#2114 - Zack Snyder

26:40But a bunch of different strange cultures can rise. And when you have a particularly barbaric time in history and you have this group of people and Athens that are literally changing the world through democracy and through the Ilyusinian mysteries and all the shit that they were doing, people are traveling from all over the globe to come to this one spot. And then you got these fucking savages. These people are the savages of savages, the Spartans. If you think about it, if someone says like, what kind of a warrior would you want to be? If you're a little kid, I want to be a Spartan. Yeah, of course.

27:20Like all these sports teams have Spartans as they're like mascots. Yeah, and to imagine that there was a group of people that existed, a culture that existed that was completely warlike and had these tenants that were just unbendable. And from the time you were a child, they tested you. Yeah, that's it. And if you fucked up, if you failed, if you fell apart, if you quit, you were chucked out. Yeah, the cryptale, like they, they, you know, the whole thing like where they would send you like around seven, you'd go on the Igoge, you'd go like into the wilderness and you're basically living among other kids that were between like seven and 13 and you just were like wild and they, and the, and the, the sort of elite of those groups were called the cryptale.

28:05And the cryptale would come down and just kill hellots whenever they wanted. Like they were encouraged. The hellots were that slave, the slave class that the Spartans sort of that maintained Spartan society. And these guys, these kids, imagine like if you lived, you know, and like in the hills, you knew there was just like this 13 year old gang of 13 year olds that were gonna just come down and murder you at any moment. They were encouraged to murder you. And they were encouraged to do it because they like, and also the hellots were fine. If the hellots killed them, that was fine because that meant they, that they weren't good enough.

28:34Anyway, and then they would have this like, they did this ritual with this like table of cheese where like all these Spartan warriors would stand around the table and all the 13 year olds who were ready to like transition to becoming true Spartans. You'd have to like try and get and pull a piece of cheese off this stone table. And the, and the Spartan warriors who guarded the table could do anything to stop you. And it was just like just beating the crap out of these 13 year olds. And they, and finally like, you know, if you got it, then you were, you were given to a Spartan soldier who raised you.

29:08And basically the idea was that you, he was your lover, he was your teacher, he was everything to you because the Spartans believed that, you know, really, they believed that you, you, you would die for your, your brother if you were also lovers, you know, they thought that like, if you were confused about why we're fighting, fight for that guy who's not only your best buddy, but like, oh, there's like a story, I guess, where they were like, the Spartan, when the Persians first came, they sent a scout over and they looked down at the Spartans right in the night before the big battle and he goes, he went back and he goes, they were all like, having sex with each other was like a weird like, we're like, it's, we're gonna be good.

29:48And there was this, one of the Spartans kings was the old Spartan king was now working with the Persians and said like, oh, no, we're fucked. They're saying goodbye to each other. Do you know like, you know what that means? Like, we're completely screwed. Like, they're gonna, like, we're gonna get murdered tomorrow, you know, like, and they were like, you're nuts. You don't know what you're talking about. Like, they're a bunch of softies. Like, let's go get them. What if that's the key to the, to being the absolute greatest army, you have to be gay? Yeah, I have to be gay. Well, there's precedent.

30:19So I don't know. There is precedent, right? Like, imagine if that was applied today. Yeah, it could be amazing. Yeah, but we'll do it be a real problem. We'll see, we'll see. The family structure. Let's see what they say. Yeah, well, by the way, in the end, the Spartans had a real problem because they couldn't, we talk, there's this really crazy thing like, we're on their wedding night. They would have to shave the head of your bride and dress her like a man and she would fight you because there's no. That was the only way they got hired. That's the only way they could get it. Yeah, I get a lot of them.

30:48They need a guy. Unless they got like, unless they got like a bloody lift, you know, they were like, not it wasn't gonna happen. That's so insane. Isn't that crazy? That's so insane. So like, you can imagine that it was hard to like, keep the, you know, generate enough offspring, you know, with that. Like you had an awesome army. Right. They were fucking the best, but like you, you're as far as your procreation was going, it wasn't it? God imagine being a woman. This episode is brought to you by Buffalo Trace Distillery. Actually have some Buffalo Trace cigars here. They just sent me one of the world's most award -winning distilleries that's been making whiskey the same way for more than 200 years made as a tribute to the rugged free spirited pioneers who blaze their own trail to new frontiers.

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32:23Distilled, aged and bottled by Buffalo Tracedustillery. 90 proof, Franklin County, Kentucky, Buffalo Trace, American, family -owned, independent and perfectly untamed. Going back then too. Well, they had to run the whole show because basically the guys were just training. So they all the commerce and like the deals they were making to like, you know, okay, we're gonna make a trade deal with this. That was all done by the women because like the guys were like, no, we're gonna work out. It's kind of awesome in some ways. It's kind of awesome, but it's kind of crazy. And it's kind of crazy that it requires you to be gay to be the greatest army because that's the one element.

33:08How much do you love this person beside you? Yeah, you gotta love them with everything. Yeah, I'm gonna imagine the difference between you being with some random stranger on the street and a bunch of thugs attack the random stranger. How you would treat it versus if they attack the wife. Yeah, yeah. Do any thing to fight. It's different. It's totally different. I did that in Rebel Moon. There's a bit where I put that there's a part where Sophia's character says like that. They basically say they encouraged me to find a lover in the military academy because when the politics of war became too abstract like, okay, take that beach or like climb that mountain.

33:51A lot of times, you know, it's so just like why? Like there's no why, but like if you're, but if you have a lover who's next to you, who's your life, and if they get killed or they're in danger, you're gonna be back on it. You're back on it, yeah. And I think that it's an interesting, we don't, of course, in our modern society, we don't play with that aspect of, you know, in war. We try not to anyway, we seem not to. You know, like with using the relationship to create a bond. So it's an interesting, I mean, there's camaraderie, brotherhood, of course. But they've replaced that aspect of it with technology.

34:32Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, which is interesting. And maybe that's good, but. Maybe it is good, but I mean, I could imagine a world in the future where things go totally sideways, where we go back to that. Yeah, absolutely. We'll make a movie about it. I mean, that is a possible future dystopian movie. Like a new spardas, the spardas of the 2059. Well, as soon as like, you know, what is that Einstein thing? You know, four or three is fought with New York weapons. We're four, we fought with rocks. Yeah, sticks in rocks, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, well, if it's World War, the dozen, it's probably gonna wipe out the whole race.

35:05But if it's something else, there could be a, like everyone thinks of dystopias being something man created, which is real possible. But it's also possible we could have been an asteroid. Oh, yeah, absolutely. That's more possible, I think. That's more likely. I think we could fuck up and nuke each other, but it's probably not gonna happen. Because people have been really good about it since 1947. Yeah, they've been really nice. Congrats. Thank you. Yeah, good boy guys. I guess it was good work. But there's a giant difference between things that you can control and things you can't control. It's through diplomacy and people aging out.

35:39It's possible that we could never have a nuclear war. It's not possible. We're not gonna get hit. Oh, yeah, I know. That's why I mean, like I'm very much encouraged any NASA programs that are, you know, whether they got their telescopes pointed into the stars. And like, oh, here comes one. Let's see if we can go get it, you know. Nudge it, Nudge it. They're close. They're close to be able to do that. Neil DeGrasse Tyson, so they're about a decade away from being able to deflect asteroids. Yeah. That'll be a big deal. Yeah, but the hope is in that decade, that we don't get it. We miss one because some of them come in from behind the sun.

36:13Oh, yeah, yeah. No, they're like, oh, yeah, we don't. Yeah. That's not cool. Well, there's like, there's so much weirdness in space anyway. There's solar flares that could take out our whole grid and kill all our communication systems. And they just ran around. And also, the thing is like, we don't know, like say you had, say, we had one of those like 300 years ago, which in cosmic time is not that long ago. It's nothing. It's nothing. And we didn't have the infrastructure to know that it would happen. Like we were just the bunch of guys hanging out. So like we were just like, well, that's a weird, like the Aurora Borealis is pretty strong today.

36:45Yeah, that's cool. But now we're like, oh, shit, our computers are fried. So it's like a whole different, yeah. It's also now. The stakes are different. We have the ability to go and look at the data that they had from a couple hundred years ago and say it appears that there was an event. And the event, if it happened today, we would be fucked. Right. And we did not prepare for this event when we were constructing all this equipment. Well, because we, because also the equipment got built, it didn't get, it got built over time. It was like a slow, you know, this made this and this made that and we relied on this.

37:19So now we made this. Yeah, we're like, we don't, we built like our house of cards, like pretty, pretty, pretty quickly too. And the foundations the weakest part doesn't exist. I don't think there is a foundation. Because it's all dependent on the grid. I really don't think there is a foundation. Well, the foundation is what powers it and it's all dependent upon a grid. And the grid's very vulnerable, physically vulnerable, it's vulnerable to cyber attacks. I like that also. We were like, we thought we were geniuses by putting all that online. Like, oh, yeah, we'll make the grid automated. No, don't do that.

37:50It's much better when there was just a guy throwing switches. Yeah, he's not gonna, you can't do anything to him. Just guard that guy. Yeah, guard that guy. Give him a lot of money. I love that expression in the cloud. Bitch, where is this cloud? That cloud is in fucking Cleveland. What are you talking about? There's no cloud. Cloud is not a lot. That's such a lie. Stop calling it the cloud. That's a dirty lie. Oh, it's in the cloud. I just go get it. How do you say that? Why don't you say it's in the stars? Why don't you just lie to me and say it's in heaven? Tell me it's in heaven. Say it, die, die.

38:20All my photos are my baby. We can resurrect that. Yeah, we can resurrect that. My family, my dog, they're all in heaven. Print everything. I say print everything. That's my philosophy. Even the print everything. The real problem with us is all of our data is on hard drives. All of it. There's just paper books, hard drives, and that's it. So something big happens. Everything's useless and we start from scratch. Paper books are still kind of work, but. Yeah. A lot of the modern innovations are probably even in paper books. A lot of them. A lot of them. Well, it's funny because the movies, for instance, one of the things is I always archive a film print of all my movies because the digital storage of movies, if you ask anybody, even in the business, they don't know whether in 10 years you'll be able to play a movie that you have now, like whether you physically or what or how it degrades all those things they don't know.

39:16That's crazy. And so I'm like, that's why I make film prints because I'm like, I know that we keep it that we keep the film prints in the locker and you can at least pry them out and always have it. But like, I just think it's crazy that we don't know we don't know where the movies will exist. It's a crazy thing. Do we're about a Zack? It's in the cloud. Yeah, it's no fucking in the cloud. Cheers, cheers brother. Thanks for doing this man. Yeah, I know it's my pleasure. That's hilarious. It's in the cloud. Why are you worried? Yeah, that's a dirty expression that they should ban that expression though.

39:49They love that expression though. I know, but it's a dirty lie. There's no clouds. But it makes people feel safe because it's like, it makes them feel good because it's like, the cloud is so reliable and so like, and also a thing you don't need to worry about or understand. It's also beautiful. It's fluffy. It's in a blue sky. And all your info safe in there. Yeah. Nothing can hurt it except for everything. It's just a horseshit. It's so, it's so crazy. It's on hard drives. It's so crazy. And if you had to start from scratch, if you know, imagine stumbling upon some ancient Egyptian hard drives and go, okay, where do we even begin?

