Running a Business While Battling Depression

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0:32I can't wait to see you there. I'm Jade, COO of Jasmine Starr and Social Curator, and we're about to listen to a conversation that Jasmine had with Amy Porterfield on her podcast, The Amy Porterfield Show, about something most entrepreneurs don't talk about enough, depression. In this episode, Jasmine and Amy share their real experiences from the pressures of business to the personal battles they've faced with mental health. If you've ever felt alone in your struggles, this is the reminder that you're not alone. Let's dive in. When I called you and said, let's talk about depression on my podcast.

1:05What did you think? What did you feel? What went through your head? Well, you and I both know, and I've said this a thousand times before, whenever you ask me to do something, it's always yes. Like when Amy asks anything, I'm like, yeah, of course. Duh. Like, why are we asking? Let's move forward. And so when she's like, hey, I have a question, my knee jerk reaction and answer was like, well, yes, of course. And all of a sudden she finished sentence and I was like, whoa, whoa there. what are we talking about and how is this going to look and I started feeling a lot of resistance and whenever I feel resistance the thing that I always have to do is take a step back and ask myself why am I feeling this way what are the stories that I'm telling myself and then make a decision based on number one if it will get me closer to my purpose and number two if it will help people.

1:55And regardless of how I feel about it emotionally, if the answers are both affirmative in that, then I know that I have my answer regardless of how it makes me feel. And then also I had just before that conversation had read a quote by Elie Wiesel. I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever humans endured suffering. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. And when I read that, it was like I automatically knew that my silence was going to impede progress and that my silence was going to encourage people to wear a mask or to not talk about really difficult things in their lives.

2:38And I just felt, well, Amy and I talk about it openly. Why can't we invite other people who might be interested in the conversation to have a healthy, positive, creative open non-stigmatized conversation about what it means to run a business to do it with other people even when the days are hard ah so good so true and so this is exactly why i wanted jasmine on the show i knew that she'd be really open and honest about this one thing she said while we were talking about it before i started recording is she said i have to be 100 open and 100 honest about this topic and of course i would expect nothing less of jasmine but i love that she like made the declaration.

3:17So that's what today is about an open, honest conversation. So I wanted to kind of start and just share with all of you that I have definitely, definitely struggled with depression throughout most of my college years and then into starting this online business. So a lot of, a lot of it came up in my corporate years and then it really moved its way into the years that I started this business. And for me, what depression has looked like is that there have been mornings that I have not wanted to get out of bed and felt like almost like I couldn't get out of bed, that the sadness and the black cloud, that's how I've always explained it, has just been lingering over me.

3:59And when I would tell my mom, I'd say, mom, I feel I would confide in her a lot about this. I feel like there is a black cloud over me, but the problem that I really struggle with is there's no reason why it should be there. I would look at my family and my home and my son, Kate, and everything about our lives and think everything is so good. I have a beautiful husband, a beautiful life, and I am sad all the time. And so I felt a lot of shame around it, a lot of embarrassment around it. And it really came up a lot in my first few years of starting this business. That's where I felt it most. But it didn't start there.

4:38Like I said, it started mostly in college. I got on meds because of it. So my doctor prescribed medication for my depression and that really helped a lot. But then I thought I shouldn't take medication. So I got off of it. There's a stigma with it. And I know Jasmine's going to talk about her story with that. And I love what she talks about in terms of looking at medication and depression. And so I got off and on of medication for many, many years up until a few years ago. And I told Jasmine that now I don't struggle with it nearly as much. Of course, everybody has depression here and there, depending on what's happening in their life.

5:15But I don't have those moments anymore of I can't get out of bed or those moments of everything feels like despair and sadness. And so I've worked on it throughout the years. But I also wanted to talk to somebody that still has to deal with this more often than I do. So I I wanted you to hear from a few different people. And so Jasmine, I want you to talk about your experience with depression. Well, I should probably start by just really reaffirming, affirming and explaining, clarifying that everybody struggles with depression. However, there is a situational depression. You know, everybody has bad days or a series of bad things that happen.

