#2012 - Gad Saad

26:40It's the evil. Well, I'll be on the Hitler channel tomorrow when I go to Greg Gutfeldt. Yeah, it's like, I mean, I think they're trying to reform that in some sort of a way. Yeah. And I think Fox News is getting a lot of pushback from people on the right that are very concerned with some of the decisions they're making. They're kind of going down the same path that a lot of these other corporations have gone down. Do you have a sense of what happened with the, do you have any? I don't know. So I don't know what happened with Tucker Carlson. I don't know why he got fired. I know as much as the average person who reads Reddit.

27:19I know some conspiracies. I know. I know he was a, he was like, it's kind of wild fellow when you think about like what he was doing on a major television show, implicating the CIA in the assassination assassination of John F. Kennedy. Yeah. And he's saying it with like utmost certainty, right? So you think that the reason of firing him was that they thought that he'd adhered to some journalistic ethic or rigor or something like that? I don't know. That could be the case. I don't know. I would think that when you have a network that's run by advertising, you know, I mean, you know, it's what you do for income.

28:00You know, I would imagine there's a lot of pressure by those people, those advertisers, to eliminate threats to their, their business. Right. So if you got some wild dude on Fox News who's saying a bunch of shit about whatever it is, whether it's the why we in Ukraine, whether it's why you mandating vaccines, whether it's, whether it's having that kind of stuff on regular television. It's a big problem to anybody that's selling advertisement that's in those businesses. Apparently Budweiser didn't learn that lesson. Well, see the difference between Budweiser and pharmaceutical drug companies is that Budweiser is not prescribed.

28:46Right. It's not recommended by your doctor. Right. You don't get a script. You don't go to CVS to pick it up. It's different. And so this is like something that you can't really, you can't really criticize a brand and like say, yeah, we don't, we don't buy Pfizer around these parts anymore. Like it doesn't, that doesn't work. It's not going to work. You can do that with Budweiser though. And you can do that with the like, that's probably going to happen with some other stuff too. Like people are upset at the country music channel. Yeah. Because they have the Jason L .D. song. Try that in a small town.

29:22Yeah. The level of outrage. Look, now I'm not saying that that's the greatest song in the world's ever known, you know. But the level of outrage coming from people that are upset about that song is so strange when there are hundreds of rap songs out there that are infinitely worse and also enjoyable. Misogynistic, qualifying, violence, the whole thing. And no, no complaints at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're not even talking about old stuff. There's new stuff too. There's hip -hop, there's wild rock songs, there's a lot of wild shit. And to be focusing on that one. And it's the racial aspect of it, it was crazy.

30:08Because like the real antifa problems that were happening during the BLM, I think there was a lot of white people doing that. Wasn't it? Yeah. It was a lot of like lost liberal whites who are very angry, who decided to take up this movement and smash things. So like the racial aspect of it, there's nothing racial about the lyrics. Or how about the Tracy Alman controversy? No, I did not. So she wrote in the, I don't know if you remember, I think it was 1988, she had this iconic song, Fast Car. Yes. Oh, right, right. And then this, I guess he's a country musician. Tracy Chapman, that's the old man.

30:46Oh, that's she's an actress, right? She's a comedian. Yes. Tracy Chapman, thank you. And then this singer asked for her permission, I guess, to go and to do a cover and so on. So amazing. And then people came out that, you know, the white guy is assurping this thing. Yeah. Well, but that's always going to happen. This episode is brought to you by Life Lock. Tax season is already stressful. You shouldn't have to worry about identity theft on top of everything else. And trust me, it's a big worry. Especially since during tax season, your sensitive info does a lot of traveling to places you can't control.

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33:53You're always going to have a certain amount of people to say that. Yeah. It doesn't mean it's real. It's also, and apparently she's happy that he's doing it. Well, no kidding. Everybody's good. And it's a great song. I mean, it's really good to see. He didn't even change the gender like when he sang it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I can come and check out girl. He says check out girl. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what else is up? I think we were going to talk about what my impression of some of the prices in Austin. Oh, yeah, you were telling me that in the press it was $8. $8. So, yes, yes, yesterday I went out with, actually I was at the hotel, and two friends came by to one of whom I think has been on your show, Michael Malis.

34:35Yeah, I love that too. Yeah, he's lovely. And the other guy is a professor at UT Austin, which is really, Richard Lowry, who's really fighting. He's very much of an academic honey badger fighting against all the work stuff. And so we were just hanging out. One of the guys ordered a die coke and two of us ordered two espresso. The bill came, it was with the tip $28. And I'm thinking, this is like Oprah money. Who can afford these prices? You tell me what's going on in Austin. I have no idea. I didn't go to that place. But I mean, in general, the real estate, everything is completely double tripled.

35:16I mean, I understand that it's because it's a hot place. Yeah, but espresso shouldn't be a box, right? Which is espresso cost. Well, in Montreal, it'll be $4 or $5. What's $5. What's $5. Montreal would be maybe for an espresso, so it's a short, a special single espresso at $350. It's hard for people to believe. But when I was growing up, there was no Starbucks. Right. People did not like coffee, like they like coffee now. They are the greatest drug dealers in the world's ever known. They're slinging that sweet caffeine all over this country. And that's what it is. It's the best drug dealing operation in the world's ever known.

35:55Because it's a super mild, productive drug that everybody enjoys. Yes. It feels like a warm hug. I feel the requisite drug conversations coming up. Here we go on a 30 minute conversation of drugs. But this is like a good drug. Like caffeine is it. Like there's whatever bad effects you get from coffee, they're so minimal. There's even like links to like good health benefits from it. Yeah. I think there's worry. People used to worry about dehydration, but I don't think they worry about that as much anymore when it comes to drinking coffee. They used to think that if you drank a lot of coffee, you would get dehydrated.

36:28But there's a certain amount of hydration you're actually getting from drinking coffee too. So it's kind of complicated because it is kind of a diuretic, but it also like you're also drinking it. So that perfect segue into one of the chapters of the book. I talk about everything in moderation, which of course I've already already talked about. The golden mean, you know, if the soldier is too cowardly, it's not good. If he's too reckless, he's going to die. Right. And so like most things, the sweet spot in the middle. And so in that chapter, I go through a bewildering number of phenomena, all of which adhere to that inverted you.

37:03Too little, not good, too much is not good. And the ideal point is in the middle exercise intensity. Inverted you, alcohol consumption, inverted you, coffee consumption, inverted you, fish consumption, inverted you. And so I thought that was a really cool chapter to cover because it's arguably the most universal law that we can find. So many things adhere to that inverted you. And I think we had discussed this last time that I was on the show. The ancient Greeks were already aware of it. I mean, Aristotle and his Michael, a macchian ethics talks exactly. I mean, he doesn't call it the inverted you.

37:39He calls it the golden mean. And so to our earlier conversation, the last time I was here in going through the research for this book, the amount of insights I've found from Seneca, epictetus, Aristotle, Marcus Aurelius was just breathtaking, unbelievable. Yeah, I just got back from Greece. Was that right? Yeah, I was in Greece for two weeks. And I saw the Parthenon and we went to Lissus, went to Dallos, went to a bunch of different islands. It was really interesting, man. We checked out a bunch of ruins. And it's just so, it's so hard to even wrap your head around what was going on there 2 ,000 plus years ago.

38:24Yeah, indeed. I did five islands. So maybe we can compare notes. I did Kourfoo, Crete, Naxos, Santorini, and the fifth one I'm leaving to the end. I asked the captain, take us at the time I was traveling with a buddy of mine after school. This is like 1990. I said, take us to an island that's completely void of tourists. And so he dropped us off on an volcanic island called Folly Gondros. And we spent, I think maybe two days there, not a single tourist just hanging out with the locals. They didn't speak a word of French or English and it was just magical. Wow. Where did you go which islands did you go to?

39:00We went to a bunch of them. I can't remember all the names. Mika Nose. Oh right. But that is. That's tons of tourists, right? Yeah. There was a lot of people there. Yeah. We went to, oh my god. I'm not going to remember. A bunch of weird ones. Yeah. But it was really fun. Yeah. And it was relaxing. But the most mind -blowing thing was seeing the Parthenon. And seeing the elicis and walking around there. Yeah. We just came back from Portugal with the 16 days in Portugal first time ever. And I see it's elusive. So I'm saying elicis, it's elusive. Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, really enjoyed Portugal with the exception.

39:40Apologies to all of my Portuguese listeners and fans. Not a very attractive language. You don't like the language? I don't like that. But you're here coming out of Brazil. It sounds amazing. Brazilian Portuguese is nicer than Portuguese Portuguese. Oh, no. I'm stealing here some, I think it was a comedian who said this. But who said something that like Portuguese is akin to someone having a perpetual stroke in the way that, you know, fazal, wow. There's kind of a twisting of the mouth that appears unnatural. Wow. And I can see that because I found that it wasn't the most pleasant. So now I'm going to get hate mail from Portuguese people.

40:19Yeah, they're going to be very mad at you. Because Brazilian Portuguese is beautiful. It's got a flow. It's got a flow. It's got a flow. It's like a... I mean, it's Italian. You know, it's a universally loved language. French has spoken in France now. I'm going to upset the next world of people. Quebec, French, is in a front to human dignity. What? Yes, sir. I said it. What? Yes. It's horrifying. I can't believe what you're saying. Now, this is the next. My wife is able to switch her French depending on whom she's speaking with. So if she's speaking with someone who speaks international French, she'll speak in a regular manner.

40:57Not Parisian French, but like an international French. I speak an international French because we're from Lebanon. When she speaks to a Quebecer, she turns into a complete Quebecer. And oftentimes I say, how did you just do that? That sounds so inauthentic. She goes, well, no, because if I speak in the regular French, then it'll come across as hotty. But that, to me, is so strange because that would be like, I speak with an Oxford accent with one person. Right. And then I turn into the Southern draw with the other person, depending on who... That doesn't sound... There's a falsity to that. There's a good argument.

41:31There's a good argument. There's a falsity to that. Yeah. But there's also a good argument that like there's like a cultural agreed upon way of communicating. Yeah. Like if you started talking like there for all that, like you started talking like that today, people would go, what are you doing, man? Right. We don't talk like that anymore. Do you think I have an accent in English? You don't have an accent. You have a very distinct way of talking. Okay. So you couldn't say, oh, you're American or Canadian. Well, you have... There's that. Like your words are very clear, but there's like, there's something going on.

42:09Right. Yeah. It's clear there's something going on there. Right. But that's a fascinating thing about a person that's able to speak multiple languages. It's like you're speaking English, but you're speaking English perfectly with like a little bit of a twist to it. Right. Which is, I guess, an accent. So I guess the answer is yes. My, arguably my only regret as a parent so far, may it be the only one that I ever experienced, has been that we haven't passed on our linguistic heritage. We meaning my wife and I to our children. So I speak, you know, Arabic is my mother tongue, French English and Hebrew.

42:46My wife speaks Armenian. And so between the two of us, we've got five languages and yet our children only speak French and English. And the reason for that is because if I were to speak to them in Arabic or Hebrew, my mother, my wife would be locked out. And if she speaks to them in Armenian, I would be locked out. And so we ended up just agreeing on the two languages that we both speak. But now both, both our children are telling us that they regret because when they see me meeting someone who's Arabic and we break out the beautiful Arabic, as my son has been saying, you know, that he should only speak to me in Arabic.

43:22But now it feels as if it's a vocabulary lesson, right? So I'm telling him, here is how you say, he goes, no, but just speak to me. Right. Right. That's easy to do when you're, you know, one year old, when you're 11, 12, 13, it's, it feels false to start speaking to your in Arabic when you don't speak a word of Arabic, you know? Yeah, but that's a great way for him to learn. Yeah, indeed. Wouldn't it be? Yeah, of course. Because you'd have to keep up. You'd have to keep up. Yeah. That's what they say. Like, if you really want to learn a language, really want to learn it. Just move to a place. Oh, absolutely.

43:53I mean, one of the things that I regret the most is that I haven't been able to return ever to Lebanon because if I were to go to, on a visiting professorship to say American University of Beirut for a year, they're going to come back, fall as Arabic speakers. And especially, I mean, now my daughter is 14, he's 11. So they're sort of entering that period where they pretty much soon not going to be able to ever speak it like a native speaker. There's something magical that happens around puberty where if you learn a language after that period, you can never speak it without an accent. Really? Yeah.

44:27And it really is. And no one exactly knows what causes that mechanism. But so for example, I learned English at 11. And that's, that was the genesis for why I asked you though I have an accent because I would expect that the time at which I learned it, I snuck in just before that period. Had I learned it when I was 13, 14, 15, I could have spoken it, you know, perfectly, but you would have detected a much stronger accent. That's interesting. Yeah. That's a strange thing about human development and just the sounds that we all agree upon that equal the words. Well, there are tons of sounds in Arabic.

45:06Let's see if you can do them. You ready? First time ever on the Joe Rogan experience. Give me a try. Okay. So for example, my last name, everybody, all Americans will say sad. You just extend the A. But the proper way to say it, it's good side. Sad. Right. It's sad. Like if Arnold was going to say it. It's sort of like exactly. Or for example, hell. Can you say hell? Not the there's a hell. Hell and hell. They're coming from different parts from my throat. What? Those are all, so if I say, if I say the Arabic people are going to laugh at this. Intakhara. That means you're shit. Okay. It's a khara.

45:46Intakhara. Okay. Intahmar. That means you're an ass. Okay. You're an idiot. Say it again. The second one. Yeah. Intahmar. Intahmar. That's it. You're saying khah. It's he. Okay. Okay. First time ever, are we breaking new ground? Yeah, for sure. I've never even tried to say these words. Yeah. It's, you know, it's Arabic. Earlier, I said some derogatory things about Portuguese and about French Canadians. So let me be fair and say, not Arabic. Hebrew, which is also, you know, one of my heritage, is a violently ugly language. On the other hand, Arabic, I've spoken by the Lebanese. And I'm not saying this because I'm living, because you know, Arabic comes in many different dialects, right?

46:36There's Iraqi Arabic. There is North African Arabic. There's Egyptian Arabic. The Lebanese Arabic is really the Italian of Arabic dialects. Get ready for some comments and I'll come in your way. Isn't it weird how when they have horror movies, whenever someone's like calling a demon, they always have to do it in an old language? Meaning? It's always in Latin or something, right? They're always reading from some book. They're not supposed to be reading from, what does it say? Vomitist, fond, Vlamatacha. And they're like, and then the demons come. You have to say the magic old words that people don't understand.

47:14There's probably some weird, you're a psychologist. You understand that, you know? That's interesting. What's going on there? You're pretty round though. It's always like a dead language. Well, or an old language. I think it's because of that. So because it's an extinct language, it's somehow calling demons. It's calling demons that existed in another world. I think it's as simple as that. What a dumb concept that the way to call demons is like by saying a word, like making a noise with your mouth. It's the perfect frequency. Or say candy men in front of the mirror three times. Scariest movie of all times as we were talking earlier about our favorite movie, Halloween, first one, Jamie Lee Curtis.

47:53Is it really? Till today, I would probably have a heart. See what scares me about horror movies is not the supernatural stuff. It's the being startled. You see what I mean? Where he comes, and you, right? So oftentimes when I'm watching a horror movie, I will block my ears because it's that sudden sound that really scares me. I think if I had to pick an all time scariest movie, I think I would say the first alien. Love that movie. The first alien movie. That is a scary movie. It's very different than all the other alien movies because in all the other alien movies, the aliens are kind of out in the open and you shoot a bunch of them.

48:33They're coming from all over the place. It's way unrealistic, by the way. Wait, we can get into that. Have you seen the documentary of the making of alien? I have. It's amazing. It's amazing. Yeah. That HR, how do you say his name? Geiger? The artist that signed it. Oh my God. What a unique vision. Unreal. His art was so strange. That creature that he created was fucking amazing. It was literally like the ultimate terrifying alien predator. And a feminist empowerment because the alien is a female. Oh, the big one. The mother. The mother is a girl. But this movie is so fucking good. It's so good.

