#2263 - Gad Saad

1:00:05I'm like 90 plus percent only meat 90 plus percent every now and then I'll eat a cookie Like I'm not ridiculous like I'll have tacos if it you know I love tacos good solid Mexican taco But it's like I know the reality of what food is dessert is just fun it's just mouth fun it's just mouth pleasure So it's like oh it's so good. It's tiramisu delicious. I love it But that's just because I enjoy life. I like I like going to a restaurant and a great chef cooks you a great meal I don't think oh my god there's gluten in it. I'm not doing that for nutrition. I'm doing that for enjoyment This is for passion and love and the glass of wine and you know good conversation with friends and you know eating delicious food You're just enjoying you're taking part in a pleasurable experience that's essentially art that was created by a chef Right So that's different to me, but when it comes to food like what are what are you used to to fuel my body It's mostly meat mostly wild game meat and and ribeye steaks.

1:01:06Yeah, that's what I had a ribeye yesterday I need fat. I need a lot of protein and then I'm good and if I just eat that my brain operates better My body feels better less inflammation the brain fogs the craziest one when I went back to the carnivore diet I took a lot of time off and then I went back to it I was telling Jamie I was like dude I feel like I have like a whole another gear like intellectually like I amazing I'm not I mean I don't search for thoughts as much when I'm eating only like it's palpable you feel that Yeah, but for me it's it's because I have so many conversations with people.

1:01:39I know when I'm off I know when I'm like oh I'm slow like if I just flew in from fucking Italy or something like that I'm tired. Yeah, I'm jet lagged. It's a little harder to get the gears turning You know, I don't feel like I'm at my best and I always Notice the difference when I'm eating well always right what are your thoughts on And I know very little about this so I'm really asking because I I don't know anything about it All that ozambic stuff are you are you for it? Are you against it? What I think if you're morbidly obese It's probably a good idea to do something that helps you get going because even if the side effects are bad It's better than you're gonna throw your diet.

1:02:16Yeah, if you're 500 pounds you're fucking dying You have all the comorbidities you probably have diabetes you probably have all sorts of shit wrong with you You can't be that big and if the if you just don't know what to do And you don't know what to turn and your habits are so deeply ingrained in your psyche that you can't pass up Ring dings and you can't stop eating sugary cereal or whatever the fuck it is. That's your thing ozambic is probably a good way to get going You know, I wish people would just get going with discipline And they would just get going with food choices. I would I would like that.

1:02:48Yeah, but goddamn that's hard Especially if you're so far down the road because it takes a long time You know when someone you know says like how do you stay in shape? I'm like because I stay in shape Yeah, that's the thing right? I'm 57 years old, but I worked out like this when I was 17 Yeah, so like I don't do anything different. I keep this thing going I keep the party rolling and I never let it get fat because I'm I've gotten fat before but never Out of shape. I just got in fat because I ate too much food Right. I've never gotten to the point where I wasn't fit. I wasn't exercising I don't think you should ever let yourself get there because it's too fucking hard to get back Now if you've gone 39 years of your life doing nothing and just eating potato chips and drinking Mountain Dew and now you're 500 pounds You don't know what to do You're looking at a long journey.

1:03:34You're looking at a long journey to getting healthy again Yeah, it's a long road and it's hard to do a long journey because you're not gonna see it every day You're not gonna see any results. You're gonna look in the mirror You're still see you're all this extra meat and fat. You're gonna be disgusted with yourself You want to look like the guys of the gym. It's gonna take forever. Well, I wonder I mean, I guess we can calculate that but for every amount of weight that you put on or lose What's the ratio of the speed meaning it only takes me Three weeks to put on 10 pounds if I eat badly. That's suppose that that number were three weeks What's the number the temporal number the time number of how long it would take me to lose 10 pounds It's probably three four five times that so that there's well depends on what you're doing Okay, so it depends on how you're losing the weight and it depends on are you doing are you do you have multiple things going on simultaneously Have you started exercising?

1:04:32Have you stopped drinking sugary sodas right have you changed your diet completely? Are you getting enough sleep right all those things factor in getting enough sleep is a giant factor one of the Times that people make the worst food choices when they're tired. Yes, I know that for a fact If I come home from the comedy club, and it's like one o 'clock in the morning, and I'm hungry I fucking eat everything that's there. I eat everything dolly cookies. I'll eat whatever the fuck I want because I'm like I want to eat what I want to eat right now. I'm good most of the time Tonight we're having spaghetti, you know, I'll cook a pot of spaghetti, but The tired is one, but it's like What are you what are you doing to mitigate this and have you change your mindset and if you have it If you're kind of dabbling and losing the weight how long is it going to take it might take a long -ass time You might not ever lose it you can't you have to like get into calorie deficit.

1:05:21Yeah calorie deficit is hard So here's the thing though You can't starve yourself because some people do it the wrong way They go to extreme and they fucking starve themselves and which is fucking dangerous. It's dangerous It's dangerous for your heart. It's dangerous for your mind. It's dangerous for your body. Your body starts to eat itself You know, there's a process. What's it called? Autosis? What's it called? I forget what the process is called Where your body starts eating its own tissue to stay alive? Yeah, and that's what people are doing when they're on ozemic Unfortunately, and this this is the thing where people that are just a little overweight that get on it disturb the shit out of me Like you lazy fuck just go to the goddamn gym.

1:06:03Yeah, you lazy fuck your 10 pounds overweight and you're gonna get on ozemic That's so crazy Autofodgy that's what I thought I thought I thought you were talking about. Yeah, wait go go back to that again Body breaks down its own tissue survived. It's called a tongue. I never heard that word before Mara moose Mara Maras Maras moose Marasbest or muscle atrophy can happen when your body is deprived of nutrients or oxygen or when cells are damaged So here this so remember earlier I was saying how you could incorporate evolutionary thinking into all kinds of areas So there's these great studies that we're done looking at how the human mind can be tricked Because of its desire for variety seeking and then I of course I offer an evolutionary explanation for it But let me tell you the two studies that I have in mind I think because when you mentioned spaghetti it triggered that in my head So in one set of studies they took I think it was M &Ms And you know M &Ms can you could make you could create a bowl with only one color M &Ms Or you can create a bowl with many colored M &Ms That colorant Objectively speaking doesn't alter the taste.

1:07:10It doesn't alter the smell. So it is Only perceptually it affects it in that your eyes see a different color But it doesn't alter the gustatory experience and it turns out that when you offer people The multi -colored Bowl they eat more they eat more a wonder if People that are colorblind make better food choices You just there's your there's your research project It's kind of interesting, right? That's kind of cool But some things that are brightly colored are really good for you. You know like peppers. Yeah, yeah Bell peppers, you know, it's pretty bright red and they're pretty. Yeah, you know apples sure oranges although There are some cases where I want to talk about another variety of things study in a second But there are some cases where colors and nature are called this was actually my first book in 2007 I talked about aposomatic coloring.

1:08:00Do you know what that means? Sure. That's to warn you from exactly So then you and then I use it to explain the the hair coloring of all the wokesters. I say that that's a form of aposomatic hair color So so check this out. So the the Amazonian frog that lives in a very dangerous neighborhood You'd think that it would evolve camouflage and yet you could see it from a satellite It's so brightly yellow or red because it's saying hey, it isn't if you could see me You want to sort of stay wide of me. Yeah, I'm not even trying to hire exactly how dangerous I am Here's the beauty of nature another species Will co -opt that coloring scheme and it will Evolve it, but it's completely harmless, but people but the predator doesn't know which is which do you get it?

1:08:49Yes, right, so I I use that mechanism when I'm talking about deceptive signaling and I use it in the context of Deceptive branding where people can now street in New York City is all about you going and buying a Prada bag That should be $5 ,000, but hopefully if they faked it well, I can buy it for $50 And so so that's how I take all of these biological examples and try to apply them in economic or consumer decision making But let me go back to variety seeking so you mentioned earlier spaghetti So they did another study where they took the exact same pasta and they either gave it to you in a plate of one shape pasta Or in a plate of Multi -shaped, but it's the same pasta So it doesn't change anything, but I can give it to you whatever it's called fusella And I guess you can guess what they ate more when it's the multi -formed pasta Even though it's not cool You know, it's interesting to you just brought up brands Like brands are interesting It's really fascinating how brands have status attached to them and people are so attached to acquiring These brands that they'll have fake ones of course and the fake bag thing to me is the nuttiest one because It's just a bag.

1:10:10It's not a fake Ferrari Like if you if you buy a fake Ferrari, you're going to notice the moment you start drawing. Oh, this thing's a piece of shit It's not going to handle well. It's going to sound terrible won't be fast A real for it's like the reason what you're buying you're paying for the engineering of this magnificent piece of technology Well most most people are buying to show off so they're doing that too But rich people aren't stupid all right the reason why Ferraris is so expensive and they sell so many of us because you buy them You go holy shit. It's worth it The reason why it developed this brand status is because they win races right that's why all the Lewis Hamilton drives for Ferrari That's why they true.

1:10:49That's why they sell Ferraris because Ferraris are the shit You know, but also I wouldn't you know by the way wouldn't recommend a long trip in one Yeah, do you know that the upper uppers usually and you've met many of them Don't drive super ostentatious cars. Is it downplay it? They get like a regular Porsche 911 not even the turbo not even that maybe and But you know you know why you know, do you know why from an evolutionary side? They're hiding a little bit. It's a camel. They're like the frog that pretends to look like the leaf perhaps But it's because when I'm nouveau rich. I just entered that thing I want to demonstrate to everybody that I'm the real deal right and for many other people who are in my circle They may not be able to afford the ostentatious $350 ,000 Ferrari, but when I am an upper upper in the billionaire class Then me driving a $350 ,000 car is not a costly signal in a biological sense of my worth because every single member of my billionaire friend's group Could match that signal.

1:11:58Right Therefore the way I can then compete with my billionaire friends is if I can spend my money in a lavish wasteful way such that I buy An art piece that a monkey could have come up with and I pay a hundred and eighty million dollars of it Right, right, that makes me big dog because you don't have enough money Joe to be able to buy what I'm monkey And I paid a hundred eighty million dollars Both of us can buy the Maserati And so that's where I use the principle of costly signaling from biology to explain ostentatious behaviors and consumer behavior god as the dumbest flex, isn't it? Especially the modern art flex I think that's not actually I used to go to lacma the LA modern art museum And I would get angry like angry like I just have done the same thing just like like Just furious because you're feeling that they're cheating you from the experience of seeing real art This is not art.

1:13:00There's that one of them is literally a plexiglass box that's sitting on the ground I'm like you dumb motherfuckers you dumb motherfuckers The meanwhile if you go on Instagram you find amazing art. There's so many artists out there like legitimate incredible artists Like what you're doing is bullshit like one of them was a video of people playing catch That was their art like fuck you that's postmodernism. Yeah, right? There are no objective aesthetic standards. Yeah, so anything goes so in the parasitic mind I have a section where I talk about so like you it so you mentioned what where was it?

1:13:33Yeah, okay, so I had gone to visit I think it was in 1996 a couple years after my PhD one of my fellow PhDs from my school had gotten a job as a professor in Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh So I went to visit him and so he was busy teaching or something So I said oh you know I'll go to the Carnegie Museum and hang out and see stuff So Exactly like the experience you had there was an empty canvas So I went looked for someone who was working there. I said can I see the curator please Well, how can we help you sir? I said well, I'd like to discuss the this this art piece So then this other woman comes to me says how can I help you sir super, you know, I said well, you know, what is this bullshit?

1:14:16So she goes you say bullshit? Well, maybe not bullshit, but like what what is this can you express to me I paid an entrance fee to see this right and what do you think she said? I don't know Well, is look it's it triggered a Reaction in you isn't that what art art is all about my okay I went to see Yoko Ono's exhibit once of course she had an exhibit at In Boston when I was living in Boston and one of the pieces was a block of wood With a box of nails and a hammer and she encouraged people to take a nail and knock it into the piece of wood She encouraged people to participate Yeah, that's right.

