#2045 - Jimmy Carr

23:54Right. And they watch everything in English. YouTube doesn't bother translating things. Yeah. So everyone's English is kind of gone up again. So you can go to quite obscure places. And everyone wants to come out and see startup comedy. And they all know who you are. Yeah. And they're all listening. It's kind of, it's an amazing way to see the world. It is. It is an amazing way to see the world. And it is interesting how comedy translates into these other places and how they how they absorb comedy. It's very different. Like I took Tony to Stockholm. We did a sweet. It was great. It was great. But he was like, dude, I feel like I bombed.

24:29I go, you did really well. Why? He goes, cause there was like, there were quiet in between the jokes. I was like, that's interesting. Yeah. You go to some places though in it's like I'm a good laugh and stuff laughs. And then at the end of the show. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's like, it's more like a theatrical performance is the thing that they've seen before. Yes. Yes. I'm like, they laughed at all your jokes. He's like, yeah, I know, but it just like felt like it was disjointed. I go, you're just used to these rowdy American crowds that like there's always noise going on. Well, you used to, if you used to play in the clubs as well.

25:05Yes. I play mainly theatre. So if I go into a club, I'm very just, oh, they're serving drinks. Right. During the set, this is what's going on. What's happening here? Yeah. But of course, because you're not in that field, there's certain countries where you'll get a standing ovation like Canada, America, Australia. Love a standing ovation. They're getting up to leave anyway. They might as well. The UK, the reason Christ could come on stage and they'd go, yeah, I don't, I don't think. Well done. It's like, that's just not the thing. Why is that? Or maybe it's me. My friends from the UK that have come to America, one of the things that they've all sort of said is that in the UK, they kind of want you to not do well.

25:44And whereas in America, they sort of celebrate you succeeding. I think culturally, if you think about what America is about, it's, you know, it's, it really, I suppose it dares to dream. It's, there's a bit of a tall poppy syndrome in the UK where people do too well. It's like, well, let's cut him down to silence. Whereas America is, is for, you know, dreamers and they're going to do something and they're going to, it's exciting. I mean, Austin's got a real feel at the moment for, you know, that every city whispers to you. Yeah. So Los Angeles says be more famous in New York, says make more money and Austin seems to be saying be creative and weird and.

26:21They're happy we're here too. That's, it's really cool. It's like they've embraced it because, you know, a scene moved into a city where there's, there's 15 world class comedians that live here now that didn't live here three years ago. Was Ron White the first? Yes. Yeah, Ron White's a guy that means nothing in the UK like he's not famous in the UK. I can't see why he's so good. He's so good and he's retired except for my club. So he's at the club all the time. Well, if you got Polaroids at him, what if you go over here? He loves me. That poor man's trying to retire and you keep on dragging him.

26:57He doesn't really want to retire. He just wants to not travel anymore. And I said, Ron, you don't have to travel. You can get a new crowd every night of the week. Anytime you want, you can go up. And so he'll just text me, you know, hey, you doing a show tonight? I'm like, fuck yeah, you coming? He's like, fuck yeah. And then he comes down and he's doing acid and it's fucking, he's an animal. He's so fun and he's so good. And it's like for him, it's taken all the negativity out of stand -up comedy, which is the travel and the weirdness. He just leaves his house, drives 15 minutes. He's at the club, does a set, hangs out.

27:35We all party and laugh and have fun. And then he leaves. And so he's there three, four nights a week sometimes. That's fantastic. Oh, it's so much fun. I like the travel. I've got to say. I like everything about... No, I think that thing when you have a job, when you're living your dream, you're doing what you want to do in life. I think it's on you to enjoy all of it. So the airport lounge is under delays and the early mornings or whatever, or the flights. The whole thing, you have to embrace it all. Good for you. I'm glad you take that perspective. That's very healthy. Yeah, that's what everybody should take.

28:05But is that thing, isn't it, where the thing in life, disposition is more important than position? Yes. How you are in your head. We all know billionaires that are miserable. Yes. And people sweep in the streets very happy. Yes. And it's that thing of disposition. And it seems to be, I know it's trite, but it seems to be the thing is gratitude. Yes. If you gratitude is the cure for resentment. Yes. And there's so much resentment around. It's such a maligned word because it gets attached to wool, wool, bullshit, and people wear wooden beads. It gets attached to posing. But I think it's... I think gratitude is what it is.

28:41People imagine it's about the thing. Like the environment is the thing we should be grateful for. Like that we live in this time. You know that Stephen Pinker enlightenment now book. You could sort of go, well now. Yeah. Now there's like I had a hot shower this morning. No one before 1930, no one had had one. Right. People didn't know what hot showers were. They washed once a week in cold water. Good luck everyone. I want everyone's milk disgusting. Like the world that we live in now is so fucking great. Yeah. And we just don't appreciate it because we're so accustomed to it. Well, it's that...

29:15What do they call that? It's the hedonic treadmill. You get used to the good things really quickly. Yes. And so you're searching for more. But you look around. It's just it's an extraordinary... Well, the idea that like comedy is a thing at the moment. Imagine if we'd been born in the 1940s. Well, you got not really... We don't have that. I guess we could have gone on before the band and said something. But it wasn't quite... Like the people that start... Who were the first people in America? Lenny Bruce. Lenny Bruce. But Lenny Bruce. He was really the first to do... Our style of comedy. Yeah.

29:47But it was our style of comedy where he's just talking about life. Everybody before that was like, two Jews walked into a bar. They buy it. Yeah. It was like, set up punchline. I mean, I do all... I mean... This episode is brought to you by Life Lock. Tax season is already stressful. You shouldn't have to worry about identity theft on top of everything else. And trust me, it's a big worry. Especially since during tax season, your sensitive info does a lot of traveling to places you can't control. It goes through payroll. You're accountant. You're tax consultant. And countless other data centers on its way to the IRS.

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32:48It's very old -timey really in a sense because I do jokes so they stand and fall. It's very high -wire. It's binary. This is funny or not. There's no story behind it that you can sometimes I do longer form. But really it's quite like old school jokes but you're Lenny Bruce, George Carlin, like people that start playing theaters and clubs and like to draw a crowd. So you won't just... And then prior was the first one to really do it well. I never think Dick Gregory gets enough. He doesn't get it in that process. People don't talk about what he did in part of the struggle and he's incredible as a figure.

33:22He's also the one that exposed the Kennedy assassination. I didn't know that. Dick Gregory went on the Haraldor Rivera show 12 years after Kennedy was assassinated. Who had conspiracy theories 35 minutes in? I have a fucking every 20 minutes. Wait a second, so hang on. I know he was at a big part in the civil rights movement. And was incredibly brave. He's kind of chew a great documentary, like a proper Judd Apatow, three hour Dick Gregory, his everything you need to know, documentary. I would love that. Yeah, I would love a documentary on him as well. We've been saying his praises many, many times.

34:02Oh, they did. Oh, the one that only did Gregory, 2021. Wait a second. Showtime have a time machine and they used it to steal this idea. I think so. Motherfuckers. I mean, he was fantastic during the Vietnam War. He was fantastic during the civil rights movement. So get back to the Kennedy thing. So he went on the Haraldor Rivera show in 1975. And so this is 12 days. He's older. He's older. Yeah. So, but he looked good back. The only thing that's pretty fucking good now. So Dick Gregory went on and he went on with the subruder film. And it was the first time the subruder film was ever exposed to the public.

34:37So, Haraldor Rivera played the subruder film and you see Kennedy grabbing his neck where he got shot from the front. And Dick Gregory brought it on. Yes, Dick Gregory brought the film to Haraldor and played it. And our next guest is a comedian for a bit of light relief. He's going to show you this group of people. How many concert gigs did you do? How many appearances on the video he talks about it because it's the longest twin -minute video. Okay. Well, screw ahead. So he shows the video Kennedy being shot and then he goes, and I'm going to be at the laugh factory. And Miami Beach on Thursday comes to me.

35:12The fact of that is to make more people watch it. Well, I'm telling you, right straight out that if you are at all sensitive, if you're at all queasy, then don't watch this film. Just put on the late night movie because this is very heavy. It's the film shot by the Dallas Dress Manufacturer Abraham Zapruder. And it's the execution of President Kennedy. And Bob and Dick, would you please narrate what we're seeing as we show this film? This is a commercial footage leading into Dele Plaza. This is the car on Main Street. So this film was taken by actual newsmen. This was spliced together with the Abraham's Apruder film.

36:02Yes. All right. So this is the beginning of the motorcade. What you're seeing now is in slow motion so to can grasp what is happening. This is a film taken by Marie Muchmore that leads into this Zapruder film. It's for time continuity. The President is waving to the crowd here. And Jacqueline Kennedy, of course, is sitting alongside him in the open car. Right. This is from where we'll nix this film. This is originally 8 -millimeter footage. And they're heading now toward Elm Street. They're on Houston Street now. They're going to make a left hand turn. It's on the corner where they're going to make the turn there that the book depository was.

36:41Now this is this Zapruder film. Okay. So the cars are coming along now into Dele Plaza? Yes. These are the lead motorcycles of the motorcade. All right. Now with the President and Mrs. Kennedy is also Governor Connolly. Right. Now before he goes behind the sign, the President is waving to the crowd. When he comes out from behind the sign, he is shot. And then Governor Connolly is shot. He's already been hit. He's already been hit.

37:06And now... That's the shot that blew off his head. It's the most horrifying thing I've ever seen in the movie. It is. I'm not going to say anything. I'm not going to say anything. It's genuinely shocking what you're going to know. It's genuinely shocking. But it was the first time people saw that his head moves back into the left, indicating a shot from the front. And that fell against the narrative that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. There was a ton of eyewitnesses that said that they heard gunshots from the grassy knoll. And then there was also this ridiculous magic bullet that they had to attribute to Lee Harvey Oswald's gun because there was one bullet that had hit an underpass and ricocheted and hit a person.

37:46So they knew that one of the bullets that got shot, missed Kennedy, hit the underpass, hit a curb, and ricocheted and hit this guy and he got brought to the hospital. So... How on earth do we not have an answer to this now? Well... It seems. They keep hiding the data. They won't release it. In 2017, they were supposed to do the release it. They wouldn't release it then. It was again, I believe in 2021, they were supposed to release it. It's very odd. I mean, conspiracy theories are like... They're sort of fascinating because they're simple solutions to complex problems. So a lot of them, I kind of go, wow, you know, I'm not sure whether there's any validity in that.

38:25It just seems like an easy solution to this thing, which is incredibly nuanced and complex. But the Kennedy thing, you go, well, how... It's the president got shot. Right, but... How could they have covered this now? 1963. I mean, you had... There was no independent journalism. There was no YouTube. There was no online commentators that weren't captured by a system. They weren't a part of an enormous structure, like in New York Times, the Washington Post or whatever the fuck it was. And these, a pruder film again, had been archived for 13 years before it was... Or 12 years. 12 or 13? I didn't realize that.

39:08I kind of mentioned. I assumed, stupidly, that he got shot and the film came out in the next week. No, no, it didn't. 12 years. I believe it was set... Was it 75 that it came out? I remember reading it in the... It was like the death... Sorry, frame, like frame 313 or something like that that hadn't been seen. They did have it as a pruder film and they posted a lot of it in the screenshots and like life. In Life Magazine. Because Life Magazine owned it. But they left some of it out. And then somehow another dick Gregory acquired it and that was around 75. And that's when he aired it on television.

39:41That's true. And when he aired on television, it just opened up everyone's eyes. They're like, well, anyone who'd ever seen anything get shot knows that... When you get hit with something from the back, you don't go back towards the shot. The impact throws the head back. You see the spray of the bullets and it appears he's getting hit multiple times from multiple angles. What's your feeling on it? I mean, you've looked into it. You're a big conspiracy guy. But who do you think orchestrated? Jeff Kays. That's a good question. I mean Tucker Carlson came out on television and said that CIA killed Kennedy.

40:12And I think that's probably one of the reasons why he could remove from Fox. I don't know who did it. I really would be... I'm a main fan of my ass. I'm a deathbed confession or something. Because I mean, conspiracy is more broadly. You kind of go, well, it involves cognitive dissonance. Wasn't there a deathbed confession from E Howard Hunt? I was going to say there was something, but I didn't. Yeah, I think it was E Howard Hunt, who was one of the people that was supposedly on the grassy knoll. There was Woody Harrelson's father was supposed to be involved in this too. It was apparently a hit man.

40:43There was, according to the law, the last confessions of E Howard Hunt. The ultimate keeper of secrets regarding who killed Jeff Kays. And I think... Yeah, that's how you keep a secret. A pipe. I think on his deathbed, he was involved in the conspiracy to kill the president. I don't know who was involved. I mean, I think it was probably a bunch of people. There was a lot of people that wanted Kennedy out of there. I mean, he wanted some pretty radical changes. He wanted to disband the intelligence agencies. He thought that secrecy was a warrant. And he talked about it openly. And there's one speech that he gave about secret societies.

41:20Well, it's odd that thing for me. I mean, I'm kind of thinking about maybe doing a bit about this. About saying, look, because it involves two thoughts. You've got to believe the government are... There's a deep state that is sort of geniuses. You can cover these things up. I can fake a moon landing. And also, the government are idiots. They can't organize anything. Well, it's different. What I want to do. You can't say the government, right? Because the government is a blanket. That's like saying drugs. Drugs are bad. Well, I'm drinking coffee. And it's not bad. Everybody drinks coffee. For that thing of like going to drug.

41:50What we need is some of those guys from the deep state over here for a week to deal with the regular shit. We need someone on transit duties. We need someone from the deep state to look at hospitals. Well, in a lot of ways, those are more complex issues than assassinating someone and covering it up. Because back then, again, there's... It's not like information today where people have... Like everyone has a cell phone. Like if you... If the Kennedy assassination happened today, there would be footage from a hundred different angles. Yes. There would be so many people there and we would... It's amazing.

42:21The resolution footage is really... It is. It was just because he was so important and back then, you know, there were a few people that were enthusiasts that had their own personal... And the thing with... The thing, I guess, with conspiracy is... It's some of its true. Like the biggest conspiracy, I think, probably of our lifetime, was PD Filio in the Catholic Church. Yeah. I remember that being talked about when I was a kid. How about in the UK? My mother was crazy. Jimmy Savile. Just hiding in plain stuff. Crazy is that. And that guy looks like a pedophile. I mean, he looked like S .A .J. Like he is fucking creep.

42:55Here's the story I heard on Jimmy Savile, which is interesting. He had a big show on TV called Jimmel Fixit, which was him making dreams come true for kids or whatever. They'd write in with a wish. And he'd make them come through. But he had that nickname before. So he was kind of a fixer. You know, he invented the turn table. The two... Two record players together. That turn table. Oh, like for a DJ? Like for a DJ? He invented the dual turn table. I mean... Not all bad. Pretty much all bad. 99 .9 % bad. 99 % bad. Real bad. Yeah. What was my joke about him? He was the... It's a very British joke.

43:33But Jimmy Savile, the only man in human history to have fucked more miners than Thatcher. Oh, that requires quite a lot of information about mining, Margaret Thatcher, what she did to the miners, and also... It's a long way to go. It's a good joke though. But the... Yeah, no, he was hiding in plain sight and was part of the establishment. Yeah. But I think that thing of like going... The story I was told was he was kind of connected very high up because of what he did in terms of fixing things. So the guy that... Are you familiar with the Profumar affair? No. So it was the idea that the minister for...

