#2242 - Bert Sorin

27:21She's like, well, come and come and sign the book. And you look in the book is like Bill Kazmeier was here. So and so he's like, oh my gosh, like the greatest strongman in the world had come as a pilgrimage to lift this stone. And then they signed the book and you're like, so weird. This is awesome. And then across the street. There it is. Yeah, there it is. And then I do say that word. We call it the inverse stone. In the called. In the called stone. Yeah, it seems like it's almost been like honed. Well, that doesn't it seem like it was polished to the spot. Yeah, that one's outside. Oh, that one actually has numbers.

27:54Yeah, that's the one I lifted. It says six 265 pounds and what it says. Yeah. And it's so we lifted it. And then actually, so what happened after back in the 80s when Kazmeier was coming on the scene, you know, Bill Kazmeier obviously, a world strongest man, kind of started the stage. He allegedly picked it up, you know, was the man thing. If you could pick up, he picked up and carried it across the street and belly it up to the bar and laid it onto the bar. And that's fierce. I would be mad if that was my bar. Right. He chipped the crap out of the bar. It did. I was like, yeah, that's where Bill chipped at this bad ass.

28:24That's not his story. I like that stuff. Right. So we traveled all around, lift all the stones. It was cool. But anyway, a thrower is a person who decides to do a sport that doesn't pay a lot. No, I'm just kidding. But it's a shop put discus hammer or javelin. It was all those original Olympic sports that were all weapons. And so I, that'd be a good sport if you were a trans woman. Oh, you would, oh, you would dominate. Oh, if I, the regular chicks wouldn't have a chance. Oh, I'm at 48 years old. I could still throw the living crap out of a woman's implement if I wanted to. It'd been great, but yeah, I was a part of the track and field.

29:00I got into it in college, kind of a weird force, gump like storing it, change the course of my life. Have you done a lift run shoot yet with cam? I haven't done it with cam. No, I've, we played around and done some stuff like that at my farm, you know, during your career. You should do his, his podcast, the lift run shoot show. That'd be great. It makes you carry a rock up the fucking mountain. I went up Pizca with him. I haven't carried the rock and, uh, but I'm sure you've done such a good. Like the cam rock. I haven't done Pizca. I'm not doing that. Fuck out of here. That was rough. Yeah, that was rough.

29:30I started running. I'm not a big cardio guy. Not interested in going anywhere with that guy's running. Dude, he is, he is as advertised as a badass. Like he is legit legit. He's one of my best friends. He's a complete psychopath. We did, we're, we all got running and then he kind of left me and then like he got to the top and then did his dance and then he came back down and like, Hey man. And then it was, it was very remarkable. Like he goes, all right, why do I do this all the time? He goes, if we crested this corner right now and you saw the biggest pull of your life at 70 yards, could you make this shot?

30:03And I'm like, bro, I'm looking on my ear hole right now. Like I'm screwed. Yes, that's why I do this every day. I'm like, I'm tracking. He's also addicted to exercise. He's addicted to cardio. Yeah, I think he got so much. A state of mind that a lot of those distance runners get in that they get really, really addicted to. And there's a runner's high. Like that runner's experience. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, long cardio sessions. Yeah. I never have. I've tried it. And then I just either get bored or mad at cardio. Then I go and lift weights and thrusts. You've got like that power strength throwing background.

30:37You know, it's like, it doesn't really benefit you to be really into cardio. Yeah. It actually probably would diminish some of your strength. Like heavily. Yeah, Greg Glassman back in 2007, when I was throwing Highland games, he was like, well, you have to do cardio or do CrossFit. And I was like, why? And he was like, no, it'll help your throwing. I go, oh, the CrossFit guy. Yeah, yeah. Doesn't look like he works out at all. That's the one. Yeah. I'm not taking advice from you, buddy. Well, I was sitting there. I was like, I'm 265 pounds. He's like, you should do CrossFit. And I'm like, I'm trying to be the best thrower in the world.

31:06And that has nothing to do with any of this other stuff. Yeah, I have a golden rule when it comes to taking advice. I don't take advice from anybody looks like shit. That sounds, that sounded vice. If you look like shit, I'm not taking advice. I know he had like some physical problems, right? Yeah. Something's wrong with him or something. But the bottom line is unknown and unknowable was not my sport. My sport was extremely known, extremely knowable. I know the... This episode is brought to you by Buffalo Trace Distillery. Actually have some Buffalo Trace cigars here they just sent me. One of the world's most award -winning distilleries that's been making whiskey the same way for more than 200 years made as a tribute to the rugged, free spirited pioneers who blaze their own trail to new frontiers.

31:54It embodies the perfectly untamed spirit of independence. It defines what an award -winning bourbon should be. Age nearly twice as long as competitors in new, charred, white oak barrels and bottled at 90 proof, Buffalo Trace is the perfect bourbon to be enjoyed in any way, anywhere. And the taste, it's damn good. It's bold and sophisticated yet incredibly smooth, finishing long and deep. It's authentically American representing uncompromising quality for the rugged, the powerful and the passionate. Tap the banner to learn more or visit buffalotracedistillery .com. That's buffalotracedistillery .com.

32:41Distilled, aged and bottled by Buffalo Trace Distillery, 90 proof, Franklin County, Kentucky, Buffalo Trace, American, family -owned, independent and perfectly untamed. Olympic trials are on this day and I need to show up really really far. And also, if you want to be a power lifter or if you want to do some just completely power -focused exercise, it does not benefit you to spend time getting in extreme cardiovascular shape. Like you do need to do what the kind of running that Cam does. Yeah, and it's not even not beneficial as detrimental. Right. I mean, we would joke like why run when you could walk, why walk when you could sit down and why sit down when you could lay down.

33:23Like as throwers, that's what we would do. And we would lay down every chance, and eat every chance you get. And they're like, I'm gonna stand up and do something really hard and fast for three seconds. Right. And I'm gonna go rest for a while. Yeah. Call me when I'm back up. Yeah, I mean, just fun. Different things have different requirements. But if you want to be a mountain elk hunter, what he does is very beneficial. I just can't run. I have a bad left knee that's really bothered me the last few years. And I just twisted it again this September. Yeah, you're saying you're sciatic. I was a little tweaked.

33:54That was another problem. That was from an overuse of, no, it's just being stupid. That's overuse of archery. So I was, yeah, because you know, I have two bows. I have a bow that's 84 pounds and a bow is 90 pounds. So I'm pulling these 90 pound bows 100 times a day. Are you sure that many times a day? Oh, yeah. Good for you. Oh, yeah. Oh, you have to. It for that moment, when like a fucking giant bull walks in between the trees and you have a 70 yard shot, you have to 100 % be confident that you can make that shot. And so I'm shooting at 84 yards over and over and over and over and I'm obsessive, but the problem was, I developed like 10 to 9 is my lower back.

34:42And so it's overuse from the stabilizing, from like holding yourself. So it's the polling. Well, I'm sure that's it, but it's also holding it right there in that position. And it's all in my right lower back, but it's much, much better now. I started doing this thing called new fit. Okay, talked about it the other day with Derek, where they're doing electrical muscular stimulation while you go through exercises. It's really helpful. Really? Yeah, it's been three weeks. It's like a microcurrent or more like a... It juices you up like it's all the muscles can track. Like stem kind of thing. Yeah, but it's very strong.

35:17So this is, and you can crank up the intensity. So this is on the shit. Like Mike Tyson, when he was training for Jake Paul, he was doing that. Like what I think it's really good for, I don't know if it's good for a lot of these things, but it's really good for rehabilitation. Sure. For rehabilitation, I think there's tremendous benefits to it. And I bet there's some benefits for athletes for working on specific things and doing it while you're getting juiced up. But man, for me, it's been, it's helped me quite a bit. Pretty quickly too. Like through the corner of that specific spot or they firing something else.

35:54No, they're firing a lot of different parts of your back. So it's like both sides of my back, my obliques, my core, and just going through a bunch of rotational exercises and a bunch of different things. Strengthen lower back and just, you know, you're getting a lot of blood flow through there and stretching it. And it just was, I was getting pain and I was like, shut up pussy. And I would just ignore the pain and then it just got bad. It got bad to the point where my hips were getting kind of numb. And when I was hiking up hills like in October when I was hunting in October, it was bothering me a lot.

36:24I was like, okay, I've got to really do something about that. Yeah, because you could be, you know, talk yourself in or out of something really hard, but if it's something that's just going to be chronic, you're like, well, I'm just going to be chronic. But it's a lot better now. It's a lot better now. And it's only been three weeks. Oh, that's great. My knee is still fucked, but not totally. It's mostly soft tissue. It just, I twisted it. I twisted it crossing, like slippery ground in September. And I've had a lot of problems with it. I've had two knee surgeries. I had my ACL reconstructed. I had a meniscus piece removed.

37:02And then when I was skiing, the last time I was skiing, last and final time I ever ski, this lady did not have a ski. And she like slid into the trail. And I had to try to not wipe out, not hit her or rather. And I wiped out and I got what's called the insufficiency fracture. So it's a for the bone fractured at the top of my shin, my fibula or my tibia rather, right where the cartilage is. And so yeah, that created quite a bit of pain. And then I twisted it again one time when I was about to get on stage. Sorry, I'm gonna play on that. At Stubs, I was going to Stubs, which is like this outside concert venue.

37:42And I was looking at my phone to turn my voice recorder on. So I could like record. And as I was doing that, I twisted my knee on this concrete step. Just yanked the shit out of it to the point where my leg was shaking where I was on stage because I was in pain. I looked like I was super nervous, but I was really just pain. Because I think at this point you get super nervous on stage when you're talking. No, what's up there? I'm not nervous at all. Please do you nervous beforehand? I get excited. Yeah. I think anything you do that you really care about, you should get excited. Yeah. I used to call it my national leg when I would go to national championships in the hammer.

38:15All year I'd be fine. And when I would wind the hammer on the first one, when I took the hammer back, my right leg would bounce. And I'm like, ah, there it is. It was one through a year and it was like, here we go. Oh, wow. They have said adrenaline. Oh, this is adrenaline. Because you're in your physically, you're peaking for it. You're like, this is the day I have to compete. You remember how it was. But you're like, this is the day. And everything else is kind of work. And then you're like, I'm cashing out today. I get to cash out today. Like I get to, like, and then I say, oh, that's the best.

38:44Yeah. That's the best. Doing exciting things is really fun. And it's so important for you to grow as a human. Do something that scares a shit out of you. Do something that excites you. Do something that's difficult. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it's almost, I don't know. Sometimes it's good when it's a more dynamic where you don't know when it's going to happen. But looking forward to something is pretty bad as too. Because then you could start focusing training and focusing efforts and then going through, like almost stages of guilt, the stage of excitement. And you're like, okay, am I exciting? No, I got this one.

39:14I don't see you back and forth. Yeah. Let's go. It's live. Yeah, that's what it is with everything. I mean, I think it's the these processes of like recognizing there's a goal, working towards it, solving problems, working hard, pushing yourself through discipline. That's how you grow. And it's like that's how everything grows, right? This is how your mind grows. This is how your body grows. This is how your life grows. Like you have to do stuff. That's hard. And then you get better at doing stuff that's hard. And that's how you get better. Yeah. And then you level up and you're in this next wilderness.

39:45You're like, all right. Well, what's the next thing? But when that alarm clock goes off, it's so hard to know that. You know all these things, but you're the force of the bed, the gravity of that warm bed. It's cold in the room. Oh, especially like shout out to people who live in like Alaska. Oh, they have to get out of bed. Dude, fuck. I'm sure you've done some hunts where, you know, you're in a tent or something. Oh, yeah. And then you're like, I know I really want to get out there, but oh my, this, you're like my boots are frozen. And like, maybe that bowl will just kind of walk more this way.

40:19First time I ever did was Steve Rinal in Montana. Oh, yeah. I remember seeing that. It was nine degrees. Nine degrees in the morning. We're just like Jesus, crisis, so cold. That was the hunt that started it all for you. Yes. Little forky kind of buck for one of them right there. No, OK. That's the buck. On the way. Yeah, that's the first buck I ever shot. That's awesome. That's him. Yeah. That the buck that launched a thousand hunting careers. Well, it was life changing experience. But you never remember that. Things where, you know, you realize like, wow, where would we be without houses? And it was only by the way, it was only I think October.

41:00It was October of 2012. I'm pretty sure it was October and it was already nine degrees in Montana. Like what was it like in February? Two weeks, four, Fox. What's January like in the morning and you're in a tent for? Well, it's like Josh Smith up there at Mkc. He's talked about like, yeah, everyone loves Yellowstone. You're all about to find out. February is like everyone wants to move here. He goes stick around. It's going to get live here in about January or February. How many people got super confused by that show and bought a house there? And they're like, what is this? Why is the ground solid?

41:33Exactly. Oh, I love it. It's fantastic. Especially someone who's never lived in the real North before. You don't know what happens when your ground freezes. The ground is a piece of rock. Like so you fall on it. Freezes. Everything freezes. Yeah. That's a, that's a whole different animal. It's a different way to live. That's for sure. But you know, I was talking with this gentleman yesterday, Rick Strossman, who was a scientist. But we were talking about the time where he was living in Alaska and he was living in Alaska and he lived in Southern California and then he moved to Fairbanks where it's 39 degrees below zero.

42:13And he's like, what the hell? And then it's dark for like 10 hours. Everyone's depressed. Vitamin Dress. It's not dark for 10 hours, brother. It's only light for four hours. Right. It's light for four hours. So it's dark for 20 hours. Yeah. Fuck that. Have you been to Alaska a lot, I would think. You like it? I like the people up there. They're hardy. It's a different way to put it. It's a different kind of human. Yeah. Yeah, I was at a battle tested. They are. And everyone wears extra tough boots. Yeah, you know what you caught outside with some fucking bullshit flip flops. Yeah. And if your boots are too clean, you get made fun of openly.

42:48They're like, hey, nice and new, extra toughs. You know, your friends with Tyler from our country, Tyler's always walk around everywhere with flip flops. Probably that guy hunted yesterday in shorts. Yeah. Yeah, he's different. He killed it here in shorts. If you're in Alaska and you have flip flops, you're going to die. You're going to, your feet are going to freeze off. You're going to have no feet. Yeah. Like you need boots. I was at a bar out there. We were in Homer, Alaska. And we were playing pool and jacking around with Homer. Homer is, they have this big spit that comes out. I don't know.

43:18It's in Alaska somewhere. How far up there? Far? It's all far. It's big, man. I don't know. When you see how big it is and you lay it over the country, where's Homer? How much we stole from this. There it is. Of course you'd have that. There it is. There it is. So we were, yeah. Damn, Alaska's big. It's so cool, isn't it? So we're on that big spit. So we were on that bay, which is crazy. And yeah, so we're down there. And we were at a bar goofing around. And I remember I walked into the bathroom and I was like, I just kind of noticed. I was like, there's no mirror on the wall, whatever. It was like, God, that's kind of interesting.

43:58And one of the guys was like, yeah, there's no mirrors in the bathrooms in Alaska. Because it doesn't matter what you look like. You better just be capable. You're going to die. And I was like, what a cool place. Like he's just like, no one cares what you look like here. Is everyone's hair is all frowed out and they're dirty and oily and greasy. Yeah. That's the flex here. If you can make it. That's interesting. Yeah, it was like, what a cool. But yeah, we were sitting in that bay looking across the bay with a pair of spotters and looking at tracks and seeing animals across the bay like 19 miles away.

44:30It was crazy on that white snow. It was wild. I never thought you could see that far of the spotting scope. No kid, how much magnification is running? Oh, wow. Yeah, some monsters. But still, it was like, yeah, big swore out that you could see, you know, all of Elon's stuff up in space with probably. Imagine those poor fools that had a hunt with traditional bows, no binos, no spotting scopes. Did anything get in checker? No, no ap finder. I have apps. I have everything. Oh, yeah. I have a rangefinder that syncs up with my app. Of course you do. Well, I don't even have any set it up yet. Do you turn out on all that stuff like I do?

45:05I do. See, here's the problem. I have a loophole rangefinder. I really like loophole's full draw. Yep. The reason why I like it is because it'll show you the arc of your arrow. This is under it is, folks. So my arrows go 294 feet per second. Okay. How heavy? These are 475, 475 grains. And you calculate all this stuff. You put all this stuff into the rangefinder. And the rangefinder knows exactly how heavy your arrow is. Exactly what the peak of it's going to be is it comes off your bow, how fast it's going, and it gives you a line. Yes. So if I'm shooting through a gap and some trees, and I actually did this a couple years ago, I actually did it when I had a Garmin rangefinder.

45:53Right? So the Garmin is a rangefinder site, which is a pretty bad ass. I've always wanted to play with one of this. It kept fucking up, though. Yeah. And apparently they're getting better, but they're trying to fix it. They fucked me a couple of times. And it would fuck me on my range. Like I would do. Like I'd be at full drama range. And I know it's 84 yards, and I press the button, and I'm not getting a range. And I press the button again, and I'm like, so you would press the button and it would give you a red dot. Right. When it works, it's the greatest thing of all time. It's just like a pistol.

46:21Like you see that red dot, that clear lens, and then that dot, it's the best site picture of all time. Of all time. Yeah. Everything else like the post or the side post, they get a little in the way, just a touch. Not bad. I can deal with it, you know. But that red dot was fucking amazing. So I'll show you the bowl afterwards. I'll show you this big bowl. And he was coming through this gap, and I wasn't sure if the arrow was going to make it there. So I pulled out the second range finder, and I clicked on that, and I got the height of the arrow. I knew I could make it, and then I used the range finding site.

46:57So a man that knows his tools. The opposite of these guys with their traditional bow point. Like I'm, you know, I'm using technology. Sure. So the new loophole though, the problem is it doesn't have this, this height thing in it. But the new one, when you range an animal with on X hunt, so you arrange the animal, and it marks, puts a pin down where that animal is. Yeah, I actually had the, I was one of the test subjects for that. They said, yeah, probably two years ago, I was hunting a desert with it, giving them feedback. We found a mule deer the day before, and I ranged him, marked him, and we went back the next day, and I shot him at 14 yards.

47:35That's crazy. That's awesome. That's crazy, because you can go back to the actual spot where he was. Yeah, it threw it off to my phone, and it's like the, I can't remember what it's called, it's the range, but it has like the L .S. Something 500, yeah, something like that. See if you find it, Jamie. Yeah, it's pretty dope. It's super cool. I love loophole shit. I just wish their glasses as good as Swarovskis. Yeah. Everybody, I say that about every, like Vortex makes awesome by -nose. For the money, you can't beat them, especially their HDX series, those really high -end ones. They're a fucking great.

48:05Until you put it through the Swarovskis. The Swarovskis. Pick up those NLP -ers, and you're like, fly, you're like, yeah. It's almost like I wish I never looked through them. Oh, it's, yeah, that's it. The RX 5000. Yeah, that thing is bad. It's pretty dope. So it does, it sinks up with your Onyx hunt, so you could show how it works there. So what's really good about that is not just, you know, you know where your head is, you know where the animal is. So if you have to go around somewhere and get back to him, you'll be able to get back. You know, if you're trying to get away from the wind. Well, the spot and stock is so nice, because we were hunting Mule deer in Arizona.

48:43And you could, same thing, you're circling around and you're depth of perception. I've been 200 yards off. I feel like this is more designed, though, for the rifle hunter. And this is like the even, they're even showing guys like going 2000 yards with this thing. I feel like for the bow hunter, they just need to add the, maybe they'll just make it too big, but add that height of arrow technology. I don't know why they wouldn't put that in there. Yeah. Because I can't use it. I need that. That is so huge for elk hunting. Yeah. For me, it's like gaps or everything. I want to be able to be sneaky and just make my way around a tree.

49:20Just give me this. Give me this much. And if it's, and if I know that the arrows never going to hit the top or the bottom, I'm golden. And I have full confidence. Because otherwise it's a mind -fuck. Because I'm sure you've had arrows hit branches. Oh, yeah. It sucks so hard when you whack. Yeah. You're learning in Cleveland somewhere. A few years back in Utah. There's three or four. That one. I had it pulled up. That was easier than I was made for ballistic. Four, I think this morning. Yeah, these are all for archery. Yes. The football, well, the TBR, so the right. Yeah. That is, that one is a similar one.

49:53I was like, I don't think that's as sophisticated though. And I don't think that has the app. I think the RX one is the only one with the app. But I have that one, the full draw five. I don't go anywhere without that. It's the shit. That, that is to me. I have, I've had a bunch of different ones that were really cool. Like, Aaron Snyder, turn me on to this Nikon. A while back. That was image stabilizing. That was a game changer. That was, that's a big deal. Because you could really like get the rangefinder on the animal. Yeah. Image stabilizing rangefinder. Yeah. I used image stabilizing binoculars.

50:25Have you used those sig ones? I've used camps. I tried that. To those things. Pretty dope. I'm running 16s. Yeah. Oh, right. Because you could just hold them. Because you could just hold them. I have, I've run Swarrows since 1999. And I started leaving mine at home because I like this sig so much. And they did the new HD. So it has a better glass. Now, still nice clear is Swarrows. I mean, that's just, but because you could stabilize, I could run 16s. And I'll run 16s in the woods. Because I could just peer through everything and like boom. I ran 12s in the woods this year, which is a little too much.