5:54And there's clinical depression and clinical depression has to do more with the chemistry makeup of one's brain. And I have to clarify, I am not a trained medical professional. I will not be giving any medical advice. All I can do is speak my truth. And if there is a kernel that resonates with you or your journey, that the hope, that the reason why I want to stand up is that other people say, I hear her, I identify with that, and it's giving me hope in spite of maybe not having all of the answers. so my I guess story my journey with depression I feel like I had a really great childhood really wonderful amazing supportive parents who did their absolute best and for a myriad of unexplainable reasons or explainable reasons I kind of struggled my first bout of depression when I was around 25 years old I was in law school and I think I kept on pushing it aside like my mom has brain cancer I'm in law school.

6:51There's a lot of pressure on myself. It's okay to feel this way. And I kind of pushing it off and pushing it off, pushing it off, which I think is a pattern in a story in my life. I just continue to push through things instead of giving myself the permission to take a step back and really analyze what's going on. But I'm getting to the end. I'm getting to progress. So put a little pin in that notion of taking a step back and saying, what am I feeling and why am I feeling this way? Instead of just saying, well, I'm going to continue pushing forward. So put a pin there, 25 years old. And I realized that I am so sad.

7:25I am not sleeping. I'm wildly stressed out. I am working out like a mad woman because when my life is spinning out of control, I control the things I can control. I started controlling excessively what I ate, how much I exercised, how much I studied. And I think it manifested in like really a deterioration of my health. Like my hair was falling out. I wasn't sleeping. I didn't feel like I was in like a really good headspace. And so I was at UCLA Law School. And part of being a student is you get access to UCLA Medical Center, which is pretty incredible. I made an appointment. I walked into the doctor's office and I didn't walk in saying I had depression.

8:05I don't think I can even like articulate those words. I just kept on saying like, I'm really sad. I'm really, really, really sad. And when I listed all the reasons why I was sad, which is the reasons I just listed, the doctor said, okay, this is indicative of something a little bit more. My first suggestion would be medication. And so prescribed medication, got it filled. And I have a very open relationship with my family. I talked to my dad and I kind of explained like, this is what's going on. And I think in retrospect, which is what he would probably say and admit now was that we both didn't handle the conversation the way that we should have only because maybe, maybe, and I don't want to put any words in his mouth, but maybe the conversation around depression was a little stigmatized.

8:54Perhaps it's not something that we really spoke about specifically like in Latino culture, in first generation American culture coming, we were like really poor. So it was this whole kind of like new navigation of what it meant. And my father and mother both expressed their desires that their daughter wouldn't be on medication. And for me to try to do my best coping and understanding that there were certain things that everybody goes through funks and stuff like that. And we ended the conversation there. And probably a few months into the medication, I realized that it wasn't having an effect, that I was still really, really sad.

9:30And I felt like that gray cloud that Amy describes, so apropos, like that's the perfect description. And in addition to me feeling that way, I felt cloudy. I felt so much more sleepy. I didn't feel like I was who I was. I felt like I was a different person. And as a result of that, I stopped taking the medication, but that led to like a cycle of beating myself up. Like, come on, like who doesn't medication work for? Like, who are you? Like, really? Like, are you that much of a mess that this medication is not going to work for you? And so again, it just led to another cycle of beating myself up.

10:05And when I look back at that situation, I realize in retrospect, years after it's been over a decade since kind of had that first kind of like reckoning with what it meant and what it means is that what I did in that moment was a pattern that I had created for myself starting distinctly when I was 13 years old. And that pattern was to beat myself up. and what I didn't know then which is what I know now is the way that we speak to ourselves has the possibility to amplify and or not and or diminish emotionally how we feel about something and so I think that the biggest takeaway years later giving myself the permission to talk openly about it with my friends and my family was that when we have the ability to come out and ask for help when we have the ability to admit we don't have the answers and we have the ability to say, I feel very alone.

