#2034 - Jeremy Jones

24:09And you know, you make a call and you make a decision if you're going to drive across. Now that was a few years into it. But at first, it was kind of like, I did some dumb shit. You know, like went in with like a mechanic shirt on, you know, like all green stuff. Well, you know, I, you know, color of money didn't give me going for pool. That was a little bit before. But I did watch it. You know, so I kind of felt like you can be a hustler. Yeah, yeah. But immediately went away from that. A lot better just going to say, Hey, we like to play. You know, and they usually get one of their better players and you're hitting every little town.

24:43Yeah. You know what I mean? So you're betting on yourself a little more often. And it's easy to tell pretty quickly. Unless you catch one of them smart guys that know how to stall. You know, they're hustling you. You know what I mean? Right. So that's happened. Did you encounter a lot of those? A lot of attempts. You know, but normally the hustler would come up asking for a big spot. You know, the smart hustler was the one that could come in and start playing even and then figured out from there. You know, it's just a little easier to get down. You know, and I knew a lot of those guys that, you know, were there to win.

25:16Now, when you would go to a new pool, would you try to make a friend and maybe give him a gapper if you steered you in the right direction? Yeah, that was kind of touchy. I mean, you might, you quick, learnly quick, you know, quickly that if the. The same guy that's going to give you information is probably talking to someone else too. Right. You know, kind of thing. Yeah. So, you know, best off to be able to evaluate a room pretty quickly. And it's amazing from coast to coast how common people are in the pool room. And when you were doing this, did you realize like how wild it is to be a young free man just travel in the country gambling on pool?

25:57Did you realize like how wild that is? Absolutely. I got reminded of it a lot of times just because you get stuck in situations and you so you get to know people and they kind of remind you of it. You know, we're in Chattanooga one time. We were stuck for like two weeks because it was the blizzard of 91. I don't know if you remember it. It was just freaking crazy. People died in the mountains because of it and all that. But so we're stuck in the and we're basically walking to the pool room, sliding to the pool room, whatever every day. So you kind of think about it. And then you that my friend that was with me, he finally had to end his road trip to go back and go to school.

26:29So that reminds me of what I'm doing a little bit. Right. You know, that I'm out there just kind of going from place to place single just playing all the pool I can. And you know, it was great. Yeah. Pretty special. It's romantic. Yeah. It's like it really is. I mean, how many movies are there about pool hustlers or or that type of person who's just living this. I mean, it's that's what was so attractive to it to me was not just watching people that played really well. It was the culture. It was a culture of people that just weren't going to fit in with nine to five. It was not an option. Yeah.

27:09These guys were wild people and they there are a lot of them were gambling addicts and a lot of them were really fucking smart guys. And they were really good pool players. Oh, yeah. And they just couldn't deal with regular world. They had to get to a pool. Let's get to a fucking pool or any pool players around here. And they didn't give a fuck about it. But he wasn't a pool player. Yeah, they're comfortable. You know what I mean? Yes. And they were just around these people. And every day would be the same kind of conversations. Like this guy could get the eight. And it was always like you don't have heart.

27:40That was New York. Right. Oh my god. New York was so much talk with so little like real high gambling that I saw. But I saw a few I told you about water dog. Yeah. And he played this guy. George the Greek. That was one of the craziest things I've ever seen. I've talked about it before. So in brevity he would do heroin in the bathroom. Come out. Sit on a chair for 20 minutes. Just like gone and then couldn't miss. It was wild. Yeah. On a what you would call like a gaff table. It was a very tight table. And the shims were all fucked up. It wasn't perfect. Right. If you hit the point on the way in, weird shit could happen.

28:15You could hit the ball well and it not go. Yeah. But he was firing him in like it was a swimming pool. Oh yeah. He was firing him in. It was like a roll right there. His stroke was so pure. It was so pure. It was so wild to watch. He was just running out. I think he might he might run like 75 and out or something like that. Like something like 300 on a regular table. We just watching to it. It was like watching him just run ball after ball. Why George couldn't do shit. He beat him a couple of times like that with different games too. I think they played some one pocket to George loved one pocket.

28:48But he would gamble high. He would like to be the one guy that would gamble thousands of dollars. And then there was this one dude named international Sal. International Sal made his money from American Express card scam way back in the day. They would get the carbons. And then they would make duplicate cards and buy a bunch of shit and then sell it. And he was he would go to the pool hall and they would bring him bags of cash just bags of cash. And he was just there all day gambling losing. Yeah, well, he was probably one of the few gamblers there. I mean, I love New York. I love the guys around New York.

29:26But it is more of like a lot of shit talking really. And not as much action maybe. It's interesting that that's the case because you would think of New York. You would think of like wild people crazy. They're out there on the streets. They're gambling. Yeah, it's almost like they've been doing it longer though. Like they're smart. You know what I'm saying? Like I mean, they want to win. I mean, they want the edge. And you know, that's another part of it that's always awesome. You know, when you're in there trying to match up everyone's trying to get a little edge. Yeah, it's just almost like human instinct to try and get a little edge, you know.

29:57Did you read running the table? The kid delicious book? No, I haven't read it completely. Yeah, it's a really good book. He was a great guy. The guy who wrote it. What is it named John Worthy? I believe. Fucking just did a beautiful job like painting that romantic. That's a painting that romantic story of them doing the same thing like traveling the road and playing pool. And I know there was all this talk about turning that into a movie. And I think it would have been a great move. I think if the right person got a hold of it, it really understood what you were talking about. Yeah, Danny used to talk about it.

30:30Yeah, possibly becoming a movie. So I know they were trying to do something with it. But then they died. You know, so I don't know what they would I don't know. I mean, you would have to get someone to play him that looked like him. I don't know if anyone could ever act like him. No, he was awesome. No, I can credible. One time we're in Toledo at the glass city open. This episode is brought to you by Life Lock. Tax season is already stressful. You shouldn't have to worry about identity theft on top of everything else. And trust me, it's a big worry, especially since during tax season, your sensitive info does a lot of traveling to places you can't control.

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33:37And sports illustrated was following them. And me and him are playing like the third round the winners. And I got him like 10 to 6 racing 11 and he comes back and beats me, but the shot he made to win at Hill Hill out of the pocket. Like you know how you set the ball up in the middle of the table and you put the cue ball in the corner and you try to follow it in sometimes. I mean he stabbed his ball in but he gave the sports illustrated photographers the Hulk. I mean it was great. Right in sports illustrated too. Yeah, I love that guy. He was incredible. Yeah, there's a few really good books on pool playing off the rails and other one.

34:21Really good book on pool and Tony and Tony. Yeah, Tony. But that just romantic vision of this person doing like the craziest kind of way to make a living. You're making a living off of your skills and you're just gambling random people in pool halls and the people there are looking out for people like you. Because they know people like you come into town. Yeah, but they kind of like it too. You know what I mean? I mean it's more like we call it complimentary action these days when you become kind of a name people want to play and they play like Shane. He goes to these places. He'll play 50 a set.

35:04There was a guy like 10 ,000 playing 50 a set. There was a guy who was really good who was from I believe he was Montreal. Paul. Portier. Yes, Paul Portier. Paul Portier came through executive billions and robbed a bunch of people. Really? Yeah, that was fun to watch. Well, that was fun to watch. Because he wasn't a big gambler per se. You know what I mean? Oh yeah. He was so good though. He was stealing with some of these guys. He's a really good teacher up there now. I think that's what he mainly does. Teach his pool. Yeah, he shot my friend Johnny's nuts. It was beautiful to watch though. I mean the guy just watching someone who's just like just elegantly moving that ball around the table.

35:44Perfect position. He was kind of an elegant kind of guy anyway. Yeah, really nice. Real nice, real clean. Yeah, it seemed like Jackie Gleason. There he is. There he is. It was beautiful mustache and hell of a player. Yeah, he actually lived in Texas for quite some time. Oh, did he really? Yeah, he lived in the Dallas area. So he was the first pro that I ever saw that came through executive. Oh wow. The first like real legitimate pro. And that was early on I was just learning pool. Just learning pool. Yeah, well he was pretty solid fundamentally and stuff. You know, like kind of critique that. So we go on to watch.

36:21But he was kind of like just a 9 ball player. So not to pick on Paul of course, but when you're on the road. You learn to play everything, huh? You learn you got to play. Yeah, I mean, you know, you're going to come into some areas where they just don't play 9 ball. How many times you've gone to a place that they only play bank pool? Well, I'll tell you one place. I was in a Cleveland. So I was on the road with it, which is right next to Kentucky. Well, this is North. Oh, how's North? Oh, Cincinnati. Cincinnati. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I'm trying to think as Kentucky's supposed to be the bank place.

36:55Well, well, get back to that one. I was going to talk about it. But yeah, I went through like a. Contents all over Kentucky. A lot of small towns. That's the only. Now I wouldn't say that's the only thing they would play. But that's the only thing they played me without knowing me. Oh, okay. So like Mount Sterling. I don't know if the pool. I don't know how old this pool table was, right? These pool balls were sold. They were like snooker ball size. They're worn out. Oh my God. It was unbelievable how they're like BBs. I mean, these balls right? No, this guy has been racking the balls for 60 years getting a quarter in this pool.

37:29What? 60 years for the gamblers. They're playing like I'm playing like 300 a game. These guys played two, three, four hundred games. It gets a quarter or a rack for 60 years. Have you ever get a raise? Did he ask for a raise? I don't know. I was only there like two days. So I don't know. Did I get a dollar? No, he was happy as hell. I mean, he looked just one of the nicest guys in there. Just like me in there. Yeah, yeah. But one time I was in Cleveland and I was on the road with a friend of mine who's black guy, right? So he's going to take me to these spots where the black guys play mainly, like in that area.

38:02So I walk into this pool room in Cleveland called Carnegie Billiards. And the whole area is more black area, right? So we walk into the pool room and there's a sign says no nine ball out, no recreational pool out. So they had eight, eight, nine foot center, be your table and you couldn't take your date in there. It was all action. Yeah. So the guy, he's like, you're young. You're a recreational player. Yeah, no recreational player. Yeah, yeah. Holy shit. Yeah. You know, you'll see those no gambling signs. That's a no, no gambling sign. Yeah, exactly right. Exactly right. I love that. No, it was awesome.

38:41Oh, no, it was awesome. So the guy that ran the joint was called Shorty and he was one of the younger guys in the place. He's probably 35, you know, and I'm, this is 1994. So I'm 23. So he says, you're kind of young. He says, I know you want to play nine ball. He said, I'm a let one set for 500. You know, he just first, almost first thing he says to me. So because he knows the guy I'm with. So we're there for action, you know. And so I beat him and said, and I'm also only nine ball played, but I stayed there two weeks playing those guys. And all they play is one pocket banks or banners. That's it.

39:13Wow. Yeah. Three cushion billions. Three cushion billions. Yeah. Yeah, there were a couple really great players in there that, I mean, they kind of played giving some handicaps and the three cushion, but it was mainly one pocket in banks. That's a wild game, three cushion billions. It's one that just for whatever reason, it's really hard to find. It never took off for some strange reason in America. Or it did at one point in time. It was very popular, right? Yeah, it was popular, but it was more like exhibition and the tournaments just didn't pay that much. It's almost like the old school players back in the day.

39:47They didn't make their money off the tournaments. They made their money one and some tournaments and then get sponsored and travel in the country for Brunswick doing these exhibitions, you know, like Moscone and Karris and all those kind of guys. But now it's starting to take off a little bit because Karris is so huge in Korea again. Really? Yeah, big money they're playing for. Really? I mean, you know, not like golf money, but I mean, 100 ,000 for first, 150 ,000 for good. Wow. Yeah, big money, yeah. No kidding. And who's putting these events on? A couple Korean companies over there because it's always been big in Korea, right?

40:18It just kind of got rekindled again. So now all around the world really, they're having bigger tournaments. That's awesome. They're playing for 30s and 40s. That's good for first, you know, 16 players. Yeah, well, I'd love that there's so many events now, you know, because I watch so many of them on YouTube. Like if you enjoy watching pool, I just have a box of AcuStats VHS tapes. It was like this, like a washing machine box filled with Pat Fleming's tapes. And I got rid of all of them now because you just fucking get everything on YouTube. Yeah, absolutely. Everything's on YouTube. Well, I asked this question, you might know, is there any more stream sport in the world than pool?

40:58It's streamed constantly. I mean, but so many different ones as well. So many different ones, right? All these different pool rooms like Oscars pool room, hard times in Sacramento just streamed that tournament. I was watching Tyler Styler in Shane play. Yeah, let alone great players. I mean, the next level down, other tournaments, I mean, just, yeah, right. It's amazing to me. I don't know of other sports. I don't watch them like that. I mean, I'm a sports guy, but maybe, maybe what you're into some type of MMA or some type of martial arts or something, maybe that's streamed a lot. Did they don't really stream that often?