51:00When you're in stable lines. I usually run tens, but I like sometimes. To my 42s. Yeah. Sometimes when you're looking at something that's really far off, you're like, I don't know if that's good bulls. That's worth chasing. Yeah. The 12s make all the difference in the world. But what I do is I grab my baseball hat. I learned this trick from Remi Warren. Oh, that's a good idea. So what you do is you... Remi's a killing son of a gun. I use a killing son of a month. You clip that sucker down tight. So your hat's on tight. And then I'll do this. Oh. And I'll hold my biennows right here. Or take my bow and put it here and then stack it on top of the bow.

51:35Press the bow up against your chest. So it's not going to go anywhere. And then stack it on top of the cam of the bow. A lot of guys do that. Sure. But Remi taught me this one. And I think this one's super legit. Just hold on to your fast too. And you can get your... You can tuck your elbows in like this. And you can really keep it stable. If I couldn't do that, I wouldn't use 12s. But I don't think I'm going to use 12s anymore anyway. Really? No, I think tens of the way to go. And maybe even eights. Because you get a bigger field of view. Yeah. Because a lot of times I'm seeing stuff through trees.

52:02And I'm sneaking around. Like I like to... You know, I'm a big spot in stock guys. That's true. I've tried a bunch of different hunting. I've tried ground blind. I tree stand hunted with Dudley. Yep. That you can go fuck yourself with that. Sitting those trees all day. Fuck that. I am way too ADHD for that. You'll find out if you're crazy. Oh, I'm crazy. Yeah. I'm definitely crazy. Yeah. I don't like it. I don't like being up there in a tree like that. Here's my question though. I was just in Missouri. I went to our farm. I was there six or seven days. And we sit... You know, 30 minutes before to 30 minutes all day.

52:41Yeah, you have to. It's all... But I would think with as many people as popping on you and all this, like, it was nice. Because for me, I'm like, I'm quiet. I could just be... Yeah. I enjoy that part where I could just unravel and think through problems. But yes, you go crazy and then you burn out your phone because you're like, and I'm going to start you for the dumbest things possible. I'm going to buy socks. 100%. You just sit here. Also, you don't realize, like, if it's 30 degrees out, like 30 degrees, no big deal. You're going to walk around 30 degrees. But as soon as you're sitting there.

53:13Dude. And 30 degrees. You get so fucking cold. So cold. You're not moving. So you're not generating any heat at all. So then you're in this stupid body warmer suit. Oh, yeah. You're like in a big snuggie. It's a big old oven. My hands are in here. But the problem with that is if a deer comes and he got a... Oh, yeah. You got to be all at noise. You got to get out of it. All this movement. Grab your bow. So you really shouldn't do that. So you try to go with a puffy. But you're still freezing. And then I start doing Bruce Lee exercise. I'm up there and fucking... One thing I realized. I was so cold I had a hard time pulling my bow back once.

53:47Yeah. I was going to shoot this deer. And I was up in that stance. But there in four or five hours. Yeah, in Iowa. And I go to pull that bow back. I'm like, Jesus. Well, because you shoot a 90 pound bow. Yeah, but I was so cold. Oh, no. Yeah, I'll sit there and just do like... You know, I can't stand that. I had a 95 pound bow for a while. Oh, I remember when he made you that one. I couldn't draw it on my knees. I had to stand up. You know how I found that out? Because you could... Because I went on my knees right behind a bush. And an elk walk behind my fuck. God damn it. Yeah, that was a super helpful.

54:16And that was in a weird spot too, where I only leaned on my left leg too. Like so it was like... It was on my knee, but I was even on my left knee. It was like a fucked up hell. Right. You don't have a good... Yeah, I was like, my right knee was up like this. But left knee was down there. Like this is bullshit. That bow was crazy. I remember when you were shooting... Bro. When it hits, it was just like... What? It was... Like I remember we were shooting at the Deseret, and we were all shooting at 100 yards. It's just me and a couple of these guys. And they shot first, and then I shot. And the guys go, what the fuck are you shooting?

54:54Because the bow was still... The cave was still rolling at that point. He goes, that bow is so flat. What is that? I don't know, this is a 95 pound bow. It was the dumbest thing ever. I remember you said to me, you were like, this thing's preposterous. It was so dumb. It also had a really short brace height, so it was super sketchy. So if you moved your hand, it was so unforgiving that if you moved your hand even slightly, you were off target by six inches. Oh, geez. Yeah, just really twitched. Driving a little Tokyo drifter around all the time. It was so dangerous. Not dangerous, really. But like, you just wouldn't...

55:25Yeah. I didn't trust it. You know, I killed a couple of animals with it, and then I stopped trusting it. Yeah, and you get to put it on the wall and go... Well, then I went to an 80 pound bow from Hoyt, and I was like, oh my god, this is so much better. It was like 15, 20 % more accurate. I was like, that thing is just too... Yeah, I just got that RX 9 last week. Oh, that's great, Paul. It's, I'm shooting 76, but I'm 30 and a half inches. I got a pretty good stroke on it. Oh, yeah, man. Yeah, I'm shooting some extra horsepower at 28 and a quarter. I need like... I'm shooting 5, 20 grain at about 282.

55:59So it's moving out. That's great. Yeah. I'm just a former. He likes 265 to 280. Yeah. He thinks that like that's the range where the arrows are like the most accurate. There's this thing about having too much fucking whip. Yeah. You know, there's too much, and it's almost like... See, too much flex on the arrow. There's a lot of flex on the arrows, and it's probably more subject to wind drift when they're flexing like that. You know? It's like when you used to throw the javelin, there was different rated javelins, and you could be too strong for the job. And so if you don't pull through the tip perfectly, just like arrow spot.

56:35Right. And so you have a 50 meter javel, 60 meter javel, 70 meter. And when you start getting strong, you could bend a 50 meter javelin like a banana. Wow. It's kind of fun, actually. You come down like... Like Lamar for a moment. Like what was it, a revenge of the nerds? Oh, okay. But yeah, it does... That makes sense that it would be just like arrows. Yeah. Because for folks at home, say if you have a 50 pound bow, you could probably get away with the 320 green arrow, 330, 350. So the higher the number, the more flexible the spine of the arrow is, and the lighter the arrow will be. So I chewed a 250.

57:13So it's like a nice dip. Because you're not going to pull through the energy. Especially how much weight you have in the front creates that more of a flex. Exactly. But to me, it's all about... Like I've heard arguments before, like people say, oh, you don't need that much bow power, you don't shut your fucking dirty little skinny mouth. Because the only reason why you would say that is because you can't pull that back. That's the only reason. And if you think that 70 pounds to you is the same as 70 pounds to me, and you don't work out, that's just dumb. That doesn't make any sense. Yeah, it's like saying, well, you don't need a 500 pound deadlift to look...

57:51Yeah, but it's nice. Yeah, but if you can't squat 500 pounds and you have to squat 500 pounds, you can't do it. I can. So shut the fuck up. It's nice to have in your pocket. Shut your dirty little skinny hole. Yeah. Because all that is is you're just saying there's virtue in being physically weak. And that's stupid. That's stupid. Do you need to be able to pull back 80 pounds to kill an elk? No. If you can't pull back 80 pounds and you're really accurate with 60 pounds and you have a cut on contact broadhead, you can be successful. But I'm going through that whole animal. Yeah. I'm getting a pass through on a giant animal and you're probably not gonna.

58:27Yeah. And I think that's... It's more important to be able to have the most ultimately lethal set up possible. I learned this from cam. He's my mentor. Yeah. He's the guy who taught me how to bow hunt and, you know, his whole thing is... He shoots a 90 pound bow as well. It's like the most amount of power and you want to make a big fucking hole. Yes. And you want that animal to die like that. Yeah. Well, with anything, why would more horsepower if you could handle it not be advantageous? It's stupid. That's why race cars have limits on the amount of power you could have. Yeah. Because it is more advantage, you know, the Formula One drivers figured out a way to get a 4 ,000 horsepower engine and have it handled.

59:04They would win. They would win. Right. Or if you could punch 30 % harder than everyone else in UFC. Yeah. Do it. Yeah. Literally, the time frame in Chicago became the heavyweight champion of the world. Fucking, it's harder than anybody. Yeah. It's interesting. My buddy Lauren Landau, strength coach, I was talking to him last week and he did actually a study on ground force power into punching. And they did. So they tested it on like a force plate, jump in force plate. And then they did a proteus machine. Have you ever seen one of those? They kind of like it's like you kind of throw it and push it kind of the same thing.

59:40So they tested the power of the punch. Then tested ground force. And then they did squats, but they also did like a trap bar deadlift. And then the training was a jammer arm, like a jammer arm punch. So they had the sequence of force. And he had a double digit increase of strength through the power through the ground. And it equated to a 12 % increase in punching power. So almost almost percent for percent. So you look at that and say, well, if you're stronger, you squat more or deadlift more. Now, as long as it doesn't take away from the sport, but that has a very, very real effect on punching power.

1:00:16Yeah, the way it takes away from the sport is if you're sore from lifting weights, you're not going to train as effectively. Of course. That's the fact. Like it takes too much time away from your technique or injury or whatever. That's where steroids come in. And that's why you're going to be right. You're going to be right. You're going to train 365 days a year. He's open about it. Like he's open about his use. Yeah. Because they don't test for steroids in jiu -jitsu. So, you know, he's a wizard. So he's like a tracking test. That's interesting. I figured that they would. Nope. You have C -vid, they do, right?

1:00:46Do you have C -vid? Yeah. But you ever seen Gordon? You ever seen Michelle Ruff? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah.

1:00:59I mean, when you have that, and then you have a genius level IQ, and then on top of that, you fuck out. That's pretty typical. This big shit eating grid on his face. And then you have a guy who trains 365 days a year who also works on technique constantly. That's how you have the greatest of all time. Yeah. But by the way, all those guys like Galval, the guy who's on the bottom there, he's on the juice too. It's a level playing field. They're all juiceed up. Right. Right. It was kind of like the lifters and the throwers at the end. Everyone had a 600 pound bench because that's what you do. And guess what?

1:01:31You got a test now. Well, this is a great argument to this idea of power being necessary, like with jiu -jitsu and grappling. You know, like, if you have technique like Gordon's and you're built like him. Yeah. Giant advantage. Giant advantage to be super strong always. In all of life, there's fucking zero advantage of being weak. No, there's never a time you're like, you know what? If I could just get my squat down a bit, it really pan out for me. One thing though that is really important, this actually really pays off. If you can train with a guy who's small, like if you can learn jiu -jitsu with a guy who's small, you'll learn the best jiu -jitsu.

1:02:09Why is that? Because they have to use technique. They have to use leverage. Like you're a big fucking strong guy. If you learn jiu -jitsu, you could use that strength. You could squish people's necks and throw them on the ground and grab their arms and stuff like that. But a small guy can never do that. So if you can learn jiu -jitsu from like a barit Yoshita or a whoreler Gracie or Eddie Bravo or there's a few of those Gabe Tuttle who teaches over here at 10th Planet, small guy jiu -jitsu is the best jiu -jitsu because it has to be razor sharp because they don't have the physical strength like overpower and arm.

1:02:44And if you get you into a certain position just from raw horsepower, they have to like sneak it in there with leverage and they have to do everything perfectly. So those guys, if you learn jiu -jitsu from them, you're going to learn like the most technical jiu -jitsu. Is that like obviously a reason why you should learn younger when you're small and weak? Well, it's always good to learn young because first of all, it becomes a natural part of your movement. Like it's like as your body matures, your body's m - I think it's more important with striking than anything. It's very rare that someone learns how to strike while they're already physically mature and you ever reach the level of like a Floyd Mayweather.

1:03:24Because that guy, as he was a child, his body, his reflexes, developed striking. And he's just got this massive encyclopedia of information that's available to him. He knows exactly when he sees you do this. He knows that straight left is coming and he knows all he has to do is do this and he knows that counter is going to be there when you go to look for the right hand afterwards. He's just got it all programmed. It's all just like writing there. For you to build that up after your 28, you're going to be at his level. You're not, you kind of have to, unless you're some physical freak which they do exist.

1:04:08Yeah, but what I've understood too is the potential for building speed, which is, let's be honest, speed is a big part of power, which is punching, right? It's the sequence of force. How do you create force to the ground, explosion of force, not implosion into your arm or your foot or whatever it is? That ends at 22. The potential to develop the potential for speed ends at 22. Really? Yeah, that's why all the weightlifters and everyone, gymnasts, everyone has to start young. So when you're firing patterns. 27 and you try, you'll never, you won't reach the potential you could have genetically because you just don't have this, the sequence, the speed, right?

1:04:44It's the, I know how to do this at speed. It goes whack, whack, whack through here and I could crack that whip. Your body just has, it's done too many other things at lower speed. You know where I really notice that with kicking. When I teach people kicking, there's certain things that they have a really hard time doing fluidly. You know what I'm saying? The first, the big ones is like anything that requires spinning. Like if you look at a good MMA fighter that doesn't have like a Taikwondo background and you teach them how to throw a wheel kick, they'll never be able to throw a wheel kick like a real Taikwondo block belt.

1:05:22There's certain guys that like as they're young, they're developing these spinning techniques and they just got it wired in. They're whole nervous system. And it's so smooth and fluid that the power is so extraordinary. And you know, I've taught people that were like elite MMA fighters and I try to teach them how to throw things like a spinning back kick for instance. It takes a long time for them. Even like John Jones is one that he landed like on steep A. That guy is a freak. Like that guy is like what we're talking about. Like you can, there's some guys you can teach them things when they're in their 30s and they can develop it like as someone has been doing it their whole life.

1:06:05But that's a rare exception. And the other rare exception I was thinking was Alex Pereira. Alex didn't really start striking until he was like 21 years old. He didn't start training. But my question would be what other things that he do that that exaggerate like that developed that speed and power sequence because like you know what he did? He worked in a tire shop. Really? Yeah. So he's like hoist and tires and hammer and tires down and setting wheels. Right. So you're learning, you're learning to do the most because if you're doing it for a job, you're going to do the most efficient method possible to move an object.

1:06:41You're also going to have that tire up there to develop rotational strength. Right. You're throwing hammers down. I mean, he's doing this eight hours a day all day long. So like think about how many tires he's hammered. Yeah. That's not a training thing. Francis and Gano, when he was a child worked in a sand mine. So he's fucking digging sand all the time. He just, as he's developing, I've also massive physical specimen. Right. So he's like six six or six five, whatever he is 265 natural built like a fucking Greek God, like a statue. Just and his whole body's developing as he's a young man dig in sand and the anger you have.

1:07:23I can't believe I have to dig this fucking. It's like the wheel of pain. Like, it is like Conan. He really is like a guy from a movie in a sand and then becomes a heavyweight champion of the world's homeless. Oh, yeah. Is he ever heard of his story? Oh, yeah. So buddy of mine, both sand of all used to run the strength conditioning direct, he was a strength of a conditioning director. UFC. And so he told me about years and years he's like, we got this guy. And I was like, really? He goes, no, this is going to be a dude. And I'm like, really? And he told me his whole story about Cameroon, I'm like living in France and the whole deal.

1:07:54And I became like, I never even looked eyes on the guy. I was like, this guy's, he's my guy. I want to like, I want to like him. Oh, he came on to see where like, oh, his life story told on the podcast about making his track. Like he just decided he has to leave Cameroon. And I was like, what are you going to do? You can't go anywhere. And he went through the fucking desert all the way to Morocco and then gets in a raft and does it seven different times. He gets arrested, gets taken into custody. They bring him into the middle of desert, drop him off. He goes right back to Morocco, walks through, hitches ride, took him a year and a half.

1:08:28If he makes, I don't care how much money that guy makes, it's not enough. For just being able to do that. That is so, so, so. How about he has one boxing fight? He knocks down the heavyweight champion of the world and one of the greatest heavyweight boxers of all time. He hits him with a left hook and drops him. And almost one. Like I thought he won the decision. It was over. I was like, they're going to give it to him. I think he won the decision. He was battering him in the eighth round. He dropped him in the second. I'm like, I think he won. That's, and a lot of people thought he won. Yeah.

1:08:56And he came that close. That fucking close. And so is that like, obviously genetically super gifted, right? But then also, like we're talking about like shoveling and doing all this work. When you do that work for that long, you learn how to become efficient because you don't want to spend extra time and effort doing stuff. So you just learn how to kind of move stuff. There's a little bit of that. And I think to be, to be really charitable, I think Tyson Fury probably didn't think that he had a chance. I think Tyson Fury probably didn't train his hard as he would have trained if he thought the Francis was a real threat.

1:09:30Right. I think he probably thought, I'm going to box this guy's fucking face off. How could this MMA fighter? And then he gets hit with one of them hammers. Yeah. He gets left, tucked in the side of his head. He's like, what the fuck did this guy just hit me with? And he's on his ass as the heavyweight champion of the world. So fighting a guy with zero professional fight. That was his first ever pro fight, his second ever pro round. And he drops one of the greatest heavyweights in the history of the game. I think, here's my Mount Rushmore of Heavyweight Boxers. Mike Tyson's number one. Mike Tyson from 1986 to like 1990, there was not or 88, whatever it was.

1:10:13There was a few years before the wheels came off because he was just going crazy and hard in fighting with syphilis and shit. He was a maniac. But that guy, the guy who knocked out like Michael Spinks, the guy who knocked out Larry Holmes, the guy who won the title from Trevor Burbank, I think that guy's the greatest heavyweight fighter of all time. He was a juggernaut man. The guy who knocked out Marvis Frazier, that's the scariest version of Tyson ever. The Marvis Frazier version. But you were like probably late high school. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like a little kid and I remember like walking out in my skateboard and they're like, you see the Larry Holmes fight last time?

1:10:47I was like, oh no. But I heard it's like 19 seconds or whatever. It was crazy. It was all pumped up. No, the Larry Holmes fight went a few rounds. Yeah. Yeah. I was doing a little boxing myself and I was a giant boxing fan. He was a freak. He was a very unusual thing because every other heavyweight was kind of slow and you know, they could hit hard. They were lumbering. He was bobbing and weaving and moving and he was so small. Anyway, wasn't even six feet tall. So he's built like a brick shit house. He's got a 20 inch neck. He's a 220 pounds moves like a guy who's 150 and he's throwing lightning bolts at your central nervous system just like, he's hitting you to the body and your fucking legs are shutting off.

1:11:29He was a monster. I just think you can't maintain that forever. And I think I always when I look at fighters, I try to look at them like when they were, when they were white hot, just burning hot at the highest level that they could achieve. What was that like? Like what was that? I feel like his greatest Muhammad Ali was, man, I just don't see him surviving. I just had the height. No, no. I just, I see like Henry Cooper dropped Ali when he was back when he was cashless clay with a left hook and they cheated to get him out of the round. Custom model cut his gloves. So they had to take his glove off and replace the gloves.

1:12:09They gave him all this recovery time. You ever seen that Henry Cooper? Henry Cooper was a bad man. He was his British boxer, this guy from England who had a nasty left hook and he caught cashless clay. He was like, perfect one. And he slumps down on the ropes. He was Dunsville, but it was at the end of the round and then Angelo Dundee. I mean, that guy had been around the block. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was like, he's got these fucking gloves. See if you can find that, Jamie, because it's a, it's a crate. It's a crazy fork in the road in history. Right. Because if they don't cheat, likely he gets stopped, likely Henry Cooper who landed the perfect left hook hit some of the couple more.

1:12:51Right. That's it. He's done. He looks done already. Like watch this. Henry Cooper had a nasty left hook. Good. Broke. Look how he gets down there. Yeah. That's not regular down. That's fucked up down. That's like real trouble, but it's the very end of the round. Look at this. Bro, but look how he goes down. That is, that's Dunsville. So if that's a minute earlier, he gets hit with that. Yep. The whole thing changes. Right. The whole thing changes. He's not undefeated when he fights on he list in. He's not this unstoppable force. Isn't that crazy? Crazy. And that can happen. Yeah. And there are fighters that I have seen in the UFC that I go, this guy could be the next fill in the blank.

1:13:36This guy could be the next great welterweight champion, the next great lightweight champion. And then they have one fight. And in one fight, something happens. They could hit with a flying knee or they get head kicked or something happens. Yep. And then their whole path changes. And you go, wow. If that guy wasn't overmatched, if he didn't fight that guy. So this is the difference between boxing and the UFC. The UFC is like, when you're ready, come to us. And you're going to fight the best. Boxing is like, we're going to build you. We're going to take you and you're going to fight a few guys that are like real slick, but they don't have power.

1:14:15And then you're going to fight a big guy with a lot of power, but he doesn't have any endurance. Yeah. And they're like, he's ready for this now. You know, if you have a really good trainer, like Tyson Fury's trainer, Sugar Hill, he's going to like, he's analyzing your movements. He's breaking down things. He's figuring out what to change, what not to change, when to back you off a training. Like you're a little too hot right now. Let's like, let's not peek too soon. Because we got two weeks before the fight. I want you to take a day off. Like take a day off. I'm ready to fucking eat nails. No, no, no.

1:14:48No, we got to, they know exactly. And then they're like, he's ready for this level of competition. So they'll give you a guy that'll offer you some struggles, some tests. Maybe he's got a big, big punch. And you know, you might lose the fight, but you're most likely going to win. And this is how you find out if a guy's going to make it. He's slowly moving. So there's a lot of boxers, you know, by the time they're fighting for the title, they're 14 and 16 and 18. Right. Charles Olivera. I mean, what is Charles Olivera's record? Let's, let's see Charles Olivera's record. So Charles Olivera, when he became the lightweight champion, he had a ton of losses in the UFC.