40:21You can't play it. You can't play it. What is this? You might be looking at it and you don't know, yeah. Yeah, how is it encoded? What is the equipment I need to connect it to in order to, does it play out loud? Do I see it? What is this? It's like experiencing my head. It's like when you show your kid a vinyl record, right? I show him my kids a vinyl record and they're like, this is incredible. How does it work? I'm like, well, the needle kind of bounces up and down on those grooves and makes the sound. It sounds like a song and they're like, that's in the same technology. I'm like, no, that's not in the same technology.

40:56Your iPod or your fucking phone? That's in same technology. That's a thing you can't, that doesn't even, you can't explain this to me, okay? I can, I just explained that to you. I love the fact that I'm in my car and like, like my daughter loves Melanie Martinez. So I have no idea what the song is. Tell me what the song is and she'll tell me what the song is and I could say, play Melanie Martinez, whatever the song is. And it just, it plays it. Instantly plays it. Unbelievable. Instantly. And it's coming through the speakers. And it sounds amazing. There's all this sound. God, that is incredible.

41:33It is incredible. It's bananas. Or you can say like, play Johnny Cash. Instantly. Instantly. Play Hurt. Yeah, play Hurt right now. Instantly. Instantly. And it just starts playing it. And you're like, oh God, why'd I say that? Yeah, why'd I say play Hurt? Play God's gonna cut you down. What a world that we live in.

41:58Instantly. By the way, I was just listening to that the other day. Is it gonna get us in trouble with YouTube? Is it? Oh, sorry. I did want to show you this picture of all Sandra's legs. If you harm it too well, it'll be. We were so much better off when we were trapped in our world, walled garden. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We got out and now it's over. Yes, it's fucking nuts, man. It's nuts. I think it's beautiful because I love the fact that you can tell me about something and I can get it instantly. Like someone could say, oh my God, you have to see. That's Sandra's legs. Oh my God. That's insane.

42:37He looks like he's gonna die. Yeah, and he loves that. That's particularly ridiculous. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, that's awesome. The guy has no body fat. Zero body fat. What is his body fat? The guy said to him, the guy at the gym said, are you 8 % body fat? He goes, if I was 8 % body fat, I'd kill myself.

42:54That's ridiculous. But that's his thing though. Like he literally is like, I'm in space. I'm like a space, you know, like we get stuff from the space program. You know, like they, like we figure out how a razor works or like get shaving cream that keeps the hairs from flying. That's what he is to me. Like he's like, I'm up here on the ragged edge so I can come, I could give you this information back. Oh, that's an interesting way of looking at it, right? Like you do learn health and wellness things from people that are in the world. They're on the fringes in the body building world. Yeah, and he's in his 60s.

43:23So it's like, you know, you're like, okay, this guy can have legs like that in his 60s. So give me some, give me a little, give me a little, you know, of the, give me a little of the knowledge. And he's funny too, because he's like, look, I don't have a family, I don't have kids. This is what I do. Jesus. You know, this is what I do. I just get jacked. Get jacked and I like research. I test my body constantly. He's like on the ragged edge with every single like, you know, like he's always making these small adjustments. He goes, I ate a sesame seed and I saw that I was a little less ripped. You know what I'm saying?

43:58You know. So ridiculous. You know what I, because it's like, oh, he's constantly like, you know, like, it's like he's on a razor's edge. You know what I, which I love, you know, people like that are too strange. Super beneficial to any sort of extreme sport. Well, that's what I mean. Like extreme sport, that's what I'm saying is that like, you can, the little that, that, those little pieces of information they tell you about like, oh, you know, like whatever I'm taking this or like, I thought about this and I experimented with that and you're like, okay, like, thanks, thanks for that. Thanks for being out there.

44:26Right. You know, thanks for being in the oxygen mask like up in on the stratus. Yeah, the possessed mad genius. Yeah, it's, by the way, the world's made of that. Oh, yeah. There's a guy out here in Austin, Texas, his name is John Donner. He's widely considered to be the greatest jujitsu coach ever. Oh, really? He's here. He's a professor. He was a professor of philosophy at Columbia. That's cool. And he was spending time as a bouncer, wanted to learn martial arts, got into jujitsu and became a jujitsu fanatic to the point where he's teaching it and sleeping on the floor. Did he have an actual gift for it?

45:02Anyway, like it was like a, well, he's a very strong guy. I thought we'll double, okay. He's very strong. He played rugby, but rugby destroyed his knee. He fucked his body up, but which kept him from ultimately competing. But he's just a crazy, mad genius. It doesn't give a fuck about anything but fighting. So all he's doing is like teaching people, had to strangle people during the day, and then watching tape and reviewing techniques and creating the next workout schedule. And they work out 365 days a year. 365 days a year. And his number one student is Gordon Ryan, who's widely considered to be the greatest jujitsu athlete of all time without question.

45:43That's his belt up there. The Abu Dhabi belt, when he went out with Abu Dhabi, but he's his number one student, and they just train 365 days a year. They take no days off. Christmas fuck you. The birthday fuck you. That's cool. And it's just cool. You've got days where you don't train as hard. Are you worn out? Well, you're not gonna train as hard today. Yeah. It's like you're saying like, yeah, like you understand but like at that point, you're in the rhythm, you understand your body, you know, like, okay, I'm hurt today. I know how to do this, but we're always learning. We're not gonna stop learning.

46:13We're not gonna stop understanding. That's the one thing that's crazy about YouTube too, is that this idea that there's a resource. You know, like it used to be to find a technique or to learn something, you have to go to the guy's house, fucking sleep on his porch. He's not gonna fucking train you. He's gonna slap you around like whatever. We're now like these kids today. They get like a lot of their shit, the basic shit. They can, they're like, I'm learning this. I can learn something that I had no access to. Absolutely. Zero access, which I think is incredible. I have a folder on my phone that's all Jiu Jitsu moves that I didn't know existed.

46:50And I just watched Jiu Jitsu move. I was like, how was he doing that? Left leg in. Oh, he went with the right arm. Wow, and then I'll send it to my friend Eddie Bravo's, a Jiu Jitsu instructor, I'll go, is this legit? And he goes, I'm gonna try this tonight. See ya. We'll text each other back and forth. So we're like, it's a constant new thing. There's the basics. Put it in the workshop, but let's see what happens. That kid could be, just all you need is a computer that connects to the internet and a friend. And you can get good at Jiu Jitsu. It's better to have private instruction. Of course.

47:21It's better to have a coach who, you know, when you're teaching your classes, you've got to make sure this arm is protected and keep this here. And you have to have the defense. You have to put your hand on the hip. If you don't have someone like that, it's gonna take you longer to figure it out. But if you are diligent and you're really dedicated and you have a fucking YouTube connection, you can get good at Jiu Jitsu. Yeah. I think that's the go to the mountain. That's what I mean. And that's true of a lot. That's true of a lot of things now. Like, look, I just, I had this, like recently, I had this crazy Fortnite addiction right now.

47:52It was like, yeah, I started playing. I could get it. I started playing Fortnite with my son who's 10 and he was like, nah, he tapped out immediately. And I was like, well, you should come back because I'm just, this is kind of cool. So I'm playing and then like, you know, three months later, I'm like, what the fuck is matter with me? Like, my wife is like, you got to stop. I am done with this. I am done. You and I are the same thing. I go, I'm so, she's like, I'm so done. You need another fucking hobby. I like, and so she's like, I bought you some clay, right? Oh. And so I started doing some pottery, right?

48:23And that's where I was like, oh, YouTube is insane. Like, cause I just, in like three weeks, I had done, like all, so now she's like, every, every search engine is like, hand -build pottery, like glazing, firing kilns. Oh, that's cool. So yeah, so I have much more productive. It's much, well, by the way, I get something at the end. Like, I feel better. I feel so much better. Feeling the, you give me video games for 12 hours in a row. You feel terrible when you're over. You feel sick, you're stuck. It's literally too, like, and you have something good having you're like, yeah, like, I'm like, fuck, yes.

48:56And my, I look over and my wife is like in the doorway going like, what's wrong with you? Are you serious? You're a grown ass man. You do not be making a movie right now or like, writing something or doing something. Well, it's important for people to know that even people who are successful movie makers are still going to get addicted to those goddamn things. They're heroin. They're too good. They're so good. They're so well made. We had a giant quake problem. And I had a giant quake problem for years, and I quit. And I quit cold turkey. When I realized it was like, just, I was playing eight, 10 hours a day.

49:27You can't see the hours. That's what does it, when you see the hours, when you see like a total number of hours that you've played, you're like, okay, I'm, yeah, what could I've could've written a novel? I literally could've done so much. I could've done so much. So I stopped, but then when we had a new studio in Los Angeles, we had a big warehouse and we said, let's put a fucking land in here. So we put a local area network and bought some gaming computers and set it up for quake and instantly I was a junkie again. Back scratch in my face. I was fucking every day. We were playing three, four hours a day.

50:00It was nuts. It was nuts. It's, see, it just gets right into your, it's too good. It's too good. They're good at it. Well, I saw that you're better like you're, you're racing. Simulator racing. I haven't even hopped on that. You've had it for over a week. The problem with it is it's too, it's like racing. Yeah. The one thing I did like, I saw this the other day where they had the, one of the F1 guys went against like some, some kid and he beat him. And I was like, that makes me happy. On the racing simulator. On the racing simulator. Yeah. And I was like, that made me happy. Well, only just because, you know, you want that skill set, you want in your mind that skill set to translate.

50:38Yes. Like you're like, see. I was watching this thing. Still matter. I'm not one driver's like all the different things that they have to be able to do. Their response time is so much faster than anyone else's. They had this thing where they have the lights and the lights go off and you have to touch the light when it goes off. And the Formula One race car drivers were like off the charts. Oh really? And they all have, they all have crazy, thick necks. Oh yeah, from this. Because it's just, and also the helmet's not light, you know, it's like a serious, yeah. That's a fucking serious piece of weight up here.

51:05Bounce in your head around. No, it's fucking crazy. Wippin' around, I'm sure you've seen the comparison between a GT3 car and then a Formula One car on the same track. No, no it's not. It's wild. What is the difference? A GT3 car looks amazing. And then the Formula One car like, no way. That's not real. This is real time. Oh, as far as like it being able to stick to the track where like, it's so much faster. It's so much faster. It's so much faster. And you're the time that you have watched this. So on the left side, you have the GT3 cars. These are, so these are just GT3 cars. No, that's the, oh the, the ride is the GT3 car.

51:38The left is the Formula One car. Look how much faster it's gone. Yeah, it's gone. The fucking insane. I mean, they're so fast and the way they hug, I went to the Coda, the Formula One race out here. Here, yeah. It's insane to see it live. You see it live, you really appreciate it. She's like, oh my God. My daughter Willow's addicted to Formula One. She's like, I sent her down two years ago to it. And it was like, like, you don't look at that. See? That's so fast. That sound too. That's amazing. Yeah, like the GT3, they're not even moving in comparison. Yeah, it's not even close. Yeah, I sent it out because at the time Formula One was wanting me to, we were going to do a film.

