#2316 - Cameron Hanes

24:44Flavor. Flavor aid. Flavor aid. Oh, or aid. Flavor aid. Oh, that's an F. Make it larger? Oh, it's blurry. Oh, there he goes. Oh, there he goes. Yeah, flavor aid. Okay. Flavor aid. I killed everybody with flavor aid. He's mixing it up. Poison has got to be the fucking worst waiter. There he goes. Who the hell is that? I was feeling your body just getting destroyed from the inside out. Terrible. For some jackass who's on Meph. Oh. It's a crazy podcast. But this is my point. Like, what they're trying to do is keep people, keep these heterodox opinions, keep people that are like outside of the circle of expertise from talking about things.

25:23Even if they've read like, tarot kupers read like hundreds of books. The guys like a fucking consummate reader. You might disagree with them about something. That's fine. That should be okay. It should be okay to disagree with people about stuff. Yeah. And also what is learning? I mean, what is learning? Yeah. So you said he read, he did all this research. Douglas Murray has a problem with, I don't know who, but how is that difference in going to school essentially? Right. I mean, it's no different. It's no different. I mean, there are experts that stop learning the moment they get their degree.

25:58And that's real. Yeah. And it's a real problem. It's a real problem in medicine. You know, I had an argument with Brian Calan years ago because his doctor was telling him, you don't need supplements. You just, you just need a balanced diet. That's what his doctor was saying. I go, your doctor looks like shit. Like, what do you talk? Your doctor's fat. He's got a big pot belly. He's got a big doughy face. You probably can't run around the block. Shut the fuck up. Don't listen to that guy. There's plenty of peer -reviewed papers that talk about the efficacy of vitamins. They're super beneficial for you.

26:25This is crazy talk. This appeal to experts. Just because you have a degree. You're not always right. You're wrong all the time. Yeah, that was pretty disappointing because I thought, Douglas Murray, I liked listening to him. I thought he was super smart. Obviously, very articulate. He's so good at that accent. Yeah, but then on that one, I think I told you, is like, all right, text you something about. Man, he's seen pompous. It's like, that seemed like that would took a big, for me, it was a loss for him big time. Well, he used tactics rather than facts. So the tactic was the appeal to experts like that.

27:02And there was also saying that the coverage was imbalanced because I didn't have enough people that were pro -Israel. But then I thought about it afterwards. I'm like, I don't quite a few. There was Jordan, Ben Shapiro. There was Coleman Hughes. There's been quite a few people that are pro -Israel. And not even that people are anti -Israel. They just don't want to watch people get blown apart all the time. Right. That seems pretty reasonable. But instead of debating how this is done and what is being done militarily, it all became about like who are the experts and what are the things that should be discussed and should it be balanced and do you have an obligation?

27:40Like, that's not what we're here for. What we're here for is to get down to business. So what he's doing is like putting you on the defensive right away at the gate. Yeah. Which is like, I recognize that I'm like, okay. Now you are perfect. You are perfect. The perfect purpose is to handle that. Because most people when they start getting attacked, you get defensive, you attack back. Right. It just changes the whole dynamic of the conversation. But you stayed pretty neutral on that. It's a trap. Yeah. It's a trap. It's like, you know, when someone gets in your face and they start yelling, you're gonna need your face like, what, okay, what are we doing?

28:12We fighting. You know, I could like start yelling too. Yeah. And then maybe I won't be using what happens. Yeah. And then maybe I won't be paying attention to your hands. Or your shoulder movement. Distracted. Whether or not you're gonna hit me. Yeah. See, that's a tactic. That's a fighting tactic. 100%. He had the same tactic, but not for fighting, but for conversation. Yeah. It's a tactic. You know, and then the thing of asking Dave, you've never been like to dismiss, and instead of having a debate on the issues. Like, and this idea that expert like, Douglas Marr, I love him dearly. I think he's a brilliant man.

28:45It's kind of a green history. Or excuse me, he's got a degree in English. Bachelor's degree. He's not an expert either. Unless we're talking about Shakespeare, shut the fuck up. Because you're not an expert either. You know what I mean? I don't have a degree in anything. I don't have zero degrees in anything. But there's certain things that I'm an expert in. You want to talk about martial arts. I'm a martial arts expert. Like, if you disagree with me, you have to be like, in order for me to have a conversation with someone where they disagree with me about martial arts, they have to be so much better.

29:13It has to be like Gordon Ryan. Right. You know, like, but I don't disagree with Gordon on anything. For him, like that's a real expert. Again, no degrees. That's a real expert. I would just ask questions. Like, what do you do in this situation? What's the benefit of this versus that? And so you talk about it. Like, with these political issues, they're so such a third rail. It's such a fucking dangerous subject that people have like a group that they belong with. And then that group will support them if they go out and say these ideas. And then the other people have another group. And then this person's a representative of one group and they wanna do it out with the rep.

29:51Any reasonable person would look at Gaza and go, this seems kind of excessive. This seems kind of fucking crazy. It seems kind of crazy. It's 70 ,000 people or whatever it is. They're dead, including women and children. This is the only way to do it, really? Any reasonable person that doesn't make you anti -semitic. It doesn't make you anti -Zionist. Doesn't make you anything. It just like, doesn't make you pro -Hamas. No, it's gonna be pro -human. Yeah. Human -binks. I don't think human should be murdered. Yeah. It's like, that sounds so reasonable. But the thing is, we never got into that. Yeah.

30:24Because the conversation, tactically, he entered into the conversation as, because he doesn't have really a defensible position. It's very hard to say this is the only way to do it. So what do you say? You say you need better experts. You shouldn't be talking to this person. You should be doing this. You should be doing that. Like, why don't you have this? You've never been there. You should go there. Like, bitch, I am not going there. I don't need the fuck of you talking about it. You're not even going to Brazil for another UFC fight. Yeah, exactly. I don't go to Canada. Like, not traveling out of the country.

30:57Yeah. It's like, you know, it's not, not what I'm interested in doing. I don't have to. Well, what's crazy is, so he had that take, but even unless you're an expert or educated, you shouldn't have built that, share this opinion. Yeah. But he'd had the opposite take before. Oh, yeah, which is hilarious, because somebody put a video up of him arguing with him. Completely opposite. So that, and I'm not, I don't, I ask you about this, not with him, but I ask you, do you think there's like government plans? Because it's like, if somebody, I'm not saying him, I'm just saying just in general. If somebody changes their position, so, I don't know.

31:36I don't know. It's hard to know. What it, how, who got to them and why did this happen? Because then I look around, we talk about the power podcast, and I see these podcasts, and it's like, how did this podcast get every guess you could ever want and rise to the top in a heartbeat? When we know how it normally works, it works like you, decades, right, to get to the top. Then some people, so I'm thinking like, how did this happen? Well, some people are really good, you know, and they could be really good right out of the bat, right off the bat, they could be better at it, and then they get a good following, and then once it gets into the top 20 or whatever, then they can get good guests.

32:19Because when it comes to... They usually take time. It's sometimes. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I wonder what would happen if I started the podcast today? If there was all the podcasts that we're out right now, and I had never done a podcast, and I started today, and I did it exactly how I'm doing it. How long would it take for it catches on? I don't know. I don't either. I would suck though. That would be a problem. I was sucking everybody be watching. Because I sucked when nobody was watching, and I got better at it. I figured out how to do it. But as far as like Douglass, I don't know if anybody got to him, or whether or not the group that he associates with thinks this way.

32:55I don't necessarily put everything inside of a grand conspiracy. It might be that he has financial ties towards certain things, you know, like he speaks at certain places. He sells certain books. He knows how he's selling them. I mean, or it might be just that's how he thinks about things too. Sometimes people always think like, oh, somebody got to him. Like maybe that's just how he thinks. Yeah. Somebody has to think that way. Otherwise, that wouldn't be an opinion that's out there in the zeitgeist. Normally people don't switch 180 degrees on things though. Especially like that. Yeah. That's true.

33:31That's true. Because if he's educated on things, if he's been around, if he's, you know, the smart wise person, you formed this opinion based on that, you don't go 180 degrees the other way and change complete the complete opposite take. Right. Unless you've been influenced. It wasn't like you were just a kid and you didn't know. And now the sitting here in the adult is like, I can't believe I used to say that. He was an adult the whole time. Right. Right, right, right. So how? I don't know. You know, it's, you definitely could get suspicious, for sure. But you know, I hear people say that about me too, which is hilarious.

34:09But I said that I have like C .I .A. handlers. I know, but I've heard all that. I'm very happy. Dude, you've been doing this. Yeah. You're the OG. I'm one of the OGs. Yeah. Um, I think for sure people do get influenced. But I think people also allow themselves to get influenced because they have a financial interest in keeping a certain opinion. Because they know that the group that they belong to has that certain opinion. There's that. But the real problem with doing what he did was that it diminishes you publicly. Like if you really want to do that kind of a debate, if you really want to use those kind of tactics rather than a discussion of the issue, like you've never been, like that kind of stuff diminishes you publicly.

34:52Because everybody knows what you're doing. Yeah. Instead of just having a conversation about, yeah. Okay. Anybody with a, anybody with an opinion, I value, knows what you're doing. Because if you understand conversations, you understand that's, this is not, or you're not really engaging with the ideas, you're deciding whether or not a person should have these ideas or be able to, you've never been there. Like you can't, how can you have an opinion? You know, at least you should do the courtesy. Like now, now I'm virtuous. I have been, I put, I'm elevated. I'm better than you. You're diminished.

35:24You haven't even been there. Yeah. Your opinion is basically meaningless. Yeah. You know, and then it gets to this weird place where it's like who's allowed to talk about what? You know, that's, that's what, it just, the change was so abrupt. It's so opposite. I was just like, cause you could think, if somebody was, okay, here's an example. I had somebody offer me today, not today, yesterday. If I would wear their hat, $5 ,000. Mm -hmm. So, What the hat and a bunch of dicks on it? No. It was just a brand. But, so, point is, there's value into doing this. So, if somebody says, well, your voice is this powerful or you can reach as many people or this many people listen to you.

36:11So, if it's a political party or a movement and they have this guy, we'll pay you this much to push this point. Mm -hmm. UFC 315 is almost here. We've got two title fights with Muhammad versus Dela Madalena and Valentinischevchenko and Manon Führer. And I've got just one question for you. Are your bets in? If not, look no further than Draft King Sportsbook. Official Sports Betting Partner of the UFC. If you're brand new to Draft King's, here's something big. New customers can bet $5 and get $200 in bonus bets instantly. Download the Draft King Sportsbook app now and use the code Rogan. That's code Rogan for new customers to score $200 in bonus bets when you bet just $5.

36:58Only on Draft King Sportsbook, the crown is yours. Gambling problem called 1 -800 -GAMBELLER. In New York called 877 -8 -HOPEN -WIRE. Text Hope NY -467 -369. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling called 888 -8 -8 -7 -9 -777 or visit ccpg .org. Please play responsibly. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resorting Kansas, 21 and over, Agent eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void and Ontario. New customers only. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. Four additional terms and responsible gaming resources see dkng .co slash audio. It's possible. It's also possible that he views a guy like Dave Smith as sort of a dangerous upstart.

37:44Dave Smith has incredible recall and he's very well read. He's a consummate consumer of information. And he's always reading books on different wars and foreign policy. He's really into it. The way he explains it to me is like, some of his recalls insane. He's like, yeah, but I could talk to you about a fight that happened 10 years ago and you'll tell me exactly how it went down. That's all it is. This is what I'm into. Just like I'm not studying it for any other reason other than I'm fascinated by human conflicts, like global conflicts. And so when a guy like that is rising, you want to try to diminish his impact if he disagrees with your perspective.

38:30Like if you see someone. But not everybody would want to disobey that impact. Not everybody. That's a certain type of person. But he's also a certain type of person that kind of existed in both traditional media and alternative media. I mean, he always did my podcast and he's written some great books. Like the strange death of Europe is very good and proving to be very accurate. You know, if you look at like what's happening with mass migration into Europe, like he was calling this a long time ago. He's saying like, and he was being called terrible names, racist, Islamophobic, all these different things.

39:08And it turns out he was right. I mean, what Conor McGregor's talking about in Ireland now and a lot of other Irish people are talking about what people were talking about in the UK. He was right. Like you're changing your culture and you're doing it. You're not having people move there that are assimilating and becoming British. You're having people that are coming there and trying to change what being British means. This is all he was saying. And so I agree with him on a lot of things but I think that's how life is. You agree with people on some things. You disagree with them on other things.

39:40And this is supposed to be how most people view basically everything in life. There's gonna be things that you agree with that there's a lot of friends that disagree with me on certain things but that should be fine. That should be normal. But for some people it's not. For some people it's not allowed because they live in this sort of debate culture. And you know, and some people they do debates. One of the first things to do is they insult the people they're debating with. They're just like, add hominem attacks and again, trying to get you on the defensive. That's, it's like a tactic of, when we talk about mainstream media, like those interview type shows where you only have a certain amount of time.

40:20So they have to get right to it. Whereas that's not the case with the podcast. Also, I value perspective. I value someone who could look at things and go, yeah, like clearly the devastation is horrible. Clearly, clearly it's horrible. Clearly there's innocent people. I've seen people say, I don't want to say who. I've seen people say there are no innocent Palestinians in Gaza. I've seen people say that. That's a crazy thing to say. That's a crazy thing to say. Especially in a place that's controlled by essentially a terrorist group. Like, like that's a crazy thing to say. Like what do you think Chicago would look like?

41:02How do you think people would behave? If Chicago was controlled by a terrorist group. Do you think people would be free to speak out against them? That's, is that the problem? They're not speaking out against them. So they should get bombed. That's crazy. If you have a wife and a child and you barely getting by, you barely have enough money for food, are you really going to be out in the streets protesting against this fucking terrorist group with machine guns and billions of dollars that they've gotten from USA? Yeah. No, you wouldn't. You wouldn't. You wouldn't be. You're not expressing yourself freely.

41:30So how do we even know what their opinions are? Yeah. That's true. Yeah, it's just, I mean, all of it, just a changing landscape of media has just, you know, just gets you thinking about like these voices and, you know, and Douglas brought it up with that discussion was, was interesting, but all that I remember from it is like, how much he changed his perspective. But so anyway. I think you still a brilliant guy. Yeah. And I would still talk to him and listen to him about a lot of things. But I think having conversations like that, communicating with people like that, diminishes your appeal or diminishes whether or not, it diminishes the overall impact of your mind on other people because I know you think goofy this way.

42:20I know you communicate goofy this way. And as soon as I know that, I'm like, yeah, I now have to put this through this filter now when you say things. I have to go, yeah, but he believes a bunch of goofy shit about that. Which is fine. Which is fine. I'm sure people do that with me too. It's normal. But I think for someone who is a public intellectual that becomes a problem when everyone who's really paying attention knows you're using tactics rather than actually just debating the issues at hand. Just talking it through. Yeah. But this like the thing is like, who's talking? Like come on. Everybody's talking bitch.

42:57The whole world's talking. Let people talk. Yeah. It's a crazy time for sure. But yeah, you know what? You know what I was thinking also. I don't have. Did you know I don't have a bow hunting degree? Oh, that's crazy. You should get a degree. Who's giving out degrees? I shouldn't be able to bow hunt really. Should I? Yeah, you're allowed to bow hunt without a degree. Yeah, because it's caveman fucking practice. How awesome is bow hunting now? It's the best. Yeah, best way to get food. Yeah, there's no better way to get food have you been shooting? Yeah, shot this morning. Did you want to waste a belt?

43:31Yeah, are we gonna shoot? I don't know if I have time today unfortunately, because we spent so much time at waste a while. And I got a head home after this. Getting healthy. Yeah, we were getting stem cells today. And what's the mask? The infusion? The lung stuff? Yeah, that was, well, stem cell nebulizer basically. Yeah, so you breathe it in. So you breathe it in like vape. You're vaping stem cells. Gotta be. Hey, all I know. And I said this one I was there, but I did that last time. And then I ran a five mile race. It was 8K, but my fastest five miles I've ever run. Really, with a broken foot.

44:08Yeah, at 57. So it's like, I don't know what it, if it didn't hurt, it didn't hurt me obviously. Well, they've done so many amazing things with me. Then I'm, you know, when they say something is really great, you should try and like, okay. So I put the mask on and I'm sitting there with you. We're talking about Rocky Marciano. Oh, look at that. We were, I got into these old videos on YouTube of fighters training. And I got into this one video that I sent you about Rocky Marciano and how insane his training was. And it was seven days a week. He would spar sometimes 30, 40 rounds in a day. He would run 10 miles in the morning and then five more miles at night.

44:52And then he would swim two miles in the lake. He would swim across the lake and then back. And then he would get up in the morning and do it all over again. And he never took days off. No, and another thing he was like, focused on recovery and sleep. Like he would be in bed like at nine. I think I said every night and get his sleep in, but work so hard. And why do we love stories like that? Cause you know, a hearted is to do. Yeah. Yeah. But it's, it's impossible. I mean, it's possible, but it's impossible for most. It's like it requires a mind that is just fortified through will and discipline to this strange hardness that's just different than everybody else's.

