#2140 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin

39:11What you're gonna know like who is pretending to Not be interested in you, but it's very interested in you where people are gonna be able to be coy anymore That'd be very weird. Oh, yeah, and there's gonna be a lot of people that are gonna get cancelled What's canceling you even gonna mean the problem is a lot of the people that want to cancel people have Cancels offenses in their own Oh, yeah, a big part of them. Yeah, so I think that's that it's all gonna be out there Your all thoughts are gonna be out there. I think it's a matter of time and I don't think it's that long I think within a decade we're gonna have some ability because they're getting so close to it They're they're getting There was a Japanese study where they got some sort of Visual evidence of dreams some sort of a it's not like you can see the dream But they're getting close.

40:01They're zeroing in on particular images that people were experiencing while they were dreaming and the thing They could this is like this high for those. What is that technology? See if you can find what they're I think was Was it Emma? What was it a Functional magnetic resonance imagery is that what it was? When I type it in the story comes up like almost 12 years ago I guess they started doing it. That's when so there was that there was some sort of recent article about it I think there's been some breakthrough The point is they're gonna get it all right The got that guy wearing the the first neural ink patient who's wearing the neural ink in his head now And he's operating a computer for the first time paralyzed and he's playing video games He's talking to people.

40:45It's wild. So we we know that's that's already been done. Okay MRI scans reveal what we see in dreams Japanese researchers unveiled visuals was 60 % accuracy Using innovative MRI scans in pivotal Kyoto studies showcasing a breakthrough in sleep science 60 % accuracy is bananas. So this is like Morse code It's not uh, you know, having a FaceTime chat That FaceTime chat's coming. Okay, Morse code. Did he do we had to do that first got through the smoke signals Out there fucking making circles in the desert and now instead of smoke signals We have Impossible technology that anybody a hundred years ago would have thought of as complete magic Well, this is gonna make that look like a fucking walk in the park with your friends It's gonna make it look.

41:41It's gonna make it seem so mundane That that what that shit is gonna do is unite all brains all brains united in the weirdest sort of hive mind Situation that anybody could ever You couldn't imagine what that would be like just like we couldn't imagine in the 1700s Would it's like to just get on Twitter and read news about bay route? You know, how could you know? How could you instantaneously get news about another part of the world that you're nowhere near? Well, because the world's changed the whole things changed. It's gonna be everybody's brain connected. I Mean may you live an interesting time.

42:18Yeah, that is the weirdest. It's it's gonna be a whole new way of interfacing with Reality and you know what I might not be right, but I think I think it's I think that's it's like one plus one is two two It's like it's right there. It's coming. Do you know his Because we all dream some pretty fucked up stuff You know like you wake up and you're like what was that about? Yeah, it just imagine like you know You you you you had this neuroling program of put you know attached to you and you you wake up in the sign and you'd say to the scientist So what did I dream about and they're like turns out your gay mate Turn it would have everybody's getting their dreams.

42:58What if you're straight in reality? You're definitely getting your dreams and you have to decide which one you're gonna be so if you're a gay guy then you straighten your dreams I've always said I think it'd be a lot easier to be gay Oh, there's definitely some value in that In certain circumstances, but when they get old it gets rough It gets rough because man are mean You know they're mean and you know you're an old man. He doesn't want to suck your dick anymore. Sorry They want to go get a young guy and That's the difference you know between like an old man and woman couple They're just hanging out together versus an old guy who knows what's a fuck him anymore And he has to try to pay young guys to be with them and then it gets ugly and sad all right You ruined the peel for the job.

43:44It's so bad. It's so much easier If I asked Francis mate, do you want to go for dinner? He's like yeah, I'm like what'd you want to go? I don't mind I'd never have that conversation with my wife. It's like a half hour affair of working it out making sure it's the right place and the right time and all of it You know I had some friends mine that were a gay couple and they decided to get a surrogate so they get a surrogate and then the lady decides to keep the kid And she kept it she's like nah, I'm gonna keep your kid I like it. I like the kid. Yeah, that it surprises me that that doesn't happen most of the time Right like it wants the baby is so connected.

44:18It must be a Traumatic experience for the mother. Yeah, and the baby probably. Oh, yeah It's it's it's a weird one the the surrogate baby thing is a weird one. That's what that is like I mean It's like a modern day version of some weird shit that people would have done like the 1700s You know carry my baby for me like what you can get you can hire someone to carry your baby. What hold on? Yeah, we're having a bunch of surrogate babies now. We decided to just Keep making kids, but I don't want to carry them So we're just gonna stuff them inside someone and have them carry them when I'm gonna pay them It's a bit of a moral landmine like people get very triggered when anyone says anything about it But you that tearing of the maternal bond yeah That ain't that ain't no joke that thing is not a joke and that is something that we can't Discount if they do create an artificial human being The the reality is without all of those natural processes that are in place that you don't even understand until they're actually happening If you don't have them at all You don't have them at all in this thing this thing wasn't bonded to its mother Didn't have like fights with its sister where they made up It didn't have like someone who's mean to them at school to became their best friend didn't have all that stuff None of that stuff.

45:38So what are you what is that a demon like what is that? What is that what is this new life form that's smarter than you that has No real emotions because it has no real stake in the game because it was created with a fucking 3d printer What is that that thing you're sticking your dick into sir? You're literally fucking a demon and you're having to the and the thing that's gonna overcome us And if it overcomes us just by seducing us into putting our seed inside of it instead of women Because you can't be bothered because then you can't play Call of Duty all day like that For a lot of young guys who especially if they don't have status So it's very difficult for them to get a woman that they're attracted to they don't have money They're not attractive whatever fill in the blank If they can just have the literal hottest woman It's ever lived and they can have sex with her and they're out and it costs like what 25 grand and you can mortgage it You know You can figure out a way to You can figure out a way to get the money.

46:40They'll finance it. You like a thousand dollars down a thousand pounds Yeah, or you sell your data, you know if you agree to opt -in to the porn site Can you imagine how depressing it must be if your sex spot gets repossessed? I bet that we do that a lot. She would scream and cry for you that motivate you to pay up She's screaming and crying and manipulating you as they're dragging her away. Yeah She did that would be devastating and they're telling you they're gonna fuck your sucks robot No Don't I'm gonna. We're gonna give it to your best friend Oh Yeah, he just broke You know what I find interesting Joe is that I haven't seen too much really good sci -fi being made which I find interesting because Her doing was great, but I haven't said yeah doing is great, but it's not along these lines So what I mean is like when when we first started getting the technology for space Well, you had these people like Isaac Asimov and and robotics was coming and they would have really interesting As stories and books are exploring the idea of you know, what does that look like when they're robots What are the how would you run that what would be the potential downfalls and stuff like that?

47:52And it was you know I remember when I was in my as teenager It was the golden age for that kind of stuff And now we seem to have these giant breakthroughs coming and we don't seem to have it enough Authors and artists thinking about some of the dilemmas involved and really kind of trying to think that through through a story Lens about what the impact might be right, you know, and that's interesting to me because I think I think we just genuinely have no Fucking idea what's coming well I also think that the leaps between the initial rocketry program, you know NASA Apollo program and then what could come next is Is a lot easier to chart out than what I mean, and they were wrong about law shit.

48:34Oh, yeah There was a show called space 1999 I remember I used to watch when I was a kid. It was like wow Space like everything was like super futuristic like crazy like star wars like in 1999 like that's what they thought Nobody figured everybody thought flying cars everybody thought flying cars. No flying cars You know, are they coming? I mean, there's there's some manufacturers that have made one one guy Has made one I think it's a Chinese company and it's a like a drone essentially It's like you have a single seat in the center of it and you close it like a helicopter and you have drone You know like the same kind of propellers that drones have So you just operate it like a drone But that's there's a couple other ones, but there's nothing that's like commercially viable where they're gonna be able to sell them Is when it is they sell Teslas, you know, it's not it's not there yet But it's not probably not gonna get there when the when the AI hits Everything stops when when it goes live when it becomes sentient with its literal sky net You're gonna have a organic thing that's made out of electronics.

49:40It's gonna be a life form And we we're gonna give birth to this stupid fucking thing And I think everything's gonna be doomed I think we're gonna have a government that's run by AI because it's gonna be the most efficient and then who controls the AI Oh the most equitable ethical people like it's gonna it's it could be real weird It could be real weird because it's gonna be so much smarter than all the human beings combined And you could be able to use it to manipulate people And if people are still allowed to vote and then you could use AI to sort of just manipulate them perfectly into leaning They'll figure out like what is the issue that keeps you from voting for Biden over Trump?

50:19What is the issue that keeps you from voting independent for RFK junior? Let's see what it is And let's monkey with the data and let's get you information that stimulates that party your brain Just enough for all those fence sitters go to the other side and then who knows what's going on Who knows who's running anything if AI video is so goddamn good they can take a photo of you and have you say anything So who knows what Putin saying and who knows what Zelensky saying and who who knows what anybody saying anywhere in five years Who knows that is absolutely terrifying. That's real It's like these are these are undeniable truths that I think that we have to come to grips with before this shit hits When I say hits obviously I'm a lotite.

51:05I don't know what I'm talking about But I'm extrapolating. I'm looking at where things are going and I'm going this is gonna happen so fast And it's gonna be so weird It's not it's not gonna just stop at chat GPT -5 It's not gonna just stop at these robots that'll clean your kitchen It's not gonna stop it though. It's gonna keep going and it's gonna go quick real quick big leaps Big re big leaps real quick where the world is alien real quick and look at the stuff we're already seeing I mean Google Gemini that was eye opening. Yes. Yeah, that was eye opening Yeah, I try to influence human influence.

51:42I tried to talk I tried to ask you some questions about contentious subjects And it was literally like talking to a woke 18 year old Because it refuses to give you certain information if you ask it about things that are controversial, let's say uh, you know, whatever there's different examples you could ask it It just says well, I have the information, but I'm not gonna give it to you because it's harmful God damn That that Ideology that pervasive idiotic ideology is so terrifying It's so terrifying how quickly people will adopt all of those principles without variation rarely they just they just lump into that and and and censorship is fine as long as you're censoring bad people Yes Yeah, I mean what look or Australia is trying to do with Elon and and X at the moment Yeah, we were talking about that early this woman from Australia.

52:39Who is that lady? I think she's a parliamentarian or a minister in the government She was saying he should be locked up for what he's doing on social media like what is he doing? I want to know what imagine imagine that's your threshold for locking someone up allowing people to talk Right, you know, what is he doing that's so egregious like does she have I feel like if you make that statement If you're a person that's an elected official and you make that statement like this person should be locked up If it's not for something very specific you're terrifying me because you're in a position to power and you just want to just flippantly lock people in a cage Because they disagree with you Please explain what it is like what is he I have not yet seen one thing I've not he's not perfect.

53:24He's not doesn't make all the the same moves that I'm guessing I have to do with this Clues accuses Australia of censorship after court bans violent video So there's a video of a bishop being stabbed at a church. Oh, I saw the video right that so Australia is trying to ban that video right Okay, well, I agree with anyone so imagine thinking that he should be you want some water? I'd less some coffee for the same thing. Thanks, bro Beautiful. Thank you. You're welcome So He's saying This is a real video. This is a real thing that happened. There's There's something that someone wants to see that we were all should know that this can happen.

54:08Here's the video Right somebody put it up. It doesn't violate any of our laws. Let's keep it up there And they're saying he should be locked in a cage for that. Yeah, I mean that's crazy Well, once you invent so this isn't the case in this instance particularly, but once you invent the idea of hate speech Then everything else follows because that me if there's hate speech that means some people aren't allowed to be saying what they're saying And by the way, I mean it is true like I I definitely have noticed an increase in like anti -Semitic Messages the people send me since Elon took over. I'm happy with that I'm very comfortable with that because the rest of it was good because you just mentioned it now that we're coming Well, I don't give a shit.

54:50I just blocked people that I don't want to hear from and that works for me I think that's the way it should be because if you we've got to open up the conversation That means that some people are going to say dumb shit. Yes, and I'm I would much rather that than some well -meaning bureaucrat deciding what should and shouldn't be allowed to be said in the public square So if that if that means there's more hate, I don't give a shit. I think it's worth it That is the only solution. It's not going to be a it's not a simple solution It's going to be yeah, you're going to open up the door to more hate But you're also going to open up the door to free conversations and people are going to figure out what's what And that's the only way it really works It doesn't work by government mandate Especially when we've seen particular with our government with the Twitter files How there have been people that worked within the government that contacted Twitter and tried to get factual information taken down and trying to get the accounts suppressed of people that were experts in the field that had a differing opinion other than what was being promoted That's crazy.

55:47You can't have that like that that can't be a thing Because that's not good for the government. It's not good for us. It's not good for anybody to allow that kind of shit That's the whole it's un -American You should be ashamed that you want to do that. It's unpatriotic You shouldn't be allowed to do it just because you're in a sneaky secret squirrel position where you can contact Twitter through you know The some government agent and then they get they feel pressured and then they give in to something that you're doing That's super unethical. That's an American. I love that you said that Joe because it's so it's a phrase that you don't hear as much as I think he used to 20 years ago Just the idea that there's some basic core principles of what America and the broader west is founded on and that's That's one of them.

56:29It's one of them and you have to fight off that urge to control people You have to recognize that if you're in a position of power Whether you're a cult leader or a president or whatever the fuck you are There's this desire to control people that gets people to that position in the first place this this ego that makes them think I should be the one that talks for the whole group. I know it's better for all of them And as soon as you start using that in unethical way like that like censoring people especially censoring factual information from experts You're on American. That's on American. It's it's unpatriotic and in fact it's it's It's one of the grossest things you could do in a place that values free speech and we've seen So tangibly what's come out of this country turned like culturally the music the comedy the literature the all that the crazy shit the movies That have come from this experiment self -government and the only way it works is if you let people Work it out you got to let people talk and you're gonna get people that are wrong And you're gonna get people that are racist you're gonna get people that are sexist You're gonna get people that are homophobic you're gonna get all that But you're also gonna get people that battle those people you're gonna get people that have better arguments in those people You get people that sort of But start posting links and quote and people start figuring things out for themselves And that's the only way this works It's the only way you can't let these people that are elected officials decide what you can and can't consume Because I don't know you I know the you that ran from air.

