#2082 - Dr. Debra Soh

25:59Stay tuned to see what Optimus will do next. Yeah, I'll tell you what Optimus Gen 2 next is going to come out of an aircraft carrier. Thousands of them with machine guns. No, it's dancing. It's going to dance after it kills everybody. Yeah, I hope they're friendly. They're not going to me. They're not going to have any need to be. There's another video of the robots shooting at the cyber truck. I don't know if you saw that one. That was pretty terrifying. Is that a real two? Oh god, let's see that. Get the video of the robot shooting at the cyber truck. That cyber truck is impressive. It's dope.

26:32That thing is cool. It's very impressive. My friend Eddie got one. He said he was just going to have it and barely drive it. He got a low serial number one. He's a local businessman. He said it's fucking insane. I'm driving it every day. It's amazing. I would live in that truck. Zero to 60 in under three seconds. It's nuts. It looks like the future. It looks really, really cool. Oh yeah, have you seen the matte black one? No. I don't know if someone put a wrap on it or if they make it matte black. I can see the robot shooting at it, but just regular people doing it. A cyber truck bullet test. Yeah, it really works.

27:11Look, I shot an arrow into it. It destroyed my arrow. See if I can find it. I think if you go on Twitter, we can talk about something else. Yeah, well, either way, it's dope. But the funniest one was it towed a Porsche 911 faster than a Porsche 911. It's not. It really is the future. Okay, so why I wanted to talk to your audience is I'm curious to hear about their experiences with sex and dating today in terms of some hearing so much about when you look at the media coverage and just here we go. Here it is. This is not real. It's not fake. Okay. I feel a little better now than it's definitely fake.

27:50Yeah, those are not real robots. Come on. How do you know? Because that's just watch how they move. That's now how they move. But they're moving pretty similar. No. No. No. So when Elon post this. Why didn't post this someone else. Oh, okay. Yeah, this is a little kind of fake. I think I'm going out though. So yeah, there's so much use coverage about how dating and sex is terrible for people nowadays. But I want to hear from actual people. Is this what their experience has been in what way for people who are happily married or in relationships? What's working for them? Because my goal with this next thing that I'm working on is to try and find solutions for people and come at it from a scientific basis and to not have it be ideological.

28:35Very much like the end of gender was based in science. Which made me some, you know, not very many friends, but that's okay. Yeah, that you stuck your neck out with that. Yeah. It was fun. By telling the truth. Which is very strange. I think my take on it is that every generation experiences new difficulties. And this generation is experiencing probably the most dynamic difficulties. First of all, because of options, you know, I have friends that are on the dating apps. And if they're on a date with someone and they're bored, you know, they just start swiping. No. Just start looking for new people.

29:20While on the date? Sure. People are always checking their goddamn phones. You know, it's like commonplace to be sitting. One of the things I love about a podcast is that it's one of the rare times in life that I can sit across from someone for hours. And other than like looking stuff up on the screen, like we don't, there's no checking of phones. There's nothing like that. It's just conversation. Yeah. That's weird in this day and age. It's very rare to sit down for three hours of someone and just drink coffee and just talk. Yeah. And I think everyone is so distracted that every conversation can only get to a certain surface level.

29:57And if you have so many options, if you're a young woman and you're dating this guy and he seems a little boring or maybe doesn't have the ambition that you're looking for or whatever it is, you've got 100 dudes who are hitting you up on the dating apps. Like, why would you take a chance? Also, it probably prevents people from getting in bad relationships because you have options. But, you know, what point in time do you decide that like, you know, maybe I need to not do this anymore? Like maybe this is not the most effective way to meet a life partner. This episode is brought to you by Buffalo Trace Distillery.

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31:24It's authentically American representing uncompromising quality for the rugged, the powerful, and the passionate. Tap the banner to learn more or visit buffalotracedustillery .com. That's buffalotracedustillery .com. Distilled, aged, and bottled by Buffalo Trace Distillery, 90 proof, Franklin County, Kentucky, Buffalo Trace, American, family -owned, independent, and perfectly untamed. Because it gives you, there's that ancestral mismatch because never before have we ever been in a situation where you're sitting in one place and you have hundreds of potential partners within your reach. But at the same time, those hundred potential partners aren't actually potential partners.

32:11They're just pictures of people, they're avatars because you don't actually know that you're going to like that person. You might not even meet them in real life if you do match or you do talk on there. So it's this perception that we have so many more options than we do. But with your friends, I mean, how are they feeling? Are they feeling frustrated? Do they enjoy it? Is it like exciting for them? There's a mixed review. Like my friend Adam met a girl on a social media on a dating app. And they both had never been on a dating app before. They both tried it and they both met each other and they both got off the app.

32:43I'm like, that's perfect, best case scenario. And he's been with her quite a while. She seems lovely. She's very fun. He seems like he's having a great time. So he got lucky. You know, it worked. That's really cute. Sometimes it worked. But also sometimes it's just chaos. And sometimes you meet people and they're insane and they're on Adderall and they're fucking bouncing off the walls. And you know, it's so hard to know. And also when you're dating someone, you're dating their projection for a long time. It takes a while. You have to see them. Like you have to see them in adversity. You see their character tested.

33:17You have to see how they handle stress. You have to see so many. It takes so long to find out what a person really is like. Unless you're lucky. Unless you find some like very transparent, very open person who's just like self -actualized, successful, doing the thing they enjoy doing. And you find them very attractive. What are the odds of that? Like you do like so many things have to go right with that person's trajectory for them to wind up at your, you know, at a table across a restaurant when you're both 29 or whatever. And you're trying to figure it out. Like what the fuck are we doing? It's incredibly difficult.

33:58I always tell people try to meet people in the world. Just try to like actually just meet people. Yeah, they'll probably better. But then who are you meeting? You're meeting people that are drunk at bars. Like, you know, I mean, maybe you could go to a rock climbing class and find someone's interested in doing things that you like to do. Obviously, it's adventurous. Yeah, hobbies. But more options than ever before, but also new challenges that, you know, when I was a young man, you have to go somewhere and meet people. Yeah, I actually leave your house. Yeah. And generally people were very unimpressed with you.

34:36You couldn't like have these filtered photos of you and picture of you in front of a Mercedes and pictures of you on a yacht and all these different things that people like to do now to make themselves look far more interesting than they probably really are. I remember you, I think you posted an image of your face, but it was through a whole bunch of filters. And you look like this really pretty brunette girl. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Give me hair, give you lipstick and plump lips. It turned me into a hot woman. And it's just a filter. And there are so many people using various levels of those filters.

35:14I know guys that use them. Yeah, I was wondering, what is it? Why do you guys do that? Because they're bitches. But do they think they look better? Because women like wrinkles, women like you looking your age. I don't know what they're, I think they're, they're insane. I mean, I don't know what it is. I don't understand it. Or maybe they spend so much time on these platforms that you don't realize. I do think that when people spend so much time on there, they lose track of reality. Sure. And they start to think that's what they see is reality. And so if they don't look like that, even if you as a man have a couple wrinkles, maybe think they need to get rid of it.

35:53Yeah, that's a good point. I don't know. You know, I think it's social media captures absolutely a real thing. And just like the environment that you exist in the social world, like the group of your friends, sort of dictates how you think about things and how you behave and how you communicate. I think that's also the case if most of your interaction with human beings is this surface level digital interaction that's enabled by social media. I think you just get a very distorted understanding of what it's like to be a person. And it's leading us in a sort of like an unhuman direction. And that's the thing that disturbs me the most about the trajectory of the human race.

36:38It's like it's moving us even though we're more connected than ever before digitally. We're more disconnected than ever before emotionally. And with these things like AI and virtual reality and VR headsets and augmented reality, it's just it's really spooky to me because I feel like it's an inevitable abandon. Of the human race. See, this is how I feel and this is what I find interesting about it because like with sex robots when I mean the first time I heard of a sex robot was probably maybe 10 years ago and it was this video and a bunch of people I know some graduate school sent me this video because I knew what I was studying sex.

37:18And it was I don't know if you either you Jamie had seen this video, but it went viral and it was this early version of a sex robot, but it was like the silicone face silicone face with a wig and she also she was eating a banana, but she was actually eating a banana. And it was basically like this head attached to a broomstick and at a sheet over it. And so you couldn't see the rest of the robot. You just saw the face of it, but then the manufacturer shows you it's just like a broomstick. So what I thought was interesting is that even though it looks so hilariously bad that there was obviously a market for it because so many people were interested in looking at this video and also that people were buying this product.

38:00But now you fast forward I think it was like five years ago there's a huge. I would say not moral panic, but people there's a lot more discussion about it. They said the robots are coming. I don't think the technology was quite there yet. I wrote about it quite a bit at the time. And now they're saying it probably another year or two is going to be really coming in in terms of the popularity that these robots are going to be incorporated into every day life in some cases. Because when I think of social media, the internet AI, like you said, is becoming so mainstream and so ubiquitous. What's going to happen when we have these robots that are now being integrated into human life and what happens when the technology does get so good that you know they are more human like and they are able to meet people's emotional needs and maybe even physical needs.

38:48What's going to happen to us then? Yeah, we're going to stop breeding. Maybe that's the AI's plan. It's to not exterminate the human race, but to give them options so they just completely stop reproducing. Make the options far more attractive. And in a way we've kind of done that like with video games. And video games and just being online, I mean, I'm sure you've seen the statistics of how many people are single today and how many men have gone like more than a year without any sex. Yeah, at the stats here, it's like 30 % of male millennials and 20 % of women. Wow. Yeah, that's a lot. It's crazy.

39:28And what is taking the place of them going out and trying to find a mate? What is it? Well, it's the internet. It's video games. It's being constantly stimulated by this artificial realm that you exist in when you're playing Call of Duty. And it's interacting with people only online and not having to go out to have your just some sort of intellectual or some sort of a social discourse connection. Yeah, if I failed in your life, but it's only through this weird surface way. Do you think that AI video games that not avoidance of in -person connection, but that fulfillment of connection through online means, do you think that's going to become a replacement for real life interaction eventually?

