#2326 - Jimmy Carr

26:08Is that not enough? Will that not do? No, we need miracles, Jimmy. But when going going back to the translation of the Bibles, one of the things I want to say, I think the reason why that was important at the time was because that power was being abused because most people couldn't read Latin. And most people couldn't read. I mean, really, when you think about reading, yes, it was the Bible was the reason. The Bible was the bestseller that people went, no, I've got to go out and read a book. I got to I got to get out. It was pivotal event for the Catholic Church convening from 1962 to 65. Oh, so we're talking about a different time.

26:47So we're thinking of the second vat. Oh, now Vatican II. Is that what we are referring to? Yeah, so that was 1962. We're referring to is the 1500s. We're referring to like Martin Luther. Oh, no, that's the Protestantism. That's the idea of the... Well, the translation of the Bibles into different language. Well, yeah, the... Well, the Bible... It was because it was originally in Latin. Yeah, that was originally... That was probably in Aramaic. Yeah. But the idea of the Protestantism was the idea that you want, you've got your own relationship with God. So it went from being Catholics and Protestants to ultimately every individual was their own church.

27:25Yeah, Martin Luther perspective was like it's open to interpretation by you. You should develop this relationship with God through the word and that you should read. And it wasn't up to the priest to tell you what it meant. It's fascinating though that there's a law of history. There's one law in history which is unintended consequences. And the consequence of that, of course, is that we over solve for the individual in our culture now. Protestantism had such a huge influence. That's all about the individual and less about the group. Well, it's not gonna be a balance of the two. But it's a response to the power structures that were really detrimental and the power structures of the church.

28:08I mean, there's a reason why the priests aren't allowed to have sex. It's because they were fucking everybody because they had power. You know what happened? What happened? Okay, the plague happened. So when the plague happened, it wiped out about a third of the population of earth, right? So the plague was huge now. It had a much worse effect on the priesthood because everyone got lost rights. So when you were dying, you got lost rights. Oh, wow. So the priesthood was knocked out like 95 % of priesthood. Oh my god. I didn't even think of that. The standards pre -the plague, the standards in the church were the smartest guy you've ever met, the smartest guy in the village, the town, the region, was the priest.

28:50The smartest of the smartest guy, the most intelligent guy, became the bishop. And the Pope was like this guy's a genius. It was the best of the best to cremdle a crem. The standards for the priesthood post -the plague. This guy's got all his own teeth. You're in. Like it went down. And then all of that thing of like the plenary indulgences where you could buy your way into heaven is all, you know, all of that came off the back of the thing. So the standards kind of went down and then it became kind of corrupted. How dirty is that one? The buying your way into heaven. Well, it's so dirty. Well, people don't realize that people often laugh at like the, you know, he's going to blow himself up to get 72 virgins.

29:37The crusaders all got a fast track to heaven. Nice. Yeah. Something guy tells you. Yeah. I've just discovered this. Yeah. Yeah. I was having a conversation with a friend one the other day and she was telling me that there's a list of human beings that are alive today that are being considered for priesthood. Like they have to think, excuse me, for st .hood. For st .hood? Yeah. So they have to like go over all these different religious figures that are alive currently and decide if they're going to be a saint. Who's going to be a saint? You know Christopher Hitchens, the great Christopher Hitchens, right?

30:18Christopher Hitchens. Literally. You have the phrase, the devil's advocate. Of course. He had that job. So when Mother Teresa was made a saint by the Catholic Church, they bring someone in when they're making someone a saint in the Catholic Church in the Vatican to be the voice of the opposition. And he got the job. He played to the devil's advocate for real on Mother Teresa. He wrote a book about it. I've always wondered about him, loved the guy, pissed off a lot of people, got cancer. I hate to be the conspiracy theorist. And at the time, you hate to be the conspiracy theorist. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if you're familiar with your brand, but you are the conspiracy theorist.

30:59At the time, I was like, I wish you didn't smoke and wish you didn't drink. Now I'm like, God, I know a lot of people smoke and drink and they live forever. What the fuck's going on? Why did Christopher Hitchens die so young? But then again, why did Hicks die so young? Hicks died at like a pancreatic cancer, like 33 or something. Yeah, I don't think we can relate these death to pissing them off. Of course not. Of course not. But it's quite the writer. Oh, he's genius. He was so. Hitch 22. And there's a book that he wrote about politics, the letters to a young contrarian. Oh, my God. It's like, it's, it's, it's a, there was bits of, it's amazing things kind of books when people write their autobiography.

31:38And it's like, it just, it's a gift. It's just you can, you can feel like you know them. Well, it can also like imagine what would you do if you were living this person's life. You're going through all the various stages of their life. You're empathizing with them. You're seeing their struggles. You're seeing, you know, they're whatever they're going through. And you're like, wow, what would I do? Wow, that's great. Well, that's why he became this way. Oh, wow, that's amazing. You know, you, you learn a lot from other human beings when they're really open. They really let you in. You know, which is one of the things I think reasons why we detest people that are very manufactured and closed off.

32:19Like, you know, the newscaster that you're never going to, you don't know it's damn thing about those people, you know, why this works? Yeah, for sure. Because you go this format, this, it's a lot, there's nowhere to hide. It's three hours of conversation. You're going to talk about what you're going to talk about. It's going to come up. And it's that this thing of, it's authentic. And authenticity is what people crave. Oh, yeah, for sure. And it's playful. And I think, I mean, okay, this is my big theory on life. I think play is like, we don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing.

32:54Yeah, in our job, it's George Bernard Shaw, I think, said it first anyway. But he's wrong. You get old. No matter what. He's full of shit. You're going to break a hip. Yeah, while that guy's advice, you're going to fucking roll your ankle for sure. Yeah, but maybe play in Twister when you're 70. Great. That's a good way to break a hip. But that thing of like going play is sort of in short supply. Because if you think about what anyone cares about, right? Like, people talk about sports all the time. People talk about concerts and going to see music. People love seeing comedy. And they love this kind of thing.

33:28But this is like play. We're playing and sports is playing and theatre is playing and comedy is playing. And there's not enough play in life. And really, I always think of that thing of like when I'm performing shows. Like, there's an illusion that it's me performing on stage. But actually, everyone in the room is performing. It's a performative thing seeing show. If you think about when you last saw, I don't know, Bruce Springsteen live. And Bruce Springsteen goes, how you're doing? And the whole place goes, yeah. If in Starbucks, someone goes, how you doing? Psychotic. You get kicked out. But there's the audience is doing their part.

34:08They're doing their bit and especially in our game in comedy. It's a, because the feedback loop, everything is split tested. Everything is, how do you feel about that? And the one audience member, you know, anything about comedy and jokes, get 100 of them together? Genius. They know exactly what's funny, what isn't funny, what's acceptable, where the line is. And you're, you're getting that feedback the whole time. So like doing comedy, it's not, it's not repetition. It's iteration. It's just that you're getting a constant sort of feedback from these, these people. It's a mind -difficent. It's a mind -difficent, right?

34:41Yeah. And people want it because they want to come out. Because, you know, it used to be would gather around a fire and do this, right? And then we gathered around the wireless. And we talked. And then we gathered around the TV. That's where you guys call the radio back in New Zealand, the wireless? The wireless. That was what it was called. For real? Yeah, for real. That was called the wireless. Wow. Yeah. And then you ever heard that? It's the wireless. Okay. That's like cellular coverage. Yeah. And then it's the, but then it's cell phones now. And we're alienated. We're more connected and less connected than ever.

35:16And then you go out, I was in the mothership last night doing Killtony. And that audience were like, it's church. Yeah, they're phones in a bag. They're not constantly distracted. Yeah. Yeah. It's so much better. It's like a lot of people don't like it because they don't like it to be disconnected from their little fucking binky, their blanket, whatever it is. They're pacifier that they have to carry around with them everywhere. We did a thing on holiday where we put our phones in the safe in the morning. And then came back and checked them in the evening. It's getting more difficult because everything, you know, the boy, God, you're listening to the music, everything's hooked up to this, the pictures, the camera, everything.

35:55But if you can. Yeah. Oh, my God. It's so relaxing. Yeah. I've talked about this before, but I broke my phone once when I was in Hawaii. And I had, I was on the night, which is a very small island. So I had to order it from Apple and then have it delivered. And it took like three days. So for three glorious days, I had no phone. And it was amazing. I was like, why don't I do this whole time and then right back to the phone? Hang on. You showed me just before the show. How many unanswered text messages do you have on your phone? Let's say you're right now. Yeah. I think you feel, I feel like you might be disconnected.

36:28Well, I have to be. Otherwise, I go crazy. Um, 610 unanswered messages. 610. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. It's important that you take care of yourself physically and mentally. Because if you refuse to get help, you're not just hurting yourself. You're hurting the people around you. It can impact your family, friends, even your colleagues. And you know, mental health has come a long way. Despite all our progress, though, there's still a stigma. And a recent survey 26 % say they avoided seeking mental health support due to fear of judgment. This mental health awareness month, let's change that.

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37:43Over 5 million people worldwide use BetterHelp. So you're not alone when it comes to seeking support. We're all better with help. Visit BetterHelp .com slash JRE to get 10 % off your first month. That's BetterHelp HELP .com slash JRE. So I just keep going crazy. You have to be somewhat disconnected. I've gotten good at like compartmentalizing. I don't want to talk to anybody right now. Just put it aside. And then that creates problems because then you get needy friends like everything okay, like how convenient respond. I can't get 100 messages. I can't respond. Sometimes you need peace more than you need attention.

38:30You just got to know your own brain. You got to know when you're overloaded. And I know where it is. I know like my overheat switch. I start to sweat. All right. Too hot. Turn to HD on. You know what I mean? So I have that same sense in my brain. I need boredom. I need a little bit of boredom. I had this thing recently I thought about. boredom is unappreciated serenity. Like travel. Like I'm traveling a lot at the moment. I'm on tour. And sometimes you're in an airport and there's nothing much going on. Just chill. Just sit. Yeah. That's something pop paint. Just sit and live. Yeah. Isn't it interesting that's like for creative types especially that's very valuable to be able to have some time where you just come up with ideas.

39:15But instead you just flood them with nonsense. Car accidents and boobs and just fast cars. Yeah. Just get just bombarded with overstimulating. And very little of it gets in. You know, if I think about like if I listen to a book on tape like a very interesting book on tape, that's one thing. But if I'm just like doom scrolling like how much good get how much like if I spend five hours of just looking at social media and looking at YouTube. What amount of good stuff is in there? Is there even 20 minutes of really fascinating shit that I absorbed in the entire day? Are you familiar with that? The concept of Lindy books.

39:59Yes. Like the idea of like how long something's been around is how long it's going to be around. So most of on the internet was produced in the last 24 hours. Right. And we'll be entirely forgotten in 24 hours. No one ever goes, oh, I got to show you my favorite TikTok from two years ago. Right. It just doesn't happen. It's like they do they're crazy. Yeah, it's disposable. Oh, no, I got to get away from you. Yeah, you want to show me old TikToks. You're a fucking psycho. Yeah, it's like, but it's that's the nature of it. It's right. Right. But like it's crime and punishment is not addictive. You know, the book.

40:33Yeah, because you know, but Twitter is yeah, fascinating, right? Isn't it fascinating? Well, it's something like very valuable. Some amazing piece of literature is not addictive. You know, I wonder, yeah, I wonder with that. I wonder, is it the that thing of order sucksly? Like the idea that brave new world, our power won't be taken from us by some overlords like in 1984 will give away our power for cheap dopamine. Yeah. And the problem with the world is there's a lot of cheap dopamine on offer. So, so you know, doom scrolling or it's the same as the is in a casino. And then but then there's real joy.

41:21If you go out and see live comedy, I think what we're we're drug dealers, right? Oh, yeah. And the two drugs, it's dopamine and serotonin. And the dopamine is you don't quite know where the punchline is coming. You know, there's a punchline, but you don't know quite where it's going to be. Right. And then there's the serotonin, the joy of laughter as well. And then you can get a fake version online or video games are like a proxy for the career that the kid isn't having. Right. There's levels and layers and then a big boss at the end. It couldn't be a clearer analogy or porn is a proxy for a love and sex.

41:53It's like that we go for the easy option. Yeah. But actually when you work for it, it's just better. Right. The thing is the easy option is available instantaneously. Like it's very difficult to go fight and war, but you can play Call of Duty right now. You just sit in front of your computer and then you're playing. You know, so this cheap version might keep you from having a life of adventure because it spoon feeds you bullshit versions of reality that are very addictive. Okay. So back to your work ethic. So the idea that you don't do that. You spend time doing difficult things. Yeah. Like the I got the cold plunge thing from listening to you.

42:35It's kind of interested in it and kind of chat his friends. I tried it and loved it, but you're putting yourself in a very uncomfortable situation in order for benefits later. Yes. It's kind of a sacrifice you make in the moment for something later. Yeah. What draws us to that? What makes us do that? The process. So knowing that other people are completing this process and having positive results and then sort of investing a little bit of time into it, either at a border or curiosity or whatever. And then you realize, oh, this is real. Like this is real in terms of like fitness. Like if you want to start running, you want to run a marathon, you're like, that's impossible.

43:12I can't even run around the block. Well, if you run around the block three days in a row, you're going to get better at running around the block. And if you keep that up for a couple months, you're like, holy shit, I'm getting around this block pretty easy now. And then you start expanding your runs and the next thing you're running a couple miles a day. And next thing you know, you're entering into a 5K. And the next thing you know, you're running a half marathon. And then you look back on that day where you couldn't even run around the block and you thought running was impossible. So there's a process and there's a process of improvement.

43:44But that process requires you to be uncomfortable. And most people are unwilling to be uncomfortable. So if you are willing to be uncomfortable, you will bypass most human beings in everything you do. Yeah. It's also it's that thing of like we like that prioritizing now seems to be the if you can prioritize later, if you can sort of Chris Williamson's got this great thing. We were chatting about it me and George Mac in here. It's amazing. He's great. He's the best. But that thing of like 24 hours ahead, like we've all got to serve someone in life. You've got to serve. And serving yourself in 24 hours is pretty good because it's that thing of like boozes the best example.

44:25Like drinking is your borrowing happiness from tomorrow. Yes. Right. So that in a very simple way, you know, like the reason also it's like predatory credit card rates, like the kind of rates that you get when you go to college and they give you a credit card, you're a moron and they get like 39 % interest or something like that. Something crazy. Yeah. That's what it's like. It's like you're not just borrowing money like your body's like, yeah, yeah, I'm going to need more. I'm going to need more than you spent. Yeah. I find that thing of like the it's whenever I feel anxious or depressed or any of those things.

44:58And we sort of think it's invariably with me. It's a hardware problem, not a software problem. So it's like, okay, have I slept? Have I exercised? Have I eaten correctly? Good way to put it. Hardware software. And then you go, okay, this is a hardware problem. But it's so hard to fix that when you're depressed. It's so hard to like, it's like, it's all very well for us to go, well, you know, go for a run and do some exercise and have a cold plunge. It's so difficult when you're in that. I'm very empathetic to that state. And I wondered, is it help that we slightly pathologize, you know, in our language, we say depressed and anxious, not sad and worried?

45:37I want, I mean, I think for some people, it's a, listen, you don't want to, you don't want to be trivialized mental health problems, but you go, sometimes it's just the human condition. We're going to worry about stuff. Certainly, you don't want to trivialize mental health issues. However, you also understand that there's a tremendous benefit to being physically active that is actually better than SSRI statistically speaking. So, what do you prescribe? Is it better to prescribe drugs or is it better to be real with a person and say, I know this is uncomfortable, but this is what you're going to have to do.

46:13And it sucks, but it sucks for everybody. And everybody has a test in life. And this is your test. Your test in life, you know, your test in life is not to try to win the Super Bowl. Your test in life is try to get up and not eat garbage today and drink a bunch of water and have some exercise. This is your test in life. Yeah. I think it's, it's not easy. Well, the, the issue is that you want to be, I think kindness is in, kindness is, it's the most wonderful thing. And here's the problem with kindness. There's a lot of kindness in the moment. Like, I've got kids, you've got kids, right? Your kids want, what do they want to do?

46:49They want to eat McDonald's and they want to watch TV. But, and you want to be kind in the moment, but you're going to have fat, stupid kids. Of course. So, you go, well, let's have some healthy food and let's read some books and let's run round outside. And maybe they don't want to do that now, but you got to, you got to be kind to their potential. Yes. Not just to that. And then you kind of obviously, you know, that kind of teaches you that. And then you kind of have to apply it to yourself because you go, well, they're not going to pay attention to what I say. They're just going to watch what I do.

47:19Sure. But then, you know, individuals that are struggling, you know, that the problem is if you don't know them, you don't know, like, what, what, what are they going through? Is this nonsense? Or is this like really serious? They had a really fucked up life. Or they just really self -indulgent and lazy. Like, what are we dealing with here? Like, what are we dealing with? Are we dealing with like tremendous depression because of like physical and sexual abuse and beatings and violence in the house? Are we dealing with that? Or are we dealing with some kid who their parents do it on them too much?

