#2241 - Rick Strassman - The Joe Rogan Experience: Summary & Transcript

In short

The Joe Rogan Experience - Episode #2241 with Rick Strassman

Episode Overview In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, Joe Rogan sits down with Rick Strassman, a Clinical Associate Professor of Psychiatry at the University of New Mexico School of Medicine. Strassman discusses his new book, "My Altered States: A Doctor's Extraordinary Account of Trauma, Psychedelics, and Spiritual Growth." The conversation spans a wide range of topics from psychedelic research, spiritual experiences, to ancient history and modern technology.

Key Topics Discussed

The Boneyard and Ancient Discoveries

John Reeves' Boneyard: Located in Alaska, a site rich with bones and fossils including mammoth tusks. It's suggested that these findings may alter historical understanding.
Smithsonian and Lost Bones: Discussion about the Smithsonian allegedly dumping bones in the East River due to lack of storage.

Psychedelics and Spiritual Experiences

DMT and Altered States: Rick Strassman shares insights from his studies on DMT and how these experiences can be likened to spiritual awakenings or dreams.
Cultural Differences in Psychedelic Experiences: Strassman proposes that cultural background might influence how individuals experience psychedelics.

Ancient Civilizations and Historical Theories

Biblical Tales and Interpretations: Strassman discusses his interest in ancient texts and biblical stories, considering them as possibly real narratives or symbolic representations.
Graham Hancock and Ancient Civilizations: Rogan and Strassman delve into theories about sophisticated ancient civilizations, referencing Hancock's work.

Technology and Future of Humanity

AI and Human Evolution: Discussion on potential technological advancements in AI and their implications for humanity, including genetic engineering and enhanced human capabilities.
Universal Language and Telepathy: Speculation on future possibilities of global communication and mind-linking through advanced technology.

Modern Society and Psychological Insights

Media Influence: Rogan critiques the media's portrayal of certain narratives, especially during the COVID-19 pandemic.
Humility and Human Nature: The importance of humility is discussed along with the implications of spiritual narcissism in modern society.

Notable Quotes

On Humility: "Humility is the ladder through which one can grasp every other good thing."
On Spiritual Experiences: Strassman notes that altered states from psychedelics often reveal pre-existing personality traits.

Book Promotion

Rick Strassman's Book: "My Altered States" is highlighted, with Strassman offering signed copies through his website.

Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:01Joe Rogan, what are you guys checking out? The Joe Rogan Experience. Dramed by Dave Joe Rogan Park, cast by night all day. So he's got Hi Rick. Hi. Good to see you, brother. Good to see you. Um, so he's got this place called the Boneyard, my friend John Reeves in Alaska. And he made this for me too. This is like a little skull. That's a woolly mammoth tooth. Man. Like a molar. Yeah. So he has this incredible place. And he was a gold miner and still is. And they started finding like an extraordinary amount of tusks and bones and skulls from animals that aren't even supposed to have been there. Yeah.

0:47And it's kind of rewriting history, but it's all in his land. So he has complete control over it. And he has like, see, there's John. He's this enormous dude. He's like six foot nine, like a big giant man. And he has, um, this is just some of it. Like show those warehouses that he has. So he had a research facility built on his property. So they get studied this stuff. And if you see outside in the lobby, there's actually a bison skull. It's like a 10 ,000 plus year old bison skull. A lot of bones. So this area is only a few acres. This is what's really crazy. He has one area that's like, I believe it's like four acres and another area that's about six acres.

1:31And there's also like a very heavy layer of carbon. So it appears there was some sort of a mass fire. And he thinks that this mass extinction event that all the people like Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson talk about with the end of the younger dry. He thinks it's connected to this. And he thinks that site might have been hit. And all these animals probably in the great flood, their carcasses were washed into this sort of valley in this one area where they were kind of trapped up against the side of this mountain. And so he hoses the mountain down with the, it's all permafrost. So it's all been frozen forever.

2:15And they have these high pressure hoses. And they hose it until they expose like a tusk. And they have this, this is what they do all day. Yeah, those hoses are what they used to use for mining gold too. Yes, that's why he has them. Yeah, that's exactly why he has them. He's a gold miner. Yeah, so this is around Southeast Coast? I don't know exactly what part of Alaska he's in, but it's really, really amazing stuff. Yeah. And another thing that he's exposed is that it's the Smithsonian, right? In New York? No. I think it's American history, and NH. Find out what we see in the natural history. Museum in natural history.

2:55So they had from the same property before he owned it way back in like I think it was the 30s. They had so many bones from this part of Alaska where the previous people had found them that they didn't have any room to storm so they dumped them in the East River. Yeah. And so they denied that the previous, obviously it's people that are along dead. They denied that this happened, and so he sent a bunch of divers out there. And so they're recovering like these mammoth bones and all these like create like bison bones, stepbison bones in the East River. Yeah, yeah. That are all from his property in Alaska.

3:35Yeah, it'd be hard to explain how they got there otherwise. It's the literally exact spot to look to like he knew exactly where to go. It was all there's records of it, but like where they dumped it because and they still to this day have just crates of these bones. Yeah, is that the reason he chose where he is living in Alaska? I don't believe so. No, he was there for gold mining. I think it was something that came up along the way. You know, because he's a gold miner, he's got a lot of disposable income. So he's willing to just spend it on his own to do this. He doesn't trust the museums anymore because they screwed over the previous owner.

4:11And even though it's his property in his land, he's supposed to get that stuff and they don't want to give it to him. And you know, and so he's got his own research facility that he built. He spent millions of dollars building this enormous research facility on his property so that they could study these bones. He's got warehouses full of them. Yeah, yeah, what's his background like archaeology or something? No, he was a he was a swimmer, right? Yeah, he was a swimmer in college and became a gold miner. I mean, he told me the whole whole whole story. I don't really totally remember it, but this is not something he wanted to get into.

4:47Like, is the middle near Fairbanks? It's near Fairbanks. Yeah. Yeah. So this is this is where John lives. We do a podcast every year. Every year he comes back like the last podcast of the year generally. And he gives us an update on what's going on. Yeah, let me take a look at that map. You know, I spent my first year after finishing my psychiatry training in Fairbanks. Oh, did you really? Yeah. Yeah. This is an interesting psychiatry place because the psychology of people that live in Alaska is very different. They're resilient humans. Well, and they're there for a reason. Right. And their reason is to be at the end of the road.

5:28Right. Or their families there and they've grown up there. Yeah. But you meet like, I felt like I was meeting people from another country. Like, I only worked in Alaska once. I did a show in Anchorage. It was a lot of fun. Me and my friend Ari Shafir. We said, let's just fly up there, just like an adventure trip. We'll do some salmon fishing and then we'll go do a show. That's what we did. And it's like the people feel different. They feel different. Like, they're more, they're made out of harder things. They're like more durable. Right. When you're up there, did you get outside of Anchorage, like into the interior or at all?

6:06We didn't do much traveling. We only kind of, I've been to Alaska a few times. A couple times for hunting trips. And I always feel the same way. I always feel like it's another country. It's just like very interesting. It's a very strange atmosphere too. The climate and the geology and the feeling. Because you're up so high on the planet. Right. You're closer to the North Pole. Yeah, when we were doing shows, I believe it was July or August where we were doing shows. And at night, after the show, it was bright out. You go outside. It was like, you could see everything. It was weird. It was like, it felt like it was 5 p .m.

6:44It's a very strange feeling. Well, in the winter too. You have maybe a couple of hours of twilight. Yeah. And that's it. And then sometimes all dark for a long time too. Well, that occurs above the Arctic Circle. Have you ever seen that movie? 30 Days of Night. It's a vampire movie. Oh, yeah, with GeForce, South Ireland. No, no, no, no. That is the Lost Boys. Oh, Lost Boys, right. 30 Days of Night was cooler. Yeah. Not that there was anything wrong with the Lost Boys. It's just, it's a little dated. 30 Days of Night is more modern. And these vampires decided to send upon this small town where it never turns light so they could just hunt all the time.

7:19Yeah, that's clever. Yeah, vampires are smarter than they look. These are creepy vampires too. They get horrifying teeth. It's interesting how vampires sort of, we decide that they look like Bella Logosi. There's Dracula, that must be a vampire. And then some people, they, have you ever wondered like the root of some thing? Like things like that. Like I used to think, I used to, like, holy dismissed ghosts as a young man. You know, when I was a boy, I believed in them because I was young and dumb. And then as I got older, I was like, maybe there's a reason why I show, like if I've never experienced something and then I do experience it, how am I ever going to explain this to people where it's going to make any sense to someone else that hasn't experienced it before?

8:09Well, you're reporting on your subjective experience, right? And it's one that a lot of people share. And so you can compare notes. It's like dreaming. You can't really prove that you dreamed or that you were in a dream state. Right. Yeah, it's a personal experience. Yeah, but that's a common one. So you can compare notes. I think that's how it works. Haven't there been studies done? There's been something done where they've taken people in altered states and had them go into a room, or they experienced, they weren't connected, they weren't communicating, but they experienced incredibly similar environments.

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9:36It's bold and sophisticated yet incredibly smooth, finishing long and deep. It's authentically American representing uncompromising quality for the rugged, the powerful, and the passionate. Tap the banner to learn more or visit BuffaloTraceDistillery .com. That's BuffaloTraceDistillery .com. Distilled, aged and bottled by Buffalo Trace Distillery, 90 proof, Franklin County, Kentucky, Buffalo Trace, American, family -owned, independent and perfectly untamed. I think that's in my big toe. You know that, that, um, the theory of everything book? Mm -hmm. I think Thomas Campbell said no. Is that who wrote that?

10:22Yeah, it's really good. I'm in the middle of that right now. It's a big toe. Yeah. It's a very strange book. Yeah, it does the name of the book or the name of the experiment? It does the name of the book. It's my big theory of everything. You know, toe is for theory of everything. Oh, I see. Okay. But it has a picture of a toe in the cover. Yeah. When you were doing, um, the DMT studies, it's kind of a similar thing, right? Like if you had never experienced that and someone was trying to describe it to you, it sounded completely like nonsense, just like a ghostwood. Or even a dream to somebody who had never dreamed.

10:59Right. Right. Because there are people who don't dream, right? Which is very strange. Yeah. Yeah. Like the people with no imagination, they can't visualize things. That's how bizarre. Yeah. Yeah. And you give them psychedelics and they report that they can. But I mean, how do they know that they are? Right. That's an uncomfortable reality that some people's brains don't work the same way. Yeah. Yeah. It's a fact though. It, what has to be? Yeah. I mean, just, just look at like cultural choices. Just look, look at the different kinds of music that people enjoy, the different kinds of food that people enjoy, and the, and the different kinds of climate that they enjoy.

11:37There's no way we're all seeing the same thing. There's no way. If food that tastes horrible to you is like a sacred delicacy to them. You know. Yeah. One of the ideas I put out in that 2014 book on the prophetic state, the solar prophecy, I proposed that people respond ethnically or culturally differently to different endogenous psychedelics. You know, the emphasis on the enlightenment experience and Buddhism might be because people in that part of the world produce or are more sensitive to five methoxy DMT, which gives you that wide out experience. And with the other kind of religious experience, it's more DMT -like because it's full of angels and you speak to things they speak to you.

12:27So there may even be some kind of differential among people as far as the way they're hardwired for spiritual experience even. Well, it kind of makes sense too. If the way they move through the world is through a specific cultural training, right? The way their cultural thinks about things and just imagine being born in an atheist secular environment and you're raised by those people. And then you meet someone who's born in a fundamentalist Christian religion. It's like very strict. And then they both meet when they're 14 in compare notes. It'd be the most bizarre versions of the world, right?

13:11Well, I mean, one version is there is no God and the other version is that there is. Right, but there's one version that God is not just a part of your life, but the only reason why anything was ever formed. It's God's plan for everything. That God has a plan for you and that if you follow the teachings of God, you'll ultimately go to heaven. It's like very structured. With the other side, it's like death, life is suffering. There's, you know, who knows what happens when you die, but probably nothing. You know, if you feel depressed, you should probably go to the doctor and get a pill. Yes. So you wonder if the atheist's biology is different than the believers.

13:50I wonder if it becomes different, right? Because don't genes turn on and off expressions of genes based upon stress, based upon environments, a lot of things. Right. Right. And those changes can be inherited, you know, like you passed on to the next generation and the next generation. That's crazy. Yeah. That's a theory about the syndrome of survivors of the Holocaust and their children and their children is that the stress of being, for example, in the camps activated certain genes, which were then an activated state, you passed on to the following generations. Yeah. I was, we were just talking about that.

14:31Like, at what point does trauma end? What point did the effects of trauma end? Right. Is it in the first generation or the second and it's such as trauma, right? It's also just stress. Like the hermetic stress of starvation. It actually makes the children of those people live longer. Dr. Rhonda Patrick has talked about this. It's really interesting. Yeah. Yeah. That's one of the spin -offs of fasting and starvation. You know, there were a lot, well, you know, speaking of starvation, you know, there are a lot of studies of enforced starvation like the camps and in Africa at various times. Yeah.

15:11You know, so there are some advantages. But I mean, obviously, to a point. Yeah. Obviously, we'd never want to ask someone to do that. But when people do it voluntarily, like when they go on these three and five day fasts, I've never met one person who said, I'll never do that again. That was fucking terrible and stupid. Yeah. And I felt really dumb and I didn't feel alive at all. No, they come back with like this very bizarre euphoric to like their version of it when they're expressing themselves. It seems like they were like on mushrooms. Yeah. Weird. Is that something you've tried? No. I've done a day.

15:44I've done a day and I sneak in some espresso. I find feeling, you know, deprived. I don't think I think that's fine because this espresso doesn't, I mean, no calories. Right. There's no calories. Yeah. I should do it. I should probably do like a three day. See what's up. Yeah. Because my friend Dana just did it. I think he dated a four three or four day. He said it was incredible. But everybody reports all this energy, which is really fascinating because I guess that's your body surviving off ketones. All right. You're in a ketotic state. Well, when people fast for three or four days, do they drink water?

16:18They yeah, they drink. Oh, you have to. I mean, there's a thing called a dry fast and people have done that. I've heard of people doing like 48 hour dry fast. And that is no water as well. Yeah. You can keep that. Yeah. I'm so not interested in that. Well, you can go on a vision quest. Yeah. I got in the desert, not drinker and I eat and you do start hallucinating. Yeah. I love a McKenna's take on that. Do you know that? I don't remember. He told the story about how this monk, the Buddha was in town. This monk went to visit the Buddha. And he told the monk that he's practiced a city of levitation for the past 10 years.

16:53And now he can walk on water. And the Buddha goes, yeah, but the fair is only a nickel. You know, all right. Yeah, because here's my take on some of these things. Just because it's hard to do doesn't always mean it's good to do. Like there are things that are hard to do, but they're good to do. Like if you could run a marathon at the end of that marathon, you're like, wow, I really did something. And you feel good and like, wow, you're a little beat up. But you you have a new faith in yourself. That's good to do. It's hard to do, but good to do. But if you run for like seven days and you almost die.

17:28Maybe you've crossed that line. Well, I think a flip side of that is simple things can be good for you that they don't have to be hard. Sure. Yeah. No, things don't have to be hard to be good for you. A puppy smiling or licking you and playing with you is good for you. Yeah. Like literally like it good for your body. Like when people play with puppies, that happiness feeling that you get like, what do you do it? What do you do? I know that's actually really good for you. All right. Well, this new neighborhood I moved into in May. There's a park, Altura Park. You wouldn't believe the number of dogs that are being walked around there.

18:02There's these little tiny ones. You know, like I haven't lived in the city in a long time. I haven't seen tiny dogs, but man, there's some tiny dogs out there. Yeah. And Jamie's got a tiny one. He didn't bring them in today. But. Carl's a little maniac. He's a little French poodle or French bulldog. He's like that big. Yeah, they're cute. He's adorable. But does he weigh? I was 16 pounds now. He's jacked. Yeah, he sounds. He really is jacked. He's got a lot of muscles. He's super aggressive. Not with people like not like real aggressive, like playful. He just wants to play constantly. Yeah. So I bring my dog who's a golden retriever.

18:35Who's the opposite? He's just everybody's best friend. If he meets you, he's like, you're my best friend. Right. He loves everybody. Yeah. And Carl just launches himself at him. Yeah. The one dog I had was a miniature doxan. And that was cute little dog. He is tough. He barked. He bit. He bit children. That's not good. That's not tough. He's an asshole. That's a well, he lived 25 years. Well, well, if I lived 25 years and I was a dog, I probably start fighting kids too. All right. Get me out of here. Well, you're toward the end. Here's a wearing a diaper. I had a mastiff and they unfortunately don't live very long.

19:14And towards the N .I. staff to carry him outside to go to the bathroom. He couldn't even walk. That's the real bummer is that you just love these creatures so much. And they only live 10 years, 12 years, 13 years. You know, well, do you replace it? You never replace it. You get another dog. You could always love other dogs. I don't think it's anything wrong. I don't think it's like disrespectful to your dog to get a new dog when they die. It wants you to be happy. Well, yeah, it doesn't have anything to do with it. It's dead. It's about you. Like, there's this is needless suffering. Do you love dogs?

19:46Do you miss having a dog? Get on the dog. Like this idea you have to mourn your dog for a specific period of time. Like it's not a wife. Okay, if your wife dies and then next Friday night, you're on a date. Like, that seems a little crazy. Right. You should probably be sad for a long time. But if your dog dies, like, come on, man, get another fucking dog. Right. Well, if it's your whole life, you know, I love dogs. I would never want to not have a dog. I just don't get it. Yeah, those mastiffs are big. He was a big fella, but they get a lot of like real problems. They're joints. It's just so much weight.