11:01It becomes a very different conversation. And I think that's why I really knew that I had to like step up and talk openly about it. Although the resistance did come. I told Amy, I was like, I feel all these emotions. And I'm like, on the way here, I had a conversation with my husband and my business partner, JD. And he noticed that when I left the house, I just wasn't myself. I woke up this morning and I did all my, I love patterns now. Patterns have become a game changer for me. Like I do the same thing every morning. I pray, I meditate, I take a hot bath. Basically I'm 87 years old. I'm like a lot of hot baths.

11:34I do. I do. I know. I send Amy text messages like early in the morning. I'm in the bath, got this idea. Um, so anyway, he, I did all the things to prepare me for what I felt could be a lot of resistance around this conversation. And on the five freeway driving up here, he said, let's take a step back. And that's been one of the first things. So before we actually get into what, how I'm working through this, the thing I wanted to lead with was I did not want to give anybody the opportunity to label me as, oh, she's like the depressed entrepreneur. And I felt like if I came out and admitted that, that that would become a title.

12:08And I have to remember that I write my own story, that even people can call me anything. They call me X, they call me Y, they call me depressed, they call me happy. I get to define that story and want to encourage other people to say that there could be labels, but there's no stigma around it because what we identify and how we want our labels to be are we are the ones to determine what that actually is and how we manifest it out. Oh, so good. It's so funny that when we are thinking about talking about a topic that is sensitive to us, we come up with all these stories because when my team said, why don't we talk about mental health?

12:44I knew that I don't experience depression like I used to. So then I thought, well, who am I to talk about it? My audience will think that I don't know enough about it or I don't have a strong enough story. But then I realized, especially after talking to Jasmine, that everyone has their own story and it shows up in so many different ways. And here's the thing that also comes with that. When I did have depression on a daily basis, there was so much shame and embarrassment around it. And so I talked to Jasmine about that and I said, one of the reasons why this episode makes me nervous is because I remember all that shame.

13:21I don't want to bring it all up again. The shame I felt of feeling depressed. And it's really hard to talk to people about it if they've never experienced the depression before. So a lot of the times, many people do not talk about it, or they sweep it under the rug, or they keep it a secret. And remember when I talked about the goals of this episode, Jasmine and I wanted it to become part of a conversation for you and whoever you need to have that conversation with. We want you to start talking about it if it's something that you struggle with, because Jasmine, would you agree that once you start talking about it, it starts to slowly take that stigma off of it?

14:01Oh, absolutely. A thousand percent. And one thing I don't think I mentioned to you is I'm actually super excited that you are having the conversation because what you're saying, like, who am I? Who am I? And I think to myself, who are you not? How amazing that you can look back and say, I no longer struggle with that. I think that that in and of itself is so hopeful. So I think it's really great to offer different perspectives, people who have gone through it successfully, people who are working their way through it, and then just actually opening the doors, having a conversation. So very true.

14:30So one thing I wanted to talk about a lot was, or like really get into, is how we got here. So both of us have wildly successful businesses. You would agree, right? Come on. Well, it's not a quarter filled size, but yeah, it's climbing on up there. Yeah. I mean,

14:50and we both have amazing marriages. That's one thing that we really bond over is that we have amazing husbands who support us. We're very lucky. We married out of our league. We married out of our league. I mean, let's be serious. So we have these great businesses. We have these great lives and we are at different places. And this is where I want to show each of our own sides, I have been able to move past the depression. Again, when I talked to Jasmine about this, she pointed out, because I said, well, it's not totally gone. It comes up when I'm struggling with stuff. She's like, yeah, that is, would you call it situational?

