#2243 - Julian Lennon

33:51And I met this guy who said, who's a line producer, a film producer. And he said, you know, do you have your intermonica before I said, no, I've never even thought about it really. And he said, he said, do you like Grand Prix? I said, not really a kind of Grand Prix kind of guy. He said, well, listen, if you got nothing to do this weekend after, you know, we saw the film and the premiere. Yeah, why don't you come down? I've got an apartment. I've got an extra room. I know the town inside out, you know. And I was thinking, oh, what am I going to do? Go back to LA and be numb again. And so I literally went down to Monaco the next day.

34:41And he just showed me around and we went to this very famous restaurant and famous corner called the Rascas corner on the Grand Prix circuit. And it's literally where you're having a prawn cocktail and there's a car coming at you at about 180 miles an hour with just a chicken wire fence in front of your face. Not going far away. I mean, directly in front of you. I mean, the car could be... So this is it right here? Yeah. That's not the Rascas corner. That's the Lowe's corner. Rascas corner is very, very famous little spot. There it is. Yeah, that's it. So you'd be behind the chicken wire fence.

35:25This is a kind of modern version of it. But that's even more protection than it used to have. And you'd have a bit of lunch there and they would... And that became... That was the hotspot in Monaco for years and years. There were three brothers that owned it. Real troublemakers. And it was a blast. But... So you had the car... So I went, all right, I'm into this. And... So I spent the summer down there. And I used to have a little bungalow on Mulholland and Coldwater. And I had a caretaker there because I had a dog at the time. And I just said, hi, Tim. Pack it up, sell the house. I'm not coming back.

36:15And I didn't go back. Did you take your dog? The dog actually died before I... Oh. Yeah, sadly. It was getting on. But... But yes. So it's like it. Moving on my... Yeah, that was it. Yeah, I just put everything in storage. I rented this kind of... What could be seen as a Miami Vice kind of apartment? On the 30th floor. It just had marble and a mirrored wall with no furniture. And so I bought a couch off of the floor of a store called Habitat because it would take six weeks to order. And I had nothing. And so I bought a couch. I bought a TV, even though there was no English TV back then. This is 30 years ago.

37:14And I just had a trunk to put the TV on. And occasionally you get American movies. And a mattress on the floor. I lived like that for 10 years. And just... And just was really stupid. Did you enjoy it? I was just stupid. Did you enjoy it? I had to... I've had to... Well, I've had three major... Well, no, four. It's like the Spanish Inquisition Four major incidents. Now, I mean, London back in the day used to be a great place to party and enjoy. And then I moved to New York for a few years. Early in my career in my early 20s. But I almost... I think I almost died there with the party that went on and the clubs back in that...

37:59That... That... That... The heyday then. And it was Celebrity Central, you know. With the likes of... At the limelight with Alice Cooper and a few other fruit cakes. And then I really did feel like I was... You know, I could have... I could have... It's gone off the rails. Yeah, yeah. Easily. I was bored the line. I enjoyed it too much. And then I went out to LA and a friend of mine had a convertible and we just drove across Mulholland down to Malibu. And I went, Ah, this is gorgeous. What the hell am I doing? That's how I moved to LA. I packed up and moved. And that's... I did exactly the same thing I found a place to live.

38:46And I just, you know, was there until I could get myself situated. I think I met you in LA in 1993. In 1993. That's a good possibility. That would have been mid to end of my term out there. I was doing something for MTV. And you were one of the first celebrities that I met. You, I met Rico Suave and a couple of people. Shut the front door. Yes, yeah, because... Yeah, I was, yeah, early in on the MTV stuff that the label I was with was pushing whatever, you know, throw me on whatever was available. I was with this woman who was an executive at MTV and she was taking me around and showing me LA.

39:31You know, I'd never been in LA before. And well, I'd been once for martial arts competition when I was young.

39:41Here was... You were at the front door about to get in. And I was like, hold your shit, you're going to be like, what? Oh, where? No, I don't, I remember very little about it. It was I with some fruit cakes, I'm sure I was. I don't remember. I just remember like, oh, that's a famous guy. John Lennon's son. Crazy. Because, you know, I was coming from New York. Of course. 25, 26 years old. I didn't know anything. I was like, this is so strange. It was just strange to me to be in these like Hollywood parties with this MTV executive who's taking me around and showing me all this stuff. Oh, yeah. She was just kind of like introducing like, this is what it's like.

40:15Yeah. Is what everybody does. They go out, they go out to the clubs and it was just... Yeah, the scary thing about LA was that you thought it was all over by two o 'clock, you know, because they literally pull your drinks at 130. But then they go to someone's house. Right. And they continue till dawn, you know. So that was dangerous too. Yeah. So I was happy that I got away from that. Fortunately, I avoided all that. Yeah. Yeah, lucky. Yeah. I mean, there was some fun to be had. No question about it. But a lot of it was kind of dark too. Oh, yes. I'm sure. Well, that's when you start adding cocaine to human beings, you get darkness.

40:56Oh, yeah. And a lot of jack Daniels too. They go hand in hand. Yeah, I avoided all that luckily. When I moved to LA, I'm one of those people that's like, you were at that. I think we're that's going. How long were you out there for? Well, um, I guess 30, well, no, not quite 30 years, uh, 26 years, because I've been here for four stretch. Yeah, the most, yeah, the most of my life, the most I've ever lived anywhere. I lived there. But I only went to parties like a handful, very small, handful of times. It was all like, it was dragged to them. Yeah. You know, like the last one I was dragged to was Naomi Campbell's birthday party, which was I'm sure that was, uh, it was insane.

41:38Yeah. It was with Dave Chappelle. So Dave and I were at the comedy store and, you know, Dave knows everybody. Yes. Yeah. Hey, man, there's a party up in the hills. You want to go? And I was like, I don't want to go to any fucking parties. Yeah. He's like, come on, man, I want to go alone. So I said, okay. So me and Dave, we drove all the way up and it was like a scene in a movie. Yeah. Because like, here's me and my super famous friend and we're my Porsche. And we're my race car of a GT3. So we're driving up in the hills and then we have to stop at this place and then you have to get on a shuttle and then you get to the house and then you get on an elevator and outside elevator that takes you from the main house to the party house.

42:21Right. So they had a party house on the top of this hill. So we're up in this elevator with Demi Moore, which is weird as it is. Yeah. I'm like, hi. You know, it's fucking weird. I'm famous lady. Yeah. And then we get to the top of this hill and it's just everybody famous. It's Lenny Kravitz and all these different people. And so Demi, Cambell, there's a photograph of her on the side of the hill that's literally 50 feet tall. It's an enormous naked photograph of her. Of course. Because it's her birthday. Well, of course. She's unbelievably beautiful still. It was old she is. I don't know how old she is, but she looks sensational.

42:55So we get to the top of this place. We're hanging out. It's very weird. It's very weird. And then Dave pulls me inside. He goes, man. I wouldn't want to be this famous. I go, hey man, you're the most famous motherfucker here. He goes, really? Oh yeah, yeah. Because we're a little high. He goes, really? I go 100%. You're the most famous person there. This is, we're just laughing. Like, this is so crazy. And then we got out of there and went right back to the comedy store. I'm like, oh, I can't do this. Yeah. It's just too strange that the scenes are pretty weird out there. That's for sure. Well, it's also these celebrities.

43:27And they can't hang out with regular people, I think. They feel too weird. So I think they try to get together. Yeah. And so we were in like a... That's the absolute spot on a vampire dance of famous people. You are absolutely spot on. Dave called it like he said it was like an eyes wide shut party. I'm like, that's what it feels like. Yeah, yeah. It feels like you're in a secret for turns. No, that's, yeah, there's a few that I've left that I felt very uncomfortable being at. Like what? I mean, I couldn't tell you exactly where I'm when, but certainly some weird ones up in the hills. I just went now.

44:01This just doesn't feel good. There's something about the act of going up into the hills. Like you're going to the later, the dragons' later. Well, one of the things was the fact that, well, I mean, now you've got ubers all over the place, but back in my day, there was no taxis around either. So you get trapped. Oh. And then you figure, well, I'm here anyway, you know. Yeah. Might as well have another drink. And that's what would happen more often than not. But yeah, so it's, it's, yeah, kind of better not to. Definitely better not to, but maybe go a couple times. Yeah, go check it out. Yeah, go and see what that's all about.

44:48Yeah. Many people have lost their time. Oh, yeah. They've lost their time to those places. It's very messy. It becomes a part of your life in your lifestyle. It's deeply unhealthy both. It's physically unhealthy, but it's also like spiritually unhealthy. Yeah, it's a weird way to spend your time. Been there, done that. Thank you very much. You look fine. You got through it. No, I did. I did get through it. But don't you think it's good to just know, though? Oh, yeah. Yeah, not the way to do it. No, I say, if I think if you don't know, you know, you can't, you can't talk about it. You can't, you can't understand that we had journey that you go through.

45:29I think you have to do certain things sometimes just to realize what it's all about. Well, LA is that balancing. It's the light and the dark, you know. LA is so particularly odd too, because everyone's chasing this very specific goal of notoriety. Like, it's success, but success is it's quantified by notoriety. Like the more famous you are, the more popular, the bigger your song is. Even now, you know, all you've got to have is a bloody iPhone or whatever. Yeah, tick tock. An account and that's it. Yeah, I mean, very strange. Yeah, really, really odd. Yeah. I like, I can't quite get to grips with all of that, to be honest with you.

46:14I don't think anybody can. And I think it's essentially being captured by a form of technology that has leveraged our desire for this attention, our desire for this notoriety. But it's also being known for nothing. Right. Yeah, that's the scary thing. Yes. And having this element of what seems to be the latest generation of this privilege. Right. You know, right. Well, they believe that, you know, everything is owed to them. Right. And I titled that entitled, yeah. And I find that shocking, you know. Well, that comes along with the quest, right? If the quest is just notoriety, like if you're an artist and you happen to get famous because everybody loves your music or loves your photography or loves your books or whatever it is, that's a different sort of a relationship because people love you for what you've made, what you've produced.

47:10Yeah, there's a purpose. Yeah. And I love people like that because I'm fascinated by people that are able to create things that resonate with everybody or resonate with an enormous amount of people. It's fascinating to be around them. And to like to kind of just, you know, I know a lot of famous people now. And I know some of them are just fantastic people. It is really interesting people. Yeah. Well, you have very interesting people on your show. That's a show. I mean, that's what intrigued me, you know, from, you know, Professor Brian Cox, you know, who I'm an absolute fan of. He's amazing. Meet me.

47:44Such a nice guy. Lovely guy. Mind blowing. Mind blowing. Too much information for my good. It's so funny. I was talking about him with a friend of mine the other day. And my friend wasn't aware of him. And I had just done a podcast with him. And so, and I'd gone to the club from the podcast. I'm like, oh my god, I have the greatest podcast. Hey, it's guy blew my mind. Yeah. I've had him on several times. And he's always amazing. And my friend looks at the photo. He goes, what does he look like? I pull up. He's like, is that kind of fucking band or something? I go, yeah, he wasn't a band. That's right.

