#2254 - Mel Gibson

26:58In some fashion, even if it's a heavy story, you have to find some aspect of it that entertains. And I think this for entertainment sake is just fun, and it's quick. I'm not subjecting you to four hours of like watching autism dry. Right. It's like, you know, it's 85, 90 minutes. Yeah. It's a good time. Yeah. And Mark is insane. Yeah. He's great in it. He plays a good psycho. Oh, he's a psychopath. Mark's got a good dark side. There's some dark stuff there that he was able to draw from. And every now and then he'd let it out. I can't repeat some of the stuff he'd say. In fact, we had to cut most of it out.

27:38It was like really sick. But we hint at it. Hmm. Anyway, when you make a movie now, I mean, you've had such a career. Yeah. When you make a movie now, like what motivates you at this point in your life? Like, how do you, how do you decide, let's hit the green light on this one? Yeah. Now, there are things that speak to me. And they speak for a long time. It's a, I remember when I was a kid in high school, I was studying English. And they were, where did the English language come from? And they talked about, wow, it came from this old guttural German old Norse that the Vikings brought across. And I was thinking, wow, that's cool.

28:19Vikings, you know? And then immediately I start thinking, man, somebody should make, I want to make a film about Vikings. And they only speak in old Norse because if, if they say, if they say, you know, if they speak English, all of a sudden, you're not buying it. But if they're speaking some guttural language, you're sort of scared by them. And it's like, that's scary to me. And then I said to myself, I'm 17 years old, why am I thinking about making films about Vikings? I don't know anything about making films and not much about Vikings. So why the hell am I even thinking about that? But that was something that was early on was like a drive, I guess, to sort of depict things like that.

28:59So I did films in other languages, in Mayan and in Aramaic and Latin. And there's the power to that. I noticed when I was young, I used to go and watch a lot of foreign films. And I watched French movies, right? Or German or whatever they were, Spanish. I'd watch them and I think, wow, the acting's great in those. And it seemed better because of the subtitles. Right, yeah, yeah. More believable somehow. I don't know. Right, because you're not hearing insincereity in their voice, because you don't even understand what they're saying. You just feel the emotions in the words. And it also has to take your attention, because you have to do another function, you have to read.

29:38Yeah. Which is another thing that sort of maybe blinds you to the flaws in the filmmaking, perhaps. So, you know, hey, it's a great trick. Yeah, it's an obfuscation. There's a thing about reading it while you're watching it. It's like an added element of concentration. You know, like sub -titled movies. You feel like you're a smarter person watching a movie where you're reading it as well. And there's something about the written word. It's a pretty interesting thing to throw into the mix. I know when I first started, it was kind of confusing, but then I got really good at it. And I think, especially with something like what the passion that I did, the written word was very important.

30:18Because it was, you know, you got all those books, the Bible. You know, you've got the different gospels and stuff. The people are quite familiar with half the time. They didn't even need to read the subtitles. They could look at it and know what was going on. Playoffs. We're talking about playoffs. You bet we are. Get in on the action with Draft King Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NFL. Scoring touchdowns is key to winning the playoffs. And you can score big by betting on them at Draft Kings. The number one place to bet touchdowns. Ready to place your bet? Try betting on something simple, like a player to score six.

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32:11You're going to get people going because of course it's big subject matter and it's like, you know, and my contention is, you know, when I was making it. It was like you're making this film and the idea was that we're all responsible for this, that his sacrifice was for all mankind. And that for all our ills and all the things in our fallen nature, it was a redemption. And I believe that. I actually am, you know, I was born into a Catholic family. I'm very Christian in my beliefs. So I do actually believe this stuff to the full. So depicting that was an honor, but it was also, yeah, you got the daylight to beat out of your forehead.

32:59Yeah, because there's resistance first of all from secular Hollywood. Where for whatever reason, Christianity is the one religion that you're allowed to disparage. Yeah, Christianity is the one religion where people, all these progressive, open -minded, leftist people, they'll embrace all these different religions until it comes to Christianity. And for whatever reason that represents like white male, you know, whatever it represents, colonialism, you know, whatever it represents, it's not. It's not negative. Yeah, sure, it's gotten a bad rap. And people do feel free to beat up on it. Even I do when I see it's like, you know, when it's not fair.

33:43When I think it's off. Like, you know, when they appoint some cardinal and some diocesan, he's been covering up for like people who are child molesters. You know, like Theodore McCarrick or Cardinal World or those kind of guys. Or the Pope? Yes, absolutely. I'm Benedict. Not Benny. Well, he was covering up, but like, so is the guy now. Is he really? Well, yeah. Yeah. It's not great. I thought he was like the more progressive Pope. He's very progressive, yes. But he's covering up for some as well. Well, they all are. I mean, it's a dark institution in a lot of ways because it's history. Well, you know, the institution, it was instituted by Christ, you know, but that doesn't mean that it can't be flawed.

34:27And there's a school of thought that says it isn't what it purports to be anymore. It's moved away from what it was intended to be and what it is. Almost like a guy called Bishop Vigno who says it's a counterfeit parallel church. And it's running an entirely different religion. I actually don't adhere to a post -consolier church. I adhere. Can you define what that means? Okay. There was an event that happened in the 60s. First there was an event in the Vatican where they elected John the 23rd Pope, right? In 1958, I was two years old. Right. He was elected and it was a very funny thing that happened in the Conclave.

35:22You know, usually there's white and black smoke that goes out of the chimneys to tell you, we have a Pope, you know, Habermus pop him, you know. And the white smoke came out and everybody cheered and they went crazy. And then about a half an hour later, black smoke came out. That never in history has that happened. That the white smoke came out and then the black smoke. So white smoke means we found a new Pope, black smoke means no Pope. That's right. They'd have votes or there'd be one reason or another that'd have a round in the Conclave and black smoke would come out many times, many times maybe.

35:55Maybe it would take two weeks. But never was it known that white smoke came out. Then black smoke came out. So what was the scenario that somebody was elected and that maybe something else happened and he was pushed aside that someone else was put in. So it was power struggle, some kind of power struggle. And of course, the man who came out was a man called Angela Ron Colley and he was John the 23rd. Now it's interesting to note that never had a Pope taken the name of another Pope ever before in history. But this man took the name of a known anti -Pope from the 15th century that Cosimo Dometici put in there as his own man.

36:41I'll get you on the chair and then everything will be rosy, you know. You know, go good for business, you know, whatever he was putting him in there for some corrupt reason. And there have been corrupt men in that place before. I mean, there's Alexander the 6th and Julius the 2nd and 6th is the 4th. I mean, some of these guys are, you know, they're not saints. So he took the name of a known anti -Pope from the 5th century who actually said, yes, I'm an anti -Pope. Sorry, I'm not the right guy. Because there was more than one and he confessed to being and he wanted to, you know, square things with the Almighty, I guess, so he confessed to being an anti -Pope.

37:19And so he took the same name as that guy, John the 23rd. So it's interesting, don't you think? I mean, why would he do that? Well, whenever you have that kind of power, like I'm sure you've been the Vatican, right? Yeah. It's stunning. Yes, it's huge. It's so great. When you're walking around, you see just the massive, just the dollar value in the art that they possess. Yeah. It's fucking insane. It's crazy. Yeah. And, you know, it's a very small country. It's a country. Yeah. It's a country inside of a small city. Yeah. Because Rome's not the biggest city. No. And then it's got a country inside the city.

37:59Yeah. With walls around it? Sure. And you can't extradite people? Yeah. Pretty weird. How convenient. Yeah. Even Ratsinger, he didn't drive from the Vatican to the other place. He flew. Oh. And it was only a little while. Because who knows why? I don't know. Well, he was wanted. Yes. Yeah. I mean, he had done... One of the things that he had done was he had moved a priest that had molested a hundred kids. And he moved them to some new place where he molested deaf kids. Yeah. Yeah. Boy. Yeah. Yeah. I know. That's the dirtiest, most evil practice that the Catholic Church has been accused of. I think so.

38:42And many institutions as well. Yeah. But that is a very bad one. And I think it's all part and parcel of the same corruption that crept in. And when you ask what's the difference between pre -Vaticant 2? So Vatican 2 happened. And of course they took the church and they reformed it. And they changed things in it. And it didn't necessarily agree with everything that went before it. And up to that point, yeah, you could find it agreed with itself. But all of a sudden, you got something else. To the point where now, I mean, we got a pope that brought a South American idol into the church, the worship.

39:28Really? He did. The Pachamama. He bought the South American and he got... I don't know what that is. It's kind of like a South American God Pachamama. Why would he do that? Good question. But he did. Did he have an explanation for why he did it? Yeah, it's kind of a weasel worded thing of like, oh, all religions are just as good as one another. You know, if that's his contention. He shouldn't be the pope. No. How can you be the pope if they all religions are just as good? We all worship. So, yeah, that is the Pachamama. There you go. So he brought that in. Yeah, into the Vatican. Then the hierarchy, the hierarchy even worshiped that is ceremony around it outside.

40:09What? Well, that constitutes apostasy. Yeah. That's an apostasy move. All right. Worshiping falls gods. Yeah. That's number one on the mosaic hit list. Yeah. Moses goes up on the mountain. He comes back down to people who worship him on a golden calf. Yeah. You know, it's that. Yeah. So you can't do that. And for me, that's a departure from what you know, that's called apostasy. Right. That's a falling away from it. And the very nature of apostasy means that you have to be part of it to fall away from it. So it's an inside job. Oh, no. So what do you think there's a motive behind these things?

40:50I don't think you know. Probably. What do you think it is? I don't know. But it isn't good. I think look, I think we're looking at a world where, and this is the, in the next film, I'm going to, I'm going to try and tackle this question, that there are big realms, spiritual realms. There's good, there's evil, and they are slugging it out for the souls of mankind. And my question is, why are we even important, little old flawed humanity? Why are we important in that process, where the big realms are slugging it out over us? And I think there's bigger things that play here. And institutions that purport to touch on the divine are necessarily going to be affected by that slug fest that's going on between good and evil.

41:47Right. And sometimes good gives up ground. Yeah. And maybe not on purpose. You know, maybe there's some deception involved or self deception, co -opted. Right. Every morning when I wake up, I actually pray that I don't deceive myself, because it's like, you know, your mind is a very funny place. I mean, there's, I've always said, you know, it's your second thought and your first action that you're responsible for. Your first thought. Throw it away, you know. Right. But upon consideration, second thought is what you're responsible for. Yeah. That's the difference between first degree and second degree murder.

42:26There you go. Right. Right. There's the first degree, like I'm plotting this out. And we take that into consideration when we sentence people. Sure. Like if you're a person who just, you're all a sudden you're in a fight with a guy, you didn't expect it, and you stab him and kill him, second degree murder. Yeah. But if you're like, I'm going to kill this motherfucker. I'm going to find out where he is. Yeah. And I'm going to go get him first degree. Sure. I plan a lot of murders in my life, you know. Yeah. And you will have. Yeah. And you're ahead. You plan the murder and you think, well, that's not a very good idea.