45:38Well, but, but why would, okay, so he retired at 49 or no. Yeah. Heavyweight, everybody knows him in fighting. Maybe not everybody in the world, obviously. He died a while ago. By the way, small heavyweight, we're talking about that too. I think in his primary is 190 pounds or 189 pounds. Something like something crazy. Like what did Rocky Marcy on a way? Why was funny? I think he was 510 and he weighed like 189 pounds, which is insane. Yeah. Like 188, that's so crazy, dude. So he weighed 12 pounds less than me. Think about that. 510 in a quarter. He weighs 12, he's two inches tall to me and a little more.

46:17And then he weighs 12 pounds less. Did he fight Joe Lewis in sending? Yeah, he fought, no, no, no, no. He fought Joe Lewis when Joe Lewis was way past his prime and flatlined him. It was pretty brutal. It was a scary fight. What, what, he was, that's so crazy that he was only 188 pounds and he was the heavyweight champion. Granted, this is a different world. Yeah, different era, for sure. Yeah, there was no Tyson Fury and there was no Mike Tyson either. Right. Everybody talks about Rocky Marciano. Rocky Marciano was great. Mike Tyson went and went through him like a fucking train through a flock of sheep.

46:51Yeah. It's a different world. Rocky Marciano at his heaviest, he weighed 192. Okay. He fought seven boxers to weigh more than 200 pounds. But people weren't that big back then. Sonny Liston was. Sonny Liston was big. Okay, so he would have been 20 pounds bigger than Rocky Marciano. Sonny Liston. Yes. But Mike Tyson wasn't that big when he was in his prime. When his prime was like 215 to 212, you know, and 510 or 511 as well. He wasn't very big and he was, he was born in 69. Did I see that right? No, no, no. I think that's when he died. Oh, he died. Okay. I was going to say he can't be younger than us.

47:27No, no, no, no. He was a heavyweight champion in the 1950s. All right, never mind. I do feel old, it's not that old. Fine. Rocky Marciano, KO's, Joe Lewis. It was brutal because, you know, back then when you were 38 or whatever, Joe Lewis was when they fought, you were really 38. No nutrition. Yeah. And also lifetime of fighting. Probably needed the money, which is why he took the fight. It's not like the Joe Lewis that knocked out Max Schmelling in the height of the war. It knows like on America's hero. This is, this is Joe Lewis when he's on his ball. Ding's got a big ball spot in the back. But he's like, it's sad.

48:06Yeah. And Rocky Marciano just malls. Just crazy about how did George Foreman reinvent himself when he was old? The thing is like one thing that you did see in this fight was the technical brilliance of Joe Lewis, especially early in the fight. Like if they had fought in their prime, I think Lewis would have fucked him up. That's my belief. He's a lot bigger. He was, he was taller and, but he also had incredible power. How old was what we'll ask after watching this video? But he was doing really well for a while. But the thing about Marciano was he was not the most talented, but he did not get fucking tired and he hit like a truck.

48:45He hit like a truck and he was just a fucking animal. He just plowed forward. He never ran out of gas. Like this is not like a technically skilled boxing match. He was just mall guys. He would just bob and wave and this is the end of it. At the end, Joe Lewis goes through the ropes. It's sad, man. It's sad. Yeah. It's sad. That's the best. That's the best. Marciano. That's the sad. He looked pretty good though, up until like Rocky started catching him. But this is how a lot of Rocky's fights would go. Even his last fight, which was against Archie Moore, I think he got dropped in that fight and just got up and just eventually pounded him and beat him down and KO him.

49:34But he was just so fucking tough. Like what he would do to himself was nothing compared to whatever was going to happen inside that ring. Right. That was going to be my point. So he had all the success, retired, undefeated. Pretty young too. People knew he was 37. He was 37. 37. Okay. That's how old Poetan is right now. Okay. That's how old Alex Pereira is right now. Right. That's crazy. So 37 back then was like, it was over. Oh yeah. So much older. But yeah. So when you look at Rocky's success, why weren't, why even seeing that and there's fighters out there, why wouldn't they emulate his style, his training, his, why, why, if you, if that's what you do and you want the same type of success, why are you letting somebody out work you?

50:25Yeah. It's not that simple. It's like first of all, you're not as exposed to people like that and let's you train with them. Yeah. There's no huge videos. There's no, you might hear things, you know, but if you hear things like I heard Rocky's training seven days a week, 24 hours a day, you don't sleep the only eats raw meat. You hear stories like that. You know, I was Mickey. That was Rocky's train. Yeah. Well, that, you know, but like that, you would hear exaggerations. You always hear exaggerations that come out of fight gyms. But I would want to believe those if I was a fighter and be like, because it didn't, didn't Tyson used to say that.

51:02That's why I got up at five in the morning before the morning. Yes. Well, Tyson did train like that. Yeah. You know, else train like that forever? Marvin Hagler. Oh, I thought you were going to say Floyd. Marvin Hagler trained like a fucking warrior. Right. He used to run in, he was to train on the sand dunes in the Cape of Cape Cod in the middle of the winter. And he would just be running screaming war. Love that. War. Just throwing punches. He would run at combat boots. He was an animal. He was an animal. Just Spartan. He would go to this province town in no fucking phones. He would tell his wife and family, I'm gone.

51:40I don't exist. I'm gone. For two months, he would just vanish. And every day would be the same thing. And he would spar, he would spar a lot. Hagler was sparring 100 rounds a week. So he was sparring 20 rounds a day for five days in a row. So. And he would bring in fresh sparring partners too. It was like one guy he's beaten up for 20 rounds. Now he would rotate five different sparring partners so they would all come in and do four rounds each. They could do that too, kind of. Perhaps I don't know. I mean, I don't know exactly. We could be out had unbelievably grueling training sessions. And you know, that was one of the things that was so apparent like with his endurance and his, their discipline was like second to none.

52:29There were like no girlfriends, no phones, no bullshit, no video games, fuck you, we train. Yeah. And you know, recover, train, eat, recover, train. And you want to, you want to really be a champion. This is how you have to work. And this is how Islam. Makachaf is so good. That's why it could be, but so good. Those guys are disciplined. So this episode is brought to you by Farmer's Dog. It doesn't matter how old your dog is. It's always a great time to start investing in their health and happiness. And thankfully, the Farmer's Dog makes it easier than ever to feed your dog a healthy diet of real meat and veggies.

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54:26Plus, with Squarespace's integrated and optimized SEO tools, there's all the help you need to get people to your site. Head to squarespace .com slash Emma for a free trial and use code Emma to save 10 % on your first purchase. If I think about it, we love stories like that. We love all the sparring, but it's not going to lead to a long life. No, I mean, no, no, no, no. Is that the price to be a Rocky Marciano or a cabeeb who has to retire at whatever he was, 32 or whatever? Is that what it takes to be legends? Yeah, you give up something to get something like, I don't think you'd be completely balanced to be and be the best ever.

55:13But, you know, it depends on how you're doing it, you know? Like, the thing that's so brilliant about Floyd Mayweather is that if you look at his career, he might have been really hit hard four or five times. Yeah. In his whole career, which is insanity. I mean, you really just only, that's a Heigler. Yeah. In the snow, scream and war. What is the best? Yeah, but so why do we love stories like this? Well, for me, when I was a kid, Heigler was the man. Yeah. You know, when I was in high school, but we still love them now. Yeah. I love like that clip you sent me yesterday. Oh, yeah. Or this. This club is the same, same YouTube website.

55:55It's boxing life without the YouTube channel. So really good channel. But with Heigler's discipline was just, it was so admirable. Like, he didn't have to go fucking Cape Cod in the middle of the winter. Right. He did it because he wanted to be separated. He wanted to live a Spartan life. Look, he would run backwards. Yeah. Throw in punches. And that's a, I think that's either goodie or pat. They're the Petronelli brothers with the guys who trained them. But like, this is his workout. Six mile runs, deep hills running backwards, breakfast, rest, watch TV film, late lunch, boxing training, strength conditioning, dinner, watch film, and sleep.

56:31Repeat rents. Do it again day after day after day. That's it. Yeah. I don't see too much chill out in there. My favorite fight with him was against John the Beast, Mugabi. Because everybody points to the herds fight where you beat the shit out of herds and KO them. Incredible. Incredible. Incredible knockout for sure. One of the best boxing matches. One of the best, most entertaining, entertaining world championship fights of all time. But for me, it was Mugabi. Because Mugabi was uniquely talented. Mugabi had insane power. I remember I was at a boxing gym in Massachusetts. At the time, Mugabi was about to fight Hagler.

57:09When Mugabi was coming up and they were telling me stories about Mugabi fighting guys and they never fought again. They had brain damage. You know, I don't know how, again, boxing gym talk. It's hard to know. Yeah. But I remember being a kid listening to this going, what the fuck? Like he hit that hard. Mugabi just was flattening people. See if you can find John Mugabi, who did he KO? Did he KO Terry Norris? No, that was later. Who did John Mugabi fight that he knocked out? Best KOs. Let's see. Let's pull up John Mugabi's record. So John Mugabi was like, almost kind of, okay, here. Top John Mugabi greatest knockouts.

57:48He was almost like a Francis and Gano guy, where it's like his power was just so crazy. You would watch him hit people and you'd go, what the fuck, man? Oh, this is Julian Jackson, right? Is that who it is? Pretty sure he KOed Julian Jackson. Maybe that was Terry Norris. No, Julian Jackson KOed Terry Norris. But, you know, he just had just extraordinary power. Are they showing the KOs here? This is just a lot of boxing. Here it is. Here he goes. Oh, yeah. Bro, he just had this one punch knockout power. When he fought Haggar, man, he caught Haggar with some big shots. One of the more impressive things about Marvin was not just that he was such a big puncher and a great boxer, but also how durable he was because he was in such incredible shape.

58:42He never went down his entire career. He has one knockdown and it was 100 % bullshit. He fought this guy named Juan Roldan. And when Haggar was bending over, Juan Roldan kind of cuffed him in the back of the neck and he fell forward and they called it a knockdown. It was not a knockdown and most boxing experts, I would actually argue that all boxing experts agreed that that was not a real knockdown. So you're talking about a guy who fought Tommy Hernds. He fought like that last one. Yeah, it was a little illegal. A little on the knee down. He KO some. But the point is, Mugabe was terrifying and he was fucking everybody up and Haggar broke him.

59:21But in the beginning, it was rough. In the beginning, it was rough. Mugabe was landing some big shots. See if you can find Mugabe, well, I know it's available. Mugabe versus Haggler. It was mean too, man. Like hitting guys where they were down. Dangerous, dangerous guy. And I don't know if he fought again after Haggler KOed him, but he was never in the conversation again. Haggar broke him. Haggar told him he was going to retire him. He's like, I'm going to retire him. He's never going to box again. And he just beat him down. And I think it was the 11th round when he finally stopped him. 5859. Yeah, 160.

59:55You know, that's about right. You know, generally speaking for heavily muscle guys, especially back then, those guys were not caught in a lot of weight like they are today. Right. Like some of these guys today are caught in big weight. Oh, God, Haggler looks good. Yeah, by the time the 8th round started happening, Haggler, one of the things about Haggler that was so good was Haggler could switch. So he could fight you South Paul. And then in the middle of nowhere, he would switch up and start fight you Orthodox. It was just as good. Wow. Just as good. The only guy who's liked that is Terrence Crawford, who's champion now.

1:00:26He's the only guy that I've ever seen that fights just as good from South Paul, us from Orthodox. But Haggler was a rarity back then. A guy that could switch it up like that. Like nobody had ever seen that before. Yeah. But that's also why it was very difficult for him to get fights early on. Because nobody really wanted to fight a South Paul. Like South Paws were, there were two awkward. Everything's backwards. And if you're not used to fighting South Paws, they have an advantage because they're always fighting Orthodox people. Right. And he sends. Yeah, and so they're accustomed to that one look.

1:00:59Now this fight had gone back and forth and back before this is the end. This is when Haggler finally get some boom. And that was it. And I think that was the 11th or the 12th round. I think it was the 11th round of a 12 round fight. So Haggler fought in the era where they used to have 15 round fights and they turned them into 12 rounders after Dukku Kim died when Rayman, Cineke, or Dukku Kim. Yeah, it's a lot of damage. 15 rounds, a head shots. Yeah, man. But I mean, I think that's why Rocky Marceano retired when he was 32. And you know, 49 and 0. Yeah. And 32 years old, he could have kept fighting.

1:01:34Could have kept making money. 32 is your athletic pride. That's what I'm thinking like. And you know, Kabeeb did the same thing. And when I, I just love seeing those training camp videos carrying the rocks and running the mountains. And it's like, but you know, back to my point, why do we love that? Just because it's so primal or and it's just just men just giving everything they have. Yeah. It's like, it's one reason why Gaggen's is such a draw. Yeah, for sure. He's sort of like that. Oh, he's very much like that. But the craziest thing about Gaggen's is he's not even training for anything. I asked him about it.

1:02:12Some download and download information. I'm like, you're downloading. We're downloading. He's so crazy. We were talking about the video that he that stylebender just put out. He shot out the stylebender for putting this out too. We're also giving him credit because. He's back because David broke him. The higher we go. Because of their hurt. Come in. You heard. You know, we're going to go to another level. That's a record. Let's go off. You see. That's off. He's off. Your reward is mine begins. Where your world ends, mine begins. And this is one of Gaggen's multiple workouts of the day that he took stylebender through.

1:02:53There's stopbenders off there. Yeah. And he's they're helping him back up. By the way, this is after they already ran. This is like the second. This is the third thing they did. They ran. Then they did the airdine bike. And then they're doing this. So they did sprints on the airdine bike. They ran for distance. I don't know how many miles they ran. But he was exhausted after the run. Then exhausted after the airdine. And then he does this. And then they do it all over again. They start again with the fucking airdine machine. They go back and forth and then it goes to sit -ups. And then it goes to just like it never ends.

1:03:26And this is one. And then people go he's not doing that every day. Well, fucking clearly he is. Every day. Clearly he is. Because look at him. He's not even breathing heavy. Stylebender is dying. And David Goggins is talking to him with normal breath. At the same time, a world champion, one of the greatest middle weights of all time can't even keep his food down. And remember, this is Stylebender who against Kevin Gaslam was saying, I'm prepared to die. Going into the fifth round, looks across a ring. Cage says, I'm prepared to die. Same guy. Same guy. Yeah. There's levels when it comes to endurance.

1:04:05I was telling you about when we were getting our infusions, when we were vaping stem cells today. I was telling you about BJ Penn when he was in his prime. When BJ Penn was in his prime, he was training with Marv Morinovich. And Marv Morinovich had very unorthodox training methods where it was all plyometrics, explosive drills, sprints, box jumps, all this crazy stuff. And he believed, I'm hoping I'm not quoting him incorrectly, but he believed that fight training was of secondary importance when you're in camp. And really what was important is to just have a fucking insane gas tank. Like BJ Penn knows how to fight.

1:04:43He's a world champion. He's not going to forget how to fight. But you could get him training this way where you have this gas tank that's just insane. And when BJ Penn was training with him, he was unstoppable, man. He was like, I always say this, like people talk about could be being the greatest lightweight of all time. And maybe he is. It's very possible he is. But I would put the BJ Penn that fought Joe Daddy Stevenson, the BJ Penn that fought Sean Shirk, the BJ Penn that was like in that peak when he was training with him. I would put him against anybody, against anybody, against Diego Sanchez.

1:05:21He couldn't be stopped. And if you got him to the ground, this fucking submission game was insane. Off of his back, he would take your back, your dead. He would knock you out standing up. His kickboxing was illegal. How do you think could be with fight him? Take him down for sure. He probably fight him the same way George St. Pierre did. But the difference in size between BJ Penn and George St. Pierre is pretty significant. BJ Penn was really a 155 pound guy who actually later in his career fought 145. When he later, which was when he was kind of at the end of his career. But George is way bigger.

1:06:00Like George was a big 170, big muscular 170 with wide wrestlers, nasty ground and pound and a black belt in Jiu Jitsu himself and also a really good striker. And just in his prime when he was so well rounded. And there was also accusations of greasing. Because George was very slippery in a fight, which is if you're a grappler and the other person, you can't get a hold of him. Especially if you're guy like BJ who fights so well off of his back. Yeah. BJ's legs were like arms where he could be sitting there without using his hands. He could put his feet in the lotus position. So like completely cross and lock his legs in the lotus position without using his hands at all.

1:06:41Well, yeah, crazy flexibility and dexterity. Yeah. So if you were trapped in his guard, you were fucked. Yeah, you see those guys who they're on their back and they get their leg up around, the guy with the top positions head somehow. You know, just when you're in like any problems of that, it's terrifying. Any problem has the craziest guard I've ever been in. It's so nuts. And there's a bunch of Eddie students like Jeremiah Vance who also have these insane guards like that. There's certain guys where like if you're if they're on their back, it's no picnic like Fabrice over do him. He tapped Fador a million Enko from his back.

1:07:17He got him in an arm bar triangle from his back. Yeah. Well, you could tell like if we talk about a recent fight, Chandler versus Patty Pimble, Chandler didn't really want to be on the ground with Patty. No. And Chandler's a wrestler like he loves being on top ground, but still he had top position and was still nervous about doing stuff. It seemed like I don't know. Yes. Well, Patty. But it seemed like it. Patty's a big lightweight. He really is. I mean, I know he gets real fat in between five days. He looks big. But he's big. Yeah. He's big. You know, he's a lot bigger than people think. I always say that he tricks people by dancing and having silly hair and he goes, that's a killer.

