Lessons I Learned in Law School That Made Me A Better Entrepreneur

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0:39Welcome back to the Jasmine Starr Show, a place where we discuss business, mindset. And today, we're going to talk about the lessons I learned dropping out of law school, specifically the ones that made me a better entrepreneur. Now you're listening and you're like, Jasmine, I don't care you went to law school. No problem. I hardly care that I went to law school too. However, however, I learned a group of things that have really impacted the way I've shown up in business. And I want to share those with you because I think that they applied to you. So take them, learn them, use them, and then don't go to law school.

1:10I want to record this episode for a couple of reasons. Number one, I truly believe that one of the best ways to learn in your industry is to learn outside of your industry. Okay, should I say that again? The best ways to learn in your industry is to learn outside of your industry. And then you apply those lessons to your business and then you see how you could stay innovative and avoid just passing down the same old information. Two examples. For years, I went to a summit called Alt Summit and it was located in Salt Lake City. And this summit was for all intents and purposes, creatives, not creators, but creatives.

1:50These really attracted a lot of people who were blogging fashion, a lot of people who were making hand-sewn patterns, a lot of people who are making jewelry. And I didn't really understood what drew me to this summit, but I just knew I needed to be at the summit. And so I would be going and I'd be learning from people in industries, nothing like photography, nothing like writing and creating content, but the way that they were studying their industry, I was able to take the way that they were applying lessons and put it in my business. So I went, I think three or four years in a row. And normally this was held like in January in Salt Lake City, January, February, y 'all is like negative 37 degrees.

2:31And for this California girl to go consistently, and then I would do things like go to the mixers and the event sponsors parties. And I was just thinking, how do I learn things from people? I remember having one conversation specifically about somebody who made custom made checkers boards and what she was applying in her business towards her target demographic. And I thought to myself, I am learning a boatload here about how to create content that feels very specialized to people, even if I wasn't selling a physical product. That was just one conversation that I remember of many. Another convention I'm going to mention, it's called the Chia Convention.

3:07And this is a homeschool educators convention. And it would happen in Anaheim, California. And I remember going as a child with my mom, we were homeschooled. And then the older I got, there was no reason for me to go, but I just really enjoyed seeing how people were so passionate about the art of education. Now, people had a lot of different approaches and they were talking about the different ways that children learn. And then now as I'm adult, I just think to myself, yeah, those children who learned a certain way, they grow up to be adults who learn a certain way. So if I was learning these mechanisms of education as a child and then learning how I learned as a child, I have to be really empathetic and understanding of how other adults learn.

3:48And it empowered me to really change my approach and how I teach people different concepts. Okay. Number two. I mean, do you hear the two things, the two events that I'm citing as things that were outside of my industry? It was like one for like scrapbookers and people who made homemade patterns and the other for like homeschoolers. Y 'all, your girl is real cool. I got some swag. I mean, I'm probably the girl you see wearing kids in a knit sweater with a coonskin hat. That's how I roll y 'all. Okay. the second reason I wanted to record this podcast. There's somebody listening today who has dropped out of college, closed the doors to a business, decided to take a different path in life and everything in between.

4:28And I want that person, if that is you, I want you to know that the time wasn't wasted and nobody can take away the lessons that you learned. Go back and think about the hardest moments, the best moments, the saddest moments, the frustrating moments. Those were all lessons that added a tool to your arsenal to get to where you want to go next. I'm just right there. I'm going to leave that there. Everything that you went through is brought you to this moment. There is not a random reason you're listening to this podcast. Just I want you to come correct that do not pass go. Do not collect$200. Do not switch on over to a different podcast.

5:04If something I just said right now has resonated deeply with you, we're going to dive in. And the third reason is I want to record this because I truly believe that I wouldn't be the same entrepreneur if I didn't go through these lessons. And at the time I was going through them, I felt alone. I felt like a failure. I felt like an outsider. I felt like I didn't belong. I felt stupid. I felt less than. I felt like I had somehow like rigged the system to get in. So if you've ever felt like that on the inside of a room, welcome to the club. I think that this goes to show if you can start your business at the same time as somebody else, and yet they seem to be moving along faster, their past experiences and lessons contributed to their growth.