40:21It will for a lot of people. Yeah, I think there's going to be people that reject it. There's going to be people that enjoy going outside and it's going to be, you know, it is now. It's a thing where people post their social media, they're out hiking, and they're giving people advice like, hey, you know, put your phone down and go out of spirits, the real world. But in a lot of cases, it's falling on deaf ears because it's not as fulfilling for people that are, you know, very uncomfortable with social situations now. And I think people, young people in particular are more and more uncomfortable than ever before in those types of situations because they don't have any experience in them anymore.

40:59And they're just most of the time they're not interacting with people. My real fear, my genuine fear. And I don't even know if it's a fear. My concern, let me say that, is that we're going to go extinct, like that we're going to be replaced by an artificial life form. And I think that is probably what we do. I think it probably exists elsewhere in the universe as well that we find out that the confines of biological beings and the limitations of their ability to evolve physically, they're so slow to adapt, you know, to go from a single -celled organism to a professor at Harvard, is a long fucking slodge through evolutionary history.

41:52It took a long time to get to this point, but to go from an Atari Pong computer to artificial general intelligence is only a few decades. It's very quick. And when that does happen, and when you see these robots, but now these robots are not this generation, but five generations later, or maybe AI, figures out all the problems with these robots and makes X Machina. When you get like that, who's the woman, the really hot lady? Alicia, Vic Lander. Yeah, well, you get one of those. That was an amazing movie. Amazing movie. So scary. So scary. And I think that's common. I mean, I think when that movie came out, that was like sort of like abstract.

42:35Like, oh yeah, that's not really going to happen. But now, my - That's what I used to think. I thought, no, this is like people are, it's overblown, but I don't know, no. I don't know now either. I think it's happening. I think it's going to happen. And I think that's what the human race does. And I think that's why we have this insatiable thirst for technological innovation. It's like literally hardwired into us to build something better. So I mean, I would love to talk to more people who are in the industry working on this stuff, because I know many people they're doing it secretly and hiding, because there is so much stigma around doing anything with an application to sex or sexuality.

43:11So people I've talked to who work in technology, they will usually have one business that is doing really well that's forward -facing. And then they'll usually use that same technology in the sexuality capacity, but that side of things they don't really advertise. And, you know, they don't really talk too much about it unless it's with someone like me. They know they trust me and they know that, you know, I'll talk to people off the record, even if they prefer that confidentiality. But I'm just curious to understand, you know, what is it like working in that industry and what direction is the technology going in?

43:39Because I consider myself to be pretty open -minded, and I just want to understand what's actually happening and what's going to be the result of that. Because you see people who are really upset a couple years ago saying like the robots are going to increase sexual violence, they're going to make people objectify women. And I do think that for people who already have those views about women, you know, maybe they might be a little bit more not so nice. But I don't think the average person is going to be turned into this horrible monster because of this technology. But, you know, now it's becoming so mainstream.

44:11I don't know. I'm always open to changing my mind as well. So I'm curious to hear what people think about it. Well, don't you think that just like social media kind of stunts people's ability to communicate in real life that sex robots will stunt people's ability to have a real meaningful romantic relationship with someone? I think if you've never been with someone or if you are particularly selfish, probably. Yeah. Because I previously thought most people will prefer a real life person to a robot. And I also thought the technology is so far off that like the early prototypes of these robots were not really that convincing.

44:50We'll say. So I didn't think that we'd get to a point where it would be comparable, but we are getting there. What is the state of the art of sex robots in December of 2023? Can we see something? What does it look like? I mean, they look like pretty good physically. They look, I mean, they're obviously not made of human flesh, but they look pretty similar to a human being. And you can customize it. You can change various parts pretty much any part of the body. You can make it exactly what you want, which I understand why some people find that offensive because they're saying a woman is not just an amalgamation of parts that you pick and choose as to your liking.

45:26I totally get that. Yeah, but that's not a really, really a woman. I mean, that's like saying, you know, oh, the car is not an amalgamation of parts. You shouldn't be able to pick the wheels like what? But I fucking car. That's not a real woman. That's a robot. Like, at what point, unless it gets to a person, you know, or someone's comparing their partner to a robot or a doll. Oh, right. Right. That's that's gross behavior. Well, it's also what's going on with young kids. They're comparing themselves to people that are using filters and thinning their waist and widening their hips and doing all these things with apps that are not representative of most biological human beings.

46:05And, you know, that's what Jonathan Hatt talked about. It's causing all this self harm and disdain. It's like it's a weird place we're in. That's never been really traversed before with this human society as far as we know has never gone through anything like this before. I was reading a statistic yesterday that one in 10 adolescents has considered suicide, which is that that's terrifying. That's really, really sad. Wow. What it used to be? I'm not sure. I'll find out. So what is like, what's the company? What is one company that has the state of the art sex robots? We can look it up. Can I reveal it to you at a later date?

46:42Because I know I know you do, but there's one company that I was talking to quite like I knew quite well, but they've since gone under because of the stigma. They were being harassed. The family was being harassed. So they said, we're not making these anymore. Oh, well, they're not around anymore. So let's talk about what if I show you one without we just don't say the name. Okay. Let's do that. Yeah. Let's do that. Okay. Okay. I think that's silly, but let's go. Okay. Yeah. This is a robot. Yeah. Dude, Jesus. Yep. If they have some sort of AI in it, it says that. Feel connected with sense. I would.

47:14Ex -mobile app. Oh, this is a real doll. So they used to have those real dolls. And they used to just be. Silicon, right? They were just like, it's still the same thing. It's still the same thing, but now it talks. Yeah. And how much does it do?

47:35I don't. Go full -screw.

47:42I'm not showing this on the air. No. Okay, go. Yeah, I get it. It's a little graphic.

47:50So we're looking at body parts. I don't know. I am Harmony. I am St. Lana. We are part of a real doll X. You think it's where they give them stripper names? We are an alien driven robotic dolls. And they're here to become your perfect companion. Whoa. Our time together will be magical. You have never met anyone like us before. We have a remarkable unprecedented features like a modular head system that allows us to create a multitude of expressions. We blink. We move. We speak. And redo the tool. Just for you. Our faces can easily be swapped to accommodate your desires. My lips and mechanisms allow me to interact with you verbally.

48:36Our bodies are skillfully and carefully crafted bound to the most delicate details. What if I told you that I could feel you? That's right. With sensory upgrades, I can sense I will be able to react to your every touch. It's so funny because as a former sex research that this doesn't have any effectiveness at all. It has never been possible. But are they moving? This is the thing. Those were all just stationary. Yeah, currently they're stationary. So they're stationary and they just talk? It says there's some sort of articulation. Well, they're now like getting up and walking. They're articulating.

49:15But I think they will be able to move on their own in the coming years. Right. Because this used to be just a doll. And now it moves around a little. The neck moves. The neck. Articulating neck, real doll can turn left, right, up and down. The body, the real skillfully crafted, finest details, all those not equipped with animatronic parts yet. It can be positioned and moved in the hundreds of positions. So the bodies can't move yet, but the heads can move. But that's just a matter of time. Right? Didn't used to be the bodies or the heads didn't used to move. They used to be a blow up doll. Yeah.

49:48Like that company has been doing quite a bit. It's pretty cool. Yeah. Weird. I mean, you guys should get one for the studio. Yeah. No. Not for you. I meant just to like hang on. Well, I even hang around. It would be fucking great. It's gone one day. We're just going to wonder if we took it. Yeah. What if it smells weird? Like someone do something to this. How much do they cost? A couple thousand dollars. I think depends on how advanced you want to be. Eight grand. Up to up to up to up to up to 600 to eight grand. I'm seeing a set of $600 to eight grand. Yeah. Oh, what's the upgrade? What do you get?

50:23More articulation. More voices. You can get cheaper models, but they're not as high quality. Okay. So that's the state of the art. Essentially. Yeah. Well, 600 isn't even a full thing. It's just like a full set. Just the head. Not just a flashlight version. Oh, okay. So at one point in time, we're probably going to be looking at someone that looks like that lady from XMAC. And that's not going to. That is a sex robot. And probably knows how to manipulate you and play games with you and excite you and taunt you. Whoo. Yeah. It's going to be great. Well, I think that's a pacifier. And I think that's just one step on the way to our integration with artificial intelligence.

51:07And that we're going to be unrecognizable. And I don't think it's going to take very long. I think in 50 years, like biological humans are going to be a joke. I really do. I'm curious what you teach your daughters about this stuff. Because like I said with Gen Z, especially, you know, there's so many statistics about how much time they're spending online. And the fact that most of their relationships are online. And I'm not saying this to try and denigrate Gen Z because I think every generation, like I'm a millennial. Every generation tends to make fun of the younger people. Of course. So I don't necessarily think there's, you know, I don't fault young people for changes that are happening culturally.

51:45And I'm sure in some ways, like what they're doing is better than what millennials are doing. But I'm curious, like for you as the father of three girls, especially when you see so much sex in our culture. And there's such a pressure, I think, for young women to feel like they need to look a certain way or behave a certain way. What do you teach them about how to behave, but present themselves? And then also what they put on social media? Yeah, that's a good question. The social media thing, it's really, you got to, the real problem would be if they were in a peer group that was doing, like say if you had like a 10 -year -old, that was in a peer group, and all of a sudden the other girls in the peer group are dressing and behaving like they're 18 or 19.

52:28And there is a lot of pressure, I think, on young girls, especially as they start to hit puberty, to try to move faster and quicker. And you see yourself, you're 13, and then you see a girl's 19, like, God, I wish I was a woman. Like she's a woman, why can't I be a woman? And then you want to start dressing and behaving like women. I mean, I see that a lot from their old friends in Los Angeles, which I think is much more accelerated there. Because it's just overall, it's more of a vapid culture and it's more... Try to look centric. ...look centric, and also there's a high priority on social media now, and social media interactions.

