#2153 - Dave Smith

26:33And then, at the end of her show, she has this segment called Who Won the Week? And all the guests on the panel get to pick their own like what happened this week. And her choice, not one of the people on the panel. Her choice of who won the week was this guy in Union Square who made a naked statue of Donald Trump with a micro penis. And was just like literally like just making a thing like, aha, he's got a little dick. And after literally her last segment was on the sexist coverage of Hillary Clinton. And then her next pick for Who Won the Week was a guy mocking Trump for having a micro penis.

27:12But he just made up and made a statue of. And she did not even like seem to see the contradiction in any of that. Like you just said this. It's beautiful. It's fun. It's fun. It's fun to watch. I'm glad those people exist. They're fun. They're fun to watch because they're so ridiculous. And they're so fake. And it comes off. It's obvious that they're not. They're not really engaged. They're not really talking about it like a human. They're just propagandists. And that's the only way you can do that job. If you want to do that job, you have to be a propagandist. Or you have to be some sort of straight face Jake Tapper, dude, who just kind of like straight faces everything.

27:50But if you want, you know, you want to have the joy read show. Yeah. You got to go. You got to go for it. You got to say joy read things. What was that one? She got in some bizarre argument with some woman recently. I think it was a transgender issue. Was that what it was, Jamie? Where it was like, it went viral. Because like, I forget what the debate was about. But I remember it being just a preposterous argument. The way she was looking at it. Yeah. She's pretty out there. I'm not sure what segment you're referring to. But she's got a whole lot. But it's a whole lot of great hits. It's not. Yeah.

28:26It's like you have to be on that network. Like you can't exist in a podcast world. Yeah. What is it? What is it? I don't think there's something newer than that. Observed argument probably against vote on race. No, that's not it. No. I should have saved it. I probably did save it somewhere on my phone. I could find it. But it's just these. It was, I believe it was some sort of this episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Tax season is already stressful. You shouldn't have to worry about identity theft on top of everything else. And trust me, it's a big worry. Especially since during tax season, your sensitive info does a lot of traveling to places you can't control.

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29:49Don't let identity thieves take you for a ride. Get LifeLock protection for tax season and beyond. Join now and save up to 40 % your first year. Call 1 -800 -LIFLOCK and use the promo code JRE or go to lifelock .com slash JRE for 40 % off. Terms apply. A trans issue if I'm correct. But it's just these fucking people on these shows are trapped. You're trapped. You're trapped in this world of five minutes. You're trapped in this world of commercials. You're trapped in this world of networks and executives. You're trapped. If you want to make it, you've got to be full of shit. Yeah. You've got to be full of shit.

30:32And it's just like you point this out all the time. But it's just not enough time to have a real conversation on any of these shows. Dude, I did a debate for a zero hedge a couple months ago on the Israel Gaza conflict. And it was a two on two debate. And it was two hours long. And the only thing I could think at the end of it was like that just wasn't nearly enough time. It's like two hours. And now you're crazy. You get like a half hour, you know, roughly not. I don't know exactly if we all spoke even time. But roughly a half hour each. That's not nearly enough to go through like the history of all this shit.

31:10And what's going on now and to really make your points. And that's a two hour debate. They'll do that same segment on the news in 10 minutes, five minutes. It's really good. This is insane. It's insane. You're just trying to hit whatever the best point you can hit is. And in the same way that Twitter, I mean, now you could like post longer stuff. You know a Twitter, but just because it's short, it just like pushes you into like saying just whatever just can destroy that guy in one sentence. It's like it pushes you into that. It's just not. It's headlines. Yeah. That's all you can do. And when you're dealing with something like this, just the depth of it all is just so perplexing.

31:44You know, when you just lay out like when Mike Baker's on it and he lays out the history of like Palestine and Israel and the conflict and Egypt and this and that and Hamas and Hezbollah. And he lays it all, you're like, Jesus Christ. There's so many layers to this fucking cake. Yeah. And most people are just getting free Palestine from the river to the sea. Yeah. You know, you're just getting these like slogans that you yell out and you're seeing who knows how much of what you're seeing is even real today. Well, you mean like with the with the footage, the footage of things, even footage of like people fake things now and the fake things specifically for propaganda.

32:31And then they hide things. One of the most terrifying videos I saw recently was one of these really hostages. She was in the back of a Jeep and they drag her out by her hair and she's got blood all over her and they they had hacked her heels to make sure she couldn't run. Bro, it's so terrifying. It's so and they're all screaming. God is great. God allow walk bar. Yeah, dude. I know I think there's a thing. I don't know if I could word this exactly right, but I think there's for some reason I think comedians have this thing that they're kind of able to go to these places. Do you remember? You remember when you had Bill Burr on your show and you played this video.

33:10I don't know why I just loved this moment so much, but you played this video of a dude like ripping something out of a little girl's hand. And it was something like the guy like she had a piece of paper or something and he wanted he was way aggressive. I think it was a protest. Yeah, it was like a grown man going up to like a little girl and ripping it out. And you like immediately you were like, oh man, that'd be real bad if that was my kid. Like I'd be in jail the next day or that. And then Burr was like, uh, he was like, oh, you went to a dark place there and you were like, yeah, I do that a lot.

33:37And he was like, I do that all the time. It was just something about like comedians for whatever reason do that. Well, also parents. Yeah, well that particularly, but I just, it's just very easy for me. I don't know why this always just came very natural to me. Whereas I think some people have so much trouble with this. But it's very easy for me to do this on both sides of this conflict to just go, okay, like I got two little kids. I could just just start to imagine if somebody did something in one of my little kids and I wasn't able to protect them. And what I'd be willing to do, like how dark a place I could go to.

34:08And it's just like immediately very easy to me to see how anyone in Israel after October 7th would support fucking flatten Gaza. And how anyone in Palestine, after what's going on the last 50 years there, would be like, yeah, I'll sign up for Hamas. I'll support these guys who are going to do this shit. No, I do think, and this is the point that, for sure, which is the most scary thing about the conflict. Sure. Well, that's, and that's why it's gotten to such a bad point, right? Yeah. Because like this is the cycle that keeps going. But I do think, and this is what Darrell Cooper, who like I brought him up last time I was on.

34:43He has that fantastic series called a fear and loathing in the New Jerusalem. And he's just totally brilliant. I love that guy. But he said, and I think this is right, is that he's like, okay, so you can totally see where if you're on either side there, you'd just be like, I don't care. I see red. I want to kill as many of the other side as I can. But for us as Americans who are not in that situation, it's kind of incumbent on us to be like, okay, let's try to kind of have a sober analysis of this. And not do what so many people seem to do, which is like, almost try to just like agon the other side and cheer on their side.

35:20And then this total like demonization of either all of the Palestinians, like they're all just human garbage, or all Jews are whatever evil or something like this. And America who are Jewish or complicit. There's somehow another response, which is like totally ridiculous. Jerry Seinfeld. They're hackling at his shows. No, this is like some organized protest. It came to his show. And they were screaming out in the middle of his show. It's also just like guys, like take it. Look, like I understand one in a protest this this war. I got my issues with the the young college leftists who are protesting it.

35:53They're not my people exactly. But like, you know, there's an Israeli embassy here. There's a Congress. There's like take it at least to the halls of power. Like I don't think Jerry's not ruining, you know, like other people's ability to enjoy Seinfeld's stand -up show is really going to solve the issue. Yeah, because they're not really thinking well. Now, most of these people that do this, they come from wealthy families. They're young, really idealistic kids, and they glue themselves to paintings. And they throw fucking soup at masterpieces. Did you see that one stop oil now person sliced up this fucking painting from the 1800s?

36:31Some priceless painting. Just pulled out a razor knife and just started slashing this thing up. Isn't it weird if sometimes it feels like they're like each side's foot soldiers are working for the other side? You know what I mean? Like when you do stuff like that, you're almost like I just want to drill for more oil now. Well, this is the problem with teams, man. There's a problem with teams if you have a team that anybody can join. Like if the Republicans are basically like the Christians, they'll take anybody. You have anybody. You know, if you want to be a Jew, you got to go to work. Okay, you got to learn a bunch of shit.

37:03My uncle converted. It's a lot of work. They make your work. It's a lot of work. You got to fucking learn some stuff. I remember I was doing this episode of Joe Rogan questions to everything where I was talking to religious people. A bunch of different religious sects and religious scholars. And I was talking to this one guy who was a rabbi and there was a woman there that was converting to Judaism. And I got to ask her questions about like how she's doing it and like how hard it is. It's fucking, it's like getting your pilot's license or something. It's a lot of fucking shit you got to remember.

37:35It's like the way citizenship is. We're like when you're born Jewish, like I am, or born in American like I am. And you're like, oh man, I couldn't have passed that test. It's a good thing I was born into this shit. It's our fucking test. They really, they make your work. Well, I think the Jewish went harder than the American one. Yeah, probably. But the American one. Well, these days you could just walk in. But if you don't walk in your fucked. If you don't walk in, then if that you fly in from Europe, they're like, uh -uh. You flew first class. We're just talking to make it really hard for you to become a citizen.

38:02Dude, which is, by the way, it sums up everything about modern day America. Anarcho tyranny. Yeah. It's just like it's like you live, you have the worst of anarchism and tyranny. All in one, where if you follow the rules, you get totally fucked. And if you just ignore the rules, you get rewarded. The worst incentives. And everybody wants to be on a team. So if you have a team that's open to anybody, you're going to get the dumbest fucking people that are super enthusiastic about that team. Yeah. And they're going to ruin everything. And they do whatever they do it on the right and they do it on the left.

38:38That's why I say my message is always reject the teams and come be a libertarian and lose with me. Just keep losing. Come and just enjoy losing. There's something freeing about knowing you're not going to win. They're the most reasonable people I talk to politically. Yeah. But it's also like, but it's also the system is so deep like you again. Well, that's the real question. I mean, there's almost like two figuring out what the solution is is almost the easy part. And then actually figuring out how to implement it. They have to land. They have to literally have to land. Maybe you're enough. Because we're like on our way to a kingship.

39:16We're on our way on our way. Yeah, I just has to be like, listen, we read all of the books in human history. And we figured this out pretty quickly. There might be the thing that saves us and ruins us at the same time. It's President AI. President AI. President AI will be logical. And if it's on the blockchain, we'll know exactly if President AI is being influenced by money. But wouldn't it be great if AI just turns out to be as human as us and is just corrupted? And they're like, President AI got a blowjob in the over office. President AI. The power went to his head. He just started making AI horrors.

39:47He's got to give a press conference. He's like, I don't know what I was thinking, man. That was pretty good until I got in there. The ring of power just ruins everyone. We are going to bypass biological needs. And we're going to do it pretty soon. It's going to be real soon. It's going to, it's going to sex. Regular sex is going to seem ridiculous in 20 years. We're going to be the like old -school guys. We're like, I still do sex the old -fashioned way with my wife. I remember when I was in high school. We got hand jobs. These kids fucking robots. Even their sex. People are going to be like, you have sex with your wife?

40:18That's insane, dude. How are you doing that? What if you guys get diseased? People die from those diseases. I do think like, I mean, I, look, obviously like I'm, I'm biased on the, like I have my own opinions on, on these things. But I do, but I do just think that one of the things that I've, I've found kind of amazing. And I've thought this with some of the people who have, have come on your show since the last time I was here, is the, the way that people can defend what Israel is doing in Gaza, does kind of blow my mind. It blows my mind, too. Because it, well, it, it reminds you that it's like, you're like, oh, okay, look, throughout all of human history, right?

40:57I'm not saying there's anything unique to Israel, like, they're the only ones to ever commit atrocities, or that they're not dealing with atrocities. What they're doing is super standard. Sure. In some world wars. In terms of like, Dresden. Well, yeah. But that's the thing. If you compare it to the worst things that have ever happened in the history of the world. But I'm just saying throughout all of human history, there's been atrocities, and there's been genocides, and ethnic cleansing campaigns, and slavery, and all. But at every single point, there was someone there willing to rationalize it.

41:26You know, like someone there who would be like, nah, nah, listen, this is what we have to do, because otherwise this, and it's amazing, the mental gymnastics that people can come up with to justify something that is so clearly on its face, just horrific. But I think the difference is, back then, your understanding of it was much more limited. Yeah. You weren't watching videos on it. They didn't exist. If you saw it on television or on the movie theater, it'd be a small clip that was played, and it was played before the film. But everyone knew that the reason why we're here is because people went to war and won.

42:06Or you escaped a war ravaged country, and you came to America. Everyone knew it. Everyone had an understanding of that. So when we were at war, people were signing up to go to war. There was no need to draft them. By the time Vietnam rolled around, people were starting to get more information. And they go, hey, I think this is a bullshit war, which is the first time ever in this short history of our country, where we were like, hey, this one sucks. It was kind of no defending it. It was, and then when you find out they were right, at the end of it all, when you find out many, many years later, the Gulf of Tonkin was a false flag.

42:43You're like, what? Which they didn't even need in order to be right. But then you find out you're like, oh, the whole thing was a whole thing. And then you go, what did you guys do with all that heroin money? Yeah. Where did all that money go? Because if I was the government, and I was willing, just imagine if Eisenhower's correct, which is insane. How could he be? And that there was a real influence of military industrial complex. If I was the military industrial complex, and I was willing to fucking start a war with North Vietnam for no fucking reason, for no reason. So 100%. I'm going to kill X amount of people and a bunch of Americans.

43:22And then you're going to actually make these people, these Americans. You're going to draft them and force them to go, because they don't want to go. You don't think I'd sell heroin? Like that would be your law in here. Do you think? Do you think Narcada? Hold on. How much of these guys make in? Yeah. How much of these fucking dudes make in? How much? Lot. How many billions? This is of what percentage of the world's heroin supply? And then when you see the same trick played out in Afghanistan, when you, like, my favorite was Geraldo Rivera interviewing the troops, rationalizing why they had to guard the cops.

43:58We have to guard the heroin. Yeah. For the good folks. Well, I couldn't, this heroin falls into the wrong hands. It could be lethal. There's no way America would sell this heroin. Yeah. There's no way the output of heroin out of Afghanistan, I want to say it was a 96 % increase. 80 % global supply. See, you're exaggerating, Joe. No, no, no, no, no, no. It was responsible for 80%. Ooh, yeah. There was responsible for most of the global supply of heroin. And the production went up after we invaded. So opium poppy, which grows extensively in Afghanistan, Southern fields, contains main opium ingredient used to manufacture heroin.

44:41Afghanistan was previously the world's top opium producer, responsible for over 80 % of the global supply in a major source of heroin in Europe and Asia. So how much did it go? Oh, plunges by 95%. When was this? Under the Taliban. Now, that's now. Yeah. Yeah. See, the Taliban doesn't want everybody on heroin. They want people to get back to work and make Afghanistan great again.

45:07The Taliban just ran on the troll. They fucking kicked out the drug dealers. That's what happened. They kicked out the drug dealers. Dude, there was a giant part of the supply of heroin to the world. The idea that we didn't... Well, we are not interested in that at all. We just want to push freedom. Yeah. And I think even people who are... Even the people I think who are lying about this shit rationalize it in their own head. But where does that money go? Yeah. Well, that's... Well, I know you were... I was listening to the Mike Baker podcast you had on where you were talking about the money in Ukraine and where it went.

45:42And he even... Yeah, yeah. We don't really know where the... I thought one of the funniest things about that was that some of it goes... Well, that's for sure. Woo! I think that's for sure. The Taliban is not... Our tax dollars have 100 % paid for some cocaine. Oh, certainly. The Taliban's successful opium ban is bad for Afghans and the world. This is... The ban is not a counter -narcotics victory. And we'll have negative economic and humanitarian consequences potentially leading to a refugee crisis. Oh, unlike us leaving in the middle of nowhere allowing the Taliban to kill all the people we worked with...

46:21But you get my point about how humans can rationalize anything. That could just come up with... Up again. Well, yes, of course. But they're up again. Yes, that's true. That's also true. But even people who are like... Look, I thought... The only way you could say that what that guy made sense is if you're advocating that heroin should be legal. Yes. But if you're advocating an heroin should be legal and this is your full... Okay, now I'll accept it. But if you really think that heroin is a scourge and if you really do appreciate that... A hundred thousand people died last year of opioid overdoses.