48:13He's like, no way. Yeah. He's in a successful band. Yeah. He's an actual brilliant scientist who is in a successful band. Yeah. Yeah. Mind boggling. Mind boggling. I mean, I doesn't comprehend. Because he looks like a rock star. He does. He does. He's, he's, yeah, he's not changed his looks since the beginning. And he's such a great science communicator. Well, that's the thing. See, I love science. But I get lost in it sometimes. But he is probably probably the closest I'll ever get to really trying to have an insight into what it's all about. You know, as best as he can describe it. He's really good at explaining to people that don't have the proper understanding of all the terminology and all the ways they discover it.

48:58He can lay it out for the lay person. Yeah. Which is why he's so fascinating, which is why everybody should know him. Yeah. His show is wonderful too. Have you ever seen a show they do a live performance? No, I have not. Enormous screens. And they show you like history of the universe and stellar nurseries and all this wild stuff. Yeah. Really incredible stuff. No, fantastic. Yeah. Fantastic stuff. Yeah, I've been very fortunate in that way that I've had a chance to talk to so many extraordinary people. And it's great. But it makes talking to boring people. Almost painful. Like, like, you're just holding your breath.

49:37I don't know which category I'm in. You're not in the boring kind of. No. No. Well, I can be. I think we all can be, I guess, at some stage. But. Well, just the fact that you're willing to do what you've done is to take these trips and just move to a place. I think that's great. I think people need more of that in their life. I think you could see the world from your neighborhood and from where you live and get a really distorted sense of this experience. This very unique experience of these bizarre thinking creatures interacting with each other on this isolated planet that's hurling through the universe.

50:11Yeah. And you could think that you kind of understand the experience until you go to other places. Well, I see, I see you're a big fan of Baudin as well. Yeah. And I loved his show. So I still watch them all the time because it's just what he discovered and how he entrenched himself with the people that he went to meet and the conversations and the food. That's my cup of tea right there. You know, I think how can you not want to do that learn and love that experience? Well, he had such an infectious passion for different cultures and their food and the art of food. Like, he was the first guy that made me consider that cooking is actually an art form.

50:57Like, I kind of knew it, but I didn't think of it. I kind of just said, oh, delicious food. Awesome. Well, this guy's a really great chef. And then I watched his first show. No reservations. Like, oh, okay, duh. It's art. It's art that you eat. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's why they're all weird and now of tattoos and fucking weird earrings. Yeah. Okay, they're artists. Okay, that makes so much sense. And I was like, oh, you ignorant fuck. You like you had never put it in that category. I just like decided, no, that's just food. But no, there's an art to food. It's another level. Yeah, like the place you were talking about, Linguini with clams, Linguini Vongoli, which is my favorite dish of all time.

51:36Spaghetti Vongoli. Well, I promise that if you ever come back to Monty, as we call it, I'll drive you. Oh, I'll go. I'll go. We'll go for spaghetti Vongoli and hope the dear grandmother's still alive. It also makes me angry because when I eat pasta and pizza over in Italy, I don't feel like shit. Then I come to America and I eat the same supposed things. And I feel I can eat a friggin salad here and put on weight. I don't know what's going on. I'm serious. Yeah, it's seed oils. Absolutely. Seed oils in the salad dressing and sugar. Yep. All of that. All of that. Yeah, I agree. I live, it's a much healthier lifestyle over there without question.

52:20I think food hasn't been violated. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. It's generally organic. You can eat pizza every day. I'm pasta every day. Yeah. And also, I think the other real big thing here is the portion controlled as well. Yeah, we're gluttons. I mean, you can have one plate for the food here and it'll serve four people in Europe. Yeah, literally. Oh, yeah, that's a fact. I think, I was poor when I was young and I think because of that, I'm even more of a glutton because I just want more food. I want all the food. Yeah, yeah. And then I work out a lot, so I'm always hungry. So that I have a real.

52:59That's a different thing. Yeah, but yeah, I mean, the only thing that keeps me from being fat is my exercise routine at discipline. Because if I was just giving into my whims, I'd be 500 pounds for sure. Yeah, I'm just saying. I love food. Yeah. It's, you know, it's especially when food goes from a different culture. No. You know, if you go to somewhere, like you can go to Thailand and eat authentic Thai food in Thailand, it's like, oh, man. Oh, yeah. There's something special about it. It's great when you've got friends who have that same appreciation that, you know, while you're eating lunch, you're talking about dinner.

53:32Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, that's how excited you are about food. And it's also, it just reallands your priorities. Like what, what really are you trying to get out of life? You're trying to get out of life, memorable experiences with people you care about. Those are like the best moments in life. No question. No question about it. Yeah. Yeah, I long for that. Yeah. Because also I go in these very long working time periods. And I don't get to see a lot of friends quite often, you know. And so I really try and work out and look at the shed, my schedule these days ago. I'm taking some time out here for a couple of days.

54:14I want to see my friends, I want to say hello, I want to share some time and stories and food with them. Yeah. So it's become a key thing to have that included in running around like a headless chicken all the time, you know. Is that what inspired your photography? Because this book is really excellent. Your photographer is great. Thank you. Um, uh, I, you know, it was a dear friend Timothy White who's a celebrity photographer. And um, he'd done my second and third album. And we were doing a charity single called Lucy. Which was about Lucy Voden who was the Lucy in the sky with diamond. Oh. The light we're up with.

54:57Who died from lupus. And then I became the lupus, uh, uh, um, the ambassador for the, um, lupus foundation of America. And we were doing a single to raise money called Lucy. And we were doing, uh, with another great artist called James Scott Cook. And we were doing a photo shoot. And he'd sent me some pictures and I started screwing around with his pictures. And he said to me, and you don't, you actually don't do that with another photographer's work. You know, he said, well, what the fuck are you doing with my pictures? I said, he said, where did you learn how to do this? I said, well, I, I didn't.

55:39I just, you know, I, I'm intuitively inspired to, to play around with stuff, you know. I'm still a big kid. So, and he said, well, do you have any other, do you have other photos? Do you actually have photos yourself that you've taken and worked on? I think I work a bit some bobs, but nothing. So he, he and I sat down and looked through all the photos I had. And, uh, I think there would be a thousand at that time, which isn't much at all. I'm now over 120 ,000 photos, uh, it's mind boggling. Um, that's why this was difficult. But, um, yeah, so he, he said, uh, uh, Jules, why don't you do something with this stuff?

56:23And I said, what, what, what am I going to do? He said, listen, you should do an exhibition. You've got some really beautiful things here. And I said, I said, listen, I'll do it. I'll do it if, if, if you mentor me through the whole process, which he did. And, um, and I, I was probably more petrified at the first exhibition that I did, which was in New York at the old CBGBs, um, um, which turned into the Morrison Hotel Gallery. And, uh, that was in 2010, I think. And, uh, I, I was more petrified. The three days leading up to that than I was ever going on stage. Well, probably my first ever stage performance, which I did in Dallas at, uh, at rehearsal space that was down here for the first ever tour.

57:19Um, now I, again, the anxiety, you know, it's the unknown. I don't know what, you know, the worry of what people are going to think because, you know, not just being you, but John Lennon's son. Right. Being the second John, so to speak, was always an issue for me. You know, it's feeling like you have to doubly prove yourself. Um, so, um, and, and literally an hour or two before the opening as well, there was the most horrendous storm and downpour in New York. And I thought, well, that's it. Nope. Nobody's coming. Um, but to my utter delight, I had, uh, reviews from fine art, photography, uh, magazines, et cetera, et cetera, that gave me nothing but praise.

58:08And I was shocked. Wow. Absolutely shocked. Um, so I just, I just continued, uh, doing that. I, I, I'm now over, I think 42 exhibitions worldwide. And I just finished my biggest one in Venice at a museum. Uh, over the last three months. And the book, in fact, uh, it, I had approached other publications before, but been pretty much turned down by everybody. And then I added the blue, the early of this year, at this company out of Berlin called Tanois. Um, said, listen, do you want to do a photography book? And I said, hell yeah. And they said, why haven't you done one before? Because nobody gave me the up of like, a tunedity.

58:58Excuse my French. Do you think that's because you're John Lennon's son? Like, there's a burden that is very unique to you. I listen to people like you. I certainly recognize that there's walls up without question. What, what is that like? Like, what are the walls? Like, do you think it's just, they dismiss you? I, because something's going on. I mean, I've discussed this with Rebecca, who you met my manager and a few other people. You know, there's, there's occasions where I'll, I'll be totally blanked. Like with the last album I came out with, Jude, which took, uh, you know, between five and 30 years to write and record.

59:38It was old songs and new songs that I wanted to balance the sound. Um, and it was, it was at a time when, um, I'd gone through a lot of changes myself. And I, I had decided to finally call myself a B Julian. I'd been John Charles Julian Lennon all my life. But everybody had always known me as Julian, even mum, mum and dad called me Julian. So I'm like, you know, I want to be, I want to be me finally. So by Deed Paul in 2020, I said, right, I'm going to be Julian now. And the album's going to be called Jude. And the, the reason I called it Jude was it was finally, uh, not only in acceptance, but, uh, but actually, what's the terminology?

1:00:32It's, I'm, I'm actually taking ownership, should I say, of the name Jude. And, and what that represented for all these years. Um, to other people and to me. So anyway, so I, you know, that was, the album was a biggie for me, calling the album Jude for starters, inciting. Right. Hopefully positive things. There was, um, um, but the weird thing was, you know, I did, uh, I put this whole band together and I, I, I wanted to, as a, as a starter to go on, all the, the, the TV shows that I always were ever wanted to appear on. Um, for instance, uh, in England like, uh, uh, Jules Holland, uh, later with Jules Holland, which is the only live music show that I've watched all my life literally.

1:01:32Um, uh, there's Graham Norton, which, and I, and I'd done their radio shows, which is really, really weird. And we got on like a house on fire and I performed live. And that all went down well and then it was kind of like, see you at, uh, on the real show. Produces turn me down. And, you know, and, and same with a lot of the late night American shows. Got, got, just didn't, they weren't interested. And I, you know, I had, I had, you know, I'd done the name change. I'd been away for 10 years. I'd, I'd called the album Jude. Um, you know, there was, there was a lot to talk about. You know, um, on a great deal more than I'm presenting right now that, uh, anyway, I was, I was turned down and still, and that still happens to me.

1:02:28Um, which, which, uh, saddens me because just when you feel like you want to open up, you know, um, and answer any question you can throw at me. I, I, you know, I've, I've not been allowed to, not, it's, that's what it's felt like that I've not been allowed to speak my piece, whatever that is, you know, on, on whatever subject matter. It's weird. It's like, uh, the, the gatekeeper aspect of it is weird, but it's also weird like, why not? Like what, what would be the house of tense? I don't, I don't understand. It's this, the idea of the sun of a great man, you know, and there's this weird, we have a dismissal and I'm very guilty of it myself.

