#2177 - Chris Robinson - The Joe Rogan Experience: Summary & Transcript

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The Joe Rogan Experience - Episode #2177 with Chris Robinson

Podcast Overview Podcast Title: The Joe Rogan Experience Podcast Description: The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.

Episode Title: #2177 - Chris Robinson Episode Description: Chris Robinson, the lead singer and co-founder of the rock band The Black Crowes, discusses the band's critically acclaimed new album "Happiness Bastards," their first in 15 years.

Episode Notes

Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

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2:09The Joe Rogan experience. Shraimed by Dave, Joe Rogan Park, cast by Night, all day. Okay, especially the first season, like 1972 or 3, I think. Columbo. I almost forgot about that show. They used to tell them not to smoke? Well, no, like the character, I could tell they're probably just building up, like you notice that he has a cigar in his hands, the whole series, or every episode. But it's funny that in 1972 people are like, please don't smoke in here. or Mr. Calumbo, you know, Lieutenant Calumbo, he's always being like reprimanded for it. Interesting. I forgot about that. And he's always really, you know, Peter Fox character, he's always like, oh, sorry, and he puts it out always, he's never like upset or anything.

2:54Yeah, he was, that was an interesting character, right? Because he was like this bumbling guy who was actually not, he was kind of setting you up the whole time, letting you underestimate him, acting like, pop, pop, pardon me. Yeah, but another thing. He's always about to leave, but he's like, Oh yeah, he comes back and there's no way people know like Incredible though A static and like the other day I'm watching this episode that Jonathan Demi directed Steven Spielberg I mean like all of these Famous directors start to cut their teeth and TV and on episodic things like that But there's a real tone to it and stuff.

3:30It's cool and the way everyone looked But one other funny thing about it that I've noticed in Columbus but always starts with a murder. And then usually a lot of times in the arc of the story someone shows up to the crime scene. Usually whoever did it or whatever, right? And so, but they're never upset. There's never someone ever said, what happened here? Your uncle's been murdered. Oh, I didn't do it. You know, it gets kinda like I was in starts instead of some dramatic, you know, like, Oh my God, you know, how could this have, you know, no one's even faking, they're just like, okay, well, you're bothering me now, you know.

4:13In cop shows, you can always tell, even SVU, they're always like, I've had enough. Can you guys leave and they leave? I'm like, is that how it goes? I don't know. No. No. It's weird how many of those shows there are where they catch the bad guy. Like that is, it's like something that I guess people with anxiety need to let them feel like if someone is a bad person and they do commit a murder, they're gonna get caught. Like, are the interest in those kind of dark scenarios, you're only interested in them when there's justice at the end? Is that what you're saying? Yeah, because anything nebulous or whatever is like too real, maybe.

4:53Yeah, there's those shows and then there's medical shows. Remember when there was, there was a time where they're like every other fucking show on TV was about a hospital? Yeah, yeah, yeah, and the only one that I really remember is Quincy. So Jack Klugman yelling at everyone all the, you know, the yelling about the sandwich. He's yelling about the blood sample. He's yeah, when we were kids we were a hardcore. We're in, you know, that initial phase of American kind of hardcore punk stuff. Because we would just missed out the like 77, 78, 79. And then there was an episode about the L .A. in and they and Quincy goes to the punk club, don't you see what your kids are doing to yourself with the loud music and the anger, the pills and whatever, you know, he like and there was a thing when when we were kids and there was a song, I forget which band did it, but if you were you were faked if you were a Quincy punk, you know, because they took like the way people looked on Quincy or or whatever, and that instantly became a fake punker.

5:58Yeah, yeah, you're bullshit. When you started out, like, what was the inspirations for your band? What were you guys into? I mean, it's hard to untangle because my dad was a singer. So our dad was a singer. And he was very well, my dad is a kind of a strange guy, in general. a lovely guy, but dynamic to say the least. But he had like a hit in the late 50s called Boom -A -Dip -Dip, like a top 40 kind of record. And a couple of subsequent sort of, rock and roll singles. And he was living in New York and stuff. And then when he, that kind of pales out and then he moves back to Atlanta and he immerses himself in like the folk music scene.

6:48And he was signed to a label called ABC Paramount. So by the time I come along in 66, it's kind of, he's not doing it anymore. What was he doing? He was a schmata guy. He was in a middleman. He was like Willie Lohman, you know. He was in the garment business. My grandfather, Ike Robinson, they were in children's wear. My dad was in women's wear. and then ended later back in Children's Ware. But the one thing around the house that I remember, earliest memories are him, peeling out this guitar and singing folk songs. And just, I don't know, I'm a dyslexic person. And so my, you know what I mean?

7:40So I don't know if that has anything to do with it, but there was something about always singing these songs. it would like open up stuff for me. Almost like being high or not in a psychedelic way, but in a way that it changed the space, you know what I mean? And records started doing that to me very early. And that kind of is where, so it's kind of, we think it's normal. Other kids' dads aren't playing old folk songs at the house that I know, you know? But by the time Rich and I, you know, We're kind of like angst -ridden suburban youth. For some reason, my parents decided to move to the suburbs, financial reasons, general apathy, ready to begin the mound of resentment and regret.

8:29I don't know. But all the things the suburbs represent me. You know what I mean? I would say, for me, there was a television show So do you remember Night Flight on USA Network back in the early days? I remember the name, I don't even remember what it was about. Yeah, it would come on at midnight and it would be concerts and films, it's probably the first time I saw a racer head or a rude boy, the movie about the clash and the kind of western civilization, punk things and new wave things. and I always had an interest in stranger things, you know, and things that weren't normal or, you know, Mr.

9:19Roper on Three's Company or whatever, I ate out of it. And they had a show that came on it two in the morning and it was from Los Angeles called New Wave Theater and that was like huge, huge, being a kid in the suburbs in Georgia where it's still pretty much like that band, all the people that's that band, Alabama, you know, they wear like trucker hats and flannels and like wanna beat you up because you have a Ramones record or something. You know? And that's how it was. You did. So this show was like a real beacon of, you know, my mom was like, oh yeah, it is. Peter Eivers, a very interesting character, Peter Eivers.

10:05Welcome material that served us in many incarnations tonight. They're here as 45 graves. He's a wax. 45. Yeah, so this is what I'm really into. Don Balls is the drummer in 45 grave who was in the germs.

10:24Not a happy childhood amongst them. No, but, well, I don't know, but they definitely made amazing beautiful, cool, outsider art. and you know, I think something that we have a hard time understanding in this day and ages, art that's made because of the visceral interaction with you and other people that has nothing to do with, I'm going to be a big star. Right, right. Some of the things I think, I mean, fuck, I'm like the one of the last,

11:03I mean the black felt it was our duty to never truly give in to the other side. You know what I mean? And kind of understand this us versus them idea, you know what I mean? Or vibe is something that's inspiring and something that is like, you know, I was always interested in counter culture, you know, and anyone, again, that's like why the algorithm maybe isn't as perfect or it never will overtake everything because there's always going to be the one person who's like, I'm going this way. That's not enough for me. You know, the deep dive people. And so we kind of found ourselves in the crosshairs of this kind of stuff.

11:45The cramps, we were in the cramps, the gun club. So, and then REM comes around. Their first record, chronic town. And so my dad and my mom and dad had a lot of records, maybe 250 records, 300 records, you know, which was a lot of records back then. Bluegrass records, you know, Lester Flatneural Scruggs records or Moes Allison records, Jimmy Reed records, Johnny Guitar Watson and then they had, you know, Buffalo Springfield records and Bob Dylan records. I mean, that's a big, I mean, for millions of people but something as a kid that I knew no other kids would go. You guys want to come over and listen to records?

12:29I'm gonna put on the times they are a change. I'd be like, again, it would be a reason to get beat up. You know? But that kind of stuff catapult says into, then punk rock comes along and it's like, oh, it's anyone can do this. You don't have to be, we'll figure it out later, what talent or whatever, you know what I mean? We just wanna plug in and start going, and singing horrible things and trying to be offensive, you know what I mean? Because think about, now people walk around in dead Kennedy's t -shirts and it's like, oh cool. But back then, dead Kennedy's made people like the name of that band, the circle jerks.

13:08Like the names of these bands made people upset. Right. And legitimate rebellion. Yeah, yeah. Instead of, you know, posturing. Exactly. Which is a lot of what's going on today with dead Kennedy's t -shirts. But I mean, I think inevitably anything like that, I mean, Edgar Allan Poe was that in a literary way in the, you know, the tail end of the Victorian age, but now he's just like a thing hanging in some goth kids car, like an air freshener or something. You know what I mean? Yeah. So things get swallowed up culturally. Right. And regurgitated as just as, you know, and it just so happens to dead Kennedy's, I've one of the greatest logos of all time.

13:48But yeah. What's so there's always going to be adherence to the, you know, what most people are interested in and what's popular, and then people that are trying to mimic what's popular so that they can become popular. And then there's always legitimate counterculture where people are just like, I don't vibe with any of this. I'm looking for something else. Yeah, I'm looking for something that's real, something that's raw. And as I think that's going to accelerate with AI music and all this electronic music, and again, as you were saying before, stuff that's sort of created to feed the algorithm.

14:22Yeah. There's strategies to become successful rather than just expression that it resonates with people. Yeah, in a way, I mean, someone took a band like Alan Vega and like Suicide, like someone, the No Wave music in New York in the late 70s. Someone took a chance and said, yeah, I always think about how weird was that, like bringing that into a studio where who was just in here, fucking 38 Special or some shit? You know what I mean? I mean, it's like this or whatever. You know what I mean? I mean, it's a cool thing about early, you know, like the first six pistols record, the clash records are a little different, but even the dead boys or bands like that, like a lot of those early punk records and a lot of the post punk records, those bands, they're not making records trying to sound, you know, oh, I can make a record sound, like I don't give a fuck or something on my garage, man.

15:21You can do anything now with a button and people, and I like low -fi shit too, of course. But back then, there's bands, they're not making low -fi records. They're in just, that's a real band, but with great gear, and people who are making records that we would think are sonically, that's correct. And then you have these punk people in there just like, you can't turn it up all the way what we're doing now. You know what I mean? Wasn't this sort of rebellion out? You guys had like a falling out with ZZ Top right when you were on tour. Wasn't part of it something about corporate involvement? Yeah, we were always, and it's funny I just saw Billy Gibbons a couple weeks ago in London and we've been friends for many years and a massive ZZ Top fan.

16:08I mean, what are those records? Especially the early records. I mean, they just sound delicious. Yeah. I mean, I just, and when, let us say, which one is it, is it Rio Grande? I don't know, one of those records where you open it and there's like a giant play to Mexican food, like growing up in Atlanta, like that was, I didn't know what that, you know what I mean? Like you could get that, you know? We had barbecue and we had soul food, you know, we have our own regional culinary identity, but to see stuff like that, I was like, wow, I gotta try that, you know what I mean? But no, we, I don't even know if ZZ Top, where they were in their career, if they knew anything that was going on about these guys that were the opening band.

16:54Except for the fact that, you know, in the music business at that time, when you're still selling records and you're selling 250 ,000 records every week or whatever for a couple of years, it starts to be kooky when it was a thing. But they were sponsored by Miller Lite. And I just got into this thing. So we'd go on stage and do our thing. And there's big Miller Lite posters all over the state or whatever. And I got in my little troublemaker mind, we're the black crows. No one gives us money. We don't drink this beer. No one gives us fucking money. I'm standing under this sign because I have to be here tonight, but I want you to know that no fucking beer company sponsors are Music no one owns us no one you don't have any ideas These naive sort of Thing about like I don't know and we my brother and I talk about it a lot and as we've gotten older and especially since we put the band back together these last few years and have been in a really positive place and a really good place.

18:07I realized like, you know, part of that that we were involved in, we believed in like, as if rock, what we feel is really the true essence of rock and roll. It's like, I, I, I describe it as like the movie quest for fire. You know, when they have to keep the fire burning in that little thing and they're going to cross the swamp and they don't want the Neanderthals to get it or whatever. That's kind of how we felt in a weird way about everything that was out in, you know, one minute you're in control. Your kids were writing songs. We're in control of that. I'm in control of like this is what we're doing.

18:46This is how we look. This is what we are. And then you're in a grown -up world and you've sold, you've made people tens of millions of dollars. And I'm hardly a savvy business person. I never could be. I never would be. It wasn't in the cards for me. And so part of our like being hard about it or being difficult, not being compliant, was trying to in our minds keep this pure thing. You know what I mean? And the way that still is part of what we are today. How old were you guys back then? Oh, in the summer of 89, Rich was 18. I was 23 when we made our first record. Yeah, just a young rebel. Well, you know, the other thing is is rock, you know, you remember rock and roll was culturally and socially its place and its importance and it's reverence was a lot different than today.

19:55You know, I think, it's one thing I think it's cool about hip -hop music is the hip -hop stars have taken over the that kind of attitude. Yes.

