Turning Pain into Purpose with Cassey Ho

24:36And I kept asking myself, why me? Like, why do I need to feel all this right now? And the answer to that question came after that summit. Because of this, YouTube policy actually changed. And they changed the rules on harassment and things like that and how people can monetize online. and that channel ended up being demonetized and that person ended up not making those videos anymore because it was all money-based anyway. And so the harassment ended up stopping. I don't even know if this person is still online. If they are, whatever, I don't even see them. But I guess all of that was for an entire platform policy change.

25:18And so around this time, there's toxicity online and then there's toxicity within your team. And the reason why I bring this up is because the goal for me was to show like for every ascension, there had to come like a dipping point in order for you to make decisions. So you have a team of five or six at this time. And what, when you look back, as you're, and at this time, do you consider yourself an entrepreneur? Yes, I would say because we had, let's see, 2017, 18, something like that. Yeah. So you're considering yourself, I went from YouTuber to entrepreneur. I have a team. Yeah. And then you realize the team is toxic.

25:58And so when you look back at that, what did you not do to prevent that that you've done now? What is the main difference? What was not happening at that time? You know, I remember also at one of these YouTube summits, a very popular YouTuber that I respect and still respect. He had an interesting perspective on how to hire people. And he said, hire from your fan base. You don't have to talk about your mission. They just get it. And all of us were like, yeah, of course. And so one of my first big hires was from the fan base and extremely talented individual. Unfortunately, I think what happens when you hire from the fan base is that they expect the online version of Cassie, the instructor version who is bubbly and excited and happy all the time.

26:45But business Cassie is pretty business. Like it's very, very serious. And so I think that created this weird dynamic where maybe they didn't expect the person that they expected and created like this weird tension in the office where sometimes I would walk in and there'd be chatter and all of a sudden, boom, silence. And you know like something. They were talking about something. And that just created this weird atmosphere. Now, that's just like one hypothesis I have on why that part went wrong. But there was a whole other thing about, you know, working with younger employees and, you know, expectations versus reality and, you know, people wanting to be promoted really fast when they're not ready.

27:27And it was like all of these things that I had, honestly, I hadn't signed up for, you know, like I signed up to, you know, be a creative and design things and content create. but not manage people's feelings, become a therapist, like which I'm still like navigating to this day. I'm much better now, but it was so difficult. It was really difficult. So it's very common in the entrepreneurial journey to understand that the team that gets you to a certain spot will likely, most likely not be the team that gets you to the next spot as you ascend. So when you look back at that time, how long from the moment where you realize, okay, this is not the team and this is not a good situation for me?

28:07I think it was like a couple or a few years of really trying to make it work and make it better. And I think the hardest and most hurtful thing, especially for me because I'm extremely sensitive and empathetic and, you know, I want my team to also ascend with me and do better. But we also have to be so real and so honest with each other. And so if we can't get on the same page, it's just not going to work out. And eventually what ended up happening was the people who didn't feel like they wanted to be there left. And with that bad apple energy, like left all that toxicity. And then the right people came in place.

28:46And it was a really, really tough time. Did you shrink your team down? Or was it like one or two people left and you brought one or two people in? Yeah, it was kind of like that. Yeah, it was kind of like that. And so talk to me. Based on what you learned from, okay, probably, I'm assuming, did you hire from your community again? Let me think. No, I did not. I did not. So you're putting out an entirely different type of job description because you said, I'm going to need a different type of player to get the business to the next level. Well, you know what was the difference? The difference was working with contractors because you get a chance to date people.

29:17And I think this is what is wrong with the hiring process right now. Why is it that we all work in this way where we go on these blind dates together? You have, you know, 30 minutes to an hour to like be like, yeah, this is going to work. what? And then you offer a marriage proposal. You hope it works. And if it doesn't, you have to get divorced. Why can't we just literally date each other? And then if it works, then you get married. And so that's what I do now. And that changed the game for us. Amazing. So talk to me though about the logistics. So the story that I used to tell myself, but so far we've done it with our three most recent employees and I love it.

29:54So as a quick breakdown, what Cassie is recommending is let's say you're looking for a marketing manager. Okay, fine. And so you're going to say, this person's probably going to work 40 hours a week. I'm going to W-2. I'm going to give them a 401k. I'm going to get their insurance. And then all of a sudden, this person doesn't work out. And it's so complicated to let go of a W-2, specifically in California. Anyway, and so what she's saying is, let me hire a contractor and let me see what this scope of work. Do they deploy? Are they communicative? How do they work under pressure? You get to AKA date them.

