#2056 - David Blaine

26:27One. A .G. One. It's very easy, because it's like, it's a no -brainer. You sell little travel packs, open up a bottle of water, pour it in the bottle of water, shake it up, drink it. And it's all natural. All natural. Yeah. It's all plant -based stuff. Yeah, that I'm looking to. It's great. And then, you know, you really should supplement with vitamin D. You know, vitamin D and K2, they work well together, but all that stuff is one of the things that people are very deficient in. Yeah. Vitamin D in particular. That's a big one. And particularly in cold climates, when people don't go outside very much, you know, get exposure to sun.

27:00The best way to get vitamin D is for the sun. Naturally, yeah. Yeah, that's the best way. But most people do not get enough. Yeah. It makes sense. Yeah. We're in the oral, they're working. Yeah. But when you think about, like, what did human beings eat to thrive? Well, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the prized food was meat. If they could kill a deer, if they could kill, you know, something that was nutrient dense, that had fat on it, a pig, like, that's what they, they, they treasured the most, because that's what they would give them the most nutrients. You would also assume they would have like coconuts, banana, fruit.

27:35Sure, fruits, fruits, good. So we're easy to... Especially, I mean, again, fruits that weren't fucked with. But that's one of the things that we've done with wheat. You know, if you get wheat, everybody talks about this. If you get wheat in Europe, you're getting this heirloom wheat. You're getting wheat that is really what it was originally. When they took wheat and changed it in America, what they've done is to hide those. They destroyed it. Much more complex gluten and it just gives you more inflammation. And it's hard digested. Yep. And you don't gain weight from those. I know. On modified seeds of 500 years ago.

28:11I know. You go to Europe and you eat their food. You look at them. They're not fat. No. It's crazy. Look at France. People eating bread in France. They eat bread every day. They're not fat. No. In America, we're all balloons. Yeah. Yeah, it's just in making things better to sell. Because the higher yield and you know, you can make more profit. You have poison ourselves. Yeah. Essentially. You know. Yeah. It's fucked. But at least we know it. So if you do seek out the information, there's plenty of doctors that could explain these things to you and just seek out organic foods and just eat real foods.

28:51Eat real foods. And you'll be far better off. You even sleep better. I don't snore. I don't need as much sleep. Sure. It's so crazy, but a difference it makes. It does. It makes a giant difference. And it's so hard to get people to deviate. Because once you get accustomed to eating certain kinds of food and you start craving those kinds of food. Yeah, it just triggers your... It's so difficult to get off that path. Yeah. So we get you shoulder -sorted out. I'd like to see what your MRI said though, too. I'll show you the doctors. I'll show you the doctors. I want to see that, too. I have all the MRIs.

29:36So I was doing MRIs before every jump and after every jump just to make sure the blood vessels around the heart, you know, things weren't shifting. Because if we noticed something small, then we would stop because that way the blood, something connected to the heart wouldn't become problematic. Yeah. I feel like I got lucky on that. You probably definitely did because if it hit your neck and had the same sort of impact with what it did to your shoulder, imagine something that can blow out your shoulder like that. What it could do to your spinal cord. Yep. You know? Yeah. Very dangerous. Do you ever think you're going to stop doing this kind of crazy shit?

30:12I think so. Really? Yeah. I think I'll eventually just move towards magic. Oh, you're really good at magic, too. That's the two confusing to me. Your car tricks are fucking bizarre. Like, when you, you did a bunch of car tricks for us off air. You did them for my kids. You did them for the security guys at the old studio in LA. And I mean, Jamie is like really good at watching that kind of stuff. I mean, I've been watching him since I was younger. But Jamie was watching this shit. Jamie was fucking staring at you like a horror figure. I mean, I know it's magic, but like there's also. That was strict.

30:47He knows how to do it. Yeah, but I always had to do it. But after it was done, Jamie was like, fuck, I have no fucking idea. I tried. I thought I knew what was going to happen. Yeah. And I didn't. Yeah. Or you're with it. You're obviously that good. He couldn't wait, though. He's like, I'm going to watch everything. I'm going to watch him when I figure it out. He couldn't figure out Jack's shit. It's, um, yeah, that alone. But I mean, you're kind of the only magician who also does things that aren't necessarily magic, but they are extraordinary feats of control of your body and just dangerous stunts.

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33:41Go to robinhood .com -boost over 8x the National Average Saving Account Interest Rate Claim. It's based on data from the FDIC as of November 18th, 2024. Robin Hood Financial LLC, member SIPC Gold Membership is offered by Robin Hood Gold LLC. I think part of the excitement for me is just learning something that's unique, that's not really done in the magic world, but then just the actual training and learning a new skill. It's like a continual search to try to figure out new things. That's what keeps me excited in a lot of ways. I think it's something different because I think most people that are magicians, they're a card trick everybody can learn.

34:34But when you go and try to figure out one of those things that are insane to learn or you're inspired by something else and it leads to the trick itself, that's exciting for me. So when I went to Africa to learn how to swallow a gallon of water and then spout it out, I didn't know it would lead to being able to hold frogs in my stomach and produce them at any time, but it ended up leading to that. So it became a magic trick, but it started as some insane skill that I saw somebody doing I was obsessed with. When you swallow a gallon of water, are you stretching your stomach out as it was happening?

35:10It's awful. But is it like do you gain greater capacity because of that? No. No. Every night in my show I have to put a gallon of water inside and it's horrible. What does it feel like? Oh, awful. Like pregnancy maybe? I don't know. I can't answer it. Maybe. About sure. Something so you feel your organ stretching, do you feel like everything getting pushed aside to make room for the water? I mean, a gallon of water is a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. Was it way? I think like 8 .43 pounds or something like that. Yeah. So just imagine 8 pounds of food. It might be 8 .3, 4 .4. Just 8 pounds of food in your body isn't saying.

35:47Yeah. No, it's a lot. Sitting down in the air. Sitting down in the air. And it's all solid. It's water. So it's just like a big sun. Just a mass in the air. And then I have to go do the show. Oh, God. So you have to have it in your body while you're doing it. So you have to ignore this awful feeling while you're doing your show. And act normal. Whoa. And then spit it all out. How do you make sure you're not peeing it all out? Like how do you? I know the time on that. Oh. So I practice the window of time of time. What's the window of time? Well, it starts, it obviously starts to move in like 15 minutes.

36:20But I'm able to kind of control it for the length of the show. Pretty much. Are you contracting your body? Are you doing something physically? Well, then I spout it out to put out the fire. Right. So it's a break. And then I reload it. So secretly.

36:40So when you spout it out to put out the fire, people are like, what the fuck? Like where do you get all this water? Well, they seem me drinking it also. Right. But still. It's pretty insane. It's insane. It's insane. It's a show that, you know, my show is a show that you can only do like once or twice a month. You can't do it. Right. If I did a card trick show, I could do it every night. Right? It'd be like very good for business. Yeah. But I like this show because it's an impossible show. It's like what did I have to like get into the mindset and be like, oh, fuck. It comes with a mothered by you.

37:14So when you put together a show like this, like when you're sitting down the planning stages and you're like, okay, got a big show coming up in Vegas. What am I going to do? How much time is involved in the creation of something like years? Years. Yeah. Wow. Years and years. Wow. I mean, it took me 20 years to even do my show. 20 years. Almost. That's insane. Because I wanted something that was different and, you know, something that I felt like would represent what I love and what interests me. So I worked on all these crazy things and it took so long to figure them out and then had to apply magic to them.

37:55Mm -hmm. They had to make the trick part. And then the trick part always makes the other thing seem like that's a trick. So when I'm holding my breath, everybody thinks like I have tubes or something. Right. Right. What did you do when you held your breath? Like how long did you hold it for? It was something insane. Like, do I want to say like my actual 13 minutes or something like that? I did 17 or 14 or an over, but my actual record with doctors and pulmonary experts on that was 20 minutes and two seconds, breathing pure O2. And my heart rate dropped to eight beats per minute. So they pulled me up because they thought I was going to go into cardiac arrest.

38:31And I actually, that one felt pretty good. But now I think the record is like 2403. Wow. Yeah. And what do you, you're breathing pure oxygen? Yeah. For you to do it. Yeah. Without the pure too, I was up to like 747. What's still insane? I know free diaries can do stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. But they're also the ones that are really good are really thin, really tall. They have a total lung capacity. It's much greater than mine. Mine is less than average. So your lung capacity is less than average? Yeah. 80 % of the average person, my height and size. Why is that? I don't know. That doesn't even make sense if you can hold your breath out long.

39:10Let's see. Is 80 % of the... Hmm. That's crazy. But I think that's where a lot of it has to do with accepting the pain, like mind over matter. So generally like taller, longer people, longer lungs, bigger chest cavity, it makes sense. Yeah. There was a dude who was an MMA fighter named Egan Inuay and I know he did something insane. He was a free diver. He lived in Hawaii and I think he was up to like 7 plus minutes. And that's also physical, right? Because you're holding your breath and then you're diving into the water and moving your body. So that makes it much harder. Oxygen. It's not just sitting there.

39:49Yeah. Yeah. When I was doing it, I was just... And even your brain functioning, you want to shut everything down because your brain uses a lot of oxygen as well. Ooh. So the more that you can just shut everything down, the more efficient you are. And when you're doing that, like how are you getting your heart rate to 8 beats a minute? I didn't intentionally do that. It just happened. I think the body does whatever it needs to do to make sure you survive. Right. So your body is recognizing like this motherfucker isn't breathing. Yeah. Let's just slow it down and like it's kind of like creeping towards the gas station when you're on E.

40:23Yeah. You know, like you're going 5 miles an hour because you're not going to make it otherwise. Wow. What do you think is the most difficult of all these things you've ever done?

40:40Um... Maybe the ice. Mm -hmm. Just on the mind. Yeah. That one was the worst one. I would never do that again. How long did it take your brain to recover from that? The brain recovers pretty fast. I think after one night's sleep, I was okay. Really? The brain. Yeah. So no more hallucinations. Yeah, but also I was... Yeah, it was bad. I would worry about something like that that I would open up a door that I could never close. Yeah, that would be horrible. Is that really, you know, in a horror movie that would happen? That's why I don't mess with sleep deprivation. I tried to work with that in the world.

41:21Yeah, it's scary. Yeah. I think it's a very effective form of torture. I think in North Korea they did that to the Americans extreme sleep deprivation. I think that tweaked them the worst. Oh, I'm sure we do it too. Guantanamo Bay. I mean, it's deprivation's horrific. Yeah. Isn't it crazy? It's horrible. Because that's one you wouldn't even think of as torture. And when you think of people think of as torture, the thing of pain. You know, they don't think of just like making someone stay awake. But that's... Isn't that Chinese water torture? Is it just drip water in your face? I don't think that one's so bad.

41:55Really? I don't think so. I heard it's pretty bad. I don't think... And it just nuts because you're just the drip and like it being irregular intervals. It's like the microstleep. I don't know. I don't think so. Maybe you should try that one. Do you want to see this trick? I would love to see this trick. What do you got? Well, it's a simple one. But it's simple one. Okay. So I just use some thread. But I might need your help. Okay. Do you want to come closer? I'll come over there. Yeah. I can move over. Or you can come here. I'll come over there. Should I slide to the left or something?

42:43So first I'll show you the trick version. Oh, okay. We can take this off. Yeah. So first I'll show you the trick version of it. Okay. Which is just like this. For the people just listening at home. He folded over a little loop in a piece of thread. Yeah. And he's putting it in his mouth and swallowing it.

43:12He's chewing on the thread. Now he's drinking water. Yeah. I think it's here. Wait. Hold on. So this is a trick version. You see, you get, um, you see, you can pull. I don't know if you can see. Can you, do you want to just pull it? Pull the thread. You have a thread that you can start with. Pull it in your mouth. Uh -huh. So that's the trick version. That's a thread that he just had embedded in his skin. But hold on. Here's the different version.

43:51Actually, I feel, I'm starting. I'm starting to do it this way. So you can see what's actually happening.

44:14It'll be grab here. The one in your chin. Okay. So now he's going to thread coming out from under his chin. And then pull it up a little. Okay.