5:45You have no idea why they're making those decisions as quickly and fastly. Fastly? See, look at, like, I went to law school and I say fastly. How fastly they made it. Yeah, everything that they went through prepared them for that. So it's never fair or accurate to compare yourself or compare your business to somebody else's because whatever they went through in previous parts of their life has brought them here to today Oh, is your girl just coming in like the right brothers? Like i'm about to land this plane for the first time like Hang on to your hats ladies and gentlemen Okay So what i'm going to do first is name the five entrepreneurial lessons that I learned in law school And then we're going to dive into each one and my experience learning it But of course, this podcast is about you and I'll be sharing ways that you can apply them in your business as well.

6:29I should also mention again, for the record, I dropped out of law school. I used to be embarrassed of this fact, but now I take deep pride in making a nonsensical, courageous decision. I was humiliated having to tell people that I was no longer in law school. I was humiliated telling people that I walked away from a scholarship to UCLA law school. I was humiliated telling people that I was accepted to the University of Chicago and Berkeley and East Coast schools, like amazing, amazing law schools. And I said no to them because I was going to go to UCLA. You see UCLA gave me a scholarship. It just they just really want me there.

7:08What can I say? And then dropping out. Did it not just seem like a squandered blessing? Did it not just seem like a girl who had no idea what she wanted or what she was doing? or maybe just maybe did it seem like a girl who trusted her intuition and said, I know it doesn't make sense. I'm going to make this decision anyway, because you and I are both given the opportunity to apply a belief to a fact, a belief to a fact fact. The sky is gray. The belief you might have, it's going to rain. It's going to be terrible. It's going to be cold. the belief I might have wow I get to wear an extra sweater and I'm prepared and there's air in my lungs and my legs are working and I get to walk same facts different belief fact I dropped out of law school the belief I had for a long time was I was a failure I was stupid I squandered I was afraid I didn't belong fact I dropped out of law school that was a very courageous decision trust your ambition, trust your intuition.

8:20You did something that other people wouldn't do. There have been other people who have completed law school, taken the bar, got a job at a firm, ended up hundreds of thousand dollars of debt only to realize later they never wanted it to begin with. So Jasmine, what decision did you make and what belief do you have towards this fact? Oh, are we off to the races? Like, are we just having a real conversation? I sure hope so, because I did not come to play. The five skills that I learned from these law school lessons are analytical thinking, effective communication, time management, attention to detail, and problem solving.

8:53So we're going to start them one by one, and we're going to get into the T, starting with lesson number one, to think analytically. This is one of the best lessons that I still use in business today, whether it's making smart decisions or assessing potential challenges. So in law school, we used analytical thinking to break down complex problems. We had to understand risk and we had to think critically. And so prior to going to law school and many of us who have not gone through like legal training, we often like to think that the law is black and white, right? There is right and there is wrong.

9:27But a good lawyer invites the jury to see a shade of gray, a chance to interpret the law differently in light of evidence, the changing nature of the world or if the law still makes sense given like the state of the state or the state of the country. Not all laws stay the same. Things outside of the law can and should change the law. And a good lawyer presents a case to have the jury see it differently. I loved this. I loved in law school that there was this pure, undistilled, beautiful emphasis on facts, not emotion. And so oftentimes I make fun of myself, you know, here on the podcast or on videos or even in my family, I make fun of myself and I'm like, listen, I have a twin sister and she got the emotional gene and I got the logic gene.

10:17And it's kind of like funny-ish, but not really. This was not honed until my 20s when I was in law school. And I realized that oftentimes we use our emotions as facts. But your emotions are never facts, baby. Your emotions can change on a dime. Just because I might feel a certain way, that doesn't matter. We were challenged to find facts that supported our stance, not adhere to emotions or like what we felt was right at the time. That does not hold up in court. It doesn't hold up in law school. And guess what? It doesn't hold up in business either. You want to feel a certain way. So I'm feeling so depressed about my lack of growth.