44:07I think the Ministry of Defence was having... He was having an affair with a lady. He was also Christine Keeler, who was also having an affair with a Russian agent. And she had been procured by this other guy who then got assassinated. Oh, they think got assassinated. And so I think... The story I heard was Jimmy Savile had a similar role for procuring certain things for certain people. Interesting. So I wonder what he was doing for the police or for the Secret Service that gave him... What gave him... Right. That ability to... That immunity. Total immunity. Well, that's what's the really scary idea is that there's a ring of people that are pedophiles.

44:47That's what terrifies people. That there's a ring of powerful people that... That's the... You know, if you want to go full QAnon, tinfoil hat, that's... But I think that is... I presume Jimmy Savile was acting alone. I mean, I presume that's... But why? But why... Why would he presume that? Why cover it up? I don't... I mean, what if other people were also involved? What if other people were also doing the same thing? It was a terrifying thing. I mean, there's a similar case in America with Sandusky, you know, who... Jerry Sandusky. He was the coach that did a lot of things with kids and work with kids.

45:26And everybody had this image that he was a great guy. When it turns out the entire time he had been molesting kids. It's pretty horrific. Yeah, it's horrific, but that's often the role they play. The role they play as... Well, they have to get themselves to a primitive mission with it. Close to... Yes. Which is like Boy Scout Masters and Priests. Which is... You know, it's a terrible thing because you know, something like the Scouts, which is very good for kids. Go and play together and learn those things and those skills. It's a great organization. And yet that's absolutely fucking ruined it.

45:57That's the first thing you think of now when you think of the Scouts. Well, the Catholic Church is the greatest example of that, right? I mean, you cannot say Catholic priest without someone thinking pedophile. There's no other occupation on earth that has such a connection to pedophilia. Yeah. And so, someone was talking to me about the history of the Catholic Church and what happened. And the idea of the thing that turned the Catholic Church bad was the plague. Really? No. So the plague hit in the Middle Ages. And before then, the priest was the smartest guy you'd ever met. Smartest guy in the town became a...

46:34Could read last guy. Could read. This guy can read. Right. There's just shapes on a page to us. But like had access to books, was reading, was the most erudite brilliant guy. The bishop was even smarter than that. The pope was a genius. Great. So the plague happens. And the plague wipes out. I think it's a third of the European population, but it might have been more than that. And it wiped out a third of regular people. But it wiped out 90 % of priests because priests had to give last rights. So they were around the plague more than regular people. I need the last rights I'm dying. Okay. Then he dies.

47:07Right. So the barrier to entry for getting into the priesthood went from... You've got to be great to... You seem to have all your own teeth and you can string a sentence together. You'll be great. So all of that stuff that comes after downstream of that, like the... You know, the plenary indulgences, this thing where you could buy your way into heaven in the Middle Ages. You could sort of pay someone to go, yeah, you make sure I'm okay when I get there, though. That kind of nonsense came along afterwards when the... When it all kind of... Corruption. Yeah. The corruption and the... Yeah. I had heard that it was connected to celibacy.

47:43And that initially there was no celibacy clause. There weren't... No, it was fact came in the Middle Ages. So it was that thing of... They wanted to be more like Christ. So they... Who was celibate. And so they went, well, I'm going to be... You know, one priest said, well, I'm going to be more like him. Live like Christ. I'm going to be celibate, not of a wife. And then that kind of took off as an idea. That's interesting because what I had heard was... Because they did this happen in the England. They were banging all the women. Because the priests were rock stars. I mean, if you have a community where the priest is literally connected to God and he's a biological male and he's horny.

48:18And these women worship them. And it's... It's the original show business. Yeah, yes. I mean, if we were doing... If we were who we are in the 13th century, 100 % priests or church... So I can get up in front of these people and talk to them for an hour or a week. Right. Done. Right. Yes. Put me down for one of those. They'd seek guidance from you, you'd get all these accolades. And apparently they were allowed to have sex with women and they were fucking everybody. Yeah. Just like rock stars. Well, these... They were probably the most popular people in the town. The other thing that time, that's very interesting.

48:49The other thing that ties it to... There's often been, and it's a very unpleasant thing, but there's often been a conflation between homosexuality and pedophilia, which is... So it's just fucking nonsense. Right. It's very... But it keeps on kind of rearing its head in a weird way. But there is something with the Catholic Church where... It's hard to remember how vilified gay guys were a generation ago. Let alone two generations ago. Yeah. Well, very recently. I mean, 90s. It's crazy, but it's true. So there's a weird thing where... Okay, so let's say you're a gay guy in... I don't know. 1890.

49:30You knew you were gay when you were 14 or whatever. Like everyone else is getting married and going off and you go, I'm a gay guy. The priesthood was a smart move. Because you want, well, I don't have to get married. And I know I'm not about that, so I'll join the priesthood. So you join the priesthood. You were a gay guy. There were other gay guys that had the idea. Great. Right. Now, here's the weird thing. Peter Filia was the same level sin in the eyes of the church at that level. So one covered for the other. It was all... You were all damned and going to hell. It was all terrible. Which is obviously some fucking nonsense.

50:06Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's also... There's a different attitude towards same sex. Miners and adults that is with some people in the gay community. In fact, there was a law that they were trying to pass in California where they were saying that the age of consent being 18 was in somehow or another anti -LBGTQ. Because some... Yeah, because some young men sought mentors in older gay men. Some young men who were gay. That sounds like... Wasn't there... Was he... Was he... was he's... Klein? Is that what his name? There's a politician in California that was very controversial because he was promoting that.

50:50Very controversial because he's promoting Peter Filia. And yes, yeah. That's going to be controversial. Well, I think his idea was like 16 and 17 year old boys and that that should be okay. Which is... I think it's very sketchy because... That sounds... Also... It's winding about. Here's something that we could do. Right? Here's something we could start a campaign for. Those laws about, you know, at the age of consent in the UK is 16. Yeah. But those laws should be for 17 and 18 year old boys. Yes. They shouldn't appeal to us. Right. They shouldn't apply to a 55 year old man. So Romeo and Juliet, no, you're not.

51:22I think they have it in New York. They have it in certain states where you go, yeah, that's the age of consent is 16 for her. And that guy who's 17 and it's her boyfriend and they've come up with school together. Yeah. That makes sense. And then 18 maybe... Okay. You're gonna do whatever you're gonna do. I remember when I was 18. I wouldn't make a little sense to me. 18 years old when I turned 18. My girlfriend was a year younger than me and she was 17. And I was terrified that I was going to go to jail. Because I was a legal adult and she was still a child. Right. Even though we started dating when I was 16 or I was...

52:00Yeah. No, I was 17 and she was 16. And then when I turned 18, I was like, oh my God. Can I get in jail for this? I remember thinking that. Like is this illegal? Because it kind of technically is. I think if you're dating a girl like that. I mean this is 1985. So Gavin Newsom signed a law that could give judges a say on whether to list someone's a sex offender for having oral or anal sex with a minor. The bill would expand discretion currently granted judges in statutory rape charges as promoted by bringing fairness under the law to LGBTQ defendants. The current law in place for decades permits judges to decide whether a man should be placed on California's sex offender registry.

52:43If he had voluntary intercourse with someone from 14 to 17 years old and was no more than 10 years older than the person. Right. I don't want to come to your show and be all controversial. But I think brutally speaking, don't be a pedophile. Right. I think that's a good thing to say. But that discretion says only applied to a man who had vaginal intercourse. The new law changes permits change. The new change rather permits judges to use the same discretion when the case involves voluntary oral or anal sex. The measure won't apply when a minor is under 14 when the gap is larger than 10 years. Or when either party says the sex wasn't consensual.

53:23The law does not change the age of consent in California, which is 18. Adults cause caught having sex with minors will still face statutory rape charges. Yeah, Scott Weiner, that's the guy. San Francisco Democrat. Great guy. Great name for him. Yeah. Isn't it funny how those Weiner guys keep getting in trouble? Anthony Weiner, Scott Weiner. No, I'm going to say to to tominism. It's a thing. It's like the simulation theory. It's like the universe is playing little jokes on you. It's like, yeah. But this guy, like, this photos of this guy at gay pride parades. Like we're in a dog collar or like, you know, he's that's I got.

53:58But I got zero problem with that. Yeah, I got a problem with him saying just quote on it. I think the article continued. The law ends discrimination by treating LGBTQ young people the exact same way that straight young people have been treated since 1944. Weiner said in a statement adding today, California took out another step towards equitable society. So what that seems to me is like there was a law already in place giving judges discretion, but it was only for vaginal sex and he thought that it should apply to oral and anal sex. It seemed like the law is the issue, right? Because 10 years old, like if someone's 26 another person's 16 or 15 and 25, that's great.

54:35I mean, there's a reason why it's 18. Like 18 is like reasonable. Yeah. And I think you have to give people agency at some point. Yeah, at some point you have to give people agency and go, look, you're allowed to make your own decisions now. Do you please? Yes. I mean, you are certainly a young person at 18, but if you're a young man at 18 and you decide to have sex with a man who's 30 years old, like that's completely reasonable. I think it's also, you know, try telling an 18 year old, they're not. Right. So we're sure I wonder in the future because the mind, your brain isn't fully developed.

55:04I think it's 25. Well, 25 is the age your frontal cortex is fully formed. I believe as a male. Do you think for females, females like mentally mature earlier than men too? There's what I did is, but they're generally smarter than men when I'm more. I wonder into generations time, well, everyone go, sorry, you were fucking a 21 year old. I wonder will I ever go the other way? That seems silly. That seems, especially men and women. I mean, if it's a 21 year old man, a third year old woman has sex with you, she's going to be brought up on charges. That's insane. Yeah. You had that great bit about that.

55:39Yeah. There's no sexual equality when it comes to child molesting. Yeah. I said because a grown man can molest a 16 year old girl, but a grown woman can't really molest a 16 year old boy. She could only let him fuck her. Like, what's the worst thing that happened? You found out about something awesome early. Like poor Billy got his dick sucked by the hot teacher. Yeah. He's never going to recover. It's a very good. Thank you. We're not denigrating the suffering. No. No, no, no, no. No, no, no. He said to him about some guy that fucked his teacher and Demetri said, yeah, he died. He got high five to death.

56:15I think that was Zach Galvanakis. Was that Zach? I think so. I think as Demetri. You might be right. A couple of that. I mean, those guys are both phenomenal. Both brilliant. I think it might have been Galvanakis, but either way, great joke. But it's, I five to death. But it's a difference. There's a difference and it's also the difference in how we... It's unfortunate, but there's a prejudice about women having sex versus men having sex. A woman is being taken advantage of by the man, like they don't have agency, whereas the man is the pursuer and the predator. There's an aspect of that that goes along with it.

56:58A male, we don't think of a 16 -year -old boy having sex with a hot 30 -year -old woman as that boy being molested. We just don't. Yeah. Well, I suppose, increasingly, we will. I haven't given it a lot of thought, but it does strike me that that thing of agency and being 18 and being a grown -up in society. I suppose the problem is that book, Jonathan Hight, the cobbling of the American mind, that idea of going, if there's no freedom for kids anymore, like you're not allowed to go and play on your own. You're not allowed to leave the house and mess around. The only freedom you have now as a kid is online, so you're not allowed to go and experience that thing of being out in the world.

57:42Endanger. Endanger. And knowing what's safe and what's not safe and having experiences with people that are sketchy. So then if you don't get any of that until you're 18 and then suddenly you get all of that, but you've not been drip -fed it. Right. That thing of like, I know what your childhood was like, we were pretty, you know, grew up in slown, sort of working class, to the west of London. And we were, we were in a nice little bit and we would go out on bikes in the morning and you would come back for your dinner in the evening. You would just be out for the day. I don't think, yeah, my childhood was very successful.

58:15I don't know if that exists. No. That's like the most like child abuse. It's almost like, you know, neglecting your parental duties. Just let your kid just roam out of the house and come back at dinner. 14 -year -olds used to be babysitters. Now 14 -year -olds need babysitters. Yes. And I don't think anything's changed about humanity. So I think the idea that you go, you have agency at 18, but like we, like it goes from 0 to 60 in one day. That's good. And like the drinking age is 21 here, it's 18 at home, but you go, well actually it kind of, everyone assumes in the UK, you can drink a little bit when you're 15 in the park with your friends.

58:51And it's a little bit of that. The different levels of experience of people that are 16 and 17 years old. Like when I was in high school, the first girlfriend that I had, she had a single mom and she was essentially on her own and left to roam around from the time she was very young. And she had been going to concerts when she was 12 and 13 years old. And she'd already had sex before I had, like she was a year younger than me. And when we met, I was a virgin and she wasn't. And so it was, you know, she was more worldly and mature than I was. Like she knew how to go to concerts. She knew how to get back to age and the idea that was sent, you know, an age like 18, every 18 year, oh, that's just a, yeah, solid state.

59:33Everyone's the same. Everyone's different. Very everyone comes to it from a very different perspective or mature at different speeds. It's very, I mean, there's, there'll be young people listening to this as well. It's that thing where it seems like such a race when you're young, yeah, to, to kind of, to get there, to do everything to be grown up. And you feel like you need to make all the decisions. Yeah. When you're 19, okay, what's college degree? What am I going to do? Yeah. What am I going to, it's a panic. Well, that's what's so predatory about America because that's when student loans come in.

1:00:02And you get shackled up with these student loans that you can never get out of debt with. Student loans in America, I don't know how you have it in the UK. We got free health or free education, right? No, we used to have free education. So when I went to college, it was for you. You had to pay for your kind of bed and board and it was free. I went to university. I got a free education. It feels ridiculous that we let that go. And maybe, maybe it's like it. Okay. So it's, it's too, if it's too expensive, then I can see an argument to say, well, on academic merit, we cut the number of places until we can afford for it to be free.

1:00:40But it's free for free for everyone. Well, it certainly benefits the greater goodness of society. Have more people educated and what, what greater thing to spend tax dollars on than to educate the populations? Fanta. There's a, how could you make it an argument against it? And with the predatory loans in America, the way it works is like, say if you start a business and you take out a big loan to start a business and your business fails and you're, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, you can go bankrupt. And then you're absolved of that debt. If you get a student loan, you are never absolved of that debt.

1:01:11You must pay that debt and the interest keeps increasing over time. You know what I'm hearing it. What we need to get into the student debt business. This is like this. It's all about you. You think you're making money in comedy on a podcast place? The real money is in student debt. It's pushed on people because everybody feels like they have to go to college or they're going to be a loser. And there's people right now in America that are getting social security money and their social security money is getting docked because they owe student loans. So you're at the end of your life. Someone made a point recently about a college degree now is a luxury good.

1:01:46It's like a Louvertal handbag. So you get the you get the you get the luxury good. But what can you do with it? What's the benefit? Because it really depends on the degree, right? Yes. Some things like your medical degree. Yeah. You need a degree engineer. Right. Yeah. But if it's just an arts gender studies, then you go, well, what are you going to do with that? Like the map is not the territory. Yeah. Who would you rather employ? You know, someone with an MBA or someone who's got two failed startups failed startups, please. You know, someone that's been in the trenches and tried it and done it.

1:02:19You know, so I think that thing of, I don't know why advice you would give an 18 year old today. But it would really depend upon what they want to do. And what I mean, I'm the the worst person to give that advice because I knew because of my childhood in the way I grew up very unstable, divorced parents, stepdad, moved to a new place all the time. I was terrified of rigidity. I was terrified of a job. I just, I really felt like a loser because I felt like all these people can keep jobs. Why, why do I hate them so much? And because it's, it's interesting. What I see in you, and I don't know you that well, personally, but I see your work.

