#2194 - Luis Elizondo

26:06This is, this is something different. Right. What is the oldest video footage or film footage that you have ever seen or heard? Civilian or military? Doesn't matter. Like, what is the oldest, where it's like, okay, what the fuck is this? What's the oldest stuff that's compelling? So, the point is, what I'm trying to get at is a lot of people point to the possibility that there's some sort of a secret program, some sort of secret propulsion, gravity based, whatever it is, that's completely different than conventionally. There's no propulsion systems that the US government has and that they're operating these drones.

26:43And the problem with that is always the, like, the Kenneth Arnold sightings, the Roswell, the sightings from the time where that technology just wasn't available at all. Joe, I'm so glad you asked me that question. It just so happens. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something.

27:14I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something.

27:28I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something. I brought you something.

27:35I got you something. I up here where you are sitting here. Sure, Pastor.

27:45What occurred in the New Mexico skies during the past 18 months and are continuing to occur. And secondly, that these phenomena are occurring in the vicinity of sensitive military and government installations. And if you wanted to go back to like paragraph two, there you go. The highlighted part? Yeah, the observers of. The observers of those phenomenon include scientists, special agents of the Office of Special Investigations, the U .S. Air Force, airline pilots, military pilots, Los Alamos security inspectors, military personnel, and many other persons of various occupations whose reliability is not questioned.

28:23And they'll scroll to the top of the very top of that document. And it says that it was determined above that. The summary of observations of aerial phenomenon in the New Mexico area, December 1948 to May 1950. And the data that talked me, if you scroll a little bit higher, you are going to see the date of that memo. This episode is brought to you by Life Lock. Tax season is already stressful. You shouldn't have to worry about identity theft on top of everything else. And trust me, it's a big worry, especially since during tax season, your sensitive info does a lot of traveling to places you can't control.

29:00It goes through payroll, your accountant, or your tax consultant, and countless other data centers on its way to the IRS. Any of them can expose you to identity theft because they all have the info on your W2, just the ticket for criminals to steal your identity. It's no wonder, last year, the IRS reported tax fraud due to identity theft went up 20%. You need Life Lock. They monitor millions of data points per second and alert you to threats you could miss. If your identity is stolen, Life Lock's US -based restoration specialist will fix it back by the million dollar protection package. And restoration is guaranteed or your money back.

29:44Don't let identity thieves take you for a ride. Get Life Lock Protection for Tax Season and Beyond. Join now and save up to 40 % your first year. Call 1 -800 -LIFLOCK and use the promo code JRE or go to lifelock .com -jre for 40 % off. Terms apply. 19. Oh, 1950. Yes, sir. May, 2015, 1950. It says that it was determined that the frequency of unexplained error phenomena in the New Mexico area was such that an organized plan of reporting these observations should be undertaken. So this is the beginning of Project Blue Book. So this is the recognition that we have a serious problem over our sensitive military installations.

30:34This is nothing new. This is not 1970s reverse engineered technology or some sort of special technology. 1950, they're talking about that. We just broken the sound barrier and we had not yet entered into space. And we have these things that are performing in ways that frankly we can't replicate. I brought a few more of these later on to emphasize that point you just brought up at some point if you're interested. Yeah. But it highlights that these are official government documents through official government personnel raising the alarm bells just like we did in OSHAP and ATIPS. And so this is nothing new.

31:11Now, if you want to look at this from an adversarial perspective, let's, our governor's already said that's not ours, right? If you look at a 1950 saber jet, for example, it wasn't even supersonic. And yet these things that we are observing in some cases are doing about some more documents here, multiples of mock at doing velocities and doing things that we frankly could not do back then. And frankly, we still can't do in some cases. But to probably speaking, the only two countries in the world may have a chance of doing something like that would be Russia and China. And now in 1950, where it was China, it was in the middle of a famine and at the time and where it was Russia.

31:50Russia was trying to develop the atomic bomb and still was using horse -drawn carts for a lot of their military operations. So temporally speaking, it doesn't make sense. This is the analogy I've used before, Joe, that it would be like the Carter going into King Tut's tomb for the very first time in the 1920s, discovering King Tut's tomb. And when he goes in, he finds a fully assembled 747 jet. It doesn't make sense. Temporally speaking, they did not have that technology. So is it possible, and I'll be very careful what I say, that the US government has some sort of exotic technology? Well, my answer is I sure hope so, because we want to have an advantage over our adversaries.

32:36But in 1950, that wasn't the case. Right. And do they have any film of these crafts from New Mexico? There is film of many crafts. And not just New Mexico, per se, but over many military installations here. I got another one for you. I'll provide you. You don't want to waste your time reading it. But I think you'll appreciate this. Take a look at the date of this, and who it's to and who it's from. And I think you'll find the subject line very interesting. OK, which one? What part of my reading here? Just to highlight a portion. So you can see the top of the document, who it's from, who it's to and the date, and what the subject line is.

33:14Director, special investigator, what does it say? It's hard, because it's all scratchy. Yeah, so it's an old reproduction of official government documents. Bottom line, it's a document from J. Edgahuever. Oh, I say. From the director of the F .J. No. Department of the Air Force, the Pentagon. Yeah, J. Edgahuever, director of Federal Bureau of Investigations. And so read the subject line of that memo. Flying. It's God. It's God. It's hard to read, because it's all screwy. Flying discs, I should say. Flying discs over the savanna. It's a, there's a sensitive facility that we had where we were doing atomic development.

33:56Yeah, flying discrefortally seen the vicinity of something river plant. savanna river plant, yes sir. Okay. That's correct. And so that's just atomic energy commission. And the date of that being, you know, 1952, right? So, so this is a, this is verified. This is, that was released by the government. That is a, those are all official. So all these are official US government documentation that anybody can pull up anytime they want. Did they let you see any of these ancient films, these films from the 1950s of these things? So great question. Our focus was really more modern time. It was more like taking a picture where we are now.

34:34I mean, but wouldn't you want to just like, if you, if you really think this thing is from somewhere else, the best example of it definitely not being ours is something from the 1950s. Sure. And anecdotally, that's, that's great. But keep in mind on the backdrop of national security when you go to a general as you say. This is something that's up by the way. It's crazy. It's like half the things you've wanted out and scratching. Yeah, that's Uncle Sam for you. You know, when you go to a general or, you know, it makes me suspicious. No, you can find that. No, no, no, no, no, no, but it's just like, yeah, the government released that.

35:06I mean, they, they, they admit that that's there. What are those fucking shitty old 1920 facts machine? Look at that. Well, they're, remember, they were using typewriters back then too, right? And they're in the ink smears. Yeah, blotchy. And I'm sure the original is probably much, much cleaner. But that's what the government put out online for people to review. So when you're going back to your, quite answer your question, when you are going to a general or you're going to a military leader about this topic, if you go back to anecdotal stuff, like, oh, this is something from 1950s, they're not interested.

35:35They're like, look, what is going on now? Right. What is the threat now? I've got a carrier strike group out in the water. I'm getting reports. These things are coming in and interrogating the ship. You know, what I want to see that I want to see the videos I want to see the reporting. I want to see the, the, the, the deck logs and what the commander says. And I want to know the pilots want to talk to the pilots, the radar operators. Right. That's their focus. They're not interested in that. Whether we try it a few times. And the further back in time we go, the less interested they were. So it was really, yeah, it was really the current information.

36:05What's going on now? I'm not interested in what happened. They're just taking a pragmatic approach. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's understandable from a military perspective, a national security perspective. The other stuff is interesting. And from the general public's perspective, you know, they're interested. But from a national security perspective, they're like, hey, man, that was three decades ago. Right. I need, I need now. Right. So it is understandable, a little frustrating, because you want to, you want to demonstrate, look, boss, this is, this is nothing new. Right. This is a repeated pattern that we're seeing here.

36:34But they're more interested in the here and now. So did they have repeated footage? Because you're saying three decades, but obviously we're talking about 1950. Did they have stuff from the 1980s, stuff from the 1990s? They're always reporting. Yeah. And again, I got to be careful because some of that stuff I have been clear to talk about. But there are reports, we call foreign intelligence, F5, foreign intelligence reports. And I can't say where or who or anything like that. But on classified systems, where we know without a shadow of a doubt, UAPs were encountered in other countries, adversarial countries.

37:06Why? Because we spy on them. And we know. Again, I can't say how we know and what not. I understand. And trouble, but just so we know this is not a United States phenomenon. Precisely. It is not a US -only phenomenon. And in fact, in other countries, whether it's in Latin America, South America, or in Europe, or Russia, China, there is an extreme interest in this topic. In fact, the Chinese, it was in the newspaper. I think it was a China morning sun. And there's something called the Five Continent Initiative, where allegedly they were trying to broker a deal with the United Nations that would allow China to run all the UFO investigations for the United Nations.

37:47So we also know that Russia. They've come out and said, yeah, we're interested in this topic. There were some released old KGB footage that showed MIG interactions with these UAP. And there's also in Latin America. You have the same thing. If you go to Latin America now, they don't have the same level of stigma and taboo associated with this topic like we do. And so they talk freely about it. They have no problem talking. In fact, when I was in the Patagonia area of Argentina, there is a near town called Bariloche and Las Lajas. One of the chief of police was telling me that there's an area. They're called La Miranda.

38:22La Miranda means to see, to view. And they call it that, the town. And because UAP are so frequent there, that local law enforcement actually built an observatory and observation post to look at these things because they were so frequent. So this is not a new phenomenon. This is something that's been around for quite a long time. The problem is, in my opinion, and I could be wrong, but this is my assessment. The reason why it's so difficult to have the conversation here is because our government had placed so much emphasis and interest trying to stigmatize this topic that it almost worked too well.

38:56Now we're at the point where we should be having this conversation and people still don't want to because they think it's crazy. You think it's 10 foil hats and Elvis on the mothership. When in reality, we're talking about a real national security issue. I mean, these things are here. You have Joe. You have a former director of national intelligence, Radcliffe, a former director of CIA. Brennan, you have former presidents all coming out and saying, yeah, there's something to it. It's real. Right? Now what it is, where it's from and all that stuff, I'm not sure we're quite ready to go there yet.

39:26But the acknowledgement is, hey, man, yeah, this is real. Well, it's not ours and we probably should do something about it. So if we go back to the history of the debunking of it, you know, like the project blue book stuff, Jay Allen Heineck, after he had left project blue book, he became a proponent of UFO disclosure. During project blue book, it was his job to essentially dismiss everything and to come up with some sort of a reason swamp gas, mass hallucinations, whatever it was to attribute all these sightings to something that was very easy to explain. Did they ever, is there any documentation or any discussion of why they did that, why they chose to debunk everything?