49:16And it's so scary. It's a great sci -fi movie, but it's also fucking scary. Like you're talking about being startled. Yeah, yeah. And that alien in this movie is elusive and intelligent and traps people. Yeah. And you get to see it in brief glances. And then in the new movies after that, like aliens, it's kind of a different thing going on because you can kill them easy. Yeah, yeah. And I just blasted a bunch of them. And then the mother's at you, but you got a robot body. So you're all good. So much ridiculousness that just hurts my feelings. Have you ever seen 1980 Brian De Palma's Dressed Kill, which is kind of a precursor to all the transgender stuff that we hear today?

50:01Have you seen that movie? No. Oh, it's fantastic. Michael Cain, Angie Dickinson. You're amazing, Jamie. It comes out. I mean, you're wizard. You have to see this movie, Joe. She supposedly transgender in this movie. No. So what happens is can I give away some stuff? Or it's a spoiler. It's a spoiler. 20 spoilers. You got it. Well, but somebody wants to see it. So she is sexually frustrated with her and her marriage. So she goes to see a psychiatrist played by Michael Cain, who as she's telling him her story, her sexual stories is becoming aroused. But he turns out to be a guy who wants to become a transsexual, him the psychiatrist.

50:45And so he doesn't like the idea of being aroused as a male because it is then, you know, attacking his desire to make the transition to being a female. And so dressed to kill, the movie is him dressing up as a, there you go. That's Michael Cain. Oh, my God. It's phenomenal. I saw it as a 15 year old. I think that was my first exposure to, you know, transsexual operations. Oh, my God. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, this is, this is an amazing movie. I highly, highly recommend it. 1980. 1980. 15 years old. Wow. This was the year, by the way, that year when my, not, this is a weird segue, but when my parents were freed and lebanon after having been kidnapped by Fata in 1980.

51:33Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I remember I was 15 years old. Another thing that happened to me when I was 15 years old, I broke my nose and soccer and then had to have it reset by the surgeon. And so far about a week I wore a face cast. Did you get a fix where you can breathe out of all to Australas? I think I can, yeah. But yeah, it was, uh, that is so important. If anybody out here is listening and you have a deviated septum, get that fixed. If you can, if you're, it's safe to do because it's like the, the, the benefits being it will breathe out of your nose. Oh, speaking of athletics, I remember many years ago I had come on the show where I was singing the glory of, yeah, Lionel Messi.

52:18And you were like, who? Right. Who's Lionel Messi? And then you mentioned some MMA fighter that I'd never heard of. And I remember your exact response. You, you looked at me and said, how dare you, sir. Let me flip it back to you. How dare you, so are you now? You are a Messi fan. Finally, you've come around to the, to the truth. Well, he's an amazing soccer player. I mean, oh, that goal was no denying. Okay. Well, let me, since I'm on the number one show in the world, didn't they offer him like some fucking insane amount of money and he just said no? So, how much they are? How much they are? A different guy just got offered a billion dollars for one year.

52:54Yeah, and Bob, and Bob, and Bob, and Bob. What? A billion for a year? Well, 330 of that is so that he can transfer to the team and then 771 is for his services to a soccer for a year. They're buying everybody the Saudis. And Lebron? Jesus. Lebron said if they offered him, each one can take off. They have so much money. But let me tell you something. Lebron will become Saudi Arabian king. He'll be, he'll be the king of basketball over there. That's right. What? That is so crazy. Yeah. Yeah. That December 18th, 2022, World Cup Final. You talk about the power, the emotional power of sports, right?

53:32My family and I were sitting and watching the World Cup Final and we had the extent to which we were emotionally vested and messy winning the World Cup can only be, can only demonstrate the beauty of sports, right? Because here's a guy that, we've never met him. We're not Argentinian, right? He doesn't know that we're alive. Right. And yet it's life and death for us that he should do. I mean, it was so harrowing. I don't know if you watched the game. That at one point my son, who's 11 years old, said, I can't watch this anymore. I'm going to have a heart attack. That's the power of sports that it can pull us in and it can make us truly try.

54:12And on my case, before you interject, it was kind of driven. My desire for him to win was driven by a really a purity strand. It was that it seemed cosmically unjust for the greatest soccer player of all time to not have won the World Cup. So when he won it, to me, it seemed like the world is right. Beauty has won. I get it. Look at that. That's awesome. And I should add, what a guy, right? Humble, sweet family man. What's fascinating to me is this happy as they are. The people on the other team that were rooting for their team, they're devastated right now. That's the weird thing about sports.

54:54You can get so attached to what's happening that a loss is like really a loss. Yeah. Can't believe we fucking lost the Kansas City. Well, in my first book ever, 2007, Evolutionary Basic Conception, I talk about studies, that's not my studies, I was citing other works, that looked at what happens to the testosterone levels of fans as a function of whether their team wins or loses. Of course, you test that. Well, it's been tested. You just take solid very assays of fans as their team is winning or losing. Oh, you can get testosterone levels from now? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. Now, it's not surprising, as you would know, as a fighter, that if you and I fight and you defeat me, your testosterone level goes up, my testosterone level goes down.

55:42It's like a video game. Like a video game. Except what's happening here is that there is a vicarious and dockronological response. The fans are having the same increases in their testosterone levels or decreases as a function of their team winning or not. That's quite extraordinary. And that shows you why we become so bonded to our favorite players and so on. We are really going through the battle with them. Yeah, it's really the case with fighters. When people have a fighter that they're really a giant fan of and that person gets beaten in a devastating manner, it's heartbreaking. There's even studies by the way that have looked at what happens to sexual behavior of fans after their team wins or loses.

56:28So if let's say you, if your wife is upset that you're not, you haven't been producing in the bedroom, she should pray that the husband's favorite team wins because if he wins, he has an increase in testosterone level, increases their libidinal drive. So we're animals. It's just attaching so much of your own emotions to something completely out of control. It's rooting on it. Exactly. Do you have a fan in any sport where you've ever been that vested in? Well, there was one time, I remember when I was a kid, I was a giant fan of Donald Curry. Donald Curry was the Walter Wade boxing champion at the time.

57:14And he had a rivalry with this other guy, Milton McCrory, and Donald Curry knocked him out. It became like my favorite boxer. And then Donald Curry, he got beat by this guy, Lloyd Hunt again. It was a devastating loss. Like people couldn't believe Lloyd Hunt again beat Donald Curry. And it was like Donald Curry might be on the downslide, but I was still like a giant fan of his. And then Donald Curry fought Mike McCallum and Mike McCallum hit him with a left hook to the body and a left hook to the chin and put him out like alcohol and I couldn't believe it. And I ran here it is right here. I ran out of the house.

57:52Watch this. Boom. So the the one with the black shorts is your guy, right? The guy down. It's my guy. Okay. So I miss remembered it. It wasn't a left hook to the body. It's like he goes with a right hand and then a left hook behind it. But he just he caled. Caled Donald Curry and I couldn't believe it. And so I put up my running shoes. I couldn't stay home. I could just couldn't deal with it. I couldn't deal with it. I went running in the snow and I ran. I ain't no, where there was another snow. I'm thinking about other stories. Another time when someone lost I went running in the snow. I don't think it was in the snow.

58:33There was a warm. I don't remember, but I remember I went running. And as I'm running and I'm running down the road, I'm picking myself. I am never going to be this invested in someone else winning or losing ever again. I was so devastated that he lost. What was the bond? What why why why technique? His technique was perfect. He was crisp. Like he was coiled. They called him his name something cobra. Here comes Jamie. I forget what his nickname was. But his his technique was so crisp. Lone star cobra. Lone star cobra. There you go. He was out of Fort Worth. And his technique was so sharp. I just really I always admired guys who were able to find like the shortest path to connecting with a shot.

59:25Yeah. It's just like the technique is so dialed in. Yeah. There's guys like like Javante Davis is like that. Their technique so dialed in that when you watch them on quark it's like, oh my god, the efficiency of it. And so I was just a giant fan of the guy. I just loved as a person who like really enjoyed technique. I watch them someone is exceptional. I recently put I don't maybe a few months ago I put out a sort of a hypothetical what if scenario where I I think this is on Twitter where I asked you know people who follow me. Would I be able to step on an NFL field? And under any circumstance simply get a single yard as a running back.

1:00:11Right. So in other words, right. Right. So now for example, if I go into a boxing ring with someone the only way I'm going to survive is if I keep running around long enough because the singular time that they hit me I'm unlikely to be able to withstand that. So that's I'm gone. If I play basketball, I think I have enough skills that I can receive the ball and pass it off to someone. And so then I started thinking what about other sports? Could the average person who doesn't play that sport survive long enough to do something? I'm obviously not going to get 100 yards, but a single yard. What are your thoughts?

1:00:48I thought maybe I was being presumptuous, maybe an old guy, but I thought that it could be possible for the front line to make enough of a hole for me to run through for one yard. I would just I just need to get a single yard. Yeah, it's possible. And but a lot of people thought there is no chance that that would happen because they would catch you in the backfield, they would tackle you and then you would die. Well they probably could do that too. That could happen as well. But if the defense is so strong that they can just create a small enough opening for you to go one yard, I think that's reasonable.

1:01:20Yeah, it would suck for you though, dude. They're going to pile on top of you. You're never going to be this way again. And especially since I've lost so much weight, at least before I looked like a linebacker, a fat linebacker. Yeah, that was you don't want that happening to you. What was that? Watch this happen there. Watch it. Watch it again. Watch this guy. This is the running back trying to get the ball to get one yard. Watch this. Bam. It's helmets off and he's hurt. Oh my god, he got a tag. That's one of five guys that are just going to try to stop you from doing. Tag old. This guy's just so powerful.

1:01:50So Jamie's in the camp of I'm not getting a single yard. There's a lot of other variables. But it is possible that the defense could have prevented that if the defense is extraordinary and the guys are on point and there's games, things happen, right? People are trying to control things and people are charging forward. It's possible that there's an opening just big enough for anyone to get three yards or one yard rather. Do you think you could step on a soccer field and look anything short of a complete moron? No, no possible. I actually saw you recently and I was really delighted to hear that where you were singing the praises of how fit soccer players are.

1:02:33Oh my god. We went to see the games here in Austin and when you watch professionals, first of all, here's one reason why soccer is problematic for television. They don't get breaks. So there's no breaks. We'll be right back with another word from Nabisco. There's none of that. So if you have commercials, you have to interrupt the play of the game and then people have to catch up and then is it not live now or you're going to have half of a commercial and half of the game? Like what are you going to do? How are you going to do that? Because they don't stop. They just keep going and you have to be insanely fit.

1:03:06Those guys look like thoroughbreds. Like their legs were just fucking shredded. So there was a study a few years ago. I can't cite what it was that looked at who were the fittest athletes. Number one was soccer. That has to be. Do you know what number two was? No. Squash players. Why? I'm guessing because there are a lot of those very, very quick accelerations that you have to engage in to be able to get the ball is very dead, right? And so you really have to have this incredible quickness to be able to. So a weird thing for an elite athlete to choose. Jamie, can we check the rallyings? I could describe Squash.

1:03:46You know, I tried to play it. I got very claustrophobic. Really? I'm being serious because. Let me see what it looks like. Show me a Squash game. It's like in the racquetball, right? No, but with a ball that's more dead, racquetball, the ball has a lot more give. It bounces more. I was just trying to look. I found other sports that sound like they would be more, but I didn't find it on a scientific study. My wife has been trying to get me into pickleball. What are our thoughts about that? I hear people like it. Have I just lost the thoughts from points? Come on, man. People like pickleball. Well, apparently there's a whole craze of pickleball now because it's not quite as difficult as tennis.

1:04:29You don't have to cover as much ground. It's still a racquet game. There looks a lot of damage to the knee, son. That's what I'm looking at right there. In terms of Squash, we're talking. You're running around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of fucking explosive movements for old guys like us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Best stick to yoga. You pickleball, you can play it with a beer in your hands. Here's your beer. Yeah, pickleball. Piggleball's the way to go, son. By the way. And I'm not going to call it ping pong. Table tennis. Oh my God, insane. I watch a lot of it. When I was a graduate student, there was a fellow student who were roughly the same level so we could have these long rallies.

1:05:06We played for two, three hours. We'd be drenched. Oh, it's very, very, very athletic. It's also amazing to watch. Like there reads, like knowing where the ball's coming and to be able to get to the side of the table and then back it over there and then step sideways and do their hitting them behind their backs. It's like it's beautiful. It's wild. It's wild. It's beautiful. Those exchanges are so fast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a crit and you're just this little ball, just tracking this little ball. Wacking it with your thing. Now I just, now that you said that you went to the soccer match here, that's because Austin has a team, right?

1:05:37Oh, yeah, they have a, it's the only real professional team that has a lot of fun. So are you willing on your show to commit to inviting Dr. Gatsad to a game when Inter Miami comes over because Gats should see. Well, yeah, I'm not. We're going to miss him in person. I would be happy to do that if I am going to be here while that is happening. So I have a lot of commitments. You know, I don't necessarily know that I don't know when that is, you know, but would you want to go? But if yes, yes, yes, yes, if I was free, I 100 % want to go with you. I really enjoyed it. I say, yeah, I really enjoyed.

1:06:11That's amazing. You just made my day. You made me happy. It's my last week of the day. It's the coolest. It's such a good guy. He's one of the owners too. So he's the Austin. Yeah. Oh, is that right? Yeah, I don't know. I'm not miss saying that, right? I don't think so, but yeah, they just actually played here before I before message you in the team. I don't want to like, mistake his position. He's something. I think he's one of the owners. I don't pay. Unfortunately, don't pay attention to that, but I do pay attention to him. He's a super cool guy. And he, you know, was with us, explaining it to us.

1:06:41Like he had he loves it. He fucking loves it. You know, else is surprisingly into soccer. Do you know the Canadian actor Ryan Reynolds? Oh, no shit. Have you heard? He is the part owner of Rex him. He's co -owner. OK. Can you do it? I knew he was. I just wanted to be sure. Let's do Ryan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, Rex him. Mm. WREXM. Yeah, Ryan Reynolds. Yeah, he purchased a team, right? What a wild baller move. I'm a purchasing sports team. I think I got good. I think I got good. I think I got good. I've been purchased him. Speaking of the magic touch, speaking of Blake Lively, I actually have her in the current book that came out today as a manifestation of a truly beautiful woman.

1:07:24Do we agree on that? Oh, she's gorgeous. She's phenomenal. Yeah, truly beautiful. And exudes. That's like a duh. Yeah. Well, it's definitely like that type. There's like a level of beauty. And then everything else is just different versions of that. Yeah, that's what I think. Yeah, yeah. I think we both do pecking, first of all. And I also think that it's like a level of beauty. That's like you hit a level of like beauty. And it's like everything else is just different. So for on a man who would be a guy that you would think is kind of the epitome of gorgeous. Jason Momoa. Jason Momoa. Is that right?

1:08:00He's perfect. He's beautifully tall. He's from an island. He's like tan skin. He's always smiling. He's like, man's man. This is not the scientific study, but I was just trying to find where soccer lists on this rank. This is the most overall fitness rating, but this is based off of physical demands. It has one. Number one is water pole 25, 26. Oh, come on. Hmm. You know, you never wrestled. Did you? That's the other thing I had wrestling. Boxing. Okay, first of all, er, let me hit the brakes. Marshall arts being number five and then boxing being number six. That is way too general. You can't say martial arts, because martial arts is jujitsu and it's also like fucking karate at the mall.