15:24But I don't have clinical. That would be the other one, right? So I don't have clinical depression. But anyway, my point is that I've been able to move past it. And I never really took the time to realize I had until I really started to dive into this topic for this episode. And Jasmine, I asked her, and when I said to you, Jasmine, do you feel that it looks different now than it did back then? What did you say? I said, it does. It absolutely does. In what way? And it looks different in that when I made, when I became aware that I needed help and when I became aware that there was people who wanted me to become who I was destined to be.

16:06And the minute I gave myself the permission to ask for help and have very open conversations. And that for me, I kind of feel like I've been, it's like this, the metamorphosis probably happened about two and a half to three years ago. And that's to me when I started making like such cognitive decisions about all of those things I had just mentioned and who I am today. And so I'm a nerd. Like I already said, I'm 87 years old. So So after my bath, I get out in a journal and not like long, it's just a few sentences. And it's a 365 day journal. And I can go back to days and just see my emotional maturity, my progress, where I needed help, like the pitfalls.

16:44I noticed cycles in my emotions and why I was feeling a certain way. That right there has been a game changer. Okay. So I'm so glad you brought all of that up because I wanted to talk about how we got here and give them specifics of our lives and what we've done. And so I'll go first in the sense that number one, and I know some of this is going to overlap Jasmine, but I still want her to tell her story. Number one is I definitely went to therapy and I've done a lot of different type of therapy. So although the depression hasn't been around for a few years now, I'm still very aware of my anxiety and when things come up for me.

17:19And so just not too long ago, I don't know, maybe a year ago, I went to EMDR training and this was amazing. and you can look it up to learn more about it. I'll link to some details about this training, but it was training that I went through or therapy, I should say therapy. I went through to deal with some childhood issues that just kept coming up for me. When things got hard, these issues from childhood would come up and rear their ugly heads. And I think, why are you here? I thought I got past this, but I hadn't. And EMDR therapy literally helped me immensely move past some childhood issues and trauma that I had dealt with.

17:59And so I recently did that. But back in the day, I went through a lot of therapy. I've had numerous therapists that have helped me deal with the depression. And I think to me, that was the number one thing that helped more than anything else. And I'm going to give you guys some resources at the end of where you could find a really good therapist, even if you're on a tight budget. So we're going to share that at the end. The other thing that I did is that I made sure that I was always fueling my brain with resources and resourceful, valuable information that would help me see things in a different light.

18:35And so, of course, I worked for Tony Robbins. And yes, I had depression while I was there. Doesn't mean just because you learn from Tony Robbins doesn't mean that it's not going to be there. But I will say that much of what I learned from Tony, I was able to use and start moving past the depression. So a lot of what Tony teaches helped me move through the depression. And also, I listen to podcasts. I read books. I am always into self-help and making my mind stronger in terms of what I think, how I feel. Also, just recently, you all know that I've been working with a weight loss coach. I've talked about this on my Insta stories.

19:13And working with my weight loss coach, we don't even talk about food. and we don't get into what the diet looks like. We talk about how my thoughts turn into feelings and how my feelings turns into actions. And so with that, if I change my thoughts, I change my feelings and I change my actions. So literally once a week, I meet with a coach where we are drilling down on what kind of thoughts am I having and what am I making them mean? So I work on myself every single day, even after the depression I feel has kind of taken a backseat in my life. So constantly fueling my mind, going to therapy. And here's my last one.

19:55And that is that the relationships in my life have changed everything. So marrying Hobie, I will say that that definitely made a huge impact on the depression. Jasmine's smiling. I am, Hobie's great. He's great. And he was just somebody in my life that was able to not judge the depression, not put a label on it, not make it mean something that it didn't mean. He just sat with it with me and he listened when he needed to. And then he offered advice when I wanted it. And to have that kind of support system means everything when you are feeling depressed and you can't get out of bed in the morning.