44:26Pull it down. It's through his mouth and through the bottom of his mouth and out his chin. And pull. Want to pull it out? Yeah. Okay. So that's something that I learned in India. So you just essentially use a needle and shove it through the bottom of your jaw. And people think it's coming out of your mouth. Yeah. It's pretty good though. It is pretty good. I'm going to pull the other side. Right.

45:05So there's a book called Swami Mantra. How are you getting it into your chest? Well, first I'll tell you there's a book called Swami Mantra, which is a collection of pamphlets, of secrets of what the fikirs are doing in India. So there was a trick that I saw a magician do when I was a kid. And he ate a thread and he pulled it out of his stomach. And I was with a bunch of amazing magicians and we were all blown away and in shock. But I cornered the guy and convinced him to teach me the secret. So then I started playing with it. And then just now when I was in India meeting street magicians and finding all these performers, I went to a festival and they do all these extreme things I have never seen before.

45:51Like they pushed the ice picks, you were a type thing through their neck, and so I suddenly had an idea and I was like, wait, maybe there's a way. And then it becomes a magic trick. But you're seeing the early phase of it. Okay. Yeah. Sometimes I get nervous that like, you know, obviously anything could go wrong. You could, you know, switch, quit and blood. Like it happened last time. Yeah. Well, last time I see there was going to be no blood. Thank you. Yeah. When last time we poked the ice pick through your arm. We had a nerve, right? We had to back it out. Oh, yeah. It was not good. You had it bubbled up?

46:39Yeah. Yeah. Not good. Yeah. I was not, that's not what I wanted to happen. I was traumatized afterwards. I was like, oh, fuck. I just picked, so is that just a luck thing? Like you miss or you just don't know exactly where to push it through? No. What happened was normally, I think I go in from this side and out, but because you were sitting here and I wanted you to push it, I think we went in the opposite direction. Oh. And I think it, that's what went wrong. Oh, so you know where to do it dorm? No, there's a lot of space to do it. So there's like, you know, but from the other side, I don't really know.

47:16Oh. And I, for some reason, I thought it would be okay.

47:22Jesus. Well, how long did that one take to heal up from? I mean, that was fine because it was just the arm. It wasn't like it wasn't nerve -rowning. It seemed like you were hitting nerve, though. Well, we stopped. We started it again, didn't we? Did we start inside? Yeah, yeah, we stopped. We found a new hole. And we tried again. Yeah, but it was bleeding internally. The looting up and we had to stop the show and yet again, luckily we had an EMT here. Yeah, but he said it was fine. Yeah. And it was. But he was a little bit like, what the fuck? Yeah. Yeah. After it was like, my career is over. I just did the most disgusting things, nothing worked.

48:10It was horrible. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You're going through the way. That's right. That's what we're wrong. Yeah. Yeah. And I always go in the other direction. What is the difference, though, if it's the same spot? I don't know. Maybe. Obviously. Well, I think, is it, it's probably you know how to do it yourself. Well, no, but I let the audience do it when they come on stage. I let them make a spot. Yeah. I mean, I make sure it's above the break. You know, make sure it's not in a dangerous place. But yeah. Yeah. How many times do you stuck a ice picture your arm? Oh my. So many. And do they hang more?

48:45Way more. Thousands. Thousands. Yes. And through both hands, I had to stop with my hand because I was getting the scar tissue. And it was becoming really hard to push the ice. But I did, I did CT scans. I looked at the hand. I studied where all the blood vessels are. So I, I thought about it for a long time before I started doing it. And then I did it with like acupuncture needle. But this is something nobody should do. I, no magician. Nobody because it's just real. There's, there's, it's just not good when things go wrong. Yeah, I would imagine. Yeah. I would imagine that's a real problem.

49:24How do you like decide like what you're going to do when, with these kind of things? Like, what, what makes you come to like, I think I'm going to stick an ice pick through my hand. I think that started early on. There was a magician named Harry Anderson that used to do needle through arm. And it was like a fake arm thing like a stuck it together. And it looks like it's going through. And I was like, that, I think I was like, that could probably really be done. So I think it began with that. And then I heard about a kid that can take a bicycle, spoke and put it through. And then I started thinking, well, if you could do that as a trick but have no blood, then it's kind of amazing.

50:06And what I didn't realize was built basically your blood equiulates when you, so based on time. So if you pushed this through, again, I don't want to give anybody lessons on how this stuff is not good to do it all. But with time, I think when you pull it out, you just don't bleed. Unless you go through the wrong side and hit something. Yeah. But I like those things that just seem impossible. But there's an actual science to it. Who is the guy who would take thin swords and shove them through his lungs? Yeah, Mirand Dio. I have not done that. I'm never going to do that. He died doing that, didn't he?

50:49No. So what happened? Well, normally he would have a rapier pushed through by a doctor. And he would jog with these rapiers through his body, through his lungs right through the middle. And I think what happened was he became very overconfident. I thought he could do anything. And he swallowed a needle, like an ice -picked -sized needle. He swallowed it and thought he was going to push it through. And when he went to sleep, it was still inside of him and it ruptured his heart and then he bled out. Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah, I think he started to get so cocky with what his body could do yet. So this is the guy.

51:26Yeah. Yeah. How does one do that? I mean, if he's got a... He's going to get to burkyloces and so the way his body recovered it, it doesn't... Nobody really knows. But I know scientists and doctors, they all thought it wasn't real. They thought it was a trick. So it took forever for them to even think it was real. Oh, those sideways. Oh, that's right. I forgot this one. So he's going through his fucking intestines. Yeah, he was the human pin -cushion. And that's a doctor? Boy, that doctor. What about DuNo harm, fella? That is so insane. So he's got... I mean, it's insane that he could control.

52:05So he goes through his arms as well. Is that why his bandages? I don't know. But it's insane that he could control it because, you know, obviously when people get stabbed, they could do an X -ray. Is that what he's doing? And look at the holes in his back. I just got holes all through him. Oh, God, dude. Yeah, it's crazy. That guy's got so many holes in it. Yeah, it's crazy. The doctors have to examine your... That's a real sore. And they'll rape you, by the way. Yeah, and then they eat... Like the water comes out. Yeah, don't do that one. Never. Yeah, there's... I mean, there's real danger in a lot of the shit you do.

52:48Well, but I don't just go randomly do things. I start carefully, methodically slow. I have not magicians surrounding me. I have doctors, and I have people that are the best in the world that do these things. There's a slow learning curve. You just never see it. But that one to me, I was like, no, it's not worth the rest. Is anybody else done that other than that guy? I don't think so. Not intentionally.

53:17It's like I stick to cards, bro. Cars are amazing. Why fuck around with the cards? They're amazing. They are amazing. They are amazing. It's light of hand. Yeah, yeah. Skills. Yeah. What's the... The dick -stary, the fine mobile skills, motor skills of your fingers. It's... it's own -pressive. But it makes sense. Like, my left hand is so dumb in comparison to my right hand. Like, if I try to write things with my right hand or try to tie my shoes left -handed, I get one. So you tie your shoes with both fingers. But doing things that's... One hand is better, yeah. Doing things is difficult. Like, with your left hand, it just...

53:56Your brain somehow or another doesn't have a really good relationship with your left hand. Yeah, but as a magician, you change that because you have to work with hands equally. So you definitely rewire the way your fingers move and the way your pinky moves. And you learn to do movements that are not natural. Well, I learned that from boxing. Because when I first started boxing, I'm right -handed and my right hand was so much better than my left hand. But then, after boxing for a few years, my left hand was much better because you used the jab much more than you used the right hand. And my left bicep became larger than my right bicep.

54:31Like, pretty significantly. Wow. Yeah. And Roy Jones Jr.'s the best example of that. Roy Jones Jr. when he flexes, like he was in the studio and he flexed, his left bicep is like twice the size of his right bicep. Because they used to call him Captain Hook. Because he was so fast and so extraordinarily talented that he would throw a left hook the way most people would do. And then, when he flexed, he would throw a jab just like leap in with this insane fast left hook. And his left bicep was enormous. Look at the size difference. Wow. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, that's a huge difference. Huge difference.

55:06And that left hand was a lethal weapon. Amazing. But when you do boxing and you throw jabs and left hooks with your left hand, and then you switch and try to do with your right hand, your right hand seems uncoordinated. And it's really just your brain has this relationship with those particular movements. Look at his bicep. Wow. That's unbelievable. I mean, in his prime, he was just a freak. It's funny because nobody would think of the jab as being, you know, as you do, you would build your jab much more than a... You would do the jab and then you'd occasionally throw right hands. It's probably like a four to one ratio at least.

55:52Yeah. And then left hooks. Yeah. I used to always print t -shirts when I was a kid of Mike Tyson, with him every day. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's... He looks like to me the scariest guy to ever get up a good. He's so scary that when he was in my studio, we had a desk. So Mike Tyson, the first time he came to the studio, Mike was not fighting. He was completely retired. And he said he wouldn't train because he didn't want to reignite his ego. And then the second time he was in the studio, he had decided to take a fight with Roy Jones Jr. And so he was in his 50s and started training again and got in fucking insanely dedicated.

56:40And the way he... I think the way he described, he said the gods of war reignited his ego and brought him back to do combat again. And he was so terrifying that when he was sitting across from me, he was so different between the first podcast and the second podcast, I decided to make the table wider. I was going to make a more narrow table so I was closer to the people, but I was like his energy. What else is this close to him? It was so like confusing. Oh man, he is unbelievable. Yeah, that's number two. That's when he was back. He's my favorite that ever lived. Oh my god, when he was prime in the late 80s, he was a fucking force watcher.

57:22He's walked out with the black shorts and just those socks. Yeah, no socks. Look, man, the way he went through people. Yeah. He's the scariest heavyweight of all time. He was amazing. Yeah. Did you see the Francis and Gano Tyson fury fight? Francis and Gano, who is the UFC heavyweight champion, he vacated the throne and had a boxing match with Tyson Fury, who is the Lineal Heavyweight Champion, dropped him in the third round and won on one judges' gorgard and lost on the other two. So he lost a majority decision in his first ever boxing match against arguably the best heavyweight boxer. Wow. Absolutely alive, but maybe of all time.

58:04Wow. You know, it was pretty, pretty incredible. And I thought he won the decision. A lot of people thought he won the decision. It's a very close fight. I mean, you can maybe say that Tyson Fury, I mean, you could kind of see an argument that he maybe could have won. I don't think so though. When it comes to damage, I looked at it. I've watched it three times. And in my mind, he won the fight. And I think that's one of the most extraordinary accomplishments in combat sports history. A guy who's had zero boxing matches, who is an MMA champion, goes and fights a guy who is one of the greatest boxers it's ever lived.

58:40I mean, Tyson Fury is phenomenal. Now, whether Tyson Fury took him seriously, whether he was overconfident, who knows? I mean, he literally said to him, time to go to school. I'm taking you to school at the beginning of the fight. And then when Tyson Fury said that? Yeah. And then when Francis dropped him in the third round after the fight, Francis was like, you are a shitty professor. And Francis is a real freak. And Francis is six foot five, a natural 272 pounds, and built like a Greek god. Could I see a... Yeah. See if you get the photo of Francis standing over Tyson Fury after he dropped him.

59:15Because I mean, he really rocked him. And by the way, they gave him, I'll send you this, Jamie. They checked the amount of time that it took for him to get up. 23 seconds. So that's after he dropped him. Look how big Francis is. I mean, he's just an extraordinary specimen. And, you know, didn't even start combat sports. He was 25 years old. Where is he from? Cameroon. I mean, well, I had on the podcast. His story is so insane. It is like something from a movie. He was working in the sand mines when he was 10 years old and developed this incredible strength. Fucking digging sand. Wow. And when he was a man decided that he had to leave his village and he wanted to be a professional boxer and wanted to go to Europe.

1:00:02So he walked and made his way to Morocco. Like, hitched rides, all these different things. Made his way to Morocco. And then seven times traveled on rafts to Europe and got arrested and sent back. And when they would send him back, they would drop him off in the Sahara Desert. That's how they would do to people who are trying to make their way to Europe. Wow. And seven times he made his way from the Sahara Desert back to Morocco, back to the raft. And one day finally made his way all the way across, was arrested, was in jail, in Spain for, I think, three or four months. And then was homeless in France for a year, found a gym, started training, and they told him to train in MMA.

