How to Know if You Need a “Force Multiplier” and the Steps to Hiring One with Adam Hergenrother and Hallie Warner

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0:37Welcome to the Jasmine Star Show. Today, we are talking about a lot of layers of leadership, but perhaps from a different angle. I am very excited because Adam and Hallie are like the ultimate duo. I have been stalking them. It's kind of like Batman and Robin. So let's just hit the ground running. Adam is the founder and Haley serves as a chief of staff and they help leaders today to become leaders of tomorrow. Now, if you're anything like me and you're wondering, chief of staff, isn't that not a term that we hear on West Wing? I didn't even know what a chief of staff was. Honest to God, hand to heaven to like two years ago.

1:14I was like, they exist in the business world. So we're going to start right there, Adam and Hallie, whoever wants to hit the ground running before we actually get into the frameworks and talking about developing leaders and becoming another dynamic duo. Can you describe chief of staff and what their role is in an organization? I'm actually curious to see who is actually Batman and who's Robin. I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait. So, so Adam, you're CEO. So you're clearly Robin, you know, like, Yeah, exactly. I'm going to definitely identify more as a Batman. But I love it. I love it. As most of chiefs of staff do from what I have learned.

1:48So that's probably a great place to start because people are hearing this and like, wait a minute, a CEO can be Robin. And I'm like, that is my ambition, baby. That is my ambition. So let's start crafting this terminology of chief of staff. Sure, sure. So I started my career as an executive assistant, and that's kind of how my journey went from an executive assistant to a chief of staff. we talk about it in terms of the force multiplier very often because sometimes titles get a little tricky like my version of a chief of staff may actually operate as an executive assistant in another company and someone's executive assistant may actually operate as you know a deputy chief of staff at another organization so for us we usually use the term force multiplier to encompass this right-hand business partner to a ceo or a founder um the main difference between an ea and chief of staff is that the chief of staff is somebody who's going to be running alongside the leader and working on a future growth and strategy and special projects and usually helping lead and communicate across multiple divisions or organizations.

2:48Whereas an executive assistant is going to be handling more of the day-to-day immediate needs in support of that executive or that founder. Okay. So if I were to understand it correctly, it would be like the CEO and then just off to his or her kind of like sub left or right, it would be a chief of staff. And then below those two would be an EA either serving the chief of staff and or the CEO. Yeah, it can be sometimes the EA serves the founder directly alongside the chief of staff. In our case, our EA does report to me the chief of staff and then supports both of us. Okay, so let's break this down by an example because your girl your girl is special and I'm very slow sometimes.

3:28And I am not looking for a chief of staff, I'm looking for a force multiplier. We're going to get to all of that in a second. So I've done a lot of due diligence and homework because I'm like, oh, you two have cast a division for a future I didn't know existed. And so I definitely want to like tap more into there. But can you give us like a very granular example? Like, sure. So we get this idea, chief of staff helps the CEO or the founder bring it to life. Like, but what does it actually mean? Like, give us a real example here. Well, I'll give you a quick example from a perspective. A couple, about a month or so ago, we were having morale issues in our organization.

3:58And so I went to Hallie and I just said, hey, look, here are the seven bullet points that I want to make sure that we're reiterating to all of our leaders to make sure they're distributing that throughout the rest of the organization. And so Hallie basically took the thoughts that I had and then also went back and triangulated with other leaders to make sure that we weren't missing any other points that needed to be included. She was also doing, is this best delivered in terms of an email or is Adam best served to do this in a video or live in front of as many people as we can get into a Zoom?

4:26And so Hallie put together basically all of that information, triangulating all behind the scenes to come back and give me and saying, hey, I think we need to do it basically both ways. In fact, I want you to actually do one in a video and we're going to follow it up by an email. Here's some talking points. Here's a draft of what the email looks like. Let me know what tweaks you want to make. And so from there, then I was able to make some tweaks. We kind of agreed on what we wanted to agree on because Hallie will fight back with me, which is awesome on points that I want to make. and then I went out there and then delivered it, right?

