#2026 - Peter Berg

29:51And the lawyers call it and they're like, are you fucking kidding us? So we just shut the door. Oh wow. And we go, I think it's the episode three of the touch. But he took a job. I mean, like I was saying earlier, I'm not big on, you know, conspiracies. Maybe, maybe not. I heard you were talking about, you know, Kennedy being potentially killed by the CIA. I don't know. I don't know who killed him. But I do think that it wasn't just Lee Harvey Oswald. What couldn't have been. I think I think Lee Harvey Oswald was involved too. That's part of the problem with people's argument about this. They're like, you know, Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.

30:31There's no evidence that he acted alone. There's a lot of evidence that he was involved. When I was in fifth grade, we had a, uh, uh, his social studies teacher. This episode is brought to you by Buffalo Trace Distillery. Actually have some Buffalo Trace cigars here. They just sent me one of the world's most award -winning distilleries that's been making whiskey the same way for more than 200 years. Made as a tribute to the rugged, free spirited pioneers who blaze their own trail to new frontiers. It embodies the perfectly untamed spirit of independence. It defines what an award -winning bourbon should be.

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32:07Who was absolutely like beyond, before Oliver Stone in the film, this teacher was obsessed with the Super Bowl at Theory. The Magic Bullet there. You know, went through Connelly's shoulder, through his knee, bounced out of his knees, and hit Kennedy first. Okay, hit Kennedy first and then it was Connelly, right? Connelly's shoulder, hand, knees, and like, and we're like, we're just fifth grade kids trying to learn about George Washington or whatever. And she's like, do you understand the ballistics don't line up? And it's all she would talk about. So we'd come home and to all we would talk about with our parents and our parents would like call the school and be like, like, is this woman like this teacher?

32:53Like what's she insane? And like, why are my kids only learning about the Magic Bullet? The thing is the ballistics are not the big issue, because what people don't understand about ballistics is not a linear line between impact and exit. It hits things. You hit bones and they deviate. Right, right. People shoot people and the bullet comes out the front. It's wild things, especially when you're at 22. But when the problem with that bullet is first of all, they found it on the gurney. Like how fucking convenient. Second of all, I believe there's more fragments, metal fragments that were in Connelly's wrist than are missing from this bullet.

33:33And the bullet looks pristine. It looks like a bullet that you shot through water. Anybody that shoots things with guns knows that when bullets hit bones, they distort. That's part of, unless it's a steel -jacketed, you know, like armor piercing round, that's what it looked like. I mean, that's just bonkers. That was like, what it looked like after it went through Kennedy and Connelly. It's bonkers. It's bonkers to believe that. The idea that he wasn't, that Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't involved though. I don't buy that either. I think they set him up. I think for sure he knew what was going on. He seemed to have been some sort of an operative.

34:14He went back and forth to Russia. But that conspiracy, it's like, I don't know. We're talking 1963. I don't, you know, but there's conspiracies today that are real. And this Sackler family is one of the best examples of one that was enormously successful and worked on multiple levels. And this story about getting this regulator to approve it by putting him in a hotel for two weeks. How the fuck is that not illegal? Like, how is that not illegal? I mean, they handle themselves. He's spent a year still working for the FDA before he came and worked for Purdue. And it's pretty intense. I just saw a video that, I don't know whether it was TMZ or somebody found the guy, the Curtis Wright, up in, I think he's in New Hampshire just like two days ago.

35:11And they like, they kind of went after him. Oh, wow. And I was like, they're like, what do you say? What do you have to say about the show? What do you think? And he got in his car and wouldn't talk. And then they just interviewed the local police chief for this town in New Hampshire, who said that, well, we had no idea that this guy's living in our town. I want to take him on a tour of our morgue and our cemeteries and show him, show him. I think you'll find Curtis Wright if you look him up. That is the definition of living in hell. And that's, you know, I think that people have asked, you know, like, what is justice?

35:57What does justice even look like in a situation like this? Like, if you're... That's the guy. And the red, yeah, so that's who plays him. And that was just... That's the actual gentleman who approved it. That's the guy who went and worked for... So he just moved to a remote town? Yeah. He moved to a remote town and after I showed him out, I think... Is that a gun on his hip? I don't think so. I tried to... What is that? It's like a flashlight. He's got like a rig. He's got his phone in the front. Yeah, he's got a whole vibe going on. And a passport filled with trips to Thailand probably. Yeah, right.

36:38But, you know, like, that's... That's the face of a big part of the issue. That, you know, this guy was a bureaucrat working for the FDA, living his life and, you know, the East Coast. Someone came along and said, hey, you want to get out of here? You're making 50 grand. And they say that you believe this to be less addictive. That'll get us the approval. And you're good. We're going to make you good. And here we are. And that revolving door still exists today. The people go from the FDA right into pharmaceutical companies today. For sure. And it's so weird that that's legal. And another big part of the game are these medical journals, right?

37:25Like, there's something called the New England Journal of Medicine. And like, a big thing is for a doctor in some of these... And these journals are owned by the pharmaceutical companies, right? So think about it. You own Purdue Pharma. You either buy or control medical journals that write favorable articles about your products, about your drugs. So in the case of oxycontin, there was a small... Like, almost a letter to the editor written about oxycontin being less than one of the... One percent addictive. In a medical journal, which sounds like official and like, okay, well, damn it, Joe is in a medical journal.

38:08Right. Let's go. But these are controlled by drug companies. And they're not legit. It's fake news. It's real fake news. And it's all part of the ecosystem of selling drugs. And these are the big drug dealers. Like, we talk about Chappell or Pablo Escobar, you know, Eric Newman, my buddy who was the exact producer on this, he produced Narcos. And he went deep on Pablo Escobar. And he's like, when he first said you want to do this, he's like, these are the real drug dealers. Like, these are the drug dealers putting up the real numbers. And they're the drug dealers who put their name on museums, like the Metropolitan, the Guggenheim, the Louvre in Paris.

38:53Because these are like, these are the big time, hard -hit and drug dealers. They're the real gangsters. Oh, they're fucking gangsters, man. And - It's such a gangster move to put your name everywhere too. Uh -huh. Especially on, like, education institutions. Have you ever been - Museums? In the Metropolitan Museum of Arts Temple of Dender, the giant class. It's the biggest exhibit in the Met in New York City. And that was the Sackler Wing. And I would go in there when we were making the show. And I would - It was this giant. It's on the north side of the Met. It's a massive wing. And you go in there and it says the Sackler Wing.

39:36And you go in there and there's parents running around with their kids. The last time I saw a guy get on his hands and knees and propose. And it's just this happy, joyful room built on oxy cotton. And two, three months ago, they took the name down. They finally took the name down. Finally, yeah. They've found these years. Yeah, so they've taken - And this is the thing that like, what Arthur Sackler cared more about than anything, which is like, the same as Alfred Nobel, right? You know that Alfred Nobel made dynamite. That's how he made his money. It was a fascinating story. That Nobel was the inventor of dynamite.

40:16It's almost like an Oppenheimer situation. I didn't know that. And the story is that someone ran a false obituary. They thought he died and they called him a merchant of death. The great merchant of death is gone. It's guy Nobel who invented dynamite. And at that moment he realized, fuck, this is how I'm going to be known. This is going to be my legacy, the merchant of death. He took a huge chunk of his fortune and started the Nobel Peace Prize. So when you hear the name Nobel, you don't think about dynamite, right? He invented dynamite hand grenades and how it sort of rounds and munitions. That was all Nobel.

40:56Now you just say, oh my god, Barack Obama just won the Dalai Lama just won the Martin Luther King. And this guy made it off a dynamite. That's insane. And so the Sacklers were like the same thing. Wait a minute. We know what we're selling here. We know where our money is coming from. Look at that. Merition of death to pioneer of Nobel Prize. That Nobel Peace Prize was a big bait and switch. So nobody thought about the fact that this dude, you know, go look at the body kind of Vietnam. And this is interesting. He said many saw his invention. Alfred thought would end all wars just like Oppenheimer.

41:35As a highly lethal product when Alfred's brother, Ludwig died in 1888 a French newspaper accidentally published no bitchway for Alfred that referred to him as the merchant of death. Wow. Right. Did you know that? I did not. That's a mind blower. But it makes sense because that's how evil fucks are. They'll try to cover up what they're doing with humanitarian work. 100%. And that's what the Sacklers did. Very well. Like, okay. We're selling heroin and pills. Hold the word like 300 or up to 300 ,000 deaths and a lot of wrecked families. Let's buy some art. Let's put let's donate to multiple medical schools.

42:19Get our names on medical schools all around the country. Let's throw a name up on the Metropolitan Museum of Art, the Guggenheim, the Louvre in Paris. They were putting their names on anything they could. There was a bridge in London that one of the Sacklers, the Sackler Bridge. Like, just anything to take your eye off the ball. And so to me, you know, whether they end up paying $6 billion or $16 billion. Yeah, that's real. That's deserve money. But I think the bigger issue is the name, the evisceration of the name is in deep process right now. As it should be. Yes. And I just wonder how they're going to get away without paying criminal penalties.

43:09I mean, not just criminal penalties, but going to jail. It's hard to go to jail today if you've got a lot of money, Joe. That's insane. Yeah. I mean, it's a jet. I can't imagine the Sackler is going to jail. But I think worse than jail is the fact that the name is now done. Yeah. And that hurts because this was a family that was all about the legacy. That's over. This guy that approved it, what was his name again? Curtis, right. They found. Imagine being that guy. Because you didn't even get rich. You got kind of rich. You made a lot of money, but you didn't get like billionaire. I can just go hot on an island, Rich.

43:57You're in a small town in New Hampshire. And then they find you when this series comes out. Yeah. I don't. I never know, like, someone's morality. I always have trouble understanding how different people process morality. And what it would mean for, because you have to assume a guy like that, after 25 years, has figured out a way of justifying to himself what he's done. We all do that. We justify our behaviors. We don't engage in behavior like that. But whatever we do, we justify it. And I wonder how much it hurts. We tried to contact Richard Sackler several times during the early, he used to live here in Austin.

44:47And we couldn't find him. He has a house here in Austin still. But how it feels. There's never been a moment where there's been any kind of accountability. Where Richard Sackler comes out and says, OK, OK, look, I am really fucking sorry. Let's just start with that. I am so sorry that this has happened. I am so sorry for the pain. And I can't undo it. But I want to first acknowledge that I'm sorry. I made some really bad decisions. I thought I was helping people. I wasn't. There was never been, and I think that's where the anger comes from. So much of it. Do you think that that's because of legal advice?

45:34I mean, even if he was going to, I don't think you could admit that you're sorry. And the situation is horrendous as this because I think it opens up the floodgates for further scrutiny. I guess. I just, yes, you're probably right. But I guess I feel like you've already, you've lost. You've lost. You've lost so much. And you've lost so much money. Your reputation is destroyed. And if you look at, there's like a 12 hour disposition of Sackler that we recreate some of in the show. And the guy is just a fucking ice brick. Like he offers nothing. There's no humanity there. And obviously his lawyers were advising him.