30:25Right. And they get to date you too, which is fair. That's true. That's true. I think it's fair for both sides. That's true. It's so healthy. And so then after a certain amount of time, you're like, wow, this person is over-delivered. I like the way that they work. And then you extend the marriage, which is let's go full-time. Let's go full-time. Let's go deep. Let's build. And so sometimes the story is people who are really qualified and talented aren't going to take a contractor's position for like 15 or 20 hours a week. For sure. And so how do you overcome that? And you know what? Like, this is so true.

30:51Recently, we've had to take the leap. but sometimes sometimes these hard workers will work after hours after their normal job because i just need a taste i need a taste of your work ethic who you are do you fit with the you know the rest of the team and if i if i feel like we have that taste then you know sometimes you do have to just take a risk for a really good person so you are you go from youtuber as an identity yeah and then you step into entrepreneur as an identity and and to be clear identities are not you. It's just in this phase, in this era, this is what's going on. And your content continues to go viral.

31:27You are continuing to grow out all social platforms. And at what point do you start stepping into, I'm a designer? Now, you've always been a designer. When does the identity on the inside start matching what's on the outside? You know, I think the inside and the outside I truly became one harmonious thing. When I started PopFlex, yeah, when I started PopFlex, I... Okay, talk about the distinction between PopFlex and Blogilates. Okay, yeah, yeah, this is important. Okay, okay. So Blogilates started out as my YouTube channel's screen name, okay? And for the most part, it was kind of my more merch-like thing.

32:04So the slogans on the shirts, the slogans on the yoga mats, and things like that. But the distinction with PopFlex is pretty much, I wanted my own Lululemon, okay? I was wearing everyone's brand in my fitness videos. And I was like, I want to wear my own brand. And that is also what led me back into that childhood dream of wanting to become a fashion designer. And so without any technical or educational training in fashion design, I was like, let's just do this. I'm going to figure it out because I love clothes. I love clothes so much. So in 2016, I started PopFlex and it was my own activewear range.

32:40And it did really well. It did really well in the beginning. But then it didn't because I didn't know anything about fit, especially when... Why did it... Okay. Talk to me about the difference. It did really well and then it didn't. Why did it do well and then what did you discover? So it did well because the community was super excited. They bought it. Now, I began with standard sizes, like extra small through extra large. And my channel at the time was very much about, you know, inclusivity and body positivity. And so it didn't make sense that I didn't have plus size. But I also didn't understand how to make plus size, again, without any technical design training.

33:18So after I launched my first two with standard range, I was working on plus in the background. And that was really difficult because I did not understand how the body changed measurement-wise, calculation-wise. And just like in reality, I didn't know how to make a good fit. I have a question, though. I am like so stuck here. Okay, okay. So you sketch, and I know you sketch because still to this day, you show your sketches as part of your content, which I absolutely love. I love it. I'm so obsessed. So you're sketching. You know what you want it to look like. And then what? You're like, okay, I need to take this design and make it.

33:53We're not even speaking about plus size. You're like, this design, and now I need it. And then so there's standard sizing and measurements for extra small through extra large? Not really. No, that's the weird thing about women's clothing. Okay. Not really. So then you go, and then you're taking it to manufacture? Yeah. Yeah. So what you do is after I do the sketch, then we create a tech pack. And so a tech pack includes like a - And you're just teaching yourself this. I'm teaching myself this. Also at the time I was working with like this graduate from FITM and she was kind of figuring it out.

34:21It was her first job. Like we're all just like figuring it out and just learning by like what the factory was like, hey, do you have this? Do you know this? And like, honestly, just studying the garments that I already had at home. I had every brand in my closet because I was wearing everything like Lulu, Aloe, Tiki, Beyond Yoga, everything. You know, brands are still here today and maybe not even here today. And they also sent me a ton of stuff. And so there was a lot of things that I could work off of. And you're kind of just looking at those measurements. Now, again, I'm a size small, so I understood like how small worked.