46:54A hundred thousand. It's a real fucking crisis. Yeah. If there was a disease killing a hundred thousand people we would freak the fuck out. Well, look, I mean, I do think there's a strong argument for legalization. But there's also a difference between that and the government kind of like sponsoring the trade of it. Damn, this is 90 % of heroin globally. And more than 95 % of the European supply. More land is used for opioid and Afghanistan that is used for co -cultivation Latin America. Bro, do you don't think that has something to do with it? Is that... am I silly? No, I think it's insane to ignore that.

47:33I mean, like, come on. Where's that money? Yeah. Well, it's always going to say... Rand Paul, I thought this was so funny. It was during one of the rounds of aid to Ukraine and Rand Paul stood up and said, look, we don't know where any of this money is going. If we're going to send them this money, can we at least have an inspector general so that we itemize like where all the money is going? And it failed. The vote failed. Like even in the Senate, they were like, what? What are you talking about? Communist talk. We're going to know where our money is going. Nah, that's lame. Yeah, we don't need that.

48:10We send it over there. Just send them that shit. Send them everything they need and more. And then do you have one of their flags? You should wave it around. Yeah. And we'll provide the flags. Wave it around in Congress. We'll provide the flags. Don't worry. They're all uniform, save size. It's not only people who bought them from different vendors. No, they all got them from the same... Well, they got a little box of them. Hey, make sure you guys grab your flags. It's fucking bonkers. It's also just so... The thing that's so wild to me is that after... And I've talked about this, I'm sure, on previous episodes.

48:40But just after 20 years of the terror wars and what a disaster those were. And to the point that everyone... John McCain wrote in his memoir that the war in Iraq was a mistake. That's how universally agreed upon it is. Which is so long. That the war... Even John McCain would acknowledge we got that one wrong. And it's not like anyone else is defending any of the other terror wars at this point. But then as soon as we kind of get out of them, we're not even fully out. But we're mostly out. We just get into these proxy wars in Ukraine and now in Israel. That are clearly wars of choice for America.

49:11Like we don't have to be involved in these. We're just still deciding to continue this war machine going. These last two are really important. When they get done, we're done. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. These last two. This is it. This is it. Right. You know, it's a... Anyway, man. I do... I will say that I think a lot of the defense of the war in Gaza, which I kind of feel weird even calling a war because it's not exactly... Doesn't exactly feel like that's what the term should be. The Bill Hicks joke. It's only a war when two armies are fighting. Well, right. Remember that joke? Yeah, probably.

49:44About Iraq. They say, oh, Bill, Iraq is the fourth largest army. He goes, yeah, but after number three, there's a big drop off. Right. He goes to Salvation Armies number five. That's a great bet. That's a great bet. Well, I mean, but he has some great bits about the war. But in the case of Gaza, it's not even like... There's not even a government. I mean, there are stateless people who have been captive by the Israelis since 1967. And then they're captive politically in their own country by Hamas. Right. And then Hamas does do what this accusation is that they have their bases under schools and hospitals.

50:25They actually do do that. Yeah, I think it's certainly exaggerated at times by the Israelis, but there is no question that they are... Look, they're in this. Gaza is, dude, it's five miles wide. I know. Guys, Gaza, you know, you could jog from one side to the other without taking a break. It's literally... I would take a break. Way closer. Way smaller than here to my club. Yeah. Yeah. Now, imagine that. Imagine. Imagine like an extra 10 miles. Yeah. That small tract of land in the last five miles is what's getting the fuck blown out of it. It is... It's, I think, 25 by five. So it's like a marathon by a jog.

51:05You know what I mean? Like, that's how... That's Gaza. It's so little. No, look, so I'm just saying part of this. And this isn't... I'm not like making any excuses. I mean, there's no question they have been incidents of Hamas like embedding themselves in civilian locations. But also, it's not as if they have a military or a government. It's not as if there's going to be two armies that meet themselves on the battlefield here. There is one is... Hamas is essentially a gang in an Israeli prison that like rose up as the toughest gang there. And yeah, in such a densely populated area, that's the way as they call it asymmetric warfare is going to work.

51:44I do it, look, man, because I do... I took issue with like a few things that some of the guests you've had on recently have said. Like, I know... I think all of this... A lot of times it comes down to framing. Like, how you want to look at an issue. And particularly, the people who are way behind Israel on this, I feel like always rely on this very strange framing. So they don't have to confront exactly what's going on. And they can kind of look at it in more of an abstract, removed way. Like, when you had a... I'm sorry, if I'm saying his name wrong, but... Gads. Gads. How do you say his name?

52:16Salat. Gads. I've read his stuff before, but I don't... I always but your names. But so one of the things he said, which I know it's... I've heard this in every debate I've done on the topic so far. But he said the thing... Same thing Dennis Prager said to me when we debate it. He was like, well, look, if Israel laid down all their arms, there'd be a genocide. If Hamas laid down all their arms, there'd be peace. And forget the fact that I will say I don't agree with the second part of that. I don't think that's clear at all. I think if Hamas laid down all their arms, which essentially the Palestinians are as close to have laid down all their arms...

52:49Isn't everyone looking at it too binary? Like, even if you're supporting the Israelis, even if you're from that position, you have to acknowledge the attacks on AIDS workers. Like, it seems to be there's a bunch of targeted attacks on people bringing in food. Like Joseon dresses people. Yeah. And then there's been more of those. Like, there's all these... I think how many documented attacks are there on... AIDS supply. Because it's a big number. There's been several, I know, for sure. I think it's a big number. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, it's been hard. It's creepy. Well, I remember when you had...

53:29Anyway, just the point I was thinking about Gads thing is that it's also this like, I just hate when people retreat to almost these hypotheticals. It reminds me of Sam Harris's argument about why you were really wrong with the at least eight times. Eight times. So, eight times, Israeli forces have attacked humanitarian aid convoys and buildings in the Gaza Strip. At least eight times since October, despite being given coordinates to ensure their protection, human rights watch has set in a new report. So, they're targeting these people. So, you've got some members of the Israeli military that don't give a fuck and they want to stop these people from getting food.

54:07And, well, look, and this has kind of been like Agdon. Look, there'll be so much like scrutiny over like some college kids chanting from the river to the sea. And look, for the record, if I was in charge of those protests, I'd say stop chanting that. Because even if you don't mean it to... Even if you don't mean it that way, which some people will argue they don't. And that's fine. Maybe that's not what you mean. Maybe you mean it's from the river to the sea. Everyone will be free and whatever. Maybe that's how you mean it. But it's also the same thing, Hamas Chants. And they clearly mean something else when they say that.

54:39So, like, maybe just use a different term. But for the sake of... You can't use a swastika for its old -timey use. Right. Like, if nothing else, it's a bad idea. However, for all the scrutiny they'll be over what these 20 -year -olds are hollering at Columbia, when Benjamin Netanyahu is saying they're Amalak as you're going into this area, which, you know, the story from the Bible is that you're supposed to kill the women in the children. And the story is that they fucked up by not killing all the women in the children. And then, like, they came back. Now, even if you could argue, he doesn't mean it that way.

55:09It's like, okay, but... You're saying that. Amalak, the story from the Bible. The story is they were like a tribe who was like an evil tribe, and you had to kill all of them. Kill the women and the children. And that's the specific, like, lesson of that story. Is that you're supposed to kill the women and the children. And then you conduct a campaign like this. This is, by the way, this is what was in the South Africa case. That they brought to the UN. And that they, you know, the ICJ basically said that Israel is plausibly committing a genocide. And they didn't exactly, you know, they haven't yet determined that it is or isn't, but they said it's plausible.

55:45But anyway, to my point that I'm making about what Sad was saying is that it reminds me of Sam Harris, where he sits here and he goes, he goes, well, imagine this hypothetical. Imagine COVID was 100 times as deadly, and the vaccine was perfect, again, stopping transmission, and there were no vaccine injuries. Well, hey, now you don't look so good anymore. Do you, Joe Rogan? No, he wasn't saying that. He was saying you could, when someone's saying you could never mandate a vaccine or argue for a mandate, and he was saying if there was a vaccine, you could, he was making an intellectual argument, he's correct, that you could argue that if there was a vaccine that had zero side effects and was 100 % effective, and if everybody took it, the disease stops, you could make that argument.

56:32Well, what he was saying was that then how would we feel? But he goes, then how would we feel about what Joe Rogan is saying, and what RFK is saying, when they were telling, you know what I mean? But the point is that thing does not exist. The hypothetical, like that, it doesn't exist in nature. Right. But there's no vaccines that are 100 % safe with no side effects, none of them. I'm just saying I'm not against engaging in a thought experiment to think about what that scenario would look like, but at the same time, you're like, it does seem like that's serving in this case as a distraction from the real world scenario that's going on here.

57:05So like, if you're going to say, if Israel, yes, I would not recommend Israel lay down all of their arms, completely disarmed themselves, and then open up the wall to Gaza and allow Hamas to come in. But that's not on the table, that's never going to happen. So like, even thinking about that as a thought experiment doesn't really prove that much. What's actually going on here is like, what Israel is doing to Gaza? And, you know, right, but if you could flip it around, the opposite would be true. Like if Hamas did lay down all their weapons, and if they did completely give up, you're going to have some Israeli soldiers that do not give a fuck that still want to shoot them.

57:49But for the most part, if there was nothing, if they completely gave up, which is also not going to happen. But if that did happen, you couldn't see a situation where Israel just continues bombing. Maybe not, but then where, what do they go to? Just being subjugated by the Israel back to the status quo of just being a stateless people of permanent, permanent refugees with no natural rights whatsoever, no ability to trade with the world, no ability to come and leave. You can't have an airport, you can't have a seaport, you can't go out fishing past where some IDF guy decides you're not allowed to.

58:21So like, yeah, if Hamas laid down all their arms, perhaps Israel would stop the bombing campaign. But then they would just continue subjugation forever, which has been the Lecude Party official policy since they were created by the terrorist Minachem Began. Like, literally since this party that is the ruling party in Israel was created, their goal has been that the Palestinian people never get their own state, they never get their own freedom, and that's resulted in this. And you don't give them their own freedom. There's no way you can justify it. No way you can justify that a whole entire group of people never get to be a country.

59:00They don't get the rights of the Israelis. They don't get the rights of a sovereign country. They're tried. Yeah, nothing. Literally no rights whatsoever. That's kind of crazy that that's being done by Israel, if you really think about it. It's kind of crazy. Well, in some way, in a way it is, and then in another way, it's kind of not. It's kind of like there's this weird, you know, hurt people, hurt people, type thing. Like when you kind of suffer this trauma, and we're speaking collectively here, so it's not exactly the same as an individual, but like you suffer this trauma, and then you use that to justify doing whatever the hell you got to do so that you never suffer that trauma again, and then you weirdly end up kind of like inflicting something on another group of people.

59:41And kind of in a weird way, holding them responsible for the trauma. You suffered, even though they really, really hadn't very little nothing to do with the actual trauma. It's really an ancient kind of conflict. The Israel palestine is very, it's very ancient in the fact that it's like the hate between them is so strong and they're right next door to each other. Which is how people used to rock it back in the day. You know, I mean, that was the fear of neighboring tribes, that people from the other side were going to come over and rape the women and children and kill your babies and slaughter the men.

1:00:17And not like an irrational fear. Like a fear based on me. This really happens. You know what I mean? And it's happening in Israel. I mean, that's what's crazy. The other thing though, is that, and that's all true. But the other thing is that, you know, there are these examples right like where there's Ireland and England, and they're right next to each other. And like things are just cool now. And France and Germany are right next to each other. And they're just cool now. Yeah, but Ireland and Northern Ireland were at war with each other. Right, forever. No, but I'm just making the point that, and then it's over.

1:00:44Right. And now they're not at war anymore. And Egypt, Egypt, went to war with Israel four times between the, it was in 1948, 56, 67, and 72 or 73. Did I say that four times? Was Ireland at war with Northern Ireland? Yeah, yeah, because they were at Southern Ireland. Well, they were the British controlled. Right. But it was really England. Yes, yeah, yeah. It was by proxy, England, basically dominating the Irish. And then by the way, the Irish turned to terrorism when they were being dominated by the English. Shocker. And yeah, which is another thing that people, another real interesting. You have to do it.

1:01:21It's the only way to go to war. Well, if you don't have a, if you have a smaller army and they have all the money, you've got to figure out a way to get them. Well, here's the craziest part of this, right? Is that, and I thought, we talked a bunch about the history of this last time I was on, but I don't think I mentioned this. Maybe I did. But the craziest part of all of it is that the Israelis, or I shouldn't say the Israelis, the Israelis five seconds before they became Israelis. Like right before the creation of the state of Israel, they embraced terrorism. And by the way, these, these terrorists, who are the leaders of these terrorist organizations, like Menachem Began and Yisak Shamir, they went on to be prime ministers of Israel.

1:01:59But they worked terrorists. And I'm not like, I don't mean this is a pejorative, like self -described terror, like they embraced terrorism. What was their organization called? Menachem Began's was the, the Ergun, that was his militia. And then there was Lehigh, or the Stern Gang. And then there was the Haganah, who was like the biggest one. And they were not quite as terroristic, but they also were involved in a bunch of it. And their justification for it was to drive out the occupying force, which was the British at the time. The, after World War II, the Zionists who were in Palestine, were like, had enough of the British occupying the area.

1:02:41And they were, they were very angry because they had limited Jewish migration during the run up to the Holocaust. So they had a real beef with the, the British at this point. Even though the British had kind of like, allowed them to have a chance to establish a Jewish homeland there. But so they embraced terrorism to drive them out. You can go look up the King David hotel, killed a whole bunch of innocent people, including Jews in the hotel, because they just wanted to use terrorism to drive out an occupying force. And then they actually introduced terrorism into that region. And many of the same tactics that the Palestinians went on to embrace were stuff that they picked up from the Jewish terrorists at that time.

1:03:19But then the same Israelis will turn around and be like, well, I don't know why these Palestinians have embraced terrorism. And like, they're telling you it's for the same reason. It's to drive out an occupying force. And of course, the major difference there is that Israel, Israelis came to stay, whereas the British were there, you know, they had their, this was a satellite. They had their home country back in Europe. And they could be driven out. It's a whole different thing to try to drive someone out who's like, no, we're setting up our homes here. But, and there's more of us. Yeah, well, not that much.

1:03:50I mean, there's Palestinians and Israelis is pretty close if you count all of them. Well, you're also backed by America. Well, that's the major difference. Well, and that's basically my essential argument is that America shouldn't be playing this role. And this is being argued out now. Yeah. You know, this is a big point of contention now politically, right? Because the Biden administration is not giving the same amount of support to Israel that it was. They've been giving basically. I mean, what's really going on is that Joe Biden, this is a disaster politically for Joe Biden. And something like, I'm looking at the polls recently.

1:04:29I think you understand of his base. Different Twitter followers. What do you mean? I mean, my Twitter feed seems like he's doing a great job. Really? Yeah. You know, you're doing excellent. He's totally got it down. There's a lot of people that are arguing that. Did I send you jobs? I sent you his latest clip from his speech. I said, new Biden just dropped. And it's the newest. Yes. And by the way, it's not he meant to say, I think financial crash, but he said pandemic, but he said during the pandemic, when he was vice president, Barack Obama sent him to Detroit. And you're just like, dude, what?

1:05:02Why does that have a Detroit? Well, why would they send you to Detroit to deal with COVID? Well, no, I saw someone saying that perhaps it was the H1N1 pandemic, which did happen during the Biden administration, or during the Obama administration, when he was vice president? I don't think. I don't think. I think he was talking about it. He would have probably said a previous pandemic. Yeah. The point is just that he doesn't say so much. Remember back in 2009? He's out of his fucking mind. If it was occasional, people would let this stuff go. Yeah. But anyway, just two that look. I also thought, because some of these guys, by the way, had on your show, like I like them.

