okay, I'm going to have to tell him. And so I said, well, what do you guess? What do you guess? And he's like, oh, you know, I'm thinking$5 ,000. And I'm like, yikes. I'm like, okay, bro. And this was, he guessed this before you put it out there, but I knew, I knew it was not going to be$5 ,000. And email came out. I saw the price, showed him the price.

4:16And I don't think I've ever seen his eyes go that big. So let's drop the number. Let's drop the number. $25 ,000. $25 ,000. That's right. I didn't blink. No, I didn't. I stutter. $25 ,000. By far the biggest investment I think I've ever made. I I think the biggest before that I've done was like$10 ,000 for maybe like a year mastermind. And his eyes just glazed over. And you know what? I don't want to say cheap as he is because he's not cheap. He's frugal. As frugal as he is. He did not try to talk me out of it. He said, okay, well, how are you going to make it work? And literally, this is how I do my investments.

4:59It's not like, oh, no, how can I afford this? It's how can I make this happen? You know, literally the next day I launched a branding photography retreat. I found a house on Airbnb. I put it out to a wait list and I sold it out within 12 hours. This is how you make things happen. When you know something is valuable, you literally just make it happen. Whether you, you know, and this, this podcast is for all types of entrepreneurs and not just photographers, but whether you book a shoot, whether you do mini sessions, whether you work one-on-one with a client, anytime I see an investment and I'm like, okay, how can I make this work?

5:30I just make it work. I literally figure out a way to make it work. And it was a very, very scary investment. It was so worth it. And I literally made the investment back and then some within four months, the biggest investment, but the best. One thing about you, Angie, is that you and I have this in common. Yeah, it is not how can I afford this period? Because the inflection is how can I afford that? Right. Right. And the way that you and I have learned to ask that is with a question mark. How can I afford this? Right. And then you're like, great. Now we went from a dead end thinking, well, how could I ever to, how could I ever afford this?

6:11Let's go. And so I think that that's a very telling point to the people that I attract in my work. And so we had the conversation about how does Angie attract more Angies in her business? How does anybody attract an Angie into their business? And, you know, I have to say that more than anything, and I've heard this told about myself, I want to make sure that I'm very aware that people have said to a person holding a hammer, everything's a nail, right? And so when I look at myself, it's like your girl is like, what is that like Arm & Decker or Hammer? What is the Decker brand? Like Decker & Decker, whatever.

6:49Yeah, that's really, uh-huh. I don't use tools. Maybe they're, there are some famous Decker Hammer and basically like the gold plated version of that. Like I am very much a hammer. And so people will say, well, Jasmine's responses to everything is content. And maybe to me, everything looks like a nail. I can own that. But what I will say is the thing that has attracted and kept people like you and like others in the orbit has been content. And I feel so sure of that answer because I actually haven't done anything else. Right now that is a blessing and a curse. Like I wonder what could I have done to kept or attract other people before the lifespan?

7:34Like you and I met at four different iterations of my career. You have gone with the business every single point of that. And the way that that has happened, Angie, is we don't pick up the phone and call each other. We don't have regular conversations. I mean, we DM, but as far as regularity goes, it is a direction that content flows from me to you, from me to you. And occasionally you'll engage back. And then occasionally you'll be putting out content and you'll start realizing that there's going to be a group of people who follow you. So when we like focus the conversation of how do we create not just fans, people who like us or what we do, but how do we create evangelists?

8:17Right. And that's a very big difference because the people who are evangelists in any business, well, they are your gold mines. And I can look at you in this podcast and say, you're a gold mine. And so let's have that conversation. What is it that you would like to know, knowing I've already called myself out, I'm a golden hammer, but we can actually distill down more of what we need to do in order to attract more people who aren't just fans, but evangelists. I love that. I love it. And my question is, I would love to know the type of research you do. Like you said, we have touched points at different iterations.

8:52What type of research do you do to see, oh, this person is now in this stage and this is what this person needs as far as content in this stage versus two, three years ago? How do you find that in your audience? So this is a pretty significant difference is I don't look for it in the audience. I create from where I'm at. Right. And so as I continuously evolve, the question I'm asking is, what did I need to know five years ago that I wish I knew? Or, you know, what do I wish I knew two years ago? Right. What do I wish I knew two years ago or five years ago that I could be creating content about.