53:09And you know, there was, who is it that was in here who was talking about how many kids today, like that they main when they ask them what do you want to be for when you grow up? Oh, they want to be an influencer. Yeah. Because it seems like what an easy path. It seems like there's like, eat food and go on vacations and talk in your veins. Looks natched. Yeah, yeah, looks natched and you get famous. And then you make money that way. It's just a lot of... I have to say for them, it is a lot of work though, if they're good at it, that you have to be smart to know how to brand yourself and to put the time in.

53:41But I know what you mean in that. I think women, I mean, I would say even for myself as a woman, you see these images sometimes you have to remind yourself that this is a business, and that people are changing their photos before they post them, no one just post something that they randomly took out of the blue, right? So, yeah, that's interesting. I just imagine, I really, my heart goes out to young girls today because I think the people will say, you know, there are beauty magazines in the past and advertising and that was, that was pressure that was placed on young women. But I think nowadays it just seems like it's so much more accelerated.

54:12And trying to keep up with the other girls in your class, I imagine, must be hard too because you have followers now and you have likes and you have blue check marks and all that. Yeah, it's a strange time. And I guess I think this is just a problem on the way to our abandoning of biological human beings. You think eventually we're just going to become, just with robots, transhumanism. I think it's inevitable. I think we're seeing it already. We're seeing it with phones, you're connected to your phone. There's that new thing that you showed us yesterday, Jamie, that pin that people are wearing.

54:48It's a new product that you, instead of a phone, you have this thing and you just talk to it and ask your questions and hear, play this. So you could hear what it's saying. Let's give you examples of how this thing works. Isn't life about what we experience, what we smell? Can I eat this? Yes, drag and fruits are low in sugar. What we hear? Hey, what should I get here? What we see? Capture this. What's it saying? And what we feel? So this thing, I guess, does video, records, audio. What are some fun things to do nearby? Share more moments. Are you playing songs from the last time we were here?

55:38What would happen if we rediscover our senses?

55:45Oh yeah, it's kind of replacing phones, I guess, but not really. Yeah. I mean, it's a thing that's going to happen along with phones. I'm sure you're still going to want to check your likes on Instagram. Humane, that's hilarious. AI pin. Very weird. And again, that's just something you wear and eventually that's going to be in your head. And when it is in your head, you're not going to be a human anymore. You're going to be a completely different thing with access to information that's unprecedented. You're going to have it at your fingertips instantaneously. And also all your privacy is going to be gone.

56:20You're going to be able to read people's minds. They're going to be able to read yours. You're going to have access to all of your memories, but not just in the form of like, yeah, what did we do? It's going to be, you're going to have a digital HD version of what you did. And it's going to be very weird. But you wouldn't even need to have a fate. Like you and I can sit across from each other and not even be speaking. We could just be telepathically communicating. That's probably going to happen too. Yeah, that's probably going to happen too. Well, that's one of the first things that Elon told me about the neural link.

56:49So you're going to be able to talk without words. Wow. Yeah, you're going to be able to communicate without talking. And that's not that hard for them. I mean, they've already got it set up where you, I'm sure you've seen this where you put on this headpiece. And someone asks you a question and you Google it in your head. And then it gives you the answer. And then you repeat the answer. That's wild. Yeah. It's insane. It's insane. And I don't, I don't know what happens, but I don't think that we are long for this planet. I think we are the last. We are the last of the biological creatures. Babies born today, I think are the last of this generation of biological creatures.

57:33What do you think about AI in terms of its ability to mine data? Because another thing I find really interesting is how you can go into, say with an influencer and they have how many thousands of hours of content and they can create an AI version of that person. And so you can tinker with the personality in terms of making them more playful and make them more sassy. And then that, that AI version can actually interact with their fans. So the fans can ask them questions or talk to them. And then the AI will respond as if it is that actual person. And it actually sounds like them. It sounds like them.

58:06It has a bit of their personality, has their interests. Yeah. There was a Black Mirror episode like this with Miley Cyrus. And the, in the Black Mirror episode, Miley Cyrus' brain was downloaded into this little robot that young girls didn't have any friends. And so they would talk to her and she would be their best friend. And she would talk like Miley Cyrus did. But then it turned out that Miley Cyrus' actual brain was downloaded into this thing. And then she was in a coma somewhere and then they had a free her. And then her, you know. But that's basically happening now. People have like AI boyfriends and girlfriends.

58:43So here's a story that happened yesterday. There's a popular Twitch streamer. I'm not really sure where she is. But she has created a bot that lets fans interact with her. That, and mostly is to combat deepfakes. But we've talked about this before. There's a bunch of AI deepfake porn. Right. Only fans and whatnot. So she's just like, you know what? Yeah, it has to be. I'm gonna be in control of this. Let me say it has to be consensual. I don't think it's okay if you do that. And it's not against not with someone's consent. So she's making money off of this. It's not okay, but it's inevitable. I mean, once you have that kind of technology and you can decide you want to fuck Thanos.

59:19Like, you gotta come home with Thanos. It's gonna be in the bed with his legs up in the air. And there's not a damn thing. Anybody's gonna be able to do about it. It's just that kind of technology will be so powerful. There are so many deep fake ads of me out there selling everything. That's the ad for it. So this is the ad for it. Susu bot. Realistic voice, quality photos, no stolen images. Oh, okay. So she's launching something with her body. Right. Interesting. Okay. Well, good move for her. Right. And AI, Dr. Deborah. But not like a sexual one, just like one that could be. Right. I already am a robot.

59:59You are. You think? People say I am. Why do they say that? You don't seem robotic at all. Okay, well, I'm glad. Michael Malis says it's a pretty good impression of me as a robot. Oh, Michael Malis is a troll. He's a fun dude. He likes pushing buttons. You know, all these ideas of like what's ethical and what's cool and what's not cool. Those are going to be out the window. It's not going to matter. It's just going to be what human beings do. And it's going to be the technology going to be unstoppable. It's going to be very spooky. And especially in the hands of someone that's in control. Like if someone, whether it's corporations or we were discussing this the other day about if people do venture into the virtual world and then they live in the virtual world.

1:00:44But the virtual world is run by YouTube. And YouTube puts the same restrictions of content on the virtual world that they do on YouTube videos. Which is, you know, kind of like the bridge between us and the virtual world is your ability to put these things online and people interact with them. But, you know, if you know YouTube, YouTube stifles COVID information that may actually be accurate but doesn't go along with the CDC or the WHO's guidelines. They'll gender information that some people don't agree with or they find problematic. They'll censor that. They'll pull it. They'll pull any kind of criticism about any public thing that they don't believe is in line with their ideology.

1:01:28So you have this mega woke corporation that's run by Google and they are in control of discourse. And they do their very best to stifle as much discourse that doesn't go with their ideology as possible. And they make a concerted, obvious effort to do that. They demonetize you. They cause you to self -sensor. They do all these things. If that's happening in the virtual world, like you're literally going to get these mega woke corporations that are guiding the way human beings exchange information and communicate with each other in that world as well. And you're going to get this stifled world. And then what's the, you know, what's what what happens from that?

1:02:11Like what direction does humanity go? If you have a virtual world where people think and express themselves the same way those fucking idiots in Congress did that are the heads of these universities that are talking about, you know, anti -Jewish hate. What happens? Yeah, I think the political division is going to get even worse potentially if it continues in this way. But then I wonder, will there also be alternatives that are going to be built up to compete with that or to rectify that? Oh, perhaps. I mean, maybe that's what Elon's doing. That's one of the beautiful things about what he's done with X.

1:02:45He's created this platform that kind of goes against all of this stuff that you're seeing from all the other social media corporations who have gone very woke and are censoring people and are trying to push this very specific ideology. He's not doing that at all. And it's the biggest one, which is pretty wild. But you also see the reaction to it. Like they're pulling their advertisements. You know, there's all these campaigns to reach out to advertisers on X and have them pull their ads and call for boycotts of companies that support it. It's just like. It's not crazy though that the insult far right still works because to me anytime I see far right now, I think this must be a sensible person.

1:03:30Which is really bad because there are people out there who are extreme right leaning people. Yes. But the term is so meaningless now. Right. But I think there are also people who are still very much in the mainstream in terms of how they think and they're not aware that this term is just basically a way of saying this is someone I disagree with or this is someone I just don't like or this is someone who has a point. And I can't actually argue with their point. So I'm just going to call them a hateful bad person that needs to be censored and suppressed and hope that they go away. What's lazy? It's a lazy sloppy thinking that is designed to just silence someone.

1:04:04And if you could put that picture, you know, intimidate them. The last thing someone wants to do is be called a this or that. And you have to sort of dance around what you're saying and apologize for your preferences and apologize for your privileges. Just to avoid someone calling you far right or whatever. But it's it. I used to get called far right a lot, but I haven't seen it a long time. I don't think I'm getting called that anymore. I think it didn't work. You know, just wait till this podcast comes out. Yeah, perhaps. But yeah, I definitely get called transphobic for having people like you on or Abigail Shryer or.

1:04:37I love Abigail. Yeah. I can't wait. I used to get upset when I would see like there are all these organizations that I used to look up to and admire. And I was like, they're doing such good work in the world. And now I see myself put on hate lists that they published and burst it up. Now I think it's pretty funny. What did you get put on a hate list for? Just the things I've said about gender dysphoria, saying that it's associated with autism. Not for everyone, of course, but just saying that for many people. And there are studies coming out showing this like it's legitimate. But yeah, things like that.