52:19I was going to do like a commercial for them, you know, that I was in middle of pitching them. And they were like, oh, can we send you down to Austin to the race. And I said, you know, I can't because I'm in the middle of this thing, but you would send my daughter. And Willow was like, she had like pit access. She was like losing her mind. She's calling me every five minutes. Like, are you insane? Look at theirs. There's like, you know, Hamilton, I can't believe you're right there. And I was like, okay, calm down. Don't be a groupie. I like, I want you to like, she has like a tattoo of like Formula One like a car.

52:45Yeah, she's really into it. Well, I know that Netflix series out here in America made it way more popular in America. But because it didn't make any sense, it was so popular worldwide, but not popular in a place that's most obsessed with cars. Yeah, like makes no sense. You feel like we would just be like drinking the cool later that's so hard. Well, all our thing is just going around circle real quick. Like our thing is so silly in comparison. Like NASCAR. Yeah, no, it's crazy. And you think that like we would dig like this kind of all the turns and like insane technology. It's like feels like it's right on our willhouse.

53:19And maybe it and I think it can be. Well, it turns out it is. It's just got to take you know, and something like it has something like a Netflix special has to happen for it. It's like what happened with the UFC with the ultimate fighter. The UFC was always like crazy exciting, but then the ultimate fighter put it on television. And everybody's like, wow, this is cool. And you get to like invest in a personality. Yes, I think that's in the end, Americans love that they want that they want to hook on to someone and ride them, you know, through the whole thing. Yes, yes, yes, yeah, that's the fun.

53:50They want to get connected to that person and root for them and feel the journey, especially the ultimate fighter was such a brilliant idea because you get these guys to live in a house together and then they're going to beat the fuck out of each other. And they know they know they're going to have to fight. So there's all this psychological warfare going on. There's like chest puffing and there's so much weird shit happening. Yeah, it's by the way, it's a great it's a great show. And also because like the drama, if you have fighting and drama together, it's kind of a it's kind of like amazing.

54:20You can't you can't look away. And it's real fighting. And it's absolutely real. Yeah, like you know, there's not like vogue and around. And these guys are fighters, you know what I mean? Like that's the thing. It's not like you got a bunch of schmucks and said, okay, you guys getting a ring and sort of see what you can see what happens. Yeah, these guys suddenly are like, and guys have gone from that show to become world champions. Absolutely. Which is wild. That's cool. Yeah, it's very and you're like, oh, yeah, I saw them when they were when they were just like scrapping around the house, you know, it's cool to see them like rise like that.

54:50It's a it's it's it's an amazing show. It's it's cool. Well, there's a few things like that like Formula One racing and fighting that it just has to get in front of enough eyes. It's just we have these things that we've always like baseball. That's always been around. If you brought baseball out today, it doesn't have a chance. No chance at all. No chance. Golf. I think golf would still make it. Well, also because it's a ludicrous concept golf. That's what I love about it's like, and I, you know, I'm an okay golf. I've done a lot of golf commercials. My dad's a scratch golf. He's an amazing. You don't like a commercial.

55:23Yeah, back in the day, you know, like, because when I got out of college, I did like 10 years of of TV commercials, you know. And every day like all I did all I've done every all the brands. Every like I've done a bunch of super bowl spots. I did the like Clizetale 9 -11 Tribute spot. Like there's a lot of all these kind of for me that were all these like kind of touch -hunts. But along the way, I did like, you know, PGA, I did title list. I did like all these like, you know, I have a tour bag, like in storage that says like, Zach Daddy's Snyder on it, like on my tour bag. So, but like the guys like you see these like, I mean, they are like Phil Mickelson is like an insane like, he does this trick where you stand with your hands like this, you know?

56:13And then he's behind you with this pitching wedge and he takes a full swing and cuts it. If he skulls it, it's gonna crack you in the back and skull. But it goes over your head and lands in your hands, right? What? What was it standing right in front of you? I haven't seen the landing in hands, but this kind of video goes. Yeah, it's literally this watch. I'm just gonna do it right. He's gonna do it like.

56:35Oh my God. See like I learned, see that? Yeah, it's like that's the trick. I did a spot with Phil. Oh, fuck that. I did a spot with him where he, I did a spot for him. I think it was it was for, it was with David Robinson for the PGA tour and he was sick. He had like a hundred degree temperature. And like what it was was basically we did, they said though these guys are good, it was was the name of the campaign. And it was like all these football players and like golf would be, it was a ludicrous idea. But golf would be in these scenarios. And this was basketball. It was like one second left, you know, up Phil Mickelson comes in to play the basketball game.

57:15They're gonna play with a golf ball. And they throw in the ball. The ref throws the golf ball to him. And he's, he catches the ball on his, on the blade of his pitching wedge, traps it on the ground and then hits, picks it off the gym floor, you know, and the ball flies up and then David Robinson dunks it. That was the commercial. So he's sick and he's like, Zach, I don't know man. Oh, also we did a version of it where we had made the floor about a ball so would so he could take a divot. And then the PGA was like, well, we don't want to look like it's, they were kind of mad because they were like, we don't want to look like we're destroying property.

57:58I was like, come on guys, it's like cool. I think it's cool that he digs the floor up, right? They can fix wood. Yeah, it's also not real, you know, like you can't, you can't actually do that. That's funny. Yeah, it was cool. They were that sensitive. But like Phil comes out and he's like, Zach, sorry man, I'm sick. Like, I don't know. Like I go, well, let's just try, you know, do what you can and like, well, it'll only be a couple shots and so he's like, I'll do the best I can. So like, you know, he threw on the ball and he's, he just like cuts it in the air and you know, like he, he like cuts it in the air and then he traps it with his club and like, holy shit.

58:29And he's like, how's that? I'm like, how's that? I'm like, I'm like, unbelievable. He was like, I'm sorry. I'm like, I don't know what you would do different. Like it's so crazy. So interestingly, you see wizardry at that level. Like the technique and the perfection of it at that level is incredible. You're like, I don't even play golf and I can appreciate it. Yeah, John Dele too. Like we had, I did a spot with John Dele too and he was like, he's like, he comes out, you know, and I guess the tournament before the one we had done before the shoot that we did, we were doing it in in Kaminsky Park in Chicago, right?

59:02And he was, the idea on that one was like, he's, you know, top of the nine two outs down by three bases loaded, whatever, whatever, you know, in picture, here comes John Dele, right? And so what we did was, so the idea was like, we had this like minor league picture was supposed to throw a pitch and he's, you know, we did it with visual facts. He takes the ball of the air. So what we did was we got this super long tee, right? And we put the ball on it. And I was like, John, do you think you can, can you hit a drive with a two foot tee? Like that sounds crazy. He's like, I fucking, no problem. But like when he came out, he was mad because he had picked up his ball.

59:40Like, you know, he got fined by the PGA. If you pick up your ball halfway through the tournament, you can't just leave. They don't like that. And I guess he was having a bad round. And so he just said, fuck it. And he just picked up his ball and walked off. And they were like, so they find him. And he was super mad that he got fined. And so he goes, he goes, I'm gonna fuck up that jumbo tron. And I was like, I was like, John, I go, that's me. I don't have to pay for it. It's not the PGA. And then he was like, he's like, oh man, I'm so sorry. Like, okay, I won't hit it. I didn't know. Like I thought, you know, he's like the sweetest guy.

1:00:13And then he just like, he just cranks this. He's like our baby. Like he literally, I've done a bunch of spots with him. You know, like on his, like on his backswing, the club head is pointing down at the ground because he's so twisted. And then he just uncoils. And it's just unbelievable the amount of power that the guy, and he hits the ball out of the stadium. And it goes literally, we had PAs in the parking lot. And they're like, the ball just goes over their heads and like into the freeway. You know, he's just a frickin'. Jamie, do you have that video that I sent you recently of that guy? This, there's this fucking guy who does this step in.

1:00:57Oh right, sure like the happy Gilroy. It's not quite that bad. Not quite that, but with technique and it's perfect. And the drive is insane. And the torque is insane. Again, it's coming from someone who doesn't know, jack shit about golf. Look at this kid. Jesus. Jesus. I mean, that is fucking insane. The fact that he can actually, with that amount of backswing, the fact that he can actually hit the ball cleanly is unbelievable. Is he from, is that Chinese? I don't know about, I don't know. It looks like Japanese to me. Is it Japanese? Is it? There's a lot of, I mean, it's very popular in Japan.

1:01:42Yeah, his name is Japanese. Yeah, but that's unbelievable. That's fucking technique is mad. That's so cool. Let me hear that again. Is this sound? Yeah, sound is awesome. That's where there, that could be, there's balls that do that. Bro, I don't give a fuck what does that. Look at how it ends. The club ends in front of his face. Yeah, past his face. There's left shoulder. It's so much whip on the, it's amazing. That's crazy, but yeah, that's fun. That's fun. It was fun actually that time in my life traveling around and doing all those TV commercials all over the world. Like I had a crew of guys.

1:02:19It was like me and my boys, and we would just like literally go one job, pop a new guinea, one job, Germany, one job, Mexico, one job, Iceland. Like over and over, we were just on the road completely out of our minds and it was just, you know, and like whatever product we'd be like, okay, I'd be pitching the guys be like, what do we do next? I'm like, I gotta get on a call. We like have an agency and I get on the call in the hotel room and I pitch them and I'd be out of my mind and I don't know what I'm saying. And I'd come out and be like, how'd it go? And I think I got it. And they were like, did you nail it?

1:02:53And I was like, yeah, I told them it's gonna be like, low angles and slow motion and it's fucking cool. And they were like, okay, cool, let's go. And it was just this, we were just in this machine. And frankly, I learned everything, like I spent 10 years, you know, like the 10 ,000 hours thing. It literally, I spent 10 years with every production problem because I was a director of photography, I was a DP and the director. And, you know, we were a pretty small show, you know, but we had giant clients, anything you can think of. So then when I went to make a movie, it wasn't like, there was no, there was no thing I hadn't seen, you know?

1:03:33It wasn't like, I stepped on a set, like, all in my first time director, everyone's like, oh, this guy's a first time director. Like, what's he gonna say? And I'd be like, there was like, the tools were my tools, you know what I mean? Like, I was very comfortable with the tool set that I had in front of me. Like, more so than I probably should have been. You know, I remember, Matt Lianetti, who was the DP of Dawn of the Dead, that was my first movie, was like, halfway through the thing, he's like, you know, you know what you're doing? Like, you know what I mean? Like, you know what you're doing?

1:04:07Like, he goes, they can't fire you now. Because like, we were halfway through, because like, I was so diligent. Like, on my first movie, I was so scared, you know, Scott Stubber, who was the executive at Netflix, who was my executive on Army of the Dead, he was the one that hired me to do Dawn. And I was so, I wanted to do such a, like, I wanted to be so conscientious. And I was so scared of like going over budget and not nailing it and making sure it was cool and all that. That like, Matt Lianetti at one point was like, look man, like, you gotta just fuck it, you know? You're, it's your, make it cool now.

1:04:47Don't give a fuck, just make it, do what you think. And it was such great advice, because I think the movie's edge and all the coolness in the movie and the man comes around and all that like, weirdness, the whole like montage with the Richard Cheese song in the middle, that was all just me going, all right, good. Thanks, Matt, I'm gonna just go. And he goes, good, because like, you know, because otherwise he goes, you're just gonna make a movie that this zombie movie is gonna disappear, you know? Unless you fucking add your sauce. Yeah, go, you gotta add your sauce, because he goes, otherwise it's like, look, another zombie movie like, who cares?