1:00:48And so he starts training because he wanted to be a boxer, but they were like, you really should be an MMA champion, an MMA is a more popular sport now. So he starts training in MMA. Four years later he's the UFC heavyweight champion. That's crazy. And the guy he knocks out. Yeah, but it's obviously it's not just his natural strength, it's also his willpower. And it's everything. It's intelligence. So there's where he drops him. So now he drops him. So look at the count. One, two, three, four, five. He's up, six, seven, eight. So he made it up to the count of ten. And he's obviously clearly rocked.

1:01:23Takes a big deep breath. But look, it's 12 seconds, 13, 14. The guy's still counting. Seven, eight. This is a bullshit count. When the referee's still giving him an eight count, and it's 22 seconds before they re -engage. And the way he hits him is just this clubbing left hook. It's not even like full power from Francis. I mean, he did really totally turn like Francis is dancing. It comes out of nowhere though. Yeah. And then battered him again in the eighth round and somehow another, they gave him, they gave Tyson Fury the eighth round on at least one judge's scorecard. Which is fucking insane.

1:01:58It might even do judges. But boxing is a dirty business. It's a dirty sport. I mean, there's always one judge that's in the bag, it seems. At the very least, if they're not absolutely paid off, at the very least, they're deeply indebted to the promoters. And there is some sort of an agenda to have this person who's either the most marketable or the one who most is writing on. I mean, I don't think he's going to have a rematch. He didn't talk about a rematch. He didn't say, wanted a rematch. And Francis wants a rematch for sure. Francis thinks he won the fight. I mean, there's, it's interesting after, you know, the fight when people, immediately afterwards, most people are saying that Francis won.

1:02:45After watching it carefully, some people have said that there could be an argument that Tyson Fury may have pointed him. In my mind, Francis landed by far the harder shots, by far, did more damage. And even though there's this thing that happens when you see an underdog outperform the expectations, which certainly happened. I think he was a 14 to one underdog. By the end of the fight, the online betting odds had Francis favorite to win, which is crazy. And then many people, including myself, felt like he did enough to win the decision. I felt he won by at least one round. And who's that promoter?

1:03:21Oh, God, I forgot his name. The guy who promotes Anthony Joshua, Eddie Herndt. He gave Francis two rounds. He said Francis beat him by two rounds. It's just an extraordinary accomplishment, even losing a majority decision to Tyson Fury's insane. Because the only time this has ever happened before, where an MMA champion fought a boxer was when Con Mcgregor fought Floyd Mayweather. But Con Mcgregor fought Floyd Mayweather when Floyd Mayweather was at the tail end of his career. It was the last bout that Floyd had. And Floyd just kind of like warm out, outboxed him and stopped him in the fight. Whereas Francis fucking dropped him in the third round and battered him in the eighth round.

1:04:06And it was just an insane performance. I mean, literally like a legendary combat sports performance. It'll go down in history when they talk about boxing and things that people have accomplished. It's one of the greatest accomplishments ever. Pretty amazing. You trained both boxing and everything. Yeah, I've done everything. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Zippercruder. The hiring process is stressful. There are so many different things to consider. And on top of it all, you need to get it done quickly. It's like when you're trying to find a decent contractor for a home renovation project or even a new primary care doctor.

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1:06:50I have it. I use it and I love it. Your body will thank you for this investment in better sleep shipping to many countries worldwide. See details at eightsleep .com slash rogan. But what's the prefer? Mamma Mae for sure. Yeah, there's more options. It's more complicated. I mean, I think the boxing is an amazing skill. It's an amazing thing to learn. It's very helpful in terms of self defense. It's an excellent. It's a must know. If you want to compete in combat sports, you must know how to box. But a really comprehensive skill set that a true MMA champion will have is far better. And if a boxer, like an elite boxer fought an MMA fighter, they would have almost no chance.

1:07:38Like if Tyson Fury fought Francis and Gano in an MMA fight and beat Francis in an MMA fight, that would be more extraordinary than Francis beating or rather than Tyson Fury. If Tyson Fury beat Francis in an MMA fight, it would be more extraordinary than Francis beating Tyson Fury in a boxing match. Because at least a big part of Francis's skill set is his punching power and his hands. Whereas Tyson Fury has almost no experience in grappling, kicking, any of those skills. If he beat Francis in an MMA fight, that would be like the most incredible thing that I was ever done. Ever. But no boxer. Other than the only boxer that's ever even like at an elite level competed in MMA, was James Tony fought Randy Couture.

1:08:27And he got, it was at the end of James Tony's career. He had already accomplished incredible feats as a pure boxer and kind of just took it for a paycheck. And he got taken down and just strangled pretty quickly. Randy Couture just ankle picked him, prompted the ground down on top of him, had an arm choked him. It was, it was a, once he got to the ground, it was like a foregone conclusion. Randy was going to destroy him. No boxer has ever said in the middle of their, like if it's if Manipackel in the middle of his prime said, I am going to fight MMA. That would be insane. And he would probably get his face kicked off.

1:09:01I mean, probably get strangled, probably get taken down strangled and he would be helpless. It's a different skills yet. There's so much more to MMA. To me, it's more exciting to watch. It's certainly more complicated. It requires more of you. You have to train in multiple disciplines. You're not just trading and using your hands. You're trading kicking elbows, punches, knees, takedowns, submissions, submission defense. The rounds are longer. They're five minute rounds, it's supposed to three minute rounds. It's like five minutes is a long time. It's a long time. And in the old days, in the pride day, well, in the old days, the UFC, there was no time limit.

1:09:37And then in the pride days, which was one of the glory years of MMA in Japan, they would have a 10 minute first round. And that was very, very hard. That really, Dan Henderson, who was in here before, was one of the all -time greats, said that was what separated the men from the boys, that 10 minute round. Because, you know, a lot of minutes is straight fighting. It's crazy. Against a train killer. It's crazy. It's crazy. For the whole world. And they would do this, like the Saitama Super Reno, it was like 90 ,000 people, the Tokyo dome, these enormous venues. Yeah. It's just the endurance training that goes into it.

1:10:13It's like nothing else. Like nothing else. Like, not that boxing is not insanely difficult on your endurance as well, especially at a very elite level. It's, I mean, next to wrestling, which is probably one of the most difficult things, it's about as hard a combat sport. It exists. But MMA is the top. That's the top. If the MMA champion is widely regarded by almost anyone who's an expert as being the baddest man on the planet, that's the whatever way class it is, the MMA champion, for the most part, is going to dominate someone who is just a boxer. Right. For the most part. You know, but, you know, you've got some guys like Mike Tyson.

1:10:52If someone taught Mike Tyson kicking defense and how to take people down, could fucking luck. Fuck it. When that guy's coming at you through all punches, it's just a different thing. Yeah. He was the most, it was the most exciting thing ever. Someone here to bite. He was so fast. He was so fast. He was so fast for a heavyweight. He was so, even for then France, I mean, France has hit so hard, but he's, it's different. Mike was so fast. The combinations just come like lightning and he would be shifting side to side, be standing in front of you through a hook and also, and he off to the right. And he would right hook you to the body and hit you in uppercut and they would shift to the left.

1:11:30Oh my God. He was a fucking, he was a fucking, he was a fucking, he was a fucking, he was a fucking And everybody was a scuddy. Down. Oh man. Yeah. Yeah. I cried when the buster dug this thing up. No, that was serious. I did. He's really, yes. Of course. He was the icon of our, he reignited people's interest in heavyweight boxing. Because at the time Larry Holmes had retired and there was no real compelling heavyweight on the scene and then Tyson came along, you know. But I remember buster Douglas's mom had just died and I made it to him. And I also remember reading. He was out like eating burgers and things before.

1:12:09He's like, hmm. That Tyson was? Yeah. Like he would be out and like right before the fight. So I think all those things played in and just. Well, I'm sure. I mean, there's certainly overconfidence that comes with someone who just thinks they could destroy anyone in the front of him. Yeah, well, he could. Because his mentor had died, custom auto had died years earlier and it was just very different. You know, and I also think that there's a certain level of performance that a fighter can only maintain for a certain amount of time. Right. Because the amount of dedication and dreams, it's so extraordinary.

1:12:44I'm president. Yeah, you really can only do it for so many years. Yeah. And then eventually you fall off. Yeah. And I always say when you talk about all time greats, you can talk about all time great careers and there's people like Bernard Hopkins who had insane careers that went into his 50s. But when you look at like the, when they burn the hottest, who was the best during that time, there was no one like Tyson. There was no one like Roy Jones Jr. There was the. Mike Tyson was also a showman. Like it was a show. It was an execution. You were essentially, you were, you were, you were just, you were just, you were just there.

1:13:21Yeah. He was there right through them. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he was awesome. He was an awesome specimen. I mean, just a, a, a, a perfect example of an elite boxer who had a very unusual skill set. I mean, to be a short guy for the heavyweight division, but insanely fast and just on her, it felt like a brick shit house. Just coming in, winging bombs. To me, the, the Tyson that is the scariest was the Marvis Frazier fight. When he beat Marvis Frazier was before he won the title and it was on ABC, Y World of Sports. And I remember watch that calling. Oh my God. Who can beat that guy? He was just, it was just different.

1:14:01You know, there was every other heavyweight, like they were, like they were stuck in mud. They look so slow in comparison to him. And the music when he would walk out was just like noise. It sounded like the clanging of steel and it was like, it's actually the documentary where he describes his mindset from the locker room up into the time he gets into the ring. No, it's amazing because he talks about being afraid, like in the locker room, but then at the time he gets into the, into the ring, he's unstoppable. He says, I'm a God. So you can find that because it's so scary. It's so extraordinary because he would describe.

1:14:39Of course, you're walking into the ring. You ever get scared? To death. Real. Yeah. You never looks good. Well, that's the whole thing. Boxing is like acting. You always project what you don't feel on someone else. As I got older, I found out him was getting me, then I am a little 100 percent. You know, once I found that out, I almost stopped training. No, that's not the one. And it's a scene from his documentary where he talks about it. And he just, and he said, you know, he just talks about like what was going through his mind in the locker room, all the fears and all the worries and all the different things.

1:15:16And the ring with them. Yeah. Soon that coming to the ring, I'm glubed. No, stop it. That's not true. While I'm in the dressing room, five minutes before I come out, my glubs are laced up. I'm breaking my glubs down. I'm pushing the lever in the back of my lung. I'm breaking the middle of the glubs for my knuckle, pierced through the leg. I feel my knuckle piercing against the tight leather glubs on the ever -rathed boxing glub. And I come out of the supreme confidence. I'm scared to death. I'm totally afraid. I'm afraid of everything. I'm afraid of losing. I'm afraid of being humiliated. But I'm totally confident.

1:15:50Close I get to a ring more confident than I get. Close I get more confidence. I get the closer more confidence I get. All during my training, I've been afraid of this man. I thought this man might be capable of beating me. I've dreamed of beating me. But that's what I always stayed afraid of him. But it was close I get to the ring. I'm more confident. Once I'm in the ring, I'm a god. No one could beat me.

1:16:15I'm walking around the ring. I never take my eyes off my opponent. I keep my eyes on him. Even the feet are ready and pumping. He can't wait to get his hands on me as well. I keep my eyes on him. I keep my eyes on him. I keep my eyes on him. Then one guy see a chink in his arm. Boom. One of his eyes may move. And then I know I have him. Then when he comes to the center of the ring, he still looks at me with his piercing look and that. If he's not afraid, but he already made that mistake when he looked down for that one tenth of a second, I know I had him. He'll fight hard for the first two or three rounds.

1:16:47I know I really broke his spirit. During the fight, I'm supremely confident. I'm moving my head. He's throwing punches. I'm making a mistake. And I'm countering. I'm hitting him to the body. I'm punching a real hard. And I'm punching and I'm punching him. I know he's not able to take my punches. One, two, three punches. I'm throwing them both punches and bunches. He goes down. He's out of speed. I'm victorious. And the power. I'm the hardest fighter ever lived. This speed was just insane. Speed was coming. She's like literally like a lightweight or a middleweight. But he was 225 pounds. A few.