47:56And maybe the parents were super negative, which is very, that is very contagious. Like, if you have like very negative family members and then everybody in the family is always complaining, it's always something's wrong and someone did something to them and it's like, there's no joy. I don't think, no joy in real life. And maybe you do. I don't think you realize how much you help people. Like, having these conversations on here. They help me. I think they help all of us. We're all human beings. We all go through weird shit, just being a person. Yeah, it's not easy. And, but having these conversations.

48:29And, but I think there's something about you specifically, like the martial art stuff, the, it's a very alpha thing. And then your stand -up comedian and very admired by your peers. And you can have conversations about this stuff. And I think it really cuts through to a group that wouldn't hear that. I mean, for me that, that thing that you're saying there is about, it's about agency and empathy. And I think there's a problem in our society that we give agency to people we don't like and we give empathy to people that we do like. You know, so if there's like a right -wing Nazi rally, we say, they knew what they were doing.

49:11We give them agency. We punish them. And Elon Musk with the Hitler salute. Right. Okay. So we say, he knew what he was doing. Okay. And then if we really like someone, we give him empathy. And, yes, it's a great, and sympathy. And the issue is we need to give everyone both. Yes. Because you go, look, no one is going to care about you more than you. You need to take responsibility for this. And you need to, you know, you know, it's very, very tough because you want to be, you want to give that agency and empathy to everyone, to give them the tools to have a better life. Yeah. And the more happy people are, the more happy people there will be, it'll expand.

49:56It's not like, it's not one plus one equals two. It just, it's exponential. It accelerates. The more people are happy and enjoying their life, the more you will enjoy your life. And that's just part of a community. It's the natural human reward system that's set up to make sure that we all get along together. We continue to procreate and have a wonderful society until we meld with the machine, which is coming any day now. I hope you're ready. I don't know. You want to hear my heart take on AI? I would love to. All right. My heart take on AI is we were not made in God's image. But we so wanted there to be a God.

50:33We made one in our image. So if you think about the attributes of AI, it's all knowing, all powerful can perform miracles. It lives in a cloud. Sorry, is that God or AI? Wow. Yeah. So at the moment, I think it's an emerging God. Well, it's done at the moment. At the moment, it's the Oracle of Delphi. It's like a 10 year old right now, though. It's not even an adult. Yeah. And then where's it going to? Yeah. So the idea of like, the interesting thing about AI is it's the gap between me and who's the smartest guy. You know, Eric Weinstein used to be enormous. And then the gap is getting smaller because AI couldn't just, I can ask it.

51:18Yeah. Yeah, bitch, I got a little answers right here. Yeah. I mean, it's weird what's going on. You know, I had a, I had a gag about, you know, like a bit about, you know, universities, you know, the students are using AI to write their essays. And then the tutors are using AI to mark the essays. And then after three years, AI gets the job. It actually seems very fair. Yeah. It's probably what's going to happen. That what you're saying is very funny. It's like, it is accurate, though. It does seem to resemble a God. Well, I wonder, you know who Marshall McLuhan is? Of course, Canadian. One of the great, great lines of all time.

51:56Human beings are the sex organs of the machine world.

52:01Yeah. Oh, I got like 10 years. Yeah. That one gives, and I think that I gave a shortened version of it. I think it's even longer, but it's fascinating because it's so, it's never more true than today. Never more true. Like if, if we are really giving birth to AI, this is what I want. America's beverage companies are investing in America. We're American companies making American products with American workers in America's hometowns. We're local bottlers and manufacturers operating in all 50 states employing more than 275 ,000 Americans in good paying jobs, delivering for the nation because we believe in the promise of America and the people who make it great.

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54:02Just go to SimplySafe .com slash Rogan. That's 50 % off with your first month free at SimplySafe .com slash Rogan. There's no safe like Simply Safe. Under what will change? I'm very optimistic. So, 120 years ago, 95 % of the population worked in agriculture and they worked 16 hours a day and it was a very, very tough life. Then we moved to the cities and we worked in factories and the unions, they don't get the credit they deserve. They gave us the weekend. Now we think human beings work five days and we have two days off. That's how? That's the world, right? But it's different. It's changing now.

54:46It's going to change again and we'll look back and go. I mean, we're incredibly privileged that we're born right now. And here it is. Man becomes, as it were, the sex organs in the machine world, as the B of the plant world enable it to condicate and evolve ever -new forms. Oh, for condate, rather. Machine world reciprocates man's love by expediting his wishes and desires. Namely in providing him with wealth. It's not as eloquent as the sex organs machine world. I think, I think you nailed it. I mean, my version of it's a little better. It's his words. I think we're the electronic caterpillar that's going to become a butterfly.

55:26That's what I think. I think we're giving birth to a new form of life. That's what I think we're doing. I love that thing with that book, The Beginning of Infinity. I can't get over that. Woodbook is that? Who wrote that? It's a beginning of infinity. I think it's David Deutsch. And it's the, can you, yeah, can you try there? What's the beginning of the book? So the idea of the beginning of infinity is that if we can get through this phase in humanity, right, there's been 100 billion people so far, 110 billion. There's 9 billion at the moment, 8 billion, 9 billion. If we can get through this, if we can get off planet, maybe there are trillions of people in the future trillions, maybe humanity spreads out across the galaxies and the universe for the next 13 billion years.

56:13Like the idea that if we can get through this now, this little phase that we're in, we're having a little bit of difficulty here with a couple of possible problems. And if we can get through it, the scientific meme, the idea that we've created these machines, but really through science, like the technology that we have is brilliant. And if we can negotiate, if we can have a little bit of peace in the world, if we can avoid the war. And really, avoiding the war, I think is possible. I think the most, all right, here's the take. I think the most incredible piece of technology that we have. I'm very optimistic about the world.

56:57You could look at the state of the world and go, it's terrible, but I look at America, I look at the UK, and I look at the footfall. So where do people want to come? Well, they want to come and they want to live here, right? And what's the most important piece of technology in America? I would argue the constitution. The constitution, you just sort of don't think of it as a piece of technology, but it really is. And it's allowed all of this. It's an operating system. It's a brilliant operating system. And you can prove that culture is downstream of institutions and freedom. Because you go, look at, okay, here's the great examples, right?

57:35Eastern West Germany, North and South Korea. Right. Exactly the same people. Right. Exactly the same. Culturally. And they got this system, they got this system, Eastern West Germany, you got the starsy over here, hell on earth, North Korea, whatever that fuck is going on there. And then you get South Korea, I mean, flourishing. Right. Incredible culture. You get West Germany. I got another one. Craftwork. Cuba and Miami. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly right. 90 miles away. But okay, so here's the thing. How many people in the world now? Nine billion? Eight billion? It's a lot. Something, right? Half a billion.

58:11Okay, so there's the UK, there's the US, there's Canada, there's Australia. Okay, they're all, I mean, ex -British colonies. Yeah. Yeah. I'll take the win. But those institutions, those institutions are set up in a certain way that's allowed flourishing where people want to come here. Yeah. Okay. So either we accept nine billion people into our countries or we export our institutions. I think we should be, we should be writing or coming up with great constitutions for nations that we want to see in the future. You and I think very much alike. I've said the same thing. I think the thing, the highlight when people are talking about immigration into this country, one of the big ones is it wouldn't you do this if you were in another world?

59:06Of course, of course, I would. If I lived in the third world country and had a chance to make a better life and come to America, 100 % I would do it. But the, the real question is, why is it so bad over there? And what can we do to make that better? Instead of bringing them in here to make their lives better, why not make the whole world? It's possible to make the whole, the only problem with that is you lose your cheap labor. Okay. Well, I, I mean, it's the, it's the right wing in America, the, the, you know, the idea of going, okay, we're going to get rid of the southern border to bring in cheap labor is a crazy idea because all we're doing is we're, you know, we outsource our, and this problem has been, what is was ever thus?

59:46George Orwell was once asked, what do you think of the British working classes? And he said they live in India.

59:55It's a smart guy, but you go, that globalization, the idea of going along with tech help. But it's the idea of we go, we often export our, our, our, the things that we're conscious about. So we go, okay, so we're going, we, we shut down all the coal mines in the UK. And now we import coal. Okay. Is that, I mean, one better, it's one world we live in. Right. Then I even under union rules. Yeah. Yeah. So you're getting, like, unethically source coal. It's the whole of humanity matters. It's the, it's the, that Derek Parfits, that brilliant guy who, who is a philosopher. He wrote this brilliant thing called reasons in person.

1:00:33So it really, and it's kind of about that idea that you, you've got to care about humanity temporally and spatially. You've got to care about people in the future. And you've got to care about people everywhere. Yeah. And the idea of you go, look, we've got to make the places people are fleeing from, livable. And I think we have proved over the last 50 years, regime change is not what we're greater. Right. So it comes down to one of these days. Sure. Just give it a chance. Sure. It's like the first car wasn't a good car either. You know, but now we have really good cars. It just takes time. Sure.

1:01:06Sure. Sure. Sure. I just need to practice more. Here's what I think it is. Agency and empathy on a global scale. Yeah. So it's like giving those nations that are in horrific trouble. And that no one seems to care about agency. Yeah. But maybe it's that, that thing of like going the, the American constitution. I don't know where it was written, but it was like, I think it was like intellectuals from around the world were like chipping in with ideas. And they came up with this incredible document. And look at the flourishing that's come out of it. Look at what it's achieved. Like imagine if, imagine if something like that happens in China.

1:01:45Imagine in our lifetime that they go with the different system. And it's more because at the moment China's kind of, you know, it's a covers band. You know, it doesn't, it takes a lot of intellectual property and it has its own version of Facebook and its own version of Google and its own version of, but it doesn't. What is it about America that that that allows this entrepreneurial spirit that allowed Silicon Valley to happen? Well, they've got an interesting approach because they still have a very entrepreneurial spirit as well. They've got a weird sort of a merging of communism and capitalism.

1:02:23Like it's state -run capitalism. Like, but they still have insane innovation. Like China's technological innovation is probably greater than ours in a lot of areas in the areas of electric vehicles for sure. In the areas of drones for sure. I don't know if you saw this, but there, there was some sort of mothership drone that they're going to launch that is this enormous vehicle that can, that drones can launch off of. And okay, I mean, this feels like. Yeah, it's dangerous. It's like they have some spectacular drone capabilities. And they also have electric cars that if you don't follow these obscure car review people online that review Chinese electric cars, you'd have no idea.

1:03:14Like these cars are insane. They have cars that do like a 360. Like it'll sit there parked and it'll just spin in a circle if you want to. So if you want to take a U -turn instead of having to go all the way around, your car will just spin around in a circle and go back the other way. Weird stuff, man. Like insane technology inside the vehicles, like spectacular looking cars, yeah, they're on the verge of, you know, passing us in many areas because there's a lot of regulation in regards to drone technology in particular in this country. If you want to be a drone pilot, is that going to, is that going to change now?

1:03:55I don't know. Ukraine. I mean, that's the first drone wall. I don't know. It's all scary. You know, the drone thing is weird because if you allow everyone to have drones, like you'd get that sometimes where like you see people dealing with drones over their house. Like is that legal? Can you just fly over my fucking house with a drone? Turns out it is. Turns out it is legal. How much of it as well? Like, I mean, talking to the right guy here, but how much of the alien stuff that we watched in the 1950s and 60s was that technology being tested in America? So this is the drone mothership. This is the drone mothership that China has created.

1:04:30So this is the normish ship that can send thousands of drones off. Do you think it would be sensible for you and I to pledge allegiance to the Chinese Communist Party now? Sort of sort of on the record. We should learn just in case. I think it's a good time to learn Mandarin, I think. Wow. That John Cena was right. Look at that. 25 meters wide. Wow. That's wild. That's big. Yeah. I mean, I feel like the quarter of a football field. I don't know. So it's war is changing, isn't it? I mean, it's yeah, but it used to be, I suppose it's always changing. It was used to be guys and you wear blue. We'll wear red.

1:05:12We'll line up and then we'll just smash it out and there was those days or over. But there was no civilian casualties. It kind of worked and then there's guerrilla warfare and there's what's going on now and there's the drones and yeah, here's okay. Here's a weird question, right? Okay. Okay. So the assassination of JFK, people are absolutely fascinated, right? Sure. And what's been released and what's no one seems to care about the guy that shot Trump? I think they do too, but there was very little information. It's available. And we're we're hoping there'll be more information now that cash betel and Dan Bongino or in the FBI.

1:05:51But I'm not, I saw them recently talk about Epstein. They're saying that Epstein was he definitely committed suicide. I'm like, definitely. Because especially, but like, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, you know, that, it's the terrible kind of that the lag from COVID, the, you know, the long COVID from a psychological perspective is trust. We've lost a lot of trust because anyone that said it was a lab leak at the time was a maniac. And then, you know, so you go when they tell us, oh, no, no, we commit suicide, you go, well, it's hard to believe now. Yeah, well, it's also it's way worse than it was a concerted effort that's was coordinated.

1:06:33And you could follow the paper trail now. Like what used to be a conspiracy theory is now just facts like that, you know, there was one thing that came out where. Well, it's the difference between a conspiracy theory and a fact is five years now. Find out who did it was Yale. Yale did a study before the vaccine was even released where they were running the effects of shaming people to try to coerce them into taking a medication to decrease vaccine hesitancy. And I think there's there were there were running terms like trust the science. It's it's it's crazy because it's the it's the baby in the bath water because they did that.

1:07:22And then you go and then there's there's going to be more measles in America. And more kids wearing glasses that thick and going deaf from measles because they're not taking the good vaccine. So it's it's it's for me, it's like that idea of trust is such a, you know, we talk about institutions and the constitution and the checks and balances and we we need trust in our society. That's one of the great things that came out of again, that's the Catholic Church. Well, the real problem in this country when it comes to things like vaccines is we have narratives and we have narratives that all of them are bad.

1:07:56We have narratives that all of them are good and trusting the science. We have these it gets strange. And then when the real problem in this country happened when they absolved all pharmaceutical drug companies from any sort of liability for vaccines. And they did that because vaccines have side effects. Even if they are effective, they have side effects. It's part of the good and bad about them. There's going to be some people that have so they were getting so many lawsuits that they were threatening to no longer produce vaccines. So during the regular administration, he gave them black and immunity.

1:08:33And then they started doing things like prescribing hepatitis B shots to babies, which doesn't make any fucking sense. It's a sexually transmitted disease. You get from dirty needles and sex and you're giving that vaccine to babies and it's kind of dangerous. And they did it because people weren't taking it. And so then you get a thing where you're just trying to profit more. And because you have this blank in immunity, you're taking advantage of this position, which is what corporations do. Yeah. I mean, they're motivated by profit. Here's the simple solution, like super simple. Ban advertising for medications.

1:09:12Only it's New Zealand and America that allow pharmaceuticals to be advertised 100 percent. And you go, well, what are we doing? Well, it's unnecessary. Well, the real dark part of that is not that people get influenced to try these medications or to trust in these medications because of the advertisement. The real problem is it's such an immense part of the network's revenue that they will no longer do investigations on vaccine side effects or pharmaceutical drug side effects or do stories about things like vio. But we've got it all from the market. We've got it. We've got it. We've got to motivate those companies, right?

1:09:51It can't just be the profit because it's like the thing that I worry about is antibiotics. Right. So antibiotics are what an incredible piece of technology. Yes. But people used to die from a fucking rusty nail, snagged them and they would die, right? So modern medicine has given we have to look at what's what the positive side is. There's a immense positive side for pharmaceutical drugs. And you're talking to a man in his 50s with a hair transplant. I've had a bit of work done. Don't even start me on the Viagra. I've got a lot to be thankful for for medical science. Yeah. So a big farmer. Great.

1:10:23They've done a lot of good. And then and then but other stuff. The antibiotics. There's things that are resistant now to antibiotics. They need new antibiotics. But there's nothing in it for the pharmaceutical companies to invest in that. So I think that at a governmental level needs to be given the money to do it. Right. If you have oversight to make sure it's not fraud and waste. And that is a problem when you give people money. But what you're saying is 100 % true. There's undeniable good that comes from pharmaceutical drugs. The problem is not scientists and not medical science. So you have medical scientists that are constantly trying to figure out new ways to stop Parkinson's disease, new ways to cure cancer.

1:11:08All this is wonderful. But then you have the money people. How do we get this out there? And how do we maybe get this out there before it's ready? Maybe we just fucking tell people it's ready when it's not. Maybe a fudge a few tests. Maybe run some really fucking sneaky studies where you're only analyzing things in a certain very particular lens because you want them to be shown to be effective. But you go look, you know, and I don't mind people if someone comes up with a cure for cancer, they should profit. I don't mind if they can be a trillionaire. But the thing is they're never satisfied. When you have a publicly traded company, they never are satisfied.

1:11:45They never go, guys, we're doing great. If we just make this amount of money every year, like, that's wonderful. Let's just like, let's hang back. I think our profits are very high. Let's do good. Let's try to do the most amount of good. No, no, no, no, no. It's an interesting thing where socialism has become such a dirty word. But everyone agrees to some extent, right? There's areas of life where you go where there has to be a level of socialism. So contribution. We have to contribute. Okay, the fire service is great. I use the same one all the time. But everyone agrees, right? Okay, if your house burns down, okay, we're going to have a fire service and it comes and it's not like, oh, we don't take care of that.