20:19Yeah. Karen, we were talking about Alaska and up in Fairbanks. Yeah, I was a psychiatrist for the county for about a year. Boy. Yeah. Yeah, it was amazing. Well, it was interesting because I had kind of given up the idea of doing research. And I thought, I'll just impractus psychiatry, my girlfriend back then wanted to be a wildlife biologist. Perfect place for that. Yeah, yeah. They've got a great department at the University of Alaska and Fairbanks. Yeah. So we spent two months driving up there from Sacramento, just had a great time. Wow. And then I started working up there for a, it was for about a year, cold.

20:58The cold, the lowest it got down to was minus 49. One day in February. And you're from New Mexico? Well, Los Angeles actually. Oh, at that time. Yeah. Well, it was snowing around Halloween. So I wasn't dressed where snow. I'd never really lived in snow. So what was it like the going from Los Angeles to minus 39? Well, I started to work on enjoying the dark. Like, you know, as a rule, you know, people don't like the dark. But there's forest all around town. And it's dark. And especially in the winter, there's 18, 20 hours of pitch black. That's so crazy. Yeah. So I tried to imagine myself liking the dark.

21:43And it wasn't all that successful. I lasted about a year. Is there a thing that happens? Like I lived in Boston when I was a kid. And one thing that it really does benefit you with bad weather is that when you have bad winters, you really love those summers. Those summers are so special. When me and my friends will like go out on a summer night. It's like, we were like, it's like we were so happy. It was warm out or outside. We listened to music hanging out together. Boston. Yeah. Is that because you have family there? Well, no, my family moved there when I was 13. So we moved. We lived in Jamaica, plain for a year.

22:25And then we lived in Newton, which is a suburb of Boston, which is really, it was really nice. Yeah. A place to grow up. Yeah. I was in the Bronx, you know, for medical school. Yeah. The Bronx, New York. And I lived in the city for about a year. Yeah. It was like, it was a great training. Yeah. When you get what? Imagine the characters you'd meet. And the characters you'd meet in Alaska. I bet you met a lot of people on the run. You know, I met a lot of Christians up in Alaska. Yeah. Yeah. Mostly. Well, my patient population, everybody with a lot of the majority of people were pretty devout churchgoers.

23:03And very strict about observance of their regulations in the Bible. So it was a fairly conservative type of city. That's interesting. Like, did they impose it on other people? Like, would they have a gay community up there? They must be imposed it on their kids. Yeah. The family dynamics up there were pretty stressful. You also cocaine too, because it's so dark and people get so depressed. Oh, man. Yeah. Well, Fairbanks had a boom when they built the oil pipeline between Prudobay and Anchorage. And so Fairbanks exploded in population. And when I moved there, it had been shrinking a bit. It's got the university, which is pretty cool up there and amazing countryside.

23:52Huge rivers, just enormous rivers. The one outside of town was a good half mile across. Wow. Yeah. I went skiing out there once at 25 below on the frozen river. It's like, oh, yes, it's pretty nice. And I'm along the shore. And there's a dark spot in the middle of the river. And I'm curious. I ski over into that dark spot. It's open water. Oh, my God. In the middle of a quarter mile. And you're out there with your weight on skis. So I backed up. Yeah, skied up back to the shore. And I felt really tired all of a sudden. Yeah. But I looked down at the snow and I thought, well, maybe I could just take a little nap.

24:35And I thought, well, you know, I'm getting hypothermic. Let me run back to the car. Do you think that's what it was? Yeah, it was it was funny. I wasn't cold. I wasn't a shipper or anything. But I just got really sleepy. They say before you die, you actually want to take your clothes off, which is really crazy. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I heard. Like in the snow when you're freezing. Yeah. I kind of remember that. And the and the bears up there are forced to contend with the Grizzly Bears. Oh, yeah, man. Yeah. One of my friends that there was living in a cabin and a bear just stuck its claws in the door, pulled the door out of the frame of the house.

25:15She just cried and went into the refrigerator basically and kind of cleared that out. So was it was he home up in his loft? Yeah, sleeping. So he was awake while this was going on. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. So it just smelled food. It smelled food. It smelled him. Yeah. So they don't abide by any rules. They don't really care about your door. Well, you know, when I was up there, I learned she's shoot a shotgun. It's called a bear stopper. It's a sawdust shotgun. You can carry with you with him if you're in the backcountry. Yeah. You know, so they're just like a 12 gauge. I think it was a 12 gauge.

25:55Do you have slugs in it? It's a book shot. Yeah. Oh, no, no, it had a buckshot. Okay. So does that make it a 12 gauge? No, it's all the pound of the round. So a slug is like a chunk of lead. And buckshot is like a bunch of pellets. Right. So the buck shot is like it scatters into a pattern and the further it is from the rifle barrel, like how far you're shooting. It's like shooting 20 yards. It scatters quite a bit and it makes a an area of impact about that big like a basketball sized. Yeah. Well, maybe a little smaller than that. But last slug is a single object and it has a lot more force behind it.

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26:32So if you're shooting a bear, I would want to slug. I think it was a shot. It's a deterrent though. I mean, you'll certainly deter them with buckshot. Yeah. If you have a widespread, it will deter them. I kind of remember, although, and this may be wrong, that one barrel had a buckshot in it. And the other had a slug. Oh, okay. That makes sense. Yeah. So you probably you probably shoot the first shot to try to slow them down and or to try to discourage them. And if that doesn't work, you the second one's lethal. All right. Then they're much closer to you at that. Yeah. Yeah. So is a pretty fun place to live in in some ways.

27:17Well, I think just that alone, the environment, just the fact that it gets that cold, it's so dangerous. Everybody kind of has to stick together. You have to help people. See people just stranded on the side of the road. You don't just pass them. You have to help them. A person might be dying in there. And if you can get them out of there and get them to safety, you're supposed to do that. So people like bond together a little bit more up there. Well, and there's also the northern light switcher. Just incredible. Oh, yeah. I had the reds and the greens. How often did you see those every year? Pretty much every night in the winter.

27:45And it was so quiet up there you could actually listen to the northern lights. They'd hiss and crackle. Oh, wow. Yeah. It was pretty wild. They hiss and crackle. Yeah. What exactly is going on with the northern lights? Like what is that caused by the magnetosphere and some solar rays? Like what is what is a might be cosmic? It wouldn't be a solar rays because it's dark, right? Right. Yeah. Unless it's like something that like is coming around the earth. Yeah. What are they? What are they? Do you mean are they cosmic rays? Must be something. Yeah. Coronal mass injections. Coronal mass ejects. So solar and magnetic activity.

28:26I guess there's a lot of different reasons why they could be created. Look into this. That alone might be worth living up there for well in the winter. If you were you could just spend a week up there in the winter. You know, there are also all kinds of hot springs in the area too. How hard is it to get around in the winter? Your car needs to be equipped. There's these things called battery blankets that you put under your battery to keep it warm. And there's a lot of heat. Yeah. Plug it in. Yeah. It's plugged in to a parking meter or to the outside of the building. Yeah. Everybody keeps their vehicles plugged in during the day when they're at work.

29:06You'd have to. Right. You'd have to. Yeah. And the other modification is an oil pan heater, which is the same basic principle. I mean, it keeps the oil from turning into a solid boss. Yeah. You know, when it gets really cold, your tires are square. What? And it's really hard to drive around in for the first couple of miles. You have to warm up. You have to drive them slow to get them warmed up again. Because otherwise it'll like flatten down at the bottom where your car has been sitting. Right. Whoa. Yeah. Cold. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Amazingly still to fill tires with air. That seems like the stupidest thing.

29:47Like if you can get those people that are working on AI, just take a couple of years off and figure out tires. Just take all these people that are making computers and figure out something that you don't have to put air in. With, you know, with my garden tools or my garden carts, I used solid, you know, solid tires. Yeah. But they're a lot heavier. You know, they never puncture. Well, those, but there's a give factor with tires that's important to handling. You know, there's, there's things that are going on dynamically with tires when you're going around corners and your car has grip. You know, especially if you're like if you're off -roading, right.

30:25They deflate their tires quite a bit. Yeah. More traction. Well, and it also will. Wines your foot. It widens your footprint so you won't get stuck in sand. Yeah. Yeah. I used to spend a lot of time in death Valley. Oh, wow. I'm around the sand. Yeah. And, and then, you know, the canyons, you know, to the east and to the west of the valley. So I guess that's the benefit of air is that you can air them down and do stuff with them. But it seems like the negative side of it, of getting a flat and getting stuck in the middle of nowhere because you don't have any air in your tire. That seems crazy.

30:57Yeah. Well, it's so vulnerable. Yeah. Like the one thing of your car, someone can show us to come by and go, ch ch ch ch, stab your tire and now your car is useless. Right. So vulnerable. Yeah. Yeah. Flat tires. So have you spent time in death? This episode is brought to you by Life Lock. Tax season is already stressful. You shouldn't have to worry about identity theft on top of everything else. And trust me, it's a big worry, especially since during tax season, your sensitive info does a lot of traveling to places you can't control. It goes through payroll, your accountant or your tax consultant and countless other data centers on its way to the IRS.

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34:00It's incredibly untamed. No. No. Is it great? Well, if you still like to take psychedelics, huh? Who doesn't like to take psychedelics? Yeah, the best place or one of the best places is death Valley. That's what I've heard. I've had friends that have had mushroom experiences out there. Yeah, yeah, I've had some amazing experiences. It's huge, first of all. And it's really old. There's rocks out there. There are two billion years old, really. And you are tripping, for example, and you're touching these two billion years old, two billion years old rocks. And you really feel something that you don't feel anywhere else.

34:41Wow. Very slow moving. It's the wind, too. There's great wind. I learned to watch the wind there. You can see like a shrub, but like a hundred yards away. And it's, I'm in this moving. And you can follow the wind as it goes up and down the canyon until it reaches you. Where you can see the particles that's carrying and stuff. Mostly the movement of the bushes, the shrubs. Yeah, I had a lot of firsts in death Valley. Yeah. Like in a lot of ways, I think I'm still working on some of those insights or those experiences, which I had in my late teens early 20s. Isn't that kind of always the case, though?

35:24I think we come up with our best ideas from 19 to 21. Really? I think so. Oh, boy. I'm in trouble, though. I don't have very many ideas. Well, you must have had, you know, some experiences that steered you in a particular direction. Yeah, I guess I did. Yeah. But, you know, until I was 21, my whole life was martial arts, just martial arts training. So my, you know, anything that I was interested in was interested in to make that better. So I'd read like the book of five rings, like Miyamoto Musashi. I'd read a lot of psychology books or read books on discipline. I read a lot of different books on how to control your mind under stress and things along those lines.

36:09Yeah. Well, it was a formative time then, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was definitely formative in that way. Yeah. And you absorbed a lot. Yeah. I definitely absorbed a lot of that. It's just I didn't have hardly, I had almost zero ideas outside of martial arts. I didn't care what was going on in the world. I was not paying attention to politics. I was not paying attention to world events. As long as we didn't go to war with Russia, all I wanted to do was train. Yeah. Well, and, yeah, I'm looking at you now. Well, it opened up the door for a lot of other stuff, but at the time, if you would ask me questions, I would have...

36:47I would not have been a good person to talk to. Yeah. What kind of questions would you have been able to answer back then? Well, I knew nothing about the world, like nothing. Like I knew nothing about other countries. I knew nothing about the way politics work. I didn't have no interest in the economy. I didn't care at all. I didn't know how anything works. I don't know the rules to any sports. Yeah. I didn't know what's happening when a basketball game's going on, unless the ball goes in the net. I don't know the rules of football. I didn't know anything, like most of my life, because it was all I was thinking about was martial arts when I was young.

37:23Yeah, it's like being a monk almost. In a lot of ways it was. The way we treated the gym, like I remember I had this girlfriend in high school, and she wanted to fool around at the gym. And it was the doughjang, so it's called. But I used to teach there, and I had keys, so I was there. And she wanted to fool around there, and I'm like, there's no way that you can't do anything here. It's like a church or a temple. Yeah. I was 17, 18 years old, however I was. Kids are so horny. Anytime you're alone, you get a chance that she wants to do it. And I was like, we can't do it here. This is not possible.

38:01We can't do it in the locker room. We can't do it in the premises. This is a church. The ground you stand on is holy ground. It was to me. Because to me it was like this place is where I'm serious. This is like a different place. The rest of the world is the rest of the world. But in this place I control myself. I control the environment. I exist by the rules. And there's very strict rules you bow. Even if no one was around, I bowed to the flag every time I entered into the doughjang. To the flag always. Yeah, what did that mean? It was a Korean flag. Yeah, that's what they did represent. It's just a representative respect.

38:43Respect for the country. For the space that you're in. Like you're bowing before you enter the space. Like it didn't matter if it was a flag. It wasn't really bowing to South Korea. I was bowing to the idea that this is a very sacred space that I'm going into. Yeah. In my Zen training over the years, we did a lot of bowing. To statues, to people, to images, to photographs. Before we ate, we would bow to the food. Yeah. Lots of bowing. It's an interesting experience to bow. To really kind of get yourself together and look lower your head and be humble. To be, you know, like in the presence of something greater.

39:26Yeah, I think it's beneficial for people. I think that kind of voluntary humility is very important. And if you can establish that as an ethic and sort of get it into your psychology. Well, you know, it's really important to be humble. I've been studying about humility. There's this great line. Humility is the ladder through which one can grasp every other good thing. Ooh. That is great. Yeah. Yeah. I try to read this once a week and that really is great. Yeah. And I'm going to be really humble. I might be the most humble person there ever was. I like how you got that. You actually photocopied that.

40:03Yeah. Like it's got the darkness where the binder is in the center. Yeah. Yeah. It's a serious thing. That's awesome. That's awesome. What a great quote. Yeah, it's like to not be humble. It's like we like our sport stars to not be humble. And that's about it. Everybody else, we appreciate a little humility. Even sport stars. You know, praise Jesus or something. Well, I mean, can you be too humble? Sure. Yeah. Which would look like what? Well, you can be too humble in the sense that you don't have confidence in your ability to do something that is sort of open. Some open ended. You don't know how it's going to turn out.

40:41Something where it's dangerous. You're going to take a risk. You have to be bold. You have to have enough confidence in yourself that you can navigate a thing that very few people navigate. You know, if you choose to start your own business, if you choose to like quit what you're doing and go on a journey because you really feel compelled to do it. Have other life experiences. If you're too humble, you might not be willing to bet on yourself. And I think that would ultimately be bad. Yeah. I think one of the things too about being too humble is you just suppress all of your feelings. You think you should have no feelings at all.

41:17In other words, responding to things in your world, insults are harm being... Right. So you can get in a bad relationship and have someone yelling at you all the time and you just... You're humble, you handle it. Well, if you think you're humble, you might not be able to handle it, although you might pretend that you are. Well, if you pretend long enough, you become humble. Yeah. You know what I always tell guys? I say this whenever possible. You should aspire to be the person you pretend to be when you're trying to get laid. Who do you pretend to be when you're trying to get laid? Pretend to be really interesting, really nice, really kind.

41:58Just wouldn't it be easier just be that person? But there's a success aspect of the courtship thing where you want to show your success, which is anti -humble. But you got to be careful with doing it because then you look braggie. But you want to show the person that you're dating, that you're valuable, you're a person who can accomplish things. But so many people just put on a show when they're meeting people, like they're dating, they put on a show. They pretend to be someone who they're not. Like, wouldn't it be better if you just become that person? Well, I think that's one of the advantages of Zoom is there's no pressure when you first meet someone.

42:36Who's having Zoom dates or people doing that? I've done it. How do you freak out? It's a good move. Yeah. It's like almost like a podcast. Well, and you wouldn't necessarily feel the pressure to go to bed right away. Of course. And you don't feel the pressure to have to get out of the situation if it doesn't go well. You can just kind of hang up. Bye. Yeah. And you can meet somebody. It's rough. You don't want to just abandon them. Well, you can keep it low profile too. You could just be in your bathroom sitting on the toilet. Sure. You can go to your friend. Yeah. Yeah. Keeping it low profile, keeping it casual.

43:15But if you look at the numbers, you're seeing the numbers of the way people met in the past versus today. I think it's 25 % meet online now to get married. I think it's more than that. I think it's a really high percentage of people who meet today meet online. But the thing is this was a video. So it showed like 1900s where everybody sort of met either through family or through church. That kind of deal. And then over time it becomes women into the workplace and then people are meeting people at work. And then the internet comes along and just. Yeah. What do you think of arranged marriages? Well, it sounds terrible.

44:00You don't have any choice. And if you have domineering parents, then your parents are going to match you up with somebody else's kid because they're friends with this guy. And this guy's son is looking for a wife and you're a lady that as a dad that tells you what to do. And you're like, why? I don't want to marry this guy. And you know this guy? Well, your parents would need to be straight shooters. If your parents are straight shooters, would they be doing an arranged marriage? In certain cultures, yeah, there are a lot of arranged marriages. And I think they do tend to work out. I haven't looked at the data, but they couldn't do worse than the marriage is success right now.

44:40If you can leave a little pad of paper and append a slaying around so they can write you a note. No one knows about it. What's really going on? I bet it would be like a message in the bottle. It comes, hey, baby. How's Linda doing over there? Oh, she loves it. She loves this arranged marriage. Oh, she can't go anywhere. Where's she going to go? If you're in the kind of controlling culture that even considers an arranged marriage. You know what I mean? It's a very strict culture. Not saying it's negative, but it's very strict. And if you have great parents and they're really wise in their choices and you're in a culture that has an arranged marriage and your parents are like super kind and generous and they trust you and they love you and they think you're amazing.