42:55But I think I could get away with it. Right. There's the second thought. Yeah. That is interesting that we take that into consideration. Yeah. That we do. Like if you've had time to think about it, you're a different kind of person than person that acts in the act. Sure. You're in your act of passion. Yeah. And I found this out. I actually spent a long time in my animal brain, which is a very horrible place to be. And when you say that, what do you mean by you spent a long time in your animal brain? You're in flight or fight. Right. All the time. You don't even sleep. It's like really not a good place to be.

43:32And if anybody looks at you the wrong way, you want to bite them. Yeah. And sometimes you say and do things that are socially unacceptable. And, you know, I went and got a brain scan by this guy called Daniel Ahman, who's this brain guy. He's against all psych meds and stuff, but he thinks like, let me have a look at your brain. And he put a radioactive tracer in me. Whoa. And to photograph my brain. It works. He works a lot of football players and guys have a brain injury. Man, it's thirsty in here.

44:03But, so he looked at my brain and he was like, and he opens the file and I'm in there with the guy and he looks up and he goes, are you okay? And he goes, first, no, first he went like this. And I said, what? And he went, are you okay? Like that. And I said, yeah, I think so. And he came over and he sat next to me, but very slowly and cautiously and said, no, you're not. And I said, what do you mean? He says, you got the worst case of PTSD I have ever seen. And I said, you mean like even worse than guys in more and shit like that? And he goes, yeah. And he says, you're not okay. Jesus Christ. And I was like, and I started to well up, you know, like, no, no, I'm not.

44:49You know, that's all I got, boy. And it was, he had a very miraculous and great remedy for it, which was to eat a bunch of fish oil, vitamin B complex, and get into a hyperbaric chamber for 40 sessions, but make sure you do at least two or three a week. It fixed my head. Really? Yeah, it got me out of that wacky place, you know? So it was something to do with nutrition and oxygen. And your brain is neuroplasticity. He explained neuroplasticity to me and how, okay, you could get brain damage and like holes in your head. And you know, can cut your ice plate rugby. I've been knocked down on the field a couple of times, you know?

45:35That explains a lot. And so it actually, you can actually heal the holes in your head. It looks like Swiss cheese. It's like horrible. There's a lot of these football players get like that too. Poor guys, I mean, they get depressed and they get depressed. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Hormonal imbalance. But two or three glands fucked up. Oh yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, not producing testosterone or human growth hormone correctly. That's correct. Yeah, depression, low energy, irritability. Irritability when it kills somebody. Terrible. Yeah. And it's just not socially acceptable. Plus I don't want to go to prison.

46:13Yeah. Well, the rugby, I bet, that's a giant factor. Yeah. I played from like 13 to probably my late teens. And you get knocked around 100%. Yeah. Yeah, there's no, if fans are about that. No helmet, no, you know. Well, people don't realize like even shots to the chest cause brain damage. Oh yeah. Yeah, that's what people are realizing now. Yeah, sure. I mean, you know, and like I'm addicted to the UFC, right? I love it. But I know that these guys are, I feel kind of sorry for them. I do as well. And one of the guys, I knew one of the guys fairly well. And usually I'm pretty immune to like, but like he was in there and he was fighting against Volanovsk, it was Brian Ortega, and he was getting his ass handed to him in one fight.

47:01He almost got him a couple of times, but like, yeah, I almost submitted him twice. Yeah, I know. But because I knew Brian, it was like my shot, it was like my son was in there. I almost started crying. Yeah. And it got to me. I was like, I should probably feel like this about all these guys, but I don't know them as well. It becomes a problem for me when I'm friends with a guy. Yeah. And then also I see when they're on the tail end of their career, and they can't take shots anymore. And then when you talk to them, you recognize the speech patterns are slurring. Yeah, I met Muhammad Ali when he was in the chair, you know.

47:34And I don't know if I could even tell this story. What he said was so funny. But he was still in there and he was still a little devil. And he was like, and he was still, he was still fucking with people. Of course. But it was like, I can't tell the story. You can't? No, man. Okay. Footnote it. Tell me later. I'll tell you later, it's funny. But it was my assistant, you know, and what he said to my assistant was like so funny. And then he said it and we over, like, whoa! And then I looked at him and he was just laughing. He was laughing his ass off. So he was still all in there, but it was hard.

48:12I guess he had the damage of being punched in. Yeah. Trauma -related Parkinson's disease. Yes. Very common for fighters. Oh my God. Oh no. Yeah. It's not good. I got knocked out in a fight when I was like 20. And it was like knocked out. Like out. And it was, you know, a walk up in the hospital. Hmm. Not good. No. Well, a few of those will explain a lot. Yes, it does. Yeah. And we didn't know that. I mean, back then. That's why it always drives me crazy to movie when someone gets hit over the head with a gun and knocked out and then five minutes later they're fighting and they're fine. You know, it's like a shot.

48:50Yeah. And they are, you know, like, kill you. You know, that always makes me laugh too, but we used to do it. Well, you kind of have to, right? Yeah. It's like part of the whole thing of telling a movie. You got to. Sure. I mean, Michelle. Michelle Docker even brains Mark Wahlberg with a fire extinguisher at one point. Yeah. He's back. You know. He's like, you know, brains him, shoots him. Oh, yeah. He's a cockroach. He can't kill him. It takes a lot more. Well, you'll find out. Yeah. But we're, you know, people used to think that concussions are just something you recover from, like no big deal.

49:25You got a concussion. Take a break for a little while. You'll be fine. You might not be fine. No, you're not. Yeah. I got a concussion at my daughter's wedding. This is really weird, okay? So she's getting married. Married a great guy. They got a great family. And a buddy of mine from Australia comes to the wedding and he goes, hey, I come up and I go to hug him. And he ducks down and he comes up and he puts his shoulder into the point of my chin. The guy weighs 240. And he puts his shoulder into the point of my chin and knocks me the fuck out. Jesus Christ. I'm like, oh, yeah. And like, for the next four months, I'm messed up.

50:02I have to get like a guy to work cranial sacral, you know, fix me up and stuff like that. It really messed me up. Fucking Australians. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. Wild folk. Horse and Germans. Wild ex -prisoners. Wild prisoner of mothering. Anyway. So this story that you want to tell about good and evil, like do you have a script or is it just a thing in your head? What is it? Yeah. Yeah, it's the resurrection story. But it's not just linear because you can't really, it's hard to understand. So it's got to be put in a framework where you answer a few other questions as well. And you have to juxtapose the event itself against everything else so that it makes some kind of sense in a bigger picture, which is a hard thing to do.

51:03And it took my brother and I about, and a guy called Randall Wallace plus my brother and I took us six, seven years to write it. So are you doing this with historians as well? You're trying to make it? Yeah. Yeah, historical stuff. Well, I regard the gospel as history. It's a verifiable history. Some people say, oh, it's a fairy tale. He never exists, but he did. And there are other accounts verifiable, historical accounts outside the biblical ones that also bear this up that the SC did exist. And the other aspect of that is that the, all the evangelists, the apostles who went out there, every single one of those guys died rather than deny their belief.

51:47And nobody dies for a lie. Nobody. Right. So that's part of what I'm doing. It's like showing nobody dies for a lie. Yeah. Well, the resurrection is the one that is the most difficult for people to swallow. Yes. That's the one that requires the most faith. The most faith in the most belief. Yeah, resurrection. Yeah. Who gets back up three days later after he gets murdered in public, who gets back up under his own power? Buddha didn't do that shit. Right. You know, so. You believe that was a real event? Yeah, I do. Yeah. What brought you to that belief? Is this something you've always had or is it something you studied it and you've come to this conclusion because of the historical accounts?

52:36Yes. I think as a child, you know, one accepts things on faith because you know, you're raised by people who are nice to you and they believe it. And my dad was a pretty smart guy. He was like, Mensa smart, you know, like real smart. Like back in 1968, he won Jeopardy, right? And then really? And then they brought all the Jeopardy winners back and he played all the winners and he beat all of them too. So he had a mind like a steel trap. And his memory was practically photographic. My memory is pornographic, but it's like, it's like his was like, I don't have that kind of mind. Right. But a more like he did math and you know, I can't add.

53:17But so as a child, you learn these things and you accept them on faith. And I still have that faith, but as I got older, I came to it through intellect and through reading and putting things together in accounts. And then a current is like in my own life, you know. I mean, just recently they verified the shroud of Turin. Have you seen that? I've been reading about it and I know that there's some contention, there's some discussion and debate about it. But they used to think that it was only a couple hundred years old. Yeah. And now they've changed that. Yeah, they said no, it is back then. They also don't understand how it was made, which to me is very fascinating because it's not paint.

54:03It's not, they don't know what caused the image itself and how that technology would have even been available. It wasn't. A couple thousand years ago. An intense light. I mean, atomic. To leave almost like a photographic imprint on a piece of cloth. Yeah. And it's wild. Pull that up, pull the shroud of Turin up. Oh yeah. It's wild to look at because it's so interesting. Oh yeah. And you can see it that it depicts a first century Hebrew male because the hairstyle was from the first century. And a Hebrew hairstyle that he was about six feet tall, that he was completely scourged all over his body.

54:46He was crucified. Um, that's the one on the left is that the one on the right is just like an artistic rendition. That's the face. Yeah, click on that one, the face, the face. Yeah, that's good enough. Good that. Yeah, that's fucking crazy. Yeah, yeah. Scourged, beaten, a crap. The wounds on the thorns, the hands, the feet, and the scourging. And the hairstyle was from the first century. And the polins that they found in the cloth were from that region. Yeah. Also, the weave was the first century weave that was typical. And another guy, an archaeologist who I knew who actually translated the passion in the Aramaic told me that if you look close, you can see that the image of a tiberious coin marks on the eyes.

55:38Now, I don't know if that's real or not. I've never actually checked that, but that there's images of tiberius on the coin. Because they would put the coins over the eyes. Yeah. So that would date it. But they have now verified that it does actually go back to that time period. For a while, they were testing pieces that had been repaired in the third century or. What is the latest on that, Jamie? I was trying to get to two different articles from within the last six months. Yeah, the Smiths on the thing. Yeah, of course. You mean, you know, which one sounded the most accurate? Well, it's such a crazy thing to even try to verify.

56:16What are you saying? You're saying that this is really the shroud that Jesus was covered in. So you're saying Jesus historically absolutely did exist. And we think that this is the shroud that covered him. Just that alone. In credulity, people's immediately, they're, they, their hackles raise. Like, wait a minute, wait a minute. And they're just, instead of like looking at it objectively, they almost always want to look at it from a point of view of disproving it immediately. But that's, you know, that science, isn't it? You have to sort of, you know, you play the devil's advocate. Yeah. And that's okay.

56:51Go for it, you know. Do you, are you aware of Graham Hancock? Oh, no. Graham Hancock is a sort of a historian that has a very, he's got a series on Netflix. He's a fascinating guy. And his career started because he was investigating these accounts in Ethiopia of the old. And then he was investigating the Ark of the Covenant. And that they believe the Ark of the Covenant is in this one church that's protected by all these monks that wind up getting cataracts and radiation disease and sickness. And they think that it's because they're protecting this Ark of the Covenant, this, this actual thing that it's an actual physical thing that's there.