1:15:26He got stopped by Paul Felder. He got stopped by Cubswanson, K -Odom. He got a, I think, I'm pretty sure Jim Miller, knee barred him. So what is his record? Jim's a freak. Look at that. 35 and 10. Golly. Okay. And so out of those 10, a few of them have been recently, scroll back up to the top, please. So the Islamokitech, he loses the title and then Arman Sarukian. He loses split decision. I thought he won that fight, by the way. But it was close. So those are the two out of those 10s. So that means as a champion, he had eight fucking losses, eight losses and some of them brutal knockouts. Because you're in there with the lions, with all the lions.

1:16:13And so the UFC is like, who's the baddest lion? Let's figure it out. Like you want to be in the UFC, you win a few fights. We're going to throw you in, or if it's, you know, last short notice, short notice fight. Let's go. And the thing you find out too, is that the level at the UFC, as great as some of these guys look in these other organizations, the level at the UFC, that's the peak. Those are the greatest fires on the planet. There's no arguing about it. And we found out about that this past weekend, because Alashandre Pantosa, who might be the best pound for pound fighter alive. He's the flyweight champion.

1:16:49He fought this dude Kai Asakura from Japan, who's a fucking assassin. A Pantosa just ate him alive. Just ate him alive. And he caught caught with a couple of good shots too, a couple of good knees to the body. And you know, Kai Asakura is a really good fighter, but the level is just different. Like Pantosa just, he strangled him, but it was just the way he did it. I mean, he was fucking him up on the feet. He was fucking him up everywhere. He was just pushing him. And this like insane pace. You watch those little guys fight, like they can, they fight like pit bulls, man. Like just like wild scrambles where they're moving so fast.

1:17:26You're trying to call the fight. And it's like, me and Daniel, we're talking about it during the commentary. Like we have to recalibrate our brains. Yeah, because you won't go from a heavyweight fight to a flyweight fight. Like whoa, it's like listen to podcasts. And when you turn it to 1 .5, yeah, I actually had to start listening to your podcast at regular speed, because I was, I thought you talked really fast. Just like, oh, Joe, no one talks that fast because I listened to it super fast. So many sent me a clip of someone, some political person talking about one of the guests on the show and I was like, what is wrong with the clip?

1:17:58And then I had to realize, like, oh, they got it on speed it up for. Yeah, do you listen to stuff speed it up? Never. Never. A buddy of mine taught me that he listens to books. He got up to 4x. And so he just downloaded. But are you also working it the same way? I think if you're kind of like a rainman, which I'm not, but I can go 1 .5 pretty easy. And I could, I could just get through it faster. Yeah, I see how that could help. But for me, I'm not doing reading the books on tape or listening to books on tape or anything other than my own enjoyment and education. So for me, I'm enjoying it. So I like to think about the things and I'll have more time to think about what this person's saying if they're not going at 1 .5 speed.

1:18:39Because if they're going at 1 .5 speed and going one concept to the next, then I'm like, wait a minute, I don't understand why you're going to have to back up. Yeah. I like to think about stuff. So it's like, especially if I'm listening to something asotaric or really weird, you know, which is a lot of the stuff that I listen. If I'm not listening to fiction, I'm probably listening to a book on physics or something. I listen to Jack Carr's stuff at regular speed because I really just enjoy the books. Oh, that guy, what is his name? Who's the guy who does his stuff? By... That's really good. Yeah, I can't remember.

1:19:09He has a lot of good dialects and everything. Jack texted me this morning and said, hi. He's the man. He's awesome. I love that. We're cross -time locks on the wall. Oh, for sure. I love it. He's like, hey, Jill, I said, hi. I love that, dude. He's salted the earth. We just got him from CMB's. With the... With the... Yeah, a reporter. A new is a race. With the cross -time locks on there. He's the fucking man. And the thing about his books on tape, though, is you're locked into a reporter forever. Some new person starts to read and... Oh, you screwed. Like, who is this guy? This is bullshit. You can't have this guy doing it.

1:19:46Guys, amazing. I'm used to all the voices. The rave is good. It's got to sound the app. Yeah, it's nice. You know what else is really good? Who's the guy who does the Gray Man series? There's a guy who does... You ever listen to the Gray Man series? I'm so addicted. Mark Graney writes them, they're so ultra -violent. They're so fucking crazy. They're so crazy. It's about a CIA hitman. It was like a singleton guy and they sent all of them. Dude. It's so... They made a movie about it. Is it like one of the weird ones who give you your think about it all night? Oh, yeah. When I was watching the Soprano's, my view on the world would change.

1:20:21J. Snyder. That guy's really good. He does really good girl voices, too. But those fucking books, man, they are so ultra -violent. They're so crazy. They're so crazy. Sometimes I listen to them and I have to shut them off before I go to bed. Like, if I listen to them, I like to think the sauna before I go to bed. And so if I'm listening to a book on cosmology, that's great. It's interesting. Yeah. It's very cool. But if I'm listening to some gray man before I go to bed, I'm like, I'm gonna shut this off. Yeah, we don't need that. We don't need that in the house. Yeah, people get in their fucking eyeballs.

1:20:55Like a giant sword shove through their eyeballs, getting blown up, grenades in their mouth. Like, hey! Hey, hey! It was so... Hey, hey, hey! Do you like scroll around? I know you're not supposed to look at your phone before you go to bed. I always just... I like look up ballistics. My wife's like, what are you doing now? I was like, yeah, she's... Well, that's good. That's not social media. That's good. Well, I do it because I actually have to think about stuff and it doesn't matter. I have to look at something that doesn't matter. Like, if I look at like a good... Right. Don't check an email.

1:21:27Like, you're screwed, right? Like, and I'll tell my wife, she's like, hey, I got a question for her. She's like, the lights are off. Don't ask questions right now. Like, I'll be all night. I'll be thinking of this problem I have to solve. Yeah. So, like, I'll just sit down like, hey, I wonder what the ballistic coefficient of a 350 -remington magnum is. By the way, anybody with a beard like yours, I would assume they know the ballistic coefficient of a three... It's like, hey, see, a dude in a beard like that, he's kind of jacked. I'm like, that guy knows how to shoot some things. Oh, one hundred percent.

1:21:55And I'm just like, oh, yeah, so you would be... Probably loads his own bullets. Yeah, everybody nine nights drop it. Three hundred, interesting. Okay, I'll keep that in mind. Yeah, probably load your own rounds. Yeah, well, you know. Yeah, I bet you do. I get you getting presses. Pops used to be really, really into that. Yeah. Thankfully, I know the guys at Nostra, so they just sent me a hammer, which is nice. I've made the mistake of looking at social media before I go to bed and I get mad. Or I get upset, or I get sad. Or, yeah, find out some weird shit that's going on in the world. Yeah. And when I was younger, I'd read things that people would say about me and I'd be like, oh my god, like, what was this asshole?

1:22:28That's not true. And you get all upset. And then I realized like, wait, this is just some person. Like, I wouldn't talk to them in real life. Like, what do I get? Why is there opinion more valid because it's written down? So then I stopped reading all comments about me. And oh my god, it changed everything. Changed everything. You do the post -in -ghost, right? Yes, it's the way to go. I have friends and they'll come to me, like, they'll come to the comedy club or something. And they'll be like genuinely, emotionally distraught because people are attacking them online. I go, but they're not here.

1:23:01Like, right here, your friends are here and you're all freaked out because I know I gotta stop reading that stuff. I go, you gotta stop reading that stuff. First of all, it's not true. You're really funny. You're a great guy. So it's all bullshit and they don't know you. So they're just deciding to do this and they know that it fucks with you because you talk openly about it. And so now they're gonna accentuate it. They're gonna, yeah, they're gonna keep jabbing at you. They gotta rock. There's a window. Yeah, they're the cheap seats. We're with them. Yeah, you gotta stop doing that, man. And a few guys have listened to me and a few guys haven't.

1:23:29And the guys have listened to me. They all say the same thing. Like, oh my God, it feels so much better. I'm like, yeah, social media's not the problem. The problem is either engaging in the anger in the hate or having reading people's anger and hate towards you and having it fuck your head up. Like, hey, do you think it's something that's like systemic that is literally spreading and growing? Like the people that put that type of trash out all the time and then they think there's some sort of value to that. And then other people see it and then you know. Right, they do get engagement, right? And if you're a person that has like a YouTube show where all you do is shit on people, you have bad karma for sure.

1:24:06For sure you're suffering. Yeah, but you gotta deal with that the rest of your life like dealing with that poison. You can make a living doing that. Like there are guys who make a living doing that. They're all fucked up. I'm not saying there's value in it. But I do think you make something out. You can create a career doing that. That's part of the problem is that it's effective. Right, like the trolls. Yeah, like trolls and you. It does get engagement. But then you know, what kind of engage when are you getting? Look, I have people that hate me on, but not the ones who know me. Right. That's what's kind of important.

1:24:42Yeah. Like the people that know me either in real life or through the podcast know I'm a nice person. Right, I work really hard at it. Sure. I'm actually, I try hard to be a nice person. It's not like it's a conscious effort. I'm good at it. I like doing it. I like nice people. Like, makes me feel good, right? Makes me feel good. Yeah. So I don't engage. I don't fire back at people. Yeah. I don't, you know, when people get mad at me, I'm like, even celebrities have attacked me. I'm like, yeah. How does that feel like? Probably being in that world a bit more and then now having people turn on you probably feels strange.

1:25:15Yeah. They're just, they're just revealing who they are. They're just weak. They're just weak people. They're not the type of person that, if you did that in front of me when you were around me, we could have a conversation about why I feel like you're incorrect. And this assumption that you have of me is totally wrong. And also, if you're not talking to someone in person and you're saying something about that person, like, you don't, you can just kind of like form some bullshit narrative. Of course. The person's right there, they'll go, that's not true. That's what you're saying, something. And if it was true, then you would be justified in your anger.

1:25:52But what are you saying is not true and you're taking things completely out of context. Right. And you don't know what you're talking about. And you're doing this because your life sucks. And it's the only time you do it. I've always said, you think Michael Jordan is posting on YouTube? He's making comments? No. When he was in, if YouTube was around, when Michael Jordan was the king, would he be doing that? No. He doesn't have time because he's being a winner. Because he's actually winning and doing. Yeah. But 100%. Guarantee that Michael Jordan reads the comments. And if he did read the comments, he'd be up all night, anger.

1:26:21You know, like you saw that, Neil Brennan had a bit about Michael Jordan's documentary on his last Netflix specials pretty funny. It's like unless you want to be the greatest basketball player of all time, because you don't hold grudges unless, you want to have $150 million with a passive income every year because it's a fucking silhouette of you dunking. Unless, unless, it's a good and less. But again, those are freaks, right? Yeah. These are the outliers. These are the people like as a rule, as a human being, that's not the way to go. Just insatiable desire to like just hammer that nail until it's just so far down in the wood.

1:27:02He's like, I don't know what you're doing anymore, but that's how you become the greatest ball time. You leave no question. It's just the difference in that in sport versus that in fighting though, is in fighting. You could, I don't think you can maintain it. No. Like a guy like Jordan, how long was he in his prime? It was a decade, right? For a decade, he was dominating the basketball. Wow. You can't really do that in fighting. You think John Jones, the only one who's been able to do that. Do you think it just takes so much aggression, so much damage to your body? You know, the damage to your body is huge because there's so much damage that happens just in training.

1:27:38We John tore his pack off of his fucking shoulder in training. Yeah, and that wasn't getting hit. That was wrestling. That was. Yeah. And then there's the impacts that you get, and then there's the back stuff. You know, you get thrown weird. You land on your back weird. You're throwing someone. Sure. A knee hits you weird. Your ribs break all the time. Hands break all the time. Like common gym injuries, knee blows out, noses. Everybody's got a broken nose. I don't know anybody who does any kind of combat sports that doesn't broken their nose. So there's like, after a while, you can't breathe out of your nose.

1:28:16Your nose is destroyed. Your fucking hand hurts when you try to open your car door. And you have to punch people in the head with it. Your knee hurts going downstairs. Kamaru Usman, you wanna hear something crazy? When he walks, he has to walk backwards downstairs because his knees are so bad. Cause he can't get the knee over the toe. His knee hurts so bad. And he was a Walter Wick champion of the world with those knees. And he was talking about it openly. He was like, oh, you know, you can know. You can know my knees are bad. I'm still gonna fuck you up. And he did. He fucked everybody up forever.

1:28:48It's coming to Leon Edwards. But his knees are so bad that he would have to walk on the grass where everybody was like, walk on the sidewalk. Wow, it's good. You'd have to go over to walk on the grass cause just take a little bit of religious cushion. Just something. Yeah, bone on bone, man. Yeah, bone on bone. Walter Wick champion of the world. Like the operators, like, you know, guys are jumping out of, oh yeah, like all of them are jacked up. All of them in every one in the strength world. Everyone's low back. Everyone's shoulder. Everyone's knee. Everyone in Jiu -Jitsu. Everyone's got a back problem.

1:29:18Everyone's got a neck problem. Just part of it. Everyone blows a knee out. It's part of it. Yeah, and if, you know, Eddie always used to say, look, you're gonna have to get surgery eventually. You don't even have to get surgery. Just get the surgery, heal up, come back. You're not gonna stop. Yeah, we rebuilding this engine and keep erasing or is this like doing this least as you can to not get surgery? My second surgery, I went to his doctor and when I had a bucket handle, my nisk is tear, so it would lock. You ever have one of those? Yeah, it locks out. It was fucking brutal. And he was like, you've got to stop doing martial arts.

1:29:48I go, shut the fuck up. I go, you don't know what you're talking about. I go fix this. He was like, when you're older, I'm like, yeah, when I'm older. Like right now, 30 years old, fix my fucking knee. I gotta go strangle people. What are you talking about? What the fuck are you talking about? Stop doing this. So I'm not gonna stop doing this. Same thing. I was 22 when I had that and I had an Olympic trial in two years. It was too much fun. I was like, see, I know, like, no, and I before I went in, I was like, I've squatted this much and I do this. When I come out of it, I expect to be back there.

1:30:17So fix it like that. Don't fix it like I'm an old guy taking her easy and like, yeah, I got, I got shit to do. Do they fix it differently depending on who you are? I don't know. I just felt better about saying it. I'll tell you what, they do get, they got a lot better. I tell you it actually fix you. Maybe they wouldn't fix normal. Well, I tell everybody, if you have an opportunity to get an ACL reconstruction, please, at least try the cadaver graft. I know a lot of people wanna do that patella tendon graft because you don't have the risk of rejection. I don't know anybody who's had a rejection from the cadaver.

1:30:53I do know people who've pushed it too hard, too early and then re -blown it. Cause you know how it works? Do you know what happens? I'm not familiar. It's really kind of interesting. You get this. So my right knee, when I blew my ACL out, they take a cadaver, like I have a dead dude's Achilles tendon, which is much thicker. I don't know his name. I hope it was a, God, my friends is a god. You're like, some stars. Just fucking animal, just giant viking dude. So it's a, it's thicker than the, it's 150 % stronger than a real ACL. And so they screw that in place. And then it's not like you have this dead guy's thing in there forever.

1:31:32What happens is your body re -proliferates. It acts as a scaffolding. So it can feel like it's secure, but it's really vulnerable. So you have to be super careful up until like that six month mark when it should be re -proliferated. And so does the, does the foreign tissue eventually just kind of get reabsorbed, which is no weird. Exactly. You eat that dead guy's Achilles with your knee. My knees is just much of these dead dudes. But man, I've had no problems with this. This right knee is amazing. The left knee, I had a patellite tendon graft and cause I had that one done in 93 or 94. And that one back then, that's the only way they did it, but it was really good.

1:32:12But it took a long time to heal. Like it was a long time before I could kneel down on the ground. Like if I had to kneel down and put my skin on the ground. Cause they take a piece of bone out of your shin and they take a piece of bone out of your kneecap and then they take a slice out of your patellite tendon. They pull it off and they open you up like a fish and they fucking drill it into your shin bone and drill it into your fibula. Love that. Your utibia and your femur rather. Yeah. And it's like wrap it ever. They get it in there and then it's like a year before it feels like you could do anything with it.

1:32:46It took a while before I felt like I really trusted it. But I do have to say I was not as diligent with my rehabilitation back then as I was when I got this one done. With this one, I rehabbed it all myself. I didn't, I went to like one or two of these things. I'm like they're just showing me things already know how to do. I'm like I know what to do. I'm just gonna do this and do it all day. So I was doing body weight squats all day long. And I got it to six months later. I was training again. Full blast. Were you doing any like the BPCs or any of the peptides? There was nothing available back then.

1:33:17Oh, well back then. So this was 2003 that I got this one done. Nice. And this was the patellite tendon. This was the cadaver rather. How do you think the recovery would have worked for us like with all these dings and injuries? Cause I've had a, I'm sure you probably have too. A couple of friends that got surgery. They're actually a doctor, hit them, site injection. And even IV with BPC 1 .7 during the reattachment of a pack or a bicep. Super legit. It's super legit along with TB 500. Yeah. Apparently that combination of those two together is the most effective. Yeah. Super effective. And you know, there's a lot of people that resist that for some strange reason.

1:33:55Why? I don't know. I think, I think there's a bit of ego involved in not knowing something when you're an expert. I find that with, there's a real problem with, unfortunately, some orthopedic surgeons. Aaron Rogers was explaining this to me that his doctors were telling him not to do stem cells after he got his Achilles fixed. He's like, what are you talking about? Like, shut the fuck up. And so of course he did stem cells. And of course he went to ways to well. And of course he was back three months earlier than they thought he could ever be. And you know, there was like some real thought at the end of that season.

1:34:32And then he was probably going to be able to play. Yeah. Everybody's like, this is nuts. Like nobody recovers from this stuff. But he was very smart and he didn't push it too far. Yep. And he'd wait until he followed the brigham and all the stuff. But yes, stem cells work. There's a reason why you have to go down to Tijuana to get the good ones. Because it's, they fucking work. And like anything that works is like, you're not allowed to do it anymore. Biden. It is fucking, really helped the cell. He helped the thing in 91, that coxucker. He really did. I was talking to a strength conditioning professional the other day at the administrative level.

1:35:03We were just talking about different things going on. I said, yes. I said, there's people in my opinion in your world that don't know about BPC 157. He didn't know about BPC. And I'm just like, crazy. And I'm like, okay, I was taking eight years ago. But you know what it is though? It's like they don't continue to learn. That was my point. And then they're in practice all day. They're constantly working on people. Yeah. People are coming in the door. Guess guy blew his ankle out. It's guys got a fucking blown shoulder. Yeah. Yeah. But then I said, the weird part is, is you have a strength conditioning professional.

1:35:37And in some ways, there's more information cutting edge on a podcast from guys that are interested in training. Right. From like the, you know what I'm saying? Hey guys, just open this, the scope a little bit. Like, with this enough of these guys that are super smart and also jacked like these Andrew Juberman guys. Yeah. And super smart guys that are in the body building world. Sure. Super smart guys like Derek from more plates, more things. He's the best example. Because he's just a fucking encyclopedia of data and studies and efficacy and what you're, you know, how you combine things together.

1:36:13And he actually runs a clinic. So he really knows what he's doing. Right. So he get the boots on the ground. He's in real time. Yeah. My doc is Eric Serrano. I don't know if you know Doc Serrano. He's up in, in Columbus. But you know, everyone has gone to him over the last 30 years. But he's one of those dudes. There's like a base. Columbus, Columbus Ohio. That's where Lou was. Exactly. He was Lou's doctor. Ah. So yeah, he was, he was Louie's. He was, you know, you, you go through all professional baseball. It's like, okay, got it tracking. He's one of the rare guys that we went to him to do a podcast.

1:36:45How was that? Oh, it was awesome. Did you go to Bob Evans with him? No, we just, we, we hung out in his gym. Yeah. You know, and he just was introducing me to a bunch of freaks and show me all the stuff that he invented and why invented it. So cool. Louis Simmons. He was the fucking man. He was so awesome. He was so funny. He was such a character. He was telling me about how we got a shoulder blown, got a shoulder replaced. And then immediately when he got back to the gym, they made a max out bench. And I was like, what are you talking about? You need to recover. It's like, don't, they were like, don't be a pussy.

1:37:16Yeah, you have to max out. Yeah. I was there in 2002. And Salooie and his wife Doris, and they would always, you always meet the Bob Evans in the morning. He would eat and went like, do the whole deal. And he was telling me a story about how he had a, he got, he got pissed off and he could, something to his cell phone. And he threw it out the window while he was driving. And then so he, I didn't have a cell phone for a couple of weeks. And then he got to the gym and he missed the lift and he punched his own tooth out, punched himself so hard. He knocked his own tooth out and then took a wire brush that you like cleaned the chalk out of a barbell and smashed himself on the head.

1:37:51You're just pouring his wife. I was like, yeah, Lou was pouring blood and he knocked a tooth out and I'm just thinking, west side was awesome. Holy crap. So I got talking to him and he was like, he had no biceps. Yeah, right, because he blew him out. I just never got it fixed. Yeah, yeah, a lot of those guys, same, yeah, it's wild. But he was like, yeah, those cats would, they'd fight and he goes, we would literally like, is there some, some tuned up dudes in there? And he said that we would just literally kick him out the door if they were fighting on the floor. We would kick him out of the way.

1:38:20So they were out of the way of the monoliths. So we could keep squatting. Like every 30 seconds you're up or 90 seconds, whatever's like, I don't care if you're fighting literally hitting each other with stuff. Move the next guy up. I'm like, this place is wild. They created some fucking antlers. Here's a wild story. So we were there and this drunk chick came in. She was like, this was the old west side. It was like in this little shopping center with the windows were all blacked out and everything was pretty dope. And this drunk chick walked in. And she was like, hi, y 'all working out in here.