1:03:10Yeah. The sun of a great man, I was similar to that guy's fucked. Yeah, yeah, he's fucked. It's like the burdens too high. Yeah, yeah. Jude, that was John one and yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I can't. Well, you, and I think with a lot of people, they don't want anybody to interfere with that. You know, I mean, how dare the, you know, the sun come along and even try and be better in any way, shape or fall or what be as good as or whatever. Or whatever. Yeah, you're immediately dismissed. Which is why, which is why, you know, to a certain degree, photography really appealed to me. Number one, because, uh, and the reality is I prefer it behind the camera, you know, I don't mind being a goofball once in a while doing in front of the camera things, but I'm not really comfortable there.

1:03:58But behind the camera and, you know, traveling is what I have a foundation called the White Feather Foundation. And, uh, you know, we, we tried to help people all over the world and it started. I know that you have interest in indigenous cultures. And I don't know if you know the backstory to this, to the White Feather Foundation at all. I don't. Okay, so here we go. Okay. Um, I was on tour, where it's probably my most, at least outside of America, most well -known song. Was it number one and top 10 in countries all over the world except for America? And it was called Saltwater. And Saltwater is about environmental and humanitarian issues.

1:04:48And I was number one in Australia. I was doing all kinds of shows. I was doing promo and, and tour as well. And I found myself in, uh, Adelaide. And I got this call from the hotel management saying, uh, excuse me, Mr. Lennon, but there's, uh, an Aboriginal tribe down here with TV crews who want to say hi. And I told it was like an on -the -road prank. I said, yes, sure. Sure. Why would they become and see me? You know, and they call back and they said, no, no, no, no, this is serious. Can you come down please? And so I think TV crews Aboriginal tribe, what's this about? And so I kind of dole get doled up a little bit because I don't know what the TV shows are or cameras are.

1:05:41Yeah, so I go down. And in the lobby, there's a little platform and about 30 people. Half of them indigenous, TV crews, bunch of other stuff. And I honestly have no idea what it's about. And this, this woman who was the elder of this particular tribe called the Moning people, uh, walked up to me, uh, and presented me with a male swan's white feather, which is about yay big. And said, you know, can you help us? You have, you have a voice. Can you help us? And I just kind of went, well, you know, do I just continue being the rock and roller or do I step up to the plate? Whatever that means. And so I specifically did they want help with?

1:06:34Well, I'll tell you, initially, you know, um, I, I didn't know what the, what their problems were. I imagined that it would be the same as most other indigenous tribes around the world that have had issues, you know, um, and they said, they said, you know, can you help us? And I said, I'll, you know, I'll do it for the children.

1:06:58So I, I guess what I was saying is the next generation I can, you know, try and, anyway, so I, I, this woman was called Irish. She was the elder. She's since passed in the last year or so. Um, um, but I spent 10 years making a dog. Documentary with the best friend Kim, Kim, Kindersley who, who initiated this whole thing. And we made a documentary called Whale Dreamers. Independent. We had no money really behind it, no sponsorship. We won about eight international independent film awards, which was great. Um, and, but the backstory to this is that, um, is that dad had said to me, uh, and I couldn't tell you when or where just was one of those times that we were together.

1:07:52He just said that, you know, if something ever happens to me, that I'll let you know that, that, that, that, that, that, let you know that I'm okay, or that we're all going to be okay, we'll be in the form of a white feather. Whoa. So, when that woman presented me with a white figure, feather, sorry. Um, you know, the goose, the goose bumps came on heavy. I get them now every time I talk about the story. I'm getting them right now. So yeah, there she is. There's Iris and there's Bonner, who's, uh, one of the other guys. That is so crazy. I still have that. That I still have that in the original envelope that she gave it to me, and it's, you know, it's a, you know, in a very special place at home.

1:08:44I mean, you can talk all about coincidence. Oh, no, listen, that is for me, I'm sorry, that was undeniable, regardless of where my faith or spirituality or religion was, to me, that was, uh, this is real. This is as real as it gets. It's funny because people would, people love to dismiss these things. Like, oh, hogwash. Oh, it's just coincidence. Oh, it's, it could have been a variety of different things. And, but the reality is mathematically, like, what are the odds? Just what are the odds that you would be contacted by an indigenous tribe, and they would bring you the very thing that your father said he would provide you as proof.

1:09:29Yeah. And I was in Australia. Yeah. A bit number one at the time, with Saltwater, the most environmental humanitarian song I've ever written and performed, you know. Right. Uh, yeah. So, uh, so I said, yeah, I'll do what I can. So we did, made the film, and then with the advent of, of course, the internet, I, yeah, I thought, okay, let's, we will put a website together to, to sell the film, make some, you know, and, and, um, and I'd also said to my businessman, just said, if we make anything on this, I said I want everything to go back to the, the, the, the, the morning people. And he said the only way that that can happen is if you have a foundation.

1:10:20So initially, the foundation was just a vehicle, just to pass money along. But I started the White Feather Foundation to have, again, a vehicle to sell the, um, um, the film. And then slowly but surely, I would start getting these emails from people over the years, you know, over time. Sorry. Um, say, well, you know, can you help us? And I'm going, well, I'm not really a foundation. I'm just, I did this project and I thought that was it. Anyway, there were a few other, there was lots of emails and I finally said, well, you know, all right, this is a platform. Let me see if I can. Okay, what am I interested in?

1:11:02What can I do? What, I, you know, there's plenty of other charities out there. There's, there's plenty of other people doing other things. But what can I do? What's most important to me? Indigenous tribes were the first, so the morning people and then, in fact, in the film itself, in Well Dream is the Kim, the, my director, friend and director, had already done a segment of a film where he grouped 80 of the elders of the world, world's indigenous tribes, the 80 from around the world, around a fire and just film them to, to talk about their plight and what they had in common and the fact that their cultures and land were being taken away from them, being destroyed, etc., etc.

1:11:58So that, that became one of the first orders of the day. Protect the morning, protect indigenous tribes around the world, try to buy back their lands and protect their cultures and their people and try and support them in whatever way we can, which is what we continue to do. And I was in Kenya going to different schools and health clinics, mostly girls schools. I set up a scholarship in my mum's name, the Cynthia Lennon scholarship for girls. And so we send them to college and universities where they go to learn how to protect their, their people and their families and cultures. And so we support, you know, we build health clinics and dormitories and we do it because I mean the stories that I heard from these girls about having to walk to them from schools that took three to six hours and they'd be exhausted by the time they got to home or to school and that they in order to, you know, get ahead, they had to pass, you know, certainly exams but they had the threat pretty much every day of being either raped or murdered.

1:13:22And they would literally stay in their own schools, sleep in the classrooms and convert them to dormitories at night so that they felt protected. I mean, it was, and when they went home, they were doing, you know, three hours of chores every night before they could do any homework and then go to sleep and then walk to school again. So you'd hear these incredible stories that you just realized how lucky you are. And so we tried to help, again, the Indigenous, we do help with health and education as far as young kids, young girls across Africa. Can you hear an ETH here? And also my last trip was to Colombia, to South America, to visit the Koji tribe, who were these insane people that chewed the cocoa leaves.

1:14:20But they used to be fishermen years ago before the Spanish arrived and the 1600s and chased them off into the Sierra Nevada mountains. The coccalees are cat. Yeah, it's coccalees. Coccalees. Yeah, and they chew it and mix it with spit and they're all off their heads really. But they still have this beautiful culture. And I was only there for a few days and we were up in the mountains with them. And there's another group, there's an NGO, another group called the Amazon Conservation Team, who the White Fether Foundation worked with. And we went down there and was able to buy back some of their land.

1:15:02And we did a couple of ceremonies with them, which were very, very beautiful. But one of the most, I probably, one of the happiest moments of my life, and I've only mentioned this once or twice, was that we came back down from the mountains and we came to the sea where we were staying in the huts and the Koji tribe came down with us. It lit a fire on the beach. Some was just going down and there was no phones, no computers, no nothing. And we were just sitting on the beach. And the fires between myself and the Koji tribe and the sun's just going down and the waves are right in front and it's just very beautiful.

1:15:50Nobody on the beach, old beautiful beaten up tree trunks that have washed up on the shore and just a little haze from the water and the sand being blown. And there was a piece that I can't explain. I looked over at them and through the fire, you know, the flames of the fire, oh, we just smiled. There was no words. It was just some level of peace that had been found just living in that moment, that present moment. And then the sun going down and then because there's no street lights or anything else around, you saw every star in the sky possible. And so with that transition, hanging out with this, one of the oldest tribes in South America, with the fire, with the sea, with the sky and the stars, there was, I can't even describe it.

1:16:59It was one of the most loving and most peaceful moments of my entire life, the simplicity of it. It was actually the simplicity of it all and just the human heart and the appreciation for the world that we live in. It's like, well, that's partly why I do what I do, you know, even with the photography, it's capturing those moments. There's once in the lifetime moments. And the other thing was, is that how I started doing photography is when I was on the road a lot. You do these real long haul flights, you know, to America or to Asia or wherever. And back in the day, you only had one movie on a projector.

1:17:46That was it. You know, you didn't have TV screens or the iPhones or anything to watch anything. So once the movie was done and you'd have a bit, you know, a bit of food or whatever, that was it. Most people would go to sleep.

1:18:01I would be looking at the window and staring at the clouds. And I would, I realized that, you know, what I was seeing was literally just moments. And there would never be again. They would be gone. Fleeting. That's it. Whatever that cloud, that light, that shade, that shadow, the color, the beauty of that, the enormity of it as well was, so I started taking pictures of clouds. And I just thought that at these moments, while everybody else was asleep on the plane, I'd be sitting there looking out, either thinking about everything that was on my mind in the world, yeah. Or I'd be thinking of, I'd be thinking of nothing at all.

1:18:53And I'd just be at peace. And again, like that moment in in Colombia, just absorbing everything that I found to be beautiful that was surrounded me. So clouds were my thing at first. That was my moment to either get away or think about everything. But mostly that kind of element of freedom and space and just, am I the anyone seeing this? Everybody else is asleep. So distracted. Yeah. So I started taking pictures of clouds. And then, you know, I knew a few rock and rollers. So I started taking pictures of those two. And then one thing led to another, because I'd go on these trips to Ethiopia with great organizations like Charity Water.

1:19:48And again, Kenya and South America and a number of other places, I just would take a camera with me because for the, I have to confess, and I've said this a few times, I have the worst memory of anybody I know. Absolutely terrible. Absolutely terrible. And so in a way, this was taking a camera with me, was to catalogue what was going on. And it was only when I got back home, I put them on the screen and I go, oh, that's quite a nice picture. That's not so bad. What if I just did this that and the other? And so I started making collections of my journeys, which eventually became my website and my photography.

1:20:34You know, I've never done a paid gigs as such and I've never used nothing that was natural light or present light. So I've never set anything up. I've always tried to, again, get that moment whatever it was. And then, you know, I had the opportunity, I know I've gone in a bit of a round about circle, but you know, the publishers came to me earlier this year saying, do you want to do a book? And I'm thinking, well, yes, and how do I do this? And because a lot of people don't know, I'm a photographer in any way, shape or form, I thought, okay, can I make it a retrospective? Can I make it all the stuff that I'm interested in?

