#2053 - Danny & Michael Philippou

21:34We never set out to be YouTubers, but the world's so fun, you know. And it's instant gratification. You see growth, comments, likes, you know, and, you know, and cool opportunities to like go to cool. Cool countries and do like awesome. You end up just like your trace your chasing trends and you're just following the algorithm. And you're not really expressing yourself towards the end. So that's what I was like, we were doing that. Oh, we worked. It was more like you could, yeah, like it was like our videos are like crazy, like action comedy. But stunts stunts stuff that we don't like the movies we start like watching is very different to the stuff we were making.

22:12So if we couldn't, you couldn't do like a deep serious thing on our channel, like, uh, because people just click off straight away, you know, you have to be like, you had someone to jump through a window like within three seconds. Could never express myself personally like I wanted to have scenes where two characters can sit down and have a conversation. But all of our YouTube channel, we weren't able to do that. But hold on as you say we're unable to you just didn't want to because you didn't think it'd get as much engagement. Well, I think that the audience that we built would be like, what the fuck is this?

22:37But how do you know? We posted some like longer stuff. Yeah, yeah. But you know what? It's actually true. We never did like a, we never went for it in that way and tried to do it. But we just saw once we had like a minute intro, like a slow intro. And then you see the attention rate and it's just people that think the last minute, watch the whole thing. But you were captured by that. Like so that the attention span was what motivated you to either do or not do something. Yeah, because it affects your reach. Yeah, yeah. It's a good thing to be chasing the algorithm. But we would never, like YouTube would always tell us things to, we'd never listen to them.

23:13Like if you do this, you'll get more and get what you mean. What you mean me, you do like someone contacted you. Yeah. We tried to coach you on how to do it. Well, the first shit we didn't put ads on our videos at first. YouTube was like, first like dude, put ads on your stuff. Like, nah, we're not doing this for money. We don't want to just like, we're artists. We're artists, dude. We're artists. We're artists. We're artists. We get hit by cars and we practice medicine. Can I see, can I see you get hit by a car? They're good one. I don't see it in here unless I missed it. It's the very beginning of it.

23:45Oh, wait, what? Did you send my phone? I said that. He's the unreliable to it. He's so stupid. Hey man. Look at the ADD drugs that give you over in Australia. Because you guys are on some shit. Yeah, well, we haven't on any medication. Well, not what we need to be. You know, first part. No, nothing you need to be. Good? No, no, no. No, what do you have as a superpower? But it's too sporadic. Yeah, but that's okay. That's okay. That's okay. Because that creates creativity. Right. And it also does this on podcasts. Yeah, it's okay. That's right. What was the last fist fight you were in, Joe? Fist fight?

24:18Yeah, what was the last brawl you were in? I'm not really a braw person. But you have to be a bar. What do you think you guys are the bar? Well, I want to hear about this last fight. I have void fights. I haven't been in a fight fights. I guess that was in high school, other than like an organized fight. Oh, right. So it was in high school, was you lost fist fight? Yeah. What were you fighting? Like a fist fight with another kid? Yeah. What happened? Why'd you do it? Oh, I don't remember. Just some bullshit. Did you win? The last one I did. But the one before that you got beaten. I definitely lost a bunch of them.

24:46That's how I got into martial arts. Get my ass kicked. I always get your ass kicked. What was the comedy? I mean, it was just get bullied. You know, some kids would find you and beat you up. Or try to beat you up or things along those lines. Nothing, nothing serious. It's like a thing in high school, hey, like you're automatically tested at a weird high school, too. See, this is you right here? Oh, God. Yeah, the boy is supposed to be like, yeah, okay. Shut the fuck up and play it. Cool. Oh, I did jump in front of that car. Hey, sir. For doing it, it's a dead. It's a dead. She's fucking Christ.

25:20Oh, my God, dude. No helmet. No padding. Oh, yeah. So, yeah. I did a kid not that kid there. This is like a parody. Oh, yeah. It's a parody of like, it's like kids. It all don't try this. Yes. No, yeah. It was parodying that stuff. Did people get mad at you because people were trying to imitate what you guys are doing, getting hit by cars and saying that it's irresponsible? No, because our stuff was always like that one was paying out YouTube like trends like that, like the tie -up on challenge and things like that. That was like paying that out. Our stuff was always like a filmmaker. Like it was like, it was like stunts and things, but it was done through like it's seen, like a movie scene and stuff.

26:02It wasn't like jackass, whereas like just go jump in front of it. You've said like 64 times. That's okay. No, nonsense. Like, what's your problem? Do I have to like lay you out in front of Joe right now? Like, you can give it a shot. Would you start commentating if me and Michael start a Broadway right now? No, I'd probably separate you. Oh, that's very nice. It's responsible of you. He probably jumped in. I don't want you to break any wires. Would you? Would you, you know, how there's the influence of boxing scene? You know, should they do something like that in UFC where different people that are more behind the scenes fight each other?

26:32No. You versus Bruce Buffer. No. Would you watch that? No, you want to watch people fight that are actual fighters. You don't want to watch people fight each other. Dude, I feel like if you were going to fight Bruce Buffer, that would sell really well. Bruce Buffer is my friend. I know, but... I don't know. Bruce Buffer. That's an example. But do you know what I mean? People would want to watch that. Yeah, but that's like a thing where it's like the YouTube stuff. Yeah, you guys are thinking too much about likes and engagement. Yeah. No, switch it up now. Let's get back to talk to me. You know what friends with Israel are, right, Sonia?

27:00Are you friends with them? Yeah. I love that, dude. And he's the fucking coolest motherfucker in the world. Yeah. Yeah. David, he's brother. I've met him when he was with Israel, but not like... He is the funniest guy ever. They're whole families. Oh, they're so cool, man. Like, is he sore? Like, we met him through talk to me and then we went to his premiere for his documentary and stuff and then like... I used to watch him fight, and he's a fury and adelaide in South Australia. Oh, wow. So I was a fan of him way back when I remember him, like just... The first time I saw him fight, he was main event.

27:32And he was fighting the champ. And I was like, oh, man. And this guy's gonna get killed because it's easy. But then, is he just flying the dude in the face? Like, first round just... And the guy didn't get up half now. Everyone started leaving. Five. That's crazy. It was so like... Savage and the way that he moves is like... And there's like a flow in a rhythm. Like, the last fight, we went through it. The last fight. And as unfortunate, what happened, but... Here, when he came out like a moonwalking, it was like, oh, man, I love... He's got such a fucking vibe about it. He's the best... He's the...

28:02Stage presence. Cool, the sky above. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so awesome. We want to cast him in something. Yeah. Yeah, it's a good idea. Because I feel like he could act. Fuck yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was on stunts. So, did you guys write, talk to me? Did you... How did the idea come about? There was these neighbors that we watched grow up. And one of them was experimenting with drugs for the first time. And was having a negative reaction to what he'd taken. And he was on the floor convulsing. And the kids that he was with weren't helping him. They'll filming him and laughing at him. Oh, Jesus. So that was the first...

28:33That was the first thing that really stuck into my head that I wanted to put on the page. There was a guy named Daily Pearson, who produces a show called Bluey in Australia. It's like a cartoon kid show. He had a short film that was about kids having fun with possession. It was a comedy horror short. And he said... There was a hand or anything. There was a hand or anything like that. There was that kind of concept of like using it for fun. Like possession for fun. And everything... So I did a rewrite of the short film. And then once I did that, I just couldn't stop writing. So within the first...

29:02Well, like 10 days, 12 days, I had 80 pages for a script. And I've got a co -writer named Bill Hinsman that I send everything through. And we just collaborate and bounce drafts back and forth. So that happened around 2018, 2019. And then we decided that we're going to move out of Australia, move to Hollywood, set a good bite. All our friends and family did a big dramatic goodbye. Well, like we're going to go to LA, and we're going to sell this fucking script. And it's going to take years to sell it. We were... Like we're going to move there to sell it. Right. We went out there and everybody said no.

29:31Every single... Every studio said no. And we couldn't get meetings anywhere. There's like a low budget place called Shut Up. There's like low budget horror films. We couldn't even get a meeting in there. So it was... Being a YouTuber comes of like a... There's like a stigma attached to it. If you want to break outside of it, there's like a stigma for being a YouTuber. Right. Because people knew... Like we can keep an audience's attention for five minutes. But I feel so different. Like people will go, yeah, you're a YouTuber, not a filmmaker. But then like there was one studio that was like eventually...

30:01But after that, we reached out to Causeway Films, who marketed some work experience on this horror film called The Bobbadook. And Bobbadook. I love the movie. Yeah, yeah. So Michael was... I was not... I was not... You were work experience on The Bobbadook. I was production runner. Well, Michael was paid to drive around actors. Yeah. And Daniel was... You did lighting. I did lighting. Work experience was like an intern. For... Yeah. So we reached out to Causeway Films and said, we've got this project. We sent it through to them. They were surprisingly interested. And surprisingly took a chance on us.

30:29They helped us develop the script further. So we did another draft. And then probably after three months of them were ready to go. And by then, another company in Hollywood reached out. And we're going to make it. But they started giving us creative notes that were... pushing it into a bit more of a typical direction. They weren't bad notes at all. But it was sort of wanting to explore where the hand came from, explore how to be, to explore who the demons were. And it felt too typical. Whereas I really wanted the kids to be in out of their depth. And open their heads and not understand what it is that they're messing with.

31:00That was part of the intrigue of the film. It's like, what is that? Where did they get that? And then you don't really explain it that well, which is kind of cool. Yeah, yeah, which is what we wanted to do as well. And it also seemed like typical, like what kids would do if they were partying and someone brought something fucking crazy out. There would be a lot of confusion. Yeah, yeah. Instead of having a clearly defined origin story of it. Or like the scene where they go to the library and they dig up the old archive footage. Yeah. Yeah, this was back in the day of the 18th century. Yeah, so yeah.

31:30We had, we know what it is, but even the kids they have an idea of what they think the rules are. But that's not necessarily the rules. That's just what they think they are. Right. Right. And everybody's body reacts differently to drugs. So one person's experience with weed will be different from another person's experience of weed. And so we wanted to sort of have that sort of vibe with the hand. Yeah, like they've got rules based on like, when I do it, you know, like, that's it. Like, 90s after you're a good man, like, but depending on your mental state or the way that your body reacts to it, it's going to be very different.

31:59So, and it's also that thing of like how people, if you see someone drunk like you with a friend and they're drunk, like you find it funny, like someone's drunk at that. But if they're like, say they're families religious, I remember a friend's family who was very religious, they came and he was like drunk in his underwear vomiting. And we thought it was funny. And then I looked over and his mom was crying. And she was like, she was like, you know, that's not her perception of it as well. It's like that's what it sounds like a devil in a son or something like. He was like, so like fucked up. And it was that that was like sticking as well.

32:27It's like just different interpretations of what's going on. So the kids are having fun with it, but there's that kind of an undertone of the reality of it's very different to the way that they're perceiving it. So when you're creating something like this, like when you're creating the script and the storyline, do you guys disagree with direction? Is it how collaborative is it? Well, I can't ever write with Michael. We'll just butt heads too much and we'll start fighting. So my co -writer Bill Hinsman, him and I will work on stuff together. And then when we've got a draft, we'll present it to Michael.

32:55Yeah. And then he just starts fucking tearing into it saying it's boring and it's shit. If you like, because when you're like creating like the story and stuff, if there's no like set ending, I'll have ideas in Danny Will as well. So it'll kind of be in two different directions. I get it could get yanked in two different directions. But if Danny does like, because we write scripts separately, then there's like the outlines, okay, I know what you're going for and then add notes that way, as opposed to like trying to veer it into a different thing. And then also writing so personal and you're exploring really personal themes.

33:25And Michael and I just don't get that deep and personal with each other. Even though our brothers, we'd find that really awkward or we just don't have that sort of relationship. We have more of a working relationship as opposed to... And we just, that's like, it's our whole lives is filming and stuff. So there's, but as we're like, we don't go, oh, let's go hang out or whatever, like, you know, we're always traveling together and stuff. But we don't like, oh, let's do this together. It's always film related. And so, are you like at the end of it before you start filming? Do you guys have to get approval on the final script?

33:54Is it like, did they have to give you the green light? Like, what is the process between you come up the concept, creating a script, then give... Okay, we're back. So do we like continue the sentence? Like, it just happened or... No, where were we? Do you remember where we were? I tracked something down for you. This is one of the drugs I talked about. What is it? I can't. Can you pronounce that? No. No. Yeah. Yeah, this is... I'll try to look it up. Well, it says, Phase 1 single randomized open labels study to assess the pharmaceutical... Well, I don't even know what this word is. Pharma kinetics safety and tolerability of ABP 787 Dutorated...