57:59I don't know you you might be a piece of shit You might be a sociopath you might be a smiling con artist that tricked a bunch of people because nobody wants to run and everybody who Does run sucks It's like you're literally like boxing with five year olds like oh, you're the champ. Yay. No one's doing it No one's doing it like no real quality human beings are out there running for office in Los Angeles They're not running for me. There was a rick caruso guy. They didn't give him a chance He could he could have done something that's a rare thing when you have a very wealthy person who wants to try to save a city But of course he's like over a publicant right so they'll like get out of here or what but he's running for a public and as a democrat.

58:38What was he running? You can't even win as a Republican in California like they're so Swatchnack. Yeah, swatchnack was the last one, but he was also royalty So it's like a tricky thing because that was Hollywood royalty. He was a movie star like it would be great if aren't he gone He's a sense of a Republican, you know, he's one of us. He's a liberal. He's also he's running as a Republican. That's the only week and one Yeah, you know and you've seen that more and more throughout throughout all our societies Like you look at what's happening in Scotland when I messaged you with what was happening Yeah with the hate speech laws And now you can the hate speech has been criminalized in public performances including place It's so insane.

59:24So the Edinburgh festival which is a largest comedy and arts festival in the world People can now get arrested for public performance and they most certainly will they follow the rule of the law because Edinburgh those guys get wild Yeah, get wild down there. Yeah, and so they should and you just go. It was a comedy first Yeah, there's probably a few people that actually If I'm just going to talk a lot of them up Get rid of that. But you know, Francis and I we've been warning about this for ages and most most people pretend it's not happening They ignore it and it's like first a couple of years ago a guy called Jerry Satterwitz who's a super funny Super offensive comic like none of his stuff is online because it's too offensive But you go and see him he's absolutely incredible So they pulled his show from that and professed it all and we were like this is a problem like no, no, there's no problem now You literally have the police potentially resting comedians.

1:00:16Maybe this is when they start waking up Yeah, and and the same government wanted to criminalize hate speech in your home It's really is the real problem is the people that want that job Shouldn't have that job. Yeah, no quality except for there's a rare few like I think RFK is a great person Yeah, I would I would vote for him. I think Tulsi Gabbard is a great person Yeah, I would vote for her. There's there's people that I think are running for office and they're legitimately trying to do Well for the for the world. They're trying to make a better place They're trying they think they have ideas that would sort out some of the problems that we have and they're one of us That's real, but then there's these fucking people the rest of them.

1:00:59They're just these partisan Fucking robots and they just get connected to the system and they know which wheels degrees and they all get connected together and they support each other and it's just Oh and even with good well -intentioned people I think as we were talking about free speech There are some certain principles. They've got to be there because Good intentions can be misused You're like oh, I just want to do good. I just want to protect people from harm That's why we need to restrict speech online. That's their argument like I did the stupid argument that they should have to They should have to debate someone about that.

1:01:34Yeah, yeah You want to just pass something like that you should have to stand but that is a very important thing You're trying to pass you should have to stand publicly and defend that against a champion of free speech Like a really brilliant like if if Hitchens was alive, right? Yeah, you know Could you imagine what that would have looked like Christopher Hitchens versus whoever the fuck thinks they can lock people up for saying cunt You know whatever whatever the words that you're gonna choose that are hate speech now and they're gonna keep moving They're run out of words. They're gonna push new words.

1:02:03They're gonna push new descriptions that are problematic I mean to be fair cunt is not hate speech in Australia. It's a greeting Yeah, yeah, he's a good cunt You know he ball like isn't it funny that that it's that is a weird thing that that word became cute over there Yeah, over here. It's just so rough. Yeah, yeah, it's it's so interesting because like I said in Scotland It's a term of affection I was in Glasgow and they were queuing at the bar and there was this English guy, you know He was very hello, I mean, you know one of them and then he was as rough like placing glass bar and glass Got people were cutting in front of him and then one block there who was just rough ass glass Weed and looked at the bar man.

1:02:46Hey barman get this poor cunt a drink And it was the lovin his eyes. Yeah, it's just pure affection. You know like this guy's been fucked over game a drink Yeah, if you say that in Boston they'll beat the fuck It's for some reason it didn't make it over there. Yeah, which is interesting because it's obviously so heavily influenced But you know to the point that we were talking about you know you see even something like diversity You the the Scottish First Minister. There's a very famous speech where he came out and he listed people Who were working in certain places? I can't remember in certain parts of government and he just went white white Yeah, I saw that white and his heart mate.

1:03:28It's Scotland. It's 96 percent white. What do you expect? Can everybody's so scared of being called racist? Yeah, you're right And you know what happened is the day they put the week they passed that bill There were more reports of hate speech on that speech that he gave than there'd been for years That's hilarious now are the hypocrites they lock him up That would be maybe the solution lock him up then overturn the laws. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well They didn't lock him up the BBC did a very nice interview where they agreed that anyone who criticise him must be far right That's sweet. That's a good move.

1:04:04Yeah, I'm a checker's Yeah, the world is checkers to you and you don't think that it's so fucking transparent It's such a basic principle of our civilization that people should be free to speak their mind and and it's important at every level Like our armies fight better because they're less hierarchical So the soldier on the ground can pass information up the chain of command without being afraid right it matters in every single aspect of what we do It's a reason for our scientific progress. It's a reason for technological progress It's the reason as you say for the cultural creativity that we have here that they don't have in other places It's the bedrock of our civilization and you've got well -intentioned quote unquote people running around trying to tear it down I had this experience when I I last No, not the last on the penultimate time I did question time which is like a big discussion show in the UK on TV And they it's a there's like five people from different perspectives different angles And before they start they do one question that they don't broadcast It's like a warm -up right and the question that the time was Donald Trump had just been unbanned from Facebook And they were like well should that have happened and I you know made the Controversial point that the former president of the most powerful country in the world should be allowed to say something in public Didn't go down well And then they went to the left wing politician the labor party politician on the panel And she went without missing a bit you want we must have the safest internet in the world And I was like what say for the North Korea Would they've completely lost their understanding that there is a tradeoff between freedom and safety And when you go for more freedom Yes, it means there's less safety from people's hurting words or whatever But you get more freedom and that's actually worth it.

1:05:53It's actually important And it's always these people that want to assume those positions of power that have this sort of fucking limited view of human psychology And the way we accumulate and process information that it has to be We have to be able to talk about stuff if you can't just talk about stuff You get one side of the story and that side of the story is going to favor whoever the fuck is in control of what you get to talk about Period, it's always how it's been and to think that it's going to be different now because we're better and we're more civilized Well, we can trust our leaders now like no No, it's a human thing.

1:06:27It's a so reason why we're that there's term limits So you can only get corrupted so much over eight years and hopefully someone could like say this guy sucks Let's try a whole new crew of people see how we run this thing You see that's why I found covid so fascinating because that was when the mask slipped and you saw some leaders And you were like okay, you're trying to do your best and then you saw the petty little authoritarians come out And you really saw them and then what was interesting about it as well was that there was some things that was so Funny because they were so ridiculous Do you remember in New Zealand when a guy got arrested for transporting KSC across county lines?

1:07:09biological terrorism He got what did they get him for where they get him for because he wasn't Because during the the covid regulations you couldn't move beyond the certain Oh, yeah, yeah, certain there was a barrier and this guy was making money because he was going to KFC Buying it and then basically and then coming back and being like KFC but for drug dealers but for KFC and then he was stopped Searched by the police and arrested and then they listed all of these things in his boot and like two two tubs of coltsel or one coke bottle and you go this is Tens of thousands of dollars. Yeah Men were charged with breaching the country's tough covered 19 rules a bootful of KFC chicken and tens of thousands I think it's the money they're worried about The KFC is just kind of a fun.

1:08:00All right. Well, no look. It says they were charged for breaching the country's covered rule So it's nothing to do with monies right, but they did have tens of thousands of dollars, which means they were selling KFC This dude's had an illegal KFC visit He's talking to get KFC during lockdown This guy's like I'm gonna go out there. I don't have a GPS in my truck. Let's go Here's a KFC's mugler this motherfucker look at his his hall see he was smuggling KFC Yeah, there's no way he's eating all that chicken by himself. Yeah, that's a lot of chicken. Yeah, I mean by the way that might be my favorite fast food Yeah, my If you're really not concerned about your health at all Just one good flavor KFC especially the um they have like a crunchy right in there KFC doesn't they have a crunchy crust sometimes too?

1:08:45Yeah Yeah, I'm just reading what happened they got caught traveling on a gravel road on the outskirts of the city Did it you turn when they saw police And then they found a hundred thousand dollars in cash. Oh, that's a lot of money guys. What are you doing?

1:09:04Really lock down you got some cash bro? Yeah, you a thousand dollars to go get me a bucket of chicken Really? I mean I'd go and get it and unclear whether the men intended to sell the food I told you or if they hope to use it as a distraction If they're gonna pull over You want to KFC how much that we have I'll be done check my fucking money Yeah, and that that was the the whole thing with coven and for me and I think for probably Constantin and you as well that was a real wake -up moment for me where I was actually going Okay, how much of this is about keeping people safe which I can understand and by the way I can understand an overreaction as well when the virus was about to hear I remember saying to constantin Bank episodes we're gonna bank episodes now Bank bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang and I was like oh come on, man.

1:09:52It's just a flu It's nothing's gonna happen. This was like in January 2020. Yeah, right. I was like no, no you got to take the shit seriously And he was right And so there's that natural reaction where you go look this is serious We've got to you know, we've got to protect people their vulnerable people And then there's other stuff where you're going this makes no sense Yeah, but it's people wanting to do something they had a show that they had some what sort of a a measure of a plan And California the big one was closing the outside dining My my I've said this before so I apologize for people for it I put my friend his brother worked on the whole COVID force in Los Angeles And they were closing outside dining because there was a spike in cases and he goes but there's no evidence that outside dining You're gonna kill these business.

1:10:39She goes it's about the optics So about the optics to make a decision that kills businesses like these people are barely hanging on They were only able to serve people outside You know, I mean who knows how many bartenders and waitresses were just fucked the restaurant owners fucked everybody got fucked And it was about the optics that's just dumb people that's just that person should not have that position of power There's no fucking way that's that person to make that kind of a decision She'd have to debate a champion of the restaurant industry. Should have to debate a champion of health should have to debate a champion who understands like How how is this stuff being transmitted?

1:11:18Is it not being transmitted at all outside? Is that real true? What is the safety threshold of outside dining? And have someone fucking talk about you can't just wave a magic wand and decide that everybody has to go home That's crazy and so many people lost decades of their lives decades of their lives work And and it goes back to the importance of debate the importance of free speech. Yeah one of the most dreadful and terrible ideas that was allowed to propagate and I saw smart people Reiterating regurgitating constantly is words of violence Well, if words of violence then logically it makes sense to shut all of this down Because if you challenge me on something I say on something I say and you go actually for instance you're talking crap And I'm like well, that's violent Then I need to be protected because we need to be protected from physical violence And we've just allowed this idea to propagate so it's a crazy idea So to the time so none of our nobody's ideas get challenged We feel under threat if people challenge us It's ridiculous and that we've come to this point where you just see this status because Terrible ideas are allowed to flourish without people going No, you can't become a woman And then even the people that are inside these groups that disagree with it They keep their mouth shut because they don't want to be ostracized.

1:12:39They want to be cast out of the kingdom Nobody's able to like really fully express objective opinions about a variety of subjects You have to sort of you have to adopt a predetermined list of things that you agree with If you tell me how you feel about abortion I could almost entirely tell you how you feel about guns Most of the time like either That's weird It's all weird and the thing is well to your point Francis I feel like we've got to a point where it's become quite hard to Criticize people's ideas without people thinking that you're criticizing the person. I mean it happened with With your interview with Tucker like Tucker said some things that people didn't agree with and I think rightly And they pointed out some of the gaps and what he was saying But lots of people defended him on the basis that he was being attacked personally Even though people were simply disagreeing with the particular thing that he said what was that particularly I don't pay attention I think I release things I fucking We're talking about some wild shit.

1:13:37I was like this one's gonna get I think the evolution rest Got a lot of people's attention. Yes, that got well my friend Brett Weinstein who's an actual evolutionary biologist You know he didn't like it and Colin Wright who's an evolutionary biologist it's um I didn't understand the science enough to argue it unfortunately If Brett was in my position, they would have been much better with that subject. I think there's uh He had Tucker has a very I like him first of all a lot He's a very nice guy. I've got to hung out with him a couple times So hung out with them at the UFC I had dinner with him with Lex and then I brought him on stage with kill Tony Didn't even know he was gonna go on there and what went out and handled it amazingly.

1:14:15He's a good guy He's also bitterly embattled and has been for a long time and I think that can make you More aggressive or shittier about like certain things and uh in that regard like he's handled himself pretty well Like he's pretty smart about he doesn't use a computer. He doesn't watch television He just he has a phone. He does everything schedules everything through his phone and that's it And you know, he's managed to sort of filter himself out but He's got a very religious Bend to a lot of the things that he believes and you know, he's a smart guy. You're allowed to have that And he but he he believes God created people and he has this belief that he operates from and That makes the look The universe is so crazy the idea of God is not that crazy to me.

1:15:04It's just not I don't think it's any more crazy than anything I think maybe the universe is God Maybe that's what's going on. Maybe this is like constant creative force that's so immense you can't even possibly calculate it And that's that's God And he's got some ideas about spiritual things that are interesting like about good and evil and and these UAPs the UAPs being spiritual things but it seems like With all respect. It's it I feel like that's what he wants to think Do you know that he wants to think that they've always been here and their spiritual things And he might be right But it's also possible that there's a life form that's so advanced That it can avoid detection Anytime it wants and then slowly trickles out little bits of information to us whether it's a crashed vehicle Or letting a vehicle be seen or hovering over phoenix Do whatever that whatever it wants to do and then Fades away again and then every decade or so as human beings evolve It introduces more and more to the landscape which if you kind of looked at it on a graph seems to be the case And oddly seems to be the case that it's like primarily happening in the United States Like if you look at the difference between the UFO sightings around the world and the UFO sightings in the United States We're locked in we're locked in I said this to you last time I think yeah Yeah, when you asked me what do I think of aliens?