41:31I mean, there's only like big events that stream. There's UFC, there's Bellator, there's, I guess you could probably get PFL on some sort of streaming device too, right? It has to be, right? And then one championship, but then you get that streaming too. But I feel like there's so many multiple pool events that are happening like simultaneous stuff. Oh, platform after platform. Yeah, I mean, there's a ton. I mean, there's no more. I don't think that I've ever heard of or seen. I think it's the internet. I think the internet sort of rekindled it in some people. And I also think it got a boost during the pandemic because people started playing.

42:09Oh, yeah. Yeah, I was talking to you about pool table sales and what happened during the pandemic. It was through the roof. And along with that, I mean, you're going to just get a percentage that like it, you know, and once they start liking it, they're going to watch it. So if I can't get it. So if I can't get it, right? It gets really good now. It's actually a legitimate career path. But when you are doing it, you're just a wild person. You're just out there doing wild person things. Well, you kind of made steps for me. I mean, I kind of, like I said, I never knew you could make a living or play good pool.

42:40And then it kind of, all right, I can make a pool. I'm actually making cash money, you know, pretty good overall for the year. And then I started to play in some smaller. I never really had a clue of playing professionally still. It kind of crept up on me. When did that happen? Well, 1995 and 2006, I was a Johnny Archer kind of just told me, he said, hey, you need to start playing the next level. You said, you're good enough players where you should be. It just depends on if that's what you want to do. And so I still gambled afterwards, kind of slowed down a little more of the gambling, started to go to tournaments, traveling all over the world, country playing tournaments.

43:18But I started to realize I really like the tournaments. It's a different pressure only. No one you can't just flip the coin again. Yeah. So, especially because the first year, I think I played seven tournaments and I might have one -on -one match. Real. And I could beat most of the guys I was losing to now. The first draw was hard because I wasn't a seated player. So I was a friend, you know, Lewa, Johnny, you know, came down the board, all those guys. But on the loser side, I lose matches to guys. I'm supposed to beat a lot of times, but I was a different nervous. So I was really intrigued on getting through that, you know, like getting to where that wasn't a problem, whether or not.

43:57It's a different nervousness than gambling. Oh, 100%. Yeah. Gambling, I don't recall ever starting off nervous. Only take that back. Now, if I only had a couple barrels and I was on the road, you know what I mean? And that's happened several times where, you know, let's just imagine now this is a true story even smaller probably. But let's just say I had 100 bucks and that sounds crazy to be a thousand miles away, you know, he gets 100 bucks. And the guys trying to say, come on, I'll play some 100 game one pocket, right? And I'm trying to get him to play for 50. So I can have two barrels, you know, and he's just insisting we play for 100.

44:34So now I'll start off a little nervous knowing I got one barrel and if I quit after one game, it looks real bad as far as the action. And, you know, so, but I've had to do that a few times because percentages say I'm supposed to beat this guy, you know, and pump up. Oh, yeah, percentages say. Yeah, but I mean, you know, that's the difference. But I mean, overall gambling, I played races to five for five thousand. I played the biggest set I've ever played was like 38 Gs, but I wasn't nervous at all. Really? No, I mean, I knew the person I was playing. We probably had history of playing before, you know, I mean, I knew what to expect.

45:10You know, generally it was one pocket more. Just wasn't as much big nine ball back in the day, you know, unlike today, but, um, but yeah, the tournament is totally different. And like you go up the scale, like Moscone Cup is off the charts. That's why it's so impressive watching someone just break and run five racks in a row and a tournament. That's a perfect precision because you know, the control that's involved in all those little fine movements. Oh, yeah. But that's the thing though, when they heat up a little bit, you know what I'm saying? They start to forget about it a little bit more. They start to play better, but even the fillers and fetters and all them, you know, and they'll tell you, but they're nervous.

45:51I mean, you can see it out there, you know, like you know, they're nervous, but they're battling through it. Yeah. I could imagine poor Max at 180 beats per second. He was pissed, too. 180 beats per minute is so much. That's like, that's like a full on sprint. No, it was way up there. And there was somebody I can't remember, because maybe it was Shane that was like 90 or 85, like way, way down there. Shots that hearing aid off. I know. It's strong. That's such a great thing to be able to do to shut the world out. It's not a great thing to be deaf, obviously, but to have that with pool, you know, it's almost like it's, he's like, it's like, you know what a sensory deprivation tank is?

46:32Mm -hmm. I'll show you one. We have one out here. You lay in saltwater and you float and the water is the same temperature as your skin. You close the door, total sions, total darkness. And in the absence of sensory input, your brain becomes like supercharged. You can think about things better. You see everything more clearly. And you start to almost achieve like a psychedelic state while you're doing this. And the benefit of not having sensory input is the other senses for whatever, or your mind rather, is more free. There's less resources that are hogging up. It's, you know, it's, it's energy.

47:10I want, I imagine that what's going on with him. He just shuts that hearing aid off and he can probably just completely concentrate on the game. Well, that and the one I thought about with him because he's always been talked about with practice so much, right? His regimen was so, you know, long, right? Yeah. But I mean, to be able to shut him off when you're practicing and being in the poor room. You know what I mean? Like, really get involved in yourself. That's the big deal with most guys at practice, even the ones that want to get bothered a lot, you know what I mean? Right. Distraction, the whatnot.

47:40Probably also just his situation when people, he was there, people just left him alone. They kind of knew it. I was hanging out with Max Everley and we were at this pool hall in Las Vegas that this Italian guy owned. This guy had the best food of any pool hall I've ever been to in my life. I mean, legit Italian food. It was sensational. He had lasagna and lingueini with clams and corn and bread. The same Vegas? Yeah. This guy was from Italy and he would bring over food from, he was like a chef in Italy. He would bring over his food from Italy like imported mortadella and all this. He was insane that the food was so good.

48:19But anyway, this is while Shane was still on top of the world. This is what he's doing the tar matches and all those things. And we're playing, it's like a Friday night before a UFC. And Shane is practicing by himself for like five hours. Just five hours, stroking in balls and getting perfect positions, setting things up again, and it's setting things up again for five hours by himself. Didn't talk to anybody. Just firing balls in. Well, that's the amazing thing too. You ever see him just sit on the back rail with the cue ball and set up the long shot, hitting it a hundred miles an hour. Well, try doing that for like three or four hours straight, hitting the ball that hard.

48:59You know, swinging that, I mean, you'll be wore out. I mean, he'll be, he'll win the hot seat at the US Open and be the first guy practicing, not even play till the next day, you know, be there eight hours, nine hours, getting ready. Next day wakes up. There's the same thing eight or nine hours before he's got to play the big final. Wow. Oh, no, he's sick. He's a sicko. For sure. But I mean, it shows though. It shows. Yeah. I mean, under, you know, I don't know if there's anyone better in the tough shot ever. I mean, I know Phil is awesome in everything, but the true tough shot. I mean, under the biggest pressure, maybe Shane's the best.

49:35Well, he's certainly in the argument as a grace of all time. I mean, you got a handful of people, effort in and so many different people. We were talking about boost de Monte when he was in his prime. But the thing about all those guys, like, like when you go back to like the early days of tournament play and Efron Reyes and the Filipino invasion, like that was all gambling. It was all gambling. Oh, 100%. One of the most exciting parts of the game of pool is this illegal aspect of it. Well, it's like such a, it's not illegal everywhere, but in a lot of places. Well, as soon as someone bets on the side, it becomes illegal, I think is how it works.

50:17Oh, well, that's illegal every single time. Yeah, right, right. But it means that someone bets on the side in Texas. Yeah, that's a former racketeering or something. Yeah, something like that. Yeah, but Efron, you know the story. You could even make a bet with your friends. Like, what if you and I were playing? No, me and you are supposed to be able to play and we could bet a million. Okay. And it wouldn't be a problem. But Jamie couldn't bet on us. That's, I think that's something. That's, yes. Or if there's someone taking a percentage of some sort, you know, kind of like the poker, y 'all got the legal poker on here, right?

50:45I do not know. I don't play poker. Yeah, well, they got the legal poker rooms, but they charge like pool time, you know, like by the hour. So they don't take any money out of the pot, you know, yeah. Interesting. Yeah, so it's legal now. That makes sense. Yeah. That's not a bad compromise. Yeah, that's okay. But I feel like not being able to bet on your friend is un -American. I, we're definitely not texting, that's for sure. You know what I'm saying? Like, if you're gambling with somebody and you're playing this, someone I'm like, I got money on Jeremy. If I, and if I say that, that's illegal.

51:15If like, you were just making an agreement. I think so. Yeah. I think so. That sounds so crazy. I'm pretty sure. That sounds so crazy. It happened once in Houston, like right before I started, actually a couple times, but once in Houston, I had a pool room that I frequented, like a year or two before I really started going there right while I was young. They didn't take the guys that were playing. They took the guys that were all betting on the side. Oh my God. Yeah, is that crazy? Yeah, meanwhile, how many people are out there getting robbed? For real robbed? Yeah, right. How many people could you bet a rest instead of like finding people or gambling the wrong way?

51:50Yeah, they're all, there's a lot of those, right? Yeah, it's just, it's such a, like, and, you know, like I said, those two books are great, like, depicting the romantic aspect of it, playing off the rail and running its able. But to actually live that life, to actually be, like, when did you, when did you come off that life? Like, when did you stop, like, traveling constantly? Like town to town, kind of thing. Yeah, probably around 1998, 1999, I really jumped up in the rankings. I started being able to get like real sponsors, paychecks, stuff like that from sponsors. But I still didn't quit gambling.

52:29I still played plenty of people. It was just kind of like, it wasn't spent a lot of time traveling, you know, like waiting around. Like, you might go somewhere. If you know it's a good spot, you know, like somebody sent you there, hey, they're gambling, you know. But it might take a little time, get to know you, what not, before they're comfortable. You might stay a week, two weeks, three weeks at a place. Was there the fear that you entering into professional tournaments would knock your gambling? It's people who know that you buy this time, people, everyone knew. I mean, you know, it didn't take long before a few trips.

52:59I went by my middle name. Yeah, because there were magazines that, you know, you could see what's going on around the country. Right. You just might not get a picture or a video of it or whatever. So you start to hear names, you know. So like, first time I went to California, I did that actually. And, you know, it worked out nice. What did you do? You just use a different name? Well, it's a funny story. And I think he can laugh about it now. But, you know, Marcus Shimades, right? Mm -hmm. From Sweden. So there was a guy that was staking him. And a lot of other great players. And he was big action.

53:33The guy was. And I knew Marcus was out there. And so I'm in hard times. And I think I told you about this. Yeah, they would keep. But the only two people in the hard times that knew me. All right. Was Keith. And Jose Perica. All right. So everyone else didn't know who I was. So Marcus Shimades standing next to two other guys. That I know play, but it won't play. Kind of thing. So I go up and I ask those two guys. I was like, you know, what do you all want to play some, you know, 50 or 100 LSATs in 9ball, you know. Knowing Marcus is going to just jump right on me. You know what I mean? Like he's right next to him.

54:09So long story short, that happened. And, but I introduced myself as Tyler, my middle name, you know, like I just did, you know. So we start playing. He beats me a set for 100 playing even I quit. He offers me the eight beats me a set for 200. I quit. Now he offers me the seven. So now his state course starts coming over near me. Because Marcus is just stealing this little 4500 and got none to a state course. You know what I mean? This is like pocket money. So now his state course comes over and he's kind of interested in the game. And he says he'll give you to seven, but you got a bet. You know, everything you got.

54:48I got like 25 or 30 ,000 on me. You wouldn't know it, but I do. You know, so I can't pull out 25 or 30 ,000. They're going to know something's up. So me and my buddy, we just talked for a second. So we end up pulling out like 4500. So we play for a little bit. And we're, now we're playing seven ahead. We were playing a race of seven for the 100 and 200, right? So now he thinks he's stealing. Because I mean the way I played in the other two sets, you know what I'm saying? So he just comes out like gangbusters. He's got like four games down. I'm talking about my buddy. I'm like, man, this is sick.

55:22We're going to get beaten this spot right here. I'm getting the seven, you know? So finally I get a shot. And I start to run out. Now I'm starting to run out. And so his state course is there. And he says, man, ain't this something. You know what I mean? He says, we thought we were stealing. It looks, it looks real bad now. So, so I beat him that set. So now at hard times you've been there, right? L .A. Yeah, Delflore? Yeah. So they got the player side, right? With the tight tables and they got the looser tables. Well, he had me on the looser tables thinking, you know, I'm just a sucker, you know?