46:24Yes. And he can't say a lot. But you want to. You want to believe that everyone's human. Yeah. Like you want to see some version of like, okay, like can I understand how it happened? Do I think they set out to have all this death and destruction? I'm going to say no. I don't know. But I have to believe that they didn't intend for that. Then the ball got rolling. Then the money started coming in. Then it all got completely out of control. And by the time they realized how bad it was, they couldn't apologize, obviously. And they were they were boxed in by legal advice. But somewhere you're looking for some indication of like, look, man, I am so sorry your son died.

47:10Not not. I'm sorry your son died, but your son was a drug addict. An instant deflection, right? That's just like, that's rough. That's rough. It is rough. It's just, again, it's hard to understand the way certain people function. They're morals. Like what are their ethics? And are they sociopaths? Because there's a lot of people that are genuine sociopaths. They do not care for other people hurt. They do not care about people's feelings. They only care about themselves. There are people like that out there in the world, they're amongst us. And I don't know what the number is. I think it's like one percent or something like that.

47:49Is it something like that? Or is that gets a frenix? I think sociopaths is probably even higher than that. And some of it is got to be because how you were treated when you were young. Some of it is got to be nurture. But I wonder how much of his nature. I wonder how much of your wires are crossed wrong. And you just don't give a fuck about other people. It's totally possible. I mean, you look at Jeffrey Dahmer. His parents seem to be normal. They didn't seem to abuse him. You didn't have some horrific childhood where he was tortured. It's like what makes a person like that? I don't fucking know, man.

48:24But when you see it, it's so confusing. Like that's the kind of guy in your show. When you're watching him say what he says, how does a person like this exist? And obviously Dahmer is a fairly extreme example of this. But is it because he only killed six or seven people? Right. I just mean that, but he really put his hands on those people. Right? So the idea of a serial killer is such an extreme, real but extreme version of that. Right. But how many times do you kind of come across someone who's maybe not killing people or engaged in a lethal career? But you're like, whoa, that dude doesn't seem reachable.

49:07I don't know what's going on there. Like I'm trying to have some sort of human connection. But this dude is just like, you know, and I've met many people generally who organize their lives strictly around making money. Like money is the prize, money is the art. And I kind of, I'm like, hello. Yeah. Like it's a very weird non -human pursuit. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, I'm about making money and my morality and sense of humanity is just not very readily apparent. And I think that that's like, on a spectrum, not necessarily that far removed from something that could turn into a Jeffrey Dahmer. Yeah, it's not that far.

50:00I mean, do you ever like study Putin and try and figure out what's going on in that guy's head? I could only imagine. Like, I think it was Bush who said, you know, he'd just come back from meeting Putin years ago. And he said, you know, I looked into his eyes and I didn't see a soul. And I remember that guy was younger when he said that, but it chilled me. Like, in Bush, look, this is Bush too. And he's like, I looked into his eyes and I didn't see a soul. Pull that quote up. That's crazy. I hope I said it right. Oh, the opposite. I looked at man in the eye. I found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy.

50:38I said, I was able to get a sense of his soul. Yeah, well, he got it or he didn't get it, right? I was so glad we searched that. Yeah, I am too. Because I was confused. I could have swore it was the opposite. Well, okay, I was wrong about that one. But then he said he regretted it because he was wrong. He thought he saw a soul, but he didn't. He said that later. Well, that's what he said, right? He said he regret. Pull it back up. I think he said, I thought I saw a soul. And 95, but later regretted saying this. Yes. How about that? Bush later regretted saying this. 95 meant with Putin. So he thought he saw a soul gel, but he didn't.

51:18That's what he came to believe. What does he say later? I don't know. Did he try? He just said he's regretted it. According to. I was not able to get a sense of his soul. I did not see the real length. I was ambition when I looked into Putin. Look, Putin in the eye 27 years ago. But then I was not able to get a sense of his soul. Okay. I think that's the line that stuck with me. I was not able to get a sense of his soul. Well, he doesn't speak Russian either. Did you see just talking to someone in two different languages? Have you been to Moscow? No, I haven't. The architecture is insane. I loved it.

51:56I've been there twice. Russia is incredible. I loved it. One of the many things that's such about this, I think is like Moscow is just out now for such a long time. For a long time. I've gone there twice for film promotions. And the people were so nice. The food was fantastic. The architecture. I'm in walking through Red Square. I loved it. I loved the culture. And it's too bad. Yeah, it is too bad. I hope one day to be able to go back there. Yeah. It's amazing how many great chess players, how many great martial artists, how many great authors. Russia's produced some incredible things. Incredible works.

52:46And the architecture in Russia is so different than anywhere else. The Moscow architecture is so beautiful. And so unique, uniquely Russian. It's really fantastic stuff. I mean, but it's like the political aspect of it. It's so terrifying, man, that we're this close to a nuclear war. God damn it scares the fuck out of me. And I always wonder if the same sort of decision -making apparatus that exists and pushing through OxyContin also exists in pushing through wars. Also exists in pushing through just things that like morally we would all say these are terrible, terrible things. We should all agree on this and to be able to convince large groups of people to engage in them because you're the leader.

53:37I mean, something that I've been looking at for a while now is trying to get into the weapons contracting business. Meaning like, you know, what the big ones, the McDonald Douglas, the Raytheans, the Boeing, the companies that are making so much money. I was in Pearl Harbor working on a film and they had the nuclear submarines coming in and out of the harbor. I've ever seen one, these tried in submarines. And they're amazing. Like, you know, it never ceases to amaze me that like many of our greatest creative accomplishments are these weapon systems, right? Like, you've been on an aircraft carrier before, or you know, witnessed the awe and spectacle of those planes.

54:28Right? There's credible. And we were filming on a carrier in Pearl Harbor and the subs kept coming in and out. They're these massive sleek. They look like sharks in their cruising slow and they docked. I see one, Jim. And we had handlers from Pearl Harbor there. And I'm like, you know, could I, could I tour one? And they were, they went to the Admiral of the base and they were coming back, yes, you can tour one. So they took me to a nuclear submarine that was tied up at Pearl Harbor and they took me on it. And I go and I've got these, you know, public affairs people in the captain, the sub and show me around the sub and you walk.

55:10And they're just awesome. And they're massive. And they're full of people. And it's just all like the most like technical high -tech shit you've ever seen in your life. And they're like, this is the navigation room. This is where we control the sub. And they're showing me the equipment. And I'm like, how much does this equipment cost? And they're like, well, we can't, we can't really tell you. But it's, you know, 50, 100, between 50 and $100 million. For this area of the sub. And then they take me past the nuclear reactors. Well, there's armed guys guarding the nuclear reactors. Because they're propelled by nukes.

55:42And I'm like, well, how much does it, we can't tell you? Right? And then they get you into the torpedo rooms. Where there's these massive torpedoes, the dozens of them. And you're like, how much do these things cost? I mean, we can't tell you. We can't tell you. Then they take you to the fucking missile room. Oh, my God. Where there's 10 missiles. Okay. Missiles that have nuclear warheads that can go on it, right? Sir, how much do these costs? Well, we can't tell you that. Then you start looking up the prices, right? And you figure for a nuclear missile with the warhead and the guidance system and all the propulsion, you've got to be looking at at least 30 million.

56:26That's my guess. For one, what do you think a nuclear missile armed and loaded costs? I have no idea. I'm going to say 30 million minimum. You're guessing? I'm guessing. Yes. But I think I'm under -guessing, probably. And I've done some calculations. Oh, there was a question about this recently because the missiles that they shot at, the Chinese air balloon, the blue, the spy balloon, they missed one of them. And then there was a talk of how much that missed cost. Right. I missed cost a lot of money. And so, but I'm on this sub, and I'm looking at what appears to be what that was 400K? The ones that are out of the plane.

57:02Maybe it's not. But that wasn't a nuke. That wasn't. I'm talking about a nuke of missile. A nuclear missile fired from a submarine. Right. So here's, so now, I'm on this stand. I'm counting these missiles, 10 missiles. Right. That I can see. So I'm doing, trying to do the math. The 30, 300, 300. I'd say it's 500 million dollars worth of missiles. On one sub, right? I'm looking. I can see eight subs docked in Pearl Harbor. Right. So now I'm like, there's 10 times eight. Right. There's 80 missiles in my visual at 500 and missile. And these are just the subs I can see. Right. So I'm thinking, well, wait a minute.

57:44If one of these subs fires one missile. Right. We're fucked. We're done. The world is probably over. Right. Yeah. One missile goes. We've got at least 80 of them that I can see. How many people are making money off of this game? Right. Where's the money going that we have to keep putting, loading these submarines with nuclear missiles, one of which is going to get it done. That's not then including all the missiles that are in the silos. Right. All the missiles that are flying 24 -7 in planes and bombs. Like we are loaded up. Good. Right. We got enough. Yet we keep making more. And this is, you know, like Purdue, Pharma, these companies.

58:32And now it's all turning into like AI -controlled drones. Right. That are going to be like the new forefront of the weapon systems. Where all the money is going to go. But I was thinking like, what would happen if you took two of these subs and took them offline and built, I don't know, schools? What would happen? Would we threat, would our national security be threatened? I don't know. Would our country be better off? I don't know. With all the money, all the money is going into the military. And that's, I'm support the military. You know, I've done multiple films about our troops. And I understand I've been to Iraq with the seal platoon.

59:17I know what, you know, I've had a front row seat to the reality of what these men and women are going through. This kind of spending, it seems to me to be a bit reckless. Well, at the very least, they're incentivized. They're incentivized to be in conflict. If there's that much money to be made. For sure. The same way Purdue Pharma was incentivized to pretend that it wasn't addictive, even though they knew it was. It's the same kind of thing. Like, there's decisions that get made specifically because of money. That's really scary for us, because we want to think that if we have a leader, we trust someone to be a leader.

1:00:02We have this thought in our head that this is our chief. This is the best warrior. This is the wisest person that's lived along us. And they're the best to govern us. We would never want to believe that someone that he appoints. And that's in that chain involved in running all these people. It's making decisions that will absolutely cost lives and souls. People will be destroyed. But they're making these decisions because of money. Because of money. And it's like the same thing with some of these drugs. It's the same thing with some of the big weapon systems. You know, some of like, if you're the president, right?

1:00:40If you're the next president of the US, and you decide that you want to reduce spending in the military. So say there's a jet program, F -35, or some massive jet program. And it's costing a shitload of money, and you want to try and slow it down. Well, what they do is they build different parts of the aircraft in different states. So there might be 30 states that are all contributing to making one weapon system. So if you try and dismantle it, you've got the government, the representatives from 30 different states saying, you can't do it. We've got a factory that's making the guidance system. We've got a factory that's arm in the ordinance on the missiles.

1:01:25We're doing the landing gear. And the weapons are now part of the economy, and they can't be divorced from it, and the spending just goes on. Isn't there an argument on the other side, though, that we can't allow another country to achieve military superiority over us? And if we stop innovation and stop the flow of money into developing these new jets. That's that we would run the risk of that happening. For sure. And that's what's going on with China right now, right? That we're in an arms race with China. A lot of AI technology involved. We're like, we're now starting to discuss letting AI fly an arm and release weapons on targets that are AI assessed and AI authorized kills.

