#2002 - Amanda Feilding

31:47It's authentically American, representing uncompromising quality for the rugged, the powerful, and the passionate. Tap the banner to learn more or visit buffalotracedustillery .com. That's buffalotracedustillery .com. Distilled, aged, and bottled by Buffalo Trace Distillery, 90 proof, Franklin County, Kentucky, Buffalo Trace, American, family -owned, independent, and perfectly untamed. I think it's very, very important. And that's why in the 70s, because I was involved in it in the 60s mainly, when my passion to change the world started when I first really knew the value of psychedelics, which was probably in 65 onwards.

32:38And as the door of repression came down, one can see it's a kind of disaster for humanity. Yes. But I thought the only way we could overcome it is by using the language of the establishment to prove that these compounds can actually heal humanity, not be damaging for humanity as they were advertised as. But actually, they are... I want to heal it and better happen it's more fulfilled life. And so I thought that that's why I started doing the sounds to try to with the language of the modern world, which is sounds, to demonstrate how valuable these compounds are. And I think that's why I set up the Beckley Imperial study.

33:36And the first day we did was using psilocybin. And then we saw that I wanted to do Elisthi, but we couldn't do Elisthi in those days. I had to be psilocybin. No one knows what psilocybin is, how it spelled what it means. It's not so to do. So we got permission. And I wanted to do brain imaging to look into our hypothesis that what they do is increase the volume of blood in the brain capillaries. And hopefully with MRI, I wouldn't see that. But anyway, what we did see in the first study we did with psilocybin was a decrease of blood in the default mode network, which is a modern expression of the eager, what part of the eager.

34:29And that was very interesting because the default mode network, I'd eager, is hyperactive underlying psychological conditions like depression or anxiety or addiction, or all of those things have a hyperactive eager saying, I needed to drink, I'm so depressed. And we saw that psilocybin lowers the blood supply to that part of the brain. And so then actually we got a government grant to help us do the next phase of the study. So I think it's very important showing how, because we all know we're in an epidemic of mental illness now, getting ever more. And rather surprisingly, and away rather ironically, science, which has been so determined to prove that the spiritual is an old man in the sky, it's just total rubbish, which he finally has done.

35:42Now at the very center of the new healing, I, psychedelic assisted therapy, is the mystical experience. And what we showed is the people who underwent what it can category as a mystical experience, are you loosening up the eager feeling of unity. Those are the ones who have the best outcomes of overcoming that depression. So it's rather a beautiful little, ironically, twist that now suddenly the psychedelics are at the center of this new approach to healing. And I think the healing of psychedelics goes much, much farther than what we've touched on so far, which is psychologically based conditions.

36:43I think it can be very, very useful in different doses, because what is so wonderful about psychedelics is to have different, totally different effects in the different dose. And at the mini micro dose, I'm beginning to have evidence that I'm just starting a study, which shows amazing potential results of microdose for Alzheimer's. Really? Yeah, really amazing, remarkable. Really? And I was watching a video yesterday on cannabis and Parkinson's. It was incredible. There was a gentleman who had horrible loss of control of his body and the shaking, and they gave him cannabis oil. Yeah. And he put it under his tongue and a few minutes later he's lying back on the couch, and then he holds his hands out and his hands are dead straight.

37:39One that's strong. And my partner, who is the father of my children, he got Parkinson's, so I was very well, I'm very fond of him, mild Parkinson's, but still it was Parkinson's. And so I've heard how, and I've studied it, how microdosing, it again, is very good for minimizing. So I'm wanting to do, I'm setting up a research into that. Interesting. You know, I think, and I think also... Yeah, this is the gentleman right here, this is exactly the video that I saw. So this guy has terrible loss of control of his body. He can barely hold the cannabis oil in his mouth. Pulled in mouth. Yeah. I mean, he's struggling so bad, but now it's his 137 pm, this is when he takes it, and then you see just a few minutes later they show him lie back.

38:39And this is, go ahead, Jimmy. That's 141. Look at this. I mean, not even 10 minutes. That is magic. And look at this. And he's fine. He sits up. And he's just blown away by. He's like, it's so quickly, and look at his hands. Incredible. No, that is wonderful. I have a friend who has a child that has a pretty severe autism. And when he gives the kid cannabis, when he gives him edible cannabis, it just stops it. Yes, it stops it. The kid can... Absolutely. Make eye contact, communicate. Absolutely. Well, I could show you, the trouble is I can't show you privately, but not the person involved doesn't want it to go out.

39:22Of a wonderful old lady, of 97, who had Alzheimer's for seven years or something, but she was very bright. She was a pirate and a part -ren. And looked after her son, and then he went away for a week, and someone else came and looked up. And when he came back, she was a kind of acute, vegetative, apathy, which he didn't recognise him, just staring into space. And they discussed it before, and she'd said, yeah, she knew he sometimes took psychedelic, and so he gave her a microdose of LSD. And a now later, I thought, well, she's a little sparkling old lady with a full contact with him, saying, I feel so wonderful.

40:16Let's read some poetry now. Wow. You know, just like that man. And then he contacted me and said, what should he do? So I said, well, the first thing would be to get a doctor, to help you manage it. And then continue with the lower doses gets out of fact, which was ten millions of grams. I mean, such a small dose, you would hardly think he could have a defect. And that does something, which I'm doing research on now to us. I think it's to do with the connectivity between the different brain centers, which I think it sparks. And it brought her back, and her children's head was just remarkable. It's incredible.

41:04You know, and I've noticed the same things, I'm very... I've, in the middle of getting going on the autism study, because I think, for certainly with level one, they're lower degrees autism. I'm quite criticizing LSD, can be enormously beneficial. I've got a friend who's had experience of that. And wrote a very good book about it, I'd record autism and LSD. And so now I'm designing a study and getting his advice on the autism level of things. And I think that what I think is, what I'm fascinated in, and this is where I got this interest right back in 1966, what are the mechanisms underlying that makes LSD and the associated compounds have the effect it has?

42:10And obviously then there was no brain imaging. It was very difficult to see inside the brain. One could only theorize about it. Hypothic hypothesis. And so this Dutsamtist, who I had just a long relationship with, had this hypothesis that it constricts... It's a vasoconstrictor constricting the veins, so blood comes into the capillaries, can't get out, the capillaries blow up, and squeeze out the cerebral spinal fluid, and then slowly over the arse, gravity pulls the blood down again. That's... And you go back to normal. But during that period of more blood in the brain, you have more energy. Now I'm looking into...

43:08Now, how does it make more energy apart from providing more glucose in oxygen? And I've got a very, very interesting something which is coming up, which I'll tell you on my next talk about. Okay. And I'm very excited, because I think people, anyone you talk to would say that the psychedelics on D cannabis, they all work on the same direction. I think they all cannabis and the psychedelics have the same underlying mechanisms, but at different levels of... I think the constrictions, the psychedelics are much stronger, because you obviously get much higher, you can, on the psychedelic, but they're going in the same direction.

43:49And that's what the... Indoginously, a lot of the... I'd love to know more about that. I really have got time to do that, study into the underlying... So, returning and dopamine, all the different enzymes, hormones in the body, which can do these things, indoginously. And I mean, we know the saints got top high, Saint Teresa, her description of her orgasm with God. It's just like a description of a psychedelic trap kind of thing. So, it's the same experience, but either got indoginously, or throughout the ways. I think one of the things that's very interesting about cannabis too, is the difference between eating it.

44:36Yes. And when your body's producing 11 hydroxymetabolite from the eating of it, it can produce a very powerful psychedelic experience. Absolutely. And my experience is with it, where it's been very profound, or with the sensory deprivation tank. Yes. I have a sensory deprivation tank, and I do it with reddable marijuana. Right. And it's incredible. Right. And I think there's some I've got a friend who grows marijuana, and I think I'm very interested in the... I mean, he always wants me to work with one of the breeds he breeds. Because it's...it is like a psychedelic. And I thought I'd call it the...if I do it, the becky brain boost.

45:21Because it brings back his memory. It brings back... I think we're only beginning to scrape the top of the knowledge of how these compounds work and how we can use them for humanity. Well, it's just very unfortunate that research was stopped for so long. Yes. And we're very fortunate that there's people like yourself and maps, and some of the other groups that have continued research and have really pushed for the legalization of this. Yes. And I think now we've got a tipping point where I think we've got enough good research which really shows without doubt that we can get better results with using psychedelics to help and cannabis than we can get without it.

46:13And therefore, it's really criminal not to throw money out this research so we can get it out to the people quicker. Because access is, well, we need all those people who have got terrible things they're suffering from, which could be helped. And I mean, I do as a bunch of research that I can, but I'm a tiny organisation, four or five people, and tiny amounts of money we've got. And so to get this study going takes a year of paperwork and getting permissions, getting the compounds which are, at the moment doing, because I'm wanting to re -civilise LSD, because I think LSD is actually the purest and a cleanest of the compounds and in many ways the best, not against, I think, the Silasibon, the other ones are wonderful and they all have their different characteristics which are credibly valuable.

47:16But it's a complete madness that the one which is really in a way, the purest is kind of opening up a magnification of what we are with very little external colouring, I think, LSD is. And as it is completely non -toxic, you can give it to people. For ever, you know, it's not toxic, they aren't building up toxicity. A lot of the people are micro -dosing it now. It's a very, very common thing that micro -dosing of LSD and what they're reporting is an alleviation of anxiety, a heightened state of wellness, and of awareness, and of being in the moment, clarity, just from a micro -dose. Yes. I mean, we actually did the first scientific research on the micro -dose.