1:14:54They're creating the art with her. It's collaborative process. This was the art was nails on a piece of wood Do you think that when she does that She believes it or she knows in the deep recesses of her mind that she's a Charlotte thing. I would have to talk to her I don't know so forget about her just in general when people what the way she separated John Lenin from the Beatles The way you know like everybody like if if you're in a band and one of the band members Has a girlfriend the girlfriend now gets involved in the band and starts talking about like, you know You need to treat him better That's Yoko Ono everybody calls her Yoko Ono like that's like a standard thing The people do because they think that Yoko Ono was a wedge that drove drove So a person who can do that with an intelligent guy like John Lenin Like John Lenin was very smart right very smart guy So a person who could like serve as and he wanted to spend all of his time with her That's probably a master persuader That's probably someone who's like really good at playing you really good at pulling her strings How about playing herself because remember the best way to tell a lie is the first believe it yourself Did you ever see when um, she appeared with John Lenin and they played on television with Chuck Barry?

1:16:11No, and she starts singing into the microphone and Chuck Barry freaks out because she sucks She's screaming she just starts screaming into the microphone while they're playing So they're playing Johnny be good. Oh my god. You never saw it. No the best version of it is Bill Burr because Bill Burr talks over it They like explains what's happening, you know, and is Inembitable Bill Burr way he's just getting angry watching Yoko Ono Just scream like a banshee and you see the look on on Yeah on their faces when they're looking at you know, it's just it's one of those things If you see you can't believe it's real you know that my friend of mine recently taught me he was actually a former student of mine Who's a good friend now he told me that that that famous sit in that they had happened to Montreal.

1:16:58Did you know that I did not know? Yeah, I did not know That it was like 1969 at the I think Queen Elizabeth. Maybe Jamie will pull it off a lot of crazy things Having a Montreal sugary Leonard versus a Roberto Durant that is true. That's right. How do I guess I would expect you to know that? Yeah, yeah, that was like 81 80s that somewhere in the 80s right because he won a gold medal in the 76 Olympics and by then it was a world champion Yeah, somewhere in the 80s. So yeah, yeah, so do you have you've met all these guys? I Never really met sugary. I saw him at a UFC. I did meet Roberto Durant though.

1:17:34Okay. It was amazing What did you think I mean, that's what I love about our conversation just goes anywhere What did you think about the Mike Tyson thing that just that would the jack Paul and so on? Jake Paul I'm happy they made money. I'll leave it at that That's what I think yeah, yeah, okay. I think it looked like sparring to me. Yeah, look like sparring It didn't look like anybody was trying to hurt anybody really. Okay. Yeah, which is good And you know, whatever You draw your own conclusions. I have no facts. You've met you met Tyson. I paid for it. Yes. I love Tyson Yeah, I've met Jake Paul too.

1:18:10He's a cool guy. I'm happy. They made money I've I paid for it. I don't care Right. Yeah, I was hoping it was gonna be real fight, but I was like okay. I see what's going on Like if you and I sparred we could put on the gloves and we could go back into the gym and we could spar and it would look almost like we're really fighting No, because you punched me once I wouldn't I would do it like at your speed. Oh, I would do it at your speed I just bring myself to your speed and just move around with you That's that's kind of what I would actually be interested in doing that. Okay, we could do it. It's fun, but I'm gonna talk so bad.

1:18:45No, I won't talk The thing about doing that with someone who's gonna be nice to you is that you can actually learn how to do it Because you don't worry about getting hit So like the best sparring that I ever got ever was when I learned to spar with people who had the same intentions as me Just getting better and not we're not trying to kill each other right So my early days of sparring when I was a young man I trained at a very hard gym and we in kickboxing we tried to kill each other And so there was wars in the gym essentially every day You're fighting whenever you sparred you were essentially fighting you weren't pulling punches You were hitting each other's hardest you could it's a really dumb way to do it But that's how you make a tough guy right like does the idea back then Now I think people were much more concerned with CTE brain damage the longevity of a fighter's career That they would have people fight smart and so the thing is like training partners Especially in jiu -jitsu you learn to really value your training partners Because your training partners help you get better and you have to trust them Like if somebody gets me any heel hook I have to trust them that they're not just gonna rip my knee apart and they're gonna let me tap They got me give me a second let me tap Why no I can't get out let me tap don't rip it apart and then let go as soon as the person taps This is like a If you don't do that in jiu -jitsu You want to have people to train with you and you get kicked out of schools and people have been kicked out of schools Because they don't let go of taps.

1:20:05They don't they don't let go of submissions So like you develop this Understanding that you both could get hurt really easily. I trust you I know you're gonna go hard and I'm gonna go hard But I know that we we're gonna be safe with each other We're not gonna do anything to each other that we know it's gonna hurt each other right So this is what you do in kickboxing too, but you have to trust that the person who's gonna do this They're not gonna hit you hard like a body's gonna hit me in the body He's gonna hit me in the body like this where we're both okay We know he could have really hurt me, but he just touched me So he's so he's getting his timing He's getting his movement and we're both moving fast But we're both really good so we have the ability to control So instead of blasting through someone and punching him right you punch him like that You literally punch him like that or you just you're with his touching yet a hundred percent You're you're not even going 50 percent right you're just touching you you know you're going fast You move and occasionally Unfortunately sometimes you hit someone harder than you mean to because they move into something or You both hit each other at the same time It's occasionally, but you mitigate a whole lot of impact and and then you also develop your timing better Because you're not worried about getting hit So the best way to learn boxing is first of all before you do any kind of sparring is learn technique Technique is everything it's everything mechanics are everything learning getting it ingrained In your your your body's system where you know that if you're going to throw a punch You're going to lean your body into it.

1:21:31You're going to keep your hand up when you throw a right hand You're going to do this when you throw the left hook you're going to cover up with your right hand You're you could learn these things so they're ingrained in your movement patterns And then you do them on pads and the the pad holder will like throw things at you So that you cover up right and you learn distance You learn how to pull away encounter and you learn all these things and then slowly start incorporating Moving targets you start incorporating a person and the best way to do that is not get two people try to kill each other Because that's what we used to do you don't learn anything The best way to do it is have someone gently move around with you And then like hands up hands up and you move around and like you go through a whole round Where you're not even allowed to punch just do defense and I suspect I just want you to I just want you covering I just want you moving good.

1:22:15I want head movement I want you to be an elusive target and when punches come at you I want you to be able to move away Because I was going to say that when when I was a soccer player the the type of trainings we do because you have to do a lot of sprints Is very different than the type of fitness that I do now Which is usually I just get on the treadmill and I do a bit of interval training But I just kind of either run or fast walk uphill without these kinds of anaerobic right and so I'm kind of looking at although I just turned 60 by the way In October congratulations. Thank you So I'm looking to do something that raises my heart level in a way that is akin to what I Supposed would happen if you got into a ring how your heart rate With kind of go up in ways that I'm probably not testing my heart currently because I just get on the treadmill And I just jog yeah, I mean there's a whole bunch of workouts So you could just do online you could find online on YouTube There's hundreds of different people that put out free workouts And you know, you could do them with two 10 pound dumbbells And you know, they'll take you through all this different stuff like pistol squats do this do that You know overhead press do this do that and then they'll work you through the reps and all you have to do is follow along Have you ever seen the training regimen of Alvin Camera?

1:23:30No, that Alvin Camera is I mean recently. He's kind of had a couple of off years, but he he's sort of the feature back running back of the New Orleans Saints He's an all -purpose bag meaning that he both runs But he also catches the ball a lot, right? So he's really he does he's a generalist. He's a polymath And I've always loved the way he moves. He moves very very elegant like almost like a butt So he's both power, but also if you remember how Barry Sanders was in the late 90s Do you remember who that was? He was at Detroit Lions running back and so I thought this guy runs Unique in a unique way that's different from all the other players and I I thought oh, I know who I was think I had Dean Kane on my show.

1:24:15Do you know Dean? Superman Superman who used to be a football player, right? And so we were discussing our favorite football players and I was telling him oh this is about three four years ago I said oh my favorite player is Alvin Camera So then he tells me go on YouTube and watch the types of trainings he does to Develop those movements and as a big fitness guy Just go watch it is a lot of plyometrics a lot of plyometrics a lot of stuff where you know They they throw a ball and he and he standing on a bounce on a balancing ball What's that called the platform? And he's trying to catch balls that he that they're throwing I mean I would have a hard time Just staying on that damn thing There you go.

1:24:57Oh, yeah That's crazy What that's exactly his trade it you have to see what this guy makes him do. It's unbelievable. He's like a ballerina Well, that makes sense that he would be so agile and mobile because He can't just like do squats You know if you want to be an amazing athlete you have to do a bunch of different things. Oh, this is cool Oh, a lot of explosions left. Oh, he's on but look at this wow That's crazy hopping back and forth on ball to ball with balance on one is that unbelievable. Yeah, it is Oh, I'm so glad you brought. Thank you, Jamie. It does make sense though that you you know You need to develop all this stuff if you want to look at that.

1:25:37He's got that's it look at his stuff Crazy he's got a stick with the right ball standing on one foot. I bet he has insane balance Look at those legs that balance is insane that thing is so hard to stand on anyway. Yeah Especially with one leg. I'm so I'm it's exciting that I shared something with you who's like this huge fitness expert that you didn't know cool Yeah, I've seen people do similar types of workouts, but that's very impressive That that kind of I mean it just makes sense that if you want to separate yourself from everybody else What do you need to do to separate yourself like elite balance elite?

1:26:10There's this guy Armand Sarukin who was supposed to be fighting Islam Makachev for the world lightweight UFC title, but he heard his back Literally like the day before the the weigh -ins It's probably because of the severe weight cut they cut he cuts a lot of ways very muscular But one of the things that this guy does that's really extraordinary. They put out his workout He does this incredible mobility exercises like he's insanely flexible He's like jacked like super muscular, but like ridiculously mobile and pliable And he's doing see if you can find his workout routine He does all these Crazy exercises where they're like twisting him in weird positions and It's very unusual for a guy that's that strong that to be that agile and mobile are you do you have a lot of flexibility?

1:27:01Yeah, but that's just because I started when I was a really young kid I started in martial arts and I was stretching from the time I was Demoliting I genuinely believe that my muscles are made of glass No, that's all horseshit see if you can find this is yeah this he does a lot of this stuff like look at these twisting motions He does a lot of like weird mobility stuff like hip mobility like look at all this wow It's all very so he's pulling on a cable machine and like look how flexible he is wow it's nuts And this is like a core part of his training that is very different than a lot of other people's training Like oh my goodness his ability to stand on his head like that and move his whole body around in a circle What the hell incredibly agile So this is not something that every person no, that's this is super unusual I mean there's some wrestlers that do this kind of stuff is pretty common.

1:27:55I do these But he's like got it. It's a core part of his training is his physicality his physicality is very This is him with humzach mayev who's one of the top middleweight contenders one of the absolute best fighters in the world And he know he's giving him a run for it. Wow. They're really good I mean watching him roll like humzach rolls through everybody and he's having a hard time controlling this guy And this guy fights two weight classes below him. That's how good is the blue guys the blue guy the blue guys much smaller So humzach is He's 185 pound guy and at one point he fought at 170 but he was cutting a shit load of weight But even at 185 he's next in line for the title and this kid just kids fighting at 155 So he's quite a bit smaller and still giving him you know He's not allowing humzach to run him over which is very impressive So what what's the trajectory of MMA next is it all turn it into an Olympic sport?

1:28:50What I hope so I hope the MMA becomes an Olympic sport. It should is that on the on the agenda. I don't I mean I know they've pushed for it. Okay, it should be you know I know there's combat sports obviously in the Olympics boxing and judo particular in taekwondo now as well And you've got the australian break dancer too But that one was amazing. Do you think that was a troller was real? I think that was hubris I think that was a person who didn't think they were gonna get scrutinized yeah who Use their position of influence to acquire a PhD in this stuff she has Yeah, but also there's like legit break dancers in australia Yeah, well google australian break dancers.

1:29:30There's people that are legit. I love break dancing I love watching it. Yeah, it's so impressive like the locking and all that stuff No, the physical moves all the when they do a flip and land on one leg and then flip back the other way There's a couple guys richie and jiu Martina's That are black belts under 10th plan of jiu jitsu and they started out their career as break dancing And they were so hard to hold on to and they were so mobile and so agile that Eddie started incorporating like break dancing into his training Like learning break dance techniques Because it tastes basically kind of gymnastics, right?