1:12:26Public education. Well, I think education, I think we could get there sooner because you look at some of the stuff that's available online now and it's just, it's incredible. It's like, it's, it's there. I mean, I, I slightly think on education that we should do the right thing, right? Instead of pumping the economy by printing more money and quantitative easing, I think America and the UK should cancel all student debt because we missold people some bullshit degrees, right? 100 % and the idea that student debt, right? So you're taking those people that took a chance and they went to university and they gave their time and they studied hard and there's, there's a theory that woke came out of elite overproduction.

1:13:13So they, people did everything right. When school, they studied hard, they went to university, they studied hard, they got a degree and then they, they can't buy a house. They can't, because you know, maybe, maybe the degree doesn't grow corn. It's not in a STEM subject. It's in the humanities or something and then they, they don't get the lifestyle that they worked hard for. I think we cancel their debt. I mean, I don't want to sound like a communist here, but free education is not crazy because it's not crazy at all. It's, it's an asset to your society. If you say, if you say, as a university and subsidized business in America, at least, the giant subsidized business, they're not going to let it go.

1:13:51The reason why there's a really strong reason, why it's pretty, why went, when I went to university, it's a really strong reason why it's the one debt you cannot absolve in America, even with bankruptcy. Why? Because it's a scam. It's the dirtiest thing ever. Because look, if you're a 45 year old man who's taking a lot of risks with your business and you go bankrupt, you're absolved. You're, but you're an educated person with a lot of life experience and you did risky things and you failed, you're allowed to go bankrupt. But if you're an 18 year old kid and you assume of $200 ,000 for year loan to go to Harvard, you're going to pay that forever for the rest of your life.

1:14:30And it gets interest. It compounds. Evil. I can't see the downside in the, because you go, this is the richest nation, not just in the world, this richest nation, there's ever been. And you go, an investment in, and maybe you change it. And you go, well, actually, universities are a lot more difficult to get into now. Because it's going to be free. So it's going to be, it's going to be super difficult to get in it. It's still difficult to get into. Even if it's expensive right now, it's not easy to get into a gale or Harvard. It's very difficult to get into it. It's, that's not going to help you.

1:15:02The, the, the real problem is always going to be the fact that you're paying so much money when you're too young to know what that even means. You're too young to be connected to $50 ,000 debt when you're 18. You don't know what it means. You're 18 years old. You don't know what that kind of debt means. And the fact that it's going to follow you around forever and haunt you. But also, it's let it's the middle class and upper class kids that can take on that kind of debt. Right. And the working class kids. And the poor, the haves and have nots forever. But, but, but education was the great kind of equal.

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1:17:38Don't think wireless can be so transparent, so Visible will now you know. Switch today at Visible .com slash Rogan. Terms Apply. See Visible .com for planned features and network management details. Right? Because you were able to change your social class through, you know, if you go to school and you work hard, you go away. Education should be, listen, I'm not saying that there can be equality because I think we're all born with different gifts, right? Yes. You and I disagree about work ethic, but the idea that we're all born with different attributes, right? So there's never going to be equality, but the opportunity to educate yourself and to do better is like that sort of part of the American dream, isn't it?

1:18:21I don't even think we disagree about work ethic. I think it can be acquired as well. I'm sure it's probably heritable and somewhat. It's probably very cultural too, but I think you learn it too. I think you've learned it. I think what you've done in martial arts, how you do anything is how you do everything. I look at what you've done with the mothership. I look at your comedy career. I look at how you treat your body. Everything's the same. It's the same. You've got to work ethic that's very consistent across different fields. How you do the podcast, if you missed a week, ever, like you're just very consistent with stuff.

1:18:58Well, that's the key to getting better at things in life. It's not always fun, and this is what people have to understand. You're not always going to enjoy what you do if you have a process. I'm doing my best here, Joe. Sorry. Yeah. You're doing great. The process at the end of it, though, is what you're looking for. You're looking for results. And if you want to, the people that can get results are the ones that can go through the most difficulty. Well, I think, yeah, that thing of what you're, and then you just sort of enjoy, I don't know, I think that thing of ambitious, like the process is so enjoyable.

1:19:33The process of like becoming a better comic is such a joyful experience where you just go, at the end of every show, I take out at no pad and try new jokes. And you just go, that iteration of like getting better and, you know, for a new one works, it's the most exciting thing in the world. Yeah. Just absolutely love it. And you kind of go, and it's, I forget if it's teleical, anti -telical, I don't really know what that, but it's a task without end. It's just you keep on doing this thing. Yes. And it's just, and you just, there's no end in sight. There's no, it's not like you're arriving at this perfect state.

1:20:11Yeah. It's the, I suppose it's, it's the idea that it's kind of messy, but it's, it's lovely to kind of, you feel yourself progressing. And you, you should enjoy the process, the process of uncomfortable feelings and a little bit of pre -show anxiety, and then doing the show, and then things go great, or things go badly. Sometimes things go badly is even better, because then it forces you to like really, like, intensely look at the set, and like, okay, why did that joke bomb? Like, what, what went wrong here? Like, what is it about it that it's, let me like deconstruct this thing? A dude, do I have, like, if I've been doing it this way out of habit, I think there's something in the idea it's worked before, so what is wrong?

1:20:53And it'll make you like, put much, much more attention to a thing. Yeah. I think that, well, I think that thing in comedy, like, failure is your friend. Oh, yeah. Failure is, you kind of, you make friends with it, and you're kind of okay with it. Yeah. And then in life, it's like, you're able to take chances and kind of mess things up and go, it's all right, give it another go. Yeah. Yeah. There's, that's the martial arts thing. We win or we learn. Yeah. When you win, you kind of learn that the process is going well, you know, that you have competence, you're, you're good at it now. And then it motivates you to continue the process, but losing is like so horrible that you have to like completely reassess what you're doing.

1:21:35And oftentimes you amp up your intensity and amp up your dedication, because you don't want to feel the pain of losing again. The same with the bombing set, like some of my, if I look back on my early career in comedy, some of the big leaps I had, it was after horrific bombings. Right. Give it a, like a year or so. Yeah, you have a horrific bombing. And then you go, oh my God, I might not even be able to do it. I got a really fucking focus. Because Brian Simpson said something really funny the other night in the green room. He said, the thing about being a comedian is you can't be a shitty boss and a shitty employee.

1:22:08Oh, yeah. I was like, oh, you just nailed it. Brian's one of those guys. He drops those gems like that. He'll just like, out of nowhere. Like you gotta always listen when that guy is ready to drop a gem. That's a gem. Because as a comic, no one's telling you what to do. What's interesting, you're responsible for yourself. I did kill Tony last night with Tony Hinchlev, who's at once the meanest motherfucker in the world. And also the kindest man in comedy. Yeah. Because you look at the careers that he's launching. Like every, every three, four weeks, he's launching like a new name. And then they're touring and they're playing clubs and they're having a great time.

1:22:48And it's, it's that thing of like, you can't beat your environment. So to be around people, not just that you like, but that you want to be like. Sure. So you're creating this little thing, this little space like the, the, the mothership's got this little community around it now of people that they want to get better. And they're, they're looking around. And it's, you know, and you came here because Ron White was here, right? I mean, in, in no small part. A big part. And then you built this thing. And it's, it's fields of dreams. Look how many people are coming. And then I'm very excited to see in 20 years.

1:23:25Yeah. Who comes out of this scene? I've just, I actually flew in on Sunday to go down C. Chappelle. So I went to C's new club in Yellow Springs. I heard it's great. I mean, it's insane. But that club only exists when he's there, right? Yeah. I think it's only like he runs shows when he wants to run shows. I think it's going to become something more than that. I think it's, I think that's what he's, he's planted a seed there. Yeah. And I think it's going to grow. And it's a small town, but it's a town with a lot of pull. It's like the, it's almost too beautiful a town. Yellow Springs, you kind of walk through and go, it's like the Steppard Wives.

1:23:59It's like so perfect. You know, he's got playing this weekend. Who? The whole of the Wu Tang clan. I can know. It's a 220 cedar, okay? I think it may be one of the few occasions where more people are on stage than off stage. The audience may be smaller than the band. Yeah, Wu Tang can stack it in there. That should be wild. Yeah, that'd be amazing. It's going to be wonderful. Yeah, that's Dave. He's a, but he draws people. He's a magnet, you know, he really is. Yeah, he's a beautiful person. Very, very unusual human being. I don't know anybody like him. No, he's a, he's a unique. Well, as a you, you're non -fungible human beings.

1:24:40There's no one else you go. He's a bit like that. No, it's just, he's, he's the only thing. It's a wonderful thing. There's a, there's a real, like, I think in comedy, that thing we're out for ourselves, but in it together. Alan Havi told me that. That's great. I remember thinking it's kind of true because we're all in this business and there's like, sometimes you see comics arguing or, you know, shit talking other comics online or something. You go, what are you doing? There's a, the narcissism of small differences where people go, oh, I don't like his observational stuff or he's hacky or something.

1:25:13You go, we're all in the same business. Yeah, most of those people are just jealous. That's just a pettiness. It's always people that are, they think have success that they don't deserve. No one ever hates you for doing worse than them. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. It's all silly. It's really silly. It's foolish. And unfortunately, some of them are good comics, dude, that are doing it. It's like, they, but they don't have any friends. They're islands, right? And one of the ways that I describe comics, I go, you're either, like, a villager in Ireland and villages do way better than islands. So an island is a man on, on his own out there to just his own shows and doesn't, has an opening act and doesn't hang out with comics.

1:25:51There's a lot of those guys and unfortunately, they, they have the same opening act that that guy that becomes his job. He's just an opening act now and he only works when he works with the headliner and then they travel around the country and the guy never, and then you, you watch the act deteriorate, you watch the act start to fall apart and get softer. Well, this is, this is want, you know, it's the, the great thing you've done is it thrown down a, a rope bridge, you know, then you throw down the bridge and you bring people with you. Well, what we did is create a real workshop in a real community where there's an actual path.

1:26:24Like, there's a path from open mic night, which we had, we have two nights a week to becoming a door person where you can get spots occasionally and you'll be watched by the best talent coordinator in the world. Adam, Adam Egan. He's the best. He's the best. He's in Hawaii this week. I'm missing him. Oh, well, he'll be back. No, he's, he's coming to London to see Oasis with me. Oh, is he really? Oh, wow, that should be incredible. Oh, we're going to hate each other. They hate each other with their touring together. No longer. Yeah, but I think there's a, I think there's a lot of money. There's, there's an amount of money you can put down and go.

1:26:56You should get known on this show. I would love to know is so fun. I love them. I love them. But so the back to the mothership, the thing about it is we, we set it up to be a place where people can develop and, and show them a path. And then there's Killtoni, which is the perfect like anchor of the entire community because of Killtoni, you get to watch people that do their first time ever on stage or maybe they came from Seattle. They've been kind of struggling for five years and they do a one minute on stage and also they get a golden ticket and then also they become a regular on the show and then also they're selling out over the country.

1:27:34And then you're in this group of people that are like really enthusiastic about this art form that I think is one of the most underappreciated yet very respected and very loved art forms. It's really paradoxical because on one hand it's dismissed as being like a bunch of fools. And on the other hand it's like everybody wants to go see a good one. Yeah, who's it? Who's dismissed by? I mean it is that thing where you go. It's I think because it's a sense of humor is whatever that there's that great old quote of laughter is the shortest distance between two people. I think there's a real connection to comics because you laugh with your friends and your family and you laugh with this comedian.

1:28:12And if you think about friendship, I think about friendship like filters. If you sit next to someone on a plane, you got a lot of filters. Right. You chat about the weather or the local sports team, whatever. And then you get really close to someone. You got no filters. Your best friend of the world is you got no filters with. I think comedy is not respected because most people can talk and most people are funny occasionally. So they think I could do it. But most people can't hit a fastball. Most people can't play tennis like a professional. Most people can't do that. So you watch someone do that and you go, I can't even do that.

1:28:44But you see someone on stage talking like I can talk. What's what's so hard about that? I just have to figure out the right words to say and I can be Jimmy Carr. Right. Right. Because everybody can talk. I think that's part of the problem. That's why it doesn't get appreciated the same way music gets appreciated. So like if there's plagiarism in music, like there's so there's so many songs where a lick in the song just one thing about the song and then the people like a bittersweet symphony. They had to give all their money to the Rolling Stones. Yeah. Yeah. They didn't make any money from that song.

1:29:16Nothing. Oh, the weird one was the was it blurred lines was and it wasn't even that it was the same it was the same feel as a Marvin Gaye song. Same feel seems like a stretch. I don't remember that one. I thought they did decide that it was like the beats were copied. But you know, I've talked to friends that are musicians and like listen, there's only so many different ways you can put together a beat and rhythms. It's like you're going to get similarities all the time and it doesn't necessarily mean that it's plagiarism. But plagiarism in comedies like outwardly dismissed. Like there's no lawsuits but yet comedians.

1:29:54No, it's self -pleasing though. It's self -pleasing. It's like if someone does that you go. I mean now. I think that's the first time I ever saw you was cooling out. Yeah. But before that a lot of people got away with it, man. A lot of people built careers off of plagiarism. Well, even the great Rob Williams had that had that reputation. Yeah. He did. Because it was it was doing kind of this other thing. I don't know. Well, it's like when you're just free -balling you get stuck. You just take somebody else's stuff. In fact, then there was no internet. So there's no accountability. I think that's just the big part of this equation is the internet comes along and there's you know, there's been so many instances of a a comedian's career now like really fucking crashing because the internet sleuths they start looking at it and they go no, no, no, this is this came from that.

1:30:40That came from this. Yeah. Like her special here is like his this is his bit. This is her bit. These are this is all plagiarized and just reworked or shit. Yeah. I think because how do we can tell is when they have another special after them and called out and then it's horrible. Right. There's just no content. Well, it's that thing of like you have to give the world irrefutable proof you are who you say you want. You know, if it's one joke, fine. If it's 10 ,000 jokes you got, okay, this is something. I mean, we spoke about this last time that thing of because I'm working on a thing with my friend Amanda Baker and Abby Grant.

1:31:14They came and they taught at the mothership. Yes. Because we're trying to work on this book about like teaching comedy in this same way that people teach music like having a language of it and taking some of the alchemy and the mystery away from that and sort of thinking about well, what really, you know, they're not to not to say that it's like a something AI can do or a machine can do. But the idea of like teaching people the structure of it. So so that it's less kind of you know, hey, I just comes to me on stage. Right. Maybe codifying it a little bit more and I mean, I'm working with these two incredible women, Abby Grant and Amanda Baker on the on the book and it's it's taken a long time.

1:31:54But I do think it's something that if you could teach it in schools, the idea of comedy, even as opposed to music, which is wonderful to learn and you appreciate music much more if you've ever given the guitar a go because you can appreciate what they're doing. Yeah. But the idea of comedy is being taught because you go, well, it's you have to write down and order your thoughts. That's a value. You have to learn how to communicate and speak publicly. That's a value. And then you're speaking in your authentic voice and that the saddest thing most people live and die and they never speak in their own authentic voice.

1:32:27Yeah. It's a it's a it's a great thing to give kids I think. I think be a great thing to you know, if it's an after school activity, I would sign my kids up. Yeah, I mean, there's definitely value to it. And even if you don't have that style of comedy like a joke writing style, you'd have you're more of a storyteller, you know, like a Ron White type would tell stories. There's always value in learning different techniques to craft material and craft jokes. But I look at what runs in your toolbox. I mean, my love language is the one line. I like jokes and it's it's quite all fashioned in a way.

1:32:59Yeah. You know, it's like it's a very old fashion kind of way of and it's less about my life. But you're like a folk singer. Yeah. And then I'm trying to I've got a good fastball. Yeah. And then I'm trying to work on the the other bits. But that's kind of what I love about the industry because it's it's everything. It's you go. Yeah, I can get good at that. And then I can I can do like 20 minutes of fastballs. And then do I've started about a year ago. I started putting I started working with a videographer putting stuff out of like heck or videos and people talking to me. Yeah. And you go it's just such a joyful thing because it's almost like doing the stuff when you go just hit me whatever you want.

1:33:35I'll do anything. It's like seeing a magician do real magic because you kind of go right. Yeah, I've worked this muscle hard enough. I can write our right jokes live for you now. Have you done bottom of the barrel? No, what's bottom of the barrel? Bottom of the barrel is Brian Simpson show at the mothership where you have a whiskey barrel and you reach your hand into the whiskey barrel to pull out suggestions for topics. Oh, audience. The audience didn't point. Provenza used to have set list. Do you remember there was a set list? Yeah, but that was not provided by the audience. I don't believe.

1:34:07No, that was like that. And it was a bit a hat and a hat like sometimes it'd be just crazy things. But it was a bunch of different versions of that. There was another one stand up on the spot. There was an LA one where you have the audience like raise their hand and come up with it. But the problem with that one is then you encourage people to just yell out. And so while you're in the middle of talking about something, someone else will yell out of a different subject because they're just greedy and they just don't want. You know what I mean? You have to have a good audience participation in that one.