48:10I was collaborating with BASTRIX in Holland and we did it on 5, 10, 20, I think it was, doses. And I mean, it was amazing the results. It increases mood, it increases neuroplacicity, it increases neurogenesis, it increases anti -inflammatory, it increases tolerance to pain, vigilance, you know, all of these very valuable qualities in a micro -dose. And we could be using that with all sorts of indications which need actually more energy to kind of overcome certain deficits. And also it's a therapy application because you do it and you're essentially completely sober. Yes. In the sense of you can communicate, you see things clearly, everything is fine.

49:12Yes. But you have achieved a very elevated state. Absolutely. But you say everyone can do it. It's only those very few who know how I know I come across a new mobile people who I know someone who you know who has terrible meek red. And he had a micro -dose of his teeth and it curted and he has terrible problems in getting it. And it's not easy to get. No, I've got it. I'm not aware of that. I'm not aware of that. I've not known how you do the dog. You know what I mean? And what you're opening yourself up to and get on the dog job. Exactly. You don't know what the product is. I mean, what I've said about the, I mean, I've been 10 boring years talking at the UN in places not totally, but I went there trying to say we should have a drug policy which is based on science, on harm reduction, on human rights, you know, and cost effectiveness.

50:19I mean, you know, and not one which is a fact reverse. Right. Well, that's sort of the problem is cost. The real problem is there's a vested financial interest in keeping these things illegal. Yeah. Because there's a lot of psychological medications that people are taking. Psychiatric medications that people are taking that they really don't need. Yeah. Yeah. And it keeps a, companies and also prisons where the second biggest industry, because it's free labor and a lot of funding coming in. It's very twisted. No. It's awful. That aspect of it is terrifying. It is terrifying. And I mean, I've been added, I wrote a report on whatever you call them, the United Nations Convention on Drugs, which is obviously created by America, but 190 countries follow it.

51:10Actually, one of America's the one which is breaking it, but doesn't allow the country to break it. But not one word has been changed in the last 20 years. Which is crazy. Which is crazy. Especially when considering what we know now. Yeah. That's about the benefits of it. Were you friends with Terence McKenna? Did you know him? I knew him. Yes. Yes. What did you think of his stone ape theory? No, what was that? The stone ape theory is the theory that ancient hominids, when the rainforest were seeded into grasslands, they started experimenting with different food sources. One of the things they started doing was tipping over cow patties, they defined grubs and beetles, and on those cow patties, a psilocybin mushrooms grow.

51:55And that they started eating those, and that it increased visual acuity, it increased their rousal states, and that they also think glossolalia, and so many different, the formation of language, so many things came about from that. Yes. I mean, I wouldn't put it exactly the way he put it, but I would say that we know animals. We know that reindeer eat mushrooms. Yes. And as mushrooms are exactly, as they're toxic, the king reindeer drinks the pea of the drug which had gone through like the big boss of the village, which would get all the lower members of the village to take the psilocybin first or whatever, and then drink the urine of cleaned out, Got clean version.

52:47Well, that reindeer also does that. And so animals have taken it, and I think that psychedelics were an integral part of her mesapiens evolution, if you see what I mean. I don't think it's the only feature at all, but I think it's one of the major, you know, the development maybe, the mirror near on was very important in one or two other things, but I think that's a major lift, I think at the center of human culture is the experience of all states of consciousness. He attributed to the increase in brain size. He believed that, you know, because of the neurogenesis properties also psilocybin, he thinks that it may have contributed to the doubling of the human brain size over a period of two million years.

53:46I mean, I definitely think all of those things are showing... I mean, he was a poet, he wasn't... He expressed it, politically. Yes. So I mean, he talked a lot of rubbish, I know that, because I went to a lot of conferences with him, and I knew it really well. What did you think was rubbish? Well, I can't remember, but exaggerated things. The time zero, the... Whatever, you know, time wave zero. Yeah, but at the same time, he's a very good poet, and he had a lot of very deep thinking. Well, he was very compelling. Yeah, absolutely, and that's wonderful. Yeah, and he got a lot of people to be interested in psychedelics because he was so interesting to hear.

54:28And that was a very good presentation. Yeah, and unusual voice, too. Yes, wonderful. Aresh, yes. Yes, yes, very good. Very good.

54:40Yeah, but... Yeah, I think these compounds are integral to where her most happens is sculptor. And I think the disaster is that we started repressing it. I mean, obviously, even at the time of Jesus, it was kept secret. Yes. It was always kept secret, even as a loses, which went on for two thousand years. They kept it secret. Probably that's why Socrates had to commit suicide because he had it with his boyfriend at the dinner parties. You know, it was only to be used sacredly for the ceremonies. Yes. Which I actually think... I mean, so I think that's an incredibly important part of it, the ceremony.

55:32But I think also, as an elixir, when we get knowledgeable about how to use these compounds, they're just amazing health, mental health, elixirs. And I think... I mean, I'm obviously as I get older, very, very interested in how one can hopefully delay. And it's all based on blood, you know, as we get older, the blood supply gets worse to the brain. So how does one keep the supply of energy as topped up, basically, in the most beneficial way for the animal? Yeah. And I think, funny enough, the cerebral circulation is out of fashion. Because we discovered about the cerebral circulation, whenever we did 100, 200 years ago, it's considered old fashion.

56:41So modern science really isn't interested in the blood. Actually, you know, everyone knows blood goes up, blood comes down. But there's a very little interest in it. I mean, I worked with one of the leading Russian scientists who was on their space program, and was a leading world expert on cerebral circulation, involving cerebral spinal fluid and the relationship with cerebral spinal fluid and blood. And we worked together for about six years, then he died in COVID at 80 something, which was a tragedy, actually, because he also was very interested in the kind of related thing of the possible increase in pulsation brought about by trepination, which is a very ancient practice, which maybe brings the level of cerebral circulation back to a childhood level, which is higher than that.

57:42We should explain trepination to people, because trepination is a very ancient practice of drilling holes in one's head. And you decided to do it? You were in your 20s when you did this? Yes. And what influenced you to do that? Like, what was the motivation? Well, it was the theory of it, which induced me to do it. And in a way, I prefer not talking too much about it, not because I'm not in favour of researching it, but because I haven't done the research. So I can't say, look, this has been proven by science, which until then people didn't believe psychedelics worked. They said that's a placebo, fancy.

58:33Only when you were showing sounds, but anyway, the hypothesis is that when we are born, as we know, there's the fontanel of your holes, which close soon. And you can see the pulsation in the fontanel hole, the baby, you can see, when pulsing. And then the holes close, but the sutras, the bones, are quite flexible. So there's still the full pulsation, the full systolic pulsation is happening. Then as you grow together, slowly, slowly, some of the pulsation is suppressed, because it hasn't got the room to exist. So the hypothesis of trepination, which has been done now, the earliest skull found, is fun enough, the archaeology is Chavez, Toby, near Chavez, they found a Japan skull of 25 ,000 years old.

59:45And you can see if the person lived off to the trepination. Because the bone grown. Yes, and softens. So I haven't been studying it for the last 20 years, because I've been on to psychedelics too much, but I longed off, because it's very close to what I want to do. Do we know the origins of trepination? Do we know that it's the oldest operation in the world, that it's done all around the world, it's very much associated with religion, Mr. Sillm. Very often, the skulls which are to pound have a special burial. They are buried in a pot, or with silk around them, I'm showing that they were either priest cast or royal castles, or something.

1:00:37But they're very present in every culture, which is interested, not very present, but present. And the biggest mass of trepone skulls, fun enough, I think it's on the German touch border, I don't know why, but... From what time period? Prehistory. I'm afraid my memory's back, I haven't been studying it lately. But the thing is, wherever you look, there's... I mean, the third eye, the thing in your picture, the third eye. I was told by a heart, I think, is a visualization of the third eye. And one of the high... I can't go think of the word, the high aims of Buddhism and spirituality, is by meditation opening your whole in the skull, and that's in beautiful old Tibetan art, showing energy coming in and out of the hole in the head.

1:01:52So, it's always been... Why I think the priest cast was associated with it, because I think that on the whole, it was the priest cast which took the compounds to get high, whatever they were, mushrooms or... Oh God. And the danger of getting high when you come down, you have a bad time, maybe flip out, but you have a bad time. And I think it would probably observe that the people with a fractured skull or wound, or whatever it was, the hole in the head, actually slightly kind of rose to the top in the village, in the thing. They became the doctors or the shamans, or it seems to have an advantage, because like in Mexico, everyone grows up with skulls, you know, their skull.

1:02:47There's... These day of the dead skulls, they're not real. They're... No. Right. Well, I've seen... I mean, because that's very interested, I've seen quite a lot of skulls. In fact, I've even got one, which is... I think it's... I can't quite remember... 400, 700 BC. And R is chieftain, it's meant to be. And this got actually six holes. Wow. And why anyone wants to do six holes? I have no idea. Some of them are quite large too. Yeah, yeah. But I think... I personally think that the change it happens with one hole, all you need is for the member entropy, I've to expand on the heartbeat. And I think what the restoration of the point of trepination is allowing that expansion on the heartbeat to the full expansion of the systolic pressure, which the child has, until it starts to close over, can the 13 onwards, the child comes down, 21 of the average, the skull closes.