45:21And then they want to hook you up in an amazing person. Maybe it can work out. But generally, I think you should give people the freedom to do whatever they want to do. And maybe that lady never wants to get married. Maybe she's decided that I don't like how this is. I want to throw myself into my work. I want to travel the world. I want to do that. You could do whatever the fuck you want to do. And you ride. Yeah. That way in the work and those kinds of cultures. So I don't like that. I don't like that. I don't like anything where people are telling you what to do. And that's what an arranged marriage is.

45:54It's someone's telling you what to do. If you can't say no, I mean, I'm maybe I'm ignorant. I should say like maybe an arranged marriage is a proposal. Like they propose it to arrange marriage and they both agree on it. Maybe that's what you're interested in. I think that's the case that if there's no chemistry at all in the women or the guys that's forget it, I'm not interested. I think you're free to. I would have to end it. Yeah. And I would guarantee you that's not always the case. Especially in some more restrictive parts of the world where women are forced to like follow completely different rules.

46:29And the men that which is a, you know, a reality of the world we're living in today. There's parts of the world where they think in our very archaic way and women are second class citizens. I mean, the mid east. I mean, look at that place. It's just it's a blaze. Yeah. And some blaze. Well, I have a good friend of mine who came on the podcast recently and was talking about his experiences in Afghanistan. How crazy it is there. And he's like, it's like you're going back in time a thousand years. Like the way women are treated and children are treated. The amount of pedophiles and open molestation of boys and just murder and murder.

47:13What do you think at least in particular, you know, that Jerusalem is just such a hotbed? It's a point of contact and conflict for all three major religions. Islam, Christianity, and I'm in Judaism all claim that small bit of land. I wonder what it is about that part of the world. Well, it's got to be for the Bible, right? I mean, that's the significance of it as holy land, you know. The concept of holy land is always so. So if there's a place where it is literally in the Bible that this is the place where Jesus is going to return to. Well, this is going to be a place where people do battle over.

48:00You can't let the enemy control the place where Jesus comes back to because what if Jesus comes back in the immediately, snuff them out because they're Islamists. Right. Well, it goes even further back than that. It was the location of the temple, the temple of the God of the Hebrews was built in Jerusalem. How much history is there, like how far does it go back? Well, Judaism began what maybe 4 ,000 years ago. And the first temple was built. Oh gosh, I should know this. It's did for 400 years. Then it was destroyed. And the second temple lasted around 400 years. It was destroyed in 70 CE, the second temple.

48:44When was the first temple in existence, Jamie? So even if that's the timeline, so that we're looking at about 4 ,000 years. Right.

48:58You know, like Abraham, you know, the first of the Hebrews lived around 1800 BCE. So 2000 BCE, the first known mention of the city. So that's 2000, 2000 before current era in middle kingdom Egyptian. How do you say that? Expression, excretion texts. What does that mean? Expression, excretion texts. Oh, oh, oh, curses. Curses. Yeah, yeah. Really? Yeah, execrations are curses. Extreme curses. Really? Yeah. If you execrate someone, you're really cursing them. Ancient Egyptian, hieratic texts listing the enemies of the Pharaoh, most often the enemies of Egyptian state or troublesome foreign neighbors.

49:45The texts were most often written upon statuettes of bound foreigners. Yeah. Bulls or what was the other word it said there? It said bulls or... It's blocked out. Execution texts. Or blocks of clay or stone. Wow. Yeah, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of Egyptian excretion texts. Jesus. How wild. Yes, so Jerusalem is an old city and the temples were there a long time ago. Yeah, and the location of the temples relates to dreams of Jacob who was laying on the ground and on a stone and made of a vow to God, the God of the Hebrews who Jacob was commuting with to build the house of the Lord there.

50:38And so, you know, there's a long history of that part of the world being associated with the patriarchs and with the temple. Christianity has an association to Jerusalem because of Jesus. I'm not sure what the connection between Islam and Jerusalem is. It's clearly more recent. Well, isn't it always a sort of situation where when someone really likes a thing, everybody wants it? Yeah. You know, well, there's things called greed and vyingelacy. Yeah. I've always liked the distinction among those three qualities. Here it says, Jerusalem is revered by Muslims as the third holiest place on earth. And the pilgrimage to Jerusalem is viewed as an optimal optional rather complement to the pilgrimage to Mecca, the Hodge.

51:33The pilgrimage to Jerusalem is undertaken individually at any time of the year. Well, you know, I've never been to Israel. Now's not a good time. No, no. And, you know, there's this thing called the Jerusalem complex. Yeah, I've heard about that before. You are like, I think you're Messiah when you're right there. Right, I'm the Messiah. Right, so, you know, that might be a problem.

52:01You could see how it would really be a problem if someone was inclined to that, you know, headed in that direction. Well, I think, you know, one of the problems with the current, you know, psychedelic scene is this messianism. You know, there's going to heal everything. There'll be world peace. It'll be a utopia. There's also, I think, a prevalence of this kind of spiritual narcissism. Oh, good. I'm glad you see that. Yeah, it's important. It's a prevalence of it. It seems like there's a lot of people that attach themselves to this thing and then use this to behave in a completely different way.

52:37They behave like they're the, instead of a person who's experiencing it like everybody else, they're like a leader. Right, and I think there's a real danger in that expressing these thoughts to other people as pure facts. You know, the way to live your life. Like, listen, you don't know how to stop. Okay, there's ways, there's ways you've learned to live your life better because of that. You should be just talking about those experiences. But when you start giving people instruction and how to do things and then, you know, organizing people together, I think that's a symptom of this spiritual narcissism.

53:13Uh -huh. That people, if you're attached to this, you're attached to something divine, which we, I think, we would both agree it is. You can imagine that you are divine or you can project that you are divine. You know, I think there's a temptation to do that. Well, I think it strengthens pre -existing, for example, personality traits, like you're saying, like if you're a narcissistic person and you trip, you'll just get more enamored with yourself. More convinced that what you think is true. That seems terrible. Well, that's one of the dark sides of psychedelics. Well, that's weird, right? Because as you were saying before, like, there's people that want to think it's like a cure -all.

53:57It's not necessarily. It's a tool. And if it was a cure -all, it would have already cured us. We would have been cured like thousands of years ago. People would have worked out all this nonsense. Right, right. I think it just works on what's already in your head. You may not acknowledge it or think about it or even remember it. And you know, psychedelics will shed light on what's already there. Well, how about the Vikings? Right. I mean, they would take mushrooms before they kill people. The berserkers? Yeah. Yeah, the berserkers. Well, see, I mean, you could do anything you already believe in.

54:31That's what I'm saying. And something you're already, you know, you're already inclined to believe. You believe that it's good to go slaughter people. Well, I think that's one of the interesting things that brought about, I'm about you and Brian Mureskis book, is that I don't think these ideas came from the drugs. I think they were just made more manifest, more meaningful, more real than they were before, you know, because of the drugs. You know, so if you're a Viking and you want to go out and kill, if you're living in a religious community with certain beliefs and you want to believe them even more firmly, or practice more intensely, you know, psychedelics could have that effect.

55:10That makes sense. I mean, again, like we're talking about like the culture that you live in is that this is the view, this whatever the constraints of that culture, this is the window in which you view the world. You view it through this culture. And you view it through these belief systems that you have sort of adopted over time. Yeah, I think that's what's going on with the beings in the DMT world. I don't think they are necessarily free standing intelligences, but you know, they're the way our culture, our personal culture and our larger culture, and wrap in a visible form certain information, certain kinds of input, either from the outside world or in your own mind.

55:58You know, so it's a culture specific, I think, you know, the visions that you would see. I don't think they're like aliens from another planet, although I kind of thought that in the beginning, but as time has gone on, and I've heard more and more stories, I'm more inclined to believe these are simply projections, you know, taking the garb of, you know, the personal, you know, Mill you. Yeah, maybe. That's the problem. The problem is yeah, maybe. Yeah. Because like you can go down that road and just decide, oh, no, no, no, no, what these are, these are thoughts. And thoughts have a consciousness of their own.

56:36And we think of them as being independent, like they just created by the human mind, but no, the human mind's probably tuning into these things and they can appear as entities. I think thoughts might be a living thing. Well, they can be stupid to say out loud. Yeah. But the idea is everything that exists on earth, that humans have created, every single one of them came from an idea, which is weird. Yeah. Because it's had so much of an impact, so much of an impact on the world. Well, you know, one of the ideas in the, in the medieval philosophers was that, is that thought or thoughts are intermediaries between you and God, you know, they're angels, which are exchanged between you and some divine external source of information.

57:34So if you're thinking of how thoughts have directed the world's growth, I mean, you could even extrapolate to, well, you know, maybe it's the divine plan for humanity. Well, there's certainly something going on. If you just, if you objectively just step outside of human culture and just watch the world, it's certainly moving in a very specific direction. And that direction is very much technologically driven. There's something really crazy going on in a technological direction. And then all that stuff is coming from ideas. So ideas are popping into people's heads. They're over the course of hundreds and thousands of years.

58:20These ideas are propagated and given to other people and they expand upon them. And then more ideas take place and then more execution of these ideas. And it changes the landscape and changes the ocean. It changes the seas. It's very, very weird. Well, I think it's a case of cause and effect. Certain causes produce certain effects. And the rules of nature, let's say, or the rules of thought, you know, like how the brain creates thought. You know, they are regulated in a particular manner. You know, there's an order to chemistry, certain chemical reactions occur for this or that reason. And so it says if the system is already set up to encourage certain behaviors, have certain ones, certain ideas form, and other ones not form.

59:15You know, cause and effect if you, you know, like if something bad happens to you, it's because of what happened before or something good happens to you. It's because of what happened before. You know, so you learn from your experience to do things that result in you feeling better, you know, positive outcome. You know, so you know, the system is developed that way. That, you know, that for example, if you, if you get angry, you might stub your toe. You know, that's how it works and you're in pain and you think, oh, I shouldn't be angry. Or you're nice to someone and they're nice to you as opposed to being mean to you.

59:49So, you know, I think, you know, the world, I think existence on a set up in a certain way to encourage certain behaviors and discourage others. You know, that's what's weird. I think, you know, the technological stuff is pretty interesting now. Yeah. You know, but it speaks like a larger phenomenon, which is, you know, how, you know, cause and effect has been set up. Well, it's how cause and effect has been set up, but it's also there's a, there's a very weird competitive drive towards technological innovation that exists with people because it's attached to monetary gain. Right. And the companies that are involved in the most technological, sophisticated work, whether it's AI or whether it's social media, like one of your programming things in the giant scale, it's incredibly profitable.

1:00:44Incredibly profitable. And the technology moves along with the profit and ultimately it's going to make a being. It's pretty close, pretty close to making a being. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think the future lies as much in genetic engineering as well. Oh, yeah, it's not like it's binary. Right. There's only this one thing or nothing. Yeah. I think the, you know, biological manipulation and the AI, you know, development is going to be, it's, I think it's going to produce a hybrid. 100%. I think so too. I think that's the only way we live. I think we have to like accept the fact that they're here. Right.

1:01:28And join them. Because I think as biological meat vehicles were just too limited, our evolution is too slow. You know, it's like we're like if you decided to run your entire business on a laptop from 1995, like it's too slow. You can't do that anymore. Like you have to catch up if you want to be a part of this world today and that's not that long. 1995 was 29 years ago. Just crazy. That's not that long ago. That laptops useless. Yeah. So what kind of ways has AI impacted you? It hasn't. Yeah. It hasn't impacted you. Well, it has in visually. I've seen a lot of like really wild things online. There's a bunch of them.

1:02:06Like there's one that I posted that some guy made. It's Donald Trump playing credence clear water of revival on the guitar. Pull it off of my hands. You see this and Kamala Harris is in it and, and, and, and, McCrolin from our Justin Trudeau's in it. But it's, it's so realistic. I mean, it's obviously not like you look at it. Like I know it's not really them. But it's so close. It's weird. Do you like credence? Love credence. I love credence. And it's fortunate son. So it's a banger song. Yeah, yeah. That's the great song. It's Donald Trump. You see Donald Trump playing guitar. I ain't no senator son.

1:02:51It's pretty recent. Scroll down.

1:02:56Keep going. There it is. Give me some volume. Look at Putin's on the drums. Kamala Harris is where to which. Look at that. Come on, man. Give me volume. Oh, we can't. We're getting in trouble with the YouTube police. Look at that. Kim Jong Un. Biden. This is crazy. Look how good this is though. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's not quite good enough where you can't tell that it's AI generated, but it's unbelievably close. Yeah. Obama's the Joker. How bizarre. Yeah. It's so weird, right? Isn't it weird? Yeah. It is hilarious. It's scary though. It is. And Jamie was just talking about Sora that there's a new version of Sora that was released.

1:03:42Was it today? Yeah. I'm waiting for it to show up on my account, but everybody has got a minute. Sora is a S .O .R .A. is a new video generator through AI. So you put in props. So show him the Japanese one. I'm going to show up. So this is what is their new stuff? This all sorts of stuff. So the Japanese one was incredible. So it's like show me a street in Japan where the snow is falling. And you know, like a drone shot from overhead. So you see these people and it looks entirely like a real scene. All right. So this is a guy. It looks absolutely like someone's flying once old. So this is just older stuff, but this is like a prompt for puppies and snow.

1:04:24Look at this. All right. Who doesn't like puppies? Who doesn't like puppies? But that's fake. This is what's crazy. Like this is all generated by AI. And it's pretty indistinguishable. Yeah. I mean, look at this. This is all AI. Whoa. Nuts. Good thing I'm not on drugs. I know. You'd be like, what? Look at this. This is AI. Incredible. That's insane. This is a waves hitting the rocks. Yeah. A movie trailer. And you know, actors are fucked. Like they're in real trouble. Because you can make movies like this now. Well, so are writers. Writers are fucked. Yeah. I don't think writers are as fucked as actors are though.

1:05:07Because some writers, like, you know, there's the quentin Tarantino to the world. They're just going to take turns because of just his own psychology that you're not going to take. You know, like we're Stephen King when he was younger. Like, I don't think you're ever going to be able to write carry on a computer. You know, I think you need the human experience for some stuff that's creative, but not for the video. Yeah. Well, it touches upon creativity. Like, is creativity the difference between AI and humans? Well, maybe it's not. That's what's really scary. Because we like to think that's the one thing that we have above AI.

1:05:42It's like we're creative. Well, but yeah, great. Get it to write a Beatles song. What if it writes a way better Beatles song than the Beatles could ever write? You know, what if it knows what's really going to move you? You know, what if it writes a Cheryl Crow song that makes you cry? You know, then you're fucked. Yeah. Yeah. Then it's X Machina. Then it knows. Did you ever see X Machina? Yeah. I love that movie. Yeah, that was pretty good. It's the one on top 10 all time favorite movies. Yeah. Because it's so rang true. Like there was not a moment in that movie where I was like, Blush. Get out of here.

1:06:16Yeah. It's so rang true that that thing, that they would be able to manipulate you super easily, especially if you're a young man and you're, you know, awkward with women. And it's this perfect woman who just happens to be a robot. Yeah. Who cares if she's a robot? Yeah. Well, that's funny. The version of the thing by John Carpenter's, my, it was one of my favorite movies. Oh, that was great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sort of, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sort of, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The John Carpenter one is awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I've watched that twice and both times I regretted it because every time I closed my eyes, there would be visions of these, these like mutations happening.

1:07:05Yeah. And that was another one that was up in the freezing cold. Yeah. Trapped up there. There was a new one of that they did in the, I think the early 2000s. And so it was pretty good. Yeah. It was the prequel apparently. Yeah. Was it? Yeah. Yeah. Well, they used a lot of CGI where I didn't have practical effects like the Carpenter version did. Right. Right. Yeah. Which makes it for whatever reason, not the uncanny valley. You don't really think it's happening. It seems kind of fake. Yeah. When they use the visual effects, like I've had Rick Baker on the podcast. Oh, really? Yeah. And, you know, like things like the American Werewolf in London, he used like a real physical thing.

1:07:44And it looks like a physical thing. This, you know, robot or whatever it is, it bites a person. This thing that he's pushing towards you. It looks real and can't, you only see it for a brief second. But your brain registers, that's a physical thing. Whereas if you see the video, your brain registers, well, that looks cool. Right. I don't think it's really there. Yeah. Yeah. It's a visual effect. It's not a practical effect. Right. Exactly. And you have to, there's a suspension of disbelief. Right. Like, do you ever see I am legend? It's a good example of it. Yeah. I am legend was cool. But it was like 2000 what?

1:08:22When was that? When was I am legend? 2004. So I bought right? Seven. Okay. Back then they weren't that good. So there's a scene where the lions are in the park, like in the streets. Like they have lions out there because of the civilizations collapse. I've seen that scene. Yeah. It looks so fake. Well, can you see like an intersection between AI and psychedelics? Like, you know, could you give a robot LSD or something like it? Well, no. What I was going to say is I think AI can give you some, and McKinnon actually talked about this as well, that he believed that with virtual reality and computer simulations of trips, it will get to a point of sophistication where you can visually simulate exactly what a psychedelic trip is.

1:09:19You know, and then there becomes this real possibility within our lifetime of recording dreams. Now, if you can record a dream, can you record a psychedelic state? Sure. I mean, why not? Right. If they can, I mean, I don't know how far away they are. Let's say they're 50 years away from being able to do something like this. But if they can map out all of the synapse in your brain and all of the different neurochemistry that's going on, if they can map that out and then attach it to some sort of a, some ability to visually record what you're experiencing. And they can then have something like through a neuro implant, like a neurolink or something like that.