1:05:19Right. He goes, he goes, I know you know what's cool. Well, you made it fun. I think that that was the whole thing. For me, it was like, how do you make a B movie that's self -aware that it's a B movie, right? And in that self -awareness, it lets you off the hook to enjoy it, because you can still be smart, like you deconstructed the genre. Because like, I've always been fascinated with genre and the deconstruction of genre. Like, I'm a genre filmmaker. I always say it to everybody, like, people like, what kind of, I'm a genre filmmaker? Like, and that is to say that like, in genre though, you can explore like philosophy, you can explore mythology, especially, which is like, myth is like my main, like we make myth, modern myth, movies are modern myth, superhero movies are modern myth.

1:06:07Like, is it not the same when you say, like, we have Superman, right, and Batman, whatever. Are they not the mythic answer to the modern, a lot of modern questions about like, how we should live? You know, like, you say, Superman, is he not, and like, an invention, a 20th century invention that says to us, like, all the fucking shit that we run up against, whether it be war or like, class struggle, or whether it be, you know, interrelationships between different countries, does Superman not appear in answer to us primitive brains trying to figure out what the where we are? Like, you make a guy like Superman, so he can answer some of those questions.

1:06:58He can represent a point of view that is not helpless in the face of the insanity that is like, you know, the problems of the 20th century. And I think, and Batman in the same way, he's an answer to like, urban, what is urban, the urban jungle needs a myth, you know, just like the ancient jungle needed a myth or the ancient, you know, those all, like, in those days, we'd say like, why is the volcano erupting, right? But now we say, because we didn't know, you know, we're just like, I guess it's the gods are mad, you know? Right. And so now we have, now the problem is like, why am I, why do I feel helpless in the face of technology or whatever, you know, so we need an answer, we need an additional answer.

1:07:43And I think that's what, and that's what I've always, and I feel like genre has allowed me to make those comments, you know, and I think, and you know, look, the funny thing about, you know, what I always find interesting, you know, the thing that I always find fascinating about, sort of the movies I've made and how they've landed on pop culture, is that like, I remember like, in the last article, it was like, it said, Zack Snyder love him or hate him, right? Like, and I'm like, hate him, like, what, I don't understand. Like, what, it's just, it's a movie, you know, like, it's not, I mean, you look at Rebel Moon, you're like, okay, well, there's not a lot, it's not, it's not weird enough, it's not offensive enough to hate him for, right?

1:08:28In my opinion, people find a reason to hate today. Oh yeah. Yeah, and 99 % of those people also hate themselves. That's exactly what's going on, and when people are very hateful over art, you could like it, you don't like it. I don't, there's a lot of stuff I don't like. I have no issue with you not liking the movie, that's not the, that's not the question, who cares? The thing is like, you, you would personalize, you'd hate me because I'm like, I don't understand that. Like, I don't, I mean, I'm unreasonably successful. That's what, that's how they feel, and that's what, what happens with people, you've done so many hit movies like, fuck this guy.

1:09:07Like, people compare themselves to someone like yourself that's been so successful, and they get angry. That's why you can't read comments. Yeah, I get, no, that's why the promise comes. Never read comments are, you know, they're essentially long form comments, or what a lot of articles are. Yeah. It's the same thing. It's these people that are film snobs that get, you know, very pretentious about certain aspects of movie making, and decide that their way is the only way. Like, listen, I like the Barbie movie, okay? I found it enjoyable. I went with my daughters, and I had a good mindset. I said, let me just enjoy this movie.

1:09:44Just not be like, put the fuck is this? Man, didn't fuck this, I just said, it's a fun movie. Yeah. It didn't offend me. I laughed a bunch of times. I thought it was fun. And I went online and saw so many people angry about that fucking movie, and it was all men. Yeah, and as it would be, listen, first, you're out of your fucking mind if you go to a Taylor Swift concert and expect to see ACTC. You're out of your fucking mind. You're going to a Taylor Swift concert. You know what it is. So if you go to see the Barbie movie, you know what it is. Why you mad? Yeah, you know what? Like, were you shocked?

1:10:24Like, it's literally about a Barbie girl's dog. Yeah, what did you think was going to happen in it? Also, and I, by the way, I love the movie, and I'm actually lampooned in that film. There's a line in the movie that says, I feel like I feel like I was in a dream where all I cared about was the Zack Snyder cut of Justice League. That is a line in that movie. That's hilarious. Literally, and I'm like, that's awesome. Like, I have no, I think that that I was like, okay, my wife was like, she goes, that's cool, right? Like, that's cool. That they came after you. I was like, as 100 % cool. Yeah, it's fun.

1:11:00Yeah. It was a, it was interesting, but it's interesting to see when there's such a strong reaction to certain things. And especially amongst like really wild hardcore fans, because there's hardcore, like it was pretty like, I know. Yeah, you fit. Well, you also face it because you cover these, genres, you cover these subjects that are iconic, Superman, Batman, I mean, just those alone. No, no. And by the way, that's a lifestyle choice for a lot of people. It's not a movie. Right. Right. It's not a movie. It's like, if I made a romantic comedy, you'd be like, okay, that was fun. Right. Like, the people who love, and by the way, I love that they feel this passionately.

1:11:48I'm not in no way what I criticize that because I feel I live the same life. Because like, it's for me, it's morning, noon and night. But so for those guys, it's not just a movie. And so you have to on some level, you have to acknowledge that they, this is their religion, you know, and they feel strongly about it. And by the way, the truth is it's my religion too. You know, so it's a, it's a, it's a, I tend to get in trouble because of my, I do take a deconstructivist point of view because of dark night returns, because of watchmen, those, if you've read those two comics, it's hard to go back, you know, to like, you, you want to, and it's because I care that I want to take them apart.

1:12:34Like I want Batman. Like people are always like, well, Batman, Batman can't kill, right? So Batman can't kill his cannon. And I'm like, okay, with the first thing I want to do when you say that, because I want to see what happens. And they go like, well, don't put him in a situation where he has to kill someone. I'm like, well, that's just like, you're protecting your God in a weird way, right? You're making your God irrelevant if he can't be in that situation. He has to now deal with that. You know, if he does do that, what does that mean? What is it? What does it, what does it tell you? But does he stand up to it?

1:13:11Can he survive that? Right? As a, as a God, as your God, combat me in the way. I never thought that that was cannon. That Batman can't kill, but that's what I'm talking about. Well, for a lot of people it is. That seems ridiculous, given the circumstances in which he operates. And all the webtoons in the comments right now. Don't read the comments. Yeah. That seems ridiculous. Well, I mean, and you know, there's this huge like, there's, so in Dark Knight Returns, there's a scene where, and I copied it kind of in Batman for Superman, where he grabs the M60, he busts through the wall, and he grabs the M60, and he's like, the guy's like, in the comic book, he's like, got this kid.

1:13:54The mutant has this kid with a gun to his head, and he's like, I'll kill him, I swear, I'll do it. And Batman says, I believe you, and he shoots a, straight in the head. Because it's like a no -win scenario. It's like the Kobayashi Maru of, you know, the Kobayashi Maru is that in Star Trek, it's that test they put Kirk through, where there's a no -win, right? Because they want to see how you'll react, right? So they say, okay, we're gonna make a, we're gonna make a scenario, a test scenario, where you don't win, where there's no way to win. And in that situation, we find out what you would do in a no -win situation, because if you're gonna be the commander of this spaceship, you have to, you're gonna be in situations where, you know, it's life or death, and especially when there's no tricking it, right?

1:14:38There's no tricking death in this case. And the famous thing with Captain Kirk is he, he went and hacked the machine and made it so there was a, a solution. And so that was his response to the no -win situation was create a scenario where he wins, which is a cool character, you know, that's a cool character move, but that's kind of how I felt. That's what they would say, don't do that to Batman. Don't put him in a no -win situation, because we don't want to see him lose, like we can't see him lose. He has to maintain this God -like status. And that's what the cool thing about Frank Miller, Frank Miller said, fuck it, I'm gonna like, I wanna see who this guy, like if a guy, so you're saying to me that I've got a gun to this kid's head, you're Batman, there's no move, there's no trick, there's no throwing the battering, there's no dust ball to distract me.

1:15:36Like I've just got to pull the trigger and I kill this kid. So you're saying in that scenario, what Batman's supposed to do, right? Yeah, he's gonna lay down his gun, what's he gonna do? Like the guy says to him, I'll do it, I swear it. I believe you is perfect. Yeah, I believe you. I believe you. So I'm just like, that's where Frank Deacon takes Batman and just tears him in half. And you've got to now come out the other side of that. And Batman is still the hero. But Batman still does the right thing. He maintains his code, he doesn't change, but like our perception of him changes. And I think that's like a, that's the, and I have run a foul of, but a lot of the fandom who have, I feel like who have like gotten to the same place I have with the characters where they need to test them.

1:16:33And I feel like the characters, it's been my experience that the characters have not let us down. Like these myths have not let us down. They have, they've made, they, you put them to the ragged edge into that scenario and they come out the other side and you're like, fuck yeah, there's a reason why Superman is Superman. You know what I mean? Yeah. There's a, like he can handle it. He can fucking take it because he's so iconic. Like you see like the red S, you go anywhere in the world with that Superman t -shirt on anywhere. And you say to any kid like, what's this? Oh, that's Superman. Yeah, exactly.

1:17:07Like you know, that means something. That's like fucking cool. Well, not only that, it's one of our first ever superheroes. Literally. Yeah, I mean, just think of the name. It's so unoriginal. Superman. It's the most, you couldn't think of that today. That's not a big deal. You can't, you can't do that today. I know if you tried to come up with a Superman today, I've been a shot for a while. Superman, that's horrible. That's your guy. Yeah. You know, come on, man. We've got so many different interesting characters out there. That's why the Trinity Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman are so powerful, because they're literally obviously the origin concept, right?

1:17:41Wonder Woman? Literally, yeah. Batman is the only anomaly because he's like a Batman. Like what does that mean? What does he just even have powers? Yeah, he's just like a half bat. Like what is that? Just got a lot of money. Yeah, he's got a lot of money. Yeah. That was like my favorite thing we did in Justice League where Bruce says that line about like when Flash says like, what's your power? And he's like, I'm rich. I always thought that was cool. Kind of crazy that no one decided to genetically experiment on a Batman. Like make a Batman. Yeah, but for another version of Batman. Like take a guy and hit him with some Wolverine juice or whatever the fuck.

1:18:20Oh, other animals. Just turn him into a superhero. Yeah. Instead of having just be a rich guy, give him some crazy genetic mutations, some thing that they do to him that turns him into something. But I think that and that is the thing. I mean, not to that extent, but that's the thing that Frank does. And that's the reason why I wanted Aflac because like to me Batman's a big dude, right? Aflac 6 '4, you know, he's like a legit big dude. And you know, like in the shoes, the boots are like two inches. So like he's literally almost like, you know, 6 '6 in the costume. Like when he comes out in the costume with that little bit of, I mean, we put some muscle on him and then there's a muscle suit under the suit.