1:30:04You know, and a lot of these guys They can stand on one arm and spin around in a circle with their feet in like a lotus position Like it's brazilian self -defense ordnance really self -couple era. Yeah, a couple era But couple era was like a dance that the slaves had created that they were disguising a martial art in a dance Allegedly, I'm not okay. I'm not an expert in copper. But a lot of the couple era moves They they dance But they're dancing into wheel kicks. They're dancing into like tornado kicks like it's these are weapons right like their techniques But you could pretend that it's just a dance right, but it's kind of oh that's so the origin is a slavery thing I might be wrong about that.

1:30:45I don't think I am I think that's one of the things that they did was they hit it. They hid their martial art in dance One of these left with left turns we take through our connections of conversation I recently had a guest on my show Who's an expert on Frederick Douglass? Do you know who that is sure? Regrettably not enough Americans that not enough of anybody knows who he is And of course he was in the era of you know when slavery was being abolished And I have you ever seen his face? Yes, doesn't he look as though he's like a newbie in king the way how regal he looks A photo of Frederick Douglass and I told that to the scholar.

1:31:24He goes you're exactly right look at that look at that Imagine that guy teach your classes. Oh my god I'm getting warm and I'm a heterosexual male The man and also imagine to be you know the intellectual and a black man in that day and He didn't know how to read And learned it later And if you read his stuff it's unbelievable like that the eloquence that he had it's not as though he'd learn how to read the way and at the typical child learns at three four five That that happened later in his life and then you see the production of quality produce unbelievable So I really recommend everybody certainly Americans as part of your history read about Frederick Douglass his unbelievable how old was he when he learned how to read So I don't want to misspeak.

1:32:15I'm not sure but let's go probably Jamie can pull it off but probably 12 13 Connection literacy and freedom not a lot of attention. Oh, he taught himself to read and write the streets of Baltimore at 12 We bought a ball there you go. That's exactly what I said so in his 12 13 Um, do you know who Rick Ross is? No, not the rapper but freeway Ricky Ross No, I don't know Rick Ross was a cocaine dealer in the 1980s that didn't know at the time But he was a part of the whole all over north thing where they were selling cocaine in the LA streets And they were using the money all over north the kernel.

1:32:54Oh, okay, you know the the the United States so this is like Pretty established. They sold cocaine in the LA ghettos to fund the conscious versus the Sandinistas in Iraq right? And this guy was the guy who is funneling all the cocaine through He was making millions of dollars couldn't read goes to jail Goes to jail for selling cocaine for the government for the government In jail Learns how to read and then becomes a lawyer and then retries his own case and gets out because they they tried him on the three strikes rule This is how they convicted him on three strikes, but it was three strikes from one incident It's supposed to be three strikes separate things exactly.

1:33:37Okay, and so he got out. So he's out now. Wow Yeah, so he's been on my podcast a few times. He's oh, so I'll check it out. So really in guy. He so he learned how to read one jail in jail Yeah, amazing, amazing. Yeah, so one of the biggest stressors I face when I travel Speaking about reading is I've got a very very big personal library of books Many of which I've yet to read and I wake up every day worried that am I am I gonna run out of time in life and not read these books So whenever I travel and I'm gonna bring a book to read on that trip I sit there the guy who studies psychology of decision -making.

1:34:13I have complete decision paralysis Because I will usually my wife will tell me you're leaving in 24 hours Why don't you now go and anguish get an anguish for six hours as you know my hair is pick a book Yeah, so I'm like oh this one no this one and I'm literally sitting there interesting. Yeah, yeah, interesting You I think you listen to books. You don't read them right? I do read occasionally, but like 90 % of them I listen to yeah I need that tactile thing. I can't do the list. The tactile thing is great, but for me it's a time thing Okay, I can get listening in when I'm in my car and when I'm in the sauna So those are so and you feel you you pretty much retain as much or or not as it's hard to say because it's kind of the only way I'm accessing information these days, but I retain a lot of it.

1:34:56Okay, it depends on what it it always depends on whether or not I'm excited about the information Always if I'm very excited about it. I retain most of it If I'm just like forcing myself to pay attention and then my mind drifts off into something else Then comes back and like that's a little bit of a problem Like if things become repair like I'm lately. I have been listening to a lot of UFO stuff A lot of UFO abduction stories a lot of UFO. I'm going going through Jacques Valais stuff because he's coming on the podcast again And so I've been going through all of his books He's got several books and he's got a very nuanced perspective on this whole UFO thing that is I didn't know and I wish I knew the first time I had him on because the first time I had him on I knew that he was the guy who was It's he inspired the French scientist in the Steven Spielberg movie closing counters of the third time Okay, did you see that movie?

1:35:53I did see it remember the French scientist. That's in 1977. Yes. Yeah So there's a French scientist in that film that is coordinating all these People that are trying to contact this UFO and they're they're working this out like how to do it It's based on Jacques Valais and Jacques Valais been involved in the research of these Experiences that people had had or allegedly had with being abducted with sightings with Crash sites and all these different things. He's been involved with it for a long time. Where are you on the Zero I absolutely don't believe any of this 100. I fully believe in this.

1:36:31What's your score? I The more time goes on the more I think it's way weirder than we think I I don't dismiss the idea that something from another planet can come here and visit us I have a feeling it's weirder I have a feeling there may be that and then also other things I have a feeling it's way more complicated. I have a feeling it's like life Like if you told me that if you go to earth you can find life okay Well, what kind of life are you talking about you're talking about like fish? Are you talking about raptors? Are you talking about dogs like what kind of life there's so much life there's so much different life I have a feeling that alien contact intelligent beings from somewhere other than here is like that I think it's probably more complex than we can imagine and probably there's an interdimensional aspect to it There's probably a non -physical aspect to it that seems physical too There's probably an area of this phenomenon that plays on human consciousness and dreams and our interactions with the unknown Because I think there's more To life than we can perceive I think there's more to The existence this this this conscious existence in this moment in the universe There's more to it than we're picking up on I think we have limited senses And I think that this is what things like the telepathy tapes and all these different people that are studying Paranormal phenomenon I think that's what this is stuff is all about I think it's a part of an emerging aspect of human consciousness that we're developing stronger and stronger senses in regards to things that aren't They're not something that you just put on a scale.

1:38:17They're not something that you could take a rule or two There's not something that you can quantify But they probably exist and if you I don't know if you've listened to the telepathy tapes I haven't but I just started watching I think three days ago a Netflix series So you'll know this better because I don't remember what it's called it's Supposedly a New York case in the late 1980s that's the most famous UFO abduction cases this ring I don't know about the 1980 the most famous cases like Betty and Barney Hill and they were in the 1950s Oh, that's and then the other one is Travis Walton. He's this guy right here.

1:38:53Oh, they made a movie out of it called fire in the sky But maybe I don't know if Jamie can pull it's it's a Netflix series that just it's a documentary series That just start that I think came out this year or this past year There is kind of a guy. I don't think he's a professor But he's a guy who's like the investigator who who co -lates What's it called? That's the one. That's the one. Thank you. Thank you. Jamie. Hmm. This is that you don't know this one No, I'm not aware of all because they they sold it as the most famous Most you know documented case of UFO abductions. It might be okay. I mean, I don't know what to think of those things I've read John Max book John Mac was a Psychiatrist at Harvard and he or a psychologist.

1:39:39I forget which one. Um, he wrote a book called abduction that was all about hypnotic regression therapy that he did with all these different people that had these abduction experiences And they're all really similar like eerily similar and there's no way that they can have them They didn't they weren't communicating with each other. They didn't know about it They were these they were ashamed of these stories. They didn't want to tell other people They were telling them to their shrink, but they weren't telling to other people It's a it's a weird thing man. I and but here's the thing they all come back like no one gets abducted and gets kidnapped Like what's going on?

1:40:10Are you really leaving or is this in your mind in your mind? Did you leave? Like what happened to your body? Where you if I had a camera in your room Were you in that bed the whole time? Is this experience all happening inside your mind? And is it still real? Like just because something's I think there's dimensions that we don't have access to that exist around us And these guys that pretend to understand quantum theory and all that stuff When they start talking to you about it and talking about multiple dimensions It leaves room for the possibility these things. I actually had So I've had a lot of amazing guests on my show, you know top professors of all kind Arguably the best conversation I've had which is saying a lot with a guest on my show is one of the pioneers of quantum computing and Not to serve as this publicist, but I think you know, he'd be a great guy for you to have I love to talk to him.

1:41:01What's his name? His name is David Deutsch He's a physicist by a training. He wrote two best -selling books. I think one of them is called The Edge of Infinity and we try to discuss, you know, what is what is quantum physics? What is how do you apply that principle to quantum computing and Remember earlier I said that there are too many professors who are not intellectuals. Yes, well He's exactly an intellectual because we could sit down and have a conversation. We're at the end of it You were so hedonistically You know tickled in your brain that it's as if you just had sex, but would you get excited?

1:41:43You get excited And so we had two conversations. I'd urge you to listen to our conversations It was not too long ago maybe three four months ago. Amazing guy. Okay very not try to have mom. Yeah, that'd be great I'm fascinated by quantum computing Mark Andreessen was explaining the experiments that they've done where They did a calculation that if you turn the entire universe into a computer Every molecule every atom of the universe was a computer It would take so much time to solve this equation that the universe would dive heat death first But you do it in quantum computing it doesn't work for seconds.

1:42:17Yeah quickly. Is that amazing? Is that amazing? Yeah, it's bananas like what is happening? And he said it's proof of the multiverse because somehow or another this computer Is contacting other quantum computers in infinite number of universes So I know the computing power and solving it instantaneously forgive me for being eager to jump on what you're saying I think if I'm not mistaken David Deutsch is one of the pioneers of the multiverse theory Well, it kind of is the only theory at least as has been explained to me that could work with quantum computing But they don't know what's happening.

1:42:52Yeah, yeah, it's like these guys are making magic Did you do you remember the famous quote you know richer five minutes? Yes. Yeah, so there's a quote I might get it off the quantum computer. Yeah, where he says if you think you understand quantum physics You don't understand quantum physics. Yeah, and that's pretty much how I feel when I try to understand I'm like, what is this shit? I don't understand it. It's so bizarre Just what's measurable about it is so bizarre like articles in superposition So they're they're moving and they're still at the same time. What the quantumly entangled photons?

1:43:22What are you talking? What yeah? What does this even mean like what where is this stuff? Yeah, what is this? I first was exposed because you were just saying about the computational Power that would be required that you could reduce for quantum computing when I was first exposed to AI So I you know my my undergrad was in mathematics computer science And so I had taken an AI course before AI was the the shit, right? This was 1985 and the professor who taught me Was his name is mom. I can't believe I remember his name Monty newborn He was part of the deep blue team that was the the developer. Do you remember that stuff?

1:44:00So is the computer the beat Gary Caspar of a chest exactly exactly And so actually for for one of our assignments in that course we had to develop In a on a game then it didn't have to be chess, but it could be some other game What what's called alpha beta pruning which is if you blow out the decision tree of a typical game Let's say like chest you would need 10 to the 100 nodes if I'm not mistaken Which is more nodes than there are particles in the universe. I think in the universe There's 10 to the 80 so there are more nodes in a chess game than there are particles or atoms in the universe So it would take you so what alpha beta pruning does So right you're pruning so what it's basically doing is it starts testing going down the tree And if it seems like no good outcome can come here you you prune that tree So what you're doing is you're reducing the computational complexity of the tree so that you can arrive to a final solution much quicker so that was the original Time that I was exposed to AI and and at the time I thought wow AI is gonna take over the world And then AI went through a winter Where it kind of died out and it's only in the last three four or five years that really it has exploded But I want to tell you a few Assignments that I had back then and I would challenge someone to solve them on your show and post the answer I still remember them.

1:45:28Okay. I was an a plus student. So here's one Uh If you take a string of ones and zeros, right any string So it could be 1110010010 or it could be one million long. It could be cell. Okay You and I will play a game We start I let's say I start I have to either take out the end digit From this side or the end digit from that side then when it's your turn you take out the end digit from this side or that side We keep going until we get to one digit remaining whomever is left with that digit if it's a one they win if it's a zero they lose do you follow the game so far? Yes So what professor newborn had asked us to do as an assignment 1985 40 years ago is Can you tell us this is called a deterministic game meaning That there is a way to a priori know Who would win the game before we even play just by looking at some characteristic of any string So you understand what I'm saying?