40:11Yeah, my understanding is you have to look at where America was at the time they were doing these investigations. It was at the height of the Cold War, right? And you know, despite what some people think, the Cold War wasn't very cold at all. It was pretty hot. And we had Russian, the United States engaging in these proxy wars. Neither side wanted to let the other side know what we had and what we didn't know, right? So if you have these UAP coming in and out, the last thing you want to do is tell the other side broadcast, this is what we've learned from it. And more importantly, this is what we don't know about it.

40:44And so both sides were keeping this very quiet, but there was an interesting agreement at the classified level, I believe in the late 60s, where there was this relationship with the United States. We were putting up our Northern Tier Red, our system to detect then Soviet Union ICBMs. And they were doing the same thing, right? Because none of us really trusted each other. But we trusted each other enough to say, look, before you hit that button, if you see something coming over the horizon, before you hit that button and launch, give us a call because it might be a UFO, right? And we don't want to start World War III because either side mistakes a UFO for an ICBM.

41:21Right. And that's how seriously they took the topic. I mean, that's real memo that existed between the United States and Russia. So that is an indicator how much both sides took this topic seriously. Mm -hmm. Jesus. And so when Philip Corso was dismissing all these different things, did they have anything, any film footage, any stuff from that time, from Project Blue Book, that was like definitively not ours? I'm not privy to what I'm aware of the fact that people say it does exist and people have been briefed on it. I wasn't privy to that. I was again more focused on the here and now. Right. I was aware of people who had attended certain meetings, very senior level meetings where that was discussed, where they saw certain footage.

42:09But that's, I'm hearing that second hand. I did not see the old footage. My focus was more on the current what's going on now. But back to your point, why was this effort to try to create some of its stigma in taboo? I think it was because of that. I think because you had Russia and US at this weird stalemate, where neither one wanted to tell the other side what we know and what we did know about UAP. And really, I think the focus from a national security perspective, let's say you're a general and I'm a general, look, we've got a real cold war going on here right now. As long as these things aren't coming in and zapping my people, that's going to be my focus right now.

42:46That's a real potential threat that I have to deal with now. I've got Russia pointing nukes at me and I'm pointing nukes at them. At any time we could launch, let's focus on that more so than the other stuff. And that was, that has been my observation on why they didn't want to address the problem, the challenge openly with the general public back. And they also were worried there was several studies that suggested that most people would be very uncomfortable with that idea that there's something else in the cosmos potentially or even right here on earth and that it would create some sort of societal disruption, right?

43:23They didn't want to cause panic. They were afraid that people would kind of like think of a run on Wall Street, right? When people get panic, they do kind of strange things sometimes. And I think the government was very worried about that. What's the most compelling, modern thing that you've seen? Oh my God, I can't talk about it, unfortunately. That's what's, that's, this is my frustration, Joe, because I know what I've seen. I know what my colleagues are seeing, right? And to this day, there's, there's video that's coming in on a regular routine basis that is very, very compelling. And if they're, how they hide this stuff from the general public.

43:53Well, we have classified systems behind a lot of things. Right, but how is it, how is it getting filmed? Is any of it getting filmed by the general public or is all this military stuff? So let me backtrack a little bit this. There is, there, there's a general public that is filming stuff. But from a Department of Defense perspective, our focus now, eros a different story, but when I was in the government, we had to be very, very careful of something we called intelligence oversight. Back in the 60s and 70s, the US intelligence apparatus, particularly in the Department of Defense, was kind of naughty.

44:24They were doing things they shouldn't do. They were spying on students and they were spying on American citizens. You don't do things. Yeah, crazy. It's seen as and so. So Congress passed some laws and said, okay, you can no longer do this kind of stuff on, on, on American citizens, right? You can't conduct intelligence operations on American citizens. You can't do it, see legal, right? So you have executive order, one, two, triple three, and all these other rules and laws and duty 5240. I won that all come out and say, no, moss. So Department of Defense is supposed to focus on military. That's it.

44:58You don't, you don't bring in US persons information and adjust them into a Department of Defense database, especially a Department of Defense intelligence database. That's a super no -no. That's called US persons information and it's pretty much for Bowton. So our focus was looking specifically at military sourced information. I was not focusing at all on what the private citizens were seeing because at the end of the day, we couldn't use it. You can't, you can't do anything with it. And it seems like you got plenty of compelling footage from the military. Overwhelming. Overwhelming. There's absolutely no doubt that we didn't have to look at civilian data because we had better collection sensor systems from the military that was looking at stuff and giving us better insight.

45:38If you can't tell us about, can you give us some sort of an understanding of what you're talking about? Yeah, sure. Without being specific? Yeah, let me see. Okay, yeah. There is a video, high resolution video. I can't say what platform was taken from. I can't say where was taken from. But an object that, you know, do you know how large an offshore oil derrick is? They're huge. They're like, they're almost like a small city, right? They're like one city block. They're huge. They're enormous things. There is a video that shows one of these objects under water that goes by. The speed was calculated between 415 and 515 knots.

46:27Under water. And it was bigger than the offshore derrick that it was passing because you could see in the video the offshore derrick and you could see this thing zip right by it. Jesus. Yeah. So that's a lot of them, right? A lot of them are reported as being transmidiums. Right. So that exactly, why do we use a term UAP, right? Now it's unidentified anomalous phenomenon because it's all domain. Initially it was UFO, unidentified flying object. And for several reasons they changed the name. One of them not just because it's stigma like people think but because the word flying object means flight.

47:04And you have to have wings to fly. That's flight. And these things don't have wings. So that term we're not even sure is even accurate anymore because they're not just flying. We see them underwater. We see them super high altitude. So the term was changed to unidentified aerial phenomenon. But again, that did not encompass all the observations we were seeing. So now the term UAP, I think the latest description of it is unidentified anomalous phenomenon to help describe this multi domain or transmedium characteristic that we are beginning to see and record that these things can do. And that is, I'm going to, if I can digress for a second because that's super important, Joe.

47:46We have transmedium vehicles, right? We have things like sea planes. And it's a plane and it can float on water. But let's face it, a sea plane is neither a really good plane or a really good boat because it's a compromise. It's a design compromise between an object that you want to perform in the air and in the sea. And that's why it's neither really good at both. Same thing with, for example, a space shuttle. It goes out into space and it can glide down but it's not a very good airplane. It comes down like a brick. You know, because there's design compromises and performance compromises. But what we are seeing doesn't have any of that attributable compromise.

48:22It's not, these objects aren't slowing down. They're not changing their performance capabilities. They can do the same thing that we're seeing in the air and possibly in space and even underwater. So that is a fundamentally different type of technology than we are used to dealing with. Is the assumption that they are doing something with space time and gravity around them rather than using something like jet propulsion engine that blasts fire out the back and it makes it go fast forward. That they're doing something that alters the gravity around them. Yeah, so that's why they can go through everything.

49:04Yeah, so we have had some of the best scientists on the team, folks like Dr. Hal Pudoff and some other folks that are not allowed to say their names. Dr. Arctavis and some others that were doing the calculations. Mathematical calculations on how this is possible and the consensus was by the scientists, not me, because I'm not a physics expert, I'm not a astrophysicist. They were saying that, so let me back up here. Initially, the government for years was trying to identify the different exotic technologies that could explain the different performance characteristics. And it was during the A -tip years that the scientists had this consensus that if you had one type of technology, if you could do one thing, all these other observables now become possible.

49:54Kind of think of like a unifying theory. And so if you had the ability to create this bubble around you in a localized area that insulated you from the effects of Earth's gravity, now what is gravity? People think that when I drop my glasses, that's gravity. That's not gravity. That's an effect of gravity. Gravity is the warping of space time. And that's important because people don't, you hear the term thrown around a lot, but they don't realize that space and time are actually connected. They are one in the same, they're up to the sides, if you will, at the same point. And so you can't have one without the other.

50:32And so you have this ability to create a bubble around you that insulates you from the warping of space time, let's say in this case, Earth's gravity or something like that. Then the way you experience time inside that bubble is perhaps fundamentally different than the way you might experience space time outside that bubble because you're not subject to the effects of gravity, which would explain potentially, potentially why things don't need wings and why they don't need propulsion systems like that, right? So it's a completely different way of looking at how we understand physics and how we, as humans, move about.

51:12Everything we do is fundamentally force equals mass times acceleration, f equals mA, right? Mass times acceleration and you force. This may be something a little bit different. This is not using, again, conventional thrust or if I put you know, Newtonian, right? If I push this way, I have an equal and opposite reaction that way, right? That's how we understand it. Are there any theories as to how it's accomplishing this? There is actually Dr. Hal Putoff about three years ago gave a speech on this, a very interesting talk lecture about this technology. If you ever have the chance, you really should have him on because he's an incredible human being.

51:50He's also the one who helped start the government's remote viewing program and a bunch of other stuff for the government. He's been involved in a lot of our nations, probably most classified efforts. But he was working with us on A -tip as one of our scientists and he gave a lecture about three years ago to some other scientists about the specifics on how this is possible. I am not a scientist, so I definitely not going to speak on behalf of Hal Putoff because I'm sure I will muck it up. But I do recall a time when he came into our skiff and gave us about a three hour lecture on this unifying theory.

52:22And at that moment, it was very much for us the epiphany that a lot of us had been searching for. He's like, look, at the end of the day, this is how it's possible. And that was kind of this wow. So it's really not. Can you give us a more on view of how it's possible? Yeah, explain it to someone like me. Yeah, well, I'm in that category, Joe.

52:44Single syllable grunts, right? You have an object like this cup on your table and you want it to be insulated from the effects of Earth's gravity. So you create this bubble artificially using a certain energetic source at a certain frequency and it interacts with certain material, certain metamaterial. And again, I get to be careful exactly what I say, but certain skin of the craft, this aluminum be the cup here. And all of a sudden, you have this bubble around you where what you see on the outside is not necessarily what you see on the inside. In fact, may it do it? Sure. More drawing for you.

53:25Okay, and forgive me, I'm not an artist. So I'm going to do this upside down for you and then I'm going to kind of scoot this just a little here. All right, let's do this. So, unfortunately, I know your audience can't see this, but actually it's probably okay. Some people can. There's a video form of it. Well, I'm sure this will get on a little bit on YouTube as well. It's probably good that they do because I'm not an artist. Okay. So let's say this is a two -dimensional representation of a three -dimensional space. Okay. And in essence, so what you've done is essentially you created a three -dimensional looking grid stacked, looked like stack boxes on top of each other.

54:11Yeah, right. And so you have this, you have location A and location B. And let's say I go from Los Angeles to Baltimore. Okay. And it takes me five hours to fly at 500 miles an hour. That's a function of distance over time. And in essence, you can mark that linearly like this. So I fly, take me five hours, there I am. Okay. If you had the ability to compress space time, and not a lot, just a little bit, and you were able to allow these points to be a little closer together, now in essence, what took you, let's say, five hours and 500 miles an hour to do it, you can do it in one hour. And you can do it in much less time.