20:07Which I, when I see their fashion and I see, you know, I mean, there's lots of hip -hop's not one thing, of course. And I'm 57. I like what I like. You know, I like old records anyway. But when I hear new things that I like, And I'm like, okay, so they're singing about drugs. They're singing about sex. And they're singing about, maybe I can't really identify with the violence of poverty and stuff. You know what I mean? The extreme nature of some of it. But that's another form of rebellion as well. Yeah, and it's an hip hop itself is an interesting art form because there's not a push to popify it.

20:52You know, like the hardcore hip -hop artists are very successful. The lyrics are rough. You know, they're very hard -edged lyrics, but yet these are the lyrics that get millions and millions of views. You can't even say millions of sold albums anymore, because that's how to be the weirdest thing to watch the sale of albums evaporate. Not just the sale, you're absolutely correct. Not just the sale, but the meaning of a record. Again, in the big scheme of things, the record business isn't as old as, say, the writing or whatever. But in the way that we would listen to music, and there was a company that would find talent and put that whole thing.

21:36But yeah, making a record and saying, okay, we're songwriters. This is what we've been working on. This is our craft and this is our talent and our poetry and this is what we want to say. Now it's like an album, you know what I mean? I personally think that it's still an important medium and I've yet to give up on it. You know what I mean? I mean, if they said, you know, you know what I mean? What am I supposed to, that's what I've always, that's what Rich and I've always done. We write songs. It was one of the only things, again, the way we could experience the world was through that, because he's, you know, as crazy as me, just doesn't talk as much, you know.

22:30Not crazy, but I mean different, you know, artists, you know. I think of resonates with a lot of people which is why there's this resurgence of vinyl, right? Like people still want to listen to actual vinyl. They still want to see an actual album, you know? I agree. And there's a lot of like looking at that. There's a lot of reminiscing from people that have like my age and your age that were around when these things were the way you consume music. You would be so grateful. I've been buying records as I was 12 years old, you know what I mean? Yeah. And it was weird maybe that's because my mom and dad had a lot of records.

23:04but you know my wife and I we just moved just around the block in LA and we've been together seven years but we kept our records separate I don't know we have thousands and thousands I just put four thousand records in storage because we don't have space for that wow and but I'm like but it's funny because No matter what, I see a record store I'm going in. And I can, you know, after however many years of buying records, I know what I'm looking for. And I don't buy records online very much. I still like to. I don't know. I like to, I'm like a kid. When I, if I've been looking for something and I see it, I'm like, I get a shot of like endorphins.

23:54I'm like, you know what I mean? I'm looking around, like I don't know anybody you know. Yeah. It's weird, it's geeky stuff, it's nerd stuff. But the record store was really important to me as a young person and a musician because before you could go on your phone or before the algorithm, whatever, like there's another person that looks cool. Like, oh, you know what I mean? Like they have Chelsea boots on, or like a cool band T -shirt. And the suburbs back in the 80s, it was like, you know what I mean? if you saw someone you took the chance to be like when you'd go to their house and look through their records, you know what I mean and It's funny that's still that way, you know what I mean?

24:38I have so many friends in my life and we're friends because of records, you know what I mean? And it's like my wife and I DJ all the time in LA and we go to New York and we carry our records around you DJ like yeah Like we have that my wife's name is Camille So we have the best DJ name ever the captain in Camille

24:59We do all, yeah, concerts and bars and parties and gigs and stuff. Really? When did you start doing that? DJing. I started like, well, back in the 80s, everyone used to take a turn playing records at the pizza place. They had two turntables called Filini's in Atlanta where all the, as my dad referred to them dirt bags and low lives hung out, everyone in a band, of course. But then in the early 2000s, a friend of mine that worked at the great record store, other music in New York, my friend Michael, we started doing these nights of playing like a lot of weird psych folk as a kind of genre. And we both love those records and we called that, we called Guru's galore.

25:49And yeah, and just when I wasn't doing the Black Crosiad this band called the CRB, we were like a little psychedelic, folk rock, a little group that toured around and made a bunch of records. But our, we played two sets tonight. So it was kind of like grateful dead model, like very heady, trippy. So, but the CRB, and especially in California, We always had friends DJ the shows would doors open till after the show and in between sets playing records I don't know she's something we've always done in my wife used to DJ before I met her and stuff so So just just something you and joy. We either way if I could make if I could make money doing it I would never do it if I if me and Camille could just play records I would be the happiest person to you would stop performing no, I'm kidding I love singing, I love performing.

26:45I love being in a band, you know what I mean? I love, it's changed a lot, like anything else and travel and everything, but I've probably personally, it's yet to beat the adventure out of me, you know what I mean? You never know. Same thing about why I could go online and buy whatever book or record I want right now. Anything, almost anything you can imagine, you know? is available. It's available. But, you know, I know when I'm in Denver, I'm going to this certain bookstore and I know that they have really curated things in there that I'm looking for. I can wander into, you know, you never know who you're going to meet, you never know what you're going to eat.

27:29You know what I mean? The laughs and the, you know, it's still a lot of stuff out there for someone like me, a lot of stimuli. Real experiences. Yeah, they're good and human. Yeah, human experiences. Yeah. I mean, that is what live music and live performances all about, right? I mean, music is great. Live music is something really special. I tell you, the pandemic was weird for the world. And it was, you know, for artists and musicians, we had, you know, no one's, no government bailout for the guy who, you know, is playing guitar or whatever. But it's hard as it was, one of the worst parts of it to me was not just being able to do what we do, but not going to see bands.

28:17You know what I mean? I have a label called Silver Arrow and we've been doing this for a few years. The Black Cruise Records come out on Silver Arrow, it's a little different, but I'm always going to see bands. You know what I mean? We go whether it's the Rolling Stones or whether we go see a band at a little club in LA And I'm always looking for new You know things to people that are interesting if I could help them out in their careers A lot of it is with really young artists. I want to put them in the studio I want to give them good experience. I want to give them a great record deal because the it's changed the model But we but to do that you have to go out and get in it You know what I mean?

29:00We always laugh. I'm like is there anyone older here tonight than me? You're looking out there's but you know I mean It's a freaky dude who still goes to see bands. Yeah, well people don't want to let it go and why should they? What should you do? I mean in LA right now is a great time. I mean, there's a lot of good music going on in LA And there's a lot of bars where you know, we know if someone has a it plays great records We'll go listen to them play records, you know, I mean, there's a lot of good record people, bands, there's a lot of cool LAs very alive right now. No kidding. Like what parts of LAs are this happening?

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29:34I mean, it happens all over, but especially more downtown and like to the east. Downtown. I mean, yeah, you have to survive, get again, to the place. Downtown is so fucked up. But that's probably something that adds to the feeling of it. You know what it does? And it's funny, because I had an nostalgic moment about, when we were started talking about, Look, man, don't get me wrong. My parents did the best they could. They're just fucking people too. But part of the other part of adventure and the other part of being interesting and like new wave theater, my mom's like, they all look like mental patients, just like you, you know, like great, you know?

30:11But was to go to downtown Atlanta and 80s was dangerous too, you know, during the crack up at Demac. It was a violent place. And obviously we were white kids from the suburbs, traversing this urban place to get into these little underground clubs to see these bands. That added to it. You know what I mean? It's the trend. And just the aesthetic. I still am an obsessive influence by the beat writers and beat culture. And so for me, like, you know, Jack Kerouac isn't writing about the suburbs. He's writing about the, you know, Mexico City or whatever, you know what I mean? All the Gregory Corso or Alan Ginsburg, all these poets and people are writing about all these experiences that don't seem to be happening in like a neighborhood where they call the house is a five, four in a door.

31:10You know, right. You know what I mean. So a certain angst is cultivated. Yeah. You know, the only thing that could satisfy that would be something that I felt was gritty and real. Well, there's something about, if you can, I mean, I haven't been to downtown L .A. to see music in quite a while, but the last time I went there, I saw Gary Clark Jr. and Honey Honey at this very small place with maybe there was like 200 people in there and took my daughter and it was like a late show on a Monday night, like 1130. And here we're seeing Gary Clark Jr. and Honey Honey play a cover of Midnight Rider. And it just felt so special because there was no one there.

31:56And you survived. And you survived. And you get out of here. Where's the car? It's a fun guy out here. But you know what's weird about that? And I get it. and we won't, but haven't, I spend a lot of my time reading. I read a lot of varied materials. And one thing that comes up is humans are dangerous. And places where there's a shit ton of them are usually pretty gross at dangerous. Not just a numbers thing, right? It's totally numbers thing. It's other things, itles as well. Sure. They are hard for us to deal with and look, if we're lucky enough to be walking upright and some how mentally stable or whatever, right?

32:40But, but you're, but I think cities have always been dangerous places. Certainly, yeah. Ancient Rome was a dangerous place. Oh yeah. You know what I mean? I mean, it was so wild, we were just in Sicily and we went to Palermo for the day and it was I've ever been to Polar. Wild. Yeah. That city is like an electric wire that's got sparks shooting out of it. You can't get a hold of it. It's my grandfather's from. Yeah. On Polaro. Yeah. When we went to Italy, one of the most interesting pilots. Is this water? Yes. Yes. In this coffee, in this, if you want to. Cheers. One of the most interesting things is, just Italy in general is like, every time I go there, I'm like, maybe I should live like this.

33:26Like they fucking know how to relax. Yeah, it does. People know how to relax. Like with the way they sit down and eat, no one sits down and eat for 40 minutes. You sit down and eat for two hours. French people have a dialled in pretty good. They do. They do. They do as well. And they have pastis, which is the, you know. What is pastis? Pastis is a, it's a, apriti from the south of France. You ever see it says Ricard, Marseille. Marseille is famous for pastis. It's all Mediterranean cultures have an aniset -based drink, Italian salsambuca, the Greeks have, Uzo, Arata and Lebanese people, and there's all sorts of them.

34:06In the south of France, they drink one that's a little more sophisticated and a lot more herbs and things in it. And they say, you always know in France, someone from Marseille, because they always have a pastiche in their hands. It's like, it's a high alcohol level, a lot of sugar, but it's delicious. You put it in ice and dilute it with water and it makes it all this kind of milky color. Mm -hmm, it's genius. Well, you only have a certain amount of time on this planet and they've chosen to live their time in a more relaxed manner, more community -based and just people like to sit around and talk.

34:45Do you think that any of that has to do with embracing a certain middle classness or even lower middle class. You know what I mean? Like the working, you know what I mean? Even in a blue collar way, I think. You know what I'm saying? Where it's here, it seems that's been stripped away from something to be proud of. And let's say it's kind of in a way distortedly proud, you know? The distortion of what that could be. Right, I know what you're saying. Yeah. Well, in here it's supposed to be your main goal is to get to be the type of person that can look down upon that. Yeah, yeah, tell it. Yeah, your goal is not to exist in that and just accept it, that this is life.

35:27That life is, you have money for food, you have money for your house, like you're not well -fitting. No, well, if you look at like, media, like sitcoms from the 70s, whether it's Archie Bunker or whatever, like they're just people with jobs and, even taxi or Barney Miller or whatever, you know what I mean? and now it's, then it turns into full house, where somehow all these people and these kids live in this amazing house and everyone has clean clothes. You know what I mean? It's like, it's no struggle. Yeah, totally. And no, no record, it's not just recognition. I think it's, and it's not celebratory.

36:02It's just like, look, man, this, this doesn't make the man, right? What, my material things don't make me who I am, it's who I am, how I feel, what I, you know, what I've learned. That's a big problem is what we're sold in Western culture. That the goal is to acquire things and to achieve a certain financial status. And then you'll have made it. I get it, pasties doesn't grow on trees. You know what I mean? I gotta pay for that shit. But it's not that expensive. You know what I mean? It's not, there's just a distortion of goals. I mean, when we were kids and I get it, like I said, I made the choice in my life.

36:40If mom and dad, we weren't, you know, we were middle class people. But I made the choice. When I said I'm not going to university, I'm going to be in a band, my dad. That was like the last dollar I ever saw. Not even like, hey, you know what I mean? But I made that choice. That choice wasn't made for me. Right. You know what I mean? And within two years, I'm on the comfort of Rolling Stone magazine. They were fucking around and you know what I mean like selling millions of records. I get I get that you know what I mean It's not lost on me, but it gets back to where we started talking about there will always be a part of me That is making music because it's really Maybe the only place where I'm truly free, you know what I mean?

37:33I have the freedom You know, it's funny. I tell the story. We were on Saturday live two times The second time was in on our second album, Southern Harmony. We went on the show. It was the number one album in America. It was the debut of the number one. Our new single was a song called Sometimes Salvation. We were going to play that. And we were going to play one of our big hit records. And at the time, it was called Remedy. And we had just written this song called Nonfiction. And I was like, let's play Nonfiction. And it's funny because it's different. My brother and I are rich, was like, yeah, fuck it.

38:09You know what I mean? It's a cool song. The guy who ever listened to music guy, he was like, you can't do that. And I was like, well, I mean, we can do what we want, I think. He was mad because we were smoking weed in the dressing room. I'm like, didn't John Belushi OD in the bathroom? I'm like, what are you fucking care? Call the cops. I told him, call the cops. We get arrested and staring at life for smoking weed will be bigger than this. But the guy, now that I'm old, I realize I'm just totally being just horrible like kid, but he goes, you're making a big mistake not playing this single and I said, okay, well here's the deal.