9:32Now, here's the beautiful thing is Angie, along with my evolution, you have evolved, right? As people are growing along my brand, they themselves are growing. Now there's a group of people who didn't evolve alongside me. Not that that's good or bad, but I never said, Hey, how can I create content for that person? It simply became, how do I create content for the previous version of me? Larry Vaden said it best. He says, you are most powerfully suited to serve a version of who you once were. And so all of us, you know, instead of me, like, I want to go after that person, but if I don't actually know that person, I don't really understand their pressure points.

10:10It's going to come off as like thirsty, desperate, different, uninformed. And I know who I was two years ago and I know my struggle points five years ago. And so that is the current answer, but let's get into like the brass tacks of it. at this point in time, as us having this conversation is, I am not foolish enough to believe that my journey looks like everybody else's journey. I do know the journey getting to a million dollars in your business becomes a very different pressure point for the people who are trying to scale from 1 million to 10 million. Right. Because that, that growth path from, you know, zero to a million is hard.

10:48You are just going to do so you're going to wear so many hats in your business, you're going to do all the things you might be able to get away with one or two virtual assistants. You can get away to a million. Then when you reach that inflection point of a million, what normally happens with a lot of the data and research that I have been doing pretty extensively is you will either burn yourself out because you're burning the wick at both ends. Yeah. Or you get to a point to where your VAs are doing as much as they can, but without you managing every part of the puzzle piece, you're still going to be in the business and you're not going to be working on the business.

11:20Right. And so up until this point in my career, I feel like I've been doing a lot of content for that zero to a million. And so as I've evolved and as the business has grown and so many things have changed that I started asking myself, well, what did I need from that journey? You know, past one, two, three, four, five million. What were those things that I needed at that point in time? So now I find myself creating content for that. But here's the main, main point that I want anybody to take over is when you are actually creating content for a future offer, even if you don't know what that offer is quite yet, it's going to be so important that you test your assumptions.

11:54And so right now what I have done, and this is super scrappy, but you know, Angie, like I don't, I listen, I want to be high class. I want to be luxury. You know, it's like, I literally, I literally would love, love, love, you know, to be like a G6, but I'm out here like a class on Southwest, but it's all good. We're still getting there. We're still getting there. And so what I have done is like, how do I start talking to other seven figure entrepreneurs to actually see if my hypothesis of the struggle from one to five and one to seven actually is true. And so that market research is really difficult because any business owner who starts any business that you have only 4 % of business owners will ever across a million dollars.

12:37Wow. And of that 4%, 0.7 of them are women. Wow. And then of that 0.7%, 0.2 or 0.3 are women of color. And so when I'm trying to do research, finding 4 % of people to talk to in all of the entrepreneurs, it's actually a lot more difficult. So I took to resources and platforms. So I really started focusing heavily on LinkedIn and heavily on my existing audience and Instagram. So I just started going over to people's profiles and actually some people actually say I'm a seven figure entrepreneur or I built multi-million dollar revenue streams. So I started following them. I started engaging. And then I was like, you want to know what I want to do?

13:19I want to get research, but it seems a little creepy if I'm just going to like reach out to me like, Hey, can I chat with you? How you built your business? That's weird. And so what I decided to do is in the future, I'll be creating a series chronicling the stories and journeys of seven figure entrepreneurs on my podcast. I love that. So I reached out to these people and I was like, I'm getting data. I want to know people's struggles and journeys. And so then I said, would you be willing to have a 15 minute conversation? But what am I really doing? Research and development. Right. And so I just send a calendar link.

13:48And then there are certain days of the month that I'm just like, I'm going to talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. And so my calendar looks like a zebra, right? It's like, I'm just going in and all I'm doing is asking three questions. And the reason why I'm sharing the three questions is because, you know, when people listen to your podcast. I don't want them just learning. I actually want them doing. And that first question is what has been the greatest way that you have scaled your business past two or$3 million? I love that. What has been the thing that hasn't yielded the best ROI? Like maybe you wish you had done differently or just wasn't worth your time or money.