1:10:06And then completely put you in the exact state that this person is having when they're on 9 grams of mushrooms. That totally seems like if we can send video through the sky and it lands on your phone, it looks perfect. I think that's doable. I think that's doable within X amount of years. I mean, it's not a thing like cloning people through a printer. Like, that's too far away. But I think the idea of recording your thoughts and then figuring out what causes different reactions inside people's mind, how your visual cortex interplays with all these different chemicals that are going on inside of your brain.

1:10:50Yeah, I think it could be a mass telepathic experience. Like if everybody was ensuring the same experience at the same time. Yeah, I think that definitely, I think that definitely and definitely the possibility of a completely universal language. Especially if we can enhance our brains. So if what they're talking about with neurolink is multiple steps of use, right? Multiple steps of the way they're going to have this first, they're going to use it for people that are disabled. Like we have the guy in here was the very first neurolink patient. Oh, very cool. It was very cool. He plays video games and he's like his eyes are like an aim bot.

1:11:39So wherever he looks at it shoots because like he can move his eye instead of hand -diac coordination. It's just eye coordination. So he knows exactly. So it's like instantaneous visuals on things. So he's like really good at video games with this. And that's better than not having that. So he plays better with the neurolink than a person like myself would with just hand -diac coordination. So you would imagine that if it can do that better, the next thing it's going to be able to do is restore vision. And if they can restore vision and then they can create artificial eyes, you can have things like night vision.

1:12:16You can have thermal imagery. You're going to be able to do things with your eyes that a biological eye can't do. And we might get to the point within you know our lifetime or our grandchildren's lifetime where people get rid of their eyes really quick because your eyes are bullshit. Your eyes don't even see through walls like what do you do these stupid fucking biological eyes? And then the next thing you know you've got something that enhances your brain and gives you complete access to the internet instantaneously. Just through the mind. Just through this implant and through the mind. And then everybody gets together and says listen, I would like to learn Swahili.

1:12:56I'd like to learn Portuguese and Chinese. I don't have the time. No one has the time to learn 190 languages or whatever they're out there. Why don't we all just create one universal language? Would you think people would want that? I don't think leaders would want that. Yeah because it would lead to everybody talking with everybody else. I think Russia would be down with that. They'd probably sense it. Well there was their time. Back in the tower of a babble. Everybody spoke one language, one tongue. Yeah and you look what they did. They just built a big tower and your God looked down and said you know they have one language and one tongue and look at what they do.

1:13:35What do you think? Like when you think of biblical stories what do I mean I've spent far too much time speculating about the origins. But I'd like to know like what do you think that was? Well I think the stories could be seen as if they were real. You know kind of like the DMT world. At a certain point I had to look at the DMT world as if it were real. Otherwise I would suggest it was something else. It was psychoanalytic, psychodynamic stuff. It was union archetypes. It was your brain on drugs. But if I took as an act of faith that it was a real world. I treated it as if it were real. And that's the way I approached the Bible, the Bible stories as if they were real.

1:14:25Like if you read it carefully it's a very coherent picture of creation, of history, of the relationship between the spiritual and human worlds. And if you just enter it rather than interpret it as something else then it starts opening up in a way that is quite interesting. Like for example the flood. Well for example the tower of the Babel. Like if you look at the pre -seating chapters after the flood God told man to spread out to populate the world. Because it was just Noah and his family after the flood. And then they had children. And the directive was to repopulate the earth. And instead they built this tower.

1:15:19People wondered why was the generation of the tower punished as it were by being dispersed and the languages were confused. But yeah so it's a cohesive whole. The stories you build upon each other. There's history. Certain things occurred because of the behavior of certain people, certain ideas, certain practices. So it isn't as if it were something else other than what you're reading. And that makes it important to understand the language is written in which is Hebrew. So if you really want to understand at least the Hebrew Bible, what some call the Old Testament, you really need to know the Hebrew language.

1:16:09Because you can make the translation for yourself. They say all translation is interpretation. So if you know the language directly, you can then make your own interpretation. Ancient Hebrew would be the most fascinating one to read it in. It's incredible. If you could understand it. Yeah, I read it. Yeah, I retot myself biblical Hebrew in my... Why do I want to that dick? Oh I don't know, 16 years man.

1:16:39That's incredible. Well you have these big old dictionaries, right? Yeah, these concordances. And each of the words has a three letter root. Right. And you know, just depending on context, they can mean a lot of different things. Right. And every time they appear for the first time, I was scribble in the margin of the text, you know, what this means. So you self -taught. Yeah, yeah. Well as a kid, I took, I went to Hebrew school a few hours every week and I learned conversational Hebrew and Mandarin Hebrew. So that gave me a leg up when I started learning biblical Hebrew. How different is biblical Hebrew from conversational Hebrew?

1:17:21Very different. They're really Byzantine, word forms and grammar and words that appear once and never again in the biblical version of Hebrew. One word appears once in the whole 22 books of text. What's the word? Well there's a number of those words. Oh wow. Yeah, they're called hap haxes. H -A -P -A -X. Yeah, they appear only one time in the text. They have to figure out what that means. Whoa. Can you guess because of context? Yeah, you can guess because of context. You can also, you can guess because of neighboring languages. I'm like Hittite or a KDN or Phoenician or Sumerian. Oh wow. Yeah, so it's an amazing language.

1:18:14I love the Hebrew language. That's one of the things that really got me hooked. It's very, you know, it's extremely rational. But it's really telegraphic too. You could write one word that may encapsulate the meaning of six or eight words. You could put together a biblical Hebrew word, for example, that might say I found... Let's see. But I'd really have to think that through. But you can combine a lot of ideas in one single word. You know, that's just of it. So when we're thinking about the world and we're using words, we're confined by the way the English language interprets the world. Exactly.

1:19:00Yeah. And that's one of the things I love learning about the biblical Hebrew is, you know, their grammatical forms open a window to parts of reality that just are ignored all of the time. You know, there's a notion of the reflexive tense, which means you're doing something to yourself. So for example, you might say, I sat down or I sat myself down. And I sat myself down is, you know, the reflexive. And I sat down as what's, you know, called the perfect. Yeah. So the convolutions of grammar really open windows to, you know, views of relationships that were invisible before. And if you're using this and you're reading these ancient, ancient stories and trying to interpret them and then trying to break it down into English, more Greek or Latin, whatever they did.

1:20:00The first translation was Greek. And after that, Latin. Have you ever done any reading of the Dead Sea Scrolls? You know, I haven't really. I've read about them, but I haven't read any of the scrolls themselves. You know, one of my long standing on your projects is a translation in commentary on Genesis. A big Genesis is 1200 pages so far. Whoa. Yeah. So I'm not sure how I'm going to ever get, you know, that you publish. But I think if I can, you know, something more manageable, it would be an interesting read for people. So what are you doing with it? What are you doing with this like when you set out, what was your goal?

1:20:42Well, it was an expedient kind of reaction. I was scribbling notes into the margins of my copy of the book of Genesis. And there was just no more room. So I said, I got to put this into a word file. Yeah. So I'm not putting it into a word file and it was pretty big. Yeah. So I'm still working through it. Well, there's all these commentaries to the text. You can't, you know, know the score without a score. Right. You know, without a program. Yeah. So there's a lot of very interesting and intelligent commentators. So those would be a lot of the notes that I would write down. And I was compiling all of these interesting perspectives on the text.

1:21:24Wow. So are you reading it in Nation Hebrew? Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I'm both doing my own translation. And on your collating, you know, the commentaries from 20th or on your 30 different, you know, commentators. So when you're doing your own translating, are you comparing it to other translations and seeing how other people interpreted it? You're mostly other Jewish translations. Are there, but there are there are a lot of straight from ancient Hebrew to English, or is it a lot of like two Greek and then to Latin and then to England? Like how are they usually done? Or how are they originally done?

1:22:08Well, the first translation was to Aramaic and then to Greek. And then I think to either Arabic or to Latin. So the first translation was the Dead Sea Scrolls as far as we know? Well, the translation of the Bible itself, you know, the five books, the first five books and then the intervening, 17, the prophets and whatnot. You know, those were translated into different languages, you know, book to book. You know, the Dead Sea Scrolls are both books of the Bible with slight modifications or completely independent, you know, kinds of texts. How many of them are books of the Bible? How many of the stories?

1:22:50I think Isaiah was found in the Dead Sea Caves, maybe some Ezekiel, maybe some Leviticus, you know, like a number. You know, not the whole. Was Ezekiel the same as it was in the Old Testament? Mostly. Mostly. There are modifications though, with, you know, the Dead Sea translations, the verses, the ones we read today. Ezekiel's the Wows. Ezekiel really got me hooked on the whole DMT and dogeonist spiritual experience, kind of motif. Yeah, the visions of Ezekiel, chapter one. I mean, there's, you know, there's this, you know, roaring sound and he falls down and Agile picks him up and there's like, you know, blue ice above and a roaring sound and a wheel within a wheel.

1:23:35The wheels and the angels with the wings and the eyes on their wings is completely DMT -like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I was really impressed with the overlap of the two sets of experiences. The UFO community latches onto Ezekiel as well. Yeah. You know, the depictions. I was on an image today. I should have saved it instead of to Jamie. But it was angels. It was an individual interpretation, like a drawing of angels as described in the Bible. And these angels look like flying crafts. They look like flying geometric patterns. Yeah. I'm trying to remember, is a German guy I think who was really a tea.

1:24:22Yeah, that's the visions of what I saw today, but it was something like that. It was something like that. That was what it was, Jamie. Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly what it was. With a gyroscope. Yeah. Like, this is angels as described in the Bible. Yeah. Yeah. The four faces, a lion, a bear, a man, and an eagle. Who is that drawing by? I don't know. The chariot vision of Ezekiel. Van Daniken or something? Oh, Eric von Daniken, that guy? Yeah, I think. Is it that? No. No. No. That can't be it. I think that that's just an old art piece. Oh, fine name. See, go go to the Wikipedia again, Jamie. So you get the description.

1:25:14Didn't have anything. It just said it was a typical traditional depiction. Mm -hmm. Oh, okay. So it doesn't say who? Yeah, like a woodcutting of some sort. That's kind of how it was described. It's the Van Daniken thing. It's fast -standing. I had lunch with him once. Where? Peter Teals house. Oh, cool. Yeah. So Eric Weinstein said, hey, I would like you to come to this lunch. We're going to do with Eric von Daniken. You know a lot about that guy's stuff. I'm like, oh, I know everything about that guy's stuff. I've seen chariots of the gods, like fucking ten times. I've watched a hundred interviews of this guy.

1:25:48He's very, he's like all in on the idea that UFOs created all this stuff and they're all flying space men. And what who created the UFOs? That's a real good question. He doesn't have that information. Yeah, that's the first question I would ask him. But it's, you know, it's an, he's, he's a very nice guy. I don't want to say anything bad about him. And I really enjoyed chariots of the gods. It's a fun movie. It's like, have you ever seen it? Oh, no. It's wonderful. It's from like 1976, so played in the movie theaters. I remember when it came out. What year's chariots of the gods? It's pretty old.

1:26:23But in it, you know, he's all in on everything being evidence that UFOs were here and a lot of like real sketchy connections. In my opinion, I'm more inclined to go the Graham Hancock, Rendo Carlson route. I think there was a very sophisticated civilization that existed. Like, yeah, what year? 70. Damn. But we, I saw in the movie theater. I was a little kid. Yeah. But I think that it's, there's real evidence that there was a sophisticated civilization. The Egyptian pyramids are enough. It's just like whatever the hell was going on there, that was an insanely sophisticated civilization that existed 4 ,500 years ago, at least.

1:27:10And probably went back quite a bit further than that. You know, according to their higher glyphs, it went back 30 ,000 years. You know, whatever was going on there was pretty incredible. And I think to just say that the aliens did it, it seems a little silly. Because there's no evidence that the aliens did it. There's evidence that there's people around back then. Yeah. It's a case of Occam's razor. You know, the most sensible explanation is probably the most likely. Yeah. But then there's also so many stories of us being visited. In almost every ancient culture. Well, you know, is that like being visited or just the experience of being visited?

1:27:53Are they the same thing? Well, one would be physically manifest in the other. Would just be manifest in the mind. Well, I think a lot of people are starting to lean in this general direction of that. Perhaps we're trying to measure something that cannot be measured. Perhaps we're trying to like put something on a scale that does not necessarily physically exist. But also has the attributes of something that physically exists. Or they can manifest something that physically exists. But what it's kind of an illusion. And the whole thing is kind of going on simultaneously, interdimensionally. And that this is why we struggle with our definitions and our just our overall acceptance of even the possibility of it being real.

1:28:47I mean, people, I think most people when you talk to them about UFOs, if they don't have any skin in the game, they'll tell you they believe in UFOs, they'll tell you they think we've been visited because it's fun. But if you said to them, if you had a bet, everything you have, everything you have on the government has recovered crashed UFOs and that they visit us and they come from the palatine star system and they've been here from the beginning of time. Or there's weird conscious experiences, weird doors, portals of consciousness that open up that allow you to see things that might not necessarily be physically measurable, but also real.

1:29:36And that these things are what everybody's talking about in these ancient religious stories, these things are things that people are talking about when they claim they've been abducted by UFOs, then something landed. And even like the physical remnants of these crafts, that might all of it might be just a part of this very bizarre psychic experiment that's going on. That as the mind expands its ability to understand other realms and as the like you have to think of, you don't have to. The way I think of it is like we didn't used to be able to see. So is it an emerging trait of single cell organisms, no site, if you believe in evolution, it goes to multi cell organisms, eventually goes to site.

1:30:25So it's an emerging part of being a living thing so you can say, then language, we didn't used to be able to talk now we talk freely. So there was an emerging thing, an ability that human beings had. And I think consciousness, psychic ability, precognition, remote viewing, all this stuff. For most people, that's a nonsense thought. But I think the thought is so prevalent in so many different cultures. Psychic phenomena is discussed ubiquitously in every corner of the world. And I think it's probably an emerging part of being a human being. Well, do you think it's biologically based? It would need to be if it were universal like that.

1:31:16Chemically based, biologically based. I'm sure it probably has a lot to do with the diet of the creatures. If humans are consistently, if they're in the Amazon, you're consistently taking ayahuasca, eating mushrooms, and having rituals, you're probably in that realm more often the regular person who eats McDonald's and drinks coffee at Starbucks. And it's stressed out because they work all day and is on SSRIs. You're probably not getting much of that at all. There's a lot of telepathy I think that occurs in those kinds of cultures. You know, they share dreams and they share visions. It's very interesting.

1:31:51Well, you know that that's what they tried to initially call harming. Right. They discovered it. They tried to call it telepathy. Telepathy, and exactly. Right. Right. But it already existed under the definition of the nomenclature. They called it harming. So they had to like go, okay, well it's already named too bad. It was called telepathy. Right. It was synthesized by somebody and got that name. But the people that were experiencing it then when they wanted to name a telepathy, they wanted to name it that because they were experiencing telepathic. Right. They were having these weird experiences where they were sharing moments.

1:32:24Shared visions. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think you can share visions just like you can share thoughts. You know, you can or you share feelings. I think just a little more complex. The thing about that is if it's local and there's other communication. Right. If you're both in the same room and like your friend says, not the pyramid. Like I always tell you the pyramid now. You know, you know what I mean? Yeah. Or if you guys are nowhere near each other, you can't hear each other. You can't and then you independently write down what you experienced. And then that person says, that's exact. And they have the exact same thing.

1:32:56So they have no interaction with you before they write down what they experienced or recorded or what have you. But they're the same. They're having the same thing. Yeah. Do you know of Rupert Sheldrake's work? Yes. Yeah. I've had Rupert on. You have. Okay. Great. Yeah. I'm so he's spoken to you about his morphic residents. His morphic residents and these large scale experiments with a lot of people from the public. They, you know, see the, you know, they they will make, you know, cold calls and people are expecting them. You know, the dog knows it's going to come your own, their own is going to come home much sooner or at a different time than.

1:33:32Yeah. And they can sense it and they're ready. Yeah. Yeah. So there is, you know, like awareness that a distance seems to be. But I, you know, I think it also must occur between people or things which have already got a strong relationship. Yeah. Like rats when they teach them how to do a maze on the East Coast, they figure out how to do a quick on the West Coast. You see those right? Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, crystal formation. I was, you know, thinking about a dream I had once of my washing machine. I was traveling. And I had a dream about my washing machine that stopped working. And I, you called home and I said, you know, how's the washer?

1:34:14And she said, it's broken. I spoke to a rupert and I said, you can you explain that? And he said, you must have a strong relationship to your washing machine. Well, you know, yeah. Yeah. Kind of a sense. I mean, cross species, you know, cross life forms almost communication. Well, I mean, do you think things would work out if there were universal language or I mean, would we just build a tower of, you know, Babel all over again? Or would we like do something, you know, good, you know, for everyone? I think we have the potential now because we're, we're not if, if we can develop universal language, when you have, you have real communication with people globally.

1:35:00That's never existed before instantaneous real communication through devices. That's never existed. So that's a different factor when you consider a universal language. So if you have real communication with people, then you have universal language. And then here's the big one, the ability to detect deception. So if we really are all communicating through some sort of neural implant. And we really are doing this telepathically with a universal language. And we're experiencing each other's consciousness in a way that eliminates all possibility of deception. You can see envy, greed, anger, we, you can see these things in people's thoughts.

1:35:48If this becomes a possibility. And I think it's within the realm of science. I think it's within the realm of technological possibility. When that does happen, it will mean a very different thing to be a human being. And I think it could be one of the greatest things that's ever happened because it would force us to only communicate at a higher level. You, you, there would be no benefit in bullshit anymore. It would be the opposite. It would actually be detrimental. You would be ostracized. No one would want to communicate with you anymore. Well, you'd be speaking of the truth all the time all the time.