57:33And if you touch it, you get a zin to it. Yeah. And that even being in its presence, fucks these people up. Maybe, maybe. Who knows? I mean, it's got to be someplace, right? They buried it, they lost track of it. Yeah. But, man, it used to be. And all the stories are, I've even touched it, you've fall over. Because it was, it's structured electrically somehow. Yeah, like what is that? What's in there? Yeah, it was. Why has it given people cancer if they're really protecting it? I think it's the actual structure of the container that's in, that is the problem. That's my phone. I could be wrong.

58:04But I think inside it, they have things from like, when Moses was like Manna and, you know, stuff like that, that they, they managed to keep from, like, for example, they say that, that Golgotha, the place where the crucifixion happened, it's called Golgotha, the place of the skull, because that's where Adam's head is buried. Really? Yes, and that it's also perhaps the same place. And it, it tells you it's kind of in the same area where Abraham almost sacrifices Isaac. Ah, so it's interesting. Yeah. And it's, and, and the cross, when in any artistic depiction, at the foot of the cross, underneath it is the skull, representing the skull of Adam.

59:05Huh. So it's interesting. Yeah. Yeah, there it is. Yeah. That's the skull of Adam, huh? Yep. Wow. Place of the skull, memory, myth, in the chapel of Adam. What did you find on the shroud of tour in Jamie? Both of those articles, Jed, just asked like one person, like one researcher thought it was, another researcher based off of their research that it wasn't. Can you put it to the one that thought it was? Um, so the one that thought it was, is a, like a nuclear researcher? A nuclear researcher, Jesus Christ. The one was like a AI artist from Brazil. Yeah. So I don't know who has the most. So it says, study published in the journal Heritage, the authors conducted dating, work on a sample from the shroud, coming to the conclusion that it may be a 2000 year old relic.

59:56The shroud was long with the subject of intense scrutiny, features a faint image of a man. Some believe is the body of Jesus miraculously imprinted onto the cloth, while the latest study does not discuss. The question of whether or not the artifact was indeed Jesus' burial shroud, specifically the authors did find its age is roughly consistent with his time. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. I think isn't the Smithsonian guy old for it? I don't know. Maybe that's him. I don't know. But, uh, yeah. There's foreign against, there's always been. Yeah, always. It's just, but the, but the, but the image is like, yeah.

1:00:35It's pretty crazy. Yeah. Whatever it is is pretty crazy. And the fact that they don't know how they made it is also pretty crazy. Yeah. It's not a painting. No. Not exactly sure how it even came about. Yeah. It had to have been some kind of intense light. Well, the thought was that even trying to replicate something like that today would be incredibly difficult to do. Sure. It's like an x -ray vision. Yeah. It's like an x -ray. That's what it, you only see, you really see it in the negative only. Right. You know, it's like a negative. Yeah. Hmm. Hey. I buy it. But, but that's not the only reason I buy it.

1:01:11I mean, I think, you know, there's other logical reasons why I, why I believe. So, look at what are those. Oh, okay. Stuff that happens in your own life. The results you get from actually appealing to a power greater than yourself, you know. And, I mean, I don't think it's any secret. I am flawed in the fact that I am by nature born an alcoholic. Right. I did drugs. I did alcohol. So, and there was nothing that could stop me from doing that. Nothing. So, I was really kind of on, you're on a downhill run. So, I regard the fact that I was able to appeal to something greater than myself to help me and actually stop me doing that.

1:02:03I think that's a miracle. Hmm. It is, for me it is. And for many. You know, so. Well, that is the thing about AA, right? It's a part of the whole process is appealing to a higher power. Sure. It's spiritual, poor girl. Yeah. Because you're suffering your spiritual malady, you know. Yeah. So, it's a spiritual cure. And that's the essence, I think, of why it works. Because you can't explain it otherwise. I mean, you kind of can. But, um. I think what you're being asked to do is to think about other people and other things more than yourself. Because it's kind of an ego disease. Yeah. So, if you...

1:02:49That is the problem with addiction, right? It's a very narcissistic. Very narcissistic. Because you're constantly thinking about yourself and what you need. I need a drink. I need a bump. I need, you know, I need something. Sure. I need to have, or, and no matter what you need, it's never going to be enough. Right. Right. So, you actually have to appeal to something outside that you consider bigger and better than yourself. Which instantly kind of pushes you more in the direction of humility. Yeah. Because you're not the center of the universe anymore. Right. And that you can't do it. And the first step in any of that sort of stuff is accepting that you are powerless over it.

1:03:28That's the first... That's the most powerful step you can do is that you're powerless. When you realize that, you're like, okay. Yeah. There's fuck all I can do about this. I have to appeal to something better than me. And that to me is a miracle. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's a very uniquely human thing. The ability to course correct. And also just the concept of addiction in the first place. Sure. You know, it's a very uniquely human thing that we all know that there's dark roads. Our mind can go down. And then we wonder, like, what is the purpose of these dark thoughts? What is the purpose of this destructive behavior that we're all prone to in some way shape or form?

1:04:06What is the purpose of everything? Yeah. I mean, like, right. I mean, why am I here? What's the meaning of this? Yeah. I'm looking for purpose and what is it we're here for? I think, you know, we have to leave some stuff. But you have to leave some good stuff. You can leave plenty of bad stuff, you know? And we're all prone that way. I often think about, you know, the human race as a whole. You know, you think about guys like, you know, Stalin or Hitler or Chairman Mao. And I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be sharing a cell in the afterlife with those guys. Right. I don't know where I'll be on the ladder.

1:04:47But... Depends on how you end up, right? Well, that's it. Yeah. It really is. It's like, you know, and we're allowed to make mistakes. And we do. We are so flawed. And I'm more flawed than anyone, you know? But it's something that you, I think. And it's pretty safe to say I'm in the Third Act now. You're an Act 2, right? Because it's an entire... But I'm like, I'm in the Third Act, man. So you have to think about the other side. Yeah. You have to think about what comes next. Is there a next? Yes, there is, I believe there is. And I think it's... Depends on how you live now. And the beauty of believing is that...

1:05:39Even for your transgressions, you can be forgiven. And you can be redeemed. But it's all up here. Right. You know, is the true acceptance and understanding of what you've done, and what you should do. Sure. You have to look at yourself, honestly. Yeah. Absolutely, honestly. You have to be able to accuse yourself and understand that there is... It's a great deal of mercy involved in the fact that I believe that God sent his son down to tell us, okay, I'm going to ransom you people from your fallen nature. And I'll give you a roadmap on how to do it.

1:06:28And people do it. There's even people that do it that I've never even heard of it. You know, some guy in the jungle, some place, I'm sure. Right. You know, because the creator is above the law. It's an interesting fact to note that the first canonized saint, you know who it was? No. The first ever confirmed canonization as the saint was dismiss. You know, dismiss was. No. He was the thief on the cross next to Jesus. Oh. And he says to him, you're going to be okay this day. You'll be with me. Unbaptized criminal. Oh, let's stuff. So the lawmaker is above the law. So there's a lot of mercy. What about people that never experience Christianity?

1:07:26What about the uncontacted people? That's what I'm saying, something in the jungle. Yeah. It's been known that it's called invincible ignorance because they don't know what the truth is. You know, it's possible that they can be saved as well. So what are your thoughts on evolution? Wow.

1:07:56The Darwin thing? Yeah. I don't really go for it. No. Yeah. I say dinosaurs, you know, what did they turn into? I mean, things became extinct at some point. I don't think I was some kind of like, you know, legless thing to crawl out of the ocean. I don't think I came from that. I think I was created. Do you think other things were legless things that came out of the ocean? Do you think like multi -celled organisms came out of single -celled organisms? And there was some sort of a natural selection and random mutation. And it led to everything else but us? Sure. Look, again, a function. Right. You can like, you can make stuff happen.

1:08:45I'm sure stuff did happen. But I think it's all part of creation. I think it's all ordered. I think anyone left anything left to itself without some kind of intelligence behind it will devolve into chaos. And so that there has to be some big intelligence that orchestrates everything. Not that we don't have chaos in the world, but I think that's our own making.

1:09:11But what do you think separates us from all the other creatures? Wow. I think we have a soul. We're created with a soul. And, you know, I went to a restaurant last night. It was a steakhouse in Austin. And it was interesting because all the pictures on the wall are pictures of animals that look resentful. Like cows and steers staring at you looking at people. As you rip into a steak. But I just believe we are higher than those creatures because we have a soul. We have an intellect above theirs. And we aspire to higher things. We have aspirations. And, you know, this is part of why people drink and smoke and do dope and all this kind of stuff is because they're looking for a spiritual experience.

1:10:03They're looking for like they actually call alcohol spirits. I mean, it's they're looking for something higher. And I think we all have that yearning in that we want to be happy. And we want to be at peace. And we want everything to be a hunky door. So there's this yearning in building all of us for that to aspire to something greater. And that's why we're inspired by stories. I think because it's like, you know, hero stories, you know, Joseph Campbell's stuff, the hero of thousands of faces and stuff. It's like these stories inspire us. I mean, I always had a party the other day in Tennessee.

1:10:47And you think Tennessee, what's going to happen there? It's going to be squeal like a pig. No. Man, there's some people live in Tennessee. Sure. But like amazing people. And I found myself in a conversation with four Tier One dudes, all of who did something extraordinary. And it was that Tom Slatter's Lee guy, it was the black Hawk Down guy. There was Sean Ryan, who's he's got you probably heard of this guy. Yeah. Friend of his. Yeah. Right? Yeah. There was a guy called Christian Craighead. You know who that guy is? No. And then there was Eddie. They wrote a book about him. Eddie Gallagher. Yeah.

1:11:29Eddie Gallagher. I was talking about four of these guys at the same time. And I didn't know who to, who do you even talk to? But their stories are amazing, especially, and the one guy I ended up talking to was an SAS guy. British SAS. He just looks like a bank teller. But he did something extraordinary and incredibly brave. And with no regard for himself, only regard for other people. And it was like, whoa. You hear these stories. And it's sort of just like, it pumps you up. You think, what could I do that? Could I be that person? I don't know if I could. I don't, in a way, I don't even want to ever find out.

1:12:13Because you have to be in an extreme situation. But hearing about other people and how they behave in situations that are difficult is very inspiring. So, you know, it's, yeah, there's so many of those stories about, and through history. Well, that's another unique thing about human beings is that we learn from others in a very extraordinary way. And that's one of the reasons why we like stories. Yeah. Why we like myths and fables, because there's lessons you can apply to your own life without having to actually go through those things. Yeah. Well, that's right. I made a film about that guy, Desmond Dawes.

1:12:54You know, I don't know if you saw it. It was like Hacksaw Ridge. It was this film. And it was about a medic who figured so much killing going on. He's going to go into the battlefield and save lives. And he didn't have a weapon. And he was in the worst place on earth. And he got a congressional medal of honor because he kept going in to the worst place possible and dragging wounded guys out with no regard for himself. I mean, who does that kind of stuff? Right. And over and over again, he didn't just do it once. He did it hundreds of times. He finally got, you know, hit with shrapnel and a bunch of other stuff.