1:02:14Because China is doing the same thing. And we don't want to be out tech by China. And so we're in an never ending arms race to have the best technology. I get it. Okay, fine. Let's do it. It's just a lot of money. And I can't help but think. Who's making money? Okay. It says, CBO estimates that plans for US nuclear forces as described in the fiscal year 2023 budget and supporting documents would cost 700 and oh my god, 756 billion over the 2023 2032 period. Okay, nine years. 122 billion more than CBO's 2021 estimate for the 2021 to 2030 period. Sorry, guys. We underestimated by 122 billion. So our E61 nuke that's, that put on a lot of planes and stuff.

1:03:12Right. Do you have a price tag on that one? So roughly 28 million. Okay. Wow, you did on. So this is what I'm saying. We have $3000. Jamie, can you have money? Do we have somewhere in the range of three to four thousand? So what's the total number just on that missile? Can you do that multiplication? 30 times 3000. Could you imagine the horror of how many missiles do we have? How many of those? There's something in the range of, I found something that's a bit 3700 news. 20 rounded off to 3500. Imagine 3500 nuclear missiles launching through the, the horrors of that. One of those is 83 Hiroshima bombs.

1:03:53Just two. Just one of them. It's over game over one three Hiroshima bombs. Yes, that's like, this is the issue. Like, whole, yeah, even that one blew up in the sky and these can go underground and make things worse. Oh my god. But those are just air delivered. Yes. He showed that sub, that nuclear sub. Those are, I mean, there's a few. I don't know exactly the one he saw. I was trying to find a good picture from Pearl Harbor of a bunch of subs. It is pretty fucking amazing. They're amazing. They're, they're, they're runs on a nuclear reactor. They're beautiful achievements of engineering and, you know, scale and talent.

1:04:29And like, to be on that thing was awe inspiring. But my god are they expensive. Yeah. Like really expensive. Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, can't get one that does something like that for cheap. But it's just, it is kind of amazing that our biggest accomplishments are in the world of weaponry. And the world of weaponry. And like, other than communication, like cell phones and, and the like and, and wireless internet, that this is crazy, that they develop a nuclear powered underwater weapon that is capable of taking out a country. Yeah, designed really only to deliver nuclear missiles. I mean, how many does this motherfucker carry on it?

1:05:16How many cities can this thing take out? I mean, there's still. And we had, and how many do we have? Like, I've seen, like I said, I saw six of them in Pearl Harbor. Imagine, and in those kids, these kids are looking like 20 years old. Look at a young look. That kid looks like, they could be my friend's son. And they're bottom right with the glasses. Yeah. That is wild. Wild. To be that young, you're holding a machine gun on a nuclear powered tank. Or you're that too, you're the captain. Look at this guy. You're the vice admiral Bill Houston. You run that shit. You run that. Like we talk about power.

1:05:50Like what we think of power. And you know, like, that's a crazy job. Like Dana White has a tough job. That's a job. That's a job. This has to be so nerve -racking for all these people on board. Especially when it goes in the water. When you know you're underwater, like Jesus Christ. I know they work. I mean, but do you remember that there was a Russian one that went down. There was a nuclear sub that went down. And that's where the term can either confirm nor deny. That's when it was, because they had the answer. So they had to have an answer. Does this going on? You guys retrieving a nuclear sub from Russia?

1:06:25It's going to, so because they had an answer, I don't think they have to answer it now. But they had to come up with a phrase. Commuter confirmed or denied. Yeah. What was that about? Which sub was that? I think they allegedly recovered it, which is crazy. So we have the ability to recover a nuclear sub at the bottom of the ocean. What the hell, man? I mean, that's the more time I've spent with the military. When I went, when I was right in Lone Survivor, I got to go to Iraq with the SEAL team and see them operating and see the skill with which they operated. And that's almost a, there's no technology involved there.

1:07:11Like SEALs don't really need this kind of stuff. That's just more like, give me a Jeep, give me some night vision goggles, give me some good intel on where the guy is and I'll deal with it. That was beautiful. That was like the most elite team training and discipline and structure I've ever seen. So on a human level, what I observed with the group like SEALs was such an incredibly advanced form of team behavior. Then when you get into this stuff, if you've ever seen a patchy helicopter up close and seen these pilots for patchy helicopters, we use something known. They're wearing, they're like these helicopters pull up and they're just incredible looking pieces of equipment.

1:07:58And these twenty -year -old kids are flying them and they've got a helmet with a mask and they call it Slaveness ship to the goggles. So they, they, they, they activate the goggles so that wherever they turn, the helicopter turns. And where they're, they've got eye sensors. So where their eyes go, the guns go. Right? So I, you look at it, you kill it. And we're, they're giving us these demonstrations and they're flying them on the set. And I'm like, okay, I've seen the pyramids, I've seen the Notre Dame cathedral in France. I've, I've seen a lot of Van Goghs. They're beautiful. I saw the Mona Lisa.

1:08:36That was great. Seeing this fucking helicopter turning as the guys head turns at the weapon systems, I'm like, who's building cooler shit than this? Like, like, yes, it wins, it wins. There, it is our greatest achievement. All right, these weapons of death. They're incredible. I just like, well, that's what you can make if you have an unlimited budget. And really smart guys like, really smart engineers. Yeah, really smart. And often, Hammer had a hell of a like, that was a great build. Right? That was a great build. But man, it's expensive and it's kind of a bummer when this shit gets used. It's really bad.

1:09:17What do you think about all this UAP UFO stuff? Have you thought about this? Do you think that this is some sort of a government program? Like, they've developed these high speed drones in secrecy? I mean, because that's why prevailing theory. I have trouble understanding it. Like, take the UFO aspect of it, right? Like, yes, there's absolutely zero question on Earth that there's life out in the solar system. It's an infinite solar system. It goes on forever. In general, I'm sorry, infinite universe. Smoke some five MEO and you'll go out there, right? And like, yes, it's out there. The government keeping it secret and being that capable to find it and keep it secret, I don't know.

1:10:09I took mushrooms with my friend, Mike Dragorio, and we tried to get on the area 51 one day. And we drove up there. And like, we just... That's not true. I just did mushrooms thing to do. Oh, yeah, we tried. And we... Like, have you ever gone up there? No, I've not. Because it's this road area 51. It's this highway in the... In the bases over a mountain. But the road goes on forever. And you're driving and we're high as fuck on mushrooms. And we just get up. We're not getting any closer to the mountain. And we're driving and we're driving and we're driving. And suddenly, there's a white van behind us, right?

1:10:42With the light on. And we're like, oh fuck. Okay, good. Like, this is kind of what we thought might happen. And sure enough, guys get out, military dudes with guns. And they're looking at us and like, okay, you guys are on mushrooms, right? They see this. They see this. Turn around. It's a common turn around. It's hilarious. It looks like the mushrooms want any good areas 51. You're not getting on the base. They're like, there's a hotel called the Little Alien. Go down there with everybody else. It's on mushrooms. And you could sit out there all night and have all your theories. And you're turning around.

1:11:15And we're like, Roger that. And we're amazing. So that's so funny that they called it. Yeah, they knew it. Like they just just let's be so common. But these are like, let's take some shrimps and get out area 51. And these guys are not. They weren't nasty or tough. But they're like, yeah, yeah, you're gonna turn around, drink some water, turn around, and go to the Little Alien hotel. You're allowed to get like a certain distance. And then it's illegal. And I believe they had to expand that distance. I want to say it was during the Obama administration. They had to acknowledge the, it might have been before that.

1:11:48They had, it might have been Clinton. They had to acknowledge the existence, or it might have been Bush or other. They had to acknowledge the existence of area 51 in order to expand the forbidden zone. Yeah. Because they had a forbidden zone, but they did not fly over. No fly over. No drive. No drive. You can't hike in. Because people were filming things. John Lear in particular. A lot of people were filming things that set up like very strong telescopes and high speed optics. And they were filming these tests of these things. Whether or not these things for UFOs, or whether it's top secret shit they're working on.

1:12:23Obviously, the stealth bomber came from that program. The Harry or Jump set. Yeah. Which would like verdict remeft and then take off. They made a lot of wild shit that is absolutely from us. But the alleged claims in the most fascinating ones, this guy, Bob Lazar, who claims to have worked at S4, which is one of a site four of area 51. And he was on a program designed to back engineer this recovered disk. It's a fascinating story. Because if he's full of shit, oh my god, what a great story. This guy's pulled the wool over people's eyes for 30 years. Right. Because he told the story in like 1989 was the first time he told it.

1:13:01So it's more than 30 years. But he's also, he has like real knowledge of the area. He has real knowledge of Los Alamos Labs where they tried to say that he never worked there. But then they found them on the employee roster from the time. He went in there, people knew him. Right. Like it seems like the guy really was a propulsion specialist. And they really did try to get some off the fucking beaten path scientists. Like let's take it because they have to get fresh eyes in these things allegedly. Every few years they bring in but everyone sworn to secrecy and it's very compartmentalized. So the metallurgy guys are not allowed to talk to the propulsion guys, the propulsion guys.

1:13:40Right. No one gets together and goes, what the fuck is this? Right. They can't have a group of signs. So they exist in a team form and it just doesn't work that way. They need more people. And he said no one was able to figure out anything about it. Other than there's some sort of a reactor that worked on some new element. It was theoretical back then, but now they know it's a real element. I will believe it. Like I have no reason to not believe it and to certainly not like what I was getting at though is that like when you see an insane system like these helicopters and the goggles and then you see these insane nuclear powered submarines and these insane aircraft carriers.

1:14:17Like what we have built is so fucking mind blowing. Why wouldn't we think that we've hit some next level propulsion system and that the reason why the Pentagon is talking about out of this world crafts they're obscuring reality. Like the reason why people are like coming forward and telling you about their experience in this program. Like maybe that's obscuring reality. It might be bullshit. It might be that we the government and the military and the contractors don't want any of our enemies to know that they have some fucking bonkers shit. That can go literally like the speed of light that we have that we have.

1:14:56So I was just working up in New Mexico and like we were filming around Los Alamos. Have you ever been to Los Alamos? No. And like it's amazing that like people just haven't seen the laboratory, the current Los Alamos research laboratory, which is you know across the street from where Oppenheimer lived when he was in the state of New Mexico. It was doing the Manhattan Project, which was this boy school that they kicked everyone out and all the scientists moved in, which was not in the film, which is quite interesting. Like Los Alamos, if you can ever go there and see the museums and you know it's just a fascinating place to see where they built that bomb.

1:15:38But across the street or actually across this river from where Oppenheimer lived is now the current Los Alamos research laboratory. Pull up a picture of that one if you want to see something mind blowing. It's bigger than UCLA campus. It's this massive research facility in Los Alamos, which and you can't see half of it. It's supposedly a giant chunk of it is underground. It's completely armed. We would drive. There's a road that road at the top there is this access road that we would drive every day to go up. There's a ski mountain above it. So for some reason they let you drive fairly close, but it's all homeland security protecting it.

1:16:24Super fortified in arms and it's in the middle of fucking nowhere. And this was birthed from, you can see where it is, right? It's in the middle of nowhere. Literally in the middle of nowhere. The way first got up there and we're like what are they doing here? And like everyone's like well it's digital warfare. It's nuclear maintenance. It's you know alien dissection. It is like like forget area 51. This place was like you know so if we're inventing shit, this is the kind of place for inventing it. And we went out a couple of days into these, there's you know some restaurants and bars in the town of Los Alamos.