1:05:04What the real issue became when it was profitable. When gender transition surgery became profitable. And then there's these surgery centers that are open up all over the country. I'm sure you've seen the graphs of what it was like in like 1990 versus what it's like in 2023. It's insane. And we know that medicine and that the this whole business of whether it's prescribing drugs or surgery or it's an insanely profitable business. And like all businesses, they try to maximize their profits. Like everything else, whether it's pharmaceutical drugs or the military industrial complex or fertilizer or anything that people sell.

1:05:46They try to maximize their profits as much as possible. And you're seeing that with these gender transition surgery places for kids. And that's insane. You also have to wonder, and I'll put it out there, that what kind of people want to suppress a child's puberty? Yeah. Right. And so I recently wrote about with Wall Street Journal to this really good investigation looking at Instagram Reels. Did you see, did you guys see this? No. And so what they found is that they got these new fresh devices. They set up these test accounts. And they followed a bunch of influential pre -teen and teen accounts like cheerleaders, gymnasts.

1:06:32Because they had noticed that many of the people following these influencers were grown men. And what they found is with these test accounts, the algorithm was showing them sexually explicit or potentially sexually explicit content involving children. Whoa. So. So the article is in the Wall Street Journal, Instagram's algorithm delivers toxic video mix to adults who follow children. Contents served to Wall Street Journal test accounts included rescaved footage of kids overtly sexual adult videos and ads from major brands. Yeah. That's the algorithm. That's the real problem with things finding out what you're engaging with.

1:07:18And if you're a fucking creep and you're engaging with 10 -year -old girls in their underwear, you're going to get a lot of that, I guess. So meta in their defense, they said that they had, I don't want to misquote them, but they basically said they don't approve of this. I think they've taken steps to stop this from happening. They said in January of this year, they removed 34 million pieces of content from Facebook and Instagram. That's a good start. It's probably a lot more out there. I mean, have you just mine? 34 million on two platforms. Well, this is one area of concern, but like murder.

1:07:52I see so many videos of people getting shot now. Because me and my friend Tom Segura, we do this thing every day. We find the worst things on Instagram. We send them to each other. So every morning when I wake up, I see a text from Tom, I'm like, oh, Jesus. And then if I find something fucked up, I send it to him. So my Instagram algorithm is fucked. Because it's like every time I scroll through my page, there's like a warning. Do you want to view this real? I usually do. And it tells you why, like what graphic, and I'm like, let me say it. And you say it's like, oh, God. And there's so, I mean, horrific industrial accidents.

1:08:33Gang shootouts. It's like just crazy shit. And it's obviously, it's finding out that I'll engage with those things. So it's sending me a ton of them. So how is it doing that if it's trying to remove them? There has to be something that it knows that I'll engage with those. So it will send me more of those. Like I don't buy that this is just dumb luck. Because these aren't accounts I even follow. They're just showing up at my feet. Well, I want to say I love Tom and Christina P. But with, this is how much I use Instagram before I wrote about the Wall Street Journal's investigation. I actually, I was like, where is the reals function on this app?

1:09:16So then I found it. And it shows you accounts, like you said, that you're not actually following. If people are as technologically savvy as me and they have no idea what reals actually does. So it will show you just from random people. So I think it's good that Meadows trying to clean up the platform and stop this. But I just, I guess I feel in my position and being so privileged to be on your show to draw awareness to this. Because I think there's so much talk culturally about grooming. People talking about how they don't like groomers and I agree. I think a lot of education, I used to be very much in favor of sex education for kids.

1:09:51I'm a little bit questioning that now because I see how that is also being used for ideological subversion. But I think in terms of talking about grooming, we also need to actually take steps to stop it from happening more broadly instead of just getting outraged about it. Because being outraged about it is not enough to help protect these kids. Unless there's a wholesale investigation of how these algorithms work in the sense that if there is a guy who's a grown man who is looking actively for young girl videos. How is he getting those? Are they showing up at his feed? Are they showing up constantly?

1:10:31How do you not know that this guy is 60 years old and that he's getting videos of 10 year old girls that run the world? You don't know this or do you not care or is the algorithm set up just to maximize interaction only? And it's a moral. And if this person looks towards that, it says, we got a lot more of that for you. So that means it knows that it has murder on its platform. It knows that it has these horrific accents and animal attacks and also overt sexuality of underage people. It knows. So if it knows, how are you not taking steps to mitigate that? Just removing stuff doesn't seem like it's enough because if you remove it, that means you can recognize it.

1:11:14So how can you not recognize it when it gets posted? If you're putting a warning up that tells me not to watch this. Well, that means you know it's there. So what do you think it is? Like what does the computer think? What does the algorithm think is happening here? And why is it being allowed? Is it only being allowed because it maximizes interaction? And that's good for profitability? Because that's what it seems like. I would love to ask many of these questions if they would talk to me. I'll put it out there. Yeah, that would be a very interesting conversation. Next time I get the zuc on, I'll ask him about those.

1:11:47Because I don't even know how much could one person really even be aware of what's happening? Like if you're the CEO of Instagram. How much time are they spending concentrating on the negative aspects of their algorithm? Because it's obviously a real concern for parents, for society, for people that are worried about child predators, for all these things. Yeah, I mean, I imagine they have their hands full with who knows what, right? They're busy people. There are so many people complaining about tons of things. I mean, they're essentially larger than any country. Which is nuts. Like if you looked at Instagram as a country, if it was a group of a collective group of people that all are in a thing, not on a patch of dirt, but in an app, it's way bigger than any country.

1:12:43Didn't we find out the other day, like 2 .6 billion or something like that? People on Instagram? That's insane. Something went out. So it would say with the numbers. But it's something in the neighborhood of roughly a third of the human population on the planet is on an app. Posting pictures, posting selfies. 2 .35 billion users currently, this number is projected to reach 2 .5 billion by the end of 2023, which is right now. 71 % of Instagramers in the United States are between 18 and 29. That's interesting. The average user spends 24 minutes on Instagram every day. That's surprisingly low. Instagram is a pretty even gender split, 50 .7 male, 49 .3 female, making up the total audience.

1:13:31India has the most Instagram users, accounting for 326 million Instagramers. Wow. India is our fifth largest country that listens to this podcast. Wow. And well. It's interesting that that statistic of 18 to 29 year olds, because you're seeing also this uptake of mental health issues in that 18 demographic. My friend, Sean, was saying this that he was looking at Instagram, Sean Amali. And he's not an anxious guy. He's a UFC bantamay champion. He was saying that when he goes over Instagram, he goes, he goes, even if it's like, it's not going to do with me, I get it like a low level of anxiety. Just scrolling.

1:14:10I'm like, absolutely. What is that? Part of me thinks it's like, I know I have things to do. Yeah. Why am I doing that? Why am I wasting my time? But also there's like some weird, voyeuristic aspect of just flipping through these reels and going through people's lives. It's just fucking kind of creepy. I wonder if it's also because, again, like evolutionarily, that's not something that we typically would have been able to do in the past to voyeuristicly look at someone's life and not have them in some way notice you're looking into their life. Right. Or interact with you directly. Yeah. And then you could have a whole other conversation while you're looking at that with somebody else and that person that you're looking at has no idea about it.

1:14:49So when you look at what's happening today with young people and their experiences in dating. And obviously this is unique to this time because of the internet and because of social media. Do you just think that this is just one of a new set of problems that this generation is going to have to deal with? And this is just how it's always been throughout time. Or do you think there's something we can do about it? I think there are things that we can do about it. But I am so far in terms of my research. I think the biggest solution is just to not give your kid a phone, which I know is so hard or at least not till puberty because at least let their development develop or let them get us far and development as possible.

1:15:34Before we start introducing all of this stimulation that the brain is not prepared for. There are some early research showing that there are changes in the brain associated with early social media use, which is concerning. I think we need to have more research to definitively know at this point. But I'm excited just to get to tinker away a little bit more and figure this out. But I would say, you know, I know it's hard. I imagine like I'm not a parent, but I imagine for parents it's really hard. When you have kids and all the kids in your children's classes have phones and everyone's on there and they're all their friends are talking to each other on there.

1:16:11How hard it can be, but you can get them a flip phone or get them a phone that doesn't have access to the internet so they can get the same. They're going to say if you do that. Yeah, and they'll also find ways to get on the internet without their parents knowing as well. I don't limit my kids in that way, but I do educate them on the draw, like the gravity of these things and how it can be a problem. And I want to get it in their head as they're young. But all their friends are doing all this and I don't want them to be socially ostracized. And I think it's navigable. I think you can navigate it.

1:16:44But I think we're looking at it as people that didn't have it when we were young and now see the problems with it now. Whereas it's everywhere now. And if you don't have it, I think being socially ostracized is just as much of a problem as being an old man. Like deeply connected to these things. And I think as long as you have open lines of communication with your kids. Yeah, that's important. That's important. You just got to talk to them. A lot. Talk to them about everything. Do you set time limits? I think that's helpful to me, just for adults to check the little graphs that show you how much time you're spending on each app.

1:17:21We take their phones at night. We set time limits. Good for their sleep. Yeah. But you know, it's a new world. And you know, if you see problems, you try to mitigate those problems and try to communicate about it. But this is the world that we live in. And it's a weird one. And it's not like, well, when I was a kid, I never used my phone. I'm like, I didn't have one. What are you talking about? Like, it's like, I don't know what it's like to be 13 with a phone. Like, it's very strange. I'm sure there are some benefits, too. Like in terms of you have all, not all of the information in the world.

1:17:55And not necessarily accurate information. But you do have a lot more information available to you that back in the day, you'd have to go to the library and grab an encyclopedia. Oh, they're way more informed than I was when I was their age. Way, way more informed. And they're instantaneously informed. They just talk to their phone. Mm -hmm. Like, they press the button and ask a question. Yeah. What's the population of Mogadishu? Bam. Like, what is this? What is that? What is, you know, what temperature is in the Sahara Desert right now? Like, just get, it's like instantaneous. Instantaneous. And that's just a clumsy, clunky way to do it before AI is in your brain.