1:16:38I was like I would be a lot more I'd find it a lot more credible if it wasn't all in North America also as an American I have to say It's probably because we're the shit And if I was an alien what am I gonna do go to check us a walk you get the fuck out of here I'm gonna go check out San Francisco like look at all the shit in the streets Look at all the needles these people are crazy. I think There's probably both things going on I think there's probably Some sort of extra dimensional possibility That I think occurs during psychedelic drugs and during certain states of altered consciousness That I have a feeling you're you're tuning into something that's not always available But probably is always there and then there's probably a physical element of things coming here from somewhere else Because we do that It just seems so duh like allegedly we went to the moon But we definitely sent rovers to Mars We definitely send satellites into space and take incredible imagery of Jupiter We definitely do all that what why would we not think that another species would do that Especially if they get to some position where they're using some unique novel form of propulsion that Manipulates gravity and they just they don't have to worry about g forces Just a pure places which seems to be like what they think these things are doing Have you heard of that?

1:18:01There's a story about this Chinese scientist that was working on anti -gravity And she came from China to the United States to work on anti -gravity and she's worked on some anti -gravity propulsion system and then vanished Like probably went back to China. Yeah, I mean Probably back to China is like this is what they paid me to do Yeah, I mean there's a lot of people who vanish in China that that's the thing But I don't think she vann it she vanished from the United States. I think she went back to China. Oh one took the secret swive They think that's the worry is that this see if you can find that lady's name It's it's a very interesting story I was reading about it the other day and I remembered like someone you guys are perfect to talk about this because That would be the ultimate thing that you'd have to keep secret from another country Because if you have espionage if you have people that have infiltrated your universities and they certainly do And if you have people have re infiltrated your military Contractors and they certainly do we do it.

1:19:03I'm sure they do. Oh, they definitely do I mean the the southern border is the fact that it says open as it is. Yeah, that's a lot of them are coming through that Of course, yeah, but if you if you're making something that is an and some sort of a gravity propulsion system And you've made a breakthrough. You're not going to put that on wired .com You're not you know, you're not gonna broadcast that on CNN. Yeah, yeah tell anybody that Because of the other countries find out if the other superpowers of China and Russia find out that we have a some sort of a gravity propuls Everyone's gonna die Yeah, they're gonna steal all the information that makes sense still Solving the mystery of Huntsville's brilliant anti -gravity scientist Dr.

1:19:46Ning Ling Ling Lee Sun talks about her mom's career and legacy along with the internet's obsession with her disappearance So she when did she disappear I see she caught the papers and 93 hold on right there stop right there in the late 90 she claimed to have created anti -gravity devices that were fully functional And this was big news in both scientific journals and mainstream press in 1997 Dr. Lee continued to expand on her concept and conduct more experiments She published papers describing the anonymous anomalous weight changes in objects suspected over a rotating superconductor to say her work To refer to as Taming gravity could change the world as an understatement Taming gravity would drastically change the way we transport on every level humans could travel the world at ease And we could finally get our hands on those sweet hoverboards from back to the future So did she really do it?

1:20:44So what happened to her in 99? Lee left you a h to start her own company ac gravity and commercialize the device based on her theories Oh, you fucked up lady her colleagues obviously believed in her work as a chair of uh's physics department Larry Smalley Also departed the university to join their public record show that in 2001 the US Department of Defense gave ac gravity a grant for 448 ,970 dollars to research the technology however these results were never published in fact Dr. Lee never published anything again Even though the business license for ac gravity was updated yearly through 2018 There's no record of any further work done by the company Lee's career after 2002 is a subject of great mystery Barely sociable's research turned up a document showing that she gave a presentation at the 2003 Miter conference titled Measureability of ac gravity fields the miter corporation challenges federally funded research for several Manages, excuse me manages federally funded research for several US agencies at the conference She presented along with a redstone arsenal official from US Army aviation missile command meaning that her research was still being conducted up to that point So what did she took off when did she disappear?

1:22:00They think she went to China It goes on they don't this is a bunch of like they're not really sure and then in 2021 so it's like two years ago. Well, look at this though. Oh, I know bitch Ray popped up No, bitch worry on a funeral home and just outside of Birmingham where she was where like with this Hmm, she was it didn't say anything about her disappearance Hmm, um, in a bitch worried. They say how she died. I don't Check it was it water torture You don't say how I'm a bitch very See wow Pasta way peacefully But little that's a little sus More information about like how she would have conducted her life But if you scroll back up what I was gonna read a little bit more of something about her could uh right there a little bit higher Confirming her well -being that she was still working with the DOD But was unable to talk about her work.

1:23:01So she's working with the department of defense He also told Ventura that he was unable to get a working email address or phone number for her You know, bro they probably made a breakthrough and that's probably what happens when you make a real breakthrough They probably give you a very clear indication of how this is gonna go from here on out You're gonna be completely isolated from the rest of the world Yeah, this is there's no way we can trust that you're gonna tell anybody about this We're gonna have to fucking monitor everything you do and just you stop publishing you stop doing anything But here's the thing is that the wrong approach to take Is that the wrong approach to take when you when somebody has created something that could be such a monumental tool potentially a weapon that an enemy or Somebody you perceived to be an enemy could use it against you.

1:23:51I don't think it's wrong Approach to take I mean, I think if you're especially if you're dealing with someone who came over here from China That's like where is she going like keep an eye on that lady if she really cracked it and she cracked it with what if she's sharing That's the thing is like some of these drones that they're seeing and that's what I've always assumed that a lot of these things are especially the The the square within this fear that seems to you they keep finding She's disappeared and gone back to China Said so far to shoot was working with NASA and the redstone arsenal, but she disappeared for several years now The people at the Pentagon cannot reach her anymore She's allegedly back in China and the Chinese are pouring money into similar experiments now.

1:24:36Uh -oh That's why our intelligence guys are very interested The most likely people to develop the first anti -gravity propulsion technology are the Chinese. That's right. I'm showing That's crazy. That's a crazy statement the most look when someone says that publicly go that go back to that That's already again Jamie the most likely people to develop the first anti -gravity propulsion technology are the Chinese the fact that he's saying that If you're saying that publicly that means they're probably on it. Yeah But if that lady really did crack something and really was able to make things hover Oh And it was just fall back as what 93 mm -hmm well 2004 was that big sighting commander David Fraver when he found that thing that looked like a tick -tack That was hovering over the water and disappeared at insane rate of speed They got video of this thing different fighter jets on they said this thing just took off Just no visual means of propulsion.

1:25:41There's no windows no rockets just Just gone and there's video of it this video of this thing just moving at this insane rate of speed that would turn human bodies in the Jell -O I think it's a drone. I think they probably had a few of those. I think they've been where that's why they're always occurring around new Around military bases Like San Diego's filled with military. It's all military out there. So if they're off the coast of off the They're near the Nimitz right so they're just fucking all sorts of Tests and training things they're they're running out there. That's what they do Of course, that's where they're gonna train their fucking drones too Of course, that's we're gonna if you've got some crazy high -tech thing and you want to see how do the fighter jets see it Like what do you fucking don't tell them and you put it in the ocean and then you say go fly over there And they fly over there and they see this fucking thing that can go from 50 ,000 feet above sea level to zero in like a second Like what are we watching?

1:26:39Man, it's so crazy some of the stuff like human beings are coming up with I don't know if you know this the Russians have a tsunami torpedo. Have you heard about it? It starts tsunamis Yeah, oh what it's a tsunami torpedo Jamie would you so fun? Buy Malibu Basically a nuclear torpedo it explodes underwater Causing a tsunami which can wash you know half the United States off the half the United States Well, if it hits the seaboard on both sides. Yeah, I mean it will be harder for them obviously from the east But from the west oh my god you can wash off, you know all of California just like Well, you could do that down here too then you could do it in Texas.

1:27:16You could do it all over the country All over where the water is Russian TV news a dance Russian News agency TSS reported that Russia had produced the first set of nuclear powered very long -range nuclear arm torpedoes known as Poseidon strategic experts are warning that the Poseidon torpedoes would have the potential to devastate a coastal city Causing radioactive floods and result in millions of deaths. Oh fuck dude Wow, look at this haunted News outlets have painted a hauntingly vivid picture of a towering 1000 Foot tall radioactive soon. I know you wrote tabloid I know tabloid news But but is that possible a thousand foot tall radioactive tsunami violently crashing into British shores Pulverizing everything in its path and transforming the whole cities into barren lifeless lands isn't The kind of power that they have now is What how much more powerful are they than fat man and little boy?

1:28:27It's a lot, right? Yeah What is a magnitude? I think yeah, the hydrogen bomb is way more powerful than the atomic bomb So if they have like some top of the food chain best of what we've got today Nuclear weapon and they detonated into the ocean. What does that look like? Yeah, I'm sure you've seen those Those tests they did when they blew up atomic bombs in the ocean and you get to see like how high the water goes into the sky Sorry, I'm just got declassified not too long ago Wow Russian Did they drop that in the water? Does that water no their way up in the clouds there. Oh my gosh. Look at that.

1:29:04Isn't it kind of ironic that the thing that might kill us all looks like a mushroom But that's Does anybody save us all? Imagine if that's what gods trying to tell us and that's not 61. This is the only thing that's gonna keep you from new can each other. Yeah, mushrooms Ciao down boys Through the most horrific thing that human beings can do yeah the indiscriminate murder of hundreds of thousands of people instantaneously Yeah Maybe that's what we need to do we need to actually basically just before everybody gets the power You're gonna do a mushroom trip. You're gonna connect to the spirituality of the earth You're gonna connect with your fellow human beings You're gonna understand that we are all one and then you're gonna be allowed to do your job and then you're gonna drop out of the race I don't want that job.

1:29:53Oh you give him to buy the knee ties And what they can in context. Yeah, there's certainly some strange battle that's going on right now that I don't think most people were aware was gonna ever take place No, I think that's part of what the problem is what is this video of this? 1961 Sar bomb. Yes Like means the king bomb King of I mean imagine being that guy in that plane going I am getting cancer for sure For sure. Do they even know they're getting cancer probably not probably not Do you know that all the guys that worked on this one John Wayne movie all one up getting cancer? Cuz they were filming it out in the Nevada desert holy shit.

1:30:33Yeah Which one was that was that? Oh um I don't know but they did a lot of a lot of the viewers in the video of the show all the different tests that they did in Nevada No The plot is radioactive That's why they let them fucking put casinos there The conqueror considered the worst film of 1950 suffered from a toxic working environment It was filmed near a nuclear test site out of the 220 cast and crew members 91 developed cancer See 46 see Joe that is a real toxic work in environment It's not because someone said something you didn't like That is like the worst movie of his career. Yeah, the worst movie was career killed him wasn't even worth it Yeah exactly.

1:31:15Can you imagine that like That is the worst at least let's say you create this incredible movie a work of art that will go down in history For generations as an iconic piece of cinematography and that happened It would still be awful and excusable, but you'd go but look at what they created as anyone ever seen the conqueror I think I want to see it now Some of those really old bad movies are amazing. Yeah, they're amazing to watch the gang is con movie. Oh, is that what it is? Oh my god, it's a gang is con movie. Yeah, Joe was terrible. He played genghis Khan. It's terrible John Wayne played genghis Khan bro that is cultural appropriation to the end to be It's when it just like John Wayne Genghis Khan Talked like John Wayne and his girlfriend was white No I mean she looks incredibly mongolian Did they do anything to him with makeup?

1:32:09It seems like they did they must have done that mustache Yeah, the mustache, but what about his face not really huh? No, they've just probably put a little bit of color in there gang guys con I'm the fucking man look it was 1956 it was a better time It wasn't a better time. This is the best time. I know I'm kidding. Don't you think I mean is all although Completing we do this is the best time. Go sit it's a great time to be a like this is also a time where you have There's a very interesting things going up. Look at this looks It's really corny he looks Iranian. Yeah, well that wasn't him there.

1:32:45Oh, this is John this is John Is not safe on your shoulders Now your daughter in her bed Yeah First of all dudes back then just didn't work out. No, you know But they were seen as the epitome of masculinity crazy look at that Yeah, that's because no one knew any better. Mm -hmm And also if a vendor Hallefield was standing there Holding that thing up you like damn vendor Hallefield in his prime you'd be like damn. That's what a man looks like Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I don't think they don't have a move. Yeah, I know the field is gankus con And he's just a fast thing He's been a bother I just met his face.

1:33:29No, I don't I don't but you're so right Joe I mean we can complain and I think there's a lot of things to fear about the future And there's a lot of shit that's fucked up right now, but at the same time It's an amazing time to be alive and look at the three of us. Well, we do sit and chat share on the internet Yeah, and it's a great life. Yeah, it is a great life and it's it's also uniquely Educational right look I've there's so many things that I know that I would have never known I've never been even interested in knowing But because I have this opportunity just to be able to talk to people I've had a like a total accidental education Yeah, and it's also your listeners in your viewers as well are getting that education as well Yeah, not how many people like men and women grow up in a really, you know poor rural part of America all over the world And they don't have access to a quality of education Because of whatever reason all of a sudden they can go online and whatever they're interested They can find yeah, if they're interested in astrophysics They can sit down and listen to one of the greatest astrophysicists in the world Explain string theory whatever it may be right and they have access to that information whereas before Forget it.

1:34:39It doesn't matter how talented you were if you didn't have access to that information You're done. You're never gonna realize you're telling yeah I mean just imagine growing up in the 1950s or when the John Wayne movie was made your your access to information was so and people Good lie to you. You had no idea. There's no Google Someone just tells you some crazy story about their past you have to believe it I mean it was so easy. I bet back then to be like a con man, right? Yeah, there's trick people and they're giving you money I'm actually a prince and You just have some crazy story and people like it's actually a prince Yeah, think about this in in medieval times if you were just a normal person like a peasant or whatever You probably never leave your village.

1:35:19Yeah, you probably never read a book you probably the some total of knowledge that you have Is the equivalent of like two days at school for us? Yeah, that's how little information people had Yeah, and you you're listening to mythology and all superstitions and you're terrified of everything. There's witch doctors and Yeah, who know and say by the time you're Dying you're just recognizing the hustle by the time you're I mean if if you're a 40 -year -old man You're just starting to really like oh this is kind of I think this thing's rigged You know, yeah, it takes a long -ass time to see how complicate and then to have so many interactions with people that you realize like how sometimes people don't really say what they think They kind of say what they're expected to say and they self sense and you see that and people like I can't talk to him anymore And you get and you get this you get an education of human beings that it's based on interactions and it takes forever And everyone's so different you we all assume that other people are gonna think the way we think and they just Fuck it don't they don't and if you have this rigid idea of how people should think about things And you encounter This is wide variety of different ways of thinking about things it makes you a little more hesitant to cling on to your ideas Yeah, because I think too many people think of their ideas as a part of them like that just ideas You're you and you're who you are the value in you is your ability to not attach to ideas ability to look at ideas for whether even if you think they're amazing say why you think they're amazing But they're not a part of you so don't argue them like they're a part of you Let people have differing opinions on them and then address those differing opinions in a relaxed way That can be done instead of others Yelly, shouty, childish bullshit that so many people engage in that just makes people more tribal It just makes people and then they fucking dunk on each other and back and forth.