55:52So he says, the state course says, double the bet. And we'll give you the eight on the tight tables. Right? So this is like really good for me. You know, now I'm getting a spot on even a tougher table. So I beat him that set. But during that second set, a friend of mine had built me a queue and sent it out to the guy that ran the tournaments in L .A., right? So I'm going by Tyler. And this guy walks up and he says, real loud. He says, are you Jeremy Jones? Oh, no. He says, if you are, I got a queue for you, you know? And I was like, no, I ain't Jeremy. Because I'm in the middle of this $9 ,000 set plan, you know?

56:31So I said, no, I ain't Jeremy Jones. You know, and I just sent him on his way. And then the next day when I came in, Mark knew who I was. And you know, everyone spilled the beans kind of thing. Yeah. I had to go tell the guy, all right, that's my queue and everything. So it was mad at you? No, no, not at all. He understood. It's kind of like a funny story around there now, I think. But Marcus was mad at me for a little while. Yeah, that's why I was asked. Oh, yeah, because he was European, you know? And it was just kind of like, you know, if someone got me like that, you know, it's going to sting, but it's going to be more like, all right, two -shay kind of thing.

57:02You know what I'm saying later on, you know, we're going to laugh about it and stuff. But it took, it's almost like if you first beat effort, he walks by you, but he don't say much to you for about a month or two. Oh, yeah, he's got to let that wear off a little bit. But it took Marcus probably about a decade before it was bad, yeah. So when he beat you the first two sets even, were you hustling a little? Well, I might not have put forth my best effort, but he played real good, you know what I mean? He was like, all right, let me pick up this four, five hundred. Well, you purposely trying to set something up?

57:35Well, I thought, you know, I'm definitely not trying to win for 200. You know what I mean? Like his steak horse, who now is actually after that trip, became real good for in a minute. You know, at that time, he was known, you could beat him out of, you know, 40 and 50, you know, 1 ,000, right? So you're not going to start off doing anything like that for 200 or so. So when you first start playing, you play good, but you're not really barren down. Right. Right. So you're showing him that you can play a little, but you might miss some shots that... Plus I want to see him play. Right. You know, I heard the name, kind of wanted to really see, because eventually to beat him out of the real money is going to be playing even.

58:13Right. You know what I mean? Because he's another great player. So that eventually was going to happen, but Marcus and the Pevna leave the country for his visa, got shortened up or something like that. He actually ended up leaving the next day, but I stick stuck around for about a month. In these other countries, is there a lot of gambling going on? Obviously in the Philippines there is. But is there a lot of gambling going on in these other countries where all these players are emerging? Some of Asia, for sure. Southeast Asia, especially, I think. You know, Thailand, like you said, Philippines and Indonesia.

58:45You're up here and there. Not a whole lot. Not a whole lot at all. And I think it's more of the stakeholder kind of situation. It's just not the mentality. You know, there's not a stakeholder. You know, people aren't just thinking, oh, let me go put somebody else in action for thousands of dollars in a good half. You know, it's just not your everyday thing. One of the fun parts of American pool culture, the stakeholders. Oh, absolutely. There's some of the biggest characters. Yes. Wild, crazy people with tons of money. Yeah, and how they got it. Yeah. Yeah. And they're interested in gambling on pool.

59:18Yeah, I've been paid in buried money quite a lot. A lot of few times. Really? Oh, yeah. It stinks. It stinks. Oh, yeah. Not nice. Wow. The whole car. Stomp. Really? Oh, yeah. Real bad. Do you think there was like bodies next to the mine? I don't think so. Why don't you smell? Just mildew and shed. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I'm talking about, yeah, I think this has been there a long time. 30 years. Yeah. There was a guy one time where in South Carolina there was another place that I frequented. And the summers, especially because we gamble to golf. But this guy Frank, and he was a great, great guy.

59:56And he was coming in overalls. Didn't know he had a penny. But he staked a lot of players. And he did a lot for the pool community. So he comes in one morning because we'd all meet at the pool room about 10 am. And we'd all make a golf game. And we go out to the golf course, gamble golf. Come back to the pool room and make pool games, right? It was awesome. I mean, the whole summer was like this. So this Frank comes in one morning. And he looked real upset. And he never looked upset. Always happy. Even if he lost, he was happy. And so I said, Frank, what's wrong? You okay? So I come out my back door and I saw one of my bushes dug up today.

1:00:36So one of his sons that is kind of a little detached at times from the family. For one reason or another, he let us stay there. And he said he knew it right. It was a $30 ,000 bush. Oh yeah. Yeah. And so he took it like a grain of salt. He was more of a discipline. It was kind of like a disappointed father kind of thing more than upset. And plenty of money, you know. Yeah. So, but it's amazing what people do with their money. Yeah, that's a hundred Biden type move. Probably got it very little better. He needs something. Yeah, but I mean, digging that money up for a need. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's a, it's just the kind of people that would go to these places and look forward to matching these guys together.

1:01:26Like that was always the, it's a famous story that's in the running the table book about Chicago Billiards. Did you ever go to that place? Is it in Connecticut? I don't think so. Chicago Billiards was owned by this one eccentric millionaire who would encourage gambling. And if no gambling was going on, he would put money up for guys to play. He just wanted action constantly. They had dorms there. Like people with, they had beds in the back. People with sleep there. Cows. As it come in, stay for days. Oh yeah. Well, that's, you know, just like poker games, you've used to had a big underground poker scene.

1:02:02And the same thing with pool rooms. If you have a guy that owns the poker room that's action, that's the best games. Yeah. I mean, they're putting the money back in play and the same thing with the pool room. The pool room owner's involved. Yeah. I mean, you know, he's going to have players around. He's going to have options usually. And that's some of the best spots for action. I remember I was watching this guy play. And he just got off the phone. And he said, my wife just told me if I don't come home now, I'm getting divorced. And he goes, rock the balls. I've heard that in so many words before.

1:02:33It was, but he said it out loud. He was rock the balls. Yeah. He was like, we're going to keep playing. Oh yeah. Because I'm getting divorced. Not the first time she's told that probably. I mean, it's just too addictive. Those places are too addictive. I would get, I couldn't wait to get back to them. When I'd go on the road and I do stand up, I couldn't wait to come back. Get to the pool room. What's going on? Oh yeah. Who's playing who? What's happening? Yeah. You know, a lot of truck drivers that played, you know, got to play all over in different places. But the one thing about pool, you really, even if you don't run the game, it's hard to leave totally the game.

1:03:07I mean, it's just, it's good to hit the ball well. Yeah. It feels good, you know what I mean? It's just like golf they say when you hit it well, it feels good, right? Have you ever considered writing down some of your road stories? Oh yeah. Putting it like Danny DeLiberto has a book out. Yeah, there's a good friend of mine, Harley Bryan. I think I was telling you a little bit about him the other day, but he's like a legend guy. And I tell him all the time I might, I mean, this is like the best book ever if you just tell, you know, tell your stories, you know, he was raised on a riverboat. His, like, porkeys, you know what I mean?

1:03:41Yeah. You know, like that's what his dad on two open Jacksonville, the only two, you know, like just the stuff he was raised around. And then he was a great pool player around, you know, Jimmy Care, some Moscone and all those guys. He's actually, he's 84 now, I think. Yeah. But yeah, it'd be good to put the pool stories down. There's a lot of them. That's one of my favorite expressions. It's a riverboat gambler. Oh yeah. Those type of people, I always want them riverboat gamblers. Yeah. Wild people. People around the water. I mean, I don't know what it is. I mean, I'm from there too, bait down, like right on it.

1:04:13What do you think it is? It's a very carefree kind of, you know, once you don't bait for a week, kind of figure out you ain't got to that often again. I mean, I don't know, I don't know what the mentality is, but. But why is gambling so prevalent in the South? That's what's fascinating to me. Like, why is it so a part of the culture? I mean, and even things that are illegal, like rooster fighting and shit, like, oh yeah. Gambling is like so pervasive. Yeah. You know, you would know more about the North than I would, but. Maybe the faster pace. I mean, we always just said it's kind of like California a little bit the same.

1:04:49They're real smart and they play well and they're just not. They're not just going to take much of a beating. And the thing is, even if you play well, the difference, a lot of people, like I used to get accused for being the one, you know, the best of the game, which who doesn't, right? But people would mistake that also for someone who could play well under pressure. You know, if you play well under pressure, it looks like you got the best of the game. You know, most people can't. So even if you beat them playing really well, so it's hard to make another game off of how you just played because you played really well.

1:05:21Like, that's hard to do all the time playing. You know that, right? Right. So. I see you guys try to match up for hours. Oh, give up, come back, give up, come back. Oh, yeah. And then finally, I'm a guy that rack in the balls. They're rack in the balls. Yeah, but you know, I go to senior centers, right? Sometimes play pool with some of the older guys or have a lesson there or something like that. They talk a little shit without any game. So, you know what I mean? And some of it goes way back. Like, it's pretty nasty stuff. Oh, really? Well, I mean, kind of. I mean, you know, they don't know me from Adam talking about some real personal from 25 years ago.

1:05:58That's where it is. Yeah, it's pretty funny. So I think the Barkin' in general, being somewhere you're allowed to bark a little bit. Yeah. Well, it was always, it's just a part of the fun of it all. It's like wild things are happening. Oh, no, absolutely. People are accusing people of sharking them and it's just... Well, the swings too, the ups and downs. You know, like, I mean, you know, you just broke so -and -so. He's dead broke. He was barring money yesterday and you know, he spent two days out of the pool room and he's one 10 ,000 cents. You know what I mean? So you keep track of everyone.

1:06:30Yeah. Especially if you're in a place locally that you live at that has action. You always want to know what's going on a little bit, you know. And for people that don't understand the allure of this, you're constantly engaged in some kind of competition. It's constant happening. Oh yeah. And it's endless. Yeah, it's endless. Yeah, they, you know, basketball, what are you going to do? You're going to go shoot free throws maybe or maybe play one, I mean, this is endless. The pool games and the handicaps, the partners. It's no season. Yeah. Y 'all two could play mean. I know we could rotate. Yeah.

1:07:01I mean, that's just all kinds. Yeah. When you, have you ever set down and try to like, like write out some of these stories? Not really the stories, no. I've written some stuff for teaching because I do a lot of that, right? And it helps to write it down. Yeah, for sure. But no, not the stories probably should. You definitely should. Yeah. I think I'd want to know somebody though, like really trust putting it in someone else's hands. Right. You know, someone's going to come across with that. I'm an author. Yeah, give it the right climate, whatever that is. You know, I'm not sure what that is yet, but.

1:07:38Maybe we could just record some of your stories. Just record some of your stories and make YouTube videos. That might actually be even better than a book. Well, some of them are pretty crazy. Give me a crazy one. What's the craziest one? Oh, oh, there. I can't tell you probably maybe the craziest. I'll tell you later on the craziest ones on here. But let's see. So, so, so one time I was an internament in Mississippi, to get on with this, I wanted to tournament. Tough tournament, Johnny Archer, all the great players and his bar table. So I went like 8 ,000. So by the time I won the tournament, I think I was about 25 ,000 losing in the casino.

1:08:17Okay, he's like terrible trip. I mean, I wouldn't even try. You remember Tony Ellen? Yes. So he was 20 minutes late to get a stake dinner at the horseshoe. It cost me about 12 ,000. I went down there and said, let me just, let me just pitch 300, you know, and they just pounded me, right? So I got the tournament money after one and it was 8 ,000. When straight to the cage and cashed it, when straight to the blackjack. Yeah, I had it about 10 minutes. So the 8 ,000 was gone. And so this guy that was playing there, his name was Frank Seals. And he was a legendary stake horse. And he used to take CJ when he was a kid and a lot of players throughout the years.

1:08:57And he said, hey, if you're ever bored, you want to come up to Morse Town, Tennessee, I got a kid and I'll let you play. If you still want to play, you know, I like the way he gambles what he said. He watched me play Blackjack blow up my money, right? Yeah. So, yeah. So I told him, that's when I said, you ain't dealing with me, you know, Blackjack up there. If I go up there, so anyways, I go up there. So he's got this guy, Mark Owens, was his name, good player. And a real high gear, maybe not the most steady player, but real high gear. So we're playing, we start out playing races to 9 or 10 or something for a thousand.

1:09:33So long story short, I got him 10 ,000 loser. Okay. And it's because we raised it and whatnot. And so now the whole town, this is a small town. Okay, just up in the northeast corner of Tennessee. So the whole town starts coming in and this is their hero. So my buddy starts taking bets on the side, you know. So now we, I got him 10 ,000 loser and he says, we want to play a set for 10 ,000. This is what Frank says, the, the stakeholders. He says, but we need to call eight, you know, at the call eight, of course, right? So I said, okay, yeah. So we're going to race to, another race to 15. So we're betting about 10 ,000 on the side.