1:08:44And then if you go down, go down. I can't speak to rugby league, but you know, I talked to you guys like Volkonomski used to play. It's fucking hard core shit. That's all believable. But why is wrestling? Keep going down. Keep going down. Why is wrestling way down below basketball? Oh, they're squash. They're tied at. Really, but whatever it is, shut the fuck up. This is a bullshit study. Shut the fuck up. Let me tell you something. What number one is wrestling? Number one. Is that right? 100%. You mean, number one. Rico Roman wrestling, you mean? Whether it's Greco Roman or whether it's freestyle or whatever it is, folk style, whatever wrestling.

1:09:21That is the most physically demanding sport for sure. It's so hard to do. It's so hard. And to be at a little elite level, like like a like a Daniel Kormier level. Like I'm going to pretend I know who that is. He's a two division UFC world champion. Oh, okay. He was also Olympic wrestler. Nice. There's levels that these guys are at. That is, they're fucking fitnesses off the charts. Their athleticism is off the charts. Well, you know that my, I think we probably discussed this before. This is not wrestling, but my brother was an Olympic judoka. Oh, well, that's another one, man. judo is hard core.

1:10:00I've, I've trained a bunch with judo guys. They're ridiculously strong because they're throwing bodies around all the time. And that throwing bodies around when they grab a hold of you, it's a totally different feeling. So I'm sure I've said this story. That's the number one. What's that? Wrestling number one boxing too. Yeah, that's, that's how it should be. Soccer. That's what is this website? This website's a good website. Athletic ability. I don't know. Yeah, that's the way it is. It's been agreed with my thinking. It's a good website. If it doesn't, it's a bullshick website. Okay. Where's soccer there, Jimmy?

1:10:31This was number nine on this list. Yeah, wrestling MMA. That's, that's accurate. That's accurate because if you look at guys like, uh, uh, uh, uh, Correllen, Alexander Correllen, who's the scariest fucking wrestler of all time, like if anybody says like, who's the scariest wrestler of all time? It's Correllen. He, they used to call him the experiment. Because his, his parents were like normal size, like kind of tiny, like five, seven. And he's a fucking panther, like a human panther. Six foot two, 300 pounds. And you know what his move is? He throws people around. He picks them up and beats them with the earth.

1:11:08He's the most terrifying wrestler ever. Because he would just hoist them up in the air and look at that picture. See that picture? I have that picture framed in on metal printed on metal in the gym just to remind me of what a pussy I am. You should always know that dudes like that have existed and probably still exist today. Okay, so that's fucking terrifying. Let's play the football game of, can I get a yard? You go in with this zero chance. No, not winning. How long can you last? I'd have to run away. It would just be as long until he catches me. Okay. I would have to run away and I probably wouldn't be able to run away.

1:11:43He's faster than me. He's big and fast. The thing about Correllen was, he was 300 pounds. He moved like a cat. He had crazy flexibility, like ridiculous flexibility and mobility. He did all these mobility drills. And if you watch his workouts, they were extraordinary. Cause he's doing a lot of things like shield casts with giant steel plates. So he's doing a lot of this shit. So it's like rotational muscles. He's a ability to manipulate things in awkward positions was off the charts. It was all like heavy kettlebell work. That guy was a freak. And his mobility, he would show all these mobility drills and different things.

1:12:22Look at what he's doing. Oh my goodness. Look at this. I mean, this is the fucking Olympic gold medalist wrestler. What year is this? 80s? I think his last wrestling matches were around, I want to say before 2000, because he did have offers. He had like one Fagazzy MMA fight. It was like a fake MMA fight. Cause they did a few of those in Japan. They had a weird sort of symbiosis with pro wrestling and MMA. And so there was MMA fights in Japan that are allegedly fixed. And they look fixed. You're watching me going, get the fuck out of here. It's like you see like a fake tap. You see like someone giving their arm up or something.

1:13:06There was some of that going on. And so it seems like he got involved in one of those where they gave him a shit ton of money and they said, come over here. It's kind of pro wrestling, but kind of not. We'll say it's an MMA fight. It's one of those deals. But if he did fight MMA, everyone would be fucked. Everyone. Everyone would be fucked. And if you figured out how to strike, oh my Jesus. You know, I'm not sure if I've talked about this before, but the precursor of MMA, I had had that conversation with my brother, the judo guy, because we would go out to nightclubs and he's very, very small guy.

1:13:42Probably five foot three, but built like a pit bull. And he'd kind of interact with the world as though he's six foot eight, the bouncers and so on. And I once asked him, do you think you can take these guys? And he said, if I can get them, that if they knock me out before I get to them, then they knock me out. But if I get them and I can bring them down, then they're dead. And I think from my very, very limited knowledge of MMA, to guys who usually win, are precisely those guys who can do exactly what he said, right? Yeah, sort of, but kind of everybody knows how to defend that now. It's just how well can you defend and how good of a striker is that wrestler?

1:14:23Because this is gentleman who's coming up on the scene right now, his name's Bo Neckle. And he's an elite like blue chip wrestler, like a elite wrestler, like Olympic caliber wrestler. And now he's competing in MMA. And his last fight was a first round knockout with his hands. And he showed, he's got sick boxing skills too, which is the most terrifying thing. When you got a guy who's above and beyond you in grappling, like once he gets a hold of you, your fuck's bill. There's no way you have one way taking a fuck's bill. He's gonna slam you to the ground, he's gonna control you, he's gonna beat your ass.

1:14:58They're just too good at wrestling. And then also he can fuck you upstanding. That's where it gets really dangerous. So if a guy like Karellen learned how to stand up, that would have been the end. Cause there's certain freaks that like you just like athletic freaks, you're just like, what are you gonna do with that? What are you gonna do with that? So in the MMA, in the history of the MMA, is there someone that is akin to Messi in terms of like a Michael Jordan or a Messi in the MMA? There's a few, there's a few that are in that conversation. I think the number one consensus greatest of all times, John Jones.

1:15:29Cause John Jones just went up and easily won the heavyweight title with the first round submission easily. Just took the guy down, strangled him quick. And the way he did it was like so extraordinary, it's controlled distance, his management of the space, like the way he set it up, it's really tough to argue that he's not at the greatest of all time. Undefeated as a light heavyweight, had one defeat that was a disqualification, that's 100 % bullshit. He was on top of this guy smashing him, beating the fuck out of him, but they said that he did 12 to six elbows, which are the dumbest fucking ever rule in MMA.

1:16:03Cause what if it's 12 .05? What if it's 12 .05? Sorry, what does that mean? I don't know. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, from the position of the clock. And elbow straight down is illegal. Oh, I see. Doesn't make any sense. Yeah, you have to do it sideways. What, what, how do you do it? You do it at an angle. But it's literally because the athletic commissions that were sanctioning MMA initially, they said, you know, we've seen those things on ESPN, where people break bricks with their elbows. You can't do that. It's too dangerous. So you can't do that on the ground. You can even do it standing up, I don't believe.

1:16:33I think if someone comes straight at you and Tomahawk elbows you, I believe that's illegal. I'm not sure about that. But on the ground, it's most certainly illegal. And it's the dumbest rule. It doesn't make any sense. A regular elbow is just as hard. An elbow like this is just as hard. It might be more hard because you can kind of get more of your shoulder into it where this might be a more awkward move that, I mean, I'm not the best at this, but I would think that this is not as good as this. This seems like I'm getting a lot of weight into that. I'm getting the torque off my hips. This I'm kind of coming up and down.

1:17:06I feel like I have more ability to generate force going sideways, going into it like that. So I don't, I think if you measured it, I bet it would be, I bet this elbow is stronger for like the elite fighters. So it's not a matter of like whether or not it makes sense. It's a dumb rule. And that's the only time you ever lost. You got the squalphites. The only time you ever lost. Other than that, like he's like at certain point in times he's like playing with his food. Like he let fights go on too long where he's like almost disinterested. And he wanted to try standing up with guys who were supposedly great strikers.

1:17:40He decided not to try to take people down. Just try to do whatever the fuck he wanted to do. Because he's so much better than everybody was getting bored. And then when he has like big challenges like this second day on the Korma fight, he stopped Korma with a head kick. Like he's so fucking good. I mean, he's beating so many people and the way he beat him. He fought Leo de Machita and it's one of the most cold blooded finishes in the history of the sport. He has Machita and he grabs him at the cage presses him against the cage and gets him in this perfect power guillotine. Put some to sleep and then drops him and walks away.

1:18:20Watch this, watch this. So he grabs a hold of him. They get this exchange and John catches this. He gets him in this knee to the body and then he catches his in this standing crank. So see how he's doing that? He's compressing but he is head to his chest completely putting him out. Like there's nowhere to go. He's 100 % out cold. And so look at that. It just drops him. Oh my goodness. And walks away. Cold blooded. Cold blooded. That's the goat. That's the greatest of all time. And when he's challenged, that's when, like I said, the second day in Korma, there was so much bad blood between them.

1:18:55When he's challenged, really challenged, that's when you see how good he really is. The problem is he's so much better than almost everybody that ever has done the sport. That he at certain times just got too distracted, partying a lot, fucking off a lot. But... Did you think there are any personality traits that predict people who are likely to be interested in MMA fighting versus other sports? There's so many personalities. It's really interesting. The diversity in personalities in MMA is really fascinating to me as a person who's an analyst. Like there are people that are very calm and disciplined and religious.

1:19:33Like people like the greatest. Like Kabeab Numer -Gamerov, who's also in the conversation of who's the greatest of all time. He's also in that conversation. He's Ajay Bajan, or what is he? Dagestown. Dagestown, okay. He's in the conversation of the greatest of all time because it's not even a matter of whether he lost, because he never lost, who's 29 and 0. It's a matter of, did he ever lose a round? And he lost maybe one round in the Korma Gregor fight, because in the Korma Gregor fight, he was in one round. It looked like he was kind of taking a round off to really put the heat on him. He was slowing Conor down, and then he just, he was just taking him down, beating the shit out of him.

1:20:08Beatin' the shit out of him, yelling at him. Let's talk now. Let's talk, because he was so much like trash talk. During, you know, it was a very emotionally charged fight. And I think he might have lost one round in that fight where Conor got the best of him standing. Because Conor's still an elite motherfucker. But other than that, his whole career is just domination. There's one fight that he had with Glacin T -Bow. That was a controversial fight, it was a close fight. But that's very early in his career. When you look at him against guys, like world -class competition, you know, guys like Edson Barbosa, guys like Michael Johnson, like the domination that he showed on these guys was just fucking off the charts.

1:20:46He just take him down, mount them, tie their legs up with his legs, and beat the fuck out of him. And he did it to everybody. He did it to everybody. What's your preference in terms of, do you like the showy, trash talkers, or do you? I have no preference. I love them all. I love it all. I love the guys talk a lot of shit, and I love the guys that are like, could be there stoic and just get the job done. See, because in soccer, of course, you've had this perennial discussion about, you know, messy versus Ronaldo. I don't really think there is a debate. Messy's much better. But I also, I admire his humility, right?

1:21:22Because if there ever was someone who should have a chip on his shoulder, it should be messy, probably the most famous person in the world who's done it all. And yet he really walks around as though he's nobody. On the other hand, Ronaldo is a big showboat. If you ask Ronaldo, who's the greatest player ever, he'll say, it's me. Whereas if you ask Messy, he'll list 10 people and he won't put himself on that list. And so there is a way by which he engages in his personal conduct that I think is really admirable, that he truly is a role model. Right. Yeah, that's beautiful. So I'm wondering. So from the perspective of, because there's a lot of showboating in fit fighters, right?

1:21:59I'm the greatest ever. And you know, I'm going to knock you out. I would have thought that you'd probably be more into the understated guys. No, no, I'm all into whatever the fuck you're into. Like I like the Conor McGregor, whereas Diamond Inc. Rusted watches and drives around a Lamborghini yacht. I fucking love it. I know that dude grew up poor. That dude was struggling early in his MMA career and wasn't even sure if he was going to continue fighting. Right. You know, I became a fan of his watching him fight in the UK. I watched him fight on YouTube. And I reached out to him like 2013, I sent him a message.

1:22:37So I know hope one day you come over to the UFC, I'd love to, love to see your fights. Might have been earlier than 2013. But I was like, I think he's, I knew he was legit, like back then, there's something special. He's been on this show many times. No, he hasn't been on the show ever. No kidding. I definitely have mom though. I love the guy. I love that of these wild. I love it. I like wild guys. I like John Jones and he was wild. I think he did some questionable shit. That's no doubt some things that he shouldn't have done. Do you are, are many of your close friends fighters? I have a lot of friends that are in all walks of life.

1:23:12But most of my friends, most of my close friends do risky shit. Either they, they do martial arts, whether they do stand -up comedy, or they do something. How about intellectual risk? Yeah, well you do those things for sure. Well, here was a 2013. Yeah, so I tweeted to him. Yeah, he was amazing. But I knew that back then. But I like that he's a wild fella. I like that he's fucking wearing ridiculous, expensive suits and fucking giant watches and crocodile skin shoes. Fuck yeah. Fuck yeah. I like it. I like when people go hard. That's good, good, enjoy it, enjoy it. Enjoy the shit out of it. I like when Floyd made with it, enjoy it.

1:23:53You earned it, you deserve it, enjoy it. Enjoy it. Did you see that there's a, I think it's an HBO documentary coming out of the Mexican boxer, I can't remember his name. Which one? I guess they're all right. Yeah, exactly. Have you heard that there is a, no, I have not heard that. I think it's coming in August. And I seem to be, I mean, from the little trailer that I saw, I think there is quite a bit of personal demons that he's had to face in his life. And so it seems like a gripping story. Apparently it likes the party. Oh, is that right? Yeah. I don't know the ladies or with the, I suppose meeting with, I don't know.

1:24:29These are just rumors. You know, some controlled substances. He's had some issues. Yes, it's a public issues. Oh, there you go. Yeah, it's some issues with, yeah, rehab, drinking, drugs, and women, hollow. This might be the most interventions by Jamie on any show that I've been on. No, he always does it. Yeah. Jamie knows how to fucking load him up. He's the all -time greatest truth checker. Well, he's the goat of podcast producers, for sure. He's the man. He's the man. He's the man. He's the man. He's the man. Oh, 100%. But there's no Ronaldo out there. So he's the man. What am I the messie of?

1:25:02Or what is messy, the guy that always beat about you? Why would he keep trying to run you? Come on, man. I've said two words in this podcast. That's not true at all. I've literally, if someone does a content analysis of art conversation so far, they wouldn't know that I'm here. I've just sat and smile at your beautiful face. Oh, sweetie. That can't be true. I can just look at the words I'm seeing on my recording. It's like 50 -50 in a little while. No, it is not 50 -50. Oh, dear, you, sir. You got a little testy there. I got you. Not at all. I'll just have a fun. So what else is up? What's going on in the, what's going on in the game?

1:25:39I don't know, man. I'm more worried. What's upsetting you, what's the making you happy? What's a more worried than ever about the cultural narratives? A more worried than ever about the fucking divide in this country. It seems so accelerated, whether it's climate change or Ukraine or whatever the subject of juror is. It's everyone so stereotypically on one side or the other. Have you lost any personal friendships because of ideological issues? No, not real friendships. OK. Maybe acquaintances. But that was OK. Those are good. If you can clean those up. OK, exactly. Yeah, you find out who you really, who's really your friend.

1:26:28Even people that I'd like vehemently disagreed with about certain policies that were in place during the pandemic, there's still my friends. We can have disagreements. I know who the core of you is. And people think about things differently. We're free to think about things differently. Some people are free to have a perspective that I don't agree with. And you might be able to back it up with some facts. You might be able to. Or you might be intolerant to the other opposition views because some of them are full shit. Maybe that's true, too. There's a lot going on. But it's very hard for people to, especially in times of crisis.