38:48You're on this show next week with some other fucking band and then the next week after that and then the next week after that, well this is my band. So let me make the mistake. I'm not gonna let you tell us what to do. And if it's a mistake, then we'll fucking eat it, won't we? And I'm still here. And where's he? Well, it's funny, so if I told me he has a, I forget his day, I'd read it to him once before he did not like our attitude. He was on a podcast about Sarah and I were something and said we were the worst people he ever dealt with in his entire career there. And I was like, well thank you.

39:25That's funny. The worst how? Because you just didn't listen to him. Because we didn't do what he wanted. That's not what you're supposed to do with artists. Especially when you're young and you're still like, the fire is like so intense. You know what I mean? That's always the problem with the executive mindset versus artistic mindset, right? And you produce your character, who just wants everything to go according to this very specific plan they have laid out. And you're trying to take an artist. And first of all, just trying to take an artist and making them sing one song is kind of crazy, right?

39:55It's like, yeah, I mean, there's, I mean, I think we see that now. You know, we see people are like, I'll do it, I'll do it. I mean, there's someone who's ready to jump up and do anything. And I think that's been a part of showbiz. But that's kind of what we were saying before. I think the talent show thing, the vote for me. Right. You know what? No one was voting for us. Right. We were unvotable. Right. And that was part of the reason that we were drawn to these characters and these people and these other outsiders and these other whatever kind of spectrum we're on or whatever that's different that we were like, you know, music to us represented everything anti -vote for me.

40:42But did it feel weird to transcend that and become mainstream massive? Yes, completely. It's so weird. Like what is the juxtaposition? I mean, it has to be so strange. You're these rebels and then all of a sudden, you're the number one fucking band in the world. And then yeah, and it was tough. It was maybe tougher for me because I was more boots on the ground in the scene and with people and now it's like, especially in the 80s in Atlanta, it was like,

41:15fuck major, anyone signs with a major label man, and fucked down, you know what I mean? And I'm like, yeah, you know, that power to the people or whatever. And then it's like you're on MTV 30 times a day. And between fucking Toyota commercials and Snapple or whatever, you know what I mean? So, and it's weird because our politics are so in line with so many of the like the alternative politics of music, the way, you know, that would later that grunge or whatever. So, you know, I'm the same age as all of the grunge bands, but I don't exist in the 90s in the same way. We weren't, you know what I mean?

41:54Right, right, right, right. Because we were doing something. But it is funny, like, what's, you know, people say, well, Kirk, no fucking label is signing Kirk Cobain today. But as a matter of fact, Kirk and our generation of people were talking about compliance and defiance. You're making a mistake, fuck it. It's my mistake to make it's my band. It's my art and people met we met and my kind of generator It's not about being old but now I think there's so much compliance. Okay Yeah, I don't want to cause any trouble at the record label This is we're all distorted right now with social media and all the different avenues for people to get attention and to get famous It's so easy.

42:35I shouldn't say it's easy because it's rare but common so it's like it's more It's more highlighted which way you can go to achieve success. But do you remember that famous time where Kurt Cobain and Nirvana were playing and they were forcing them to lip sync? Yeah, yeah. And so what did Kurt do? Did he start reading out of a book or something like that? Like he did a bunch of wild things. Like wild, yeah, yeah, of course. I mean, see if you could find that Jamie because it's kind of hilarious. Yeah, I know what you did. Nobody did that at the time. And they were telling them, no, no, you can't play live.

43:10Yeah, here it is. Set the performance in the recent single smells like teen spirit, the British music chart television program top of the pops. Time to show the policy requiring artists to sing live vocals over pre -recorded backtracks. As you would expect, Kirk O 'Banley's bandmates would not let this go without having some fun. So they started fucking around in the middle of the song. The role was also one of the greatest middle fingers to live performances ever. The band literally made its own shred video. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, because you got to sing the live vocal over the track. Yeah, so you started fucking around and coming up with new love.

43:43It's great. Yeah. I mean, we loved the replacements, you know, that was like a band like, they're being on Saturday Live was a disaster. But we thought, that's our band, you know, I remember every fucking person that we knew in Atlanta that Saturday night that the replacements came on and made in TV on Saturday Live. We all were at parties and watching it and getting completely ship phase. Watching they like shave their eyebrows off and shit and we're rolling around and change clothes. And people were like, oh dear, you know, we were like, yeah, cheering it on. That's how you, that's it. Isn't that part of one of the goals is to be that big of a painting the ass to the, and who are you being a painting has to, but some authority.

44:31Something that says you can't do that or this is the way it goes and that changes, you know, but I think as a youth That's definitely something I'm not feeling with a lot of bands I mean I think it's there in like the punk scene and and stuff like that, but But they're not they're not getting access to them You know green the green day is still that way I feel the carrot is still dangled right in front of everybody's face is so close now You know a special with people that make it independently through YouTube and TikTok and all these different venues. There's just so many different ways that someone could become massively successful now.

45:06I'd see this is where I become the time traveler. I am from the last century. I get it. I find, I don't, you know, I think a guy smashing his nuts on a rail on a skateboard is as funny as anyone, but I've seen it. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's not like, you know what I mean? It's not like Steve Cougat or something. You know what I mean? Like craft and like subtext and like all this other weird cerebral stuff with comedy or whatever. I just don't, I will never, it's just me as well. The things that I, the cinema that I enjoy, the books I read, the records that I listen to. There is all of them.

45:53If there's one thing in common, there's a level of craft. This is a difference between having, it's a difference in having a fine meal at a very nice restaurant versus eating garbage. Yeah. Eating tasty garbage and TikTok is tasty garbage. Yeah. You're right. That's absolutely, I've never thought about it. It's bad for you and you can't put it down and you keep going to it and you over -consume it. And it leaves when you do, when it's just visual, you don't get a big stain on your shirt. But you get a stain on it. I think you get a stain on your brain. Yeah, I really do. I do I think so much of what's going on today like even if I just Waste 10 minutes scrolling through TikTok when it's over.

46:32I just feel like confused like what am I doing? Like why am I fucking paying attention? I don't I don't have any I never had my I never did any of that You know Facebook Twitter nothing. No. I mean the band has one I guess but that's perfect I don't personally. Good. I never tweeted or any of it. Good for you. And it's funny, my phone, I'm still this way. You want to, my best friends, the three or four people in the world that I'm super, super close to people, we talk on the phone. Yeah. Oh yeah. I love talking on the phone. For hours. You know what I mean about whatever. So I get it, but I don't.

47:14Yeah, I'm one of those older. I know I just well you developed in a different time and this time is fucking bizarre I can't imagine spending your life grown -ass people Spinning all of their time playing video games. That's a real thing. Well, at least that's exciting It is but yeah video games are some video is a give you a shock Now some video games are so immersive man You have 3d sound and incredible graphics running through corridors and people are chasing you it's very exciting. It hits all of your dopamine receptors and fires up. I mean, video games are pretty fucking amazing now. But it's just the world that we're living in today is it's not designed for human beings.

47:58It's designed to capture human beings, capture your attention. It's not, it's not like if you're spending your time going from a coffee shop to a restaurant to a bookstore to a record store, to a live concert. Mizzou! Yeah, to an art gallery. These are human experiences. These are human experiences. But spending your time arguing with people on Twitter all day, like nothing is more depressing to me than seeing old rock stars argue about politics on Twitter. It is so goddamn depressing watching rock stars virtue signal and attacking people personally for having different political beliefs. And then looking at their timeline and realizing These poor fucks are addicted to this shit and they're doing this five, six hours every day.

48:43Get off my lawn! Yeah, it's get off my lawn. Get off my lawn! I mean, you know, it's fucking rock stars. It's like, good Lord, man. Do you have friends? Like, get out. Get out of the house. Stop doing this. We just, you know, it's funny. We were gone for three months. We did the states on this latest tour. We played a lot of new songs from our latest record. It was amazing. And then we finished in Europe and my wife and I stayed and Sicily and went back to London at the end and I've been doing it for 35 years of that you know 1990 first time I go to Europe and it's still like I don't care 35 years it's a lot of shows.

49:27I don't care if I wake up when I'm tired and we have friends all over the place Which is a beautiful thing friends in Amsterdam friends in Paris friends in London friends in Madrid friends in this Germany, whatever. But we're constantly outdoing. You know what I mean? There's no way we're not hitting the town in any town and finding what it has that makes maybe it unique or special, whether that's tastes, salt, touch, or whatever. I mean, it sounds silly, but like I said before, it's adventure. There's still adventure in the world, and I'm not talking about jumping out of an airplane adventure or you know that just stimuli.

50:05I think it's cognitive nutrition. I think it's actually good for you to experience different cultures and see how people hang out and see the restaurants and see you know what. And you see everyone's doing the same shit. You know they just styling it a little different. Doing it in a different way but it flavors your understanding of human beings. That's why my very, very special place, the thing that I love almost more than any other thing is Jamaica. Really? I was lucky enough to have a dear friend introduce me to Jamaica almost 30 years ago. And I have friends there and I have a whole life there that has nothing to do with anything other than Jamaica's shit.

50:52And I go to the country and like we like have like a country kind of life there, you know about ocean and No resorts, you know the food there It's fucking amazing amazing food in Jamaica Jamaican food is so delicious And you have to get out there and eat it and they have like anything else, you know the fruits there the vegetables there the seafood and And you know they say in Jamaica that the goat and Jamaica only has one bad day It's not even a whole bad day. It's just a quick moment, one bad moment, and that's a wrap. One bad moment and the rest we're all happy with. Yeah, and the rest everyone's eating it.

51:34Yeah, that's one of the things I'd love to about Anthony Bourdain show, that he would go and really immerse himself in these cultures and eat their food and hang out with their chefs and hang out with the people and get toured. You know, someone would take him on a tour around the town. You know what happened to? Sometimes he would be tired. in hungover. And most of the time. But again, I get it man, everyone has a tough thing. But it's like, oh dear, I don't know. I better get this. I'm like, okay. If you enjoy what you're doing, being tires on that bad. If you enjoy what you're doing, it's like, so what?

52:08Just to get up, have a coffee, let's go. And I bullshit you not. If for some reason I had to get a quick 20, 25 in, I could curl up right there and do it and you wouldn't even know I was here. I believe you like expert That's 35 years of big on the road knowing how to power now. I got to get I got to go down I'm gonna like be in it like in an intersection like you know way to get going around with my pants down by my ankles I've learned how to sleep instantly on planes. I get on a plane and almost always on alcohol me too I know I every single person I'm traveling with yeah Yeah, like how's he especially my wife?

52:46She's like what? I just fell asleep that quick. Even when I'd Jamaican dog in my lap, we brought it when my wife and I were married in Jamaica. And we have a little street dog that we brought back. Oh, that's cool. Bami Longfays. Yeah, it's like Bami, she's 35 pounds, but I can even sleep with my Jamaican street dog on my lap. That's cool. So Jamaica's your spot, huh? And they just got hit very hard with this hurricane. So my friends are okay and stuff are there. Everyone's really shookin' up over at Enjemyka. Oh, it's scary, shit, man. And they haven't had something like that since 2007, and this was worse.

53:24I saw a live footage of it, some live cell phone footage of it. It just, unless you've experienced that live, when you're around the sky, and the sky becomes an angry monster, and they're everywhere around you's dangerous, and the winds are 120 miles an hour, and just like, it's so humbling. I've never, I mean, I was in a tornado in Atlanta in the early 70s and that was, I mean, I was probably too young to be like traumatized, but I remember it, my feeling, my parents trauma about this thing going over our house or whatever. Oh, it's fucking terrifying shit, man. When it was over though, when you're a kid, it was like amazing.

54:01Like the whole world was one big pine sap jungle gym. I mean, for weeks, we were just, Because you're just climbing in all the fallen trees and my dad had some old Pontiac And that thing was like a you in the car some giant pine trees smash Wow So it was like a surrealist thing too as a kid you know like wow everything's been shaken up Yeah, it's also a lesson in the temporary nature of things you can look out and think this is my lawn This is where the cars park. This is how things are and then all of a sudden the sky's like not today bitch Yeah, it's throw a tree through your fucking house. What was that commercial in the 70s, mother earth gets angry with it?

54:39Remember that it was like shampoo or something. But it was like, oh, there was their catch phrase. And then it would be like, you know what I mean? Oh yeah, I remember that. I think it might be shampoo or something. Something stupid like that. But it's true, you know what I mean? You have to do it. I mean, shit, fuck. Katrina is still something like, you know, I love New Orleans as one of the most special cities in the world. And it's still amazing. It's still vibrant, dynamic, alive. But I think the scars of that place are still there. I mean, that was devastating. Brutal. Yeah, unbelievably brutal.

55:22I mean, when hurricanes hit places and devastate them, it takes decades for them to recover, especially without aid. And then sometimes it's like the people that are there, they just don't want to do it anymore. It's like when you realize you're in a place that this happens and there's other places where this doesn't happen You just get the fuck out you know But there's a humbling of being attached to nature in that way that I think like I grew up in Boston and There's something to the people that live up there that understand that every winter It's gonna get so cold that you could die outside.

