#2279 - Ky Dickens

25:24This world of thought, where we can't imagine that. We're so bound to our body. We have these dissociative boundaries where it's like, you're Joe and I'm Brian. Yeah. So I think that's what heightens a lot of this for them. It's just not, you know, feeling as grounded into their bodies. In the wackiest of conspiracy theories, when people talk about the government's connection to alien intelligence, that they recruit these nonverbal autistic kids, because they're the ones who can communicate with aliens. I don't believe that. No, I don't believe it either. No. It's the wackiest of conspiracy theories.

26:03But the idea being that if you were the government, you would look for someone who is extraordinary in that they are more open to this ability to interact than we would be. They do not have the burden of feeling foolish. They don't have the burden of societal constraints that we've kind of culturally put on the idea of alien life being able to communicate with them.

26:39I have received a question around, you know, could the government utilize these individuals? You're not discussing this. It's the first thing you think about. People think about that. It's someone's extraordinary. Like the X -Men. Yeah. How will the government utilize this? I'm manipulating it for their own gain. So everybody worries. Yeah. And it's a fair worry. I mean, it is a fair worry. And, you know, like, we try to be very protective of the families and make sure that they're safe and that they're only out there if they want to be out there. And, you know, that's a thing. And even they know what that means.

27:10That's the problem. You say you want to be out there. Do you know what that means? Right. Exactly. But I will say, I mean, every non -speaking individual with these gifts that I've ever met, won't use it for bad or an aferious means. They're interested in love. They're interested in connection. Right. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Well, the problem is if they were used and didn't know what they were doing, you know. They would know. They'll know. They can read your thoughts and they know what's up. They know what's up better than anyone, I think, you know. Interesting. When you first started, was there stages of acceptance for you with these ideas?

27:49Yeah. What was the first stage? I mean, the first stage was, I think, I never had the barrier of whether or not they're in there. You know, I worked, I helped start the inclusion program in my high school and I've worked and cared for people, you know, with varying abilities in my whole life. So that, I knew they were in there. But I think the next thing for me was the telepathy. And when you see it and when you talk to enough parents who are saying, all you need to do is go see it. It's not like, it's not like, does it show up or like, will it appear? It's like, for the parents and teachers report this is happening.

28:20If you go work with a spell, are you just see it? So that was pretty phenomenal. And then the first person we saw being able to do it was this girl Mia. And she was still in the early stages of learning to spell to communicate. So if she was being touched, it often helps like first with the wrist and then here and then here. And then ahead and then off. And then there's no touch at all, right? It's just like learning that body and learning those supports to control your motor. So Dr. Powell was like, no scientists will take this because she was being touched. And I think a lot of us in the room were like, wait, people think she's our mom sending more code?

28:50Like they plan, I mean, of course, that's ridiculous. It really is. But then the next individual could do it across the room and wasn't being touched. And, you know, anyone that we saw there after wasn't being touched. So that was pretty remarkable. And I don't think touch actually is. I think a lot of these are really cool if you're being touched. You know, but so it's a top of these. It was the first one. And then I think the second one was the language stuff. A lot of parents saying, you know, we have no idea how, but she's speaking Portuguese. And no one in a house speaks Portuguese. Or people talking about, you know, this has been documented.

29:23Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. It's quite common, actually. And these are nonverbal kids. Nonspeakers, yeah. Nonspeakers. Yeah. So what is the difference between nonverbal and nonspeakers? Well, I think nonverbal is this idea, right? Like that you're not able to make, like, language, you know, in a way where, like, speaking is just like, they can be verbal. They can communicate. They just can't speak it. Okay. They just can't speak it. Okay. Without the support of a communication partner, like, you know, that is, the goal is it's but type independently. Do they make noises? Yeah. I mean, I think especially with a praxia, there's often a lack of body control, voice control.

30:04So, so there is like a beautiful soundtrack that I've come to love of nonspeakers that will often be like some grunting or just lack of body control. And actually, I think if someone sees a nonspeaker in public, one of the most loving things you can say is like, I know you can't control your body. I know that's not you. You know what I mean? Because the person in there might want to be doing XYZ, but just cannot control their body. And imagine how frustrating that would be. So, these people, they're nonverbal. And when you say that they can speak Portuguese, they understand Portuguese. Do they write it?

30:43Like, how does this manifest itself? Yeah. So, I mean, there's one young girl I'm thinking of in particular, but there's this again. This has come up now with, I don't know, 15 nonspeakers that I've met. But the girl I'm thinking of, her, you know, she will work during the day with a paraprofessional and a spelling coach. You know, there's a, you know, the education system. There might be two or three people in the room and three people were in the room this day. And she started spelling in a language and they didn't know what it is. So, they looked it up and it was Portuguese. And then she started spelling in Spanish.

31:17And they were like, this is wild. And she also said she knew hieroglyphics. And what? Yeah. And then they were like, how do we test this? Because if we know the answer, she'll read our mind and know. So, they had to just... Which is wild. Yeah. Like, you have to worry about this kid reading your mind. It might be bullshit. So, they had to like look up pictures of hieroglyphics and not know what the pictures were representing. To be like, okay, here's the feather. I mean, I don't know what I would say, whatever feather on top of a stone or whatever the picture was of. And here's this picture and this picture and then she identified them.

31:52And then they looked them up and they were right. Wow. All of them 100 % accurate. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So, and I'm not saying, of course not... What is going on there? Not every... What is that? Well, I mean... Like, that is beyond bizarre. Did you give her a cuneiform? I mean, I wasn't there for this. I, you know, her mom reported it to me and it has the email that she received from the staff. And so, you know, the staff is just like, this is what happened today. And, you know, because these individuals are spelling to communicate, it can take a lot of time. It can take a lot of work and effort to get those that information out.

32:28So, any thing that comes out usually... I mean, a good spelling coach will ask this child first, right? Is it okay if I share this with your parents or is this private between us or whatever? But if they say it's okay to share, they will and write a letter home. And this is what happened and that was in a letter home. This is what happened today. This episode is brought to you by Intuit TurboTax. One thing I've learned from doing this podcast is the value of having real experts around. Whether it's someone breaking down complex science, health, or even philosophy, having the right people makes all the difference.

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33:40Your child reads hieroglyphics. What the hell? What does that mean? Is that the Akashic record? Is this child pulling from all the information that's in the ether? How would you be able to read a dead language? What percentage of the human population can read that without AI, without assistance? It's got to be tiny. It's remarkable. Tiny, tiny percentage. I mean, from a scientific perspective. And this was one of the things that there was a professor of Bernie Riddlin, who first, I think, came up with this idea, and then I know Dr. Powell kind of expanded on it, which Bernie Rimmlin first saw this kind of gift in non -speakers.

34:26I think in the 70s, I mean, a while back, and was like, ESP should be considered a Savon skill. And Dr. Powell has talked about this as well. So Savon skills, right, are accepted by science. This idea that like, how do you know the language, or math, or this, or that when you haven't been exposed to it, or haven't been, you know, educated with even maybe the most simplest music skills, but now you're playing a symphony, right? So Savon skills are being able to really excel at something that you haven't been taught. And Savon, there's people who are born with the Savon skills, and also sometimes you can mean accident also, so you get hit on the head.

35:00Yeah, I read about a guy who got assaulted in all 70 people. Yeah, complex geometry and stuff like that. So what's wild is that the materialist scientific point of view accepts Savon skills. We don't know where they come from, we don't know why, we don't know how people can know the stuff they've been taught, but we accept them as these real big question marks as real. So what Bernie Rimmlin said, and later, Dr. Powell was like, ESP should be considered a Savon skill. These people know something, and we don't know how they know it, but they do. They haven't been taught it, they haven't exposed to it, and that could be thoughts, it could be knowledge about the future, it could be knowledge about language.

35:39And this is what the whole hope is about the slap of the daves, right? Is that people will start to put money behind this research. Because they're so long, research around this type of stuff wouldn't be funded because it would be just dismissed, it's impossible, it's impossible, it's impossible. And one of the moms in the slap of the daves who, you know, I love so much her name is Manisha, she talks about her son, she goes, a keel is the data, you want to look at the data, you want the data, like, look at my son, he's the data. And some of these parents are wanting desperate for answers, you know?

36:09It's not, they're not in the question of if it's happening, they're wondering how it's happening. And I think I'm in that part too, like when the people that are just, is it possible, is it possible? I think for most of us in this world, it's like, yeah, you're like 10 steps behind, man, like it's possible. It's not no matter if it's, it's why. And that's my hope is that this can, there's like a, the chains will be like, you know, let off the scientists. These children that can read things, are they typing it out, like on an iPad, or they're writing it physically, how do they do it? Usually, so there's different forms of spelling to communicate.

36:44Often there's like a letterboard, right? Sometimes it's a stencil letterboard that you poke a pencil through, so you really know when you get that letter, and it's really satisfying to get the pullpoke through. Sometimes there's like just a laminate board where you kind of point to a letter. Some individuals are typing into a spelling kind of app on an iPad, or there's different spelling, like a AC devices, yeah. And then, and then there's some individuals who end up going to the quality, you know, the typical keyboard that we all type with on a keyboard. So there's varying levels of ability in terms of using your body.

37:16Yeah, using your body. And the thing I think by spelling has been so, you know, there's such a stigma on spelling, and I feel so bad for individuals using spelling, because they're in there, and they are communicating, but people have said, oh, but you need these supports, so these can't be your words, right? Like, for a spelling partner, let's say, you have to kind of learn to be a communication partner. You have to learn to really understand like the mind -body disconnect, and what's going on with the non -speaker in front of you, and sometimes their hand gets lost in space, so it's good to like pull the board away, and like put it back in again, or sometimes you have to cue them, like, go for it.

37:54Okay, get that letter, because that will help with their motor planning, right? Right. So those supports are critical, but people will look at those supports and say, oh, well, that means they're not typing independently. But to me, that's just wild as saying, oh, you need reading glasses, you can't read. No, that's a support to help you read. Right. You can still read if you've reading glasses, and that's how I think of the communication partner. There's still no influence on the words or letters being chosen. No. No. No. And I think one of the things, so, but the stigma, I think, that really started first spelling was facilitated communication.

38:28Actually, this is like the first thing you asked, so we're going full circle. So for a long time, there was just no hope of getting people who weren't verbal and non -speakers out. There just wasn't. And then all of a sudden, facilitated communication came along, and it was developed, I think, in Australia, I think. But this was ideas of, you know, put some pressure on someone's wrist, so they can really feel where they're at in space, right? Like, they'll be able to spell. And it was a miracle. I mean, it was all over the news. This was great. And some of the first parents that were using facilitated communication started reporting, there's telepathy involved.

39:05And this was at Syracuse University in the 90s. Syracuse knew about this, and started kind of bearing that information. And there was a lot of, like, kind of, you'll be let go. If you're teaching this and you're talking about this, so there was kind of big cover -up. So this was new. This is not new that this was going on. But then, there were some claims of, you know, sexual assault. There's awful things that happened where what was being claimed didn't happen. And so people started blaming facilitated communication. Oh, well, maybe they're pushing their hand or doing this or doing that. And I think for a lot of people who trained in facilitated communication, you're using your hand to put pressure so the individual knows where the body is in space.

39:43But then you're not pushing their hand. But there's probably some cases where that had happened. Well, anyway, so then it got kind of just stigmatized, right? It's pseudoscience. And then so spelling evolved into these forms where it was like, no touch, do not touch. And so many of those spelling groups now are helping individuals. And the big tenant of this is you cannot touch them. And that's where spelling's at now is that you learn to communicate. And there's no touch involved. But I'm one of these people that thinks like whatever the individual needs to help them communicate, it's okay. If you need a little touch, you know, your arm is.

40:17Or sometimes it helps you go faster if there's a little push. Like, I think go for it. You know, help these individuals get out there. Right. This touch is not guiding them towards specific letters. This touch is just an affirmation just to help them. Yeah. To help them relax, to help them connect. Yeah. And it was really, you know, on set sometimes. Because every once in a while, some parents like hold the board and hold it there for their child. And we would use these like dry erase, you know, markers on the screen to be like, is the board moving? And it wasn't. You know, it would be really interesting to get them in front of some scripts that are very difficult to read.

40:52That's why I brought up CUNY form. And Sumerian and maybe even that crazy Voynich manuscript. You know, you know, that is? No. The Voynich manuscript is a book that is of an unknown language. Okay. And it's highly detailed and they don't know what it is. They don't know the language. They don't know if it's a fraud. Oh, look at this. This is the Voynich manuscript. Wow. They don't know when it emerged. There's a lot of suspicion that someone created it and tried to pass it off and sell it as an ancient language in a book. But then some people disagree with that because they think that the way the words are constructed seems to be in some sort of a uniform way.

41:43It's not gibberish. It's not nonsense. But they do not know what it says. Obviously, I don't know jack shit about ancient languages, so I'm not the right person to be determining who's correct and who wants it to be correct. So they're saying that. Wow. I have never heard of that. What is the current state of, yeah, let's see what it says. Whether they think it's real. Is there like a synopsis on what people think is? There's fact similes. Interesting. Okay. University of Bristol subsequently removed a reference to Cheshire's claims from the website. What is the website? Cheshire published its translation in the fold -out illustration in 2023.

42:28He claims that depicts a volcano theory that it places a manuscript creator near the island of Volcano, which was an active volcano during the 15th century. However, experts in medieval documents disputed the interpretation vigorously. Approached for comment, Lisa Fagan Davis gave this explanation. As with most, would -be Voynich interpreters, the logic of this proposal is circular and aspirational. He starts with a theory about what a particular series of glyphs might mean, usually because the words proximity to an image that he believes can interpret. Okay. So they don't buy that this interpretation of it is real.