1:21:19You know, because after as a photographer or even a musician, you get, or what is your favorite thing? What do you take pictures of? What does your songs about? Everything. Why do they? You know, the idea of being pigeonholed in any way, shape or form horrifies me. So this was a way for me to show my work. And it was a bit of a nightmare too, because I had decided with the onset of this exhibition I'd been offered in Venice at this museum alongside Helmut Newton, no less.

1:22:03Why don't I try and marry the two? So I have the book come out the same time as the exhibition. Now that meant working on the book like an absolute fruitcake, madman on crack. I mean, we were doing nine to 12 hours a day virtually, because he was based in the the the guy who I was working with from the publishers was based in Berlin and I was where I was. So this would be virtual, back and forth trying to figure out what makes a photography book great. It was something else. We did it in a couple of weeks. It was insane. And the hardest job of it all was because I used to shoot anywhere between 150 and 100 pictures for a collection.

1:22:56I was never one of those that had like a limited edition of four or 10 pictures. Again, this was just a catalog of the work of what I'd seen and the charity stuff. But then I had to, you know, in those moments, I had to learn how to make a collection of 50 pictures, five pictures. I'm going, well, how the hell do I do that? How am I going to do that? So it's being able to tell the same story of 50 pictures in five pictures. The problem is you know about the other 90 pictures. Well, of course. And I keep saying they're all my stories. The truth. What's the really, really, really important message I'm trying to get across here?

1:23:48What am I trying to say? What am I trying to express here? You know, because half the time I just feel like you know a messenger really. I'm just capturing something and I'm sharing it. And the reason I say that is because once I started getting into this, a lot of the earlier emails I had were from disabled people or people that didn't have money that couldn't travel around the world. And they would say, well, you're bringing this to us, you know, by taking these photos, you're showing us your journey and where you've been and these indigenous tribes and this and that. I'm going, that's pretty, that's really quite special.

1:24:30That's really, you know, really quite special because you're taking on another role because I try not to, I've in whatever profession I've done, whether it's documentary work or books or children's books or music. I never try and shove things down people's throat. So I just present things and you take what you want from them. So the idea was to put a book together that just showed the world as I'd seen it through those journeys that I've been on. And what happened was that when we got the go ahead for this exhibition, which was only earlier this year, I was thinking, how am I going to do that?

1:25:18And that was going to, I decided to make that a retrospective too. But how do I then chop that many pictures down to that of this exhibition?

1:25:32Again, I funnily enough, the book became my guideline. So what I'd learned in the editing process of putting the book together, I now looked to that and the book to see how I could present the work on the in a larger scale in the museum. And which was bonkers. And this all happened this year. So it's like, okay, all right, I'm going for the ride, whether I obviously want it. But when it all hits you at once, it's quite something else. It's been a full -on busy, busy year. And there's been music involved too.

1:26:18Documentary film projects, which you'll probably hear about next year. So it's probably been weirdly one of my busiest years, even though I've been enjoying yourself, though. I'm alive. That's, I think that's for me, that's, you know, people say, how are you? I'm alive. And I have always gone with things that have been presented to me organically. Anytime I've ever thought that or been pushed into situations, generally never works out. I think for everybody else. Yeah. So I feel fortunate in that these things have come along and I've been in the right headspace, thankfully, to go, yes, I want to do this.

1:27:14When you start shooting, did you take classes in the technical aspects of photography? I don't have a clue. So what kind of cameras are you using? How did you learn how to use them? I didn't. I didn't. I just figured out a focus on the same with music I play by year. Not a clue how to read or write music. Really? Yeah. And this, I tell you, this is one of my fears is that and I'll come back to this, but because I'm not a practicing musician, well, I haven't been for years anyway because of all the other work that I do. So if I'm not on the road and I'm not practicing and I've got a terrible memory, I forget.

1:28:04And so, you know, I've been cornered a few times and people say, come on, pick up the guitar or play the piano, give the song. I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't even if you gave me a million bucks tomorrow. I couldn't do it. My memory just doesn't work that way. And so if I, and this is why my manager and I were back a week, keep having chats about going on the road. I said, listen, if we're going to do this, then this is, this is a lot of work for me. This is, I have to relearn how to play my own songs and my lyrics and I kid you not. Wow. So, but you also have to relearn self -taught. Yeah.

1:28:51Yeah. So what would you do? Like, have you done that in the past? Or you had a relearn? Yeah. Well, what? Yeah, I mean, the last tour I did with the album, everything changes. How do you scale it? Like, how do you get you just have to get in the room? So you just get in the room and start getting in the room with the guys, you know, the band that you put together, generally, I'll have one or two friends in the band, you know, and I have generally played, you know, rhythm with tar or a bit of piano for a couple of songs, but I have to relearn everything. I mean, it's, it's, it's, and then how is it takes, how is it take to relearn how to play?

1:29:32Well, when we were, we were, we were actually setting up, as I said, to do a bunch of TV shows to promote the album. And I was quite surprised about how quickly, because the band was so good, I walked into the room, they had the songs down already. I just went, oh, fuck, shit, I'm screwed. So that means, again, I have to step up to the plate. And it was just a question of being in there every day, remembering, learning the chords, going over it over it over it again. And of course, when I'm, all this stuff that we were going to perform was all new material, because when I write a song, if I've written the basics of a song in an hour or two, you know, and it's all there, and then written the lyrics, and then produced it, recorded it, and it's done.

1:30:25That's the one and only a couple of times that I'll have ever played it. So it's, it's almost a new song to me every time I come back to it. It's, it's a real weird one. So for the photography, you know, I just took along, basically, a really good quality automatic camera that, you know, took the shots. Did you know what you were buying or did you just go buy one? No, I mean, help you. No, I'd ask a few friends like Timothy White. It's a, you know, what could I use if I'm running around? And, and so I took their advice and I studied with a very simple camera that was auto -focus and all compact and I didn't have to change lenses.

1:31:12And that's one I did for a trip around the South China seas on a boat trip. I just took this one camera in my backpack and hope for the best than that. I had a show here at Leica in L .A. because it was a Leica camera, which was about 50 images of the trip that I did. So, but I think where my strength lies in photography is weirdly not on the technical side, obviously, but capturing that moment. I tell you the one thing about the woman that's on the cover of the book. So that's she is now the princess of Monaco, Charlene, originally Charlene Whitstock. And I'd met her a couple of times and I'd met Prince Albert a couple of times.

1:32:15And I got this call literally the day before they were getting married from a mutual friend saying Charlene loves your photography. She wants you to come and shoot the show. What? Yeah, she wants you to come down to where she is getting ready for the civil wedding tomorrow and she wants you to take pictures. Wow. I mean, you want to talk about anxiety and crapping yourself. Sorry, excuse me.

1:32:55I arrive at the hotel where she and all the maids of honor are sitting in the lobby and I've got a backpack and one camera and I've tried to dress myself up a little bit. I don't know what's going to happen. I had to go through several layers of security, you know, road blocks and all this to get there, which was nerve -wracking to say the least anyway. And then the likes of Patrick de Maceleier, you know, one of the best photographers in the world walks in with, you know, the suitcase trolleys, you know, those ones at the hotel, on the big ones on wheels with all his equipment on, three or four trolleys and there's, I've got a backpack, you know.

1:33:47Anyway, I go upstairs, I'm placed in front of her in a room probably about similar to this size and she's sitting there completely blanked out in front of the mirror with the hairdresser, the hairdresser's assistant and their assistant, the makeup artist, the makeup artist's assistant. Is that you? Yeah, that's me. Yeah. Oh wow. Yeah, so I'm in the book a few times. That'll be a quite a question error at one, that'll be a quiz at one point. How many times am I in the book? I don't even know myself to be honest. But I, so I sit next to her and you've got all these people, 20 people in a room this size doing things, trying to get her ready, 10 minutes before she's getting married and they put me on this little proof next to her.

1:34:38I'm sitting next to her and she's, and I'm saying, you're okay, you know, well, should I just take picture? She said, Jules, I'm not sure what to do. I don't know what to do. I'm going, what do you mean? You don't know what to do about the marriage or me taking pictures. I can't, you know, I can't write, right. She said, no, no, Jules, you know, it's the photos. I said, listen, this is historic. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to record what's going to happen to you. You know, and exciting for me too to be a part of that as I've talked for. And so I said, listen, I'll keep out the way.

1:35:23I'm flying the wall. You know, I won't be anywhere on it. And I was thinking how am I going to do this? How do I do this? And so I just start. I just let people get on and I'm taking pictures and I get a message from vogue .com who want a photo from me the moment she's married. And I'm thinking, ah, okay, I'll just keep snapping away at whatever I do. And I watch the civil wedding and then I get on my bike, go home and I start putting things up on my, on the screen. And I'm looking at pictures going, I've got a fuck off. I've got shit. I can't, this looks like crap to me. And this happens to me every time, every fucking time.

1:36:15And I'm looking at the pictures going, they look terrible. They really, really looked at blood and fuck and this and that and badly positioned and I'm cursing myself. And the one thing that I remembered that she said to me is that look, whatever you do, don't let any picture have me drinking or smoking in it. All right, all right, okay. And the one thing that vogue said to me is we want to see her smiling. And the one picture where she was smiling and she had champagne in her hand and she had a cigarette.

1:37:02So, okay, I was not a Photoshop kind of guy but I managed to get rid of the cigarette and I'm thinking, okay, how do I get deal with the champagne shit? And then the one thing that occurred to me, I thought, okay, I'll do it. I'll, I'll desaturate it. Not black and white but it'll have an, there'll be elements of tones. I'll make it, you know, so you can't see that it's champagne. And I did that and I cropped it in a certain way and I went, that's it. Why didn't I think of this before? You know, 1930s, 40s, 50s, princess, grace, black and white, old school. So then I turned every picture I had black and white, well, desaturated version similar to black and white, of, of the whole collection I had of her and and cropped it in a way that it was like 1950s magazines, you know, it's just certain angles and a different look and a different feel.

1:38:04Was she okay with the champagne being in the photo? Well, it didn't look like champagne, it just looked like a fizzy water and because they, on the side there had been bottles of fizzy water and still water. So that's, that's cool. She had to give me the, the okay to do that, you know, when we decided that should be the cover of this book, you know, I had to get her approval. I you know, having her pictures in a collection or a box set but not on the front cover of a book that may do well. Have you ever been to Disneyland? Yeah, oh god. Do you know all the pictures of Walt Disney have his cigarette photoshopped out of his hand?

1:38:52No, I did not. Yeah, in every picture you see him like this. Is that so? Yeah, see if you can find some of those pictures because it's really interesting. Once you know that they photoshopped it, there's a guy that we've had as a tour there, shout out to the Flander, awesome guy works there and he gave us this sort of history of Walt Disney, Walt Disney died of lung cancer. Right. Which you would think it would be probably a good thing to have the cigarettes so people could know all that poor guy, that's what killed him. But instead, they've decided to whitewash it in Photoshop. So all of his photographs.

1:39:27Look at his fingers are always in a position where he would have a cigarette. All of them. And so those real moments of him having a cigarette at a loss forever. His idea was to get rid of the cigarette? Disneyland. You know, Disneyland did not want. Yeah, I mean, let's see if there's a person it says there. So the action seemingly innocuous at first, but it's apparently a murky tribute to Walt Disney smoking habits with the company side stepping around the reason as to why the icon pointed that way. Right. It's Huff Post. It's been long speculated about the anonymous employee was informed by a lead that the strange gesture from the cast members of Disney Park is actually based on Walt's old smoking habit.