11:00But if there was a fact that the rate of growth in your industry for your state of business is 2 % and you're kicking it at 1.7%, your feeling about your lack of growth is in fact false. Because baby, you ride on average, even if average doesn't feel right. Now, you could apply analytical thinking to your business by challenging yourself to prioritize facts over feelings. Now, I have examples of how you can do this. Okay. First was number one, with purchases. I want you to avoid making financial purchases that just feel necessary without taking the time to find out the ROI, like the return on investment, without taking the time to assess the potential risk or where the funds would be better allocated.

11:43I don't want you feeling like you need a laptop, feeling like you need a new phone, feeling like you need a new camera, light, tripod, book, encyclopedias. I don't care what you think you feel like you need. What I need you to do is say, there is a fact of buying me a laptop. Will I make more in my business because I have a newer laptop? If the answer is no, it will just make it a little bit faster. Then the question becomes, how long can you use your laptop? Do you need a new car? Do you need a new car? Because is your car currently not working? Can you not get from point A to point B? And you're like, oh, Jasmine, the air conditioner is terrible.

12:22I have an oxidized hood. Jasmine, I lost a bumper. Not a bumper. No, a bumper is a little dramatic. What are those like those things that cover your wheels? What is that? Dang it. I lost a hubcap. A hubcap. Thank you, brain. Thank you, sweet, beautiful brain that brought that to me. Like if you're saying, Jasmine, I lost a hubcap, baby, buy a hubcap. Don't get a new car. What is the ROI on that. I have learned to taking business decisions around facts and applying a number to a investment. If that number is not higher than the investment, it's not time for me to make it. It must be a necessity.

12:54Okay. Number two. Oh, people would be annoyed listening to this podcast right now. They're like, dang it. I listened to the wrong podcast on the wrong day. Or did you listen to the right podcast on the right day? Remember the same fact, different belief. Okay. Number two. Um, I think I'm kind of like a little bit in like a jokey joke mood because I don't want going to talk about this one. Number two, letting go of team members. When thinking about letting go of a team member because of finances, or maybe your business needs are changing, or your business ambitions are changing, or your business trajectory is changing, I want you to think analytically.

13:28Evaluate the financial impact and make a decision based on facts, not feelings. Remember, your job isn't to be liked. Your job as a CEO isn't to be everybody's friend. It's not even to be the most like CEO. Your job is to make the best decision for your business. Period. That's it. I mean, I know it's easier said than done, but by relying on analytical thinking, you ensure that your decision is based on factual information rather than being influenced by emotional reactions. This morning, I had a conversation with a fellow CEO and she had decided that she was going to drive down her revenue. She wasn't going to be pursuing growth this year because she was re-strategizing what she was doing in the business.

14:13And then we had a conversation around how she wasn't going to downsize her team. And I was like, huh, if you are intentionally downsizing the growth of your business and not downsizing your team, you're going to be directly impacting just your profitability. And we're talking about tens of thousands or maybe hundreds of thousands of revenue because she didn't want to let people go. And she said, do you understand that by shrinking on the business, what we're actually truncating is the older part of the business. The employees that have been with me the longest would have to be the people who are let go.

14:50And she's like, it really personally affects me. And I know that it wasn't easy to say, but our job isn't to make easy decisions. Our job is to make the best decision for the business and that sucks and it's hard and we feel devastated but your job, the caliber and the quality of what you do is directly related to the difficult decisions that you can make in a timely fashion. Okay, we're going to move on. So lesson one was analytical thinking and lesson number two is effective communication. Now, lawyers must communicate persuasively and clearly. This skill is so important in business because like negotiations, client interactions, presenting ideas to investors, clients presenting ideas to your team.

15:42Now, a technique that I like to use for clear communication is something that I kind of took a twist on from law school. In law school, they practice the Socratic method and the Socratic method involves question, like you're questioning commonly held beliefs and assumptions to encourage critical thinking. For example, a professor might ask students to consider why they believe something is true or why they hold that certain opinion. And let me tell you, you couldn't say, because I feel like it, because it's true, because it was raised this way, because it says it. And then you can't cite a particular religion because not everybody adheres to that type of religion.