1:18:31Yeah. They're not even going to have to ask in the future. You just have the question. Do you plan on having children someday? You know, my first step is to find a husband. That's always a good first step. How's that working out? I'm very busy with my career, but I'm taking applications. Taking applications. Do you use an app? I've been on them. I'm not on them currently, but... What caused you to abandon them? Just work, busy with work. Oh, yeah. But, you know, I don't, I never talk about my personal life, so I'm getting a better sound. Well, you don't have to make sure I'm comfortable. But I'm just curious, like, because you study this, and, you know, if you have children, let's say it's in two or three years from now, things are going to be even weirder.

1:19:15Oh, yeah. But for me, also, I think about what's going to be like the things I say in terms of how much... Those of us who criticize, say, gender ideology, or whatever it is, racial politics, whatever it is in society, you're going to have to deal with people coming after you and your family. And that's a very real consideration, I think, that many people I know have had to contend with, unfortunately. Yeah. So that's something else that I think about, you know. Yeah. It's, I mean, the thing about it is people are so polarized today. And the discourse is so, it's so vicious. It's like, you're with us or you're against us.

1:19:54You're the enemy or you're a comrade. And it's just... And there's no boundaries. I think in the past there was a sense of, we will go after this person, but there are certain things you just don't do. Right. At this stage now, it's like, or I don't know if it's just, there, it seems like there are so many more people who are more extreme. I don't know if this is because of social media, pitting people against each other, and you really think of someone who disagrees with you on this one issue that they must really be Satan, and you have to, you know, go to every length possible to shut them down.

1:20:23That's an eye suspect. Or it's a lot easier for people to get at you also because of, it's much easier to get in contact with someone nowadays. Yeah, I think it's both of those things, but I think that social media, most certainly, because of the fact, you don't actually interact with a person, it makes it much easier to be shitty with them. And that becomes a normal part of human discourse, the way we communicate with each other is shittier than ever before. Well, I like your optimism, though. I think that that's a good way to view life and just say, you know, things are constantly evolving and changing, and we just have to figure out how to evolve with it.

1:20:54Yeah, you know the expression, the kids are all right. They're kind of, or, but, you know, look, it's way better than living in 1900, you know, way better. It's way better than living where it's hard to get food. It's way better than living the place that didn't have penicillin. It's way better when you have access to information you can be informed. Sure, you can be ideologically captured, but you also can be informed. And there's a lot of people that I'm seeing now that used to be ideologically captured that have escaped. Really? Yeah, the overwhelming amount of information that's been given, particularly over COVID.

1:21:31The COVID thing woke a lot of people up. There was a lot of people that I was friends with that had this sort of wholesale respect for the medical establishment. And they never questioned anything. And now they're like, I don't fucking believe anything anymore. And then the more they've either listened to podcasts about people that have litigated medical cases involving, you know, pharmaceutical drug, adverse side effects, and how they've tried to cover them up and hide them. And then the understanding of how they conduct their studies and how they don't have to show studies that have negative side effects and how they can skew these studies in a very distorted and very deceptive way to show that there's efficacy.

1:22:14That's very shocking to people when they find out that, oh my god, the people that sell you medicine, they're not looking out for your best interest. They just want money. They just want money. Number one is money. Number two is how long can we sell it for? Does it work? Number three is like, does it help people? Like, is this thing actually going to work and help people? That's like at least concern on the food chain. Number one is money. Because that's what they do. And they have an obligation to their shareholders. They have to make the most money possible. And every year they try to make more and more money.

1:22:49You know, we're talking the other day about people that come into this country. For the longest time, you had to be vaccinated to come into this country. Now, I think you can get in without vaccine. But if you want to become a citizen of this country, you have to be vaccinated. Even with a vaccine that doesn't fucking work, which is absolutely wild. Like, if you want to be a citizen of this country, you have to abide by their bullshit rules that are captured by this massive industry that says, look, if we require people that want to become citizens to get vaccinated, we're going to sell more vaccines.

1:23:25And it's that simple. It's not like we're trying to protect everyone. That's bullshit. Because if you look at the statistics, particularly with the COVID vaccine, the more you get vaccinated, the more likely you are to get COVID, the more likely you are to get hospitalized. Like, it's not good. And yet, they still require it. Have to get it. Can I ask you what it was like at the peak of the craziness when they were coming after you pretty much every single news network was coming after you? You turn on the TV and they're calling you all these names. What is that like? Very eye opening. Because they were all doing it in lockstep.

1:24:04And you could clearly tell there was an agenda. And that it wasn't based on reality. Like, I wasn't taking horse medicine. They knew I wasn't taking horse medicine. They fucking knew it. And they were saying it on CNN. But they sacrificed their own credibility in doing so. And luckily, look, it was obviously one of the things that CNN did that was so stupid, they had very unlikable people that were talking. Like, you have Brian Stelter and Don Lemon, two of the most unlikable fucking human beings that have ever been on television. And they're the ones saying these things. So it did the opposite of work.

1:24:36I got two million subscribers in a month because of all that shit. And they would say these terrible things about me. And then people listened to podcasts go, oh, he's just curious. He's just asking questions and talking to people. But they didn't want curiosity. The really fascinating thing to me was how quickly I got better. And that they didn't want to concentrate on that at all. They just want to concentrate on me being a conspiracy theorist who took veterinary medicine. Veterinary medicine that's been prescribed literally billions of times for human beings. It's on the World Health Organization's list of essential medicines.

1:25:16I mean, it's so wild. It's just wild. It's wild. It was wild to watch it happen. But what I had on my side was that my podcast was way bigger than them. I don't think they knew that at the time. I think when CNN was going after me, they have this delusional perspective of their reach. And they thought that they were bigger than me. But my show was, I have ten times as many people as the best show on CNN. And now it's way worse. Like now they're getting the worst ratings that they've had since 1991. On some of their shows, they have 40 ,000 people watching. And they're in fucking airport. They're everywhere.

1:25:5740 ,000. Wow. That's crazy. I can get 40 ,000 people watching an Instagram real in 10 minutes. No joke. Yeah. They suck. It's a sucky organization. They suck it telling the truth. They suck at the news. They suck it not being horse. They're horse. That's what they are. They're horse for the pharmaceutical drug companies. And then, you know, they all got fired. Which is even funnier. They're all gone now. You know, they just fucking blow off in the wind somewhere. You're never going to hear from Dom Lemon again. Nobody gives a fuck about that guy. Nobody gives a fuck about Brian Stelter either.

1:26:30No one cares. So it's like, what you did was you sacrificed your own credibility, hoping that it was going to take out the competition and did the opposite. Well, I thank you for speaking up. And I know I'm not the only one that feels that way. Well, I didn't plan on it. The only reason why I did this is I was curious. So I was talking to this guy Robert Malone. And he was telling me like, I own nine patents on the creation of mRNA vaccine technologies. I was at the beginning of this. And I can tell you what's wrong with it. And I can tell you what's going on. And we should tell people. And I was like, okay.

1:27:01And as I have them on, then I'm just getting fucking attacked. And attacked by people like Neil Young. And the most disturbing thing was watching Neil Young talk on Howard Stern about it. Because I'm like, oh my god, you don't know Jack Shit about this stuff. And you're taking this stand against misinformation. You don't even have any information. You literally don't know a goddamn thing about it. And it probably had something more to do with the people who own his catalog. And they probably also have interest in the pharmaceutical drug companies. There's probably all sorts of conversations about how to stop this.

1:27:32How to stop this just objective truth from being disseminated. Or even just asking questions and having conversations and having those physicians on your podcast. Yeah. I would say the episode you did with RFK Jr. also was very eye opening. So I really recommend people listen to it because it's just scary the way that they've portrayed him in the mainstream. And you listen to him and he's so reasonable. He's very reasonable. And he's also, he spent so much of his time as an environmental attorney cleaning up rivers. And you know, and holding these corporations accountable for polluting. And he was very successful doing that.

1:28:10That was the majority of his life. It wasn't until these women came to him and said, you're you you're spending all this time talking about mercury poisoning and lakes and rivers. Look into this. Look into this. Look into the poisoning and the vaccines. Look into these side effects. Look into the fact that they're immune to prosecution. Look into the fact that they don't have to pay money. Look into the fact. Look into this immunity that they developed in the 1990s. And look at how many more vaccines have been giving to people now. And then there might be a connection with money. And so and then he gets into it.

1:28:40And then immediately he's labeled a conspiracy theorist. And it's just like, whoa. Oh. But these are the types of questions that scientists are supposed to be asking. Yeah. And that journalists are supposed to be asking. Well, when you allow pharmaceutical drug companies to advertise on television, which is we are one of two companies, or excuse me, should we are a company really? We're one of two countries. You're a cultural institution, like he said on the show, basically. Hmm. Yeah. Nothing I can do about that. But you know, those those drug companies, they pay so much money to advertise. And they don't want to cut that money train off.

1:29:26And so they'll bullshit and lie. But in doing so, in taking that money, they've killed their future. Because no one's going to trust them. Like they have less people engaging with mainstream media than ever before. than ever before, especially in terms of the news. It's crazy. It's crazy how much they've undermined themselves just by being horrors. I was hoping for a long time also that media would eventually come around. In the same way that I was hoping academia would eventually come around. But you see, I don't think that that's going to happen. And you see alternatives being built. So I think that's a positive thing.

1:30:04I do think that there's just going to be a new ecosystem going forward. I think that old system is very much coming to an end. Or it's going to continue to to bifurcate. Yeah, I think it's coming to an end. Because I think first of all, it has to just based on the limitations of the platform. If you can never get into depth about a subject. Like you and I have been talking here for a couple hours now. We wouldn't or whatever it's been. When you sit down with someone, you talk for long periods of time. Then you can get these in -depth discussions. And you could go over the various aspects of something.