1:03:03And the thing flowing through it is discipline. Discipline and freedom seem to be the two things. You go, yeah, and obviously those things have been separated in our minds. Yeah, discipline and freedom are the same. They're exactly the same discipline gives you freedom. Yeah, that's Jack or willink. That's what he says. But you get an equals freedom. Exactly right. Yeah, I do have going, well, you, it's martial arts. Yeah. All discipline is stand up, which I know is all discipline. It's all, it's everyone's got ideas. Everyone talks a good game. It's in the execution. Yeah. It's in doing it. So that thing of like going couldn't hold down the job.

1:03:33But I mean, you're pretty good at showing up to stuff. Well, it was, I realized later that it was just I wasn't interested in those things. And what I was terrified of is being forced to do something that I wasn't interested forever. And I saw so many people that they would just wait until they got home every night and just get drunk and then do it all over again in the morning. And then their bodies were deteriorating and they all wound up getting cancer and getting sick and they all died young. And it was just, it was sad and depressing. Well, it's, it's, it's work to live as opposed to live to work.

1:04:04Yes. So your thing is, you know, it's, it's work is the fun stuff. It's all the stuff that you're passionate about. You try and make that your career. That's very good advice for anyone that's young listening to this like, what are you interested in? What do you pay attention to? Do that. Do that. What could, you know, because that 10 ,000 hours thing, it slightly loses the, what could you stand to do for 10 ,000 hours? Right. 10 ,000 hours is the minimum. I don't, there's any mastery in 10 ,000 hours. Right. But I think that's become a professional at 10 ,000 hours. Yeah. Well, with me, I just, I, when I got into martial arts, then I realized like, oh, I'm not lazy.

1:04:44I'm just not interested in those other things. And then when I got into martial arts, I was extremely disciplined. Like, fanatically, like I trained every day. I literally, I lived at the gym, but you taught this is, you preach into the choir. You can't beat your environment. No. And that thing of like finding your tribe, finding your thing. So yeah, a lot of people that are lost just haven't found their tribe, their thing. Well, I, it's hard if you haven't found it yet, because you kind of go, what's easy for you to say, you found it. I was also not around people that were following their passions.

1:05:15Everyone that I was around was working. You know, we lived in a blue collar community, and it was surrounded by a white collar community. And those people that had all worked really hard, got a very good education, and got a respectable job. Either as a doctor or a lawyer, an accountant, or whatever. And they had a wonderful home, and they, they worked well. But I looked at them as like these deteriorating vessels of flesh that were barely getting by in the world. And I didn't want to do what they were doing. And I didn't know until I got into martial arts, that there were people that were doing different things.

1:05:47And that they were surviving and thriving, teaching something that they loved. And so that was my path. My path was competition and teaching. It's interesting that teaching thing, because if I think of your stand -up career, you've done what you've done in stand -up, and now you're building a club, and you know, you've lowered a rope, and you're pulling people up. Well, it's also I learned how to talk in front of people, because I was painfully shy and socially awkward as a kid. Like I would get, I'd have like anxiety going to a bank teller, I thought I was going to have to talk to the bank teller.

1:06:22I remember that. Like, what is wrong with me? I remember being like 16 years old, having the deposited check, and just being so nervous, getting up to the teller. Yeah. And I don't think that's you. I think that's being 16. Yeah, I think being a teenager is about being slightly uncomfortable in your own skin, and deciding who you're going to be. Yeah. I slightly, I worry for the future generations coming up now, because of Facebook, because something like Facebook connects you to your past in a way that we don't have. So I reinvented myself a couple of times. Yes, me too. Like I was 16, and I moved schools.

1:06:56And it seems like a trivial thing to move school from one grammar school to another grammar school, kind of who cares. But it just allowed me to kind of go, oh, I didn't really behave that well at that school. I kind of messed around. Yes. I was a near -do -well, and then I got to the new one and went, I think I might go to Cambridge. I think I might be really academic. Right. Everyone went, okay. Right. Okay, yeah. You know, that's Jimmy's a fucking loser. Yeah. Well, I would go back towards my, when I would go back to my town that I grew up in later in life. If I'd visit, I would get nervous.

1:07:29And when I'd go near my high school, I'd feel terrible. I used to have nightmares that I'd have to go back to school. I didn't really graduate, and I'd go back. Isn't that a lovely feeling in stand -up? Like I was a couple of years in and I realized, I'm never going to need my resume again. It's done. No one's ever going to care about my exam results again. No one will ever. Yeah. It's a very freeing thing to go. That was great, but none of that matters anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I, you know, I wasn't interested in academic things at all. I just, I read a lot, but everything I read was fiction.

1:08:04And I would only read because I was on the train getting to the Taikwondo School. I said, I found, I used to read fiction voraciously. And when I started doing comedy, I stopped. I didn't need the stories. And I'm interested. Now I read nonfiction voraciously, but I don't like nonfiction, but I don't feel like I need the stories, because I'm doing something creative. Yeah. I think it was that part of me that wanted that, is like, I've got an outlet now. I found the outlet. Yeah. Which is, you know, you'd love that for everyone, wouldn't you? I would love that for everyone. I would love it for everyone to be able to do something that excites them.

1:08:36Whether it's making tables or knives or, you know, building houses, like whatever the thing is that really gets you. And it's hard to find that. Yeah. Well, it is hard to find. I mean, it's a very, it's a life journey. There's two great adventures in life. One is, you know, finding what you want to do, and the second is doing it. And tragically, most people don't get to do either. Right. You want that for everyone. Well, especially if you get captured early, and that's what I was talking about with a student loan thing. You get trapped in debt, and then you're on this path through a career. And then if along the way, someone says, Hey, you're thought about doing comedy, and you're like, Oh my God, I'm so tired when I get out of here.

1:09:15I just want to go have a meal and go to sleep. And you're thinking about, you know, like finding a woman, settle down and have kids. Anything when I used to work for a big oil company. Like, oh, really? When I was in my mid -20s, I worked for Shell Oil. I was in marketing for Shell. And I very nearly bought a place. I'm very nearly bought a flat. And that thing of the things you won end up owning you. Oh, yeah. I think I'd still be there. And it would have been a good life. I mean, no, this life, but it would have been good. But that thing of the good is the enemy of the best. I think people now, it's going on 18 to 21, going, you should be taking risks.

1:09:52Big risks, big swings. Because you should also be surrounded by people that are also doing the same so you can learn from each other. If you're a loan person on an island out there taking risks, it's very difficult to assess whether or not you're on the right path or whether or not it's viable. Yeah. One of the beautiful things about stand -up and one of the things that I love about the club is all these young risk takers around people that are the same and that are maybe 10 years ahead of them. And we talk all the time. You know, I ask them, like, you're doing gigs like you're doing the road?

1:10:20Like, what's going on? How are you doing? Like, how many gigs does it always the thing? How often do you write? I always think that thing of going to young comics. How many shows? It's like airline pilots. We're like airline pilots. It's not really about how many years you've been doing comedy. Right. It's about, you know, when you talk to an airline pilot, they tell you how many hours they got in the sky. And I feel like hours on stage. How many shows you've done? Yes. That's the thing. I'm like, 250 on the year. Yeah. And I feel like, okay, I mean, I'm in a groove. Yes. Like, it's that thing of like, you're match fit for this thing.

1:10:52One of the things that we found in LA is that, like, when I was doing the comedy store and the improv and the ice house and going back and forth and doing, you know, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and then I'd go on the road Friday and Saturday. You get this groove where you just kind of know how to make something funny. And so it's easier to create new materials. Well, you get this, you get, you hit this vibration. And then if I had to take time off, it's one of the things that I found that was terrifying during COVID is I took like four months off, you know, because everything was shut down. And then I came to Texas to do shows.

1:11:30I first did the Houston improv. And that was in July. So March, everything was shut down in July. Only Texas and a couple other places were allowing you to do shows. And I came out here to do shows. And I had to listen to recordings and sorry, full months. Yeah. Crime me a river. We did about a year and a half in the U .S. Oh, and the the the United States, they did most places did that. In New York, you had to be vaccinated to go to the clubs. That was like a year later. You know, Los Angeles was a year and a half. You know the gratitude here? The gratitude is it brought you to Austin. Yes. It brought you to this place.

1:12:04You set up your own club. You've got this community around you. People come out with you. It feels like it's a, you know, the silver lining on that terrible time. Well, it wasn't a terrible time. It was a time of change. And it was also a time of realization that, oh my god, the power went out. I guess whatever. I that Jimmy Savo guys got more power than you. Still recording? No. It seems like we're the mics are still on. Yeah. It was a circuit break or something. Everything except for my main audio is still recording. So the video is still recording? Yeah. Why? Interesting. Exciting. Oh, what should we do here?

1:12:37This is fun. Let's do this. Take five. What is this? Huh? Do you think it's a circuit breaker? I think it's the deep step. Oh, back. We're back. Yeah. I think the deep step. I don't know. Talking too much shit. Yeah. I'm like what you said about the Kennedy assassination. Oh, I tell you what. The other thing I was going to say about it. He said it. Okay. Should we pause? Pose? No. I mean, I'm trying. Oh, we're recording or no? I can fix it. We can have a conversation even if I'm not recording it. You know that, right? Well, maybe I'll take a pee. Shall I take a pee? Yeah, yeah. I'll take a pee.

1:13:05I'll take a pee. I'll take a pee. Sounds good. All right. It's fun, right? It's very fun. What do we? What do we chat about? I don't remember before the... I don't know. People following their dreams. How difficult it is. It is hot. Settler, et cetera. Taking risks. Yeah, it is. It's like, it's also... It's so confusing as a young person where the path is not clearly laid out and you don't know what choice to make. Well, it's... What one choice could be disastrous, one choice could be advantageous. Well, I think as well, those things are like... There's certain professions. And I hope comedy in a generation becomes like being a musician.

1:13:41You can see what to do. Mm -hmm. But it's not like being a doctor now. It's a very hard thing to do to be a doctor. Yeah. But you always know what the next step is. Mm -hmm. And with being a professional comedian, it's sometimes very difficult to know how to get first a rung of the ladder. Yes. But taking the risk, taking a shot, it's that thing of like... Making kind of... Taking risks on things that are reversible, as opposed to irreversible. Yes. Having a kid, irreversible decision. If you have a kid, it's a big commitment. That's forever great. There's lots of things people worry about, like giving up their job.

1:14:11And you go, yeah, just give it your job. Yeah, I don't know the job. It's so terrifying that someone else is going to get ahead of them. There's other folks that are in the same position. And you're going to take two years off and come back and they'll be your boss now. Well, that thing... I wish I'd heard it earlier in life. That thing of like, you're only in competition with you last year. That thing of like... I'm trying to work on this thing at the moment, but chatting to my friend Chris Williamson, who does that. Love wisdom. His eyes are amazing. But we're chatting about like, what's the...

1:14:36I think there might be a book idea in this. Like, I'm trying to live for me in 24 hours' time. I'm trying to do things today that I'll be happy I did tomorrow. It's that very simplistic, short time scale, like, living for the future self. Yeah. Like, you can give yourself gifts in the future. So I'm now trying to do a thing like, just super simple, trying to try new jokes at every single show. Doesn't matter where I'm doing a gig, doesn't matter how big the gig, get out a notepad and do jokes again. At the end of 90 minutes, do some new shit and see what works. Because that's the thing that makes you well, have to write some new stuff today.

1:15:09Right. Have to have some stuff to do tonight at the mothership. Have to... Yeah. And it forces you with that thing of like, I'm not going to eat that because I'm going to feel terrible tomorrow. Yes. I think like, the future is, I didn't get that till recently. There's an interesting thing about God is the future. God is an analogy for the future. Work hard now for a better life in the future. So that was, have a good life here, so paradise. But that lesson is the whole of self -help, is the whole of, you know, hard choices now, easy life later. Yeah, but there's also this thought that one day you're going to get somewhere and you'll have air quotes made it.

1:15:48And that's not really there. Well, even though you're successful, you're still just on this path. But getting there isn't half the fun. It's all the fun. Yeah. It's the, that thing of like going, why don't I put together a course on stand -up comedy? Why don't I want to go and play arenas now? Yeah. Isn't it enough? Well, no, because I want to feel outside my comfort zone. I want to feel like I'm beginning again. I want to feel like, I'm on a road going somewhere again, and when I get there, there'll be another place to go. Yes. So that thing of like going, you know, you built this thing, there'll be a next.

1:16:19There'll be a something else you need to do and it's also, I don't know how to pronounce it. I think it's either tealic or tellic. But there's tealic and anti -telic. Tao, I'm saying, I've only ever seen it written down. But that thing of like, tasks without end and tasks with an end. Tasks with an end. Kind of depressing. I mean, they're great. You're in the trenches. You're doing something together. You finish the, yes, it's kind of depressing. Like finishing school is kind of, ah, yeah. But as tasks without end, like being a stand -up comedian, trying to be a better stand -up comedian. So if there's a Mount Rushmore of comedy, we could be two faces on that.

1:16:57We're not. We could be at some stage. Yeah. That, that feels like it's the never -ending task of going, could you be better at this? Yeah. Because there are people doing it better than me. Yeah, and that's one of the beautiful things about people that are doing it better than you. It's so inspirational. And I love it. I mean, that thing of like, you go and see any show. Yeah. If it's terrible, you get something from it. If I go and see a show and it's genuinely, terrible writing. But he sold it. I go, well, that performance. I could learn something. It's often the people you dismiss early on. If someone wants to be a professional comedian and they go, I don't like that comedian.

1:17:32Yeah. I go, are you ready to be a professional? Like, and care what you like. What did you learn? It's, it's, it's, you can you see what they did? Can you see? And it's often the thing that you're bad at is the thing that they do so well. It's like for years, I didn't really get charming. Because I work on charisma. So it's so charming for me is like, I didn't have anything. Right. But then you look at charm. You look at how people, because I think those words are conflated in our worlds, right? Charming charisma. But like, Donald Trump is charismatic. Yes. Obama is charming. Charisma is, you come to me.

1:18:10Charm is, I come to you. Obama's, look at the speech pattern. His head to the side. He's like this super welcoming. We're going to find common ground here. Trump is, you come no matter what you think of them. Politically one is one, one is the other. Angelina Jolie is charismatic. Jennifer Aniston is charming. They both get to fuck Brad Pitt. They both get things. But knowing what you are, strikes me as a very important part of, again, another reason to study startup comedy is like, you find out who you are. I know what your voice is. What kind of, what do you work on? What's your, what's your thing?

1:18:44If I try and be charming, it comes across as smarmy. Because I don't have that gear. Yeah. It's, yeah, interesting. Yeah, it is interesting. And I think there's also, you know, there's a real unfortunate aspect to stand up comedy where people don't like when other people are doing well. There's some people that don't like comics because they don't like other people doing well. It's almost like they wish that they were the only one doing well. There is that strange issue. I mean, stupid. Like there's, there's a little bit of that. Occasionally, but I mean, beyond a certain level, here's, look around.

1:19:23If you're making a living as a stand up comic, congratulations, you made it. If you're not as rich and famous as you think you should be, well, you don't even know what game you're playing. We're all in this. We're all doing the same job. It's all incredible. The idea that we're literally living off our wits. Yes. It's how few of us there are. I mean, there's no one doing this. That's why I think it's like a virgin territory. It's like, imagine if there was like 100 musicians that have released an album. That's how many people with like a special that's gone global. Yeah. Maybe a hundred. Yeah.

1:20:00It might be more. It might be 200 or what, but, but that's not many. Not many. You kind of get to be the first in. This is the ground floor. And that thing of, when you think about humanity, I read this book recently, David Deutsch, the beginning of Infinity, and it's like blew my mind. It was the idea that there's been 100 billion people so far. And there's 9 billion people currently or close to. And there might be trillions in the future. There might be because we found this meme that is the scientific method. And maybe we could go into planetary. And maybe humanity could expand beyond this universe.