43:07But they're pretty sure it's a language, which is just fucking insane. Let's scroll up a little higher. Is there any debunkings of it? These are different people that have made interpretations, and they seem to have no one really. No one figures it out. Yeah. Various discussions. Yeah. Wow. Imagine if you can get that in front of a non -verbal kid. And he's like, oh, I know what that is. I mean, that would be pretty wild. That would be pretty wild. Yeah. Jesus wrote this. Oh, he says he's coming back in August. Like, whatever it is. I mean, this is the fact that the child can read hyroglyphics is insane.

43:45I would love to see. Like, cuneiform or Samarian in particular, we had an ancient language scholar named Wes Huffon, and he was explaining how a lot of these interpretations were of the Samarian text, which is the oldest version of a lot of these biblical stories. In fact, he was like, I can't read it. He goes, I can read all these different languages, but this one is so different than all the others. And it doesn't have anything that's like it. Like, a lot of these other languages, so you can find similarities in the way they're structured, the way the sentences are structured. There's none of that with Samarian.

44:22It's like, this is a wacky language. He's like, I can't read it. That's so long. And he was brilliant. So when you talk to a guy like that, who's humble about it, but also very well read. And he's like, I don't know. Give that to the kid. It's so interesting. Yeah. I mean, it seems like there's a lot of opportunity to really get into that with these nonverbal kids if you find one that, is there more than one that has this ability to do this? I mean, I can only comment on the people I've met, but I think of all the people that we're talking to a lot, you know, for the project and now the film. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely more than one.

45:02I mean, at least I know 15 or 20 who seem to know various languages they haven't been taught. 15 or 20. Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah, and one of the earlier children that Dr. Powell was studying, this boy knew really a kind of odd language, like Russian and Japanese, and I think he was five or six, and could just speak in different languages and new different languages. It's absolutely remarkable. Wow. Yeah. And is there, like, even the most out there theory about what's going on? I mean, this is the thing, right? There hasn't been a lot of research around this phenomenon. And I think I can only go again off of what Spellers have said.

45:50I mean, one thing is that they say that there's a neurology behind language, right? The current, the most baseline language is not with words. Words are these 3D objects that we attach to these thoughts and feelings, and that is the thing that they can understand, which makes sense. That would be what telepathy is, right? If you're not using words. Well, that is our version of telepathy. We make noise with our mouth, and then you can read my mind. Sort of. Yeah, kind of. I mean, in a clumsy way. Yeah. But if you think of prayer, right, that's telepathy. And people who come back from near -death experience, and they say they have these communications with someone, you don't have a body, that's telepathy, right?

46:28Like, if a medium is talking to someone, or getting messages from someone who's passed, like, that's telepathy. So it seems like the baseline, to me, like, all of this is proven for me that we have a soul, or, you know, there's, or there's at least, if that word is triggered under someone, that at least there's a conscious body. There's a consciousness in each of us that doesn't need a body. And so I think the language thing is like, we've put words over this thing, but the telepathy, the baseline, is there no matter what. And if you can understand the baseline and what's being communicated, the words don't matter.

47:03Does that make sense? It does. Yeah, it does. It's hard to grasp, but it makes sense. Are you aware of the history of research in ayahuasca? I mean, I know what it is, but yeah, like... One of the more interesting aspects of it is when scientists first discovered it, discovered its properties, and they did experiments on it, they wanted to call one of the ingredients telepathy. But due to the rules of scientific nomenclature, they realized that it had already been named harming. So this harming is one of the ingredients. It's in one of the plants that's used to make this brew. But when the scientists explored this and started experimenting with it, it was somewhere in the early 20th century, they realized that they could read each other's minds, and that they were communicating, and that they were having a shared experience that seemed to be completely mental, but independently, they all verified the exact same thing.

48:07And so that's why they wanted to name it telepathy, which is a way more fun word than harming. Way more fun, yeah. But this idea that we need something to access this dormant part of what is human consciousness. Yeah. And I think that type of stuff can really help, right? I mean, people... I think what's cool is that a lot of the research on psychedelics is kind of converging with this stuff right now, you know, around telepathy and the non -speakers. I think a lot of people have had these experiences on psilocybin or on an ayahuasca trip or whatever, where there's this realization that we're way more mental.

48:49There is a non -physical world that is out there. Yeah, there's something. Yeah. And this work and Thomas Campbell's work, and there's a bunch of people who are considering this now, which I always wonder, like if you get an enormous number of people that have a shift in the way they view reality itself, like what impact does that have on reality? Yeah, I mean, I think that's a big thing, right? And I keep thinking, you asked about the pushback around this. And what's interesting is it's not just from skeptics who don't want to believe in telepathy and that the non -visible world is real, but also from people in the spelling community who don't want people to mention telepathy out of fear that it's going to foil their efforts to make this like standard practice in schools.

49:39In fact, some of the teachers and others who've been involved in our project have been getting letters from the IASC, like a spelling group saying, don't talk about telepathy or you're going to have your accreditation taken away. Why? I don't understand. Why would that mess with spelling? I think the fear is, I think, I think the fear is that if you, I don't, I actually don't know. I mean, because most of the people I'm working with, almost all of them. Every single one of the people I'm working with has, sees this has happening in their homes and their classrooms and it's not just teachers and parents and ministers and rabbis and parapsychologists and speech pathologists and occupational therapists.

50:20Like, these are all the people reporting it, right? And for them, I think the thing is truth is never harmful. It might be difficult, but it's not harmful. And what this truth means is that we have to change our systems, right, of education. We have to change how we think about things. And I think there is a deep fear of people having their darkest, deepest thoughts exposed. That's probably not comfortable for the government, for people in the troll, for people who are controlling these. Oh, I think that's common, whether we like it or not. Yeah, yeah. But why, I think this truth might be really uncomfortable for some, but it's so important to get out there.

50:54You can't accept and love someone as a whole being unless you can see and know all of them, right? And the only people I feel really in service to are the non -speakers who haven't had a voice and all the people loving and supporting them or who are saying, this is real, we want this out there. And so the gatekeeping around this has been massive. I mean, yes, from the science world, but also from the spelling world. But why from the spelling world? That's what I don't understand. I think there's so many challenges of people saying, oh, because they're using these supports, these words aren't their own.

51:26And then I think there's this conflated idea, like, oh, if they know they're people of telepathy, they'll think their thoughts aren't their own either. And it's a weird idea because just because you're talking to me doesn't mean that I don't have my own thoughts or words, right? Like, I can read a book which thoughts are coming at me. It doesn't mean I don't have my own thoughts. So you can hear thoughts and that doesn't mean you don't have your own. I mean, so it's like putting too much together that I think is talking about celebrities not going to foil spelling. But some people believe that to be true.

51:59And that doesn't just doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah. Like, why would any, I don't understand why spelling would even get involved in this? I don't know. Like spelling is universally accepted as being important. Well, this episode is brought to you by Buffalo Trace Distillery. Actually have some Buffalo Trace cigars here they just sent me. One of the world's most award -winning distilleries that's been making whiskey the same way for more than 200 years made as a tribute to the rugged free spirited pioneers who blaze their own trail to new frontiers. It embodies the perfectly untamed spirit of independence.

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53:39Cool, but this is the problem. Spelling is not... So I just talked to a parent the other day who said, I've been trying to get a communication partner with my daughter in school, so she can contribute. And the school system will not pay for that. They're like, nope, you cannot have a spelling communication partner. Is that just a funding issue? Well, no, there's a group called Asha, the American Speech Language Association, who accredits speech -language pathologists, and they say that spelling is pseudoscience, and I don't know how communication could be called pseudoscience. What? And so, if you're a speech -language pathologist, and you want to teach spelling in schools, that's considered like...

54:21Wait a minute. Why would they say, I don't understand, what is the argument that spelling is pseudoscience? This is such a controversy that it's just maddening. I think, again, it's because of those supports, because you need a partner to spell. It's considered, oh, well, you're not spelling independently. So, spelling is pseudoscience for non -verbal people, or non -speakers, I should say. Well, it's not, but Asha is saying that, which is making it... And they're only saying this because of the touch, the ability to touch people while they're doing it? Well, mostly, these individuals aren't being touched.

54:57I think that the problem is... I mean, the problem is that no one's pursuing competence. So... So, this is why it was confusing. You're saying spelling in regards to non -verbal people. I'm sorry, yeah. Okay, spelling. Okay, I shouldn't be asking for these things. Yeah. So, spelling is kind of the catch -all phrase for pointing to letters to communicate. Be it on a letterboard, or iPad, or even a keyboard, like what were you two with a computer? So, they're going by this old concept that it's impossible to have any sort of psychic ability. So, if you're proving psychic ability through spelling, this is obviously bullshit without any examination of it.

55:37Yeah, I think that's a good summary. Back to what we were talking about before, that they don't want to be foolish. Right. So, this is a compounded issue. But one thing that's kind of... I thought this was fascinating, is that any type of alternative form of humocation has gone through immense battles to be validated. Like, oh my gosh, sign language. In the 1800s, there was a conference in Milan where everyone's like, we cannot teach sign language. Like, this is, people need to try to speak, you know. Sign language went through battles for, I mean, over 100 years, to try to even get accepted as a real language.

56:15And it was until the 70s or 80s when that happened. And then Braille, Louis Braille, who invented Braille, the people at the school where he invented it was like, you guys can't use this. We don't accept this. And we don't believe you can read by touching dots and we don't believe you can type by poking holes. That's impossible. That seems nuts. So when they did, they would do these tests with Louis and other students to be like, okay, you write one word and you spelt, you know, and you read it with your dots. And they did, and then they'd say, it's fake. They planned it. They pre -plan the words.

56:46And it wasn't into multiple, you know, variations that finally Braille was accepted. And now we're seeing the same thing with spelling to communicate. They need a communication partner. Just like, to read, you need glasses. It doesn't mean they're not communicating on their own. They just need someone to help support their motor control. So you're just using the term spelling in a different way. Most people are cussed. That's why I had more clarity. Yes, yes, yes. Super confused. Yes. Yes. So that seems like that's on them. I mean, if there's evidence that it works, like they should be brought up and people should say, like, what you're doing is a disservice, like a huge disservice for whatever reason, for your own ego, for your own...

57:25Well, yeah, I mean, you think about it, right? For, now, you know, decades. If you have a praxia and you're a non -speaker and you're considered you're not in there, people will treat them and put them in school systems where they're trying to teach them to, like, behaviors that are impossible if you can't control your body. And then often teach them over and over colors and shapes and teach them, like, they're not getting it. That they're not smart. So they've been robbed of their education. They've been robbed of an entire livelihood. So to admit that we've been wrong about this entire population and educating them wrong, I mean, that's a lot of reckoning.

57:59That's a lot of wrong. And ABA therapy, which is now what kids go into, it's a multi -billion dollar industry. And I think that they profit very much so from having kids go into this type of therapy. And I think ABA therapy can be helpful for some people. It can be, you know, but for a lot of non -speakers with a praxia, it's like traumatic because you're talking... Would it be ABA therapy? It's behavior therapy. And that's, like, what insurance will cover if you have... Yeah, there we go. Insurance. Yeah. To get to the root of it. Yeah. I do think it is. I think there's a huge financial gain.

58:32ABA therapy and ASHA. And I think it's all in bed together. No, money fucks up everywhere. It does. But if anyone listening to this, the number one thing is that, like, if you think of a human rights violation, right? You, that non -speakers aren't allowed to go spell in schools to communicate, to participate socially. Right. You know, because these are individuals with ideas and thoughts and career hopes and want to date and want to have friends and want to be involved. And yes, they can't control their bodies. But they can communicate and be leaving them out because, oh, we can't afford it. We don't believe that you should have a communication partner in school.

59:09It's just mean. It's a human rights violation, I think. It's bizarre. Yeah. I mean, that's... Yes, it's also very bizarre. And it makes sense when you connect to insurance and money in an industry. That's where it gets gross. They're against the competitors, which is probably truth. Yeah. Because if spelling, if you could be... If they'd say, hey, we will prove for spelling to be covered by insurance. Every family could go do this. Right now, you've just spent thousands of dollars off and go to a conference to an online thing. It's not cheap. It's not affordable. It's not easily accessible. I mean, it can be depending on where you live, right?

59:44But like... But it's not easy. That would be a lot more money to go away from AVA therapy. Right. Of course. God, it's always the root of it all. You get to it. There's someone who's profiting and doesn't want to stop profiting. Yeah. Yeah. And the whole industry of a bunch of people working and... Yuck. So, you first recognize that there is some sort of an ability. When do you start expanding your idea of what children can't do? What they can and can't see? Like, when does it get to where you're at now?

1:00:29So... Like spiritual gifts. When do you start accepting those kind of things? Yeah. I think the corroboration of person after person after person was really helpful, you know? Do you remember like the first one that made you reconsider or consider? Well, okay. So the telepathy was definitely that... Okay. That became pretty quickly and it was really funny to us how like the people working on this like on my crew and my camera guy and stuff. My DP Michael, like, would quickly... We were all kind of like, okay, this is happening. Like, you'd get almost bored seeing it. Like, because it became so common and so easy that like the telepathy quickly became unimpressive, which is...