34:51But then there's something called grading. And with grading, you calculate like how much of a percent increase between, you know, a small that we'd up to medium, large, extra large, 3X. The thing is, it is not the same percent grade in different areas of the body. For example, you wouldn't grade a wrist that differently between like a small and a plus. Yeah, yeah. Versus like hips. Hips can grow. Boobs can grow. But wrists, not so much. Ankles, not so much. And so there's a lot of nuance to it that you don't know until you begin trying. So anyway, what I was saying is that I did not understand those things in our first plus drop.

35:25People are super excited about it. This is our third drop. and things came back a little too tight. So that was bad. And then so in the fourth drop, and again, like the first two drops were great because it was like, I think, you know, within six months of each other, which felt like really healthy for a collection drop. The third drop took like a year and a half because I did not understand how to fit for plus. And so anyway, when I dropped the third one, it was too tight. People were not happy with that. So then in the fourth one, everything was like too big and people weren't happy with that.

35:56And of course, what happens with clothing and fit is that if you don't get it right, if it's not consistent, you lose trust. And when you lose trust, you lose the customer. And, you know, sales were stagnant and going down as my channel started going up. So these things were not matching because I didn't know enough about the garment construction process. And it wasn't until I found a manufacturer who was able to help interpret what I needed. And also I started working with a technical designer to help me understand better the fit on a female body. That's when things started to change. And that was around like 2019 or something.

36:35No, but like seriously, from 2016 to before I found that next manufacturer, sales were up and down and almost dead. Wow. And so your channels are growing. Yeah. Down and almost dead. And then you have to make a decision. And what is your, if you go back to that time, at what point you're like, I have another one in me. I am ready to head to this bet. And talk to me about the technical designer who you hired. And was that a different hire? Did you know you needed that hire? And it was a matter of finding that hire? Or did that person find you? Yeah, I mean, I think I just put something up online, a contractor.

37:09And it was just the person who responded to me. And they were in LA. And I was like, cool, like, let's meet up for a few hours. Let's figure this out. but yeah I mean understanding like when you're in this point we're down and almost dead what do you say to yourself like I'm gonna give this another try and like where are you at like how much risk are you willing to so so this was the my so remember how I told you there was all that online stuff happening oh yeah okay so there was that there was the toxic team happening and then there was also the business not doing well so all three were happening at once so you can only imagine how bad and insecure and just like, I am worthless as a human being.

37:51Like, that's how I felt. I felt like I couldn't do anything right for anyone and also felt ugly in my body because everyone was telling me I was ugly in my body. So I really wanted to give up. I was having panic attacks. And honestly, like, I don't, I didn't believe in myself anymore, which is really tough because I always believe in myself. I'm a very confident person and I have dreams. And my husband was like, Cassie, give it 30 more days. And I really didn't want to. I wanted to stop blogilates, stop potflex, and move to Hawaii and just be like, I just need to live a different life. And magically, it's in those last moments of almost giving up when you have to crawl out of that hole that this different type of survival instinct comes out and things just happen.

38:36And it was in those 30 days that that other manufacturer just randomly emailed me. And I was like, whatever I'm not even going to give you a tech pack I'm going to send you my sketches and like let's see what you can do as a test and he actually did really great and I was like oh okay so that's when he came around that's when I found the technical designer on Upwork like things just happened also the bad apples left and new apples do you call them apples anymore I don't know bad apples left saplings came in and it just like was the beginning of something fresh and new so I really do owe it all to my husband Sam for telling me not to give up because I truly had given up on myself in that time and Sam is your COO or director yeah he's COO yeah yeah that's right he's so good at what he does and I don't want to be doing what he does that's amazing okay so then you see this you see this shift happening yeah and then talk to me about the Taylor Swift moment because there's this couple things which like all of a sudden the saplings are in place and you're finding a better fit and you're restoring trust and you're building out that audience and then sometimes you're able to catch lightning in a bottle yeah okay so i'm gonna back up a little bit because i what i can tell from this conversation is that you really love these inflection points right yes okay so this whole time period amazing to see how she's like oh i get it i get the game we're playing i'm gonna do this i love it um okay so this whole time from 2009 on, I was making long form horizontal videos.

40:10Okay. And that was all fitness videos. Now around 2021, okay. Again, Popflix started in 2016. Around 2021, I was feeling no longer challenged by doing the fitness videos. Now I'm not saying I don't like fitness or working out or Pilates. I still do it every morning. Okay. It's part of my lifestyle. However, creatively, I was no longer challenge. And I'm the type of person, I guess, unfortunately, that has to always live my life so challenged at all times in order to feel some sense of self-worth. It's just horrendous how I was brought up. Anyway, so I wanted to make a change in my content for myself and show people more of who I was.