14:18And then number three, if I am your Latina fairy grandmother and I can grant any wish that will help you scale past 10 million. And here's the thing. It doesn't have to make sense. You can make up the craziest thing. It doesn't have to make sense. But if I can grant you your wish, what do you think is going to scale you past 10 million? Those three questions will give you so much information about what people have loved, what do they need and what do they actually want? Right. Because nobody sits there and says, you know what I really want? But actually when you start imagining, you know what?

14:48And I started realizing there are very distinct patterns, very distinct patterns between the entrepreneurs between two and five and then five and 10. And so now it's my job to start distilling that information and then start saying, well, where's the gap? And can I create something to fill that gap? I love that. I love that because there have been points in my business where I think, and many people can relate, where you have offers out there and you feel like, you know, this is it. These are all the offers I have. I just need to get new people into my business. And you're talking about doing this research and development and seeing how you can help people even, you know, more than you already are at different stages in their business.

15:26And let me just have to say this. You have given me the best business device ever. It was at the first time I met you in person at the social curator event. You did a giveaway from your members. I won. It was like the highlight of my career. And I was telling you, I was like, you know what? People are asking a lot of questions about brand photography. And you said you need to buy where the land is cheap and build a high rise. and I wrote that in my notebook and I still have that notebook and I look at it all the time. Every time I'm thinking about a different offer or a different concept or perspective or something, I'm just like, okay, where's the land sheet right now?

15:58How can I bring my influence and impact and value and build a higher eyes? And that's when I pivoted into education. I didn't even have an idea of pivoting into education. I was just doing a lot of free content, didn't know what was coming. And like you said, you might not know what's coming, but still create the content and do that research and development. So I love this because it makes me want to take some time this year and think about that photographer who wants to go to the next level and what I can create for them. So I love that. Absolutely. It's a different revenue stream, but you know, I want to have two points of clarification.

16:28Number one is I'm a big fan of a product suite, right? Cause it's easier to sell to somebody who's already bought from you. Statistically, I think it's like obscene. It's like more than 50%. Like if somebody's already bought from you, there's a much higher likelihood. And so then you have an opportunity, not just you as an entrepreneur, but as anybody's looking at their business and they look at a product suite, there's going to be needs as people progress throughout their journey. And what you just said is, Oh, I see the next step in their journey. I think I can create something for that possibly.

16:58Right. But what I want to be very clear is, is we don't want to build out. And this is not something for you because I know your journey. I know your business. And I absolutely know that whatever you put out is going to slap because you put in so much time in building other programs. but what I see a lot of is like, well, I can have this program and I can have this one and then I'm gonna do this and there's gonna be a membership and then I'm gonna switch here. But what happens is if we don't actually spend time to build out the systems for each offer, then we're gonna be building a lot of short ladders.

17:24And so one, I just really want to give you your flowers because what you've done with your program is that you've drilled it down. You have the journey, you have the transformation, you know how it sells, you know, your conversion rates, you know what you're list building, you have those things. And so now that that's in place, we can actually hire somebody to come into your team and really take over the tasks that don't need Angie. Angie's system works. We just need a mini Angie within the business to make sure that the ball is moving that line. And then we got to get all of Angie's magic and power at building the next offer in the products week, because nobody can do that.

17:54You're the only person in your business who can build out that next offer. At least right now, my dream in the future is to build out a team who sees the demands, who creates the offers. And I'm like, Oh, oh, I could see this and let's start running with those things. I'm not there yet, but I could see the future of that existing. And right now you and I are in the position to be, we're going to lead these new projects, but we're going to make sure that we're replacing ourselves in the business. We want to work ourselves out of a job so that we have upward extension. I love that. Work ourselves out of a job.

18:22I love that. I want to touch on your pivots. You've had such an amazing entrepreneurial journey. I mean, from wedding photographer courses, you know, SaaS company, and there's just so many different pivot in your business. What kind of comes up for you when you feel like, okay, it's time to do something new or pivot or create something different? Is there something that internally comes to you? Do you get inspired by something? Is there like a time limit where you're like, okay, I've done this for five years. It sounds great. Like what is the secret to you moving on to something bigger and better?