1:01:05That's so nice. So wild to say out loud. But then it would be... Like, I remember Houston who's a beloved individual. Both in my life and also in the project and his mom as well. He had this relationship with stones where he could feel like the energy of crystals. And Katie, his mom, is, you know, an evangelical and didn't put much stock into any new age thing. And I think she went to get a massage and they gave her like a bag of crystals and stuff. And she was like, come on and kind of put those in her, you know, bathroom upstairs behind one door. And, you know, and Houston came home from school, like, just ran into the primary bedroom and then went to the bathroom and found the rocks.

1:01:44And like, I was so excited to put them in lines next to his bed and wanted to put his head next to them. And he could feel the energy coming from these stones. And I always thought, okay, people believe in stones and maybe they matter because people believe in them. But like, I didn't actually think that they had energy or like healing gifts. And here's Houston going, feeling the stones. So that made me think, what? Okay, maybe there's something here. Enough individuals saying they could see Oros around plants and animals and people. So that was something I started being like, okay, this is happening enough and enough that I believe that.

1:02:15And then the language was the next thing and that was pretty remarkable. And I'm not saying every non -speaker has these gifts. I'm just saying the people that I've met that have been in part of this project and there's an awful lot to do. And I think probably the gifts changed for a person too, right? How often do you see the language thing? I should send out another question error, but probably every five individuals. But that's a rough number, but it would be interesting to like survey. Are there any other data points that would indicate that someone would be more likely to have these language skills?

1:02:57Is there any factors about these individuals like the differences in their conditions or the environment? Well, this is one thing that has been really remarkable. I think especially since the Swap of the Hades came out is how much belief and just like acceptance of these type of things matters for them to show themselves. So I was talking to a parent the other day who's not in the Swap of the Hades of someone I've met through this and she said, look, my son after the Swap of the Hades came out, he's about 19, said, I need to come out to you. I can also read your mind, but just never felt comfortable saying it because didn't think his parents would respond well, right?

1:03:40And another teacher was telling me, look, now that this has come out and I've realized this to be a truth in her clinic or classroom, she will do 10 minutes for thought sharing in the beginning of the day or I think I'll talk to Lepa and hang out. And she said it's like the one of the only times when they're all quiet and they're just thought sharing. And she said that now the Swap of the Hades out and more and more parents are like being told this and accepting it because when I fell into this world, before the Swap of the Hades was out in the world, almost every single parent or teacher I met was thinking this was an individual miracle happening alone in their house.

1:04:16It couldn't tell anyone, even sometimes the spouses were fighting. I met one parent once, not in the Slappley tapes, but you know, I met her in the journey and she said, my husband wants to take my child away because he thinks I've lost my mind by saying that this is happening. So, you know, so now that it's out there, I think it's a, it's just thing about it. If you have kids, right, like if you believe in your kids, I believe you, I believe in you, it makes a difference. The placebo effect. We know placebo effects works if people believe in something makes a difference. So, when you say to a non -speaking individual like, I want to know all of you, I'm excited to know all of you, even if that means that nothing you can tell me is going to scare me or make you love you less.

1:04:58Or, you know, I think that's a cool way to approach anyone really. Yeah, certainly. And I think skepticism and cynicism is probably also contagious. You probably feel that negative doubting energy, which is very suppressing. You know, just like, and if you're already non -verbal and you're already like dealing with a lot of other stuff, like that negativity on top of it, you probably not want to even try. Right, yeah. Yeah, there's a shame that I think. Just negative feelings. Yeah, yeah. Do you think this is something that you have? I think we all have it. Have you tried to encourage it in yourself or have you tried to explore it?

1:05:51Well, because I would imagine if I was doing this work, I'd be like, let me see if I can do this. Yeah, yeah. And for sure. And I will, you know, I often pray at night, and sometimes I'll also just beam out thoughts to some of the non -speakers of my life, and hope they catch them, you know. And, you know, they're loving thoughts, usually, of course. And then there's been a few times where I'll see a non -speaker that maybe, you know, I've come to know and love in a dream, and they're communicating something to me, you know. Write the parent in the morning and say, can you ask so and so if they were trying to communicate, X, Y, Z, at all, or, you know, where they tried to communicate with me last night, as usual, and they'll say, oh, yeah, they wanted you to know, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink.

1:06:39And it'll be what happens. But that's only happening in dreams, not in real life. I mean, dreams are real life, but yeah, so I think this, I think the more people are open to this and practicing it, it's there, you'll get there. And a lot of teachers are able to get it back, to wait till up at the where they can start hearing their students back. And they said, you know, there's a teacher, and I love this story because I heard her on a podcast, actually. And it was sent to me, I was like two years into my journey. And this teacher thought, no one else in the world was going through this, and she said, there's a student, and he's telepathic, and he can read my thoughts, and then all of a sudden I started being able to hear him back.

1:07:18And I'd be cooking dinner, and I'd hear him, or, and he would tell me things, he'd just pop into my mind, and he was younger. So she had to set parameters, be like, you can't come into my mind all the time. But she said that in the classroom then, they started being able to teach, do the whole thing, the whole lesson without talking. She'd ask something in his head, he'd start typing it, she'd ask something else in his head, he'd start typing it. And that was something that, like a lot of teachers have expressed that, or speech pathologist. And I often wonder, why is it easier for the educator instead of the parent?

1:07:52And I think it's because parents put so much stuff on our kids, right? Like if I'm watching my son play basketball, and he's not boxing out, and he's not doing this, I'm like, oh god, oh god, good enough watch. But if it's someone else's kids, I'm like, oh, they're five, they're just learning. I have no care if anyone else's kid is doing this. So I think with our kids, we put all this baggage on them, even if we're not intending it, the energy is so great. Where if it's just free, and you're just wide open, and you're just ready, I think some cool bond can often happen between anyone. But certainly, at least with my experience, it's been more educators than parents that goes into this two way thing.

1:08:29This teacher, did they explain what the sensation was like, hearing the words in their head, how did they receive these things? So at this point, there's a lot of teachers, so I have a little bit more data points on this. And for her, she was hearing like a voice and had very clear, very clear. Was she hearing that she interpreted as the child's voice, was it a child's sound? Yeah, and that's what's so cool is for some of the individuals who've kind of gone through this, will say, you just know it's their voice. Even though they don't have a voice in the real world, you just know it's their energy imprint, right?

1:09:03This is their voice. But then I've met some teachers who were like, no, it comes in as a visual package, if you will, right? Or one of the most beautiful things I heard from a mom in England. And I think her story's great because she knew this was going for years, was scared to put it out there. She finally did. I'm not getting any younger. I'm putting it out. And then of course, there's a lot of parents around England that were like me, me to me to me to this is happening to me. And she once explained it to me in the most beautiful way. She said, if you say the word with a word, Thanksgiving, you've just said the word Thanksgiving.

1:09:34If you send it to help pathically, you receive the smells, you receive the sleeping in your childhood bed again, like your crotchety uncle who's mad about that, like the game of the, you know, the sound of the football game, maybe snow. This person walking out the pie, like the prayer you say, whatever it is, all the things that make your experience that comes to you. And there's no misunderstanding what this means and feels and is, and it's this whole expansive idea. So I think she receives things that way. Wow. Yeah, it's really cool.

1:10:09It's so cool, but it's also because of the cultural restrictions that we have put on the idea of telepathic communication, even while you're saying this, and I'm so fascinated and I believe it for sure. Part of me is like, shut up. You know what I mean? It's like that part of you is strong. Yeah. And I wonder if that part of us, unfortunately, because of all the charlatans and because of the cultural restrictions on just the concept of telepathy, I wonder how much of that holds us back. Because there's some things that you do know, and you don't know why you know them. You know, and if you're a person who goes on instincts, you'll follow those instincts and you go, I have no idea how I knew that was the right thing to do.

1:10:57But it was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, I think one thing is experiencing something. You just believe it, like I said. And I think anyone who has engaged with walks into a room with a non -speaker going to do this, which from my experience has been quite a few. It's not hard to see. It's pretty easy to witness it. And so when you experience something over and over and over again, right? It's like, are all these parents and teachers all around the world and speech pathologists and principles and ministers and rabbis and everyone who's witnessed this lying? Did they all come in this bright conspiracy to decide that we're going to trick the world?

1:11:41Or they're experiencing something and telling the truth? And the first one is out there. That's the most impossible thing to imagine. And the other thing I want to say, too, is like there's a motivation for someone who's a Charlton, right? You want to make money off of someone or something when they're especially and they're the most vulnerable. You're going to exploit this and et cetera, et cetera. Or it's for your own ego, your gain or career or whatever. You know, to date, because non -speakers have not been able to have their resources that they need to spell and engage in society, they've not been able to have a career yet.

1:12:11I mean, somehow, but very few or make money on their own or, you know, be in the popular crowd or have some cool whatever. And so what's to gain? What is to gain? And it's also takes so much energy off and to spell out something. I can't imagine that you'd spell out a lie. I mean, there's nothing to gain in this entire population talking about this in silos all over the world. Right. And also very few people engage with non -verbal people. So for this to be this very bizarre sort of strange phenomena that's happening with these people, you would have to be in that experience with those people to even be able to appreciate what's going on.

1:12:59Yeah. I think most people, you know, were so accustomed to talking, were so accustomed to typing things out and communicating the way we do normally, that we don't even think about what the experience is like for both the parents and the child and that this is a completely different way of living. So whatever these innate abilities that we may have, of course, they would be the ones who would have them. It kind of makes sense that they would be the ones that would be so tuned into us. We're sort of probably drowning those thoughts, even if they do exist. We're drowning them off with language, with cultural expectations, with social media, with news, and...

1:13:42Yeah, with thoughts. ...with everything, with all this. We're bombarded. We're never even alone with our thoughts anymore. Right. We're just bombarded, constantly 24 -7. And I mean, this is the number one criticism of our social media is that shaping your mind in a way that you're not even asking. You really don't have agency over it, which is constantly being bombard with data, and that data, whether you like it or not, even if you're objective, it's changing the way you interface with the world. These people aren't experiencing any of that. I mean, I think they're probably experiencing, like, I think they have so much input coming in, you know, that it can be overwhelming.

1:14:17But, right, it's not informing their... Yeah, I mean... They're not engaging. Yeah, they're not engaging. Yeah. Yeah, it's really... It's really remarkable, you know. Well, beyond, right? Yeah. Because it changes the way we think about human beings. It changes what our potential is. I've always thought that it was an emerging aspect of human consciousness, but then as time has gone on, I think... I start to think probably more than that. It's probably, as always, been there. Yeah. You know, I mean, animals have weird abilities that we don't understand. Like, the ability that birds have to navigate.

1:15:00We don't understand what that is. We don't understand how they're doing that. But we know they do it. Mm -hmm. You know, and they have... Also, there's some ability that animals have to read electrical signals. Yeah. To read magnetic signals. Yeah. Like, what's going on there? Yeah. What are they doing? You know, Rupert Sheldrick, again, who's in the project, he's the biologist from Cambridge. He talks about something called the mental field. And that was like a good handle for me to start to understand how this could be possible. And so, by that, we know that the field can exist beyond something and we take it as part of science.

1:15:35Like, we know the Earth has a gravitational field. You can't see it. You know, it's there. But, but, you know, it's real. And we know that magnets have a magnetic field. We can... You know, you can't see it. But, you know, it's there. And so, his theory is that our mind has a mental field that stands outside of the brain. And this mental field can, like, overlap with someone. And that a great example of the mental field, if you will, would be when you see, like, our murmur of birds, or a school of fish, and they're all turning at the same time. Yeah. They don't bump into each other. They're not, like, having concussions left and right.

1:16:03The bird ones, the wild. It's wild. It's like they do it. And then the school of fish is essentially the same thing, but in the water. And then water. Yeah. And it's like they have one mind. Right? It does feel like one mind. And so, this beautiful idea, it's not... It's not... It's just out there. And one of the things I came across that I absolutely adored as well was that Mark Twain. He had... He coined this term mental telegraphy. And what he was responding to was kind of what we think of as phoenixopathy, but that someone would write a letter. Let's say he wrote a letter. So, I'm just going to make something up.

1:16:38Like, great Aunt Margaret, right? And he hadn't written to her in seven years. And he post -marked it on March 2nd. Well, you know, maybe two weeks later he got a letter from Aunt Margaret post -marked March 2nd. And that would happen a lot in the time of letter swapping. At the same time, both people thought of each other. They hadn't written to each other a lot in time. The letters were postmarked on the same day. You know what happened the same day. And there was such a concrete evidence there. Wow. And so, he wrote a lot about that. He thought that was fascinating, you know? And like, opt -ins and Claire who wrote the jungle.

1:17:08You know, wonderful author. He wrote a book called Mental Radio where he was trying to do telepathy experiments with his wife. And she would think of something or vice versa and they just draw it out. And he had done this so many times that he talks about this is real. I know this to be true because I've experimented it and heard I can just thought share. And so, you know, it's like we have examples of this throughout recent history. But I definitely think if you go back to many native cultures. I mean, even the Vikings, the Druids, whoever. Like, none of this would be shocking. Right? They're not going to go try to prove this.

1:17:42This was a part and parcel of being human. And I think it still is. But to your point, it's just been buried by the noise that we've filled up our lives with. Yeah. Like, our feet aren't the same shape anymore because we don't walk barefoot. Mm -hmm. You know, our feet of atrophy and gotten withered and twisted and weak. And that's one of the reason why people wear barefoot shoes, right? Because they want to engage their toes. And if you don't, your foot atrophies, it becomes weird. It just makes sense that your mind or these abilities of consciousness would also atrophy because they're never used.