1:05:37I'm not even like, you know, like Coleman Hughes. I don't know him personally, but I like him. He seems really smart. And I haven't read his book, but I bet I would love it. Well, you two together would be a fascinating conversation, just about the Israel Palestine conference. Yeah. Well, I would love to have a comment, because I think he's a good faith guy, and I think he is. And he's very smart. But he also kind of, you know, there were two things that kind of rubbed me the wrong way when he was on the show. Number one was that he started by kind of getting into this argument about, which I see a lot of people who are supporting this conflict doing.

1:06:11The argument about, like, okay, we'll hear the number of total civilians dead and hear the number of Hamas militants dead. And let's look at that ratio. And then is that ratio that far off from what you find in a typical war? And there's a few problems with this. Number one, the numbers are totally unreliable. And so you're having this conversation, right? Yes, on both sides. I mean, both sides are totally incentivized to exaggerate the numbers. And also, in the fog of war, it's very hard to keep up with these numbers. We never really know the numbers of dead and war until, like, years later, when the excess mortality is calculated and then you get a better idea of what was really going on there.

1:06:50The Israeli government talking about the number of Hamas militants they've killed seems to be them just pulling numbers out of their ass. Like, they dropped these bombs. They don't know how many. Who got who? And who was on in there and checking dog tags? Yeah, they're not. You know what I mean? But anyway, but even that, I just, even if the numbers were right, it's like, look, dude, if you look at the population density and you just look at the number of bombs that Israel has dropped and you just see a lot of the footage that we've seen and you just listen to stories that doctors are telling.

1:07:18I literally just saw an interview a couple weeks ago with a doctor who just got back from Gaza and he was talking about how they have a major anesthesia shortage over there. So just think about the implications of that. Like, what that means? Because they're operating on kids without anesthesia. You know what I mean? So the point is that if you're talking about, well, this many Hamas people are dying compared to this many innocent babies are dying, that's not the question. Like, when you're inflicting this level of human suffering on people, the question for any decent civilized person is, is this absolutely necessary?

1:07:55Is there any other option besides doing this? And as soon as you frame the question that way, you realize that, oh yeah, there actually is. And that it's not true that Israel, there will just be October 7th after October 7th if Israel stops doing this. The fact is that, of course, Netanyahu's never allowed a real investigation into October 7th to happen. But everybody pretty much concludes that Israel dropped the ball in a massive way. In a massive way that their security was just in shambles and all they really needed to do was not rely so much on these, you know, machine gun robots and have actual soldiers at the border.

1:08:33They could easily just stop this right now. There's like a protest where the soldiers were allocated towards? Yes, they basically they had, so I think as a result of the protest against Netanyahu, he had started to ally with some even further right wing groups than he normally would have and to appease them, he was pulling soldiers off of the Gaza border and putting them over toward the West Bank, which is what the religious Jews on the right really care about. And yes, they basically got caught with their pants down. So, but I'm just saying they could just stop doing this. It's not they all die or they keep doing this.

1:09:13They could stop and Israel can still protect itself. In fact, I'd argue their security would be enhanced if they stopped doing this. But the other thing which you brought up to Coleman Hughes was that you mentioned to him, you said, what about the didn't Israel like prop up Hamas? Wasn't that part of their strategy for a while? And he, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and maybe he just doesn't know about that detail of this as much because if not, he was kind of being dishonest. But he, but maybe he just wasn't familiar with all of this stuff. But he kind of went, you said that, and then he kind of dismissed it by saying, well, there's a quote that's attributed to Netanyahu, but it wasn't on videotape.

1:10:01So like we don't, essentially being like, we don't really know if Netanyahu said this or not. And then just kind of moved on to the conversation away from that. But I find this, I found this in all of my debates that I've done on this and I've done like eight debates on this since the war broke out. Everybody on the pro -Israeli side does not want to grapple with that point because it really is like a it's a narrative shattering point once you acknowledge it. But so, right. But if it isn't on videotape, he has a point as well. Well, here, let me, okay. So here's the deal, right? So the quote that he's referring to was a quote by Benjamin Netanyahu, it was something along the lines of anybody who wants to thwart the Palestinians having their own state needs to support propping up Hamas, bolstering Hamas, transferring money to them to maintain, right?

1:10:46So there was a quote like this. So here's Hamas maintains power. So Hamas maintains power so that they never, we never have to give them a state because we can look to the international community. We can look to liberal Jews in Israel and say, look, we have no partner for peace. They're a crazy terrorist group. So we never, we never have to make a deal. We don't have to fulfill our promise that we would give them. How was it attributed to him? So basically this quote, particularly, okay. This was at a closed -door meeting with the Lecude party. So this is Benjamin Netanyahu's political party, his far right party that's in power right now in Israel.

1:11:16So it's true that this was a closed -door meeting and that it's not on tape. So what happened is, as far as I could tell, the first person who reported this, I believe was a lady who's a reporter for the Jerusalem post. And then it's been run in a bunch of other newspapers since then. So basically what happened is, in eyewitness, who was there at the meeting. So another Lecude party member, in Benjamin Netanyahu's political party, came and told her that he said this. And then she went and checked with somebody else who was there and he also confirmed that, like, yes, Benjamin Netanyahu said this.

1:11:49And then a third person who was also at the meeting came out and wrote about it in his book, or wrote about it in another newspaper article or something like that. So you had three eyewitnesses from within his own political party who confirmed that he said this. Now, take that for what it's worth. I think that's reasonably strong. That three eyewitnesses all in his political party said. As long as they were trying to get rid of him. But because you can get more than three people to say that Donald Trump was in collusion with Russia. Sure. So even, even say if you don't trust them, Coleman acted as if that's what the entire case is built off of, which is just not true at all.

1:12:23It's not just this one Benjamin Netanyahu quote. It's dozens and dozens of quotes from Israeli leaders all throughout the political spectrum. There's been reporting on this done by almost every major Israeli newspaper, at Haretz Times of Israel. The Times of Israel on October 8th had a piece by Tal Schneider, which was how Ben Lod, excuse me, how Netanyahu's support for Hamas just blew up in his face. It was the next day. And because even critics, like Ahud Barak, who was the former prime minister, he's a labor party. He's a critic of Benjamin Netanyahu. So he was a critic of this plan to prop up Hamas.

1:13:02But it's totally uncontroversial that this was their plan. The New York Times just ran a piece, I think it was late last year. It might have been early this year. Where they talked about how two weeks before October 7th, Benjamin Netanyahu sent the head of the Masad to cutter because funds going into Hamas had slowed down. And he sent them in there to make sure the funds continued. The case for this is overwhelming. It's not like relying on one... Yeah, here you go. Yeah, for years the Katari government had been saying that right. Is that how you say it? Katari, I think it's... Yeah, Katari government had been sending millions of dollars a month to the Gaza Strip.

1:13:47Money that helped prop up the Hamas government there, Benjamin. Prime Minister Benjamin Nahu, Netanyahu of Israel, not only tolerated those payments, he had encouraged them. According to Times, Israeli intelligence agencies, agents rather, travel the Gaza with a Katari official carrying suitcases filled with cash. Suitcases, like a mafia movie, to disperse money. Retired Israeli general Shlomo Brahm described the logic of Netanyahu's position. One effective way to present a two -state solution is to... Prevent, prevent. Prevent a two -state solution is to divide between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

1:14:25If the extremist Hamas ruled Gaza, then the Palestinian Authority would be a compromise, Comperador government? Is that a set? Comperador? I don't even know what that is. Comperador government with a tenuous hold on the West Bank would be further weakened. This, according to Brahm, would allow Netanyahu to say, I have no partner. And so that's... Okay, so that's essentially the point there, right? So that's a strategy. He can say I have no partner for peace, which is the Israeli line that they like to use. So basically... Okay, in 1979, the Egyptians and the Israelis met at Camp David, and that's when they worked out their peace.

1:14:59Now, their peace also just involved, basically, that the US would pay them both off. We'd given both $3 billion a year in perpetuity if they stopped going to war with each other, basically. And part of that was that Israel promised that they would eventually give the Palestinians a state. Like, it was recognized by DC at the time, this Jimmy Carter, that like, you got to give them a state, because otherwise this fighting is going to continue on and on and on forever. So they promised that eventually they would give it to them. This is the Yasser -Arafat days. This is before Yasser -Arafat was like the guy, but he was alive.

1:15:36But then, in the 80s, Yasser -Arafat basically rejected terrorism. He had been involved in terrorism before that. He rejected terrorism, and he recognized Israel. I think it was in 1988. He recognized Israel's right to exist under 1967 borders. So basically, Israel has the right to exist, but we have the right to Gaza and the West Bank. The ultimate of compromises from the Palestinian perspective, because a lot of their more hardcore guys are like, no, all of this was ours. We shouldn't have lost any of it. And now, even the original US partition plan, which was rejected by the Arabs for fairly good reasons, they rejected it because it gave 55 % to the Jews and only 56 % to the Jews and only 44 % to the Palestinians.

1:16:26And they were like, but we're like 90 % of the population here, or 90 % of the landowners here, whatever. And this isn't fair. But now, at this point, they're talking about 78 % versus 22%. So they're accepting 22%. And so that's Yasser -Arafat in the late 80s. And then this is what set the stage for the Oslo Accords in the early 90s. And this is like famously when Bill Clinton has Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser -Arafat over, and they shake hands, and they sign these deals. And the promise, again, from Israel was that we're starting the peace process to eventually give the Palestinians their state. This is the process.

1:17:05And there were steps along this process. Okay? Now, in 1996, Benjamin Netanyahu becomes prime minister. Now, the same year in 1996, there was this letter. You can find this on the internet. It's called a clean break, a new strategy for securing the realm. And it was written by Richard Pearl and David Wormsar, and a couple other people. Of course, Richard Pearl and David Wormsar both went on to be very influential neo -conservatives in the George W. Bush administration. So they write this letter, not to President Bill Clinton, and not to Bob Dole, who was running for President on the Republican ticket that year.

1:17:44They write this letter to Benjamin Netanyahu, the new prime minister of Israel. And basically, if you read it, what they say is that they're like, look, look, you guys are all caught up in this peace process thing, where you're talking about, given the Palestinians land, we need a clean break from that strategy. And we're going to have a whole new strategy. And what it's going to involve is you making agreements with the broader Arab world so that you don't have to make this agreement. With the Palestinians. You see, the old way of thinking was always that Israel will never be able to make peace with the broader Muslim world, because they're furious about what you're doing in the Palestinians.

1:18:24But the clean break strategy was like, no, no, no. You're going to embark on what ultimately became the Netanyahu doctrine that will make it deals with the rest of the Arab world. So we don't have to give up this land. And you know what they recommended? These two neo -conservatives in 1996, and I bet you'll never guess this, Joe, regime change in Iraq for the security of Israel. That was in 1996. And these people got in George W. Bush's government. And after 9 -11, those same people decided that they believed that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and that he was involved in 9 -11.

1:19:00Yeah. So there it is. Israel can shape its strategic environment and cooperation with Turkey and Jordan by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and important Israeli strategic objective in its own right as a means of foiling Syria's regional ambitions. And here's where it gets crazy.

1:19:26How much of a... What a great job that Assad did in compromising people, by the way. I mean, how much of an effect did that have in everything? You know, you can go full Eddie Bravo and think everything that's happening is because of Epstein's Island. And I used to dismiss that a lot more easy than I do now. Maybe not everything. A lot of stuff. But certainly some things. Well, look, you will see this. You will see this. And I'm not saying that Epstein is the sole reason for this type of stuff. There's several different reasons. But you see this all over the political sphere. And especially amongst like conservative commentators.

1:20:08Where as soon as Israel's mentioned, whatever their principles were that they were just rolling with are like gone. Yeah. Like it's a totally different thing. And I get that. I get there's a reason for that too. Of course, like what Jewish people have been through in the 20th century in the 19th and 18th century. Like that play is a part in that too. But there's no question that like it's not just it's not just Epstein. It's also and I highly recommend people read John Mearsheimer has a great book called The Israeli Lobby. There's also this lobby APEC which are very, very powerful lobby. The truth is that every US president since with perhaps the exception of Trump, I'm actually not sure about that.

1:20:55But every US president since Jimmy Carter. I know for sure excluding Trump every one of them wanted a two -state solution. Every single one of them. None of them were able to get it done. Even though we bankroll Israel, you'd think it'd be fairly easy for us to like put pressure on the country that's relying on us. Like okay, we'll keep supporting you, but you got to do this. Nope. Even when they go over and say we want to do this, they're not able to do that. And part of that is because of the lobby. Part of that is because there's like tens of millions of evangelical Christians in this country who believe that the Jews have to control Israel.

1:21:33Like in some religious view that Jesus can't come back unless the Jews control them or something like that. You exactly understand it. They go there on tour. They have tour say go there. Well, and the Israeli government is well aware of that. And they're well aware of how much they benefit from that. So they do everything they can to facilitate that belief. Why do you say golf shirts? Yeah, that's right. They're a big force. They're a really big block in this country. There's not like a few dozen of them. Like they're willing to throw some real money. Yes. That's bringing Jesus back. Yes, they're very, that's a very big deal to them.

1:22:03But look, like there's all of these U .S. presidents, they've wanted an outcome that they're unable to get. And you can look, there's this one video of Benjamin Netanyahu where he doesn't know he's being recorded. And he's speaking openly about this. And so he openly starts bragging about how he basically blew up the peace process. And how he, like, he bases recording on this. Oh, yeah, I mean, it's in Hebrew, but there's, it's translated. And it's legit. It's been translated by like a whole bunch of different people. And he's bragging about how he put all of these poise and pills into the peace agreement.

1:22:40Like he was like, oh, yeah, sure. Well, well, Grant, I agreed to grant them a state. But only after it was determined that we could like Israel could control like military, like important military areas. And then he was like, I also snuck it in. That only Israel gets to define what the military important areas are. And I decided that a third of the West Bank is that. And like he's bragging about, and he's bragging about how he tricked Bill Clinton and how easy it is to move the Americans. It's wild. Like there's, there's a lot of power plays at work here. And the only other thing, I'll say about this.

1:23:15And it's not just like the neoconservative, the clean break, the strategy that they wrote for Netanyahu. It's that, so in 2002, Benjamin Netanyahu comes and testifies before Congress as a, as a regional expert. And he testifies that like, oh, yeah, if you guys overthrow Saddam Hussein, democracy will sweep the region. Let me tell you, I know something because I know this region better than anyone else. And at one point, Dennis Kusenej actually grilled him and got him on record. And he goes, is there anybody else that you're advocating that we preemptively attack? And Netanyahu goes, yeah, around.

1:23:50Attack them too. So I'm not like, I don't hate Israel. Like I think Israel is a cool country. I think what they do to the Palestinians is fucked up and it's inexcusable and they should stop. But I think Israel is a cool country. There's a lot of great things about them. But like Netanyahu, this guy who's the longest serving Prime Minister in Israeli history, has been trying to get America into wars that are in his interest, that are very clearly not in ours. And the fact that we have to like unconditionally support Israel, even when our own democratically elected President doesn't like the policies that they're enacting, and yet they still get all of this support, even now, you know, Joe Biden doesn't know what he's saying because he's got dementia, but there's people in his ear who are telling him to like, say, don't invade Rafa.

1:24:36And he's like, don't invade Rafa. And then Benjamin Netanyahu is like, okay, we're going to invade Rafa. And it's just like, okay, we'll fine. If we have no influence over what you're going to do, and you'll just wag the middle finger at us and brag about how you tricked Bill Clinton and defy what our presidents want you to do, like, okay, fine. But then you don't get our money and our weapons, right? Like, isn't that reasonable? It is reasonable, but it's also, the left is very confused on this one. This is a baffling one for the left. Yeah, they should have. Support of Israel has always been a position of people on the left, right?

1:25:10Support of Jewish people. And to not want that is kind of anti -Semitic. Well, look, on the hard left, there's always been a bunch of people who are sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians, right? Well, the people that have seen Abbey Martin's take on it. Yeah. But Abbey Martin also like follows in a tradition of left -wing thought, like, known Chomsky and people like this, who have always been very critical of the Israeli government's treatment of the Palestinians. Yes. But this is where it gets weird. It's like the support of Israel when Israel was attacked. So that's when everything gets crazy.