1:46:44Yeah, yeah, so then my question to your and don't cheat and go check it on Google or even I have it on my youtube channel somewhere So the the thing is What are the characteristics of any string that would allow us to deterministically know before we begin playing whether Gad or Joe will win so that's game one okay, and let's see if anybody's gonna post it on you I know you don't read the comments, but whatever what would be a characteristic that you would take a reconsideration So this is not a correct one Okay, but it's too bad that I'm saying it because you can go down that path for five hours before you realize it's not correct So I'm saving a lot of people off of beta Uh, is it a ratio of how many ones and zeros that any string has so for example Is it if it's two to one ratio and I start then I will win or is it yeah, so I could look at a string That's four million digits long or five digits long and I will know ahead of time Jesus, it's unbelievable.

1:47:50So I can't even possibly guess. Okay Uh, I could give you the answer or not. No, okay, don't give it number two Let people simmer in it. You know what I would love I would love for professor newborn if he's still alive to watch this show and say my god I must have trained the student well that he can pull this out of his butt 40 years later Yeah, right. Yeah, so game two or problem two and imagine now you have to go off It's due next Tuesday and now try to solve this damn thing That's why I always tell people just study math and computer science whatever you end up becoming it doesn't matter You're never going to get as good a training as being a math and computer science undergrad anyways Second game you have 12 coins This one I I think is a bit easier you have 12 coins of which One is counterfeit It's counterfeit in that it's either heavier or lighter.

1:48:46You don't know. Okay What is the minimum sequence of weighing that if I had a scale That I can place these on so that I can unequivocally identify Which is the faulty the counterfeit coin and whether it's too heavy or too like Jesus baby is on odds So because if it's you have 12 coins. Yeah, so I could say 12 Because you might fuck it up until the end right no, but then I'll ask you for the minimal number the minimums Well, I could you get lucky on the first two and the second one could be heavier and then you do the third one the third one's lighter And you go, okay, so it's the heavier one. Okay, but then that depends on what the outcome of the weighing was right is there What is the minimal number of sequence of weighings that will invariably converge to the right counterfeit coin irrespective of what happens in the weighing okay And tells me whether it's too heavy or too light.

1:49:50It's mind blowing. Tell me what it is. I It's I okay, so I don't remember the sequence right, but if I'm not mistaken. I hope I'm not wrong I'm sure Jimmy could pull it off I believe that there is a sequence of three steps that could invariably identify Which coin is counterfeit and if it's too light or too heavy. So it's not as simple as just weighing them Well, it is as simple as we know which ones is it you way Is it you you take any two and you so if let's say I take four right and I put two and two and the balance ways Then I know that those four could not have been the counterfeit right because it didn't tip one right because it's the same weight right So in that case by taking any random four Putting them on hmm.

1:50:39I've only eliminated those four But you do that three times you have 12 Just try it. Yeah, but if you do that three times you'll be able to figure it out really good if so if now you got rid of those four Right, so I don't remember what the sequences so we could try to work it out now But I don't think it's as simple as just us doing it if I take another four And I put them out and that comes out as even I get rid of those four I've now done two wings now I still have four right if I take two and two Now if it does do one or the other I'll I won't know which one it is yet and I won't know if it's too light or too heavy Correct, right?

1:51:26So that means your strategy of I just take four three times will not converge me to the optimal solution of three Well, so you have to do it in three steps. Yeah, you have to do it in three steps But by the way, he doesn't tell you and at the assignment What is the number if you just do six and six then if you know because then you would never need to base it on No, if you get six and six you you're sure you're gonna get it this Unbalanced and you don't know anything, right? So that weighing gave you nothing it just confirmed that there's a counterfactual, right? I mean a counterfeit one so you do four and four if you got lucky you catch it on the second one no, but you wouldn't know then because no But if you did what you just said that means it's dependent on the outcome of that Singular time that you did it you need when I'm saying is irrespective of what you do Here is the strategy that will always get you so I don't remember what the family didn't leave me in suspense No, I'll tell you the other one.

1:52:24I didn't tell you the the digit one Right, well the digit one. I don't want you to tell people it'll blow you I could give a singular hint that would almost make everybody get it But I don't want to give it because No, I'll tell you why because it is almost a mystical process. I mean you were sitting there. We're all you know Just give just tell us what it is. We want me to yeah, yeah Okay, so before I do so let me give you the hint to see if you'll get it. Okay, and you don't think I'm putting on this pop No, okay What does This is so cool. What does any string? Whether it's a middleian strings or 20 strings always have architecturally speaking Jen someone asking yes, a number a finite number no, it always has a It starts with m Jamie What is that it has a middle a middle Okay, if you have a do you see where I'm going?

1:53:36Yeah, okay So meaning if both you and I know the deterministic rule right It doesn't matter how big the string is right if I look at the middle of the string I mean, I'm getting goosebumps saying it okay if you look at the middle of this like look if this if the middle is 111 just bear with me. Okay, if the middle is 111 This the string is an odd number Okay, because whether it's odd number or even right it doesn't matter. Got it. If it's an odd number and I start And the middle is 111 I know that I'm going to win Why must be one Because one or zero. Yeah, well no because if if the middle is 111 right so When we're left with 111 I take a one from this side You take any other one and I'll be left with one and I win Therefore if we both know the deterministic rule of the game I will always make sure so when you take out from this side I will counterbalance by taking out from this side and then you take out from this side I'll counterbalance with this side to make sure that we converge to the middle 111 Which I know because it's an odd string And I started the game.

1:54:59I'm always going to get to it. Got it. Do you get it? Yeah, and so the entire algorithm is based on Is the string odd or even That will determine if it's the middle three or middle four and do I start or do you start? Knowing that information The string could be 73 billion digits long or it could be six digits long It's a deterministic game. I know who will win as long as we both know that rule If we both though if I know it and you don't then there's a symmetry Then I could always make sure to win by but if we both know it we don't have to play the game I just look at the middle and I go you're starting or you win.

1:55:42We don't need to play Mmm, it's not cool. It is cool But I wish we hadn't done it because I would have loved to see People's attempts because you learned from how people are thinking How do you understand this quantum computing This multiverse explanation all I mean not I don't want to say nothing But certainly not enough to offer any insights in this conversation It seems so strange and there's no real applications for yeah, which is even stranger Is that they have this computing power, but they're not using it to do things well, but here's where it does So I guess maybe I was being too humble and when I said I don't I don't know anything about it When so here's a mind blowing thing mm -hmm.

1:56:26So you know what prime numbers are yes, okay It's an incredibly easy property to define We know how the number line operates yet you know that one of the open problems and pure mathematics Pure mathematics is basically number theory. It's the purest most theoretical form of math, which is saying a lot pure mathematicians Don't Don't have a formula that allows them to generate what is the next prime, right? So usually right now what you do is you have these incredible super computers and through brute force Someone comes out with we now found the largest prime number ever But it was done through algorithmic brutish force So I can see how a quantum computing approach will allow us to through brute force Calculate much further prime numbers right that today we don't have the computational power to do So I don't know what the application would be But that would be an example of using the the raw computational power of quantum computing to solve these problems What I was getting at was we don't have an application for it It's being used and it's eventually going to be what I was getting at is that we're looking at this astounding Computational ability that's baffling and what happens when that gets applied to something This is what my point was like my point is always what happens when that gets applied to sentient AI When it gets applied to some large language model that's untethered That's that's where it's really crazy because the computing power like one of the big problems with Artificial intelligence is the incredible need for power, right?

1:58:17This is why these Like Google's doing this AI thing where they want to develop three nuclear power plants to power their AI Yeah, like this is nuts. So like What what happens when this insane thing that we have developed called artificial intelligence meets this other insane thing that we have developed called quantum computing So I don't know about that, but what what I can say is that Any type of problem that requires massive computational power because of the Burden some search You can use that for right, so imagine although I don't think you need quantum computing for this But say in medical diagnostics where you're using AI system Why isn't it that we don't what why do we even go to a physician and provide him or her with our Symptoms when it should be so trivially easy To put that into an AI medical diagnostic system and it can look up Rare cases in 1827 in Zambia that exactly map onto Exactly the symptoms the unique symptoms that I'm facing because I went on a safari in Zambia No physician even if he's straining infectious diseases has probably seen that case from 1827 Zambia So I would expect that in Problems that require a huge computational power to search through huge engines Is where quantum but I don't know anything else.

1:59:48Yeah. Well, it's it's gonna have applications as the point and it's It's right now. It's this insane technology that is so above and beyond anything that's even imaginable If you had just said that to someone 20 years ago You're gonna have a computer that if you took the whole universe and turned into a computer He would dive heat death before this thing could figure it out and this thing could do it in a couple of minutes You would go this what what are you even saying? Yeah? You go what? The world look like when this thing becomes real the world looks like we're in some sort of Terminator movie We're in some sort of space movie Star Trek type deal like it's not gonna be like a normal world But it is a normal world and this technology exists my wife just before I came on the show she called me up And she goes, oh did you did you see this deep AI stuff with the Chinese?

2:00:32I said Sweet I'm about to head off to speak the Joe Why are you having a deep conversation with me now? She goes, oh because maybe Joe's gonna bring up something about AI and you might want it all but So anyway, so let me give her food. Do you know anything about this? I do what I do there's a lot going on And what's what's bizarre is that China is dumping insane amounts of money. I think I think the the estimation in the American dollar is a quarter of a trillion dollars Into their AI program their AI program is also Allegedly involves a little bit of espionage so it evolves a little bit of Stealing some of the data from open AI and some of these other places and One of the things that does happen of course with these sort of Enormous technology breakthroughs is that you're gonna have Certain foreign governments that are trying to infiltrate these research centers Trying to get access to this information and the speculation is that they have done that and that they are more advanced because of it Then we are even aware of and that they're dumping untold amounts of resources sort of unchecked The response to this is probably what the government just recently announced what the Trump administration Oh the 500 billion thing right.

2:01:55Yeah, this is probably in response to that. Okay, that there there's an AI arms race That's going on right now and whoever gets to the front of the line first is gonna be in a sane position of power And in a sense it's similar to the space race, but this one is probably more consequential Probably more consequential because essentially when you're dealing with quantum computing and AI And you put the two of those together which they haven't done yet, but once they do what are it? What is that? That sounds like a god It does it sounds like something that can do things that doesn't even make sense It's gonna have the kind of understanding of the universe that we would only dream of right now right and it's probably a week away So a month away or a year away or whatever it is So in a in a happened quick and in a much less sort of grand Context yesterday.

2:02:43I had this morning. I was telling you I was having Breakfast with a colleague from UT Austin. I actually also met him yesterday He came over to the hotel. We went out. He has a Tesla and he said that Over the past month or so. I don't remember the exact time the AI Abilities of the self -driving part of his Tesla. He's noticed a huge Improvement like a really discrete jump and so we were driving We were going to a coffee shop Uh, and he wasn't he wasn't looking at the road and he wasn't using his hands And the car was driving. Oh, yeah, I have one But okay, so for you it doesn't seem perceptually and I was oh, it's no it's bananas Oh, okay, it's bananas the auto driving features not the stops at red lights.

2:03:32It turns left and right changes lanes The whole thing. Oh, yeah, and so this was the first time I was fully immersed in a self -driving car And I was telling him hey, Richard are you sure that this is okay? He's like oh, yeah, no, it's fine I met my children come in and it was like mind -blowing experience. It's mind -blowing Yeah, and what is that compared to what it's going to be? Yeah, exactly There was a I bought my first one I guess Seven years ago something like that and I made a video of me driving on sunset boulevard without my hands I've had my hands over the steering wheel. I led Zeppelin's plan I was like this is so crazy.

2:04:09It was driving down the street and have you how much have you noticed it's much better and okay Oh, yeah, mom much much much much much 500 % better. It's way better. Yeah, it's like okay What specifically it makes better decisions it now it changes lanes to avoid obstructions It puts its blinker on and makes turns it stops at red lights and stop signs. It just does everything It drives like a person. I mean, it still feels weird. I don't like to let it drive. I like to drive Okay, I like driving right? I like I like it's a fun. It's fun And that's a fun car to drive because it's so preposterous.