1:03:56And that's often when the mental problems start after twenty -one psychosis and all of those things. You'll just get a slightly lower level in terms of energy for the brain. And what I want to do, it's a very easy result to do trepination because people are doing it in hospitals every day, by the thousand, at any brain operation, first you have to depend on the skull. So it's happening all the time. So we could very easily actually, I work with some very top -level scientists in Mexico and I want to get that study going again. And particularly doing it for headaches and migraine, because it used it historically.

1:04:41In my father's psychopaedia, which used whatever 1912 psychopaedia, and it was something like that. It said trepination has blah, blah, blah, been done throughout history. And it is still currently being done with apparent success for the treatment of mental conditions, migraine and da -da -da. So until in the First World War, they did the First Lobotomy. And that stopped trepination as just an old wirestale. So in a sense, they threw out the baby with the bathwater. And I think that there is something, then it's quite easy to do. So I'm trying to find the possibilities and I really want to do this research with trepination.

1:05:40Funnily enough, years ago, I was at Burning Man, and I had a camp in, well, with his father, was an old friend of mine, and he got a lot of really important people to sign up that they wanted to be to Pant. And we were going to do, and you know, so getting people to Pant, leaving the inner research program. But it never happened. But what I want to say is that, for instance, Jamie, my husband got to Pant. And... How long ago did he do that? How long ago? How long ago did he do it? Long time ago. I mean, soon after we got together, and very difficult of her, and we were looking for someone in Egypt and found a wonderful surgeon there, actually, who did it, who's very interested in the kind of mathematics of pyramids and things.

1:06:40And he had terrible headaches all his life. He lost a day or two weeks on headaches. After he trepination, he doesn't have headaches. Wow. And I think it just gives back to the body and the brain. That extra pulsation, which means, I mean, you have it from all that exercise you do. So constantly, you're getting that extra blood to the brain through your exercise. But for those of us who don't do all that exercise, it's good to have alternative ways of keeping the blood going. That's got to be a big factor in the runner's high. Because in the runner's high, they achieved these states of elevated consciousness.

1:07:30Yeah, I met one, I'm sure you've been plenty. But who runs, I mean, I think he said 140 or so. Some enormous number, a hundred miles or something. And he said at a certain point, he had a breakthrough where he got into a kind of real altered state of consciousness. And I'm sure, we can do all these things endogenously. I mean, obviously that's what meditation is doing. It's training you to do your own way of getting high. And monks and people, they productively spend 30 years of their life doing it. And I think that's wonderful. But for those of one who would like a quicker technique, I think there's nothing wrong than learning to use a non -toxic substance to help us get up there.

1:08:30And so I think, funny enough, I think the new, how I look on it, it's all about feeding the brain with enough energy to conduct a working way, to produce that mental cell energy, so that we can keep our function close to the optimal. That's what we want. Or anyway, not allowing it to drop to the earth. And that's what I think is the purpose in a way. Not, they're not there in your purpose at all. I mean, I actually think psychedelics have value in a lot of different non -sthispyric areas. One is self -realizations, experience, beauty, love of beauty, love of sound, love of people, love, I think it increases compassion and empathy and nature love.

1:09:38And all of those, rather good human qualities. So I think it has the sensible use of the psychedelics. And by that I also mean cannabis, I mean the consciousness altering techniques. And I think those people who do it purely by meditation are to be very much admired because it's wonderful not to need an outside thing to be able to do it within your own self, like a hot bath and a freezing bath or any of those techniques, obviously, change your level of consciousness by bodily reactions. Yes. But also I think the use of the psychoactive compounds, we can tune it so it's a very, very carefully regulated, I mean self -regulated operation.

1:10:44You could dial it in. Yeah, you can control it. Yeah. And I feel very grateful for many things in my childhood. But one of them was that I was my father's companion and he was a diabetic. And he was an artist, so he didn't like his sugar level going high because then you lose your sight, and his tarot was going blind. So he always kept his sugar level low. So every day he was getting short of carbohydrates falling in a ditch. If he was driving a car, he'd over the centre, roundabouts. You know, he did all sorts of funny things when he was short of carbohydrates. And my job was putting the sugar in his mouth.

1:11:26And so I got a very good relationship of knowledge of how the glucose level controls your level of concentration if you like, and how important it is. So when Bart, this Dutch scientist, told me his hypothesis of psychedelics increasing the volume of blood in the brain capillaries, and particularly if you're doing cognitively demanding activity, you use a lot of glucose and the sugar level falls. Therefore, you need to keep the sugar level normal by increasing the intake. And actually, all those years, before it was legal, I'm really left on LSD. When I say, LSD, I meant on big doses every day.

1:12:21We were really, really, lived, and I say, go, how are I, it's myself? On myself, I was doctor and patient, and it was a whole of whatever, Freud, bike. Did you take a journal during that time? Not a journal, but I did diagrams of, you know, and I watched myself, I overcame, for instance. I was very tall as a child. And I took a brother from Canada. He did being taller than everyone else. So, about 30, and I started smoking cigarettes behind the bushes. So I was pretty addicted by the time I met Bart when I was 22 or 23, I remember. I pretty addicted, and he said, what a horrible happy it is, was mine, smoking.

1:13:13So then I said, well, I'll give up. And so I took a trip of LSD with the intention. I'll stop. It's a horrible habit. Just give it up. And I never smoked another cigarette. And so... Do you remember when you did that, when you took the LSD with the intention of giving up cigarettes? Do you remember what happened to you? Do you remember? Yeah, I do. I remember smoking a cigarette during the trip and thinking, yeah, it was disgusting. I remember when I was a child, young child smoking. Maybe I'm feeling a bit sick. I want that to repress, feeling a sickness. And then I realized, gosh, it makes me feel sick.

1:13:54Yeah. And then yeah, it's horrible. It's horrible. Yeah, yeah. So I gave up. And 40 years later, whenever I was talking to Roland Giffith, it's funny enough, I had... I think it was $10 ,000 to do a research. I had a research program. So I rented it. Roland at that time. So now I got this. And he said, oh, what would you like to do? What would you suggest? So I said, oh, what about overcoming nicotine addiction? I did that with LSD. We could do it with Silasibon time. And that was the basis of the study, which is... I mean, I remember the first, because the first law was at 80 % success rate. And yeah, 80 % success rate.

1:14:43I don't know what it is now. But it's an extraordinary successful, because actually nicotine's more difficult to give up than heroin, because we're always repeating it. So I experimented in those years, when we were living on LSD, we worked. That was our passion. We were studying the human brain and the self. The T -shirt I've got for you is the motto. No, thyself. And that was what I was doing, trying to understand how we work better at that level, and how we can enhance our working.

1:15:30And I just think there's a lot more to do. And we have to be learned about how we can... If we concentrate more on giving the brain the energy it needs to function optimally, how can we help that happen? Obviously, exercise is one. Yes. I've always slightly avoided the exercise. Being lazy. But I have to say, you know, there are alternatives which can be used to the health of the person. And I think it's a tragedy that one can't talk about things more openly. Yes. It's not easier to carry out research, because I know having done it for now over 20 years, over 50 years, trying to do research into psychedelics, how difficult it is.

1:16:34I mean, in order for me to do it, I realised I had to stop being a man of fielding. No letters of to my name, no money, so who am I? And become a foundation. Funnily enough, it was a very clever concept to artwork, because in England it's very kind of liberal England. You pay whatever it is. And you become a foundation, a thousand pounds, I think, or something. So, I'm near you're a foundation. You don't have to have any money. You're just a foundation. Registered. The skull and that register. And then I got the top scientists in the world, ten, fifteen of them, including Albert, Albert Hoffman and Satish Organ, but the main important buttons were the established ones like...

1:17:27I would always look at his name. He was wonderful, Colin Blakemore, who was a kind of top neuroscientist in the world at that point. And he very much battled what we were going to start a centre of Oxford study again, but that was going to cost four million, and we couldn't get it. And there is other high -level scientists, sir. I had a very impressive advisory board. And so then I gave seven of... Here is a seminar at the House of Lords, where I had presidents, blah, blah, blah, all the head of NIDA, head of the Russian people, and all of the other cells, they could come. So, 70 invited people came to discuss global drug policy.

1:18:11That made quite a difference. That went on for ten years or something. And then I went to the... whatever national... What would you call it? Anyway, I'd invite certain governments and things on drug policy. United Nations went there regularly, trying to change things. So, through this foundation? Yeah. If you don't mind, when you had your own personal experience with trepidation, what was that like? What did it do for you? Yeah. It was... Sorry, can I do one try? Sure. I remember... I mean, no one wants to drill a hole in the head on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon. I can tell you, it did not.

1:19:04It's something I'm a very cautious person. And so, I... I had a deep interest in it, because I had very... deep understanding of the hypothesis of blood supply. And I was interested in researching it.

1:19:28Then, my partner, Joe Mellen, at that time, he was very keen on Japaning himself. And he... I was a second -sum, so he was a bit more casual, cavalier about it than I was. And so, I had quite a few miss shots. Oh, no. Before, he finally got through. And, fun enough, then I did notice a difference. And the difference is very subtle. You really have to know a person to notice it. But how I'd express it is, it slightly lowers the neurotic characteristics, if you see what I mean. They don't eliminate them in any way, but it lowers it. And so, having seen the difference, because Bart was to pamphine you him, so I never experienced the change.