1:36:26Yeah, yeah, all the time. There'd be no more lying. No more lying impossible to lie, which I think is fascinating. I don't think that would work. Why not? Well, I mean, there are some lies that are told for the sake of peace. Right. But what are the parameters? Like what are the confines of our society and of our just geopolitically low, you know, in terms of environments we exist. Like, what why? Why? What what lies would be good for peace? There wouldn't be better if everybody just knew exactly what was going on. Well, if everybody knew exactly what was going on, that would be something different.

1:37:06But I think, you know, in the meantime, there are some benefits, you know, to white lies. Sure, as a human being. Right. With a limited as limited ability to communicate and, you know, you don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. Sure. Yeah. But if you're not a human being anymore, essentially, you're a cyborg. And you're connected through a neural link to the whole world. There's going to be zero benefit in lying. Right. Well, you're, you know, suggesting a new species of man. I am suggesting a new species of man. Yeah. One of my favorite books is called First and Last Men. It's by Olaf Stapleton.

1:37:45He's a British science fiction writer from the 1930s, 1940s. And he describes 19 species of man that extends over two billion years. And the final species is living on one of the outer planets. They live 35 ,000 years because that's how long I'm it takes, you know, to learn everything. And every so often, they all communicate telepathically over on the whole globe. And it's like this big event, obviously, happens every whatever 20 ,000 years. Yeah. And they work up to it. Yeah. It's an inspiring book. Actually, it's one of my favorite. You know what I another more controversial thought that I have about all this stuff is that ultimately the big bottleneck with information is going to be money because money right now is just ones and zeros, right.

1:38:39Money is just information on it's just you, we agree that you have X amount of dollars here. That's we agree. You know, it's not a gold standard anymore. So it's not backed by anything. It's just a weird thing. So that's that's information. The trend with technologies, we have more and more access to information. And ultimately we're going to have instantaneous access to information. But then we have this money thing. We have money, which is in and as people get better and better at cracking and coding. Like you're not going to have encrypted money. You're not going to have encrypted info. It's not going to be possible, especially when quantum computing becomes ubiquitous.

1:39:24Like we're all operating off. It's like it's all done. And if this happens at the same time when we're all sharing our thoughts impossible to lie and then universal language and money. So then you have an even distribution of resources that's not based at all on capitalism. It's an abandonment of capitalism, not but not in like a Marxist communist way in sort of a practical utilitarian way to deal with the fact that everybody's communicating with everybody instantaneously. You can't have a guy who lives in a fucking castle. And another guy lives in a favela with a dirt floor and no food if we're all existing as one.

1:40:08Well, it would require a change in human nature. Yeah. Well, human nature won't be human nature once this happens. Whatever you think of human nature is of now. It's like you can tell me something. I don't know if you're telling me the truth. I can kind of gas. I have a feeling, but I don't know. So that makes progress slow. Well, do you think that you know that's the technology will change human nature? Of course. Or yeah, definitely. Yeah. But just by design, if you if you're communicating telepathically and you can instantaneously detect it makes deception possible. Right? Because you're only able to like express your thoughts.

1:40:47Yeah, I have a feeling that won't be very popular. Well, it won't be popular with the kind of humans that exist today. Right. So well, human nature have to change first before there is a agreement to undertake that. Well, I think it'll just change with it. Well, one of the good things is we might be able to completely eliminate things like depression, suicidal thoughts, mental illnesses. Maybe we could recognize that these are simply patterns in the way this thing operates. And if you just optimize it, it no longer has these patterns. If everybody has like this increased level of dopamine, for example, yeah, yeah, like everybody just increased dopamine 300%.

1:41:28Well, and increased oxytocin. Yes, yes, everybody loves everybody. Everybody loves everybody. We're walking around a state of tripping. We're all in ecstasy together. It's a low level where you're functional, you're not going to crash your car. Right. But you probably want to have cars anymore anyway. They'll be driving you around. Well, an interesting thought is maybe you can increase levels of endogenous DMT in everyone genetically. Sure, or on cue, like whenever you'd want it. Yeah, I think the rapture may have a biological basis in that regard. Like it's a timed event, which is worldwide that turns on the DMT synthesizing machinery.

1:42:09And everybody connects all the minds together in the universal language. That's one big blowout. And we emerge from our violent monkey past and become the next version of what it means to be a human being. Well, which would be non -material? You know, the DMT world is non -material. Right. It's visual. So we might just transcend into some... I think everybody in this kind of scenario, everybody would drop dead. But isn't it more than visual? It's visual in the sense that you experience it with your eyes, but your brain is experiencing something too. You just don't know what to do with it. You don't know where it goes.

1:42:48So you say it's visual. I'm seeing it. But you're not just seeing it. You're experiencing it. Well, I think it's a world made of light. I think that's the way... And we perceive life through the eyes. It's visually experienced. But whenever you have a visual with your eyes closed, it's tough to call it a visual. I mean, obviously it's interacting with that part of your brain. Well, you call it that after the fact. Yeah, it's after you come down with... You know, when you're drinking... Right. But if you ever opened your eyes on DMT, there was this video while watching the other day online where these people...

1:43:24They put them on DMT and then they had lasers. The red laser effect. Yes. Tell me about that. Yeah, I just found out about it a couple days ago. You? Yeah. You just found out about it. That's crazy. Yeah. I just found out about it a couple days ago. Yeah. Yeah. A friend is putting together a piece on that phenomenon and he wanted my opinion. Can you explain it to people with their experiencing? Well, I think what happens... And you know, this is just a very cursory assessment of the project. But people smoke DMT and then they project this white... Or this... This project... A myred laser onto the wall.

1:44:13And if you look very carefully at it from what I understand, you can see the matrix. You see code in my laser. Yeah. Yeah. Can we take a bit of a break? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A bit of a break, Jason. Then we'll be right back. It's not that he doesn't have faults. He most certainly has faults. But they all have faults. It's just they had control of the media and they turned him into something that he wasn't just 10 years ago to them. Very strange how it was done. Yeah. And we all were a victim of it. Everybody like you don't want to admit that he has any positive qualities. So you get labeled and not seen.

1:44:49Yeah. Well, and why do you think that happened? Well, because he is an outsider and he is someone who did not come through the political system. So it doesn't have all these relationships and all of these intertwined conflictions with corporations and all these different businesses that have paid for his campaign, the campaign self -financed. And then you have someone who didn't play the game to get in there and you can't have that. You can't have that. If you have that and this guy doesn't want wars, he doesn't want us giving money to foreign companies and foreign countries and propping up dictators, we can't have that.

1:45:29We need that. That's part of the American machine. That's how it all works. The military and industrial complex. It's real. Yeah. It's been real for a long time. I mean, when Eisenhower talked about it on television at the end of his term, it's kind of a crazy moment in history that was just broadcast on television and wasn't really revisited until YouTube came around. It was ignored. Yeah. It was conveniently ignored. Yeah. Yeah. I think with RFK Jr. when he gets in, we have a real possibility of opening up psychedelic treatment for veterans, which I think is the best way to start it off because they're the most deserving of it.

1:46:12They're the people we ask of the most and there's been a lot of people that have had some pretty profound changes take place because of psychedelic experiences. I think it's going to need to be scaled up. And what that scaling up looks like still isn't really worked out. Right. I think they should develop special clinics. You know, where you wouldn't actually be doing research and you wouldn't need incredibly strong data to justify that kind of treatment. You just need an indication that it was helpful. Right. And have specialized therapists, pure drug. It wouldn't be schedule one kind of super restrictive research, but it wouldn't be just a wild West any but anything goes.

1:47:00I think there needs to be some kind of middle institution development where, you know, a lot of people can go who would benefit from psychedelic assisted therapy. And yeah, the vet makes sense. And you know, so many homeless people are more veterans like an albacricky. There's an enormous homeless population. A large number of them are vets. They're really not treated all that well. No, no, they're not. And it's not like this idea of not having robust clinical research to show efficacy like on a physiological level. That doesn't really exist with SSRIs anyway. And they're already prescribing them.

1:47:42Like there's so much anecdotal story. So many of them of guys going to Mexico taking I began taking DMT, psilocybin experiences and coming back and just like sorted their life out. It's amazing. A couple of weeks ago we read a conference up in Denver and I was, you know, doing some book signing. You know, some guy, my generation, you came up to me and he told a story after he returned from Vietnam. He was using basically every drug in a bad way, bad drugs in a bad way. And he smoked DMT one day, stop using everything. He even moved to live across the street from a liquor store to be able to demonstrate that he had that willpower that had just changed with one DMT experience.

1:48:30Wow. Any future drinking. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So those kinds of stories, he just can't ignore you. There's too many of them. And I know I have personal friends that have gone through it and changed their life. Quit drinking got their shit together, became a much nicer person. Like sometimes people are just burdened by the stress of what they've experienced, especially war, which is the most horrific thing that people can experience. You're burdened by this. And sometimes they don't know how to shut those demons off. They don't know how to shut it off. And something can come along, whether it's a DMT experience, Iawaska, I began, there's a bunch of different anecdotal stories that I've heard of different things.

1:49:14I was reading something about Colorado today. Colorado is doing some new psilocybin research thing where they're opening up clinics now. Yeah. Yeah. They're going to be opening up these healing clinics, which will be more or less based on the Oregon model. You license the therapists. You have to account for your supply of drugs and quality control, those kinds of things. I would worry about that. Like we're talking about like control. And that's where you would open up the door to potential spiritual narcissism. You could see someone starting a nice cult that way. Well, you control the mushrooms.

1:49:56You control some mushrooms. Well, you know, it wouldn't be the first time that your psychedelic cults, you know, emerged. Yeah. Well, do you, are you familiar with the Rajneesh story? Which one's that? In Antelope, Oregon, there was this. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. Wild, wild country. I love that one. Yeah. That's also that's that's oh show. Oh, oh, oh show. Oh show. Yeah. Oh show or also. I think oh show. You got me confused. I said, oh, so which one? Oh show. Oh show. He's my favorite. He's it. But the people. Bog one. All the tired. Yeah. That's that guy. Yeah. That guy. Oh show. I read his book.

1:50:41Because I watch wild, wild country. It was so blown away by it that I read his book. And it's actually like very interesting. I mean, I think he's written more than one book. I forget which one I have. But I read it a few years back. And I was like, this is a fascinating person. Like he's doesn't seem like a cult leader. What's the main message that he's trying to get across? Well, it's just sort of like a guidebook for life. Like see, pull up his books. I'll tell you which one it was. The book of secrets. He's got a Centero. Can you show me what they look like? So I can see the covers.

1:51:16One would always wonder if it's one of the few books I have. It's a physical copy too. I'd have to go back and look at it. You kind of wonder if these are transcriptions of his talks or things that other people helped him write or he wrote things that other people wrote for him. For the people is or by the people. They did a dirty thing there. They took all those homeless people and they brought them to the so they could count as voters. And then they kicked them out. Yeah. Where are they trying to poison the city council or something? They poison everybody. Yeah. They poisoned people when they were trying to take over politically.

1:51:56But that was that one woman. What was her name? Rita? Was that her name? The one woman who got in trouble. She she was kind of running the cult. She was all right. She was pretty brutal. Well, you know, I spent some time at a Zen monastery. I was actually as a young man thinking of becoming a monk. How long did you spend there? Not that long because my depression lifted while I was there. I think my motivation to become a monk was because of how depressed I was. I didn't think I was able to really function any other way than in a cloister more or less. Yeah. But then my depression cleared and I went back to school.

1:52:36But I stayed associated with them for over 20 years. I went up there. What do you attribute your depression lifting to? Well, it was I think it was a minor enlightenment experience. That's not to say that I'm enlightened or anything. But you know, but if you look at the you know, the phenomenology of the enlightenment experience, it's on a scale. You know, there's the gradations like the major one and then smaller little ones. Yeah. I was walking back from a work assignment. They were asked, well, one thing they liked doing was because I was a medical student back there back then. You thought I was hot shit.

1:53:17I was always given the worst assignments, you know, the worst work assignments like clean their toilets or knock down this hill. You know, so one day they said, you can you move that hill. So I had my shovel and my pick us 22 years old or whatnot. Yeah. And I was coming back from the work project and my depression just lifted right off my shoulders. It was the damn dis thing is about 15, you know, 30 seconds or so. I thought, oh, that's pretty interesting. Yeah. And the end of the day came and I woke up the next morning and I was still feeling pretty good. Well, and yeah, you know, so I was indebted to them for helping pull me out of that bad mood.

1:54:00It was a bad mood too. I had to drop out of school. Was it directly after you had to move the hill? It was on the way back to the tool shed. Yeah. Did you do anything before that physically? You know, I don't remember what my other work assignment was. It was an afternoon work assignment as I remember. I mean in your life. Did you ever do any hard labor? Oh, it would work out. It would take a sport. Yeah, I ran track. It was the sprints though. So it was just a sudden burst of energy. It wasn't anything prolonged. You know, I've done a lot of strenuous hiking and backpacking this sprinting when you were doing that.

1:54:43Did you particularly happy or depressed when you were doing that? No, well, you know, sprinting itself is great. I don't mean that. I mean during the time period where you were participating in sprinting, did you have any depression? No, no. Well, I suppose, you know, you know, teen angst. Yeah, you know, teenage your angst growing up in the San Fernando Valley. Right. That everybody asks. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had that while I was doing martial arts. It's not like it cures it. But I do know personally me. If I go long periods of time where I don't exercise, I get depressed. I don't feel good.

1:55:17I feel shitty. I feel off. I think our bodies have put vanity aside because I think a lot of very intelligent people associate exercise with vanity. But I think your body has a physical requirement to achieve like homeostasis, to achieve balance, to achieve like an ability to kind of like exist in a neutral place. You're always affected by the world. But the more neutral you are, the better. Like the more you're just, you exist. And you're not like constantly wound up about something or constantly upset about this or constantly fearing that or being overwhelmed with anxiety. I think some of that is in response to a lack of physical movement.

1:56:05I think the body is designed to exist in a very primal world that doesn't exist anymore. And so because the body had a lot of requirements 10 ,000, 15 ,000 years ago, I think we're still programmed in that general way. And that the only way to keep a balance of the mind and the body together for me is to constantly engage in exercise rigorous exercise. Yeah, what kind of diet do you follow? Mostly I eat meat. Mostly meat. Mostly meat. Yeah. I eat beef by a lot of wild game, a lot of elk, I eat deer and wild pigs. I do eat some vegetables sometimes, but only if I feel like it. Yeah, I don't eat them for nutrition.

1:56:51I eat fruit and I take a lot of vitamins. Yeah, and no greens. I mean, all the greens every now and then I'll have like a salad if I feel like I have an assaloud, but I don't think I'm having a salad for health. You know, I think it's for taste. Yeah, it's for just like eating stuff. Yeah, do you know pretzels? I do. I try not to eat them. Yeah, I love pretzels. That's my week. The couple shit, but I was at the mall the other day and who walked by what is it? Annie's Annie's pretzels? Is that what it is? It's crack. I didn't eat one, but that smell, the smell in the air was like there was a giant ass line, a huge line.

1:57:26There's no line for anything else in that food court. That pretzel line. There must be something in those pretzels. Deliciousness. Yeah, MDMA. They're so good. They're so good. Now there's no MDMA. It's just delicious. You feel terrible right after you ate it. Like what did I do? That's like MDMA. Yeah, but there's no 5 -HTP that you can take. It's going to help you. The down you feel off of a pretzel sometimes is worth it though, because they're so delicious, especially the ones that wrap a hot dog in the pretzel. A month or two ago, I was at Union Station in Los Angeles and there was a stand you're selling the encased hot dogs in pretzels.

1:58:08You have to apply a fair amount of mustard. They're so good though. It's delicious. Terrible for you. So good though. We took an Amtrak back from Union Station to Albuquerque. You're like an overnight. How's that? Well, it was quaint, but it wasn't like efficient. It's too slow. It's pretty slow, pretty noisy. And you start thinking, I could have been on a plane. What have you been there? Right. It would have been just two hours rather than whatever it was 14 or so. Yeah, stupid. Well, look at European trains though. You can really have fun on a European train. They're comfy. They're on time. Good food.

1:58:45Good coffee. What's the fastest train? Is it Japan? Do they have the bullet trains? I think the Chinese trains or the Japanese. Yeah, really, really fast. Yeah, that's one of the things that Elon was trying to do with America. They were trying to put bullet trains that would take you from San Francisco to New York City in like a few hours. Yeah, I mean, there should be no reason not to do that. The only reason would other than the automobile industry. Well, also tracks like who's watching those tracks? If you go in a thousand miles an hour or whatever you're going, who's watching the tracks? Who's making sure someone doesn't put something on the tracks?

1:59:23Right. That's even a concern now, but yeah, it's certainly be if the people are going a thousand miles an hour. Yeah, like I'm amazed at how few derailments there are. If you think about how many trains are flying back and forth. Yeah, well, I lived in Gallup, New Mexico for years, and it's a train town more or less. And you know, there were, I think they, there were three trains came through every hour, you know, 24 or 7. Wow. 70 trains, 75 trains every day would go through town. And there were very few derailments. That's crazy. Yeah, they're pretty effective. But you're constantly waiting for trains then.

2:00:01Like there's always those things that come down. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Oh, yeah. Yes, it there and wait where the train flies by. Yeah, it was a point of controversy in that little town. Like, were they going to build a tunnel underneath or a bridge over? Yeah. Yeah, you know, the business folks in, you know, the downtown area. And it would be noisy too. The trains would go by 35 miles an hour. And they're big trains. Like, you know, some of the cargo trains are more than a mile long. And they can just take you forever to cross second and third street. And you're just stuck there. Yeah, fuck that.