1:17:23I hate to break up this party, but I have to pee so bad. So let's take a little break. We'll be right back. So I have had legitimate psychedelic states from meditation and from yoga. And the big one for me is the sensory deprivation tank. I've had them. I've had like full -blown experiences in the sensory deprivation tank while sober, where if I could give you a pill that would get you to that place, you'd be like, oh my god, I'm on a drug. And I've come out of that, those psychedelic states, which I call psychedelic. You know, I could tell someone, I had a psychedelic experience. And I didn't take a drug.

1:17:58I had a psychedelic experience in the sensory deprivation tank, meditating, and going through these deep breathing exercises. It's not a psychedelic experience like mushrooms or like dimethyl trip to mean or a lot of other fun. No, it's like you can make to something that's more beautiful and spiritual and a heightened sense of awareness. Very heightened sense of awareness, but also a completely altered state of consciousness that I don't think you would ever imagine is available to you just naturally. But what I've had in these psychedelic experiences naturally is nothing compared to what these Kundalini masters have.

1:18:37Kundalini masters, and I have a friend who has done this who trained Kundalini yoga for many, many years, right? And learned how to get to a full -blown like hallucinatory psychedelic experience where there's geometric patterns and you're connected to entities. And the way he described it, he's done psychedelics and he's done Kundalini. He said it's much better. No, no, no, no. He said they're indesernable. There's the same experience, exact same experience. Like you can get there. You can get there naturally, which makes sense because the human mind, the brain, produces psychedelic chemicals.

1:19:11They're very dodgently produced, particularly dimethyl trip to mean. It is a naturally produced psychedelic substance that your brain and your whole body creates. Your brain makes it. So whatever you're doing when you're getting hypnotized, there is something going on. And I mean, I think you could measure it in the brain as far as like FMRI or EEG or some sort of methodology where they would use equipment to measure your brain waves and they would find a difference in the frequency. But I think more importantly than that, I believe there's an endogenous release of certain chemicals, whether it's, like here's another example.

1:19:53We just did, I've got a bunch of comics that are out of shape and one of the things that I told them I said, listen, come in with me, I'll take you to the gym. I'm not going to make you do anything. It's gonna brutalize you. I'm gonna slowly get you guys in shape and we've been doing it for the past few weeks now. But one of the things we do afterwards is the cold plunge. And so that's the past. It's amazing. The cold plunge is amazing. So my friend Shane Gillis, who did it, we did it yesterday. He got out of it. He's like, dude, I feel like I'm on Molly. I go, right, but you know why? Because your brain ramps up dopamine, outside, when you get out of the cold plunge, you do three minutes.

1:20:31Your dopamine gets increased by 200 % and it lasts for hours, hours and hours. So you feel like you are on a drug and it is a drug that your body is producing. So you are in a psychedelic state after you get out of the cold plunge. And especially if you feel gratitude and you go into it with the right mindset and you leave it, you feel so beautiful. You feel so in tune with it. Yeah. Yeah. Do you do the sauna also? Like sauna to cold plunge? Yeah, I do it back and forth. That's my favorite. Yeah. I used to do that at Rick Rubens house because his sauna would get really, really hot. Yeah, Rick Rubens, how we talk about it all the time?

1:21:12Yeah, it would do the cold plunge. And the sauna is really amazing. It's amazing. And it does give you a very bizarre altered state of consciousness that is the exact same thing as a psychedelic experience. I feel like it also makes you tougher to the environment. You know, I think it's like there's a lot of things that it does. Volunteer. It also sets your mindset. So like when somebody's going to go into the ocean and I go, it's too cold, you know that you can just go in. Yes. I think I used to do that as a kid subconsciously. I would wear a t -shirt all winter. And I would like, you know, when we moved to Jersey, we'd walk a mile and a half or whatever it was in the freezing cold winter night.

1:21:49And there was a kid, my friend Matt, that used to always wear a t -shirt in the winter. And I thought that was so cool. Everybody else didn't really pay attention. But I would just start wearing t -shirts all winter. And I think that's in a weird way the beginning of like me understanding that you could fight the cold with your mind. Yeah. And then when he went into the movie theater, you were perfect. And you felt great. Yeah. Yeah. When you're no longer cold, your body's like, and I would never get sick by the way. I'd never get sick. Yeah. Yeah. Because it really enhanced you. And everybody that was all bundled up all the time, they were always getting sick.

1:22:25Right. I don't understand that you. And your body's stronger. I think so. 100%. 100%. The cold plunge absolutely does that. But I also love extreme heat too. I do too. I love it. There's a lot of reason. By the way, to have a cold punch in a sawdust. Why don't you have that? I don't know about that. You need to get that. I have that. I have a heater. I have it at home. I live off that. I think it's extraordinary. And there's also a lot of like real research that backs that up. There's a study out of Finland that was done that showed four times a week for 20 minutes. They studied these people over 20 years.

1:23:02And the people that did it four times per week had a 40 % decrease in all cause mortality. Hard to text. Stroke. Yeah. And that's the answer every time. Because of heat shock protein. For sure. So your body's developing these heat shock proteins from the sauna and its reducing inflammation. And it also increases your cardiovascular output. And that's one of the things that wrestlers, like Dan Gable, who is like one of the most extraordinary wrestlers of all time, he learned that from the Soviets. Because the Soviets in one of these Eastern block countries, they were using the sauna as a part of their training.

1:23:33So he started incorporating into his training and using his, for his wrestlers. And then it also sweats out the toxins. It does all this amazing stuff to you as well. Like just more importantly, it's the heat shock proteins. That all toxin talk is like, oh really? It gets a little bit of a hippy dip. Chris Jones. You know, I went to Finland. I went to the Arctic Circle with my daughter on New Year's a few years ago. And we stayed in this ice hotel. Oh, I've heard of that. Yeah. And it was freezing. And the only thing you have, obviously, it was freezing. But the only thing you have is like a little sleeping bag to sleep in.

1:24:07And so we were sleeping in those sleeping bags and the whole night I couldn't get a wink of sleep because I was thinking she's gonna freeze it. So I kept touching her, making sure that was okay. But she loved it and it was amazing. It was incredible. I think it'd be probably a fun thing to do for a night and then go stay in the ice hotel. Well, that's what we did with these big waters. Yeah. Did you see the Northern lights when you were up there? The Aurora Borealis. Yeah, amazing. I want to do that. I'm home. You've never seen that? No. No, I've never seen that. In Iceland, you can say, yeah, it's amazing.

1:24:41I heard it's insane. Amazing. It's all green, right? Oh, you'll cry. Yeah. It's fucking amazing. Yeah, we've talked about doing that for one of our family trips, going to see the Northern lights. You have to go do that. Yeah, I do. I do have to go do that. Yeah, there it is. Yeah. Wow, that's crazy. Is that the ice hotel? Well, no, that's all. I'm just saying. No, but that one looks amazing. Wow, look at that. I think it's one of those down there with the sculptures. And it, yeah. Pretty dope. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's cool. There's something to extreme cold and extreme heat where your body understands that it's in danger and then it becomes stronger resisting it.

1:25:22And it produces cold shock proteins for the cold and heat shock proteins for the heat. I think it's extreme deprivation also. Yeah. Well, it certainly makes you more resilient for other things too. If you can do, I start my day with that. The first thing I do before I do anything, I get in the cold punch. I do it before workouts. So I get in the cold punch with three minutes. It takes up the inflammation as well, probably. It does, but it also jacks up your testosterone because for some reason, when you go into extreme cold for three minutes and then you work out, the effect is that your testosterone gets jacked up.

1:25:54That's the real, I never heard about this. Yeah, that's something that there was a study out of Japan. And there's something that people are just starting to incorporate now that they're starting to realize the benefits of those. I'll start doing that. The best overall health and wellness, it's just amazing. It's an amazing thing. And I very, very, very rarely get sick. The last time I was really sick at all was COVID, and I was only sick for a couple days. Before that, I hadn't been sick in 11 years. And I think a lot of that is training, vitamins, a lot of different things that I do. And when you start to feel sick right away, go super clean.

1:26:29Yeah. Teas, ginger, lemon, a little honey, all those things, they definitely work. They definitely work. And it's also recognizing, understanding your body, because you're used to exercise. You have a deeper relationship with your body. You know when your body feels weak. Like when I, one of the times my whole family got COVID, and I didn't, and I think one of the reasons why I didn't is not just that I'm really healthy, and I work out a lot, but I started working out, and I was like, boy, I feel unusually weak today. Like I, so what I'm gonna do is, I'm gonna stick to a light kettlebell. I stuck to 35 pounds, and I'm just gonna do a very minimal routine of like 10 clean presses each side, 10 swings each side, and just stop and relax.

1:27:13And that's what I did. And I did that for two days, and then the third day, I started feeling really strong. And I said, well, let's just push it today, and I went back to a normal workout. So I think my body was resisting whatever was going on in my house, and all around me, and then I got through it, and I never got sick. Do you do anaerobic training? I do all kinds of training. Anaerobic is my favorite. I think that helps with the breath hold. I think it helps with the... When you say anaerobic training, what do you do? Where you're depriving your muscles of O2. So let's say we were doing kettlebell swings, let's say with a 35 pound, you would do 50 of them, or 54, but anyway, so you could do whatever high number you want, then you take a minute, and then you do it again.

1:27:55Then you take a minute, do it again, or with the battle rope you do. Let's say 10 minutes straight, and it builds up such a high tolerance. It's amazing. Even if you're just doing lunges, you can just do them slowly, and really feel the burn. And then it burns for a long time after. Well, your body is like a race car that you could build the horsepower on the engine just through will. Just through will, and intelligent training, and doing it properly. You can build your output, change how the thing works. But when I'm holding my breath, those things that that training is exactly what plays a part, because when I start to feel that pain, and I want to quit, I know that I can keep going.

1:28:43So it's almost like I train in extreme conditions to be able to do the other stuff. Yeah, it makes sense. It makes sense, and the boundaries of what is possible versus what you think is possible, the only way to explore those is by trying things like that. And by doing things like the cold and the heat, and just realizing that your body can tolerate a lot more than you think you can. And then when you get out of the... Build the resistance quickly. Yes, you do. Well, that was the thing with Shane, the first time he got into the water, he couldn't even do a minute. He's like, fuck, fuck! And then yesterday he did three minutes.

1:29:22Yup. He has today, and it's only been two weeks. So he climbed in there, and he's like, in there for three minutes. And then he got as like dude, he goes, I feel like I'm on a molly. He goes, this is amazing. It's amazing, right? I go, now it's getting a sauna. You're gonna feel so good. And you get in the sauna, and you close your eyes, and you just, you feel like you're flying. Like, oh! And it's also a great mindset to just walk in. You know, you just, you don't tip toe, and you just walk, walk, walk. And you go all the way under, right? Just go in, and then come up. Yeah, just go in, just go in and deal with it.

1:29:51Yeah. I can just go in and have a normal conversation with people. Yeah. But the first time I did it, I couldn't even do a minute and half. I think I did like a minute and 24 seconds. I was like, oh Jesus, fuck, fuck, fuck! And then the second time I did it, I did it longer. And I think the third time I did four minutes, and then the fourth time I did it, I did 20 minutes. Or 21 minutes or something like that. What's the temperature of it? Like 33 degrees? 33? Yeah, that was rough. How do you get it to be 33? I have a, what's called a moroscope cold forge. And it's really cold. It's just above first.

1:30:24Right, so I have to come back at one point. I cracked the ice with a kettlebell to get into it sometimes. Or allow it. There's a video of me pushing aside the ice where I climb into it on my Instagram. Well, you could see what it looks like. It's just, there's just like giant floating chunks of ice in this fucker. And I just climb in there and just deal with it. And it's, and I can talk like normal. I can get in there. My body so accustomed to it. Yeah, do it every day. I fucking hate it every time I'm about to do it. I don't want to do it every time I'm about to do it. I'm trying to figure out a way I can push it out.

1:30:59So there's two, like my, two people in my brain. Approach it. It's less, much lesser extent, but there's two people in my brain. There's this little bitch. Here it is. Yeah, give me some volume. See all the ice in there? Oh, yeah, that's great. Yeah, that's great. I first started doing the cold punch. The, it was difficult for me to get, to just like a minute and a half. That's the reason. And I'm still just as cold, but now I understand it now. I've been here before. I've experienced it. Are you listening to music? No, I'm talking. So that's like the microphone. But I do listen to music. I generally listen to books in the sauna.