34:45Oh, boy. This is... Dextro methor fan, Hydro bromide, quinide sulfate... Do you get that one, Jack? And healthy volunteers. Well, this is what... So I thought I was never listening, but I was listening. I said, no, what the fuck they were saying. That's the drug, yeah. Tell us stuff like that. I wonder... It sounds like something they're definitely going to pull from the markets. It sounds like one to get sued for. It's like... How do you even come up with a name like that? Like, oh, it's cool. Unless it's... It's on purpose to trick people. No, I think it's like... No, it's scientific. Yeah. Oh, no.

35:23It's like every... How do we get every letter of the alphabet into something that sounds like... That doesn't even sound like it's of what... Yeah, I would. But that's one of the drugs I took. That was the one where my arm got paralyzed. True. So that's okay though. Okay. Okay. Where were we? We were talking about... Talk to me. We were talking about how the process from going from... Okay. How do you get the script picked up to actually shoot it? Yeah, so we got a blackout. That was a blackout. Yeah, we got a blackout in the studio. So we got to... The script gets approval. Yeah. You manage to dodge all the obvious tropes.

35:58Yeah, but... I remember I got into the studios... The people that financed it were still iffy and us directing. They said to Sam, our producer, like, can you... What have they done exactly? Can you send some stuff? They were still a little bit unsure. Because there's a big gamble with some of the money. So we sent them the car hit video. No. Yes. Well, we just sent them some examples of a more narrative -driven video, which our YouTube videos never really were. So it was hard. I remember we did a short film called Deluge before we started the YouTube channel. So was there talk of someone else taking it over?

36:28That's what... They didn't say that specifically, but... The thing is, one of the reasons we didn't go with the Hollywood studios because they would have final car and be able to make changes in the staff. And like... Yeah. Every single shot and sound effect and everything was so like... I guess have a strong sense of how we want it. I couldn't imagine having that control taken away from us. So we went the independent route, lost half the budget, and it was supposed to be an eight -week shoot. We ended up in drops of seven, then a six -and -a -five. So in five weeks, we lost an extra million dollars out of the budget because we cast Sofie Wilde.

37:03Because she wasn't a name yet, as a lead. So they took a million dollars with you? Yeah, yeah. But it was... She was great. She was incredible. She is the best. And now she's doing... Like, she's got a lot of stuff coming up, which is amazing. Like, it was worth it to us because she was the best performer. And like, I've never... Man, it's such an amazing experience having someone that's... So good at their craft and like, we're elevated to a point higher than you could imagine in your mind. Like, we have a strong thing of like, how we want it to be. You get amazing artists like that, and they just fucking elevate it.

37:36She was so committed, there were days when we asked her not to sleep and come to set, not having slept. Because her character's losing her mind, or she's meant to have been up on that. So she would do that. There was a scene where she started hitting herself. And she was so committed, she started beating the crap out of herself for real. She was just so caught up in that. She was the character in the moment, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so she was like... Yeah, and because it was such a short shoot, like we had to really... And it was... It was during... COVID was... Like, down, but coming back up. So if you get...

38:05Yeah, if you get COVID, then you know, you can't come to set for a week or... So it was like survival on set, like... There was one week where we lost like seven people, and that was on Friday. Like, come Monday, there's gonna be no one left. Like, yeah, we're just like losing so many people. Everyone was constantly getting tested. I mean, you have the production shut down. Yeah, we were gonna finish it, we were gonna make it on budget. There was like budget set aside for certain emergency situations, but it was like really, really tight. So we had to reinvest all of our fees back into the film.

38:34Our producer reinvested all of our fees back into the film to make sure that we could get Sophie. And it was just a race for the finish line. It was so... There was days where we had to shoot eight minutes of the film in one day. It was usually on a film that's supposed to be... Like, on average, what, 90 seconds? Something like that. Yeah. The day of filming. So how did the film get so popular? Well, so we had a... Was it just word of mouth? Well, we got picked up from... So we got into Sundance Film Festival, which is like... Really like prestigious film festival, one of the biggest in the world, Sundance.

39:06And we got into that somehow. And then there was, I think like, word started spreading there. So we were getting contacted by like all the agencies, like all these big, you know, talent agencies. And we're getting like... And they were getting people to like reach out to us. So we're getting like two, three hundred emails a day of like people like, oh, Simon, with us, like this thing. So the word was spreading before the movie, even. No one even saw the movie. I think they spoke to the people at Sundance, like what's... Like a buzz tie at all or something. And that came up. So it was like... It was like this chaotic like...

39:39Yeah, like a strange... Everything we're trying to get achieved in our life, like being in film was like... And like it was scratching the door forever, just like... Blu -opened. And then everything was like... Like the most fucking... It was overwhelming. We spent all of Sundance, because we had the crew there and the cast there. Everyone was just crying the entire time. It was so overwhelming. And even all those emails, all these people reaching out, all these heroes of ours, all these companies that you've seen so many products from saying, what a look at this script, what a look at this. It was the first time I got so overwhelmed, I couldn't even open emails.

40:11I couldn't look or I was so... This just feels surreal. Everything felt like... Yeah, like like Jordan Pills and the message, like randomly. And then Aureasta, who did her redditary, he came to the premiere. And like, man, it was... There was all this hype around the movie before anyone saw her. I was like, man, I would have rather it be like... No one knows, like, you just go in not knowing, expecting anything. But there was this really high expectation going into it. We were sitting in the back of the theatre just cringing, man. Like, it was the most painful experience, because it was the first time we were going to be exposed to critics.

40:43And like harsh critics, you know, Sundance and things like that. We wanted audience members just in the theatre, but I think it was all just industry professionals. So it was terrifying. It was... I was troughing so bad throughout the screening, thinking it was playing like shit. Yeah, people would get up. And it was going to the toilet, and they opened the back door, and then light would go all over the crowd. I was like, oh, yeah. It's just constantly people were moving around. I'm like, wait, it's the movie, boy, why is people moving to the toilet? And it was like a midnight screening as well.

41:11Like, they played at midnight in Egyptian theatre. It was like a big famous theatre. And like, it was midnight, so it was late. People like a little bit maybe drunk. Or, you know, it was like a weird... But yeah, that whole night, I just remember being really emotional and troughing a lot and... Troughing. Troughing. In film, like this... Peaks and troughs. Peaks and troughs. Oh, so it was like troughing and feeling really down. We went up to R .E .S. that told, apologise to him after the movie. I literally got up to say, I'm so sorry you got dragged here, because of all this hype for no reason.

41:39I went to apologise to him. So I walked up to him. I'm like, bro, I'm so sorry that... And he's like, that was amazing. And I was like, what the fuck? And then he's... So you thought it wasn't being received well just because people were distracted and moving around. Or just you guys were hyper sensitive. Hyper sensitive, if I say I'm small things. Yeah, anything that was like, you know, like a crackle in the speaker or someone going to the toilet was like... You're an army getting. I'm overthinking. It was such a very heightened emotional moment that every small thing I was like, this is playing like shit.

42:06So when did you realise that it wasn't? When did you realise that this is a hit? At that night, our producer said, A24, I want to make an offer on the film. I was like, what the fuck? A24? Which is, we would joke about it on set. Oh, this is very A24. This film, this is a very A24 shot. You know, when A24? No, what's that? So there are distribution company. No, there are also... They are a company production company. They're like the most prestigious... Like, it kind of indie studio thing. Like, they're really selective with their talent. And it's kind of like art films. Can you give me an example of a film?

42:42Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's marketing. One of my all -time favourites. That was, yeah. I've watched that movie like 10 times. Yeah, it's incredible. Fuckin' love that movie. Which, that's another great movie. Yeah, they were really good stuff. Uncut gems. Oh, shit. I love that movie. Yeah, we love all these films as well. Oh, so they make dope movies. Yeah, they make amazing movies. Oh, everything everywhere all at once too. Oh, shit. The Daniels. So that's the thing. We were at a party once with all those directors and actors and staff. And it was like, we never felt more out of place. Because they're like, you know, I know we're stupid, the proper film directors.

43:18We feel so unsophisticated on a... That's good. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's just authentic. Oh, yeah. It's definitely a stereotypical movie making human being to make a great movie, obviously. Yeah, I think you're very... Yeah, yeah. It's like a thing like, I'm ever Adam Sandler walked in the room. And I'm like, fuck an Adam Sandler. I'm like, I want to say something to him. And I was like, so like, it was like meeting you. And I was like, hey, game over. And I was like, hey, bro, big fan. Yeah, what's up? And he's like, we're having fun. He would walk past you. Yeah, it was exactly that. Vodka starts being a huge fanboy.

43:52Yeah, I was like a fanboy. A huge fanboy. What is it here? Like, I can't believe I'm here. Like, Vodka, fuck, be professional. What do you do? Yeah, like, we have to like, we're a suit and like, sit by a teenies or something. I don't know. No, just be yourself. Be yourself. I'll be annoying, you know. Yeah, just be yourself. Yeah, well, I do have a nightmare of being ourselves. I have a nightmare of like, you like chewing me out on something. And then, you know, then I'll be your comments on you. She's like, hey, you full of these fuck guys. Yeah, like, yeah, yeah, fuck you. I have a nightmare of being here as well.

44:20You guys have a nightmare of being here? Yeah, Joe. So whatever you say, like, I agree with me. Yeah, please don't worry. It's working great. No need for nightmares. This is fun. So the film, like, I don't think anybody told me about it. I'm pretty sure I just found it. Clicked it. That's not the same. Yeah, it was because we always look in top horror movies. And it was one of the top movies. It's, oh, yeah, it's, it's cost $90 million worldwide. Wow. Which is, man. That's incredible. When we, when there are critical reception as well, it's on like, in the, like, we, just like, you know, rotten tomatoes.

44:56How they, yeah, in the 90s, 94%. Yeah, I think that's one of the things that I saw when I clicked on it. Yeah, rotten tomatoes. That put a big, really high rating. Yeah, which is like, yeah. Sounds like I'll give it a try. And then we watched the preview. And I said, fuck yeah, let's watch this thing. Oh, hell yeah. It seems so interesting. And it was so good. You guys nailed it. It was so original. Like, that was the most impressive thing about it is because you're taking this, this sort of genre with, you know, possession and demonic possession. And you, you turned it into this very unique thing.

45:29Yeah. It wasn't like anything else I'd ever seen. It was really fucking good, man. And I'd love the fact that you guys were so young and that it was just, it was completely out of your mind. You know, it wasn't like you were trying to make some derivative thing. It was really good, man. Oh, thank you. That was the thing. That was the risk. Like, when we walked away from the studio, it's like, that was guaranteed theatrical release. And we're like, oh, let's do the indie thing. Even shooting in Australia was a thing because Australia movies don't make money. When we reverse our fees, our lawyers like, don't do that.

46:00It's like, don't do that. Australia movies don't make fucking money. He said, eight percent of Australian films make their budget back. But again, like, the money thing was like, whatever. Like, if we wanted to make the best movie and that was the most authentic thing was doing it in Australia. But the accents for some reason don't translate. Even Australians don't like watching Australian movies sometimes. There's a cultural cringe or something. Yeah, because we don't sound cinematic. We don't sound epic. Oh, yeah. But that made it more authentic. Like, it really was kids just hanging out party and doing something insane.

46:29Yeah, I think there's a take on that as well. Like, what would kids do if this was real? Right. And that's exactly what they'd be doing. Yes, exactly. You know, especially now where it's like, you know, we all have that kind of thirst for attention and engagement and clicks. So your people are doing things to get horrible things to get attention. Even if it's negative, what your moral compass isn't developed yet, you're like, you're seeing, oh, this is popularity. Even if it's negative, I'm still getting attention. And even it happens to adults as well. To him, but Joe Rogan was going to fight Bruce Buffer.

47:03How long did it take? Was it a slow build? How long did it take before it hit like 90 million? I think it's been cinemas for a while now. It's still has a kind of cinemas right now. Really? I think every week they like drop it by half. They're amount of theaters that it plays in. And the way they promoted it was like, I think A24 does more than that. And this whole world, like making stuff where that's our whole lives. But the stuff after all this stuff, I have no idea what, like this is such a new process for us, like marketing and releasing all that stuff. So I think the way that they do. So we've got a publicist.

47:39Oh man, it was the first time we had like, you know, like our schedules now. It's good that we have like management now that it gives us a schedule because we have no idea what's happening every second. But yeah, the publicist that you go to the new thing, there's like a list of like 30 interviews that you're doing that day. And then like you see, there's like some control. It was, it was, it was a lot of word of mouth screenings. And yeah, they didn't do like billboards and things like that. That wasn't the way that they promote. Yeah. They did like showing the movie to people that they think would talk about it.

48:07And then like kind of spread that way, I guess. It was a word of mouth campaign. Yeah, yeah. So it just sort of slowly kept going. Yeah. Because we're promoting it since Sundance because we got into Sundance, which we did that whole thing there. Then in February, we were in Berlin Film Festival, which is a bit more promo there. And then March, we're in South by Southwest here in Texas. And so all those screenings just came word of mouth. And then they were just, yeah. And then like I guess it did really good in South America. Like Mexico, Peru, like all those places. And they went hard on the marketing.