2:04:43It's like it moves like like a time machine Yeah, it just goes places. It doesn't make any noise. It's real weird So I like driving but the auto driving feature that exists now is just the beginning It's gonna it's gonna get to the point where it's gonna be stupid to let people drive You know, it's funny because uh linking it back to my every research and psychology decision making There was a psychologist who has now passed away a very famous psychologist named Paul Meal MEHL who in the 1950s Was already doing studies looking at what's called actuarial versus clinical judgments What does that mean?

2:05:21Let's suppose I were to tell you that when it comes to making decisions for your admissions to university Using an actuarial model meaning putting in all of your admissions data and allowing a model to decide yes or no as a much better uh Mechanism than to allow humans to make that choice because humans can be hungry at 1145 and they're pissed off because their blood sugar is low And if they're depending on whether the blood sugar is low or not they may make a different decision on the exact same file So that he tried to argue that actuarial decisions for certain structured decisions will end up having much better Farer outcomes for university applicants and people were still Rediscent to allow the machine to make decisions.

2:06:15They wanted to be in the hands of humans And so I think when the reason I thought of this example is because when you said I don't like the machine to be driving I want to be in control So what that to me suggests is that no matter how much actuarial evidence you might provide to people telling them On average you're much less likely to get into an accident if the self driving car drives Most people are going to have the bias of saying no I can't relinquish control. Do you agree with that? Yeah, I think there's that's definitely a factor Also you wonder if the car is paying attention to things that you can see but it can't see right?

2:06:57So what I like to look at when I'm driving one of the reasons why I like driving my truck I have a Raptor and it's it's above the rest of the traffic So I could see people doing stupid things way up ahead So I could see someone slamming on their brakes and I know all these other people are going to have to slam on their brakes too Because somebody just cut in front of that guy and stop dead I can change lanes right the car is not going to know that it's not going to see that it's not going to be paying attention This is not high enough right well It's not paying attention to anything other than the car in front of it or the car to the right and to the left It's not looking at cars like way down the road I'm looking at things like hundreds of yards ahead of me but couldn't a couple of cold lines fix what you just say It might not be able to see it okay.

2:07:35It does it's not going to see it like I see it It would have to have like sensors up where my eyeballs are okay, right? And especially like I'll move to the left lane a little bit to see what's going on over there And I'll move back, you know, I'll move slightly to the left so that I could see past this line when you're Taking into account other people's stupidity The thing is once we get to a point where Automated cars are ubiquitous then the argument for self -driving we're driving yourself rather is going to be kind of shitty Because it's going to be so much better than driving right like you're it's so much safer You're not going to worry about ever being distracted by your phone You're not going to ever worry about you know dropping your drink in your lap and changing lanes and colliding with someone You're not going to think about all those things because the car is going to be doing everything And as good as it is now, it's way better than it used to be and it's going to be way better in a few years now Right It's like I do love driving though.

2:08:30I love the pleasure of driving a car It's not that I want to be in control and I'm worried. I enjoy it. It's like a ride when I was a little kid I remember thinking boy one day I want to be able to drive a car. That's like going to Disneyland every day Because Disneyland, you know, you're on a ride like you know There's some of these little race car rides in Disneyland. They're silly in compared to a car So you're you're on a ride. Well, I remember In 1983 I had gone to help my brother move. He had he had moved to Toronto for a year and then he ended up moving to Southern California And I was going with him to help him move and he took a U -Haul truck and I took his then I think it was called an RX -7 Mazda one.

2:09:10Yeah. Do you remember those? Oh, yeah and it had the cruise control on it Which was the earliest manifestation So I did it a bit on the highway because we have to drive from Montreal to Toronto You just lay back But I didn't I I wanted to be in control of I don't like being constrained by it's on 110 kilometers Right, I want to be able to adjust And so I played with it for about 50 kilometers and then I turned it off and I never used it again Well now they have ones that judge the speed based on the distance between the car in front of you And you can change it So it's like radar laser. I think it uses laser So the laser determines how far ahead of you the car is and slows down so that you have an appropriate amount of stopping distance Right, they're pretty incredible now Do you do you foresee have you heard of those kind of flying Taxis that is this kind of Jefferson stuff or is it real?

2:10:10I think once we get really good at automating cars Why wouldn't you have automated flying vehicles the real concern with flying vehicles is people getting in accidents in the sky and falling onto people's houses Which would happen we think about how the street takeovers where people drive like assholes on the street Imagine that happening in the sky walking your dog and you're dead. Yeah, you're walking dog and boom Your car falls on you that could happen So is that an intractable problem that ends the project right there or no the automation automation changes all that So with automation you have a 3d perspective of everything around it Everything around it has a 3d perspective of everything around it and they're all moving in sync So they all share information that you're going to know where one is at every time But you're not going to be in control you're not you can't just dive bomb onto your ex -girlfriend's house Right, you know, I'm fucking bitch.

2:11:02I'm gonna die You can you know, it's like the worry about humans is human error or you know Doing it on purpose with which which is an error, but you know I someone who used to code in my computer science days sometimes you forget the semi -colon and the syntax of the programming you do But it's gonna be coded by AI won't be coded by people that's true There's already like people that are coding right now will tell you don't go to school for coding Because it's great thing to learn so learn to code is now obsolete Yeah, and that funny like learn to code is what was the learn to code thing we get you in trouble when Pete because Someone had said it in regards to people losing meanial jobs Like I think in the coal industry.

2:11:43Yes. Yeah, you don't have to learn to code which is a crazy thing to say But it became a thing where get you kicked off of Twitter That's how impressive people don't understand how impressive Twitter was you get in trouble for writing learn to code Like you couldn't mock people by saying that ridiculous thing that someone had said about coal miners So can I take credit for having Reintroduce the word into the lexicon did you I think You are looking at the one who made the use of the word retard Oh Let me listen No, no, I'm not gonna get I never let it go. I never let it go Because I got held on to retard Yeah, but everybody did Twitter retards in quiet circles as always existed It's like a smoldering ember that really because now there's a skit that I do whenever I see somebody posting something Yeah, there are two levels I retweet it and then I go are you retarded or if I'm really pissed are you fucking retarded And so now people are creating like memes t -shirts with me and are you retarded some people have said my next book after my current one So a subtle empathy will be are you are you retarded?

2:12:55Yeah, so I feel as though give me a bit of credit I don't give you any credit. Okay, it's been it's been going around It's never died in the median circles Okay, we've kept it alive forever. Right. It's just too good of a word And also it doesn't have anything to do with Down syndrome It has to do with a specific way of thinking yeah, and just because some people you know, oh, you're an ableist That's not what it's about Yeah, I would never use that term if I was talking about someone who had Down syndrome. That's not how you use it You use it when you're talking about someone who thinks the world's flat.

2:13:25Right You're an extreme idiot. Yeah, instead of saying extremity. Yeah, yeah, there's a time in a place for certain words That's why they exist you don't eliminate words and make the world a better place are there any words That you've never used and I've got one go no that you've never used like I've never I mean Obviously, there's a million words in the lexicon that I haven't used just because I mean words that we know that we find Too objectionable to use can you guess what mine would be what is it? It's the C word Really I've never used it and I don't like you mean I'll see hang out in England more.

2:13:57I know That's what you're saying

2:14:01And yeah in my australia, he's a good cut. Exactly. I don't like it. I get it Do you do you feel it do you show my reference? There's a lot of power in that word But the less you use it the more power it has. It's like the old Lenny Bruce bit Yeah Yeah, um, I think that is going to be a thing of the past too I think technology is going to bring us to a point where we're going to be able to Telepathically exchange ideas and it's going to be thought -based It's not going to be based on language and the you know the problem with language Of course you have objectable words words that are used out of context words that you see in print You're lacking the sarcastic tone that the person's set it in so you really you could reinterpret it as being a serious statement There's a lot of weird stuff with language because what we're really trying to do is communicate.

2:14:51Yeah It's a crude form of communication that only exists because telepathy is not good You feel that we're gonna one day be able to just our conversation will just be we're looking at each other in the eyes Yeah, yeah, I think so what would be the material means by which that gets instantiated? How would we do that? Well, I think initially to be technology But what I think is it's an emerging aspect of human consciousness anyway, right? I think we're getting better at it. I think that ironically the thing that keeps us from it is technology Because what is the the worst way to communicate with someone where you're not exactly sure what they're saying is text Right like people misinterpret things and text messages all the time where some one person is joking And the other person takes them seriously or one person doesn't understand that this person doesn't know about something else They wrote something so there is and I may have mentioned this before on the show I can't remember there is something to what you're saying Not quite telepathically, but so you know brain imaging FMRI right?

2:15:52Yeah, so in FMRI I put you through the the machine and I'm able to look at Which areas of your brain are getting more activated either through blood flow or oxygenation or whatever right? So if I'm studying the psychology of fear -based appeals or advertising Well, I expect your amygdala to light up more because that's an emotional center where you expect fear to be processed Right, so there is some researchers. I think out of UCLA That took I can't remember if it's like a sentence So let's say eight different sentences. I'm getting the methodology wrong, but the general idea is valid And based on the activation pattern that they see They're able to tell you which sentence would have been said by looking at the brain image You understand what I'm saying?

2:16:43Yeah Because each of those Enunciated sentences or things that I thought about will necessitate a different Involking of a particular region in my brain right and therefore so I can't Be to the point where I'm able to read your mind in the way that if you and I were having a telepathic conversation Would happen, but at least I'm able to know if you just thought about something fearful or you thought about a house or And so now they're already doing that So I think the analogy would be like this is the first grunts that ancient man Right Developed to recognize particular things and the point of things before they developed a written language that was eloquent like Thomas Jefferson Right and yes, right like as it advances.

2:17:33Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so I so I've written two papers academic papers on the brain imaging paradigm And I used a term that I first learned of from my Doctoral professor I and I did one of my minors in my pc was cognitive studies studies of the brain and his name is Frank Kyle He's now a professor at Yale University He called it the illusion Of explanatory profundity He was applying it to something else, but I applied a brain imaging. Let me explain what I mean by that There are studies that show that if you take the exact same paper And in one version you actually put an image of a brain imaging thing and in the other version of the paper You don't do that and you ask people to judge It's the exact same paper, right, but you put the one with the image people go.

2:18:28Oh, this one is more scientific Right of course the packaging matters because it just showing the brain which looks cool and sciencey with all kinds of activation powder Is sciencey right this other paper which is exactly the same paper doesn't have it. It's not a sciencey So hence illusion of explanatory profundity you you're thinking that you're explaining something very profound But it really is you don't know what the hell you're talking about so I think Brain imaging so far has been very powerful as a diagnostic tool because you could see things in vivo You could actually see certain things that before you had to do an invasive surgery to see But to be able to fully like now there are neuro marketing firms that tell you that sell you Based on the activation patterns of your consumers.

2:19:18We can help you design better marketing campaigns bullshit Right, so they're over exaggerating the capabilities. Yeah, this is a this is a problem when Luddites sort of interpret what science is capable of and then try it based on that Do you know the story of I think it was in India There was a woman who is convicted of murder because through FMRI functional magnetic resonance imagery They she had a functional met she had a functional memory of the crime Somehow or another and the problem with I talked to neuroscientists about that and they said the problem is like she could have Had that memory based on the evidence that was given to her when she was being tried You would imagine that that would have a profound effect if someone told you that you're being tried to murder and they showed you photos of the crime scene You might develop a functional memory of this crime scene We're trying to think like who the fuck did this why am I being blamed it doesn't and we don't really have the capability of it Another one is there was these Italian scientists that were actually tried and convicted Because they were liable of not telling people about an earthquake that took place Because the people that were trying them did not understand that the science involved in predicting earthquakes is not exact It's not it's not like I know an earthquake is going to happen Tuesday at noon or I know an earthquake is definitely even going to happen You don't know it's just and because the fact that these people who didn't understand the science were trying them They wanted to pretend that these people were responsible for not alerting all these and they were trying I think they tried them for manslaughter And they were convicted and I think they won on appeal wow Yeah, see me find that story interesting.