1:19:01And he's like, he's like legitimately a scary looking thing. You know, he's just like standing there and you're like, holy shit. Like dude, the chin is so insane in that cowl. You know, he, I mean, look at him. He's like, you know, he's, I took that picture by the way. You know, he's like legitimately, like that's Batman to me. I mean, I don't know like what you know, Christian Bale was a great Batman. He's a great Batman, but he's still like, you know, you know, 5 '10." You know, it's, it's, it's cool. I mean, not to be, I'm not, I'm not being, I'm not being rude about, like, Batman giant in the comic world.

1:19:38In, in, in, in some of the, like in, in Dark Knight Returns and in, in Frank's comics and like, you know, in the classics, he's pretty big dude. You know, he's always been pretty, like in Dark Knight Returns, if you look at Dark Knight Returns, you know, like he's, there's a line like where he's trying to hold someone's gun and his finger can't get in the trigger guard because he's so big. You know, like, like where he's like, you know, I like things like that. Like where you're just like, he's like, he has this, this genetic, like gift of just being this big fucking dude. And other than that, you know, his parents were murdered in front of him.

1:20:14And he's also like a billionaire. So like that, that weird, like you, you want it to not be just one of those things. Right. Right. It needs to be all of them in order for him to really, to do what he can do. But if somebody really wanted to fuck around with the genre today, if he had all that money, wouldn't he invest in some wild genetic engineering that turns him into an actual superhero? Yeah, so it's fine. Well, I, I think that that, that's the real, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the point of hair. Yeah, like they don't like their hair. Oh, saying, your parents are steroids.

1:20:46Not just steroids. Not just steroids. Not just steroids. You wish you was steroids. Yeah, I'm talking something way crazier. Well, it's funny because like I did that scene. Like there's that scene. I think it's it, I don't think it's in the, it might be in the theatrical, but it's definitely in the director's cut. We're like, he's wakes up and there's some chicken in the bed with him that, from the night before, because like I always say, like, you know, Batman fucks to forget, for sure. You know, Batman's a drunk, for sure. You know, because like he has huge trauma, right? And I think that like, you know, you wonder why it's a playboy's, because like, you know, like anybody, like that's a common, you know, fucking forget is a common, that's a real thing.

1:21:19That's a way to deal with trauma. You know, and I think that like, I have that there's that bit he wakes up and there's like, just painkillers on his bedside table and he's just like, pop some and drink some wine. I'm just like, you know, to me that's, that's like, that's like Batman. You know, like he's, you know, he's got a, he's got a maple thorap above the bed. He's got his glass house. And he's just like, he has a, he has an aesthetic that's like clean. But like, that's all he does. That's like his life, you know, like he, the thing about Batman, the modern versions of Batman, the Miller Batman, your Batman's, what's interesting is that now superheroes are these flawed, like very, very distressed characters.

1:22:03Sure, sure, sure. Like the watchman is the best example. They're all, watchman is all trauma. It's all trauma and it's, they're all crazy. They're completely crazy. And it's, it's such a good mood. Why the fuck was there never a watchman too? Well, because, you know, frankly, the comic book doesn't exist. For me, that's why there wasn't. I, I, I just was like, the thing that's awesome about also that, it's one of those things like when you start to really, you know, look at like Night Owl, not being able to get it up because he's not, he's not in his costume. Like that's just a cool, to me, that's just like a, that's like pure, that's like, that's boiling down superhero to its fucking purest thing.

1:22:44I don't get turned on unless I like, I gotta go out, fucking save some people, do some crime fighting and now I'm fucking ready to go. You know, like that, that to me was like, that's, that's, that was like, that, that's, that as a superhero movie, as a concept took a long time to like, like land with the boys or like these other kind of superheroes work. Now it's cool to deconstruct superheroes. It's kind of fun. Everyone's having a good time with it. Right. And I was doing it whatever, almost, you know, 15 years ago. And you know, it just, I just don't think superheroes were as deep in the culture as they are now, were like all those things with land, you know, like all that deconstructive kind of work that we were doing at the time was really in reference to comic books, not comic book movies, because watchman was written, you know, in response to the comic book industry, not necessarily comic book movies didn't exist when the, when the book was written.

1:23:45Right. You know, so it's a very much, you know, Alamoor was very much obsessed with the morality of comic book heroes within comic books. And so, and he, he just took an adult look at it, you know, he's a smart genius, he's a fucking pure genius. Well, that was the thing that people figured out along the way with graphic novels as well, was that comic books aren't just a thing that children like, you know, I was a giant comic book fanatic when I was a kid, and I wanted to be a comic book illustrator. That's what I wanted to do. Oh, cool. Oh, that's awesome. And I had one bad high school art teacher and it ruined it for me.

1:24:19Fucking guy. Fucking guy. He ruined it for my friend John DeVore who was the most talented guy in the class. When I found out that he gave him an F, I was like, are you out of your fucking mind? This guy was so talented. Wow. And he was like, I was pretty good, and he was quite a bit better than me. And then there was a guy named Kevin, who's in our class. It was also really good. And all of us wanted to be comic book artists. And I was really into the more adult versions of it. Like, there was some amazing, like, horror genre comic books back in the day. Like Creepy and Erie that had these incredible, like, frizzetta covers on the, have you ever seen Creepy and Erie?

1:24:59Sure. Sure. Yeah. God. Love those things. I'll tell you my, sorry, go ahead and finish your, uh, no, no, no, no, no. Cause you want, oh, so what I was going to say was that, like, I was obsessed with, um, growing up this comic book called Heavy Metal. Yes. And heavy metal is like my thing. Basically what happened was my mom, I had bought, I was like 13 or whatever. And I, maybe 12 even. I bought a copy of Heavy Metal, whoever sold it to me. Cause you know, it says adult illustrated fantasy magazine, right underneath, like in kind of small letters, but it's there. Right. I would cover it with my thumb when my mom was around.

1:25:36Um, but she, one Christmas, like, got me, uh, subscription to Heavy Metal. Did she know she didn't know she just thought it was a cool comic book. Right. And I didn't say anything. Of course. And that really, that comic book, and I, and when you see the R -rated version of Rebel Moon when it comes out, um, because basically the deal I made with Netflix was, they said, I wrote this script, and I said, this is a script I want to make. And they said, that is insane. And I said, yeah, but it's like, it's a heavy metal, but like, but like in, you know, live action. Yeah. And they were like, yeah. Is there any way it could be PG 13?

1:26:16And I was like, wow, if it's PG 13, it kind of misses the whole point a little bit. But I can imagine that, you know, for a mass audience, and for like, you know, viewership, that seems like the smart way to go. I go, what about this? What if we make, if I make, take this script, I make you a PG 13 version that you can just blast into the world, and hopefully many people see it as possible. And then you let me, as in bonus, you just let me make this version exactly as I think. And they were like, okay, that sounds cool. So coming at the end of the summer, you'll see my two, three hour versions of Rebel Moon that are like, hard, R -rated, the hardest stuff.

1:26:59Which you wanted to do. Which I exactly wanted to do. So they said, yeah, go do that. And so they, they were able, because normally when I do this, directors cuts, you know, which is the thing now I'm weirdly famous for, the directors cuts were always an answer to a thing that the studio made me do. Right? Like, here's my movie. They're like, yeah, we really want you to cut these parts out, because they're not cool. They're like, the movies too long, or the movies too violent, or whatever. And I would be like, wow, really? Because I really think that's kind of the why of the movie. And they'd be like, no, it's really important.

1:27:34The focus groups told us that they don't like that. So take it out. So I take it out. But then I'd go like, you know, I'd go over to home video right across the street. And I'd be like, hey, guys, you want another movie to release? Because I got the shit. And they'd be like, absolutely, whatever you say. Because, you know, at that time, there was a huge market for directors. It gave him a second kick at the can in home video. So they would be like, that's so cool. We get a whole other movie to market that like never before seen footage. You know, it just feels like a cool thing. And so that was how I've always done my directors, because always as a response to what the studio was telling me couldn't be in the movie.

1:28:14Because I never planned. I would always go into it like, bright eyed. Like, oh, everyone's going to love this. It's clearly, you know, the studio. When you see my cut, you're going to think it's amazing. And they would like, look at it and go like, bro, like that's no, like this too much. And so that's what, that's where my director's cut is kind of, as a, just as a practice, we're born, you know, it was born out of that me needing to show the world what I intended originally. And so, you know, by the time now that I've got to Netflix with this Rebel Moon movie, and my sort of, the mythology around my director's cuts was kind of a thing, especially with Justice League, as you can imagine.

1:28:57They were like, you know what? Why don't we do a director's cut as part of the process, rather than as a response to it? And I was like, that's really smart. Like, that's really cool, because in a lot of ways, I totally get the economics of making a PG -13 version of this insane genre movie. Because what I'm asking, you know, from a budgetary standpoint is high for like a boutique -y space movie that's like, you know, a heavy metal comic, you know? That's like a, people who love that will love it more than anything else, right? If I can land that, they'll think it's the coolest thing ever. But like for a mass audience, it might not be exactly what you would imagine.

1:29:39So I'm like, I can do both. And that's kind of what, and that's kind of where I, and that's why when you see the R -rated version of Rebel Moon, you're gonna be like, fuck, this is heavy metal. Like, come to life is really what it is. And that's kind of what I really wanted to do. That was the thesis of my whole like me being turned on by the sci -fi, because like the thing you can do, I feel like the thing that you can do with that format was you could really deconstruct sci -fi. Like we always talk about like, I said this at the director's because I was like, when Luke Skywalker walks into the cantina and like is confronted by walrus man, like, is that sexual?

1:30:21Like is that, is he like, he's fucking with Luke. Luke's like some farm boy in this bar, in this rough bar. Like what's gonna happen to Luke? Like that's a conversation you cannot have in the context of Star Wars. Right? There's no chance. But like in heavy metal, that's real. Yeah. That threat is real. Yeah. You know, and it's not, and it's not anything other than like a naive farm boy walking into like a gritty city bar that he doesn't know what the fuck. He has no, he's out of his element other than that he's our hero. Right. And he's got to go through a crucible and he's got to learn. You know, he's got to like, these are the like Joseph Campbell, Lee and parts of his journey.

1:31:08So anyway, but that, and that's kind of what it's cool because, you know, I've always been like the huge fan of heavy metal. I think it's like the fucking cool. It was the coolest thing. Heavy metal is amazing. It's like, it always like made me, it kind of broke me for comics a little bit because you know, it was always like super sexy and super violent. And so you get a normal comic and be like, uh, when are they gonna start fucking? Yeah. Cause you know, it's, yeah, it was always sexual. And there was one that I remember that I remember was like very stunning to me, very shocking when I was a kid.

1:31:39And it was a, a pretty sure it was heavy metal. But it was a, it was one of those genres where it was a guy and his wife started a relationship with a robot. Oh, yeah, cool. And he tried to like fight off the robot and the robot broke his arm with his big dick hanging out. Like the robot had like this big giant flaccid dick and he broke the guy's arm. It was like smiling at him. And it was just like, he's right. Sounds amazing. It was amazing. But it was also like indicative of that, that genre, those days. Like this is the 70s, right? The 70s when they first started publishing that. Yeah, all that was on the ragged edge, which was so, and was so underground and so cult and so weird.

1:32:20That's what I loved about it. And that's what I wanted to do with the movies. Like say, what is the cult underground raw sci -fi movie look like, you know? So is it hard to do the PG -13 version? It's very, it was very hard. It was really, it's really inflicted. It was super complicated. Although the only thing I will say is that I was liberated by the fact that I knew the R -rated version exist. So there was, in the other versions of this work, in the other director's cuts, there was a version where that director's cut never was seen. There's a very good chance that that movie never got. It's all the light of day because where would you show it?