16:21If you wanted somebody to understand your point of view, you needed to use facts and law. And if we're doing this in our business, we can't just say, oh, why do you feel that way? Because I do. No, no, no. I need to clearly communicate that to the team, to investors, to clients. Now, this allows people to challenge their assumptions and think critically to find their own solutions and even lead to mindset shifts. This is the thing that we're called to do as professionals. At least I believe so. And this is something that I learned in law school. Now, another technique I like to use is using as few words as possible.

16:56Now, I know you're listening and you're rolling your eyes because it's my podcast and all I do is use words. Right. But who I am on this podcast is very different than when I am in CEO mode. Like the strongest arbitrators and lawyers aren't those who use the most words. The strongest are those who use their words strategically. now when you get to the main point faster you keep your audience wrapped they're paying attention fully and then the more you words you use the more convolated you're convolated girl girlfriend boyfriend my friend friends convolated y 'all this and this is why i dropped out of law school um or actually maybe i apply a different belief maybe i could be so compelling that i could petition Merriam-Webster dictionary to add convolated instead of convoluted.

17:50Okay. So the more words you use, the more convoluted your point becomes. Now I know people, I'm going to rub people the wrong way, but the most commonly used phrase I use in meetings. Okay. I'm going to rub you the wrong way. If somebody presents me with something, the thing I say the most is, can you please say it again, but this time use less words? Like legitimately, I know you had a point and it's a great point, but you lost me in all the words. Tell me what you need to say in the shortest amount of words possible. Another thing I say is, can you say that again, but like I'm five? Are you offended by that?

18:25You might be, but I'm telling you, I hone this skill to be like, less is more, less is more, get to it. And I also love front loading a case. So if somebody on the team, this is another thing, like when you are arguing a legal case in court, nobody's like, let me tell you a story one day back in November. No, of course not. They will stand in front of a jury or a judge and say, your honor, he is innocent. So you start immediately with what your point is. I freaking love that because then after the main point, you have to use all these facts to like get to your point. Like in business, can you just freaking start off with your main point?

18:58What are you saying I should do? Then follow it up with facts. I know, I know, but let me tell you all, it works. And part of the reason why it works is because when you can use facts, I'm not dealing with opinions or hunches. I am using facts. And when people use facts to argue their point, I'm more drawn to it because it's a fact. There's history. There's data. There's analytics. Now, in law school, citing case law was the practice, right? So the reason why I believe this person's innocent is because based on this case and this case and this case, that's called case law. But in business, it's really good to use examples of other business owners in similar situations to see, hey, what did they do?

19:38What did they say? how did they act to get a favorable outcome? So when you're in business, you could use like business law, like I'm going to cite business law. I saw this person do this one thing and get this favorable outcome. Therefore, I want to apply the same logic or the same facts to my business. So how can you apply these to your business? Well, you could use a democratic method on yourself. Why do I think this way? Prove my point. What facts am I using? Or perhaps in sales conversations, like you want to encourage potential clients to dig deeper into their concerns and come up with their own solutions or come up with like clarity on why they're saying no.

20:12Like, are you saying no because you're not certain? Or are you saying no because it's a no? Like this is shaping the side of your brain that applies logic instead of feeling like you can use phrases like, oh, can you tell me more? Or why might you feel that way? Well, what is the plan to reach your goals? Could you elaborate on that? These are all active things that I have been using and learning ever since law school. So we covered analytical thinking, effective communication. And the third lesson I learned in law school is time management. Okay. As you can guess, the workload in law school is and was incredibly intense.

20:46And so it taught me a whole new level and way to manage my time efficiently. This began the practice of me waking up early. And most importantly, this is the time in my life when I chose discipline. Now I wouldn't say I was a disciplined person then, but it was a muscle that I began to form. And then I began to focus on it. And it was proof that when I set my mind to something, I could do it. So it started very small. I realized that my mind was better in the morning. I realized that my hours in the morning were a heck of a lot more productive than they were at night. So if I knew that about me, and that was my circadian rhythm, well, then I was like, how small can I start?