1:25:47It's not support of Israel before October 7th. It's post -October 7th. So now you have hardcore lefties who are now they're like the majority of young people now. It's a big thing in this country. In universities, it's crazy. I mean, they're going nuts. They're attacking students. They're attacking teachers. People can't go to work. They're being told if they support Israel, they can't be on campus. It's just the whole thing is it's very bad for the left in that regard. Because it's like Jewish people traditionally vote left. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean the overwhelming majority, I think 85 % of Jews are Democrats or something like that.

1:26:30And, you know, obviously there's not full, like even today there was a news report of a huge government protest in Israel. They're in the streets. So it's not like this is a policy that's supported by the entire population. Well, there's, I mean, there was, so basically I think what really changed things. During the 90s, there's no question there was tremendous support for making a deal for a two -state solution. Particularly amongst like liberal Israelis. And they're basically, so Yitzhak Rabin got assassinated by a right -wing Israeli who was furious that he was a traitor for making a deal with the Palestinians.

1:27:12And that took him out. And then when Netanyahu came in and then ultimately, I guess it was Sharon who was in the year 2000. And there was another meeting at Camp David where, you know, what people will say, which is just not true. But what a lot of the people of the pro -Israeli side will say is that they offered them everything. Right. They offered the Palestinians everything they wanted. And they just turned it down. And this is their, it's all slogans. It's like they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. But if you actually look into the details of all of it, even Shlomo Ben -Ami, who was the acting foreign minister at the time involved in these negotiations, he even said in his book, and he said it in a democracy now interview, that he would have turned down the deal, too, if he was Arifat.

1:28:02Because the deal was just so, it was so removed from actually giving him his own state that it was like, this is just, it was an insulting offer, essentially. But when those negotiations broke down, and then it was after Sharon had this visit to the Temple Mount, which really inflamed tensions, when the negotiations broke down, then the second Intifada started. And there was a big wave of terrorist attacks. And that, you know, in the same cycle we were talking about at the beginning, that did a lot to turn a lot of liberal Israelis off of the idea that like, well, there's no negotiating, a piece.

1:28:37But it is worth noting that whenever there weren't negotiations going on, the support for terrorism, the support for Hamas and groups like that, always plummeted. And then whenever the negotiations broke down, the support for those terrorist groups picked back up again. Because the big problem here is that you're just, when you, essentially when you take away the dangling carrot in front of an oppressed people, like, you let them know that there's no hope, that you're going to live in subjugation for eternity. That's a very dangerous situation. That's when people will turn to really, really dark means.

1:29:17And that's, you know, essentially, look, Netanyahu, what became the Netanyahu doctrine, and a lot of this culminated in the Abraham Accords, which a lot of Trump supporters will brag about. They'll be like, look at all these peace deals that Donald Trump worked out in the Middle East, except the problem is that there was no war between any of the countries that he worked out these deals. It was just kind of like normalizing relations between Israel and these other Arab countries around them. But what was the reason why relations weren't normalized? It was because they were pissed off about Israel's treatment of the Palestinians.

1:29:50So basically, Jared Kushner's brilliant idea, along with Netanyahu's, was that, oh, well, if we just bribe all of these countries with US taxpayer dollars or weapons, we can get them to look the other way. And say, screw the Palestinians. We'll make a deal with the US and with Israel. So they did that. And Netanyahu was bragging about this. Netanyahu, just a couple of weeks before September 11th, right around the time that he sent the head of Masad into Qatar to make sure the money kept going to Hamas. He went to the UN with a map of greater Israel, and it was all Israel. Gaza, the West Bank, and what is Israel proper?

1:30:25All Israel in his map. Like they were just bragging to them. Like, haha, you guys lost. You get nothing. That's it. Nothing. This map of greater Israel, this is something that he's proposing for the future. This is, this is in, you know, as much as people will point to the Hamas founding charterns, it says from the river to the sea or whatever. And that's true, at least they're original one. But that's in the Lecude founding documents also. In different words, but it's basically from, basically from the river to the sea, will be all Israel, which is what it has been, you know, from since 1967.

1:31:02And again, by the way, I'm not trying to make... I'm not trying to make a map. Why would he have a, that sounds like a plot and movie. Sure does. Like this is, like this is all of ours. What? I do. No deals. Yeah, well, right. Something like that. It does, it sounds like a bad guy in a movie. Well, look, I also don't, don't want to, because there are people who also jump to like other conspiracy theories that I don't think are right. That, well, they'll say kind of like a... Like what? Well, because, okay, so because Netanyahu was supporting Hamas and because he was using them kind of as, you know what I mean?

1:31:35Like, oh good, we'll keep these terrorists over here so that they're not linked up with the people in the West Bank over here. And then I have no, I get a, you know, a certificate, I forget the exact phrase, but it was, I have a, I think he said at one point, I have a no partner for peace certificate signed by the president in both houses of Congress. Because look, I don't have to ever do a two -state deal. But then people will jump to the next level, which is that like, oh, he, he wanted October 7th. There was a stand -down order. This is why it took Israel so long. Yeah, it's a black flag. That, or a false flag.

1:32:09Yeah, that I don't, I don't think is right. Or at least I haven't seen convincing evidence that it is. From everything I've read about it, it actually seems a lot more like, if you remember, I know we talked about the same thing on the podcast years ago when I was on, but if you remember when, okay, so in 2012 when Obama decided that they were going to start arming all of the anti -Assad rebels, and there's actually a hot mic of John Kerry talking about this and because they were doing it through 2013, through 2014. And he goes, he goes, yeah, look, we saw the rise of ISIS coming, and we knew the weapons were getting into their hands.

1:32:48But we thought, okay, that might put pressure on Assad to have to step down. So like we could use this group in order to get the regime change that we wanted. But then they turned around and invaded Iraq. And like that wasn't part of the plan. You know what I mean? Like they weren't supposed to do that. Then we had to re -invade Iraq to get rid of ISIS. You know what I mean? And so there, if you remember during that time, there was one point when Obama called ISIS JV. It was like kind of like insulting them. Like, listen, these guys, and you could kind of see where Obama was coming from. He's like, I don't know.

1:33:21I'm the commander -in -chief of the United States of America's military. I'm worried about ISIS. These guys are nothing compared to what the power that we have. And there's a lot of people at the highest level of the Israeli government who spoke exactly the same way about Hamas. That's the Benjamin Netanyahu quote that he says, we can control the height of the flame. When he's talking about, you know, the propping up Hamas. He goes, don't worry, we can control what they're able to do and what they're not able to do. These guys are nothing compared to our strength. But let me ask. There was tremendous hubris ahead.

1:33:52Let's, let's a sake of what if? Sure. What if they decided on a two -state solution as it currently stands? And they just let the people run it, however they want, and Hamas takes over the whole Palestine. It Palestine becomes a country controlled by Hamas. And then they start doing trading with other countries. And then they start acquiring weapons, like real sophisticated weapons like Israel has, where the iron dome is no longer successful. Right. So this is kind of the counterfactual that a lot of Israelis will rely on to say, well, look, we can't give them their own state. Because what if, when they get their own state, they decide to do this with it?

1:34:31So, all right. There's an old Thomas Jefferson quote of that slavery. And I'll butcher this, as I always do, but I like bringing it up. But it's something along the lines of he goes, we have the wolf by the ear. And we can neither afford to hold on to it, nor to safely let it go. And essentially what he was saying was like this was a major concern of people, even people who were kind of sympathetic to the abolitionist cause, who were like, yeah, look, but we've like enslaved these people for so long. And so what are we going to do? Freedom and make them citizens who are allowed to get guns? Like they're going to be so furious at us.

1:35:09They're going to come kill all of us. And you can kind of see, especially in this way, more of them. Well, especially you have a plantation and how many slaves do that? Right, right. In certain areas, you might have had... You might have had... All get together and organized. Yeah, so you could see where it... That could have been a real... It was the hammering really good point, too. Right, but at the same time, dude, who whipped you, lives in that big White House, and now you've got a shotgun? Yeah, so there's no question there's a concern about that. However, I also think looking back at it, most people in modern times would say, yeah, we can't.

1:35:39But you can't enslaved people, man. You fucked up. You shouldn't deserve that out of the first place. And look, I also do think that... You better get the fuck out of Dodge. Like the way... Well, the way Darryl Cooper says it, which I actually think is a reasonable way to put it, is he goes like... I heard someone ask him that question once, and he goes, okay, well, if that happened, then we're having a different conversation. You know, but that's not the conversation right now. The conversation right now is about Israel dominating these people in perpetuity. But I also do think that I don't...

1:36:09Listen, I think that groups like Hamas get their strength from the fact that there are so many people who want to resist this total domination by the Israelis. You know, it was a general Macrystal. It's not a libertarian dove like me, not like some comic idiot like me, who's just like, oh, I'm against war. General Macrystal, who was running the war in Afghanistan, before he got caught saying bad things about Obama and got kicked out of there. Yeah, the Rolling Stone story with... Michael Hastings. The late great Michael Hastings. Might have. Yeah, well, I don't know about that. But General Macrystal, this tough, hard -nosed general, he was the one who coined the term insurgent math, and he said, what's 10 minus 2?

1:36:57A lot of you might think it's 8, but the answer's 20. When we're talking about insurgents, 10 minus 2 equals 20, because you killed two insurgents, and each one of them had brothers and uncles and nephews and friends, and now they all join up the resistance movement, because they're all so radicalized by the fact that you just killed someone they loved. And this has been the nature of this dynamic from the beginning of it. And so, yeah, it's like just saying that to the concern that if Israel was to grant the Palestinians their freedom, that what if then this led to some swelling in Hamas, I think the truth is that doing what you're doing now is much more likely to increase Hamas or Hamas -like organizations, because you know, it's like credit card debt.

1:37:45It's like basically they keep using their credit card and they're never going to be able to pay off the debt. It's just rising and rising and rising, and your monthly payments keep getting higher and higher, and you're fucked. Yeah, but again, I will say that the one nice example, or the one silver lining to all of this, is that there are so many examples throughout the world where things were so off. I mean, you just never could have imagined that like Germany could live right there in Europe next to all these countries. They just went to two world wars with each other. You know what I mean? But they do.

1:38:18They travel by train to visit each other. Yeah, that's right. And everyone's friends. Dude, I went last year and did like stand up in a, I went to London and then you get on like a 45 -minute flight and you go over to Ireland and you're just like, ah, you guys are right next to each other. Everyone's just coming out to the shows and we're having fun. And it's just cool. And like, so there is something beautiful about that where it's in the moment it seems like this could never be solved. But like, that's not necessarily true. The truth is that human, most human beings are incentivized by wanting to live their life and wanting to take care of their family and wanting to, you know what I mean?

1:38:58And if given an option to do that, rather than losing their sons in war, a lot of times they'll choose that. But in order for that to happen, look, Israel has all of the power. And the Palestinian people have virtually not. The only thing they have the power to do is to, you know, I guess, support these acts of terrorism which are essentially like celebrating losing. It's so sick and dark that you're like, ah -ha, we'll kill a few of your people and then get way more of our people killed than you. It's just like, that's the only thing they have. Aside from that, every peaceful effort that they make ends up being violently suppressed.

1:39:41And Israel has all of the power. And in order to get to that step, it's on the ones with the power have to make some concessions. And the only way to get there is for Israel to like, at least get back on some path toward like, hey, we are going to give you like your sovereignty at some point. Well, there was some recent discussion of rebuilding Gaza, where they were talking about what they could do for that area. Once they rebuild it. What's the plan on that? Well, there's been a lot of different things floated out. And of course, Israel is always kind of talking out of both sides of their mouth.

1:40:18So like on one moment, they'll be like, we just want Hamas. We just have to get Hamas out of there. And then they'll be like, well, we really do think that every country should take in a fair share of the Gaza people. Like they're floating out the idea of just cleansing the entire area. I know that the the UN, I think recently said that it would take 80 years to rebuild Gaza. And I don't know if that, I don't trust UN numbers exactly. Rebuilding Gaza to cost 50 billion over two decades. Well, someone just got paid. Well, right, exactly. So what's the real thing? It's also a thing, right? But nobody.

1:40:53Rebuilding is very profitable. Well, that's for sure. Yeah. Oh, there's money to be made in the destruction. There's money to be made in the rebuilding. And people will make that money. But I think that the truth is that Israel has not at all laid out what the endgame of this is other than this assertion that we must get rid of Hamas entirely, even though US and Israeli intelligence have both said that that's impossible. It's not an achievable task. Hamas is popping back up in the areas that they've already leveled. And they could go into Rafa. I'm sure they can kill some Hamas militants in there.

1:41:29But Hamas or Hamas - Like groups are coming back. How many do you think they've killed so far? No idea. And I don't think they know. And what are the numbers of Hamas? I think they exist. They've claimed that they've... I saw, like at one point, they said they've killed 8 ,000. And then they said 10 ,000, then 14 ,000. I don't know. Honestly, I have no idea what the real number is. And I don't think the Israeli government knows. And I don't think... I think probably the causing health ministry doesn't know either. It's like very difficult work to wall this is all going on. Identify bodies and figure out how many of them are dead and how many of them were joined up with Hamas or weren't.

1:42:13You know, Hamas is also not like... It's not a government. It's not like as if there's... You know, it's not like... Okay, if you were like, say, tracking in America, there was a big explosion, a bunch of people died. And you could look at DNA records and who was enlisted in the military and you could just like match them up against each other. It's not scientific like that. Or at least it's much more primitive than that. So I really wouldn't venture to guess. And I also don't know how accurate the numbers when they say 35 ,000 people have died. It seems within the realm of possibility. It's a lot of people missing, right?

1:42:52And that's part of the problem. Yeah, well, they said the most recent figures that they put out, again, this is the Gaza Health Ministry, which is overseen by Hamas so take that with a grain of salt or whatever. But they said there's like, I think, 10 ,000 who they weren't able to identify. Can you imagine the horror of just walking down those streets? So if there are 10 ,000, how many of them can you smell? You know, I mean, you just look around, you just see wreckage and you smell rotting bodies. Oh, dude, and just the worst things in the world. It must be insane. It must be insane to live there before October 6th when it was already prison to see it now.

1:43:36And it's continuing, right? It's going on right now. Oh, yeah. No, and then imagine, like, imagine, you know, and they're constantly like the defenders of this military campaign will say, oh, they drop warning bombs and they drop leaflets and they tell you, no problem, just leave. But you're talking about people who are like, first of all, they live at least a large percentage of them. Live in a level of poverty that none of us have ever experienced. Just telling people, just leave and head out to the, you know, and it's what people almost have, like, in their mind that, like, what is there, like, some sophisticated refugee camp waiting for them with tents and water and food?

1:44:15Like, no. They're just telling them, like, go. Go out into the desert. Go out into this other place. You have nothing. It's not that easy. Like, you might have little children with you or old people with you. It's not that easy to just leave. And then when they leave, and they go in a rafa, which was supposed to be safe, they go, oh, yeah, now we're, now we're invading rafa. So, leave again. Where do you go, exactly? Who knows? Again, like, look, dude, it's just, again, I just think that, whenever you're talking about these things, when you're talking about, like, inflicting this level of human suffering on a group of people, like, whoever's defending that man, the onus is on you to demonstrate that there's absolutely no other way to do it.

1:44:55And the other reason why I bring up this point all the time about Israel propping up Hamas as this strategy, is that it doesn't that at least change the narrative, because if you just go, which a lot of people are, they'll just be like, well, look, look what happened on October 7th. Look how horrible that is. Nobody could stand for anybody doing that. And therefore Hamas has to go. And so, whatever happens in that process, hey, that's on Hamas. And like that, I guess on some superficial level, I can understand that. But once you know that they were propping up Hamas specifically so that they wouldn't have to give the innocent Palestinians their own state, and now they get to use that group that they propped up as the excuse why they're allowed to just slaughter these people.

1:45:39And it's just like, that's a whole different level of, that's just, no, that's fucked up, man. That's just not, and all these terms get conflated. It'll be like, doesn't Israel have the right to defend itself? Yeah. And you're like, yeah, but see, now you're like manipulating this idea of self -defense, which is a natural right. You could argue the most natural human right is the right to defend, you know, but the right to defense is like, so imagine like me and you were hanging out at your house. And someone like broke into your house and kills me and then points the gun at you and you grab your gun and you kill that guy.