40:48And so I wanted to show people Cassie Ho, the designer, not just Cassie Ho, the fitness instructor. And if I had not made that change to short-form content and the why behind the design, which are the videos you see now, I would have burnt out creatively, 100%. And you will see YouTubers talk about this all the time. They kind of get stuck on the views and the content, what people expect from them. But I am someone who follows my heart through and through. It has always led me to the right place. No matter how painful the pathway is, it takes me to the right place. So around 2021, I decided, hey, let's talk about construction of garments.

41:30To me, it's interesting. It's scientific. It's architectural. People think fashion is so floofy and superficial, but it is so smart. And you just don't hear people talk about it. And so I wanted to talk to women about, hey, what creates a camel toe? Why do you need that front seam? That video went viral. And I was like, oh, okay, let me talk more about fashion in this different way of really bringing the audience into the why behind the construction. And these videos started going viral. Then they would go viral and sell out the product within hours. And then it just became my format. It became a new format.

42:06And I am so grateful and so lucky that this pivot actually ended up working for me because I've seen other content creators try to do a big pivot and it may not work out for them. The audience may not come along for the ride. But I think for me, the difference is that desire of wanting to be a fashion designer, that was in my bones since I was born. And I think the audience could really tell that this is coming from a different place. Okay, I want to pause here from a business perspective. And so just to slow it down a tiny bit for the audience is she went from long form horizontal into short form vertical, but she wasn't doing fitness in the short form vertical.

42:45What she was doing was how to explaining why, let's say you get a camel toe in workout clothes she was explaining fit to people so while she wasn't speaking about fitness and specifically she could actually get a fitness shirt and describe the differences between it so it was an extension not a complete diversion and so then she starts realizing that she's striking a nerve by education but what does the education do it ends up selling her clothes and that right there is just what you've pioneered and and i say pioneered because so many people have copied it and but it's so effective and like great to each their own but you you saw it you did it and then you had these you reaped massive rewards from it so you're shifting an audience though because I'm guessing that the audience on YouTube became very different when you went to TikTok Instagram it skewed younger it did it did skew younger and I remember because this was during the pandemic I remember one of the first times we were all let out again And I was out on the streets.

43:42For the first time, a little girl who was like eight or something came up to me and was like, I want to be a fashion designer just like you. And that was the first time it wasn't a woman who came up to me and said, thank you for helping me lose weight. Thank you for helping me be more confident in my body. And that's when it started changing. That was like the coolest thing. I will always remember that. And she likely saw you on TikTok. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Okay. So then talk to me about this shift in the demo, shift in views, and what type of growth are we seeing? When you decide, I'm going to shift my content, which in itself is a risk, from a business perspective, how are you quantifying the time and amount of energy?

44:23Because you spend a lot of time creating content. Oh, my goodness. Yes. Okay. So one 60-second short takes me around 9 to 10 hours. And that's in filming, editing. There's a lot of it. You're doing it yourself. I'm all doing it myself. And I know that's crazy. I know people think I'm crazy, but I have to explain myself, okay? I'm explaining myself because each of my designs are my babies, okay? I spend around average two years of product development. I'm in every fit for every product. And so I see the evolution of this product. And around like 90, 95 % of the products that we make all come from my sketch, that original concept.

45:05So I'm there for the entire process. and I want to be the person that births it to the world. And so it's really important for me just in here, again, in my heart, to tell its story. And so I really do enjoy just taking my phone, setting it up on a little tripod, and I just like, I honestly, I just start filming because I already know. I don't do a script. I don't do a storyboard. Now, if I was working with a bunch of other people, 100%, I have to do that, but it's all in my head. And so I film, I edit, I don't write, but my writing actually is the editing part because I'm thinking about how the story is going to be told.

45:41And then at the end, I'll do the voiceover once I have something that seems right. And I just like, again, I don't script it out. I just I just speak. And so, yeah, nine to 10 hours. It's a lot. But it brought the joy back into editing for me because at the end of making fitness videos, I honestly and I wasn't editing at the end. I couldn't stand it anymore. How many times can I hear myself talking about how to do a double leg lift or a crunch. Like, love it. But again, wasn't mentally challenged anymore. But talking about garment construction and just like the why behind, you know, different seams and stuff like that's interesting to me because it's different.