1:10:15Okay. So we're playing a set for like 20. All right, because my buddy's got a list of bets this long with all the town people. You know what I mean? Yeah. So it's 98 me instead of playing safe on the eight, I try to jack up off the end real and stab it in and draw my ball. You know what I mean? And I, I ball boy. He makes it, he breaks and runs five racks. He's up 14 to nine. So now he breaks, going to 15. And the four nine is wired over the spot. He makes an incredible shot on the one. He's got the three down the rail and he's just got a cupcake on the four nine. So I turn my buddy and I said, man, we ain't got about like 8 ,000 left, you know?

1:10:53Because we are winner. We start off a thousand of set. I said, we can't lower the bet. You can't do that. Then they know you're short. Right. And I'm saying, yeah. So I'm like, what are we going to do? You know, we get more money tomorrow or whatever, right? So the pool table's here, right? He's shooting at this corner. Now Frank is the only guy he's sitting right here on a stool chair, right? Like a little school chair. Everyone else is way back over here besides me and my buddies over here, right? All the people watching. So he knocks a three in, Mark does, and he comes down. He was kind of one of those guys that would fire the nine in.

1:11:29You know what I'm saying? You see him? He rifles this four nine. He could have just tapped it in a row, right in the corner. This ball went down and swirled around in the pocket. Jumped almost all the way back out to the spot. That's how far it went. Oh my God. Yeah, all the money's on the light, right? So Frank, he knows about pooling the ball's aim directly at Frank. So soon as he hits it, he knows it's in. So Frank starts to get up and get the money. I said, oh Frank, I said the nine's on the table. You know, Frank's like 75 years old. He's got glasses. So I said the nine's on the table. He said, oh, I'm sorry.

1:12:06You know, like he didn't realize it didn't go in. Well, it did go in. It just came back out. Yeah. Never pocketed another ball the whole set. I played safe on that first shot. I broke a ran, played safe. I broke a ran, beat him 15, 14. So now the kid, he quits, and he's literally crying out on the stairs. Okay. So Frank says, come back the next day. We'll play you some more. So we come back the next day. We start out playing like for 3500 races to 11. So I beat him three sets. So he says, hey, he's going to take a break. He said, I'll play some more in a minute. I'm like, sweet, man. This is a good action, you know.

1:12:45So Frank's sitting in this chair right here. And the kid's practicing a little bit. And he hits a ball in that same pocket. It jumps the pocket. It hits Frank dead in the eye. Right? And he's glasses and blood's going everywhere. Jesus Christ. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was ironically crazy, right? So we end up having a quit and we never end up playing again. So the same pocket that kind of saved me the day before, right? Kind of got him the next day and we end up never playing. Funny story. What kind of shitty table is that? It was a gold crown, but it had a replacement pockets. You know, the big black ones that go in there kind of bulky, they kind of move around a little bit.

1:13:23Yeah, yeah, it's a little school pool hall. Oh, man. Yeah, that Frank, he was something else. So I'm playing, right? And he pulls up his overall. And I see a gunshot wound in his leg. I said, dang, Frank, you got shot. He said, yeah, my wife shot me about 10 years ago. I said, man, you mean your ex -wife, don't you? He says, no, he says, I'm still with her, right? I said, damn. About three months later she killed him. What? After I played it. Yeah, same later that shot her. Shot him 10 months before. Oh, my God. She shot him dead? Dead. Dead. I think she did six months in a mental place and then she's out.

1:14:05Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. Six months. That's it. She shot him twice. Oh, no, I think it's like more. I think it was like five of them in the chat. Oh, when she killed her. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she was. Mary, I was telling you about that buried money. Yeah. Frank gave me some of that buried money. I think he was kind of like a numbers guy. You know how they run the lottery out in the country on their own and stuff. Yeah, I think he did like stuff like that. So my grandma was involved with that. Yeah, that's a big thing in the Northeast. Yeah, the numbers. Yeah. Yeah, that's another thing people look forward to that kind of gambling.

1:14:41I just don't like restrictions on gambling and I know people have problems with it. I really do. I mean, I've met a lot of people that are like degenerate gamblers and it's horrible to see. Oh, yeah. They get so addicted. They're so fucked up. But it's still fun. And especially with pool, it's really fun. I mean, you're gambling on a game of skill, you know? Yeah. Well, I've rarely seen where someone got their life messed up really. I mean, don't get me wrong. You might not have the best relationship with your lady. You know, if you're gone all the time for days at a time, right? But as far as like financially, really, I've seen it in other kind of gambling whatnot.

1:15:20You've seen that, I'm sure. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I've seen it in all kinds of sports gambling in particular. Yeah. Did you ever see that movie Uncut Gems? Yeah. Adam Sandman with What a Great Movie. Yeah, really. What a great movie. I like him in serious roles a lot. I've never saw him in one before that. But that one is so good. It's, you get so much anxiety watching that. I like, don't do it. Yeah. What are you doing? Yeah. What are you doing? But we know guys like that. Oh, absolutely. 100%. Yeah. 100%. 100%. Yeah. Those are real guys. Oh, 100%. And it's amazing because usually they get a hold of a big number and it still doesn't matter.

1:15:56No. You know, like, I mean, it used to be like, all right, they got a hold of 30. How long are they going to hold on 30? They got a hold of 60. They want to choose. Yeah. But I mean, same guys, I'm seeing them get a hold of five and six hundred and still going and losing it all. Yeah. Yeah. Quickly. Yeah. Month, three weeks. Yep. I mean, I went broke tons of time. I mean, I tell between the legs coming back home, but I mean, I'd leave like 3 ,000, 4 ,000 and normally odds are the value I was going to come back pumped up. Sometimes I came back broke, but it wasn't like, you know, like that. I was watching Dana White gamble in Vegas.

1:16:33He was playing Blackjack and when I got there, he was down 600 ,000. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And he won the winning at all back and plus 600. Oh, yeah. But like, jeez. Like the guy we were talking about earlier with the IPT. Yeah. And what he used to like that real high dollar back, 20, 30 ,000 a hand. 40 ,000. Yeah. Goes fast. Oh, boy, it does. Yeah. That's just so crazy. But I guess when you just have like fucking shit tons of money and that's the only way you can get excited. Like it has to be dangerous. I don't know. I think there's got to be a hypnotism. I mean, they obviously aren't going to go broke.

1:17:14Right. So maybe, well, hope not. Yeah. I mean, look, it could happen if you just get really wacky and keep going. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you could get yourself stressed out about it, I guess, but, but I mean, you know, I don't know if I happen to the people that I know, but it could. If I had a billion dollars though, I think if I like playing Blackjack, maybe thousand hands just going to be just a satisfying, just maybe, maybe be pool player. I don't know. Maybe my mentality. I don't know. I don't know. Because I used to play a lot higher than a thousand a hand. A couple of whiskey. When I didn't have, oh, 100%.

1:17:46Yeah. A couple of whiskey's in you might be betting 150 ,000. Yeah, maybe. Let's go. I will raise my bet if I get one hundred percent. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's poor, poor mentality. Yeah. Yeah. The only way to win, really. Yeah. Yeah. It's just the art of that though is what was always fun to watch. The art of making the game and guys going and knowing that they were eventually probably going to play even. But I need to eat. I need the fucking eight. I need the brakes. I need this. I need that. And this is banter back and forth. And everybody's circling around watching this drama play out.

1:18:20Yeah. And you're trying to figure out who to bet on. Yeah. You know, because you can't just sit on the sidelines waiting for the nut game. Yeah. You won't get any action. It's like a poker guy. They know you've got aaces of kings. If he moves all in, kind of like thing. And there's also an understanding amongst guys who gamble with each other on a regular basis. That it's, I'm losing money to you. You're losing money to me. We're all good. Yeah. Absolutely. Going this way, going that way. There's very rarely were bad feelings after guys would lose money gambling. I mean, some guys get pissed off at themselves or some guys.

1:18:53Yeah. I mean, areas were different, I think. You know, and maybe you noticed it more, but like Houston where I was from. It was just gambling. I was gambling personal. It was personal. I mean, it was the most cut and dry I had ever been around. And it was cut and dry sort of in the culture, like as you were coming up. Yeah. Absolutely. Whereas like Dallas, we are always called it more nitty. You know, like, but you know, it just was more nitty. It wasn't necessarily nitty. It was just more nitty, you know. More nitty than Houston was. Yeah. It was like very conservative in your gambling. Yeah.

1:19:30Try to win. Fire one barrel at you. Yeah. You lose your out of there. Yeah, exactly. Where did that term come from? Nitty. Yeah. You got me. That's an old turn. Old, old. And it's used. Not just pool. I mean, I've heard it outside of pool, but. Yeah. Well, you know, Houston's been around on the map for the game. That's where Cesar Morales went, right? That was Eiffren's name. Yeah. And he passed as his Hispanic guy from San Antonio. Yeah. That funny story, if you ever heard Red Walling, the guy that own Reds. So I guess Eiffren was in the semifinal. And of the tournament, still under the name of Cesar Morales.

1:20:07And he went up to Red Walling and he says, Mr. Walling, he said, I got to ask you a question. Or I got to tell you something. My real name isn't Cesar Morales. I'm not going to get four footed out of the tournament and I get my money. You know, he won before he got to win in the tournament. He wanted to fess up. You know. And so Red Walling said, yeah, just tell us your real name now. So I will make sure you get paid, you know. Pretty crazy. And that was only like 10 miles from where I was from, but it was before my time. So how did those guys know in the Philippines that there was so much gambling going on in Texas back then?

1:20:40And how do they know that they could take this kid from the Philippines who turns out to be one of the greatest players, if not the greatest, it's ever lived. And then just rob everybody. Well, Philippines are everywhere. Filipino people are everywhere. I mean, if you go to the tournament, it could be just, I mean, you just pick a place out of the blue. If there's Filipino champion there, there's going to be a groves of them showing up to watch. So they keep, kind of keep control of it. Plus there was one of the original guys that was a top player him and his brother, Rudy Pasquale and JR Pasquale.

1:21:13They came before after all of them and they lived in Houston. So they kind of brought them there for the red tournaments and all the action. Yeah. So kind of like we said, information. Right. So they knew Efron in the Philippines. So Efron had already had a name. So if you tried to come over as Efron Reyes, people would already have heard about him. Absolutely. 100%. Yeah. And the thing is, then at that point, there were only a couple that you heard about from outside of America. So Efron was one of them for sure. It wouldn't get lost. What is the highest stakes match you've ever seen played? Hmm.

1:21:53Uh, probably in New Orleans, there's a billionaire car bomb. I think he took on like 220 ,000 worth of action. He's not a good player, but he's not a bad player. He's kind of a guy and he comes down to a few tournaments and he plays real expensive, you know, on the bar table, he plays nine ball, plays another weak player or he plays a good player getting a huge spot. And like how much is a gamble? Oh, I mean, he's he's playing like six or seven games ahead or maybe a race to nine for, you know, in the middle, it might be like 80 or 100, but he'll bet another 100 on the side. Well, when he comes, everyone bets against him just because the, you know, you're looking at the odds, right?

1:22:33Right. Yeah, you're looking at, and that's another thing in the pool room. You might get a good game, but you know the guy's short. Right. So you got to wait, you know, and I mean, you know, you want to get the most out of that game if you do. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's interesting. That's like all knowing when to pull the trigger, knowing where a person's at. Yeah, when it's all prime, knowing if they scored recently, how they're playing. Tony Allen used to be the best because, you know, people bet on matches and stuff at the tournaments, you know, and he was just so in tune with all the players.

1:23:06You know, some of them, some of them, they're personal lives, you know, and like that makes a huge difference on that because pool's so mental. Oh, yeah, you'd call from breaks up with you. Yeah. You'd take out of your apartment. Yeah. Now you might play like shit or, or if like a couple of things don't go your way to start with Tony, you say that if he doesn't get it his way at the beginning, he's going to fold. He's just in that mood right now. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So like just so many different aspects. Yeah. So is the biggest games that you've seen played or really from people that aren't the best players?

1:23:39Have you seen what is like the most high stakes between like two elite players? Because I know there's, there's some legendary stories about, you know, guys like Boost de Monte and Johnny Archer, Logan Lawrence and Johnny runs the whole set. Yeah. And Boost de Monte ups the bet. Yeah, it says flip the coin. Yeah, double the bet and beat him. Yeah. Yeah. I was, I played on that table. That was in Toledo, Ohio. How many people? 13 and out, 13 racks and out. Johnny broken ran 13 racks in a row. Yeah. I would never play with another cue ever for a second in life. Yeah. That cue is an extension of his soul.