1:38:52And she was tuned, man. She was like all sloppy, like legit street person. Right. And I'm like, oh, this is going to go bad. Like, I'm just reading the room, right? Like, there's a lot of estrogen in that room, right? So I'm like, oh, man, this is going to be bad. And he's like, hey, come here, come here, come here. So he puts a weight vest on her and then puts a second weight. So 25, 20 ,000 is 50 pound weight vest and takes her outside, wraps a belt around her waist with a sled and had her walking doing sled pulls back and forth with a weight 50 pounds of weight vest on her shoulders. Drunk, drunk is shit.

1:39:34I'm just like, I was like, watch, I'm like, what? She comes back and he's like, all right, come over here. He puts her on the monolith, two red bands. Maybe just the bar, wasn't a lot of weight on that. And had her doing speed box squats, eight sets of two for speed. It was teaching her how to box squat. She finally stumbles out and just leaves. And like, later on, I'm like, Lou, did you know that girl? I guess, now, I'm like, she was just some random street person and you had her squatting, you guys, shit, have to people in this room were that person a year ago. I'm like, oh, she could be world champion, you know, I don't know.

1:40:09Wow. And I was just like, that's, that's, what a crazy mentality. That stuck with me for so long. He's like, most of these people are broken and they have some addictive thing and something and he goes, if they could channel it into something, that might be the next world champion. Wow. And I don't know if you ever saw her again. Or if I was just there that one day and it stuck with me for 22 years. And I just thought about that. I'm like, he put his money where his mouth was. He was a coach and he wanted to see what could, what could someone do? You know, that's so interesting because one of the guys who trained with Louis was Matt, the immortal brown.

1:40:48Matt, the immortal brown, I know he did some training with him and I've always said that there's something about guys that used to be addicts that have like died and Matt died and it's been a few guys that I know that they came back from, they were the scariest fucking people because they had crossed over and then they realized there's a good addiction, the good addiction is to training. Just be completely addicted to training. And so those are some of the fucking scariest, it was wild. I mean, I knew a lot of those guys from that world and a lot of them were addicted to different stuff and unfortunately they get into training and then if they get out of it, it kind of that addiction might pass them and come back that happens with fighters when they retire.

1:41:30And then also they're generally dealing with some issues mentally, some impacts. You know, so a lot of those guys start drinking, I start doing coke. I always loved how Louie just saw it differently and my dad was the same way. Like he just always say, look for something not of what it is but what it can be. And that would that meant human potential, that meant designs, that meant like application of stuff and it's just like, yeah, that person's whatever but if you push and you tweak and you push and you tweak, there might be something in there that's like super beautiful and awesome but you never know if you just said that's a drunk chick that walked in the gym.

1:42:03Well, it's crazy with him because he's actually done a bunch of times and it worked, right? So this attitude he's developed over time to just accept the fact that this person might come in 16 core's lights deep. Shoot. Just tuned. Just tuned. But in my mind, he trained at West Side and he said, I mean, half the time, he said, I've seen guys bench 700 pounds on acid, like just freaked out of their mind. This is like wild stuff and I'm like, holy cow. That whole world is wild. Yeah, like you had an old, I mean, that's that whole world is so extreme, right? The fighting world, the lifting, the throwing, like dudes are doing some pretty wild stuff.

1:42:45Yeah, well, and whenever you get like these male oriented alpha characters that all get together and they're all budding heads and trying to figure out who's the baddest motherfucker around them, they also develop a culture of like acceptance of certain aspects of life that come like the injuries and pain and suffering and, you know, like wrestlers, they're like bragg on suffering the most. They want to suffer more than anybody. They're like, that's the badge of honor. Is what time do you get up? 430. How was on my 14th mile at 430? You know, like this drag you into deep water. Let's make it worse.

1:43:22That's the part of the culture of wrestling is embracing the grind. That's the whole thing is like being the guy who can push being that camhain's motherfucker that does those 340 mile runs. Shhh. Is it because I think I've read before, is this accurate that the highest winning percentage in UFC were all from the wrestling background? Is that accurate? I'd probably say that's probably accurate. I think if you had a see, if you had to say like, what's the back? I've always said that's the foundation of martial arts because the wrestler can decide where the fight takes place. A wrestler, generally mentally, they're going to be tougher because they went through the hardest thing when they were child.

1:44:01The hardest thing is a child is wrestling. You're starving yourself when you're growing. You're dehydrating yourself before matches. You're training and competing dehydrated. You're in a fucking hot room. You know, it's clashing with other alpha males and you're throwing each other around. It's just the hardest thing. You can slap infections every once in a while. But that skill is so important. The skill to be able to manipulate bodies and take them down. And if you could teach a wrestler, Jiu Jitsu, oh my God, they're so much better at it because they're just so accustomed. It's just they just have to learn a new series of movements to go with this skill set that they already, but they're great at controlling bodies.

1:44:41And just the proximity. Like people aren't good with being all up in people and they're like, yeah, I live here. They live there. And then the other thing is, if you could teach a wrestler how to strike, they have such an advantage because you can't take them down and you're worried about them taking you down. So that opens you up to certain shots. It happens all the time. Where guys are worried about a takedown and they get blasted. Because they're thinking this guy could take me down at any moment and then you get hit. It happens all, it's like another element that they put in that you have to deal with that they don't have to deal with.

1:45:13They're not worried about you taking them down. You're not even gonna try. So they don't, they can be completely relaxed with their takedown defense. So they're like, yeah, it's horrible. I didn't hear the elite wrestler and fucking horrible. I've even seen like elite wrestlers even in business and stuff like that. You could always, it always feels like they're trying to shoot in on you. Right. They're looking for the weakness trying to shoot it or like, this is just kind of in you. Well, they also know that they can. You know, you're walking around knowing that you can pick up any guy you want and dump them on his head.

1:45:41And most likely they have no say in it. Like there's nothing they can do. You don't get a vote. Yeah, man, if you're like, if you're around on a judo black belt and you're wearing a winter coat, you might as well have a hammer right above your head. Cause that guy's just gonna, you don't use that coat and slam you into the concrete. You're basically helpless. Yeah. If you don't know judo and you tangle up with like a real judo black belt, you're gonna fly through the air and you're gonna land on the ground with all of his weight and your weight on top of you. And even if you don't bang your head, your whole body's gonna be out of air.

1:46:17You're not gonna, you don't know how to land. You're gonna land it. Especially when a guy's controlling the smash. Oh, he's gonna shoulder right into you as he land. Boom. You fucked. You fucked. So that guy's gonna look at every person like meat. Yeah. Yeah. I never realized how effective a geechoke was until Hoistgeechoak to me. That was my first ever. I was like, yeah, I'll try a judo, too. He did like a clinic. He's like, come on up for this thing and my buddy is on me trying to do the thing and then I thought Hoistge put me in like the, remember the old thing with like the paper cutters? Oh yeah.

1:46:50Pretty sure that was what he has for a forearm. Like way different. Yeah. My big buddy that's my size, Hoistge is way different than that. It's leverage and technique. And now it's time that you. There's like his arm's made with scissors. It was just like, this is amazing. Like it's so cool to see perfection, right? Yeah, well that's the other thing about coats and jackets or even a hoodie. You could choke someone so easy with a hoodie. Let's get your thumbs in teeth and squeeze the jacket. Yeah, you could choke the shit out of somebody. If you grab somebody with a hoodie. I just drew them in, especially like, I said a leather coat.

1:47:28Like a leather coat or a twin -dress. Yeah, you get a good grip. So what do you got to wear? You got to wear or not? Oh yeah. I got a joke come from that as somebody with a jeans jacket. You got top and bottom denim. Jay Leno, you're in trouble. That jean shirt, that thing's durable. You know what I think durable, right? You want some shit that tears easy. Like you want a shirt that already has cuts in it. Like you're pretty loaded. He should like, be loaded back your shirt, make some cuts in it just in case someone grabs you. Because someone can just grab you a t -shirt. There's actually a Gracie Self Defense thing that was on, that I was looking at the other day.

1:48:04It was a really smart move where this woman was showing that you can grab a hold of someone's t -shirt if you're a woman and you're getting attacked by a man. Just grabbing a hold of their t -shirt and then getting your legs around their neck. Then you're jamming your crotted artery. They're crotted arteries with your thumb while you're holding a t -shirt that squeeze with your legs. You can put a guy out, especially a guy that doesn't know what's happening and doesn't know how to protect himself. I don't know how to do that. That's not it, but it was, she was on her back. It was on YouTube. I tried to move like that one time.

1:48:40I was goofing around with my buddy. We call him the cyborg. He's an absolute monster of a human. And he and I were goofing around and I was on my back and like, and so I kind of like got him the little like, I got like a leg scissors on his head and I grabbed his arm and I'm like, I'm gonna pull his arm off. Like I'm a big strong deadlift. I'm like, I got him. I finally got him. He was 290, 62290 all -apped. Look like Gordon, but like bigger and stronger. And he literally just, I thought he was going out and he kind of went, and woke up. And he picked me up while I was hanging up and then just slammed me down on the ground.

1:49:13Like man, screw this. Yeah, you can't do that. People could do that to people like, no. No one could stand up with a person hanging off them and slam them back around. You got a leg. You got it under the leg. I didn't know that. Yeah, I just got clobbered. You want to see the worst version of that ever? Ram Page Jackson versus Ricardo O 'Rona. Did you ever see that? I'm in pride. Is the worst case scenario of holding on to like a triangle while a guy picks you up? And Ram Page in his prime was a fucking machine. He was so powerful. So he takes this dude, who's 200 plus pounds, hoist him over his head and slam some down the pillow.

1:49:50So look at this. So he's caught in the triangle. Watch how Ram Page does this. Yeah, bro. Yeah, I think it was one of the worst chaos in the history of the sport. I mean, that dude could have definitely could have died. He probably got the worst trauma. Yeah, the worst brain trauma. Did he knee himself in the face too? He, I think Ram Page collided heads with him as well. So it was probably a bunch of shit. Yeah, like all kinds, I think right there is, not like his guts and yeah, his shoulder. But Ram Page's head went into his. This is a crazy slam man. Look at that. Bup -oh. Mine was not nearly as devastating, but it was enough to maybe not want to do that again.

1:50:30That was the worst. And this guy was never the same again. Ricardo O 'Rona was never the same again. That is such a crazy. So that all could have avoided. Like that's not what you do. When you have a triangle, if you see a guy posturing up, you immediately go under and if he's got you in the air, you let go of the fucking triangle. The thing that's holding him in there was him. He's holding himself in there. Yeah, so he was the pivoter. Because sometimes you can keep it, right? Sometimes you can keep a triangle and you get slammed and it just makes the triangle tighter. But you gotta know when you're way up in the air, you gotta let go.

1:51:08You gotta fully let go and then try to sprawl. Something has to happen. You have to disrupt this motion. This thing that's happening. Yeah, turning yourself into an axe. The best way is an underhook. Like as soon as you feel like he starts to stand up, you hook the leg and worst case scenario, you transition to a leg bar, you let go of the triangle, you get control of that leg and you use that leg either to try to submit or sweep him. But you can never hold onto a triangle if the guy's standing up. It's just, if that fucking concrete, you're dead. Your head is pulverized. Yeah, there's bad enough on turf, but I won't do that again.

1:51:43And that was like, you know, there's a little bit of a springiness to the ground because it's in a ring still. And there's probably a certain amount of padding on the surface. How hard are those rings? And I've walked around in them as they, there's a little bit like the UFC has a small amount of foam like a padding. And it's very important really because you know, guys' heads bounce off, and they get head kicked, they fall down, their heads bounce off, they get hit with a big right hand or something, you bounce your head. So you can't have a real hard floor. Yeah. But it's not soft enough where you want, you know, John Jones power slam on you.

1:52:20Nope, not really any day. No days actually. That's crazy. Yeah, it's a, I mean, to be one of those people that make a living doing that, that is a wild way to go. Yeah. What happened where that decided like that was the direction they were going to go? You're like, you know what? I'm going to get the crap beat out of me and and dull out a lot of pain and see how this shakes out. Or do you just kind of like wake up one day and you're in that world? You're like, yeah, pretty good. Well, you're probably a wild person to be able to do that. And you're probably excited by dangerous scary things. And you're probably pretty good at it, which is why you're fighting professionally.

1:52:55Yeah. You know, so you're probably trained in the gym and you realize you're better than most people. And then you know, if you amateur fights and fuck a few people up and go, you know, I think I'm the fucking man. Start believing in him. Yeah, and some of them are right. Yeah. Some of them are John Jones. You figure that out. You figure that out. Every now and then, a guy is correct. Like that's the way you should have went. Yeah, yeah. Definitely. Fucking everybody up. Yeah. Everybody badly. It's okay. You were talking about my first so Tyson. Yeah, that's that's my heavy weight. That's my heavy weight, all time.

1:53:28Like he's the guy that's like, I feel like Tyson in his prime, you have to have him on the Mount Rushmore. You want to have Jack Dempsey. You want to have Joe Frazier. You want, I mean, it's like a lot of guys who are really good. It's hard to say like Muhammad Ali, Joe Lewis, Rocky Marciano. There's a lot of like, for me, the one that you can't remove is Tyson. Right. So there's a bunch of other ones. Lenek Lewis in his prime was fucking amazing. Larry Holmes doesn't get the credit he deserves in his prime. There's a lot of guys who are really good heavyweight champions, but you have to have Tyson.

1:54:01Everything else is negotiable. Tyson has to be there in my mind. Interesting. Yeah. You know, different people disagree. Do you watch other sports, the size fighting sports or combat sports? I watch a little football. Yeah, I've been watching football lately. I enjoy it. It's fun. Pro or college? I watch high school. Yeah, right. I watch college and I watch pro. I went to a NFL game first time this year. Kind of cool. Yeah, so the Jets played the Cowboys down at Dallas. That was wild. It's wild when you see the scale of it. You know, the scale of it. The size you've been reading college games before?

1:54:33A few, a few U .T. Yeah, that was fun. I got to shoot the cannon at U .T. That was fun. Isn't it crazy? Like, have you been keeping up with like the NIL and all the the transfer portals and how that's changed the landscape? I have not. What is that? What is the NIL? NIL is it name, image and likeness. Oh, that, right. The money thing. Yeah, the money thing is crazy. Well, they should have been paying those fucking kids a long ass time ago. They should retroactively pay all those kids. That'll be interesting. They should. Yeah. They should. They were making money off of them. It's crazy how much money they make.

1:55:04The amount of money that's happening now, it's interesting because like it actually, from a couple of my friends that are in that world, it creates a different conversation with the new kids. Because let's say in high school, they're bringing in these recruits and everything like that and everyone is kissing their butt. Hey, man, they're like, hey, we really want you to be here. We want you to be a whatever. Pay me, bitch. And now it's turning into pay me, right? But then the other side of the... I want a Corvette. Oh, that's... Dude, I have friends that tell me that they're athletes who, when they're coming through recruiting trips, say, if there's not a quarter million dollar signing bonus as just a part of the deal, I'm not getting on the plane for the recruiting trip.

1:55:42Like an 18 or 17 year old kid saying that. That's balls. But meanwhile, they're right. You know who else should be doing that? The fucking Olympics. Yeah. Fucking Olympics. They should all say, fuck you pay me. They really should. That's the greatest scam in all of Corvette's sports. Yeah, well now they can now. I mean, the Olympic Committee, but originally it was amateur, which is something. Well, they can. Meanwhile, like, what you mean is like the NBA players can represent the United States and play in the Olympics. That's cute. But what about the swimmers? What about the people? What about the gymnasts?

1:56:16What about the boxers? Those fucking, all those people should get paid. Yeah. Every single one of them. And only, and no one really cares about Olympic athletes, but every four years. Right. Like, buddy, mine won the 2004 shop put Olympics. And he was like, I still have to ask my mom for money. Wow. He's like, because no one cares about the Olympics, but every four years. God. And you're like, you have a degree at Dartmouth. A business degree and you're the Olympic champion. And he was the first athlete to ever eBay himself. So he had a shirt that says this space for rent. And so he would, he like put himself on the Mars.

1:56:54Like kind of like the first 10 Ls. Like, hey, man, I have to make money throwing the steel ball. And I'm 30 something years old. I'm a world champion. And I still have to ask for money every three, every four years or for three. They used to do that with the UFC. Used to be able to have sponsors. So yeah, yeah, anything you want all like condom depot in your shorts. I mean, how about this old days like tank Abbott and all this guy? At least the love watching all that was in college. We like get it paid review and like check it out. Yeah, man. That's the dark days, the early days. Those are those no one knew what was going on.

1:57:27No one really knew what was effective. You saw some people were effective one way. You thought that's the way to go. And like, yeah, it was kind of like when you're in high school, you when you would go sneak out the house to go watch faces of death. Oh, yeah. And it was like, wow, this is like this is cool thing. It's like the UFC like kids will never understand how difficult it was to see fucked up things were a young. Why? Really hard. You know, try hard. You had to like know somebody. Yeah, no, I had to know somebody in the city. Someone someone's some dark warehouse at a copy of some bar in the art Betty video.

1:57:55It's always weird. Yeah. Now it's just like, hey, you rode your bike all around and you like find some weird wood pile. I remember when we were kids, someone had a video. I think it was like a barnyard Betty type video. Like when when I'm ladies have sex with a bunch of animals. And one of us had to watch the door. So if we if we had a video like that, we're playing the basement. One of us had a we had to go up to the top of staircase and wait by the door so that no one could just open the door. And then they open the door. You would pretend like, oh, I was just coming through the door. You know, so like you hold it out of the door so they can't get in.

1:58:31Like, oh, sorry. Oh, sorry. And then the kids downstairs would hear that and they'd pop the tape out and pretend they're, you know, playing a tarry or something. Oh, sorry. But you had to pop that fucking tape out, Quink. Cause the mom caught you down there watching a chick blow a German shepherd. Yeah, that didn't have pan out there. And they were like real grainy like copies of copies. You know, they're like two guys get together with two VCRs and they record tapes. Oh, yeah. Well, the weird you have to get the cables in the back. So was that was that you live in the city growing up? I lived in the suburbs.

1:59:03I lived in Newton, Newton, uh, the suburb of Massachusetts. Okay. Boston. Yeah. Yeah. Did you live in New Jersey at one point? That's where I was born. Oh, yeah. So is my dad. Well, part, uh, hillside. Have you seen all these UFOs in New Jersey lately? No. Yeah. Like over the last few days, there's been this steady stream. They're not UFOs. They're drones. Oh, I did see something. I think you posted something about the drones or something, right? I don't think I did. Somebody did. Um, but a lot of people have been, but they're not moving. In any extraordinary way, they look like drones. They do.

1:59:35It just looks like a bunch of assholes. I think it's fun. Right. Put drones up everywhere. But now there's all this like weird mythology attached to it where like the governor was saying sometimes as soon as you put eyes on them, they take off and, uh, but if I was a UFO though, like if I was an alien and I knew that a bunch of people are trying to be smart asses, yeah, and they're putting these drones in the sky. I'd be like, fun. Perfect time to visit. Oh, yeah. These dipshits won't know the difference. Yeah. He's gonna have to use my cloaking technology. I could just fly over their head and they're gonna assume this is more nonsense.

2:00:07Dude, one of my buddies, he, uh, probably weird to even say like he had a friend that sent him a video of some weird stuff going on in the desert, whatever. And it went through and then he showed it to me and then it just disappeared. And he was like the dude he was talking to said it disappeared. But then like, can you have a file that kind of self -destructs? Because it disappeared on his phone too. He's like, uh, how do they take this, they take this off of my phone? Hmm. I don't know. I've never heard of a file, Jamie, have you ever heard of a video file that self -destructs? Or that someone's like, so I could, mission impossible.

2:00:47Yeah, so one could chirp into it and like, it was wild. Like he, I mean that, like this, this recording will destroy it. Yeah, exactly. In 30 seconds. Yeah. That was wild. I mean, I wondered though, like could they somehow backtrack it where it had been shared? Well, that would be problematic because then they would have access to things on your phone. I doubt that's ever a case. More likely would be they put like a time that someone could watch the video into the video where it's valid. It's probably still fixable if someone still hasn't. Well, this dude took the video and then did it on his phone.

2:01:23And then he said one day he just looked into it, looked in his phone and it was gone. He might be retarded. Well, that could be the case. But my body's like yourself, my phone too. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know, man. Be retarded too. Yeah. It's hard to say. It might be real though. I've never heard of that happening though, which I was assumed that I would have heard of something like that. Yeah. Especially the amount of people that I talk to that are in the info world. I've seen it. Excuse me, a threat on Reddit about a glitch in iOS 17 that might have made some people as videos randomly disappear.

2:01:56Important ones that they wanted. Right. And then they think it's the UFOs. That makes sense. Oh, yeah, this doesn't say anything about that. This is just like, why is this happening? Is happening to anybody else kind of thing? Okay, Google this. Is it possible to make a self -destructing video that only has a certain amount of plays in it? Well, that would be cool. Right. Like, maybe you could code it into the video that once this video plays for, you know, in whatever, 14 minutes. Right. If it's 14 minutes of play, it automatically. It's 17 times. You know, it randomizes. It's, it's, it's Pat.

2:02:32Because it's basically just information, right? Right. Information viewed through a codec. There's have like a site, like a cyclical rate, like this many times that like. Right. Because I know there's certain things like someone will send you something on Instagram and you can watch the video, but then you can't go back and watch it again. Right. Or they send you a voice message and then it just goes away. Yeah. Yeah. That's how Jones likes to roll. He sends you a voice message and they can get you. They go, why? That's probably a really good idea for him. Yeah, smart move. Best not to have a paper trail.