1:20:43Maybe we could get somewhere. Maybe physics delivers. And we get to a new place. And it could be generation upon generation upon generation. Well, we're still at the ground level of this thing where people find a voice and find a perspective on things and it's called stand up comedy. It's kind of an American medium. And it's new. This is what it must have felt like in the jazz clubs in the 30s. This is. Yeah. How exciting is this? Life. And you go, and when someone says to me, or without comedian, he's playing a bigger room than me. And he's sold out faster. Yeah. Oh, fuck off. Yeah, fuck off.

1:21:17You can fuck all the way off. You get to do this. Who gets to do this? Yeah, it's a silly. Like, I mean, there's people listening to this podcast with real jobs who are working to live. And God fucking bless them. Yeah. And I hope for them, all of them. And no matter what age they are, that thing of like, they get to do something that fulfills them. Yeah. That makes them truly happy. Yeah. And they get to, it's not even do something to be. It's to be not to do. Yeah. I think you are a stand up comedy. That's your job. That's your role. And you meet all these other incredible people along the road.

1:21:54And they're so different. And that thing that you're doing is a vehicle for developing your human potential. As you get better at that thing and you understand what it takes, you can apply that to all aspects of your life. Yeah. I wrote like a self -help book based on stand up comedy. Really? Yeah. Well, they paid me to write an autobiography in the, in basically in the lockdown in the UK. We had choices. Our managers all called us and they said, look, you can start a podcast or you can write a book. And I took the gentleman's option. I wrote a book. Good luck with this. Let's see if it works out.

1:22:30I wrote a book and I wrote like this before and after I called it. The, uh, and it was like a self -help thing of going, well, what stand -ups taught me? Because it did make me a better person. It's like, yes. The, the, if you think about what, what's the core skill? It's patent recognition. Well, that's strange. I've noticed a patent there. Yeah. Like jokes are very simple. Patents like the rule of three joke is the shortest patent you could get. And it's all patent recognition, noticing difference. And it rewards, what does it reward? Or verbal dexterity? I mean, we both avoided any hard work in our lives through verbal dexterity.

1:23:06Yeah. Fucking terrific. It's amazing. Long may it last. I've never done a day's work. I've done a lot of this work, which make, one of the things that makes me appreciate it. Yeah. It's interesting that thing. I worked till I was maybe 25, advertising and marketing or whatever. And I do still think that's a, it's a very valuable thing. It is because it makes you realize what you don't want to do. Yeah. I did a lot of construction jobs when I was a kid. And that will wake you up to what real hard work is. You know, I spent an entire summer building a ramp, a wheelchair ramp at a night's a Columbus Hall.

1:23:43So the entire summer, I carried cement bags and pressure treated lumber. And it was in the hot sun in the summer. And I would get out of there and I'd go to the gym at night and I was exhausted. I couldn't train. I was so tired. And I just, every day, you'd go to the gym at night off to carrying cement bags. Yeah, I had to. I was competing still. So I was still fighting. And so I was going. That feels like, that feels like a training sequence from Rocky. Is that the moment of the Russian? Well, yeah, he's training in high tech. You've gone back to logs. Yeah, he's cement. It wasn't making me stronger.

1:24:18It was, it was making my resolve to not work stronger. It was making me realize like, there's got to be a better way to make money. I can't do this. Because this was physically exhausting. And boring. It wasn't something I enjoyed doing. It was boring. It sucked. You were in the sun all day. And also, I was not good at recognizing that you had to stay hydrated and take vitamins and take care of your body. I was just like eating subway sandwiches and drinking Coca -Cola. It was, yeah. But that's what your 20s is for. Sure. Yeah. And no one seems to know that early on. No one seems to grasp it. And it doesn't matter how much you tell the young people, like, yeah, I'll be fine.

1:24:52Yeah, you have to learn. But those hard jobs made me realize, like, this could be your life. If you don't take a chance. If you don't really go for it. But it's that thing if you go, someone told me this thing recently about the difference between ambition and entitlement. And it's, okay, so, it's where you are now and where you want to be. And if you want to do something about it, and you're going to do something about it, that's ambition. And if you think someone else should, that's entitlement. And giving people agency. Yeah. High agency people. And giving them like the power to do that is what the whole school system should be set up to do.

1:25:31Yeah, and teaching people that the difference between those things and that you are not doing enough. You may think that you're doing enough and that you should be receiving more, but you get what you deserve for the most part. Well, I mean, that's very cana. It's very biblical. It's very can -enable. The idea of, you know, can sacrifice wasn't enough. And then he's bitter and resentful of that. And that resentment thing is like, there's a great line of resentment. Like if you think, you know, that guy jealous of another comedian doing better, what a crime you're ever. But that thing of resentment is, you think someone else has ruined your life.

1:26:05You're right. Someone has. It's you. Yeah. It's that quote, all criticism is the tragic result of unmet needs. There's a, hang on. Yeah. Give me a second with that. Yeah. It's more complicated than that. The actual quote is longer. Cool. What's it? What? That's fantastic. But it's perfect. That snippet of it is absolutely perfect. Because that's what a lot of, the reason why most people criticize is because they feel like someone has something they don't deserve. And they wish, obviously there's criticism for people that are doing something terrible or doing something badly or just like just ruining something.

1:26:40Well, I had like for sure, but I had this theory about envy and jealousy. And I don't mind which word you use for which. But for me, I would say envy is very good. Jealousy is very bad. So envy tells you what you want. Like what's the most fundamental question in life? It's what do you want? Because other, I mean, no wind is favorable if you don't know what direction you're going in. Yes. So it's envy sometimes. You see someone on stage and you go, I want that. I want to be the Garn stage. Yes. Great. Okay, so now we know we want. We're going to move towards that. And who knows how, but we're going to try.

1:27:14Yes. Okay, jealousy is when you don't want someone else to have what they've got. Mm -hmm. Yeah. Right. That's not anything. That's just what you recognize as bad feeling. And the bad feeling is the jealousy. The bad feeling is you wish you had what that person has. So instead of like looking at the reality of your existence in your life and whether or not you deserve it or whether you put the work in or whether or you've achieved a level of proficiency that would allow you to get that, you just want it and they have it and you're mad at them because they make you feel bad. It's like dumb guys that wind up hating women because they keep getting rejected.

1:27:51So they associate women with negative feelings and bad feelings because these women reject them. So they decide to hate women. Rafa, they're just becoming. Yeah, becoming someone that someone want to be attracted to. Yeah. Yeah, someone was worth being around. Yeah, someone who's someone would want to have a relationship with. Yes, I mean, kind and caring. Yeah, it's a way thing. Women are looking for kind and caring men and men are looking for people with big tits. But that's because all women are kind and caring. Or the vast majority of women are kind and caring. Much more so men. Yeah, so we don't need to have that as our primary.

1:28:24Let's look for that. It's like, you know, people talk about toxic masculinity, but it's an easy fix, isn't it? Yeah, and then there's be a bench, be a gentleman. Yes. Done. You'll do very well. And then there's also this thing where you can kind of bypass that if you're extraordinarily successful. Like if you're a billionaire, you know, people will just seek you out and they'll they'll even accept a certain amount of personality flaws and physical flaws because you just have this extraordinary wealth. You know, so there's people that just go in that direction. They just try to achieve this like undeniable material success.

1:28:59Yeah, I don't know where that get. I mean, a billionaire does seem to be giving away their money. Left and right. The number one reason why we're making a rich is divorce. But, but I mean, that, but I mean, but actively, you know, the outroistic thing of life, they're giving away their money. They're trying to do something here. But the idea they're giving away their money and you go, well, that's interesting. Like what matters? Because money is, it's money is a magic lamp, right? It was the quote, like, but you have to know what to wish for. For me, wishing wells work, but wishing wells work before you think they work.

1:29:37You throw them coin in and you make a wish. And that's where deciding what to wish for is how they work. Knowing what you want in life strikes me. That kind of, that's what we were talking about earlier. That first adventure in life, finding out what you want, who you want to be. Yeah. And you kind of, it's hard. That's like it's the hero's journey for everyone. Yeah, and that's a real tragedy where people don't find the thing. And some people never find a thing. Well, there's other, there's other, I mean, listen, there's, there's different life that you can lead. I mean, for me, I had kids pretty late in life, but I do feel like it makes every other status game look petty.

1:30:18Yes. It's suddenly you go, oh, I thought I had skin in the game. I thought, I'm risking everything, leaving my job to become a stand -up comedian. Right. I never had any skin in the game. It was only me. Right. And now I've got my garlic on my kids. I go, oh, now things could go south. Now I've got stuff that's right. You know, so I thought I had, I thought I'd kind of game the system, but actually I was playing a very low stakes game. And so that thing of going, listen, if you're, if you're working in a job you hate but you're feeding your family, fucking fair play to you. Yes. You're doing great.

1:30:54Yes. You're definitely, you're succeeding. Yeah. But, you know, if you want a dream, if you have a thing that you're striving for, and you don't chase it, that's a terrible way to live your life to wake up one day and realize that you didn't go for it. You didn't take the chances. You didn't follow this thing that has been always in the back of your mind, just talking to you. Yeah. I made like a list years ago of people that made it late in life. Like as a, like Morgan Freeman and Samuel L. Jackson, they didn't have their leading roles till they were in their 40s. But it's a, it's a good list.

1:31:34It's a good list. I put it in the book and it's like, I found it quite like calming for going. It's not a race. Like most comics don't do their best work until they're in the 50s. You know, it's, it's not kind of a young man's game. That's, I find that very comforting. Yes. I think it's like most of my favorite, most of the stuff that I, it's not just stuff you watch, stuff you rewatch. Mm -hmm. God, that's great. That's a great bit. If everything goes well, your perspective will be enhanced with every day you're on this planet. And every life experience that you have and that you learn from and that that will enhance your ability as an artist to express yourself.

1:32:09You'll, you'll know more. You'll understand more. You'll understand yourself more. You understand how other people see you. You'll understand how to get these ideas into people's heads better. It's interesting that thing of like going, another reason to, to teach stand up. The idea of knowing how you're perceived in the world is such an underrated skill. Very. Because knowing how you change the atmosphere when you walk in a room. It's often the way with like, I don't know if you ever noticed this, like very beautiful people, like super symmetrical, beautiful people tend to speak very slowly. Never been interrupted.

1:32:46No one's ever interrupted that what, sorry. You're a what? You're a, you're a, you're a, you know, agent provocateur model. What? Right. So much. Yeah. Hanging on every word. I speak very quickly because this, but you know, you, you've got that thing of like, you don't quite know, I'm sure Marilyn Monroe just thought that's how people, when you walk in a room, everyone turns around and looks. Yeah. That's how rooms work. Isn't that what was the, because she never gets to experience the world through someone else's eyes. Isn't that Socrates quote? Was it Socrates that beauty is a short -lived tyranny?

1:33:24Oh, that's good. Yeah, that's good one. That's good. You dominate with symmetry, you know, and you don't really have to be that interesting if you're gorgeous. And, but listen, people that are gorgeous, and listening lean into it. You might as well use what you've got while you've got it. Oh, yeah. You've got to invest in the other. Well, you want gold and ticket. Yeah. If you're smart, you'd invest in all those things. What is interesting? How we think people that are born beautiful, lucky. She's just lucky. It's easy for her or him. It's easy, because they're born beautiful. We never say that about smart people.

1:33:58We never think that was easy for Joe Rogan. He was born really smart and inquisitive. Yeah. I was easy for him to write comedy, because he's got that, that noggin on him. So it's easy. No one ever thinks that people go, oh, no, he did the work. And that's the great illusion of our culture. There's two great lies. One is talent, and one is hard work. And they're both lies, and we know their lies. I tell you who Michael Jordan is without hard work. Yeah. No one. No one. Yeah. I mean, at all the talent in the world, that physical prowess, and obviously not everyone can do that. So it's a mix of the two.

1:34:34It's always going to be that. I talk about it as edge. What's your edge in life? What could you do better than anything else? You don't have to do it the best in the world. But what's your thing that you bring to the party? What's the thing that you... Here's a great question. What do you find easy that other people find hard? It's interesting you talked about being shy when you were 16. Yeah. And yet you've lent into it to a degree where your whole life is putting people at ease and welcoming them and talking to them. Yeah. And you were never stalking to a bank teller. I was entirely dyslexic as a kid.

1:35:10I couldn't read until I was about sort of 11. And I spend my life now reading AutoCue. I was so terrified of reading out loud. How did you fix dyslexia? How does dyslexia manifest itself? I don't think it's a real thing. Really? Well, because you can't take a blood test for it. So it's just a way of thinking. So what did you see when you said you couldn't read until you were 11? Like what did you see? When I write, so people... I think when you write, when most people write, they sort of just write the word. I need to think of every letter in the word as I write. So as I read, I read individual words.

1:35:44So I'm quite... Like I read... I read pretty slowly even now. Like compared to... I don't know what my reading age is. But it's definitely not commensurate with where I should be. But I managed to kind of game the system. You find your way around it. You sort of feel... No. No, no. I mean, I got into Cambridge. I did very well academically. Right, but how did you overcome? You just basically... I sort of... I figured out early on that patent recognition thing of going, okay, I need to get... A's in my levels like... But whatever you call the end of school. I need to... I need to graduate with a...

1:36:19Whatever. I need to do very well. So I found the brightest guy in the school. And I said, can I read your essays? He said, yeah. I read what he'd done. And I didn't copy the essay, but I copied the structure. And so I kind of learnt to go, okay, well, in academia, what do you need to do to... To kind of game the system. And how can I get round it? And it's just that thing, you go, well, that's... You have to... I think there's a... There's a fair bit of acceptance in it. You have to go, well, my mind works a bit differently to other peoples. You know, I'm not as gifted in that. So it's going to take me longer to read something.

1:36:52What do they say that... What does... When they say, what is dyslexia? Like, technically. Like, when they give you a definition of it. Like, what's the root cause? Like, Google dyslexia. I'm looking all over it's... I would Google it, but I wouldn't be able to spell it. I often get a thing like with spell check. On my computer, it will just go, ah! Right, why are you trying to say that? I don't even know what you're shooting for there. Right. Give me a clue. Put it in a sentence. It's like it's no idea. Think that you do get that little red squiggly line under your words. I mean, oh, thank goodness.

1:37:22I say a wrote a book. I co -wrote a book with... My spell check. Yeah. Without spell check, it's not anything. Hell is this. Yeah, for sure. But it's oftentimes where I just want to type in learning disability. I was in like, special ed until I was, ah, all the way through sort of primary school. It happens because of disruptions and how your brain process is writing, so you can understand it. Most people learn they have dyslexia during childhood, and it's typically a lifelong issue. This form of dyslexia is also known as developmental dyslexia. Dyslexia falls under the umbrella of specific learning disorder.

1:37:56This disorder has three main subtypes. Reading dyslexia, writing, dysgraphia, and math, dyscalculia. Yeah. So, I mean, I think it's one of those things where I don't think that's helpful. For me, I don't think it's helpful to have... I don't think the label ever helped me. I remember getting like, properly diagnosed at university, just so I could get a free laptop. And then we'd give you an extra half an hour in the exam. But like, you know, I'm written word isn't... I'm not great at cursive. So it's interesting. The slow down processing can affect everything that falls. That includes slowed reading because you have trouble processing and understanding words, difficulties with writing and spelling, problems with how you store words, and their meanings in your memory, trouble forming sentences to communicate more complex ideas.