1:17:10And I'm like if I'm China, I'm just hiring, I'm hiring hot girls, getting them to turn and putting them as bartenders or cocktail waitresses. Because all the scientists from Los Alamos just go there after work and get drunk. That's where, that's where everything's going down. Wow. Like you got it like half of it's underground. Well that's what they say. Like we'd be up on this mountain. There's a, this place looks like it's massive. And it's in the middle of nowhere. That's so wild. I'm like I'm trying to start conversation. I'm like what do you know about Los Alamos? Jamie what's that image to the left that's got all the, I looked it up to.

1:17:50What is that? What they've got like the accelerators you know, like particle accelerators. I mean, I'm sure half your listeners know what this is. Yeah, but like this is all, was all started by Oppenheimer every the whole, the, these be a log cabin. No, that's the school. I think that's the school that they took over. They showed a little bit of it. Oh, from the scientists. Yeah, it was such a crazy story like how they did these scientists just moved into this school, kicked all the kids out under, you know, national security order. And the scientists moved in and they just are in like to your point, no one knew what anyone else was doing when they were building the bomb.

1:18:32So you're working on one part. I'm working on another. Our wives have no idea what's going on. We're going out and building the bomb all day and coming home and just like drinking. They all drink and like I think there was like a lot of wife's flopping and we're chicken going on today. They were just partying and building fucking nuclear bombs. And now you go out there and see what this and it's just like I just want to know what are we doing? How much does it cost and who's in charge and Los Alamos now? So, so if there is those systems in my mind, if there was an alien ship found the government wanted, they're going to take it to Los Alamos.

1:19:13That's where they're going to take it. That's where they're going to dissect it. And whatever is going on out there is some deep and real shit. That's where Los Alamos worked. If you go from Wilbur and Orville writes invention of the aircraft, how long is the time period before someone drops a nuclear bomb out of one? How much time is between, was it 60 years? Like when was Wilbur and Orville's first flight? That's a great question. Because if you think of that, just think of like what an insane jump in technology from the very first airplane to dropping a nuclear bomb out of one. Or just dropping a bomb, right?

1:19:59Like weaponizing, weaponizing, air flight and like, but a nuclear bomb, even more insane. Because of the technology involved, just what a cool 1902's around when they credit them for flying. That was Kitty Hawk. Wow. I was 18 hundreds. Yeah, I did too. That seems late. 1902. That's crazy. So it's 45 years. Is that real? Right. Oh my god. And so 45 years before they dropped a nuclear bomb out of it? That's what it is, right? It's 47. You see like 1903's the plane. So it's when they think they got the bad. Was Kitty Hawk? Yeah. Kitty Hawk was in 1903, was it? The flight? I don't think it was. It was.

1:20:41I double checked. Wow. December 1903. Oh my god. Well, that makes sense though, because there's video of it. There's film of it. So it has to be when, when did they invent film? Right. You could, there's some stuff from the 1800's, but it's rough. Yeah, it was bad film. It was like jumpy, like. Yeah. Right. But so your point is like how short a period of time that happened. What an insane jump. And so where is it going, right? Like, what do they have already? Like, if they have programs? To do something like Los Alamos Labs. If they have programs to do something like Area S4. If they can develop these insane machines in silence.

1:21:22What, what, what else do they, and AI control aircraft that's going to fly? There's just a great article in New York Times yesterday about it. All these companies that are now scrambling to take over the buildings, which, which is a threat to the established weapons manufacturers, jet builders, because they're the future are fighting China in a large, like full scale and a battle is going to be AI controlled drone dependent. So rather than sending human beings in 60 million dollar jets, they're going to send swarms of two or three million dollar AI controlled fighter drones. And those are going to be self driven, right?

1:22:06Self flown, the way Elon's trying to get self driving vehicles. I mean, self, this is the plan, great article yesterday. And that's where it's going. And if Orville Wright could see that, robot wars. A hundred percent robot wars. Robot wars. Like, Cameron had it right. You know, Terminator had it right. Yeah. And like, like, AI dude, right? Right? Right. It's on. It's crazy. It's crazy. I mean, I think this is what, not, I'm not defending Ted Dzenski. But this is what Ted Kaczynski's manifesto was about. Was the construction of technology was going to replace the human race. What is this, Jamie?

1:22:51That's an AI drone. Wow. I mean, this is, this is a. Whoa. This is the future. Look at this fucking thing. And like, my business is on strike, you know, the writers and, and, and, and I'm, I support my strike. But, you know, AI is a big issue. We don't like, I was worried about AI. Right. Well, everybody's worried about AI, right? Like, AI is going to be fighting our wars. And, and like, you know, when AI is going to be writing books, when, when Trump was talking about space force back in the day, like, this is space force. Yeah. This is real space force shit. Yeah. And it's funny. They didn't even think of that in Star Wars.

1:23:35AI, no, no, they didn't. In that wild, like, in Star Wars, no one had a cell phone and they had like, they did have like, I mean, come on. Pretty dope. Definitely dope. Yeah, they had R2G. R2 helped with some shit, but I don't know what he was really doing. But he was so sad all the time. He was so annoying. But a man, but this is a giant difference between that and sending a pilotless jet to engage in combat. It seems like that's the direction. Yeah. I get fucking so terrified when I watch those Boston dynamic videos of those robots that they're inventing. Yeah, it's crazy. They're getting so good.

1:24:09They're acrobatics. I went to MIT. We filmed something at MIT and they took me into the robotics department, like down in the basement. And they showed me, like, these 10 kids did a presentation. You're been at campus at MIT? Yes. Fucking cool, right? Yeah. We got to film on the campus. We're the first film, Patriots Day, because one of the MIT cops was killed by the marathon bombers. They killed him after the bombing. And so they wanted to honor him and they let us film there. And they took us down to the robotics wing and showed us a robot cheetah that they had invented. It was sprinting up and down the halls and jumping over little obstacles.

1:24:53And I'm like, I'm like, what? Can I see that? Show me the MIT robotic cheetah. The those little ones that look like dogs. It was a cheetah. Oh, like that. Yeah, but it was a cheetah. It was different than this. These things scare the shit out of me because you could just easily see them with a gun on them. Yeah, that's Robocop shit. And if you watch that Netflix show, Black Mirror, there's a great episode. Did you ever see the heavy metal episode? Is that about robots? It's about one of these things chasing after this lady. It's fucking great. It's terrifying. But you look at how it moves and gyrates.

1:25:31It's real. And it's like you talk about like, so look at that and think about the progression that the right brother from the right brothers to, you know, Hiroshima in terms of aircraft. 50 years, that technology, that was what they were doing with the cheetah. That was what that was that was that MIT? Yeah, this is 10 years ago. 10 years ago. It looks like a fast. This is what they showed me, but it was, they put a, like a cheetah, a cheetah skin over it. This is 28 miles an hour. I bet it goes 100 now. Like think about that. It's probably electric now. We're talking about electric engines. Think about that with the lightsaber attached to its head, just like charging through crowd control.

1:26:11It looks like a giant dog. That's the root, see the cheetah tail there on the, see that cheetah tail? That was the room we were in. That's MIT, isn't it? Yeah, that's actually the room we were in. Laser distance data. So it's, it's figuring out distances between things. It's just got faster one year ago. Wow. With that fucker. Like, like think about the applications. Yeah, it's not good. It's not going to teach people. Can we go, go, go, what's one, like what's one kind of loving, positive application for that thing? Like rescue people out of a, I have a dog. Yeah. Oh, okay, I may be a rescue.

1:26:50But they're not going to use it for that. Oh, they're not, dude. They're not. That's coming like in your door. Remember, remember when was it Gates? Was the LA chief of police who first used a tank in South Central Los Angeles? Do you remember that story? I don't remember that. Oh, God. I think it was Gates was his name. And he was the, like his strategy was, okay, if you're hold up in your, your house, so we want to arrest you, we're going to put a battering ram on the tank. And he drove his tank. And he got in huge tremendous trouble. Like the beginning of like the LAPD being called out for like military, excessive, excessive.

1:27:28Nancy Reagan rated a South Central crack house. What? I think this is it. They're coming. This is it. Yeah, it was like of the first designer drug raid. This was a power. It says peer publicity stunt. Nancy, look at this. Nancy Reagan wanted to find a way to maintain her visibility as an anti -narcotics crusader. Now that her husband was out of office, chief Gates was looking toward a possible gubernatorial run, which mercifully never came to pass. For those arrested, it was another day in the war that American politicians and police had declared on black and brown communities. They really rolled in with a tank.

1:28:04Yeah, they did. They put a battering ram on a tank and rolled in. That's another interesting element of pain killer that we touch upon was the parallels between oxy cotton and crack cocaine. You know, the crack epidemic. Mm -hmm. Yeah, there it is. Look at that. That's LAPD. Like. Rescue. Going after, that's the war on drugs in Los Angeles. That was rescue. We need to rescue you from your life. But that was how crack was dealt with, right, in the 80s. And if you look at oxy cotton and what the sacklers were able to do and how they were able to basically take something much more lethal and certainly more profitable than fucking crack and get away with it.

1:28:59Like that's something that we talk about quite a bit. It's pretty insane. It's pretty insane that this is the reality of our current generation that money allowed this to happen and that influence allowed this to happen. And most people just trusted their healthcare professional and then, like as it said in the film, or in your show, you know, that guy is trusting the FDA. He's trusting that they know what they're doing. What do you think you would do if, you know, you hurt yourself. You were training and, you know, had a really painful injury. Say, you know, you really fucked up your shoulder.

1:29:41And in between, the immediate pain was, you know, very high. And a doctor was like, okay, here's a deal. Like this is going to really fucking hurt. We recommend a low dose of an opioid. How would you react to that? Well, I've had that happen. I have had knee surgery and when I was in the hospital, they had like a morphine drip and it was wonderful. It's a very, like apparently you press the button and you get more morphine. Sure, that's how it worked. This is 92 somewhere around there, 93.

1:30:24But when I got my nose fixed, I got my nose fixed a few years back and the, it didn't even hurt. And the doctor prescribed medicine. Oh, she could bring it back to the first surgery when I got the drip. When I got the drip, he did give me vikin. It was either vikin or percusset. I can't remember which one it was. I'm pretty sure it was vikin and though I only took it once and I felt so stupid. It made me feel so dumb and just dull. It wasn't a wonderful feeling. It wasn't oxy -con. It wasn't a wonderful feeling at all. It sucked. And so I only took it once and then I just dealt with the pain. And that was a pretty significant knee surgery because it's a patella tendon grafts.

1:31:02You take a piece out of your shin bone, a piece out of your patella tendon, a piece out of your kneecap and they open you up like a fish and screw into your bones. But I didn't take anything else. I was like, I'm not taking shit. I'm just going to deal with pain. And then when I got my nose fixed, the doctor fixed it and he prescribed me two different opiates. One of them was oxy -con and I forget what the other one was. How long ago was that? 15 years ago. And when he to prescribe it to me, I'm like, but it doesn't hurt. I'm like, it doesn't hurt. Like right now it doesn't hurt. You did the operation.