1:20:33But when I saw the change in Joe, I thought, well, it does make a difference. So, I had thought I'd find a doctor. So, I'd spent four years looking for a doctor to pamphine me. And I had people who said they were, and then they said, I've got an industrial hub, I'm holding this, I've had to give an arse -wan, or... Or, you know, and, oh, it could be bad for my career, and Harley Street, if it came out, or if you died, or you know, whatever. And so, it didn't happen. So, then I said, well, I'm a sculptor. I'll sculpt my own skulls and see what happens. So, I really studied it, because I'm a very, very cautious person.

1:21:13And in London, strangely, the shop was called Down Brothers, it's a off -Holy Street, and has all the instrumentation for trepidation. Very old shop, actually. And charming staff there, who showed me in detail how you'd Japan. Because I went in as an interested observer. And so, I learned how to do it, very cautious with it. There are three layers of bone, and, et cetera, et cetera, I learned how to do it. So, I felt competent to do it. And that took quite a long time deciding I was competent and confident I could do it. So, I decided to make a film of it, because I thought that would can separate me from the unpleasant effort doing such a silly thing.

1:22:04And so, I made fun enough, my great aunt just died and gave me 70 pounds, and I bought a lovely little movie, Super 8 camera, and it set it up. And I had my beloved birdie always with me, so he was an observer of this thing. And there was an all sorts of story, which I went waste of time, which was amazing, because we were asked to a party by rather kind of guardian, journalist, top journalist in England, for the Saturday night. I had been planning on doing it on the Sunday, but I moved it forward. So, I thought it would be good publicity for the movement, if I am. Anyway, I moved it forward, and then there was electricity strike in England.

1:22:57So, if I hadn't moved it forward, the electricity would have been cut, which was just kind of good little trickle, beating fate to do it. So, anyway, I did it very, very carefully with a hand -trap hand in the mirror, perfect little operation. What was it a drill? Electric drill, but I used a ball with a flat bottom, so it couldn't damage the membrane, because of what was frightened of is damaging the membranes, the rounding, the brain. I mean, I don't want to go into detail with the detour, but all I can say, I did it, I knew the second I was through, because the second you were through, there's no resistance.

1:23:38And it had a flat bottom, I say it couldn't. I mean, it's not something more wants to do at all, but it's kind of like people go skiing, people go horse riding, just the same danger. You know, it's a danger, possibly, the infection is so many dangers. And I always say no one should do it themselves, if the foolish thing to do. But then, when I had finished, I bound it up. We went out and had a steak for dinner to replace the lost blood, and then went to this party. And the photograph, which I didn't know if you know, with Birdie on my shoulder was the evening, that came out of the Super 8 movie.

1:24:28I've seen the images, but I haven't seen, apparently you've never released the video. I never released it, and the person who made the film, actually, as always, can't one. So I'd forbidden to let the images out on public thing, because I didn't want anyone doing it. And funnily enough... Why did you not want anyone doing it? Because I didn't think self -trobation is a good idea. But you did it. Yeah, but I'm me.

1:25:04You know, I took trouble not to. And funnily enough, then, when I did an artwork in New York about it, it peers one. Because at that period, I was trying to educate the world through art. And I had this exhibition in Pierce Fun, of the slides. It was enormous great. It was like an Egyptian tomb. I love it. It was a dorms room they gave me. And, apparently, people were queuing up, including people like Warhol and Beno LeBetlucci couldn't get in. It was a kind of quite a hot movie at that point. And people fainted, it said, in the paper, like, right plums falling to the crowd. But it then, 60 minutes, did a film of it, of me.

1:25:56And wanted to film me back at Betley with Birdie, with my pigeon, who was never in a cage, or was always free. And, they flew me home on corncork, because I was pregnant with my eldest son, Rocky. And to film me with Birdie. And Birdie was a very strong sense of justice. And I had broken the cold of love by going away. So if I went away, he punished me until the punishment had been done. So when they flew me back on corncork, he wouldn't come down from the house top. Anyway, they made this film, and he was very pleased, very nice director. And then it was, as it always, when one did something which was well done.

1:26:50It was not allowed to go out, because the lawyers said there will be an epidemic of people travelling themselves. Were you worried about that? Were people copying you? No. No. Not really. Just too crazy. Yeah, too crazy. What was your personal experience like, what was it like after it was over? Sorry, you asked me that. How I described it at the time, was it was like the tide coming in. There was a kind of stillness in the brain, that internal, endless, internal conversation of basically the eager calm down. Now, of course, we can explain all of those things could happen anywhere just from relaxation of having that finished years.

1:27:49Not blah, blah, blah. So, what difference does it make? I would say it makes a slight difference. It's slightly like the energy I mean, I watch children. Children have that extra energy. You know, they do those leaps and lads and play around and add energy. Adults don't. Energy is a wonderful thing. And when I became 21, I'd had one of my trips to Egypt where I live very wild. And I thought I got Bill Hartz here, which is the one you get, and drains your energy. And I went, when I got, I was 21. I then got myself tested thinking I'd caught it, but I hadn't. Then I realized that that was adulthood.

1:28:42It's a slightly lower level. And very often, that's when people have their first schizophrenic experience or some mental thing after that. It's a down, it's a slight down. There's a slight exuberance. And that's what I noticed after. But the difference is so slight. I couldn't swear on it at all. How long did the difference last? Well, you don't, you only notice the difference. You don't notice the change. Do you see what I mean? Yes. So now I can't see, have I got any advantages? My whole clothes, is it open? I can't say. Have you ever got looked at to see if it's closed? No. I tried to actually, and it was very difficult to do.

1:29:39I'd like to do that. It's a very small hole though, right? Well, it was that big. Okay, so a quarter of an inch, a couple of millimeters. It was wide enough. All you need is for the heartbeat to express itself. That is all about the expression of the heartbeat. And it takes half an hour. If it was shown to increase cranial compliance, which is what I worked on with this professor, Yuri Boskel -Enker, who was a leading professor in those things, he thought, yes, it increases cranial compliance. And that's just that slightly healthier state to be in. And so it takes half an hour to do it. In hospitals, the last stuff, it's certain, doesn't have to do it.

1:30:31Do you know what I mean? It's a nothing operation. So if that can slightly raise the level of energy going to the brain for the rest of the life, it's a valuable tool. But do you think that these people that have multiple holes in their head is there a point of diminishing returns from the brain? I should think they had big rain or some terrible thing, which went on. And they were trying to evade it. And tried to, oh, yeah, I think something like that. Because I don't see the logic of it, says you only need one to get the expansion back. But that's why I actually don't talk about it now, because it sounds so crazy.

1:31:21Right, that's the problem is that it sounds crazy. Yeah, yeah, it's not good optics. And tell you got it proven, which I actually seriously want to do, because what I do is on research with people with headaches, migraines, headaches, whatever, some form, because that's one of the things that all cultures who did it, one of the things they did it for was headaches and insanity. In the old days, they said, it's letting devils out. And the other indication is letting light in, because often people in the mystical tradition were Japan. So I actually, before I hit the bucket, I would really like to have done that research because maybe no one else will be motivated to do it.

1:32:14Right. Has anyone been motivated to do self -trapination that you were friends with or that you were a couple? Yeah, I know quite a lot. Not a lot. And then they started saying, I was thirsty, but I didn't want to burn anyone. I wouldn't dream of it. You know what I mean? So that's why I found a very good brain surgeon and team in Mexico, who did it for certain people. And people wrote back saying it had altered their life. I think, if I was asked, do I think it has effect or not? I would say I wouldn't be humiliated if it didn't, but I think it does. That's my opinion. For instance, it changed my dream pattern after I had done it.

1:33:06I used to have very anxious dreams, which were very often about birdie, my beloved birdie, getting killed in some way. After the Japanese, I didn't have those anxious dreams. So that's something which I couldn't control, you see. Anyway, I think it makes a difference. So I'm in favor. But we need to do the research. Yeah, it's a fascinating subject. It's just fascinating that it's existed for so long. Yes. And very much associated with religious practice, basically, whatever. You know, very often, funnily enough, there's in Mongolia, some Japan's gals, and nearby is a very beautiful, this very early, I forget BC, long 700 maybe, a beautiful basket with cannabis, rather high TAC cannabis in it.

1:34:05I mean, I think they go together, the trepination, you know, like in Mexico. There were lots of trepinations, and they went with the spiritual practices. It's very fascinating to me that from the moment human beings have discovered altered states of consciousness, whatever that was, that it's always been a part of this desire to sort of escape the confines of modern consciousness, or of natural consciousness. I used to kind of slightly expand. Yes. So I need to get back the childhood experience. Yeah, joy, wonder. Yeah, joy, wonder. I do think it's that, and I think it's still that, and I think that's a very healthy urge.

1:34:57Yes. And I think therefore we should, I really seriously think we should do research on trepination, which I can very easily do. It just needs ethical approval, not so many problems. Do you think that it's warranted, do you think that the use of psychedelics and psychedelic therapy can replace that, that it's not necessary? No, I don't think it replaces it. I think there, as we were on the ancient times, there, there, there, a complimentary. They're both moving in the same direction of trying to increase the energy supply to the brain. Yeah. Basically. And I think that's very key for our future survival, because at the moment I think we're at a very critical time, because artificial intelligence is getting greater than our own, etc., etc.

1:36:04There's all sorts of forces of which kind of build the danger up. So we need internal growth to balance that technological growth. Yeah. It's such a strange contradiction that today, in a day where that growth is so necessary, these substances are so demonized. Yes. It's a tragedy. And I really think it's the time when America is a force which forced it upon us for all the wrong reasons, and we all know it, and America knows it. It was during the civil rights movement. They were trying to arrest black panthers and the civil rights activists and all the anti -war activists, and that was one of the ways they could do it.