1:38:41Dyslexia is uncommon overall, but widespread enough to be well known. Seven percent of the population worldwide. I'd say that's pretty widespread. Yeah, that's pretty widespread. Yeah. It may affect 20 percent of the people worldwide. Yeah. Wow. What causes it? Okay, what's the symptoms? I mean, what we got? Genetics. I'd say... Highly genetic and run some social genetics. Genetics, isn't it? That's a good point. I wonder what it is about genetics that would cause it. A child with one parent with dyslexia is a 30 to 50 percent chance of inheriting it. Well, it's... I wonder what the... what the advantage was.

1:39:17There's always a downwind of the advantage somewhere. Mm. Well, it says, if you have dyslexia, if you have dyslexia, rather, your neurodivergent, it means your brain formed or works differently than expected, research shows that people with dyslexia have differences in brain structure, function, and chemistry. Huh. So, a bunch of things that can happen, infections, toxic exposures, and other events can disrupt fetal development and increase the odds of later development of dyslexia. Oh, we did find. I... Here's my thing. I don't think it's helpful to have... I mean, I went to, you know, arguably the best university in the UK.

1:39:51I guess Oxford would have issues with that, but I think Cambridge was great. And did very well academically. And it was hard. It was... maybe... it was harder for me to do than it was for my friends that were just naturally gifted academically. Mm -hmm. But I really wanted that thing. And what was the driver... to get that thing? Well, the driver was the humiliation of being in the special age of the mid -class and not being able to read out in class and having... I remember my friend telling me the stories of what was happening in Lord of the Rings, because I couldn't... Buh. I couldn't read it.

1:40:25So I was going, well, it happens. What's... And being really excited by that. So that thing of, like, that poor kid going feeling less than going, well, I need to get this academic achievement to do something. So you were going up to the bank teller, shyly at 16, the gift that shy kid gave you was the drive for this. Mm -hmm. So it's all gratitude. It's all like, well, great. What are you motivated by? Not everyone's motivated towards something. Mm -hmm. Sometimes it's just a way from something. So if you grew up and you didn't have... you weren't wealthy as a kid, I mean, it was great for us because it was pre -internet.

1:41:01So I grew up in Slow, and we didn't, you know, have many foreign holidays. Fine. Didn't matter. My mother was fantastic, and it was a great childhood. And I didn't have to look at everyone else's childhood on my phone. I didn't have to look at why everyone else had. I just knew the people around me, and we were all kind of in the same boat. It's lovely. Mm -hmm. It's... I kind of think that comparison is the thief of joy. Yeah. It's just so true. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah, it really is. And, you know, you can, instead of having that experience, you can compare and be inspired. And that's just a switch that you have to make in your mind.

1:41:40And that's the difference between being jealous and envious, right? But envious, you can use that as fuel. This is disposition is more important than position. If you keep going back to kind of gratitude, like, okay, we're fine. Mm -hmm. It's, you can kind of do anything. Yes. You know, because it's quite empowering as well. That thing of like, it's just a happy mood to be in. Yeah. Yeah, you can choose to interface with life in a more positive way. And, you know, sometimes people need things that happen to them near death experiences, tragedies, psychedelics, something that like snaps you out of this state that you're in, this groove that's been deeply cut into your consciousness in the way you approach life.

1:42:22It needs something different that sort of allows you to see like, okay, I can look at things differently. And that would be a better thing for me. That would help me achieve what I'm trying to achieve in life. And then as you do do that and apply it and you see the results that are positive, then you gain momentum in this very good direction. I mean, for me, I think grief is a huge driver. Mm -hmm. Like that, you know, that great, there's lots of great quotes, it was the same with me. But that thing of, every man has two lives. And he's first, and the second begins when he realizes he only has one.

1:42:58Yes. It's like, you got that for me. I remember hearing that and going, oh yeah. Oh yeah, this is it. There's no rehearsal. So I think that thing of when you're a kid, you're kind of living sort of for someone else. You're sort of trying to impress your parents or someone at school or or there's that kind of weird, mnemetic desire for I want what they've got. You know, they've got those trainers. So I want those training shoes. I, you know, they've got that car. I want that car. You're in competition with the world to kind of keeping up with people. Yeah. And then there's people that tell you the direction you are supposed to go in.

1:43:34And they're angry at you if you don't follow it. If you have like very controlling parents, that can be a real issue. You have to figure out where to snap out of that. You know, um, it's very hard, there wasn't it because, you know, different people like childhoods. There's this is this is a real tough love thing. This isn't popular, but there has to be a statute of limitations on childhood trauma. Because for an 18 year old to tell me, I'm not doing so great because my mom's an arse assist. Right. Yeah. Man, there must have been really tough. If a 40 year old tells me that though, right. Time to get over it.

1:44:11But at what stage do we, is there like, should there be a ceremony at 25 where we go, okay, everyone, that's all, that's all done. It's your responsibility now. Well, that's a good point what you just said, because that's I think one of the things that we're missing that has always existed in cultures is a rights of passage. Some sort of a ceremony that allows you to recognize that you are now held to a higher standard. You are at a new stage of existence. And then this stage requires you to now, you are a man or now you are a woman. And now you have to take agency of your own life. And you have to take responsibility for your decisions.

1:44:47And you have to think of yourself as an adult now. And, um, you know, there's people that are 35 years old, who are still living with their parents and they're still fucking off. They never really matured and became a man. They got stuck in this. And listen, it's all very well for us. You know, the rich comedians. Sure. To say, but it is, it's a tough love thing. If you're listening to this in your mother's basement, it's not from a place of malice that was saying this. It's a place of love going, you know, take responsibility and do something. Because if you're 35 living home or 40 in living home, you've still got 30 great years.

1:45:23Yeah, you can get out there. Get out there. Like, don't, don't, don't. If you're a 40 year old single man, then you're a good guy. There's a woman going, oh, where is he? Yeah, you can still make it. But that's a thing too. Of course you can. I tell them so because you're in that groove. And you're coming from behind. And you might feel like, well, I'm coming from my house. But who cares? It's just hard to, it's hard to internalize that, right? For a lot of people. And then there's books on that, right? There's books that you can learn the way, a better way to think and a better way to approach things.

1:45:56I mean, there's a lot of inspirational books that are nonsense. You know, there's a lot of people that write books about going forward and tracing your dreams. But addressing the root cause of each individual psychological roadblock that you have in your mind. Like, you can learn from those. I found CBT. Very interesting. What is that? Cognitive behavioral therapy. Oh, okay. So they have these kind of list of, we could pull it up just the list of thought patterns. Is brilliant for like, just look at you. You think actually the problems in the world today could be solved with a good session of this.

1:46:31It's like, just like things like magical thinking. Some people just do magical thinking or they, you know, it's kind of, they just put up their own, that well, if I do this, then that. It's kind of weird cycles of thought. And just being aware of it seems to change it. Hmm. Do you got the list of them? This is specifically a seventh point. Yeah, CBT kind of thought patterns. When did you get involved in that? Well, here's a weird thing. I got into kind of, West, I suppose, West Coast kind of, human development, human potential movement, through Shell Oil. So I was working for a big oil company and there was a training budget.

1:47:14Now, I wasn't on the oil rigs. This will shock you, but I was in the office. I know I seem like a real alpha dude, but I was in the office pushing paper, talking about marketing and adverts. And so they had a training budget for everyone. So we used our training budget to go and do like courses. So we did a lot of neuro -linguistic programming. And we did a lot of kind of CBT type stuff. You know, talking to people. And there was all about kind of, you know, trying to, you know, what are you going to do career wise and what's happening within the corporate structure. But for me, it was like, I found it's such a pleasing, I kind of lost my faith in my mid -20s.

1:47:47Oh, well, it kind of maybe very slightly earlier. And then it was like this sort of replaced that in terms of like, it's a way of seeing the world. So the central, I mean, NLP's got it, it's critics, but the idea of going, the map is not the territory. How you see the world isn't how the world is. It's just how you're seeing it. And you could see it differently. You could change the world or you could change your perspective on the world. And it strikes me. One of those is a lot easier. It's not easy, but it's a lot easier than the other one. Yeah, a lot easier. And it was, it was very kind of, it was very free.

1:48:18Okay, well, there's all nothing thinking, catastrophic thinking over generalizing. Yeah, this is, these are all great. Most people go to go to the top of the top. What's the top? Jamie scroll down below. Okay, so all nothing thinking. Thinking in extremes, for example, something is either 100 % good or 100 % bad. Okay, so the boyfriend doesn't call you back. Oh, he hates me. He hates me then. Okay, it's over. Katastica fizing falls that. Katastica fizing possible conclusion. Yeah, so I mean, you know, stand up comics that we know. It's the all or nothing thinking. Yeah, my career is in the toilet.

1:48:52I'm useless when you've had a bad show. Seeing a pattern based on a single event over generalizing, mental filter, only paying attention to certain types of evidence. That doesn't count. Yes. And that in quotes. What's an interesting thing that I've like when you think politically, if you're having a political conversation with anyone, I always like try and ask, what would you need to see to change your mind? And if they don't have an answer, if it's a matter of a principle, means they're not willing to listen to reason. Right, they're ideologically balanced. Yeah, I mean, I must say, the thing about your show, like coming on here, what I've seen your show a lot, and the openness is fantastic.

1:49:31The openness to, okay, to what do you got? Tell me. It's like, it's such an unusual thing, because most of what we have in us is that everything seems very, looking at America as a visitor here, thanks for having me. It feels like there's a cold civil war where people are on this side and this side. And I could ask you your opinion on any one of five issues, and I could tell you what you think about everything else. And that's a bit depressing. I want to be surprised. Like individuals, I want them. It's almost like kind of joining a political party, it strikes me is a little bit ordering from the set menu.

1:50:07The Chinese restaurants. If you've never had Chinese food before, okay, I'm going to, I'll go with that. The set menu, you tell me. Right. But like following a political party, go, what you agree with them about everything. Right. That seems far fetched. I don't agree with anyone about everything. Right. Yeah. It would seem crazy. I've learned how to do that, though. I was most certainly in that camp at one point in my life. And then doing this podcast and having this incredible opportunity to talk to so many different people that are brilliant, and so many different people that have completely different perspectives.

1:50:42And my genuine curiosity as to why they think the way they think, and it's to, and learning how to not judge them, because the way they think is different than mine, than my thoughts, but instead to try to, try to put myself in their mind, and try to see from their perspective. And also give them the most charitable take on them that I can. This is, yeah, it's that. It's the other question. Before you get into any kind of political debate with anyone, first question, do you believe people can change? And if someone goes, no, they are what they are. Why are we even talking? Well, that's, forget that.

1:51:26That's such a silly perspective that so many people share. But it's that thing of like going, if you have the same political views that you hand, when you were 21, when you're now 45, you haven't been thinking much. Right. You've just been rearranging your prejudices. Yeah, and that's not thinking. Five, yeah, you're biased. And like, what was the last thing you changed your mind about? Is such an interesting question. Yeah. What was the last thing, like big thing that you went, I used to think that, and now I think this, and it's, it's a really interesting question. What was yours, people? What was the last thing that you?

1:51:59The medical establishment. I used to think that medicine was there purely to heal people and make people better, and that all the doctors were on board with that. And what do you think? Now I think they're captured by an enormous industry, and that this enormous industry, first of all, it starts with dictating where funds go. So there's one group that decides what studies are going to be run, what tests, what research is going to be funded. And so all of those doctors that receive that funding have to step in line. Then you have the enormous impact that we have in this country, of pharmaceutical drugs are allowed to advertise on television, where one of two countries in the world are on.

1:52:39You and New Zealand, yes, that's it. Why isn't that just, I mean, when New Zealand's far more restrictive than America, America's insane. But I mean, that thing of like, there's a lot of comedy routines have fallen out of that. That's the good that's come of it. Let's be grateful. Yeah, the sound effect sound was, then the thing. Yeah, right. But that idea of like, that's such an easy fix. Yeah, it's not. And it's the internal message. It's about the biggest industry in the world. Yes, it's bigger than anything else. And then there's also like we were talking about this oversimplification. They make a lot of amazing medications that have helped so many people that have prolonged lives, saved lives, helped people.

1:53:15But I invest a lot of my money in a cancer company. It's great because that thing of like going, well, whatever you give to charity in a year, whatever that sum is, and you know, go with God, good luck. But whatever you give to charity won't be as much as you invest. For most people, right? You're incredibly altruistic. Right. So invest in something that's worth something. Yeah. So that idea if you go, well, it's also the medical establishment. There's lots of problems. But when you're sick, yes, who are you going to call? Yeah. Yeah. It's your only option. And it seems to be. Yeah. It's just disturbing to realize that they've been captured.

1:53:52And the media has been captured so hard. And that was a, that was a real revelation that I was very uncomfortable for me to accept. And a lot of the information that I got from that was from doctors, from heterodox doctors, doctors that were, were explained to you with the problems with the system where and how they are discouraged. And doctors that were fortunate enough to go independent. Well, it's the interesting thing about your show is the thing about the overt and window and how much you're willing to push. Because when you said it's a lab leak, you were in trouble. And then 18 months later, everyone goes, yeah, but it probably wasn't lab leak though.

1:54:32Yeah, but I wasn't saying it because I was guessing. I was saying it because brilliant people were willing to stick their neck out who were actual experts in viruses. And they understood, they had studied it and they understood it. But in this forum, yeah, you said it and it moved the conversation forward. Yeah. You saying that moved the overt and window of like, actually, I think it might be okay to say that. I think it might be okay to talk about that. Like, is that thing if you want to know where real power is in any community? Who can't you criticize? Yeah. And that thing of like going, okay, well, that's interesting.

1:55:05Sorry, we're not allowed to discuss this. Right. It's, sorry, this is a, that's a, that's not right. That's right. I want to have a conversation about it. And as I just tell me, Isn't that the one thing that we always were very tune in on? Like, what? To a flame. Exactly. What are you saying? I can't talk about that. Why? Well, what about this? And like, what to the child? You're just a conspiracy theorist. What doesn't, what doesn't comedy live between, I think it kind of operates somewhere between public and private discourse? So you can when you watch the news, no one talks like that. Right.

1:55:40And they don't even think that. Right. And then when a private conversation in a bar in a car in bed talking about stuff, kind of question things. Yeah. And it feels like comedy is in that it's a, it's a public sphere where you can have those conversations. Yes. And you can push things. And it's like, why are people drawn to comedy? Why is there so many comics coming up? Why are people so interested in going out and seeing shows? This is, this is what's going on. I mean, I think that thing of the, I agree with what you're saying about. Okay. So, captured seems like it's very strong language. But you go, and there's so many incredible doctors out there and nurses out there and, and, and, and physios and the medical perfect and, and researchers.

1:56:25There's so much incredible work going on. And I don't know. I mean, if Peter, Adir and David's in clarity, people believe maybe we'll all live to be 120, 130. They're finding these things. You know, the research is metformin and rippermycin and all this kind of incredible stuff. That is exciting. It's great, but also there is, there is a, there's something else going on as well. But I try and see the, I mean, I'm a, I've got a very positive disposition. I try and see the good. I try. Oh, I do too. I, I, I think generally people overall are good. The problem with being captured is when your livelihood depends upon you towing the line and then everyone does it.

1:57:07That gets really scary for the general population that's ignorant to what's really going on. Yeah, especially when it deals with something like them prescribing pharmaceutical drugs. I mean, the opioid crisis in America is like the greatest example that in, you know, that I can't see an argument for, I mean, it's incredible because it didn't happen anywhere else. Right. It's like, it's not like you can go, what? Look at the UK and Germany and France and South America and Australia. Look at all these other places. They all had an opioid crisis. Exactly. No, just, just here, just here. Just here and predicated on, on kind of an assumption that there should be no pain.