1:24:14You're right. To run 13 racks is so bananas. Yeah. To do it. And how much were they gambling? I think it was like 10, you know, back down. The thing is these days, of course, everything has gone up in money, right? So there's more being bet now. So I would say like when Dennis and Shane played a few years ago, here it is. That was a huge one. It says one time we're in Toledo and Archer is playing Boost de Monte. Arrested 13 for 2000, 2000, 3000, 13 consecutive racks in a row. Yeah. Yeah. Johnny was a bad on break for money. Oh, man. He was an awesome internment, but he's awesome in everything.

1:24:49Yeah, just rarely ever saw him get beat for money. I mean, he would give guys that were like really good players the last four, you know, to mean on tight tape. Oh, no, I got this year. I mean, no problem. You know, never saw him practice, by the way. Yeah. The guy like Johnny, like with all this new technology with like carbon fiber cues and the like, does the guy like that still play with a wood shaft? I think so. I haven't seen him playing quite some time. He has been probably four or five years that I've seen since he's really been in a big competitive tournament. Now, I did play the US Open a couple of years ago.

1:25:22I want to match her too, but didn't do that well. So I don't think he's playing a ton. So yeah, last I saw him play. Yeah, you know, I think he opened a pool room there in North Georgia. So doing a lot of that. But this, this technology thing, like we were talking about this today, that there's these new carbon fiber shafts and they're very consistent and all these people play with them. But some players still prefer the feedback that they get from wood. And that's part of the enjoyment of the game is like feeling that feedback in your hand. Yeah, I think so. I mean, you definitely get a lot of feel.

1:26:00You know, you don't want something that's like a two by four, right? I mean, you know, that's why, you know, players they break in like they get a new cue, they break in the shaft, the oils off your hands. You know, just a number of things you like. I think one of the things about the carbon fiber, which I like, I like it, but you get a lot out of it. But sometimes, you know, if you get a little hairy, that mist can be a little uglier. Really? Yeah, just because it does put a little more spin on the ball, you know, it's just a higher, a little higher spin rate overall. So I mean, you know, if you get a little, you know, like I said, you desel at the ball, it could be real ugly, you know, or if you really overhead it, you know.

1:26:38But my point was that like Johnny played perfect with a wooden shaft. Like try, how would you convince that guy to even try carbon fiber? Wow. If you could just do it a little easier, you know, if you can swing a little, yeah, yeah, you could swing a little more, you know, subtly, they say softer, anything like that, but just a little less on it overall. Or let's say you're putting a tip and a half a left English. Maybe you only got to go a tip or a half a tip. No, so a little comfort level, you know, comfort overall. It just makes the ball react differently. Yeah. And I don't know exactly all the technology behind it other than, you know, we can, you can build them how you want exactly, right?

1:27:21Would there still a little variable, I think? Yeah, but the thing that bums me out is that part of pool is the custom cue makers, as long as these guys that are making these beautiful, functional pieces of art. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. You know, but, you know, with the carbon fiber, I guess most of the companies and really with the playability, it's gone to more performance than it is. Even though they are, you know, they make attractive cues and all that, but you wouldn't say it's the time and effort like some of your handcrafted cues. Right. It's just about winning. Yeah. About showing up with a ball of bush.

1:27:57Yeah. How are you doing? That's a great scene. Oh, I loved. I've made a post about my new cue the other day referring to that. Do you know the video game doom? Yeah. What's the aim from that scene? Yeah, a bunch of people made that comment on the post. Yeah, that is amazing. I didn't know that actually. I didn't. Yeah. John Carmack told me. Yeah. And then I think, you know, how the phones listen to you. I was watching some clip and I think you mentioned that on one of your podcasts, I think. So yeah, they, um, they wanted to just, they wanted to be doomed for the video game industry. Yeah, that's crazy.

1:28:29And it's such a great name for a crazy video game. No, it is, but where they, you know, they were got it from Tom Cruise. You call her exactly like doomed in, come up from something else that came up from there. Did you ever get into video games? You know, we had an Atari, um, played it for a few days after Christmas. Warned a lot inside very much. You know, six of us. Oh, no, no, no, no. But I mean, we're out of the house. Exactly. Yeah. Drink all the water hose. Oh, yeah. Oh, 100%. I bet you got an amazing immune system. It's really good. I've been lucky my whole life. Not going to. It's from a hose drink and Joey Diaz always talks about that.

1:29:05When we swam in the bay, which was just right across the street, Joey Diaz always like a drink, puddle water. Yeah. Yeah, we weren't allowed there too often till later in the evening. And my mom wasn't no neat freak or anything. It was just pantomony. I think in plus we had, it's just shit to do. We had the park. We had our guys, you know, like I said, go on the bay, go play ball. Yeah. Sounds like an ideal childhood. Sounds great. Yeah, my neighborhood was cool. It was a little lower class, but it was cool. It was an old one, like I said, on the water. I mean, there were fights every day, but you know, we all knew each other, you know?

1:29:40But what my point is that it's like the video game thing gets people to. And it got me as well for a while. I was completely addicted to playing online Quake. Yeah. I played like these 3D shooters. I jump on these. You could any time you want. Like it'd be two o 'clock in the morning. You could log on and you find some server somewhere and there's some guy waiting to play. And you get in there and then you just chase after each other in these maps. And you hear footsteps and rockets coming at you. Oh, yeah. It's so, but I bought a lot of that stuff for the kids. Have you? Oh, yeah. But what it doesn't do though, it's like, it doesn't clear your mind the way pool does.

1:30:18When you're playing pool, I think it's a lot like archery. And then it's so difficult to do to have like precision and move the ball. Occasionally when you do it right and you're cleaning your mind, it's like so satisfying. Whereas video games are just exciting. When it's over, you're like cracked out. Yeah. When I would end up, you're like, oh, Jesus Christ. Your adrenaline's all fucked up. Like you're going to go home. Yeah. This is too much. It's too crazy. Yeah, we talk about a 12 year old who's like, oh, he's been on there too long. Yeah. We can tell the difference for sure. Hold on a 100%.

1:30:49Yeah. I hit him some moisture and some vitamins. 100%. Well, that game room, I got a job and it had like probably 80 video games. Oh, yeah. And then we didn't have a nine foot table. We had four bites and then a snooker table and like some foosball. Couple of them alike, like RoboTron, but like actual gaming. No, I never got into it. I was always either playing baseball or tennis or, you know, something. Yeah. It was a good size. You're probably lucky. But now people are making money doing that too. Oh, 100%. I know some guys say kids are wasting their lives. Yeah. And they're making shit tons of money playing video games.

1:31:22Yeah. Well, I think he's one guy I know here for a long time from the pool. He's worked for EA for like 20 years. He's like a develop, you know, test their games. Oh, he does it pretty much give him feedback, I think. Those guys who develop those games, those guys work hard. Those guys work hard. Those are long hours. Like when they're putting together in like it's crunch time and they're getting to the end of a video game, they basically like live in their studios and offices. Well, I believe it. I know a guy back, he was a year ahead of me, graduated valedictorian of my high school. And he was moving to Japan, to Asia, to get into gaming, like developing gaming.

1:32:02He knew a long time ago that the addiction was going to go crazy for gaming. You know, like it was going to be kind of like, oh, I can stay at home and do something else here again. That entertains me. Right. You know? Yeah. It's, I mean, for kids, it's so captivating. It's so difficult for them to put them down because they're so good now and the graphics are so insane. It's like it's so much more exciting. And for a lot of kids, they don't want to be outside. Maybe they get picked on. Maybe someone walks with them in school. Like, they just can't wait to live in that world. Well, I think the parents too to be fair.

1:32:34I see parents that don't mind that the kids being upstairs, you know, doing their own thing, self -included at times. You know, I catch myself, hey, he's been up there too long by them. You know, kind of thing, you know. So, and a kid. I guess it wasn't that long ago you were playing those games. So, you know, even guys are age can get addicted to those things, right? Oh, yeah. We set up a local area network at our old studio and I had a quick cold turkey. It was like, this is too much. Jamie and me and our friend Jeff would be going at it, like constantly, bring people in and play him. It was fun.

1:33:06It's too fun though. Too crazy. Just too addictive. Yeah, I have a friend in St. Louis. Yeah, it's places all over St. Louis and other towns just for gaming. I mean, people can come in 24 -7. They pay a membership, bunch of couches set up, bunch of gaming set up. Oh, so they just come in and just log on to a game. Yeah. Yeah. They pay a monthly for it. Makes sense, especially if you can't afford, like, great equipment. Yeah, and I think social too. I think it's fairly social. Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. It's probably a great place to buy weed too. Maybe. Well, they have the automated pull rooms now around the country, you know, where there's no one working.

1:33:45Automated pull rooms. Oh, yeah. There's several throughout the country now, where you just, you know, they got 10 tables or whatever. They got vending machines and whatnot. You just have your card that lets you in. It has cameras and all that. You have to be there with a member if you're not, you know what I mean, kind of, you just pay a monthly fee, yeah. Oh, so you log in with your card and however many hours you play, does it charge you by the hour? Well, a lot of them have like a, you can buy the membership plus so many hours a month at a discounted charge. You understand, you know, anywhere you get a little break or you can just pay the hourly I think.

1:34:20So like your credit cards on file or something. That's kind of a bummer because like the house man at a pool hall, there's always been some interesting humans. Oh, absolutely. How can you get rid of the house man? Yeah, but I mean, you know, for big places like Miami has one, Des Moines has one, Seattle has one that's kind of part time, meaning half the week they're kind of regular and then the other half of the week, they're kind of automated on the slower days. So I mean, I guess it's better than not being open. Well, they can go 24 seven also. Like a lot of them are 24 seven where people can, you know, kind of like a jam, you know, they can kind of go out there on leisure.

1:34:58So you have a card to get in. Yeah. So it's a club. Yeah, basically. That's, well, that makes sense. Yeah, it's better. I mean, that's, you know, a lot of people carry some beard products out of there and whatnot. So you some stuff, you know, make appointment for this. Maybe like Tony Robles, you know him. Sure. Yeah, he has, he's part of one in Miami. Oh, yeah. And he coaches a lot out of there and stuff. Oh, that's all right. That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. So how often are you on the road doing commentary now?

1:35:33Probably 15 weeks a year, probably or so. But I do some remotely from home as well, but the bigger events I travel. Do you ever play when you go to these places? Occasionally, but not in the tournament, of course. I'm just working right. But do you match up? I actually played a guy in London a couple months ago. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I surprised him a little bit. He's a good player, you know, this guy. Right, but he thought you were done. Yeah, I think he thought he was going to win. You know, he had beaten Darren Appton last year, gambling, you know, so that tells you he's a good player, you know.

1:36:05Yeah. I mean, I think he was an underdog player and but he did beat him. And so, and he's kind of a crazy guy, like knowing to do some super crazy stuff, like probably stuff I can't say on here, you know. Okay. You know, like you can just imagine just crazy. The bottery. Yeah, exactly. And he was like perfect gentleman with me. No problems ever. Just nice guy took his beaten easily. He wants to play again, actually. So we'll see. Oh, wow. Yeah. Now a guy like that, when he wants to play again, is he trying to get a spot? No. Too proud this guy. Really? Yeah, but that's good though. I mean, he's like, I think he's very, very wealthy man, you know, kind of like a family stuff, but but I don't, I can't, can't remember him ever asking for a spot from any good player.

1:36:52Oh, wow. Well, that's where he gets his juice, right? Well, he tries to beat you with the bet, you know, like he went on, I'll play his VB to not 2000, I said 2000 again, you know, pounds again. Oh, right. Yeah. So, he, you know, he didn't try that with me as much, but I beat him, you know, like three sets. We were betting that much thousand, right? Heard a couple sets thousand, but then he went to like, let's play 3000 again, you know. I'm like, yeah. Yeah, I mean, yeah, we're going to put up like 60 ,000. Let's go, you know, I mean, but I mean, you know, let's not do it and just play like two games.

1:37:28I don't want to do that. Right. So, better off to just play sets and over here. How many different pros is this guy matched up with? Several. I mean, I think he's played Daring a few times. He plays all the English guys over there. I think he acts, Lee has played Shane before. Really? Yeah, I think of course Shane beat him, but yeah, he tries to play as many as he can. He plays a lot of local guys over England. Is that common that guys match up like that in England? No, this is the guy that kind of creates the action. Oh, really? Yeah, most of the action that happens with the good players is through this guy, you know, but now you know what English Apeau is, right?

1:38:06Yes. Okay, so that's hit the scene again. So now they're playing, you might have saw the video on it, but they're playing like huge sets, 100 ,000 pounds sets of English Apeau gambling. Really? Yeah, huge sets. Yeah. And English Apeau, it's just like different colored balls. They don't have numbers, right? Right. And then it's basically like Apeau. There's maybe a couple little bitty rules that are different, but the pockets are different. Remember like the Chinese Apeau, we were talking about there. So they're rounded pockets, like a snooker table, but the balls are smaller also. So that's all fairly comparable.