1:07:55He's like tricking you. He's like, you know, he's like one of them bugs that pretends to stick. Do you get close to the jacks you? Yeah, he looked. He looks so good. He's really good. Which I, you know, I'm, you know, Chandler. I love Chandler. Love Chandler. That was a tough one to watch. I love Chandler's love. That's a fight. I love Patty as well. Patty is very impressive. Oh, yeah. You know, there's an argument that the last three guys he fought, Bobby Green, Chandler and Tony Ferguson, like he's fighting guys with losing records, which is true. You know, that is true. But it's still very impressive.

1:08:33What he did to Chandler in comparison to like what Olivera did, like Olivera was in real trouble in the third round of their last fight, real trouble and real trouble in the first round of their first fight. And Patty was never in trouble. Chandler was this close to having that belt in the first fight. This close in the first round, this close. And maybe just got, yeah, sure. Thank you. Maybe just got a little over zealous in that fight. Yeah, he was excited. I mean, I'll second round. Who wouldn't be? Yeah. But also Olivera is a master. Oh, he's so good. Well, that his fight against that, I think, Armand, right?

1:09:08Mm -hmm. Was so, so good. I was watching those guys fight and I'm just like, I've never seen two guys this crisp, good, technical, just never out of position hardly. And Charles almost caught him twice and two very close submission attempts. Looks like he was out at one time. He wasn't moving. Well, he got it. He was pretty locked in, but he wasn't out, but it was very close. Yeah, I'm very close to him. I think he should have won that fight. In my opinion, those positions where Charles had where you were that close to finishing a fight count for a lot. Yeah. And I think that's part of the problem with scoring system.

1:09:42It's one thing if you like go for a guillotine, the guy gets out of it immediately, you're on your back getting beat up. That submission attempt, that's not that much. When a guy has a fully locked in dars choke and you're almost out and you get saved by the belt, that should count for a lot. What's the best position for a dars? Because they were both kind of flat on the ground. Yeah, there's a bunch of different ways. You can catch a dars, but the way a dars works is like say if you have an underhook, which means your left arm is wrapped around my waist. What I want to do is shove my arm under your armpit so it pops out the side of your neck.

1:10:17Then I want to wrap my bicep around like this. So I lock my arm around one side of your neck and this and then I'm squeezing. So that's Tony Ferguson, he had a nasty, nasty dars. His Tony's dars was elite. Cause Tony has long, you see him catching it standing up there. Tony has long arms and he's strong as fuck and he's got like a great grappling base cause he started off as a wrestler. Oh, they're, yeah, see there's Charles. Is that Charles is up on top, the right there. Yeah, yeah, cause that's what I say. They're kind of laying both flat. I just didn't know what was best. Well, that's not ideal.

1:10:56Ideal is when you get the guy on his back and then you could lock like the Dustin Porje one where Islam has him. See how Dustin in the lower right hand corner. Yeah, that's it right there. So that's him against, go a little higher there. That's an auto -moicano. But one of the things you see about Islam, he's a very unique way of doing the dars is Islam grabs his own wrist like this to finish it. Whereas other guys go all the way down to the bicep. And the thing about grabbing the wrists like that that's really good is you can make it a little bit tighter in a situation where you can't, like some guys, they have too much bulk and maybe your arms are too short.

1:11:42You can't get the, like having long arms is really important for a dars. Like John Jones must have a wicked dars cause you can get the arms all the way through if they're long, then you can cinch it up. But Islam cinches it up actually by grabbing a hole of his wrist. And so it gives you extra space and the grip that he uses is incredibly tight. He's also insanely strong. Islam is insanely strong. Like he's got that sort of elite grappling strength that comes from decades of throwing human bodies around. There's a thing about that. Like here, his is Dmitrius Johnson says, I felt it, I know fucking Max Hall would just texted me.

1:12:24How strong is that dars? That's a sick dars. Islam is elite. He's elite when it comes to like strangling people. So it's Ilya Toporia. He's got a nasty dars too. How's it fighting? I don't know. Oh, that never got signed. This episode is brought to you by Zipper Cruder in a survey 76 % of employers plan to grow their teams in 2025. Now that we're halfway through the year, how are those hiring goals going? Have you filled all the rules? You wanted to or are you still looking? If you're struggling to find the right people or if you want a streamline, your hiring process going forward, try Zip Intro.

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1:15:14There's no safe, like SimplySafe. It's the word is, and this is only from the internet. This is not from Dana. And if he told me, he'd probably tell me not to tell anybody, so I won't tell you. But the word on the internet is that Ilya plans to fight in the June card, the big international fight we guard the other June. Whether or not it's for the title, he said he's only fighting for the title. That's what he said. Unless he said Conor McGregor, he said I'd fight Conor McGregor or the title. I think he's just fighting Conor McGregor because he knows the numbers would be fucking insane. Yeah. Millions of dollars.

1:15:49How, how, but it doesn't mean he's fighting Islam. Because Islam might decide I'm gonna go up to 170. Right. Yeah. Like here's what could happen, because Islam is talking about fighting 170. If Balal Mahamed, who's the current Walter Waite champion, who's gonna fight Jack Dela Madalena, which is only in like a couple of weeks, right? When is that, when is that one? Yeah, that's coming up. They might hold that announcement until that fight. So Islam and Balal were training partners. And apparently Kabib does not want Islam to fight Balal. But if Balal loses to Jack Dela Madalena, then it's a no -brainer.

1:16:29What, why doesn't he not want to fight him? Next Saturday? About this, but next. May 10th. Yeah, so it's real soon. So all they would have to do is hold off their announcement until May. I see. So if Balal wins, then there's an issue. Because Kabib does not want Islam, apparently, allegedly, apparently, doesn't want him fighting, because their brother is training together. Oh, okay. Oh, I see. But Islam's big. He easily could be fighting at 170. It's probably torture for him to get down to 155. Whenever I interview him, I'm like, how are you 155? This is so crazy. That will show rough weight cuts for him.

1:17:05It seems like. It's rough. He's big. He's probably 190 plus. Look at that. Boom. Oh, yeah, Islam says I'm going to submit you with that, because that's your thing. Islam says, or excuse me, Ilya says, that he's going to submit Islam with whatever his favorite move is. He's like, tell me your favorite choke. Tell me your favorite submission. That's what I'm going to submit you with. It's easy to say. That's an elite level and a lot bigger. Yeah, I was going to ask, how hard is it or who is the next star? Because we kind of saw this with Rhonda when she was coming out of the WIMM's division. It's like who is the next star going to be?

1:17:48Connor, still people are trying to call Connor out because they know of that money that's involved with it. How do we get that next superstar? Well, they have to win. It was Shukashan O'Malley could have had it if he beat Marab, but that's a nightmare matchup and he had a fucked up hip going into that fight, which is one of those things that UFC was putting on this big show with the sphere, which was insane. By the way, if they ever do one again, you got to go. Yeah, this fucking sphere's crazy. Yeah, I remember watching it. It's so crazy. It's like a total experience in and unto it. I need to go to a concert there.

1:18:26It's the most amazing venue I've ever seen in my life and there's not even a close second, like nothing's close. There's a really cool one in LA that just opened up that we did a LA card there a few months back. That was really good too, but it's like one tenth of the sphere. The sphere's nuts. Yeah, it's so nuts. It looked insane on TV. In the sound. The sound you feel it through your fucking bones. So it's wild. That was like last May 5th, wasn't it? I believe so. Yeah, sink it in my own. So for him to take that fight with a bad hip is crazy. And I know he did it because he thought he could win anyway because he's a champion and that's how champions think.

1:19:09Yeah, you have to. But with a bad hip when you're fighting a wrestler and you weren't wrestling at all in training because your hip's bad, that's crazy. That's like you got to get it fixed. Just get it fixed. Tell him it blew out and you can't walk, get it fixed. You got to think about the legacy in the future and taking a fight against a guy who's an elite grappler while you have a blown hip is kind of insane. If you can't grapple. Like it seems insane. Yeah, I mean, I think it's that mindset you just have to have that kind of can get you in trouble too. And you look at how good his take down defense was against Al Jermain Sterling.

1:19:47So Al Jermain Sterling in the first round tried to take Sean down. He could not take him down. And that was a big factor. Like Al Jermain was in trouble because if you can't take him down and Sean is a fucking sniper. He's a sniper and he knows how to find that chin man. He's got a pull right hand that's like from the textbooks and the one he would hit Al Jermain with, that's gonna be in that UFC when they play the who. When they play Bobo Riley, that'll be on that forever. That is such a clean right hand. It's such a pull back. And he and Al Jermain sought comment. Oh, you can see his face. Yeah, he's like, oh no, what am I done?

1:20:27I know. And I bet he thought he could do that to Mirab too and he might have been able to but Mirab is a different. Mirab's a different species of human. So again, same kind of guy. I know. Same kind of guy. So listen, I've had to, we've been kind of dealing with this with my kids and true and all this stuff he's been doing. But I think those fighters we're talking about, it just made me think of my kids. But when you start them at as kids, like the guys like Kabeeb, Dagestani, guys, Mirab, those guys have been training forever, right? Yep, for sure. Forever. Yeah, for sure. That has to give you, yeah, you have to have other abilities and talents and skills and this mindset.

1:21:13But when you start that early, by the way, Rocky Marciano didn't start boxing until he was 23. Okay, well, there he goes, my theory. And he know he had one of his amateur fights, he was exhausted. So he vowed to never be exhausted again. Yeah, he gasped out in a fight and he's like never again. So he just decided he was good. But it's also like, he was Italian from immigrant parents who barely could speak English. And those people who came over on the boat, they were a different species. They're a different species of hard workers. Those people were tough and they demanded so much. Joey Diaz, immigrant mentality.

1:21:55Immigrant mentality, Coxaka. Yeah, I mean, that's real. Immigrant mentality is a real thing. When you've come here from another country and you see how hard your family works and there's just like, there's no ifans or buts. I always tell the story about this guy that I used to train with that always used to make me feel lazy. My friend, Junksek, he was in his residency in medical school while he was on the US national team. So he was a national type window champion while he was going through medical school. So he was going to school 12 hours a day and still training. And he would put his books in his backpack and run stairs in between studying.

1:22:33That's how he'd get in shape sometimes. And then he would come to Jim exhausted and fuck everybody up. He was amazing. I remember thinking like, I'm so lazy. Like I thought, and I wasn't lazy. But like compared to that dude, I was lazy. Yeah, how I just, that's what fascinates me because you know, I've talked to Huberman about Courtney in this regard too. It's like willpower. Yeah. Like will, how? What gives somebody more willpower than another person? It's hard to say because according to Goggins, he forged that and he has more will than any human being that's ever walked the face of the planet.

1:23:11And he used to be a lazy fuck. He'll tell you, he'll tell you I was lazy. I was fat, it was 300 pounds. I drank milkshakes all day. Like he'll tell you. Like and then he decided that that's not him anymore. And then he decided it better than anybody who ever has. So it's not like he had some genetic gift of will. Yeah, that's not the case. He forged it. And this, you know, Huberman talks about this, whatever that part of your brain. Yeah. That you can grow. So is it that that anybody can develop this willpower? Well, I think Goggins proves that because he's again, he's the goat. He's the goat.

1:23:44When it comes to like will and people don't know what Goggins was doing with Izzy, Goggins has two destroyed knees. Okay, I had dinner with him in Vegas a few weeks back and he showed me like some recent X -rays of his knees because he got some fucking new thing in his knee to like to keep his bones from fucking smashing into each other some post that they put at the top of one of his knees because his cartilage is missing and his fucking meniscus is blown out and they saw the top of his bone and shifted it down and screwed it in place because his knee was all out of alignment because he would be running bone on bone so long that his bones were starting to just, it's like called wolf something syndrome.

1:24:27And his doctor said I've never seen it in a human being before. Like this is fucking insane. Like how are you walking on these knees? Forget about running thousands of miles. Yeah, but he does it, he just does it, right? And if that guy will tell you that he didn't have any willpower and then he was fat and lazy and then decided that he's not gonna be that anymore and then put himself through grueling, strengthening, finishing, became a Navy SEAL. Yeah. And then, look at, he's laughing. I love bringing him in, come on in. Let's see how much of a joke this is. And guess what? I've gotten this alone, alone.

1:25:07I ain't got no body. There's what a shit couch for. I ain't got nobody to push this love. That's my darkness. That's why I have to be my first victim. Fucking no me. You think you know me coming to my dungeon? It's a lonely dungeon because you're gonna do a shit alone. Every day, training this world by yourself. Come on man. And this is, you see me breathing heavy? Imagine the little black hole, too. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Somebody call the police. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Good stuff, too. I mean, how did you not inspire that? Look, he is psycho. I love it. He is psycho. I love it. Yeah, I did. I said, we joke around about, you know, because he says it's so easy to be great nowadays because everybody else is weak.

1:25:48That's what Dawkins says, right? Interesting. And it's like, when you talk about, yeah, we talk about generations. And you've mentioned it a million times. Good times creates off all that whole thing. But I said, well, we got one. We got true it. So we got one kid who's still getting a dime. Well, your son learned from you. I mean, that's a great example of, you know, he's grew up in an environment where his father was regularly running these 100 mile races and regularly running 13 miles in the morning before work. Like you were doing all that stuff and you were setting the example. I was going to show you something.

1:26:23And then he sees how far it takes you in life. Yeah. You've gotten here by just force of will. Yeah. And when I, true, sent me this today. So this is his first half marathon. Can you see that? Oh, wow. He's a little kid. Wow. He's still ran eight minute miles in that. That's incredible. That's a little kid. But anyway, that's like, that's what I was saying about when you start that early with stuff like that. You get used to it. Yeah. But then again, Dawkins, you know, you tell you different or Rocky Marciana will tell you different. Like you didn't, I don't think there's a hard fast rule. Look at that.

1:27:03Look at you guys. Oh, that was his first marathon. That's so cute. Yeah. There's no hard fast rules. Like yes, it's definitely beneficial. Well, as far as skilled development, this is what I've always said about striking in particular. There's something about learning striking while your body is maturing and your young is way better than learning striking once you're an adult. Because you said that with your kick. Yeah. Because your body was changing as you develop that kick. Exactly. Exactly. I was kicking in all kicks. You know, it's not like that's the only one that I'm really elite at. I, you know, I learned how to kick when I was a little gangly little kid.

1:27:46And I learned like, and that my body grew strong. My tendons grew strong from hitting this 150 pound heavy bag every day. Like as a little kid, there's whop, whop, whop. And I basically lived in the gym. So I was kicking that bag hours every day. I was just constantly setting it up and training. I was constantly setting up moves until I got them like, where it's like instinctive. Like I didn't even know it was happening before it happened. Like when I was in a fight, it would just come out. Like when you see the opening, you don't even see it. You're just moving. It's like it all goes into the instinct.

1:28:19And the only way that happens is just insane hours, insane hours, constant dedication. But as your body was growing, and you're putting that, the stressors on it, and those movements on it, your body adapted essentially. So it's like, if you're already mature, your body wouldn't have adapted the same as it did, because you're doing it at the perfect age. You can get really good if you're a really good athlete, and you pick up striking later in life, but you're not going to get Floyd May with it could. I don't think I've never seen it. Rocky Marciano even wasn't Floyd Mayweather level. He was just a mauler.

1:28:56He was just, and he would never stop. And he couldn't hurt him. He couldn't hurt him. His endurance was insane. The volume was insane. He would just make guys rethink their whole lives, because he'd be like, what the fuck man? Like fuck that guy. That guy's out there. I don't want that. You know, like he just never stopped. But he wasn't like Floyd was a master. He was a master in there. He would stand right in front of you, and you couldn't hit him. Stand, stood right in front of Canelo Alvarez, and Canelo couldn't do shit with him. And Canelo Alvarez, a world champion, one of the best ever. He couldn't do shit with Floyd.

1:29:34Yeah, I mean, do you think that would be less intimidating, fighting somebody like that, because he didn't have that power, like the knockout power? And he also had brittle hands. So Floyd's broken his hands multiple times. You knew you weren't going to just going to get... Mald. You wouldn't get Mugabi. Right. Right. You're not going to be able to hit him, and it's going to suck, and be frustrating. But... But he wasn't hit like Hagler. You're not going to be able to pull blood. Right, right, right. He's not going to beat you down and stop you. The thing about Hagler was, like Hagler didn't mind getting hit, because his chin was iron.

1:30:06He didn't mind, and he wanted to smile at you when you hit him. One of the things he said about Mugabi after the fight, they said it seemed like Mugabi caught you with a big shot. He goes, oh yeah, I'd like when that stuff happens. I like a good fight. This is what he said after he knocked him out. And like when the ring announcer was saying, the winner, and still, the undisputed Mid -Awake Champ of the World, Hagler's like saying it out loud to himself. The undisputed Mid -Awake Champ of the World. And that's the guy that just went through hell for months in the snow at the Cape Cod. And then he just beats the scariest fucking guy in the division, and at that point in time, this was before the Leonard fight, he was talking about retiring.