21:31So I started waking up 15 minutes earlier. And I did that not every day. I did it every other day. And then I woke up earlier like every day, 15 minutes, just 15 minutes. And then I started adding falling 15 minutes earlier to sleep. So I'll be falling asleep 15 minutes earlier every few days. And then all of a sudden the two coalesced. And so I found myself every day waking up 15 minutes earlier and going to bed 15 minutes earlier. And then slowly I started expanding when I started making time for sleep, but also for my waking hours. And this was the first time in my life ever that I was aware of the discipline I was choosing.

22:13A couple of days ago, I was having a conversation with my sister and my sister said, oh, well, it's just that you're disciplined. And I looked at her and I thought, I'm not disciplined more than the average person. and she'll say, well, you are because you can. And then she cited a few things. And I said, as much discipline as it takes for me to say no to pizza every night and instead choose a salad, it's the same amount of discipline that I'm exerting because it takes discipline to order the pizza every night. And it takes discipline to order the salad every night. It takes discipline to choose working out.

22:50And it takes just as much discipline to stay sitting on the couch. When people ask me, I'm like, oh, what's your favorite TV show? And I'm like, I don't know. I'm not really watching TV these days. And people are like, oh, she's so disciplined. Really? Because it sure takes a hell of a lot of discipline to sit on your couch and watch Netflix for an entire series. That's discipline. We all have discipline. We're applying that discipline in different areas. Own it. That was the first time in my life that I was like, I am choosing a different form of discipline. I began time blocking during law school.

23:22I just realized I can't get it all done. I need to know where every single minute is going. That's when time blocking. And then I stuck to that timeline no matter what. I use this practice still to this day. I set a schedule and I stick to that schedule. Now people are like, yeah, but what happens when things come up? I know. I have a husband who works and lives at home with me. I have a toddler who lives and works like work. What does she do? I mean, she like runs the house basically, but like she's at home. There are things that happen in my day. And so then what I'm doing is I'm padding my day for unexpected needs, interruptions, extra book breaks.

23:56So I feel confident that I can execute on my daily to-do list because I've padded it. Like I'm like, okay, add another 15 minutes, add another 15 minutes here. And then all of a sudden at the end of the day, I'm not being like, man, I missed out on 30 minutes worth of work. I'm a failure. I'm less than no, no, no. It was just, that was what I can handle in a day considering my life. And as my daughter gets older, I might not have to pad my day so much. I flex as my life changes. It was at this time that I also began watching how other people created time by sharing information. I started off this podcast by saying, um, I felt like an outsider.

24:30I was very alone. I was a loner in law school. It was very clear. I was a lone wolf. I hung out on my own. I was okay with it for the most part, but it was because I was thinking very small. So we all were assigned the same amount of reading, but because I was a loner in law school, I did all that reading on my own, but I saw other people divide the reading and then they would meet in groups and they would distill their portions of what they read and they would learn it together. They had it right. They weren't just saving time, but they were teaching each other how to think about the law. They were sharpening each other's learning curve.

25:07I was doing it alone. And I think it's the same in business. When you surround yourself with people who are in similar stages of growth, you share what you know, and then you shorten the learning curve. So what I have learned from the beginning, like when I really started growing my business is I needed to get inside of a community. I needed to get into small groups. I needed to quote, unquote, divide the reading and teach each other. You know what I'm saying? I see this happening so often on the inside of social curator. There are groups of people who just say, okay, well, for this month, we're going to stay committed to each other about this one thing.

25:38Or they set up their own zoom calls. Like exactly. That's right. That's what you do. You take ownership in finding your people. So you're not a lone wolf travel in a pack. You can do this in business by surrounding yourself with entrepreneurs who are in the same season of business as you, or maybe like a couple steps ahead. Um, I do this by joining masterminds, but I understand that's an investment. Not everybody is there at the time. So find a community that you can do for free. I promise you they exist. You just have to look for them. I also want to challenge you to decide on an area of your business where you would like to be more disciplined.