1:57:47Yeah. That's what it was, but that's kind of that was the root was no one should be in any discomfort ever. And isn't that kind of the issue with the world? Well, you know, I mean, listen, I don't want to be mean to people, but what a comics good at? Well, I'm very good at being uncomfortable. Yeah. Dying on stage. They call it dying for a reason. It's, it's, it's dying. Bombing. It's called bombing. Because the sound, it's like, after, when you see a movie and they see black hook down and the bomb blast goes off and everyone's ears are blown out. It's just nothing. It's just fucking nothing. Like, but being being uncomfortable is like, what, what, what, what are you unwilling?

1:58:31What discomfort are you unwilling to experience? Yeah. And conversely, the other side of us killing killing. Yeah. Yeah. I got him. Like killed. You get off stage. They're roaring with laughter and the cheer. We got him. Yeah. We killed it. And they, and they experience for the audience. Yeah. Of being in that. And feeling that. It's the greatest experience for me as an audience member. To this day, the thing that I love the most is being in the audience when someone is just fucking, whether it's music or comedy, it's the same thing for me. It's just this beautiful experience of someone just in there.

1:59:06I went to see Post Malone recently in Houston. And it was a fucking incredible show. God damn it was good. It was so good. So much energy. The lights and the sound and his passion for it and the crowd loved him. And I left there. I felt like I was a better person. I left there. I was like, God, I just got elevated. I find it. If you see a great band like, I saw the killers recently. I wanted to see them in Edinburgh. They're here real soon. Oh, yeah. I love those guys. They're running in the best. But that thing of like, you see a great band. It kind of anchors you. It like you feel 17 again. There's something in you that just, this is just, yeah, it's that kind of that spirit of it.

1:59:48Yes. It's, I mean, it's supposed to be a great thing about music. It's nonverbal communication. I mean, it sort of think of it as such. But it just cuts to that thing of, here's an interesting thing, right? So we want old music, new movies. And it's primitive mind, higher mind. So the primitive mind wants to do things again and again, eating, fucking, listen to the same song. You want to do these things again and again and again and again and again. That's a primitive mind. And music taps into that somehow. It's somehow kind of gets into your system. And that thing of like those, like your favorite album, I don't know what your favorite album is, but I know it came out when you were 18.

2:00:29I know at 1718, when you first got a driver license, that first sense of freedom, that album that you had on in the car. For me, it would be the stone roses, the stone roses, whatever it is for you. But it'll be from that age with 95 % of people. And then I mean, I listened to a lot of new music. I'm kind of obsessed by it. But there's something about a familiar tune. And yeah, movies, we want new stories, because it's for the higher mind. It was chatting to my friend, Johnny McDade recently, who's a songwriter. And we're chatting about story songs, because he's got this idea to write songs with stories, to kind of connect, try and connect to the two.

2:01:04Yeah. It's an interesting concept. Well, that is one of the reasons why country music new country music in this country is taking a nifty. Yeah, because it's stories. Yeah. Like, there are almost all the songs are about someone's life, and some story in their life, or some passage in their life, or some moment where everything changed. Yeah, it's interesting. It's like country is, but it's kind of, it's rock and roll without the irony. It's really interesting that it hasn't got back. It's very emotionally raw. Yes. Like, if you've ever been around, I've written a couple of songs with friends, or whatever that thing of like, it's very exposing.

2:01:40Yes. In a way that jokes, you can kind of hide behind a little bit. I'm just messing around here. But the exposing kind of nature of going, no, no, this is heartfelt. This is what I feel. It's beautiful. Yeah. And it's really someone showing their neck. Yeah. It's like, and when you connect to that, when you hear a song and go, well, that's just, that's exactly how I feel. Yeah. It's a weird thing like, there's certain emotions that I can only, like grief, I think is one of them. I often have a thing with songs, like a song will come on the radio, and the grief that comes over you. You remember exactly what you were when you heard that song with the person, and it's like, really?

2:02:23Beautiful music. It's extraordinary, especially, I mean, I can play the guitar a tiny bit, but the idea of like, the mastery that these guys have. Mm -hmm. And there's so much great stuff. There's so much great. It's constantly being created. There's constantly new music that's coming out. I feel a bit like, bad for musicians now, in terms of going, there's a lot of comedians filling arenas, and it's only getting bigger, and theaters, and comedy clubs, and lots of comics. They're very evenly spread. It feels to me. It feels like, music has gone the way of film. It used to be, 100 movies came out every year, 200 movies.

2:03:03And yeah, sure, one did better than the others. There's a big hit, but lots of movies did okay. Now, it feels like less is made, and they just, they all, the top 10, or books, the top 10 books, that we sell as many books now as we sold in the 80s. We sell as many records as we sold in the 80s, but 10 artists sell all of them. It's not a spread. And I think it's because the corporation's got involved. Mm. So think about 70 cinema, and how incredible, I just read the Quentin Tarantino cinema speculation. I'm only watching 70s movies now. It's so impassioned hearing him talk about the movies that he loved.

2:03:43Yeah. It's kind of went through the book, it's infectious. Oh, it's like the passion, the genius, and he was an amazing guy to talk to. That would have meant, I mean, incredible. I mean, his mind is so fascinating, the way he approaches the art form, it's so different than anybody else. And also his films are grandfathered in. Like there's hyperviolence in his films that would be like really criticized today if it was a new film. There's like a male on a female violence. There's like, there's a scene in, I was talking about the scene from Once Upon a Time in Hollywood where Brad Pitt kills one of the Manson girls by smashing her head against a mantelpiece.

2:04:21And it's like, Jesus Christ, it's so wild. Yeah. But, I mean, that movie was incredible. Incredible. All of it's the whole, it doesn't have a bad movie. I don't know if that movie is the same for people that didn't know the story. Because I was so tense watching the movie going, oh, I know what's going to happen. Oh, my God, I can't believe it. And then it doesn't happen. And you go, oh, it's the same trickiest and glorious bastard. Yes. So fantastic. But that point I was making about like, okay, so 70's cinema was like, kind of, yeah, there was a studio system but it was a bit independent. The corporations hadn't got hold of it.

2:04:55And then the 80's, it became packaged and now... The algorithm hadn't been created yet. And now you go formula. Well, there's great cinema being made. There's wonderful movies and filmmakers out there telling proper stories. But a lot of movies now, the big ones, children's movies. Yeah. Anything with a good guy and a bad guy, and no nuance. What's the thought of that? In this country, the biggest movies are superhero films. Which, and they're great. And they're really enjoyable. They're enjoyable. But it's one flip, but it's not one flip of the cook who's next. Right. It's our taxi driver. I didn't realize until Milo's foreman died.

2:05:28I read the obituary of Milo's foreman. And I had to watch one flip of the cook who's next again. I went, oh, it's about capitalism and communism. Brown. I didn't get it. I didn't get it. I felt like such a dummy. I went back and watched it again. And he went, well, he, I think he came from what was Yugoslavia. And he was, obviously, the book existed, Ken Casey. And then when he made the movie, for him, it was about the communist system versus the freedom of, like I watched it as a young man. And I watched it again, maybe three years ago. Oh, my God. That movie is... It's a phenomenal movie. I need to watch it again.

2:06:09I ever watch it in decades. That thing of like, if you keep kind of communism, capitalism kind of in your head of like, what's the subtext of this? It is... It's just... Well, I got some time this weekend. I'll watch it again. Oh, it's... It's really rewarding. There's a few of those films that I really need to go back and watch again. And I said, Taxi Driver, because that's another one that I've been really thinking about watching again. There's a few of those old films, you know? Well, you know this theory on Lindy Books. You've ever had that theory? I know that term, but I forgot what it means.

2:06:37Okay, so it's like, it's the idea like the lifespan of something is the life... So most of what is consumed in our world on phones, most of what people are looking at was produced in the last 24 hours. And we'll be gone in 24 hours. No one ever says this. No one ever goes, you've got to see this TikTok from two years ago. It's my favorite. Never been said. No one's had that conversation. Right. So it's all disposable, disposable, disposable. What stood the test of time? So it's the books is the first thing, right? So you go, well, these books are great books. And they've been around for a hundred years.

2:07:12Or they've been, you know, George Orwell, or Dostoevsky, or those great books. Why have they stood the test of time? You know, something that Margaret outward, whatever it is, whatever it is, whatever the great book that you enjoy. Why is that stood the test of time? That's worth reading. That's worth giving your time to. What's the record that's been around and people still talk about now? What's the thing that you could listen to that you go, oh, this is really gonna... This is really gonna be brilliant. I know this is good. And kind of find that an interesting idea with like cinema. We're also drawn to the new, the new, the new, all the time that we never go back and go, well, what are the grades?

2:07:49Yeah. And especially for, like in our industry and comedy or whatever, we are, and we, you know, shout out to Dick Gregory. But like, going back and watching the people that invented what we do, and like, I find that the frequency has changed in comedy. Like the laughs per minute has just increased. You watch stuff from the 70s and 80s. It's not quite the frequency. And I think it's that thing of the, the comedians were working with an audience that hadn't seen this before. That it's the audience that have come with us. Yeah. Those comics, what I mean, Richard Price is good as anyone working today.

2:08:22But his gags per minute was led by his waiting for the audience to catch up to the ideas. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, yes. Yeah. I think people are very educated about comedy now. One of the beautiful things about this club is that I see that a lot of these people are really hardcore comedy fans. I met guys on the plane out. I met some guys in the airport lounge who were flying out from Newcastle. In the north of England to come to the club tonight. Yeah. And that was there. That was there. Holland. They say, yeah, I'm going to Austin, Texas to go to Joe Rogan's club. Because they asked me what I was doing.

2:08:57I said, I'm going out to do Joe Rogan. And they went, oh, we're going to the club as well. What night are you going? I went, well, I'm doing the podcast. I'm a fucking big deal.

2:09:08Yeah, it's become comedy tourism here. It's really nice. Yeah. It's nice too, because I don't have to travel. I've been able to do a lot of shows and just people come to us. rereading books, watching old movies. I don't think you can see the same movie twice. Right. It's like you can't stand in the same river twice. Different river, different man. Right. People think different river. It's a different man. Yes. Like if you saw one river over the cookers and it's 20 years ago and you rewatch it, you go, oh, this is just phenomenal. And really, what do you remember? You kind of remember maybe one or two kind of snippets of a scene, something visual, but like rereading old books.

2:09:48It's totally, especially with nonfiction, you kind of go, oh, one, I'm getting totally different things from it this time. Yes, because you have a different perspective. Different person, different information that you can, that you have at your disposal. Have you got that imprint app? No, what is that? It's like it does visuals on books. So if you've read a nonfiction book like, and it blacks one, it does, like it's like a, like the, I don't know what you would call it here, like the short version, the York notes. We've called it in the UK. Yeah, Clif notes. Clif notes on the book. Fantastic for things that you've read years ago and you kind of go, oh, yeah, I know I remember that.

2:10:28And it's all the kind of salient points from the book. It's really interesting to kind of relook at stuff. But it's also great for looking at stuff and going, I don't need to read that. You know, some self -help stuff. That's nothing. And then some of them, you kind of look at it and go, oh, I've got to, I think I should read that. That's, it feels like it'd be my thing. It's great, like quick check. Yeah. I love those things. Like Blinkist, I love as well. You know, that kind of just when they do the, okay, this is what the book is. But go and read it if you, you know, at the end, you can click and buy it.

2:10:58What if it's great? And sometimes it's good to read something like that. After you've read it, it's just sort of refresh those ideas in your head. Because it's very, acquiring information is one thing, but retaining information is another. Well, here's what normal talks about. People are obsessed by diet, right? Because everyone wants to get more trim or better shape or fitter or whatever. You think about what you put in your body. And then you say, well, I watched eight hours of love Island and married it first sight. Well, that's, that's McDonald's in Subway. That is, that's not, I mean, great.

2:11:35Some, once in a while. Yeah. Come on. Delicious. Yeah, have a good time. Treat yourselves. Great. Yeah. Once in a while, watch 90 day fiancee. Yes. Once in a while. Yeah. But what's your regular diet? What's the thing you're putting in your body? So this show for a lot of people is, is food. You know, food for thought, literally. And for me as well. But you go, well, that thing about going, well, what else are you, what are you reading? What are you, what are you taking in? Are you just watching the same stuff again? That thing of like listening to new music, I think is like, because it does open up a different pathway.

2:12:08Yes. Yeah, it definitely does. Yeah. And old music sort of refreshes these old pathways. Yeah. I saw the Rolling Stones recently. At the, there's a racetrack out here, circuit of the Americas. They did this outdoor concert, this enormous venue. Right. It was incredible. Security wasn't done by the Hell's Angels against us. No, not this time. Not this time. They've learnt from that mistake. Guys, we're giving you one more try. But if anyone dies, there's going to be trouble. You know, when I started rereading recently, is Hell's Angels, the Hunter S. Thompson book? Always it. Is it? I've never read it.

2:12:42It's incredible. Because that movie comment, the new, the new, I watched the trailer for the new Tom Hardy. Is that, have you seen it? Let's put it up. Is that about the book? No, it's about Hell's Angels. It's, I think it's called, is it called motorbikers or motorbike riders? Bike riders. It looks phenomenal. The movie's incredible or the book rather is incredible. It's, it's, Hunter S. Thompson, the beginning of his career. When he was first experimenting with this Gonzo journalism thing, which is like, he's essentially using fiction and nonfiction together. And he made up a lot of things, apparently.

2:13:20And he pissed a lot of the Hell's Angels off, because a lot of what he did was like, very similar to what he did was with the, what's that motor? What's that motor? The Hell's Angels motor is, two can keep a secret if one is dead. Guys, guys, we're trying to attract new members. Team meeting. Well, he also goes into the roots of what, what, like, how they got established. And it's a lot of people that were disenfranchised from the Vietnam War. Yeah. They were just shell shocked. PTSD and, yeah. It's a, it's a, it's a, they couldn't fit in with society anymore. And then they found this wild group of people that also couldn't fit in with society.

2:13:54And they found a brotherhood, much like the brotherhood that they had the military. I, yeah, I met a guy when I was in, I was doing a gig in I'm just trying to think where it was. It was somewhat, I think Hamilton in New Zealand, where they have kind of a bikeer gangs and they've got some, oh yeah. And I was, you know, they've got big bikeer gangs in New Zealand, yeah. Oh, and, uh, et, have you played New Zealand? No. Oh, my God. You gotta go, I mean, it's phenomenal. Phenomenal place. New Zealand, Australia, I went, like, it was there for three months this year. It's just, it's the best, the best audiences.

2:14:24Wonderful people. Anyway, I'm there. I'm on stage. I'm chatting to a guy in the front row. What do you do? Oh, I mean, I'm in the Hell's Angels. And the guy kind of looked kind of scrawny. I said, what do you do? He said, uh, accounts? Accounts. The accounts guy. Wow. The accounts guy. He's, uh, any told you he's in the Hell's Angels? Yeah, he was, I mean, I think he may have been a fucking idiot. But he was, full disclosure, he may have been a fucking idiot. But he was wearing the biker thing, he had the biker tats. But really scrawny guy. Wow. I just love the idea. Someone joined a bikeer gang and gone, right, what, what am I, what am I doing?