1:13:33But he lived to be an old man. But wow. And it was just pure faith. You know, so, you know, those guys, those kind of stories inspire the hell out of me anyway. So when back to this idea of evolution, so do you believe that evolution exists in animals? Hmm. But do you think there's some sort of a natural selection process or do you think that it is all intelligent design?

1:14:07Well, I think everything was created. Right. And maybe things do move on and adapt and change through time. But I think that that's a function of an intelligence also. And I mean, look at the fires in LA, you know. I mean, what's that going to do? It's going to give me a new house, you know, maybe, maybe. And are a new place to live? Yeah. Something. Yeah, I'm just not totally convinced. I feel it. And I can't really, I'm sorry, I can't intellectually tell you why I don't believe in evolution, but I don't. It's just a feeling. I don't think I was some ape or I don't think my ancestors were. I think they had to be pretty smart to survive.

1:14:53So what do you think all these prehuman hominids are that they keep discovering? Like what, tell me what a prehuman hominids are. Like Australia, Pithicus or some of the other human like creatures that never made it like Denisovans, Neanderthals. Yeah, yeah, stuff like that. Okay, well, they've got something called Zinjantthropus. You remember him? No. Zinjantthropus man. And he was like, hmm, you look kind of like this. But he was like, they, they looked at it and they did some core samples on it. It was put out there by people advocating evolution. And they discovered that it was a human skull attached to the jaw of an ape.

1:15:31Oh, I do remember this. So it was a hoax. Yeah, there's been some hoaxes. Yeah. Yeah. But there's also been real stuff. Really? Yeah, you don't think so? Well, maybe. Well, what? Well, you know, like, I don't know, tell me. Well, what was that one that we looked at the other day that was one of the first pre -humans that buried their young or buried their dead rather? It was a homo, nonal, nonal, nonal, what was it? Remember that? Yeah, I can't remember how to say it, but no lady. Yeah, the pre -human homided, very small creature that buried the dead. They buried their young or buried their dead rather keep saying, they buried their young, they buried their dead.

1:16:16You know, Australia, Pithicus. There's a bunch of different, you know, the Lucy skeleton. There's a bunch of different pre -human hominids. Yeah, maybe they're monkeys, I don't know. Yeah. Well, there was, they're similar to us, just not where we are. Yeah. They're on the road to becoming what, what it means to be a human being. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what do you think those are? I don't know. They could be animals, or they could be like, look at today. I mean, you can get some mosquito can bite you and your kid can be born with a malformed skull or something. It's like, you know, they have those, you know?

1:16:50Yeah, but this is like a genetic thing, like they've done, they've mapped the genome of these creatures. Oh, they have? They're different. Yeah. Well, I don't know how to explain those, Joe. I don't know. But. But you do think that human beings were created. Sure. I do. When do you think that happened? When. Probably a, and not that long ago. Really? No, not really. Like what do you mean by not that long ago? Probably only about 8 ,000 years ago. Really? Yeah. So what do you think things like gobeckly tapay are when they find these constructions that are dated, carbon dated to 11 ,000 plus years old?

1:17:29I question carbon dating. Really? Yeah. Well, that makes this a lot simpler. Well, yeah, there's a lot of money in, you know, claims. Really? Water's there. Well, carbon dating seems to be pretty rocks out studies. Yeah. I mean, science, the science behind radio carbon dating and detecting carbon isotopes. It's like, that's pretty, yeah, pretty legit. Yeah. I don't know. I can't square it. Yeah. Well, you don't have. And I don't have to. Yeah. And what differences are you going to make to me? Yeah, that's the thing. It's, uh, it doesn't make a difference in terms of your experience in this life on Earth.

1:18:16No. Like you, you can have your faith and your ideas and live a great life from beginning to end. And it might not suit you to really ponder evolution in all the puzzles and problems. No. It doesn't. Yeah. No. And I just like, you know, I look at all sorts of stuff like that. Like, you know, the, you know, the icebergs melting and the water overflowing. It's not. Ever have it a glass full of ice and watch it melt? Did you ever see the glass flow over? No. Takes up less room, you know. Yeah. You know, the hot greenhouse, whatever. Well, there's a lot of horse shit that's involved in climate change for sure.

1:18:54I've studied that and I've had many discussions over the last four years. The problem with anything is that once a narrative gets established and then there's a profit attached to the solution to that narrative. Yes. And that's green energy and green energy bills and there's businesses that are wrapped around there. And then there's also this fear that they love to pump into people about climate change. That, you know, they terrify the shit out of young people that we're going to destroy. The world and climate change, you must act now. And then you become beholden to the political party that it's espousing these ideas.

1:19:26And then your enemy is the deniers of this science, even though you don't even understand the science. Yeah. And did you see the Washington Post article that they published recently about temperature change on Earth? No. Well, there's a down, like what they've realized is over the last, you know, X amount of thousands of years that the temperature on Earth is plummeting. Yeah. And it's dropping. And then when they look at the dips, this is the most important thing for anybody that's really freaked out about climate change. There's no static temperature of Earth ever. There's never been a time where it maintains a temperature until human beings came along and fucked it all up.

1:20:10That is just not real. Before human beings ever existed, if you trust these core samples, there's been a giant rise and fall and this constant dip. There it is. Scientists have captured Earth's climate over the last 485 million years. Here's a surprising place we stand now. Look at the dip at the end. Whoa. That's where we are. Yeah. That's reality. Okay. And then if you look at the course of history, you look at the rise and fall, like it's never a straight line. Way before human beings ever existed, if you believe these silly people. Way before human beings had ever existed. There's always this rise and fall and this idea that the whole thing is based on carbon emissions from human beings is total bullshit.

1:20:56It's not true. We might be having an effect, but we're having a small effect, a very small effect. And the other things are completely outside of our control, including solar activity, the distance between the Earth and the Sun. There's a lot of factors. There's all sorts of factors involving natural activities, volcanic emissions, which devastate. The entire human race was knocked down to a few thousand people at one point in time because of the Tobal volcano. Oh my God, yeah. Yeah, no light. Yeah, no light for years. Good luck. Yeah, yeah. Good luck. And the people that survive are fucking barbarians.

1:21:37Yeah. This is the most savage. And then they take a long time before they can figure out civilization again after that. It's like dinosaurs. They just stop. So what are they evolving to? Chickens. I guess. Birds, raptors. Well, they think a lot of dinosaurs had feathers now. Yeah. That's the newest thing. Yeah. Maybe. You don't think so? I don't know. I need to take a pee. I'm so excited. Let's take a pee. We'll take a break. We'll bring it back. I need to take a pee. It'll. It's a nice picture. It's. That's got to be a moment in your head where you're just like every now and then just going to fuck.

1:22:14Yeah, yeah. It is funny. Yeah. But it was a good picture. The only thing it was going through my head was. Okay. I just can't look bad. And I didn't have anything. No grooming implements. So I just tried to try to my best to not look too bad. Yeah. Talk about humility. Like what gives you more humility than being publicly humiliated? Sure. Yeah. Public humiliation. And you know what? Most for most people, it is their number one fear. Sure. It's public humiliation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Public speaking and because of that, public humiliation. It happens all the time. Because we're so concerned about other people's opinions of us.

1:23:06I guess. Yeah. Because we're not sure of our own opinions about it. Well, it's been through a lot. Well, so of you. Yeah. I mean, I remember, you know, I think they were giving you grilling ones for taking horseworm medicines. Yeah. Funny. Yeah. Funny how that works. Funny how that does work. Yeah. Yeah. What's really funny is how that was that, a part of the demise of mainstream media. Because people were like, well, this is crazy. This doesn't make... Are you guys really the news? Like, what is this? Yes, I know. You know. They seem to be... They seem to be complicit with a... Or 100 percent.

1:23:41And you know, you think, well, why? Well, why? Because of money. I think this is what we're talking about before that there is good and evil. Yeah. And sometimes it manifests itself in a very clear and obvious way. And I think that's what that was. That was evil. That was putting people's lives second and putting money first. Well, I don't know why Fauci is still walking around. How is that guy still walking around? I don't get it. If just people understand the history of the AIDS crisis and what that guy did back then. Did you read that book? Yeah. Yeah, I read that book. I listened to it. Yeah.

1:24:12I drove up to San Francisco and I listened to it and I had road rage. Oh, yeah. And it was like, whoa. How is he still there? Well, first of all, people that don't believe it, how come RFK Jr. didn't get sued? Yeah. How come there's no lawsuits? If there was a lies, there would be lawsuits. No, but that's true. It would be publicly humiliated. Instead, they kept that book off bestseller lists. That book sold millions of copies. I know. They hid it. That's when you find out that bestseller lists are actually curated. It's not really bestseller. Yeah. It's censored. It's also censored. Yeah. Everything's censored.

1:24:44But that book is an accurate depiction of what Anthony Fauci did during the AIDS crisis. Yes. Probably was an AZT crisis. Yeah. And now it was an AIDS crisis. I mean, it's fairly incontrovertible now that he was fooling with gain of function. 100%. And you know, it's a, you know, what are the, why is he still around? Right. Or at least free. Right. Right. And no repercussions. Yeah. Whatever happened at that story where, you know, the Wombat and the Weasel got together and the horse and around and a bat pissed on him with the golden shower. Yeah. And all of a sudden it was in a wet market. Yeah.

1:25:21Very wet market. You got, you know, complete total horse shit. And totally the scientists that were supposed to trust pitching that horse shit. It was like the AIDS thing. Some green monkey bit of quantist steward on the ass. And he went around the world and got everybody sick and it was like, you know, ridiculous. If you want to go to the AIDS rabbit hole, look up a guy named Peter Doosberg. Oh, yes. I know. Yeah. I read that book. Yeah. That is crazy. Yeah. He's telling the truth. This is the fucking COVID crisis times a thousand. Yeah. I had him on the podcast way back in the day. It was one of the earlier guests that I had.

1:25:52It was like way back in like 2010. It was one of the first times I got openly attacked for someone being on the podcast. There was like blood is on your hands. I'm like, first of all, no, it's not. It's 2010. Who's dying of AIDS? Zero people. Yeah. So stop. It's not bloods on your hand. Like if this guy's correct, he's a tenured professor at the University of California Berkeley, who is like his work on cancer is, you know, everybody thinks it's groundbreaking work, brilliant doctor, but he was a heretic. He was a guy who stood outside of Fauci's doctor and in the narrative and he said, I don't believe that HIV is what's causing this when all these people that are having these immune systems are all heavy drug users.

1:26:34You know what I'm saying? He's like, I think this is a disease of a decimation of the immune system due to heavy drug use. And then on top of that, you're prescribing this chemical, this AZT that kills people. Yeah. They stopped using it for chemotherapy because it was killing them quicker than cancer was. I was in the Sydney Theatre Company in the 90s and I was going to a few and were once a month, a friend. They were all dying. It's crazy. And in the 80s and 90s. And they were all getting AZT? Yeah, maybe. Yeah. I don't know. Well, the ones that were getting AZT, even the ones that were asymptomatic, like magic Johnson.