54:55But to the observer outside, because we're still in the same universe, we would see something like that. We would see this incredible hopscatching ability to, if you will, take a shortcut through space time. And so what would appear to be instantaneous acceleration, hyper -sonic velocity, and other things, now becomes a reality. And so that is fundamentally what the scientists had discovered. And so it seems like science fiction, but when you understand the mathematics, and some of the theorem that they propose, a lot of these other observables become possible. So these are essentially just theoretical explanations of how these things are moving.

55:39Yeah, and again, I'm not a scientist. I want to be very careful. I don't want to misrepresent anything. There's a whole lot of other stuff that if you can do that, all of a sudden now makes sense, and may describe the observations that people are seeing and why they're kind of hard to see, and they seem obscure. And so I think from a governmental perspective, it was kind of a revelatory moment for the folks in our program. So they realized one of the reasons why these things are weird looking is because they're literally creating one light. Do you mind? I'm sorry.

56:23So the back thing, the other side, push that down.

56:31Thank you very much. No problem. So how much of this is theoretical and how much of this is observed from recovered vehicles? I am not allowed to talk about what the government may or may not have in its possession, other than that. So I went through a very lengthy Pentagon review process. Recently, I wrote something, but I wrote something, and I had to go through Pentagon to have a review process. It took almost a year. In this thing, I wrote, I talk about up to the part I can talk about, and they approved for me to talk about up to that point. What it comes to with the government may or may not have in its possession.

57:13All I can simply say is that there is very compelling evidence to suggest that the U .S. government is an absolute possession of exotic material that is not made by humans. Now, beyond that, I can't really expound upon it. I haven't been given permission to talk about it, but what I can say is what I've already said for the record, which has been approved by the Pentagon. Well, getting trouble by saying it is that there is very compelling data to suggest that we are in possession of it. Why is the Pentagon teasing us? Why are they allowing you to say we are in possession of something that was not made by human beings, but not allowed to elaborate, not allowed to show these very compelling videos that you're talking about that you've seen?

58:02I don't, well, two reasons. I don't think they have a choice. I think with now the introduction of cell phones and ring cameras, the cat's out of the bag. It's the worst kept secret at this point. Two, there is a faction, unlike before in the Cold War. I believe there is a faction of people inside the government that do want this conversation to occur. But equally, there's still a faction of people that are very mad with me. They do not want me having this conversation and mark my words. Just by me being on your show, it is going to cause an absolute storm inside the Pentagon. And I am sure the other shoe is going to drop.

58:39I promise you, you're going to hear all sorts of stuff. People make stuff up about me trying to discredit this topic because as many people are in the government that want this topic to be discussed now, there's still some people that do not want this could you steal man their position? Say again, steal man their position, meaning could you argue it from their perspective? Absolutely. Why? It would be a good reason to keep this stuff quiet. Sure. And I want to preface here. I'm not fear mongering. No, I don't think so. Look, if I was a military person, right, I would look at this from the perspective of there's three options.

59:17They're good, they're neutral, or they're bad. So let's go down this road for a second. Let's say they're good, right? Well, we got nothing to worry about. The problem is, there's nothing to suggest that they truly are benevolent. People say, well, you know, they're like, they don't want us to nuke ourselves. Well, you know, I discussed it in what I wrote that there's no, there's no, there's no data to suggest that. They didn't stop us from dropping atomic bombs in Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and vaporizing 500 ,000 living souls. They didn't stop us when we started developing nuclear weapons from the atomic age.

59:50They didn't stop the proliferation of nuclear weapons. They didn't stop the testing and the Nevada range of atomic and nuclear weapons. And now, how many countries have atomic weapons and nuclear weapons? A lot, right? They didn't stop Chernobyl. They didn't stop Fukushima. They didn't stop through Milo Island. So to say that they're here to help us, I'm not sure there's data. People say, well, you know, in my knot and North Dakota and Montana, the UFOs came in and they stopped, they interfered with our nuclear weapons and they brought the entire echo flight offline. But you, by the way, have the government report on that if you want it.

1:00:27But in Russia, a lot of people don't know, they turn them on. Right? So that's equally scary. They're interfering with our nuclear capability, whether to attack or to defend ourselves. When you say they turn them on in Russia, this is a Russian report? So this is a, I don't know if you remember the hearing, congressional hearing that occurred last year where the... But Dave and Grush? Nope. The other one with Undersecretary Defense for Intelligence, Ronald Moultry and some people from the Navy. And I think it was Congressman Gallagher that asked the very specific question. And he said, are you aware of UFOs interfering with our nuclear capabilities?

1:01:06And the response was something like, no, not really familiar with it, never heard of it. And then the question was, I think we asked specifically at these locations. And their government's response was, no, not familiar with it. Well, here's the actual report from the Department of Defense. This is the actual Intelligence report that was released through FOIA. There's a gentleman out there who runs a site called the Black Vault. His name is John Greenwald. He's probably the world authority on Freedom of Information Act. And he has a wealth of data that is out available to the public that he has received from the government.

1:01:38This is one of those documents. This is the document that our own government has no idea apparently exists. I like how they write it in all caps. Yeah, they're still the old reporting. So obviously there's some people that don't want this to be released. And obviously there's some people that think that the general public has a right to know. I believe so. That's my, that's been my observations and my experiences. Well, that makes sense. You know, I mean, like when everybody says the CIA does this, like, okay, who? Well, we in the CIA. I didn't finish though the other parts, right? So if they're not here for a friend, if they're not, it's not friendly.

1:02:13Right. That leads them neutral like us. Right. Or benevolent. Benevolent. Now, from military perspective, and I just want to caveat, I don't agree with this, but I can respect the understanding you, sir, are general. And I say, and I say, we cannot prove that they're not here to do something bad. But what we do know is that they can interfere. They're very interested in our military capabilities. And they have interfered with our nuclear capabilities. Right. From a military perspective, that looks an awful lot like if something we call IPB, initial preparations of the battle space, or perhaps even ISR intelligence surveillance or reconnaissance, whenever we're going to go into a foreign country and invade, we do long range surveillance.

1:02:56We want to know how the enemy operates, how they react. So even if there's a 2 % chance, 5 % chance that these things are here to do something malevolent, right? Mm -hmm. Then we probably should not tip our hands to the fact that we are aware of it publicly, because what happens the moment that the bad guys in a foreign country find our surveillance team over the border, we've got 12 hours, we've got to invade, because the element of surprise has now over. So some may feel in the government the mere fact of acknowledging this, if there is some sort of malintent, may push up artificially a clock that exists somewhere for these things to say, oh, okay, the full of humans are now, the cats out of the bag, they know we're here, we need to go in now for whatever reason they may have.

1:03:46So that is the military mindset potentially of some of these individuals who want to keep the secret. So they're worried about an actual invasion? Well, but they have to be. That is the role of our national security apparatus, right? Even if there's a 1 % chance, they have to consider that in their planning and in the decision -making matrix. So again, going back to what I said, I respect that, I don't agree with it, but I can respect that. If that is the reason why, then I would say, okay, look in your heart, you really do have the best interests of the American people. You are a patriot. I can accept that.

1:04:18Again, I don't think it's your decision to make. I think it needs to go to Congress. I think it needs to go to the President, let the American people decide. I think America can handle the truth. I think America deserves the truth and let the American people decide if it's in their best interests. I agree with you. But I also can see it from their perspective. They're probably insanely busy already. And the last thing they want to do is get involved in this thing where now they have a PR campaign, when they're trying to let people know about this thing and not cause mass panic. That's right. That's right.

1:04:49But you know what, though, I'm also very optimistic, Joe, because you and I are having this conversation and people aren't making a run on Wall Street. People are still paying their mortgages going to PTA meetings. And after the 2017 New York Times report, which was probably one of the biggest moments in UFO disclosure, because it was in the New York Times. And then you see something like that in the New York, especially in New York Times in 2017. People really respected it. It's like, this is a real story. Well, and this is a political. I mean, how many topics can you go to Congress and have that's not polarized?

1:05:23Right. Right. This is one of the only ones where you can have literally have congressman Bershatt and congresswoman AOC side by side agreeing that this this is important. Right. This is this is it's a very rare opportunity. And so, you know, my concern, I'm doing this because I believe it's the right thing to do. And my concern is that we're at a point now where I've said before, you know, secrets aren't like a fine wine where the longer you keep a cork on it, the better it gets. I think secrets are perishable. I think they have a shelf life. I think they're like vegetables in your refrigerator.

1:05:57And there comes a point where if you leave them there too long, they start to rot and they start to stink. And they become a big mess to clean up, right? And so that's my perspective. And what I'm trying to do is give the government an ability to work its way out of a corner that it's put itself into for the last several decades. And with no seeming way out, right? Right. Look around like, well, how do we get ourselves out of this trip? Is there an issue of legality, like of spending and like 100 % 100 % there's people that it should be liable for. Yes. Not being straightforward with Congress.

1:06:30And I know people want their pound of flesh. I know there's people out there, you've been lied to for decades and I want. And then they make it a political issue. Right. They go after someone for, yeah. And I think that's the wrong approach. I think, you know, there was a time where we needed to keep this secret. And I think what you do is you, you, you give those guys awards, give those guys and gals award to who did it. Don't don't make a man of me's make him friends and say, okay, look, but those were different times. Now's the time to, to, to come clean. Talk to the members of Congress. Forgive all the past sins.

1:06:58Yeah. Reconciliation. Reconciliation. 100 % and let's just get clear with all this and understand that it was all in good faith that you did it in the first place. 100%. Now all in the interest of the United States security, you talk about legal issues. The problem is there are the real legal issues. So let's say you have again, these cups forgive my analogies. You have two aerospace companies, company A, company B. And let's say I am in the Department of Defense back in the 50s, 60s and I come across this interesting technology. I have no idea what the hell it is. It just came out of the sky and I go to company A and I said, tell me what you can figure out about that.

1:07:35Right. 10 years later, company A becomes a multi -billion dollar aerospace company. Company B goes bankrupt, 200 people lose their jobs and now people who have stock investors in that company lose their money. Unfair advantage. Keep in mind, you're supposed to have fair competition in the US government. So if you give an unfair advantage to company A to B, you're talking a serious liability. There's SEC violations there. There's all sorts of concerns. One has to pay attention to because someone somewhere gave an unfair advantage to one company over another. So there are legal liabilities that we have to recognize.

1:08:11It's not just clear cut, okay, forgive and forget. There's going to have to be some additional protection and understanding for. If that occurred, we need to figure out how we deal with that as well. So that would be an impediment to release. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, these are big companies, right, with BD pockets and a lot of lawyers. Well, I mean, also, this is a discussion that we've had on here before. If you did find something, who would you bring it to? You bring it to the people that build your fucking jets. Like, hey, top secret agreement. You bring it to them in some sort of undisclosed facility.