1:27:10Like during the pandemic, you kind of found out how human beings are very malleable and very quick to pick a narrative they support. And especially if that narrative offers a promise of going back to normal. And that was what was weird about that. It was like, this is a psychological test study. If you wanted to do a test study of how a population, even a free, supposedly free population, free thinking, freedom of expression, freedom of speech is literally in the doctrine that we run the law by. And to have people willing to throw that away quickly under something that wasn't even, we're not talking about a nuclear war.

1:27:55We're talking about something that's like relatively in terms of the amount of people that die every year. It's not good. It certainly wasn't a good thing to have anybody. 99 .7 % survival rate. And yeah. I mean, again, it's not a good thing. Right. It's not good to get any kind of cold, any kind of disease, any kind of, like illness. It's not good. But there's a lot of shit that's killing people also. And there's almost no effort to stop that. Like there's no effort to stop the comorbidities that caused a lot of the problems that a lot of those people that didn't survive had. There's no effort to stop that in terms of like what we understand about health and wellness and promoting that.

1:28:38You're referring to obesity, you're not just obesity, but like malnutrition, vitamin deficiencies. Like so many people are eating, but they're malnourished. Sure. It's a giant portion of our population. There's not getting the proper nutrients every day. And there's a host of diseases that come along with that. Yeah. And it's just not being discussed. I mean, it's not like the epidemic that it really is. Some being discussed like the epidemic that it really is. Do you think that a lot of the governmental policies that were instituted stem from the fog of war during the pandemic, and so it was driven by ignorance?

1:29:12Or do you, are you of the view that there is kind of a doctor evil, you know, nefarious thing behind this whole thing? It is. It is. It is. It is very reluctant to go with the doctor evil narrative. I think, I think there's certainly people that you would consider evil that will take advantage when things happen. But if do I think that like they release the pandemic on purpose? No. No, there's like pretty clear evidence that people working in the lab got sick and that those people spread it. No, but let's say the ad hoc policies that they would come up with. You could only be four people on a boat.

1:29:46You can do this. You can't do that. My feeling is, I don't have any proof of it. It's just speculating is that a lot of it really came from the fog of war. People were, and I'm not trying to be charitable, but I think that most people were well -meaning. They didn't know what the hell they're talking about. They didn't exhibit any epistemic humility, right? They made it seem as though they knew what they're talking about. But they were trying their best. I don't think there was kind of this grand conspiracy where this is our chance to take over the freedoms that people still adhere to. I would be more inclined to believe what you're saying.

1:30:19Yeah, exactly. I think it's many factors. And I think when we want to look at what why people did what they did, we try to look at it one way or another. But I think there's many, many things going on. And also for sure, governments that are really good at crafting laws that allow them to gain power. And they've done that with the bills they passed after 9 -11, the Patriot Act, Patriot Act II, the NDAA, all that crazy shit. They, whenever something happens, they find new ways to control. And they do it because it's an opportunity. It's an opportunity to pass laws that people we were reluctant to pass before.

1:31:05It happens. Happens all the time. It's normal. That's their job. That's what they do. What they do is they're in control, they're in power. Like that's the game that they're playing. The game that you're playing is, I want to keep my freedom. Right. Like we have to figure out a way to like establish like real clear rules to how this game works. Because if you could just cheat and lie and then delete things off social media and have a bunch of bots saying a bunch of shit to stir people up and you're literally funding this. Like who's doing that? Is how many of that, how many of them are coming from America itself and how many of them are coming from foreign agents who are trying to disrupt American politics and trying to disrupt American narratives?

1:31:46I wonder, I wonder like what is the ratio of shit posting like people that are like what would you call it? Bot posting. What was what's the level of disingenuous, non -human, non -real person posting? As relating to COVID or anything. But anything, I think it's all the social things that are coming up right now. Anything, you see a lot of these wacky fake accounts. I go wonder how many of them are. There was an FBI analyst that said that he believed there's somewhere around 50, what do you say 80 %? He said 80 % of Twitter's users are bots. It could be as high as 80%. Wow. That's crazy. That's crazy.

1:32:28What? You imagine Twitter just becomes bots arguing with bots. And they finally realize like no one's on it. But have you felt that your experience with Twitter has radically changed as a function of the pre and post Elon Musk coming in or hasn't changed much? You feel more free. Like you can post things that are controversial and not worry about having your account limited. Because if you were posting things about, like first of all, there's things you couldn't post. Like you would not post a story about the Hunter Biden laptop. You couldn't even send it to me in a DM. There were certain things I tried to send people in DMs and they wouldn't allow me to send them.

1:33:09That's amazing. Like this is weird. This is weird. It's just confusing. It's like why would you think this is a good idea? Well, I remember I had been contacted by, I don't know if you've had them on the show. Do you know who Matt Ridley is? Matt Ridley. What do I know that? He's an evolutionary biologist. He was in the House of Lords in Britain. He's been on my show a few times. He wrote a book a few years ago with a co -author. I can't remember her name, where they were arguing for the Lab League theory. And when his people had reached out to me to come on the show, I very frankly said, look, I'm someone who very much speaks my mind.

1:33:44I don't care. But let's be pragmatic about this. If you come on my show and we spend an hour and a half chatting, it's going to be taken down. This was at the time when YouTube did not allow that. And I've always kind of struggled with that decision because I was being pragmatic and saying, look, we're just going to waste our time. First of all, it's not going to appear. They're going to take it down. They're probably going to put a strike on my channel if not remove my channel. And there is a real problem with that. And so we ended up never doing the show. But just the fact that they can get to me, someone who really defines his identity as being irreverent and I just do whatever I want, yet they still found a way to get me to modulate my behavior to think about it.

1:34:25Therefore, they won against me. Yeah, it's self -sensorship that people do at a survival. Yeah, and it always sat badly with me because I always thought, no matter what, I'm always going to speak my mind. But here was a case where I actually felt pray to that. What's crazy is also the goal shift, the goal post shift. So I think you could talk about a lably theory now because it's kind of a established science. And there's more evidence that points to the fact that it leaked from a lab. And there's almost no evidence of natural spillover. There's also evidence of manipulation of the virus itself to make it more contagious to human beings.

1:35:04It's some real whacking -ass man. Yeah. It's really, it's crazy how, but it took so long for people to think that that could even be a possibility. Like, remember when John Stewart was on the Colbert show and Colbert kept trying to block him from joking around about it? No, I don't. You never saw that? No, I didn't see that. Oh my God, you never see, you have to see this. It's kind of amazing. Because John Stewart blesses heart. He sticks to the bit. Yeah. And Colbert likes trying to cock block the joke. He's trying to stop him from ranting. So you can clearly see John Stewart is in the middle of a bit.

1:35:37He's like literally doing it to the audience. Like he's doing a bit like watch this. It's pretty fun.

1:35:49I guess this is it. This is a delight to have you here, my friend. Oh my God, there's nothing I wanted to do more than breathe everyone's air. Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing. This is what I know about you. This is what I know about you. We are truly dear friends, and yet this is the first time I've seen you in the Flash in 15. That is correct. Right. And I am so really happy and I know we're all vaccinated. And I'm not going to get COVID, but I'm going to get something. Honestly, these people did not take good care of themselves during the pandemic. Last time, actually the first time we talked during COVID, I was still in South Carolina.

1:36:36That's right. You were locked down. I was locked down down there. And the family, Evie and the kids were the actual crew. That's right. That's how we were doing it. We're doing it in a little unused, little bedroom with cables to the window and a satellite truck on our lawn. And I mean, the room was twice the size of the desk, I think. I'm not joking. Chris could tell you. Really, really tiny. But the point was just to get it done, to get something out there. We really wanted to do the show. And when I interviewed you for it, you were talking about how little progress we've made in science in combating pandemics.

1:37:09Because in 1918, the advice was, where am I to ask wash your hands? That's right. And 100 years later, 103 years later, where am I to wash your hands? It was so crushing to find that. I was really hoping that in 1918, they'd be like, drink a tincture of mercury and butterfly juice. Like, I was hoping to be like some bizarre thing. And I'm like, we've come a long way, baby. It's the exact same. How do you feel about the science now, though? So I will say this.

1:37:36And I honestly mean this. I think we owe a great debt of gratitude. To science. Science has, in many ways, helped ease the suffering of this pandemic, which was more than likely caused by science.

1:38:01Are you aware? And that's kind of, what was that? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is a joke. It's coffee. I would do that, too. So what do you mean by that? What do you mean by that? Do you mean that there's a chance that this was created in a lab, there's an investigation? A chance. Well, but I don't. Oh my god. There's evidence I'd love to hear. I tell you. There's a novel respiratory coronavirus overtaking Wuhan, China. What do we do? Oh, you know who we could ask? The Wuhan novel respiratory coronavirus lab. The disease is the same name as the lab. That's just a little too weird, don't you think?

1:38:45And then the astro scientists are like, how did this? So wait a minute. You work at the Wuhan respiratory coronavirus lab. How did this happen? And they're like, a pangolin, kistichard. And you're like, no. You're the name of your lab. If you look at the name, look at the name. Let me see your business card. Show me your business card. So when is this silicone bear, though? Co -bear keeps opening his mouth. Yeah. In Wuhan. Oh, because there's a coronavirus losing Wuhan. How did that happen? Maybe a bat flew into the cloaca of a turkey. And then it sneezed into my chili. And now we all have coronavirus.

1:39:30Like, come on. OK, wait a minute. What about this? See? Wait a second. See? All right, John. Oh my god. CS's stand up. Yeah, yeah. It's been an outbreak of chocolatey goodness near Hershey, Pennsylvania. What do you think happened? Like, oh, I don't know. Maybe a steam shovel made it with a cocoa bean. Or it's the chocolate factory. Maybe that's it. That couldn't be. Look at John Stewart. But you see how many times co -bear trying to car block his bit. But so this happened when this was, uh, look, they have the COVID -19 vaccine. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Two years ago. So this is in the heart of everything.

1:40:13Yeah. The chaos of it all. Yeah. And in Montreal, you probably know that we had some of the most authoritarian stuff on COVID. We laid into the pandemic. There was a curfew that you weren't allowed to walk your dog in your neighborhood after, you know, 8 p .m. or 10 p .m. or what it was. Now people really, there was an outcry, so they rescinded it. But just the fact that they did that. I mean, what would be the scientific evidence that suggests that walking your dog outside in the most... Super spreader event. Right. No, but I genuinely think though, and it's not, I'm not someone who just gives people a pass to be charitable.

1:40:55I genuinely don't think it was something nefarious. I think that it was just the fog of war. People are acting like idiots, thinking like they know what they're doing. And they made... I'm sure there's going to be a thousand doctoral dissertations written about the failure of public policy without it necessarily being a whole evil orchestrated thing. That's my sense. I think there's certainly a lot of that. And then there's certainly a lot of people that never really had the power to dictate what people can and can't do before. Like mayors and governors. They really didn't have the ability to shut down businesses before.

1:41:28And I think there's something creepy and weird about having that ability and that people, especially if their income doesn't change at all, they did not seem to have a problem doing unscientific things that stop people from making money, like shutting down outdoor dining. That didn't make any sense, and they did it for optics. Yeah. And the fact that that kind of stuff can happen. Like when you get... It gets real strange when people have power to do things. Because some people are just going to start doing those things. There's an interesting conversation to be had about what's going on in Canada right now with assisted suicide.

1:42:10Yeah. Because all you have to do is go to a doctor, I believe. The doctor recommends it and then one other doctor has to recommend it. So I don't know the specific mechanisms. You can find out what the specific mechanisms are. But people that are depressed are getting this as an option. The 2020 law was changed to include that those are serious and chronic physical conditions, even if that condition was non -life threatening. It's been available for adults since 2016. Okay, so since 2016, Canada's medical assistance in dying program, I'm known by the acronym made, has been available for adults with terminal illness.

1:42:51Okay. And in 2021, the law was changed to include those with serious and chronic physical conditions, even if that condition was non -life threatening. What would God say to you that if I have severe back pain? Is that fit under that? Yeah, you could... Well, I think even depression, I think, is an illness. It's considered an illness, right? Yeah. So if someone could like, instead of discouraging people, instead of saying, you know, having a suicide hotline, instead of like having people that have nowhere to go to, somewhere they can reach out and find help. Instead of that, you're saying, okay, we'll help you kill yourself.

1:43:25But that is, that's a weird one, man. That's a weird one to get behind, because I'm all for people that have terminal illnesses and don't want to... I mean, we do it to our dogs, right? Exactly. Our dog is dying. We have the dog put down. It's a humane way to take care of something that you love and care for. You don't want them to... I went through that five years ago, it's like the worst thing that I've ever gone through. It's horrible, it's devastating. How's your... I see sometimes photos, isn't it? He's been well. He's the sweetest. He's the best. Well, you know, in Canada, there are all sorts of problems.

1:43:57We're facing, I don't know if you heard about the story of the guy who just committed suicide, because he was being bullied by the diversity, inclusion, equity. Have you heard about the story? No, I didn't hear about this one. A 60 -year -old man who, from everything that I've heard, it was an exemplary principle, he had been told that he has to take some, you know, diversity, inclusion, equity stuff. And in one of those meetings, I don't know the exact details, but he had sort of raised some concerns. Shouldn't we be judging people based on, you know, emerita, cratic, ethos and so on? Because he said that.

1:44:30But he's actually quite a liberal person from what I've heard. But just the fact that he questioned the die cult, the diversity, inclusion, equity, they started hounding him, harassing him. He's a racist. He's got to take, you know, remedial courses, sensitivity, he ended up committing suicide. I'm sure, Zayn, you can pull it up just recently in the last week or two. Jordan Peterson wrote something about cancellation. Roach said that it's kind of being diagnosed with like a terminal illness. Yeah. Yeah, well, yeah, I mean horrible. Almost I forget what he said. But you know what, what, what, a lot of people have tried to cancel.

1:45:11I mean, now sometimes people say, oh, it's because you're 10 years that, you know, you can be courageous because otherwise you wouldn't be courageous. The reality is I get tons of death threats. I mean, last year I received the first time ever a in person death threat while walking with my son, necessitating that the Montreal police can involve. So there are many ways by which people can try to get you to modulate what you say and so on. It's a real problem. What is the number one thing that people have said at you about? Probably, and I haven't done it in a while just because I kind of lost interest.

1:45:44The most violent would be any criticism of Islam. And in this case, it was, I think someone who was of that faith because he looked like, he came from that background. And so people will get upset at me for all sorts of things. Valerie Bertonelli got upset at me once because I tweeted something about my wife having an uncomfortable interaction with someone, a barista who was transgender. And she got super upset and two days later, 26 million tweets later, all the, as they've she put on the alphabet, people were really coming after me. But that doesn't have the timber of, you know, we want to kill you.

1:46:21When you start criticizing some Islamic stuff, then it can get pretty hairy. And I think that's one of the things that's maybe different about, say, Jordan and me. I think he, he received a lot more hate than I do. But some of the hate that I receive is really unique in that it's both Jew -related. And he actually mentioned this recently that, you know, I, I'm in a unique, but unique position in that I receive a lot of hate that's related to my being Jewish. So cover being Jewish and then criticizing some Islamic tenets. So for example, I've seen at times when I've come on the show and we've talked about, I remember one time I talked to you about the hatred of black dogs as sanctioned by Muhammad himself.

1:47:06And then all sorts of people started saying, he's making this stuff up. He's bullshit. Why don't you bring a real Islamic person on the show? You can just look it up. I mean, Jamie can now check it that there is within Islam a hatred for black dogs. So even the most, you know, is that a translation issue? Does that mean the color black for sure? It's black dogs, yes, specifically black dogs. Now, I think it comes from the fact, I don't know the exact theological reason, but I think that Muhammad himself had had a fear of black dogs. And so he sanctioned it as a kind of divine prescription. It's not, it couldn't possibly mean something else.