4:53Didn't deliver the video, deliver the email and then did some follow-up as well too. So the chief of staff really is an extension of who you are in terms of being able to magnify what a leader does, which I think there's some real, three really important things a leader can do. We can get to that later. And I think the chief of staff really is just an extension or a by-product of what you're working on, just different components of that project. Instead of waiting to talk about those three components of leadership, I think it would tie in dovetail really nice right now to start off there. Yeah, I think the three most important things a leader must do is number one is cast a vision.

5:26And we hear that often. But the reason I think a lot of people put that they say it's number one, but it's really not. It's like they say it to say it to say it so that it feels good to them and that the rest of the organization knows they cast a vision. But the reality is that, look, if you're running east looking for a sunset, I don't care how many wonderful people you hire, how hard you're working, how fast you're swimming. You're just not going to accomplish the goal. So everyone needs to understand where they're going. And I think this day and age too, everyone wants to know that they're working for a purpose.

5:53They're working towards contribution. And I think having a very strong vision that you can carry out and that the rest of the people can fall, I don't say fall in line with, but can get behind to support. It allows everyone to understand the impact that they're making in the organization. So that's what a vision does. That's got to be number one is people have to know where the organization is going at all times. I think over the last couple of years, a lot of leaders in industries didn't need to be as strong in their vision. I will tell you, for instance, in our world, I got lackadaisical on it because, I mean, we were printing cash left and right.

6:25It was everything was there. It was easy to kind of go through there. And so I kind of allowed it to be like, well, I guess I don't really need to do this. And then all of a sudden, when things start to slip or shift to different ways, all of a sudden you realize how lackadaisical you have been as a leader and need to re-combat that and really re-instill the vision. particularly during tough economic times, whether that's, you know, that could be some organizations or industries are going through it at different times. But when it gets more challenging, understanding almost on a day-to-day basis where you're going needs to be iterated to the organization.

6:56So that's number one. Number two is that you have to be able to provide clarity and direction. So if you were to fly into Austin and you were trying to get to a hotel, imagine your Google Maps didn't work, right? All of a sudden you were in there and you were trying to take out a paper map, right? And try to figure out how to get to the hotel. I mean, think about how much energy and time usage and anxiety or nervousness would occur trying to figure out how to get to a hotel. By the way, side note, we used to do that like 15 years ago, actually. But anyway, so like there's not any Ubers around, whatever it is.

7:24And so, I mean, I live in Vermont, there is no Uber, especially in Stowe. And so you just try to figure out where you're going. That's why that direction and clarity, people want to know the steps of how to get to the mountain. A leader's job, if you were to summit a mountain, right, they want to know that you're going to the top, but they also want to know, Hey, when you get to this 2000 foot elevation, you're gonna have to turn left. And by the way, it's going to get really foggy up there and you should probably be prepared to put this jacket on. We get there. You're going to need this tent when you get above this, because it's going to be there.

7:50You're also should be prepared for additional water. Once you get past that, cause it's going to take you an extra two days to get up there. And by the way, you should be prepared to go right. When you get to that particular forest. I mean, that's, they want to know the general idea of how to get to a place to where they're going in organization. In fact, I think that the difference, and we'll get into number three, is in wildly successful organizations versus organizations that are just marginally successful is how strong the vision is, how clear the direction is. The clarity is that everybody, especially when you have thousands of people, right?

8:19Like how do you make sure everyone is feeling that? And then the third most important thing a leader must do is make quality decisions every single day. I think hands down, the most important thing a leader can do is make one to two top high level quality decisions every single day. And I believe that is if you just make a 10 % better decision every single day, think about the geometric difference between where your organization is now and where it is in five years. And that's the difference when somebody starts off and you're the same page and you're building and scaling, building and scaling and building.

8:50And then all of a sudden you just go straight up in the next two to three years and you hit this geometric growth. it's accumulation of these wonderful decisions that leadership and leaders are making. Remember, a leadership's work product is decisions. I mean, I don't actually really do anything except for make decisions, right? Which is like the triangulation information, but that becomes a leader's work product. So when you wake up every day as a leader, whether you own a company or leading a division, it's do I know the vision of the company or am I setting the vision of the company? Does my company or does my division know the direction and clarity of it?