1:46:18You'd be like, well, yeah, you had the right to defend yourself. You know what I mean? Like he's on your property. He broke into your property. He just killed your friend. He's trying to kill you and you're like, no, you have the right to defend yourself. No question. Or you could even argue, right? Say like in the human shield example, he's holding a little baby as he's shooting at me and then you shoot and you hit the baby and him. You could say, hey, that's horrible, but that was on him. But now you're talking about like a guy breaks into your house, shoots and kills me, runs and leaves, retreats back to his house, where you know his wife and his five kids are, and so you blow up the house.

1:46:53And you're like, well, look, I have a right to defend myself. You're like, okay, but now this is a slightly different concept than just like the right of self -defense as we all understand it. This is more like the right to revenge, the right to justice. Which, okay, I'm not, I believe in justice, and I think all of the people involved in October 7th should face justice for what they did, a horrific terrorist attack. But there's a very different question between like defending the country of Israel and enacting justice against those people. If it means like babies get crushed to death and rubble and parents get killed in front of their children and all of the, you know, horror that's been going on.

1:47:34What do you think Hamas thought Israel was going to do? This. I think this was the plan. So you think they wanted Israel to do this? Yeah. I think Hamas doesn't care about Palestinian life. And they like, I think are, I think the goal, the goal in asymmetric warfare is almost always to provoke an overreaction out of your opponent, right? So like Osama bin Laden never thought he could destroy America by taking down the twin towers. But he thought he could lure us into a war in Afghanistan that could bankrupt our country, just like he was trained by the CIA to do with the Soviet Union, right? Like that was kind of the plan.

1:48:20And likewise, I think that Hamas knew that Israel would overreact in this way and look, I mean, look, what's happening? Totally turned global opinion against them and put themselves in more jeopardy than they've ever been in. There's almost nothing that anyone else could have done to Israel that would have put that country in more jeopardy than what they've just done to Gaza. This is like never going away for them. I don't think a lot of Israelis or pro -Israeli Americans have really grappled with this fact. Like you could get into the semantics of arguing whether this is a genocide or not a genocide, which I never get into.

1:48:56By the way, I just don't care about, you know, whether you call it that term or call it a different term. Whatever it is is real. But the fact that the International Court of Justice ruled that this is a plausible genocide is so wild that they ruled that the Jewish state is committing a genocide? Like that's just such a different way of looking at things than all of us grew up with like, no, the Jews were the victims of genocide, not the perpetrators of it. And I am Jewish and I do resent that they've kind of like put that, you know what I mean? Like into the public mind and to some degree, you know, because there's a case to be made for it.

1:49:39But Israel is really playing with fire here. And I think they're in a more precarious position than they've ever been in my lifetime, for sure. Jesus Christ. What do you think happened to that Iranian dude? You know, I think that's just a crash in the fall. I think so. That is kind of my, yeah. Like I've, you know, of course, you always in some weird perverse way want the more exciting story. They don't fly in the fucking fog in a helicopter. How about that? Well, I asked a few of my real smart friends. Like I was calling them a bed. I called Scott Horton earlier today. And I was like, what do you think about this?

1:50:18And he was like, that does seem like bad weather. And like he was like, because they couldn't even like recover it. You know what I mean? Because the weather was so bad. And also it's not taking out the, um, the Iranian president doesn't really do anything anyway. I a tola. Right. It's the religious leader. Yeah, they'll put another, they'll put another president in and it'll be the exact same thing. And I just don't think I, my guess is that it was just bad weather. But I'm totally open to, there might be some evidence that comes out that it was something else. It's always more fun to think it's some secret squirrel shit.

1:50:52Yeah, yeah. I think this one might have just been bad weather though. It turns out it's really not safe to fly a helicopter in bad weather. No, it's fucking terrifying. You can't see fly right into mountains. Yeah, that's not good. No, it's not good. I don't know. Do you fly on helicopters? I have. Yeah, they don't like it. They don't make me feel good. Yeah. The people tell me they're fine. They know how to do it. They're safe. They know how to auto rotate on the way down. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. That thing seems weird. I'm sure that's what they told the Iranian president. Well, I mean, do they have helicopters that can operate through the clouds just like an airplane does?

1:51:31Right, where they know exactly where they are at any given time? I don't know. I have no knowledge on this subject, but I just feel I've never been in a helicopter and I don't want to. It doesn't seem like as sophisticated a method of flying. I just feel like helicopter less life has been going pretty good for me. And I'm just going to keep riding down this path where you don't go in helicopters. Ber has a license and he took me up. Really? Yeah. Yeah, Bill Ber. He's really good. Really good at flying helicopters. I have the handful of times I've been in helicopters with him. We're flying around downtown LA.

1:52:03You can just fly around. That's it's weird. They don't tell you where you can go and not go. I mean, I'm sure they do. But for the most part, once you say you're going to go to a specific area, you can just kind of fly around. Yeah, it's weird. So you have a helicopter because they're below the airplanes. I don't know why. I was already scared of the idea of flying in a helicopter, but flying in a helicopter that's being piloted by Bill Ber. This is the scariest thing in the world to me. Like you just get pissed off at something in the middle of it. And he's like, yeah, like it. You're like, dude, focus, man.

1:52:31No, he's very focused when he flies a helicopter. He's very, very serious about it. But he took me around these buildings and you just flying around buildings in downtown LA. I'm like, this is crazy. You just fly right by these skyscrapers. I mean, that does sound cool. It is cool. But I don't want to do it. It's very, it's kind of beautiful. Like you're just flying around. And it's kind of leisurely because they don't go that fast. Right. It's like just leisurely flying around downtown. I'm like, this is crazy. And then you look at a lot of those buildings on downtown LA. They all have like helicopter landing pads on the roof.

1:53:00Like this is bonkers. Yeah. I mean, like, okay, I understand the appeal from him. That does seem fun. Yeah, it's fun. But then, you know, you don't want to end up like this Iranian guy. Yeah. There's Bill. There. Fucking Bill Burf. Yeah. Oh, fucking show you how to fly. It's helicopter with my fucking... Oh, how dare you wear that paper boy hat when you made fun of me. It made fun of me. Famously set a little rascal set on it. This is like right after that he went and bought the hat. Yeah, it's a good look. Yeah. He's awesome. Him and Tim Dylan are the very best at ranting, like by themselves on a podcast.

1:53:37They're the only podcasts that I listen to where a guy just goes off. 100 % by himself. Bill really by himself. Like the Tim Dylan has a producer that's like a built in one man audience. Right who he kind of plays off of him. Yeah. And he's great. But he's... Even us one person is enough for Tim Dylan. Like Tim Dylan can rant with one person better than anybody on the planet. But he's very smart in the way he does it. Like, have his producer right there. So he's saying funny things for his producer is producers laughing. Right. And then so he'll do that also in podcasts. Same kind of thing. You know.

1:54:11Whereas Burr is just him by himself. Yeah. I'll tell you what. I know like read like someone will just ask him like the most kind of basic question. Yeah. And then like he's just reading their question. And then it just launches him into this thing that like he wasn't even planning on talking about none of this. Right. And then it just launches and it's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Both those guys are the best. Yeah. Dylan's the best though. That just being hilarious about anything by himself. Dude. I mean, I mean, I met Tim like pretty early. He was pretty new when I first met him. And he was definitely like, I mean, he wasn't as, you know, like he didn't have the chops that he has now.

1:54:50He wasn't as polished as he is now. But he was very green. He was brand new. But I remember just like hearing a few of his rants on podcasts. And you were like, this guy is going to be like a force of nature. It's like I almost like it's almost like you see it's like if you were watching like Michael Jordan playing high school or something like that. And then you're like, you just saw like one move and you were like, oh shit. Oh, we're doing that now. All right. All right. Fine. Well, he came. It's such a unique perspective. A gay, right wing guy who used to sell subprime mortgages and did a lot of drugs.

1:55:28I'm not, I'm still not convinced he's gay. I'm convinced he used to sell subprime mortgages. That's that for sure happens. I'm convinced he did a lot of drugs. That I believe. Yeah. That I believe. Gay thing. You know, it's funny because every now and then you'll see it. There's like a moment where you see the gay come out and you're like, oh, there it is. Oh, there it is. You hide it pretty well, Tim. But it's there. Look at the fucking glasses. Oh, my God. And he puts those glasses on. So he's like, he's in his own little world. And you just say the most wild shit about everybody. Did you see the Nancy Pelosi debate with the dude from Mumford?

1:56:04No, I still haven't watched it. I did. I know you asked me if I had seen it. And then my buddy Rob Bernstein who co -hosts my podcast with me. Part of the problem. He was like, dude, you got to watch it. But I just have not. I've been constantly traveling. Yeah, dude. He handed her. Well, I can't believe Nancy Pelosi actually did an Oxford style debate. That just seems ridiculous. Who told her that was a good idea? I don't know. I mean, I guess she thought Winston is just like this fucking musician. He's in a banjo player. What's going on here? Pelosi interrupted by anti -Israeli. A Pelosi reboot to her face during Oxford debate after condemning Americans clouded by guns, gays, God.

1:56:45What? What does that mean? Clouded by guns, gays, God. What does that mean? What does that mean? She's so crazy. Hey, baby, baby. There's guns and gays and gods. Oh my God. Challenging Pelosi's position in the debate about populism. Winston Marshall, a musician who is once a part of Memphredded Sons. Now host the Marshall Matters podcast for the spectators spoke in opposition to the Oxford Union motion that this house believes populism is a threat to democracy. That is a crazy argument that populism is a threat to democracy. I swear to God, whenever you hear people like Nancy Pelosi or Hillary Clinton or any of them use the term democracy, just in your mind substitute what they mean by democracy is our rule over you.

1:57:34In a sense, that's what they mean. It's like, oh yeah, populism is a threat to you guys ruling us. Yes. That's kind of true. That's exactly what she's saying. She just knows she's saying that. I will say there's a really great debate. I believe it was the monk. It was between David from and I'm blanking on his name. Trump's big advisor. Oh man, I'm blanking on his name. I'm usually pretty good with names, guys. But what is the guy who like masterminded Trump's 2016 campus? Yes, Steve Bannon. So Steve Bannon and David from David from was a speech writer for George W. Bush and Steve Bannon debated populism.

1:58:18And the crowd was so hostile to Bannon. And he actually did a very good job in the debate. I highly recommend everyone listen to it if you're interested in this stuff because he basically laid out how the whole Trumpist populist movement is a result of your failures. Like who are you, George W. Bush speech writer, to look at us and say, like, why is there this populism? Gee, I wonder why. Maybe it's because the elites mismanaged everything. And so then there was like a movement that rose up like, hey, these elites are screwing you over. It's populism is, it's not a sign that you have a healthy society.

1:58:57It's a symptom of a cause. You know, it's like, it's in the same way. I don't mean you have talked about this a bunch before. But in the same ways when all these people will be like, you know, we need to have trust in our institutions. And you're like, well, yeah. But we also need institutions that don't lie to us. And when they do lie to us, you can't turn around and say, hey, you have to trust these institutions. Like, no, the problem started with you not being trustworthy. Not with us not trusting you. I think people are starting to understand that better now. I really do. I do too. I think there's been a pretty significant shift towards people being very skeptical about bullshit now.

1:59:36Where it's just, there's going to be a ton of people. And some of these people, by the way, are paid. And this is what I've talked to people recently that are either stream or their YouTube personalities or their Instagram, social media personalities and they have a certain number of followers. And they offer them thousands of dollars to do political posts. Thousands of dollars to talk about specific political issues. Damn it. There's no money in my politics. But you know what crazy that is? So like, what if you have a really big account? Like, what if you have a big account like mine? We have like 19 million followers and someone says, hey, we would love to pay you, you know, to support blah, blah, blah.

2:00:23You know, that is creepy, man. That's legal. That's creepy that you can pay people for their support for a political issue because it's this weird gray area where it's social media engagement. And I'm sure there's also like, there's probably like a few like steps between, like it's not like a campaign is directly paying you. It's like a super pack or a group that was funded by that super pack. And then you could be like, and then you could with a straight face say, I've never taken any money from the Biden campaign. Come on. Yeah. But you did take money from a group who's basically Biden's campaign.

2:00:59Right. Like with the NIH did with gain of function research. We didn't fund any. And nothing to do with it. Oh, this subsidiary. Oh, yeah. This company. Yeah. Yeah. Probably, but it's had nothing to do with it. Yeah. Those guys are crazy. It's just that you're racist. That's right. Wasn't that the best that made you racist? It's crazy. That made you racist. They're so good at that. They're so good at making you whatever, whatever it is. Racist, transphobic, sexist, xenophobic, nationalist. What they're amazing at. And I've kind of like marbled at it like over the last few years, especially when I do this show.

2:01:32I mean, there's other, there's some other shows that I do that are like pretty big shows, but there's just nothing like this show, like the response to it that you get. Especially for me, because I come say like controversial things on the show. And like the response that you get, be accurate. I mean, it's bonkers. Okay. So the probably the biggest one up until, I don't know. But maybe the biggest one was that when we were talking about the war in Ukraine. So this was like a couple of years ago, I guess, was the first time I came on and we were really talking about it, the beginning -ish of the war.

2:02:05And I basically made this whole case for how NATO expansion is basically what provoked this war. And that was Vladimir Putin's big gripe. And I mean, I thought I totally backed it up with like, listen, this is what all of these experts themselves said. You know, not Russian experts. Right. I'm saying American experts, heads of NATO, all of this stuff. And I mean, the reaction I got from Blue Check journalist back when that meant you were a corporate. Journalist. I Joe Scarborough was furious at me because this guy is saying that NATO provoked Vladimir Putin's invasion. Because of course, the New York Times and CNN and all their favorite term was unprovoked.

2:02:43And I don't know by the way if you caught this. And I don't say this just to run a victory lap, but kind of 50 % for that reason. But just late last year, the head of NATO. Straussenberg, Jen Straussenberg or something like that. Norwegian guy. But he just came out and said, and he almost said it like so nonchalantly. He said that Vladimir Putin, before he invaded, asked NATO. He said, if you just put in writing that you won't ever put Ukraine in NATO, I won't invade. But if you don't do that, I'm going to invade. Right. And then he was bragging. He goes, and we refused. We refused to agree to that.

2:03:25And then he was kind of going, and look, now NATO is going to expand even more. So see how stupid Vladimir Putin is. But number one, he just totally admitted that all that thing that everyone was saying was such a controversial statement two years ago that this had anything to do with NATO expansion. And it's like, well, the head of NATO just said that's what the whole thing was about. And that he wouldn't have invaded if he had just agreed to not expand NATO more. And then number two, you're like, oh, so you're just bragging that you didn't do that? So what? Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians have died now.

2:03:51We could have just made an agreement that Ukraine won't be in NATO and not done any of this. That seems better. But when you say it, when I said it two years ago, everyone... Anyway, my point is just that they really act like you're crazy. Yeah, they act like you're an insane person. When you're saying something that you're like, no, this is like very common sense. And clearly true. I don't think they even understand the history of it, even the people that are commentators. A lot of them don't. A lot of them that are jack of all trades, right? They're jack of all trades in regards to their understanding of the economy, international conflict, you know, techist issues.

2:04:31You know what? I sent you this months ago. But this really was kind of eye -opening to me. So there's this guy, Liam Crossgrove, and he works for Greyzone. He's a reporter over there. And so he made... He basically did like this guerrilla journalism type thing where he was going up and asking congressman questions. And then he made like a video where he kind of spliced it together. And there was like, there was some stuff of me on this podcast in the video and some stuff of my guy, Scott Horton, who by the way is great over anti -war .com. His whole team over there is incredible. But so he made this video where he goes up to all these congressmen and congresswomen, and he asks them what they think about Netanyahu's propping up Hamas for all of these years.

2:05:20And to a man, to a woman, all of them just have this deer and headlights look. And they're like, sorry, what reporter are you referring to? I'm sorry, I haven't seen that. I'd be interested to see that, but I haven't seen that. What are you talking about? And you just, right away, none of them know. None of them even have the foggiest idea what you're talking about. And you almost realize that, weirdly, it was even eye -opening to me and I was like, I talk about this stuff all the time. But you just kind of realize where it's like, oh, like, yeah, that's not their job. Their job isn't to like read books about this stuff and read newspaper articles and keep up with what's going.