2:21:04It's a crazy story because Actual people who are geologists are like what the fuck are you doing Yes, seven -year legal saga ends is Italian officials cleared of manslaughter an earthquake trial Verticals conviction of deputy for advice given ahead of Laquilla earthquake wow. Yeah crazy Crazy because you have a bunch of assholes It's a you should have known we're going to take you to court and like hey, you fucking idiot You don't even know how this technology works and they don't have to know well even on a much more basic level eyewitness testimony Has been shown to be unbelievably unreliable unbelievably unreliable Pioneer of that research.

2:21:43I give so many shout outs to people who become famous after hearing about you know, I'm sure Elizabeth Loftus Who's a Venerable psychologist at University of California, Irvine where I was for a few years She is the pioneer of having studied the inaccuracy of Eyewitness testimony and once you see her research You shudder to think how many people have gone to the gas chamber You know because someone said of court. I absolutely saw him. It was him. Oh Well, yeah, I mean, I've worked with Josh Dubin multiple times on the show to help people get out of jail This is innocence project he was with the innocence project and now he does this thing with ike poem pro mutter and he's Very involved in helping these people that have and there's a lot of them that are in jail Either through eyewitness testimony or corrupt prosecutors or you know evidences withheld or You know, there's there's a ton of those cases.

2:22:49Are you a consumer of all the crime shows? No Not at all. No, I don't why because this is bad vibes. Oh, okay. I don't need that in my life I'm aware of it enough. I mean, I've paid attention to enough of them. I've read enough books of I've read enough books on serial killers. I've get I get it You know what I'm as a psychologist what interests me is And you see it almost in every show. I like I don't know if you know the show. It's called interrogation raw Where the the whole hour series is There's a case and now they bring in the guy and they're actually filming interrogation that's happening and invariably in almost every case that i've watched It's the same dynamic the guy who eventually Is convicted always thinks that he's smarter than these hick hillbilly cops that no know anything right and Seeing how the cops play them How they really are amazing Psychologists themselves to know how they they're good bad cop they're the whole thing and so I love watching that interaction Because the guy comes in and does his whole song and dance and he truly because he's gotten away with it for much of his life And then you know, I'm just aweshocks a stupid country boy who doesn't know what I'm talking about We talked about this the other day too that I think there's something going on as well The people that lie all the time they don't recognize that people can tell that they're lying Because they're not good at reading lying because they lie all the time So they're not good at reading people because they live in this bullshit world of blinders Where they're just trying to be charismatic and push forth some fake story Like I can't like I watch this one where this woman Hired an undercover police officer to kill her husband.

2:24:41I know this case. Yeah, and she goes into history Yes, yes, and they all know that she did it. They're all where ma 'am your husband was. Oh, I can't believe it She hugs the officer and it's like wow, this is crazy to watch How how rewarding must it be to be that cop? Oh my god, but it's probably hilarious you're like this crazy bitch Yeah, especially Fortunately if you're dealing with a murder that didn't actually take place So here's an incredible story about serendipity and that relates to serial killers So in 1989 Then with a girlfriend we're going to the Charlotte war region, which is in northern Quebec It's about five six hours north of Montreal by car Where it's very famous because the beluga whales come there to me the the white San Lawrence whales I don't know if you know them, but they're these beautiful very rare whales.

2:25:31They're all white And so we had gone up there and we're we end up at this in Uh in the middle of you know Quebec countryside And I walk in there. There's this tall American greeting me I'm surprised I was speaking English. He's speaking English to me and I so I put a book that's crazy enough up there, right? Absolutely and so I have a book with me that I'm reading at the time I was thinking you know, maybe I'll go into Maybe forensic psychiatry which would mean I would go to med school or I'd go into forensic psychology Because I was very interested in criminology, but then I decided I think rightly so that it's too dark for me Also as a career.

2:26:13Yeah, and so I was reading a book titled alone with the devil Which you could probably pull it off pull it up Which is a book that was written by a forensic psychiatrist out of LA County System Where he was the forensic psychiatrist who would interview many of the most famous serial killers that were running through LA County back then the Angela Bueno the hillstriped stranglers the the the the night stalker the all those insane ones in southern california And so hence along with the devil meaning him sitting with yeah And as I put the book down as I'm he's this is the the guy who's checking me into this uh kind of bed and breakfast place He looks at it and he goes oh, I know I know the author and I'm thinking how does this American guy who's in northern Quebec Know this author who's a forensic psychiatrist in in southern in LA He goes oh, I used to be a public defender in the LA county system Then he met a woman who was a Quebecer and then they moved there together and I I used to work with this psychiatrist And as we started talking he goes all I could tell you so this is 1989 sound like a 23 24 -year -old guy with long hair And he goes all like and I was telling him that I have a brother who's in southern california I always go see him and he goes All I can tell you is don't ever ever do something that gets you to go to LA county jail for even a night Because if you piss off the cops they'll throw you in there and they just scream fresh fish out of water And then the guys will have their way with you and so I made sure it's never drink and drive in LA county because I don't pick I would have lasted 14 seconds So anyways, that's hold on.

2:28:03Let me finish. Okay Fast forward to 2013 I am in Lubbock, Texas. I've been invited to speak at the Life Sciences and Politics Conference of the plenary speaker and the political scientists who invited me there Takes me out for a Texan barbecue And as we're chatting he goes you know, I know you're from Quebec. You know my my father lives in In Quebec. I said your father you're you're okay Can I just take a guess who your father might be and you and I I said was your dad a Public defender in the LA county system. He looks at me as though I'm like an oracle He goes yes, that's my dad So imagine I meet a guy in 1989 Based on this book and he knows that guy fast forward many many years later I meet his son who just tells me oh my dad lives in Quebec I take a shot at throwing and it was that guy that I met in 1989.

2:29:09How is that for the metaphysics of life? That's nuts. It's a small world. That's weird. That's weird There's there's certain things that are like okay. What are we dealing with here? Yeah, like is this is this simulation? Like what is this right? Have you seen the the thing about the book from 1953 that talks about Elon want to go to Mars like a Werner von Braun? No, have you seen this? Where's my phone? Yeah, Elon tweeted it you can find it see look There's certain things where you go come on The just even the name Elon and Elon's gonna take us to Mars. Sorry. You mean in in character, so here it is This is in a Werner von Braun book So Elon is the elected leader of the Martian government.

2:29:55Sorry five year term Elon and their cabinet administrator have enacted Have laws enacted by two houses of parliament Elon in project Mars a technical tale is the name of the Martian leader and the connection between the character and Elon Musk Let's speculation about Werner von Braun's influence on Musk's space exploration. Okay, now this is a book from night I think it's 1953. Okay. You ready? Is that when he wrote it Jamie? Hold on See if you can find the the the tweet that Elon's tweet because Elon's tweet is hilarious Because like how is this possible because he's like like this doesn't even make sense.

2:30:31This is so crazy. I do have one non -sexy explanation that could explain this. Okay one of his parents was a huge fan of that author read that book And in honor of that character actually called Elon Musk Elon sure that's great But what are the odds that guy's going to develop rockets? That's true What are the odds that your little baby boy who you're naming when he was one day old? Is he going to develop yeah that part 1953 book Mars project by Werner von Braun says the leader of Mars She'll be called Elon some and pulled the original German manuscript out of the archives debunked the Smith only to confirm that Von Braun did indeed predict you be called Elon and Elon writes how can this be real?

2:31:15It's kind of crazy It's kind of crazy because the guy's literally obsessed with Mars and has created rockets that you can catch Rockets that have you have you seen when Trump explains that yeah, it's hilarious. It's amazing. What do you do with these rockets? It's it's nuts man. We're we're living in a very very strange time What is this this is Elon's dad? Elon's father named him up to read in the book. It's common. I'm amazing. Oh, okay. So that okay. So I'm amazing. I But I love that part still what are the still still what are the odds? There's eight billion people on this fucking planet. What are the odds that your kid who you name Elon because you read a book Becomes the guy and Elon didn't even know about it Wow, yeah, the thing with Baron Trump.

2:32:05Have you heard that? Oh, yeah That's not too Find that one that one's nuts too. That one's completely bizarre Baron the young kid. Yeah, what is it? He'll pull it up. I don't want to fuck it up, but there's there's a few of those that make you wonder where like Is this a simulation? Is this real? I feel like there's aspects of it that are real trying to find the year There's a series of books from like I think it's the late 1800s or something. Yeah about Yes, it's 1900 here, but it's like a person named Baron Trump goes on these adventures Get's a like a guy from Manhattan to be his like guide It's it's very strange and very similar to like what see me can find what the synopsis like what connects it to Baron Trump It seems real weird.

2:32:52It's almost like Like the telepathy thing like someone in the past as I think something's gonna happen one day I just get this feeling this is Elon motherfuckers You know what I mean like there's some I think there's some weird things about the potential futures And that might be also what we're seeing with this alien stuff I think this alien stuff might be the future. Have you how many times have you had Elon on the show? Oh a bunch of books is called the last president. Oh, I blocker the last president

2:33:21That's kind of crazy Because if shit it's the fan the aliens land. He is the last president and I in 1889 novel called Baron Trump's marvelous underground journey Was written by Engle saw lockwood he would go on to write another book called the last president in 1900 Mystery which involves a Trump family Nikola Tesla, time travel and dark forces wow Dun dun dun The castle called castle trump So he's a faulty adventures of a young aristocrat as aristocrat named Baron Trump living in a castle named castle trump Which is fucking crazy the characters describe as intelligent curious and somewhat arrogant guided by his mentor Dawn His mentor, Don, Baron and Barks on a fantastical journey is including one discover a magical portal in Russia.

2:34:12Putin connections confirmed. Jesus Christ. It's like, is this bullshit? Is life bullshit? Is life real? Wow. I think life's mostly real. But you know, this is the problem with the whole idea of simulation theory is that if it's true. If there is a simulation and the simulation, if we develop technology where the simulation becomes indesernable from reality itself, how will we know? Maybe we'll know from goofy clues like that, like silly coding, easter eggs that God leaves behind. I would love to know what was the mechanism by which for each of those stories that you came up with, who came up with, is it was it just a fan of one of those books who said you'd wait a minute?

2:34:57Well, the weird one is why is Werner von Braun writing fiction when he's a fucking Nazi? Why is it in Nazi running NASA and before that he was writing fiction? How does he have time? How does he have time to write fiction when this guy is in the middle of developing rockets for the Germans? Wow. Amazing. I mean, sorry. So what are some of the things that you take away when you interact with Elon because I've gotten, I've been fortunate enough to get to know him better now and so on and I'm just amazed by what an amazing guy he is, what are some of your views? Well, he's just a fascinating human being.

2:35:30Like if we didn't live in a time of Elon Musk and you were studying him in history, he'd be like, Jesus Christ, what was that guy like? That guy must have been insane. He's guys running five different companies simultaneously and trying to develop a department of government efficiency at the same time and like, he's a very unique human being that exists once every, who knows how many generations. And to think that they are so like when this Nazi salute thing came out and of course, you know, I debunked it and there's some way to it because it happened to be Jewish and I know him. But do you really need me to come out with my imprimature to say, no, no, no, no, no, people don't really believe he made a Nazi salute.

2:36:13They want to believe so they say they believe because you can get him on that and he's on the defensive. It's an attack record. So you don't, you don't think anybody who loves you is a fucking Nazi. He literally wears a thing around his neck that says, bring them all home about the hostages. Or did you see when he said, I think I don't know if it was after Ben Shapiro when he went with him to, I think it was Auschwitz or something and he said, I am Jewish. Yes. Yeah. He's, you know, he's a fascinating human being and all fascinating human beings, especially all people that are in incredible positions of power and wealth, which is what he is.

2:36:49You're going to get attacked. Yeah. And you get attacked by a lot of bad faith arguments and this is one of them. Well, the last time I was in Austin, you know, we had, we had met up in person and the, but it was delayed our meeting because he ended up having to go to all sorts of depositions. And so he would be texting me and saying, oh, I'm in this, I'm in this hellish deposition. And then later when we met, he kind of told me a bit about it. I mean, I won't share some stuff, but I'm thinking, you know, if at my level, I get people coming after me, it's unimaginable to even think at what level, right?