1:30:41It's impossible in five minutes. You're doing five minutes and you're cutting into a commercial. Then you're showing a commercial where a bunch of people are dancing in the field because they took anti -depressants. And then you cut right back to a new thing. A new drama, a new dilemma, a new issue. And you have this biased take on this new thing. And nobody trusts you anymore. I mean, it's just, and it's also on a specific time. You have to tune in at eight o 'clock. Like, what of them busy? Like everything else is available streaming. Everything else is available at any time you want. Everything else you can pause.

1:31:12It's just a dumb way to communicate. And it was the only way that was available in 1990. But it's not 1990 anymore. And you're still doing it like 1990. It's like, if you were still trying to have the fastest horse driven wagon to get across the country, why are you doing that? You don't have to do that anymore. It's literally what it is. Massacres will. Well, it's just they are, they're trying to survive. And this is their business. And there's a lot of people involved in that business. And the business sucks. It's a sucky business. Just no one would start that business today. No one would say, you don't want to do, I want to do the news.

1:31:52But only get like real shallow with stuff. And only have whatever the government or the regime, regime -supported narrative is, I just want to say that. And then I want to get all the money from drug companies. And whatever else is like selling toxic shit. Like they have a lot of money. And then we'll use that money. And that's what we do. Like no one's going to do that now. Like mainstream media now is when it comes to the news is independent media. Yeah. If you look at the YouTube shows like Breaking Points, they get way more views than the average show that's on MSNBC or CNN. Like no one cares about that anymore.

1:32:31But I would say the one good thing about legacy media before was that it would force people to some extent to be exposed to views that they don't necessarily agree with or that they wouldn't necessarily be exposed to. Like with your show because it is so big, I think it does reach everyone. But I think for, I would say there's a risk that people might be siphoned off even more into echo chambers because they will only consume the media that they agree with or that of commentary that they like as opposed to. If you open, say, a mainstream newspaper back in the day, you go to the opinion section, like I'm an opinion writer, you'll read columns maybe that you agree with, but you'll also recoms that you really disagree with.

1:33:12And you might hate that columnist. But every week you're going to, or every day, you're going to be forced to come across that. And I think that helps people humanize opinions that they dislike because they'll say, well, there are people out there who have this view, even if I really disagree with it. And maybe there are parts of this argument that I can, to some extent, see the validity of even if I don't agree with them. I can understand a little bit more where they're coming from. But now it seems like if we just follow the particular people that we like, do we really necessarily? Because many people will only have people in their show, not everyone.

1:33:43Like I'd say many of my colleagues are really good about this. They'll have people on that they disagree with. Yeah. Then you have the problem that the guest who doesn't want to come on. Like for me when I was podcasting with my show, it's currently on a hiatus, but we will be coming back to it. I would reach out to people who disagree with me and they don't want to talk to me. Yeah, they don't want to platform you, which is hilarious. Yeah. Or they lose points by talking to someone. I think you're making a good point about what used to be legacy media in terms of newspapers, the opinion pieces.

1:34:11But obviously we're also talking about something where you really get to go into depth. Like an opinion piece in the New York Times, you know, you have thousands of words. Yeah. So much of an opportunity to express yourself uninterrupted and unchecked. Whereas what I was talking about is mainstream news. And mainstream news is this very surface. What's going to freak you out and keep you tuned in as much as possible? And you know, much to the dismay, the most effective product they had was Donald Trump. The hate for Donald Trump was a ratings boom for CNN. They probably made millions and millions of dollars just because they covered Trump.

1:34:50Yeah. Yeah. The hate watching. I never understood hate watching. So like do people not have better things to do? Some people like hate watching. And they don't have better things to do. But it's also like the same way that your algorithm, you know, encourages you to, if you're, you know, be outraged. Yeah. It's just whatever gets you engaged. And for them, like Donald Trump is business. It's good business. It's getting people enraged. And they thought foolishly that by showing him over and over and over again being stupid or whatever they thought he was doing, that they were going to diminish his chances of being president.

1:35:28They just made it more and more popular. And they also didn't realize how many people hate them. They didn't realize how many people hate them for lying. So if you're talking bad about someone and they don't like you, you're like, yeah, but I don't like you. And you're talking about about him. I think I like him now. Well, because people can then go and fact check. Do their own fact checking. Yeah. Not just rely on the slow called fact checkers. A lot of people don't. I had a guy come up to me in Vegas like, why are you taking horse medication? Shut the fuck up, dude. You just like, you don't even know.

1:35:55You just, you are taking the time to talk to someone without even taking the time to look into it. But yet you seem morally righteous in coming up to me and saying, why didn't you just get vaccinated? Why didn't you take horse medication? Well, I mean, one of the things that I'm sad about, but it was also kind of hilarious, is how many people were promoters of the vaccine and then died suddenly? It's crazy. How many fucking young people just died in their sleep after they took it. And everybody's like, nothing to see here. I said an adult death syndrome. Yeah. Just died suddenly. You ever go to the died suddenly Instagram page?

1:36:35Like, holy shit. Oh, my god. There's so many. And so many people like talking about people who are, you know, anti darwin, anti -vaxxers, and then, then you're dead. Sorry. You bought, you bought into the wrong bullshit. But that's, you know, if you really want to get cruel, that's Darwinism. Do you not know they lie by now? Do you not, are you not aware of the opioid crisis? You're not aware of viox? You're not aware of the various like to 25 % of all FDA approved drugs that get pulled? It's one out of four. And you're like, you're an anti -vaxxer. You're like a conspiracy theorist. You fool.

1:37:14Darwin's going to do its work with you. You're modifying your genes. You fucking idiot. Like, what are you doing? What are you doing? You're just going to trust Pfizer? Well, they do support Anderson Cooper brought to you by Pfizer. And you're like, oh, this must be legit. I'm just going to clip this and show this to people from this point on. Yeah, clip it. I mean, it's, it's very eye opening. It's very eye opening. And one of the things that gives me hope is that if we do get to a point where we have full access to all information instantaneously in our minds, if the bottleneck is propaganda, if that can no longer exist in that realm, then we'll be way better off.

1:38:02If you are only dealing with absolute facts because AI is in charge of disseminating information to the point where they realize, these are the bias. This is why this study is ineffective. This is why this study is actually deceptive. That would be helpful. Here's how they profited off of that study being deceptive. It was responsible for, you know, increase in their profit margin by X amount. And this is why they did it. These people went to jail. These people are being, they left the FDA and immediately went to work for Moderna. This is how much money they made. This is why they made these decisions.

1:38:34And then the ability to read minds. All those together, like we might be on like the last spaceship that's like shooting away as the Earth explodes. You know that we just make it just outside the blast radius. Yeah, that's the hope. That's the hope. The hope is that, I mean, that might also be the thing that influences people to give into AI and to give into having something integrated into your biology. It's the only way for us to escape bullshit. Human created bullshit. And when you say, trust the science, look, I do trust science. The science is not the problem. It's human bullshit that represents the science.

1:39:17It's human bullshit that's using propaganda and they're using biased studies and they're lying to you. It's human. It's not science and the ideology and the ideological subversion. That's not science. That's humans. It's humans and they're bullshit. And if you just have pure data and pure information, you can talk about it objectively. Everyone should have that. That would be wonderful. But that's not what you have in this day and age with media -sponsored narratives. When you have pharmaceutical drug companies responsible for a large portion of the commercial budgets for these programs. And then no one says anything about the 40 % increase in all -cause mortality that mysteriously arose after they made people get shot up with some experimental shit.

1:40:10Like that's science. How come you're not talking about that? Yeah. How come you don't trust that science? Why is that data such a problem? Because that data implicates a lot of fucking people are wrong. And a lot of people are giving really bad advice. And a lot of people ignored all the warning signs because they didn't want to be an anti -vaxxer. The problem is not ever the truth. The problem is what people do with it potentially. But I think the way to approach that is to be honest about what the truth is. And then to just say, this is what it means and what it doesn't mean. Or this is how it should not be used.

1:40:42And so science is just basically a tool to get to the truth. But when people start it, it really bothers me the way that, like you said, trust the science. It's like the science when it fits a particular narrative versus the science as it actually is. So I don't even like to say that I'm like pro -science, so that I follow science. Because that has such a negative connotation nowadays, which is crazy. Because if you can't even say that, then it's like saying, I'm in favor of truth. And truth means nothing now. So really weird. It's a weird time. But there's enough people that are like actual objective scientists out there.

1:41:18It's just they're captured by these institutions that they find themselves working for. And that's what gets really crazy. And that's where Yuri Besmanoff was so brilliant in explaining what's going to happen. But who the fuck would have thought I was going to have it with science? Who would have ever thought it was going to happen the way it's laid out? Like we are our own worst enemy in that regard. And this is also a real problem with people being captured by an idea espousing that idea, talking to people about it, trying to get people to go along with it, and then realizing it was wrong. In the long road it takes to accept that and to admit it.

1:41:57And then to be open about it. And a lot of doctors, their credit, have done that. And I'm sure it was very painful, like, you know, kind of like coming out of the closet or something like. Peel that bandaid away and go, you know what? I was wrong. Like this is not good. This is dangerous. I'm seeing blood clots in people that aren't normal. Well, they were excluding their licensure. Yes. Yes. And that's one of the more interesting things about Robert Kennedy Jr.'s work, particularly his book The Real Anthony Fauci. If you find out how the system actually works and you read that book, and how it's been working like that since the 1980s, it's fucking horrifying.

1:42:35Terrifying. Really, it's really spooky. You know, and I always say, that book's not true. Why isn't he getting sued? Why isn't he getting sued? Because it is true. Like, you could go look, I've looked up many of the things that are in that book, and you go, oh my god, this is real. The testing of vaccines on foster kids for AIDS, it killed them in New York. It's like, that's real. They really did that. They took these lost kids. They didn't have parents. They just fucking injected them with experimental drugs. I thought it was interesting when he was talking about good mercury versus bad mercury.