9:21And am I making quality decisions every single day. And that should be your goal before 10 o 'clock every single morning. Hell yes. Okay, so somebody's listening and they ask, wait, but how do I know it's a quality decision? Like what are your qualifications for what is quantified as a quality decision? Have you ever heard of the Pareto principle before? Yeah, 80-20, baby. Yeah, exactly, yeah. So I think majority of people - Oh, wait, hold on, but time out. For anybody who's listening, Pareto's law states that 80 % of X is caused by 20 % of Y. So for example, 80 % of accidents are caused by 20 % of drivers.

9:5780 % of the content you see on Instagram is produced by 20 % of the creators. That's Pareto's law. So Adam, sorry. Wonderful example there. So in Pareto's principle, I think the majority of leaders are actually making the majority of their decisions of the 80 % instead of the 20%. Ooh, say more. So first people need to understand what level decision is this? And again, most people get caught up in trying to make and put energy because there's only a certain amount of cognitive ability that you have as a leader every single day. And so most people are making decisions around 80 % that really doesn't matter equally.

10:31Everything matters, just not equally, right? Like I'm sure your kid, I don't know if you have, do you have kids, by the way? I do, I have a daughter, she's three and a half. So your daughter matters, and I'm sure you would say that my daughter matters. But the reality is, is your kids probably matter more to you, and my kids probably matter a little bit more to me in that way. So everything matters just not equally. And the same thing holds true in business. And what I see so many individuals or owners or leaders doing is making so many decisions around the 80 % doesn't matter. So number one, if you know where you're going, vision, if you know the clarity and direction it is, number three, the decision that you're making should actually come easier.

11:03And understanding leadership, I think that most people are not that they're unwilling to make the decision. They don't know what decision to make because they're not clear on number one and number two. Oh, dang. Yeah. Yeah, we could say that it's harder to make decisions without having a vision. And without a vision, we don't have directions. So if you're struggling and knowing what the decisions are, if you go back to step number one, create a vision, it becomes a lot easier. Yes. Well said. Thanks. Okay, so let's drill this down a little bit. First, we clarified the force multiplier. And even beyond that, the role between chief of staff and a founder, CEO.

11:44So now that we've been going along these things and we've talked about the three principles of leadership and then we talked about making quality decisions, there could be a small subset of people. And this is where I want to start at the base level and then build up for people who are like, I want to work towards that, but I'm not there yet. So Adam, and I'm not necessarily talking about one, two or three. They're actually talking about when would I introduce a chief of staff? At what point did you realize in your business that you wanted to bring Helly in? How many years? What did it look like?

12:11What were your pressure points? I started, what's that? I was like, can I just jump in and add one thing before you tell the story? Please. Oh, please. The one thing I wanted to mention is that not, because I do think we should make some clarity around this, that not all founders and entrepreneurs need a chief of staff. Do I believe that most founders need a four small supplier? Yes. But that can come in several different forms. very often it will come as an executive assistant first, and then maybe they will eventually grow into needing a chief of staff, but I would not necessarily recommend that that first hire is indeed a chief of staff.

12:44Ooh, I love this. This is getting crunchy. Okay. Now, Adam, did you say, I know that Hallie came in as an executive assistant. Were you looking specifically for an executive assistant? Yeah. So when I, when I first started my first business in 2006, I, I'm inherently lazy, um, for anything else that anybody else can do. Like if it comes to exercise or meditation or journaling or inner work. Like I am the most laser focused person because nobody else can do it. But I don't know. I have this problem that the minute somebody else can do something, it's like, I have paralysis around it. Like I'll come up with the idea.