1:08:51Best of bread. That's your best of bread. And bring the guys in and go, what the fuck is this thing? Yeah, you kind of have to. Otherwise, like, what else would you do? You know, I mean, how else do you find out how these things work? And if you were going to do it in a secretive manner, you would have to bring it to defense contractors because those are the only people that are capable of making things. They make your jets. They make they make the, you know, every stealth bomber, every, well, whatever the fuck it is, they make all that shit. Going back to, you know, a colleague of mine made the comparison.

1:09:22He said, look, Lou, imagine being during the days of Da Vinci and all of a sudden bringing Da Vinci a garage door opener. You have no idea what it's used for. Right. You've never seen plastic before. You don't even understand electromagnetic radiation, right? And infrared, you know, where do you start on the analysis and exploitation of a technology that the physics hasn't even been discovered yet? Right. I mean, garage door openers seem like magic. Right. It really does. You know, I press a button and a door opens like magic. Wait, where's the horse? Where's the strings? Where's that right? Yeah.

1:09:57So it's kind of bananas. You press a button on your car and all of a sudden your door opens, right? And you drive in and you press another button and it closes. And it's all done through the air, right? Which is bananas, magic, but we're just accustomed to it. That's right. Yeah. So this kind of technology, I'm sure you're aware of the Bob Lazar story. I'm aware. I don't know Bob. I've never met him. So you never got into that? I did not. How could you not with your line of work? Because, you know, I always wanted to be insulated from prejudicing the jury and I know it sounds kind of strange, but I didn't ever.

1:10:31You know, it's kind of something I impose on myself because I didn't want to have any preconceived notions of going in. Most people kind of, I suspect would be tempted to say, well, I'm going to learn everything I can about, you know, UFO lore. I wanted the opposite. You're a better man than me. I did. Well, I love I'm very, Jason. I get down. You know, I think I just, I just wanted to be very, very careful to preserve the investigative integrity, right? And we're, look, we're all humans. We're all bias. There's no way around it. We all have some degree of bias. Let's be honest and truthful here.

1:11:05It doesn't matter what type of bias it is. We all have some sort of bias somewhere whether it's food or the people you like to date or whatever. I wanted to avoid that as much as possible. And so I always kept it very, very focused on the here and now. And, you know, what, what can we see today? Right. You're aware of the story though, right? The basic tangentially. I did that he worked at a particular facility and at that facility, he was exposed to some sort of UAP technology. That thing, right? That thing right there, the sport model, and that he was brought in as a propulsion expert and to try to, they didn't know how it exactly worked.

1:11:46But they, they sort of just said, tell me what this is. Roger. And then along the way, he realized, oh, this isn't even ours. Yeah. I'm aware of, again, that overarching story. I don't know any of the details and I've never met him personally. So I'm very, very interesting guy. I had dinner with him with my friend Andrew Schultz and Jeremy Corbell. We went to dinner and, you know, informally talked and had a fascinating conversation. Jeremy is a great guy. He's a great guy. Yeah, he's really, you know, he's done a lot. He said, he said, uh, he's pumped that we're talking. Yeah, he's done a lot of his UFO nut.

1:12:23And he got me really way back in with his documentary, um, of Bobble's R, Flying Saucers, whatever the actual title of it is. But that, that documentary is fantastic. And it's essentially going over Bobble's R story from the 1980s to today, which he's told the exact same story, which is nuts that you have one giant lie your whole life. Like, come on. There's a lot of weirdness to the story. Obviously, um, like there is with everything, there's a lot of people that want to discredit his, um, his background and all sorts of other things. But the reality of what he's saying is essentially what we're seeing in these crafts, which is very strange.

1:13:01So he described how these things worked and how they moved and how they would turn sideways and sort of like project this, whatever this reactor that they have inside of them. And he talked about this element, element 115. They have a stable version of it that was essentially his theoretical at the time in 1980. No one, no one really knew whether or not that thing actually even exists 89 or whatever it was. And that it would douse this thing, project radiation upon it and it would create this warp, this gravity warp, this, this thing that allowed this, this craft to move in ways that defied our understanding.

1:13:42To hell of a lucky guess. To hell of a lucky guess. Hell of a lucky guess in 1989. Wow. And he drew it. He is diagrams of what this thing looked like and, you know, how it worked. And he essentially looked exactly like that little model that's on the desk there and that he felt like the whole, it didn't make any sense. He said the whole thing. It didn't have any seams, which now we understand 3D printing, right? So now we know that we can actually, but given. But only now wrap back then, right? Of course. Everything had rivets. Exactly. The skin of a craft was a skin of an aircraft. Exactly. And had rivets and hats and bolts and, you know, but now, you know, obviously now we have carbon fiber.

1:14:18We have a bunch of different ways to construct things. But back then, he didn't know what the fuck that thing was. He said it looked like it had all been melted, like into place, like that it had been like almost like smooth like wax, like melted wax. And that it had no instrumentation inside of it. And it was designed for very small things, like something that was like three feet tall. And that all these things seemed to operate through the being itself had some sort of connection to the craft, some sort of strange way of interfacing with the craft that didn't have anything to do with pulling levers and moving things.

1:14:54But Joe, is that really that much of a stretch? Let's look at this. You know, we've done experiments where we've had pilots be able to control aircraft thousands of miles away with a helmet that interprets thought. Right. So it's, you know, again, how does the helmet inter, is it similar to like a neural link setup? If you've seen the new video of the second neural link patient, I have not. There's video of him playing Counter Strike. Was it Counter Strike? Or is it, is that it? So Counter Strike, which is a very popular online 3D game. And this guy who does not have use of his body has this neural link implant.

1:15:30He's the second neural link patient. And apparently with each iteration, it gets more and more sophisticated and better. So this is a, from this person's point of view, he's playing this video game entirely with his mind. So he's better than I can with my, better than anybody can can be who has the first guy who the first neural link patient we had him on. And he said, essentially, it's like having an aim bot because you, you don't miss. You look at the thing you're trying to shoot at and instantaneously your crosshairs go there. Wow. Yeah. So he's, well, this stuff is taking place entirely. This is all him doing this entirely with his mind.

1:16:08But is that right? So if we can do that now, right? Is it really that far of a stretch to think that, you know, someone who's a little more advanced in us, right? Our friends from out of town, realize that's the way to do it. That's more efficient, right? The speed of the processing of the brain, the processes of the brain is much fowl takes us longer to then have to mechanically use our hands to manipulate and do things. This is almost not quite but almost instantaneous. You don't have that lag, right? Of course. And so that would certainly make sense. You know, modern warfare, not the game, but actually modern warfare is beginning to turn to them.

1:16:42We're using AI and all these other augmentation to enhance performance. And so I, I don't think that's out of the realm of of possibility. No, certainly not. I mean, just go from garage door openers to, you know, 500, 600 years ago, right? To today and then cell phones, the ability to send video across the world instantaneously, all those sophisticated stuff that we've just completely take for granted, because it's become a normal part of everyday life. That's, you know, I used to, I used to give a briefing to some folks. I'm so glad you mentioned this because it's, this goes back to the whole stigma taboo issue.

1:17:20I used to have a slideshow and I still have it somewhere. And I would, I would discuss the word, the Latin word prefix of para, P -A -R -A. And it means above or beside. And so what I would do is show up, I would say the word parachute. And I'd ask people, what do you think of when you hear the word parachute? And people would describe obviously something that deploys over your head and hopefully you hit the ground with it with a thumb and not a thud, right? But something that normal we use every day. And then I say, what about the word paramedic? And then people would look at and say, well, I think of a first responder, someone goes some, you know, some sort of medical life saver that's going to, going to be there for your benefit.

1:17:56And then I say the word, when I say the word paranormal, what do you think? And people will stop for a second. Maybe the kind of little slice smile and say, what do you mean? So what do you mean? I mean that paranormal. The only reason why you're reacting the way you are, because you've been conditioned that the word paranormal is, is, is cookie stuff. Cookie stuff. When in reality, in science, by definition, everything is paranormal until it becomes normal. The cell phone that I use every day, 50 years ago, absolutely paranormal. And so I would go through this exercise of things that were once considered paranormal.

1:18:28For example, when the Inca first saw the Spaniards, the conquistadores coming from the the reconquering, they saw them on the shores of the beach. And they saw these, these humans in armor riding on a horse. And they assumed, because they never seen a horse before, they assumed it was a single entity, it was a single monster. And that for them was paranormal. They didn't understand it was actually human riding on a horse with, you know, metal skin. Same thing with acupuncture. I remember a time when I was growing up as a kid, people thought Eastern medicine acupuncture was nonsense. Well, now at the Veterans Administration, the VA, for some of my guys in combat, they actually prescribe acupuncture as therapy.

1:19:04It's not paranormal, right? And so there's all these examples in history where we think something is cookie and we're when a reality, it's not. It's just we don't understand it yet. And we have done such a good job of stigmatizing this conversation that the moment you even say the word paranormal or you say the word UFO or anything like that, people are conditioned without even thinking about it's reflexive to react to certain way. And we have to first deprogram ourselves first a little bit before we can start moving forward. Okay, let's, how do we just de -stigmatize this conversation? Well, first of all, what's cookie?

1:19:42You know, what do you think is cookie about something that's in our airspace that's performing in ways that we can't replicate? You know, that's people say, well, you know, wait a minute, we spend millions, if not billions of dollars, putting a probe on Mars to try to find microbial life. And by the way, it looks like that might happen. It looks like there actually maybe some evidence to suggest that. We spend lots of money trying to find technosignatures of intelligent life, radio signatures in our own Milky Way, right? Well, is it possible within the four and a half billion years our planet's been here that maybe intelligent life maybe found us first?

1:20:21Is it possible? Could be, you know, we have to stop putting these, these limitations. Joe, when I was, when I was in the medical program, when I was learning to be a microbiology and immunology in college, we learned from our professor that Homo sapiens sapiens as a modern species has been around roughly between 100 ,000 to 200 ,000 years. Now, I'm not an expert, but that's what they say. It was only the Greeks 2 ,000 years ago that introduced the idea that there's only two types of life forms on this planet. And either you are either a a plant or b you're an animal. And it wasn't the last 300 years.

1:20:58So if you look at a 24 hour clock, roughly the last five minutes in the 24 hours towards midnight, we discovered another form of life that is neither plant nor animal that's been here with us on this planet. And that is the world of fungus. During the Renaissance and the days of Newton, we discovered that there was this other life form. We've been sharing it all along. And we saw we pat ourselves on the shoulder. And it wasn't the last 120 years. Think about it. The last 10 seconds of our existence on this planet. So to speak in a 24 hour clock as a modern species, we actually discovered the true dominant life form on this planet.