46:18And so you start making this pivot. The content changes. The audience is changing. People are responding to it. It's lit up something on the inside. And so then what happens for the Taylor Swift moment? Okay. And I actually have to say, just as a side note, I love the content that you put out I whenever I see a video and talking about your sketch to real life I absolutely love it because when I wear it I know like oh this is a secret pocket yeah oh this is the way and so I just want the audience to know that I am wearing currently currently pop flex currently pop flex and before we turn on cameras Cassie said oh my gosh this sweater looks so good in you and I was just like I want it in every color not as an endorsement but because I know what went in behind it and I noticed the details that had I might overlooked it's like oh no it's metal it's a weighted end to like the hoodie string and I know where like my side pockets are and I know that I could pair it with a pair of jean shorts and I put it off the shoulder and it goes from like my gym to I'm just gonna go out and spend the day here in Austin and just like feel fly so spend those nine hours girl we appreciate it we're better because of it okay but talk to me okay so this is the main point because what we see is a big takeoff and then we see and this is where I want to like kind of like lend it to a bit of suspense because there is the Taylor Swift moment.

47:33Then there's a bunch of people who copy it. And then there's Cassie, again, becoming a pioneer, climbing the next mountain and taking on much bigger audiences and bigger companies. So let's talk about that real quick. Okay. So we can't talk about the Taylor Swift moment without talking about the skort that started it all. The skort that started it all. So in 2021, I sketched the pirouette skort and And essentially, it's a wide waistband, squirt, two-tiered mesh with shorts under, anti-camel-told pockets. And really just imagine ballerina meets fitness, okay? It's just strong, athletic, and graceful all at the same time.

48:13So anyway, I drew that in 2021. Released it in 2022. When I was drawing it, I told my husband, Sam, Sheehan is going to copy this. I already knew because they were copying everyone. I was like, there's nothing like this on the market. Oh, because it was new and so different. New and novel. I had never seen it before. Okay. And so surely enough, I released the score. It goes viral. It sells out pretty much immediately as we're trying to restock. Shein swoops in and makes the score just like I said they would. And I end up calling them out. I was reached out by their Shein U.S. president who wanted to get on a phone call with me to rectify things.

48:56I'm like, We ended up meeting. He tried to offer a partnership for me to design for that. I was like, absolutely not. Just take this off the website and never do this again. Where are you meeting? Like, is it in person? Virtually. No, they wanted me to come in person. I was like, no, I don't think that's safe. I don't think that's safe. So you meet virtually and they're trying, instead of rectifying, instead of saying we stole your... Oh, they never admitted to that. Okay, so they just said, oh, funny, we have the same identical item that didn't exist anywhere else, but we saw it went viral with you.

49:26Well, what? No. So they, you know, what he said is that, oh, that's not even our design. You know, we have buyers that it's a marketplace. We just bought it from a factory. Like what? Like pretty much never admitted that their people clearly saw my design and copied it because they saw the success. And the crazy thing is now, and I'm like forwarding a million years, not really, but there are multiple products on Shein that are direct copies of PopFlex. It's just like, I know exactly what you're doing. It's not just Shein. There's been other brands that not only copy the design and many of these patented designs, they also copy the way of filming.

50:04They'll even hire a model with my same body type, maybe my same background to confuse the audience. for example like a halara and fans have actually come up to me and they've been like hey is that your sub brand like that's the level of confusion that we're talking about but yeah there's a whole conversation around dupes that i'm sure we're going to get into but yeah so sheen copies it they eventually take it down promise they won't do it again and then of course it keeps happening but because of that it inspired me to get a design patent and i've never had a patent before in my life. And I, you know, we went through the process of getting an expedited design patent.

50:42So normally when you file an application, it could take anywhere between, you know, two, three, five years, depending. And an expedited, if you pay extra money, can give it to you within like a year or so if it even gets approved. It's very difficult. And so lucky for me, it was proven that no one has ever created anything like the pirouette scort before. So I get granted the design patent. Weirdly, on my birthday in 2024. Yeah. January 16, 2024. I don't know if you like believe in like numbers and stuff, but I feel like lots of magical things have just happened around the number 16 and that's like so my number.