48:39There's a company called Simon Films. They made like a giant hand. They'll parading through the streets. Yeah. So fucking awesome. I was like, man, I want to go over there. Like I want to go picture like they had like a whole like a bus stop. Or it was like four bus stops with like hands in between them, like all in the road for the film. So it was like, yeah, next to the hard. Yeah, I was like, man, next time because we're going to do a sequel. Mexico. Yeah, do a sequel now. Yeah, even when you're writing something like that, you get so caught up in the world and with the characters. You can't help but start writing scenes for a sequel.

49:08And so I had ideas for it. And I told A24. I said, if it's successful, I would be so down to do a sequel. So I just sort of planted the seed and every Q &A that we did in these like word of mouth screening. So I was like, you know, eight or three fours should give us a, I was always just sort of hinting saying I would do it if they wanted to do it. That's a big thing now with horror movies where they have all these spin -offs. Like look at the conjuring. How many movies do they have off of that? Yeah, yeah. There's a whole conjuring universe. Yeah. It does help us to little five things in pop culture.

49:35If you look at Friday the 13th, you know, with Jason or Freddie. But it depends. What point doesn't become like a money grab, I guess, is like a thing where it's... Well, when you don't want to do it anymore. Yeah. And you're just doing it for the money. Or a cool thing, I think, would be if people wanted, because they're talking about, if you, like, imagine a movie where we get a cool, talented director, like Africa, right, a director, and then they do like a version of that world, like in their surroundings. That would be amazing. I'd love that. Yeah. Because it can be wherever. Even when we're with the Japanese distributors, they release the film really late.

50:12It's released. It hasn't come out yet. It hasn't come out yet. Japanese cinemas December 22nd. But what else would the Japanese distributors... I said I was like, if you can think of a director that would want to do a spin -off, I would love to see a Japanese... Because they make the best horror. The Japanese horror is the fucking best in the world. There's something about it. There's like a soul in Japanese horror that you don't get anywhere. And culturally as big, if you look at... So if we got Chuck here and Freddie... You're not on that level. No, let's talk about it. No, let's talk about it.

50:42So the Grudge and the Ring, you know, those are just as big and prevalent as those things. And they all just originate... I don't know what the garage is. Of the Grudge, Grudge. The Grudge. The Grudge. The Grudge. The Grudge. The Grudge. We talked too fast. Did you ever see the Ring versus the Grudge? No. Yeah, that was a real film. Was it really? Yeah. It was like Freddie versus Jason. Did you make that movie? No, I would have. But there was a... I could think... A good thing about shooting the movie... All that experience from YouTube, we were able to kind of bring that to the set. Because it was so...

51:18We had pulled things off before that we'd like new ways to pull things off that isn't the normal way. So if we were running under the gun or had to change things up, we were able to do it more on the flyer. Because we were... We've been in that environment for so long. Once we did these commercials in Norway, it was one of the random things. We did these Norwegian commercials with Magnus Colson. Do you know the Chessplayer Magnus Carlson? So he was in one of them. And it was like a... It was promoting like an internet brand. And we were... We went there... Ultibox. Yeah. And so we were there. And we wanted to have like this...

51:55Exploding bookshelf. And that was showing us like special effects. Like I know that little sparks. And I'm like, no dude, it has to be huge. The bookshelf has to explode. Massive. Big. And it's like 50 of those put together. And it's like, yeah. Big. And every day we'd see him in pre -production we're like, big. It has to be big. It has to be big. And then we rocked up on... Yeah. We rocked up on set. We rocked up on set. Right. And then the guy... The... This thing here there. That. So what happened was we rocked up on set. And he's like... Everyone needs to leave the studio. Well like, we have to leave the set.

52:36He's like, no. Everyone needs to leave the studio. Well like, wow. What's about to happen? And he's like, I don't know. And he'd like this bookshelf with... With DeGord or something? Something dynamite. Because yeah, we said big. So he like did like a dynamite or something on the wall. We went outside because he's like, leave the studio. Like, I'll fuck. We went out all went outside and we all hold it around like a... Like a monitor that could see inside. And then he goes, three, two, one. Press the button and the screen goes blank. And we're like, he just... And it was like, oh! And we're like, we opened the studio door and they're just...

53:09Steam started fucking coming out. Hey, man. If you look at that explosion, it blows a hole in the set. And there's... Watch the... Yeah, watch the background. This explosion is fucking huge. Is that really a person in there? So we got a page shot. We played shot. So we did him like reacting without... Right. Yeah, but did you see that hole in the set? Yeah. So there was like big chunks of like wood. Like just fucking rickish, like through the everything. And I was like, we don't have to leave the set for this. But then on that happened, he really delivered. Yeah. Because there was nothing left for that picture.

53:40It's not selling how big this explosion was, but it was fucking huge. There was a bookshelf and it was gone. It just vanished. Yeah. Poor guys. Really? But like it was good. All that stuff was just experienced to be like, you know. Like one day, there's a montage sequence in talk to me that whether or like having fun, like using it. And like we only had two hours to shoot that whole montage sequence. And we had 50 setups to get 50 shots we wanted. And we wanted to riff and like, you know, just like do improvisation. And the first AD was telling us, you can't... It's mathematically impossible to get all these shots in this amount of time.

54:16And we were like, on the set us control the set for these two hours. And we just had a boom box and we were like, and yeah, two cameras. And we were like, get in there, get the freaking gun of that. To the light and make up change. Go and boom, boom, boom. We had gypsies and the grips like, and we just like had this momentum that we were able to like just like shoot this. And I think that energy translates through the screen instead of just like, you know, set up. Actually, you're having fun now. No, the montage was one of my favorite parts. It was just very creative. Oh yeah, it was so fun. And having all the actors riff and being at it, there was a certain energy in the room and capturing it was incredible.

54:47But then the Sam out produce a port of society after that scene. She's like, this is not how you run a professional film. No, but she wasn't being a bitch about it. It was true. No, it was the truth. It was true. The first AD is like, what the hell is happening? Everyone's like, what a cheque. Don't worry about cheques. Don't worry about this. Just trying to know. Yeah, yeah. Once we get into the edit, who cares if something's not perfect. It was like, we need to get every single shot that we want for this one. Okay. Oh, boys, this is a question of yours. Does it feel like something's trying to stop this from happening?

55:19Not really, because it keeps starting up again. Oh, yeah. We just need to break it. It needs to have a little bit of a break every now and then. Joe does that. What is Gesta's shit? Yeah. Yeah. It's a bit of a bug out. Where were we? We're talking about the montage sequence, I believe. Can I just say, say, have you ever recorded one in the U -Loss World footage of like a podcast? Yeah. Once we filmed a video for Deadpool, promoting Deadpool. And we went to like a junction, like a junker, like a press junker. And we didn't know, well, like we don't really do interviews and things like that. And they said, uh, uh, just do whatever you want.

55:52So Danny went as like a crazy obsessed fan. And he had like this long black wig on. He was like, yeah. And we didn't tell anyone that he was that character. And then we went and interview like the writers and. And then one of the actors that he spoke to as well. And like, but we didn't tell them that Danny was this character. So they were like, it was really like an awkward like filming thing. And we ended up, we knew that we weren't, that day it wouldn't let us use a lot of it. But we ended up losing the footage. And like, our friend dropped the hard drive and then we fucking lost everything.

56:24Or we thought we did. And we had to tell them, because they had us in like Beverly Hills with us and we're like, oh man, sorry, we don't have the video anymore. And then they're like, what the fuck? But I'm eventually a year later, we found the footage like a backup of it. Somehow, I don't know how we had a backup of it. Yeah, yeah, and the saved the footage, but it was good because we could upload it. We uploaded it without our approvals. But it was not approved. Yeah. So it was really awkward. Anyway, that was my random story. It was about the montage sequence. Yeah, the montage sequence was good.

56:50You got told off Sam told us off, but in a nice way, because she has to keep things on track. Oh, Sam's the best producer. But that was your flexibility from doing YouTube videos. You guys should shoot things on the fly. Yeah, yeah. And even the Apple certain things off, even like our makeup, our special effects department was so fucking good. Yeah, makeup effects group. How did you decide how to have them look when they're being possessed? I knew that we didn't want it to feel too elevated and for them to feel and look like corpses. And so the eyes as well, to be like, you know, when you use contact lenses.

57:25Yeah, everything was practical. Scalera's big fat scalera's. You know, I put you on like people when they're on like pingers and your eye are changes. Pingers, my buddy. It's Australian term for like a taxi or. Yeah, pingers. Pingers, mate. You've never heard that one. Yeah, no. But yeah, red square and Adelaide made some pings. Yeah, and so yeah, we were told we set the actors down. Because makeup, our VFX always looks really odd around the eyes and you can always tell. So we had to sit them down and say it's going to be really uncomfortable. But we need everyone to be able to put these proper contact lenses in.

58:02Like we need to be able to do it. So I said, I will do it as well. I will wear these contact lenses. And if you do, I will have them like 30 minutes. Like I'm fucking taking them out. The most uncomfortable things in the world. Imagine. Yeah. But all the actors around of it and yeah, the makeup, the makeup are Bible. And there are so many references of real corpses and real dead bodies. And just try and capture it and make it feel really real and authentic. And not too, yeah, not too heightened. What's the makeup effects? Yeah. And also doing everything practically, even with the kid that's pulling his eyeball out of his face, we built his face on top of his face.

58:33So he could, you know, interact properly and prank a prosthetic face on his face. How do you have him slamming his head against things? So we did it a few different ways. We had the way that we initially thought of, which it worked. But we had some backups just in case. We had like a foam cover of the table. So he was just hitting his head on foam. And then we did one where we had like a head mold made of him. And then we're just slamming that into a root table. And we had like blood tubes going through his head and that for blood effects. That fucking kid, man. Up to six hours of makeup. Yeah.

59:05And you did it. Yeah. It just didn't complain once. In those scenes where we're like, you have to be out of focus, sitting on the bed, and he has to go through all those hours of makeup. And he just did it without complaining. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I did it, you did it. I'm for aesthetics. But it's something about it. Like when you do things practically, it has like a genuine feel. It feels a lot more real. Yeah. I can even if audiences don't understand it like base level, like what they look at, something will just not feel right. Right. Even if you can't verbalize what it is. The uncanny valley.

59:34The uncanny valley. Yeah. Yeah. The uncanny valley. Oh, come on. Oh, sorry, mate. What's that uncanny valley? There's something off about it. It's when you see CGI footage that's not quite there. It's not quite a real person, and you kind of know something's off. Yeah. Even if you, you know what, it's the same with things with sound and things like that. And people will not be able to say what it is if you're not like a, like a filmmaker. Right. But you just, yeah, you just feel the uncanny valley. Well, you know, if you've ever seen a photograph of a model car, and you know it's a model car, why is that?

1:00:06Yeah, it's true. It's true. Like let's get an example of that. Get a photo of a model car. Like, just say a model 1974 Trans Am. There's something about the model, like where you're looking at it, and it looks perfect. But you go, something's wrong. Is it the way the lighting of a lights are? I don't know, but it's almost impossible to describe. Yeah, yeah. Like if you, but I can tell, like if someone sends me like a photo, or if I look at it on Google, I can look at a tiny photograph on my phone and go, oh, that's a model car. It's on a real car. There's, you know, there's miniatures and films when they build a small version of something big.

1:00:46So, like a, like a house that gets destroyed by Godzilla. Yeah, yeah. But they do a thing called bigotures, but they make it a little bit bigger. What are these Jamie? These are model cars. I just have it super important. Yeah, I cannot tell. I cannot tell. Yeah, I can't tell there. There. That's, but that's trick for Todd. Where there I can tell. See what I'm saying? It's the light. No, it's the size of the, the ground. Yeah, but that's just because of the ground. But if that was on just concrete, it would be the same effect. Yeah, it's the lighting. I thought it was a light. You can see the paint.

1:01:15Right that one. That's a good example. Why can I, why can I, well, that's a shitty one. That's a shitty model car. Can't, see if there's some other examples, Jamie. I mean, other examples on Google. Yeah. Oh, there's one there. Yeah, it's the right, right? Yeah, that's a perfect example. Why does that look fake? Dude, I do think it's because it's clearly on the floor, on the ground. I think it's got to do with, it's the, what's surrounding it? And the way that the light is acting. Well, and also because it doesn't have like the amount of, I guess, like, like a little creases and light, like shining off it then a, that a normal car would like a, and there'd be a lot more light bouncing off it, I guess, on the other side.

1:01:57It would represent more surface area. Yeah, yeah, we used the, the variation in the light would represent more surface area. Yeah, when we were kids, we used to put toy cars in and blow them up and we thought it would look cool. That's a shitty version. It really didn't. How about that one, that red one? This one? Yeah, click on that. Well, that's on hardwood, you could tell. I feel like that was, when it's composed in, like, that other thing is, it's harder to tell. Well, it's better than CG. Oh, damn. That's a tough one. That looks fake. Ha, ha, ha, it looks little. Yeah, it does look a little small.