1:47:47Meaning what? I mean, the color black means to the hills. The alleged Hadith, which regards black dogs as evil, has been rejected by the majority of Islamic scholars, has fabricated. Nevertheless, Islamic scholars have tended to regard dogs saliva as impure. Yeah, so that basically comes from just fabricated? Well, but pretty much anything that you say, someone will say, oh, it's fabricated. So in Islam, there's a thing called nejis, which is like impure things. So for example, the qufar, the non -Muslim is himself impure. Well, urine is impure. The dog saliva is impure. So if you were to be licked by a dog or something, then you'd have to redo your purity ritual before you pray, because you've been touched by nejis, by something that is impure.

1:48:37So there are many debates, depending on the Hadith, as to whether something is authentic or not. But there is certainly, as Jamie just pulled out, the fact that there is within certain Islamic thought that black dogs are uniquely bad. And so just if I say that on your show, there'll be some Islamic guy who says, you know, the Jew is making the stuff up and so on. And so it's, now I've stayed away from it recently, not because I'm trying to shy away from it, just because I've said all that I have to say about the matter, and I've moved on. But the hatred comes from all forms. I can criticize feminism.

1:49:14I'll get women's group attacking me. If I attack something about transgender issues, I'll get criticized. And so the hate is endless.

1:49:26That's a horrible thing to experience.

1:49:32Especially from a guy like you that literally fled it. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, and when I would, I think in our earlier chats, many years ago, we've talked about Islamic immigration and so on. And I hold zero hatred. I think you know me enough to know that I have tons of Muslim friends. I probably know more Muslim guys than most people will ever meet. I never criticize individuals. I criticize individuals. I criticize ideologies. So does Islam codify the right of people to criticize Islam or not? If you're in an Islamic country, well, the answer to that is very clear. And the answer is not one that promotes freedom of speech.

1:50:12Me saying that doesn't imply that I'm being hateful towards Muslims, I'm just literally talking about the Islamic doctrines. Just like there are doctrines in Deuteronomy that we can, you and I can decide to criticize. And I think most Muslims, even some of whom are students in my class who've heard me talk about these things, not in a classroom setting, but in public, are very fair. And they'll say, you know, you're a very fair guy. You never, but other ones will send me emails and stuff that are just brutal, that are really great. And I have to say I'm someone who's, if I can speak of myself quite courageous, but that in person, a threat that I receive when I was walking with my son was really truly harrowing because I could never rise to that threat, right?

1:50:58Because the way that guy was speaking to me, he always had more, you know, I had more to lose than him. And so there was never going to be a situation where if he decided to act on his hatred, I could have ever lived up to that challenge. And so for several weeks, I was really being careful going, you know, trying to avoid that street. And it doesn't make sense that in the 21st century, a professor in Canada should have to worry about, you know, which street he walks on because some idiot is threatening him in front of his 10 -year -old son. It's incredible. Yeah. It is very terrifying. When you think about rigid things that are in certain religious doctrines, what do you think the roots of some, like the forbidden foods?

1:51:40Do you think the roots were initially that those foods got people sick? Oh, yes. But there was a pandemic attached to them. Oh, I, what a great question. Thank you. In the consuming instinct, one of my earlier books, 2011, I have a whole analysis of certain kosher laws from an evolutionary biological perspective. And it's exactly what you just intimated. So pork. So pork, right? So the idea, so imagine ancient Jews walking around in an environment where there's no refrigeration, where the shellfish that might be tainted with a particular pathogen or not, you can't smell it. You can't see it. All that you know is that some people ingested and dropped dead and others don't.

1:52:27There is no mechanism by which I can learn the statistical regularities between A and B. Therefore, the only possible conclusion that I can come to is that it's a divine prohibition. There must be some divine reason. So even that theological prescription, I can analyze it from an evolutionary perspective. Now, when I did that, let's say for kosher laws, I didn't get rabbis writing to me saying, how dare you, we're going to kill you for arguing that it's not divine. If I do the exact same thing with some Islamic doctrine, very respectfully, very properly, most Muslims will hear it and say, yeah, fair enough, professors out.

1:53:06But if you will say, how dare you, you should be killed. And that makes no sense. And a free society? No, it doesn't. And it doesn't mean that the root of any of these religious doctrines weren't from God himself. Like, who knows? Who knows what the root of this stuff is. But the root of most of them, for sure, is gone through people. And the conversations have gone through people. It's like really clear in the Bible, especially in the New Testament. We know the people that, but the origins of it is what's the most fascinating to me. It's like, where did it start from? What were the, when the first guy wrote it down?

1:53:52Like, especially when you're talking about ancient Christianity or whatever it was before it was even called Christianity. When I was in Greece, I was with Brian Murerescu. And he wrote this book about the Illusinian mysteries called The Immortality Cates, an amazing book. And in this book, it all details these rituals that they used to do. And, you know, thousands of years ago, where they were drinking wine that were laced with psychedelics and coming up with democracy.

1:54:25Like, when you're in those kind of environments, when you're in a place that like used to be, this like amazing utopian society, or at least transformative society that never existed before. And then you're walking around the ruins like, I wonder if they saw it coming. They saw the end coming. Because are we seeing the end coming? Because it doesn't seem like that. I hope not. Do you know, I mean, when you see like, and you realize they built, they built the Parthenon. When you're there looking at that thing, you're like, yeah, that's amazing. What did you do? Yeah. How did you do this? How did you do this 2 ,000 plus years ago?

1:55:02And it's all designed with the golden ratio in mind. It's why you old craftsmanship. I actually talk about, in my current happiness book, I talk about different correlates with happiness. How does personality correlate with happiness? How does culture correlate with happiness? Marriage and so on. One of the sections I talk about religiosity and happiness are religious people on average happier. And the answer turns out that there is a moderate positive correlation between religiosity and happiness. Now, that makes perfect sense in that religion provides me with structure, it provides me with greater commonality.

1:55:42It creates a nice demarcation between in -group and out -group. Therefore, people in my in -group, I can cooperate with, I have created a cohesion. So, there are very functional earthly reasons for why, if I am religious, it's going to lead to greater happiness. But what I try to also argue in the book is that that shouldn't cause people who are not religious to despair, that they're not going to be as happy. Because I, and I'm not sure what your religious views are, but I'm very much rooted in my Jewish identity, but in a cultural sense, I'm not very much of a believer. But I am very much someone who sees the divine in things, right?

1:56:20My having a friendship with you being able to text you for me to come on this show is a divine thing. My being able to bond with my Belgian shepherds in the way in this pure love is a divine thing, meeting a random stranger with whom I have this fantastic conversation for 30 minutes is a manifestation of divine. So, I think we can be quite spiritual in our day to day without necessarily couching it in some supernatural religious narrative. Or what are your thoughts? I would agree with that, but I would also say that for a lot of people, those religious narratives are like a scaffolding for which they can establish a better life.

1:57:00And I meet a lot of people that are devoutly religious, particularly devoutly Christian or devoutly Muslim, that are very disciplined and live their life because of this extreme belief, live their life in a very dis, and often very successful way. And I think there's a piece that they have in a true belief. There's a piece that you have that there's a God that's got a plan for this whole thing and just worship that God and do the right thing and you're going to be okay. But do you, I mean, so for again, from a purest perspective, I think it's less impressive for me to do the right thing because otherwise, there is a big guy who's judging me than to do the right thing for no other reason than it being the right thing to do.

1:57:49I think the latter is a lot more impressive, right? Do you agree? Sure, but the big guy is a part of you and you're judging you. So you're not just doing something so that he doesn't judge you, you're doing something so that you don't judge you. Fair enough. So you are also God because you are also watching you do this thing. Well, I've evolved a moral compass to use an evolution thing for social species that makes perfect sense for us to have evolved a distinction between right and wrong. If you wrong me, there's going to be retribution. So we evolved that emotion. So I often get frustrated when religious people say, sure, evolution explains a lot of things, but it can explain morality.

1:58:29That's simply not true. There's a lot of very clear evolutionary reasons for why a social species would have evolved a moral compass. That makes sense. Yeah, it's not something that exists outside of the purview of science. And I think, I mean, there are several people I think that have been on this show that have Michael Schirmer, Sam Harris, that have written about the fact that the moral compass is totally within the purview of science. It completely makes sense that there's a moral compass and it also makes sense you're talking about these divine moments. I think it's all these things and then some.

1:59:07I think it's all these things and then some. I think to just sort of rationalize it down to survival instincts and and sort of have that dismissive reductionist view of what it means to be a person and have these experiences in life and what life is. And I think we're trying to label something that is almost impossible to believe is true. That I'm saying sounds with my mouth and you know what I'm thinking. We're like sharing a context and language and we have all these words that are connected to very specific things that we're very aware of. Meanwhile, we're hurling through infinity on an organic spaceship that's spinning a thousand miles an hour in a shooting gallery of asteroids comets and this is all all these things are true and we're finite life forms that are constantly innovating and trying to escape the boundaries of our eventual demise physically, psychologically.

2:00:07We're trying to connect each other on the internet and put chips in our brains and it's wild what's happening. And in the middle of all this, there's a battle, a true battle in 2023 over censorship, a real battle like the likes of which I've never seen because as a kid growing up, there was no arguments against freedom of speech in America. I do not remember ever seeing someone argue against freedom of speech. It certainly wouldn't have been someone on the left. Yeah, it's good. No, I'm saying that that alone is it's a terrifying thing. It's like people are literally crafting the shackles that are going to eventually contain them and they're doing so greedily and enthusiastically.

2:00:57So can I offer a philosophical explanation for why I think this is happening? Sure. Some of your viewers may have heard me mention this elsewhere, but it's worth repeating. So in my last book in the Pericetic Mind, I talk about two ethical systems, the anthological ethics and consequentialist ethics. The anthological ethics is an absolute statement. For example, if I say it is never okay to lie, that is a de -entological statement. If I say it is okay to lie to spare someone's feelings. So the example that I often give is if your spouse asks you, do I look fat in those genes, then put on your consequentialist hat really quickly and then lie.

2:01:33So for most things, most of us are going to be consequentialist, but when it comes to certain fundamental principles that define, say, Western values, those have to be de -entological. And so as to your point, until very recently, we all agreed that presumption of innocence was a de -entological statement that can't have a butt -associated. You can't say, I believe in presumption of innocence, but not for breath cavernal. I believe in freedom of speech, but not for Donald Trump. And so one of the reasons why I've gotten into a beef with someone that we both know well is because that person has repeatedly violated what he should know better, which is that de -entological principles by definition should never have the butt -qualifier.

2:02:24But now it has become perfectly okay when talking about freedom of speech to tackle it from a consequentialist perspective. Don't criticize Islam because that means you're hurting people's feelings, therefore shut your mouth. No, you can criticize Islam, you can criticize Judaism, you can criticize evolution, you could do whatever, there is no butt. And I think if we can ever return to understanding the distinction between de -entological and consequentialist, I think we'll be back on the right track. What do you think got us on the wrong track in the first place? So I think it's the distinction between reason and feelings.

2:03:01We're both a reasoning animal and a thinking animal, but there's been now too much emphasis placed on feelings, right? So if I tell a truth that is hurtful to someone, then I should not tell the truth. So I've often, when I went in front of the Canadian Senate as the Jordan, I for Bill C -16, the transgender bill, neither of us was arguing that transgender people shouldn't live with full dignity and so on. But what we were arguing is that in the pursuit of that noble goal, you don't murder truth, right? So if I were to say, it's insane for six foot four biological males to walk into female spaces, that makes no sense.

2:03:45I'm not erasing transgender people, right? But if the optimization metric is make sure to not hurt people's feelings, you start conflating these things. Does that make sense? Yeah. But it's also there's no way to stop someone from like if someone is a legitimate pervert and all they have to do say they're a woman and now they go to the woman's bathroom, there's no way to stop that. I'm not saying that that's the majority of people. I'm not I'm saying there are human beings that are like that and this does not in any way discount trans people. This just says there's people that will game the system and there's no safeguards in place.

2:04:32So if you want to protect people from that, I don't know how you would do it other than having some sort of security in each women's bathroom to make sure that no one's creeping on people, which is outside impossible. You cannot have that. Well, I mean, think about again, the ontological principles until three minutes ago, 117 billion people had existed. That's roughly the estimate of how many people have ever existed, who fully understood that there were two phenotypes in the human species called male and female and nobody disagreed as to what that was. But suddenly now it is really controversial to argue that and that's why I do some of the satire and sarcasm on social media.

2:05:14It's not to be mean or flippant. It's because the only way you can handle some of the loons you were saying is through the region, through mockery because it's insane. I mean, we are the product of 117 billion people who exactly knew how coupling works. But now we can no longer say it. When we refer to Leah Thomas, the six foot four swimmer, we can't say that that's a male because that's a female because she said so. It's insane. It is insane. And it's wild to watch. It's wild to watch young people just adopt it wholesale because if you're a female athlete, it's not good. Well, it's not good. It's unfair.

2:05:56And I mean, that's the exact idea, right? Because people talk about it's unfair to this transgender athlete. What about the unfairness to all of the biological females who are being screwed by this, right? There was a woman who came on trigonometry recently and she had a very detailed depiction of all the different advantages that with even with a reduction of testosterone that the male frame has, particularly in developing power, power -related things, the shape of the hips, the angle from the hips down to the knees. Joe, I've had conversations with physicians. Not that you need a physician to confirm that there's male or female.

2:06:35But how could you be a medical doctor and actually espouse some of the nonsense such as there are no sex differences between men and women? I've had anesthesiologist. I've had gynecologist who argued that transgender medicine recognizes that the antiquated binary is no longer valid. That's insane. How could you be a gynecologist and practice gynecology not knowing that? Maybe you're on ketamine. I don't know. I don't know how things got this bonkers. But I think that if you have a group or you can't question anything about it, you're going to have problems because then you have a protected group and crazy people can join that group.

2:07:19And that is a real factor. We've seen it. It's a thing. You see it with these cases where these males with fully intact penises are wandering around women's locker rooms and women are freaking out. And they're like, no, I'm a woman. And they're like, what can you say? If you see, there's this thing that Matt Walls did an interview with this guy. He's a politician. Let me find this because it's so crazy. So this guy who is a biological male, here, I'll send you this, Jimmy. I'll send you this story behind it. But there's a video of him talking to Matt Walls. And on the documentary. No, it's not a documentary here.

2:07:58So this guy, we'll pull up the story. So he is a biological male who has come out as a woman of color who's a lesbian. And he does it with a fully facetiously, but he's doing it with a full straight face. And the way when you hear them talk, it's amazing because it's checkmate. And they're saying, if this was true, we would be clapping and applauding him, but we don't think it's true. But this like throws the whole thing. Find the actual interview if you could online because it's amazing. The way this guy does, this guy deserves, he should be in the next Tarantino movie. He said, he said, the way he lays it down is so perfect.

2:08:53And he does it fully straight faced. And now they're saying, if this was true, we would be applauding him, but it's not true. And so that's the problem with the whole thing. So you think in the deep recesses of all those folks, his minds who come out as and support of men who have penises are women. Do you think that they know that it's bullshit or have they been so parasitized that they actually believe their nonsense? I think a lot of them believe it. And I think a lot of them that belief is confirmed by their social groups, who also not just believe it, but enforce belief in it. There's a social pressure to enforce belief in it.

2:09:32And I've seen it. I've seen it in action. I've seen women have arguments with people that are pro trans rights and these women are arguing that there's pro trans rights and then there's are racing women's rights, including like the athletic argument, including the the female spaces, like intimate spaces, locker rooms, bathrooms. It's a very controversial subject in this strange culture we live in. And it's one thing that people can subscribe to one side or the other and find a group willingly, vehemently opposed to their position. So they engage in instantaneous conflict. So they're involved in the psychic war with competing ideologies and it gives them meaning.