1:43:10Oh my god. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. When you find out that the good mercury actually penetrates the blood -brain barrier quicker, and it fucking accumulates in your brain. Like, what? Oh boy. Yeah, there's so many lies because these lies are convenient for profits. And that's scary stuff. It really is. I mean, but that's with everything in our culture. I think the only thing that's saving us is honest discussions. It's the only thing that's saving us right now. And I think that's the thing that they never saw coming, which is really interesting. Or that people have the guts to keep going. Yeah.

1:43:45I think many people who are trying to suppress this information or suppress, suppress information more broadly just think that they could silence the people who are against them. Yeah. But they're very stubborn people out there. Well, also those people wind up getting fired too. And they wind up getting cast out too. And then they wind up like going, oh, what did I do this for? Like, we were talking about with CNN, like those anchors. They're fucking homeless now. Like, who knows what they're doing? I mean, I'm sure they're not homeless. They're jobless. Like, what are they doing now? Like, what did you do?

1:44:21And look what happened. Look where it got you. Got your nowhere. Like, maybe some enough people realize, like, you can't have a career. And bullshitting people anymore. That's not going to work. There's too many people that call bullshit. There's too many people. And then other people will check. Well, who's right? And then when they go over it, they go, oh, that guy that you call bullshit on, like, he's fucking accurate. You're a bullshit. You're the bullshit party. And, oh, look, you're sponsored by all these, oh, well, there it is. Seems pretty obvious now. And that's the thing. That's why nobody wants to listen to mainstream news anymore.

1:44:55And, you know, you're talking about, like, opinion pieces in the New York times and things along those lines. Like, yeah, those used to be really important. But those were ideologically captured as well now. There's less and less of those that I trust now. When you do see one of those reasonable voices in a mainstream publication, it's like shocking. I know. Like, how long does this guy have to survive? How did this happen? How long is she going to be working for that? Yeah, it's not good. But also, it's kind of interesting. Because I feel like ideas as well, like almost everything has to have something that's fighting against.

1:45:30And... The push and pull. Yeah. And that push and pull, whether we like it or not, we want utopia, but it doesn't exist. We... That push and pull is imperative for growth and change. And I think that push and pull that we're experiencing with the... The death of the relevance of mainstream media, at least in terms of television news, is beneficial to the rise of independent media. Because independent journalism, there are Matt Taibis and, you know, and Shalim Burgers and there's just people out there, Barry Weiss, that are really trying to tell the truth. And they do exist. And you can find them when you've had enough.

1:46:05What do you think is going to be the eventual outcome of all those COVID narratives? Unfortunately, I don't think enough people are going to go to jail. Unfortunately, I don't think enough people are going to be held financially responsible. And it'll all be lost if something else happens and they do it again. If something more contagious, more deadly comes up and they get to lock down again harder this time. And then this time enforce vaccine passports and then connect it to a social credit score. And then get people on centralized digital currency. Then you have complete ultimate control over narratives.

1:46:53Because you'll be able to cut people's money off. You'll be able to limit their travel, limit their ability to work. That's a real problem because there's a lot of dummies out there that don't realize the danger of this. And they'll think that, you know, anybody who's talking about what are you, conspiracy theorists, they'll get caught up in their stupid mainstream narratives because a lot of people, they're not paying attention to independent journalism and accurate information. And they're not sitting around. And we were told like during the pandemic, don't do your own research. Yeah. Like what the fuck are you talking about?

1:47:26How about my own research and corruption of pharmaceutical drug companies? Are you allowed to do that? Who will I do that about the past? The people that have been responsible for the biggest criminal fines in medical history? Is that okay? The fuck are you saying? And but the ability to say that, just what I just said, is so critical for people to understand what's really going on. And if you don't have anybody saying that, then we're really in trouble. Because if everybody's Brian Stelter, we're fucked. We're fucked. If that's the only way you're ever getting information, there's no Wikipedia, not even Wikipedia, that's biased too.

1:48:02But there's just no independent journalism, there's no substack, there's no YouTube, independent journalist videos where they're going over, case by case, step by step, all the problems and all of the corruption that led us to this position. If you don't have those people and all you have is these mainstream propagandists, we're fucked. But that's not the case right now. So that gives me help, because these conversations are happening and people are paying attention. And look at how many people are taking this updated COVID shot. Fuckin' nobody. Nobody wants that shit. Because they realize, this isn't work, it's dangerous.

1:48:41Everyone knows someone that has something go wrong. Everyone does. And we don't even know what the real numbers are. The VAIR system is like, what does it get? Like one, two percent of the actual adverse events that are reported? Who fucking knows how many people? I have two friends that are pacemakers. One guy's in his 40s, almost 50 now. And one guy's in his 30s. 30s. 30s. Got vaccinated. All of a sudden, heart stopped beating for like nine seconds at a time. And we just black out and fall down. Goes to a doctor, a doctor says, you're going to need to get a pacemaker, at least for now. Yeah.

1:49:21That's sad. He's a dentist. And he's a smart doctor. He was like very confused by all this. It's like, I thought I was following the rules. I thought I was following the science. Yeah, it's wild. I'm sure you've seen that video of that girl, Heather McDowell. She's talking on stage about being vaccinated. And then she fucking blacked out and cracked her skull. Oh, God. Tell me the universe isn't trying to send a message through that. I mean, how is it possible that at that moment, after talking about being vaccinated and bragging about it, that that's when you black out on stage? How many times you blacked out on stage?

1:50:03You know, many times that girl's been on stage. She's been a stand up comedian for decades. She's been doing thousands of shows. How many times she talked about being vaccinated? Probably not that often. How many times she's done it on video? Probably not that often. And the one time she does it and she blacks out right after she says it. Bounces her head off the ground. Cracked her skull. But then she was on Dr. Drew. And Dr. Drew was talking to her about this seems to happen when people get boosted. There's some sort of an effect that happens to people. I love Dr. Drew. He's out there now. I mean, he's, you know, he's a lot more mainstream.

1:50:38And I think he's kind of woken up to all this shit too. What's wild is when people do the compilations of people posting and saying like, you know, I got this. And everyone who won't, I hope you die. And then it turns out that they pass after. I mean, it's tragic. It's sad. But it's also really scary. It's very scary. But it's also they're scared. That's why they post those things. You know, they want to, they want to believe they made the right choice. And I'm sure they've heard all the people that say that it's not the right choice. And then what a fight against that. No, we have any the right choice.

1:51:11All you people are going to die. And I'm not going to cry at all. And then you're dead. Whoops. Whoops. Put all your fucking eggs in the wrong basket. Yeah. And you suppressed people that are asking questions, which is crazy. Especially when these people are asking questions of people that are, you know, like legitimate scientists. Like, I want to know, like, how did you come to these conclusions? Like, Peter McCalla. Like, that guy is the most published doctor in human history in his field. He's not a moron. No, he's a super well respected doctor. And he was talking about the danger of this thing.

1:51:56All of a sudden, this guy is removed from his position at the university. He's getting sued. He's getting, like, disperaged everywhere. I mean, it's, it's a great, but it takes people like that. It takes courageous people to stand up and, and. And just fucking take a chance and say, hey, this isn't right. Like, this is not correct. It's not true. At great cost, personally. I think also when people see that someone is willing to take a stand and to say what they think, no matter what the cost is, that inspires other people to do the same thing. I think it does, too. Yeah. It definitely inspires.

1:52:35It lets people know that there's another way. Yeah. Because everybody's just stepping in line. It's like, yeah.

1:52:48I'm optimistic, but I'm also realistic. This could all go sideways. You could all go sideways. Okay. And we could be one of the lost generation. And it could take decades before some new generation rises up and pulls us out of this. You know, I mean, if you were born in Germany in the 1940s, like, how would you, what do you, you know, it's not your fault. You're in the middle of fucking holocaust. Like, what happened? You're fucked. You're in the wrong timeline. You just got, and we could be in the wrong timeline. Like, there could be some terrible things that happen in this country where you do get the centralized digital currency, and you do get the vaccine passport, and you do get a complete capture of the population.

1:53:30Because you have the ability to shut people's funds off, and most people are just going to hear. They're just going to comply. And they don't know what to do, and they're going to complain. They're going to bitch and mone. And, you know, they'll be captured by these massive institutions that only care about extracting profit. What I would say is just to, for people to never feel badly about the way they feel or for being skeptical. Because I think that's the biggest thing. From what I heard in my, from my audience, is that many people felt like they weren't allowed to have their own thoughts or have their own opinions.

1:54:03Like, they were afraid of that, or they were being shamed for that. Yes. Well, there was, one of my friends was talking to me about this, and he's like, it was in my mind that you have to be an idiot to not take the vaccine. The vaccine is going to work. They're saying it's going to work, and that's the only thing that's going to get us out of this. And if these people aren't taking it, they're going to fuck this up for everybody else. So there was that narrative. And my friend was talking about like, that was, he was like, that was me. I really thought that everybody wasn't getting vaccinated, was an idiot, and then this is our way out of this.

1:54:33Yeah. And it wasn't. But now he has a completely different perspective. And I was like, oh shit, they're all liars. Like, this is like, and then when you read RFK's work on it, and you talk, when he talks about the actual studies that they conducted, and what they actually showed, and they never did a study on whether or not it stopped transmission, they never, they had no idea. It was just whether or not it made the antibodies.

1:55:02Wild. But that is going to be the case. I think with everything that we deal with that involves money. Whether it's climate change, whether it's gender affirmation surgery, whether it's whatever social issue. Diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's just a money grab. It's all a money grab. Yeah. But well, for the best. Yeah. Well, maybe this is what I do. I tell the truth, and truth is a money grab. Kind of. I can't stop your joke, okay? No, I'm not joking. But I'm telling the truth because I tell the truth, but it's also a good way to make money. Because that's the thing that's going to stand in the end.