1:31:36It's done, right? Like, it's not hurting. I mean, it's uncomfortable because I've got these fucking sponge things shoved up. My nostrils are little tubes in them to expand my nostrils and allow it all to heal in the right form after it was horrible. It sucked. But it's a really good move. You have a deviated septum. My nose, I broke my nose for the first time and I was like five and I think I broke it. Who knows how many times after that? Maybe a dozen. It was destroyed. The inside of my nose was all fucked up. It was completely closed off. So they fixed it. The doctor was fantastic. He fixed it and he, buddy, tried to give me two different opiates.

1:32:12He's like, you're going to need these. And I was like, put it doesn't hurt. I don't understand what you're saying. I'm telling you right now, I'm not in pain. Am I going to be in more pain? Like how am I going to be in more pain later? I think right after the operation, it's the most pain. You'd be maxed out. And he goes, you're going to be very, very uncomfortable. Just take this prescription and I took it home and I just put this prescription in the drawer. I go, okay, if it gets crazy if something happens, I just, I can't sleep and I'm an agony. It never hurt at all. It was just uncomfortable.

1:32:40Just a little, you know, like I got punched in the nose. But it wasn't like, I can't sleep. I was like, this isn't fine. Like what the fuck are you talking? You trying to give me heroin? Yeah. For this? Yes, she was. This is crazy. She did give you heroin. Two different kinds. I forget what it was. But I'm one of them was oxy cotton, one of them was something else. But I'm like, you're giving me two different kinds of painkillers? And this is when I was kind of already aware of that because I already had people in my family that had had issues with pills. And I was like, dude, what do you give me?

1:33:08Yeah, it's really disturbing. My son broke his collarbone playing the cross and I had to take him to the hospital in Connecticut. And you know, the doctor was like, okay, broken collarbone is not much we can do. He was 16 or 17 and he wrote him a script for oxy cotton. And I'm like, are you out of your fucking mind? I'm like, how the, the, the prescription? I'm like, are you out of your mind in the doctor? Like, it works. It works. It's going to be pain. And I don't know, it's interesting because I do wonder, you know, I remember, you know whom Marcus's brother Morgan, the trial of you ever met him?

1:33:56No, I haven't. Tough, dude. And when I, when I was getting ready to do the film, I had heard about Morgan, but I never met him and I, and he had fallen out of a helicopter doing training and broken his back and was, was in, recouping in, in Virginia. And I knew he'd been hurt and so I wanted to meet him because they're very close and I knew if I was going to make a film about Marcus, I had to at least meet Morgan because Morgan's powerful figure of Marcus life. So I flew out there and went to his house. I got there late at night and a bunch of seals in the house and Morgan was sitting in a chair and and they were watching TV and he was just sitting there and he was, everyone swine, he would tremble and you know, he hadn't, he decided he wasn't going to take anything and he had to broke him back.

1:34:44I'm like, dude, you're not taking anything and he's like, fuck, no, I'm not taking anything. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to experience this pain. I'm going to, I'm going to process this pain. I'm going to use this pain and he wrote out his broken back without any pain, without any pain medication and it, it did make me think and I still think, you know, how pain adverse we all are, right? Like, oh, it hurts. Make it go away. Make it go away. Give me the quickest path to being pain free. Drink this, smoke this, buy this, fuck this, whatever, right? And that we're so bad at tolerating pain and the expectation is, oh, okay, Joe, we just worked on your nose.

1:35:32You're going to feel pain. Take this. You don't want that pain? No, you don't want that pain. You can't handle that pain. And we're just so fucking soft where it comes to pain, right? Well, it's also, I think we've been programmed to think that when you're in pain, you need to take medication regardless of the dangers of that stuff. I remember this sad story from COVID where this woman overdosed on Tylenol. She died from a Cid -A -Medifin poison, which is apparently fairly common. If you take a lot of Tylenol, your liver can't process it, you get liver failure. And it's just from pain, you know, just didn't want to feel it.

1:36:07I don't want to feel like this. Give me something that makes me not feel like this. But I mean, I have not had back surgery, but I've had three knee surgeries and I told you on the one I took the one vikin' in. But then after that, I didn't take anything. So my right knee, when I got it done, I didn't take shit. And I got my left knee scoped, I didn't take shit. And then I got the nose fixed, didn't take shit. I was like, he just deal with pain. But back pain, I think, is a different animal. Back pain is debilitating in a way that I have an experience. I could walk around on crutches if my knee was fucked up.

1:36:43You know, there's a difference. And I think you got to be really cautious. I don't want to make anybody feel bad because they're taking medication for back pain. Because I think back pain is something where it just overwhelms your existence if you have a bad herniated disc. It does. I've had a welms. I've had them. I had surgery on them. And like, yeah, I had to get done. Did you get it fused or did you get... I had the discectomy. Okay, so they took a little bit of your disc out. Yeah, a little bit. In the future, if you're ever going to do something like that again, like we were talking about stem cells, that's the fix.

1:37:15And I avoided that kind of surgery. You think stem cells for herniated discs? Yes. Yes. Stem cells in traction, spinal traction. It depends on how bad it's herniated, whether it's bulging or whether it's ruptured, whether it's ruptured. They do have disc replacements that many people have done now. There are these titanium articulating discs. My friend Eddie got it in his back, Al Jermaine Sterling, who is the USC Bannemwee champ, and he got it in his neck. Are they still? Yeah, it's a titanium articulating disc. And was he able to fight that part again and he defended the title? He defended the title one to...

1:37:53I think three times after that. That's amazing. It's amazing. It's amazing. Yeah, three times. And he actually defended the title more than anybody ever has in that division. Do you think his neck was stronger? 100 % after... Like it was stronger than prior to the injury? Yes. No, no, no. No, no, not as strong as like if he's not injured at all. He wasn't like the bionic man that was rebuilt stronger and... I don't believe so. Kind of advantage. But it might be the same. It might be that his neck is the same. Strengthen your neck comes from, obviously the structure, the bones, but it also comes from working your neck out.

1:38:29You know, like there's a bunch of exercises that guys do to strengthen their neck. And sometimes when guys don't do that, then they run into problems like bulging discs. But you're going to run in those anyway in combat sports. It's inevitable. But I know of many, many, many, many people now that have sought help particularly overseas. Whether it is in Peru, a Panama rather, Colombia or Tijuana, the CPI Institute, Tijuana. I know there's bio -excelerator in Colombia that's very good. They're taking care of a lot of UFC athletes. A lot of guys get stuff fixed. Why can't this stuff be approved in the US?

1:39:03Like in my suspicion, is the same suspicion when you see the influence that these pharmaceutical drug companies have over the FDA. My suspicion is that there has probably been an analysis done of what would happen if stem cell use was ubiquitous. What would happen if it was everywhere? What would happen if you allowed people to use stem cells to wear the ill -guided alcohol? Surgery of alcohol. Well, maybe. But certainly more people would get healed. More people would get fixed. Look, I don't know of anyone who has had, and this is just my own anecdotal experience. I don't know of anyone, it's had bad experiences with stem cells.

1:39:41I've had people that I know that did it and it didn't help them. But upon further examination, either their problem was too big and it needed required surgery. Or in the most poor, we're dealing with like fighters. And a lot of these guys just don't wait long enough before they go hard. They go back and they train hard. They have like an issue or a shoulder issue and they go back and train. They train, they're too savage. They get right back into it as soon as they start feeling good. And you really need a lot of time for it to take root in many, many months for it to really heal. But like I've said many times on this show and I told you earlier, I had a full -length rotator cuff tear.

1:40:18My doctor assured me I was going to need surgery. But why were you able to do it in the US? It was different. There was different regulations when I did it. Whatever, I don't remember exactly what mesenchymal stem cells and they used exosomes. I don't exactly remember like what it all was. But I know, I remember that it's all processed from an abelical cord. So say if a young lady like, I think you have to be 25 years or younger, has a baby through a C section. Then they harvest their abelical cord, I don't know, they sell it or whatever. And then they convert that into stem cells and that is unique, particularly unique in its ability to help heal any kind of tissue.

1:40:57But the difference between what you're allowed to do in America now is different from what was back then. But also the stuff they're doing in these other places overseas is much more dramatic. Because they can use much larger doses and they keep you there for three days. And they also combine it with hyperbaric therapy and a bunch of other different things that also accelerate your healing. NAD, IV drips, a bunch of different things that help along the process of your healing. And I know many people that have avoided surgery because of that and now are back to 100%. But doesn't mean you don't need surgery.

1:41:29Like there's certain disk issues that are ruptured beyond the point of repair and you probably need something done. And it's nice that there is all these different options. You just, you have to be careful. You know, whenever you're getting something that's an operation, like especially if you're getting a replacement, like a knee replacement or something. All that stuff is going to be careful. But you think that it's possible that the FDA is being coerced by other forces to keep this shit out of the area. I absolutely don't know. Right? But it's possible. I think if it's possible that a human being, a lone human being, could be taken into a hotel room.

1:42:07And for a couple of days and then comes out and he has a $400 ,000 a year job after he retires. And this revolving door does exist. We know that. We know that exists. Yeah. Why wouldn't you protect your interests by stopping some sort of a novel, new sort of treatment that may lead to way less people on pain medication, way less people that need anti -inflammatories, way less people that need a lot of the stuff you sell. It makes sense. It does. To me. And then you go, oh, the dangers of stem cells. But actually caught in this safe and effective, like that's so nuts. That's so nuts that they say that because we're the bodies.

1:42:49Where are the dangers? Where are the bodies? Yeah. Where are the bodies? I haven't heard about stem cell addiction. I haven't heard of stem cell overdoses. Yeah. Where are the bodies? Where are the bodies? I have a bunch of anecdotal stories from UFC fighters, Jiu -Jitsu athletes, good friends of mine. A lot of them, like dozens of guys who have gone and had massive relief from stem cells. Yeah, I got a buddy in UFC right now who just just went down to, I think Bogota. Yeah. He's doing so on because I have I have some back issues. Go down there. Yeah, I will. You should. Bogota, you want to? Well, I do find Panama.

1:43:28It just sounds so crazy. I'm going to go to Tijuana and fix my back. I know. It sounds, it sounds wrong, but I started to believe that it's not. I think we haven't fucked up system. I think I really, really do. And the process to making that stuff legal, they're in the process of doing that. And Dr. Neil Reardon is deeply involved in this. He's the guy that I had on with Mel Gibson back in the day. And Mel talked about his own injuries that he got fixed with stem cells and his dad. He said his dad was in a wheelchair. Yeah. And then, you know, like a few years later, his dad's walking around. Where did Mel go?

1:43:58They went to Panama. And Dr. Reardon, he was like the first guy that I ever talked to about this stuff. And he's written many published papers and books on it. And very, very, very knowledgeable guy when it comes to this. And they're absolutely convinced that it's beneficial. And we should be using it everywhere. But so when like one of the things that made that, I don't think anyone really understands that hasn't done it is like, okay, we're going to go get stem cell therapy in wherever. And Panama, what does that mean? Like you, like you fly from Japan, you drive to some like establish looking clinic or is it like in the back of a strip mom?

1:44:35No, no, no, no, no. It's in a very, I said my mom there. Twice. Yeah. In Panama? Yeah. I said my mom, well, you should lead with that. Yeah. I should have told you that earlier. Yeah, you did that. Yeah, my mom had really good success with it with her knee. But when you go there, believe in it. Yeah, okay. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a nice area where where their clinic is is very nice. It's in a beautiful office building. They take you there for three days. And you sleep like so is it. You go to a hotel. So you. Yeah, there's a hotel there. There's a hotel right next to it. And what the treatment is what?