51:21And so that was a big sign for me. So that happens on January 16, 2024. And then a few months later on April 19, 2024, Taylor Swift was spotted wearing the pirouette squirt. And I was so numb, I died. I died because one, I have been listening to Taylor Swift since way back, like in 2008 era, teardrops on my guitar. Like she has helped me through breakups, heartbreak so much. And to see like literally my favorite celebrity and musician wearing my baby, like the one that I have fought so much for, knowing that she's also fought so hard for her music. Like it just meant so much to me. And whether or not she knew that she chose that skirt because of what I've gone through, it didn't matter because it meant so much to me.

52:13And I, man, like I'm still dying from that, but that created this crazy connection between PopFlex and Taylor Swift and really just put PopFlex on like this different level. And we obviously sold out of that digital lavender pirouette score pretty much immediately. Then all the other pirouette scores started selling out. And, you know, we did the reorder as fast as we could. But of course, during the reorder period, all of these dupes started popping up. And it's just been insane and horrendous and a game of whack-a-mole, even with a patent to take it down. Because what people never talk about is that, okay, you pay thousands of dollars to the government to get this patent.

52:56But when you have it, there's no one in the government to help you enforce it. And it's a game of money. And whoever has more money to pay the legal fees is going to win. So what ended up happening was that not only was it the Sheeans, the Timu, the TikTok shops, like Amazon, like so many. And just to give you like an understanding of how bad it is, just last week Last week alone, on TikTok Shop, there were 233 separate listings of the pirouette squirt alone on TikTok Shop. And every time there's a dupe listing, we have to fill out this huge form and take it down. And all the work goes on the owner instead of the infringer because they can upload again.

53:39And I literally have a person full time filling out these forms and taking down. But at this point, it's like she doesn't even have enough time. I think I need to hire more people. And so it becomes like this thing that where I should be focusing on creating the next and the new, but I'm trying to protect myself. Now, there are people who say things like, oh, wait, hold on. I need to finish that story. And then I'll go back to what I was trying to say. After you see the jump, the spike in dupes for the online brands, online platforms, just within the past few months, it's gone to American retailers.

54:13And so that same pirouette score that Taylor Sephora in that color patented by me is now at Nordstrom Rack, Kohl's, JCPenney, TJ Maxx, Marshall's. The list goes on. And it's just so infuriating because these multi-billion dollar corporations, what they can't just make an order from the original designer? Like what is going on? I saw this go down on Instagram and TikTok. And your community really started going over to Nordstrom's Instagram and saying like, hey, what's going on? What is transpired? Okay, so just to bring the audience up to speed. She has a patent, a design patent. She went on social media and said, hey, Nordstrom, you can just order from us instead of buying a dupe.

54:59Support small business owners. And then her community all went over and said, we want better and we want more. And then Nordstrom deflected. No, they didn't even do anything. They never DM'd me back. They, in fact, during this whole saga, instead of just, like, responding to any comments or saying anything, they put up this poor influencer, like, collab video and all the comments went on her page. Like, it was bad moves. I saw everything they were doing. They were just trying to bury it, kept posting, deleting, like, until, like, fans would get tired and thinking I would get tired. And they don't know who they messed with.

55:35They don't know who they messed with. So what happens? Where are things at now? So I've had to change my legal team to get more aggressive. Unfortunately, they're spending a lot of money on legal fees. I'm spending money on legal fees because I'm not going to shut up. I'm not going to shut up about this because when I fight for myself, it's not just about me and that score. It's about all the other independent designers who can't pay for this. I'm standing up for all of us because this happens all the time. There is no respect for creatives. People think, you know, people have even told me before, oh, your patent doesn't mean anything.

56:08I could design that in my sleep. Well, then why didn't you? Why didn't you? I think the same type of lack of respect happens when you just kind of see what's going on with AI and artists, like taking away from artists. And there would be no I and generation of images if there was no one to take from. So just this like lack of respect for artistry gets me really riled up. And so I'm fighting for all the artists out there, and I'm hoping that we can come to some type of resolution. And I will never shut up about this. And I'm glad I'm not, because when I see people on the street, the first thing they say, they always go like, keep fighting Nordstrom, keep fighting the bad guys.

56:45And I'm going to keep fighting. Okay. Yeah. This right here, ladies and gentlemen, is Cassie Ho. This is that same mentality and that same belief of I'm going to fight. I'm going to fight getting out of potentially becoming a buyer. I'm gonna fight by having like 16 feet of boxes in my parents home I'm going to fight to get the warehouse. I'm going to fight to fulfill I'm gonna fight to figure out what sizing is. I'm gonna fight to figure out expansion I'm going to fight every obstacle in her way and her next obstacle Has proven to be bigger than most people would ever take on and what she's saying is i'm here and i'm ready And that is why I wanted her on the show because it inspires us to take on whatever big opposition is in our way and say if somebody like Cassie, who's never formally designed, can figure out how to design.