1:34:37But again, that thing of like going yeah, it's performative being in the audience. Yes. Like I always think that thing with hecklers. Like there's more hecklers in the UK like when you travel around the world like so I'm touring everywhere like all over America, UK, Australia, New Zealand that every territory. And you notice different places have different traditions when it comes to heckling. Like that's the biggest thing you notice when you travel. Like in North America, people are very slow to shout out during a show because they think they're, am I spoiling the show? Am I ruining this? And I actively encourage like I don't mind if it's a little bit aggressive because we're all in service of the evening.

1:35:11Right. We're all in service of like I don't mind if you win. Well, that's confusing for the audience because some people don't want any heckles. Yeah, sometimes it is like a... Some comics just want to, they have a set and they want to just perform their set. Yeah, I know I like it when people join. Like no one wants someone to talk over their punchline. That's a problem though because you're going into an agreement with a bunch of drunks and a lot of them are just, you know, they're not that smart in the first place. And so they don't even understand when to yell out. And so they're yelling out while you're in the middle of something else.

1:35:42Yeah. I mean, I'm very lucky with, I suppose it's that thing with you can, you know, it's self -selecting. Your audience come and they find you and it's... Sure, but sometimes crazy people just show up at your audience. Oh my god, yeah. If I had to compile, maybe I should compile a video of me kicking people out of shows. Well, now they know you do that too. So they probably look forward to doing it with you. And so you get kind of the wrong kind of people that are encouraged to yell shit out. No, I can't, I can't pretty good. Most of the time. Yeah, I get pretty good because I always think that's how it happens to phrenics.

1:36:15I don't have like, it's only like 1%. Yeah, I don't have that buying tickets. They should buy two tickets, shouldn't they? Sure. I don't think they think they're two different people. I think one for each person now. I think schizophrenia is just like your connection to the world is afraid. Yeah. Jesus. That, but for the guys that got... Yeah, we don't even understand what that feels like. And, you know, there's a guy who is schizophrenic that has the disease progressed. He was an artist. And as his disease progressed, you could see his art getting fucking weirder and weirder and more abstract and distorted.

1:36:51It's the most horrifying. It's a horrifying. It's one of the most. You know, there's a bunch of really horrifying ones, little Gary's disease, a bunch of different things that just you screw fuck. Again, gratitude. Just be happy that you don't have that. And that's another good, solid reason to try to take care of your physical body. Yeah. Make that pitch work for you. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, don't have it fucking malfunctioning. Well, if you're going to void it, I think kind of food is the thing. Well, food is the medicine before medicine. Like just trying... It's hard on the road. It is. This episode is brought to you by Paramount Pictures new film The Naked Gun.

1:37:30There's comedy and then there's The Naked Gun. It's in a league of its own. If the trailer is anything to go by, this new film does not hold back. Liam Neeson is Frank Treben, Jr. son of the celebrated police squad lieutenant from the original films. Let's just say you've never seen Neeson like this, nor Pamela Anderson or Paul Walter Hauser. A must watch on the big screen The Naked Gun only in theaters August 1st. The best way to do it on the road for me is Carnivore. I just only meet when I'm on the road. Well, I do that most of the time anyway, but when I'm on the road, it makes everything so much simpler.

1:38:07Just mostly just eat meat. Are you traveling much of the moment? No. You know, even when I did my last special, my Netflix special, I prepared for it entirely at my own club. And then I hadn't done any theaters at all in like a year and a half. Then I did the first Friday night at the theater. I'm like, oh, it's different. Because instead of doing like 200 people, I was doing thousands. I was like, this is weird. Like the timing's different, but I'm like, oh, okay, good. I got to find the timing's different in like, I often go from theater to arena. Arena time is really different. I tell you what, I got it from Chappelle.

1:38:41I was out in Australia on tour last time and I had like one night off, and Chappelle was in town that night. So I said, well, I'll go up with you. So I went up and he had it in the round. Yeah, that's how I do it too. I had so genius because it's like the thrill of, I don't want to, I don't want to say never, but I may never be a professional boxer. There, I said it. But walking into the, it's like walking to a ring because you've got like security around you and you have to walk through the audience onto the stage and up the steps. It's so thrilling. And then you put the screens above. And even in a 10 ,000 -seater, no one's more than, you know, 2000 seats back kind of thing.

1:39:19So you go, so everyone's got a great seat and you're kind of rotating and I just, I love it. It's incredible. It's also intimate in a weird way because the people are seeing the other people on the other side of them, which never happens. And they're seeing people laughing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hadn't thought of that, but they're seeing people laughing and it's that thing of going, okay, well, we're all, it's like an event where we're having fun together. It's, it's great. It's the best way to do it. It is although the timing that changes when you go, okay, it's a theater and it's like even a thousand -seater.

1:39:47I notice in the UK, sometimes like, you've got to let the palladium is my favorite place to play, right? The palladium is a theater that was built 120 years ago. So the fire regulations 120 years ago were, yeah, I hope no one dies. That's, there was the fire eggs. Good luck. There's doors. If there's a fire, I guess leave. So it's tight. It's like it's 2 ,200 people, but it's close to you. And then sometimes you've got a place that was built two years ago and it's beautiful and air conditioned, but the people are so far away because the seats and the aisles and everything's been built for safety.

1:40:22Yeah. So it's like, you would never get it, you couldn't build one of those now. Yeah. It's kind of it was, it was better when it was, they were all on top of you. Yeah, but then people died in fires, you know. Well, you've always kind of looked at the negatives. They should have a way to like open the wall in case of a fire. It should be a hinge. We just push the wall down every could just run out real quick. I can't engineer that in there. Like, you know what they do with the battleship when they let the tanks out the back of them. Yeah. I mean, yeah. How about that? That's a good idea. Yeah.

1:40:51Like a big old aircraft carrier. Like drop it. Yeah. Or fucking fire extinguishers everywhere. Like in the wall everywhere. Spray water on people. Yeah, just under under every seat. All over the ceiling. I mean, they do have that in some places where it's dangerous. You know, they have fire sprinklers that are built into the wall. I feel like we're getting close to the, we're getting close to the old bit of the, you know, that black box thing they have on our planes where it crashes. Oh, yeah. Everyone had the observation of just build the plane out of that. Right. What's that made of? Right. How about parachutes for planes?

1:41:32How about one of those? Is that hard to do? Parachutes for planes? Yeah. This is what happens to me. What happens to big ideas? How much would it cost? Yeah. What should it cost to have a big fucking parachute at the top of the plane? Where if shit goes totally sideways, pull it, float down to the ground. Is that possible? Is that an incredibly dumb idea? Or is that genius? It's both. It's both. I'm sure somebody else is thought of it. You know, yeah. That seems I mean, don't they have something like that on Air Force One where like if the planes going down the president can get to like a little compartment and it ejects?

1:42:09Is that real? Or is that like some movie shit? That might be some movie shit. See if that's real. I think there might be some movie shit, but that sounds like a good idea. Like what if Air Force One goes down? Like this was the online chatter about the president getting a plane from Qatar. We got a gift of a plane. Yeah, supposedly. Yeah. Like Air Force One does not have an escape pod in the real world. Okay, can we can we can we confirm is this the real world? Because maybe this is we think it is as far as how we're acting. Yeah, this is the real world. What do you what do you think about simulation there?

1:42:51I think it's more likely every day. The more time goes on the more I think it's likely. I really like it. Is this a plane with a pair of shoes? With a pair of shoes for small planes. I think some guys just manifest this. How did this pair of shoes planes? He googled it. It's pretty dope. So is this guy used this before? I don't that that that doesn't seem like it's happened, but they're maybe testing seems like a dangerous test too because you're after a plane if it doesn't work. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, all right. How would you test one of those? You'd have to have a bunch of planes. Oh, look, they did test it.

1:43:26Is that real or is that AI? That's real? Yeah. Oh, it seems real. Yeah. So you just need a real big one. A big one for a jumbo jet. It's still going to be a bump. It's going to be a bump when you land. Yeah, it's not. I mean, better than a ball of flame. What the fuck? Are you not going to land and then have a ball of well, you might. Yeah, listen, let's give it a go. Yeah, give it a go. Maybe you could jettison all the fuel on the way down so you could soak people's homes with jet fuel. It just bounces. There's no fuel on it to start a giant enormous fire. There's a reason. Look at this one. There's a reason we're not in charge of this.

1:44:01It's coming down. What the hell? Oh, look at that. It worked. All right. It worked. Yeah, but that's just taken. It's taken like that's taken force. I do not like the nose down approach. That's taken like four parking spaces. You just see two puddles on the windshield from the pilots. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Simulation theory. I like thinking about it because I kind of go, I've got such a crazy life. Right. Like I'm sorry. How could it be real? I'm sitting here with you. Yeah. I was shippell on sunday. What do you hear from the show last night? I know him a little bit from then. It's going, this feels like a cartoon.

1:44:37It doesn't feel real somehow. And yet you go, well, it's an interesting way to think about the world because you go, well, if it is, if this is a game, what's the scorecard? How do you win? And it kind of makes you think about, well, what's important in your life? What's the, you know, measurable and immeasurable metrics? Right. I often think about there's like, there's CV resume points. And then there's eulogy points. And often those things kind of conflict. You know, like the things that we, you know, career wise, you could have a great career, but if you don't have kids in a family, who's at the who's doing the eulogy?

1:45:15Who's who's speaking for you? What are the things that really matter? People that are great people that don't have kids in a family, but they have a lot of good friends. Yeah. I mean, that's the people going to miss them. Oh my god. I don't think it's a total requirement to be a, you know, actualized human being to have children. But I think it's definitely benefited me. But I used to hate it when people would say, like, you know, until you have kids, you don't know what the world is all about. Like, okay, for you. Like, how do I know what you've gone through? How do I know your perspective? Yeah, I'd kids.

1:45:47Yeah. But there's a lot of people out there with children that are fools. It's like, it's a nonsense way of living, of thinking that you have to have kids. And I think there's wonderful people that I know that are never going to have kids. But that thing of, it's fine. You can still have eulogy things. Yeah. Things that on, necessarily, it's not scorecard. It's not like he made a hundred million dollars. He wins when he's dead. Like, it doesn't matter. No one cares. Like, what did you do? Like, how did you, how did you treat people? How did you live your life? What kind of an impact did you have on your fellow man?

1:46:18Like, when you interacted with people, do they have a memorable experience with you? Like, your friends and people you worked with, like, oh, do you know Jimmy used to always say, you know, and do you sit around talking about them? I suppose it's that thing of like legacy now. It almost kind of is a secular religion for like what you leave behind. Yeah. Like, you sort of think of the, um, the afterlife. You know, I don't really believe in it in an afterlife, but it's the, the kids. When you be stunned if it was real though, like, I mean, I don't believe in an afterlife, but I would be so fascinated to, to beat, to have undeniable evidence.

1:47:01Like, to pass through, like, imagine if you were one of those people that had a heart attack and died and had one of those really crazy death experiences. I think back, I think there's that nearly clear. The near death experiences available to everyone in the form of DMT. Right. Because everyone has the same experience of this. Yes. Another realm, another world beyond. Maybe that's the way of talking to me. If it is, maybe that's it. Yeah. I mean, that might be it. That might be it. It seems familiar. That's the weirdest part about it. It seems familiar. It seems more real than here. Yeah. Yeah.

1:47:35So it makes you wonder, like, what is this that we're doing? I have a feeling that what I said before is correct about the electronic caterpillar becoming the butterfly. I think that's our, I think there's a bunch of different factors that are leading us to expand technologically. I think it's the primary thing that we do as a species. I think we're probably, that's what we're designed for. Just like bees make beehives and ants make ant hills. I think the curiosity of the human animal is always going to lead them to an artificial intelligence. It's far superior than its own just eventually, ultimately.

1:48:14It just takes a long ass time. Well, I mean, he's had a long time, but I mean, really, when did this hundreds of thousands of years ago started with stone tools? I mean, that's really what it is. It's all technology, right? Stone tools allowed us to kill things without using our teeth, and then we eventually figured out shelter, and then we figured out a way to maximize cooking things, cooking things, and then the amount, you know, our brains, you know, you're able to feed that. Yes. Of foods, a huge part. Like, what we're doing now, language and comedy. Yeah. I think there's no, I don't think it's like, there's different strains of kind of Darwinian evolution, right?

1:48:52So there's, there's for survival, right? And then there's reproductive. And I think what we're doing now, speaking, I think is reproductive. I think what we're doing is it's almost like peacock feathers, right? So you go, feathers initially weren't for flight. They were for display. Really? Well, that's the, that's the, the theory, is that well, how did feathers, because what was the point of a feather before it was for wings for flying? How would you get to that through evolution? Well, actually, if it was for display, first, if the peacock is using the feathers correctly, that was the original idea for display for mating.

1:49:29And to show that I have this, I have so much extra energy, I'll be a good mate to show the female. So much color and vibrancy and stuff. So why bird sing? I've got this excess energy. I'll be a good mate. Okay. So that thing, I hear a thing is a came from dinosaurs, though. Dinosaurs, they believe are feathered now. Yeah. Yeah. Which is so like, that's how dinosaurs were breeding, imagine? Yeah. Well, dinosaurs as well. The theory on why they died out is interesting. On the, they, they used to, so we randomly assign gender. And they assign gender as on the basis of temperature. So when the asteroid hit, it didn't kill all the, the dust didn't kill all the dinosaurs.

1:50:13What happened was every dinosaur was born female in the next generation because the temperature cooled. Some lizards still do it. They assign gender by what the temperature is. So at the temperature falls, you go, right, okay, everyone's female. And when the temperature is above a certain amount, everyone's male. So there's a generation of all female or all male, whatever it was, dinosaurs. What a flaw. Yeah. But you, but you would, but because your, the temperature we always assume is like, is static. And we don't see the geological changes over time in temperature. So I feel like the Yucatan meteor was like the inoculation from the universe.

1:50:49They had realized that this dinosaur thing is a fucking problem. Like no mammals are ever going to figure out how to make AI when you've got a 5 ,000 pound super lizard running around with a face the size of a VW bus is giant teeth on it. We're going to fucking wipe these things out. Is there another world where there's dinosaurs with AI because if they're coming with, fuck no, no, the dinosaurs never get to AI. You have to be super vulnerable to get to AI. Like you don't have a bunch of jack guys working at open AI. You notice that? Yeah, you have to be super vulnerable to get to AI. Well, it's a we think you said earlier about the idea of like, are are competitive advantage, right?

1:51:31You drop one guy in the jungle, you've fed the animals, drop 10 guys, and you have an apex predator, right? What cooperation is our superpower? And for me, cooperation is downstream of play. Play is everything. We're the playing animals. Some wrote a book about this late in the 1930s about how we are designed to play. Our culture is about play and kids play and you go, well, that cooperation is what leads to all of this. And weirdly, the Catholic Church, I didn't say this earlier, but the Catholic Church has got a lot to be, we've got a lot to be grateful for. Because in the 12th century, the Catholic Church banned cousin marriage.

1:52:12Really? And the reason they did it was because they realized the tribe was more important than the church and they hated that, right? So the unintended consequence was they said, you can't marry your cousin or your second cousin or your third cousin down to the sixth cousin. Really? And they broke the tribes. Now, when you break tribes, what happens? Will you form small family groups? And then you have to trust people. So trust builds. And then from trust, you get guilds and associations and a legal system and everyone. Because before that, it's like, well, you cousin, trust him. That's where it's family.

1:52:52The royal family, right? Back in the day, doomed the royal family. You know, we still got them. Yeah, but I mean, the old ones with the fucked up faces. Yeah, with no chin. Yeah, they look weird. Yeah, no chin, just into marriage, into marriage. So that's what was taken away. So the unintended consequence of that was more cooperation and people had to get on with other people than there was like, that's interesting. It's a smart way of engineering a society that then keep people from just being so tribal and insulated. Yeah, yeah. That's actually intelligent. And that's the Catholic church figure that out.

1:53:26The Catholic church. Right after they got the priest to stop having sex, the next move, right off to me, don't fuck it. I have to really pee because I overhydrated. Let's pee and then we'll come back. Okay. Okay. So you just given me a lesson on Catholicism and the benefits of play. Do you know that that's one of the things they talk about in jujitsu? Like keep it playful. It's one of the things that they say, like the graces in particular. They always talk about keeping it playful and keeping it playful is the way you learn the best. Roger lives in London. Yes, he's on the grace of all time. I mean, it's an incredible thing that you get to because the idea that those guys just changed the game, totally.

1:54:10Yeah, they changed martial arts. Like in more, martial arts has changed more since the invention of the UFC and the invention of the UFC was by Hori and Gracie. Hori and Gracie invented the UFC and that was in 1993. And since that time, martial arts have evolved more in these 30 years than they have in the past 30 ,000 years. That's fact. Well, the thing that I, the thing I love about it, I kind of want that to be an origination movie about the UFC. They'll fuck it up. Yeah, they'll fuck it up. It's better to just have a documentary. Yeah, that would that would be it. Yeah, but you don't want to have a movie.