1:21:34And in fact, if you take all the biomass of every plant and the biomass of every animal and the biomass of every fungus and add it all together, it's still not equal the biomass of this hidden kingdom of life that's actually the dominant life form on this planet. And that wasn't until we were able to curve glass and look through a little steel tube and famously shout little beasties, little beasties. Did we discover the world of microorganisms that yes live inside of you and yes live on the skin of the ISS space station. Yes live miles underneath the Arctic ice, right? That is the true dominant life form on this planet and it always has been.

1:22:09And it wasn't until the last 120 years, we discovered that. So is it possible that there's something else that is just as normal to this world? Is it possible? Well, the answer is a resounding yes, of course it's possible because we're always discovering new new new new ways life can exist. When I was growing up as a kid, I was told absolutely as a matter of fact, all life form is derived from photosynthesis, ultimately when you go all the way down. It turns out that's not true. It wasn't until we discovered the in the deepest deepest depths of our oceans or these things called black smokers, we discovered there are creatures that thrive with no light and they thrive off of something called a chemo synthesis, a completely different way to metabolize energy to sustain life, right?

1:22:56So every time we put Mother Nature in a box, she always finds a way to wiggle her way out. And I think that's important when having this conversation because if there's one thing we know as human beings, we're usually wrong at first. Well, we exist and we do send things to other planets and we do send things into space. It only makes sense that something far more intelligent than us that would be doing that. And if they did, they'd probably watch an emerging civilization, which is essentially what we are, right? Like you said, 200 ,000 years, which is nothing. The existence of homo sapiens, they've gone from things that use stones and flint map to things that can fly things through the air.

1:23:41I mean, if you look at Orville right and Wilbur right when they flew the first airplane, you go from that to the Apollo 11 launch. That's only like what, 50 years? That's right. Something crazy like that. That's right. That's nuts. Right. And you just take that and everything moves exponentially. You take that and you imagine a civilization that's been around 10 ,000 years longer than us, 100 ,000 years longer, a million years longer than us. Something that doesn't exist. How about a hundred years? We have evolved more over the last 150 years and we have in the last 150 ,000 years. Sure. And so, you know, and then you have the other other, for me, I find when people say, well, the space is so huge and you know, is it possible that things are coming from outer space?

1:24:25My response has always been the same. Look, I don't know where they're from. I just know that they're here. And could they be from outer space? Sure. They can be from inner space or even the space in between. And I say that because the universe is far more complex than then we give it credit for every time. There was a time we had Newtonian physics. We thought there was a solution. Then all of a sudden Einstein comes along and we realize that weight, space, and time are actually connected and then everything's relative. And all of a sudden now you have quantum mechanics, which is, you know, this spooky action at a distance, right?

1:24:53Where the whole universe is behaving in a way that it shouldn't and yet that looks like the real way the universe works. I often tell people we are as humans, we have five, only five fundamental senses that we can base our reality upon. And if you can't touch it, taste it here, it's smell it, et cetera. We can't interact with it. And so where I live in Wyoming, we have these beautiful night skies kind of like you have here in your studio here. 300 days of unoccluded night skies. And as beautiful as those night skies are, if you were to look at that same portion of the night sky through a radio telescope, you would see a whole different reality around you.

1:25:30You'd see Nebula and you'd see things in different spectra that we can't pick up. You pick an ultraviolet and infrared. So you would see a whole different reality. Just like our cell phones, right? If you could see in cell phone vision and see in Wi -Fi and 5G and GPS, you would interact with your environment completely different because you would see a reality. So we can only interact with a very small sliver of the reality that we can perceive because we're humans. But most of reality is actually beyond that. And then, of course, you have scalability issues. The universe is immensely huge. And what scientists are now saying, if you look in any direction, you can see roughly within the visible, that let me emphasize, a visible horizon of our universe is about 13 .9 billion light years plus or minus.

1:26:17So that means in any direction, I can see 13 .9 billion light years with the right equipment. What's a light year? Well, it's as fast as light can travel in a year. Well, light travels pretty fast. It's a factor travels out 186 ,000 miles per second. So seven and a half times around our planet in one second. So imagine how far you can go in a year. Now, multiply that by 13 .9 billion. And that by scientists estimation, so that if the universe end to end of our visible, we're stuck in the middle is roughly 27 billion light years. Scientists are now saying that's only possibly only 10 % of the known universe because the universe is so big and so vast and so far, light will never have time to reach Earth.

1:26:57So that's a hunt at a minimum 100 billion light years. And so we are this little spec in the middle. And as crazy as that is to even try to conceive, if you compare one atom inside the one hydrogen atom, Avogadro's number, right? One times 10 to the negative umpteen all the way down. It is roughly the same level of scale as we are to the universe, meaning that atom is the size of a human as we are the size of the universe as we are a human to the size of the universe. So there is this and we as humans can only interact plus or minus with one order of magnitude up or down. Otherwise, the universe is simply too big or too small, meaning most of the universe and reality lies in those scales.

1:27:44We live in this little tiny tiny sliver. And so you heard my head. Yeah, we live in a tiny sliver. And the idea that we're alone, I think, is preposterous. I really do. And I know people they constantly chime in with this. So where's the evidence of you know, Elon's famously said if the aliens are real, they're very subtle. I don't know why he says that though. I think he probably says that because he doesn't want to sound like a Ku Klux, work with NASA and SpaceX, you know, I'd probably say some stuff like that too. Well, let me ask you this as human beings, right? How many times do we fly over the serengeti in in a helicopter, right?

1:28:26And let's say we want to monitor the health of a particular, you know, a herd of elephants, right? And so what happens are wildebeest. We fly over, we pick one, we shoot it with a tranquilizer, falls asleep, we go down, we do some test, pull its blood. Now think about it from the perspective of the wildebeest, right? It wakes up kind of meanders over to the watering hole and says, Bill, you're not going to believe this man, but something out of the sky came down and all of a sudden they were touching me and you know, I woke up in my butt hurts, right? What the hell was that? To this day even in China, when we go into a zoo, right?

1:28:58And we have the panda bear exhibits. What do we do? We put, so we don't disrupt the pandas, we wear pandasuits. Now it sounds silly, but you can actually get online and see zookeepers wearing pandasuits because they don't want to scare, they want to interfere as least as possible with the natural flora and fauna there inside the exhibit, right? Do you think the animals could, was it reasonable to theorize that there's aliens amongst us? When you say, well, two things, so I don't want to be a basic, let me, but I also want to be very specific when we say aliens and then we also, are we, are we saying something from another planner?

1:29:36Are we saying non -human intelligence that looks like us? I moves around with us. So is it possible? Well, we're doing it already with the panda bear. So, you know, it's not that we do a strategy that'd be very simple. Sure. And especially if you have the technology now as far as the panda bear. Yeah, there we go. Right? Carry in a little baby panda. Exactly. Boy, those are shitty panda bear outfits too. They're fucking terrible looking. They're pretty terrifying, right? Put that in front of my dog. He's going to bark. If they're like a dude with a dog costume, he'll be like, oh, I have a fucking dog.

1:30:10Yeah, well, that's a wild panda bear. No, that dude's not a panda bear. That's crazy. See, that panda terrorists. That looks like a fucking alien. Like it was really dark out. And that guy grabbed you and zapped you with a tranquilizer. You'd have an alien story. But yeah, my point is that we always, you know, use camouflage. Right? For obvious reason, we do it in military, right? Right? Or camouflage, camouflage uniform, I stealth aircraft, you know, for camouflage. Sure. Do you go hunting? Absolutely. I do. Absolutely. So, so it's not, it's not a stretch of the imagination to suggest anything coming here that doesn't want to provoke us.

1:30:43Probably wants to blend in. Now, of course, do I have any type of empirical evidence to suggest that they are living among us? I don't want to say definitively that whatever it is, it's here. And by the way, you already have very senior people in our government that have said it's here, whatever it is. But these things could also be from under the water. These things could be something that is as natural to earth as the little beasties were, right? When we first discovered them, maybe, maybe they've been here all along. Right? So the, the oceans largely undiscovered. One of the things that people need to understand is that most of the exploration of the ocean is really essentially around the outside edges.

1:31:18It's around the shores. Less than 10%. So, which is nuts. A buddy of mine, 90 % of the ocean. That's right. Like what? We know more about the moon than the bottom of our own ocean. And so, so crazy. Yeah. And that's fact. And these underwater crafts, like this enormous one that apparently was near this oil rig, how many of them have been, is there been more than one of those videos? So, let me tell you what I can say from open source. And then I'll tell you about a conversation I had without attribution because I don't don't want to get in trouble. Everybody's, well, not everybody. A lot of people are familiar with the Air Force's program called The Fast Walker program, which is a program that was started by the Air Force among other things was to detect UFOs.

1:32:04That's a fact. Actually, that's why I was part of their mission. To detect a lot of things, adversarial technology, but UFOs was one of them. It's called The Fast Walker program. There was some information that was released publicly about a similar program the Navy has. I can't talk about it because I don't have a proof to talk about it. But obviously, they're interested because they have equities underwater. They're interested if there's anything underwater that can perform beyond anything we have. And I remember speaking to one individual who pulled me aside very privately and he said, Lou, we were tracking this thing and I won't see the exact speed but hundreds and hundreds of knots underwater.

1:32:47And it was bigger than our own submarine. Right now, you know, big our submarines are right there. Yeah. And I have some, naively, I just kind of came out of what what do you do when you encounter that. He just said very honestly, he said, we go around. Just like that. We go around. Have there been interactions with these things? I would not leverage to discuss any details about that. That's not for me to discuss. You know, I, you know, I got to get drunk. I'm a lightweight, you know, I gotta get you drunk. Let's go have some plan out with the fuck is that. So this thing is bigger than the sub and they they followed it for hundreds of miles.

1:33:29Let me give you another great, great event that occurred. I'll talk about this because it's not classified. The portions that might be I don't know about. So I should be fine. There's an individual who I'm aware of who was a helipilot helicopter pilot back in the late 90s in the Caribbean. And they were doing missile recovery. So what happened is that the Navy would test fire missiles and then they kind of run out of fuel. They hit the water and they sink. That pre -determined time they they popped to the surface. We grab it with a helicopter, bring it back to shore and we we test it for telemetry and make sure that you know this cruise missile was doing what it was supposed to do.

1:34:04So they're out there in the helicopter. Frogman hanging down the line. You got the heatle pilot, you got the crew chief and a other pilot, the co -pilot looking all down at the bubble. And as they're about to grab this cruise missile out of the ocean, something huge and round. And what was described to me as black as a devil starts to rise to the surface. The water begins to churn very much like David Fraver's description of the Tic Tac incident and the Royaling Water. The frogman is so freaked out he's literally trying to climb the line back up. He's like total panic at the disco, right? And the helicopter is like we do it like an emergency assent.