1:27:17They were giving magic Johnson AZT. He had to stop taking it. Yeah. Because he was making him sick. It was killing him. Yeah. Yeah, I read it. And like it's even with RFK's book. And he's an amazing guy. People say, he's kooky. He's crazy. He's not crazy. He's not. He's one of the most erudite, you know, they say he's an anti -vaxxer. He's not. He's not. He's like, he's a very shrewd. He's never lost a case, I don't think, when he brings something to suit. I don't think he's ever been defeated. But that book is not just him. It's him in about a thousand highly qualified scientists and physicians commenting on the whole situation.

1:27:54So when you read it, it's a pretty convincing document. And you're right. Nobody sued him for it. Yeah. You know, it's pretty scary. Well, not only did they not sue him, they're responses to try to ignore it. They don't want to debate him on it. They don't want to do anything. They want to just ignore it and hope it goes away. But it doesn't go away. And the more people talk about it, the more people read it. And when you do read it, and you go, if this is true, what the fuck is going on? And how is that monster still loose? Yeah. I don't know. And he seems like a monster. The way he talks about things, he just seems.

1:28:26Well, first of all, there's so many instances of him lying. There's so many like where he said one thing two years later, it turns out to be a lie. Said what, like whether it is the natural thing. Yeah, the mask thing, whether it's the natural spillover, you know, the lies about gain a function to Congress, you know, when he was lying to Rand Paul about whether or not they did gain a function research. Like how was that not perjury? How is he not in trouble? Yeah. Well, hey, other mysteries, you know. Well, then the Biden administration is now talking about taking that guy and giving him a full pardon.

1:29:01It's like fucking crazy. Yeah, they might. Yeah, he gave 100 of pardon. Yeah, but, but hunters, 100 is a need of pardon. Was he indicted? Well, I mean, he was in trouble for tax evasion. No, I see. There's a lot of tax problems. He, he definitely did some uncool things. And then there's the barisma thing. But the crazy thing about his pardon is, it starts at the time of him being involved in barisma. So it's from 2011 all the way to today. That's what he pardoned him. It's the biggest sweeping pardon that anyone's ever received ever. And Biden's pardoned more people than anybody ever too. Yeah.

1:29:44He was already over 8 ,000 people pardoned. Yeah. A lot of criminals on death and all that stuff. Well, there's that. And, but then there's also people that like the kids for cash, judges, you know, where they were locking up kids and putting them in child detention centers because they wanted money. And they were doing it for kickbacks. Yeah. I saw that. Evil documentary. Yeah. Evil. Again, what we're talking about, good and evil. Yeah. Like there, there's a real things and rational people that profess themselves to be intelligent and secular. They don't want to believe in good and evil. They don't think that they're, they just think people do bad things.

1:30:23People have motivations. They do bad things. But they don't want to believe in the concept of good and evil because these are biblical concepts. They are. Right? Yeah. And I, you know, they've been around since the beginning. And people want to pretend they're smarter than the people that sort of embrace these biblical concepts. Right. Or, yeah, I think that goes into evolution again. Are we smarter than our grandparents, you know? I don't know. Well, we are about some things, but we can't survive the way they did. Nope. They are obviously intelligent. Yeah. It's just they didn't have access to information the way we do, but there's a difference between information and intelligence.

1:30:58Sure. Yeah. I don't have many devices for information. I read books. I read mostly history books. Yeah. Yeah. I got to recommend a book to you. Okay. It's fascinating. And it's, I, it's called the Frontiersman. And it's about a guy called Simon Kenton. You're here, this guy? No. Whoa. And it was written by a guy who's now deceased. His name is Alan Eckert. And it is really about opening up Ohio and Kentucky in places like that. With this guy, Simon Kenton, who was just an Irish immigrant. He wasn't much for farming and stuff, but he thought he killed a guy. And so he ran away because he thought he'd be indicted for some crime or something.

1:31:51And he ended up being this Frontiersman. And it is, it's a very interesting document because you get the history of what was going on at the time when the country was opening up between the settlers and the Indians, you know, the Shawnee. One of the most brutal books I've ever read. Really? Oh. It's, it's very well done. And it has a narrative, but it's reconstructed from his, you know, kinds of historical documents. And letters and diaries and all this kind of stuff. So I think the guy took about 15 years to sort of compile all this stuff and write it. And the first half of the book is about this guy, Simon Kenton.

1:32:31And the second half is about Tacumza, you know, the chief. Really great book. One of the, one of the most fascinating books I read. You can't put it down. Really? Yeah. Because it's just like, it's like little chapters. I'm going to get that right now. Yeah. If you ever read the Empire of the Summer Moon? No. The Empire of the Summer Moon is about the Comanche. Oh, yeah. And it's all about the settling of this area. Right. It's fucking incredible. And again, one of the most brutal books ever. So this is the Frontiersman. The Frontiersman by Alan Eckert. Yeah. I'm going to check that right now so that I make sure that I have it.

1:33:12Yeah. And it's all in a little bite -sized chunks. And it actually, for a history book, it has this incredible narrative with heroes and villains and all the players. Very interesting document. I'm getting it right now. Oh, yeah. Don't read it before bed. No? No, it gets pretty dark. What? Why are you so drawn to history? I don't know. I think because maybe I'm trying to learn something. It's been about 80 years since the last big war.

1:33:57Alan Eckert got it. I think I just want to learn. I mean, my dad went to World War II. He went to Guadalcanal, right? He got bit by mosquitoes yet. Malaria, which is interesting to note that he used to take hydroxychloric when he get in malaria. That's crazy. And then when my doctor recommended I get it when I had COVID, they gouge me 800. It used to cost him 30 bucks. They wanted 800 bucks for it. They were gouging. Well, not only that, when Trump talked about it, then all of a sudden, they demonized it. Yeah, yeah. They laughed. Yeah. Which is crazy, because it's an antiviral. It works. Yeah, it works on malaria.

1:34:39Yeah. Yeah. And people have been taking it forever. Sure, pregnant women can take it if they have the flu. And it doesn't hurt the baby. Yeah. It's pretty safe. It's like I've remected it. But that's what's so bizarre about the time that we just went through, because there's more information now available to people instantaneously than ever before. You look it up on your phone, instantly know, oh, I've remected it. The guy who created it won the Nobel Prize. Yeah. 2014. Yeah. 2015. Yeah, for using human beings. Yeah. So what the fuck is going on? Yeah. Like, who's running this thing? And it's harmless.

1:35:09And it wasn't made for horses. It was made for people. And then they used it for horses. So it's like saying pen and cellulinous for horses, because they use that on horses too. Like, that's stupid. They told me it was from moldy bread. That's what it was from, yeah. But I mean, there's a lot of medications used on animals too. You can't say it's a veterinary medication, just because it's also used on animals. No, that's true. It's been used on literally prescribed billions of times on human beings. Yeah, it's like the stem cell stuff. They started using it on horses with emphysomatic lung conditions, race horses, because they would bleed.

1:35:42And they got the stem cells from the umbilical cords of their offspring injected it into them, and it healed their lungs, which is part of my story. Because I smoked for 45 years, and I couldn't stop. And I read this silly book by Alan Carr, not the little guy who managed the village people in the Kaftan, little fat guy. But no, this other guy, Alan Carr, and he wrote this book. And it's the only thing that made me stop. It worked like crazy. But the book made you stop? Like what was it? The book made me stop. We're in this book. It was the book called The Easy Way to Stop Smoking. And it's a silly title, right?

1:36:21And it sat on my son gave it to me. He said, stop smoking dad. Here's here's this book. I left it on. I used to walk past the book shelf. I got a dumb book, dumb title. And then I finally, my doctor said, you have first stage emphysema. And I'm like, you got to be kidding me. He says, yeah, you got to get the smile. I gotta read this book. So I read the book and I stopped. So it was, I think it was like neurolinguistic programming or something like that. You read it and you're kind of self hypnotized yourself. But it worked. What did the book tell you? It didn't tell you you're bad. You're gonna die.

1:36:57It didn't tell you all that sort of stuff. It was like, I mean, they had things like, maybe I'm blowing it, but they had a chapter where it says, okay, we focused on the negative aspects of smoking. Now we're gonna talk about the good aspects of smoking in the next chapter. And then you turn the page and the page is empty. And it's just a trick. It's a mind trick. The whole thing was a mind trick, but it worked. And I don't know why it worked. But it was sort of like self hypnosis while you're reading the book. And it wasn't a negative thing like, I gotta stop this. It's bad, it's bad. I'm scared.

1:37:33It wasn't even that. In fact, if I hadn't had the stem cells afterwards, my lungs completely healed from that, by the way. Did it do it intravenously? Yeah, intravenous. And it gets stuck in your lungs. And it was this doctor -reared. That was reared, and we talked, yeah. Yeah, it worked. Stem cells are incredible. And the fact that you can't get them the way they can get them in overseas. The way you can get it in Panama, where reared and has this clinic. Yeah. Tijuana, they're getting better here. They're getting better, but there's so much resistance because the FDA, yeah, sure. And the resistance is purely because of money.

1:38:04It's, again, it's an evil thing. It's not because they're not effective. It's not because they're dangerous. It's just because of money. I think so. And there's an agenda. I think, you know, pharma wants to keep you on stuff. Yeah. I want to sell you something. So if there's a surefire cure for something, it's not necessarily hailed. No. Well, and then there's also the problem of the media. The media is locked step in with these businesses that are promoting these things. Yes. And they're not giving you information. They're giving you propaganda before they're giving you information. Propaganda is more important to them than information.

1:38:41Yeah. And that's what's crazy. It's like we're counting on you guys and you fucked us. You fucked us for four years with this COVID thing. And now you expect us to listen to you about the fucking swine flu or the bird flu or whatever other thing you're trying to freak us out about, which always coincides with some sort of a political event. Like here it is, the inauguration of the new president. And oh, look at this. There's a new disease. What do we got now? What is it now? Do you think there will be? Well, there is this fucking swine flu. Each five and one whatever. I thought it was bird flu.

1:39:14One bird flu. One person died. One person in America, first person died. 65 years old with a bunch of comorbidities. Yeah. Which is usually what it is. But by the way, 65 people with a bunch of comorbidities die all the time of nothing. They die of anything. Any, I mean, this is like a car that's fallen apart and you run over a nail and oh, the nail killed the car. And all that car was falling the fuck apart. Yeah. The nail you ran over was the last nail in the coffin. But the thing was falling apart. I got COVID from my gardener. And he had it first. And then I got it. I was like, ah, did I grab the hose?

1:39:51Or what, you know, well, I don't know. But it was, I knew the guy for 20 years. And we both went to the same hospital. And he died and I didn't. Jesus. I think we both got remdesivir. Which is not good. Not good. Because this kidney failure. I know. I couldn't walk for three months after I had that stuff. Really? Because it kills you. I found that after it was it kills you. And that's why I wonder about Fauci, you know. Oh, you should wonder about that guy. Well, meanwhile, they were trying to stop people from getting monoclonal antibodies. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, they restricted monoclonal antibodies, which is fucking insane because they wanted to promote that vaccine because they wanted a profit off of it.