2:14:57Am I in charge of, uh, give you guys need shell accounts? Am I, am I getting the crystal meth? Am I running the hookers? Am I, am I, am I, transpar, am I protection? Right. No, we need someone to do double entry bookkeeping because this is getting our hand. Someone's going to, someone's got it. There's no toilet paper. Someone's who's, someone's doing the admin for like, that's the weird thing. I've got someone's doing that for the Hell's Angels. I guess. You have to. Those little fall apart. Office admin. Yeah. Wild. Yeah. Yeah. There's those, those sort of groups of people that are outcast of society have always been attracted to people.

2:15:33Well, I mean, what are you talking about? Yeah. Outcast in society that all come together and find a brotherhood. Did you just open a comedy club? Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's the same thing of like that. It's back to the Alan Haven. It's well for ourselves, but in it together, it's, uh, who said it to me? Mike Wilmer in a room of 3 ,000 people with a one person facing the wrong way. Right. That's a lovely, that's all great way to put it. I think, I think comics are people that could fit in, but chose not to. Most, most comedians I know, you go, well, high school, I was in like four different groups or university at four different group, friendship groups and kind of kept them kind of separate from each other.

2:16:13Mm -hmm. I don't know why, but I was kind of attracted to that kind of having my own stuff. I was in like the question for comedians. If I meet a comic, I don't know. You want to get to know them. I always go. Which one of your parents was sick? Interesting. I think, I mean, I hit the bulls eye 90 % at the time, because for most comics, someone was sick physically or mentally sick, and you had to make it okay. You had to have the ability to change the mood in the household. Yeah. To make things okay. To be funny. To be just that thing of like, what's your attention? What's being funny? What, what are we doing?

2:16:50It's, it's, funniness has a root in our evolution that people don't. Laughter is a million years older than language. It's a different part of the throat that you laugh with. I mean, my weird, I've got a weird laugh. I laugh on an in or an out, but even regular laughs. It's a million years older than language. And really, if you talked to Robin Dunbar, I did a documentary with him, who's the guy that came up with a Dunbar number. Of like, how many friends can you have? Because he talked about a lot on social media. So, silverback gorillas can have about 60 in a, I think it's called a pot of gorillas.

2:17:24So, silverback gorillas can have about 60 in the group. And they, they groom each other. And then it gets to 65. And there's five guys going, and even fucking know that guy. Start our own pot. And they start their own pot. Now, that doesn't sound very interesting. But human beings, because we had laughter, it was remote grooming. So, we could have bigger pots. We could have 150 people in our little groups. And 150 people allow specialization. And specialization allows civilization. So, it's an incredibly important thing. And really, when you think about what most laughter is, it's this thing where you go, I'm not a threat.

2:18:12Everything's all right. We're all fine here. We're all good. We all get it. Like, other animals will be show our teeth. It's, it's trouble. And we do it to show it. It's okay. Right. It's in the spirit of play. That is fascinating to teeth thing, right? Yeah. How wild is that? That we are so far removed from using our teeth as weapons. That when we show our teeth, it's like, it's fun. But it's also, it's in the spirit of play. Yes. Because it's the same as like, what, what, what, tickling, is if you, if you tickle someone in the street, try it. They're not going to laugh. We're random, stranger in the street, try and tickle them.

2:18:47It has to be playful. Both people have to be involved. Yeah. Like a little play fight. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's, um, it's testing the boundaries of what's okay. Yeah. And laughter does the same thing. Laughter is like, I think that thing about the, what it does, it like rewards pattern recognition, verbal dexterity, and it allows us to get on in bigger groups. Mm. The importance can't be overstated. And you unite people in some strange way. People with completely different opinions about things so one of the things that I've said that's amazing about comedy as well is that you can go on stage and have an opinion and I can be in the audience and I have a completely different opinion.

2:19:29I don't agree with you at all. I'm like, I don't agree with this guy. But if you go on stage with an opinion and you make me laugh, you have somehow or another, you've injected that idea into my mind and now I have to consider how the, the irony and how the comedic value of you're expressing that opinion. Unfortunately. Unfortunately. You're not the first guy to notice this. Yeah. So I mean, Hitler knew it and that's why, that's why Cabaret is such a great piece because those clubs, those Cabaret clubs in Germany and if you laugh with someone, it's like like, and how did Hitler use that? He shut down the clubs.

2:20:11He shut down all that. Have you never seen Cabaret? No. Oh, you've got to see Cabaret. So these incredible German clubs. Well, Cabaret, like the movies, Liza Manally, 72 maybe. And that's when it's about? The musical run. Yeah. So these clubs, they're like the end of it is like the heartbreaker. I'm kind of ruining the ending. But it's these clubs in Germany in the 30s of like these incredible full of life, magical people and you know, lots of Jewish people in those Cabaret clubs. Telling jokes and being funny and whatever. And the Nazis realized, well, if you laugh with those people, you can't hate those people.

2:20:47Oh, if you laugh with someone like, what's that great phrase? Like anti -Semitism cannot survive a Shabbat dinner. Ha! It can't. Like if you've got Jewish friends and you laugh with them, what are you talking about anti -Semitism? But if you can make them seem like other, then it's very dangerous. So that thing of going, nailing the landing of Cabaret, I remember seeing one Alan Cummings doing Cabaret in London. And these people that you've seen singing and dancing and living their lives. And then at the end of the show, they're in pajamas in the snowfalls. And you realize they all got wiped out.

2:21:25It's like, Oh, wow. What's really horrific about human beings is how reason that was. And how we have sort of dismissed that as an artifact of time. And that it's not possible today. But it's very scary. I think there's people give themselves not everyone, but people sort of think, well, if slavery was going on today, I'd fight it. And if Hitler was around today, I'd fight it. And you go, but he is. And there is. There's 40 million slaves currently in the world. Yeah. More slaves during the world, in the world right now than during 1865 when they abolished slavery in America. Terrific. And you look at North Korea.

2:22:11If you want to see a state where, I mean, we have very little news from there, very few people get out, but the ones that do it's horrific. In George Orwell's 1984, it's happening right now somewhere. And we're not. Yeah. I mean, I kind of thought that was like an interesting idea on America's original sin is slavery. And there's no way to change the past. But one thing you could do, if you can't work out reparations, and people don't seem to be able to work out what to do with that. But one thing you could do is make America's foreign policy. Why don't we just stop slavery? Who couldn't get behind that?

2:22:51Right. Globally, to say, well, just, you've got an incredible military. There's injustice going on in the world. That idea of being the world's policeman. I don't know. I mean, freeing slaves? Who could disagree with that? Well, who's putting up a case against it? The problem is that you're addressing the way the United States interfaces with the world is if we're just trying to do overall good. That's not really what happens with this whole empire building thing. It's what's really going on is controlling resources and coming up with some reason that you have to intervene in order to acquire these resources or control these resources or protect your resources.

2:23:30I think it's, you know what I think that is? Short money. Short money. Because what's a resource? There's things that are resources now that won't be in 20 years. You know the biggest industry in the world was in 1903? Beavers. Very close. I'll pass you. I'll give you a C. Wailing was the biggest industry in the world in 1903 and Wailing disappeared overnight. Like in a year and a half it was gone. Those towns were just emptied because the whale oil wasn't required anymore. Because suddenly we discovered petrochemicals. Petrochemicals was really the thing. Yeah, the whale oil, electricity, Edison, all of that stuff for Tesla.

2:24:12It's really interesting how that industry just fell away. It's like the story of Horsemen New York in New York City. You know this? No. So Horsemen New York, you know why the brownstones have got steps up to the front door? You ever wondered about that? Why is the ground floor not on the ground floor? Why is it up steps? Why? Horse shit. Really? There was horse shit everywhere. They've always got those metal scrapers by the side at the end. Yeah, to get the horse shit off. You know that all movies that it was took about smelling salts. There's a lot of references to smelling salts. Yeah, the smell was horrific.

2:24:43If a horse died in the street, you had to wait for it to atrophy to cut it up and take it away. New York was the sound. Cobbled streets, metal wheels on the carts. Horses everywhere. So they made a law to say, right, horses were going to put tax on them. Didn't change anything. Made another law the next year. We're doubling the taxes. Right, we're going to do a thing with, we're going to say, if you have a horse, then you have to do this, you have to do it. Now whatever it was, kept on kept on kept on. And what stopped it? Henry Ford. Cars came along. All gone. Oh, there's five of them left in Central Park.

2:25:18Right. All gone in no time. Wailing disappeared over the night. That thing of like, what's a resource now? America trying to get resources overseas. I mean, I don't want to sound like a boy scout. I think freeing slaves would be a much better thing to do than trying to get control of an oilfield somewhere where you go. That's not going to be a resource in 10 years time. Yeah, the problem is it's a resource now. And it's a phenomenal one in terms of the amount of money that you could require. But I mean, cobalt wasn't a resource. Right. 20 years ago. Right. Now we really need cobalt. And suddenly, I mean, the things that are happening to get it are just horrific.

2:25:55Yeah. I had said, Darth Cara on the podcast. He's a journalist that went to the Congo to document this and brought back video footage. The Democratic Republic of Congo. Any country with Democratic in the name? That's a fucking red flag, isn't it? That's a red flag. If they go, hey, with Democratic, are you though? Are you? Yeah. It's, I mean, it's, it's hell on earth out there. And it's happening right now. I think that thing of like people saying, well, I would, I would go and make a difference. Well, the stuff going on now, if you want to get involved. Well, what's so ironic is that it's one of the most horrific conditions that human beings are imposed, that's imposed upon human beings.

2:26:30But yet, it is required in order for you to have a cell phone and complain about the injustices of the world. Every single person that has one of these things, you have in it minerals that were carved out of the ground by people living in the most these. Child -library conditions. Child -library, slavery. I mean, slavery and not just that, like people with babies on their back that are breathing in this cobalt dust, horrific health consequences, everything, all the above. The abject poverty, no electricity. I mean, here's like the big thing in the way, I mean, again, gratitude. Go back to gratitude.

2:27:06We don't live there. Anyone listening to a podcast, you know, we're doing great. What can we do about it? I don't know. I mean, this is part of the anxiety of the modern world, because we're surrounded by problems, told about problems that we have no agency there. Yeah. We can't sort of do anything. But it's, I don't know. I mean, it's what's going to be the next resource, because environmentalism is clearly their right. Yeah. This fossil fuels, it needs to stop. But we've already got the downside volatility from splitting the atom. We've already got all the weapons. We could already destroy the world.

2:27:42We've got all of that. Why are we not building, and the tests have been done, right? There's nuclear submarines. You know what, the range is on a nuclear submarine? That's insane. It's unlimited. It's unlimited. They can go forever. I mean, it's, it's crazy. Why isn't every town powered by one of those? Yes. Well, people have this bad taste in their mouth because of the few disasters that have existed when nuclear power was not, Fukushima, right? Yeah. What's the death toll on Fukushima? It's very low, but the toxic pollution might be nothing. I think it's one person. But the toxic environmental effect of them, not being able to shut down that reactor, it's pretty devastating.

2:28:27Yeah, I tell you what, it's not as devastating as. Fossil fuels. So it's, it's as opposed to what is always the worst. Right, burning coal. Right. So burning coal endlessly burning coal. And anyone that says the environmental problem can be fixed by us cutting back is living in a dream world. Right. Because you go, well, you can't deny, like, that we owe a debt to future generations, and we owe a debt to people that are in different geographies to us. Like, there's no way you can say with good conscience, while you need to cut back China and India. Most people in the world, a third of the world don't have flushing toilets.

2:29:06Like, they're living in poverty. So the idea that they won't need energy is insane. Insane. And we've nailed the technology. And we just never, we got, we got nervous. But there's worse than that, Germany shut down their nuclear power plants. I mean, people have shut them down. Because there's this, there's this negative connotation. There's this negative association that people have with nuclear. Well, I mean, I don't know about, I'm not an expert, but Fukushima, I think, was a 40 -year -old technology. Yes. There is new tech in that. Yes. Oh, yeah. I mean, I can't understand why, like, the big oil companies, why isn't something like, instead of just going, you've got to, every time there's an oil spill, you've got to clean up the sea birds better, or, you know, the Gulf of Mexico disaster was horrific.

2:29:57What happened? You go, why don't you just say you've got to invest half of your profits in nuclear? Take it private. Private seems to get things done quicker than governments. Yeah. The real problem is there's still an insane amount of money to be made from fossil fuels. You know, there's a desire for it and there's a market for it. And people are already making money doing it. I don't know though, but okay. So if you want ants put down sugar. The incentives need to be there. So, yeah. So let's put down some. BP could be the next traditional oil major to invest in the quickly evolving nuclear fusion sector.

2:30:34I mean, join a list of companies including Chevron, E and I, and but that happened after I said it, right? Yeah, well, I said, what? Two or three months ago. Ah, change the date, Jesus. That would, I think that's kind of the, because those guys you go, would you buy stock in shell oil today? I wouldn't. Because if you, like, if you're buying stocks and you said, like, I'm going to leave my kids a bunch of stocks and shares, what do I think's going to be there in 30 years time? Yeah. I'm sure. And I don't know whether it'll be like someone gluing themselves to a jumbo jet. I think it's going to be, it's going to be someone goes, there's more money to be made.

2:31:14Like in New York with Henry Ford and like the wailing industry, though, you know, if those guys want to make money, they went and they worked for Rockefeller. Well, obviously they realized that as well, which is why they're investing so much. But I love the idea of that. I've got what we could be a generation that goes, look, do you see Oppenheimer? Do you see the evidence in it yet? No, my God. It hurts amazing. It's, is it out on iTunes yet? Can you get in? That's the problem. You got to go to a movie theater. But it's worth going to a movie theater. No, I'm sure it is. I think that thing with Christopher Nolan movies is what?

2:31:44You kind of go, it's a bit like, I don't know, Tarantino or Kubrick, like that thing of like, you know, when movies you go, I wish I'd been there to see Kubrick movies on the big screen. Back in the day. I remember seeing the last Tarantino. I remember going really clearly to one spoiler time in America and going, well, how many movies does this guy got left? Maybe three or four? Right. Because they take a long time to make money. He got one. I think we said one, but please. Make more. But you, but sitting in the movie theater, I haven't seen this movie. It's my first time seeing it. I know I'm going to see it four or five times.

2:32:19And it's such a... Yeah, it's with the way it's meant to be seen. It's so special with the sound and the immense screen. Yeah. It's the way it's meant to be seen. It's incredible. I think the Nolan things as well for me. I mean, you know, whether you've got favorites or not, but visually, just it's stunning. Mm -hmm. Yeah, absolutely. No, I'm definitely going to see it. I just go into the movie theater to me. Last time I went to see a movie, I brought my kids to see Barbie. And there was a group of people just talking, just talking out loud. Right. And someone had to shut them up and just a lot of people were frustrated before they shut them up.

2:32:55And you know, it's like that thing. Rude people. It is... It's tricky that like, do you intervene or not? Right. And you can see how... You can see how... Yeah, people get in fights and it's like, and it's not worth getting in a fight over, but you go, especially with you, sort of telling someone off and going, Oh, God, I'm so surprised. This is... Like, sometimes you get it in comedy shows where you go... A lot of I've done it before, where we went to see a show in the West Dunder London. And a lot of people at the show had never been out to the theater before, because it attracted a broader audience.

2:33:28And like, so people on their phones and people kind of chatting a little bit, but you kind of went, okay, but they're learning this thing. Like, no one's expected to get it the first time. Right. But you go, there's a certain etiquette to this. It's like, you go to a comedy club the first time you're there, you might think, yeah, I could just... Because you're used to watching it on Netflix. So you can't get chatting, be on your phone, and then you're told, and second time, you know what's going on. Mm -hmm. Like, it feels like something, but would you tell like, I mean, in an American theater, I wouldn't...