1:31:49That's one of them, but there's another one that was even more ice. This is the first one I popped up. Yeah, if you find it, there's another one that I have a little more. It's called as fuck. Yeah, it looks amazing. Yeah. But again, part of me is like, don't do it. I don't wanna do it. Don't do it. And like that's the, like, that's the, like, approach it. That's your inner bitch. You gotta conquer your inner bitch. And you gotta tell your inner bitch, shut the fuck up pussy. Like my friend John Justice, he says a mindset. My friend John Joseph, he does a lot of triathlons and he used to be a drug addict and now he's like super disciplined triathlete.

1:32:22And he said, the way he says it with his like heavy New York accent, he goes, your mind tells you a body. Who's the fucking boss? Yeah, that's what it is. Like, until it doesn't. Until it doesn't. Yeah, but there's a limit, but you have to figure out what that limit is and get to that limit. But I think that, by the way, I think that's part of the thing that I love about learning those crazy things, because even like to kiss the cobra, it is, no, no, no, but seriously, as you approach, it's like all of those thoughts go through your mind. And then as you get there, suddenly everything shuts down and it's just you and the cobra and your hyper alert to its movements, to its behavior, and you're in some sort of a zone that's crazy.

1:33:07And you have to stay very calm or the cobra pretends to be. And if you're not, you get the hell out. Yeah. But I mean, that's one of the things that people enjoy about watching your performances, is that everyone knows physical limitations and everyone knows that every human being has this inherent desire to avoid discomfort. And the fact that you seek it and you don't just seek it, but you're doing it like in the cold for that frozen block of ice for 60 plus hours. It's fucking insane. And that's like, is he still doing it? Like people who tune in the next day, well, how many days has he been in that fucking block of ice?

1:33:48What's the trick? There's no trick. The trick is the mind controlling the body and you decide that you can do it. Even with this series that we're doing, I have a team, I have imagined is helping me put the together. So I have a team for the first time. And they said, oh, we're gonna find this, we're gonna do that, we're gonna sky dive off of balloon, you know, all these, I said, no, find me things that when I hear them, I'm gonna be very uncomfortable hearing to even think about doing. Find me those things that when I hear them, I wanna run away. That's what I want. So they said, okay, we're gonna cover you with a quarter million bees or you're gonna do this, you're gonna be put on fire, you're gonna have scorpions out, you know, so a lot of things that you did, we did unfair factor.

1:34:30We covered people with bees on fear factor, we covered people with scorpions on fear factor. Especially those big ass dark black scorpions you know what's called? The kind of scorpions, maybe I have like the elephant scorpions. I don't remember what they're called, but the really big scary looking black shiny ones. Yeah, and people got lit up by those things too. And they get stung too. And it's like a bee sting. I think it's like 20 bee sting. Is it like 20? I think so. Whatever it is. It's not good. I was stung by the four scorpions. Is it an emperor scorpion? Yeah, yeah, exactly, that's right.

1:35:03Those are terrors. I was stung by the first scorpion, the first one. And you have to stay perfectly still and perfectly calm. And unlike a bee, they don't die. But with the bee sting, yeah. But with the bees, it really was incredible to be, you know, we put the queen and the locket around the neck and then they all swarm you. And when they're all vibrating around your body, it is one of those feelings. It is pure magic, unlike anything you've ever experienced. I don't recommend it, but it is incredible. It's just when they, when I shook them off, that's when I think I started to get stung. When we did it on fear factor, this was very interesting.

1:35:44We did it at this ranch. And there was a local hive of bees. So we had all the bees that we brought in. We covered people with bees, but then a local hive sent a bunch of bees to find out what the fuck was going on. And the beekeeper knew that these were different bees. And he said, hey, we have to stop production right now. For a while, they have to sort this out because they have to communicate with each other. Right. So somehow or another of these local bees were talking to these bees that we brought in. And they're like, hey, what the fuck are you guys doing here? Like, oh, we're doing a TV show.

1:36:18I don't know. I mean, whatever the fuck they said to each other. But there was some sort of communication and apparently it was settled to the point where the local bees were like, they'd made some sort of an agreement. The local bees left. And then the other bees, and then we went back to filming. But we had to stop down production for it. I think it was like a good half an hour where these bees had to work this out. And I was saying to the guys, these are so incredible. And I was so fast in it. I was like, how are they doing this? Like, what's going on? We don't know. We don't know what they're doing.

1:36:47We don't know how the, but I know that this is how it works. But even when they want to kill like a wasps, you know, they all so well and they all vibrate and make the temperature go up. And they're incredible. Right. And how do they know? How do they know to do that? How do they know? You know, I have leaf cutters. They're hives are so symmetrically perfect. Right. How do they know how to make that? What kind of communication are they having? And they also, they're so efficient too, just the uses of space and the way they design it is. Yeah. Like architecture that we can't even do now. It's pretty amazing.

1:37:19And they're doing it with their mouths. You know, we have leaf cutter ants. It's very common out here. And you know, they'll destroy plants. They just take little pieces of each leaf. And you see like a whole line of these ants. And I don't know if you've ever seen leaf cutter ants hive their colonies. They have these incredibly complex systems that they build in the ground. And the way we've found out about these things is by unfortunately flooding them with cement. So they'll flood these bee things, these ant colonies, these cutter leaf cutter ants, these whatever they would call these hives or whatever they call it.

1:38:03And then they dig it all out. And when they dig it all out after it's covered with cement, they get to see how insanely complex these structures are. So they have these little pods that they have these areas that they have designated where they build these holes. They dig in and they remove all the dirt and these long tunnels. And they even have ventilation systems where some of the leaves will ferment. So they have leaves that are slowly decaying and fermenting and they build them so that these leaves have access to oxygen. They have no idea how these leaf cutter ants are communicating, how they know how to do this, how they figure this out, and how they consistently do this all over the world.

1:38:50Like look how enormous this structure is that they're digging out. And this is all because they fill the entire thing up with concrete. So here's their pouring this concrete. See, there you see the leaf cutter ants, you see the surface area. And then they slowly dump this concrete in there, which is like a fucking genocide of leaf cutter ants. Unfortunately, it's the only way they can find this out. And then once they do that, once they've done it, then they allow it to harden and then they slowly dig it out, takes a long time. But the result is this knowledge of this insane insect that has these complex structures.

1:39:30That is crazy. It's amazing because if you think of how tiny an ant is and how big that is, that's akin to Manhattan. Like what the fuck are they doing? They're doing more. Yeah, it's amazing. And how, what's going on? Like how do they know how to do this, how do they know how to do this in Africa, and they also know how to do this in Texas? How do they know how to do this? Yeah, it's absolutely cool. What's going on? Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, never underestimate anything, everywhere. Yeah, but it also makes you wonder, like what is being stored in the genes, and what do we have, and what kind of information do we have in our genes that's inherent to the species?

1:40:13That's just like a part of you as a human being that's in there. Maybe that is like one of the reasons why people are naturally afraid of snakes. A lot of people are naturally afraid of monsters, scary things. Hard -wired. Yeah, hard -wired for them. Yeah, because like kids aren't necessarily born afraid of car accidents, but car accidents are much more likely to kill you than a monster. Right. But kids are terrified of monsters. Right. What's a monster from? Well, it's probably our genetic memory of cats, of big cats that want to kill us. Yep. In the dark. Right. Monsters are always in the dark.

1:40:53Yep. Cats are nocturnal. Yep. They have big teeth, they're scary, they hide and wait for you. Well, that's why people are wired to feel really, you know, uncomfortable when they're standing on stage and have to speak publicly. It's like the number one fear, and the reason is because the hard wiring is, you know, when we were on an elevated platform with lots of eyeballs looking up at us, those were predators, those reliance or other tribes or whatever it was. So we had to be fearful. So it's hard wired. So people, when they stand on stage, they're not at risk of getting eaten by a lion, but they still have those really uncomfortable feelings.

1:41:30Well, I've been told that it's because you were being judged, like you did something wrong. So, but I think it's more deeply rooted than that. I think if you run an elevated platform and you have lots of eyeballs on you, you're an easy target. But it's not always elevated. Like sometimes people don't like speaking in front of people that are the same level of them. I think, but it's just lots of eyeballs on you. Lots of eyeballs. But I think it's you're being judged. And most of the time I think in tribal cultures, if you were being judged, you'd probably done something wrong. And you're probably being tried.

1:42:04Isn't it probably a combination? Yeah. Earlier before that. Right. You know, when you try a lot of factors. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very interesting, like what, like how the mind works and how many complex layers are in there, how anxiety works, how fears work, how people can trick themselves into thinking the worst case scenario is definitely going to happen. Which is mindful. Which is part of the survival mechanism. Yeah. Because the ability to anticipate danger. But you can change that part of your brain. Yes. You can slowly, the way your friends slowly built a resistance to be able to go into the cold plunge.

1:42:45Do the exact same thing with any fear that you have. Yes. And people that don't have any experience with scary things, everything scary. Do you want to have any experience with adversity? Right. Any experience with overcoming things, any experience with doing things that make you nervous? Or fun every day. It's something that makes you nervous. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the one thing that everybody's terrified of their children being too sheltered. Yes. We all know children that are too sheltered and that don't try dangerous things or scary things that make them nervous. Well, those kids are fucked when they go out into the real world.

1:43:17Yeah. You haven't prepared them properly. Yeah. Yeah. It's a tricky balance. It is a tricky balance. Because you want to protect them. Yeah. I was alone a lot as a kid and that also was really difficult. And dangerous. And dangerous. Yeah. That's the other thing. You never like by -ringed children. Yeah. But you learn a lot. You learn survival. If you live. When I would get mugged and I was a kid, I didn't have a bad growing up in Brooklyn. But I would see like a man across the street and I'd have like five kids mugging me. I'd be like, that. And they would like run away because they were like 13.

1:43:48I was like, so I learned quickly how to get out of bad situations. Yeah. How many times you get mugged? A couple. You know, three, something like that. It wasn't a big deal. Right. But if you do survive those situations, you gain with the call streets marks. Yes. Yeah. And you learn. And you adapt. And you learn quickly. You also learn that human beings are not always nice. There's a lot of human beings that are not nice. Yeah. Well, in certain situations. Yeah. Yeah. But you could also find human beings that are not nice and you can make them nice quickly. If you know how to be calm and give the right energy.

1:44:29Sometimes. I had after a skydive injury, I broke my foot and I was walking around with a boot on and I was walking around Paris. And I saw a guy driving a truck and a bicycle delivery guy were in a heated argument. And the guy with the bicycle had his bike lock in his hand. And they were about to beat the hell out of each other. And I just walked into the middle of them and I said, uh, pulsing, you know, think of a card and a bridge. And they both looked at me. Like, who is this weirdo? And suddenly the fight was diffused. You just get to do the card trick. Well, I didn't get to the card trick part, but just there's a guy here.

1:45:08Right. And they're both heated up. But like if one goes against me, then it's too, you know, so it kind of diffused it. But I have diffused fights with card tricks many times. Really? Yes. How have you done that? Well, I see people like about to fight like an union square and I just walk right in the middle. I'm like, here, let me show you card trick because I'm not there, Adam. And they're so confused and then I do magic. And then it's over. Well, I think also a lot of times when people are involved in an altercation, they're looking for a way out and they don't know how to get out of it. And so if you disrupt that, like, now's a new thing to concentrate on.

1:45:39Yes. It alleviates some of the tension. That's right. And then by the time you're done, it's already over. Yeah. That's hilarious. Is that you, so did you start out doing that street magic? Is that when you first started doing magic? I mean, I was doing magic since I was like five years old. So I would do really simple mathematical tricks. But then I started to learn more and more. And then, you know, I was a magic nerd at the age of 10. And then I would kind of just walk around like practice shuffling cards and stuff like that. We moved back into the city. One time I was doing a one handed shuffle and a bunch of guys that were working at the parking garage saw me doing the shuffle and they thought it was amazing.

1:46:18It's like, yeah. And they came over and I started doing magic and their reactions were amazing. And that's kind of when I realized, oh, like, yeah, magic's pretty amazing to perform. Because before that, I didn't, I only performed for a couple of friends. Luckily, because kids are a tough audience for a magician. And so whatever I have, like, whatever I'm teaching a young kid magic, I say, do it to your friends, parents, not to your friends, not at school. Because one bad experience and you don't want to ever do magic again. Right. You know, but parents and their friends are going to be a nice audience.