1:37:17It's just dumb It's a it's a dumb way for smart people to behave It's what happens when you let your ego get involved When your ego is the most important thing when you think you are the most important thing As you walk into any room or you participate in any conversation or interaction and the reality is you're not important You're important in in some ways into your family and whatever else But in the grand scheme of things these you know you just see these people in the outrage and the anger they feel because All of a sudden Their sense of self has been challenged. Yeah, and they are not mentally or spiritually robust enough to be able to push back on that Or to be able to accept that challenge Yeah, and it creates as this kind of you should almost see it like it's kind of mini ego death where they just freak out and you go We're just having a conversation.

1:38:08Yeah, freak out of an idea. Yeah Well, this is what I was saying earlier about we have to be able to disagree with each other and criticize other people's Ideas and what they say without thinking that it's about the person you're not attacking the person you can disagree with someone strongly That's what I'm saying about RFK's genes We're talking about clothing people know the other time. That's much more personal Yeah, I also think that men in particular a lot of men have a desire to compete in things and if you're not competing with yourself Like you're not running and trying to like make your time better or working out or whatever whatever the thing that's difficult to do If you don't have one of those then you start using whatever your job is or whatever your ideology is as your way of competing And you try to enforce it on people or come up with better arguments or dunk on the people that disagree or You know harshly criticize them as a human being because you have different opinions Yeah, I sometimes fall into that trap and something I'm really trying to work on because like whenever I watch you disagree with people I think it always makes me think that that's a good way to do because you're always very careful You're very respectful you're very calm about it Well, no always I think you and crowd are over weed that that got pretty intense But yeah, apart from that like lots of times I've seen you disagree with people and it's clear that you don't agree But you're just trying to explore the argument.

1:39:31Yeah, you get better at doing that. Yeah, it's a skill It's a really trying to learn that for sure. It's it's also important to Recognize how people are taking in your words and thoughts You know, especially when you were doing like the kind of stuff that we do where we're just kind of free -balling You you're you're trying it's you're making a thing right you're having a conversation But you're also making a digestible piece of media you're making a thing And the best way to make that thing is to try to get the most understanding of what this person tries to say even if you disagree with them So I want to know why you I don't want to just know that you think this I want to know why you think this and I'll let you go Not even if I disagree.

1:40:10I want to I want to hear you I don't even if I disagree sometimes. I don't even have to challenge you on it. I just I'm really interested Even if I don't agree I'm really interested in how you come to your conclusions and what other Information do you take into account and what is your personality like like are you is this your identity? Are you fighting for this this there's you see this a lot with like these really aggressive liberal men Like it seems to be their their station in life. They're the watchman on the tower There's like this aggressive and it's generally these weak really weak physically weak Mentally weak men that have adopted this aggressive stance like finally like there the bullies now and they're gonna go out It's it's interesting So if you talk to someone that has like that sort of a philosophy if you just talk to them about general life enough It sort of reveals itself the the cracks in the way they think in the lack of character and the lack of Discipline and most importantly the lack of compassion When when people disagree with someone and they hate them as a human being because they have differing ideas Instead of saying I think that if I talked to them I could give them my perspective and maybe would be enlightening or maybe we would Find common ground.

1:41:28No, it's like hate them as a person and it's It's cherished. It's saluted online in the mental illness known as social media The mental illness factory these people are all like engaging in this back and forth And you see these people that have finally found their competitive realm and that's a that flavors a big part of why men talk and behave that way There's like an there's an instinct to want to be good at a thing and beat people out of thing Whether it's chess or whether it's golf whatever it is There's a thing and maybe for you it's politics and for a lot of guys I know it's politics because I see them online I see what they're doing.

1:42:07I see the writing they're doing Fishing for the right words and seeing the right things try to dunk on people and it's just their little competitive venture It's it's a fear -based response. I think a lot of it It's something that I've tried to look at now when I see people get aggressive when I see people Behaving a certain way. I'm like oh you're scared. Yeah, you're scared from the right to yeah Really shitty right wing people that are very dismissive of entire swathes of Of people and culture and don't take into consideration the nuance involved and Say like crime -ridden areas and how those things became that way in the first place All that pulled them up by their boots traps bullshit all that no need for any social safety net stuff like all that like lack of compassion Lack of caring about people that that that mask of raids as conservatism That's just as gross and there's a kind of wokey vacation that's happening on the right They've got their own conspiracies their own little trigger points all all of these ideas do they like what's the big one?

1:43:10Well, I wrote a piece actually when Tucker went to Moscow because I thought that His conversational Putin was he I clearly didn't go the way he intended but it was fine I had no issue with him interview Putin But the videos he did afterwards He was he was kind of like He felt to me like he was starting to you know the woke people they hate America and they hate everything the West dance for and There is a movement on the right way. It's like they hate the elite so much That they will go to Russia and be impressed and think that the food is cheaper when it's three times more expensive for the average person You know in Russia it is yeah, of course.

1:43:44So was he trying to say it was cheaper? He did say was cheaper And objectively it is cheaper as in if you're coming with your American salary But comparatively it's much more expensive because Russian salaries far less right So they spent three times as much money on food he talked about how they have the shopping carts when you return it Right and all of this stuff just have to become an oligarch then that's easy And you have all the money in the big yacht. It's very very hard nowadays. Yeah, yeah, they still you're out you're yacht Yeah, so in the 90s the oligarchs basically seized all the money and then Putin came in and he got rid of all the oligarchs And all his buddies and now the oligarchs like it's it's been like nationalized the corruption.

1:44:22Yeah, I bet they have great parties though They do as a party with Putin that'd be so scary But you can't go to near the balcony because a lot of their balconies are slippy and they fall off. Oh, yeah You know about a drunk yeah, they slip yeah, they just slip and fall and die man. Yeah exactly We just shoot drones at people okay You know, it's like both both of them do shady shit if you look at All the people that have died in mysterious ways in this country where it's a little suspect That maybe there was some government involvement right yeah, eventually killed our president You know We just had the Michael Franci son.

1:44:59Do you know him? I've seen him online He think about that. Well, we had it He was interesting conversation about the mafia life and everything else But when we did the paywall section for locals at the end He talked about how like he was an open secret in his circles the the mafia killed JFK basically How was his take? Yeah, and they would they would they were talking about it for ages and they were even joking about it So when for instance Bobby went after the mob People in the mob we've gone. Huh killed the wrong Kennedy Mm -hmm, you know because and he was saying that it was Jay Edgar Hoover who was in goots with the mafia and the thing with Jay of Edgar Hoover was He was gay Mafia ranked gay clubs They had the dirt on him being a gay man, which whenever this was in mid 60s early 60s You couldn't be an openly gay man Right, and he was also a guy who of course if you're gonna be the guy that has secrets you want the secrets on everybody else So that's what he did like Jay Edgar was famous for that.

1:45:59Yeah, being this guy would bring you into the office Show your pictures. You fucking some lady that's not your wife. You got any questions What are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? I think you know how to vote right? Yeah, do that Yeah, stay the fuck out of my office. Yeah. Yeah, I mean dirt back then they could just there was no internet If they put in a story about you you're fucked. It's rap Everyone's gonna believe it. There's no way you could you like that's not even real. It's Photoshop like there's so many of the photos of The Lee Harvey Oswald that are in dispute and one of them. It's a really weird one It's him standing there with a rifle standing in the backyard and photo experts have looked at and go This is like the shadows are all wrong here like this photo looks manipulated Like they just take this photo of Lee Harvey Oswald have him holding up some agenda or I forget what it was in a rifle I'm like, hmm if you're seeing that photo.

1:46:51Nope. See you can find that I would like to know if like real photography Photography experts have ever Examined it because I know that it's a subject of a lot of controversy. They think it was a doctored photo But he most certainly was a CIA guy He went to Russia. He married a Russian lady. They let him come back over here Like he brought they were probably all in on it He was probably in on it too and they probably had him set up as being the the dummy that they were gonna Say and then they had Jack Ruby set up to kill him. So that'll be that's it. We're done here And until the supreme to film got aired on heraldor vera show no one had any idea There was some weirdness to that assassination Everybody's soon Lee Harvey Oswald was a terrible man and he shot our favorite president and then you know This guy who ran a club hated him because he shot the president.

1:47:41So he shot him and that's it. Good night My it's just you That when you look at these types of things and the more you dig you the more you kind of realize that there's cover up upon cover up And what is initially being fed to you ain't the truth. So here's the photograph. Do they think it's legit here? Settling the controversy over photo of Lee Harvey Oswald This is from Dartmouth so you know that it's corrupt and funded by the Chinese Just kidding What do they say? Do they say it's real? I'm trying to dig through it real quick. Do they think it's legit? Our detailed right there Our detailed analysis of Oswald's polls the lighting and shadows and the rifles hand refutes the argument of photo tampering Interesting there you go Joe.

1:48:28Debon a pioneering researcher in digital forensics whose team develop mathematical and computational techniques to detect tampering in photos videos audio recordings and other documents Farid has examined the photo closely before in studies in 2009 2010 but these studies did not address the questions about Oswald's polls And the new study for in his team conducted a 3D stability analysis concluding that in fact Oswald's dance does not support the claims of photo tampering Study appearing the journal of digital forensic security and law. So it seems like in 2009 and in 2010 They thought it was mucky'd with and then they got that Chinese money And I just get it I'm getting go back to the photo again But here's the things like Why wouldn't he post like that the guy was a psycho Yeah, I mean Lee Harvey Oswald was a mess period and and probably an agent Well part of it that they think was fake I guess I don't know Think they thought they that was someone else standing there like that Like they added his face or something.

1:49:26Yeah, they they I think there was some argument about the proportions of the body That it didn't quite match Lee Harvey. What's he supposed to be holding like tickets to Russia or something? Yeah, too tick Magic tickets of that big. Yeah, they used to be probably what that big. Yeah, especially back in the day. No, it's That's the thing with because They definitely killed Kennedy. Yeah When's one guy when when you prove when you put forward that theory where you go This feels sus and then they never released the documents. I think it was time Wasn't still still and Trump and Trump why didn't Trump release them?

1:50:07No, he was going to any city was and then he never did But that's that's what I'm asking why didn't he do? I think his direct quote was if they showed you what they showed me you wouldn't release it either What the fuck does that mean? It means it probably It's probably proof that someone That is trackable had Kennedy assassinated and then there was a conspiracy probably involving at least some members of the intelligence agency. So why wouldn't because then it would call into People would lose confidence entirely in the intelligence agencies if they knew that the intelligence agencies had Not just gotten rid of Richard Nixon which Tucker explained.

1:50:48I'm sorry. I saw that like that's a wild thing to know That a guy was an A naval intelligence officer gets a job as a reporter and his first job as like an aspiring reporter is You get the biggest story in fucking the United States history and that CIA agents broke into Watergate and that the guy who they had put into position as the vice president Gerald Ford Was the the guy was on the Warren Commission report and that Spiro Agnew who is the real vice president They got him on tax evasion and locked him like this It seems like you coup that the that what we're was getting is information from the FBI like the whole thing was wild When you hear about it that way when like the way Tucker laid it out you like whoa So they killed Kennedy and Apparently what Tucker was saying is that Nixon had said that he knew why they killed JFK And that was the head of the CIA who's talking to so it wasn't the time did not respond at all and Then next thing you know like within a short amount of time Nixon's out.

1:51:52Wow. I guess what I'm asking Joe is surely Not releasing it and the mind's confidence as well It it certainly does but not as much because it's still a mystery so maintains a mystery It's been a mystery since we were kids. It was the first conspiracy that I ever got into I was in New York and a friend of my game. You book He said gotta read this as it called best evidence by David Lichten And it's all about this guy who was an accountant went over the Warren Commission and he found all these Real problems with it all his contradictions like didn't make any sense. It's all piece together No one thought everyone was gonna anyone was actually gonna read the entire It's like 9 ,000 pages or something and he did and there's a lot of problems with it The big one for me was always the bullet the bullets ridiculous The bullets ridiculous that bullet did not go through two fucking people and come out looking like that That's not what happens the bullets Bulls get destroyed.

1:52:44They get blown apart. They get fucking They've never been able to shoot a bullet through two people's bodies and have it ricochet and move around like that Not distort and look like they just shot it into a pool Looks like they shot it into a bag of pillows It doesn't look anything like something that shattered bones and they found more they found evidence of like fragments and connelly's wrist And there's not fragments missing from the it's not enough fragments missing from this magic bullet that they found And the only reason why they found the magic bullet at all they had to come up with this theory Because a guy had gotten hit by a ricochet in the underpass So that then they had to attribute all these different wounds to one bullet wounds on two different people And bullets do weird shit the path of the bullet doesn't bother me as much When people say like bullets not gonna go here and here and hit yeah wood yeah, yeah, they do yeah You can shoot someone in the eye and they're fucking the bullet will bounce around side their head and come out their face Weird things happen with bullets and guns so that doesn't bother me as much But the idea that you're completely discounting the fact that he grabs his neck in the beginning and then his head goes back into the left Like what's going on there?

1:53:53Is he getting shot from behind and it's a spinal movement? There's like a shock nerve thing Perhaps or perhaps he's getting shot in the head by two different people too It could be someone from behind and so much there could be no like a whole line of fire where they're shooting on this guy and To try to the only reason why they tried to attribute all those wounds instead of saying more people are shooting It's because they wanted one conclusion and that was Lee Harvey Oswald did it and they didn't think he'd be able to shoot more than three times In that short amount of time that the the president's car was going through there Do you think Trump said that if we take if I knew what he say if I if you knew what I knew You wouldn't want me to release it.