1:40:12So people do that two finger gesture to each other. Yeah, that's crazy. A ledger began training employees to do the same thing. Part tribute to the great band. Part rewriting history. So they tried to pretend that that thing that he was doing like Tom Hanks when he played him. He did that thing with his finger, but it's all bullshit. It was a cigarette smoker like a constant cigarette smoker. Oh, yeah, I was one of those. Is there any photos of him with a cigarette? You talking about it in 2014. Oh, that's me. That's funny. Well, that's when I found out about it. That's when Flando was a big stop doing it then right around then.

1:40:47Oh god, gotcha. I got you, bitch. I got them all to stop doing it because it's fucking stupid. Like the guy smoked cigarettes. Yeah, smoking cigarettes is bad for you. He died from smoking cigarettes. You should probably let people know it's you're doing a disservice to the whole world. Yeah. You know, for sure. And also it's you know, it's a part of history in the fact that so many people were unaware of the dangers of smoking cigarettes all day. And I'm so insanely addicted. Yeah, how'd you quit? Cold turkey. Wow. Yeah, I'd be one of those guys that had wake up at four in the morning and light up a cigarette and then go back to sleep.

1:41:28Wow. Or I'd take a took about two or three packs out with me every evening. Really? Oh, yeah, because I knew half of the people would nick half of my cigarette. Of course. I wanted to have backup. Oh boy. Now, when the whole no smoking law came, you know, Italy was one of the first and Ireland. Yeah, it was I think it was California that initiated it. And then Europe took it on board and it was actually Italy and Ireland and I was in both of those places and it was extremely weird to go into any, especially in Italy. And Ireland in the pubs. And for it to be a smoke free environment. And that was just so weird because it was part of the norm of the back in the day that you'd be in a cloud of stinky cigarette smoke.

1:42:25Yeah, that was any of those locations. I know I'm at comedy clubs. Yeah, I would go home from comedy clubs every night smelling like cigarettes. It's always for sure. The whole audience would be smoking. And as a smoker, you don't think you're not conscious of how other people, how you stink as well. Right. Which, you know, because it was funny when I quit called Turkey, I did it. I did it because I didn't want anybody to tell me I couldn't smoke. I was such a brat. That's why you quit called Turkey. I quit called Turkey because I wanted to be, not for you to tell me I couldn't smoke. How rough was it?

1:43:12That's what brought me down into a depression for a couple of years. Oh yeah, because I, listen, I started smoking at the age of probably 11 or 12 as part of my local gang that I used to be in as a kid. That's what you did.

1:43:33You had to ban the back of the school and that was part of the initiation, you know, the part of growing up. So, and I loved it because for me, when I became noticed as a musician, I again, with my anxiety and I was a very shy kid, very, very shy kid. Still can be at times depending on how I feel that day, but I would, yeah, I would, the cigarette for me was my best friend, you know, I'd go to a bar and I'd be able to, I'd be the, you know, not the cool guy at the bar, but certainly that would be my way of not having to interact with people. I just sit there and, you know, be a rocker and smoke my ciggy and down my jack danios and that's like, leave me the fuck alone, you know.

1:44:30And less I, you know, wanted to talk. So, that was the groove back then and then when I gave that up, you know, instantly, it was like, oh, shit, what do I do? How do I feel in that void? Well, I actually had to speak to people. That was the buzz of depression. No, no, no, no, it was actually, I feel it was definitely a chemical thing because again, I, I was, I was smoking a couple of packs a day, you know, I loved smoking. And the way it's considered going back just to alleviate the depression, I was actually a business manager friend of mine at the time said, saw me at one stage and said, Jules, pick up a fucking cigarette please.

1:45:15Seriously. And he said, you're, you're gonna, you're gonna die the way you're going. Wow. Pick up a cigarette because you're gonna die without it. Yeah. That was literally his sentiment. Wow. And it was a few years where it was very, very dark and it was the cigarettes. No question about it. Did you try patches or gone? Yeah, I did all of that stuff. Did it help? Not really. You know, I, I loved that deep inhale and it's the delivery method. Yeah, it's different than anything else. And the thing was I would still challenge most good singing friends of mine that I could hold my breath or do lengths in a swimming pool underwater and hold my breath better than anybody else, which I was able to.

1:46:11And it's because I was such a deep, deep smoker. When I inhaled, I really, really inhaled. So it was like lung exercises? Literally, literally. And I, you know, I remember going for my certain, yeah, seriously, I consider myself a shallow breather now in comparison, except for when I go on these kind of power walks, you know. Trying to, trying to get it all in anymore. But yeah, I know I bought a little apparatus, which I still haven't been procrastinating about it. But it's, it's an exercise that's like, I have one of those. Yeah, to expand. To trainer. Yeah, there you go. So I haven't done it yet.

1:46:53You put like little lenses on it or a little, you just changed the inhalation volume. Yeah, as less and back and forth. So you just trained to, by friend, Boss Routin created one. Very good. I mean, I, I know that they work. I just haven't gotten around to it. But, yeah, that's just breathing exercises alone or great. Yeah. You can achieve some very bizarre, altered states of consciousness through breathing exercises. Well, when I was, I mean, I, you know, the, the COVID experience was very, very different for very many people. And where I was in, in Monaco and France, you weren't allowed to leave your house without written paperwork to the police that you were going out for one hour.

1:47:42And you could only go within one kilometer, unless you were going to get groceries where you could only go out for a limited amount of time. If you didn't have the paperwork with you, you'd be fined. And so I, you know, I started doing, using quite a few apps to calm myself and, and take on deep breath and, a deep focus because I, I felt trapped, especially as someone who loved walking, who loved biking, who loved exploring all of that stuff and I couldn't move. And it, it, it, here's the really annoying thing was that, where I was was quite close to the sea. A couple of hundred yards away. But, as I said, I could only be in a one kilometer circle from where I was.

1:48:42But that half of that was in the sea. And, and so I could walk left and right to try and get five K in back and forth, you know, at least five K's, try and get a good walk in. But you weren't allowed on the beach, which was the most to sit there and contemplate and breathe and just, you know, try and relax. One of the healthiest things you can do. Yeah, you couldn't, you weren't allowed to do that. Everyone lost their fucking mind and it was really strange. In California, they were arresting people, the Coast Guard was arresting people for surfing. Like, Anna, it's not insane. I remember going on my first power or a longer peninsula.

1:49:31That's about 15 minutes out of Monaco. And it's somewhere I go every once in a while. And it was a really quite blustery day. And it's right along the coastline, rocks, high winds, the whole thing. And I'm walking a lapar walking along, thinking, I'm finally free. I'm finally free. Good. Anyway, so along the path ahead of me about a quarter of a mile, I see the number of bobbing heads. Okay. And I wasn't wearing a mask. You had to wear a mask even when you're at power walking on your own because of science. Of course, genius. Well, we are. Let's not get into that. But yeah. And so over the ridge, they come.

1:50:20And I noticed that one of the person is wearing a police hat. Oh, great. And so I'm trying to scramble putting my mask on. And he's taking out going for a run with a bunch of trainers, trainees, you know, about eight other people from the police force. They're all gunned up and truncheon and everything else. And the guy is going off on me in French saying, where are you fucking mask? And I'm going, and he says to me, yeah, I understand a little bit, a good amount of French. And I can speak a little bit. But he said, who are you with? And I'm looking around. There's nobody for half a mile anywhere near me.

1:51:13And he's asking me, who am I with? And I'm thinking, what's that about? This is the weirdest scenario. I'm in the middle of nowhere on a rocky peninsula. And he's asking me who I'm with. And there's nobody. And, you know, to put my mask back on, otherwise, I'd be in trouble. And it was just the most surreal peculiar circumstance to be, you know, well, you could have never imagined it before the pandemic. You could have never imagined a scenario where people would be that illogical, wearing a mask outside illogical, not being able to go to the beach illogical. I still love the fact that you see people sitting on their own in cars today wearing a mask.

1:51:59Oh, yeah. Well, if you go to Los Angeles, my friend just went to a party and he sent me a photograph. He's like, I'm at a Hollywood party. Everyone's wearing a fucking mask. These people are in a cult. Like it's very, it's first of all, if you haven't read the house, the 500 page synopsis and what all went wrong with COVID, everyone should read it, just to understand that the whole six feet distance, all that stuff is all made up. It's all bullshit. Yeah. Masks don't work. They don't work. Unless you have like a face -fitting mask and even that, you're getting oxygen in the particle, like viral particles in the oxygen are smaller than vape particles.

1:52:46Like if you vape with one of those things on, then put it out and then, or you take a big deep breath, put the mask on, the vape will come right through the fucking mask. So will the virus. Like this is not real. You're pretending and it's forced compliance, illogical force compliance, which was very disturbing. It was very disturbing to, for me, to see how many people were reinforcing that too. How many people were yelling at other people? It gave people a wonderful opportunity to be assholes, where they could yell at people for not having a mask on. But outside, really not the logic. It was out the window, but it was also really fascinating to watch human nature.

1:53:28The human nature of first of all, that people really do enjoy controlling people. Oh yeah. Really do enjoy telling people what the rules are and punishing people who disobey the rules, even if they don't make any sense. And then also watching people comply, knowing it's illogical and being upset at everyone that points out that it's illogical, that it's to make any sense. Like you're the enemy because you're not going along with it. You're making it harder for us. We have to get through this. Like, is this real? Yeah, yeah. String. Yeah. No, yeah. Stay away from everybody. That's the end of you.

1:54:06Or go to a place. Well, I came here. They didn't embrace any of that. Like I was in Los Angeles, which was like the most compliant place. Everybody was all in, all in on the public narrative that was being expressed in the mainstream media, all in on everybody who denies it as an anti -science person and you're anti this and enter that and just get that vaccine and just get on board with this beautiful little thing we're going to do. We're going to get through this together as long as everyone complies. And if you don't comply and if your neighbors aren't complying, here's a number you can call.

1:54:42If you start ratting out their name. It was like a it was a program that they the mayor of Los Angeles ran like normally snitches get stitches. But this way snitches get rewards. Like they were giving you money. They're giving people money to rat out their neighbors for having parties. Yeah, it's beyond messed up. Oh, it's so strange. And it doesn't seem real like my friend as son. And people are eager as well. Oh, yeah. Club eager. So happy they're part of it. My friend as son found a pair of pants that he was in his apartment and he pulled out a mask out of the pocket. It's like, fuck, when was the last time I wore these?

1:55:17There's a mask. And when you see a mask like and you realize like I had a mask that was in my truck that was in like on the back a little little compartment inside just happened to be sitting there and I was cleaning the truck out. I'm like, look at this fucking stupid thing. Like just this was just two years ago. Yeah. You had to have these things. You want to get on a plane. Seems like a bad dream. It does. It's like Disney in the fucking cigarettes. Like are they going to photoshop out all these people's masks? It's a little bit surreal. I mean, so strange. It really is. It's a little bit odd.