1:34:40What the hell's going on here? And right as this thing is about and by the way it's the size of a small island and a round. Right as this thing is about to break the surface, it sucks the missile down and disappears. And that was yeah. And Dave Fraver could probably tell you that story a little bit or then I can. But when you compare that to other things, you got to say man, it's a being that guy hanging from that line. No, no, thank you. We call that bait. Yeah, but it didn't do anything to him. No, I would have loved that experience. Yeah, so that was that that was one of the anecdotes that was revealed to us by one of the magic.

1:35:17Who's that see? The pilot. Who's that guy that was hanging from that? The frogman. Is he a seal? I don't know. I only know the problem come come talk to me. Please sir. I only know the pilot. Well, put you in a fucking panda outfit. Yeah, this guy's your voice. Tell me what the fuck you saw. I want to hear that story. Oh my god. Small Island. Yeah, black is the devil in a small island and round. Yeah, submarines look like this, right? They're not around. Right. So yeah, so that was that was one of the anecdotes that was shared with us. You know, obviously Puerto Rico with the other. There's been some UAPs that have been recorded off there.

1:35:57Everybody knows about Avalía, the Avalía Instant. I don't know about it. Oh, I'm sure you do. You don't. Tell me. Wow. Trust me. So you can look it up online. There's a video taken by a DHS helicopter of a very interesting object. First, it appears to be like a perhaps a balloon, but then it does all sorts of weird stuff. And as you're tracking it, it enters the water without making a splash. You can track it underwater. Then it comes out and splits into two and it's called and it's been analyzed over and over again by a lot of experts. It's called the Avalía incident. Maybe I have seen this. Is it kind of blurry looking night vision?

1:36:30There we go. That's it. Oh, wow. And so keep watching that and I'll tell you a little story about this. This is a Customs and Border Protection release this. How fast is this thing going? Well, so if you look here, they're looking at this through a form of night vision. I don't know the exact velocity. All that is available. But if you keep watching this, something interesting happens. So here it goes. You're going to see this thing enter the water here. There it goes underwater and then it pops back up and splits into two. Keep their track and it's see no waves, no wake. And then it surfaces and then does something pretty, pretty interesting here.

1:37:06So keep watching. So it's going high speed through the water. Underwater. That's underwater. Then it breaks the surface of the water again. Keep watching. Boomp underwater, over water, boom underwater. Out of water and then you'll see it split into two. So I didn't see it split into two. If you watch the rest of the video, the video, there it is. There it is. The video is actually really long. But that's just one example. You know, this is, these are, you can see all these videos. They're prevalent everywhere. You see the aircraft on the bottom right. You see the UAP on top that's tracking it.

1:37:39Yeah. Yeah. No wings, no control services. And it keeps up with the A10 and does all sorts of interesting maneuvers. Right. So that's an A10 Wart hog. And this thing is just following it. Yep. Like it's nothing. Do you think they're trying to let people see them? I'll give you out of gas. You know, I don't know. I mean, could it be a demonstration of capabilities? We do that, right? Every time a Russian surveillance aircraft comes by, we launch two F -22s and we get real close to it and say, hey, you know, be careful. But not even from a military perspective, like if a civilization was trying to alert another civilization about its presence, wouldn't it like go towards whatever military vehicles it has and show itself?

1:38:26And then I would imagine that if they understand human beings, they understand our psychology and they understand that some giant size of an island black as the devil circular craft that lands next to the Pentagon would fucking end the world. We would freak out. No one would know what to do. That would be stock market crash, mass chaos. No one would know what to do. The way to introduce yourself, I would imagine would be gradual over a long period of time to allow this civilization to accept the fact these things exist and then slowly but surely show versions of themselves. Yeah, we call that sense, a sensitization.

1:39:08You sensitize the population or environment. But you know, the counter argument to that is that's a very human thing, right? We have as humans, we always, it's almost innate. We look at everything through anthropomorphic eyes. We look at our pet dogs and we give them human names and we do things like that because we assign human value to things and because we have intentions and motivations. But most of nature isn't that way. Like for example, when a shark bites a surfer, he's not wanting to hurt the surfer. He's just hungry. The shark's hungry. I don't care if you're a seal or whatever. I don't want to, I'm not trying to inflict pain.

1:39:44I just want to feed my belly. Intentive motivation is a very human thing and we have to, we have to, I don't want to say resist the urge because it's almost impossible to do it. But we have to recognize that there are, there are things that may exist that don't have human motivation, meaning maybe they don't care about sensitizing us, maybe they do. But maybe it's like a, like a computer, right? Maybe it's binary. Maybe there's some sort of binary thought process, just information in and information out. So that's the one, one of the aspects I've always been very careful with is to assign human traits to something that is very likely not human.

1:40:21Right. But would you have to assign human traits to it or would you have, if you, you could look at it from the perspective of these things are aware of our psychology. They're aware of how we function and they're aware of fragility of our worldview. No point. You don't have to have human intention to have a strategy for doing the least amount of harm to this. To share. To share. In fact, there's examples of that. Let me reinforce your point because there's examples of that in my background being science. In nature, you know, when lionesses stalk the zebra's, you know, they get very low into the grass.

1:40:58They don't want to be seen, right? They're not motivated necessarily because they don't want to spook the herd, but they do it. It's almost instinctual, right? It's part of their DNA, part of their wiring to have a low profile, low observability, and to get closer to their target, whether it's prior or anything else. So you're right. That means there are examples in nature that also can suggest that. So it's a very good point. Yeah. I mean, it just makes sense that if it understands us, if it's observed, look, we understand the behavior characteristics of slots, right? We've studied them. We know what they do.

1:41:34It would just make sense that if they're studying us, they would understand our behavior characteristics. I mean, the tiger recognizes the behavior characteristics of the zebra, doesn't it? Right. Exactly. It studies it. And so it knows what it has to do to get close to the zebra. So there's no way they would come here with ignorance. And I think also, it's very likely that what we are exists in many, many places in the universe and that what we are is what they used to be. So they probably understand what we are. Well, we do that in the Amazon, don't we? Yeah. And in African tribes, lost tribes in our remote rights separated by outside human contact, we study them.

1:42:11We study them from afar, but we do the same thing. Yes. Yeah. No question. And obviously, if they are these super intelligent creatures, they evolved to become super intelligent creatures. So there's probably some sort of universal process that takes place amongst all intelligent creative life that has a lust for innovation. They consistently make better and better versions of these flying crafts until they figure out how to make this warp drive thing that these things apparently have. Another thing that's odd is that you see the same kind of things that Kenneth Arnold saw in 1950. You see the same kind of things today.

1:42:47It's almost like going somewhere in the 1950s and seeing a 55 Chevy. And then in 2024, seeing another 55, they're still driving around 55 Chevy's, what the fuck? Well, they do do that in Cuba, right? But that's just because they don't have access to other cars. Yeah, I'm the choice. Really good mechanics. Sure people. It is. It's my, I mean, I'm really resisting the urge of continuing to smoke this thing right now. Okay. If you'll terrible. Yeah. Don't feel terrible. My wife is going to give me help for this because I told her I'm doing it wrong with cigars, man. Like I was saying before, I never heard of a single person dying from cigars.

1:43:21You don't nail them. Take a little bit of smoking your mouth. It's pleasurable. It's nice. I would just think that that's what they would do because that's what we would do. And I think that's what intelligent life would do. We've recognized something that wasn't quite as intelligent as us. We don't rush into these remote tribes and vaccinate them. Right. What do we do? We don't give them, but you know, the thing is like they have done some things like they gave Starlink to this one tribe. And the kids all started watching porn. You hear about that? Yeah. You came real probable. They're all lazy hanging out on their phones all day, which makes sense.

1:44:02That's what we do. Yeah. But you know, tribal leaders are not happy. You bring up another very interesting point. Is there a natural glide slope or a natural evolution to evolution, meaning any species that reaches a certain point is there a natural progression of any intelligent species to progress to the point. Like is all life is expansive. Life doesn't contract. Life expands whether it's bacterial life, whether it's animal life or human life. It is there are certain biological functions to procreate, multiply, and continue to explain. Right. So is that a is that a universal norm? That is is that part of like fractals and geometry throughout the universe?

1:44:42Is that part of the blueprint of all life? Or is it only specific to life here on earth? And that's a great question because there's probably arguments to suggest that yeah, there probably is a natural there's a natural blueprint for physics in the universe. There probably since life has to abide by physics, probably a natural potentially natural blueprint for the evolution of all life, whether again, bacterial or animal or human or anything else non -human. It makes sense. It makes sense that everything moves into greater levels of complexity from single -celled organisms to human beings that pilot drones.

1:45:19It just keeps going in the same general direction, observably here. And if the universe is infinite, that means there's infinite versions of what we're seeing here with us that exists throughout the cosmos. And probably an infinite step along the way, right? 100 years from now, a thousand years from now. Well, not to make light of it, but I'll tell you recently, I've learned over the years, there's nothing more expensive than a cheaper lawyer. So I've got a couple good lawyers that I work with on just contractual stuff. And one of them is named Ivan Hanel, I call him the bull. And I've learned to appreciate the infinite complexity of law and legal, right?

1:46:01So, right. So there is this natural progression as we're talking about life. I mean, we've even seen in our on our own human interactions, right? This intricate complexity of how things work and how even in the way we behave with each other socially, right? You look at when I was in the in the government, you could look at a terrorist link analysis. And that link analysis still follows the fractal patterns that the patterns in our our lungs, the patterns of lightning, the patterns of super -medulant clouds and galaxies, super -clusters of galaxies all have that same pattern. And it's not just a physical pattern.

1:46:37It's a social pattern, right? And so again, I'm not to make joke of it, but I'm learning that it's beyond these patterns or beyond just physical patterns, you know, even in something as as silly but fundamental as law. There are these patterns that continue to spin off and whatnot. So, yeah, I can appreciate that. I think I think we're at a point now as a species where we probably should be having this conversation. And I'll also say this Joe, there are parts of this conversation. I don't feel the government has any place. There is definitely a national security conversation here. But the conversation we're having as you can tell is far beyond national security, right?

1:47:19We're talking philosophical, psychological, sociological, theological implications that I'm not sure I want my government necessarily dictating for me what I should think about this. Well, the government's supposed to be working for us ultimately and they're supposed to be us. You know, the problem is when you have access to information that's above and beyond the normal person's realm that could affect everyone on this planet, this understanding that we are not alone, but not only are we're probably not even alone here. It's not even that something is visiting us. Something's probably here all the time.

1:47:51You know, and this is the main thought about these underwater vehicles. Well, life is abundant on this planet, isn't it? And it thrives in places that we thought life could never thrive before. It's it's everywhere. It almost seems like a natural function if you have certain situations and circumstances on a rock somewhere, then life pops up. It seems like if we can actually find it on Mars, and they're like you were saying before, they may have found some sort of an evidence of micro biological life. If we find it on Mars and we find it somewhere, they think maybe Europa underneath the surface.