2:37:30Yeah. For me, it's a troll coming after me or an annoying academic or an islamist who sends me a death threat. Okay. Fine. But I mean, he's getting governments attacking him. So it's, but yet he just keeps trucking along. It's unbelievable. Well, I mean, it really helps to have $400 billion. It doesn't help. That helps a lot. But, you know, if he didn't buy Twitter, I think the world would be a far more fucked up place right now. I think we would be far more confused, far less free to express ourselves. And the narrative, the cultural narrative shifted because of people's ability to freely express themselves now on social media in front of everybody where you just didn't have that before.

2:38:10Well, I, I mean, literally within a few days of it being, maybe even the same day of it being announced that he was buying it, I had put out a clip on my channel where I said of all things that Elon Musk has ever done or will ever do none will ever count as much as him having bought Twitter. If it, if it didn't happen, you would have a complete cult like takeover of all public discourse. All public discourse would be controlled by this ridiculous ideology, this woke ideology, this what you call a mind virus. And that mind virus would have been used by corporations and it has been and used by government and it has been used in order to enact more control over its citizens under the guise of protecting marginalized people and protecting ideas.

2:39:09It seems like they're doing the right thing and it seems like opposing that is doing the wrong thing, but it's just a wolf in sheep's clothing. That's all it is. It's just control. It's just the, the government was, they don't give a fuck about Dei. All they give a fuck about is votes and power and control. And if they can use Dei to get their way and if they can use whatever green energy bullshit they're pushing, whatever they're doing, they're not doing it because they're trying to save you. That's nonsense. If you look at it from the perspective of this is to gain more power, more influence and make more money, then you'll see things more clearly.

2:39:48So I've, I've been asked by him on many, in many different contexts, do you think that this is it? This is the end of all the parasitic stuff and I keep imploring people to not be complacent in that. Exactly, because sure Donald Trump is a huge doorstop to all the insanity, but here's the analogy I like to draw. So you know how there's the evolution of the super bug that comes about because of the misapplication of the antibiotic regimen. So what happens basically? I mean, it literally is a natural selection, right? So yeah, so because I'm supposed to take the antibiotics for five days, but I only take it for two days and I immediately feel a lot better.

2:40:30I stop taking it. But what that has created is that the weak bacteria have died off, whereas the ones that have survived until that point have only become stronger and through the misapplication of the prescription for antibiotics, I then contribute to the evolution of the super bug. So I argue, so I'm analogizing now with the walk mind virus. It's if you don't completely do the antibiotic regimen fully, which in this case means eradicating all those parasitic ideas everywhere, right? Because it took 50 to 100 years for those bad ideas to originally be spawned at flourish in the university ecosystem.

2:41:15So you're not going to get rid of them in a four year term with Donald Trump and we never see them again. Right. So it has to be a continuous cultural war to eradicate those, now you'd like to think that it won't take 50 to 100 years to eradicate them, but it's not going to start an end with Trump. Right. I'm thinking you agree with that. Yes. No, I definitely do agree with that. And I think that it's also you have to take into consideration, although Trump won and Trump is controlling the cabinet and all these different people are going to be able to do his agenda, you still have almost half the country that didn't vote for him.

2:41:45And people are always tribal and so they're going to be opposed to everything, even the good things that he's doing. They're going to find fault in it. Did you see the CBS interview with JD Vance? Just one clip. Fucking amazing. Oh, so I should watch the whole thing. Oh, my God. It's a master class. He is. He is so good. He is really good. Have you been? Yes. Yeah, he's great. That could thank God for that guy. He's so good at dismantling those dopey people. Yeah. And just breaking down like she was like, this is a country built on immigrants. He's like, yes, that doesn't mean the 240 years later, we have to have the dumbest immigration policy possible.

2:42:23Well, and so actually in my forthcoming book, I'm trying to wrap up now. So it's that empathy. I have a section where I talk about these kinds of immigration arguments and I use something from cognitive psychology. It's called categorization theory. How do you categorize something? So when people say you're such a hypocrite, God, you're an immigrant. Why are you railing against immigrants? Your buddy Elon Musk is an immigrant. And so then I usually give them the following analogy, satirical analogy, but a valid one. I say, phyto, the house cat is a feline. So is the male lion in the African jungle.

2:43:01They're both called feline. Therefore, I'm just as likely to want to snuggle when I go on a safari in Namibia next to the feline called the house, the male lion. No, I recognize that even though they're both called feline, there is a distinction between two. I don't categorize them as an exemplar of the same identity. Whereas what these people play is, you're an immigrant. Why do you rail against immigrants? So is it astonishing that you could have such shoddy thinking that you're unable to recognize what I just said? It is, but it's, again, it goes back to this tribal thing is that people don't want to admit that having an open border is going to let interrests because the previous administration, which was democratic, had essentially an open border policy.

2:43:54And it was based on this concept of empathy. And you have sanctuary cities like New York. And then as soon as the mayor opposes it, well, guess what? He gets indicted like it's also transparent. It's so crazy. It's right in front of your face. And so I don't understand what they're doing. And you know, there's a lot of arguments. They're doing it for cheap labor. They're doing it to get votes. They're doing it. But whatever they're doing, you're making things less safe. And to oppose getting rid of cartel members and gang members and criminals and pedophiles and serial killers to oppose getting rid of them and deporting them is just nuts.

2:44:25Well, they're making sense. The perfect example of this kind of parasitic idea and suicidal empathy is that bishop that just spoke that kind of like Trump, right? They're your dishwashers there. But nobody's questioning that there might be lovely people that doesn't take away from the fact that you shouldn't have an open border policy, but she's so committed to empathy that she views any position contrary to complete capitulation of your border as non -empathetic. Right. And that is the perspective of the extreme leftists. Yeah. And it's a cult -like perspective. It doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

2:45:02It doesn't make sense. What? It's not empathetic. It's certainly not empathetic to the people that are victim to those people. Right. Exactly. Well, it's not empathetic to the, I think, 900 biological women who lost medals. Did you see that study? Yeah. Right? So, but what you do, it's just a small amount. No, it's not. Well, it's 900 small. What would be a big number? Here's the big thing. There was not 910 years ago. Right. Okay? So, what happened in 10 years? And what happens 10 years from now? Are we willing to have all female sports dominated by men who believe that they're women? That's crazy.

2:45:37Right. That doesn't make any sense. Right. Well, in Canada, there was a 50 -year -old man who identified with a, has a teenage girl, so he's competing in swimming events. Oh, yeah. I believe he was a professor as well. I satirized this in the parasitic mind where I said that through transgravity, I identified as much smaller weight than I really am, and through transagism, I am an eight -year -old boy, so I'm competing in the under -eight -year -old competition. Isn't it nuts? And then that actually turned out to be true, where people with that's ridiculous. I remember I watched Dennis Prager on Bill Marshall a long time ago, and he was talking about how men can menstruate.

2:46:15Next thing you're going to be saying men can menstruate. And the whole place goes nuts and screams and cheer like, what are you saying? Because this was quite a while ago. And now it's commonplace. It's commonplace. It's commonplace to say men can menstruate. Have you seen? In fact, tampon, Tim. Tim Walls, the guy I was talking about, he was putting tampons in the men's room. So at Concordia, which is my home university, right? I'm now at Northwood, but my home university had, last May, a one -day symposium on menstrual equity. Because menstruation is a human right. What the fuck does that mean?

2:46:48What does that mean, menstrual equity? How can you get men to menstruate? I'll send you privately, like literally human right. It's a human right. Like, until that symposium, women had been stopped from menstruating in Canada. What does it mean? What does it mean? It's so crazy. Well, unfortunately for us in Canada, unlike you guys have the Savior Trump, yes, Trudeau is resigned officially or won't be running the country for much longer. But we're much further down the woke abyss than you guys are. So it's cautionary tale. Yeah, exactly. So I think, yes, Pierre Poiliervo will be an obvious massive improvement over the problem.

2:47:32Does that mean I say it? I mean, if you say it with a proper French accent, yeah, it's Poiliervo. Other people say it differently. What's the wrong way to say it? Every other way that an American or English -Canadian would say it. I haven't even heard people say like Poli -Vet. No, no. It's Poiliervo. Poiliervo. Yeah. Pierre Poiliervo. Yeah. He's a very logical guy. It was one of the things that was interesting. A reporter questioned him on whether or not he aligns with Donald Trump in that there are two genders. And he said, well, if there's other genders, I'd like you to tell me what they are.

2:48:00That's wonderful. I'm open to tell me what they are. That one was great. But of course, the classic one is the apple. Yeah. When he was eating an apple. That was great. That was like straight out of a spaghetti western. Well, it seems like that's what your country needs. And I hope it happens. I hope he wins. Yeah. I hope there's some sort of a recognition that if America changes course and course corrects and America starts to thrive and do better, which I think it will, and gets the violent crime down and a lot of the issues down and prices down. And if all that stuff happens, I hope Canada comes to its senses and wakes up from this woke trance.

2:48:35I mean, I think it will, but it'll be a longer auto correction. Yeah. Unless you become the 51st day. Come on. Join up. By the way, do you know that I posted a post on Twitter, on X, where I tagged Trump? I said, dear Donald Trump, look, can you invade Canada? It won't take more than four to six committed Marines or something like that, like really to show how wimpy we are. And if you saw the tagging of concordia that I got on X, because people were saying, you have a Canadian professor who is being treasonous and get, how could a human being be so lacking in humor? The same thing is the Hitler thing with Elon.

2:49:23It's like your percent. So they don't really believe it. No, it's, it's an attack vector. They're just looking at it as like, I can go after him now. And this is what, this is one of the major problems with social media. I said, it's like, it's really good for that. Yeah. It's really good for people to be shitty. And didn't, you know, we talked about, it's like, it's the least connected form of discourse between human beings. It's so much shittier than verbal communication and what is eventually going to be telepathic communication is going to far exceed that to the point where you're not going to have to wonder what a person thinks.

2:49:53Right. You know what they think. You, you almost, I don't think I, I've seen you in many years ever engage anyone on X, right? Yeah. I mean, occasionally I wanted to get Peter Hotez to debate with Bobby Kennedy because he was calling me a neo -fascist, it's a neo -fascist leanings like, I was like, this is so ridiculous. Like, I'll give a bunch of money to the charity of your choosing. Oh, yes, I remember that. I said, I'll donate $100 ,000. Yes. You pick a charity, could debate him here, explain what's going on. If you're so smart and you're so correct, come debate him. And nobody, you know, he didn't want to do it.

2:50:29It's just the whole thing is just like, I don't like to do that because I don't like, it's going to sound very hippy. I don't like negativity. I don't want to argue with anybody. I don't even want to argue with people that I disagree with. If I disagree with someone, I'd like to have a discussion with them. I'd like to have a calm civil discussion with you. I don't think things should be, I think you should avoid personal attacks and all that stuff whenever possible. I think it's bad for you. Is this something that you adhere to even in your personal relationship? Yeah, I don't argue with you.

2:51:01I'm not interested. I don't like bad vibes. I can disagree with someone and that's, I will have people on the podcast that disagree with them. I never mean to them. I never call them names. I don't think it's good for you. I don't think it's good. Even if I'm good at it, okay, I'm a professional shit talker. I could talk a lot of shit. If I want to make fun of someone, I can make fun of someone pretty easily. I don't want to. I don't want to. I'm not interested. I mean, I make fun in jokes. I do stand up. I make fun on podcasts. We fuck around and joke around. But in real life or in an actual communication with another person, I don't want it.

2:51:35I don't think it's necessary for you to have a full rich life. I think it's junk food. I think it's essentially like, you don't need to eat chips. Don't eat chips. Chips are killing you. Mountain Dews killing you. Don't eat Mountain Dew. Right. I think negativity is bad for everyone. I think it's bad for the person who pushes it out. It's bad for the person who receives it. It's a reason why people don't like being canceled. All these people are dump it on your insolves, negativity and like, oh, and you feel terrible and they know you feel terrible, so they keep piling on. I think it's bad for them.

2:52:05I think it's bad for your soul. I think it's bad for your self -respect, for how you view yourself as an evolved human being. Like, that you want to do that to a person and go after them like that. Even the only exceptions are if someone's a criminal. If someone's doing something like, you know, if you're the head of a pharmaceutical drug company that's pushing stuff on people that's killing people and you know what it is and you're hiding it. If you're a person who's involved in the trafficking of, you know, underage sex workers or whatever, whatever it is, it's evil. You want to go after pure evil in the world?