1:36:55And it's the way to enter any country you want to, like Afghanistan or Latin America, any country you couldn't go and raid and spray and kill and capture. It was wonderful. The CIA loved it. And so it was... Which is so ironic considering that they did so many LSD experiments. Yeah. And then through the people who were troublesome out of the wind and said they wanted to fly. You know that, such a difficult... I mean, it's a tragedy, the history of what it says. I mean like the... What you call the midwives used psychedelics to help stop bleeding. They realized the vasoconstrictive property of these compounds.

1:37:45So they were used in childbirth. And the midwives were very awful for the people who were burnt for witchery. And the ironic thing is when the witches were born, then the villagers got a plague. They called it the witch's curse of St. Vitus' dance where you shake into the learn, then you finally die. And that's... That's the Urgot poisoning. Because the witches went out with their hats at the full moon. And their hats would show the glow of the Urgot from the light of the moon on the Urgot. Had the hats... Well, they were kind of... Or if they hid them. I mean that's I think where the hat story came.

1:38:37Because they collect the Urgot by night, because it's phosphorescence. Oh. From the moon. And then the burning of the witches, which was part of inquisition, basically. Then they had these awful plagues of St. Vitus' dance, which was called the curse of the poiled witch, who had been using their medication to help childbirth. So it's quite ironic how the authorities translate it wrongly. I mean, basically it was because the witch wasn't gathering the Urgot off the wheat. So the villagers were eating the poison and therefore getting sick from the bread. Yeah, that's a... That was to be one of the most fascinating things about the Salem witch trials.

1:39:36Yeah. Because they found out that there was a late frost and when they examined whatever crops that they could find back, then they did find Urgot in them. Right. And they think that that was partially responsible for that whole hysteria. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was very much intermingled with the Protestants' inquisition between the religions and the whole thing. He came at the same time. Yeah. So there's been a kind of tragedy. I mean, the point is those in part are actually don't want other people taking these compounds, like the Americans didn't want their soldiers taking acid. Right. Because they made the soldiers say, gosh, actually I prefer to be in the park with my girlfriend.

1:40:20Right. Then some bloody wood far away getting shot. Right. You know, it's pretty common sense. Yeah. Yeah.

1:40:31So it's a tragedy of the human fate. I mean, the tragedy of humanity is that we've developed this compensatory mechanism, which have made us the genius that we are and we can do all these brilliant things we do. But it also has made us this psychotic animal, which is capable of great self harm. And somehow we need to balance it. Yeah. And that's why I rather like the phrase, the psychedelic age. In the sense, I don't mean everyone taking sati -galic and having a party. I mean, learning the art of how to control your level of consciousness and then how to control that level so you could keep your concentration.

1:41:27I don't go in for a theory, you know, turn on, then I drop out. I say, turn on and drop in. Yeah. You know, do be creative. Yeah, that was the problem with Leary that his philosophy and what he was espousing to people was, people felt like it was dangerous to civilization. That people were going to ruin their lives. They were going to drop out and they were going to become part of these hippie communes. Yes. It was all bad publicity, badly played. Yeah. And in those early years, in the whatever mid -60s, when I started taking psychedelics seriously, we took it for working. I mean, the stones would be playing a half mile away from our flat where I lived and still lived in London.

1:42:20We didn't bother to go to them because we were having set fun doing our work, which was studying the brain on acid. You know, who go from my bobble? I think. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think that the use of absorption, you know, some other people know how incredibly inspiring for work the use of psychedelics can be. Yeah. You couldn't see things you would never saw before, you see. Because suddenly having more of the brain simultaneously active as our images showed the two. You can see this is the ordinary brain. This is the brain on psychedelics. I've got those beautiful things came from our study. The circus, do you know the ones?

1:43:10I've got a picture with my back. You can see the difference in the brain. And that can be used for whatever you're doing. For whatever creative, thoughtful process. You've suddenly got all that extra brain power to dedicate towards what you're passionate about. It's a superpower for stand -up comedy. For stand -up comedy so many of my comedian friends use it to write. Yes, absolutely. And I have an intimate relationship with Jamaica and the deep, deep divers. There's someone on the beach who said the one who wins that prize is his best friend. And she could stay down there much longer than the best friend can.

1:43:59Because he smokes very heavily before he goes down, cannabis. Yeah. And he said that enables him to stop breathing for a much longer period. You know, so I think whatever you do, you can go, you've got more passion or energy. So that's the adult brain. On the left. And what are these lines representing? It's connectivity between different centers in the brain. So this is when you're on the psychedelic, it doesn't matter if it's psilocyte or don't LSD. When you're on, you've certainly got this much more intimate connection between the different parts of the brain. And so I think it needs training to learn to control that increased.

1:44:59It's like riding an incredibly powerful horse. You have to learn how you control it. The brain is the same thing. If you've just gone take that, you can have a wonderful experience looking at the stars or having another fail. Listed abuse. All of those things can be wonderful. But if you want to use it for cognitive discipline, which actually uses a lot of glucose, because it's very late in development. So it's not part of the autonomic nervous system. It's part of the cognitive nervous system, which burns glucose to get the energy to concentrate. And so that's the importance of taking the vitamin C and keeping the sugar level normal.

1:45:47Can I ask you a question about that? What about ketones? I know many people get on a ketogenic diet and their brain produces ketones and they feel intellectually that's a superior fuel. I think probably it is a very good fuel. I think there's a lot more will be constantly learning about how you can energize the brain in better healthier ways. But I think a secret, a basic secret, which I felt I was given the keto in 1966 when I learned about how one can increase the blood supply to the brain and therefore give it all that extra energy to do, have all the brain functioning. And then it's a whole new art.

1:46:44How do you use that? Yes. Productively. But I mean that's like being a magician, a brilliant magician, they have to practice. So to skill. I always say to take psychedelics, you have to be much more disciplined than not to take them. It's much easier, not to take them in a sense. I agree with that. I think people have a misconception about what you're doing when you're taking psychedelics or when you're taking, including cannabis. Because I think the common misconception is that you are avoiding reality and that you are somehow another giving yourself a crutch. I don't think it's that at all. And I think that with discipline, the use of psychedelics through discipline, it allows you to experience these states and get something from them and pull something from them and apply it to normal consciousness.

1:47:44I totally agree. It gives you an extra power like riding a more powerful horse. Yes. You've got in your brain power, there's more there. Yes. And so I mean, I find if I've been a really beautiful place, if I've been Egypt or all those wonderful places with incredible beauty, it's almost and it's salt to the place, not to be at your optimum. I say that all the time. I say that because when I go to art galleries, I never go to an art gallery. No, I quite agree. Yeah, I always can. No point. You don't. I also feel that, I mean, people don't like this, but I'm going to say it anyway. I like to be high around my children because when I'm around my children, I'm fascinated by them.

1:48:33Yeah, absolutely. And things that maybe would be frustrating perhaps if I was sober instead are charming. Yeah. And I find them interesting and I'm fascinated by their mindset and talking to them. And you have much more in common with them. Yes. Because you are on the same wavelength. So you stay in contact with them. I do have it with my children. And they were the greatest pleasure. And I remember being at one of those conferences in Palais, Cale, something, Psychedelic conference. And I think it was Terence McKenna's wife actually was giving lecture or giving a talk very nicely. And how, when she was pregnant, she gave up everything.

1:49:15And I couldn't hate public speaking. I'm putting up my finger because I wanted to say, well, actually, when I was pregnant, I didn't because I actually think it's good for my health. I've taken enough of it that I really think it's good. It's not like alcohol or cigarettes. No. And my children, I'm proud of my children. And, you know, they are children of parents who understood the benefits of all -terrain states of consciousness. Yeah, I've had those conversations with my children, my youngest who are 13 and 15. And they're at that age where, you know, children want to experiment with alcohol.

1:49:59They want to experiment with drugs. And I have conversations with them about ones that you should avoid. And the dangers of things that may be contaminated with fentanyl. Yeah, absolutely. And that these organic compounds, as long as you know the source that you're getting them from. Whether they're psilocybin or particularly marijuana. They're not what everybody is telling you they are. Yeah. And that's what's criminal. And I do think criminal about the government because all the governments, the knowledge is out there. These are non -toxic. The ones which are non -toxic. Yeah. And like in England, people on the mass can only buy the illegal market in cannabis.

1:50:46It's taken over by certain breeders who breed only rubbish, stuff, an insensible person with no dream of smoking. Very high THC cannabis, which is its shit. And it's not good for young people to smoke that. Right. And it's the authorities, which are forcing the young people into that if they choose to smoke. And I did a paper for design for the government saying that if they, as I hope they do, regulate cannabis, they should make very low tax for THCBD balance. And as it gets more and more strong, tax it more because that will incline people to stop smoking. It's extremely high. Do you think there's dangers in smoking a very high tea?

1:51:43I mean not full grownups who know how to handle it. Right. But I think it can be dangerous. I believe so too. And I think there's also some correlations between that and schizophrenic breaks, that people who perhaps have a tendency towards schizophrenia when they have high doses of THC. They've had very traumatic experiences. Yeah. I think it should be encouraged a nice balance of THCBD. Yeah. Well, that's one of the good things about the legalization in California in particular because they've relegated these edibles in particular. It's a very sensible dose. Right. It's just comfortable, not too bad.