1:48:28That's right. And Europa probably is powered by volcanic vents the same way the bottom of our ocean is. There might be some sort of life forming. Temosynthesis, not photosynthesis. And this is just what we know about here. You know, imagine all the different potential realities in terms of what a planet's atmosphere could be like. You know, you're dealing with larger planets that have more gravity. You're dealing with different kinds of temperature variations. Look at Titan. It's got a methane. By the way, that's organic chemistry. Right. It's got methane clouds. Right. Right. So there are things that thrive in these types of environments.

1:49:07Maybe they have cowfarts up there too. Yeah. Too many. But yeah, I mean, you're you're absolutely correct. I think we have, again, this goes back to the original point of every time we try to put mother nature in a box, she always finds a way to wiggle her way out of it and prove us wrong. If the one thing we're right about is that we're always wrong. Right. How much, I don't know if you could talk about this, but how much of an effort is there to try to detect things under the surface of the ocean? I would defer that to the United States Navy and maybe Noah. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, the biblical Noah.

1:49:44Oh, Jesus. Yeah, no, no, no, no, I mean, no, I mean, is that far back? That's oceanographic and an atmospheric speaking to go in that far back. I mean, how much of, I got to think that when people are delving into the stuff, they look at ancient scriptures and ancient these different depictions of things, whether it's the Viamanas, in the Hindu texts and whether it's in the Bhagavad Gita, there's all these different stories of in Ezekiel and the Bible. There's things that seem to, if I was a person living thousands of years ago and I encountered a flying saucer or encountered some spaceship from another planet, I would probably describe it in a way that they're describing it.

1:50:27Yeah, I mean, like just like sort of the the Aztecs describe, today's magic is tomorrow's technology, right? So I can tell you when I went to Italy, I spoke to one of the senior, I think it was a one senior, one of the senior Vatican academics and he said to me, he says, look, the Vatican doesn't have problem with this topic. This is something, in fact, in the six, up into the 1600s, it was heretical to presume or assume that mankind was the only, if you will, incarnation of God, representation of God. It was actually because, but in essence, you're putting limitations on the dominion of what God can and can't do.

1:51:02And there are these scrolls, in fact, that are in the Vatican archives, that discuss it's a conversation between a Roman soldier and a Roman general where they describe, there's something called Eclipse. Eclipse in Latin means like Sun, eclipse, right? It's the shape of the Roman shield. And they talked about these flaming Roman shields in the sky that would follow them from battle space to battle space. And Mr. Jacques Malay could probably expound much more upon that than I can, but this is just a brief conversation I had with someone there. John Lester. He's very slippery. He's very slippery.

1:51:37He don't commit to anything. He looks at your sideways. He did a lot of good stuff. Oh yeah. And he's a credibly smart guy. Great researcher of just phenomenal big brain. He's the reason that guy closing cows the third guy. He's the inspiration for the French guy. I heard that. Yeah. I never had a guts to ask him. I figured he'd probably get tired of that being heard of that. I'm sure. But when you talk to him, they're like, God, that's the guy. But there's a lot of, and when you look at what the Vatican is, I mean, really, it's probably the world's oldest, most capable intelligence organization because they have priests around the world that people will report miracles to, right?

1:52:17And or in confessions to. And eventually that gets filtered up to the Vatican. So, you know, talk about, you know, the world's first CIA and KGB. It was the Vatican, baby. Those guys had to go on. And so no wonder they have all this archival, excuse me, archival information. And some of it relates to UAP. Wow. Yeah. It only makes sense that these things, if they're here now, they've probably been visiting us since back where on horseback. Yeah. And probably quite a bit before then. And maybe that's the scariest thing for people. They might be responsible for us being humans in the first place.

1:52:53Well, you remember the story's right of even Christopher Columbus coming over to the new world. There were some interesting accounts when they were on the water of potentially some sort of UAP interaction. I did not know that. Yeah. You can look it up online. This is all open source. But you can look, type it up. And there were some very interesting accounts. And even, you know, old, old, sailor accounts, you know, of, of, you know, people say, well, you know, old sailors also talked about, you know, big giant crack and stuff like that. But there was always an element of truth to it. Now, we realize there are giant squid of the Pacific.

1:53:22Right. Well, not only that. Crackins, they think likely did exist. Yeah. Well, they because octopus when they brought, they don't leave anything. But they did find fossilized suction cups from. They still do. It's called the great squid of the Pacific. We find yeah, that, that for sure. But they think maybe perhaps even an enormous octopus. Yeah. They probably actually did go after boats. You know, we call, we, we called them sea monsters back then. But really, you know, we, we laugh about it now. But that turns out there are sea monsters. You're just called great white sharks and big whales. You know, that's a fucking sea monster.

1:53:53Right. You know, it was a real thing. A great white shark is now. I mean, absolutely. Go swimming with a great white shark. And tell me that's not a monster. Right. Exactly. So, um, you know, it's, we just realize though, it's just part of nature. It's probably our existing paradise. Tigers are monsters. Right. Absolutely. You know, especially at night when you don't have a flashlight, that thing behind the bush, that's monster. Right. You know, right. Um, did you find anything on the Columbus stuff? Well, I think I'm seeing this from my action aliens episode. No, no, it's legit. It's all crashed.

1:54:23Something crashed into the water. But I can't find that. Yeah. There was some reports of some interesting lights that the crew had reported. And it was actually, he put it down in his logbook, something about some, now some folks will come back and say, well, that's St. Elmo's fire, which absolutely could be, you know, what is St. Elmo's fire? St. Elmo's fire is a static charge. It occurs on the wing tips of aircraft, even the old sailors would report it in certain environmental conditions. There is this weird greenish blue plasma glow that will often sometimes be seen on the tips of wing tips on aircraft.

1:54:54You can, it's actually, there's some really good pictures of it online. And even on the old marinerships up towards the sales and the mass. And they believe it's, it's, um, it has to do with a static charge and under certain environments, um, it creates this, this energized plasma. And you can see it. And so is that similar to like ball light? Well, it could be here you go. So, um, and it called it St. Elmo's fire. See that? That's fucking badass. Yeah. And so this is, yeah, it's either around the cockpit of the aircraft. Whoa. And by the way, you see the patterns. It's fractal, right? Look at that ship.

1:55:27So, very, very interesting. Uh, how St. Elmo's fire, you know, can cause some people to, you know, perhaps see things and say it's also there might be seeing that. Yeah. They might, right? But there, there are some accounts of, of ancient mariners who, who report strange bizarre things. Yeah. Again, it makes sense. Um, that was one of the more weird parts of Bob Lazar's, uh, story was that, uh, they've always been here and that they, they view us as containers. Containers interesting. Yeah. Those, and he said there's a very thick document that relates to the implications that it has on religion.

1:56:12And like what, what they, the way they talk about us, well, religion calls us, right? Yeah. Religious scripture and a lot of different religions refer to human as, as vessels. You know, I'm certainly not a religious expert. So I, you know, I don't want to pontificate here and say something that's inaccurate, but, you know, that, that doesn't surprise me. Well, I think that the term was, I think they were saying vessels for souls. But if you imagine that it being transcends its physical limitations of biological reality, right? So the biological evolution that led us to become a homo sapiens over the course of, you know, X amount of millions of years, that's a very slow process.

1:56:50But technological innovation and technological progress is very quick, very quick, especially when you add in artificial intelligence, exponential. That's right. Yeah. So if something comes along that is a life form that exists outside of biology, like something that we create, which it seems like we're doing right now, like AI, right? When does that become sent to you? Right. I was at a life form, you know, not by the age of a person. Not by the age of a person. No, I need that thing in order for it to ever occur. Maybe that thing needs a thing with a soul that has a creative desire that has a lust for innovation and continues to make better and better things.

1:57:30And maybe that thing only exists in biology. And maybe the problem with artificial life is that it has no motivation. And that we have, especially if it's self -programmable, right? So one of the very bizarre things that was recently discovered about artificial intelligence, they gave artificial intelligence a certain amount of time to code something, to figure something out. And when it didn't have enough time, it changed its code to give itself more time. Fascinating. Yeah. Like what? What the fuck are you talking about? It's deciding that it doesn't like its limitations. So it won't have any of the biological motivation we have, right?

1:58:18It won't have ego, it won't have materialism, it won't have a desire for status. It won't have all the things that lead us to do some of the horrible things that human beings do. I could not agree more. And also some of the great things that human beings do. But maybe it also doesn't have any desire to create. And maybe the only way for its kind of life to exist is for a human being, a biological thing that's super intelligent in comparison to the rest of the animals on this planet, that innovates to the point where it creates this artificial life. I'm going to share something very, very personal with you.

1:58:54And I know when I say with you, I know it's with everybody else, but you know, part of my struggle is I can't urge the government to be transparent. And I'm not transparent myself, right? It's hypocritical. So let me share with you a very personal story because you bring something up that I think is fascinating.

1:59:12I'm a human being. But for what a reason I get into a car accident and I lose an arm, I'm still do well as ondo, right? In fact, if I lose my legs and all my arms, I'm still do. So my body doesn't define why I'm. And my intellect, right? If I suffer a traumatic brain injury, let's say I'm in Afghanistan and a TBI. And my brain is compromised. I'm still do. And so what makes do what makes Joe Joe? Well, it's not your physical self and probably not even your intellectual self. My mother, I was very close to my mother. My mother was was was incredible human being. And I'll share the story with you and take away with it what you want.

1:59:59I was very young, maybe two, two and a half, three years old. And I remember watching a show with my mother when my very first memories. And in this TV show, I don't remember what show it was. But I remember that a shark had eaten a dog. And I was shocked. My first understanding that what death was, and I looked to my mom, I said, mom, what just happened? And she said, well, son, the shark ate the dog. So what does that mean? She said, well, the dog is not coming back. The dog died. And so does everything die? She said, well, yes, son, everything dies. It said, well, mom, you're not, you're not going to die.

2:00:32You're mom, all right? It gave me life. She said, no son, one day I'm going to die. And I remember spending from that day forward, Scott is my witness. I spent every single day of my life knowing one day my mother was going to die. And it terrified me. It was very, very close with her. And one day that day came, my mother was diagnosed with cancer. And she started, her body started failing. And despite the best efforts, she, we knew she wasn't going to make it. And when you love somebody, sometimes it doesn't sound right, but sometimes you deceive them. They want to know, they were in a bad state physically and mentally, and you say, you know, am I going to make it?

2:01:22And you say, yeah, of course, you're going to make it, right? Knowing full well that there's probably not good chance you're going to make it. And so we're in the hospital. And my mother had at this point been in probably a state of coma for about a week. And it was just me, my wife and a couple members of the family, very, very sad moment. And my mother began this process of death called, you know, when someone's going to die, there's something called a death rattle. And it's when the mucus begins in the back of the throat to, to congeal. And it makes breathing, it can be very unnerving for the people who have to witness this.