1:30:44And you'd have to know if you were a fighter in his division, or potentially gonna fight him, and you saw that after a war, and then you see him acting like that, you're probably just like, bro, when he knocked out Mugabi, it was an outdoor fight, and steam was coming off of his head. Oh, I could, yeah. Like at the end of the fight, it's even go to the end of the fight, when Mugabi drops, and they raise his hand, and he's celebrating, as he's celebrating, and walking around, steam is coming off of his head. He was a monster. Those, I don't know, I'm addicted to these fucking video viral clips, because so now I got two of them, you just reminded me of.

1:31:23There's one, have you ever heard of Badwater? It's called Badwater 135, I think, but it's a race in Death Valley. Yes. Okay, so Goggins did that, and it gets like 130 degrees, where you have to, because it's on the highway through Death Valley, so you have to run like on the white line, so your shoes don't melt. Oh my God. And you wear kind of all white, because it's so hot, but it gets 130 degrees. So Goggins, his first time doing that, and he's got, you know, his physical issues, like always, but he finishes, he gets third place, I believe. They come up to him, and they're like, so what was, what was like out there?

1:31:59How is the heat? And he just was like, sitting there, just sitting in his chair, like, this, and he looks at the camera, and he's like, didn't notice. Yes. Didn't notice, it was 130 degrees. That one is just, I love that one. That's, that's real. What do you got there? What was that, Jimmy?

1:32:22Goggins is described as one of the toughest men on the planet. There's only man in history to complete a real training. What, why is this, that's terrible. Why do they have music so much louder than they do? I hate that. I hate that. So there's, there's, there's, didn't even notice it. Yeah, there's that one. Uh, it is the, here's a Hagel one. Okay. Look at the steam. See a steam coming off his head. Look at that. That's so insane. Fucking steam. What is it about just people being shredded, and just weapons? Well, it's just inspirational. Man, it makes you want to go to the gym. I mean, when I see Goggins making Izzy Puk and break, it makes me want to work out.

1:33:04I mean, when I talk to you, it makes me want to work out. When I know that you're out there running 13 miles, when you were, when you had your full -time job, boy, I try to talk you out of that for so long. Oh, you did. You did. It's, it's crazy. I try to talk you out of that job for years. I was like, dude, you're wasting money being there. I know you think it's a good job, but you're wasting money. But the point is, yeah, you were working out so much while you had a full -time job. I mean, most people just don't have that kind of willpower. And when someone does, it's like super inspirational to everybody else.

1:33:37We feed off each other. Humans feed off of each other. When I see a guy like Goggins, or I watch a Hagler video of him training, it's just fuel, man. It's just, to me, it just pumps my blood up. I'm like, ah! I just want to go hit the bag, man. I want to go work out like right now. Like, I see that, and, but that's, I've always used that as fuel. As a positive. Always read autobiographies of about fighters and watch videos and watch them talk. And just, to me, it's always been, it's like, would just throw it on the fire. It's more fuel. Like, woo! Without, I mean, this is the craziest thing about Goggins.

1:34:18Like, he ain't got nobody doing that for him. It's all in his own fucked -up head. Ha -ha -ha. Yeah, there's another clip where this guy, they're doing, you know, they do these big events, speaking events. And so he was sitting there, and the guy's, the guy's like, interviewing him. He's like, so you run for hours and hours, don't you? And he just looked, again, looks at him, just like, he's got masters this delivery, but he just looks at him. He's just like, out, you know, something like, hours, days. He runs for days and days. So, not hours. What are you talking about, fucking hours, days? Yeah, what did he do, like, 99, 100 miles?

1:34:57How many 100 miles has he done in his life? Oh, he had the world record. He did eight 100 mile races, or like, eight consecutive weekends. So, it was something like that, which normally, you know, you do 100 miles, you're banged up for a while. I would imagine. 100 miles is a lot. So, he's doing them, I think it was eight consecutive weekends. Yeah, most people came to me to eight marathons. Oh, God damn. Eight marathons? Yeah. Did you ever see Eddie Ift? No. Or excuse me, Eddie Izzard. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Shout out to Eddie Ift. Eddie Izzard, the comedian from the UK who likes to wear women's clothes.

1:35:38He did this thing in, sometimes in the 2000s, where he ran a marathon every day, and he had no training. He wasn't in shape at all. He just did it through sheer will. Yeah. And I think he did it like 29 days in a row. Like something insane like that. He did it twice. He did it twice. Okay, he's completed 43 marathons in 51 days. That's in 2009. Oh, it says she. See, the thing about calling him she is he doesn't call himself she. He still refers to himself as Eddie. And he says, I'm a he, and I like ladies. I don't know why they're saying she, unless he's changed things since, or she's changed, well, whatever, either way, respect.

1:36:25Super cool person too. Yeah. Done two podcasts with him, her, the them, whatever the fuck it is. I love him to death. But one of them while he was on a treadmill. Like, yeah, he was at the time. So I was a lot of say he, at the time, I'm glad you're getting this all worked out. Because when I want to tell these stories, I got to figure out. This episode is brought to you by Tacovas. You can't have a good time in bad boots. That's why you need Tacovas. Tacovas crafts quality Western boots for everyone. From generational ranchers and lifelong cowboys to first time boot buyers, each boot is handcrafted with over 200 meticulous steps for broken in comfort right out of the box.

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1:38:37When he was he and she and... I think I did his podcast. And he was doing podcasts while he was on a treadmill. And he was running like hundreds of miles. He's like, you know, but just through force of will. Completed, oh, it's her latest endurance. Look at that, Eddie Isard completes her late. Like what are we doing? This time 32 marathons and 31 days. Wow. Yeah. It's a... It's so kooky. It is. Well. But I mean, that's really impressive too, because this is a person that's not in shape. Like when they started doing it, when he started doing the first marathon when he ran all around the UK and ran like a marathon a day, there's a documentary about it.

1:39:21And the documentary is pretty incredible because he's not in shape at all. And he's just breaking himself down and his feet are falling apart. I bet. It's like the bottom of his feet are just raw. It's just blood and tissues and they've got gauze wrapped in between the toes. It's oozing. I mean, they're just destroyed. I bet. One day you had to take a day off. Because that's bad. You think about it, because that was one of the questions I did this podcast about this coconut race coming up and they said, you know, how many steps do you think it would take to finish a race? So, and that just reminds me of, so if it's 250 miles, it's my guess was it's generally about 2 ,000 steps a mile, so 500 ,000 steps.

1:40:03But point is, is 500 ,000 steps on your feet. That's going to cost some damage. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? So part of this training for big multi -day ultra is time on feet. Like, because I was injured, I couldn't train like I normally train. So I'm like, okay, I'm just going to go out and spend time on my feet. And so I did last week 150 miles, which was 22 miles a day. But I couldn't run because I've been injured. So it was like I was power hiking and kind of a slowed run. So it took fucking forever, but I'm just like, time on my feet. So I was out there to do that. I was 37 hours of training.

1:40:44So your full must be getting worse if that's the case. If you could, it was my hamstring. Oh. Yeah. So my, because I was in like the best shape I've ever been in was supposed, I was going to go to Boston and get my best marathon time. Everything was tracking. Could me in true or training running hard. He's just like, I'm on one of his videos. He's like, my goal is to get in the two 30s for the marathon for him. And he's like, but actually, I think that should be your goal because I can't keep up with you. I was running so good and then took the hamstring. So now if I try to open up and run like a six minute mile, it kind of re aggravates it.

1:41:20So I've been trying to be patient, not push up, but I needed time on my feet was my point. Because just as Eddie illustrated in that, if your feet aren't toughened up, that's your contact point. And that's why you run with no socks on it. Yeah, right. You want them to get kind of like a breeze. But still, it's still it's like that so many steps on your body. So there's, there's joints like, there's this great documentary that just came out on last year's coconut 250. And it's called the chase because they, they went with four, like four guys. Is there already another chase? Yeah. And it's really good.

1:41:57But the four guys they follow here, bro, that looks like hell. Yeah, all those people in hell together. Yeah, so that's, that's, yeah, photographer there. That's Mike McKnight right there. All these legends of 200s. I saw someone climbing a mountain here. What is that? What is that? Is that part of it? Should the fuck up? Is that part of it? That's in the same country, but that's just one of the key runners. That's what he does during his runs. What? Yeah. During his runs. Yeah. Take a little break. He climbed all the way. He climbs in the, in the film, he climbs this whole fucking thing to the top.

1:42:38Oh my God. And so this people that are different. Yeah, they, but the point is, is like, that's the guy who he's climbing right there. What an animal. Yeah, these guys are just studs. But the, but here's the thing. So they had these guys, Jeff Browning right there legend. He's one like 300 mile races. That's Joe Stringbean, McConaughey. What's the guy's name that Clamps? That's Michael Verstage. Is his name, I think it'll probably show, there's, there's McKnight. So it'll show him coming up right there. There he is. Oh, he looks like a psycho. No, he's just, he just, that's, that's, it's gonna get dead eyes.

1:43:16To me, that's ultra run, like the dirt bag ultra runner. That's what I love about it. Right. I love guys like that. This guy is like, I don't know if he's all much or whatever, he's from Ohio. Doesn't even live around mounds, just a freak. So you get these, these people out there to race this 250 miles. You don't know what the hell's gonna happen. Every person they just showed there did not win. Wow. A guy who they didn't show one, because so much crazy things can happen to your body. And you don't, you cannot predict. 17 year old just finished 12th. That's crazy. That's crazy. I didn't, I didn't know that.

1:44:01That's impressive. That's impressive. That kind of will for a 17 year old. For sure. Oh my God, that kid's gonna be unstoppable. So that goes to show you, like, there are hard people out there. Still, even in these soft ass times. Yeah, there's hard people out there. There is. Yeah. Like that, I think they showed they'd done the Thruhuyhuyk on the Arizona Trail as a family. That kid who'd done it, and that was 800 miles as the Arizona Trail. So a Thruhuyk is basically just on the trail, just as long as it takes. But that makes you tough. Oh yeah. Every day on your feet. That's the thing. It's like in that movie, these guys are just battling back and forth, passing each other, keeping track, because you have the GPS tracker.

1:44:42You remember when me and Courtney did my lab. Mm -hmm. So people get addicted to this tracking. Right, right. You know, my brother just did, so like a month ago, or maybe three weeks ago, it's called Arizona Monster 300. A 300 mile race, my brother just got second. Wow. I was just tracking nonstop. That's incredible. It's so fun. 300 mile race, and he got second. How much did the guy who won beat him by? Two hours. Jesus Christ. So he, guy who won, got 86 hours, Taylor got 88. Ah. That's so nuts. 88 hours is so crazy. Slap for four. Ah. And that is so crazy. How long did it take him to recover?

1:45:26Three and a half days. I mean, oh, it's probably, I'm sure he's not recovered. Ever. It's been a few weeks. I mean, so nuts. What I've said before is like, those races, I mean, exercising is good. That's good for you. Those, not good. Those aren't making you live longer. No. Pushing your body that hard. No, I can't. I mean, it's like you're on death's door. Yeah. I mean, you can only run for so long for eventually everything just breaks. The cool part is Courtney's doing this one. Oh, nice. She's back to the 200. She's a fucking animal, dude. Yeah. And you'd never guess. Eat candy. All silly. Easy to talk to.

1:46:06Real fun. But somewhere in that brain, there's some darkness. I don't know. She can call upon. I've been trying to find it. You know, she came out. We did, I just released it on my YouTube, but we did three hours or three days. We did a hundred miles. She's eating McDonald's French fries. So this is it. I know I had trays bring us McDonald's. Can we, we stayed at Pisco for 12 hours and did 15 summits, 50 miles, just up and down. Look at it, just chilling, eating fries. Looks like an Instagram influencer. Yeah. You know, she does. It looks like some psychopath that can run that far. No. So, yeah, we did this three days, a hundred miles, and we did this.

1:46:46This is McDonald's commercial. Not basically. You're fries stuffed in your pockets. I know. The perfect fuel. Seed oils for runners. We need cat. You need calories and salt. There's my brother right there, Taylor. That's who got third. Incredible. So this is his race. But yeah, the point is, it's like we went, so three days. And I'm, you know, this 41 miles down this day, you get to the last day, and I'm fucking beat up, dude. She never, never got tired. And I'm like, she can do her, her little run at this like a nine minute mile pace forever. That's so crazy. And I just don't, that's where I'm like, this willpower, how does it work?

1:47:31Well, she famously went blind. Yeah. And kept running and fell and cracked her fucking head and got up and kept running. And one. And one. Yeah, she's a maniac. But it's like, it's not like this angry Gogans, like who's gonna carry the boats? Like a different kind of mental strength. She's got her own thing, her own formula. Yeah, I don't know if I told you this, but, so I was talking to her about, when you get in these old terraces, I mean, it's pain is what mostly stops you. Right? It just hurts so bad to run. So I said, she talks about the pain cave. Like so she goes into the pain cave. And that's, you know, she welcomes it.

1:48:13She's not shying away from the pain. And I said, I go, okay. So in the, what do you mean? You're just like embracing the pain. She's like, no, I'm working in there. And so she's explaining, she's got this chisel. And she's hitting the chisel with a hammer. And I said, I said, so you're not thinking about running? She's like, no, she's thinking about hitting the chisel and she goes rocks falling down and piling up. And I said, so you're thinking about that, not running. She's not not running at all. She's thinking about working. So she makes her brain think about making this cave bigger. And I'm like, so I said, is there like furniture and shit in the cave?

1:48:56She's like, no, I said Play Does Cave. I said, but is it, I said, is it the same cave every time, every race? She says, yeah. And I go, but I said, do you have like a extra, like a wing for one specific race? Is it you work on this wing of the cave? She's like, yeah, sometimes. So she's in this cave, thinking about chiseling rock. That's what cave larger. Making the cave larger and just expanding the pain cave. And I was just like, I was blowing awake. And she goes, I feel like I need to stop talking about this because I'm all right. Talk the crazier. I can't think you have to be crazy to be great.

1:49:42Yeah, I don't think it comes to a normal person. I don't, I think there's got to be something going on. I mean, for her, it's the pain cave. You know, for Goggins, it's who's going to carry the boats. You don't know me, son, like whatever it is. Like you got to be crazy. And you have to decide, like if you want to be Courtney in a 200 mile race, you got to decide for years, for years, you have to chase that. You're not going to do it tomorrow. It's not going to happen. Like you're going to have to build up for years to be able to do that. And she's going to be building up along the way too. And so you probably never catch her.

1:50:16I don't know. She looks, you know, she's 40 now. Looks like better than she's ever looked as far as like performance. You know, she's, I think she's done one race this year, won it, broke the course record. And now she's got this one coming up. So I don't know. When she won the Moab, she won the Moab 240, right? 240, yeah. How far away was she from the second place person? It's like eight or 10 hours. And I asked her about that too, because, because even that, so if you said, you got, you're up by hours. Right. You just kind of, yeah, she pushed the whole time. So that's what I, that's what I, I am fascinated and I just want to know why.

1:51:00Right. How? What did she say? She just wants to do the best she can. She just wants to see what, she said she's never racing anybody else. It's always just how hard could she push herself? That's interesting, because that kind of eliminates the ego. Yeah. Because instead of battling with your ego, you're just trying to do your best all the time. Your best. You're not racing against anybody else. You're just trying to do your best. A lot of people say that. Right. A lot of people say that. I think she truly believes it. Right. I believe it, she believes it too. And if you can just compete against yourself, like again, back to Goggins, he's not doing it for anything.

1:51:41Right. There's not a thing that he's got going on. No race coming up. No, a lot of people have to have a goal to work towards. He told me he's downloading information. Yeah, what is, I don't know what that means. That's his own pain cave. Yeah. He's downloading knowledge. So he's still trying to get better. Is what it sounds like to me. He's trying to figure out like, he's developing his mind to be this unstoppable force, which it clearly is. It's as close to an unstoppable force as I've ever seen, especially when you consider the damage. If you go back to that Izzy video, let's look at his stride.

1:52:18Because here's the thing about Goggins. One of the things you see in his stride is if you look at his knees, he's got giant scars up both of his knees. His knees are way more fucked up than mine and I don't run. Because my knees are fucked up. You did a 5K. I did once. I'm trading it all. But the scars are extraordinary. And we see them in real life. It's even scarier. And his form is weird. But if you go to the YouTube video, freestyle, Bender, YouTube. Yeah, I want to see it. Okay, Izzy put the whole thing up. And when you see him running, I mean, his pace is great, but it's weird, like the way he's running.

1:53:02Because his knees are destroyed. Yeah, and I think that that's just kind of evolved or devolved to whatever you want to say at overtime. He's just doing what he has to do. You know what I mean? Yeah, if you scoot your head a little bit, this is the big, so here it is, him running. There's a profile that shows the big. Yeah, there's a sideways profile. But even then, it looks kind of odd. Like Izzy looks sort of loose and relax. His legs straight now. David's legs never straighten out. They always have a bend to them at every step. You know, like when you see him sideways, you really get a chance to see it.

1:53:35Yeah. There's one part we see him run. There it is, there it is right there. So look, see how he's kind of, that's odd, right? Like you're a runner, you tell me. That's kind of odd, right? Well, I just don't know. He might be just trying to stay with Izzy because Izzy's going to his slower pace, which maybe if he was like, maybe if David was opened up it'd be more extended, I'm not sure. It's hard to say. Cause Izzy's obviously struggling there. And also they are going uphill when this is happening. Yeah, so I think David, it could be tweaking his form a little bit. But I mean, he must be an agony.