1:52:27Yeah. And especially in conjunction with all the cannabinoids with CBD and it's... Yeah, wonderful. And that's such a wonderful step forward. And it's wonderful it's happening in America but also quite ironic that America is still forbidding the rest of the world. Yeah, it's crazy. To do the same thing. Yeah, it's so... And it really does need to change because it's holding up humanity in sense. Well, I'm hoping that with education the younger people are realizing what it actually is and as these people go into public service. Yes. They will go into public service with this new understanding of it.

1:53:04Yeah, absolutely. And I think I absolutely commend you on the wonderful information you give to people by having such a wide reach and letting people who you think are right say what they think and slowly, slowly, it will seep through and come to the top and be the dominant. Well, there's a propaganda narrative that's just very unfortunate that has permeated our society. Yes. And it's incorrect. Yeah, exactly. That narrative of the brain, LSD and the thing, cooking the brain in the frying pan. Yeah, this is your brain I'm interested in. I remember once having lunch with Peter Teal and he was saying he was grown up with that and couldn't get over it.

1:53:51Right. I mean, what rubbish? Rubbish. I think there's another component which is so powerful which is less toxic. Well, it's very difficult to me that that all took place during the 80s and the 80s culturally, it's some of the worst artwork and music that the American society's ever produced during the influence of the just say no era. Yes. And the 60s were a period of cultural growth and change. And people always put down the 60s. But actually, all the things we love, not all the things, but a lot of the things we love came out of the 60s, spirituality, Eastern spirituality, yoga, health, music, comedy.

1:54:38Even the automobile design. And it was all on Elisdegro. Yes. It was fueled at changing. And so I promised I would often, I said, I can't remember what that was, but I'll reinstate your favorite child. You know, Elisdegro is a wonderful creation because it's non -toxic. It's so controllable. You know, if the governments were doing what a government should do, which is basically looking after their citizens like a good mother or father, looks after their children. Yeah. And therefore teaching them what they need to know like our children. I'm never frightened my children might become addicted because they know.

1:55:27They're from the earliest age. Yes, they've been educated. Don't, don't, don't. You know, city. Right. And also they benefit from you discussing like your addiction to cigarettes and how you got over it. Yeah. Yes. And they saw how one, when one did, when it was legal, you see compounds, one was productive with it. Yes. And it increased one's passion. I mean, I'm a workaholic. So as am I. Yeah. And I'm a user. Yeah. So it makes one want to achieve the work one can do. Yes. Yes. I'm fascinated with American automobile design. I'm a collect old cars. Yeah. And there's a time period between 1965 and 1970 where there's some of the most amazing cars.

1:56:20I really had to. Ever. And it's directly correlates. I understand. It drops off a cliff after 1970. I understand. It's fascinating because those cars from 1965 to 1970 to this day are the most cherished collectors. It's not interesting. It's the most beautiful designs. Yes, that's very interesting. Fun enough in this talk I'm giving a few days time at Denver. I'm saying you can see the markings of civilization. You can see which civilizations had integrated all to states of consciousness, which hadn't by their creativity production. Rather like in a tree you can see by the rings which are the earth of drought and which are the rains and sunshine.

1:57:11And that's exactly it what you're saying in that, in the peak of beauty and cars. I want to show you something just so you can see this. I want Jamie pull up a 1969 Mustang and then I want you I want to see a 1980 Mustang. The difference is so stark. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. And it's so clear that that time period directly correlates with the sweeping psychedelics acts of 1970 where they stopped. Yeah. People using these things they made them forbidden and dangerous. And that is a 1969 Mustang. It's one of the most beautiful things that I've ever designed. Yeah. It's gorgeous. Yeah. I mean I look at that thing and I'm like my god it's perfect.

1:57:54It's artwork. Now show me a 1980. Now this is just disgusting. Look at that cranking piece of shit. What is that? What the hell is that? Imagine that you went from that to that. Absolutely. What the hell happened to us? Something's wrong. Something's very very wrong. And people attributed it to Sir Abhin. God it's so gorgeous. Yes. And people attributed it to so many different things. And one of the things that you attribute to is like gas being you know more efficient gas vehicle. But not true because you could still make it beautiful. Yeah. And that is not beautiful. That's ugly pieces. Yeah.

1:58:31You're absolutely right. And I think that's such a beauty. And I think you can tell it in culture. I mean like whatever in well the beautiful cultures. Sure. You can see they were high. Yes. They had that. There's lines in Chauvet. Yeah. Couldn't have been done by people who weren't high. You know it's too intuitive. It's an intuitive expression. I think one of the things psychedelics do is increase the intuitive part of the brain. And now I've got a new program at the moment I'm doing which is looking at LSD both in high doses and microdoses. In the best and latest technology in the world can give.

1:59:25So in the high doses I'm wanting to do a research on the mystical experience and anomalous experiences. And it will be the first research to use a Tesla 7. Do you know what I mean by MRI? Yes. It's usually a Tesla 3. All the research I've done is with a Tesla 3. Is this FMRI? Yeah. And then one does whatever. How many people let's say 20 and one averages the results between the 20. What I'm going to do in this other one is use a 7 Tesla and personalize the data. So it will only be person by person looking at the data. And then it will be 7 Tesla and a mega. A mega is the one which does that electrical.

2:00:16You can see which centers the brain are communicating with his Tesla. And then we'll have a very deep psychological one. So you'll know when the person has some expression of the mystical experience or some other experience. And you can see what's happening in the brain waves and the blood and markers. So one will have it much more carefully analyzed than ever before. Because apart from just pure fascination interest, it's valuable to know how do we encourage people who are having a cycle? Like a delicate assisted experience to overcome treatment, resistant depression or whatever. To have that mystical experience.

2:01:05So the more we can learn about how does that grow? How does one help the fruition of that experience the better? And then say, well, that's at the top level looking at those experiences. I mean, it's going to be so exciting which parts of the brain to look at? And the whole different areas of the hemisphere, the blood supply, the rich parts of the brain are actively activating in the highest way in that experience. I once did an experience with a very high level Indian meditator lady. And she really wanted to help me. And it was in a mega, one of those ones, Herdwa. And she told me after she came out of beaming.

2:01:54She'd had the most wonderful mystical experience while she was in the machine. She said, her best experience I've had with God for a long time. And it showed a great birth of gamma in the right cerebellum, which is very fascinating because everyone thinks the cerebellum is just nothing basic balance and all those sort of things. But actually, I think it's a very highly, much more fascinating than that. And so a mystical experience is rather like a toad in the sun, sitting on the sun, in a state of blissful happiness. You know, very fascinating to actually know about more these different experiences that we can assume and experience.

2:02:47And how hopefully we can map them. And therefore learn how to get them more. One of the things I was fascinated about with you is your discussions of your experiences on LSD playing Go. Yes, that's very exciting. Which is really interesting, because you said it made you a better player. And Go is an incredibly complex game. And that's why, well, for the last 50 years, I wanted to, and I will do a research on Go. But it's very difficult to find Go players who are used to functioning on a high level LSD. You see what? Because people don't have the whole. Right. But I've got that in place. Because Go, as you know, is a pattern recognition, is an intuitive game of pattern recognition.

2:03:38I've never played that. It's a wonderful game. Once you get into it, high, you rarely get addicted to it. Because it's behind everything. You could play life on the Go board. And you have a handicap, so you know exactly where you are with the person you play against. A numerical handicap? Yeah. The better player plays with white stone. So the worst player has its black, which is slightly more obvious. So it's a better visual, but it's slightly less good psychologically. And then they have handicaps. Every three games you win, they get one stone, put down on the board first, advance. So anywhere, we played passionately in the early 60s when LSD was legal.

2:04:31And at the end of the day, we were doing brain studies all day or whatever we were doing. And then Go was... And we wrote down every game we played. So we knew who won the last score. And anywhere, I was slightly better player than my opponent. But if I wasn't LSD and he wasn't, his handicap went up from three to six. So that's a lot of winning nine games. That's a big change. And then it would come down again as he saw the patterns. Because it's a pattern recognition again. And it's a wonderful game. But I gave it out because you have to be passionate about it to keep playing. Right. It's very taxing.

2:05:25Yeah, very taxing. There's a similar result with Silasai bin and the game of pool, pocket billiards. Right. You have more feel and you know where the ball is going. And you can understand angles and patterns. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think sportsman, I mean like Joe, the father of a bunch, he loved cricket. And he said he was a better bowler. Have you heard of the pitcher who pitched a game on acid, a no hitter game on acid? Who was that again, Jamie? It's a very famous story of a guy who, he made a mistake and got just too high. And it didn't wear off and he went to the game. Here it is, Doc Ellis.

2:06:14He took acid and pitched a no hitter. So like, don't get his ball when he was on acid, which is so crazy. And that's exactly it. And you know that picture of the spider, which came out in the 60s. The spider's web. Yes. I'm trying to recreate that study. I'm seeing you find that spider, they gave the spider Ellis to you. And you know, the caffeine one was absolutely chaotic, it was so bad. Look at it. The cannabis ones started off rather well than your chaotic. Just like cannabis does happen. But look at the Ellis. And the LSD one was perfect. Better than perfect. Well, look at the normal one though.

2:06:56The normal one's pretty amazing too. Yeah. But funny enough, now I know the leading web person in the world is a, is a, Donald Oxford who I've been talking about six years now, to do this research. But you wouldn't believe it to give a spider LSD when has to get ethical approval. Oh, that's hilarious. I mean, you know, and for the eight, six, eight years we haven't yet got the ethical approval. There's nothing ethical being a spider. I know you can't believe it. They're whole existing. The existence is unethical. Yeah. They're trapping other insects. Exactly. Anyway, so far we haven't done it, but I really want to do it this year.