2:33:55You've got open -carry here. I wouldn't take the risk. Yeah, but it does happen. People definitely get in fights and movie theaters. And that's why some people are just very rude, and they don't give a fuck about other people's experiences. You know, and that's this sort of agreement that you make when you go to a movie theater. Is that you're going to be polite, and you're going to sit there and enjoy the film, and you're not going to disrupt it for other people. Some people don't take it. I think it's... I think people are fundamentally good. Yes. And I think that thing of... They've not realized that, and they're embarrassed, because they got caught out.

2:34:30Like, if it... I mean, sometimes like, you know, 14, 15 -year -old kids might just be... They didn't give a fuck, whatever they're in there, they're in their thing, and they're fronting. Great. But I think most people, most grown people go, Oh, they're shit, sorry. Yeah. But you can't say that, because it's the... It's that weird status game you get into. That kind of... Did you read that Will's store book, the status game? No. Really good. Like, really interesting about like, there's kind of a weird status game going on in every interaction in life. It's his premise. Yeah, there is. There's that weird thing when you...

2:35:02When you go into a coffee shop, you order a coffee, and someone comes in after you, and they get served their coffee before you get yours. No. No, what the fuck is going on here? Right. That weird reaction of going, you're never going to see them again. You don't know who this is, and somehow yet, you're annoyed and perturbed by that, because our ego's a quite fragile. But realizing we're in those status games all the time, so that thing of like, why fights in cinemas? Because there's a weird status game going on with the perfect stranger you're never going to see again. Just silencing you. But that thing about you...

2:35:35Chaps on you. Marshall Arts, whatever. And I think that that thing that that teaches kids should really be, again, we should teach comedy in schools. I think Marshall Arts would be a great shout, because the guys I know that have done that, very rarely get into fights. Yeah. It's very rare. It would stop bullying, believe it or not. Sounds counterintuitive, but most bullies bully because they're insecure, and they want other people to feel bad so that they feel powerful, because they don't feel powerful. And if you could just teach them martial arts, they wouldn't do that. Most of them, there are a few that would.

2:36:09Yeah, but that's always just going to have... There's just such a spectrum of psychological issues that some people have. Yeah. But most people, if you taught the Marshall Arts, the difficulty of doing it, first of all, it drains all of the anxiety and stress out of your body, because it's so physically demanding. So you're more common piece for because of that. You need to think about what... I suffer a little bit with anxiety, not so much the last while, but I have done historically. And it's that anxiety, what is it? Yeah. Well, you're trying to solve a future problem now. Something that hasn't happened, it's like a counterfactual in your head.

2:36:42Yeah. Something that an imagined problem, and you're trying to solve that, and your mind, if you have a creative mind, is worrying away, trying to do that, and you're... Trying to... Right. And you're obsessing on... You're obsessing about this thing. And so giving yourself something to do in the moment, if you have to bench press something, I'm afraid it's very difficult to worry about the imagined future problem. Right. Right, you're in the moment. Yeah. And I presume even more so, I've never done martial arts, but even more so, if someone has got you in a headlock, you're having to tap out.

2:37:14Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And it teaches you discipline, and there's a lot of things that, you know, bullies need, and people that are insecure in need. One of the more fascinating... It's a very interesting perspective there, to go... Because our thing is, on dealing with bullying. It's the people that are bullied, come forward and tell someone. But actually, that's a very interesting point, because upstream of that, is the bully. And what the fuck is going on there? Like... Most of them are abused. You'd be much more upset to hear that your kid is a bully. Yes. Than he's being bullied. I mean, they're both bad.

2:37:52Yeah, they're both bad. They're both bad, but if your kid... If your kid's a bully, it's like, ah, fuck. Yeah. He's a dick. Where you've raised someone who's victimizing others. Something bad happened to your kid is bad. Yes. Your kid doing something bad is worse. I would argue. So that thing of going, how do we do something for them? Right. So if you... Listen, there'll be young people listening. If you have that in you, go to that. Yes. Go to discipline. Yes. Yeah. And learn how to conquer those demons. And most bullies have been abused. The vast majority have been physically abused. Something happened to them, they want to impose it on other people.

2:38:33It's very sad. It's very sad. And it causes so many suicides. So many people's wrecked lives. I met people that have never gotten over experiences that they had in grade school. Yeah. Yeah. It's an epidemic. I mean, the suicide epidemic is so bad. And it's the... That line, it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem. It's just a lack of perspective. It's a lack of being able to see... Yes. You want this feeling to end. Not life. Right. This feeling. And this too shall pass. You'll get through it. There's another side to this. Your perspective is just... But in that moment, it's so... Locked in.

2:39:18It's just... It's a horrible place to find yourself in. It is. And it's so difficult to understand someone else's perspective too. Because we all have a certain amount of discomfort in our life, a certain amount of anxiety, a certain amount of depression. And with some people, it's just insurmountable. Yeah. I think it's... Yeah. That thing of like, how difficult is it for them? And you kind of can't understand. I mean, we've had quite a lot of friends, I mean, in the comedy world. Yes. That have taken their own lives. And I always think the surprising thing is how few people in comedy haven't.

2:39:50It's like, we should see what comedy does for people. Because a lot of people are drawn to it. They're drawn to that light because of the darkness. And it's amazing actually what it... The cathartic nature of what we do. And obviously, you know, sadly, some people still do. Yeah, it's so devastating when someone who's loved like a Robin Williams type person does it. I don't think as well. I don't think you can make the pain go away if you commit suicide. All you can do is dissipate that pain. Well, you... And the people that you love... They will experience that pain. They get... It's like it's an energy force that goes, okay, it's got to be felt by someone.

2:40:30It's just it's so... Yeah, I first experienced suicide when I was on news radio. When I was a sitcom, one of the writers who's a good friend of mine, killed himself. He's going through some marital thing and called his wife on the phone and shot himself in the head while he was on the phone with his wife. And knowing that was just so devastating. It was just so horrible because he was such a great guy. What was he called? What was his name? Yeah. Drew. Yeah, I don't want to put his last name out there. It's... I always think it's nice to... You know, that old thing of like you die twice. You die when you die and you die the last time someone says your name.

2:41:11Yeah. It's nice to remember people, you know, Drew, jobs up. I wish he hadn't. Yeah. But it's that thing. It's nice to remember people. I think one, you know, it's horrible pain to go through. It's so confusing though. When you love a guy and you think he's a great person and you really love being around, you're happy when you see him. And then either whatever the hell they're going through is just in their mind. It's... But that, like the most important relationship you're going to have in your life is the relationship you have with yourself. And the way some people treat themselves and their internal dialogue and how they speak to themselves, they would never treat another person like that.

2:41:50Right. It's... awful. And like that circle of compassion that they had, you know, they're good to everyone else in their life. And yet they can't be good to themselves. They can't include themselves in that group. Yeah. They're somehow just a voice. Yeah. And it's... You know, there's a lot of factors too and how they grew up and... Well, I mean, I don't know. Yeah, there's environmental, but also there's genetic things. I mean, some people are... Yeah. ...have a predisposition towards... Yeah. ...depression. I mean, I also think there's that thing of like... there's things that get conflated, like depression and sadness.

2:42:25Like in my mid -20s, I thought at the time I was depressed. When I was working for a big company, I hadn't started doing comedy yet, hadn't found what I wanted to do in my life. And I thought I was depressed and I wasn't. I was sad. And being sad is somehow less socially acceptable than being depressed. But being sad is great because when you're sad, it's like circumstantial. I don't like the circumstance that I find myself in. Yes. But you can do something about that. Yeah. If you have a depression, a serotonin imbalance in your head, that's a hard fucking road. It's a hard fucking road. It really is.

2:42:58Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I do hear great things about... I mean, I've got a friend... I'm a mutual friend of ours that was... ...clinately depressed for 25 years. And... ...is better because he did some ayahuasca. Yeah. It's extraordinary. I think that's the other thing maybe we'll see in the next 10 years. The medical establishment. Someone's... Someone up high in Pfizer is going, do you know what? I think we could cure this. You know, that thing or whatever's in ayahuasca, I don't know what it's made for. But someone's going to be going, okay, that experience that people are having. The microdosing mushrooms that they're giving to veterans and they're thinking incredible results with PTSD and reintegrating those guys.

2:43:45Phenomenal. I mean, it's amazing. It feels like that will be... We talked about the Overton Window a bunch of times today, but that thing of pushing... this conversation, pushing... what is acceptable to talk about? What people can do? Yes. And that is... We're not a great example of that Overton Window because that was not acceptable to talk about just a few decades ago. Not just a few years ago. Yeah. I mean, really, after Timothy Liri, it all got shut down and kind of... Okay, the classification for drugs went crazy. It strikes me that the... You know that... William Gibson, the sci -fi writer.

2:44:22I've heard of him. He said this brilliant thing. He said the future is here, but it's not evenly distributed. I've heard that about the apocalypse. But the idea that you go, okay, well, the apocalypse comes to us all. Yeah, well, the apocalypse is here is just not here. No, okay. Well, I mean... It's in the Congo. Yeah. But... Yeah. Yeah. But that idea of going... We kind of have best practice in everything you care about somewhere in the world. Yeah. So, like, Portugal is my favorite example of this. So, Portugal, Lisbon, the drug laws. Lisbon used to be the roughest... I mean, one of the roughest towns in Europe, it was like...

2:44:56It's a port city. It was a big heroin town. It was rough. And I think 15 years ago now, they legalized all drugs. Yes. And here's the thing. That's where the story ends for a lot of people. But that's not what happened. What they did was they legalized all drugs. They figured out how much money they were spending on the war on drugs. And they spent it all on rehabs and education and... I've brought up that argument about America. I mean, that's the cure to the fentanyl crisis. Is if they legalized drugs in America and put all the money that they're... People don't want to be on it. They want to be in rehab.

2:45:33So, you go... Yeah. All of the DA law enforcement stuff goes into therapeutic things. No one seems to get addicted to mushrooms and ayahuasca. Once you get the message, you hang up the phone. Right. So, that thing of like, whatever the method is that works for you, might be 12 -step. Could be some psychotropic. Whatever it is, whatever works for you. But imagine the research that could go into that with that budget. And you go, you're not going to win the war on drugs. You don't even... Like, there's prisons. High security. Category A prisons. And they've got drugs in them. You can't even keep the drugs out of there.

2:46:09Good luck with the borders. Yeah. It strikes me as like, you go, just admit you're not going to win that fight. Right. And what are we going to do? And that best practice of going, well, that's going on in Portugal now. They've done a 15 -year test case. We know it works. I mean, Lisbon now. Have you been to Lisbon? No. You've got Lisbon. Yeah. Food is, I mean. I mean, the Portuguese. It's fabulous. Such a great city. Such a great city. Lisbon and Porto. I mean, I don't really know the rest of Portugal that well, but it's, they're both phenomenal places to play gigs and they love stand -up comedy.

2:46:46It's just the one place. The crazy that that little country was like conquering the world at one point in time. Sorry. I'm from Great Britain. Hi. Hi. Yeah, you get to do it. We had a great run. It wasn't bad. I tell you what, we used to own. This. Sort of. Crazy. Yeah. Crazy, right? It is crazy. It's crazy how empires rise and fall. And that's one of the things that people are wondering currently about America. If we're in the last throes of a dying empire. Well, here's my, I got a hot take on this. Please. I don't think they do. So I don't think the Roman Empire fell. I think it became a church.

2:47:21I think the, so the Rome fell, but the Roman Empire became the church. Where's all the money from the Roman Empire? The Vatican. In the basement of the Vatican. It's where it is. Yeah. That's that's I don't think the British. The Vatican. Yeah. proof. It's incredible. Bizarre. It's incredible. The city within the city. The wealth. The, the sheer wealth in art is overwhelming. Yeah. St. Peter's Basilica. When I walked in there, I. My mouth was open the entire time I was there. You just can't believe the amount of craftsmanship, the architecture, the art, the painting. Well, I mean, if you think about culturally what happened, every song, every painting was about God until 100 years ago.

2:48:09And now every song is about love. I think they're talking about the same thing, but that's maybe in an old hippie. So Roman Empire became a church. British Empire became a bank. So we gave our empire back. We said, oh, yeah, sorry, we, oh, sorry about that. You can have that back. We gave, you know, Saudi Arabia back and one, all these other places that we sort of were taking the resources. And then they had their own money. And then we went, oh, well, what are you, what are you doing with that money? Because we've got this thing called the city of London. What, I tell you what, it's your money, but we're going to hold it.

2:48:45We'll have it over here. Is that okay? Yeah, fine. Great. So we still got that thing of like, and culturally, I think, you know, America is, I mean, America's extraordinary. It's an extraordinary place. It's kind of based on this amazing premise. It strikes me that America is, it's better now, objectively, than it has ever been. And subjectively, worse than it's ever been. So you go, the experience, it seems bad. But objectively, when you look at the metrics, it's good. So that's kind of Stephen Pinker thing. But I mean, subjectivity is important. Like people aren't, people feel like they're at war.

2:49:30And actually, this is the land of milk and honey. But, you know, it's, it's, and I think it's still got a bit of that thing of like the, you know, Austin, Texas maybe has it as much as anywhere. It's, it's, it's whispering, you know, going to yourself. Yeah. The pursuit of happiness. Yeah. It's still got that kind of, that, that dream. Well, I'm always fascinated how people from other parts of the world see it. That's what's interesting. When someone comes here and they just like look around, like I had the trigger nonmetry guys here the other day. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Francis and Constan, and when we were here and we were coming to the club, they're like, mate, this place is incredible.

2:50:11Like they're just the freedom that you guys have. And the, the, the wildness is in the air. Like it's so, it's so intoxicating and exciting. Like this is something, something's really happening here. Well, you know, it's that it's a beacon. It's always been a bit of a beacon, America. Because it's kind of founded on an idea. And, you know, it's that it devils in the detail. Well, I always think of the Statue of Liberty. You've always seen there's a thing in Paris in the Muse d 'Aurzée. There's the model. They made a model of the, because it was crowd -funded. The Statue of Liberty. It was a gift from the people of France, the people of America, right?

2:50:49Kind of post -revolution. They thought, well, this is a good idea. Yeah, yeah. We'll get them something nice. We'll get them a nice statue. So they funded it. The French people gave money. And the thing, when you see it, when you see the model of the Statue of Liberty, you realize she's not just carrying a torch. She's walking forward. She's moving forward. And it kind of changes it. It's, you know, there'll be, I think there's potential for, I mean, I think America hasn't seen its finest days yet. I would, I would hope. Now, I would hope as well. I mean, Britain has to find a new place in the world.

2:51:22You know, Brexit and everything happened. We need to find, you know, its purpose. Like, I think with people, with nations, with the world, it's like finding purpose is very important. Yeah. And what's the next, you know, purpose going to be, how are we going to fit in? What's our place going to be? Yeah. Let's end there. It's perfect. Fun talking. Fuck yeah. Yeah, appreciate your brother. Thank you very much. Thanks for being here. Oh, tell everybody about your torch. Oh, um, You're a big torch. I'm shilling a torch. Yeah, okay. Hi, hi. My name's, now, now, I know we talked a lot about suicide, but I'm a really funny guy.

2:52:01Come to me life. That's a gear change, isn't it? It is. Yeah, it's, it's a, if you care to buy the best, come and see me live. I, I'm a one line a guy. Very edgy. I'm on Netflix. Check me out before you come to the show. It might not be for you. It might be. You're a very nice guy. All right. It's not fair. Thank you very much. Appreciate you, man. My pleasure. All right. Bye, buddy.