1:54:12There's no way he's not an agony. If you know the extent of the damage that he has on his knees. And if you've seen the X -rays, we've showed him on the podcast before, well, all the fucking screws and shit, they saw the top of his femur off or his tibia off and shifted it to make it flat again. Like, no. Yeah, he showed me some crazy photos too of like his body reacting just insanely to some of what he's been put in a through. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Well, he has to stretch. He told me he stretches for two and a half hours every night. Yeah. Just stretches. And that's changed a lot for him too.

1:54:47When you look at him and Izzy running, I mean, David's 50. Mm -hmm. They don't look that much different as far as, like, physically looks insane. Yeah. And again, he's not breathing heavy at all. Yeah. And that was one of multiple workouts he does in a day. But it would break most human beings. I think Izzy posted that that was David does three of those workouts a day. That's so crazy. Yeah. And he keeps going by himself. That's why I love him. All alone. Yeah. I mean, there's real boogie men out there, right? And with David, this is all for his own personal growth or what he likes called downloading knowledge, whatever he's doing.

1:55:28It's that's for him. It's his own battle that he does. But just to know that there's a guy like that out there, it pushes everybody else too. Like David existing in this soft ass world that we live in today raises the bar for literally everyone on earth. That's everyone who hears about him knows that there's a standard above in which they have ever pushed themselves. Right. Above and beyond. And that's Marvin Hagler and that's Rocky Marciano. There's this people like that's Kabeb. There's champions. And what people do is they cultivate their own little world without those people. Oh, yeah. They're like, I don't know if I've heard you.

1:56:10I think you like, you don't like knowing about certain men. Don't like knowing that there's people like that out there. Yeah, there's like, fuck. They don't like being held to a standard that they can't match. Like they don't like being confronted by the eyes cheating, always doing this. He's probably on peptides. There's some fucking excuse. There's not a peptide in the world that makes you work out six hours a day. It doesn't exist. No, it doesn't exist. Yeah, I think that I mean, you have to be a crazy person. And you have to be willing to get yourself into that place, that crazy place. What was super cool is when Tru was going after the pull ups, Goggins was checking in and he was like, all in like, you got to, okay, tell him to do this, tell him to do this.

1:56:55He's like, okay, write this down. Call me back. I mean, he was so into it. Yeah, he's a man. He's the man. I love him, death. And I think he does a great service to the world, even though he's doing it all in silence, he's doing it all alone. You get glimpses of it. You get enough to know, and especially that video where you see him with Izzy, like, oh, this is real. This isn't a mythical person. You know, this isn't the gray man. This is a real human being. Like holy shit, man. Like there's people out there that are just working harder than everybody else, and they're gonna keep doing it. And that's their grind.

1:57:34And those people are super valuable. Those people are so valuable. The Marvin Haggers of the world, the Rocky Marcianos of the world, like those are very, very valuable people. Yeah. Because they change everybody's perspective of like what's possible, what to strive for, and what it takes. Like do you really wanna be a champion? Why? Because you just wanna be cool. You wanna be the coolest guy in the block? Like you're not gonna win. You're gonna find some fucking psychopath who just lives it. It's their whole life. And if it's not your whole life, get out. Get out. It's a, there's another quote that I love, something like, there's somebody out there training every day.

1:58:15And when you meet, they will win. Yeah. I mean, that's just the fact. Most people don't wanna think about those type of people. They like think that they're like, oh yeah, I'm working my ass off. I'm doing more than anybody. They're ignoring a few people. Yeah. You don't work more than anybody. That's not real. There's no way you do. There's one guy who lives in Vegas. He's my friend. I would tell you, I would introduce you to him and you just get nervous just being around him. Yeah, he's on a different level. He's the man. And that level that he's on, like this thing that he's doing, it's good for all of us.

1:58:53It just, people don't like it because they feel weak. Like I've compared myself to him like, Jesus Christ, I don't know how they're kind of well. But if I was a type of person that all I was was my hard work and my will, I would look at him and I would feel inferior. And people do not like that. And there's a lot of bitch ass men out there that don't like it when guys are working harder than them. And they try to bring those people down. David takes all those fucking people and then he writes all the shit that they said down and then he records it and listens while he's running. Yeah. Like he's one of one.

1:59:31Well, you better shut the fuck up. You're just gonna make a meaner. Yeah. He's gonna make him crazy. I love that. What's that? The challenge nowadays is who's real and who isn't? Right. Because there's people that say things just like David says, but they're not really doing it that well. They're not doing it that well. They're not him. No, they're not him. It's an act. It gives them this social currency in today's world. So that's the hard part is like who's real, who isn't? And they might be working harder than most people, not everybody. Even not everybody. No, there's people out there that are just, and you can't, you know, you can't.

2:00:10Because there's not only so many hours in a day, and there's only so much time you can do. Yeah. You know, I've never done anything like that before. But what I did do when we had that sober October challenge with Tom and Burton Ari is I went kind of crazy and lost my mind. I was doing seven hours a cardio a day because I wanted Bert, Chris, to die. Because Bert really thought he was gonna win. So I watched John Wick like 50 times in a row. Did you do seven a day? Oh, yeah, I was doing seven hours a day. Yeah, I was, I was trying to kill him. It was literally trying to kill him. I was running hills.

2:00:44He would have died. Then he dies. I was like, he's talking shit. He was talking shit. He was like, that's Bert. Like Bert will tell you he can do the splits. I'm like, okay, do the splits. Yeah. He can't do the splits. Like he'll tell you he could beat you and push up. So okay, he can't beat you and push up. But he'll always say it, which is fine. But there was something about that competition where we're all kind of going crazy. We all decided to never do that again. Because at the end of the month, I was like, it was bad for your family, bad for your kids, never saw me. I was like, daddy's fucking screaming in the gym all day.

2:01:16I set off the fire alarm. Cause I sweat so much in the gym that the fire alarm went off. That's pushing it. Puddles around me. Puddles. That's just puddles. I was just drinking water and soda. I was drinking like, like cream sodas. Cause I needed sugar. Yeah, I just felt that's what I wanted. I wanted soda. I was drinking like sugary sodas and just running like a fucking maniac. And at the end of it, I was like, I can't do it. That's a part of my brain I don't like. That part was like the part that made me very good at fighting. And it like ignited again. And I was like, whoo, it's still in there.

2:01:54Like Jesus. It's been a while and it's still there. It's been a while. It kind of got stronger. It was like more like wanted to stay back. You know, it's like you want to start doing other things. You want to start running and doing races and start like, Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, you're busy. Yeah, let's not get crazy. Do you think it's, do you think it's the measure balls that have changed things like because, Sure, because our watch is tell us everything. Right. So you get those numbers. You want those numbers to go up. Yeah, they say that that's the thing like with like those fit bits and all these different wearables.

2:02:30Like people say that they, they're, people are getting addicted to those the same where they're getting addicted to social media. So we were doing everything through the MyZones chest strap. It's a heart rate monitor. And it was basically giving you a certain amount of points for having your heart rate above like 140 and then even more points if it gets above like 180, like when you're in the red. And so you would just try to clock as many points as you could for a day. And had to, so you had to push hard to get those points. Exactly. Yeah, you have to be, you know, you're in the yellow, like the 140s for hours and hours.

2:03:09Yeah, here's my heart rate is so low. If me and Tru going on a run, we did a 20 mile run here a few months ago. His was in the 20 mile run, we ran like 618s. His is 157 and mine was 139 or 140. So I have a hard time getting my heart high. That's crazy. Well, that's insane fitness. I'd like to see what David says. Yeah, like, but he ain't wearing no fucking heart rate monitor. That's not his style. But yeah, so when you talked about that, your heart rate had to be high to get these points. I'd be like, I'd be fucked. Well, Brigham says that he competes with Tim Kennedy and he's like, Tim Kennedy doesn't even know I'm competing with him.

2:03:49As you can find, because Tim Kennedy's wearable numbers are posted on the MyZones thing. Like that's the thing about MyZones. It was interesting is like you could compete with him. And even when we were doing sober October and we were like torturing ourselves, we still weren't in the top 10 in the country. There were still people out there for no fucking reason other than being a psycho. People you've never heard of and Nebraska somewhere wherever that are working hard to the nuts. And they're not even competing for anything. This is just what they do. And they're putting in crazier numbers than we were.

2:04:21And they probably do it every month. Yeah, that's nuts. That is nuts. Yeah, so Tim Kennedy's one of those. He's always posting these crazy numbers and Brigham tries to compete with him and when he finds Tim's numbers, that's why he spends two hours a day in doing Muay Thai. He's competing with these numbers. Oh, I see. See, Strava's sort of like that. Runners use Strava. I'm not on it, but that gets posted publicly. So everybody can see the pace, the climb, the hours. Well, if you're competitive, it's great for everybody. Because it just raises that bar. Imagine if you could see Rocky Marciano Strava numbers in 1951, people were like, what the fuck?

2:05:03I know, I would love that. Everybody else would be like, well, that was the thing with the Hagler and Mugabi fight. Like Marvin broke him. He couldn't keep up with Marvin. Marvin kept hitting him, ripping to the body, slowly but surely breaking him down. But his endurance was just so strong. At the end, Mugabi was just like a sh - he was wobbly. Like you see when guys like, when you see in a fight in MMA, you see it a lot. Their technique doesn't look crisp anymore. Their head's moving too much. Their core's not stable. They're constantly re -correcting. They're not like rock. When the beginning of the fight, everybody is rock solid.

2:05:39Everybody's moving. And at the end, there's like a laxity to the movement. You see the fatigue set in. This is like these tell -tale things. And Marvin didn't have that. There was no laxity. It's like those storms coming. Like you know - Being across from somebody like that. Terrible. Just be the worst. They never get tired. Yeah. There's a famous moment in when Kabib fought Edson Barbosa where Edson has this thousand yard stare. Because Kabib took him down again and he's beating him up and you realize like Edson's like, this is never gonna end. Cannot get out of this. I'm never gonna get this guy off me.

2:06:15I can't stop him from taking me down and he's just mulling me. Every time he takes me down, he's just punching my fucking face in. And that's how Connor felt when he was fighting Kabib too. At the end, he's just like tapped like fuck it. It's over. Yeah, I mean, it's got that fatigue makes Howard's of us all. It's real. It's got to be the most accurate quote of all time. And the only way to develop that kind of endurance is through insane work. Insane work. Just insane volume. And then constant consistency, constant volume, discipline, intensity, never ending, go, go, go, go. Where your body just has to keep up.

2:06:59Yeah. Or it doesn't and it breaks. And then eventually you get like, came Velasquez towards the end of his career. His shoulders were getting fucked up. His knee was fucked up. His back was fucked up. After a while, he was too mentally tough for his own physical form. His body just couldn't tolerate it anymore. Yeah, I wonder what the limit is nowadays because we talk about back then and we talk about how it's changed because you said something, talking about I think Sonny Liston talking about when he was 38, that was different, 38 than now. Do you do it, Joe Lewis? Yeah, he's Joe Lewis. Oh, okay.

2:07:36So nowadays, what is, what are people capable of? Because when you talk about the nutrition, the science, though, you know, it's, who knows? Because you said, you said something like your body will break if you push this certain amount or. Yeah. I think there's a difference between endurance activities and combat sports. And there's something about combat sports that it's fractions of a second you miss. So there's only been a very few fighters that fight at an elite level, deeper than their 40s. The best example is Bernard Hopkins. Bernard Hopkins fought at a world championship level when he was 48, 49 years old.

2:08:21He was different because he was first of all very intelligent, never got out of shape, never cheated on his diet, never partied, never drank, never smoked, never got fat, always trained, always in shape, and also very intelligent with his boxing, super defensively responsible. Never, he didn't fight like Hagler, we just weighed himself in the fire, try to break guys. Bernard was using like clever boxing and really good defense. Defense was number one. You didn't have to like his fights, you didn't like some of them in the beginning, people thought it was boring because he would hold on to guys and he wouldn't let the guys hit him, then he'd, but he won fights and he didn't take a lot of damage.

2:09:03And so he was able to do it deep in their 40s. But most people, by the time you're 37, that's usually when the wheels start to fall off if you're natural, if you're natural. The thing about today is with boxing, especially in the off season, no one can stop you from doing peptides and growth hormone and testosterone replacement. No one can stop you. As long as you're not getting Vada tested, and that usually generally they do that during camp, and as long as you're not getting randomly tested, like you saw how they used to do with UFC, where they just show up at your door, if you just get weighed in and then the State Athletic Commission drug test, you're like in Vada, that's an intelligence test.

2:09:48You know, that's how certain guys were able to maintain their power going up in weight class, multiple divisions. For sure there's some Mexican supplements involved in that. For sure. And then that's different. So if you're doing peptides and hormone replacement and all that, then you're extending your athletic career deep, deep, deep into your 30s, maybe even into your 40s. But combat sports are just a different animal. Yeah. It's different than just running. Like you're getting hit. And like your ability to hit back is based on your ability to absorb punishment. And you can only have so many times that ticket can get punched before your chin goes, before you can't take it anymore.

2:10:33Yeah. So it's like for fighters, it's very rare that a guy can perform at the highest level in the late 30s. And Randy Cotor, he did it. He didn't even start his career until I think he was 34, 35. Yeah. He was an MMA fighter. Yeah. No, he went late, beat 10 Sylvia. In his 40s. Yeah. Yeah. So what's your training like nowadays? Because you're shredded. I'm doing a lot of kettlebells still always. You know, I'm doing that regularly. I'm doing a lot of rocking too. Get ready for elk season. I've been doing a lot of walk hills. There's a big hill in my yard that I like to walk to with the farmer's carries and shit.

2:11:17Yeah. Like done. This is that Tom Havalan guy that I've been following a lot from Australia. And I'm like one of the things that he does, like he carries stuff and wants to carry heavy shit and walk around the gym with it. There you go. I think there's something to that man, really like for overall strength. Yeah. But I've been doing no staying with a lot of the body weight stuff that I do. I do a lot of that stuff with a weighted vest too. A lot of chin ups and dips and pull ups and elbows, elbow pull ups. You know, when you do it, like you hold the tight legs out. And lift legs out. Yeah. I'm doing a lot of those leg lifts too.

2:11:50We're hanging and just with a straight body and then lift your legs, you know, hinge at the hips, lift your toes all the way up to the top of the bar and then slowly drop them down and up and that. Doing a lot of that too. And just mixing that up with bag work and all the different, different things that I always like to do. But I've been super consistent. I've been real consistent. Gonna be ready for elk season. Oh, fuck yeah. I'm excited. I'm already excited. How many elk hunts? I have two. One with you and one with Evan. You know, that's generally what I do. But I have a lot of opportunities around Texas for pig hunts, which is nice.

2:12:29Because people are begging you to hunt pigs. Yeah. Because they're tearing up the land here. They just get, you know, like I got a text from a friend of mine the other day who's a movie producer. And he's like, please come to my ranch and kill some of these pigs. They're just everywhere. Sounds fun. Yeah, because they're, they have to kill them. I mean, there's, there's millions of them in Texas and I'm not exaggerating. Oh, and they're, yeah, they just reproduce so quickly. Yeah. So the good thing about that is it really gets you tightened up for elk season. You know, you really get a lot of targets in, you know, bow shooting good and get some good sausage.

2:13:05Yeah, bow shooting great, man. Yeah, always shooting great. Archery country. Archery country. You know, as you and me are part of the owners now. Oh, yeah, it's public now. It is now. Yeah, that's exciting, isn't it? It is. Business partners, buddy. I know. That's fun. Yeah, and Evan and, and then Tyler's the man. So it's cool. Everybody together. Pretty exciting. Really fun. Yeah, we got big plans to do something really cool with a place here in Austin. That's exciting. Yeah, yeah, about going on. It's a lot happening. Archery's so much fun. Oh, the best, dude. I just, I just got this set up.

2:13:43I just love shooting bows. You get another one? Yeah, this is why you get a different one. Well, I had to get it in the sitka. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, that does look good. So we had the origin on that. Is this 80? Yeah. Yeah, it's a good looking bow. Yeah, but yeah, so some changes. Had to get in the sitka and we're rocking. Oh, yeah, I got a crew. So you said true, it ran in origin genes. No, it didn't. Not true. I thought he did. He's running in what's the company that he uses? It's called the perfect gene. Oh, I saw Jesse Michaels was a, reppin' those too in one of his YouTube videos. Yeah. Anyway, so origin like you call out though.

2:14:24So that's good. There it is. Yeah, there's a perfect gene. Yeah, well, there's a lot of people that make these great stretchy genes. Now, Revtown makes a great pair, a barbell makes a great pair. Yeah. But that, he's so jacked for a guy who runs like that kind of time, sub three hour marathon. Yeah. Nobody looks like him that's running those. Look at how jacked he is. Yeah, he's down to, he just did you gene. So he set, he got his fastest time ever in Boston on Monday. Look at that. No one's jacked like that doing fucking marathons. And then also gets the world record and pull ups. Yeah, and then he beat that time six days later in Eugene.