2:00:38Right. Well, I just wouldn't want to be in a place that's that noisy. Especially if you're, you're in New Mexico. It's kind of quiet. Well, your bones rattle when the trains go by hand. You know, they honk their, their horns. Like they have to do three than two than three than two. Well, there's some apartments in New York's, New York City, where the apartment building's there. And the train's going right in front of the apartment building. Exactly. That's crazy. Yeah. Like how cheap is that rent that you've agreed to that? Yeah. And the long term effects on your mental health. Oh, physical health.

2:01:11Yeah. Well, whenever someone's crazy in a movie, they always live there. It's like right where the train is. You know, he just kind of accentuates their craziness, right? They get no rest. I know. Well, you know, my mom's mom lived in a little town in Western Pennsylvania. And you know, the cold trains would, would pass through her backyard, basically. Like, you know, there's a little hill in her backyard and the train tracks. And I really enjoyed sitting there as the trains went by, you know, smelling the exhaust. That was, you know, something that's an early manifestation of my engine. Look at this.

2:01:50Look at this. It's going to be seen in China. Whoa, that's crazy. It goes through the building. That's what they say. That would be noisy. Imagine if you're above that, trying to sleep. Fuck out of here. Yeah. That's nuts. That's not real. Whoa. That can't be real. Yeah. That can't be real. Yeah. They couldn't find anybody to live there. You could. Well, I guess, personally, somebody would agree. It could be a jail or a prison to you. Yeah, or just some crazy person. They just think that's a good idea. You know, a lot of people like to live in different ways. They have this, they're like their markets right on the train line.

2:02:30Whoa. And they have to like pick up the stuff when it comes through. What? Yeah. And that's efficient. So they quickly grab their baskets and stuff and pull it out of the way. Yeah. Like people are walking on the train track. That's nuts. That is crazy. Yeah. And rather than move, they just figure it out. Wow. Eight times a day, seven days a week. Wow. You have to put things away. You have three minutes. Oh, really? Wow. Yeah. How many dogs do they lose every year? Well, through the sides too. I'm sure. You lost the people that, like, at this, the small town I was living in. Yeah, you know, that would be like a regular thing if people would lay down on the tracks of you.

2:03:16We're having a bad day. Imagine if we can cure that with Elon Musk's neural ink. Everybody sign up on the reservation might be hard to, you know, get the word out there. Yeah, they probably don't want to listen to you anyway. They probably want you to take it so that you all go extinct. They'll take over again. Some crazy white man idea. I mean, these are people that were hesitant to agree to get photographed. You know, they're going to be the last adopters. This stupid fucking brain implant. Yeah. These stupid white people are doing. Well, you know, well, so Gallup is like on their reservation.

2:03:56You're pretty much the Navajo reservation. Yeah, and most of the population on his native. Yeah. So it was pretty interesting you're living among the natives for 14 years. And, you know, their view of white people is they're noisy. They're superficial and they're kind of dumb. Well, there's plenty of examples that would support that if you were inclined to be, you know, less charitable. Yeah. Yeah. And make a rash generalization about white people. Well, I learned to be quiet there because there isn't anything to do. And, you know, there aren't that many people. We were talking about this before.

2:04:41It aired. One of the big reasons you moved out of there was. It was hard to get healthcare, right? The healthcare was rather poor. Yeah. Like I came down with pneumonia. This is 2014. And I was not. I didn't receive the best care and did advocating C diff. Because of all the antibiotics. I was that it's this horrible diarrhea. It's like a fatal diarrhea. I think 30 ,000 people in the country die every year from C diff. Whoa. Yeah. And I was battling that. You know, the quality of the care was so poor that I was taking notes. And I thought, if I live through this, I'm going to write about it. And so that is the basis of that autobiographical novel I wrote a few years ago.

2:05:32Joseph Levy escapes death. Yeah. It's an account of. I remember I was worried about you, but I didn't want to pry. Because we had gone back and forth in the email and you were just telling me your health was not well. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We were talking about the possibility of me being on your show. Yeah. Just too sick. I can't travel. Yeah. Generally people don't bounce back when they say they're that sick. I was really worried about you. But I didn't want to. I still know like, how does one, you know, I don't want to pry. You know, I felt like if you want to tell me about what's going on, you would tell me about what's going on.

2:06:07Yeah. It was a really hard time. Yeah. And I bounced back like I swore. You look great. Yeah. You look better than ever actually. Oh, thanks. You really do. You too.

2:06:18Yeah. I swore I would bounce back and feel even better than I did before I got sick. But it was a chore. Well, it did strengthen my belief in God, speaking of God. Like I wasn't quite well, that God was not quite ready to take me. And I wanted to become closer to that power that led, you know, that led me live. And did you feel like because God was not, God did not want to take you. Did you feel like it worked to do? Yeah. Yeah. I had to get back to work. I had to continue being useful. Like I just couldn't rest on my laurels. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you had called and you said, how's it going?

2:07:06I'd say bad.

2:07:09Sounds like it was real bad. Yeah. That's why I was worried. Yeah. Because, you know, I'm just too used to getting those kind of emails and then you hear that someone passed away. Oh, yeah. I know. And, you know, in my generation, it's, you know, kind of accelerating. Yeah. Yeah. So when you did finally get out of this, how long was like the actual sick period? How long was the period where you were really hurting? Well, the pneumonia was about 10 days. And the C -Diff started about 10 days after that and went on for six weeks. Whoa. Yeah. I lost 15 pounds. Whoa. Yeah. Thin guide to begin with.

2:07:52Yeah. I didn't have 15 pounds to lose. So, yeah. I found a good psychotherapist. I went in there and fell asleep. You know, the first visit. I said, I'm really tired. I feel really weak. And, you know, that was it. And I started working with her for like the next four years. Yeah. Yeah. Because obviously things had gotten so, you know, so dire because I wasn't taking care of myself. Right. So I had to kind of get to the bottom of that. Yeah. So, you know, took another maybe seven months before I started to feel like my strength back and my brain functioning again. You know, one turning point, this might interest, you know, some of your listeners is I got, you have accinated, you know, for the flu.

2:08:38In like January, which was nine months after this, I'll started. And it was the most painful vaccination I'd ever had. It was beyond 10. It wasn't even throbbing. It was just constant. Like beyond any pain in my arm, I'd ever felt. How long did it last? 12 hours. And I woke up feeling great. Wow. Like the best I had felt in almost a year. So after 12 hours, just wore off. I went to bed thinking God, I hope this wears off. Or else I'm going to have to get some attention. Yeah, just wore off. And I felt pretty darn good the next morning. Oh, weird. Very weird. I guess my immune system just really needed to just get sucked or something.

2:09:17Yeah. And it seemed to have, you know, done the trick. Just strange that you have like a local pain. It's that intense. It was generally don't hear about that. Yeah. Yeah. It was just at the vaccination site. Very interesting. Yeah, weird. Do you get vaccinated? This might be a personal question. No, you can ask me anything. Yeah. Yeah. No. I almost got vaccinated for COVID. Right. I was wondering. I was totally willing to do it. It was the early days of the pandemic. And the UFC had allocated about, I think it was 150 or so doses for all their employees because they were running shows during the pandemic when everyone was terrified of it.

2:09:57So I go to Vegas to do this UFC event. And you had to add a test before I leave. Then you fly test when you get there. And you know, they're really strict with their protocols. Make sure that no one was sick. When people were sick, like if someone, like a fighter's corner man was sick, everyone was kicked off the all those people were off. The fighter couldn't compete even if he was negative. Okay. Because he had been exposed. Right. So they were real strict. And so they said, we have these vaccines if you want one. They didn't tell me I had to take it, but they said, if you want one, I said, sure.

2:10:32I said, can I get it right before the fights? And they said, sure. And they didn't know that I had to go to the actual clinic or the hospital. So I contacted the doctor. I said, hey, I'm here. Can I can you vaccinate me before the show? He said, you actually have to go to the clinic on Monday. Can you can you stay to Monday? And I said, I can't, but I'll be back in two weeks for the next event. So during the time where I was going to get shot and then two weeks later, they pulled it. So the Johnson Johnson vaccine got pulled because people were getting blood clots. And so then two people that I knew that it did get it had strokes.

2:11:10I don't know if it was a coincidence, but it seemed rather odd. And then I started getting nervous. And so then I started reading different things by different scientists that out opposing perspectives on both the efficacy and the safety of the vaccine. And then I got COVID. And then when I got COVID, I go to over it really quickly. And then I got attacked on CNN. So I was like, okay, what's going on here? Like why you guys upset that I took a certain medicine and got better? I've never even heard of such a thing. And they started labeling it this Ivermectin as a horse dewormer, which is crazy because one of the Nobel Prize for people.

2:11:49So it was like I was watching this bizarre thing take place in scale on mass media against me. But against me in the most preposterous way possible because I was healthy. I got better quick. Like in three days, I was better and I made a video in six days. I was working out like full steam. I didn't I didn't get sick for long at all. And I listed a bunch of different medications that I took. But for one for whatever reason, they labeled Ivermectin as the thing that needed to be attacked. And it was they all in lockstep, MSNBC, CNN, newspapers, all of them making these ridiculous statements that I was taking veterinary medicine.

2:12:30I got medicine from a doctor from a pharmacy, an actual human doctor, medication for humans. And more importantly, I got better, like really quick. Like what is happening here? This is the strangest thing I've ever seen in my life. It was like this mass psychosis that was propagated by the media who were only in ten on keeping everyone terrified and offering only one solution. And that solution just coincidentally happened to be insanely profitable. Yeah, that's hard to figure. It was weird to go through. It's very very weird to go through. So, needless to say, I have become very skeptical about a lot of narratives that are expressed constantly without any real examination.

2:13:21Well, do you think they're going after you or going after the Ivermectin? Going after the Ivermectin, 100%. I was a simple, easy to make fun of person who did a ridiculous thing. And that's why they were able to say horse deepwormer. But it's such a dumb thing to say because we have, it was a playbook that would have been really effective in 1998. You could have gotten that done in 1998. The problem is there's too much information that's available. And when you're mocking a person for taking a drug that a human being won the Nobel Prize for in like 2015 for its use in humans, that seems insane.

2:14:03Also, you're knocking people taking off label medication under the advice of a trained physician. What? Like, what's going on? And who are these people that are doing this? These talking heads on CNN? Why are they all agreeing? How come not one person is saying, hey, what is the reason why Ivermectin would be taken in the first place? Oh, oh, it stops viral replication in vitro? Or maybe there's some, maybe there's some reason to use this. Maybe these doctors are correct. All these anecdotal stories about people taking it and then getting better quickly. Like, is there anything to this? But there was none of that in the media because they are sponsored by pharmaceutical drug companies who clearly had marching orders.

2:14:44Yeah, what do you make of this virus that's killing folks in the Congo? Jesus, who knows? Yeah, I don't know anything about it. 170 people have died. They don't know what it is. Some really African virus. They're fun. Yeah. See if Bill Gates had been visiting there lately. Yeah. I don't know. I'm terrified of pandemics for sure. I just that one wasn't one to be terrified of and they made us terrified of it, which makes me terrified. Yeah. Because that was one where they, you know, we talked about this in the podcast where they made fun of Donald Trump because he was saying it's less than 1 % of the people who get it die.

2:15:22And then CNN was mocking him saying it's 3 .4%. It's 3 .4%. You know, it was considerably less than 1 % he was right, but they had marching orders and his marching orders was to scare the shit out of people and to tell them to get vaccinated. It was a scary time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They closed down the town that I was living in back then, Gallup. It was closed down. You couldn't go into it if you didn't live there. God's a weird four, nine days. Well, you know, nine days better than California. California, they did a whole year and a half of like complete restrictions. They were stopping outdoor dining just arbitrarily.

2:15:58I had a friend and his brother works for the state and he said to the lady who was in charge of it, he said, why are you stopping outdoor dining? There's no evidence that there's spread throughout door dining. And she said it's the optics. The optics. Like when a shot businesses down for optics because they had to show that they're doing something because there's like a noticeable spread that's being reported in the media. Yeah. That's called virtue signaling, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's also your, the real problem is their jobs are not dependent upon their society functioning. They get paid no matter what.

2:16:36So society crumbles and all these businesses. They all 70 % of their restaurants at one point in time. 70 % just went under. That's insane to continue a practice like that, especially where within six months, they should have known that it wasn't as fatal as everybody said it was when they already had the data and about how come all these people that are dying, they all have like significant amount of comorbidities. How come all these people that are dying are over the age of 80? How come it doesn't mean fuck those people. It means protect those people, but let everybody else get back to work.

2:17:10Like you just have control of these people and you're continuing to enforce this control while their lives are destroyed. How many people turn to drugs? How many people committed suicide because they lost everything completely out of their power? How many lives were lost? How many kids had their childhood stripped away from them and have significant learning problems. Not just because they didn't go to school, but because even when they went to school, they had to wear a mask. So the whole reading people's lips and hearing sounds come out. Everything was weird. Reading faces was weird if you're a toddler and your experience is going through the first couple of years of your schooling and your preschool with fucking masks on.

2:17:49Like what is that? What do we do to these people? Well, we'll find out. Yeah. Yeah. And the only good out of it, in my opinion, is that people realize that it was stupid and they won't be as quick to accept it in the future. You think if there's another pandemic? Right. I don't think people are going to accept the government, which is filled with a bunch of fucking silly people that have decided to run the government. Having could complete control of whether or not you can run your business or you can decide to take a trip somewhere or you could visit your parents when they're in the hospital.

2:18:27Like all that is crazy. Yeah. I wonder what impact RFK juniors going to have on the delivery of healthcare now. Well, he's going to have so much of an impact that they're talking about preemptively pardoning Fauci. Like, well, how do you pardon someone that didn't do a crime? Preemptively. How are you pardoning someone where he's not not only is he not convicted of a crime? He's not even tried. He's not accused. He's not indicted. What do you? I guess that's called blanket immunity. Yeah. Well, it's never been done before. There's never been preemptive part in people that may have been committing crimes.

2:19:09It's weird. Yeah. Well, do you know much about the fluoride story? A lot of people wonder about the pineal gland and DMT synthesis if you have a calcified pineal, which is more likely in, you know, if you're fluoridated. Have they ever done autopsy studies on people that in high fluoride areas check out their pineal glands? Or is this just like one of those things that people say? Well, it's the case in lower animals that you feed them a high fluoride diet and their pineal glands calcified more rapidly. I'm not sure what the human literature is. So when you say that, when they calcify more rapidly, like what animals are they serving them?

2:19:50Oh, fluoride. You know rats, mice. And what have the results been like significant differences? Yeah, I mean, you're putting these experimental animals pineal glands anyway. Yeah, they do calcify more rapidly. But whether or not that actually correlates to a reduction in melatonin production, for example, I'm not that familiar with the literature. Is the number commensurate with what would even be possible through fluoride and water or it would have to be some other form of poison? Is it like a very high level of fluoride that they're giving them? With the experimental animals, yeah, this fluoride rich kind of diet.

2:20:33So then the question would be what about the accumulation of fluoride in small doses over the course of a long lifetime? Yeah, I'm just not that current on the literature. There's a couple of things that occur that cause pineal calcification. One is aging. The older you get, the more calcification there is. You know, back when I was, you know, current on the pineal physiology data, which was a long time ago, like, you know, 40 years ago, you know, there wasn't a relationship between the degree of calcification in the human pineal and production of melatonin. So, like, at least according to the data from the 80s, the degree of calcification wasn't functionally significant.

2:21:25But I get an email here and they're wondering if fluoridation of the pineal might reduce the production of endogenous DMT, which might theorize takes place. Yeah, but we don't really know quite yet if the pineal even makes DMT. You've, you know, you'll let alone if pineal calcification might reduce it. Wouldn't it be interesting to measure different lifestyles and then also look at the age in which these people are and see if there's like, when they die, if there's calcification, you know, give you have one person who's a marathon runner and they're 65 versus one person who's sedentary drinks a lot and they're also 65.

2:22:07Yeah, you would think it would correlate with your overall general health. Right. Yeah. I mean, if you're thinking that it's age -related, it may be age -related or is it exposure over long periods of time, you know, where it accumulates? Because the amount of fluoride that's in the water is very small. And this is one of the things that people point to when they say that it's not dangerous. It's very small. But the question is like, how, where's it go? Like, does it actually leave the body or does it accumulate somewhere? Yeah. Well, you'd have to compare, you know, you'd have to compare autopsies and older folks from, you know, from areas that never had fluoride in their water versus those that did.

2:22:51And I am certain those studies have been done. Like I said, I'm just not that current on the water. To prevent tooth decay. I just think that sounds like the way I've described it, I said it's like putting sunscreen in the apples because some people get sunburned. Like that doesn't seem, that doesn't seem logical. You could just brush your fucking teeth. Like you don't need to have this weird neurotoxic chemical in our water, even in low supplies. Yeah. Would you put, are you fluoride in the toothpaste? No. I don't have fluoride in my toothpaste. I don't have cavities. I do. I've had a few cavities.

2:23:28Do you eat sugar? I love sugar. That's it. We found it. I don't hardly ever eat sugar. Yeah. I mean, a quangel alva cookie or something like that, but it's not a normal thing for me. I think it's diet. It's diet and it's brushing your teeth. Yeah. Well, and I think exercising your jaw too. Like you and chewing gum. Right. Is isilatol gum supposed to be really good for your jaw and good for your teeth? Yeah. Yeah. If you have a healthy jaw, healthy chin, I mean, you breathe easier. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. I don't know how they got started with the whole fluoride and the water thing, but it seems like a giant scam.