2:03:03I don't even know like how much of that encrypted messaging stuff works. You know, I know when Tucker was saying that he was organizing that meeting with Putin in Russia and that the government called him up because they knew that he was meeting Putin because they had access to his signal. And he was like, what? You have access to it. I didn't know if someone could get into my signal. I thought that was encrypted. Nope. Nope, they can get in there. So it's like how much of this stuff is really, how much of it is really encrypted and protected and how much would they even let you know if they can break it?

2:03:38Why would they even tell you? Well, that's the whole point. It's like, it's exactly what you would say that you couldn't do it. Exactly. Yeah, that's, but that was they, they fucking spilled the beans. Right. So once they spilled the beans, I know a lot of people, including Elon Musk, are questioning signal. Sure. So I talked to someone in the government and I said, what can you handle signal? Like how does someone is as long as the state actor knows the phone number? What's the answer? So all they have to do is know your phone number. So if they know your phone number and you have signal, game over, boys, if you are, you know, I mean, I'm sure it's probably they probably need to ask somebody if they can do it.

2:04:16It's probably not something you just do. But if an agent is like Bert Sorn's acting on old fucking fishy, let's see what he's signaling to his friends. Yeah. And the opportunity to just decide subjectively if that's a thing is. Right. And then whatever you carry in your notes and whatever is in your folders or your photos, they're going to all kinds of ballistics for sure. They've got all these. They're going to wear crap. They're going to wear my dear Stan's. They got dick pics. They got dick pics. All of it. They have your dick pics. It's like there's no way around that anymore. I think that's a myth.

2:04:51The idea that somehow or another you could have some sort of a protection from that happening today. Are you making phone calls? You are. Are you on a network? Are you on Wi -Fi? Are you like, I think you're fucked. Yeah. You would have to think so. Yeah. I mean, if you have to think there's enough back doors and alleged probable causes or however someone wants to spin it, that well that's also how they got Huawei banned from the United States. Because I remember, you know, I'm a bit of a phone nerd. And back in the day, Huawei had the best phones. Their phones were like way more advanced than some of the American Android phones that were coming out.

2:05:31Yeah, man. They had incredible cameras and like big battery life and like crazy zoom possibilities. And I was looking to get this new Huawei phone. Sure. And then Huawei got banned from the United States. And I was like, what? It goes back to anything that's banned, man. It makes you really start questioning. It does. But when they kind of all agree, there was very little pushback that there was real security problems with these phones and not just phones, but network devices, routers, different components that have third party entrants. So it was, they had the capability of accessing information that's being transferred back and forth on a network through these routers.

2:06:18And then I think people are like, hey, why is that in there? Yeah. And then they realize, oh, the Chinese government is in complete cohorts with Huawei. Like if you own a company like Huawei, you're down with the government. You have to be, that's how you stay in business. You can't be some rebel out there operating on your own, making billions of dollars, creating, you know, yeah. Well, you had Mike Ben, was it Ben's on? Yeah, that was a wonderful podcast. Oh, it's a whole leak crap. Yeah, it's, I'm opening. Yeah, I spun that past a couple of my, my buddies. I actually was the same buddy that gave me the Yuri Besmanoff video that I gave you.

2:06:54Oh, that fucking video has changed my mind. Right. Yeah. When you first sent me that, you're the first guy by the way, ladies and gentlemen, because we played that on this podcast like third time. Yeah, we were at your house at the end of the gym. When you played me that, I was like, holy shit. This is exactly what happened. Yeah, I gave it to Jack Carr and Evan Hafer too. There's no way that was a cool, like he just guessed it. Right. Yeah, right. You're like, I'm going to put this next baseball into the, you know, the third aisle up the thing and crack. Wow, that was cool. From the last two.

2:07:26Yeah, you're like, go back and look. So buddy, mine that's in that world, he gave that to me four or five years ago. He told me, he's like, this keeps getting deleted. Yeah, he did. And he kind of gives me the whole briefing on a lot of things deleted from there. Yeah, off YouTube, he's like, they keep taking it down. No, I think really honestly, prior to you and Evan and Jack and guys like that, it was not easy to find. I think you guys just changed the algorithm on it enough. Wow. Which is pretty neat. But that doesn't make any sense because I'm pretty sure we just found it online. He just found it on YouTube.

2:07:56He told me multiple, multiple times he's like, they've taken this down often. Why would someone take it down? I'm not sure. But I know some of my buddies that were in the teams and stuff like that, they were like, oh, I remember seeing this back in 95 when I went through buds. Oh, when I got out, maybe it was green team, but they were in that early, early days. Like, oh, I hadn't seen this video in forever and then they kind of watched it. They were like, oh, my gosh, like you're kind of getting all the background that. But he was giving me, I can't remember where I was going with this, but he was giving me some insight.

2:08:24Oh, about the bends. And it was interesting in that sense. I was like, hey, did you check this out? And he's like, yeah, it's like, it sounds like he's read a couple of my briefings. Yeah. Interesting. Mike Benz, some weird stuff going on. Got crazy recall too. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. He just, no notes, just spitting out all that information right off the top of his head. That's, you've had some amazingly impactful guests on here. Like, I'm not trying to blow you up, but like, I'm sure you know the impact that you've had on the world, which is probably really wild. It's pretty weird. Pretty weird, right?

2:08:58Pretty weird that I didn't even try. That's the weird part. It was all an accident. Like, 100%. Like, I just felt like this is what I should do. I should start a podcast. And then I should keep doing it. Even when it was totally non -profitable for like five years, I was like, yes, I like doing it. Which is keep doing it. That's all the good stuff works. Yeah. It's like you're passionate about it. I want to go do this thing. You know, Evan and I have talked. He's like, hey, I make brown, I make brown water. And I'm like, I make steel rectangles. This weird. I got to know why we decided to do this.

2:09:30But once you figure out a thing that you're really passionate about, then you'll become successful if you just keep following it. Yeah. But the thing about the podcast thing was I managed to keep the same spirit of just doing what I would enjoy doing. Yes. Like, if I could just have conversations with people with no phones and sit and especially if I could get a scientist to sit in here and explain things to me for three hours, I would have always been interested in doing that. But I just, you can't do that. They won't do it. Right. You have to become friends with them. And you can only be friends with so many of them, you know, and then you have to fly to them and sit down with them.

2:10:07You spend with them time. And then you're like, you create a honey trap here. And you're like, hey, I'll bring everyone here and talk to you. As long as you can guarantee other people are going to listen, people want to talk about anything, which is really weird. It's wild. Like, that's the way you can guarantee that you can get them to come. As long as they're going to, other people are going to hear it. Right. So they get sell books and. Yeah, the whole deal. Yeah. And that's great. But it's just genius that I just appreciate the illumination on varied, uh, ideas. Like, I love that there's people on the right, the people from left people, this, like this, hate this, like, that is so refreshing.

2:10:42It's good for all of us. It is. It's good to hear people even that you don't agree with. Of course. Along with a nice, along with a, that's my course. I don't want to argue with anybody and get in fucking screaming matches. There's some people that are, they're like we were talking about earlier that they, that's how they get engagement by constantly getting in these. That's why they have those shows like Pierce Morgan likes to do that. Whereas like four people on the show, they all yell over each other and they're all remote to no one's there. It's like, uh, that sounds horrible. It's horrible.

2:11:10I don't find out nothing. If you could sit down with someone, even if you disagree with them and just let them talk, you could have a conversation. You know, find out why they think the way they do. You don't have to fight them on it. Just like ask them, what is it about this thing? Yeah. Candid and curious, right? Candid as in, I'll actually tell you what I think and curious. I'll actually care what you think. Yeah. And I always try to think the way they think. If someone's talking to me about a certain thing, like I will, you know, people, oh, you'll agree with anybody. I'm like, I kind of will, if I can try to see things through your head and I'll try to steal a minute for you.

2:11:49Like if someone is saying something and I go, okay, so you're saying that, but if it's preposterous, I'll stop it. I'll stop it and go, that doesn't make any sense because of this. Like I can see that you haven't thought this through because, or you didn't know about that or, you know, how could you say this when this is possible? Like how do you, how do you manage those two things? It's so few people will push back with kind of love, right? Because the disagreement doesn't have to mean dismissal. No. And when it does, that's the opposite of love and respect. Yeah. No, I don't like you. Well, that's canceling.

2:12:22Well, especially if people get shouting and argue, you know, it's like there's a way to do it where you can just talk about stuff and not be dismissive of someone. I mean, I see so many people do it where they have their opinion, like Bill Marlux do that, like dismiss something, someone saying like instantaneously, as they're in the middle of explaining it. It's like, it's kind of a sparring thing, you know, you're trying to win rather than trying to just have a conversation. Try to see if the other guy flinches. Yeah, you're shutting down. You're shutting down things that you think are you calling bullshit.

2:12:53It's also a lack of patience, right? Right. Because sometimes you have to have patience to let someone express themselves fully before you disagree, which is really important because sometimes someone will begin to express themselves and I disagree. But then they'll take it around and give me some nuance and some understanding of how they came to their opinion. Then I'll go, okay, okay, so I see how you... At least I see the truth. Yeah. And so it's more important for you for this than it is to acknowledge that. And they're like, yes, I'm like, okay, I understand. So when did you decide that that was...

2:13:26And then I want to go like, I want to know, are you a real thinker or are you a person who has adopted a conglomeration of ideas that comes along with an ideology? So there's really smart people that have done that. And they might not even know they've done that until you corner them. And then you find like... Where did it come? Where's the answer? Occasionally, you know, there's a subject like, make sense of this. You make sense of this. Yeah, follow it upstream. Right. Make sense of this and let's acknowledge what a kid is. I want to know how vulnerable you think children are. First of all, I want to know, do you have any?

2:14:04Second of all, I want to know how malleable and suggestible, like how open to suggestion are children in your eyes. I want to know how... Do you think kids should be able to get tattoos? Do you think kids should be able to get married at five? Do you think kids should... You know what I'm saying? Do you think they should be... What do you think that they can control and not control? Do you even understand children? Or are you sacrificing them and their future, these kids that you don't even know, for your ideology, for your ideological position that's like cult -like? And then you'll find that out about people that think they're intelligent.

2:14:40Until they're confronted with these insurmountable ethical dilemmas. Right. A similar one to, let's say, someone who eats meat but hates hunting. Yes. You could hate... You could not want to do it. Yes. But there's still a killing and a murder at some point and you could either be a part of that or just outsource it and be okay with it. Well, that's a cultural thing too, right? Like, there's a lot of people in the UK that don't like hunting. Yeah. And they eat meat. And, you know, they'll tell you. Like, my wife was having a conversation. She was at dinner with a bunch of people and I was out hunting.

2:15:14And this guy was eating a steak. He's like, that's deplorable. She's like, what do you think that came from? Yeah. This is so stupid. Like, you're literally carving a steak while you're saying it's deplorable that someone's out hunting. Like, we eat those animals. And what is generally, and I've had this conversation in a number of times as well. And generally, if folks are candid, curious and respectful, you could kind of kind of bring them around, right? Yes. Have you had someone that really just dug their heels in or like no? No. No, never really in person. Right. Online, they'll dig their heels into the cows come home.

2:15:44But I feel like most people, this is like talking online sucks. Yep. Most people are good people. I really believe that. Even if they're like trapped in their bullshit and wrapped up in their own head and most people want to be given the chance to be. Yeah. And you can kind of help them along. Yeah. It's kind of help them along. They help each other along. You know, like part of an argument is you. Like, I know that there's arguments that I've been in in my life that I could have avoided. If I was more skillful with conversation. And I know that I have avoided a lot of arguments, especially now as a smarter person than I was when I was younger.

2:16:23I'm better at it. I'm better at just like not biting on some bullshit, passive aggressive stupid thing that some guy says. When I was young, if someone who got passive aggressive with me, I like, hey, you're fucking you. Like, like, let's just go to 10. Where's that going? Let's just go to 10. Yeah. I don't like how you're talking. Like, I'm not going to sit here at this stupid party and pretend you're not a cunt. And you know, there's been many times, you know, I got dragged out of a situation before things got really serious. Yeah, because I'm like, let's just go to 10. You're a piece of shit.

2:16:54Like, I know what you are. Yeah. You're just a shitty person like to throw jabs at people when I'm just trying to be nice. Yeah. And you also know in your pocket, you know, a lot of physical things that could be. That helps. That helps. But it also, it helps that I know that I'm being nice. So if I'm nice to you and you're being a cunt to me and I'm trying to be nice to you again, you're just thinking that you can just get away with this. And that's what I like to go, hey, fuck you. I ain't that guy. And you see that looking at their face like, oh, no. Yeah. Oh, no. You've gone into fuck you land.

2:17:24Yeah. And I will hear her. Yeah. And by the way, emotional pain is something that people think they can get a free slap. They think they could just get off on you and hit you with emotional pain. Like, if we're playing this, let's hurt each other game. How about I just fuck you up? Yeah. Like, how about that? How about I just decide, I'll spend the night in jail. Yeah. How about that? How about fuck you? You know, because like that's what you're doing emotionally. Yes. You're trying to create the abuse of pain. You're absolutely being abusive. Yes. And some people make a habit out of like demeaning people to their face and they think they can get away with it.

2:17:59And it's a really shitty practice. Yes. I do appreciate the people who physically put it into that. I've never really been like, yeah, you know, I'll do what I need to do, right? But I've never been like, I'm going to get like, like, Pat a couple days I'm not proud of because I kind of went ahead and hit that throttle. Yeah. Most of the time it's avoidable. Yeah. But in some days, unfortunately, you're not in the emotional state and sometimes it is avoidable and you don't avoid. Yeah. That's the thing. Yeah. Like sometimes it is avoidable. I'm so much better at that now. When I was 25, I had no, I didn't understand that you don't have to do this.

2:18:36Yeah. I've expressed my emotional immaturity at times. I'm like, yeah, I could really take in that one a different way. You're thankful. You're like, man, glad that one really didn't go sideways because that's also like you could go terrible and some of you get murdered. I mean, things happen and you can't believe what they did. And then all of a sudden someone's dead. That happens every day in America. Oh, I've had a couple close ones that you just kind of everyone walks away and it's like, whoo, because you get like, it's like, what was that movie like? Sherlock Holmes. Remember when you can see the situations and you like pauses it.

2:19:09You can see like, and when you like pauses and you're like, this would happen, this would happen, this would happen. And then you're like, oh, there's a dead guy. Yeah. You're back it up and like glad that didn't happen. Okay, bye. I'm going. Yeah. Just walk away. It's the like you have to learn that and the problem with young guys is, first of all, their brains not fully formed, they're impulsive. They do wild things. And then if they feel that they're being slided, they feel like to be a man because they want to be a man, you have to do something about it. Well, it's the number one question every man has.

2:19:39Every man has the same question. Am I, am I good enough? Right. That's the wounding, right? Right. And every woman goes, her question is, do you see me? It's exactly. Do you see me? And a man says, am I good enough? That's why they're sport. That's why there's fighting. That's why people try to make money. That's why they try to flex on each other. It's the little boy inside all of us going, am I good enough? Yeah. And then there's the people that get past that and then it becomes this ultimate challenge. Like the ultimate challenge of life is the most difficult puzzle to solve. Yes. And you can solve it above and beyond all these other psychopaths.

2:20:17So you're competing with all these other people that are very much like you, but what separates you from them is the work that you put in, discipline, drive, mindset, whatever it is that you can find that gives you that edge to pull ahead with all the, from all these other people that are very, very competitive as well doing the same thing. Right. And then with men, they feed off each other in those environments. They feed off. Like a Westside barbell. Yeah. Like a clock gym. Yeah. And then when you're wondering that and then when someone questions it and publicly questions in front of your boys or front or whatever, it's like, no, I'll show you I'm good enough.

2:20:49I'll do something stupid right now and end up in jail. Especially someone who's just a walking dead man with a mouth. Right. Like someone who knows they can't defend themselves. And so they just feel comfortable doing that publicly because they think they're being protected by society. That's the worst. Yeah. Yeah. This, this actual false state of security like man, we're in the jungle right now. You want me doing that? Or when women think they can do it. When women get mildly with men like don't do. Why? When I was, I think all 16 or 17 years old, I was in high school and there was this kid that moved into the neighborhood.

2:21:21He came from Iran and his family had a lot of money. And so they had this, I think it was in Beacon Hill. I forget where it was, but it was a really nice neighborhood. And this kid had this giant fucking house on this huge lawn. So he decided to have a party. Of course. So this is how he's going to make friends. He just moved here from another country, right? Right. So he has a party and kids from every fucking high school came to this party. And I was at the party with a bunch of my friends and I was walking up the staircase. I'll never forget this. So I'm walking up the staircase and then, you know, so it's like right here in front of me.

2:21:57Well, this is going down. I can't remember what the girl did. She either slapped this guy or she threw a drink in his face. I can't remember which one it was. Some offense. But I remember he uncorked a right hand like Roberto Durand. He stood through a right hand like he knew out of punch. Because I knew that a punch. So I watched him like, Oh, good mechanics. Yeah, right. Really? Just like this. Just blop. Just hit her on the chin. Her head snaps back. A guy catches her. She goes out and then it's bedlam. No. It's bedlam. I mean, people are fighting left and right. There's people fighting in the stairwell.

2:22:39I had to run out. There's piles of guys out on the lawn. It spread like a disease. It was like, how did you decide to hit this guy because of that? It was screaming and then screaming started people screaming at the people screaming, which people were fighting the people that were screaming. It was the wildest thing. It was like a disease ran through the house like that like World War Z. Everybody's like, and I managed to not have any fights. A couple of my friends got in fights. Like one of the better fighters there. I got out of it. But I was never interested in street fighting. I'm like, let me get out of here.

2:23:11I know what this is. This is fucking, I understand danger. I got out there. But I'll never forget that. That girl thought she could hit that guy or do whatever she did. I forget what she thought. I wish I could remember quality kind of all I remember because it's like 30, how many years ago was that? 40 years ago? I said, wow, oh my god. It's 40 years ago. Yeah. So it was like this. Blap. I mean, just fucking, I'll never forget that man. Horrible to laugh at it because she forgot a lot of things that night. She definitely forgot. She might be listening to podcast now. The third grade. Yeah, she's probably like, that's me.

2:23:43My heart, I just don't get a talk. Like for sure, got a broken face. I mean, he hit her so hard and her head snapped back. Just snapped, like she had no idea she was going to get punched by a big guy who knew how to punch. But he was like, hey, fuck you. Like, he just got the wrong guy with like three millers in him. And he just, probably the first time that guy, probably not the first guy he hit a check. Yeah. Because the way he did it was like, he didn't slap her. You know, he didn't slap her. That's a scary one. He could have just slapped her or pushed her or something. You didn't have to KO her.

2:24:16Yeah. But there's women that think that they can just go up to a guy and yell because they're protected by society. There's fucking psychos out there. It just goes back to be nice. Yes. Be nice. Be nice. But there's like, you motherfucker, I'll fucking kill you. Hey, hey, hey. Yeah. I've been backed up a couple of times with that bump, bump, bump on the chest. And it's like, all right, all right, all right. Then you're like backed against a car like at a tailgate or something. You're like, yeah. And when you say don't touch me, it gets, it gets hot. And then it's like, they might just touch you because you said don't touch me.

2:24:52And like, I'm telling you, don't touch me. And then you have to touch them. And then, oh, you're assaulting me. Like, no, no, no, you're still talking. So I haven't assaulted you. Like if I assaulted you, this would be over super quick. Right. So let's not do that. Yep. That happened to me in DC. I was walking with my wife. And it's during when everything was popping off. Oh, big, big time. Oh. Big, big time. Things, people got real, Miley. Real, real. And we're walking through it. And of course, you know, truth be told, I'm walking through. My wife looks like a viking also. And we're walking through DC during the height of everything, height of everything.

2:25:30No mask, because I'm outside and I'm a sovereign individual and screw that. And a whole chattering group of certain population of, you know, all the Santa foot. And so they're, and I just said, I'm not going to stop walking. Please move out of my way. Rob, Rob, you know, F you F this, I'm just, Miley, you did nothing. I literally was walking across and there were 40 yards from me and ran across the street to come yell at me like a bark. They ever seem like a, like a bear or a wild boar. It was like, bade by dogs and they're all like, yeah, we're just walking. And it's like, okay, please. And we're trying to get to my hotel.

2:26:10And there's a cop because they boarded everything off because everything was crazy. It was like the four big groups were all doing the deal that weekend. And I was like, my hotel's right. Are you sorry? I said, sir, do you think I really want to deal with this? Like, like in there, everyone has their cameras out because they're like, big guys are going to smoke somebody, right? And there's a whole deal. And then finally, one actually, one of them was chirping at me. She fell down and tripped over something and I helped her up because this what you do. And then get your hands on. Okay, man, can I please get to my, like, this is a thing.

2:26:42So, and then they played music all night till seven in the morning, right aside of our hotel, just to make sure that no one slept. It was a wonderful time. Fun times. It was a great time. Whatever happened to law and order. Why do people think that was a good thing? There were so many goofy mother fuckers that didn't want people mad at them. So they started yelling out, defund the police. They started getting on board with it. Even Kamala Harris posted defund the police. Like, I mean, defund the police on Twitter. Yeah, like when does this a good idea ever to like kind of cancel? Anyway, there's like, like besides like someone that hurts children, like after that, kind of do what you want to do, right?