1:32:58Right. In the old world, in the movie days, all you had was DVD as your option. And if DVD said, yeah, we're good with like just the normal version, then that would have been it. And it would just die a death. And you would, whatever you intended for the movie would just never be seen. And that's just how it was. And so this, in this scenario, I was like super grateful to Netflix because I was like, you guys have like done a thing that I've never been able to do my entire career. And that is like, know that this version of the movie exists and it's going to be seen. So I'm happy to do whatever we, whatever you guys think is right for the PG -13.

1:33:35I'm like, I'm a good soldier and I'm proud of it and I love it. But yes, it is different from like what I, you know, was... What if the R version, is it NC -17 or R? Did the NC -17 work? I won't say the exact rating. We're waiting to see, we're still like up against it, but we're trying to get it. It's TVMA right now. What does that mean? I don't know. No one does. I'm not sure audiences. Yeah, you know, like any TV show that's not, because in TV, the cool thing about TV is they have TV -14 and then it goes to TVMA. TVMA literally has no top on it. I think it's like almost like porn is TVMA. I don't know what, look, no one understands the ratings.

1:34:25No one does. It's an alchemy that is impossible to know. It's all subjective. It's all subjective and bizarre and so, you know, and they also, it's genre related. Right? So like say, for instance, the ratings board might say something like, well, this is a sci -fi movie. So it's too much. If it was a horror movie, it'd be fine. But it's a sci -fi movie, so it's not fine. Or it's a superhero movie. That was the whole thing with Batman vs. Superman. I remember the ratings board said, we just don't like the idea of Batman fighting Superman. What is that? Like, how is that your opinion? Like, how is that?

1:35:02That has nothing to do with the ratings. The ratings? Yeah, they kept saying like, they kept making it in R. They kept coming back with an R for us and we were like, we really, what do you want us to cut out? And they were like, well, we just don't like the idea of Batman fighting Superman. I'm like, I can't take that out. That's the movie. That's so ridiculous. They would have that kind of power. So it was crazy. So we really had to trim it super. It's - Did you think that affected the final version? I mean, if you see the director's cut of Batman vs. Superman, it's much better. It's a much better movie.

1:35:31I -in my opinion, it's much better movie. But it's representative of what you actually wanted to create. Yeah. And I think that that -that's true of all the director's cuts that I've done is that it just glimps into the Y. That you get to see better the Y of the movie, the Y of its origin. Yeah. What it - How it - Because obviously something kept me awake for two years writing. Something kept me jazzed about like, fuck yeah, I can't wait to do this. I'm drawing. I draw - For Rebel Moon, like I drew 3000 storyboards for that movie. Like that is like a lot of work, you know. That's a lot of work.

1:36:04To like, you know, to -you got to care. That's five months of drawing. After I've written a script. Wow. So I've written a script for a year and a half. And then I draw the movie for like another five months. Wow. It's fucking insane. Oh my god, you must've been going nuts. Yeah, it's good. It's been missing Fortnite. Yeah. Yeah, that was before Fortnite. By the way, it's a good thing I didn't have Fortnite because I would've like - In a ruined area. The problem with writing and for me drawing is if I have one procrastination I can do - One. Yeah. I'll take it. Yeah. Because like if I look at that blank pad and I look at the video controller, video game controller, I'm like, oh yeah, this is way more satisfying.

1:36:45Yeah. That thing wants to fuck me up. That pad is trying to fuck me up. The thing about the delayed satisfaction though is that if you could force yourself to get to the pad when you're done, you'll feel good. And if you play the video game, you'll feel - Last night I started fucking around in my office. I was just watching YouTube videos and looking at pool cues. And then I said, all right, go to work. And I snapped and I went to work and I worked for a couple hours. And when it was done, when I went to bed, I felt great. Awesome. I felt like I did it. I did something. I did. The feeling of doing something is so much better than the feeling that you have to carry for hours of fucking off when you knew you were supposed to do something.

1:37:29100%. I couldn't agree. And then by the way, and in the end I did it. I did that work. And I'd show - Like when you know, when we went to film the movie, and I've always shown the storyboards for my movies, it's like it's a problem, but it's a thing that I do. It's my only process. It's funny because when I made Sarkarpunch, I remember we were talking about it. And I think it was my script supervisor. She said, one day you're going to like not need to draw these drawings. And you're just going to, you know, you're not going to need to spend that time. And it's just funny that like in retrospect, it's like, obviously I have to draw the drawings.

1:38:05Like it's like, let me - Like that's my process. Now I realize there's no way around it. There's no - Like you want a cheat. You know, like I wish I had a cheat where I didn't have to draw the drawings where I'd be like, I don't know, it's going to be fine. I think I can make it up on the day and it'll be good. And I do make it up on the day, but the truth is that process of drawing is the process that I - I vet a lot of the ideas in that drawing. It's not just drawing, it's writing as well. I'll change the script, I'll do whatever. I'll be like, no, no, because that doesn't make sense. Like when I see it physically, I'm like, no, you can't - That doesn't work.

1:38:39So that we sort of construct it in the drawing. It's a little bit sometimes. When did you start doing that? I started doing it. I did it throughout. I did it 300. Did you learn it from someone? I had always drawn. Like I draw. And like, you know, I'd gone to school as for fine arts. I was always drawing shots and so - It's also a thing like in film school or when you're trying to think of something, movies take so much resource, right? You need like to make a movie, you're like basically an architect and you have to convince someone to build a building, right? And it's so much work to convince people like to invest, to dig the - get all the cranes and the steel.

1:39:24It's like impossible. So drawing is like a little taste of it, right? So like I can make these are the shots I want to make. Right? So in a weird way, it's like, it's - it's drawing that beautiful sketch of the building. In a lot of ways, that's what it's going to be, you know? So you can get a feeling for it. Right. And I think that's what it does for me. It satisfies the impossible group activity that's going to require me to like, convince people - maybe that's why I love Fountainhead, you know? Like it's like that process of like getting people to like, believe in this thing, that it's going to take resources in like, so much crew and building and designing and all that other work that's down the road.

1:40:16It's the drawing that I think is a little bit of a, it's - it - it - it - it - it - it - it - it - it - it - it's that desire a little bit for me? It gives them - a framework too, there's like - Oh, it's hugely beneficial in the production process. Once they have that, they - everyone knows exactly what to do. You know, it's incredible tool once I have it. Did you do it for Watchmen? A hundred percent, my Watchmen books are insane. Did you draw Dr. Manhattan's dick? Of course. That's the question. Here's the question. Could you make that movie today? I don't know, would they allow? I mean, that's what's interesting, right?

1:40:51Someone once gave me a statistic of how much time Dr. Manhattan's cock is in the movie, like just full -frontally in the film. And I think it's a fair amount. I think it's the only studio film. It holds the record for most frontal nudity, male frontal nudity of any, you know. And it's kind of important. It's super important because he doesn't give a fuck. He doesn't give a fuck. Obviously. Like he walks around like that. He's a god. He's a god. Like what the fuck, you can't deal with it. Get the fuck out of fucking vaporize you. Or I don't even care what you think. You're a cockroach. It's like, what does he say?

1:41:26He goes, he goes, the world's smartest man is no more dangerous to me than its smartest termite. It's like such a cool thing to say. Like, you know, like he's, he doesn't, like, you know what I mean? It's like, you really realize in the face of a god, like he does, I've walked across the surface of the sun. You know, he's like, I don't know. He was the coolest. He's the best. He's the coolest. And the transformation scene is fucking amazing. By the way, that, one of my, we were just talking about the other day. Like one of my favorite sequences in any movie I've made is his, the birth sequence of Dr.

1:41:59Manhattan, the whole thing with the film, because we, it's Philip Glass did the music, right? We borrowed the music because I had heard that music and I was like, it's gotta be this music. And we tried to like, Tyler Bates, who's an amazing composer, he tried, we tried, I go write me something that's better than this and we just couldn't do it. So we just had to license it from, and I had to send Philip Glass the sequence. And he watched and he said, okay, it's cool. You can add the music. That's so cool. Yeah, because it's like, you know, it's just so, it's just so, it's just so, it's just so, it's just so, it's just so, it's just so, I love this fucking scene.

1:42:31Here, here, this, that's Philip Glass, this music. When he knows he's fucked. We built this giant oversized watch for those shots.

1:42:46That's good, yeah, that's that Philip Glass. So good, that music is fucking birth scene. It's so good. It's so insane, it's so good. The skeleton in the hallway with the muscles screaming. Oh my God. I remember shooting that exactly like it so if it was yesterday, yeah. We had this air cannon, we had a fire at that guy with the mop, because when he, he like, I get hit with it. He was like over acting, I think we did like three takes. I was like, guys, just, the first time he like flew on the ground, I was like, okay, it's too much. It's good fun. Yeah, that's really cool. It's interesting because like, you know, I think one of the things that we, after Justice League, I think one of the things that we really, as a group, as a family anyway, because I lost my daughter over that.

1:43:34Once my, you know, at the post side of Justice League, I lost my daughter to suicide. And I left the movie famously and then the movie went on and then later we were able to like, you know, finish the movie sort of in the way that we had always hoped. And I think the thing is that like, the thing that I kind of sort of come back to when I look at that and when I look at the movies is like, you know, we, they're these markers, you know, the movies are really these markers of time that we, even though they sort of transcend time, weirdly, you know, they exist beyond the time they were recorded, you know, at these weird, like they, they're in the computer as sort of these singular, like little, you press it, but then it runs and it's real and it's time.

1:44:26And it takes time to enjoy it and time to like, you can't just say it, you have to watch it and feel it again, you know, it's like a cool, so weird thing in that way. And I, and I think that like, it just, the thing that you hope is that in the end, you know, the markers meant something to people, you know, and I think that that's, we've really fought around because a lot of these mental health has been a big thing for my wife and I, you know, since losing my daughter and we've always tried, we've tried the best we can to like, support the fans, have done incredible, like the fans have raised like millions, over a million dollars just to support, you know, AFSP, which is a, you know, the suicide, you know, against suicide in America, foundation.

1:45:12And we've been like, just, it's been cool that the movies, these moments, have like, now in retrospect, have like, a purpose, you know, and that they have like, that the fans have gotten this opportunity to kind of like, you know, join with us and kind of like, be with us to like, you know, and, you know, this is because it's a huge stigma, you know, like people, nobody wants to talk about like, that they're having trouble, you know, that they're, you know, that they're not okay. And I think that what we've been trying to do lately, as much as we can, is like, say like, no, it's good, like, you know, it's just, it's okay, you know, like it's not a sign of weakness, it's nothing, it's just, it's real, you know, it's part of being human.

1:45:58It's kind of, a hundred percent part of being human. And I think that it was a, you know, we've all, it's an easy thing to kind of say that, you know, I just stress or, I just like, you know, I'm good, I'm not depressed, I'm fine, you know, and it's an easy thing to just try muscle through. Where like, you know, I think that, you know, it's my hope anyway, that like, as a family, that, you know, the movies and our connection to the fans and our connection to like, that cause has been really, really deep, and I'm just watching this, actually just, it started to be thinking about like, what the movies mean, you know, like how, what is their legacy, you know, what are they, and if they can do, on one hand, they are the moments you see, for me, Dr.