2:10:14That's a real problem with human beings. Yeah. That we do attach ourselves to things. Even if those things don't involve you or your life you decide like this is the movement that I'm going to get behind stand behind and I'm going to tell you and it gives you meaning. Yeah. Like you're a social justice warrior for the rights of the distant franchise. You know, and there's something to be said for actually doing that. Of course there's something to be said for actually standing up for people who don't have a voice and doing the right thing. There is something to be said for that. But there's also something to be said for to be able to look at this from both sides.

2:10:45And if you're an 11 year old girl and there's some guys dick in your face in the girls bathroom like what? This guy's just walking around naked in the locker room and you're a kid like is that okay? Yeah. I mean how do you know what's happening here? Like what would you know are you sure? Yeah. Like and in some cases when someone's like so feminine and so so like seems like a woman you didn't we wouldn't have any problem with it right? Well, I mean there is a normal distribution. For example, when it comes to you know women who are very masculine, men who are very feminine. We've always recognized that.

2:11:25But we've never taken the step into the abyss of infinite lunacy where we say sometimes women can have penises. I mean that's I mean and that's why I wrote the parasitic mind the last book right because I was really literally arguing that human minds can be parasitized by ideological worms in the way that you can be parasitized by actual brainwars right? Because there is no rational mechanism by which you can take a sexually reproducing species involving two phenotypes. There aren't any more than two. There's male and there's female nothing else. And then argue that that's simply not true. It's antiquated to argue that boys have penises and women girls have vagina.

2:12:07I actually satirically put out a tweet where I argued for finger fluidity and finger diversity. I argued that if you're born congenitally with nine fingers or nine toes then we should no longer be teaching in biology class that boys and girls are born with ten fingers. I was being facetious but that's exactly the logic that they're using right? Of course there are some people who are born intersex and of course they have the right to live a dignified life free of bigotry that doesn't mean though that we have to go back and rewrite the anatomy and biology books. And that's why I fight all these battles online and so on because I truly am allergic to bullshit.

2:12:51I am very de -enthological when it comes to truth. And I get personally offended when I see people espousing all that nonsense. What is it that Dennis Prager was just talking about? There was some video that came across my Instagram feed that was him saying that whatever medical organization is recommending that children not be labeled male or female because they don't have the ability to choose. They can't tell you how they identify. Let's find out because it's something crazy. I remember reading it going, I'm not ready for this. I'm sure to do. Now children are being taught that medical professionals to their best of their ability take a educated guess as to the sex of a child.

2:13:45Really? Until three minutes ago, 117 billion people knew exactly how to assort into male and female but now we no longer abide by those antiquated binaries. I mean it's insane. So why can't we chew gum and walk at the same time? I think both you and I are very socially liberal. I don't care one way or the other about what transgender people do. That doesn't mean that I have to accept the fact that a guy with a penis can call themselves a girl and I have to just say, MN. Yeah, it seems crazy to have to agree to that. And it's not discounting the idea of trans people. It's real. But it seems crazy to force everyone to go along with what was called gender dysphoria up until very recently.

2:14:37Exactly. And there was a psychological condition that they would talk about and issue that people had. Well, and to the point, remember earlier, I put up the dress or Jamie put up the dress to girl movie, in the past when you wanted to have a sex change operation, the number of steps that you had to go through before you were accepted for sex change reassignment was quite asidious. And it made perfect sense because it's a really, you know, it's something that you can't undo. And so it made perfect sense that you'd have to go through. And now a five -year -old can say that they are and you're not allowed to question it.

2:15:15It's really it's just insane. And you can put them on hormone blockers. And you can put them on home exam. And there's so many problems. How about they're finding now the people that have hormone blockers? Charles Reese Theron adopts two kids from Africa, two boys. And it turns out statistically that it's perfectly reasonable that both of them are now girls. Have you seen that? I saw some meme. I wasn't sure that it was true. If that is true, that seems very unlikely statistically, doesn't it? No, of course. I mean already. What are the odds? So I think it's one in something like 10 ,000 that you have like full blown gender dysphoria in the order of that magnitude.

2:16:01So if you have two, so it's two independent events. So it's one out of 10 ,000 times one out of 10 ,000. That's a very small number. Let's steal man this. Okay. Well, what's the most charitable explanation for this? That's why she's doing this? Why is this the case? Why is this the case that she adopts two kids and that they turn out to be girls? So I don't think it's a charitable explanation, but I think it's the correct one. And I talked about it in the last book. So I talk about Munchhausen syndrome by proxy. So Munchhausen syndrome is when I fake an illness myself to gardener sympathy and empathy.

2:16:36Munchhausen syndrome by proxy is when I harm someone under my care to garner the empathy by proxy. So it could be my child. It could be my dog. It could be my elderly parent. And so I've argued that transgenderism as by as exhibited by many of these progressive is a form of Munchhausen syndrome by proxy. Look at me, the super progressive woman who's got two transgender kids. So it's a very, very diabolically narcissistic. I don't pretend to be psychoanalyzing or but you ask me for my prediction or opinion, I think that's what it is. Yeah, I was trying to find is there an explanation that would make like I would like to know like what is what is someone who truly believes that that's normal?

2:17:22What do they think? Who believes that what is normal? That it's just normal that those two boys turned out to be girls. What's people who live in Lala? Because we know that statistically it's just impossible. It's like winning the lottery. Right, but people do win the lottery, right? Yeah. So what would be your most charitable explanation? That would be the most charitable. It's just to just turn out that these two boys, but there's still a lot of evidence that if you like especially with boys that exhibit that they turn out to be gay, feminine gay men. Yeah, which used to be fine. Yeah. And now it's like, you know, like Tim Dillon has an argument about it that a lot of this is really homophobic.

2:18:05Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I got that argument. Yeah, it's an interesting argument because the guy, the progenitor of this kind of stuff is, I don't know if you know him, John Money. Do you know what that is? No. John Money was a psychologist at Johns Hopkins University who's really the father of social constructivism who argued basically that you know, you could take any boy and any girl raised them in the opposite, you know, gender role and then they would be that. And the classic example which you may have heard of was David Rimer, whose penis was botched during a circumcision. They put a dress on him, said, call him whatever Linda.

2:18:45And then he ended up committing suicide. Well, the guy who started all that was John Money at Johns Hopkins. And so we can really lay the him as the original culprit because a lot of surgeons would go to John Money for his expert advice. Good question about this story. Sorry. I saw this meme door on two. This is where it came from, right? The picture. Yeah. When I'm looking up the story about her adopting kids, yeah. All I'm seeing is that she had adopted one daughter in that in 2019, the other one said that she was not a boy and that she is a daughter also. And so that they're both daughters.

2:19:22So one of them is biological. One is a real daughter. And that's why I was trying to find out the actual, I don't know, like digging through the stories. Nothing actually says biological, anything. Well, then I really appreciate Jill's your, your careful when you, you know, at the start, you said, I don't know if that's true or not. Yeah. So that, I think that's one of the reasons why I think a lot of people listen to you because exactly of that careful thing. I mean, you can get upset at it. And you could also, there's a lot of people that I know that will say their child is LBGTQ because their child is, they call themselves non -binary.

2:19:59I've seen this happen before. Like, people, they wave it like a flag that it's like this amazing thing that they have a queer child. And the kid is just like, no, I'm just not, I don't fucking nothing. I don't want to be this. It's gonna be whatever. Or they're just identifying as it because the identity thing is very new. And when you give kids an opportunity to distinguish themselves from other people, whether it's, there's a lot of things that people do that with. They get into certain things, they get into certain social groups, getting certain hobbies and sports together. But there was a thing that happened recently in, whether they just study in New Jersey, they found out that there's a 4 ,000 percent increase in kids calling themselves non -binary.

2:20:40It's just like, I mean, at what point in time do we examine whether or not social pressures or play in the hardest part? Well, that's the Lisa, is that Lisa Littman or Lisa Littman? She was a researcher at Brown University who argued for the, the rapid onset of trans gender thing as a social contagion. And I don't know if you remember, I talked about this in my last book. At first, Brown University had put out all these promotional alerts about, you know, here's one of our research, you're publishing this great paper and a top journal and so on. And then the transgender activists came after her because how dare you be arguing that it's a social contagion, that it's not a real thing.

2:21:21And I'm not sure if they pulled the paper, maybe Jamie can tell us, but she really, I'd even invited her on my show to offer her a platform to support her and she had laid low because of the blowback she was getting. Well, Abigail Shryer is an experienced tremendous amount of that. And she was one of the first people to talk about it. And when she talked about it on the podcast, I was, I wasn't aware that it was that big of an issue. And that there's so many particularly like young autistic girls that dive into this. And that also there's a certain thing that happens when they start injecting testosterone that it gives them this like feeling of euphoria, you know, and that it does alleviate something like it has an effect.

2:22:05Yeah, of course. The logical effect on, and so they think this is what I've been missing my whole life, which is really kind of crazy to think that I mean, it's, it's a weird thing. It's like this, either, especially when it comes to like encouraging surgery as encouraging it for really young people, are we, when did we stop believing that young people are impressionable? Right. When did we stop believing that young people should not make life changing choices when they're really young because they don't know what the fuck is going on. We've always said that with tattoos. We've always said that with, you know, body modifications.

2:22:45And look at the cognitive and consistently when it comes to age because if progressive will say that a 17 year old who's 17 years old, 364 days and one day he's going to be 18 who lies and wait kills his parents to pick up the insurance, the progressive will argue, well, you can't put him in prison for life. He's just a child. His brain is still going to develop until he's 25. So for that issue from this side of my mouth, I say that that he's too young, but from this side of my mouth, I'll say that a four -year old is perfectly capable of saying, I am in the opposite body and shut up. Don't question it.

2:23:25Those two things can't go against it. Yeah, someone has to be a horrible monster for people to agree that this person needs to be tried as an adult. Right. You know, like some boy stabs his whole family to death like crazy shit like that. Right. And which does happen. I think there was a case of something like that recently where kids stabbed his mother to death and they tried him as an adult. I think he stabbed a girl to death. Now I'm screwing it up. I think he stabbed a girl that he went to high school with to death and left her in the woods. That's what it is, I think. I just watched a documentary on the dating show serial killer.

2:24:01Have you seen this guy? Do you know this story? No. The dating show, Jamie, I'm sure is going to pull it out. It's a guy who was really diabolical. I mean, he was attacking eight -year -old girls. He was attacking 25 -year -old. Well, here was this. This would be 70s. Oh, yeah, we did talk about this once. Yeah. Then he appeared on the famous dating show where a woman is interviewing three guys. That's guy. That's the guy. Yeah. So I remember that. I do remember that. Yeah. And it's funny because he won that show and then the woman decided not to go out with him because she found him creepy. So she had the right antenna to pick up his creepiness whereas other people didn't and paid.

2:24:47So he was a serial killer. But not just a serial killer, because he did not have a unique demographic group. Typically, serial killers will focus. I only go after boys. I only go after this guy had what's caught in the act of suffocating an eight -year -old girl. And she didn't pass away. He was, I think, sexually assaulting her. But he's also done it to 25 -year -old. So this guy was, now this is not the, now progressive will tell you that this guy is like that because something happened in his background that made him that way. He couldn't have been born damaged, right? It's the social constructivist argument where all born empty slate and it's only society that either makes us good or bad.

2:25:30Yeah. And therefore they would want to re -above. And by the way, the justice system released him several times when in a real de -enthological world that guy would have been executed. By the way, I support the death penalty for guys like that. I supported if the legal system was clear. Yeah. There's just too many people that get accused and we've had a bunch of them on. They get accused of crimes that they didn't commit and spend decades in prison for murders and didn't commit. I've actually had a guy on my show, arguably the most remarkable story I've ever heard on my show. And I discuss it actually in my current book on happiness, talking about gratitude.

2:26:08He spent 29 years in prison for a murder that he was eventually exonerated of. On the show, I asked him, how is it that you go about your life? You're so put together, you're not full of vengefulness. You don't want to destroy the world. You must be Buddha. You're a much better man than I am. And his answer really speaks to the mindset of being a happy person and having gratitude. He said, well, I have a sister who's been bedridden with cerebral policy for much of her life and yet she manages to smile and be happy. So I don't really have much to complain about. So here's a guy who has had three decades stolen from him and yet he's still had the grace and dignity.

2:26:49I think we can all learn a lot from that lesson. Yeah. So that's why I have a hard time supporting the death penalty. Yeah. Because I think there's a lot of very corrupt prosecutors and a lot of very corrupt lawyers. The whole thing is it's human. But couldn't we just restrict it to the most? So if I find your DNA in the body of five dead children, that's the only time I will use the death penalty. Why not make it so extreme that your concern doesn't apply? I could agree with that. I see it at least on paper that I could agree with that. But the problem is people plan evidence. And you know, you could see like if there's a video of someone in the act of doing something, especially now with deep fakes, that's a problem again.

2:27:43But yeah, if someone was, especially if they're saying they're guilty, they show no remorse. Yeah. Like why should they be alive? But I just wish that we knew for sure that everybody who's locked up in jail for a crime was actually guilty of that crime. And that's not the case. So that's not the case. So there would be no context where you would ever sign up for the death penalty as it stands. I just think you're giving people the kind of power. For sure, if someone does something we know they did it, you want that. But it's a sort of akin to maybe the principles of free speech. Free speech applies even to people that you disagree with.

2:28:24The Holocaust, the Nights. Right. Yeah. The insane people, Nazis. Like that was what the the ADL used to support. Right? I think that if we were living in a world where there was no lies and they're, they're all the prosecutors and all the judges. We're all above board and just impeccable sense of ethics and morals. And you could trust them to know the truth. Then yeah. But that's not the case. Yeah. So in a flawed society like the one that we live in, I can't support something that's killing innocent people. Right. Even if it's killing guilty people too. Yeah. It's like if it kills 10 guilty guys and one innocent guy, we fucked up.

2:29:08Yeah. And I think that I don't know what the number is of people that are unjustly accused. But it's got to be high. Yeah. And then there's people that are in jail for things that are very minor. And then while in jail, why not killing somebody? Well, I mean to your point, I think the innocent's project has demonstrated that there have been men who are on death row who are exonerated. Many cases. So that speaks to your point. Many cases. And my good friend Josh Duven has worked with a lot of these different people. And through the show, a few of them have actually wind up being exonerated. Wow.

2:29:43Yeah. He's a fascinating guy. And he's dedicated himself to finding these cases and helping these people. And he's gotten a bunch of them out. And their stories are insane. And because of that, because knowing that those exist, I can't support something that's going to possibly kill those people. There's just too much corruption. There's too much, you can demonstrate that you could see it. There's cases after case of the case of prostracute is getting arrested. DA is getting arrested and lawyers. And it's too, there's too much fuckery. Yeah. It's a human issue. You know, and unless we knew that humans were telling the truth, you know, you can't, it's just too, it's too much of a, and to do it, imagine if you're the person who executes this person, then you find out that person was innocent.

2:30:33Like, oh my god, you got to live with that. That person, not only did you steal three decades of your life, but then you took their life or something that didn't even do. That's the reason why. And isn't it in firing squads when you have a whole bunch of people and they're exactly. Yeah, but what about lethal injection? Yeah, there is someone who's literally doing it. It was what's going on there. You know, it would do it with a computer. Okay, whatever. You know what you're doing. You know what you're doing. I mean, you can find all sorts of ways to rationalize it. Yeah. But morally, of course, you'd want that person to remove from society.

2:31:06If you found out that someone in your community back in the day, in the tribal days, was raping children, you'd want to kill them. Exactly. And justly so. Yeah, we actually, I can't remember who actually yesterday, the guys that came over at the hotel, we were talking about, you know, parenting with the, with the threat of, you know, protecting your children from a pedophile. And I've argued that my approach to parenting has been, I don't trust anyone with my children precisely because the one who is going to commit those infractions is not someone that has, you know, hidden horns that you can see.