1:02:30But why? Fuck, it's a good question. I've stumped. But it does. Yeah, it does. It has to be, it has to make it, has a plastic look. That's how they do the bigotures because it needs to be a little bit bigger than this. This is too small. But is it the light, the way the light reflects off of it? Does it, in your head, does it generate this idea of a smaller thing? That's my theory. Is the, the level of detail and the light. Yeah, it's the light because it's like this. But this is kind of blurry, but still, I'm looking at it in my Thelix fake. Yeah. Click on the ones right there. Those right there.

1:03:02Okay, those all look fake. Why? It's because of the background as well, like, but clearly looking at something that is a mole. But that could easily be, you know, just some sort of a matte black floor and a black background. And they look, you know what, it kind of is like you can see the weight. It feels, you don't feel the weight or something about it. They look light. They look like a zippery. I don't know, man. I feel like if we put that into a proper background, like they'll have a picture, it'd be hard to tell. I think so too. Yeah. I think definitely this white car in the left would be the hardest to tell.

1:03:37Yeah. For some reason, that one seems the most real to me. Whereas there's something about the rough car, the yellow car that just seems fake. Yeah. It just seems small. I think it's the detail. Like the color is just like, it's like pure, full yellow. There's nothing else. Like, see it? I don't know. That looks like it's pretty bigger. That's a one four. Yeah. See that, if you zoom out, it's a one four model. Oh, okay. It's bigger. Yeah, see, bigger larger. It's bigger. So there's more light reflecting things. Right. Okay, so that's it. And instead of like like one piece of like, you like that yellow?

1:04:07Yeah, I'm saying it's so short. You could be completely wrong. I'm completely wrong. No, but I think he's right. I think if it was a matte car, like if it was matte paint, it would be more difficult to. That's why that's why those lower the rings, miniatures, and bigotures. The bigoture. Yeah, the bigger ones. That's one 24th. Oh, shit. That looks. Did that looks real to me? Really? The seats look fake. The seats look fake, but everything else looks real. That looks pretty real. I know what you're saying though. Oh, definitely. And that's the thing with movies. The fuck is that? You can never.

1:04:38What is that? Some stuff on YouTube. Click it. No, that's not. You caught on the roll. We're just getting you caught down a clicking rabbit hole. Yeah, we're going to get out the rabbit hole. Let's go down. We get on the subject. We're going to have VFX and Uncanny Valley. We think that. That's the thing is like, when we're recording that makeup, you have to roll for like five to ten minutes to try and grab something that. It looks realistic for, you know, one second. You just keep rolling. I'll move that. Change it out here. Look over here. Move your hand up here. You're just trying to find those magic frames.

1:05:12And lingering on it will take away from the effect when you're just trying to stay on it for too long. They're having those flashes of violence. And that's the thing. You don't have that. Yeah, like, yeah. And not. I think it's also not lingering on things to be like, oh, look what we've done. And then like lingering on like an impressive effect or anything like that. I appreciate movies more when they. They show something that's really impressive. But they don't just like keep cutting back to what I was short forever. There's like only just flashes of it. And you're like, right. That would have fucking taken forever.

1:05:39But they only showed it for like a second, you know. I love that stuff in movie. Which probably was a suck for the prosthetic department. It was a time in. It was like, yeah, yeah. It was like, yeah, yeah. It was like, yeah, yeah. They're like the, the drownable when they put all this like effort into it. Like took a long time to do bloated face everything. And she's on screen for like 15 frames. Yeah, but it's an effective 15 frames. Yeah. It's a thing. It stays of your longer. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And what was cool about doing all the YouTube stuff as well, our makeup artist, Bec Barado, who would help us do all the YouTube stuff for free, were able to get her as a head of department on the film and know that she can pull stuff off.

1:06:16Even though she hasn't got the experience of being a head of department in all these other films, we could vouch to her to our producers and say, no, we've been doing this for years with her. And she's super committed and she's super talented. There's a video that we did where we recreated Mortal Kombat fatalities. And it's the most graphic, violent thing ever. And she would help pull these effects off. That was like the crazy Corey Emory as well as one of guys that help us design with these effects. Are you like to show super violent on here or not really? What? Are you like to show super violent stuff?

1:06:43Can you look up, uh, right, Rack Rack, a Mortal Kombat fatality. He's already on it mate. I got a little feather in. Uh, little feather in. Yeah, here we are. Oh, yeah, there we are. Oh, Jesus. I remember it's him. Yeah, yeah. Are you seeing it? Yeah.

1:07:00So. Oh, Jesus. Right. But like all these small effects here, like the figures head.

1:07:11What the fuck? Can you take this school? Months fast out. But it's those really exaggerated effects when you shoot all that stuff. You can try and when you're trying to make something super realistic, practicing with the exaggerated stuff helps. Yeah, because then you can do that the bit. This is like showing ridiculous Mortal Kombat fatalities in real life. Very sticky, two day shoot. Jesus Christ. Okay. Yeah, you get the idea. Just ultra violence. But practicing with those super elevated things helps with the smaller stuff. Yeah, like, and you know the way like kind of shoot practically and stuff.

1:07:49Like we did the, it's, it's a lot more grounded in and people say that it was like too far sometimes in talk to me. But we're like, we could have made that scene go for three times longer. You're like, I said it was too far. What are those people? Like, do in a screening, people fainted in the cinema. I thought one of the screenings, yeah. It was the coolest thing ever. Yeah, it was perfect. And people working out. Did you guys love horror movies before you made this? Were you fans of the genre? It's always that thing when you're growing up and you're not allowed to watch something and makes you want to watch it.

1:08:22Our mum was so specific over certain classifications that we can't watch. Yeah, you could only watch PG, PG, that like mediums of violence, no low, low violence. It's different in Australia, the ratings. But it was like medium level violence, low level violence. Like we weren't allowed to watch. But there was a certain low level violence. Yeah, yeah. It was, there's a thrill to defying mum and I'm going to watch this fucking thing. But it's different because dad wouldn't give a fuck. Yeah, yeah. He's a little bit of a little bit of a young, he'd like watch whatever you want. And mum was like, you can't watch anything.

1:08:49And we had a grandfather who spoke no English. And we take him to the video store and then we get him to get us the R -rated stuff, like the adult stuff. And then he got told off. Dad's like, even dad was like, you can't get him, you can't get him that stuff. And then he got told off. And then we got him to get cartoons instead like anime, violent anime. Like the blood spraying itself. And then he got told off. Dad's like, no, that's too much. And he's like, it's a cut -down. It's a real cut -down. So he wouldn't have had that time. I used to love to, yeah, I loved it. I got to go to the Exorcist book.

1:09:22All those R -rated films he would always buy it for us. He would never understand. And then you'd just say, yeah, dad said it's okay. But, yeah, always that imagination when you look at things like the goose bump covers from Aurostein or if you go into the VHS, when you're looking at all those covers of horror films, when you go to the horror film section, like in the video stores, back in the day, kids, you go in there and then the horror section, like what the fuck is happening in that video? That's the imagination for his wild. Yeah. And then you're... I was just trying to capture that magic.

1:09:52And I was just over those, always, yeah, this fun to being thrilled or watching something he weren't supposed to see. Did you have one when you were a kid that scarred you? Yeah, what was your traumatic childhood film? Oh, I don't know. I loved horror movies when I was a kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You never got to know. You didn't have like a traumatic terrifying one. Well, you didn't watch one that fucked you off as a kid. No. Oh, really? No, they don't really fuck me out. Man, it did. Damn. We had a lady that used to take us to, when we were like 11, to go see the adult movies, like the horror movies.

1:10:19And she took us to see Texas Chainsaw Massacre, 2003. The remake. The remake. And the theater guys, like, the ladies, like, are you sure? Because they're too young to go, which is like, yeah, they're fine. And then we went in there and then I fucking, I had to leave. I felt sick. And I felt sick because I was like, we're trying to be mature and show the began handle of these movies. Michael runs out. And then the theater was like, told you. Yeah. I was like, fucking. So scared. I heard chainsaws from fucking, literally heard it's fucking chainsaw at home. And they're what? What was even there?

1:10:51Well, do you guys think back now on all these influences and all these things that happened and how it sort of led up to making films like this? Yeah, yeah. Because it's all the resistance, all the don't watch this, all the telling you what to do. So many different things. Because I remember, or any, since Mom was so specific on what we could watch with the classifications, I started collecting movie classifications. I was like, oh, and like I would break down and have a booklet of different film classifications. These weird. And here's one of the two bad turns away from being like a serial killer.

1:11:21I used to collect things that scared me. So I feel as news articles of stuff of killers and murderers, I would cut that out and collect it in a scrapbook. And that would get in my mind. All the teachers are so concerned, I got the fuck is this. But also obsessing on and trying to figure out what scared about it and collecting it made it less scary or something. But yeah, I was, yeah, I weird. Yeah, and then also like, if that's the same thing that you know, these things that influence you from the movie, like early childhood, you don't even realize. But I think a lot of it has to do with like, like your parents or something.

1:11:49Like we're all, we're affected in ways we don't even understand, you know, from such an early age. It only comes out down the line. That's where everyone goes like, and everyone has like the childhood trauma is right. But it feels like you are in everyone has a childhood trauma. Whether they're, you, parents weren't there or they were there or they were too nurturing. And then you can't go into the real world. There's like little things that change you like, and you don't even realize that they are. It's a turn the garage door shuts. Anything that happens to you before you turn 13, 12 and under is like, that's wavy now.

1:12:17It's part of you. So yeah, I don't know. There's all those little things and those influences and references. Yeah, and then like, and then because it's just things that you scared of as well, that you write into the film, like mental health, like, it runs in the family, like deep depression. Our mother's mom took her in life when she was like six. And she has, and then mom has like a real dark deep like a falls into that as well. And then you start thinking, is that hereditary? Probably why she wants to watch those movies. Yeah, maybe, yeah, maybe. There's so many different things, but you look at that and you see a reoccurring pattern.

1:12:56And you're like, is that my fate? And yeah, it is, it is in your head. It is part of you. It's part of your genes. It's genetic. But then also things like, I guess like everything we see is like a film scene or something. So it's like always just ideas going, and it's coming from all different things. When I start writing, I have to get into a certain headspace to write. I could ever just sit down and be like, okay, I've got two hours free. I'm going to write now. I have to get into a certain headspace. From writing a scene where characters are depressed. Like, I feel like I need to get a little bit depressed.

1:13:25So when I was writing this new thing that I'm working on, it was sort of staying up for two days straight, not sleeping, watching things that freaked me out, and then doing things in real life that would try and scare me. Like a murder people. No, not like murder people. Like, if I would say a whole night, I remember I would walk around in the neighborhoods at night. I would go for drives all night, late at night. And I have conversations with people that aren't there. I'm so caught up in it. If I've got a character that I'm writing, I can sit down and talk to them in the car. So I'll be driving and talking to this person that's not there.

1:13:54And then I'm like, I remember there was someone that lost their life at this cliff. It was probably like two o 'clock, this was a cut like a month or so ago. I drove out to that cliff at like three in the morning, and I went up there. And I'm talking to someone that's not there, but on this cliff edge. And getting to myself into this weird state where I'm a bit freaked out. And I was like, okay, I'm talking to this character that's here. Let's say someone that we know died here and we're trying to connect with this person. It's like, all right, let's do it again with that friend that I'm with, the imaginary one.

1:14:23What if he died and I'm trying to connect with him and run through scenarios in real life. And just do things that try to freak me out. I think we've found the side effects of those drugs. Yeah, are you guys now kind of committed to this sort of genre? Do you want to make all kinds of films? All kinds of stuff. We're developing that. See, we're developing Street Fighter at the moment, the video game into a film. And like for me, I like going to environments like that. So I travel to Thailand and I was trying to find Seagat, who's the in the character in the game. He's based on a real person. And he still does private sessions, Moitai.

1:15:00So I was like training and I had like little like clues of where he was. So I was like traveling around and like training Moitai and then speaking with people and trying to find the real life Seagat. And then like that, big in that environment just helps with like writing and ideas like that. Emersing yourself in the world, like really helps. Yeah, I'm talking to people that are like the characters that you're writing. Yeah, they are. I found a family of like 12 kids that grew up all fighters. And two of them are like, well, champions now. And they're like, they're just like at the backyard of their house and they just fucking fight every day.

1:15:35And like they had to they had to fight to, you know, to eat and like, I remember talking to one Mimi her name is, she's champion now. And she's like, if I wanted to because there was so many kids in her family with such low incomes, like if I wanted something special, I needed to fight. And I was like, I'm not going to be a bad guy. Because I think that's the only way we could afford it. So that world is like into so much inspiration that you get from stories and spend time with people. That's why I think action would be fun. What is the horror thing in your two often going into a weird mental headspace?