2:27:16Well, that's not even a canceling thing. That was just people had decided that there was an enemy out there. I say this that like protests are too much like war. You're on the ground and you're marching around with a bunch of people yelling. You all have a cause and you're all moving as one group. It's too much like war. I think there's some just triggers. That's why mob mentality exists because you got to be able to kill people if some shit's going down if you're at war. Because that's like escalates. Right. There's a mode that people snap into. It's called mob mentality. Why does it exist? It exists because at certain points in history, we have gone to war with other groups of people on the ground.

2:27:54And I think that's built into your psyche. And I think it's just like catching a fish. You know, you catch a fish? Like if no one's ever caught a fish before, you catch like, oh, you get so excited. I think it's because your brain is hardwired to know that that fish is going to feed you. Yes. And that's why it's exciting. And your hardwired to know that if you're yelling and you meet an opposing group, those are the bad people. And you're going looking for people that are opposing groups because you've got power. There's a bunch of other. Yeah. You're a bunch of bullies. You're a little deep. And you find that fucking white guy with the beard and you're like, he's the enemy.

2:28:27It was wild. It was wild. But it was like an open door to this psyche that has always existed. That mob mentality has always been a thing. And if you open that door and you allow it to stay open and you don't do something to close it with long order, you have fucking madness. You have madness. And we had that. We had that on the streets in certain places in this country. For months at a time, it was fucking chaotic. Bonkers. Yeah. It was actually pretty cool in my, and I was saying none of that world was cool. But during my, my town, they started burning stuff and everything like that. And my sheriff, he's a, he's a friend of mine.

2:29:04He's like, yeah, we shut that down fast. It's like, what happened? It's like someone threw a brick. I got center mass with a, with a bean bag period. First time, they go, how long did that take us? We hadn't had a problem since. It's like perfect. He's like, you know, that's kind. It's being kind. Exactly. The bean bag is being kind. Yeah. A severe punishment. Yeah. Really fast, generally trains people pretty quickly. And then it's like, all right, our town went back to being cool. Everyone's fine. Yeah, there's, there's no reason for it. And it was, it's crazy how quickly it all boiled over. And it was all these events happening together at the same time, right?

2:29:37The COVID, the lockdowns, the anger, everybody got real weird because everyone was just locked in their home for months at a time. And then the George Floyd thing and the public outrage and the people on the street. And then people were encouraging it and funding it. There was people that was, there was certain groups that were encouraging it, organizing it and funding it. And they got money from people to do it. And they, they had pallets of bricks that were conveniently located on the street. All that stuff's real. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, we, we, we saw it. It was, it was remarkable to see it in real time.

2:30:08That's why it's crazy. You have a guy like Mike Benz lay out. Right. How it all is going down. Yeah. And you think, oh, it's all organic. People are fed up. Uh, uh, no. No, there's a bunch of people that are profiting off of this. Yes. They want this to take place. They want to be able to push new laws through. They want to be able to grip tighter. Yeah. Titer control on censorship. Titer, the social media companies have to pay their responsible for this. No, no, no, you fucking funded it. You fucking funded it with tax money that was filtered through NGOs. You cock suckers. You guys are a part of this.

2:30:43You want this to happen. Right. That's where everyone's just like everyone just pause. Yeah. Just like pump the brakes. If you feel like, uh, what was that song by Iron Maiden? Uh, I can't remember what his speed's up at the end. Banana, banana, banana, banana, banana, banana, banana, banana, banana, banana, banana, banana, banana, you know, that sort of felt like the last four years, especially during 2020. I was like, oh, this is the end of like paranoid or whatever it was. And it just sped up and you're like, oh, is this how the end of the story goes like as in humanity? It could be. Yeah. I think we got a taste of what's possible.

2:31:13But I also think, I think it was horrible. Anybody who lost someone, anybody where we're all went down. I think it was horrible. Don't get me wrong. But I also think we're lucky. Yes. Because we got to see it. It's horrible if you lost your business. It's horrible. Of course you got forced to get vaccinated. It's horrible. All those things are horrible. But we got to see how many people are fucking cowards. We got to see how many people fold as soon as there are any sort of external pressure from either their surround or how many people got forced into it by their job. We got to see that. And we got to see how there are unscrupulous groups in power that will coerce people to do things that are not scientific.

2:31:55They're not ethical. They're not moral if they can profit off of it. And we got to see that that they will use you as a human fucking ATM machine and they will they will figure out a way to maximize their profits and maximize the control. So now we know. So now we know. So now you can't think that the world is some sort of 1950s movie where the good guys wear the white hats and the bad guys wear the black hats. You got to realize like there's a lot of human interest shit going on. And humans have a certain interest in getting control over money and over people and they do it whenever they can.

2:32:29And if they can do it through the guys of being progressive and kind or if they can do it through the guys of you know, whatever, pull yourself up by your bootstraps like whatever it is. They find a way to rationalize these very specific patterns of behavior that the founding fathers of this country fought against when they created the Bill of Rights and they created the constitution. They did all that knowing that these human nature, these human instincts exist. It'll keep low charting back down to this eventually. It's like hold on. People are people and people are going to do people stuff. And every time they pass something like the Patriot Act or the Patriot Act to they just chip away at that.

2:33:08They're chipping away at that. And it's their job to do that in their mind. Right. It's it shouldn't be because there's not enough oversight of them. That's the problem is like, right. This is the whole concept of the deep state, which was always like such a stupid conspiracy theory for the longest time. People are all worried about the deep state until you are until you like, oh my God. It's real. Oh my God. How did that kid get on that roof? Come on. How did he walk around with a fucking rangefinder? Like we were talking about before rangefinders. Yeah, that's what he had. That's why you use those folks for fucking shooting people.

2:33:41He's not golfing. The whole thing was nuts. The whole thing was nuts and we were all just sitting there going, oh, the deep states real. Like, oh, someone, someone did something here. How did his apartment get professionally scrubbed? Is there, are there a team of people that are actually organizing something like this? Has this happened before? Why won't they release the Kennedy files? He died. How many fucking years ago? 1963. Yeah. How? Why don't that's 61 years ago? How about you release that? Yeah, me or Hey, how about you guys released that? Yeah, or there's maybe a reason. Yeah. Do you think that stuff's good?

2:34:21I mean, do you think 61 years and not a lot of time? That's a good point. Like maybe we'll wait another 60. When it makes makes sense, right? People aren't ready yet. They're not ready yet. I've thought about that. I want to know, right? I want to see behind all the scenes. I want to see the, I want to see the Epstein's, the Diddies, the, the, the, the, the, Cash Patel says first day day one. Let's go. That's what he says. Let's see if they get him in there. What a stud, right? Oh, man, that's what if you are the deep state. You know what he said he wanted to do? He would close Langley and make it a museum of the deep state.

2:34:57Geez. This is the first thing he said he would do and then just reorganize everything and say now go back to chasing criminals. Yeah, stop attacking the fucking citizens. Stop spying on people. You fucking weirdos. I'm so pumped about him and Tulsi and like there's just such an awesome group of people that are just certainly interesting. I mean, it's, I'm even excited about the way Trump is doing interviews now. Like he's doing it. It's like he's become like a wiser person in interviews. Like he does interview with his lady from I think it was NBC. The recent one that he did was over an hour. But even the way he was talking to her, she was saying things.

2:35:32He's like, you know, you would be so much better if you weren't so biased. So he said to her, it's like a kind way of saying. He always had that and he's just so intelligent. He's playing different cards at different times. I think he's realizing that part of the problem is not just the resistance that he faced, but his reaction to the resistance. And he still slips sometimes like he tweets out. I hate Taylor Swift. Oh my gosh. Which I thought was hilarious. I couldn't stop laughing when I saw that. I just love irrational tweeters. Right. I mean, at what point just like the incoming president going to just just don't go on somebody?

2:36:08Well, he wasn't winning yet. I think he was freaking out. I honestly think he was freaking out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because they had they were doing a sia up. And they were all the sudden making it seem like comma, Harris was the dream that we'd always been looking for. And they were tricking people who recognized that she was an unpopular vice president just three weeks ago. And everybody was all a sudden on board. That would spun around fast. Jesus, it was wild to watch. But that was another thing. Like if you can learn from it, look, we got through it. It didn't work, but you should learn that the government will organize to do that to protect their position of power.

2:36:45Because here's what's up, the people that are in power. And we're not even saying they're evil. I'm not saying anything bad about them, but the people in the administration that they're currently, they're all going to lose their jobs. OK, or they keep their jobs. So if they can keep their jobs, what is what's the way we keep our job? The way we keep our jobs, we present her as the best option possible. Even if they don't think that's true, they have a vested interest. You're talking about thousands of people that are in control of these very organizations that were going after social media. And we're getting them to take down factual information because it was dangerous to their narrative.

2:37:21So they have already shown that they don't have ethics. They have already shown that they don't give a fuck about freedom of speech in the First Amendment. What they want is to keep their fucking job and keep power. And also not getting in trouble for some of the shit they did was really illegal. Which we wouldn't even know about if Elon didn't buy Twitter. Yeah, I mean, I agree. I think the Elon buy on Twitter was like that. It's a game changer. A game changer. The fork in the road for civilization. Yeah, it's wild to think. Mark Andreessen has said there's two forks in the road. There's one Elon buys Twitter and two Trump turns his head and doesn't get shot.

2:37:56Those are the two. Yeah, those if those two things don't happen, who fucking knows where we are? I don't disagree. And you look at those both scenarios are both like one in a million. Like how would a the Trump like Trump turns his head like that's wild. But then like how would a guy like Elon exist? First of all, in our lifetime. Right. What are the odds? What are the odds, right? That has the vehicle of Twitter or you know, and all the things line up. Not just as the vehicle has so much fuck you money. Right. It is willing to blow $44 billion on something that's worth $200 billion maybe. So it or rather 20 billion maybe.

2:38:37So one of the things that like this is narrative like he's such a bad businessman. Twitter is worth $20 billion less than when he purchased it. No, no, no, it was never worth that much. He overpaid for it. He overpaid for it on purpose. Yeah, knowingly. Yeah, knowingly. He just wanted to take control of this fucking thing that has always been so important to us, which is the first amendment. Yes. Here's my favorite. People keep saying, I keep seeing this when people go over to Blue Sky. They keep saying what Elon's done is highlight right wing voices and accentuate right and Twitter is overrun by right wing now.

2:39:14No, no, no, no. This is actually representative of the real country, which is 5050. This is what you never had before because conservative voices were always censored. So now conservative voices and progressive voices coexist and the progressive voices who are the babies don't like it because now they have people that think completely different than them and they don't, they can't stop them. They're used to silence them. You used to not be able to say anything about certain things. You would get kicked off and now you could fully express yourself. Sure. And you're finding out there's people you agree with.

2:39:50There's people you disagree with. That is the world. The world is not some fucked up echo chamber where if you say, you know, a man is never a woman, you get banned for life. That happened to my friend Megan Murphy. She got banned for life because she said a man is never a woman, which is biologically true. But they were like, no, that's transphobic for life. For life. For life forever. Bye. So they don't want any narrative contrary to what they have accepted as doctrine. And that's what's so fucked up. Remaining dogmatic in the face of alternate information and pushed, pushed by the government.

2:40:30This is what's really important. And again, that's where you kind of look back and go, if something is being pushed by anyone, follow the money, follow the track like, why? So they're doing it under the guise of being progressive. So this is why they think it's worth doing. It's like if you can allow the government to censor you under the guise of them being on the good side, then then you're lost because then you've bought into this nonsense. And you have, if you just looked at it objectively, you have people that are still supporting the military industrial complex, still supporting overthrowing democratically elected governments and other countries, still the same shit that you hated about the right and that same government, you've let them into your home and you let them control this most important platform of free speech on the world.

2:41:16Because you think they're doing it for your side, which is good. It's a good thing. People have their drone bombing people in Yemen. They don't give a fuck about you. This is so stupid. They're just trying to stay in power and they knew that they were going to lose power of that Hunter Biden laptop got out. They're like, we're fucked. This could cost us 10 million votes. And the wild part is, I guess, because it's after the fact, but it doesn't seem like that whole thing really, really changed the scoreboard. And maybe I can be a Hunter Biden laptop. I think it did. I think it did. I don't think enough people were talking about it.

2:41:49I didn't know if they weren't, if they, well, first of all, where do people find out things? Most people are not finding out things to the newspaper. They're finding out things through social means. And if you can block it on social media, they don't find out about it. Of course, there's so many things I talk to people about that's like kind of in our world, like just everyone knows this stuff. And I'll talk to people just on the street, whatever. They have no idea. Yeah, most people don't have any idea. And that's where I started going, oh, there's different narratives being spun to different algorithmic groups.

2:42:17Because we're all in the Truman show, our own little Truman show. And we all think that we know what's going on. And I'm like, hey guys, we all have our different scoreboard somehow. Let's put up. So like, let's just question the scoreboard for a minute and learn how to communicate with people you disagree with. And this is the problem with these people that wanted all the right wing voices banned from Twitter. Like, hey guys, that's bad for you. It's bad for you. Yes. And it's bad for your, your own objectivity, your own understanding of the world. And you need to, even if someone's wildly incorrect, if they're wildly wrong, like you need to be able to know that people do think that way.

2:42:56It's good for you. Yeah, make a good point. And like, let's listen. Yeah. And I enjoy talking to people from all over and like much like yourself. And I stupidly got into some, some DMs with like people just like hit me up. And they're like, hey, then I'll just like, well, I'll ride the ride. Yeah. And I'll ask questions and this and that and the other. But it was very illuminating like, oh, wow. You're looking at a totally different scoreboard, a totally different game clock, a whole different thing. And it, it makes me at least question myself and go, well, maybe I'm watching. I'm the crazy one.

2:43:26Maybe I'm, no, they're just a cowboys fan. They're a cowboys fan. The cowboys can do it all wrong. Right. And you're like, fuck you. I like the Raiders. Like whatever it is. Show you guys. That's what it is. It's teams for people who don't believe in sports. Right. And that's politics for a lot of those fuckers. A lot of those fuckers are not into sports. And they're a competition. I've always been super reluctant to the whole team thing in the first place because when I stopped playing baseball and I started fighting, one of the reasons why I did it was like, I didn't like that little Billy can drop the ball and I'm a fucking loser.

2:43:58I get it. I didn't like that. I get it. I like to rely on myself. Like I never played a team sport. The most relying on myself to me was like fighting. I was like, we have the same weight. We, there's no trickery. You're three to one go. You know, are you ready? Are you ready? Go. It was like so simple to me. Like this is what I'm looking for. This is like competition that makes sense to me. Yeah. And this idea of like joining a group of people and all of their opinions I have to agree with. Like that's horrendous to me. Like that. Like what are the odds? They're going to be right. What are they even in fighting?

2:44:33So many people are so wrong in their ideas. Like there's guys in the gym that I'll hear them giving advice. Like you don't need submission. You want to learn submission defense. Like what are you talking about? Don't tell him that. Like you should shut the fuck up. Like in this guy's a train fighter in a gym. He's telling people you just need submission defense. Like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You need to learn how to do it so you can even defend it correctly. Just even know what's out there. That's like listening to the other side. Right. Just like, hey, tell me why you believe X, Y and Z that I think is absurd.

2:45:03But yeah, give me. Oh, wow. Okay. Well, now I realize you're crazy, but at least I know. It's also like who are you training with where you don't think that works? Why don't you go training with Fabrice over doom and then tell me you should learn your guard. You don't know what you're talking about. You're talking nonsense. You're saying you're saying something from this very narrow minded perspective. You can only learn so many skills. No, you could you should learn the whole thing. And if you can't learn the whole thing, you're in the wrong game because these kids that are coming up, guarantee you that.

2:45:35I watch some of these kids that are coming up in the amateur ranks and kids that are fighting in the UK and they're going to make their way in the UFC. These mother fuckers are complete and they're like 18. So these kids that are fighting in one FC, they're like 17, 18 years old and they're complete. They can do everything. Like you better learn how to do everything. Yeah, you're going to meet that guy. Yeah, that guy's out there. And otherwise you're in the wrong game. And if you're giving advice saying you don't need to learn that. Oh, that's a good like if you're ever giving advice to someone doesn't need to expand their horizons.

2:46:05That's just wrong. Right, but imagine if that guy's your coach and imagine you have a team and everyone the team has to believe that submission is bullshit. Be build against him. And then you get trapped with all these meatheads that things just all about ground and pound and then you get triangle every weekend. I'm tired of getting triangle. Well, it's the same tribalism and strength conditioning too. Either guy get guys are like, oh, all the powerlifting moves. That's all you got to do. Benzquat, Benzquat, and it's like all the other guys at Olympic lift. I got a snatch, Clean and Jerk and everything else is stupid.

2:46:34You're like, okay, guys, like an ice to joke. I was like, I can look at your shoes and I could tell you what tribe you're in and what music you probably what shoes are one of the shoes that you look at. Convers all stars. A lot of guys lift with those because there will be West. That's a hard core. It's a hard core. Dude, he's going to run all. He's going to work run call a converse. He's going to box squat. I'm asking this to my dad. Why does it in converse making all star with a wider toe box? You would because I try to lift in converse. My teeth are stupid. They're hard. They're hard to do.

2:47:02I don't know why toe box. I think it's a Vivo barefoot like that. But converse are good because they're flat. There's not a lot of cushion there. It depends on what you're doing, right? If you're like more of a wide stance sumo or box squat because your feet, your heels aren't elevated. It's actually a better situation for squatting. Well, if you're Olympic lifter, you're going to be closer. So you want a heels elevated with a flexible toe. And that's so so you look and you're like, okay, like this is what you're doing. And then I kind of laugh. Like the guys with the cross trainers are usually just dudes that do a whole bunch of crap.

2:47:33And they're doing plyos and dancing around and whatever. But there's always like these little tribal things. Like if you're this person you're wearing chucks and you're listening to Pantera. Yeah. It's just part of the gig. And it's always funny. It's like, all right. Some people think you have to lift heavy. You don't live heavy. You're a pussy. Oh, or you have to use it like eight thousand decibels to lift heavy. Yeah. And slap your fucking thighs and scream. I've danced that dance before. I've done this. I've done the. I've done this. Smelling of course. Oh, we two smogs all to here. Let's go.

2:48:05Yeah. It's real. Let's go.

2:48:11Is it good one? Rough. It's probably better than what I had back. It's a good one. And it's not even the fresh. Yeah. It's not even fresh. That's words. That's jujube mufus. Yeah. Yeah. We were a, um, an unlicensed. A promoter of this brand. Yeah, I know. Yeah, we used to do the little capsules and break them. That's a whole different animal. Yeah, that's real. That's a whole jar of it. Yeah, it's potent. The fumes that come out are so strong. When you have a sealed bag, you could smell it on the outside of the bag. And when you open the bag, you got a sealed bottle. Just like ears leading. Just the smell from the opening the bag is rough.

2:48:49Yeah. No, I just. What does it do? Does that really help you if you ever tried to lift before that? And then just snap the central nervous system. It's kind of like, you know, when you're passed out, right? Does it make you a little stronger, you think? More mad. More mad. More mad. I mean, that's good. On big, big gross motor movements, squats, deadless. I used to call like deadless or just how mad you are. They used to have the strongest man competitions all the time on ESPN. Well, those dudes were like holding on to cars, all the cars and the ramps. Oh, so cross. Yeah, the big stones and Atlas stones.

2:49:23Oh, yeah. It was fun. Yeah, watch them all the time in the 90s. And then actually my dad was a 1980 at the Playboy Club. He was with Bill Casemire when he did the silver dollar deadlift. It was what's the silver dollar? He had like 900 something pounds of these like clear boxes. And they were filled with silver dollars. Oh, wow. Super cool. And so there's like an iconic lift and, you know, pops is like hanging out with those cats. And it's funny because there's like a whole picture of him and pretty sure. I mean, he was obviously training that I think he was partying pretty hard too. Straight up of a river ripper and I was like, man, the 80s are awesome.

2:49:58Like he looked like Magnum PI. It was awesome. Yeah, they were just learning things. Oh, man, the pioneer day is basically. He's so cool. You always knew that if you're watching a strongest man, the dude's name was Magnus. He was gonna fuck things up. Yeah, yeah. It's a Magnus. Magnus and a Samuel sent if there's some sons involved. You know, one of those guys is fighting MMAs, but fighting at Marius Puginowski. Oh, I remember Marius. Yeah, he went from being a strong man to being like a real fine, really good MMA fighter. I can see that in the beginning. He was getting fucked up. But he tried to dive in right away.

2:50:32Like he tried to fight. God, he fought some good fighters like right away. When Marius was at the height because we used to do a lot of a lot with the Arnold's from the classic. That's my gosh, he fought Tim Silvia like really early on. Like when Tim, yeah, so he fought Tim Silvia and his third profile and he got the fuck beat. None of them. Like that was just never a butter bean. He beat butter bean. He lost the James Thompson and he beat James Thompson. Oh, well, no contest. It says. Yeah, what a stud. Fought Bob sat 1000 Bob saples like taking kind of my dives. My my buddy used to train with Bob.

2:51:13Holes Gracie beat holds Gracie. He knocked whole Gracie out. Yeah, so he's kind of like a bunch of like legit MMA fights. Yeah, Puginowski was like one of the first guys ever saw that was that big that had like vascular lats. So we were in the backstage and it was kind of weird because like he was considerably bigger the year than before. I think even taller too. I was like, this guy was just like, what did he get taller? That's why I was questioning. I don't remember him being taller. That's my height. That was really good. That taller. He's a mother fucker. Yeah, he was backstage and everyone was like big, big, but it was like Marys isn't a whole different category.