1:46:52Manhattan, Leonidas, whatever it is, you know, but then on the other hand, they can be, there's this other narrative outside of the stories, you know, like the, what was, what I was experiencing, and what maybe think of it, it's just like, what I was going through at that, on that day, when we filmed it, like what I was struggling with, what I was trying to deal with, you know, is real. That's hard stuff, you know, that's just, that was just life being lumpy for us, you know, just trying to make a movie, leaving Canada, being away from the kids, just all that, all that struggle. And then it's cool when, you know, it's been cool for me that when the fandom and the movie, like in the case of Justice League, they lined up, you know, where these people were like, no, we're not gonna, we want, there's a movie out there that we want to see.

1:47:47And it's a round of struggle that we had as a family, and all of it sort of came together. I always say like, you know, people are like, you know, the fandom was toxic or whatever, they were like, they were so angry to get the cut that they were like, I go also, also, they literally, people's lives were saved by the money that those kids raised, like literal, like lives, real tangible lives were saved by that money, that those kids that you called, that you would say are these toxic fans, they're also responsible for the saving of lives. And that's just real, you have to acknowledge it, because if you don't, like, you, you, in some ways, the legacy that they were able to create is like, dismissed, and I just, I won't, I can't.

1:48:34Well, that's just a reductionist view of things that people always like to apply, the things that are controversial, especially when they're talking about your fans, and saying something like they're toxic, that's such a dismissive thing. No, there's gonna be some elements of any passionate, rabid fans that are gonna be toxic, because it means so much to them, and that's what you have to understand. The reason why they're behaving the way they're behaving, the reason why they're screaming is, first of all, they don't think they're being heard, and second of all, it means everything to them. These people that are like deeply invested in your films, and particularly like things that have, like this sort of iconic history, like the watchman, or like Batman.

1:49:15I mean, these are very important things to people. 100%. It's like, to same way people are fanatical about sports teams, the same way they're fanatical, about, you know, music. It's tribal, you know? It's tribal. 100 % very, very tribal. So for you, when you have vision, and you have these storyboards, and you have all this stuff that you, and then you see something like, in my opinion, that birth scene is one of the great masterpieces of that genre. It's a masterpiece. It's like watching him be born, and become Dr. Manhattan is fucking amazing. It's like, I remember being in the movie theater, watching, going, oh shit.

1:49:52It was the perfect feeling. It's like what you want from these fantasy, escapism, graphic novel turn films. It was perfect. Yeah, it's cool. And even just like watching it, and like, you know, the comment, like I never said that, that the Superman was real in his America. And I said that God was real in his American. And if that doesn't give you like religious, like fear, then like you're not, then you're just not human. Like you got to like, it's okay. It's okay to be scared. Right. Because it's fucking scary. Yeah, he's real. Yeah, it's a scary thing. It's a very scary thing, but it's cool. But when you have these ideas, and you have all this work, and then it comes together, I mean, there's got to be insanely satisfying to watching a scene like that.

1:50:35It is. It's a cool, like, I guess for me, you know, like that, the process of like putting it together. And then like when you, when it literally lands, and you, and it's what you drew, and it's what you thought, and the music, and everything, like lands, it really, it is, there is a like, I mean, I'm sure it's like anything. It's probably like the same thing, like doing stand up, or whatever, like when you, when like it all, when you're grooving, when you're in the groove with it, and it's just happening, you're kind of surfing it. And you're like, God, this is the feeling right here, right? Like you can't acknowledge it in the moment, but you can feel it.

1:51:10It can push you, you know, like it's like a wave, you know, and you can feel it. It's the, that's how it is, you know, for me, it's such a long process, you know, it's, it's not instant gratification, you know, it's a very, it's like you really have to have like, head down mentality to get it to that position, because, you know, but I do, when I watch it, that first time, and it comes back, and I'm like, yeah, that's, that's like fucking, that's what we, that's the why of it right there, you know, and I think that that keeps me going, frankly, and that little, that little high is really, it's really fun.

1:51:43Well, that's the goal, right? The goal is to create that high. And that high, people leave a film like that, that's like, there's, you'll do things that you wouldn't have ordinarily do. Like you'll, you'll, maybe you'll, you'll be inspired, maybe you'll start working on something, maybe you, there's certain things, and I think that's the, the beauty of creation in a lot of ways. It's just not just escapism, but it gives you, it's like a drug, it gives you this like, boost of excitement that often leads to inspiration, and it inspires you to action, which people do things. 100%, I feel like that, if you can do that, then your movie's like, yeah, it's a huge success.

1:52:25If one guy comes up to me, like, the thing about Man of Steel that I've always, that I felt like is that Man of Steel is the movie that, the people will come up to me and say like, that movie changed my life, like that movie, like, you know, like, I thought it was about me, you know, like, I'm an immigrant, like, I just saw myself in, in Superman, and it's like, it's really like, you know, I was struggling at the time, and when I saw it, I'm like, I'm not just be like, man, that's so cool, like, I'm so grateful that, like, you know, you felt that way about the movie, because like, I don't, you know, like, for me, it's like, I'd send it off into the world.

1:53:00You think about like Netflix, for instance, where like, you push a button, and like, you know, Rebel Moon, right? The Zeitgeist is crazy, because like Rebel Moon, so say, right now, there's like, it's like almost 90 million views, right? 80, 90 million people, 90 million starts, so, or 90 million accounts said, turned it on, okay? Give or take. They assume two viewers per screening, right? That's the kind of math. So you think, if that movie was in the theater, as a distribution model, so that's 160 million, account or people, supposedly watching, based on that math. So 160 million people at $10 a ticket would be, what is that math?

1:53:55I don't know, 160 million times 10. That's 1 .6 billion, you know, so like, you look at the view numbers, you sort of, you can use that rough, you know, so more people probably saw Rebel Moon than saw Barbie in the theater, right? That's how crazy Netflix, that's how, that's how, that's the distribution model that they've set up, you know? I was like, I was at this thing the other day and we were talking about Rebel Moon 2, and I said, and they were like, well, talk about Rebel Moon 1, I'm like, no, like go fucking watch it. I know you have it at your house. Like, it's not like a theater situation.

1:54:34You could like turn it on your phone right now and watch it, like right here, if you wanted, like that's how crazy it is. I'm like, you know, like that, it's so, this model, this machine they built is really something else. It's really crazy if you think about it. Just like we were saying about the Formula One, like they're able to like, insert something into popular culture that's so, like a deep cut, like a documentary about Formula One, how else do you get that to the people? Right. No way. No way. You, you released that in the theater, five people go. Yeah. You know, literally five people go.

1:55:09Yeah, but like, you put it on TV and like a hundred million people see it. Yeah. That's crazy. It's strange. It's interesting because it shows that there was an audience there. It's just like to get someone to go out of their house and buy a ticket. That's too much of a tough sell. It's a different model. It's a different model. And it's weird how they think about it. When you think about it in those terms, that you give the audience a, an alternative, like you give them a chance to like go on this, you know, like Rubble Moon's like, okay, that's new IP, right? No one knows what the fuck that is.

1:55:44What's Rubble Moon? Some space thing. I guess. Like, okay, well, let's watch it. You know, it's that, the barrier for entry is so low. That it allows, I think, what's cool is it allows a lot more original and weirdo stuff to exist. Because, you know, especially like you think about the director's cut of Rubble Moon, which will be, if it was in theaters, a very boutiquey concept, right? Very singular. It's like the animated version of Heavy Metal. Like, you know, the movie, I'm like, you know, I'm a huge fan, but like not a lot of people see it. Where I feel like this is a chance where like, when this movie's released, the amount of people that can lay eyes on it is crazy compared to what it would be, you know, in another, if I was releasing it, say, theatrically or whatever.

1:56:36You know, it's a three hour movie, both of them are three hours. So it's much different, like, both the PG -13s are two hours, right? That was one of the things that we talked about also. Like, I wanted to movie short, PG, right? That's the, that's kind of the prerequisite where I'm like on the R -rated version, it's like, there's no rules. Like, it's, it's like, no, no, there's no expectations, no rules, no nothing. Like, you get, that's, that experience is a completely different experience. And when does that one come out? It comes at the end of summer. The end of summer. I want enough time.

1:57:11Yeah, probably right in there. I want, we don't have it exact date, but like, somewhere, I wanted enough time so that I didn't want them to be too attached to the PG version, because I love them. By the way, like I said, I'm proud of the PG version. I think it's fun. I think when you see Rebel Moon 2 on April 19th, you will see a very, a war movie. It's a fucking war movie is what it is. Like, because like, the first thing is like, gather the team, second movie is a war movie. The, the R -rated version is just a different journey. Like, you just get there in a different way and it's just more, like I said, it's just more weird.

1:57:48It's more boutique -y and more bizarre. And more like the original. More like Heavy Metal. Heavy Metal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just more, yeah, yeah, yeah, more like a genre you could, you can't really pitch a studio a live action heavy metal movie right now. It's just not a, I don't know how to do that. I don't know how you'd make that. You know, unless you are willing to do some sort of song and dance, you know. Which is, which I, I think that as a product, like I said, I'm proud of it. And I think it works for what they've generated, because like, basically for the same price as two movies, right, they get four movies, which is pretty, that's pretty crazy, you know.

1:58:32Because the director's cuts for what, for the hour, additional hour and extra stuff that we did inside of each of those movies, each of the movies is an hour longer. What we did inside those movies with tone and with gourd and sex and all that stuff, within the same framework, you're getting too entirely different movies. It's not like extended version, you know. Like that, I'd be like, okay, whatever. Like, oh, you did an extra weird little, here's the thing you cut out that you thought was too long. It's not like that at all. It's just a lot more, I don't know. It's just true to the vision. Yeah, it's got balls, it's got a lot of balls.

1:59:11And is that, I mean, that's gotta be this thing where you're waiting. Like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I want you to see the real thing. I don't think, you know, it's a weird thing because I don't think, I mean, look, it's a, it's up to the viewers, you know, in a lot of ways. I don't wanna like, by no means am I saying that you can't watch both for sure you can. It's really how you do it. I feel like if you've seen PG -13, Rebel Moon Part One, you should see PG -13, Part Two, because they're really closely related. I mean, they're like, it's a direct, you know, like you, it could be one movie.

1:59:49You could cut them together, literally, and just keep going, where it's chapter two, it's part two, it's like a, where I feel like that in the R -rated experience, it's just like a different, they're both gonna release on the same day. So you can just fucking binge it, yeah. That's the way to do it, too, with Netflix. Yeah. One thing's I love about Netflix is when I don't find out about something until like two or three seasons in, I'm like, you're a hundred percent. I can, yes, it's at least 17 episodes. It's the same muscle that made me play Fortnite for like six months, yeah, it's like. But if you have the time, a good series is bingeable.

2:00:24God, so satisfying. It's so satisfying. Yeah. I think we could do another. That's what I always say to my wife. I'm like, how do you feel? And she's like, I feel good. Are you sleepy now? Let's go. Have you ever thought about doing like a Netflix series? Like something that's so big that you couldn't do in one or two films? Yeah, yeah, we've talked about it a lot. Like, I mean, nobody wants fountain head, but that's what I wanted to do. I pitched them fountain head because I'm a, you know, I'm a, I've written this super adaptation of that book and I just think it's, I think it would be amazing, but you know, no one wants to make it because they think it's like, you know, it's taboo.