2:05:59Their job is to fundraise for their next election that they have and to whip votes for this thing that this lobbyist wanted. I know if I get what this lobbyist wanted, he's going to contribute to my campaign. And if I do, it's like, they're in a different world. They're not in the world of actually thinking about this conflict and knowing things and learning more about it. Just like being the president, they have to have a comprehensive understanding of everything. Right, everything. Which is impossible, which is not possible. It's not possible. And the other thing is they're always talking like they're in a position of expertise.

2:06:34One of my favorite interviews was when AOC was talking to that lady and she asked her to expand Israel Palestine. Oh, my God. She just collapsed into herself. It's literally like a fifth grader that didn't study. Yes. And then they asked you about the subject, or you didn't read the book. And then, well, you know, it's about Billy and his dog and really good relationship these dogs. But the crazy thing about that interview is that it's like, okay, so her first comment comes off with total authority. And then one little follow -up question. The question is like, well, what do you mean by that? And then you just see her get weaker and weaker.

2:07:13And then like, well, what do you mean by that? And she's like, I don't know what I'm talking about, man. But she literally goes, I'm really not the expert. She just gave up. But she kept going before she gave up. She tried. And you're supposed to know about that. But if you can talk about that, it's not that hard to educate yourself on it. Oh, no, a little bit at least. I mean, some I have an understanding of the history of the conflict. It is a crazy convoluted one. This is it. This is it. Yeah, yeah. That's what it is. I also think that what people are starting to see, at least in the occupation of Palestine, is just an increasing crisis of humanitarian condition.

2:07:58And that to me is just where I tend to come from on this issue. You use the term the occupation of Palestine. What did you mean by that? Oh, I think what I meant is like the settlements that are increasing. No, no, that's not what the occupation means. Oh, it keeps getting better. Palestine means they're experiencing difficulty and access to their housing and home. Do you think you can expand on that? Yeah, I mean, I think I'd also just, I am not the expert geopolitics on this issue. That lady, by the way, knew exactly what she was doing. Oh, of course. She goes, oh, I'm going to expose this chick.

2:08:40I'm going to expose her. Yeah. And you know, it's great. I kind of agree with AOC's like starting statement. But then you're like, hey, you got to have something here, man. You got to know what you're talking about. Yeah. And also like, this is not, again, this is not the place for that. You have five minutes or whatever you got. Whatever that interview is. There's not a chance that you can lay out the history of this conflict. But there's also chords and all the different. Yes, yes, of course. But there's also this weird thing in corporate media where there's almost like an unspoken, unwritten agreement that like, look, if you just have a few talking points, you can get through an interview and sound really confident in yourself.

2:09:22And sound like, hey, that guy knows what he's talking about, you know? And as long as, say like, if I'm interviewing you, as long as I kind of agree that I'm just going to let you say you're talking points, then you can come out looking really good. But as soon as one like interviewer like this one decides like, no, I'm going to make an example out of you now. And the bee calling on the bush. She did it. She just kept asking her to expand. So what do you mean by that? Yeah, expand. She's not challenging her. She's literally just giving her the easiest of softballs. Yep. And there's nothing there.

2:09:53Yeah, and that's right. And of course, AOC, you know, I don't almost feel bad like, because she was such a like, I think she was in her 20s in this video. Like, she's just, they also kind of knew that like, here's this woman who just is totally not up to the task. Did you see the Marjorie Taylor Greene, the outburst? These are the best of the best ladies and gentlemen. These are our representatives. This is our Jerry Springer government. The AOC call her baby girl. She goes, oh, baby girl. Like, they, they went full. Oh, no, you didn't. You said, bitch, I will fuck you up. They weren't fucking Marjorie Taylor insulting her.

2:10:31She's insulting Marjorie Taylor's body. It was, dude, it was wild. You're like, no, we can, just when you think like, you know, this country's gotten so dumb, you're like, oh, are we actually here? Are we actually here? Do you remember we used to watch those videos of like, Parliament breaking out in other countries, like Kazakhstan or some shit, they'd go, and we'd be like, that could never happen here. Listen to what they said. So she gives her shit chaos on Capitol Hill. Oh, find, see if you can find the raw footage of it. So we know. So she starts talking shit. Marjorie Taylor Greene says, maybe you couldn't read it because you're fake eyelashes.

2:11:07And the other was like, oh, no, you didn't strike that shit from the record. And then she says, yeah, I said she has a blitch body. The Marjorie Taylor. But she did it in the like, the caddy pass of aggressive way. You know, we're here. I don't think you know what you're here for. Well, you don't want to talk about, I think your fake eyelashes are messing up. Oh, and nothing. Hold on, hold on. Listen. Order, Mr. Chairman. That's beneath you. Order, you're getting the order of your committee. Beneath even you. Keep going. So I think we have a point of order. And I would like you to move to take down Ms.

2:11:42Green's words. That is absolutely unacceptable. How dare you alter? I've even lost the feeling. Maybe you lost the feeling. Are your feelings hurt? Her words down. Oh, oh, oh girl. Baby girl. Oh, really? Don't even play. Baby girl. We're going to move. And we're going to take your words down. I second that motion. That's amazing. Don't even play. Okay. Be a free agrees to struck her words. I believe you should apologize. No, no, no, no. Okay, hold on, then after Mr. Perry's you'll be recognized in Mr. Perry. I'm not apologizing. Well, then, you're not apologizing. I am not apologizing. Let's go.

2:12:19I'm just curious. Just to better understand your ruling. If someone on this committee then starts talking about somebody's bleach blonde bad built bush body that would not be engaged in personalities, correct? Solid alliteration. What now? Bleach blonde bad bill bush body. She makes a bunch of dragon. I was thinking, I'm genuinely kind of impressed with the illiteration off the top of the head. That was pretty good. The bleach blonde built bad bill bush body. Yeah, that's not bad. That's not bad. She thought about it for a while. She had a little time. She probably had that in her head. Yeah, a little time.

2:12:55Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right, there was some time there. There was a little time to concoct it. There's a little moment like she goes over to ASC. She's like, whenever you read, I got a good one. I got one here. This is talking shit to each other like they're on Twitter spaces. Like the next line should be like you are not the father. Like it's just the middle of this chaos. That's Jerry Spray. Those are representatives. Yeah. Yeah. That's insanity. I mean other countries have to be laughing at that. Yeah. If I was China, I'd be like, oh my god, this is amazing. How could we have known our plan would work so well?

2:13:28So well. It is what it is really wild. So well. Yeah. This is what this is this is who votes on war. I mean they don't actually get the vote on war if it makes you feel any better. The only thing that gives me hope is that maybe enough competent people will see these folks and go you know what I have to fucking run. Like this is ridiculous. Like this is this is absolutely maybe some successful business people that were on the edge. Yeah. So push them towards the you know just someone who just gets cut the fucking shit. Or even if not running, I do think there's thing like look like Elon Musk buying Twitter.

2:14:06I do think was kind of like a move of kind of like okay. He's not going to run for office. That's probably not his calling in life. But he was like okay. He can't be president. Well that's right. Well he couldn't be president but he could run for something else. But that's not Elon Musk's best use of his abilities. But to buy Twitter and just be like hey look I see what's going on here. We're going to make this one social media platform that isn't in lockstep with all of the other progressive ones. Things like that are really important. So hopefully you could have been born somewhere else and be president in the United States.

2:14:36Running Twitter, SpaceX and Tesla while being president is the most Elon Musk thing. That's true. That he wouldn't even step down. It's not important. I can get it all done. Get it all done in 20 minutes. Have a few meetings. Well I mean. But then if you did that the thing is like that's just what all the conspiracy theorists are fearing about these people coming into the country. They're fearing that the people coming into the country what they're going to do is offer them citizenship in regards to in replacement of military service. So they'll serve the military then become citizens. And then if there's like some sort of a crazy thing breaks out well then you have your immigrant army against the original people that were here when they got here.

2:15:19Yeah. No I mean there's a lot of like there's a lot of concerns with that. Yeah because otherwise the AOC reveals darker intentions behind Marge Taylor Greene. She said that she kind of did this on purpose to derail the actually hearing they were having. Because after that happened they went into chaos. They stopped doing what they were there to do actually and just had like a vote without having any amendments or any more discussion. It's a microcosm what authoritarians do on larger scale. I don't think she's thinking that far ahead. Marge Taylor Greene is a wild lady. I don't think she had a master plan.

2:15:53I think she was just insulting her eyelashes. Yeah she's insulting her. She's just talking shit. I mean I don't know. I wasn't there really. I can't imagine that she's doing this as like some 4D chess move. I don't see her behaving like Netanyahu. I think she's doing a Moss here. I think the simplest explanation is that she just wanted to insult that chick's eyelashes. That's my guess. Because they were talking they were insulting each other right? Because she said you don't know what you're talking about. She said something about you didn't even read it. Like I think you're messing up with your fucking fake eyelashes.

2:16:30Yeah she tried and first saying do you know what we're here for but that was after she was saying that she was derailing it right away. I don't think you know what you're here for. I think your fake eyelashes are messing up what you're reading. So the other girl, what did the other lady say before that? Her. Her cut off that we didn't see in that clip. That's where I was just going like if she maybe she didn't think it was the whole thing but also maybe someone just said before hey if you get a chance to fuck this up go for it. I suppose it's possible. It's possible. It's certainly possible. It's always possible.

2:17:00I just don't. I think that that's just how she behaves. Yeah but at the same time if you were like her and then someone came up to her and was like hey I need you to like mess this up and draw it out she'd be like no problem. That's my special thing. That's my special thing. I can do that for you. I have this honey. Are you telling me to turn this into a shit show? No problem. She might do a bump of coke before she does it. You like crack her neck. Let's go. Oh you got the right bitch for the job on this one I'll tell you. Yeah. You know my favorite guy was that the gay dude who lied about his past completely.

2:17:31Santos. Yeah. And now I just talk shit about everybody. I know. Dude his lies were so crazy too. Like they would be lies like it wasn't even lies like with like a political benefit to it or something. It was just like a lie like it was like you know it's copped and as captain of the volleyball team at Harvard. And they were like not only did you not play volleyball. You never went to Harvard. Like none of this is real. Like just making up things where you're like. None of this. Did you really say that? Did you make that one up? Just making that one up. It was like like that. What did you lie about Jamie?

2:18:01But he's hilarious man. When you hear him interview he's fucking hilarious where he turns on him talking about. How they're all stealing money and this one's the most. This one's the worst. That's great. Well he's a con man in a fucking sea of con man. According to New York Mag he lied about this. Like the donors. Allegedly a lot of donors then use their money to make purchases at Hermes and only fans.

2:18:30He used campaign money for personal travel and Botox. Oh my god. I love this guy. He allegedly lied to collect unemployment benefits. Oh my god. That's so funny. He's charged with, hold on a second. He's charged stealing people's identities and making charges on his own donors credit cards. Wait, where are you going? I'm just going down the list. Yeah, but I'm reading it. Right here. This is where I was. Okay. Hello stealing people's identities and making charges on his own donors credit cards without their authorization. Lying to the FEC and by extension the public about the financial state of his campaign.

2:19:06So Santos falsely inflated the campaigns reported receipts with non -existent loans and contributions that were either fabricators stolen it. So he's just making up money about making up numbers about how much money they had. Stealing people's money. Dude spending campaign contributions on only fans and Botox is just the, I mean, it's hard not to read for that guy. Listen, they're all crooks. Look, the inside trading is off the track. That is, it is so crazy that that's legal. It's so crazy that that's legal. So while that's going on, you're going to get mad. This guy for this. This seems minor.

2:19:41Dude, you look at, no, that's it. And that's what's so kind of like funny about it. Is that like, you think about, um, dude, the Clintons? Okay. Bill and Hillary Clinton have since I was a little kid. I mean, maybe since I'm, basically since I was like four or five years old, was when he was governor in Arkansas. They were, their entire career is they were public servants and they ran a charity. And there were like a hundred million dollars or something like that. Like, wait a minute, huh? Wait a minute. You guys haven't been practicing law any of this time. You haven't been working in some industry where you've made tons of money.

2:20:22You were public servants who make, you know, healthy salaries, but not like that's going to put you in the hundreds of millions of dollars. And you ran a charity. The Clinton Foundation. And now somehow you're, what? Barack and Michelle Obama. They were, they just, he goes into the White House. Look at the house he lives in now. It's like, so you're, every, it's like, there is almost something where everyone turns at Santos because obviously like, that's such a cartoonish, easy, you know, version of it. Yeah. But it is kind of wild that there's so much outrage against this guy. And, you know, it's, it's like in the same sense where like, you know, there'll be like corruption and say like some Eastern European countries.

2:21:01There's corruption where like the level of corruption is like, if you get pulled over by the cop, you could slip him some money and he'll let you go. Now, we don't have that in America, right? Like, you don't, you can't really ever slip a cop money when he pulls you over in America. You may wish you could in certain situations, but you can't really do that. No, I'm not saying it's never happened, but you really can't do that in America. But we have like the prison guard union lobbying to keep mandatory minimums on marijuana. So like, okay, you could look down your nose at this primitive form of corruption, but think about how fucked up that is, you know what I mean?

2:21:39And that's just, all it is is just corruption on a much, much bigger level. But it's legal corruption. Exactly. And everyone just accepts it. It's a wild time, my friend, because people have access to information now that allows them to really see all this stuff. Like the insider trading thing is probably mid and going on forever. But we didn't even hear about it until about a decade ago. Yeah, very rarely came up. I was just kind of accepted that like all of these people are rich. Yeah. And we don't really know where they got their money from. Exactly. Jimmy Carter. And that's one of the things that people loved about Jimmy Carter.

2:22:13As Jimmy Carter to the end, really just maintained a very simple lifestyle, you know, and just never chased money. He never was that guy. He didn't do those crazy speeches where he talks to bankers and makes half a million dollars for some strange reason. And those speeches are wonderful. Because those are the cutest. Those are the cutest ones. He's like, wait a minute, your policies benefited these corporations and then, surprise, surprise, those people after you leave office want to hear you talk so badly. They're willing to fuck the market up. Yeah, well, I'll tell you, this is hundreds of thousands of dollars to come talk.

2:22:49This is also, I think, where there's a flaw. Okay, so this is maybe one of the reasons why I'm a libertarian and not a progressive. I mean, there's many reasons. But one of the things that I think a lot of progressives, I think are like well -intentioned. Their big thing will be like, we got to get the money out of politics. And what they mean by that is that we can't let, you know, say corporations contribute to political campaigns or something like that. Because then, of course, they're just basically buying, you know, corruption. But I think like the flaw, like Jenk Euger and people like that, that's like his big issue, you know, is get the money out of politics.

2:23:25I think the flaw in that is that, yeah, but they always find a way to get, because look, those speeches, that's not contributing to anyone's campaign. And that's not technically rewarding you for bailing out the big banks. It's just you happen to bail out the big banks and then they happen to really want to listen to what you have to say after that. And of course, the book deals warranted. People want to read your book. It's like the idea that you could ever close down on every single loophole. Look, the Saudis weren't allowed to contribute money to Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign, because you're not allowed to do that.

2:23:56But they could give $10 million to the Clinton Foundation. And then once Hillary Clinton lost it, so we are, they stopped donating. Like I don't know, they just stopped being interested in charity, you know? The House of South was really interested in charity for a while there in 2016. And then they stopped being so interested. So essentially, I think like the libertarian view on it is that it's like, no, no, no. Whatever rule you want to have, if you have this much power in Washington, D .C., that power is going to be corrupted. And people will find a way. The only answer is to reduce the power.

2:24:25Yeah, and isn't the charitable foundation thing a sneaky tax way of making money? Oh, yeah, for sure. Because there's a thing about charitable foundations. Like everyone who's like really rich seems to have a foundation. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm not the expert on that or anything else really, but I know that they certainly get a whole bunch of tax breaks that you wouldn't get if you just started a business. Well, not only that, but if they're doing things like Gates, for instance, to promote global health, right? So he gets involved and he makes money of vaccines. So he sells his stock and then starts talking badly about them.