55:52Right. That's a that's a reality that no one in LA experiences Because in LA, it's like earthquakes, fire floods, zombie apocalypse. I get a little bit of that, but you can kind of get away from that. It's not going to overcome your entire city. You can build a very high fence and have the state of the security system. The fires are wild. I was evacuated three times living in LA. Because we were in the valley. Three separate times. The last time the two houses across the street from my house burnt to the ground. It was wild. It's just wild going through your old neighborhood and seeing just house after house like there's 40 houses in our neighborhood that were Burnt to the ground.

56:30We were in Marin County, Northern California and out in a place called Lagunitas and Once this is four or five summers ago and we just you know kept shit in the car guitars, you know, there's one guitar I just can't live without some picture. You know, we just kept both our cars filled because you're out You know just ashes falling in the yard Yeah, and scary. Well, it's when it goes bad, it goes real bad. I was filming Fear Factor once in, it was about an hour and a half away from LA. And the fires get so bad, we had to stop shooting and drive home. And on the way home, we were off the five freeway.

57:11And on the way home, the entire right side of the highway for an hour was in flames. like completely inflames like a Lord of the Rings movie. Like you're waiting for demons to ride horses over the top of the mountains. It was, but there's something about those kind of scenes that's like, it puts you back in check. It lets like, hey man, like maybe the things you're concentrating on aren't all that important for real. I think it also touches us in our animalistic DNA of like still being that person, you know, these people, again, it's quest for fire. Being these people who are really not just completely immersed in their environment as well from survival and sustenance and everything.

58:01Yeah. That it's still like in the way, I guess, you know, there's an instinctive thing in those moments that has to be the exact same chemical reaction in every human being. in any expansive time that we've been like this. Yeah, well we were insistently, I guess there was an eruption there recently. There's one today or last night. Yeah, that's right, I was seeing it on the news, but when we were there, there's, we were near this one island that had a constant eruption at nighttime. You could see the red at the top of the mountain, just a little bit of red, like bubbling up off the top of the mountain.

58:41It was so fucking cool. I've never really got close to something like that. Like, you know. If you've ever done a tour in Hawaii, we fly over in a helicopter. No. Hawaii's wild. The big island is wild because it's growing every year because the lava is constantly flowing into the ocean. You can literally watch the island expand in real time. That's wild. And you fly over in a helicopter. So you're flying over. You're looking down at the lava pouring out of the earth. Is this Italy? Mount Etna. Look at that. Isn't that one man? Not to be confused regularly. Yes, Sicilians think of themselves very differently.

59:20Look how beautiful that is man. God, that's so fucking cool. We visited Pompeii too. I did that as a kid. And it's crazy. Still one of the coolest. But I was like, you know, it's funny. I look back. You know, they have like up the streets. They'll have like the fountain at the end of the street where the water would come and you could see like where people lean their hand. There's like an indention for the centuries of people leaning in to get a sip of water. I just put my hand on that as a kid. Just like I almost couldn't stop like thinking about that. I do that all the time. I do that with my kids when I'm like, fucking around, I'm like shake the hand.

1:00:02I shook Chuck Berry's hand. Bo Dittles hand. Little Richard I shook, little Richard's hand. John Lee Hooker. You know, they're all like laughing. Did you met John Lee Hooker? I did, one time. Wow. That's a guy I'd love to meet. His handshake was amazing. It was just like a... Touched my hand, it was just like a cloud. It was the softest pillow. I was like, wow. And it was early days. We had line the Memphis Blues Festival and he went on before us. and I was like, I just don't think that's right. It's right, right, right. I know we're selling a lot of records, but that's crazy. That's John Lee Hooker, man.

1:00:46I never get out of these blues alive. Yeah, boom, boom, boom. Yeah, he was as cool as it gets. That's amazing, man. Have you ever met anybody that just like, you know, you're like, can't even believe I'm talking to this person?

1:01:01Yes. But one time it was Dr. J. a lot. I was at some party in Vegas. This is back in the mid 90s. Some VH1 thing or something. And I was standing outside. Was that the hard rock? And this is the guy's name. Steve Win who owns the thing, the hard rock or win or something. He owns a bunch of those. Yeah. And this was 30 years ago. And I was there. And he was like, oh, hey, I mean, Chris, you ever met Julius Irving? And I was, I mean, I was like, I loved Dr. J so much growing up, you know? He and George Gerber were my heroes. I played basketball. And I was like, and he was just so cool. You know, and he was like, hey man, nice to meet you.

1:01:48I was just, I was like a little kid. I just couldn't believe that I met Dr. J. I should Dr. J's hand. I gotta throw him in there too. Wow. And the other one would be Robert Altman, the director. Oh, really? Matt Robert at a party. I was at a party, like a Donatella for Sachi party in London. And there were a bunch of famous people there. But everyone sat down at a table and, you know, and different things. And he was a, I was just like, oh, and he was with Richard E. Grant. They were making Gosford Park. Richard E. Grant also, I was impressed to see in me because of the film With Now and I is one of my favorite movies of all time.

1:02:38And there's With Now, you know, like there he is. I mean, it's Richard, but there's Bob Altman, who is, you know, Lord of my imagination. One of the best film, my favorite film, some of my favorite films of all time. And so after when the dinner kind of is less whatever people are up talking to other people, I just go over to him. I'm like, fuck it, I'm just gonna say. I would be a little bit timid or shy in that situation. And I would never think anyone, I still to this day, never imagine anyone knows who I am or what I do or whatever. It's a good way to go through life, actually. Yeah, it is still a big, big toy home.

1:03:16Yeah, and then you find out most people don't know who you are. Give a fuck what to do but I go over and I I introduce myself and I instantly recognize that he smells like weed like he's you know kind of roach in his pocket or something and I'm like Bob are you hold it? You want to get stoned? I was like yeah, so Pulls out of joint and like we're sitting there and we're just talking about weed and And he's like, it's hard to get this from California. And I was like, wow, man, we smoked a joint and talked a little bit about music and jazz and London. And that was kind of it. And he was like, oh, you should come by the office.

1:03:59And I never took him up on it. The production office, just because I felt out of my depth, I should have. But that was like one of those things I will always remember It's interesting when you meet people that were heroes to you and they're just their human beings They're just normal and then you realize like especially in your case like you've become that to other people and then some kid will come up to you Chris Robinson yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah fucking normal person just a person but to them you're you're the black crow's you're not a normal person, you're a fucking god. You know, it's weird.

1:04:40You're an inaccessible plateau of society that very few people ever experienced. I think music has a part of that as well. Like you said, I mean, and I, you know, there will always be, I don't know, I think that there's a connection in creation, art, you know, where does the idea come from? I mean, I think there's people who can manipulate that and make like, I'm gonna make a pop song and it's gonna sound like this and Not saying that it's not special, not good, but then I think there's other things that there's I'm not using it in a Christian way or whatever, but there's a divine spark of something that happens or whatever Drops in your lap imagination wise the muse.

1:05:29You know the muse is real the muse is real I think it is real too. And the one thing that I do believe about the muse, and I consider the muse a female presence, a female, most dynamic. Yeah. And I feel that the muse, at least my, the muse that I feel is a very jealous thing. And I don't mean it in possessive way or anything weird, but just like the second your devotion is turned somewhere else, the muse could leave you. That might be as superstitious as throwing salt over your shoulder or whatever, but I honestly believe that. And it makes it difficult in life because life isn't just the muse.

1:06:18Life isn't just the dream world that I live under my imagination. And the ideas have to come from somewhere. It's not just singing and dancing and you have to have ideas. What is this? You know for me I've always had to be involved with every aspect I'm covers the stage design the fucking lamina everything has to fit into a world that I can and Feel like I want to inhabit, you know something that's comfortable and interesting Yeah, and I think if you remove so it's not just the musical part of the music It's the whole thing and I think if you're like oh, you know what I'm gonna Get into I'm not you're if my reverence for that goes away and even in the slightest I feel that she will turn her back on me forever and they'll have nothing no more Poetry no more music.

1:07:04Well, you're probably right because let's assume the muse is real the muse the muse would probably Reserve its greatest inspiration for its most devoted followers I wait I think so yeah the most about followers of the ones that are gonna be adherent to a ritual sit in front of the computer the notepad or however you write and just like spend time. Yeah, I could never ever write lyrics on a screen. I could never do it. You write it on paper? Oh yeah. Yeah. I'm like, complete. Does anybody write lyrics on screens? I think, yeah. I think a lot of people. Artists that you know of. Yeah, yeah. Interesting.

1:07:44I think a lot of hip -hop people write rhymes on their phones. Yeah, no, I know a lot of rock and roll people who were like, hey, you know. Well, the phone thing's convenient. I transfer all my notes to phones because it's occasionally I'll write something on the phone. The best thing about the phone honestly is like sometimes I have an idea, maybe I've had a couple of cocktails too, which is like memory is slippery. When you're drinking with friends and you're having a good time, but you have an idea, I'll just like run into a bathroom stall. I'll hit the voice recorder and just say it. I do that too.

1:08:14I do the voice recorder as well for like if I'm plucking around a guitar and you get a little something that I like. or when Rich and I are writing songs too, like if we're not, but you know, I've never had a home studio, I've never wanted that. Really? I never, do you want to go to a place? I want to go to a place and I, a part of my thing is I like everyone's contribution. You know what I mean? I mean, in the black clothes, Rich and I write the songs. But the contributions can be musical or the product, or it could be anything. Right. I mean, sometimes it's the engineer and the producer in the band and the vibe of those people being together.

1:08:56And it's all of that circulating and percolating and making something, everyone in on it. You know what I mean? Like an old submarine movie or something like your big depth charge and everyone has a job to do so you don't die. Right. You know. But I think that's important for me. You know like I love I mean Prince is one of my musically, I Mean there's an argument you made that maybe Prince was a badest mother fucker of all time definitely an argument I mean because there's people who can write there's people who can play there's people who can produce and record and There's people who can dance and sing and perform that guy did it all at its yeah ultimate level every musical instrument I mean, yeah, he was insane.

1:09:47It was so good. And he was so different. I remember when the first album came out, it was just that picture of him with a shirt off, with his hair, you know, and you hear the songs, and you're like, wow, this guy's out there. Yeah, the second record, Prince. Is that the second record? The first one's called For You. And there's a picture of him kind of like, it's, he was, it's For You, is that one with Jack Me Off? No, that's later. Okay. For You, the first sigo is soft and wet. which is before Jackie was. It has to be something. And I always laugh because I was, you know, by the time we're in the suburbs, I live in Atlanta, you know, I'm obsessed with Black radio at the time.

1:10:25I'm only listening to V103 FM Atlanta. My first concert is slave and cool in the gang and sky at the Omni. I'm going to see the time, vanity six, SLS, lakeside, cameo, you know, the worst day. Yeah, I was one of the best concerts I've ever seen. at that, you know, at that time in my life and only listening that radio. So the first print single comes out and it's soft and wet. It's great. So I'm like, funky and cool. This little kind of disco break down in the middle, a little roller skating shit in the middle. And I'm like, I didn't really know what soft and wet was. Yeah. It was like, is this like a washcloth that he left in the vet?

1:11:07What is this? Yeah. No, he was a character I never met him. I never met him. I never even, I saw him. I only saw him in concert once. Really? And it was fantastic. He was amazing. He was doing a residency once at House of Blues in Vegas, but it was like really late at night. I had to do something in the morning and I passed on going to this day, killing myself. Yeah, because he would do the concert and then go play another eight hours or whatever. Yeah. Well, he was going up really late. It's like it was after midnight and I was like, I got shit I have to do tomorrow. I can't do this. I can't be that tired.

1:11:41To this day, I'm like, fuck. You know, it's funny. The other person I met that I was that put me very much at ease But when I first said hello that I was totally freaked out was George Jones. Oh wow I met him at the at the Rhyme and Auditorium after Johnny Cash passed away. They like me Jesus the Sistine man I was like I got ushered into this dressing room. You know, I was a guest Chris Christoff was there. I was amazed to meet him. But I'm like, good George Jones. Oh, Possums right there. And I've ended up talking to him. And he was really, really sweet, man. I wanted to talk about Kansas City Chiefs.

1:12:25He loved the Chiefs. And I used to watch football back then. But I will always remember. So they were, he was taking over for Johnny Cash, singing I think it's Johnny Cash maybe it was Wayland's part I don't know the song that great the high women I was a high women and he was the damn builder on the Columbia River whatever but he he kept looking at the lyrics even I'm a damn builder Chris Christmas, I was like, man, it's not like he goes, I don't think my fans want me to, I'm a damn builder. I mean, he just kept thought it was so funny. And I was like, what amazing, you know, that I got to be in there.

1:13:11But the other funny part of that is they were like, Chris, we take a picture with George and Chris. And I'm like, I'm getting my fucking picture taken with George, Jones and Chris Christoff. That's pretty well. That's the coolest thing. And I'm like, I'm like in the middle. You know what I'm like, man, this is the coolest day ever. And then the door opens. Yeah, my ex -wife is there too. But then the door opens and Al Gore gets in the picture and ruins it. Like get out of the picture. Who? How did he get in there? I don't know. We're talking about the climate. Yeah, yeah, I mean that was his initial climate thing, but I'm like let's talk about your wife Telling people what they can listen to Howdy here who are you self -righteous?