1:16:01It's so unhealthy and you can feel it being unhealthy, you know. It's like on your mental health. Well, I'm like, I can feel my sanity slip away if I wanted to let go of it when you're going to those zones. When you guys wrote talk to me, did you try to talk to someone who's had experiences with. So many people like that. Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. What did you, who did you talk to? There was, I'm about one friend that went for a really extreme trauma. And he taught me about this kinesiologist that made him levitate off this table. He's like, I, and this is someone that doesn't bullshit. It's not someone that just says things the same things.

1:16:33I really trust with this friend says. And he's like, Danny, I'm telling you I was levitating off the table. And I just couldn't stop crying afterwards. And he said that there was a demon attached to him and this woman, this kinesiologist pulled it out of him. So I was like, I really want to speak to this woman. I need to go talk to her. So I set aside three hours. I bought three hours of her. And I said that had a big conversation. She's like, yes, I'm seeing these things that are attached to you. I'm pulling them off. Oh, it's an octopus monster. It's a this, it's a that. And it felt too crazy.

1:17:03And she was doing stuff. I'm like, I do not believe it's at all. But then I look back on this friend who had this really extreme trauma. And I feel like he attached it to that. He's like, okay, the source of this, the reason why this happened is this being that is attached to me. And this person, I want to believe, is pulling this thing off of me now. And it's something that's really cathartic about it. And it's an emotional thing as opposed to an actual spiritual thing. Well, what do you think about the levitating part? I think that he was in a really heightened emotional state. And so he believed that was happening when actually maybe it wasn't.

1:17:38That's my theory. And what is the thing like, that's the thing with the supernatural. If you open your mind up to it, I feel like even if it's not happening, you will kind of think that it is in your mind. Like if you go into a room, like we, I love staying at haunted places. Like if there's a haunted place nearby, well, I love like just going to say, oh, this room's haunted. Like, oh, can I sleep in there? I want to experience whatever. If you go into that room and not know, and you're just like, you know, you'll just have a normal night. But if you go in there like, oh, someone was murdered in this room.

1:18:08A noise that happens at this time. You open yourself up to be like hyper sensitive to any kind of reaction for anything. I remember we, I went to this place called Capunda in South Australia, which is a town of, I think like houses that they bring over from like different places. And it was like haunted for some reason. And the church was haunted. And the back room of the church was the most haunted. Like so we were in this room, like two AM in the morning. And they're like, who wants to go in the back room and talk to the spirit Fred, his name is. And I was like, I will. And then I sat in this dark room.

1:18:43And we had like his infrared cameras. And I was sitting there. And I was like talking a Fred. I'm like, hey Fred, do you want to make a noise for me? Do I throw me across the room? You know, everyone says you're real. I don't believe that. And then I heard like a, I'm a heart just fucking sankin. And I like, oh my, I was sad then. I was like, I'll get the fuck out of this room and I went and just left. But if I had that same experience not knowing that, I would have heard and always met us. Whatever. Right. The power of suggestion. Yeah. And starts playing tricks on you. Yeah, I spoke to a psychic once.

1:19:17And I said, how do you, how much is it mental perception as opposed to reality? And she said, when I go into it because she does like room readings of houses and stuff with someone's lost their life or something like stuff like that. She goes like, Ryd's goes out of houses. And she said, I know it's real when I go to a room. I don't know the history of the house. And then I'll, I'll have a feeling that there's something here. Some presence. Some of you about a little boy that I just felt that in the, in my room. And he's sad and all this. And then later I do research and then find out that's a little boy died in that room.

1:19:52I just do not believe it. Oh, yeah. That's the thing is, that's the thing is, if there is, if it is real, the amount of like bullshit is around is like 99%. But who was the one? Who was the psychic that died? And then they got their wife to give them a code word. And they traveled around to all the most famous mediums in the world. And that a code word that him and his wife shared. So to say it was energy can. They're like, go and talk to these psychics, these mediums. And they're like, okay, is there a, oh, your wife is here talking to her. He's like, oh, okay. Oh, what is she saying a code word?

1:20:21They're like, um, no. Well, you know, I come with a connect all we're disconnecting from the spirit now. He went to all the most famous mediums in the world. And no one should say the fuck. Well, he started doing like a prize pool of like if anyone can guess this. No, that's a different. That's a different. That's a different. That's a different thing. That was the one where he was like, I put a code word up. I didn't believe this. Who, Deenie? Oh, it's you Deenie. Yes. Yeah. Oh, it was you Deenie. Uh, okay, she moved to Inwood Manhattan. She tried to connect with Harry during Sanstas with a code that only two of them knew about.

1:20:53To be sure that the spirit medium was not a fraud. The code was Rosa Bell answer tell. Pray answer. Look. Tell answer answer. Tell. Oh, so they had like a whole thing. No one can guess it because it's, well, we, we said it the, we said it the cause. Do you believe in psychics? Do you think people can? I think it is very possible that occasionally people can tune in and perceive information that's not readily available. I think that it's very possible that places have memory and that there's something about traumatic events and spectacular events that lead, like, almost a stain in a place. It is feel strange.

1:21:40Right. And I think that sometimes people think about someone and that person calls. And I don't know what that is. I would, it might be coincidence, but it might not be. Oh, yeah. It might be an emerging property of the human mind. So if you think about many of the emergency probably like language, how did it be developed over to even eyesight? How to eventually be developed? You know, if single -celled organisms didn't have it, I'm not sure if I can watch you going on. What's going on here? These annoying fucking things. But I think that it's very unlikely that these people that call themselves psychics have any real ability.

1:22:21It's never been proven. No one's ever been able to do like a psychic medium exercise where they've been able to tell someone something that was impossible for them. I've never seen anything like that. Yeah. James Randi used to have that million dollar thing where... That's the one, yeah. Yeah. And saying it would be a good thing to learn. Yeah. And okay, the body, it seems, because we've been to so many places and talked to so many people, and I've never experienced it personally. Well, there was one sort of a conversation. This is, I knew it was like more of a magic trick than reality, but there was this couple that we met, and they were in this room, and they said, when we hold hands, our power of connection will open the door to the spirit world, and you will hear spirits.

1:23:04And then we were sitting in the room... This is the first time ever. We've had any blackouts. Which you guys, this is the fourth one? Yeah. Well, we'll give it one more chance. Do you ever need those smelling salts? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Can I try it, shortly? We got this smelling salts, James. Try this thing. Try it, man. Oh my god. Smell it, Danny. No thanks. I'll find out which one is good. See which one is good.

1:23:41That's a good one. That's a good one. How do you smell it just a little bit? Get it right on your nose and breathe in. Yuck! What the fuck? Yeah. What the fuck is that? Give it to him. Dude, are you fucking serious? Come on, you're a drug rat. Yeah, fuck, Sy. Dude, get your asses in here, bro. I feel like I can't be peered off. You're a lab rat, do it. Oh, fuck, dude. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Let's go. What's with that? It's like someone to fucking lead your nostril on my mind. That's what it feels like. That one's been open for a few weeks. You should really try when they're brand new.

1:24:16Is it worse than that? Oh, yeah. Yeah, quite a bit. Dude. Yeah, quite a bit. I mean, I gave it a jolt, but it didn't really go down to my toes. God damn. That's the whole thing I went here. Dude, that's fucking crazy. Those guys do that stuff before they power live. I guess somehow another excites your system. I just want to get for a run. Yeah, there it is. Yeah, oh my god. I feel like that opens up your airways a bit as well. Does something. Probably not good. They see you're only supposed to do it twice in a day, right? We've done it. Dozens. I think it's only a plate, you know, and the loser has to do it.

1:24:51Yeah, the comedy club, the mothership, we have them laying around the green room. People are always like taking turns, taking turns. It's become a thing. Dude, that's like the hand. You should sneak it into... It's like the hand. Where did you guys come up with the concept for the hand? Uh, so my big inspiration point was this car accident that I was in when I was 16. And I sort of split my eye open here. And it was like a really, I went to sleep and back in my friend's car. Everyone had just got their pee plates and then he crashed it. And then I went to hospital afterwards at this bus to open face.

1:25:22And I just couldn't stop shaking in hospital. So I was like trembling, trembling. They were turning on all the heaters, giving me extra blankets. Doing anything they could to get me warm. I just would not stop shaking. And then my sister came into visit me. She sat next to me and she held my hand. And then the shaking just stopped. And it was just that moment, like the power of her touch pulled me out of this state of shock that I was in. And just, yeah. Hands and connection. And all that was in the first draft of the script. It was so prevalent. It was the main theme of the film. So it just felt right to be our object of horror.

1:25:54And did you try to... Did you have different ideas about where the hand came from? Oh, dude, we've got an entire mythology Bible that breaks down everything. Where it came from, who it went to, everyone that's ever had it. We've broken down everything. Every spirit that connected with each kid, why they were drawn to each of those kids. What emotions were they connecting to? So we've like blocked all that out. But like they were supposed to be a draft delivered. And then I kept the scripts exactly the same. It's like, yeah, but the pitch Bible, the mythology Bible was different, guys. They're like, I've never dropped the script on.

1:26:22I was like, yes, but this mythology Bible. It was just so much fun to be on screen. It's fun to explore and have just little hints at the history of it. Yeah, yeah. So I think for the sequel, we could explore that a little bit more. But even with the sequel, we're writing two versions of the sequel right now. One that's continuing on with the characters from the first film. And then another sequel idea, which is a whole bunch of different characters in a different country. I don't want to spoil the word, but I love the end of it. Oh, fuck yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's cool, circle. It's that thing that when you're like dropping and redrafting and you're always figuring things out, you can strengthen things and you really follow an idea or a theme.

1:26:56And you just find things like that ending. Yeah, and you punch them all through the script. That's a cool thing, like movies that are layered like that. And like work on different levels. That's the stuff that we like to watching. So when you get to that point in the script where you can really thread theme and stuff and subtext throughout the script, it just makes it feel so much more complete. Normally, when we write out, Paul Co -writer will just write like 50, 60 pages of scenes, moments, you know, characters, things like that, interactions. And there's no, we're not thinking of, oh, this is, you know, the midpoint.

1:27:26This is the characters, this point of the story that, like a film structure. It's just like, like a world and characters and things like that. And then like, like a basic kind of outline. And then our Paul Co -writer's like, okay, I've got to try and fit this into like film structure now. And like, this means this and like, kind of navigate the mess. Yeah, I'm just giving them. And always try and attribute different things with, so explain these are really important. And then, like, I remember when I grandfather passed away, it was Christmas day, and my dad was trying to give him CPR, and his vomit was stuck in his beard.

1:28:00Like, my dad was giving my grandfather CPR, and my grandfather's vomit was stuck in his beard. And I remember that was sticking in my mind, the vomit in his beard. So even that's in the scene where the dad pulls it out, the mom who's overdosed, and is trying to give a CPR. So it's just like tapping into small things like that. Anything that bothers you, just trying to express it in a way I'll put it in there. So yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, that's part of the writing process. The whole process of filming it, and then editing it, and then seeing a final draft. Like, what was that like when you watched the thing for the first time to all the way through?

1:28:33I remember, because we were editing while we were on set. We have to bump out of a location in three days. So we shoot all day, we'd go home at an edit all night. We'll go back to set shoot all day, then we go home at an edit all night. No sleep, no sleep. Come on three days in there. Yeah, yeah, three days for that fucking smelling salt for the day. Because it's sort of like, it's so engaging and stimulating. And you have to make sure that you've got every single shot that you could possibly want, because we know we don't have the budget to come back here. As soon as we wrap this location, we're done.

1:28:59That's the only shots we're ever going to get for this film forever. So that was like a thing. And I remember when I edited together some of the sequences, that first possession, I just started crying. Because I was like, fuck. I was like, fuck. I was like, crying because I was like, I can't believe what came out of this. And it's everyone, you know, our cinematographer, Aaron McCluskey, our production designer, Bethany Ryan, our producer, Samantha Jennings, the performances of everyone. It's all those crafts and all those masters putting all their energies into this one thing that makes it more heightened or more incredible than you could ever could have imagined.

1:29:32Even like our sound designer, Emma Borden -Jong. As soon as you started doing passes, you see things getting stronger of every single part. I don't know, man. It's the most... Yeah, you know, rewarding thing. It's time. The first time though, I feel bad for our editor. When it came time to edit the movie, I had an editor of the whole movie. Danny had an editor and the editor had an editor. And then he's like, let's just watch mine and give me broad strokes and then we started watching like, am I two minutes? You're like, oh, stop, stop. We got to do... We got to do it seen by scene. And then like, kind of look at all three cuts and kind of do it like that.