1:38:42So the balls are smaller than pool balls? Yeah. How much smaller? I think they're like snooker ball size. Oh, really? Yeah, because the pockets are rounded. And what's the size of the table? Three and a half by seven. Ooh. Oh, interesting. There it is right there. Yeah, that's kind of like what Jason Shaw started playing on for the most part, or played a lot of Darren. He was a world champion at this scene. And do these guys use pool cues? Oh, wow, they're how small it is in comparison. That's interesting. No, they use like snooker cues. They're more than the ash wood, you know? Now what is the benefit of that?

1:39:16Because like, this is, I've always wanted to ask someone like you these questions. Like, why would they play with a cue that's really, really stiff? If they - Well, they, that little ball deflects. And, you know, the felt they play on kind of promotes the flexion a little easier as well, that thicker nap felt. You know, you've seen the snooker felt, right? Yeah. It's kind of like directional felt. You can actually wave your hand. And the direct, the felt so thick, it'll change directions, you know what I mean. So - Yeah, it's, well, they've gotten it to where it's actually much faster now than it ever was.

1:39:48But not as fast as some onus, right? No, it shouldn't be. It shouldn't be. It's much slower than what you've had to pool players. And the lighter balls don't go as far. Like three cushion. Mm -hmm. That's why they use the big balls because they go five, six, seven rails with the cue ball, right? Right. Yeah, so it goes a long ways. But, yeah, the stiffer. But to me, it's kind of weird because they don't put much side spin on the ball. Right. You know, unless they have a cupcake that's laid up in the hole, or they're real close to it, they aren't putting side spin on the ball. Has anybody tried to develop a carbon fiber snicker cue?

1:40:19Oh, yeah. There's a guy, Q -Tech actually did, and there's a guy that qualified for the tour using it. Yeah, from, he's one of Q -Tech players. Because that's the weird thing is how every cue react. It's like you're getting feedback from every different one that's slightly different and how it makes the ball react. Yeah, it's like tips, everything else. When you're on the road, do these players ever match up with each other? Oh, yeah. Like Vegas? Yeah, Vegas is a real good one. You know, we're there for two, like the one I saw you at, I met you at, right? Yeah. Was that March, I think it was. That one there, we're there for two weeks.

1:40:59And the Europeans and the Asian, they all like to gamble. It's just not something that happens a lot. We're there for them. But when they get over here, yeah, they make a lot of games. And they're all getting introduced to one pocket. They all like one pocket, you know? So I want to think about one pocket compared to nine ball is just a little easier to make a game. There's more room to match up, you know? So like say, for instance, me and you are going to play each other, nine ball. Most likely I'm going to give you a game that I can't win at or I'm going to give you a game that you can't win at like the handicap, you know what I'm saying?

1:41:31It's hard to make a game unless you get two guys that are real close to each other in level. But one pocket for some reason, the spot shows up. So you can make it a game where I go to 10 balls, you go to five or six or something. Right. And it actually, in time, you'll start to see it. It's pretty fair, you know, if the game's right. So where you can see a big ups and downs, tosses and turns, you know? It's just not as exciting to watch. No, no, I mean, you got to get into it. You know, it's not as fast, right? But most people to get into it, they love it. There's no doubt about that. Oh, I get it.

1:42:06I mean, it's a very intricate game. But as far as like getting people to tune into it, you don't have a chance in hell. Oh, no chance. Zero chance. No chance. Even though in the pool world, which is pretty vast, you know that, it's the biggest watch streams. Really? Yeah, like the head up matches. You know, there might be a nine ball that comes along every now and again. But for the most part, because the one pocket people spend, you know, they got money. There's a gamblers, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. It's weird that that's the big gambling game. Yeah. Well, that's the only reason is again, because you can take levels.

1:42:43Yeah. Yeah. There's so many ways to match up. You know, I mean, I played games, you know, I played a guy in St. Louis one time, 55 to eight or nine, I think it was. Wow. So I had to spot my first, whatever, 42 balls. 42 balls or something. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now that's a little extreme spot. Yeah, yeah. You know, you got a bet a little higher because the games don't go very fast, right? But you know what, backgammon is, of course, right? Mm -hmm. And you know how they play with the cube? Yes. Okay, so we played one pocket big money with the cube. So say me and you are playing the cube's neutral.

1:43:20I'll say you break the balls and say we're playing for a hundred point on the cube, right? Mm -hmm. And you break the balls and break bad and sell out a shot, a scratch or whatever, right? Okay. Well, I can take the cube and offer it to you and you either got to take the cube and now we're playing for 200 because the cube always doubles, right? Like backgammon. Or you got to pay off that game for a hundred and we started new one. Whoa. You see? Like the backgammon, right? Now this is the advantage. If I offer to you the cube and you accept it, now you're in control of the cube. So if you turn things around later in the game to where it's your advantage, you're the only one that can offer the cube back.

1:44:00So now you offer it back to me and I say, I either got to pay off the 200 that we're playing for now or now it's worth 400. You see? But now I'm in control of the cube because I accepted it. It's a great way to play. Ooh, that's exciting. Oh yeah, and you can do that almost any game when you can do it on the golf course. Like your guy hits, right? Mm -hmm. And before you hit, say you hit sitting rough. I can say, all right, we're playing for a hundred a whole. I'm off for you and the cube. You want to take the cube and play for 200 this whole before you see me hit or you want to pay off the hundred.

1:44:36Wow. What's your name? What's your name? Have you done this? A couple of times. Yeah, backgammon's a golf junk. Well, backgammon's the most popular place the cube's kind of known for. You know what I mean in gambling because it's a numbers game. So you read your numbers, right? Your position, you say, I like my position. I'm going to say, I offer you the cube. Great way to gamble, by the way, especially if you're there for a while. Like you're playing a guy all the time. That's interesting. Yeah. But you can't do that with nine ball, really. But you could do it with one pocket because the one pocket, it's a vast game.

1:45:12It might take an hour, you know? Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. But still nine balls, the most fun thing to watch. Well, especially these days, it's off the charts. I have too much ADD for one pocket. But you know how many times I've heard that before? Yeah, from all people that were telling you the truth. And in the end, they become a great one pocket player. Are you talking about like pro nine palm players? It may be, you know, the diagnosis for your ADD. I don't have that kind of time. No. I barely have time to play a few hours a week, you know, which is frustrating because like right when I get warmed up, then I got to stop.

1:45:44Yeah, I got to go somewhere because we were talking about this. It's so nuts like what's required to play really good pool, but it's really eight hours a day. We both kind of agreed on that, right? Oh, I, you know, I used to gamble and then I'd play between, right? But when I decided to go ahead and just, I moved to Jacksonville, Florida and I didn't know anyone. Wasn't a real gambling place had some action, but I just said, all right, I'm just going to practice. I'm going to forget about the gambling. We'll see how I can do on this tour. It's 98 and 98. Once I started doing the eight hours a day, I went from like 24th to first on tour.

1:46:19Wow. Ended up fourth on tour for that year, ero, end of when the tour that year, but then got back to first another 10 or months later a year later and hovered around the top 10 for 10 or 12 years mainly just because of that practicing. I could tell the difference between me and the next guy. Yeah, 100%. And when you're practicing, you're practicing with purpose, right? You're practicing. You're just throwing balls around. You're setting things up. Oh, yeah. And the main thing to me and this will make you practice well is if you just put yourself in a tournament setting, you know, like take your time, go look at your position, you know what I'm saying?

1:46:57Like you don't slow player anything, just what you would normally do. You know, most of the guys want to just swing the queue a little bit and then when they get an tournament, all of a sudden slow down and it's hard thing to do, all of a sudden. Yeah. Yeah. Better off just go ahead and play speedy around the table like you've been doing. Mm. You know? That's the same thing with fighting. Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. You want to really practice the same way that you perform, you know, you don't want to spar hard all the time, but you definitely don't want to try to switch up what you do in the intense competition.

1:47:30Oh, absolutely. I mean, you know, Scala Woodward, huge, huge talent. I mean, I think he really could be number one player in the world. Yeah, we were just talking about him. Yeah, just a real keen mind and one thing I tell him, I don't need a thousand balls a day. You need 300 quality balls a day. You know what I mean? And that's a huge difference. Right. I think he's doing that a little more and it's shown. Yeah, it requires so much of you. It's tough. It requires so much of you. You have to be a full on addict, you know, and those are the guys who succeed in this wild game. But everyone is attracted to it.

1:48:06Like the idea of being a good pool player is very attractive to people. Oh, yeah. Yeah, once you start to see that ball move, but well, everyone's played it. Right. That's why everyone's played it. They realize, oh, yeah, we went out and had a beer and played one game over an hour and a half. Or a couple of, you know, we had four drinks and we played one game, you know, just because it's so difficult. But it's one of those things that if you, like a person like yourself, like literally made a living running around gambling doing it, like what percentage of the population has ever done that for years and years?

1:48:41Yeah, very slim. I'm my last regular job. I was 19. A lot of people, they, most people laugh some are not that happy about that. So they've been working, you know, pretty hard. Which, hey, it takes a lot of hard work though. It's not easy. Well, it 100 % takes a lot of work. But how did you transition from doing that to being able to do such a good commentary? Because one of the things that I really enjoy about your commentary is you explain all of the different things that's happening to the ball. You explain what could cause problems. And then a lot of times those problems occur and go, yeah, you know, that's a common mistake.

1:49:20Yeah. How did you develop the ability to articulate all these thoughts so smoothly? I think, man, I grew up loving commentators, you know, whenever I was a kid, you knew all the commentators because they're wooden cable television and all the games weren't on 38 different channels. And, you know, so you kind of learned to know that Coastal was coming on Monday and Frank Gifford and all those guys, right? So those, I really like those moments. And then I was always a sports guy. I've always been able to pick apart the smaller things in the games. You know, I was a really good baseball player, believe it or not.

1:49:58I was a really good tennis player. You know, look, I used to be like 260 in high school playing tennis, you know? Really? Yeah, but I knew how to take advantage of all the smart sides of the game, you know? So I could pick apart, you know, if I did it this way, he's most likely going to hit the ball back that way. You know, I learned all the little things that would help out a slow fat guy, right? Right. So, and I did the same in baseball. It was really good at the things I could do really well. And I think that you just learned more that way. And then pool, I was super lucky, Joe. I mean, I mean, I was around the Buddy Halls, Jersey Reds.

1:50:32Never had a problem with it. Like Nick Vaughner or any of those guys helping me. And then I played Eiffelone all the time. You know, so learning the game, I learned it a lot. And but as far as the speaking side, I never thought twice about it too much. Just kind of do it. You know, like - But it's that you can articulate all the problems that can occur. Yeah, well, I mean, I've been teaching the last eight years that helps a little bit. But I just always been one to be able to see the table, like right after their break, I can see a lot. I think just visualize a lot. Recognize a problem pretty easily.

1:51:05And then I pay attention to where and understand it's probably the same thing in your field to where the mistakes are common. If you see if you see them coming, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, from one player to the next, whether it be the position they played, the stroke they made, you know what I mean, tip position, it doesn't matter. They're pretty common mistakes throughout the players. You just got to be able to recognize them. One of the things that I really love about the game is that there are these two sides of it. There is the quiet tournament play with the applause after a great run out.

1:51:36And then there's the pool hall, which is so different. Where people learn how to play pool and where people gamble playing pool. And then where they get really good, then all of a sudden they're doing some totally different thing. Now you're playing in this very professional tournament where you're wearing slacks and nice shoes and a golf shirt Oh yeah. It's fascinating that this is two different worlds. Yeah. And that's where the smarts come in. You kind of learn to live in both, right? Yeah. When you were coming up, was it more colorful than it is now? Do you think that like because there's so many more professionals now and they're so good?

1:52:16Yeah. And I think at times they're trained to be a little more machine like, you know what I mean? Like, oh, you can't lose this focus. You know, and where I watch some older tapes and I see some like, you know, I look at F -Rin for instance. Man, you can tell he's nervous, but he's enjoying it. You know, he was really a sportsman out there. And I think that's the one thing we're missing a little bit of. Not the playing side of things and of course the guys are coming. First Nally's. Exactly. And the good thing is they're getting a little more in front of the camera now. So I think it's starting to come out.

1:52:49Yeah, but it's just like you can't fake someone being a nut. Like you can't fake a Keith McQueenie type. Oh no, or even an Earl Strickland type character. Like that's just what they are. Exactly. Yeah, you can't just come up with lines trying to. It's just them. Yeah. Like, you know, if you ever hung out with Earl, I'm sure you have. Yeah. If he starts to tell you about stories of how we should be playing and where we should be at, it's some of the greatest experience you'll ever have because he's so genuine about it. Like he really truly believes we're supposed to be, you know, on the biggest stages.