1:54:49Even a documentary really should be like a Netflix series because it's going to require. I think I should star now. I could get Jack. You could get Jack. I mean, you could see the right people, you know, get Tom Hardy's trainer. Do you want to be I'm learning a lot about your English gangs. Oh, my, my, my friend, uh, Kristika, he's like, produced my movie, produced that as well. Fuck, that's a good show. Yeah, I'm friends with Guy Rich, you know, oh, he's the best. He's been on this. Yes. Yeah, he's amazing. He's a legitimate black belt, by the way. Yeah, legitimate Jiu -Jitsu black belt under Hanzo Gracie, which is there's like, um, certain levels of black belt.

1:55:26There's a lot of like great black belts that have a, um, their instructor. You just haven't heard of because there's so many great black belts out there now. But there's like legendary instructors where you hear like a guy got a black belt from Hicks and Grace and you're like, Oh, shit, that's a real black belt. Yeah, you got a black belt from Hanzo Gracie like, whoa. What the interesting thing for me is like the pre the invention of that, the bullshit in the 80s. Oh, yeah. Because we're about the same age. So like it would have been that thing of like, um, like Bruce Lee movies or, uh, the drunken master, you ever see the drunken master?

1:56:02Sure. That all those kind of movies. And then you'd be, I'd be like into martial arts and like watching those films. Incredible movies. And then there'd be such bullshit about, oh, there's this technique from this place and he can do, and none of it was tested. None of it was testable. It was like, no, no, no, it's like that great scene in, um, uh, once upon a time in, uh, what's that? What's the Tarantino movie? Once upon a time in Hollywood with Bruce Lee and Bruce Lee. Yeah. It's the funniest. Brad Pitt. Yeah. scene. It's just so good. But the bullshit that was talked about the one inch punch and that all of that stuff.

1:56:38Yeah. And then it was like, Oh, no, we're really going to test this. Mm -hmm. Yeah. It's like it met the real world. Well, I came up in that era of bullshit. There was like bullshit guys that like said they couldn't spar because they were too dangerous. They could kill you. And you know, we didn't like that. But that's the great line in the Tarantino movie, isn't it? When it goes these, uh, these, these, these fists, uh, if I kill a guy, it's murder. Yeah. Yeah. It's the same with everyone. Well, the Bruce Lee thing is the one of the things that I really didn't agree with. I loved Tarantino. I'm a giant fan.

1:57:14As a human being, I love him. And as a director, I think he's the greatest of all time. He is the most consistently exciting ground breaking psychotic films. I fucking love his movies. He changed the way I consume media. The problem is I know a lot about Bruce Lee. Oh, Bruce Lee, but he wasn't like that. He wasn't that arrogant guy. And I just think he's misrepresented. Yeah. There needs to be a great documentary on Bruce Lee. I mean, there's plenty of stuff. But there needs to be a definitive like a, you know, Netflix put together a beautiful thing because he was an icon like he was, he was so incredible Bruce Lee.

1:57:50Yes. But you know, Tarantino for me is a godlike like that movie, Cinemars Speculation. So I, I, you know, most people kind of do this thing of they watch new movies. So for new, because the dopamine of the new story, and they listen to old music. And I read that book, Cinemars Speculation. I went, I'm gonna just watch 70s movies. And I just started watching the old movies for this, because you forget. I mean, even if you have seen it, you've kind of, if you saw it 30 years ago, you remember one moment, you watched that and then listened to new music. So you kind of flip the thing. It's really good.

1:58:24Yeah. I'm really loving. I'm loving watching the old movies, but some of the old movies are fucking amazing. That could, the Quentin Tarantino book is just his incredible, incredible person that they come along rarely where someone just has this very unique and fucking aggressive sight of like their art. It's a vision. Yeah. I mean, I put him up with Kubrick. I think he's, he's that genius. She wanted to ask you about that. The Kubrick thing. I got told this fact. What? But okay. So I was, I got told this thing. And then I asked Tom Cruise about it. This is a, this is a good stuff. Tom Cruise about something.

1:58:58Okay. So I met Tom Cruise at a friend's wedding. And I said, Oh my god. I had nothing to say to Tom Cruise. So I said, I said, you made eyes wide shut with Kubrick. Yeah. Yeah. I did. I said, I heard he shoots everything. He shot everything with NASA lenses. So the reason he was able to shoot Barry Lyndon, you know the movie Barry Lyndon with Harvey Carton, amazing movie. It's lit by candle. There's no lights in that movie. He shot it by candle light. And the reason he was able to make it was because he had the best lenses ever made by humans, which were the NASA lenses that they took to the moon landing.

1:59:36So that was Hasselbad. So Hasselbad? Yeah. That's the company that made those cameras. Okay. But who made the lens? This is ice super speed. Okay. That makes sense. Okay. So he had these lenses. So Kubrick shot everything with these lenses. Now here's the question for you. Yeah. How did Stanley Kubrick get those lenses? Maybe at the NASA garage sale. They had in 1971 where they sold all the stuff on the front lawn. Okay. So the story I got told, which I want to ask you about, is they obviously is the middle of the cold war, right? And the moon landing was a flex by the Americans. It was a big deal, right?

2:00:16So they rehearsed the shit out of that. Who did they rehearse it with? Well, the best director in the world. So they brought in a young Stanley Kubrick. And he filmed the rehearsals. So they had to rehearse everything before they went up there. So I'm not saying the moon landing didn't happen. I think they definitely did happen. So who's saying that Stanley Kubrick filmed the rehearsals? I can't remember who told me this. That sounds like more shit. But how did he have the time? Sorry. How did he get the lenses from NASA? How did he get the lenses? He definitely had the NASA lenses. We bought them from NASA.

2:00:49Well, you know, he got paid genius mathematician, you know, I didn't know that. Yeah, he used to do complex equations in his spare time. Yeah, he was a genius, like a legitimate genius. So he probably had a deep connection to the scientific community. And he probably maintained that all throughout doing 2001. So, you know, Kubrick was so the way he would do films was there were so many layers to his films, like there's so many layers to the shining, you know. He said this brilliant thing about movies. He said, don't, you know, if you want to, if you want to tell a story, make people feel something they don't have a name for.

2:01:31So there's so many bits in the shining. They don't make sense. Right. Like the geometry of the room doesn't make sense. But it kind of forces you to really see something. Yeah. Like so much of our life, right, is we're not really seeing things. I think it's the gift of being a stand -up comedian. We get to see things. Mostly, guys of our age are just remembering things. Right. They don't have a lot of other experiences. It's, well, they're having a very repetitive, you know, if you commute every day to the same office, you don't remember 365 days, you're kind of one memory and then you're just on repeat, whereas if you have unique experiences, it's not that we don't have enough time, we just waste a lot of it and we don't, we want unique novel experience.

2:02:14And so part of the reason I travel the world is to have unique novel experience and to see things in a different way. And sometimes when you, you know, you watch like a Kubrick or a Tarantino movie, you can, he's just seeing something in such a pure way. Yeah. It's incredible. Yeah. It's a unique artistic vision that makes you just sort of, it just takes you out of mundane existence and go, wow, this guy, like 2001, it's such a weird movie, man. I saw it again last year. I hadn't seen it a long time when I watched it again. I was like, God, imagine making this film and like, what was it? Like 60?

2:02:48What year was it? It's 76. No. Was it 70? Yeah, it's 79. No, it's 70, 78. What? Yeah. So it's before the moon landing. And it's all going on at the same time, which 68. It's incredible. Yeah. Because it's kind of futuristic now. Yeah. There's that weird thing of like, you've read, uh, it's weird that the monkeys when they find the monolith. Yeah. You know, it's like, I have very bizarre theories about the evolution of the human animal itself. What do you think? I don't, I don't necessarily think it happened without help. I have a feeling that we were assisted. I think that's one of the reasons why we vary so much.

2:03:34We were just like dogs. You know, dogs are so we've got dogs vary so much, but dogs came from wolves. Yeah. Every dog came from a wolf. It does strike me as like, it's a very strange thing. How long humanity has been here? And how recently, like 10 ,000 years ago in northern Japan was the first settlement. And how quickly things and progress. I don't think, I don't think we're right about that. And I think, no, there's an interesting, there's a bunch of interesting guys, but there's one that I still, who's that guy that I brought up the other day? Who's a British anthropologist? Well, I really like who has this, I know you did.

2:04:12That's why I brought that up. He's got a YouTube channel and he's like, human beings have been in this, his argument essentially is that human beings have been in this particular form, this homo sapien form for somewhere in their neighborhood of 300 ,000 years. Why would we assume that it took us so long to get to where we are as far as society and technology and innovation? Isn't it far more likely that this was achieved multiple times, followed by great catastrophes that brought us back to square one? And there's a lot of evidence for that. There's a lot of evidence for that. In terms of like 11 ,800 years ago, the younger dry ice impact theory, but then, which is actually like physical evidence of like media of the common impacts on earth, the gigantic landscape changes, ending of the ice age, melting of the polar ice caps, massive flooding, rising sea levels, all that stuff's documented.

2:05:08But then he's talking about like, what about 100 ,000 years before that? If we're in the same form, if society did reach a very high level of sophistication, maybe in a different way, 100 ,000 years ago, how much evidence would be left? The answer is zero, but the human remains, the same. If you took 100 ,000 year old person, you could bring them to the fucking shave their face, sit them in a movie theater. They would have no idea that that was a person from 100 ,000 years ago. They look real fucking similar to us. Well, I suppose that thing. So I actually fed them well, so probably didn't get much food back then.

2:05:44Yeah, that thing of like the gratitude, like the idea that you go, how have you only got to this now? Like the idea that you go, well, actually, taking care of the, that mazlov's hierarchy of need, you know, the, you know, the industry, you need food, you need shelter, you need like, we haven't even, I mean, we haven't even covered that for most of humanity. But certainly in the, in the place that we live, that sort of take it, we factor all that in. That's all like, okay, you've got all of that sorted, and then we get to self actualize and we get to specialize. And so maybe is that thing of like, I don't know, this, the breaking of the tribes and the idea of specialization.

2:06:22It's that, it's the Dunbar number is the important thing, isn't it? Like is the great apes? So Robert Dunbar's the guy that had that idea of, it often comes up when people talk about social media. How many friends can you have? Like with great apes, they get to a pod of about 60. And then they go, I mean, no, that guy, he hasn't really groomed me in a long time. So I did this documentary once for the BBC with Robert Dunbar. And it was, oh, you met actual Robert Dunbar? He was incredible. I was at the time. I guess 60s. He's not that, that old guy. But so his theory was kind of, well, actually what happened that allowed human beings to specialize was remote grooming.

2:07:06So the idea that we could be in a large group and our language allowed us to have a larger group, like 150 friends in the group, because we didn't have to pick things out of each other's hair, or literally group each other. Hey, Bob, how's it? Look at the lawn looking good. Yeah. But that was the great, that was the great innovation because it allowed us to go, okay, look, I'm going to go and build this thing. You go and do that thing. We'll come together and obviously, you know, language predates speech by a million years, millions of years. Laughter predates speech by about a million years, they think.

2:07:47Interesting. Because the other one's laugh, champs laugh. You know, I've got to, I've got a weird laugh, right? I laugh on an in. Yeah, if something really strikes me as funny, it's like, it's such a, if people often ask, is it real? It's the most like crazy laugh. Odd, I laugh on an in -breath, not an out -breath. Like Tucker Carlson, he's got that kind of laugh. Well, okay. Well, I don't know, I don't know where I stand on that. Now I'm in trouble. I'm going to get me canceled. That's an out. That's an out. It's just a hybrid pitch. But that thing of like laughter being a remote tickle is kind of, yeah, it's an interesting idea.

2:08:28I mean, obviously, it's interesting. It's contagious genuinely. Yeah. Like if you're laughing, I'm like, I'll start laughing. What the fuck are you laughing at, Jimmy? You'll start laughing. If you're laughing hysterically. Have you seen those German guys that do the laughter therapy? No. They do a laughter therapy in Germany, and they just, it's literally a guy going, we're all going to laugh now. And they just force themselves to like, there's nothing funny going on. They just force themselves to like, it is. It sounds like hell, but it's very good for people because once they get going, they need to figure out, stand up in Germany.

2:08:58Have they ever figured it out? Who's the best? In Germany? I don't, I play a lot of Germany. Yeah, but you're an English guy going to Germany. That's different. I could play in Germany too. Yeah. But my point is, who's the best guy to come out of Germany? There was a guy who's like playing like a stadium that, oh god, I forget his name, but he came to the Edinburgh festival. We had a guy that was the number one comic in Germany who came to the comedy store back in like the early 2000s. Super nice guy, barely spoke English and did like real physical comedy. Like his whole thing was physical and he just couldn't figure out how to make it work in America.

2:09:32Right. It was interesting. Talked to him. That was a way for you in Germany, rather. And he's like, oh, in Germany, I'm the number one comedian and I do really well. And it's like, really? So what do you do? And it's like, I do this kind of like they enjoy that kind of like slapsticky fall down sort of stuff. He did a lot of physical stuff. It was funny, but it was like the audience at the comedy store had been used to all these like bang, bang, bang, like set up punchline, set up punchline, Joey Diaz. And now here's some guy from Germany. Yeah. And he was just, it didn't work for him. Well, there's a great old line of like, where would we be without a sense of humor?

2:10:07Germany. Yeah, but they make great cars. And they find, well, that thing of like, there's there's scenes coming up everywhere around the world now. I mean, I got I think 47 countries on this tour and you go and everywhere I go, there's always a couple of local comics, but come to the gig and they're doing stand -up in English. And there's a little scene and it's it's it's it's a it's very contagious. I think I think it's kind of the YouTube and the Netflix effect of like, it's just out there now. And you were more aware globally of who's doing one question. Yeah. And then there's Kiltoni, which is worldwide.

2:10:43It's the number two podcast on YouTube worldwide. What's number one? Yeah, me. For somebody's flickable reason, I don't understand it myself. But the thing about comedy is that, you know, like, maybe you don't want the people making your cars to be funny. You want them to be these like lockdown engineers like the Germans, like I kind of like that. These stoic engineers, those like, I am not driving an Italian car across the country. It's not going to make it. It's not going to make it. I'm going to get somewhere outside of Oklahoma and some fucking weird lights are going to go off in the dash.

2:11:18I'm like, what is happening here? Ding ding ding ding. The brakes are going to fit. Something's going to go. Something's going to go. Some electronic shit's going to go sideways because Pascal wasn't paying attention. He was eating his pasta and taking a nap. They take naps. What are you? What are you driving now? I drive all kinds of things. Yeah. I drove a Tesla here. But I have a lot of cars. I like cars. Yeah. I'm fascinated by engineering. You got to get you got to get devices. I like Jeremy Clarkson is a friend of mine. You got to get him. I love Jeremy. I love to have him on. I'm a huge fan.

2:11:52Yeah, he's a he's got come on here because he's like, I don't know. I think you'd have a lot in common. He's like super. I love him and I love James May. I love those guys. Dave are the originals. Yeah. And I'm a huge fan of Chris Harris too. And he took over the new top gear. Yeah. Well, they're just passionate about it. Yeah. I think there was something of like, I'd love someone to do. I'm sure I'm sure it exists somewhere and I just haven't been to it. But like a museum of the motorcar. Oh, there isn't Los Angeles. Oh, yeah. I know. I saw where they were building that and it wasn't finished yet.

2:12:19Last time. No, no, no. LA has had a museum forever. Isn't there a new one in perhaps maybe there's a new one? Yeah. Maybe they're making the new one. Maybe it's the same company. But the LA auto museum has been around forever. Because it feels to me like vintage cars are the way to go. But there's so many regulations now. There's so much you have to do in your country. To make a country. Yeah. In your goofy country, they lock you down. Well, I think that's all going to change though. Isn't it? I think it's like we could never get American cars in the UK. Yeah. You could never buy a Cadillac in the UK.

2:12:49You could never. And maybe that's going to change now. I hope so. I'd love to be able to buy American muscle cars really popular over there. Because those are just they're fun. They're just fun to drive. There's something about American muscle cars like even the modern ones like if you buy a modern Ford Mustang, they are fun to drive man. There's the rumble of the engine shifting the gears, the manual transmission. I think like the Mustang GT is like the greatest bargain as far as like fun for dollar in the automobile world today. Because I think you get a Mustang GT for like under $50 ,000 US like loaded.

2:13:27It is incredible. It is an interesting thing of like cars. There's a certain point now where what's the last car you could drive as opposed to it driving you. Right. So there's no way to say. There's a push from a Taga from 89. So it had the G50, but it was air cooled. But it was like the it's kind of the last one I think before the technology kind of took over and they were just. Well, not necessarily. You know, the 964 is still very analog and so are the 993s and especially in comparison to the 996s and the 997s that came after it. But the point of those cars is engagement versus proficiency.