2:31:46It is your uncle, it is grandpa, it is the really sweet neighbor. It is the person. And so I have actually had, not heated, but, you know, disagreements with my wife, where she thought I was being too paranoid about this. And my answer is, my job is to always air on the side of safety. So there's no sleepovers, there's no sleep away camp because there is going to be this, this, the counselor there who is a pig. And then I would have miserably failed in my job. And so my job while you are under my protection is to make sure that I never put you in a position where this could happen. What happens after when you're an adult, that's your business.

2:32:27What are your thoughts? I think, no, I think, I feel what you're saying. I think you also have to let your children expose the, they have to, like, they have to be in the real world. They have to experience different kinds of people. And to protect them too much is actually damaging to their development. So there's a fine dance that you do. So that's the anti fragility. Yeah. There's a fine dance. And, you know, you think about just your experience, I mean, it's horrible to say that any bad experiences were good for you. But oftentimes they, you develop character through a lot of adversity in your life.

2:33:04Oh, I completely agree. How much adversity do you want to expose your children to? And then there's the question of things like predators. I've actually argued in the happiness book. I argued that what I went through in the Lebanese Civil War paradoxically makes me a happier person. Because anytime that I start whining about something that's pissing me off, I can always pull back from my memory. I had the miracle of escaping the Middle East intact. So what am I whining about? Right. So you're exactly on point that the fact that I've gone through those horrors makes me the happier person I am to that.

2:33:40Yeah, I think perspective, you know, that's the thing about anyone that I've met that's come from some war torn part of the world when they make it to America, especially if they're in a place that's safe and nice. Yeah. They just have an immense appreciation and their perspective is very different. They're also like people that come from communist countries in particular. They are just so allergic to that horshit. Yeah. When they see it coming, any Marxist ideology, they see it coming, they're like, fuck you. Yeah, fuck you. We know where this goes. This goes to if you give up all your possessions and everything goes to this state and everything gets distributed evenly.

2:34:18Like, how do you enforce that? Like, who gets the choose? Like, what the fuck are you signing up for? But these idealistic kids that think that the world could be a better place with socialism. If that we all just like no one should, I saw this thing argued. This guy argued online, no one should ever be able to make a million dollars and that you should be restricted to a certain amount of income that allows you to have a certain like it's bit specified the certain size apartment that you should be allowed in anything else is in excess. Amazing. And it's an attack on the freedoms of others. It's like, this is fascinating takedown by this like, you know, super progressive, probably college kid.

2:35:03Well, I have these ideas. I've seen it. So I think last year when I came on the show, I might have been right on the throws of having all my book royalties stolen from my last book from the tax authorities, right? And so I was really pissed about it. And whenever I would post a tweet sort of condemning the parasitic taxation system, there would be people who would write to me with complete entitlement Canadians and saying, well, why should you get to keep the money instead of you not being a selfish pig and sharing it with others? So my book royalties, my thoughts, my ideas, my humor is not mine as a matter of fact, and according to the Canadian government, about 58 % is owned by them.

2:35:45But it really comes from having this idea inculcated in you, which is that we should all have equality of outcomes. It is a cancer and it is an affront to human meritocracy. It's unbelievable. The argument against that would be that there's a certain reality to the way you were, the way you're living in this life, and that you have resources available and you have things available that other people don't have, and it would be better if you had less and then it balanced out. So if you give a little bit more and then eventually balance out, the problem is it's not bouncing out. The problem is like, where's the money going?

2:36:32Well, the money is going to the government and they get to decide how it's spent and they get to pass laws and dictate and send a little here and well, there's a war, so we're going to need more and then there's inflation, it comes with the war, there's the price of gas and food and everything goes up and all this is happening and you can't say shit about it. And you're in this position where you're like, well, if you complain, well, you're a man of privilege, you're privileged and you should be giving that up and if you gave it up, the world would be a better place. I don't have any faith in their ability to use my taxes to make the world a better place.

2:37:10I have zero faith. I willingly and happily pay my taxes because I think it's part of being an American. You contribute, even if the system is flawed, you contribute to at least some of it is going to fixing roads and some of it is going to education and healthcare or whatever it is. Some of it's got to be going to people that care and are really trying to make the world a better place. Some of it is got to be going to whatever whatever organizations that are doing a good job. But the idea that if you just keep, like some people think they should have a 90 % tax bracket, it's like if you're a billionaire, you don't deserve to have a billion, you should just give up.

2:37:48Well, guess what, they're not going to work. Yeah, exactly. People are going to get upset. They're not going to innovate. You don't have a quality of effort. There's a lot of equality. People talk about equality. There's not an equality of effort. There's not a quality of intelligence. There's not a quality of skill of talent. And it's genuinely anti -human nature. I'm not sure if I've said this before on this show, but E. O. Wilson, the famous Harvard biologist who he passed away now last year, I think, he studied social ants. And in social ants, everybody is equal other than the reproductive queen.

2:38:22So when he was asked about socialism, slash communism, his answer, which I love to always quote was, great idea, wrong species. Which perfectly captures, right? We're not all equal. Some of us are taller, shorter, harder working, less harder working. So there's no reason why we should all have a quality of outcomes. It is anti -human nature. It's not realistic. It's not realistic to expect people to work as hard as some people. They don't have to. You don't want to be Michael Jordan. Guess, well, don't fucking practice 12 hours a day. You don't have to be Michael Jordan. If you're happy, it's being a guy who works a job and likes to go hiking and like to go fishing or something, that's great.

2:39:01There's nothing wrong with that. But there's all kinds of people. And some people are going to be that guy. And when they are that guy, like you can't say you have to give up all your buddy, it's hard to be that. It's hard to be Michael Jordan. He deserves all that money. It's fucking impossible to be. Only one guy pulled it off. And you deserve all the money you make, my friend. Don't stop. Let's leave me out of this. Trusts skirt around that. But if you want it to be fair and send some to the Gatsad Trust Fund, what do you use your trust fund money for? I would use it to be able to use as escape velocity so that I don't have to answer to anybody.

2:39:41Have you because of the oppressive nature of the Canadian government if you ever thought about jumping ship? Oh my god. I think we were discussing the past. I think about it probably 30 times a day. Wow. I haven't been able to for two main reasons. Joe number one, both my family and my wife's family are in Montreal. So that's number one that keeps us there. Number two, it's very, very hard to walk away from a 10 -year professorship. I'm the best professor of the truth. Montreal is a great city too. It's a beautiful place to live. It is. It's a perfect amount of cold weather that develops adversity and care.

2:40:13I've heard you say that before, but that's spoken from a guy who's lived in Southern California and then Austin for too many years. I think you forgot that how bad that it is for me. Oh, I remember. I lived in Boston. I remember it sucks. It sucks hard. It sucks. But I'm not saying that it's good. I think it's good for you. Yeah. Like cold plunges are good for you. You know, they don't suck good while you're doing it sucks. But I think it's good for you. And I think there's something about being at the, you're at the mercy of nature for many months at a time. Yeah. For there's many months from November until Wednesday start warming up around April.

2:40:46Yeah, maybe April. Yeah, it can get cold as fuck in March. Cold as fuck in March. Yeah. Yeah. So there's so many months where it's so God damn cold that I think there's a certain humility that comes with that. Yeah. There's a certain of appreciations of the summer days because the summer days are they're enormously novel. Yeah, it's like what a beautiful thing. Like we just six months ago, we're just digging ourselves out to try to drive to the grocery store and dig yourself out of three feet of fucking snow. That's true. Everybody remembers that. Well, and that's why Montreal, there's kind of an orgyastic party field during the summer.

2:41:23Yeah, because we're making up for cocooning. Yes. I used to love doing comedy up there. We do the Montreal comedy festival and it was in the summer. That's right. And everybody was so happy. That's right. And I really clearly remember thinking that there's something to the kind of character that comes out of people that live in that place. It's not all of them, of course. Right. There's fuckheads at every corner of the world. But I just think there's something cool about that city. And it's also like it's very European, even though it's Canadian, it's a lot. And if you're making me feel good that I'm still there.

2:41:55I love it up there. It's a great place. It's great. I just don't love the kind of direction that the government is trying to take control of the country. That's what freaks me out. Taking control of narratives and taking control of what people say on social media and stopping protests and what they did with the Canadian truckers. Yeah. Well, I think, and again, to not to blow smoke up your behind, but one of the things that I think people appreciate about you is that you do change your opinion in light of new evidence. And I remember very vividly the first time that you and I spoke about Justin Trudeau, you were quite a fan.

2:42:31And then you revised your opinion. Well, I felt he's a very handsome man, very good speaker, but he's not really good speaker on the cuff off the cuff. It's really like when he has like a speech. It is a template. Yeah. And you know, he's a good looking guy. It's like when you see like a handsome fellow with nice hair, it's like, oh, I want him to be good. You know, it's funny that you say he's good looking because Megan Kelly came on my show and her view. And you would we would think that you would know how to judge the masculinity of someone. She said, I would never want that guy on top of me.

2:43:04He doesn't. Well, well, I mean, literally almost exactly that to the word. I'm sure that Jamie's going to pull it up any second now. But that's also him now, right? Where you know who he really is. I think. Is it girly girl? He thinks we got a boxing match. Hit a boxing match or some other politician. Did you ever see it? I did. Not terrible. Yeah. Not terrible. I mean, I'll defer to your boxing expertise through some hands. You know, as I'm not going after it. Yeah. But the what disturbs me is the way he's willing to discredit people that disagree with them like the Canadian truckers. Yeah. We're saying that they're often misogynistic and racist.

2:43:42Like, what are you talking about, man? The fact that they froze the bank accounts of people who donated money. That's insane. Insane. That's that's like banana republic shit. Yeah. That's scary. That's scary. Totalitarian shit. I had the spokesperson of the trucker convoy on my show. Yeah, it's unbelievable. And it's a test case for it is. Yeah, for totalitarian government tactics and they did not fail. They did not pass that test. They failed that test. And to the great discredited of my fellow Canadians, we've now three times. I mean, you don't vote for him. You vote for the party in a parliamentary system.

2:44:20But it's three times now that he's in and each time he's gotten, I think, no more than about 30 something percent of the vote. So that's one of the dangers of a parliamentary system. Even though two thirds of the people don't watch you there, he's now been prime minister since 2015. How does that work? Well, you're basically voting for the party. And then depending on how many seats are taken in the in the parliament, that's who becomes the majority. So it's not like the American system where I am voting for Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton. You're voting for a platform in your writing. Right. So if I'm voting for the liberal party, I'm voting for the liberal candidate in my writing.

2:45:01And now that is tallied up. And since he's the prime minister, the leader of that party, he then becomes the prime minister. And does anyone primary him? Do they have that sort of a situation where someone tries to challenge him from the same party? Only only in the when you're deciding who's going to be the leader of the party. So once someone's leader of the party, they know one or challenge that person. That's right. So I don't know the exact details. So as long as that party is in power, he's in power. He's in power. For how long? And there is no, I don't think there's a statue, not statue, what is it called the term limitation?

2:45:33Term limitations. Thank you. I don't think there is a statue. He could be dictator forever for like the next 4 ,000 years. It's unbelievable. Yeah. Great. One of the other reasons why I like to leave Canada and move to greener pastures. Yeah. It's just not good for people to have that kind of power. Yeah. It's almost never good. And especially when they start using it in that way, they start, you know, using it the way they're using it up there. It's like the clamping down of free speech is never done by the good guys. Yeah. It's not. It's not what it is. And when you're you're being fed propaganda and you know you're being fed propaganda and now you're expected to not say it, not talk about it and just accept it, that's not good for anybody.

2:46:15That's not good for anyone. It's only good for the people that are in power and it's only good for as long as they're alive. Because what they're going to leave behind is going to be a disaster. And if new people that are from the opposing party get into control, they're going to expand their control even further. And this is a terrible cycle that if you don't have very rigid rules on what can and can't be done, you open the door for tyranny. And that's that's what they're doing. And the worst part is that it's cloaked on the the robe of progressivism, right? It says he'll be prime minister until 2025.

2:46:44They broke it a deal. What does this say? As the top? It says they broke it a deal that will keep minority government in power until the next election. Yeah. Why they say minority government? What does that mean? So that means minority liberal government? That's the minority of the people in the country? No, it's in terms of the number of seats in the parliament. I don't know the exact number, but you could either be a majority government or minority government. Usually when you're a minority government, it's because you've you've set up an agreement with another party allowing you to, right? So in this case, it's the NDP.

2:47:19So the whole party is behind him, which is a problem. Yeah. And that's what would it take for someone from another party to win? Get them enough seats in the writings to overturn this also. Right now, the top guy and the conservative party is Pierre Poliev. I don't know if you've heard of him. I have. I think Jordan Peterson had him on his show. I'm not a huge fan. I don't know enough about his policy. So I don't want to misspeak. But I'm traditionally, I don't like someone who spent their entire career in politics and nothing else. I like the guys who, you know, they were surgeons or they were lawyers or they were businessmen and then they come into politics as a second act to their lives.

2:48:04Whereas this guy, meaning the Pierre guy, has always been in politics. And so for that reason alone, I would prefer someone to be coming in from the outside.

2:48:19But moving in a good direction in terms of people's ability to express themselves. Indeed. Yeah, it seems very, very, very much a thing that's in danger up there. Yeah. It's weird. Yeah. Well, have you, what, what has, has Jordan been a support, I think he's a supporter of his, right? Have you? Yeah, Jordan is a supporter of his. Yeah. I've watched him interviews with him. Well, there is another guy who broke from the conservative party named Maxim Bernier, who started a new party called the, I don't know what the people, PPC or something, I kind of remember what it is. But it's very, very hard to get it off the ground.

2:48:58So I don't even think they got one person to sit in the parliament. Despite the fact that many of his positions, we both probably, you and I, would agree with, but it's just very hard to introduce a new party. Yeah. So it's kind of, it's kind of how it is in America as well. Yeah, exactly. Like Cornell West just branched off and he's in another party right now, right? Is that right? Party is he in? Cornell West left the Democrats to run for president under another party. Yeah. As an independent or what is the green party? The green party. Yeah. So that's interesting because there's a lot of people that are Cornell West supporters that they're thinking would ordinarily vote for the Democrat, whoever the Democrat is.

2:49:40Like there's blue no matter who people. Of course. There's a certain percentage in this country. And there's many of those who might look at Cornell West and go, you know what? I'm more aligned with what he's saying. Right. And they might vote for him and it might, you know, sway votes in one way or another. They were very worried about that. Sort of like what Ross Perot did. I was just going to say exactly that. Yeah. Ross Perot was like conservative. Yeah. But also 92. That's right. It was when Clinton got office because they thought, you know, Ross Perot was like he was saying he took out ads.

2:50:16So this is what people don't understand. There was no way to get your word out back then. It's so hard to imagine in this day of YouTube and the web. If you grew up with it, this is going to sound so alien to you. But no one really understood how the IRS system worked or and Ross Perot was so wealthy that he bought an hour of TV time. Yeah. So instead of like whatever would normally be on whatever channel he did it, he literally bought the, how much is a cost? How about a whole fucking thing? He was a Texas crazy billionaire dude and little dude. Little dude. Little dude. I'm not going to be hard.

2:50:57Now fuck you up. And he just didn't tolerate anybody's bullshit. And this guy laid out. I forget what exactly he talked about. But he laid it out of the way with charts and explaining to people. Are you getting fucked? And I remember the conversations that I would have that people I was working with back then were also around like, do you fucking watch that shit? Like what is this? Is that is all true? Then people start researching it and buying books and you got to read this book and like, what is this? And a lot of people wanted him to win. And they thought like, yeah, let's have something different.