1:30:00So it was like a big process of like looking at what works best for the overall story. I think it's a annoying process because people don't usually work like that. It's a unique way to work. But because we've been doing so hands -on with the YouTube stuff. Well, luckily there were accommodating. All those heads and departments were down. Yeah, like to do that. But we were really involved in that. Is it difficult when you're so close to something and then you watch it to see it the way an outside person would see it? Because you just... You're aware of every detail and how it was made. And is it difficult to like have an objective perception of what the film is like?

1:30:35I say that when we finished it and I was like, this is really good. We'd bring in someone to watch it. So when we're at the editor Jeff Lam's house, his studio is underneath his house. So he brought his son in to just watch it with us. And you could feel when things are sagging and not working. And you need that outside as perspective when you're not attached to it. So yeah. And you could kind of see it in the body language that kind of like, he's just getting fucking boring now or something like that. You could just feel the energy of the room. Another thing you can do is separate it in yourself from it, taking a bit of a break from it and coming back to it.

1:31:05It's a good thing as well. That's good for writing too. Also having like a group, films do a lot. We only did it once where we had like a bunch of different people come in from like all different age ranges. And like, you know, we're like real old people like uncles, a teacher, younger like teenagers. And they all come and watch the movie. And then like asked, did it all make sense? Is there stuff that felt like it didn't make sense? Didn't click with you. Is that parts that sag? I got boring and you kind of get different import. And if a lot of people are saying the same thing, then you kind of go, you know, oh, maybe there's something here.

1:31:39Maybe that isn't clicking right now. Yeah. But every time we put it together, I was more like, it just turned out so much better than you could have imagined. So like that, I kind of imagine the opposite experience when you're like turning it together and it ends up being really bad. Well, there was, yeah, we had a, there was a difficult process with the music was really difficult. That was the most stressful thing. Why is that? The movie. This is more your fault than anyone's fault. Yeah. Yeah. Because Michael is very specific. Michael is so specific with music that he edits it to a really specific temp score.

1:32:15And so the, listen like hundreds of songs and then like put a temp score together and gave the composer and said, amazing composer. But I was like, this is exactly the vibe of the film. Like, and this is music that we can use or we can license this. And it is like, I'll stick close to the temp. And there was no communication after that until a week before or two weeks before this score was supposed to be delivered. And I went and saw him and it was. He recorded the whole soundtrack, but it was very different from our, you know, version. And it was just a different movie. And then we had to like, oh, fuck, like we have to kind of start again.

1:32:54I feel bad because you recorded it all organically, like all these things. He's really talented, but it was kind of in a direction that was not what the, our idea of what the film was. Yeah. So then we were trying to have fixed it in time. We couldn't in time before it was supposed to be delivered. And then we went back to mix the movie. And then I was with, you know, I was with music editor after mixing days. We'd start whole night trying to do the music and like kind of figure out a way around the music to make the music work. And then when we watched it back, it just was a different movie. And I remember Sam saying it feels like a different movie.

1:33:27It doesn't feel like I can get inside the movie now. There's something wrong here. And it's kind of that thing of like you not know understanding why it was, but I knew what I wanted. And it just wasn't coming across. So then, and that's what I broke down crying because I was like, oh, it's over. Like it's over. And that we had the tickets for the premiere just gone on sale. This is before Sundance. We did a premiere in Adelaide. The tickets going on sale. And then looking forward to it, I'm like, we have no music. I'm not going to the fucking premiere for the music shit. Yeah. You know, but then luckily Sam, our producer, fuck, we love you Sam.

1:33:59She's like, let's get a new composer and let's do this properly. We didn't get this far to fuck it up right at the end. Yeah, yeah. So we got a new composer that I worked with and we made this thing come together. Cornel. Cornel will save the film. Yeah, yeah. And then he's amazing. And like, I would give, man, I feel bad for him. I'd give fucking pages of notes and he just fucking everything. He's so amazing. He's like, OCD with certain, with music and sound. Well, I don't even understand like, like a note, I'll hear a note. I'm like, low, I, he's like, what a D or an E key. I'm like, I don't know, it just lower, do, do, do, do, do, do.

1:34:31That one, that one, that one. And then like, like, it's like a feeling of music. And as opposed to, I don't understand technically what it is. But I feel like learning to communicate was a new thing. Because even when Emma would send in stuff from Mark, we'd be like, no, like, like, his emails seemed rude when he was responding to her. And it was like, Mark, don't send messages like that. No, you would do it too. Oh, yeah, maybe. But it's just like learning to communicate in a way where like, we have not worked with this person before. We don't know how our tone is coming across. Right. And it's a collaborative effort.

1:35:04It's such an, yeah, yeah. And it's such a, yeah, it is. It's a collaborative effort. And that's why movies can kind of, I feel, not come together completely if there's all these amazing creatives, but they're going in different directions. So it's like kind of like having it all go to one direction. That's like when everything's working in sync as opposed to against each other. That's a big thing. And I think that with music going forward, I want to get music started and getting composed in pre -production. And like, psych, trying to find the sound early. As opposed to just waiting at the end, why not have it part of pre -production like everything else is?

1:35:38Makeup gets time and like, the schedule does. Why not the music as well? Like because that's such an integral part. Sound in film is massive. And people don't understand, like even it brings so much more than you would realize, you know. Yeah. And it's like finding those heads of departments like Emma and Cornel, people that are achieving things that you could never possibly achieve. And Jeff Fatt editor, we can't accomplish this by ourselves. Someone that we can really look up to and rely on. That was better than us. Yeah, it does better than us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's so fun finding those heads of departments and building teams.

1:36:09It seems like you guys are so specific with your visions. It's so important that you maintain creative control. Yeah, yeah. That's the thing. As budgets get bigger and studios get larger and then the consequences or at least the risk is higher for them. They're going to want to have more control. Yeah, and that's the thing is sometimes these movies, they want to have a creative director, but they have to protect their investment. And the way to protect your investment is to do what's worked in the past. So then it turns instead of being like a new thing, it kind of turns into what has worked in the past.

1:36:43Right. And then like, so, but you know, I feel really grateful. 824 is, we don't have to worry about that because 824 moving forward. Like they're so fucking, they're like a family like they don't feel like Hollywood execs or something like that where they're like just like thinking about money and capitalizing on money. They're all about the director and directors vision. So they will give creative cut that created final cut to us and like say they they certainly should now after that. It has no what you're doing. I mean, it's it's really good. But until the next movie comes down and it's shit.

1:37:19Yeah, they should. That does happen occasionally like M night Shyamalan. Like he has an amazing movie in six cents. And then the movies after that are just like. I like split. I like to unbreakable. I didn't see split. I was okay. Yeah, yeah. The six cents was so good. So incredible. It's so hard sometimes when your best one is your first one. Well, you got nothing out off of that. And then like there was the one with Marky Mark where the plants were killing people. Okay. You know what happens sometimes? You get. You know, the watch. The fuck is this? Yeah, is that the one? I would see that. Is that the happening?

1:38:00No, that was the other one. Which one was the happening? The one where they all killed themselves. They're trying to kill. And they walk back. They're not. They're not. They're not. That's happening when they were start killing themselves. Was that him? Are you sure about that? Am I making shit up? Am I drawing? What happened to the fuck that thing was? I don't know. I'm making movies up my head. Is the happening? Yeah. And you know what happens also? Like it's weird. You come after the movie comes out. You get the opportunities to do whatever you want next. What do you want to do next? Like we'll do it.

1:38:30Like that's the kind of position we're in now. I could see people rushing into things, like half -baked ideas or something too early because you're thinking about money and capitalizing on this moment. And then the second one being not as, you know, because the first one's like that's everything. Everything's writing on this movie. Has to be the best fucking thing ever. Right. Then when you do one, like the second one or the third one where you're, you haven't got had that time to develop the script, you know. And you're kind of rushing to the half -baked idea. Well, as you are that, we've been writing, we've been writing for three years.

1:38:59And I'm so excited to fucking start filming a year. That's what we want to do. And then we've been doing the docko as well. Which we showed you a little bit old. Yeah, you were telling me about this death wrestling. What is it called? Death mat wrestling. Death mat wrestling. So we're doing that with 824 at the moment. This is in Japan, but they do this. Where is this? Or in America as well. It's worldwide. It's like a very niche. It's pretty, I guess, controversial in a way. A lot of people don't like it. Well, they were throwing people into barboire. Show the video. Yeah, go. Do you have the video?

1:39:28I can't say that one because it's the... Part of the documentary. Think, documentary. But if you write CICNIC, what are the... Write CZW Ultraviolence at its best. That'll be... That's a good compilation there. These guys are covered with scars, like legitimate scars. Yeah, it's the most extreme form of wrestling. And it's the most dangerous. And it's the least paid and the least viewed. Because it's so graphic, it has a very niche audience. And they brutalize themselves. Yeah, legitimately. Yeah. And like, when you look at wrestling, wrestling's already like a risky sport. These guys are doing like week in week out for like a hundred bucks, getting fucking annihilated.

1:40:07And like, it's a fascinating world. So fascinating. I'm so drawn to it. And I love it so much. Even as a kid, there was always drawn to that really extreme side of wrestling. There was cactus Jack McFolly, who undertake a through off the top of the cell. And he used to wrestle in Japan in Deathmatch in a company called IWA. And that was my first time seeing a Deathmatch tournament where he was wrestling. Terry Fogs was exploding, Robes exploding, Robes exploding, they're bleeding everywhere. And it's such commitment. It's such extreme performance art. Yeah, I'm so drawn to it. Imagine you're watching John Wick and, you know, Keanu Reeves is going to get kicked downstairs.

1:40:44But you're there in person and he's doing to stunt live. And you don't know if he's going to be okay or not. Like that, that kind of energy in the room. And then also people, you have this kind of like, it's kind of like what you watch, like the UFC, like these two guys are the best of like clashing. You don't know what's going to happen. That kind of that intensity, right? That vibe in like UFC or before at fights. It's like that, but they're like taking these crazy risks where they could get paralyzed. They could cut like, you know, art at least. Yeah, one guy in the cage died and got brought back to life in a helicopter.

1:41:20Like they had he cut an artery from a light bulb. Cheers. And we did some events as well, like on the YouTube. I did, uh, because we used to do all new kids back, death, back wrestling as like teenagers. Yeah. And we did a video for our YouTube. And then, um, like, I'll ask his kids and then fans like, I'll do that again. We want to see you guys do that now. So we organized some free events where we got everyone to come for free to watch us wrestle. And they thought it was a gimmick thing and then we went fucking hard. And once this light bulb smashed off, I got slammed into it was 70 light tubes taped together.

1:41:55And I got smashed into one of them broke off wrong and went up into my ribs. And I was like, oh, I was like, and I hadn't felt anything before that because of the adrenaline. The barbed wire didn't feel thumbtax. I didn't feel I really felt that. So I was like, I was on something here. Uh, but let's continue the match. And then I was like getting bloodier and then I went laid on a table. And a guy went on the balcony, jumped onto the table. Is this from one of them? Oh, potentially this looks like. I don't know if that's, but yeah, that's if you write CZW. I tried that actually play this. Yeah, play that.

1:42:28Oh, Jesus, he missed. Yeah. That's like a wrestling. I'll show Jamie this one. I miss, I missed one. Oh, God, that guy got to get fucked up from that. Well, there's a thing about it. There's like a, there's a camaraderie about it as well because your life's in their hands, their life's in your hands. It has to be this ultimate trust. If you aren't committed together to like pull these moves off, then you're going to hurt each other bad. Well, this is not that part of the game. That's just a guy missing. Yeah, this is, so and skip to a bit further in probably like 30 seconds in. This is what I always watch, uh, to get pumped up for the next match.

1:43:03This guy's, it's all light bulbs and barbed wire. Little feathering. Yeah. Yeah, there we are. Oh, God. It's so rogue. Yeah. It's so dangerous. It's so exciting. So it's looked down upon because they're like, there's no technique. It's just guys smashing each other. Like, that's why people don't like it. But to me is technique. I feel like there is. Yeah. And especially now, like it's not just, because they're like, if you...

1:43:31Yeah. Good Lord. Yeah, it's intense. But you can't turn away, can you? And how bad do these guys get fucked up doing these things? It depends on you. It can be bad. Sometimes they're okay, then sometimes you're not. Oh, God. Yeah. It's pretty insane. Look at the audience. What's your first thought, Joe, when you see that? Totally unnecessary. But you can't turn away. I can. Do you feel like... If you're watching two wrestling matches, one standard and one's that, you'd be on that one. I feel... Probably. Yeah. Yeah, because you're probably going to want to see how bad someone gets hurt. Normal.

1:44:11Yeah. Or the car accident vibes can't look away. So that's the thing is, they're defying death. But there's also, there's like a respect for the fans as well. Like, you're putting your body on the line like that extreme. For our entertainment, when... It's like 300 people in the venue. And these guys are like risking everything to entertain. That's something that's like there's a respect that comes with that. That's in that, those environments. It's like anything you've ever experienced. I think it's like, go Ronald, WWE beat Doc. This is fucking weird. Which one's this one? It doesn't fucking weedwacker.