2:51:53He's a tank. See if you can find him now though. He slimmed down considerably. He still looks fucking huge. But as an MMA fighter now, he's, yeah, see there. Click on that picture. Not the other one. He's still terrifying. What about it right above it? Yeah, but what year's that? I don't know. Oh, because it's blurry. Does it say that it's 22 years old? He knows him too. Okay, see if you can find some footage of him actually fighting. Maybe there's some, I'm sure he's got some high. There he is right there on his knees. Oh, here we go. So he's still stiff, but he's got good technique and he's got a lot of power.

2:52:31Yeah, look at the muscles on the back of his neck. He looks like when those bucks turn the rut. Yeah, but at least like he's he's throwing correctly. Hands up high and this is all technical work here. Well, it's like Brian Shaw has been doing a little bit of sparring with Derek Wolf. Oh, Jesus. How terrible is that? What is he way? 390? I don't know. I mean, I know he was up to 440 something at one point. My dad is actually who got him in a strong way. He came by our booth at 18 years old and my dad was like, Hey, you're really strong. You should like get into this. Yeah, he should be on another planet.

2:53:06You're too big. He is too big for this planet. Yeah, he was probably 240. That makes me believe in the Anoriochi. Right. There's actually giants that are like, we're 100%. How'd you get so big? Those dudes. You remember Cleve Dean? You ever remember that guy? So he was an old, they called him like a pig farmer. He was one of the original world strongest man, but he was the arm wrestling champion. And he was like, all this old like we're like 440 pound, just giant farmer. There he goes. Yeah, that cat. Oh, why is that poor little fellow arm wrestling? I mean, look how big that human is. Jesus Christ.

2:53:41Look at his hand. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. Look at that photo. That's big daddy. Goodridge. It was MMA fighter. Look at that. The hand holding the table in the front. Look at this. That's wild, right? Yeah. If you could teach that guy to throw a jab, you fuck a lot of people up. I would like to see a fight between him and Andre the giant. Oh God. That would be an awesome. Definitely wouldn't be long. Right. Right. But you ever meet Andre? No, I did not. That would be cool. Yeah, I would like to have met him. I've been out of it. I met Hulk Hogan twice. Did you? I met him once when he was super tall.

2:54:16And then, well, I met him multiple times. But I met him once when he's super tall. And then now he's just like regular big. Really? Yeah, because he's lost like five or six inches of height for his back. Oh, he's just compressed. His back is all like fused. His whole back is fused. He's so fucked. How many surgeries did he say? Jamie? Some crazy amount of backs. Really? Yeah, his whole back is fucked. Like you walked to the cane. It's rough. And it was because of 25 in the last 10 years. 25 backs. So he just lost all these. He has these hips, shoulders, face. Abs. Oh, you've, I'm sure you've met Stallone before, right?

2:54:57Yeah. Have y 'all just talked like random old weird stuff? No, I didn't get chance to talk to him very much. I interviewed him once for, I think it was Spike TV. When I was doing the UFC thing. I interviewed him. He was fun. He is why he's very similar to you. And then so like while like remembers everything from like those eras of stuff and you know, Gunner Peterson. So I was at Gunner's gym in LA and Stallone was in there. I was like, oh, that's a freaking Stallone. Like I'm a kid of the 80s. And I was like, hey, you know, would you mind? He sat down for 45 minutes. Oh, wow. And we just talk like, but he mentioned Cleve Dean.

2:55:35Like he remembered like all the arm wrestlers, the boxers, like historian of the human performance world. It was like, oh, this is so cool. I figured you guys had to like have nerded out about it. Did you have you ever paid attention to the old catch wrestling guys? No, what's that? Okay, catch wrestling was catch as catch can, which is what they used to call it. I think one of them was the one they were in England. Okay. When they came over to America, it was called cat late. What it was was basically wrestling with submissions. And there was certain rules like you could pin a guy or you could submit him and they can tap.

2:56:11And there was a few guys that were legendary for their strength and conditioning routines. No way. Yeah, yeah. Josh Barnett learned under Carl Gotch and Gotch was like famous for having like this unbelievable gauntlet of strength and conditioning work that you had to be able to get through before you even trained you. Really? Yeah, like he went over to Japan and Gotch trained a lot of guys like there's a lot of catch wrestling influence. Well, when you go back to the early days of catchers and like go back, go farmer burns because farmer burns was like one of the, what is this? What are we watching here?

2:56:48What is catch as catch can? So these guys, was that what happened? He's there. So it was back up for a second. So yeah, Hackensmith. Yeah. So he's like one of the fathers of strength conditioning. Makes sense because a lot of these Carl Gotch and Hackensmith were duking it out at Kamiski Park and they would have wrestling matches, but they were real matches. Wow. And then somewhere along the line they started doing carnival matches and then these carnival matches they had regular people that they would find and they would like have predetermined outcomes. Then it became pro wrestling and that's where pro wrestling was given birth to.

2:57:29Right. It was out of this necessity to kind of rig the matches. Right. But you're getting the Wahoo chop. See, these are kind of enthusiasts that are doing it now like in a modern setting. But the, the guys who really know the stuff like Josh Barnett has tapped out some legit Brazilian Jiu -Jitsu black belts in competition with catch wrestling techniques. It's like Camuras, Amerikanas. That's cool. They call, they call that a double wrist lock though. They have like different terminology for some of the same moves. But Farmer Burns was this guy that was, he was so legendary with his strength and conditioning that he would hang from a tree.

2:58:07He would literally like hang himself. Like his neck. His neck was so built up and he was a small guy. It was like 160 pounds. But he was so jacked and he literally had like a pit bull neck. There's, there's photos of him where he would do this stunt. Where he would hang by the neck in front of crowds. Right. Look at him. That's him. Oh, wow. Okay. That's Farmer Burns. Okay. Probably very similar to the mighty Adam if you've ever heard of him. But you know how fucking strong your neck has to be and not just hang sometimes. Hang like all the time. Look at his neck. That's amazing. Look at his fucking neck.

2:58:43But he knew that, you know, if your neck is weak, your body's weak, your core is weak. If someone color ties you and you got a neck like that, you can resist it and you could work your shit. Yeah. Anything that hangs out of your t -shirt, you better train. There was a bunch of those guys back in those days that just had these incredible strength and conditioning programs. And they used a lot of things like steel maces. Like Carl gotcha was, see if you can find Carl gotch strength and conditioning routine. Because even like as an older man when he was teaching people stuff, he would show how he maneuver these, you know, these big fucking faces.

2:59:19It was like super impressive stuff. Yeah, just, but it's maneuvering something that mystery listing it. All that functional strength stuff, he would have those guys do 500 body weight squats every day, every day. That's cool. So here's him back then. Oh, God. And a lot of it was like Hindu pushups. Look how flexible he was for a big fucking giant dude. Yeah. Like super flexible. So they realized that, you know, like we were talking about technique is very important, but also strength. Look at the size of his fucking thighs, dude. Look at the neck. And so he had make these guys do these crazy wrestlers bridges and look at how you could do that.

3:00:00Like support yourself and pull yourself back up like that. So they're kind of like in resist against necks. Yeah. So these guys would have these unbelievable, grueling physical sessions and then, then they do their technique. Wow. So they would attempt to, I guess be a pre fatigue and so you'd like. Well, also you just had to be in phenomenal shape because in wrestling, you know, that's the first thing that goes. You must have ridiculous conditioning to be an elite wrestler. Look at the size of his fucking legs, dude. So Carl gotch was just like super famous for this. He's in Japan here teaching these guys.

3:00:38And obviously this is black and white. It's just a long time ago. Yeah. Have you ever seen the, um, it's a, who is he training here? Does it say who he's working with? And Oki, and that's a no key. Oh, wow. Of course, a no key fought Muhammad Ali. Oh, okay. You ever see that fight? No. Oh my God. It was like some crazy scam fight where a no key just, he's standing on his face, dropped to his back. Yeah, work his neck. So he's lifting him up with his face. Yeah. Good job. Carl gotcha. He's on the round. Yeah, that's obvious. I'll build your chin. So a no key had this fight with Muhammad Ali and Muhammad Ali is trying to punch him.

3:01:16And a no key just goes to his back and kicks his legs. So he's a fuck Muhammad Ali's legs up to like they were really fucked up for quite a while. Really after that. Yeah. So this is what they did. He just kicked his knees and kicked his legs and Ali's like, what the fuck? And it's in Japan and they're paying him a ton of money to do it. So the referee has to separate him and the referee is Judo Jean Lebel. No way. Yeah. So Judo Jean Lebel is the referee and a no key is just lying on his back kicking him. And he's kicking him with our groundhouse kicks like look at this. So he's fucking Ali's legs up man.

3:01:51That's boss. When you're a guy who makes his living off his footwork, which was Ali. Like this was super dangerous. Look, he's getting him in a leg lock. So obviously this wasn't boxing. No, it was some weird hybrid fight that you know, I think Ali just needed money and they talked him into doing this. What we get today is that sort of like what this was going on. Just crazy exhibition real fights that are happening. Well, sort of, but this was real. A no key was really trying to hurt him. He really did kick the shit out of his legs and Ali really see if you can find any articles on Ali's legs after the a no key about that's what I think he really fucked his legs up because he didn't know how to check kicks.

3:02:30He didn't know what to even do and all of a sudden this guy's on his back, roundhouse kicking his legs and stomping in his knees. Yeah. So who knows if his knees got hyper extended towards menistice like who knows what the fuck happened now? Geez. Have you ever seen there's an old Polish documentary this them training in the 1970s and they're doing all that kind of crazy stuff. I mean, two blood throwing logs and I said he has blood clots in the leg. Where's the say that nearly ended Ali's career? When I before I clicked on it, it said it in the like the little senses. Finally, the 15th round they called it a draw.

3:03:08Wow. Ali is bleeding from the legs. He gets an infection in his legs and he almost has to have an amputation. Holy shit extended staying on hospital was the best case scenario coming out of the fight. Wow. So Muhammad Ali suffering two blood clots and an infection in his leg from a no key's vicious grounded kicks according to the sweet science. Wow. Wow. Wow. When he finally did so look at this. So he said he continued his tour of Asia despite this competing in exhibition matches in South Korea and the Philippines before returning to the United States. When he finally did get back to the US, Ali needed to stay in Los Angeles hospital for multiple weeks to recover from injuries sustained in the a no key fight.

3:03:54Holy shit man. He put him on ice man. They were concerned Ali's injuries could even be life threatening. Well, that's staff infection. He was bleeding from the legs got an infection is legs almost had to have an amputation. Bro, staff infections are fucking terrible. Yeah, yeah, about to twice twice about staff had a blood clot it both times had a blood clot one time. I got jammed up smoke my ankle and it was like didn't think much of it. It felt like just kind of weird. It's got hot got swollen. I'm competing all over the world. And I'm like, yeah, it kind of feels weird. And the doctors like, hey man, you need to get that checked up.

3:04:31Of course jump back on a plane when across the country. And they said that I had a blood clot from my knee to my hip. Oh, shit. Yeah. So it was blocking off the blood. It's blocking off the end of the my calf was a giant. And what do they do about that? I just started taking blood thinners and stuff and so which was cool. But you can't get cut. Couldn't get cut, which is kind of funny because I got on the blood thinners and I just pulled alligator tag like a couple days before. So I told I told the doctor. I was like, he's like, don't do anything to get your cut. I was like, well, I'm going to alligator hunting tonight.

3:05:01And he's like, I was like, no, no, seriously. He's like, no, you bleed out if you get bit. I'm like, yeah, but I probably won't bleed out. So I remember like in the middle of the night, the swamp, given myself shots of whatever that stuff was in my stomach. And oh, my God, it was I'm not very smart. So how long do you have to take the blood thinners for? I took them long for about six to eight months. Whoa, because I started on the shots and then I went to like the warfront tabs and they had to keep checking me, keep checking me because they had to let it all break out. And so I'd have to once a month get it ultra sounded and there's no better way.

3:05:34And they pulled that out of there or something. I thought it was a teaser. You know, that's crazy. It's crazy. So I was at Christmas party a couple months later and my doctor saw me and he was like, hey, he's had a couple of beers in him. So he's like, hey, he's like, you're going to do you or you're one of your descendants are going to do something special for this world. I'm like, what do you mean? And he's like, he's like, you know where that blood clot should have been? I go, where? And you just tap me on the chest. He's like, right there. He goes, no way you shouldn't have died on that one.

3:06:03I go, really? He goes, you heated it. You iced it. You massage it. You flew. You trained. He goes, you did everything if you were trying to commit suicide by blood clot for months. He goes, how it didn't travel? I have no idea. Whoa. And when someone tells you that, you're like, well, that's cool. I guess things are going to go awesome for a while. Or you just got lucky. All right. Yeah. And then what happened my, my lower leg basically it like they said it grew another vein. So it grew a bypass around it. No. So it all the swelling started going down and they're like, yeah, you one of your minute like minimized veins or smaller veins actually grew in capacity and just worked this way around.

3:06:43They're like the human body will do that. I'm like, so it just worked his way around the bypass. What would have happened though if you didn't get that vein diluted with the blood thinners or that blood clot something to kick loose? I mean, it was right at my hip. It doesn't go away. Body doesn't absorb it ever. I mean, if the, what if the hematocrit or whatever the blood, the thickness of the blood was still of that. If it ever broke loose, he's like, it had gone to your heart, your head, had been a stroke or heart attack. And you know, but it's weird like and it was just an ankle injury. An ankle smoked it and it's like, okay, you know, I'll be fine.

3:07:17Start walking it off and what screwed me is the next day, and that was all black and blue the whole deal, right? I'm walking, walking, walking, everything's not, did not find sucked. And I had to go on a business trip and I was like, let me go check and make sure it's not like broken. That I have to get it like actually fixed. I went to the doctor and they're like, hey, you got to mobilize this thing. And I'd been walking for a week. And so they wrapped it up and mobilized it. And I remember I was on a plane. I was sleeping and it felt like someone lit a fire in my calf. And I was like, what was that?

3:07:51And I went to my hotel room and I filled the trash can up with ice. And I just dumped my leg in there to cool my leg down. And that was like in May. And I competed at the Hammer World Championships all the way to Labor Day. And I was in San Francisco and I'm like, something's weird. I pulled down my knee sleeve and one of the docs was there and he's like, what is going on with your leg? I'm like, I think I pulled a hamstring or something's like, nah, you didn't. And so I came back. Oh my God. At South Carolina sports medicine and he got me in right away. And he's like, dude, you got a big ass blood clot and like, you got to get this square away now.

3:08:27Holy imagine if he didn't do that. Imagine you just just die. You just been like, Hey, I'm one day you would have just done. I would have been a 30 year old, really healthy guy that just keeled over. And so it's like that kind of hits you. And that was that was honestly kind of the end of my competitive sports world because I started realizing like all I cared about was winning. And all I care about was training and winning. And I like I for went social relationships, uh, being smart with my body and all this stuff because I was like, no, I'm going to win worlds. I'm going to go do this. I'm going to be top blood, whatever.

3:09:04And it was just like drive, drive, drive. And I was like, man, I didn't see this very obvious thing that could and should have killed me. It's like, I need to grow up like I need to like refocus how I'm looking at these things. And so I had to mature and just like, okay, I've competed for 15 or 20 years, whatever was at that point. It's like maybe take a pop, pop the brakes for a second and just go like, am I making good choices for my family? Good choices for my business, people that rely on me because if, you know, cool and all things, but avert just kills over, right? You know, that's not optimal for really anyone.

3:09:40It's interesting how you can get completely caught up in one goal to the point where you don't see anything else in life. And you just miss out on a giant chunk of life. But if you want to be the best at something, it's kind of the trade off, the trade off. The trade off. That's the trade off. Yeah, I've talked about like the the rabbit hole guy versus the 90 % guy. And like the 90 % guy, which I think I've kind of turned into. Like if I train for something and get into something, I've generally found if I really care about it, I could be as good as 90 % of the world at it, like a lot of different things.

3:10:17Right. But if you're the guy that wants to go down there to be the best, the goat, you have to go down so farther around the rabbit hole and forsake all other things. Yeah. To where you lose sight of of reality. By the way, you could still not make it and you could still not make it. Yeah, you could be in the same way, class as John Jones. Right. And you're just like I picked the wrong year. It'll be alive, right? Yeah, there's Mike Tyson 1986. Whoops. Yeah. You want to be a heavyweight boxer. Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the weird part is like you could be the rabbit hole guy and go so far down and lose sight of life.

3:10:53Mm -hmm. And still be the number three guy ever. Yeah. And you know, and yeah, kind of like use like the Yoda, like the day go by forest. Like that's where people went to get all the forest. Like they don't write books about the 90 % guy. Right. They write books about the weirdo that lived in the forest. There's a little green man that knew the force. However, though, that guy might be miserable. Might be miserable, man. Yeah. I've seen it a lot. Yeah. You got to know when to stop. Yeah. It gets fun to do in the beginning, but you got to know when to stop. I mean, I would say you're probably as good or better than 90 plus percent of the human population at fighting.

3:11:28Probably. Probably. Yeah. You're probably better at 90 % of the human population at shooting a bow. Probably. Yeah. Probably. Right. And so you start looking at things. Oh, the things everyone believe I'm organ. There's a long road. It's a long road. And long road. Yeah. Long ass road. And like, if you want to beat Gordon Ryan, you're probably never going to catch him because he's already still doing it. Yeah. And he's not doing archery and he's not doing a podcast. And he's not doing a thing. Exactly. And then so like I've had to kind of went to this thing. I was like, do I want to be a 90 % guy that enjoys semi -balance in my life and is really passionate about three or four or five things and be really, really good.

3:12:05Or do I want to throw all my chips in? And the probability is I won't be the goat. Right. Especially if it's a competitive thing. Where it gets we're real tricky with some people as if maybe it's a thing that's not a competitive thing and you can keep doing it. Yes. Like my friend Gary Clark, Jr. When he records albums, he goes crazy and he locks himself in the studio and he's there for like fucking 12 hours like every day. And it drives family nuts. He's just like constantly working on his music because to him, like, he wants to be all in. Yes. Like that's what that's where he lives. That's where he creates his great music when he's all in and you could sacrifice all the other things in your life.

3:12:49You're not going to work out. You're not going to go on trips. You're not going to all you're doing is just whatever that thing. Maybe it's painting, whatever it may be. It's writing books, whatever it is. You're all in and all those beautiful. I don't know if I'm that guy. You don't have to be. You know, and I saw how to look at myself. In the greater, you know, if you're looking at the universe, if you look at the greater picture of everything, it's not really important what you do here in this life. But for you, it is. Correct. And the problem is if you're compelled to try to be number one and you don't really chase it, you're always going to have that thing in the back of your head.

3:13:28I never really went for it. Yes. At least you went for it for a long time. And that's the thing. Like that, I think is the best way. Go for something and then but no when to stop. That's where it was. Yeah. Don't be a seven year old dude out there in the Olympics throwing a hammer. Please don't. Please don't. No, you're the only guy who ever threw the hammer. Gosh, well, actually, one of my mentors, Judd Logan. So this dude made four Olympic teams and the hammer and then got out of it. And he was a coach. And then every time that he would hit a 50 year, 55 year, 60 year, he would train for three or four months, break the all time world record in that way.

3:14:06At that age class and he would go off again for five years. Good Lord. And he would just come back and he would do it again and just shatter the world record and he would come back and he'd do it. And he just did that up until pretty much when he passed. Did he keep training the entire time? Like how did he be able to come back? And he was very genetically gifted and he would he would just he was a coach. So he was always doing it. Oh, okay. And then he would get serious. But then he would get serious for the last little bit. And all of his kids would come out of this guy's coach. And I mean, he was just a gosh.

3:14:35At the end, like when he was like 70, how far away was he from guys who were 30? He knocked me out of the Olympic trial finals in 2004 and he was 40. Gosh, he was probably 45, 46. He was like a little bit younger than me now, but I was 27 and in my prime. Wow. And and he would that would have been his six Olympic trials. And you're just like, but it's Judd, right? Like he's a mythical Bill Braski creature. Like he's he's Judd and he's like, dang it. Yeah. Judd's going to figure out a way to figure out a way and he just generally his age class world records that he holds. He went 50, 55 and 60 and then he passed away a couple of years ago.

3:15:22Actually, he got had cancer and then he had some COVID, COVID complications and sucked, man. I mean, you talk about a guy that's just that statue, ask like best conversationalist, like poured into all these kids and stuff. And he's like, he's the coach you always wanted to have. You know, and you're just like, but things happen. It's interesting when you watch the way different people live their life because you could see benefits and you could see where it would be a detriment to the rest of your life and it allows us to look through these mythical creatures like that guy, these John Jones type characters, these Carl Gatches and go, but is that what I want to do?

3:16:02Correct. You should know what you want to do. Don't get tricked into doing something you don't want to do because there's people out there that really want to do that. And if you don't really want to do that, you're never going to beat them anyway. Ever. Ever. You're already most likely not going to. Right. If you're not really sure, you're dead in the water. One foot in. Guess what bitch? You're going to get that foot's going to be snatched up by a crocodile. One foot in the grave and one in a roller skate. Yeah, you can't you can't compete with a really obsessed talented person. If you're not really obsessed and talented.