1:53:23Yeah. Well, his commentary is awesome too. I love when he reviews matches. Yeah. Just does all by himself review it. You can learn a lot from the way he moves the ball around. Oh, yeah. It's very interesting just to hear the thought process behind it. Do you have a part of the game that you like more? Do you like the pool hall gambling part more or the tournament more? Oh, that's hard. They, but if like one of the things about pools, we got to clean up pool and stop gambling. You hear that all the time. And my thought is always like, no, you don't. Like, what are you doing? Oh, no. I mean, I think society today is fine with it.

1:54:01You know, of course you don't want like real bad, bad things happening or anything like that. And I haven't seen that like my career people asked me about. You know, a few times I was a little sketched about this or that. But I mean, you know, for the most part, I mean, just as easy as normal living overall, you know. You never got in a situation where you, I wouldn't say that. But how many situations did you get in where they were like real, well, give me one that's a touch and go. Well, you know, I think I told you I, you know, just being safe. I'd leave the pool room and not what the people you're gambling with.

1:54:34There was the people that knew cash was around. They weren't necessarily pool players or anything like that. Right. And so you'd leave the pool room and you drive around 20, 30 minutes if you're in a, you know, Charles and South Carolina or somewhere, you know, before you went back. Just to make sure no one's following you. Yeah, yeah. I was real lucky, you know, knocking on wood. I was never robbed in any farmer fashion. A few times I got warned. Maybe something. Guys were talking about things. Oh. Yeah. One time in LA I was not to go in too deep. Something I'll tell you later, but you know, there was kind of like some mobs to guys that were kind of kind of taking aim on me and a friend of mine.

1:55:13We had won a bunch of money around there like a hundred thousand. And yeah, they were trying to get it. So we got out there pretty quick. Yeah, and I was very fortunate to actually won the guys I beat out. I probably half the money is the one that told me. Really? Yeah, we had become friends and whatnot. And he just came in me one day and he kind of laid it on the line a little bit for me. Yeah. So time to get out of Dodge. Yeah. Yeah. Even though, you know, he was still one to have a stab at his money, of course. But, you know, we continued that later on. Well, that's nice of him to do. Oh, heck yeah.

1:55:47Well, we, like comics have favorite places to perform. You know, like Texas was always one of my favorite places to perform before I moved here. Is that the case with pool too? Is like there's like hotspot areas? Oh, absolutely. What causes these? You know, is it just like one great pool room and people sometimes you have some usually a stake horses? Really? Yeah, I mean, you know, you have some guys like I used to always bet my own money, you know, like my whole life. After my first divorce, my only divorce actually, but after my divorce, I kind of went on till a little bit. Yeah, you know, how it goes.

1:56:25I went on till, went on the road. I think I told you about that the other night, first time forever. I did that. So, you know, and have late when you gamble, it's more like you play one big set for 20 ,000. You don't start off like we used to do it three, four hundred game and you try to play for a while, you know. But yeah, stake horses have a big part to do with it. Good pool rooms. Have a big part to do with it. And then something that you just kind of know, like the Derby City Classic, right? Right. You know, there's 10 days of action the whole time. 24, 7. Someone needs to do a documentary about that.

1:56:58Yeah, they've done it. How did you people last few years, you know, 60 minutes was there for a little while? You know, I mean, like a real documentary. I know, yeah. Just in a night talked about that. Yeah. Like that is one of the wildest places on earth. Where for how many days is it? It's like 10 days right in the middle of winter. 10 days in the middle of winter. And where are they doing it now? It's at, it's in Elizabeth. It's right outside of Louisville right across the river in Indiana. Elizabeth Town is Indiana. It's at Caesars, the casino. And it's 10 days. Yes, 10 days. 10 days of all the pool players from all over the country in the world.

1:57:37Oh, yeah. Coming in and just going crazy. Yeah, well, they have the tournaments, of course. Yeah. Right. You got the main tournaments, the three main ones. Then you got some smaller ones. You got the all around. But then the action. Yeah. Like, you know, some of the big poker players come out there playing 40, 50 ,000 a game, 30. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, then guys, you know, they like their actions. That's the one wild agreement every year that everyone's going to go to this one. Yeah. And it's been going like 20 something years now, you know, since like 99 or 98. It's been going strong. Yes, someone's got to do a documentary on that.

1:58:13Yeah. The Derby City Classic's got a lot of memories. Because I think, you know, we've always talked about like a thing that could reignite pool. Like the color of money did it in the 80s. When that movie came out, pool halls opened up all over the country. Oh. Everybody wanted to play pool. And I feel like there's something like that that could be done today that would really ignite people's excitement in pool again. I always thought a sitcom with the right script, you know, like a real script. It might be a good documentary. Yeah, a documentary. A good documentary the Derby City might do it.

1:58:47Yeah. Well, they had some people, I think Alex Lately, you know him, right? He was the European coge, yeah. I think he did some stuff over there last year and he did some at Buffalo's trying to put something Netflix maybe. Oh, really? I, someone mentioned that. But yeah, he's interested in doing all that. If it's done right, you know, you go to the right places and meet the right people and see the right things. Yeah. It'd give people a window into something that they didn't even know existed. Yeah, well, one of those genius, you know, directors that can give it the right look, you know what I mean?

1:59:18Yeah, that's what I think Scorsese did real well with the color of money. The scene where Tom Cruise and Keith McCready are talking shit to each other and playing in the pool hall. That's a fucking classic scene. Yeah, there's a bunch of them in there though. Yeah, a bunch of classic scenes. But that kind of atmosphere, that kind of place. Like that's Derby City. Oh, 100 %. Derby City for 10 days. 100 %, yeah. And some of the best players in the world. Yeah, and they're scrambling around like, I mean, because you want to get a bet, you know what I mean? There's like 50 tables in this place. This might be going on over there.

1:59:54You got to scramble down here to go because there's guys there just to gamble, you know? Right. I mean, don't even bring their cues. They're just betting on the side. And they just trying to find a side they like and bet their bankroll, you know? Like, let's get the quick double up one time. What's the legality of that? Well, you know, for a few years, it seemed like about the fifth, sixth day, there's start to be some guys coming around. Oh, you're supposed to be gambling. But it seems like the last couple of years there hasn't. No one's ever gotten trouble. It's just kind of like, all right, now we've got to not talk about it for.

2:00:28But we're talking about it on a podcast. A million of people are going to hear. I know, but just in front of these guys with the suits. They can't talk about it. Or maybe an hour or two before they leave. Or, you know, they're just roaming around. But the last couple of years, I haven't heard of any problems at all. I just love that a place like that exists. Well, they got to realize, okay, I can understand that they got a casino. And they'd rather you gambling in the casino. But that tournament still brings a ton of casino action for them. Oh, my God. Through the roof. For sure. Oh, his family junkies.

2:01:02I'm the liable. Yeah. I'm your story about losing all the money instantaneous 100 % yeah. Yeah. A lot of people over there have gotten beat out of 10, you know. Next day, they can't play the same game because the guy went and blew the 10 and the casino. I heard a story about Alex Pagulian winning a tournament and then flipping a coin for the winnings and losing. I don't know. I watched him flip one for 10 at Griff's. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he lost that one. Yeah. Now, that's an adrenaline rush. I've never bet 10. I bet five on a coin. I have you really? Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Did you win? Oh, yeah. Did you keep going?

2:01:41No. And the guy never looked at the coin. The guy was gambling with an huge. What? The Derby City class. Yes. This is a 60 minutes piece that was just posted. Yeah. Interesting. Wow. What are they all? Oh, right. This is where Shane talks. Oh, look at that. No, he's smoking no gambling. But this is in this he talks about who what is the big guy that was shooting right there right there? No, who's that guy? As John Rivera -Beland, the poker player. Oh. He's one pocket like nut. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Big action guy. Yeah. Yeah. Shane. In that, I saw an interview with him. I didn't see this, but I saw an interview with him where they talk about how he doesn't gamble.

2:02:24Yeah. Well, you know, he plays those matches that are of course being bet on and you know, he makes money from that. But I mean, he's not going to go around trying to, you know, pick on a game or anything like that. Yeah, when you're five time US open winner. Yeah. A good luck. Well, you know, well, you know, well, I mean, you give up the wrong game now. Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, yeah. You have to give up a crazy spot. Yeah, I bet on you against him, but, you know, let me make the game. Yeah, exactly, right? But he, you know, directed that energy towards trying to be the best in the world and, you know, it's paid off pretty well for him.

2:02:58Yeah. It's, it's a, it's always to me fascinating to watch a person who rises above all like what are they doing different? Like what's going on? How are they doing this so much better than everybody else? Yeah. You know, with him, it's just the obsessive practice and just this fucking focus that he has. Yeah, that's the one that, you know, I think any of us can practice and at times I feel like his practice could be better. And I don't mean an unfairly meaning like get a little more out of it sometimes. Like I've seen him shoot, they're sitting there shooting a 900 mile an hour jacked up stop shot for hours.

2:03:39And you mean that's going to come up like once every year? It does. I know, I know, I know there's a lot to get back on, but the thing that I was getting at is he's just a unique individual with the focus. Like when he gets those crazy eyes, when those eyes, the oxygen starts out and they're going to, oh my god. I'm like, all right, we're home. We're good. Because if the balls lay tough, no one's beating them. You know, if both players get a tough layout, no one's beating them. So when you are the coach of the Moscone Cup, is he the guy that you're like most happy is in the clinch? Yeah. I mean, I was talking about earlier last night with my buddies, the ones you met.

2:04:18And the best thing for me coming to Moscone as far as a decision is Hill Hill. And do I got to pick Scholar or Shane to play that Hill Hill match? Pretty good decision. Yeah, it's just because you know, you got to say Shane's the pride that picked most of the time. But I mean, Scholar's one of those that may prove you different that week. You know, I mean, it may be like a no brainer. You know, so. And the Moscone Cup is fascinating because it's, it's, they openly encouraged cheering. Like, it's so, why? I'm so, let's hear this, hear the volume on this. Ward pressure packs up. That was when, yeah, that's 2018 when we won after losing eight years in a row.

2:05:07But so these, I don't think that crowds like how are they so much different for the Moscone Cup? I mean, they're singing and dancing. And yeah, they're, you know, USA versus Europe. Oh, yeah, it's big, you know, they're, I mean, all those countries, they're big on that, I mean, soccer fans, I mean, just freaking crazy. Is that okay? Is that, is that better? Would that make it more exciting for people cheered in between shots, but didn't do it at all while the guys down on the ball? Like if, because it seems like they're good at that. Well, they somewhat get almost settled, you know, occasionally you still have something peep out.

2:05:43Are you settled down? Yeah. Yeah. Well, your call, the first place, it was a small venue, only 600 is when I started. Now that one had like 3000, I think, right on top of you, you know what I mean? Right on top of you. You can feel everyone's energy, but your call, they used to have like laser pointers. The crowd did and they'd point at the nine ball. The red, why were you, I mean, they were ruthless. Yeah, because they had two sessions, a noon and a six. So they started drinking about 1130, well, about a time the six o 'clock come, there were fights every time. I mean, it was unbelievable. Yeah.

2:06:17I mean, but amongst friends that came together, you know what I mean? Like those Englishers. Ooh. But it's so much different than any other pool tournament. And one of the things I was thinking was Jamie and I, Jamie showed me that golf tournament where they play in front of a giant audience. And Phoenix, you mean? Yeah. Like that's amazing. Yeah. Like that's what a great idea where everybody cheering and screaming. Oh, yeah. And maybe that's a thing that like with the Moscone Cup, if you had a high stakes game like that where people in the audience reacted like that. Oh, yeah. Maybe that would get more people engaged.

2:06:54Well, I think that, but the thing they were the long ones, man, they just played too long races or raised a hundred. I mean, come on. Let's cut it up and do three out of five races or nine or something. You know, something that's going to keep your attraction. You mean people want to watch it. Yeah. And you know, the big nine ball tournaments now, you know, the ones I've been traveling for and working, the fans are getting like the Moscone every time they're getting closer and closer. Really? Yeah. Real smart fans, real energetic. I mean, going crazy, singing in between games. Real. Yeah, it's getting better.

2:07:25Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. So is that encouraged? Heck yeah. We want. So you want people to be more engaged because it was always very quiet. Well, the thing is the players are loosening up a little more. So, you know, the fans are going to follow what the players, they want to engage with the players. So like at the Moscone, you see Jason Shaw getting them going and whatnot, you know, and we get them going as well. And that's starting to happen a little more on the regular tour now, the players are starting to engage with the fans more. Interesting. Yeah. Well, that might be a thing that helps a lot, but it is nice to see all the streaming and match room and the predator series and all these different things that are happening.