2:15:02That's nuts. So he didn't, so you normally under three hours as fast. He did Eugene in 234. He came in seventh place in the Austin marathon and doesn't look anything like anybody else that's running. They all, everybody else looks like popsicle sticks. Yeah, I mean, part of it is like, I told him when he was like at that little guy, I said, hey, running's your thing. Just so you know, running is going to take you and he hated it. I used to, because I made the kids run. So you make a kid do something they're going to hate it, right? So he kind of half ass effort all through high school, did pretty good.

2:15:43It was like all conferences of freshmen, but that was as hard as he ever kind of worked. He just wanted to lift and he hated running. So I told him, I said, if you work hard, you could run in college. I mean, for sure. And he's like, I don't want to run for four more years. He's like, so done with running. So finally now, now he has this goal of running under a 230 marathon. So that's in the 220s, which is fucking fast. And what's like a world record? Oh, down two hours, two hours. Right, right over it. Like, when did that become the world record? Like, what did it used to be? Like, what was like the world record in like 1999?

2:16:22He did it again. True it, Haynes. Yeah, that's math on 28. Right, he just beat that on Sunday in Eugene. Nuts. Yeah. But, yeah, so his lowest time is what now? 234. But he'll get, and there's Tanner at that. So Tanner did the Eugene marathon in the middle of the bottom. That's my oldest son. Wow. With 35 pounds. What? Yeah, so he, in combat boots. Oh my God. Him and his buddy Jake. That's so crazy. They both wore these big packs and still ran it in the forest. Wow. Yeah, so that's Tanner. With combat boots, that's fucking nuts. So these guys, true, it's wearing jeans in a, in a wife beater. True, Tanner's in a pack and hunting in combat boots.

2:17:07But hilarious. I wonder how like the Normies view that. I wonder if that bothers them. They, they, all those dorks. No, the elite runners hate people like true it. Like the, they call them like run influencers. Because part of it is the elites work so hard. They're so good. And the follow, it's hard to get a following when you're just a runner. So they see this guy and they're like, they can beat him because they're world class going to the Olympics. So true it isn't there yet. But they're like this fucking jack dork is running and getting all this. There's articles on them everywhere. And so that's why it's, it's kind of the gatekeeping thing.

2:17:54Well, that's funny because then the haters work for them. Because it's unbelievably impressive. It's impressive. I don't give a fuck what you say. Oh, it only teach people. They're the run influencers. Come on, man. The guy has the world chin up record. He's obviously a freak. Yeah. He's obviously doing something that's very, very extraordinary. And if you don't want that because you need for us, it's only for us. Yeah.

2:18:21You supposed to be skinny. We're fuck off. Yeah, they don't so true it in Eugene got 25th place. I mean, Eugene is like the right capital of the world. But the times have changed over the last 100 years. Interesting. So in 1908, it was two hours and 55 minutes. And so in 1908, true it would have the world record. In 1956, down to two hours and 17 minutes. 50 years later. 2003, two hours and four minutes. And then 2018, two hours and one minute. So between three and 18 and 15 years, they only lost three minutes. Isn't that wild? Yeah. I mean, you get to the, you're just not going to get those big gains after.

2:19:02Right. I mean, someone would have to be a fucking freak to drop under two hours, right? So they did this with, I think he got under two hours here. Wow. And he had all these Pacers and people breaking the wind for him. See, oh, I think it's could, could choke it. Yeah, he's like in white. So that doesn't count as much. Well, someone's breaking the wind for him. Right. You can't have official Pacers just, if you're not racing them, oh, there are Pacers for him. Just for him. This is this is this is the inios paste challenge. So inios is that company that makes that grenadier. Have you seen that truck?

2:19:39No. It's kind of a funny story. Inios is like a chemical company and the guy loved Range Rover Land Cruiser defenders and wanted to remake them when they stopped making them. They said, no, he's like tried to buy their factory. They're like, no, so he's like, okay, I'll make my own. So he basically made a better defender. So this is, these are new trucks that are way more durable, way better quality than those like if you get one of those classic defenders, they look cool, but it's when you shut the door on them it feels like you're closing a garbage can. Oh, I see. They feel like junk. They feel like these things are tanks are built.

2:20:20They're well, they're built specifically for off -roading. Oh, I see. But it's a brand new truck. Instead, I don't know, I don't know. Right, I know it looks like a classic defender, but it's actually way better, way better. Like I saw someone in the flesh, I was like, oh, this thing is super legit. Like heavier gauge steel, like really tight tolerances, and I've watched a bunch of videos on them. They're all outfitted. Like you could take one of those hunting for sure. They're outfitted with electricity, like in the back. They're all set up where you could put like coolers back there, like a little refrigerator.

2:20:57That's it. Yeah, and they're all, they're literally from the factory set up for outdoors. Like you don't have to do nothing to them. You could take them, do Moab with them, take them out into the fucking the woods and go. We can still have hennessees, like, sweet them up a little bit. Yeah, it doesn't have nearly the kind of horsepower that you don't like a Raptor has or anything like that. It's like, I think they only have like 300 horsepower, 208, which is not a lot, but it's the durability of the things. And the like the purpose built, this guy just, but that's the same company, Inos. Okay.

2:21:33That's the, who's that pays challenge? That race. Yeah, that's what that company is. Yeah, so on that, the goal was to try to break two hours in that race. So he did, he got down to 159, but with Pacers. Yeah. So it's possible for someone to do that without a Pacer. That's what it kind of showed. It seems like it. Yeah, yeah. That's so crazy. It's super fast. That's so crazy. Super fast. Yeah. It's like what, what one Eugene was 217. So still like what was the world record back in was at the 50s? Yeah. That's what one Eugene still. So that, that'll still win most marathons. Yeah. But fuck. Yeah.

2:22:12It's flying. Whoa. And the amount of work you have to do to get to that fast. That's what I do, I do sympathize with the pro runners. Because the, the work to, you have to put in to be elite. Whatever. You get what you deserve. This is what you get life. What you deserve. Yeah, hey, throw some jeans on it. Yeah, like it. Yeah, you don't like the fact he's getting attention. Because he's a handsome guy who's jacked as wearing jeans. Fuck off. Do you think Courtney cares about that? No. Right? Do you think she would be focusing on other people? That's people that want more than they're getting. Well, me, I'm winning.

2:22:50No one cares. Man. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we have gatekeepers in hunting, too. I don't know if you knew that. Yeah, allegedly. There's gatekeepers in everything. Well, there's always people that compare themselves to other people, and then they don't like what they find. So they try to find flaws in that other person. Yeah. That's what it is. You know, there's just, but that's that with literature, filmmaking, music, comedy, filling the blanks. There's always bitches. There's always bitches on there. And what do bitches do? They bitch. They bitch about everything. Yeah. So that's 230 marathon at 2025 or die.

2:23:31Yeah. So that he's going to get it. I mean, there's no doubt he's going to get it. He broke the world pull up, reckon. He did 10 ,000 pull ups in 24 hours. That's nuts. And so people are saying, like, oh, PEDs or EP, it's like, we were breakfast after the marathon. I'm like, I don't even know what the fuck EPO stands for. Do you? I don't know, but I know what it does. Well, it's supposed to make more red blood cells, right? Yeah. That's what, you know, a lot of the tour to France people were doing. Yeah. Doing EPO. That's as much as I know about it. So I'm like, we're at breakfast, and I'm like, do you think somebody in fucking Springfield, Oregon has EPO?

2:24:13What are you guys talking about? You could get it, but I don't think he's on it. But the thing is, like, fighters have been popped for it. EPO is real. Yeah. I think that's actually what TJ Dillashock got popped for. Oh, is that? Yes. When TJ Dillashock fought Henry Sahoodon, when he got all the way down to fly weight, the thing about that, though, is I understand why TJ did that, because TJ was literally starving himself. He's trying to get to 125. Yes. Starving himself to death. Because he would have to cut a lot of weight to make 135. So he had this idea that he was going to become a two division champion to drop down 25.

2:24:51And he was just a dead man. He had nothing left. And it probably shortened his career. It really probably did, because he looked like hell. And then Henry Sahoodon took him out in the first round. You know, when you put... So I'm not trying to compare me at all, but I was losing weight intentionally trying to get lighter for these races coming up. So I was my same theory of burning 4 ,000, eating 3 ,000, so 1 ,000 calorie deficit a day, which is fine for regular life. But when you're put... I was also running 100 miles a week. That's what my ham... My body just wasn't getting what it needed, but I was still trying to push hard.

2:25:35That's why I got injured. What did you want your goal weight to be? 55. So at 155, then you feel like it's easier to... What's the most you've ever weighed and run like 100 miles? Oh, probably like 80. 180? What was that like? It was hard. Because I think about that a lot of times when I'm wearing my weight vest, because I have one of those outdoorsman's packs. So it's got the post on the back and I put a 45 pound plate on it. And so the pack probably weighs like five pounds, and then the plates, so it's 50 pounds. That's like a normal thing that people have to lose. Yeah. So normal thing. And I'm walking up hills with this thing.

2:26:16I'm like, this sucks. This sucks, and this isn't even that heavy. Yeah. And some people, they have to lose 100 pounds. Like what are your joints feel like, man? Because it hurts my feet. Yeah. I mean, you saw it. Jelly Rolls lost like 200 now. I know. 200 pounds. He threw his phone away. He threw his phone away. Did he get it back? I think he got it back. Oh no. I've been seeing some social media posts. Well, I think he's got a guy who does that. Oh, yeah. That might be. I reached out to him and it came up green. I was like, hmm, that's weird. I did too. Then I reached out to him on Instagram.

2:26:50And his social media guy says, I'll get this message to Jelly Roll, but he got rid of his phone. Oh, good. Because he had the same phone forever, and you know, years of drinking in bars and giving out his number. Because he's so nice. He gave out his number to everybody. And apparently everybody is just blowing his phone up all day long, and he's a superstar now. And it's just like overwhelming. And I think like a lot of people, he was dealing with social media addiction. I'm sure. And then he's on this path to lose weight and get healthy. And so he just decided to chuck that phone away. Fuck these phones.

2:27:23No phone. Good move. I mean, he looks so good right now. He looks great. He looks, he's the opposite of Bert. He's the nicest fucking guy ever. He's not the opposite of Bert. They're probably going to meet in the middle. He's still got some ways to go. Bert will get, he'll be back on, and I do have to give Bert props. He is strong. Oh, he's strong. He's strong. So he, uh, he benched a lot. He beat me in benching. Did he really? Yeah. What did he bench? He did like 225, like 13, 10 times. Like a lean. Yeah. That's impressive. Because back to the sober October days, when we were talking about when he had that challenge, he couldn't do it once.

2:28:03Really? He couldn't do 225 once. Because we all had like this little contest. Like who can do 225? And he could do it at all. He's on PD. Yeah, he is for sure. He's definitely on Testosterone. No, he's strong. But he works hard. And he, I think, just drinks hard too. I think I heard him say on here that he did pull back my 80 pound bow. Did he? Yeah. That's impressive. I know. I'm telling you, he's pretty strong. Because you know who couldn't pull back my bow? Alexander Gustafson. Really? He fought in the UFC at 205. Yeah, he's huge. Yeah, he couldn't pull the bow back. Pulling a bow. He's like, is there a trick to this?

2:28:36No, here's the trick. Yeah. Just pulled a buck back. Pulled that buck back. Yeah. I do it a hundred times a day. It's, yeah. I mean, if people haven't done it, it's tough. I started incorporating, and this is probably a good thing for anybody who shoots archery a lot to do. I started incorporating what you told me, which was cable rows, standing up while holding a 10 pound weight. Yeah. And it's making a world of difference. Because I was developing a pretty severe imbalance. And then by being a meathead, I was pushing through this tendon pain that I was developing on my right lower side from just stabilizing and holding this 85 pound bow, all these reps only one way.

2:29:19And it's like, that's not smart. Right. So I started switching it over. However many times I pull the bow back with my right arm, I'll do that same amount with cable rows while holding this 10 pound weight on. It's made all the difference in the world. Because now I have tendon problems on my left side too. So it balances it out. Perfect. Not really. But I do feel like a lot of soreness on that side when I do these long sessions. I'm hitting it. You're hitting it at least. And then I'm doing a lot of back extensions. And here's the big one, that reverse hyper. I've talked about that machine before.

2:29:54That machine is a goddamn life changer. But dude, you have everything here. It's nice. Yeah. I go have to go like four different places to get everything you have here. Yeah, the gym is pretty sweet. It's set up real nice. With that reverse hyper is so big though, because it pulls the back. It's decompressing on the down swing. And you know, when you stack the weight on there, I like to get about, so I have 240 ,000 on each side. And lately I've been sticking an additional 25 on each side. So a lot of weight. So you're doing this swing up. So it strengthens the hamstrings and the lower back muscles.

2:30:31And then on a swing down, it's like pulling it, like stretching it out. And then I like to do that Dex machine where you hang from your hips, you swing down, and you're just decompressing the back. And I've been doing deep stretches in the sauna every day. Every day, instead of just sitting in the sauna for 25 minutes, now I'm doing like heavy stretches. It's fucking so hard to do when it's 195 in there. Hey, do you do the water? No. What? You gotta do the steam. It's so hot in there, dude. I do it same thing, but you gotta do the water. Are you stretching? No. You ain't even stretching. I'll say you blew out your hamstrings.

2:31:13Do you do push -ups in there? Sometimes. But I want to get an exercise bike in there. Ooh, I know people there's a minus two in there. One that's a sauna that's set up that way. It's called a fit sauna or something like that. Laird Hamilton has an air -dined bike in his. He's got oven mitts. He puts oven mitts on. And rides the air -dined with oven mitts. It would be sick, dude. It would be sick. I love doing the sauna then right into the cold punch. Yeah, it's nice. It's nice. That's my, I do, I'm almost always doing the cold punch first. That's the beginning of the workout is cold punch. And then this whole body weight thing that I do to warm back up, 100 push -ups, 100 to the other.

2:31:53Okay. And now I added 100 kettlebell swings. Okay. So I do three sets of 20, three sets of 20, or five sets of 25 sets of 25 sets of 20. But I do them like one, two, three. So I do like first push -ups, then body weights got, and then I do five, five cycles. So it's a hundred of everything. And then by that time, I'm warmed up. It's like 15, 12 minutes. So 500 reps or what, how many movements? Three movements, a hundred each, 300 reps. So 300, you know, a hundred swings, 100 push -ups, 100 body weights squats. And then did I hear no drinking anymore? No drinking, for like two plus months now. Yeah.

2:32:30I'm never going back. I mean, I will maybe I'll have a glass of wine somewhere, if I feel like it, like a loud alcohol. Yeah. But I feel stupid for waiting this long. Yeah. Because like, I would have these days, like, because you know, I would nightclub, I have a bar. We go to the club, we do some shows, have a couple of cocktails with the boys, we'll have a bunch of laughs, do a podcast, have some whiskey, have some laughs, and then the next day, like, oh, yeah. And I'd be going through my workouts, going, oh, you fucking moron, what have you done? Yeah. And you know, and I, you know, do the hyperbaric and drink a lot of electrolytes and try to flush it out.

2:33:08But if you're concentrating on improving your health and your fitness, why are you poisoning yourself? Yeah, sabotaging yourself. But you also start thinking, well, that's the only way to have fun. You have to have fun too. But no, it's not changing my fun. God, this doesn't have fun. Well, he's different. He's not having fun. He's not trying to have fun. I'm trying to have fun. Part of my job is fun. Like, fun is a prerequisite. Like, as a comedian, like, you have to be having fun. Yeah. It's part of the fun of comedy is like enjoying it. You enjoy it, they enjoy it, everybody enjoy it. It's fun.

2:33:44And so I thought, like, maybe it would be less fun if I was so, it's not. It's not. Any less fun sober. It's just as fun. And it's just, I feel better. And this is one of the things that I've always tried to tell all these comedians. And you know, I bring a bunch of them in here and work out with them. And we have these comedian workout sessions that we're doing. And Shane comes in here all the time, works out on his own, the soda's Derek and the sun and all these guys from the club. But if you have more energy, you will have more energy on stage. If you have more energy, you could do more shows.

2:34:19You could do multiple shows a night. You don't get fatigued. Like, it carries over into comedy. Like, your body and your brain are inexorably connected. If your body functions better, your brain will function. But it's like, it's not rocket science. It's real simple. It's just, nobody wants to do it. Because everybody, you can be with the best comedian ever and never lift a weight and never work out. But if the best comedian ever did that too, I bet they would be better. I bet they'd be better at everything in life. I would think. Yeah, it doesn't mean that like, the best person has to do that.

2:34:52Otherwise, you won't be the best person. No, there could be someone who's just so funny. It doesn't matter. They could be fat as fuck and be hilarious and barely walk, you know, and just be so funny, just because they're just gifted. And they put a lot of time into comedy. But if they were healthier, they'd feel better. They'd enjoy life more and they'd probably be better at everything they do, not just comedy. Yeah. Everything. Yeah, I just, I mean, on a different level, it's like when I was trying to lose that weight to get lighter, I came here the last time I saw you, we saw you at waist to well, but I tried to do everything perfect.

2:35:27But just being on the road, traveling to Texas and going back, I could not get my body weight back down for like four days. Wow. And it's not like I was drinking or eating donuts. Yeah, just, you know, you go to that, that steak place at the hotel I'm staying at, really good. Remember those big steaks we had? Yeah. And I'm like eating this meat, going, how much fucking sugar is on this thing? I mean, there's got, they put brown sugar on it. So why, which place is that? You ate there. Which place is that? Me, you, Evan, and Tyler. Is that Omni? Barton Creek Omni? Right. Oh, Bob's. No, they don't put sugar on their steak.