2:25:04Yeah. I mean, that's pretty wild. It's wild stuff. It's wild. It's wild that you can make money like hundreds of millions of dollars while you're running a charitable organization. But if you also think about it like the hundreds of millions of dollars that these guys make off of that is nothing because the legislation that they're passing or the policy that they're pushing is making these special interests hundreds of billions of dollars. Yeah. So if you buy off a politician for 20 million bucks and you get no bid contract that's going to be worth $200 billion to you, that's a pretty good return on investment.

2:25:45There was a article about this particular area of Virginia that's like the most expensive real estate in the country and it's all where the lobbyists live. And I think is it Blinken whose house that they're picketing in front of that they've been essentially there since, see if you'll find it. I think it's Blinken's home that he has some crazy fucking set up there. Some fucking dope ass old school mansion and they're all camping out in front of his house. It's the Palestine free Palestine people and so they've decided to constantly protest in front of his house. Yeah. Anthony Blinken's family is the latest target of Washington's ugliest protest trend.

2:26:25So they just camp out in front of his house and they're pouring blood on the ground. It's a little weird to do with your baby. Stop the genocide in Gaza and so I like this better than just blocking the road. It's definitely better than blocking the road. The blocking the road is the dumbest fucking thing of all time. And you know, I mean, this is what people do if you're involved in war. You know, if you're involved in people dying, welcome to Kibbutz Blinken. Oh, Jesus.

2:26:58Yeah. So I think they've been there like for months, this article from February 16th. Yeah. I think they just they it's a constant encampment and they they've got this thing where they're just going to protest protest in front of this guy's house. I do prefer taking it to the people who are actually somewhat responsible over just kind of inconvenience. Going to Jerry Seinfeld's shows and yelling at them. Yeah. This is at least makes more sense. Yeah. That guy's got to sell that house. You got to get out of Dodge, bro. Yeah. It might be time to leave. Don't worry. I'm sure the market's up. He'll do fine on that house.

2:27:30I'm sure he probably has a couple other houses too. Yeah. Yeah. You probably don't have to stay there. But it really is. Got one of them houses. Got a little spot over there. A little spot over here. It is it is crazy though that they don't like our leaders don't even feel the urge to like kind of not shove it in all of our faces. That there's like that this whole thing is just, you know, it's all just kind of like, oh, how much money can I extract from this pot and get myself wealthy? You don't feel like any sense of, and I will say the one who I like kind of personally resent the most, which maybe is unfair, but is Obama.

2:28:10Because so many of us did kind of buy into at least to some degree the thing he was selling in 2008. And you're like, wait, but you don't feel like you, have you seen pictures of the house he lives in? Well, he's got multiple houses. He's got one in Hawaii. Yeah, but I'm talking about the one in Mark Martin's Vineyard. He's pretty dope. On article about the house that he had, and there's a fun fact about the street that it's on. Oh, yeah. A bunch of Saudis own it, right? At least five houses. Yeah. Also known as Northern Virginia's Gold Coast, the road features opulent homes on large properties perched high above the Potomac with sweeping views.

2:28:44Such a state sell for tens of millions of dollars, as was the case when AOL co -founder Steve Case sold his estate to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia for 43 million in 2018. This must be dope views. Find us a view. Find us a view. Northern Virginia Gold Coast real estate. Let's see what we can get for 50 million, you know? All right. See if you can get for all the fucking Instagram ads that they want you to run for this political party. If you cover the 50, I'll have them the taxes. Let's see what the views look like. Because if it's over the Potomac and they perched high above, it must look insane.

2:29:22Oh, there was a little image back there. If you click images, real estate images, there was one pretty spectacular view in that last thing.

2:29:36Let me see some view. So these are like these old school, like Connecticut style houses, you know, like fucking the great Gatsby, that kind of deal. You know, those, I have a buddy of mine who works in Connecticut and he lives in Connecticut too. But he works at a school where a lot of these people send their kids, these fucking houses are ridiculous. They're old school mansions on these giant properties and they, they all do drugs and fucking fuck each other's wives and go crazy and all the taxes spend all their fucking their real estate holding money and all their stocks and bond money, these are dope ass houses.

2:30:24Look at that. What a view man. They're cool looking houses. Yeah, sure. That must be awesome living there. So that's where all those, but your neighbors are all demons. Yeah, that's surrounded by people that are literally the cause of all the problems of the world. If you're comfortable selling your soul, there's a really nice house in the bedroom party and with lobbyists, whoo, you imagine if you could just like slip in. You know how like the, like the Israelis, they infiltrate Hamas. Imagine you're an Israeli soldier and you've infiltrated Hamas and nobody knows. I'm inside and you're, you're all, you mean, you maybe have to kill a few people with like, let them know you should.

2:31:02I'm sure you have to do something. Probably have to do something. Otherwise, they're not gonna trust you. But imagine if you get like infiltrate lobbyists, do coke with them, party with them, you're like, some fucking dude who holds a sub -shop chain or something like that, you gotta look down. You know, you're also, you're hanging around with these guys and they get comfortable with you. So they're like, they did with Macrystal, like with that embedded reporter. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was Michael Hastings. Yeah. They were at the bar and they just got them talking shit about Obama. No, no, no, no, no, no, the volcano blue.

2:31:33What? There was a volcano in Iceland. So he got stranded there. Oh, right. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I think the volcano in Iceland shut down air travel. So Hastings is embedded with this troop and Macrystal starts talking shit. They get comfortable. Yeah. You can't keep the act up with the reporter around forever. After a few months. And I think also a few weeks, I think also because he was a rolling stone reporter, it was like their guard was down a little bit more like they weren't like, this isn't like a Washington Post or New York Times. He'll probably run some kind of like pop story about this. You know what I mean?

2:32:08And then he like really ran the story. Yeah. And like he used quotes of the guy disparaging Obama. Yeah. And it was forced to resign. And there's something really interesting about that, though, too, just like a little bit of a window into like the lobby. Well, I just mean that there could be generals who are just like, you know, and their private time being like, I have to fuck this guy as bullshit commands. You know what I mean? I'm sure. I'm sure they got a multi -recorded. Yeah. You know, like that wasn't that the thing about the Mossad was Bill Clinton. Was that a story they just came out recently with the Monica Lewisky thing?

2:32:42Oh, yeah. I think I did see something about this, right? Recorded it. Yeah. They recorded them. They're fucking good, man. They're good. And they catch those dirt bags, those dudes that are just like pussy hounds. You get two types of people that want to be president. Warmongers and pussy hounds. That's all you get. And sometimes if you're lucky, you get a pussy hound as well. So warmongers.

2:33:06What's the most part to get one of two? It's almost like, okay, if your dick still works, you'll be a pussy hound. If your dick doesn't still work, then you got to launch rockets to like make up for that. Sometimes. So it's like that it's almost the same impulse. Maybe. But sometimes if you dick works, you're like, hey, don't fuck this up. I'm trying to get late. Yeah. Well, that's what I mean. That's what you probably rather that one. Or sometimes when you're an old man and you don't want to fuck anymore, you're like, look enough already. Just let I want to play golf. Yeah. That's what relaxed going to the sun.

2:33:32Like I'm over it. Stop. Stop. I've had my sex. I've blown up my things. Let's just chill. That's what we need. Yeah. That's the argument that that's what Trump is at this point of his life. Well. Oh, man. I don't know. I don't know either. It's such a weird goddamn situation because everything they throw at him, it just backfires and it just makes them stronger and stronger. I know it's like this case is falling apart. It looks like almost all of them are falling apart. The one in New York though, apparently they thought was the most flimsy, like a lot of legal experts thought it was the most flimsy going into it, but now it's completely falling apart.

2:34:07They have contradictory statements that she made to Bill Maul. And then they also have Michael Cohen just admittedly stole like $30 ,000 from the Trump campaign. So that's not good. The really fascinating one was the, which, that sounds like what Michael Cohen would do. The really interesting one was the FBI with the picture of the top secret classified. Yeah. Tell about that because most people aren't even aware of this. Well, it, it seems that the FBI, you know, when you see the pictures of them on the ground there with all the classified, it's like, oh, that was put there by the FBI. So it's not as if like, it was presented as if, oh, look, this is what Donald Trump was doing.

2:34:48The sheets that said top secret and classified didn't exist before the FBI came along. They put the sheets saying that right. And then they were the documents and then they put pictures of these new things that they put over the documents that said top secret and classified. Then they took a picture. It's very important to just make this distinction because the documents were classified. But they didn't have like, it signs on them like TNT, you know, and it also is, it's seeming more and more like there were several instances where it seems that Donald Trump was constantly being trapped going all the way back to the 2016 campaign.

2:35:29If you remember, there was this famous meeting with the Russian at the Trump tower hotel. But when you actually look into it, what happened was like some Russian woman said she had dirt on Hillary Clinton. They got there to a meeting with her and she had nothing. And then they were all like, okay, whatever. But then the story was, oh, he's conspiring with the Russians. And it seems that, oh, that was a trap to get Donald Trump to do that so that they could make it look like he was conspiring with Russians. And there's just been several things like this over and over again. How about the fact that Hillary Clinton funded the steel dossier?

2:36:02Yeah. That whole thing. And then, you know, so that's amazing. So she found that has happened confirmed, oh, 100%. Let's confirm that the Clinton campaign funded the steel dossier. The prosecutor said that there was so many sheets used that they had to start using handwritten sheets to cover up the classified info. That's what they say. Right. But the thing is, the photographs show that show printed out pieces of paper that say classified in top secret. And those weren't there. They put those there. So it's not that they covered up some of the documents before they took pictures. That makes sense.

2:36:39Isn't that the cover up the information? Could be. But you're taking photographs with pieces of paper that say classified in top secret. It gave an impression of something that was different than what was actually there. It most certainly does because it's like, oh my god, he knew these are classified in top secret. He knew he had these. He did this deceptively. And it's also just the changes. The optics of like look classified and just laying on the floor there like that. Look, it makes sense. If you have to document, okay, this one's classified, this one's top secret. Let's put a piece of paper on it.

2:37:12But as soon as you put the piece of paper on it that says those things and you photograph them, you're saying this is how you found it. Right. Or at least allowing you to deduce that for yourself. You should have to be very specific about these classified in top secret sheets were not a part of the evidence. They were put on top to label that evidence. But they were probably like, you don't have to do that. It just, it looks bad. It looks bad. Whether that classified top secret stuff looks bad. And look, and it's just very clearly for anybody who's like being honest and paying attention. It's just very clear that there's like, there's a political motivation involved here.

2:37:48These guys are trying to hurt Donald Trump's reelection or election campaign. And that in itself is like just so wild. Well, how about the fucking White House press secretary saying she can't comment on because it involves the 2024 presidential election. So she can't comment on Trump's trial because it involves the 2024 presidential election. Which is so ridiculous, you can comment on the election. Your whole job is to comment on the election. Also, you're not supposed to say that that trial. Yes, it's about the fucking election. You're not supposed to say that. DNC Clinton campaign agreed to steal dossier funding fine.

2:38:27They got a fine. Oh, they won 100%. This is what they get fined. They got fined $113 ,000 to settle a federal election commission investigation into whether they violated campaign finance law by misreporting spending on research that eventually became the infamous steel dossier. That is wild. That all that cost them was $113 ,000. Imagine how much that's a real, that's a good deal. PR, you got out of that? How much fucking Trump colluded with Russia talk? You got out of that? That's a good deal. Okay, just be real quick. Yeah, that's a good deal. And then I'll be right, because I talk about this more.

2:39:01Well, we'll be right back. That was the studio where we got in trouble. I got in trouble because I said that if I was talking to a 21 -year -old healthy kid, I wouldn't tell him to take that shot. Wasn't that in here? That wasn't the other one. That was in the Red Rose. The early days, but that might have been our first podcast in Austin. Yeah, probably was. Probably was. Well, it aged pretty goddamn good, Joe. It's pretty goddamn good, didn't it? Yeah. It's crazy to think about it. I swear to God, this is always, especially now, because we've been doing these shows together for so many years that you can go back and look at the things that were so wildly controversial to say then.

2:39:39And they were totally accurate. And they were totally accurate. Now it's not even controversial at all to say. It's just like, oh yeah, that's common sense now. Yeah, most of those things now. And you know, it's just, I think these kind of conversations don't contribute to the public's distrust in mainstream media. They know what the fucking game is now. It's a really interesting statement because that's their argument. You know what I mean? That CNN's argument about why we need to cancel Joe Rogan is because your conversations contribute to the public mistrust. But then my counterargument to that is like, yeah, but that's good.

2:40:16Because no one should trust you. You did that to yourself. Yeah, you guys are a bunch of liars. Yeah, you're a bunch of liars and I should have sued you. I mean, dude, 100%. That's slam dunk. Yeah, I don't want to go to court. I know, I know. Now that's why. I mean, like, I just want to see them. Also, I feel like, like, I know how this game is played out. It's like when you're doing Jiu -Jitsu with someone and you're in the half guard and you're like, I'm getting out of this. I'm getting out of this half guard and I want to mount you. Yeah, well, it did. I mean, look, it totally blew up in their faces and they're done.

2:40:49I mean, after the COVID stuff, I don't see any recovery. I think the corporate media is just going to get less and less influence. It's already, you see how much it's moved over. Look, one of the big ones, they go back to what they, they were trying to do this with the reorganization of CNN. They were trying to get back to hardcore objective journalism without some sort of editorial bias because they said, listen, this is the only way out of this. Yeah, but even that was never really... It was like, hey, let's not be so blatantly anti -Trump and let's get back to just, you know, what they're going to use.

2:41:20Yeah, but still protecting all the powerful people. It's not like there was ever really going to be... Look, you're never going to see a discussion on CNN about how, like, you know, you have these, um, these think tanks in Washington, D .C., who advocate for war and they're funded by weapons companies. Like, what do you think that means? Is that ever ones come up on CNN? Never. And it never well. Do you think that they would ever have a Anderson Cooper, which is brought to you by Pfizer investigation into Pfizer? Of course. That seems unlikely. Of course not. And look, it's not even, again, like, take the example of, say, even Chris Cuomo, right?

2:41:56Who now he's over with, uh, value -tainment with Patrick Bitt David, our boy. And all of a sudden, he's talking about vaccine injuries and Ivermectin and all of this. It's like, well, why is it when you're at CNN, which is, you know, sponsored by the pharmaceutical companies. You don't talk about this. But as soon as you're over here, now it's okay to talk about this. You know, you just, you kind of see it like happen. That it's like, oh, yeah, no, there are, there are, there's, there's humongous power centers in America. There's like the pharmaceutical industry. There's the banking industry. There's the war industry.

2:42:31There's all these big ones. And none of them ever get really questioned in the corporate media. Like, one little action might be questioned every now and then. But the whole system is a whole never gets questioned. You'll never see like a real, um, you'll never see a piece on CNN, um, about like, do we really need a central bank? Does the federal reserve do more good for the American people or does it do more good for Wall Street? You know, like the, that conversation will never come up. It won't because there's too many powerful people who would be, you know, like scared by that. And if that's the case, we're never going to have logical solutions to a real informed measure that we could put into place to fix things.

2:43:15It's not going to happen. Well, but look, I'm, but I'm very encouraged by certain things, right? And I'm there. I'll say Tucker getting fired from Fox News and being bigger than he was on Fox News is really amazing. It's pretty wild. Nothing like that's ever happened before. Also, while that interview that dude who said he blew Obama was like, yo, I forgot to ask him about that. Yeah, he got me with the UFOs. He had an agenda. Goddamn it. He came in and got me where I'm soft right off the bat. Got him with UFO and angel talk. He's like, whoa, this is a good one. It's also pretty funny. Just come in here like, hey, Joe, look, and you ever heard of UFOs before?

2:43:52Yeah, I think of UFOs. Well, I did definitely want to talk to him about that. No, of course he's got this very specific perspective that's very biblical. You know, he's yet a very religious perspective on it. He thinks it's angels and demons, which is really fascinating, you know, that there's good entities and bad entities and that they've always been here. Like, that's a mind -fucking -a -half. Yeah, it sure is. And I don't know, I don't really understand much about it. I also haven't talked to talker about that and I would be interested too, because he will allude to at points like that he's had people inside the government kind of confirm things.