1:45:07It's an injection. It's a series of injections in wherever the injury is, along with IV infusions. They do IV stem cells as well, which helps your whole body. Like whatever little weird aches and tears you have. My friend Gordon Ryan, who's the best jujitsu athlete of all time, he had an issue with his shoulder. So he got injections and shoulder and it fixed his neck. He had a neck problem for like a year. And just by the fact that it's in the area, it literally goes to wherever the injury is. Wow, wow. And it fixed his neck. He's like, there's no other explanation. He's like four weeks later, my neck was better.

1:45:42I always felt that the one of the greatest recoveries from an injury that I've ever witnessed. I mean, interested to hear what yours is. I was at the fight when Silva cracked his leg. Yes. Chris Widen. Chris gets wide. And I was there. I was like upfront. And I heard it and I heard him scream. I saw it, right? You were there. Yeah. You were there. You were. How did he recover from that in fight again? Well, he did, but he didn't. In my mind, I think Anderson, so was the greatest middleweight of all time, right up there without a son. Yeah, I think out of Sonia and Anderson, it's like different errors, but God damn when they were on top.

1:46:25I mean, Anderson was just in the matrix. He was so good. He was such an assassin in his prime. People forgot how great he was. Like top five of all time. Oh, yeah. Top three of all time. I don't know. I don't like a Mount Rushmore because there's no room for foreheads. Yeah, I need to do a lot more because you have to have hoist graces. But maybe a Mount Rushmore club. He's one of the greatest of all time. And as he recovered from that, but he didn't. He was never the same guy. He did. But if you watch Anderson Silva pre -Quit Chris Wideman pre leg break and then post leg break, it's a different athlete.

1:47:03He can't kick the same way with that leg anymore. I bet it doesn't move as well. I bet there's issues in terms of like load balance and like the way it feels. It's probably in pain all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of factors. You're probably very hesitant to throw that same kick again because you just had your leg snap in half and your leg was fucked up for a good solid year and a half after that. And you had a surgery and there's plates and there's lots and shit. Screws. He won. He won fights after that. He won fights afterwards. Not as many. No. I mean, what is Anderson's record?

1:47:39Should pull up Anderson's record. And then again, this is not in disrespect of Anderson because I mean, Chris Wideman just came back from a knee break too or a leg break as well, brother. And it was just last weekend. To be at the worst injury, the worst injury. It's the worst injury in UFC. Selva. Yeah, well, I saw it with Wideman the same exact injury. He snapped his own leg too, which is crazy. That Anderson was involved. So look at that. Go scroll up. Okay. So Derek Brunson was his last win. And that was in 2017. Then he lost to Israel, a lasagna, Jared Canoneer and you're right. Hall. And then there's the loss of Michael Bissby.

1:48:16So you go like from Chris Wideman. So the NICDS fight was kind of crazy. That was July 2013. Yeah, I think that was no contest because so you got two years or a year and a half from the wide men leg break till he fights NICDS again. And I think what is that no contest? Because like I think Selva tested positive for steroids. Yes, still, Selva tested positive for steroids, which makes sense because he's recovering from this horrific leg injury. You know, like when you when you there's no way you're going to do that clean and come back and year and a half, like you need help. You need like that's the legit reason for those kind of steroids.

1:48:53So if you go before that though, you go before the the wide men fight, look at these fucking wins. Right. I mean, Stefan Bonner, Chale Sun, Eusional Kame, Vitor Belford, Chale Sun, and Damien Mayer, fourth Griffin, Pallas Lates, Patrick Cote, James Irvin. It's just K .O. K .O. K .O. Submission K .O. Rich Franklin K .O. Nate Markhart K .O. Travis Luder Submission, Rich Franklin K .O. Chris Leibon K .O. Tony Frickland K .O. I mean, he's just dominating everyone. And then what after and after the leg break, look, he won one fight after the leg break, he's got the no contest, which was kind of a boring fight anyway.

1:49:33But then you got loss, loss, one win, a decision, right? You never get lost, lost, lost. You're right. He was never the same again. He was never the same again. The Anderson Silva that smoked for us, Griffin, the Anderson Silva that destroyed V .Tor Belford, the Anderson Silva that just dominated that division. He was never really that guy again. The Anderson Silva that beat Dan Henderson, he was never that guy again. And I think that it's a very, very, very, very difficult injury to come back from and be 100%. What are your thoughts on, and I've talked to Dana about it, like what, you know, we talk, you talk about, I've done work with the NFL on Brain Injury.

1:50:18And you know, worked on changing the way football players tackle, started a heads up tackling program with kids, trying to get them to stop leading with their heads. For Brain Injury and for paralysis, I've seen both and worked in that space a bit. And, you know, what are your thoughts on where, what we're going to see, you know, in the UFC with some of these fighters in five, 10 years, like what, you know, I work with a lot of boxers, and I've seen a lot of boxers have a rough time, obviously, as they get older and they get out of it. What do you think the long -term ramifications for fighters in their brains are when they get out?

1:51:05It is absolutely never good to get hit in the head. Yeah. We all know that. To deny that is crazy. But this sport is you trying to hit someone in the head and them trying to hit you in that. It's a fucking insane sport. It's you trying to strangle them, you trying to get them to not hit you, you try to take them down, you try to submit them, but it's this part of the sport, a big part of the sport is getting hit in the head. And some of these guys are getting kicked in the head. If you've ever seen someone get kicked in the head and I've seen a lot, it is a terrifying moment. When a guy like Leon Edwards in the fifth round takes out Kamar Ousman, who's like one of the greatest of all time with one kick, that's when you realize, like, oh my god, what a ferocious weapon a shindier neck is.

1:51:56I mean, it's crazy. I can't even watch people get hit by those things. There's no way that's good for you. That is definitely bad for you. The question is how bad and how much damage have you taken, what steps have you made in camp to mitigate the amount of damage that you take? And in camp too, right? In camp. Yes. And you have to make sure when you're sparring camp, that you are being very careful, that you're not going to war, that you're not getting... There's a lot of fights where guys have gotten big concussion, before they fought, and then when they fought, the first punch that hits them, they go out.

1:52:34Even punches that don't even look like a devastating punch, but they're so damaged already going into the fight, because they trained too hard. They got beat up and... And then there's this intangible thing, where sometimes guys have an iron jaw. Literally, you can't knock them out, and then one day it goes. And when it goes, it's gone forever. When it goes, they get knocked out a bunch of times after that. And that seems to be indicative of something wrong, something seriously wrong. What that is, I'm not a neurologist, I'm not sure, it's got to be damaged to your brain. It's got to be damaged to your body.

1:53:12You're not durable anymore for some reason. And that's the tip of the iceberg. The long -term effects are severe, cognitive decline. It's pugilistic at dementia. It's trauma -induced Parkinson's. It's some boxers like Freddie Roach has. Yeah. It's a reality of this sport. And you would hope that they have friends that can have that long -hard talk with them when it's over and say, this is not... I'm not saying this because, you know, for any reason other than, you literally have to be told this. You got to get out now, or you're not going to be normal in 10 years. Like, I have run into old boxers, guys that were younger than me, and I ran into Terry Norris once.

1:54:03I was a giant fan of Terry Norris. He was so fucking good. And I ran into him at a fight, and he's learning his words so bad. And they did a whole news piece on him where he talked about it, and his wife has helped him, and he's gotten better since then. But the struggle that you see, like one of the fucking great, well -to -way champions ever. And then you see how he's dealing with things now. It was 154, I'm not sure. But you see how he's dealing with things now. It's like, God, was it worth it? I don't know, man. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I was thinking, I saw you had Terrence Crawford on the other day, who I love so much.

1:54:40He's amazing. And he just seems so sharp, and his defensive skills are great. Yeah. And, you know, but I watch it. I'm like, man, I hope you know when to stop. Yeah, it would be a tragedy to see a guy that sharp. Struggle, mentally. And I do think it's interesting. You know, I've worked in boxing for a while. I have a gym, and I manage some fighters. And where is it? It's in Santa Monica, Churchill Boxing Club. Oh, wow. That's awesome. Well, it's a great gym. We were Wild Card West. We started as Wild Card West. Freddie let me use his name to get to gym going. And then we were Wild Card West forever.

1:55:20We've had Alvarez did four camps at our gym. Wow, canelo did. Yeah, canelo did. That's amazing. Canelo used to do all, the gym was actually we were about to close. I was about to close the gym down. And I was here. I was in Albuquerque making loan survivor. And the gym was falling apart. And it was just a fucking headache to have a boxing gym. It's a real headache. I can imagine. And I had all the toilet, the pipes had blown, the toilet pipes. So to fly back on a weekend and with my assistant, mop it up. And my assistant was this, you know, she was a director's assistant. And she's in there cleaning shit and a boxing gym with me.

1:56:02And at one point she's like, I didn't sign up for this. I'm a princess. And I meant to be it. She was delusional and delirious from cleaning up shit with me and a gym. And she was like muttering about how she was a princess. And I'm like, okay, stop. We cleaned it up. And I'm there for one more day and I'm going to go back to New Mexico to film. And I'm in the gym and I'm like, I got to shut this down. And you know, Gary Shanling was a partner of mine in the gym. I don't know. Do you know Gary loved boxing? I met him once. He loved boxing. I did not know that. And I called him and I'm like, Gary, I'm closing it down.

1:56:37It's too much of a headache. It's just nothing but a liability all the time. And I'm in the gym by myself getting my last day there. I'm going to go back to New Mexico and it's clean and I'm kind of looking at it. And I had it for like six years and it was fun and you know, I love boxing. And I'm like, I got to shut it down. And in the mirror, I see this like little flash of red in the mirror. And I see someone's come in. And I turn. And the guy standing there is like, are you Peter? I'm like, gas, he goes, Freddie Roach told me to come down. I'm looking to train for my next camp. My name's Saul Everaz.

1:57:16I'm like, yeah, I know who you are. Fucking canella on my gym, right? Red hair. And he's like, he's very polite. And he's like, could I, could I train? Could I do my camp? He was fighting this kidney m Lopez. He was getting ready for his camp for Lopez. This is before, you know, he'd really taken up. But he was emerging, right? And I'm like, yeah, you can train here. I'm about to close the gym down for good. And I show him around. He's like, I see the gym. I'm like, well, here's the gym. It's not much. It's a ring and our heavy bags, our speed bags. Here's our sauna. He looks around and goes, okay, could I, could I train here?

1:57:50I go, yeah, he goes out. There's two suburban's out in the parking lot full of his camp. Eddie and Cheppo's trainers, five fighters. They're like, come on. And they all come running in. Turn on the music, start eating. And he came in and started doing his camps there. And that got my gym going. Like, once he came to gym and we've had everyone do camps there. And I've had a front row seat to boxing. And man, like, one of the many things that I look at is how hard it is for these guys to let go. Yeah, so you talk about Terry Norris staying a little bit too long. You know, Freddie Roach stayed in the ring probably.