2:36:09Something is on there. Well, you're eating that carrot. That carrot seems to be glazed at that fucking carrot. That carrot's awesome. That carrot's a size of a football. Like, what fucking lab in China? They growing them. I know. Okay. But the meat has something, has to have sugar on it. It's too good. No. Yes. I don't think so. Okay, well then why could I not get my body weight back down? I think you're eating mashed potatoes and stuff too. You're eating a bunch of other stuff as well. I don't think the steaks have sugar on them. I think they do. Okay. RFK thinks they do too. Bob's banning them.

2:36:43He's banning Bob's. There's so many good restaurants out here. Yeah. This fucking town has so many good places to eat. Yeah. But my point was if you deviate a little bit from a disciplined, perfect diet, it takes a while. So your body is, point is to all that. Your body's so fucking sensitive. When you get so dialed in on everything, man, you really realize how little it takes to throw you off. Yeah. So imagine drinking. Well that's the thing to reason. Everybody, I know that has an or ring or where's a whoop strap. Like if you wear a whoop strap, you know, it'll show you how much you recovered through the night.

2:37:23Right. And if you drink, you will notice a big dip. If you have one cocktail, one cocktail will be a big dip in the amount of recovery you have. Right. And you won't even notice it. You'll be like, I wasn't even drunk. I was like, if you're not trying to perform and do something, you won't notice it. Like a regular person or a regular job, it might, maybe you'll feel like a little sluggish. But it's when you start to like work out and perform and run and you're like looking at these times or you're on the scale and you're like, what the fuck is going on? Yeah. Yeah. Well, most people are just used to feeling like garbage.

2:37:57Well, think about most people's diet and if they just cleaned up their diet and then just cut out all the nonsense, cut out all the processed food, cut out all the sugar, cut out all the sugary drinks and just drink water and eat healthy, pure whole foods. You would feel so much better but most people aren't doing that. So they're accustomed. They think this is what you're supposed to feel like. This is life. It's like having water in your ear and you forget and then it pops and like, oh, I'm drinking here now. Like they're walking through life with water in their ear and they think this is what it sounds like.

2:38:31But it's just you're poisoning yourself. Yeah. If you're eating a standard American diet, if you're eating fucking burgers and fries, drink it soda and eat candy, you are poisoning yourself. I went, I was coming back from Iran and I don't, I think I was dying of thirst. So I usually take like a visa in my short so I can buy something. But anyway, I went into Fred Meyer back there at home and I never go shopping. I don't even remember the last time I was at a grocery store. But I was walking down the aisles of a regular grocery store and I was like, holy shit, I wanna eat all this stuff. It looks, it's fucking terrible but looks as bright colors.

2:39:12I'm just like every aisle, I don't know what I was looking for. Supposedly something to drink, but I don't know what, but I just kept walking down the aisles going. I haven't eaten any of this shit in so long but it looks so good. And then I was thinking, that's what most people are buying and eating. The shit. Yeah. No wonder you feel terrible. Yeah, most of what you're eating in the supermarket, most of what you can buy in the supermarket is terrible for you. Yeah. The whole center area, right? It's all full shit. Yeah. Unless it's like tomato sauce or whatever. And even that, a lot of that has like seed oils in it if you buy it from a shooting company.

2:39:47It's a lot of garbage. People eating a lot of garbage and that's the average person. And then you have a doctor, like you don't need vitamins. Oh, you just have a balanced diet. Oh, sure. You fucking slobbed. You doysack a shit with old information. Well, so here's the point that I just remembered my point. So I was trying to buy donuts because I was doing an ultra marathon the next day. So you saw like me in Courtney running. Normally it doesn't matter what type of calories when you're working that hard. You just need calories and salt. And sugar. So I'm like, I'm gonna get some old fashioned donuts because I was gonna do this 50k.

2:40:23I'm like, that would be perfect calories. So you know where I found the donuts and the fucking produce over there with the vegetables. So they're like hiding little treasures. You're trying to be healthy. Like I'll get it fucking apple. Then you like look at a old fashioned donut. You're like, fuck this apple. I'm gonna get these donuts. So they still sabotage. Clever. Yeah, I wonder if there's like a marketing strategy involved now. I wonder if they had like a meeting like look, people are trying to eat well, but we can fuck them. The algorithm. Yeah. Yeah, it's like the algorithm. It really is kind of like the algorithm.

2:40:55They're predicting everything. That's the other thing I've been doing. I'm basically off as social media. All I'm doing is I will, I still allow myself to look at it if I'm taking a shit. Oh, look, but try not to like linger. So now every time you send me something, I know you're shitty. Most likely. Or someone sends me something. Or someone said, well, I didn't send you, I sent you YouTube videos. That's different. Okay. I was watching that actually at home on TV. I was watching that on the big screen. Yeah. Because I was interested like last night in watching like some, you know, every night is a different.

2:41:31If I get like some downtime and I can relax a little bit and watch something on TV, sometimes I like watching a show, you know, a fiction show like Mobland or something like that, but sometimes I get on these kicks where I want to watch certain things. And last night it was like old school fighters training. You know, and I just got, I went down this rabbit hole. I watched old school Sugar Ray Robinson too. That was amazing. He was another one. Super dedicated to his craft. Again, trained harder than anybody, but also trained smarter. And he would move different than people. Cause he was a dancer.

2:42:04He actually retired from fighting for a brief period of time just to be a dancer and performed like dance shows. Wow. And then went back to fighting. So he could move, man. And footwork. Yeah. But it was like, it was intentional. It wasn't, it was all like, there were certain moves that he would, he would program into his footwork and movement and his balance, his ability to get out of the way. And you know, he was fighting at a time but those guys were fighting like every couple of weeks, you know? Yeah, they fought a lot. Crazy. What's a, what's your, so you said fighting sometimes, but what is your go to on YouTube?

2:42:40Do you think you watch most? If I want to just zone out, it's professional pool. I watch professional pool. I still, that's my number one addiction is playing pool. So that comes up on your recommended last time YouTube. Yeah, mostly pool and then ancient civilizations. Okay. Ancient civilizations is number two. I love watching videos on these mysteries where they're just uncovering, I was watching this whole thing in Malta about Malta the other day, where they found these elongated skulls in Malta that are missing the characteristics of a normal human skull. So a normal human skull has, I think it's called a sagittal crest.

2:43:20There's a line that goes down the middle like this. It's like a, you know, like as you're growing as a baby, you have like these plates and you head that move around and they expand as your head grows and there's like lines. So there's a line that goes straight and there's a line that goes like this across. These heads don't have that. They don't have the line that goes straight but they're elongated human skulls and they have a line that goes in the back but they don't have the line that goes down the center. And they're trying to like make sense of this. Like what is this? What is this? And Malta is a giant mystery.

2:44:01Like Malta is this island that used to be at one point in time before the flood, it was connected to Sicily. And they know Neanderthals lived there like thousands of years before, you know, recorded civilization but they didn't think people homosapiens did but they found these elongated skulls that are different than any human skull and then they found these incredible stone constructions, these stone buildings and immense stones that have crazy erosion on them. That they think is more than 6 ,000 years of erosion. So they're trying to figure out what happened. Like what is this? How old is this?

2:44:39Is this from before the flood? Is this when before the ice age? Like what the fuck is this? Yeah. And why are these elongated skulls there? Yeah, that's nuts. Bizarre stuff. Bizarre stuff because it's like there's so many mysteries in terms of like the human race and how long people have been building things and every now and then they'll uncover something and it pushes everything back. Like they used to think the first people in North America were like 13 ,000 years ago, it was Clovis first. Then they found these footprints in New Mexico that are 22 ,000 years old. So like, well, okay. That's not number one.

2:45:19That's not like the first person to come here. There's like probably people even before that. But there's very little information and then there's this like crazy stone wall that they found in Montana and it was on private property and no one even knew it was there. And these people, they just were clearing some land and they found this fucking wall. This thing, I think it's called the Sage wall in Montana. But these immense stones that looks like they were placed there who knows how long and there's people arguing, oh, this is like natural, this is it. Whoa. What the fuck is that, dude? So that was all covered with treat, by the way, it goes deep into the ground too.

2:46:02It goes like 10 feet deep into the ground. So they're like, okay, is this a natural formation? It doesn't look natural. It looks like human beings placed those stones. Yeah, it looks like it was placed there. It's really weird, man. Look, there's like weird stuff about it like that. Like someone made that as a circle that's carved into it and then there's like the, the, the, that sort of structure that looks like it's the outline of it. Right. So there's a lot of arguments. Like that one photograph right there, that photograph's fucking crazy. So it looks fake. Yeah, is that fake? It looks fake.

2:46:40That one's fake. Are you sure? The rest of them melt up. Well, let's see which one is fake and which one is it because some of them, that one on the upper left end is definitely real. And these, like I said, these go down deep, you know, they've done like, they've used like machinery or sensors to find out how deep that goes and it goes like 10 feet down deep into the ground. Like we get that one with the rock on top of it. That flat rock up there. Like what is it? There's a lot of weird, weird stuff when it comes to, so if this is man made, how fucking old is that? Like how old is that? There's nothing else there, just that wall.

2:47:17Yeah. Or maybe is there other, because they didn't even know this exists that I think it was till the 90s. Wow. 96. So what other stuff is out there that people haven't uncovered, that is covered with ground. It's another thing they're finding out about the rainforest. They used to think the Amazon rainforest was like these little patching tribes of people. Well, there's a guy that visited in the 1500s and he said that there was like these crazy temples and these huge structures and cities with millions of people. And then New Explorer's went 100 years later and they found none of these things.

2:47:54Because that fucking first guy probably gave everybody diseases and killed the entire continent, which is nuts. Like probably killed everybody that lived in the Amazon. Like the Amazon, I was watching another documentary around this the other night. They found, they use LIDAR, so there's LIDAR, they fly over it and they use these sensors to detect these structures that are deep in the rainforest that are covered with trees. And they're finding all of these corridors and squares and things that seem to indicate irrigation and structures. Like this is nuts. So there was like millions of people living in the Amazon and some dirty Europeans came over in the 1500 and gave them their coodies and they all died out.

2:48:41Yeah. Just like what happened with most of the Native Americans. Like most people think like, most people don't know. But the Native Americans, like 90 % of the Native Americans were killed by disease. That 90 % of the population died off by disease, which is crazy. Millions of people living this nomadic life in North America while the Renaissance is going on over in Europe. And these people are using flint arrowheads and nuts. They didn't even have horses. They didn't even have horses until the Europeans came over and brought them. The whole thing's crazy. Yeah, it is. That reminds me. So that's what I'm watching a lot of.

2:49:21That's your go -to. Yeah, I'm just absolutely fascinated by ancient civilizations. And then these mysteries, like the pyramids and these structures they found under the pyramid. Have you seen that? Yeah. That's great. I've heard talk about it basically. I don't know. It was right. I don't know. I mean, I know some people think it's nonsense. But the researchers seem to think that they've done multiple scans and gotten the same results over and over again. And they're like, whatever these things are, there's pillars and there's spirals around the pillars. And it goes deep into the ground and the whole structure is two kilometers deep.

2:50:02Yeah, I heard. I think I heard you talk about it. Then I heard that I thought it was fake. Some people think that it can't be real because there's a water table underneath the great pyramid. That's what it was. But the question is, is it real? And there's a water table? Is this shit in the water? Yeah. Because it's so, or that was, were these people so advanced, they built these insane structures, two kilometers deep through the water? That's big. Look, it's nuts that they can make the pyramid. Yeah, I know. The pyramid doesn't make sense. It's self is nuts. All the structures, the temple of Luxor, all that stuff is crazy.

2:50:35So if they can make that, why are we assuming that that's the pinnacle of crazy? Like there might be crazier below the surface. That is like, right, imagine if everybody thought that the most advanced buildings that were ever created were like buildings they built in Chicago in the 1800s. Wow, look at this. This is what craftsmanship, boy, people had reached an incredible level of ability and then someone stumbles upon the pyramid. And they're like, the pyramid, they go, okay, wait. Yeah, what the fuck is this? There's 2 ,300 ,000 stones in this and they weigh between two and 80 tons and they're cut from a quarry hundreds of miles away, some of them.

2:51:15Move through the mountains like, wow. So that's crazy. And imagine we think, well, this is the height of crazy. Will you go under the surface of it, below the ground? What is this two kilometer deep structure? Yeah. That's even crazy. That makes that look simple, right? It's well, then these people just move and stomp. How the fuck did they get it through the water? What I think of when I hear that is, could you imagine the hunting back then? Oh my God. I can epic. Probably. But you have shitty bows. You didn't have a nice bow. You didn't have a bow. Could you imagine? If you had this sick bow.

2:51:50Oh my God. If you had a modern bow back then. Yeah, there's two things that I thought of. But you know when bears get old, they get a crease in their skull. Yeah. So it was like when you're talking about that skull, I was wondering if it was age -related. I don't see how the lions would disappear. No, the lions wouldn't disappear. That was the argument of this video that I was watching. See if you could find any of those elongated skulls of Malta. There was a whole bunch of stuff. Yeah. Apparently I'm seeing urban legend. They talked about 10 years ago they were on display. They weren't on display.

2:52:23Yeah, but they're definitely not an urban legend. Because this was, I was watching an actual archaeologist discussing these things. And then there was an alternative guy that was discussing it saying that the issue is with these lines in the skull don't exist in these skulls. But they were all admit that these skulls, well, there's different, this is ancient aliens. I'm just Googled Malta skulls. It's a skull. I just go with, they're all, that's what I'm saying, is there's different stuff that comes up all the way from Malta websites to talk about it. Because this is something that people want to go see.

2:52:55Right, let's click on that one. See if they have any images on display. Because like this is accepted by actual archaeologists. They said there's, because human beings have been doing weird stuff with skulls. So that's it right there. So you see how that skull has that line through the top? Most skulls have a line straight down the middle too. That's how human skulls are. So this is weird. These are, now also, here's the thing. Could totally be a human that has genetic anomalies. Like there's these people in Africa that have, they call them ostrich feet people. This is weird genetic anomaly that this whole village has where they're feet instead of having five, like a big toe and four little toes, they have branched off like an ostrich.

2:53:41Like it looks really strange. And that's real? Yeah, yeah, it's totally real. And it's real today. But it's a genetic anomaly and it's been passed on through these people in this one tribe, in this one area. So it's like someone had it. They get, so it could be that, right? It could be that that skull looks weird because these people were just born weird. Right, yeah. You know, some people have born with giant noses. Some people have huge heads. Some people are like seven feet tall for no reason. Big digs. Giant hogs. You know, it's like, we've been... We've very afflicted with that. Yeah. Humans vary quite a bit.

2:54:21So it could be that that's why that skull looks that way. But it is absolutely fascinating. And one of the things that they keep finding is new versions of human beings, which is really weird. Like they found the Denisovans. I think they found those in like 2010. And then there was, what is the recent ones, Jamie, that we were talking about that have the big heads? There's these big headed, like, not homo sapien, but like cousins of homo sapiens that they just found these, like really recently, within the last few years. They're like, okay, this is, we thought these were Denisovans. This is a totally different branch.

2:54:58And so there's multiple branches of human beings that coexisted along with homo sapiens and the Andertals for a long last time. Yeah. Scientists may have discovered a new form of ancient humans known as large head people. So this is in December of 2024. The Julurent, Julu, large head people. So they took like these skulls and tried to make like a recreation of what they looked like. And they looked like these jacked, looking hairy cave people. They looked pretty badass. That's not her. She looks hot. They're like, anything like that. You wouldn't survive back then if you looked like that. No. I see.

2:55:41Maybe you'll find like an image of what they recreated because the image looks pretty cool. I was, so where does hunting videos fit in your YouTube algorithm? No, I watch those too. That's, I watch, you know, I watch all yours, of course. I watch a lot of different, I was watching Remy's, some of Remy's videos last night. That one and the one right there. Yeah. There's a video of one standing up. See if you can find images. There's one that we looked at before where the dudes are standing up and he looks super, yeah, that's it. So this super jacked, hairy dude, sick ass bones. Yeah. Like the Andertals, like they were way different than us.

2:56:22They were way more jacked than us. It looks like a beast, doesn't it? Yeah, I had to be to survive. We made a arrowhead, it looked like he had in his hand or something. Yes, something. You know, I mean, the Andertals, they did art. You know, they made cave art. Some of the cave art, they know for sure was the Andertals and some of it is pretty sophisticated. Whoa. That's what they looked like. Fred Flintstone kind of. Bro, those things would have fucked us up. Imagine that guy in the UFC, he'd be like, oh Jesus. Imagine the guy on the right has to fight the guy on the left. Are you fucking kidding me?

2:56:54Not good. So this is like this big dense, it's kind of weird that we survived. Especially if you look at some of those marathon runners, like imagine those people survive whether that thing's around. Those things probably eight people. Like look at that. That's what they think they looked like. God. Fuck. Yeah. That'd be rough. Super dense, giant jacked human beings. That one in the corner was walking to the right, far right. Keep, yeah, look at that. Like that's what they think they look like. Yeah. Fuck that. Imagine you walk through the woods, you see that dude there? That's, that's where it.