1:40:31Which brings us back again to evil. Evil's real. It's real. Putting money over human lives is evil. I agree. It's a real thing. And there's a temptation to do it too, which is even more crazy. I don't believe that there is anything that can afflict mankind that hasn't got a natural cure for it. I think that there has to be. It just makes sense to me. Now, I couldn't prove that, but I just believe that. Yeah. That there's got to be something that cures things. And I'll tell you a good story. OK. I have three friends. All three of them have stage four cancer. All three of them don't have cancer right now at all.

1:41:16And they had some serious stuff going on. And what did they take? Yeah. Jesus. They took some what you've heard they've taken. Ivermecting. And Ben Dizzle. Ben Dizzle? Yeah. That's it. I'm hearing that a lot. They drank hydrochloride, something or other. There's studies on that. There's now where people have proven that they've drinking methanol and blue and stuff. Yeah, methanol and blue, which was a fabric dye. Yeah. Yeah, it was a textile dye. Now they find it has profound effects on your mitochondria. Yep. Yeah. The stuff works, man. There's a lot of stuff that does work, which is very strange.

1:41:56Because again, it's profit. When you hear about things that are demonized and that turn out to be effective, you always wonder, well, what is going on here? How is our medical institutions? How have they failed us so that things that do cure you are not promoted because they're not profitable? That they can't control it. They don't have a patent on it. Whether it's vitamin D, K2 and magnesium. Yep. Well, yeah. I'm zinc and corset too. I do all that stuff. Did you do the break of thing? Yeah. Yeah. Me too. I lost 30 pounds, right? It's fantastic. I was talking to Dana and he said, oh, you know, I was like, and I said, yeah, I got to do something about this.

1:42:38I'm like, I'm 5 '10, 2 '35, you know? That's too fat. Yeah. So I had to sort of roll it back some. Now I'm under 200, which is about average. That's great. It should be, you know. But, and it was that breakfast stuff. No, Gary's a national treasure. Yeah. Jumping a cold. Jumping a cold. Jumping a cold. Jumping all over the place too. Oh, sure. Going to sauna, but I feel better. Oh, yeah. Oh, I do all that stuff. Yeah, yeah. Cold -planned sauna. I'm ritualistic with it. Yeah, that's good. It's part of my everyday life. I hear your cold -plunge is like 30 -40, I don't understand that though. I mean, dude, I'm 34 degrees.

1:43:13Yeah. Whoa. Yeah, it's cold. That's hardcore. Yeah. And you get accustomed to it. It to me is not. I mean, it sucks. Every time I do it, I'm like, don't do it. There's like the part of me that's like my inner bitch. Yeah. I'm like, oh, we don't have to do this. We don't have to do this. But luckily, the general is stronger than the inner bitch. The general is always telling, shut the fuck up and get in there. And I just get in there every day. But I do like 48, man. That inner bitch is always talking though. He never shuts up. No. Never shuts up. Don't ever think that it, like, even though I do it every day, anybody who's like, I don't know how you do it.

1:43:44I don't know how I do it either. But I fucking do it. I make sure I do it. I just, I'm the boss. Yeah. Do you do the sonas too? Oh, yeah. Do the red light bed. I have a red light bed. Yeah. I have a sona red light bed. I have a hyperbaric chamber. Wow. I have everything. I have a barricamber. So the person has that. It's incredible. Incredible. I got to get back in there. I feel like I have more holes in my head. It's phenomenal for just overall recovery for everything. And it's also been shown to length and telemirs. They did a study out of Israel. Yeah, they gave people a protocol over 90 days.

1:44:15You do 60 sessions of 90 minutes over 90 days. And it's shown to length and telemirs and decrease your biological age. OK. You just feel fucking great. That makes sense to me. You're flooding your body with oxygen. Most diseases, a lot of them come from a lack of oxygen. Your body not having enough oxygen is very bad for you. I used to have a chagong master. This is what blows my mind about medicine and about ancient stuff. This guy is from Shanghai. He didn't speak much English, right? A little bit. His wife would translate for him. And he'd come in and he could point at you, right? From this far away, and you'd feel it.

1:45:02But feel it as palpable as someone pushing you around. It's like, oh, yeah. I'm not kidding. What year was this? This was happening. Oh, shit. I met him when I was like 40. He only just passed away. Damn, too bad. I looked at meat. Oh, no. There are others like it. Oh, yeah. He's not the only one. He learned it from somebody. And I think he imparted some knowledge. But he would get you and he could point at you and stuff. It makes you wonder, how do they build the pyramids? You know, I mean, if he can use his mind and kind of get into quantum physics and move shit around with thought and with energy, there's actual energy coming out of his fingers.

1:45:48They could have built the pyramids like that. I don't know. Maybe somebody had that down somewhere. But well, I'd like to hear a better explanation. Me too. Well, it was really weird. He, one time, he was working on me and he was working on my liver. He said, you're liver's block. Because he looks at you. And if you look at him, he looks away. And his wife engages you while he checks you out. And then he gives you a little body map and he puts exes all over it and you go, yeah, that's right. I got a pain here and a thing there. You know, he knows where everything is. He knows exactly what's going on.

1:46:20Did you ask him what he's seeing or aura? Like what is he seeing? Everything. He sees everything. He was an alopathic doctor first. He went to medical school. He could write your prescription. He could do all that stuff. He was a doctor. And then he saw a Chagum master. This old guy and people were lining up getting cured and he thought, that's really interesting. And he learned that on top of being an alopathic doctor. So one day he's at me on my back and he's pushing and I can feel my back. And I'm at the wall. And there's a poster of a film on the wall, you know, my office. And I'm looking at it.

1:46:55And I can see him in the background and he's like, down like this, like, like Kung Fu pointing a rays of energy at me. And he hit me. He started yelling at my organ, at my liver. Like, come out. You know, whatever. And I went up the wall and there was like eight inches of air under my heels. And I was up the wall. And I was like, whoa, and I came back down and he freaked me out. And I looked at him and he just went, he said, don't tell you. He's just science like that. He's just science. Just science. Yeah. Just science. And I was so freaked out. And I went to a priest. I said, is this guy demonic or something?

1:47:33Because he's lifting me off the wall. And the priest was like, he was an old Jesuit, right? A traditional old guy. And he was, he was a cross between Jimmy Stewart and Omar Fud, you know. That's the way he sounded. And I said, is this anything like demonic about this guy? Like putting his, he says, whoa, whoa, whoa, dude, did he heal you? Like that. And I said, why? Yes, he did. And he said, that's all right then. And he says, I have no trouble with something like that because it was, it was within the realm of possibility that somebody had power like that. And then it's inexplicable, but that it works.

1:48:11And it did work. Yeah, he just passed away. He was pretty old. There was a place that, you know, I bought a comic club out here. And before the building that we bought was the Ritz Theater on Sixth Street. But before that, it was under contract to another building. And then this other building was owned by a cult. And this is a crazy story. The cult was awful. Horrible. There's a documentary on it. It's called Holy Hell. And this guy who is a gay porn star and a hypnotist. He was a yoga instructor. Got a bunch of people in West Hollywood. And then eventually moved them all out here to Austin. But what this guy was doing, one of the things that he would do is disciples is he would do a thing called the knowing.

1:48:55And they had to be chosen for it. They had to earn it. And when he would get them and bestow the knowing upon them, he would touch their head. And they would have this incredible experience where they said they contacted God. Now all these people denounced him eventually. They left the cult. They all said he was a con man and this and that. But they all talked about that experience. And they said it was the most profound experience of their life. That they really do feel like they came in contact with God. And it's like, what can a person, if a person truly believes, and this other person truly believes that they can do this to them?

1:49:34And they have this moment and something does happen. Like what is that all inside of us? Do people have ways of pulling that out of you that we've lost track of that we don't know? And even an evil person who's wanting to call and manipulating people and exploiting people still has this thing that he was able to do to them that even after they've admitted that this guy exploited them, they say that was the most profound moment of their life. That's interesting, isn't it? Yeah. Because I think there are party tricks that you can get. But is that that party trick if it really is a pathway to connect you at least temporarily with God that there is a thing inside of us?

1:50:21Well, that's why I went to the priest because I thought, right, because I'm off the floor. Right. So I thought I got to check this out because this is too weird. And he said, did he heal you? And I said, he did. And he said, that's all right then. Because the guy wasn't trying to get anything out of me. Right. In fact, he never charged me. The first time I went to see him, he charged me. And it was like, okay. And then he never charged me again. And he used to call me when I was sick. Really? I wouldn't call him. He knew when I was sick. He'd call me. He said, I need to come see you. I'm like, okay.

1:50:56So he had like some sort of a direct line with your energy. Something. Pretty amazing. And he could, oh, this is the other thing. He could teach you martial arts like quickly, without you having to know what to do. It was a weird thing. He did it firstly with my son, who he got him for a couple of weeks. And like, he said, I'm about to show you something. And I went out there and he blindfolded him. And he had these two swords. And he was doing all this crazy stuff. I'm like, what the? I said, how did he learn that so fast? He said it was in him. I'm like, whoa. And then he started to do a thing when he taught me how to harness this energy.

1:51:37And to actually begin what seemed to be almost like involuntary movement. And depending on the hand mode you took, it would create a style of kata or self -defense. I used to do like, I used to do a crude martial art, not crude, but like a hard martial art. What was it? Chokushenka. I know. Way back. Chokushenka. I think it's Korean. It's Japanese. It is. I can't remember. But it's like, I didn't stick with it. But he got this whole other approach of breathing and visualizations that would actually draw energy into your lower chakras. And then you'd release the energy. And it would create this kind of movement.

1:52:28And I showed it to a friend of mine who was a martial artist. And I said, tell me about the footwork I'm doing here and what I'm doing. And he looked at me and he says, that looks really good to me. I said, it was kind of like, what's that really soft kind of march? Tai Chi. It was like that. I was doing stuff like that. It was crazy. And it was really a great release. But it was about visualization and breath. And the release of that energy that you pent up from all around that you visualized, coming manifesting itself in you. There's got to be something to all that stuff. People have been practicing Tai Chi for a long time.

1:53:06They wouldn't be practicing the saved movements for all these years if it didn't do something. Yeah. Pretty interesting. Yeah. It keeps people young and healthy. They do it in chai. You see groups of people out in Asia, sort of out there in groups doing it all in unison. It's like, it's a good thing. Exercise. Yeah. What do you do now for exercise? Oh gosh. I'm terrible. I've been, I've come off, I'm falling apart. I got this, I got dead, dead guys parts in my shoulder. I've got, you know, cadaver parts in my, this shoulder fell apart. This shoulder fell apart. A hip, a foot with terrible. I couldn't walk for about a year or most.

1:53:43Really? And so, you know, you fall down. That's partially why I had to go and see Brekk at us, sort of, get the couch potato stuff off. But, you know, I lift weights and I do some, you know, walking and stuff like that, like really get your heart rate up and stuff like that. So, you know, I'm trying, hey, I'm, you know, I'm 69 years old, so it's like, it's getting to be like seven decades or, you know. Yeah. But I want to stay fit if I can. And I bang myself up a little too much of my early life, so I'm paying for it now. And like in your 60s, man, you're not there yet, but stuff starts like giving up on you.