2:24:05Like big fluoride is still selling fluoride to all these different water departments, and they don't want to stop. That's the only thing that makes sense to me. It doesn't make any sense that people would be willing to potentially sacrifice their children's IQ. There's a direct correlation between high levels of calcium in the water or excuse me, high levels of fluoride in the water and low IQs. This has been established. Okay. So if that's true, that should be a fucking giant red flag for people. I mean, once you eliminate all the other environmental things that may be consistent with the people that have lower IQs and children, if you're just pointing only at fluoride, if this is one thing that varies, like this is a potential real problem.

2:24:47Like we know that let it gas, reduce people's IQ. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When they used to have let it gas, like people like me and you who grew up at a time with let it gas, you probably would be like, have a 10 point higher IQ. If you didn't grow up with let it gas, I mean, there's some sort of a percentage. I think it's a small percentage, but it's been measured. It's been measured that would find out like what percentage IQ, what percentage of a detriment is let it gas your IQ? Because they actually have done studies on people and like what happened once unleaded gas was introduced and how children's IQs went up.

2:25:31Oh, yeah, super happy. Yeah. Yeah. It was quite helpful. It's still in the ground in some places. Well, it's still a lot of pipes. Oh, really? Yeah. Lead pipes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. The whole flint thing. Oh, yeah. Oh, right. Right. Right. Yeah. These shoes lead pipes. How crazy? That you're drinking water. Well, the Romans use lead pipes. I know. Yeah. For their plumbing. You know, the Latin, your name for a lead is plum. You plum them. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. That's why the pipes were called plumbing. That's probably why the call seam got started. They're all fucked up on lead poisoning and just willing to throw their soldiers to the lions.

2:26:09Nearly half of US population exposed to dangerously high lead levels. So what is this say about IQ? Here goes exposure to car exhaust. Estimate childhood lead exposure has on average led to a reduction of 2 .6 IQ points per person. That's nuts. Research also found that non -Hispanic black people individuals with lower family income to poverty ratio and those with an older housing age were likely to have higher levels of lead in their blood. Well, probably because they lived in urban areas with this more car traffic. Right? Most likely. Yeah. If they're inhaling. If they're in cities. Lead particles.

2:26:48People that live in like very congested areas. Wow. 1973 environmental protection agency issued its first call for manufacturers to begin a gradual reduction in the amount of lead and gasoline. I bet they're going to look back at fluoride the same way we look back at lead and gas. Yeah. What the hell were we doing? It doesn't even make any sense. Oh, it's for your teeth. That's for your brush your fucking teeth. And if you use fluoride in your toothpaste, great. Just spit it out. Don't swallow that shit. Right? You don't swallow to my friend Eddie said it best. He said. If fluoride wasn't a problem, why would they want to sell you toothpaste without fluoride?

2:27:28And why is it say fluoride free in the toothpaste? Why do people gravitate towards fluoride free toothpaste? But because the studies like this where they found that it actually there is a correlation between IQ levels and fluoride. And at high levels, it's fucking dangerous for you. But there's all these people trying to dismiss it. Oh, stop. What's the big deal? There's nothing to this. Look at the amount of fluoride. What about accumulative? Do we know? Do you really know or why? Why? Why are you so willing to accept the fact that it's a good idea to throw neurotoxins in the water supply? Well, they may have just discovered it through serendipity.

2:28:10There may have been some... Well, they did discover it through that. There was an area in Texas, I believe, where they had high natural levels of fluoride in the water and there's a corresponding lower instance of cavities. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. I think it's Texas. Google, how did they start putting fluoride in the water? I'm pretty sure it's that. There's some healing springs of some sort. Yeah, some mineral rich fluoride water. I don't know. But either way, just brush your teeth. Stop eating so much sweets and brush your teeth. Both those things are a good idea. Fluoride in the water?

2:28:46Not a good idea. If you want to sell fluoride and tell people to add it to their water, fine. But put it in the water, that's crazy. That seems crazy. Yeah, well, I mean, as a dentist or when I was a small kid, we used to get these fluoride treatments. Yeah. Yeah, with this blue gun, kind of gel that they would put it in a splint, you put it on your upper and lower teeth for like a five minutes or whatnot. Yeah, kill those bad germs. A fluoride treatment. Well, yeah, I think it is. Low recuriosity. Yeah, you're a lawyer out here, which is maybe not a bad idea. We got a wonder with the thing you were talking about before about some people just don't have imagination, which is really crazy to think that some people are just, they just got a bad hand.

2:29:39Well, they can't make stuff up. Well, they must be quite practical, right? I mean, what you see is what you get. There's no abstracting. That's very charitable. It might just be dull. They might be dull -minded. I mean, there's a certain percentage of our population than as an IQ below 85. I think, what is it like 15 % or something like that? Was it higher than that? We were talking about it the other day, but I don't think we ever researched the actual number. But it's significant enough where you're like, whoa, you're running around the world with an 85 IQ. It's hard. Well, you kind of wonder about the IQ test, right?

2:30:16I mean, it was what was it called the Stanford Benet test. It was developed way long ago, may not really measure all aspects of intelligence. So that's true. It may be somewhere within 85 point IQ is smart in other ways, like emotionally intelligent, for example. Okay. So with 70 IQ, you have like 2 % to point something percent of the people. When you get to 85, you have 13 .6%. So 13 .6 % have an IQ at 85 or below. That's a lot. 34 % is 100 to 85. But you have to also factor in education, right? Like to take an IQ test, you have to be able to understand concepts. You have to be able to solve problems.

2:31:12And you most likely would have to have been exposed to many problems when you were younger, if you don't understand how these work. And some people have had a very poor education. And they might be intelligent. They might be very emotionally intelligent. Right. Right. Yeah. That was what I was thinking is that, yeah, it would be a different scale of intelligence. Then you purely cognitive. Right. Yeah. Well, that's one of the interesting elements about genetic engineering of the humans. There is a big article in something I was reading. Oh, the ecstatic integration. It's a newsletter put out by Jules Evans, a friend.

2:31:51And he dove into genetic engineering of a fetuses. Like you can have a 3DNA fetus or embryo. Like the mom, the dad, and some super smart person or super on a athletic person. So you could do like a chimera almost in the human situation. Well, that's probably already happened. Yeah, it is happening offshore. Yeah. Yeah. That was the gist of China's probably creating a race of super people. Well, the first genetic engineering of the fetus, I'm encouraging China. It was a fellow working to develop HIV. That's what he says. Yeah. But it accidentally made them higher IQ. Accidentally. Yeah. Well, so that guy's back at work.

2:32:46Yeah. You went to jail for a little bit. Yeah. He's got a big lab. Lots of funding. It's kind of weird. It seems like they kind of made him escape coat a little bit, which they tend to do over there. Well, you think that in a lot of ways that he would be celebrated. Like, you know, for example, the Scottish scientists that, you know, cloned that sheep. Yeah. Yeah. They were heroes. Sure. Yeah. But I think we think very differently about it when it's being done with people. We get super nervous, especially if you're going to be the first person that does it. There's going to be a lot of outrage.

2:33:18And I think some of that outrage is going to be by people that wish they did it first. So they're going to be pretending that this is horrible that you've done this. All right. They were scooped. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if there is that kind of reaction with the first heart transplant or the first kidney transplant. If the originators of the methodology were demonized because you know, they were like putting somebody else's heart in your place. It has to be right, especially well, we're lucky that it was done the 20th century. Imagine if it had been done in the 18th century, the 16th century. You know, if you in the 1500s said, okay, I know how to save you.

2:33:54This guy just got run over by a wagon. I'm going to take his heart out. I'm going to cut you open, put his heart in you. Like what? Right. And that would have even worked because your body would have rejected it back then because they didn't have the proper drugs that allowed people to accept other people's organs and suppress your immune system. So your immune system doesn't reject the organ. Yeah. I never was in a heart transplant operating theater. You know, once in an emergency room, actually, I was able to crack somebody's chest open and work on their heart. You kind of give it the massage.

2:34:32Well, the person was quite sick. He was dying. And we tried everything. You know, like everything. You know, like we used on a defibrillator. We put some epinephrine in a big syringe, put it through his chest into his heart, didn't help. And you know, the last thing that we could do was do open heart massage. Yeah, open chest massage. Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. And you know, like, you know, there are a bunch of like a number of students around and we each took turns, you know, like squeezing it and feel it was pretty. Did the guy last after that? No, no. You know, by the time you open up somebody's chest and start squeezing their heart with your hands, yeah, it's kind of.

2:35:18So did he make it through that day or how long did he live for? No, he, you know, I mean, never woke up. Oh, Jesus. Medical training is a pretty interesting experience. You know, the, you know, the kinds of things that you learn to do to the human body. And the kinds of things that people let you do to them because you're a physician. It's a very interesting development of a role. You know, like, for example, when we first started working in the hospitals, you know, there's a dress code. You know, this was 1976 or so. And, you know, like, you know, there were lots of hippies in my class and the, and you know, the dress code was to wear a tie.

2:36:00And, you know, the hippies were saying, I'll forget ties. And, you know, the teacher said, think what your mother would want to see her doctor wearing. And everybody got all kind of guilt ridden it. Oh, yeah, okay, our mom would like to see us wear a tie. Yeah, you know, so you work into a role. You're like, you know, how you look and how you talk and how you carry yourself. Yeah, it's a very interesting. You know, conditioning, social conditioning, any of an extreme position of authority. Yeah, I mean, you could ask people, you know, to do things that, you know, that nobody else would ask them and that they wouldn't even entertain if anybody else had asked them.

2:36:43Yeah, it's a very privileged position. It's very cool if you know what you're doing. Oh, yeah. And you don't let it go to your head, but yeah, it's a unique apprenticeship. Yeah, and they can do some wild things today. I mean, I'm living proof of it. I have three knee operations. Two knee reconstructions. Yeah, I was, well, a couple of years ago when I was out here for the first time, you were having some bleeding into your knees, I remember. Um, bleeding, swelling, like swelling, some some bats falling at least. Yeah, you know, maybe they withdrew some, you know, some blood from that, you know.

2:37:21Oh, you know what it was probably I had probably had what's called regene. So regene is when they take your blood out and it's like platelet rich plasma, but they spin it in this centrifuge and it creates this like a yellow liquid, which is like a super potent anti -inflammatory. And then they had injected it into my knees. Okay. Yeah, it's it really helps heal things. I had it done in my back. I had it done in my knees. It's amazing stuff. Yeah, so you've gotten a bunch of knee surgery. Yes. Yeah. My knees are pretty beat up. My back's pretty beat up. My knees are pretty beat up. That's from your martial arts.

2:37:57Yeah. Yeah. Most of it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, do you have any replacement? No, I don't need that. No, it's not that bad. Yeah. Not new is bad. But quite a few people I know have one. My friend Matt got one. He's a former UFC welterweight champion, Matt Sarah. He's younger than me. He has a knee replacement. My friend Michael Bisping. He was a former UFC middleweight champion. He has both of his knees replaced. His two artificial knees. Yeah. And they're doing okay with their new knees. Yeah. I mean, better. Right. Yeah. Like he was in severe. They're in severe pain to the point where they just couldn't take it anymore.

2:38:28And they can do some pretty amazing things with resurfacing of the knees now. They, you know, these titanium heads. Have you seen them? Yeah. Pretty incredible. Yeah. They lock off the end of your knee, screw in this new one. And it just functions. Uh -huh. My feeling the fear I have though, my fear is that it's only good for like 20 years or so. And then what do you got to do? You got to go back in there and lock off it again and put a new one in. Yeah. Well, they may have some new development. That's what you would hope so. Yeah. You would hope so. But I mean, you're banking on that. You're like essentially making a bet that, okay, you can chop off the end of my knee.

2:39:06And in 20 years, they're going to have some new thing. The thing that would give me pause today. And I'm again, I'm not giving medical advice. But if today, biologics are coming so far that they're able to regenerate both meniscus tissue. And also cartilage. So they can do that now. And there was a study in Australia where they did that recently. And I think there's something else going on somewhere in the United States where they're showing promise in that regard. So I think if people could just hang in there for a little longer, according to my friend, Brigham, who owns ways to well, which is a stem cell clinic out here.

2:39:47He is convinced that these kind of like super invasive surgeries are going to be a thing at the past. They're going to be able to regrow tissue and fix like literally fix knee problems, back problems, things along those lines. Neck problems. Neck problems. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they're already doing a lot of that in Mexico. Where there's places like the CPI, the cellular performance institute. I had a friend of mine, Shane Dorian. He's a big wave surfer. You know, again, imagine a pounding thing in your back and crushed by a 50 foot wave, you know. And he had it done to his spine where they go into your discs and they inject stem cells into each individual disc.

2:40:30They actually put you under. And you're supposed to like be, you know, real relax for the next like six weeks, no heavy exercise at all. You just kind of go walking. And after a while, it starts to kick in and now he has no back pain anymore. Yeah, is he back surfing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, stem cells, well, you know, psychedelics affect the, you know, formation of stem cells into new neurons that's called neurogenesis. Yeah. So still sobbing in particular, right? Still a sobbing ketamine DMT. Doesn't lines main do that as well, though? Like non psychoactive mushrooms? I don't know. See if lines main creates neurogenesis.

2:41:11I think it does. Yeah, Paul Stammett would know. I think that's one of the things that Paul Stammett's talked about was doing it in a stack. Like doing psilocybin along with, yeah, now exactly what it was. Lines main mushrooms can promote neurogenesis and enhance memory. Yeah. I take that stuff. I take lines main all the time. And I was wonder how shit would my memory be if I didn't take it? Yeah. When I was recovering, I spoke to Paul and said, help me. I need help. And he said lines main. He gave me that giant mushroom, that thing on the desk over there. That's what that is. That big log looking thing.

2:41:48Oh, that's a mushroom. That's a mushroom. That's a huge one. I was wondering what that was. Yeah, that's a mushroom. That's Paul Stammett's brought me in mushroom. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. His fascinating character. Yeah, I like Paul. Great guy. Yeah. Really great guy. I think he just got something replaced. Like a hip, a hip or a knee. Yeah. Something on those lines. Well, you know, my friends that have had knee replacements, they're out skiing, they're being golf. Yeah. They've really had a miraculous turnaround. Yeah. Yeah, you can do amazing things now. It's incredible. I just think that we're real close to not needing a fake one.

2:42:24Real close to be able to generate new ones. Well, you know, the organ I would like to replace it my eyes. I've been like as a kid. I've been near sighted and near sighted and more near sighted. So I would love to have artificial eyes. If they worked out. Well, that's what we were talking about earlier that they're going to be able to do that someday. Yeah. Yeah. I'd be happy with that. I might wait around as long as I can to get some like I can see pretty well. If it's if the environment is brightly lit. You know, but you know, but if it gets the dark or dim, it's it becomes difficult. Dude, you're going to be able to see through walls.

2:42:58See if you can find that article about potential because there's not it's not just neural link. There's a few other competing companies that are doing very similar things. And one of them are very confident. They're going to be able to restore sight in how many years. I don't know. And then on top of that, the possibility is enhanced vision. And that's what we're talking about like being able to, you know, see like warm things like in blind sight. Blind sight device being developed to restore vision and people have lost their sight. No, there was one that was saying you're going to be able to have infrared night vision.

2:43:39A bunch of different possibilities on top of the fact they're going to be able to restore sight that eventually I don't know how you Google this that wasn't just restoring memory or excuse me restoring vision, but enhanced vision. And then it's going to be far. I think they're promising vision far greater than what human beings are personally capable of. Blind sight enables super human vision beyond natural limits like infrared becomes cognitive process, not just biological. That's what blind sight is. Okay, so that is the same new early thing. And then on top of that, you're going to be able to like zoom out.

2:44:14So you know, like you ever take like a Samsung phone to have a hundred X zoom. And you can just zoom in on something like way in the distance like wow, that's crazy. Really zoom in on stuff. You're going to be able to do that with your eyeballs. Yeah. Feature enhancement too. Yeah, yeah, you can be able to see people look way better than they really look. Just put a filter on everybody's beautiful. Yeah, so there it is. Musk explained the blind sight device for neural link will enable even those who have lost both eyes and their optic nerve to see provided the visual cortex is intact. It will leave them to enable those who have been blind from birth to see for the first time.

2:44:53Here's the part that truly expands the horizons of what we think visions can be at first. The vision will be low resolution like a tarry graphics, but eventually it has the potential to be better than natural vision. And enable you to see an infrared ultra violent or even radar wavelengths. But like Jordi LaForge, who's Jordi LaForge? Star Trek. Oh. Well, I mean, that'd be a lot of information, wouldn't it? Yeah, yeah. So what would you do with it all? Depends on what you try to do, you know. I guess if you try to find people hiding in the woods, you can be able to see them. Yeah, or become a fault or even become a philosopher.

2:45:30I mean, with those enhanced processes, I mean, you could kind of, you know, direct it in any way that you'd like. Do you think that enhancing the human body like this is what the future of humanity holds? I think it's a stage we'll go through. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure how far along it'll take us. It may just end in our demise. But I think it's a stage we'll, that we obviously are passing into now. Some people think that's the mark of the beast from the Bible. You know, the people who get the chip, the mark of the beast isn't that on the forehead? I mean, that's the best spot for it. It's 666 is the mark of the beast.

2:46:16Right. Yeah. But isn't that like open to interpretation? Like what is it saying that you've read the original one? What is the mark of the beast in the Hebrew Bible, ancient? Yeah. Yeah. That's the Christian Bible. That's the book of Revelation. That's the New Testament, which I have not read amazingly enough. How come? Well, I'm pretty busy. You're in ancient Hebrew. Yeah. Yeah. I have enough to study as the Hebrew Bible. Yeah.