1:55:50Well, hopefully I still don't get it. I don't get any of it. You shouldn't. Hopefully these viruses that don't, especially at least don't wind up becoming the next one. I used to think there's no way that people would want that to happen. I'm not so sure anymore. No. After this last go around and I'm like, boy, there might be like sinister factors at work here that I don't under that question. I'm sure of that. And I was unwilling to everything that way before. I was like, come on. That's stupid. No one's that evil. No one would do that just for profit. Now I'm like, I don't know. Of course they probably would.

1:56:29Oh, they would. Yeah. They would. No question. So strange. So strange. And then, you know, that I think the frustration of the overcomplicated, overregulated, overcontrolled world is probably what accentuates the experience of you being in South America with a fire looking at the stars. Yeah. You know, because there's a purity to that that especially no phones, no computer, no screens, nothing, human beings. I love to experience on the planet. It's funny because I'm in the process of moving. I mean, I still have my base in Monaco, but the place, the little place I had outside. I'm a lot of my later teenage years were, uh, mom remarried a couple of times, but we were, we were in North Wales.

1:57:31I don't know if you're familiar with North Wales or Wales in general. It's mountains, you know, cheap and mountains. And, uh, so, um, yeah, I, we lived in farmland on farmland. And I used to work on a farm too. So I, I loved, and that's where I actually learned how to ride a motorbike, you know, on farmland and through rivers and in duos and stuff like that. And, uh, so I've always loved that element of, of countryside. I always like the, the excitement of a city and the people and the energy, but there's also that, that other side of peace and quiet and birds, song and, uh, running water. Yeah, yeah.

1:58:20So I think he's like a little bit of New York City and a little bit of mountains. Yeah. That's, that's the key to life. Yeah. So I'm in the process of, I've just, and I hate this terminology forever. But I, I, I certainly think it's a place that I'll be for a while. You hate the terminology of home? No, the forever. This is going to be my forever home. Oh, yeah. So, yeah. Um, I like moving. I really enjoyed moving here. I like getting up and just being in a new place. Yeah. I think it's good for the brain. I think, I've, I've been at the same place for over 26 years through some very good things, but some pretty dark moments as well, whether that's relationships or friendships and things like that.

1:59:08And I, I finally decided a few years ago, I, I need to change. Where you going? I, I'm, I'm very close by. I mean, I'm literally 15 minutes away, but it's just a different environment. Oh, in the mountains. Okay. Uh, surrounded by, you know, um, beautiful old oak trees and, uh, walking paths and, I mean, I know I'm sound like I'm going turning old all of a sudden. No, you sound like someone who appreciates beautiful things. I just want, I, you know, and the funny thing is when I went to see this place for the first time, my shoulders just dropped. Hmm. I just, right. And it was, I don't want to leave here.

1:59:51Yeah. You know, I, I, I, you know, and the rest of the world seemed very alien after walking onto this property. I just went, okay, a couple of acres of land surrounded by beautiful old trees and, piece of quiet and, I have thoughts on that. I think that nature is a vitamin that we don't know we need. Absolutely. And then no question about it. Yeah. You get it and then you're filled up. You're like, Oh, this is what I was missing. I mean, that also the whole, you know, tree hugging earthings. Yeah. It's real. I, I believe absolutely 100. It's real. It's real. It's, it's, it's, it's feel better.

2:00:29I mean, scientifically, scientifically proven. Mm -hmm. Yeah. We have a connection to earth that's been muted by our shoes. Correct. This is very, very true. Yeah. It's weird. It's weird to think that way, but it's absolutely correct. You know, you can put, well, I'm, and I, I have done this too that you can get earthing sheets. Yeah. That you can sleep on. I, I, I, you know, I, I sleep on one. I don't know if it works or not. Probably does something. Yeah, but what? That's, I don't know. Just get outside. Yeah. I then get outside to move. And if you can get outside of barefoot, it's even better.

2:01:06This is very, very true. Because the other day I was playing with my dog in the backyard and I was throwing the ball form and he just decided, sometimes he's kind of lazy. Sometimes he just decides to lay down. So I just sat down with him. And it was just this amazing moment of him just wagging his tail, you know, me petting him and just sitting in the yard just trees and birds and just, that's beautiful. That's it. It was a beautiful, peaceful moment that I just experienced with my dog. That's it. Two of us chilling. That's it. Really, really. It was a beautiful moment. I was thinking in that, in that time, like, this is so simple, it's just a simple, beautiful moment.

2:01:42And you know, if you try to explain it to people, most people are probably not going to get it. Okay, yeah, you're new dog. You'll have your dog like, no, it's not it. It's like, it was just life. It's just like this moment of life is recognizing. And also not thinking about anything else, which is also beautiful. Not thinking about Gaza. Yeah, it's about that little moment of appreciation here. And now thank you very much. How that can be beyond beneficial to you. But then that even explaining that unfortunately has been co -opted by the term mindfulness, which is so often used by grifters and like fake gurus and dorks and just it's one of those words that you say and you're like, mindfulness.

2:02:32I hate saying it. I'm a spiritual person. Oh, shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up. I can't take it. You know, it's like, I got it. But those terms are valuable. It's like the term God. It's like, it's a valuable term. Love is a valuable term. Yeah. But so often they just get ruined just by insincereity or just by people who use it as a way to define themselves. So, project is project. It's been hijacked. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, which is very sad actually because. Yeah, we could take it back. Take it back from those hijackers. Fuck them. I mean, yeah, I mean, there's, do you know Alex Gray is? No.

2:03:17Alex Gray is a visionary artist. He does a lot of like very, very intricate psychedelic pieces that are like iconic. He's very famous in like the psychedelic world. His stuff is really, really, really useful. I've seen, I'm sure, yeah. He's very, very famous. Oh, yeah. Not this. But we were talking about this and he said that he took the term God back because he's like, I think the term God has been co -opted by this idea of these totalitarian religions that impose very strict rules and dogma on people. He's like, I don't think we should stop using that word just because of that. And I think we can kind of take that word back.

2:04:01It would be good too. Yeah. Well, I think he kind of has. He actually has a church. He has a really, yeah, yeah. And it's like, he got to go through a whole thing. It'd acquire, you know, tax exempt status, but his church is this insane building that is all 3D printed with his type of psychedelic artwork. So it looks like some insane, like magical spiritual retreat that you would find somewhere like, see if you could find what's called a chapel of sacred mirrors. Where is this? Upstate New York. Upstate New York. So it's not that far from the city. You can get there fairly quickly. And it's, you know, a completely different world.

2:04:42And he's got this church up there that's filled with his insane artwork. But this church itself is a piece of artwork, like the outside of it the way. You know, he has a lot of these images of these faces that are like multiple, like multiple sides of faces all connected together. And this is like this. Oh, wow. Yeah. So this is the outside of his building. It's really incredible. That's the building. Oh. And that amazing. So the building is very, very much like his type of triptomine inspired art. Where like, you know, if you all these third eyes, like in a fractal form, the geometric pattern on the roof and everything is like that.

2:05:29It's really amazing phenomenal. And you know, it's working on it forever. Is he professing anything? I don't know what his keep phone is. There are no such. I mean, that's Alex on his very young. Yeah. But he's been, you know, in the sort of psychedelic space and psychedelic art space forever. And he had this incredible place in New York City. And then he decided to do this whole church. Just click it right there and just like play it out. I really know what the video is. Okay. It's 20 minutes long. I say. So a lot of his, so that's his wife. Is this derived from? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I say the magic, magic mushroom.

2:06:20It says right there. It comes out of the psychedelic experience. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. He's been a long time proponent of psychedelics. Just a very, very interesting guy. And his artwork is just incredible. Like really, but like probably the most accurate encapsulation of these experiences in, you know, in an artistic form. Really wild stuff. And again, this is, you know, he's the way he's got it set up now. He's in the woods. So he's in this beautiful, like, rural area. And then he's got this incredible chapel that's up there. So it's pretty fucking cool. Well, I'm certainly a believer in other realms that we don't see on a daily basis.

2:07:14Yeah. I mean, I've had a few experiences that were, whether that's a dream within a dream or whether it's reality, I don't actually know. Well, one of the things that I've talked to about with some pretty insanely brilliant people is quantum computing. Oh, yes. And this new Google quantum computer that can do essentially the way a quantum computer works, a problem that would take thousands of years for every computer on earth. I saw it. I've read that. It can solve in a stand. It can be solved in 15 minutes. Yeah. I read that. It's insane. And this is where it gets really weird. The way it was explained to me, and we should have to Google how quantum computers work and why people connect them to the multiverse.

2:08:12So I don't fuck this up. But the idea is that they're pulling answers from different universes simultaneously. They don't even completely understand how this is working. But the amount of power in computing is incomprehensible. incomprehensible. Like you're only looking at it and there's numbers. You could write all those it's probably the biggest breakthrough technologically in human history by a long stretch. And it's all happening without most people even being aware of what the implications are. So see if you can Google an explanation of how quantum computers work. Was it Mark Andreessen that was explaining to us that it's pulling from different universes?

2:09:08No, no, that is being talked about in the wording of the willow description. Right. But I also just to add when I was reading about this, they said that these benchmark numbers are coming off of Google's own data. Like they're the ones that set like the scale of what some of the quantum. Are you skeptical? Is that what you're saying? I'm just no no no no no no no no no no no no no I'm just a grain of salt like just to say that like accept I think they use tillions is the number or something like that. No one even can grasp that. Yeah, that's just based but that's a number based off of their formula too.

2:09:45Right. That's all right. What is the definition of how it works? The way it pulls from multi -multi universe. I think I'm trying to find it but I think the understanding I got from it was it's just two power photo get from our universe alone. You'd have to have more than one and I don't like that's just like what does that mean? Exactly. What does that mean? What is that thing that they have? And if you ever seen the chip itself, the chip itself is very small. Yeah. It's like the size of a salty and cracker. Yeah. And then this entire mechanism around it is just the insane amount of cooling. Okay.

2:10:24Google's quantum AI founder said the performance gains lead lend, excuse me, performance gains lens credence to the idea that we live in a multiverse. The idea is that Willow might be communicating with parallel universes to finish calculations faster. Like what? What does that mean? The announcement led Google's already high stock price to surge, which isn't that shocking but perhaps most surprising for us lay people that Google's quantum AI founder and lead Harmot Nevin said that the chip's performance lens credence to the notion that quantum computation occurs in many parallel universes in line with the idea that we live in a multiverse.

2:11:08And then it says, excuse me. This obviously is caused a bit of a stir and isn't and it isn't exactly clear on how he made that leap. It sounds a bit like something out of a sci -fi movie and I'm definitely not going to pretend I'm an expert but it's worth pointing out that Google is very much still in the theoretical research phase of this journey. This is very weird stuff. An evolving scientific field that even people working on it don't fully understand. What? Okay, here's what is a quantum computer. Let's explain this. The computer we use every day and have been iterating on for the past several decades are known or what is known as a classical computer.