18:55I will say that it hasn't looked the same at all in every iteration, but I can say that around year five, something happens. It's either that I see a gap in my current market, a gap in my business that kind of like sparked something as an extension that's happened. And I've also noticed an energetic heaviness. When things start feeling energetically heavy, that once gave me so much life. It's a very clear sign that I need to either rekindle the love affair that I had with building this particular division or arm of my business. And how might I do that? Or I need to start building something else.

19:39I have gone through gap in the market, gap in my business and like a just shift, like a thing that happens. It's so clear. It's time. It is absolutely time for me to change. I feel that. I think that's where I was when I pivoted from wedding photography to branding photography. I was like, okay, it's time. I love that because I, I get a lot of questions from people saying, you know, I'm, I want to either pivot it into a different niche of photography or I want to start doing online products. And people are, you know, sometimes they're just scared to try something new because something has just worked for so long.

20:10And they're just, they're fearful of, you know, putting eggs in and one vaccine going all in on something, which is usually how I move. Kind of risky. But so what can you say to those people listening who might be sitting on that fence? Like, I want to try something new, but I'm just so scared it won't work. Well, number one, I'm deeply empathetic to that. That is the way that I saw the world. And I believe and I have experienced that the only way I've been able to have like 10x jumps in my life and business is when I realized my frame of reality. I had to break what I thought was my reality. And most oftentimes the breaking feels scary and painful and very unsure.

20:49But in order for us to actually see the same situation from different potential, we actually have to be like slapped awake as a result of it. And so what I have realized is now I'm listening so much more intuitively to, oh, I'm seeing a gap in the market. I'm seeing a gap in the business or I'm just feeling an energetic weight. And I used to think it had to be an all or nothing. But over the years, I've realized that when the systems are tight enough and locked in, you can replace yourself in that arm of the business. And so a year and a half ago, we placed a president on the inside of Social Curator.

21:22And what Katie has done has just been so whip smart that the systems existed. Now, there's still things that I can only do inside of Social Curator, but there was a lot of things I didn't have to do. It's systematized. And so by her putting her in there, it is literally, quite honestly, opened up 90 percent for me to start building and working on other things. And so guess what? The business is still going. And isn't that the dream of any entrepreneur would still be able not to feel like, oh, I have to sacrifice this revenue arm. Do you? or can you find a really powerful operator pay them well bonus them on performance and still you're allowed and empowered to do other things without saying okay i need to jump from one ship to another why don't we just create an entire armada right i've seen social curator from the beta like literally i remember i think i got an email from from jd for the paypal for 20 dollars it was like a paypal invoice i was like are we getting that ugly we're getting that ugly oh this is a story.

22:23This is a story that very few people even know. In the beginning, we're like, we're not sure this thing's going to work. And we were not even about commitment. We're like, you know, like if we do it a couple months and it's not a thing, it's all good. We didn't even have a payment system. We were sending links one by one to people. Oh, that was so ugly. That was so ugly. So to see, to see it now, because I'm still a member and to see the system that you've built and the launches and the text messages about reminders, Katie's doing this, Jasmine's doing this, during this challenge. I'm just like, oh my gosh, just to see the growth and how you've scaled and how she's the president, she's running things and you're building other things in your business and in your life.

23:10I'm just, it's like, my mind is blown. It's like, just, I can physically see, visually see in my head the PayPal link from, I think it was like JD's email address. Like it wasn't. And I was just like, and back then I was like, oh yeah, I'm in. And now I'm looking at that. I'm like, this girl was scrappy from the jump. And she's, you saw the vision. Like, and then I'm like, what's it going to look like 10 years from now? You're always growing and expanding and there's different people coming into the community. And I'm just so inspired by how you've, how you've done that. And that's just one leg of your business.

23:43like you are just on every stage on every podcast at every event i mean sometimes i'll see you like it's like a james warmore event and i'm sitting there in the crowd and i'm like girl like you're killing it you're killing it tell me what i always have to tell people is when we're talking about cultivating evangelists right because this is the point the point of this conversation is to serve other people and actually get super tactile is when you know you have an evangelist as a ceo as an entrepreneur, as a brand builder, it's going to be very important that they know they're different, that they know they're special.