1:18:15Mm -hmm. Because it's so easy to communicate with words. And it's the, and also you're dealing with other people manipulating those words and trying to decipher whether or not this is true or not. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, you know energy, right? You did martial arts and stuff. So you understand, like if someone's energy, how can impact you? And I think that like most of us have some sense of like you walk into a room and someone just like, they're killing you or like if you're really, you know, I think energy is a real thing. Sure. But I think as far as like these gifts go or whatever, like telepathy, you know, we've all had that experience with someone's like, oh, I just knew the second they died.

1:18:52Like I felt it. Like I felt the ground in my apartment. And I have no idea. And then I got the phone call or or my aunt came to me in a dream last night and said, I love you. And I'm always here and whatever. And then like the next day they get the phone call they're aunt died. And there's so many stories like that we hear just in everyday life, right? Sure. So again, like it's just, if we sat back and really thought about this, this isn't wild. This is part of the human experience. Right. And the non -speakers are just the great skies. Yeah. It's really weird to look at it in reverse, though, for me, because like I said, I did think it was an emerging aspect.

1:19:26But now I think it's probably not. It's probably something that's been buried by our technology or our progress. Yeah. We think it's progress. It's easier to communicate with people with noises and saving. But we're probably missing this thing that used to be a part of us. And it comes in these little blips. Yeah. Little weird waves, especially heightened anxiety or heightened, you know, anytime you're stimulated in some sort of a way, which makes sense with psychedelic drugs, which dissolves the ego, you would have more of those. Right. This is... Right. So if you tried to expand your ability in any way, have you tried to meditate and try to find where that is inside your consciousness?

1:20:16In the beginning, I think when I was starting to go into this, I was meditating a lot and doing a lot of stuff. But right now I'm so focused on just getting the story out that it's like all my time is put on that. And I've kind of put my own stuff aside for a little bit here. But I mean, meditation, I think that's the number one way to help open up anything, mental, right? I mean, that's... And meditation like 23rd or 30 years ago was considered kind of fringe and out there, and the idea that it could benefit you. Science is looking into that. We're kind of like, oh, this guy is kind of... Yeah.

1:20:49And now it's... Those people were right. Yeah. So... The response has been insane. Like the telepathy tapes shot to the top of the charts. Like everybody was talking to me about it and sending it to me before I ever wanted to listen. Is that... It's got to be gratifying in some sort of way that like at least people were responding to this and they're very excited about it. Yeah, I think so. And I think... I mean, definitely it's gratifying. But, you know, the story behind that is pretty remarkable. And that's, I think, one of the things that was most gratifying. Because I had never intended to make a podcast.

1:21:23You know, I was trying to make a documentary of this. And then the documentary became so big that I was like, oh, maybe I have to make it as a documentary series. Like, pitched it to a bunch of, you know, streamers and stuff. And I think people loved it. And they were like, oh, this is such a good pitch. Oh, my gosh. But like, it doesn't fit our mandate. Like, what is it? It's not true crime. It's not... This is not that. And so, everywhere we pitched said, no, everywhere we pitched. And I remember coming home and feeling devastated. Because I thought this was the most important news in the world.

1:21:51How could anyone... Like, this needs to get out there and thinking, it's the end of the road. I can't afford to go do a documentary on my own. I can't do this and can't do that. And I was just like, you know, and... And I thought this could be a good podcast. But I never made one. So then it was sort of like, this will be my final pitch. Like, hopefully someone will notice. And then we can get the film funded. And so I made the podcast as just like a desperate, like, Hail Mary. Like, someone listened to this. Please, and fun documentary. And then it, like, went crazy. And it was... What was so funny too is when I first started telling a lot of families and stuff about the podcast.

1:22:23They were like, I don't know. Always, that's a great idea because just following it. So you have to see it to believe it to know that they're really not touched and that they're really communicating and to let with you have to see to believe. Like, none of this will work as a podcast. And it was just that lightning bolt again, you know. Like, no, no, no. This is it. This is it. Like, I just know. It was going to be great. And they were like, you know, and so the fact that it did what it did is just humbling. And I think so well deserved for the non -speakers. And those parents and teachers were brave enough, right, to tell their stories finally.

1:22:53Yeah, I'm glad you decided to follow that instinct. Because the podcast is the perfect way to do it because podcasts are easily shareable. Yeah. So that's how things really get out there. Someone tells you about it. You tell other people about it. You go on a podcast. Tell people about your podcast and that's what starts it. Yeah, I mean, so, and I think the medium too is so I never realized what a special medium it is. Because you're talking directly into someone's ears. Yeah. And you're just in their mind. Like, and just can talk to them for a few hours. And this was a story that we needed some real long.

1:23:26Yes. You know, exploration. Also, it's fascinating. And that's what you really want out of a podcast other than humor. You want it to be fascinating. Yeah. You want it to lock in and excite you. Yeah. And that certainly does that. And I think most people want to believe, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And I would not have put my time and effort and money into this if it wasn't real. I mean, it is, it is real. And people don't have to take my word for it. Like, they could just go start working with a speller. And again, not all spellers, I think, maybe, I don't know, who knows. But I think these are gifts are pretty easy to see if you start engaging with them.

1:24:08Yeah. Well, it certainly seems like it. So, what, so has the film started? Have you, where are you at right now? So, we, our first day filming was yesterday, which is really exciting. Congratulations. Yeah. Yeah. And so, we, yeah, we're off to the races. We have five non -speaking members of our production team, which is awesome. Oh, wow. So cool. Like, two are specializing in, like, working on graphics and depicting what things that they talk about look like, like, the chat on the hill. I don't know if you've heard of this telepathic chat room where non -speakers hang out. We can come back to that.

1:24:44Okay. And, like, the realms where maybe they get information. So, or just even what it means to see auras or to see stuff like that. So, we have two graphics kind of advisors that will be working with the graphics house on that stuff. We have a scientific advisor who's going to help us figure out how to best do the telepaths with the scientists that we'll be working with, and then two story kind of consultants. So, it's really cool to, all five of these individual jewels, I believe, it's the first paying job they've ever had. So, that's kind, it's just cool having them on our team. So, what is this chat on the hill?

1:25:17Okay. So, that was one of the harder things to get my head around. When I first met Katie and Houston. Katie said, you know, Houston talks about this telepathic chat room where he can go hang out with his friends. He can kind of tune into this telepathic chat room. And that, and he teaches there too, and it's a place where they can commune and talk and encourage it. He teaches in the telepathic chat room. Yeah. Houston's, like, really special. He really is, and he's, and I think there are different roles that this person might talk about, plant energy, and this person might talk about this. And I've heard this now from, well, let's just back up.

1:25:56How many people are in this telepathic chat room? Well, I don't know, but I'll get to that answer. Let me just, so, because I think that's an interesting thing. So, Houston started talking about this, what he calls the talk on the hill, which is this telepathic chat room, and then I met his good friend, John Paul, who's also kind of based in Atlanta, and John Paul would go up to his room and put four pillows on his head, and his mom was like, he's on the hill. And this is what he does to kind of get everything out, all the sounds of the house, so we can really concentrate and get there. And, you know, she said he really has, like, developed a beautiful relationship with his girlfriend on the hill.

1:26:35And I'm like, what? So, I didn't know what to make of it, only I knew that it felt very real to these parents, and these individuals, and people were talking about it in Atlanta. So, I thought, okay, this might be an Atlanta thing, that these individuals are doing this. They don't have to be in the same room, the same zip code, that they can, like, connect. And on the day I met John Paul, he was on the hill at one point. And I asked that question. I said, how many people are in the hill right now? And I think he wrote, like, four thousand something. And I was like, holy cow, it seems like a lot.

1:27:03He's like, well, people are really excited about the documentary right now. So, everyone's tuning in to find out, like, what's happening with this. So, I was like, whoa, and then, and then I just, like, buried that in my heart. This is something that is real in Atlanta. And then I was talking to, like, the next big, whoa. Again, telepathy tapes was not out yet. I met a minister in Arizona who had, like, the largest youth, like, special needs youth ministry or something. And I was on Zoom with him, because he was, like, found out about the telepathy and found out about these gifts. And there was a person in his congregation who could predict the future and see things happening in other spaces in the world.

1:27:39And he was just, you know, I think we were connecting to be like, okay, yeah, you've seen this? Okay, let's talk about this. And he was kind of going through his list of what he's witnessed with the individuals in his ministry. And one of the things he said to me was, I was on Zoom the other day with another young individual, another individual from Minnesota, getting these two to connect. And they start talking about something called the hill. They go to this place called the hill. Have you ever heard about this? And I almost fell out of my chair. And then maybe like a few months after that, I was talking to a teacher.

1:28:10And she goes, you know, some of my students, have you ever heard about this? They talk about going to some place called the hill. And one of them talks, says he goes there to learn about time travel. And the other one likes to talk about someone from Norway who talks about the bees and beekeeping and beach stuff. And at that point, I mean, my head is exploding. Just like, wait, it's like real? Like, jeez, you know? And then there's a father in Israel who I have talked to a lot about this over the years. And he's kept a really good track too of like, how tall up it has been buried in the spelling community and in the education community.

1:28:47And what's been going on and how teachers are being fired. So he's fascinating. But one of the things he told me, he's like, oh, yeah, we have a separate hill in Israel where a lot of the orthodox like Jewish folks go. And they have their own hill. And then I, and then I would get some emails and be like, you know, there's also a hill in Arizona and Florida. Like, there's different hills. So it's, it's a mystery. It's a magical mystery. But they all call it the same thing. Yeah. And, and I don't, and then I've also met like after the celebrity tapes came out. One family wrote me and said, hey, my son has that he has telepathy.

1:29:17No doubt there. But he can only do it with people in the room. But he's never been to the hill. How does he get to the hill? And I thought, I don't know. I guess ask another non -speaker who maybe can teach you how to like dial into the right frequency. You know, I'm not exactly sure how that works. But it, I, it's really, it's, it's awesome. You know. Now, is there one hill or is there many hills? I think there's a few hills. And have they verified that people who are communicating in this hill are actually communicating with these individuals? Yeah. And, in effect, that's one of the storylines in the film that I'm really excited about.

1:29:55Like one of the subjects is a young girl who's always felt pretty isolated. You know, it's hard sometimes to make friends if you're not able to communicate school or whatever. So, but she was bringing up names and has brought up names that her mom was like, you know, you know, they're not in her school. They're not in our periphery. They're not in any of our social stuff. And then once the telepathy tapes came out, these Facebook groups sprang up of families that were kind of going through the stuff. And in that process she found, I think like four of these individuals that her daughter was saying she was really good friends with on the hill.

1:30:27And they also say they go to the hill. Yeah. Yeah. And so we've like corroborated all these points in this girl's life. Have you tried to corroborate actual distribution of information, actual communication? Yeah. And you've done that? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's of course like you have to imagine for everyone in this world, all the families that I'm close to in teachers and therapists and stuff. It's still remarkable. So anytime someone says something, we will try to validate it. Like this person just said they saw this person on the hill. Can you verify it? Validate they were there. And then, oh my gosh, yes.

1:31:03What did they talk about? This was said. Hey, this person says that person is on the hill and talking about blank. Oh yeah, I can verify that that person teaches about that on the hill. So like it's not like anyone is taking any of this just in stride. Like where you just, you know, I think there's still that human nature. Like you're talking about that like even the parents and teachers and me and the people in the front lines of this are still always trying to validate it. Like this happened. Was that true? Did you get that same thing? And then there's that moment of like, oh my god. Like that's happening with all of us all the time too.

1:31:33That mind blowing. Wow, that just, you know, bore out. It's remarkable. That the hill thing is next level. It's next level. And why is it the hill? Why do they call it the hill universally? Well, Houston named it the chat on the hill. He named it. No. Well, the other kids name it. I think they're all saying it as well though, right? They're all saying the same term. Yeah. But I mean, just like, you know, someone named this cup and we're all calling it cup, right? I think like it just spreads. So you think that child Houston, he named it. And then everybody else accepted that name. Yeah. He didn't hear it from someone else?

1:32:09I mean, he might have. I mean. That's the question. Like, what is the name? Like, why on the hill? Well, I've asked people that. And one individual is like, it just feels more like a hill of thoughts. Like, just like, a mound of just like thoughts and energy and like, being. And so. I wonder what they're seeing. Well, we're working on that for the film. That's like why we have these two graphics non -speaker advisors. So they can work to make us understand what it looks like to them. Oh. And then once actually once the 12 of the tapes was done, I started releasing something called the talk tracks where we, like, keep going with answering some of the questions.

1:32:44And one of them was this a young man who reached out after episode two. And he's like, I want to help a volunteer for you. And I was like, go work with some non -speakers. That's going to be the best thing in the world. And he witnessed the telepathy right away. He witnessed a few other things. And he ends up in the first talk tracks episode getting to the hill. And his story is really beautiful as to how as a neurotypical man, he was able to do that. But people need to listen to it because it's really cool. So he figured out how to get to the hill. Mm -hmm. Yeah. And what is he described as? Well, he said it's divinely protected.

1:33:19That there seems to be. Divinely. Mm -hmm. There seems to be like some sort of guide there that like you can't just go in. Like Haliburton can't go rip it off, you know? Like there's like, like it seems to be guarded. And that only people with good intentions can go. And I think, I mean, I hope people don't try to start going there. I really, really don't. Oh, they're not. The non spin -off. And it's like one of the pains actually for me is like, oh, and putting this out there. Like, but I do think the non -speakers are in charge there. It's their space. It's a beautiful space. And I don't think anyone can just get let in.