2:07:41Because I mean, maybe they were pulling our legs. Maybe. But it's a very interesting concept. Sure. That even at the spider level, it improves function. Yes. It would make sense that caffeine would be all over the place too. Yeah. This heart rate would be jacked up, they'd be, or whatever, their central nervous system. Yeah. Yeah. But it's very, there's so much we could do. And that's why I actually feel having lived with these substances as my passion, my passion for 50 or 60 years, and particularly LSB because I get the cleanest and I know it the best. I've got a very good instinct how to do it.

2:08:26I've designed several studies I haven't talked about because I don't, they shouldn't come out, but I can see how it can help like the old woman without silence. So I'd like to just show you not to go on and not to show you. Yes. Because the difference is so big when I showed it to the professor of geriatrics in Switzerland, within an hour he said he wanted to do collaboration with me to do an Alzheimer's study with it, because you can't fake someone's expression. So from deep apathy it goes to sparkling at a little early age. And there's nothing conventional that would replace that. There's no conventional medication.

2:09:07There's no medication. There's no medication. And actually I'm working with a very nice man who's a severe of the biggest care home in England, which is a national health one. And he'd heard about my research in a very interested, he said 70 % of his residents have Alzheimer's. And there's nothing you can do. And the suffering it causes them and their relations and their care is devastating and it's getting worse and worse as we live longer and longer. And it's stunning that there's something available. Yeah. And well after I'll show you, because it is miraculous. And so I've also got a very, very good concept for the perfect place because what I would like to do is with these conditions, like I'd like to do Alzheimer's, I also want to do autism, also Parkinson's.

2:10:05You know, I want to be able to fast forward these researches with the best doctors, available scientists. You know, I can design them. I know them. I know that I know how they go. And what I can see is it's very similar to a condition which we know historically, which is called terminal lucidity. And I've been studying that for the last year or two. It's a well known fact that people quite often just before death who are in coma or paralyzed or one of those conditions out of the picture for years, suddenly will come back and just before they die and make jokes about when they were in the nursery and people, you know, who know that they're that sharp.

2:10:58And I think what can happen with a microdose is that you light up the connectivity between these different brain centers. So suddenly the brain is functioning again. I mean, not probably functioning like this old lady, she came back. Her children said it was remarkable. It was getting our mother back. She had her wit, her love, her denture. She said, I feel so wonderful. Let's read some poetry. You know, from having been this vegetative state. Yeah. And I think we can now get that going. And what I want is the freedom to design, to make the car home, for the Beckley Harbor, where people can go and be treated with these compounds to see if it suits them and see if it has the same effect as it had with this old lady.

2:11:58And then we collect the data. And then I would have wonderful trained dolers who entertain them and make it a wonderful place to be. We'd have dogs and children. It would be like home. It's actually incredible. You know, it would be like being at home with lovely people who look after your emotional human and you're given a microdose, personally fitted to suit you. And what is the period experience that would be to the traditional nursing home? Yeah. And then we'd find out, does it suit? And then one could collect in a year and not a very big nursing home. And this wonderful man in England said, so long as it's legal, he'll give me the nursing home to try it.

2:12:40So I want the permissions to be able to do this. Yeah. And then one could get a lot of people coming through and then one would give them home care. So one would have someone visiting them at home as much as they need to maintain a safe and good program. Yeah. Anyway, we could do that. Yeah. This year. But it needs one, the regulatory passport to do it and two, the funding. And both of that, I mean, there's so much money around it. You know, and everyone's getting old, either the parents are there. And, you know, we should do these things speedily. Yeah. Not wait 10 years until, you know, takes two years even to get the paper we've done for this research.

2:13:30One year. I wanted to talk to you about near -death experiences. And there's a lot of speculation about what happens in the brain during near -death experiences. Because many people report things that are very similar to what is like a breakthrough psychedelic experience. Yeah. Well, what I think is near -death, the body kind of is in a state of extreme tone on. And it naturally, and dodgently, lets out these compounds, oxytocin, you know, all the different compounds in the body, which DMT may be, you know, they're probably more than we've even discovered, which give a shot of something serotonin, which is very similar to a psychedelic.

2:14:34And that's why people can suddenly come out of a vegetative state shortly before death. And that's what I'm saying. I think that what I'm doing with microdacy is creating that effect without having to wait for the person to die, poor person. Yes. Right? One can do it on a protocol. And that's what I'd like to research now. That would be amazing. You know, it's obvious. Yeah. And it happens. You can't fake it. You can't fake someone coming back to life again in the look in the eyes. So it's there. And just let's get the space so legally, I can set it up with the best people, you know. Yeah. I can set it up, and we could do it.

2:15:29And then if we get successful data, we can set open clinics, care homes, which services, and then hopefully the people can take the treatment home with them. One of the more bizarre things that comes out of psychedelic experiences, contact with entities, contact with what seems to be some other form of consciousness. What do you think is going on with that? That I love your entity flashing across the ceiling. Oh, that's a shooting star. I have to tell people about that, especially people that have had psychedelic experiences. I think they're having a flashback. Sorry, I didn't want you. But what do I think?

2:16:18Certain compounds create it more than others. DMT. Yes. Much more. LSD doesn't really produce entities strangely. I think it's a... Yeah. What's the other side of it? Yeah, but that's got DMT and... Right. Which LSD. That's why I love LSD. LSD I think is more like a flower opening up. It's more of yourself. Right. Whereas DMT, whether it's I wasca or psilocybin to a lesser degree, has this slightly... Like a dominating sound, slightly... I don't really like the colors as much. You don't? Not quite. They kind of move and browns. And I prefer LSD colors. You see moves and browns when you do DMT?

2:17:17Well, I'm not a DMT person. I mean, I've done it. Yeah. But I don't... Because I've seen very bright vivid colors. I've not seen moves and browns. Having seen the darker colors, I find it slightly dark. Really interesting. I was once in quite recently in the room of a session when people were doing it. There were only 10 people in the room. Three of them were in a battleground. And a poor boy had had much to much of him as screaming and yelling and getting burned. And the person who looked after him was a very practiced person in these things. He then said to me, well, actually I was a Damascus myself.

2:17:59And you know, I mean, you know, he was... While he looked after the person, me but he's very well contained with his Damascus. So he still managed to look after the young. But I actually thought, I don't really... So choose compounds which bring the tendency of those sort of experiences. But I know people have wonderful experiences. Yeah. And I've never had those negative experiences like that. No, my experiences have been very vivid and bright. Right. And enlightening. Right. Yeah. And the entities are very colorful. Right. Bright colors and wild, beautiful, loving experiences. Right. And I think that's very...

2:18:41I love... Well, that's very lucky because I knew people who had horrible ones too. But I mean, obviously they come and they get... Do you think that that's people struggling with the experience and trying to control it? I'm sure trying to control it is not a good detrimental. Yeah. And I think people are very lucky who've never had a really bad experience. I had a really bad experience with someone right back in the first year of my taking LSD. Someone who had actually turned leery onto LSD, who was a kind of freak, not a nice person at all.

2:19:32Anyway, he had a vinegar bottle of sand or phytomancy. I mean, not the LSD. And he offered me some of my things I didn't want him around. And then he poured it into my coffee. Oh, God. Without telling me. Oh, God. And the thousands of trips. Oh, God. And so I had a dying experience. It was a really bad experience. And you know, once you cut a thing in the soul or the body, you retain that fear. The pathway. Yeah, that pathway. So I think people who've had really bad experiences and have got pathways cut are more likely if they're given a psychedelic, a fearful of getting down that route. Right.

2:20:33Do you think that's a memory retention? Like, perhaps they remember the bad trip and then they start manifesting it? Yeah, yeah. And I think they definitely remember the question is whether they can remember it. And what you call it, I've got the word epigenics, which says, maybe you can go on for generations of memory of tall mom. I don't know if that's... Yeah. But I quite agree with you. I mean, if you're someone who's never had a really bad experience, you're much less likely to have it. And that's a great gift. And that's what we want everyone to be like. Most certainly. What do you think you're encountering, like especially on DMT, what do you think the entities are?

2:21:18Do you think that's a figment of the imagination? Do you think it's the consciousness expressing itself in different ways through the visual cortex? Yeah. What do you think is actually an entity? I know Charmin of Oscar Chair and he says he always considered, in the Darmic Church, they consider entities a deflection of attention. It's better not to go into the world of entities. Really? But a lot of people love the entities. Yeah. And I say, I didn't know. My someone has had an entity experience with Oscar. And the entity told him, why do you have so many, a set of collection of sneakers? I use sneakers.

2:22:14Yes, which he does. He's got a passion for sneakers. Oh, it's funny. So I don't know. I'm not an expert on entities. I was wondered if maybe that's your own consciousness recognizing that you're obsessing about a thing. Yeah. I think there's that element about it. I think there's, I'm hoping this research I'm doing on the mystical experience. I think a normalist experience is like telepathy. Telepathy, I know happens to my own satisfaction. I mean, no doubt. How so? Because with my pigeon lover, we were lovers for 15 years. Passionate lovers. In Tesla? Wasn't Tesla in love with the pigeon as well?