1:54:27Yeah. It's like, no, I feel it in my 50s. Oh, yeah, how old are you? 57? 58 is when it starts, man. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, that's what I, that's what I, that's what I first noticed. It was like, oh, what's going on with this here, the shoulder, and I went down to Reardon, of course, who shot it up with stem cells and it was good for like two years, you know. You just got to keep going back. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't go back often enough. That's the thing. I think it's just your body's just not going to heal the way it did when you were younger, unless you consistently get therapy for that. Yeah, yeah. You're a good shape, though.

1:55:00Yeah. I mean, yeah, so I was in reasonable shape at 58. And I think I'm in reasonable shape now. But I'm just, you know, it's just trying to push the old man off. And it's various methods to do it, you know. Yeah, that's what it is. Keep the body as young as you possibly can. Yeah. Yeah, and demand a lot from it. That's what I do. Yeah. I just demand a lot and make sure I recover. I think a lot of it's about meditation, too, you know. You can actually get into a good headspace that kind of cools you out and stops the stress. Even no matter what's going on, I'm going to have to do it tonight when I find out whether I still have a home or not.

1:55:41Yeah. Well, if anything looks demonic, it's the fires in Los Angeles. Yeah. I remember one time we were a film at Fear Factor and we had a drive home. We had a cancel a shoot or ended early and drive home because the fires had hit. And this was like, we were off the five and driving home for 50 minutes on the highway. The right side of the highway was in flames. Yeah. Like Lord of the Rings, like Soron is coming over the top. It looked fucking insane. It's biblical. It looks insane. And you got to be careful, too, because you could die. Oh, 100%. If you can't breathe, I mean, come on. If you can't breathe or if the cars in front of you catch fire and the wind blows this way and all the cars catch fire and you can't get off the road because to the right of use on fire, to the left use on fire and the fire is coming up the highway.

1:56:28Oh, yeah. Yeah, people have died that way. And it can happen. Yeah. I got hung once by mistake. And it was, I was on a film set and I had my neck and a news and I was directing the film. So I was, I'm on a ladder. And I'm like, so I'll just be hanging here like this. And then the next thing I knew I was waking up, I was on the floor. And there were all these people standing over looking at me and I'm saying, what are you people doing? Get the work. You know, it was like, and they said, well, you hung yourself. I said, whoa, kidding me. It happens in an instant and you don't know it. It wasn't painful.

1:57:06Nothing. I was just gone. Well, you probably got choked out. Yeah, choked out by the, by the news. And then they grabbed me by the legs and got the rope off. Jesus. During Braveheart it was. Oh, really? Oh, wow. Oh, wow. It was funny. So I, I found out what it was like to sort of go into the next realm. But of course, we did, I was fortunate enough to work with, with, with, With Hori on Gracie. Thirty nine years ago. Yeah. You know, he'd just come from Brazil. Well a, I remember when you were doing Letha Weapon. It was the first time I'd ever seen Jiu Jitsu in a movie. A leg choke on Philip. Yeah.

1:57:41He taught, he taught me the leg show. He didn't know you grab your foot. Yeah. Yeah, like, okay. And it was, it was cool. But it was now my girlfriend does, and she's like purple belt so I've learned. Really? Yeah I've learned not to talk about it. She's legit. Yeah. Purple belt's, purple belt is basically a black belt. you just need a little bit more time. If you can get, I always tell all judges who's students, if you can get to Purple Belt, you are a black belt. You're gonna be a black belt. Oh, she will. You just gotta stay on that path. No, she is. She's obsessed with it. Yeah. And she's, you know, as I say, I don't talk back to her.

1:58:14I think the Purple Belt is the hardest belt to get to. It is. Because it's just like in the beginning, you're just getting crushed. That's a jujitsu, especially for women. It's so difficult for women because they don't have the physical strength that the men have. So you can kind of get away with a lot. If you're a big, strong guy, you can get away with a lot of shit. But then by the time you get to Purple Belt, like, man, you have to have real technique and you have to have a real understanding of what's going on. She got a good mind. And I think she's like a chess player. It is like that. Because I know from fighting with her.

1:58:46Yeah. She wins arguments when she's wrong. So. Sometimes you let them win though, right? Yeah, you have to. You just like, you gotta walk away. Oh, yeah. Sometimes it's like, you gotta go, okay. It's my second thought in my first act. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah. But she got the Purple Belt. That's amazing. Good for her. It's good for her. Yeah. Yeah, a woman black belt. That's an unbelievably exceptional woman taking it to that because they have to roll with men. And it's just, well, she does get this advantage. Big dudes and stuff. And she's like, you know, she, yeah. She's done some exceptional things I've heard.

1:59:24So it's like, yeah, it's pretty good. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't follow it up. You can still do it. No, I'm a more baseball bat gun kind of guy. You know, I'm in trouble. I just like, you know, that kind of stuff. Well, be careful with that in California. Yeah, wind up being in jail. Yeah, that's true. You wind up using it to protect yourself and the lock you up. Yes, it's, which is also evil. Mm -hmm. Yeah, that happens a bit. Yeah. Mm -hmm. Oh, well, it's, yeah, there's a perverse nature in our society right now with the law. You know, when you look at your life now, and you're on your third act as you're saying, like, what do you look forward to these days?

2:00:05Is it creating things? It's creation. Yeah, I think it is. It's about creation. And I figure, I'm not, I'm pretty average at most things. But I'm good at a couple of things, you know. I know how to tell a story on film. I know how to do that. I don't know, that's a weird place to be. But I think a lot can be achieved by art and image. And you can convey a lot without actually having to say it. You can do things to affect people emotionally or spiritually, even without being overt. I always like to reference just a shot that, and it's in a Ridley Scott movie, right? And you don't know why it works, or why it's effective on some level, but it's kind of a profound, effective shot.

2:01:08And it's that first shot in the Gladiator movie where he's running his hand over the wheat, right? With that music and stuff. Why does that work? I don't know. You can't explain it, but it works. Well Ridley Scott is a master. Yeah, that's a visionary human being. He sees things. He knows how to shoot. Yeah, yeah. And that is, that's really good. It's a valid pursuit, I think, in storytelling. If you can do that. Every time he goes out there, it's eye candy. It's a feast for the eyes, you know. Do you have different goals with different projects? Like obviously, flight risk is entertainment. It's fun, it's entertaining.

2:01:50Sure entertainment, yeah. And yes, different goals. And the other thing too is it's like, we're living in a different time now in the film world. I mean, everything's upside down, and you have to compete in a medium where you have less time, less money. Do it fast, do it now. And it's like, wow, can I do that? I always had the luxury of like, you know, a big budget and 3 ,000 people on horses and all this kind of stuff. Or, you know, and was able to take my time with stuff. But I had 22 days. And here you got, tell the story in 22 days. So I felt the challenge of being able to do that. And being able to make something that really got people like, they could watch and enjoy it, you know.

2:02:38And I'm glad you saw it. I'm glad you liked it. And that's all I want. I just want people to have a nice little ride, a fun ride, entertainment. But yes, you have different goals with things. I mean, the next thing I'm going to tackle is more profound for me. It's going to take more out of me. This is the resurrection story. Yeah. And I even have to change my entire life to do it. How so? You can't go into a project as profound in nature, as that, without somehow preparing yourself for it. It's like preparing for a fight. You have to be fit for the fight. And yes, so you have to spiritually prepare yourself for that.

2:03:24And that's going to take some sacrifice. And because, you know, I profess this and I profess that. I'm not a great example of Christianity. You know, I'm just, you know, I'm flawed. And I make a lot of mistakes. But I have to try and be better somehow in order to go in and make that film. So what does that mean? I think I know what it means, you know? Well, one of the things I thought was fascinating was reading and listening to Jim Cavizel talk about his experience playing Christ in your film. Yeah. It just truly changed that guy's the course of his whole life. Well, it was fascinating to watch him work, actually.

2:04:07And most of the time, I just like backed away because he was doing something that, and I've seen a lot of people portray Jesus in films, right? And I never buy it. You can't quite buy it. Something creeps in the color that's not, something's not right or discordant. And some of them are pretty good, but you never quite believe it all the way. What was the Bolinda phone movie? Oh, that was a Scorsese film. Right. What was that called? The last temptation. That's right. That's right. Which, interestingly enough, I was in a hotel in the Savoy and I had food poisoning. I was near dead from, I had a bad oyster in London.

2:04:52And I was dying in a hotel room. And I couldn't even leave. It was the worst. I think it was like Salmonella or something. And I saw this cord on the side of the bed and I pulled it and all of a sudden a door opened up and a butler like jeeps came in and he says, yes, I'm like, whoa. And I said, I'm really sick. I said, what do you think I should eat? My tie suggests some warm consume and a cup of tea. I said, okay. So this butler took care of me in this hotel. But while I was there, Scorsese calls the room and she says, come here, I want to talk it. So I go in and talk to Martin and he's in his room and all the windows, the screens are drawn.

2:05:32He's got 18 different TVs going on at the same time in this dark room and he's talking to me about the last temptation of Christ and he wants me to play Jesus. And I said, whoa, I'm not doing it.

2:05:48And I sort of got out of there and then I went back to my room and they changed my room. This is really weird. They had changed my room and moved my stuff and they told me they were going to do it, but I forgot. So I'm using a key to get into my room and it won't work. And the door opens up all of a sudden and it's Keith Richards and his underpants standing there staring through me like, like, and there's a girl in a mint coat walking around it. Mint coat and nothing else walking in the background. And Keith Richards standing there and his underpants with a spliff and I'm like, I tried to explain that I thought it was my room but it wasn't and it was ridiculous.

2:06:25I'm 26 years old and he just looks at me like, he shuts the door in my face. I said, well, that was my meeting with Keith Richards. He slammed the door in my face. It was like, fantastic. Anyway, but what were we talking about? He did something I think that nobody else did and I think he pulled it off because I totally believed it. I believed it too. And it was like, what did he do? He emptied himself out. Yeah. And he invited something else in and he left it. He just, he didn't try anything. He just emptied himself out and he meditated and he let Christ in. And that role seemed to have had a profound effect on him as a human being.

2:07:13Oh, absolutely. And kind of fucked him up in his career. A little bit. Because people associated him entirely with that film and then they associated him with Christianity and then they associated him with right -wing politics and yeah. And then, you know, he got sidetracked by a few guys. I mean, there's some people out there like they get in your ear and it's like casheous you know talking about. And they get you to just make a speech somewhere and it's like throwing an exaction. Yeah. And you're wonder, you know, should I even be saying this? And so he stepped on a bunch of landmines but yeah, it did have a profound effect on him.

2:07:57But I think he was already mostly there anyway. And I noticed that because when I was trying to cast it, I thought who could play this? And I saw the opening shot from Terry Malik's film, which is the thin red line.

2:08:12And it was just a big close up of a crevicell. And there was something otherworldly and childlike going on there in the close up. And I thought, who's that guy? He's amazing. Of course, he couldn't keep the blue eyes. He had to trade them out. So I changed the color of his eyes to brown and all that stuff. So it looked like he came from the region. Right.