1:44:43No way. Oh, Jesus Christ. Okay, I get it. Go Ronald WWE. Let me just show you this thing that happened to me when we were doing ours. I was dressed as Ronald McDonald, trying to have our characters. You tune. And when I got the thing up my ribs, and then I got put on this table and the guy had jumped. And I felt all the pressure like flesh. So you're a really bad job at... Oh, no, no, no, that's a different one. Not this video. No, no, no. I write Ronald WWE beat down. Yeah. Ronald WWE. Write in some search.

1:45:21Yeah, that first one. That first one. And just got like halfway through. Yeah, a bit further. Oh. Oh, that's it. That's the... You're making us look stupid and crazy. But this one's like, when we have the stunt guys, I purposely tell not to come to this stuff because this isn't like normal stunt performing. You just get hit over the head by a neon light bulb. Yeah. So that's the one that went up into my room. Oh, God, dude. And keep going for another minute and you'll see like when they put me on the table.

1:46:02Oh, you get back to that one bird, yeah, that's the jump there. And I just felt all the fucking blood. I just blurred it out of the side of my back. So he jumped off of there, onto you? Yeah. Oh, my God, dude, you get paralyzed from something like that. I don't know what it is that draws us to it, but we're sort of doing the documentary to explore the psychology behind the needs to do it or why they do it and talking to the rest of it and finding out, you know, what's going on with them and why they're drawn to it. And why we were drawn to it. It's interesting to me because I know it's disgusting.

1:46:40I know it's weird. And I want to figure out why the psychology behind it. Yeah, why are people would do it? Why do you think people would do it, Joe? Because they're dumb. Or? Dumb. Or D -pa. Or dumb. You don't think it's a... We're going to figure out, I don't think it's all just dumb. There's no... What else is it? It's a way to feel present, I feel. Do you think there's a smarter way to do that? There probably is, but there's...

1:47:15Going back to normal life, you couldn't... Really? I bet you could. The closer you get to death, the more alive you feel, Joe. Oh, boy. Yeah. We're going to do it right now, death match. Well, it's the same thing. I guess it's different with martial arts. People look at it, or I like base value, or they're just cock -firing, or they're just... People are just going to... But it's so much deeper than that. Martial arts and things like that. Sure. People would see... A UFC like they see a street fire. It's like it's not that. I remember... I remember... I could watch Death Matte dressing as a kid, and always loved it.

1:47:50And then I would shake when watching UFC. I would physically shake. I couldn't believe that they're actually trying to hurt each other. I was like a young kid. You've seen the freak me out. I don't want to play UFC one, the game on Xbox. I was fucking shaking. Right, when they were hitting a thing. Yeah, some of you are fighting, and that really one -on -one violence. I found that so much... You're not pussy. So, no, maybe that's where we get into it. So you like this performative violence. Yes, performative violence. Yeah, that was something about... Yeah, because it is actual violence. It's actually cutting and bleeding, but there's something about it being agreed upon.

1:48:23Yeah. And it's kind of like... Yeah, like UFC is like... Use of the best of the world, and let's see, is better. You're not trying to get hurt. Whereas this is like... How are we... It's safely doing it. No, the wrestling is like, how do we create this spectacle... As safely as possible in that environment. And be okay, I guess, in terms of... Well, we're doing a bad way verbalizing it. The documentary will do it better. We're trying to find out these questions, like what draws people to it. And what is the other film that you're writing? There's a whole bunch of stuff. We're writing some three films right now, and it's just in constant circulation.

1:48:56When we hit like a roadblocker one, it'll sort of jump onto the next one. So we're developing the talk to E -SQL, and we've got another project of A24. We're talking about Street Fighter right now as well. With Capcon and Legendary. And then, yeah, so it's just sort of developing a bunch of stuff and working on a bunch of stuff. It's finding time, like delegating times, the thing now. I guess with the ADHD, it's like, you're like, you're like, this now, and then you start going to round holes of each script. And then I can't help but explore some avenues. There was a script that was sort of due two months ago.

1:49:29And I was like, it's going to be done. And then I was like, what if we change this ending a little bit? By changing the ending, we change the midpoint. By changing the midpoint, we've changed the start. And you're basically rewriting the entire thing. But I need to follow that thread through and see if that's a more exciting way to tell the story. And yeah, so we're a little behind them things. But we're getting there. We're trying to figure out, we want to shoot early next year. And I need to figure out sleep as well, a big sleep issue as well. I've had it my whole life, like not being able to fall asleep.

1:50:01And then when I fall asleep, I wake up every 90 minutes or something like that. What's your diagnosis? It's different people that say different things. I did sleep studies overnight, then a full 24 -hour day one. They said, idiopathic hypersomnia, someone said, naiklepsy. But it's more, it's falling, like my mind, like I guess, and I've tried meditating and looking at bloods and like exercise, like it's falling asleep, like meditating before sleep, trying everything to try and what it is it. But I can't fall asleep. And then when I do finally fall asleep, you just want to exhaust it. I stayed up like two, three days straight.

1:50:38I still wake up after 90 minutes. So is it just your mind is racing all the time? And your mind wakes you up? Maybe. But it seems you guys are very hyper. You got a lot going on in your heads. Yeah, and I guess that's a thing like that's... Well, yeah, my sleeping padded is just... Because you're the same, but you don't have like, I have. Yeah, but I sleep about, it's just weird. Like, I run off -naps. I'll sleep for 12 hours, and I'm up now for four hours. I'm like, oh, I'm tired of having one hour, then I'm like, oh, I'm up for 12 hours. All right, I'll sleep for three hours. It's just sort of, there's no set time to go to sleeping wake -up.

1:51:10It's sort of just... Maybe it's a genetic thing with you guys. Yeah, I'm asking. A lot of things are parents like that. Yeah, I don't know. It's a... So you're twins. Yeah. And maybe it is just genetic with you. Like, whatever that gene is, you both got it. But how come he's dumber than me? Ha -ha -ha -ha. Come on now. Yeah, I don't know. Man, come on, man. You've been births me in Philadelphia, man. I don't know what it is. But yeah. But it's the energy that you guys have that leads you to be so productive, too, I'd imagine. Yeah, it is. It's sort of manic energy that you have. That's right. Yeah, I know what I...

1:51:44It's literally... If I could just switch it off at the end of the day, it would be awesome. Right, but then you wouldn't have it on all the time. I'd think... Exactly. It's a medic... You have to get... Yeah, I've heard of Xyram. Xyram, what is that? That's a medication for narcolepsy that knocks you out. It's the only medication that apparently puts you through the stages of sleep. Right, but it's a medication, so it knocks you out. But it has all these side effects. It's GHB, it's like people use it for... Oh, yeah. It's like... It's a party drug. So what is the side effects? Well, the first page says, Soul Side Attempts.

1:52:20And then also the sleep doctor I was speaking to is like, there's two... It's like people are debating that actually don't know whether it's people that are in bad places. Don't have the energy to take their own lives. But being on Xyram gives you the energy to do it. Or is the Xyram changing your mind to think more like that, more radical or something like that? How long are you taking Xyram? I'm scared to take it. I don't want to be addicted to a drug. I don't want to be relying on that. Just deal with whatever sleep you get. Yeah. Yeah. It's obviously working. As I'm getting older though now, I feel like it weighs on you a lot more.

1:53:04I feel like if I'm engaged, I can go for days. But if I'm not, I'll get tired, but I can't sleep, but I'll be like... Do you ever do hard exercise before you go to bed? Does that help? I've never tried going all right before, but I've done days where I was like, I could smack it, smash go to the gym and do boxing, go to the spa, and do full day of exercise, like exhaust myself. But then, and I will help me sometimes initially fall asleep, but then 90 minutes. Still. Same thing. How many hours are you getting at night? Seven, eight hours. Oh, you are. And you go all the way through? Yeah. How does that fucking...

1:53:36That's not even possible. What? Sometimes I drink too much water before I go to bed. I have to pee in the middle of the night, but then I go to bed to sleep. I don't have a problem sleeping. But like, staying awake, are you always taking... Do you... do you drink drinks every day? I mean, I'm a drink water too. Yeah, yeah. A drink coffee a lot. It's like, even tea will fuck me up. If I have an English breakfast tea, that'll keep me up all night. So sensitive. Extremely sensitive to caffeine. Yeah. But you lied to me, it doesn't really... Yeah, yeah, yeah. We are different. Have you ever tried what happens when you don't drink energy drinks?

1:54:07Is that help? No. No. Energy drinks helps me when I get like a low in the day or whatever. Mm -hmm. If I'm bored. But when I go... I did full health streak, you know, like when I had like a diet that I was sticking to and like a time. Getting up at the same time every, you know, morning, going to get the sun in the morning. And then doing all that, whatever, you know, like I did that. And then it's still... Still. The frustrating thing is when you do go to it, but it's the waking up and you're like, fuck. Like a man. I was like, I got to sleep and then you just wake up 90 minutes. And it's like...

1:54:43I used to think it was a good thing when I was a kid because I'd be like, oh, I still have six hours before I get up for school and I go to bed and I wake up again. I go, oh, I've still got three hours. I was like, I felt like I was getting more sleep because you know when you wake up and you're like, oh, I've got to get up now. Right. It was like waking up and be like, oh, I don't have to get up yet. Right. But it was like, but we're in psychological, you're rambling right now. Yeah, I rambling. Fuck you. Yeah. But yeah, I think that... Let me just complete side note. There's a UFC fighter you want to see comes the UFC.

1:55:11Heavyweight. Burrando, the Balkan bear. He right now, he's training with Izzy. He trains with Izzy. This guy, it's going to be a problem with the heavyweight division. Is he signed for the UFC? No, yet. But he'll be there inside a couple of years. Yeah. I promise. You heard it here first. Is he your friend? Yeah, he's a friend. Six foot six. Fucking machine. And he doesn't fight like a heavyweight. He's far sick. Is there a video on? Maybe. He could probably fight. He does a lot of kickboxing, doesn't he? He trained. He grew up. Is she training MMA now to get ready for the UFC? Is there a dude?

1:55:43Yeah. The Balkan bear. The Balkan bear, baby. Let's go. Let's see if there's any highlights of them. I remember we watched him do a tournament where he did three matches in one night. Yeah, he fought three times in one night. Like one of those tournament things. And he won like 20 grand.

1:56:04Oh, that says I actually used to be a video call.

1:56:10Surely this sum.

1:56:16Oh, no, he's on a count. I think he was too much massive. Oh, he got dropped. No, no, no, he didn't. No, no, no, he's on drop. I think he's fighting this jerk again, too. Holy crap. Dude, and Brad is massive. That guy's fucking huge and wow.

1:56:42Yeah, that guy has a lot better than him. That's crazy. But I have your weight. Isn't there no weight in the 20? It depends on the organization. The UFC doesn't have a weight limit at super heavyweight, but they do it heavyweight. But they've never had a super heavyweight fight. Oh, wow. Yeah, the UFC heavyweight weight limit is 265. Oh, I didn't know that was okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, he's been training over there with him in New Zealand. Yeah, we're going to use skills. You see him. You see him. Are you a nursing brand right now? Yeah, hook not. I love you. I'm going to highlight real.

1:57:20He wins this fight, I think. Yeah, he does. The end it looked like it. Yeah. The dude's getting tired. Big fat dude's probably sharp. Five answers. Still guys around. Oh.

1:57:38So is the decision. Man, I get so pumped when you're watching friends fight that, like you know what I mean. There's nothing like it. I saw a thing with Izzy when Volk defended his title fight before the last one. And he's in a crowd. I go crazy. And the comments are like, give him shit. I was like, dude, when you're watching, we like when we watch friends fight, you're like, fucking yeah, come on. Fucking yeah, I give it. And then they gave that energy to the world. And like, it's like a fucking, oh man, when your friends fight, he's the fuck craziest feeling in the world. She wants to win so bad in that environment, you know.

1:58:13How are you connected to the martial arts world? Are you you were saying that you trained? Yeah. Physical stuff has always been like, you know, ever since little kid, like I love doing physical like the stunts and whatever as kids. Then I did a bit of more tight just training. And then we were part of the reason why Logan Paul fought KSI. Because we were friends with both of them. We're good friends with both of them. Logan wasn't going to fight KSI. And then Danny went over and convinced him to he's like, dude, you have to. It's going to be the biggest thing because KSI called him out. Logan didn't want to do it.

1:58:49It's like a different audience says there's no fucking reason to do that. And Danny where they're like, keep hassling him. And he's like, all right. And then he all agreed to fight him. So I fought on the undercard of that event. And I did. I'm undefeated, guys, one and a half. And also that we even sponsor a fighter named Tim Rogers, who's champion right now in South Australia. Which I think he could maybe crack into the UFC as well. So I just, I'm just a bit of a wager. It's just like I think that we love as well. I live in an aerial, Hawani every day. The fight news, everything. I love it. I like obsessed with it.