2:52:42Okay. I get it. But most of what people do when they're really shitty to each other is like political disagreements or ideological disagreements and it just, it shows your weakness as a person. Well, so I think it was Henry Kissinger who said this to your point. He said, never are the battles so fierce as when the stakes are so low. So I think it's used to your point, right? So people get all animated and I think it's also a lot of people that don't understand real conflict, right? I think people have a certain amount of anticipation, just being a human being again with this old operating system that we have.

2:53:20There's a certain amount of anticipation of an enemy and of a threat and of a thing that you have to defeat. I think it's just a naturally built, it's naturally built into us to the point where people become illogical, especially when they get super tribal, they're on a team. We're on a team, so we have to defeat the people in the other team. So you say horrible things about people on the other team on Twitter and then people retweet it and post it at you and you feed off of it. I think it's a stupid way to communicate. I think it's a stupid way for human beings to think and behave and I think it goes back to what I said before about ideas that you're not your ideas.

2:53:54You cannot be your ideas. If you want to talk about ideas, just talk about what the ideas and what you think things should be and what this is what you think is going on and have and have respectful conversations with people to disagree and that's the best way to communicate. So that's just too hard to find. So I had one negative interaction that sat very badly with me after the fact and I think we've now cleared it. So to your point about not going after someone, usually I'm a very affable guy and warm and the whole thing. But sometimes if somebody pisses me off, I just kind of call him a fucking retard.

2:54:33Call him fucking retard. But usually not someone that I know it's just, but even if it's a person that you don't know, there's a person on the other end of that. That's true. But usually if I call you a retard, it's because you've been kind of doing stuff and listen to after me. So you don't punch a guy if he just slaps you in one time, but if he slaps you 18 times, you're probably going to, no, you should punch him if he slaps you once because slaps usually lead to something else. There you go. Can't let a guy get away with a slaps. So I, you know, I were in Austin. So there was a point where Lex Friedman was doing all the love will conquer everything stuff.

2:55:06And it was pissing me off because it was in the context of, let's say, the Middle East, where I come from where I know that love doesn't conquer all. And so that stick was getting me angry. And so I kind of went after him, not like in a mean way, calling him names, but I said, you know, it's kind of infantile to think that love conquers everywhere or something. And then he got upset and then had blocked me. And that never sat well with me, not because he had blocked me, but because I don't like to have can, you know, maintaining a bad vibe with someone, right? I kind of maintain it if you're still blocked.

2:55:44If I'm still blocked and we're still blocked now, I don't know if I'm still blocked, but you're still blocked. I don't think you unblocked people. You can't block people now. Well, you can block people still. You just can't see. Oh, they can't see. But to his credit, and I think mine, we kind of kissed and made up. And he said, oh, you know, if you ever come to Austin, you know, I'm always happy to talk to you and I'd love to. And I'm a fan of your work. And we haven't been able to connect them. Okay, thank you. I'll connect you. But that makes, so to your point, yeah, made me feel better because they was like this negativity, even though I'd never met him.

2:56:21And I don't know him. I don't like that there's a guy that exists that is in any way upset at something that I said about him, right? He's not a Nazi. He's not a Islamist terrorist. I don't want that. And so I take your point and I'm glad we patched, we cleared up, haven't cleared it up yet with our mutual body. Oh, yeah, that guy, the Malibu meditator. Well, you know, he's on his own journey. But even I've really toyed with just sending him an email and it doesn't matter. Like it's not like he's in my close personal circle of friends, but I don't like having. So I want to say, hey, buddy, you know, there's no hard feelings between you think I should do it?

2:57:04Yeah, why not? Yeah, exactly. It's not going to hurt. I have a conversation with him on the phone. I think, you know, life is short. Life goes by very quickly. And like I said, I think that stuff, engaging in that stuff is just like eating junk food. I don't think you should do it. Yeah, don't think it's smart, but less enjoyable than junk food. Of all the wonderful conversations we've had, one of the pieces of advice that always rings in my head from Joe Rogan is, you read your effing comments. Are you insane or something like that? You had said to me because one time I was, we were chatting and you said, and I was upset.

2:57:42Yeah. And so every time I almost feel like I'm falling into that trap where I'm starting to scroll, I go, Joe Rogan and then I slide it. So there's also a thing to where if someone writes something for some reason, it seems more real than if they just say it to their friend. Yes. You know, people talk shit all the time. They say things and then they say, I shouldn't have said that, you know. But when it's written down, it's out there forever on the internet, which is really weird. Yeah. You know, which is, it's another aspect of it that's very strange. Earlier you were talking about, you know, stand up comments, something, I kind of remember exactly what you're saying, but I thought I'll have to tell him this guy.

2:58:20The funniest bit I've ever seen, of course, you will know it. The bit with Bobby Lee and Brian Callan and another guy, I don't know what his name is, where he's telling them that he was molested by a downstairs, okay? Yes. Brendan Shaw, yeah. So I've probably watched that 10 times and there hasn't been a tedium in my laughter. Like usually, if you see a joke, the fourth time is less funny. So every time I go back to it and I watch it, I laugh as much as the previous time I It's very ridiculous. Yeah, but that's the beauty of podcasts. It's like you could never have something that ridiculous on like Saturday Live or on the Jimmy Kimmel show or any late night talk show.

2:59:04It's like the only place that's no holds barred like that is podcast. Oh, that guy's really funny. Bobby's very funny. It's very funny. I kind of got, I first learned of him. I saw him on curb your enthusiasm where he was, do you know, do you know that he was on that? I didn't know he was on that. Yeah, he's like a Korean bookie to Larry David or something and whatever, some fun and he's speaking with a Korean accent. So I thought, oh, who's this guy? And then I discovered him. And so I watched some of his stand -ups, I mean, some of it is a bit harsh, but he is funny. He's a good dude too. And I saw him in with Bill Maher recently and I'm sorry, I know this respect for Bill Maher, but I think Bobby Lee is a lot funnier than Bill Maher, but well, I know I'm not a professional comedian.

2:59:51They're purely, he's purely funny. Whereas Bill Maher is very political, opinionated and, you know, he has that sort of antagonistic personal style of politics and it's never just about ideas. It's a complete mockery of everything. It's like a comedic bent on everything. Whichever he likes different things, you know, some people like that. You've had him on the show? Yeah, yeah, I've had him on. Yeah. A couple of times. I like him. I don't talk to people like that though. And this is like, as I've gotten older and wiser and had more experiences in life and thought about things more and more and more, I've decided to engage in as little as possible.

3:00:30So it's interesting because you're interested in a sport that's all about combat and fighting. And yet you live by the model of the exact opposite of that. Which I wonder if many fighters might have that because they realize that their physicality is actually quite ominous. I want to live exactly the opposite of that in my personal engagements with people. They also realize like all that is extra energy. So I'll just energy that you're given out to conversations online, arguing with people online. Just bad energy. It's not, it's not a good use of energy, I should say, it's a, it's a improper use of energy.

3:01:06It's a waste. This is why I described people, I'm sorry if I've heard, if you've heard this before. I say, think of your mind as your mind has units of thought. You have a hundred units that you can use. And you're using 30 of them on social media. Arguing. That's a good way to look at it. Now you've deprived yourself of your music or your poetry or your art, whatever you do that you really like to do. You've deprived yourself of your access to your units of thought that can focus on this positive thing because you're spending time arguing about whatever the fuck it is, whatever it is online, whatever it is, whatever you're just why?

3:01:46Why? So let's say, if you forgive me for asking an interest of question, are you able to stick true to that motto as a fight is brewing with your wife? Yeah, I don't argue with like that. I don't never like, I don't get mean ever, never, I don't, I don't, we don't even yell. We'll talk about stuff, we'll, we'll disagree on stuff, but it never gets shitty. I don't think you should talk to people like that that are your friends. I don't think you should talk to your loved ones like that. Yeah. I mean, sometimes you have to tell your friend, hey, dude, you're being a fucking idiot. Like you got to stop doing that.

3:02:20You're going to ruin your life. What were you doing it for their benefit? Right. And sometimes you have to speak in harsh language just to let them know how you actually feel about what's happening. But for the most part, I don't think it's, I don't think it's good in any way, shape, or form. And if you're in one of those relationships where you yell at each other and throw things at each other and call each other the worst things possible, then make up like, well, December 5th, I just celebrated 25 years. Congratulations. Thank you, Sarah. How long have you, how long have you been? 15, 15. Yeah, look, it's, it's beautiful to be happy.

3:02:50It's beautiful to be in a good relationship, but like all things like online communication, like personal, interpersonal communication, it takes work. And you have to have, you know, a thought like, this is what I don't want out of my life. I don't want conflict. I don't want bullshit. And I don't want to be the cause of conflict. So you have to have your own shit together too. Some people they don't want conflict, but they create it all the time by stupid decisions and bad behavior. And you got to learn that too. That's so hot. Are you able to completely do this when people are coming after, I don't come after me all the time.

3:03:25But I don't mean troll. I mean, like, people I know come after me all the time, I ignore it. Right. And I don't engage. Okay. Good luck. You could have your opinions about me. Good luck. That's okay. Have fun. Enjoy your life. I, I self -assess all the time. I self -aud it my own behavior. I'm my own worst critic. Right. So things that other people that are saying about me, whether, especially if they're inaccurate, it doesn't work. It doesn't affect me. I don't care. Right. I'm happy. You are a model to live by, sir. Well, I try, but it's hard work. It's not like this is an, it's an easy thing to, like, to try to stay at peace all the time.

3:04:04Do you ever work at it? Do you ever foresee deciding I've spoken to all the interesting people I could, you do. There could be a point in time. I don't want to do this anymore. But I think it would be more related to not want to be public anymore, not, not interested in, like, having your thoughts out there in the world. Okay. You might be the come point in time where I want to enter a different phase of my life, where I don't think about expressing myself publicly anymore. That could be, I could see that where I'm just thinking about just living my life, doing the things that I'm interested in, because I'm interested in a lot of things.

3:04:39And I don't want to limit the amount of things that I'm exposed to that I'm interested in. What are some of the things that you're taking, you know, the ceramics course that you've always, you, you know, whatever, you know, what are some of the things that are between, like, a full of stuff, between martial arts and comedy and archery and playing pool and all the different things that I enjoy doing. When people tell me they're bored, I just don't understand. I don't understand how you can be bored. The world is so interesting. There's so many different things to learn. But by the way, what you just said is exactly why your podcast has been so successful, because you exude, in French, you say, J 'vois de vivre, right, a joy for living.

3:05:26And that curiosity, that, you know, insatiable love of life that makes you open to all these other people who sit in the seat that you say, give it to me. And if you didn't have that quality, you could have had all the other qualities. If you didn't have that quality, I don't think your show would have been successful. You're probably right. So you're, you're, you're, no, but it's true. Yeah, no, I'm sure. Because I mean, a lot of people will tell, you know, ask me, oh, you know, Joe, what, we on what's his secret? I said, there's no secret. He's a cool guy who wants to have cool conversations.

3:05:57I mean, really, I think the secret is numbers too, but so putting in the numbers, I do a lot more podcast than most people. So I do five days a week, right, four, mostly four, sometimes three, sometimes five, more three than five, but a bunch of fives. But the most important thing is just for 15, 16 years. It's like I just, I've done it forever. And so in doing it for that long over the course of that immense amount of time talking to people, you just get better at talking to people. It's like everything else. You get better at it the more you do it. And then you understand what sucks about what you're doing.

3:06:33What percentage, I'm not asking you to give me anything. What percentage of guests that come on your show the first time you've come to the realization that they're not good enough conversations to ever invite again. Is it a difference? Yeah, it happens. And I mean, I don't want to give a number, but I mean, it definitely happens. It's like you don't know until you talk to someone. And some people, you could tell some people are bullshitting you and some people are pushing into gender and some people just aren't that good at talking and they're not compelling and you can't drag anything out of them.

3:07:07You know, well, this would be a one time conversation. Yeah, it happens. But thankfully, you know, you and I, what does this start? Number 11. 11. Wow. I was going to say 10. And I'll just say this. I think my first time was 2014. We're 2025. So that means we are on one show a year. Well, first bang down. For many more years. Thank you, sir. It's always been such a joyous pleasure. Appreciate you very much. Thanks. All right. Bye everybody.