1:58:34If you too many fights, Olli certainly did, right? And like watching these guys. And we have a lot of, you have see guys have come in and worked on their boxing and our gym. And seeing the struggles that they go through. You know, and you hope, yeah, like, yeah, there's someone that's going to say, okay, enough, it's time. But man, is it hard to let go of that? It's very hard to let go. And I think there's also, there's a bunch of factors that play at playing that. One of them is their identity. That their identity is all wrapped up in them being a fighter. Yeah, it's very hard for people to let that go.

1:59:15Also, it's the only thing they've ever dedicated their time to. A lot of these guys don't have like serious other side jobs or serious other side professions. Some of them do. Some of the really smart ones, they kind of, they break off and they start little businesses and they do stuff so that they bought, like Eric Anders, guys, been on the podcast before. He's invested in real estate. He's bought a bunch of houses. So he's good forever. You have share, boxing. Yeah, so some guys are smart like that. You know, Conrad McGregor obviously did. He's very smart. I mean, Conrad started that whiskey company.

1:59:47Did the Floyd May with the fight? He made $100 million and starts his whiskey company. He's worth like a half a billion. He doesn't have to do shit forever. And he's only fighting if he fights again because he wants to. But most of them, when it's over, they're, they're confused. They don't know what to do. And the high of winning a fight is like nothing else in all the sports. It's there's no other, because you might lose. And if you lose, it's going to be more devastating than anything else in sports. If you lose a basketball game, I'm sure it sucks. I'm sure you feel terrible. But you can go home.

2:00:20You don't go to the fucking hospital with your face battered in. And the whole world saw you get kicked in the face. And there's memes of you getting flatlined. And there's like animation of you getting knocked into orbit. And you have to have all these trolls and haters talk shit about you on Twitter. When you got knocked out in a world championship fight in front of the whole world. Yeah. And if you're on a basketball team or a football team or any other sport really, at least you know, guess what? I'm playing next Tuesday. Exactly. And I got a contract. Exactly. And I got a player, too. Exactly.

2:00:51And I got a whole bunch of stuff. And I got a lead like back. Yeah. It is a lone wolf sport. It's for people that don't play well with others. Yeah. And it's for people that also value the camaraderie of other people that are similar to them. And like what gets me with boxing, which is like, you know, UFC, at least there's an organized, imprensible uniting it, right? Like there's the UFC. There's Dana, right? There's you as part of the face of the USC. There's owners that have, you know, built a system. Yeah. Right? I think Frank Lorenzo did a really good job. Of giving birth to. But like boxing, it's like, do you have any weight classes that are in boxing today?

2:01:33Can you name them all? There's a lot. But I don't think that's a bad thing. Oh, come on. I don't. How about the, how about multiple promoters and multiple? That's an issue. And multiple belts, like too many belts. Yeah. Too many promoters. So like, you've got, you've got four hundred and forty pound champions that are all promoted by different guys. And then four hundred and forty seven pound champions that are. And so there's no continuity of organization. To our thoughts. Yeah, that is absolutely true. When we get to a level like a guy like Terrence Crawford who is the only man to ever be undisputed in two way classes, which is pretty insane that no one else is there.

2:02:16There's been many, like many pack you have one so much. He's so good, man. He's such a great guy too. Yeah. Manipackia one world titles in eight different way classes. I mean, that's insane. How many world titles in Manipackia win? Let's put, let's pull that up. Look at his body progression from when he started to when he ended. He got to toss it. Something was going on. He got to toss it. Oh, no. But yeah, like wow. Yeah. Okay. Oh my god. Twelve major world titles in eight different weight divisions. That is so insane. Those accomplishments are so insane. But what were the weight? What did he start?

2:02:57Like 118 and 111 -147 maybe? Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. I think his first one was, so first one was fly weight. What is that? Is that 155? What is it? 126? No, I think it's different. I think it's lighter than what I think it's like. What's Banta Waste? What is Banta? Well, lightweight is 135. This is my point. And there's too many weight cuts. And there's too many weight cuts. And there's too many weight cuts. Super featherweight must be 125. And then Banta mate must be 120. And for supermanagement. It's like 128. Yeah, there's weird numbers, right? Like, well, it's always 147 for some reason.

2:03:39But you don't think there's too many weight classes. Here's the deal. The thing about weight cutting. Weight cutting is so bad for you. It's so bad. But when there's only a few weight classes, there's massive advantages. And one of the best ways to disincentivize weight cutting, which is as bad as anything else to support. Might be as bad as the strikes that you take. With some guys. Like, I've seen guys that look like they're on desk door. But they are. Deaths door. Because they are. They are on desk door. And then 24 hours later, they have a cage fight, which is so nuts. And but the problem is if you're a guy and you know, your five foot nine and you want to fight in the welterweight division, can you make 55?

2:04:26Because if you can make 55, dude, it would be better for you. Because if you make 55, like those guys will be your height. Like you're you're dealing with. If you can come down to one. If you make 155, then those guys will probably be your size. Because if you just walk around like 180 pounds, you want to fight at 170. You're dealing with guys that are 200 plus. And then they suck down to 170 for a very brief amount of time. And then when you get in an octagon and they're fully hydrated, and you look at them, you're like, Jesus, there's so much bigger than 170. Yeah, the rehydration is crazy. So, but my point is, if there's multiple weight classes in between that gap, you wouldn't have to do that.

2:05:04I think there should be at the very minimum, a weight class every 10 pounds. And I don't think that's outrageous. And that's way less than boxing. But you would start at 125 like there's now, and 135, which already exists, 145 already exists. And then you go 55, which already exists. It's 65. You have 65? 65, 75, 85, 95, 205. Maybe 215, or just go right to 225, and then maybe even a 265. And then super heavyweight, which doesn't exist. Which is really wild. The heavyweight champion of UFC has to make weight. The heavyweight champion of UFC has to be 265 pounds or less. Why? Because there's a weight class.

2:05:45But why there's a super heavyweight? There's a super heavyweight. But it's never been used. Because there have ever been a 300 pound fighter. And the early days of the UFC for sure. Yeah, Paul Varland's, I think, was 300 pounds. One of the really early ones, when he fought Marco Huas. What was, what was Kerr? Was it Marker? Oh, Jesus, he was big. He was gigantic. Marker. How good was he? Oh, he's phenomenal. He was phenomenal. He was an elite wrestler. I thought that would be a good job. Who is on all the juicy juices? I looked at doing a film about him for a minute. There is one out. Documentary.

2:06:17Yeah, the smashing machine. The smashing machine? No, but I meant I meant ascripted. Oh, I know. Dwayne Johnson was interested in playing him for a minute. He's on the tour. Turn around him. They call him the smashing machine. Is that the best fight name ever? So good. I saw him submit a guy with this chin in the guy's eye socket. Oh, fuck. It was an early, early, early UFC. He mountained this guy, this guy, Dan Bulbisch. And he stuck his chin in the guy's eye socket. He just fucking drove his chin. Is that the only thing he was then? Is it now? I don't know. No one's ever done it before. But also no one's on the same amount of sauce.

2:06:55Yeah. His Kerr was. Kerr was, he looked like a superhero. He didn't even look like a real person. Yeah. He was a super nice guy, by the way. Sweet guy. I think it was a - I think he had the wrong woman in his life. Because they were called. That was a part of it. I can't believe that. Right? No, that - I think he's a pink guy. Yeah. I think he got hooked on paint pills. Interesting. Being an interesting film. I mean - Well, it would be interesting because I think - Have you seen the smashing machine? I haven't. I will. I'll watch it. That's why you don't know. He was addicted to paint pills. Yeah, and I knew that.

2:07:31I knew that. Yeah. That's what happened. So what happened to him is very related to your series. Yeah. I'm in a - I'm in a look at it. Because someone sent it to me. Dwayne sent it to me. He was obsessed with them. It's a - it's a very interesting story. Because at one point in time, when they were following him, they were following him because they thought they were following this unstoppable force in pride, which was the rival organization to the UFC. Yeah, that's him and his prime. Dude. What a star. What's fucking people up? Look at them down there. How much? That's what he thought. That's me interviewing them.

2:08:03What? Yeah. That's 1997. Oh, shit. Yeah. Like, do you remember that idea? Yeah, I do. Yeah. Where was that? I'm not sure. I only did like a few of these back then. I did it about 1997 to late in the 1998. And then it became - it wasn't cost effective. I was losing money and I was like, I did. It was fun. But wait, that was the UFC? Was that UFC? That was UFC? Yeah. I was the post -fied interviewer for the UFC from 97 to 98. And then I quit. And then I'm doing news radio. And then I wound up doing fear factor. And then Dana White contacted me and was getting me tickets to the fights. I was like, oh, it was amazing.

2:08:47The fights were in Vegas now. And because my friend Eddie and I, we'd always had this dream. Because we always love the sport. We were like, you know what would be amazing? If like these fucking billionaires just fell in love with the sport and dumped a bunch of money into it. And that's exactly what happened. It's exactly what happened. And so when they said that they had actually done that, I was like, oh, that's fantastic. And so I went and I did some press for them. And then I started asking Dana about fights. I was like, do you know about this guy? Do you know about this guy? He fights in Japan.

2:09:17He's like, he's like, he wants to commentary. Did he know that you knew so much about it? I don't know. I don't know what he knew. You know, he knew eventually. Once we started talking, I was saying I trained you two five days a week. And I'm obsessed with the sport. But what can we do with all that hair? You look great. You still look great, Joe. Thank you very much. But you look great there too. I should have looked. Different chapters. UFC 15. UFC 15. Oh, shit. I have a knife. But see that? Yeah. My theory being, you know, a big boxing fan, we need a couple of billionaires to buy boxing. And like it almost happened with the zone.

2:09:58I don't know if you follow like this guy, Lim Bolitnik, the, the, the, I didn't follow it. You know, a Russian oligarch basically gave Eddie Herne a shitload of money and said roll up boxing. And I always felt like one guy could have rolled up boxing. Because it's, you know, it's controlled by there's, there's Al Heyman, there's Bob Ayrham, and there's now the zone Eddie Herne. And it's so good. Goldemboy. Yeah, and golden boys lurking around. And then there's some, but it's, it's actually an asset that if you look at, you know, what it's all worth, it's, it's conceivable that one billionaire could come in.

2:10:39And for, I don't know what the number is, a couple of billion, buy out everyone, roll it up and create one international boxing league. Kind of like what UFC's done. It's hard. But if they did it, it's almost like boxing now. It's like, if there were four different NFL, football leagues. Right. So there wasn't one super, Lamberti trophy. There wasn't one UFC about how many, like people don't understand that. Like, right. Oh, I'm a UFC. I'm a, uh, uh, uh, uh, WBO, 140 pound, uh, champion. He's an IBF, 140 pound. What? Right. It's like if one person could roll it up, I've asked Dana several times to do it, to roll it up.

2:11:21How much would it cost? I mean, I would think you're pretty good at guessing, I would say, I would say to really roll it up and by all, by all the, by the FWBO, WAA, WBCs and get Eddie this, because I put Eddie in charge of that. I think he's the smartest guy in boxing, Eddie Hurn, the face of boxing at this point. Bob Erim, God love him. He's 90. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah, you gotta get Eddie. I don't know what Alhaman's experience is. What, what he really, um, Deilo Haya, I don't, Eddie Hurn's like to me the guy. I like him. He knows a lot about boxing. You, you take Eddie and Dana, partner him up, have already broken the whole deal, right?