2:11:51Essentially a classical computer utilizes binary as its language of choice. A bit in the smallest unit of data that a computer can store in process is like a light switch. Each bit can only be in a single state at a time on or off, which is represented by zero or one. Computers track data based on the language of bits literally anything our computers do is based on a network of on -off switches sending a particular signal. A quantum computer is a bit different. If you're familiar with a concept of superposition or Schrodinger's cat, this won't be too far of a stretch but a quantum bit or qubit is capable of representing the potential of multiple states at once.

2:12:33Rather than only recording a one or a zero, it records both because it can be both. This allows a chip like Willow, which has 105 qubits to perform incredibly complicated analytics in a fraction of a time a classical computer could. And how does it work? So let's boil it down to a very small example. If you have two bits which can return a value of one or zero, there are four potential states that it can be recorded. 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, and 1, 0. If each of these states takes one second to record, it'd take a classical computer four seconds to record every position per mutation, every possible permutation.

2:13:11A quantum computer made up of two qubits however would be able to send to record the potential of each qubit at once, meaning it could record all four possible states in one second. The real power here is achieved when you add a much higher number of qubits together and try to record every possible state. Once again, something that would take a classical computer far longer could be achieved quickly because a quantum computer could record a number of potential states at once rather than one of a time. Okay, we basically don't know what the fuck we're saying here. This is just too weird. That's okay.

2:13:47So this is what it is. One of the world's most advanced classical computers. Okay, here it is with this problem. So AI's founder and lead Hartmut Nevin said that the new chip had performed a purposefully complicated exercise called a random circuit sampling benchmark in five minutes. One of the world's most advanced classical super computers on the other hand, it would take 10 and then three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, years to perform the same exercise. That's 10 septillion years, which exceeds known time scales in physics and vastly exceeds the age of the universe.

2:14:34So it can do more time than vastly exceeds the entire age of the universe and it can do it in five minutes. The reason it can achieve such a monumental improvement in calculating capacity is because Willow is made up of 105 qubits and contract the potential of each of those at once allowing it to record potential data much faster and come to the right answer sooner. So like what is happening? That's too much information. What is what do you mean? I get it, but I don't get it. What I don't get. How does that prove the multiverse or provide evidence that the multiverse is real? Like, and that it's getting it from parallel universes?

2:15:15Like, what are we even saying? Yeah, it couldn't come up with those answers within the elotid times span that's. Yeah. What? I can't even explain. I mean, funnily enough, this is that my brother's into all of this stuff. Sean, he's in simpler language. He would probably be able to explain it to you. Sean, he's like, well, he would give it a shot. He would, certainly. I think he was one that was probably explaining it to us. In simpler language, Willow is doing one calculation while an unknown number of willows in other universes parallel to our own are doing their own calculations and they are sharing that data to avoid needing to individually do every possible calculation to finish the equation.

2:16:06What the fuck does that mean? How are they sharing data between universes? I don't know. Ask Nevin. Remember, this is all theoretical and doesn't prove anything, but Nevin is saying that the fact that the chip can outperform, outperform our best supercomputers by such a wide margin means that it might have broken Newton's theory of physics. Yo, what does it say under that, Jamie? What does this mean for me? Keep that going. Put that back on. Scroll up a little bit. Okay, this is what I wanted to look at. At this point, it's an exciting liquid computing might take one day, but it isn't something you're going to see in your next pixel phone, quantum chips.

2:16:45You'd be isolated and credibly specific chambers. Yeah, this is the thing. It's cooler than it has to be cool to a point where it's colder than outer space. Seal the way from any possible signals such as microwaves, radiation, radio signals, etc. for a fear of that noise leading to potential mistakes and have specific signals delivered by purpose -built wires. Who figured this out? Where are those eggheads? Jesus Christ. How did they even come up with that if that has to be the case? How did they figure out that you have to do that? All of it. Let's just brain down. That's one of the most humbling things that I've found about doing this podcast is realizing how genuinely dumb we are in comparison to the amount of information that's available.

2:17:31No question. And I'm saying it's not just uninformed, but incapable, even if given the information of grasping exactly what these apex minds are thinking and working on right now, along with, at the same time, people just living in Revello, just having an espresso and a cigarette and getting a slice of pizza. Maybe they realize that they just say, fuck it. But it seems like the human race desires all things. The human race desires, people like yourself who enjoy photography and travel in this beautiful experience of life. But it also sort of requires people to be at this bizarre cutting edge of science where it seems to be violating the known laws of physics.

2:18:22Like all those things, it hurts my brain. I mean, I'd love to know more. Which is think about what we're doing right now. Just think about what we're doing. Actually, we're talking to TV woks or the radio. I'm still not. How does this work? I'm still back there. What makes this louder? What makes the microphone carry our voice? How is this being encoded into like a form that's going to be instantaneously delivered to millions of people? So millions of people are hearing this right now. Like as it gets to them, not right now, but once it gets released, the millions of people that are hearing this are getting it through the sky on their phone.

2:19:02I resign. I truly resign on my level. I can't. I can't. It doesn't. No, I can't either, but it's pretty amazing. It's pretty amazing. It's a fascinating time to be alive. Fascinated by every day. And that's why with subjects that are happening with AI right now, I find it massively intriguing because there is an element to that that may allow me to understand a great deal more before it's too late. I think we're the last of the regular people. It's quite possible. I think this experience that we're having, this experience that you're having on a motorcycle with no signal, just driving through the countryside, like just being alive, I think we're the last of those people.

2:19:51I think what's even that sounds like a dream though. The whole concept of that is dream worthy. Yeah, I mean, I have a number of theories on who we are and where we came from and what do you think? UFOs. What do you think? Well, to some degree, I'd always felt even as a young kid that the UFOs were us coming back for history lessons, basically, and that the vehicles were driven by our minds anyway.

2:20:34But I mean, I've seen as Dad had also seen a UFO. I've clearly seen a UFO. I was actually, here's the weird thing, I was actually on my way to, I think, visit Dad in New York. I think it was New York, which is where he'd seen one on the Upper East Side in an apartment that I visited. I went to see him at. He's standing on the roof of this apartment where he was living at the time and, yeah, he, it's on film. He clearly says this thing came along. I can tell you exactly what it looked like when up the Hudson, went into the bridge and then zapped off. My experience, I've had two experiences, but the most profound was, funnily enough, was one of those flights on Good Old TWA.

2:21:33And I was in the front part of the plane and I'd, I would have been given because I was quite young. I'm maybe, anyway, between eight and ten. I don't know, eleven maybe. I was going to see Dad for one of the first times in the US. And the guy that was escorting me over gave me one of those, first time I did, I'd seen them, one of those books that had blank pages. I thought, wow, those, are we hit? You know, quite unusual. I'd never seen them over in England before, just these hard -backed black covered books with nothing inside. So I had one of those in the coloring set. So I was, I guess, relatively young.

2:22:26Everybody had watched the movie, everybody had gone to sleep. I was staring at the bloody window as I normally do. And I was in front of the wing on the right hand side. And I'm just staring at the stars, literally. And I kid you not. All of a sudden, I, I see your archetypal UFO with the lights around, light on top. It was silver, or, you know, have a reflective metal with white lights all the way around. It stayed there. I can't tell you how long far away from the plane was. It was right there. It was 50 feet. 50 feet from the wing of the plane. Yeah, yeah. In front of the wing of the plane.

2:23:26Did anybody else notice? Nobody else was there. Everybody else was asleep. There was no stewardesses. There was nobody was there. What about the pilots? That I don't know. Well, I know is what I saw. God, I wonder why I asked them. I just, I guess I was kind of freaked out or just okay with it. I can't even... How old were you at the day? Okay. Any, you know, 8, 9, 10, 11, something like that? And how big do you think it was?

2:24:00I would say it seemed about the radius would be about the width of this room. But what happened was, so I watched it for a few seconds, but I knew we were going along, it's somewhere in between three and 500 miles an hour. I think the old big old 747s used to reach that kind of speed. And it just started doing this, going up at the same speed. And I'm watching it through the window, going up and over. And there was nobody in the in the seats on the other side. And so I ran to the other side and was at the window like this. And it was, I was at a seat or two in front of where I actually wasn't here.

2:24:56And it came down the other side. This is on my mother's life. I came down on the other side and and sort of pitched itself there for a few seconds. Proceeded to move forward. I rel - what looked like relatively quite slow. And then literally just went and disappeared it forward. And that was that. And I, and that was at sunrise. Literally just turning to sunrise because I actually, the book I had, I drew the whole thing and the light and what it looked like. You still have those drives? Okay, now tell me about it. I don't know what happened to that, but as clear as day, as clear as day, on my life, my mother's life, I did, I did you, and this is going to sound crazy.

2:25:52Did you have a sense that that was for you?

2:26:00That you weren't just seeing something, but that maybe that was for you? I could have taken that angle. I mean, there's been moments in my life, certainly, that I felt things have happened at a particular time for me to notice things, that it was related to my life experience. I mean, half of the things I couldn't tell you what they were, but I mean, white feather was an example of that. Well, for me, that was a deadly, a sign of relevant sign that made me certainly feel that, and I'd had other experiences, that that was a real connection, a real message in directly. Yeah, well, the white feather is so profound.

2:27:04It's so intensely on the nose, that it's very difficult to dismiss it. I know there's a lot of hyperrational people that would like to dismiss it. It's just a coincidence. It's this thing. My question is, are you sure? Are you sure? I don't think we are. I think this concept of the divine, this concept of being something else has existed throughout the entire time. There's all kinds of stuff going on. I mean, I've seen, I was invited to a location where I was staying, and I had this experience where I saw quite clearly. I was on my own, again, of course, and I was looking out to the sea. This was down in Mexico, and I was literally just kind of fifting off.

2:28:10Without question, at least I believe so, I saw to me what looked like mine Indians see through, dancing around a fire. I went, what the fuck? I mean, I really kind of got a little scared. I went, what am I seeing? How am I seeing this? Why? Anyway, it was all a bit weird. The breakfast table the next day, and I'd never been to this place before. I was invited down as a guest, and the host, the host desk said, how did you sleep? Is everything all right? Did you, I said, well, I don't want to say anything, but I think I saw some sea through mine Indians last night. Oh, you didn't know that this was built on a mine Indian burial ground.

2:29:13So shut the front door. She said, that freaked me out, firstly. Then, of course, she comes back into the room with a tray of artifacts, spearheads and a few other things and other tools that they use. But then she came, she did one better. She goes and brings in a book that's a very, very thick book with the generations of mine and civilizations that have been there before. So she says, you know, have a look, and I'm flipping through the books, the book, and I see the exact headdress and skirt that they were wearing and the exact colors of those headdresses. It was two -tone. It was like an earth collar and a sky blue kind of that color.

2:30:17And that's in a particular arrangement on their headdresses and on the skirts. And I said, that's them. And they said, oh, yeah, that was that was a particular era. And that's where we got where the where the property was built on. And I just went, well, okay, all right, that just to me, I'm sorry, that just says between between the between that and the white father. And there's one or two other incidences. I just went, yeah, there's so much more shit that we don't know that lives and breeds and exist around. And there was something written the other day also, whether it's today or yesterday, saying that, you know, our ears and our eyes can only see so much, you know, humans, that there exists so much more that we don't have a clue about.