1:33:53You have to really be. Open. Open, but not just, but have a good, good intention. Right. Completely pure. Pureness and love are a big part of this. And this person who's typical, regular person, got in there. Mm -hmm. Have they had any experience in the past with any form of telepathy before this? Well, the reason his story is so beautiful. So again, he's an episode one of the talk tracks. And what happened is he had, he was diagnosed with a really rare, like autoimmune disease and then like stage four cancer. And he kind of realized like, I need to save my life. I'm going to die if I don't learn to like think, control my thoughts.

1:34:33And he was able to cure himself. And he sent me scans and the cancer's almost all gone. But I think that that attention to thought and how thought can change your world and dictate what happens in your world really did something in his brain that allowed him to live in that mental space. Mm -hmm. And I think that helped him. I think that really helped him get to the hill. I mean, he talks about more of how he got there. And it took a few times. And for him, it was all audible. It felt like static and certain voices. But then he said he did a few tests. Like there was one of the students he works with.

1:35:10He's like, I knew exactly who it was. And I could hear their voice. I just knew it was their voice. Even though I've never heard their voice. But I just knew it was their energy. I just knew it was them. And he's like, so I gave a test. And I said, I'm going to tell you this person's name and this person's name and this person's name. And you know, gave them kind of a bunch of information. And I said, when I see you next, you need to tell me this stuff. And then when he saw that person next, they wrote it. They spelled it out for him. Whoa. Yeah. Yeah. So I do think the people experimenting with this have their own deep desire to get it right and try to validate stuff, you know?

1:35:44It's hard just to take on face value. How do you know if it's real or if it's in your own mind? Right. But the weird thing is like if this does, I mean, I'm sure you've opened up a lot of people's minds to this. And again, if this expands and then we all agree that this is a thing and that this is a possible thing. And then people start trying to figure out what it is and develop methods to try to tap into that. But this could be a profound change in just society as a whole. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the thing I hear the most, right, is people afraid of their thoughts being out there. But what's kind of cool?

1:36:29What's going on your head that you're so worried about? Exactly. Well, that's how about cleaning your brain out? Exactly. Clean your brain out. You're not going to be afraid of that, right? Yeah. What's going on your head that you don't want everybody to know? Totally. What are your terrible thoughts? It's interesting. Because when people say that, I do, because we all have certain stuff that like, who cares if someone knows that what all happens to us, right? Like you're worried about having something in your teeth or something or accidentally like pass gas and whatever. Like, I mean, that type of stuff, I think, who cares?

1:36:58That's just being human, right? But when people are that terrified, it's like, what the hell is going on with you? Yeah, I think it's the concept of it too. And also the concept, I think there's a thought that if someone can read your mind that you're more vulnerable, that you can't protect yourself. Like, you know, like, if you like all this person's creepy, let me get away from them. Oh, you think I'm creepy. You know, like that kind of thing. Yeah. Like that you won't be able to just like avoid people. I do think you have some control over it, though. And again, I can only go off of what I've heard from others.

1:37:29But like, one of the teachers who's been just, she's been such an advocate and fighter in this world for years trying to point to this. And she said the first experience she ever had around, maybe not the first. But one of the most cementing experiences was she was going to go visit a former student class and the night before, this is wild. The night before she went out and picked like Swedish fish and, you know, some doughnuts and, you know, I forgot what else, pretzels or something. And so she comes in to give him his favorite snacks and forgot them in the car. But she went and she sat with him and talked with him.

1:38:01And right before she was leaving the classroom, he took out a pen and drew like a doughnut, a fish, you know, and kind of drew the things that she, and she'd like rattled her to her core. Like she knew what she was thinking the night before. And now that he's, you know, graduated, she still works with him, just as an volunteer basis for the sheer joy of just being with him. And she asked him years later, how did you do that? And he, like, were you remote viewing through me? And how did you know at that moment? And he's like, well, once you were thinking of me, that was like my invitation to come in.

1:38:36Like I won't just crash into someone's thoughts. It's like, I have to be kind of invited and by like, you know, like the thought. So I do think that there's a way to kind of control it. And I know that the teacher that was having the student jump into her brain a lot, the younger man, she said, like, you need to stop that. Like, if I will invite you in when I want you, but you can't just come into my mind whenever that's not appropriate, you know? And so I think every individual is an individual, right? I mean, how this stuff works and is probably different for each person. But I don't necessarily think, you know, what many spellers have told me is like, good, good energy allows them to swap thoughts.

1:39:18Like, good juju allows them to do that, being invited in, being open to it. It doesn't feel like they can just go into like, you know, the person running for sentence thoughts and be like, ah, actually, you didn't fund them. You know, right. The problem is, like, what if people get really good at that? Like, what if it expands? And then people are just entering into your thoughts all the time. I think technologically that's going to happen anyway. Yeah. You know, it's one of the things that Elon has said about this neural link device that they're enabling said you're going to be able to talk with that words.

1:39:53Yeah. Yeah. But here's a thing too, right? It's like, again, I think most, almost every non -speaker I've met, their concern is love, unity, right? And so if your thoughts are other people and your thoughts are loving and about unity, it's not scary then for other people to be reading your thoughts. You're going to be caring about other people, hopefully. The real thought, the real scary thing is that there are a lot of people out there in this world that do not have thoughts of love and unity. They're damaged, hurtful, evil people. And they want to destroy everything around them. And that those people could acquire this ability.

1:40:28But would they be able to? I don't know. This is the thing. So has there been any evidence that evil people have been able to acquire this ability? I would say what I have found, and even talking to scientists about this, that the baseline for this is love. There's a wonderful neuroscientist named Julia Mossbridge and she has studied precognition and one of the things she does in these precognition tests is being like, how much unconditional love do you feel for yourself for other people? For the device you're taking this test on? Yeah. And the more people feel love, the better they do. And one of the things that I've heard from so many non -speakers with disabilities that the baseline is love.

1:41:04That love, love, love is like the thing that unlocks this stuff. What do they describe love as? Anything that unifies. The eye for that over and over again. What's love? Anything that unifies. Da, wow. Huh. Isn't that the best description of love ever? It is. It's a really good description. And that was, yeah, very specific. Anything that unifies. So it's almost like they're tapping into some laws of the universe or laws of reality. That we kind of know by trial and error. Yeah. But we don't, we don't, I mean, all you need is love. You know, this is always, love is a ubiquitous concept. It's like something that everybody always agrees is very important to life and happiness.

1:42:02Yeah. But we don't necessarily practice that culturally or as a society. Yeah. I mean, but you go back to all the religious teachers and thoughts, right? So much of it's about love and unity and we're all one and you might not realize this, but we're all one. And you know, it's been interesting, like, there's a big question mark right now on how, how to do these tests and how to prove it. And when I brought that up to a few non -speakers, one of the questions is like, why do you need to prove this with instruments? Like the biggest spiritual gift, the most fascinating one is love. That will cause someone to jump into choppy waters and save someone and risk their own life.

1:42:36It's had mothers like have so much adrenaline, they could lift up a car and save their baby. Like love is the superpower. Right. And it's like, that's, it's just, it's true. And they're like, why aren't you trying to measure love? And it's like, okay, good point. But still, people want to measure telepathy. And then there rings up the question. I was like, okay, well, is it best to do it like in a lab situation that can be really stressful, that can be filled with a lot of skeptical people and throwing that energy at you? Or is it better just to go into your environment, take off the lab coat, learn to spell, go check this out.

1:43:07And you think of like really good scientists like Jane Goodall, who, who when she wanted to understand like a culture of, you know, how the chimps were working, she didn't bring them into her lab. She went and like, lived in the jungle for months. You know, or you want to go look at the lightning bugs that light up in unison in Vietnam. I don't know if that's going to work out for you. If you bring them back to Berkeley and put them in a building, you probably have to go sit in the jungle and wait for them to light up in unison. So it's like, is it smart to be trying to test the stuff in our way in our labs?

1:43:40Or is it better to be like, I want to go chill out with you in your living room and see how this works? Right. The reason why to test it with instruments is for skeptics. Right. So once we've all agreed that this is an actual phenomenon. This is a real thing. Whatever this is, this is real. The best way to test it is really with consciousness. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I think about this a lot, like the skeptics. Because again, like I've said, the families and teachers, the people who... The people are like, let's just move the science forward. We know what's happening. Now we know how, not why, right?

1:44:11And I've thought about like how skeptics can hold back that research and science. And like, how much time do you give to them versus like, just move on without them? And I was thinking about in the term of like, in the olden days, right? Like, a voyager was going out into discover new worlds. And people, you can't go find something that were at this flat and you're going to fall off of it. Or out there is the blood of the blood. And someone comes back and it's like discovered Iceland. It's like, oh my gosh, you would not believe it. Like, geysers are coming out of the earth. And there's black stone beaches and black sand beaches and northern light.

1:44:42You know, whatever they're explaining. And they come back and some people are like, wow, let's go explore it and find out more. And you know, draw things of it. And some people might be like, don't go with them. Don't go. Don't even try it. They're making it up. It's not real. That couldn't exist. You're going to die if you go. And I feel like the scientists, they're the skeptics now. Those people on the shore being like, there is no Iceland. Don't go look. And you're going to be like, and it's like that's such a, it's such a, um, a weight to, to, to forwarding thought and research. And there's such a cool, exciting new frontier.

1:45:14Yes. And, um, Well, the thing is, is like, there's levels of skeptics. There's people that are just objective and they're like, I need data. I need to see something. And then there's people that it doesn't matter what they see. They're never going to believe. Right. And those are the weird ones. Because there's a lot of people out there that are self -professed skeptics. Yeah. Those are the ones that are the problem. Yeah. Like they call themselves skeptics. Right. Okay. Right. Well, how about just be objective? Right. Well, don't just be skeptical. Right. Because if you're completely skeptical and you're always looking for a negative, you're, you know, you're going to be biased by your own preconceived notions.

1:45:51Right. I mean, if you're, if you're only skeptical, you're a closed -minded believer. So you are. You're not open -minded. You're as dogmatic as like. Right. As the next person who just believes their beliefs and won't look any further, this is it. Right. That's not skeptical. Well, that's atheists. Right. And a lot of, for a lot of. Yeah. Well, I mean, there's different kinds of atheists too. There's some that I would just, I'd say they're self -professed atheists, but they're really more agnostic than anything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I would say, I mean, I would say I'm skeptical. Every time I hear something, you're like, can I be?

1:46:25Right. Like, we got to go test this. I don't know. We got to find, okay, we got to test it four or five more times. But like, be an open -minded skeptic. I think that's the only way you get to isolate. That's just objective. Right. Like, because you hear about something completely novel. And you're like, okay, what is it? What is that? Is this bullshit? Because you know bullshit. Bullshit's real. It's a real thing. Like, that's why skeptics are important. Or at least being skeptical is important. There are people that tell you, if you join my cult, you will experience bliss and happiness. Totally true.

1:46:54We all give up our money to the guru. And he has sex with all of us, but it's great. Like, what? Right. Totally. So skepticism is important. Yes. It is important. It keeps you from getting hoodwinked. It does. I mean, yes. Open mind is skeptical. Right. But this is the problem with not having the ability to read minds, right? Is that people can deceive you. And you can't really tell. And some people are terrible at it for some reason. Like, some people just fall in line with the wrong crowd over and over and over again. And they never get it right. Yeah. Yeah, that's so true. So you have to be skeptical.

1:47:26Yeah. Or you have to be able to read people. Yeah. And what is reading people, though, right? Like, there's people that I've met that, like, right away, I'm like, this person's broken. I gotta get the fuck away from them. There's a famous story that, with my friend Brian, Brian Callan, who's a hilarious comedian, who always has the worst friends, always. And one time he showed up at this show that we were doing together with this gal that he was dating. And I met her for five seconds. And he'd always had the worst girlfriends. They're always just disasters. I go get rid of this one. Please. I go, trust me.

1:48:01You got to move away. He's like, what are you talking about? I go, dude, she's crazy. This one's broken. And he's like, no, no, no. I go, dude, I am telling you right now. Turn it out. She was a meth head. He didn't know. She wound up being a prostitute. It was off the charts. But she was pretty. And he just thought she was friendly to him. And so she was fine. And I read her right away. I'm like, oh, everything's wrong here. And he's like, how did you do that? And I'm like, I don't know. I just knew right away. You gotta get away from her. Yeah. And he eventually one day ran into her after they had broken up.

1:48:33She was street walking. What? Yeah. Like that crazy. Yeah. Poor thing. Poor thing. Yeah. But it was like, I was like, that one's gonna drag it down. Like, get out of there. Yeah. But I knew. I don't know how I knew. Yeah. I mean, it was a simple exchange. Like, hi. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too. Like, fuck's going on here. It was like all my spidey senses were going off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not normal. That's not normal. That's not every day. It's not everybody to meet. Like, some people I meet are like, something's on. Right. Something about the end. You have to be able to go on some kind of instinct.

1:49:10We all know. And a lot of his sort of pattern recognition. Yeah. A lot of his prior experiences with similar, the way similar people engage with you. Right. And you're like, oh, I've seen this before. Yes. Like, this is a con man. Oh, I've seen this before. This is a this. And this is a that. Yes. But sometimes, sometimes it's just like, this is a bad person. Yes. But this one's broken. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So, yes, I think having some degree of skepticism can be good. Yeah. But emotional intelligence can be good. Objectivity. Yeah. Objectivity. To recognize that people that are deceptive are real.