1:14:04Yeah people forgot about that. She was the one who made well Actually helped albums because when they put those warning labels Warning label one. Yeah, I've even got a warning label. Oh, I've remembered an end up you a had the warning label on them I mean all of that but I mean I'm like you guys are really seriously upset about the band wasp. I mean, like you think. Yeah, it's really ridiculous now in hindsight, but I remember, I was in high school at the time, it was a big thing. Well, they're telling you what to do again. And a lot of it was racist, you know what I mean? Oh yeah. But it was like, well, I guess it was out of high school.

1:14:41It was like when rap music was really starting to emerge and those lyrics were so shocking, like early iced tea, ice cube, all that stuff. I mean, it happened with rock and roll. You know what I mean? in one's case. I mean, it happened with Chuck Berry TV, you know what I mean? And there's that, the initial phase of the cosmic fucking blood and brimstone of rock and roll is ends pretty quickly when it starts and then you turn into like the Paul Anke Pat Boone sort of style until the Beatles really come back around. I mean, there's, you know, you have lots of cool records in between there, but they're small.

1:15:22But it's interesting like that where things come in waves. They come in waves of great artists for whatever reason. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think, I mean, at least if you look at like, when I look at my age people, we were just, we were close enough to the Beatles and close enough to the Sex Pistols and close it. You know what I mean? And the Stones and the Zeppelin, that shit's long gone for a lot of younger people. You know, it's time moves on. You know what I mean? I have to ask you a question because before I forget, did Rick Rubin try to get you guys to change the name of your band? Yes. And did he really try to get you to change the name of the band to the KKK?

1:16:02The Caul, the county crow's? I know that the king of yoga, whatever the fuck he's selling, whatever, you know, whatever his, you know, but under that beard, that guy, And it's funny because good for Rick Rubin, whatever he can do whatever he wants. He has very little, but he didn't say that. That's a true story. By the way, it was unimaginably offensive. Unimaginably. Why would you say that to us? Explain the conversation. How does it happen? Because I think... Well, we were called Mr. Crow's Garden. It's a book. It's like a children's book from the 20s. Called Mr. Crow's Garden. With an E, so it's a name.

1:16:53He was Mr. Crow. And we were kind of into like psychic, you know, like it was our, that was the name of our band. So when we made Shaker Moneymaker a few years had gone by since we first were Mr. Crow's Garden. And now we don't sound like that. And George Chacullius, our producer and our ANR guy in our lifeline to the music business to the world, who signed us in stuff. He was like, we need, you know, new, got to change the name. So there was a little bit of time where before we said, we'll be the Black Cros. And that's when Rick interjected that that's what he, because we're Southern. Aren't all Southern people fear driven ignorant bigots?

1:17:41Isn't every one of them? But he didn't say it that way, right? So how do they say that? He said it like, it'd be cool. It'll be like controversial. I'm like, yeah. It's crazy. So, and how did he bring it up? Like, I think this is a cool, you're from Cobb County. See, we're not from there, but we're from Atlanta. By the way, it's fucking hard to get it to change Wikipedia. They're like, we're being rich of born in Mariam, we're from Atlanta, Georgia. You know, third generation Atlanta. And I was like, my grandfather was born in Atlanta in 1906, you know what I mean? So it's hard to get that shit changed, but he was like, oh, so you live in Cobb County, COBB, well you should change it to Cobb County, Croes and put them all case.

1:18:30And we were like, it's, that's so funny. and disgusting. It's also such a crazy idea to not have context to it. Just to imagine that you're gonna call band the KKK, like what the fuck? Cobb County Crows actually sounds cool, with C's. You know, it was Cobb County CCC, no problems. Great name, nothing wrong with it. You probably would have achieved the exact same successes of Black Crows. But I don't know because the poet and me and the the the armchair occultist would believe that that the only way we got We achieved what we achieved became what we became is because of the way the the some reason Also leaving the e in it.

1:19:18Hmm made that was the one thing that I said we would do So it's you know and by the way leaving the e in it was also great and it's still great to this day when we're someone requests something or want something from you and they misspell the name of the band we're like no fuck that now you could get a look there

1:19:43I just can't imagine that conversation someone saying I can't imagine either Rick is a friend of mine so just to you know for clarity I think I I don't hate Rick Rubin or anything. He did, he did. He's a fascinating guy. I mean, he's a very interesting thinker. And I could imagine this idea intrusively embedding itself in his mind and then coming out of his mouth. I just can't see how it works. I need to be honest, I found a lot of, when especially in this, when our first record came out and, we're on tour and we're working that record and I'm the one who has to get up in the morning and okay, so we're playing.

1:20:28We're in Cleveland now we're playing Cincinnati. I have to go to 10 radio stations in Cleveland in Cincinnati and do the hand shaking and the talking and you know sell the band. I meet all the like local promo people, you know, so they pick you up and stuff. And most everyone was really super cool and they would be the people that could get you drugs and pay for drinks and stuff. Yeah, you know. And, but wow, I would be driving in the car with some of these guys and they'd be like, must be tough being, I'm like, you know, like talking down to me like, you don't know me. Just because I'm Southern and I'm a musician, doesn't mean that, you know, talking down to me, like I'm stupid or something, I'm like, whoa, whoa.

1:21:14You don't know. You don't know, it must be tough in what way. Well, like you're from Atlanta, like do they have schools there? You know what I mean? I mean, yeah, just kind of patronizing me or thinking that everyone's supposed to go, oh, oh, just that would be a year. Placing damn, you know what I mean? I mean, we're not from Atlanta, Georgia. Yeah, you know what I mean? You don't know what books I read, you don't know what I'm into, you don't know anything about me. Well, this has always been a deep history of prejudice about people in what they would call the flyover states, the arrogance of New York and Los Angeles.

1:21:47And you know, you kind of sort of, fly every single people talking to me. That's funny. Even worse. You know, there's some people that like accept Chicago a little bit in some other cities, Detroit a little bit. But the reality was, it was about the coasts. And everything in between was bullshit. There was a little bit of it. As if everyone in Rochester, New York, has like a PhD in French literature. By the way, that used to be kind of true when you would go on the road. Not true, but you would notice a market difference in the awareness, if you were talking about anything, out of the ordinary, the awareness of people's, what they knew in certain cities, in certain places in the country, versus what they knew in Los Angeles in New York.

1:22:29It was a difference. I mean, they were, yeah, they're hip -roading. They were not sophisticated. Yeah, they weren't sophisticated. They didn't know as much. But that got changed with the internet. Yeah, everyone has exact, you go to fucking reference. Cleveland, Ohio, you know, where ever you go, there's fucking people that get it, they get it. Do you remember when Bill Hicks used to just look at the audience and go, MOO! Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people still haven't caught up to Bill. Oh, he was great. I mean, he used to call it his flying saucer tour because he would only go to places with flying saucers who would land.

1:23:03Like, very weird little out of the way. What's that record called rant in C minor? Is it something like a minor? It's a day minor. I don't remember. I don't know what Key said, but that... Yeah. I mean, I still put that on and it's just fantastic. It's unbelievably fun. Change comedy, change comedy. Made people want to become profound. It was a change comedy from just a bunch of stuff to laugh at, to stuff that made you think about it after you're done laughing. Like, I think George Carling had that as well. For sure. Yeah, for sure in a different way. But, you know, Hicks was more psychedelic inspired and it was just more as a terror.

1:23:40like, thing in him that, for lack of another description, I think that gave him that kind of experience. Yeah, it's the right way to describe it, I think. I had a chance to see him live a bunch of times, luckily. Like in a way he understood what a great underground band means to someone. Oh yeah, and what it meant to him. Yeah, I'm on what exactly. Yeah, he was an artist. He was an artist that was also a comedian. He wasn't trying to conform to whatever ever the stereotypical, this is the guy that's going to get a sitcom act is going to create. But there's not a lot of those comments. Is it worth, is the sitcom worth it?

1:24:17It doesn't exist anymore. No, but I mean for those comics that like took that route. You know what? It was the golden carrot. It was the thing that they held over all of our heads is that if you develop an act, they can be converted into a sitcom all of a sudden, you're Tim Allen and you have $50 million in the bank or your Jerry Seinfeld or your Brett Butler or your Rosanna. there was like a few of those people. Yeah, and there's a bunch of people that had managed to some more obscure shows that people forgot about, but they made a lot of money as well. And it was this thing that if you could get on a sitcom and then all of a sudden you're the King of Queens.

1:24:51You know, like my friend Kevin James, that was his thing. Right, right. And that's how he got through it. And that was the magic portal, the magic portal to wealth. And it's, it also fucked up a lot of people's acts because it was a lot of really fun and kind of that. Yeah, now you're kind of stuck and censored. Yeah, and now you know the things that you want to say you can't say. They self -sensor. This is the saddest thing. I know some of the great comics of the 90s that are ruined because they self -sensor now because they sort of develop this act for television and then once they were on television they got all that TV money.

1:25:27They wanted to keep it coming in so they never really branched out into more offensive subject matter or just more provocative. More provocative. You know what I mean? I think irreverent in some ways. You know what I mean? And you feel free. Everyone else will judge what that is. Yeah, but it's just the problem is you never make everybody happy. And now way more people have an opinion they can express like because of social media. Like everyone can express their opinion. It's not as simple as you hope to get the favor of a reviewer. Like someone who's cool, really likes bands, comes and says, oh, Bob's here.

1:26:02This guy's fucking cool. He's gonna review our show. And you're like, he kind of trusted Bob. Bob was a good guy. He really loved music. He wasn't trying to tear things down. Those guys don't exist anymore. Yeah, yeah. Now, now, what everyone's trying to do is get people on social media to like them and or not be mad at them. So when they put out a special, you see this. That'd be mad at that. Yeah, you see these, which as a... The only artist, sometimes is to make your audience mad at you to challenge them. Yes. I mean, you know what I mean? in a way like, oh God, how many things in life like did I didn't like at a time that I finally found my way through later and be like, oh, of course, thank you.

1:26:38You know what I mean? Of course, that's the natural progression. It's the natural way. And by the way, not everything is supposed to be, like you were saying. And I guess that's where we are with this social media. Nothing can have that sort of mystique around it anymore. because it's forcing too much out of someone. You're expecting too much from someone to either follow you and or understand, get it, or acceptance. Right, you know. Well, it's just a foolish pursuit. The pursuit of other people who you don't even know, they're love and attention, and you'll morph and change and adapt whatever you're trying to produce in order to gain their favor.

1:27:21That's a fucking folly that's such a foolish way of interacting with human beings. And whatever you create is not completely false. I mean, you're, and you can see where, you know, personally, I think you're starting to see culturally where that hollowness and that falseness isn't helping. Oh, it's definitely not helping. It's pushing us over the edge. Yeah, it's not good. You need experiences from people where when they resonate these, when they put out these works, whether it's a book or music or anything. This thing represents their soul and their perspective and their actual, this is a thing they've created.

1:28:07Not a thing they're doing so they hope you like it. Not a thing they're doing so they hope you don't get mad. Not a thing they're doing where you highlight social issues of people thinking they're a virtuous person. Yeah, yeah. It's not. Well, it's funny when you say that, the virtuous part of it, that's funny too because you know, especially like, you know, the lobby of your place is full of pictures of famous people who have been arrested for all my mug shots. And it's like, I mean, in a way, in a counterculture way, whether it's a poet or musician, a jazz musician, anyone, you know, Robert Mitchem.

1:28:45You know what? You know, Robert Mitchem's cooler than Kurt Douglas, because he got busted for smoking pot, okay? So Robert Mitchem's cooler than you, Kurt Douglas.

1:28:57But the outsider in culture, you know what I mean? The loser and the outsider are other themes that we do not celebrate as much. And I'm not talking about some fabricated pop star who pouts and is like, look how dark I am. I mean, that's not what I'm talking about. No. And that's always there. Again, Shobiz and corporate things. You know, can manipulate these kind of archetypes. Yes. Yes, and put them in the sign of genre specific things that they want because they know. That's not that's that's that's something formulating a rebel is so gross. Yeah, yeah. Oh my god. A formulated rebel a disingenuous formulated rebel.

1:29:38Yeah, I mean, you see them. You do, but I think they sort of make you really appreciate people that are true artists or the people that are just it really is just their expression with a trying to create. They hope people enjoy. You know, there's I mean, it's funny because that's, you know, know, more than ever, not just for the fact that I really went, had to go through certain things to come and full circle with my career and my brother and what the black crow's mean in my life. A lot of things, you know, a lot of it starting with, with my wife, Camille and stuff. But one of the things that keeps me excited and one of the main things that I love is I know that we're in callous old fashioned or callous naïve or anything you want it doesn't matter.

1:30:32But we were talking about that stupid flame idea, this purity, but I know when we go out on tour and we write songs, make records, play concerts. It's something that is raw still in there. We're not in air monitors, we don't, there's no computer on our stage. You know what I mean? We don't, you see, these fucking bands, cancel a show because their laptop didn't work. I'm like, well, bar your moms. Bar your moms. Do you like cancel shows? Cause their laptop crashes. Yeah, it happens all the time. That is fucking hilarious. And like, there's bands that are up there They're not even playing. They press a button and they're up, you know what I mean?