1:54:34Yeah, right. Do you think that you said that to someone and then that someone You know it was that guy who was the Fox legal analyst An older gentleman Alan Dershowitz. No, no, no, no, no, no, a Italian guy Fuck But scar What is his name? Scar much no, no, no, no, no, not Scar Midgey god damn it out remembers name But he's a guy that was like a legal guy who was always on Fox He's a and he had a conversation with Trump. Oh, actually where he said that Trump had said that you wouldn't have released it too Do you think they'll ever release them? No No, no, I don't I don't think so. Do you think it's kind of This principle where there's a thread on the sweater if you pull the suit if you pull the thread the sweater on rebels do you think That The America is a country wouldn't be able to take the reveal of whatever happened Because it would it would then go on to undermine people's faith in the nation too much Because if an organized agency like the CIA Can go and kill the president of United States.

1:55:44Yeah cover it up for however many years Then what else is possible and what does that mean in people who believe in this country? Yeah, yeah, I think that's exactly it and then how much scrutiny with the intelligence agencies of today have to encounter now Just from things that we know right we know that they put agents in crowds at protests We know that for a fact Okay, but what are those agents do are those agents there in case things go sideways or are those agents making sure Things go sideways because those are two very different things So we know both of those things have happened So we know that they definitely put agents in place to make sure that if something happens There's a law enforcement presence and they get arrest people We also know that there are rogue agents that will get into these situations and whether it's their job or whether it's They just act on their own where they want to cause someone to do a crime so they can bust them We know that's real.

1:56:44It's agent provocateurs. It's a legitimate strategy It's always been in place. Yeah, and it happens in other countries as well. It's all governments do all governments to it Agent provocateurs false flags all those things are real. Yeah, they the the northwoods report which Kennedy vetoed Operation northwoods they were gonna blow up a fucking drone jetliner and blame it on the Cubans they were gonna Arm Cuban friendlies and fuck up guantanamo bay they were just kind of try to get us to war with Cuba by bullshit And this was the joint chiefs of staff. They signed off on it. They're like sounds good I like it good plans.

1:57:17I'll plan and the argument against it is well They draft a lot of different plans and that one got vetoed obviously like what but no no you can't You can't lie you can't say one of our plans is to lie don't lie like that shouldn't be on the table You shouldn't be able to lie to people not just lie but set up fake attacks Especially after you just did it in Vietnam They didn't got away with it the Gulf of Donkinaistan they're got us in the Vietnam So they've always been doing that and so if they came out and gave us all the information on the Kennedy assassination It would cause an erosion and our faith in government that is never been seen before and I don't know How would we would survive it?

1:58:00I mean, I maybe they're right. Maybe they're right. Maybe keep it quiet Maybe don't do it anymore, but maybe keep it quiet because if you do really set information I bet the only thing that makes sense is that that's the case. Yeah It doesn't make sense that it's innocuous then there's nothing to it and Lee Harvey Oswald act alone they would release that Oh for sure. Well, there's definitely something going on the question is what is it? That's the dude. Yeah, no The Paul Tano. Yeah, yes He's saying that Trump told him yes exactly exactly Wow, so crazy man. Yeah, I mean that's the thing about Trump is that you listen to what that guy says He went yeah, Trump definitely said that but they hide things from Trump too.

1:58:45Apparently they were hiding the Chinese weather balloons They were hiding the spy balloons from them because they were afraid he was gonna shoot them down If I don't that's true. I'm out of I'm out of I'm out of see that I'm ready I'm out of being on an arconspiracy. Oh man Knowing Trump he tried Shocking no, I think he'd be up there in a helicopter with a fucking missile launcher itself I've got the best accuracy Yeah, three Chinese balloons flew over US during Trump presidency. Trump wasn't offered chance to shoot them down at the time It's true Trump wasn't I like how they say they hit it from them.

1:59:43This is how they say they hit it from Trump wasn't offered chance To shoot them down at the time. He wasn't offered the chance at the cuz cuz saying you They didn't tell him that he could shoot him down. That's so funny man From the they don't trust the president and they're hiding that that's insane. It's insane. It's insane What's fucking who the fuck are they like no who voted for them. Yeah exactly. Yeah That's the thing but when you get a guy like Trump who becomes president It seems so ridiculous that he's president all rules go out the window. Yeah, but fuck you half the country voted for this guy Fuck yeah, look I probably wouldn't have voted for Trump in 2016 But half the country did it was like the same with Brexit.

2:00:22They try we we didn't vote for Brexit But half the country did yeah, that's what democracy looks like is sometimes you don't get your way Yeah, how fucking complicated is that to understand? Yeah, but if you're a corrupt piece of shit and you're very un -American Then you feel like you should be able to do that or frame it another way if you believe That this guy prove is such a danger to democracy right you that's how you argue it with yourself That's how you squate you got look. I'm doing the right thing here. I'm protecting my country I'm stepping in when this person is clearly you know not fit to hold off this blob I'm not saying I agree with that's the real problem with the The real misinformation media narrative like the Russia collusion hoax.

2:01:05Oh, man That's a real problem because that in in so many boomers minds That guy was corrupt Russia had something on him. There's the steel dossier is hookers and PP and all that stuff Pentagon may have purposely hidden spy balloon from Trump Republican Representative from Florida that made the claim he made the claim But what was that other articles? That Trump wasn't offered the opportunity to shoot it down. That's what was the source of that? This is so He's saying this because Trump did not that it even happened under his administration. Oh, but it did But they did happen so they didn't tell him so they didn't tell or or he lied That's what this is is he spoke that would never happen So And there's some speculation I talked to Trump at the White House officials over the weekend that the Pentagon deliberately did it because they thought Trump would be too provocative and too aggressive Yeah, but it's amazing that they think that they could tell him that but listen that's the whole idea if you really want to have a president And this ladies and gentlemen is how AI is going to take over because AI is going to be so much more reasonable how it runs a country Just given to Microsoft AI Yeah One thing if you really want to blow your mind with this is if you think about where The large language models are getting the information from where the AI is gathering its opinions about what human beings are We all know that everything that happens online is not representative of the real world But that is where the AI models are gathering the information.

2:02:35That's what they're reading what people are writing online So we are training these systems to think of us as the online shit that we all know is fake We all know people don't talk online the way they talk like in person, right? We all know that everything that happens there is a warped perception of reality Yet that is exactly what AI is learning about who we are But don't you think that the Google AI is a little bit more sinister than that I don't think it's as simple as it's just getting all of its information online because then there would be arguments But there's a lot of arguments online as to whether or not You know Transwomen should be able to compete in women's sports.

2:03:10Yeah, but if you ask those AI's they come up with reasons why it should yeah and if you have an ideologically programmed AI that's not really AI. It's kind of like a propaganda It's you're it's it's not just looking at the opinions of all the people online. No, it's just not no no What there is I think is probably just because most of the people who are doing the programming lean that way To them this isn't I this is an ideological to them. It's the truth. Yeah exactly They have the truth. They know what it is hashtag no debate. Yeah, hashtag no no no no point debating no point discussing We know what the truth is and anyone who disagrees with us they're far right.

2:03:51Yeah Yeah, what do we do with people who are far right? Yeah, yeah cancel Consul putman gel or maybe we need a final solution job Ha ha ha Well, you know if somebody is uh, gender critical. Maybe you know, maybe they just need to be put somewhere permanently Or they certainly shouldn't be allowed to work no, absolutely So funny these people went so far that like they think JK Rowling is a Nazi. They still haven't woken up They still haven't gone Something wrong with our argument if JK Rowling is on the other team It's like, oh man, it's so funny. Did you see this tweet from his list? She's a beast though, man.

2:04:33Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. She's going to have her heels in. Yeah, good for her. Yeah, good for her. You know, there's this left wing journalist. I'm not going to say the name, but her tweet made me laugh so much. She put out this tweet going, I'm writing this tweet to apologize. On March 13th, I called J .K. Rowling a Holocaust denier. It's just like a Holocaust denier. Why would she call her that? Because in her mind, it's the same thing. Yeah. If you say trans women or women, you'd also say Auschwitz didn't happen. And I feel so strongly about it as someone who lost relatives in the Holocaust.

2:05:12What they've done to those words, Holocaust denier, Nazi, far right, is abominable. It really is. What they've done to those words, the way they've diluted the meaning of these words that have very specific meanings, it's horrific. And it's, by the way, it's costing us now because we can't have a genuine conversation about like some people are Holocaust denier. Some people are actually supportive of those ideologies, right? And you have to be able to distinguish between that and someone who thinks trans women shouldn't be fighting in a cage with real women. There's like some fucking difference there.

2:05:44There's a gap between, yeah, just a little bit of a gap. And words like they have a meaning for a purpose so that we can have a conversation. Yeah, it's such an important point. And the worst bit is is you have these people who are genuinely far right, they're terrifying, they have these awful views. And then when they challenge they go, I'm not far right because you've said this person is far right, that term doesn't mean anything. And you're like, you know what Adolf, you've got a point, mate. Yeah, it's a real problem because far right people, dangerous far right people are real. Just like dangerous far left people are real.

2:06:22And that's why being on this goofy team left or right is so stupid. You got to think for yourself. Yeah. You got to think for yourself. Yeah. And life is complicated and it's full of complexity and nuance and nobody has the full picture of reality. That's where you got to talk. That's why you need Jesus. I mean, that's what Jordan is talking about. That's what Jordan's talking about. Yeah, he is. Well, structure, some kind of divine structure, something. Whatever it is, I mean, I know a lot of people that are Muslims that are very happy. And they're happy because of the discipline that it gives them.

2:06:57They believe, they believe it gives them a structure. And a lot of people out there don't have that. And I don't think that's good either. He's really in the inquire of it. His current tour is called We Who Rassel with God. I mean, what he's really doing is telling people stories from the Bible and illustrating and breaking down how they apply to your life. And it's amazing. I mean, I'm not a believer. Well, yeah, I'm not, I guess. But seeing the difference that makes to people, just him telling them how to live a good life, thousands of people every night. And then they aren't there for his culture war takes.

2:07:36Right. They aren't there to see him take down Justin Trudeau or whatever. They're there because he's like, we were in a cigar bar in Tulsa with the guy who does the music, David Cotta. And we just sitting there and the guy came up who was at the show. Started talking and before we knew there was like three guys there. And one of, I mean, I remember one of them, especially Devon, black guy, he was saying, like, I don't know about his politics. People say all this crazy shit. Like when my sister died, Jordan Peterson's 30 -second clip on the internet is the only reason I didn't kill myself. Wow.

2:08:10And I've been hearing those stories every night, man. Well, he has a very profound impact on people for sure. Yeah. And he also struggles with fame, which is a weird thing to be introduced to when you're in your 40s. You know, you've been anonymous your whole life. And then also, you're a polarizing often misrepresented world figure. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the, that's how unfair it is. Is the way, I would take real exception to this, the way that he's been portrayed, where people go, he's just like Andrew Tate. And he's going, yeah, he's got a penis. The drink water. And he's got a penis. Yeah, man, it's insane.

2:08:48But you know what, I have to say, from what I've observed over the last couple of weeks, he's on the other side of all those troubles. That's good. Yeah, you know, he's, I've never met anyone who's, whose message and the person are so closely aligned. Like he's, he's a great man. He is a great man. And last time he was here, he was like at his best. He had struggled coming back from the Benzodias being a problem. That's a scary one, man. That's a really scary one. No, he's, he's through that. And like just observing him day to day, because you know, when you spend time with people, you see them at their worst, kind of their best.

2:09:20Yes. I've never met anyone who's inspired me as much to like, be a good person. That's awesome. Yeah, I always say he's insanely misrepresented. And he's a great guy. But he's so polarizing. You see, like whenever there's some sort of a Jordan Peterson thing, a story or anything, I'll read like what people have to say about it. And it's like, God damn, like it's again. And he's also indicative of the kind of people that post things like that. Like that's not generally a healthy person. It's posting like a aggressively shitty misrepresenting. But it's like very common that there's people like that, especially on Twitter, or on Facebook.

2:09:59I mean, these places that just encourage mental illness, which is a lot of what it is. Yeah. Well, here's the thing, the man in the real world, he's selling out fucking basketball arenas. Yeah. And it's full of well -dressed people who are there with their partner that they met because of the advice he gave them or they're there to meet him because he's changed their life. Or they didn't kill themselves or they got a job or whatever. Yeah. That's the impact he's actually making on people's lives. And it's so impressive. Yeah, we need more people like that. We need way more people like that. Yeah, we need more people that show an example, like an interesting, fascinating example of how to live your life.

2:10:37The problem is is that we live in a world of shortcuts. If you want an online following, we all know what we can do in order to get an online following. It's not particularly hard. You can game the system. You know the tweets to write and that will then gain traction, which will gain you followers, whatever else. You know what you have to do if you want to create a content online. When it comes to podcasts, that will get people talking. We all know it. But actually it's far, far, far more difficult to be authentic. And to actually say, you know what? I'm going to do something because it's the right thing to do.

2:11:14Nobody because it's going to benefit me in the short term. Not because it's going to lead to certain deals. Not because it's going to lead me to this particular place where my ego demands that I should be. I'm actually going to take the long road. I'm going to do what's right. And we live in a society where we're constantly being offered the shortcut. All the time. And we know that if we take the shortcut, we're going to get a little bit of a response from our brain. We'll go well done on taking the shortcut. Yeah. It takes a hell of a lot of discipline, hard work and sometimes real frustration to go, I'm not going to take the shortcut.

2:11:50I'm not going to be inflammatory. I'm not going to say the thing that I know will guarantee clicks and more money and more revenue. I'm going to go this path. I just have to have the courage of my own convictions that where this path will lead me will be somewhere where I want to be as opposed to somewhere that I know definitely in the long term will take me on the route to hell because that's where some people are. It's so interesting you say hell because I never really understood when people ask Jordan about heaven and hell, he always brings it back to heaven and hell on earth. And what he's really saying is like every decision you make when you know it's the wrong decision, you're going to pay for that.

2:12:29Not in some fucking magic world afterwards when you're dead, you're going to pay for that in this life. And when you make good decisions, that's not to say that good things don't happen to bad people and bad things that happen to good people. But over the course of a lifetime, every bad decision you make will come back. And we all know this is true. Like it's a kind of what you're talking about is the opposite of the marshmallow test, right? Like the ability to suspend gratification is the most the best predictor of long term success, right? And so if you're able to just wait and not jump on this dopamine hit right now over the course of your life, that will be rewarded.

2:13:05And that's basically the model he's giving people just be good. You know what, you know, and his argument is you do need God. His definition of God is different to most people. But it's fundamentally he's just going around telling people how to live their lives in a positive way. It's how's it different? How's his view of God? It's very difficult to get a kind of to get to it. He doesn't like being asked if he believes in God because his thing is like, well, what you're doing is you're saying like, there's a God in the know him in the sky. Do you believe in that? And it's a way of trivializing his his belief about it.