1:49:49Mm -hmm. And there's people that have ulterior motives. And these ulterior motives, you might not understand. Mm -hmm. You've got to be able to throw everything through a filter. And unfortunately, until we can read minds, you're kind of going on these like, did you hear that? I think I heard something. You know, that's really what it's like. Like, when you meet a person, so you're something. Yeah. I don't know. Are you being paranoid? I don't know. Yeah. Right. And then you can convince yourself that you are being paranoid. When you actually, you're not. You're actually accurate. Yeah. And you're like, oh, you're being silly.

1:50:23Yeah. You're not being silly. Right. You should have followed your initial instincts. Right. Exactly. And I think that's what has happened with like materialism being such a for years is that anyone who believed in anything would be made to feel silly, right? Oh, you're so gullible. Right. You're not smart. Like intellectual people certainly don't believe in ghosts or God or whatever. You know, put anything in there that you can't measure. Yeah. Exactly. The secret. And so that's been effective. No one wants to be ridiculed in this mist and made it feel silly. I mean, even editing the podcast, like, I was so certain.

1:50:59I'm like, okay, episodes one through four, there's a lot of science. This is great. The one that took me weeks, like, I was in turmoil over was having to like put out into the world that like the teachers were hearing to let me back. Because I'm like, no one's going to believe this. It's just so hard. But it's like, you can't censor it. It's what people's experiences and the whole point was like put out the voices of people who have been completely dismissed and ignored. And also, if love is unifying, the love of a teacher and a student is absolutely real. Yeah. Again, it's a special bond, especially really good teachers.

1:51:30Oh, my gosh. Really good educators have like this spec because they really genuinely just want to help. Yeah. And when someone's a genuine and you're a child that's vulnerable and confused by the world around you and you're nonverbal, and there's someone with genuine love for you. Yeah. Like, it kind of makes sense that those would be the people that bridge the gap. It was interesting because I saw my best friend for college this morning and her husband was there and he was like, why is there so many women in the podcast that have to let the evil? Can dads do it? And whatever. And I was like, in fact, the first person Dr.

1:52:00Powell tested to just help me the test with. This girl was adopted and she had the best telepathic bond with her father. You know, and I know a young man in Israel who's best telepathic bond is with his father. And another, you know, so yes, it does happen with dads. But I think there's more women who go into teaching and more women that do caregiving. Right. And so that's probably why it looks like more women. But I don't think it's like a gender, gendered thing that mostly women have this. You know, I think it's whoever is in that like loving open. Yeah. I think men are generally more inclined towards brutish thinking, you know, and ego and like silly ways of viewing the world.

1:52:40And then also preoccupied by their status and life and what that means to, you know, them and their worth as an individual and all that stuff is a massive impediment to any sort of like real love because you're just so self -focused. Yeah. That's very. Yeah. And that's definitely a male trait, especially in this capitalism society, where you're constantly trying to achieve a higher level of status. Yeah. And no one's satisfied, including billionaires. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Yeah, that's just the nuttiest thing of all time. I know. It's like, what is the point? You won the game. I know. Spread it out, man.

1:53:18It came over. You should, like, you have a crazy opportunity with all this money. To help so many people and lift up like all of America on the name. Also, why are you still just chasing numbers? Right. You know, ledger. Because that's what you're doing. Yeah. You've got lost in this weird game. I actually cannot comprehend that. I cannot comprehend. I wonder if you could if you were super wealthy. Maybe. And if you went down that path, the thing is that one thing would be if you're super wealthy by some divine intervention or someone just gives you money. Right. You know, like some crazy billionaire who's like a telepathy tapes fan, they're dying.

1:53:57And on their will, they say, listen, Kai, you seem cool. I'm going to give you two billion dollars. Like, what are you going to do with it? Yeah. It's different. But if you went and tried to earn it. And so your whole life, you were focused on these achievements. Like, I want to have this and that. And I want to have, I want to be able, I want to be important. I want to be able to influence political parties. And I want to be able to fly in my private jet. No, no, I want an island. You know, you get crazy. Yeah. And then you're never you never have enough. Right. You don't want more and more. Yeah.

1:54:29And then you're around people. Like, we were talking the other day. Also, my friend Brian has a friend who's worth like three billion dollars. And he feels poor because he hangs out with these guys that are worth 50 billion dollars. And I'm like, that's so crazy. But that's the world that you live in when you're only thinking about numbers on a ledger. You've you've gotten caught playing a game. Right. You're you're playing poker. You have chips. You know, you're you're just all just quantifiable numbers. Well, none of it matters too. So who cares? Also, here's the real number. You got a hundred years.

1:55:02Right. If you're lucky. Right. That's the real number. Yeah. And if you're 60 and you're fucking right. Yeah. You're almost at the end, buddy. Right. Like, what are you doing? Well, and I just I always think about like the impact you're going to leave behind. Like, what's your legacy? Like, you had a big boat. I mean, who cares about that? Right. What does that mean? You know, are you going to be the person? Well, he died. He had so many things. I aspire to be like, will you? Right. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of people that are like that. And they think about old dead rich people being boy, he really nailed it.

1:55:32He killed the game. You know, and that's you know, that's the thing that they have focused on. Unfortunately, this is the problem with financial institutions because they're like, if all you're doing is trying to acquire more money, well, that's your game. And your game is just do that. And then as you get bigger, you eventually reach a point where like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. You kind of control everything. Like, you control natural resources. You control land. Yeah. You control building, you housing, transportation. Yeah. You have everything. This is not good for everybody else. It's not good for everybody else for one entity to have so much power and only be concentrating on numbers.

1:56:11Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know where that comes from. I mean, I guess if you grow up really rich, maybe that's it or maybe if you grew up without anything. It's a competition. It's a subversion of what it's initially supposed to be. It's like when you put mandates on officers achieving a certain amount of arrests in the month. Or even arrests in general, right, or prosecutors, right? What is a prosecutor's goal to win? Right. There's the competition. Yeah. The competition is I provide evidence that this person is guilty, the defense provides evidence that he is in fact innocent. Yeah. And we sort it out.

1:56:50And if you're just trying to win the game, well, then you're a corrupt prosecutor because then you withhold evidence that might exonerate that person. Or you don't allow DNA or you don't. Yeah. And there's a lot of that. I mean, I work with a guy named Josh Dubin who's a friend of mine whose his whole thing is freeing people that are unjustly accused. I love that. And he's just because of this podcast, a bunch of people are free right now. Wow. And the shocking stories that you hear about corrupt prosecutors where these guys get caught and it turns out there's hundreds of people rotting away in a cage that are innocent because of this one corrupt person.

1:57:30And because they played this game of just trying to win. And this is the same game. It's the same game of acquiring numbers, whatever you're trying to do. That is what your game is. Yeah. Your game is just numbers. I mean, it just makes me wonder if like people believe there was more, right? Like if it wasn't just like you've got this one shot and you're just gonna hear and like tackle numbers and be super rich and whatever. Like would making a difference and make it because it does feel like, yeah, oh, Pollyanna, like we're gonna just, you know, yeah, love each other. But like, but if you really believe that there was something more, right?

1:58:05That like you had a higher purpose here that you were more than just your body. Yeah. I mean, I think if you believe that to some degree, you're gonna act differently. Yes. You're more focused on difference than acquiring numbers of money. Yeah. It's just hard to get through people that are completely lost and obsessed. Yeah. You know, when someone is completely, like say a gambling addict, for instance, they're very hard to get to. Yeah. Because they're completely lost and obsessed with this thing that they become addicted to, which is all numbers. Right. Gambling is just all thrills and wins and loses and numbers.

1:58:40Yeah. It's all just, I bet 100 ,000 on the game and I'm like, okay, if I think I got five points on the spread, to cover this spread, then I win and then I'm out of the hole. And then it's this roller coaster ride. And so it's very difficult to get to those people that are lost in whatever the game they're playing is, whether the game is gambling addiction or financial addiction, whatever it is. If you're lost in a game, it's very hard to get to those people, especially if they don't have love in their life. Right. And so if all their status is acquired by numbers, by achieving this and pulling up in the brand new Mercedes, and wearing the fine suit and having the expensive watch, or whatever it is that your thing is that you want to show up with.

1:59:21And there's, in this world, this, especially today, there's all the lures and trappings to pull you into that. And you can never get enough, you know. You can get hand -purchased, I mean, hand -created this and, you know, rare that in a limited edition that, oh, did you get the new one? Oh, and then, you know, you're lost. It's just, yeah, it just doesn't fill you up. I think it empties you up more really in the end. Right. But what it does do oddly is it promotes technological innovation. So keeping up with the Joneses and materialism, one purpose that it does serve oddly is this constant push towards newer and better.

2:00:04Which I think is also part of the purpose of human life in some sort of a strange way, is that we are pursuing technological innovation above and beyond everything. If you could see us objectively, if like you could see us outside of culture, outside of language, if you were an alien race and you're observing this weird species, like what does it do? Well, it keeps making better stuff. That's what it does. It keeps making better stuff. It puts all of its resources into making better stuff and it's obsessed with acquiring better stuff, even though it has a finite lifespan. It never recognizes, rarely.

2:00:42It's an odd and beautiful thing when someone recognizes they have a finite life. Yeah, yeah. I was just thinking about that, what you're saying, and I was thinking, God, then every four years the aliens would be like, oh, but then they pass a torture on the world and they go and they compete in games. And for like one small two week period, they're all playing these games against each other. And then they put the torture out and go home and put in battles around the game. Right, but that's a burden by numbers. Because the people that are playing the game, everybody wants to see them, they don't get any of the money.

2:01:15The money is all by these... The commercials and everything. Yeah, these networks. Networks in the organization where they profit in a tune of billions of dollars and literally pay zero to the athletes. Which is so gross. Another disgusting subversion of this whole thing. So the purity is in the athletes, especially if you're competing in a game that has no financial future. Now, if you're the world curling champion, whatever it is, you know, what are some goofy ass fucking Olympic spirit. Right. There's no... You're just trying to be the best of this thing. And I think like if you can achieve something that makes you feel really good about yourself, I think there is a worth in that to see the beautiful.

2:01:57Oh, yeah. And that's like where sports can come in, right? That like the underdog can win and you can work together and blah blah. Like that's worth stuff. I think that's like really beautifully create something that's beautiful. But yeah, just buying something is not cool. I mean, that's right. I mean, just what does it do? That's not cool. Like creating something is cool, achieving something is cool. It's also one of the weirdest attractions. Attractance about social media is what the stuff that people are showing you they have. You know, which is like, you can get a lot of followers by having great stuff.

2:02:29And like, look at my stuff. Look at my how. Look at my car. Look at my jet. And it's like the people are like, wow. And you see like millions and millions of likes on these videos. It's really... Because kids, like they love the YouTube videos now. Like my son will watch like Hot Wheels. Like people being like, this new Hot Wheels goes, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude. And then he want to make these Hot Wheels things. And I'm like, what is happening right now that you're like basically doing an ad for Hot Wheels, you know? Right, right. And it's just... Like I would have never wanted to watch kids unbox Hot Wheels.

2:02:55Right. I mean, or Barbies or whatever. Like none of it, you know? Unboxing things are strange. Yeah. It's like techno porn. Yeah. You're watching someone do something. You wish you were doing it. Oh, I wish I knew that. Yeah. That's so weird. Yeah. But it's, you know, it's also very strange when you think about how many people are tuned into that where you never would have expected that in the past. Like there would never be a television show on NBC where someone unboxed this stuff. You'd be like, no one's going to watch that. But meanwhile, put it on YouTube and millions of people will watch that stuff.

2:03:27So there's a part of it that we didn't anticipate. Yeah. I don't know. I hope it will be a pendulum. Because when you brought up the television, I thought, well, that replaced the dance hall, right? People used to go dance and hang out before those television. Like you'd be out doing something. Right. How cool. Right. Or go out to the diner. It's like this benefits to all this ability to communicate as well. Yes. The problem is when it's centralized. Right. The real problem with television is that television has advertising, advertising limits, what you can say. Right. And because of that, you know, we censored language.

2:03:59Right. Because advertisers didn't want you swearing on television. So the way people talked in real life, they never talked on television. Yeah. And so that got subverted. True free expression got subverted by advertisement. Well, and that is what is cool about the world we're living right now. Right. Because like YouTube and Twitter, you know, whatever, Blue Sky, all the things, podcasts. I mean, people are free to kind of speak and talk. Not necessarily in Blue Sky. Maybe not. I bet I could get mad pretty quick, which is some simple scientific facts. But, you know, I mean, there is a democracy to information now where I think, like, stuff that could never have gotten out there 20, 30 years ago when the gatekeeping of, like you were saying, advertising and all that was so extreme, it's just changed.

2:04:46And that's awesome. Profoundly. Yeah. In a way that I don't think we even appreciate because we're a part of it. Right. I think it's one of those things. We've become accustomed to checking the news on your phone when you wake up in the morning and having a friend sending you things. Oh my God, you see this? And cool things too. Great music. Yeah. And so many things get, they get shared like your show. Yeah. Got shared to me. I don't remember who shared it to me because so many people did. Yeah. Because I don't remember who the first person was. Yeah. Well, and I think that's a thing that is cool, right?

2:05:16We actually have like evidence of what this like democratization of information looks like. Like the UIP phenomenon has become so much more mainstream. People are talking about it. Like things that could not have been shared or spoken or not out there. Same with psychedelics and psilocybin and, you know, going on ketamine trips or whatever. Like all that. Now it's just common knowledge that this can be great for healing PTSD or, you know, depression or whatever. The stuff with telepathy, you know. I mean, channeling whatever it is, like all these things, especially TikTok. You're like, oh, like how is this?