1:46:52That's good advice. Back then, how would you learn how to do, say, car tricks? Back then, all you had was books, which was amazing. I mean, you would read books and you'd read this trick and then you would learn it step by step. And then you would do it and then you'd do it and then you'd do it. And when you did it a thousand times, it started to become like your own thing. And then you might change something about it and then you'd really make it your own. And then to this day, they're still evolving. Like whenever I do magic, I'm still thinking and processing and adding little tweaks. So it doesn't stop.

1:47:23Yeah. Magicians are notoriously secretive about their methods. So how much do they teach you in books? Books in magic have a lot. But the good stuff is hard to come across. It's not in books. How old are the books? Like what's the old stuff? Oh, well, the first one was like, I think it was called Discovery of Witchcraft from like 1584 or something like that. And a guy wrote all these secrets of methods that like witches were using. And they were being burned alive. So he's like, here, this is how they're doing it. It's tricks. You got to stop killing the witches. And then they destroyed all the copies of that book, but some survived.

1:48:01And that book has incredible secrets that I've done on my TV shows. Like there's one where you take a dead fly and bring it back to life that's written up from 1584. Wow. I believe it's 1584. That was one of the interesting things that I read about the invention of the printing press that once they started making books, some of the first books were about how to spot witches. Like, I was thinking that, oh, back then, it must have been amazing because now all sudden people could write down all this knowledge and people can learn. Like, nope. Some of the first books, like the most popular books, like How to Spot a Witch.

1:48:38And there was a lot of, I guess, I guess. Well, like, who was the first person to figure out card tricks? Is there like a, like a fucking originator? I would, I would assume, like there's a book written by a guy that called himself Erdnays, the expert, the card table. And he had so many secrets in this book that are so relevant to all of the magic that any card magician does to this day. And he was using it mostly for cheating or to explain how people were cheating. Yeah, because they would put their games. Yes. And to this day, but when you're a cheat at cards, you have to work on three moves and be flawless because you cannot get busted.

1:49:27So if you're a card cheat and you get busted, you're going to get your hands broken or worse, right? So these guys that were card cheats, their moves are technically perfect. I remember I was with a guy named Doc and we were surrounded by a bunch of magicians and he just did a cut the deck, complete the cut, switched the whole deck and none of us could see it. None of us could see the deck being switched out. It was invisible. And he now magicians will work on thousands of moves, right? So they don't have the time put in to be as flawless as this guy, but this guy needs it to survive. Whereas magicians using it to entertain.

1:50:02So you have room margin for error, right? But these card cheats, their precision is, it doesn't even make sense. There's moves that you see that you just can't rationalize and you can't explain how they're done. Really? Yeah. Now, how does one do a cut the deck cheat? Switches the whole deck. So if it was a red deck right here, he cuts the deck and half completes it and it's a blue deck and you cannot see it happen. And he's doing it with one hand? One handed. Where's the other deck? Not going to tell. But I couldn't give you one hint. OK. He does have some money in his hand. It could hold some hundreds or whatever.

1:50:48Right. That's only him giving, but it's flawless and incredible. But there's lots of guys that just are incredible. There's a guy named Rod the Hop and he used to go to the New York. He passed away recently in prison, but he used to go to the New York underground on casinos. And when he was a kid, I think he was like 15. He would just go to watch, right? To see because he was a magician, but he was like, what could be done? I think that's what I went. And one day there was a guy that was like in his late 60s and he said to the guy, I saw what you were doing. And the guy's like, no, you didn't kid.

1:51:26And he's like, yeah, I did. And he's like, then tell me what I was doing. And Rod said you were putting, he had a button up shirt and he said you were switching cards through your shirt. And the guy's like, how do you know that? Because it's invisible. And he said, well, I'm a magician. He said, you're not a magician anymore. And he taught Rod the Hop had a cheat. And from that day on, Rod the Hop became one of the best cheats ever. And then he went to prison because he had a card. I met him before he went to prison. And he had a little device that he would put into all the slot machines. They'd all pay out nine grand.

1:51:59And eventually the casinos got rid of it. Because otherwise every machine paying out nine grand here, then here, then this guy does it. And so they put him in prison any past way there. But that guy, but that guy's chops were every magician that ever saw him, which is rare. He didn't mix with a lot of guys, but he mixed with a few all blown away beyond. And it's just simply practicing something to the point where your hands are moving so quickly. And so smoothly and miss, is it misdirection as well? No, you could be burned. You could have cameras up. You could do, no, no, no, these moves are invisible.

1:52:42Wow. Yeah. How does one make a move invisible? I mean, is it just repetition or understanding what to do to make it invisible? I mean, I'll show you move. It's just invisible. Okay. I mean, so just all you have to do is if you want to take a card and you know, that's invisible, like no matter what you do, you can't see it. So, but it's just a simple move, you know, it's just you take a card and then you take the, you know, but that's invisible. But that's used in mansion. So for people that are just listening, you had a card that was a heart and the flip changes to a state. But but that's see that again.

1:53:26So you just take a card, you do like that and then you do that and then it's there. What the fuck? Yeah, but that, but what I'm saying is that's used by magicians. But imagine this beyond in a whole nother way that you cannot see anything. My friend, my, but my friend has been working on a move for years and years that he's never going to use that only I think one other person besides him in the world can do. And he, he was written up by all of every magician, not every magician, but lots of magicians were really upsetting. That move is impossible. There's no way to do it because and I saw, I watched it with my own eyes many times.

1:54:12And as soon as I pulled out my camera as I could I film it, he put the cards away. I never saw it again. Really? Can we film that? Can we film you doing that so we can play it back in slow motion? You just doing that? Yeah, well, right now in a little bit. In a little bit. Jamie, what's this little bit shit? What's he doing? Jamie's got two cameras on you now. He's hip to it. Oh, I see you couldn't see it. Yeah, I'll do it. I'll do it in a bit though. Okay. Why in a bit? Well, I'm sure I can do it now. Okay. But it's just a move. Hold on. It's actually my favorite move though. It's just this. You take a card and then you take the card and do that.

1:54:55It's just a move. Do it again? Yeah, but you take a move. You do that and you do like that. It's just a move. But I'm just saying like there's so many moves that are so relevant and that are so amazing if you want to be a card cheat where you do this with such precision that nobody could ever detect it. Have you ever done that playing poker just to blow people's minds? Yeah, when I was like 18, I went to one of my friends like college games and I cheated everybody just to see if I could. But then I returned all their money. So guys, I'm a magician. I just cheated everybody here. But I just wanted to prove and I told my friend whose house it was that the game was it.

1:55:34Thank God you did that. That must have been blown away though. Yeah. Most people say I'm watching. But also nobody knew that I was a magician. Right. Like all my friends growing up, only my best friends knew that I did magic. Even I went through the silly phase of like trying the ridiculous tricks like an appearing cane. I was like 11 and I did this thing where a cane appears and I'm like pop, pop my eye out. I had a word. Yeah, I was like, I scratched my corny. I couldn't use my, but. But that, I think that was part of the reason that I never went into like the allusions or the, you know, I didn't have magic kits at a deck of cards and then things that would you would find laying around.

1:56:16So I think part of the magic that I love is when you're using real things and real places and that is the magic, you know. And it's essentially learning a movement to get to it where you have to make it look as natural as possible. When you're doing that, it looks, it looks insane because it doesn't make any sense. Like I'm just seeing, you know, you're moving fast. You're just trying to guide just flying from London just to, he's like so incredible. And his name is Andrew Frost. He is amazing. And he, I just spent time with him just so I could sit there and have him tweak me because he's so brilliant.

1:56:57He has like that mindset of a card sheet, but he's a magician. But he's so precise. It's like I want you to watch everything that I do and I want you to pick apart everything. You know, because I also don't get the opportunities to sit there and do card tricks all day and all night because I do these other things. So it's like I lose time on doing this thing that I love doing because I'm like, oh, how can I learn how to do this thing with the snake? Right. But like these guys that just do this day and night are the best in the world. And they perform for magicians because a magician can appreciate the amount of time and work that goes into what they're seeing.

1:57:36Yeah. Nobody else, when you see, you just see a simple trick, right? But when I see a magician perform, I see how I'm like, oh, this guy's put 10 ,000 hours and on that move. How many hours do you think you put it on that simple trick? Oh, my, that's my whole life. It's been forever. That's my whole life. I was like, that's sorry. That started with my best friend, who's my mentor also that showed me the correct way to do it. And I was like 18 and then I think I've, I, he, I was with him at a card thing in Cleveland a week ago and he still corrected me. Wow. Yeah. Wow. After all these years, he's like, oh, I forgot to tell you need to do this.

1:58:16Oh, wow. But it's so strange. But that's like to me, it's a constant learning curve. Yeah. You know, and it's fun to discover all these secrets because they're not readily available. You have to search hard for the good stuff and then you have to put the work in. Yeah. And then me and my friend doesn't perform ever. He just loves the technical part of it. But then I have to now learn how to perform it. And then I go out and fail over and over and over and over and over and over and then eventually it starts to become decent and then eventually it becomes something I'm happy about. I mean, I'm never fully happy.

1:58:53I'm always like tweaking, tweaking, tweaking, you know. Did you film yourself initially to make sure that you couldn't see yourself doing this? No, I like to put myself in the hot seat and I like to just go out there perform it and then fail and then learn from that. But yeah, it would be better to set up a camera, film yourself, watch it a thousand times sure. In the beginning, did you have a lot of people that busted you? Like I see where you're doing. Well, the good thing about being magicians, nobody knows where it goes. So at the end, you can always curve and that's like jazzing. So even if you're off, you can still go.

1:59:27You didn't improvise. Yeah. Which is probably like fighting, right? Like you're in a weak position but you can. Right. You can adjust your device. Yeah. And that's what I think makes a magician really great as well. The ability to. Yeah, to just keep turning. Yeah. You know. Interesting. And if you have enough tricks up your sleeve, you can almost like have them believe that the first couple ones, well, it's all or it's all part. Yeah, the outcome. Yeah. Yeah. But I've fumbled before, but then I just keep going. That's like bombing on stage or like fucking a joke up and then. Yeah, but bombing on stages, that's where you learn.

2:00:09That's like where you learn the most. So every time I've been on stage and everything is like a disaster. That's always the biggest learning curve. And then usually I get energized and then you really. Yeah, most certainly. Yeah. That's what the comedy is well because you like you realize like God, it's sucked. I gotta get better. I gotta figure out what I did wrong and then never do that thing that I did wrong again and figure out a way to make it better. Right. And the way you play in little venues and you repetitiously do the comedy act and you keep the stuff that you like, you tweak it, you work on it for like a year.

2:00:40That's what I think a good magician does. Is the exact same formula is a comedy show. How many different card tricks do you think you know? I could go on forever.

2:00:56Is that sort of the foundation of your magic? It's card tricks. I just love the way they feel. It's like a digital fixation almost just the way they feel on the hand, the size, the shape. And this must be something you have to practice constantly. Yeah, it's day and night. That's all you do. You see, practice is still all the time all the time. Yeah. Wow, by yourself most of the time. Yeah, I mean, I'm holding cards all the time. Yeah, always. Do you ever leave the house without cards? No. No way. Never. Even if I came with you to do the cold plugs, the deck of cards would be right next to it.

2:01:34Really? Yeah, and I always still wake up with cards stuck all over my face, my neck, every all the time. Yeah. All the time. Wow. That's crazy. You have to be married. That's so nuts. You have to be married to card tricks. And that's the only way to be as good as you're at. I think it's also like the, you know, anybody could have access to a deck of cards and there's so much material and so much that you can learn. Yeah. I'm going to take some of that. Get some of that. Yeah. Thanks.

2:02:12Cheers, sir. Cheers. Yeah. Always good to see you. Yeah, you too. I'm always blown away. I'm always blown away because when I see you need to do card tricks, I always think next time I see him, I'm going to pay attention and I'm going to figure it out. Nope. Did you get it? I mean, I think I forgot to switch the camera, but I'm watching him do that in a side angle from zoomed in. Couldn't see it. Four times in a row. Couldn't see it. And even if you slow it down. No, I'm watching the guy. He just said Andrew Foss. I'm watching him. He's amazing, right? I'll show you. Yeah. He's amazing. I did it frame by frame.