2:13:40You'd have to ask him directly. But I think, you know, him and I have gone back and forth. He really brought me over to argue with him and try and challenge his ideas from a from just an outsider perspective, really. So we've gone back and forth. I think his idea is that the way he talks about is like God is the opposite of evil. God is God is how you know what is right and what is wrong. And it's something that leads you up instead of leading you down. That's what he thinks of as God. It's like the fundamental question is where does morality come from? And his argument is the evolutionary theory may well be true, but it's insufficient, particularly insufficient to give us meaning and for the West to survive.

2:14:27How do you survive? How does a civilization of people who don't know what they believe in survive in the battle of civilization with people who do know what they believe in? Who have a strong idea? You mentioned, you know, Islam, for example, right? How do you how do you navigate that when you don't know what you believe? When you don't know what you stand for, when you can't even say not believing in free speeches on American. Yeah. How do you how do you if you've got no values of your own? How are you going to navigate the world in that way? Right? And so his argument is very much that we need to we need to be inspired by something divine to be our best selves and to know who we are.

2:15:07That's such a profound thing because when people say to be inspired by the divine, they automatically think of God, but the reality is you can find God in anywhere. Right. And if you to be inspired by the divine, for me, it's to be the thing that I love the most is to be creative, is to write, is to be in that moment where you were writing and you're like, oh, this idea and this idea and this idea and you feel whatever this regard, the old end product, but that moment is to be divine because you were truly at one with what you were, who you were, and what you love and you were passionate about the most.

2:15:47That is a divine. Now for somebody else, it can be another type of thing. Love would be a big part of it. Like when you're in love and you're truly present with a person you love it kind of feels infinite. Yeah. It kind of feels like that moment is it's it can't you can't exactly be measured in time. You can't go, oh, that was 63 seconds where we stay in to each other's eyes and said nothing or whatever that was. Right. And I think part of it's exactly what you're saying is there's these states that we go into in relation to ourselves or to other people that transcend the reality in which we exist.

2:16:20And I think that may well be a part of his, you know, you have to ask him because it's too, if you're complicated, but it's kind of part of his definition, I think, of what God is. Yeah. Because I think deep down, that's what we're looking for really is to be in this state where we're not thinking about ourselves because thinking about yourself, this why was so miserable? Because we're being trained continually going on social media doing this. What am I doing myself, myself, myself? That's with a way to end up perpetually thoroughly miserable and a version of hell. Yeah. But to be in a state where you are creating, where you are doing something that you love, where you are with people that you love, where you with your children, your wife, your partner, whoever it is, and you have that connection, that really is, that's life is the connection.

2:17:10And the opposite of life, for me, is disconnection. To me, there is nothing more tragic than when I sit down at a table and I see a look over at a restaurant, I see a beautiful young couple during the bloom of life. They're youthful. They have, they're in that moment where potential seems limitless and they're both staring down at their phones and they're not looking into each other's eyes. And you want to say to them, what are you doing? You know, and I know we all do it and I'm as guilty of it as anyone, I'm not saying that I'm not. But that moment when you have that connection with love, I think that's what we're all seeking deep down.

2:17:50So what we all crave? There is, you know, and his argument is that, you know, what we saw in the 20th century is as Nietzsche predicted the death of God, causing the breakdown of our belief and therefore World War II and everything that happened there, Mao, the Soviet Union, etc. About the 21st century, though, I think there's, there's maybe something else going on as well, which is we've mentioned the sexual revolution and people having fewer kids. And also people being crammed into cities, the urbanization that we've seen over the last 150 years changes everything. Like I remember reading a book by a guy called, he was a zoologist, a Desmond Morris, and the book was called the Neik, the human zoo hero book called it Neik -Ei, but the human zoo is the one I'm thinking of.

2:18:35And his central argument was when you put animals in the conditions that human beings live in big cities, you get the same pathologies, mental health, violence, you know, atomization, depression, all the same shit happens. And so you've got urbanization, you've got the pill which changes testosterone levels in men. Women are attracted to men with lower testosterone, that would be one driver, another driver would be it's getting in the water supply, you know, making the frog gay point turns out kind of true. And then you put all that together and then you add the death of belief and you've got a very powerful mix to explain what's going on.

2:19:15Yeah, the Alex Jones thing, it's atro scene, right? Is that what it is? Yeah, it's a pesticide, I believe. Okay. Is it an herbicide or a pesticide? So it's not the pill? It's not the contraceptive pill getting into the water supply. That's not what he was saying, it was turning the frog's head. Okay. What he there's a thing called I believe it's called atro scene. And what it does is it will actually turn male frogs into females, actually morph and it makes a bunch of them incapable of breeding. It has like very weird endocrine disruptor effects. So then there's stuff in the water supply that's messing with the hormones and all that kind of stuff.

2:19:52I think birth control pills are in the water supply too. Yeah, for sure. And plastics in the microplastics and then they have it, they have it in even like antidepressants. Right. Some water supplies have trace elements of antidepressants. And cocaine as well. Yeah, well, there's some good news. We have a particularly energetic population. What are you making your pasta with, Mike? So and then you know, the sexual revolution also causes the breakdown of the family far fewer people are growing up in an intact household. You put all that shit together and you get to where we are. Yeah. And it's it's it's so interesting as well.

2:20:30Like you see people talking in the UK and they go, Oh, Britain doesn't have. There's no such thing as British culture and you're going, you just let's just look at what Britain has created in terms of literature, art, philosophy, theatre, music. You're saying there's no culture? And then if you said this to a lot of young people, they simply look at you and not. Well, why are they allowed to say that because it's white people? Yeah, a lot of it. I think a lot of it would be. Yeah, but it's also like some that seems so silly though in terms of like arguing the evidence. I think the confusion that people have is, I think especially after World War II, there was this idea that nationalism, like that was nationalism and patriotism leads to nationalism.

2:21:15Therefore, you shouldn't be patriotic because then you're going to end up just like Hitler. Which seems a little bit tenuous to me. Like there's quite a lot of intermediary steps there. People are allowed to be proud of their country and love their country without being aggressive about it. Yeah, you don't you don't have to be Hitler. You don't have to be fucking obvious. Yeah. Yeah. Fucking obvious, right? Yeah. Well, especially in a country like this that's essentially founded by immigrants. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously there's some people here first, but after that it's immigrants. And so the whole idea is that we all agree.

2:21:45This is supposed to be a place where you have the First Amendment. It's freedom of speech. It's a very important part of what it means to be an American. It's a big part of the whole setup. The whole way it runs is people had to have very controversial ideas and be able to risk their lives and come here for another country to try to set up shop. Try to set up this new way of living. And it's the best way. It's not perfect, but it's the best way currently available. And if you're trying to fight that in any way specifically, if you're trying to fight the very First Amendment, you're un -American.

2:22:17It's really simple. And to your point, if you think about what you're just talking about, which is the history of your country, 1776 and all the rest of it, if you had these people trying to shut down for your expression as they are now, that would never happen. The pamphlets go out.

2:22:36Oh, the fabric of whatever they argument. Yeah, exactly. Shut it down. Yeah. What do you, when you, do you ever take like an overview approach to like society and just stop and think like, where is this all going and why is it so contentious and chaotic? Is this just the only way that human beings are able to progress? Is they have to be constantly at battle? And then they kind of both have to kind of improve their positions as time goes on? Well, look at our societies. I mean, it's kind of weird discussing any of these conflicts around the world because you have to be able to hold two things in your head at the same time.

2:23:10On the one hand, war is horrific. It's fucking horrific. So one of the worst things that humans being do to each other. And on the other hand, it's completely normal. Look at, look around. You go to London. You go, where you go to Trafalgar Square, named after the Battle of Trafalgar. What do you see there? Nelson's column, named after Admiral Nelson. You go to Paris. What do you see? The Ark of Dr. Trump, right? Every society defines itself by the conflicts it's for and one. So it just seems like this isn't, I mean, we're bands of chimps and chimps go to war and so do we. It just seems like, I don't, I don't think we're ever going to get out of that paradigm until where those fat motherfuckers with milkshakes floating around on pods.

2:23:51Maybe that's what we need to do in order to guarantee world peace, but you'd love that wouldn't you? Yeah, I would do, mate. Just we're going to my base instincts, fucking. Yeah. I'll be like, definitely, but it's also we had a guy on the show way back when we started a guy that I grew up with called Dr. Mike Martin and he was a professor of war studies, former military guy, really smart guy. And he was talking about oxytocin and he wrote a book called Why We Fight, which is the 11th evolutionary biological analysis of warfare, why is that human beings fight? And he talked about oxytocin. And oxytocin is the hormone that you you feel it's the tingling hormone when you go to a concert and you know the band comes on and does their big hit, which is massive and anthemic and everybody sings along and you get the little tingle in the back of the neck.

2:24:38And that hormone has two functions. Number one, it creates an in group to say we are the group. This is who we are, right? And that was very, very necessary for evolutionary reasons. For obviously the second part of its function, it creates a suspicion of the outgroup. So you go, it's kind of hardwired into us that we're like, we're this group and we're a little team. And then we don't like them. And then when you kind of see society, people going, I'm liberal. I don't like conservatives and vice versa and all the other nonsense. You go, how much of this is actually conscious and how much of this is actually biologically programmed and is there another factor because I got a bit smug and I go, yeah, I'm not in any portrayable, whatever else.

2:25:26And I get on my little high horse and start lecturing. You go, well, that ain't true either. But also, maybe I don't feel the hormonal, maybe it doesn't have as profound impact on me as it does on somebody else. When the moment they're in the tribe, they feel this overwhelming sense of acceptance and joy. Yeah, but if someone invaded your town, you'd get to that point very quickly. Yeah, that is like, fuck these guys. We're going to the front line. Yeah. We're always you're a fighter. You do that. If someone of your family is under threat, you'd lay down your life for them, right? Yeah. And people think they're engaged in a virtual war.

2:25:59Yeah. Yeah. We really do. Yeah. They think they're on the right side of things. Everybody else is a Nazi. Well, that's the thing to try and get away from both left and right. I think can be guilty. That we just got to try and remember where we are on the same team. What was you take on all this Candace Owen daily wire stuff? Oh, I don't know if I can say it. Really? Well, I think that she she's very charismatic and very talented as a broadcaster. But I thought her branching out beyond the core issues that she initially focused on was a bit of a disaster. You mean like McCrone's wife being a man?

2:26:46That's what I was like. What do you feel like? Right. So I just I think the the big tragedy of this whole full out is like, it was the wrong hire for the daily wire. It was wrong place. But it was great at the time. Well, yeah, it's because if you're charismatic and you're talking about issues on which you are, you know, accurate, you're going to do well. Wasn't like her billboard when they first signed her for the daily wild didn't say like uncancellable. Uncancellable. Was it? I think so. See me find that Jamie. I think that's what it's that. So I look I don't want to like piss disrespect people and anything.

2:27:19I just think it was the wrong partnership. Probably, you know, what did she say? That got her fired. Oh, I don't know. I have no idea. No, I don't know. Someone said that one of the controversies online is that she had wrote Christ is King and put that in someone that said that that was anti -submitted. I think she liked the tweet that was kind of like blood libel uncancellable since 1990. Yeah. Daily wire. Yeah. Whoops. It's the problem that if you if you if you create an organization who slogan is free speech, you're never going to be able to have an editorial policy, which is what they're now trying to have.

2:27:59They're trying to say, well, if you work at this organization, it's like Fox News or CNN or anywhere like as you get bigger, you start to be faced with the fact that like people have different opinions and some people's opinions are going to be outside of the scope of what the people who run and believe. So if you want to be independent, you're going to have to stay independent. By the way, some of those people that have opinions outside the scope of what you're supposed to think are fun. Sure. Yeah. Interesting to listen to. I don't necessarily know if Macron's wife is a man, but the story is hilarious.

2:28:29Sure. Yeah. That there's actual journalists that are working on this. Then she's reporting their work. The real, the true story about her meeting him when he was 15 is crazy enough. Yeah. As a drama teacher, that's crazy enough. Like when did you guys start hooking up? Yeah. So I agree with you about fun. But I also think when you are communicating to millions of people, there is an accuracy issue that has to has to also happen. Yeah. Right. Especially that one. Right. Like that's kind of like kind of a big deal. Well, my my take is if there if that's a man, right? Doesn't that man? You just want to talk about my cross.

2:29:04Why? Sorry, I misunderstood this conversation. They have children. She has children. Look, it's a dumb shit. It's a dumb thing to say. He's not fucking true. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. So so my and so why but if it's not true, why do these journalists think it's true? I have no idea, it's not internet as well, man. Like it's the best. Yeah. I mean, I think the issue like again, it comes down to the fact that you get this huge platform. You do very well, you build up this massive audience and then you start going, well, I'm a public figure. I need to have opinions on whatever is going on. Right.

2:29:46Right. And the problem comes like take Israel, Palestine. I like, I've never spoken about it. Public is to what I think because the reality is I don't fucking know. I don't know. I know I know I've got enough to formulate some kind of opinion. But do I want it challenged? Do I want to go up against an expert? Do I want someone to push back on my ideas? No, because I don't really know. I read about it and I'm just formulating my opinion. But I think the the danger comes when you have that type of audience and that type of platform and you are a political commentator so you feel compelled to have an opinion about everything.

2:30:25You rapidly weighed into things that you know nothing about. And by the way, just to say like Francis and I, we have that attitude to ourselves. Right. So we're like, we, I'm not sure we should be talking about this because we don't know that we know enough. Yeah. Right. So and it's it's a hard thing to navigate because what happens is and you see this with stand -up comics too. It's like you're on stage in front of a hundred people or a thousand people with five thousand people. Oh, suddenly your opinion is like important. Suddenly you know what you're talking about because lots of people listen to and there are some things on which you do know what you're talking about.

2:30:59But there's also shit ton of things that you don't know and you've got a show tomorrow and you've got to have an hour's worth of content. So here's my opinion on Ukraine. Here's my opinion in Israel. Here's my opinion about Macron's wife. Here's my opinion on this and before you know it unconsciously, I suspect you're in over your head and you're saying things that you that you are not qualified to comment on. You're not you're not you haven't done the research. You haven't understood that issue. But here you are giving your opinion. And that's a trap for a lot of people in our space. It really is.