2:23:01Yeah, I think he was. Yeah. Why are pigeons? Well, it just so happened that his mother died on the window late. And it's joe and collect her body. We were trying to feed her. And there was a little day old fledgling without any feathers. Oh, so you raised her. And he shouldn't have lived because he didn't have that age. But I fed him warm milk and wheat a bit on a paintbrush. And he became, I mean, he was, he became just obsessive and he became the boss. And joe said to me, let's get rid of this pigeon, this creature. We're going to have him, I insist, let's put him out. Because we're going to have him forever.

2:23:49And he couldn't ruin our eyes. So I put him, I said, I'm not going to put him out. My beloved little papa. And I went and brought him in again. And sure enough, we had him forever. How long did he live? And he lived for 15 years. Wow. But he was then killed. I always knew he'd be killed. Somehow. And the interesting thing, I went to the story, it was too long. But I knew before he died. And I said, I'd love to him as he flew by. I said, buddy, I love you more than anything else in the world. That was the last thing I said to him. And then he died. And I knew he'd dead. I was painting a picture of a massive painting a picture.

2:24:34And suddenly I had this thing. But he's dead. And so I did what I had never done. I stopped painting and went down to look for him. Anyway, it turned out my father, who was also very kind of in on those sort of things, buddy, with a very fond of, had lost his temper with the old calm, and we had for 50 years, and told him to go and cut these effing nettles somewhere. And in the nettles was birdies still warm body. So I knew before it happened, and he knew within ten minutes of it happening. I mean, how many dead birds do you get? See, hardly ever. I mean, birds dying all the time. They're eaten.

2:25:29You never trace them. Right. And then once we took birdie camping, yes, before that. Anyways, it's not a story, but he flew off. And then I did a national, I got on English BBC news. I said he was a hero and tenio, and he's a new film. And because I put adverts in the time, looking for beloved grey, young and pigeon, I got thousands of people saying they had him, and we went all over England collecting these wretched pigeons, which were meant to be birdie. And then I went up to the television and did this petition for birdie on the news, because I said he was a starved and tenio in his new film.

2:26:24I asked him tenio in his, if I could do that, and he said yes. And so the BBC was jammed with telephones, seeing people finding the same body. And then I was really upset because they said they never introduce whatever people who ring in to people looking for fear of something. Anyway, so I was incredibly sad because of what the point of the whole thing, the whole point was to get birdie back. And then there was one telephone call, which came from the police station. And because birdie had landed on a washing line of a man who didn't have a telephone, so he didn't do his own telephone. He sent his son to the police station, saying he had birdie.

2:27:10And because it was the police's line, it got through to me, and that was birdie. Do you see what it meant? Multiple things of telepathy. And other things, I mean, I'm in New York, the telepathy exists. Are you all in order? I think it probably does in some way. I think it's an emergent property, a few unconsciousness that's not quite fully formed. I think it's there, but because of our egos and we don't sense it. I mean, because animals know when there's going to be a system of army, no animals die. And this is army, they all got them out. Well, humans don't have that sense. Do you know? Because we've got too much noise in the brain.

2:28:00So I think we've got the sense, but we don't use it. Right. You see, oh, don't know how to use it. So I think it's there. And I love those sort of things. I'd love to know. I think they work with the same sentence from the brain as a mystical experience. Say, by learning more about the mystical experience, one can hook on to learn more about anomalous experiences. You know, like I know a Buddhist monk who can shoot electricity. I mean, strange things, which are unexplicable at the moment. But it'd be very interesting to find out. So you think that these are probably abilities that we have, but they're stifled by ego.

2:28:54They're stifled by noise. They're stifled by anxiety. They're stifled by... Yeah, I think they're probably skills that you have to design. I mean, it is a funny thing that animals aren't ever killed by a system army. Right. They just have the instinct to go up, out of the way. What kind of things happens? That they have some... Some things sense. Yeah. I think things like telepathy happen with two things. Passion, love, love, passion, eye connection, and threat. I think they put the tendency, the sense of more likely to sense it if it's like that. I mean, that's why I had passion for birdie. And it was when he was in danger on several occasions I found him when his wings were trapped.

2:29:58You see what I mean. Right. You sensed it. Yeah. You had this connection with them. Yeah. And I've had it with humans too. But it's usually a threat to life, a kind of a drennal threat, which obviously sends a message. If you're there ready to receive it. One of the things about ayahuasca was when they were first recognizing it. They tried to call one of the compounds of it telepathy. Yes. Yeah. But then they realized that it had already been named. It was already harming. Right. We did the first research with harming, which is called Jordi Riva, who is a wonderful Spanish. Scientist on harming and on neurogenesis.

2:30:55We showed that it increased neurogenesis. Has that sore cyber, right? Yeah. It's interesting. We're going to find out so much. And he committed suicide sadly, which is a tragedy because he was a great scientist. But yeah, they're so much to understand. And I think we're at such an incredibly interesting sphere of investigation. Yes. Because he thinks that all of them are on the cusp of where we are and where we can go to in the future. Yeah. Well, I think that's why it's so wonderful that someone like you was out here with this passion for doing this research. And wonderful that you're spreading information about these things to people.

2:31:43Because it has to get out there that people are actually interested. And then force our politicians in a nice way. But you know, to change. It's really needs to be changed. It does. And because I do think, I mean, I think the use of cannibals, and psychedelics can enhance one's relationship with one's partner. One can help see the other viewpoint. Yes. It can get over difficult periods. Yes. I think it could do that with warning countries. Yes. I think, you know, empathy increases empathy. It increases the possibility we know from research we've done another people. And two, that the big, a big dollar is lowered, particularly with MDMA, the fear.

2:32:40So you can approach things which are fearful, like trauma, better. I mean, there's so many different pathways that these compounds can help enable humanity to get to their healthier, nobler, more creative expressions of themselves. I mean, the number of people I know, and I bet you know many more, who've said it changed their lives, their experience. It sounds mine. Yeah, and mine. And mine. I mean, I don't think, I know I couldn't have done what I've done without what I got from these compounds giving me that extra energy and understanding. And that's what I think should be there. I passionately think psychedelics are a gift of the gods in invertecones.

2:33:38It's a natural gift. It shouldn't be expensive. We must keep it so it's affordable to the poorest and the rest of the world. And that shouldn't be difficult. It costs nothing. I started, I've twice started a legal, a bettely labs to make top -level compounds, which I'd, but both times something happened. I never had the money to have a legal, so I never had a legal agreement. So actually the person always did the dirty on me when he just got going, said it never happened. But I wanted to happen because the purpose would keep it low price. I mean, people have to make money, getting a compound through phase three, because hundreds of millions.

2:34:36So as governments aren't paying, one very lucky to have people who invest money to do it. But then one wants to try to make sure that the investment doesn't stop other people being able to have benefit from it. But you don't have monopoly over it. How we work out, how you do the research, get it done, and the whole thing is maintained in an ethical sort of way. So it's not going to be a sport of the rich people only. It's going to be democratized. And that's the benefit of the rich people as well. And the rich people are the ones who hopefully are those who take the risk of, as the governments don't do it, of putting their money in to make the studies happen.

2:35:33But really, governments should be encouraging. I mean, to give the British government, they did fund a depression study, second time round, to give them their tooth. And I know that night is now Monday. But I mean, it's a pittance, one's needing a lot of money to allow, I mean, I do studies. I do them fantastically cheap. I think since I started the backlit 25 years ago, I think, really, my, 20 years, I think she said, I've had about, I, the backlit's had about five and a half million pounds in total. For 25 years, that's amazing. Yeah. And I've done a lot of the breakthroughs with her. But I'm now, there I am.

2:36:23And you know, I can't go on forever working 15 hours a day. And I would like to be able to do what I can do now, which is a lot, because I know the compulse so well. I know, well, there are strengths where to use them. And it's such fun doing, you know, it's like playing Go. Yeah. One last thing, yeah. And it's a much more interesting game, because then maybe one can help deal without service. Maybe one can help, there's all these conditions, which I think these compiles can help. Just elevate humanity in general. Yeah, exactly. And not only for treating people, but elevation. Yeah. And I think that's absolutely as important.

2:37:06And that's why it has to not have to be only be a medicine. It's a medicine, which is essential. But it's also an elixir to make the human animal, love, right, talking ape, a bit less of an idiot. Yes, yes. I think that's a great way to wrap this up. Thank you very much. I really, really appreciate you being here. And I really appreciate everything you've done. It means so much to just the whole world. Well, thank you very much for asking me. If someone wants to learn more about your research, where should they go? Well, to the Beckley Foundation, but we have a tiny organization. So we can never, I mean, I never look at the website.

2:37:52Do you see what I mean? Yes. What I would, they can help because I can do a lot of one for a search. I've got a very good tiny team, but I want to do more research and make things happen. So you want people to contribute? So there's a donate button. I want to do that. If you go to the Beckley Foundation .org in the upper right hand corner, there's a donation button. You can support psychedelic research. You can donate from anywhere in the world, UK tax deductible donations, US tax deductible donations, donate via bank transfer, cryptocurrency, Apple pay. Well, I've never seen it, but well done.

2:38:30It's really comprehensive. But it'd be lovely if it starts to work. Because it's particularly difficult now that business. Because people think why put money in the bottomless well, but one could put it in the well, which could sprout. Yes. But I think there's an advantage in philanthropy. Because when it's not guided by profit at all, and guided by the knowledge we can get. And then that can come profitable. Yes. Thank you very much. Thank you for being there. I really appreciate it. And thank you for asking me. My pleasure. Bye -bye.

2:39:19Thank you.