2:08:05So much pool, right? So much pool. It's all over the place. And there's some dollars out now. I mean, it is, you know, and even like the regional ones, right? Like Texas Open, it's not considered a pro pro on its calendar tournament, but you know it's pro quality, right? Yeah. Great players, but I mean, this event has gone from 15 ,000 added maybe 20 to like almost 50 now with all. Yeah. I mean, everything is going up. That's great. It makes it crazy. It's crazy game. Heck, yeah. Yeah, I'm always trying to encourage more people to play it. I just want it to be more popular. Yeah. Well, you fall serious into it pretty quick.

2:08:42Once you get down on the ball, it becomes, I can tell it comes pretty serious. I just don't have enough time. If I had more time, I could play better. Yeah. And I work out too much and lifting weights is literally the enemy of pool because it just your arm is not communicating with like fine motor skills that well. Oh. You know, it's just like it stiffens everything up. So it takes hours for me to get loosened up. Couple of times. A couple of times I got broke on that broke, but I lost when I shouldn't have, I went bowling and I didn't bowl very hardly ever. So I went bowling the night before I ended up playing the next day, right?

2:09:20Just like three, four games of bowling, a little 16 pound ball. I ain't nothing to it, but I couldn't draw my cue ball the next day. This little right here, this little muscle right here, it wasn't, oh, it wouldn't, it wouldn't keep going. It would like kind of swing and quit. Swinging and quit. It was unbelievable. And then the same thing with darts, believe it or not. If you like, you play darts for like a bunch of, yeah, exactly. Yeah. You just get, it just messes up that little sensation you want, you know, so. Yeah, I always found the worst was curls. When you did curls, kill you and play.

2:09:55Yeah. I feel just nothing. Just numb and stupid. Yeah. Well, Willie Hoppe apparently wouldn't even drive his car when he had to play. Willie Hoppe, I wish I would have met him. The ones say he was a, he was a character. Of course all the old guys were. All of them. Yeah. Fats was like, uh, everyone loved him. We read a statistic once that at the turn of the century, New York had something like 900 pool halls. Wow. See that's true. In 1900, I think in the 1900, New York had some absurd number of pool halls. Wow. Well, Houston had a ton of them whenever I played a 900 sounds nuts. Now you talk about the state in New York state.

2:10:35No, the city in the city of New York. Wow. That might never true. Yeah. Cause I think Houston had one of the most back in like the 90s. And they had this was in like the 1900s. Yeah. Yeah. See what you're saying. It was like the early 1900s. Yeah. Well, Houston was so great because it was like going on the road yourself. Everyone had every pool room had their own little champion. Every pool. Yeah. Their own little like, you know, pool pool nut guys, you know, pool groupie kind of guys, you know, like, and so you could go from pool to pool and really, just play, play your heart out. Do you miss those days?

2:11:10Absolutely. Yeah. Cause I see it in your eyes, but you talk about your eyes twinkle. Yeah. Okay, look at this. Okay, I'm wrong. 117. That's still incredible. Why do I think it was 900? Cause I exaggerated everything. The game was legalized in 1904 by 1935. There was 117 pool halls in the city. That is pretty nuts though still. Well, it's amazing because it's during prohibition that, you know, 117 pool Well, you know, they end up taking them out, right? And that one thing that happened during prohibition, I think is anything to do with any kind of gaming that promoted in some areas. I think New York was one of them.

2:11:46Really? Ju boxes end up going away. That's interesting. I think pool tables end up going away until the end of prohibition. The number of license pool halls has grown to 169 from 140 in Los Angeles, where alcohol and food are permitted. The number of license pools, all pool halls has grown from 169 to from 140, five years ago. The city clerk said so they had 169 pool halls at what time? This was the 1987. Really? Right after the color of money. Right after the color of money. That makes sense. Yeah. Wow. In the last two years, Manhattan has two pool halls for all of us. Survive. In the Iowa city based billiard congress of America.

2:12:29Okay. That's what it was. Hmm. Yeah, there's poor rooms everywhere. You know, like this right after the movie, just a oh, look at the newer movies caused a maxi resurgence in the game. Wow. Yeah, I mean, I remember watching that being fascinated. That was before I was really playing. Going, wow. Yeah, I didn't watch it and then play. I actually was. That was 86. I think it came out. I think so. Yeah, 86. I started 88. So I played about three or four months before I got turned on that movie. And I was like, oh, okay. Which I'm Paul Newman's my favorite anyways, my favorite actor. So that was his first Oscar, you know, executive billiards where I used to play.

2:13:12They had a VHS player and they played the hustler all the time, all the time. To the point where like everybody in the pool hall could like say the words. They knew it. They knew every line. Whenever great movie has a sad story, though. So I don't believe it was a fucking bomber man. Yeah. They made some bomber movies back then. Yeah. Well, big parts of it would be so sad. It had, you know, it had great highs, right? But I mean, like when he's beating fats, but then you just know what's coming. And it's just about there about the next hour of the movie. He's just like tear jerker. Yeah. Another thing that was amazing about that movie is how good Jackie Gleason played.

2:13:50Oh, yeah. Jackie Gleason could really play watching the difference. She's watching a guy like Tom Cruise or watching a guy like Paul Newman. Tom Cruise was better than Paul Newman. But Jackie Gleason looked like a real player. Yeah, it wasn't painful to watch. You know, not at all. It wasn't like lifting the cue up with every shot. Like some scenes with Newman, where you got to shoot that. Don't do that. Don't lift the cue up as you're shooting. That's ridiculous. Yeah. When he's breaking the balls and the one scene, I think it comes up. But he shot a ball like with follow and like lifted the cue up at the same like stay down, stay down.

2:14:24Yeah. Great actor though. Oh, yeah. But all his shots were kind of like trick shots. Yeah. A little more, you know. They looked okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It looked okay. It wasn't offensive, you know. No, no, no, no. But Jackie Gleason looked like a player. Like the way he would stroke the ball. Like, wow. And you could see him making break shots. Like you see his whole body. Oh, yeah, moving the cue up and all that. Well, they say he was a, a rack boy, I think, at one time as a kid. And then just was a real character like a bull hole kind of guy. So make sense. Yeah, yeah, for sure. All his, all his roles he kind of played.

2:15:00And not later in his years, but you know, the honeymooners and what not. It seemed like the kind of guy that could fit in the pool hall pretty well. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of again, a lot of charisma. It's just interesting that that one movie, which was like this massive movie where he plays a serious character. And it's not funny at all. Oh, you would never even imagine that that's the same guy from the honeymooners. I know. You know, yeah, because he hardly ever smiles the entire movie in the house. So I don't know if he ever did. Nope. He's just a no nonsense killer. Yeah. What was the guy? He's one of my favorite actors too.

2:15:33A guy that played a steak horse. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you for that second. God damn it. Oh no. It's on tip of my time. George, he's got that's right. My brother be hot at me if I didn't remember that name. Yeah. Oh my God. He was phenomenal. He was great. And Piper Laurie. Yeah. He's phenomenal. The whole movie. Yeah. It's an amazing movie. It's, it holds up too. It's one of those movies that really holds up. You go back and watch it and you go. Man, and then the style of film they did back there was more quiet. There was a music playing in every moment that told you how to think.

2:16:03You know, the movie played itself out. Yeah, well, the scenes, the setting. Yeah, I told you a ton about what was going on. You know, like in the pool hall of names. I guess it was. Yeah, same as Mr. Yeah, exactly. And you didn't take a whole lot of words to get the feeling of what, you know, everyone was about the movie. So what I thought they did pretty well at that and the color money as well. Yeah. You know what I'm saying for the most part? Yeah, for the most part. Because you could say not many had a lot of lines besides Tom, you know, Mary Lisbeth, Master Antonio, I think it was in Paul Newman.

2:16:39Everyone else was just bits and pieces. So, but it did capture the feeling that you get from that. I wonder how many people like became pool hosts or after the hustler? How many people saw that movie? Because back then they didn't have very many movies. Oh, no. Those were two of the big, those are two of the biggest. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder how many people that probably caused a resurgence in 63 as well. I would, I would say so. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. I think it did pretty well overall. I was a huge movie. Yeah. Did it win anything? Who gives a shit about that? I was saying, you know, like I was saying, I think, I think the color of money is actually Paul Newman's first Oscar win.

2:17:17Really? Yeah. He got, he got the nominated a few times, but never actually wanted. At least I checked the hustler first. Right? Yeah. Best in photography, best art direction, best actors, best picture. Wow. Best in acting screenplay. Wow. When everything. Yeah. Jesus. Holy shit. Yeah. I wonder who won best actor that year besides Paul Newman. Yeah. I think that was the thing about the color of money, like they had to give it to him because he hadn't won it yet. Yeah. Maybe he was good in it though. Oh, he's phenomenal. Yeah. He was really good. It's a great movie. Challenge of Taurus, one of my favorites too.

2:17:50Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I just love movies that, you know, it's not offensive. It really does capture what it's like in these places. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, you know, me correct that it was nominated for most of those. I just said which ones did it win? One art direction cinematography. Oh, damn it. Still a little bit of what we talked about. Yeah. For the most part. Exactly. Yeah. Art direction cinematography were so important in that movie. That place aims if that doesn't exist. Someone needs to build it. I think it did. That's right. I think it did. And not anymore. But probably they filmed in a pool hall.

2:18:25They wouldn't set up a new pool hall. No, I think it did. I think in fact, maybe it's in another book or another something to do with pool, I think is in it's quoted from that movie. So what was the name of the original place? You know, what was it really called? Macarres and names. Yeah. Two places that were defuncted. Says. Yes. They were defunct before. Yes. And most of the action was filmed at two. Oh, and now defunct pool. So I guess I don't know whenever they're writing now if it was time they're writing it or the time that they're shooting it. Oh. It says Macarres and names. Billioed academies where they shot it.

2:18:59Yeah. I think those were real places. That's color of money or the hustler. A hustler. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Now, I think now the one that the one that I didn't like in the color of money is whenever the two men in a stranger kind of. Oh, yeah. I didn't. That doesn't really. You're trying to get someone in real trouble with something like that. Yeah. But but a lot of that other stuff though. Yeah. I mean, you know, kind of like I said earlier with Shema, you know, I wasn't like not. I just kind of wanted to see him play. Right. Because I knew it wasn't going to end up for 200. Even if we didn't play that was just going to be it, you know what I mean?

2:19:34But I wasn't going to be in real action for 200. So let me just kind of evaluate him. Yeah. And that you can kind of see that in the color of money when he's kind of. He's figuring out the right way to do it. How Paul's teaching him. Mm hmm. And he's, you know, handing over small bank rolls, but then getting bigger bank rolls in return. You know, when he wins, you know what I mean? So that kind of stuff happened a lot actually. I love the forest Whitaker scene. Oh, yeah. Forest Whitaker. Can I ask you a question? Yeah. Do you think I should lose weight? That was a big dig though. Big dig. But another good one, Forest Whitaker.

2:20:09But he actually looked like he had a little stroke. Yeah. A little something. Yeah. Yeah, you could play a little. Yeah. Yeah. There's quite a few out there that like the game. Well, didn't Mike Siegel coach them? Oh, I wouldn't doubt that. I know he coached Paul Tom Cruise. Tom Cruise, yeah. There were a few of them around. A guy worked with last night. Were you guys, Jamie? Yeah. You're right. I'm looking at it right now. Oh, yeah. Yeah, Larry Schwartz. A guy from Chicago. You may have heard of him. He worked on that. And it was in that movie as well. I did commentary with him last night. He's a matter of fact.

2:20:37Well, my big fear is that the game will somehow under the slide away. It doesn't seem like that's how I was worried about that for a while. Yeah. It doesn't seem like that's happening anymore. Now, there's an international resurgence. Yeah, well, the amateur side league pool. You know, there's so many right. And the consumer market's so good right now. I think it's just going to go up and up. Yeah, I hope so. I think so too. And maybe a solid documentary in the Derby City or something. There you go. I don't have a lot of stuff in here, but having challenge matches in here and streaming them. Yeah.

2:21:09I would do commentary. Oh, yeah. So that's still on the table. Yeah, there you go. I just have to find some time. Yeah, well, you know, a commentator. I do. I know the best. He's right here. As long as it's pool. Yeah, pool baseball. I could do a little baseball. Maybe a little golf. That's about it. A pool. You're the man. Well, thank you, Jeremy. Thanks for being here. I appreciate it. It was a lot of fun. Absolutely. All right. Let's go play some pool. Bye, everybody.

2:21:42I'm going to play some pool. Yeah.