1:59:24And then so the fight, I remember my auntie saying, you're too little to fight. And I was like, just wait classes in the fight thing. She's like, no, when I was saying I was going to fight on the undercard. So I told the people, I want the tallest person. So my auntie that I could fight. So my opponent was six foot three. And then the fight night. God bless you, Skas. He wasn't very good. But the training camp where I had to fucking get my fucking head kicked in by six foot three, guys. Every fucking twice a week. That was like a hell like a diet. And I went to. I did, yeah, five months training at T .J.

2:00:02Smith. Oh, no, don't watch her. No, I'm bad. I finally got a spower. You're hitting a number of times. See? No, you're not pressing it over this pool. No, no, no, no, no. Hey, look, we're at the first of the beginning. Yeah, so you're embarrassing. But leading up to that was like just getting smashed by six foot three, guys. And I remember once the first guys, the first six foot do that I spied. There's a hundred kilos. And I remember my trainer Chris being like, all right, you're going to do five, three minute rounds. All right. And then behind him, I just saw this guy just hitting the heavy bag.

2:00:42And then Chris like, yeah, just going to make sure you see that. And then like the guy walked off and I just see this fucking dent in the middle of the heavy bag. And then I went there and he just fucked me up like three standing eight counts. Then the second time we spot up, I spotted three times. So the second time was one standing eight count. Why are you finding 220 pound guys? I don't know. I guess that was all the bodies that we could find. It was like different. How much do you weigh? 75 kilos. What is that? 170? I don't know. 2 .2 times 75 by 160. And I think he was 10 kilos heavier than me on the fight night.

2:01:18That guy. It was just like, I was fighting with different kind of six. One of the couple of them was the 100 kilo plus dudes. What's on the back track? Balkan Bear won that fight, right? Yes. Yes, okay, good. It was just, yeah. 152 they had you at. 152 for the fight and he was 174. I don't know that pal. I don't know. I don't know. Look, he's not a good fighter. I was not a good fighter. It's like something that I've. But you just did it for the fun. Yeah, and then like, I wanted that feeling of like going out to a fight. Like, I'll, how, every time I watched it, I got envious. Like, people coming out.

2:01:53Like, I want to know what that feels like to be like, we're going to go and like, put it all in the line and like a fight. That's what I wanted to experience. That rush. I love a cow. I don't look at me. I love that physical rush. I think that's the same thing with the deathmatch wrestling. It's like, doing something risky, you know, something that could go wrong or could go very right is very engaging. And I feel bad like when we're doing the movie and stuff, which is a lot of fun, but I'm like, I want to jump off something now. I want to get, I need to do something physical and I need to, I don't know, something that's in me.

2:02:24I like addicted to it. I love it. That stuff. By the fighting stuff, my ego, I couldn't take it if I lost. So I first of all like maybe. And Danny said, he's like, when you get knocked out, I'm going to replay every frame over and over again. He was like tormenting me that as a joke, like you're mucking around with him, but seriously, I think I was like, I was trained in cyclist for a month before the fight. And then I was like, I didn't realize about how the climate check like your cardio just goes. Like I was skipped for one round. I was like, and I just couldn't, I was like, man, am I just shitting out?

2:02:59Suddenly, I'm overseas and I was in these fucking, we were in these like underground, like concrete, concrete gyms with no ventilation. And then we, I'd get my ass kicked and they could, all right, go out and get some air, man, and I'll go out and it's fucking worse outside than it is in the gym. You know, I couldn't breathe. Couldn't breathe air. I said Mark was a bad fighter. Mark would choke me out once. He broke down my door. Oh, this guy. But is that, well, that's such an achievement, like choking me out. Anyone could choke you out. What are you talking about? I'm just saying that, yeah. You're a good fighter, Michael.

2:03:30You should have another fight. If they do it. He wants you to get fucked up. Yeah, you should do it. If it's a fucking bear. If Miss Fit does an event, the, you should want it. If they do you want an Australian, I'll do it again. I want to do one more. Do you hate the influx of boxing stuff? No. I don't hate it. Why don't you have, why haven't you had Logan Paul on your podcast? No. No, he's a, yeah. That was a shot. And he's looking at you like, stop fucking asking these questions. There was, there was a moment in that fight that I got a little bit like a motion or, sorry, this is, I'm, so I'm jumping around.

2:04:01That UFC Volcanoeski's speech after the fight where he was saying that he felt that down when he wasn't training or he didn't have that purpose. Yeah. Yeah. And then that made him rush into that fight. I was about, yeah, getting really emotionally, seeing someone open up like that and be vulnerable like that. That's a, that was a weird one. When, whenever someone takes a late minute fight like that, last minute, 10 day fight, it's just, I know that people want to do it, but it's not the right thing to do at a championship level. You know, especially if you look like, without the Volcanoeski, he got KO'd in the first round.

2:04:35And the first fight was so competitive. And you got a wonder like, would he have gotten KO'd if he had a full camp? Like, would the result have been different? Would he have prepared differently? 100 % right? More faith in his cardio. Same thing with Kamaru Usman in Hamza Chimayev. Same thing. Like you didn't trust his cardio. He was dealing damage, right? He was kind of getting a flow on it. I feel bad for Volcanoeski because he did block the kick, but it was like a little too low. Well, he was getting kicked in the body a bunch of times. I think he thought it was coming to the body and he kind of went like this.

2:05:06And he got kicked in the head. Yeah. But that's why I felt like it was like, it just went above his guard. And that was perfect. I mean, it was a perfect setup. It threw a bunch of left kicks to the body and then through that one to the head, it was perfect. Yeah. I hope he could bounce back after that. Sure. He could bounce back. I liked that he was open about that stuff and vulnerable about that stuff because it speaks to so many people. Oh, yeah. Hearing that from him is so meaningful and impactful. Yeah. It's true. It shows his character too, the way he accepted the loss. Yeah. It's such a...

2:05:37Yeah, I can't wait to see him get back in, but sometimes you get knocked out like that. You really should take a bunch of time off. All right. So he got really cracked. I mean, if you watched the head kick, it was like head kick right to the temple. Right to the side of the head. So it's a bad place to get hit. You got hit really hard. Fuck you. I want to wait a little time after that. Yeah. There's a thing also when we're talking about mental perception about if that happens, are you going in kind of like, with that in the back of your mind now, you're fine as free. It could happen, sure. I mean, that was the first time it happened during the UFC.

2:06:08He only got... It had stopped, been stopped once in his career ever and that was at Walter Waite. So he was fighting someone who was 170 pounds. And that was quite a long time ago, like early early in his career. And he's been completely undefeated in the UFC. And then there was the Makachet fight. So he loses that decision, very close decision. So he looks like a world beater. And then he takes this fight with very short notice and not really prepared and gets knocked out. So it's one of those things that's like, there's a very high risk. And the reward, obviously, is very high as well. If he beats Makachet, it becomes a two division champion.

2:06:41But you really can't fight a guy like that without really going through a camp. You can, you might get lucky, it might work out your way, but it might not. Is it... It's going to take that... It's going to be surely, if you guys don't have a run, you get a crack at... Boxers would never do that. That's what's interesting. Like if Terrence Crawford was supposed to fight Aerospace and Aerospace got injured ten days out, they would just cancel a fight. Yeah. They would never have a completely different opponent step in with no camp on ten days known as. It's very unique to the UFC and I don't know if I'm a fan of it.

2:07:13Oh, really? Don't like the loss of it. Well, I don't know. I mean, I love the fact that people take a chance, but I don't like it in terms of someone... I want someone to be fully prepared. That's what I really like. I like when someone goes through a full camp, fully prepared, absolutely ready for this one opponent. Because you're dealing with this insanely high risk sport. That's very difficult to do. And I just don't feel like with proper, proper... You can... You know, he's probably at 65 % of what is potential. Yeah, yeah. And he feels like, because he's such a champion, he feels like that's enough.

2:07:45But I guess in service of the people that have bought the tickets and done it, they're trying to not let down the fanbase. Yeah, but this guy's got a lineage. She's got a legacy to work with, worry about. I mean, it's a full career. And one loss like that can define you forever, because it can change the course of your career. Especially if it's a really bad knockout. Like if you get completely knocked on conscious, go to the hospital, neck brace, the whole thing, wheeled on a stretcher. That can define your entire career. It can change the course of your career. Yeah. And that... Sorry, just...

2:08:15I've got to say, this is so surreal that we're talking about 500. Yeah. But like that... Yeah, I guess everyone's once that kind of Michael Biz being Luke Rockhold 2 more than us. Yeah, in that situation it worked out great. Yeah, it's probably the dice. Yeah, he rolled the dice, but Michael Biz being is a crazy dude. And that's a guy who fought 10 people with one eye. Well, yeah, I like that reveal figure. Yeah, that's crazy. He just wild. Yeah. How I'm quoted, I doubt it's one eye. And he's like a bit off. Your death perception, death perception gets very skewed. Yeah. Don't exactly know where things are.

2:08:51Yeah, can you do things like VR and stuff with one eye? I'm sure you'd probably good. Because like if it's about like, you know, like 3D glasses and people would... Right. You wouldn't get that thing. I think VR is different. It's like from the 3D glasses. Yeah. And that thing, when we were just talking about it before, how crazy is AI going to take over? It is, I guess, everything. And you can't not fighting. Yeah, it depends on how convenient it is to use. Like if it gets to glasses, just regular glasses, yeah. Yeah. It's going to be... I mean, it's going to get better and better and smaller and smaller.

2:09:25And with battery technology and all sorts of other things that are going to be, you know, all new innovations. Who knows? But I don't know the stupid thing. Speaking of filming, some people that they're shooting like mental orient on just like screens, right? Yeah. You don't even need to go to locations. You get to, they could just be at any place they want on the screens. And it will have real... The light will be identical to what it would be out there. And then you don't have to worry about, you know, taking unit out on helicopters to these places, you know, like, you know, lost the TV show, they're fucking flat to fly the whole crew over there, like, and shoot, like, with the nature and the sound and all that stuff.

2:10:03But there's still certain things you can't capture, like, come on, on location so much cool. Yeah, but I guess it kind of feels like, yeah, it's the same as all, like, I like practical. But it kind of feels like... Yeah, but I'm down for those screens of sci -fi movies, as opposed to trying to just say, oh, we'll do that on an island instead of going to an island. Just go to the island. Yeah, but if you can afford it. Why? But I think it's... But I'm just trying to think, like, because I like practical as well. But if, you know, the CGI and stuff gets to a point where you literally can't tell the difference between the model car and, you know, a real car, then it's like, it's kind of like a reminder of when I was doing Disney videos, movies back in the day, where they would draw every single frame.

2:10:40And then when that CGI came in, like, toys, sorry, I think toys were the first film to do it, we're like, we don't need to do that anymore. We can do it, like, when I was in the computer. You read the film. Yeah. We'd all throw a computer and then, like, the traditionalist stuff. No, what the fuck? You're like moving it. Like, this is a work of art to do each frame. But it's kind of like... It kind of feels like that now, where it's like... No, but you got to embrace it, I feel like it's different because AI is... If you look at the artist's AI, it's taking... Oh, yeah, I don't know. Actually, it's a fucking tricky conversation.

2:11:08That was part of the writers' strike. I was trying to figure out artificial intelligence. AI writing. AI writing and incorporating into film writing and screenwriting. That's crazy. That's even a... That's horrifying. It's horrifying. But, yeah. It's unavoidable at this point. Yeah. I feel like story's coming from the heart. It's gonna always be better than something that's... I think it'd be very difficult to write a movie like, talk to me, and do it through AI. Very difficult. Yeah. There's something about human creativity, at least, at this point. It's very unique. Yeah, because it's drawing from personal experiences.

2:11:39It's drawing from everyone's experiences. It's like, it's a personal subject. It's impossible to replicate it because it hasn't happened to someone else. It's their own personal experience. Yeah. It could do things based on things that happen in the past. But this isn't like that person's experience, I guess. It's not an expression of any single person. So it can't be unique art. Well, listen, guys. Whatever you're doing, you're doing awesome shit. I mean, that movie was amazing. And whatever you're doing next, I'm gonna be watching. Because I think you guys are very uniquely talented and you're full of energy.

2:12:11And it was a lot of fun. A lot of fun driving us. It was very... Yeah. Yeah, it was. It's an honor. Thank you so much. My pleasure. The honor was mine. Tell everybody how they can access your social media, where you guys are at, how they can find you. Oh, it just watched Talk to Me. Watch Talk to Me. Show me what's talking to me. Oh, it's stream it. It's awesome. For Halloween. Yes. Yeah, it's a good Halloween movie for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Halloween. Stream Talk to Me. Thank you. Listen, you guys nailed it. You should be proud of it. And congratulations. Thank you again. Thanks for being here.

2:12:38All right. Bye everybody.

2:12:54I'm going to be a good friend. I'm going to be a good friend.