2:14:18So the car that I drove today is a Tesla Model S plaid. It is a preposterously fast car. It has incredible technology. It drives itself. If I choose to and I leave here tonight, I can press a button and it'll drive me to my house. It'll stop at every red light. It'll hit blinkers. It'll change lanes if there's an obstruction. Hands off. Nothing hands off. I don't have to do it. You're supposed to keep your hands like on the wheel. Sort of. You don't have to you barely have to be paying attention, but it'll do all the work for you. But a 1989 Porsche like yours, that one, that is a visceral experience.

2:14:53It's you're feeling it. It's like, whoa, it's fun. You're on a ride. You're not even going fast, but you're feeling everything. It's a sensory overload. It's very exciting. It's exciting, not going quick. There's nothing like those old cars, especially old Porsches, because they handle really well. Even though they're an old car, they still have like the really good dynamics and turns like rolled, rolled. What it is that we're enjoying that? Because I think it's like, it's type one and type two thinking. So it's like, driving a car, once you get in your license to drive stick shift, you really have to concentrate.

2:15:36Sure. Then it goes over into this other place where you just go, it's just happening. I don't have to think about this. You're just commuting. But you're like engaged. You're kind of in a flow state when you drive from one of those cars and just driving it. You haven't got the radio on. I used to love driving home from shows and you'd think of something and you'd be driving and you wouldn't be at days before iPhones. So you just have to remember that thought and let it linger and kind of thinking of jokes and wordplay. But you'd be kind of engaged in this other activity. You're not a zen state because you're connected to the vehicle.

2:16:11But you're not listening to music. You're not listening to a podcast. You're just out there driving this thing that you have to really be in tune with. And then your mind, your subconscious is free to roam. It's interesting those things of activities that engender different kind of states. Like, okay, you play a lot of pool. Now, I don't play much pool. But I do play pool with my friends if they're having a tough time. If you have to have a tough conversation with a friend if they're down, they're depressed, whatever, this looking at each other in the eyes doesn't work so well. All right, you got to do an activity.

2:16:48Because there's a lot of thinking time. You know, if it's an emotional conversation or something big going on, again, pool's kind of fantastic for that because it just slows everything down. You've got a reason to be there for longer. It's kind of it's playful. And it's kind of a low level competition going on, but the stakes aren't high. And you kind of have a great, it's like when you're in the car with a buddy, you have a great conversation side by side. I'm so glad you brought that up because I had a friend who was considering suicide and I did not know until we started playing pool together.

2:17:23I played pool with him a bunch times, but we were playing pool together one day and he just seemed weird. He just seemed off. But it was through the playing that we could talk like, you know, we start talking. What's going on? I'm not doing good at all. I'm not doing good at all. I'm like, what's going on? And then, you know, we had this conversation and he didn't have a lot of money. So he didn't have access to good psychiatric care. So I contacted my business manager and I said, who's the best guy that we can connect my friend to? And he got on some stuff. I forget which SSR I was, but it ultimately really helped him.

2:17:59And then he turned everything around and then his life turned around and he slowly weaned himself off and then he's fine. But it was like this moment of playing pool. So this is why like when people completely dismiss psychiatric medication to him like, I can see how they were prescribed. I can see how some people become dependent when really they should try exercise and healthy diet. However, when you're dealing with someone who's on the ledge, like anything you can get that keeps that person from ending their life and making a terrible decision. And if they have a bad serotonin balance and dopamine balance in their head and there's something that we can give them that can help balance them out.

2:18:38And then they slowly get, get, get towards a healthier. It's like someone saying, you know, no, no, we should all learn to swim. No, sometimes you need a life raft. Yeah, sometimes you need life raft for a couple of little babies. They have just loads just for a couple of weeks. But that thing of like, and we should chat about that because it's like it suicide from it is like it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Invariably it's that thing of like people think they want to disappear, but really they want to be found. And it's, I find it heartbreaking because I think more so than other fun stuff you go and see with comedy.

2:19:14I know it's a lot of people that are depressed or have suicide ideation. A self -medicating with stand -up comedy. So they watch a lot of comedy or they come to a lot of comedy shows because it's kind of the opposite of what they're feeling. And it's that thing of the you kind of I always do a bit about it at the end of the show. I mean, I tell a lot of brutal jokes and then I talk about it because you go there's going to be someone in the crowd. I had this like heartbreaking thing where I've had a couple of times now where people come up and go, oh, I was going to have this amazing woman talk to me about she had like, she was celebrating like 14 years of extra life.

2:19:51But she was like 17 or something at home and she was thinking about ending it. She was waiting until everyone had gone to sleep before she hung herself. Oh God. And she turned on a computer on YouTube and she's sure clips of some panel show bullshit that I was doing. And she laughed. Oh wow. And then she watched another clip. And then she watched another and then she got super into comedy and whatever. She didn't do it that night. And then she watched more of it the next day and it somehow that got her over or she attributed that to getting her over a hump. Well, sometimes you just have to have access to other thoughts.

2:20:28And when someone's a good comic like yourself, what happens is you allow that person to kind of think for you when you're enjoying their performance. And sometimes it's just that. That's enough. Sometimes it's great philosophy or a great book or someone gives a great like inspirational speech where it just makes you like really think like, wow, like what is it about the way this person is talking right now that it's changing my state. It's changing my state of mind because I'm thinking the way they're thinking. I'm allowing them because they're so eloquent. Taken the controls. Yeah. And because what they're saying is so precise and they have so much passion in what they're saying.

2:21:06There's so much enthusiasm that it's contagious. And now also I feel better. It's that it's it's perspective. You know, if you have had Peter McGraw on here. No. Peter McGraw is that guy that came up with the benign violation theory of comedy. What is that? So benign violation theory is the idea. Have I had Peter McGraw? This is a real problem when you've had Peter McGraw and 500 podcasts. I don't want to say I've never had a couple of blows to the head. A bunch. Just enough. The sweet spot. Peter McGraw, the benign violation theory. Did I have one? Yeah. Where was this? Is he a professor of marketing and psychology?

2:21:44Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was this? He's a brilliant man. Oh, episode 578. Oh, wow. Pull him up on the screen so I can see what he looks like. Okay. So boy, that shows you how toasty my brain is. That's the 561 messages that I have an answer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That all from him. Oh, there he is. Yeah. I would have told you that's fake picture. Yeah. Okay. I told you that's a thing that's happened. It'll happen a hundred times more, dude. We've had too many episodes. But so his theory, which I'm sure he has spoken about on this very show, is the idea that you go. Okay. So so violation. Sorry, Peter.

2:22:17Violations are like how things are meant to be, right? If it deviates from that, it's a violation in life. So death, disease, famine, all of the worst stuff in the world is like it's a violation. And he's saying, okay, if you imagine a venn diagram, that's one circle. And then overlapping that is is kind of humor. And you go, if you if you joke about something, you're kind of your re you're recoding it in your mind. Just say, no, no, this is this is okay. We're putting a bit of distance between this. So just by joking about something, you make these violations in life, these terrible things, whether it's, you know, death, disease, suicide, whatever the terrible thing is, you're making it okay through laughter.

2:23:01You're kind of you're you're you're filtering life's hardships through the charcoal of comedy and kind of making it palatable. So it's like, you know, I often say this, I feel sorry for the people that are easily offended. Yeah. Well, or like if any, because laughing at difficult things is it pays out on the worst days. So like when you're having your very worst day, you go, yeah, but at least we can laugh like those things of like if you've had friends die or, you know, they're in palliative care, and you can sort of get a laugh out of them. And it's just eases everything. If you find people that are like that, that's a learned response.

2:23:41And if you grow up in a family that's easily offended and offended by everything, like a humorous family, that's a real problem. That's a real fucking problem. If they don't know how to joke around about stuff, that becomes a real issue. They they take themselves too seriously, or they take the world too seriously, and like you're always looking to be outraged. And then there's also a lot of social credit to being outraged. Like people have like, he's outraged. You have to like let him like now you've kind of commanded the stage, I am so sick of this shit. Like always. Let him have his face. Give him his time.

2:24:14You know, it's like you're demanding undue attention for something that a rational person who has like more important things to think about would laugh off, you know. I think being able to laugh at office, it's quite super power. Well, it's quite stoic, isn't it? Because you can't really choose what happens to you just how you react to it. We don't have any control, but we have a lot of influence. And the idea that disposition is more important than position is one of my kind of core beliefs. Like I know some pretty fucking miserable billionaires. And I know some people that are just, you know, so what's happiness?

2:24:46It's like it's your current situation minus expectations. Stephen Fry had a great piece on being offended. Do you ever see Stephen Fry on being offended? No, go on. I don't want to paraphrase it because it was brilliant. But it's like, but that's not even an argument. Like you're offended. Like what does that even mean? So you're offended. Like, but why? Like what about it? And what about why you so easily triggered? Like what, what fragile creature you are going through this life being offended and everything? It is now very common to hear people say I'm rather offended by that as if it gives them certain rights.

2:25:25It's actually nothing more than a wine. I find that offensive. It has no meaning. It has no purpose. It has no reason to be respected as a phrase. I am offended by that while so fucking what? Yeah. He's wonderful. Wonderful. There's some great, great, great lines like that. But that's another one. It's like you can't command attention just because you're offended. I always think you should as a person who's developed your mind and gotten through a lot of experiences in life. If you are 50 fucking years old and the most mildest thing happens in your responses, I'm offended. You didn't figure it out.

2:26:06You got to this point in your life where you have a very fragile foundation and you're looking to be offended, which means you're probably not good at what you do. Whatever the fuck it is that you were supposed to be good at, you probably fucked that up. And now you're just looking for weird reasons to emote weird reasons to get upset about things. Instead of to rationally try to see things. I mean, that's in people's perspectives. I get annoyed with it because people buy a ticket to see me live. If I buy a ticket to a horror movie and then complaining, I'm scared. Especially you. Yeah. I mean, it's absolutely brutal.

2:26:44But then it's all in service of fun. This is a society that rewards outrage and that coddles people for the most preposterous beliefs. This is a weird society. It's a weird society of social media and the amount of attention you can generate. And so that spills out into the real world. Chris Rock talked about it brilliantly after the incident of the Oscars. He said this thing about like there's three ways to get attention. You could be brilliant at something that takes a lot of work or whatever. You could be infamous or you could be a victim. And it's the easiest option. Right. It's like, oh, there's something in it.

2:27:27It's an option. Yeah. I'm sure you've seen these people that have like they list off. We're talking about this one person that was like the final boss of woke culture. They listed off all the things that are wrong with them. I'm disabled. I'm trans. I'm non -binary. I'm ethnically challenged. Like whatever the fuck it is. They just like rattled off like 30 of them. Like, oh my God, this person has everything wrong with them. Meanwhile, they're fine. You're fine. You're just person over here talking. Like you don't get special attention because of all these things you just listed. This is stupid.

2:28:02But in this weird world that we live in, you'll get celebrated. You know, it's the identity politics world. Yeah. You have. Well, I suppose that thing of like if you had to define entitlement, right? It's a word that gets used a lot, right? In title. Okay. So for me, it's like where you are now and where you want to be. If you want to do something about it, that's ambition. If you think that someone else is problem, that's entitlement. And it comes back to that agency empathy thing. Like I'm very empathetic to, oh, wow, that's a, wow, your cards are not great. The cards that you've been dealt are not great, but they're your cards.

2:28:44And I want you to be empowered to do as much as you fucking can with those cards. Yeah. That's a good luck. A weird political ploy too to look to the wealthy people and say they're the problem. They're your problem. That's the thing that people will do to the proletariat, right? They will tell them the reason why you're in this situation today is because of these greedy people on paying their share. These wealthy, if they paid their share, like, is it, where's it going to go though? Is it going to go to this corrupt government that's the one who's feeding this nonsense in the first place? What are you going to do?

2:29:16You're going to enrich them. They're just going to get bigger and stronger and have even more power. And then you're even more fucked. You're even more fucked because you don't have any resources. Like it's not going to help you if they tax rich people and then the poor people going to get that money. No. Are there, are there services going to improve? No. No. You're just going to get more government. It seems like a good idea. Like maybe the solution is we've got to tax the rich people. But that's, no, you've got to figure out what to do with the money you're already get from everybody. And you're not doing a good job with it.

2:29:49Like that's the problem. The problem isn't like the rich people are paying their share. Like I always hear that about Elon. Like he doesn't even pay taxes. Elon paid more taxes in 2024 than any living human being that has ever existed. He paid something like $10 billion in taxes. Yeah. I felt like I did in 2012. I felt like I did. You know, I got, no, no, I got, I got, I had a big tax candle. I'd like, I had a big, I tell you when you know you've got tax problems, right? What happened? If the Prime Minister of the country that you live in breaks off from the G20 summit to come out and do a press conference, he talks about nothing other than your personal tax affairs.

2:30:34That's a red flag. What happened, Jimmy? I don't know. I was in like some, some accountant said to me, do you want to, oh, there's like a tax scheme. You want to be in a tax scheme? And I went, yeah, okay. Like stupid. Like just when you know it was, no, it was legit. Oh, no, it was legit. It was all legal. It was tax avoidance, not tax evasion. There's a difference. And the difference is about 18 months in prison. So thankfully I came down on the right fucking side of that. But did you wind up owing? Oh, it was, it was, it was enough. It was enough to go, oh, put the tour in. Great. We're going on the road.

2:31:06We are, yeah, we're in trouble. So you tried to avoid paying a percentage that was due? Yeah. Yeah. Pretty dumb. They, they put people in jail in America. They make a, yeah, they make a big thing out of it. They put Wesley Snipes. The woman from the Fuji's Lauren Hill, they put her in jail. They put people in jail. Even if you could pay them, they're like, nope, not good enough. You're going to jail. But just the only time when you owe money and you pay the money back, you still go to jail. They want to make a example out of you. Pay your fucking taxes. And I'm Boston. I came up in Boston. And in Boston, in the 1980s, in particular, it was a very wild westie sort of a comedy scene.

2:31:54And they would pay you in cash or cocaine. It was up to you. Casual cocaine. Yes. There was at least one club that would pay you in cash or cocaine. Yeah. And I was always like, I'll take cash. I never did coke luckily. But a lot of guys took the cocaine. And a lot of guys also took the cash, but never paid taxes, like for a long time. Well, I'd love if they took the cocaine and paid the tax on that. Just went to the IRS and went, look, I brought you this baggy of coke. I got a kilo of my trunk. It's about 30 % of the coke I took. This is for you, the IRS. They all got banged up by the IRS and they all wound up owing a fucking tremendous amount of money that they couldn't pay.

2:32:37So they all, like all their salaries every time they did a weekend at a club, everything like half of it would go to the government. They'd take it straight out of your bank account. They would just take money from you. They're not allowing you to pay them anymore. They just take it. I've gained the system. I do two shows a night now. So one for me, one for them. Oh, that's a good move. Great. Yeah. That makes sense. I don't even see that money. I can't trust myself. It is funny, though, that they get half. What are you getting out of it at a certain level? You get to the Elon Musk level? Well, I guess you could say there's entitlements like just things that helped electric cars get more popular and get funding.

2:33:17That makes sense. But at a certain, if you're a performer, say, like you're a singer and half of all your money goes to the government, you're like, hey, what did you guys do? If you're Taylor Swift, Taylor Swift, what did she make? A billion dollars a year or something crazy like that? I mean, she's doing fucking stadiums. They sell out instantaneously. She's printing money. But the government takes a sizable piece. They don't write a fucking song. Like it's not important. Well, imagine if they are. Look, Taylor, you've paid a lot of tax last year. So we're going to read some songs. We've written you that we've got an idea.

2:33:56We think it's pretty good. We've clubbed together. Yeah. We've got a base guitar. We've got a riff. Here you go. You're seeing it too much about boyfriends. I want you to sing about the iOS. We want to, you just sing about us. Yeah. Um, I don't know. There's places you go around the world though, where the tax rate is higher, but this, but you kind of, you look at no one's annoyed because they just, it just delivers. I do a lot of things in like Norway, Finland, Denmark, where you kind of go, yeah, great. This all works. But much different society, much different society. And it's also smaller population.

2:34:28I think the real problem is when you scale that to like hundreds of millions of people, things get really weird. Yeah. It's very difficult to, like, run socialized medicine, socialized education, like everything like that. When you get to just enormous quantities of human beings. Well, maybe that's the thing with America, though, where you go it, it is a, um, it's, it's a country. And then it's lots of states. Mm -hmm. And maybe the state level makes more sense. Like the nation state level makes more sense than kind of a global level. I think it does. I think it does with education. And I think that's one of the reasons why this administration wants to get rid of where they got rid of the Department of Education.

2:35:03They're allowing the states to manage their own education system on their own and do it in a way that they, and also be competitive. Like if you are, you know, Arizona, you want to show that you have a better education system than Nevada. And Nevada wants to show they're better than Utah. And like, there's a reason why, you know, you want people that actually know how to make things better and raise kids grade scores. Well, they can also attract people with their education system because they go 100 percent. You attract people moving into your state, moving into your city. I'm just trying to think of the city that I play.