2:02:45I kind of know where he did the one switch. He's incredible. We don't know where it went. Like he said, I'll do it. I'll just hear it. It's called too many aces for those epic archer stocks. Okay. So you have four aces. Probably assumed already. If you would cut me a queen, we would have ended up with like 12 aces. Hmm. Let's have a look. This guy is so good. Yeah. Just four aces. But having 12 aces, right, would be inconvenient because then you couldn't fit them inside the box. You couldn't do anything like that. Sure. And you end up with just the four aces. And the real thing is, is if you lose track of what aces come from what card, because then you can't put them back together and you end up with this useless deck of cards, which is just full of aces the entire time.

2:03:34And then, yeah, you just can't, can't put them back, which is why it's important to do this. What? What the whole thing? You could put them back inside the box and you don't get this useless. Yeah. What the? Did you catch? No, but by the way, that's the least of what he does. I mean, he is a phenomenon. But there's lots of guys, by the way, that are just mind blowing with their slight of hand. How many guys do that in poker games? Oh, it lots. It must be a lot of guys. A lot of guys get into the golf game. Yes. Of course. Yeah. You know that. I don't know that. I don't play poker. You know, but there's tons of change.

2:04:20I never asked something like that. I met a guy once. I was the first time that Mike Tyson, I went to his hotel at the Trump International. And I was doing magic to everybody, you know, because Muhammad Ali used to do magic and he taught Mike how to levitate it so like that. So Mike was kind of into the whole magic thing. And I started showing them all these things and a guy pulled me aside. And he was like, you know, I do some stuff too. And I was like, what do you do? He's like, well, I gamble. You know, sometimes I go out with these guys and I win a lot of money. And I was like, so what are you doing?

2:04:55And he said that when they're playing in New York, he would go to all the delis near where they were playing. And he would take the decks of cards that they sell at the deli. And he would swap them for identical decks of cards that were all completely marked but invisible. So now he would go into the game, let's say on Upper Park Avenue. And as they were about to play, it's a wait, I don't trust the house deck. Can you get new decks? And the person whose house it was would call one of the local delis. And the delis would come up with a bunch of decks. And now all of the decks that were sealed and everything, they would crack them open, put them into play and he knew every card.

2:05:34Oh my God. Yeah. Now, how does so much? By the way, and that's not even a slight of hand version of cheating. But think about a guy that's doing crazy, slight of hand. Right. Now, how does one mark? How are cards marked? There's a million ways. There's even something you could do with a red back card that's called DAB where you put some sort of like a red, waxy thing that's almost invisible. But if you have a contact lens over the pupil that has a little red spot in the middle, you could see it better. But there's lots of ways to mark decks. I mean, I'm not going to get into those, but there is a lot of easy ways to mark a deck.

2:06:15I'll show you after. OK. How can we not want to get into it now? No, no, no, no. I get trouble by it. Yeah, no, no. Oh, yeah. I understand. But I worked for two years on a system. So, these decks have a system that's amazing. Can I see that? Yeah. That was kind of like as a kid. I had one deck of cards. And when I would drop it on the subway, I'd have to pick it up and I would have like a, it doesn't feel right and I would carry it everywhere for years. And my dream was to one day have unlimited decks. And then when I started to make my own decks, that was kind of like highlight. You make your own decks of cards?

2:06:55Yeah, yeah. Are these yours? Yeah. Are these marks? These ones are mine that I have in my show in Vegas. I put my name on it so they keep it. And are these marked? Yeah, those ones are. But by the way, I never use it in magic. I just like it. I just like to work. Because when I was young, I would go to the magic store. Tannins. And we couldn't afford the marked decks, of course, but they looked really special. It was called Magic Sea through the card deck. And they were so expensive. So I started selling my decks of cards that I worked diligently on the system for years. And magicians would have them and not know that they were even marked.

2:07:32And then I would see magicians. I'd say, hold up the card and I would tell them what it was. So this is a marked deck right here. Can I open this? Yeah. Okay. And if I open this... Want me to open it? Here, I can open it. No, I don't trust you. I don't trust you. I'm fucking... You're gonna swap it out for something else. Oh, that's a good way. Yeah, that'll do. I'm trusting some of the fuck. The Google images from our cards is kind of interesting. There's a few fun ways they do it. Yeah, this one I think is very clever, though. Like this one's marked in the actual corner where you can see the art, I guess, is done that way.

2:08:07Oh, couldn't have done that. Yeah. Yeah. I don't like it, though, because those decks, I don't like if you leave them behind, they can see that there's something. This has the contact lens ones. When you put the lens on, you can like see it. Oh, yeah. Exactly. Wow. Luminous. Jamie, you're so good at finding everything. That is a nice way to find it. I think a lot of cards sheets are gonna be really answering everybody. You think so? Well, cards sheets. They're dirty people. They should be angry. Should be angry that we're onto them. Okay, I'm gonna see. If there's anything I can see. No, you won't see it.

2:08:38But take out the two jokers on the top and bottom. Why? Well, what is that? Is that a joker? Yeah, a joker, I designed. Me swallowing a sword. Oh, God. You could just take that out. Take those out. Yeah, and take out the top two cards. No. I don't trust you. No, you don't need to use water. Do you trust them? I trust them. You have a fuck. Okay. What is this? Nothing. What does it say? Well, it reads. Is it real? No, but then turn it upside down.

2:09:09What does that say? Magic. Yeah. Okay, so this is marked. Yep. But if you show it to me that way, I can see it. But if you hold it up the other way, then I can't. You know. There's no way I can see this. I need to study this shit. I think I can figure it out, Jamie. I mean, you have to know that. I don't know what he did. There's a lot of things. Well, I feel like there's a way I can like stare at it long enough. No, you're not. No way. Nope, you're not going to get it. You know, no, no, no, no, he looks like. Yeah, you're not going to get it. No. No chance. Zero chance. You did, though. No. I don't see a jack shit.

2:09:49But the way you could really look as you put in it. No, wait a minute. I said, the bottom is different. Nope. But the way you look at it is if you put two cards side by side, that, because otherwise you can't tell. Okay. I'm putting two cards side by side here. What do I notice? Let's define. By the way, even from here, I can see like the top card. This one right here? Yep, even from here. I don't see shit. Damn it. Yeah, you're not going to know. So you could tell just by looking at it. Like, what is this right here? Two of spades. Jesus Christ. How? And any, if you brought this to Vegas, any competent dealer would recognize that that's a mark card?

2:10:37I know. I don't think so. Because I brought it to Steve Forty, who's like the best card sheet in the position. He said it was a very advanced and really good system. What was this one?

2:10:54Queen of Hearts. Damn, son. How about this one here?

2:11:06Three of diamonds. But you know, I'm going to show it. No, but after I'll give you a little hint. After the show. No, I can't wait. No way. I'm telling everybody. I'm going to get on Instagram. You're going to know you're not. You absolutely won't. But you're going to like it. Oh, yeah, give him the deck. Really? Hold on a second. I'm going to bring this back. Well, here, this deck also here. Why do you do that? Let me give you one more. Just like you compared to something. By the way, I worked on this for years. Should I give one little hint? No. No, I'm going to give one little hint. What is the little hint?

2:11:46The ace is the easiest one to identify. The ace is the easiest one. Yeah, that's my only hint. I see nothing but patterns that look. I worked with my very good friend who's a great magician, Doug, on this for two years. Is it a magic eye? Yeah, yeah, yeah. My guy. My guy. No, I mean, like, is it a magic eye? Yeah, like, when you do it with your head. It becomes a thing. Are you on the pub? That has a little bit to do with it, by the way. All right. That Jamie, that's really good that you just got the... I have another deck as well, but it's in the car. But I have another deck. Jamie's also got a touch of the Tism.

2:12:28Yeah. He could see some things. You're seeing something? It's a spectrum. He's got a sense. He's got a different mind. He works different. He can see things other people can't see. I can't really unfocus my eyes, though. But, yeah, I don't know what it should be. By the way, as a magician, I never, ever use it in my car tricks. But it was just such a fun thing to work on. I mean, that one's a really hard one that you're looking at. They're all fucking hard. They look exactly the same. It's just so interesting to me that there's something that is so clear to you. That is... Yeah, but when I teach you this, you're gonna be like, whoa.

2:13:15It'll make perfect sense. And the podcast right now, just like, shit. You can cut it out or go in the other room just... No, I'm not doing this on camera. No way. Just trust you. I think we go in the other room and talk about it and come back. I actually, I'm sure you would, but still it. I would feel weird. Okay, well, I'm seeing something here. Hold on. I want to give one more hint, but I'm not going to. Give me that hint. Give me that hint. Don't do it. Come on, son. No, I'm not going to give the hint now. Give me that hint. I'm seeing something. I'm seeing something. What are you seeing? I'm seeing a disruption.

2:13:54There's something that's different about this. Yes. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I could see something. Yeah. God damn it. What is it? And you're going to lose it right away. I could see a very specific, there's very specific lines that go up and down like this. That I see that are clear. And if I look at a certain way, I could see it clearly. So you're blurring your vision. You can blur your vision. I thought I had it. And I was like, ah, this can be a diamond. Oh, and I see lines at the bottom. So I see something. Not at the bottom. Two. No, not at the bottom. What is this? No. Five. Wrong. Wrong.

2:14:34I thought it was a diamond. It's not. It's spayed. Okay. I'm an idiot. No. No, it's an advanced. I think it's pretty advanced. Oh, it's fucking advanced. Shit. I am. I'm doing all kinds of weird things in my eyes. I'm trying to pick up patterns. But there are different. There's some different 100%. There's a different pattern to this one on my right than there is the one on my left. That's true, but it's almost imperceptible. But sure, if you can blur your vision and then. But there's clear lines on this that go up that are slightly different. They go at an angle. There's two very clear lines on the one.

2:15:12This one on my right hand that don't exist on the one on my left. And you can see it without your glasses on? Yes. I can see it better with my glasses on. I'm going to get killed in the magic world, by the way. I see this is very clear pattern on this one too. It exists. It doesn't exist on this one. But God, you have to look at it. It's so weird to see it. But I do see it. But you know, like a magic kind of abstractly, I can see that pattern. Wow. What is it? Wow. Lots of magic is like logic puzzles. So it's like you have to break something apart in every single possible direction to figure out a solution.

2:16:00God, it just makes me so, I mean, I don't play cards, but if I did, I'd be so uncomfortable. Because I'd be like, how do I know? How do I know that I'm, again, fucking Rob? There's a lot of guys at cheek. I would imagine. You think like in a lot of these high level poker games, you get a lot of dorks that have a lot of money and they want to be high -roars. Yes. And they get robbed by people. Oh, come on. I mean, you've heard about this. Oh, yeah. People get in trouble for it all the time. Yeah. Didn't Phil Ivey go to a casino and he found a flaw in the way the cards were printed that nobody could see.

2:16:35I heard something like that and they didn't want millions of dollars and they wanted to take the money back. Well, how could they say that though? What he didn't do anything wrong? Just because you saw something? That seems insane. Did he tell people? Did he say he didn't say anything? So how the fuck did they know? They said that he was able to detect a slight misprint where the pattern was slightly off. He could detect it and then use it to play. God, your vision must be so important for a player like that. Like if you have a like, uh, if you're slowly getting mad. Yeah, but I think you can adjust.

2:17:07No, I think you can adjust. I think you can adjust. I think you can solve around it. Yeah, but I mean, as your vision goes shitty, as you get older, like it would be harder, right? Yeah. You have to get in contact. Sure. Yeah. This show is boring as fuck because I am just staring at cards. It's never, I'm never going to figure it out. But I do detect that there's something going on. I can see when I blur my eyes, I can see that there's discernible patterns that are in certain cards that aren't in other cards. If I do teach it to you, you cannot. I won't tell anybody except Brian Calon. He tells everybody.