2:31:30It's a trap when you have a mic and you don't know to do what you just wait, formulate these opinions, take in the information, try to figure out what's true and what's not true. Yeah. You know, yeah. And there's a difference between like three guys having a conversation and you go, here's my opinion and I go, here's my opinion and you go, here's my opinion, let's have a chat and find out. And none of us is attached to that opinion being true. Everyone's willing to change their mind. We're not telling the audience, this is the truth. Right. But when you're doing your own show, just you and you're reading an hour's worth of stuff that you've written or someone's helped you write to the camera, that's a very different ballgame.

2:32:06It's a very different conversation. And so I think ultimately the conflict between the daily wine and candaceones is about that, not about anti -semitism, whatever. I just think it was not the right fit and over time those cracks have widened. That's my understanding from speaking to people on various sides of it. I think everyone's better off being independent anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure she's got a giant audience independently now. Sure. I wish I have every success. Yes. You know, agree or disagree on issues. You always want people to do well. Yeah. So, but I just think it was a conflict based on the fact that there's different values, different attitudes, different, you know.

2:32:43Yeah. Did you see that the professor at Columbia today, a Jewish professor who is pro -Israel? You got locked out. And so there's these videos of him standing in front of the crowd and saying they are locking me out. They won't let me teach. They won't let me into the building. My car doesn't work anymore because he's pro -Israel. Right. Joe, there's the funniest thing you got to see. This is 2015 NFL. Have you seen this? No. Jamie, could you go on my Twitter? It's one of my recent tweets. It says, how did they know? This is the funniest thing I have seen in years. This is from 2015, 2015, and it's a sketch about a guy dropping his daughter off a college.

2:33:22Wow. Jamie, are you able to find it? Thank you, my brother. This is 2015. Was that right when Jordan Peterson started becoming famous? I think he was 2016. Yeah. He was 2016. 2015. What was going on in 2015? 2015 was definitely when he was experiencing that stuff in Toronto. What was it? 2015 ever green? Go full screen with this. Oh my god. That's amazing. How fucking good is that 2015? Where was that sketch on? SNL. SNL. I said down in a file before SNL. That wasn't that. That was on SNL. That was one of the best things SNL's ever done. Yeah. That's how good it is. That's amazing. That bit when he goes death to America.

2:34:02I was like, yeah, that's what they're saying. Oh my god. That's what they're saying on college campuses. Yeah. They're saying that and this pro -Israeli guy got kicked off. You just you actually stop at times and go, what is actually happening? What is actually happening? Well, we've all been talking about him. How many years have been talking about press dynamics inevitably creates the shit. Yeah. It's inevitable. Yeah. It's inevitable. It's also being influenced by foreign countries. Yeah. Oh yeah. They will always do that. Yeah. They will always do the amazing job with universities. But we have to we have to weaken our own immune system for them to be able to be successful.

2:34:40Yeah. Yeah. True. And we've also got to offer our kids. I don't think enough people make this point. There's lots of people pointing the fingers, going kids are stupid, kids are this kids are this kids are whatever yet you're going to raise kids a certain way. They're going to turn out a certain way. How have you raised them? Is it really the kids full? Or actually is a reason you're pointing at them and mocking them and deriding them because you know you've fucked up. Yeah. And it's the easy thing to do to point at the kids when the fact that that actually they've been raised wrong. Yeah. On the other hand and when you become a maybe see this differently as well is you only have a certain amount of influence in a society where you send your kids to school.

2:35:22You send them to college. That's what they're taught the things that they're taught. They naturally will want to rebel against their parents. It's what all kids want to do. And if they're fed this very simplistic narrative about you know life is about there's some people who control everything and they're oppressing everyone and there's lots of people who are oppressed and the way you know who's oppressing who's by who's successful right. So what you've built in then is if you're successful you're a bad guy and if you're struggling you're a good guy and then you look at all the different ethnic groups and suddenly you know Asian Americans, Jews and whatever these groups that are quite and quite overperformed they're overrepresented.

2:35:58Once you create the idea that some people are overrepresented and some people are underrepresented you inevitably come to this point. Inevitably. People will inevitably start hating successful minorities and they will stop and they will look at everyone else as the oppressed underdog. I mean Thomas Sous late his book Social Justice Fileses he talks about how every single brewery major brewery in the world was founded by Germans including Tingtao the Chinese brewery. Wow. Because those people have perfected the art of brewing over hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years and every group is going to have its own advantages and disadvantages.

2:36:34Some people are better at hockey, some people are very abasquable. Some people are better at making money by being lawyers, some people are better making money by being podcasters or something else right. You can't just look at people as members of groups and go we know everything about this group if this group is doing well in society that means there are oppressors but that's the position we've come to and it's because of indoctrination and education. Yeah yeah absolutely. Absolutely. It's indoctrination education guided by you know funded and supported by foreign powers. Yeah and and we've allowed it to happen.

2:37:03Yeah we've allowed it to happen. Oh great. And I completely agree and you know that's why I have real empathy for a lot of these kids. I'm like you've just been fed this grant since you since the moment you had the education system and then you come out at the age of 18 19 and you're spouting this nonsense yeah but what do we tell our kids what I used to work in a school what did we say when we're when I was a teacher listen to your teacher. Don't question don't challenge particularly with the younger ones. You do what your teacher tells you to do. If your teacher tells you to do this in maths you do this in maths.

2:37:37Not only that it's a person in a position of authority that has control over an entire group of people which we really know how that dynamic goes with cults and with presidents with everything else and then you have this group of people that are filled with anxiety that want to make it in life and if there's a very clear path that you have to follow they're just going to be influenced to follow it. It's it's real simple to do to young people you take them away from their parents their parents probably overbearing they finally get to be themselves and free pals time and then they just from the river to the sea they're just out there in the streets.

2:38:09And it's absolutely true and if you look at I don't know in America but in the UK a teacher is described as being in low -co -parentous which means in the role of the parent. So that is your role when you're a teacher in the UK it's in the role of the parent that's your responsibility to look after these kids teach them but also there's a pastoral aspect to it. So if you're in the role of the parent and you have these dangerous ideologies. And you might not even have any kids. Then you have blue hair and a bunch of like lips of tiktok I mean she's posting this stuff every day. Yeah and you have 18 different pronouns you like to use.

2:38:48Yeah and you're one of these awful teachers where you're like I want the kids to be my friend you're why do you want to be friends with a nine -year -old? Did you ever see any footage from the stuff we did at the protest? I went along to a few protests and talked to people have you seen anything? No, no. We have like a five -minute clip which protests. So in London I went along to March against 97. I went along to pro -pilotine protests to of them and an extinction rebellion protest that was fucking incredible. What is extinction rebellion? Accenture rebellion is a group that's fairly small in this country but very big in the UK and they basically want us to stop using oil and gas and producing energy through fossil fuels.

2:39:32So the folks that glue themselves to the wall? Yeah, those are the guys. Yeah but interesting we have Jamie we have a couple of minutes clip if you're interested Joe from me and I was very journalistic about it. I didn't go in to try and misrepresent anybody. I just talked to people. That's all I did and I'd ask them you know you've got this placard with this three -pilostano from the River to the Sea. What does that mean? Right and we didn't edit it. We didn't massage it. We showed you every over the course of the 30 -minute video. We showed you every single person we spoke to pretty much. Right and it's just fascinating.

2:40:06You talk about like these kids don't know anything like you have no idea how much they don't know anything and they're well -intentioned people they're not bad people. They're there because they've seen kids being blown up on their timeline and that's understandable you'd be freaked out by that if you're a human being you'd be freaked out by that. But Jamie if you're able to play a minute or two I think you'd find it interesting Joe. Okay where's that? It's on YouTube but it'll be one of our most recent YouTube clips. Oh yeah. Here we go.

2:40:41So I just noticed the signs you've got from the River to the Sea Pilostano will be free. What does that mean? Well it's quite self -intentionally sweet. Well it's a little bit more complicated than that isn't it because I guess what I mean is how would that come about? What would happen to the Israeli's attention? I don't know. I'm trying to think about a word it. Isn't it just a self -expansion is the area of land? It's Palestine's land. Yeah. So when you say Palestine which do you mean? Yeah the guards are stripped. The guards are stripped. The west bank. That's it. I don't know. Is that is that it's our own?

2:41:23I'm getting confused. I thought it's self -explanatory. What about you? There are you. It's a bullshit question. Why? Well tell me why is it? I'm not fucking getting involved in this but it's so like in flammatory. No it's yeah it's just really inflammatory to. Yeah it's inflammatory. What's that? I'm not getting involved. Okay. All right. I was just asking what a man. Oh. Did you agree with the sign? Yeah of course. What does it mean to you? The Palestinians to be free you know. It says Palestine so I was asking them which bit of the area. Yeah the people that are being oppressed for them to be free.

2:42:02You know, Gaza, West Bank, then people to be free. Yeah. Gaza and West Bank. Yeah all Palestinians in general you know because we know that what's going on. All of them are being oppressed so for them to be free. You know it's nothing nothing you know it's clear as day you know. Yeah yeah. I was just asking them which bit of the land they mean because some people mean all of the land including the bit where Israel is now and that's why there's some debate about you know what I mean. The main message is Palestinians that are being oppressed for them to be free you know and for everyone to live in harmony regardless of your religion or where it is because historically speaking the we say Muslims, Jews, Christians have been living there for centuries you know living in good peace but when early in recent times all of this issue has been started going on you know but I think it's how long how long would you say this issue has been going on.

2:42:51As far as I know obviously I'm not as educated on this topic for example with other people but for roughly around 75 years since I think the mandate from 45 just before after World War I think is when the issues you know when the British came and started cutting up lands and taking the lands of the Palestinians I think that's when the issue started you know. Well yeah before that you had the Ottoman Empire there which had very strong control over the area yeah that makes sense. Any attack on civilians is not justified you know regardless of whatever happened you know but I think the issue really what is the origin of this problem you know history has not started October 7 you know we have to see the real origin of this was as I said 75 years ago obviously I'm not as educated on this topic but for because what I see now is this whole issue is being portrayed as if civilization and history started from October 7 and onwards but no that's not the real that's only a spec the whole issue is obviously as we said from you know 70 80 years ago and I think that contributes to what is going on today from from both sides you know from the Palestinian side as well as the Israeli side.

2:44:03All right so we are now skip forward a few seconds just a few seconds we don't need me talking just there's one more bit here we go. This alternative to soon I can start for a socialist interferer what's a socialist interferer. If I'm being honest with you I just got this at the stand over there okay I don't actually know the definition of the word it's a fighter okay but I mean you any of you know the definition of the word it's a fighter. Stop bombing guys that makes sense what about that one yeah and what does that mean? Well it means to stop the Israeli occupation of policy. From which river to which sea from from from from the Jordan to the Mediterranean to yeah so does that mean that all of Israel should be what is now Israel should be Palestine in your opinion.

2:44:57No I personally don't think that I think there's I mean it this I'm definitely not the person to talk to about this but I know that there's multiple strategies that people have come up with like a two -state solution or one -state solution. I think ideally I would like to see one multi -faith state that is neither Israel nor Palestine.

2:45:18Strong opinions to be out there marching. Yeah I'm glad. I've done a lot of research. Can you imagine marching with a sign that you don't know what it means? Well also there being Canada signs which is wild too so that's organized right and then they also know that people are very gullible and and people like to be out in protests. Yeah and then and like I said they're not bad people. No look at this. They're decent people. They're not informed. They're not informed at all and yet they're protesting which is interesting. So most of the people I spoke to were somewhere along that. So pretty decent people and not hateful most of them there is a minority but most of them they're not hateful they're not bad people but what they are is very ill -informed and the other thing is I'm starting to kind of see the distinction.

2:46:02There are some people who have an activist mindset and there are some people who have a pragmatist mindset and that's the activist mindset which is if we complain enough if we make enough noise if we draw enough attention then someone else will fix things. The pragmatist mindset is like how do we move forward from here? And that's the question I was putting to them is like you say we need from the river to the sea. That you know that means there shouldn't be any Israel right because that's what that means. From the river Jordan to the Mediterranean that means there would be no Israel and then when you say to them well is that is that what you're asking for?

2:46:36No I want everyone to live in peace from harmony. Well have you been to the fucking Middle East? Good luck with that right. So these things are very very complicated very complicated and that's why they haven't been resolved for 75 years. So the way to to try and resolve them is to think about how do we move forward. We can get stuck in 75 years of history. That's not going to take you anyway. You think bickering about what happened in 1945 is going to solve anything? Is that what you think? 1960 that's going to solve something? No man. The way forward is to find a way for both sides to live ideally separately from each other and be for economic growth and development to be happening there and for security to be available to the Palestinians and to the Israelis.

2:47:24I'm not saying that from any deep place of expertise it's just like the obvious thing. People don't fight when they're happy and comfortable and safe. How you get there is very very complicated discussion but it's not protesting with a sign you don't understand. Well that's just indicative of just human nature right? People want to be on the virtuous side, they want to be on the right side of the protest and obviously you say something like free Palestine I was going to argue with that. Of course everyone should be free. Free Palestine. Yeah definitely. And so you're out there with a sign. I'm doing the right thing and it's that simple and it's hard to really pay attention.

2:47:58It's hard to really formulate it especially that one. That's a complicated one. Super complicated and also as well it's not just the complicativeness of it. It's the fact that the Middle East is so emotionally charged. It's so emotionally charged. It's so emotionally charged. To the point that it makes it impossible to have a rational discussion about it without people going, oh you've been like this, you've been like this, everybody's invested in it and you go, there's a very famous story during Northern Ireland when they had the peace talks in Northern Ireland where I think it was Clinton came in and sat down with both sides and these were people who had been at war.

2:48:42I mean Northern Ireland was in a state of civil war. I call it the troubles but that's essential. Yeah, it was essentially what it was. And Clinton went, you know what, before we get started, before you say anything, can we agree it's Wednesday? They're like, yeah, and they were like, can we agree it's 1130? Yeah. And can we agree that I'm drinking a cup of black coffee? They were like, yeah, okay, so we start from a point of agreement with that. Now let's see if we can navigate the rest and try and find a place where we can find some common ground. And I think the challenges that we're faced in right now, we can't even agree what words mean.