1:31:11Which is fine, whatever you want to do to get over. I get it. Again, I was born the same year the Beatles made revolver. I get it, you know what I mean? But think about that. My daughter's lifetime, the Beatles will be a fucking hundred years old. Those records will be 1964 or 100 years ago. That's crazy. You know what I mean? That's so crazy. You think about it that way? Like, because when I was a kid it was just a decade or two ago. Well, in the same decade between the Beatles, if that 100 years was the end of the Civil War and the Beatles, you know what I mean? It's weird. It's weird thing to look at time that way.

1:31:48Well, it really puts into perspective because we look at everything through this lens of a finite lifespan of 100 years if you're lucky. You know, we look at everything like this is like a long time. But it's not a long time. No, it's a fucking, I did used to do this joke about that The constitution like the America America was founded in 1776. I go people live to be a hundred. That's three people ago Yeah, three people ago they started this like it's nothing. Yeah, it's so new Everything's so new civilization itself. Oh my god. It's so ancient. Is it really? It's not I mean you're talking about the 3000 years, but in the big scope of things not how much time and they And I think historically and because of science and things, you know, it's like that idea, well this was the Bronze Age.

1:32:38It started on Thursday and then they find a corpse in the ice and the Italian Alps and the guy has a bronze sword and he's 2000 years before they thought they're like, fuck, I gotta read. Yeah, I gotta read. There's a problem with that with the archaeologists. I gotta get my advocates out and do the math. Yeah, they're very reluctant to change the dates of things they've been publishing about forever. But there's some things that they find every now and then that force them. There's a place called Gobekli Tepi in Turkey that's 11 ,000 years old and they found it in the 90s. I believe it was a sheep herd or found this piece of stone in the ground.

1:33:12He kicked out it, moved it around, and realized it was had an edge to it, and then they excavated it. And it's just an enormous temple structure. And to this day, we only excavated like 5 % of it. There's a lot of controversy behind it because people are like, Why aren't they continuing to excavate? Like what are they doing? Well now in archaeology they can do almost just as much with Sonic, they can plan out what's going on and not disrupt the stuff. Well that's how they know there's many, many of these structures around that same area. You know, the last, these things are 11 ,000 years old. The last show of our tour, we were in Marida, Spain playing in a Greek, I mean in a Roman theater that they had only done the excavations in the 50s because I guess at a certain point They just filled there's an amphitheater next to it where they would have Glowatorial games and things and in a theater for theatrical and religious purposes but you're sit, you know Pink Floyd gets Pompeii we get marrida.

1:34:13It's still cool. You know, yeah, but you're playing in this place was built during the reign of Augustus and And then the guy goes, yeah, well, you know, it was just filled with trash. There he is. Wow, that's incredible. It was just filled with trash. And then finally they dug it all out of there, you know, and so on. And this was down there. This is how we went. Wow, that was all covered. Yeah. That's nuts. That is so nuts. It was fantastic, beautiful place. We went to Greece last year. I got to see the... Delphi? Well, we went to Ulysses or no what how you say it? Illusion well the illusion mysteries right?

1:34:55Illusine and mysteries where you can do the cave I think Well, this was a parking lot from what I read because I'm really I mean now Have they yeah, yeah, like where the original mysteries took place? No, no you can still go there Oh, yeah, it's all cardin' off. It's all it's it's protected You have to go through a gate to get in, his card's there and stuff. But we went to there, which is where the Illusinian mysteries were, and I got really lucky to go with my friend Brian Murerescu. I was there with my family and Brian was there at the same time at Brian Murerescu, as a scholar who wrote this incredible book about the use of psychedelics and ancient Greece that's now been confirmed through.

1:35:37They take these old pieces of pottery and they found Urgot and the pottery. Yeah, of course. They think all their wine was laced with psychedelics and these people were and they invented democracy I mean they're tripping balls and trying to give everybody an equal participation in society and figuring things out But you're around these structures and these are fucking thousands of years old. What is it? What was it the Cookeon the drink the drink yeah, yeah the cookie on yeah, you know and they find this almost exact same structure in Peru as well Really and down in the thing psychedelic Mirrors in the corner where they could build fires and like sin light Throughout and stuff.

1:36:18Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, and then but what happens to in Greece is They it's the what is the law it's a once in a lifetime experience But then the rich people get their hands on it and they start having their ceremonies private ceremonies, more exclusive or elitist. And that's kind of the fall of that. Well, the Romans put a stop to it. No, they didn't. People, no, these people are like rethinking society. The same way they put a stop to it in the 1960s. When the government made all psychedelic drugs, schedule one, when they were doing that, so they can go after the anti -war protesters and the black panthers, and they changed the counter -culture moving.

1:37:00Yeah, King of us is close to the same thing. I mean, you know, when I first made the decision to be a daily cannabis user, I was an outlaw. Now I'm a patient, you know? Yeah, is that interesting? You're like, we used to be like, you know, people think they killed Bob Marley because of shit like that. But now it's just like, it's my medicine. Yeah. Well, you know, it's now and how many states, Jamie? Legal and how many? Did we say it was like legal in 19 and I think it's half the country has legal marijuana half the country and the other half the country wants it Like what are we doing like how the fuck is it 20 24 with all that we know about all the drugs and that this one 24 states three territories in Washington DC have legalized recreational cannabis use seven states have decriminalized its use Commercial distribution is legal in all jurisdictions where possession is legal, except for Virginia and Washington, D .C.

1:37:57Personal cultivation for recreation uses allowed in all jurisdictions, except for Delaware, Illinois, New Jersey. That's surprising. And Washington State, that's even more surprising. Well, first off, let's just be honest, no one's ever ever had fun in Delaware. I'm just kidding. And there were buttons from it. I think it's just a dumb thing for us to be hanging on to, the fact that they're still allowing grown adults to tell other grown adults what they can do with their consciousness. With all the data that we know about things that are very harmful that are not just legal but prescribed by doctors, how about just everything is harmful that they allow in the world?

1:38:35They don't give a fuck about the sea being a plastic desert but don't smoke pot or I mean I find that's always been the case with authority, isn't it? You know what I mean? Like language, you know what language you're... You know what I mean? What language can you use and how you use it? Sex and violence, you know? The fact that it's violence. Well, talk about Rome then. Now we're going back to Rome. And one of the reason Rome was so successful is because they placated, and we talk about Rome, we're not talking about Italy, we're talking about the city state of Rome. That is the thing that conquered the room, the city state, and the surrounding areas were other things, but they keep the masses happy Keep them entertained.

1:39:18Keep them entertained. And free bread. Yep. And, you know, in the same way that you keep people, you control people by fear and ignorance. Keep them, you know what I mean? And it's exactly. And TikTok. Just keep them mildly entertained all day long. I find the idea of TikTok about as interesting as the game TikTok. I don't even know. I'll TikTok toe. TikTok toe. I'm not doing that either. No, I'm not doing that either. It is crazy when you go to the Coliseum and you realize the extent of the construction of it and how elaborate it was and how many different things they had going on Well, they would turn it into like they have boats they filled up with water and Wow, wow, shit that animals and cages they could race the floor.

1:40:01It's unimaginable And now you know the thing about going there too is you go I wonder if they ever thought this is gonna end Did they ever imagine of course now? No, they certainly never imagined some idiot comedian and his family from California at the time We're going to go visit and go, woo, cool. This is where they had sword fights. I mean, I imagine, yeah, I think some of the emperors probably in an egocentric way felt, and it's true. Everyone knows, you know, there might be some kid who'd never heard a bird's record, but he might know who Nero was, or Caligula, or something. Sure. The most dramatic sort of deranged parts of where that period of Rome of the dictator starts to become.

1:40:52It's just always shocking when you go to a place that was in complete control of most of the world. And then now it's nothing. Now it's gone. Now it's just ruins the people visit. And it's just a city. Yeah, what if Bill Gates had been like, you know, Guido, whatever, that would be a different thing. What if the whole internet came from Italy, not America. You know what I mean? Right. It's just always weird to go to a place too when you're from America. Claudio Gotzo, whatever. He came up with this, you know what I mean? But they had a pretty good run in the Renaissance. Oh, well, they've had amazing runs artistically.

1:41:28I mean, that's also something I think about when I go to Italy. There is something about their life and their lifestyle that contributes to this incredible body of work when it comes to art, when it comes to music, when it comes to sculptures and paintings, like there's so many great artists. They came from that part of the world. Have you ever seen a book called Naples 44? No. Do you know this book? It's a friend of mine gave it to me a couple of years ago. It's a British secret service officer. Comes to Naples in 1944. directly in the push of the allies pushing the Germans and then fascist up the peninsula from Sicily and then landing in Italy.

1:42:16And it's an unbelievable book that this guy writes and it's the sadness and the like tragedy of it and like anything else, war is dramatic, war is pain and violent. The aftermath of war is something that people rarely can wrap their heads around or interested in. Maybe because it's even, you know, you take away the drama of the battle and stuff, it's bleak. But there's something about a NISK guy, not Italian, English guy, but he captures the spirit, the humanity within like this transitional period in Naples, but unimaginable stories to pravity, but also great, exalted human things. And then just some things that are incredible, like, you know, Italians in their clothes.

1:43:08And even the rich, the aristocratic class in Naples to the person that could, when they didn't have any fabric around this time after that, they're walking around Naples in art and beautifully tailored suits made of old army blankets that they would use black paint on to make them look chic. And yeah, and I was like, wow, I would love to see that garment in a museum. But just all manner of things. And there's another American guy was there at the same time and wrote another book about it, which is also very interesting because this guy was one of the only books at that time. I have it in my phone, I could tell you, but it talks about like the gay scene with the soldiers and Naples and stuff too, like during this thing.

1:43:57Just, you know what I mean? Incredible stories, incredible survival and heroics and art and culture that still survive and during the darkest time. It's a great, great book, unbelievable, unforgettable. What's always interesting too, when you're thinking about things thriving and existing against resistance, in a dark time or a different time, a time of much more difficulty. And you get a chance to sort of feel what they felt when they were doing what they were doing. I mean, I think, culturally, historically, I mean, I think one of the great reasons Europeans have a much different attitude, you're talking about Sicilian, Italians, everyone, French, Spanish, Spanish people, know how to have a good time.

1:44:46Oh yeah, sure. You know, to have two events like the World War I and World War II, yeah, we have very little, it's hard for us to understand what those two events must have felt like through communities, cities, families. I just read another amazing book called Wine and War and it's a history of like the wine in business during the Nazi occupation during World War II. Unimaginable wild shit going on. But the French people, you know, because the Germans, they knew as well, like, you know, what's the blood of France is the wine? What is the thing that holds it together in all these things? But it's also a great commodity and also something of great elevated status, you know, all this stuff with the way they dealt with the Vichy, I just, you know, and I'm like, wow, man, And these guys had a lot on their plate for five years and leading up to the you know inevitable Nazi occupation Well even in World War one.

1:45:50I mean in World War one France lost 25 % of its men and then in World War two they lost another 25 % And in the book. I mean and also just history. I think that's one of people you know one of the reasons I think Germany I mean a lot of French people just didn't want to do it again You know what I mean? Right, right, right. And that, and I think you know, and you know what's funny too, like history repeats itself all the time. We know this. You know, and there was a lot of in fighting and political things within the French government at that time, whether that's, you know, through the military or whatever, that made them really a soft spot, you know what I mean.

1:46:33They had no, no one, there was no cohesiveness of the way they would think about fighting or defending or whatever. Yeah, but they went out in the end, you know what I mean? But this book about just how that affects all the different wine regions and the characters and stuff That has to be insane. It's a great great book because it's so important over there wine is everything to them It's so important and you know It's funny one of the like things in the book. You're like, okay, so they're obviously You know confiscating everything for the Varmac and doing all this stuff But they take this I I might be wrong But I think it's the Puefusseg.

1:47:09They take this this guy has like, you know, however many casks or whatever and they just take everything and then The guy's upset. He's been in his family for 400 years or whatever and he's sitting there with his head in his hands and they're like It's just wine. He goes I know it's just wine, but they destroyed 300 year old casks the oak barrels that that's the secret to the R wine. And they chopped them up and threw them on a fire or whatever, you know what I mean? And that he was more upset about that than the wine itself at that time. And he was like, they're replaceable. Could never ever have that again.

1:47:50It's been in my family for three, you know, stuff like that really gets my head spinning off. Oh yeah, forget it's not just the grape and the person that makes the wine, it's that, you know what I mean? It's every detail, every aspect. Well, they can also destroy the history of how it was made. People won't know how to do it correctly. I mean, that's the one of the darker aspects of occupation is when they destroy ancient stuff, like the burning of the Library of Alexandria. I mean, could you imagine what that, I mean, we have no, I mean, unimaginably. And by the way, who burned it down? Christians.