57:31For somebody like Cassie, who's put out batches that did really well and then got down to almost zero, can still rise and come back up from that. Can we not too? Cassie, where can people go to find more about PopFlex, about Blogilates, about going deeper in your story? So lucky for me, I am at Blogilates on every single platform. Thank goodness it's a weird word and nobody wants it. And then popflex.com is where you can find the designs. You can find the score. You can find the sweater. You can find all of the stuff that I absolutely love living in. Lucky for me, I like to wear workout clothes at home and then at the gym.

58:09Same. Yeah. Always, always comfortable and stylish. And if you are really trying to up-level your content, I follow Cassie, yes, to learn, but I'm watching what she does. It is so wildly powerful. I probably can have a whole other conversation just about your ideology about content creation. So maybe we bookmark that for another time. But thank you. Thank you for showing your resilience. Thank you for being so inspiring. Thank you for continuing to push so many people who are looking, myself included, on looking up at what it is that you're doing because you become a waymaker for so many of us.

58:40So thank you. Oh, and thank you. And can I just say how lovely it was to talk to you and the way you helped guide this conversation and fill in holes because I actually have a lot of trouble telling my story because it's so windy as with like, I'm sure you talk to so many entrepreneurs and just like so windy. And so thank you for pulling out the bits that where you wanted to get. I take that. I take that as a compliment because I truly respect everything you've done. And it's my job to be like, how can we get literally decades of your magic into a 60 minute conversation? And so the fact that you saw that in me being like, okay, I'm going to continue doing this because I think that hopefully the work that I do elevates and highlights the magic that you are.

59:19So if you get in the car with Sam and you say, on the inside, it feels good, then I'll be like, heck yes. Oh, on the inside, it feels good. Wait, can I ask you a question? Can I ask you a question? Oh my gosh, okay, let's go. Okay, so at the top of this interview, you said that sometimes when you talk to, I forget if it was entrepreneurs or just people in general, they don't get into that emotional side. That's what you said, right? Oh yeah. What are they normally giving you? Because I am such an emotional sensitive person. Actually, Cassie, a lot of the work that I did in studying what it is that you had done, it was really surprising to me how much you say, like, I cried, it hurts my feelings, I'm sensitive.

59:54And it really was a juxtaposition for me because I'm super high logic, high analytical. Yes, like the mean comments absolutely hurt me. But then I just kind of turn it as into internal fuel. And I saw somebody who is really open about being sensitive, really open about the feelings of it, and then doing something that I wouldn't even have the capacity to do is to say, I'm going to turn this on the inside out and I'm going to show you what you want of me. And it was such a power move that I was like, whoa. And what I genuinely see is high logic, high analytics, high quant. This is the thing that we're going to do.

1:00:27And you're like, feeling. And I was like, I need to tap more into that. That's what I wanted to do on the show. There's different paths to success. There just is. And I'm like, dang, maybe osmotically. We'll run into the show and it's like, I'll get more of you, girl. I can more of you. Can I just tell you how many times I wish I could just like take a pill and like not feel so much because I feel too much. Everything is so, well, look, it's double-edged, right? Yes. The happy is so good. But when I'm like so sad, I'm like dying. Yeah. So yes, let's osmotically rub up on each other. It's your power.

1:01:00It's your power. And we both learn from each other. But just being around you and seeing a different side of an entrepreneur, wildly successful. It just proves that there's so many paths to success. And that's what I wanted to show. Thank you so much. Oh, thank you. This is so fun. I adore you. I hope you have a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful day. And I just know that if I saw you in the street, I'd probably fist bump you and be like, keep on fighting the big one. Keep on fighting. Yeah. If you enjoyed this episode of the Jazz and Star Show, do us a favor. Subscribe, follow, blog a lot. Join her journey and support what it is that she's doing.

1:01:32And if you like that athleisure, this is the entrepreneur. Yeah, this is a cloud hoodie. She's wearing the cloud hoodie right now. Wow hoodie, basically entrepreneur uniform. You can check it out at PopFlex. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you.