2:01:02I ran as taboo. Why is she taboo? I don't know. She's taboo among the intelligentsia because they think she's a fascist and they think the books are fascist propaganda. Piece of fascist propaganda. I, that's not why I liked the book. I'm like, look, you know, I happen to just like it because it's, to me, it's a direct comment on making a movie, right? It's a movie about an architect who won't make the buildings that everyone wants him to make and like what the struggle he goes through to get the buildings made the way he wants to make them. Of course, I like that, you know? Like no movie director.

2:01:41I'm sure there's plenty of movie directors that don't like Fountainhead, but I just think that it just has, it says so much. I and Rand wrote Fountainhead in direct response to being noted on a script that she had written and she had been studying this movie about skyscrapers and they told her she kept submitting versions of the script and they kept noting her, noting her until it was unrecognizable. And then she was like, this is what happens to a peat, to like, you know, to work. You know, it gets noted to, into like, till it disintegrates into the spheres. And so yeah, so that was, that's one thing that I, that I've always wanted to do, but I don't know that I'm ever, I don't know that the world will allow that.

2:02:27I don't know why. It's one of those weird things where I and Rand is, she's connected to like in cells or, you know, like angry white guys or like, finance people, they're cruel. Yeah. It's this very strange, Steve Jobs's favorite book, by the way. Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. That is interesting. But it's one of those things where it's like, if you hear that, like, I'm an, I'm an, I'm Rand fan. You're like, oh, okay. Yeah, you're one of those guys. Yeah. And you get coin too. Yeah, exactly. You know, it's true. Right? But it's funny because look, and I get, by the way, Alice Shrugged Fair, you know, you can play with that, that's a game that I, I mean, I'm pretty exclusively a fountainhead fanatic.

2:03:12And for that, also because it's melodroma too, like it's the most melodramatic thing ever. I mean, as far as just like, why don't Netflix let you do that? I feel like they should. I feel like that. I think it would have a huge, well, again, like I said, I think I know it would work. I know it would work. I know it would work too. Yeah. Why don't fuck come on Netflix. Let's go. Let's go. Well, I'm a fan of letting artists like yourself do what is their vision, you know, and I think people are often wrong about whether or not something is going to be successful commercially or whether or not it's going to resonate with a lot of other people.

2:03:46But that's the thing that no one knows. Like that's the awesome thing about movies is like, and why, you know, I'm not that worried about the AI influence over motion picture because there's obviously no formula. No one can predict what's going to be successful or they would have gotten rid of the directors and writers a long time ago. You know, like it's still there's alchemy, there's still magic. There's still like an impossible, like, you know, all these elements come together and you're like, you feel something and you're like, what that was cool. Fuck, you know, and it's the thing like, who knows, you know?

2:04:21Yeah. It's like, you know, anything, you know, that you see that maybe if someone described it to you, in an abstract, you'd be like, that sounds dumb. Like I know. And then you sit and you watch it and you experience it moment by moment and you feel it. Yeah, it's fucking cool. What's also I think there's always going to be a thing that people resonate with where they know it's made by a person. They know that artists' thoughts were involved in the creation of this thing. This is the vision. They worked tirelessly to produce this and they put it out and they're proud of it. Here it is. And there's something about that that you're getting to take in another human beings, a group of human beings, creation.

2:05:05And that means something to us. And I think it's always going to mean something to us. I think there's going to be AI songs and AI movies and AI art. And it's going to be cool. But it's not going to be as cool. Because it's not going to be from a human. Correct. From human beings. And I do feel like the fingerprints, the squishy fingerprints on the thing are the thing that make it unbelievably cool. Chisel marks. I want the chisel marks. I love them. I live for them. To me, that's the bit. The best movies, my favorite movies, the best movies, are where you can feel the hand of the filmmaker. I want that.

2:05:45I do not want the movie made by committee. You go to a movie that feels like it was made in the boardroom. I feel dirty when I watch that. I don't like it. I don't want the cold hand of marketing on me like that. I want to like, that's why I love the weirdness. I feel like in the end, all my movies are just a little bit weird in a good way. 300 for whatever, all the coolness of it as far as, yeah, let's go fight. It's still a weirdo movie. The way it's made. You're putting a bunch of gay stuff in there? You know, it's Frank's book. I wrote it. I made what Frank wrote. Now, in retrospect, and we've been talking about doing a series where I really wanted to introduce those concepts a lot more because I just feel like it's important in if we go forward and do more in the 300 universe, I would want to bring that part in and let people, which I think just shakes it up again.

2:06:54Like, you know, like what? Like, right? When you thought you knew, like how to feel. Like, I'm going to make you feel like another way. People have always said like, you know, 300, you know, people have accused me of being like homophobic or whatever. And I'm like, I don't know, they just somehow they feel like that. Because the Spartans weren't doing gay stuff. Yeah, or because they, you know, there's that one line where he says, you know, philosophers and boy lovers. But like, I think that that he's clearly being cheeky Leonidas because like I, of course, him was hyper aware at the time that the reality of Spartan culture was the, was like, he's obviously out.

2:07:37He, he means philosophies and boy lovers, not like he, he's using that maybe as a directory comment, but when in reality, he's a lover of men, probably, you know, absolutely. Absolutely. And so like, I just think that like, as, and we talked about like, as we go forward, I would love to like, just kind of stress. And just like I said, like, look, 300, you know, in some ways is like one of the gayest movies ever made, you know, like it's, it, it, it is incredibly male centric male obsessed, you know, like you really feel like very strong male energy from the movie, even though there's a strong lead, you know, Gorgos incredibly strong female character.

2:08:23And we wrote her and made her like he doesn't decide to kick the person messenger into the well without getting approval from, from Gorgos because, you know, he's like, I'm going to burn it down. Is that cool? And she's like, go do it. You know, and he's like, all right, here we go. And you know, he, he, this is Spartas that guy. And that's like, that was that, that, that, and I just think, but I just think that like, you know, and maybe that was just me understanding doing the research and understanding the reality of Spartan culture that I really, that energy was in there because I just felt like it was important, you know, to make sure that it was, you know, that there was this kind of visceral sexuality to the way the men actually interacted, you know, that was there.

2:09:07I mean, regardless of whether you acknowledge it, it's there, you know. That would be, but, but it wasn't acknowledged really in the film. Like if anybody didn't know the history of the Spartans, they wouldn't know. No, no, but I just feel, I just mean from sort of an iconic standpoint, as far as like the, the, the, the, this just sort of indulgence in the male form, you know, is very, it's not, it's not casual. Right. If you have to be fascinating to see if you did do a series and you had them behave the way Spartans actually did the reaction. Yeah, be interesting. I think that hopefully we'll find out one day.

2:09:46That'd be fun. Yeah, that would be fun. Yeah, it's just, I mean, like look, in the end, it's a, it's a weirdo, it's a weirdo show, you know, like it just, it's fun to enjoy it. It's fun to fuck with it, you know, like that's what we do. Like that's, you got to tear it apart a little bit to like take a look at it. You got to know, you know, when you choose things to do today, how do you go about doing? Do you, do you just sit with an idea and bring it to studios? Do they come to you? Do you, how do you choose what you, I don't develop. I kind of have a bunch of, I've always had a bunch of stuff that I work on and I just go, I want to do this and then whoever wants to do it, then they, they we do it.

2:10:22And I mean, it is a, it's an awesome position and I appreciate it. And I don't, I don't take it for granted. You know, there's a few things like I've always been obsessed with Richard Bach. I don't know if you know, like there's a, he has this book called Illusion said I've owned for a long time. And I've always wanted to do. You know, I grew up as a Christian scientist and I, you know, I, isn't that a book about like channeling? Well, Illusion's is about this, it's a, a book about this guy flying in his biplane around in the 1970s. And he lands in a, in a, in a pasture because like in the 70s, you, well, he was part of this sort of, he would fly his biplane around, land in a pasture and then sell rides for $3.

2:11:10Like for 10 minutes. And that's how he lived, right? He's just a gypsy pilot flying around the Midwest and he happens to come across this guy who also is flying a biplane, who happens to be like a Messiah, who happens to be like this super spiritually advanced dude, who's on the run from, he doesn't want to be the Messiah. He's like, he's like, it's a, it's called Illusion's the adventures of a reluctant Messiah. And it's about the two of them spending a summer together, just the one guy teaching him about like, it's a shit job being the Messiah. Like don't, don't do it because you know what happens to the Messiah is in the end.

2:11:45Right. Yeah. He goes, you always have to die of violent death and he goes, yeah, not always. And he's like, really? He goes, yeah, you know what? It's, it's cool for like, he goes, what about just a quiet little ascension, you know, just on the side? And he's like, yeah, I don't think that, I don't think the universal let that happen. You know, so it's a cool, so it's this really cool. Again, it's like this sort of, it's again, like a spiritual deconstructivist, like Messiah's story. And I just like, I've always, it was like this book when I was growing up. I just, in a lot of ways, it's, it's religious philosophies, this similar to Christian science.

2:12:23So I superimposed my religious beliefs onto this book. And I felt like it kind of spoke to my doubts and my questions about my religious upbringing and like, what I thought for real, like my brother. So my brother passed away when I was 13. He got in a car accident and he was like this incredibly spiritual dude. Everyone like, anyone who knew my brother was like, that guy was the guy, he was the man. Like, you know, Sam Snyder was like, among his pure group was like, he was like, you know, in retrospect, like he was in a Tai Chi and like, just like super cool 70s dude, right? Like, just kind of look like Billy Crude Up, right?

2:13:05Like Billy Crude Up from like, you know, almost famous, right? Imagine that guy. Like, but just like, the coolest guy, you know, smoking dope, just being cool as hell. So when he passed away, I always thought like, okay, my brother just like tired of this world and went looking for another one, you know, like he was just like on a spiritual journey. But then like, when you see, when you're 13 and you see like what that event though does to your family, your mother and father, you know, your sister, all of their friends, like the devastation that they feel. And these are people that I believed, believed in the religion that I believed in.

2:13:48And the pain, like, it made me really go like, what the fuck like? Is this, what's real? Like, what, like, what are we supposed to believe? You know, it really tested me. And I think that illusions, that book in retrospect, and I won't spoil it or I won't tell you what happens on the last page of the book. But it kind of speaks to where I was. And I think so it's always resonated with me. And I'm friends with Richard Bach. I became friends with him and his wife is constantly texting me like, why don't we make an illusions? And I was like, soon, soon. She's like, I found the planes. You know, so it's cool.

2:14:23It's cool. Like, we have the planes. We can make it anytime. So yeah, standing. So those are kind of, that's how we develop. Like, it's all these things that I have, you know, that are kind of close to me, that I might always constantly say, and what about that? We should maybe it's time. Well, that's awesome, dude. Well, listen, it's been great to talk to you. I really appreciate what you've done. I love how excited you are about filmmaking. Not sure. Cheers. You've done some awesome shit, man. You should be proud. Oh, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Well, look, man, I'm a fan of the show. And, you know, it's an honor to come on and talk to you.

2:14:57Thank you. It's honor to have you. Thank you. Thank you very much. All right. Bye, everybody. Thanks, buddy.