2:51:31Like someone who understands how to run a fucking business. So no one understands all the waste and corruption and all the evil bullshit that's going on behind the scenes. Come on, get in there Ross. And that's probably how Bill Clinton got elected. That's right. Because he split the public and yeah, most of the people that were for Ross Perot were like, you know, fairly conservative minded people who wanted no nonsense. There's no nonsense. Texas billionaire comes along, explains everything. He's been very financially, you know, successful. Are you ready to make a prediction for the 2024 election?

2:52:03I don't, I mean, here's my prediction. I don't think Biden runs. Okay. I think I don't know what's going on with all this stuff. Yeah, and with the, the, the, the evidence of corruption, how valid it is. I see all these articles about all these conversations that they had and the money that was being transferred back and forth. I'm thinking it's pretty valid. It's, it seems real valid. But it also seems like if this is all coming out, like that, what a good way to remove a president that seems mentally compromised. Yeah. Because it seems like if you were in the Democratic party and you thought, like, listen, there's a certain amount of people that are going to vote blue, no matter who, right?

2:52:45We, we need to need a better representation. Because you, you could not have Kamala Harris. She would not win. People would be very, very reluctant to vote for her for president. I think after just listening to her talk for the last three years, like what? And so who else? And they would have to be a reason for that. Who else? So she would have to step down. It's California and Justin Trudeau. It's Gavin Newsom. The problem is he did such a bad job with California. It's so, they're so vulnerable. Like he, he does spit out some good propaganda. He just starts talking about him very high on California and all the fucking companies that have come from this and all the money is generated.

2:53:23All the intellectuals and all the, yeah, but you got to know the real stats of like, how many of them feel stuck? Because if you ask people on the street in California, I think the number was four out of 10 people they surveyed are thinking about moving out of California. Which is most people don't have the ability to up and move. Yeah. I was very fortunate when all the shit was going down in California in whatever it was, May of 2020 when I first started thinking about moving. Yeah. I was like, this ain't going in a good direction. And I fucking smell chaos. And I got out early. But if you don't get out early and you don't have the ability to get out early, like you don't have the financial ability, maybe your parents live there, maybe you're taking care of someone, maybe your job depends on you staying there.

2:54:08It's a good job. You're fucked. Yeah. And that's a lot of people. I wasn't fucked. So I got out. And I don't like where it's going. Because I don't with with letting people out of jail and all this this craziness about no bail, like letting people out the arrest them when they commit a crime and put them right back on the street, no bail, no cash bail. It's not a felony if it's under $950. All that stuff is crazy. When you go to CVS, you see like what it looks like at these stores in San Francisco, it's my mind. Fucking madness. There's so many businesses that are closing down. They don't want to be a part of it anymore.

2:54:47They're getting out of these places because they're like, this is fucked and it ain't getting better. And that's what I don't like. I don't like when I don't see any course correction. I don't see any readjustment. I don't see anything like, hey, we need to take care of just enfranchised people. But we also need to make our streets safe and we have to stop crime. Okay. So we need to figure out a way to, you know, have these things, you know, mutually beneficial to everybody. Sure. And there's no none of that. There's like more ridiculous laws, more lacks on crime, more money for the homeless people, given free drug, given needles, they need clean needles.

2:55:21Like what? Yeah, well, I was out of camp out anywhere. I was asking you offline when we were on the show. If you regret moving here and what you said was you even love it more here than you did last year when we said I love it. Yeah, Texas. Texas is great. And Austin is particularly great because it's a progressive minded city that's surrounded by red states. Right. Like there's a t -shirt that says, keep Austin weird and surrounded. Something about being surrounded by the rest of like the real fucking Texas Texas people. Like even the progressives here are more reasonable. The like whatever the chart is, like where the middle is, like there's so many people that you would even think of as conservative or you think of as progressive because they're socially progressive or conservative.

2:56:07But they're kind of more in the middle in terms of the way California was. California was like radical leftism and then like if you were conservative, you had to hide it or you're a Nazi or you live in Orange County. You know, there's like certain places where the conservatives thrived. And that was fine. But the overwhelming amount of people who are in the big urban areas, like specifically San Francisco and Los Angeles, they're in the fucking fog of it. They're in the fog of it. They believe all sorts of wacky shit. And they were the first persons that were like happy that we were locking down.

2:56:47The first person's happy. There was a mass mandate and a vaccine mandate and they were happy to go along with it all. I'm going to, I don't know if you've heard of the Commonwealth Club, which is this big, she -she event to talk about this book. It's in San Francisco. So maybe I need to be wearing a hazmat suit. Yeah, you need to wear something like N95. That deal. That's right. The poop smell. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It's a, I don't know how you fix that. That's the thing. I don't think we've ever seen a city fall apart like we've seen Los Angeles and San Francisco fall apart and then have it be brought back.

2:57:22I mean, it can be done clearly. But how and how much time? So you think it's a death spiral? That's it. I'm worried that it's a death. But I'm worried that it's going to turn worse. Like, you could have never imagined when I used to go to San Francisco in the 90s and to do standup all the time. I would at the original cap city, which is this cool little club that's seated like 150 people. It was great. You could walk around the city and cool places to eat and cool bars to go to. It was fucking lovely city filled with culture and artists and interesting people and smart people. It's like where the smart people were.

2:57:57Like not the people that were interested in show business and the the method pursuit of startup. Those are the people up there. There were the tech people, the artists and the musicians and so much cool shit came from San Francisco. Amazing food, the restaurants, just like the, just to walk around the streets. People were cool. And now it's a hellhole. Yeah. It's the same place just 30 years later. It's a fucking hellhole. How? Ideologies have consequences? Well, San Francisco is a really good documenting. Yeah. Michael Schellenberger is good on the show. He's amazing. He's amazing. And Michael Schellenberger who used to, you know, used to be like a hardcore progressive.

2:58:38So he understands the mentality behind it and the sentiment behind it. He's like a super sweet kind guy. He's a lovely guy. And his book is amazing because it really documents and it's about how progressives are in cities. And it uses San Francisco as an amazing example of it. And it's unfortunate because I think these people all have the right intentions. They are a lot of them at least do. They have good intentions. They have this, they think this ideology is a kinder, more inclusive, more gentle, but the consequences of the way they're enacting laws and allowing people to ruin everything around them.

2:59:12Like that is real financial consequences. Yeah. And in the parasitic mind, I actually talk about the fact that all of those parasitic ideas start with a noble goal. And then in the pursuit of that noble goal, things go around. So around. But how do you turn that around? Like who could be elected to mayor of San Francisco that could turn that around? And how would it even be tolerated and do you even have the resources? Well, it's hard when you have a super majority like you do in California. It's also hard when you have like it's very like it takes a long time to build a building. Yeah, it's really easy to light on on fire.

2:59:52Yeah. It takes just a few minutes. Yeah. Just throw gasoline on, throw it like step away. That fucking building is gone. And the rebuild is quite difficult. And when you have a city that's just overwhelmed with homelessness and crime and chaos, do you see that no? Yeah. I don't know the story behind this other than the fact that it was a stolen car. But it is wild footage of this car going off the side of like a very steep hill in San Francisco. Watch this. So here comes the car. Stolen car.

3:00:38Watch this. This is wild. So look to the upper left hand side. That's where it's going to come from.

3:00:49Oh, this isn't the video. This is a long ass video. Oh, no, no. Okay. They're joy riding. What are they doing? It seems like it. Here's. Oh.

3:01:06Oh, sorry. They jumped out of the car before this happened or they're in the car. As the video continues, people try to help them get out of the car and they sort of all get out of the car and then at least two of them run away. Oh, my God. Our store is skip ahead. So a few people are now out of the car. They're climbing out here. Oh, my goodness.

3:01:31And then you can see them climbing the stairs. Is that lady say I love you? Well, yeah, there's something going on. I'm very confusing. It's on on Twitter last night. Wow. Wow. Is that a person that was in the car? I believe so. So she's saying I love you. It's I don't know who's talking. I love you, but I'm getting the fuck out of Dodge. Is that what she's saying? Could be. Is she one of the people that opened the door? It's hard to get in. It's hard to say who's here. Back it up a little so we could see. We're we're going to investigate journalists. I don't know.

3:02:04I'm sorry. I love you. So someone's hurt bad. Yeah. Yeah. Yikes. Oh, so that's the person driving the car. You see the position that she's in? That's the front of the car. Yeah. So that's the driver. No, that's not the case because then the.

3:02:22Oh, I don't know. Is that the front seat?

3:02:30Which one? That's the front. No. So that's the back. The front and the. It does the front is like. Oh, my god. This is so crazy. Look at how it goes down. Boom. I'm looking forward to my. Yeah. So that was some of the back seat. That was in the back passenger seat. Of course. Look how the doors open. Dura. But whatever the fuck I have in that lady's like, I'm out, bitch. Love you. I got to go. You got fucked up. Yikes. We've covered a lot of ground. It's a San Francisco car jacket. Wish me luck. They they checked car jacket that car and drove it over a cliff. There's a video that going over the cliff too.

3:03:15There's a video of it going straight down the street and going through a fence.

3:03:22I'm sure he stopped them from actually stealing it and it like the car flipped over. They got out and shot at them. Oh, my god. It's not in San Francisco. Where was that? Columbus. Yeah. Goddamn. I'm wild there too. That's a gritty, gritty town, right? I love Columbus. Is that right? Yeah. It's fun. Fun plays do stand up. Fun people. Blue collar. Yeah. Yeah. Fun. Fun people. But you know, like all places took a hit during the pandemic. Yeah. All places took a hit economically. Yeah. They took a hit with violence and crime and you know, and the mostly peaceful protests. That's right. Mostly peaceful protests is a great meme.

3:04:02Yeah. Yeah. That's that was on CNN, right? I think it was on a lot of places. I think a lot of places. The original one was he saying that and this stuff. With the fire behind the exact mostly peaceful protests. Yeah. That's the thing. That is the truth though. But if you do light some buildings on fire and most of the people are not lighting buildings on fire, that's mostly peaceful. Well, that's one of the things, by the way, that I think Canada that we have better than you guys and that we are less violent. Like they said with hockey. Yes. Fuck people up in hockey. There is no place in Montreal that you truly would be afraid to take a wrong turn.

3:04:41Oh, well, that's nice. It's because the cold weeds out the week. They're called weeds out the week up there. I remember coming from Boston thinking how fucking cold it is up there. Like, whoa, this is another level, another level. Like walking from my hotel to get something to eat. I remember we walked a couple blocks from like this is an adventure. Yeah. An adventure and not dying when you're walking to a restaurant. Like holy shit. Minus 40. Yeah. And then when you get inside, everybody's like holy shit. Holy shit. But there's a warmth and hospitality to like going to a place when it's warm inside and it's cold outside.

3:05:19And everyone's very appreciative of the warmth. Yeah. It's very different than going into a cool place when it's hot out. Right. Going to a cool place when it's hot out. It's nice. It's nice. But it doesn't feel the same nice as like you could fucking die out there. That's right. I've been outing as a whole. By the way, when I was 12, they had stopped school. I think the only time ever because it was too cold. Usually it's because it's too snowy and it was I think minus 70 with windshield, and I decided to walk out just to say, as I am now, that I did it. And I lasted maybe 10 meters. It was your, my face was burning.

3:05:57So basically, it was like playing football in the NFL. You lasted about. What a nice way to bring it back. You would walk out with a football. God, it gets so cold. But I mean, I don't think it's necessary to develop character, but I certainly think it helps. Yeah. I felt that about Boston. Like I love the people that live there. Because there's a certain like fucking roughness to those people. They've dealt with some shit. You know, they know how to deal with some shit. What is your next visit to Montreal? I don't know. I've been a candidate since all this shit went down until I couldn't cross the border if I was unvaccinated.

3:06:32Oh, right. That's true. And I'm like, you guys are out of your fucking mind. Yeah. I mean, it still was in America until May. You couldn't come here. That's true. It's only when you suddenly lived here. They were like the last country to hang in there with that. Yeah. Ugh. Weird. Just weird to be going through this. Well, I remember the last time that, at least that I knew that you came, you had kindly invited me to one of your stand -up at the Corona Theater across from Joe Beef. We're giving a lot of plugs. I think Joe Beef is amazing. He's your friend, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, both of those guys. They're incredible restaurants.

3:07:09It is. Yeah. I think it was voted in the top restaurants in Canada. Yeah. Should be. Montreal is just an amazing place for culture in general. It's just a beautiful city. It's a great, old architecture. It's a lot of money. I'm feeling better by the second of our being there. If you're going to live in Canada, it's a great spot. It is. It's a great spot. Might be let it hold that cold. Much less antiseptic than Toronto, that's for sure. Yeah, it's just, you know, those kind of policies that are in place that stop the freedom of expression, they're troubling. Because I always thought of Canada as being like this really open -minded, liberal place.

3:07:48And incidentally, there's a unique dynamic in Quebec that's different from Canada, which is the protection of the French language. And in doing that, you do end up also infringing on people's intrinsic rights. So I'm fully francophone. So it's not as though I've got a, I'm perfectly happy to speak French. But you shouldn't have to mandate that by instituting draconian laws. So you get all sorts of immigrants that come to Quebec that you otherwise should want to have in Quebec. But because they can't pass some French test, they end up leaving. Is that really good for society? But according to the Quebec government, it is.

3:08:24Because Quebec is a distinct society that's surrounded by evil, you know, English language. And we need to do whatever we can to protect it. In my view, you shouldn't. It is fascinating that there's a segment of your country that speaks primarily French. Amazing, isn't it? And by the way, as you leave Montreal, it becomes almost exclusively French. Really? And in Montreal, historically, the more you went west, it was more English, the more you went east, the more French it was. But outside of Montreal, 20, 25, 30, 40 minutes, you could pretty much only speak French. And, you know, wow. Yeah. So kind of cool, cool to visit.

3:09:07Kind of cool. Come and see us. We'll miss you up there. Well, you know, you got to stay there and keep it down. Hold it down. You're one of the few reasonable voices from up there. It's like yelling from the rooftops. Well, thank you. And you've been at the front lines for a long time, my friend. You were sounding out about the dangers of all this stuff. Before anybody really recognized where it could go. Oh, thank you for saying that. You and Jordan, you know, I mean, you were even before him. Some of the criticisms that you experienced back then, I thought, like, wow, this is where the people have this perspective.

3:09:41Like, don't they see that he's making so much sense? Yeah. He's so right. I mean, everything you're saying is so rational and reasonable and well thought out. Like, oh, he's a Nazi. Anyway, he's a Jewish Nazi who escaped Lebanon. What are you talking about? Right. It's weird where people try to categorize people and say, and you in a lot of the ways because of who you are and because of your academic background, because you're so articulate and the books you've written, you've managed to like, avoid a lot of the pitfalls that some other people have fallen into because you're so undeniably respected as an intellectual.

3:10:16And when you're talking about these things, you're talking about them from a place of like, you have a deep understanding of the literature, you have deep understanding of like where these problems come from. Like, what's the source of them? How do they arise and how do they permeate through society in this sort of, as you say, parasitic way? Thank you. Those are very sweet words I really appreciate. Yeah. Well, you're a very important voice, my friend. You really are. And I think that your work has been instrumental for helping other people form arguments against some of this nonsense, too, because you sort of laid it out where it could repeat what you've said.

3:10:49And like, you know, wait a minute, you know, to get out of the, there's got some points here. Thank you, too. I really appreciate it, brother. And your new book is available right now as of today. Unfortunately, these fucking knuckleheads didn't allow you to do the audio, but you can read the book and hear it in your sweet and sultry voice. The sad truth about happiness, eight secrets to leading the good life available now. Thank you so much, Joe. Thank you. Let's do it again anytime. Anytime. Go to the good. All right. Love you. Thank you. Bye.