13:16And then like, I just can't do it. It's like, I won't, it'll sit there until unless I'm the only one that can do it. So when I first got into business, I literally went out there. I had no idea what I was doing and no idea how to hire. I was like 22 years old. And I just started hiring people to start doing things that I didn't really do that I just wouldn't do. And I was creating, I was that, that traditional, like creating sales and I was really good at sales and just creating all this kind of chaos, if you will. And so I, I literally went through like probably six or seven different, I just called them general administrative assistants at the time.

13:46And then a couple of years into it, I started getting some relative training in it and I made an executive assistant to hire. And it's actually a funny story. I think it's worth sharing. I ended up hiring Hallie from a Craigslist ad back when Craigslist was actually producing really quality candidates. And this was in 2009. I think we started interviewing 2010 when she came in and I had actually hired her for, I think a marketing assistant is what it was. And I was going to move my current assistant that I had up to an executive assistant and Hallie was going to be a marketing assistant and ended up hiring Hallie.

14:18And I went in the interview. I could clearly tell that she was, you know, her response time back to me, you know, the energy she brought into the interview. So I ended up hiring her. She came in. Okay, wait, pause, pause, pause. I am a natural born storyteller and I can't get past this point of Hallie's perspective of going on Craigslist and seeing a job listing as a marketing assistant. Hallie, can you fill in the gaps for us? You see this job listing, you apply for it. And one of the things that Adam had said was he really liked your timeliness and your responses. Can you put us in the shoes?

14:49So I am literally a founder who is on the hunt for a good executive assistant. what are some of the things that you are doing that's really like lighting up Adam's brain? Oh, good question. Well, because he was in real estate, I mean, we've since branched down to other industries and I was very, very interested in real estate. And so he, of course, that attracted me initially to the job opportunity. Then once I was there, I, he was already successful. So he already had a very successful real estate business. Again, since then, we've done many, many more things, but I was attracted to the success.

15:25I knew that I wanted to align myself with somebody who had some sort of proven success. I mean, again, you were very big fish in a small-ish pond. Yeah. In a very, very small pond, but I was living in a small pond. So I was like, okay, if he's the best, then I want to go work with the best. And so in just the way he was also dressed, I mean, these things do, which is really funny. But at the time he was in, I think a three-piece suit with the pockets there. And I was like, you can't find this anywhere in this, you know, in Vermont. And I wanted to be working with somebody who was highly successful, was going places, spoke the language of leadership and was demonstrating success.

16:06So I'm a very career oriented, career driven person. So that immediately attracted me to the opportunity. Got it. Okay. So it's the whole package. It's a success. It's the leadership. It's even like the visual representation of what the business and brand can become. And then Adam, on your end, you're getting responses from Heli. And when you say they're responsive and when you say they're thoughtful, like what are two characteristics that I could start looking for when I see like a qualified candidate come in? So wonderful question. Way to fill in the gap here. Thank you for doing that. Number one is just the response time on email.

16:40That's something that, I mean, I'm incredibly impatient when I'm slow enough to slow down. But then once we decide to go, I'm incredibly impatient. So for Hallie, for Hallie, it was it was her response time back to me matched mine, which at that time was high. I couldn't really find anybody that matched that level of intensity that I brought to the business world, specifically as an employee. And so that got my attention right there. And she showed up 15 minutes early. Again, I was at that time I was in a three piece suit. I wore a suit for probably 10, 12, 13 years of my life. And that I mean, that literally was she was dressed up like that, too.

17:16And so, again, that was all part of the culture that we had. So we were mirroring and matching there, you know, and then she spoke the language of leadership as well. She actually also had growth. So you can see that she really asked about growth and she was very organized. Her responses were very well back to me. She had done her homework, by the way, which these are just fundamental things. Like if somebody is coming in for an executive assistant position or chief of staff or force multiplier and they haven't done any homework on you, given this day and age that we live in, of least something.

17:44to me, it's just kind of like, you know, maybe you get lucky and hire somebody that's not there. But I mean, it takes 15 minutes to go pull up a particular founder that you're about to go work for and just get an understanding. I was interviewing a high level C-suite executive the other day and not for an executive assistant, but this individual had listened to our podcast. He had already got our book. He had a highlighted section of the book and showing it to me just, and not because anybody asked him because he's just spoke the language of leadership, right? So those are the things that you want to be looking for if you want to attract yourself to a high level leader like that.