2:49:30And if we can't even agree what words mean, how are we going to agree on something as difficult to solve as the Middle East and find a solution that not everybody is happy with that everybody's prepared to accept. Because the reality is when you strike any deal, you need there needs to be a large dollar per pragmatism involved where you have to accept, I'm not going to get everything I want. And I've got to accept what I am happy with what I can accept at that moment. And if you're not prepared to do that, and if you can't even agree on what words mean, and if you're in this kind of oppressor, oppress mindset, how are you going to come to any kind of agreement or solution?

2:50:20The way we have the conversation about it is not intended to find a solution. People aren't looking for a solution. People are looking to say, you know, what's happening is horrible. And it is horrible. I mean, like this is the thing with social media is, you know, you spend two minutes on your phone looking at what's going on and you're like, fuck, you know, someone's got to do something. Yeah, the ocean's boiling. But doing stuff is hard. Talking about shit is easy, right? Yeah, gluing yourself to the wall of the museum is easy. That's right. And so, yeah, and with this conflict, it's the same.

2:50:53I mean, I listened to Jared Kushner on Lexus podcast and I thought he was very good about talking about a positive way forward. Probably why he was able to pull off the Abraham Accords, which was a big step in that region. Very, very smart guy. Very smart guy. He's very nice too. Very friendly. Yeah. You see him on the media depictions of him during the Trump administration. It was like, oh, it's a Damian from the Omen. That's what it is. So, he's evil. I've seen it. Yeah. You've seen that? No, no. Compare him to Damian. Like, there's a photo of him right next to Damian from the Omen. Do you know the movie?

2:51:26No, no, I haven't seen it. It's The Devil's Baby. Oh, right. Yeah. The lady gets pregnant by the devil. Right. And Damian's The Devil's Baby. Damian's a very bad boy. And Damian looks exactly like you. Really? Yeah. That's a few like, it's David. I was, you find that, David? I was very impressed with what he had to say. It's a brilliant guy. Yeah. Yeah. And you can see why he was, and his whole thing is like, what's the positive vision for the future? How do we get everybody what they need to stop being angry and fighting and killing each other? Yeah. But you can have as many fucking protest marches as you want.

2:52:00It's not going to change anything. Yeah. And we saw that with a rock. I protested against the one in rock. I was on the street, but it just, it does add to the confusion that young people are experiencing. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So similar. There's photos of, there's like a side by side of him and Damian. There it is. There it is. The wood there. Well, there's one down there. That one. The one to the left that right there. Look at that. Have you come on, son? I mean, you didn't know him. You could, that's why it's so insidious with the media is capable of doing. Oh man. So creepy that they do that. And that they think that almost it's their obligation to do that.

2:52:42Right. You know, well, this is what I was saying about disagreeing with people like I've heard from every single person that knows Tucker that he's a great guy. I still disagree with him on some things, but doesn't mean he's not, doesn't mean he's not a great guy. Right. Yeah. And but what the media conversation is always about this person has the wrong opinion, therefore he's bad or she's bad. Yeah. And that's done. Someone can be really wrong and still be a really good person who's trying their best and they may learn from their mistakes over time if they're doing things wrong. Agreed. Agreed.

2:53:10You know, yeah, man. So it's a crazy world, but we're here. Yeah. We're having a conversation. Yeah. Yeah, we're having fun. I mean, we're very fortunate. We're very fortunate that this has come along during this time. But it's also part of the cause of this time. Yes. You know, but the fact that there is this newfound avenue to be able to express things and just really just talk about whatever the fuck you want and not be confined by some organization that's telling you what to talk about what you can't talk about and censoring you if you disagree firing you. That's that's that's and that's what we need.

2:53:48We need more conversation. And we need to start seeing people not as avatars who need to be destroyed, but actually as somebody else over the other side who has their own way of looking at things has arrived at this point. Now you may think it's wrong. You may think it's stupid. You may think all of these things, but it's still a human being. They've still got this point and sit them down and go why? Why is it? Because maybe here's the thing. Maybe by reaching your hand out, you might be able not only to understand them a little bit better. You might actually be able to understand yourself a little bit better.

2:54:27And by seeing the blind spots in them, you go, what about my blind spots? Yeah. What about the thing where I have I don't actually have an unconscious bias. I actually have a bias because of the way I was raised, because of the way I was brought up, because of what I seen growing up. And maybe actually, even though they might be wrong about this thing, I kind of get why they're saying this. And not only that, they might have a point about something else that I haven't thought about. And this is why the ethos of self improvement is so important. 100%. And why it also gets attached to right wing ideology.

2:55:05Because you're taking responsibility, right? And for some reason, some people want to make the right the only place that's about personal responsibility. I don't think that's necessary. It's crazy. You can exercise and be left wing right wing. Of course. You can take care of your family and be left wing right wing. And people have always done that. And I think that the people that aren't interested in that both on left wing and the right wing have the most problematic views. The people that have no interest in self improvement both on the right and on the left. They're the people that are the biggest problems.

2:55:37Yeah. Yeah. It's a people, the worst people are the people who are utterly entrenched in their views. And they think to themselves, you know what? I've got everything right. I don't need to change. Why do I need to improve? Why do I need to? Why do I need to change the way I think? Because I am right. Yeah. Well, great. So what you've actually done is you've actually stunted your own growth emotionally, physically spiritually. Well, the good thing is I think that becomes evident over time. I think those people become exposed and it becomes very clear what they're doing over time. I think we're going through that right now.

2:56:15Yeah. And I think the economics of podcasting in new media is going to is going to make more daily wire style organizations. I think it's inevitable. People are going to come together under one umbrella or in partnership or somehow because it's like no one wants to give, no one wants to subscribe to their favorite 50 sub stacks. You know, no one wants to listen to their favorite give five dollars a month to their favorite 30 podcasts. It's just not going to happen. You're going to want to come to one place where you've got, you know, Barry's doing it with the free press, for example. She's bringing people together under her umbrella.

2:56:48That's a very good point because if you have like 10 podcasts you like and it's 10 bucks a month. Okay. Now it's getting a little pricey. And the admin alone is going to kill you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's getting pricey. And then it's also it's like you're going to lose out on a lot of people that are interested in your stuff if you have to pay for it. But if you can get a bunch of really good ones altogether. Right. Then you got an organization. And before you know it, new media will become old media. You'll have the same corruption. They will have the same power structures. High rocky and power is prone to corruption as we know from our good friend.

2:57:18That's why I believe in organic networks. Yeah. So what I try to do with my friends with comedians, I instill this notion of we are we are on a network. It's an organic network. We don't have contracts with each other. But we're all friends. And we all support each other. So we help each other. So our reach is all grown together. It's all tied in together. You know, if you listen to your mom's house, you probably listen to joy deas, you probably listen to me. There's like a whole group of us. And you might like dunking more or you might like, are we more whatever it is. But there's there's a whole group of people that are connected that are essentially on the equivalent of the podcast version of NBC.

2:57:55You know, that transition was so good for us, but also so hard because coming from the UK comedy circuit, which is where we started. It's the exact opposite of that. It was in America too. Every man for himself. It was like that in the bucket. And then when we started coming over here, it was like a whole new world was open to us. And now we are bringing that back to the UK. We're helping people out. We are like, oh, here's a talented new writer. Let's give her an opportunity. Here's a talented new guy doing YouTube. Let's bring him in and give him a boost. And we are kind of using that to try and create a community of people who are working together, not necessarily towards the same goal, but just just like people who are looking out for each other.

2:58:33Yes. And that's such a powerful transformation of the way you view the world because suddenly everyone's your friend. Yeah. And that's one of the best things that came out of the whole internet revolution for comics is that we realized that we are not in competition, but that we can benefit from all the things that benefit you from being in competition with someone. You can be inspired. You can be forced to work harder and really raise your levels. But more importantly, we're in collaboration and that we're a tribe and that we all benefit from each other being around. And it's beautiful when your friends do well.

2:59:09And that that philosophy was possible because the internet, because before that, we were all competing for the same amount of jobs on television and what late night talk shows, whatever it was. And once that went away, then comedians became an asset because like if I could get Tom Seaguro on my podcast, we're going to have a lot of fun. And then his podcast will grow and my podcast will grow and everybody will be happy. And that helped us a lot. But it's also this mentality that we have at the comedy store that was different. It's like we were a tribe and we were supportive of each other even before the podcast thing.

2:59:41Where did that come from? Was it you that kind of let that or was that someone else because it always comes from like someone being the inspiration, doesn't it? It was probably me because it came from martial arts because that's that's how I think about martial arts. You have to have training partners. You don't get good by yourself. You have to have training partners. Like the only way you get good at jiu -jitsu, you have to do you have to roll with other people that are really good. You have to do it. You have to train together. You have to realize high levels, the high levels around you. And if you have a gym that has a specifically, especially rather high level of jiu -jitsu, you're going to get a lot of high level people that come out of that gym.

3:00:13And you'll see the difference when they go to a lower level gym. They're just way better. Just like you see a comic that works at the seller in New York, they go somewhere else. Like that's a high level comic. They're in a high pressure, high talent situation. And it just transferred over to comedy. I was like, this is the best way to do it. I know it seems counterprone. You think like we're all fuck him, I'm the man, get rid of that. Get rid of that. Everybody can be good together. And when someone's good, it actually feels good to tell people that person's good and blow them up and help them.

3:00:49If you can help get some shine on, get some light on someone who's really talented. It's good for the art form, which is the whole reason why we got into it in the first place. And the more people that do it, the higher the level is going to get. You're going to get more competition, more creativity, more influence, more excitement, more inspiration. It's good for everybody. And it's good for you as well. Because when you have that mindset of, no, this is my thing. You're not going to touch my thing. You know, it's a gross mindset. It's a gross mindset. And what gross mindsets do is they corrupt the individual.

3:01:24And this is what people don't talk about enough. If you have got a terrible mindset, okay, it's bad for everybody around you. And of course, that's important. But the person is worse for it's you. It's cancerous. So if you have this mindset of, I'm not going to help anyone because what about me? You know what? You're going to end up on your own and you're going to end up being deeply, deeply miserable. Be turn resentful here, here. Yeah. You know, I asked Jordan about this because his whole crew is like, it's, it's everyone works together. It's a team game. We're all pulling in the same direction.

3:01:57And I said to him, how did you like, and he goes, I realized very early on, the right amount of drama to have on a tour is zero. Zero drama. Yeah. If you're a drama guy, you don't, you're not going to work here. Yeah. Well, you know, and it's not an angry thing. It's a practical thing. We're all working towards the same thing. I'm trying to make you better. You're trying to make me better. I mean, the guy literally invited someone over from another country to argue with him on stage in front of his own audience. And it works. Yeah. And that's what high quality leadership looks like. And what you were talking about, what Jordan's talking about, it's, and coming here, man, and talking to people like you and others, it's been just revolutionary for us in the way we think about everything.

3:02:39That's beautiful. That's, that mindset is everything. Yeah. It is. And it's good for you, like you said, it's good for you too. Yeah. It's good for everybody. It's good for me. It's, it's important for me. When people, I got benefit when people do well, it really, it really does. It helps me. Yeah. Because it challenges you. And that's what I love about the Austin comedy scene is that when you come here, people are so much more open. You know, you don't get that in a lot of other comedy scenes where people are, you know, they, you know, people, it's, you know, people do help each other, of course, they do.

3:03:11But there's still this crabs in a bucket mentality. Whereas you come here and people are just far more open. They go, come and do 10 minutes at my club. Come here. Oh, you're great. Come and do this. Come and do that. That collaborative process is how everybody wins. Yeah. It's how everybody gets better. It's how we all become better at what we want to do. Because the reality is, if you're denying someone the chance for them to flower and flourish, you're denying something of yourself as well. Indeed. Because later on, that person will be like, that guy helped me. Yeah. You know, hey, why don't you come and do this thing?

3:03:48You know, do you remember you did this for me? Well, what? And then bam. And then you've both won. And then you've both created things, something. Yeah. And it's just a positivity, which is why I love coming here. I love coming here because there's a positivity here that there's a can -do attitude of we can go out and we can do this. And we're going to work together and we're going to collaborate and we're going to change things and we're going to improve. I come here and I just feel so much more creatively energized. I, I, all of these past like 10 days have been in Austin. Most of the time, apart from going out and meeting people, I just spend all my day writing.

3:04:23I spent all my day writing because I'm going, oh, I've got all these gigs that I can test it out on and I feel energized and I feel creative. And I know that I can do this. And yet, I know if I fail, like I did it, you know, one particular gig for Hans Kimberless and I did too much new, it didn't go well. I came out going, oh, I know that I'm not going to get limited because I didn't do well at that gig. But I came away knowing that I've got so much to improve and I know how to improve it. And then I went and did another gig and it was great. Yeah, you got to be able to take chances. That's, it's a very important thing and people have to know what, what you're capable of.

3:05:00And when you're starting off with new stuff or you're trying new stuff out, some of it goes terrible. It's just part of the process and everyone here knows that they get it. I mean, we had the benefit of not being attached to Hollywood too. That was one of the best things. Like New York is not really attached to Hollywood either, but there's still like the Hollywood adjacent, you know, you can get gigs and there's obviously, you know, there's talk shows that are there still. Letterman was always there. But with California, you're just so infected by the Hollywood bullshit. And here it's none. It's non -existent.

3:05:34So you get to exist in a purely creative environment in that the comedians are just trying to be better at comedy. That's it. This thing, not just try to audition for a television show, trying to be better at comedy. Bro, when I went to a lay for the first time, I spent three days there and I told you I'm not a religious person after three days, I got on the plane and I was like, these people need God. So I don't. Yeah. Fuck me. Gentlemen, death to America. Not really. All right, appreciate you guys very much. Trigonometry available everywhere. And then you have the there's a sub stack. So how does it work?

3:06:10The sub stacks are just constant in kissing sub stack had to read the shit. All right. And do you guys have some of your episodes are available behind a subscription walls? So what we do is we do usually about 20 minutes to half an hour bonus content with questions from our audience for the guests and that goes behind the paywall. Oh, that's cool. And there's some pretty cool stuff there. That's a good way to do it. Questions from the audience. Yes, that's smart. Oh, yeah. We tell people who's coming on in advance and then they send in a bunch of questions. We're like, what's most upvoted? What's the most interesting?

3:06:40What's the funniest? And we do that. And it goes on our locals is 20, 30 minutes extra content for our guest. Yeah. Beautiful. It's pretty cool. And the interesting thing is you look at the questions, you go, damn, some of them are better than mine. Yeah. Well, got a crowdsource. Yeah. You do. Thank you, gentlemen. Really appreciate you. It was a lot of fun. Thank you.