2:05:46So. I'm glad you brought the UIP thing up. I hate to interrupt you, but. Because I think a lot of what we're hearing is nonsense. Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of what is being shared, especially publicly. There's too many voices that I think are either intelligence assets or our disinformation experts that are doing it on purpose. And there's too much of, you know, the same feeling that I get, you know, I was like, oh, get out. Yeah. I have that feeling about the UAP thing. When I hear people talk, nothing seems real to me. Yeah. When I talk to people about it, there's not one. I mean, even when people tell me their own personal experiences, I believe them.

2:06:37It does not register as real. That's so interesting. Something registers as being nonsense. There's something. Maybe not nonsense, but maybe way weirder than what they're explaining it like. Like non -physical interaction. That they are reinterpreting as like physical interaction. Yeah. That there's some disconnect between their work. Like if someone tells me an experience, but they had like, here's a good example. My friend Steve told me a harrowing experience of them being attacked by a brown bear in Alaska. And when he tells you this story, first of all, I know it's real because I know multiple people who are there.

2:07:23They were all there. No one got hurt. It was very fortunate, but they got charged by a grizzly who ran through their tent. One of my friends was on its back for like ten yards. Oh. Like you literally plow through the people. And he wound up like riding its back for like ten yards before he fell off. Wow. Yeah. It was just like, I mean, it can cover ten yards in a second. And the whole thing was just insane chaos. And the way he describes how your reptilian brain completely takes out. The fear is so overwhelming and different than anything you've experienced before. I know it happened. And he's telling me this, I know it happened.

2:08:04When these people were telling me about talking to aliens and all of that, I'm not getting nothing out of them. I'm not getting nothing. I'm getting a flat piece of paper. Yeah. There's no fear. There's no charge. I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is. I just don't get anything from their story. I hear it. It's interesting. But I don't get anything that lights any bells. Yeah. There's no bulbs go off with me. Huh. I just sit there and go, wow. Okay. So what were you thinking? You know, I'm asking them questions, but I'm not getting nothing. Yeah. So that leaves me because I know that for sure the government has technology that they do not want the general public to be aware of for reasons of national security or whatever it is.

2:08:49Or, you know, money has been pushed through to finance things and they lie to Congress and they have to keep lying. Whatever the reason is, that's real. There's most certainly black ops programs that the general public is not aware of. That's always going to be the case. If you have those, what better way to hide them than in plain sight and with a bunch of people that are air -quote whistleblowers that go out and tell everybody about all these experiences. They're not of this earth and that's what I would do. Yeah. If I was the government and I wanted to be super sneaky, I would have a bunch of my like really clever agents go and whistleblow.

2:09:29Tell some stories. Talk about people that have been abducted. Talk about all these different things. Yeah. And then on top of that, there's real experiences. So I think there is something because it exists throughout history, just like telepathy exists throughout history and ghosts exist throughout history. And religion exists throughout. There's something there. Yeah. There's something there that's distorted by our very slippery grasp on truth. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I think that's a very true assessment. Yeah. Yeah. There's also just too many stories from hundreds of years ago that are incredibly similar to the things that people are talking about today.

2:10:09Yeah. That's the stuff that's interesting. Yeah. Like Jacques Vallet. Exactly. I just finished his third book. Yeah. That's the mind. Yeah. But he's great because he's not a believer.

2:10:24Yeah. Yeah. He highlights a lot of the bullshit to the point where you're like, okay, what's true? Yeah. I mean, those are the people who have to trust though. I think. Yeah. The only ones you can trust. Yeah. Because there's too many people that are out there telling you, I know what's happening. We are about to experience contact. Yeah. The all the people, the joint chiefs of staff have been notified. And like, those people, I don't want to talk to. No. Like, you shut the fuck up. You don't know anything. There's no way you know. Right. You're just taking advantage of this very weird moment in time where people aren't sure.

2:10:57But there's all this discussion of this phenomenon and you've grifted yourself to this. Right. Exactly. There's a lot of those people out there. Yeah. And it's clickbait and it's their profit. Because they're gross. No. But the true intellectual people is looking at the consciousness side of this. I think fascinating. That's what's like, what's going on here. I think that's where it is. Yeah. It's a conscious. I mean, that's why, you know, I wasn't into the UAP stuff until people started saying to me. Like, you should at least start looking at some of these great thinkers. Because a lot of the system is consciousness.

2:11:25And what are we? And why are we here? And like, what's a hyper object? Like, a lot of stuff that I'm like, what is going on? So you start reading about it and understanding, okay. Like, where things might converge is an exploration of consciousness. Yeah. And our consciousness is confined by identity. It's confined by so many different things. Right. So many walls that we put up and ego and blinders and self -delusions. There's always just weird things that we have in our mind. Because we don't necessarily have a very good direction book of how to be a human. Right. Or what we're just limited to by our vision, right?

2:12:06Like, if you were to talk to a dog and be like, hey, does this dog know about calculus? And does it know about like, whatever, electoral college? Of course not. Like, there's no way there's no universe in which a dog would know about that stuff. But it could smell a cat for blocks away. You ever see a cat dog just like this? No. And they, you know, they haven't seen noses. They could, they could smell individual ingredients in a hamburger. That's so fascinating. And a bear is like ten times stronger than that, which is bananas. That's amazing. They can smell human beings hundreds of yards away.

2:12:40Right. Just a whiff of the wind and also like, oh, people, let's get the fuck out of here. Well, and that's like, we don't have that. But like a dog doesn't have XYZ. What are we living it? We might not be able to see half of what's there or a conceivable bit. So wave your hand above an earthworm. There's no idea what's going on. There's no idea what's going on. Yeah. It doesn't need to. It lives its life underground. Those senses are not necessary. Right. So that's the mystery, right? Yeah. And our senses most likely have atrophied. You know, that's the real thing is that, you know, there's a lot of talk from, you know, ancient...

2:13:13Whether it's ancient religious texts or of contact of something communicating with you that's not physically there. And you know, you got to wonder, like, was this really common for people? Like, there's so many descriptions of being contacted by something that's not there. Like, what was that before language normal? Yeah. And was it physically someone contacted you or was it in a mental space, right? Like, were you in this thought world, like, almost you were astral traveling or whatever, right? I mean, that's the question, too, is... Or can you be experiencing something in your mind that's not happening physically?

2:13:54Right. And I think that question is, for the basis, in the UAP world, as well as in this, like, telepathy world. Right. It's the birds flying around in unison, like, somehow or another, they're tuned in to some... Some pattern that they never collide. How do they not collide? I mean, that's, like, so spectacular that you're literally hundreds of feet above the earth. If you collide, you get knocked on conscious, you're both dead. And no one collides ever. And they're going fast. I mean, imagine, like... Why would you do that? Like, what benefit, evolutionary benefit? What natural survival benefit would there be in a bunch of you flying around in weird patterns in the sky?

2:14:35Like, look at that. Here we go. That is so beautiful. I think I've heard this. They just look like a bigger thing. So it's... That's gonna be it, right? You look like a big monster. Yeah, they get it. Well, that doesn't scare off fish. They go right to it as a big thing. Well. That's the problem, you know, when tuned to see that big thing, they're like, fuck you. Look how crazy that is. I mean, it's so weird. But why would that be a benefit to, like, being a bigger thing? That would make you a bigger target. I don't... I mean, it's just... It's so weird. It's so weird. It's so weird. Like, no one's falling.

2:15:08No, no one's hitting the other side. I come to that colliding. I come to that falling. And doesn't it look like art? I mean, it really is, like, an elaborate dance. Have you ever seen wolves hunt? No. They communicate. We don't know what they're doing. We don't know how they do it. But they decide. Yeah, there's something. Because they flank animals. They know how to do it. Yeah. Like, they know to chase animals and do it into canyons. Yeah. And then they get on the other side of it. Yeah. And they capture them while they're trying to escape. It's still up at the... I mean, one of the teachers that I've come to love so much and she was also in England.

2:15:40She said that the first time she realized something like this was going on, she was working at a school where the individuals weren't speaking. And she saw people, like, a bunch of her class playing at recess. And she's like, it was a fully orchestrated game. Like, this one knew to go here. And this one knew to go here. And they were doing this. And she's like, but they weren't speaking. And I was watching this through the classroom window. And I thought they are communicating through to Lopathy. Because this is a huge organized game. And she watched over and over again. And then she thought in her head, like, I want to be in on this.

2:16:08I want you all to teach me. I want to get in on this. And then one of the boys started... She'd start hearing him in her head. Like, if he had fallen down outside, or couldn't find his lunch money, or, you know, something happened. A skinned is me. And she would hear him. And, like, would know where to go find him. And she was like, oh, my gosh. Like, he's this is starting to work. And then... Whoa. Yeah. And then, like, one of the students' mothers died. And she became... And the mother said to this teacher, I want you to really take care of my son. As he ages, he loves you. Like, he really respects you.

2:16:40And she's done that his whole life. And now, you know, he's a grown adult. And they still communicate. But she's like, now he communicates with me telepathically. I'll get these huge visual packages. And she's like... And sometimes, I think... First, did this come from me? And am I making this up? But it'll be, like, an update on someone from, you know, that they knew both 20 years ago. And she'll be like, that can't be that this guy's only a priest. He was so unreligious. Or whatever it would. There'll be something that makes no sense. And she'll go look it up on Facebook. And it proves to be true.

2:17:09So, you know, she'll constantly have to double check things. And she... Yeah. I mean, so it's remarkable. But I do not doubt that the wolves are probably using telepathy. Yeah, I think chimpanzees do it, too. I think they all have roles. And they know what role to play. And they just sort of, like, lock in on this task together. Mm -hmm. And somehow another communicate. Like, they lay in weight. Yeah. And they know when to wait. So weird. It's so cool. Yeah, it's so cool. I mean, imagine if one day we can figure out through technology to access minds of animals and see how an owl thinks. Like, see, like, what is the...

2:17:52What's the process in their mind when they lock on? What is a predator thing? What does a prey animal know when it's being watched? Yes. Yeah. Sometimes. There's been that... Troops me. I'm a hunter. They don't always know. They don't know at all. Sometimes they don't know at all. That's so... How far away are you when you're... Sometimes, like, 50, 60 yards. And they have no idea you're there. Wow. And they're... You know, but a lot of times they're distracted, too, because they're in the rut. So they're mating and they're distracted. Which is a rude way to hunt them. Yeah. That's how people hunt them.

2:18:30That's the worst way to hunt someone. I mean, not always. A lot of animals... You've got their music on. ...that are not in the rut. But, you know, like, white teal deer elk. Primarily, you hunt them when they're in the rut. Yeah. There's some animals, though, that are very, very difficult to hunt. And one of the reasons why is you don't hunt them when they're in the rut. Like, mule deer. Mule deer are the most clever and the most aware of all deer species, because they're constantly being pursued by mountain lions. Oh. So they're always like... Yeah, they're totally nervous. They're, like, always on edge.

2:19:03And they have an uncanny ability to get out of the way. They just... They know something's there. And then, like, fuck this. And they just bounce out. Yeah. Yeah. You've got to sneak up on them when the wind's blowing. You've got to, like... Like, people take their shoes off to creep up on them. So tactically. Yeah, well, you have to be. Yeah. Because you have to... Especially bow hunting. Yeah. So you have to get, ideally, you want to get inside of 60 yards. Yeah. That's really what you want. Especially a mule deer's not that big. An elk is a much larger target. Mm -hmm. But a mule deer is, you know, a big one's like 300 pounds.

2:19:34You've got to get pretty close. And they fucking know something's up. Yeah. They know something's up. Yeah. Sometimes you're staring at them and they're just like... You know, they're just tuned in. Yeah. There's also, I don't know if this is real or not. But there's a company called Hex. And they make these... They make clothes that block out your electrical signal. And one of the things... Like, it's very hard to discern whether or not it works with... Right. ...with mammals. But it seems to work really well with fish. So there's a lot of video evidence of these... People putting these Hex hoots on underneath their wet gear...

2:20:15...or their scuba gear. And then going in the water... ...and being able to get like right up close to fish... ...they don't even know what the fuck is going on. And they couldn't if they didn't have the suit on. This is their assertion. Okay. Now, obviously they're selling a product... Yeah. ...very controversial in the hunting world... ...whether or not these things are real. Some people 100 % believe in them. And there's a bunch of evidence that people wear them... ...and then they sit in a field in turkeys... ...like get right next to them. What? And turkeys have incredible vision. Turkeys have better vision than humans.

2:20:46Yeah. Huh. I'd like to know more about that. Yeah. But the really compelling stuff to me is the water stuff... ...because they do it in the water. And the idea is that prey animals... ...have this electrical... ...some sort of... ...signal that they're giving off. Yeah. ...that these animals can pick up. That's really interesting. I'd like to learn more about that. That's fascinating. Well, fish have a thing called a lateral line. You ever seen that line in a fish? Yeah. That lateral line is interpreting movement in the water. It's interpreting. So, yeah. Filmographer, he says it lets them get them closer to anything.

2:21:23Really? Yeah. We'll just show them different. So this is... What did you got? The problem is, obviously this is a commercial. Right. And the problem is, you know, these people believe it... ...and I don't know if they've done... ...like, how would you do a double blind study with this? Right. You know, would you... ...you're dealing with completely different fish... ...completely different time? You know, there's... What did that fish experience? Did that fish just experience a shark 30 minutes ago? What's going on? I don't know. You have to do a bunch of them, I think. You have to do it a lot.