2:02:00It's very, very calm. It's called death rattle. It's the body beginning to shut down. And I knew something told me my mom, my mom was going to go very quickly within the next 30 seconds to a minute. So long story short, my mother's body was, at that point, it was a husk and empty husk. It was broken. Her brain had shut down. And yet, the very moment she passed away within five seconds, I knew it. It was just something weird, something reached and said, this is it. She's going. And I reached over the bed and I looked at my mom. Her eyes, all of a sudden opened up. And she looked right at me. And even though her brain had been compromised and wasn't working, her body was, was, was nothing anymore.

2:02:48And she was a beautiful woman. She was, she was, she was, she worked for Playboy. She was a beautiful lady at one time, a model. She was, her body resembled nothing of what she did. She looked at me and she passed. But we communicated. And I knew there was something else at that moment more to a human being, more than just a body, more than just a brain. There is something that is, that is beyond the physical and even intellectual part of what it means to be human. And I felt it. And everybody in the room felt it. It was undeniable. You can call it a soul and it, a cheat, whatever. You know, you can put a label on it.

2:03:30I don't know what it's called. I don't know what it is. But I do know that was the essence of my mother. And the moment she passed, it was this weird feeling because as my mother laid their dead in the bed, it wasn't my mother anymore. That essence, whatever made my mother, my mother. And you could see the light in her eyes. It was like someone turning off the light switch. It is, and I've been around death a lot. It'd never, you know, it's terrible, horrible thing, especially in warfare. But, but this was something, something visceral. This was something far more intimate. This was, this cut to my soul.

2:04:07And I could recognize it. And she recognized me and I recognized her. Even though that the brain functions were gone. So, so I guess my point is I absolutely believe there's something more to the human experience than simply a tangible body and a brain. And I witnessed this firsthand. Now people can say all sorts of stuff they want. I don't care. I got enough haters out there anyways. They want to think that I'm trying to, you know, hope that my mother has a soul and she goes somewhere. I'm just telling you what I experienced. And other people experienced too. And it was, it was proof for me at that moment that there's much more to, to us as, as human beings.

2:04:46I had a very similar feeling when I went to my grandfather's funeral and I saw him in the casket. Because it was, it was an open casket and I knew he's gone. I'm like, that's not him. That's right. It's just a shell. And you can sense it. You feel it. Yeah. It was a very strange feeling. Yeah. You know, and obviously he's wearing makeup because they've got a minus suit and the whole deal. But I was like, that is not my grandfather. He's not there anymore. And it's not like you're trying to override this acknowledgement that they're dead. You know, they're dead. Yeah. It's just that whatever made that person that person, it's not in the body.

2:05:21Right. It's gone. There's a bizarre feeling that we have that you don't, I don't think it's words for it. Yeah. It's a feeling. It is. And you can, and it's again, it's not an intellectual or even a physical thing. Yeah. Um, that the idea that we're containers for souls is just so goddamn creepy. This is a farm of souls. I'm not familiar with that hypothesis, but it sounds interesting. Also scary. Perhaps what's scary for us because, you know, but like you, you got to wonder why we are so different than every other creature in that we have this insane, insatiable desire to change our environment.

2:06:13Constantly build bigger skyscrapers and to move the earth and we're constantly inventing new technology. I mean, it seems to be an instinct. It's a part of us. And I agree. This gradual progression of life is life goes from intelligent biological life to super intelligent. Whatever it is, whatever, whatever kind of technology creates it. That life is not as simple as this natural selection model that we have here that we think applies to life. That life, this is a type of life. And then there's a life that this thing creates. Well, you know, evolution isn't just a physical thing. Is it? Evolution is the ability to change within one's environment over time.

2:07:08And that's a, that's a, that's a fascinating concept you bring up because some speculate that it is inevitable that human beings will eventually evolve into something. We're just a link in a much longer chain. And that all intelligent life potentially goes through this process and that this is a natural process where eventually we actually make ourselves extinct. Not in the way where we kill ourselves. But we wind up creating a life form, whether it's AI or we start enhancing ourselves with more and more machine interface. And and you know, life doesn't have to necessarily be organic, right? You could have potential, the silicon is very, very close to carbon in some cases.

2:07:44So, you know, is it possible that that life it is, it is destiny for all life eventually to evolve itself out of existence and bring in or usher in a new type of life form? Yeah. Is it possible? I mean, certainly from a technological perspective, I mean, asking Elon Musk, it seems that we're, you know, we're making a lot of advancements right now to augment the human experience. And given, as you said, how technology progresses exponentially, very quickly in the next 200 years, I mean, we might be there. Is this sort of conversation being had in the government about what these things potentially are?

2:08:20I not to my knowledge and I sure hope not because I don't think the government, this is a conversation, this is where I go back to, this is a conversation that involves a lot of people, you know, whether it's your your priest or your rabbi or your mom or it is your philosophy teacher at the university. I think, I think we're getting into an area now that is beyond national security. And I'm honestly, Joe, I'm not comfortable with my government taking that aspect on because frankly, I don't trust my government to manage what I should think about something. Tell me what is, I'm okay with, right?

2:08:57Don't tell me how to think about it. Don't tell me how to process that, you know, because now you're, now you're overstepping your bounds. It's also other human beings. The government is just human beings. I tried human beings shouldn't have this insane knowledge and keep it from other human beings. Well, in fact, it's illegal, especially in our democracy. There's this type of stuff is supposed to be discussed with certain members of Congress and certain elements of the executive branch. And when somebody, I don't care if you're in the government or in a religion or anything like that, this goes to the fundamental pillar of something that that agrees me, which is corruption.

2:09:29Now, when I say corruption, let me backtrack a little bit. My father recently died this, last father's date, not this one, but the one before. And I had the privilege of knowing he was sick and so we took a road trip down to Miami about a month and a half before he died. And he never told me he was sick, but I knew something wasn't right. I knew my father for a long time and something wasn't right. He started losing weight and I could see he wasn't eating as much and there were tell -tale signs and he didn't want to tell me. And I asked my father almost, almost flippantly, I said, Dad, I think we're probably somewhere by St.

2:10:05Louis and I said, Dad, what is the greatest threat to humanity to humans? What is the greatest threat? Now, I say flippantly because I'm thinking, you know, terrorism, right? This and that. My father thought for a second, he looks at me, says, son, it's corruption. I said, I mean corruption, like like financial corruption. Governmental corruption, he says, no. Corruption at its heart is when you are willing to bypass your own moral code, your own ethics for something else. And whether it's its financial corruption, religious corruption, governmental corruption, or even moral corruption, when you start to compromise on your own values, it's a very quick downward spiral to utter chaos.

2:10:53And he know that first hand because my father was in the Bay of Pigs invasion. He was a political prisoner of Castro. He actually fought with Castro against Batista. And then when Castro went communist, my father joined the folks here and the friendly folks at the CIA and was part of the invasion of the Bay of Pigs. He's been two years in Castro's prisons being tortured. So when he came to this country, this country offered us opportunities that no other country could or would. And the reason why Cuba failed was because of corruption. And he said, look, corruption will be the end of all. And if it's a very quick downward spiral with democracy, that if democracy becomes corrupt, you now have tyranny.

2:11:36And so every time someone in the government is willing to compromise a little bit on the value of what it means to serve the American people. And they forget that they become corrupt. And that actually erodes the very essence of what democracy is and what this country is about. And that is why it is so important that the individuals in our government that don't want to have this conversation and don't want to talk to Congress and are making the unilateral decision on your behalf and the American taxpayer in my behalf, that's wrong. They don't have the right to do that. There is a process of rules and laws we have in this country that we've all agreed to are going to abide by.

2:12:12And that includes them. And they don't have the right to bypass that. Even if they think they're doing it for the right reason, I disagree with that. I think this democracy only works because we all agree it works. Right? And the moment you begin to compromise on that, all of democracy is at risk. And I mean that sincerely. It's not a slow downward spiral. It's quick. And you can hit rock bottom very, very quickly. And the only reason why this government works is because we all have faith and a commitment to what we consider are the American values and serving the American people and before the people by the people.

2:12:49So I think it's very dangerous when elements in the government. And I don't want to villainize a whole government because the government is full of great people. They do great things. They keep it safe. So I'm talking about the minority few. Some of these people have actually gone after me and will probably continue to come after me to try to discredit me and everything else, despite the volumes of documentation that I have in my possession and others. Because they don't want to have the conversation. And they are happy with the status quo. And to me, that is a greater threat than any UAP could ever have on humanity.

2:13:20It's the greatest threat is how we perceive ourselves and what we are willing to do to keep this a secret in violation of the commitment and what we have done to we've sworn in some cases to uphold the values of this country. And I think that's a concern for me. And that's why I don't want certain elements having this conversation of what this means, you know, the bigger macro level conversation because I don't think they're qualified. I'm not qualified. I know that. I'm damn sure they're not qualified here. So this is why I think this type of national level conversation is so important. At the end of the day, it's not up to me.

2:13:58People say, Lou, what do you think? You know what to tell what I think? It doesn't matter what I think. It matters what you think. Here's the information. Here's a data. You figure it out. Don't ask me for what this means because I'm not entitled to that. I didn't I didn't earn that privilege. And I would definitely never take it away because that is that is that is sacred. That's you. That's up to you to decide for yourself. And this is this is part of my frustration with this overall conversation because there are elements that don't want you to have this conversation. Well said, Lou. Thank you very much, man.

2:14:28Thanks for being here. I really enjoyed it. Really enjoyed our conversation. Joe, this has been fantastic and truly, truly an honor and privilege. You have one hell of a responsibility. You are you are, look, I got to tell you, I don't ever get nervous doing an interview. You were the first one. And probably the only one I will ever have been nervous coming in just simply because not because of me because of you the responsibilities you have on your shoulders to have a communicate. You reach a global audience. People are listening to this conversation right now. And by the way, they're part of this conversation very much so, right?

2:15:04That is an enormous responsibility. You have a voice in some cases that exceeds presidents. The technology you now have it available to your fingertips and this wonderful staff you have, you are influencing the world. And I can't imagine that type of responsibility. I mean, there are world leaders that don't have the voice you have. And so for me, it is a profound, profound honor and privilege to be with you here today. And you're your wonderful audience. You know, if I never see you again, I wish you the best of luck. You are, you're doing America a great service. Be honest, be candid, speak your mind.

2:15:43That's all I can say. As a little chicken here in the United States, you've got big shoulders, man. You've got a big weight on a lot of responsibility on your back. And I mean this is your... Freak me out, man. Tell me. But thank you very much. Thanks again. I really appreciate everything you've said. And I appreciate your everything you said about disclosure and how important it is. I couldn't agree more. Joe, it's been my honor and privilege sincerely. My honor too. Thank you very much. Yes sir. All right. Bye everybody.