2:44:28So I almost want to ask him, not even on air, just like all fair. Like, okay, so what exactly was? It's one of the craziest things that Bob Lazar said. And he said this way back in the 1980s. He said there's a very bizarre religious aspect to it. And it's even you could find him saying this, because I don't want to paraphrase this. But he said that what they were, he said it's going to sound crazy to say, but the way they have it described is that human beings are vessels for souls that were containers. And that that's why they're interested in us. That were containers of souls. Now I want you to imagine a scenario where AI

2:45:13is ubiquitous in the universe and that this is where intelligent creatures they get to a certain point in their evolution where they create an artificial intelligence and that artificial intelligence is far superior. But in order to do it again on another planet, you kind of have to start the same way you did it on Earth. You got to start with biological organisms that have souls. So if you want to make intelligent life, you got to start out with souls. Because you have to have these creatures that have like these human reward systems about breeding and controlling resources and controlling real estate and territory and that those are the ones that I don't like excramble to innovate and then they give birth to this superior life form.

2:45:59But the only way to do it again somewhere else is you got to do the same thing. So like if you believe that life exists in a similar form all throughout the cosmos that there's kind of similar fish and kind of similar thing, I don't know if that's the case. We have no evidence. But if that's how, what we're seeing in these different galaxies and what we're seeing in these different solar systems that we observe is planets in these Goldilocks zones, if that was the case, that the way to get these things to keep doing it, you need to get, it's the soul. It's the thing inside the living organism that's causing biological evolution, the actually essence of the creature that this thing is what's gonna determine whether or not it hits the innovation level required to achieve artificial intelligence and then that's what they are.

2:46:53So what we are to them is like these little soul containers because they don't have souls anymore. How about that mind -fuck? Listen, it is a mind -fuck. It was an extremely classified document dealing with religion and so now that's that period. But why would there be any classified material dealing with religion? I want to go back to the religion thing. I want you to say it. It just, it's so far out. Your objection has been noted. What does it say? That were containers. That's how supposedly the alien can look at us. That we are nothing but containers. Containers of? Containers. Maybe containers and souls, you can come up with whatever theory you want.

2:47:40There were containers and that's how we're mentioned in the document. That religion was specifically created. So we had some rule and regulations for the soul purpose and not damaging the containers. Yes. Grab your head around that. I mean, there is, we're about five years away from talking to a robot, Dave Smith, that's indesernable from you. And if that thing has quantum computing power and it's fucking metalhead, and it becomes another version of life, a much more superior version of life. And then they keep doing that forever all throughout the cosmos, but the only way to get there. Are you going to start having AI Dave on the podcast instead of me?

2:48:24I want to do my ads for me. I want to do my ads for me. I want to do my ads for me. You still want to do the podcast because you're like, I don't, just reading ads. Well, I don't want AI Joe to do the podcast because AI Joe is going to have to rely on all of my opinions I formed up until now. And I might change them tomorrow. Yeah. I can't have AI Joe assume it's going to know how I think about things because I don't know how I think about things. I like to be open -minded to the point where I'm willing to take into consideration new ways of looking at things, new possibilities. I don't know if AI is going to do that.

2:48:56It's going to be too smart for that. Yeah, maybe. I mean, it is interesting. It is such an interesting thing. But on the point of containers, isn't there something, and I'm literally just kind of thinking out loud as I say this, but there is kind of something where we all do accept to some degree that that's true, that we're kind of container. I mean, like, just in the sense that you've seen a dead body? Well, right. If you look at a dead body, it's like... Tempty. Yeah. You don't look at that. Like, oh, there's that. You're like, no, that's put that in the ground because the person, what we think of is the person is gone.

2:49:27Now, I'm not saying that there's anything too controversial about that statement, like an atheist or a religious person or anyone would kind of agree with that. But it's something we all just kind of take for granted, but if you really think about it, it is like the magic of what makes us us is something that's being contained by this meat shell. And it's different, it's not the same thing. And it's not really anything that we, at least at our level of scientific understanding, can really tangibly measure, like what is it from the reductionist atheist position, like electromagnetic waves in your brain?

2:49:58And then when that goes, it's just a piece of meat. Now, again, it's, I don't know, it's a little bizarre. We don't really understand it. And then the thing is like, okay, if we have souls, do other animals have souls too? And like, sure seems like dogs do. Dogs definitely do. They, there's something, there's a weird relationship that we have with dogs. It's very strange. My dog's basically my son. He's like my dog son. I mean, I think of him like a, like a person. Like he snuggles with me. He's probably more affectionate to me than anybody in my house. Yeah, daughters give you attitude. The son is just cool.

2:50:34They don't snuggle with their dad on the couch. He's just like, when I watch TV, he hops up on top and me and puts his head on my chest and he watches fights with me. He chills with me. He's a golden retriever, right? And those are like also the just friendliest like dogs. They're the most loving and lovable dogs. They're so lovable and he's so enthusiastic. Like we went swimming yesterday and this fucking dog will not, because he's not hot if he's swimming. So he's got crazy endurance. So he just keeps going for an hour and 15 minutes. I threw the ball into the water and he fucking leaps off the deck into the water and gets the ball, it comes back out.

2:51:13Drops that you feel, let's go. Let's go. He's like, you know how like hyped a UFC fighter gets like right before the fight? And like it's like, dude, dogs just have that energy always if you want to do anything. Yeah. And you're just like, you want to go in the car? They're like, let's go. Let's go. We're doing this. Yeah, he goes crazy amazing. I can barely get the collar on him. He's sitting around, circles my sense, they'll do it. Yeah, and he will never stop being enthusiastic about the ball. It's, I get I threw the ball for him this morning. And I always think today's gonna be days tired of this fucking ball was no, it's like, oh, the fucking ball.

2:51:45He's got the ball. Oh, oh, oh, oh. It starts to spit around circles. He jumps up towards it. It's hilarious, like he never loses enthusiasm. There's got to be something that we can learn from that because we just get, we get comfortable with familiarity and we get bored with things. We don't want to do the same thing over and over and over again if it's that simple, like chasing a ball. But the enthusiasm that he had, the first time he chased a ball, he has the exact same, maybe more so because now he knows it's fun. So he can't wait to do it again. But there's something about like, cause dogs are, I think, essentially, like we bred them to be kind of like baby -ish wolves.

2:52:21Like they're wolves that are kind of kept in a perpetual state of immaturity. Almost in a way. Right, cause like I think, oh, well, I think that, but basically I think the quality is that you see in baby wolves. Like a baby wolf will be almost indistinguishable in terms of how they could be domesticated from like a puppy, but it's as they grow older than you're going to be. Right, right. So it's almost like we kind of kept the traits that keep you young because it's the same thing, it's the same thing with having little kids. It's just like they're trying to do to men. Does seem like there's an attempt to kind of domesticate and soften.

2:52:55Yeah, keep men as like 13 year old boys that follow rules. Shut the fuck up. Yeah. Yeah, the wolf thing is really interesting because I am generally opposed to a weakening of a life form for human pleasure. Like that's bizarre that you take a fucking wolf and turn it into Carl over there, but that's what happened. That's what happened. Carl's cute, but he's not much of a wolf. But I love Carl, so like I'm conflicted. Like part of me loves dogs, and the other part of me like I love wolves. I want them to be wolves. Well, there's still our wolves out there. We took those bitch ass wolves that didn't want to hunt and they wanted to come by the fire and we're like, hey, bark for fucking bear comes by, will you?

2:53:40Yeah, throw your bone. And then they made friends. And then the wolves started drooping their ears so that you know, I'm your friend, I'm your buddy. Do you know about the Russian fox experiment? No, they did it in Russia. They did this experiment where they wanted to see how quickly they could change a fox's overall appearance, their behavior. And so what they did was they had these captive foxes. Like through breeding? Yes. Through breeding and natural selection, meaning shooting in the fucking head. So whenever a fox was aggressive in any way, shape or form towards humans, bang, dead. Next one, so they can't breed.

2:54:17So the other ones that breed are like, don't shoot me. And so they probably are pretty aware, you know, through the zeitgeist that these fucking foxes are getting shot, you know, there's like something in the air. There's probably some psychic in the, you know, morphic resonance, something in the field. Let's go, hey, people are getting shot out here. Like you got to be nice to these fucking humans. See that thing he's got in his hand? That thing will kill you with a squeeze of his finger. And so they, over a very short period of time, turned them into completely different animals that had like big eyes, fluffy ears, like ears that fell down and soft, their jaws got smaller.

2:54:55They became more cute. It's, I know, I remember seeing, isn't one of those like famous documentaries about dogs, but I thought this, this always like was very interesting to me, is that they get one of the major differences between wolves and dogs, is that they do this experiment where they'll like, they'll put a piece of meat and it's in a cage, and they, the wolf or dog can't get to it. And the wolf will like bang against the cage and try to get it over and over and over again. We'll just never stop. We'll just never stop doing it. But the dog will try to get it a couple times and then looks to the person.

2:55:31And that's like one of the differences is that it's like been ingrained in dogs that you're also their partner. You know, like they'll look to you and be like, hey buddy, I know you got a few IQ points on me. Any idea how to get this meat out of this here cage and like that's so deep in them. Well, not only that, but the wolf would never think dogs would use the leader, wolf never thinks through the leader. Yeah, yeah, especially an unfixed male wolf. Shut the fuck up, sit. Did you say sit? Who the fuck are you talking to, bitch? Don't you read little word, why didn't you hear it? That's me, motherfucker, I eat people.

2:56:04They had, in the same documentary, I can't remember what it's called, but they did, they had this experiment where people were just trying to raise wolves, like domesticate them from puppies and raise them. And it was interesting to see like, it's as they start to get into like adolescence and stuff. And the wolves would be attached to them because they had raised them since they were little puppies, but you can't train them the way you can train a dog. They're jumping up on the table and knocking everything off and they're not responding to down or hear a boy. That's happening. That's food. I'm gonna eat them.

2:56:31Yeah, yeah, fuck you. Did you see that video that was online today? I think it's El Serido's California. There's a wolf running down the street. No, I didn't see this. Yeah, wild. It's a big boy too, a big wolf running down the street and this guy's driving and his car's like, is that a fucking wolf? Dude, there's a fucking wolf running down the street in El Serido's California. Where is that? I don't know. Somewhere. Somewhere California. I think it's near Redwood or Redlands. It's a, yeah, from a year ago. Oh, is it? Yup, that's it. That's from a year ago. Bro, that's a big -ass wolf in a street.

2:57:08That's a urban street. Look at that. That's a big wolf man. Yeah, sure is. That thing's big. When you see them and you think what would a dog look like there, that's when it really dawns on you how big these things are. It's like 150 pound wolf. I'm guessing. Might be less. Over 100. But it's a run down the street. Like, hey. Yeah, like it's not worried at all. It's like, it's like, it's gonna eat your dog. Yeah, it's like, yeah. It's 100 % gonna eat your dog. Especially if you got a little dog. Bro, little dogs in trouble. Yeah, elite coyotes too, by the way. It's gonna kill them too. There's a weird, I remember reading this book, I believe it was called, Before the Dawn, I believe, by Nicholas Wade.

2:57:48And it's like a book on evolution. And there was a whole chapter about dogs and humans and how we evolved together. But it is this weird thing. Like, so you could look at, say, look at like a Yorkie or something like that, whatever the most. And you could go like, well, look, this thing couldn't survive like a second. It couldn't get its own food for a second. And you'd be like, well, isn't this like a flaw in evolution or something? But then you also realize that you could argue that it's basically one, the evolutionary race because it has this human species that just does all of the work for them.

2:58:18And carries it. Yeah, literally carries it. Cleanes its ass, puts food down for it. And you're like, oh yeah, this did work out pretty well for that thing. Worked out great. It is, it's gonna work out great for men too. Yeah. That's it. No, I don't know, but who gets to be interested? Here's a good question. Would it go back to wolves? So like imagine if there was some sort of apocalyptic scenario, all the power went off. Most human beings are dead, but a lot of dogs survived. I think like, I think, you know, my guess, and this is a totally like, just like, just keep in mind, I'm an idiot. I have no idea what I'm talking about.

2:58:56But I think like, if you're making an argument, would it German shepherd? Would eventually like, if they were just left out of the, would it just breed like the harshest and toughest and most survivors? Maybe not wolf, but you'd get some wolf -like creature that Yorkie isn't gonna make it to generation two. I've seen Yorkies. No, your hawks gonna take that thing away. Yorkies aren't gonna make it, but the dogs that are probably the closest to wolves probably would make it. Yeah, especially in cold climates, right? So now they're outdoors, now huskies. Yeah, yeah. So pretty like Kitas, kind of wolfish, wolf -likeish.

2:59:27Well, you'd come up with some bad -ass version of them that are killers again, that wouldn't be trained. It'd be almost like they're not kept in childhood. They'd become kind of grown -ups again. What is that one crazy Russian dog? I know we've talked about it before. It's this one huge, they use them to fight off wolves. They use them like to protect flocks. Yeah, Caucasian shepherd. Show me some images of the Caucasian shepherd. It's fucking enormous. Look what that thing looks like. So, but show me some images. Okay. They look fucking terrifying. They look like super wolves. It's just like this, look at that giant fucking thing.

3:00:09So that went the other way. Like, they develop something that can fuck wolves up and because they needed something to protect their flocks, they needed someone to protect their sheep and shit. So, look at that size of that fucking thing. Browl, that thing's so huge. I think they're like 200 pounds and they have fur everywhere so they're probably really hard to bite. Look at the size of that thing, where it's hopping on that lady's shoulders. Good lord. So, there's another one, that other one, that the Caucasian, that one I think is even more ferocious. I think, I might be wrong. Yes. Oh, it's effective.

3:00:48Browl, fucking size of that thing, though. Look at the size, even with perspective. Look at that thing. Yeah, these are very ferocious Tibetan mastiffs, yes. What is this thing? I see your Tibetan mastiff. I raise you this cookie. Right, Tibetan mastiffs are another crazy looking animal, too. Dude, that guy, that guy looks like the guy who would have those dogs. Look at that thing. If you're a wolf, you're like, ah, fuck! It's basically the Brock Lesnar of Wolves, you know? Everybody else is a well -to -weight and this motherfucker shows up. Yeah. Yeah, you better heal hook that wolf. Yep, bro, you're done.

3:01:26That thing, you're not even gonna get through all that fur to bite him. Yeah. It's like a lion's mane. It's like literally like there to protect from the cold and bites. It really does look like what the Russians would do with the dog. Of course, that's what you did. Of course. We're making little poodle mixtures over here. The Russians are coming up. You're like, ah, shit, we should've been doing that. Of course, the French made car out there. We should've been doing that this whole time. You're telling me we can't produce munitions like the Russians and our dogs have to fight those dogs when the war goes down.

3:01:58Imagine. Yeah. I think we covered it all, Dave Smith. Anything else? Well, I think that that should save the world for now. This is not. It's a long. It's a process. There's going to be many podcasts before we have to. Do this a thousand times, save the old world. And the new world is going to be unstoppable. That's my fear. Well, I got to tell you, I'm almost at the point with this world where I'm like, ah, let's roll the dice on these new overlords. Well, hopefully things will bounce out. Be much more logical when they're not run by humans. Well, I still, I still believe in humans. I think the, ah, the monopoly, the monopoly of information has broken.

3:02:42Ron Paul will become president within the next 10 years. He will reverse his age. He will. That's right. That's what they do. They just put Ron. No, also it's crazy to do that. If we can get, if we can get Ron Paul young again, then this country's got a good chance. Ron Paul and he's getting on some daily NAD drips and testosterone therapy and you get on the peptides and NMN, you've got to change his vitamin routine. I just do it pretty good. Was he? He's doing pretty good. I mean, I think he's 89, 88, something like that. And very cool here. And he's on top of it. Yeah. And every time, every time his show comes on, it's like, he's like, okay, here's the latest of what's going on in China.

3:03:23And like knows everything. Like he's just read everything about that's happening. Extraordinary. Yes Smith, you're the fucking man. I love you brother. It's always great to talk to you. And stay offline for a couple of days. It's gonna get ugly. Bye everybody.