3:16:35And the weird part is is when you you look at yourself and kind of question that. Like am I a 90 % guy? And some people aren't either. Some people are like, I don't care what happens. Man, I'd be average and that just sounds horrible, right? Yeah, that doesn't sound like you're going to get anywhere and you're not going to be interesting. Not in the least. Yeah, that's that's the problem. Like you're not going to attract other interesting people because I'm not going to want to be around you. Right. And the biggest part. That's really funny. Well, that's helpful. Yeah. The biggest part about being interesting is being interested.

3:17:01Right. You know, ask a lot of questions. Be interesting. Yeah. Like, yeah. That's where I think one of your superpowers, besides you have a steel trap for a brain. You've recalled things that we've talked about. Like I was like, I didn't know he was listening to that. That was pretty impressive. But the thing is when you come to that like, am I a rabbit hole guy? Am I a 90 % guy? Am I impending those are the only two choices? Like the other ones to screw those. But when you kind of like really look at like, have you ever seen like where your line really is? My line, your line. Like when like you're like, I will go this far, but that's as far as I'll go.

3:17:41Right. Like down that rabbit hole to whatever that is or whatever stress or whatever that may be. And it's weird. I hadn't done it. And in recent like, I had an experience. I was like, okay, there's my line. Okay. That's that's what what did you do? I was in Africa and and and I was hunting Kate Buffalo, which is the most dangerous thing. The kills or rifle rifle, but still it is one of those things. You get in there close and it was like, go with boat. Oh, you could die. Yeah. You died. It was pretty hairy. It kills more people and everyone. We have an amazing. It's they're actually awesome. We did the interloins that night.

3:18:17Yeah. In Namibia, it was fantastic. And that cool part about that is we donated the meat to the local village and they were super stoked. Wild part is after we gutted it, there's like, you know, 400 pounds of guts on a buffalo. And I'm like, are you all going to like truck this out to the desert or out to the place and like let the hyenas and I'm like, no, the villagers are taken. I was like, the guts. And they said, yeah, no, like there will be a party tonight. No, no running water, hearts, lungs, liver, stomach, you know, guts. And they go, they will be so excited to get that. And so that was a, for me, I go, oh, we think we understand poverty.

3:18:56We think we understand in this country like what not having. We're like, oh, yeah, I didn't have a whatever. Like no, this village is stoked to get 400 pounds of guts off a cape buffalo that's been laying in the woods dead for the last 10 hours. Really? They were pumped like old guts, old guts, old hot guts. And we put a tarp over it. So before we could get back out there to get the bowl out of the, you know, out of the jungle or whatever would be called. So it didn't get super hot, but shut a big black 2 ,000 pound animal. What are they doing with the guts? How are they eating it? They said they'll, they'll wash out all the fluids or all the guts, shit and everything else.

3:19:36And they'll put it on the grill and fry it and do all this like they said protein does not go to waste in Africa. At all. So I'm like, you guys are going to, of course, eat a heart, but they're like, yeah, they're eating heart, lungs, liver, kidneys, like anything. What does lungs taste like? Boy, I don't know. I don't know if I want to know. I've always thought about it. Yeah, because like when you open up an elk, you look at it like, can you eat this? What does this taste like? Do you eat heart? I've tried. I love heart. I mean, liver, the liver and I eat the heart. Yeah. But you know, it seems like lungs are, no, I've never heard anybody.

3:20:12And then stomach and stomach line. I guess that's what, what haggis is, right? It's like the haggis lungs and stuff. You know what I know a lot of guys do? They take the call fat from there. And then they chop up meat and then they'll wrap it in the call fat and put it on the grill. Renella did that. Yeah, they did. They did the grill good season it and then wrap it in call fat and then slice it open. We ate the inner lungs and they were really good, but they were talking about how the, the villagers out there, they're like, yeah, all this meat that these hunters get, like it all goes to the villages.

3:20:42I'm thinking people understand like, well, how much that changes the game. So when you say your line, what did you mean by that? Well, they had another, another opportunity to do a lion hunt. Oh, yeah, I'm not interested. And that was my line. It was like, yeah, for multiple reasons. Well, first of all, you're not going to eat it. Right. You could, I mean, I know dudes eat mountain lions delicious. Mountain lion is actually really good according to everybody that I know that's eating it. They're not lying. Yeah, there's people that are iffy on bear. I like joy bear the rivets. Yeah, they're not a good.

3:21:14Yeah, but the reality of lion is, I don't think anybody's out there eating African lions. Yeah, I, right. And they're just a multitude. I mean, they're big. I mean, I got nothing against the lion to start with. They're too cool. They're cool, but they're, they're big. They're scary. They hide really well. They're really fast. They're dope. There's a lot of stuff. They didn't exist. You'd be pumped. They've, if you like if somebody put one of those in a movie, but like what a cool awesome. Yeah, yeah. So it's just like, okay, like for multitude of reasons, like I'm, I'm a hunter guy. Enjoy it. It's like, okay, not that one.

3:21:44Okay. And then not this and then you start looking at even training. You're like, hey, I'll do this, but I won't do that. Right. And I don't want to shoot anything on a mock and eat. I'm not interested in that. I'm not interested in going to hunt something that's inedible. I just don't get it. I get how people want to do it. But I feel like the same about fishing. I kind of want to catch stuff that you can't eat. Yeah, you fish a good bit, don't you? Yeah. I love fish your favorite thing to fish. I mean, if I really have the time and I don't, it would be like salmon fishing in a river. That's some of the most fun because they're so big and they're so strong.

3:22:20And then what they jump and there's something about rivers like oceans cool. I love ocean fishing, but it's like less personal. There's something about being on a small boat on a river and you hook a salmon. You see it jump like my friend Ari and I went up to Anchorage a few years back. When we did a show, we did some salmon fishing. It was really fun. And then I've done a lot of trout fishing. I love bass fishing. Yeah, bass fishing is always fun. Top water. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's just getting late summer. Watch them smash that. That's the best big frog. It's fun. It's fun. You've ever done a, probably would be a bad idea for you, but I put a green light under my dock in my house.

3:23:05Oh, wow. Dude, cheat code. Oh, and they all come to it. Coolest thing. Oh, yeah. It's in the spring and you know, February through March, April. And then right now they're happened again. The Stripe Basel school under it. Oh, whoa. And it's like, you know, you're catching four to 15 pound fish. Every night every night. And so I'll sit up at the house and I'll. Yeah, no, seriously, so I'll be with the wife and she will have a glass of wine. It's like, all right, we'll go to bed. And I was like, well, I'm gonna go fish. She's like, you're going fishing now. So I'll be back. Don't worry. And because you only get like two or three casts before they blow off the light.

3:23:40But you're going to catch two or three fish every night on the first two or three casts. Oh, wow, which is awesome. That's a great way to get food. Yeah. No, so you're going to catch a seven or eight pound striper, got him throw him an ice and then do it. So I would literally fish, catch my two or three fish. And sometimes I got one of those fly fishing for him. So you catch like a 10 pound striper on a fly rod, which is badass. Dude, I went to Mexico once and we went Mahi Mahi fishing. And then they cooked it within an hour of us catching it. I was like, oh my God, this is so much better than any fish I've ever had before.

3:24:13And then you realize that the more time it waits after it's dead, it goes to supermarkets, it's on a show. You lose all that. You lose it. The flavor of them right when they pull out, this is the best fish I've ever had in my life. It's incredible. It was so delicious. Yeah. Yeah, that's the best. You need to get one of those green lights underdog sounds like fun. Oh, man, deep glow is the one. I'll send you the link for it. It's super easy to do. Mine kicks on right before dark. Oh, nice. Or if you get up early because they had a long as time to school on it. And so they're like everything silent.

3:24:47You go out there and smash a couple of sun comes up. It's great. Oh, that's a good move. No, it's the. And then it is a kid's too. Because it makes you actually a bad fisherman because after that, you're just like, I don't feel like going out. I'll just catch him tonight. Right. And then everyone starts like marking your spots. It's like the guys out here that hunt over deer feeders. Yeah. Yeah, it works. It does work. It works. But they'll tell you it's like, well, we hunt. Yeah, it's kind of like farming. Yeah, it's fun. Yeah, it's just different. Yeah, it's not elk. No, it's definitely when you're sitting down the whole day waiting, eating chips.

3:25:23It's good. It's a good time to check or catch up with emails, talk to your friends. Yeah. That's the, there's a lot of that like the ground blind guys to sit and ground blinds all day. Yeah. It's a totally different day this morning. Yeah, it's fun. I do. Yeah, I enjoyed it. It was all this fantastic. It's a great way to pig hunt. Oh, yeah. You know, I stuck one two nights ago. The thing about pigs out here too is like they actually have to hunt them. Yes. So like you're you're actually doing a service to the environment by getting food. Yeah. And if you get a good butcher that can turn them into sausage, it's fucking fantastic.

3:25:56Yeah, my actually my little boy, he killed his first pig last week. Uh, he's eight years old. What was it like when you ate it? It was awesome. We did it for Thanksgiving when he was like, wow, he's so super cool. So we yanked the backstraps out. We, uh, I, I, uh, marinated in Coke for like six, uh, 36 hours. Coca -Cola. Coca -Cola. Yeah, kind of broke it down. I learned that from Jen Rivet. So she would do bear with like Dr. Pepper. No kidding. Yeah. And they didn't know how to cook some bears. I mean, you know, that work, you know. So we did that and then like made a kind of butter and all this kind of cool.

3:26:30It's kind of kind of drizzly deal. Rapt it in bacon, rap pork and bacon. And then put on the grill is freaking awesome. Do you know that guy? He's a cook. He's on YouTube. What is his name? Googa, G -U -G -A, Googa Foods. He's always cooking steak like different ways to cook steak. But the other way he did it the other day was he marinated it and buttermilk for like a week. What? Yeah, took a steak marinating and buttermilk for a week. And like when he pulled the steak out, he gets to see like the buttermilk was breaking the steak down. That's a Googa Foods. That dude. See if you can find his buttermilk steak one.

3:27:07Oh, he's cooked it. Oh, he's a breast -gating Coca -Cola. This guy is every human way possible to cook a steak. This guy's done it. What's your secret way to cook a steak? I am a reverse -ear guy. Same. Yeah, I got taught that by Chad from Whiskey Bent barbecue. He says that the best way, particularly for wild game, without a doubt, it's the best way for wild game. Take it. And so here it is with buttermilk. So he did it one for 24 hours. And he did one of them where he sat in the buttermilk for a week. And he said it was sensational. Maybe you want to try. He'll look at that. Yeah, buttermilk just pulled.

3:27:48We did that with ducks afterwards and pulls out a lot of stuff out there. Yeah, this guy knows how to cook some focus steak. Yeah, let's do it. My way is I like to use the either a trager or the best way, honestly, if I have the time is I use an offset grill with actual hardwood. Sure. So I'll cook, you know, get some live oak in there. And I'll get it up to about 250 degrees. And then I'll put the steaks in there with meat, meat or thermometer. And I get it internally up to about 120. Yeah. And then either I see it on a cast iron pan or I also have one of those infrared things. What are those called again?

3:28:26Fuck, they sent it to me. I should shout them out. I know who Sean Baker uses them all the time, but it's like a tray. Sean's awesome. It's right. Yeah, he's great. And it runs on gas and she just slide it in there and it's like an overhead grill. What is it called? Auto wild grill. That's it. Auto wild grill. How about Sean being a freak for eating a bunch of meat and being a giant? 70 years old. He's fucking throwing and saying, wait around, no TRT, no nothing. I remember him from the throes days. Oh, do you really? I used to compete. I used to be a big fucking dude. He's a monster. And he's very smart, you know, and anybody who says you can't only eat meat.

3:29:05You need to pay attention to him because that's all he eats. And he looks super fucking healthy. And he's doing Jiu -Jitsu and training and, you know, he's older than me. Yeah, he was a, he spoke at Somershock last year and came in and then he was deadlift him with everyone. He pulled like a six something deadlift and then like 400 for 25 reps or something like that. And he's just like, hey, I'm going to go have another steak. I'm like, and he kind of want it. He steaks all day long. It's all he eats. He doesn't take vitamins. I don't think. I know you've done carnivore. I was actually, I actually called Sean about it because I was like, all right, I need to like give this a whirl, but it's worth it.

3:29:40It's worth doing. Yeah, it's legit. Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't do it all the time. You know, I'll eat pasta if I feel like it. All of vegetables if I feel like, but I would say 90 % of my food is meat. Yeah. Meter eggs. Meter eggs. I think that's the most nutrient dense food. My body reacts better when I'm not running on carbohydrates or running on ketones or, you know, when your body processes protein and turns it into glucose, which is like just more regulated for me. For me, you know, you do whatever you want, but I would say try it. If you're a person that eats meat, I would say give it a shot.

3:30:16Just give it a month, one month. I did one time. I lost 12 pounds. I felt fucking great at all this energy. And I was like, Oh, okay, I'm poisoning myself. I'm like limiting my limiting my performance, at least my mental performance. Right. Yeah, I started getting on it a month or two ago, just a bit. I was like, I give it a shot. I was eating a ton of venison. But gosh, I love blackberries. Blackberries and cottage cheese, I think are like the weirdest thing that I just, I could eat it. I don't think there's anything wrong with fruit. Yeah. That's like Paul Sash. I eat fruit. So what Paul does is he incorporates fruit, honey and raw dairy with meat.

3:30:53Okay. And then Sean just eats meat. Yeah. You know, but I can't imagine an argument where fruit's bad for you. I would say don't eat all the fruit. Right. That's the problem. I get a couple oranges or have a couple bananas or a bowl of blueberries with some yogurt. Why is that bad? It can't be bad. It can't be bad. No, they're good for you. They're filled with vitamins. They taste good. It's like it's also it's enjoyable to eat a piece of melon. It tastes good. It's fun. I, again, I'm not trying to be the goat at eating blueberries. I think the number one thing is don't eat bullshit. And when you go on a carnivore diet, you are automatically cutting out a lot of bullshit.

3:31:30You're cutting out a lot of like enriched wheat and processed fucking grains and all this bullshit. And you're cutting out pesticides that might be on your your shit. There's a lot of things you're cutting out when you're just eating steak. Yeah. Yeah. Do you eat a lot of white tail or no? Yeah. Sure. Yeah. I mean, if I get one, I have one in the freezer now. 19 elk a year. Yeah. Two. But I got a, I got two white tails last year. I turned them into sausages and yeah. I, you know, cooked the backstrap and butter and garlic. Oh, backstrap and butter and garlic. That's one that I a lot of times I just like to cook on a cast iron pan.

3:32:10Yes. Especially white tail. There's something about. Yeah, white tail tenderloins with butter and garlic. That is hard to beat. That's my kids favorite food. So hard to beat. This salt, garlic, butter, pepper. Oh, so stupid. Oh, my God. So good. My son and I will eat like easily a full loin like you feel fantastic. It's unbelievable. You feel like you feel the vitamins in the meat, you know, it's like that's what an animal is supposed to make you feel like when you eat it. Why tell gets a like a bad news? Oh, just a white tail. I mean, white tails are great. People are silly. Yeah, they are. Well, people are so silly when it comes to I know people don't even eat their elk.

3:32:49They donate their elk. They go elk hunting and then they donate it to the true. A lot of work for they just like to hunt. Which I mean, I guess it's okay because you're providing people with free food and it doesn't go to waste, but it's the best food in the world. And you're not eating it. Yeah, the best. It seems so crazy to me now. Yeah. You know, I cook up every week. I cook up like a bunch of elk meat, a bunch of different ways. And then I have it in the fridge. So that's my meal. I saw that. Do you eat it cold with hot sauce? Is that what I was going to do? I was going to take a plate of hot plate, put some meat on there, dump some hot sauce on the plate and just dip it in the hot sauce and eat cold hot sauce.

3:33:26Any specific? Well, I like it hot. I actually have my own little collaboration that I did with senior Lechuga. It's three different hot sauces. One of them comes from my friend, Andrew, a half face blades. He had one. It was so good that I said, can I include that one? Because I'm doing a collaboration with me in agreement. So it's like it has the half -legged face blades logo on as well. That's with sun dried peppers. I saw that. Tell you what all the stuff is. Go to the senior Lechuga. I made my son. I got Andy to make me a half face blade. For me, my dad and my two boys. So they all matching.

3:34:02And the goal of it was you either carry your dads or sons or your brothers' knife. So we all switched. Oh, that's good. And I cut my my son who's eight years old now. I cut his umbilical cord with his knife, which is, yeah, which is weird. I sent that in. That's heavy. Yeah, it was awesome. I rubbed his first drop of blood into the handle. Give him that knife. So heirloom tomatoes, winter truffle and reburts. Now we're talking. Yeah, that's Andy's. And that one. Fuck and rules. But the other ones rule to the Habanera, earn chili, Paprika that's a fucking banger, and but these are hot hot hot. I bought these now senior lechu got calm sweetened lechu got hot sauce calm.

3:34:40Awesome. Have you ever done a deal like if you can't I'm not like a hot hob. Yes. It's tasty. It's tasty. It's gonna fuck you up if you're not ready. It's real like that. Yeah, it's real. Like he, that guy makes hot sauce. It's got repers in it. It's legit. It kicks your ass. I sweat. My kids make fun of me because you know, bald. So like when I sweat, it's pouring down my face. They're like, what is wrong with you? I'm a sweater. How better? Have you ever done a deer leg like the flip flop style? Have you ever seen the, what do you mean? Annie flip flop guy. I have to cook it for you sometime.

3:35:16So bad ass. So you get a deer leg with a shank still on it. Super hot grill. Put it on the coals. Like well, the grill is like hot as shit. Like 1100 degrees like cooking right in the blast. So he has this special sauce and his granddad, I believe started it. It's this special sauce that's like the way to flip, flip, flip, flip. Best way to grill venison. All right, let me see what you got. Yeah, so you basically get this sauce. You mix it with wine. You paint it with a rosemary brush. You salt and pepper it and then you flip it. You just put it down on the grill. 30 seconds. Okay. While you're cooking that side, you're painting the other side, salt and pepper in it.

3:36:03You flip it, you shave the first quarter inch. Ah. And then so that size, so the long as it takes you to shave the first quarter inch, repaint it, re salt and pepper it and then you flip it. And so when you're in it, you're going to consume an entire deer leg in the next hour and a half and you're in it. Oh, you know what that's like? That's like Brazilian steakhouse. Exactly. Like a chewhotter. Boom, boom, boom. So we'll do it at parties. And then like you get a couple dudes, get your boys and you're all drinking suburban. Oh, look at that. And just slice it. You slice it and it's good, man. That looks sensational.

3:36:36It's ridiculous. Oh my god. He taught me how to do it. And I've actually gone to a couple of events and like helped him out. But I've cooked him at birthday parties and that's a great idea. It's so dope. You know what I'm going to do? I'm supposed to hunt with Rinella in March. Maybe we'll try that. Yeah. If you want me to know, I'll freaking cook one for you. I'm sure you can do that with any other wild game too. Yeah, we've done it with sheep. We've done elk is kind of a monster. Well, it's a pig leg. Yeah. But if you have a smaller sort of that is, that's the, that's the move and now you'll paint it.

3:37:07And then you'll salt pepper in it. Dig as knife like that so you don't burn your knuckles. That looks fucking great. It's insane. And what is in the sauce again? He won't tell me exactly, but it's. What the fuck? Come on, Andy, get with it. He won't tell you. But it's, it's all kinds of. So there it is. Two bottles of private reserve are flagship sauce. Oh, it's the sauce. It's the sauce. He won't tell you what's in the sauce. One bottle of red wine, cavity or zinfin del work, depending on if you're non -binary. Salt and pepper to taste. One quarter cup to one half bottle of rosemary infused olive oil.

3:37:43But that's a big gap. Quarter cup to a half bottle. It's like a glug glug glug. Yeah, drink bourbon. Three to four loaves of French bread. Several sprigs of fresh rosemary. It's awesome. Sounds pretty fucking good. Dude, it's. Bert, I think we did like three hours and 20 minutes. How long have you done? Up, more? Three, three and a half? Three thirds. Let's know having hay for, but. Dude, time to smooth out. That's super fun. It was a lot of fun, man. Thank you very much. Thanks for your awesome equipment too. Thanks. I tell everybody you outfitted my gym at home. It's fucking incredible. Thanks, man.

3:38:12Keeps me from going nuts. It's the best. I love all your equipment. It's fucking so fantastic. You know what I use like almost every day is that Frankenhyper? Yeah. That thing is so versatile. That I feel in better. Oh, it's so great. It's such a good device because you can do reverse hypers. You can do back extensions. You can do sit -ups off of it. You can do so many different things off of it. Well, I have a new module coming. We're relaunching it. So if you want, bring your old one here and I'll put the new one in your house. What are you going to do? What is the... It has some assisted and resisted abilities.

3:38:44So you could do some... If you're not quite as strong, you're going to come back return to play. So there's some different stuff that you could do with it. Oh, okay. It's cool. You're very innovative, man. Your stuff is really cool. That means a lot. And you've also outfitted the whole UFC PI center. Go there, it's all sort of shit. It's cool, when I try it, man. Whenever I go to gym and I see sore neck, it makes me feel happy. It's cool. I appreciate it. I'll be honest, it makes me feel really happy when I see you wear sore neck shirts. It's like, man, that's dope. Like I appreciate that. My pleasure, brother.

3:39:14Thank you. All right, website, sorenext .com. Soarenext .com. There is the UFC PI. That's all sorenext equipment. Social media, what's your Instagram? I'm Bert Soren. All right, and there's the new machine X factor that we just got today here at the studio. All right, my brother. Thanks very much. Thank you, Jeff. All right, bye, buddy.