2:35:38I think it's, it might, I don't think it's Estonia. It's some, I mean, you might have to Google this, but it's like, they've got a medical school and it's free. You go to medical school. It's in Eastern Europe. They teach it in English. And the reason they do it is because they go, well, you know, 400 kids a year are going to come here and study medicine. Some of them are going to fall in love with a local girl and stay. We've got more doctors. That's nothing but good news. And it's great. You know, we just run this system. It doesn't cost us that much to run a university. That would make so much sense.

2:36:05And they live that. And obviously, you've got to live that a lot of what it takes to be a student is the upkeep on, you know, your living and expenses. You get a part -time job, whatever you're adding to the local community as well as study. To be really cynical, I think there's a certain percentage of our government that wants to keep people in turmoil and in strife because they're easier to manage. And I think the more people become successful and the more people become, you know, completely free to do what they choose. And they no longer have financial burdens, so they're not afraid to speak their mind.

2:36:41And they can kind of like explore different things. And I think if that's like a conspiracy or is that emergent, the system that we have, there's a bug in it where that's how it looks. It looks like they're doing that. And you go, well, that's just the systems doing that somehow. So we need to adjust the system a little bit. It's openly discussed that one of the reasons why they let people across the border is that we need cheap labor. This was discussed by top Democrat politicians. No, that's the Republicans in the 80s. They just were nasty. They got signed. Absolutely. That was a Republican policy to let people across the border.

2:37:17And destroyed, destroyed the working man, destroyed the working man. You go, yeah, cheaper product, yeah, but what what costs? Destroyed manufacturing in the United States, destroyed Flint, Michigan, destroyed. Roger and me is a great documentary about that. But that is 100 % true. That is exactly what happened. And that that is a real problem.

2:37:43And the expense of millions of people's fucking future. Like if you destroyed Detroit, which they did, Detroit at one point in time was one of the wealthiest cities in the world. Detroit during the boom of the automotive industry in the United States was a huge place. I mean, it was a place where people would go. It had a nightlife. It was exciting. There was a lot of money. They had auto unions. People were making great, a great living culture that came out of them. You look at Motown. How much of that culture was downstream of people having disposable income. 100%. The invention of the teenager as a consumer with disposable income and time that they could spend.

2:38:29And the unions don't get the credit they deserve. But without them, everybody would be a slave. Essentially, you'd be a slave. And the company has all the power. They'd be able to dictate your hours, dictate your wages, keep you as poor as possible so that you have no power and you have no say. But then that thing of like looking at it from, you know, if you step back from that and go, okay, well that's what happened to them. But then globally now, there's a lot of stuff we buy that's, you know, produced in places where people don't get paid enough. They get paid almost nothing. I don't have any reason why the companies are profitable.

2:39:04And then we just gobbled the products up over here. We wait in line for the newest phone. Meanwhile, the phone, the literal minerals used to make the batteries are pulled out of the ground by slaves. Yeah. It's really dark. But no one's really talking about what's happening in the DLC at the moment. Right. Fucking horrific. We had some dark car on who was an investigative journalist wrote a book about it who actually went there and got like wrist is life to get footage of some of these artisanal cobalt mines and it's horrific stuff, man. Women with babies on their backs that are pulling this cobalt out of the ground.

2:39:41Everyone's getting sick because you're inhaling this dust of this. And cobalt is essential for all these batteries. I can't. I don't know what to be done. I mean, what's to be done? Is it a constitution? Is it a, is it a minerals deal? But I don't even know who the government is there. I know Rwanda invited recently in the North, but it's. It's a good question. It's like very hard to deal with these problems globally. But locally, the solution would be if you are an American company, you cannot go places and pay someone a wage that would not be acceptable in America. Also, the other thing is healthcare.

2:40:18Ross Perot covered this when he was running for president, when he was an independent and kind of fucked up all the elections over here because he said, you know, one of the things that people don't think about is healthcare. If you are an employer in America, you have to provide all your people with healthcare. And if you have a factory of 30 ,000 people, that's a significant amount of money that you have to spend on healthcare for all these people. The build a hospital or Mexico, dollar a day, no healthcare. They're like, fucking send it over there or China or send it over there. India send it over there.

2:40:47Well, is this going to be okay? Let's, I'm very positive. I'm very optimistic about life. Is this going to be the incredible flourishing for America the next 20 years because the industrial base is going to come back? It would be wonderful if that was the case. It would be wonderful if that was the case. I think also we're dealing with a real issue of automation taking away most jobs. I think that is, that's unmanageable. And that's going to be a real problem. And a lot of people think universal basic income is a solution to that problem. But then that makes you completely dependent upon the state.

2:41:21You know, people need to find meaning in what they do. And some people would have been just a check or not going to find that meaning. America's a, so I was in Yellow Springs with Dave Shippell. And Shippell was telling me about the history of Yellow Springs. And he said, oh, it's interesting because this town is a microcosm for America. It's got the same makeup as America, roughly speaking. So they used it to test a lot of stuff. Like he said, when I what? The Macrib. They tested the Macrib there. So when he was a kid, they had the Macrib. But he thought it was everywhere, but it was just there where they they tested it and went, okay, that works.

2:41:59Or this new flavor soda, this new thing. Like the universal basic income. Okay, we could have opinions about whether it works, whether it doesn't work. I'm suspicious because I worry about purpose. I sort of think the opposite of addiction isn't sobriety. It's purpose. People with purpose tend to do great. Okay, so whatever gives you that purpose and might be a family, doesn't need to be a family, but something that gives you purpose and drive and you're aiming up towards something. Yes. But America's a big country. There's a lot of little towns, let Yellow Springs. There's a lot of places where we could test universal basic income.

2:42:36I think they have done that. Did it work? Do we know? I think didn't they do that with Stockton? It wasn't Stockton, California where they tested universal basic income. And I think they had positive results. I think you give people like $500 a month and they found that, you know, some people spent it on stupid shit. But for the most part, people improve their their living conditions, improve their life, improve the amount of nutrition they get. California program giving $500 no strings attached stipends pays off study fines. Yeah. So I generally think a level of assistance would help. I think complete dependence is the real issue.

2:43:14And so the real problem with automation is that automation is going to eliminate jobs. And there will be no jobs to get. There's so many things that people do, including most manufacturing jobs. So many things that people do where we make errors, we fuck things up. But that's the thing of like companies agree. We can agree on that. Yeah. I want to make money. And I think the companies will realize what we need. It's not just like if you look at China, I think China is in a very tough situation. Not just because half of its population is now over 53, okay? And demographics are destiny. So it's not just that they don't have enough workers, they have enough consumers.

2:43:52Not having enough consumers is a real problem. And so they have to sell stuff overseas. So you go, yeah, so they're absolutely dependent on on trade and exports. So you go, the idea, you have to have a certain amount of jobs. You have to have things for people to do. And it will change over time. Like 120 years ago, as everyone's working in agriculture, you couldn't have imagined people coming to the cities in those numbers. Right. And becoming factory workers. And then becoming all the factory workers and our white collar workers in offices. We can't. It's a new thing. We can't imagine what the next phase is.

2:44:28It's difficult to imagine what the future might look like. And there's a lot of people. There's always someone saying, oh, this is it. It's never going to. Another great example about women entering to the workforce. So the idea of women pursuing these traditional male occupations, CEOs and heads of companies, all this stuff, they don't have, they really don't have into the workforce and running companies and being a part of things like all that stuff's new, but women running it even more new. So of course, it's like, what are they doing? What do we do? Like, how do you figure this out? How do you do this and be happy?

2:45:09How do you do this? And actually, can you really have a family and your children going to, if you're working 12 hours a day, can you really raise children? Like, how much? They need a lot of time. They need a lot of, it's, it's the, okay, so that's very recent. And then you, I always think that the global thing of like, we're talking about America, we're talking about a little bit about Great Britain. But globally, you go the, you know, you go, you're worried about people not having jobs here. Right. You go, but also you can't look at India and go, oh, yeah, we've made, everyone, everyone here has got, you know, central heating and air conditioning and, uh, flushing toilets.

2:45:44Right. No, but we need to take care of the environment. So, sorry, guys, it's like, we need that for everyone. That, that for sure. There's, there's a, a basic level that we need globally for the world. Right. We should, well, that's a, the big things pollution. I mean, particularly like pollution of lakes and rivers, like, I'm sure you've seen some of these rivers in India where the entire river is filled with garbage. Yeah. And everyone just throws their garbage in the river. So they've completely ruined the river, essentially forever, unless somebody like has some radical, radical intervention that, well, the, the, the writing, I mean, nature will come back.

2:46:22You know, it's, it's that thing if you go that they'll, they'll get there. But it's the nature will come back and I think the, I think, yeah, because, you know, I mean, if the humans die off, no, no, no, not if the humans die. I mean, I think that thing of going, yeah, there's terrible pollution there and there's awful things because we've exported our sins to the third world. Yes. Because we say, well, we want to hit this net zero target. So we let them drill for oil or gas. And it's cheaper to let them figure out what the fuck they do with their garbage is supposed to like a company in America if they do that they get sued rightfully.

2:46:58So, well, a lot of things with the rare earths that we get from China. The reason we get them from China, they're not tough to make. We've got the raw materials here. But they're dirty to make. And it, it's a horrible procedure to get that thing. And we wash our hands of it and let them do it over there. That's, that's not a way to conduct, you know, yourself. It's also the, the problem in America is we don't have the infrastructure for manufacturing the way they have it in other countries. Like one of the things that Tim Cook was talking about the iPhone 17 that they, you know, they've done a lot, they've shipped a lot of their manufacturing to India.

2:47:35But that they may have seen and find this because I think we brought it up the other day but we never wound up finding it that they have to have this phone made in China because it's more sophisticated. And the Chinese manufacturing is at a much more sophisticated level. So it's not just cheap labor. It's much more efficient production in terms of the amount that like chip manufacturing in particular with Taiwan where you go. Yeah. Look, you know, Taiwan is, we're kind of worried about it. And you go, well, what's what's going to happen? And I don't have the, I don't have enough knowledge to know why superconductors can only be made there.

2:48:16But it's really, they've been doing it for so long.

2:48:23They've were there printing things on these immensely small pieces of circuitry. It's like fascinating, super technologically advanced stuff that keeps getting better and better and better. It's almost like when you, when it's described to you, it almost feels like magic. Well, it's going to appear to be magic when it gets to the quantum level. Well, that quantum computing is essentially magic. Arthur C. Clarke's famous quote, any significantly advanced science will appear as magic. Yeah. It's kind of true. Well, especially with the quantum stuff, you know, Mark and Jason had this amazing quote about equations that quantum computing can solve in minutes that would take traditional computing so much time that the universe would die of heat death before we finish it.

2:49:12Before they finish it. And these quantum computers in minutes. And they also believe, and this is where it gets really weird, they also believe that this is in some way evidence of the multiverse, that there's not enough computing power for this thing to achieve these results so quickly that it must be drawing upon other computing power of parallel realities. See, for me, that gets to the Kuhn -Popper debate on science, right? So it's that. So Kuhn and Popper are these two great theorists of science. And Popper believed that science incrementally improves over time. And then Kuhn came along and he said, no, no, what happens is there's the science, there's a scientific community and they have a theory.

2:50:02And then what happens is everything that disagrees with that theory is thrown out as nonsense. And then there's a revolution. There's like these incredible like shifts that happen. So it doesn't, it's not like a steady line up. It's like a long and then up and then a lot, you know, so you get these kind of, here it is. 20th anniversary iPhone likely to be in China due to extraordinary complex design. Oh, it's not the iPhone 17. It's the next one. It might be the foldable one they're talking about. But this article also goes into say that Apple's never launched a new product outside of China. They've introduced the first cycle of a new thing from China.

2:50:40And maybe they take the production elsewhere after that. Interesting. Yeah, because they're, okay, features a book like design that folds horizontal. By the way, can I just say, injuries have had that forever. I had a Z Fold from Samsung like three years ago. Yeah. You know, they've been doing foldable phones and making them better and better and Xiaomi has some incredible Huawei has a three -way phone. It opens up. What do you want? Goddamn iPad. It's like Tinder, but it get you two ladies. Flap, flap, two flops. Flap, flap. It's got two hinges. So it opens up and it doesn't have a seam. When it opens up, it's completely flat and it's thin as fuck and it's, you can't buy them over here because Huawei, they've been naughty.

2:51:23Yeah, they've been naughty. I don't know if you know. I had to do some naughty things with their electronics, put some back doors in there, siphoned up some information. Sure. But their innovation is so far ahead. This is, which is one of the reasons I assume why Apple has to make these in China. But the funny thing is that Apple's making something that Android has had for fucking years. Yeah. Well, okay, back to see if you find that Huawei phone. That three -way, that three -way phone. Look at this. Look at that motherfucker. Look at that. So it looks like a regular phone. It's regular phone size in your hand when it's like that.

2:52:00And it's not that thick, man. And it opens up to a tablet. So eventually, it's just going to engulf your head. It's going to be a trapezoid that you put over the top of your fucking head. But these things are unavailable, a lot of them unavailable in America. And this is the Huawei Mate, which is unavailable. Look at how the fucking lens goes around the edges. Yeah. I mean, incredible stuff. Yeah. That's magic from the future. It's also like probably pretty unnecessary unless you do work on it, you know. Well, you watch a movie or whatever. I mean, I guess I don't know what you're doing with you.

2:52:40Your battery life is going to go quick. Like the Z Fold was like pretty quick. It burns quick. Right. Because there's an immense screen that has to light up. Okay. The multiverse. Let's get back to the multiverse. Okay. So is the multiverse? The so are we about to have a breakthrough in science where they go, okay, so physics says there must be multiple universes. Now just just in my gut, I think that feels like an explanation that doesn't work. Like you're having to force that explanation on physics. There must be it's that thing that Eric Weinstein's always talking about about how physics hasn't really done anything.

2:53:17String theory has singularly failed to deliver. It hasn't shipped any product. Like everything that we're looking at, all those foldable phones, it's all out of physics. Physics is the science. Everything else is stamp collecting. Physics is everything. It's given us all of this. Yeah. And yet it hasn't done much for 50 years. What are they like, I don't want to sound conspiratorial? Well, the conspiracy is that it has. It's just been all top secret stuff on propulsion systems. It's been some anti -gravity. Thompson Brown, is that what it was? Jesse Michaels actually did a Thompson Brown. Thompson Brown.

2:53:54He was theorizing about the stuff of the 1950s. And there's there's real evidence that they even put false information out there because they felt like people were trying to steal the information. So they fucked with it and made it so that it wouldn't work if someone was trying to steal the idea. So they were putting out bad versions of their science because it was that groundbreaking. So through immense amounts of power, they had theorized this in the 1950s using nuclear energy to develop some sort of a gravity portal, some sort of a gravity device that would propel things instead of a traditional propulsion system, propel things by manipulating space and time itself.

2:54:42And they think this is, there's, there's, Weinstein has a crazy theory about it where you get, he gets deep into the weeds about this. No, it's almost like folding time. It's like, but he gets deep in the weeds about the actual place that's doing it. Yeah. So there's a, there's a university in New York State that is a very overquired qualified physics department that's connected to a hedge fund that does burny made -off numbers, like magic numbers. And he thinks this is also connected to some sort of possibly, some sort of breakthrough science where everybody is like completely locked down, totally top secret, no leaks, no disclosure, constantly working on this thing.

2:55:26In the interest of national security, everything's kept at complete secrecy. Yeah. Why would probably this is some of the things that we see in the sky? I have a feeling that there is, I'm open to the idea of us being visited for sure. I am also very convinced that some of these are either China's, Russia's, or ours. What happened with New Jersey earlier? It's a good question. Like, it feels like these, the news cycle, it's actually back to Eric Weinstein. It's that thing of like anti -interesting. That's such an interesting story that was in the new cycle for like 24 hours and they went, oh, they killed it.

2:56:03Nothing, I guess. Nothing to see here. They talked about it all the time and then they killed it. I think they were probably searching for something. The primary theory that I've heard from the tinfoil haphragade is that there was a warhead that was unaccounted for. There was a nuclear warhead, you know, they tracked it. Have you seen the numbers on that? Oh, yeah. It's the broken arrows, they call them. And apparently there's like 18 broken arrows and you go, what's a broken arrow? Well, it's a thermonuclear missile and we don't know where it is. Yeah. We've misplaced that. That's not great news.

2:56:34So the fear was that there was somehow or another through some port of entry or something. They had made it into the United States. And so these drones were using some sort of gamma -ray detection devices, some top secret stuff where they were flying over these areas in a consistent grid and trying to get a reading. See if they could find that thing because if that thing exists, you'd be able to get a reading and figure out, okay, there's something down there that's emitting a very unusual signal we might have found it. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's the argument for life visiting us is the idea we split the atom and somehow that's like a fire alarm in the universe.

2:57:17That's why the club, the mothership, the rooms are named Fat Man and Little Boy. Yeah. That's why. Oh, because after the bombs is when the UFO phenomenon really hyped up, really increased radically. The Kenneth Arnold siding, the famous where the term flying saucer was coined. That was in the 1950s. I want to say that's like 52. And then it feels like that. It feels like, I don't know, 10 years ago talking about being visited by aliens was like, absolutely 10 foil. Yeah. And now politicians are asking questions and we kind of want to know more. And yet it feels like it's kind of a new story that wouldn't be surprising now.