2:12:05And probably 1 .2 billion buys the whole thing. And you then create a league, okay? Here's what I've picked. It's a good idea. And then how about this? You get, what's the biggest fight you could make in I UFC right now? The biggest fight. Or a huge fight. The biggest, well, Francis and Gano just left. That would be the biggest fight. If you could get Francis and Gano versus John Jones. John Jones, a Gano, right? So yeah, you take, I think that would be the biggest fight in history. What's your best venue? Is it Vegas? Does it matter? Mass and career. Vegas is kind of like Mass and Square, you can't go wrong with Vegas or Mass.

2:12:47Okay, so let's go, let's go to Mass and Square Garden just because I'm from New York. Right. Okay. So you have that fight. And let's think about the biggest fight in boxing right now. Is it, uh, I don't know. Chance Crawford talking about fighting canela Crawford canela. That would be the biggest. At 100 and what? 40 150? No, no, no, no, he's going to go up to 68. Okay, Crawford. I was talking about him. Yeah, you go up to 68. That's crazy. I have that, let's say that could happen. It's hard for me to imagine that happening, right? From 147, what did he just find? Yeah, 147. Mm -hmm. Okay. But he said he met canela.

2:13:27He's like, he's kind of my height. Yeah, okay. And he's like, he's just keeping me short. Yeah, he goes, just give me time to put on some weight. Okay. He goes, I wouldn't do it immediately. All right. He goes, but I'll like six months to really put, I don't know man. I mean, look, canela's a monster. He's a monster and his, his power will be the fact the guy knocked out covalive at 175. All right, so power is unstoppable. But. So let's say that fight happens. You've got canelo crofford at whatever weight. Right. And you've got, um, Jones. Ingano. Ingano, right? So you fill up the garden. I don't know who for it goes first.

2:14:00Oh my god, you have both fights in one night. Okay, the ring, the ring is an octagon. You have to UFC fight. You're there. Whole thing. Fight ends. The premier fight. The ring lifts up. The octagon lifts up. Flips over. Drops of boxing rings down. Yes. Drops of boxing ring down. And in one night, one league, Dana owns all of it. I pitched him this in Mexico. They had a drug. I'm not drunk. I'm like, you don't understand. And he's kind of going for it. But, but why not? Combat sports roll them up. And like, clean it up. Yeah, because boxing is fucked. Well, maybe the Saudis. I mean, who has more money than that?

2:14:47Nobody. And they're also doing a lot of boxing events now. Like, Tyson Fury versus Francis and Ghanu. Isn't that in Saudi Arabia? Yes. Yeah. So they've had some major fights in Saudi Arabia. And they have a lot of money. They could do that. So if someone's listening right now and they'll go, you know what? Hey, I like it. Have you seen the line in Saudi Arabia? Do you know what that is? Yes. So I was just, let's pull it up. I was just insane. I was just in Europe. And I had lunch with this guy, Saudi guy, who's, he's like, what do you do? He's like, well, I'm in charge of all the insurance for the line.

2:15:23And I'm like, so let's explain the line. I'm like, and then he started telling me like this, you think like, we think we know what money is. This is where the money is. So what this is is some mega city that's many miles long, that they're building that's all completely integrated, right? Yeah. So it's like no building. It's like no roads. Look at that. Read that. No roads, cars, or emissions that will run on 100 % renewable energy and 95 % of the land will be preserved for nature. People's health and well -being will be prioritized over transportation and infrastructure unlike traditional cities.

2:16:02That might be amazing to visit. But fuck the, it's in million people. It's in the middle, they're building this thing. And it's like, I don't know, look at them. Cool it looks. Oh, it's in the pictures. Little bit scroll down, Jamie, like those photos, like look at that. But you can see actual construct, they're building it now. Like I saw there's a whole city, you know, a couple of thousand workers living out there in these little air condition cubicles. This guy was showing me this sort of brings us. Look at this. It's amazing. That's insane. That's so star wars. They're building that. That is so insane looking.

2:16:37A revolution in civilization. Nine million, it might be dope to get a fucking spot there to visit. Well, it's like, like Dubai, right? Like we're Dubai. Remember when they were building the, the, look at that. Palm tree islands and everyone thought it was crazy. But it looks like inside. It's insane. Autonomous services. Look, you got drones that are fucking delivering you food. Bro, that might be sick. Look how high it is. That's how, look at it. It's higher than the Empire State Building. There's 200 miles wide. It's happening. Oh my god. And you're glass facade. I want to see the black mirror.

2:17:09Bro, this literally is science fiction. Science fiction turned reality. Saudi Arabia is going off. But what's what we were talking about before, if you have endless money, like with the nuclear submarines and, you know, the battleships, if you have endless money, you can get a lot of cool shit. Yeah, man. Yeah. But what's disturbing to you and I think to eye as people that you like to think about everybody, like, what is this? Where's this money coming from? Taxes. Why aren't we putting an enormous amount into new schools? Why aren't we putting an enormous amount into cleaning up communities and stopping crime?

2:17:46Why aren't we putting an enormous amount into healthcare? Because the companies that make the weapon systems are not going to let it happen. It's just this ecosystem of money. I think it was Truman. It was either Truman or Roosevelt who said, be careful because we're going to have an economy that is forever interconnected to our military. Was I some Howard? And this is the parting speech. Eyes on it, right? Yeah. We have an economy that is now linked to the industrial military industrial complex. So you can't separate them. You can't turn it off. Right, but I'm not even saying turn it off. Turn it down.

2:18:20I'm saying if you have enough money to send how many billion dollars to Ukraine, where was that money when we needed infrastructure in cities? Where was that money when we needed better education? But where was it? Where was it? But where was it? It's crazy that we prioritize certain things to the tune of just insane amounts of money. It's crazy. No one's asking this question. This is not even a commentary on whether or not we should be funding Ukraine. I'm just saying if you can do that, why haven't you looked at the state of emergency that exists in many of the cities in America? Oh, fuck yes.

2:18:58It's outrageous. It should be a statement. It should be on the front of everybody's lips. It should. And if you couldn't put 20 nuclear missiles with warheads, guidance systems, propulsion systems on a billion dollar submarine, 20 missiles, and put them on however many subs, one of which being detonated means we're done anyway. Why can't we take two or three of those fucking missiles and do something? What's the thing? According to what's going on in Ukraine because we don't have to, because they're doing both. They're doing both. They're funding Ukraine and they're building these weapon systems.

2:19:39I don't think it has to be an either or or you even have to have less of them. But it's just like, where did you guys get all this money? And why did you use it for stuff that we need? That's crazy. I mean, I understand that it's all inflation. I understand. I understand what the problems that it causes spending all this money and just printing all this money. I get it. But I'm saying like, maybe there would be an overall net benefit for the country and for all the human beings involved. How many less people would we have that were addicted to opiates? Are they had a better situation in their life?

2:20:10And how much of that could be fixed if we invested money in it? How many lives could we save? How many people's lives could we enhance? How many trajectories of their life could we completely change for the better forever? I bet a fuckload. I bet a fuckload. And if they just invested in people, the way invest in other shit. But I thought about that. Like, if you could actually see what it was like when we started, like the literal, if you get into the weeds on how we armed Ukraine, right? So you've got a bunch of 20 -year -old Ukrainian, whatever, kids, college students, electricians, plumbers, whatever they were doing, the trucks pull up and the equipment that gets presented to them.

2:20:54Night vision goggles, drones, drone technology, Kevlar body suits, the weapon systems, and the clothes, and the value of that. And you think about we're just, we're giving it. And okay, I understand why we're giving it. But think about those trucks rolling up and the amount of money being handed through equipment to young Ukrainian men. What comparable value or asset we're giving to young American men of the same age, it just doesn't happen. But we can do it. We can fly it all the way over there and deliver it. I mean, the amount of money we're putting into the hands of all these young soldier slash men from Ukraine compared to what that money could do in our cities.

2:21:45It's worth, I think, talking about. It is worth talking about. It's not some radical socialist idea that we should fix cities. It's in everybody's best interest. Also, just as for the human race, it's in everyone's best interest. The world would be better off if there was less people who were losing. What's the best way to stop that? Give them a start, a better start to their life. So what's the best way to do that? You have to improve upon communities. Somehow, I'm not an expert in this, but I recognize that's a giant issue. I don't know what you would do, but I would imagine there's got to be some strategies to improve things.

2:22:20Well, schools are good. Yeah. Like schools, parks, community centers, counseling, places where people can have healthy food, school safe, and teachers. And teach them things. Have them have places where people can teach them whatever it is. Things outside of the town of play music, martial arts, teachers, the more people can learn, they have opportunities to do things. The better off everyone's going to be, the more safe they feel. The better off everyone's going to be, the more human beings that have a better shot at having an enjoyable life, the better off we'll all be. Go Joe. But the fact that we don't think about it that way, everybody just goes about their business and thinks about themselves, but then complains about all these problems that are happening in our cities.

2:23:06Well, you've got a Ukraine flag and you're fucking Twitter bio. That's wild. It's wild. It's weird. I mean, and like I just go back to the time in Pearl Harbor when I was getting toured around that sub and I'm just trying to count how, I'm trying to do the math in my head. Yeah. How much does it, yes, it's beautiful. It's just, Are you going to do a piece on this? Are you going to do, Yeah, so I want to do, I want to, so then it starts getting like, you go down the rabbit hole of it and you look up the 10 biggest, you know, arms companies, weapons manufacturers and you start looking up the CEO, pay packages and like you start getting a sense of it.

2:23:51Like it gets pretty dark, pretty fast. Yeah, look up like, you know, just Satan's real. I mean, it's, well, I mean, it also, this whole conversation started when I'm like, well, okay, I learned this about Big Pharma because okay, you know, I've heard conspiracy theories on Big Pharma and be careful. But until I really went deep with Purdue, I never really, I understood it intellectually, but I never viscerally felt it. Like, shit, this is real. This isn't some like left wing conspiracy theory that there's greedy people out there manipulating the FDA. No, this is actually fucking real. And they got away with it.

2:24:30And they got away with it. And I'm not, I'm not like saying that like, like every, I have, I support the fuck out of our troops. And I have. And I do. Like my father was a Marine. The time I've spent working in that space, 100 % yes support. However, when I see all the other people that are making money off of the backs of like, at the end of the day, what I observe when I went to Iraq was not big technology out there and saving the day. These were 25 year old men, like kicking indoors, fighting a war that nobody cared about back home anyway, because it was over there. So when I see like, all this money and all this tech being thrown into systems that like, I don't know, are we ever gonna really use this shit?

2:25:26Because if we do, it's game over anyway. I see all these people making so much money. I'm like, this is this feels like we're in the same waters that we were swimming in when we were together with Purdue Farma. Yeah. So yeah, I would like to do something in this space. Well listen, painkiller's fucking fantastic. It's really good. Like everything you do, you've done so many fucking great movies man. Loan survivors incredible, you know, you're the shit. So, appreciate you very much. Thank you for being here and ladies and gentlemen, please watch it. It's on Netflix. It's fucking great. Fucking thank you.

2:26:03Alright, thank you.