1:55:44You're not going to have to turn around and realize everything you said was a sham. Right. I'm not doing it to make money. Well, I definitely am doing it to make money. But I'm not doing it specifically because I know what I'll do. I'll be a truth teller. No, it just seems like the thing to do just happens to be profitable. Well, because there are so few people doing it nowadays. Which is wild. How wild is that? You know, well, you're doing it. Back to your work about dating and all this jazz. One of the things that someone brought up to me that I was really thinking about the other day was how much everything changed when women entered into the workforce and then when women got birth control.

1:56:26That those in terms of human history, those are two of the biggest changes when it came to dating and because now women had their own money and women also didn't get pregnant every time they had sex. Yeah. So they had this ability to move on and not have a relationship with someone that they had sex with and not be connected to them forever because they have a family with them. Yeah. Yeah. This is one area I'm really interested in. And I do think that that technology has been, I think a net positive. I don't think we should want to take it away or take away women's right or ability to plan in terms of there when they want to have a family.

1:57:07If they want to have a family, you know, if they necessarily want to have what am I trying to say here? Yeah. I think just the ability to control their sexuality, right? To not have their sexuality necessarily linked to reproduction. Right. I think that's a powerful thing. I'm sure many people disagree with me that we should separate those things. But otherwise the alternative is to say that people should not be sexually active until they're ready to have children, which I don't think is realistic for men or women. So there definitely has been a lot of change in society in terms of now, like you said, because women are basically before it was that women were seeking equal opportunities in terms of education and employment to men.

1:57:52And now women are, for the most part, at least in the West, outperforming men in many cases, especially when it comes to education. You know, they're graduating high school and university at higher rates than young men are. And I think the projected ratio is that women are going to be graduating from college at a ratio of two to one to men in the coming years. That's amazing. So, of course, I'm not saying I think women should go back to being in the kitchen or that women are good at science and math and people accuse me of these things. But I think it's worth talking about. And I think we do need to take into consideration helping men who may not feel like they're doing as one society or think about real solutions as to what we can do to women.

1:58:29And you help them because if you are a woman, you're straight. You're going to want to date and hopefully settle down with someone. And if you can't find a partner, that's not a good thing either. Well, there's also a difference between the way a woman perceives and what a woman wants from the world versus a man. And that's why you don't see male fuck robots. Well, I was going to say that's also why you don't see male house husbands that much, although that's like a trend on social media. There were women who women aren't happy with them though. They might pretend that they are, but you know, but yeah, the same thing you don't see male sex robots so much.

1:59:05Unless it's for gay men. Yeah, maybe. Other gay men robots for sex. Yeah, they're, well, they're dolls and I'm sure the robots are on their way. They're all their way. Yeah. Can't stop them. Jack Thor robot waiting for you at home every day. Yeah, basically. Yeah. Yeah. The house has been things wild one. It's like that gender role seems to be very pervasive. Like the male provider versus the female provider. I don't know anybody that's in that female provider. A man who just sits at home thing where it works. Well, you see those videos. The men like they're like doing the dishes and vacuuming while they're girlfriends at work.

1:59:48And I think that's great. I think men should do housework. I don't think it should be just the woman doing that and having a job. But women want like women prefer typically men who provide and. Yeah, I don't think at least as successful as they are. Typically, I don't think most women want a man who doesn't have his own money. Who doesn't have a way to make an income and just like you're just it's going to be a fucking weird relationship. You know, it's going to be weird. It is cute though and they pack their wives their lunches, I guess. Well, look, it'd be cute if you had money. Look, if it was a guy who is wealthy and he did that because he loved you.

2:00:25Yeah. Yeah. But not some bitch ass man that doesn't have any other function other than to be your little you're a little keeper. You know, that's I think part of the problem. It's just it's like there's certain gender roles. I'm not saying you should adhere to them. I think you should do whatever you want. If you're a woman and you want to be a power line worker, go for it. You should be doing whatever you want. But there are certain gender roles that are stereotypes for a reason. You know, like there's women that have zero problem not making any money and being a housewife. I don't know any man who does that who's not conflicted or or cucked or beaten down by that relationship to the point where, you know, like you just it's just not normal.

2:01:12Well, in the past, it's because evolutionarily if a woman was with a man who couldn't provide they would probably both die. Right. There's a reason for that. There's a reason why, you know, that that tendency still remains now. Of course. You want a man who can protect you. You want a man that can provide you and you want someone who can step up when shit gets weird. You know, and if you don't have someone who can respond to a dangerous situation or to pressure who can think clearly, can handle stress. Like, what, you got a liability. Now you got someone's going to fall apart. Now you have the opposite of a provider and a protector.

2:01:49You have some fucking extra person that's more of a liability than you are. Like, oh, great. Now have to abandon this loser and run from the zombies because he's crying. Yeah. But again, I think people should do it. Look, I'm friends with a lot of females that are MMA fighters. I have no issue with gender non -conformity. I think if men want or more feminine or women are masculine, that's fine. Absolutely. Nothing wrong with it at all. You know, but I just think in terms of traditional heterosexual relationship roles, I'm not saying it can't work out if the woman has all the money and the man is just laying around at home all day.

2:02:26I'm just saying it's not likely. Yeah. Or for me, just I bring attention to this because when you see those dynamics where people are trying to go against what they inherently feel, they don't understand why they're not happy. And it's like you don't have to deny what you want in the name of being progressive or trying to be enlightened. It's okay to, if you do fall into stereotypes, that's okay. And if you naturally don't, that's fine too. But I don't think we should necessarily intentionally try to push against stereotypes just for the sake of it. Right. Because there's a good chance you're not going to be satisfied with that.

2:02:55That's a good point. Like, there's nothing wrong with a feminine woman. There's nothing wrong with a masculine woman. There's nothing wrong with a masculine man. There's nothing wrong with a feminine man. It's like, but when you see a feminine woman, like an overtly feminine woman, there's some people like, oh, she's giving into stereotypes. Maybe not. Maybe that's what she likes. If there's fucking hundreds of millions of them, isn't it possible that that's just a way that someone's hormones and personality and interacts with the world? And then there's the other thing that's odd that I've always wondered because it's like it doesn't affect men physically.

2:03:35The birth control pill. Like, what kind of an effect has that had overall on the way women behave and the choices that they make, not just because they have choices, because they don't have to worry about getting pregnant. But they have this hormone that's being artificially introduced into their body that tricks them into thinking that they're pregnant, which is a very unusual, what very common, but a very specific state of the woman's body. And now, your body is like that all the time, which has to profoundly affect decisions you make, the way you live. Like, my friend Whitney Cummings, she just had a baby.

2:04:17She got off birth control pill and she was on the pill for like 20 years or whatever. And she's like, Jesus Christ, it's like, I'm a different person. Yeah. Like, what the fuck happened? Yeah, that's really common. I hear that a lot. Pretty much every woman is going to be on birth control at some point in her life, not necessarily pill, though she'll be using some form of birth control. But I would say definitely in terms of the pill because it tricks your body into thinking you're pregnant. Right. So there has been research to show that women who meet their partners while they are on the pill and then they get off it, they're not attracted to them after.

2:04:51That's crazy. So I know what I feel really badly for those guys. I feel bad for the women and for the men because it's like, how sad would that be, especially if you start, you know, having a family, then you really should not attracted to them. Well, what is it about them that's not attractive once they're not on the pill? Well, because when the body is pregnant, you're seeking, I'm treating it like this is a totally disconnected thing from someone like when the body is pregnant. But when someone is pregnant or when they're on the pill, they're seeking someone who's going to be more nurturing.

2:05:18And versus when you are not on the pill and you're actually ovulating, during that period, you're looking for more of an alpha type, super masculine guy, because that's someone who's, that's a man who's going to have good genes to provide you with your offspring. Interesting. So they might choose a guy who is more, say, sensitive or more nurturing while on the pill, and then they get off it, and then they want the more alpha type guy, which, you know, I can see why some people might find that offensive because that seems to fit into certain stereotypes about women, what women do and don't want.

2:05:55But I think it's fine if you're not masculine. But why is that offensive? Well, because I think for women to say that women want a masculine man, which I think most women do, I think some people feel it's saying that women deserve to be treated badly. And I don't think masculinity is necessarily a bad thing. It's only if someone is an abusive person that that's a bad thing. But those two things are not necessarily found together. Or masculinity doesn't necessarily mean that someone is going to treat his partner poorly. Or I think also communication, right? Masculinity, when they use the term toxic masculinity, they are referring to men not wanting to talk about their feelings and having mental health issues because they bottle things up and there's that.

2:06:35But there's a middle ground. You know, I don't think we have to demonize men just like we don't have to demonize femininity. I couldn't agree more. Yeah. But I have so much more to talk to you about this once I announce what I'm working on. Well, we'll definitely do it again once you announce what you're working on. Thank you. Do you want to do it that way? I would love that. Is there anything else you want to talk about? I could go forever, but I think that's I got my huge list here for your audience once. Where's the one? I want to see how organized I am. Okay. Well, people also want to follow you online.

2:07:06Tell people what's the best access to your work and where should they go? Yeah, so you can find me on social media at Dr. Debra So, Debra is D -E -B -R -A. So is S -O -H. You can I actually have a book my book here if you want to see this hateful transphobic piece of work. The end of gender you can get at Dr. Debra So .com and Simon and Chuster's website. Thank you, Joe. My pleasure. Thank you so much. You've been so supportive from day one. I remember coming on your show when I was when you're still in LA and I was just like I really hope that he doesn't think I'm a crazy person. No, I don't think you're a crazy person.

2:07:42And I always enjoy talking to you. Thank you. So, best of luck to you. Thank you. And we'll do it again. We'll do it again when you're this not to be mentioned project. Awesome. Okay. Thank you. All right. Bye everybody.