2:57:30Fuck. What is fascinating, you know, is like, that's what I do like about the endurance stuff that we're doing is those people do, imagine how far they can get in a day. Oh, yeah, probably hundreds of miles. And so nowadays we're so far the other way. Yeah. If you walk a mile, you've done something. Well, you're eating everything in the middle of the supermarket. And you're watching video games, playing video games all day. Some kids aren't even playing video games. They're watching other people play video games. That's what's like, it's pretty cool to think about. We're still making our bodies go say this 250 mile race.

2:58:07I mean, that's kind of cool. Yeah, it is cool. But back then they probably did that shit all the time. All the time. So we're built for that. Yeah. You know what I mean? They probably had to. Of course they had to, but like human as, humans as a species are built for endurance. So that's what I like about those events. Right. It's like this is what we're supposed to be doing. Well, persistence hunting. Yeah, that's pretty crazy. Yeah. Where you just chase an animal down because animals don't sweat and people do it. So you can't outrun them in a sprint. But if you just keep chasing them, eventually they die.

2:58:42Yes, down. And then you just stab them when they're out of breath and you eat them. You got to be either an open country or you can keep eyes on them or be able to track them really well. Isn't that crazy that that was a strategy that humans employed just chase them until they run out of, they can't run. Yeah. They still do it. I bet that's where some of the best marathon runners come out of. Yeah, for sure. You know, yeah, it's a, those, they're so good at tracking in Africa because of that. It's just like they can stay on those tracks with no blood or anything because, you know, that's the name of the game.

2:59:14Keep your eyes on them. Yeah, and wear them out. That's what it's always fascinating to me how guys can just look at the ground and see footprints where I don't see shit. Yeah. And some guys that are just really good at it, man. Yeah, I mean, they can, they can follow tracks like across, just solid rock. What? Just looking at little scuffs. They can see little scuffs from the hooves. That's crazy. I've, I've been over there, you know, hunting quite a bit. And I would sit just as you just said, like, what are you seeing? And so I would ask them, it's, it's hard because they speak Swahili. So you got a, it's hard figuring out, but I was there for three weeks one time.

2:59:52So I kind of got dialed in. But so I would ask, what are, what are we looking at here? What, what, what are you seeing? Or is just how grass, grass will go a certain way. And then if it's not that certain way, it's because something made it, something pushed it out of the way. Even if it's just a little bit of grass, you just like look for these moments, small little tells. Wow. Yeah. So it's like being so, that's another reason why I love the mounds, love being out. It's just you have to be so, if you're going to be good at it, in tune with everything, you have to be sensitive to almost everything.

3:00:30That's how you can get within Bo range of an animal and get it killed or find it after you've put an arrow in it. It's like you're just deciphering all this information. Some people are good, some people are, but mostly it's experienced related. Those people have learned in Africa, have learned from the best trackers there are. We haven't had to be that good here, but I've, I've wanted to develop that skill and just get better. But it's like it's noticing the little, the minute details. Someone had a really good argument. Do you remember who it was, Jamie, where they were talking about the invention of the bow and arrow?

3:01:04And they were saying the odds of this happening simultaneously all over the world are very unlikely. And that what's much more likely is that someone developed that technology and was traveling and that when you go back to the earliest use of the bow, which I don't know when that was, do you know when that wasn't? What's guess? What would you guess? How many thousands of years ago they figured out the bow and arrow? Oh my God. 3000? I would say. I mean, it has to be before pyramids. Yeah. The pyramids are 5 ,000 or 4 ,500. That's the conventional. I mean, so many people think it's older than that.

3:01:45I say 10 ,000, 10 ,000 years for the bow and arrow. So that means that someone had to be traveling because like the Native Americans had it, the Polynesians had it. Like everybody had it, right? The Africans had it. Like everyone had the bow and arrow. Europeans had it. When was Mongolians? Well, that was the 1200s. The rise of Jengus Khan was like the 1200s, 1200s to the 1300s. Yeah, they had crews. Yeah, they did 160 pound poles. Yeah, they were fucking people up with those bows. Yeah, those guys, they say that their skeletons were distorted. You know, like I'm talking about like I'm trying to bounce out my body because I'm pulling too much.

3:02:27The floor arm would get. Yeah, everything was jacked. Their shoulders, their back, everything was like torqued and twisted. What was the, so let's guess what did we say? I said 10 ,000 years. You said, let's say five. I believe what I just stumbled across is the earliest people known to have used bows and arrows were the ancient Egyptians who adopted archery in approximately 2800 BC. Okay, so roughly 4 ,800 plus years ago, roughly guessing. So how does it get to North America? How do those people get it? So if the Native Americans, if we have evidence of human beings living in New Mexico, 22 ,000 years ago, when did they pick up the bow?

3:03:12Who got it to them? Because by the time Columbus came in the 1400s, they already had it. So where did they get it? Who taught them that? Yeah. Where did they get it? Did they figure it out independently to put feathers as fletchings and to put a, yeah, look at that cool picture from Egypt. Wow. That's crazy. Right. So were the Egyptians traveling all the way to North America? Like who? I don't know. Who figured it out first? They had some sick stuff. But the, do you remember who it was, Jamie? I was looking, I was, I changed the question. I went down the other route. It was a fascinating conversation because I never considered it until they brought it up.

3:03:57They said, I don't think the bow and arrow just, he goes, I think that's technology that was shared. Which is a great argument for world travelers. Yeah. I just, I was thinking about, was there land bridges that we don't know about? I don't know. Well, there definitely was, if you go back 11 ,000 years ago, I mean, that's when people were walking across the bearing land bridge and yeah, Michael Wadau. Oh, Michael Wadau. Was it him that was saying that? I believe so. I'm wearing the same shirt. What's the odds? Well, you guys, I know you guys are talking about, you know, Pope and young went over on the boats and took, remember they took tubs of arrows?

3:04:37Yeah, because they're just slinging them. And they're going to be gone for like what, seven months. Yeah. Wadau had some great stories about talking to his wife about, hey, I'm going to go hunting, be back next year. You know, because it's like so long of it. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah, just that people getting in boats back then was so nuts. I just know that, you know, Fred Bear has that quote, the history of, of arteries, a history of mankind. I always think of that. So as long as man's been around, we've had to kill the archery equipment of what must have just completely opened up the door for having more kids for being able to survive and feed your family.

3:05:19Because if you're just stabbing things, you got to get so close. And then you get an adalado. Okay, how far can you throw that? Yeah. But then if you got a bow, like now all of a sudden, all those fuckers over there in trouble, you know, they don't even know yet. They don't even know what to look out for. And there's things whistling through the air, contradictory information. Oh, what is this? The four waves of bow and arrow use in northern America, North America, this occurred at 12 ,000. Whoa. 12 ,000. 12 ,000 years ago. Yeah. So I started going down this hole. So it's pre -adulsion BC then.

3:05:58I don't know what. No, 12 ,000 years ago is 10 ,000 BC. Okay. They found bows in different places. Whoa. That's nuts. I don't know for sure. 12 ,000 years ago. Yeah, I see the last couple minutes. Right. So again, so 12 ,000 years ago now it makes sense that people are walking. So people from Asia could walk over. I mean, maybe it was made in Asia. Yeah. But, but 30 ,000. 30 ,000. I don't know what the evidence of that. Sub -artic, sub -artic people first brought Archie Bo with them to North America from Asia. 30 ,000 years ago. Wow. Okay. How? How? So 30 ,000 years ago, people were supposedly dumb as shit.

3:06:40And, you know, how are they figuring out how to make a stick fly through the air with a string? And kill things with it. And kill things with it. Yeah. And hunt. Mongolian people were the first to adapt, adopt the bow in the southwestern region of what is now called the United States. Whoa. Mongolan, not Mongolian. Mongolan. I don't even know who they are. 2000 years ago. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Just after Jesus. 30 ,000 years ago is nuts. But it's like, how does that get all around the world? That's really interesting because it's not like there's a bunch of different versions of it. Yeah, because the physical characteristics of this bow are striking me in several respects.

3:07:25So it's like, yeah. There's no, it doesn't say what that is. That's a recurve. No, I just mean like when they found the bow. Oh, right, right, right, right. Yeah, I thought that they were saying that no matter where they found these bows, they were all very similar. Right. They had the fletchings. It goes to your point of how did that information get around the world? How did they figure that out? Yeah. The first recorded use of archie brother could quite early in human history. Images from the Paleolithic and Mesolithic cave paintings. 10 ,000 BC. In Spain and France, to pick groups of simple, silhouetted figures using the bow as both the weapon of combat and the hunt.

3:08:04See if you can find some of those images, the metallic, mesolithic, mesolithic. That's some that one documentary, The Cave of Dreams. It's a Werner Herzog film. I think that's what it's called. Is that you down there? I looked like it. Whoa. Isn't that sweet? That's crazy. Look at that one. Look at that one. Look at that one. That one right there. Whoa. That's crazy. 7 ,000 year old bow and arrow painting. God. Wow. That's what, you know, anytime I get those people in there for a lift run shoot and Wayne starts talking to him with the bow rack, he's just like showing him how to shoot a bow and people are like, they get it.

3:08:48He's like, feels familiar, right? He goes, because that's what man's always done. Whoa. That's why it feels familiar. So it's like people who have never done it all of a sudden are like, yeah. They're like, oh, this, this stirs something up in them. It does resonate with me. It does resonate with your DNA. Just me. You can tell. You know what I tell people? It's like, you know, when you catch a fish, like even when kids catch a fish, I remember when my daughter caught her first fish, the excitement is genetic. Oh, you got one. How do you know you're so excited? Right. Why are they exciting? Yeah.

3:09:23Why is it exciting to catch a fish? But because it's programmed into your DNA from the time we were figuring out how to catch fish that if you caught a fish, you get to live. You get to eat it. So you get a reward. Right. Your body gets excited about catching that. That's that same feeling. That's why people like when they can shoot something and it hits the spot. It's not like throwing a basket ball through a hoop. That's kind of fun. But it doesn't have the same feeling. No. There's a feeling of archery when you hit something. It's like, oh, yeah. You see an animal. You're like, I wonder if I could hit that with my arrow.

3:09:55Yeah. You just want to shoot it stuff. Yeah. Well, I was going to do the other day. I was sending you pictures. I did. Yeah. Exactly. That's just what I mean, I'm driving. I see horses, cows, whatever. And I'm like, I see cows, legs forward. Oh, god, I could get an arrow right now. Right in the lungs there. Perfect. That's just what you kind of programmed your brain to see. Right. But it's also like the same drive that leads you to run all these miles to be at your best and that also makes you concentrate on being accurate at archery, all it's thinking about archery all the time. If you don't, you won't be as good as you can be.

3:10:33If you want to be as good as you possibly can be, you have to kind of think about that. All in composing. Yeah. All in composing. Take over your fucking brain. Yeah. Imagine if you can get those people from back then, you're like, let me show you some shit. I would love it. This is called a hog father. I've wanted to go over, like there's these people that have, God, what tribe is that? That have an Instagram page. I think they were the red stuff. I think in Africa, think of sent you that. I want to go and hunt with them so fucking fine. I'm a sigh. Yes, yeah. I want to go over. They're so bad and just hang out.

3:11:11They would probably freak out and they saw your bow. What are you doing? I know when I went to Tanzania, I would just shoot it like, they'd put up like a buffalo quarter. The Hads also do. The Hads are too. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. That's the people that David Chow went over and hung out with, right? That's a 2 .3 million followers. Whoa. Yeah, that's not the one I always think. Interesting. Influencing. Yeah, there's an influencer. There's a lady doing there. Upper left lady. What's she doing with the Hads? Well, let's wrap this up, Cam. Your book, Perfect Title, Undeniable. It is a perfect title.

3:11:47Really is. That's one of the things that we always talk about. It got to be undeniable. Yeah, it's a perfect name. I just think it captures what we're trying to do in life. Yeah, yeah, whatever everybody's trying to do in life, if you're really trying to do something well, you're going to have some haters. What's the best way to silence haters? When? Be undeniable. Be undeniable. So if you're talking shit, you just look like an idiot. You just look like a fool. Here's what I've learned. This is going to be the surprising hit pretty hard. I don't know if you've ever heard this before, but it pays to be a winner.

3:12:21LAUGHTER Now, undeniable to me, it's like the people I've had on. I've learned so much from your featured in the book, but it's like what makes people undeniable? What allows people to, regardless of what they do, to rise to the top? And there's certain characteristics of each person, and what it is, it's like they have this overwhelming passion for whatever they're doing. It's like that's all they care about. It's all they think about Rocky Marciano, Goggins. Whoever you know of, you think of a person's name doing something? They're undeniable. Yeah. They're obsessed with whatever they're doing.

3:13:00Speaking of obsessed, I'm obsessed with getting something right. I don't think, I think the sagittal crest is actually the peak of the skull that Gorillas have. I think I fucked that up. I think there's a different, I was looking for a different word for those cracks in the skull. It's not sagittal crest. I think the sagittal crest is that thing that separates like what a Gorilla skull looks like versus a chimpanzee skull. There it is. Yeah, that's the sagittal crest. That's that ridge bone. Yeah. So what are those lines called? Oh, it's a suture, that's right. That's right, that's what they call it.

3:13:34So there's a coronal suture, and then there's the other one. That's a fucking head's are weird. Imagine that's a person. I know. How fucking weird that is. See that weird? So that's what a normal person looks like I think at that weird line. Oh, that's what. So it's a peridial foramen. So that's the sagittal suture, and then there's the other suture. Or a droid. What's that other suture called? See that lambdoid on the left there. Yeah, lambdoid suture and the sagittal suture. So that's what the sagittal is the line that they're missing, the one that goes up the men. That's a, look at that gorilla head.

3:14:13Yeah. Lower right hand corner. Oh, fucking. Cool. Gorilla's almost have like a mohawk in their skull because they have these giant muscles for chomping on fucking roots and shit. And you would never, if you hit that fucker in the head, it wouldn't do anything. I'll laugh at you. Have you ever seen, there's a 3D image we can end with this? Because people always say, how many fucking people do you think you would take to beat a gorilla? To beat a gorilla. Well, guess what? It literally doesn't matter. So somebody made like a, you know, they do like recreations like let's find out. And so they showed what would happen.

3:14:52I just sent it to you, Jamie. I showed what would happen if 100 dudes tried to fight a gorilla, spoiler alert. 100 dudes get fucked up. Look at this. This is what it would look like. Oh my god. Like the gorilla's trying to run, it just turns around, just starts fucking people up. Holy shit. Yeah, you got no chance. Could you imagine taking a big right from that thing? I would watch the first couple dudes take a right and I would take a left. I'd be like, see, I'm gonna, I don't think gorilla's gonna chase me. You just gotta get his back. Nope. Can you imagine, if you did grab, get on his back.

3:15:27You just grab with one arm and throw you fucking 50 yards. He would grab you and his grip would break your fucking ribcage. It would just, his fingers would probably penetrate your skin and go right through to your organs. Hey, he's just fucking all these people up. Boom, boom. That guy took a couple in her own. The Russians probably tried this already. Probably already had, look at this. All these other guys like, oh, I'm gonna give it a shot. I'm gonna give it my best. I'm gonna give it my best. Yeah, why are these guys still there? I don't know. Because they're being forced. Look, he's running trying to blow a bitch ass hammer fist to hit the gorilla.

3:16:05It's like, if you get your kind of bell running a little bit and you're kind of dazed and then you're just standing there and taking off everyone. It flies too when he hits him. Boom. What? What? That would be a good one in Don. But here's what we really need in Don. Because last time endure was like the number one seller and they put it number seven or something on New York Times. So we need, why was it? We need number one. We deserve number one. We should be number one this time. You didn't get number one because of some weird shit. It's not because New York, the New York Times best out of the way.

3:16:39It's curate. It's an editorial. Yeah, that's what's weird. If it just goes based on sales, endure would have been up there, but they gave me number seven. So, I'm crazy that this just gave me what I deserved this time. Why are you lying? I don't know. If you're going to have a top 10, why lie? You're lying. You can't decide that this one's a top 10. Could it's meet by a transgender person of color? Is it better? I don't know if it helps me to call them out or... No. They're going to fuck you. I'm going to what? But America will know. But on Amazon, that's not curated, right? No, no. So that'll be legit.

3:17:14That'll be sales. That'll be legit. So that's the one that should count. But yeah, I mean, the whole point, also I wanted to also end on, I wouldn't have had the success with those books, if not for you. You wrote the forward to endure, it made the New York Times bestseller list. You know as well as anybody, the next book, if you can say, from the New York Times bestselling author of endure, that just makes the next one go crazy. So, without you, this wouldn't have happened. Well, without you, I would have never been bow hunting. So, and we wouldn't own archery country. Yeah, we wouldn't own archery country.

3:17:48All right, let's bring it home. Endure, it's out now. It's out May 6th. May 6th. No, no, no, endure's out. Oh, excuse me, undeniable. Undeniable is out May 6th today is April 29th. So, wait a week. Tuesday. Did you do the audio version of it? I did. Yes. Yes. It was tough, but people love it. Yeah, they do. They want it in your voice. It has to be. It has to be in your voice. Well, Joe, thank you. My pleasure brother. I love you to death. You're the best. All right. Goodbye, everybody.