1:48:23Did they? Yeah, it was Christian people who ran a muck because of something that had happened, and some sort of crime that was committed or something. And it was the early Christians who burned that down. Those motherfuckers. You imagine if that had some sort of an explanation as to how they built the pyramids, and it was lost forever? I mean, it could be anything. Anything. Millions and millions of... But that was the most sophisticated society that has even today ever existed. If you look in ancient Egypt, in terms of their ability to construct things that baffle us to this day, Like the great pyramid baffles people to this day.

1:49:00There's hundreds of thousands of people debating how and why and what they were for and what they did and we really don't know. I'm also interested in anything where before science becomes one thing and like the occult is another thing. And I'm just, there's a certain time. And I'm really interested in John D., the great occultist scientist English around the Elizabeth I reign. Alchemist. But that his scientific ideas were equally, they possessed the same gravity as his occult ideas. And those things were in the same world. They weren't removed from each other. It wasn't like one was silly and one was serious.

1:49:44They were both taken with the same level of sobriety or whatever. You know? And that's what we were talking before. I think there's a, to be, to remove the mystic from everything or to, are not to be able to at least have a nod to it under, I mean, what is ancient Egypt? You know what I mean? But yes, there are great civilization that could organize, you know, organize, but at its base and what's holding it together is this mystical like weird thing, you know, like very much. So to remove that completely, I think is, It's it's it's I don't know it seems so rigid. It's a foolish rational There has to be interagent Yes of different things because You feel people's need for that to integrate those things.

1:50:33Well, there has been in all great cultures, right? I mean in chichen Itza if you've been to the ancient mind structures I've been to some but I didn't go to that one I went to two other ones and there in places of worship and they all they all involve rituals I mean, there was a lot going on. And what they did was incredible. And psychedelics. And psychedelics, yeah. I mean, as well. I went through Gigi Neitzel. We got lucky. There was a really good professor that was kind of explaining things to us. And he was talking about the different psychedelics that they believed that they would use and the way they had structured all their buildings to align with constellations and the way they had sort of worshiped this integration of the sky into all of their architecture.

1:51:18I mean, it's an integration into universal consciousness. I mean, that's really what it is. And it's funny, like, because you think, well, you're poisoning the water. Well, you're poisoning, we're all, it's all one living organism. And the universe is one living organism. Right, right. I mean, I don't want to get too far out, man. But of course, it's all just like the ecosystem, whatever, like the frog eats a tadpole and then the bird eats the frog. And you know what I mean? But it's just because you can't see it. doesn't mean that it's not it scales up. Yeah, and out and within. Yeah, forever.

1:51:54Yeah, that's the reality of it. So it's not just we're poisoning the water. We're poisoning ourselves. Yeah. And of course, you know, again, I I I would like to think the earth is is a strong thing. But and I don't get wrapped up in it. But it's like, I mean, if you shittin' if you live in your own You get sores. You know what I mean? Right? And it's the plague. Yeah. Yeah. There's a, when you think about the universe as a whole, it's just too big for our brains. We don't think, we just think about our neighborhood or our lives or our personal problems or our bills or our TikTok. Yeah. Nonsense.

1:52:34And it's just thinking about nonsense. You know what people think about? that they can buy shoes that they don't have to touch to put their feet in. I see this in his order. He says he's commercial and the guy walks over there like never touch your shoes again. I'm like, wow, you know what I mean? Like finally. Oh, it's choosing it's sliding shoes. And I'm like, amazing. Everything is, everyone relax. You never have to touch your shoes. What if I want to touch my shoes? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, well some people don't understand. They want comfort. You know, and some people, especially if you're doing something you don't enjoy, you think of struggle as like your job or work, and then once you're not doing that, you don't want any struggle.

1:53:20You just want relaxation. But isn't it funny also that our culture is dictating a certain health thing, take the sober challenge. Go to the gym, buy these gym clothes, and walk around in them. Do all this, but we're not gonna take care of anything else. You know what I mean? Like, you don't care about our mental health. You don't really care about our health. You know what I mean? You don't do anything about it. It's like, but culturally, let's start putting this out there. You know what I mean? Like, why? You know, when I first went to New York City, there were bars and bookstores and weird junk stores and all sorts of things that weren't corporate.

1:53:55And now it's just gyms and banks. And I think I don't really go to the gym. but I imagine you could get an ATM in the gym next door to the bank with the ATM. I'm sure you could. A lot of gyms, I'm sure of ATMs. I'm just saying, you know, like be healthy, be, you know what I mean? But I'm like, it is funny. Like, there's nothing that's saying to you be cerebral. You know what I mean? There's not a lot out there. You know, you watch old dick -cavage shows. They're smart people, then they're not promoting a movie or a fucking book or what they're just talking about. Ideas and philosophy and art and their culture and the society even uh, what was his name?

1:54:36My Douglas show. There's yeah, Muhammad Ali. Yeah, and John Linnon and it's a senator from Oklahoma or whatever You know like they're just talking you could do that back then now. It's gotta be you know The interview is pre -done. It's about the mood. They show the clip But that's only on television, but that's also why podcasts are so popular You can just kind of talk about anything. You have a new place that's also not under the scrutiny of having to play commercials every five seconds. It's also, that's a big factor, but it's also not under anybody else's direction or advice. That's what's really important.

1:55:12Yeah, how can you, no, no, I know. If I'm not doing it, it's not gonna happen. I do feel cynical, I just think so. But I mean, if I'm not doing it, at my level of the game, if I'm not doing it, like you don't have to do it. You just don't have to. All you have to do is make something that resonates with people and avoid anybody else's input. I've had a lot of bad input come my way that I've ignored. You know, and especially in the early days and things started to kind of take off, everybody has an opinion about how you can grow this thing to the next level, which those of you want to talk about.

1:55:39You know how to take the show to the next level. You know, they thought about having more celebrity, more of this than that. Everyone has advice, but maybe just avoid these kind of topics, or maybe this and that. Like, as long as you don't have any input from other people, then whether people like it don't like it. At least it's you. It's you and the people you're talking to and it's a real thing. It's not a... It's not a promotional thing. It's not a... By this. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It just exists as... Which is just one dimension of things. Yeah. And, you know, it's nice to be clean cut and your teeth are wide and you're smiling and you're selling shit, you know what I mean?

1:56:15By the way, I got a pair of shoes. You don't even have to touch them. Like, what size are you? I don't even understand that. But it's just, if I could borrow like an 18th century French duke, I would. Well, that jacket, that is a rock and roll fucking jacket. I've been looking at that thinking the moment I saw you, can I wear that? I don't know if I could pull that off. You have muscles too big to get in there. Well, I mean, it's just one tailor that's like a kid. But I'm just thinking, I don't know if I could pull that off out in public. People are like, what are you doing, dude? As a comedian, you can't be too cool.

1:56:48Unless you cat Williams I knew you were gonna say cat can be cool as fuck I'll tell you why cat will it just cool cuz he's still out there Talking shit and a eight -year -old beat him up that time Remember that shit 11 -year -old kid in the hood grabbed that motherfucker in the headlock He's like like oh man. He's like laying on the ground. I was like man You gotta have some you had it be cool to come back from that well. He's just real You know it just he is who he is and everybody loves him But he died. I can wear anything, but I can't I can't wear sparkly shoes Look at him. Yeah, that's amazing.

1:57:20Look at him in his fur coat, this fucking giant rings. He's an awesome dude too. Fun guy. Really cool. I only got to be here. The one time where I did a podcast with him. And it was because he did another podcast and he said, Joe Rogan will never have me on his podcast. And I'm like, I'll have you on anytime you want. We just never taught. I never met him before. Oh really? No, and then finally I met him. I thought comedians were like drummers. They all know each other. Every drummer knows every drummer and every band. I know everybody else. I just never met him. That's funny. That's funny. He was already so huge that when he would stop by in comedy clubs, this is like after the Pimp Chronicles, he would only like go by, you know, we'd go to a bunch of different clubs, and if you weren't there when Cat was there, you messed him.

1:58:03So he only came to the comedy store like a handful of times. And the comedy store was, that was my heart. And that's where I went with all my friends and all the best comics in LA. And you weren't gonna collaborate. You're gonna collaborate at the comedy store. And I never got to see him there. I mean I had heard he was like he's smack somebody once like So I got him by with somebody in the front porch one night. I missed it, you know, but I just I'd always admired him I thought and I'd always talked nice about him I didn't understand why he thought I wouldn't have him on the podcast, but once I met him.

1:58:30He's a joy He's a he's a funny smart dude who's a lot of what he's saying. He knows what the fuck he's doing He's like very tongue -in -cheek and very just having a good time with it, but he's a genuine character like a genuine unique character. I would love to meet him. Oh he's great. You love him. Very smart dude too. Very good. I see him at the airport, I'll say, yo man, you like this jacket? He might be able to fit in that. He'll be a little long. Man, I have to get the sleeves taken in. Where the fuck do you get that jacket? You know, my wife got me this jacket. Pretty dope. She's got good taste.

1:59:07Yes, she truly does. Yeah. And then you're wearing about 10 pounds of silver. Yeah. It's true. They call me the silver stacker. I don't know if you've got it. That's what the kids call it. My daughter calls it that, which is weird, but it's a great stack. That's my stack, man. Yeah, stacks. I'm just learning about these things. I just gotta be careful not to fall into pool. But I just love when rock stars stay rock stars. It's nothing but me out more than seeing an old rock star in a golf shirt. My dude. Yeah, yeah. Come on man, you gotta hang in there. I know you're 60. I'm 60 out of the stones.

1:59:42They're 80, they look amazing. Oh, they're amazing. Amazing. I love the stones. I mean, the stones are everything. I love the rolling stones. I always have. And the black clothes toured with them in 1995. We did all of Europe with them. We did Wimbley Stadium with them. I've got to hang with Keith and Ron. That's a Hollywood make a little bit. They're the fucking Rolling Stones, you know? And so my wife and I and my 14 year old daughter who lives on the East Coast, she was with us for the few weeks this summer. I'm like, let's go, you know what I mean? I haven't seen them in a while and we went and I went without any, you know what I mean?

2:00:26I went with nothing. I wasn't going in with any expectation except to pay my, you'd be there with everyone and see the Rolling Stones. and be there. And they were great. Mick Jagger's voice was incredible. Incredible, I mean, his energy and stuff's incredible, but his singing, I mean, they did wild horses at night, and I looked over and my fortune -er -old was like crying, and I was like, I'm so proud of you. She's feeling it so deep. Yeah. Great midnight rambler, the, they're in a stadium with just like, Ronnie and Keith just had like two speakers on stage and still playing. A lot of bands don't play live anymore.

2:01:07They have their digital shit through the PA. There's not even any sound on stage. It's all through their in -airs. And to me, that's really weird. Whatever it takes for you to get the gig, I'm hip -to. People do what I've seen cool shows like that. But personally, I like a lot of Sonic K. You want to feel. Yeah. I want to feel it. I saw them at Coda, the circuit of the Americas, a couple years ago. And you know, it's just, when you watch Mick Jagger walk out of the stage, you almost can't believe he's really there. Like how is that really him? I told my wife, he's like a Sasquatch, but everyone's seen him.

2:01:42Right, and he's still out there. I remember Bill Hicks had a bit in 1988 about the Stones still doing it. In 1988, but there's this crazy thing, oh my God, the Stones have a new album, like what? This is 88. Yeah, and here we are in 2024 and they're still out there killing it and the show was amazing amazing It's so good the best I mean the best I consider myself a midnight rambler fishing auto One of the best midnight ramblers. I've ever heard. Oh, they're so good and people were you know what I mean? Just it was it was really I'm so happy that we went to sulfide stadium Yeah, I was just it was great You know, because I will admit sometimes and okay, let's be honest.

2:02:31I get access to backstay You know, we have it's cool But sometimes in big places like that something how I get a little bit like not because That people would know you were I just get weird around giant crowds right? I did when I was little I didn't like theme park, you know all sorts of weird stuff. Yeah, but it was So cool. I was so inspired. You know, I mean I mean, I'm like floated out of there so happy. The guy has two trailers that he takes with him everywhere that are just a gym, two huge trailers that are just like Mick Jagger works out every day. And when he gets out on that stage and like, he's fucking 80.

2:03:10I know. He might be 81 now. If I left to be 80, you could come find me. I'm gonna be 300 pounds living in Sicily. And they're gonna, you know, those beautiful painted wagons they'll drag me around and it like. But you won't even get to 300 pounds eating their food. No, you don't. That's what's crazy. That's when you realize we're being poisoned. And you eat in Europe for a week and you don't gain any weight. You're like, this is not, I had pizza, I had pasta, I didn't feel bad. You come over here, you feel like you had hit with a tranquilizer dart. Like we're fucking poisoning ourselves. You won't get to 300 pounds if you live in Sicily.

2:03:41Yeah, no. Unless you drink a lot of fucking wine. Yeah, even the wine is like, it's better. Well, it's just there's something about, like just the air there. Just something about the atmosphere. I'm not a, you know, I have no, I'm England. We are pretty much in our DNA English, and then like a big scoop of Polish Jew on top. You know, not even a big scoop at this point. Both my grandfather and my dad were 6 -11 Jewish men who whittled me and my brother down to about 20%. Yeah.