2:17:47No, I won't tell anybody. I promise. I promise. I'll tell Jamie. But he'll tell you. No, no, I'm going to teach both of you. I'm not going to isolate Jamie. Jamie Paul. He's not going to tell anybody. Plus Jamie will figure it out anyway. I'll find the secrets. Yeah, yeah. You think so? Yeah, Jamie can find any. So you didn't have a podcast to prove. No, he'd find it. Yeah, he would find it. He would find it. Yes. I'm sure. Interesting. I definitely see differences in the lines when you look at a specific way. I just don't know what I'm looking for or what I'm seeing. By the way, the deck is called the white lions.

2:18:21Ooh. Why is that? Ah. Those are white lions in here? Nope. Nope. Nothing to do with it just on the box. Anyway, what does that have to do with it? I'm not telling anybody. That's the best direction. It's not to do it in lines. Oh, wrong. You are. We'll discuss it. I'm not going to discuss it in that. I'll put it for a lion in here now. I'm not going to say a lion. What am I going to say? How many different? This coffee is good, by the way. Black rifle. It's the best. How many different kinds of marked cards are there? There is so many. Yeah. Yeah. But those are used by cheats. Right. Not really by magicians.

2:19:04They're not necessary in magic. God, how does someone know? If you're a person who's like, I enjoy playing cards. You're going to get fucking robbed, right? There's also people that can mark the deck as they play. Oh, of course. How? I'm not telling. Oh, come on. No, I can't. But there's people that as they're playing, they mark the whole deck, but it's imperceptible. I believe you, but I don't want to. You know what I'm saying? I do believe you, because I've seen you do things that I can't believe you're doing, and you're just doing them right in front of me. But these guys are cheap. It's very different because they work on three moves for years and years and years, and they are flawless.

2:19:47So if you're going to like, just a local guy, Andrew Frost, his technique and the stuff that he's doing, I think it's card sheet level. Right. And he's doing it on camera. And he's doing it where you're like zooming in, slowing it down. You still can't see it. Yeah. And it's a way better in person. I can imagine. But it's just, it seems like I would never want to play cards with people. I get fucked. Unless I was just covering my cards like a fucking person. Yeah, there's no way to tell. No way. And a good cheat won't win. Oh, like a pool hustler. We'll have that person win. Oh, yeah, good cheats not going to win.

2:20:27Oh, it was every time. Mm. And that guy's a bad player. Let's have a big gap. Interesting. Like a pool hustler. Yeah. You lose a little bit. And then you know, you always lose. You miss the ones in the while you win, but that guy wins. Oh, so that guy's your partner. Yeah. Interesting. So how does anybody not suspect him? Well, he wins just enough. Mm. It's not like a obvious thing. Like a pool hustler. In Vegas, behind every table, it says, we have the right to refuse anybody for any reason. Because if they suspect that you're cheating somehow, they just boot you. Well, Vegas will do that even if you're not cheating.

2:21:09No, even if you make two small bets in them one big bet, they're like, oh, watch that guy. Really? Yeah, of course. But if you just a psycho and just like, I feel like a big bet's going on. Yeah, but they don't need that. They, you know, they need time. They need people. They're going to play long and steady because that's how they make their money. Dan White is a crazy blackjack player. Like crazy. Like what? Last time I saw him, we left. It was like two o 'clock in the morning. He was down $600 ,000 playing blackjack. He won it all back and won $600 ,000. Wow. He played to like six o 'clock in the morning.

2:21:43Yeah. If you have the backing, like if you could back yourself over and over, then that also helps. Meaning if you know, if you're not afraid to lose a certain amount of money because you know that you can keep backing yourself, that's a big advantage. But he's busting. He's gone. He's lost millions. Yeah, I'm sure. Like one millions as well. Yeah. But he's a real junkie. It's wild to watch. Is it a crazy look they get in their eyes? Yeah. It's so terrifying. Because you like, you see the numbers like, oh my god, this is so much money. Like what are you doing? You have to play. You have to play as though there's no money.

2:22:15You have to play the exact way you would play if you were playing for free. I guess. Yeah. You have to. Well, I guess when you're as rich as he is as well, like you really have to play for a lot of money just to get that juice to feel it. Like for 50 bucks for him, this is nothing. Doesn't mean he has to play for 50 ,000. 50 ,000 hands like this real money. Now we're playing real money. And then when he wins, he's probably still like, oh, that wasn't enough. You know, football player Taylor Lewin was with him and Taylor, he listens to Dana and Dana like Betz forum. And we were talking about it.

2:22:47We went to Shane Gillis' comedy show. And then afterwards, he's like, we're going to go bet with Dana White. We're going to go gamble and make oh my god, I'm going. Let's go. I want to see this because these guys are psychos. And I always knew that Dana bet crazy numbers. So we went down there and he was down $120 ,000 in the first five minutes. And I was like, oh, it was the anxiety. You're seeing that. Watching it's your fucking freaking out. And then he won and he was up 60 ,000. He quit. So I think he won like 65 ,000 or something like that. But it's just like watching him down $120 ,000 in five minutes.

2:23:19It's like, oh my god, my hands are clammy. I'm like, fuck this. This is so crazy. I got really lucky ones at the, what was it? The palms, the fatitas, the palms. Yes, I was filming my TV show. And then at the end, I was like, oh, let's go play some crabs. And they had a bet on the crabs table, which was called the fire bet. And you have to open and close each number before you crap out. Right? I don't know how to play crabs. So you have to hit like a fourth and you have to close a four before you get a seven. And then you have to hit a five and close a five and a six and an eight and a nine and a 10 before you throw a seven.

2:23:56So it's very unlikely that you're going to do that with all of those numbers. So it's a great bet for the casino because nobody ever hits it. Right. And I was playing at the low stakes table throwing the dice, but I said, oh, can I, can I throw dice? And they were like, no. And then the pit boss, she called upstairs. David Blaine wants to throw dice. Can you give approval? And they said, yes. So she said, OK, take your shirt off and joke. Ha, ha, ha. And then, but yeah, pull your sleeves up. You can throw the dice and keep your hand, you know, not out of the table. And I just, for the hell that put a bet down for everybody at the table, including the dealers.

2:24:33So I put like a bet that they would all win. I think like five grand or 10 grand if I hit. So I was throwing the dice. I didn't, nobody even, the fire bet never came out at the palms ever. And it's thrown the dice on it. It was ours. And by the way, I think the Super Bowl champion table was over there. And they were all screaming and going crazy at the craps table next to us. The high stakes won, right? Keep throwing and all of a sudden, the dealers says, I mean, the pit boss says, stop. And I was like, what? Because you know, I was winning on hard eight. All these double fours, all these bets are like, and they said, uh, you just hit the fire bet.

2:25:15And everybody at the table is like, what does that mean? They said everybody at the table, just one, five or I think 10 ,000. And all of a sudden, everybody started jumping up and down. They go crazy. But it was like pretty amazing. They had to stop the casino, that whole area they shut down. They had to review for two hours to make sure I wasn't switching dice or doing anything funny. And then everybody had to fill out a W nine and then everybody got paid. But it was pretty amazing. And Stan, you from playing or they let you keep playing. No, after that, I was done. But they, it was two hours of dice roll.

2:25:52But then they removed that bet from the palms. I think that's what I was told. Wow. Yeah, I was got lucky trust you. I don't know. I got lucky. I don't fuck. I believe it was. I did. I promise I got lucky. I'm telling you it was like a sure. I'm telling you sure you did. I did. But that's the problem with someone who's so good at slight of hand. Like you could do things with cards in front of people and they go, no, he wasn't cheating. It was a spade and then also, it was a diamond. But you obviously did do slight of hand when you did that trick. Right. How do I know that you can't do that with dice?

2:26:29You surely could. Well, I can't, but there are people that can't. Must be people. I told you about last time. Yeah, but not me. Because that's not your area of expertise. Yeah, and cards have been 10 hours a day throwing dice against the crap stable. But if you went to a card game, people would immediately be like, what? Yeah, there's a magician. It's a loose loose because if you win, you cheated. If you lose, you're a bad magician. So I just don't play. But I would be so tempted to just see if I could get away with it. Well, I didn't. I was like 18. Yeah. I would be so tempted just to like to see if I could get away with it under the scrutiny of all the cameras in Vegas.

2:27:07Not not trying to rip them off. If I would like to do it, like say, hey, I'm going to rip you off. Please watch this. You don't have to get me to mind. Yeah, you could do that. I would like to see that. But even just card can't, you know, people at count cards. They banned Dana White from the palms because he won too much money playing Blackjack. And so he pulled the UFC from the palms. Really? Yeah. Will see counting cards. Who? Just playing. Really? Yeah. He's won like $7 million in a night. Wow. I fuck you. You're banned, which is crazy because like if you lost $7 million, they'd be fine with it.

2:27:43It'd be thrilled. But you can win $7 million and you can lose $7 million. I would totally get it in the class. Moscasinos, the prophetess from slot machines. Oh, yeah, I heard that too. Yeah, which is crazy because that's just rigged. That's just a fucking computer. It's just tempting. But that's also this weird human instinct to just keep pressing the button and hoping it wins. Try it again. Try it again. You know, I mean, it's not choice. It's not you're not making decisions. You're just pressing buttons. You know what I mean? I feel like scratching six numbers. Yeah. Which is also super addictive.

2:28:17Yeah. Yeah. It's just so fascinating to me that people can do things right in front of your face. And they tell you they're doing it. You still can't see it. Like what the fuck is happening here? Yeah. What's you?

2:28:32Yeah. The funny thing now though is it's very different because in the old days, not everybody had a video camera. Right. So you could just do whatever and not worry about the angles. This. That now when you do magic, you have to be hypersensitive because everybody's filming from everywhere now. Right. So, you know, it changed the way you could perform. You have to be better. Not just better, but you have to think about things that you've never thought about. Right. Because the human eye can't see it. Right. Human eyes worse than the first cell phone camera ever. It's just so low resolution. The image is upside down.

2:29:09You have a big optical nerve in the middle. So the eye doesn't really see the brain paints a picture. Right. The video camera records, then you can see. And so if anybody's doing something that has a flaw, it's caught. Right. So it changes. It, it, it changed magic a lot. But yet you could still do it. Yeah. You just have to, you have to think about all angles at all times and be hyper aware of everything from behind, from here, from here, here, here, anything. Well, you do is so interesting because you do that and then you do things like kissing cobras, which is like, there's no trick there. That is not a trick.

2:29:49That is learning. Yeah, but learning from an expert that does it over and over. So there is a technique to it. I'm just on a rush. Yeah, but it's not a trick. Like you fucking kissed a cobra. It's not a rubber cobra. It's not. You know what I'm saying? Like two by the way. Yes. Two different ones. Yeah. Listen, David, it's always a thrill to talk to you. You're a fucking amazing person. And what you do is so fascinating to me. I don't want to learn it, but I'm so blown away. I want to end this podcast because I want you to show me how to count cards. And tell me when is this show come out? Well, then the National Geographic, I think it's in like six months or something.

2:30:26We're still filming episodes. Nothing is dangerous is the kissing the cobra anymore, hopefully. And yeah, I think it'll be, I think it's interesting. Well, just the clips you show me are amazing. It's crazy. Which I mean, I want to give it all away, but you showed me a lot of wild shit. And it's fucking insane. And please tell me when it comes out. By the way, you didn't come see my show. I didn't come see your show. I didn't know when it was. In Vegas. Well, you didn't tell me. Well, you have to come at one point. When is it? It's at the win. And you have to see it. When is it? How often do you do it?

2:30:55It's only like a few days a month because it's, it has this magic and everything in it, but it has the physical stuff as well. So I can't overdo it. But that show isn't going to last for a long time because physically it's not possible. So you really should come. So when are you doing it again? Are you there on November, December 15th? No, it's like end of the month. Always end of the month. Yeah, but it's a few days per month. So you, okay, you should really see it. You tell, okay, there it is. It's up there. So I will figure out when I can get to Vegas and I will do it. Yes, I'll try to do it in line.

2:31:30But it's a show that I can't keep doing for much longer. I'm sure I really would love it if you did come. I got to hope I don't go to one with it. It's very possible. I don't want to know, but I know, but I know, but that's the part that keeps on coming. We'll figure it out. I will come. Okay. So then we'll discuss this. Okay. All right. Thank you, brother. Thank you very much. Thank you. You're welcome. All right. Bye, buddy.