2:21:54And I don't know if they've done that. Because I think they're just trying to sell this thing... Yeah. ...that may or may not work. And it's because it blocks out your magnetic field. Is that what this is? What is... ...what is their explanation for what it does? Has something to do with measuring that? Well, the human body is essentially an electrical system. Right. So it kind of makes sense that we would give off some sort of... ...of visual representation... ...or some senses that we don't understand... ...just as electromagnetic patterns or... ...some of that. Huh. Yeah. What is... Google Hex suit debunked.

2:22:30Oh. Google that. HEC suit... HECS suit debunked. I wonder if anybody's ever tried to debunk it... ...and say that's nonsense. Because I know a lot of people that don't think it's... ...that works and they don't want to wear them. But I know... ...my friend John Dudley, who's one of the best hunters in the world... ...he wears it every time he goes hunting. Really? Yeah. Fascinating. He thinks animals can't see him as well when he wears it. It's so interesting. I mean, if he believes it works, then that's like... ...you know, sometimes the... ...the act of faith is one point than the fact of it.

2:22:58Sometimes. Maybe. I don't know. No, I think the fact is more important. Because if you're doing both things. If you're doing everything correctly... ...but one thing does give you... ...like camouflage works. We know it works. Because there's something about the way animals see... ...they essentially see movement and line detection. So it's just see the frame of a human being clearly. If you're wearing black and you're standing there... ...and you're a bipedal thing, they're like... ...oh, fuck that. That's the person. Let's get out of here. But if your lines are completely broken up by camouflage...

2:23:32...and you stand still, they don't see you. They see nonsense. They see the woods. You know, you blend in. Yeah, yeah. That's why camouflage doesn't have to look like leaves and sticks. It can just look like patches of black and stripes and tiger stripes. Right, it makes sense. Yeah, it does. It does make sense. I mean, that's why animals in nature have that. Yeah. I was watching this thing where they were explaining... ...what animals see versus what we see. Why tigers would be so beautifully colored. Because the animals don't see that color for whatever reason. But they do see the lines. And the lines completely blur in with the grass...

2:24:10...because animals see in black and white. Right. ...or in a weird sort of shade. Interesting. Have you found anything about Hexhoot deeper? Just tons of anecdotal evidence for videos. People, though, a good point is like how did Fred Bear do it? How did he get so close to stuff? That's just their example. That old, you know, the original hunter. Right, those guys all wore like red flannel shirts... ...and they weren't doing odor blocking stuff. Yeah, that odor blocking shit doesn't work. Yeah, I have no real... ...no one did like a study and made a part. This is, by the way, if you have odor blocking...

2:24:41...the animals smell the odor blocking. And they're like, what the fuck? Right, yeah. Yeah, that was... Wow. That's stinking. Fucking weird smell. There's no way. We smell so bad. The animals, there's no way. They smell us like we smell a skunk. Yeah, that's so interesting. Yeah, you know, you get smell a skunk that gets killed... ...like five blocks away. That's how they smell us. They know we're in the neighborhood. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so I don't think that scent stuff does anything. I mean, maybe it blocks a little bit. So maybe it helps a little bit. Yeah. Maybe. I mean, you're looking for every little edge...

2:25:13...because you're essentially competing with the survival instincts... ...of something that has existed in that form for a thousand years... ...or, excuse me, a million years or more. Right, you're walking into an environment you're supposed to lose... ...and you're hunting an animal. Yeah, the only reason why you win is because you have a bow and arrow. Right. ...or you have a rifle. And you know which way the wind's blowing. That's the big thing. It's like, if you get winded, if they smell you, it's over. Yeah. Like, the whole thing is the wind has to be in your face. So if you're looking at the animal, the wind has to be coming in your direction.

2:25:43If the wind hits the back of your neck, it's over. Really? You feel it. Yeah. You're like, oh, shit. Because they'll smell you instantly. They're like, what the fuck this? Wow. Realistically. Wow. Yeah. 100 yards away. They just start running. Really? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. What if the wind was going like perpendicular? No. It has to go to them. Right. That's why they always find themselves. They always bed down in a position where the wind is coming straight to them towards any threats. Yeah. And then the females will line up and look in the other way. So they'll look towards the way where the wind is going.

2:26:20Yeah. And then everyone will line out so the wind comes to them. And then some will look in the opposite direction. Wow. Yeah. And try to keep their eyes open. But again, it's because they're dealing with cats. It's fascinating. It's worth, though. Yeah. It's just because it's so, it's so, I mean, it is so tactical, not just like the physicality of it and the wind and the environment, but just like the, the mental, you know. It's all strategy. It's all bizarrely psychedelic in this weird way when, when you're there, the world doesn't exist. And when you see these animals, you connect with them in some sort of a strange way.

2:26:55And you're, you're trying to like, almost not exist. You're trying to like, give off nothing. Which is what cats do when you see them creeping up on things. They're not like, oh, yeah, right. They're not rolling. They're like locked in. Yeah. They're locked in almost like non -existent. Yeah. Yeah. And then the whole thing is like, I got to be able to move quicker than you can run away. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's such a, it's a close sport, yeah. It's a weird, but it's, whatever these animals are experiencing with each other is probably some form of telepathy as well. Mm -hmm. You know, how do they know, like, how do wolves know to work together?

2:27:31Is it just trial and error? Like, it seems like they have roles that they've, like, predetermined roles. Like, one of them will chase them down. The other one will be laying and waiting. Like, they do stuff together. They coordinate. Yeah. Some strange ways. You had that wolf woman on your show, right? Yeah. Fascinating. Yeah. She's so interesting. Yeah. But she was most afraid of people. Yeah. Yeah. Rightly so. Yeah. How many people get killed by wolves every year versus people? Yeah. Yeah. People are way creepier. Yeah. Yeah. Wolves are just real, I mean, clear, not simple, complex, obviously, but clear in what they're trying to do.

2:28:07They're trying to eat, survive. Mm -hmm. And that's their job. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's was a tangent, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. We've got a lot of tangents, but that's the beauty of the human mind. It is. I love the human mind. It does go on tangents. Yes. I think that we're all sort of trying to understand why we view the world the way we do and how much of that has been projected upon us by culture and society and how much of it is things we understand innately, how many things we can't prove, but that are a part of this world that we live in. Right. And I think what your show has done with the telepathy tapes, and I'm sure what the documentary has done, is I think more important than anything, open up this possibility to be explored, you know, and recognizing that it's real and that these preconceived notions that we've held on to for so long are probably erroneous.

2:29:10We probably have screwed ourselves by latching on to the idea that this is it. This is all that we have, and this is the way to live life and put your suit on and go to work. Right. Yeah. But a boring way to live life. Thank gosh. I can't imagine working in an office. Yeah. I think it's a pendulum script. I mean, the whole world is opening up right now, right? I mean, there's just poof, like so much is happening, I think, that people are challenging these preconceived old fat. Ooh. I might have some coffee now. Please do. Sorry. No. I said no earlier. No, I'm going to do it. Cheers. Cheers, thanks for being here.

2:29:45Yeah. Like your mug. With a third eye. You can have it. Really? Okay. I'll bring it home. That's cool. So I can't wait to taste your coffee. See how strong it is. It's pretty good. That's great. Shout out to black folks. It's perfect. Yeah, it's good. It's great. So what is your hope for this stuff? Like in your most ideal scenario. Yeah. How you're obviously your show has been received in a tremendously positive way. And people are super intrigued and it's really popular. So that's great. So more discussion. But what, like in an ideal scenario, what would you like to happen? Okay. I think there's three things, right?

2:30:30I think for one, like baseline, for people to presume competence in non -speaking individuals, or someone who can't control their body. Don't think just because they can't speak doesn't mean they can't think, you know. That's not there. Yeah, they're in there. And then I think the second one is certainly to try to get spelling validated in schools. Right? Like it's almost like telepathy in a way. Operated as a Trojan horse to get people to acknowledge and notice these incredible individuals and just take note and help them. So I think getting spelling validated and affirmed and make it accessible in schools.

2:31:02That would be the next thing. And then I think the third thing is, I mean, truly a paradigm shift. I mean, I want people to know because I've come to what I feel like is believe this, right? That there is a non -physical world that's real. Our idea that consciousness is at the tippy top. That's the result of this physical world. I think it's incorrect. I think consciousness is at the bottom of it and started everything. And with that in mind, consciousness then, there's so much more possible. It can survive our body. We can communicate without our bodies. We can see into the future, maybe into the past.

2:31:35I mean, whatever it is, anything mental we're capable of. And that helps us explain a lot more. So the paradigm shift, I think, is really cool. If it can happen. And a lot of people have been working toward that, you know. I mean, so I'm just like a tiny bit in a large puzzle of huge giants have come before me. But I think that if this is going to help more people, like, just be aware of the system of what is called, again, like this materialism, which is the idea that it's only what's real can be, you know, observed and measured. If we can get people to realize they're living in that system, that system was constructed and it's not necessarily the truth.

2:32:10So don't be embarrassed to talk about stuff, to research stuff, to ask a question, you shouldn't be ridiculed and dismissed just because the system tells you you should be. That concept is just so hard to grasp. If you haven't read any of Tom Campbell's stuff or haven't considered this or listen to Rupert Chelderick talk or your show, it's like it's so hard for people to grasp that. Yeah, Tom Campbell blew my mind. I mean, he is like. Yeah. I got a lot of text messages from buddies after that. What the fuck dude? I'm so confused. Yeah. But this is what I will say. Because I actually had a friend that when I was sort of like going through my own thing, she was just like, just if you just start reading about some of this stuff, just reading it, you'll find what you're looking for.

2:32:52Like there's so much there, whether if you start reading about near -death experiences, or Ian Stevenson, or Tom Campbell, or any of this stuff, it's just like. And the reason people are researching this, right? Yeah. It's not like this just happened. This has been going on for a long time, these questions. So once the documentary's out, what do you hope to do next? Do you have a game plan? So we just started working on the doc. I'm hoping that will be done and wrapped up really next year. Maybe from here, it's south by, I'll be back, hopefully. I mean, two knows. And so after that, then we're going to do an impact campaign, where you take a documentary around, and you screen it with a panel.

2:33:32So that'd be cool. It'd be non -speakers, and we can get people from the Department of Education there or whatever in different cities. And then hopefully that will make an impact at people into the rooms, talking to whatever. And then after that, we have a really long -term goal, where we want to try to work with like a few foundations, or maybe start a foundation to open centers that can, if you can imagine, something, maybe like kind of like the size of an REI in every city, where non -speakers can go and get like physical, and mental, and spiritual supports, and spelling, help, and education, or whatever.

2:34:03You know, there's physical therapy that can help, and for respite care for these parents, we're working 24 -7 to take care of these individuals. And it could just be a beautiful thing, but then there's so many academics to what you can noted earlier, like that might want to work with non -speakers. Who might want to, can you help me decode whale language, or figure out how to stop blanching the coral reefs, or whatever. So if there's, you know, I know non -speakers who want to work in plant medicine, who want to work in this, who want to work in XYZ. But I think the most important thing is these centers maybe could vet those individuals, make sure these academics learn to become a spelling, to communicate partner, and be background check to make sure they don't have some a various goal.

2:34:42And then this could maybe create opportunities for spellers to make money, to have a career, to really contribute in these meaningful ways. So that's our goal, is to create these like centers that can have both nourish and support non -speakers and their families, but also allow non -speakers to engage and use their intellect and abilities to have like meaningful careers. That end more, right? More people coming out, more people understanding it, more people grasping it, more people accepting. And then this sort of changes the level of cynicism, so changes the level of negativity, it opens up the acceptance of this stuff, and then maybe we learn more.

2:35:26Yeah, yeah. And it's just, I mean, in history two people would look at deaf people, or blind people before, and think they're not in there, especially deaf people, which is like, oh, they're must not be in there. No one thinks that anymore, it's ridiculous to think that. Right, right. You know, but we're doing the same thing to this population. So, yeah, I mean, there are some of the most brilliant individuals that I've ever met. And actually, I talked to a teacher right before I left here today, and I said, she was talking about her student, she just had a conversation with, who, she said in, when, in Elm and middle school or whatever, high school, what did you learn that whole time?

2:35:57What did you learn in school? Well, he was being taught like he was little, and what he answered was patience. I mean, just so beautiful, so wise, right? He wasn't crappin' on that, like, I learned nothing that kept telling me animal colors and this and whatever, like, it wasn't anger, it was I learned patience. Wow. Because us, you know, our stupid system that has made these individuals out to be like, they're not smart, has taught them, has failed them when it comes to education. So, I just thought that was a beautiful answer, and so, so in line with how wise and kind and thoughtful, so many non -speakers I've met are.

2:36:30Yeah, that's a beautiful answer. That's a good way to wrap this up. Okay, thank you very much for being here, and thank you very much for your series. Yeah. It's really incredible, and I, I can't wait to watch the documentary, and I'd love to have you back on when, when, whenever releases. Yeah, wonderful. I'll bring some parents with me. Okay. And a non -speaker was, you can see it. Okay. I'm gonna bring Katie and Houston, and your mind's gonna go, okay, let's do it. Yeah. All right. To wrap up these tapes, it's available basically everywhere. Spotify, Apple, whatever, right? Wherever you get your podcast.

2:37:03It's really incredible. I loved it. All right. That's it. Thank you very much. Thank you, y 'all. Thank you, everybody.

2:37:23Thank you very much.