2:04:16And, but when I'm, I don't know, there's something about there that is so just, I don't know, I have a, I love to go to Paris, but Paris isn't relaxing. You know, I'm out, all doing stuff. I love London, I love Madrid. I love lots of places. I love Rome, I love lots of places in the world. But something about Sicily, man, I'm like just, I'm in, what? You know what I mean? Like this is, like you said, it's something about the lifestyle just so laid back. And it's, maybe I like it because it's a bit of a knack I think, you know what I mean? Like you feel like you've stepped out of the same pace and or rhythm of the modern future world that we see every day.

2:04:59Yes, it's a different vibration. It's different, I mean, and then everybody's doing it that way too. So you sort of settle into their way of life. You sort of settle into their pace of things. And then if you need a shot of adrenaline, just hit Palermo, because that's why it was wild. Oh, I'm sure. It was so good. Is it still run by the mob? They say no. Oh, then yes. They say that it doesn't exist anymore. But if I remember, there was a big scandal during lockdown in some small town in Sicily, or maybe it was Palermo. I'd have to research it today. The police were upset because some old mob guy had died and they had a giant parade No one like was the marriage.

2:05:47Yeah, everyone was just out there. Old people, you know, everyone was out there doing their thing for Don, whoever it was, who was not with us anymore. And I was like, okay, they didn't want that story out. You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, those people ran that place for a long -ass time. Yeah, they're an integrated part of their society, like the Yakuza is in Japan. Yeah. It's just, for a very long time, for a very long time. Yeah, the way it works. Have you ever seen a funny movie called Johnny Stichino? No. With Roberto Bellini, the Italian comedic actor. No. He would love it. Yeah. So fun.

2:06:22It's from the 80s and he's Stichino's a toothpick, yeah. So he's Johnny toothpick. And it's that, what's the story of, it's a famous story. You know, he's a school teacher in Naples or whatever, but he looked or in Italy and he's a girl who's wife or lover, whatever, some big gangster and Sicily. He's trying to, he's in hiding because he did like, ratted on someone, I don't know, something. She sees him and he looks just like him, so she brings him to Sicily and he's like walking around. You're like, yo, what are you doing? You know what I mean? So it's that kind of thing. It's unbelievably funny moving.

2:07:02It's insane. Do you remember there was an Italian singer who created a very popular song where it was fake American lyrics, God, I'm trying to remember his name, but it was a song where he's singing fake words that sound like he's singing like the Rolling Stones or the Beatles or something like that. But he's doing it with fake words. It's like what he thinks American songs sound like, but it's gibberish. This is the guy. What is his name? Adriano Selentano. Give me some volume on this. Wow. Listen, but it's really cool. I love it. It's a cool song. The song is very cool There's a couple of different versions of it.

2:07:46This is like a live performance of it But there's another one that's like a music video of it and it's like really fucking interesting what that guy did That's cool. That's really yeah, I just made up fake American music It's fucking great. I'm gonna do that next week. Why not? Fuck it. I mean, you know that's There's a lot of songs that have like words and aren't really words. You know, they're just kind of like sounds, you know? Dan Arbok talks about that from the Black Keys. Like a lot of times when he sings things, he's just like making up sounds, making up words. Make Jagger did it. Yeah, I'm sure.

2:08:21Yeah, or he took words and mashed them into something that was more. Especially live in the 70s, he has a lot of vowels going on with you. I don't know what it is. Ah, that is so good. But man, he's not lost any of the energy. If you watch like his old performances and now it's just an older guy doing the same vibe. It's also very cool because they play everything in the same key. You'll find a lot of older and I get it man. Singing is a physical thing. I mean my one thing is kind of like the muse. Like if I stopped singing it would go away. You know what I mean if I didn't say, you know, if I'm going to take two years off I would It would never get back to where my voice is.

2:09:05Why is that? It's just the nature of the physicality, I think. You know what I mean? Especially as it's 35 years, 40 years of singing. So it's like you're working muscles. You're never vocal chords are just muscles. Wow. And you're working on regular basses and they get out of shape. Yeah. And then like that, and then it just won't come back. Oh wow. Or it won't come back to where I'd like to like my, I really like where my voice is. Yeah. I say we sing the songs in the same keys, you know. It was funny we played the first concert in the form, LA form after COVID. And I had never played there.

2:09:43It was a big night. It was friends and family. It was great. But George Ducullius produced our first records, first two records and signed the band. After the show, he was like, if I had known, you'd still be singing of 30 whatever years later, we could have put the keys back for you, you know? That was like, that wasn't how it worked back then. Because you know, in rock and roll, you get, you know, you have the verse and then you get to the chorus and you want to get it exciting. Yeah. You want to knock it up a notch, you know? But we don't change the meaning. I like that. I mean, my voice has changed, obviously, but it's still the same key.

2:10:20Do you wonder how long you're going to do it? Do you ever think about stopping? I don't. I do sometimes. I mean, you know, the pandemic was funny for me because at first, not financial three things or whatever, it was just like, you know, since I was a teenager pretty much, this is what we do, we tour and we do concerts and we make music blah, blah, blah. And I was like, maybe I'm gonna go a little kooky, not doing it. And then I really, I mean, I had horrible days like everyone else, you know, despair and fear and stuff of the unknown. But a lot of those days, like, I'm like, I have a lot of interests, you know what I mean?

2:11:07I have a lot of others. I'd like to write a book. I'd maybe like to write more than one book, you know? Find my voice outside of the musician in another artistic way or whatever, and just loving my wife and living life. Yeah, and you know moving to Sicily, but I a lot of those things you you know, I'm not ready to do that now, but also I look ahead and I'm like to Do I want to be on stage when I'm 75? Do I want to a difference if I have to? I don't know I guess I'll call it when I if I'm lucky enough to get to 75 I know it I get through the end of the week you know what I mean? But I do, I love it.

2:11:57But for that event gave me the perspective of there's other, I don't wanna, you know what I mean? I would hate to be, I've always hated the idea that this is all I could do. That might sound weird, but. No, no, it's a great talk. Because I'm born to do it. I love that kind of scenario. Like, you know, like this is my wife's, like when I watch you, we're friends. when I see you in your element, this is obviously what you're supposed to do. But I think I have am, I don't know if ambition is the right word, but I definitely have interest in things that have nothing to do with this. Yeah. Well, that's part of being a human, right?

2:12:35You don't want to be isolated to one specific interest. And I'm so many fascinating things. And the isolation, that's a thing too. And I'm really happy with,

2:12:49I mean, I don't know. But the one thing I like about my life is I'm not the kind of, I'm not so well known that I still can't do my own grocery shopping. I love to cook. I like to go to the market. I like to pick out my shits, you know, or that you can't get, you know what I mean? We have access to the whole world. You know, and I don't have to worry about anyone giving a shit. You know what I mean? Yeah. Or the people that do like it, that come up to me wherever I am in the world, they're usually real fans, they're not celebrity people. Right, right. So they're like, and I saw you at the, when you played this song, you know, not the other thing about music, it's like rock music.

2:13:31You know, you can be, you can do a lot of stuff, but you know, one thing about the songs we've written, and I meet people, and people play the songs we've written at weddings and at funerals. You know what I mean? Not just parties and not just things, but like, you know, my brother, I wrote, you know, when we wrote, she talks to angels, I get, I'm, I always have time and I'm always humbled by people's experiences with that song and addiction and things in their lives, whether it's them, family member, that loss, or people that have overcome things, you know what I and that we, you know, just wrote that song one day when we were kids and that means so much to people.

2:14:16And there's a lot of songs like that in our repertoire that people come up to. I mean, really funny things sometimes. Like people will pick some song. I'm like, that was your wedding song. I'm like, okay. It's weird. Tell us more obscure. You know, like some weird, like this song called nonfiction. It's like, we walked down the aisle to non, I'm like the nonfiction, really? It's kind of a dark song. I'm arguing. Well, that's it. You're giving out, you know, with music. It's like it's an art form that changes people's feeling. It's, when you hear a great song, it literally gives you energy. Completely.

2:14:52It's a drug. It really is. It's like an audio. Exactly the same. I mean, we, I mean, it's maddening to be with me because this is the only time during this day that I don't have music on. But I, you know what I mean? but I listen to French music from the 20s and I listen to Peruvian coombias from the 70s or avant -carde electronic composers, whatever. Or blues and rock and roll and jazz and rock and r &b and whatever. But a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Well that means you're doing the right thing. Well I also need it like you just said, not only just for energy, but for some soulful connection as well. And, you know, when, especially with, you know, when I was younger, we all suffer from depression.

2:15:45And some people have a more acute relationships with that. But, you know, if there's a certain melon collie that comes over me, there's only some artist that can, I can sail across that deep water with. You know what I mean? To kind of assure me that I'm not the only one. We're not the only ones that feel this way. We're not the only ones that are, you know, life is, life is what it is. You know what I mean? Like, no matter how rich you are, no matter how successful you are, no matter who you are, you still have to deal with the ups and downs of it. Absolutely. And I think adversity is the thing that really makes us who we are.

2:16:32You know, That's one thing as like being a father. I'm like, I'm not afraid of the adversity my kids face. As a matter of fact, that's what I really want to get to is how, because what makes us who we are is how we deal with adversity. And if you don't deal with any adversity, it's not good. And if you push it under the table, or this or that, and avoid it. Yeah, then where are you? You know what I mean? Where's the, and the great, and it's, these things are cliches, but the greatest lessons are the hardest ones. You know what I mean? Those are the ones that stick to you the most. Yes. And those are the ones that make you grow.

2:17:07I have a great friend who's in a fantastic band. They just opened for us. We've been friends. He's named as Jim Jones. This band's called the Jim Jones All Stars. He was in a band called The Hypnotics. And we've known each other for 30 years. And he went through really deep heroin addiction in the 90s. And it's funny to talk to him, and I love him, you know, he's, but he's like, yeah, man, it was something, it was a lesson, you know what I mean? I'm like, that's a fucking tough lesson. And I'm happy you're still here to talk about it. But I love his attitude, you know what I mean? I love that spirit in people, you know what I mean?

2:17:48That it didn't, you know, I learned from this. And I've moved on from this. and I don't have any regrets, I don't have any resentment towards this or anger towards about it and it's no one's doing but my own. That responsibility, take responsibility for stuff, you know, is a big and that's that's important. And I think we see a lot of that gone away, you know what I mean with people.

2:18:16And every story is different, you know what I mean? And And everything is the same. What is real and what isn't real between there, that's for everyone to figure out for people. But the fact that that can be captioned as song. And like you said, sort of carry you through these bad moments. We realize like other people are experiencing grief, hardship, depression, darkness, terrible thoughts of loss. And that's the reason why those songs are so popular. It's not like people want to suffer. like no there's like something they're resonating with. And anger is a part of that too, you know what I mean?

2:18:52And it's funny like what's the newer music? I'm like you guys, the world looks pretty shitty. Aren't you guys pissed a little bit? Are you just like no, I'm just gonna get some likes and my pants fit right and my hair is good. I'm like okay, I get pop music is light sometimes, but I would like for the young people to, I'd like to see in the art a little more anger. Well, I'd like to see more rock. You know, it's like, when I'm looking at music coming up today, there's a great absence of strong new rock bands that seem like rock bands from the past. Guitar bass. Yeah, I mean, God damn it, people still love that music.

2:19:35What the fuck is going on? Yeah, you go see ACDC there at a fucking stadium. Yeah. You go see Metallica there at a stadium. So people are going, so what the fuck happened? Where is everybody? I mean, I think it's definitely there. It's again, I think people, some reason, think the music business is supposed to be the gauge or they're just like any other fucking salesman. They always have been. Just because one salesman had a cool taste and one didn't, don't kid yourself. They're not artists, they're salesmen. And there's cool people and not cool people, but they're not, you know what I mean? And I think like, now we live in a time, and you see it a lot, you see people making comments about it in our industry about how you're just following.

2:20:25Whereas before, yeah, you had things that were popular, but someone said, fuck, sign the stooches. Yeah, you know, Danny Fields did that, but he had great taste, but he was still a record company guy, a business side of it. Someone said, science is usually in the banshees or whatever. Someone said, dude, Bob Dylan, you didn't know when they made first Bob Dylan record that he'd be 83 years old, Bob Dylan, you know what I mean? And a lot of people said don't sign him. He's not marketable, he's not commercial. And, you know, that's my thing. I'm looking for still the Maverick Spirit or somebody who does have the wear with all and or vision to see that maybe something is a little bit outside the box still could have not just, it would have importance and it can be popular as well.

2:21:23Well, of course, and it always has been that way. The idea that that can't, that everyone has a short attention span now and we're interested in frivolous things. No, that's not true. That's just still junk food. It's still junk food. Right. And there's still people that like a nice meal I'm glad you're out there, dude. Thanks. Thanks for doing this. I really appreciate it. It was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed talking to you I got to talk about a lot of weird stuff. Yes, sir. Thank you very much. Cheers. Bye everybody

From the publisher

Chris Robinson is the lead singer and co-founder of the rock band The Black Crowes. The bands critically acclaimed and first new album in 15 years "Happiness Bastards” is out now.
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#2177 - Chris Robinson

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