20:29And so I know that some of you are surrounded by people that are not helping you with the depression, that they don't know what to do or what to say, but your support system means everything. And so I've gotten people out of my life because of it. And I've invited new people into my life. And I know this is cheesy, Jasmine, but you were one of those people in my life that if I called you and said, that black cloud is back and here's why, you would sit there for hours with me and talk to me about that. So I would sit there for hours and then I would drive, I would drive down here. We're gonna sit here.

21:06It's so true. I'm gonna do a little rain dance. Yeah. I'm gonna make that cloud go away. So you need the friends who will do the rain dance with you to make the clouds go away. I mean, how perfect is that? It is true. And so those are some of the tools that I used. I wanted to share them with you because I told Jasmine, I want to talk about how we got to a better place. We're not perfect. It's not totally gone, but we are both in better places than we were with the depression. So I wanted to talk about how we got there. So I want you. I actually love that you brought that up because I feel like it's just encouragement for what I am currently working through.

21:42So all of those four main points that you articulated are things that I am still doing. So in light of full disclosure, I have come a very long way and I look forward to the day that I can be just like Amy and say, it has been a thing that I have worked through and it is a thing of my past. I am not quite there yet. I do struggle with it. I have come a long, long, long way. First steps and this, and I just want to be make sure that I'm very open and super respectful. I have to understand that my parents are immigrants. America is different. How we navigate conversations is different. And so I don't think that they ever stigmatize the idea of speaking to a therapist, but they made it very, very upper class.

22:24And so for people who aren't from California, California is very segmented and it's segmented by county. And so my parents, LA through and through, like, go thashers, that's my dad, okay? So when I told my parents, go thashers. Okay, so when I told my dad that I really wanted, that I was going to start seeing a therapist, he says, holds up his pinky finger. Oy, Orange County, huh? You're so Orange County. And it was a joke. Or as my dad says, a yoke. Okay, so it was a joke. It was a joke. But I think that it was a difficult conversation to have. Like, what does it mean? Because my whole childhood, we had groceries donated on the porch and we rode the bus to church.

23:05And so this idea of paying somebody to hear you talk was as foreign as like literally a flying pig. And so I felt like what I realized and I had to make a hard decision was that I cannot expect anybody in my life to accept the responsibility to walk me through a very difficult path. So if you feel like you don't have that person, that's okay. Your next objective would be to take the responsibility to find people in your life. Now, I will say that my husband is my best friend and my just foundation, and he is so good and he is so kind and he listens. However, I also don't think that my husband should be a therapist.

23:47That's a great point. And if you have the luxury, I think that's phenomenal. but I also do think that I really wanted to have like a clear distinction. And I'm just like type A and very pigheaded. I'm like, well, do you have a degree? No, you don't. So that was the first step. So hearing that you found a great therapist makes a big difference. And there was a really, really, really dark time in my life. And that was around 2015, where I knew that I had nowhere to go. Like I was just rock bottom. And I said, I have nobody to talk to. I am just, I'm strung out. Like my heart, like my soul feels broken.

24:27And so the minute I found a therapist, initially I didn't think he was all that great. But I tell myself, and this is what I tell friends, people who are looking for therapists, is to be fair to yourself and to be fair to them. And that would give them at least three opportunities. Love that. Because I feel like every therapist I've ever been to, I did not love them right out of the bat. Well, of course, it's like, you're literally going on a blind date. Right. And you know, therapist websites are terrible. Like they basically need to go through one of our trainings to be like, guys, you got to brand yourself a little better.

24:53I have a student that he helps therapists with websites because they're so bad. God bless him. Like they're terrible. Like they, they literally say nothing. So as you kind of go in, it's like literally a blind date. And so I didn't really like vibe with him all that much the first time, but I said, Hey, my rule of three, the second time he came around. And the third time was when he's just started kind of just like itemizing, asking questions after the notes that he'd take. He's like, I'm seeing a pattern in the stories that you're telling the way that you're talking. And I was like, huh, okay, let's go for meeting number four.