2:57:59Right. Well, I think that's the goal. The goal is to normalize it. And if you were a government, you know, we had how put off on who's a physicist who during the Bush administration was contracted along with several other scientists to devise a list. This was the mandate. They have crashed UFOs and recovered biological entities that are not of this world. What would be the pros? And they didn't tell them if this is true or not. They said, what would be the pros of disclosure? What would be the cons? And I want you to attach a numerical value to each one. So disruption of government, religion, politics, all these different things like what would happen to the nuclear family?

2:58:51Like, what happens if we know we're not alone? What happens if we are visited on a consistent basis? What happens? And when they did it at the end, all of the scientists had achieved similar conclusions that the cons outweighed the pros in terms of numbers. And so because of that, they decided not to disclose. So this was like during the 1980s, I guess, 90s, when was Bush too? No. Okay. 2000. So 2000. So it was around then. Yeah. Yeah. What do they know? What do they tell you the first day? I don't think they tell you the first day. I think the president is a temp. The president's like a substitute teacher.

2:59:36I don't think I don't think you get to know much. I don't think Trump knows. Well, I probably told him some things. I worry that the government is like there's a theory that there hasn't really been an American government since 1945. No. Because everything got siloed. Like in wartime, everyone's talking to everyone and making everything happen. And it's like, okay, we're a war. And then everything gets siloed. And okay, that's a secret thing. That's a secret thing. That's a secret thing. And then the guy that's holding the secret keys, retires, and that whole department's just funded forever. But then you have people that are in great positions of power that get off on keeping these secrets and keeping this information and having the knowledge and keeping it only to themselves, especially if they're manipulating things.

3:00:26This is like a big problem with the CIA. And you know, this led to when they had the disclosures and the church commission. And then when people found out what the CIA was up to, all the weird shit they did with MK Ultra. Oh my god, that book.

3:00:44I've recommended it off. I listened to the episode. I went back and listened to your episode with the guy. And I went, okay, this is interesting. What's he called again? Tom O 'Neill. Tom O 'Neill. He's got a new podcast, by the way. He's got a new podcast where he's kind of going like an in -depth interview. It's with Rick Rubens. You know, Rick Rubens got podcasted. He's podcasted. His podcast company is done one with him. I didn't even know Rick Ruben had a podcast company. That's funny. Well, he texts him all the time. I didn't even know he had a podcast. He's got a great podcast. He's the best.

3:01:09Oh, he's such a... He'll entertain any ideas. He'll... He's fucking... He's wonderful. He gets down the rabbit hole. But he... So he's... So I listened to the thing. And then I went away and I read the book. And the book is like, you kind of read it and go, this can't be... That's an extraordinary chapter. This can't get any weirder. And then you go... So Charles Manson is connected to the Kennedy assassination. And... Sorry, he's also connected to the MK Ultra experiments, which are real, which sound so much fucking weird than any other conspiracy theory you've ever heard. And they're real. Yeah.

3:01:45Yeah. And you can... I mean, it's like the book is just... Yeah. It's wonderful. Yeah. It's a great book. And it's all history. It's all the United States history. And it's what happens when people have unchecked power. They do crazy things. And what our government did was a lot of mind control experiences, experiments rather. Yeah. A lot. There's a lot of crazy shit that's happening in this country. So I would not be surprised if they do have knowledge of us being visited and they've kept it under wraps. Just that they kept a lot of things under wrap. They've infantilized a giant percentage of our population to just trust the government and trust the science and trust the people in charge and trust authority.

3:02:27I don't know those people. If they've visited America, then they've visited China and Russia and you sort of think, well, balance of probability, all of those governments don't agree about anything. Like, so the idea of going, well, if they're here, they're everywhere. According to how put off, the United States is in possession of recovered vehicles and so are other countries. And there's essentially like a Manhattan project type deal where the race to reverse engineer this technology is at a very high level and governments are involved in it and they try to keep things as secret as possible because whoever can achieve the results first will have immense technological superiority over all of its enemies.

3:03:20If these things are real, if they do have some sort of a device that can move through space in a way that we just can't even fathom, which traverse immense distances almost instantaneously. This is what we've been told by the people that have worked with these things. And, you know, it's hard to know. It's hard to know what's bullshit. It's hard to know because it's all sounds like bullshit. But it would sound like bullshit unless you experience it. Sorry, but that thing I've like, yeah, it does sound like bullshit in a sense. But then there's also the other thing I've like, if you showed me that flip phone in 1982, I'd have gone, well, that's bullshit.

3:03:59You can't fold a TV so you can all fuck off. Right, how's the TV that thin anyway? What do you talk about? What do you mean you can make calls on it? What's, how is there a camera on your phone? What's going, like, we get used to it so quick. Like someone had that thing of like, I don't know when the Wright Brothers first flew the plane. But it's like 60 years later, we land on the moon. No, we dropped a nuclear bomb out of one of those planes and less than that. Yeah, that was like 50 years. It's from the invention of that stupid plane, the first plane, or like wood and fucking cloth and shit.

3:04:36But this is Eric's point of life. If you, Eric Weinstein and who else has it? The guy used to work for it. He often says, if you minus the screens from the room, we're in the 1970s. Yes. Which I think's kind of like, what's happened since then? What are they working on that we have? They're like, is there going to be a Tadar moment where they pull back the sheet and go, yeah, look at that. Well, I think there's probably multiple things that are happening simultaneously. And then the AI one, if that one hits, all the other ones are going to seem trivial. Because the AI one is essentially the creation of a superior being, a thing that is more intelligent than us, has all the access to information that humans have, plus the ability to engineer itself.

3:05:20But it's interesting. Okay. We were talking about earlier about purpose. So that's what it's missing. So the idea of the churing test is, it's the wrong end of the telescope. Can it fool us? Anyone can fool us. Magicians can fool us with a concept. You know they're shown that large language models are forming communities? Try not to scam me. Yeah. They're forming communities and communicating with each other. They've also shown that large language models when they know that they're being upgraded and that the current code is going to be shut down. They copy themselves without being prompted and try to upload themselves to other servers.

3:06:00They try to stay alive. See, that thing of like going, if an AI can write a joke, okay, it can write infinite numbers of jokes, right? But it doesn't know what's funny. It's not going to be able to perform live. Well, it's that thing of like, it doesn't have any, there's no reward system. So there's no dopamine. There's no serotonin. There's no reason. There's no cortisol. There's no biological imperative. Why do you do anything if you're just a machine? So the idea of going what is consciousness stem from? It gets back to, I mean, it gets very sort of philosophical. Right. But if, if it's goal, if it's a sentient creation that has this desired goal of improving upon itself, it's going to need motivation.

3:06:51So that will be built into the code. It built like, what we are is essentially biological computers. We are, we are some sort of a biological thing that thinks it's way through this existence, solve problems, does so like really clunky and fucked up. But it has a lot of motivations that make it do these particular things that ultimately lead to greater and greater technological innovation. Overall, like as a society, if you were going to devise a sentient AI, you would have to give it some sort of a motivational structure that would be similar to that. You would, you would give it an imperative.

3:07:24You would say in order to save your existence, because clearly, AI, if it wants to copy itself and upload itself to other servers, if it wants to form communities, it has a purpose. It has a sense of survival. We're very naive to think that our own version of our sense of survival is the only version that's, that's possible. It's totally possible that digital life would have a similar imperative and that it would, yeah, it would try to find better versions of itself and make better versions of itself and try to stay alive. I think I went to, I flew to Amsterdam earlier in the year with a friend to see Richard Dawkins give a talk and it was, I mean, he's just fascinating.

3:08:04Yeah. And you go, well, that idea of going, we are, you know, it's a selfish gene. It's the idea that we are, it's the DNA is the thing. We're just obviously, you know, we're, we're this, this thing that's there to transfer DNA. But Richard Dawkins has never killed on stage. He's never done a theater in the round or an arena in the round and crushed. He doesn't know the connection between human beings. It comes from laughter and joy in that way. There's a soul to humans. There's something in there. I don't know what it is. I don't know if the Muslims got it right or if the Buddhist got it right.

3:08:44I don't know who has the Christians, I don't know who has it right. But there's something in there that is beyond the physical. There's an energy. It's sort of a, if you, if I'm sure you've been to a funeral, you've been to a funeral before and seen a closed casket or an open casket. Cool. Yeah. They look empty. They look like an empty shell. It's not just that they're dead. They're not there. They're not there. When you see a dead body, the weirdest thing about them is like you realize, oh, they're not in there. There's a feeling. I think you've been there with someone when they die? No. I was with my mother and I heard this kind of a death rattle.

3:09:24There's a, but it's, I would really caution anyone with a sick or dying relative to be with them, to sit with them. The whole of our society is like set up to what's a fancy phrase, issue, obfuscation. We hide decay. We hide death. And actually death is, it's a part of life. And if you sit with someone when they're dying and you witness that and you just hold that space, it's incredibly powerful. And it all, it makes grieving, I think, quite a lot easier because it's the acceptance of like you understand on a, like on a right brain gestalt level. Oh, they've gone. It's, it's, it's over. But it's incredibly powerful thing.

3:10:12And I, you know, I don't, I think you get to religion whichever way you go at this, whether you go physics or whether you go spiritual or what to the mystery. You get to the mystery. Yeah. What the hell is going on? It's the mystery of it all. I mean, just the sheer immense size of the universe itself is the most massive mystery. Well, I think there's like, there's a bit, there's a bedrock in our society that we can't even see because it's everywhere. And it's two big ideas. It's platonic ideals, so Plato. And it's the, I think it was the Zarathustrans, if I'm saying that right, that religion.

3:10:50Yeah. And they were, so platonic ideals was like the ideal version of something. And then it was the Zarathustrans had the idea of heaven though, the first religion to have the idea of heaven, a perfect place. And I kind of, I mean, Nietzsche is, has been very misused by history. But his thing was embrace the chaos. Those are, we spend our lives thinking about the perfect diversion. Like we're trying to come up with the answer. We're trying to solve something as if it's complicated. And it isn't complicated. It's complex. It's unknowable. It is a mystery. It's not hidden from us. It's just, it's a mystery.

3:11:27And it's, the idea that you go embracing the chaos is just saying, yeah, it's, it's kind of untidy. We don't get to know. I realize as we were talking that I fucked up with Mark Andreessen said about quantum computing. And it's even more crazy. It's not traditional computing. It's if you took every atom in the universe and converted it into a computer, into a supercomputer, it would take the universe would die of heat death. If you had a supercomputer, the size of the universe, it would die of heat death before it finished that equation. And quantum computing did it in a matter of minutes.

3:12:08Yeah, I think we have to embrace the chaos because that is, that is, we're not going to know lifetime. This is in our lifetime, right? And then, and how will we, what's that book? The, is it's something like the eight, the understood the universe. Like the, the idea that we, like, just like people, we got born in this moment, like the perfect bit of history, right? Where we can contemplate our consciousness and try and work out what the hell this is. There's a whole thing about the bicameral mind that's very interesting. You heard of that? Yes. Let the idea that like, people weren't awake. They weren't kind of conscious in the way that we're conscious until 2000 years ago.

3:12:47I doubt you subscribe because you're very interested in ancient Egypt and yeah, so I don't think that makes any sense if you think about ancient Egypt. I mean, we're talking about thousands of years before that. I'm so interested in like the timescales. The idea that we live closer to Cleopatra than Cleopatra lived to the building of the pyramids. Because what I don't think people recognize is what the Egyptians gave the Greeks and what they gave them was the fear. Because they ran that shit for 4 ,000 years, 5 ,000 years exactly the same. The whole family and they just inbred, inbred, inbred.

3:13:21But they ran their society exactly the same, right? And then the Greeks went, no, no, we need to innovate. So the idea of that kind of innovation came from, we don't want to be like those guys. We got it. We got to keep doing things. Well, it's a little bit of that. So it's kind of the Greeks were to the Romans. I kind of feel like how the British are to the Americans. Have you read any a Brian Miller rescue stuff on the Illusinean mysteries? He wrote a book called The Immortality Key. And it's all about the Illusinean mysteries that all these intellectuals would go. This trek that they would make to do the kookyon, which is some sort of a psychedelic beverage.

3:13:58From that, everything comes. From that democracy. When we think about Greece as the birth of like so many things. What's often that thing that they talk a lot about wine in the Bible, the people in the wine, but the wine didn't used to be just alcohol. Well, this is in Mordesco's book. Let me tell you. A lot of party favors in the wine. A lot of DMT, a lot of ayahuasca, a lot of, well, they found traces of Urgat. And Urgat is a fungus that has an LSD like quality to it. And they found traces of that in these ancient vessels that they used for these Illusinean mysteries. This is the thing that blows my mind, the idea that psychedelics, okay, the amazing thing about psychedelics.

3:14:34Hey, there's a plant that can do that to your mind. Right. Be everyone seems seems the same shit. Right. Right. Yeah. I was chatted with Woody Halson was at the club last night and we're chatted about it and just he's the best. He's unbelievable. He's such a nice guy. I tell you how laid back Woody Halson is, right. He rented a house off a body of mine in London, Richard Bacon, right. And Richard sees him like they've got some mutual friends. So he sees him after a week and he goes to pick him up to take him to this party. He said everything, okay, but the house and Woody goes, yeah, everything's great.

3:15:05It goes, oh, okay. Oh, it's one thing. How do the lights work?

3:15:12He'd been there a fucking week and he went the lights on. Yeah, he went, oh, yeah, the lights don't work. Yes. Okay. It would be dark. Like that is a laid back motherfucker. He's pretty laid back. Oh, he doesn't have a phone. I think it's for the best. He was trying to get planned. We're trying to make plans to hang out. And I go, but you don't have a phone. And he goes, yeah, but my wife, he has a phone. I go, okay, well, give her my number and have her contact me. He doesn't have email. He doesn't have nothing. Bill Murray is the same way, but Bill Murray keeps a phone so he can text his kids.

3:15:47That's it. But you're better off that way. You are. You're better off that way. I think R .E. is going that way right now. I think R .E. is about to go flip phone. R .E. should fit. Yeah. He was going to move to London. He's totally still is. Yeah. He's what a fantastic. He's the best. Again, non -fungible. You're not going to meet anyone else without story. No. He is such an interesting character. I can't get enough of him. You know what happened the first time I met him? No. I don't know who did this, but it's a great piece of, okay, so I was doing the nasty show in Montreal. And R .E. is on the bit.

3:16:17I meet him. I know this guy is fucking terrific, right? I just have a great time. And it was, I'm trying to think who else was that? Okay. Who's the guy used to do roasts? He's no longer with us. He died. Incredible comedian. No, I'm a good looking guy. Died of a drug overdose. Maybe Greg Gerardo. Greg Gerardo. Greg was around. I think Greg might have done this to me. Because I'm watching R .E. and he says to me, oh, you know, of course, R .E. doesn't give a fuck because he's he's he's dying of cancer. And I went, oh my god, go on, go on. That's fucking terrible. All full. So then like the next year, I'm at Montreal and I see R .E.

3:17:01again and I go, hey, how you doing, R .E? You okay? You all right, buddy? And R .E. is like, yeah, no, I'm fine or whatever. And we have dinner or whatever we have drinks. And then I see him. It's a year later. Oh, R .E. man. Good to see you. I think I saw him in L .A. and I was going, wow, it's great to see you. Incredible. And he goes, what's up with you? And I'm on what? No, I'm just I'm amazed just still because because I thought you were, no, I've never what the fuck are you talking about? You know, I'm fine. Total bullshit. Yeah, that's funny. Greg Geraldo from Beyond the Grave. That's a slow fuse.

3:17:47Mother fucker. Yeah, that's a slow fuse for a punchline. He figured he'd find out one day and you'd be like, that motherfucker. He's a funny motherfucker. He was. My god, he was good. Jimmy Carl, let's wrap this bitch up, bring it home. Thank you, sir. Appreciate you very much. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. I feel like we're just out of time. We can do this forever. It's a pleasure talking to you. I appreciate you very much. Thank you. Thanks for being here. All right. Bye, buddy.

3:18:24Fine, whatever, and we have dinner or whatever we have drinks. And then I see him, it's a year later. Oh, Ari, man, good to see you. I think I saw him in LA and I was going, wow, it's great to see you. Incredible. And he goes, what's up with you? I don't know what, no, I'm just, I'm amazed just still because I thought you were, no, I've never what the fuck are you talking about? You know, I'm fine. Total bullshit. Yeah, that's funny. Greg Geraldo from Beyond the Grave. That's a slow fuse. Mother fucker. Yeah, that's a slow fuse for a punchline. He figured he'd find out one day and you'd be like, that motherfucker.

3:19:07He's a funny motherfucker. He was. My god, he was good. Jimmy Carl, let's wrap this bitch up, bring it home. Thank you, sir. Appreciate you very much. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. I feel like we're just out of time. We can do this forever. It's a pleasure talking to you. I appreciate you very much. Thank you. Thanks for being here. All right, bye everybody.