2:46:46It's, I mean, if you were going to prophesy about the end of humanity, you'd probably prophesy about someone accepting some sort of a chip in their brain and then everybody being forced to do it, some matrix type situation. I could see why people wouldn't see that this, and it might be just the inevitable transition from biological to cyborg that we're probably going to have to go through anyway. Well, the end of the world will, you know, at least according to certain traditions, on as Harold did by the Antichrist. And the Antichrist is the Master of the Lie. So I think, you know, it's interesting to kind of use that perspective as a way of seeing, you know, where the future on this heading.

2:47:36So the Antichrist is Mass Media? It's the Master of the Lie.

2:47:49Yeah. So all kinds of crazy things that we do, we take over foreign governments and install our own puppet dictators and have everybody convinced it's a good thing. Well, the concept of, I'm of the Antichrist is very old, you know, 2000 years. You're like, you have Christ, you've got the Antichrist. So, you know, there's a God and there's a, you know, Demi Urge. Yeah. So it's a, it's a notion that has carried a lot of weight for a long time. Yeah. Yeah. So you think that the media is the Antichrist? Well, I think, or, you know, could be seen as, well, you could see corporations as being in sort of a demonic state.

2:48:31So if you have an obligation to your shareholders to consistently provide higher and higher profits every quarter, and in order to do that, you have to do things that will cost people lives and destroy people's lives. Like, for instance, the Sackler family that got everybody hooked on opioids. Is that not demonic? That seems very demonic. And if I was under the throws of its spell, if I had gotten caught up in opioids, it would be very similar to being possessed by demons, having your life ruined by devils. Very similar, at least in result, right? Especially if you wind up committing crimes because you want to get your drugs, you wind up in jail, your life is over, maybe you destroyed other people's lives.

2:49:19It's very demonic in that way and in like in the result, in the end result, the end result is evil. Well, you look at the opium wars in China. The British imported opium and there was a huge opium addiction problem in China. And yeah, it was seen as a demonic scourge, like a diabolical affliction. And in its result, it is demonic. It's just we're hung up on pitch fork, fork tail, horns, demon. But in action, it's clearly demonstratably demonic. Well, demonic in what way? Okay, if you can lie about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction and you can justify an invasion of Iraq based on these clear lies, and then through that invasion, 500 ,000 children starved to death because of embargoes, countless people are killed that didn't have to be killed, loss of at least a million lives, over the course of the entire war, and then the starving people afterwards.

2:50:33Well, that's demonic. Is that for those people? Well, does that mean that you believe in the devil or Satan? I don't know what I believe in and what I don't believe in because I haven't experienced it. Maybe if I experience Satan, I'd be like, well, Satan's real. But you're allowed to believe in God, but as soon as you start saying you believe in the devil, people look at you sideways. You could be the president and you can say, God bless our troops. Nobody believes that's an eye. But if you say the problem with America is the devil, and we will find the devil and we will root him out of our world, and that's what we're going to spend all your tax dollars on now.

2:51:12Yeah, I mean, like you could... I think good and evil are real things. You can pray for God to bless their troops, and you can pray for protection from Satan's influence on the troops if you were able to put the two like on the level. By the soon as you bring up Satan publicly, you lose all the secular people. Right? You can... you can... you could praise God and people go out and send the fucking steps, you know, pledge of allegiance is normal. Whatever, yeah. But it wasn't even until, what was it like Teddy Roosevelt? Like, who put pledge of allegiance in? It was when we were battling the communists, and that's when God got put into the pledge allegiance.

2:51:55Well, you believe in good and evil. Like, I think what occurs is the more people do good, the stronger the force of good is, and the more that do evil, the stronger, you know, the force of evil is. And then you have the Holocaust. Well, you know, how do you perceive that force? Is it just energy, or do you anthropomorphize it into like a being that you can recognize and think about? Right. But there's kind of no denying, at least from a recognizable... If you had to like look, how do you quantify it? How do you measure it? There's no denying that evil takes place, you know? Like, you could come up with any number of massacres throughout history.

2:52:44And you say that's an evil act. Oh, there's no question. Right. Right. So evil is a thing that's real. If there's good, there's evil. Right. Yeah. And then there have been many, many things that people have done. You're like, wow, good exists in the world. There is still good. So we know both those things are real things. We just don't know what's the root of them all. And is, are there really angels and demons? Or are those the scapegoats? For this bizarre dance of good and evil that just exists in the world? Well, if you know, if it weren't for Adam and Eve eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, there wouldn't be any perception of good and evil.

2:53:25It just be true or false. Which is the reason that Adam and Eve were expelled from the garden. Because in the beginning, they were living in a world of either truth or falsehood. Right. And after eating the fruit of the difference between good and evil, they became opinionated. Oh, that's good. I like it. That's bad. I don't like it. But the issue of true or false got you became muddled. Yeah. And they no longer were fit inhabitants of the garden of Eden of paradise. What's your take on Lilith? Well, yeah, Lilith. Well, there's no mention of her in the Bible per se, but there's a lot of mention of her in the rabbinic literature that sprung up after the Bible.

2:54:14Yeah. Yeah. The story is that I think after King killed Abel, you know, the Adam... No, no, it was at that after that. No, I think it was after Adam and Eve were expelled from the garden, you know, that they stopped having sex. So Adam, you know, then was just sleeping with Lilith and they spawned innumerable demons as a result of their relationship. Yeah. And after a while Adam and Eve reconciled and they got the things together again. Yeah. Yeah. But Lilith plays a role in the understanding of evil in the world, like it's the result of the spawn of Lilith. What do you think Lilith was originally if it was a thing?

2:55:01Yeah. I don't know. Well, that's called midrush. It's the explanation of the Bible by the rabbis. You know, so it was called extrabiblical. Yeah. And I've only looked into extrabiblical stuff to a certain extent. What's the source of that stuff? The imagination. And I think you have the surrounding environment in society, culture influenced by the Greeks, the Sumerians, the Acadians, the Hittites. Yeah. There's a lot of accumulation of other cultures onto interpreting the stories that occur in the text, one of fanciful things. And entertaining things like, for example Lilith is the source of the demonic entities out there.

2:55:53Yeah. I found out about Lilith like six months ago. Oh, really? Yeah. I never even heard about it. Do you remember when we found out about Lilith? Somebody brought it up on a show, right? Yeah. Who brought it up? I'm wondering. I don't remember. But I was like, what? Who's Lilith? Yeah. Was it Jordan Peterson? It could have been. Yeah. Very possible. Because he's a keen student of the Bible. Yeah. Very possible. I do not remember though. But I remember thinking like, wow. And then the original story. So when you're talking about the biblical translations of the Adam and Eve story that we're all accustomed to, it's all the watered down sort of a strange translated version of the ancient Hebrew.

2:56:30But you've read the actual ancient Hebrew version of it. What did you get out of it? Like, what did you? Well, you know, most of the translations of the Hebrew Bible are quite good. Like, you know, the King James version. It's very accurate. Yeah. It's a bit, you know, stilted. Is anything missing in the translation from when you read it in ancient Hebrew? Or do you think it's pretty clear? It's fairly one -to -one correspondence between the Hebrew words and the English translation. Certain things are interpreted through a Christian lens because the Christians wrote the King James Bible translation.

2:57:05Yeah. But the words and the grammar and the narratives, you know, they're pretty much accurate. They spent a lot of time working on pain, staking translations. So, you know, there was a responsibility to do it accurately. Imagine that story. Like, trying to like pass that one down for a thousand years. Yeah. Well, I guess. So there was only two people. And then there was an apple. Right. And a snake talked Eve into eating that apple and everything got fucked. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very strange story. It's a very strange story. What do you think it really was all about? I think there were two people named Adam and Eve for real.

2:57:49As if they were real. What do you mean by that? Well, if you imagine that there was an Adam and Eve and you visualize the garden they were in and the snake and their interactions, you know, there you have it. So you think the biblical interpretation is a literal recalling of actual events that took place? No. No. I don't think that. Well, you know, it's like if you smoke DMT and you enter into this world, it's true. It's overwhelmingly convincing. It's got its own laws. It's own system. You know, things are, you know, things are regular. Like certain things happen. Certain interactions take place.

2:58:33Yeah. And you're there. You're convinced it's real and you interact with it to the best of your ability. So I think, you know, that's the case with the narratives in the text. It's not. It isn't a matter of interpreting what they mean as much as understanding what happened. Boy, that's obscure. So it's not interpreting what they mean, but understanding what happened. Yeah. You know, like, like, you know, what did the snake say to Eve? So a snake really talked to Eve though. It was as if a snake talked to you. As if. Yeah. So perhaps a psychedelic experience, perhaps an altered state of consciousness.

2:59:15No, I think it was a case of a woman standing near a tree and a snake coming up to her and saying certain things and they have a conversation. For real, for real. Well, as if it were real. Well, you know, the stories have been told so many times. Right. That's the problem. And, you know, they, they seem. Well, if you seem like a blame in everything on Eve too, which is like a little suspect. No, no, the one who got punished without even having a chance to explain himself was the snake. And you know, so God asks Adam what happened and he asks Eve what happened and he just, you know, lays it on the snake.

2:59:56Right. Yeah. And the snake's like, I didn't tell her anything. I can't even talk. Well, this lady wanted to eat that apple. She blamed me. Well, back then, snakes could talk. Or in that world, snakes talk. House. Well, you know, they were the wisest of all the animals in the garden. So, you know, they could speak. Right. But you speak of these things as if like we're talking about when you go to the zoo, the monkeys swing from the vines, this normal snakes talk. Well, it's a bit of a paradox. Yeah. You're like, if, if, let me ask you this. So if you treat those stories as if they were real, you're opening yourself up to this universe of Adam and Eve were in the garden, then they had cane and able.

3:00:48And then you can't kill, then you can't had children and his children be got the 70 nations and then there was a flood because mankind was bad. You know, and his family survived. They all spoke one language afterwards. There was on a tower. You know, there was Nimrod. There was Abraham. There was Isaac and Jacob. You know, so it's this world, which seems to be quite coherent, quite consistent at all. You know, ties together. There's quite consistent from book to book, you know, from narrative to narrative. You know, it is a different way of looking at the Bible. It isn't dogma like you have to do this or you have to do that.

3:01:28Or it isn't like a younging an archetype or a psychodynamic, you know, wish fulfillment. It's this world that, you know, that is articulated, spelled out in a very ancient, very influential text. So is it also possible that something completely different took place with that over time and over a oral tradition of who knows how many hundreds of years before they actually wrote it down and then writing it down, you're getting a version of the actual event that's very different than what really took place. But you think about it like the version in the scripture. And if you think about it in the version of scripture, are you are you thinking about it like as if this was an event as recorded or you thinking this is a represent representation of an archetype or some sort of moment in human history that they're trying to recollect and pass down.

3:02:35Well, if you consider, yeah, kind of, yeah, well, if you consider the text to be prophetically received, your prophecy is communication between the divine and man. And the text was prophetically received. I'm in fact, you know, a filo of Alexandria, you know, one of your parents, McKenna's heroes, used to say, you know, the most accurate historians were the prophets. You know, because they heard it, you know, directly, you know, from the initiator of the event, the witness of the event, the one who could understand the event in the huge context. You know, so it's a prophetically received text, which means it contains information received from a spiritual sort of level, which you would think is a universal field of sorts.

3:03:28How much of you ever paid attention if at all to any of that ancient Sumerian stuff like the Anunnaki and some, some, yeah, I watched this really great documentary a few years back. Yeah, you know, but I, you know, but you know, but I wouldn't consider myself as knowing much about it. Right. That to me is one of the weirder origin stories. Yeah, yeah. So what is that origin story? Am I, am I recall it quite the fascinated fact on, you know, not the details. Well, there's very, there's multiple versions of it. First of all, the story of the, the fantastic story is told by Zechariah Sitchin. So Zechariah Sitchin, who wrote the 12th planet and he wrote several other books.

3:04:19He was a biblical scholar in a linguist and he spent a lot of time studying the ancient Sumerian text, the cuneiform. And what he believes is that it tells a story of an ancient relationship between a race of beings on a far distant planet that's in an elliptical orbit. And it comes near Earth every 3 ,600 years and that they had engineered human beings out of lower primates. They had like accelerated our evolution and that all of what we know about the cosmos, all of what we know about, you know, they have these detailed, I don't see the ancient tablets that have a detailed map of the solar system from 6000 years ago.

3:05:09The sun and the center and all the moon and they have these really enormous beings and these enormous beings were supposed to be these things called the Anunnaki. And the literal translation is those from heaven to earth came. It's one of the weirder, like if you love a great science fiction version of the origin story of humans, it's the most fun one. Yeah, it brings to mind the sons of God, the Banei Elohim, which occurred in the story of the flood and Noah. The Nephilim too. Yeah, the Nephilim, the Refaim, they were huge, they were giants, the men of renown. Yeah, and they intermarried or they had sex with the daughters of man and from them came a race.

3:06:00Yeah, so that story is interpreted or perceived through the lens of the Hebrew Bible too. Really? Yeah, well that is a story in the text. Before the flood is the Banei Elohim come down to earth, they have intercourse with the daughters of man and out of those relationships comes this race of giants. That's the most fun one. Yeah, isn't it? Well, they all got swept away in the flood. Yeah, so that's an interesting turn of events. Well, if you interpret the flood as the younger drives impact theory, which created the flood, it lines up. Right, that does line up. Yeah, it lines up time wise, it lines up with how it would go down.

3:06:54Yeah, just no evidence of giants. That's the only thing we're missing. If they found some giants? Well, in the meantime, you can assume that the giants were real and understand their origin, what they were like, what they did, why they did it, what the results were. Yeah, the bizarre thing is they've isolated this area outside of the Kuiper Belt where they believe there's a large planetary body that might be multiple times larger than earth that exists out there. Right where you would imagine that this thing is, if there really is some sort of a planet that comes close to us with these super advanced beings.

3:07:33Yeah, I think I've heard of that actually. Yeah, it gets fun. Those get fun. Those I put away rational thought just to pay attention to that stuff. Well, and if it were true, you know, then what? Well, if it were true, that sort of is what everyone's seeing when they're seeing UFOs and UAPs. They're probably visiting or they probably are always here. They're probably watching to make sure we don't blow ourselves up and probably assisting us on our journey of evolving past this primitive, violent state that we currently find ourselves in. One would hope. Yeah, yeah, or they could be just doing the opposite that they may be stirring up trouble.

3:08:22Maybe they realize that people need trouble in order to get things done in order to join the Galactic Federation. We have to figure out a way to get off the planet. The best way to get off the planet is to develop superior weapons. Yeah, you know, kind of withdraw from the brink of the precipice. Right. Yeah, that's the story of humanity basically, isn't it? Yeah, it is. Well, that's what's interesting about origin stories, right? And that's what's interesting about the biblical texts is that there are these stories about things that have gone horribly wrong and influences different things that happened to humanity and different cataclyzms and disasters.

3:09:00And these stories are shared through different cultures, which is really interesting. Like in the epic of Gilgamesh, there's a flood story. It's real similar. Yeah, yeah, most of the, if most of the Middle East has got a flood story and origin story. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it just makes you wonder. Well, it makes you wonder if it's true. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, that's why I think like you're studying one particular tradition in great detail can kind of help you kind of resonate with ones that are more universal. Yeah. Well, that one is so common, which is really interesting when you see the, like the younger drives impact theory evidence, like, of course, 11 ,000 plus years ago.

3:09:52This is probably what would happen. And the story gets passed around forever and ever and ever and ever and sort of remembers it. Yeah, well, do you like Graham's documentaries? Yeah, I do. Yeah, they Netflix ones. They're fascinating. Yeah, I don't like all the anger that comes out of it. All the people that get mad at him and disparaging remarks and how some archaeologists are like severely overreacted to it as if it's some horrific threat. But it's fascinating. Just the raw data about the size of these stones, their alignment with constellations, the fact that these things have been there for at the very, at least 4 ,500 years.

3:10:33Some of them. And some of them even further than that when you get to, like, go back to the tap Bay. Like, to me, it's just incredible to imagine people living 11 ,000 years ago. Like, what is life like? What is that experience like? What is it like talking to people? Yeah. Well, those footprints around, you know, white sands are super cool. Yeah, that's not far from where I live. That's 22 ,000 years. Yeah, kids running around in the mud. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah, it's very interesting. Altered States. This is your book. New book came out. Well, it's going to be coming out tomorrow. Oh, and I took your advice and I narrated the honest.

3:11:10Yes. Yeah, beautiful. Yeah, that's so happy when people do that. That came out there. December 10th. My altered States. And it is going to be available everywhere. Yeah. I'm in your traditions. Yeah, publishes it. Yeah, it's on all the usual resources. And you can go to rickstrospin .com. And you can see this and everything else. Oh, and you can pre -order it. You can order it for me. I won't scribe it and I will sign it. Oh, beautiful. Oh, that's awesome. That's very cool. That's only 20 bucks. All right, man. Yeah, the book is illustrated as well. Yeah, there's some pretty funny stories in there.

3:11:48And each of them has got at least one illustration. Oh, cool. Yeah. Oh, look at that. Who drew it? A friend from Birmingham, Alabama named Marley Chappell. That's crazy. That's crazy. There's some... Well, there's one called steak on acid. You ever eat steak on acid? No, I have not. Yeah. This is great. Oh, these are cool drawings. They're great drawings. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. Rick, thank you so much. It's always great to see you. Thanks, Joe. I'm here to enjoy it. It was a lot of fun. All right. Okay. Goodbye. Bye, everybody.

3:12:30Bye.

From the publisher

Rick Strassman is a Clinical Associate Professor of Psychiatry at the University of New Mexico School of Medicine. His new book, "My Altered States: A Doctor's Extraordinary Account of Trauma, Psychedelics, and Spiritual Growth," is available now.

www.rickstrassman.com
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