2:31:18So I'm just going, okay, there's this this if only we have to go back to the idea that eyes didn't exist at one point in time. There were single -celled organisms. Yeah, right. And so they became multicelled organisms. And then they developed simultaneous eyesight in the ocean and on land. And then this idea that your eyes allow you to see. So therefore, you're seeing everything is kind of silly because before the eyes existed, but there was no perception, not using light, there was no way you could see things. Yeah. So why would we assume that this is all that the senses could potentially interact with, that maybe we just don't have them.

2:32:05And maybe this is what I've said a lot about like psychic communication and telekinesis and all these different things. Yeah. I think they're emerging emerging properties of human consciousness that haven't achieved like a full -blown integration yet. And my my real suspicion is that the biological evolution is not going to make it there in time and that the technological evolution is going to intervene and push us just like that UFO disappeared in space. Yeah. Just took off. I have a feeling that the next leap of change that's going to happen with human beings is going to be technologically driven and monumental in a way that you won't be able to even imagine life without it.

2:32:54It's scary, but it's also it's like it's scary to not be a monkey anymore and to be in a taxi cab. Yeah. You know, it's scary. You know, that happened. You know, it's scary. It did not, you know, you have to walk everywhere and then also you're flying into plane. All that is kind of like a fly in the wall. Oh my god. I would have the fly. For me, flying the wall would be like ancient Egypt. I would love to see what was going on when they were making the pyramids. Yeah. Oh yeah. That's my number one place. The next would be what was it like when Genghis Khan was running through Asia? What was that like?

2:33:30You know, those are two. Yeah. There's a lot of unanswered things out there, but I'm a, you know, I make the odd documentaries. So I'm a documentary watcher whenever I can, really. That's sometimes it's either Anthony Bourdain or a documentary that puts me to sleep most evenings after watching them. Not during. Right. But yeah, no. So I, I, I, I, I, I thirst for information half the time, whether I retain it or not. It's another thing. But I certainly am driven to absorb. Yeah. What I can. As a, I, I think that I try to, especially as I get older, to be more open -minded and less dismissive of all this bizarre stuff like ghosts, like the, like I think what's your, what's your take?

2:34:26I think certain memories are so potent and that the energy that's created by these moments is so potent that sometimes it lingers and sometimes it's available and sometimes it's not. And it depends on the state of the people, the, the, the state of consciousness that they've acquired, the level of anxiety they're currently experiencing, the level of stress, where they are in the world, the solar cycles, the fucking, I think all these factors come into play and occasionally people see whispers of the past. Or maybe it's not even that it's the past. Maybe it's those things are happening. They're just not happening in this level of the multiverse and that all things that have ever happened or happening simultaneously all at once in this very bizarre structure that the universe is actually made out of.

2:35:21But we're only capable of seeing 3D space, what's currently available, what's in front of you right now, what am I going to eat for dinner? You know, like we have a very limited view of this thing that is impossible to grasp. Just like those numbers of septillian, whatever, it's impossible. You can't grasp it. I have a feeling that's everything. I like that, that kung fu movie, everything all at once. I think that's, there's probably a lot to that. There's probably a lot to that this isn't a binary experience. This is this probably just I just hope we get to understand some of it. It's kind of fun to not and kind of fun to like speculate one day.

2:35:59Yeah. But the question is once you do know, would that be better? Would it be better? Or is there something? I mean, do you have to know everything? Yeah, just give us a hint. What you might give us a hint. The problem is you might know everything. You know, you know, that's what they say. That's what many say. Yeah. That it's you're just remembering things. Well, that's true too, right? That information is essentially you're pulling it out of the air. Ideas, you're pulling ideas. It's only the ether who gets there first. Yeah. Well, do you feel like that way with your music sometimes? Like that ideas just sort of come to you from the muse?

2:36:34Absolutely. Yeah. I think everybody does. No question about it. Yeah. Even with photography. I think it's like there's something that tells you to capture this thing. Yeah. It's going to resonate with you. No question about it. I mean, one of my favorite pictures in the book is one called Hope and it's of this little girl in Ethiopia that I was actually there to take a photograph of this person who was cutting the ribbon to open a new freshwater well. And I just heard this noise behind me and we were under a plastic cover. It was sweltering out there. And again, because I'm shired and I don't set things up, I maybe it's like a guerrilla street shot.

2:37:24You know, and I just had this feeling that I needed to turn around and I did turn around. And I just saw this young girl just kind of looking at me like anything I can say is that again, that everything's going to be all right. But for this little girl there to kind of go, it's okay. We're going to be okay. That's the impression I got from her. It was just this look. It's kind of like that Nat Geo moment. And I literally span around, snapped the shot and turned around and never looked back again. And when I did, she'd gone. She was with a group of friends. And I didn't actually know if I'd got the shot because again, my eyesight's not the best.

2:38:23And I certainly couldn't see it properly on the back of my camera in the middle of a bloody desert. So it was only when I got back to the hotel and put it into the computer that I went, but the face to me was just like this. We're going to be okay. Yeah. I know those kind of moments give me some kind of, as I called it, hope that we'll do okay at the end of the day. But that's a very human element and a very warm embrace, which I choose to kind of take on board as opposed to think that it's anything other than that really. I share that thought. I think we're going to be okay. But I think that there has to be the possibility that we're not going to be okay for us to appreciate that we're going to be okay.

2:39:29Correct. Yeah. Correct. It's the, you know, Yang, it's the balance thing again that horrors of the world have recognized the beauty. Correct. Yeah. And I think quite a few people are recognizing that too. I mean, there's obviously some horrible stuff going on right now, but at the other end of it, there's also recognition that we should take care of each other and we should look after this place that we call home, you know. Yeah. And I don't mean in that soppy hippie way either. It's like genuine, you know, concern and love and respect for where we are. And this is, we are so lucky. I mean, we're so, so lucky.

2:40:15You know, I think it was actually a Professor Brian Cox that just goes, this is insane that we're here now, the having this experience. It's, it's, try, I mean, if you can, take that on board, try to appreciate that and feel that wonder of the fact that we exist in this time. You know, if we do, well, I think we do. Yeah. I think, well, at least in our experience, we do, you know, whatever this is. You know, there's people that believe this is a simulation. Yeah. So that one is also, yeah, boy, that's a, when, when it's explained to you by brilliant people, yeah, it becomes hard to ignore the possibility that maybe they're correct.

2:41:02Like Elon is, he said that the odds of us not being in a simulation are in the billions. Yeah. Ouch. That hurts. But wouldn't you think that though if you're simultaneously running Tesla and a rocket company and fucking, I mean, he's just, he seems like he's in a simulation, you know, and you're also the richest man of the world and you're also the number one Diablo player in the world. Like he's in a simulation. Well, he's certainly thinking he's, you want to talk about a multiverse going on at the same time. He's already there. That's for sure. Yeah. And if I was him, I would think that there's a simulation too.

2:41:40It's just because he's got a really good level of the simulation. Yeah. Like that level's fun. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. But it's also, it's like, what do you do with that information? Like if you know, like if you've decided this is a simulation, what are, what are you experiencing? Are these experiences real or is it, it's still real. So real feelings and real moments still do exist. So does it, does it change your purpose? Right. Also, does it, does it change how you feel? Does it change the people you love? Does it change, you know, but I mean, he, he certainly look at him and go, you want to talk about being a go -getter, making things happen.

2:42:26Yeah. He believes it's possible. So he, he does it. Yeah. And, you know, I think that's the same with a lot of people, obviously not to that extreme. But, you know, I think we do make our own fortune in life. Yeah. Yeah. We are some weird way. I think we are responsible partly for our destiny, for our paths in life. Do you believe in free will?

2:43:00It's a tricky one, right? Is a tricky one. Yeah. There's something there that is free will. I believe in determinism as well. You have the, you have choices. Yeah. You do have choices, but how much of your choices are shaped by your past, your biology, life experiences, genetics, you know, how much of it is, you know, there's that argument like Sapolsky makes the argument that that's going to be the one of the things that we look back on in the future as being one of the most preposterous concepts that people attach themselves to is the concept of free will. Right. And Sapolsky is like, he's fair, pretty much a pure determinism guy.

2:43:43And I don't know if that's really true. I feel like it's both. I feel like there's, there are decisions that you can make and you make these decisions and change your life, you can change the life of other people. And you know that you can do it and you're doing it through will. There's something about focusing your energy and your desires and your life goal, your path to something. That's a real thing. Yeah. And things happening in a particular time. I think it's very foolish to pretend that you know whether it's determinism or whether it's free will. I think it's foolish. I think also there's so many factors to take into consideration to dismiss any of them.

2:44:35Like to dismiss the concept of the simulation, I think, is silly. But to dismiss the concept of the multiverse also equally silly. To dismiss, to dismiss this idea that you have no free will. It's like, I'm not sure because there's something, there's something you know guides you in a particular direction that you don't necessarily always go with. So what is that? Is that pure determinism? I feel like sometimes you make mistakes and you recognize you made those mistakes and you you recalibrate and then you get to that fork in the road again. I've fucked this up before. This time I'm not going to.

2:45:11This time I'm going to move forward. Is that free will? Because it certainly seems like it to me. And that's not discounting the impact of determinism, which is all the events of your life and your biology. It has to be shared. It's a lot of different stuff going on simultaneously. I don't think you can say it's one or the other. No, I don't think so either. But people love to do that though. They want to put a stamp on something. Yeah. Well, pigeonholing. Yeah, they just love to like, I want to put this in a narrow window of understanding and dismiss all the other things to the contrary. No, open -mindedness is something that is a necessity in this strange, weird world that we live in.

2:45:53It's fun though, right? Yeah. Oh, no. Absolutely. Absolutely. I certainly have enjoyed the process. But it's funny that what you're saying, how you're saying things because it makes, it's, as you're discussing this, I'm thinking about certain choices that I've made because of certain things that have happened and certain things in the past and where I believe I should be in the future. Yeah, I mean, that's quite, I find quite an interesting one that this whole, also, concept of my mind's going blank, not enough coffee today. What do you call it when you're putting it out there? I'm really brain -dead right now.

2:46:46When you're visualizing the future and the possibility of... Manifesting your dreams. Oh. Yeah, is there some truth to that? Because that does seem to happen to a degree. It just doesn't always happen. No, I think it's a factor. Not at all. I think it's a factor. Yeah, that's a possibility. I agree with you on that. But there's something definitely to that. I definitely think. I certainly feel that I can relate certain things happening to me because of manifesting or the will to move things in a particular direction. You put your energy and your focus into something and the thing becomes real and oh my god, I'm manifested.

2:47:37How did that happen without that? But it's also work. People get this bizarre thing that if you just manifest something that it'll just occur. No, that's never the case. No, there's a ton of energy behind it that comes into that for sure. Julian, I've really enjoyed talking to you. So a lot of fun. Thank you. Like what? I got you. And I really enjoy your photography. Thank you. The book is available. Life's fragile moments. It's an awesome coffee table sized. It's heavy. Let's do this again sometime, man. Thank you. My absolute pleasure. My pleasure as well. Thank you very much. All right. Say bye everybody.

2:48:20Bye bye.