2:08:35But amazing. What he already had a quality and ethereal kind of otherworldliness, space cadet quality. Yeah. That he's still kind of like that. He's still like, wow. Yeah, he's seen it. I wish I had met him or I haven't met him still, but I wish I'd seen him before and then after. And I see like, what did that role change him? Because it seemed to have strengthened his faith. Sure. It did. He got in real tight with it. And I think he had some experiences while he was doing it. He suffered a little. And then he had struck by lightning. Well, there's two times there was these lightning strikes happening on the set.

2:09:20And it was this guy with him. He was a young fella. One of the assistants on the film, his name was Jan. And old Jan was like, is it like six foot two Italian, Northern Italian guy? If he tripped in the street, women would slide under him. It was that kind of stuff. The guy was like a babe magnet. And I think he was taking full advantage of the gifts he had. But he got hit by lightning the first time, getting people. We were out on the hill and there was a lightning storm, like with the crosses and stuff. And this guy called Chippo. He was a grip. And he never spoke a word to me the whole time.

2:10:01He was just a quiet kind of guy. And I figured, oh, he doesn't know English. But he came up to me. And in perfect English, he said, you know, I think you should get all the people off the hill. We could be struck by lightning. And I thought, oh, that's a good idea. Let's get off the hill. So we're moving off the hill. Everybody's getting off. And this kid gets hit through the umbrella. This young guy. He gets a zap by lightning, right? But he's 22. And he goes to the disco all night and dad. He's doing the whole, you know, 22 experience. And he comes back and he's like, yeah, that's great. And then he was with Jim the second time it happened.

2:10:39But this time I found him in a fiat bambino with his knees up around his ears, like waiting for the third strike. He was like, this just doesn't happen twice in the third strike. And he says, I have to change my life. You know what I mean? So it was pretty fun. Filming that movie must have had a profound effect on a lot of people, right? It did. Because you were doing something that wasn't just a film. It was, you know, verite kind of. Yeah. And it was strengthening people's faith that film was a, I mean, profound success. And a lot of people dismissed the idea of it even. Yes. You know, especially in Hollywood.

2:11:18I mean, you had a self -fund all that, right? Yes, it was self -funded. And it was a very strange experience. That one, because I put the money and I thought, well, maybe I'll break even. And it was, then I got these messages back. All the majors wouldn't distribute it. Sorry, I think. Nobody will distribute it. Okay, I guess I've lost, you know, the money. But it was worth the experience. And so one guy was left in the room at the end. When the dust settled, it was some guy. He said, I'll distribute. And he had a little company called New Market. They distributed like one or two films before.

2:11:56And I think it was a Charlie Sturron movie called The Monster about that horrible serial film. Oh, yeah. And he said, I'll do it. And, you know, it was just really basic. I went and I met the exhibitors. And, you know, and this guy was like the distributor. This little company was just him and a toothless dog and a fax and an assistant. And it was like, okay, what's all the smoking mirrors about this with between the distribution, exhibition. I met, I made handshake deals with all the exhibitors. Yeah, we'll show this. I said, okay. And then we put it out there. And it went out. Nobody expected it to do much, but it did phenomenally well.

2:12:38And there was this kind of thing in town, in the town. They said, did anyone just see that? And we'll just see what that guy did. Kind of like I do that again. And we don't want anyone doing that. You know, because it sort of walked around the entire system. Yeah. And scored. Right. So there was two things. There was resistance to the Christianity aspect of it and the emotion of Christianity. And then there was resistance to the fact that you went outside the system. It was outside. Well, I had no alternative. Because no major would back it. Because the Christianity aspect of it. I guess, yeah.

2:13:17Well, Rubber Murdock said, you know, he wanted to. And then he said, yeah. And then somebody advised him and said he'd be out of business in five years. Rubber Murdock. Wow. In five years if he distributed it. Yeah. And I was like, wow, if he's scared, I'm like, I'm going to crash and burn here. But it actually did all right. It did phenomenal. Yeah. And then again, I tried to, no, I went with a studio on a Park Alipto. But, man, it didn't work out so well. It didn't? No. Well, it was interesting. The film was a film with, it had no stars. It was in another language. And it came out on a weekend with another film that had Leo in it.

2:14:03And another film that had Cameron Diaz in it. And so those three films came out on the same weekend. And the one with no stars and without the language won the weekend, monetarily. It won the box office by a narrow margin on the other two. And the second week out, Disney pulled the screens. Really? Yeah. So I thought, no, that's funny. Well, Screens are gone. I guess there's another agenda, because that was another self -funded one. Did they pull the screens because they had movies that they had already made deals with? I think so. But it's just politics. And I think perhaps the distribution deal on that wasn't as good as something else.

2:14:53So it's all business. It's a phenomenal movie, though. It's a great film. And it did better afterwards. In DVD and streaming and all that. Yeah, it did well. Yeah. I watched it again like two years ago. Yeah. I hadn't seen it in a while, and I watched it again, and I had forgot a bunch of aspects. I was like, God, damn, it's a good movie. It's just primal. Yes. And I think I love primitive stuff, you know? And primal emotions. I mean, basically, it's a guy just trying to get back home to save his wife and kid. And he's got a lot of obstacles in the way, like Jaguars and bad guys chasing him and trying to skin him and trying to rip his heart out.

2:15:32It's pretty cool. Yeah, it's pretty cool. And I sat in the room with my assistant. He said, what do you want to do next? Chase movie, I said, he said, well, so we found out where the Mayan canoes and Columbus and all that. And then we just started making the story up in the room. And we wrote it. Wow. And yeah. Some assistant, man. He actually wrote. He actually tapped it out. Hmm. Crazy. So when you're making this resurrection movie now, you also have this obligation. There's this. You're doing a very similar thing that you were doing with the Passion of the Christ, where this is this is a profound story.

2:16:11Yes. When you put something like that together, how do you choose who's going to be the next Jesus? You use him again. Kavizel. Yeah, I know it's 20 years later. It's 20 years later, but it's. It's the right guy. Yeah, but it's. It's supposed to be three days later, but he got 20 years older. And I think I have to use a few techniques that they've started to get really good with the CGI. Yeah. All they can do amazing things now. You can actually get some of the same people. By the time you film it, it'll be even better. Yeah. When are you going to start filming? I'm hoping next year, sometime.

2:16:52There's a lot required because it is, I'll just tell you this, it's an acid trip. When we wrote it, it is like, I've never read anything like it. And my brother and I and Randall all sort of congregated on this. So there's some good heads put together, but there's some crazy stuff. And I think in order to really tell the story properly, you have to start with the fall of the angels, right? Yeah. Which is you're in another place. You're in another realm. You need to go to hell. You need to go to shill. So you're going to have hell, you're going to have Satan, all that? Whoa. Sure you're going to have, yeah.

2:17:40Right. You got to have his origin. How do you represent, how do you depict that? This is a good question. And I think I have ideas about how to do that. And ideas about how to evoke things and emotions in people from the way you depict it and the way you shoot it. So I've been thinking about it for a long time. So it's not going to be easy and it's going to require a lot of planning.

2:18:15And I'm not wholly sure I can pull it off to tell you the truth. It's really super ambitious, but I'll take a crack at it. Because that's what you got to do, right? Walk up to the plate, right? So I think I can get it, but it's not about me, you know? It's about something else. So if anybody can do it, you can do it. Well, I hope so. It's trying to find the way in that's not like cheesy or obvious, but that actually, it's almost like a magic trick in a sense. It's diversion. It's, I'll fiscate this, show that. Look over here. You know, I don't know. It's, do you have a title? Yeah, it's just like the resurrection of the Christ.

2:19:08Yeah, it's like, so that's a title. And yeah, it's a, it's very ambitious. That's all I'll say. It just took a long time to write. It's really ambitious and it goes from like the fall of the angels to death at a last apostle. Do you have a start date? I don't have a start date. I just have to begin pre -production and see what happens. And it's, it's just going to roll in its own time. It's taken its own time. I thought it was late. I think I've taken too long. It's taken too long, but it's probably just right. Yeah, it's when it's supposed to be. Yeah. Well, if you believe that, that's true. Yeah.

2:19:50Yeah. I don't know. I hope you're right. I think I'm right. My instincts are that I'm right. Yeah, yeah. And if I was going to trust anybody with that story, it would be you. Yeah. I don't know. It's a massive thing. And theologically, it's something that you have to really look at and make correlations that ring true because it's not all written. Do you consult with someone like a biblical scholar? Oh, yeah. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Yeah. And of course, there's your own thing that comes into it from having read the book a few times. You read the book a few times. And it's amazing how your memory, how there's these recessive files somewhere in the background, how you can correlate this piece to that piece over there.

2:20:52And that's important because juxtaposition is everything with this story.

2:20:59And what it means in a bigger picture. Yeah. So it's hard to explain, but it's quite involved. Yeah, well, I can only imagine. Yeah. And I don't know that you can do it in a foreign language because the concepts are too difficult now. So that you may have to resort to the vernacular so that that at least is clear. Is that up for debate right now with you? Yeah. It is. I'm thinking like, yeah. But look, have you seen these apps now where they have this AI stuff where the guys talk in German and then he switches to French and Spanish and then Chinese? Yeah. Have you seen that? Yeah. And his mouth moves and it's the same voice.

2:21:41I mean, it's crazy what they do. So, so you're going to use that kind of a tool, do you think? You could. Will you begin it in Aramaic or in Hebrew? Maybe. Yeah, Aramaic is really the kick, isn't it? But, you know, I think I've written it in English, but I wrote the last one in English too and translated it. But and then the people I had to learn to speak it because there was, I think there's only about 400 people that actually speak Aramaic still. Wow. And apparently they understood it. So I was happy about that. Wow. So that was good. Yeah. 400 ,000 people, sorry. Oh. In the world. That makes more sense.

2:22:21Yeah. Sorry. 400 people. I've like preserved those 400 people. Yeah. Not many people speaking Latin still, but that's quite well known. Well, I can't wait to see it, man. And I just want to say I appreciate you very much. All the stuff that you've done, you've made some really awesome pieces in your life. You really have. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I'm blown away by where you got to with this, which is like, didn't you start off just smoking a spliff on a couch with a guy? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. It's pretty bizarre. Yeah. I'm not exactly sure how it happened. No.

2:23:05It's good. I just kind of kept doing it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'm a fan. Thank you. I watch it all the time. Thank you. There was no plan to do it. I'll tell you that. No. There still kind of isn't. I still kind of do it the same way. Okay. Every day you wake up. Yeah. I just look at my phone. I go online and say, who do I want to talk to? Yeah. This guy might be interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's really it. Who's next? Do you get some pretty interesting? Yeah. Yeah. I was amazed at that. I can't remember his name. Terrence, what he's all into? Terrence Howard? Yeah. The actor. Yeah. Yeah. He had a bunch of stuff going on.

2:23:47I was like, whoa. Yeah. Oh, he's out there. Yeah. Yeah. He's out there. But I mean, you have to be. To be one of those guys. You do. Well, listen, brother, thank you very much for everything. Appreciate you coming in here. Yeah. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Your new movie's great and all your stuff's great. I'm a big fan. So take it. It's on sale. Yeah. When does it come out? Oh, God. On the 25th. Okay. So soon. Yeah. It's fun. It is fun. Yeah. I enjoyed it. Yeah. All right. Thanks very much. Thanks, Joe. Bye, everybody.