18:16That makes sense? It makes a ton of sense. So doing research beforehand, timely responses, matching the culture, even the visual branding of the organization and the level of intensity is mirroring the founder that you will be working for. Yes. Okay. Now I'm assuming, I don't know, we kind of left on a cliffhanger. The marketing assistant was moved to the ea position and heli came in as the marketing assistant So then what happened? Yeah, so about two weeks into this I hadn't spoken to them at all about this or individually And I called them both into my office and i'm like, you know, i'm not really sure what's going to happen here But i'm pretty sure these people are in the wrong seats So I had them both come in and they're sitting I remember sitting they're sitting in my corner office And i'm sitting there and I look at them i'm like, hey, look i'm prepared to whatever's going to happen here is going to happen, but I think you're both in the wrong position.

19:11And I just stopped. And then I let the awkwardness for a second go. They both looked at each other and they go, yeah, we agree. And then it was done. Like it was literally like they hadn't talked about it either. So it's another good leadership lesson when you're, when, you know, your EQ is a leader, right? You just kind of seeing things. And look, I think every leader has the ability to do that. They're just sometimes not confident to act on it. And if you're willing to let go of the outcome, even though you're willing to approach the conversation, but not personally trying to get anything from it, but trying to be the best for the organization, then I think you can't go wrong.

19:41And so that's literally what we just did. This is so good. Cause in my mind, I have like hunger games, music playing in the background and you think it's going to be like, may the odds be ever in your favor. And like, no, they're, they're both are like, cool. Yeah. You know, like, great. But I do have a question though. My spidey senses, is that marketing assistant still with the organization? What do you think? No, no, no. Allie cheated and she shook her head. So you So she couldn't say it like that. No, no, I didn't. Well, here's the thing. I prefaced it by my spidey senses because what happens is when you, from an outsider's perspective, when there is a leader on an upward path of mobility, the team that got you to that point most likely won't be the team to get you to the next point.

20:22And so that assistant immediately realized that he or she was outmatched. And once you go back, you realize this is it. It's either I stay a marketing assistant here or even work down because organization's moving up or I find my own path with a different organization where I might be a better fit. I actually took her and got her to another team that was starting to build their business. And I said, look, she's going to take you to about this level in production, this level in sales, this level in leadership capacity. And he's like, I don't care. He was brand new. So like, it was perfect for him because she had a lot of runway.

20:53She could work a year and a half, two years, maybe three years into it. He literally is like, we've hit that ceiling. You are perfectly dead on. And he transitioned her much slower than I did. But he eventually moved on from her. But there is something really brilliant and beautiful about that person knowing like then the more that that pattern exists, the better off here she is to find an organization, give themselves two or three years of runway, say that this is what the thing that I'm really good at. And instead of looking at as like a chink in their armor, now it's a power play. You come in, you give guarantees, you have results.

21:23Like to me, I'm like, you can make everything to your favor. And I think you just saw that early for this person. So I was gonna say she was way happier in that position. And yes, you absolutely much happier in that role than she would ever have been in the other one. Heck yes. Heck yes. OK, Adam, what were you going to say? I forget, but it was really good. Way to go, Hallie. Way to go. Yes, exactly. You see this? This happens all the time. Well, listen, listen, listen. Batman's got to speak every so often. Batman's got to utter words out into Gotham. OK, so if if if this is where we're at and then you start seeing these makings of her really stepping up and becoming your EA.

22:00there are people who are listening and they're kind of like saying, yes, kind of, sort of, what are markers from your, both of your perspectives I would love to know is when somebody needs a force multiplier, what are some of the key flags or indicators? Well, I think anybody that doesn't want to be a sole proprietor needs their next hire should be a force multiplier. And again, then you, however you qualify that, that could be in terms of a personal assistant as a force multiplier. That could be somebody as an executive assistant force multiplier, or that could be somebody that serves more of that chief of staff role as a force multiplier.